Well hello ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto, Savage.com.
And today I've got special guest David Greenwalt on the podcast
and we dive deep into the wonderful world of dieting.
We talk about what has led to the current obesity epidemic
that we have found ourselves in what is the primary driver for
that if it's the hyper palatable nature of ultra-processed foods
over consumption? In general, we talk about body
image and this healthy at any size phenomenon and kind of what
our thoughts are towards that. And how to To best resolve.
Any of the adverse responses that come from that mentality.
And we talked about honestly, just how to make things
sustainable and how to find what is right, for the individual as
it pertains to their health Journey.
So thoroughly enjoy the conversation.
David has been in this space for a long time not in the keto
space specifically but in the health and nutrition space he's
worked with tons of clients. He's seen.
What has worked? What has not teasing the trends
come and go. So I was really Keen to just
Dive In. Learn from his perspective.
I've got no doubt that you will take something from this.
So without further delay, sit back relax and do a podcast with
David Greenwalt. And we are live.
David Greenwalt, how are you sir?
I'm doing. Well, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, man. I'm excited to chat with you.
So, we were talking a little bit before I hit the record button
and you come from a space in which you are helping people
lose weight and as fight against this obesity epidemic that we
have now find ourselves in and you're correct me if I'm wrong
here. But you're not in the the keto
space per se, but you are in the health and nutrition space.
Ace and with that, you have a focus towards the sustainability
aspect of nutrition which I think is a very relevant topic.
I feel like, regardless of what batch following is going to be
sustainable for you. So I definitely want to dive
into that. But honestly man, before we even
go there, like what made you passionate about diving down
this, in the first method? You have a massive weight loss.
Journey yourself. What was your origin story so to
speak? You know, it's it's I've been
interested in Fitness for whatever reason since I was a
kid when I was in grade school they had something called,
aren't they still have it even but they was the president's
Physical Fitness Award and you know, I'm in fifth sixth,
seventh grade and I wanted that award, you know, you had to
broad jump, a certain distance, throw a baseball certain
distance run short distance for time various things and I really
wanted that. I mean I'm 10 11 12 years old?
Why did I want that? I don't know.
I really don't. It's just something in my DNA
with a I found an interest in it.
It was natural for Or me too. I don't have the interest was
natural for me to be good at everything that certainly wasn't
the case but to have the interest, was there over time in
my career I had started a supplement company.
I don't sell any supplements now.
I sold that company but I started to supplement company
when I was in Illinois, state trooper and I started it just so
that I might I started a tiny little room in my home just so I
might make enough money to pay for my own protein powder and I
ended up that was in the early. 90s.
And I end up growing that company for about five or six
years to about 7 million revenue and 45 employees.
And I always say that because in growing that company to a decent
size, I ended up with over 100,000 customers and may seem
kind of odd because I've been doing this a long time.
I mean, I first started coaching people in 1987 and I've been
online since 1999 with it. So the internet was just coming
in and this amazing thing called email was here and you could
have two way communication, which we Just take for granted
now, but it was really something to think about back.
Then, I embraced it early on, I saw the utility of it and I had
a lot of people asking me questions, you know.
Hey Dave, how can I lose 30 pounds to keep it off?
Hey, can I how can I lose 50 pounds?
And I had done bodybuilding in powerlifting myself competed in,
in both the state level. And I just saw that, I was doing
them a huge disservice and trying to answer an email.
You know, I called back of a napkin bumper sticker answers on
how they can, you know, They were wanting to do.
So, in the late 90s, I wrote a book.
And then created, I would say, probably one of the first online
coaching programs because, you know, on the internet, I created
it with dial up. There was no fast internet
getting disconnected, every 10 minutes people in the house,
couldn't be on the phone. At the time you were using the
internet to code, your code, your website, but I went, I did
this. When the supplement company was
at its peak. So I didn't start this company
because the supplement company was going down, it was at its
peak and I just had this you know again I don't know why but
I just had this incredible passion for wanting to help
people get to a healthier better place and I just was incredibly.
I was so passionate about it. I sold the supplement company
and I've been since 1999 doing what I do online.
I love it, man. Total tangent here.
Possibly told tangent but what was it like, Sunday, supplement
can be like, do you miss that? Or was it becoming too much of a
headache with all the overhead and the employees?
They just wanted to break free of it and kind of live a simpler
life. Like what was that like?
Well I will say this that I was super grateful to have that
happen. I never in my wildest dreams, I
seriously I only wanted to be able to make enough money to pay
for my own supplements, my own protein powder or whatever and I
never in my wildest dreams I was a state trooper through the
first five years of that supplement companies life.
So I was a State Trooper. And then I would work another
30, 40 hours a week. You know, building this
mail-order dietary supplement company, where I place a little
ads in the back of the body, building magazines, you know,
Flex Ironman, muscle mag, and so forth, and even muscle, and
fitness, eventually ran to a couple of display ads.
Full-page color display ads, in muscle & Fitness and flex and
whatnot. But anyway, start with tiny
little classified ads and an 800 number.
They have to leave a message because I was a trooper so they
didn't know what I did for a living.
You know what how I really made my living.
But, Anyway, in building to that I you know tremendous just
gratitude didn't have anybody in my life that had was in
business, really wasn't, you know I grew up very blue-collar
and great family but no business Acumen really around me so I you
know, I love that but I just could see that trying to do both
and have put all of my energy into both and having it split
like it was between the supplement Company and health
coaching weight management focused.
Wasn't going to work. And so as I did, when I cut the
cord with a state police, with no safety, net and just went all
in hard on the supplement company because it was doing
quite well. Then I did.
Same thing on the supplement company, except it was less of a
cutting the cord. It was selling the company.
But when I created this the company that I've been running
now since 1999, I will say that I did create it, so that I would
need minimal employees. So there was a There was a
factor there but it was just a different time of my life and I
had a different mindset. No, totally get that minutes.
It's funny, you know, I'm in business, you're in business.
There's always businesses out there and in the business world
like a lot of people just push this motive of, you know,
growing growing getting bigger and bigger, having more
employees, more space, more overhand.
And at some point you find yourself, you know, wondering
what is this really bringing me happiness and fulfillment?
And oftentimes, the answer is not simply biggering for the
sake of biggering, so it's pretty awesome that you had that
foresight or you know early on Yeah, it's again, I, I don't
know, I just I feel I'm just very fortunate that that I'm
able to do what I do and I still and, you know, I was in kind of
setting up some of these, you know, the podcast interviews
that I've been doing as said, I'm probably as passionate as I
was in 1999. That's not true.
I'm more passionate now than I was in 1999.
I know more, I've got a better background, more compassionate
toward the people that need the help, and just feel like I'm so
much better prepared and Anyway, so I'm fired up.
Awesome in. Well, you've been coaching now
since 99. Like I said, there's been a lot
of things come and go during that time, lots of dietary
Hypes, lots of, you know, get, you know, get lean quick fixes.
You've been in space longer to just kind of be, I don't know.
That's probably a bad taste in your mouth towards all that
anything quick, anything that's just overly hyped.
Absolutely. It's I'm like the antithesis of
that. Now, I'm not, I'm not the
antithesis of make it doable, make it palatable.
Make it step, by step incremental, I'm all about that,
but I'm very much against reductionism.
I'm very much against. It's one thing.
I'm very much against if you just do this, if the word just
is in there, it's missing things.
Yeah. So yeah, I'm I'm those things
don't work, we've got plenty of evidence that, you know, obesity
Being at 43%. Now in the United States it was
15% 1970 and supposed to be 50 percent by 2030.
So we're going the wrong direction.
Those simple little allegedly quick fixes don't work, they're
not comprehensive enough. They don't take all the things
into consideration that need to be taken into consideration in
our obesity genic environment. And so I'm about educating about
what those factors are and then what's really going to take and
how we can really do it. Yeah, 100%.
Imagine that with the hype that has come from Quito as a dietary
intervention. That's probably I would, imagine
that would be an annoyance or frustration to you because there
is certainly a lot of misinformation and Miss
marketing around keto specifically for losing weight
in a very quick manner. So that probably just
contributes to this overall delusion of, you know, something
done in short order. Yeah.
But you know here's here's where I'm at on that.
I'm not against keto, I'm not, I've done kedo.
I did keto for a couple of years in the late 90s.
Hmm. And and I really want to learn
it. I you know I did it at the time
when I know you'll be familiar your listeners.
Probably to but back when you know, why on McDonald was about
to write his book and then he did write his book and so and
then you know, Marlo deepest deepest.
Ali and, and Dan Duchesne, and so on and so on.
And so, I did it. I've continued to follow the
research. I'm not against it and I'm we
are my particular nutrition. Philosophy is evidence-based,
flexible enough to adapt. And to allow for, you know, in
basically intelligent non-harmful nutrition approaches
to I mean and where you know where I'm at with it is if I
could have anything, you know, I'd have a you know, a certain,
you know nutrition baseball blah blah, and I've seen in continued
to follow the evidence on keto that actually Aikido does not
annoy me. If the thing that would annoy me
would be actual lies about keto truth about Quito is just fine.
And what I find, you know, I say there's going to be a lot of
different ways. Is that are going to work.
There are going to be a number of different nutrition
strategies that we're going to need to be available for each
person because although we are all human and we all have a
heart generally located in the center of our chest a little bit
left, we're all just different enough where there may be some
different nutrition Styles. What I will say is that in
there's a lot of nuance that is going to be missing.
When I say this is I get clients that come to me and they are
doing keto and they want to keep doing Quito.
Good with it, where I'm going to push them is to make sure I
don't have to push them to low sugar because they're already
doing that if they're doing keto properly or at least, you know,
they're sick of Go versions and all that.
But if you're just doing straight standard keto, the
sugar is going to be low added sugar.
That is but I want them eating real food.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think you and I can 1000% agree on that.
I mean, just simply eating real food is key.
And to be honest with you, all of the over sensitization senses
over sensation. Eliza that's tough word.
Around Quito is super frustrating to me, too.
I feel like that kind of just, I don't know, it dilutes the
quality of what it could be and what it should be.
So you and I have the same frustrations in that regard.
I think if people just simply returned to eating a wholesome,
you know, single ingredient, real food diet, that would
probably be a classic 80/20 analysis and solve most of the
problems out there. Yeah, it's there's no doubt
about it. That we've got, you know,
internal and external BC. Genic fact.
A tremendous an obesogenic, just referring to all the factors
that are promoting of obesity related behaviors and typically,
that's going to, you know, obviously, it can be involving
less movement and so forth. But primarily it's going to be
those factors that drive behaviors for the
overconsumption of process, especially, alter processed
food. Cells are any, any, and all will
be subjective, factors contribute to that, including
the addictive nature of altar. Processed foods itself, The
Addictive nature of altar processed food itself is in and
of itself, it will be suggested Factor outside of any of the
external other factors, you know, related to availability
the 24/7 aspect of, of availability, the number of fast
food restaurants and convenience, smarts marketing,
advertising subsidies social, you know, behaviors that are
have become kind of standard in the norm.
And so on and so on and so on. So so yeah, you and I both have
a background in competitive bodybuilding and at least when
I've done. Most of my competing, the
reigning dietary champ. So to speak, has always been the
flexible dieting, you know, If It Fits your Macros, and there's
a lot of components of that, that I can totally get behind.
What's your take on flexible dieting as a whole Well, there's
this. I mean, I haven't followed it
incredibly closely. I get the general premise, but,
and you can correct me if I'm if I'm wrong on this with regard to
flexible dieting for one, there is flexibility within the
nutrition protocol but is the general premise isn't the
general premise just you know feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong. Is it the general premise that
we are looking to make sure that the body becomes or becomes more
metabolically flexible with regard to?
The ebb and flow of carbohydrate and so on and send fats and so
forth. I don't know that flexible
dining. I think flexible dieting is more
so just being able to eat a mixed diet, as long as it falls
within your macronutrient targets and that flexibility is
supposed to increase the likelihood of sustainability.
Now, there is another diet a metabolic flexibility, you know,
coin diet, that is just all about optimizing the body's
ability to transition from metabolizing fat and
carbohydrates but that's not Not typically in the same realm as
the flexible dieting, flexible Dynamic sphere.
So, you know, with regard to that and in just so I have
Clarity again. I suspect that the, those
promoting flexible dieting, which is not necessarily, you
know, that, unlike the model that that we typically have in
house, ours is going to be nuanced as well as they all are,
but flexible dieting, however, is there's, it's not just If It
Fits your Macros the old, If It Fits.
Your Macros. Is that correct?
It's not that and that's predominately what it is.
I would. So, you know, and my only
frustration with that is that it's just an a bit of an
oversimplification. Education.
Like, typically there's not as much Focus dedicated towards the
type and quality of the foods. Certainly, I mean, it gets a bad
rap, everybody just eating Pop-Tarts, as long as it fits
within the macros, and that's certainly an extreme version of
that. You know, most people that have
half a brain would argue that you want to consume Quality
Foods. But generally speaking, the the
philosophy of flexible dieting. If It Fits, your Macros, doesn't
place a tremendous emphasis on the nutrient quality in the
sourcing. As much as I would like to see
that it does. So, you know, thanks for
clearing that up. I hadn't looked at it in a
little bit, very familiar with. If It Fits your Macros, you
know, again, generally familiar with what, what's, what flexible
dieting is. And, and with your Clarity, it
totally, totally have it again. But what I would say is, That
I'm Because Of The Addictive nature of ultra-processed foods
and all of the detrimental effects, you know, cognitively,
physically, cardiovascular disease, autoimmune disease,
non-alcoholic fatty fatty liver disease, diabetes on, and on,
and on Mental Health, cognition, dementia anxiety, that all,
relate to alter processed food. I've been Then against If It
Fits your Macros for well, since I saw it.
Yeah. Because what people do is very
natural in this regard and they don't even if it's promoted as
generally. Yeah, we all know, you ought to
eat some or mostly real food. People still take more Liberty
with it than was is, or was anticipated.
And like you said, there's not enough focus on the real food
aspect, you know, in the United States are Research is saying
that were consuming about 60% ultra-processed food, but that's
I think they're way way under estimating.
I would say that the average person the United States is
probably consuming 90% ultra-processed food, maybe 10%,
real food and that makes a difference.
A you know, a nutria Centric approach where we're just
carrot, we just care about the nutrients.
Make sure the macros fall in place makes you really got her
vitamins minerals. You know, fiber water.
Protein carbs fats, make sure we've got all those in a semi,
you know. Right.
Ratio and amounts as long as we've got that and as long as
we're controlling for calories, all is good.
And I'm very much a hard no on that.
As far as it all being good, I'm not hard knowing anybody, doing
whatever they want to do Live and Let Live do your thing.
But if you're not achieving and moving toward progressing toward
the goal, you have then it's definitely worth considering
that and if it If It Fits your Macros or If we want to just say
a flexible dieting without considerable attention, put on
the quality of food, we're really missing a huge huge
Factor here. If you're achieving your goals,
I'm still going to say. Even if Robert you could stand
on stage at 45 percent body fat, eating nothing but Pop-Tarts and
whatever, I would still say there's going to be a price to
pay. Yeah.
If not in the near future in in, in some some part of your future
coming up if that's what someone was living on.
Oh, no, I'm a hard. No on.
If It Fits your Macros, as long as there's still a high intake
of ultra-processed food. Yeah, I can agree with that for
sure. I feel like a lot of the
quote-unquote bragging rights people have around flexible
dieting. If It Fits, your Macros, is,
they're able to get incredibly lean while eating a lot of these
ultra-processed foods. Like it's kind of cool to take a
picture of your, you know, shredded abs, while also eating
ice cream from Ben & Jerry's and post it on Instagram, but my
whole philosophy. Sofia is that that's more.
So a matter of addressing nutrition around, what can you
get away with versus? What can you optimize for?
And I tend to fall into the camp of you might as well optimized
for everything you're doing because you only have one body.
So if you're trying to get really lean and you can do so
eating ice cream, that's not really anything to brag about
per se because you're leaving a lot of potential and table.
Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is too is You
know, doing this, as long as I have my average clients 40 plus
years of age. I work with clients that are,
you know, 17 years to 85 years of age.
My average client bill is probably 40 plus years of age
and they have battled for 5 10, 15 years to win.
This, what I mean by win, this is get to their goal weight and
stay there and I don't mean stay there on the nose but stay there
within 10 pounds or so. So not it's average people.
It's every people of from every day from every Walk of Life.
But Everyday People. Who are not able to have the ice
cream into that about it. Uh, but who have been taught and
shown and who through things like you're saying, flexible
dieting or whatever, If It Fits your Macros, whatever, they are
taught, you know? It's all things in moderation.
All things in moderation. No, we're not promoting, you
know garbage, you know a you know raccoon going through a
garbage can diet. That's not we're promoting
they'll say but have some, you know, just stop, you know.
I'll just have one ice cream cone and stop just have two
cookies and stop just do, the, whatever and stop and if they're
able to do that and they're able to, you know, maintain a high
percentage of real food low, ultra-processed food, and, and
the factors that we can measure related to health and fitness,
you know, from biomarkers to, you know, physical health
related, fitness markers, like cardiorespiratory endurance,
muscular strength, the, you know, No flexibility, body fat
body composition, I should say and those things and plus the
biomarkers if they can do that great.
But a lot of people like you said, we can see and that's the
thing about, you know, if you're doing bodybuilding or if you're
doing, just something to try to get six pack abs, you can see
whether that's working or not and you can get to and, and
where people can see that. You have gotten very lean but
that's That's not who I'm working with.
I'm working with people who have struggled and are struggling and
they're going to need to consider.
These obese agentic factors they're going to need to
consider the addictive nature of ultra-processed food.
They can't. Han, they can't manage
ultra-processed food in the same way as real food.
Some people are going to have to address this whole moderation in
all things. My premise is moderation in all
things, including moderation. Yeah, sometimes sometimes not
across the board, and I'm not in any way, shape, or form, someone
who pitches don't eat anything that tastes good and never ever,
ever, ever eat anything that's Ultra process.
It's not what I'm about. But sometimes 0 was better than
one. One.
Yeah, yeah. And so this whole flexible idea,
they don't talk about that. It's because people don't like
to hear that. They don't want to hear that,
but it can be true. And so one of the things that
we're going to focus on is we're going to meet our clients where
they are and we're going to help them.
Look at these things and see what things they may have a true
problem with no different than other substances of abuse.
And if that is the case will want to address that and help
them create what I do. R2, as a personal abstinence
plan, it doesn't mean that again that item is gone forever.
We try not to use that word forever.
We try to, you know, bring it in, you know, it's may be gone
for now or maybe it's only between these hours or maybe
they can't be in the house. You could have it at a
restaurant, but it can't be in the house.
Maybe it can't be in the at work but it can be at the house.
It's certain things need to be looked at so that you a lot of
people are going to need a version of a personal absent as
and a lot of people have no concept that these
ultra-processed foods that let's just say the flexible diet crew,
or whoever is saying just have some to moderation, a little bit
doesn't hurt anybody. Anybody that says that you can't
have a Diet Pepsi or you can't have Krispy, Kreme donut, or
whatever is a zealot and is insane.
No, I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying, we need to look at
and if it's something that isn't working for you, then we need to
look at it. You don't have to get rid of it.
You don't have to He has to do anything.
Anybody I'm working with is an adult.
They maintain agency over what they're going to do, but I can
help guide them into seeing what's really going on.
Understanding that addiction processed food, addiction not
real food, addiction processed food addiction, really does
exist. And if so it's going to need to
be managed or there won't be a win.
Yeah, 100% agreement. I feel like the large percentage
of my clientele with an Aikido space have come to that spot in
their life in which they just perform better from an
Elimination style protocol as opposed to a moderation style
and I don't want to be an absolutist either.
You know, like if these people just have to have their, their
wine and their fruit or their brand on Cajuns, you know, by
all means go for more power to him, but a lot of these people
simply find that they perform better and it's more
sustainable, if they just remove that from the equation entirely.
And if they do, so in a healthy manner, in which they don't feel
like they're sacrificing, they don't feel like they're being
deprived or depleted and then body's responding favorably
their mind responding favorably. It's just a win across the
board. It's just there's definitely a
certain percent of the population that does better with
that moderation approach. And there's absolutely a
percentage that does really, really well with that
elimination stop approach. And I feel like a lot of people
that are in the moderation category assume that everyone
should moderate which is just not the case.
Absolutely agree. When it comes to obesity as you
know, and the crazy place we found ourselves in with this day
and age. I mean I think I don't forget
the statistic but it's like Like more than 50% of the population
is overweight, and obese and more than 50 percent of
marriages in the divorce or something crazy.
Astronomic like that to startling statistics, when it
comes to obesity, do you think there is a single Paramount, you
know, factor a careless driving? That is it just simply a myriad
of all things combined. It is multifaceted.
Of course if I was going to narrow it down to one thing I
would say and it ends up not course not being one thing.
But I would say all things That drive the proliferation of
ultra-processed food, displacing real food.
Okay, all things. So it's obesogenic factors,
external and internal that drive that proliferation of
ultra-processed food displacing real food.
And That's that's what I would land on.
If I was going to say one thing, which, of course, that isn't one
thing. But that's where I'm going to
put the greatest onus because of, of all of the detrimental,
metabolic effects of ultra-processed food,
detrimental, mental cognition, cognitive effects, distorts
thinking makes things. Fuzzy increases anxiety,
depression dementia reduces IQ points.
All of those things. Don't bode well for making good
decisions about the next bite. Yeah.
And do you think that over processed food that hyper
palatable Foods just in general are driving?
Just simple overconsumption that excessive consumption is what's
primarily eating to the Obesity epidemic.
Well we know that they're typically more calorie dense and
easier to consume and less volume.
Hmm generally speaking they're less volume higher calorie less
fiber and they're created in Laboratories typically where the
big food is looking for Bliss point and Beyond sugar, salt and
fat, you'll hear a lot of talk about that too, you know?
It's the perfect combination. The perfect ratio of sugar salt
and fat. It's beyond that.
That's that's reductionist to its, you know, they're over.
3,000 industrial additives for the, get put in our food,
whether it's for preservation, or taste or texture mouthfeel
quality, whatever it may be. And all of those things, also,
factored into the Bliss point and so what drives the
overconsumption of ultra-processed food.
Well, these things are created, you know, by big food to get you
to love them enough. Get the dopamine hit, have your
brain go up. That was awesome.
I'm definitely going back to that.
I want that again. And you know, even in internal
papers, from the fast food industry, they refer to their
best customers, Robert, as heavy users.
Hmm. So what happens in big food is,
you know, they end up creating users rather than consumers as a
consumer. We just make a decision.
We can make a rational decision. I wanted I don't want it.
Once we become a user, that's more substance abuse language.
And once we become a user, the brain is hijacked.
Now, it doesn't mean that we ultimately aren't responsible
for learning what we need to learn.
Figuring out how this is so similar to other addictions and
therefore, you know, you can be handled in a way that is
similar. It gets confusing for people
because you'll have people in dietetics and whatnot.
That will say, can't be addicted to food.
You can't be addicted to food, because it's biologically
necessary, and you can't be addicted to things that are
biologically necessary. Well, we need real food.
That's biologically necessary. We don't need ultra-processed
Foods. So if you separate it and Define
it reasonably, Well, so, people can understand real food versus
ultra-processed food. Then they can begin to separate
and they can begin to see that Ultra processed.
Food is addictive, but real food is not.
And you can, you can, you can begin to navigate, you know that
much more, much more. So so yeah.
With and then, you know, and then I would say not to go down
a different tangent at this time, but Early early on.
I saw that you know and this is just loose and you know, this
isn't, they'll take my don't take me at, you know, verbatim
here or literally, I mean, but, you know, I can teach someone
what they need to know about nutrition for health and fitness
in about an hour. I can teach you what you need to
know about exercise for health and fitness in about an hour.
But if the leanness bus, you know, if you're trying to get
leaner regardless of what you weigh, whether you're 150
pounds, overweight or your Team, you want to be leaner, you want
to lose some weight, you want to be leaner maintain the muscle
and be leaders, all about maintaining a growing, the
muscle and be a leaner if that's you know, that's where I am as
far as a coach. So if that's the case, you've
got to have. All of the elements in place,
you've got to have nutrition, you've got to have exercise but
if that bus goes off in the ditch it goes off in the ditch
because three other things could be missing.
All right. So you with me we've got
nutrition. Let's just say in this Magic
World you've got your nutrition basically, figured out if I ask
you what to eat, you say yet you regurgitate back to me.
What what you know we would agree is, you know, good the
data, whether it's ketogenic or whatever, it's real food low
sugar, dada dada. And as far as exercise plan, I
asked you what are you doing? You've got some kind of
combination of strength and cardio in this purpose.
Y'all like good enough, good. And it supports your goals,
great. If that leanness bus goes off in
the ditch and those behaviors are not consistent.
There are three things. Primarily that I have found that
are causative for that one. The why hasn't been explored
deep enough? Someone came into this and said,
ah, just want to lose 30 pounds, why?
I just want to feel better. Okay, that's not going to be
enough. Now, I'm saying that like as
though it won't be enough for anyone, it's not going to be
enough for 80%. Yeah, there might be 20 percent
they can say. Ah, I just want to be healthier
and they're, why will drive them to do it?
So there could be a why issue? There could be an ultra
processed food addiction issue. And even if we've got everything
else right if there is an addictive issue, if there's a
triggered eating issue and we don't address it, we're not
going to win and then the other is just kind of the emotional
maturity, the emotional Fitness side of things.
That if that's not strong enough, we're not able to manage
this crazy life that we're all living.
If, when something happens we are immediately, we have what I
call a conditioned automated response, we just have just a,
you know, it's almost like a clique words like throwing a
light switch, you know, let's say you have a, you have a
disagreement, an argument with a spouse or boyfriend, girlfriend,
whatever. And for whatever reason, it
really has you feeling insecure and that, oh my gosh,
relationship is going to end, but it's going to be divorced.
I'm going to be homeless. Only him to be living under a
bridge. You can really go catastrophic
because you just had an argument if at the emotional Fitness
level You're not able to put that space where you get to make
a decision between the stimulus and the response because between
the stimulus, whatever the trigger is and the response
there is a space and in that space is where we get to choose
how we're going to respond. And if you don't know how to
create that space and you don't know how to bring the emotional
temperature down, if you don't know how to reduce catastrophic
scale, if you don't have the other elements of emotional
Fitness in place that I mean, talked about Then it's going to
be a struggle, so you can know the nutrition and exercise and
it's important that we cover, you know, what that is, and that
it's evidence-based and makes sense. primarily real food, not
exclusively real food but primarily real food, but if you
don't have those other elements of place, why triggered eating
addiction aspects and emotional Fitness.
Then it's going to be a struggle for most people.
How can I, how can I sit here in this podcast right now, with
this conversation with you and sounds?
So assured, certain whatever you want to call it, that I'm right.
The Obesity epidemic is what it is.
It's 43 percent or 43. 70% overweight right now, 43 percent
obese, 50% obese by 2030 is the projected projection.
And we were 15% obese in 1970. It isn't one thing.
But the things that have supported the overconsumption of
alter processed food, collectively are the single
greatest factors. Do you think that the trajectory
is going to shift from a top-down of application of
pressure? Like, is the government is the
regulatory bodies that be going to do better to educate the
general consumer as to what a Proper diet is what a proper
fitness. Regimen is what a proper.
You know. Emotional relationship with food
is or is that all going to have to come organically from the
ground up? Organically ground up and, you
know, obviously, as with many things, I'm rare to use
absolutes all forever. Never, you know I'm rare.
I do use them, but most times they're going to be wrong.
Same thing for catastrophic awful.
Horrible terrible nightmare. Most times those those
descriptors are wrong but as far as your question which is a
great one, it's going to be bottom up.
And the reason I say that with some confidence is because
there's just too much money from the top-down approach, the
government is best They have done.
I don't, I'm not want, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
Jen, I get it. There could be conspiracies, but
I'm generally not a conspiracy theorist and I generally don't
have this position where big food is evil.
There's a malevolence, it's me, you know.
But I do think they're profit-driven and I think as a
part of that profit they want repeat buyers and as part of
repeat buyers, they're following the quote-unquote rules, the FDA
and other governing bodies have put out there as far as what
they have to do to produce the substances.
It's not food. But the substance is that most
people consume, and I get that, but the reason it has to be
bottom up is because of that. I mean, there's too much money
at the top. I mean, the politicians
lobbyists. You name it.
There's a, there's just too much money for it to really be a big
thing. Now, I'm going to say this, I am
an optimist That Never Say Never right now, and in the near
future we can't wait for that. We're going to have to go bottom
up and we are seeing a difference in what is being put
into packaged foods. And what is being produced,
because of programs like yours bringing on people like me or
wherever the collective micro, you know, efforts of influencers
and people with good followings and so on and so forth, bringing
out a good solid message, people are going, wait a minute.
I don't want. One of the, I don't want, you
know, packaged foods that are loaded with any of the three
thousand industrial additives that are available to be putting
the, I don't want that, I want stuff that fits you know, the
general, you know idea of real food.
Now it it if you don't mind or if you'd like, you know, I'll
share my, my definition what I've adapted as my definition of
Real Food Mo means man, what is it?
Okay, so just for you know, just kind of for clarity and that's
one of the reasons why when I get clients you know who You are
doing if you do. I don't say get off that I don't
because I want them to be eating real food.
If they're on keto, and they find like you said, for all the
reasons that could be valuable, you know, for Tito, I'm like
good also. Let's keep it going so far as
real food goes. It's and again, this is loose.
This isn't perfect doesn't carry.
It doesn't have every single Nuance part in it and you have
to do you have to go deeper with if you really want to get into
it? But just that just so that it's,
you know, someone's going shopping today just so that it's
in their mind. As as something to to consider.
And it's generally this whole or minimally processed edible parts
of plant and animal where if anything has been added to it
it's only things commonly found in kitchens.
Yeah, I love it's holding. That makes total sense, you
know, so yeah, so you know, just I'll do it just one more time if
you don't mind because I don't people listen to it the first
time were like, wait, what, what do you say or?
They're saying, I totally disagree right now.
I don't know, but I see. But the definition is whole or
minimally processed edible parts of plant and animal.
Where if anything has been added, is only things commonly
found in kitchens and it doesn't mean that every single thing
commonly found in the kitchen, is awesome.
In unlimited quantities, like flour or granulated sugar.
Or whatever, you know, that's not the thing.
But we have had those. And I'm not saying again, I am
anything that works in, you know, as far as not necessarily
just for weight loss like you said, people can live on
whatever and get on stage sometimes 56 percent body fat
they can get shredded on garbage, sometimes I get that.
But when we're talking about healthspan, lifespan biomarkers,
you know, things that are going to be good for the brain.
Good for the gut, good for the liver.
Good for the body is all good for metabolic function.
It is going to be Low sugar real food?
Yeah, glow added sugar, real food, low added sugar, real
food. It can be, you know, a variety
of things that can be, you know, like you said, it can be key, do
it can be a number of things, but it's going to be low sugar
real food. So, just because again, flour
and granulated sugar is found in kitchens doesn't mean that.
It's it's totally free to go and doesn't mean that things that
are made with that are awesome in the real food category, but
that's the general definition. And it makes it easier.
If you know, to me when you go into a store, if you flip that
package around flip, that bar around flip that, whatever
around Mr. P, whatever you're doing, it doesn't matter,
whatever to flip it around and read the ingredients.
If the ingredients are not those that are commonly found in
kitchens, you've got an ultra processed food, I mean, most of
the time, it's going to be an ultra, they might be just
process, but it's probably going to be an ultra processed food
and doesn't mean that it has to be a 0, you know, I Why?
I don't look at these things, Robert.
As far as food goes, I don't put bad and good healthy unhealthy
on the food. I don't want their, I don't want
their, we have enough reasons to feel bad, you know, in society,
if we choose 2 or 4 wired that way or just whatever life has
thrown at us, this doesn't need to be one of them, so I try to
remove good and bad healthy unhealthy, I look at it like
this. Now that I'd be least given the
definition of real food. I say, is it real food?
Does it work for you? That's it.
So that's why when someone comes to me and they're doing Quito, I
don't tell him get off that change that you've got to do
this, I'd say, are we going to eat real food?
You don't have to, but if we get them to eating real food and
then we say, does that work for you?
Because I really love, I don't think I've said it, but I really
love Churchill's. Quote, we can talk strategy all
day long. We can talk all of the Nuance
differences of flexible. Keto vegan, you name it, If It
Fits your Macros, the matter, what?
It is, whatever. but, Churchill's.
Quote is no matter how beautiful the strategy we should
occasionally look at the results.
Yeah, and so, I look at those two things.
I try to remove that good bad healthy unhealthy.
Is it real food? Does it work for you?
You know, a real food that may not work for someone just as an
example is CL. Let's take a package product.
Let's say it's peanuts and salt By my definition.
Real food. Whole minimally processed edible
parts of plantain plant or animal.
Where if anything's been added, it's only things commonly found
in kitchens, peanuts and salt. That's real food, then you are.
It's real food. Does it work?
Well, depends what your goal is? What do you mean by work?
Well, let's say the goal is, you know the person is trying to
lose 30 pounds and struggle struggle.
Struggle, always have peanuts in the home, they're serving of
they're serving. Them peanuts is a jar, an entire
jar. We may say that isn't working
for you, it's real food but it's not working for you.
So how can we come at it differently?
Maybe it has to be a zero instead of one.
Maybe there's a way to create you know that personal
abstinence plan for you on that particular item because you do
have a tendency to overeat it every single time you crack the
crack, the lid open. So there's there's you know,
it's a varied in that way but that's why we're looking at it
from. Does it work?
I'm sorry. Is it real food?
And does it work for you? I liked it like that a lot.
I feel like there's like, there's this push against this
natural fallacy around nutrition.
But honestly, one of the main reasons, I like the ketogenic
diet. So well, are honestly the parts
of the paleo diet. Sure there's definitely been a
push for ultra-processed Foods in those dieting, you know,
communities. But for the most part, generally
speaking there is this incentive to just simply consume the foods
that were consumed and readily available.
You know, 500 years ago, thousand years ago before the
dawn of the Industrial Revolution, and all the
processing, that's taken place since then I feel like that's
not a really bad way to look at things.
Like if you go about it through that lens, I mean, if you look
at human existence on a timeline, the amounts of food,
variety that we have now are, I guess not food, variety, just,
you know, substance variety that we have now, right?
It's just astronomically skewed. I mean, none of these foods are
even an option 500 years ago. So to me, it makes pretty common
sense that we would have evolved to perform better on a diet that
is more in line with our evolutionary past and a bunch of
processed food that has just recently made its way into our
existence. Absolutely.
You know, there's there's there's no question that what
we're consuming today doesn't even come close to resembling.
What we ate even 100 years ago let alone three four, five
hundred or a thousand years ago. It's It's well, as you heard me,
say to me all the things that contribute to the
overconsumption of it is is the single greatest factor as to you
know, what's what's impeding our progress in succeeding and
people just are unaware. You know, the thing is like
you're saying the people that are out there, you know, I look
at Social as well and I see the you know some semblance of all
things in moderation and you can pry this diet coke.
I you'll pry this diet coke out of my cold dead fingers, you
know, and that kind Think I'm not against somebody.
Having a Diet Coke is as long as it works for you, you know, and
I'm against living on it. I'm not against having it if it
works for you and your goals and supports, you know what you're
trying to do. And again you're going to you're
going to be your own person there.
But again that because they don't acknowledge that.
Just the sweet alone for some people.
Regardless of caloric intake can be getting Kris Cravings, can
increase drive to pursue calorie-dense.
Whatever you're not for everybody nothing's across the
board but there's just not an acknowledgement that that is the
case that it's possible and it is there's a there's just a
percentage of people higher percentage than a lot of people
are recognizing and acknowledging.
Aging that are going to need to look at what they're eating in a
different way through a different lens.
Where it isn't all things in moderation or safe, maybe.
But for a lot of people, there's going to be some adjustment
necessary to win. This, as I said, once you know
the nutrition exercise You have a stronger why then you probably
imagine we got to address triggered eating in addiction,
got to strengthen emotional Fitness.
So you can be a better life manager, you can create that
space between the stimulus and response, bring the temperature
down on language, improve self talk, you better sleep.
Just be a better better, mm emotional life manager or just a
better life manager. All those things that you know,
are going to be are going to be needed for a larger sect of
people than it is being acknowledged by the, you know,
like the people you're talking about.
Yeah. And I think, I think perspective
gained through trial and error and just, you know, different
experimentation training why nutritionally speaking, all that
bodes well to build someone's emotional, resolve around food
and lifestyle factors. However, I think, you know, kind
of going back to your statement of is it real food and does it
work for you? I think that's a great, you
know, litmus test. But I feel like a lot of people
For are becoming disillusioned as to what is defined as working
for them, especially with this Narrative of healthy at any
size, you know, I'm liable to lose some listeners here.
But like this, this notion that people of all body fats,
weights, sape shapes and sizes are healthy.
That that is not an underlying concern that I think is doing a
disservice to people because it's just there's no longer a
proxy for you know, Health when you have this disillusionment as
to around what is Health in the first place, If you don't mind I
think I've got a I've got a viewpoint on this and I think it
is even though it's a bit of a third rail touchy subject.
I think that will be good. If you're okay with me you know
man you know talkin about my viewpoint on what you just said,
lay it on me. All right, so you know generally
speaking with regard to body positivity, you know, I've been
thinking about this just recently and it's kind of one of
the kind of interesting that your you were talking about that
just a second ago. But if we Consider someone
amazing. Super pop star Liz.
Oh because I've been thinking about this, I've written about
it a bit recently and talked about it a bit recently so it's
kind of top of mind so you know Liz owes you know, an amazing
super pop star and but I think her stats that I found online
again someone can look and see if it's it's off but she's 510
300 ish pounds. If that's the case her body mass
index is 43. Three which butts are in the
class 3 obese category. So class one obesity is a BMI of
30 to 34.9 class 2 is 35. To 39 point, nine class, three
is 40. And up in there is sometimes a
reference to Super obese, which is a BMI of 50 and up.
But if she's 43, then she's a class.
She's class 3 obese. I don't think I just called her
a name. I don't believe I look at it
from. That's a medical definition used
to stratify potential issues but it doesn't mean that there are
issues but it gives medical professionals and health
professionals of kind of a frame of reference.
And the and the research is really, really strong not for
someone, you know, not being perfectly at the healthy BMI of
under 25. That's I'm not going to go
there, but once we hit obesity and not necessarily the exact
slow end of obesity, if you've got other Fitness factors in
place and everybody's different, I get that.
But the hire someone is on the Obesity, Continuum, especially
when they hit that morbid obesity and it with a BMI of 40
and up the increased likelihood of non-communicable diseases,
cardiovascular disease, cancer, autoimmune disease, diabetes,
non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, and so on.
And so on goes up and up and up. 80 life span Goes Down House Fan
goes down. That's just evidence.
And there's a strong body of evidence to support that.
That's the case. Now with regard to say Liz.
Oh just so somebody's got somebody there, picturing their
mind whether as a human being does lizzo deserve love and
respect and as much or you know, as any other human being who is
someone trying to do good? Because that's kind of the
metric for me. Is this a human being was It was
a good person I mean trying to do good in society and in life
and just trying to live their life in a generally good way.
If so then to me it doesn't I don't care what she weighs at
all. I could I could care less
there's zero judgment on that her humanity is not diminished
one iota for her, having a BMI of 43 if she if she's being a
good person and trying to do her thing and for all I know she is,
I don't know that much about her but I have nothing - that.
I know so nothing. He Manatee related all the love
and respect of every other human being, it should be given
without judgment. Is she beautiful?
That's in the eye of the beholder.
I mean, you know, being my age, you know, you think of somebody
like Brad Pitt and Heidi Klum and you go there, you know,
there might be five or ten people on the planet, who don't
find those two people. Beautiful, but what's who's to
say, what's beautiful? I mean, it's really so personal
and so subjective as to what's beautiful.
So, it doesn't make any difference.
Whether Either I find her beautiful or not, I find various
models, you know, that our of this supposed perfect weight
that I don't find beautiful. But so what there's tons of
people listening to this when they see my picture they're
gonna say I don't think you're very beautiful either Dave.
Yeah and I get that. So as far as love and respect in
humanity, That that's an inalienable right to me as long
as she's just a good person, Beauty that's subjective.
So I'm have a problem with any of that so far, I don't have a
problem with any of that, you know, it should be given it
shouldn't, you know, she'd even be in consideration, what I am
is concerned. I'm concerned for her.
I'm concerned for us as a society, and I'm concerned that
so many people because they failed so many times because of
the poor messaging that has been out there.
Moderation in all things, you know, things we've talked about,
they don't have any awareness Of The Addictive nature of this
ultra-processed stuff. They don't, you know, on and on,
they don't have the other factors in place.
I've already discussed. They've given up so I am
concerned for her. If not now in the future because
the body of evidence is strong that she's going to experience
negative things health-wise later on, if not now.
So, and I'm concerned for us collectively because ultimately,
again, the research being strong, someone obese cost the
Healthcare System 3508 dollars more per year than someone not
obese, right? Who pays for that high
percentage of Costs are being filtered through Medicare and
Medicaid private insurance, you know, and so forth.
There's a high percentage that in the end we all pay for and so
I am concerned for her individually and in the Liz owes
that because of their potential Health detriments that could
occur with regard to the Obesity and the factors that are driving
that and I'm concerned for us collectively because it It is
extremely costly in general. And again, not across the board.
There are people who are obese, who are metabolically healthy.
There are people who are obese, don't have a single non
communicable disease. No cancers know anything, they
don't take a drug. They their blood pressures,
good, and I'll just kind of finish this little little
section that I have no idea, you know, how it'll be taken by the
public. But you know, I my I know that's
my heart's in the right place. I don't judge her at all.
I'm just concerned for her. I'm concerned.
For us, collectively and I don't want people to give up because
that's what's happened. A lot of people, a lot of times
in the body positivity, side of things, they will, they will
tell the research and the research is pretty clear, you
know? Like five to Fifteen twenty
percent of people. Keep off the weight, they lose
the rest. Regained, most all or more than
all of the weight that they tried to lose.
I get it. That is the norm.
It's my mission to what I'm doing to to work with people to
avoid the relapse. So obesity, Is a chronic
relapsing Condition, it's a chronic relapsing condition,
you'll see that language over and over.
And over in the research, my goal is to avoid the relapsing
part eliminate, the relapsing. It is going to be chronic
meaning there is going to have to be effort.
There's going to be Consciousness.
We're going to have to remain aware.
No maintenance has maintenance is not as hard as far as
intensity as the action period and it gets better and better
and better with time the more success you have under your belt
easier, this all gets but but you know, I want lizzo to win
and now here's the thing. Do I have any kind of mindset
that lizzo should, you know, from a moral perspective, get to
some healthier way. No, no, no, no Live and Let
Live, it's her life. She should get to choose what's
going on. I'm not looking for any kind of
mandate or anything. Anybody deciding for her that
she should do, whatever, it's her life.
Her body her everything and she should get the, she should get
the choose that but the, oh, the last thing I'll say on this is
this None of us looking at her and when I say her, it's
metaphor now it's any any Liz those, whether male or female,
when we're looking at her, do we know that she is unhealthy or
metabolically unhealthy? I'll ask you Robert, what do you
think? I would say that she's not
healthy, you know, just based off of what I can observe
externally. Okay, that's fair.
And so, I think it's important that I, at least say what?
I think on this because I like, I say I have Given it some
recent thought. I'm going to say, There's only
one factor that we can say for sure related to the health
related, physical fitness, components where it is
definitely not in the healthy zone and that is waist
circumference, okay? So what I look at is is this so
on the are generally five health related, physical fitness,
components. There's more if you're in sports
but generally there's five health related, physical fitness
component. So it lets you can evaluate
these and Get a baseline for whether someone is fit.
Okay. So, cardiorespiratory endurance.
I have no idea what her cardiorespiratory.
I have no idea. Muscular endurance, no clue
muscular strength, which is more absolute strength.
No clue body composition, yes, okay.
That's going to be out of whack and then flexibility.
I have no idea. I've seen really heavy people,
incredibly flexible so I have no idea.
I can't say. All right.
It's only one of those five. Can I say for sure, our is on a
whack. All right, let's go over to some
biomarkers. That are kind of common when
we're looking at maybe trying to evaluate for metabolic syndrome,
you know, metabolic syndrome a collection of biomarkers that
are out of whack and disturbances that if you have
any, if you have three or more of these than you will have a
diagnosis of metabolic syndrome and it is known again, proven
strong body of evidence increased likelihood of
cardiovascular disease and so on and so on.
So And they are. High blood pressure.
So let's go the lizzo and all the lives.
Those just by looking at him. I have no clue.
You've got a high waist circumference.
Okay, in that case we say yes, you've got high triglycerides.
Don't know. You've got what I say?
Triglycerides, waist, circumference HDL.
Blood pressure. What is the fifth one?
I'll think of it in a second but only circumference is the one
you can observe right. Right.
And yes it is. It's Reckless rides rides HDL.
You guys are hitting me think out loud very glycerides.
HDL. Waist.
Circumference blood pressure. L DL.
Cholesterol. The only thing we can say for
sure is waist circumference. Yeah.
I don't know any of those other factors so it isn't so here's
the thing. There are people who are obese
and some even morbidly obese who don't have any of those other
factors who are otherwise on the health related, physical
fitness, components, they're fit.
So I can't say by looking at her whether she's fit and even if I
could, I don't have a thought that she needs to It's up to her
right, but it is easy for us to look at somebody like that and
go. Yeah, look how unhealthy she is.
Well, she's got a big waist circumference, got it and body
composition is high. Got it.
But I don't know about the other thing.
So I can't say only, you know, you need her medical history to
do that. Even if you had the medical
history, it's none of my business.
You know what she does? But I'm just going to say again,
I'm concerned. So, that's kind of how I look at
body positivity, nothing against humanity, inalienable rights
should be maintained. And all the respect in the world
of the person's, just trying to be a good person.
But I am concerned for her concern for us.
Collectively for all the reasons I said, yeah, I think that's
totally fair makes perfect sense.
I mean, I personally do not wish any ill will towards anybody
regardless of their shape or size or color or any of that
stuff. And I would hope that other
people wouldn't either. But I definitely think that
there is harm being done sociologically and Logically by
promoting this idea that there are no negative repercussions
that come with, you know, having those you know factors of being
mobile eobs. I think that is where the harm
is being done. I feel like if people know that
and then they choose to go that way then that's on them.
You know, I can't make people live a certain way.
Everybody's you can like, using Live and Let Live but I feel
like people need to at least be made aware and the message you
need to be more clear as to To the fact that being morbidly
obese is not likely in your best interest from a health
standpoint. Absolutely.
And you know the thing that I guess kind of strikes me as a
good part of the reason why there has been a bit of a
Acceptance in that Community defeatist somewhat in that
Community is because there's the failure rate is so high with the
messaging that's been put out there with the lack of the
things you and I have talked about here with regard to the
true addictive, triggered aspect of ultra-processed food in all
of its negative effects. There has been such a futility
feeling with it that they I'm not, I can't speak for them.
I am not an expert in their Community, but just from what
Seen. There is a I'm almost you know,
I'm going to say About reasonable but a I get it like a
futility. This is why I don't want them to
quit. If here's the thing, I don't
want them to give up if they want to change.
If they want to be smaller healthier, leaner, whatever.
The if they if that's what they want, I don't want them to give
up. They've gotten in the there's a
level of they've gotten to acceptance because The
alternative trying again, trying again has become so futile and
so demoralizing. And so did Jek teen emotionally
and psychologically, it is so negative on the psyche, to try
again with the same eat, less exercise, more calories in,
calories out all things in moderation, and on, and on, and
on, as long as If It Fits, your Macros or whatever.
The thing is, you can go my healthy plate, you can go
whatever you want to say, because there, My healthy plays
in all things in moderation. To?
Yeah, mostly we want you to eat real food, but all things in
moderation, and for some people that's just not, not going to
work in this. Just such an such an obesogenic
environment with marketing advertising subsidies,
availability, 24/7, access and cheap.
You know, it's inexpensive Bliss points.
I mean, we got all these things going on.
I don't blame them, I just don't want them to feel like there
isn't hope because there is just not with like you said, typical
top-down structure that we've had for 50 years.
You talk about, you know, a group or groups that need to
look in the mirror and say, we have failed Society.
It's the top-down organizations that are huge.
That have the massive platform to get the message out.
Who aren't who, you know, kind of as we talked before, it's a
variety of reasons, but part of the reason is going to be
something money-driven. I would think though that even
with that money driven nature, like there's just, gotta be a
Tipping Point in which it implodes like there's just no
way that it can keep going. I mean, I don't know where that
implosion point is. I have no idea, but I mean like
this, there's just got to be an implosion point at some at some
point in the future. Sure because it just can't keep
going. Like it is.
Okay. I'm with you and I really don't
know what it's going to look like, what it's going to be.
I really don't. I don't have that crystal ball.
I bet I'm 100% in agreement with you that it's unsustainable.
So, will it be enough? I've already seen, you probably
have to. I have already seen positive
changes in manufactured packaged Foods as far as what's being put
in it. And that is because you know
food is W. They want repeat buyers.
And we're voting with our pocketbooks and every time we do
it's a strong vote and that vote has incredible power because,
you know, in the capitalist Society we're living where it's,
you know, it's profit-driven. These companies want to continue
to make you prophets and they are listening to the bottom up
now. Is it enough?
No, not right now. Could it ever become enough?
I'm going to say I am more of a positive person.
I'm going to say Never Say Never Ever, if the Hue and cry becomes
large enough, where the politicians who mostly care
about getting re-elected, realize that their re-election
is going to be, at least, you know, partly or wholly, not
wholly. Going to be at least partly
driven by what we as a society, you know, are seeing and feeling
a living with regard to all of this.
Then, you know, then possibly. But it's going to take
everything to win this. But I, you know, my message to
my members or anybody that crosses my path is, you know, we
can't wait for government. We can't wait for the big
business. We can't wait for the biggest
organizations, the the Food and Drug administration's, you know,
so on, and so on. So we can't wait for them.
They're behemoths. They move incredibly slow.
There's too much money up there, right now.
There's not quite enough Hue and cry to really get Changes that
we need from that top down. So we the cool thing is that in
this again, that's why I'm positive and I want to again, I
want to get that message out to that obese person, morbidly
obese. It's given up just as heck with
it. Just accept it.
No, maybe they do love where they are and if they do great,
do your thing. If you don't love where you are,
but you've given up because you don't you feel like it's futile,
you know, don't this can be one, it is no wonder That the society
as a whole and the people that are living obese who don't want
to be are there? It's no wonder it's a it's
almost a wonder that we all aren't ya and so there's there's
just hope there's there's we don't need to throw in the towel
and this bottom-up can be very powerful and oh that's I know
where I was going. It it gives us a sense of
control, Robert, we We can control.
You know, learning more about this, like, people are doing
right now listening to your podcast.
And from that education, we can make different decisions.
We can make possibly change our Paradigm and from that we can
make decisions without waiting for anybody.
We don't need the government. Everybody else to make it easier
for us. It would be nice if they did.
It'd be cool if they eventually do.
And I agree with you, it's going to implode at some point.
We don't need that. at to do it and You know, as a part of
Serenity, you know, it's all about control accepting, the
things we cannot control Having the courage to change the things
we can. And having the wisdom to know
the difference, so we, you know, accept the things we cannot
control, I can't control what's going on.
Exactly directly government FDA Department of Health and Human
Services, dada dada dada, I can't little things, you can
vote, blah blah, blah. Directly.
I can't you know courage to change what I can that's really
critical component here Having the courage to change.
What you can that's not easy always.
So for some people, it ends up being easy.
Great. But for a lot of people it's not
and that's one of the reasons that it does take courage to
change what you can and what can be changed is a number of the
factors. You know, I've given I've given
the part of the iceberg sticking up out of the out of the water
today. But how do we develop the why?
Why, how do we really address, you know, substance abuse as it
relates to process? How do we address the emotional
Fitness so that we strengthen that?
So we can create that space between the stimulus and the
response, you know, I've talked about it now you're you some of
your listeners may have already heard about some of these things
but maybe a lot of its new. It's possible that we can shift
little by little but I can't I can't stress enough.
I can't encourage people enough to please know that you can
control this. If you're going to likely need
some help and guidance and weather wherever that ends up
being, you know, it's probably going to be necessary.
There's probably going to be a need for some personal
professional spiritual support. I don't mean all those but any
piece or part of those as needed personal, professional
spiritual, and education, and accountability.
It's a, you know, all the factors that go into maintaining
motivation throughout this So that it can be one but it can be
one. Yeah, one percent agreement, I
try to have an optimistic view towards it.
I tried to take very stoic approach towards it and I think
having like this extreme ownership mentality, towards the
factors that you can control just makes a lot of sense in my
mind and I totally agree with you in that with all this
pressure from the top down. Not being directed towards our
overall best interest as it pertains to health.
It is a wonder that we're not Not all morbidly obese right
now, but I feel like the Grassroots movement has
certainly gained traction. And honestly, I have a lot of
faith in the fact that people desire to be healthier, like
it's some point. Maybe the employees implosion
point is when this desire and demand for the income
discrepancy in the Haves and Have Nots as it pertains to
income is less. So about financial but more.
So just about health markers like when the Point becomes that
your health is pretty much your currency which I mean you only
have one body. What good does it do if you have
all the money in the world but no Health you know like when
that desire outweighs that of any financial means which at
some point it's bound to people's motivation and
incentive for just simply improving their own health is
going to gain the majority of their attention and and time and
effort which I think is a good thing.
Yeah, it's it's it's one of those things where I don't, I
don't want that to be the case, but I also can't say that based
on the body of evidence in the totality of the of the research
regarding obesity and where we're going, what's going on?
And the deleterious effects, that typically, or commonly
result from the higher levels, the higher classes of obesity,
you know, I can't say that won't happen, you know, so I don't
have an argument against it Robert.
I really don't, I think that It's like for me, you know, I'm
I think Weight Watchers has 45 million current members right
now. Robert, that is not me and so
but so what can I do? And that's kind of, that's kind
of what I look at. What can I do?
Well, what I can do is be the most Educated, you know,
well-rounded thoughtful compassionate coach that I can
be and I take the starfish Parable approached.
You know what? I'm referring to there.
I've heard it man, but you got didn't let me remind me what it
means. Yeah, so I won't say this
perfectly, but this is, It's always in my mind.
So, even though, you know, were, you know, were just a little
cottage company. We work with a, you know, a
smaller number of members overall.
It can be more personal that way, but I look at it, like what
good, what good can Daydream all do?
What good could you know Robert Robert do.
What could what good can we do while the speak for myself?
And I think of it this way again, going back to accept the
things. I cannot change.
All right, got it. Have the courage to change.
What I can. Okay.
All right, this is rubber meets the road stuff there and then
having the asking for wisdom, you know, to know the difference
and with regard to that in the, in the, you know, kind of the
starfish Parable. Is there was a little boy on a
beach and there were thousands of starfish that had washed up
on the shore. And a little boy, was walking
along and he was tossing. Start this shit an older man on
the beach was also there and saw the little boy walking along and
every so often picking up a starfish and tossing it back
into the ocean. Eventually, it just really had
the, the older man curious About what this little boy was doing.
And so he asked me, he said, what what are you doing?
And he says, little boy says Well throwing these, you know
starfish back in the ocean like I says there are thousands of
starfish you know on the beach here this is this can't possibly
make any difference and the little boy bends, over picks up
a starfish. Throws it back in the ocean says
Made A Difference to that one. Yeah yeah and that's how I look
at it. We're going to reach you.
We reach The right message a good message, one that actually
can work has been proven to work.
It's one of the reasons I feel so hopeful is I see people, you
know, again, I'm working with people a lot of times that have
struggled whether it's 15 pounds or 150.
They haven't been able to progress or they've lost and
regained and they have struggled for quite a long time.
And they a lot of them had all but given up on themselves low
on trust. Don't blame you a bit kind of
like I said with regard to the body positivity Group by the
acceptance of what and I don't blame him.
It's been a mess. Hmm they haven't been given the
tools. They haven't been taught what's
really going on but when it clicks it it's other than my
family Robert. It's why I live and breathe.
Yeah, I share that sentiment for Sherman.
I mean, the Fulfillment that comes from just that one email,
that one client interaction. That One Moment of clarity in
which you can feel confident that you made a positive impact
on one person's life. I mean that that's all it takes
right there, man. Like just just one of those and
yeah, you can hang your hat on that.
Yeah. It's like I have said the
clients you know jokingly but but I've said the clients I said
you know what, they'll say something you were really nice
to me because they, you know, just really experiencing finally
experiencing the Breakthrough and having really great success
and they'll say they'll give me a compliment and I'll say, you
know what, because of you, I'll do this another day because you
know, if we're if we're being real and honest we don't win
them all. Yeah.
And it breaks my heart. I take it personally, I'd like
that's why I'm constantly striving for how can I make it
better? How can I be better?
How can I help them in a better way?
How can I meet them where they are in a better way, but so you
know there's there is a level of frustration.
Addiction is a son of a gun. Hmm.
It is I don't care what the addiction is.
It's a son of a gun and typically across-the-board.
Addiction has a fairly low recovery weight rate.
It just does so we're deal. That's part of this for a lot of
people since that's the case it's going to be a thing and but
anyway yeah when it when it does click and we get a much higher
percentage that win, then are out there in the public, you
know, just trying to, you know, eat less exercise, more
moderation, in all things, flexible, blah, blah, blah.
Because you have a nuanced approach, some, your proteins
people individually and you can't scale that to the masses
necessarily but the right. The interaction with the people
that you do makes a lasting difference.
And that's, um, that's honestly, I've always said if someone
dropped 200 million dollars in my lap, I what was that Mega
Lotto thing? Just went off was like 1.3,
billions in cash value of 700 million.
Yes, I'm crazy amount. Yeah, if I won that 700 700
cash, if I won that 700 million dollars cash and I've said this
for 20 years and I'm sitting up still saying it now and I feel
exactly the same way. Matter of fact my wife just
asked me she said Dave she said what would you do?
Would you would you keep coaching if you hit that Mega
Lotto 700 million-dollar cash. I said yeah yeah of course I
would I would just do it in a bigger way.
Yeah 100% man we're speaking the same language for sure.
Yeah once that's a set of time good to speak to a kindred
spirit, Robert good, it's good to speak to a kindred spirit
really is. Yeah, no, totally David.
Well now that we've solved all the world's problems, where do
we go to find out more about you, man?
All right, I'm just gonna make it real simple.
Any links to my social, any of that's in any of its here, I
would say just go to the website.
You know, the name of the company is Leanness lifestyle
University had I known 23 years ago, when I wrote my book, you
know, the leanness lifestyle that it was going to be a
mouthful to ends two s's. You know, all that I might have
changed the name but it is leanness lifestyle University.
But our website is LL University.com.
And really, I would just say gold.
Are they can if they want to you know contact us it'll get to me,
they can do a trial of the program.
They can find the Social Links. Thing is there LL
University.com. Awesome, live indefinitely link
into that. Make it easy for people to find
him and I really appreciate the time David.
I appreciate the perspective appreciate you doing.
What you doing, making a difference throwing one starfish
back into time and if there's anything I can do for you, you
just let me know brother saying to you Robert thanks so much for
having me on. It's really been an honor and a
privilege. My pleasure man, my pleasure.
Take Care. Thank you, thank you.