1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600 Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,960 Today I've got special guest Trevor, the man behind man 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,120 Uncivilized on the podcast. He's written a great book, he 4 00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:11,680 sent me a copy. Amazing book. 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:16,239 And he's got a great group all geared towards getting men 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,040 feeling confident, who they are feeling capable and what they're 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,680 able to do. And just getting dialed in in 8 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,640 life. And stepping away from this 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,680 overly civilized world we've now found ourselves in. 10 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,880 In which people just seem to lack the the free will and the 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,960 desire to push things to the limit and be the very best they 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,240 can be on all fronts, both from a masking standpoint and from an 13 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,800 emotional standpoint. So really wanted to just bring 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,120 him on the podcast, pick his brand as to what led him to 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,770 create this brand, this ethos, this business around, you know, 16 00:00:46,810 --> 00:00:50,970 the the modern man turning guys into better versions of themself 17 00:00:50,970 --> 00:00:52,370 and I really enjoy the conversation. 18 00:00:52,570 --> 00:00:54,330 Got a lot of respect for Trevor and what he's trying to 19 00:00:54,330 --> 00:00:57,490 accomplish with this, so by all means, give it a listen. 20 00:00:57,530 --> 00:00:59,050 Have no doubt you'll take something from it. 21 00:00:59,210 --> 00:01:02,170 Without further ado, sit back, relax, enjoy the conversation 22 00:01:02,170 --> 00:01:14,690 with Trevor and we're live. Trevor, how are you man? 23 00:01:15,410 --> 00:01:16,850 Quite well. Thank you for having me on 24 00:01:16,850 --> 00:01:18,250 brother. I am excited to be chatting with 25 00:01:18,250 --> 00:01:19,370 you. You were gracious enough to let 26 00:01:19,370 --> 00:01:22,090 me jump on your podcast about a month or two back, and I'm 27 00:01:22,090 --> 00:01:23,410 excited to get you on my show, ma'am. 28 00:01:24,530 --> 00:01:26,410 Thank you. I got great feedback on that. 29 00:01:26,410 --> 00:01:29,610 Just so you know, I had a number of guys be like, OK, that's what 30 00:01:29,610 --> 00:01:31,010 I needed. I'm back in the gym this 31 00:01:31,010 --> 00:01:32,490 morning. I'm good. 32 00:01:32,530 --> 00:01:33,650 Good. I'm glad to hear that. 33 00:01:33,650 --> 00:01:36,610 I'm glad to hear that I got your book sitting right here in front 34 00:01:36,610 --> 00:01:38,970 of me. I I confess I have not read it 35 00:01:38,970 --> 00:01:41,650 yet, but I've been wrapping your hat like it's going out to stop. 36 00:01:41,650 --> 00:01:44,570 Man, I've been wearing that thing nonstop, and I've got your 37 00:01:44,570 --> 00:01:47,370 book on my reading list. I just am working through it 38 00:01:47,370 --> 00:01:49,250 slowly but surely. Perfect. 39 00:01:49,410 --> 00:01:50,250 Perfect. Perfect. 40 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:52,450 So for the listeners, give them to context here. 41 00:01:52,450 --> 00:01:55,130 We actually met. We're both part of a mastermind 42 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:57,970 group, which we could totally talk about that on the podcast 43 00:01:57,970 --> 00:01:59,450 too. I think that's relevant because 44 00:01:59,450 --> 00:02:02,250 I've always been super skeptical of mastermind groups. 45 00:02:03,290 --> 00:02:05,250 A lot of times are just like a big money grab. 46 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:08,729 And you and I have joined that one at about the same time, 47 00:02:09,090 --> 00:02:12,020 except they haven't learned to call you correctly and they 48 00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:14,300 still call you Trevor instead of Trevor for some reason. 49 00:02:14,580 --> 00:02:16,620 I noticed that every time and I just want to like interject him 50 00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:19,580 like it's Trevor. I think I did. 51 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:23,220 The first time I was like, it's Trevor, but now you're just 52 00:02:23,220 --> 00:02:25,620 rolling with it, huh? Yeah, I like it. 53 00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:27,500 I like it. So yeah, we're we're on a 54 00:02:27,580 --> 00:02:29,700 mastermind group. We're on Rob Bailey's group. 55 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:32,100 He's got to his clear, calculated and vicious group, 56 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:34,020 which I guess is now called Training Grounds. 57 00:02:35,060 --> 00:02:37,930 But that's been, I don't know what do you think so far you 58 00:02:37,930 --> 00:02:40,210 think it's been a pretty good group for you cuz we've both 59 00:02:40,210 --> 00:02:43,010 been on it for what, three months, maybe four months now? 60 00:02:43,810 --> 00:02:46,970 Yeah, you know, I hear the pros and cons and I love Rob. 61 00:02:46,970 --> 00:02:49,570 I interviewed Rob, got a feel for him and was like, wow, 62 00:02:49,570 --> 00:02:55,930 that's a really unique blend of business acumen artistry. 63 00:02:56,010 --> 00:03:00,570 Like he's an artist and just general bull in a China shop. 64 00:03:00,570 --> 00:03:01,650 Ness. Yeah. 65 00:03:01,650 --> 00:03:04,730 And like though that that trifecta was something that I 66 00:03:04,730 --> 00:03:09,200 found. Hard to find and I I resonated 67 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,080 with. I know they've had some 68 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,800 challenges like back end like you're probably the only person 69 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,320 I've really talked to from the group and and I I run my own 70 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,120 group. So I also know it's hard to get 71 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,040 people who are busy and who are motivated to then come onto your 72 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,840 app and have you know sideline conversations. 73 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,840 But yeah, I I found it to be really valuable. 74 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,560 Every week when I show up for the call, I leave and I probably 75 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:39,230 do. 5 to 8 things I wouldn't have done if it even if it's 76 00:03:39,230 --> 00:03:43,070 like make the phone call, send the e-mail, you know it's not 5 77 00:03:43,070 --> 00:03:46,910 to 8 like go by the building and launch the new program. 78 00:03:47,230 --> 00:03:50,470 So it's it's definitely keeping me on track and it's just it's 79 00:03:50,710 --> 00:03:53,990 there's something about men specifically. 80 00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:58,150 We learn by modeling. And so I want to see a guy like 81 00:03:58,150 --> 00:04:02,750 Rob doing the things he does so that my male brain goes, hey, 82 00:04:02,750 --> 00:04:04,830 you can do that too. Yeah. 83 00:04:04,830 --> 00:04:06,470 And so I've found it to be really valuable. 84 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:10,110 Have you made it on pretty much every Tuesday, live call or no? 85 00:04:11,070 --> 00:04:13,830 I think I've missed like one when I was traveling in Europe. 86 00:04:14,270 --> 00:04:17,589 I've missed more than one for sure, but I try and go back and 87 00:04:17,589 --> 00:04:21,029 listen to the replays or even if I'm am traveling maybe have it 88 00:04:21,029 --> 00:04:23,590 like in the background playing like last week's. 89 00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:27,110 I jumped on the tail end of it, but then somebody had some 90 00:04:27,110 --> 00:04:28,870 questions about starting up a food business. 91 00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:31,270 So I jumped in there and tried to obviously value there, which 92 00:04:31,270 --> 00:04:33,270 was cool. I like that component of it. 93 00:04:33,270 --> 00:04:36,950 Like you've got a collective of people with different skill sets 94 00:04:36,950 --> 00:04:40,070 that can offer value in some form or fashion to the whole 95 00:04:40,070 --> 00:04:42,350 for. Sure, for sure. 96 00:04:42,670 --> 00:04:44,270 But I want to dive into your story man. 97 00:04:44,270 --> 00:04:46,990 So I've like I said, I've got your book Man and Civilized, 98 00:04:46,990 --> 00:04:49,270 which is a super sleek looking book by the way. 99 00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:52,750 It's almost like a it's like a coffee table esque book. 100 00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:54,910 Like I would. I would proudly place this on 101 00:04:54,910 --> 00:04:57,490 display because it's just really well formatted. 102 00:04:57,490 --> 00:05:00,010 Like about the imagery, the colors. 103 00:05:00,010 --> 00:05:01,770 I mean this. This was not a cheap book to 104 00:05:01,770 --> 00:05:03,530 print based off the colors I wouldn't think. 105 00:05:04,250 --> 00:05:06,050 It's not. And you know what's so 106 00:05:06,050 --> 00:05:10,330 interesting about it, Rob, is when I was writing it, I was 107 00:05:10,330 --> 00:05:14,490 dating a designer. And I didn't know when I met her 108 00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:18,130 that she was like literally one of the top three designers in 109 00:05:18,130 --> 00:05:21,930 New York City, which is just, you know, that's the Super Bowl 110 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:25,330 of that type of work. And I sent her some of the 111 00:05:25,330 --> 00:05:27,350 writing. And she's like, this writing is 112 00:05:27,350 --> 00:05:30,950 really, really good. I'm not going to lie to you, men 113 00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:33,350 won't read like black ink, white paper. 114 00:05:33,350 --> 00:05:36,510 If you just do a standard book, this is going to get pushed to 115 00:05:36,510 --> 00:05:39,670 the side and it won't make the impact that you want. 116 00:05:39,910 --> 00:05:42,790 So are you okay if I do some design work with it? 117 00:05:43,310 --> 00:05:45,990 And this was, you know, 4-5 years ago, I had no 118 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:49,390 understanding of the power of design or I didn't know anything 119 00:05:49,390 --> 00:05:50,830 about branding. You know, I was. 120 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:52,510 I was a writer as an acupuncturist. 121 00:05:52,630 --> 00:05:56,960 I owned a gym. I just didn't get playing at 122 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,400 that level and design at that level. 123 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,400 And now it's it's one of the most integral parts of my 124 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,520 business is her the branding that she designed and of that 125 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,720 book, that's the feedback that I get most first is like I, you 126 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,120 know, I'm sitting on a table of 10 other men's books. 127 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,440 I grabbed yours because there's a gorilla on the cover. 128 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,520 There's No title on the cover. You know, it's small print. 129 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:24,050 There's this weird symbol on it. Like, that's what grabbed me. 130 00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:28,570 So yeah, the genius behind it wasn't mine, but man, is it made 131 00:06:28,570 --> 00:06:30,650 an impact. Hey, well, it's working from a 132 00:06:30,930 --> 00:06:32,490 branding standpoint. I love it for sure. 133 00:06:32,770 --> 00:06:33,530 Yeah. Thank you. 134 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:37,890 So with with the whole, I don't want to butcher man, So can you 135 00:06:37,890 --> 00:06:41,490 define for me what genre you're you're in right now? 136 00:06:42,890 --> 00:06:44,810 I'm in what we call the men's space. 137 00:06:44,930 --> 00:06:47,690 OK, that's so fun. But I didn't want to like. 138 00:06:47,690 --> 00:06:49,210 I didn't want to say that they'd be like. 139 00:06:51,030 --> 00:06:53,950 You know, like Rob, when I have to like fill out, you know, like 140 00:06:53,950 --> 00:06:56,350 I've applied for a loan a couple months ago and they're like what 141 00:06:56,350 --> 00:06:58,990 space you in. I was like okay, let's try to 142 00:06:58,990 --> 00:07:01,910 figure this out of the nine options I've been giving, which 143 00:07:01,910 --> 00:07:06,230 was like electronics, retail, plumbing, you know, Yeah, like 144 00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:08,550 other and then have to describe it. 145 00:07:08,550 --> 00:07:13,630 But there is this idea that that's caught on more so in the 146 00:07:13,630 --> 00:07:16,830 last couple years that when I was first playing with this. 147 00:07:17,190 --> 00:07:20,070 It was so niche, like no one knew what the hell we were 148 00:07:20,070 --> 00:07:23,230 talking about. I was very fortunate to get into 149 00:07:23,230 --> 00:07:28,470 CrossFit in like 06/07. Meaning when when like there 150 00:07:28,470 --> 00:07:32,110 were you know, 50 gyms in the world and people were driving 2 151 00:07:32,110 --> 00:07:34,630 to 3 hours to go work out at a CrossFit gym. 152 00:07:35,110 --> 00:07:40,710 And then I opened a gym in 09. And for the first two years, we 153 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:44,510 had to explain to everybody what this crazy thing was of people 154 00:07:44,510 --> 00:07:46,550 running around the block and flipping tires and. 155 00:07:46,860 --> 00:07:48,620 Doing pull ups that they probably shouldn't have been 156 00:07:48,620 --> 00:07:50,580 doing and and yadda, yadda, yadda. 157 00:07:50,940 --> 00:07:55,100 And then two years later, people started approaching us like, 158 00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:57,620 hey, I saw this on TV, hey, my buddy does this. 159 00:07:57,620 --> 00:07:58,940 I know what it is I want to join. 160 00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:02,540 And I kind of got to live through that same idea with the 161 00:08:02,540 --> 00:08:05,940 men's space. And we're just around, you know, 162 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:10,460 2011 CrossFit with with men's work, with understanding that 163 00:08:10,580 --> 00:08:13,260 men's mental health is different, that men think 164 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:16,430 differently, act differently. You know need different things 165 00:08:16,430 --> 00:08:21,310 that there's there's a a a paradigm around us that is 166 00:08:21,310 --> 00:08:24,390 different than the rest of the world and so the space is 167 00:08:24,390 --> 00:08:27,710 opening up business wise, you know with with other other guys 168 00:08:27,710 --> 00:08:30,950 doing their own movements, different workshops etcetera. 169 00:08:30,950 --> 00:08:33,789 But yeah, it's it's kind of elusive still. 170 00:08:34,110 --> 00:08:36,789 Like if I pluck someone off the street and said do you know what 171 00:08:36,789 --> 00:08:39,750 men's work is? They most likely don't. 172 00:08:40,620 --> 00:08:43,580 And if I go to the coasts, maybe if I'm in California or in New 173 00:08:43,580 --> 00:08:46,980 York or even here in Colorado, there's a bit of a push for it. 174 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:50,780 How would you define men's work? Like how if you were to look 175 00:08:50,780 --> 00:08:53,620 that up in the dictionary in today's day and age, what would 176 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:58,260 that be defined as? The way I would define it as 177 00:08:58,260 --> 00:09:03,940 like a specific path for men to take to be more successful, to 178 00:09:03,940 --> 00:09:08,420 be more relational and just to be more satisfied and. 179 00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:12,020 Productive and powerful in their lives, right? 180 00:09:12,020 --> 00:09:14,140 It's like we speak a different language. 181 00:09:14,740 --> 00:09:17,540 You know, I imagine a lot of your listeners are fitness 182 00:09:17,540 --> 00:09:20,300 people. And so if we said, you know, 183 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:25,340 like bodybuilding, like that's just fitness, right? 184 00:09:25,580 --> 00:09:28,260 Like it's no different than long distance running. 185 00:09:28,500 --> 00:09:30,740 It's no different than like surfing, right? 186 00:09:30,740 --> 00:09:33,020 It's just, it's fitness. You'd be like, no, there's a 187 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:37,100 very specific thing that we do for a specific outcome. 188 00:09:37,830 --> 00:09:40,270 And if you run and surf, you're going to, yeah, you're going to 189 00:09:40,270 --> 00:09:42,790 get fitness, just like if your bodybuild, you're going to get 190 00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:45,070 some fitness. But it's different to be in this 191 00:09:45,070 --> 00:09:48,710 particular genre. So like, I've tried to explain 192 00:09:48,710 --> 00:09:51,790 this as like when people understand and I have no 193 00:09:51,790 --> 00:09:54,790 religious affiliation, but when people understand, say, 194 00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:59,430 Christianity, and it lands in them, they're like, OK, there's 195 00:09:59,430 --> 00:10:02,990 a pathway here. There's specific things that if 196 00:10:02,990 --> 00:10:05,460 I follow. My life will be better. 197 00:10:05,460 --> 00:10:08,980 If I go against my life will be harder, yeah. 198 00:10:09,380 --> 00:10:11,900 Right, like that. That's an obtuse way to explain 199 00:10:12,140 --> 00:10:14,580 that. When I take a guy and I sit him 200 00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:17,420 down, just like I pluck Johnny off the street and I'd sit him 201 00:10:17,420 --> 00:10:20,100 down and like, how's your life? You probably like most. 202 00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:24,020 Most guys are like, it's fine. I'm like, cool, let's dive into 203 00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:25,260 it. You're you're drinking six 204 00:10:25,260 --> 00:10:27,580 nights, six nights a week. You're looking at porn every 205 00:10:27,580 --> 00:10:31,140 day, You're £50 overweight, you're on your second divorce, 206 00:10:31,140 --> 00:10:32,820 you know your wife's about to leave you and you don't talk to 207 00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:35,870 your kids. So tell me again, are you fine? 208 00:10:36,510 --> 00:10:38,910 And again, most guys are like, yeah, it's kind of normal. 209 00:10:39,310 --> 00:10:44,270 I'm like, OK, normal isn't fine. What if we actually got you in 210 00:10:44,270 --> 00:10:47,830 alignment with a couple different concepts and 211 00:10:47,830 --> 00:10:52,910 principles #1 integrity. Your thoughts, your words and 212 00:10:52,910 --> 00:10:56,270 your actions have to match. It's really important for men 213 00:10:57,150 --> 00:11:00,870 your thought when your thoughts, words and actions match the 214 00:11:00,870 --> 00:11:04,690 vision you have for your life. Meaning you have to have a 215 00:11:04,690 --> 00:11:08,570 vision. Your life gets even better now. 216 00:11:08,570 --> 00:11:12,010 Your thoughts, your words and actions are in alignment with a 217 00:11:12,010 --> 00:11:16,370 vision that's actually yours. It's not your dad's, it's not 218 00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:18,330 your grandparents, it's not societies. 219 00:11:18,610 --> 00:11:22,330 Because you've worked through who you are and what you want as 220 00:11:22,330 --> 00:11:25,490 a man. Now, your life opens up in all 221 00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:28,410 kinds of different ways, and that's just like a quick and 222 00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:31,290 dirty explanation. Does that make sense? 223 00:11:31,290 --> 00:11:33,450 Makes total sense man. And I feel like there's always 224 00:11:33,450 --> 00:11:36,650 been that genre in existence. Like if you look at some of the 225 00:11:36,650 --> 00:11:40,130 ancient writings from Marcus Aurelius or you look at like 226 00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:44,290 Hemingway, there's all this talk of what makes and embodies a 227 00:11:44,290 --> 00:11:48,850 well-rounded man. But I feel like it's become more 228 00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:53,210 the need for that genre has become more prominent as of 229 00:11:53,210 --> 00:11:55,230 late. And maybe it's a bias that I 230 00:11:55,230 --> 00:11:58,990 hold because I am of that age demographic where I'm really 231 00:11:58,990 --> 00:12:02,270 trying to be better as a man now that I'm a father especially. 232 00:12:02,670 --> 00:12:05,710 But at the same time, I feel like there's also this massive 233 00:12:05,710 --> 00:12:11,030 push for demosculating men. And whenever you have this 234 00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:13,910 extreme push towards one end of the spectrum of the other, 235 00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:15,870 there's going to be an equalizing effect that takes 236 00:12:15,870 --> 00:12:16,790 place. And I think that's what we're 237 00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:21,550 experiencing right now. 1000% I love that you said that if we go 238 00:12:21,550 --> 00:12:23,270 back in the beginning of time, right? 239 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,080 I was fortunate 2 weeks ago to take a jiu jitsu seminar with 240 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,480 Halleck. Gracie and Halleck is horrian 241 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,160 son. Horrian started the UFC. 242 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,840 So hallecks in like the upper echelon of jiu jitsu. 243 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,920 Family elites like like monarchy, let's say right? 244 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,480 He's like the Crown Prince of jiu jitsu or one of and he sat 245 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,880 down with us and said there's a thread. 246 00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:54,850 That's gone back from the beginning of time, through 247 00:12:54,850 --> 00:12:57,290 fighting and through martial arts. 248 00:12:57,890 --> 00:13:02,770 And I feel blessed just to be in the last chapter and continuing 249 00:13:02,770 --> 00:13:04,330 this same thread. And I'm. 250 00:13:04,330 --> 00:13:07,250 I just got chills telling you that story because I got chills 251 00:13:07,250 --> 00:13:12,130 in the audience saying, oh, there's a thread that's gone 252 00:13:12,130 --> 00:13:14,850 back from the beginning of time from guys sitting around a 253 00:13:14,850 --> 00:13:18,530 campfire. To Marcus Aurelius, to guys in 254 00:13:18,530 --> 00:13:21,530 the 60s, to guys in the 70s. I know we jumped a bit there, 255 00:13:21,970 --> 00:13:26,130 but from you know to guys in the 80s to guys in the 90s to now. 256 00:13:26,370 --> 00:13:30,570 And I feel very blessed just to be at the forefront of this next 257 00:13:30,570 --> 00:13:34,170 chapter which in in your description, I don't think it's 258 00:13:34,330 --> 00:13:39,250 age, brother, I think you are of an age and I'm 47 where I 259 00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:44,450 remember or I've watched the the pathway of masculinity change. 260 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,600 Right. It went from perhaps in the I 261 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,120 grew up in the 70s and 80s where it was this very stoic, you 262 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,080 know, kind of 1950s Marlboro, who are our idols, Rambo, 263 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:03,760 commando, GI Joe, like guys that that were just kicking ass in 264 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,360 the world but didn't have any emotional intelligence or that 265 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,320 wasn't celebrated. And then boom. 10 years ago, the 266 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,400 pendulum swung the other way. And it was like Rambo commando 267 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,280 GI Joe. That's toxic. 268 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,720 That's awful. We need to get rid of that. 269 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,800 We need sensitive, emotionally intelligent, very feminine men. 270 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,920 And we need to like I I say we threw the masculine baby out 271 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,400 with a toxic bathwater. That's what we kind of did 272 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,880 societally. Like, wow, men do really bad 273 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,520 shit. And I agree with you. 274 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,800 I agree with people who say that some men do really bad shit. 275 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,000 So unfortunately what we did as society that said okay blanket 276 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,240 statement, all men bad, all masculinity bad, anything that 277 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,080 has to do with masculinity toxic. 278 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,400 And as you pointed out, that created a backlash, not just of 279 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,000 men. When I started doing this 280 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,800 writing and speaking 5-6 years ago, what was wild Robert was 281 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,480 how many women would reach out and say fuck thank you? 282 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,120 Thank you so much. And not only do I want this kind 283 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,640 of man as a partner, like a strong, stoic, leader based, you 284 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:22,760 know, faith-based, emotionally intelligent, like I want both. 285 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,800 But I I can't say that publicly or I'll get annihilated by my 286 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,440 female friends, by feminists, by the culture. 287 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,560 I have to say, like, all masculinity is toxic. 288 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,160 And I was like, holy shit, this is crazy. 289 00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:40,830 And now here we are, you know, five years later, and those 290 00:15:40,830 --> 00:15:42,750 people are it's public. You can say that. 291 00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:46,590 You can actually say, like, hey, it's okay for a man to be 292 00:15:46,590 --> 00:15:48,390 strong. It's okay for a man to want to 293 00:15:48,390 --> 00:15:50,910 be strong. Actually, we need strong men. 294 00:15:51,630 --> 00:15:54,270 But what we also need is men who have worked through their 295 00:15:54,270 --> 00:15:59,190 trauma, right? The the, the subtext of my whole 296 00:15:59,190 --> 00:16:04,910 movement of the uncivilized is to end the unnecessary suffering 297 00:16:04,910 --> 00:16:07,310 in men. And here's why. 298 00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:10,790 So that we end the suffering caused by men. 299 00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:15,950 Now what we haven't really grasped as a society is that a 300 00:16:15,950 --> 00:16:20,230 lot of the really bad shit that men do is because a lot of 301 00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:23,510 really bad shit has happened to those men. 302 00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:28,950 Now that's a full stop, right? As a culture, especially here in 303 00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:31,350 the West, we're like, no, no, no, no, that's that's fine. 304 00:16:31,390 --> 00:16:33,030 Like they they just need to man up. 305 00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:35,830 They need to get over that. I get it. 306 00:16:36,070 --> 00:16:39,030 He came back from war, saw a lot of really horrible stuff. 307 00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:42,230 Give him like a couple Valium and and a 12 pack and tell him 308 00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:43,950 to like toughen up and he'll be fine. 309 00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:48,430 Like, we we haven't really figured out that a lot of men 310 00:16:48,430 --> 00:16:51,390 have been abused. A lot of men have been sexually 311 00:16:51,390 --> 00:16:53,950 assaulted. A lot of men grew up in houses 312 00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:55,870 that would make your head spin around. 313 00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:59,390 Like, I know this because these are the guys that come to me. 314 00:16:59,790 --> 00:17:02,070 They come to the workshops that come to the events that they 315 00:17:02,070 --> 00:17:05,630 pull me aside afterwards. Like, hey, this is what I grew 316 00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:07,270 up. These are my clients, right? 317 00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:10,790 And it's not just guys who have lived through horrible shit, but 318 00:17:10,790 --> 00:17:16,829 it's it's like, it's an unknown. If you try this, like grab, you 319 00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:20,430 know, five women off the street and say what percentage of men 320 00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:22,950 do you think were sexually assaulted as little boys? 321 00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:28,150 And it will be something like 3%, you know, it's like a 1%. 322 00:17:28,150 --> 00:17:30,030 Like it doesn't really happen. Like, how could it happen? 323 00:17:30,030 --> 00:17:31,870 They're bullet, you know, they're they're they're men, 324 00:17:31,870 --> 00:17:33,750 too. And you realize, wow, it's like 325 00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:40,190 3040%, it's some crazy number like, oh, no wonder that dude 326 00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:44,150 grew up to like be a terrible human, to be an alcoholic, to be 327 00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:47,310 an addict, to be a school shooter, to be whatever it was. 328 00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:51,310 And and we just haven't really. I know I'm on a soapbox here as 329 00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:55,910 a culture decide to go like oh shit, in order to stop the the 330 00:17:55,950 --> 00:17:59,270 predator or the, you know, the bad person, we actually have to 331 00:17:59,270 --> 00:18:01,070 dress the human who's underneath him. 332 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:05,090 Yeah, I completely agree man. I I don't like this notion that 333 00:18:05,530 --> 00:18:09,210 being tough and quote UN quote manly is mutually exclusive of 334 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:11,530 having emotional intelligence and being sensitive. 335 00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:15,690 Like there is a symbiotic relationship that can be shared 336 00:18:15,690 --> 00:18:18,010 there and if you there there's a yin Yang. 337 00:18:18,010 --> 00:18:21,730 Like if you get one dialed in it can only benefit the other if 338 00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:24,610 done properly if they're you know in Symphony together. 339 00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:27,770 And, like, I feel like, like I look at my own life and I've 340 00:18:27,770 --> 00:18:29,770 certainly got a lot that I can prove upon. 341 00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:33,270 But I would definitely consider myself, you know, I've got 342 00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:36,430 emotional moments. I've got very sensitive moments. 343 00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:40,710 I have a lot of feelings. But I don't think that 344 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:42,630 discredits my masculinity at all. 345 00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:46,150 Like, I'm incredibly confident in who I am as a man. 346 00:18:46,670 --> 00:18:49,750 And it's because I have those components to my life as opposed 347 00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:52,510 to just, you know, burying them down deep inside of me and 348 00:18:52,510 --> 00:18:56,910 never, never opening them up. Yeah, we we like ASK men and and 349 00:18:56,910 --> 00:18:58,950 we're guilty of this too. Right. 350 00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:01,710 Like, it's not just this. Like society's not just this 351 00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:06,070 external thing that lives way out there and isn't comprised of 352 00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:10,630 individuals that we also like, bury it ourselves. 353 00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:16,390 Or we we we ask ourselves or we ask other men to simply not be 354 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:18,990 human. I'm like, if something bad 355 00:19:18,990 --> 00:19:21,390 happened in your life, that's going to create an emotional 356 00:19:21,390 --> 00:19:23,990 response. I don't care who you are. 357 00:19:24,340 --> 00:19:26,660 I don't care what color you are. I don't care how much you weigh. 358 00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:28,140 I don't care how much money you have. 359 00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:31,260 I don't care what your religion is like, that there's a natural 360 00:19:31,260 --> 00:19:33,620 response to something bad happening. 361 00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:39,220 And if we're able to and when we're able to actually process 362 00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:43,940 and work through that as no matter what gender, sex, however 363 00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:47,540 you relate like, then you actually get to clear it out of 364 00:19:47,540 --> 00:19:51,420 your system, right? Like that's just basic humanity. 365 00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:53,820 It's like men and women both need food. 366 00:19:54,260 --> 00:19:55,100 Period. I don't care. 367 00:19:55,260 --> 00:19:57,740 If anyone wants to argue with that one, go for it. 368 00:19:58,140 --> 00:20:00,460 Just like bad shit happens to everybody. 369 00:20:01,180 --> 00:20:05,060 We just process it differently and and like you said, I think 370 00:20:05,060 --> 00:20:09,340 there needs to be the balance when bad things have happened in 371 00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:11,260 my life. Like a couple months ago I had a 372 00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:13,940 a family member unfortunately take his own life. 373 00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:17,580 It fucked me up. I went to therapy. 374 00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,900 I talked to professionals. I talked to my girlfriend about 375 00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:21,980 it. I cried about it. 376 00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:24,260 I wrote letters, You know, I sat by the fire. 377 00:20:24,420 --> 00:20:29,180 But you know what else I did? I trained my ass off because it 378 00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:31,980 actually, like, OK, I want to do something with all of this 379 00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:34,180 energy, right? I'm upset. 380 00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:36,420 I'm, I'm, I'm angry. I'm. 381 00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:40,060 I can't control what happened. What can I control today? 382 00:20:40,540 --> 00:20:43,020 I can go to the fucking gym, right? 383 00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:46,380 225 is 225 whether somebody died or they didn't die. 384 00:20:47,650 --> 00:20:50,490 So I'm going to use this energy for something. 385 00:20:51,130 --> 00:20:55,530 I think that that combo I found when when men have access to 386 00:20:55,530 --> 00:20:59,810 that primal side too with like I've had bad shit happen and 387 00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:03,810 surf the biggest waves of my life, you know, come back in and 388 00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:06,010 like OKI feel a little bit better. 389 00:21:06,690 --> 00:21:08,610 I think I can tackle the day now right? 390 00:21:09,090 --> 00:21:11,650 But it doesn't excuse me from actually having to also deal 391 00:21:11,650 --> 00:21:15,410 with the thing that happened. But one of the challenges with 392 00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:21,390 men's mental health in our society is I think we take that 393 00:21:21,390 --> 00:21:23,590 mostly a feminine approach to it. 394 00:21:23,790 --> 00:21:26,550 You either ignore it and do the whole like you just got to man 395 00:21:26,550 --> 00:21:30,270 up and get over that, or we take the like, just tell me about 396 00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:34,670 your feelings, like let's get lost in this array and sea of 397 00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:36,990 feelings. And after the session, don't go 398 00:21:36,990 --> 00:21:41,350 okay cool tomorrow, get up and run a 5K because you're also 399 00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:42,510 going to feel better from doing that. 400 00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:44,630 You're right. It's the yin and Yang of it's 401 00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:46,910 both. That's how we really make some 402 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:50,070 shifts in in men. Yeah, I feel like for me, 403 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:54,830 whenever I've gone through a period of turmoil, if I can have 404 00:21:55,070 --> 00:21:59,230 just my nutrition and my training dialed in, that gives 405 00:21:59,230 --> 00:22:02,070 me enough of a firm footing to crawl out of whatever hell I 406 00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:05,070 currently find myself in. But if I didn't have that, I 407 00:22:05,070 --> 00:22:07,950 would be truly lost. And that doesn't have to be the 408 00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:09,790 outlet for like for some it may be. 409 00:22:10,180 --> 00:22:11,940 Some other art form or something. 410 00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:13,700 You know, getting out in the woods, something. 411 00:22:13,740 --> 00:22:17,140 But you gotta have, you gotta have something to give yourself 412 00:22:17,140 --> 00:22:19,060 a firm footing or else you will be lost. 413 00:22:19,580 --> 00:22:22,580 Yeah. We like I tell people the the 414 00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:25,340 feminine and we can call that whatever energy it's. 415 00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:30,180 It's more in women but we definitely have it And if people 416 00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:32,580 don't like the term feminine, call it something else. 417 00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:35,380 But it's very it's the feeling emotion. 418 00:22:35,380 --> 00:22:40,290 It's the feeling energy, right? The masculine, us men or 419 00:22:40,290 --> 00:22:43,250 whatever we want to call it, is the doing energy. 420 00:22:43,930 --> 00:22:48,850 And so we need to be doing. It's just we we are I I just 421 00:22:48,850 --> 00:22:50,810 cannot take. I can't tell you how many men 422 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:53,330 when I go back to the original thing that we talked about like 423 00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:55,050 having a purpose and having a vision. 424 00:22:56,130 --> 00:23:00,410 When I've gotten men who come into my orbit who are lost, they 425 00:23:00,410 --> 00:23:02,890 just got divorced. They just lost their job. 426 00:23:03,170 --> 00:23:05,530 You know a parent died a kid was sick. 427 00:23:05,650 --> 00:23:08,210 Something awful happened. And I'm like, what are you 428 00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:11,980 focused on right now? I'm just focused on that. 429 00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:14,260 OK, cool. Do that for like 2 weeks because 430 00:23:14,260 --> 00:23:15,380 I get it. It's a big deal. 431 00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:19,980 And what's the thing that you're going to put your attention on 432 00:23:19,980 --> 00:23:22,460 afterwards? Because there needs to be 433 00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:26,180 another side to the coin or there needs to be a yes and 434 00:23:26,580 --> 00:23:28,420 right. Like, yes, I'm depressed. 435 00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:31,020 Yes, I'm upset. Yes, I'm hurt. 436 00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:35,140 And there's this thing over here that's bigger than me. 437 00:23:36,110 --> 00:23:38,710 For me, it was writing books and building the movement, right? 438 00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:40,310 Like, that's how I got through my divorce. 439 00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:43,790 I wrote books. I had something I had to get up 440 00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:46,910 and do every day that was bigger than me, like an idea that was 441 00:23:46,910 --> 00:23:49,030 bigger than me. So you said, like, training and 442 00:23:49,030 --> 00:23:52,870 nutrition, you got to do that. It's not just a feeling thing. 443 00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:55,150 It's like, OK, you're not going to feel your way. 444 00:23:55,390 --> 00:23:57,590 You don't sit on your couch and feel your way through a gym 445 00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:59,910 exercise. You drive to the damn gym, you 446 00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:02,510 pick up the bar, you push it over your head, etcetera. 447 00:24:03,310 --> 00:24:07,270 So I I think it's that blend of of of feeling and doing. 448 00:24:07,390 --> 00:24:12,110 And the challenge we've had in the past societally is men have 449 00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:16,790 been asked and then tasked with just doing. 450 00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:21,470 We've had them for so many decades be like don't feel, 451 00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:25,430 because if you feel we can't get you to do all this stuff that we 452 00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:28,550 need you to do. And then the pendulum swung the 453 00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:30,430 other way and it was like just feel. 454 00:24:31,310 --> 00:24:34,430 And now we have an entire generation of young men who've 455 00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:36,910 dropped out of school, who've dropped out of college, who 456 00:24:36,910 --> 00:24:40,110 dropped out of the workforce, who are completely out of shape 457 00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:41,590 and are just sitting in their parents house. 458 00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:44,790 I know I'm going to pick on video games, but you know, 459 00:24:44,790 --> 00:24:47,110 getting high, playing video games and looking at porn, 460 00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:50,230 they're not doing. And guess what? 461 00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:53,790 They're not happy. They're not successful. 462 00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:55,910 They're not satisfied. They don't have joy. 463 00:24:56,590 --> 00:24:59,390 I'm not saying that the tragedy is that they're not out there 464 00:24:59,630 --> 00:25:02,630 contributing to our society. I'm saying let's take it even a 465 00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:05,870 level lower. They're just not happy people. 466 00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:10,030 And and that to me is the shame because they've been lied to. 467 00:25:10,030 --> 00:25:12,430 They got sold a false bill of goods. 468 00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:16,230 And so when I get guys that age, I'm like, cool, you got to set 469 00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:19,630 some goals, right? We get guys in their 50s that 470 00:25:19,630 --> 00:25:21,870 come into the program, Robert, and it's like awesome. 471 00:25:21,870 --> 00:25:24,150 You've crushed all your goals. How do you feel? 472 00:25:25,220 --> 00:25:28,060 They're like, well no one's asked me that in 30 years, like, 473 00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:30,820 OK, I just asked you, it's going to be a foreign question. 474 00:25:31,140 --> 00:25:33,340 And then we get these younger guys come in and like, cool, I 475 00:25:33,340 --> 00:25:35,660 know how you feel. Now what are you going to do? 476 00:25:35,660 --> 00:25:38,820 And they're like, oh, no one's ever asked me that. 477 00:25:39,420 --> 00:25:41,860 Like, I know I'm going to sit right in the middle and piss 478 00:25:41,860 --> 00:25:43,260 both you guys off. Alright, let's. 479 00:25:44,580 --> 00:25:48,020 Go This is honestly probably why I think I'm having a vehicle 480 00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:52,500 that allows some forward momentum and like tangible 481 00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:54,820 progress that can be grasped and built upon. 482 00:25:55,170 --> 00:25:58,490 But allows you to play into both this action of doing and also 483 00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:02,290 this sense of emotion and feeling is key. 484 00:26:02,290 --> 00:26:07,090 And for me like business is that vehicle, like with business you 485 00:26:07,090 --> 00:26:10,450 have to put forth action, but you also have to be strategic 486 00:26:10,450 --> 00:26:12,410 and how you act, dress, you're just going to be pissing in the 487 00:26:12,410 --> 00:26:15,370 wind so to speak. So like business has been that 488 00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:19,470 vehicle for me and. Again, I'm assuming there's lots 489 00:26:19,470 --> 00:26:21,670 of different vehicles depending on the personality type, but 490 00:26:21,670 --> 00:26:24,870 like you need to have something like training's great as well, 491 00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:27,670 but I you could easily just, you know, going to the gym and crush 492 00:26:27,670 --> 00:26:30,790 it but then not allow that to tap into the emotional state. 493 00:26:30,790 --> 00:26:33,150 Like you have to have both, for sure. 494 00:26:34,270 --> 00:26:35,630 Yeah. I I agree with you, man. 495 00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:39,390 And I know we're probably biased because I know this works for 496 00:26:39,390 --> 00:26:41,910 us. It's like it's it's the vehicle 497 00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:44,350 that we've chosen. But I don't know about you, but 498 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:48,300 I have found entrepreneurship and business to be one of the 499 00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:53,420 most emotionally stretching and enlightening activities I've 500 00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:58,980 ever engaged in 100%. It is a whirlwind of emotion and 501 00:26:58,980 --> 00:27:02,060 I think I know your business. So I believe this, even though 502 00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:05,260 I'm just going to project it, that like it's feeling. 503 00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:09,220 You have to feel like you got to get a gut sense of like I 504 00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:12,420 started uncivilized off on like a gut feeling. 505 00:27:13,630 --> 00:27:15,470 I didn't look at the market and go, oh, you know what? 506 00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:18,870 I think will be really nifty. I'll just talk to men and have 507 00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:22,350 people call me a misogynist for three years and then this thing 508 00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:25,110 will take off. It wasn't like an analytical 509 00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:28,910 process. It was man, I think we need this 510 00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:31,270 and I think I need it. Fuck, I can feel this in my 511 00:27:31,270 --> 00:27:35,150 stomach. It actually went against common 512 00:27:35,310 --> 00:27:37,030 knowledge. It went and I know many people 513 00:27:37,030 --> 00:27:39,510 said, like, don't do this terrible business idea. 514 00:27:39,870 --> 00:27:41,910 Men don't buy anything. Men don't spend money, 515 00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:43,310 especially not in self development. 516 00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:45,420 Like, whatever. You just like, create a product 517 00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:47,540 for women. I was like, Nah, I really want 518 00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:49,700 to work with us. You know, I imagine you went 519 00:27:49,940 --> 00:27:52,420 through a lot of the similar with keto or the general 520 00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:54,340 public's. Like, wait a minute, you haven't 521 00:27:54,340 --> 00:28:00,260 had a carb since 2006. How do you eat McDonald's? 522 00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:02,980 Yeah, I don't. That's the fucking point. 523 00:28:03,380 --> 00:28:06,380 Like, well, that's crazy. How are you going to start a 524 00:28:06,380 --> 00:28:09,540 business based off that? Like your gut had to believe it, 525 00:28:09,540 --> 00:28:11,980 right? 100% man like you, you've got to 526 00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:15,460 have. The feeling and like it all goes 527 00:28:15,460 --> 00:28:17,740 in unison. So I'm a big believer in the 528 00:28:17,740 --> 00:28:20,340 entrepreneurship component for for me and for you it sounds 529 00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:24,740 like as well. So how does your framework work 530 00:28:24,740 --> 00:28:26,660 exactly? Like when when people come to 531 00:28:26,660 --> 00:28:29,580 you, like what? What is your avatar, so to 532 00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:31,220 speak, of a client that comes to you? 533 00:28:31,220 --> 00:28:33,420 They're wanting to improve upon their current life standing. 534 00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:37,500 They've got emotional distress, they've got lack of action. 535 00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:41,910 Like, who is the typical avatar and what are the steps look like 536 00:28:41,910 --> 00:28:43,390 to getting them to the next level? 537 00:28:44,510 --> 00:28:46,950 Great question. You know, it's probably 2 538 00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:50,510 primary avatars, the one I mentioned, The two kind of I 539 00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:54,670 mentioned earlier, I'll get guys a lot of them. 540 00:28:54,670 --> 00:28:57,430 And perhaps it's because my first book was about, you know, 541 00:28:58,030 --> 00:29:01,630 using your divorce to change and up level your life. 542 00:29:02,110 --> 00:29:07,250 And a lot of men come to consciousness like the the 543 00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:11,210 getting hit by the the two by four of a divorce is what wakes 544 00:29:11,210 --> 00:29:14,370 them up. Like suddenly they realize, oh 545 00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:18,890 shit, I've just been skating along or I've been burying my 546 00:29:18,890 --> 00:29:22,610 problems and now here I am on rock bottom because my wife just 547 00:29:22,610 --> 00:29:25,130 left. I'm living in a studio, you 548 00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:27,970 know, I got to pay mortgage on on their house and I got to pay 549 00:29:27,970 --> 00:29:30,450 alimony and blah blah, blah. I've just woken up. 550 00:29:31,170 --> 00:29:34,330 I get that guy a lot. Do you know the statistics on 551 00:29:34,330 --> 00:29:39,760 divorce by chance of? It's like more than 50% or 552 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,360 something, right around 50% of marriages this day and age in 553 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,320 the divorce, I think, right? It's like 56. 554 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,320 Yeah, so like the obesity percentage of the American 555 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,000 population that is considered obese and the percentage of the 556 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,200 American population whose marriages in the divorce are 557 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,760 both north of 50%, which are two staggeringly sad statistics. 558 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:07,440 Yeah, second divorce. That's crazy crazy. 559 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:09,640 Rob is like 73. And what that's not even taking 560 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,760 into account though and this is where I also get a lot of men is 561 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,720 Oh no, I can't afford to get divorced or we're not going to 562 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,080 get divorced because of the kids. 563 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,560 But I am miserable, right. So so if to answer your 564 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,920 question, so the avatars are that's one. 565 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,760 The second is the one I mentioned. 566 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,830 Prior is like a younger guy, mid 20s, early 30s, kind of like 567 00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:36,510 like maybe a little bit of a failure to thrive or lack of 568 00:30:36,510 --> 00:30:39,910 motivation. Most for the younger guys, 569 00:30:39,910 --> 00:30:42,030 they're lost. That's really it. 570 00:30:42,030 --> 00:30:44,070 Like, I don't know what to do with myself as a man. 571 00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:46,110 I don't really know who I am as a man. 572 00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:48,630 I don't what it know. I don't know what it means to be 573 00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:51,870 a man. And then the older guys, it's 574 00:30:51,870 --> 00:30:53,950 the I I know what it is to be a man. 575 00:30:53,950 --> 00:30:56,910 But that needs to get rewritten, right? 576 00:30:56,910 --> 00:30:59,590 If you look on the front and the back of the book, on the front 577 00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:03,370 is the gorilla, on the back is the Buddha and I had so the 578 00:31:03,370 --> 00:31:09,010 primal masculine or the divine masculine, the older guy, he's 579 00:31:09,010 --> 00:31:11,210 primal, he's, he's gone out there and kicked ass. 580 00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:13,050 He's made money. He's built companies. 581 00:31:13,170 --> 00:31:16,050 He's, you know, he's got kids. He knows, he knows, he knows who 582 00:31:16,050 --> 00:31:18,090 he is. He doesn't know how to feel. 583 00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:21,410 He doesn't know how to be in relationship. 584 00:31:21,850 --> 00:31:26,050 He doesn't understand that emotion is actually the glue of 585 00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:29,330 relationship. So this is a guy that we we get 586 00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:31,490 in and go, hey, how do you feel? Is like, I don't know. 587 00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:35,550 When was the last time you expressed anything but facts and 588 00:31:35,550 --> 00:31:38,710 logic to your wife? I I never have. 589 00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:40,070 Well, no wonder she's going to leave. 590 00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:44,910 She thrives off of emotion. She thrives off of feeling. 591 00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:47,510 Right. And then we take the younger guy 592 00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:49,110 and go, cool. What are you going to do with 593 00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:50,550 yourself? I don't know. 594 00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:52,670 What do you want to do? I don't know. 595 00:31:53,790 --> 00:31:55,750 OK, well we need to sort this through. 596 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,520 So the first thing, the sort of analysis is, are you way over on 597 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,680 the primal side and you need some more emotional 598 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,240 intelligence, consciousness divine, for lack of a better 599 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,000 term, or are you way over here on the emotional intelligence, 600 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,680 feeling divine side and we need to get you a little more primal. 601 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,560 And So what the very first thing I do, and I think this is a 602 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:24,320 huge, huge, huge piece that so many men don't have, is we get 603 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:32,170 them around other men. We are so isolated as dudes or 604 00:32:32,170 --> 00:32:35,210 we have these very, very superficial relationships. 605 00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:39,490 So you ask a lot of guys, do you have eight people that you could 606 00:32:39,490 --> 00:32:43,850 call at 2:00 in the morning when shit hit the fan and they're 607 00:32:43,850 --> 00:32:46,250 like, most of them will say, like, I don't have even one or 608 00:32:46,250 --> 00:32:52,890 two, like, OK, we need, we need to change that. #2 I want you, 609 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,200 the stoic 50 year old dude is about to get divorced, to watch 610 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,200 a guy who has emotional intelligence, who understands 611 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,880 how to be vulnerable, understands when to be 612 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,520 vulnerable. I want to I want you to watch 613 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,560 him do that. I want to watch. 614 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:15,440 I want you to watch him share the realness of like, fuck, this 615 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,560 bad thing happened to me. I'm, I'm struggling right now 616 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,760 like it's OK to actually say those words. 617 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,200 I want you to experience what that's like, to be in 618 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,520 relationship with another man who's being real and honest with 619 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,360 you because the word vulnerable throws a lot of people off. 620 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,840 So we just say what what's honest, how you doing, you're 621 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,640 not doing okay, be honest about that. 622 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,440 Then we take the younger guy or the guy that's all feeling based 623 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,000 and we put him with another dude who's out there kicking ass in 624 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,520 the world who's saying see this guy, he's got a vision, he's got 625 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,880 a purpose, he's got goals, he's got discipline. 626 00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:56,110 This is why it's kind of trophy, probably like the the cold 627 00:33:56,110 --> 00:33:59,910 shower thing and you know Jordan Peterson, make your bed jocko, 628 00:33:59,910 --> 00:34:04,750 get up at 4:30 that that really appeals to the younger 629 00:34:04,750 --> 00:34:08,870 demographic because no one said like, hey, you got to get out 630 00:34:08,870 --> 00:34:11,310 there and start like doing some shit with yourself. 631 00:34:12,989 --> 00:34:16,190 So first thing we do is is is like get them in a group with 632 00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:19,230 other people. Men learn by modeling. 633 00:34:19,590 --> 00:34:21,070 We see it. We can do it. 634 00:34:21,610 --> 00:34:25,929 And why do you think there's been a decline in that tight 635 00:34:25,929 --> 00:34:29,650 knit man to man relationship? Do you think it's because of 636 00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:32,929 social media and it just becomes easier to be superficial? 637 00:34:33,969 --> 00:34:38,850 What do you think the catalyst is for that lack of just true 638 00:34:38,850 --> 00:34:41,330 camaraderie and friendship like there seems to have been in the 639 00:34:41,330 --> 00:34:45,610 past? This is controversial, but I'll 640 00:34:45,610 --> 00:34:51,489 say it I think the late 90s, early 2000s, like the worst and 641 00:34:51,489 --> 00:34:55,210 and and I grew up then, so I can say it like the fear of being 642 00:34:55,210 --> 00:34:59,250 gay. Yeah, it's a biggie, right? 643 00:34:59,250 --> 00:35:03,050 Like I say to my male friends, I say to the fucking president of 644 00:35:03,050 --> 00:35:05,970 my company because I've known him for years and he's like, 645 00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:08,090 he's a brother. I'll be like, I love you, you 646 00:35:08,090 --> 00:35:09,410 know, get off on a call like, love you, man. 647 00:35:09,410 --> 00:35:11,810 Have a great weekend like that is. 648 00:35:11,890 --> 00:35:15,010 And I have zero, like, attraction to that dude. 649 00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:18,030 Yeah, zero. He's got like a £600 deadlift by 650 00:35:18,070 --> 00:35:22,070 the way. It's like that fear I think was 651 00:35:22,070 --> 00:35:25,870 first. So what we did is that we 652 00:35:25,870 --> 00:35:28,910 outsourced our emotion to women. That's what we were taught. 653 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:32,950 Hey, if I tell my buddy, hey I'm if my if I cry in my buddy's 654 00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:38,030 arms, anyone see that like gay. So that's part one. 655 00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:41,070 So that taught me take the only time I'm allowed to be 656 00:35:41,070 --> 00:35:43,910 emotionally expressive is with women. 657 00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:48,270 Then what happens is I may cry in front of Susan, who then 658 00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:51,230 goes, wow, you're kind of a puss and and breaks up with me. 659 00:35:51,470 --> 00:35:54,870 And I've now learned I can never show emotion to anybody. 660 00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:59,630 I can't share anything. I have to keep it to myself, 661 00:36:00,990 --> 00:36:02,270 right? Because if I do it with guys, 662 00:36:02,270 --> 00:36:04,990 I'm going to be viewed one way. If I do it with women, I'm going 663 00:36:04,990 --> 00:36:07,150 to be viewed as weak. I'm going to be viewed as weak 664 00:36:07,150 --> 00:36:10,230 across the board. Now you said the magic 2 words, 665 00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:12,190 which I think are such a blessing. 666 00:36:12,190 --> 00:36:14,470 And I've also turned our society on its head. 667 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:21,600 Social media. Not only is it social media, but 668 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:27,120 we have a younger generation specifically that has learned 669 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:33,360 how to only have relationship through technology, right? 670 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,840 And then you don't express emotion through text. 671 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,960 You don't really share like real shit through text, right? 672 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,040 Here's a crazy story. I was. 673 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,400 I was leaving Jiu Jitsu the other day and one of the guys I 674 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:52,320 was training with was joking that his 16 year old son doesn't 675 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,640 want his driver's license. And I was like, what? 676 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,200 What do you mean he doesn't want his driver's license? 677 00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:59,200 He's like, yeah, none of his friends wanna drive. 678 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,040 I was like, what do you how old are you, Rob? 679 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,760 Yeah. 3131, okay. So maybe this was you're you're 680 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,320 probably like, you're you're just out of it. 681 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,080 But when I was 15, turning 16, like that was the number one 682 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,520 priority because it was freedom. Because that meant I got to get 683 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,200 five guys in a car and we drive around all night pretending to 684 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,360 be cool and didn't matter. But like, that's how we got 685 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,960 together. And so I was like, well, what 686 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,520 did these guys do? I asked the guy about his son. 687 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,440 He's like, oh, they're just all on like FaceTime, all night 688 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,080 together. I was like, oh, they don't need 689 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,320 to be in the same room. But man, I don't know about you. 690 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,840 Some of the the most, like, best relationships of my life were 691 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,280 built sitting in someone's basement, you know, fucking off, 692 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,640 listening to music, drinking beer when we shouldn't have 693 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,480 been, you know, going hiking, going camping, like doing stuff 694 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,040 together. And so I think that combo or 695 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:05,550 that trifecta of sharing what's real being viewed as weak plus 696 00:38:05,550 --> 00:38:13,310 tech where we now so many guys get 80% of their emotional 697 00:38:13,310 --> 00:38:20,230 community, camaraderie, sexual needs met via via technology 698 00:38:21,070 --> 00:38:25,670 that they're not willing to go the extra 20% which requires 699 00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:29,160 them to leave their houses. That makes sense. 700 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,680 That makes total sense. I feel very blessed because 701 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,200 like, I've got, I don't know, I've got a family farm that I've 702 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,400 grown up with, been our family for four or five generations. 703 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,200 And all of my childhood memories, like really good 704 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,040 memories to high school and college and what not, was 705 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,960 getting the guys down the farm, shooting guns, blowing things 706 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,040 up, drinking way too much beer. Like that was all things that 707 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,480 kind of built. Like it wasn't necessarily the 708 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,880 healthiest outlet of my time, but it was primitive, It was 709 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,430 pristine. It was beautiful, yeah. 710 00:38:58,430 --> 00:39:00,830 And it was for the time, it was probably healthy. 711 00:39:01,110 --> 00:39:03,110 Like it like what it what it built was healthy. 712 00:39:03,110 --> 00:39:05,310 It built camaraderie. They built brotherhood. 713 00:39:05,310 --> 00:39:07,910 It built laughter. It built connection. 714 00:39:08,910 --> 00:39:11,150 Like, I bet if you reached out to any of those dudes, like, 715 00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:13,030 hey, remember that time we were on the farm shooting that, you 716 00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:13,910 know, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I. 717 00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:16,190 Remember 100% one of his birthdays today. 718 00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:18,630 So I just texted him before we jumped on his podcast and told 719 00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:20,350 him I love him, man. And exactly. 720 00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:22,710 There's no doubt that I'm not gay and he's not gay. 721 00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:26,480 So it's like, it just works, You know, it's it's it's the truth 722 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,360 and you. But you guys built the 723 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:33,800 relationship in a real space outside where you where you 724 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,200 could, like see each other, touch each other, hug each 725 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,000 other. Like there it was real. 726 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,560 Drink beer, laugh, clap each other on the back, wrestle a 727 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,760 little bit. Like that was real. 728 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,760 And so it's really unfortunate to actually talk to young men 729 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,880 and and share that, like, hey, have you ever thought about 730 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,120 this? Like, imagine five of your 731 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,340 buddies out camping. Yeah, no, like it'll it'll never 732 00:39:56,340 --> 00:39:58,180 happen. Like we just text each other. 733 00:39:58,740 --> 00:40:03,620 So so you bring these guys of two different spectrums together 734 00:40:04,620 --> 00:40:07,740 physically, like this is all done in person or how how is 735 00:40:07,820 --> 00:40:10,580 frustrated? Yeah, we, I mean, we do have an 736 00:40:10,580 --> 00:40:14,140 online platform, but we also have live groups all over the 737 00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:18,660 world and say like, come to a group, come to a meeting and a 738 00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:21,740 meeting may be like 8 guys are going hiking this weekend. 739 00:40:22,410 --> 00:40:24,290 And at the top of the hike, they're actually going to have a 740 00:40:24,290 --> 00:40:28,690 real conversation, right? Like there there is, there is an 741 00:40:28,690 --> 00:40:30,410 element. It's not just like, oh, all you 742 00:40:30,410 --> 00:40:33,890 need to do is hike, right? There are elements of like, hey, 743 00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:38,330 what's really going on with you? Where are you struggling? 744 00:40:38,890 --> 00:40:42,090 Where are you, where are you thriving? 745 00:40:43,730 --> 00:40:47,010 Like that needs to be celebrated, right? 746 00:40:47,010 --> 00:40:50,730 This is something that's that's really missing from a lot of 747 00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:54,190 men's lives. I heard Martin Shaw talk about 748 00:40:54,190 --> 00:40:55,190 this. He said that there's a 749 00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:58,950 difference between like a blessing from an older person 750 00:40:59,390 --> 00:41:04,190 and a blessing is when an older person has seen you struggle and 751 00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:07,750 said, hey brother, I see you. Like, I know you just went 752 00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:11,790 through that thing and that's a different, like, level of 753 00:41:11,790 --> 00:41:17,710 nourishment than a like on a social media pic, right? 754 00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:21,960 Or a buddy saying, like, kind of joking with you, but but not 755 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,760 they're like, oh, you really kicked ass, wimp, you know, or 756 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,560 something. It's like there's nourishment is 757 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,480 a word that I really like to play with talking about all of 758 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,960 this, especially to to an audience that understands 759 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,240 fitness, right? Like a like on a social media 760 00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:43,920 post is like a bite of cup noodle, but someone pulling you 761 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,480 aside in person, putting their arm around you and saying, like, 762 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,980 brother, I see you, you're a great dad. 763 00:41:50,420 --> 00:41:52,740 I watch how you are with your kids. 764 00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:56,100 Like, imagine the difference between that, like you posting a 765 00:41:56,100 --> 00:42:00,940 picture with your kids online and someone liking it, or a 766 00:42:00,940 --> 00:42:04,180 mentor, an older guy in your community pulling you aside and 767 00:42:04,660 --> 00:42:07,140 they're like, man, I'm watching you, you're doing really good as 768 00:42:07,140 --> 00:42:09,260 a dad. Night and day difference. 769 00:42:09,620 --> 00:42:11,740 Night and day, right? Yeah. 770 00:42:11,740 --> 00:42:13,900 Night and day difference. Do you have. 771 00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:17,660 That's a lot of the process. Do you have kids, Driver? 772 00:42:18,340 --> 00:42:19,340 I don't. I don't. 773 00:42:19,820 --> 00:42:21,940 What do you think? Like, what's your opinion? 774 00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:24,500 You may not have kids yourself, but I feel like because you're 775 00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:26,700 working with so many guys that likely do. 776 00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:33,340 What is your stance on parenting in the current day and age Like? 777 00:42:33,340 --> 00:42:37,260 Do you feel like that is where a lot of this is going sideways? 778 00:42:39,180 --> 00:42:41,100 I do. And I'll say that again, like 779 00:42:41,140 --> 00:42:44,220 the asterisks by everything I say is I don't have kids. 780 00:42:44,460 --> 00:42:46,740 But what I have seen specifically, and since we're 781 00:42:46,740 --> 00:42:51,820 talking about men, is that the role of fatherhood has been 782 00:42:52,060 --> 00:42:57,260 disregarded in society at large. It's like we don't you don't 783 00:42:57,260 --> 00:43:00,460 really even need Dad's, You just need Dad's money. 784 00:43:00,940 --> 00:43:04,260 Dad can work all day and then go hide out in the man cave all all 785 00:43:04,260 --> 00:43:06,620 night. Like, that's kind of okay 786 00:43:07,180 --> 00:43:12,740 societally, but it's a tragedy to the individual child. 787 00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:16,430 That child will grow up missing something. 788 00:43:16,430 --> 00:43:20,910 Like it's there's a Direct Line of nourishment that comes from 789 00:43:20,910 --> 00:43:25,070 having an active father, whether it's to a daughter or to a son. 790 00:43:25,830 --> 00:43:28,150 Yeah, I agree. I think it's a massive Rob. 791 00:43:28,150 --> 00:43:30,790 I think it's massive. There's a big issue. 792 00:43:31,230 --> 00:43:34,710 Being a dad and being a parent like the Exactly get to parent 793 00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:38,310 your children exactly right. Like when I was growing up. 794 00:43:38,350 --> 00:43:42,360 A lot of the dads, and God bless them, like the the society at 795 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,480 the time was like, your job is just to work. 796 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,440 That's it. Like if you just work and 797 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,800 there's food on the table and there's a roof over their heads 798 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,880 and you can pay for education, you've done a great job. 799 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,840 Now what we're what we know is like, oh, that dad actually has 800 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:04,040 to be engaged with the child. He has to teach the son how to 801 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,600 be a man, right. Otherwise, the son learns from 802 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,620 the mother about to be a man, and that's not that's not her 803 00:44:11,620 --> 00:44:14,380 job and so she cannot do that job. 804 00:44:14,860 --> 00:44:21,020 Or and we can look at how many households don't have a father 805 00:44:21,020 --> 00:44:24,460 present in them. And yes, Sir, that also means 806 00:44:24,460 --> 00:44:27,020 there's some socioeconomic challenges most often. 807 00:44:27,740 --> 00:44:30,700 But even if there aren't socioeconomic challenges, that 808 00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:34,820 child will have a like an exponentially higher rate of 809 00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:39,620 challenges for across the board. Health challenges, obesity 810 00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:42,500 challenges, problems with authority, problems in 811 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:45,260 education, problems in relationship problems with 812 00:44:45,260 --> 00:44:48,180 addiction. Like we you need the masculine 813 00:44:48,180 --> 00:44:53,020 energy in a household. I think it's a big, big issue 814 00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:55,460 that we're still tiptoeing around. 815 00:44:55,940 --> 00:45:01,500 It's weird that it's such a strange, like, polarizing topic 816 00:45:01,540 --> 00:45:03,300 though. Like, I feel like like Jordan 817 00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,140 Peterson has done a really good job at eloquently illustrating 818 00:45:07,180 --> 00:45:13,570 these different needs. Male and female and it it's it's 819 00:45:13,570 --> 00:45:15,490 very controversial. Like, there's a lot of people up 820 00:45:15,490 --> 00:45:18,890 in arms about it, but I don't like a lot of people dislike 821 00:45:18,890 --> 00:45:22,570 Jordan Peterson immensely. But I've listened to his 822 00:45:22,570 --> 00:45:25,410 podcast, I've, I've read his books, and there's not really 823 00:45:25,410 --> 00:45:26,890 been anything. He said that I'm like, man, 824 00:45:26,890 --> 00:45:30,610 that's incredibly far out there. Like everything he says seems to 825 00:45:30,610 --> 00:45:36,010 make pretty good sense. He's calling out the insanity 826 00:45:36,010 --> 00:45:40,510 that is prevalent right now, like you listed an obesity 827 00:45:40,510 --> 00:45:44,590 statistic. My background is in medicine, 828 00:45:45,470 --> 00:45:48,550 and I have a master's degree in traditional Chinese medicine. 829 00:45:48,830 --> 00:45:53,150 I was licensed by the state of California as primary care 830 00:45:53,350 --> 00:45:55,670 means. I could be people's physicians. 831 00:45:56,510 --> 00:46:01,910 And yet, if I say, hey, having a like this much extra body fat on 832 00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:06,870 anybody has the propensity. Not a guarantee, but the 833 00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:11,640 propensity for these four or five biological issues, these 834 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,240 four or five disease pathways will most likely show up. 835 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,160 If you are over a certain weight, I will get skewered 836 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,080 publicly. How dare you? 837 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,280 Why are you fat phobic? Why are you racist? 838 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,600 Why are you whatever everything. Phobic. 839 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,480 Why do you hate humans? Like I don't like? 840 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,120 We've just lost our minds in 2023. 841 00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:34,460 Like, think of what you're asking. 842 00:46:34,460 --> 00:46:37,740 Like, why is it a weird notion to say that two parents in a 843 00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:40,900 household will most likely do better than one parent? 844 00:46:41,060 --> 00:46:44,260 And of course we're taking the asterisks of, like, one of those 845 00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:47,100 parents being a sociopath or psychopath out of the picture. 846 00:46:47,340 --> 00:46:49,620 Yeah, it's just it's it's weird, man. 847 00:46:49,620 --> 00:46:52,260 I don't fucking know. That's why I named my movement 848 00:46:52,260 --> 00:46:55,220 uncivilized. Because I felt like we've gotten 849 00:46:55,220 --> 00:46:58,860 so weirdly civilized that we're like, hey, all the stuff that we 850 00:46:58,860 --> 00:47:01,700 actually know to be fact that's now controversial. 851 00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:05,310 Yeah, it's it's strange because like who am I to say that my way 852 00:47:05,310 --> 00:47:08,230 is better than anybody else's? I mean I'm a pretty live and let 853 00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:13,070 live kind of guy, but I look at my relationship with my wife and 854 00:47:13,110 --> 00:47:15,350 it works really well. Like we have a very solid 855 00:47:15,350 --> 00:47:19,790 relationship and we have very clear defined roles as to, you 856 00:47:19,790 --> 00:47:23,950 know, what her expectations are as a mother, as a wife, what 857 00:47:23,950 --> 00:47:25,790 mine are as a father and a husband. 858 00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:30,070 And like I guess it it could be viewed as oldfashioned. 859 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,920 But like she's totally receptive and respective towards that's 860 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,720 what she wants and and thrives with. 861 00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:39,000 That's what I thrive with and we're very cohesive and we're 862 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,240 able to just exponentially grow at a much faster rate than if we 863 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:47,640 tried to step on each other's toes and fill that void doing 864 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,120 what is better determined for the other person to do. 865 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:56,470 Like, I I don't know why that is such a controversial thing and 866 00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:59,510 that's that's probably for people who punch a girl above 867 00:47:59,510 --> 00:48:03,150 our weight class. I think what needed to happen 868 00:48:03,590 --> 00:48:08,030 and did happen was that the option for choice needed to be 869 00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:10,870 there. So if you and your wife wanted 870 00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:13,750 to have the opposing relationship where she's the 871 00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:16,470 breadwinner and she's the one out crushing it in business and 872 00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:20,190 you're the stay at home dad, amazing, that's that's perfectly 873 00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:21,370 cool. That's great. 874 00:48:21,370 --> 00:48:24,370 If that works for the for a couple, amazing. 875 00:48:24,610 --> 00:48:28,650 No shame, no blame, no finger pointing, no less than no 876 00:48:28,650 --> 00:48:31,370 whatever. But the challenge is we opened 877 00:48:31,370 --> 00:48:35,850 up all of these options and said if now, if you choose to do the 878 00:48:35,850 --> 00:48:38,930 original option, there's something wrong with you. 879 00:48:39,570 --> 00:48:42,090 Yeah, I think people need to be objective. 880 00:48:42,090 --> 00:48:44,770 Like if what you're doing is completely counter to what I'm 881 00:48:44,770 --> 00:48:46,890 doing and it's working for you, I mean, freaking rock on. 882 00:48:46,890 --> 00:48:48,090 Keep doing it. Do it. 883 00:48:48,210 --> 00:48:50,450 But if you are incredibly unhappy. 884 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,720 Unfit your relationships on the rocks and everything's in 885 00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:56,680 terminal, then I think it's imperative that you be very 886 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,920 objective with that. And I mean, what is the 887 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,760 definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and 888 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,920 over and expecting the same different results, like that's 889 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,960 likely not your best trajectory. Yeah, I mean, we've gotten away 890 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,720 from just the evidence of reality. 891 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,520 Like when I get those guys. Remember I said I'll get guys 892 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,480 will show up and be like, oh, I'm fine, I'll be cool, Let's 893 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,760 let's peel back a layer and look at the evidence. 894 00:49:20,730 --> 00:49:24,850 Oh you're not fine. People who are fine don't drink 895 00:49:24,850 --> 00:49:28,130 every night, don't have a small coke habit, aren't jerking off 896 00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:30,370 to porn 2 hours a day even though they're married. 897 00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:33,130 Right. Do have kids that talk to them 898 00:49:33,130 --> 00:49:37,730 like this is we we've we've just show me the evidence and I'll 899 00:49:37,730 --> 00:49:41,210 show you how you're doing. Very much so that if I showed up 900 00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:44,570 to your gym and I was like, man, I am so damn strong. 901 00:49:44,610 --> 00:49:47,350 I'm one of the strongest people on Earth and you're like, cool, 902 00:49:47,350 --> 00:49:50,470 let's let's put you down on the bench and I get stuck under a 903 00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:56,510 £45 bar on a single Rep you're gonna be like, well. 904 00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:58,710 You may not be the strongest man in the world. 905 00:49:58,710 --> 00:50:02,190 What you're doing, what you're doing for training, it could be 906 00:50:02,190 --> 00:50:04,790 better. Let's just say perhaps the 907 00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:07,310 evidence is pointing out that you what you're doing isn't 908 00:50:07,310 --> 00:50:09,030 working. I am with you, man. 909 00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:12,670 If it works for you. I think everybody gets to design 910 00:50:13,150 --> 00:50:15,110 their whole life however they want. 911 00:50:15,310 --> 00:50:18,330 Yeah, but don't challenge my evidence. 912 00:50:18,330 --> 00:50:22,770 Don't challenge my way of doing it if your evidence isn't better 913 00:50:22,770 --> 00:50:25,250 than mine. Yeah, that's a fair statement. 914 00:50:25,690 --> 00:50:28,090 So I didn't mean to derail your your protocol here. 915 00:50:28,090 --> 00:50:31,370 So you bring these guys together, you put them in unison 916 00:50:31,370 --> 00:50:35,370 so they can kind of you know model and reflect and learn from 917 00:50:35,370 --> 00:50:37,930 each other as they're on different ends of the spectrum. 918 00:50:38,290 --> 00:50:41,930 What what's next in that, in that that that time piece there. 919 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,280 I want to look at two things, Rob, Like I want to look at 920 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,560 above the surface and below the surface. 921 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,120 So if say you come in, you're like, hey, I want this life, I 922 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,800 want this vision like, and we can use the idea of like, let's 923 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,920 say you want to and I'm not you personally. 924 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,480 A guy shows up and is like, hey, I want to lose 30 pounds. 925 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,560 I'm like, cool if we let's look at above the surface and he's 926 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,400 like, I don't live within 50 miles of a gym. 927 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,320 Like the only store within a 50 mile radius is a 711. 928 00:51:13,140 --> 00:51:16,700 That's where I get my food and like, I have no access to the 929 00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:20,740 Internet and I've got 2 broken elbows like, cool above the 930 00:51:20,740 --> 00:51:22,900 surface. We need to change that. 931 00:51:23,580 --> 00:51:27,260 Like we need to change your situation so that you get where 932 00:51:27,260 --> 00:51:29,420 you want to go. So that may be cool. 933 00:51:29,420 --> 00:51:31,460 You got to move, right? You got to move closer to a gym. 934 00:51:31,460 --> 00:51:32,820 We got to get your elbows looked at. 935 00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:34,820 We got to get you understanding nutrition. 936 00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:39,380 Now say we have the same dude and he lives upstairs from a 937 00:51:39,380 --> 00:51:42,790 Gold's Gym. Across the street is a Whole 938 00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:46,510 Foods and he makes 6 figures so he can afford both. 939 00:51:47,230 --> 00:51:53,190 But what's under the surface is this huge amount of trauma right 940 00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:57,510 from his first grade teacher to his dad to his neighborhood 941 00:51:57,510 --> 00:51:59,030 kids. They all told him he was a piece 942 00:51:59,030 --> 00:52:01,350 of shit. He'd never amount to anything. 943 00:52:01,430 --> 00:52:05,230 He was worthless, right? He was always going to be a fat 944 00:52:05,230 --> 00:52:07,350 kid. Nobody likes him. 945 00:52:07,970 --> 00:52:11,210 We could, we could put all of the above ingredients in his 946 00:52:11,210 --> 00:52:12,970 face and he's he's not going to do a thing. 947 00:52:13,570 --> 00:52:17,170 We need to get what's at what's below the OR below the surface 948 00:52:17,170 --> 00:52:19,210 of the story there, the trauma there. 949 00:52:20,850 --> 00:52:23,850 So what we'll do is actually work with that guy with a 950 00:52:23,850 --> 00:52:27,810 therapist or with some coaches, someone who's got training on 951 00:52:27,810 --> 00:52:31,650 how to rewrite and renavigate that that story. 952 00:52:32,890 --> 00:52:36,610 So really, I want to look at that like above and below with 953 00:52:36,610 --> 00:52:41,090 every man who comes in and the protocol is to have that man 954 00:52:41,370 --> 00:52:43,690 start to look at. Oh man. 955 00:52:44,250 --> 00:52:47,210 OK, I have this vision, I have this purpose, but I keep getting 956 00:52:47,210 --> 00:52:49,970 tripped up by this one thing. OK, cool. 957 00:52:49,970 --> 00:52:52,490 You're self aware. You you're contemplative. 958 00:52:53,210 --> 00:52:54,330 What? What do you think it is? 959 00:52:54,330 --> 00:52:55,290 I don't know. I don't know. 960 00:52:55,290 --> 00:52:57,610 OK, cool. Let's get you into over here 961 00:52:57,610 --> 00:53:00,920 with some of our professionals who can help you navigate the 962 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,640 story of of what's tripping you up. 963 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,000 Or let's get you over here with some professionals who can help 964 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,200 you work into how do you get better resourcing to do the 965 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,200 thing that you want to do. Like I think at the at the, you 966 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,120 know I gave you the tagline, right? 967 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,440 I'd like to end the suffering in men so that we end the suffering 968 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,400 caused by men. But one of the biggest 969 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,240 sufferings in men is that they don't know what they want to do 970 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,240 with themselves. Or if they do know what they 971 00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:29,480 want to do with themselves, they don't know how. 972 00:53:30,690 --> 00:53:36,810 So I work on a very down to earth 3D level as well as and we 973 00:53:36,810 --> 00:53:39,650 can go up into the, you know, what are the masculine, feminine 974 00:53:39,650 --> 00:53:42,530 dynamics like? You know, how are you sourcing 975 00:53:42,530 --> 00:53:44,210 power? Where are you sourcing power 976 00:53:44,210 --> 00:53:46,850 from? I I speak fucking chakras. 977 00:53:46,850 --> 00:53:49,530 I went to acupuncture school. We can get to, we can get 978 00:53:49,530 --> 00:53:52,850 metaphysical, we can get spiritual if you want. 979 00:53:53,210 --> 00:53:55,890 But most guys need to start here on the ground. 980 00:53:56,970 --> 00:54:01,230 What do you want from your life? What is the life that you want 981 00:54:01,230 --> 00:54:04,350 to live? Is it yours? 982 00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:07,550 Right is. Are you the 9th generation of 983 00:54:07,550 --> 00:54:10,830 guys who who became doctors? But man, you are a fucking 984 00:54:10,830 --> 00:54:15,070 ballet dancer and an artist. Then stop trying to be a doctor 985 00:54:16,310 --> 00:54:18,510 like we need to. We need to literally get guys to 986 00:54:18,510 --> 00:54:21,190 be honest with themselves, to get some self knowledge, to get 987 00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:26,270 some introspection of what do you want from your life Now? 988 00:54:27,010 --> 00:54:31,090 If you are with us, if you are in our group, if you are on our 989 00:54:31,090 --> 00:54:35,490 team of uncivilized, you will relentlessly pursue that vision. 990 00:54:37,170 --> 00:54:39,930 You will do that through creating strong relationships. 991 00:54:39,930 --> 00:54:42,170 We're going to teach you how to be in relationship. 992 00:54:42,450 --> 00:54:46,490 That's such a big turn. It doesn't mean we're going to 993 00:54:46,490 --> 00:54:49,690 teach you how to have a lover or a girlfriend or a wife or a 994 00:54:49,690 --> 00:54:51,810 husband. Means we're going to teach you 995 00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:55,760 how to be relational. How to engage with the world, 996 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,560 how to engage with energy, how to engage with power, how to 997 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,360 engage with money, how to engage with food. 998 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,080 You have relationships with all of these things. 999 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,160 We got to tap you into your innate power. 1000 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:12,440 You as a man are are here, like literally to penetrate the world 1001 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,120 with your ideas, with your unique vision. 1002 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,160 We're going to give you permission to do that and teach 1003 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,510 you how to do that. We got to get you wrong. 1004 00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:24,630 We got to get tapped back into primal fucking energy. 1005 00:55:26,030 --> 00:55:29,310 Like when I was first coaching Rob, every one of my clients was 1006 00:55:29,310 --> 00:55:31,910 powerlifting. I would get guys from like, the 1007 00:55:31,950 --> 00:55:34,750 IT world. I would get guys like high level 1008 00:55:34,750 --> 00:55:36,510 accountants. Never been an athlete in their 1009 00:55:36,510 --> 00:55:40,150 entire lives, but their marriage is falling apart. 1010 00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:42,870 They have no sex life. Their woman's about to leave 1011 00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:45,550 them. I was like, yeah, you got to 1012 00:55:45,550 --> 00:55:46,750 meditate. You got a journal. 1013 00:55:46,750 --> 00:55:47,870 You got to do other emotional stuff. 1014 00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:52,710 You got to learn how to deadlift too, because there are lessons 1015 00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:57,030 in there specifically for you as a man, of striving, of being 1016 00:55:57,030 --> 00:56:00,390 like, I'm tired, but I got three more sets, I'm going to do it 1017 00:56:01,950 --> 00:56:03,790 right. A feeling when you walk down the 1018 00:56:03,790 --> 00:56:06,550 street, the difference of when your chin is up and your 1019 00:56:06,550 --> 00:56:10,710 shoulders are down and you're facing the world head on. 1020 00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:14,430 Or where you're collapsed and you're crumpled up in a little 1021 00:56:14,430 --> 00:56:16,830 ball and you just hope no one notices you. 1022 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,680 Does that makes sense? Yeah, I think, yeah. 1023 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,560 If you were to distill all that down to its essence, I feel like 1024 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:30,880 guys need to simply do hard shit, like, and hard shit is 1025 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,280 going to be totally relative based off of their perspective 1026 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,960 of what hardship they've gone through and done in their life 1027 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:41,960 up to that point. But guys need to fight a battle 1028 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,800 of some form or fashion on a daily basis. 1029 00:56:46,540 --> 00:56:50,340 And if they are seeking protection and safety at all 1030 00:56:50,340 --> 00:56:54,300 times and are, you know, withdrawn within themselves and 1031 00:56:54,300 --> 00:56:56,980 not willing to fight that battle, they will never likely 1032 00:56:56,980 --> 00:56:59,420 gain the confidence of perspective they need to truly 1033 00:56:59,420 --> 00:57:02,260 reach their full potential, 1000%. 1034 00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:05,140 Here's the only piece I'm going to add to it. 1035 00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:09,220 They need to do all of that in relationship. 1036 00:57:10,140 --> 00:57:11,940 So they need to do it in community. 1037 00:57:12,220 --> 00:57:13,900 They need to do it in brotherhood. 1038 00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:16,760 They need to do it with other people. 1039 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,600 I think it's one of the biggest detractors to male success and 1040 00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:27,360 one of the biggest additions to male mental health challenges is 1041 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:32,720 this sense of isolation. Yeah, I can't tell you how many 1042 00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,560 times I put on an event. I put on a workshop, I put on a 1043 00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,520 gathering where I've spent, like weeks of my life planning, 1044 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,390 practicing, teaching. Like getting ready for it and 1045 00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:48,270 then asking the guys at the end what was the most valuable part 1046 00:57:48,270 --> 00:57:52,830 of this and having them say, man, I had, I had conversations 1047 00:57:52,830 --> 00:57:55,390 over breakfast with another dude. 1048 00:57:55,390 --> 00:57:59,030 I've never done that before. I suddenly realized that men 1049 00:57:59,030 --> 00:58:01,470 could be my friends, that they weren't just competition. 1050 00:58:01,790 --> 00:58:03,550 They weren't my abusive older brother. 1051 00:58:03,830 --> 00:58:07,230 They weren't going to try to steal women from me Like I I 1052 00:58:07,230 --> 00:58:08,470 have. I have friends. 1053 00:58:08,830 --> 00:58:10,270 These guys are. They were cool. 1054 00:58:10,270 --> 00:58:13,080 They were nice to me. They were kind to me, they 1055 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,640 supported me, they held me when I cried, they high fived me when 1056 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:21,400 I won and I'm like, fuck, I shouldn't have planned so much 1057 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:26,480 and awesome like beautiful. If that's the medicine and the 1058 00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,400 nourishment that you got. Now you realize that that's out 1059 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,520 there in the world as well, right? 1060 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:38,480 I forget then you may too, that not everybody came up through. 1061 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,880 Like a gym where you can ask someone to spot you. 1062 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,360 A jiu jitsu class where the guy who just choked the shit out of 1063 00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,760 you is now going to teach you how to defend the very move he 1064 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:52,280 used against you. A CrossFit gym where we're going 1065 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:57,000 to high 5, The last person in as as heartily as we high 5, The 1066 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,680 person who won. Most people don't have that 1067 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,760 experience of any level of support. 1068 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,620 Most people and most men are in even bigger category of that. 1069 00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:16,060 In fact, they have the opposite. I started the Uncivilized 1070 00:59:16,060 --> 00:59:20,420 Nation, the actual men's group, because I had a cop reach out to 1071 00:59:20,420 --> 00:59:22,140 me. It's like 7 years ago, man. 1072 00:59:22,380 --> 00:59:23,780 And he's like, hey, I read your book. 1073 00:59:23,900 --> 00:59:26,220 I started meditating. I told the guys in my 1074 00:59:26,220 --> 00:59:29,140 department, now they're making fun of me. 1075 00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:32,460 Now they're like leaving little things on my desk and calling me 1076 00:59:32,460 --> 00:59:35,900 a pussy and this and this. And I was like, you have got to 1077 00:59:35,900 --> 00:59:40,390 be kidding me. In a profession that has your 1078 00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:43,670 addiction and suicide and mental health challenges, you are 1079 00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:46,790 getting shamed for meditating by the very people that are 1080 00:59:46,790 --> 00:59:50,790 supposed to support you. And it was it was a light bulb 1081 00:59:50,790 --> 00:59:56,190 moment for me because I went OK, this is, this is probably a lot 1082 00:59:56,190 --> 01:00:01,230 of men's experience that we live in different worlds where I'm 1083 01:00:01,230 --> 01:00:03,990 like, dude, you just made an extra $1,000,000 last year. 1084 01:00:04,590 --> 01:00:07,070 Fuck yeah. Good for you. 1085 01:00:07,070 --> 01:00:09,710 Let me take you out to dinner. Let me high five you. 1086 01:00:09,710 --> 01:00:12,190 Let me hug you like you just hit a PR. 1087 01:00:12,670 --> 01:00:15,830 Fuck, yeah. Like most people succeed in 1088 01:00:15,830 --> 01:00:18,830 silence and suffer in silence. Men specifically. 1089 01:00:19,310 --> 01:00:22,430 Yeah, 100% man. So, So talk to me about this 1090 01:00:22,430 --> 01:00:24,750 group specifically, people listen, if they're interested in 1091 01:00:24,750 --> 01:00:27,630 jumping on this, getting involved, getting intertwined, 1092 01:00:27,630 --> 01:00:29,590 building relationships, what does that look like? 1093 01:00:29,590 --> 01:00:33,870 Tans like, do they sign up on a on the website, like how does 1094 01:00:33,870 --> 01:00:37,390 that structured? Yeah, yeah, we do openings twice 1095 01:00:37,390 --> 01:00:41,030 a year, Uncivilized nations, about 300 men right now. 1096 01:00:41,030 --> 01:00:44,750 We do have live groups that are like all over the US, couple in 1097 01:00:44,750 --> 01:00:46,470 Europe. So basically just go to 1098 01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:52,190 manuncivilized.com/thenation or reach out to me Trevor at man on 1099 01:00:52,190 --> 01:00:55,470 civilized.com or hit me up on Instagram and we you. 1100 01:00:55,470 --> 01:00:59,150 We do 2 openings a year because we run guys through a six week 1101 01:00:59,470 --> 01:01:03,330 like class 1st of like. It's basically like the same of, 1102 01:01:03,330 --> 01:01:06,130 you know, joining any gym, like this is what a hinge is, this is 1103 01:01:06,130 --> 01:01:09,250 what a squad is. But for us it's more of like 1104 01:01:09,250 --> 01:01:14,650 this is what resistance is. This is what connection means. 1105 01:01:14,970 --> 01:01:17,890 This is what meditation is. This is why you want to get in 1106 01:01:17,890 --> 01:01:20,570 touch with your feelings. This is what a cold shower feels 1107 01:01:20,570 --> 01:01:21,970 like. You don't like that good. 1108 01:01:22,210 --> 01:01:25,970 That's what doing hard shit is. And you're on a team with other 1109 01:01:25,970 --> 01:01:28,450 guys like these are your brothers throughout the journey. 1110 01:01:29,230 --> 01:01:31,950 So we like to get people going, you know, in a group. 1111 01:01:31,950 --> 01:01:34,470 But we've also had people join. We haven't joined throughout the 1112 01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:37,230 year as long as they know somebody in the group. 1113 01:01:37,230 --> 01:01:38,790 So we know the kind of guy that they are. 1114 01:01:39,470 --> 01:01:42,510 And then every month, Rob, we put on different challenges, 1115 01:01:42,670 --> 01:01:46,870 have him read a different book. I bring a specific teacher in, 1116 01:01:47,830 --> 01:01:50,150 you know, to talk about whatever it may be. 1117 01:01:50,990 --> 01:01:53,990 This year we're breaking down for archetypes. 1118 01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:57,230 Each quarter we're looking at the king, the warrior, the 1119 01:01:57,230 --> 01:02:00,320 magician and the lover. And right now we're in the 1120 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,880 magician archetype. So this month I have a buddy of 1121 01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:07,960 mine who's like photographed like Jayz and Taylor Swift and 1122 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,880 all these famous people. He's like this freak artist. 1123 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,920 And I talked to these men about how you created your life, how 1124 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:20,000 you went from a guy who grew up in a very Christian home, even 1125 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,840 though you weren't Christian, and decided to go against your 1126 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,400 parents wishes of you becoming a priest and you became a 1127 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,400 photographer. Now there's a million damn 1128 01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,440 photographers who haven't photographed Jayz and all these 1129 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,200 famous people. How did you make that magic in 1130 01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,840 your life? Like that's what we're working 1131 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,120 on this month. And truthfully, at the end of 1132 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,880 this week we have a big live gathering here in Denver. 1133 01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,280 Guys are showing up from all over the world and we're not 1134 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:52,160 doing anything of importance. We're racing go karts. 1135 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,760 We're going hiking. We're having a BBQ. 1136 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,290 You know, like we're just enjoying each other. 1137 01:02:58,290 --> 01:03:00,370 We're just hanging out. We're having very real 1138 01:03:00,370 --> 01:03:02,810 conversations. But it's not teaching based or 1139 01:03:03,170 --> 01:03:07,450 like, you know, progress based. It's just, man, I look forward 1140 01:03:07,450 --> 01:03:09,010 to this every year. Like let's just get a bunch of 1141 01:03:09,010 --> 01:03:11,410 really cool dudes in the same room or in the same house and 1142 01:03:11,410 --> 01:03:13,770 hang out, you know? So there's a bit of that too. 1143 01:03:14,010 --> 01:03:16,890 And you do the meet ups like that, that's every quarter. 1144 01:03:16,890 --> 01:03:20,370 You send the big meet up We do every year. 1145 01:03:20,730 --> 01:03:23,570 But a lot of the small groups will meet every two to three 1146 01:03:23,570 --> 01:03:27,670 weeks depending on on like they get to set the frequency. 1147 01:03:28,110 --> 01:03:29,350 No. Depending on if it's a bunch of 1148 01:03:29,350 --> 01:03:31,390 guys who travel for work, it may be once a month. 1149 01:03:31,390 --> 01:03:34,790 We have some groups that meet every week and it's just 1150 01:03:34,790 --> 01:03:38,710 bringing forward, you know, like we have a protocol for them. 1151 01:03:39,030 --> 01:03:41,430 But a lot of times you may have a guy that's like going through 1152 01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:45,070 a divorce or a guy that's like selling his company or a guy 1153 01:03:45,070 --> 01:03:47,830 who's got a sick kid or a guy who's, you know, like his 1154 01:03:47,830 --> 01:03:50,590 parents are dying. Like there's real shit. 1155 01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:53,990 So it's I just, I want to make it clear like it's not just a 1156 01:03:53,990 --> 01:03:56,830 support group. You also have guys that are 1157 01:03:56,830 --> 01:04:00,710 like, I'm writing my 4th book and it's it's hard, you know, 1158 01:04:00,990 --> 01:04:04,790 like I just, I just need to know you guys are here or like, hey 1159 01:04:04,790 --> 01:04:06,750 us as a group. We have a group that's like 1160 01:04:06,750 --> 01:04:09,710 doing the 10X is is easier than two X. 1161 01:04:09,710 --> 01:04:12,630 You ever read that book? I have not no amazing, amazing 1162 01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:15,550 book and they've just all collectively been like, cool. 1163 01:04:15,550 --> 01:04:19,310 Let's see if we can't 10X our income and do it relationally 1164 01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:21,680 right? Like do it in community with 1165 01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,640 each other like supporting each other through it you have. 1166 01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:25,520 It's basically like a mastermind, like we have that 1167 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,640 too. Yeah, there, there's something 1168 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,640 special. You can't even put it into words 1169 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:33,040 about the power that comes out of just simply getting a 1170 01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:37,320 relatively small group of guys together to just simply be 1171 01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:42,120 together without any, you know, preordained goal or mission or 1172 01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,080 Lesson plan. Like just simply getting them 1173 01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:48,050 together outside their normal. Environment, their normal 1174 01:04:48,050 --> 01:04:50,290 routine and just letting the magic happen. 1175 01:04:50,850 --> 01:04:53,570 Like every year I I've got a hunting group that I take people 1176 01:04:53,570 --> 01:04:56,410 in the Quito space. You know, these are doctors, 1177 01:04:56,410 --> 01:04:59,050 athletes, professionals of some form or fashion. 1178 01:04:59,050 --> 01:05:01,130 We all just get out in the woods and we just hunt. 1179 01:05:01,450 --> 01:05:05,810 But since we're at a campfire at the end of the day, cooking food 1180 01:05:05,810 --> 01:05:09,490 that we've killed and just talking about our lives like, 1181 01:05:10,130 --> 01:05:12,690 you know, you hear about the relationships, you hear about 1182 01:05:12,690 --> 01:05:14,570 the parenting struggles you hear about. 1183 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,800 The career path pitfalls. Like you hear about all these 1184 01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,360 things and you connect in a way that you never would be able to 1185 01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:26,200 over a Instagram DM or Facebook Messenger and that. 1186 01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,520 Like those. The moments I freaking live for, 1187 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,400 man, right? And when you said in the 1188 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,000 beginning like this, that's been happening since the beginning of 1189 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,600 time? Yeah, like there's a through. 1190 01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,920 I just got chills again. There's a through line of 1000 1191 01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:44,600 years ago, I guarantee you a group of dudes sitting around 1192 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,840 the fire, eating food that they killed, grunting each to each 1193 01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:53,040 other about challenges they have with their women, challenges 1194 01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,400 they have with their bodies, challenges of getting older, 1195 01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,480 challenges of not getting, you know, like all the things. 1196 01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:04,360 It's just real. It's raw, it's real, and it's 1197 01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:08,060 relational. Like that is the essence of what 1198 01:06:08,060 --> 01:06:11,820 we do, and that is the essence of the medicine that men need 1199 01:06:12,060 --> 01:06:16,980 now more than ever when they live in a sterile, fake, 1200 01:06:17,420 --> 01:06:20,500 isolated world. Completely agree ma'am. 1201 01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:22,980 Completely agree. Where are you located? 1202 01:06:23,860 --> 01:06:26,140 I'm just north of Denver. I'm in between Denver and 1203 01:06:26,140 --> 01:06:28,580 Boulder in a town called Westminster, Co. 1204 01:06:28,860 --> 01:06:30,900 Nice, nice. I got a ton of traveling come up 1205 01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:32,780 this year, man, but I may actually be going through that 1206 01:06:32,780 --> 01:06:34,820 area at some point. We need to stop. 1207 01:06:34,820 --> 01:06:37,860 Please hit me up if you're here. Get a Get a steak grilled or 1208 01:06:37,860 --> 01:06:40,180 something. Just catch up man steak in a 1209 01:06:40,180 --> 01:06:43,300 pound of butter. Yes, steak, pound of butter and 1210 01:06:43,300 --> 01:06:45,140 some deadlifts and and we're both golden. 1211 01:06:46,260 --> 01:06:47,740 I'm game, man. Please let me know. 1212 01:06:48,300 --> 01:06:50,140 Awesome, Trevor. Well, I will certainly keep in 1213 01:06:50,140 --> 01:06:51,940 touch with you about that, man. We'll make it happen. 1214 01:06:52,180 --> 01:06:55,500 I will link out to the website, the book, everything. 1215 01:06:55,780 --> 01:06:57,900 I love what you're doing. I think that the space that 1216 01:06:57,900 --> 01:07:01,420 you're in right now is in a much needed space and it needs to be 1217 01:07:01,420 --> 01:07:03,420 fallen on more ears. So I'm happy to get you on the 1218 01:07:03,420 --> 01:07:06,070 podcast. And happy to see you doing what 1219 01:07:06,070 --> 01:07:07,830 you're doing, brother. Cheers, man. 1220 01:07:07,830 --> 01:07:09,430 Have a great rest of your day. Take care Trevor. 1221 01:07:09,430 --> 01:07:10,190 Have a good man. All right. 1222 01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:11,070 See you, Robert.