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Hello, ladies and gents Robert 
Sykes keto, Savage.com. 

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And today I've got special guest
sod who is the co-founder of 

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hone Health which is all about 
hormonal health for guys and we 

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talked about it's funny. 
We talk all about hormonal 

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Health, blood markers, how they 
go about these testing how they 

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can go about treatment. 
But then we totally took a 

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tangent and Dove deep into 
mindset stoicism, gratitude, 

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mentality business, 
entrepreneurial, you know, 

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endeavors. 
You know, having a good company 

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culture. 
So we just we talked about it. 

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All I thoroughly thoroughly 
enjoyed the conversation. 

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I learned a ton and have a lot 
of desire to keep in touch with 

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this guy because I feel like he 
and I are quite aligned when it 

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comes to our views towards 
business and life. 

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So I have no doubt that you 
enjoy this conversation. 

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So that further Ado, sit back, 
relax and enjoy the podcast with

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sod And we are live. 
Sod, how are you brother good? 

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I'm good man, I appreciate you 
having me on hey man I 

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appreciate you taking the time. 
So I have had several women 

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experts on the podcast that dive
deep into, you know, the 

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different menopausal phases, the
different progesterone, Esther 

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own estrogen, everything related
to female A hormonal health. 

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I haven't, honestly had too many
guys, on the podcast, which is 

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funny because I'm a guy talking 
about proper male hormonal 

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health. 
And I'm not sure how we even 

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connected, but I think Chase, I 
think sent me Chase tuning. 

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I think got me in touch with 
you, but I read your bio read a 

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little bit about your business 
home health. 

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And it's all about male 
testosterone and just male 

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Vitality. 
So I kind of love to pull the 

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curtain back on that and dive 
deeper into the science and 

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research around that. 
But before we do that, man, what

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even You interested in that, you
know, trajectory that, that path

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anyways. 
So, you know what I've been 

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building technology companies 
now from of the past 15 years 

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and I only build companies based
upon problems. 

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I've actually been through 
personally, because frankly with

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the amount of time and effort 
that goes into this thing, you 

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don't care about it about the 
problem. 

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And if you're not obsessed about
solving the problem, you just 

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don't have the energy to go 
through all the ups and downs. 

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So, maybe some background on 
myself and I'll tell you the 

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problem that I had, that 
inspired me, but I probably been

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like you, I've been, I've been, 
I've been in Fleet since I was 

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as young as I could remember, it
really was the way that helped 

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me as an immigrant right fit 
into the fit into the country. 

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On top of it to I've been 
working out right I don't know 

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six days a week for the past 25 
years of my life I eat 

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perfectly. 
I meditate twice a day. 

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I track my sleep with three 
different devices. 

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I have blood drawn every month. 
I've got it really a hyperbaric 

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oxygen chamber. 
My office right next to me and 

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infrared sauna behind me. 
And so when I say like I'm 

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obsessed, like I'm all in on it.
I absolutely love. 

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Everything about optimization 
learning how to push my body. 

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And so when I turned 35, which 
was five years ago, a bunch of 

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things started happening. 
First thing that started to 

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happen was, I started to lose my
energy over the course of about 

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a year, and I've started waking 
up a little bit later that 

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turned into wake sleeping, until
noon, some days that turned into

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taking a nap every now and then 
in the, in the afternoon, which 

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is completely the opposite of my
personality. 

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The sudden that my mental focus,
my Acuity started to decrease 

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pretty dramatically. 
I was having trouble recalling, 

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simple Concepts, I would having 
trouble doing simple math, 

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equations in my head and then 
the weight gain started, and no 

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matter what I did, and no matter
how much I changed my diet, I 

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started to get those dreaded. 
Love handles around my stomach, 

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and then, last but not least, it
was actually probably the straw 

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that broke the camel's back. 
If I'm being honest, my libido 

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is gone. 
I mean, so much. 

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So that forget about the desire 
not being There. 

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But the plumbing just wouldn't 
even more. 

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And that right makes for some 
really scary conversations 

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between between me and my 
girlfriend at the time. 

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And, you know, I probably laugh 
it off now, especially 

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considering I've decided to 
dedicate my whole life to this, 

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but I mean men, it's scary. 
It's so scary when that happens,

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you know, here I was 35. 
Finally, had some coin in my 

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pocket should have been on top 
of the world. 

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And here I am pushing myself as 
a man. 

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All of a sudden, don't know if 
I'll be able to pray thrive. 

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My family take care of my aging 
parents. 

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And so I went to my primary care
physician and I said, look, 

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something is dramatically wrong.
And right, this is like a pretty

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high-end concierge Doc and he 
should have, he did what any doc

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would have done. 
He said, let me go, take your 

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blood brought me back and you 
know my testosterone level was 

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187 NG or does DL poof. 
You do anything? 

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It means that you're incredibly 
low and because it was in range 

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for the lab that he used, he 
actually looked at All my lab 

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values and said side, you're 
like a shining example of house 

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and he says, you know what 
Middle Eastern men start to age 

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a little bit early, so this 
could just be the beginning of 

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old age and frankly, like you 
just have to deal with it and 

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you seem like the kind that has 
a lot of millennial expensive 

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existential angst. 
So you should learn how to get 

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get a hold of that too. 
Wow, that's pretty pretty harsh.

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It's so harsh and I said I said 
that's bullshit man. 

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Absolutely not. 
That's not what top Quality 

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Healthcare in this country gets 
you And that's what started this

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kind of Journey I went on and 
took six months, right? 

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I went to I went to multiple 
Physicians. 

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They sent me two labs, they 
brought me back to their offices

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because that was part of 
protocol told me nothing was 

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wrong. 
And I finally met a group of 

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hormone optimization and 
regenerative Physicians, they 

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took a look at that same blood 
work. 

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And they literally said, the 
problem is really easy. 

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You've got the testosterone 
levels of an 80 year old man, 

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and, and the thing that gave me 
So much comfort and solace. 

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In this entire thing was they 
said a large majority of our 

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customers are younger guys. 
Like you said that's, that's 

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bizarre. 
Why would that even be 

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happening? 
And they said, you know, it's 

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odd, Our Generation. 
Keep in mind, they're 30 years 

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old and I am, we had 
testosterone levels that are 25%

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higher. 
We had 50% more sperm, and I 

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said this is sounds 
conspiratorial like, wow, that's

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crazy. 
Why would that even be 

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happening? 
Why don't people even talk about

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it? 
And, you know, that's, they 

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didn't have a really great 
answer other than the fact that 

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a lot of their customers or 
their patients were younger. 

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But I served to do a lot of a 
lot of research and the 

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scientific Community while very 
nascent is now beginning to 

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really gravitate Words, the fact
that they're all these 

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environmental contaminants, but 
they're these Plastics fall 

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AIDS, pcbs in our food and our 
drinking water. 

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And for men, they get into our 
body and they resemble these 

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estrogenic compounds. 
And they tell the hormone 

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regulating centers in our brain 
to essentially shut down natural

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or endogenous production. 
And when I heard that, I was 

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like, oh my God, this is like 
the handmaid's tale. 

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And if you ever see that seen 
that show and I said, this is 

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really scary because These also 
cause what they call epigenetic 

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changes. 
So not true changes to your DNA 

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but changes that are expressed 
which can be passed on to your 

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Offspring. 
And so basically, if you were to

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follow this thing down and it 
sounds conspiratorial again, 

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your children could actually 
theoretically have lower 

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testosterone levels and you do 
which right has all kinds of 

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problems associated with it. 
And so that's really what 

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inspired me once I figured once 
I went to once, I got some help,

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For myself. 
I mean, man, it fundamentally 

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changing my life in the most 
real ways and that was the thing

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that made me say, Okay I want I 
want to spend the rest of my 

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life building this company to 
help men have confidence as they

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age. 
Not loving man. 

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I feel like I feel like people 
don't even realize how their 

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environmental factors are 
affecting their health from like

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a whole model standpoint. 
Are you familiar with dr. 

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Anthony J. 
Like if you ever heard of him, 

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Say that again, his name is dr. 
Anthony J. 

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Know he's a really good friend 
of mine. 

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I go hunting with him every 
year. 

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He like this is his area of 
expertise like he's done. 

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He's a geneticist or used to be 
a geneticist so he knows all 

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about, you know, the epigenetic 
effect, he wrote the book estro 

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Generations. 
Talking about how Plastics and 

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phalates and all these 
environmental factors have a 

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pretty profound impact on one's 
hormonal Health. 

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But I had no clue about any of 
this until I started diving into

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his Eric had him on my podcast 
and then it was just like crazy,

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man. 
Because like, I mean things that

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you don't even think about, like
the topical stuff you put on 

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your skin to take a shower, 
like, all these things that were

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now just inundated with that, we
weren't 50 years ago. 

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That mean that's probably the 
main culprit. 

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I'm gonna assume, it's probably 
one of the leading culprits as 

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to why Baseline testosterone 
levels, have just gone through 

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the freakin floor, that's what 
they say. 

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Nothing up granted, right. 
There's also if we're being 

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completely objective, we are as 
a nation far more obese. 

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We tend to use our phones, like,
from the moment we wake up to 

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the moment, we go to bed and 
like the blue light, definitely 

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disturbs our REM and our deep 
sleep. 

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And so that has a bearing on 
your testosterone levels. 

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But I think the one fact that 
really points towards 

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environmental contaminants is 
when you look at the population 

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or the for the testosterone 
levels of populations in large 

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Urban or metropolitan areas, 
they actually tend to be far 

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lower than people in rural 
areas. 

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And if you say men and it's in 
large part, because there are 

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there is a much higher incidence
of these environmental, 

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contaminants, mmm. 
So, what knowing that before, 

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before we dive into your company
and what you've done, you know, 

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exoticness lie to help, what are
some things that you've done 

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just with from an environmental 
standpoint that, you know, now 

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that you know what? 
You know what have you changed 

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environmentally? 
That was hopefully getting the 

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needle moving in the right 
direction and that regard Well, 

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unfortunately, I decided to stay
living in a large city. 

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How many Yorker? 
And I love it. 

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The energy. 
I probably get from the city is 

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kind of unrivaled, but they're 
simple. 

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Things we started doing right. 
We start, I started using 

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natural deodorant I stopped 
using plastic when I was eating,

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meaning a like I used. 
I do a ton of meal prep and so I

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started using glass containers. 
I stopped drinking out of 

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plastic water bottles, which is 
really hard to do at the 

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beginning, but, Once you get 
your own kind of like glass 

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water bottle, put the right 
exterior on it. 

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And you then we drink a ton of 
filtered water on top of it to 

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like, I'd like to say that I 
changed all my shampoos and all 

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my my my face creams. 
We haven't gotten there yet per 

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se because it's hard to find. 
I would say the quality is of 

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some of the organic products 
that are really looking for but 

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those are like the main 
Environmental Ones that you can 

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do for me. 
It was I was doing a lot of the 

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things, right? 
I was sleeping, right. 

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I was checking my my nutrient 
levels. 

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I was eating I was eating right?
I didn't have a diet that was 

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too high in refined 
carbohydrates and didn't drink 

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soda. 
I didn't drink alcohol, didn't 

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smoke. 
And so it really came down to my

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hormonal system was off balance 
in what was probably the most 

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likely some of these in Our 
mental contaminants that had 

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just accumulate on my body for 
years, if I'm being honest. 

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Yeah, no, totally. 
So talk to me about home health,

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what that is and and what that 
looks like for you both as the 

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owner and also I guess as a 
patient of your, of your own 

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Clinic. 
Yep. 

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So I would say, right that the 
biggest problem is that I had 

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when I went through my journey 
was actually, hold on. 

226
00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:06,700
Does it make sense for me to 
give us? 

227
00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:09,800
Give your give your listeners a 
quick science lesson. 

228
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,000
On how testosterone works in 
your body, totally man, lay it 

229
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,400
on us. 
Okay, cool. 

230
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,400
Because I thought that'll 
actually naturally lead into 

231
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,800
what we do and why is so 
differentiated. 

232
00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:22,400
So imagine you've got this 
little gland in your head. 

233
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,100
It's called your pituitary 
gland, your pituitary gland. 

234
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,600
If you kind of think about where
the base of your skull is and 

235
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,700
the middle, that's kind of sits 
in between there in your eyes. 

236
00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:35,000
And so that Glenn is kind of 
like the thermostat for your 

237
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,900
entire body and it actually sits
underneath what's called your 

238
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:45,500
Hypothalamus and so your 
pituitary gland, it secretes a 

239
00:12:45,508 --> 00:12:50,300
hormone called LH or luteinizing
hormone that luteinizing hormone

240
00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:54,200
runs through your body and it 
tells these cells in your 

241
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,400
testes, call your latex cells, 
it tells them. 

242
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,300
Hey, I want you to produce more 
testosterone and so it activates

243
00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:01,300
them testosterone is produced in
your body. 

244
00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:06,000
Some of that testosterone gets 
bound up by sex crime, sex 

245
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,200
hormone-binding globulin which 
is known as shbg or albumin. 

246
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:12,800
And It's bounded can't really do
a lot of useful stuff. 

247
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,500
And so then there is some 
percentage of testosterone 

248
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:18,000
that's what they call free 
testosterone or Unbound, 

249
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,900
testosterone that can then do 
useful work in the cells. 

250
00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:26,800
Now some of that free 
testosterone, it turns into DHT,

251
00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:31,000
DHT is actually far more 
anabolic but also is the the 

252
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,900
hormone that is very much 
directly responsible for 

253
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:38,100
increased hair loss for in men. 
The other thing, it turns into 

254
00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:42,200
is it turns into it? 
Turned into estrogen and 

255
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,800
estrogen as, you know, is 
something normally most people 

256
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,500
equate to a female hormone, but 
really important for men because

257
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:52,300
it confers bone strength on us, 
it decreases the chances of 

258
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:55,700
dementia as we get older. 
And then what ends up happening 

259
00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:59,900
is your hypothalamus, which sits
on top of your pituitary, it 

260
00:13:59,900 --> 00:14:03,200
senses, how much estrogen or 
testosterone is in your body, 

261
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:07,500
and it tells that it tells it, 
it, I would say, almost 

262
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:09,900
modulates, the amount of LH 
that's being secreted. 

263
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,200
Treated, which tells your body 
to produce more testosterone. 

264
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,400
So imagine this right? 
You all of a sudden have a lot 

265
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,100
of estrogen in your body, well, 
your hypothalamus knows that and

266
00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:20,800
then it'll tell your pituitary 
gland. 

267
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,200
Hey, I need you to slow down the
secretion of LH because we know 

268
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,400
testosterone turns into estrogen
and it's probably a little bit 

269
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,000
higher than it needs to be. 
And so, when you have all these 

270
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,900
environmental, contaminants that
resemble these estrogenic 

271
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:37,100
compounds, your brain is 
basically saying too much 

272
00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:39,400
testosterone or body. 
Let's go ahead and shut down 

273
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,400
natural. 
Option. 

274
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,700
Hmm, got you and so, that's 
imagine. 

275
00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:46,300
That's kind of like a backdrop 
and weíll talk about what the 

276
00:14:46,308 --> 00:14:48,400
company does and how we help fix
that. 

277
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,000
So, the first thing that 
happens, you go online. 

278
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,300
You pay just $45 for an at-home 
testing kit, kit, or at the test

279
00:14:56,300 --> 00:14:59,200
goes directly to your house, you
prick, your finger. 

280
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:02,700
You give us several drops of 
blood, we then send it into one 

281
00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:05,000
of. 
Our labs are Labs analyzed at 

282
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,700
48, different hormones. 
We then put you on a 30-minute 

283
00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:11,800
video. 
Video call with a licensed 

284
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,700
physician. 
Now the physician spends, 

285
00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:18,300
probably the first 10 minutes 
asking you about yourself. 

286
00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:20,700
Why you're here. 
What are you trying to achieve? 

287
00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:23,900
It's kind of like the beginning 
of a deep relationship building 

288
00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:28,100
exercise the next 10 minutes. 
He spends he or she spends 

289
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,000
talking about will these are 
what your hormone levels. 

290
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,800
We really do. 
A good job, educating the 

291
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,900
patient. 
Then the next 10 minutes is, 

292
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,400
well, here are the positives or 
the benefits or here are the 

293
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,900
side. 
Ex of any potential treatment 

294
00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:44,600
plan. 
And this is really important, a 

295
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,000
lot of other clinics out there 
will treat a man for any at any 

296
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,800
testosterone level. 
We actually only treat hypo, 

297
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,400
gonna do men or men with 
clinically low testosterone, we 

298
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,000
turn away a ton of business, 
because guys, come in just say I

299
00:15:58,008 --> 00:16:00,800
want higher testosterone levels 
and we say there has to be a 

300
00:16:00,808 --> 00:16:05,600
medical need. 
And then we basically, if the 

301
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,400
patient says, yes, I want to get
on testosterone or I want to get

302
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,500
on Clomid, which is a fertility.
He drugged, we also have other 

303
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:13,300
longevity drugs, drugs for 
disease prevention. 

304
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:18,200
Then we basically ship, patient 
out medications from our 

305
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,100
Pharmacy and then every 90 days,
they either get another at home.

306
00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:24,300
Blood tests, they can go to 
LabCorp, they can get a 

307
00:16:24,308 --> 00:16:26,900
phlebotomist, come to their 
house, so we can get another 

308
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:31,200
reading of their biomarkers, and
then they do another consult 

309
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,400
with a physician because what 
ends up happening is, once you 

310
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,000
start treatment for one 
particular hormone, there is a 

311
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,200
downstream. 
Act on other hormones, because 

312
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,100
we talked about how testosterone
curves into estrogen or to DHT. 

313
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,200
And basically, we have to 
carefully measure those every 90

314
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,700
days and do what we kind of call
a dialing in your medications. 

315
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:55,900
You either change the 
medications, titrate them up, 

316
00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:59,400
maybe titrate them down, maybe 
pull one off of it and you kind 

317
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,400
of have to go through this dance
for about six months to a year 

318
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,500
to figure out what your sweet 
spot really is. 

319
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,200
And so that's that's really the 
way the business operates catch 

320
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,500
it, catch it. 
And when these, Own drugs are 

321
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:14,300
shipped to the patient. 
How are they administering? 

322
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:16,200
Those is that just through 
needle injection. 

323
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:19,599
It's a great question. 
I'll actually ask you what your 

324
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,700
thoughts are. 
So we have, we have three 

325
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:26,000
formulations. 
We have these under the tongue 

326
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,800
trophies. 
They're like these little 

327
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,800
Starburst that go under your 
tongue bait. 

328
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,100
They taste wonderful. 
We've got this cream that you 

329
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:35,000
can put on your arms or your 
testes. 

330
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,100
We've got these subcutaneous 
injections, which are like these

331
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,600
little insulin pens and you 
basically administer yourself an

332
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,700
injection in your stomach with 
what proportions of each do you 

333
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:49,400
think we sell? 
Man, I would imagine most people

334
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,200
are going for the least 
invasive. 

335
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,400
So he the topical or the under 
the tongue gummy, that's what we

336
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,700
thought. 98% of the men will opt
for subcutaneous injections 

337
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,600
really understand. 
Why is that you think? 

338
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,200
I think there's a there's a 
bunch of reasons one. 

339
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,000
I think that there is this a lot
of guys that go on forums and 

340
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,000
forums tend to talk about how 
you get the most stable delivery

341
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,100
of testosterone through through 
either an IM or subcutaneous 

342
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,500
delivery. 
I think there's this weird 

343
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:27,100
thing. 
Also beware, when you talk to 

344
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:32,600
guys about taking testosterone 
there almost want to do, what 

345
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,400
they think is going to be the 
most invasive. 

346
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,700
Delivery method because they 
also believe it's going to be 

347
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:41,900
the most efficacious, mmm, okay.
Also the fewest side effects 

348
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,900
with the subcutaneous injection 
as well, too. 

349
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,600
Yeah, that makes sense. 
What are some side effects that 

350
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,300
you all are typically saying so 
generally, right? 

351
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:55,500
So this is important. 
Imagine I take a shot on Monday.

352
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,800
My the the concentration of 
testosterone, on my blood is 

353
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,300
probably going to be its highest
Tuesday afternoon into 

354
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:06,900
Wednesday, then my Body starts 
to metabolize it, and that 

355
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:09,500
concentration starts to decrease
over time. 

356
00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:13,100
Now, when you inject, it goes to
the, it gets the highest 

357
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:15,100
concentration within about a day
and a half, and that's when you 

358
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:16,800
experience the most side 
effects. 

359
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,200
And so that, the side effects, 
you can see experience, our 

360
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,400
water retention acne. 
Hair loss at the doses were 

361
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,300
prescribed, you don't really see
changes in like in like temper 

362
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:32,100
at all. 
Generally in order to get there,

363
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:34,500
you got to do 20 times more than
we're prescribing. 

364
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:37,200
Our positions, you work with are
prescribing. 

365
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,000
And then the other one is 
something called an elevated 

366
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,300
hematocrit level. 
So in about fifteen percent of 

367
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:47,400
all the cases, I happen to be 
one of those guys. 

368
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:48,900
The total number of red blood 
cells. 

369
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:52,000
You had actually increases. 
So you have to go get what they 

370
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,600
call phlebotomist which is just 
a really fancy word for donating

371
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,300
a little bit of blood. 
Every problem, six months, and 

372
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:01,300
those are like really the side 
effects that we see. 

373
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:03,800
Now, the reason I was telling 
you about the day at which your 

374
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,800
blood concentration Peaks is 
because what you actually find 

375
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,900
is that if you Rather than to an
injection every once a week but 

376
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:15,000
you do it maybe twice a week or 
three times a week in a smaller 

377
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,000
dose. 
The the peak that you get to is 

378
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,300
not as high and a large number 
of the side effects actually 

379
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:22,300
fall away. 
Yeah, I've heard that on 

380
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:24,300
numerous occasions. 
Like if you're going to be 

381
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:27,400
dosing this it's much better. 
Very little more of a hassle but

382
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,000
much much better from a side 
effect standpoint symptoms, Sam 

383
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
standpoint. 
If you're able to just you know,

384
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,500
spread that over a longer period
of time. 

385
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:37,000
But with a much smaller dosage 
to kind of just keep things more

386
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,600
even Keel so to speak. 100% 
absolutely. 

387
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,300
Yeah, and I'll tell you, you 
feel way different because what 

388
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:47,400
ends up happening is if I inject
on Monday and I'm feeling great 

389
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,100
on Tuesday or Wednesday by the 
time Sunday comes around next 

390
00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:53,400
week. 
I've fallen into this trough 

391
00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:56,600
because my concentration level 
is so low that, I'm pretty 

392
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,800
cranky and probably not moving 
as fast. 

393
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,600
I'm not sleeping as well versus 
when you space it out to three 

394
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,500
times a week. 
You don't really experience that

395
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:09,000
that large of a drop and use 
experience far more of a Little 

396
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,000
concentration. 
Yeah. 

397
00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:13,800
What do you say to the people 
that are a little bit hesitant 

398
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,800
to like hesitant about the 
accuracy of these at home? 

399
00:21:17,808 --> 00:21:20,200
Blood tests. 
Like I've companies have sent me

400
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,000
like at home blood, testing 
kits, for testing, cholesterol, 

401
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,200
and hormones, and things of that
nature. 

402
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,900
And I mean, the ones that I've 
done is pretty small sample size

403
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:30,900
like where as you go into the 
doctor, like to a Quest 

404
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:33,400
Diagnostics, enter you give a 
pretty hefty dose of blood. 

405
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,700
Like, is there any any accuracy 
lost in transit with such a 

406
00:21:37,708 --> 00:21:41,300
small dose of Of blood that's 
not being kept under certain 

407
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,000
temperature control or anything 
like that. 

408
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:44,600
So that's a great question. 
All right. 

409
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,100
So basically the process we use 
what they call dried blood 

410
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:51,600
spots, right? 
So it's basically a fancy filthy

411
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,800
piece of filter paper. 
You drop a couple drops of blood

412
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,700
and what the blood actually does
is it travels up the filter 

413
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:01,200
paper and then, it begins to 
separate into serum. 

414
00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:05,300
And so there's this kind of like
Trends Lucien yellow color that 

415
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:08,300
forms where the blood stops to 
conceptor eight. 

416
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,400
That's where they actually run 
the analysis. 

417
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:13,800
Now, the technology has been 
around for 30 years is very well

418
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,700
understood. 
And all the labs that we use or 

419
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:20,200
what they call clear cap 
certified which basically means 

420
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,800
every single week, well, first 
even get started, they've got to

421
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,300
go in get certified by governing
agency. 

422
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,900
And then every week they've got 
to run a sample to make sure 

423
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:32,900
that the sample that they are 
running for you is equivalent to

424
00:22:32,908 --> 00:22:35,200
what they called venipuncture, 
which is just a fancy way of 

425
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,000
saying actual blood that would 
go to something like like a 

426
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,500
questor LabCorp. 
And so the, the punchline there 

427
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:47,700
is, you don't need that much 
blood because they're using 

428
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:50,300
different instruments to conduct
the analysis. 

429
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,700
And keep in mind, this is very 
different than like a fair knows

430
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:56,900
where it's like, hey, with a 
single drop of blood. 

431
00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,300
We're looking for going to be 
able to measure 200 different 

432
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:01,700
biomarkers. 
This is more like four drops of 

433
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:05,000
blood. 
We can measure a biomarkers and 

434
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,900
that's going. 
You said that's so it's not like

435
00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:11,500
it's being deposited into A like
a vile that just has these few 

436
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:15,300
drops of blood in its being 
deposited into a vial that has 

437
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:17,500
this paper Wick. 
So to speak, and that's what 

438
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:20,900
you're testing. 
And maybe a vial with the paper 

439
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:22,900
Wick is the, I may have 
miscommunicated. 

440
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:25,800
Imagine it's just like a piece 
of filter paper, right? 

441
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,300
It's and I say I'm simplifying 
it. 

442
00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:31,200
It's like a fancy piece of 
filter, paper on a piece of 

443
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,800
cardboard and so you, you 
deposit your blood on that. 

444
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:38,400
Now what's interesting though? 
Is going back. 

445
00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:42,900
My comment about we are only 
treat hypogonadism men. 

446
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,300
We are arguably the most 
conservative clinic in the 

447
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:49,000
country, where we really put 
safety Above All Else. 

448
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:52,700
And generally, if a guy wants to
go on testosterone, will make 

449
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:56,000
them do a confirmatory 
testosterone reading. 

450
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,800
Before we're the Physicians, we 
work with are willing to 

451
00:23:58,808 --> 00:24:02,100
prescribe to them. 
And that particular marker is 

452
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,100
hematocrit. 
Matte acrylic doesn't work on 

453
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:07,200
one of these cards. 
So ends up being like a little 

454
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,800
microtainer, you have to use 
Which to your point is like a 

455
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,600
little vial of blood, and you 
basically ship that on ice and 

456
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,400
it gets there within 24 hours. 
Gotcha, gotcha. 

457
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,500
So these companies that are 
doing something similar in the 

458
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,300
guards that I testing blood 
markers, if they're just simply 

459
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:25,800
doing like a vile and you put in
a few drops in there and then 

460
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,500
you're sending it, you know, 
several States over and it's not

461
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:30,600
temperature-controlled. 
There's probably going to be 

462
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,000
some inaccuracies and those 
results, right? 

463
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:38,900
This is going to sound soft that
I say this could be some some 

464
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:42,800
some biomarkers may not need 
them to be refrigerated others, 

465
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,300
definitely do. 
They could also use an 

466
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:47,900
anticoagulant in there that 
maybe doesn't require that as 

467
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:49,900
much. 
So I think it's it really is 

468
00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:52,200
case dependent based upon which 
one you're looking at. 

469
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,400
Gotcha. 
Gotcha. 

470
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:57,900
When it comes to the like cut 
off points for what a viable 

471
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:00,400
candidate would be versus. 
What would, what about can't 

472
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,800
would not be? 
I guess that's Universal. 

473
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,800
Is that kind of Totally 
dependent upon the individual, 

474
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,400
or they're like certain markers 
of which like, hey, your toe 

475
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,200
testosterone is beneath this 
level, your free test is here. 

476
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:14,000
Your sex hormone-binding 
globulin is here. 

477
00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:16,900
You're a prime candidate. 
Like, what are those markers? 

478
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,200
Man, that's such a great 
question. 

479
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:25,000
And it's, it's actually a very 
political answer. 

480
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,400
I'm going to give you that, is 
it, maybe let me explain this to

481
00:25:28,408 --> 00:25:31,900
you, right? 
So right there are two schools 

482
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:34,400
of thoughts. 
When it comes to To treating 

483
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,400
testosterone one is kind of like
an optimization based school of 

484
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,900
thought, which is, I don't care 
what your testosterone level is 

485
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:42,800
right now. 
I'm just going to get it higher 

486
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,500
and the other one which is the 
one we come through. 

487
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:48,800
Which is you have to be 
clinically low in testosterone 

488
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,400
and be experiencing symptoms of 
low testosterone before we can 

489
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,400
treat you. 
And so the school of thought 

490
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,500
that we come from is really kind
of an outgrowth of the American 

491
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,800
Urological association's 
guidelines around testosterone 

492
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,600
treatment and so they Basically 
kind of have this range and that

493
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,700
range is between 900 and 300 
nanograms per deciliter. 

494
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,200
So it means, if you're anywhere 
within that range, you are 

495
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,400
technically okay. 
Now the thing that's difficult 

496
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:21,400
about that, it's based upon a 
population study and there some 

497
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,100
percentage of people that fall 
into the middle of the 

498
00:26:23,108 --> 00:26:27,000
distribution and some chunk of 
people that fall on the outside 

499
00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:30,000
which means that there's some 
part of the population that 

500
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,700
probably has a healthy 
testosterone level of There's 

501
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:35,700
some people in the population 
that probably have a healthy 

502
00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:38,600
testosterone level of like 180, 
right? 

503
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:41,900
And so, and there's also what it
doesn't differentiate on. 

504
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,700
Is it assumes that the 
testosterone level of a 30 year 

505
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,200
old man is the same as it's a 
softer, own level for a 70 year 

506
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,600
old man. 
And so would you really have to 

507
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,500
do is dive in a little bit 
further to look at Age-related 

508
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,300
testosterone levels. 
So generally for a 30 year old 

509
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:05,000
man based on population data. 
It's like a 704 a 60 or year old

510
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,900
man. 
It's like 400 450 and I guess 

511
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,500
the way we say it is generally 
your testosterone level has to 

512
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,700
be below 300 nanograms per 
deciliter which is generally 

513
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,700
where the AUA calls its 
guidelines. 

514
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:24,600
Now, the reason there's a little
bit of a gray area is because Is

515
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,700
let's assume you were meeting 
with a 30 year old guy that had 

516
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:32,000
a testosterone level of 350. 
Plus, you have all the symptoms 

517
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,500
and so there's a validated 
questionnaire, called a cue Adam

518
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,000
that we in most other clinics 
are up across the country will 

519
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,100
use and the really good 
Physicians. 

520
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:43,800
They won't just treat a number. 
They will treat a combination of

521
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,200
the number and the symptoms. 
And this is really where the art

522
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,200
comes in where the experience 
comes in. 

523
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:51,500
And they can tell where someone 
is hypo ganado versus someone, 

524
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:53,800
is just trying to get 
themselves. 

525
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,400
A mad. 
Education and they will look at 

526
00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:00,000
the combination of the two of 
those things and things like 

527
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,400
when you run out of energy 
during the day, they're things. 

528
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,900
Like how often you have a 
full-blown direction. 

529
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:09,800
It'll talk about the 
satisfaction in your life and 

530
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,500
the combination of those two 
things, really give the 

531
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:15,900
physician enough insight into 
where they should where they 

532
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:19,400
should, how they should pull 
that lever of kind of like the 

533
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,200
three hundred Nano grams per 
deciliter, cut off versus the 

534
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,000
symptoms. 
Gotcha, gotcha. 

535
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,900
Because I feel like there's so 
many people, like and so much of

536
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:32,700
it with with hormones is, is 
acute versus chronic a lot of. 

537
00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:34,800
It is obviously chronic but I 
feel like there's some like, for

538
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,100
instance, I went through, I 
didn't one of these hormonal 

539
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:41,000
panels, but it was I was stupid 
when I did it. 

540
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,600
I did it right after I had had a
baby hadn't slept for a week and

541
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,800
a half. 
I had a whole bunch of chaos 

542
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,800
going on with the business. 
So like I literally hadn't slept

543
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,900
but, you know, one hour for the 
past, you know, several Light 

544
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:56,700
switch is going to tank your 
testosterone and a very acute 

545
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:59,900
fashion but not so much from a 
chronic standpoint. 

546
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:03,400
So it'd be interesting to see. 
Like if people are registering 

547
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,100
these low markers over a 
significant enough period of 

548
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:09,600
time to Warrant that being their
actual Baseline testosterone 

549
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,000
level. 
Hmm, it's a great, it's a great 

550
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,000
question, right? 
And it's to your point, they can

551
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,800
be acute and episodic meaning, 
like, it could be for some 

552
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,500
period of your life. 
While you're, maybe your child 

553
00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:26,000
is less than six months old, or 
Or it could be a cute and really

554
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,100
the focus of like a single day 
in your life because you went 

555
00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:32,700
out and drank and partied. 
So hard for two days that that 

556
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:34,500
day, you're feeling like 
absolute trash. 

557
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,200
And, and I think that kind of 
the way to that, we look at it 

558
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:44,200
is we try removing that out of 
the equation in that, if you 

559
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,300
want. 
There's what the first test, 

560
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:48,800
which is measure testosterone 
level. 

561
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,500
Then, there is some period of 
time later. 

562
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:54,700
Generally, you send in your kit,
you talk to your After you do 

563
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:58,400
another testosterone kit, it's 
probably two to three weeks 

564
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,500
apart and if you get two 
independent readings that are in

565
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,600
that kind of like hypogonadism 
area then you actually get 

566
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,400
prescribed medication. 
Now does it take advantage of 

567
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,300
the fact that maybe it's like a 
six-month long period of your 

568
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:14,000
life? 
Probably not but then once again

569
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,300
you're going to be having that 
conversation with your physician

570
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:18,300
and your Physicians going to 
help decide. 

571
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:22,500
Whether this is something that's
just it's going to come and go 

572
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:24,500
or if it's something that is a 
little bit more chronic in 

573
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:26,500
nature. 
Gotcha and you said you're 

574
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:29,400
testing these patients every 90 
days. 

575
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,600
So like if for whatever reason 
they're there level started 

576
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,800
elevating you know pretty good 
north of 1000 then you can start

577
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,500
scaling that back as necessary. 
Absolutely. 

578
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,800
I feel like a lot of these 
clinics man. 

579
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,700
They just it's like the wild 
west that there was some of this

580
00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:47,400
stuff. 
Like their people are going in 

581
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,600
with, you know, pretty healthy 
testosterone ranges, but they're

582
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,400
there. 
Will the top these docks and 

583
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,000
prescribing testosterone 
basically so they can kind of be

584
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,400
you know bodybuilders on one 
level but not really do things 

585
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,300
the right way. 
So it's good to hear that you're

586
00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:04,500
on the more conservative in and 
like they do you do all this 

587
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:06,800
follow-up and you're actually 
looking into the, you know 

588
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,800
details? 
Yeah. 

589
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,000
You know what? 
It's kind of like And you're 

590
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,900
right there, we always look at 
clinics that we may potentially 

591
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:18,300
acquire especially 
brick-and-mortar ones as we're 

592
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:20,400
starting to get really 
interested in that world. 

593
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:25,000
And when you look at the book of
their patients, 80% of them are 

594
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,500
in that optimization based 
category, right? 

595
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:33,000
And right, as a venture back 
technology business, some would 

596
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,800
say you should take every single
person that comes in that door 

597
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,200
because that's how you build a 
bigger company and grow as fast 

598
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,800
as possible. 
And we said, look, there's some 

599
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,200
there's some real safety. 
Is that you got to take 

600
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,000
advantage of and do what's best 
for the patient and while you 

601
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,800
may lose out on a bunch of 
Revenue, at the end of the day, 

602
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,200
you're doing, what's best for 
the patient? 

603
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,900
Now, the other thing that's 
really interesting, right? 

604
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,900
We started in testosterone 
because that was the immediate 

605
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:57,900
problem that I went through. 
But now, we are starting to 

606
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,400
think about longevity. 
We're starting to think about 

607
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,300
disease, prevention. 
We're starting to think about 

608
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:06,500
energy management and what I 
mean by that is most people 

609
00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:10,100
think that when a guy comes in 
to us and they say, I need 

610
00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:12,900
testosterone, they I want bigger
muscles and they want to have 

611
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:16,000
better sex, which by the way, 
are two things that do improve 

612
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,200
generally when you take 
testosterone, but what they 

613
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,700
generally say to us is, I can't 
get on the ground and play with 

614
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:26,600
my kids anymore. 
They say, I can't have a part, 

615
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,700
have a conversation with my 
partner, or my my wife and and 

616
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,600
really kind of be present in the
moment because I don't have the 

617
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,500
patience or I maybe I blow up or
maybe they say, I can't go to 

618
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:39,600
work and earn more money because
I don't have the ability to 

619
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,100
focus and I can't take care of 
the people. 

620
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:43,500
I Of. 
And so they make the statement 

621
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:47,200
and it sounds like it's very 
just scratching the surface, but

622
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,600
it's really deep and they say I 
just want to feel like myself 

623
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,400
again. 
I want the energy to feel like I

624
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,400
did when I was in my late 20s or
early 30s because that's when I 

625
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,500
was the most productive. 
And so, we've begun to 

626
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,500
understand is that very often, 
that might not be a testosterone

627
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:06,000
problem, that might be a 
mitochondrial problem. 

628
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:10,900
That could be your body is has a
tremendous amount of 

629
00:33:10,908 --> 00:33:11,600
inflammation. 
Nation. 

630
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,600
It could be because you're not 
eating, right? 

631
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,600
It could be because you're not 
sleeping, right? 

632
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:18,900
And so, we begun, kind of 
introducing, a lot of coaching 

633
00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:22,600
lifestyle coaching around her 
around our protocols, but also 

634
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,400
to introducing more products. 
So, we just introduced NAD or 

635
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,900
are you familiar with NAD? 
You have never use it but it's a

636
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:32,400
pretty popular like the, you 
know, nootropic category. 

637
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:34,800
Yeah. 
So, so interestingly, right? 

638
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,600
As you get older, the, the 
mitochondria are like the end. 

639
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,900
The powerhouses of your cell, 
they start to kind of 

640
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:45,400
deteriorate and you can get NAD 
at a lot of different kind of 

641
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,900
like over the over-the-counter 
stores. 

642
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:51,100
But we sell, an injectable form 
that has to be prescribed and 

643
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:54,300
people pay upwards of a thousand
dollars for an IV for this stuff

644
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:56,600
and we sell it for like $150, 
right? 

645
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,000
And that's really good to kind 
of use on a daily basis. 

646
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,400
We started selling glutathione 
which is kind of like the mother

647
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,300
of all antioxidants also 
injectable that needs to be 

648
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:08,699
prescribed we started selling 
injectable B12 as well too. 

649
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:12,199
And We just started selling 
metformin, which is a type 2 

650
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,900
diabetes medication, but the 
research has begun showing. 

651
00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:18,699
It is an incredible longevity 
drug because it activates 

652
00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:21,699
multiple Pathways. 
And so now we are kind of 

653
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,199
shifting from what is just 
solely a testosterone clinic, or

654
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:30,600
was into something that is far 
more longevity, based, I like 

655
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,300
that, man. 
I feel like there's from a 

656
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:35,699
longevity standpoint. 
There's so much that people can 

657
00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:38,699
do, you know, internally and 
externally. 

658
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,100
Only with supplements to take 
Foods. 

659
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:42,300
They consume the environmental 
factors and I feel like, that's 

660
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:45,100
almost like, I feel like that's 
where people's mind needs to be.

661
00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:47,699
Go needs to go. 
I mean, I'm all about optimizing

662
00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:50,400
performance, you know, 
competing, you know, being a 

663
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,800
bodybuilder. 
But I feel like that's why I 

664
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,400
stay in a natural bodybuilding 
category because you see so many

665
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,900
is bottom. 
And just these past two years, 

666
00:34:56,900 --> 00:34:58,300
man, I don't know if you follow 
bodybuilding and all. 

667
00:34:58,300 --> 00:35:01,700
But so many of them have died 
these past two years, there's a 

668
00:35:01,707 --> 00:35:05,200
lot of, you know, guesstimation 
as to what the primary driver is

669
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,500
there. 
But I feel like people need to 

670
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:09,300
have this focus on. 
Jeopardy? 

671
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:11,300
Because of the end of the day, 
when you're like, 60 years old, 

672
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:14,400
you're not competing on stage 
anymore, like you got to be able

673
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,200
to still function at a high 
level and enjoy your day today. 

674
00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:20,400
Wait. 
So let's let's even talk about 

675
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,000
this, right? 
Do you want me asking how old 

676
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,300
are you? 
I'm 34 30. 

677
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:28,000
Okay. 
So I just turned 40, let's 

678
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,600
imagine right that you, and I 
will live until we're 120 and I 

679
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,300
almost think it's a foregone 
conclusion. 

680
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:38,900
I think about the fact that 
great my father, who's a A 

681
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,800
kidney patient and dialysis 
should have probably died, 20 

682
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,100
years ago and has been kept 
Alive by the medical advances 

683
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,300
and by the time we're even at 
that stage they'll be far. 

684
00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:50,500
They will far superseded what's 
around right now. 

685
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:53,800
And so right it fundamentally 
changes the Arc of your 

686
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,300
definition of what life is and 
so you when you're 60 you got to

687
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:02,900
go run around in the world you 
and I will live in when we're 60

688
00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:04,900
that'll actually be middle-aged.
Yeah. 

689
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:08,400
Great minute we age. 
Like I'm 40 and I would argue 

690
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,300
that. 
I feel like I'm in my early 20s 

691
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:13,200
and I probably run just like 
that in terms of like my thirst 

692
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,700
for life and what I can 
accomplish in a day and if you 

693
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:21,100
think about you're 30, you're 
gonna have even have 80 good 

694
00:36:21,100 --> 00:36:23,000
years of life. 
Ahead of you forget about the 10

695
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,000
at the end where it's crappy. 
So when you're 60 I mean you're 

696
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,700
just getting into like your 
third life. 

697
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,600
I don't think a man, I was 
talking to people this weekend 

698
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,000
about. 
They just retired, they're six 

699
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,000
years old, they just retired. 
I was talking them and I'm like,

700
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,600
I just like, I think Of 60 as 
you know not even not even 

701
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,200
crusting middle-aged. 
So like I have no desire to 

702
00:36:45,207 --> 00:36:48,100
retire because I'm My Own Boss. 
I do my own thing, I love what I

703
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:52,300
do but like I can't imagine 
having 40 50 60 years after you 

704
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,500
quit your day job, so to speak 
and you have nothing really 

705
00:36:56,500 --> 00:36:59,100
driving you because you don't 
have you don't have this this 

706
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:01,800
thing because you just assume 
that you're over the hill and 

707
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,400
you're on the the regressing 
side of things which just is 

708
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,500
totally demoralizing than my 
opinion. 

709
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,300
It is and it There's such a 
mindset shift, right? 

710
00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:14,900
I'll tell you. 
So, I was, I was turning 35 and 

711
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:18,100
I was kind of, like, I'm turning
35, and I don't know why 

712
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:21,500
mentally, but, in my head, I was
like, you know, and in a couple 

713
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:25,100
years I'll be 40 and then I'll 
be 50 and once you're 50 or as 

714
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:28,500
good as like, hanging it up and 
you're kind of like old and one 

715
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:30,900
of my friends who's 50 calls me 
up and he's like, hey look, I'm 

716
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:32,400
going to Vegas for my 50th 
birthday. 

717
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,300
Why don't you come with? 
And so I go with him and it's 

718
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:37,900
like 2:00 in the morning and I'm
like, hey Craig, I'm going to go

719
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,000
to sleep, he's like What he's 
like, why is it? 

720
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,000
Well, I got to get up in the 
morning. 

721
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,800
I want to make sure you know I'm
not too tired. 

722
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,200
He's like sod. 
I'm 50 years old. 

723
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:49,700
And I am going to literally go 
all night long because I love 

724
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:53,800
life that much and he was like, 
well, why are you acting like 

725
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,700
such like why are you acting so 
down? 

726
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:58,100
I was like, well, you know, I 
just turned 35, give it just 

727
00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:01,200
hope Kim the whole species. 
Like, dude, you have no idea 

728
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,600
what life is about. 
He goes, I'm just turning 50 and

729
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,100
luckily he you know, he's built 
a couple of successful 

730
00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:09,900
businesses. 
So You can focus on different 

731
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:12,800
parts of his life and he's like,
I'm going to live until I'm 100 

732
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,000
and he goes, I'm just getting 
started in life and it's 

733
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,400
interesting because in that 
moment, I mentally understood 

734
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,900
that at 35, if I think I'm going
to live until I'm in my 

735
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:28,600
hundreds, that all of a sudden, 
it's like being 18 years old 

736
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,900
with the experience in the bank 
account of a 35 year old. 

737
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:35,400
And I was just given a gift and 
it's almost like you have that 

738
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,900
moment in your life where you 
say, holy crap, he's completely 

739
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:39,900
right? 
Like I'm Just getting started. 

740
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:45,000
And I think once I made that 
shift in my mind, it transformed

741
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,200
the way, I live my life and I 
think there are a lot of young 

742
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,100
people in general, that are 
beginning to think that way and 

743
00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:53,200
they're not enough, right? 
But we're at the beginning of 

744
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,200
this. 
This real transformation or 

745
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,300
shift in the way we live our 
lives and it takes more people 

746
00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:02,200
like you and me talking about 
it. 

747
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:05,000
So people can kind of like get 
their arms around the concept 

748
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,400
that hey, the world is changing 
and I would actually argue I 

749
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,900
ended up doing this research 
before I started the company and

750
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:17,500
I interviewed 150 guys that were
anywhere from 30 to 70 years 

751
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:19,600
old. 
And the most interesting thing 

752
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,500
that I found was the guys that 
felt like they were young in 

753
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:28,600
their mind and they didn't look 
at age as a limiting factor, 

754
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,000
looked 15 years younger and like
and literally, like I would meet

755
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,800
a 50 year old guy that felt like
he was seven years old because 

756
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,100
he gained a bunch of weight. 
He No, he had a really hard time

757
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:42,200
at home with his wife, his kids 
didn't like them. 

758
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,100
And he looked 20 years older 
than he was versus. 

759
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:47,500
I'd meet a 70 year old. 
That was like, man, my life is 

760
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:49,600
so great. 
I'm so excited about everything.

761
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,900
It has to offer. 
I'm grateful and he was 

762
00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:55,000
optimistic about the future of 
his life. 

763
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,800
He'd look, 20 years younger and 
so, so much of this is really 

764
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,000
rooted in the mindset that we 
bring to life every single day. 

765
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,400
And I think that in large, part 
of what we think about ourselves

766
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,700
as is, we're kind of rolling out
this blueprint for the next 

767
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,200
Generation to start thinking 
about life differently, 1000% 

768
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,900
agreement, and I feel like, I 
don't know how to put this 

769
00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:16,300
eloquently, like I don't know. 
I'm sure there is science 

770
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:17,700
behind. 
I don't know what the science is

771
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:22,000
but I'm a big believer in that. 
You think things into existence 

772
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,800
and it sounds really woo. 
But like that's just been my 

773
00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:26,400
experience with life like I 
never. 

774
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,000
I've been sick twice in my 
entire life and I never get sick

775
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,000
because I identify someone who 
never freaking get sick. 

776
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:36,000
You know, I'm passionate about 
life. 

777
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,400
I'm excited about my future. 
There's literally Not a single 

778
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,700
moment in my time where I think 
that the best is behind me. 

779
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:45,800
So many people, man, like it's 
exhausting listening to people 

780
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,000
who are constantly just reliving
their Glory Days of when they 

781
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,000
were playing football in high 
school, yet there 73 years old. 

782
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:53,700
Like, I don't understand that 
mentality. 

783
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:56,800
Like every single year that 
passes for me, is more exciting 

784
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,000
than the last, with that type of
mentality. 

785
00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:02,000
How can I possibly think that 
I'm over the hill? 

786
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,000
Like when you believe that your 
future is more exciting than 

787
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,200
your present, then your by 
definition likely, going to live

788
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,500
longer. 
Because You have something to 

789
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:15,300
live for a hundred percent. 
There's a there's a book right? 

790
00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:18,100
It's called Think and Grow Rich.
Have you ever given area? 

791
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:23,500
And so like the way that that 
book talks is is it's like and 

792
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:27,300
when you and you manifest your 
thoughts and they will collide 

793
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:31,900
with the particles of the world 
and your deepest wishes and 

794
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:35,100
desires will turn into reality 
and you're like, what the hell 

795
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:38,300
is this? 
There's a guy, his name is 

796
00:41:38,300 --> 00:41:40,400
Doctor. 
Joe dispenza and he wrote a man.

797
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,800
He's the one that did the 
Spartan Race. 

798
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,600
Yeah, and so his basic story is 
right. 

799
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,400
He had, he had a biking 
accident. 

800
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,600
His doctor said you'd never walk
again, he sat around and 

801
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,300
visualized his spine growing 
back and in some incredibly 

802
00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:56,600
short period of time he's up and
riding his bike again. 

803
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:03,900
And so he wrote this book, that 
talks about what I'll call the 

804
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:06,700
scientific or mechanical 
description, is how 

805
00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:09,500
manifestation works and keep in 
And there are parts of this 

806
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:11,600
book. 
That feel really woo if I'm 

807
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,200
going to be perfectly honest but
and it's a difficult read 

808
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,200
because you've got to go back 
and think through the chapters 

809
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,500
is not like a fast rate per se, 
but it definitely walks you 

810
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:25,300
through how that entire process 
works. 

811
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:28,400
And you're right, like all of it
does start though at the 

812
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,700
beginning of the day with you 
having a thought or a belief in 

813
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:35,900
your mind and following it 
through like a lot of people 

814
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:39,600
like they laugh at what Tony 
Robbins does and the Melody is 

815
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,700
for a lot of people. 
It is complete bullshit, but for

816
00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:46,300
the few that undergo to his 
seminars and understand how to 

817
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:50,300
unlock that, the that level of 
manifestation in their life, it 

818
00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:53,500
works it really important but 
you have to believe in. 

819
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:57,000
You got out of eat the dog food,
you better drink the Kool-Aid 

820
00:42:57,100 --> 00:42:58,900
and you've got to go all the way
in, right? 

821
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:02,200
It's kind of like are you 
familiar with the science of 

822
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,400
gratitude exercises? 
I'm not hundred phrase that way.

823
00:43:05,408 --> 00:43:08,800
No. 
So right when you wake up in the

824
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,100
morning, by the way, do you do 
gratitude gratitude exercises or

825
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:14,600
like journaling in the morning? 
I don't, I don't journal in the 

826
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,900
sense of like, you know, riding 
on a physical piece of paper, 

827
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:20,400
but I definitely do mindset 
where a gratitude work. 

828
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:22,700
You know, take time to be 
reflective and think about what 

829
00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:25,900
I'm grateful for, for sure. 
There's a there's a really good 

830
00:43:25,900 --> 00:43:28,500
app. 
It's called 5-minute journal and

831
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:32,300
so what it does, is you wake up 
in the morning, you write three 

832
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:34,700
things, you're grateful for you,
right? 

833
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,200
What are three things you want 
to accomplish? 

834
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,300
In that day and you have one 
kind of what I'll call like 

835
00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:42,000
mantra for that day and you 
attach a picture to it. 

836
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:44,500
And so one would say like that. 
Oh, that's a cute thing to get 

837
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:47,300
started, but the science of it 
is actually really interesting. 

838
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:52,700
Because when you first wake up, 
and your mind is still in what 

839
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:57,100
we'll call like in a 
contemplative State and you 

840
00:43:57,100 --> 00:44:00,600
start forcing yourself to think 
about what are things I'm 

841
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,600
grateful for and not think about
it only, but to write it down to

842
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,200
look at it, and then take a 
moment. 

843
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:08,900
To actually see what it feels 
like inside of you. 

844
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,800
And you do that every single 
day, for some prolonged period 

845
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,900
of time. 
You're basically conditioning 

846
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:20,700
your mind, and your subconscious
to start this process of 

847
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,100
thinking about the things in 
your life that are exciting and 

848
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:27,400
that make you feel happy. 
And then it'll be like a member.

849
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,100
The first time it happened. 
I was at a random lunch and it 

850
00:44:31,107 --> 00:44:33,700
was like 1:00 and normally 
because it's a little bit late. 

851
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:36,000
I'd be like, what the hell is 
going on? 

852
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,800
And I was with someone that was 
probably complaining actually, 

853
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,800
remember exactly where I was, 
but instead of me being like, 

854
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,400
why the fuck are you 
complaining? 

855
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,400
I was like, man, I just feel so 
grateful to be here with this 

856
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:53,200
person and being able to hear 
about what's making them upset. 

857
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,200
And I was like, whoa, what 
happened, what happened? 

858
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,300
And then all of a sudden you 
start to find yourself in the 

859
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:03,100
most random places going God, 
life is so great, no matter how 

860
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:05,300
bad the surrounding situation 
is. 

861
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:09,000
And so they I say that people 
that consistently practice 

862
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,600
gratitude and they're always 
acting from a place of abundance

863
00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:16,900
generally, end up being happy 
because they don't feel like 

864
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:19,700
they're afraid in this world. 
And when you're at a place of 

865
00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:25,000
comfort, you can actually do far
more, take on far, more risk in 

866
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,000
your life, from a much smarter 
place. 

867
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,900
And so, like, it actually, like 
is fascinating how it works. 

868
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,500
And then, once you practice it 
all of a sudden, you're like, 

869
00:45:35,500 --> 00:45:37,800
holy shit like This really isn't
Woo. 

870
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,700
Which just sounds. 
Whoa, no, I totally agree, man. 

871
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:43,400
I feel like I've dug really deep
into stoicism. 

872
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,300
I'm a big. 
I just love stoic, you know, 

873
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:48,600
philosophers. 
I love thinking through a stoic 

874
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,200
lens and I feel like once you 
gain that level of 

875
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,700
self-awareness, where you can, 
you know, arms to look at 

876
00:45:55,700 --> 00:45:58,000
yourself in the mirror and 
figure out what your what your 

877
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,400
strengths are, what your, what 
Your Grace attributes are what 

878
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,500
your greatest weaknesses are, 
and then view the world and all 

879
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:07,800
of your environmental factors 
the lens of Just reality as 

880
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,500
opposed to these manufactured 
things that you know pessimism 

881
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:14,700
are overly optimistic creation, 
you know entails. 

882
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:20,400
Then you just allow yourself to 
think very clearly and then 

883
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,800
you're able to act very clearly 
and I feel like so many people 

884
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:27,500
have have lost touch with who 
they are what they're capable of

885
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:31,300
and then with that they just 
have zero confidence and very 

886
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:34,600
little ability and that to me 
would be like that. 

887
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,100
That is the definition of hell 
right there. 

888
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:38,400
R. 
But if you are able to look 

889
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,500
through the world through a very
stoic glands and just simply act

890
00:46:41,500 --> 00:46:46,500
upon what your reality is in an 
emotionless State almost, but 

891
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:49,700
then in an effective State, like
your ability to perform at a 

892
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:52,200
high level and just create 
progress in your life is going 

893
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:57,300
to be exponentially. 
Amplified You know, it's so hard

894
00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:01,700
for people to do to separate 
themselves from who they believe

895
00:47:01,700 --> 00:47:05,200
they are emotionally because 
they've built this armor around 

896
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,600
themselves. 
That is based upon a narrative, 

897
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,400
right? 
I do it, you do it. 

898
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:13,400
And I think it takes a and to 
your point, like, I am a 

899
00:47:14,300 --> 00:47:17,800
die-hard follower of stoicism, 
and frankly, like as an 

900
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,500
entrepreneur, like you have to 
adopt that mindset if you're 

901
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:24,900
going to be successful in this 
particular world because it 

902
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,300
Nothing but a series of problems
and setbacks that anticipate 

903
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:31,700
they're coming. 
You get emotionless when they're

904
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:34,500
here. 
You can activate yourself and 

905
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:36,400
figure out how to get through 
them because you already knew it

906
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,200
was going to be nothing but a 
set of problems and you move on 

907
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,500
to through your day with 12 
problems on your shoulders that 

908
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:45,000
are just completely normal to 
you versus someone would crumble

909
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,700
with two or three. 
And I think the exercise that 

910
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:53,600
really helped me get through, it
was when I sold my first 

911
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,500
company. 
I ended up going to Thailand 

912
00:47:57,500 --> 00:48:00,700
with my girlfriend for like a 
for like two or three weeks. 

913
00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:03,900
And what I did is every day I 
woke up and I said to myself, 

914
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:08,400
like, What do I do? 
Well and I wrote everything I 

915
00:48:08,408 --> 00:48:11,200
did well and I really didn't 
care about that because I think 

916
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,000
I know what those things are. 
But the more importantly I said,

917
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,400
what are the things? 
I think I do bad and then I 

918
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,900
basically went to everyone. 
I worked with and I said, you 

919
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:23,100
tell me about how I'm not good 
and they said, are you sure? 

920
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:25,200
I said, I want you to just hold 
no bars. 

921
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,900
I want you to tell me how I can 
improve and then you go through 

922
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:31,900
a period where you look at it 
and you're like god, dammit like

923
00:48:31,900 --> 00:48:33,800
fuck you. 
No, no I'm not that way. 

924
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,900
And then you kind of like sit 
back objectively and real. 

925
00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:39,900
Sighs those things. 
I'm not good at don't Define me.

926
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:44,200
They are just a bunch of 
behaviors that I decided not to 

927
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,000
improve on. 
And if I want to improve on 

928
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,800
them, I can improve. 
And that eventually turned into,

929
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,500
like a hundred page manual on 
myself, literally, and I say to 

930
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:55,600
myself and basically, every 
month I go through and I say, 

931
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,000
which one of these habits do I 
care to improve some of them. 

932
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,900
I never do because frankly like 
I'm just going to go find 

933
00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:04,000
someone that's better and some 
of them I actually work on and I

934
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,400
think through that process, it 
helps Helped me understand that 

935
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,600
I shouldn't be emotional with 
feedback but actually I do 

936
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:15,100
nothing but welcome it and 
there's you know, Ray dalio is. 

937
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:18,200
What has he written for me? 
With that name? 

938
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,500
He's author, right? 
Yeah, well he did write a book 

939
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:25,700
called principles but imagine he
is one of the most successful 

940
00:49:25,700 --> 00:49:32,900
money managers of history. 
I mean history period And I can 

941
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:35,500
get into like the specifics of 
what he's done, but maybe like 

942
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:38,400
the The way to a kind of 
characterize it. 

943
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,800
As he has, he runs a firm called
Bridgewater. 

944
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,800
It's the most powerful Financial
firm in the in the world. 

945
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,200
And so what he actually did is 
he created a system of these 

946
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,700
principles, any one of them is 
radical Candor. 

947
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,000
And so, what that basically 
means is you are supposed to be 

948
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,500
incredibly transparent with the 
next person. 

949
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,600
But do it from a place of being 
constructive and the 

950
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,500
manifestation of that is in his 
meetings, they have a system 

951
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:10,100
where let's say, it's him the 
CEO, right? 

952
00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:12,900
The most sick, one of the most 
successful CEOs ever in history 

953
00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:16,100
period and then there is an 
entry-level associate that comes

954
00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:19,900
in and let's say there's three 
people in meeting each person 

955
00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:23,200
grades each other and each 
person gets to grade each other 

956
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,700
irrespective of their position 
and if Ray came in and did a 

957
00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:29,600
crappy job that day that 
person's allowed to say where 

958
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,900
you did a shitty job and raise 
supposed to go, you know what, 

959
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,900
you're right, let me think about
that and try to improve on it. 

960
00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:40,500
And if you imagine, it's the 
most difficult thing to do for 

961
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:43,300
most people. 
But it's really hard for really 

962
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:46,300
smart people to do because we 
always want to believe their 

963
00:50:46,300 --> 00:50:48,400
light, right? 
And so, if you can, think about 

964
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,300
the cultural challenges of 
bringing in the single, most 

965
00:50:51,300 --> 00:50:55,100
smart aggressive people in the 
fucking world, and basically 

966
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:59,100
saying, I want you to learn how 
to adopt this principle and I 

967
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:01,700
want you to be comfortable with 
it and not only be comfortable 

968
00:51:01,700 --> 00:51:04,000
with it, but I want you to 
embrace it because it's going to

969
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,700
make you better, right? 
And that that's the the ultimate

970
00:51:06,700 --> 00:51:09,300
for the penultimate like 
manifestation of how this thing 

971
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:14,000
actually turns into into 
practice and I think that if we 

972
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,200
tried doing it at our company, 
sometimes you succeed but really

973
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,600
at the end of the day, become so
difficult because we all have 

974
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,200
these these armors we hold on 
us. 

975
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,100
That if someone hits it a little
bit too hard You're Gonna Want 

976
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:29,800
to Break and it all goes towards
the comment you made around 

977
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,200
stoic philosophy which is you've
got to learn how to be 

978
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,600
unemotional about it, right? 
So you oh, go ahead. 

979
00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:39,800
I feel I feel like so many 
people because I love that kind 

980
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,200
of stuff. 
Like I love, like I'll ask 

981
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,900
people all the time. 
What do I do? 

982
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:49,300
Good where do I, you know, go 
awry, not because I want them to

983
00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:51,500
tell me how great I am. 
Like, I would much rather prefer

984
00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:54,100
they tell me all the bad things 
are going to focus on them 

985
00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:55,500
because I want to improve on 
that. 

986
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:58,300
But I don't really come in 
contact with me people that do 

987
00:51:58,300 --> 00:51:59,800
that and maybe it's because 
that's a fault. 

988
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:00,900
Mm. 
Oh maybe I need to just surround

989
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:05,400
myself with different people but
I think that type of honest 

990
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,700
transparent, Aunt, feedback is 
how we grow. 

991
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,000
And in fact, a lot of people 
aren't willing to get that 

992
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,200
honest, brutal feedback because 
they lack confidence in who they

993
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,000
are. 
I mean, I can confidently say 

994
00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:20,900
that I'm not the greatest at 
many different things, but I'm 

995
00:52:20,900 --> 00:52:24,100
confident who I am, you know, as
a being. 

996
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:27,300
So if I'm not good at certain 
things, I can take that negative

997
00:52:27,300 --> 00:52:30,600
feedback and then actually work 
to improve it as a pot, as 

998
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,800
opposed to just letting my 
identity crumble because I was 

999
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,600
built out of a house of cards so
to speak. 100%. 

1000
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,900
And it's I'll tell you, it's 
really hard for people that 

1001
00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:50,200
aren't open to thinking 
Differently to to really hope to

1002
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,200
really grab onto. 
Because they tend to think that 

1003
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:58,600
it is a salt on their personal 
identity. 

1004
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,800
Like I'll give you you know, to 
interesting examples my 

1005
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,700
girlfriend and I when we first 
started dating, you know I'm an 

1006
00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:06,700
entrepreneur, she became an 
entrepreneur probably like two 

1007
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:10,300
years in and I having these 
conversations with her like 

1008
00:53:10,300 --> 00:53:12,200
being really Frank and honest 
and if you've been in a 

1009
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,900
relationship, it's the worst 
thing you can do. 

1010
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,300
Figure. 
Like, let me tell you why, 

1011
00:53:18,300 --> 00:53:20,700
you're why you're wrong and I 
don't want you to be emotional. 

1012
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:24,500
And God, that is like the 
biggest recipe for disaster. 

1013
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,600
And what I realized after having
enough conversations is that she

1014
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,000
felt threatened that I was 
coming after her and pointing my

1015
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,500
finger and what we ended up 
doing is we ended up having a 

1016
00:53:35,508 --> 00:53:38,400
conversation about the purpose 
of the conversation and then we 

1017
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,200
get on a whiteboard now, hmm. 
So every month or so we get on a

1018
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,500
whiteboard we talk about how 
we're feeling. 

1019
00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:46,300
What do we want to improve? 
What do we do? 

1020
00:53:46,300 --> 00:53:49,200
What Could be doing better as 
partners and that was actually 

1021
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,500
like a huge transformational 
shift and I realize that was the

1022
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:54,700
tool for her that that made it 
acceptable. 

1023
00:53:55,100 --> 00:54:00,300
And in like, another example is,
I got an executive at my company

1024
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:02,700
and I did an interview with 
someone and, you know, one of 

1025
00:54:02,707 --> 00:54:11,600
the questions I ask is Are you? 
How bad do you want this? 

1026
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,000
And if someone says, they don't 
want this job so bad or they're,

1027
00:54:15,100 --> 00:54:17,600
you know, they're going to give 
it them salt, their entire 

1028
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,800
selves to it. 
I say it's not the right fit 

1029
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:22,700
because frankly like with these 
kind of companies, if you're not

1030
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:28,400
all in because that's what the 
culture is, Everyone knows it's 

1031
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,500
a bad decision for us to bad 
decision for you. 

1032
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,600
And so this, this particular 
person said, you know what, I 

1033
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,000
don't want the job because you 
made me feel uncomfortable. 

1034
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,500
I said, I that's wonderful. 
God bless you. 

1035
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:42,300
Thank you so much for that. 
And this executive came to me. 

1036
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:46,000
He said, you can't talk to any 
more of my people anymore and I 

1037
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,700
said, are you crazy? 
I said let me tell you the way 

1038
00:54:48,700 --> 00:54:51,300
the world works, the way the 
world works is you come and tell

1039
00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:55,200
me what you think I did. 
That could have turned this 

1040
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,100
person off and one of the very I
can open conversation about it 

1041
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,300
and then I'll tell you, if I 
want to change your not and he 

1042
00:55:01,300 --> 00:55:03,800
said, wait, you want, you're 
willing to have that 

1043
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,800
conversation would be. 
I said, absolutely. 

1044
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,100
He said, I've never had never 
had someone. 

1045
00:55:09,100 --> 00:55:13,000
I've worked with that. 
Wants to be told how to improve 

1046
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:13,800
themselves. 
That's it. 

1047
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,800
That's the only way you figure 
out how to get better. 

1048
00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:19,900
Yeah, I really think it it 
starts and it's going to start 

1049
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:22,700
from you to the next person. 
You know, you can't have you 

1050
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:24,800
just say I'm going to surround 
myself only with people that are

1051
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,900
acceptable. 
That think that way. 

1052
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,700
I mean that list a small and 
really it's taking the kind of 

1053
00:55:31,707 --> 00:55:36,100
like the gift that you have and 
trying to give it to other 

1054
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:39,200
people that I think is going to 
be more effective. 

1055
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,200
Yeah, I mean, you have to lead, 
by example, like that's it's 

1056
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,400
used so much that has become 
cliche at this point, but it's 

1057
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,300
so true. 
I mean, I don't ask anything of 

1058
00:55:47,300 --> 00:55:50,900
any of my employees that I would
not be willing to do as well. 

1059
00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:54,600
And that includes receiving 
constructive criticism and 

1060
00:55:54,700 --> 00:55:57,600
feedback. 
Because I feel like if you If 

1061
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,200
you Foster a relationship in 
which that is okay, that is the 

1062
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,400
president. 
That is the standard, then 

1063
00:56:03,700 --> 00:56:07,600
communication and information 
can free flow at such a better 

1064
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,700
more, you know, more efficient, 
right? 

1065
00:56:11,100 --> 00:56:14,400
If you don't have that and 
things fester, and then things, 

1066
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:16,500
you know, manifest into this 
negativity. 

1067
00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:20,600
Like this, this, this hush-hush 
tone in the workplace that just 

1068
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:25,000
is a Cancer and that is going to
be what cripples any company. 

1069
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,000
Oh, I could not agree more. 
I could not agree more. 

1070
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,000
You've gotta you gotta come at 
something, once you feel it, you

1071
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:37,000
gotta break the ice or break 
some glass. 

1072
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,700
So to speak, they say that the 
success of someone can be 

1073
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:43,500
measured by the number of 
uncomfortable conversations, 

1074
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:47,900
they're willing to have because 
when you break that glass and 

1075
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:51,500
have that uncomfortable 
conversation either falls apart,

1076
00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:53,000
it's good because it means 
you're on to the next thing 

1077
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,700
that's better for you. 
Or you can kind of say, let's Ed

1078
00:56:56,700 --> 00:56:58,700
over our differences. 
Let's have a very open and 

1079
00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:01,300
transparent conversation about 
how we can make this thing work 

1080
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,800
and let's move on. 
Yeah, now this is totally 

1081
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:06,600
maggots. 
Not topic based off the 

1082
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,100
conversation we're having now, 
but when it comes to kind of 

1083
00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:11,200
example were given about having 
these hard conversations and 

1084
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,600
bringing out people's honesty 
with you know, whether or not 

1085
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,500
they were a good fit for the 
company culture. 

1086
00:57:16,100 --> 00:57:19,600
What I've found to be a 
challenge is when it comes to 

1087
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,600
hiring a really, really good 
people. 

1088
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,900
The me is the business owner, 
I'm sure you can live with this 

1089
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:28,100
as well. 
Like you can't really expect 

1090
00:57:28,100 --> 00:57:31,300
anybody to be as passionate as 
you are because it's not your 

1091
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:32,800
thing. 
But at the same time you want 

1092
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,600
people to have this go you know 
get her mentality and just be 

1093
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:41,200
freaking Killers. 
But oftentimes those people with

1094
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,600
that type of mentality are 
better suited and want to 

1095
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,100
become, you know, owners of 
their own companies. 

1096
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:52,000
So how do you find people like 
that that are wanting to be, you

1097
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,400
know, like the not the CEO, not 
the head but rather one of the 

1098
00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:59,400
Remember the team and not their 
own their own boss. 

1099
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:06,300
So to speak. 
I actually tell you when I built

1100
00:58:06,300 --> 00:58:14,100
my first company. 
I spent a lot of time doing and 

1101
00:58:14,100 --> 00:58:20,100
what I mean by that is I 
executed really hard and I was 

1102
00:58:20,100 --> 00:58:22,800
probably the smartest person in 
the room which is a horrible 

1103
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,000
thing because it means because 
I'm not that intelligent. 

1104
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,500
It means I was probably in the 
wrong room and I know it sounds 

1105
00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:32,300
cliche but the biggest learning 
I took away from that is I need 

1106
00:58:32,300 --> 00:58:35,200
to work with people that are far
smarter and more intelligent 

1107
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,500
than me.. 
That if I when I meet someone 

1108
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:42,900
and I'm intimidated by their 
intelligence, And I think that 

1109
00:58:42,900 --> 00:58:46,600
we fit together and share a 
similar set of values. 

1110
00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:48,800
I will beg them to come work for
us. 

1111
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,600
Yeah. 
And, and so, would that 

1112
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,000
generally means is right now, 
I'll even tell you like my 

1113
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,800
co-founders. 
One of them took her last 

1114
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,400
company from 0 to 50 million 
dollars in two years, right? 

1115
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,700
She's arguably the best paid 
marketer. 

1116
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,600
That I've ever met and the way 
that I got to know where was 

1117
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,800
she's? 
An Albanian immigrant that came 

1118
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,400
to this country and her name is 
album or tear out when she was. 

1119
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,100
18. 
Didn't speak any English but 

1120
00:59:18,100 --> 00:59:21,500
somehow taught herself, English 
figured out how to bring her 

1121
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:25,900
parents here and then got 
herself a full ride to NYU 

1122
00:59:26,700 --> 00:59:29,500
within a year. 
And after I met her and 

1123
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:32,100
understood kind of who works 
with her tenacity level, it look

1124
00:59:32,100 --> 00:59:34,800
like and we're huge both of us 
on family. 

1125
00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:39,700
I was like our values align and 
I have to respect you for what 

1126
00:59:39,700 --> 00:59:44,200
you're good at and I want you to
come work with me and help me. 

1127
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:45,700
Help me build this company, 
right? 

1128
00:59:45,700 --> 00:59:48,700
And it's the same way I've 
another co-founder Stewart and 

1129
00:59:48,707 --> 00:59:52,800
other co-founder matte ones 
named Seth and Zach and we all 

1130
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:58,000
share a very similar kind of 
passion and desire to want to be

1131
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,300
really good and want to build 
something that's incredibly 

1132
01:00:00,300 --> 01:00:05,700
impactful in people's lives. 
And then what I do is The 

1133
01:00:05,700 --> 01:00:07,600
biggest learning one of the 
biggest learnings I had is I 

1134
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,900
probably spend 30% of my time. 
Recruiting, what that means is, 

1135
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,000
I speak to a lot of people and 
there are a lot of people that 

1136
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,300
feel like they're great 
candidates and they say that 

1137
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:21,800
they would work really hard and 
they care about the business. 

1138
01:00:22,500 --> 01:00:26,600
But they, there's this 
intangible component of who they

1139
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,200
are. 
That just doesn't line up with 

1140
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,200
ourselves is like a 
mission-driven company. 

1141
01:00:30,700 --> 01:00:33,300
And so we spent a lot of time 
understanding what their values 

1142
01:00:33,300 --> 01:00:35,700
are. 
We also put together Either a 

1143
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:39,700
really dense case and the case 
has no right? 

1144
01:00:39,700 --> 01:00:41,900
Or wrong answer, it's actually 
very complicated. 

1145
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:44,500
Probably takes 12 hours to do 13
hours to do. 

1146
01:00:44,900 --> 01:00:50,000
And when an executive completes 
it based upon how they present, 

1147
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,100
based upon how detailed they 
get, we have a pretty good 

1148
01:00:53,100 --> 01:00:55,400
understanding whether they're 
willing to go all the way in. 

1149
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,400
But I guess like more 
importantly, the thing that my 

1150
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,000
co-founders and I and a lot of 
the people in the business all 

1151
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,900
have in common is we love 
playing in the dirt. 

1152
01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:08,400
What that means is, we are all 
executors by nature and no 

1153
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,400
matter how big the company gets 
and argue, like, we're pretty 

1154
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,900
big at this point in time. 
We always get worked on 

1155
01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:19,700
ourselves alongside with the 
rest of the employees to show 

1156
01:01:19,700 --> 01:01:21,600
them, were all in because it 
makes sure that we understand 

1157
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,400
the problems really well. 
And there's actually, you know, 

1158
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:29,300
the moment you have executive 
that's like, hey I I'll just 

1159
01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:30,300
we'll go hire someone to do 
that. 

1160
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:33,300
You're like, no, literally roll 
up your damn sleeves. 

1161
01:01:33,700 --> 01:01:36,000
Go figure out the problem and go
fix it yourself. 

1162
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:39,500
We know, they're the wrong fit 
immediately and granted right to

1163
01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:44,200
your first point. 
There are going to be very few 

1164
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,600
people that are willing to push 
as hard as you and that's the 

1165
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,300
reality of it. 
But there are people that are 

1166
01:01:49,300 --> 01:01:52,000
willing to push really hard 
because they know this could 

1167
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,600
make their career. 
They know that they're doing 

1168
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:56,900
this because they have a little 
bit of a chip on their shoulder.

1169
01:01:57,300 --> 01:02:00,500
And I think it's it's finding 
those people that are really 

1170
01:02:00,500 --> 01:02:05,300
hungry and have the same set of 
values and want legitimately get

1171
01:02:05,300 --> 01:02:08,500
joy from doing the work that we 
generally look to hire. 

1172
01:02:08,500 --> 01:02:12,500
And when we find them, I mean, 
I'm telling you we go all Yeah, 

1173
01:02:12,500 --> 01:02:15,300
whatever Park to give them 
whatever they want to get paid 

1174
01:02:15,300 --> 01:02:18,200
because we know that one really 
true Mission driven person. 

1175
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,400
That's intelligent that you can 
trust. 

1176
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:24,900
And has Integrity is probably 
worth 56, kind of like mediocre 

1177
01:02:24,900 --> 01:02:27,300
employees. 
Totally, totally agree with 

1178
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:30,500
that. 
I feel like, I feel like there 

1179
01:02:30,500 --> 01:02:36,400
is a certain element of tenacity
that comes with people. 

1180
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:40,600
That have lived, a life that 
they do not want to continue. 

1181
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,500
Like when you live a very Be 
comfortable life and you have 

1182
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:47,600
from the get-go, you almost not 
exclusively. 

1183
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,700
But I found that when you live a
really comfortable life from the

1184
01:02:51,900 --> 01:02:57,700
right at the gates, your level 
of tenacity, towards escaping, 

1185
01:02:58,100 --> 01:03:00,900
where you're at, to get to. 
The next level is just 

1186
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:03,500
diminished and I'd be curious to
get your thoughts on that being 

1187
01:03:03,500 --> 01:03:06,200
an immigrant and talking of her.
Who's also an immigrant, like, 

1188
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:10,300
do you feel like, you know, 
going through this incredible 

1189
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:17,700
adversity Yield some intangible 
sense of just hustle That You 

1190
01:03:17,707 --> 01:03:20,600
Don't See and people that seem 
to have it pretty easy, right 

1191
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:26,200
out the gate. 
I don't know if it's just an 

1192
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:33,400
immigrant thing per say, and 
I'll say this, I've got five 

1193
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,400
co-founders from my business, 
all of them work equally as 

1194
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,500
hard. 
Two of us are immigrants. 

1195
01:03:41,900 --> 01:03:45,100
Two of us are from what I'll 
call or I'll call the three of 

1196
01:03:45,100 --> 01:03:48,500
us or from what I'll call low 
income families. 

1197
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,100
And one of us is from what I'll 
call, like probably Ultra 

1198
01:03:52,100 --> 01:03:55,600
high-net-worth. 
Hmm, everyone works just as hard

1199
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:59,100
with the chip on their shoulder.
So I don't know, I think your 

1200
01:03:59,100 --> 01:04:02,500
statement is probably correct in
that many immigrants because 

1201
01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:05,400
they've had to struggle. 
Probably, our feel like struggle

1202
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,700
is more normal and because they 
want to prove themselves in this

1203
01:04:09,100 --> 01:04:12,100
new world or willing to go in 
harder as a Shin of the 

1204
01:04:12,100 --> 01:04:14,800
population is probably higher. 
Think it's probably a very true 

1205
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,600
statement, but I wouldn't want 
to generalize it because I know 

1206
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,500
people that work that not work 
is the wrong way. 

1207
01:04:21,500 --> 01:04:24,200
They want it, just as bad, and 
they're willing to put 

1208
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:28,400
themselves on the line that are 
there's actually one of one of 

1209
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:32,300
the co-founders I have. 
He's an amazing guy. 

1210
01:04:32,300 --> 01:04:34,600
You never know it is. 
Parents are like incredibly well

1211
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,800
healed and when he when he came 
in and wanted to start the 

1212
01:04:38,808 --> 01:04:40,800
company, he said, look, I'm 
going to be executive and I 

1213
01:04:40,808 --> 01:04:43,700
said, Hey look, I don't think 
your I said, I don't think you 

1214
01:04:43,700 --> 01:04:47,400
have it honestly, and he said, 
no, I'm going to prove it to you

1215
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,900
and I said, I'm telling you man,
like probably one of my 

1216
01:04:49,900 --> 01:04:52,000
strongest qualities is like 
assessing talent and I think 

1217
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,000
that this might be a little bit 
outside of your reach right now 

1218
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,800
and I was brutally honest with 
him and for since the moment I 

1219
01:04:57,808 --> 01:05:00,900
said that he has had a chip on 
his shoulder and that kid has 

1220
01:05:00,900 --> 01:05:05,100
crushed it and worked, and is 
one of the single most reliable 

1221
01:05:05,100 --> 01:05:09,200
people we have. 
And, I mean, I like I'm lucky to

1222
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:15,000
call my brother and so, I just 
don't think it's either or I 

1223
01:05:15,008 --> 01:05:18,300
think you can definitely be 
both, but I wouldn't say that. 

1224
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,200
The Immigrant mentality. 
We definitely grew up on the 

1225
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:30,100
Poor Side and my father, he was 
a, he was a particle physicist. 

1226
01:05:30,100 --> 01:05:33,100
And so when we were younger, he 
was a student and eventually he 

1227
01:05:33,100 --> 01:05:35,800
became a full tenured position. 
And we were very fortunate to 

1228
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,000
kind of like move to nicer 
neighborhoods every probably 

1229
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:44,100
five years growing up and my 
blessing. 

1230
01:05:45,300 --> 01:05:48,100
And honestly, it was really a 
blessing and I just won the won.

1231
01:05:48,100 --> 01:05:50,600
The lottery, is it had a mom 
that love the hell out of me? 

1232
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,400
And I had a fight and it was 
really smart. 

1233
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:53,600
Had a father. 
That was brilliant. 

1234
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:54,900
Actually. 
Yeah. 

1235
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,400
And I think, I think a lot of it
has to do with kind of with who 

1236
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,900
you have around you and kind of 
what they pre-program your into 

1237
01:06:01,900 --> 01:06:03,900
your head at an early age as 
well. 

1238
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,400
You know, I totally gave that 
man, like we've got a 8 week old

1239
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:12,200
kiddo now and I've, I'm really 
thinking a lot about parenting 

1240
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,200
strategies and how I want. 
Like the type of values that I 

1241
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:18,400
want to instill in him because 
there's so many ways to do it 

1242
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,100
and there's not any, you know, 
parenting guide book out there, 

1243
01:06:22,500 --> 01:06:24,800
you know, that you get handed it
their birth. 

1244
01:06:24,900 --> 01:06:28,600
So you kind of have to just go 
through life and you take that 

1245
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,100
and you do with it as you may, 
but it really like, have you 

1246
01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:35,600
have kids? 
I don't, we're trying right now,

1247
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,100
but I can I can I guess 
empathize with what you're 

1248
01:06:39,100 --> 01:06:42,000
talking about because I've given
it a lot of thought ourselves. 

1249
01:06:42,100 --> 01:06:43,900
Yeah. 
And it's weird because a lot of 

1250
01:06:43,900 --> 01:06:47,600
people use kids as a A scapegoat
and it disgusts me honestly. 

1251
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:53,300
But for me, I look at having him
as an opportunity to just 

1252
01:06:53,300 --> 01:06:57,900
really, really be reflective and
just gained a greater sense of 

1253
01:06:57,900 --> 01:07:00,600
clarity in my own life, you 
know, selfishly. 

1254
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,400
But then also more clarity for 
him talk, hopefully to his 

1255
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:07,000
betterment where I can just 
figure out the person that I 

1256
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,900
want to be the person that I 
want him to see me as how I want

1257
01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:12,300
to raise him. 
How I want to present myself as 

1258
01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:14,900
a father husband business owner 
leader. 

1259
01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:19,800
And I feel like when you have a 
kid you're just forced to be 

1260
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:24,500
brutally honest with the man in 
the mirror and you can no longer

1261
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,700
take shortcuts, you can no 
longer, you know, you can no 

1262
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:30,600
longer leave anything to chance 
because your actions are 

1263
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,500
directly impacting. 
Some of that is relying 100% 

1264
01:07:33,500 --> 01:07:36,600
solely on you. 
So, it's a pretty great 

1265
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:38,800
opportunity. 
If you're willing to do the work

1266
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:43,300
that accompanies that I feel, 
And you know what, your I 

1267
01:07:43,300 --> 01:07:46,200
haven't had that forcing 
function per se quite yet. 

1268
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,600
I think it's very different 
that, you know, when you've been

1269
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,900
been a leader in your, the 
people that you're working with 

1270
01:07:52,900 --> 01:07:56,100
or looking towards you for 
guidance, versus this is your 

1271
01:07:56,100 --> 01:07:59,900
child and they're going to 
probably pick up everything you 

1272
01:07:59,900 --> 01:08:04,400
do in a far more visceral level 
because they're around you 24 

1273
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:08,400
hours a day. 
Yeah, I can say when I see the 

1274
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:12,300
biggest shifts in the guys that 
I With is when they have kids 

1275
01:08:12,500 --> 01:08:16,899
we've had we've had 6 home 
babies last year and all of them

1276
01:08:16,899 --> 01:08:21,200
are to what I'll call late 
20-something early. 

1277
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:27,399
Something super like manly men, 
that were former athletes that 

1278
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:31,800
went, that went to good schools 
that are really hungry and the 

1279
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:35,100
moment they have their children,
they changed and for the better,

1280
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:38,100
right? 
They calm down a little bit. 

1281
01:08:38,399 --> 01:08:43,100
They find so much. 
We the number of babies we see 

1282
01:08:43,100 --> 01:08:46,399
on our stand ups on a daily 
basis is actually pretty amazing

1283
01:08:46,700 --> 01:08:49,100
when they're they're literally 
taking a call and they have 

1284
01:08:49,100 --> 01:08:52,200
their babies in their arms but 
day of understood that it is 

1285
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,300
their Journey actually like 
their journey is not this 

1286
01:08:55,300 --> 01:08:57,500
company their journey and their 
mission in life is to make sure 

1287
01:08:57,500 --> 01:08:59,399
they raise a one hell of a 
child, right? 

1288
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:01,200
And it's, it's a very real 
thing. 

1289
01:09:01,500 --> 01:09:04,000
Yeah. 
And ideally that parallels, you 

1290
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,200
know, nicely with what they're 
doing in your company. 

1291
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,800
I mean like you as the, you 
know, company founder 

1292
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,500
co-founder. 
You're one of your jobs is to 

1293
01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:15,600
create an environment that 
causes growth at an extreme 

1294
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,700
level for everyone involved for 
the better. 

1295
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,200
So I mean it should be like a 
pretty symbiotic relationship. 

1296
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:23,500
Yeah. 
I mean I hope so. 

1297
01:09:23,500 --> 01:09:26,200
I hope I hope I get to do a good
job and set up set a great 

1298
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,000
example for them but I'll tell 
you, I learn from them, probably

1299
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,000
as much as I learn from myself 
because they're going through 

1300
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,200
this experience before I am. 
And I know I'll be asking them 

1301
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,000
for advice. 
I've got if I've, you know, at 

1302
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:40,399
the end. 
No. 

1303
01:09:40,500 --> 01:09:43,700
Ali man will shoot, brother. 
We're over an hour in our, we 

1304
01:09:43,707 --> 01:09:45,899
have probably got to join other 
hormonal questions, but then we 

1305
01:09:45,899 --> 01:09:48,300
took this tangent off on, you 
know, business in mindset. 

1306
01:09:48,300 --> 01:09:50,399
Which I'm glad we did because I 
can talk about this stuff all 

1307
01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:52,500
day long. 
Yeah, this is perfect. 

1308
01:09:52,500 --> 01:09:55,600
I actually got to got to make a 
run here myself so this is like 

1309
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,200
perfect timing and like I really
appreciate the tangent. 

1310
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,100
I think it's great that. 
I love meeting guys that think 

1311
01:10:02,100 --> 01:10:06,400
the same way and kind of Live 
their life in accordance to 

1312
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:10,100
those values because the reality
is like I hate to say this. 

1313
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,800
Having an adopting, this mindset
really is better than the one 

1314
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,300
that I think most people kind of
like just grow up and accepting 

1315
01:10:16,300 --> 01:10:18,100
the one that school teaches us. 
Yeah. 

1316
01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:20,400
And it's not that we want to put
ourselves on a pedestal but we 

1317
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:24,900
see people that go through that 
stereotypical mindset and they 

1318
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:27,400
just seem unhappy. 
I don't want unhappiness for 

1319
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,500
anybody. 
That's that's really well said 

1320
01:10:30,500 --> 01:10:35,600
and it's not, I think the other 
point is that it's not putting 

1321
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,100
the mind set on a pedestal and 
it's just one way to think it 

1322
01:10:39,100 --> 01:10:42,000
is, at least for me personally, 
based upon what I'm trying to 

1323
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,700
get out of life. 
One, that's taken 40 years to 

1324
01:10:45,700 --> 01:10:49,700
really carefully, think about, 
and cultivate and put the wraps 

1325
01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:52,700
in in order to get there. 
And I think that once everyone 

1326
01:10:52,700 --> 01:10:56,100
identifies, what that mindset is
for them, it really is just 

1327
01:10:56,100 --> 01:10:58,400
going through the work. 
Yeah, 100% man. 

1328
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:00,700
Real quick, brother, where 
people go to find out more about

1329
01:11:00,700 --> 01:11:02,500
you your company and just a 
little deeper. 

1330
01:11:03,300 --> 01:11:08,400
So company is called hone. 
Its honey2 site is hone 

1331
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:16,800
health.com, they can find me at 
Salam, it's sa L am at home 

1332
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,000
health.com, or you can find me 
on Instagram that's MSI. 

1333
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,600
Dalam MSA Ada L. 
Am on Instagram. 

1334
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,300
Awesome man. 
Well, let's definitely keep in 

1335
01:11:26,300 --> 01:11:28,200
touch if we get Kindred Spirits 
for sure. 

1336
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:29,700
There's everything I could do 
for you man. 

1337
01:11:29,700 --> 01:11:32,500
Definitely don't hesitate to 
reach out and let me know for 

1338
01:11:32,500 --> 01:11:34,000
sure man. 
Thanks so much and thanks to 

1339
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,500
everyone for listening to us. 
Take care bud. 

1340
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:37,900
I've been later.