What is going on ladies and gentleman, we got Robert Sykes,
keto Savage.com and special guests.
Chris Irving on the line today. Chris, how you doing, man?
Good, thanks for having me today.
Robert, absolutely. So tell everybody who are you
and what do you do? All right.
Yeah, so like you said my name is Chris.
Irvin I am the director of content for ketogenic.com so
that's just a fancy word for. I'm the guy that does a lot of
writing and you know making the social media posts and
everything like that. For the website, my background
it with Quito is No, when I when I graduated from my undergrad, I
came down to the University of Tampa to get my masters in
exercise and nutrition science and that I got to study under
dr. Wilson, who's a, you know, a big
figurehead and the keto and sports performance realm.
So I got to study under him for a year getting my masters, and
got to do some really cool, keto research in the lab there.
And then, you know, I really started getting passionate about
actually I can't tell people the thing to kind of shift.
My focus from Sports Performance, you know, into some
other areas of Quito, I picked up the book tripping over the
truth by Travis Kristofferson. And if you guys haven't read
that, that's a phenomenal book. But I picked up that book
started reading about Quito and Therapeutics got really
passionate about it and I was really fortunate enough to get
to land a an opportunity doing some interning with dr.
Poff and .n dr. D'Agostino's lab down at USF,
which is a really cool opportunity.
And then from There. I just, you know, decided that
it was time to start putting all this stuff out there and trying
to educate the world on keto and that's kind of how the ketogenic
things charging started to come about.
And how long have you been doing the ketogenic diet?
Come now and total. So been working on it for about
two years eighteen months to two years right now, but we launched
the website for the first time last November.
And if anybody followed us at that point, they saw really bad
version of the website. When it first went up, We've,
you know, I feel like we've continued to improve and over
the last year, we've gotten to a point where I, you know, I think
everything looks pretty nice. And our social game has gotten a
lot better. So, yeah.
It's been a little bit over 18 months so far.
Yeah. And I mean every time I click on
yellow stuff, I mean you're killing it.
This good relevant content, it's easily digested.
I mean, it's good stuff. It's, you can have it your
exposure at your fingertips, right there and get a good
nugget of information. Yeah.
And that's kind of what we what we wanted to go for like, you
know, coming from a little bit of a research background.
Ground. I had so much respect for a lot
of these doctors and researchers that are doing all this great
stuff on keto. But the problem is a lot of that
work gets lost in these journals that, you know, people people
either don't have access to or they don't really have the
ability to sit down and understand it.
And that's kind of how this all came about.
As it was trying to take that really highly respected quality
work and putting it in a way that general population could
not only understand it, but apply to their life.
So that's kind of been what the missions been so far.
I like it, I like it. So What the festive about about
like your your kids, an experience, like, what got you
into doing the diet and how long have you been doing the diet and
living that lifestyle, you know, as an individual?
Yeah. So I've been doing it for about
two and a half years. Now, I started doing it, it was
actually in like June of 2015 and I had just come down to the
University of Tampa, and my first class was Sports Nutrition
with dr. Wilson And day one of Sports
Nutrition. Of course, he started talking
about keto and I had heard about keto probably four months prior.
I had gone to a conference where I actually heard like dr.
Volek and dr. D Agostino talk, but I didn't
even know who they were yet at the time and so I you know I
didn't really know much about Quito and F is actually after
that first class with dr. Wilson that I just decided like,
you know what, I'm going to do Quito and I jumped in the next
day, I had no idea what I was doing.
I was just eating, you know, bacon and beef.
And, you know, I definitely went through some trials and
tribulations trying to, you know, get the diet working out
for me. I had some keto, flu bouts and,
you know, dealt with a lot of that stuff.
But you know, it took me probably a good.
I would say, three, four months of really educating myself
before, I felt like I had it locked down.
And now, you know, you know, to you two and a half years later,
I feel like it's just been a breeze.
My biggest reason for doing it is I really enjoy the - benefit,
you know, even if all other health benefits aside the, you
know, ability to focus and, you know, sit down and read research
and, you know, write and do everything.
I feel like has been enhanced in such started Quito, so that's
kind of been my biggest benefit from it.
So you've been, you've been key to two and a half years now.
No, no carb interruption in that time.
So, my first year, I actually, I spent my first year, completely
carb-free. And then since then, you know, I
had something like, you know, if I were to go, Home, you know,
back to see my family and stuff. If my mom had some home cooking,
you know. I would enjoy that stuff.
I've been probably a little more lenient over the last year, but
you know, that's and that kind of brings up like a big thing.
Like, what something I always tell people is that if you, you
know, stay really strict with keto when you first start, if
you can get yourself to get like six months to a year of really
like sticking to it and and you know, following the the diet
pretty strictly. You can set yourself up to a
point where, you know, Later on if you don't have any conditions
and you're just doing keto for the general health benefits, you
can get away with, you know, having, you know, of some carbs
here and there or if you know, decide you go, you know, go home
and you want to enjoy some of your mom's cookies, or something
like that. Like, you can get away with that
a little more, but the problem is, a lot of people do that to
first six months on keto. And if you do that, you never
really get fully fat adapted. So, the point where you can, you
know, kind of be able to benefit from both sources.
So yeah, I think so. You know, for the most I would
say That now it's I'm staying pretty strict with it.
But, you know, if something pops up where, you know, I'm, I'm
back home or something, then I'll let myself have a little
freedom. I love to talk with you.
About the difference between being in ketosis and being key
to adapt to defend that took that comes up a lot with you
know all of my clients and what not.
But I mean people assume that as soon as they're there millimolar
blood ketones you know, meet your meat or above 0.5.
They're going to go but like I've been Adapt for about two
and a half three years now as well.
And I said by, you know, my last six months to be better than my
first six months, he'd probably say the same thing, like your
body. Just keeps becoming more and
more efficient as you go. Mmm.
Yeah. And that's kind of something
that what that's a big reason why I tell people not to get
super worried about tracking their blood ketones when they
first start off because a lot of people will get either too
excited or they'll get discouraged based on what
they're seeing on that meter and you know, that we can talk about
this after. But the meters, not even really
a clear indication. Of what's going on.
But you know, a lot of people you can produce ketones in your
blood, that would be considered in nutritional ketosis with the
you know, some people can do that within a day if you
incorporate some fasting and whatnot but you know anybody
who's done the diet knows that you know a day 3 days a week end
you're definitely not feeling the way you should feel if you
were truly fat adapted so that and that's kind of the biggest
difference of you know between being in ketosis and being fat
adapted. And you know what I always tell
people is when You start feeling those benefits of Quito, like
the increased energy Focus, you start feeling like you're a lot
more full, your Cravings have gone away.
That's when you know that you're more keto adapted because, you
know that you're utilizing fat better and you are actually
using ketones as fuel rather than just producing them.
And kind of that difference between, you know, being in
ketosis can mean just producing ketones, but being key to
adapted means you're using ketones.
Absolutely, I think, People ask me about know that that Ki toh
Hai, they first experience in the first month or so.
And then how that Wayne's, you know, as they get further in,
and I'm not sure that the high Wayne's, I just think it's
become, it's more relevant that first month because you have
like, what it was like to eat carbs, freshen your memory and
then as you're in ketosis longer, that that Wayne's.
So it doesn't seem as a stark contrast.
Do you know that? Yeah, I mean it's what ends up
happening is it kind of becomes your new normal Arm.
Like, you know, before when you were before you were following a
keto diet, you know, you probably eat a meal, it's heavy
and carbs and, you know, you feel probably tired and
lethargic after and, you know, then you switch to Quito.
And that first month you start getting like, I kind of call it,
like Euphoria, you just get this feeling of like, you know, you
just like almost like eye-opening and, you know, you
start feeling that but then, you know, as you keep doing keto,
that becomes your new norm. And, you know, sometimes it
takes sitting back and thinking about being like, you know, six
Months ago, I didn't feel like this, you know, even though I
may not notice it as being as of robust now, it wasn't like this
before, it's just that. Now it's kind of more
continuous. And I think that like one of the
things I've noticed too is like when you first start keto I
think what happens is you get more like surges of like that
Euphoria where you know, I remember you know one time
specifically where I was driving in my car and I had like this
feeling that just like took over my body and I was like, whoa
what was that? And I was like and it was when I
had Just started. I was probably a month in and
like, after talking to people like, yeah, that's kind of like
that, euphoria that you get from Quito and, you know, I'll still
get that every once in a while. But now it's like, it's not a
surge. It's kind of like a constant
thing. Yeah.
And I think really what that's attributed to is, you know, your
brain has a high affinity for ketones.
So if you're producing them, you know, your get your brains,
going to be utilizing them, you know, primarily over every other
tissue in your body. So when that happens, I think
that that just kind of becomes the norm for your I think it's
different for everybody when they when it kicks in.
But last time we spoke, I had mentioned that my blood ketones
and become much, much lower. You know, being Ito ketosis as
long as I have, which is basically just a tribute to my
body being more efficient at utilizing them and not having
them floating in my bloodstream. Is there like a time frame that
you notice pretty consistently with that happening in people?
So it's tough because when you test ketones, like, I've noticed
this from you don't like during my grad school, I was doing a
lot of Research, where we would people were.
We're doing exercise and different food, interventions
and testing ketones. And the thing is, is like
testing your ketones in general. Really makes a big difference.
It makes a difference on when you're doing it like you may eat
like a totally keto friendly meal and see a drop in ketones
immediately after like I've seen that people.
So it's kind of hard to get a good interpretation of it.
But what I start seeing with people is usually in, like the
three to six month range. You start seeing that like those
Tone levels. If you're kind of choosing a
consistent time to test them, which we can talk about that
later too if you want. But if you're choosing a
consistent time to test them, usually in the 36-month range,
I'll see that people's numbers aren't as high as they used to
be, and they start going down and, you know, for some of like
the clients that I work with, a lot of times, they'll kind of
freaked out about that. And they'll be like, you know,
I'm not having any carbs like what's going on.
I'm sure you kind of see that to, with some of your clients.
And, you know, my biggest thing I always tell them is, you know,
how are you feeling like, do you feel Like you have good energy.
Do you feel full like you, are you having cravings?
And if they say, you know, note although singer, yes, to some of
those and notice some of those, then it's like, then what are
you worried about? You know, you're definitely in
Quito. It's just that.
Those numbers aren't the same anymore.
Yeah, people get so hung up on what that little device reads
off to him. So talk about like breath
ketones. Like I'm using that level device
right now to measure acetone in the breath, how is the
correlation with that? Like what would be, what am I
looking for? Exactly.
Yeah. So I've never actually used the
breath meter before but I know that there's at least two
published studies out there that show that the results you get
from the breath Ketone. M is is pretty much or they it
correlates well with what you get from the blood M.
The only thing that I've seen with it is that and now sounds
like you might be using a different one than what I'm
familiar with. But one of the first breath M
that came out. I was getting a lot of feedback
from people that interpreting the results was kind of a
struggle. But if Like and they maybe
they've improved that since then but if you're able to interpret
them they do say that the results are very comparable with
what you see on a blood Ketone meter.
So I think it kind of just comes to if you're kind of trying to
choose which one, I think you probably just look at Cost.
Effectiveness is probably what you should look for.
Okay, because I'm using, I'm using the level at another key
tonics was a was really big initially.
It was the one I know about. Yeah, yeah.
And the levels, pretty expensive but it's Unique in that it's
like it's like all a self-contained laboratory-based.
Khalil, I call Everything's contained.
There's no margin for error, really?
Really. So it's pretty.
It's pretty fancy. But I don't know if I've heard
that it's a, it's a better indicator of how many ketones
your body's actually using and burning as opposed to just was
floating around your bloodstream.
So I did ya out there was an idea of a product, right?
Right. So if I'm the break time in
theory, if I like test before training, and after training,
should my parts per million be higher or lower Well I mean
based on what might like my theory would be that after work.
Well it's tough to say because if I guess if you're doing
breath and it's measuring a byproduct of the breakdown then
you would assume that it would be higher because you would
assume that you're utilizing more and you know and a blood M
you would assume it would be the opposite that you're probably
going to well in a blood M it can be difficult because if
you're burning more fat than you, maybe also producing more
ketones at the same time and that's, you know something.
Yes, that's even same for breath, you know, regardless of
what you're measuring, if they're depending on your
exercise, if you're burning fat and producing ketones, it kind
of depends on your rate of burning versus Burning, the fat
in producing ketones and the burning of the ketones.
You know, it's kind of hard to interpret that it is, it is hard
to quantify. I'm such a data nerd.
I just like want to get all the numbers at the same time.
It's much better. Just to focus on how you feeling
it before me. Yeah.
You know, I always tell people to it's like, look at your
progress. Like, you know a lot like I've
had so many clients that Gets like really upset or hung up or
stressed out about those numbers.
And I was, like, to be honest with you, like, with what we
know about cortisol, like your stress is going to be hurting
your level of ketosis more than anything.
Yeah, exactly. Just listen to how you feel, and
see how you're progressing. And if you're getting good
progress and stuff, then you really shouldn't beat yourself
up about those numbers. I completely agree you ever use
like a glucose test. Yeah, so usually when I test I
do like to test both at the same time just because I'm always
curious to see Like what my fasting, blood glucose is, my
never gotten crazy low, like I still I still hover around like
the 80, you know, 70 to 80 range.
Like, I've seen some people with dip down into the 50s and 60s
and keto, but I usually do use it.
But one of the things that I've been really, you know, intrigued
with like, doing self experimentation and seeing how
your blood glucose response to meals, even like Tito friendly
meals, you know, there's a lot of people out there that think,
like, Like, you know, if you're eating some of these, like,
eco-friendly Suites that are out there that you can kind of,
because of your kind of mentally, you can almost like
force of blood glucose response because you think you're getting
something sweet. I haven't seen that in myself,
but it's kind of been something that I've been testing a lot to
see. So I still like to do blood
glucose at the same time and it's I mean, it's the cheapest
option. Like it's, you can get, you
know, glucose drip for pennies on the dollar.
So it's a effective way to see how things respond within.
Yeah. Thing to, like, a lot of people,
if they're saying, like, you know, wanting to know if they
should test ketones all the time and they're worried about the
price. Sometimes, I'll just tell him.
Like, let's look at your glucose because, you know, while there's
not a perfect correlation, you know, we know that if your
fasting blood glucose is 120 then you're probably not in
ketosis. So right?
You know, trying to, you know, find a cheaper way to monitor
how you're doing on the ketogenic diet.
You know, testing blood glucose is just as good.
Yeah, I completely agree. So, anything below what?
What's like, a just a good general rule anything.
But Low 100's pretty solid. Yeah I mean below 100 I would
say is in like them with the moderate range but what I've
seen usually like 8080 and below is what I've seen to be good for
fast now that's fasting. So waking up in the morning.
I think the best time to test glucose and ketones is, you
know, in the morning about two hours after you wake about a
10th after like a 10-hour fast, that's kind of what we used to
do. Anytime we would test ketones in
the lab, we would try to have that be the protocol.
But that's, you know, I would say for, like, a lot of that
usually in, like the 80 to 85 and under is what we look for.
But it that also depends on how long somebody's been keto for.
Like if you're new to Quito and you're super insulin resistant,
it might be harder for you to get that fasting.
Blood glucose number down, it may take a little bit longer,
but guys, like us who have been doing it for like 23 years, we
should probably be more. Like the 8080 below range, is
that kind of how you are, where you at.
That's generally where I met except for this month, I'm doing
that experiment where I've got a higher protein and I've noticed
the higher protein is definitely kicked up my fasting glucose.
How how much is it affected at? So like right now my macros are
235 protein, 222 fat, and like less than 20 grams total carbs a
day. And since starting this my
weights increased, my glucose was, you know, averaging around
80 and now it's you know, mid 90s, sometimes as high as 100
and my ketones of old dropped as well.
Okay. Now, do you when are you testing
them first thing in the morning? First thing tomorrow.
Okay? So one thing too that I always
tell people to at least be conscious of is, if when you're
waking up in the morning and testing, sometimes cortisol can
have a little bit of an impact, because cortisol, if you have
normal circadian rhythms, it should be spiking in the
morning, right? That can have an impact on your
blood sugar. But so usually, I always tell
people to wait a couple hours after, but if you were always
testing in the morning then I guess, you know, that's a
control, so that doesn't really matter.
But, you know, I wonder the, one of the things I've been
wondering with that because I've tested a little bit of high
protein in myself too. But I've never been in a calorie
Surplus, during I assume you're in a surplus now, right?
Yeah, I'm in about 3,000 calories a day but no.
Okay, so I've never done it in a surplus before.
So I've kind of wondered because you know the research out there
on higher protein, you know it's like gluconeogenesis and
everything one of the thing and this would actually be an
interesting thing for you too. You look at, if you could track,
it is seeing you know, some research has shown, that may be
acutely, having high protein could increase gluconeogenesis,
but long-term what they show is that it actually balances itself
out. It's so, you know what?
I would be curious to see is like, if your blood glucose is
higher in the morning on your high-protein.
I wonder what it is at night. Do you ever test at night,
sometimes randomly? But I've been just trying to
test consistently each day. That I mean, sure, I'll test it.
Not just just for the heck of it and, and my meals, like, this is
the first time in years that my, you know, caloric intake.
From protein has been higher than my protein ratio is
basically had in my fat ratio, which is crazy, my grams
anyways. So I think like I've experiment
higher protein in the past two and all I have like a really,
you know, you know, protein Dent steak and a lot of really high
Ketone readings afterwards, but the fat is also, you know,
proportionately just as high. Yeah.
So I think that is a huge factor in as well, because I mean, you
can have a, I think you can have a pretty high bowls of protein.
But as long as your fats there to slow the digestion, you're
going to have pretty ketogenic effect.
Whereas if you have a, you know, much higher protein ratio,
you're not going to have that fat to slow it, it's going to
skew the numbers. Yeah.
So that's what I was going to ask.
Now, do you on this type of you're doing currently?
Do you have more is your meals more like lower fat when you
have the high protein? Or is there still a decent
amount of fat, man? I try to make sure that we got a
decent amount of Because I don't want to have any meal is just
like, basically pure protein, but there's there's been times
where like I just did any more fat in the day and I would have
to have like a predominantly protein-based meal, but I
noticed when I do that, my numbers and next morning always
worse. So yeah, I think I think having
having them, you know, a fat in the diet ski dad, you do.
This is something I always like asking people to especially
people that train like yourself. Do you use protein shakes at
all? Now, I don't ever when I have
the lower. Protein ratio, I have been
lately. I've been using an ancient
nutrition bone broth protein. Just simply did I mean, because
there's days were like I need 20 grams of protein and no fat.
And that's like, just a quick easy way to go for it.
But I don't like using the protein powders from me, there
that that one's a good one. The bone broth one's a good one,
but there's still so much, like, sweetener in there.
And my pilot has changed so much since kiddo.
Like I don't like it, I don't like the sweetness.
Yeah, I've noticed that too. Like I'll you know, some days if
like, you know, if I train or something and And it's I know
it's going to be a long time before I eat and I kind of want
a snack. I might grab a quick protein
shake but yeah, same thing. Like now they taste so much
sweeter because, you know, compared to before, like I don't
have a sweet tooth really at also like even like mildly.
Sweet things are enough for me and anything overly sweet.
It's almost too much. Yeah, I've always recommended,
you know, client because everybody has protein shakes
that's been around forever, you know, so I've always recommend
that if you have protein shake friend have only half a scoop at
a time and then try and you know, even that Shoot out by
adding some MCT or there's some kind of fat source that it's not
just a pure bowls approaching. Yeah and one of the things to
during my grad school we did a little bit of research with it
and we actually were testing like different types of protein
and now we actually found the egg.
Protein was a little bit, was slightly more keto friendly than
that, then like whey and casein. So really?
Yeah. And I totally agree with with
putting things like whenever I would do protein shakes, I would
like to do like some heavy cream coconut oil MCT powder.
I'm like that. So the only problem is egg
protein, it's not the best tasting one, you know, it's just
not as good as way but, you know, for somebody, who if
they're looking to do protein and they want to, you know, make
sure they're staying keto friendly and also maybe trying
to avoid Dairy. I know that's a big, a big kind
of phase right now is people are trying to phase out dairy.
Egg protein might be a good thing to consider.
Yeah, I mean, I'm just eating a ton of, you know, eggs right
now, engine light about anywhere from like 10 to 20 eggs a day
right now is crazy. Yes.
Do you know I've been wondering like do you have you had any
problems because I'm the same way like I eat a lot of s.
Probably my primary foods. I eat is eggs, have you
developed any sort of like intolerance or anything to
having so many? No, not that.
I can tell, I mean like my go-to meal right now so I'll cook like
to burger patties or two sausages or something.
In the cast-iron skillet and I'll just crack you know ten
eggs in their time and scramble it and that's just like a lot of
volume and it works really well with the ratios.
I'm trying to hit right now so it's just easy.
But yeah, I haven't noticed any intolerance whatsoever.
Yeah, that's a question that I get a lot because, like, you
know, I'm the same way like I'll because, you know, eggs are
almost the easiest thing. If you're like, you said, trying
to balance out your ratios, you know, it's a good way that if
you have maybe a little bit of a leaner source of meat or
something, you can throw some eggs in there to get your fat up
and whatnot. But I, you know, so I've been
for the last two and a half years eating like at least you
know six to ten a day and people always ask me that question.
I haven't experienced it either by I've heard some people report
that so I was just curious if Experienced anything with it?
No, no, I haven't. What about?
What about Dairy. So you mentioned earlier people
trying to phase that Dairy what is like to get your take on it.
But from what I've experienced as far as like if you have an
intolerance to Dairy, it's going to be minimized on keto.
Like I think if you have dairy and carbs and fat those negative
impacts are Amplified by think going key to their minimize, but
obviously still some people would benefit from removing it.
Do you think everybody has a dairy intolerance in some form
or fashion or And some people totally get away with it.
That's a great question. You know, the thing is, is, like
the biggest thing with dairy and like lactose, specifically, is
like, if you go overboard on Dairy, you're going to be
getting lactose in there. You're going to be getting
sugar. So, if you're going to use it, I
think moderation is key. You know, a lot of people
report, you know, experiencing experiencing like inflammation
and stuff, while using a lot of dairy.
But one of the biggest things about a ketogenic diet, is it
reduces inflammation. So, just like you said, I think
Darion. A huge egg dye is going to be a
lot better than Dairy on a high carb diet where you're probably
already experiencing inflammation.
Regardless of the dairy, what I always tell people, especially
if you're new to Quito, don't cut out Dairy because that's
just going to restrict yourself more, and probably just going to
look lead to you failing more or, you know, lead to a better
chance of you falling off the diet.
But if you, you know, start to see a plateau or you start to,
you know, hit that spot where like, you know, I'm not seeing
any more progress, it might be worth it to look into.
The dairy and taking it away. But like, for me personally,
I've been doing keto for two years and I haven't felt the
need. You know, I've never ate a ton
of dairy but I've never felt the need to completely remove it
from my diet. You know, I've heard a lot of
people like, I know, like Leanne Vogel is really big.
I'm keeping Dairy out and she says, you know, she feels so
much better when she doesn't do it.
I think it's just kind of one of those things where it's really
specific to the person. And that's, you know, the
biggest thing like I always talk sustainability if, you know,
having dairy in your Jake died is going to make you you know,
1% less healthy but it's going to give you an 80% better chance
of staying on the diet. I would rather you have dairy
and stay on the diet but if you're trying to optimize the
diet then you know, maybe it's worth taking a look at cutting
it out. Yeah.
And I don't know, I'm incredibly insensitive like I perform fine
with carbs when the 8 mm. So I think the the sugars that
I'm getting from the lactose like my body is able to settle
those through pretty effectively and that's probably why I'm not
getting near the negative feedback from it.
Yeah. And that's That's a good point
too. Is why self-experimentation?
Knowing your body so important like I'm the same way so I
played basketball in college and everything.
So I've, you know, always had a pretty good metabolism.
I've always been really active and everything.
So you know, I've I can handle, you know, carbohydrates pretty
well too. So for me, a serving of cheese
or two servings of cheese, the minimal amount of carbs, it's
in. There is probably not going to
affect me. And I've kind of tested this
myself, like I can get my carbs up.
A decent decent level and still stay in ketosis.
But somebody else who You know, they're coming to the ketogenic
diet and there may be obese or their experience.
They know they have diabetes or they're very insulin resistant
there, they might not be able to handle those things.
And for people like that, it might be better to cut out
Dairy. But like, you know, usually on
keto, the big conversation with Darius cheese.
There's actually a lot of pretty good alternatives to it.
Like actually have almond cheese now which is pretty decent so
you can actually cut those things out and not really you
know, miss out on too much in of the Cheese's because I love
cheese man. Sometime, I mean cheese is great
because it's like if you get a super hard like parmesan cheese,
you know, it's part of the heart of the cheese.
The less lactose, right? Yeah.
So the harder and the I've also heard the longer that it's aged
too. So if it's been aged longer,
there's less lactose in it and I mean, you can get like, a really
aged hard, you know, parmesan or something like that, and you
don't even need to really keep it.
Refrigerated you guys like, take that with you.
So it's like a really good go to, you know, traveling food
option. And I don't know, like, I just
Cheese but yeah, I think I think the butter also didn't have very
much like toes so you know, hard cheeses and butters people can
get away with that with. I think much minimal effect that
I've also been trying to steer clear if the shredded cheese
because they often times put that anti-caking agent on there
which is going to you know, potentially spike, your insulin
levels. Yeah.
And that's a big thing too. Is like, you're looking at it,
you really have to look at the ngrick because people always ask
like what source of cheese is the best and it really depends
on where you're getting it from. Like, you know, there's a lot of
cheese has a Of people that put fillers in their cheese.
A lot of people that, you know, if you're getting like low-fat
cheese, usually anything this low-fat means that they probably
incorporate carbohydrates into it.
So, that's why it's important to always look at, you know, the
label on stuff and see what you're getting.
And like, you said, you know, the harder Cheese's in the dirt
and the longer they've been aged for.
Those are going to be your best options on keto.
Very cool. What what other kind of know
what are some of your go-to meal options?
I guess because there's a lot of people in the first, what the
damage is. They just feel really limited,
but it's far from the truth. I mean, you can make a recipe
for anything. But I mean, what are some of the
lesser-known food items that you go to?
Yeah. So I actually so, you know, kind
of my normal protocol, is I fast about 16 hours a day.
I do that strictly for the cognitive benefit of it.
I get the majority of my work done in the morning.
So I like fasting during that time, but my, you know, my go-to
normal meals is, I really like eggs and bacon.
Obviously, I have not gotten Sick of that.
And I really like top salads, like Cobb salad is my go-to
because that's like the most keto friendly salad.
There is it's got, you know, egg bacon, you know, there's chicken
in it. Blue cheese, you know, dressing
all that. But you know some of the Lesser
known ones that a lot of people don't usually talk about any.
Well it used to be popular a few years ago, when dr.
D'Agostino brought up the like sardines or like one of my
favorite foods, I really thought like it's, you know, a lot of
people are kind of turned off to him but I really like sardines.
There's a Health benefits to them.
And you know, most times they're packed with what they're packed
in. There's a lot of sodium with
them. So being somebody, that is
pretty active and plays, you know, basketball few times a
week like getting that extra sodium's, pretty good.
So, you know, I really like sardines and then, you know,
cooking wise stubb that my big thing right now.
And here we just talked about cheese.
So I kind of brings it up a Fathead do.
And we've talked about this in the past, like a bad head.
These, those are like my go-to right now.
Yeah, those are hard to beat, for sure.
Yeah. Very I'll be speaking on
sardines, man. I'd I get those Wild Planet
sardines. Yeah.
And I just totally on a whim, I added almond butter to the
sardines, I got open up the candidate.
Almond butter to it, and that light really made the ratio is
perfect. As by themselves, they have a
higher protein ratio. Yeah, but like, 2 tablespoons,
almond butter. You would think that be really
weird, but like, the salt, the almond butter, like combines
with olive oil and it just makes it delicious.
I'm going to have to try that right away because one of the
big things that I do and I'll post it on my personal.
Account sometimes and I'll like, I'll put it on my store and
people always like, ask me what the heck I'm doing, but I put
almond butter on eggs. That's a big thing that I do
too. And I, so it's the kind of that
sweet salty combination going on.
I'm gonna definitely have to try that first sardines, that sounds
really good. Yeah, and like those the f bomb
package he ever eat those. Yeah.
The macadamia nut butter. Yeah.
Like, I'll have a can of sardines.
I'll have one of those in my bag and I mean, they're both
portable. So you can just take that and
you have a perfect keto ratio, right?
They're on the go hard to be. Yeah, I felt bombs really good.
I had some of their stuff. When I was out at sake,
gioconda, slasher, that was kind of first time I got to try them.
There's, there's such great, but the, and that's kind of the big
thing with, like, what kito's doing right now.
Like, there's so many of these awesome on-the-go options for
people. Like there's really no excuse
anymore for, you know, failing on keto when you travel and
stuff because there's so many options like that available.
Yeah I totally agree. So let's talk about Isaac's
gonna ask you something else about food what was it I don't
remember, I don't remember. Anyways, we'll come back to that
but I really like to dive into supplements because I want to
get behind the science of it but I want to preface this
conversation with. I think you and I are both in
agreement that nutrition is far and above supplementation.
People often times get that backwards but I think we can
both agree on that. Yeah I know that's that's the
biggest thing with in any diet but especially in Quito every a
Men should be what exactly what it is.
It should be a supplement to your diet and it should be.
You know, there's certain supplements that can help you
know, get you to the point where you have a well-formulated
ketogenic diet but if you don't have the nutrition down path and
you know any supplement that you're looking at, it's not
going to matter. Yeah, exactly.
I don't like branched chain. Amino acids are super hot right
now. There's been a lot of research
coming out that they are effective.
There's some research come out, they're not effective.
Like well, what is your what is your take on branched chains?
Yeah, so well. Guessing, you know, the to take
sorry, you know, the question of are they effective, aren't they?
And then you know for keto, what's the deal with the
research seems to be, you know, I've I know recently, there's
been more coming out about them, maybe saying that they're not as
beneficial, but I know that you know, when I was going through
grad school and stuff, there was a ton of research out there
showing how taking making sure that you have enough leucine,
hit the threshold to stimulate muscle protein synthesis is
beneficial. And, you know, a lot of people
claim that, you know, having being branched-chain amino acids
before your workout can, you know, help give you a lot of
energy. So I think that, you know, I do
think that they're an effective supplement for people to take
the question becomes what about on keto?
Because, you know, leucine is, it's a ketogenic and a
gluconeogenic amino acid. So that means it can be
converted to ketones or glucose. So a lot of people wonder like,
you know, will I get kicked out of Quito taking BCAAs?
One of the, the biggest things I always tell people, is that
there's actually been some research out.
I knew that if you take leucine before workout, the workout can
actually belonged the insulin response that could maybe come
from from taking Lucy nor BCAAs. So I always tell people if
you're going to do BCAAs on a kid Jack that you probably want
to keep them either pre workout or intra workout when you use
them. What about, what would you
recommend having like a branch chain or just getting like a
pure grade leucine? I would say Branch chain.
Now, I'm kind of drawing a blank on it because I've been out of
it for a little while, but I know there was some research at
one point talking about how like the I thought it was about how
the other the other amino acids can help with like the uptake of
the leucine or something like that.
But there's also a lot of benefits to the other one.
So, you know, I think that, you know, having both the end of
BCAA are all having all three in the BCA mix is probably most
beneficial but I wouldn't consider myself to be like the
expert on that and I know a lot of the the pre workouts have
like beta alanine there but that's much more glucose glucose
genic than the ketogenic. So I try and steer clear of a
leaning like as a standalone supplement.
Yeah. And you know the other thing too
is like with beta alanine is a lot of like you know this is
kind of another conversation but a lot of products they actually
they they sometimes they'll fairy dust the the beta-alanine
they'll go like a ton of niacin and it just to like make you get
that feeling. I'm actually just not a big fan
of Fatality myself. I my body doesn't respond well
to it, but I've actually never tested my ketones afterwards to
see if there's any impact, I have you tested it all.
When taking it, I haven't taken the large enough dose Standalone
to be able to really get an accurate control and Baseline.
That would be interesting to do that.
I should do that. Yeah, I'd be curious about that
because I know like, you know, there's a lot of research out
there about showing how even acutely.
It can really increase your strength and, you know, I've in
the past whenever I've taken I've experienced that but But
I'm not a big fan of the way that I feel on it.
I don't really like the the tingling feel the face and
everything that you get from taking it.
But yeah I'd be curious to see like what the glucose response
is on that because you know you're still taking it in a you
know if you consider you know I think the dose for it is maybe
is it three grams mayor, gram and a half?
Something like that. Yeah, three grams 3 grams of six
grams. It kind of varies depending on
what supplement me, you didn't. Yeah.
So I would be curious to know if three grams of it, you know?
Would be enough to kick you out. I think that'd be a good thing
to test. Yeah, I agree that.
Put that on my to-do list. Yeah.
What about what about like vitamin D3?
There's been a lot of. I think Rhonda.
Patrick came out with a study that indicated, you need a lot
more than his generally recommended.
Yeah, and that's, especially true.
I think vitamin D vitamin D3 something that I've taken for
the last probably four years, and that's especially true for
people who live and, like, I live in Florida now.
So I get a little more access to son, then a lot of people but,
you know, if you're, you know, living up in like I'm Originally
from the Midwest and you know, you are you go up there and you
talk about, you know, being dark and gloomy for four to six
months out of the year. You know, that can lead to a lot
of like seasonal depression disorders and have like, you
know, there's even a lot of stuff with like, you know,
having low vitamin D and testosterone and stuff like
that. So, I'm a big fan of vitamin D.
It's, it's kind of one of those ones.
Like it's funny when you look up, you know, vitamin, are you
look up supplements to take an occasional diet, vitamin D,
always pops up and people always kind of wonder why And it's just
because if you're trying to optimize your diet your health
regardless of what diet you're on, you should be taking vitamin
D. What is it?
Good like right now I think I'm taking 12 to 5000 IU pills a
day. What is a good number to shoot
for? That's a good question you.
I don't know if I know the actual efficacious dose for
vitamin D. I know that most like, the
supplement that I take it comes in.
It's a 5000 IU pill but I don't like I don't worry.
Not too much because I'm getting, you know, a decent
amount of sun down here in Florida.
So I've never had to worry about you know, making sure that I'm
getting enough. I would have to check that out.
I'm not sure what the efficacious dose is for that.
Yeah, it's interesting that I don't know myself impatient has
been cut down, but I've got now. I'm trying to just get like a
good vitamin D. I've been pretty lacks with my
brain changes. Probably picked it up a little
bit more and then I don't think I've been pretty like some like
creatine monohydrate to as probably be more consistent with
that. But I mean honestly Like my
supplementation is pretty minimal with keto.
Have you have you dove into adaptogens at all?
No. Yeah.
So like I'm sure you've heard of have you heard of like
ashwagandha and stuff like that? Yeah, I've heard of it.
I've kind of, like, I've tried set that has some of it in
there, but I've never taken like ashwagandha as a standalone.
Yeah. So that's the two.
The two biggest like, or I would say because, you know, before at
my supplementation was always centered around, you know, like,
like, I still take creatine, I don't really usually We do
BCAAs, but it was always like, you know, pre workouts and all
that kind of stuff. Now I take a lot of stuff that,
you know, it all. So not only does it improve like
sports performance, but also has a lot of benefits to health and
like, ashwagandha is actually one of my favorite supplements
that I take. So it's like it's an adaptogen
that adaptogens basically. Like if you look at their
benefits it's a really long list because they can, you know what
an adaptogen does is it comes in and like it sounds it adapts to
your body. So it kind of Things where you
need to wear something, is off and work, and like provide
benefit and it does that. So, it's actually, like, it's
been studied extensively for, like, people that are dealing
with, like, Stress and Anxiety, but there's also a lot of stuff
on improving sleep. It's about large loss stuff on
it, increasing my testosterone levels and improving athletic
performance. So that's a big one that I take
and then another adaptogen I take is Rodeo over Isaiah.
So those are the two big ones that I take those every single
day. I've taken rhodiola before, and
I like that a lot. Like it's a because I tried to
face off of caffeine for a while, and I would try and get
something like that, that that stimulates, you know, my my
mental Clarity and energy without having the caffeine load
and Rodeo like I can tell pretty effective.
It was pretty effective. What because I mean some of
those like are much higher quality than others, what would
be a good recommendation for like an ashwagandha rhodiola
supplement? So though the two, the two been
like the best one of the best ashwagandha is, I think are the
sensor real ashwagandha and then KSM 66.
So KSM. 66 is the only one that I've taken, but it's if you see
anything and it has case I'm 66, it means that it has the right
percentage of the extracts from the ashwagandha plant because
ashwagandha is a plant. So it has the right percentage
of that off the top of my head. I don't know what those
percentages are, but if you see KSM 66, that means that it has
those percentages. So that's the And a lot of times
you won't see that, like sometimes they'll just have the
straight plant extract. And if you do, if you just take
that, you're not going to be getting enough of the beneficial
parts of the of ashwagandha. So I've also heard a lot of good
people, talk about like one of my good friends.
Sean Wells talks a lot about like sensor, real ashwagandha as
well. I've never taken it, but I can
definitely attest to the KSM 66 as being pretty awesome.
Check that out for sure. I really like like the the
cognitive enhancement, you know, neuro.
Like a I use mushrooms are really hot right now.
There's a lot of benefits cloud from mushroom.
So I'll try like the cordyceps, the, you know, lion's mane, the
chaga, like those the for Sigma attic.
Coffee of you. Tried that before.
Yeah. So I tried forcing Matt coffee.
Like probably it was it was actually about a year ago
because I was trying to wean off my caffeine too and I think if
I'm not mistaken there's only like 40 milligrams or something
like that. Something in there.
Yeah. So I was you know, when I was
going through grad school, I was I was taking a lot of caffeine
to get through the day. Day and everything.
And when I switch to that and I was like in totally impressed
with how I felt on it and that really got me into it.
And so I've taken the cordyceps chaga and then the lion's mane
which I think lion's mane is the one that's becoming most popular
now because it's kind of fallen into that, like nootropic Realm.
A lot of people are talking about it.
I've never taken it as a standalone though, I've only
taken those. I actually I take that back.
So I've taken those in the forcing Mac but also have you
heard Of, I'm drawing a blank on the company.
Now, there's a, there's a company that have you seen the
company that does the emulsified MCT oil on it?
No, it's not on the on. It has it too.
I'm gonna have to look it up now because I want everybody to know
about is pretty good. It's but basically what they
have a supplement that I came across last year or not last
year but last month it actually has ashwagandha.
And I think it's Cordyceps, Mushroom in it.
And I think it's, it's also got. It might even have a rhodiola in
it, but it's like a really good supplement to take like
pre-workout. So I actually just started
taking that and I love the, the benefits I've seen from that 12.
So cordyceps has its natural force.
That's the company natural force.
Okay? Yeah.
So, they have a couple different products, but, yeah, one of
them, they combine ashwagandha with cordyceps, mushroom.
And like, that's not only like a boost for your, for, you know,
Clarity and everything but also provides a great athletic boost
as well. And describe, like compare the
feeling you get with that versus like what you would get from,
you know, 200 mg of caffeine pill or like a pre-workout.
I think it's a little bit more even Keel and, and not as like
robust. So, you know if you if you take
200 mg of caffeine, you're going to kind of get a spike where you
might, you know, feel great for a short period of time, and then
you're probably going to have a come down.
I've never experienced. That one taking any of these
things, it's more sustainable and it's, you know, it's not
like, you know, there's not going to be as much Jitters and
stuff because it's not as stimulatory as like caffeine is.
So those are I like taking those instead of caffeine?
But actually another you know, while we're on that topic.
Another great replacement to caffeine is have you ever heard
of tea crime? I've heard of it.
I'm not used it. I've been I've been meaning to
try it. Is there a recommendation video?
Yeah, so I know that there's a there's a few Out there and
there's there's a couple patented ones, I think T crack
has Thea crying. I think it's pronounced via
crying is the cell phone book. T crime is the one.
It's the patented version of one of the formulations and there's
a lot of really good research out there.
Showing that it actually provides similar cognitive and
performance benefits as caffeine.
But without like the increases in like heart rate, without like
the, you know, increase in like blood pressure and all that
stuff, and you actually There's been a lot of research showing
that you don't become like desensitized to it like you do
caffeine so you don't develop this tolerance to it.
Yeah. That's a, if you're trying to
wean off of caffeine, I would say that like, three of your
house. A, my three things, if you're
trying to wean off, caffeine would probably be like, T
crying, rhodiola rosea, and then, like any of those, like
lines mean, any of those mushrooms you're talking about?
It's crazy. Like, I really like hell.
All these companies are kind of moving towards a more holistic,
you know, Natural Healthy sustainable.
You know supplement list you go back and you look like at the
supplements in the late 90s and early 2000.
You'll read the label, just like man this is death in a bottle.
Yeah I mean they're able to get it it's regulated a little more.
Now the only problem that I still see with a lot of submit
companies is you know and it you know from a business standpoint
like it obviously makes sense but a lot of times what people
do is they just they take those keywords that people know.
I ashwagandha that's really popular right now or, you know,
like citrulline or any of these like these Supplements
ingredients that are popular, and they'll put them in there.
So, to the average person that flips around, they look at the
label, wo this, this, this and is in there, but a lot of times,
they don't put the efficacious dose in and it's because, you
know, it's expensive to do things at high.
Like a lot of these more natural ingredients.
Like, you know, if you're doing like Alpha GPC or any of that
stuff like those are more expensive than, you know,
creatine which is like, you know, pennies to put in
something. So a lot of so, you know, I
always tell people like if you're looking to get If you're
looking at like, you know, product look at what you're
trying to get out of it, see what the ingredients are and
make sure that there's enough in it before you get it.
Because if you know if not, you're just going to be buying
something based on the keywords that they throw on the label
exactly. But a couple are getting better
now though. You're right.
And there's not a third party testing companies which you
know, makes it much much more regulated.
So let's talk about what you keep on line of supplements
because it's this is good. What about MCT powders?
MCT oil owls and you know, you got your, you break it down, you
got your C6 e, AC 10, C12 lauric acid there at the bottom, how do
you use and Implement that? Yeah, so the biggest thing is I
use both so I use MCT. I've actually been using more
MCT powder lately than oil, which we can kind of touch on in
a second what to look for with that.
But I just like it because now they've actually have some like
some fleet like the ballistic MCT powder that it's like Burn
everything. So they have some and like Quest
has some and you know there's better tasting ones and they can
help make your shakes better and everything but I use MCT and
coconut oil separately because there's benefits to each one.
Coconut oil has a higher percentage of the lauric acid,
like you were talking, Which lauric acid is isn't technically
an MC. T it actually kind of Falls in
that middle ground of an MC t and a long chain triglyceride.
But what what lauric acid does is it provides a lot of
benefits. F it for like, antimicrobial,
antibacterial antiviral. And there's also system, right?
What's that didn't help? Also, like, boost your immune
system and whatnot? Yeah, yeah, actually, I
definately and there's actually some stuff showing that it can
provide a lot of brain benefit, like, dr.
Mary Newport, she has. She's doing a lot of research
showing that it can improve what people who are suffering from
like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and stuff like that.
So, I'll take that for different reasons.
But I'll also supplement with like MCT oil.
MCT oil powder, which you know, like you said, is more of your
C8, your C10. They even have C6 is out there
now. But, you know, that's going to
have a little bit higher concentration of actual MCTS.
So, you know, that can help give you a little bit more of like a
boost and like, your Ketone production.
So and then, you know, even based off of that, they actually
have like, you know, CH specifically which like, for
people who don't know, like ca is going to be more ketogenic
than C10. Because it can be more rapidly
converted to ketones. At least that's what suggested,
there's not a ton of research out on it, but there is a little
bit. So yeah, that's so there's, you
know, there's reasons to taking both.
I like to incorporate it more. My like, I have like, a little
bit of a shake that I like to make, where I'll take.
Like, I'll do like bone broth protein or I'm sorry.
Collagen protein with like chia seeds, MCT oil powder, and then
I'll put like a little bit of coffee in it.
That's because that's one of my shakes I make.
But that's And the best way that I like to use it.
And then like coconut oil, I really like to put on like, my
vegetables. Just to help, like, Flavor those
up a little bit. But one of the big things with
MCT oil powder, if you're looking at it is when you, when
you play a powder, it's just like a like a when you play MCT
oil, it's just like, when you do protein, you have to Plate it on
something to have it turn into a powder.
Some people actually will use like maltodextrine for their MCT
oil powder, which it's going to be in Trace Amounts in there but
it's not the most keto friendly. So you want to look at like
companies like I know Quest they played it on, I think soluble
corn fiber which is a lot more Kyo friendly than maltodextrine.
It's actually very cute. So friendly.
So if you're using like an MCT oil powder, you want to make
sure that you're checking the label to see what like in that
small print at the bottom, what other ingredients are included
in. It definitely definitely
specially. There's a bunch coming out and
like Quest was one of the first that's what I use initially.
I don't know what perfect keto Place their zombie.
I don't even think they have any carbs in that one.
Whereas you get some with the soluble corn fiber.
Yeah, that's right. I don't think they have you.
I've tried I've tried their MCT oil powder.
I thought was really good. I've tried a couple of their
stuff actually and I think it's great but I'm not sure exactly
what they use in their request is kind of been my go-to.
I really like that one and then you know the ballistic Ketone.
I've been using that a little bit too.
I think that's a pretty good one.
So those are kind of Been the go-to for me, I like the
patterns a lot. I used to use the oils but after
I did 4 tablespoons at once, I don't use the oil seem like
yeah, I've had some accidents with it too.
You know, I've had always tell someone like one time, there's
one morning. I was heading out to go play
basketball and I didn't have a spoon.
So I just took a swig out the bottle and you know, soon as I
did it I realized I took too much and I paid for it later.
Yeah. But one of the interesting thing
that we touched a little bit earlier one the interesting
things that's coming out the MCT oil now is actually They have a
most defied MCT oil which blends better with like coffee and in
Hot Products. So like the natural force.
Like I was talking, I saw them at paleo FX and I got to try
some of their stuff and they actually have a flavored MCT oil
that emulsifies in. So I think the one I tried was
French vanilla so you can actually put like french vanilla
MCT in your coffee and rather than it like sitting on top.
Like most times when you put MCT on your coffee it actually
Blends in well with it. Like that's pretty good.
Yeah it's pretty. I like I liked it a lot and I
mean shoot if it tastes good that's a lot better just to
blend oil flavor for sure. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. Well, what about we're going to
have to segue into? I won't talk about college in a
little bit, so, do you. You said you use collagen
peptides, do you like that? I mean, what are you using it
for mostly joints pop? Yeah, so I like it because, for
one, I mean, to be honest, one of my biggest reasons for using
it is, I like to have a shake. In the middle of the day, just
as kind of like a keep myself feeling full in between meals
and stuff like that. And I've just really like the
way that I feel when I take the collagen, but there's a ton of
benefits to college in with, like an improving, you know,
your skin, Health hair, all of that stuff that I really like.
But, you know, previously at least in my experience is
collagen protein. I've never.
Tasted very good. But now there's, there's some
pretty good tasting ones out there, so it's kind of more for
me. It's something that I you, I
know that there's a lot of help. Benefits to it.
But I like to use it because, you know, it's going to be a lot
more keto friendly than some of the other protein powders.
Yeah, for sure, Crystal has been making them like she'd been
making these fat bombs and she'll put the collagen in the
fat bomb, along with her, like, Branch chain, amino acid,
powders, and everything. So it's all in the fat bomb and
so, it's wow, pretty easy and convenient.
Yeah, I was, you know, I've actually never cooked with it,
how does it? How does it mixer?
How does it cook compared to like way?
Because I know, like ways easier to cook with them, like, I think
ways easier to cook with them, like casein is Elgin pretty easy
to do stuff with. Yeah, I don't know because I
mean with some stuff like way you reach a certain temperature
and it destroys the the way you know molecule.
So you're not really going to get the benefit.
I don't know what the temperature is with collagen,
but with like the fat bombs, it's all just Frozen.
So I would assume that would help you know, that refined.
So yeah she like mix that with like some cream cheese or some
almond butter, put some of the branched-chain amino acid
powders in there. And then you know it tastes like
a packet of Stevie or truvy or something.
It tastes fine, that's all. Mmm, delicious.
Oh, is that the sweetener you guys?
Usually use that you use like Stevia.
Yeah, we'll get like a little trivia packets and I don't
really use them that much, but she will also show add, you
know, two packets to a coffee or whatever.
But it's just a blend of stevia and erythritol, which I haven't
had any negative impact from some people.
I've got a pretty good tolerance so I can handle sucralose really
well. Like, I've never had any
negative effects from sucralose. I don't do the ace K or anything
like that, but Splenda erythritol monk fruit.
Steve you have all been fun with yeah, yeah I agree.
What about let's talk let's go deep down the rabbit hole of
exogenous ketones because that's super hot right now and yeah and
honestly I don't know where I stand on that because like I
didn't mind my prep. I got down to three and a half
percent body fat never once touched it.
So I know you can get lean without using them and you know,
one of the arguments now is that if you're supplementing with
things Legends ketones in the primary goal is to get leaner,
it might minimize your bodies. Zone ability to, you know,
produce ketones and burn, fat oxidation.
So I don't know if, if that's the case or what your take is on
then. Yeah.
So you know, anytime you like her right now, it's kind of,
it's a little bit tough to talk about in the keto Community
because like, if for a lot of people like there's this divide
of like this whole key do you have to do, you know, Whole
Foods. Don't use any of these types of
products and there's a people that are the other end of the
extreme and use these products and don't follow a great kid
drank diet. When you fall in the middle,
what happens is both sides end up wanting to crucify.
You, but really, that's where I fall is kind of in the middle on
it, there's benefits to taking Exotics ketones and there's a,
you know, there's a lot of therapeutic benefits and a lot
of research on the benefits of Exotics ketones.
But when you talk specifically about weight loss, everybody
likes to look at it as being black and white.
So and why that becomes difficult because my personal
take on it is, Know, if you're going into a training session
and you take exoticness ketones before your training session.
Yes, you might not have to burn as much fat during that training
session because you are providing yourself with exotic
substrate, you know. It would be no different than if
you were to eat a big bowl. So fat before you train, if
that's readily available, you might not have to burn as much
fat in that training session, but if Exotics ketones are
increasing your energy and they increase your ability to, you
know, get at work out more. Tensley then they may help you
burn more fat. And even outside of that,
there's a ton of research with like exhaustion is ketones.
Being able to increase like mitochondrial biogenesis which
is basically just like the creation of mitochondria and
your and your the, you know, it's creating more mitochondria
in your body and when you can do that, that increases your
capacity to burn fat. So a lot of people want to look
like, you know, even if you were to end, it hasn't been looked
at, but even if you were to measure fat, Burning and take
exaggerated ketones and see that acutely in the three hours, you
take them. You don't burn as much fat.
That doesn't mean that you're not making physiological
adaptations. That allow for better fat
burning long-term. So my biggest thing with them is
that I think that they're not necessary.
They're not a requirement if you're doing keto but they can
be just like everything else we were talking about.
They can be a great supplement to a kid Jank diet, depending on
what your goal is, if you're trying to exercise more So, they
can probably help with that, you know, if you're looking for a
way to increase, like your mental acuity or, you know,
mental focus and all that stuff, they'll probably provide a lot
of benefit with that. But if you're looking to use
them as like a replacement to a following a ketogenic diet
nutritionally, then then, you know, you're definitely not
taking the right approach with them.
Yeah, I think I think the mistake people make is they put
too much emphasis on it and you know, I mean, the whole theory
of you can eat whatever you want, drink a drink and then be
in ketosis. Osis and 60 Minutes like that,
that kind of gripes me every time I hear, you know.
Yeah. And you know and the reason why
is because like it's just like what we talked about the
beginning of the show. It's like that they're not wrong
in saying that it gets you into ketosis but it's a difference
between being in ketosis and being fat adapted and take the
like 100%. I've tested it myself.
You can take these products and have an increase in Ketone
levels in your blood but that does not mean that you are in
ketosis if you're not following the diet.
But, you know, one of the interesting things that these
things Can be used for, and I'm not a huge user of them like I
use them. You know, every once in a while,
I've never been a regular user of them.
But, you know, one of the things I do think could be really
beneficial is. When you first start keto, they
may be a great addition to help get you over the hump.
If you're somebody who's insulin resistant or having a hard time
producing ketones taking them, maybe something that for one it
provides you with some ketones that might make you you know,
lower like Brain fog and reduce like keto, flu symptoms, but to
there's a lot of research out there showing that having
increased blood Ketone levels will help like upregulate the
Transporters that are responsible for bringing ketones
into the cell. So if you can, you know, if you
first start keto, if you can get your Ketone levels Higher by
taking usages ketones, you may be able to adapt quicker.
And, you know, that's been something that if I like I never
push them on anybody that I work with.
But if somebody is interested in Kick them.
That's how I'll always kind of like in a vowel.
That's how I'll kind of like segue into it and tell them how
they should be taking them is because you know, using them as
like kind of an adjunct to get you through that adaptation
period. But you know like you said it's
they're not a necessity though. I think they're indirectly good
again to Q2 flu simply because they're all bound to minerals.
You know you get your sodium potassium calcium, which most
people don't take in enough of of when they're getting adapted.
So by default you're going to be getting more sodium potassium
and you're going to that's going to minimize the effects of chi
to flow as well. Yeah.
And that's exactly right and that's why I like sometimes when
people they do take it and they, you know, talk about how great
they felt like during the adaptation period that could be
from the electrolytes because like sodium electric
deficiencies in particular. Sodium deficiencies.
In my opinion, from what I've seen are one of the biggest
reasons for like Tito flu because there's so many likes.
In terms of having like, sodium deficiency is, which is very,
very, it's almost a guarantee that it's going to happen when
you start keto and so that's yeah.
I like you said, that's another great way to get those those in
without having to just like pour a lot of salt on your food and
stuff. It's kind of a good addition to
the ketones. Now what kind of sodium
potassium calcium or these these exogenous ketones Bounty?
Because I mean like all sodium's aren't created equal, right?
You get your iodized table salt, you got your pink Himalayan
salt. Like is there a difference in
quality between the minerals that these He's exhausted
ketones are bound to or they all same across the board.
That's a great question. I don't know that I know the
exact answer to that, but I know that when you look at these
products when they list on the back there just listing sodium
as just na as sodium. Yeah, I you know, that's a good
question. I don't know what they're
actually using if they're using any of the patented ones.
Like I know there's like there's go BHP and I think there's some
other like patented versions of the ketones.
Any of those I'm sure you could actually look up and see
exactly. They're using.
But if they're just using like beta-hydroxybutyrate bound to
sodium, calcium, potassium. I don't know that you could even
tell what type that they're using.
Yeah. Since it's not, that's a good
point. That's actually something.
I'm probably gonna start researching now because I'm
really curious about that. I didn't think about that.
Yeah. Because I mean, I don't even
know if this is possible, but if you had like a negligence Ketone
Mountain like pink Himalayan salt.
That'd be the way to go. Actually, you know, that's in
her. I know a couple people that are,
you know, pretty well rehearsed and the and The biochemistry
realm. I'm not quite as well rehearsing
that, but I actually something I want to ask is that would be.
That's a really interesting thing that you bring up.
Well, if you find anything out, and that's going to be our
business Endeavor. Right there, we're going to make
a nice. I just keep telling men to Pink.
So, I have to remove this portion of the segment, so,
somebody doesn't steal our idea. Yeah, you heard it here first
people. So what about the difference
between, you know, exoticness ketones in the form of the
ketones? Salts versus the Esters, which
are not really in full production mode now, but they're
making. Pretty good waves and getting
out there. Yeah, so for a while, one of the
biggest things was that like the Esters were not palatable at
all. I had tried the Esters
previously and they were horrible.
I mean, like you I think, was it, I forget who the person that
it was on, like, Tim Ferriss podcast.
Talk about how they taste, like, jet fuel, Peter TM was Peter.
It's yeah. So Peter teeth like a hundred
percent. That's what they taste like.
Like it's one of the worst. Seeing things that you can ever
have but I have had some more palatable versions but the other
problem with the Esters is they've always been so expensive
like a shot of them is that before Ike?
I mean the numbers for how much it cost for to make them and
then like what you'd have to sell them for was just
astronomical what I've seen now is that, you know, there is some
stuff showing that like the salts can increase levels of
ketones. Similarly to the Esters.
There's a lot of And fourth right now.
Between some of the top keto doctors out there or the keto
researchers out there talking about how, you know, one might
be more closely mimicking what is produced naturally in the
body and the other one isn't. So maybe the one is safer than
the other. It seemed like done.
Racemic, a land deal. Yep, that's exactly, right.
Yeah. I didn't know how deep we want
to go down the rabbit hole on that.
But yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, the thing is, they
actually they've now been able to formulate the salt too.
To be more closely mimicking, the mimicking, the Esther.
So it's really hard to say there's kind of a big divide but
ultimately, the thing is, as the Esters are still pretty
expensive to take. I'm pretty certain sure.
The last Esther I tried, I was still told that it was like
somewhere like a fifty to a hundred dollar shot.
So how like if I was in the lab and you were making this Ester,
like, what happens like what? What goes into play here to make
an ester? That's a good question.
I don't know the esterification process.
Well, that would be another question.
I'd have to ask like, one of my biochemistry buddies, but yeah,
it's something that I researched at one point, but I don't know
if I wouldn't consider myself to be an expert on being able to
explain that. But it's, it's different than
like, when you when you talk about like the salts like those
are their binding, the the BHP molecule to a carrier molecule
like the sodium, the calcium potassium, all that stuff, but
I'm not 100% certain on how the Esterification process works for
those. It's interesting.
What about like, when you when you took yours, what did you
notice in differently? How do you feel with it?
So when I took it, I noticed that it was a, how much did you
take? That's a good question.
I want to say when I took it because I've taken it, I've
taken it a couple times. I think I've taken 10 grams of
it before, and then I tried it recently at a conference and I
didn't I didn't. It was a shot that was pre-made.
So I didn't know the amount that was in it but what I noticed was
it was definitely a more robust change initially but I didn't
notice as long-lasting. But the other thing is that a
lot of the Just Ketone products out there that are salts are
combined with other things, like caffeine or things that may make
those a little bit longer let the feeling a little bit longer
lasting as opposed to the Esther just being the Esther.
So that was kind of what I know is.
But I did notice like, I mean, my Ketone mobile shot through
the roof. They were turned back to
Baseline pretty quickly, but I did notice kind of like that you
feeling of euphoria from taking it.
Yeah, I I took 60 grams. So, pretty good.
Pretty good dose and I noticed Just like a warming sensation
throughout my boards. You did you feel that way?
Yeah, definitely. It's it's almost like I'm trying
to think about it to be honest. It's not too much different than
taking a shot of alcohol. Like a kind of reminds me of
like intake, like whiskey or something like you get that
feeling again. Yeah.
And you know, not necessarily in
a bad way like not making you feel sick or anything.
But you, dude, I definitely do. Remember getting that feeling
when I took it. Yeah, I mean my ketones went
from like I think point for 24 in like It was crazy.
Yeah. And then, but then, they, that's
what I've noticed is that like I think like if you were to look
at a graph and, you know, this is just speculation, but I think
you would see that, like, you know, the Esther might go
straight up more like this but then the, you know, the, the
salts might be more like this, more of like a subtle change but
then eventually, there, I think the peak is pretty similar on
both of them. But it also is probably
dependent on the individual. Yeah.
And probably in, there's so many variables at play, like, what
you're doing with that time that you've taken it.
It etcetera, Etc. Yum.
So what battle of supplements in that had talked about?
Okay? Is there any other that you
recommend or our youth? Yeah, so I guess the only other
ones that I use right now are other than, like, the adapters
is. Like, I talked about, I take a
couple times a week. I take a nighttime formula where
it's I take a blend of its magnesium 3 and 8, which is
supposed to be the, the type of magnesium.
That's You're more specific to like, aiding in your sleep.
That, you know, a lot of times being deficient magnesium can be
wide. Some people report, not getting
great sleep on keto, so I take a blend of that with Gaba and a
very low dose of Melatonin, but I only take that about three
times a week. It's just our two or three times
a week. It's just when I'm trying to get
like real deep sleep so that that's kind of one of.
That's three of my supplements. I take in my night stack and I
also add 5-HTP to it. Have you ever taken 58 HTTP.
And so 5-HTP is it's a precursor to serotonin so it can be like
for the reason why I take it is that it can help with sleep.
It can kind of help with like relaxing you a little bit giving
you like you can help get you in like a deeper state of sleep and
stuff. So I take about 200 mg of that
before I go to bed, that was something that was recommended
to me, by Sean Wells, actually recommended that taking that one
to me. So that that's kind of the other
ones that I take. But other than that, I think
that's that's pretty much the primary ones that I take.
Let's check out the 5-HTP. I, I've used melatonin, but I
always feel so much more groggy the next day with no.
Its own even in low doses. Yeah, so I try and not do that
so much. I've noticed though, that when
I'm keto I don't need as much sleep.
Like six hours is better than eight hours when I had carbs,
but yeah, I've been used to have trouble falling asleep.
The the leaner, I get the less I sleep for whatever reason, but
I'm not been having trouble sleeping.
Now, I've had, I've had trouble waking up.
I think it's because it's high protein, a much more tired in
the mornings for whatever reason.
Yeah, yeah, no. That's, that's something that I,
there's actually, like a lot of reasons why you may require a
lot less sleep on keto, but for me, it's like, I know I work a
little bit of a crazy schedule, and I like to work late at
night, so I only take it, like, I play basketball, 3 days a week
in the morning at like, 5:00 in the morning.
So, I won't take it before that because I'll either miss my
alarm at that time in the morning.
Or I'll be too groggy to want to do anything.
So I'll only anytime I take like gabo or melatonin I'm taking it
you know on a night where I can get a full eight hours of sleep
and but you know, same thing though.
I've definitely noticed it. Like, I don't require nearly as
much sleep on keto that I used to.
Yeah, that's good. How you doing on time?
I don't know what your schedule is.
Like I'm good. Whatever you need man.
I'm here. All right.
Sweet. I love to dive into you play
basketball. I'm a bodybuilder.
I love to talk. I mean, there's a whole lot of
research out there for Ernst athletes using Ketone and I mean
that's pretty much undisputable. I think I think I mean you start
tapping into that greater fuel reserve.
It just makes sense from an insurance perspective when it
comes to, you know, hypertrophy and muscle growth.
I'd love to kind of go into the Weeds about what the science is
showing, you know, as ketones. You know, are used for that
because like I don't know near as much science you don't, and
so I'd love to just get your piano, like, you know,
testosterone precursor, that's cholesterol and your cholesterol
is likely going to be higher with ketones, the ketogenic diet
because you're in taking more fat.
So, in theory, you know, it makes sense.
You that more that growth hormone, but what else from like
a hypertrophy standpoint. Yeah, so there's actually a lot
of research out there showing, you know, before we go straight
into muscle building, we could talk about muscle sparing
muscle. Sparing is one of the primary
features of a ketogenic diet It's kind of why you see people
being being able to go pretty hypo caloric and still being
able to maintain muscle mass while they're losing fat.
So ketones themselves are actually able to.
There's research showing that they can actually prevent the
breakdown of like leucine and other muscle proteins.
So you know, having a ketones available and being in a state
of ketosis is going to make it. So your body doesn't have to dip
into those muscle proteins and it's going to, you know, prevent
you from losing muscle mass, you know, while you're going through
like a diet In Phase, which is one of the reasons.
Why, so great for somebody like yourself doing bodybuilding and
somebody that's dieting down, you know, if you have to go
hypochlorite and your training and everything it's going to
make it. So you don't lose a ton of
muscle mass which you know, as being a natural body builder.
That can be a primary concern real quick.
One of the biggest concerns that hear from other competitors as I
was doing this was you know carbs or muscle sparing carbs
and muscle sparing. Yeah carbs are muscle sparing
but I would argue that you know fat and ketones is even more
muscle sparing. Yeah, so I mean the biggest
thing you have to consider when you do that is that you have a
limited carb storage. So you know, if you're dieting
down on a show and everything and you know, most people they
do is they take their carbs down really low.
So if you're getting your carbs down low and you don't have
great glycogen stores and stuff you're not you're going to have
a much more limited availability of that compared to your fat
stores, which even as a lean individual, you're going to
have, you know, a lean individual plus eating a
ketogenic diet. With a lot of exhaustion is fat,
you're going to have plenty of substrate to produce.
Ketones which can be muscle sparing.
So that's kind of the reason why I think that they're better, you
know. Yeah.
Carbohydrates could have that same effect but you're going to
have to eat them in abundance, which isn't going to be most
optimal for what you're trying to do with your body
composition. Exactly.
Yeah. And then, you know, to go the
other wreck route. Now, talk about muscle building,
it's difficult because there hasn't been much research
showing in, this is why what you're doing is so interesting.
There hasn't been a lot of research showing being in a
calorie Surplus. I'm Quito.
Which I don't necessarily think is crucial for hypertrophy on
keto because I've seen I've been in a calorie deficit and I've
deck sudden seen increases in muscle mass and myself in a
calorie deficit. But there's also research out
there showing that ketones have the ability to stimulate muscle
protein synthesis. So, you know, not only are they
limiting the breakdown of protein.
But they're also increasing muscle protein synthesis, which
is great because you know uncaging diet if you're going.
True Quito and your lower protein, you may not be
stimulating muscle protein synthesis from like the protein
in your diet. So the problem is, is there
hasn't been much research to back it up.
There has there's been virtually None, Shall you know, looking at
people and a surplus. So it's kind of more of a self
experimentation thing. But I can tell you like, from
even a team like the ketogenic.com platform when we
post stuff talking about, like the muscle building effects of
Quito and like we get really Really, really strong feedback
from people who have been doing keto for a long time, talking
about how they seen tremendous gains in their muscle mass.
You know is it going to be you know for like somebody like
yourself doing bodybuilding isn't going to be as robust as
as somebody who's taking, you know, testosterone or taking,
you know, steroids and stuff? No, but for somebody who's doing
things naturally, it can be a great way to maintain and build
muscle mass. And and I haven't had the
ability to like just test this throughout my whole process but
like my reasoning is Is that, I mean, if you're eating
carbohydrates, the insulin is produced, I'm an insulin is an
extreme growth factor, you know? So you're going to you're going
to cause muscle growth with that you're going to.
I mean, some people shoot up and slim just to grow muscle, you
know? But you're going to have fat
growth as well. So, I mean, everything grows the
instant cancer cell growth, I mean everything and correct me
if I'm wrong any this, but what with with ketones with ketones,
I mean I'm building muscle and I might not be building muscle at
quite the same rate that I would with carbohydrates.
But when I cut down, I'm going to be maintaining that whereas,
if I was eating much carbs and cut down, I'd have to tap in and
lose some of that muscle. So over time, I feel like while
I may not be gaining, it is fast.
I'm still trending Upward at a faster rate than if I was to go
up and down, cycle it with you, no carbs, through a bulk and cut
season. Exactly.
Yeah, no. 100%, And that's, that's why I think that Quito is
almost like the perfect couple with, with bodybuilding.
It's just, it's so hard because a lot of people, you know, the
bodybuilding space, they don't want to be as restricted.
And, you know, obviously when you start talking about, you
know, getting in like, you know, taking drugs and stuff that can
increase your muscle mass diet doesn't become as important.
But for somebody who's like trying to do things naturally, I
think he knows the perfect storm for a because not only is it
going to be great for maintaining leanness in your off
season it's going to allow you to like you said diet down and
maintain or maybe even build muscle mass.
There's been a lot of stuff showing that being in a calorie
deficit on keto, isn't going to be as harmful to your metabolism
as being in a calorie deficit on another diet.
There's also a lot of stuff showing that the, you know,
typically when you diet, you see a big increase in your hunger
hormones, which is the reason why it's so hard to maintain
weight loss because your hunger hormones are going crazy but
there's actually a lot of research showing that occasional
diet. Attenuates that increase in
hunger hormones, so it's kind of The Perfect Storm for you being
able to come off of Of like a show prep and not be setting
because, you know, most people come off the show prep and
they're setting themselves up for Rapid fat gain, like it's
almost enough about Cravings or high, hungers up metabolism is
down, you know, their insulin resistant probably.
So that that's that's a great way.
And then also, when you talk about keto post competition,
like you were touching on earlier with like, having fat
for like hormone production, there's a lot of research out
there showing like bodybuilders and you know, their hormones
just tanking post competition. So, you know, being on a
ketogenic diet may also be able to help with the after-effects
of a show. So I think it's really The
Perfect Storm. And I mean, I agree completely.
That's that's why I'm set up to do this for the rest of my life.
But I mean, like, it's crazy because so many people in that
Niche, they just want, you know, Cycles are limited, you know,
they're not patient. So like yeah, they might get on
keto for like, you know, a month or two prior to competition, a,
to lose some body fat, but they're not even beginning to
tap into the full potential of the diet and most people don't
think in terms of What's the best thing for me over the
course of the next five, ten fifteen twenty years.
And I mean my way of thinking right now is like, I'm 26.
I'm he turned 26 this month. I'm thinking if I stay keto
continue to train hard, Candida diet clean, you know, I'll be
freaking Untouchable in 15 years, you know, and that's just
kind of the way I'm going about it.
So yeah, I mean, and like a lot of people like, you know, of
course you can, you can die down and you can get lean, you can do
it through taking things or doing different things.
Like you can do it without it, but when you talk about like
sustainability and actually looking at your health, like,
one of the biggest things in the fitness industry is a lot of
people have lost sight of that. It's become more about
Aesthetics and not just about health and that's kind of what I
really like about. Kiito's, that you can have both.
Yeah, you don't have to, you don't have to sacrifice your
health to look good. And you don't have to sacrifice
looking good for your health. You can do both.
And, you know, that's something that unfortunately, when you
start looking at like social media, Tia and stuff on Jean all
these different platforms. You start seeing that that's
almost been lost, and that's why I think he do so great.
Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, when if a competitor was
to truly believe that not only would their performance benefit,
but I mean, their health as well.
I mean, it's just there's no question about it, man.
That's just the best alternative for sure.
Absolutely. What about you know?
Much about like a, you know, hormones as it relates to male
and female because I mean I've got both male and female clients
and they both Tend to react much differently.
So I'd love to get your take on on how the difference is, you
know, compare their with keto. Yeah, so a lot of times you know
for males at least I've seen a lot of positive changes in
hormones for males but one of the things that happens is the
people that you'll see reporting like - changes in their hormones
are people that either weren't following it strictly or they
were people who were doing like taking like a cyclic approach.
Or you know, doing taking some approach where they weren't
being as strict as they should have been.
I've seen great things from myself, from other people with
with hormones, from doing keto, not females.
One of the issues that comes into it is because like one of
the reasons why you won't see a ton of research on females with
the stuff is because I mean they changed daily.
You know, they're almost like physiologically.
They're almost a different person every day with with the
fluctuations in their hormones. So it's hard to study this.
But you start seeing, there's a lot of people that are using
like ketogenic diet and they're able to get pregnant and they
weren't able to before, or they were suffering from PCOS, they
were suffering from all these different things and they start
seeing awesome stuff on keto. And I think what tends to happen
with females is that they start to get a little bit more balance
in their hormones and they start not to see like you know as like
maybe their menstrual cycle, start to become a little bit
more balanced out. I've seen that with a lot of
clients but The problem is, is a lot of females don't get that
far because when they start that drastic diet change can lead to
a lot of hormone fluctuations and it can make things go a
little haywire. And then most women get either
discouraged or a little freaked out and they quit.
I'm sure you've seen that with a lot of your clients to but it's
just kind of one of those things like, you know, you got to stick
with it because there's a lot of anecdotal stuff out there about
women who tried for six years to get pregnant.
They did keto for six months and next thing they knew they were
able to get pregnant. So I mean I think that it's
great for them but you know, the thing is, is the fluctuations in
the hormones. For women could be one of the
reasons why it may be harder for a woman for a girl to get in
ketosis. I know we've talked about that a
little bit before about, you know, sometimes like you
probably see with your female clients that, you know, getting
into a state of ketosis is a little more difficult than men,
right? It takes a little bit longer and
they don't tend to see the rapid weight loss as quickly because
it's just simply taking longer for their hormones to regulate.
Yeah. That's exactly right.
So, I mean and that's really nothing new.
I mean, if you look at, you know, any diet like it guys,
usually respond a lot better than women and like I said
that's just because, you know, they're just different everyday,
like they have, you know, their Cravings that they're having
that, you know, for a guy might be attenuated just by getting in
a state of ketosis, that might not happen for a girl because of
fluctuations in their hormones. There's there's a lot of things
that can factor into that. So, you know, it can definitely
be a little more difficult when you first start out.
But I Like the hormonal benefits for a woman on keto are
definitely robust. Yeah, she can't stick with it.
Yeah. What about cholesterol?
Do you know, much about cholesterol as relates to Quito?
Because I know I mean, it seems to really I mean with Quito and
with any other that relates so much based off the individual,
like my numbers have all improved and probably get
testing in the end of this much. Just to keep a pulse on it.
But, you know, a lot of people, their LDL will increase but
that's not necessarily indicative of a bad thing with
keto. If all other markers Haven't
proved, right? Yeah.
So one of the things and like you said, perfectly, it's
different for everybody because I've seen both scenarios, some
people you'll see their total to start their total cholesterol.
Go down on keto and you'll see that it's they're seeing an
increase in HDL. A decrease in LDL sometimes
you'll see total cholesterol go up and while still seeing an
increase in HDL and a decrease in LDL it's just that the HDL is
increasing to a greater extent which is driving Of the total
cholesterol. Sometimes you do see an increase
in LDL cholesterol, and I don't know, the reason why that
happens in some people. But one of the biggest things
that people fail to consider is they're not looking at particle
size when you do that. So vldl, which is, which is a
sub particle of LDL is actually a better indicator of like
atherosclerosis and all of these other like cardiovascular
diseases. That is what a lot of people,
what I've seen in like, dr. Volks research is that he'll see
that, like total cholesterol goes uphill, see an increase in
HDL and increase in LDL, but a decrease in vldl, which is a
better indicator. So, the problem is is if you go
and get blood work done, vldl is more expensive to test.
And in fact, most times they don't even test LDL.
What they test is, they do total cholesterol, then they'll do
HDL, and then they'll just subtract the two because it's
more expensive for them to do that.
So it definitely is. It depends on the person.
I've seen all three of those scenarios where, you know, I've
seen each one of those happen. One of the theories out there,
also on y, LD, L increases is that the body is trying to
maintain a certain ratio of HDL to LDL.
So, while your HDL increases on keto, your LDL has to increase
as well. So you do see that sometimes
too, but you know, that doesn't necessarily not as those
readings aren't as bad as what they used to be back in the day
when they used to. Just think, you know, total
cholesterol is high. That puts you at a higher risk
for heart attacks and stuff. That's definitely not the case.
Yeah, I don't remember what lecture was that.
Listen to basically ever saying that, you know, LDL becomes like
energy Transporters and then as you're, you know, eating a
higher fat ratio, you have more energy to be transported.
So it by default is going to be increased.
Yeah, which makes you act like this.
No, it definitely makes sense. I mean, that's-- and that's--
there. Why you might see the big
difference? To is that not everybody goes,
you know, as high fat on keto, some go higher than others.
Some people, you know, may be utilizing more stored fat for
Ketone production versus, you know, the dietary fat and
everything. So that all that stuff plays a
role. But I think getting blood work
is definitely one of the best things that you can do because
it's hard to know what's going on your body without getting
that done. And you know, there's definitely
different ways to optimize your ketogenic diet based on those
results. So you want to always be getting
that stuff looked at. So you're not just going to kind
of Just so, you know, searching in the dark for what you should
do. So if somebody test and they
have an elevated LDL, what are some other markers look forward
to kind of like ease, the stress levels anxiety.
Like if they have, you know, more of the, The Fluffy larger
LDL particles and I always tell them to look for C-reactive
protein to. Yeah, that's a big one too.
C reactive protein is great but I think that if you're looking
at your HDL and you're looking at your vldl, those are going to
be important. So if you're seeing that vldl is
is Going in the right direction and HDL is going up, that's
going to help you better be a have a better indication of
what's going on rather than just looking at LDL.
Because like you said that numbers, you know, it may have
to go up based on the changes in the diet.
But C reactive protein is also a great one.
And I think like looking at like different like, you know,
looking at any markers of like, inflammation can also be
beneficial because, you know, that's kind of, that's a lot of
those things go hand-in-hand. And, you know, if you're doing
the ketogenic, Well, you should be reducing inflammation.
So that's something to consider to yeah for sure.
So much. Someone's interesting science
going on man. It's exciting, it's exciting.
Yeah. Well I could literally talk to
you all day long - it's been an hour and 25 minutes in this far
though. So my time at kind of here for
anybody doesn't want the three hour version right Lily no I do
for you know if you ever wanna hop on do another one?
You know I'd be more than happy to come back.
Well for Sherman we get we got all kinds of stuff to talk
about. So where can people go to find
out more about you. All right.
So, yes, I have, you know, I like I said earlier, I'm the
director of content for kids nick.com.
So I have, you know, we have social media, we on Instagram
and Facebook, we have at ketogenic calm and then we have
our website, ketogenic.com. And then I also have a personal
page, which is the key to ologist, you know, I mostly just
on Instagram for that one. So it's just at the cute
ologist. So, that's, that's pretty much
and, you know, on there there's I have access to my email.
So I always tell people if you have questions or want.
To reach out about anything. You know, feel free to drop it
in there. I'm not always quickest to
respond. Well, you know, I'll try to get
to everybody's stuff as quick as I can.
Awesome. Awesome.
I love it. Will Chris man.
Always a pleasure. Appreciate learn something every
single time. Talk to you.
All right, well, thanks a lot for having me today.
Robert absolutely man, take care.
To reach out about anything. You know, feel free to drop it
in there. I'm not always quickest to
respond. Well, you know, I'll try to get
to everybody's stuff as quick as I can.
Awesome. Awesome.
I love it. Will Chris man.
Always a pleasure. Appreciate learn something every
single time. Talk to you.
All right, well, thanks a lot for having me today.
Robert absolutely man, take care.