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Everyone knows what TRT is, 
everyone wants to ask about, and

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one of the downsides of that is 
that a lot of the time people 

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who come in wanting TRT 
treatment, metabolic dumpster 

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fires. 
And this is a real problem 

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because these guys have often 
destroyed the endocrine system 

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from years or decades of poor 
health practices. 

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When we're looking at low 
testosterone symptoms, things 

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like anxiety, depression, poor 
sleep quality, lack of energy, 

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anxedonia, which is where people
don't feel pleasure from things 

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that should be pleasurable and 
enjoyable, lack of focus, lack 

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of motivation, lack of drive. 
And the factor that connects 

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these things as well is that 
poor diet and lifestyle will 

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also suppress the testosterone 
levels. 

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In all aspects of improving 
health, whether it's mental 

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health or physical health, you 
have to meet the medicine 

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halfway. 
And we are live, Dave. 

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How are you, Sir? 
My brother, thank you for having

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me. 
Hey man, I'm excited to be 

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chatting with you. 
I've had like multiple guests on

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talking about all things 
hormones, TRTHRT. 

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It's like a super hot topic 
right now, but I kind of want to

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just. 
Wipe. 

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The slate clean. 
Assume I don't know anything and

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just start with a clean slate 
with you, man, because I've 

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heard nothing but good things 
about you. 

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You're super knowledgeable on 
the subject, so let's just dive 

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in man. 
First of all, what gets you into

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this realm of information to 
begin with? 

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Yes. 
So it's, it's a little bit of a,

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a long back story that I won't 
bog you down too much with, but 

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I had no interest in science at 
all when I was younger. 

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I was a musician. 
I did my undergrad degree in 

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digital marketing and I had a 
brain injury when I was in my 

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mid 20s. 
And every Doctor Who I spoke to 

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said that there was no way of 
recovering and I was going to 

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have this permanent Vertigo 
state for the rest of my life. 

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And if it wasn't for initiating 
TRT during those very dark, 

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challenging spaces of my life, 
which was coming up on 10 years 

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ago now, I don't think I would 
have had the mental resolve to 

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go back to university, get a 
postgraduate degree in science 

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and, and learn about how to heal
the brain. 

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And also to learn that 
endocrinology is a very key part

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of human health, which I think 
it's been neglected for a very 

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long time, both in mental health
and physical health. 

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And that transitions me into 
becoming a researcher, becoming 

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an author, becoming a health 
coach, and now being a part 

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owner as well as partner of 
clinics all over the world. 

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And my key mission has been to 
educate. 

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Originally it was to actually 
raise awareness around TRT 

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existing, but I think that 
that's kind of being done now. 

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Five years ago, no one knew what
it was. 

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Now everyone knows what TRT is, 
which I think is great, but it's

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created this new problem where 
you can get TRT everywhere, but 

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no one knows what the hell 
they're doing with it. 

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And I think that it has the 
capacity, of course, more harm 

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than good. 
So my mission has been to 

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educate as many people as 
possible, both practitioners and

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patients, on how to do TRT 
properly, number one, but #2 how

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to do all the other important 
lifestyle factors that you 

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ultimately have to do in order 
to get the results that people 

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are hoping to get on TRT. 
Totally agree. 

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So when you had the injury, how 
old were you when you got on the

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TRT? 
25. 25 and I'm assuming, I mean 

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I've had, I've got one employee 
actually that had like this 

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crazy injury and it messed up 
his endocrine system and he got 

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on TRT for that reason. 
But I would assume the majority 

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of the people that are getting 
on TRT now are kind of by way of

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just lower testosterone in 
general, low libido, things like

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that being the primary draw. 
Yeah, I would say so. 

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I think that if we look at the 
traditional literature and 

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approach for hypogonadism, that 
would tend to be like the male 

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version of menopause. 
Like a guy gets older, hormones 

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decline, and then we were still 
youthful levels, but we've got 

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this whole cohort of younger 
guys. 

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There's a there's a subset of 
men who messed themselves up 

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with anabolic steroids and 
damaged their endocrine system 

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from that. 
But we've got this new wave of 

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younger guys who were coming up 
who either were unhealthy during

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development or for unknown 
reasons, which I think are 

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related to environmental 
factors, that we've got this 

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whole cohort of younger men who 
were doing everything right, who

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still have the testosterone 
level of a 90 year old. 

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And unfortunately, they're going
to the doctors or they're going 

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to healthcare providers. 
They're being told their levels 

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are normal. 
They're getting put on 

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antidepressants and all kinds of
other psychiatric medications. 

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And the issue is that they just 
have 1/4 to 1/3 of the 

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testosterone levels and they 
should have to thrive. 

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And they're wondering why they 
feel like crap, sleep like crap,

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have a terrible sex drive, 
terrible results in the gym, and

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ultimately it's because the 
biologist is completely out of 

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whack. 
You. 

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You probably understand it's way
better than me, but isn't it 

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something like over the last 50 
years test average testosterone 

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has dropped by like 50% or 
something like that? 

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It's difficult to measure 
because we haven't actually been

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able to measure or we haven't 
wanted to slash being able to in

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science and measure testosterone
levels for that long. 

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So we've only got a handful of 
decades of data to look at. 

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Like we don't know what a 
healthy 20 year old in the 1930s

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or 1940s had because we weren't 
able to measure levels in serum 

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not far back. 
But there's been some 

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interesting research that's come
out in this field showing 

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massive declines in testosterone
and sperm levels. 

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The most interesting study that 
I saw, it wasn't actually 

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intending to measure this. 
It was actually an 

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interventional trial using 
estrogen blocking medication. 

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And when they noted the 
participants, they had 

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participants under the age of 30
and participants over the age of

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65. 
And the authors, authors noted 

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that before starting the trial 
that there was no statistical 

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significantly different level of
the younger man versus the older

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men's testosterone levels. 
So the way that I describe it to

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people is the average 20 to 30 
year old these days has the same

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amount of testosterone as the 
average 7 year old these days, 

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and that's the problem. 
That is pretty well man. 

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What what do you think the it's,
it's a myriad of things I'm 

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assuming, but what do you think 
like the primary drivers for 

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that average is decreasing over 
time as a result of? 

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I think that there's a huge 
amount of factors that we don't 

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know which one is causing the 
lion's share of the issue. 

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So we know that there's the 
environmental disruption. 

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So I call it the three PS, the 
plastics pollutions and the 

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pesticides. 
These are the environmental, 

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what are called xenoestrogenic 
estrogenic chemicals, meaning 

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that we're taking unnatural 
synthetic molecules and they're 

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getting into the human body and 
trace amounts through just 

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living and exposure. 
And when they bind to the 

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internal estrogen receptor, they
have a much stronger effect than

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natural biological estrogen 
does. 

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And this can cause some negative
feedback in terms of the way 

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that the brain produces 
hormones. 

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The other factor though, which I
think is often overlooked, is 

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the obesity epidemic and also 
the lifestyle factors that come 

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with that, the processed food, 
the lack of exercise, the lack 

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of sunlight, etcetera. 
And I think one factor that 

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people massively overlook, but 
it becomes abundantly clear when

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you start to look for it in 
clinical practice, is obesity 

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during puberty. 
I mean, this is a new thing. 

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I mean, in the 60s and 70s, kids
weren't obese during puberty. 

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It just wasn't a thing. 
This has been a modern 

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phenomenon. 
And I think when the endocrine 

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system is developing, if someone
is metabolically significantly 

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diseased during that period, I 
also think antidepressant 

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medications might be a factor as
well. 

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But I think particularly obesity
and inactivity, while that 

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system is developing, stunts its
capacity to reach its full 

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potential. 
That's just what I've seen, and 

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I hope that the literature 
catches up and looks into this, 

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because it's pretty damn obvious
when you look. 

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Yeah. 
Do you think there's much of an 

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impact from like a genetic and 
epigenetics standpoint? 

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Because like, I look at my life,
you know, personally and I'm 

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healthy, I'm eating all the 
right foods. 

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I've like removed all the 
negative chemicals, the soaps, 

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like I purify my water. 
Like I I do all the right 

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things, check all the boxes, so 
to speak. 

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But I've never had particularly 
high testosterone. 

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So I'm in my mind, it's like, 
well, maybe I'm coming from some

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genetic standpoint that just 
doesn't have that high 

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testosterone to begin with. 
So do you think there's that 

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much of an impact? 
Epigenetics are really big, and 

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epigenetics is a much more 
exciting field for people to be 

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looking into than genetics 
because epigenetics are how 

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things express. 
So you've got genetic things, 

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for example, like the color of 
your eyes, like nothing is going

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to change that in terms of how 
you're living. 

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That's passed down in 
hereditary. 

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So when we're looking at 
epigenetics, there's a lot more 

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research now showing that. 
I mean, it's what we all know 

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just from common sense. 
Healthy parents have healthy 

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kids, unhealthy parents have 
unhealthy kids. 

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And we're learning more about 
how the health of the parents, 

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both the mother when she's 
pregnant, but also both parents 

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in the years prior to 
conception, will impact the 

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health of the child in the way 
that child's genetics will 

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express. 
So I think it is a huge, huge, 

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huge factor. 
And I think that there are some 

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things that people can do in 
terms of their diet and 

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lifestyle factors to change the 
way these epigenetics express. 

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But I also think that some of us
are just dealt a certain hand. 

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And I don't think it's ideal 
that younger people need hormone

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replacement therapy. 
I think that's a big shame. 

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I mean, hormone replacement 
therapy is a big serious medical

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intervention, but so is being 
hypogonadal for your entire 

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adult life. 
So if we're in a situation where

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we're saying, OK, this is 
something that people are being 

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born with now and it's an issue 
of the modern diet and 

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lifestyle, If it's not something
that we're able to correct, it 

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is something that we're able to 
intervene with. 

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And the outcomes that we see 
from intervening with that are 

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absolutely life changing, which 
is why I dedicated my whole life

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in Korea to advancing this field
and also, you know, champion and

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advocating for men to really be 
educated on the topic and also 

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00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,040
be able to have informed 
conversations with seeking out 

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00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,280
therapy to improve their life. 
Totally. 

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And if people go to like get 
their blood drawn, I mean all 

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00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,600
these tests have like a window 
of what they say the ideal range

199
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:00,640
is. 
But like when you look at total 

200
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,520
testosterone, that window is 
like from 200 to 1200 or 

201
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,680
something crazy. 
So you could be in range at, you

202
00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:10,320
know, 20250IN. 
You working with people over the

203
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,560
years, Like what would you say 
is the optimal range that people

204
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:16,520
should strive for? 
You know, more narrowed down 

205
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,640
than what that broad range 
exhibits. 

206
00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:21,600
Yeah, it's, it's really 
challenging when people are 

207
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,720
looking at the ranges, 
especially when people are 

208
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,160
interpreting their own blood 
work. 

209
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,440
And I think access to 
information is great, but I also

210
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,800
think that access to information
that you don't understand can 

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00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,720
lead to bad decisions. 
So one of the challenges is that

212
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,000
when you're looking at your 
blood tests and it says that you

213
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,640
should be between X&Y, the 
question is what does that 

214
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,680
actually mean? 
And people think that if it's 

215
00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:45,800
below that or above that, you've
got a problem. 

216
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,000
And if you're within that range,
then you're fine. 

217
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,160
You know, if it comes up bold 
and in red, then there's an 

218
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,320
issue. 
And for some blood markers, 

219
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,000
that's absolutely true. 
The ranges absolutely do 

220
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,240
represent what is healthy and 
what is unhealthy. 

221
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,960
But the problem with a lot of 
these blood markers is that 

222
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,400
they're just adjusted based on 
averages. 

223
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:10,040
So when we look at science, the 
terms that we use would be the 

224
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,120
mean, which is like the average,
and then standard deviation, 

225
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,280
which is basically how far away 
from the average these things 

226
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,600
are. 
And this is how they calculate 

227
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,840
the range. 
So when you're looking at your 

228
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,840
total testosterone blood work 
and it's got a range of let's 

229
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,400
say like, you know, 200 used to 
be like 200 to 1200. 

230
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,760
Now it's often like 200 to 700 
because it's falling in absolute

231
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,840
freefall. 
Like I've witnessed it fall 

232
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,520
dramatically, like significantly
just in the five years without 

233
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,600
in doing this. 
But if you're looking at that 

234
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,960
number, all you're looking at is
the average and then the 

235
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,400
standard deviation of the last 
100 or 200 guys that got their 

236
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,440
testosterone level checked. 
It's not a benchmark or a 

237
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,440
standard of what it is to be 
healthy. 

238
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,080
It's just a representation of 
the average cohort. 

239
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,400
The problem that we have is that
the average healthy athletic 

240
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,560
young man is not the standard 
population that's getting that 

241
00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:07,680
testosterone checked on average,
because the indication for 

242
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,400
measuring testosterone levels in
the blood from a medical 

243
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,000
perspective is for prostate 
symptoms. 

244
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,240
So what we're typically looking 
out on paper is actually the 

245
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,280
average of elderly men with 
prostate symptoms, and it's not 

246
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,360
age adjusted. 
You know, when you look at a 

247
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,640
woman's progesterone level, 
they've got different reference 

248
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,000
ranges for if she's 
postmenopausal or where she is 

249
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,520
during a menstrual cycle. 
But if you're looking at a 

250
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,320
testosterone level for a man, 
it's the same reference range if

251
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,280
he's 18 or 80. 
So this can create a lot of 

252
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,360
problems for people. 
So because the reference range 

253
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,400
has fallen so dramatically in 
Australia, we use the units and 

254
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,640
animal per liter for total 
testosterone. 

255
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,760
So the numbers look a little bit
different. 

256
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,120
But when I started, the 
reference range was 10 to 35. 

257
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,040
The reference range is now 6 to 
24. 

258
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,840
That's massively different if 
you're looking at where you sit 

259
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,560
relative to like the middle of 
the court bottom quartile or the

260
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:06,360
top quartile of the range. 
So what is now mid range used to

261
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,120
be bottom quarter. 
So unless you're in the top 

262
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,040
quartile of the reference range 
when you're getting your 

263
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,800
testosterone levels checked, it 
doesn't necessarily mean and go,

264
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,240
OK, well, I'm below the top 
quartile so I need TRT, I've got

265
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,240
a problem. 
But what it does mean that if 

266
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,160
you are having some negative 
symptoms and you're not feeling 

267
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,000
100%, it's really important to 
not just look at testosterone, 

268
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,320
but you look at the entire blood
panel. 

269
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,600
And when I say you look at it, I
mean that you solicit someone 

270
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,080
who knows what they're doing. 
You can see the whole picture 

271
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,640
together. 
And also who is advocating for 

272
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,600
your best interest? 
Unfortunately, there's a lot of 

273
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,160
people out there who just sell 
you testosterone and peptides 

274
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,080
and injectable beers and 
whatever pills because that's 

275
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,880
how they make their money. 
But if you work with someone who

276
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,640
actually knows what they're 
doing, they can look at your 

277
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,920
symptoms and how you're feeling 
and say, look, this is actually 

278
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,640
something that you could and 
maybe should intervene with to 

279
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,320
have a better quality of life. 
Or if they know what they're 

280
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,520
doing, they can say, well, 
actually your levels are pretty 

281
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,080
average, but the way you're 
looking after yourself is pretty

282
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,560
damn average as well. 
And if you're not sleeping 

283
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,280
properly, you're not eating 
properly, you're drinking a 

284
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,560
bunch of alcohol, you're not 
exercising, you're able weight, 

285
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,320
then you're not going to have 
optimal testosterone levels. 

286
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:17,800
And that's what you should 
expect. 

287
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,840
So it's important that people 
understand that sometimes this 

288
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,120
condition can be intractable, 
meaning it can't be solved and 

289
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,400
it requires intervention. 
But other times people's 

290
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,280
testosterone levels suck because
they're looking off themselves 

291
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,120
like shit. 
And that's just how the body 

292
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,960
works. 
Yeah, no, I think lifestyle 

293
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,160
factor is huge for sure. 
When you when you're looking at,

294
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:39,720
you know, you mentioned kind of 
like you look at women, they're 

295
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,840
going through menopause, their 
different menstrual cycles are 

296
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,800
going to expect different ranges
in in the realm of males, what 

297
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,120
would be, you know, textbook 
expectation throughout their 

298
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,480
livelihood, like a different 
ages, puberty as they get older.

299
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,240
Like what? 
What can someone expect if they 

300
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,160
are healthy? 
If they are doing the things 

301
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:58,920
right? 
Like what? 

302
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,040
What would be an ideal trend 
line, so to speak? 

303
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,760
If we're going to talk about 
total testosterone, which is a 

304
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,080
measure of what the body 
produces, so there's two lab 

305
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,040
markers we typically look at for
testosterone 1's total, which is

306
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,080
either how much you're making or
how much you're taking. 

307
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,680
And then freeze testosterone, 
which is more of an indication 

308
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,680
of what's working at a receptor 
level. 

309
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,160
But that's going to be impacted 
by other binding proteins and 

310
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,680
their production in the body. 
So if we're talking about total 

311
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,720
testosterone, I think a good 
healthy level for a young man is

312
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,880
1000. 
If it's got 4 digits and that's 

313
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,280
really healthy, you definitely 
want to be closer to 1000 than 

314
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,240
500. 
I think that's a good rule of 

315
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,320
thumb. 
The problem is that guys are 

316
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,360
walking around with A200300400 
testosterone level. 

317
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,400
This is what we would expect for
a guy in your 60s and seven. 

318
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,080
So if you're in your 30s or if 
you're in your early 40s and 

319
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:53,240
you're thriving and doing well, 
708 hundred testosterone is 

320
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,240
good. 
If you're younger and you're 

321
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,280
kicking ass and you're looking 
after yourself really well, 1000

322
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,760
plus is fantastic. 
Anything on the 500 or mid 5 

323
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,320
hundreds I would be looking at 
as suboptimal and anything below

324
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,280
that you're looking at maybe 
needing an intervention in terms

325
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,000
of therapy. 
Now there are differentiating 

326
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,000
factors in terms of something 
called receptor availability. 

327
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,200
So hormones don't do anything in
the body unless they activate a 

328
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,480
receptor. 
Kind of like if you're playing 

329
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,400
pinball, you don't get any 
points until it hits the 

330
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,640
bumpers. 
So we can't measure things like 

331
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,760
receptor availability. 
So some guys might feel great at

332
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,200
500 because they have this 
genetic expression where they're

333
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,840
more sensitive to the antigens. 
So it's not a hard rule or 

334
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,760
anything like that. 
But you want to be shooting for 

335
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,800
4 digits or close to that to 
have good testosterone levels. 

336
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,160
And then when we optimize 
testosterone levels exogenously,

337
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,680
we can sometimes look to push it
a little bit higher, because 

338
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,400
what we find in practice is that
external testosterone isn't 

339
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,280
quite as efficient as naturally 
made testosterone. 

340
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,400
So sometimes levels have to be a
little bit on the higher end to 

341
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,440
achieve a result. 
But we're also in a situation 

342
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,599
where we're saying, well, we've 
already shut the endocrine 

343
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,640
system down. 
It takes just as much work to 

344
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,520
inject this much as it does to 
inject a fraction more. 

345
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:15,319
So now we can actually achieve 
what the optimal level of 

346
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,960
testosterone could have been all
along. 

347
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,520
And that's where the magic can 
happen. 

348
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,079
You can turn a bad situation 
into a good situation. 

349
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,560
Got you. 
If someone has more sensitive 

350
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,000
receptors, for instance, if we 
can't test for that, do we do 

351
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,000
things based more so off of 
symptoms and how they're 

352
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,040
feeling? 
And I'm, and if so, what is it 

353
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,440
you're looking for? 
Like who's a good candidate for 

354
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,840
TRT in that regard? 
Because I again, use myself an 

355
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,160
example. 
I've never had super high 

356
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,840
levels, but I don't really feel 
any of the things that people 

357
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,320
that reportedly have low levels 
are expressing. 

358
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,200
So I would assume that maybe my 
receptors are more sensitive. 

359
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,080
Absolutely. 
So it's very important to look 

360
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,160
at the cross section of symptoms
in lab work. 

361
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,280
The problem with low 
testosterone symptoms isn't that

362
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,680
very broad and very ambiguous. 
So one thing is that low 

363
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,120
testosterone symptoms and low 
thyroid symptoms are virtually 

364
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,160
identical. 
So it's always important that we

365
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,560
also screen the thyroid 
dysfunction as well because that

366
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,760
can also be a factor. 
But when we're looking at low 

367
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,800
testosterone symptoms, things 
like anxiety, depression, poor 

368
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,800
sleep quality, lack of energy, 
anxedonia, which is where people

369
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,520
don't feel pleasure from things 
that should be pleasurable and 

370
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,600
enjoyable, lack of focus, lack 
of motivation, lack of drive, 

371
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,440
sexual dysfunction, not waking 
up with erections, things like 

372
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,520
this. 
The problem is that those 

373
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,480
symptoms can all be caused by 
poor dying lifestyle, and the 

374
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,760
factor that connects these 
things as well is that poor diet

375
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,760
and lifestyle will also suppress
the testosterone levels. 

376
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,280
So the body is a very complex 
series of interconnected systems

377
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,600
and one of the failures of many 
aspects of healthcare, 

378
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,520
everything from fitness and 
nutrition all the way to Western

379
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,640
medicine, is that we view 
everything in isolation. 

380
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,400
It's like going to five 
different types of mechanics and

381
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,200
having them all service one 
individual component of your 

382
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,160
car. 
It doesn't make any sense and it

383
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,480
doesn't deliver the best 
outcome. 

384
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,360
So the challenge for a 
practitioner who actually cares 

385
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,240
about their patients or clients 
and knows what they're doing is 

386
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,640
that we have to look at how the 
individual's feeling, look at 

387
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,400
their blood work, and say, are 
these symptoms actually coming 

388
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,200
from the levels being 
suboptimal? 

389
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,640
And if so, are the levels 
suboptimal in a way that we 

390
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,520
can't resolve? 
And there are markers in the 

391
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,120
blood work that we can look at 
to see if testosterone 

392
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,960
production is being suppressed. 
If the testicles are failing, we

393
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,880
can also look at other blood 
markers to suggest, hey, is this

394
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,400
person pre diabetic? 
Do they have something like 

395
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,360
fatty liver disease? 
Are they eating a garbage diet 

396
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:51,000
that's jacking their 
triglycerides up? 

397
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,560
We can get a lot of indicators 
that really give us some good 

398
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,000
insight on how someone's looking
after themselves, but it's also 

399
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,800
incredibly important. 
This is why 15 minute doctor's 

400
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,200
appointments don't work, is that
people need to be upfront and 

401
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,920
disclose all aspects of how 
they're looking after 

402
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,400
themselves. 
Because some people have those 

403
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,520
symptoms because, you know, 
they've got a newborn baby and 

404
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,840
they're an entrepreneur and 
they're not sleeping properly 

405
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,880
like that. 
There can be so many factors 

406
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,240
that will lead to these symptoms
in a transient way. 

407
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,600
And if you come in and 
supercharge the engine by 

408
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,560
cranking up the testosterone 
levels, if the body is naturally

409
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,920
suppressing that system, you're 
not going to end up with a 

410
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,160
smooth ride forward. 
If the body's pumping the brakes

411
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,400
and you're pumping the 
accelerator, you're not working 

412
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,200
with the body now, you're 
working against it. 

413
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,360
So when you go and see someone 
with these symptoms and 

414
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,560
comprehensive blood work, it 
really has to be a skillful 

415
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,480
practitioner or an expert 
looking at this to actually make

416
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,120
the diagnosis to say, yeah, 
look, TRT would be in your best 

417
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,720
interest. 
Or maybe you just need to fix 

418
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,200
these other factors and see how 
you go and then come back over 

419
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,040
time to see if you're feeling. 
Yeah, I definitely want to talk 

420
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,160
about the the landscape of TRT 
as you see it. 

421
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,000
Real quick before I forget 
though, Andrew kept messaging me

422
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,400
about this graph that he's seen 
you illustrate that basically 

423
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,880
just talks about, you know, 
lifestyle factors in current day

424
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,280
society, like as as people get 
busier, they have kids, they're 

425
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,120
young professionals. 
It's kind of like corresponding 

426
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,080
with what's happening naturally 
in the body with testosterone. 

427
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,640
I don't know if you know what 
graph he's talking about, but if

428
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:23,920
you do, can you elaborate on 
that? 

429
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,800
Yeah, interesting story with 
that one. 

430
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,760
So I was, I was emailing the 
team at the Mark Bell Powell 

431
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,520
Project to ask if I could be a 
guest for like a year. 

432
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,440
And, you know, never heard that.
Totally fine. 

433
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:36,600
I'm sure they got a whole bunch 
of emails. 

434
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,680
And then when I did my speech at
the Silverback Summit, I did 

435
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,880
this graph the night before in 
Canva with like squiggly lines 

436
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,000
that I just, you know, I don't 
have any graphic design skills. 

437
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,960
And after the speech, Andrew saw
my speech and he was like, hey, 

438
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,840
you need to come on the power 
project and you need to bring 

439
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,760
that graph. 
And I was like, well, I need to 

440
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,160
do the graph a little bit better
because the one that I did looks

441
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,920
like absolute garbage. 
So the power project came out a 

442
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,120
couple of days ago, the graph 
presentations at the end, but 

443
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,240
I'll explain it to you now. 
So the, the way that I look at 

444
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,200
it. 
So I'm, I'm very interested in 

445
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,480
behavioral psychology and I'm 
very interested in 

446
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,840
neuropsychiatry. 
So the difference between 

447
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,200
psychology and psychiatry. 
Psychology is more about 

448
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,960
behavior, mood, emotions, and 
psychiatry is more about the 

449
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,360
architecture of the brain and 
neurotransmission and how this 

450
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:24,920
facilitates the psychology of 
the individual. 

451
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,400
So I'm very interested in both 
of these things. 

452
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,320
And when I did my post grad, 
it's called a postgraduate 

453
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,920
diploma, so you can do a 
master's in a field that you 

454
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,600
didn't do your original 
undergrad in. 

455
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,240
I did that in biomedical science
so that I could do 

456
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,360
neuropsychiatry to learn how to 
heal the brain. 

457
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,840
Turns out psychiatry is just 
about drugging people, so I 

458
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,000
dropped out of it pretty 
quickly. 

459
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,800
But the reason I got into 
looking at testosterone was that

460
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,360
when you look at it from a 
psychiatric perspective, 

461
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,320
testosterone is basically the 
perfect pharmacological 

462
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,960
antidepressant for men in terms 
of how it impacts 

463
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,840
neurotransmission. 
So when we look at how 

464
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,280
testosterone levels work in in, 
well, both men and women, but 

465
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,920
particularly in men, basically 
you flatline the testosterone up

466
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,120
until you get puberty. 
And then you get that big spike 

467
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,560
that everyone's aware of when 
you're 18 to 21, depending on 

468
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,920
your development. 
And then assuming that you look 

469
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,600
after yourself in a relatively 
consistent way over the course 

470
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,920
of your life, you get a 
relatively linear decline. 

471
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,840
You know, women more so get a 
crash when they get menopause. 

472
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:27,600
Men get more of a really gradual
insidious decline over their 

473
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,680
lifetime, but it peaks when 
you're 18 to 21, and then it 

474
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,120
gradually declines after that. 
And when we look at how life 

475
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,160
tends to work, again, assuming 
that people don't have a 

476
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,120
traumatic childhood and assuming
that things go relatively OK to 

477
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:44,640
people, life's pretty crazy when
you're a toddler and when your 

478
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,240
testosterone's low, you don't 
have any responsibilities. 

479
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,280
You're going to school, you're 
playing video games, hang out 

480
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,200
with your friends. 
And then as you get older, 

481
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,840
there's this increased burden of
performance that men have. 

482
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,320
You know, I think that we really
become adults at 30, not at 18, 

483
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,280
you know, 18 year old boys and 
not adults. 

484
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,720
They can just legally drink and 
drive. 

485
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,440
They're not adults. 
I think men become adults when 

486
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,480
they hit 30. 
And then as you get towards your

487
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,400
40s, you're more expected to 
have some degree of mastery 

488
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,720
either over a skill over 
yourself, over leading a family,

489
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,800
over leading other people. 
It's expected that a 40 or a 45 

490
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,480
year old man is going to have 
his shit together, whereas it's 

491
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,800
kind of acceptable for a 20 to 
25 year old guy to still be like

492
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,600
finding himself and goofing 
around a bit from like a 

493
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,560
societal standpoint. 
So as the burden of performance 

494
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,280
goes up in life, the 
testosterone levels are there to

495
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,000
buffer that, and that all works 
out pretty well. 

496
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,200
And then as the testosterone 
levels go down over time, the 

497
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,280
burden of performance also goes 
down because as you get older, 

498
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,880
you've built your family, you've
built your legacy, you can kind 

499
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,320
of sit back, put your feet up, 
retire, and chill out. 

500
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,560
The problem that we're having 
though, is that that burden of 

501
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,800
performance in society hasn't 
gone away. 

502
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,520
Absolutely not. 
But if the testosterone levels 

503
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,200
are peaking at half of where 
they were before, all of a 

504
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,280
sudden now the burden of 
performance for men is still up 

505
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,760
here, but the testosterone 
levels are at that 7 year old 

506
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,960
level when you're 20 or 21 and 
it's all downhill. 

507
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,200
So the problem that I think, and
what I see is that we have these

508
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,960
younger guys who don't have the 
biological foundation to buffer 

509
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,360
them against the stresses of 
life. 

510
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,840
Because when we look at what 
testosterone does internally in 

511
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,760
terms of your biology but also 
in terms of your psychology, it 

512
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,080
buffers against the effects of 
stress. 

513
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,760
So things are still difficult in
life when you've got higher 

514
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,600
testosterone levels, but that 
challenge of pushing outside 

515
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,720
your comfort zone feels better. 
You know, I think it's Andrew 

516
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,560
Huberman who says that 
testosterone makes effort feel 

517
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,200
good. 
And that's a very good way to 

518
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,840
summarize how it works because 
it facilitates dopamine 

519
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,720
transmission, which is like our 
pleasure neurotransmitter, but 

520
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,520
it buffers and offsets for a lot
of the activity of cortisol and 

521
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,040
adrenaline in the body. 
And when we look at what 

522
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,080
leadership is, which I think if 
people say, well, what is 

523
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,040
masculinity, Masculinity is 
leadership is testosterone 

524
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,360
creates the capacity to develop 
leadership because leadership is

525
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:24,080
being cool, calm and collected 
and rational in stressful 

526
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,400
situations that would overwhelm 
other people. 

527
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,400
That's what leadership is. 
So if men are lacking that 

528
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:37,720
leadership and that that drive 
and that ability to push outside

529
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,720
their comfort zone and make 
something of themselves in the 

530
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,000
early phases of their life, I 
think it can be quite 

531
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,560
challenging, demoralizing, guilt
inducing, anxiety inducing to 

532
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,560
get into your 30s and 40s and 
feel like you're behind the 8 

533
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,000
ball. 
Feeling like you don't have 

534
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,160
something to show for it, 
feeling like you're still a 

535
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,160
shadow of who you should be even
when you're trying your hardest 

536
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,000
and doing everything right. 
You're feeling fatigued and 

537
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,720
tired and drained like a 50 year
old when you're 30. 

538
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:11,120
And I think how that impacts the
trajectory of where you end up 

539
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:15,160
and the life you can ultimately 
live is very sad. 

540
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,360
And I think that that can lead 
people to developing and living 

541
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:21,360
a depressive life, which 
ultimately resolves in a 

542
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:22,800
depressive mental health 
disorder. 

543
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,600
So it's it's more so looking at 
this idea that if testosterone 

544
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,160
is not there to create the 
foundation for someone to deal 

545
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,160
with the challenges of 
development and life, that as a 

546
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,600
result, they can get very easily
overwhelmed. 

547
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,920
They can become avoided, they 
can become passive and 

548
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,640
complacent, and they can become 
almost a victim of their 

549
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,680
circumstances. 
And I see that play out and I 

550
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,000
think it can be devastating. 
Yeah, it's, it's it's unsettling

551
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,680
how much more rampant the use of
antidepressants SSR is. 

552
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,120
And things of that nature have 
come. 

553
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,080
I mean, like, I don't know, so 
many people that are on it now. 

554
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,920
It's like, I don't recall any of
that ten years ago. 

555
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,800
You also make a good argument 
with that for like kids, 

556
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,120
adolescents, teenagers having 
more hardship and responsibility

557
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:13,400
bestowed upon them at an earlier
age to kind of just build that 

558
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,080
foundation up while their 
natural levels are significantly

559
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,920
higher, which is also totally 
counter to all our system as it 

560
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,840
sits currently. 
I mean, kids go to high school, 

561
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,240
which is super chill, and they 
go to college, which is also 

562
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,360
typically pretty chill. 
They may be broke, but like 

563
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,360
there's not that much 
responsibility and they graduate

564
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:33,520
college and they go, you know, 
maybe corporate America, who 

565
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,520
knows, But there's not generally
a ton of responsibility until 

566
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,800
30s and beyond from what I've 
seen in general day-to-day 

567
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,360
society. 
It's, it was interesting when I 

568
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,720
was at university. 
I mean, at every point that 

569
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,120
you're at in life, you know, 
you're probably dealing with the

570
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,840
hardest challenges that you've 
developed in terms of like, you 

571
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,360
know, where you're at. 
You know, I remember year 12 

572
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,440
exams seemed like the end of the
world. 

573
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,800
You know, looking back on that, 
that was just a piece of cake. 

574
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,800
Universities seem to be 
challenging when you've got all 

575
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,280
these assessments and deadlines 
and you're working a part time 

576
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,640
job. 
But at the end of the day, the 

577
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,920
burden of performance and the 
responsibility is so low. 

578
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,160
And one of the things I see a 
lot of guys really struggling 

579
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,240
with, especially when they start
to have a family before they've 

580
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,120
learned to look after themselves
properly, which I think a lot of

581
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,240
the time can be a real challenge
and sometimes a mistake as well 

582
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,400
if they're not ready for it. 
But when you become an adult, 

583
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,040
and especially if you're running
a business or you're providing 

584
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,480
for a household, there's only 24
hours in a day. 

585
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,120
You need to sleep for about 7 to
9 of those hours. 

586
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,360
And if you're not effectively 
managing your time for the rest 

587
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,800
of it, you don't have the 
resources to work a fulfilling 

588
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,120
career, look after your health 
and fitness, and also have 

589
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,600
healthy relationships and 
healthy spiritual development as

590
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,680
well. 
So a lot of the time people get 

591
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,320
very overwhelmed with realizing 
just how much execution and 

592
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,040
planning goes into proper 
self-care. 

593
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,560
Because if you're managing your 
nutrition, managing your 

594
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,600
training, and you're working 40 
hours a week, you don't really 

595
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,680
have time to get wasted on a 
Saturday night and be hungover 

596
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,440
all day Sunday. 
And for the guys who continue to

597
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,760
do that as they get older into 
their 30s and 40s, they're 

598
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,600
really behind the 8 ball and 
that's when things can start 

599
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,160
catching up with them. 
So when you don't have that 

600
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,680
internal drive and energetic 
resources of having a good 

601
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,280
energy metabolism, which is also
supported by the endocrine 

602
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,680
system, it can be very difficult
to live a life that is not 

603
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,600
overwhelmingly stressful and 
still have something to show for

604
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,600
it at the end of the day. 
Yeah, completely agree. 

605
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,800
When it comes to like we're also
in this like weird state where 

606
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,320
infertility rates are 
significantly high. 

607
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,520
Is that how tightly linked is 
that to total testosterone, free

608
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,360
testosterone? 
Is that more so the health of 

609
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,160
the sperm, sperm motility, 
things like that? 

610
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,240
Like how closely linked is all 
that? 

611
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,360
There's not a lot of data 
linking the two, which doesn't 

612
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,800
make any sense because obviously
the sperm and the testicles are,

613
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,520
you know, kind of interconnected
in virtually every way. 

614
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,120
So there's absolutely a 
connection. 

615
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,320
It's not really deniable with 
this stage. 

616
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,720
One thing that's interesting for
me, So if I look around at women

617
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,560
who I've met over the course of 
my life, who've been about my 

618
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,320
age, give or take, more than 
half of them have had issues 

619
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,720
with their menstrual cycle. 
Whether it's like brutally 

620
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,120
painful periods, endometriosis, 
polycystic ovarian syndrome, 

621
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,160
losing their period when they're
stressed, all that kind of stuff

622
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,360
is rampant in women under 35. 
When my parents were that age, 

623
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,680
they didn't know anyone with 
those problems. 

624
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:45,680
This wasn't the thing. 
And when it comes to men, those 

625
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,480
issues are still prevalent and 
present. 

626
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,440
The symptoms of them just don't 
really show up until it comes 

627
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:59,720
time to fire the children. 
So it's very concerning how many

628
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,760
young and relatively healthy 
people are having problems with 

629
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,960
fertility. 
And it can be very scary and 

630
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,080
very devastating when guys in 
their mid 30s are having trouble

631
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,200
conceiving. 
And one of the challenges that I

632
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,680
see when guys do their sperm 
analysis is a lot of the time 

633
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,040
the issue is in the lack of 
sperm production. 

634
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,440
It's a high percentage of sperm 
that are not healthy. 

635
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,360
So either they're lazy and the 
sperm aren't moving properly, or

636
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,240
they have a higher rate of 
deformity. 

637
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,000
So there's always going to be 
some deformed sperm in an 

638
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,880
ejaculate load when they do a 
test on it. 

639
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,280
But we're seeing guys who are 
having all kinds of deformities 

640
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,000
in their sperm and I think that 
this is a downstream effect of 

641
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,040
long term metabolic dysfunction.
So people being a little bit 

642
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,960
overweight for way too long is 
basically causing them to be pre

643
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,360
diabetic or sometimes they're 
even in type 2 diabetes realm 

644
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,520
and they don't realize it. 
This has huge negative effects 

645
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,040
on sperm parameters and 
fertility. 

646
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,480
But the other factor which 
unfortunately I mean the SSRI 

647
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,640
hypothesis of depression, which 
was called the monomine 

648
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,000
hypothesis of depression, which 
was this theory to monomine 

649
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,320
meaning 1 neurotransmitter, in 
which this case was serotonin. 

650
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,920
There was this theory in the 80s
that people were depressed 

651
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,840
because their brain was broken 
and it didn't produce enough 

652
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,600
serotonin to make them happy. 
And this theory was thoroughly 

653
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,480
debunked in the 90s. 
Both in terms of looking at the 

654
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,640
mechanisms of how depression 
works, but then also looking at 

655
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,200
all the massive amounts of data 
on interventional trials with 

656
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,000
SSRIs where they found that the 
placebo beat the SSRI. 

657
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,640
So the SSRI didn't work, or the 
SSRI was outperformed by other 

658
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,440
interventions like diet and 
lifestyle. 

659
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,960
But unfortunately, even though 
that research was so, so 

660
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,720
abundantly clear, we're like 3 
decades down the line from this 

661
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,800
and this is still the modern 
paradigm that's being practiced 

662
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,800
in psychiatry. 
When someone goes to the doctor 

663
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,600
and they're saying I don't feel 
good in my life, the doctor 

664
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,520
isn't looking at anything in 
terms of their diet, lifestyle, 

665
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,840
blood work, anything like that. 
They've just got a little 

666
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,120
handbook that says if someone's 
sad, give them this many 

667
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,560
milligrams of Zoloft and send 
them on their way. 

668
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:16,040
And the problem is that not only
does this not actually help the 

669
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,880
issue, but it's leading to 
downstream ramifications. 

670
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,000
And I'm seeing this show up a 
lot of the time in fertility as 

671
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,800
well. 
So psychiatric medications for 

672
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,440
men as well as hormonal birth 
control for women. 

673
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:32,000
You know, it's, it's crazy to me
that women are getting pushed 

674
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,280
onto the pill by their doctor 
for acne when they're like 14 

675
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,480
years old and they're not 
looking at other factors for 

676
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,480
that. 
And then, yeah, we're getting 

677
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,480
into our 30s, wanting to have 
kids, and we've got a decade of 

678
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,000
psychiatric or hormonal birth 
control medication use. 

679
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,280
And all of a sudden the 
fertility complications are 

680
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,040
there. 
And we're not really sure how 

681
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,280
this is going to affect the next
generation of kids. 

682
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,600
And I think that's a little bit 
scary. 

683
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Yeah, from an epigenetic 
standpoint, man, this is super 

684
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,080
scary because like you look at 
your lifestyle decisions having 

685
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,960
a profound impact on like the 
next three generations. 

686
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,800
And if we've got the infertility
issues or if you've been, if 

687
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,240
you've been fathered by lazy 
sperm, quote UN quote, like 

688
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:11,640
that's not a positive thing 
either. 

689
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,560
And people on all these 
medications as they're getting 

690
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,680
pregnant, that having an impact 
on the fetus. 

691
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,480
Like I don't know what the 
solution is to all this, but it 

692
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,640
seems like it's going to be by 
way of like some implosion at 

693
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,280
some point, not too distant 
future. 

694
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,240
It will definitely reach a 
critical point. 

695
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,920
And, you know, we have the 
declining birth rates at the 

696
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,440
moment, which I think it's 
scary. 

697
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,280
But when we reach the point, I 
think in the next decade, there 

698
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,880
are some projections that the 
majority of adults will be 

699
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,680
infertile in a decade. 
I think that's when people are 

700
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,280
going to get a wake up call 
because a lot of people are 

701
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,040
having a wake up call on an 
individual level. 

702
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,720
But from a societal standpoint, 
I think it's swept under the rug

703
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:56,240
because when people have 
problems paying their bills or 

704
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:59,360
paying their rent or affording 
food at the grocery store, this 

705
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,760
kind of stuff isn't a priority. 
And that makes perfect sense. 

706
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,480
You know, we have this Maslow's 
hierarchy of needs and, you 

707
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,880
know, basic food, food, water, 
shelter is the foundation. 

708
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,520
So when that's under stress, 
everything else falls by the 

709
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,040
wayside. 
And that's just human nature. 

710
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,880
There's nothing wrong with that.
But the chronic disease 

711
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,600
epidemic, including mental 
health, obesity, autoimmune 

712
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,160
disease, all of these things 
that we're seeing a huge 

713
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,240
percentage of young people who 
have chronic disease. 

714
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:29,760
Now, when we eventually realize 
that it's all to do with diet 

715
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,320
and lifestyle. 
I mean, I live in Eastern 

716
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,760
Europe. 
I traveled to America, in the UK

717
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,480
and Australia multiple times a 
year. 

718
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,560
And the difference is stock. 
You know, when you're just 

719
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,040
looking around in the street at 
the average people in the 

720
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,640
average supermarket, the West is
significantly sicker than places

721
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,520
like Eastern Europe, even though
we're much poorer over here. 

722
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:51,880
There's a lot more economical 
challenges here. 

723
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,840
It's a lot darker in winter 
here. 

724
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,800
There's a lot more alcohol and 
smoking here. 

725
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,520
There's all of these factors 
which people think would be 

726
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,200
worse, but the modern diet and 
lifestyle in Western countries 

727
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,640
is death by 1000 cuts. 
And it's exciting that so many 

728
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,440
people are waking up before they
get sick in terms of saying, 

729
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,720
hey, I'm in my 20s and in my 30s
and I want to focus on longevity

730
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:14,960
now. 
I want to start looking after 

731
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,240
myself now so that I have a 
better chance to be around my 

732
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,160
grandkids and live a long, 
happy, healthy, you know, high 

733
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,680
quality life. 
But then the challenge is, well,

734
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,520
how do you do that? 
Because depending on which 

735
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,840
website you go on or which 
YouTube rabbit hole your 

736
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,520
algorithm puts you down, you 
could come out with a completely

737
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,320
different strategy with the same
goal. 

738
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,160
Yeah, it is. 
It is interesting, man, because 

739
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,400
I feel like there's definitely 
an abundance of information, 

740
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,120
Internet, technology, social 
media has made that apparent. 

741
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,520
There's no shortage of that. 
And it's like the people that 

742
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,440
are invested in their health 
that want to get better, Like 

743
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,440
there's definitely a demographic
of population that's growing in 

744
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,640
that. 
But it seems like at the same 

745
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,240
time, there's this growing 
demographic that's just getting 

746
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,440
worse and worse and worse. 
And I think that latter 

747
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,320
demographic is growing at a 
bigger, more expedient rate than

748
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,040
the, you know, the the other. 
So I feel like that implosion 

749
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,160
point is bound to happen and 
it's just going to be a a 

750
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,400
widening of the haves and have 
not gap in health. 

751
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,480
Typically people think of that 
in finances or wealth, But like 

752
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,880
in health, at the end of the day
man, if you don't get your 

753
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,520
health like everything else is 
for naughty. 

754
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,760
You know, I have to say my, 
there's two points there. 

755
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,440
So my mentor Paul Check has this
saying, which is that sooner or 

756
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,200
later everyone's health becomes 
their number one priority, which

757
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,800
is absolutely true. 
But the point that you raised 

758
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,360
there is very true. 
And I hadn't made that 

759
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,720
connection before, which is 
that, you know, we looked at 

760
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:39,480
like during the COVID era and 
the destruction of the middle 

761
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,600
class, which was basically, if 
you took 10 people who were 

762
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,480
middle class, nine of them got 
pushed down and then one of them

763
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,200
went up via entrepreneurship and
became wealthier based on the 

764
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,760
situation. 
And I think exactly what you 

765
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,920
just alluded to, the same thing 
is happening with health is that

766
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,560
one or two people out of 10 are 
reclaiming their health and 

767
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,320
getting better. 
But eight or nine people out of 

768
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,960
those 10 getting worse and worse
because there's more hyper 

769
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,200
palatable food, there's more 
things like Uber Eats, there's 

770
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,840
more stimulation you can get 
from the screen in your pocket 

771
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,120
than ever before. 
And it's never been easier to 

772
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,280
live a terribly unhealthy 
lifestyle than it is right now. 

773
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,840
Like it absolutely is effortless
to treat your the body like a 

774
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,360
dumpster fire. 
And also with the working from 

775
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,000
home movement, you know, that 
creates opportunity for people 

776
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,320
to live a much healthier life, 
but it also creates A tendency 

777
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,920
and an impulse for people to be 
way lazier because you can just 

778
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,320
stay at home and do whatever you
like all the time, but no 

779
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,640
supervision. 
So people are like, oh, I'm not 

780
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,960
trapped in an office all day. 
So the people who were actually 

781
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,040
proactive with the health can 
go, OK, instead of commuting, I 

782
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,760
can, you know, get some workouts
in. 

783
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,440
I can go for a walk during the 
day. 

784
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,200
Like, you know, I can maybe get 
some workout equipment at home 

785
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,160
and stretch out and do some yoga
or some body weight work, you 

786
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,760
know, between my calls or 
whatever. 

787
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,280
And I can have healthy home 
cooked food at home in the 

788
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,040
fridge. 
There's so many benefits to it. 

789
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,280
But then I'm also seeing by and 
large, the majority of people 

790
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,000
that step count goes down to 
like 3000 steps a day that then 

791
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,480
on your dedicated exercise 
movement just completely falls 

792
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,400
by the wayside. 
They roll out of bed, they roll 

793
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,280
straight onto Microsoft Teams. 
They're not going for a walk, 

794
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,280
they're not getting any sunshine
because they're just following 

795
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,680
the impulses and they're saying,
well, it's just never being 

796
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,200
easier to be lazier. 
And then when they're. 

797
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,360
Looking on Instagram and they're
making this upward comparison to

798
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,160
all these other people who are 
projecting a version of their 

799
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,200
life which looks so much more 
attractive and sexy and 

800
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,320
desirable and successful. 
I think that it's just leading 

801
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,320
people to absolutely destroying 
their physical and mental health

802
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,400
because they're not taking 
agency and it's easy to be like 

803
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,480
everyone else. 
It is easy to be complacent. 

804
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,280
It is easy to be compliant. 
It is easy to follow the path of

805
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,560
least resistance. 
I mean, that's baked into human 

806
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,400
nature is to conserve resources.
But people have to wake up to 

807
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,120
realize that the modern diet and
lifestyle and environment, if 

808
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,560
you don't proactively work 
against it and take initiatives,

809
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,760
it'll destroy you. 
Yeah, It's interesting. 

810
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,160
I had Mark Bell on the podcast 
earlier this week, and we were 

811
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,720
talking about this very thing. 
And it's like, you know, humans 

812
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,600
are very vain creatures. 
Like, we're creature habits. 

813
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,720
We want things to be convenient.
We want things to be easy. 

814
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:26,120
It's never been easier to be 
unhealthy, but it's also never 

815
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,000
been easier to like be healthy 
too. 

816
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,240
Like you got so many tools, so 
many wearables, so many tracking

817
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,800
devices and technology, so many 
good quality food options that 

818
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,880
are out there. 
And like he's got standards for 

819
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,320
himself. 
I've got tension for myself. 

820
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,680
You do as well. 
Like we would not tolerate, you 

821
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,160
know, putting on an additional 
30 lbs of pure fat. 

822
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,800
Like we would fight against that
out of our own self-interest and

823
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,280
preservation. 
And you would think like people 

824
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,080
that you know are feeling 
unhealthy or obese, they would 

825
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,640
want to feel better and have a 
higher quality of life. 

826
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,480
But it's almost like society's 
standards, what's what's deemed 

827
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,280
acceptable by society has 
decreased so drastically over 

828
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,400
the year, over the years due to 
body positivity or just 

829
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,560
whatever. 
And it's like people's 

830
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,440
individual standards have rather
than held stable and true, have 

831
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,120
just like followed suit with 
what society is accepting. 

832
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,400
And it's a sad reality to to 
witness, but man, it's 

833
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,000
definitely happening. 
It's it definitely is. 

834
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,320
And you raise a really good 
point on food there. 

835
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,000
And this is something I bring up
all the time. 

836
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,280
So one thing that blew my mind 
when I was in the States, I 

837
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,160
mean, there was two things. 
One is the junk food over there 

838
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,720
is incredibly delicious. 
Like I see why so many people 

839
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:39,520
are fat. 
Like the burgers and the stuff 

840
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,800
you guys have over there. 
Incredible. 

841
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,360
But the other thing that you 
guys have there is you have the 

842
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,760
most incredible meal prep 
services that just blow my mind.

843
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,120
The two that I tried obviously 
don't have any affiliation with 

844
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,680
anything in the US, but like I 
tried the Nutrition Solutions 

845
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,600
meals and the Icon meals when I 
was at my friend Ellie Gilberts 

846
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,000
house. 
Meh. 

847
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:04,640
Like in Australia, the best 
meal, like the fitness meal prep

848
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,320
stuff that you can get all 
tastes like garbage. 

849
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,960
Like some of it tastes OK, but 
you'd never look forward to it. 

850
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,400
It's like a 5 out of 10 at best.
I was eating those nutrition 

851
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,160
solution and Icon meals and I 
was like, this is unreal. 

852
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,360
This stuff is awesome. 
And because you've got so many 

853
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,600
companies, it's in the best 
interest of the consumer because

854
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,720
they're all competing, so they 
have to compete on prep. 

855
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:28,920
So it's affordable. 
But when I was doing rehab for 

856
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,520
my brain injury, like I started 
exploring back when Dominic 

857
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,840
d'agostino was first on Joe 
Rogan talking about the 

858
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,640
ketogenic diet. 
So that's when I kind of first 

859
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,600
looked into food to be like, 
okay, maybe there's more to food

860
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,800
than just macros and how this 
tastes. 

861
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,720
I mean, this was many, many, 
many years ago. 

862
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,600
So I had to learn how to cook. 
I had to learn how to, you know,

863
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,160
buy the right ingredients. 
But because I was also doing 

864
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,320
rehab for a brain injury and I 
couldn't work, I was on a 

865
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,120
budget. 
So, you know, I learned how to 

866
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,280
cook things like Stan 
Efforting's Monster mash. 

867
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:58,840
I learned how to meal prep 
properly. 

868
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,880
And then through experience, I 
learned to go and hang on. 

869
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,000
This isn't just about how I look
in terms of, you know, calories 

870
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,480
and macros. 
This is the food that is 

871
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,120
building every cell in my body 
that's driving me to feel the 

872
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,120
way that I feel every day. 
And the stuff that I teach my 

873
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,520
clients is going, look, you can 
every now and then you can eat 

874
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,000
out in a way that fits your 
macros. 

875
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,280
You can go to the restaurant and
you can order your thing. 

876
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,120
And you know, you could be out 
and about travelling and find 

877
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,560
the place on Uber Eats that does
the healthy thing and get it 

878
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,200
delivered. 
And that's fine to do every now 

879
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,680
and then. 
But you can't live on take out 

880
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,480
food, even if it's macro 
friendly, you can't do it 

881
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,960
because there's just so much 
crap that goes into all those 

882
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,280
processed foods that people are 
buying that over time it causes 

883
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,240
a problem. 
So either you have to learn how 

884
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:42,720
to cook, you have to hire 
someone to cook for you like a 

885
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:46,000
meal prep company, or if you're 
doing really well financially, 

886
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,920
you can hire a chef, or you can 
do what I did and marry a woman 

887
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,360
who cooks. 
But you've got to do one of 

888
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,640
those four things. 
And for most people, it's going 

889
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,160
to be learning to cook or doing 
the meal prep delivery thing. 

890
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:03,120
And if people don't look at that
as a foundation of going, like I

891
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,680
see people obsessing over their 
supplement stacks and they 

892
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:09,080
obsess over milligrams of this 
and milligrams of that, but they

893
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,080
completely neglect the kilograms
of food they're putting into 

894
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,200
their body. 
So when we're looking at taking 

895
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,400
agency over our life, the first 
thing that we have to look at is

896
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,080
the fuel. 
Like when I like my dog just 

897
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,160
turned 1 year old, beautiful 
black Labrador. 

898
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,360
And when he meets up with the 
other puppies from his Lissa, 

899
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,800
which I think is awesome, we do 
it every few months, He looks 

900
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,560
significantly better than the 
other puppies in his litter 

901
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,120
because we're very meticulous 
with the diet that we feed it. 

902
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,320
And when you start to look at 
that in people as well, you can 

903
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,400
tell the quality of someone's 
diet by their skin, by their 

904
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,680
mood, by their energy levels, by
how they act. 

905
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,080
And that's why, you know, I, I, 
I love Mark's content. 

906
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,920
I've been following Mark for a 
long time before I did his 

907
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,560
podcast. 
You know, he's had a very 

908
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,800
interesting kind of journey over
the, the foods that he's kind of

909
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,800
advocated in the way that he's 
eaten through self 

910
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,160
experimentation. 
But the thing that I think he's 

911
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,200
done very, very well for people 
who disagree with the to and 

912
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,880
froing over certain macros is 
that there's a huge onus and 

913
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,560
emphasis on being attentive and 
being aware of the quality of 

914
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,040
the stuff that you're ingesting.
Because once you swallow that 

915
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,400
food, all of that stuff is being
absorbed into your bloodstreams 

916
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,080
through the mucous membrane in 
your body. 

917
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,960
It's literally becoming part of 
you, and you're having a 

918
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,160
biochemical reaction to the last
meal you ate for about up to 

919
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,760
three days to completely 
eliminate that from the body. 

920
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,920
So that's the first thing in 
America that people need to be 

921
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:41,640
focusing on is saying you guys 
have the so many options and so 

922
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,000
many temptations to eat so much 
extremely hyper palatable 

923
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,800
garbage that is so tempting and 
it's everywhere and it's super 

924
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,200
available. 
But you also have such 

925
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,960
incredible food that you can get
prepped for you or that you can 

926
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,440
buy from the supermarket or that
you can buy from places like 

927
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,160
Whole Foods and you can work out
a strategy that fits your 

928
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,720
budget. 
If you don't have any time, 

929
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:05,240
spend your money on meal prep. 
If you don't have any money and 

930
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:07,360
you have an abundance of time, 
learn how to cook. 

931
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,920
Everyone sucks at cooking. 
When people say, oh, I can't 

932
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,400
cook, that's like saying, oh, I 
can't roll the blade. 

933
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,840
It's like we just haven't 
learned how to do it. 

934
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,160
It's a skill that you don't 
have. 

935
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,440
You're not. 
So like some people are born 

936
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,520
master chefs. 
Like it's a skill. 

937
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,000
So when I first started cooking,
my meal sucked. 

938
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,520
By the time I got good at 
cooking monster mash because 

939
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,240
it's all I could afford for like
a year, I would be like drooling

940
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:32,560
when I was microwaving that next
meal because I was so excited. 

941
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,280
Like I think one of the ultimate
bio hacks because I'm so sick of

942
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,040
all these bio hackers just 
selling affiliate code nonsense.

943
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,960
The ultimate bio hack is 
learning how to cook a meal that

944
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,120
you look forward to more than 
anything that you can order off 

945
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,200
at Uber Eats. 
That's the buyer. 100 percent, 

946
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,160
100% man, 100% It's it's funny 
because like, I wouldn't think 

947
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,840
that someone that's £400 and 
obese would argue that, you 

948
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,720
know, fast food take out from 
McDonald's is healthy. 

949
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,280
I don't think anybody is 
delusional to thinking that. 

950
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,840
But I feel like people are 
ignorant to how much that truly 

951
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,000
impacts things, especially when 
compounded over a lifetime. 

952
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,960
And I was on a podcast the other
day and they were like, look, if

953
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,360
you had a Lamborghini car that 
you'd saved up years for and 

954
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,520
bought, you're not going to put 
the cheapest, you know, fuel in.

955
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,440
You're going to put the premium 
quality fuel in it. 

956
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,080
It's like, it's the same thing 
with your body. 

957
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,040
Like your body is your vehicle 
for life. 

958
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:24,720
It's your vessel. 
You've only got one of them. 

959
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,760
And I feel like if people just 
simply made that association, 

960
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,000
they would at least hopefully 
think twice before putting 

961
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,280
something in their mouth. 
And like, for me, I've been 

962
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,800
following the same diet for over
a decade now because I've tried 

963
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,160
multiple diets and know it works
for me. 

964
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,320
I know it feels optimally. 
And if I go out and eat 

965
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,920
something that's even slightly 
off my plan, I feel it the next 

966
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,240
day. 
And that's not a worthwhile 

967
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,280
trade off for me. 
And if people, just people just 

968
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,880
don't know how to be in tune 
with their body and know what 

969
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,080
feeling good feels like, I think
is also often times the issue as

970
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,040
well. 
When it comes to food and you 

971
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,360
having such an emphasis on 
optimizing hormone levels, is 

972
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,400
there a specific dietary 
protocol or macro split or 

973
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,920
certain foods that you try to 
incorporate on a regular basis? 

974
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,920
So I've I've done and tried 
everything nutritionally. 

975
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,240
I'm a very big advocate for both
learning in terms of science, 

976
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:18,560
but also learning by experience 
as well. 

977
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,880
So when it comes to supplements 
or medications or nutrition 

978
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,840
strategies, I don't even work 
with or recommend anything that 

979
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,480
I haven't worked with myself 
personally and also understood 

980
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,880
in terms of science as well. 
So I did a ketogenic thing when 

981
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,240
I had the brain injury. 
And if it wasn't for that, I 

982
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:38,840
wouldn't have been able to 
function enough to go back to 

983
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,200
working three days a week at a 
minimum wage job. 

984
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,480
There was something about the 
ketogenic diet, and I assume 

985
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,240
it's the way that it reduces 
neural inflammation, increases 

986
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:52,280
GABA signaling that allowed me 
to function when I was in a 

987
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,880
brain injury state. 
And I also did the carnival 

988
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,280
thing for a little bit. 
I didn't find that that worked 

989
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,480
particularly well for me. 
This was back when it was, you 

990
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:08,280
know, first kind of popularized.
I never did a full vegan thing 

991
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,000
because that just didn't make 
any sense to me to even try. 

992
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:17,080
But I have done like a very 
heavily kind of plant focused 

993
00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:19,480
diet with just a small amount of
meat. 

994
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,360
And then I've also kind of done 
the inverse with like a very 

995
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,000
heavily meat focused diet and 
small amounts of fruits and you 

996
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,000
know, bittersweet potato and 
stuff like that and everything 

997
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,800
in between. 
If people are looking for a 

998
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:35,560
framework to follow, I think 
Stan Efforting's vertical diet 

999
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,440
is a really good model that 
obviously you adjust areas of it

1000
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,240
because unless you're a high 
level athlete strongman, you 

1001
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:45,200
don't need to be eating, you 
know, 600 grams of carbohydrates

1002
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,960
from white rice. 
But from a model standpoint, in 

1003
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,160
terms of looking at what are the
easiest foods to digest, which 

1004
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,360
are the highest in 
micronutrients that match the 

1005
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,520
requirements of of the human 
body, I think the vertical diet 

1006
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,960
is a foundation. 
And then tweaking and changing 

1007
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,440
that based on what you digest. 
Well, what you do and don't like

1008
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,240
is a good model. 
I also think Mike Dolce has a 

1009
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,080
fantastic approach in nutrition.
If people want someone to follow

1010
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:17,160
and look up to and just have a 
framework or someone to just 

1011
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,040
look at and go, I don't want to 
learn every aspect of this. 

1012
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:21,840
I don't want to spend hours on 
YouTube learning about 

1013
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,440
nutrition. 
You know, who can I just listen 

1014
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,520
to? 
I think Mike Dolce gets it right

1015
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,080
in terms of the foods for 
supporting hormone levels. 

1016
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:34,960
There's a lot of debates and 
arguments around whether people 

1017
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,960
should or shouldn't eat meat, 
whether people should or 

1018
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,200
shouldn't eat plants, that the 
way that it works is that you 

1019
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,880
can absolutely survive on a 
carnivore diet. 

1020
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,720
That's true. 
But to thrive, we do benefit 

1021
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,880
from phytonutrients. 
So phytonutrients are not 

1022
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,120
necessary for human supply, but 
they are necessary for a lot of 

1023
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,640
helpful biological factors for 
the human Organism. 

1024
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,640
So I think the best diet is 
something that includes 

1025
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,040
nutrients that are fat soluble 
in bioavailable form. 

1026
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,400
So for example, if you look at 
something like a carrot or a 

1027
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,640
sweet potato, they're orange. 
So they contain beta carotene, 

1028
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,760
which is the precursor of the 
vitamin A vitamin A is one of 

1029
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:20,160
the five fat soluble nutrients 
being AEDK and cholesterol and 

1030
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,760
vitamin A is very important. 
But a lot of people, 

1031
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,240
particularly Caucasian people, 
in terms of genetics, don't 

1032
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:29,120
metabolize beta carotene into 
retinol very well. 

1033
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,600
So getting the fat soluble 
nutrients in the most 

1034
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:37,120
bioavailable form is objectively
important for hormone 

1035
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,080
production. 
And people will say, well, yes, 

1036
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,280
the body can make cholesterol on
its own, That's true. 

1037
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,120
That's a survival mechanism 
because all your hormones are 

1038
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,040
made from cholesterol, and if 
your cortisol goes to 0, you 

1039
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,480
will drop dead and die. 
That's the way the human body 

1040
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,360
works. 
So you have to be able to make 

1041
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,600
cholesterol endogenously. 
Otherwise if you didn't get a 

1042
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,440
kill during evolution, you would
have just carved out and dropped

1043
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,960
dead. 
But the idea that we can 

1044
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:06,480
generate enough cholesterol 
endogenously by a survival 

1045
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,360
mechanism to optimize hormones 
is also objectively incorrect. 

1046
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,200
So we need some degree of animal
based food in the diet. 

1047
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,120
And for me and a lot of people 
I've worked with looking at 

1048
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,440
their blood work, I've never 
seen someone's health get worse 

1049
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,880
from eating more meat. 
I've only seen people get 

1050
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,440
healthier from eating more meat.
So meat's great for you. 

1051
00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:32,280
Red meat is higher per gram in 
micronutrients than white meat. 

1052
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,360
But chicken, fish, pork, pork in
Eastern Europe is much better 

1053
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,320
because it's more like boar than
like domesticated pig. 

1054
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,560
It tastes way better too. 
But beef is a super food. 

1055
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,960
And then organs are higher in 
nutrients as well. 

1056
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,920
But you know, that's not for 
everyone's palate. 

1057
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,200
And I also think that fruits and
vegetables should also be 

1058
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,600
included in abundance. 
I think that raw leafy green 

1059
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,160
vegetables are not great for a 
lot of people's guts, just based

1060
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,320
on what I've seen. 
I have a lot of guys come to me 

1061
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,160
who are eating like 
meticulously, and they're 

1062
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,360
bloating is just through the 
roof. 

1063
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,360
Their digestion's horrible, and 
they're eating a big bowl of raw

1064
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,120
leafy green salad with pumpkin 
seeds and all this stuff. 

1065
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,000
And that just doesn't go well 
for some people. 

1066
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,640
But I think cooked vegetables 
are fantastic. 

1067
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,320
Potatoes and sweet potatoes are 
super high in minerals, very 

1068
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,040
high in potassium. 
I think fruit is wonderful. 

1069
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,440
Some people will equate like a 
glass of orange juice to a glass

1070
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,640
of Coca-Cola and say, well, it's
all sugar. 

1071
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,040
That's a silly reductionist 
model. 

1072
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,800
When we look at things in 
nature, they contain things that

1073
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,160
buffer. 
So fruit is full of sugar, but 

1074
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,360
it's also full of vitamin C, 
which buffers the oxidative 

1075
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,640
processes when it comes to 
metabolizing sugar. 

1076
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:46,440
Same with coffee. 
You know, coffee is full of 

1077
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,480
caffeine, which is a stimulant, 
but then it's full of 

1078
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,400
phytonutrients and all the 
minerals that caffeine depletes 

1079
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:54,840
in the body. 
It's almost like they were put 

1080
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,280
together for a reason. 
So I think fruit is fantastic. 

1081
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,360
I mean, obviously you can overdo
it if you try, but it's very 

1082
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,120
difficult to eat too many 
bananas. 

1083
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,040
Like you just get a satiety 
mechanism kick in. 

1084
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,880
So me, eggs, fruit, vegetables. 
And then if people digest them 

1085
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,960
well, I think grains are fine. 
I mean, I wouldn't be eating a 

1086
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,880
huge amount of calories from 
grains because they're not as 

1087
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,160
micronutrient dense. 
But some high quality bread with

1088
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,320
some with some, you know, good 
quality butter on it, you know, 

1089
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,280
if that fits your diet plan or 
if that makes the meal more 

1090
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,040
enjoyable when it's home 
prepared, fantastic. 

1091
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,040
But meat, whole eggs should be 
the cornerstone of the diet. 

1092
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,800
I don't have any problem with 
dairy. 

1093
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,520
If the if the estrogen and dairy
is bioavailable, then so is the 

1094
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,080
testosterone and the growth 
hormone. 

1095
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,240
None of it is. 
But dairy is fantastic as well. 

1096
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:47,240
Full fat dairy. 
I mean, obviously you can overdo

1097
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:50,680
it from a caloric standpoint and
it's not very satiating, but I 

1098
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,440
don't think there's any problem 
with dairy either. 

1099
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:57,040
So I think that the diet can be 
a very rich and diverse diet, 

1100
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,800
but some people will do better 
with higher carbohydrates. 

1101
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,800
Some people do better with lower
carbohydrates. 

1102
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,440
I think that that comes down to 
how the individual performs from

1103
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,440
a metabolic level. 
And I think that some people can

1104
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,960
do great on a low carb diet and 
some people can do great on a 

1105
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,840
high carb diet. 
If they're going to do a high 

1106
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,400
carb diet that's low fat, they 
need to make sure they're eating

1107
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,200
nutrient dense fat sauces. 
Jiffy peanut butter is not 

1108
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,240
healthy fats. 
I see bodybuilders saying this 

1109
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:22,960
all the time. 
That's just so dumb. 

1110
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,200
But you can also get a full 
day's worth of micronutrients 

1111
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,240
from 4 egg yolks, which is like 
20 grams of fat. 

1112
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,760
So you don't have to have a huge
kind of fat to get 

1113
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,720
micronutrients. 
You know, seed oils are not 

1114
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:36,920
helping people's hormone 
production even though they're 

1115
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,800
fats. 
But you can also have a 

1116
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,440
relatively low amount of 
carbohydrates in the diet and be

1117
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,960
just fine, as long as those 
carbohydrates sources are 

1118
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,120
healthy and ideally have 
antioxidants and other nutrients

1119
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,360
in them as well. 
So there's a lot of ways people 

1120
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,440
can do nutrition, but starting 
out with the vertical diet or 

1121
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,520
Mike Dolce's approach to 
nutrition, I think is a 

1122
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,160
fantastic way to begin. 
Totally agree. 

1123
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,720
Do you go out of your way to eat
much like fish and seafood? 

1124
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:01,920
Cause like a lot of people are, 
you know, deficient in iodine, 

1125
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,320
things of that nature. 
I'm very big on the high dose of

1126
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:11,200
Amiga 3 supplement, so I use 4 
grams of EPADHA per day, which 

1127
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,880
is equivalent to eating about 
half a pound of salmon a day. 

1128
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,760
From a palatability standpoint, 
I don't like fatty fish very 

1129
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,120
much. 
I just don't have a taste for 

1130
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,040
salmon. 
In Australia, I love barramundi.

1131
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,280
Barramundi is wonderful. 
We got some really good mackerel

1132
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,360
in Australia. 
I have this rule that if you 

1133
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,200
can't see the ocean, you should 
question the seafood. 

1134
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,040
So growing up in Perth, WA, 
we're on the coast, amazing 

1135
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,680
seafood. 
I mean, oysters are a superfood 

1136
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,760
as well. 
Things like this are wonderful 

1137
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,840
for you over here in Lithuania 
getting good quality fish. 

1138
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,280
I'd be more concerned about the 
food poisoning. 

1139
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:54,000
So I don't eat very much fish, 
but I am a massive, massive 

1140
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,040
proponent and I push it very 
hard. 

1141
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,360
Is if you're not someone who 
eats a large amount of fatty 

1142
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,200
fish in the diet, you should 
definitely be getting a high 

1143
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:06,560
quality omega-3 supplement to 
bring the omega-3 index over a 

1144
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,880
tent. 
The, the, if we look, if you go 

1145
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,080
on pub Med and you search 
omega-3, there are 10s of 

1146
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:16,200
thousands of studies showing a 
positive impact of omega-3 

1147
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,320
supplementation on every single 
health condition known to Matt. 

1148
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,560
So, and the other thing that I 
see is that when I get guys come

1149
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,960
to me with their blood work, 
because I review about 20 or 30 

1150
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:26,920
client blood panels a day for my
clinics. 

1151
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,040
When I see guys who have these 
incredible lipid profiles, like 

1152
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,640
the lipid profiles that a 
cardiologist would print out and

1153
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,080
put on his fridge, every single 
one of them is taking a high 

1154
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,200
dose omega-3 supplement. 
Every single one. 

1155
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,360
So I very strongly recommend 
that people support their 

1156
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,360
omega-3 intake, whether it's 
through diet or supplementation.

1157
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,240
I just did a experiment, got 
blood work on both ends. 

1158
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,840
It was like a two week 
experiment, kind of like in 

1159
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,000
response to a lot of Mark Bell 
sugar diet stuff, doing the 

1160
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,360
opposite of it with high fat. 
But I doubled my testosterone in

1161
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,280
like a two week, three-week 
span. 

1162
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,360
And I started, you know, maybe 
because of the macronutrient 

1163
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,360
manipulation I was making super 
high fat, minimal protein, very 

1164
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:11,960
low carbs, but I also added in a
can of cod liver more often than

1165
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,800
not throughout that span. 
Super high in vitamin D Vitamin 

1166
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,120
AI. 
Would imagine that had a pretty 

1167
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,120
profound impact on hormone 
levels as well. 

1168
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,840
Cod liver is also a superfood. 
I mean, it's not for everyone's 

1169
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,440
palate as well. 
I mean, it's got a taste for 

1170
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,600
sure. 
But so you do a ketogenic diet. 

1171
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,800
Yeah, I've been doing keto for 
almost 11 years now. 

1172
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,440
Yeah. 
So the ketogenic diet, like it 

1173
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,520
has, I mean, you can do a 
garbage keto. 

1174
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,000
I mean, you can eat KFC and just
call it a ketogenic diet if you 

1175
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,000
want to. 
I mean, it would technically 

1176
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,600
still be one, but you can also 
do a ketogenic diet with 

1177
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,360
incredibly nutrient dense 
sources of fat. 

1178
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,440
And that's where I see people 
thriving. 

1179
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,000
I mean, I get guys come to me 
who are doing ketogenic diets 

1180
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,680
all the time and their blood 
work is absolutely garbage. 

1181
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,360
But when you ask them what they 
eat, they go, I eat keto. 

1182
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,240
I'm like, no, like, what do you 
actually, what foods do you 

1183
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:05,520
actually eat? 
And it's just crap. 

1184
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,520
But when you when you have guys 
come in who are doing a healthy 

1185
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,160
ketogenic diet and they're 
eating good quality fatty meats,

1186
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,000
sometimes they're eating some 
organ meats. 

1187
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,880
They've got things like avocado 
in there. 

1188
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:20,040
They've got really healthy 
nutrients and sources of fat. 

1189
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,360
And I have a bunch of guys who 
still follow something like Dave

1190
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,280
Asprey's Bulletproof diet, which
I guess is kind of like a keto 

1191
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,040
derivative spin off kind of 
thing. 

1192
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,920
But they're focusing on getting 
a large intake of fibrous 

1193
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,240
vegetables as well. 
Their blood work is like 

1194
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,800
incredible, like absolutely 
amazing. 

1195
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:40,280
And it's similar you. 
When I was talking to Mark Bell 

1196
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,840
when I was out there for his 
podcast, he kind of just started

1197
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,160
the sugar diet thing and he was 
explaining it to me and I was 

1198
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,280
like, oh, that just sounds like 
what Ori Hoffmechler was talking

1199
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,520
about in his book The warrior 
Diet, which basically spelled 

1200
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,120
out what they're now doing is 
the sugar diet, but exclusively 

1201
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,080
with fruit during the day, which
is obviously a healthier way to 

1202
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,360
do it than eating gummy bears 
because there's more nutrients 

1203
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,080
in the fruit. 
But just like you could be doing

1204
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,320
a high carb diet, you know, 
drinking nothing but Coca-Cola 

1205
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,960
or eating salvage kids or you do
a high carbohydrate diet, eating

1206
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,360
multiple servings of fresh 
organic fruit per day. 

1207
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,880
The macros are going to be the 
same, but the micros in the 

1208
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,000
inflammatory response to the 
food is going to be completely 

1209
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,200
different. 
So I can imagine that if you've 

1210
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,760
been doing a ketogenic diet long
term and you're thriving very 

1211
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,280
well, you would have also tuned 
into saying, hey, the quality of

1212
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,840
the fats that I'm eating. 
Like I used to teach, I used to 

1213
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,320
teach mindfulness meditation. 
That was my job before I did 

1214
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:32,760
this. 
I used to teach like science 

1215
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,360
based meditation. 
And one of the things that we 

1216
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,560
did, the organization I was at 
is we'd run like a community 

1217
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:42,320
based, like one hour guided 
leaded meditation that I do, you

1218
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,560
know, at a Community Center. 
And this was when I was doing 

1219
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,880
the ketogenic diet for a period.
And I remember one time before I

1220
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:53,760
went, I had a 12 egg omelette 
before I went, just the 12 egg 

1221
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,560
omelette. 
And I went and sat down and 

1222
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,360
meditated. 
And my mind had never been more 

1223
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,720
calm and steady and cool. 
And I was just sitting there 

1224
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:06,000
being like, this nutritional 
intake of cholesterol and all 

1225
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:10,600
the vitamins I've had, my brain 
is just completely thriving on 

1226
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,840
this. 
So I think, you know, just like 

1227
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,080
yourself, if you've been 
following a diet approach for 11

1228
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,880
years, it's because you've been 
like, hey, this works for me. 

1229
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:22,080
I'm doing really well on this. 
And I think one of the problems 

1230
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,440
is that people have just been 
eating for taste their whole 

1231
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,400
life. 
They haven't eaten well for long

1232
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:31,400
enough to then veer off it and 
realize how crappy that food 

1233
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,400
makes them feel. 
Yeah, 100% agree, man. 

1234
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,920
Pivoting back to TRT 
specifically. 

1235
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,000
So like I I compete in natural 
bodybuilding. 

1236
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,480
So like it's pretty much totally
banned, outlawed, all that jazz.

1237
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,760
However, you know, we've learned
so much, especially in the last 

1238
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,680
decade around, you know, 
hormonal impacts, endocrine 

1239
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,280
system, longevity, health, 
well-being, all that all that 

1240
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,960
good stuff. 
Is there, like, is there ever an

1241
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,520
instance where you know someone 
just not a good fit for TRT? 

1242
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,640
Like if you're looking at it 
from a performance standpoint? 

1243
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:06,920
Like This is why professional 
bodybuilders competing on the 

1244
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,200
IFBB stage take steroids. 
Like it's obvious they got a 

1245
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,400
performance benefit. 
But I guess the question is, 

1246
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,640
what would be a use case in 
which they would not be optimal?

1247
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:18,920
It could be detrimental. 
What would be the point of 

1248
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,520
diminishing returns for someone 
that's trying to optimize? 

1249
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,040
Look like I just kind of flesh 
that out a little bit if you 

1250
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:25,120
would. 
Yeah. 

1251
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:30,640
So this is a, and this is 
something that I actually teach 

1252
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,600
a lot of. 
So when I come to the States and

1253
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,520
I'm running seminars for either 
at the Super Back Summit or the 

1254
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:39,200
Olympia or for clinics that I'm 
parted with, one of the things 

1255
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,400
that I teach in terms of how to 
work with these patients is that

1256
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,320
one of the problems is that now 
that TRT and I don't want to say

1257
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,160
it's a problem. 
One of the caveats to TRT 

1258
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,840
becoming more mainstream is that
a hot like back when I started 

1259
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,720
doing this five or six years 
ago, the only people who were 

1260
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,920
coming to me for consults on TRT
were like health and fitness 

1261
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,320
enthusiasts, because it wasn't a
mainstream thing. 

1262
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,600
There was no YouTube channels 
about it. 

1263
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,920
There was no Joe Rogan talking 
about it. 

1264
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,840
I mean, people would ask me 
like, what the hell is TRT? 

1265
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,560
Like, they had no idea. 
Whereas now when I tell people 

1266
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,400
what I do, everyone knows what 
TRT is. 

1267
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,720
Everyone wants to ask about it, 
and one of the downsides of that

1268
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,840
is that a lot of the time people
who come in wanting TRT 

1269
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:25,440
treatment, what my friend Jay 
Campbell affectionately refers 

1270
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:30,680
to as metabolic dumpster fires. 
And this is a real problem 

1271
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:34,080
because these guys have often 
destroyed the endocrine system 

1272
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,760
from years or decades of poor 
health practices, and they want 

1273
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,040
to get back on track. 
But their body is just so 

1274
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:45,320
screwed up that if they take TRT
in the way it's traditionally 

1275
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,880
prescribed, their blood pressure
will go through the roof and 

1276
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,520
they'll be riddled with side 
effects that people typically 

1277
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,760
call estrogenic side effects. 
So they can get things like gyno

1278
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,040
water retention. 
Their face swells up. 

1279
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,480
They start crying when they 
watch a Marvel movie. 

1280
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,920
All the stuff that you don't 
really want when you're taking, 

1281
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:04,880
you know, exogenous 
testosterone, you're having a 

1282
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:06,680
whole bunch of the side effects 
and all the good stuff. 

1283
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,000
The problem is, though, that 
these men need the treatment. 

1284
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,560
And there's two ways that we 
have to work with this. 

1285
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,440
So 1 is that there's this saying
I was taught by a mentor of 

1286
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,320
mine, which is that in all 
aspects of improving health, 

1287
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,800
whether it's mental health or 
physical health, you have to 

1288
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,880
meet the medicine halfway. 
So if you want to become a 

1289
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,880
better driver, if you buy 
yourself a better car, that's 

1290
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,080
not going to fix the problem in 
and of itself. 

1291
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:34,920
You also have to get the driving
lessons. 

1292
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:36,800
You have to meet the medicine 
halfway. 

1293
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:40,080
So a lot of the time when people
take an antidepressant or they 

1294
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,720
take a stimulant or they take a 
sleeping pill, they just expect 

1295
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,200
the drug to solve the problem. 
They're not actually trying to 

1296
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:51,680
work with the drug to allow the 
drug to give them the foundation

1297
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,520
to help them change their 
circumstance. 

1298
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,280
This is how medical 
interventions are supposed to 

1299
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,200
work. 
So the first thing that we have 

1300
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,680
to look at if someone comes in 
who TRT would be a 

1301
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:04,160
contraindication for, which 
people who are generally insulin

1302
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,680
resistant, have liver disease or
have basically metabolic 

1303
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:09,080
syndrome, meaning they're 
overweight. 

1304
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:13,880
These guys need TRT, but they're
also going to get side effects 

1305
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,360
from TRT. 
So it's a real catch 22. 

1306
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,680
So typically a practitioner will
either prescribe them an 

1307
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,680
estrogen blocker, which will 
solve one problem and create two

1308
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,920
more, or they'll tell them that 
the side effects are all in 

1309
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,840
their head and there's nothing 
that can be done to fix it. 

1310
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:30,200
Both of these problems are 
wrong. 

1311
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:34,560
So not only do we have to start 
working with guys in terms of 

1312
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,560
fixing their habits, which is 
often a bit of a progress, we 

1313
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,080
have to go, OK, what do we start
with? 

1314
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,480
And the way that I like people 
to look at that, which again, 

1315
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,240
this doesn't apply for everyone,
but it applies for most people, 

1316
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,280
is you can make a list of all 
the things you're doing that you

1317
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,320
know you shouldn't be doing. 
And then you can make a list of 

1318
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,120
all the things that you're not 
doing that you know that you're 

1319
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,600
supposed to be doing. 
Fix that shit and fix it 

1320
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,920
gradually. 
Find the easiest things to fix, 

1321
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:03,040
but fix that equation. 
But the other thing is that we 

1322
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,640
can look at the delivery 
mechanism of testosterone. 

1323
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:07,760
So typically when we look at 
TRT, we're looking at 

1324
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,080
injectables. 
So testosterone cypionate, 

1325
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:13,440
testosterone ananthate, These 
are basically Coke and Pepsi. 

1326
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,880
They're basically the same 
thing, slightly different, but 

1327
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,680
they're interchangeable. 
Now, when this stuff is 

1328
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,840
prescribed, the little handbook 
that the doctors get in medical 

1329
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:26,560
school says 1 injection of one 
mil, which is 200 or 250 

1330
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,760
milligrams every two to three 
weeks. 

1331
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,520
This is a train wreck because 
even if you're healthy, it'll 

1332
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,240
Jack your levels through the sky
for a few days and then they'll 

1333
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,520
crash out and they'll be 
terrible by the time you do your

1334
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,080
next injection. 
Men do not do well with a 

1335
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,760
hormonal rhythm over the course 
of weeks. 

1336
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,800
We're meant to have flatline 
stable hormone levels every day.

1337
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,320
So what this does is it 
basically gives men a similar 

1338
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,560
hormone rhythm to women on their
periods. 

1339
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:57,920
This is not good for anyone. 
So when it comes to using 

1340
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:02,320
injectables, the problem that we
have is that if someone is 

1341
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,800
insulin resistant or they're 
overweight or they have issues 

1342
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,640
with their liver or they have 
all three of these problems, 

1343
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,960
they will typically produce less
5A reductase, which is what 

1344
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,840
makes DHT and they'll produce 
more aromatase, which is what 

1345
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,439
creates estrogen. 
Now this is not necessarily a 

1346
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,319
problem because the body is 
trying to protect itself. 

1347
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:27,279
Estrogen's anti-inflammatory. 
But then when you come in and 

1348
01:08:27,279 --> 01:08:32,520
Jack the levels up, the body is 
not in an environment in which 

1349
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:34,760
it would ever be making these 
hormone levels. 

1350
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,520
So you've just taken a Ferrari 
engine and you put it into a 

1351
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,040
beat up Suzuki Swift and you're 
wondering why it's not working 

1352
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,720
properly and you're saying, 
well, if I take the Ferrari 

1353
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,520
engine, it's going to turn my 
Suzuki Swift into a Ferrari? 

1354
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:49,120
No, it's not. 
Doesn't work like that. 

1355
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,479
But what we can do for people 
who are metabolically unhealthy 

1356
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:56,640
is give them testosterone in the
form of a cream. 

1357
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,960
Now, the typical creams and gels
that people are usually familiar

1358
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,200
with, which have a bad rap are 
garbage. 

1359
01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:06,600
Test the gel androforte. 
These are the brands that people

1360
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,600
get from the pharmacy. 
These creams are so weak and 

1361
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,640
have no bioavailability. 
You'd basically have to take a 

1362
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,640
bath in it for it to work. 
But when you work with a 

1363
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,560
provider who's skilled in this 
kind of application, you can 

1364
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:24,000
have a 20% cream made-up in 
what's called a HRT base, which 

1365
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,000
is made of olive oil and 
macadamia oil. 

1366
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:27,600
So it's a really natural healthy
cream. 

1367
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:30,520
It's like a moisturizer. 
And you get about the amount of 

1368
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,960
cream that you'd put toothpaste 
on a toothbrush. 

1369
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,640
So it's a relatively small 
amount of like a moisturizer. 

1370
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,880
And you apply it to the 
underside of the ball sack 

1371
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:43,399
because the skin on the scrotum 
is very thin and it has a large 

1372
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:47,800
presence of the enzyme 5A 
reductants, which is reduced 

1373
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,240
when the individual is 
chronically inflamed. 

1374
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,680
So when they take testosterone 
by rubbing it on their shaved 

1375
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,440
bowl SAC twice a day instead of 
injecting it, what we're able to

1376
01:09:57,440 --> 01:10:01,920
do is more so mimic the way that
the testosterone would be 

1377
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:06,480
metabolized by a healthy mat, 
which allows them to feel that 

1378
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:11,880
motivation, that uplift, that 
energy effect, that kind of 

1379
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:16,680
androgenic masculinizing effect.
And they don't get any of the 

1380
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,280
side effects that we typically 
see from injections. 

1381
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:23,920
So it allows them to tolerate 
the testosterone without the 

1382
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:28,120
side effects that would be 
caused by the contraindication 

1383
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:31,480
of being overweight, obese, 
insulin resistant, or having 

1384
01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:34,840
fatty liver. 
So it's not so much that these 

1385
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:39,360
individuals can't or shouldn't 
do TRT, it's that it needs to be

1386
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:43,200
done in a way that's catered 
towards them being metabolically

1387
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:45,760
unhealthy. 
And then augmenting that 

1388
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:49,120
treatment with something like 
metformin to improve insulin 

1389
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,920
sensitivity or, you know, 
improving the diet would be 

1390
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:53,600
better. 
But you know, compliance is the 

1391
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,160
science. 
So things like metformin can be 

1392
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,080
very helpful, Melatonin to help 
with sleep as well. 

1393
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:02,360
Things like glutathione as well 
to help with antioxidant 

1394
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:04,280
production. 
All of these things can be very 

1395
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:08,000
helpful to augment it to allow 
people to benefit from the 

1396
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,840
treatment without having the 
potential side effects. 

1397
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,600
But if you take someone who's 
unhealthy and overweight and 

1398
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,520
give them a big dose of 
injectable testosterone, you 

1399
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,880
could be creating more problems 
than you're solving. 

1400
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,640
And I haven't heard many people 
with that application modality. 

1401
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:25,240
I'm out. 
I hear like the horror stories 

1402
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:28,000
of people walking to a clinic, 
getting prescribed testosterone,

1403
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:32,800
not getting follow up lab panels
for like 6 months or ever and 

1404
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:36,520
then having that, you know, 
injectable dose and then doing 

1405
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:37,760
that every two weeks or 
something. 

1406
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,400
I've heard a lot more people 
having a reduced dose, but 

1407
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,320
scattered throughout the week, 
like a, you know, Tuesday, 

1408
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:45,960
Friday split or something like 
that. 

1409
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,160
I'm sure that's better. 
But I haven't heard many people 

1410
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:51,400
with the the cream on the 
scrotum, so that makes that 

1411
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:56,080
makes more sense. 
Yeah, so for me personally, so 

1412
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:58,480
I've, I've been blessed that 
I've had some really amazing 

1413
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:00,880
mentors and, and colleagues 
since I got into the space, 

1414
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,320
which I'm, I'm very humbled by, 
is not being a medical doctor. 

1415
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,240
So friends of mine, doctor Keith
Nichols has been a big advocate 

1416
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,720
of the cream. 
My friend Jay Campbell, who you 

1417
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:12,920
should definitely have on the, 
the podcast, He, he's super into

1418
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:15,600
all the dieting and he's gotten 
into the sugar diet stuff as 

1419
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,960
well. 
Fantastic guy to talk to about 

1420
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:23,080
this, but what they really have 
been teaching for longer than 

1421
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:27,840
I've been teaching it is that 
inflammation is what's driving 

1422
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,440
the side effects that guys are 
getting on TRT. 

1423
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:36,760
And when we look at the cream 
option, the cream option 

1424
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,960
metabolizes very different in 
the body to injections. 

1425
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:44,160
And when we can find a pathway 
that complements people who 

1426
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,000
would usually be getting the 
side effects, this is a real 

1427
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,160
game changer. 
Now a lot of people refer just 

1428
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:52,120
being on the cream to injections
because they find that they get 

1429
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:56,840
more of that DHT based effect 
and they feel the benefit of the

1430
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,320
treatment more. 
So with the clinics that I work 

1431
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,240
with, we actually offer both so 
that people can choose between 

1432
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,320
the two. 
But when it comes to doing 

1433
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:09,480
injections twice a week, shots 
is the minimum that anyone 

1434
01:13:09,480 --> 01:13:12,400
should be doing. 
But the more often you split 

1435
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:14,960
that up, the better. 
So if people are doing 

1436
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,680
injectable testosterone and 
they're going, what's the best, 

1437
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:19,680
most optimal way that I can do 
this? 

1438
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,240
It's injected every day. 
If people want to find the sweet

1439
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,560
spot between how can I do the 
least amount of injections 

1440
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,560
possible but still get like a 
Goldilocks zone, it's three days

1441
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,840
a week or every other day. 
The minimal amount is twice a 

1442
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,280
week. 
The problem that people have 

1443
01:13:36,440 --> 01:13:39,360
when they're looking at what's 
called pharmacodynamics, which 

1444
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,840
is basically how drugs 
metabolize in the body, is they 

1445
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:44,560
look at what's called the half 
life. 

1446
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:48,560
So testosterone injections and 
Anthony Incipienate, depending 

1447
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:52,520
on the study report to have a 
half life of seven to 10 days. 

1448
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,880
So we'll say about a week. 
Now if we use caffeine as an 

1449
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:58,680
example, caffeine got 1/2 flight
of eight hours. 

1450
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,360
It doesn't gradually build up 
and peak its four and then drop 

1451
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:06,080
off for the rest of the 8. 
You get a pronounced peak in 30 

1452
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,920
to 90 minutes depending on the 
individual and then you get a 

1453
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,080
drop off. 
But the main effect of the 

1454
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:14,760
caffeine that you can 
subjectively feel is not evenly 

1455
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:18,040
distributed over 8 hours. 
Everyone knows that the side 

1456
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,600
effect of keeping you awake is 
distributed evenly, but not the 

1457
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,200
effect that we're looking for. 
So when we look at a 

1458
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:27,840
testosterone injection, even 
though it's got a one week half 

1459
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,920
life, it peaks between 24 and 36
hours. 

1460
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,120
In some people it peaks out for 
12 hours. 

1461
01:14:33,480 --> 01:14:36,760
So if you're not injecting 
daily, you're going to be 

1462
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:40,320
getting some degree of 
fluctuating levels and the 

1463
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:44,160
amount of fluctuation that 
someone will tolerate seems to 

1464
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:46,280
be individual. 
But from an objective 

1465
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:50,360
standpoint, when we're looking 
at dosing medications like 

1466
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:54,560
pharmaceuticals, the idea is 
typically to keep a therapeutic 

1467
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:56,080
amount of the drug in your 
system. 

1468
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:59,680
So if you take something that's 
got like a, if you take like a 

1469
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:02,680
blood pressure medication, for 
example, if you take that once a

1470
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:06,600
day, it will still have a peak 
and a through, but the level 

1471
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:10,280
when you redose it will be above
what's called the therapeutic 

1472
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:12,520
floor. 
So it won't be completely out of

1473
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,720
your system. 
If you apply that same logic to 

1474
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:19,160
hormone levels, you're basically
saying, well, we can have a big 

1475
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:22,120
excursion of these hormone 
levels and that's still fine 

1476
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:26,760
because it's not going to 0. 
That doesn't make sense from an 

1477
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,400
optimizing hormone standpoint. 
It makes sense from a 

1478
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:32,320
pharmaceutical standpoint, not 
from an optimizing hormone 

1479
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:34,560
standpoint. 
So if we want to have stability,

1480
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,560
just like, you know, if you 
wanted to keep your peak 

1481
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:42,320
caffeinated dose, you'd sip on 
coffee all day, you'd redose it 

1482
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,440
at the peak to maintain a stable
level. 

1483
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:49,200
So if we want to maintain stable
androgen levels, we should 

1484
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,640
redose it at the peak, not at 
the half line. 

1485
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,280
So every day is best if people 
are willing to do it. 

1486
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,480
A really small insulin syringe 
you can just inject into the 

1487
01:15:58,480 --> 01:16:00,680
delt. 
And if people want to find an 

1488
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:03,920
acceptable Goldilocks zone to 
still get an optimal result, 

1489
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:07,400
three days a week or month or 
every other day works well. 

1490
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,920
But twice a week is the minimum 
that anyone could do. 

1491
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:14,720
But when people are obese and 
have these health problems, even

1492
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,160
doing 3 * a week injections, 
they're still going to get the 

1493
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,120
side effects. 
Yeah, makes sense. 

1494
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:23,440
What what can one expect? 
Like if they decide to go the 

1495
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:27,560
route of TRT, what can they 
expect to happen to their 

1496
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,080
endogenous production, whether 
it be from the injectables or 

1497
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:33,520
the cream? 
It will vanish. 

1498
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:39,240
So the way that unfortunately, 
if it didn't work like that, I'd

1499
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:41,280
just be saying everyone should 
try testosterone. 

1500
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,960
I mean, that'd be everyone 
should give it a shot, but 

1501
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,560
because of the down regulation 
of natural production, that's 

1502
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,800
why it's a commitment. 
Otherwise it would be a very 

1503
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:54,880
different industry. 
So when you take exogenous 

1504
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:58,520
testosterone, whether it's a 
cream or a shot or a small dose 

1505
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:02,800
or a massive steroid dose, your 
body will have what's called a 

1506
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:07,280
negative feedback reaction. 
So when testosterone circulates 

1507
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:10,360
and activates receptors in the 
hypothalamus, which is a part of

1508
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,760
the brain, and when those 
receptors get saturated, the 

1509
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:17,560
body goes, OK, there's plenty of
testosterone here, we don't need

1510
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:20,320
to make any more. 
Whereas if the body is naturally

1511
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:22,920
producing it and the levels dip 
down, then you get a signal to 

1512
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:25,120
make more and the body maintains
its balance. 

1513
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,640
But when you're taking 
externally, the body goes up, 

1514
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:30,520
job's done, I don't need to do 
this anymore. 

1515
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,760
So the signal from the 
hypothalamus to the testicles, 

1516
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:37,480
which is called luteinizing 
hormone, this basically goes to 

1517
01:17:37,480 --> 01:17:40,640
0. 
So as a result, the testicles 

1518
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,880
basically go offline. 
So they basically deflate like 

1519
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,800
balloons and they kind of shrink
down to the size of about 

1520
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:48,880
olives. 
They revert to a similar child 

1521
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,000
that they were when similar size
to when you were a child. 

1522
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:56,160
And the testicles go offline 
because the main function of 

1523
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:58,760
secreting hormones is already 
taken care of. 

1524
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,120
So this is the big catch 22 of 
TLT. 

1525
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:07,880
And when you start the 
treatment, the the question is, 

1526
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:11,400
well, can you trial it for like 
12 weeks or 16 weeks and then 

1527
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:12,760
have your natural production 
come back? 

1528
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:18,640
And this is a tricky question to
answer because there's not a 

1529
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:22,240
100% guarantee to something that
people are looking for a 

1530
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:27,200
guaranteed reassurance on. 
So if someone like myself stops 

1531
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:30,760
taking testosterone after almost
a decade, my natural production 

1532
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:32,520
is going to be virtually non 
existent. 

1533
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:37,640
But the reason that I did TRT 
was that my natural production 

1534
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:41,400
was inadequate in the 1st place.
So basically, if I haven't a 

1535
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:45,440
company and my company is only 
performing as well as the 

1536
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:48,640
weakest link and I fire the 
weakest link to do their job 

1537
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:53,080
myself, I can now do that job at
a fantastic capacity, but I've 

1538
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:56,160
taken on the responsibility to 
do that job for the rest of the 

1539
01:18:56,160 --> 01:19:00,160
life of the company. 
That is a decision that I made 

1540
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:04,040
because I was like, I can't 
train this guy up to perform at 

1541
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:05,840
the level that he needs to 
perform at. 

1542
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:10,200
And that's why when someone goes
on TRT, it should only be done 

1543
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:13,640
in a situation where you're 
saying my natural production is 

1544
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:18,840
so garbage that even if I like, 
there's no reason why this would

1545
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:22,400
serve me any more. 
And I'm OK with getting rid of 

1546
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:25,800
it and taking on the 
responsibility of replacing that

1547
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,800
production. 
So it's like a great power, 

1548
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,280
great responsibility, spider man
kind of scenario. 

1549
01:19:31,480 --> 01:19:33,960
It's not ideal. 
It's absolutely not ideal. 

1550
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:37,480
It's one of the reasons why TRT 
is a flawed intervention. 

1551
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,360
It has way more benefits than 
downsides. 

1552
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,760
But the big downside is that 
once you start the treatment, 

1553
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,840
you are dependent. 
And if people do come off within

1554
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,800
the first few months, all the 
literature shows that they will 

1555
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,480
recover their natural 
production, and in my experience

1556
01:19:53,480 --> 01:19:55,960
they do. 
But there would always be a 

1557
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:59,080
potential theoretical risk, 
especially if people are using 

1558
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,800
anabolic steroids, that that 
testosterone production may come

1559
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,080
back lower than it was before 
they started. 

1560
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,120
So people should only do it if 
they're comfortable with that 

1561
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:11,480
shit potentially sailing. 
OK, that makes sense. 

1562
01:20:11,480 --> 01:20:13,200
So it's pretty much a commitment
all in. 

1563
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:16,120
No, no pussyfooting around it. 
Like if you're gonna get on it, 

1564
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,240
you can just plan on staying on 
it until death do you part, 

1565
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:21,680
basically. 
You will have to pry it out of 

1566
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,480
my cold, dead hands. 
Absolutely. 

1567
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:27,520
Yeah. 
What about like going the other 

1568
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,440
extreme, like with the 
bodybuilders, for example, that 

1569
01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:32,240
are using performance Henson 
drugs, anabolics like they're 

1570
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:33,920
doing like blasting and 
cruising. 

1571
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:38,600
You know, 20 years ago there was
talk of like them cycling off to

1572
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:40,600
let their natural production 
come back into place. 

1573
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:41,800
You don't really hear about that
anymore. 

1574
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:46,000
People are just always on some 
dosage and blasting and cruising

1575
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,720
is more so just continual 
blasting. 

1576
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:50,280
That's not my of expertise at 
all, but what's typically 

1577
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:55,360
happening in those scenarios? 
Yeah, so the the way that 

1578
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:59,080
bodybuilders do stuff is 
ridiculous. 

1579
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:06,840
People will blast so much gear 
for such a short space of time 

1580
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:10,480
that they will completely burden
and destroy the health of their 

1581
01:21:10,480 --> 01:21:13,840
organs. 
And you can't accrue that much 

1582
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,840
muscle tissue in that window of 
time. 

1583
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:19,120
It's just not physiologically 
possible. 

1584
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:22,680
You'll inflate with glycogen and
you'll have a more drive full 

1585
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,200
appearance because your muscles 
will be more swollen. 

1586
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:31,400
But taking grams of gear for 16 
weeks and then cycling back to 

1587
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:34,960
low levels to think you're 
repairing that damage, that is 

1588
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,640
not how it works. 
Like that is naivety. 

1589
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,760
That is wishful thinking. 
That is playing with fire. 

1590
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,600
It it would be like me punching 
someone in the face Monday 

1591
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,680
through Friday and then not 
punching them in the face 

1592
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,760
Saturday and Sunday and 
expecting it to be healed by 

1593
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:50,160
Monday. 
It's like, no, it's not going to

1594
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:54,400
work. 
So it's people shouldn't be 

1595
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:57,720
doing that for a number of 
reasons, but the stopping and 

1596
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:01,440
starting of the natural 
production is one of the reasons

1597
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:04,440
why guys end up coming to 
clinics like mine needing 

1598
01:22:04,440 --> 01:22:07,600
hormone replacement much younger
than they typically would. 

1599
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:11,200
Because and especially when they
do it under the age of 25, 

1600
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:14,520
because the endocrine system 
hasn't finished developing, when

1601
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:18,560
we stop and start the system, 
especially using high drugs of 

1602
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:22,400
these, sorry, high doses of 
these non bioidentical anabolic 

1603
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:27,440
steroid drugs, it seems to 
permanently damage some degree 

1604
01:22:27,440 --> 01:22:30,000
of the natural production. 
So if you do one cycle, like a 

1605
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:34,480
big cycle and you do the post 
cycle therapy, you take the HCG 

1606
01:22:34,480 --> 01:22:37,760
and the tamoxifen that everyone 
recommends that you do, even 

1607
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:39,480
though that stuff is terrible 
for your health. 

1608
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:42,520
You will recover your natural 
production, but you might only 

1609
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:45,240
recover it to here. 
And then if you do it again, you

1610
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:48,560
might only recover it to here. 
And then the problem is if 

1611
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:52,600
you're blasting it, you know, a 
gram or two of gear for 12 to 16

1612
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:56,600
weeks, but then you're spending 
12 to 16 weeks with crashed out 

1613
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:00,720
hypogonadal testosterone levels.
This is why people lose the 

1614
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:04,160
muscle that they gain on cycle. 
It's not because the steroids 

1615
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,000
went away. 
It's because the baseline level 

1616
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,200
they went back down to was so 
low that they entered A 

1617
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,040
catabolic state and they feel 
like garbage. 

1618
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,680
And then they just want to get 
back on cycle again because they

1619
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:17,840
feel better. 
So the way that people should be

1620
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:21,320
looking at it, if they want to 
do this, like my approach is, 

1621
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,640
and I I interviewed a, a guy 
named Doctor Todd Lee the other 

1622
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:29,680
day in a relation who's big IFBB
pro guy, medical Doctor Who 

1623
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:32,440
talks about steroid use in 
pharmacology. 

1624
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:34,960
And he has the same 
recommendation as me, which is 

1625
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,400
that unless you are a 
professional bodybuilder who 

1626
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,600
requires steroids to compete in 
your sport, you shouldn't be 

1627
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,880
using anabolic steroids. 
But for the people who do choose

1628
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:48,200
to go down that route, you want 
to be really careful with this 

1629
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:52,960
idea of like perma blasting gear
because when you go, basically 

1630
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:57,320
testosterone is good for you up 
until the point that it's not. 

1631
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:02,280
And when you pass that 
physiological ceiling into this 

1632
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:06,760
super physiological territory 
and beyond, you are causing a 

1633
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,960
burden and damage to your 
organs, more or less. 

1634
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,080
So depending on the compounds 
you're using, how good your 

1635
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:16,760
cardiovascular fitness is, how 
good your, how good your 

1636
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:19,600
nutrition is, how good your 
supplemental support is, whether

1637
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:21,880
you're managing your blood 
pressure, all this kind of 

1638
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,320
stuff. 
And people have this idea and 

1639
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,920
they go, oh, I'm just going to 
blast steroids until I get a 

1640
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:30,720
problem in my blood work. 
And then I'm going to stop 

1641
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,720
taking the steroids until the 
problem in the blood work goes 

1642
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:35,320
away and then I'm going to do it
again. 

1643
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:39,720
This is a terrible idea because 
you're not getting things like 

1644
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:41,960
organ imaging done. 
You're not really seeing the 

1645
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:46,440
full picture and the individual 
bodybuilder or the bodybuilding 

1646
01:24:46,440 --> 01:24:50,520
coach is not really able to look
at the right blood markers and 

1647
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:52,760
determine if damage has actually
been done. 

1648
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:56,440
But if people are going to be 
cycling and using anabolic 

1649
01:24:56,440 --> 01:25:01,440
steroids, they are much better 
off staying on TRT in between 

1650
01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:04,760
the steroid cycle use. 
And if people do want to use 

1651
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:09,360
steroids, the first thing they 
should do is find what that 

1652
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:13,760
optimized TRT dose is, because 
if this is an optimal level of 

1653
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:17,000
testosterone for you, like this 
is an optimized TRT dose. 

1654
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,880
What I see people doing is they 
blast up here and they cruise 

1655
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:24,160
down here and they think that if
they cruise lower, they'll 

1656
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:26,560
offset the damage that they did 
from running higher. 

1657
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:30,640
This is just nonsense. 
So if people want to actually 

1658
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:35,400
use steroids, they should find 
their optimal TRT dose and then 

1659
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:38,600
add steroids on top of that in a
minimal effective dose for 

1660
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,080
whatever time frame they're 
going to do it. 

1661
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:42,920
And then when they stop using 
steroids, they should come back 

1662
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:46,440
to their TRT dose and just 
accept that if this is the 

1663
01:25:46,440 --> 01:25:48,640
lifestyle and what they want to 
do with their body because 

1664
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,680
people can do what they like, 
they should make the commitment 

1665
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:55,200
to at least stay on hormone 
replacement therapy rather than 

1666
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,520
doing this stop stop. 
See Salt garbage. 

1667
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:02,280
Totally agree, and just out of 
curiosity, say you would define 

1668
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:05,240
the difference or you would 
differentiate steroids and TRT 

1669
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:09,920
being that TRT is optimal, you 
know physiological compatible 

1670
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:13,800
levels whereas steroids are just
super physiological beyond what 

1671
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:15,720
would be capable in any natural 
realm. 

1672
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:18,400
Yeah. 
So there's two factors to it. 

1673
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:23,240
The way that I would describe 
TRT, and I would kind of borrow 

1674
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:26,560
Jay Campbell's term in terms of 
testosterone optimization 

1675
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:30,120
therapy, which is we're not just
replacing the testosterone 

1676
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,000
level, we're taking it to the 
optimal level that it should be 

1677
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:35,600
at. 
So TRTTOT, whatever people want 

1678
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:39,280
to call it, but it's using 
bioidentical test testosterone 

1679
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:42,680
at the physiological level that 
promotes health. 

1680
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:45,920
And the problem that people have
is that the physiological 

1681
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:48,840
healthy level is often above the
reference range. 

1682
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:53,200
So people often conflate 
physiological with the reference

1683
01:26:53,200 --> 01:26:54,320
range. 
This is wrong. 

1684
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,720
There is a level above the 
reference range which is still 

1685
01:26:57,720 --> 01:26:59,320
physiological and health 
promoting. 

1686
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:03,200
But when you go beyond that and 
you're in super physiological 

1687
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:06,480
territory, this would be a 
steroid cycle. 

1688
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:10,800
Now you can do a testosterone 
only steroid cycle. 

1689
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:13,400
It will typically produce side 
effects because of the 

1690
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:15,960
aromatization to estrogen when 
you go into a super 

1691
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:19,560
physiological level. 
But you can do a bioidentical 

1692
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,720
steroid cycle if you want to. 
But typically when we're looking

1693
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:26,600
at a steroid cycle, we're 
looking at using non 

1694
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,560
bioidentical analogs of these 
hormones. 

1695
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:34,560
So compounds like Primobolan, 
masteron, Anavar, nandrolone, 

1696
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:37,880
trampolone, there's a variety of
them, but we're typically 

1697
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:42,200
looking at increasing the 
antigen load beyond the physical

1698
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:47,320
range with hormones that are not
bioidentical, that have been 

1699
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:51,000
specifically designed to have 
more anabolic activity in the 

1700
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,160
body. 
Makes total sense. 

1701
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:55,240
I can talk to you for hours, 
man. 

1702
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:57,480
It's super interesting. 
I got one more question. 

1703
01:27:57,480 --> 01:27:59,120
We're already way past the hour 
mark here. 

1704
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:02,640
It's kind of selfish question. 
So I'm natural bodybuilding, 

1705
01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:06,600
never taken anything. 
I'm a bit of a purist in nature.

1706
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:09,320
Like, I'm super rich with my 
nutrition, my lifestyle factors,

1707
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:11,400
optimizing everything that's 
within my grasp. 

1708
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:15,640
I recognize with the technology 
and science that we have that I 

1709
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:20,440
could perform more optimally 
with exogenous testosterone, 

1710
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:22,800
especially since I've got 
naturally lower levels. 

1711
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:27,040
But at the same time, like I've 
got this, you know, purest 

1712
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:29,680
traditional sense to me of like,
hey, look, humans have been 

1713
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:31,720
around for a long time. 
We've never had this until 

1714
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:34,320
recently. 
You know, we can't live forever 

1715
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:36,680
despite all the longevity 
experts promoting otherwise. 

1716
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:39,880
Like, you know, death and decay 
is just a part of life as much 

1717
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:43,520
as being born is. 
And I want to be at peace and 

1718
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:45,240
embrace that reality, in fact, 
too. 

1719
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:48,320
And I'm going to fight Father 
Time as best I can naturally for

1720
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:50,880
as long as I can because I'd 
still like to compete in the 

1721
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:53,360
natural bodybuilding realms for 
as long as I can. 

1722
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:57,600
But and we don't have a crystal 
ball, but out of curiosity, as I

1723
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:01,280
get older and older, how much 
knowing what you've seen in your

1724
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:04,120
clients, would you think I'd be 
leaving on the table and 

1725
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:07,840
suffering and seeing a decline 
in health if I were to stay 

1726
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,920
natural versus going the route 
of TOT? 

1727
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:15,560
Yeah, I have a very similar 
paradigm to yourself. 

1728
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:18,480
I don't like pharmaceuticals. 
I don't like. 

1729
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:22,520
I mean I will recommend them 
when they are advantageous, when

1730
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:24,840
the risk to reward ratio is in 
favor of reward. 

1731
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:28,320
And the reason why I like 
hormone replacement therapy is 

1732
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,760
that I think it is correcting a 
natural imbalance. 

1733
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:36,440
So I can't argue that TRT is 
more natural than not taking it,

1734
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:41,200
but I do make the argument that 
optimal testosterone levels is 

1735
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:43,920
the correct state for the male 
biology to thrive in. 

1736
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:46,080
And that's, you know, based on 
my experience personally and 

1737
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,440
with clients. 
But with that said, I also don't

1738
01:29:48,440 --> 01:29:50,800
push people down the route of 
TRTA lot of the time I told 

1739
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:53,040
people out of it and I often 
choke with my clients. 

1740
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:56,000
I say, look, it's more work for 
me if you actually do the TRT. 

1741
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,160
So I don't have a stake in the 
game. 

1742
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:03,560
When people are aware of TRT, it
becomes a matter of when, not 

1743
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:06,760
if. 
If it's on your radar by 60 

1744
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:11,560
years old, you would absolutely 
be trading benefits for not 

1745
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:15,960
doing absolutely. 
And by 70 years old, absolutely,

1746
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:19,080
it would be almost stupid not to
do it. 

1747
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,360
And it's, it's kind of similar 
with women who are menopausal 

1748
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:26,840
with when menopausal women are 
suffering severely from a 

1749
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,080
complete lack of hormones in 
their body. 

1750
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:31,800
And they're aware of the 
benefits of hormone replacement 

1751
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,120
therapy. 
And they trial using a bit of 

1752
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,480
progesterone or a bit of thyroid
or whatever they need as part of

1753
01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:41,240
their their requirements. 
Because it's part of your body's

1754
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:44,080
natural operating system. 
It doesn't feel like you've 

1755
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:46,400
taken a drug, you just feel more
like yourself. 

1756
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:51,160
So if we're looking at that kind
of linear decline in levels, the

1757
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:54,440
problem with the male situation 
is because we don't have like a 

1758
01:30:54,440 --> 01:30:56,920
menopause event where you kind 
of drop off a Cliff. 

1759
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:00,440
Basically you have this slow, 
insidious decline over the 

1760
01:31:00,440 --> 01:31:03,800
course of years where you kind 
of have to reach a point and go,

1761
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:08,120
at what point in this equation 
is it worth intervening with to 

1762
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:10,960
fix this? 
And then you basically look at 

1763
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:14,600
going, OK, well, what's the 
opportunity cost of delaying 

1764
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:18,080
this by five years or 10 years 
in terms of the quality of life 

1765
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:22,360
that you can, you can get. 
And This is why I, I work with a

1766
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:25,520
lot of guys similar to yourself,
younger than you, older than 

1767
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,880
you, who are natural and they're
wanting to basically get 

1768
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:31,080
guidance on this decision. 
And my best recommendation is 

1769
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:33,640
that you get a comprehensive 
blood panel done every year. 

1770
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:37,720
And then that way over a three 
or four or five year period, you

1771
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:41,600
can look to see not just the 
decline of your testosterone 

1772
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:43,600
levels, if that's occurring, 
because they'll kind of 

1773
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:47,320
fluctuate a little bit, but you 
can actually see all the other 

1774
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:50,360
metabolic markers that 
testosterone impacts. 

1775
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:54,320
So over time, if you're looking 
after yourself well, which you 

1776
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,720
know, it sounds like based on, 
on who you are, that will be 

1777
01:31:56,720 --> 01:32:00,000
something that will remain 
constant if you see all those 

1778
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,120
things staying in place. 
But then on your blood work, you

1779
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:08,040
see all my insulin sensitivities
getting worse every year and my,

1780
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:12,640
my cortisol's going up and my 
prolactin's going up and my 

1781
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:16,760
triglycerides are going up and 
my sleep quality's going down 

1782
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:20,360
and my sex drives going down. 
And, you know, even though I'm 

1783
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:24,400
tracking, you know, my, my lifts
and my nutrition, I'm plateauing

1784
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:27,440
in the gym and I'm not waking up
properly recovered. 

1785
01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:31,520
And you can notice things 
starting to move in the wrong 

1786
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:35,000
direction, then you can make the
call to make that intervention. 

1787
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:38,240
But whether that occurs for you 
in five years, 10 years or 20 

1788
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:40,760
years, I mean, I've met some 
guys in their 60s who have 

1789
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,800
thriving testosterone levels. 
There are absolutely exceptions 

1790
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:46,560
to every rule. 
So it's really good to be able 

1791
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,440
to get data every year. 
Like I love it when clients come

1792
01:32:49,440 --> 01:32:51,880
and see me and they've got a 
blood test from every year for 

1793
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:54,960
the last 10 years and we can go,
OK, this is really easy now. 

1794
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,880
So start monitoring your blood 
work comprehensive panel every 

1795
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:00,640
year. 
That way you can kind of see 

1796
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,600
around the corner for stuff. 
And then if you you do notice 

1797
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:06,200
these comprehensive metabolic 
markers going in the wrong 

1798
01:33:06,200 --> 01:33:09,560
direction, you can intervene 
before it becomes a problem. 

1799
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:11,680
It's kind of like if you're 
driving your car and the check 

1800
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,440
engine light comes on, you're 
better off taking it to the 

1801
01:33:14,440 --> 01:33:17,480
mechanic van before it starts 
billowing smoke and making a 

1802
01:33:17,480 --> 01:33:21,360
bunch of noises. 
So it's much better to intervene

1803
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:25,520
when things start to drop off 
before the diseases of aging 

1804
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:28,840
start to accelerate. 
And that way you can start to, 

1805
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:32,280
you can basically find that 
sweet spot of saying, I'm going 

1806
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:35,600
to push this back to the point 
that it's needed, but then when 

1807
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:38,960
it is needed, I'm not going to 
delay pulling the trigger and 

1808
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:41,000
end up with consequences from 
that. 

1809
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:44,880
So I think it's people, if they 
don't need TLT, they shouldn't 

1810
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:49,720
do TLT. 
But if if it's on your radar, it

1811
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:51,840
will be a when decision, not an 
if decision. 

1812
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:55,000
Now it makes sense in regards to
women. 

1813
01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:57,080
Like I got a lot of question 
around menopausal years too, 

1814
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:59,800
like when everything does drop 
off the Cliff throughout those 

1815
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:04,760
menopausal, you know, window, 
once they get through that, like

1816
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:06,120
what's happening big picture 
there? 

1817
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:09,880
Like are they are they still 
going to benefit from getting on

1818
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:13,400
HRT post menopausal years or 
after that point? 

1819
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:15,440
Is it pretty well leveled off 
and stabilized and they could 

1820
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:18,880
just expect day-to-day things to
be about same same as normal? 

1821
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:23,760
So I often joke that I don't 
know anything about women at all

1822
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:25,680
at all. 
Ask my wife. 

1823
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:31,960
But the, the way that the way 
that menopause works when women 

1824
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:35,560
are describing menopause is they
talk about, they go through 

1825
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:38,200
menopause and then they come out
of menopause. 

1826
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:44,160
The process of going through 
menopause is the adjustment and 

1827
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:48,160
adaptation and subjective 
response to the ovaries 

1828
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:52,400
basically cocking it. 
So the, the testicles really 

1829
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,840
gradually die as a man gets 
older. 

1830
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:59,400
This is called primary 
hypogonadism with women. 

1831
01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:04,280
They completely cock it and you 
know, completely flatline when 

1832
01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:08,360
they hit menopause. 
So what they end up with is 

1833
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:12,280
basically a zeroed out 
progesterone level and a lot of 

1834
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:14,720
the time a very low testosterone
level. 

1835
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:18,200
And then the estrogen level will
vary based on the woman because 

1836
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:20,440
estrogen is produced outside the
ovaries. 

1837
01:35:20,440 --> 01:35:25,640
But the progesterone being 
crashed down to nothing is 

1838
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:29,200
really detrimental to a lot of 
aspects of their health. 

1839
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,080
So a lot of the time people 
think testosterone is the man 

1840
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:33,840
hormone and estrogen is the 
women hormone. 

1841
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:37,240
It's more so that progesterone 
is the women hormone. 

1842
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:41,200
If we talk about what hormone 
peaks when they're ovulating, 

1843
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:45,680
when we talk about what gives 
women the feminizing effects 

1844
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,760
that we would relate with 
femininity, it's progesterone. 

1845
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:52,200
And in the brain progesterone 
works a lot like Valium. 

1846
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,960
It's very calming, it's very 
relaxing, it's very anti stress.

1847
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:59,160
So when that hormone crashes out
to 0 along with all the other 

1848
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:01,920
hormones as well, I mean, 
thyroid tends to drop off too. 

1849
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:03,920
Melatonin production drops off 
too. 

1850
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,840
When they say they've come 
through menopause, it's more so 

1851
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:11,080
they've gotten used to it, but 
the hormone levels are still 

1852
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:14,680
crashed out. 
It's just the acute adjustment 

1853
01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:19,040
phase is over. 
But once a woman goes through 

1854
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:22,480
menopause, her risks of 
developing the diseases of 

1855
01:36:22,480 --> 01:36:25,960
aging, which is diabetes, 
cancer, heart disease, and 

1856
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:30,680
dementia, all go through the 
roof because the sex hormones 

1857
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:34,280
are protective against all of 
those systems being problematic.

1858
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:39,600
So once a woman has gone through
the horrors of menopause, she 

1859
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:43,200
would still benefit from 
correcting the hormone 

1860
01:36:43,200 --> 01:36:46,800
deficiencies. 
But if they want to be proactive

1861
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:50,000
with it, they don't have to go 
through the horrible suffering 

1862
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,560
of menopause. 
But I've also spoken to some 

1863
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:55,400
women who say this is the way 
that my body is supposed to age,

1864
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,800
and I want to age the way that, 
you know, nature or God 

1865
01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:59,040
intended. 
And I'm like, that's cool. 

1866
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:03,000
That's 100% your decision to do.
But for women who don't want to 

1867
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:06,880
suffer and go through that, and 
even when perimenopause is 

1868
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:10,560
occurring, like early stages of 
menopause, hormone replacement 

1869
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:13,280
therapy can absolutely be super 
beneficial. 

1870
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:15,680
One of the best people if you 
want to have them on your 

1871
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:19,200
podcast to talk about that is 
Doctor Fitz. 

1872
01:37:19,440 --> 01:37:24,080
Lauren, Lauren Fitzgerald. 
She's fantastic for speaking 

1873
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:27,040
about those topics. 
Awesome, awesome. 

1874
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:30,000
Well, I'm going to fight by the 
time kick his ass as long as I 

1875
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:32,240
can naturally, for sure, man. 
But if I go this route, man, 

1876
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,320
you're going to be the first to 
one that I called because you 

1877
01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:35,360
used to walk the knowledge on 
this. 

1878
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:37,320
And I appreciate everything 
you're saying, man. 

1879
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,120
Absolutely, absolutely I will. 
I will look forward to hearing 

1880
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,280
from you and having that chat. 
And for anyone who wants to 

1881
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:49,080
learn more about the nitty 
gritty of TRT in terms of like 

1882
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:51,880
protocols and injectables and 
how everything works, jump on 

1883
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:54,800
YouTube and search Dave Lee TRT 
Master class. 

1884
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:58,560
I've got like a 90 minute 
lecture that is for beginners or

1885
01:37:58,560 --> 01:38:01,480
for people who are first 
starting TRT and it goes through

1886
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:05,640
everything I know about how the 
actual execution of the process 

1887
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:07,520
works. 
And all that information is on 

1888
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:09,440
YouTube for free. 
Awesome. 

1889
01:38:09,440 --> 01:38:11,560
Well I will definitely link out.
Make it easy people to find you,

1890
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:12,800
Dave. 
If there's anything you need 

1891
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,000
from me man, just hit me up. 
Happy to keep the conversation 

1892
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:16,640
going brother. 
Absolutely. 

1893
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:17,800
Thank you so much for having me.