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Hello, ladies and gents Roberts.
Alex Quito Savage.com today. 

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I have special guests minnow 
handsome on on the line. 

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And I am super excited fail to 
listen this episode because we 

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covered a variety of topics that
I have most interest and respect

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for. 
And he is, he is one individual 

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who has done some incredible 
work in the training space and 

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the nutrition space. 
He takes a very data-driven 

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scientific evidence-based, 
approach towards the content 

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that he produces, and I totally 
agree with everything that. 

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He said, on today's episode, we 
talked quite a bit about the 

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best ways to build muscle, 
especially, for a seasoned 

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athlete. 
We talked about nutrition in 

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regards to different 
macronutrient manipulations. 

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How having a higher fat approach
can be incredibly conducive to 

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maintaining healthy hormone 
levels, especially in the 

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context of a competition prep or
lean, you know, physique someone

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that's gone through a deficit 
and is trying to lose as much 

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body fat as possible in a 
healthy manner. 

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A topic that I'm very passionate
about and we talked quite a bit 

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about Don't reverse dieting 
going through a building and 

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cutting phase and all the 
benefits that come along with 

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that, and we also talked a 
little about his traveling and 

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his new book, he has lived in 
over 50 countries and he has 

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just released a book. 
All about the psychology of 

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success. 
Honestly, how did create habits 

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and routines that lead to 
successful outcomes. 

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So I thoroughly thoroughly 
enjoyed the podcast. 

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I've got a most respect for him 
and what he is doing. 

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I have no doubt that you will 
leave this conversation, having 

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taking something actionable 
from. 

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It so that for their Doom, sit 
back, relax, enjoy the podcast 

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with no hands woman. 
We are live me know, how are you

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sir? 
Good Splash Beyond show a 

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pleasure to have you, man. 
I've I've been following your 

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work for a while. 
You've done a really good job at

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just, you know, your content is 
in multiple different languages 

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and covers a very broad scope. 
So I feel like you've done a 

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pretty good job from a marketing
standpoint. 

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I getting your message out 
there. 

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Yeah, I like to minute. 
It's not it's not super broad 

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scope. 
It's mainly that I don't have 

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the interest of most people have
for, you know, a lot of people 

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actually know a lot of things, 
but I think they're not very 

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diligent in how they absorb 
information, you know, they 

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watch the news a lot, you watch,
maybe, soccer, maybe they know, 

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all the players and football 
teams, and the history of the 

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world cup, and who fought 
through and who won and how many

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medals every team has all those 
things that's actually, Of 

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knowledge but it's not knowledge
that most people can use 

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professionally. 
Whereas I'm very focused on 

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certain things which are mostly 
Health productivity, 

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self-improvement related and I 
really focus on those things, 

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which makes me seem generally 
very knowledgeable, but when I'm

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outside of my areas of expertise
actually know very little. 

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So I actually do very poorly for
example, at games of trivia. 

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I think that's good though, man.
I feel like, there's so many 

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people that have they go too 
wide and not deep enough on a 

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given topic. 
Pick. 

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So it's always admirable in my 
mind to see someone that goes, 

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incredibly deep on a given topic
and it just has a wealth of 

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information or knowledge on that
subject matter. 

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I think so, I like that. 
And I think it, it's good to 

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always improve and Direction. 
That's actually competence is 

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one of the main drivers of 
intrinsic motivation so it 

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definitely works for me. 
Totally, what how'd you get into

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Fitness and Nutrition? 
The first place man I did some 

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reading on you in your 
background is in business. 

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What was the transition from 
that to health and nutrition? 

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Why always been Fitness? 
I tried every sports that was 

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available in my area as a kid. 
I was really into gymnastics. 

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I did a whole bunch of sports 
and it was more. 

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The career site was more to 
think that my parents wanted off

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me and Society sort of expected 
of me, rather than I was what I 

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was really passionate about. 
So there's basically been sort 

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of gravitation of my career more
towards, or The worst 

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mathematics, which is what I'm 
good at and more towards things 

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that I really enjoy, like 
Fitness. 

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So, it's more a convergence. 
Now, also not a published my 

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book and everything. 
It's the it finally things are 

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coming together a bit on 
psychology and statistics and 

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fitness. 
But before that, it was more, 

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that there was sort of the 
business sides and my job as a 

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business consultant and what I 
studied on the one hand and 

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fitness was purely basically a 
hobby and only when I started 

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working, In for myself and set 
up my own company start writing 

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about Fitness. 
That, that became my job. 

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Did it take a while for you to 
gain some traction and momentum,

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after you made that switch to 
making Fitness Nutrition, your 

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career path, or like, for people
like your family, for instance, 

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your parents, you push you 
towards the corporate route. 

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That they all think you were 
crazy in the beginning. 

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Yes. 
Yes, they did. 

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It took a long time actually for
a lot of people to accept my 

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career switch because it wasn't 
as, you know, prestigious and 

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traditional as typical careers 
of business consultant or lawyer

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or something but that definitely
never stopped me. 

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And in terms of the audience 
like reaching people that 

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actually went really fast 
because the very first article, 

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I wrote was published on T 
Nation and that was the time 

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when T Nation was still the 
platform. 

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Every big offer published on 
teenage fashion. 

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And as soon as I have an article
there, I had like 40 thousand 

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readers and I quickly scrambled 
up a website and things went 

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very quickly from their people 
started asking me for coaching, 

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that was not even something I 
plan to do. 

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I just started writing first and
coaching is something that just 

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sort of happened and that went 
really well. 

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And then I started getting Word 
of Mouth advertising from from 

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Plants and Things It's just went
off, took off really fast from 

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there, so I was really fortunate
in that regard. 

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Awesome, awesome. 
What's been the biggest headache

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or frustration I guess in 
creating content writing content

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in the fitness space? 
Because the fitness space is 

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very, you've got a lot of really
loyal followers across all 

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different kinds of you know, 
Scopes and topic matter. 

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But it seems like there's so 
much division in the fitness 

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space as well because people 
fall into these dogmatic groups 

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and cliques and you know Is 
better than everyone else is 

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way. 
So it's hard to really navigate 

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those Waters. 
It seems yeah, the thing for me 

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is that very valuable lesson. 
I learned studying economics, is

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that these things happen in 
every field. 

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Like economists, are some of the
smartest people on the planet? 

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You have very smart 
mathematicians that work on 

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these models and come up with 
these amazing theories. 

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But, even in that field, there 
is still a very widely held 

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belief. 
And basically, the fundamental 

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all traditional economic models 
is that people are fully 

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rational, and Clearly, people 
are not like ask any 

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psychologist. 
Ask any person. 

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People are not fully rational, 
people are not robots. 

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It should they should be almost 
self-evident almost axiomatic. 

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But Economist would say, well, 
you know, they kind of notice, 

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but they still think it's sort 
of the models work best as if 

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people are rational. 
But clearly they don't. 

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And that's basically the field 
of Behavioral economics, which, 

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what, I studied this it makes 
these models more realistic by 

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me. 
Kingdom predict things about how

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people actually act and think 
rather than how a perfectly 

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rational robots basically makes 
decisions. 

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So that it the models actually 
work and they're not just 

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theoretical exercises. 
But the thing is that in such a 

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field I could still see that 
there are these huge dogmas and 

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things that are regarded as 
controversial that are basically

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self-evident. 
So when I came into fitness, I 

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was, I was very well prepared 
for these kind of things and 

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It's Fitness is a bit more 
mainstream field and when you're

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publishing to the public at 
large, of course there is you're

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reaching the whole population 
and you have to tailor your 

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message for that. 
But I think I've been relatively

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successful at making. 
Sure things are both 

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understandable for Lay 
individuals, and also 

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sufficiently in depth for the 
more art for crowd to 

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scientists. 
I think it was Einstein who set?

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That's, it's only when you can 
explain something in very simple

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terms. 
That you really understand it. 

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Well, otherwise, you're just, 
you know, trying to sound smart 

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to other people, that are smart.
Totally when you're going 

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through and conducting a study 
or researching a given topic 

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matter, what's, what does that 
work flow? 

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Look like, like, do you just see
a lot of controversial 

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discussion around a given matter
and then decide, that's what 

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you're going to dive into and 
then pull up all the research on

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it or how does that work flow 
tend to pan out. 

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Very organic. 
It's very different for every 

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project I have tons and tons of 
notes. 

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So my computer, many of which 
I've properly I don't even know 

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they're there anymore and 
probably lots of notes. 

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I had even won't end up 
revisiting at any point but it's

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a it's a very organic process. 
I just I do lots of research, 

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lots of reading and sometimes 
something strikes, my fancy, a 

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certain topic and then I 
research it in great detail 

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these days. 
It's more updating of beliefs 

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because, you know, I've covered 
The groundwork of all the major 

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topics in major detail. 
In fact, one is sometimes when I

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read my old BT course materials.
I learn something new because of

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how extensive it is. 
So these days is very different 

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than it was. 
I think think that that 

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separated me at the time from 
from others and the 

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evidence-based Fitness industry.
And what people thought was 

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appealing about my Approach is 
that I didn't have a background 

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in Fitness. 
So I basically just I saw a 

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topic. 
I knew that I read a lot of 

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things about Fitness, I knew 
what kind of topics were sort of

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hot and those topics. 
I studied in lots of detail and 

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I basically just said, okay I 
don't care what anybody thinks. 

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I'm just this is the research 
question. 

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I'm just going to look at the 
research and I'm going to ignore

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the 20 years of, you know, bro, 
lower and traditional wisdom 

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about this and go to experience,
just going to look at what the 

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research has. 
And that's what I'm going to 

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write and articles, like about 
stretching protein intake, they 

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were usually controversial, but 
Actually not controversial at 

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all. 
When you looked at the research 

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that was relatively widespread 
consensus and those articles 

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were extremely successful 
because of exactly that 

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approach, that I just looked at 
the data and I ignored all the 

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things that people have been 
saying for very long times. 

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Do you find much of a, like a 
roadblock, I guess you could say

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with the communities in, you 
know, you publishing 

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evidence-based, research, and 
people finding that that is not 

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necessarily as applicable to 
people. 

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People in everyday life. 
For instance, there seems to be 

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a lot of division in nutritional
circles because people will 

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Point towards, you know, wrap 
models or very short-term 

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studies that indicate you know a
bias. 

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Possibly that's just not really 
applicable to people with their 

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normal life styles and, you 
know, day-to-day routines. 

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So it would be very hard to 
replicate that in actual life. 

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So a lot of people lean more. 
So on what is tried and true 

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based off of what people have 
been doing and seeing success 

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with four years. 
More so than what the science 

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itself points to Now, I think 
there are two topics here. 

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One is adherence. 
So, there are a lot of things 

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that are fear, ethically, 
optimal but practically 

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difficult. 
So you see that people don't 

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really end up implementing these
things or they're just not worth

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the effort. 
So then it's more a matter of 

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looking at often dye adherence 
and cost benefit. 

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But that's diverted that's 
different from the actual 

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science and science. 
Basically, says you give you 

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facts about how the world is and
then you have to make decisions 

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in terms of Implementing those 
facts are weighing that evidence

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into calls benefits to make 
personal decisions. 

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So I don't think science is 
separated from the fact you just

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have to basically you have to 
have practical sense as well as 

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the scientific knowledge and the
other. 

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The other question is, if the 
the basically the state of the 

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research and people that simply 
aren't persuaded by science and 

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my approach to that is very 
much. 

231
00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:29,400
I just don't write for those 
people. 

232
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:33,800
So there A lot of people who if 
you tell them their scientific 

233
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,300
evidence on the topic, they 
simply don't value scientific 

234
00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:40,000
evidence. 
Like they, they don't believe in

235
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,300
scientific methods or whatever 
and they just don't care. 

236
00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:49,100
And those people, I found, I 
think it's a trap to try to 

237
00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:52,100
convince those people and rather
you should just aim at 

238
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:55,300
convincing. 
The people that are open to 

239
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these things and these IDs and 
then other people follow a 

240
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,600
marketing term. 
It is a sort of a top-down 

241
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,900
approach where you first your 
reach, the experts and you 

242
00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:08,600
establish a consensus and then 
basically when all the experts 

243
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,600
starts start agreeing on 
something then people down down 

244
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,500
the chain that just listen to 
opinions rather than scientific 

245
00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:16,100
evidence. 
They will follow. 

246
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:18,200
I like that. 
I feel like it. 

247
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,100
Did he run yourself ragged 
trying to appeal to a 

248
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:23,700
demographic that doesn't even 
you know, put any stock in the 

249
00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:26,500
scientific research. 
So no sense in writing to that 

250
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:29,900
demographic in the first place. 
Yeah, you can spend hours 

251
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:33,100
debating someone on Facebook and
then still not convinced that 

252
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:37,600
one person and then you've just 
accumulated a lot of headache 

253
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:43,400
and heartache often trying to 
been successfully. 

254
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,100
Convince one person. 
When you could have spent that 

255
00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:48,600
time, productively talking to 
the Thousands of people are many

256
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,600
more that are willing to listen 
to your message. 

257
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,600
Totally, I'd love to kind of 
dive into some of these findings

258
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,700
that you've had over the years. 
I don't want to I mean I'm 

259
00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:58,500
assuming you have time to dive 
into everything that you've that

260
00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:02,000
you've discovered but let's just
pick like a couple from both the

261
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,000
training standpoint and also 
nutritional standpoint of topics

262
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,500
that you personally have found a
lot of interesting or mainstream

263
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:12,800
society would not necessarily 
know because it's not in line 

264
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,300
with the broll or that's passed 
down generation from generation.

265
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:18,400
So, let's start with some 
training aspects. 

266
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,000
First, what are some things that
you've discovered that 

267
00:14:20,300 --> 00:14:26,000
mainstream Society probably 
isn't aware of It depends on 

268
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,000
what you mean by the mainstream.
I think one very big one. 

269
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:32,100
Still that if you if you go 
really mainstream as the 

270
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:36,500
benefits of strength training, I
recently wrote a detailed post 

271
00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:39,800
which is a topic that I've 
written about few times. 

272
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,600
Before that strength, training 
per minutes of exercise is 

273
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,600
actually better for fat loss and
cardio. 

274
00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:48,900
And that's something that it's 
not just equal. 

275
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:51,600
It's actually better in the long
term. 

276
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,700
And there's very convincing 
evidence showing this for 

277
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,100
Numerous reasons that basically 
exercise strengthening is a long

278
00:14:58,100 --> 00:14:59,300
term investment into your 
energy. 

279
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:01,500
Expenditure not just a cute 
energy expenditure. 

280
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:04,300
It also prevents muscle. 
Also, you can build muscle, 

281
00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:07,000
which helps you expend. 
More energy is better for 

282
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:09,400
society regulation. 
It does not suffer from 

283
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,000
constraint energy expenditure so
it has a lot of advantages in 

284
00:15:13,008 --> 00:15:15,100
the acute energy. 
Expenditure differences not 

285
00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:18,700
nearly as large as most people 
like to think because many 

286
00:15:18,700 --> 00:15:22,000
people associate sweating and 
fatigue with energy expenditure 

287
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,600
rather than just going by the 
data basically. 

288
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,200
So I think that that's a topic 
that if you grow really 

289
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,300
mainstream is definitely 
underrated and for women in 

290
00:15:33,308 --> 00:15:37,300
particular, they're still so 
much bad information for for 

291
00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:40,900
women that want to get a nice 
physique and most of them 

292
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:43,000
objectively. 
If you look at like if you give 

293
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,100
them pictures and show them what
kind of physique day. 

294
00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:49,000
They want then strength training
is very often, the best way to 

295
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,800
achieve that physique. 
Maybe not full body but you 

296
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,600
know, many these days are many 
girls that like to train bikini 

297
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,700
Our Lord Wellness division kind 
of physique, but at least trying

298
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:01,600
to lower body groups in 
particular, Dells, we're 

299
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,300
strengthening and using playing 
doubles and standing on 

300
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:06,600
treadmills. 
Not going to give you a physique

301
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,100
like that. 
Yeah. 

302
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,700
Then if you go learning, here is
just part of me there. 

303
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:13,700
The cardio is just like when I'm
doing a competition prep for 

304
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:15,500
instance. 
So many people are so quick to 

305
00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:18,900
assume that you have to be doing
endless hours of steady state 

306
00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:21,700
low intensity cardio. 
And I try to keep my my actual 

307
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,100
cardio at an absolute minimum 
and it kind of use it as a 

308
00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:26,700
Minimum viable do so to speak 
and focus. 

309
00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:28,800
Most of, my time effort, energy 
on the resistance training. 

310
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,900
I feel like that's like you said
something that most people 

311
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:34,000
mainstream aren't really aware 
of, but you get a lot more bang 

312
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,500
for your buck with the heavy 
resistance training. 

313
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:40,400
Definitely, I'd say that by my 
summary review on cardio is also

314
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:46,700
a last resort, not the primary 
mode of fat loss, the cliches of

315
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:48,000
ABS. 
That's one of that's something, 

316
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,200
she ate. 
There are actually true, like, 

317
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,300
abs are made in the kitchen. 
And what's the? 

318
00:16:53,308 --> 00:16:54,500
Oh yeah, you can't out train a 
bad diet. 

319
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:59,000
Those are very, very true. 
Totally, what about the concept 

320
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,900
of the simple concept of just 
building muscle in its entirety 

321
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:05,200
like is it mostly just 
Progressive overload or there's 

322
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,099
some other hidden Concepts that 
you've uncovered is is 

323
00:17:09,099 --> 00:17:12,099
Progressive overload. 
The underlying Foundation to 

324
00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:14,700
adding additional lean mass to 
your frame. 

325
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:17,800
Yeah. 
That mechanisms of muscle growth

326
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,800
are very interesting topic that 
had a bit of a pendulum like 

327
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,900
development, which is throw you 
often see four topics where the 

328
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:28,900
research kind of swings in two 
directions and then especially 

329
00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:31,800
the media completely changes 
their opinion on something. 

330
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,800
And in the end, we kind of 
gravitate towards the middle, 

331
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,200
but in this case, they're long 
been research that mechanical 

332
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,400
tension is the primary driver of
muscle growth. 

333
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,900
And I think from what I've seen,
I'm a digital Nomad, so I have 

334
00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:49,100
In over 50 countries. 
And if you look at like how 

335
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:53,400
people intuitively train, it's 
actually the same everywhere, 

336
00:17:53,400 --> 00:18:00,400
like how to browse train in 
Vietnam, or in Hong Kong, or 

337
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:06,700
India, or Brazil or us or the 
Netherlands is all basically the

338
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:10,000
same. 
And that goes to show that there

339
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,400
must be something kind of 
intuitive behind it, right? 

340
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,900
It's not like, well, either is 
just, that's clearly what. 

341
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,000
Fast and everyone has found 
what's best. 

342
00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:21,400
But I think what's happening is 
that most people could you put 

343
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,900
someone in the gym and you don't
have scientific evidence. 

344
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:27,500
Well what do you know the 
process of muscle growth is very

345
00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:29,300
hard to measure. 
It's a slow process, it takes 

346
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:31,700
months. 
It can take a year before you, 

347
00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:34,600
you know, put on such an amount 
of muscle that you can clearly 

348
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000
do that. 
Someone else can see your way 

349
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,500
bigger especially when it's 
confounded by fat loss and 

350
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:42,300
everything. 
So you don't really have a cute 

351
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:43,800
feedback. 
Well what do you have? 

352
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:48,100
You have feelings? 
Well, you feel stretch to some 

353
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:51,800
extent and in particular the 
pump and burn, those are things 

354
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,700
you really feel, you feel it, 
and in the muscle that you're 

355
00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:57,100
training. 
So people get this idea that. 

356
00:18:57,100 --> 00:18:59,700
Well, there's something going on
there and then if it gets sore 

357
00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:02,300
afterwards, you know, that must 
be good, right? 

358
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:04,500
Because at least it's feedback, 
it's something. 

359
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:08,600
So I think people intuitively 
lean very heavily on these 

360
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,400
Sensations. 
These feelings that they have 

361
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,000
because there are things that 
they can first-hand witness in 

362
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,800
themselves as the only things 
they have. 

363
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,700
If so that was later essentially
rationalized into mechanisms of 

364
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:25,300
metabolic stress and muscle 
damage and basically, all 

365
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:27,800
subsequent research, has found 
that these mechanisms are 

366
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,500
trivial if at all contributors 
to muscle growth and the 

367
00:19:31,508 --> 00:19:34,900
original direction of mechanical
tension is basically stayed, 

368
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,400
intact is just mechanical 
tension that drives muscle 

369
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,400
growth. 
And even things that seem to be 

370
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,900
supportive of metabolic stress 
such as Blood Flow Restriction, 

371
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:46,900
research, actually research 
finds that Also caused by 

372
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:50,100
mechanical tension, for example,
not some more Blood Flow. 

373
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:55,300
Restriction exercise also works 
for non-included Limbs and 

374
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:57,900
that's something that completely
blows the idea of the water that

375
00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,000
it's the metabolic stress from 
the occluded from blood flow 

376
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,400
conclusion. 
That increases the muscle growth

377
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,000
in that area. 
And what happens is, basically, 

378
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,700
you're just making the exercise 
harder and that causes an 

379
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,500
increase in muscle activity and 
muscle activity means mechanical

380
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:13,200
tension. 
So in the end, it's still the 

381
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,000
mechanical tension on the muscle
fibers, that's driving the I'm 

382
00:20:16,008 --> 00:20:18,400
Grove. 
So if it is definitely an area 

383
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,800
where there's been a huge 
disconnect between sort of the 

384
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,400
dubrow's field and research. 
Yeah, definitely. 

385
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,500
So with someone that's for 
instance, more of a seasoned 

386
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,900
lifter, they've subjected at 
Mike to those stressors. 

387
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:33,000
Their body is adapted to that 
stressor, what's going to be the

388
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:36,700
best way for that. 
Advanced lifter to continue to 

389
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:41,100
add growth to their frame Beyond
just the simple aspect of 

390
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:44,200
mechanical tension, like as 
there, some specific techniques 

391
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,000
and practices that you found to 
be Credibly effective. 

392
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,700
A few. 
It's basically the culmination 

393
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:54,700
of all factors in a training 
program, like your rest 

394
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,500
intervals, your exercise, order 
your training volume, but the 

395
00:20:57,508 --> 00:21:00,600
big ones are really, you have to
train, sufficiently heart. 

396
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:04,000
Sufficiently close to failure 
because then every set you reach

397
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:07,800
all the motor units. 
You, you basically recruit all 

398
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,600
the muscle fibers, And you have 
to do that for a sufficient, 

399
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,900
number of cents to get a 
sufficient number of total 

400
00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:16,400
volume. 
And then ideally with with 

401
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,500
energy Surplus to fuel the 
process of muscle growth, even 

402
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:22,400
further. 
And then over time you want to 

403
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,000
increase that stress 
progressively. 

404
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,900
But it's good to realize that 
Progressive overload itself is 

405
00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:29,900
not the cause of muscle. 
Growth is the measure thereof. 

406
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,700
So, that's something that a lot 
of people think. 

407
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:35,700
If you're implementing 
Progressive overload, that's why

408
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:38,500
your muscles grow. 
No, it's the fact that the fact 

409
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:40,500
you can implement Progressive 
overload. 

410
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,100
It means that you successfully 
rooooar. 

411
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:47,500
Got the stronger, the last 
workout. 

412
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:52,500
So if you do bench press on 
Tuesday and Friday, and Friday, 

413
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,300
you're stronger. 
So now you can lift your, your 

414
00:21:55,300 --> 00:22:01,900
hrms 2.5 kg higher. 
That means that choose day's 

415
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:06,500
work out what successful in 
stimulating an overload and 

416
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:08,900
super compensation took place in
between those workouts. 

417
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,300
So it's more than measure that 
your program is working well, 

418
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:14,500
rather than the cause they're 
off. 

419
00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:18,000
And I think it's very important 
to realize that distinction 

420
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,000
because when people think of 
progressive overload as the 

421
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,600
cause of the muscle growth, 
start doing all these things 

422
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:29,100
like adding sets and density 
training and trying to, in many 

423
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:33,500
ways, sort of make the training 
harder to force, or force a 

424
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:36,300
progressive overload, but that's
not the essence of rest of 

425
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:38,800
overload. 
It's the measuring of the 

426
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,500
measuring that. 
Getting stronger and therefore, 

427
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:42,700
likely bigger. 
That's what you're doing. 

428
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:46,400
And just forcing, it does not. 
Actually mean, there is 

429
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,100
Progressive overload. 
Jackie, you can keep adding 

430
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:50,600
sets, you could keep cutting 
your rest of the files, but if 

431
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,000
you're not actually increasing 
your strength, we were just 

432
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,500
accumulating more training 
density or just accumulating 

433
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:59,100
more volume, which you may not 
even be able to recover from 

434
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:00,900
that does not actually mean, 
you're getting bigger. 

435
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:02,500
Mhm. 
Yeah. 

436
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:05,800
I feel like, a lot of people get
hung up on, like, volume, for 

437
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,300
instance. 
You see a lot of broke, bro. 

438
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,300
Lifters, putting all the 
emphasis on volume. 

439
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,900
Umm and and they just assume 
that. 

440
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,200
If you've increased volume that 
is in itself, all you need to do

441
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:18,100
and they don't really 
distinguish between if that 

442
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:22,000
increased volume comes from 
added weight or added reps. 

443
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,900
So from like a, an actionable 
standpoint, if someone's hitting

444
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,200
a plateau, for instance, on, you
know, bench press. 

445
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:32,900
What would be the not a lot of 
context here? 

446
00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:35,900
What would you recommend as a 
good first step towards moving 

447
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:37,400
things and busting through that 
plateau? 

448
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,100
Well, there are a few things you
have to first, you have to sort 

449
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:45,700
of diagnose the problem, for 
example, what I like to do in 

450
00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:49,500
particular is see if it's if 
it's just the bench press, or if

451
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:54,100
it's all exercises for the 
banks, for example, and you have

452
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:57,000
to evaluate what current trading
volume is, in particular because

453
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,600
volume is definitely, it's a big
one. 

454
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,500
It's definitely not the end, all
be all, but it's probably the 

455
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:06,100
primary variable to the most 
influential one at least. 

456
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:09,500
And you have to see, is it 
likely that I'm under training 

457
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,500
or over training? 
Or is it just the fact that my 

458
00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:16,000
bench press is basically lift? 
This course, it's really close 

459
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,200
to what I can realistically game
and what kind of training 

460
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,800
intensity I'm using. 
So if it's if it's just the 

461
00:24:21,808 --> 00:24:26,200
bench press you think the 
overall program is good? 

462
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,300
Then some of the same techniques
you can use our daily undulating

463
00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,400
periodization and 
intensification just increasing 

464
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,200
the training intensity while 
maintaining training. 

465
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,700
Volume is a really good way to 
Spur continued. 

466
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:41,100
Strength development and that 
allows you to keep monitoring 

467
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:44,400
Progressive overload. 
And there's also some research 

468
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,500
indicating that strength gains 
over the long run. 

469
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:51,300
Might contribute to increased 
muscle growth, but even if it's 

470
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:53,400
just, if it just trying to, you 
know, that's who doesn't want to

471
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,900
just be stronger. 
If it doesn't fit at least 

472
00:24:55,900 --> 00:25:00,400
doesn't hurt muscle growth. 
But if it's all muscles or 

473
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,000
exercises for side effects, like
it's also your flies are your 

474
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,800
dumbbell bench press? 
Then it's likely. 

475
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,600
That something in your total 
back training program needs to 

476
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,200
be adjusted. 
Like maybe your volume needs to 

477
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:16,600
go down or up or Maybe those 
exercises you're doing too late 

478
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,300
in your workouts, because 
typically exercises, you do 

479
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:21,900
later, especially if you've 
already trained those muscles 

480
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:23,800
before and that workouts they 
progress last. 

481
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,700
Well so basically you have to 
diagnose really what the extent 

482
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:30,200
of the problem is and then fix 
that depending on what you 

483
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,100
perceive to be. 
The most likely culprit, what 

484
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:35,400
about training frequency? 
That's going to differ quite a 

485
00:25:35,408 --> 00:25:38,700
bit between natural athletes 
versus ones that are using 

486
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:40,300
performance-enhancing drugs. 
Is there? 

487
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:43,200
A general consensus as to how 
much a single muscle group 

488
00:25:43,300 --> 00:25:46,400
Should be trained and targeted 
in a given week for instance. 

489
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,400
I'd say the consensus at least 
once per week and most likely at

490
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,900
least twice a week. 
As soon as someone is trained 

491
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:58,000
like an untrained individuals 
once a week is sufficient. 

492
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,400
But in trained individuals, most
research Earth stores to 

493
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,500
workouts per week being needed 
to maximize growth. 

494
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,000
If not theoretically then at 
least practically because you 

495
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,600
just can't fit enough productive
volume in one session scatter. 

496
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,300
Some research suggesting that 
there's a limit of potentially 

497
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:19,500
as low as like 9 to 14. 
That's, it's not very direct 

498
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:24,100
research, but around 10 sets, 
might be a sort of an upper 

499
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:27,700
limit of what the body can 
really productively recover from

500
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:29,100
it. 
After that point it seems that 

501
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,400
you're not really increasing the
anabolic stimulus. 

502
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,600
Think about he saying okay I get
it you know we need to grow but 

503
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,000
there's a limit to how much 
growth you can get in one 

504
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,900
workout but there is not a limit
to how much damage you can do. 

505
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,800
It won't work out so that point 
you just accumulating excess 

506
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,600
fatigue Without Really 
stimulating that much more 

507
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,100
growth because theoretically you
could Just look at it. 

508
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,700
Like could you get super jacked 
by just doing one workout a 

509
00:26:51,708 --> 00:26:54,100
month and making it an 
absolutely insane? 

510
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:56,000
Brutal workouts? 
No, of course not. 

511
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,900
Right. 
So they're, they're just based 

512
00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:00,100
on that ground slow, you can 
logically conclude that there is

513
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:04,700
some form of upper limits. 
I'm actually a big proponents to

514
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:07,500
really maximize muscle growth of
higher training frequencies. 

515
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,700
I'm not a sort of the high 
frequency guy known for even 

516
00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:13,200
full body everyday kind of 
workouts and I think that can 

517
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,600
work very well as long as you 
keep total volume and check and 

518
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,800
then the big benefit is that 
your quality volume is really 

519
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,200
high because you're basically, 
every time your training muscle 

520
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,000
group, your it's fresh at least 
for that day. 

521
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:31,300
So, you can do a lot more reps 
per set than if you would have 

522
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:34,100
done. 
Say, W after leg presses. 

523
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:37,700
If you do the squats first and 
the leg press is on a different 

524
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:39,900
day. 
You can do many more apps or you

525
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:42,300
can lift heavier weights. 
For same amount of reps on both 

526
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:45,500
exercises are all probably, 
especially the later, one squats

527
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:49,100
in this case. 
So if you do full body, like if 

528
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:51,200
in this scenario of your full 
body, every single day, you're 

529
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,300
doing much fewer different 
exercises for a given body part.

530
00:27:56,500 --> 00:28:01,600
Uh, not necessarily fewer actual
sizes, but less fewer sets per 

531
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,900
exercise perception for sure. 
Otherwise, you know, you can 

532
00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:08,500
just I think it's a big trap of 
people decide do say upper lower

533
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:10,600
upper lower. 
And in the year, allows high 

534
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,300
frequency training and then they
just do the same workouts. 

535
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:16,000
But now six times a week instead
of four times, well, then 

536
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,600
you're, you know, adding 50 
percent training volume, and 

537
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,800
that might be a bit too much. 
Gotcha, do you typically see 

538
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,200
more division in the in the the 
training aspect of things are 

539
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,500
more? 
So in the nutritional Realm, 

540
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,500
We're all wobbly nutritional but
both do but nutrition is simply 

541
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:37,300
more hotly, debated in large 
part? 

542
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:39,300
Probably because nutrition 
concerns everyone. 

543
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,500
You know, people that do 
endurance, training people to do

544
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:46,700
Zumba dietitians, they all have 
an opinion on nutritional facts.

545
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,300
Well, everybody eats, right? 
So, everybody has an opinion on 

546
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:53,200
that, logician all doctors these
days have a, their own book 

547
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,000
about nutrition even though they
never studied it. 

548
00:28:56,100 --> 00:29:00,200
So I think nutrition is more 
controversial due to these. 

549
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,200
This is more wide variety of 
views to come into it. 

550
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,400
Look at strength training, you 
know, you have especially 

551
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,000
serious strength training. 
You don't have that many fields,

552
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,900
you have the athlete, you have 
to borrow the stairs Olympic 

553
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:13,100
weightlifters, bodybuilders and 
the recreational, trainees buzz,

554
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:16,700
you know, I think how much 
percentage of population figures

555
00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:19,600
like 1/3 or show that's does 
goes to the gym. 

556
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,000
Not nearly as much as people 
that are concerned with dieting 

557
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,400
which I think is like 80% Plus 
The population they make sense. 

558
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,600
I'd love to kind of dive into 
some of these different, you 

559
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,200
know, beliefs when it comes to 
nutrition. 

560
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,300
But first I'd love to just ask, 
what is the typical day of 

561
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:36,700
eating? 
Look like for you, what type of 

562
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:41,100
food do you typically gravitate 
to I'm currently bulking, which 

563
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,600
means I don't go low card 
because it's simply impossible. 

564
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:49,700
Find out, bulking in general, is
becomes like, low-carb becomes 

565
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:51,900
difficult. 
When the fats have to exceed 

566
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,700
protein intake or at least keto 
becomes difficult like low carb.

567
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:59,900
Still very doable but Quito 
becomes tricky then up until 

568
00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:02,600
that point. 
I sometimes do ketogenic diets 

569
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,300
and more low carb and definitely
not a big proponent of high carb

570
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,500
or a lot. 
I'd say I'm a proponent of 

571
00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:11,800
high-fat if Fit into your 
Macros, it's not that I hate 

572
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,300
scarce, but it's that, I like 
fights. 

573
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:17,500
And I think that's our review in
the Raiders for for many 

574
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:19,400
purposes, including muscle 
growth areas. 

575
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,000
Very interesting, new research 
or not, it's not so new. 

576
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,300
But it's a lot of interesting 
research that fats actually have

577
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:26,700
an errant anabolic effects on 
muscle. 

578
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:29,900
In a case, in the rule, by my 
current diet. 

579
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:33,000
It's free meals a day. 
Sometimes I go up to 4, but, 

580
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,600
mainly only, when I go to 4500 
plus calories and pretty much 

581
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,300
spread across the Dre, they with
Painting session after the 

582
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:45,000
second workout. 
This sort of training session is

583
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,000
sandwiched between about 25. 
Our intramural window Just A 

584
00:30:48,008 --> 00:30:50,900
good rule of thumb for nutrient 
timing. 

585
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,300
Most of my calories are in the 
later part of the day especially

586
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:59,800
post-workout periods as really 
high protein in terms of well 

587
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:02,400
moderate protein. 
I guess it's like I guess I'm 

588
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,900
getting about a gram per pound. 
I generally recommend people get

589
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:08,900
at least one point eight grams 
per kilogram per day and don't 

590
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:13,100
think there's much need for more
in most cases and then the The 

591
00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:15,300
mix of think it's about forty 
percent fat. 

592
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,400
Let's say Andres carbs, all 
right, so I definitely dive into

593
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,800
this because I'm kind of known 
as the high fat guy within the 

594
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,800
the ketogenic Realms low-carb 
communities. 

595
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,100
And I'd love to dive into what 
you finding about the anabolic 

596
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:32,100
nature of that cherry fan, 
because there seems to be and 

597
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:33,300
I'm sure you've picked up on 
this. 

598
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:36,300
There's this, I mean, keto has 
grown in popularity quite a bit 

599
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:41,000
over the years and as such the, 
the word ketogenic has been 

600
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,200
bastardized over the past few 
years and is removed from what 

601
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,900
it was, never originally 
intended to mean. 

602
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,900
There's all these different You 
know, groups, now there's high 

603
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:53,300
protein, low fat keto, which is 
kind of comical to me, but 

604
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:56,200
there's all these different 
dietary groups and I'd love to 

605
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,400
get your take on the importance 
of that GFI because I feel like 

606
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,600
that is starting to get lost in 
in the in the chaos of speak. 

607
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,900
Yeah it's funny because 
traditionally I think a lot of 

608
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:11,400
body builders in particular I've
decided up carbs are inherently 

609
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,800
anabolic and fats are not. 
You see that very often in 

610
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,700
people that really are not very 
Well, informed as say that's a 

611
00:32:18,708 --> 00:32:21,700
low carb diets. 
Testosterone levels are a big 

612
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:25,100
concern, whereas, the research 
is very clear that high fat 

613
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,900
diets are precisely what 
increases testosterone levels. 

614
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,300
In fact, there was a study, 
finding a particularly strong 

615
00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:34,500
support for this. 
This was published, I think in 

616
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:38,500
the past year where they found 
that the switch to a high fat 

617
00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:41,400
diets not necessarily keto, it 
was actually not much difference

618
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,200
between just high fat and keto 
resulted from from high carbon 

619
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,900
before. 
I think they went from 15% 

620
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:55,500
carbs, 20% maybe to lot sixty 
percent sixty and eighty. 

621
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:59,700
I think where the numbers so 
really, I fats by my most honors

622
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:05,700
resulted in about a 33% increase
in both Total and free 

623
00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:10,000
testosterone. 
So that's actually probably 

624
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,000
clinically significant at least 
in a long, long run. 

625
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:14,900
Like, there are some contrasting
opinions on this. 

626
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,500
Some people in an evidence based
in Actually a lot of people 

627
00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,100
think just how strong those are 
relevant appear until the 

628
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:24,300
physiological limits and I think
that's that makes no sense. 

629
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:27,300
Like there's just a dose 
response effect and the and the 

630
00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:30,800
physiological range that we is 
pretty arbitrary what we Define,

631
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,900
as sort of normal levels, it's 
more of a descriptive value of, 

632
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,100
you know, four standard 
deviations across certain 

633
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,700
average samples rather than some
some, some magical numbers. 

634
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,900
So think actually these things 
they should have an effect at 

635
00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:48,200
least over the very long run. 
Laughing steroid. 

636
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,800
Like it will take many months, 
maybe even years for these 

637
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,500
effects to fully manifest. 
And that's also what we see in 

638
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:57,900
research and 3rd for example. 
But that's one one area of 

639
00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:00,200
anabolic effects of fat and the 
other is the more Direct effects

640
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,900
on protein synthesis and lean 
lean body mass accrual. 

641
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:07,000
And we see that mostly on poly 
unsaturated fats and not just 

642
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,199
your mega freeze. 
But seemingly all of us. 

643
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:13,400
And there have been, I think 
about six studies, which 

644
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,400
includes two randomized, 
controlled trials and for 

645
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,400
Prospective studies, where they 
find that people that have more 

646
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,100
of certain fats in our diets, 
gain more lean body mass. 

647
00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:28,699
So that's an untrained 
individuals unfortunately. 

648
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,699
But that's, of course, very 
promising because if that also 

649
00:34:31,699 --> 00:34:34,900
applies to trained individuals, 
strength, training individuals, 

650
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,800
and that would be huge. 
That would basically mean I fad 

651
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,400
diets are superior for muscle 
growth and you said that was in 

652
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,800
polyunsaturated fat. 
Yeah, mostly polyunsaturated 

653
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,100
fats. 
There's one study. 

654
00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:49,400
I think it is from its using And
all of us have certain compounds

655
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,400
in them, that may have effects 
in addition to just the fonts, 

656
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:57,600
but most of the research is on 
profiles and omega-3 is, of 

657
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,700
course, there's lots of research
that they have anabolic effects.

658
00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:05,300
What the hormonal effect is is 
get me incredibly interested 

659
00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:09,600
because you know when I compete 
for a bodybuilding show I've 

660
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,900
done this you know with both a 
ketogenic prep protocol and a 

661
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,300
traditional bro that in protocol
and it's pretty common. 

662
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:20,100
I mean the general mainstream 
approach towards prepping and 

663
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:22,700
you know, all this is like, 
they'll keep protein incredibly 

664
00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:26,000
high and they'll drop fat down 
very low, with the intention of 

665
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:28,900
preserving as much muscle mass 
as possible because they believe

666
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:32,200
that the high protein is very 
muscle sparing in the Next of 

667
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,100
the caloric deficit, I've found 
that my ability to retain lean 

668
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:39,900
mass has significantly Amplified
by keeping dietary fat much, 

669
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:43,600
much higher and making protein. 
A more manipulated variable. 

670
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,800
I don't Advocate low protein by 
any means, but during the final,

671
00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:49,700
you know, few weeks or month of 
a competition prep, when I am in

672
00:35:49,707 --> 00:35:53,000
a very steep deficit by taking 
my protein down lower. 

673
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,200
I don't notice any significant 
drop in lean mass or performance

674
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,100
and I think that's largely in 
part due to the fact that my 

675
00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:01,700
testosterone levels are much 
more stable. 

676
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,600
Able as a result of the higher 
fat and I've done blood work 

677
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:07,700
with both a traditional prep 
protocol and a ketogenic prep 

678
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:11,200
protocol and my natural 
testosterone level. 

679
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Stay much more within a healthy 
range with the higher fat 

680
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,900
approach. 
Yep, I think, especially the 

681
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:22,900
basically, zero fat, traditional
bodybuilding pouch is a big trap

682
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,200
for numerous reasons, 
testosterone levels being one of

683
00:36:25,207 --> 00:36:27,500
them. 
I also find that my female 

684
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:30,400
competitors retain their 
menstrual cycle longer when they

685
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,700
are on sufficiently high fat 
diet and I think also for 

686
00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:38,400
appetite management, it's a trap
to go zero fat because at first 

687
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,300
it seems great like the first 
week maybe two weeks but 

688
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:44,800
actually even a bit longer 
because you free up a lot of 

689
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,600
calories and certainly you can 
Very high food volume but most 

690
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,800
people I found that try this 
long term. 

691
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,200
It kinda creeps up on you bu get
an insane increase in appetite. 

692
00:36:57,300 --> 00:37:00,900
It's like you your you have this
ravenous appetite is just 

693
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,800
insatiable and it takes weeks to
months to recover that after a 

694
00:37:06,808 --> 00:37:09,900
contest or a super low fat face 
enough spoken to many coaches 

695
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:13,400
that have experienced this on 
both sides of the board. 

696
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:17,000
We're both of, you know, high 
carb Proponents lokar, 

697
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,400
proponents, where they say that,
if you go really zero fast, then

698
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,300
bad things happen to your mood 
well-being and your appetite. 

699
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,200
So, I think that it's definitely
good to. 

700
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:30,600
I'd also never go low protein as
keep rotating at, basically, one

701
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,100
point, eight grams per kilogram 
per day minimum, but you could 

702
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:39,000
argue for 1.6 based on the 
research but like 21.8 based on 

703
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,400
lemons research, basically 
double standard deviation. 

704
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,200
Added on top of that. 
And that's basically all you 

705
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,600
need. 
So I think there's makes a lot 

706
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,000
of sense to cut protein to that,
level to the optimal level, when

707
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,800
you can fit use more fibrous 
carbs for satiety and try to 

708
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,600
keep fats in there as long as 
possible. 

709
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,700
Totally, totally green. 
This kind of flies in the face 

710
00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:06,100
of a lot of the people that are 
leaning heavily on the, you 

711
00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:09,900
know, calories in, calories out 
as being the one and only driver

712
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:13,500
for body recomposition. 
I feel like that maybe You a 

713
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,800
much better argument in a 
population in which they're all 

714
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,100
within a healthy body fat 
percentage, you know, in and 

715
00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:24,200
taking it and maintenance intake
of food or their bounce. 

716
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,200
But when you start really 
looking at the extreme ends of 

717
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,700
the spectrum, like, in a 
competition prep, when you are 

718
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:32,100
much lower on the body fat, you 
know, you really start having to

719
00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:34,600
take things into account as to 
how these different 

720
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,900
macronutrients impact, your 
Hormone, Health, or else, you're

721
00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:39,400
really just going to be kind of 
screwing yourself so to speak. 

722
00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:43,600
Yeah, I think I think these 
effects become more more parents

723
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,700
for sure in countless prep in 
general in countless prep. 

724
00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:49,300
It's, it's very good experience 
to see when things start to 

725
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:51,000
matter. 
Also, for appetite regulation of

726
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,600
stuff because things that may 
seem to work at other times 

727
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,000
contest prep. 
Really puts you test test you to

728
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,200
your limits. 
So you really find what really 

729
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:01,800
is sustainable and World works 
best. 

730
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:05,100
I would say that protein and 
calorie intake of probably the 

731
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:07,900
big factor when it comes to 
muscle mass retention. 

732
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:10,600
Like even if you stay high fat, 
if you just crashed Your way to 

733
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,800
a contest, you're going to be 
losing a lot of muscle, of 

734
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,900
course, but I think fattest is 
definitely underrated for. 

735
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:19,800
Is what's your take on one 
topic? 

736
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,200
That I see a lot of people not 
really talking about, is the 

737
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,500
importance of spending time in a
caloric Surplus, reverse dieting

738
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:30,700
after a deficit and kind of 
letting things equalize and that

739
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:33,800
doesn't get near as much, you 
know, attention because it's not

740
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,400
as appealing to talk about. 
You know, talking about getting 

741
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,100
shredded, you're talking about 
adding some body fat, what does 

742
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:41,700
the research show in? 
Words to the significance of 

743
00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:44,200
that because I see so many 
people just chronically under 

744
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,200
eating and I feel like they just
are not aware of the benefits 

745
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,100
that come with putting your body
in a period of a surplus. 

746
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,900
Yeah, I think that's a big 
mistake. 

747
00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:57,000
That's especially women. 
When they get up to say, the 

748
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,600
intermediate level make is 
there. 

749
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,200
They don't bulk and you can gain
muscle pretty well, even an 

750
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,400
energy deficit. 
If you are a novice trainee, if 

751
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,600
you do things, well, even as an 
intermediate rainy. 

752
00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:11,900
But when you get to the truly 
Level if you just eat 

753
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:14,800
maintenance or below, you're not
going to be putting on any more 

754
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,100
muscle, pretty much. 
In fact, you could basically say

755
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:20,900
that's almost the definition of 
an advanced trainee, I would 

756
00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:24,500
say, and you need to bulk at a 
point. 

757
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:28,200
And especially if you do 
competitions, you need offseason

758
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,000
phases in between and basically,
every successful competitor I've

759
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,600
talked to agrees with this. 
You just, you need to get out of

760
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,800
that, super low body, fat range,
otherwise, you just at a minimum

761
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,800
you go crazy. 
And your appetites, your 

762
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,200
menstrual cycle, these things 
are all massively deregulated, 

763
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,100
you're just not a happy person. 
And I've also found that injury 

764
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:51,900
rates are significantly higher 
and injuries that do occur 

765
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,800
recover much lower So I think 
there's definitely a low limit 

766
00:40:56,700 --> 00:40:58,700
and you can even see this in 
blood work, you know, like a lot

767
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:00,400
of competitors especially if 
they do. 

768
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,300
The zero fat approach, they're 
basically not just hyper going 

769
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:07,000
at all. 
During that contest like they 

770
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,200
have low testosterone levels but
they're like a straight level. 

771
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:14,100
Yeah testosterone levels so that
is just gone there's nothing and

772
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:17,100
clearly that's not some an alibi
like states to stay in four 

773
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:18,300
months. 
Yeah. 

774
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:20,700
And they don't think people 
realize how long it takes to 

775
00:41:20,700 --> 00:41:23,100
recover from that. 
Like when you when you go then 

776
00:41:23,100 --> 00:41:25,900
with a very, very More fat 
approach or low-fat approach to 

777
00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:27,200
the extent that you're cutting 
out. 

778
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,300
Fish oil pills to make your fat 
macros, then, what's going to 

779
00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:33,900
happen long term with regard to 
your, your hormonal health is 

780
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:37,000
going to put you in a very bad 
place to build any, any 

781
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,900
significant muscle after that 
show. 

782
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,000
And look better. 
The next time you step on stage 

783
00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:45,700
Definitely, especially if you 
were I think the the way people 

784
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:48,600
sort of compensate for this 
sometimes is they basically 

785
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,900
binge and they just gained a lot
of fat very quickly but of 

786
00:41:51,900 --> 00:41:54,300
course that's not a desirable 
outcome either. 

787
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,400
So it's it made that's made is 
more your body basically forcing

788
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,900
you to bulk. 
Even if it's just temporarily 

789
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,000
and get you out of that super 
low body fat range. 

790
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:08,700
Which for reference I'd say is 
say sup 10% sub? 

791
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:11,400
Some men can stay like eight 
percent lean. 

792
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,500
Chronically, but most find below
10% is getting difficult. 

793
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,500
Is there a body fat percentage 
that you would see as being 

794
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:23,700
optimal for being in a building 
phase like as their percent body

795
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:27,200
fat that that most people should
kind of try to stick around? 

796
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,900
If the primary goal is to add 
more lean mass I think so. 

797
00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:36,200
Yeah, I think I had a large 
debates about this with, 

798
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,100
Rocco's, American wrestler, 
pretty good debates. 

799
00:42:39,100 --> 00:42:43,000
A few also to his, the 
contrarian stance on base, but I

800
00:42:43,008 --> 00:42:46,400
think there are solid evidence, 
what basically, everyone agrees 

801
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,000
on also in that debate that low 
body fat levels are detrimental 

802
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,700
in part because of the pillow 
anabolic hormone levels and 

803
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:56,300
anecdotal evidence. 
For this is pretty strong and 

804
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:59,200
consistent, I don't know anyone 
who thinks you're staying. 

805
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,800
Super shredded all the time. 
I'm is that the key to getting 

806
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,200
jacked and I think there's also 
a very compelling evidence 

807
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,800
that's being too high in body 
fat, like being overweight. 

808
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,900
And especially when you look at 
obesity is also bad for muscle 

809
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:13,800
growth. 
And you see this in various 

810
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,800
lines of research, there's 41 
anabolic resistance. 

811
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,400
So you see less muscle protein 
synthesis in response to meals 

812
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,200
and training training is a 
little mix, but at least two 

813
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,200
meals. 
So you see pretty consistently 

814
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,200
reduced, muscle protein 
synthesis in obese individuals, 

815
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:32,600
compared to lean individuals. 
And there's also again, research

816
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,200
on normal levels, like obese 
individuals, especially men have

817
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:40,300
typically lower testosterone 
levels because fat Mass adipose 

818
00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:46,200
tissue aromatize has this fact 
or testosterone to estrogen, so 

819
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,200
your ratio of testosterone to 
estrogen your male to female sex

820
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,100
hormone ratio becomes worse. 
That's also why sometimes obese 

821
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,100
individual section of you gets 
leave it all problems. 

822
00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,100
Erection problems, gyno. 
So they get basically, 

823
00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:02,200
Formation. 
That's due to these hormonal 

824
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,300
disruptions. 
And then we also have research 

825
00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:06,700
showing that the lease 
individuals generally have lower

826
00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:09,800
recovery capacity, like that 
takes them longer to recover 

827
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,500
from a given work out, then lean
individuals. 

828
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,800
And by the way, we also see this
in very lean, at least in women,

829
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,300
we have one or two studies. 
Something to studies showing 

830
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:20,700
that very lean women. 
Also recover slower after 

831
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:23,300
workouts when they are 
basically, like anorexic level 

832
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,400
lean. 
So if you combine all of these 

833
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,600
lines of research with some 
other scans, Findings. 

834
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,200
Like there's one very 
questionable, but somewhat 

835
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,600
proof-of-concept study on 
rodents showing that high body 

836
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,200
fat levels, a muscle growth 
directly. 

837
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,900
I think it's, it's a pretty good
idea, not to get too high in 

838
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:45,900
body fat unless you have a very 
good reason, you know, if you're

839
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:49,000
a sumo wrestler or a powerlifter
animal, needs to make a certain 

840
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,500
weight class, then you can do 
it. 

841
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:55,200
But I think for most individuals
to stay lean, stay healthy lean 

842
00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:56,900
basically. 
The same range as is probably 

843
00:44:56,900 --> 00:44:59,100
optimal for your health. 
It's probably also best for her.

844
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:03,200
So rough and that's like for a 
male for instance, that would be

845
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,500
roughly. 
What do you think? 

846
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:06,400
Like 12, 15 percent someone 
there. 

847
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:09,500
No, that's pretty. 
That's pretty safe. 

848
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,300
I'd say some men can go low. 
Like, I'd say, maybe seven to 

849
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:17,200
Seventeen percent or so, like 
I'd work towards being a bit 

850
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,700
leaner, because there's, there's
just no reason to get close to 

851
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,100
say 20%, I'd say as a man. 
So I were to work a little on 

852
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:29,500
the lean side but around around 
10%. 

853
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:31,600
You know, that's a Target at 
most men shoot for and if you 

854
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,900
still feel good and stuff at 
that point, I think that's 

855
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,200
maintainable and probably also 
good. 

856
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,900
And if we're women, you were 
roughly at about 10% of this 

857
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:44,100
with the added caveat that women
have less to fear from getting 

858
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,800
up to high body fat levels. 
There's actually even some 

859
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,200
research showing that it might 
benefit to start from levels. 

860
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:54,800
And after Jen levels only start 
decreasing at a very high body 

861
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,800
fat level. 
Because women have Superior 

862
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,700
metabolic Health, compared to 
men in large part due to their 

863
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,800
feminine body fat distribution. 
They will store as much in the 

864
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,400
abdominal area which means that 
the fats they have is not That's

865
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,100
a rental and they don't suffer 
from the aromatization of 

866
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:13,300
testosterone to estrogen to 
nearly the same extent as men. 

867
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,900
So I find that women basically 
never get to the point where 

868
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:21,600
they're they're booking to arts 
and because all women or most 

869
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:26,100
women by far one to get lean. 
So it's almost never concerned 

870
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:28,600
to get too high in body fat for 
women and it's more concerned. 

871
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,400
Generally, I'd say that men try 
to build too hard, sometimes and

872
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,400
women sometimes try to stay to 
lean too much next row. 

873
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,700
Sense, I think Discussion around
the importance of having 

874
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:42,900
building and cutting phases is 
so, so important. 

875
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:45,700
And the hard thing is like 
certain markers of Health. 

876
00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:50,000
Like if you take a lipid panel, 
for instance, it's going to show

877
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,400
worse than if you're in a 
surplus and if you are in a 

878
00:46:52,408 --> 00:46:54,500
deficit so people just assume 
that they should always be in a 

879
00:46:54,508 --> 00:46:57,600
deficit but there's like a yin 
and yang so to speak that comes 

880
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,000
with these different phases. 
And if you optimize for enduring

881
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,100
the building phase, you're going
to have a much more productive 

882
00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:06,700
cutting phase and I feel like 
people need to view life. 

883
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,100
If and, and this training cycle,
and nutritional cycle through 

884
00:47:10,100 --> 00:47:13,100
this, you know, circular motion.
So to speak in which you were 

885
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:15,800
moving from one to the other and
constantly, having a goal as 

886
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,900
opposed to just chronically 
being in one or the other. 

887
00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:20,500
Definitely you need to find that
balance. 

888
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:24,200
I think a lot of people, they 
what happens at a certain point.

889
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,700
When they've gotten used to 
getting lean and they know how 

890
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:30,400
to stay lean is what happens is.
They they do successfully stay 

891
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,200
lean, but it's interspersed with
social media events binges 

892
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,200
holidays, that make them have to
cut it again. 

893
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,700
And as a result, they spent a 
very large portion of the year 

894
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:44,100
coming. 
Whereas for successful long-term

895
00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:47,600
growth, I'd say that most people
probably want to spend 75 

896
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,900
percent or so of their time. 
Booking and only about a third 

897
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:53,400
of the time. 
They spend bilking, should they 

898
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,200
spend cutting? 
You shouldn't need more than 

899
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,500
that if you lean both phases. 
So and optimal cut phases, then 

900
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:02,900
you should spend the vast 
majority of the are bulking and 

901
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:05,300
that's a win-win, right? 
Because you can eat more, you 

902
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:08,500
feel better? 
Training goes better. 

903
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,500
So you can basically Work Hard 
Play Hard during those phases, 

904
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,000
and I use can still remain 
almost as lean. 

905
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:18,100
I must say it's refreshing to 
talk to you because so many 

906
00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:22,100
people Don't know this and they 
don't implement it and like I'm 

907
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:23,500
having to shout it from the 
rooftops. 

908
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:25,400
You know, you got to spend more 
time in a building phase of 

909
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,200
always try to tell people at 
least budget, like a three to 

910
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,500
one ratio 3 time three times as 
much time, spent in a building 

911
00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:33,800
phase. 
So many people compete every 

912
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,300
year even every six months, or 
so. 

913
00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:38,100
And if you're spending for six 
months, dieting down for a show,

914
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:40,300
and then a few months, reversing
out of that to get to a normal 

915
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:43,600
Baseline, you can't possibly be 
having a productive offseason. 

916
00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:46,800
So giving yourself that 75% time
in the building phase is going 

917
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,100
to be key. 
Regardless of the And how long 

918
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:51,700
you've been training. 
I think that's just going to be 

919
00:48:51,707 --> 00:48:52,900
Paramount no matter what you're 
doing. 

920
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,800
Definitely I think even these 
days if you have to Pro level 

921
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,000
conditioning, if you do 
bodybuilding and stuff like 

922
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,600
maybe have a bit more leeway 
with bikini wellness and type, 

923
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,500
but if you really Pro level 
bodybuilding, then many contests

924
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:07,200
phase, many kinds of prayer 
phases. 

925
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,700
Even if you start out pretty 
lean, end up being like six 

926
00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:12,800
months sometimes longer. 
So then yeah, that really 

927
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,100
doesn't leave much time for 
successful muscle growth. 

928
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,300
I do want to ask you, you said 
earlier that, you don't do. 

929
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:22,000
Low carb packaging approach in a
building phase is that more so 

930
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,800
just preference. 
Like not able to get as many 

931
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,200
calories in or what's the tip on
it? 

932
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,300
Purely practical, like I said, 
it's the the points becomes if 

933
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:34,700
you want to stay key do but your
fat intake is starts to exceed 

934
00:49:34,700 --> 00:49:38,600
your protein intake. 
Then you have to start consuming

935
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,800
like pure fat sources and that 
just, I find it needless 

936
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,100
restrictive because I don't 
notice much difference between 

937
00:49:45,100 --> 00:49:51,000
high fat and key do so Also some
research now showing that which 

938
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,600
I think is fully mediated by the
difficulty in consuming enough 

939
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:59,300
food that people generally even 
when they intends to have the 

940
00:49:59,300 --> 00:50:02,200
same energy intake, they don't 
gain as much muscle on the key 

941
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,400
to approaches, but that's 
because the Gita was basically 

942
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,000
to effective at curbing their 
appetite and restricting their 

943
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,900
energy intake. 
So when you look at the energy 

944
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:11,400
intake, you see it, they just 
don't have the same energy and 

945
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,400
sake. 
Hmm, which means that if you, if

946
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,800
you can do it, I think it's 
perfectly viable. 

947
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,700
I don't think there's any 
problem with In Quito bilking, 

948
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:23,100
but for a lot of people, it's 
just restrictive. 

949
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:25,100
Catch? 
Yeah, that's what I do. 

950
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:28,400
I do a keto bulking phase, but 
it's, you have to be very 

951
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:29,900
intentional with the food you're
eating for sure. 

952
00:50:29,900 --> 00:50:32,500
Because if you just allow 
yourself to eat intuitively, it 

953
00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:34,900
would be much harder to get 
enough calories and to be at a 

954
00:50:34,908 --> 00:50:37,200
significant Surplus. 
Yeah. 

955
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,400
And it's also worth noting that 
I have a very adaptive 

956
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,500
metabolism. 
So, my bulky phases are 44,000, 

957
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:48,100
plus calories, sometimes going 
up to 5000 and, you know, that 

958
00:50:48,100 --> 00:50:49,600
that becomes. 
Difficult. 

959
00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:52,000
I don't drink. 
You know, there's only so much 

960
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,900
for all of our like a stomach. 
Yeah, totally. 

961
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:57,600
Have you, have you done any 
research on stearic acid? 

962
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,800
Not really. 
That's a topic that that's 

963
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:04,100
gaining a little bit of momentum
here in the different ketogenic 

964
00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:08,200
circles for its, you know, 
supposed effects on basically, 

965
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,600
making the fat cell themselves, 
more insulin sensitive or 

966
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,400
insulin resistant. 
I believe is what the research 

967
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,000
is showing but at the location 
of the fan. 

968
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,000
So it's so. 
So I'm curious to dive more into

969
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,200
that, but I think that's still 
pretty, pretty new in 

970
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,100
development there. 
Yeah, I'm generally generally 

971
00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:27,900
skeptical of those kind of 
theories because the thing with 

972
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:31,100
these insulin, sensitivity 
theories, they generally haven't

973
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:33,800
panned out much. 
And also think if you are, if 

974
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,800
you're already on a high fat 
diet and then your insulin 

975
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,300
sensitivity should already be 
good, like you don't suffer from

976
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:43,600
carbon tolerance generally so 
does it make much sense to 

977
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,000
really focus on like one 
specific type of fatty acid? 

978
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,500
I think 40, Mega freeze, you do 
want to cover that with your W. 

979
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:52,400
Overall fatty acid balances is 
healthy. 

980
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:56,300
Then In pretty much all the 
beneficial fatty acids and it 

981
00:51:56,300 --> 00:51:59,100
might not be right. 
See, I have a hard time seeing 

982
00:51:59,300 --> 00:52:01,900
how you specifically want more 
of one of the others, you know, 

983
00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:05,800
if you're getting 40-plus, 
percent fat, intake from good 

984
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,800
sources, Then I think you're 
gonna be pretty much covered. 

985
00:52:09,900 --> 00:52:11,400
Yeah, makes sense. 
Makes sense. 

986
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,500
I'd love to kind of spend the 
last little bit here. 

987
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:16,000
Talking about your book, man. 
You just publish that a few 

988
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,900
weeks ago, right? 
Yep. 

989
00:52:17,900 --> 00:52:24,000
And just today, launched the 
ebooks ebook versions so that's 

990
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,100
feedback. 
So far has been great. 

991
00:52:25,100 --> 00:52:29,700
So yeah, it's a bit more. 
It's not my usual or kind of 

992
00:52:29,700 --> 00:52:31,700
hardcore fat loss. 
Muscle growth topics. 

993
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,400
It's about the science of 
self-control productivity, died,

994
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,400
adherence and motivation. 
And also how to make your 

995
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,300
workouts best effortful. 
So it's a bit more brought 

996
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:44,600
Scopes, it's all about the 
mindset. 

997
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,000
I'm assuming which is pretty 
much the main, the main driving 

998
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,400
factor for success with 
anything. 

999
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:52,600
Yeah, I go into a lot of 
research on mindset and how to 

1000
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,500
think about things but I try to 
make it very concrete and 

1001
00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:59,100
practical because honestly, I 
kind of the test most self-help 

1002
00:52:59,100 --> 00:53:02,900
books, you know, the idea of 
where they just go into, they 

1003
00:53:02,900 --> 00:53:04,500
don't really give you practical 
advice. 

1004
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:06,500
Like you read the whole book. 
And you think, okay? 

1005
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:09,900
That all make that It all made 
sense and sounds good, but what 

1006
00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:11,600
am I really supposed to do 
differently? 

1007
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,000
So, I made sure that every 
chapter and actually the book is

1008
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,300
called 50 free tips to improve 
your productivity that adapt. 

1009
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:22,700
So, I have 53 tips with a lot of
sub tips. 

1010
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:24,100
So in the end, it's about 100 
steps. 

1011
00:53:24,100 --> 00:53:27,700
Probably there are really 
concrete like these are the 

1012
00:53:27,700 --> 00:53:29,300
apps. 
I recommend for productivity 

1013
00:53:29,300 --> 00:53:31,300
management. 
For example, or this is how I 

1014
00:53:31,300 --> 00:53:33,000
recommend you set up your 
grocery list. 

1015
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,200
Like I go into these things and 
they actually matter you see in 

1016
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,200
research, this is how I 
recommend you. 

1017
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,400
Set up your to-do list. 
This is how I recommend you get 

1018
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,100
started on a project. 
So I think it's really important

1019
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:47,000
to tell people exactly what they
need to do because that the 

1020
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,400
concreteness and the 
specificity. 

1021
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:51,400
That's what most people act, 
like they know what to do. 

1022
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,300
Like quit smoking, doesn't help 
anyone. 

1023
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,900
But when you tell them exactly 
how to form implementation, 

1024
00:53:56,900 --> 00:53:59,800
intentions to use nicotine gum. 
Those kind of things that 

1025
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,300
actually helps, I will 
definitely be getting this book,

1026
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:04,000
then because I'm right there 
with you. 

1027
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,200
So many self-help books, you 
read one, you read them all and 

1028
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:10,300
and they're just not any 
actionable takeaways from it. 

1029
00:54:10,300 --> 00:54:13,000
Remember I was when I first got 
in the business, I was reading 

1030
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,200
business books, left and right. 
They all seem to be pretty much 

1031
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,800
the same thing, same concept. 
And then I read the 4-Hour 

1032
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,100
workweek by Tim Ferriss. 
And there was just so many 

1033
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:22,500
actionable pieces of information
that I could take with it and 

1034
00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:25,400
just directly apply. 
So that kind of layout is much 

1035
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,400
more conducive to making, you 
know, improve and progress. 

1036
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,900
Any given field. 
I think I'd say my book is very 

1037
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,300
inspired by. 
Tim Ferriss work, especially the

1038
00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:36,500
4-Hour workweek. 
I think it's the more. 

1039
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,000
I mean, I'm More towards the 
evidence and stuff. 

1040
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:42,700
Bit more scientific Down to 
Earth but you can you can 

1041
00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:46,200
definitely get a Tim Ferriss. 
Kind of vibe from my book. 

1042
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,000
I think in the sense that I 
discover a lot of Niche and 

1043
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,700
controversial topics but I also 
make sure to really give those 

1044
00:54:52,700 --> 00:54:56,100
concrete tips writing style. 
Probably is also similar. 

1045
00:54:56,100 --> 00:54:59,900
I have a bit less fluff in there
a lot less probably but yeah, 

1046
00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:02,000
I'm was a big fan. 
That's one of the reasons I 

1047
00:55:02,008 --> 00:55:03,900
became a digital Nomad team 
first work. 

1048
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,300
Well, then I'm assuming you 
probably read his book or not 

1049
00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:08,800
his book but his Recommended 
book vagabonding. 

1050
00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:12,400
Yeah, it's a skin Freud, 
actually, it's all my reading 

1051
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,600
list, nice. 
But I've read so much on digital

1052
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:22,100
Nomad again, stuff that kinda 
put off now by the by Decca 

1053
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:25,500
direction. 
Would, let me do you use 

1054
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:27,900
traveling frequently? 
Now, is that pretty much a 

1055
00:55:27,900 --> 00:55:31,100
chapter in your life that is has
moved on from that, you moved on

1056
00:55:31,100 --> 00:55:34,400
from my, what is the, what is 
the the drive to travel? 

1057
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:39,300
Like you have I think it's just 
nice to base my philosophy in 

1058
00:55:39,308 --> 00:55:43,500
life is to have a lot of 
experiences and I think research

1059
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:45,700
generally finds that people 
invest too much in material 

1060
00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:47,200
goods and too little and 
experiences. 

1061
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,500
So it's a big philosophy part of
my life and keep to herself, 

1062
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:54,900
improvements and maximal 
happiness. 

1063
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,400
But these days with coronavirus,
have course, a bit a bit 

1064
00:55:59,408 --> 00:56:01,300
different than normal. 
It's normally its. 

1065
00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:03,900
Oh, where can I go and what kind
of places do I still want to 

1066
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:05,800
visit? 
And now it's more. 

1067
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:07,800
Can I go? 
Mmm. 

1068
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,900
Yeah and well. 
We are exhibited them. 

1069
00:56:11,100 --> 00:56:15,100
Currently in Sao Paulo Brazil, 
present go yep. 

1070
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:18,400
Going to stay here for about one
more month than I'm probably 

1071
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:23,100
going to or I'll have speaking 
engagements in October in Miami 

1072
00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:26,300
and then in the Netherlands in 
November and then maybe in Italy

1073
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:29,900
later, of course, open and 
coronavirus pants. 

1074
00:56:30,100 --> 00:56:35,400
So our to plan these days said 
he have a place that you call 

1075
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,500
home or is it pretty much 
wherever your hand is? 

1076
00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:40,400
Yeah. 
It's I was I gonna say exactly 

1077
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,400
that wherever I lay my hat which
I don't have by the way. 

1078
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,500
That's cool though man. 
I feel like so many people look 

1079
00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:49,900
at traveling and Tim Ferriss is 
written by this extensively but 

1080
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,700
so many people view traveling as
this, you know this lifestyle 

1081
00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:58,600
for the ultra rich as he calls 
it and it's cool to realize that

1082
00:56:58,900 --> 00:57:01,500
people can have these 
experiences at a fraction of the

1083
00:57:01,508 --> 00:57:04,900
cost of they would assume and 
it's just I mean those 

1084
00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:06,900
experiences are what life is all
about. 

1085
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:08,300
So it's awesome to see you 
living that out. 

1086
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:10,600
They nothing. 
I think so. 

1087
00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:15,000
I think it's as we nice. 
I'm think I'm really fortunate 

1088
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,900
to have to be able to live the 
life that I do know. 

1089
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:19,800
That's awesome man. 
Well, I considering have a hole 

1090
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,300
in the podcast for the about 
traveling, but I want to be 

1091
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:24,900
respectful of your time. 
So where can people go to find 

1092
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:25,800
out? 
More about you brother. 

1093
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,600
Matter when someone's.com, 
you'll find everything there 

1094
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,400
probably the best way. 
If you are new to my work is to 

1095
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,300
if you go to bed on 
someone's.com you'll find an 

1096
00:57:36,300 --> 00:57:38,700
email subscribe button or better
and some stuff come /. 

1097
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:42,200
Subscribe can also do that then 
you get a free email course. 

1098
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,000
You get sort of a tour of my 
most popular contents and I 

1099
00:57:45,008 --> 00:57:47,900
think that people generally like
the most you gotta get it all 

1100
00:57:47,908 --> 00:57:51,700
delivered into your inbox. 
The nice introduction. 

1101
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,100
Awesome, awesome. 
Well, I will certainly link that

1102
00:57:54,100 --> 00:57:56,000
to that. 
I'll be personally purchasing 

1103
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,600
your book and reading that 
everything that you said thus 

1104
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,700
far today I'm in complete 
agreement to and you are very 

1105
00:58:01,700 --> 00:58:03,700
fascinating individual. 
So I can't thank you enough for 

1106
00:58:03,700 --> 00:58:04,900
taking the time to speak with 
me. 

1107
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,900
Thank you very much. 
My pleasure have a good one.