What's going on, ladies and gents Robert Sykes kito's
Savage.com. And today I have taste sweat on
the line. I'm a super excited by this
conversation because he is vegan and I'm expecting to learn a lot
today. How are you, man?
Good, good man. Thanks for having me absolutely
brother. Absolutely.
So give the audience a little little brief bio.
Kind of own who you are, what got you in Aikido space.
And and and why you're vegan man, I've seen your
transformation pictures at loans speaks.
Pretty high volumes there. Yes sir.
Yes, sir. So just a quick story about me.
I raised not so not so good, diet ended up being about 312
pounds at 15, was, it wasn't fun at all, because I also wasn't
63, I'm 63 now, but I was about 59, then, So I didn't look well.
So I just had to see, you know, I started studying because I had
diabetes as well. I had heart disease, high blood
pressure. I mean, you name it and I just
felt like I was going to die at 15 meter.
So I started studying, and before, you know it I came into,
of course the vegan lifestyle and I didn't know what I was
doing. I was winging it.
So, you know, I eat a lot of vegetables, nuts seeds, trying
to get my Protein ended up losing over. 120 pounds was my
pick, the largest that I end up losing, and before you knew it,
I went ahead and got certified in trician.
I got certified in holistic, practitioner work and I just
made a whole lifestyle out of it.
So, let me, let me back up a little bit.
Here. You were 15 years old, and you
were diagnosed that you went to the doctor, and they diagnose
you with that babies at 15. Yes, sir.
Time to man.
It's gonna be like a wake-up call.
What are you like your folks saying, like, what's your, what
was the whole family? Like I have that affect things.
Oh, of course. I was like, anybody, you know,
with any diet change to your tradition, if you will, it's
going to be a little lag, you know.
Or it's going to be a little, you know, bite back or fight
back from your family. And I had that my family, my
friends, everybody thought I was crazy at the time, you know, I
come from, I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, born, and Raised
here. And it I wasn't necessarily from
an area that where we cared about health.
So me just carrying a gallon of water around to make sure I stay
hydrated with it looked awkward. So so me also, you know, not
eating meat and just kind of not doing any fast foods.
It was weird and my family just, I mean they hated it but you
know, as they saw the results come, they saw my skin clear up
because I had horrible eggs. As well.
They saw the transformation, they kind of started to jump on
the bandwagon with it. So I made it a cool thing and
now everybody's kind of doing it.
What was like a typical day of eating for you before you
started, you know, focus it on your health like when you were
315 pounds and just eating all kinds of food.
What was like, the standard a beating for you, then?
Oh, man. So I was, I was pretty much
raised an athlete, I love sports, so I always had athletes
It's, I guess you can say that eating habits.
So I ate a lot of just fast food, McDonald's Burger, King
you name it. If it was a fast food and it was
convenient because my mom she's a single mother.
She had two boys and we were in multiple Sports so there wasn't
a lot of time to cook because she was taxi in us around to you
know, each different practice. It just didn't work so we would
do what was available, which was Jack.
The Box, some type of fast food. So that was literally, my
everyday food. I was a junk food key, man.
How long did it take you to? Like, put on that way, like, it
was a pretty quick or like your metabolism slowed down and eat
specific point, or just like a gradual progression, when you
were, you know, in the single digits.
Yeah, I say it was over a five-year period because when
you I don't know, if anybody out there is really familiar with it
but when you're gaining weight, you don't necessarily know.
You're getting bigger until it hits.
Its kind of like a I don't know, it's like a lag time.
So the first 23 years I'm gaining weight.
I don't realize that I'm getting better.
It just all of a sudden happens or somebody tells you hey you've
put on some weight but until then you really don't know.
Over five years is when it happened but I didn't realize it
was happening until I actually hit that point of like the
fourth year make and it's kind of crazy like in that timeframe
specifically, man. I mean, I look at my brother and
my brother used to be shorter than me and he was putting on a
bunch of weight and kind of like chubby and everybody just
assumed that he was gonna have a growth spurt.
And then he did have a growth spurt and now he's like much
taller than me and just incredibly skinny.
So like there on that childhood window of time you're like, oh,
he's just having a gross Birdsall going to go up from
there but it's easy to kind of skew that That with no, he's
actually putting on some unnecessary body fat that's like
not healthy. Exactly.
And that, to be honest, that's
kind of what was happening because I play football and
basketball. And I'll at the time I was being
pushed towards football more because I was gaining weight.
So it was just oh, he's getting big because he, you know, he
needs this wait for football, he's a linebacker, he needs to
be bigger, and they were encouraging the weight gain and
so it You know, even when it was noticeable, people didn't really
try to stop it because I was a football player, right?
Right? Yeah.
It makes sense to make sense. What was?
So, I guess the doctor visit when you were diagnosed with the
diamonds that was like, the big. Aha moment of like, okay, this
is actually not contributing to My overall success.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And to be honest, I've always been, I guess it's the athletic
victim mentality. I've always been one of those
people who wants to be the best at whatever he's doing, so It
carried over into my health. So when I went to the doctor and
I, you know, I got the bad news, it was kind of like, okay, I
can't be the best at, you know, football basketball with
diabetes. I can't be the best and I mean,
just being a kid. I can't be a good kid with
diabetes. Especially if I have to start
taking different medications and it just didn't work.
So I that's what really sparked that transformation for me to
even want to get started on that jerk.
And when you decided to, you know, Up the food, you went
immediately towards vegan or did you kind of just try and clean
up food and just haven't have meats, cause you're still eating
meats and stuff. Prior to that, right?
Like Jack-in-the-Box thinking, like a burger or something.
Yeah, man, it was definitely a hard transition.
I did not, I did not go cold turkey.
And as a matter of fact, I struggle for years you know, and
I guess it's a quote unquote struggle.
I was doing a lot of salmon. I started just kind of cleaning
up the me. Meats that I was, you know, that
I would eat. And it just so happened to lead
me down the vegan path. But even when I tried to
quote-unquote go vegan, I was still bouncing in and out,
because it was around me, you know, as you only have so much
wiggle room as a kid as far as what you're going to eat.
And even at 17, 18, I'm still having to eat, you know, some of
the meats and things like that at this time.
So it took me years to actually get out of eating meat and into
a In lifestyle, in, where did the key to come to the plate?
Because you probably weren't, you know, he do vegan initially.
That's kind of just been a progression over the years.
Right? Exactly.
And, and this is something that a lot of vegans, I'm not
necessarily super popular with many vegans because I don't, I'm
not necessarily the, I guess you can say that ethical guy.
I Did It For My Health to be honest.
And with that being said, I don't have any loyalty anywhere
I do it works. For me, that makes sense.
And where the weather vegan. Keto part came in is through the
Journey of going into keto or going into vegan.
Scuse me. I had to make sure I was getting
protein because that was like the number-one thing where you
going to get protein. So, I was doing a lot of nuts
and seeds and it just so happened that before I even knew
what key do was, I was already doing it because everything was
pretty much nuts seeds and vegetables.
You know, and I would do avocado every now and then I loved
olives, which I still do. So I was pretty much doing a
keto diet back then. For is, you know, as far as
veganism goes, I just didn't realize, and once I got a little
more popular into the vegan Community, people were looking
at my diet and they're going, why aren't you eating fruit?
Why aren't you eating? You know, there was this, vegan
is almost like a gang and if you don't do what vegans do then you
kind of like eggs out and I just Just, you know, I gave in for a
while and I said, okay, well let me try these carbs.
Let me try eating a high fruit or 80-10-10 where it's 80
percent coming from carbs and I got right back fat like
seriously, I gained weight on a vegan diet.
So this is kind of where the transition back to a vegan, keto
diet came because I knew I was already doing that.
It just now it's an, it has a name to it.
I just didn't know whose keto back then because I look at, you
know, a lot of the, the vegan foods out there and A lot of
them just have you know like stuff that would definitely not
be qualified for Kayla. There's just a ton of carbs in
there. A lot of The Binding factors,
you know, could raise insulin. So it's not really conducive to
Quito like a lot of the pre-made vegan meals specifically, but if
you were to just go like the with the vegetables and like the
the fats I can definitely say your ratios with Wanda.
As such the you did you like test your blood threaded or you
kind of just doing it more instinctively?
Initially and let me just say this yeah, you're right man,
there's a lot of processed crap in the vegan world.
It's it kind of pisses me off but let's be honest, man,
starting out. No I didn't test it but when I
put two and two together and by this time, you know, I'm already
certified as a nutritionist. I'm already, you know, I'm in
it, I have the education and I start, you know, now that I'm
back to the high fat, high carb at this period of time.
I do start. I'm sorry high fat, low carb.
I do start to test my ketones and I do start to and I do blood
ketones because I'm not a big believer in urine because it
kind of it Withers off after the first week or so.
So I started testing and I took it to my Instagram to show
people that you could do vegan keto, and pull some pretty big,
you know, some pretty big results and numbers, you know, I
average 1.0 1.5 mmol hours a day and that's all vegetables, some
nuts. And some seeds.
And, you know, a little avocado here and there and it pretty
much works for me. Do you track your Macros or you
just kind of go with what, you know, works like?
Do you have any idea what your grams of protein fat and carbs
come in at, on average? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I track a lot simply because first of all, I like to do self
studies or self testing because I'm not not the biggest fan of
doctor. I guess you can say, when they
run the test of the studies. And you know, it's always Is to
me. So I'd like to do my own tests
and studies for myself and my clients.
So I tracking everything from the top to the bottom.
So what's a was it break down like on an average day for you?
Like how many grams of what your macro pie chart look like?
Yeah so on average, I'm going to pull about.
I say, 70 75 % of my calories are going to come from fats, my
protein, believe it or not, and I heard you.
Talk about this when you were doing contest prep, I don't get
a lot of protein man. Honestly, I'd say maybe 75 to
100 grams a day of protein, is all I get.
And just, you know, for the record I'm maintaining about 200
9:45. Wait, I'm pretty solid.
So it works for me and then the cars believe it or not a higher
than traditional Quito. Most of you know people try to
keep it under 50 grams. I've noticed that I can I can
keep pretty much 1.0 1.5 million molars eating about 150 grams of
carbs and that's coming from vegetables.
Yeah. It's umm like your car.
I mean what's the breakdown of that?
Look like from some fiber versus net carbs.
Fibers pretty high. So if I get 150 grams of carbs,
um I'm guaranteed to get about 80 to maybe even 100 grams.
Fiber. So that, that's pretty much how
that buffers out. So what's a typical day of
eating? Look like, man.
Like what was if you were just, you know, from the time you wake
up, to time to go to bed, like, what is your meal, timing?
And what are those most consistent?
Because I'm curious to see how like, you know, from you being
like a performance athlete, how getting such a high intake of
vegetation affects your performance and just kind of
like how you get that in, because I've made, I've had a
few clients that are vegan and I make every client like a sample
meal. Name that matches like the first
weeks macros that I gave them and it's a lot more of a
challenge for someone that's not.
Well, versed in like, you're vegan options to hit macros that
that are vegan friendly, right? Yeah.
And it can be a challenge especially for, you know, women
versus men, I'm always having to manipulate some things for, you
know, different races. Or, you know, I notice a lot of
differences, you know, based on the race that gender things like
that, but for me, too, Uncle day, I'm going too fast,
regardless. I fast pretty much every day.
As a matter of fact, right now, I'm on a 48-hour faxed, it just
works for me. My cognitive ability is much
better. And I perform better to be
honest, you know, I really feel like this euphoric feeling when
I fast and I've been doing this for years.
So I'll usually on a typical day.
I usually fast for about 20 hours.
That's just usually a typical day and then I just eat until
I'm the drinks or anything. I'll do a little water every so
often, maybe I'll do some, you know, green tea, something that
sort, but I don't do a lot of caffeine.
I don't do coffee. So it's just fasting.
And, you know, maybe a couple, I don't know, 64 ounces of water
before I eat, you know, within that 2020 our time frame and
then, and this is mostly because I'm super busy.
I'm sure you see how I do on Instagram, things like that.
I like to answer all of my clients back.
I like to answer DM Zone. Instagram.
So, I'm always running and not to mention.
I'm about to get married, so I'm going through planning the
wedding, which is in a week. So it's just a lot of stuff
going on. Oh, man, so fast and just works
for me. And then once I sit down and
eat, I usually make this as I call them to my sacred time
basically and I turned my phone over, nobody gets access to me
and I'll just sit and eat until I'm full.
So that will usually look like I'll do about Out a jar or two
of Olives which is about normally it gets me about 350 to
about 700 Grand, 700 calories, that's kind of like my starter.
So once I finish finish, you know, nibbling on my olives,
I'll give it about, I don't know, 10, 20 minutes.
And then I'll go in and maybe have a half a head of cabbage.
I eat a lot of cabbage. I love my cabbage and I'll maybe
whip up about to sometimes even three if I'm really hungry.
I whip up about. Three avocados, man.
And I throw, I throw a little salsa over the avocados and I'll
eat that with my half a head of cabbage and then, I don't know,
to finish it off. Maybe you know I'm craving
something sweet. Or maybe I just want a little
something to top that off. And I'll maybe go eat.
I like my fat bombs, I'm gonna, it's not, I'm not affiliated
with them anyway, but I love the f-bombs.
Jimmy more talks about him a lot.
I'll do one of those f-bombs. Be and just kind of finish it
off. Gives me a good sweet, salty,
taste, you know, in the day of eating.
So that's, that's pretty much you're getting on your protein
from a me like that. Just like all those the avocado,
the cabbage and like the nut Butters.
Yeah, a lot of times and sometimes, you know, every now
and then I'll do a vegan protein shake.
If I want to go, you know, higher, I play with my protein
just to see what I can get away with.
So, I've been as low as 20 grams of protein in a day.
Um, and then I go back up to sometimes, you know, how I try
to arrange around 70 to 100 grams.
And when I go that high, I'm definitely going to do some type
of, I don't know, protein, shake or maybe I'll do a sky, like a
mock meat type of, it's called him pesos made from hemp seeds
and peanuts and him pay has tremendous amount of protein.
I think it's 40 grams of protein per package, so I'll Is it maybe
eat a thing of, you know, him pay with my cabbage and my
avocado and that gets me a good amount of protein as well.
You know, one of the things that I've looked at with like, a lot
of the vegan protein sources, is a lot of them leverage, you
know, soy. And then when you start
incorporating soy, you have to, kind of release traditional
Dogma states. That, you know, that is going to
give you a surplus in estrogen, which isn't really going to be
optimal from like a performance standpoint and building muscle.
Have you kind of dug into that and can you Be gone that much.
Yes, absolutely be a big, big, big thing that I noticed with
soy. First of all, it doesn't work
for me. I have to go and, you know, kind
of separate. Because a lot of people love
this soil when it comes to this vegan lifestyle.
But I'm not a big fan of it for a few reasons, just to kind of
give them a little overview. I've been training now and
working with clients now for over almost 12 years and at one
point in time, When a lot of women would come into my
program, I know it's they usually have some type of
hormone issues and usually that's associated with or a lot
of times they have issues with their menstrual cycle, which is
associated with the hormones. So I would take them certain
places to, you know, heal or fix the issues.
They're having with their menstrual cycle and they would
come back to me. And this has happened, I
probably work with 1500 clients by now.
And this was with, huh? Dress of women.
Most of them would ask me. Hey, is it okay?
If I go back to my to my regular diet, you know?
And I say, well, let's slowly add things in.
So we know what's, you know, doing what what's causing what?
So, we would start with soy, because that was the big thing
that I wanted to see. So I would always start back,
introducing soy. And it was almost every time I
would say 90% of the time, as soon as they were introduced soy
back into their diets, their menstrual cycles will go back
crazy, it would be painful. Painful, again, it would.
And I mean, they would break out and this would let me know that.
Okay, we have an issue with switch with soy and estrogen
here, and it doesn't work for me and it's definitely not working
for them. So, at that point, I just exiled
soy. I don't do it, I don't suggest
it. So that's just my perspective
from it. No, that makes a lot of sense,
man. I've always kind of gravitated
away from it. You know, there's been like so
many, you know, research articles, some in favor of soy,
some Against it. But I just a simple concept of,
you know, elevated estrogen. And if so, it can in turn do
that, I just doesn't make sense to me as a bodybuilder.
Trying to minimize my estrogen to be incorporating, a whole
bunch of soy to my diet, exactly exactly.
What other what other Foods mean like are there any other kind
of, you know, red flags that you see a lot in the the vegan diets
that that may be lesser known that people should stay away
from you man. I'm noticing a lot of there's
like this race to see who can authenticate or not authenticate
but who can replicate the best veggie burger or the best you
know, mock meat chickens? And you know, I'm not a big fan
period of most of the the mock meats and it's simply because
it's a lot of you see, a lot of rancid oils going into some of
these mock meats and you just see a lot of Not so good
practices that are happening to I guess, be the first one to
Market to have that good tasting meat that you notice the quality
of what, you know the ingredients are made up of, it's
not that good. So I usually teach, you know,
until a lot of my clients to one stick to minimally processed
foods so you know, look for anything that spoils and you
know, matter of the week or two. If it doesn't spoil in a week or
two, then 9 times out of 10. It's not going to be so well for
so of course that you know fruits vegetables that usually
kind of fits into that. And of course, when I say fruits
a lot of people don't realize that olives avocados, all of
these things. So this is where I but I just
don't do anything that has over you know five to maybe on a
cheat day. I'll do more than ten
ingredients if it has more than 10 ingredients, I'm telling my
clients, I'm telling my social media following Stay away from
because it's not good. Yeah, definitely good man.
There's like I've turned the package over and seeing a
freaking essay on some of those labeling and it's just like I'm
putting that much food in my mouth after ingredients.
I can't even pronounce. There's just there's just a
disconnect there. It's not worth it.
Right? Exactly.
And you know, a lot of people
there, they're searching for because I get a lot of clients
or people who are just interested in a vegan lifestyle.
But they want to do, you know, keto.
A lot of people are on Opting out for the more process way of
doing Quito. So I see a lot of mock meats
and, you know, they'll throw out the vegetables and then they'll
go for some type of mock cheese. So they go mock meat, my cheese,
all I'm keto. And I said, well, that's that's
not going to work because you need some type of nutrition in
there, right? Right exactly, man, those those
Munchies is I have not found a vegan cheese that I like, but I
will say this, though, those kite Hill Yogurt and cream
cheese is, have you ever had those?
Oh yeah, that The kite. He'll probably one of the best
that you can choose from and the other cheeses aren't really
good. There's one that I have found
that probably Takes the Cake on all of it and it's, it's called
me. Yoko's, she's based out of
California, really good. All of the other cheeses, they
don't melt, they're chewy there. I mean, they just don't work.
Yeah. I bought one is like an almond
base cheese because it's wanted to, you know, try and see what
it tastes like. It was like eating The sponge
man. Hmm, yeah, that's how most of
them taste. You're not missing anything on
that one. I will say that.
And to be honest with you on my way to the vegan lifestyle, I
was vegetarian for two of those years because I couldn't get rid
of the cheese and I couldn't find a replacement for, but I
did realize that was one of the biggest inflammation drivers in
me. So, I had to let go of because I
notice my knees would flare up and I would also Have I had
eczema really bad eczema and I would get flare-ups with my
Eczema. Every time I had dear, that was
the only reason I got rid of it because it was messing with my
my inflammation, but I loved Cheese look.
So what's the the hierarchy of, you know, kind of eliminating
the meats, I guess. A pescatarian is the lowest
level because those that allows for eggs, dairy and fish.
Right? Yes.
So you know you pescetarians you going to do eggs, dairy fish.
Like you said, some people even may even throw it, like a
chicken, some type of file in there.
And then you go up to the next level where it's kind of like
they called it. The UVA lacto-vegetarian where
they pretty much just do dairy and eggs and then you have
traditional vegetarian where you may do one of the other which
let me just say go on the record to say this vegetarian used to
be in the definition of a vegetarian used to be herbivore.
We're now kind of making all of these new ways of doing it.
So, now vegetarian means something different.
And then to go vegan, if you come in the vegan Community,
they want you to say plant-based.
If you're not for the animals, which I don't know how I feel
about that. I think it's crazy.
So for, in my case I will be considered plant-based because
I'm not really. No, I love animals.
I get it but I'm not really active.
I'm not an activist for the ethical side.
So, they would actually want me to say that.
I'm more of a plant-based eater versus a vegan because a vegan
is considered a lifestyle. Wow, I did not even know that,
so it bring up to speed, man. Like I do not know I'm not
familiar with, you know, the whole, the culture in the, the
vegan space per se. Because I mean, you definitely
get, you know, the animal rights in the ethics involved, for
sure, which I can appreciate, you know, I appreciate respect
their beliefs. But you, you know, if you're not
in it for an ethical reason, for instance, of what keeps you from
eating, you know, like Sam and now you just noticed that that
doesn't have any advantageous effect for you, yeah, man,
honestly, there's a few is a few reasons when I, when I did eat
meat, what I notice is that I was at, I was a weird kid, I
could not eat it by itself if that makes sense.
I always had to have a french fry with or a bunch of ketchup
or saw Sauce or, you know, even with a steak, I would have to
drown it in, you know, steak sauce.
It was never appealing to me by itself and that was just a
simple process of elimination for me.
You know, I thought to myself. Okay.
Why can't you eat this? Well, your body doesn't actually
want. It is just not craving.
So I kind of follow intuitively. I follow my body with a lot of
these things so that was one thing.
So I for a while I was, you know, a lot of eating a lot of
fish and even then I would have to With salmon, I would make
this glaze that had you know, Grey Poupon and you know brown
sugar which all of that added stuff, it just does, you know,
it does nothing for you. So at that point I realized I
just don't like me. Like I really don't like it and
that was a big decider for me. And when I took that perspective
over to the holistic practitioner side that I you
know, I wouldn't hit and got certified in that That.
But I was starting to realize is that a lot of what we consider
to be racist, you know, Caucasian black or
African-American, we have different approaches to our
diets, based on I in session and what I was looking from you know
and that standpoint through my certification, I was taught that
we necessarily came from. We potentially came from and
more vegetable eating type of State, you know, fruit
specialist because it was Topical and that seemed to work
for me. It was just just, hey, I don't
know it clicked. It was something to click and I
just stuck with and I feel great with it.
Even when I did, I've been on pretty much every diet.
But, you know, my clients say 80/10/10, I've done raw vegan,
where I just did all fruit. I got really skinny on that by
the way. So I just tried out each and
every diet to see how it work for me and the plants.
Just It just stuck. And that was just something that
I stuck with. Do you measure the whole bunch
of questions of get going from this?
So what with the whole you know, ancestral?
You know, perspective, what what other Trends did you notice?
Like, you know, like the Caucasian for instance were,
what were they predominantly eating in the past?
And has that compared to African-American that was just
kind of like the, the lineage there.
Yeah, so from what I was taught and when you do a holistic
practitioner work, you kind of have to take a history course.
Like a history lesson because you need to know where a lot of
things. Originated, and based on the
Caucasians most of the Caucasian lineage, they were in colder
climates and a lot of the colder climates would do more, of
course, you know, there, what wasn't much vegetation in a lot
of the colder climates. So they know had to rely on
eating Meats. Eating fatty your foods, which
is why I normally notice. When I get someone who's
Caucasian and into my program, I know that I need to absolutely
take them to her higher fat kind of lower carb approach because
that is definitely going to work for their their genetics and it
always pans out like they their bodies.
Just soak it up and I work with people who are not vegan and it
and it works on both sides. That's what I've come to know
this. I've also noticed that they
usually can get away Caucasians, you can get away my clients with
higher calories. Then someone who's maybe
African-American or a Latin background, we tend to have to.
Like, if I eat too many calories, man, I gain weight
fast and of course, you know, I can have some stem, you know, it
could be because of my background of I call it being
fat Tafe at genetics. But I've noticed that what a lot
of my clients to we eat too many calories.
It does seem to stick with us a little bit easier, so, what are
your calories clock? Looking in at, on average, um,
on a really hard workout day. I make it up to, I don't know
2900, and that's kind of pushing it for me, twenty-nine hundred
calories and my body's kind of like, hey guy, you need to stop.
You know, if I'm just just binging and I just want to go
out and just enjoy myself, I can pack it away and I can put away,
you know, for 4,500 calories, but it does not agree with my
body at all. And I've done phases to see if
It's me just spike in my insulin or spiking my calories too much
or if it's just something that lasts with me.
So I've been on a six-month journey to where I ate that many
calories and it never ended. It never regulated it so it
never worked. I always felt like crap you know
and as soon as I brought it down to 29 hundred calories on a
lower day, I may even go down to 24 23 hundred on body, just
seems more efficient, it just passed a leaner, it just feels
better. What point?
320, 400 still pretty pretty solid amount of food.
I mean, you got people out there that are just like chronically
under eating, you know, sub 1,000 calories.
That's just like asking for disaster, right?
I'm impressed you were able to get, you know, like on a bench
day, 45 hundred plus calories all vegan, baseman like that and
you know what? That would look like, oh yeah,
it can get. It can get pretty high,
especially if you start getting into like these and this is not
keto at all. But if you start getting into a
lot of the vegan restaurants, with, they're throwing veggie
burgers together. And here in Nashville's pretty
big city for veganism, believe in.
And we have so many crazy vegan options here that you can just
go off the rails with like, I mean, insulin coma type thing,
I've seen a veggie burger with vegan bacon surrounded or the
Buns, were vegan donuts and it had vegan Mayo.
Oh, it's ridiculous. To be honest, there's a lot of
the, the oils and stuff, using those kind, like what you were
saying earlier like the rancid fats, and that's all basically,
you know, vegetable base. But like a polyunsaturated fat,
that's not really an optimal fence or.
So it's just basically a ton of information waiting to happen.
Exactly. Exactly.
And this is the, this is one of the biggest things biggest
problems, I see because most like you say most of these, you
know, always are rancid there, you know, rapeseed or canola
oil? It's just it's not good.
And then I get this a lot. People want to know if veganism
is so good. Why are there so many fat
vegans? And I get this question, maybe.
I mean, six times a day at least and that is one of the biggest
reasons. Why?
Because when you come into veganism, it's like it's was
walking through a door of carbs, basically because you drop your
proteins being, you know, the meet you drop your healthier
fats for the most part coming from, you know, maybe a
healthier version of dairy or, you know, some healthier Was a
fruit, you drop all of that and you go directly into this carb
Haven. I mean, it's just so much carbs
and that's why people are vegan and, you know, holding onto a
lot of weight. What do you think about like
the, you know, a lot of people that have had on the podcast
before that, that were vegetarian or were vegan for
quite some time and then they transition to you do based
protocol like the traditional Ketone with meets, they noticed
that, you know, prior to the Position.
They, they were just missing some critical micronutrients.
They just noticed performance, certain the legs.
Everybody seemed to improve initially, probably, because
they stepped away from it. Just a standard American diet.
That's just terrible. And then things started to clean
up with vegan or vegetarian. But after a prolonged period of
that, they started to notice just micronutrient deficiencies.
And then all that seem to be replenished when they transition
to like a key to approach. You think that was just you
know, some basic lack In the group then header.
Or what do you think? Is the reason for that
deficiency? It's a, I think it's all about
the context and you know, what the person was doing?
Because I've seen that a lot, you know, I get a lot of clients
who come to me, who are struggling with that on one on
one point, I do think that everybody is not meant to be
vegan, I will just go on the record for that too.
Everybody is not meant to be vegan.
As a matter of fact, it's probably more people than, you
know, people think that should actually, you know, stay on the
meeting side to be honest. But the people who want to try
it out, what I see. So many times that people are
relying on processed, carbohydrates people go vegan,
they don't know where to start. They don't know what to eat,
majority of the people who I come across their eating pasta,
there is you know, they'll also eat, you know, pasta for lunch
and then I'll have, you know, some type of pasta or rice or,
you know, rice and beans for dinner.
And that's pretty much all they eat.
And I notice this kind of like, you know, it's a break from In
the process meets and the junk food in the standard American
diet. So you get a break and your body
feels better initially. But now you're solely eating,
you know, maybe a little fruit here and there and you eat pasta
and you eat, rice and beans. And that's the whole makeup of
your diet for the next six. Months to a year.
Of course, you're not going to get everything and not only
that, they're not supplementing because they don't know what
they're missing. So you know, your B12, your
vitamin D which most of If not all of us are really lacking in
that, they're not covering those bases, not to mention.
If this diet isn't meant for you, and you actually do need
those meats based on your menu, know, maybe your ancestry or
whatnot, then you definitely are going to have some issues on a
vegan diet. So, I've actually sent some
people back and vegans are going to hate me.
Hopefully, they don't listen to you to your show, but they're
going to hate me when I say this.
But I've actually sent people away from veganism.
Like this is not for you. Go back and eat the meat.
Go get some salmon. Go get some healthier fatty
foods, you know, and do this this way.
Yeah, yeah. Gently you think if, you know,
you actually like the flavor and texture of meat and we're eating
like a traditional key to approach?
Do you think that you need a woman's would improve or do you
think it pretty much be even killer?
Do you think there's any advantage to that?
I don't know, man. You know, that's That's
something I've thought about. If I, you know, if I went back
and ate more protein, maybe I definitely will say this.
If I went back and did more of a meat-based keto, I would
definitely look at getting on stage to be honest, I'd more
might be much easier or better able to compete because, you
know, the protein, things like that, I just don't want to do it
the vegan way because there is going to be a need to do more
process, you know, proteins or, you know, because all we have
really is, you know, What protein shakes you do some
process, you know, vegan meats but I don't I don't really want
to do it that way. So I just stay where I am, you
know, I've done the scans I'm about 14 15 percent body fat at
about 2:15. So I keep a decent, you know,
stature. I'm pretty strong 500, pound
deadlift, you know, 365 squat I would stay pretty strong where I
am but definitely I think if I was to adopt all Go back to
eating, you know, fish and you know, getting some high protein.
I definitely think I could do much better on stage and you
know, that's something I definitely would you think if
you were to just make up that protein get by eating, you know,
a greater quantity of the vegan food, you're eating a
plant-based Foods right now, it would just have too much of a
carb count to be able to, you know, get as lean as you need to
get for steak. Oh, I think it's possible.
Yes. But to be competitive I'm not
sure. I've seen you do it.
And I think based on the macros you were going with, I think it
can be done. It's going to be, I mean, it's
gonna be hard which I mean, I don't take it away from you, you
know, the meat-based itís hard for, you know, even getting down
that link. But, you know, I've heard some
of the macros you were doing to get, you know, you and Danny
Vega. I've heard kind of what you all
are doing and it could be, you know, maybe a little off with
the vegan diet, but we could probably get it close.
And I think it could work to be honest.
I think I could do it and somebody stupid, man.
I think it's totally. Yeah, I mean, it would be a huge
accomplishment man. And I've been thinking about it
myself, just, you know, getting on stage.
Just to say, hey, not only am I vegan, but I'm also key.
Do you know? And just, I mean, that would
just opened everybody's eyes. And just, I don't know, man.
It'd be crazy. Yeah, man, and it combined with
your story. I mean, being 315, you know,
diabetic at 15 years old and now, you know, competing because
I'm asking you look great man. You got Ton of muscle, you get
good shape. I mean if you came in and
competed on stage, I mean that would just kind of complete the
full transformation. Damn it.
I agree. I appreciate that.
I definitely think that's confirmation because it's been
in the back of my mind for, you know, a while.
Now, I guess, one of the biggest reasons why it's been in the
back of my mind because I've been playing with, you know,
kind of testing different diets for years, just to kind of, you
know, tell people, hey, this is what works is what doesn't work.
This is how, you know, you're going to feel on this.
Because a lot of my clients when they kind, I'm sure you get this
to a lot of my clients come in. They are Are torn between, maybe
30, 40, 50 different things on Google, they don't know where to
go, they don't know what works and they want to try it all.
So as a vegan when they come in for me, you know, it's more.
So it's better for me to say, hey, I've done the 80/10/10.
We had this one lady who was really big, they call it the
banana girl, I'm not gonna say any names but you know what I'm
talking about and she I mean she messed up the vegan community at
At large, a lot of people think they can eat 80 grand or 80
percent of their calories from carbs and, and get abs or, you
know, lose weight and people are realizing now that that doesn't
work and that they actually gained 15 20 pounds trying to do
it but there's so much is so much misinformation in this side
of the, of the, you know, Fitness world that I'm just
trying to, you know, correct it and me, you know, working on my
body and taking my body through different, you know.
Jesus, and showing people that that doesn't work, it's really
been helpful. Yeah, man.
I'm glad you said that. I think there's there's so much
to be said for the actual macro ratio break that.
That's one of my biggest gripes with the different types and
philosophies of food. And in that in general, I mean,
you've got like the Paleo community and it's pretty much
just, you know, eat what was ever there in the ancestor of
times. You get, you know, my base, you
have vegan, but the cool thing that Kido does entree to all the
others, is that it puts an emphasis on the actual Michael
ratio break down. So you can, you know, eat
different foods to hit that break down, but when you focus
on that, it really puts an emphasis on, you know, the how
your body is going to be absorbing and metabolically
using those fuels. And and it matters like calorie
obviously is not just a calorie, we know this.
So when you, you know, approach any type of diet, okay?
As long as I fit Within These parameters of what type of food
this is, but don't give any thought to what the you know
ratio of those macronutrients break down to you kind of set
yourself up or two. Right?
I agree. Absolutely agreement.
That that has been a huge part of you know just doing keto not
just for myself. But with my clients it's been
amazing. Just because like you said it,
the focus is the macros and this is kind of what I've been
teaching the vegan Community because up until maybe a couple
months ago when Wilco released his book, the keto Terrian which
is a huge huge step, that was a great Great book.
And I love that he came out with the book because he really said
a lot of things that I've been trying to teach for, I mean
years, but of course, I was one of the only people saying it.
So, we'll go coming out and having that backup of saying,
you know, hey, veganism or vegetarianism can be done Quito,
it was huge. So now, people are actually
focusing on the macros instead of the diet itself because if
you go into the vegan world and you say Quito, First thing that
comes to many vegans Minds is that all you have to eat a lot
of bacon on that diet and it's like know how Miss educated are
you. You know how, how crazy is that,
that you just automatically think that you have to eat a
certain, you know, food type on that diet and me, you know, kind
of introducing keto as a vegan option has shown people.
That is more so about the macros and not, what's in the actual
diet, 100%, man, I hate it. When I hear, you know, I talked
about Quito and people just assume that the best way to do
Quito is just bacon eggs and butter.
And it's like, I mean, I don't even eat that much bacon and
eggs. Like, I write, I do like bacon
eggs, but that's a very, very small percentage of the overall
food that I'm assuming. So, it's a, I mean, with any of
that shit, I'll make sure you get a diverse nutrient pool from
a variety of sources and people can't think that right?
Mmm. Absolutely.
So talk about that gesture, man. I got, I know, you know, with
what the traditional corn are key to approach.
You're not In as much carbs are not getting as much fiber on
average. Like, I even take my clients
down to as low as 10 grams of total carbs, like, in that
contest prep scenario. A lot of people's concern with
that is not get enough fiber to be regular.
Some people are carnivore and they just avoid it entirely and
they seem to have fun digestion. What, what's digestion like?
And how does that change when you're going with a vegan
vertical? It depends on where, of course,
like I said, you know, everything's in context, but for
the most like the Everage person who comes in, usually there, I
mean, just crazy lie in this hike, our space, that's what
mostly what I deal with. So what I noticed usually is
that it's a period that we have to go through to change the
utilization of nutrients because the body is so used to carbs
that it actually I have a lot of people who gag the first time
they start eating fats because the body is trying to push away,
it doesn't want the fat, it wants the carbs, you know,
because it's been running on carbs for how many years Years.
So digestion is usually a little rough for them until we get
through that initial phase. And a lot of times, I actually
take my clients through a three day fast to slingshot them into
ketosis because most people are a lot of people don't know that
fasting helps you to get in ketosis much faster.
So we'll go through a three day fast, which allows their body to
start tapping into the into those natural fats that they
have stored. Those fats that are Colonel and
once we start tapping into that we slowly get into ketosis, I
introduce those Foods back to them.
The same foods that were that was making them gag or, you
know, they couldn't get down or digest or, you know, it was
causing them to have constipation when we come back
out of the three day fast, a lot of times, they are much better.
They're digesting the foods. I checked with my so I have
walkie-talkie access to all of my clients so we, you know, I
give them. Check-ins and say, hey, how's
the digestion going now? Almost every 100 percent of the
time. Pretty much.
They come back and they're like, hey, this is amazing.
Now, my digestive system is great.
I'm feeling like a feeling of euphoria, it's just totally
different. So if we don't do that, I
noticed it. The digestion is just it takes a
lot longer when you're trying to go from high carbs to Quito, but
once they're in it, the digestion is amazing.
Have you had any people that are already keto, kind of falling
like a really low carb. Low fiber approach and then go
vegan and increase their total Barb significantly.
But all from fiber sources like this, are any change in
digestion there that you've noticed.
Yeah, definitely I'd say maybe my last, I say the last six
months I probably had about five people come in who were doing
traditional you know, quote unquote traditional keto,
whether eating some meat based options and then they just want
to try it out. They want to go vegan.
They want to see if they can do it.
And the big difference is that we notice is that one, I hear a
lot of people say that their energy is different and
sometimes it goes one way, sometimes it goes.
And this is kind of how I'm able to tell whether or not they
should stay inside the vegan diet, some people, they kind of
lose their energy, you know, I don't really feel, you know, I
feel like I'm missing something. I get that a lot when they get
the pins and needles would usually is a B12 deficiency or,
you know, or B vitamin overall deficiency.
But You know, they get that, you know, crazy feeling I said,
okay, well let's try adding a little salmon to that and
usually it works. And then I have the other people
who usually go the opposite way, and they're like, oh my gosh,
like I feel much better doing you know much more vegetables
and you know some avocado and olives.
It feels great over here. My skin is great.
You know the ladies you know the menstrual cycles are doing
great. Some you know a lot of people
come to me who have PCOS so you know that starts to improve.
So yeah man it just it depends on It is a context, but I've
seen both app, this is fast. Hey man, I don't know if I could
ever imagine, Love Me. Do, give around, like I said,
the whole texture and taste of meat is like a euphoric thing
for me instead of a bad thing, but I would totally be down to
try like vegan for a month. And just kind of see how my body
responded probably wait until after this 6,000 calories.
A thing that I'm doing for six months because it would be just
too much variables in there. But, yeah, I would, I would
totally give this, not the just see how my body respond, I think
would be fascinating. Because it's just such a, you
know, opposite end of the spectrum from, you know, kind of
what I've done in the past. Yeah, man.
And as always, if you need, got any questions, you need
anything, then we'll chop it up. You know, we can go over some
things to see how you want to do it.
But I really think the space that you're in right now, I
think you're already in a good place to transition.
The reason why I say that is because a lot of my bigger guys
because I've worked with some body builders as well, who try
to go vegan and they want to do it, the carp route, and I
noticed that when you're running on carbs and you try to come
over to vegan diet, you lose a lot of weight.
Because of course if you're not giving your body, the same
amount of carbs you're trying to cut and you start to rely on
protein for, you know, of course, gluconeogenesis you
start to cut in weight a lot quicker.
I've seen it happen so many times, but with you and your
space, your already keto adapted or fat adapted.
So it would just be simply switching the types of food.
You're eating, I don't think you lose Eight as far as, you know,
muscle mass. I think you would maintain it
because you have those ketones being produced already.
So you you're in a good place to make that transition.
Yeah man. I'll definitely give it a shot
like I'll try anything once I think I think this would be
good. I'm excited.
I don't mean to two jars are all of them and it's a lot.
Oh yeah that's just one of my favorites man that's something I
leaned on a lot. I love my eyelids.
That's probably my favorite food right now.
Olives and pumpkin seeds. I do love this miles and
pumpkins. Dad.
So I can then got here yogurt, man, I can make it happen.
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah.
And then after that, man. I mean, you do a couple things
of, you know, the chi heal or, you know, some olives a little
avocado here and there and then everything else after that is
either a vegetable or you know, maybe a nut.
You know. Peanut almond Macadamia.
I like my macadamia nuts. So yeah.
I like it. I like it.
I really appreciate it, man. I feel like, you know, you're
coming from a place where you're not Making your food, your
religion. And it's not like an ethical
thing. So much.
It is, you know, what works best for your body.
What works best for your clients.
Let's experiment, kind of tweak things and see what's going to
optimize for you, which I totally respect and appreciate
that. I think that's how food should
be. I mean food as a fuel be treated
as such, but I'm curious, man, like what is your whole take on,
you know, you and I are both having the same spot in that.
We're just, you know, like said looking at food as a fuel, but
there's like this ever raging Date between carnivore.
Specifically versus vegan right now.
And it's vegans have always been kind of the ones that are
supposedly in their own cult and it's just like don't mess with
the vegans. But now I'm in carnivores
becoming something very similar and it's just interesting for me
to kind of like stand back and watch the war rage on.
But but what do you think about it with your whole take on the
the community as a whole just kind of a high level picture of
it? Yeah man for one I think is I
think it's quite sad. The reason why I say that This
because these both on both sides, I'm sure.
Carnivore helps many people because I've seen people with
autoimmune disease or something like that autoimmune issues.
I've seen them have a good benefits on it, especially if
that's where, you know, your lineage comes from, you know,
mostly meat-based back. It works same thing with
veganism. I've noticed, I've seen a lot of
great things done inside of veganism.
And I say it's sad because the behavior or the activity that
these both of these sides, Are doing it pushes people away.
It puts a bad taste in people's mouths.
So if I'm looking at going vegan and then I have all of these
vegans on my back because I'm not transitioning fast enough,
or because I'm wearing leather, and I'm just trying to focus on
my diet right now, but I'm wearing leather, you're going to
talk crap, you know, it pisses me off, to be honest and that's
kind of why, you know, I try to stay in the middle and I try to,
I try to say, hey, I'm with you on the vegan part.
I think it's great for the body, but hey, That sounds great too
but don't and this is on both sides.
Don't push what works for you on other people?
Because everybody, you know, it's different and to be quite
Frank. A lot of times, I tell people,
hey, I can't because I've had, I've literally had people come
to me and ask me why don't you, you know, participate more in
activism. And I tell them, I said, hey, I
have friends and family here right now who are afraid, you
know, of the for their lives as a black man.
Man, some of them are afraid for their lives.
I can't focus on another animal or anything without focusing on
what I have to worry about in my livelihood right now because
I've had certain instances also, as an African-American man where
I've been in certain cases. You know, let's just be honest,
we're still in the South and not everybody is Progressive.
So that that is something I had to tell a lot of people that you
are on your journey. I'm on my journey and I'm
helping thousands of people go vegan.
You got to get off my back. Just because I may still wear
leather or, you know, and same thing for, you know, carnivore
it works for you but hey don't push that on me, you know?
So yeah, man, I I don't know, I feel I feel sad about the whole
situation. No, I'm in the same boat, man.
Like it's it's comical that, you know, somebody's food, what's on
your plate? Can just cause so much negative
energy and emotion and rivalry. So it's sad that it's come to
that point, but I guess it's just people get gung-ho and are
passionate about Something that's just kind of like yeah
but with regarding nutrition and dieting man, I've always
encouraged people to never deal in absolutes or just assume that
their way is the best way. Because I mean at the end of the
day there's so much variety out there.
Why would we want to distract from that?
And you know you know paint the same picture.
Like I'm glad that there's vegans out there.
I'm glad there's people that that hate meet.
I'm glad there's people of all different walks of life.
I mean I'm going to do what works for me.
I'm gonna try and do best, you know, by my clients a can And
same to you but it's just I know it's not likely they were all
going to just get along but it's sad that we don't over something
as simple as what boots, Put your mouth right and and I heard
Jimmy more say, something along this lines, where is Jimmy
Moore? And I think it was real cold
that time, I heard this and he says, Quito is probably going to
be one of the closest things to merging the two because you have
meat eaters who can go And you have vegans who can all agree
that keto works. And I love that when he said
that, it made so much sense, it made so much sense, because he's
right? So, you know, if we can just
push apart the emotions, because a lot of this stuff is emotional
if we can just sit down our emotions and we just look and
see what actually works will be a lot better off.
No, I totally am in total degree.
That's, that's fine. You know, you're doing your
thing, I'm doing my thing and we're just going everything we
can collectively to spread the Word and make the world a
healthier Place, absolutely brother.
Absolutely, I love it. Love it as well.
Ma'am tape again. I appreciate the time brother.
Well, if this again, I'm definitely going to hit you up
when I decided to give this, you know, month of Eagan and try.
Because I'll have all kinds of questions for sure.
But what will definitely be in touch me?
Because I said I'm learning and I appreciate respecter, you
know, you take on this whole thing and I think make a big,
big difference in positive impact, a lot of people you're
mine definitely. I'm looking towards looking for
that time, man. Don't be great great and then
hey, if you decide to stay or go, it's all good.
I just I appreciate you feeling, you know, being open and giving
it a Truck. Yeah, 100% man.
I think being open minded is, if people are more people are
open-minded, we wouldn't have to deal with there near the
bullshit that we just got done talking about with there being
so much conflict up there. Absolutely what's a man until
next time brother. Again, I appreciate the time and
we'll be in touch. Yeah, well we're from and find
out more about you. I meant it.
Oh, so pretty much anywhere. Just Google or search the vegan
trainer. I'm they're pretty much YouTube
Instagram Facebook. The vegan trainer is where I
reside sweet sweet. A link at that to make it easy
for people to find you. Perfect.
Thanks man.
You bet they have it going brother.
You too man.