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Well hello ladies and gents, 
Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 

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And today I've got special guest
Louis Summerson on the line. 

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He and I actually met at the 
WNBF World's competition. 

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We shared the stage together 
which was an awesome experience 

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and then we met after the show 
as we were waiting for judges 

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feedback. 
We're waiting for like an hour, 

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hour and a half. 
So we got to talk and he is from

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the UK but he lives in Dubai. 
He traveled there four worlds, 

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and we just kind of talked about
nutrition, talked about 

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training, talked about what led 
to us competing at World. 

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So I kind of wanted to bring him
back on the podcast or to the 

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podcast today to pick his brain 
in greater detail for Y'all to 

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listen to about what his prep 
strategy was like. 

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What are some mistakes he's made
in the past as it pertains to 

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going through these building and
cutting phases, the reverse diet

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phase, and just talk about the 
sport of natural bodybuilding in

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its totality? 
So I thoroughly enjoyed the 

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conversation. 
I've got a lot of respect for 

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Louis and what he's done to get 
to this level. 

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As a pro bodybuilder, I was 
honored to share the stage with 

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him and I was honored to have 
him on the podcast. 

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So without further delay, sit 
back, relax, enjoy the 

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conversation with Louis 
Summerson 

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and we are live. 
Louis, how are you brother? 

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I'm good, mate. 
How are you doing? 

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I'm good, man. 
I'm good. 

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Remind me where you're located. 
You're in Dubai half the time, 

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right? 
But that's not where you're from

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originally. 
Yeah, so I'm from Cardiff in the

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UK, but I've been living in 
Dubai for the last four years 

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now. 
Nice. 

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Yeah, I I met you for listener's
sake. 

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I met you at the debut and BF 
World's competition. 

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We're both standing in line 
waiting to hear back from the 

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judges feedback, which they were
super late in in getting to the 

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meeting. 
So you and I were just kind of 

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talking for quite some time. 
There's who were killing some 

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time, but I'm excited to chat 
with you man. 

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So you and I did the same show. 
You and I were in the same class

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in Division, we're on stage at 
the same time. 

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So pretty cool. 
Yeah, definitely. 

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I mean, you didn't wait for the 
feedback, did you? 

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The judges feedback. 
No, I had a you left. 

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I had a meeting. 
We had reservations and they 

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were about to close. 
So I'm Boogie because they were 

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like an hour and a half late, 
weren't they? 

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Yeah, you didn't. 
You didn't miss much anyway like

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I think yeah I said to you I 
mentioned to yourself that it 

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was the first time I was 
actually getting feedback at at 

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chose. 
But yeah, it was pretty much a 

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basic response from all like 
momos and everywhere, which we 

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probably expected seeing as we 
we we didn't come off as winners

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on the day. 
So that's probably easy response

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to kind of say to people but 
yeah, I guess it was it was good

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to do anyway. 
Good to experience. 

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Yeah, And but yeah, we were we. 
Hope didn't mean to catch you 

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After what were you? 
Saying no. 

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Why did you say that? 
What did you say? 

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And for the listeners, I would 
recommend getting the judges 

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feedback for sure. 
The only reason I didn't that 

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time was because I had that 
prior obligation. 

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But then also I had gone to the 
feedback at every show prior to 

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that one and all the feedback 
has pretty much been the same, 

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which for me was just to put on 
more size. 

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So I knew that was probably what
they were going to say anyways. 

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Yeah. 
But it's not, it's still kind of

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nice to hear I guess even if 
it's, it's kind of along the 

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lines of what you're thinking. 
It's still, it's free, right. 

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And I mean the judges are taking
the time out themselves to go 

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there. 
So I guess why not, Why not, Why

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not do it. 
And and even if you just take 

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one thing from from 1 judge 
let's say, which I did actually 

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take a few things which are 
going to help me when I next 

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compete, whenever that whenever 
that's going to be. 

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When is that going to be, man? 
Do you have any competitions in 

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the pipeline? 
So initially like I said I was 

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going to when I when I'm was 
speaking to you at the feedback,

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I said I'm going to do like a 
two year offseason potentially. 

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That was kind of the first four.
And yeah, I've kind of, I've 

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definitely said like I'm going 
to be taking this year off 100% 

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because I I competed for the 
last two previous years. 

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So I haven't really had like a 
proper long offseason. 

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You know at the shows you kind 
of like go into like a recovery 

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phase for a for a while before 
you even start to be able to 

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pick momentum up. 
So like that takes a long time 

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anyway, doesn't it? 
So like for for for both 

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seasons, 3-4 months of doing 
that pushing somebody weight up 

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and then and then I would go 
kind of back into a prep phase 

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then or I'll be looking to go 
into prep phase. 

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So I definitely feel like I want
to spend the whole year just 

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kind of not going into a deficit
and then potentially like we'll 

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see how things go, see it, see 
how much progress I potentially 

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can make. 
I do plan to stay like 

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relatively lean throughout this 
phase which I've not. 

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I'm not actually done in 
previous like longer off 

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seasons. 
I'm not afraid that I kind of 

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push body weight up, but this 
time around I want to keep 

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things a little bit more tight 
just because like many different

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benefits to that. 
But definitely, like I just want

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to be able to see the progress 
that I'm making as well even if 

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it is like a small amount, you 
know so potentially potentially 

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competing at the end of what 
would it be 2025 potentially do 

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like a a late prep for late 
shows the end of 2025 is what is

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what I'm thinking. 
I'd love to compete every year 

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mate, but obviously as we know, 
natural bodybuilding it's not 

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beneficial really for like to 
get if we, if we want to 

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definitely improve on our 
physique, we need that time away

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from preps, don't we? 
And when you and I were talking 

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at the the feedback room there, 
you know, at the time the WNBF 

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federation had mandated that 
every competitor that had earned

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their pro status compete every 
two years in order to maintain 

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their pro status. 
But then just about a month ago,

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I guess now they changed that 
mandate. 

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So now as long as you keep up 
with your membership dues, you 

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don't have to compete every 
single year. 

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And for you being international,
that stipulation was never in 

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place anyways. 
But for me, being domestic, they

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had that two year requirement. 
So I'm super stoked because now 

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I can take off as much time as I
want and I'll have that clock 

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ticking in the background trying
to, you know, force me to 

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compete if I'm not ready yet. 
So I think that's a a massive 

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bonus. 
I don't have to worry about 

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stepping on stage every two 
years now. 

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Yeah. 
I mean it's like like like we 

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mentioned the international 
athletes didn't have that wasn't

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an issue for us. 
We as long as we had kept our 

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pro status valid. 
But yeah for you guys now it's 

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it's just less less of a stress 
now where it doesn't kind of 

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force you into that constantly 
competing phases like you know 

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where like you said now it's 
just you can relax take time 

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which which ultimately like that
should be the case anyway. 

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Like I don't I don't think in 
the in the the non tested shows 

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like the IFBB and that they 
don't I don't think they require

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them to like compete every so 
often do they I think once 

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they've got their pro carding I 
think it's just pretty much they

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can compete whenever and and and
especially for us natural 

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bodybuilders who are not 
assisted even more reason for us

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taking longer off seasons right.
Like we need them them longer 

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because we haven't got the 
assistance of the of the drugs 

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side of things so So I I 
definitely think it was a it was

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a good move from the from the 
WMBF and yeah one that like a 

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lot of you guys in the in the in
the over in the US and stuff are

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going to be a lot happy with and
it's just going to make natural 

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bodybuilding better right. 
There's going to be better 

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athletes now coming to the stage
each year because because of 

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that because of the longer 
offseasons and the less pressure

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to compete all the time. 
Yeah. 100% agreement. 

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I feel like as a natural athlete
specifically, you only benefit 

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from taking more time off in 
between competitions. 

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I mean, I don't know what your 
prep look like. 

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We'll dive into that, you know, 
in this conversation for sure. 

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But for me, I was dieting for 33
weeks by the time I stepped on 

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stage for Worlds, and I'm still 
reverse dieting now. 

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So this is 12 weeks post Worlds 
and I haven't even returned to 

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my baseline yet. 
So I mean that's that's like a 

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whole year right there. 
So if I'm spending a year in a 

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deficit in a reverse, then I'm 
not really going to have much 

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time to put on more lean tissue 
and look markedly better than 

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next time I step on stage, 
unless I do take a longer off 

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season. 
Yeah. 

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And it's it's funny because like
we all want to be competing, 

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right? 
Like I I compete every every 

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other month if I could, if it 
was, if it if it was a benefit 

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for us. 
But like the sport that we're 

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in, it's not, it's not, it's 
just not feasible, is it? 

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It's not, It's not something 
that's going to be beneficial. 

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And like you said with the 
timeline for competing, it's not

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just a case of like a three 
month prep and then you're good 

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to go. 
It's like you've got the pre 

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prep diet phase let's say, which
you're going to be in a deficit 

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for so long depending on how how
much body weight you're starting

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from. 
And then and then once you 

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actually get to your first show,
then you're doing maybe multiple

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shows after that and then let's 
say when the end of the season 

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comes, but then you've got to, 
you've got to fix all them 

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problems that that you've put 
your body in that deep hole 

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throughout that phase and that 
takes time just to get out of 

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that. 
Like you said yourself, I I've 

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actually managed like you said, 
we're going to go into my preps 

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and stuff. 
But I I feel like I'm relatively

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like out of the recovery phase. 
It's like it was actually 

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surprising how how quick I came 
out of this phase because I've 

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done multiple preps similar to 
yourself and like they're all, 

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they're all like there's similar
aspects to a lot of them but 

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there's also differences just 
for some and I feel like every 

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time we do it we learn more and 
more and we try to apply that to

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them. 
It might be just small mistakes 

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or whatever for the next time 
round and and I've definitely 

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done that and I feel like, I 
mean it's always horrible right?

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Pre prep is whatever whether 
you're equipped for or not it's 

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it's it's it's not going to be 
great right. 

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So like, but I I feel like I've 
I've shortened that that that 

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stuff were in kind of phase and 
I I rebounded relatively quickly

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out of that which has been good 
for myself. 

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So you and I both are were the 
lighter competitors in our 

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weight class because you and I 
both in the lightweight class 

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and what what was your show day 
or show weight on show day? 

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So my show day weight I believe 
when I weighed in I was 153 lbs 

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weigh in. 
But then come the the very next 

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day I think it was the next day 
after weigh in's right which was

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the show or maybe it was two 
days after. 

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But anyway, on on the morning of
showdown, I was around 155 lbs. 

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And what do you, what do you 
weigh now? 

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So right now I'm sitting at 170 
lbs. 

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So I'm I'm, I'm basically 15 lbs
up from stage weight in what? 

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What has it been like two 
months, maybe longer? 

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1212 weeks pretty much now, so 
we're we're three months. 

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Oh, so three months. 
So yeah, three months in and 

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I've gained 15 lbs. 
But I I feel like I've I've kind

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of stabilised the the the rate 
of gain of the last like 4 

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weeks, it's kind of really 
slowed down. 

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I think it was quite, quite, 
quite quick at the beginning and

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now my plan is to kind of like 
hover around this like 170 mark,

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really slow that rate again down
now because I'm I'm, I'm, I feel

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like yeah there's there's a 
point where you go and you just 

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gain more more body fat you know
we don't we don't need a huge 

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third plus in order to build 
muscle. 

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Totally agree. 
Man, so, but I'm I'm, I'm really

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happy that I'm in a place right 
now where like we always get 

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cravings for food and stuff but 
like my cravings are really kind

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of being suppressed now. 
I'm happy to kind of some days 

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00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,440
I'll drop down my calories and 
then and then some days I'll 

223
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,000
just like push them like really 
high depending on how I'm 

224
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,880
feeling. 
But I'm just in a good spot 

225
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,680
where I'm not like really food 
focused and and stuff like like 

226
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,120
we are when we're when we're 
dieting for shows, you know? 

227
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:10,400
Yeah, I feel like we're both in 
a pretty good spot because I'm I

228
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,120
think my I did 5 shows and my 
show day weight was anywhere 

229
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,120
from I think 1:59 to I think 
1:53 or 1:54. 

230
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,520
And I woke up this morning at 
167. 

231
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,320
So I'm about, you know, 1015 lbs
up to depending on what show 

232
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,920
you're gauging off of. 
Yeah, So what? 

233
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,840
What was your weight on? 
That's the world's. 

234
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,440
Then the show day The world's. 
Let me look, I can look it up 

235
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:39,120
and tell you exactly so on show 
day for Worlds, which was 11/19,

236
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:44,880
I was 152.3. 152 OK, Yeah, 
that's interesting. 

237
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,800
Yeah. 
So, yeah, we're all we we, I 

238
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,560
think we were definitely in the 
in the lighter end of that 

239
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:54,880
lightweight plaster, right. 
I know obviously Dirk was was 

240
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,840
was quite low body weight, 
weren't he? 

241
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,960
But but I know a lot of them 
guys, especially in the in the, 

242
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,080
if you look at the top five in 
the in that like crazy stat 

243
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,200
class that we were in, there was
some big guys in there, weren't 

244
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,760
there. 
Like I know Jeff Alberts was 

245
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,600
like at the top, the top end of 
the weight class weren't he? 

246
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,840
I think he was like like he just
made it into that weight class 

247
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,360
and and and it and it kind of it
kind of showed on stage I think 

248
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,680
didn't it Like a lot of them 
guys in that top five would 

249
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,000
definitely, yeah, they were 
definitely a lot a lot more 

250
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,400
muscle a lot bigger than than us
in that in that kind of second 

251
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,520
call out. 
Oh, for sure, man. 

252
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,160
I mean, I think the, the window 
for the lightweight class is 150

253
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,520
to 165 if I remember correctly. 
So you and I were definitely on 

254
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,200
the lower end of that and those 
guys that were on the upper end,

255
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,840
I mean the judges were just 
looking for more muscle. 

256
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,080
And I don't feel like you and I 
were lacking at all from a 

257
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,680
conditioning standpoint. 
Like I think I was toe to toe 

258
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,560
with any of those guys from a 
conditioning standpoint, but I 

259
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,640
just did. 100%, yeah. 
Yeah. 

260
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,400
And that's, that's the thing 
it's kind of that's 

261
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,200
bodybuilding, right. 
You've got, you kind of got to 

262
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,720
balance the two and you've got 
to come with with the condition 

263
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,360
and the size. 
But then it then it's also about

264
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,160
like if you look at Dirk like 
he's obviously conditioned but 

265
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,200
but his his low body weight he 
also has like crazy muscle 

266
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,920
proportions right Like and he 
he's got he's got his muscle 

267
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,560
popping in in all the right 
areas and stuff and in his 

268
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,960
physique just like shows you 
know So it's like it's just 

269
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,720
interesting that like it's it's 
kind of hope for us guys you are

270
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,720
kind of that lower lower end 
scale weight wise that like for 

271
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,640
him winning that class and 
beating all them guys around him

272
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,640
which we've had had maybe 1015 
lbs on him scale weight wise. 

273
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,240
It doesn't. 
It doesn't look like that on 

274
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,800
stage right when when they're 
standing next to each other, he 

275
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,480
still looks as impressive, if 
not better than them. 

276
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,120
And he. 
So it's like it's kind of. 

277
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,320
He he's a 5, three or five, 
four, so he's pretty short. 

278
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,880
I don't remember what is. 
Actually, yeah, he's small. 

279
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,600
Yeah. 
Yeah, he's small. 

280
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,520
Because I know I'm, I'm not that
tall myself, but I was. 

281
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,680
I was definitely taller than 
him, Yeah, when I was backstage.

282
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,360
I'm not. 
I'm not blessed with the height 

283
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,080
jeans either so I'm coming in 
like 5-7 and a half 5/8 so. 

284
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,680
Yeah, I'm not that. 
Yeah, I I'd say I'm 5/8 on a 

285
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:10,680
good day. 
Yeah. 

286
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,080
So maybe I'm just saying. 
That so so talk to me a little 

287
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,000
bit about your your reverse 
actually let's just we'll talk 

288
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,720
about the reverse diet because 
we're both kind of in that 

289
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,560
reverse diet phase now. 
But as far as the prep itself is

290
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,000
concerned, how how many weeks 
were you dieting for that show? 

291
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:33,160
So I'd have to think though I I 
believe I had 14, yeah. 

292
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,080
So my first show was when I win.
I won the pro card that season 

293
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,440
so it was W MB FUAE. 
So the show in Dubai, they've 

294
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:46,200
only got 1 show every year. 
So I was dieting for around 

295
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:51,320
about I believe it was around 14
weeks prep for that show and I 

296
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,080
kind of going into that show I 
wanted to win my pro card and 

297
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,400
that was like the main goal for 
this season. 

298
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,240
And I I was looking at potential
shows after that show. 

299
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,120
So I was looking at like Malta, 
I think it was a show in Malta 

300
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,760
and then a couple of shows 
around Europe I was, I was like 

301
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,240
I just want to get this 
programme. 

302
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,800
That was my main goal. 
I said I don't mind if I travel 

303
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,520
do multiple shows. 
I'm going to try and go for it 

304
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,200
and obviously when I got when I 
was going into that Dubai show 

305
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,280
14 weeks, I did make like like I
wasn't. 

306
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,480
I think my stage weight was 
actually 160 lbs for that show. 

307
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,520
So that goes to the show. 
Like from then to world I I lost

308
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,440
another 5 lbs. 
But yeah I knew that my 

309
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,320
conditioning wasn't the best for
that show. 

310
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,200
But I also knew because I've 
done that show previous years in

311
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,680
the past, like there's a lot of 
like big muscly guys in that 

312
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,720
show which and and they don't 
think, they don't tend to have 

313
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,840
like the best conditioning let's
say. 

314
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,000
So I knew that I needed to come 
in like bigger and it was 

315
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,080
actually going to favour me for 
that show. 

316
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,360
And that's exactly kind of the 
look that I brought. 

317
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,040
I had a decent amount of 
conditioning, but it wasn't the 

318
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,720
same level as what I as what I 
took the world. 

319
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,599
It ended up winning my pro card 
at that show. 

320
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,319
So that was good. 
Like I ticked it off in the 

321
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:18,760
first try of the season and then
I went through, I went, I went 

322
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,920
through like a phase of like 
maybe it was six weeks or so 

323
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,119
where I was like I pushed body 
weight up up to like 165. 

324
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,440
I was kind of like it wasn't a 
reverse diet or anything. 

325
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,880
I was just kind of like, let's 
call it like a diet break where 

326
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,840
I was just a bit more relaxed. 
Like I kind of put my body out 

327
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:41,600
of the deficit phase, like let 
my training improve a little 

328
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:42,920
bit. 
And then and then when I 

329
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,240
committed to competing for 
Worlds, I believe I had a 

330
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,320
roundabout another four weeks 
from when I decided to actually,

331
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:52,720
I was actually going to do 
Worlds. 

332
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,680
So in between shows it was it 
was around about 8 weeks I would

333
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,080
say. 
So when I when I won my pro card

334
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,680
to World was was it around 8 
weeks, Ellie. 

335
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,480
So yeah, I think I think it was 
around 8 weeks. 

336
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,000
Yeah, from from from when I won 
the pro card to World. 

337
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,240
But I had a little break in in 
between maybe three or four 

338
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:12,880
weeks. 
But you were trying to think 

339
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,760
your intake and everything then 
too, right? 

340
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:15,960
You were just eating a little 
bit more. 

341
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,560
Yeah, I was still, yeah, 100%. 
I was still tracking everything.

342
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,880
But I was, I was having a lot of
cheat meals like because I was 

343
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,840
like I was celebrating obviously
that I won the pro card. 

344
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,800
And at that stage I wasn't 100% 
I was going to compete at 

345
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,920
Worlds. 
I was kind of in a phase where I

346
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,040
was like, well, I don't want to 
like mess my physique up because

347
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,320
as you know, like if you if you 
go off the rails for like even 

348
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,000
2-3 weeks, like it's hard to 
pull that back then down. 

349
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,120
So I was kind of like just I 
was, I was, I was 5050 in and 

350
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,320
out of it really, but I was 
still tracking everything. 

351
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,320
But yeah, I was like thinking in
the back of my mind like should 

352
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,400
I do world, should I make the 
pro debut there or should I just

353
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,520
go into an offseason. 
I was literally like it was a 

354
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,560
5050 wherever I was going to but
but I was at least holding my 

355
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,120
body weight within a within a 
range where I knew if if I 

356
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:11,280
committed to go into Worlds I 
only have to pull a couple of 

357
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,920
pounds back off and I'd be right
back where I was. 

358
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,680
And then and then we could dig 
for some more fat loss going 

359
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,000
into into Worlds and it and it 
turned out to kind of I was 

360
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:26,000
close enough to what what I 
wanted condition wise like I I I

361
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,840
probably could have done with an
extra week or two on my hands 

362
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,400
going into just to be on the 
safe side but I feel like we're 

363
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,360
always like that right. 
We always want more, more 

364
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:36,120
condition. 
Yeah. 

365
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,800
We could be like shredded glutes
conditioned as hell and we're 

366
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,880
like, no, no, there's more fat 
to come off. 

367
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,400
Like give me another couple of 
weeks, you know I feel like we 

368
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,040
could always dig for more. 
So it's it's one of them ones 

369
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,360
like you dig in for more 
condition and then that's going 

370
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:55,720
to actually make the look worse 
potentially when you get deep 

371
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,760
down in them them lower phases. 
It's a it's an interesting 

372
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,120
question right. 
Like I mean. 

373
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,400
Yeah, no, I I totally 
understand, man. 

374
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,000
I think for me world, I think 
honestly I probably looked the 

375
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:12,000
best when I went pro in October 
at the the Washington State 

376
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,480
show. 
And then when I did, I did two 

377
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,560
more shows after that as a pro 
with Worlds being the last one. 

378
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,000
And I was definitely leaner at 
Worlds. 

379
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,560
Like that was the most 
conditioned I was, and that was 

380
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,800
my whole goal with this in its 
entirety was to get the the 

381
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,760
leanest person alive status. 
And I feel like I was pretty 

382
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,120
much right there. 
That's in your bio on Instagram.

383
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But I definitely think from a a 

384
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,160
a sheer bodybuilding standpoint,
from a judge's standpoint, I 

385
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,240
think I probably looked better 
when I was a little bit heavier 

386
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,640
and wasn't quite as depleted and
conditioned, you know. 

387
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,400
So I kind of checked off all the
boxes that I wanted to, but like

388
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,640
here I am now in reverse diet 
and there's like I just have so 

389
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,280
much more fullness to me, not 
quite as conditioned, but much 

390
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:03,760
more fullness and I feel better.
So I like I like that more, but 

391
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,120
I just really wanted to see how 
far I could push it, you know? 

392
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,360
Yeah. 
I mean and and it's it's nice 

393
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,840
like it's it's more for like 
you're not doing it, you're not 

394
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,360
pushing the limits of how lean 
you can get for like a trophy, 

395
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:19,400
right. 
It's kind of like we're we're 

396
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,000
doing it. 
We want to just push our body to

397
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,440
the absolute limit. 
Like how like like you said can 

398
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,400
you be the leanest guy in the 
world? 

399
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,160
Like can you be the leanest guy 
on stage that whole show? 

400
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,880
Because then like you know that 
you've left everything out 

401
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,160
there. 
Like, you know you haven't, you 

402
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,960
haven't kept anything back. 
I'm like it's like what's more 

403
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,680
important like and if you do get
like conditioned like that 

404
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,400
you're going to be impressive no
matter what. 

405
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:50,120
I mean like who's who's to say 
that like an extra pound or two 

406
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:53,240
of fullness is going to move you
up places? 

407
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,360
We don't know really do we. 
It's kind of like that trade off

408
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,440
of like kind of the look that 
you're wanting to achieve. 

409
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,160
But the main thing I think is 
like when we're digging down fat

410
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,840
off, it's like them later stages
you almost have to slow down the

411
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,680
rate of of loss, don't you, when
you when you get really into 

412
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,840
them deep phases. 
And for me going into Worlds, I 

413
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,200
didn't, I didn't, I was under a 
time scale, right? 

414
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,840
And I I feel feel like I was 
kind of rushing it a little bit,

415
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,800
especially like the the last 
like final week or two. 

416
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,920
And I probably speed up my fat 
loss over like that one. 

417
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,640
Well, like over that 1% rate of 
loss per week. 

418
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,800
And I feel like it probably 
didn't do me any justice. 

419
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,760
It probably didn't make me look 
slightly worse. 

420
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,480
But but again, like we, we want 
to dig for that condition. 

421
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,720
Yeah, you don't want to, you 
don't want to end up on stage 

422
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,840
when you've been dieting for 20 
weeks, 30 weeks or something and

423
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,400
then like you're holding a bit 
of body fat or or or something 

424
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,720
in the final show of the season.
You don't want, you don't want 

425
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,560
to leave it to chance like that.
Do you don't want to, you don't 

426
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,240
want to turn up and say oh, I'm 
going to push for a little bit 

427
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,240
more fullness and then you end 
up look like watery or something

428
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,200
where you look like you haven't 
even been dieting, let's say, 

429
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,640
you know, that's like the worst.
So it's kind of like you've got 

430
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,480
it's risk and reward sort of 
thing in it when it when it 

431
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,720
comes to peaking your physique 
and kind of going for that look.

432
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,480
But that's something like that's
something you have to kind of 

433
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,360
monitor, right. 
Like I don't know. 

434
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:23,840
If you do you coach yourself. 
I'm self coached. 

435
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,120
I am. 
C Yeah. 

436
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,680
You self coach. 
Yeah. 

437
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,320
Perfect. 
So. 

438
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,080
So so you know yourself it's 
like it's just something that 

439
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,240
you have to constantly kind of 
monitor and you could throw past

440
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,480
your girlfriend or or some close
mates like what what do you 

441
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,560
think my looks get it, you know 
and and then taking like 

442
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,440
obviously the pose in every 
every day and taking physique 

443
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,640
shots and and looking at the 
scale weight, looking all the 

444
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,160
variables. 
It just helps you manage better 

445
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,520
and and like if you can look at 
yourself which you probably can 

446
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,880
because you're self coached as 
well from like an outside point 

447
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,160
of view. 
Whereas if you're like you're 

448
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,200
the coach sort of thing, not 
like taking the emotion aside 

449
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,520
like what is actually going to 
be beneficial for the look like 

450
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,720
am I getting better or worse. 
As long as you can be honest 

451
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,240
with yourself with that, then 
ultimately you're going to 

452
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,440
you're going to bring the best 
package and then you can stage 

453
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,440
like. 
And 100, I mean at that level 

454
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,000
like the untrained eye would not
even be able to distinguish the 

455
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,840
differences. 
I mean like the judges can tell 

456
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,000
cause they've been doing this 
for years. 

457
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,480
Other competitors can likely 
tell yourself, can tell. 

458
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,360
Obviously if you've been self 
coaching you're taking these 

459
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:30,160
physique shots. 
But like you're literally, you 

460
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,080
know, teetering between that 
last 1% of trading off more 

461
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,840
conditioning for fullness at 
that point. 

462
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,880
And for me, like, I don't know, 
man. 

463
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:44,080
Like, I would totally sacrifice 
possibly a better look with more

464
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,560
fullness for just the knowledge 
that I went as deep and as hard 

465
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,640
as I could. 
Like to me, that mental shift 

466
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,440
and that mental, you know, 
gratitude that comes with 

467
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,160
knowing that you've gone that 
far, far outweighs that 1% 

468
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,160
improvement in what I could 
potentially look like if I 

469
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,440
hadn't taken it that far. 
Like I like the the 

470
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,560
psychological benefits more so 
than anything. 

471
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,760
Yeah, I I think. 
I think I'm the same like that, 

472
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,320
mate. 
It's almost like when you ask 

473
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,520
yourself empty questions like 
why do, why do all this 

474
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,840
bodybuilders do what we do? 
Like realistically, like come on

475
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,960
like we're we're slowly killing 
our body over multiple weeks, 

476
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,720
like slowly start starving our 
body like almost like death, 

477
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,400
like let's say, right. 
If we keep going, like we're 

478
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,760
almost going to die, like are we
really doing that for like some 

479
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,600
trophy or like some some extra 
followers on Instagram? 

480
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,360
Like let's be honest, like 
there's there's easier ways to 

481
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,720
make money in the world or 
whatever then that. 

482
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,480
Like there's many ways to make 
money, right? 

483
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,480
Like that's probably not the 
easiest and the best thing to do

484
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,720
to suffer like like prep prep 
for instance. 

485
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,200
But I feel like a lot of us do 
do it for them, their mental 

486
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,400
reasons like like the stuff that
you learn about yourself when 

487
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,960
you go into a prep and and like 
you said, you leave it all out 

488
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,600
on the table. 
Like you push to try and get as 

489
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,200
lean as possible. 
Like you don't you don't leave 

490
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,160
anything to chance and you know 
you've like not cheated the 

491
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,840
diet. 
You know you've hit every 

492
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,920
workout. 
You know you've pushed on them 

493
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,640
hard days when it got really 
tough and you stopped all them 

494
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,520
cravings that that that like 
that's that's the reward right 

495
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,960
there really in it. 
Like when you look back it's 

496
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,000
it's just I mean you can you can
do anything after that, right? 

497
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,120
Like crap is pretty difficult in
it. 

498
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,400
It spills over into every other 
area of your life and that 

499
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,960
you're able to just flourish on 
all fronts, knowing that you 

500
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,520
have that confidence that you've
obtained from doing those kind 

501
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,400
of things. 
What what did your calories get 

502
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,880
down to actually? 
What? 

503
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,040
What was your weight at the very
onset like before you started 

504
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,160
and you said you get down to 
153, but what was your starting 

505
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:03,280
weight? 
So I've pushed up to two O 5 on 

506
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,240
record, was like the highest 
body weight I've been in an 

507
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,080
offseason setting and that was 
kind of after the very first 

508
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:15,320
show I did back in 2020. 
That was my first ever 

509
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,320
bodybuilding show. 
After that show I did like a two

510
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,240
year offseason. 
I pushed all the way up to like 

511
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,200
Two O 5 because definitely on 
this the softer side let's say 

512
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,480
and then then then I did a prep 
obviously and I actually went to

513
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,080
Worlds last year as an amateur. 
So I went to Worlds in LAWMF 

514
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,240
Worlds and I just missed out on 
the pro card. 

515
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,880
I got third place at Worlds as 
an amateur and then I went into 

516
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,480
like not an offseason because I 
did plan to kind of compete the 

517
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,120
following year. 
But I went into, obviously did 

518
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:56,200
the recovery phase and then I 
pushed up to around 178 lbs was 

519
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,680
my like highest body weight. 
And I kind of just like 

520
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,280
maintained that, like 178 lbs. 
I kind of maintained there. 

521
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,720
I was just weighting. 
I was obviously training hard 

522
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,320
and everything like we're always
trying to do. 

523
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:13,440
And then when I was ready to go 
into the prep, then yeah, so I 

524
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,200
believe I was around, I was 
around that 178 when at the 

525
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,400
start of prep, which was like a 
lot better. 

526
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,400
For any listeners that are 
listening out there that are 

527
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,760
looking at doing shows from my 
advice like losing what, what 

528
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,840
would I have lost when I went 
down to 155 lbs to two or five, 

529
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,920
it's like 50 lbs, right. 
My maths are bad, but yeah 

530
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,480
that's that's a lot of weight 
like that that that was that 

531
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,720
that that wasn't the best look 
on stage either losing that 

532
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,680
amount of weight, that dieting 
for that long period of time. 

533
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,080
The best look that I I've ever 
had was when I went to 178 lbs 

534
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,240
and then went back into a prep 
phase and that was that. 

535
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,480
That was the prep I just did now
when I went my pro card and and 

536
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,120
and and there's no secret like 
there's no the the reason I'm 

537
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,720
feeling so good after the world 
show and after this prep. 

538
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,120
I believe a big part of that is 
down to the fact that I didn't 

539
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,640
lose so much. 
I didn't have so much weight to 

540
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,800
lose and I didn't have such a 
harsh deficit or or a diet in 

541
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,280
phase. 
You know obviously they're 

542
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,880
always harsh and they're always 
bad but by limited the damage 

543
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,400
basically let's say and and it 
definitely proved better for my 

544
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,480
physique better for my mental 
state better for energy levels 

545
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,600
and just a better post show 
period as well. 

546
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,360
Like everything just feels 
better and I guess like I 

547
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,320
realized like I am a 
professional bodybuilder now 

548
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,960
like I like to it never gets 
boring when I say that because 

549
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,800
still have to kind of pinch 
myself to that that that's what 

550
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,800
I am. 
But but I guess learning their 

551
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,120
mistakes in the past that is 
like kind of how professionals 

552
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,760
run their dieting phases and 
their post show periods And I'm 

553
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,080
sure yourself like well I know 
you have because you your your 

554
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:14,400
body weight is 167 lbs now and 
you know so that that that's a 

555
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,760
smart way and the right way that
it's not right or wrong but in 

556
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,520
my opinion it's a it's a it's a 
better way of doing things. 

557
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,480
It's certainly a healthier way. 
I mean, my first show, the first

558
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:32,200
show I did was in 2012 and I had
bulked up to 230 lbs prior to 

559
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:38,920
that and I cut down to 153 in 12
weeks. 

560
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,680
I lost 80 lbs in 12 weeks. 
And that's that's mental. 

561
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,840
Yeah, that was not healthy. 
It was not good. 

562
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,080
I developed a bunch of eating 
disorders afterwards. 

563
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,720
Like, it was just all the wrong 
things took place during that 

564
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,440
first prep. 
And now, kind of like what you 

565
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:54,760
were saying. 
I mean, you're a professional 

566
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,480
athlete now. 
I'm a professional athlete now. 

567
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,880
With that, you've got more 
perspective, you've got more 

568
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,680
maturity, you recognize what 
your body responds well to, and 

569
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,280
you don't eat like an ass after 
the show because there's no good

570
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,960
that's going to come from that. 
And yeah, there's been times 

571
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,320
where I've had, you know, really
high calories. 

572
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,480
Like, I had a couple days with 
this reverse diet where I was 

573
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,160
like 8000 calories, but I was 
very it's not. 

574
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,240
Multiple days. 
Though yeah, it's not multiple 

575
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,960
days I'm tracking it all. 
I'm I'm very objective and 

576
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,280
subjective in how I feel, how my
body looks, how it responds. 

577
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,200
Like I've tested the limit 
because I want to have that data

578
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,960
and I want to have that 
perspective. 

579
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,120
But when you just let yourself 
run rampant and, you know, let 

580
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,960
go of the rains, that's when it 
that's when it gets dangerous. 

581
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,200
And damage is done. 
Yeah, damage is done man. 

582
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,600
So like having a health 
relationship with food post show

583
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,040
is where most people struggle, 
but that's something you just 

584
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,640
gain more perspective on the 
more shows you do and you 

585
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,600
recognize, OK, this is not worth
it. 

586
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,840
Like when you totally let 
yourself go like that, it's just

587
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,120
not worth it. 
So maintaining some degree of, 

588
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,640
you know, routine and structure 
and and leaning on the habits 

589
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,040
that you've introduced 
throughout the prep post show is

590
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:09,160
one of the best things you can 
do. 

591
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,000
Yeah, 100% and and I feel like 
it's one of them things like in 

592
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,640
life, people will tell us to do 
something or we we feel like 

593
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,040
that's probably the smart thing 
to do. 

594
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,800
But we want to like we want to 
break that right. 

595
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,160
We want to make our own 
mistakes. 

596
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,520
So it's like, I feel like we've 
all all less bodybuilders. 

597
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,200
Like no matter who. 
Like if you got a first timer 

598
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,480
and you tell them like listen 
like be careful, like whatever 

599
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,240
you say, I'd be very surprised 
if they actually follow your 

600
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,960
your advice because like none of
us followed that advice. 

601
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,760
We didn't even listen to it. 
It's almost like we've done the 

602
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,280
dieting phase and like Post Show
is like, well, it's my reward 

603
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,320
now to just go and eat 10,000 
calories every day for the next 

604
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,080
three weeks. 
You know, it's like we feel like

605
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,040
like it's something that we're 
we're allowed to do, like we 

606
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:53,840
should do. 
And you're almost like you're 

607
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,480
almost 4 feet in your body just 
because like like you you just 

608
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,680
you just lose like all sense of 
like everything, don't you? 

609
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,320
And I feel like if there is any 
like younger listeners or or or 

610
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,320
like people who want to get into
bodybuilding competitive, like 

611
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,760
if you can just listen to this 
one piece of advice from this 

612
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,840
whole podcast here would be like
like limit yourself to 1015 lbs 

613
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,280
post show period. 
And and you're going to learn a 

614
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,040
lot from that and you're going 
to be in a much better place. 

615
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,680
You just don't make out mistakes
like gaining 50 lbs. 

616
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,480
Like well, your mistake gaining 
8. 

617
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,400
What was it 80 lbs post show? 
I I didn't gain 80 lbs post 

618
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,120
show. 
I lost 80 lbs for my first show,

619
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,120
but then I had. 
Like I. 

620
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,000
Don't remember how heavy I got 
after that first show, but I 

621
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,960
definitely blew up and I just, 
it was not good, man. 

622
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,480
Like it was not good at all. 
But like now, like this show, 

623
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,160
this prep that I just did, I 
started at 182 lbs, and so I had

624
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,760
a much healthier, you know, I 
lost 30 lbs total, roughly, 

625
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:54,720
which is a much. 
Healthy. 

626
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,000
Yeah. 
It was around the same as myself

627
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,000
then at 178, weren't it? 
Yeah, I guess we lost around 

628
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,200
around a similar amount. 
That's that's interesting to 

629
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,960
know, actually. 
And honestly? 

630
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,000
But that's it though. 
I feel like we're all like that,

631
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,560
like people. 
We're obviously doing it the 

632
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,560
smart way. 
And it's probably like our 

633
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,040
markers are very similar, right?
Like, like even we're a couple 

634
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,960
of pounds off from a starting 
weight, which is, which is 

635
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,800
crazy. 
Yeah, 100%, man. 

636
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,679
I feel like for me now, you 
know, looking at myself, I feel 

637
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:26,400
really good at 165 to 170. 
I look really good. 

638
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,320
I'm way leaner now than I was at
the start of my prep. 

639
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,760
So I'll probably hang out here 
for a little bit and then 

640
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,199
probably transition into more of
a surplus. 

641
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,600
But still nothing crazy. 
Like I cannot see myself needing

642
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,480
to get above like 175 lbs. 
Like, there's just not really 

643
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,320
any need for it. 
Yeah. 

644
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,560
And I think that's that's kind 
of the trade off. 

645
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,199
Like I'm like, like I'm the same
like I'm holding around 170 now 

646
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,840
and like I'm, I'm strong here, 
I've got good energy level, good

647
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,320
recovery. 
My food focus is off, but my 

648
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,760
appetite's still relatively 
good. 

649
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,400
If I want to push it some days 
or if I want to pull back some 

650
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,360
days, that's fine. 
And it's like what is going to 

651
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,960
like for me to now gain an extra
10 lbs of body weight? 

652
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,520
Like what's he going to gain me 
like maybe an extra 10 KG on a 

653
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,360
deadlift or or maybe even if 
it's an extra plate. 

654
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,240
But like, does that, is that 
really going to correlate to 

655
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:22,520
like much more muscle mass, 
let's say like, I'm not so sure.

656
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,520
Like you know, and even even if 
it did gain an extra like 1% 

657
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,960
muscle mass, like you've got a 
diet for an extra like what, 10 

658
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,600
weeks then to pull that weight 
back off. 

659
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,960
And what is that going to do to 
that, that that extra 1% of 

660
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,400
muscle mass that you would have 
gained? 

661
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,440
And not only that, like it's bad
for our health, right? 

662
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,120
Like like to gain like a crazy 
amount of weight and then drop a

663
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,400
crazy amount. 
It's not good for our body or 

664
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,640
heart or even like let's say our
skin as bodybuilders want to 

665
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,480
keep our skin tight, right? 
Like you, you don't want to be 

666
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,200
gaining like a crazy amount of 
weight and then dropping back 

667
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,360
down. 
It's not, it's not going to be 

668
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,640
good for that that kind of skin 
look, is it? 

669
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,600
Like, you know when when you get
right, like stage lean wise. 

670
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,280
So I just don't think it's 
beneficial. 

671
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,560
I think, I think every 
individual is going to be 

672
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,360
different. 
But I feel like we've all got 

673
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,760
like kind of that range like 
we're talking about now where 

674
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,560
we're kind of back now and it's 
like as long as we can hang, 

675
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,560
like you said, hang around there
for for for a long time, do some

676
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,280
good work there. 
And like if you want to push a 

677
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,000
little bit more aggressively at 
a point, then that's fine, like,

678
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,680
you know, but don't go go in 
like 20 lbs increase and I'm 

679
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:33,600
going crazy because it's just no
need is it? 

680
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,200
Totally agree, man. 
What? 

681
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,160
What is your average caloric 
intake now? 

682
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,640
So, so I would say, I would say 
on average I'm doing around 2500

683
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,760
calories per day. 
And then like I said like some 

684
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,240
days I might go to like 2000 and
then there might be days where 

685
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:55,280
like I'll I'll do like 4 or 5000
calories, you know. 

686
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:59,120
But then the following day then 
I'm not doing another 4 or 5000 

687
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,840
calories. 
I'm just kind of like dropping 

688
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,080
back the baseline or like even 
even it depends on like what I'm

689
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,400
training, right. 
So like if I'm doing like a rest

690
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,800
day, I might like typically go a
little bit lower calories. 

691
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,720
But then it also depends like 
what I'm going to be trained the

692
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,280
following day. 
So if I plant legs, let's say 

693
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,480
for instance, that the next day 
I'll probably still keep my food

694
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,040
relatively high just to feed 
that, that following day's 

695
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,160
session. 
So it does kind of change, but 

696
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,640
like I would say on average 
around 2500 calories, yeah. 

697
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,160
Yeah, I've been a little bit 
more aggressive with my intake 

698
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,400
here lately. 
So I'm probably averaging around

699
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,160
33134 hundred. 
I've had a couple days that were

700
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,320
8000. 
I've had a few days that were 

701
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,000
4006 thousand. 
But for the most part, I've just

702
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,440
gradually scaled it up from what
I was and I think I got down as 

703
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:57,200
low as about 1800 or so, 19. 
100. 

704
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,640
Yeah, that's about as low as I 
went. 

705
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,680
And my my metabolisms crazy 
high, man. 

706
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:09,520
Like I can pretty much maintain 
this weight at 167 at about 3300

707
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,640
calories a day. 
Like without any low days. 

708
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,560
Like that's pretty much my 
maintenance intake. 

709
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,560
Yeah, mine's mine's a bit lower 
than that. 

710
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,720
So when I was doing my dieting 
Phase, I was going as low as 

711
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:25,680
like kind of 1400 some days in 
the in the prep. 

712
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,520
Yeah, that's pretty. 
Low, yeah. 

713
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,400
And I I wouldn't spend too long 
like that that amount because 

714
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:33,960
obviously it's going to be 
detrimental. 

715
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:39,400
But yeah, I would do like like 
17118 hundred days and then I 

716
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,640
might throw in a couple of like 
1400 days like do you know what 

717
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:48,240
I mean just because just to just
to get that condition but but 

718
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,960
but I was just sticking to the 
rate of loss per week. 

719
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,960
So that was my main goal like as
long as I was in within that 1%,

720
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,200
no more than 1% rate loss per 
week I was, I was relatively 

721
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,000
happy, happy with that. 
But yeah I'm not, I'm not, I'm 

722
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,440
not new to that. 
I've done like 13-14 hundred 

723
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,760
calorie days in previous diets 
and previous preps before. 

724
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,800
So obviously our metabolisms are
slightly different when it comes

725
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,360
to that I guess, right? 
Yeah, we're all, we're all 

726
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,600
different there for sure. 
And what what kind of foods you 

727
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,360
typically like? 
You're not doing keto, so you're

728
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,480
still doing a good amount of 
carbohydrates. 

729
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,720
Like what kind of foods are 
you're comprising your meals out

730
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:30,240
of? 
Yeah. 

731
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:34,960
So typically I would just have 
like my first meal of the day is

732
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,720
going to be like eggs, oats and 
whey protein with that chocolate

733
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:44,480
and some frozen fruit. 
And then I'll do, like 

734
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:47,560
throughout the day. 
Then I'll run like basically 

735
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,560
just chicken. 
I don't like chicken. 

736
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,640
And what I was eating a lot of 
is rice cakes, believe it or 

737
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,680
not. 
Yeah. 

738
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,080
That's just like there's, I 
don't know if you've seen it, 

739
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,240
snack a Jack rice cakes. 
Yeah. 

740
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,560
So they, they got, they got 
these like packs and they only 

741
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,720
got the big, the big packs or 
the small packs. 

742
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,760
And I know it's not like it's 
not like clean, let's say, 

743
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,920
right. 
Like like I was even asking 

744
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,040
myself this throughout the 
dieting phase and I was like. 

745
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,960
Surely it's better for me to eat
rice or potato now. 

746
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,400
And like, I'm not saying like 
every day was the rice cakes. 

747
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,560
Like some days I would have rice
and potato, right? 

748
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,000
But but like a lot of the time 
throughout the prep, I was just 

749
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,600
eating these rice cakes with my 
chicken. 

750
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,160
So I'd have like chicken breasts
and then these rice cakes, 

751
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,600
because I I like the taste of 
them. 

752
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,720
They're easy to like kind of 
like I don't even need to 

753
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:37,800
prepare them, right? 
They're just they're good to go.

754
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,040
Like if I'm if I'm out training 
clients or something in the gym,

755
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,800
I can just grab them and I don't
even need to heat them up, you 

756
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,680
know, It's just they're they're 
good to go. 

757
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,200
And again, I mean they they 
contain like each pack was like 

758
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,760
1g of fat and it's like 27 grams
of carbohydrates and there was a

759
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,120
tiny, there's a small amount of 
sugar in there. 

760
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,400
But the way I was looking at it 
was like, I'm losing, I'm losing

761
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,600
body fat. 
Like I'm feeling good. 

762
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,800
Energy was going good. 
The prep was going good. 

763
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,240
I was liking my look and and how
everything was going. 

764
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,080
So I was like just keep just 
keep doing this. 

765
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,600
Like you know, I mean I've done 
Diet Phases in the past where I 

766
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,240
literally didn't have anything 
outside of what you would say is

767
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:23,920
like typically clean like for 
the entire 3-4 months, you know,

768
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,760
and and that wasn't the best 
look for myself like this, this 

769
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,720
prep was the best look that I've
ever had. 

770
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:34,560
So I I just followed that 
strategy and I and I kept using 

771
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,080
that into wolves. 
And I mean I was still having 

772
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,080
the rice cakes and then I would 
get to the evening. 

773
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,120
Then I would, I would I would 
usually run the same like I'd 

774
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,680
have like oats and whey again in
the evening. 

775
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,000
So before bed like I like that 
meal like so I'd have it at the 

776
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,320
start of the day and then at the
evening as well and that's 

777
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,840
pretty much it for for most of 
it. 

778
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,440
And then on my higher 
carbohydrate days. 

779
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,200
So if I would run like a like a 
like a high day, I I would add 

780
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,520
add in things like cereal, I 
would add cereal, I'd have like 

781
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,360
bagels. 
Trying to think what else? 

782
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:11,440
So you're doing pretty low fat 
then throughout the the majority

783
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,760
of the prep, like how how low do
you have your fat grams? 

784
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,040
Yeah. 
So typically with the fat 

785
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:22,200
intake, I I was trying to stick 
around about that 45 gram like 

786
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,400
some some days we'd go up a 
little bit higher 50 grams, 60 

787
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,040
grams. 
But but I would say with most of

788
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,160
the time is around 45 grams. 
Yeah, I like I didn't want to go

789
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,720
to like I've done preps again in
the past where I've dropped my 

790
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,280
fat like down like stupid 
levels. 

791
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,040
But I feel like we we well, I 
know we need a minimum intake of

792
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,080
fat intake per day right. 
Like fats are also important. 

793
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,920
So like, I definitely bumped it 
up. 

794
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,440
Like I said, most of my days are
on 4550G and I and I feel like 

795
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,240
that was a decent amount based 
on my my body weight. 

796
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:58,600
They they just keep me at Bay, 
you know? 

797
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,800
So we're pretty much inverse on 
the macros 'cause my carbs were 

798
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,680
never really above 20 total 
carbs. 

799
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,760
Yeah, and my my fat never got 
below 125g for my fat. 

800
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,400
Yeah it's it's mental in it and 
what what I find like that's why

801
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,240
when I met yourself and you and 
you mentioned about keto and and

802
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:22,560
I was like oh so there's no carb
effect and it's like there was 

803
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,520
there was a carb but it comes 
from obviously your protein and 

804
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,080
your fats like sort of thing. 
But I I was interested to ask 

805
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,680
you about that actually. 
Like so obviously when we're, 

806
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,000
when we're trying to fill out 
muscle glycogen you're you're 

807
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,280
eating so much fat obviously in 
the in the muscle cells we've 

808
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,240
got triglycerides, so it's some 
fat there, some fat stores 

809
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:48,080
there, right. 
But would your body just then 

810
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,120
convert the protein into 
glycogen? 

811
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,320
Basically, right? 
Like the excess because you're 

812
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,720
eating so much protein and so 
much fat in an excessive amount?

813
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,600
Honestly, we'll compare that. 
Protein was relatively low, like

814
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:05,920
my protein got as low as I think
100 grams on the towards the end

815
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,000
of the prep. 
So my fat stayed relatively 

816
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,240
high. 
My protein got down to 100 grams

817
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,640
there at the very end. 
But I mean, when you become fat 

818
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:18,040
adapted, your body doesn't 
deplete muscle glycogen as 

819
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,000
readily. 
So you're able to preserve the 

820
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,560
muscle glycogen you have. 
And then you can add additional 

821
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,720
muscle glycogen via the 
gluconeogenesis from that 

822
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:29,800
protein conversion and also from
the glycerol backbone of the, 

823
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,320
you know, fats that you're 
consuming. 

824
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,680
So I never felt like a lot of 
people that are coming from the 

825
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,520
bodybuilding space assume that 
you're going to be really flat 

826
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,120
and depleted and have 0 glycogen
reserve if you don't eat carbs. 

827
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,760
But once you become fat adapted,
that's not really an issue. 

828
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,160
Now what a lot of people make 
the mistake of doing is they'll 

829
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,000
they'll try to do, yeah, they'll
try, they'll drop their fats too

830
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,640
low or they'll try and do keto 
during the last little bit of a 

831
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,560
prep, in which case they're not 
yet fat adapted, so they're not 

832
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,480
really able to capitalize on 
that protocol. 

833
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:06,000
But if you go into the prep, 
then you're good. 

834
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,720
So as long as as long as you're 
in a surplus. 

835
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,520
When when it comes to carbon up 
for a show like that, I said 

836
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,160
carbon up and you're not carbon 
up, but when you're trying to 

837
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,800
fill out, I guess it's the main 
thing is just eating in a 

838
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,080
surplus then? 
Yeah, so I'll like have you know

839
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:27,760
a a bolus of fat and protein the
the day before as my refeed meal

840
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,120
or two days before kind of 
depending on how my body's 

841
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,520
responding. 
I did some some weeks, some peak

842
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,440
weeks. 
This past prep I was having like

843
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,640
a refeed pretty much every 
night, the week of the prep 

844
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,320
coming from fat and protein. 
But again, there was no 

845
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,920
additional carbs like it was 
pretty much for me ground lamb 

846
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,080
with duck fat and maybe an 
additional keto brick. 

847
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,240
So like all fats and proteins, 
and my body just soaked that up 

848
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:56,360
and responded really well. 
And because there's no carbs, 

849
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,120
there was never really any risk 
of me overshooting it and 

850
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,280
spilling over. 
So I feel like it's a safer 

851
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,120
approach because you don't have 
to risk spilling over. 

852
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,200
Yeah, yeah. 
So interesting to to kind of 

853
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,840
hear a different perspective, I 
mean outside of like the norm 

854
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,280
and it just goes to show that 
there's many ways what's that 

855
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,680
saying there's many ways to skin
a cat. 

856
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,360
You know it's like there is, 
there is many ways of doing this

857
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,760
you know and and obviously your 
finished look was was just as 

858
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,440
good as any any of ours on the 
day. 

859
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:32,280
So it clearly works, you know, 
and yeah, it's just interesting.

860
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,320
I always say like obviously I'm 
a personal trainer, online coach

861
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,080
myself. 
I say to clients, they say to me

862
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,880
like Lewis, like, is keto good? 
Is this good? 

863
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,880
And I say to them like, I mean, 
the best thing for me would be 

864
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,560
like keep your options open. 
But like if. 

865
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,240
But the the best thing is like, 
do what works for you. 

866
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,800
You know, if if you find, like 
you operate better or for 

867
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,960
whatever reason you want to do 
keto and then do keto, you know,

868
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,200
like every diet works, right? 
As long as you can stick to it, 

869
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:02,480
Yeah. 
So it's like. 

870
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,000
Sustainability. 
The main thing is, yeah, the 

871
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,280
main thing is just the D runs 
and like like what you what you 

872
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,880
enjoy more of I guess. 
Like I like, I like eating 

873
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,720
carbohydrates, you know? 
So and my I find I feel like my 

874
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:19,000
body responds better to a higher
carbohydrate intake than than a 

875
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,320
higher fat intake. 
So that's just what I kind of 

876
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,880
roll with, you know? 
But yeah, it's just each to 

877
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,880
their own, really. 
I bet the good thing is there's 

878
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,520
multiple options to this, right?
Yeah, 100%. 

879
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,680
I don't ever want to be dogmatic
in my nutritional beliefs, cause

880
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,720
a lot of people get that way and
they just assume that there's 

881
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:38,080
only one way to do things. 
But I mean there's been people 

882
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,520
that have been getting lean with
a variety of diets for a long 

883
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,000
time, so that's a very short 
sighted view. 

884
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,920
Out of curiosity, what does your
nutrition look like now? 

885
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:49,560
I mean, are you still doing like
chicken breasts and rice cakes, 

886
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,040
or are you doing a lot a lot 
more different foods? 

887
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,640
Yeah, so I'm pretty, I'm pretty 
much like I'm eating the same 

888
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,120
thing. 
So some things that have 

889
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,320
changed, like everything I just 
said, I was eating all the prep.

890
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,360
I'll wake up in the morning, 
have eggs. 

891
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,600
So for instance, like when I was
dieting, I think I was doing 

892
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,240
like 2 egg, egg, whole eggs, and
then I'll do 2 egg whites, 

893
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:12,640
right? 
That was my that was my egg 

894
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,520
meal. 
Now I'm doing just three whole 

895
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,000
eggs every day. 
So I'll have three whole eggs 

896
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,800
and then my oats are like about 
the same amount. 

897
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,880
But I haven't really changed 
that too much. 

898
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:28,160
And then what I'm doing with my 
chicken meals now is I buy like 

899
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,280
these burger buns, right, The 
bread, like the bread rolls. 

900
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,160
And I literally just like put my
chicken inside them and I'll 

901
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,920
have like, so I'll have my 
chicken breast and and like a 

902
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,440
burger, a bun like bread roll, 
you know, and and that's what 

903
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,240
I've been doing. 
And then and then I've also been

904
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,600
just doing the rice cakes, but 
I'm obviously eating more of the

905
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,800
rice cakes now. 
So like when I when I was 

906
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,800
dieting, like I'd love to see 
limits when every meal I was 

907
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,200
having rice cakes, you know if 
my cabs were lower that day or 

908
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,880
whatever. 
Whereas now in the in the in the

909
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,320
offseason setting like every 
meal I'm basically having 

910
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,040
carbohydrates with you know 
there's not going to be, even 

911
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,200
even if I'm dropping my calories
down, like I'm not going to have

912
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,960
a meal where it's just protein 
and veggies. 

913
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,840
Like every meal is going to is 
pretty much going to be 

914
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,680
carbohydrates in. 
And then obviously then like I'm

915
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,400
just throwing in a lot more of 
cheat meals and stuff. 

916
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,760
So like like what my rule is 
when it comes to cheat meals 

917
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:27,480
like like I don't have sugar. 
Like my rule is no sugar until 

918
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,320
the evening. 
Like that's one of my rules, 

919
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,120
like until the last meal of the 
day, no sugar because I know 

920
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,720
once I start having sugar it 
just kind of froze everything 

921
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:37,240
else off and I'll just binge my 
diet, let's say, right. 

922
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,840
So that's my kind of if I'm 
going to have like any sugar, 

923
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,000
it's going to come in the 
evening and my last meal of the 

924
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,480
day. 
So I'll I'll I'll if if I decide

925
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,760
to have a cheat meal one day, 
I'll I'll eat the rest of my 

926
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,240
meals will be cleaner throughout
the day and I might drop my 

927
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:55,240
carbohydrates out slightly. 
And then I get that evening 

928
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:58,160
meal, which I'll order like, I 
don't know, burger and chips or 

929
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,120
something. 
And then I'll have like, I'll 

930
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,000
have even. 
It sounds bad, but I'll just be 

931
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,320
honest, you know, And I'll have 
like, I'll have like a big tub 

932
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:11,200
of ice cream and then maybe like
like a big box of cookies or 

933
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,480
something, you know, Yeah. 
And and then and then then the 

934
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,160
next day I'll just be back on my
diet again. 

935
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:21,080
Like I say, diet, but just back 
on the normal kind of normal 

936
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:23,960
calorie amount and and 
everything that I've been used 

937
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,960
to eating. 
I think one of the important 

938
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,960
things that you said here is 
that you know apart from the 

939
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,720
cheat meals, but you're you're 
are moderating. 

940
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:32,720
It's like you're letting 
yourself go ad libitum with ice 

941
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:36,520
cream, but you're keeping the 
types of foods pretty 

942
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,600
consistent. 
Whether you're in prep or not, 

943
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,080
You just change the quantities. 
And I think that's key because, 

944
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,280
like for me, I'm eating the 
exact same things I was during 

945
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,120
the prep, just more of it. 
And I feel like a lot of people 

946
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,960
make the mistake of totally 
changing the food types from 

947
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,000
prep versus offseason. 
And that's where a lot of them, 

948
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,520
you know, go astray because they
don't have that simplicity. 

949
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,680
They don't have that. 
They've they've got more options

950
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,600
and that creates more decision 
fatigue and just more 

951
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,080
overwhelming, more likelihood 
for deviating. 

952
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,000
But if you're keeping the types 
of foods relatively consistent, 

953
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,680
whether you're in a prep or not,
which you should, I mean, it's a

954
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,080
lifestyle, so there shouldn't be
this stark contrast. 

955
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,040
So I think that's good for sure.
Yeah. 

956
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,400
And I think that spills over to 
other areas as well. 

957
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,000
Like like we we can talk about 
the training and stuff like like

958
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:30,360
if if you're you're finishing a 
prep phase and like we're 

959
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,040
obviously professionals for like
we're going to treat it a little

960
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,520
bit differently. 
And I kind of feel like, like 

961
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,560
you said, it's not like a 
lifestyle, but maybe like if 

962
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,040
we're acting like an amateur or 
something, we're like, yeah, 

963
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,480
when I was an amateur, I'd 
finished like the prep and I'd 

964
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,720
be lost like be like what? 
Well, what am I doing now? 

965
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:50,360
Like, whereas when you're like 
when we fully committed to this 

966
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,440
and I was acting like a 
professional before I came a 

967
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,760
professional, right, Like that's
how I became a professional 

968
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,320
because like I finished my 
prayer and and I'd be like, OK, 

969
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,720
then what's next? 
OK, like you said, we're 

970
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:05,640
sticking on the similar meals 
for just more of it and then 

971
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:10,160
it's like training, OK, focus 
now is going to going to focus 

972
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,400
on on training. 
Like, what are the areas of my 

973
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,040
physique I'm trying to bring up 
more of? 

974
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,280
And then it's like, like if 
we're doing a prep, we're doing 

975
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,760
like, let's say 10,000 steps a 
day and we're doing a cardio 

976
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,040
every day. 
All right? 

977
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,280
Like, we don't need to do cardio
every day. 

978
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,880
Now we're going into an 
offseason setting, but let's 

979
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,760
still keep some structure in 
place and do cardio for overall 

980
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,040
health, for mental health, you 
know, just to keep active. 

981
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,400
Like, we're athletes, yeah, 
we're professional bodybuilders.

982
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,680
So we need to act like it like, 
and it gives you some structure 

983
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,960
to your life then where you're 
not just, like going off the 

984
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,480
rails drinking alcohol and just 
being like, oh, throwing in the 

985
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,920
towel like, well, I'm, I'm not 
on prep now, so I'm not a 

986
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,880
professional bodybuilder. 
No, you're a professional 

987
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,800
bodybuilder all the time. 
And even if you're an amateur 

988
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:54,800
and if you want to be a 
professional, you need to act 

989
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,160
like a professional all the 
time, whether you're in 

990
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,000
offseason or on season. 
It doesn't matter right? 

991
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,280
Like like you should be going 
into that gym and and and 

992
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,600
structuring your training 
programme like with intent, like

993
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,680
to make real progress, you know 
to improve like and and and and 

994
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,440
that that leads with like we 
said the diet, like steps for 

995
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,720
instance. 
If you're used to doing 10,000 

996
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:19,720
or 15,000 on a diet place like 
set yourself for amount of step 

997
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:21,880
count that you want to do, it's 
going to be less. 

998
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,880
But you still have that 
structure in place, then that is

999
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,960
going to keep yourself 
accountable, to live in the 

1000
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,320
bodybuilding lifestyle. 
Because we're all going to step 

1001
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,040
on stage again at some point, 
right? 

1002
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,600
And we don't want to step on 
stage looking the same as what 

1003
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,080
we did two years ago. 
Like we want to, we want to go 

1004
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,480
and look back at photos and be 
like, wow, yeah, we we 

1005
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,640
definitely made progress. 
It might be 3 lbs because we're 

1006
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,800
natural, but at least we made 
progress, right? 

1007
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:51,320
Like. 
I think. 

1008
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,680
We don't want to be going. 
Back is absolutely key man. 

1009
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,600
And this this holds true whether
it's bodybuilding or or anything

1010
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,600
in life. 
Like figure out who you want to 

1011
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,480
be and what you want to stand 
for, and then act like that 

1012
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,000
before you get to that level. 
Because. 

1013
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,800
Live by that. 
Yeah, live by that. 

1014
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:11,720
That's what's going to get you 
to that level. 

1015
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:14,680
So many people go through life 
and I, oh, I'm going to change 

1016
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,400
XY or Z when I get to this 
point. 

1017
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,720
It's like, no, no, that's the 
complete backwards way of 

1018
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:21,040
looking at. 
You got to act like the 

1019
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,080
professional that you want to be
now so that you can become the 

1020
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,680
professional you want to be. 
Yeah I was. 

1021
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,200
I was like I was looking before 
I turned pro, right? 

1022
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,040
I was like obviously we both 
compete in the WNBF. 

1023
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,400
Like I've not actually competed 
in any of it. 

1024
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,840
I've competed 1 federation which
was my first show in Dubai, but 

1025
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,920
it was an untested event. 
It was just it was a random like

1026
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,480
crappy level show and I just did
a fun experience. 

1027
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:52,080
But my my when I looked into 
natural bodybuilding I was like 

1028
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,600
for me the WNBF is the is is the
real true federation. 

1029
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,920
Like I mean the the so so that 
was what I was striving for. 

1030
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:03,560
And then like like we were 
talking about then like I I I 

1031
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,560
didn't even get my pro card. 
Like when when I did my first 

1032
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,280
show and I went into a two year 
offseason I was like, I want to 

1033
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,240
be a professional. 
I want to I want to win my pro 

1034
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:15,760
card in the WNBF. 
But I wasn't living like it like

1035
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,280
if someone said to me like OK 
like what are you doing? 

1036
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,720
And like, I was going out 
drinking alcohol still. 

1037
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:22,560
I was like, I was getting 
wasted. 

1038
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,800
And I was like, like every week,
like almost. 

1039
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,800
And I was like, like looking 
back, I was like, no wonder you 

1040
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,400
didn't make much progress. 
Like what? 

1041
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,640
What were you thinking? 
And then no wonder my body 

1042
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,320
weight went up to two or 5 lbs. 
And it's like, yeah, I want to 

1043
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,880
be a professional, but I wasn't 
living like it. 

1044
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,320
So then when I went to Worlds 
last year as an amateur and I 

1045
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:45,000
conferred and I went away from 
that show, something changed 

1046
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,200
inside and I was just like, 
yeah, this. 

1047
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,480
I want this. 
Like I want this pro card. 

1048
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,720
Like I'm going to get and I'm 
going to act like, like I need 

1049
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,920
to be to get it, you know? 
And I was just listening to so 

1050
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,720
many podcasts like in the in the
natural bodybuilding space, you 

1051
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,360
know and and I was just on 
Instagram and I would follow 

1052
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,680
like whenever I've seen a W MB F
Pro in someone's title on 

1053
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,720
Instagram, I'd follow them. 
And I literally just started 

1054
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:14,120
mass following like all WMBF Pro
bodybuilders and and and not all

1055
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:15,720
of them I agreed with. 
Not all of them. 

1056
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:19,760
I liked it to Zeke but all But I
was just trying to like what can

1057
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,960
I learn from this person who's 
got something that I'm trying to

1058
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,920
strive for. 
And I and I just did that and I 

1059
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:27,960
took a little bit from them. 
I took a little bit from them. 

1060
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,360
I just applied it to my own kind
of life, then in training, and 

1061
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,840
then I became WMF Pro 
bodybuilders, you know, I mean, 

1062
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,520
but it wasn't like random. 
It was, It was. 

1063
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,160
It was a sequel to that, you 
know? 

1064
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:45,120
It was like I was following that
people that had been there and 

1065
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,080
done it and and I was I was 
living my life day in day out 

1066
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,920
like it for multiple months and 
months and months you know and 

1067
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,320
and and then I just applied it 
and and then it kind of worked 

1068
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,840
out for me you know in the end 
which which I'm grateful for. 

1069
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,640
No, I totally agree, man. 
I love it. 

1070
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,960
Like that's what it takes. 
You got to reverse engineer who 

1071
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,400
you want to become and then just
start living those principles 

1072
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,480
now before you get there. 
Otherwise you're just going to 

1073
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,320
be spinning your wheels in 
perpetuity, so. 

1074
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,720
Which then years. 
Yeah, wasting your like, the 

1075
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:15,920
time's gonna pass anyways, so 
you might as well fill that time

1076
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,160
doing the things that you know 
are going to contribute to your 

1077
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,120
overall betterment. 
So yeah, 100% what? 

1078
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,200
What do you do now? 
Like when you're in the building

1079
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,720
phase like you are now? 
Are you tracking your macros and

1080
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,680
your training as closely? 
Are you more loose? 

1081
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,960
Like do you train intuitively or
do you track that as well? 

1082
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,240
Like how do you kind of 
structure that? 

1083
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,800
So so again, when? 
When I when I when I finished, 

1084
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:45,760
When I went to WMF World as an 
amateur and I finished, I I was.

1085
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,040
I was more strict with my diet. 
Like I wasn't. 

1086
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,120
I wasn't gaining crazy amounts 
of body weight. 

1087
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,840
But I wasn't also tracking so 
much. 

1088
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,320
Like I I would go from tracking 
my body weight every day in a 

1089
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,920
prep and then the minute I'd 
finished my show I'm like, I'm 

1090
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,600
probably going to track once a 
week and then that once a week 

1091
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,760
would then turn to maybe once 
every couple of weeks tracking 

1092
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,480
the body weight. 
And I just wasn't really. 

1093
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,920
I was less stable. 
I was still a lot better than 

1094
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,520
before and I was living the 
lifestyle and that. 

1095
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,480
But I wasn't tracking as much. 
And now I've gone into this 

1096
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,160
habit like since well, since I 
was a professional, like when 

1097
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,280
the pro card And then even after
this this world show, I 

1098
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:24,840
literally track everything 
still. 

1099
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,480
Like, I just feel like I got 
Peace of Mind then like like I 

1100
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,000
don't really need to but I want 
to. 

1101
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,560
It's going to help me plan my 
next day there. 

1102
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:38,000
Plan that current day there. 
So I literally, I track my scale

1103
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,560
weight every day. 
Every morning I'm tracking my 

1104
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,840
calories in my fitness pile. 
But it's not like I'll track 

1105
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,640
like my 4 meals of the day. 
And if I'm having a cheat meal, 

1106
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,960
I won't input that cheat meal 
into the app, let's say, right. 

1107
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,840
I'll make sure that my protein 
intakes hit. 

1108
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,080
So I'll get to like 150 grams. 
And then I'm like, right, I got 

1109
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,720
a cheat meal now it's probably 
going to be around 4050 grams of

1110
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:03,960
protein in that. 
That's going to put me up to 200

1111
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,520
Gray. 
And then the excess of fat and 

1112
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,560
carbohydrates, that's going to 
spill me over. 

1113
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,760
But but great, I'll be back on 
the diet the next day. 

1114
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,560
So I kind of like I track most 
things and then like there's a 

1115
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:20,320
little bit of room for error 
there, which I feel like it's 

1116
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,760
just better for Peace of Mind 
that I'm not tracking the the 

1117
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,200
amount of sauce I'm putting on a
burger or even the amount of fat

1118
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,280
intake that I'm getting on a 
cheap but let's say. 

1119
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,320
But the most majority of the 
time I'm tracking, I am tracking

1120
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:34,960
things. 
And then when it comes to 

1121
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,760
training, I've always been 
someone that kind of like, is it

1122
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,080
like intuitive trainer? 
Like I don't have a log book. 

1123
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,600
I go off feel for like 
movements, I go off feel for 

1124
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,600
exercises. 
I don't go in the gym with like 

1125
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,280
a like a laid out structure, 
let's say. 

1126
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,920
But I've got a rough idea in my 
head of what exercise I want to 

1127
00:59:54,920 --> 01:00:00,840
do on each given day before I go
into the gym, but again, since 

1128
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,040
I've competed at Worlds. 
And what I've started 

1129
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:08,600
implementing and doing now is I 
am tracking so like I'll put on 

1130
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,440
my own sheets that I use for 
like Google Sheets I use for 

1131
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:12,160
clients. 
I'll put. 

1132
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,640
Like for instance if I did legs,
I do like I'd put I'd write on 

1133
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,800
their legs and then I'd be like 
what I did for Babel Squad. 

1134
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,360
So if I did a heavy idea like 
I'd track what what heavy idea I

1135
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,760
did for the amount of reps you 
know. 

1136
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,680
And I'm just like writing 
certain exercises that I feel 

1137
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,920
that I want to progress, that I 
need to progress, that I need to

1138
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,920
write down Or if a movement felt
really good for me, I'd be like 

1139
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,040
I put like a tick next to this 
movement like this felt good and

1140
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,320
and give some feedback and write
some stuff in. 

1141
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,280
So I am being a little bit more 
structured but like if there's 

1142
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,440
any logbook people out there I 
don't know if yourself if you do

1143
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,960
that like you're probably 
listening to this thinking like 

1144
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,080
he doesn't follow a structure at
all you know. 

1145
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,640
But for me, even just starting 
to write down the amount of 

1146
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,880
weight that I'm lifting, that is
like more structure than I've 

1147
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,240
ever had before. 
Because usually, like I'll have 

1148
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,560
a rough idea of the lift that 
I'm that I'm previously lifting 

1149
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:09,000
on these bigger compound 
movements and I'll know where 

1150
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,440
I'm lifting on certain exercises
and I'll just try and push my 

1151
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,720
body close to failure on them. 
Exercises. 

1152
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,320
Yeah, any given day. 
That's pretty much me too. 

1153
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,480
Like I've I've always trained 
intuitively. 

1154
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,680
I've known kind of what lifts 
I've hit in the past and what I 

1155
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,680
need to be to implement 
progressive overload. 

1156
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,520
I just started tracking my 
training consistently this year,

1157
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,280
like 2024. 
In January I pretty much started

1158
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,040
tracking that. 
I'm building out a a workout app

1159
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,800
right now, so I wanted to have 
that data and I don't know if 

1160
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,680
I'll stick with tracking the 
exercises for long. 

1161
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,160
I'm just kind of playing around 
with it right now. 

1162
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:46,120
I like having that data, but 
I've always trained intuitively 

1163
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,600
up to this point, so I totally 
get where you're coming from 

1164
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,840
there. 
Yeah, I feel like it's that 

1165
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:52,640
there's going to be a balance to
it Robert. 

1166
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:56,600
And it's like it's like we don't
need to swing full all the way 

1167
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,880
to the other side of the 
spectrum log book and everything

1168
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,760
progressing everything. 
But we also as professionals, we

1169
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,000
can be like if we're really 
trying to progress certain 

1170
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,880
muscle groups or like, like 
we're at a top level now, right?

1171
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:13,120
Like WMF world's like on stage 
with like elite level athletes, 

1172
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,360
right. 
Like we can't afford to be just 

1173
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,760
like kind of winging it like we 
used to do in the past. 

1174
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,840
Yeah. 
Where where we can have too much

1175
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,840
freedom with when it comes to 
pushing body weight up when it's

1176
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,040
the diet or the training. 
So I feel like you've got to 

1177
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,680
find like your own balance 
because the most important thing

1178
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,680
we need to enjoy it, right, Like
the for for us to get the most 

1179
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,480
progress out of out of our 
training, out of our diet, out 

1180
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,040
of everything, out of the 
livestock. 

1181
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,320
We have to enjoy it because if 
we enjoy it, we're going to do 

1182
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:41,000
it better. 
We're going to do it for longer,

1183
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,360
right? 
We're going to do it in just 

1184
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,800
just improved in all different 
areas if we're enjoying it. 

1185
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,120
So I feel like that's a key part
of the process is that make sure

1186
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:54,000
you enjoy it and and then like 
apply the structure that is 

1187
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,520
needed where it's needed. 
You know, like if I'm if I, if 

1188
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:02,320
I'm squatting 140 KG one week, I
can't be going in the gym the 

1189
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,000
following week and squatting 
100. 

1190
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,000
You know, it's just like that. 
That's like that's not good 

1191
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:10,120
enough, you know, like, but it's
not to say that I need to be 

1192
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,280
doing 150 the following week 
just to progress my logbook. 

1193
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,800
Like maybe I was tired, tired. 
Maybe I was tired going into 

1194
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,920
that session. 
Maybe my sleep was bad that the 

1195
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:23,000
following day might maybe my 
nutrition was off slightly then 

1196
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,040
pushed like 120 for more reps, 
let's say. 

1197
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,800
Or maybe my knee felt a bit like
not not great. 

1198
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:33,120
You know that that that's it 
like go a little bit lower, but 

1199
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,760
you're not like jump in like 2 
plates off or whatever. 

1200
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,560
So there's that little bit of 
structure there, but there's 

1201
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:43,080
still that flexibility where 
we're we're able to kind of 

1202
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,720
enjoy it, right, because that's 
why we all, that's why we all 

1203
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:47,760
started. 
This was for enjoyment. 

1204
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,240
Yeah, 100% like you got to, you 
got to have enough structure to 

1205
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,320
make sure that you're trending 
in the right direction over 

1206
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,560
time, but you've got to have 
enough flexibility and be able 

1207
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:01,520
to just know your body enough 
and well enough to to be 

1208
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,880
adaptable when it it calls for 
times of being adaptable. 

1209
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,760
Like if you've got an injury, if
you didn't sleep as well, like 

1210
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,400
you have to have a little bit of
nuance there for sure. 

1211
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,120
But honestly, the more I've been
into this lifestyle, the the 

1212
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:17,560
more mature I've gotten as a 
competitive athlete, the more 

1213
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:21,160
I've enjoyed the structure 
because I can see how the 

1214
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:23,840
structure leads to the progress 
and you fall in love with that 

1215
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,120
progress and then you just fall 
in love with the entire process 

1216
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,760
that it takes to get there. 
So I I used to probably be 

1217
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,240
frustrated with the the level of
detail associated with the 

1218
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,480
tracking, but now I I just kind 
of enjoy it more than anything. 

1219
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:42,600
Yeah I I I feel like yeah if if 
you can find that good balance 

1220
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:47,400
like definitely like that that's
that's going to play a better 

1221
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,880
role in in the progression. 
But I just feel like there's 

1222
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,280
certain like I'm not against log
booking like for but for some 

1223
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,040
people they they they need that 
log booking like if you took 

1224
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,640
them through a intuitive 
session, they'd have a terrible 

1225
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,280
session. 
They've and they've probably 

1226
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,560
their week will be messed up for
the whole week because of it, 

1227
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,080
you know. 
So there is certain individuals 

1228
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,120
that they need more of that 
structure. 

1229
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:15,480
But I feel like again, they take
it too far on the spectrum where

1230
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,440
it can be actually dangerous and
they're just not feeling the 

1231
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,120
muscle on certain lists because 
they're so focused on that that 

1232
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:27,120
progression going up like where 
they don't cater for that, that 

1233
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,200
that room for error or that room
for flexibility a little bit. 

1234
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,600
But I I feel it's just a balance
to it, right. 

1235
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,200
But but you're 100% right about 
about the, the structure. 

1236
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:42,640
I mean, yeah, when you see your,
your physique changing, it just 

1237
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,720
makes you want to want to be 
more on everything, right? 

1238
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:47,480
Like you don't want to binge 
your diet. 

1239
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:49,680
You don't want to slack the 
workouts. 

1240
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:53,520
You want to keep pushing and and
and go in like you said trending

1241
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:57,120
in that right direction. 100% So
let me ask you this man, now 

1242
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,840
that you and I are both done 
with the 2023 season and the 

1243
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,280
shows behind us. 
We're both professional athletes

1244
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:09,200
now and the all consuming nature
of a prep is officially over. 

1245
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,880
We're still doing everything 
that we do to progress 

1246
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,720
obviously, but what? 
What is something in your life 

1247
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,720
outside of bodybuilding that 
you're now going to be able to 

1248
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,000
focus more on, that you're super
excited about? 

1249
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:27,360
So, so for myself, I mean it's 
it's just it's kind of linked 

1250
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,800
with bodybuilding but but it's 
just focusing on business. 

1251
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:35,600
So like trying to progress my 
business, which I'm an online 

1252
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,360
coach and personal trainer. 
You know, just just showcasing 

1253
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,400
what I know and what I've 
learned to try and to help 

1254
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:48,920
others and improve their life 
through that, you know, and it's

1255
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:53,600
like, I want to, I want to like 
there's so much stuff online 

1256
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,840
when it comes to like physique 
development and the fitness 

1257
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:02,280
industry and like just like fat 
loss and diet and so on. 

1258
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:07,560
I just want to kind of put my 
stamp on on the industry, you 

1259
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,800
know, And kind of because 
there's a lot of stuff out there

1260
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,440
which it kind of scares people 
away and like or it sends people

1261
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,000
down the wrong paths. 
And like especially as that's 

1262
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:21,880
like natural bodybuilds. 
I feel like it's it's something 

1263
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,200
that we like. 
We owe it to the to the 

1264
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,640
youngsters coming up and stuff 
but we need to give them an 

1265
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:30,480
option to that. 
There is a route down this path,

1266
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:34,120
you know, and I know, I know you
asked me this question that is 

1267
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,480
like the preps over now like it 
take anything outside of 

1268
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,440
bodybuilding and I've just 
brought it back to bodybuilding 

1269
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,520
because because this is my 
passion mate. 

1270
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,920
You know, it's like, I find it 
like hard to kind of like, I 

1271
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,160
like watching football and 
stuff, but but yeah, this is 

1272
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,000
just, this is what I love, man. 
Like this. 

1273
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,680
I love, I love physique 
development, I love coaching 

1274
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,040
clients, helping others, and I 
love bodybuilding. 

1275
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,920
So it's like, even though I'm 
not competing now and I'm not, 

1276
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,720
I'm prepping for that next show 
already, mate. 

1277
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,840
Like I'm, I'm getting ready for 
that show, you know, regardless.

1278
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,960
But I guess, like living, 
living, living more of a like a 

1279
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,240
kind of, let's say, normal. 
We're always on things, right? 

1280
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:20,720
But it is going to be meals off 
plan most you get to enjoy that 

1281
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:24,640
with your girlfriend maybe 
potential like book a holiday 

1282
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:29,000
this year not a holiday where I 
go and compete somewhere it's 

1283
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,880
actually going to be a proper 
holiday probably where I get to 

1284
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,920
just to just to go and relax and
go somewhere where I want to go.

1285
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:38,840
So yeah I'm looking forward to 
kind of being able to travel a 

1286
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:44,120
little bit free free that free 
and kind of yeah just growing 

1287
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:48,200
like I said growing the business
side of things and trying to 

1288
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:53,000
spread my message and and my 
knowledge to help others you 

1289
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,000
know and grow natural 
bodybuilding. 

1290
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,560
I feel like we I feel like we've
all got a duty mate like as as 

1291
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,920
as if we really care about this 
sport. 

1292
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,319
Like it's not just that we, we 
like to like say the promoters 

1293
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:06,319
and these federations they need 
to be doing more. 

1294
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:10,600
But I feel like, I feel like as 
as bodybuilders need to need to 

1295
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,200
be doing more as well. 
Like, you know, like I know it 

1296
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,800
probably gets boring. 
I hashtag natural bodybuilding 

1297
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,720
all my posts and like I'm 
constantly talking about like 

1298
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:20,680
saying I'm natural bodybuilding 
and stuff. 

1299
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,479
But but I feel like we should 
all be doing that because 

1300
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:25,680
there's not enough information 
out there. 

1301
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,279
Like it's so easy for people to 
just kind of go down the 

1302
01:09:28,279 --> 01:09:31,560
assisted route and and look at 
Chris, like Chris Bumpstead and 

1303
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,240
all that huge guys. 
You know when when you're 

1304
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,399
missing like there's there's a 
safer route to this guy, it's 

1305
01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:40,680
like and A and a healthier 
route, you know, I feel like we 

1306
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:42,640
need to promote that like all of
us. 

1307
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,240
We all have a duty to do that, 
like. 

1308
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:48,000
I totally agree man. 
And I feel like there is, it's, 

1309
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:52,000
it's 100% find that what you're 
excited about is still very 

1310
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:53,680
closely linked to your passion 
and body. 

1311
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,080
But I'm the same way. 
Like everything that I'm working

1312
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,480
on in life is somehow or another
linked to all the things that 

1313
01:09:59,480 --> 01:10:01,760
I'm passionate about. 
And for me, you know, fitness 

1314
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,160
and bodybuilding, nutrition kind
of stems from all of that. 

1315
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,800
So I think having that symbiotic
relationship with everything 

1316
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,440
that you're doing is a positive 
as opposed to something that's 

1317
01:10:10,440 --> 01:10:13,520
totally counter to what you're 
passionate about. 

1318
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,960
So yeah, I think that is the 
right direction for sure. 

1319
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,560
And I think you're absolutely on
on point with wanting to promote

1320
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,520
the sport of natural 
bodybuilding more as well. 

1321
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:23,840
Like that's something that I'm 
passionate about. 

1322
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,800
I see so many people going the 
unhealthy routes, especially at 

1323
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,560
a young age, man. 
Like when you make those 

1324
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:33,360
decisions at such a young age, 
it really short circuit your 

1325
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:36,640
potential and what you're going 
to have to continue to stay on 

1326
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,480
gear wise, you know going 
forward and like health and 

1327
01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:44,680
longevity and overall Wellness 
is the the main goal and 

1328
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:47,840
bodybuilding can be a healthy 
vehicle to achieve that if you 

1329
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,480
do it the right way and I. 
Think they? 

1330
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,840
They don't. 
They don't See the option of the

1331
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:53,520
day. 
We need to. 

1332
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:55,200
We need to. 
We need to show them that that 

1333
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,880
there is an option for. 
That yeah, so more. 

1334
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,600
More eyes being on the sport of 
natural bodybuilding. 

1335
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,000
More attention being brought to 
it, More, more education. 

1336
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,120
So yeah, I'm 100% on the same 
page you made. 

1337
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:10,080
If there's anything that we can 
do collectively to promote this,

1338
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,760
you know, far and wide, sign me 
up, brother. 

1339
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,280
I mean, yeah, I mean like what 
you're doing is great with the 

1340
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:18,880
with the podcast. 
I know you get a lot of guys on 

1341
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,640
the podcast and there's a lot of
other guys in the natural space 

1342
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,480
that also have a podcast and and
they're talking about it and 

1343
01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:29,320
stuff and and and it is good 
like because when you think 

1344
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:31,960
about it like you know you look 
at footballers and stuff like 

1345
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,000
like if you if you go and follow
any like professional 

1346
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,000
footballers like Cristiano 
Ronaldo, like all the top level 

1347
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:40,680
footballers. 
Like if you look at the 

1348
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:44,240
Instagram, it's like they're 
constantly like posting just 

1349
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,640
photos of like them, them 
playing football, photos of 

1350
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,280
their, their club, you know, 
photos. 

1351
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,080
Like they're constantly 
promoting it. 

1352
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,120
Just like we need to promote. 
Like we need to constantly be 

1353
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:56,280
talking about natural body. 
We need to constantly be like 

1354
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:59,720
promoting natural bodybuilding. 
Like like I like what the guys 

1355
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:01,560
in that news daily are doing as 
well. 

1356
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:03,920
Like you know, they're they're 
doing a lot of things for the, 

1357
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,640
for the, for the sport. 
And like, yeah, it's just it's 

1358
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,560
just good to see and guys like 
yourself with the podcast and 

1359
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,520
it's good to see people growing 
it and we just need to continue 

1360
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:16,000
to grow it like even more. 
I feel like it's like when I 

1361
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,800
think a natural bodybuilding, I 
feel like like it's so small, 

1362
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:21,760
right? 
It's there's hardly any eyes on 

1363
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,480
it, right, as a sport. 
But it has so much potential 

1364
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:29,720
like so much potential that is 
like untapped because like when 

1365
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,760
you actually speak to these 
young kids and say like do you 

1366
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:37,720
know there's like drug tested 
natural federations like and do 

1367
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:39,800
you know, like this guy here is 
natural? 

1368
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,200
Like this guy trained for 10 
years and built this physique. 

1369
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,160
He's natural like would you love
to look like that And then and 

1370
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:50,080
then we go, yeah, but they they 
think maybe non actually non 

1371
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,400
steroids or something. 
You know it's like if if we just

1372
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:57,000
get the eyes on the sport first 
the attention and just can we 

1373
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,520
all just try our like do our bit
for the sport. 

1374
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,240
Like who knows where it's going 
to, where it's going to go and 

1375
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,480
we're just ultimately we're 
going to save lives right. 

1376
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:08,200
Like we are like literally go 
we're going to save lives in 

1377
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,400
that process. 
So anyone that is promoting this

1378
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:14,800
sport like like you said sign me
up I'm I'm ready to kind of 

1379
01:13:15,480 --> 01:13:17,200
that's why when you when you 
said about jumping on the 

1380
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:20,120
podcast I was like yeah it's 
definitely mate like let's let's

1381
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,040
do it. 
You know well you it's only 

1382
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:23,800
going to going to be a positive 
thing. 

1383
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:25,120
Yeah. 
Well, you've got an open 

1384
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,440
invitation anytime, anytime you 
want to come on, talk about 

1385
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:29,280
natural bodybuilding, talk about
what you're doing. 

1386
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:32,040
I mean, you've got an open 
invite because our goals are 

1387
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:33,680
very much so aligned in that 
regard. 

1388
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,200
No, I appreciate that mate and 
thanks a lot for. 

1389
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:41,000
But having me on and having this
chat today, it's been, it's been

1390
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,600
really good. 
Then hopefully any listeners out

1391
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,800
there that yeah that that took 
something from what we've said 

1392
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,200
and they can they can kind of 
learn from our mistakes when it 

1393
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:51,920
comes to the dieting phase and 
stuff. 

1394
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,480
And yeah don't don't make the 
mistakes that we made and 

1395
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:59,960
potentially they they're going 
to progress quicker at a faster 

1396
01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:02,320
pace you know. 
And a healthier pace, for sure. 

1397
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:04,200
And a healthier pace? 
Yeah, well. 

1398
01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:06,560
Where do people go to find out 
more about you and dive into 

1399
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,160
your world, ma'am? 
So yeah, you can check me out on

1400
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:14,800
Instagram Summers .93 and I've 
also got a coach in Instagram 

1401
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,920
Summer Fit Direct where I post 
all like my client based stuff 

1402
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:19,800
and I'm I'm also on YouTube as 
well. 

1403
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:24,000
My name's Lewis Summerson. 
But yeah I don't post too much 

1404
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:25,200
on the I need to. 
I need to. 

1405
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,880
I'm being slacking. 
I need to get better at that 

1406
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:29,800
consistency. 
I'm talking about pro natural 

1407
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,200
bodybuilding. 
I'm not. 

1408
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:33,320
I'm not. 
I'm not doing my bit to be 

1409
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,400
honest mate. 
I need, I need my game as well 

1410
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,160
like I do. 
I do few blogs for the prep 

1411
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:41,160
phases and like film the show 
day videos and stuff if you have

1412
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,200
a look on my on my YouTube 
channel. 

1413
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,920
But yeah, again I need I need to
progress that more and it's also

1414
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:48,480
going to help grow our 
businesses right. 

1415
01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:51,920
So it's it's it's just all all 
all positive things. 

1416
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:53,520
We'll keep fighting the good 
fight, man. 

1417
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,400
Keep putting up the content. 
Keep living the healthy 

1418
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:57,880
lifestyle. 
Keep changing lives and just 

1419
01:14:57,880 --> 01:14:58,720
keep doing what you're doing, 
man. 

1420
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,360
I'm I'm very grateful that you 
on that 5050 Rd. 

1421
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,720
Between doing Worlds or not. 
And you decided to do it because

1422
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:06,480
you and I meant as a result of 
that. 

1423
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:08,960
So I was honored to step on 
stage with you, man. 

1424
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:13,400
I'm excited to see what the 
future holds for you. 100% mate 

1425
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:16,600
and for yourself like hope. 
Hopefully we can definitely 

1426
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,800
cross paths again and hopefully 
share the stage again at some 

1427
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:21,280
point. 
Then I'll definitely be 

1428
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:23,760
following along your journey as 
well. 

1429
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:27,000
And who knows, one day I might 
turn keto, so I I might come to 

1430
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:28,960
you for some diet advice for 
that. 

1431
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,600
Hey man, I'm happy to help 
answer any keto questions you 

1432
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,720
ever have and I'm looking 
forward to sharing the stage 

1433
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:35,160
with you again. 
Hopefully you and I both be a 

1434
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,640
few pounds heavier next time we 
both step on stage. 

1435
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:40,640
That's, that's the plan, mate. 
Let's let's hope and pray. 

1436
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:42,640
Sounds good, bro. 
Take care, Louis, man. 

1437
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:44,320
Yeah. 
Cheers, Rob. 

1438
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:45,120
Nice to mate. 
Bye. 

1439
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:45,400
Bye. 
Yeah.