Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Robert Sykes keto Savage.com.
And today, I've got Seth Barner on the line set is a current
client of mine and we dive deep into the world of Eating
Disorders, disordered eating food, addiction, other
addictions, all that, that entails.
And it's interesting because if y'all follow along with my
story, any length, you know that I've definitely battled with
disordered eating at some points in my past he is currently going
through disordered eating and we just dive into What's going on
from a psychological standpoint, from a physiological standpoint,
how this is impacting our day-to-day life, but
relationships how to overcome it, how to beat it, how to learn
from it, how to make it sustainable, how to make life
better, and just get through it. And I really, really enjoyed
this conversation. We Dove deep into the mindset of
why we do what we do and I feel like this is going to be a very
informative episode for y'all. Whether you're struggling with
eating disorders, are not Because everybody's got things
in their life that they struggle with and we talked about many
things that transcend just disordered eating as a
standalone. So without further Ado, sit back
relax. Enjoy the conversation with Seth
We are live. Seth, how are you brother?
I'm doing great Robert. How's your morning?
Pretty good, man. I cannot complain.
I'm happy to have you on. We just to give people some
context you or a client of mine and we've we've dug deep into
lots of different things. So I don't want introduce you
the I want you to know yourself kind of give give the listeners
a little background as to who you are and then I guess we can
kind of set the stage as to, we're going to be diving into
here. Sir.
Yeah, so I know we've worked together for a little bit now
and I apologize if there's background noise.
So I'd say, I guess it's been, I don't know, three or four months
of it working together, but prior to that, I had been
through, I don't know, five or six different coaches.
So basically I've dealt with binge eating off and on for
product the past 12 years 32 now.
And I don't like to classify My Life by binge eating, but that's
the context of our Listen, chip. That's I know what me to work
with you originally. So I would say, I Fitness has
always been something that I valued, highly and health and
nutrition ever since college. And while that was at one point,
a I guess extreme passion of mine.
It it became on the on the opposite end of the spectrum and
extreme struggle through binge eating.
And I feel like I've been through every possible coach
every possible technique every possible.
I don't know, every possible program out there regarding this
and through it. I've been able to learn a lot.
I've been able to help some other people with it and it's
still something that I would never say I'm perfectly on the
other side of But just in since you and I have started working
together. I've learned a lot about myself
especially in how keto has been extremely helpful for me
personally, but just a lot around the mindset behind binge
eating as well as just really how that affects every area of
my life. That's a little bit of a
scrambled summary, but yes, no we are now I think I think like
I was really motivated to get you on the podcast because Cuz
when I first started putting out, it's actually it wasn't
when I first start putting out content but when I had been
putting that content for quite some time, I made this like my
story part 1 and part 2 video series that gained a lot of
momentum. And people really appreciated
just the brutal honesty as you are because I talked about the
eating disorders that I didn't struggle within that.
And I feel like once I became open about that, that was one of
the best things that kind of helped me gain some momentum and
break free of my disordered eating and Like you, I mean, you
kind of are still in this ever ever changing process of
figuring out what's gonna be the best thing for you.
So I kind of wanted to give you this opportunity to just get
your story out there because I feel like having for whatever
reason, just simply talking about it, and knowing that other
people know, even if they never interact with, you just simply
knowing that other people know seems to have this weird, you
know, pulse on on just fixing it.
And that's, I mean, whether it fixes it or not, I wanted it to
give it a rackleff like you can offer a ton of value because so
many people are going through what you have gone through and
are currently going through. And I feel like you have a great
story and a great great feel for how it's impacted your life that
a lot of people can relate to. So I just kind of wanted to give
you that opportunity to share that story.
Yeah, absolutely. I first of all, I really
appreciate this opportunity to do this because I have found in
other areas that being able to verbalize something, especially
even in just our phone calls, being able to verbalize
something. Sometimes you find your own
answer through doing that. The answer that you thought you
didn't have, but you did you just couldn't get it out.
And I remember very specifically when I first, I remember exactly
where I was when I first started listening to your podcast and I
was like, I need to hear this guy's story because I've heard,
I heard you reference it in your podcast.
That was the first thing I did is like diving to YouTube and
find that my story part 1 and 2. And so I remember listening to
that and at that moment thinking I at some point would like to do
something like That and I think that this is great because it
allows me to share that and not procrastinate and doing it.
So I guess so as far as the binge eating is concerned.
So I guess that started about Yeah, quite a while ago, when I
was in my senior year of college I was really into running as
training for marathons running, was my life.
It was my identity and I got injured in a marathon and was
unable to son able to run or bike for six months.
And so, I went from having all those endorphins everyday from
Those runs that Runners tie as they call it, to not being able
to do anything. And it started with just, I
remember one night, just going downstairs.
And I lived in a house with like four other guys went downstairs
and in the middle of night started eating some peanut
butter out of the jar and just did not stop.
I just kept going and woke up the next day felt awful had no
idea why I did that and then proceeded to do it the next
night and the next night and the next night and Adventure.
It eventually got to a point where I just it was so
contradictory to the person I was and it really tore me apart.
I had no idea why I was doing this and I remember got to the
point where even if I would not buy peanut butter for myself, I
would even I would even take my roommates peanut butters and
then replace it the next day and so it was like this, it
consumed, my life in ever since then.
So I ended up gaining think 60 pounds in about four months.
I stuck. I over about the next year.
I was able to lose most of that. Just through thing, I did like
P90x and just ran a lot. I once I was able to run again
but the binging never really went away a little bit.
It would go away and they would come back and go and come back,
it would always kind of resurfaced and so it calls me to
consistently lose. Like the same 10 to 15 pounds a
year after year. I would have belts.
Where I thought I had figured it out.
I thought I had found the solution and I would read all
kinds of books. And every, every personal
development book, I read. It was always filtered through
the lens of my eating disorder and it was always like, okay,
well, this is a great business principle but how but I'm only
thinking of it as how I can overcome this challenge.
Because it always seemed to be. It wasn't just the binging
itself. It was how much I thought about
food. It was a 24/7 thing.
It was Is it mentally draining even the days that I did not
binge eat it. Was it just, it took over every
thought I had, and it was always the, it was always kind of like
the wall that stood between myself and the goals that I was
actually passionate about. I've been passionate about
coaching others about building a business, about all kinds of
things about pushing myself, physically.
I don't don't really runny run anymore, but just enjoyed
lifting and things like that. But I think that I've woven into
so many books regarding binge eating.
I read a book called brain over binge that I guess is maybe like
45 years ago and thought it was really interesting and I
understood it conceptually. But every time I tried to
implement it, it seemed like there was a disconnect which
drove my confidence down even more because I think that is the
most frustrating. Of what I would now, label is
feeling addicted to food. Is that you, you know, so much
about nutrition. Like I could I've helped other
people. I have helped people lose plenty
of weight before coaching people for free and things like that
because I know what to do, but there's always that disconnect
of knowing and doing and that part of you that feels like it
just takes over in the moment, and I think that's the most
frustrating aspect of it and then to kind of fast forward.
Word to you. And I working together recently.
I think, what has transpired for me?
Most clearly is that I know what?
I know what works for me now, which is just abstinence from,
basically most processed foods. It was always sugar or like, you
know, ice cream cookies, pastries, those kinds of things.
So, when I'm absent from that, and I embrace that lifestyle, I
love how I feel. I have no issues.
But I think I have gotten in my head too much and I've
questioned myself and thought. Well maybe there's a better way
or maybe this person's. Right?
And so like you and I have talked about a lot.
There's this whole debate out there between moderation and
abstinence. And certain people think the
people that think they're addicted, aren't really addicted
and they're fooling themselves and that, you know, they just
need to learn how to moderate and then vice versa on the other
side. And so I think my desire not to
put myself in one Camp has led me to not take a stand for
myself, in any in any of those camps and always hopping between
them which just like any, you know, shiny object syndrome not
taking a stance has taken a stance and itself.
And so now I feel I'm at this point, we're living a mostly
ketogenic Lifestyle on Whole Foods is definitely the path.
I know that works for me. And so kind of planting my flag
with that, not out of arrogance, but out of just knowing that
this is what works best for me, and accepting that accepting
that different things, work for different people.
I'm feeling right now is the is the best path forward.
I love him and I feel like, you know, in working with you for
the past few months, you've I mean, you've honestly made me a
better Coach because it's brought back that perspective,
then I probably just bought Default lost touch with because
I mean, I struggle with eating disorders, Superbad, several
years ago, but then I've pretty much recovered from that's for
the most part. I haven't really had any real
apses, and after you go several years without really having that
that, you know, intimate connection with a happening on a
regular basis, you just lose, you forget about it, you forget
how much of an impact it has on your day-to-day life and then in
talking with you, like whenever you fall off or you do something
that you beat yourself up about, we jump on a call me sir.
Talking and you describe it? I'm immediately brought back to
what my day-to-day was like in like the World War 3.
That was constantly. Raging in my own head, with
regard to my battle with food and having that perspective,
regained and just in more clarity makes me understand the
importance of this with an even, you know greater degree of
accuracy and just importance and significance.
And I feel like something like people that have never Ever
dealt with an eating disorder. And there are many people out
there that never have. I feel like humans are subject
to some form of addiction and that form of addiction is vary
greatly between different humans.
But I feel like with regard to food addiction, if you never
experienced it, it's hard to relate to people that are going
through it, but it's a whole nother, kind of Beast because
you got to have food to live. You can't just abstain from
food, so you have to be Really specific on the types of food,
the timing of the food, the the environment in which you eat the
food. Like, there's so many factors at
play that you have to get figured out because you gotta
have it. And it's been interesting for
me. It's been very enlightening and
lightning to me to see you go through these different chapters
and figure out what your body and mind respond best to.
Yeah. Yeah.
I know I I totally agree with what you said about about kind
of once you're out of that mindset and your kind of past
it, you kind of forget what it's like.
And because I've been in that position myself and for one
reason or another I think my desire to coach other people
around this eventually. Kind of got me in my own head
about it and I thought well I need to be able to, I need to be
able to relate to all kinds of people.
So I know a ketogenic lifestyle works for me.
I know, cutting out processed foods and creating that clear.
Divide works for me, but maybe I need to get my head back in that
space of where I was at my worst so that I can relate and
remember how it actually felt which doesn't make any sense
saying it out loud. But in the moment, when you're
in your head about things and you start to question, I think
that is it feels like you're two different people and I think
that's the that's the kicker to it.
Is making it the gold to get back to where you're just of one
mind. And I found that for me that
it's very easy to draw that. I know people say that you you
have to eat food. And so, you know, food addiction
is tough, because of that, and I can understand that.
But I also feel that for me, if there's ever since I did, I did
like a 30-day reset years ago, where I cut out all processed
foods like grains and things like that.
And I remember the first time I did that, I was able to very
clearly see. There's such a difference in the
way, like real food hits your brain versus, you know, treats
or sweets, however, whatever you want to call it.
And so I think seeing that divide, made it very easy for me
to distinguish between those two things.
But again, it's just that getting back.
That place of kind of getting out of my own head and
committing to coming to action versus trying to commit to like
the perfect technique and like the perfect thought process.
I think there's a because there's a lot of approaches out
there that are very mind based and I understand it and they
maybe they work for some people like you said, there's different
people dealt with different levels of this, I think.
But I think for our someone like myself, who tends to very easily
over think things, Things. The less thinking that's
involved the better. Yeah, I think I think that is a
huge realization because well actually let's back up.
I want to just paint the pitch for people that may not be able
to relate as to what this even looks like because they may be
hearing this in like what the heck is a food addiction in the
first place? So what is in a disordered
eating? If they have never dealt with a
just don't comprehend, can't wrap their head around and they
I can't really expect them to with us.
You know, laying down a few sentences to describe it, but I
feel like, just for the for illustrative purposes alone,
like, what for you personally is gnawing in your mind when you're
going through. Like, when you're, when you wake
up in the middle of night and you're like in the in the
kitchen, you get the frigerator door, open the pantry door open,
you're looking at all the options, you got a jar of peanut
butter in your hand, like what are the thoughts going on in
your mind right now as to whether or not you should open
that up and dive in. Yeah, that's a that's a great.
Question. So for me, personally, the first
I would preface this by saying, that all of everything that I
would stay can be explained in a scientific explanation of what
parts of your brain are lit up and, you know, your Primal brain
versus your conscious brain and people can explain this very
well, but in the moment, even though, you know those things
there's such a, it feels like there's such a strong compulsion
to eat. And not just eat, but eat large,
quantities of, usually things that are high in sugar and fat.
So, like ice cream, it feels like an overwhelming urge to the
point, where, like your conscious rational thoughts are
kind of turned down like you, you know, that what you're doing
is not something that you want to do, but at the same time, you
you feel like you need to do it. And you can't.
And that moment. See, a reason not to continue to
like, you know, you're going to feel awful after, you know, that
you'd be so much happier if you just didn't follow through, but
it's such a rushed and like, I don't like to use the word
numbing, but it's very overtaking, very consuming that
it feels like it's a need in that moment to the point where
Even though there's a part of you that feels like this is
ruining your entire life, it ruining your focus and, you
know, that if you were to stop giving into these urges that
you're having that they eventually would go away and,
you know, all these things. But in that moment, it feels so
over consuming and that the supernormal pleasure of that
food. It Trump's any reasoning that
you're that you have in your mind because you're just not
able to think clearly. And I think the other side of
that is that There's a difference between eating, you
know, three or four pints of ice cream and eating two, scoops of
ice cream and the way that hits your brain and I think that
that's where a lot of people. I think maybe don't realize that
when you're using food as a drug like that you're using it in
much larger quantities. Just like, you know, a glass of
wine is not going to hit your brain.
The same as five or six glasses of wine, you know, that are
consumed within 30 minutes. And so I think once somebody Is
at a point where they've used food as a drug to try to have it
in moderation, it's almost just like a tease for what you really
want, which is to what I've heard.
Someone say, I feel it's pretty accurate as to quote unquote,
get high on food, and so in the moment, that's what it feels
like. It feels like it's just an
overwhelming all-consuming desire, that goes against
everything, pretty much every value that you stand for as a
person. But yet at the same time,
there's a part of you that enjoys it to a point where it,
it Supersedes any other rational desire.
I'm trying to like think of a good analogy as weird as we're
talking here in. The only thing that comes to
mind is, you know, similar to how we need food.
We are biologically, you know, evolved to, to want to procreate
have sex and procreate. And I feel like this is similar
to, you know, having like an affair.
Because, you know, every reasonable part of your brain is
telling you that this is not a wise move.
This affair is not a good thing. I should be faithful, but in the
moment like if both members are around, it's going to be very
hard. Like that's like a kin to you
being right there in the refrigerator door with his food
in your hand. Like what are you gonna do?
Like, it's very hard to say. No at that point.
So like you need to create these boundaries long before you ever
even get to that point. Absolutely.
Yep. That's that's 100%.
It's it feels like you're feels like you're having an affair
with the with the real version of yourself and it's like You
your you are of two minds and these two minds compete for your
interests. I heard, I know we talked about
Jordan Pederson a little bit lately.
I know he's described addiction as as an entire personality
because that's, that's really what it is.
It's not in some ways, it's an extremely bad habit, but the
actual the actual consumption of the food is the strongest part
of the habit. But then every hour leading up
to that consumption from Second, I wake up in the morning and
just the small idea in my head of well, maybe this evening,
we'll drive to the store and have something but then there's
the counter. Thought of no, I don't want to
do that. Even those thoughts, even that
debate in your brain becomes ingrained as part of the whole
addiction, whereas like you become addicted to the thoughts
that lead to the consumption. Even if that thought is, I'm not
going to have this today. Eventually that thought of I'm
not going to do this today, becomes Paired with doing it
because you've broken it so many times and it eventually, it just
takes over your entire life. Whereas everything you're doing,
just like I've heard, it described in alcohol addiction
as well. Everything you're doing is
centered around, getting that food at some point.
If you're with other people, you're thinking about, what how
am I going to Get whatever substance, it is, whatever food
it is. After I leave this group of
people, or after I get off work, or after I do this, everything
is. It's like, your aim is getting
that substance. Yeah, that's a really good point
because I don't feel. I feel like people that have no
perception of this, don't recognize the the length and the
amount of time spent fixating on the food or whatever the
addiction, maybe. Because like when I rewind back
to when I was struggling with it, I mean, I would spend
literally all day thinking about a specific meal that I was going
to have at some point far into the future.
And when you're, when you're in that state, you it's impossible.
I mean, by definition, you are not being present and because of
that, your quality of life in the moment is diminished your
relationships suffer. You just have like this, waxy,
glossed over look and nothing is as pure and pristine as it
should be because you are living for.
A moment in the future that you inherently know, is not going to
be fulfilling in any true sense of the word, it's going to be a
high but not a like a true legitimate fulfilled high and
you know that you're going to beat yourself up for it
afterwards yet you do it. Anyways and that is this really
strange negative feedback loop that drives.
So much of our Behavior but is so hard to fix and correct
course on 100%. Yeah.
That fixation. And then the thing is, is that I
don't like to pretend that it's not in any way pleasurable
because it is pleasurable, but the it's because, you know,
these Foods, obviously, they're not things that are found in
nature and they're in concentrations that aren't found
in nature. So they stimulate our brain's
reward system at a very high level but it's it's the
consequences that are the problem and when you're in the
moment of thinking about the pleasure of that food, even if
you don't want to think about, About it when that thought,
enters your head. There's that dopamine Rush of
just the anticipation of getting that and that in itself is
almost at. It's just as strong as the
pleasure of actually eating the food itself into that dopamine
hits. As soon as you that thought even
enters your mind and that it feels like there's a point where
that side of you kind of takes over and you get so tired of
fighting it that you eventually, just let it win.
And so, I think that's where it gets.
It's tough to explain to somebody who has never
experienced it. I know people have there's
another side of it. Where people have, I know been
obsessed with eating extremely healthy foods and, you know,
they have foods that are good or bad.
And that's something that when somebody tells them, hey, like,
you're allowed to have Snickers bar, and it's not going to blow
your calories, maybe that person feels free because now they can
have those foods that they thought they couldn't have,
whereas someone who struggles with binge eating at least to
the degree that I have. That.
I know that, you know, I could fit into my macros so to speak,
but to do that would would be like kind of like taking the
tiger out of the cage so to speak.
Yeah, it's a Once you unleash the Cracking.
So to speak, you, you definitely like all holder.
But I mean, you lose complete and utter control.
Like everything is just floodgates are open.
I mean, they're, it's weird because the and a lot of people
are like, you know what, you get your ketones dialed in.
You get your hormones regulated with the properly, and I'm going
to implement a ketogenic diet and then your hunger hormones.
Tell you when to stop eating and that just oftentimes, is not the
case if you have disordered eating because there's like a
whole nother You know, shift that occurs psychologically and
they're literally is seemingly no release of that.
You know, leptin, ghrelin, everything's just out of whack
and you can eat at nauseam. I mean, just Mainline foods that
seems just in human to be able to consume amounts in, but
you're able to do it. And it's it's weird because then
you start to almost crave that feeling of just over consumption
and fullness. And that's obviously not a, you
know, performance and I mean that That inhibits performance
quite profoundly. So you don't really want that
from optimization standpoint but for whatever reason you start to
Crave that just feeling of just over over consumption which is a
weird sensation in itself and then the moment you you know
that you're teetering on the edge and then you give in and
you over consume, it takes a massive hit on your self
confidence because then you feel like you're too weak like how we
can my I can't even control the food that I My own mouth.
Like I start having these conversations with myself and
then when you have that lack of confidence in who you are, it
becomes exponentially easier to fail and falter a second, third,
fourth time. And then it just becomes this
continuously compounding negative feedback loop.
Absolutely. Yeah.
I think that's spot-on because you know, there's definitely
been times where I know I'll say this.
I know for a lot of people that Get into binge, eating it stems
from maybe there had really restrictive diet at some point,
and they weren't eating enough calories, and so, if you're not
eating enough calories, it's going to be way easier to binge.
And then a lot of those people they find they start eating
foods. That actually fill them up, you
know, like steak and things like that.
And that desire to bend it kind of goes away because they're
actually getting enough nutrients.
Whereas, for me, I could eat, you know, I could eat a 16 ounce
Ribeye and still have that desire.
You, it's not always the desire to binge, but just the desire to
eat some hyper palatable food, like some ice cream or you know,
something high in sugar, fat and salt after that.
Even if it's key to ice cream, you know, it still hits my brain
the same way. So I could still have that same
desire regardless of how much I've eaten because it's, it's
not about Hunger, it's about that reward in that that
overwhelming, pleasure, that that high of the food that I'm
kind of seeking out. Out.
Yeah it's interesting man. I feel like you know if somebody
is is chronically under eating and they're struggling with
disordered eating, I feel like you know first and foremost they
got a intake enough calories so that they can at least meet
their you know mineral and nutrient needs.
That's going to help immensely. You know that.
That's step one for you by this disorder having disordered
eating as a result of chronically under eating.
So they got to get that in check first if they're eating adequate
amount of food and nutrients and Still having the disordered
eating, then it becomes much more of a you're able to kind of
like know that it's not a physiological issues so much.
It is a psychological issue and then we can kind of address it
in a much different manner. Yep. 1000% the I think the
difference that I've found is that a lot of people talk about
restriction with all you need to allow these Foods.
That's why you're binging on them because you're restricting
them from yourself. But I think that for me, when
when you tell somebody who feels truly addicted to food and by
the way, I don't whatever labels people want to use is fine, but
I just, I think the subjective experience is what's most
important. Like you can Me what you want to
call it? Whether you think food addiction
is real thing or not? And whether someone says it, but
I know what I've experienced and I know what other people have
experienced as well. And I know even known as much as
I do just to still have that subjective experience.
Ultimately is what I think is most important, but if someone
the idea for me of never having those hyper palatable Foods
again, is extremely freeing on one hand.
Like there's a part of me that there's a part of me that does
you know kind of feel. Like I'm going to be can have
some cravings for a little while, but the idea of never
having to even think about them again that feels so freeing
whereas for someone who maybe just I think is dealing with
overeating or maybe you know eating too strict maybe like
super low fat and I don't know just promoting salads every meal
or something like that maybe that feels restricting to them
but I think one person's restriction is another person's
Freedom. Yeah I think perception.
I mean your perception Your reality.
So I mean, a lot of these what works really well, for one may
not be nearly as applicable to another, so having the
self-awareness really comes into play here because you have to
know who you are, what you stand for in the fact that I mean for
you personally the fact you're also wanting to identify as
someone who is a you know, expert in Nutrition.
A coach, a trainer that adds a whole nother dimension of
complexity to it because not only do you address things and
through the Lens of what do I need to do?
What's best for me but you're also having the weights of how
do I need to, you know, illustrate myself in a way
that's going to be best for others?
And that's that just adds a whole nother dimension of like
said complexity to the equation here.
Yeah, it high. I know we talked about this but
it's definitely definitely gets me in my own head about things
and I you know, I one day I'm hearing somebody talking about
food addiction and you know, following a Whole Foods based
lifestyle and just completely abstaining from those.
Foods and, you know, feeling great doing that.
And then the next day, I hear somebody else talking about
well, food addiction is not a real thing and people think
they're just addicted but they really just have to do this.
You just have to, you know, not listen to their urges and or do
this for that and use this mental technique and and then I
think, well maybe I'm not doing the right thing.
So maybe I need to try this and maybe this is the real way and
this work for this person. So you know, if I have a future
client or something that doesn't resonate with the abstinence,
Idea, well, maybe they need to, to do this.
But I found that if you know these for me, I think it's just
what's most important is to find is the process of finding what
does work for you. You know, I'm not saying by any
means, what works for me is going to work for everybody, but
I do think that I think it's worth it least.
I think there's a good foundation to be had of trying
to go for a period without those Foods just too. the just to kind
of know that you don't need them and I think that's really kind
of the one of the biggest light bulb moments I've had since
we've been working together is just the idea of the opposite of
an addiction is not too, is not even not giving into that
addiction. But I think it's being apathetic
about it to the point where you don't you no longer care about
those Foods as much so you're not placing such a high emphasis
on them because I think to someone I read this in a in a
book while back and they said to some to an addicted mine.
Like the Holy Grail is moderation because you think
well I just To be able to eat these foods.
But not have the consequences of them, but at the same time if
you're self-aware enough to realize that that's the fact
that moderation is such a high priority for you is that that's
very different from someone who is moderating like you know,
someone who's moderating, they're not thinking about, oh
I'm trying to moderate it's just they could take it or leave it.
If you told someone that, you know, has no issues with eating,
you know, ice cream or cake, or cookies that They can never have
it again. They probably be kind of down
about it, but they, I don't think they would.
I don't know. It probably wouldn't affect them
as much as somebody who has an addiction to those things and
feels like, you know, that's there in one sense that that's
everything that they're striving for.
It's kind of like just it's aiming at a very superficial
Target that really shouldn't be given that much attention 100%
man. I feel like, I feel like there's
a lot of different ways we could take this but I feel like
They're the human mind is not respond.
Well in the context of feeling deprived or of sacrificing
something like we don't like to give things up.
We like to have our cake and eat it too so to speak and when we
realized that if we try to overcome an addiction by simply
removing it and not replacing it, then we're going to
constantly feel like we're sacrificing and that we're
deprived and that Instant nagging feeling is going to have
us Fester on the thoughts, that thing that we feel deprived of.
And that just going to result in US binging on whatever that
thing is and I'm proud of change.
I mean, I don't pretend to be an expert in this by any means.
But this is what I've noticed through my own personal Journey.
But I feel like for me, what's been incredibly impactful is
recognizing that by removing the IE, you know, carbs heavily
processed foods, I'm not really sacrificing anything of value
because the importance and significance of those isn't
really even that great. I mean, if I was to think as a
performance athlete, for instance, that my performance
which is the, you know, highest goal is going to be hindered by
not having carbohydrates yet. I'm struggling with this
addiction to carbohydrates. That would be a very, you know,
depressing thought that would be a very Be discouraging
realization. But once I came to the
conclusion that hey, look, I cannot have carbohydrates
processed foods and that's not going to result in a net
negative to my performance. That was very liberating because
then I was able to double down on the things that I felt
confident with improve my overall performance.
And because I was able to double that on those, I no longer felt
like I was sacrificing or being deprived.
I appreciated the confidence gained in knowing that I was
only going to get Closer to my performance goals by removing
that addiction, that outweighed, the temporary thought of feeling
like I was sacrificing something, does that make sense?
That makes total sense and that is spot on this.
I think it's the best way to say it is that you know, you're
you're replacing it with something else because it's keep
referencing Jordan Pederson, of course.
But you know he talks about aiming up and when you're
addicted, your your aim is. Your aim is at not doing
something, your aim is at and I feel like when anytime you aim
at not doing something, you just focus on doing that thing more,
which drives you deeper into it and you don't know why you keep
going into it. When the only thing you're
trying to do is not do it, but when you completely change a
lifestyle, it's like putting on an entirely new lens.
It's almost like I remember hearing a podcast about A
veteran Who Lost His sight set on I-80 and, you know, had to
have surgery and almost lost his life and he no longer could see
after that, you know. I don't think I'm sure I can't
even imagine how difficult that is.
But at the same time, I remember thinking that, you know, his
whole perspective was not thinking about what he couldn't
see. Now, his whole perspective was
building a new life with what with his new state.
And make an impact in that way. And I think that focusing on the
impact that you can make the genuine, the meaningful things
in, even one of those genuine meaningful things being eating
food. That satisfies you can actually,
makes you feel good. You know, breaking bread with
friends, the things that you look back on.
And you remember that, you're glad that you did just putting
more of a focus on those things and thinking about how Eating in
that way is going to support you even, you know, putting on
muscle in the gym or the things that like I actually care about
the things that I truly am passionate about switching that
focus is just, it's so much easier and it's so much more
enjoyable to embrace something new than to try to constantly
push away something that you hate. 100% completely agree.
And it's funny because there is again, there's a lot of
different, a lot of different directions.
We could take it, but I feel like on that.
Last point you made the like, for me, personally, there's one
instance, way back when I was really deep into struggling,
with these eating disorders. And I think I may have talked
about this on the podcast prior, but I was I was going through
this time, I was just fixating on food and I got news that My
one of my family members was in the hospital and I thought about
that for a moment, but then my thoughts immediately went back
to thinking about the next meal and that was like, such an aha
moment for me because I realized that the true quality of my life
in our relationships is being hindered in a very negative way
because of something that is so incredibly unimportant in the
grand scheme of things and that having the negative
psychological effect did. Coupled with the fact that it
was having physical, you know, detriment from a physical
standpoint, it made it that much easier to get excited about the
benefit gained. And basically what I was
replacing that with on a positive end of the spectrum
with regard to eating the whole quality foods that I knew were
adding value, like people that don't have these addictions,
they don't have to worry about moderation.
They're able to moderate and not be an issue.
They may be eating some you know, birthday cake.
I'm sure in the, in the depths of their soul, they don't
honestly think that that birthday cake is healthy and
adding any inherent benefit to their overall health and
well-being. Whereas with me, it's like now
that I'm not even having that as an option. 99% of the things
that I'm actually consuming are actually improving my health and
performance and well-being. And that is an exciting
realization. And I know that my quality of
relationships has improved because I don't have to think
about the superficial stuff that doesn't matter.
And when you have that, Light bulb, click.
It's like how it's hard to rewind and go back to what you
used to thing, because the overwhelming power of how you
think. Now, just is so much more
sustainable and you feel right about like you don't ever have
to have that. That lack of self-confidence
because you deep down in your soul, know that what you're
doing is better for not only yourself physically and mentally
but also for the relationships in your life in the people that
matter. Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think it's it's just
like you said, it's, it's kind of its kind of creating a new
normal for yourself. It's like your What was once
your ceiling becomes your new floor and you you're able to
actually be yourself and kind of completely cut out that side of
you that you that really is just so superficially focused and I
think once that side is out you you're able to just you're able
to be present more. You're able to like you said,
even if you're out of place or some kind of event where there's
cake or something and you know rather than fixating.
No, no, I can't. That cake this the whole time
you know, you're you're just focused on how much more present
you can be. And you know, when I think back
there's never been a point in my life where I've thought, man,
that, that would have been so much more enjoyable.
If I, you know, I'd had, you know, a few more slices of cake,
or like I just eat more, you know, like it would have been.
That's, that's, that's never happened.
It's usually like, man, I feel awful this morning.
I wish I had knows. You know, eat And all that stuff
last night. And you know now my next day is
affected because of how I ate yesterday.
And, you know, it's like the the quote I say, it's like you you
hunger for what you feed on and it's like if you are constantly
feeding on those things, and that's exactly what it is.
It's like if I don't feel them at all, I don't want them
anymore and I'm able to replace them so much easier.
More easily versus, you know, if I was to go to somewhere and
have a The cake. I'd be probably fine but I put
that. You know how that is Kate.
Put it down but then the next day those thoughts would be
coming back again. It would feel like that other
side of me was like that fuse was lit essentially and it would
only be a matter of time before there was like I don't know, I
wasn't paying attention or I know for me A lot of times where
I have binge eating or eating things just unconsciously, it's
always when I'm doing something else like ironically it's when
I'm listening to a podcast or something like that because it
becomes such an automatic response that the second you are
not paying 100% attention to it. You just start kind of going at
it and it's almost like you're checked out and almost as
automatic as brushing your teeth or something like that.
Hmm, definitely. And I Like, in order, I feel
like you need to have like everybody needs to have certain
non-negotiables in life. And what those non-negotiables
are is going to be very different depending on the
individual. And I mean to, for me, to
reference Jordan Pederson, I'll just go along with your Trend
here. He talks a lot about Order and
Chaos and how change happens on The Fringe and Humanity has
constantly trying to reach this equilibrium between Order and
Chaos. Chaos.
You know, for me the it's important to have these
non-negotiables within the context of what that Order and
Chaos presents itself as so like using this, this conversation is
as an example. You know, a non-negotiable for
me would be processed carbohydrates.
That I know are not adding any inherent benefit to my life or
the life of those around me. So I can, I can easily have
that. Is non-negotiable, I don't need
it. Now, does that mean that I need
to be? Super strict and Counting every
single macro all the time from good clean, quality whole
sources. No, and here's here's how you
here's how I can can justify and make that entire process more
sustainable. Because if it's if it's not
sustainable than its you're going to be much more app to go
off the rails and binge and Purge, and it just becomes a
negative feedback loop again. But if you make it sustainable,
then it then you're able to obviously sustain it and that
compounding effect of sustaining something positive Year after
year after year is where that's where, that's where the magic
quote unquote is made. And in this realm, you know,
order would be defined as tracking everything to the T and
having all your Macros dialed in knowing your calorie counts,
knowing the macro ratios etc. Etc, etc.
Chaos would be defined as not tracking it all going through
life, very willy-nilly with your food and just eating as however,
you see fit. And for me, it's like, well,
wait a minute here, if I really want to make this sustainable,
I've got to kind of find that good equilibrium point and go
through these various phases, depending on where my, where my
mind is that at the moment, what my goals are at the moment and
for me as a bodybuilder, even if I wasn't stepping on stage as a
bodybuilder, I think having a determined building and cutting
phase is key from a psychological standpoint because
it allows me to have this period of time where I can be
incredibly ordered and strict and really kind of operate on
The Fringe and optimizing an extreme level 4.
One thing but then it's it's juxtaposed against this chaos.
Not miss a chaos, but you get the concept in which I'm not
tracking nears diligently, I'm able to be more loose and more
relaxed still eating the good quality foods at all fall within
the Realms of what I consider, you know, okay, and not a
non-negotiable but having that that difference, that
equilibrium point that Yin and the Yang makes this entire
Journey, much more sustainable, much more enjoyable and it
allows me to go through life without feeling like I'm
sacrificing anything. That is beautifully.
Put, I love a lot of the ordering chaos analogy because I
think it's also kind of like that.
You know, I know you've talked about this before but the
discipline equals freedom and kind of thing where it's, you
know, you create you create rules in order to create more
freedom, you know. It's like there's a reason we
have laws is reason like we have you know, people protecting
those laws is so that we can feel a sense of safety and not
have to worry about certain things.
Evan, but if we didn't have those laws, we wouldn't have
that freedom. And so, I think what?
I one of the kind of the biggest epiphanies I've found for
myself. Is that for some people?
I there's a lot of push out there right now about like no
rules like, no food roles and you know, nothing is good or bad
and you know, maybe from a moral level, of course it's not you're
not a bad person for eating any certain food, but I think that
rules can be very freeing for certain people. well, and I
think rather than thinking that something is wrong with you for
creating these rules for yourself, if you feel free with
them and you know, maybe there is maybe there is some magical
technique where you wouldn't have to have those rules, but I
think the even the process of Face of fighting those battles
to try to find something. When you already know that
something would be very freeing for you.
It kind of just kind of saying that out loud.
It almost makes you think well, you know I don't I don't want to
fight a battle that I don't need to fight because there are
plenty of battles that are worth fighting that I could be putting
my attention to right now. If I was to just like you said,
put that one foot in order. And because that one footed is
an order of be able to Experience and face the chaos of
things that are worth dealing with at a much higher level or
said another way, like, you know, getting rid of the
experience to embrace the meaning of things, 100% man, in
very well, put I feel like the people that are advocating for
this total lack of rules with regard to nutrition.
But I mean, all everything that we've said in this podcast can
be an analogy for life. So I mean, we gotta take it with
what what? What?
But I feel like the people saying those things have come
from a place on the complete opposite, end of the spectrum
and the Pendulum is in the process of swinging to the other
end of the spectrum. And those are the types of
people that you see change course like in 180 degree of
shift on a pretty regularly occurring basis.
And in my opinion, I look at that and I'm not really
impressed by it, like the whole grass is greener.
On the other side, the shiny object syndrome like those are
people. I mean You look just the the
keto space alone, you see a lot of people totally changing their
tune on third on certain things that they've been, you know,
planting their flag in the ground on in the past and that's
not to say, you shouldn't experiment.
I'm very much so, you know, experiment try different things.
See what works for you. I'm all for it, but to see
people totally change their stance on, you know,
conflicting, moral viewpoints or whatever that maybe it's like, I
feel like that's more. So, Is the pendulum swing in the
opposite direction and they don't really have a grasp on
what is right for them yet and that's why I take a lot of pride
in the fact that you know, I've been following this exact
protocol now with changes, you know tweaks and manipulations
with what I'm trying to do. But like as an overarching
theme, I've been following the exact same protocol now for the
past five or six years and it's totally sustainable for me.
Again, this is all individualized, but the fact
that it's worked so well for me, leads me to believe Leave that.
It could very well likely work well for others.
And I'm just trying to spread that message and share with what
I've done. Because if anybody has gone
through the eating disorder that I've gone through and this is
works well for me, it stands to reason that it can very well
work well for them, and I feel like that's what my underlying
motivation is behind sharing this message, but whenever I'm
looking for anybody in life, you know, whenever I'm seeing
something that I want to achieve, you don't want to ask
people that aren't living what you're wanting to do, like you.
I wouldn't ask a bum on the side of the street, how to become a
multi-millionaire businessman. Like you probably wouldn't get
the best answers. You know, you want to get advice
and wisdom from people that are doing what you aspire to be
doing. Not people that have no context
or perception of what it is that you're wanting to do.
And, you know, that's going to be different for different
people depending on what their goals and desires life are.
But I'm proud to say that. I've I've seen so much success
doing this, the way I've done it and I'm proud and happy to
share. That message and I would just
encourage anybody listening to to do the same, whether it's my
protocol or anybody else's particle like figure out who's
doing something that you aspire to do and has successfully done
it for years on end only getting better with each year that
passes and take notes from them. And that is spot on it.
And that's one of the reasons that I reached out to you is it
wasn't because I thought you had you know the magic trick of
Eating Disorders but the way that you know I can just very
genuinely, tell that everything you say is extremely honest and
the things that you stand for the values that you have, the
goals that you've achieved and the things that you're working
towards like that, just that whole lifestyle.
There's something that I really resonated with.
It wasn't just one nutrition protocol.
Is it was the person that you are and that you the way that
you ate, you know, was a was a part of that life, but it
wasn't. It wasn't the whole thing and it
wasn't a trend. It wasn't a fad, it was
something that was authentically part of you as a person.
And that is what resonated and I think especially with guys
because I think a lot of guys don't talk about this very
openly, I think it's very Very female heavy industry as far as
eating disorders. Go.
And I don't think it's that guys, don't deal with it.
I just think maybe they don't use the same language and
speaking about it, but I know for me, it just you as a person
and just like you said, if you know, you want to listen to
somebody that actually has success in the areas that you're
after or because that speaks so much more than somebody who has
the head knowledge to tell you what to do.
You but isn't actually living it themselves hasn't actually been
through it themselves so I, yeah, I totally agree.
I think that's just, that's huge man.
Just like the setting. The example is, at least for me
resonates more than anything else.
Total agreement, I appreciate you noticing that in me.
I feel like, you know, being honest is so incredibly
important and we live in this weird time in which it's so easy
to be dishonest, it's so easy to put on On a mask and masquerade
around, is this person that you're not and it's compelling
to do. So, like if you get this high
like like you do with in a jar of peanut butter, you get this
High by showcasing yourself as someone that you are not.
But some of that, you know, the majority would aspire to be or
look up to especially in the fitness industry.
Like it's kind of disgusting and it's unfortunate So I've always
just fought like that like I feel like the whole fake it till
you make it phenomenon. Disgust me like I just I want to
be the best person I could be in the most transparent way
possible and I want to see success doing that because I
feel like you can definitely see success doing that and then the
success that you do see is a much more native organic true
success and you never have to wear a mask.
I mean, if to me a, a great horror in life, a great fear
would be To build up some degree of success under a lie and then
have to constantly nurture that lie, that would be just the
epitome of failure in my mind. No matter how much money is in
the bank account that to me would be failure.
So I want to be doing the exact opposite that in any degree of
success eyes. See whether that be from a
monetary standpoint, from a relationship standpoint from a
whatever standpoint. I want it to be made being 100%
completely authentic. Who I am as a person and know
that the people that I interact with know that about me with
absolute certainty. I love that.
It's it's kind of odd that I feel like, you know, I don't
think everybody's sad obviously but it's just I feel like we
live in a time right now where Being honest stands out so much.
And that's one of the things just your podcast and everything
you stand for. And the people that I listened
to or the people that are very honest about things and they
don't sugarcoat it good or bad. And I think that's that's just
as important whether it's like with an eating disorder or with
whatever experience it is, I think there's just there's
something there's when you hear truth you know it it's almost
like it's an intuitive thing and almost in the same way that I
would say that, at least for me when I have found, what does
work for me with with binge eating and eating disorders and
things like that? Is you almost intuitively Know
It with in the first five seconds of thinking about it.
Just like when you hear something that's truthful, you
know, it pretty quickly and it really it, resonates at a deeper
level hits. It's in a more genuine way.
Yeah, and I feel like there's a certain power that comes with,
you know. Acting that truth out into the
world because we live in a world in which everybody has so much
access to one another. So it's like it's like the the
need to connect with one another becomes, much more Amplified and
that that has resulted in both positives and negatives.
But I feel like it's no longer enough from a self development
standpoint. I'm sure there is some instances
where it has been enough, but I feel like on a whole it's no
longer sufficient to just be, you know, honest with yourself.
I feel like your ability to reach the other side and make
more progress. In life is Amplified.
If you're able to not only have that Honesty with yourself but
then to have that honesty and share it with others because
you're able to just expedite your own personal growth.
I mean, again going back to Jordan Peterson.
He was talking about, Carl Jung and how his belief in people
manifest themselves in the most positive way.
To society as a whole is to have complete Nutter self-awareness
and to know the darkness that you're capable of in order to
appreciate and understand and comprehend the positive in the
light that you're capable of until you know, and are familiar
with both ends of that Spectrum. You can't possibly be the best
person that you can be for yourself and for others, and I
feel like, if you have this darkness in you, but then you're
honest about it and not necessarily acting upon it.
But at least honest about it to the world like me. being open
about the fact that I struggle with eating disorders, or me
being open to the fact that anything that I struggle with in
life and and showcasing that to my audience, my followers, My
subscribers, whatever my listeners, my ability to impact
them in a positive manner, with light also becomes much more
Amplified I'm and yeah so so well put I think the yeah
there's I don't think you can truly have full self awareness
without other people being involved in its why.
Again like I love working together as just because it's
almost like I'm on the field and you're in the Press Box.
You know, you can see things that I can't and you have
experiences that and in this is part of what I need to.
Continually work to get better at is kind of knowing when to
stop the thoughts of my own head or when to just turn them off
and just trust the process and know that, you know, sometimes
it's easier to act yourself into thinking instead of trying to
think yourself into acting. And yeah, I'll just the human
connection aspect in any. Any aspect of my life has always
been. It's always been probably the
most valued thing I've had It is community and I think even like
this, these passed this past year where I haven't had as much
face-to-face, interaction with people, it's definitely
definitely noticed that difference.
And just when you don't have something at, you really realize
how much you need it and how much you appreciate it and
there's just something that even online you can't get the same as
that face-to-face connection where you can grow personally by
being around other people. People and help those people
grow by being around them, totally, man.
That's why I was so stoked to get you on the podcast.
Because even though it's just you and me talking here, we're
not really getting any feedback from anybody listening.
The fact that, you know, that what you've said is now in the
ears of so many people that for whatever reason can be very
liberating. And I feel like, you know,
having that sense of community as Amplified, knowing that the
thoughts that are going through your head, the struggles that
you're dealing with on a regular basis, other people that are
going through, it can relate with them, One.
But then also that people that are not in struggling with that
can kind of, you know, subconsciously hold you
accountable in your own mind simply because you know, that
other people know and even if they never reach out and talk to
you just simply knowing that other people have heard the
words that you said today think that could be very, very
empowering for you. And not you know going off
course in the future. Yeah, yeah, I think that
accountability is huge and I like to be open about these
things and not at all for, you know, trying to get any kind of
sympathy or anything like that. I think I think there's like,
you were to talk about the pendulum earlier.
I think there's that pendulum of swinging all the way to where
it's like, for people. Like to be vulnerable, just to
maybe Garner attention. And that is definitely not my
intent whatsoever, but it's just simply too.
You know hopefully resonate with other guys out there especially
that maybe have dealt with this and I never take a stance of
being powerless or of being the victim or anything like that.
I think we all have. We all have our own demons and
just like you were talking about.
We all have our own dark sides that we have to deal with and
but we do have the power to deal with them and to take that
responsibility and I think for me the act of taking
responsibility in that area and owning up to it is it's a and
for being able to take responsibility in any other
area, because I think the You take your, your greatest
struggle and making your greatest Victory.
I think that really shines a light on all the other areas
that maybe you didn't have confidence in before, and it
kind of helps bolster that confidence for those bigger
things, 100%, man, any less than that, you learn with any aspect
of your life, whether it's, you know, eating or training or
business, career relationships, they all, they all build the
whole and the whole being you as a person.
So, anything that you I'll go with her succeed in in this is
going to have a, you know, corresponding impact on every
other aspect of your life. So I'm excited to be working
with you, man. I'm excited.
I'm proud to be working with you.
I'm honored to have you on the podcast and have a friendship
with you, man, because you make me a better person.
And I'm I appreciate. I appreciate what you brought
into my life as well. I really appreciate it, Robert
and it's been, it's definitely an honor to be on this podcast
and it's an honor to work with you.
And like I said, there's there's something Beyond just a coaching
relationship that I just I have so much respect for you and the
things that you stand for and just hearing the way that you
talk to other people and the way that you impact other people.
I think I've heard it said that the impact you have on other
people is typically the way they talk about you when you're not
in the Room. And it's just, it's very cool to
hear the other things that people say about you, the way
that you've impacted them, you know, just that you're the same
person on camera, so to speak and off camera.
And so, and I can attest to that even through our current
relationship so far. So I really appreciate it.
I appreciate the example that you set for so many people.
Well, thanks a million man. That that definitely don't do
anything that I do to, you know, gain any notoriety by any means.
But it means the world to me to know that.
What? I'm spending my life doing, is
having a positive impact and just, to be able to have that
communication with you and others.
It makes me feel very, very fortunate, very blessed, and I'm
just very appreciative to, to you, for even want to jump on
the pond gas for anybody listening to the podcast right
now, for anybody. That's you know, tuned in any
point in their life, anybody that's about a break.
Anyway, that's than anything. I mean, just simply giving me
the time of day to listen to what I have to say.
That means more than than any monetary exchange by any stretch
of the imagination. So, You for jumping on the
podcast and thank you for everyone listening.
I appreciate you freaking, love you.
Where can people go to find out more about you, man?
I did not ask that. I'm so kind of an all the social
media platforms but my Instagram is Seth a Barner.
It's be ar and ER I didn't even get a chance to shout out to the
keto bricks because that's been a huge.
It's like a daily, it's my daily meal.
Neil the first meal of the day every day and I freaking love
those things. It's it's it fills a need that.
It just makes, I'm not make things a lot easier and I know
you didn't like, tell me to say anything about them, but it's
just as we worked for the coach relationship so much, I forget
to shout out to the even bigger. Bigger Enterprise you have going
on. So I appreciate that as well.
Yeah, I appreciate that. I have actually got it's funny.
You started off this whole discussion.
About, we're still recording, by the way, I've got about peanut
butter because I feel like, you know, if there's a gateway drug
to eating disorders, it's peanut butter.
I feel like everybody starts off a peanut, but I've got a horror
stories and just going through a whole tub of Jiffy, peanut
butter. And another, one of my clients
has struggled with eating disorders and she would just
down the nut Butters where there was peanut butter, the almond
butter whatever. But she's hurting the bricks and
for whatever reason that was able to scratch that craving for
the nut butter. But Not cause her to totally go
off course, and and eats the nut Butters, you know, in excess.
Yeah, that's, that's the crazy thing.
And I think that's what's so amazing to me about them is and
maybe it's just because of the high fats and how filling they
are, but I don't they don't trigger cravings for Me.
Maybe it's like the, the salt added to it to, I don't know.
But yeah, it's just it's very, very satisfying.
Whereas like, most processed foods are to do treats so to
speak there. There's like Zero nutrition in
them and so do you? There's no satiety Factor
whatsoever. So, yeah, I'm thankful.
I can eat the peanut butter brick.
Well, I've got a couple new flavors in the works.
I'm going to send you one, man. Gets get some, get some feedback
from you all about that, how about that?
Will say that one more time, what was the Instagram?
I want to make sure I get that right.
Yeah, it's Seth a Barner. There's no no dashes.
Anything like that. Perfect, perfect.
I'll certainly link it to that and I just want to finish this
off with one more. You know token of my
appreciation man I think for taking the time to jump on here
and I enjoy working with you if there's everything I do for you
man, just let me know. I really appreciate Robin.
My pleasure 1000%, take care, brother.
All right. Later.