Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes Keto savage.com.
Today I've got special guest doctor Alex Pasio topless and we
get aven to all things anti aging, age reversal, health
span, lifespan, all that good stuff, longevity to the Max.
So he is he he brought a whole bunch of interesting concepts to
the table here, how we can live our life currently.
What technologies are coming out to improve health span and
lifespan? What the timeline for these
things are looking like? Very, very, very interesting
conversation. We've kind of gone about our
lifestyle factors in slightly different ways from a
nutritional standpoint, but very interesting nonetheless.
I learned a ton. I've got no doubt that you will
take something from this step further.
Delay, sit back, relax. Enjoy the conversation with
Doctor Alex Pazzio Topolis. And we are live.
How you doing today, Sir? I'm doing great, thanks for
having me on the show. Hey, I'm glad to have you man.
So my audience is definitely interested in pursuing the
fountain of youth. I feel like nutrition, lifestyle
factors all come into play there, but you are leading the
tip of the spear, so to speak, when it comes to anti aging.
So I'd love to kind of learn more about what got you into
this space and what all you've learned in the process.
Sure, it's kind of a long road for me, you know, I didn't go
just standard route right to from undergrad to medical
school. So I had a career before as a
physician, I mean, as a as a builder and I get found my way
into the yoga scene, became yoga teacher, did a lot of Ashtanga
yoga and did some martial arts and Shaolin Kung Fu and found my
way back to school with neuroscience and biochemistry.
And I used to follow a guy doctor Michael Colgan, you know,
before I went to Med school and I used to read life extension
magazine a lot. And so that really got me
interested in that like, you know, you could live a
healthier, more optimized life and, you know, and that you
could live longer. And so he used to follow Doctor
Colgan for a while, even took his supplements.
And you know, the Colgan Institute still in existence,
they help like optimize athletes.
They still do a great job of that.
And then he was one of the contributors to the American
Academy of Anti Aging Medicine in the very early days.
Now it's a huge organization and they've, you know, thousands and
thousands of physicians have become functionally medicine
trained to do hormones and you know, lots of anti aging stuff
like that. So I went while I was a Med
student, I started the fellowship for anti aging
knowing that I couldn't graduate there until I was done with the
residency and all that. So I kind of already knew what I
wanted to do going into medicine.
And, you know, and I did that and then I did a fellowship for
stem cells and I did some for aesthetics and I did a lot of
training in peptides. And then what I've been doing
lately is I speak mostly on what's called medical
maintenance engineering. And what that is, is medicine
the way that medicine's practiced today.
And you know, it's starting to change a little bit, but
majority of it is you wait till there's a problem and then you
treat the problem. You don't really make the
problem go away. You treat it.
And if you look to the way engineers do things, they do it
a lot differently. Like when you get onto an
airplane, that airplane has to go through all of these checks
and balances, right? So like, they know like how long
those engines can run for before they need to be rebuilt.
They know what needs to be checked at what intervals,
right? And that let's have checklists
and they have all these checklists up in the tower.
The guys on the ground have to do all this kind of stuff.
So airplanes are really tightly controlled.
So even if you have an old aircraft, it still has to meet
the same criteria as a new one. And that way people don't die.
So you would think that like, OK, we have this great
maintenance engineering so that we know we have these
algorithms, we know what to check, we know when to check it.
You know, we know what parameters these things need to
be at so that they're at their optimal functioning capacity,
but it's not applied to humans. And you know, arguably the human
being is the most complex machine there is.
And so to not use maintenance engineering protocols and
algorithms with the most complex machine is silly.
And the other thing that is done, and NASA is really great
at this. Have you ever heard of like
single points of failure? So a single point of failure
will cause like a billion dollar project for NASA to be thrown
away, right? And so they're always saying,
OK, there's 200 and some single points of failure in this
project. And they list them all and
they're like, what can we do to to minimize those failures?
So those are the same things that happened to humans.
And the number one single point of failure for a human being is
a heart attack. And you know, we have more than
one heart attack per minute in the United States.
And that's ridiculous, especially because we have
testing now where, you know, it's a little bit pricey, it's
about 1700 bucks. But it's your life.
And you can be sent and you get this thing called the clearly
heart exam. And they will see whether or not
your heart has blockages in the coronary arteries and to what
extent. And not only what if, if they're
blocked, what kind of blockages? Like are they calcified?
Are they soft? Are they unstable?
And then if there is some blockage, and then they run
another report which is based on like 30-9 different parameters
of whether or not you have what's called ischemia.
And ischemia is whether or not the blood supply and oxygen is
actually getting to the organ of the heart at the microscopic
level. So all of this can be done.
And then the nice thing is if there's a problem there, well,
there's either, you know, heart surgery or stents or, or there's
medications, right? And with good medication care
and good supplement care and changing your diet, you can
actually reverse coronary artery disease.
Doctor Dean Ornish was the first to show that.
Put people on a plant based diet and you have them do some medic,
some meditation and some yoga and you measure how much
coronary blockage there is now and then a year later there's
less. So you know, we have all these
things that can do that. And just like with the heart, we
can do testing to see like if there's cancer that's early in
your body, you know, if there's, if dementia is going to be
creeping up on you, there's different markers to look for
plaques in the brain. It's just getting so well
advanced. We can even measure the quality
of your mitochondria. We can look at omic data to see
like really detailed inflammation in your body.
So it's a totally different level of care to do maintenance
engineering on a person. So I don't even really call it
anti aging because that's kind of old terms that were like 25
years ago. So what we found is that anti
aging was all about can we slow down aging?
And the answer is yes, but not that much.
The real thing is to reverse the process of aging and that's
what's coming in the future. There's some ways that we can do
it now with certain stem cells and peptides and things like
that. And there's certain medications
that can help get rid of like the cells that are synolytic
that cause you to age really fast.
But the real boost is coming in the near future, and that's
going to be like genetic changes.
You'll be able to get new genes inserted into you.
You'll be able to change the way that RNA functions in your
cells. So we want to be able to live a
little longer so we can live even longer.
So there's this thing called escape velocity that when we
reach it, you won't age anymore. But we're not there yet.
We can extend your lifespan a little bit, maybe 15% somewhere
around there, but we can really increase your health span.
The average person is like last 10 years of their life is not so
great. It's in a decrepit state and we
can probably compress that down to a year.
So following all these protocols and getting your checks and
balances done at the right time, getting your hormones balanced,
getting on the right supplements, the right
medications, you know, getting on a really good diet for
yourself, all these things and the right kind of exercise.
So, and then getting it tested so that you know, whether or not
it's working well for you or not, that buys you time.
And if you can buy yourself five years, in five years we're going
to have better stuff. And in five years after that,
we'll have better stuff than that.
Why do you think our society has placed like just this shift in
approaches such so that it's much more reactionary as opposed
to looking at the single point of failures, failures and kind
of addressing it from more of an engineering approach?
I don't really think it's like a conspiracy or anything like
that, I just think it's money. Yeah.
You know a. Lot more money in sick care than
health care. It's kind of what happens in
corporate, right? Like how are we going to make
money next quarter, right? And, you know, the insurance
companies and the pharmaceutical companies pretty much run
everything. So doctors have to.
And nothing against doctors, right?
Like the doctors are trying to get through a day and a doctor's
day is pretty rough. Like they're seeing way too many
patients because there's kind of a doctor shortage for how many
people there are. And so they're seeing too many
people and they're not having enough time to see them.
And then the insurance isn't going to pay for the things that
they really want to do, like this.
Clearly heart exam is not being paid for by insurance, but
they'll pay for tests that are more expensive, that give you
worse data. So there's just a lot of stuff
that just needs to be reworked and, you know, not conspiracy,
but like if the insurance company has to pay out a certain
amount of money over the whole year, they profit a percentage
of all that. So the more money that they have
to pay out, the more money they're making, right?
Because they just raise the premiums and stuff for that.
And then the doctors, they have to like code things properly so
they can get reimbursed. And if they want to sit down
with somebody like, you know, I really need to sit down with
this person for an hour, one, they don't have the time to do
it and then they won't get reimbursed.
And if they try to code for something and the insurance
company says that no, that's not cool and they get audited, they
can actually get fined. So, you know, most of the
physicians are kind of scared to, to, to be, you know, coding
things not normally, right? And sitting down for people more
or, or ordering things that they know probably won't be covered,
you know, or ordering too many lab tests And they'll say, why
did you order all this? What is your reasoning and like
it? It's ridiculous that the doctors
would have to justify themselves to an insurance company and not
to another like group of physicians.
What is going to be the turning point then?
If there's this, you know, incentive for from a financial
standpoint to kind of keep things going as they are, what
would be the the catalyst to get the ship to turn the other
direction? Well, I think 1 of it is just
that we have a lot more functionally medicine trained
doctors now. So the Institute for Functional
Medicine, we have the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine,
and there's a couple other spin off groups that are smaller.
And so more physicians are moving over to cash pay, getting
away from insurance and they're having more time to spend with
patients so that they can have time to talk about how are you
sleeping? What are your relationships
like? What kind of stress do you have?
What are you eating right? How are you moving?
Normally, a physician has no time to talk about any of that.
And the other thing is they didn't learn any of that in
medical school. They spent no time teaching us
any of that, right? And the curriculum in medical
school, you know, most likely was influenced by the
pharmaceuticals and the insurance companies, you know,
rather than real science. Because lifestyle Trump's
everything. You know, if you have a really
great lifestyle and you're not a stressed person, you're probably
not going to have many issues in your life.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I'm curious when it comes to
increasing lifespan and and health span, you know, always
kind of raises the question like if we were to in theory reach
this escape velocity and people aren't dying at the rate they
are now, but they're continuing to have babies at the rate they
are now. Like what happens on a
population basis? Like would we be able to sustain
that? And it's a pretty massive
question, but just curious of your thoughts.
No, it's a, it's a really great question and you know, people
get really worried about it. I can, I'll back it up with a
story in the past. So this is not a new question.
It's come up a bunch of times in history.
It came up in the UK. When the UK population hit a
million people, they all freaked out because the forests were all
cut down, the River Thames was totally polluted and they were
all complaining that there was too many people.
And it wasn't that there was too many people.
And so they didn't have the technology necessary to handle
that many people. Right now we have better energy
systems. We don't have to cut down trees,
right? We can take care of the water in
a much better way. And so the same thing goes to
larger populations. You just need better technology
to handle the population. The Earth can handle tons of
people. It's just how we do it.
Like where are we going to get the food from?
How are we going to deal with waste?
How are we going to create our power?
So if we move more to sustainable power systems like
nuclear, you know, you can make all the power you want if they
ever get, if they ever get the answer to fusion, then you have
all the energy you ever need and you have really no waste.
And even regular fission is so clean.
But because of the oil and gas companies, they made nuclear
look so dangerous, which is not it's sexually safer.
And so, you know, they kind of cornered that.
But all of that's going to turn around in the future and we'll
get much cleaner energy, much more energy, you know, with lab
grown meats. Now those are going to take off.
And I think in the future they're going to actually be
better than regular. And then you don't have to like
waste all this land and all this water and all these GMO crops to
feed these animals, right? We'll be, we're already better
at creating vegetables in an aquaponic and hydroponic
environment to increase their nutrition.
So I think that we'll be able to sustain tons and tons of people
and they won't be overcrowding. You know, though the housing
will be better, everything will be better.
The big issue is that we're actually going through a
population collapse and population collapse would be
terrible for the world. Most of the industrialized
countries don't have more than 2.1 children for each couple,
and it's way below that in many. And that population collapse is
really the real issue in the future.
Yeah, I've read about that. I've had a few people on the
podcast talking about the decline in population.
I think there's only two countries or something like that
right now with the populations actually growing.
Yeah. You know, it's, it's a it's a
real concern, right. And then, you know, we want to
make and then of the of the populations that are growing,
not those countries, but like the educated people are not
populating. It's mostly coming from the
uneducated. So that's an issue too, right,
Especially with the state of education in the country.
And hopefully, you know, some of these bureaucracies will get
fixed. When you have a collapse in
education and you don't educate the population, you have real
big problems. Every single superpowers run
into this. Keeping everyone educated is
what keeps the playing field level and keeps these major
casts from being formed. But we're headed towards like,
real poor and real rich. What do you think the like when
you when you look forward into the future?
Like at what? Any idea as to what time period
would be like this dramatic shift?
Is there going to be like a just a gradual shift overtime or is
there going to be like this cataclysmic event that just
forces change? And as far as medicine?
Yeah, medicine, population, you know, productivity, food,
education that we can, we can go all different kind of facets
with this. I don't know.
I mean, I think that in this century we are going to see
unbelievable change. I think AI is going to drive a
lot of it. But I also just think that we're
on the brink of changing so many different place, like the
scientific venues, right? So when it comes to genetic
engineering, we're, we're getting so much more information
and we're learning so much everyday.
There's a whole bunch of new genetic companies.
I started a company called the Institute for Medical
Maintenance Engineering. And I've got a bunch of really
rock star individuals on the Advisory Board.
Liz Parrish is one of them and she's really leading the charge
with her company called Bio Viva.
She's already injected herself with four different genes and
you know, she's lengthened her telomeres, she's increased her
muscle mass without working out. You know, I mean, like, it's
really amazing what this genetic therapy will be able to do.
And it's already available. It's just really expensive and
it's just going to get cleaned up.
So I would say in the next 5 years, there's going to be
really awesome genetic therapy. In 20 years, it's going to be
pretty much mainstream. So there.
And then there's other companies that are working on like micro
RNA and interference RNA. So, so all of that's going to
create all these major changes to biological systems without
having to take supplements or pharmaceuticals or things like
that. So I think in the really near
future, we're going to have some really big changes, which is why
I'm always on people that, you know, the people like in their
sixties, 70s and 80s, I really pushed them to do like the
highest package that we have. You know, where you're doing all
the age reversal and all the technology that we have to try
to slow your aging down, reverse types of aging, get rid of scent
analytic cells, optimize your tissue.
Because every year that you can buy yourself, you're buying
yourself into the future where all these new things are going
to be. And then those will buy you some
time. And so maybe they can ride that
out for quite a while. What?
What did your personal fascination for this come from?
Is there any like something happened in your youth or what?
What was your personal reason for wanting to pursue this field
to begin with? That's a good question.
I don't know. It's just I've always wanted to
do something useful. So like when my dad was alive,
you know, he's always just like, find something to do that you
have the gift for. Find something that you do that
you have passion for. And if you, if you can do both
of those things together, you don't really work right.
And you'll be really good at it. You won't really work and you'll
get you'll get a lot of joy out of it.
And so I was always pretty science minded as a kid and I
was always a tinkerer. So I like that.
I didn't really know exactly what I wanted.
But you know, after I got exposed to yoga and Kung Fu,
what I noticed was that people drastically changed their lives
for the better whenever they came in.
Like they got healthier, their mindset was better, right?
And so just doing those things was, you know, really life
changing for people. And then, you know, I'm like,
OK, this is great. There's a lot of yoga teachers.
There's a lot of martial artists.
You know, I want to be able to do something more.
I want to be able to do something medically.
I want to keep using these techniques.
But what else can I do? And then, you know, I was a
little, I really didn't want to go into medicine in the
beginning because I just felt that medical doctors were just
not really making good decisions, like engineers, you
know, and, you know, they just had to follow a certain
protocol. And it's just not what I wanted
to do. But then when I learned that,
like, you know, I didn't have to take insurance and that I could
just hang my own shingle and do things my own way and, you know,
then I was like, oh, well, all right, there's my calling right
now. I can blend all this stuff
together and, you know, gather data and show people that this
really does work. And that's what we do here,
right? And you know, when people come
in, we do this thing called the discovery process, which they do
in maintenance engineering. And they see where they're at,
right? They see how they're sleeping.
You know, they see the effect of their diet, they see their lab
scores, they see their inflammation, they see where
their hormones are, right? And then we get regular data
from them, like, you know, how strong are you And you know,
what's your fitness? Like what's you know, and get
all these parameters. And then a year later, we sit
down and we look at all these parameters, including like the
length of the telomeres and like all these biological clocks.
And they see their biological clocks go down, that they're
aging at a slower rate. They see their inflammation's
down, They see their hormones are better.
They look at their body composition, it's improved,
their sleep's improved. And so that really gives me
great fulfilling, you know, kind of life that I'm able to help
these people. There is one caveat though, and
that's that I call it a radical willingness.
If people don't have radical willingness, which we interview
everyone for now before they join the clinic.
And we call it an institute because it's a place of
learning. So they're constantly have to
learn more and more and we give them little modules to learn.
But if they don't have the radical willingness to like,
want to learn and want to change their lifestyle and take
supplements and do all these types of things, it's really not
for them. I used to let everyone join, but
now I don't. Now I just have this interview
and I tell them what's involved. And I'm like, does this sound
like something that's interesting to you that you
would want to devote your time to?
And, and most people say yes, but before I had this interview,
I would get people that would be overwhelmed and they wouldn't
want to do things and then the, the program wouldn't work as
well. So I think the interview is
really a great place to start. And, and I think it's for
everybody like that wants to change their life, that they
need to have radical willingness to do it because if you don't,
you're not going to overcome all your behavior because behavior
is really hard to change unless you really want to do it.
No, I totally agree with that. What, what do you think?
Like in working with people over the years, what do you find to
be the most limiting behavior that's just a common denominator
across the people that you've that you've seen over the time?
The number one behavioral trait that really gets people is
anxiety. Yeah.
It's crippling, and some of the anxiety is passed down through
generations. It's epigenetically modified.
There's a really interesting epigenetic experiment, and it
just opened my eyes up to anxiety and fear.
They take a female mouse and they put her in a maze and the
floors got the capacity to shock her.
And so she's just running around this maze and they put it in a
tiny little red fire hydrant. When she sees a little red fire
hydrant, they give her a shock. And they do this just a couple
of times, and then they stop shocking her.
But every time she sees a red fire hydrant, she jumps.
And then they take the red fire hydrant out and they don't put
it back in again. And she has children, and then
those children have children, and it goes down to the 7th
generation. And for those seven generations,
they haven't seen the red fire hydrant.
Only the first female saw the red fire hydrant.
The 7th generation mouse walking around the maze.
They put the little red fire hydrant back in and it jumps.
Wow, that's crazy. Right.
So, you know, I think that's one thing I try to teach the
patients is that, you know, a lot of your anxiety and fears,
they're probably not even yours. And, you know, I think that
gives people a little bit more strength that like I can
overcome this and to get to get to challenge their thoughts.
I said a lot of people, the doctor Joe Dispenza to go to his
retreats because I think he's really great at helping people
reprogram the way that they talk about themselves to themselves,
right? The meditations are great, but
really changing yourself talk is massive and I don't think people
really understand like how often they're speaking I'll of
themselves or of the closest people next to them and how much
that affects their health. If you can change yourself talk,
I think that that's really the most important thing you can do
to really start changing behavior.
The other thing that we do is I like to use Doctor Jordan
Peterson's tools that he has online.
So he has two fantastic tools. One of them is called
understandmyself.com and the other one is selfauthoring.com.
And I have people start with Understand myself because it
gives them the big 5 of their personality with a really
detailed explanation. And So what I tell people is
that once you do that, you understand how you're filtering
reality. You know, because your
personality is going to filter the truth of what you're
experiencing. And once you know how that
filter works, then you have a better idea of what the truth
really is. As long as you constantly kind
of, you know, be be diligent and you know, make sure that you're
taking a look at reality the way it is.
And then self authoring is a really fantastic package.
The patients that have done it and what what they usually come
back to me with is that that was better than two years of therapy
because they had to process all the stuff in their past.
They had to process all the things in the present and then
they had to create what they wanted out of the future.
Like what is my purpose? What am I going to be doing?
How do I want to maximize the amount of time I have left in my
life? And that changes everything
because now they have all this purpose and they have a plan.
It just makes all the other behavior changes so much easier.
Yeah, no, I totally agree there. I think a lot of people go
through life, they drift through life with no sense of purpose or
plan. And so much time is wasting, so
much opportunity, so much sense of fulfillment is just gone.
Oh yeah, I mean, like, how can you, how can you get out of bed
if you don't know why you're getting out of bed?
Yeah, exactly. You think you're going to live
forever? I don't know, I'd say the odds
are against it, but there's a possibility, right?
And so I, I would love to live and because I think that, I
mean, you could live for millions of years and you'd
still wouldn't get to do everything, you know, I mean,
there's, there's just so much knowledge available.
There's even just on this planet, you know, like people
will say like, oh, I've been to that country.
Like, what percentage of that country?
Like, you know what I mean? Like laid out on the map, like
how many streets you walked, right?
Or like where you went in that place.
It's just a tiny fraction of these places to visit, right?
And to do things and all the hobbies and all the things to
learn. So like, it's endless.
And then, you know, we'll be exploring other worlds than
this. So yeah, there's so much to
live. For the people that can afford
it. I highly suggest doing cryonics.
Cryonics has been around for over 50 years and over the last
five years it's really gotten good.
How what cryonics is, is basically preserving yourself in
a frozen state after you die. And this whole idea that you're
dead after 5 minutes is so silly.
Think about like organs. You know, if somebody donated a
kidney in China and it's sent, you know, over to the US to be
placed into somebody, that kidney when it was taken out is
technically dead, right? Because there's no blood supply
to it and there's no oxygen supply to it.
And it's just put in this standard Styrofoam container,
you know, with, with, you know, and kept cold but not frozen.
And then it's shipped here. And then you plug it into the
new person in surgery and voila, the kidney starts right back up.
So those cells weren't dead. So when they say that you're
dead, you're really not right. Those cells go into a dormant
type of stasis. There were some medical students
that went to this pig farm and where they slaughtered the pigs
and the pigs heads were in the corner and they're like, when
were these pigs slaughtered? And they told them the time they
took the pigs heads back to the lab and they hooked the heads
back up to a heart lung machine to re establish the oxygen and
blood supply and they put electrodes on the brain and they
got a normal brain signature after these pigs have been dead
for hours. So dead's not really dead.
And so you have plenty of time to be frozen and the new types
of freezing, they drain your blood out, they replace it with
like a biological antifreeze, kind of similar to like how
frogs have biological antifreeze that's naturally in their in
their body and how they can freeze frozen for the whole
winter and then they just thaw out in the spring and jump
around. So we're using a little bit
different chemicals in these companies.
Probably one of the most famous ones is Alcor down in Arizona.
But there's one there's like there's one up in California,
there's another in Detroit. There's a bunch, there's one in
Russia, there's one in China. So they're popping up all over
the place now. And you can even get a life
insurance policy and then sign over the life insurance policy
to the company so that the cost of it is covered by your life
insurance because your life insurance policy now doesn't do
anything to protect your life. That money just goes to somebody
else after you die. But now you can use a life
insurance policy to actually preserve your life by, you know,
paying for you to be frozen. And then, you know, we don't
have the ability to bring you back out now.
But as long as those tissues have been preserved without
fractures, you know, from crystal formation, the people in
the future should be able to bring us back.
And what what do you think? Is there any estimated time as
to when that would be feasible? So I would say almost all of the
research has been going into how to freeze people.
Only recently in the last couple years have they really been
starting to turn to how are we going to thaw these people out?
Because I think we're, we've almost got it down to where
there's not going to be that much better of a freezing
technique in the future. I'm sure they were going to
improve it, but they don't really need to because they've
got it down to the point where there's not a lot of cellular
damage and there's not a lot of damage to DNA, especially the
membranes. So now it's going to be how do
we thaw these people out? But more than that, what they
have to figure out is you can't thaw somebody out until you can
figure out how to fix what killed them.
Otherwise you're just going to bring them back to die again.
So that's where the future technology is going to be really
focused on, you know, how do we fix these different problems?
And it'll be at all these different levels.
Some of those things will be, you know, solved in the next few
years. Some of those things might take
100 years, just depending on the level of complexity.
You know, say somebody died from a metastatic, you know, stage 4
cancer that got all over their body.
That's going to be a really difficult thing to bring
somebody back from, right? But you know, it's just a
problem. So that should be able to be
solved somewhere in the future. Have there been any willing
volunteers that are totally healthy that are down to freeze
themselves in a healthy state and then let enough?
I'm sure there are people, but they don't allow it.
So it's just part of the policies of these companies.
You know, what would be great is if they could freeze you, you
know, when when you're on your deathbed, right before you
actually die, Like if they were to give you like, you know,
euthanasia, which is, you know, outlawed in most of the states.
But you know, you got someone who's really suffering and they
have no quality of life left. Like I'm all for that,
Especially like if you give them that promise of being frozen,
you know, and some people say it's an empty promise, but like
if you're buried or cremated, you have a zero percent chance
of coming back. If you're frozen and you have a
chance of coming back, we don't know what the percentage is, but
it's actually on the table. Like you can come back.
Like, you know, it's theoretically possible.
So I think it's great. Especially like, you know, you
got these kids that have a terrible cancer and you know,
they're not going to live till their 8th birthday or something
like that. Well, why not freeze them,
right? Because one, it makes them feel
a little bit better. It makes the parents feel
better. Because, I mean, it would make
me feel better if I had a child that was frozen versus a child
that was buried in the ground. Well, now I have hope.
The other one, all I can do is have faith.
I'd rather have hope. Yeah.
Do you think with regards to the, the the services of
freezing what, what, what is the cost of that now I guess I'm
assuming pretty cost prohibitive for the the masses?
It is and that's why that life insurance policy makes sense,
right? Because the masses all have an
opportunity to get a life insurance policy right?
And then you just sign that over cash pricing.
I think you know, they're all different.
The most expensive 1 is about 250,000 for your full body.
They will also just do your head for like 80 grand thinking that
you know they'll give you a new body when you come back.
Some of the other companies are a lot cheaper cheaper.
It just depends on where you're looking.
Because I'm assuming if they were to figure out how to bring
you back, like you're pretty much brought back in the
physical state that you were in when you got frozen to begin
with. So if you were the.
Technology. Yeah, like if you're doing it at
the on your deathbed and you're elderly, then you may be
resuscitated at some point in the future when they've got the
technology to do so, but you're still in your old version body.
Yeah, and that's where regenerative medicine comes into
into play and age reversal. So the advancements in stem
cells, the advancements in genetics and in, you know, micro
RNA and the other interfering molecules, I think that's where
the big changes are going to be made so that like you'll
basically grow a new body. Benjamin Button for real.
Benjamin Button for real? Yeah.
Do you fear death? I don't fear death, but I don't
want it. I just think that, you know,
we're the 1st generation that ever had the chance to even
really dream about it, you know, with any kind of like scientific
backing. But the state of health in the
world is horrible. And even the people that are
trying to be healthy, they are so full of toxins, it's not even
funny. One of the one of the tests that
we do here every year on people is we do a really detailed test
that includes like heavy metals and pesticides and herbicides
and volatile compounds like from all the emissions that are
thrown into the air. Different types of plastics and
you would be surprised to see how toxic people really are.
And so that's something that you know, your lifestyle is not
going to change all that much unless you like, you change
where you're eating and what water you're drinking and are
you filtering your air? But what if you live in a crazy
urban area and you're walking around?
You're going to get exposed, right?
So we do a lot of detox and the detoxes work really well and
they're tailored to the toxins that are inside someone.
One of the things people can do really to help minimize their
toxins is sauna. The infrared saunas tend to work
a little bit better for detox than regular sauna.
And it really, I mean, they both work really well.
Don't get me wrong. When you're doing infrared, what
happens is your core body temperature goes up faster than
in a hot sauna because the infrared's kind of cooking you
from the inside. Think about like you ever been
somewhere where it's like, I don't know, 3540° but it's
really bright and sunny out up in the mountains and you walk
outside with a T-shirt and you're like, oh, I feel warm.
And it's the infrared heat from the sun that's going through
your skin and it's heating you up from the inside, right when
you're in a hot room, just the, the hot air touching your skin
and you breathing it is what's warming you.
So it takes a little longer for your core body temperature to go
up. So if you were to do like a 20
to 30 minute sauna, your core body temperature would be at a
higher temperature in the infrared than it would be in the
hot sauna. And then if you stayed in there
for longer than 30 minutes, then your core body temperature goes
up higher in the hot sauna because it's like like 200°
versus the other. But if you want someone to do
sauna on a regular basis and you need to do it about 3 * a week
for about 20 to 30 minutes for it to really have a change in
your toxin profile and for it to increase heat shock proteins,
which help the folding of proteins.
So it's just easier to do infrared, plus it's easier for
someone to acquire an infrared for their home.
Right. I found that like the people
that don't have it in their home, it's just not convenient
enough. Yeah, no, I completely agree.
I'm in the market for one right now.
I got to get one. I I really like high tech health
company. I did.
They're out of Boulder. I've done a lot of research on
all the infrared saunas. Look at their technology.
They have really the best emitters that are out there
because they don't have near infrared which can be damaging
to the body and they have really low EMF which we don't want a
lot of that either. And their wood that they use has
no off gassing. So they only use Poplar or
hemlock and no glues, no plywood, no nothing like that
because those all off gas toxins.
What about nutritionally speaking?
Like, what would you like? Know what you know?
How do you structure your own personal dietary choices?
Yeah, I'm a little extreme for myself, but I I did it mostly
when I was first getting into yoga.
I had a yoga teacher, Shannon, Shannon Gannon out of New York,
Jiva Mukta Yoga, and she proposed a question.
She just said to me, every time you do something, just ask
yourself, do I agree with this? Whether it's words coming out of
your mouth, whether it's food going in your mouth, whether
it's an action you take or a car you drive or whatever it is,
right? And I was out with friends and
we were just going to get a steak burrito like we've done.
I, I don't know how many nights in a row at late night.
And I'm sitting there, I'm like, OK, I'm looking at this burrito
and like, do I agree with it? And I was just like, hell no.
And I'm like, I know that these animals were probably not cared
for very well because, you know, came from like a cheap place,
right? So I'm sure that they were fed
GMO grain. I'm sure that the water wasn't
really well regulated. I'm sure there was pesticides
and herbicides and growth hormones involved.
I'm sure there were soil erosion.
I'm sure that the animals weren't kept in a very ethical
way or killed in a very ethical way, right?
So I'm like, OK, so environmentally is a disaster,
ethically is a disaster. And I know that this is not very
healthy for me, right? And so I was like, well, what's
the benefit? And I'm like, well, I like the
taste. And so I had a kind of a
revelation there and I was just like, OK, how can I change?
You know what, I'm going to eat so that I don't have these
issues, right? And So what I, I decided that I
was just going to go plant paste there.
And I've been plant based ever since.
That said, I think that to do a plant based diet, you have to
really be knowledgeable about how you're getting your
nutrition. I've seen so many people fail a
plant based diet because they didn't really know what to eat.
And the other thing is people usually like to eat based on how
full they get. And when you switch over to
plant based, you have to eat a much larger volume of food to
get the same macro nutrients. You're going to get way more
micronutrients, but your macro nutrients you're going to need
to eat more volume. I find that this is a little bit
more sensitive to females than males.
They're a little bit more sensitive to how much food
they're actually putting in their stomach.
And when they feel full, they don't want to eat anymore.
And like, you know, if you're used to eating like chicken or
beef or something like that, you're just it's, it's macro
nutrient dense. And if you're eating plants and
you're not getting a lot of beans and, and you know, other
forms or soy and things like that, you're going to be protein
deficient. So it can be done really well.
One of the other reasons I really like plant based is in
age reversal medicine. What we found is it's not,
there's a lot of factors. So one of the things that we're
trying to do is we want to lower what's called mtor.
And it's the molecular target of rapamycin.
And if you're, if you're a strength athlete or a
bodybuilder, you want to kind of turn mtor up.
And the analogy is kind of like a a candle.
So if I light the candle at both ends, it's going to burn really
bright, but it's not going to burn for very long, right?
And so there's a lot of ways that we can Jack up our
metabolism, but we pay the price long term.
So the one study that shows that you can extend life from a
single celled Organism through worms, insects, reptiles,
mammals all the way through that's never failed is calorie
restriction. When you restrict calories
around 15 to 20%, you can really increase lifespan and increase
health span and decrease single points of failure.
And, you know, we have a really long term study like over 40
years, University of Wisconsin and macaque monkeys and they
have less dementia, less Gray hair, less osteoporosis, less,
you know, pains and aches. I mean, like they're, it works,
but it's really difficult to do calorie restriction, right?
Like you have to like count all your calories to the, you know,
and be really accurate about it. And then you end up being a
little bit gaunt, right? You don't have like a really
great frame to you. So there's some issues with
calorie restriction, but there's a lot of things that we've
learned from it, from all of the data.
And one of the things that we've learned is that it depends on
the kind of calories as well. So if you get a lot of calories
from amino acids like methionine and leucine, those turn up the
metabolic rate a little bit too high.
And sulfur amino acids like methionine, they change your pH
and they make it harder for your body to maintain an alkaline pH
and so that causes more calcification to arteries and
dystrophic calcifications in the brain and things like that.
So when you go plant based, you decrease your methionine and you
decrease your leucine almost automatically without really
trying that hard. So that's another benefit of it.
But again, you know, if you don't, if you don't really know
how to balance it, you could be thrown off.
But it has really great benefit. And the other benefit, like I
talked about earlier was Doctor Dean Ornish, you know, of
they've tried all kinds of diets on coronary artery, you know,
blockages. And the only one that worked was
a plant based diet. That's the only one that
reversed the disease. So that's I, I really like plant
based for that reason, but you have to really educate people
and it also takes a little bit of time for them to get used to
it because you have to change your microbiome.
And. When you start changing your
diet, the microbiome that's present is going to fight
against that diet, right? And you're not going to feel
very well, but once it changes, then you're going to feel really
great. Yeah, I know it's super
interesting. I definitely agree with you in
that a lot of people that have gone the plant based route or
missing some key components, they're not getting the complete
spectrum nutrients they need. Often times they become they
lose a lot of lean tissue. You know, I'm doing pretty much
the exact opposite of you. I'm pretty much all animal
based. I'm doing, you know, keto have
now for 10 years. But I agree with you and the
desire to do something that's right for the environment, right
from an animal welfare standpoint.
I hunt a lot. So I'm getting high quality
animals that are fed the most natural diet possible And it's
not, you know, negatively impacting, you know, through
like mono cropped agriculture and things of that nature.
So I totally agree with you in wanting to pursue that way of,
you know, sustainable. I mean I have data in the clinic
too that the people that eat wild animals, their profiles are
totally different than farm raised.
Yeah, I believe it for the better, I'm assuming.
It is night and day, yeah. So if you're going to eat meat,
the best meat to eat is wild. Yeah, no, I totally, completely
agree there. And I also, I tried to
incorporate, you know, strategic periods of time in a caloric
deficit. Like when I'm doing a
competition prep for bodybuilding, I'm obviously
putting myself in a deficit, you know, losing a ton of body fat.
I can't sustain that indefinitely.
So I'll kind of have a yin Yang approach with periods of time in
a deficit, periods of time at a surplus from a metabolic and
hormonal standpoint. But I feel like a lot of people
spend far too much time in one or the other, and that leads to
a lot of poor health outcomes. Oh yeah, And you know, I have, I
have a pro bodybuilder. I have a bunch of other
bodybuilders in the clinic. I try to keep them as healthy as
I can. And, you know, we've had a lot
of discussions about, you know, 'cause they go over their labs
and they can see the difference in the different cycles of where
they're at, right? And they can see the stress that
bodybuilding puts on their body, especially like, you know,
inflammatory and in, in the biological clock spectrum,
right? But I try to just make a deal
with them. I'm like, compete for a certain
amount of time and then start competing less as you get older
because, you know, the older you get, the faster you get old.
And we know, like from a recent study, that there's two major
events in your life that make you age really fast.
Once 1 is in your early 40s and one is one, right?
You get to about 60 and you just go through this massive change
where you age really quickly with the bodybuilders.
I just the fluctuation up and down is a high stress on their
body and the very high protein ends up over stimulating the
metabolic cycle. And it's like like doctor
Michael Koge has talked about this a lot.
You only have so many enzyme cycles in a lifetime.
Like you can only make so many enzymes, right?
Like there's kind of a limit to that and it's not fully true.
But like you, your metabolism is what makes you age, but your
metabolism is what makes you stay alive, right?
So we can't stop metabolism, but we can slow it down, right?
And, and it's not the answer to aging because the answer to
aging is in reversing it and causing you to repair all the
damage, right? So it's, we want to do a little
bit of both. So we're trying to use some of
the things that help us repair right now and some of the things
that help us slow down South. If you can maintain your muscle
mass with the least amount of protein that you can find, do
that, right? Because if you're just taking a
whole bunch of extra protein, but you're not really noticing
gains, then it's just going to go to waste and it's going to
cause damage, right? And it's going to end up over
stimulating mtor and all these other types of things.
So I just try to get them to dial it in.
Now their sport in general, you need higher protein.
You just do right? Or you're not going to be able
to like repair from your workouts and you're not going to
be able to keep lean tissue on and things like that.
But we can also measure to see like when are you getting too
much? And some of those things you can
see like in kidney tests, you can see like blood area nitrogen
and you can see like how well are you balancing nitrogen,
right? Because you just don't want too
much that you can't use. I'm a big proponent of amino
acids. I like that a little bit better
because you're a little bit more targeted.
And the other thing that you can do is it's a really old
supplement. It's called ornithine alpha
ketoglutarate. One of the anti aging
supplements is calcium alpha ketoglutarate.
It's expensive and I don't, I don't use it because if you use
OK G, which is cheap and you can use it in really high amounts,
you'll get enough alpha ketoglutarate to help you with
anti aging. And the really cool thing about
ornithine alpha ketoglutarate, it was created by French doctors
for burn patients. When you're a burn patient,
you're releasing way too much nitrogen into the system and it
messes around with your kidney and your liver.
And So what OK G does is it helps you recycle all that
nitrogen. And so I find it for the
bodybuilders and just anybody working out in general, taking
it right after your workout and then fasted before you go to
bed, you'll notice like you repair faster, you feel better
and your labs get better. Now one thing I do think the
bodybuilders have got going in their favors that they have more
lean tissue and why that is more metabolically demanding.
Just anecdotally speaking to people that I have encountered
in life that have seemingly more muscle as they age tend to live
a much higher quality of life. Oh yeah, 100% right.
Part of the protocols here are strength protocols.
I try to get even my bodybuilders to do more strength
than pure hypertrophy training. And the reason being strength
training, you're going to do lower reps, higher weight.
As long as you have a really good form and you know how to
brace your core, you're not going to get hurt.
Whereas, you know, traditional hypertrophy training, you're
going to do more sets and more reps and that tends to have a
little bit more metabolic demand and more cellular damage.
So if they can get the same hypertrophy out of strength
training, I highly suggest that. Not that you're not going to do
some, you know, kind of cross between the two, But if you can
do more strength training, you tend to have less damage.
And, you know, in a seasoned athlete, I don't think you're
going to have that much of a difference in hypertrophy.
And stronger people are just, you know, like Mark Ripto says
they're hard to kill. Yeah, for sure.
What do you think from a psychological standpoint is
going to happen if we reach this escape velocity and death is no
longer on the table? Like how do you think that will
shift people's overall mentality going through life?
Like I feel like for me personally, knowing that there
is an end to my life, I try and make all the more time to focus
and cherish on the moments that I have on this planet.
Do you think that will shift for the better or worse if people
live forever? Yeah, I mean, it's a really cool
question. The funny thing is, so there's a
an old, old book from the Vedas, and it's a story called the
Mahabharata. And in the Mahabharata, the
protagonist is asking one of the sages.
He's like, what's one of the most wondrous things, you know?
And he said one of the most wondrous things I know is that
every single person knows that they're going to die one day,
but they don't live their life like that.
They always live their life like they're going to live forever,
right? And that's what I normally see
with people, even when I'm talking to them, like over at
lunch or I'll meet somebody new and stuff like that.
Like they never find it pressing to start doing the type of
medicine that we're doing because they're they're like,
oh, I'll do it another day. And it's like, you're 75 years
old. How many days do you have left?
Right. So I don't think that the most
people actually think that they're going to die like they
know it, but they're they live their life like they're going to
live forever. And like you'll see most people
die and their estate is in a mess, right?
They really knew that they were going to die one day.
Like they'd have their will in order, they'd have their estate
all in order, right? They'd have things prepared for
like how they wanted to be, you know, at the end.
But people really don't live like that.
When I think what's going to happen is when people start
living an extraordinarily long life, and not even that they
live forever, but let's just say like, they start living to be
150, right? They're going to care more about
the world that they live in because they're going to live
long enough to see those changes, right?
They're going to live long enough to see that tree grow.
You know they're going to live long enough to see like this,
pollution destroy the river. Right.
They're going to see long enough to see like these impacts on
their environment. And so I think they'll care more
about the world that they live in because they're going to
actually see those changes in their lifetime.
But I don't really know, like the rest of it.
I, I think it's going to the world that we're going to be
living in is going to be so drastically different than the
one that we live in now. I mean, most of these jobs are
going to be gone to AI, right? People are going to have to find
a whole different kind of purpose in life.
We're going to have to find a way to like, have some kind of
basic income for people. I mean, there's major, major
problems coming up. So I don't know how lifespan is
going to really play into that. I do think though, that living a
longer life is going to be a benefit for all of humanity
because the longer you live, you get hopefully you'll become more
wiser. And if we're able to keep you
healthy and not, you know, just really old, you'll be able to
contribute more. So if you don't, if you don't
retire, I mean, just think about it, you know, you get to be 60
something years old, like you have a lot of wisdom from all
the stuff that you've done in your life.
And if you had the body of a 20 year old, how effective could
you be, right? I mean, like, it's just
unbelievable. And then like if you were going
to be the effectiveness of a 20 year old from 65 to like 110, I
mean, like maybe you have three different careers that you're
fantastic in. Yeah, no, I think the sky truly
is the limit. I mean, we're on the precipice
of some big changes, without a doubt.
So it'll be very interesting to see what the, I mean, I've got a
2 1/2 year old and I've got one on the way.
So I'm very curious to see what the life they're going to be
living in the next 50 years is going to look like for sure.
Yeah, that'll be cool. You know, and I think there's
always going to be a need for movement.
Even if, you know, Liz Parrish's gene therapy keeps you strong
and muscle bound without having to do any work, you still have
to move to train your nervous system.
You still have to move to just learn about your own body.
And there, you know, you just feel good when you move.
So I think that's always going to be a necessary thing.
I hope so. I hope so.
Hope this, you know, advancement technology doesn't lead to a
Society of, you know, just inundated people that I don't
know, like they, they don't look, I, I think we need hard
things in life, hardly like physically demanding things,
mentally demanding things. We need hard things.
It's like that's what has strengthened us as a species up
to this point. So hopefully that is able to be
just amplified for positive and we don't lose touch of that as
as time goes on. Exactly.
I love it. I love it.
Well, very, very insightful. I'm definitely going to have to
keep an eye on your work and just see how all this unfolds
because there's most definitely some exciting things in the
pipeline that we'll see in our lifetime, much less those of our
children. So it'll be it'll be curious to
see what happens for sure. Yeah.
You know, and the whole thing about diet is get lab testing,
somebody who's functional trained, you know, so that and
then I get your microbiome checked from a a really good
lab, which there's not very many of them.
There's a lot of garbage microbiome testing out there.
So that's going to really give you the big picture, you know,
what kind of microbiome you have is going to really determine
like your health and you know, the the type of diet you got to
see how it's affecting your Physiology are.
There any microbiome tests that you personally recommend?
Right now there's a company called Therium that is going to
be having one and then there's another one.
There's another test for the micro, your mitochondria called
Meescreen. And there's a company, you know,
that's associated with them that's going to have one.
But I would stick with their technology because it's the next
kind of level to look at things. Most of the other microbiome
testing is just really not that accurate.
Not that not that it's useless. Meescreen is the mitochondria
test and Thorium their. Their test has omics testing and
they're coming out with next generation testing for the
microbiome. Nice, I will definitely check
those out for sure. Yeah, those are great tests that
you can actually get at home and just do a finger prick and you
can really learn a lot about your health just with those two
tests. Awesome.
Well, I'm definitely an advocate for, you know, what can be
measured can be managed, as I say.
So like, no, there's no sense in just this guessing.
Mindless, you know, shooting in the dark, like actually get the
lab drawn, get the test done. Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for
that because if you don't know what you're, if you don't know
where you're starting from, you can't possibly know where you're
going. Yeah.
And Charlotte, you know, I always try to get people to
incorporate either fasting, mimicking diets or fasting every
quarter for five days. They're just fantastic benefits
for that. You know, you can go.
Walter Longo has most of the data on that.
Yeah. That's awesome.
And then, you know, keto diets are fantastic for certain
things, right? If you have autoimmune disease,
keto diets almost work every time, right?
If you have certain types of cancer, keto diets are
absolutely fantastic for that. The only time that we have
really issues with keto is over long periods of time, but you
can see it in the labs before that rears its head and you'll
get a little bit less power output when you're on keto
versus when you have enough carbs.
What kind of markers are popping up in the labs when you see
people experiencing some adverse reactions to keto long term, we.
Mostly see it in the liver. So I see, I like to do full body
Mris and sometimes I'll start to see more fat accumulating the
liver and more inflammation in the liver.
I'll start to see liver enzymes going up and I'll start to see
kidney function decreasing. So it's just stuff that I've
noticed over time. I also noticed that their
biological clocks don't decrease as well as they do when they're
plant based on a higher carbohydrate diet.
Interesting, I have to get some of these labs drawn and and take
a look. I mean, every time I get blood
markers done everything seems to be in check, but I've been doing
that for 10 years. And everyone's different, right?
I do have some guys on keto for different reasons and you know,
I keep them really well balanced.
Yeah, it's totally. No, it's all individual and it's
really important to get labs right because we can't go off
the way that we feel. We really can't.
Our feelings and our emotions are just not that accurate.
Yeah, I definitely am a fan of getting the data and just
knowing with certainty. So 100% on the same page will be
there. This, this is good, this is
good. Where do people go to find out
more about you and just dive deeper into your world?
My clinic is the Pazio Institute, Paz I/O.
Then you just go to thepazioinstitute.com.
It's really great information on the website there, different
memberships. They can fill out a form there
and then we'll call them and have an interview with them.
They explain everything we can and see if they're a really
great candidate and they can join up.
They can learn about the Institute for Medical
Maintenance Engineering at immeglobal.com to see what some
of the future stuff we're going to be doing.
That's going to be super interesting because all of our
data is going to go into a data lake there and we've been
training in AI and so that's just going to really improve
everything that we're doing. Most of the age reversal
clinics, they're not really collecting the data in the way
that we're doing it so that we can see whether or not the
protocols we're doing really are working and what can we do
better. We also have compliance data, so
most people are on different supplements and medications and
they're given all these bottles and they're given basically a, a
hobby to do, right? Like, OK, you can take this fish
oil, you can take this curcumin, you can take these medicines.
We make it really simple and we put it into packaging.
So they get these little packs and they get them throughout
different times of the day and everything's in one little
package. And then, you know, they go out
every month so we can keep track of their compliance so we know
whether or not they've been taking their stuff or they
haven't been taking their stuff. Yeah, that's super smart there.
I like that. Yeah, it just makes it super
simple because I don't want to give you a hobby of like, you
know, you have to keep track of 15 different bottles of
supplements and five different medications, you know?
Yeah, totally. Just we'll, we'll take care of
that for you. All you have to do is open the
pack and swallow it. Make it easy, less decision
fatigue. Yeah, for sure.
Right. And like you know, why do you
want to waste your life ordering bottles and opening bottles?
Yeah, well, awesome. I will definitely link out to
all your sources, maybe each people to find you.
We ought to do a follow up podcast in about 100 years
because we'll both be around then, right?
Sounds fantastic. Awesome.
I certainly appreciate the time, Doctor.
I've learned a ton. And let's definitely keep in
touch because I do want to keep a pulse on what's what all what
was going on with the technology and where we're headed as a
species. For sure love to catch up with
you. Thank you Sir.
Take care all. Right.
Thanks again. Have a great one.
You too.