What's going on? Ladies and gents Robert snakes
Quito Savage.com. Today?
I've got special guest good friend and fellow natural
bodybuilding, competitor Flex on the line.
He actually beat me in a prior competition.
I was on his podcast about two weeks ago and we just kind of
like brought things back up and talk to since 2017.
We shared the stage together. So it was awesome to catch up
and dive deep into what he's been doing from a nutritional
standpoint. He was vegan for like eight plus
years. He's just recently kind of gone
more towards the ketogenic diets that mad about flexibility diet.
He's just really been doubling down on that with great success.
So it just super awesome to catch up with him.
Talk about natural bodybuilding, while he does natural
bodybuilding. What he's doing with his diet
it. Now what his plans are going
forward from a business and entrepreneurial standpoint,
nothing but respect for this guy, thoroughly enjoyed the
conversation. I've got no doubt that you will
enjoy it as well. Without further Ado, sit back,
relax. Enjoy the podcast with flex.
You're live Flex. What's up, brother?
What's up? My man?
How you doing? Cool and good man, go get life
is good. It's awesome.
Talk to you again. I was on your podcast.
I don't know. Was that two weeks ago?
Now, I guess two weeks ago right before the New Year's man, right
before the New Year's and it was cool catching up with you
because I haven't talked to you since 2017 when we shared a
stage 2. Together, man.
It's been a while brother. It's been a while.
You'd be said to me on Instagram and from the sounds of it.
You've been kind of dabbling in Kido Kido issues, what you call
it, correct. He don't wish man, like these
days. I don't even like to label kind
of what I'm doing, man, because the moment we start labeling,
people start getting a perception and started getting
these weird thoughts, but Quito wish vegan ish, flexitarian, as
sure, everything is, and everything is just mixed up.
You know, I'm saying? I'm taking the The best of
multiple breeds and rolling with it, the stain flexible.
Totally respect that man. Well, to give the listener some
context we competed together in 2017 and we talked about this a
little bit on your show, but you beat me in that class.
We were both doing open bodybuilding.
There's only like four of us in that, that class, if I remember
correctly and then you, you took the crown on that one.
We're both hitting the splits in the pose down.
We're both rocking and rolling. You got the overall title on
that, but It's just been awesome kind of competing with you mean
like our whole little tribe of natural body.
Builders is all really cool. Like the whole camaraderie.
Is there. Everybody genuinely wants to see
everyone else succeed, but we're all super competitive on stage.
So I've always had respect for you and everybody else that runs
around in our group, but it's cool to see you, you know, kind
of dabbling in other nutritional, protocols beyond
what the traditional or status quo is, I guess we should say,
in the, in the context of the natural bodybuilding nutritional
circles. Absolutely, man.
Absolutely. And the thing is Robert.
It's like, I wanted to find a plan.
That was my selfishly easy for me, write that I can follow
every day and sustain like a like a, you know, not just a
lane level of body fat throughout the year, but stay
strong recover faster, but for me, I have so much things going
on. And you can appreciate this as
an entrepreneur. Having your own businesses.
We got to stay mentally sharp, right?
And and the past meant, like, I had this Statics.
I had the look, but Sometimes, my mental Clarity wasn't all
there, and sometimes, like, not even my mental, health wasn't
all there. So, I wanted to find a way,
where a balance kind of Aesthetics as well as health and
Optimal Performance man, and, and I've stumbled across that,
you know, as of recently, I mean, that's that's why I kind
of reached out to you. And then, that's why I did start
kind of going more towards the keto lower carb diet, again,
right? Well, I mean, you can't talk to
me a little bit about your Evolution as a Body butter, when
I talk to you previously, but from from a dieting standpoint,
you've been key to or you've been doing vegan.
Pretty much exclusively vegan for the last little stint,
right? That's what you've been doing
predominantly here lately, right?
So I want to say the last about eight years roughly, man.
I was kind of on and off like almost pure vegan sometimes to
extreme, right? But when I first started
bodybuilding men, I was just eating kind of a balanced diet,
you know, focus on Whole Foods. Really like, count calories,
macros, nothing like that. Like, just started dabbling into
calories when I first competed, but I found that just training
some cardio and like eating clean like worked for my first
bodybuilding competition. And first showman, it was back
in 2011 June and I got my butt kicked, right?
I didn't know what I was doing, man.
Like I was imposing, right? It was my first show.
I was nervous and I think I took fourth place at an NPC show.
So this is before I Even knew about like the natural
bodybuilding Federation. So, that was kind of my first
experience into bodybuilding, but I just fell in love with the
process along the way. And, you know, it's haven't
looked back since from a vegan bodybuilding standpoint.
Did you notice? I mean, you've always looked
freaking shredded that I've ever since I've seen you ever since
I've known you. But did you notice any issues in
like retaining lean tissue without, you know, animal-based
meets at all when you were doing more of a vegan protocol?
Not necessarily man, because I did get enough enough protein in
the form of have my own like supplement company.
So I do a couple protein, shakes a day.
And this this was mine. Do you like I'm telling you
this? Because I recently, switched, my
whole game plan, as of December. It's a second Zach, right?
But yeah, like, I didn't really find any, I guess, struggles
with retaining muscle, mass or even like, shrimp, none of that
stuff and it's almost quite the opposite.
Men, like everything's kind of stayed the same.
I'd recover quicker and I think it's because I was getting so
much micronutrients and in my body, you know, and I kind of
dabbled around with even like the protein intake.
Like some days I wasn't getting back before I was vegan and I
was doing maybe 200 300 grams of protein per day on the vegan
protocol. I was maybe around 150, 200 per
day grams of protein. It's way with like the protein
man cuz like I think we've all started from like this bro
dieting standpoint. At one point.
Another we all just read the magazines and it was like
looking at have chicken and rice, you know, seven times a
day, every two hours or else you're going to waste away to
nothing. So I think at some point,
everybody put her has had like 300 grams of plus protein in
their protocol and yeah, that that's often times.
Just the Bro, wisdom that carries through, and it's kind
of miserable eating that much protein.
Like, there's nothing Pleasant about eating that much protein.
In my opinion. What especially bro?
When it's not the, the most delicious protein, right?
What I mean by that is when I first started, you know
bodybuilding, it was like, Hey, eat the leanest cuts of meat
chicken, pray, your pan with with with oil spray, you know,
so it's like chicken breasts, lean ground beef, like turkey,
you know, Turkey, just a boring like Meats, bro, and it was
miserable. Right?
And it's hard to put down a chicken breast, right?
And Especially if you're like trying to go low carb and you
can't really sauce it up. You know, it's tough getting the
chicken breast, but it's like hey as I've developed my into my
bodybuilding career and got really good at cooking, you
know, and yeah, you get better but still man, like eating the
most lean cuts of meat and not the most fun.
So it's that's why I like once I went to the vegan route.
I was like, hey, I don't need to eat all that that brough lean
meat anymore. Stay strong.
I'm going to keep my muscle mass.
Right? What was the motivation for for
dabbling? Towards more of this keto
approach? Like, with if you were seeing
pretty good success with a vegan.
What was the motivation for switching from that?
I think men just just research knowledge and just raising my
own, you know, awareness level my own development and growth
not only as a coach but as a bodybuilder and just just as how
that's how I kind of am, right naturally.
I just like to soak up knowledge and I look at facts and data.
Data and look at science and it's like, if science is tell me
one thing. I got to give it a try.
No to try it for myself. And my second bodybuilding
competition gonna go back a little bit.
Actually. I took first place, man, big
class. There's probably eight, guys.
Eight or nine, guys. Again.
I competed in the lightweight now, right.
So my first show, I did middleweight second show, I did
lightweight. And what I noticed in the second
show is I did a ultra low carbohydrate diet.
High protein, but it was low fat, right?
So, that was kind of my first, you know, inkling that.
Hey, the lower carbohydrate diet works pretty damn effectively
and I was probably like I was one of the most shredded, you
know, dudes on the stage almost took the overall even.
I want my class of almost won the overall as well, you know,
against the big guys, right? As a lightweight.
And so I know, I know the low carb diet Works, where I had it
wrong this whole time, right? Robert is I was doing low-fat,
right? And you need good saturated
fats, Omega-3s, you know, to fight inflammation, lubricate
your joints, good gut, health, good brain health.
So back when I was, you know, doing the low carb and low fat
man. My I was miserable right?
Like my body was an optimal. Yeah.
I had the Aesthetics had the look but inside man, I wasn't
healthy as I could be and that's why I started dabbling into the
back to the keto world. The lower carb world, you know,
but also another tool that I apply almost every day man is
its fasting. Whether it be intermittent.
I'll kick in a long fast. What I mean by long as anything
about, you know, 24, 48 Hours, 72 hours.
And I think keto along with fasting man.
Is, is a, you know, one of the most like poet recipes to keep
us like just, you know, almost like in Tip-Top, condition
year-round. Yeah.
I mean I did. We agree with you.
I've been trying to, you know, shout that message from the
rooftops for a few years now. It's interesting because like a
lot of people like before, Kita was popular.
Like when I first started doing it, there wasn't really any body
butters that I was aware of that we're doing that didn't mean
they weren't out there. I just certainly didn't know of
them and there was once kids start becoming popular.
There would be a lot of body butters it like, oh, yeah, I do
Quito and they would say, you know, they would tell me what
their macros were and it would be like very, very low carb but
also very very high. Teen very, very low fat kind of
what you're describing in. A lot of people.
It's weird man. Like there's all this division
in the keto low-carb space, right now.
There's a lot of people are saying, you got to have high
protein, some people send you got to have high fat, and
there's all this division when it's like, we should all just be
on the same team. We're all advocating something
pretty similar, but a lot of them, the body butters that were
coming from there, bro, dieting asked background.
They were associating being kedo.
I simply just being low in carbohydrate, but if you're low
in carbohydrate and you're low in fat, And your protein is high
proteins. Not a great substrate for
energy. So you're not really going to
feel on perform. Optimally.
It's not going to be best from a hormonal standpoint, but they
were just associating that with being key to because the carbs
below. And I think a lot of body
builders have done that at some point other, but I wouldn't
really consider that a legitimate well-formulated
ketogenic diet. And once I started increasing
the fats, for me, personally, I just noticed that my hormonal
Health was better, and a lot of body builders assume that you
can't have very much dietary fat.
If the goal is to lose body fat. Lena's Diner got was with my
body fat are the longest I ever. Got was in my dietary fat was at
the highest it ever had been. Yeah, bro.
I totally agree with you. I mean, the the research speaks
for itself, right? There's so many, clinical
trials, studies, you know, double blind crippled blind,
Placebo studies, but also like empirical evidence.
I mean myself, you know, like a lot of the clients.
I'm coaching now and kind of transforming to this new style.
Dude. We're all getting crazy amazing
results quicker than ever. And it's like, it's More
sustainable, more simple, you know and it's funny because what
you described is what I described right when I first
started my journey, and I thought I was like, yeah, you
know, kiito's this low-carb, low-fat high-protein thing.
And so every time someone said, hey, I'm doing keto.
I would always get like kind of beer has, you know, I had a
reservation about it because I was like, yeah, been there done
that, you know, I didn't feel my best, but when I was doing the
low-carb low-fat, that wasn't keto.
So I was kind of even like I had a misunderstanding back in the
day and I was Miss labeling. What key do truly is and the
benefits of following, you know, the Kyoto Protocol close to the
T as possible, right? Yeah, and I feel like, you know,
from a from a natural bodybuilding standpoint,
especially like I look at, you know, all the efficacy for
occasion diet and people that are trying to improve their
cognitive function or improve their fight against cancer,
improve all these things Endurance, Sports, things of
that nature. There's not really a whole lot
of talk, right? For natural bodybuilding
specifically, but when you look at it from a natural body,
builders perspective, when your, when your body fat is incredibly
low like you and I both been sub five percent body fat.
When you start getting some 5% body fat things just start
changing, you know, like your hair stops growing your nails.
Stop growing. You stop going to the bathroom
like things. Just start getting weird and
foremost. Body butters that are doing
incredibly low dietary fat, on top of that, like their hormones
tank. Everything goes crazy.
They're in Zombie status, and they Much more likely to have
all these crazy binging Tendencies afterwards because
everything's out of whack. And for me, not saying this is
going to be the, you know, the case for everybody.
But what I did my last prep or my last several, perhaps, with a
ketogenic approach. Keeping dietary fat well, over
100 grams every single day. My hormonal fluctuation was
minimized. So it was much easier to reverse
diet out of that and it was just much more sustainable for me
from the get-go. Yeah, absolutely.
Bro, and I love how we're coming down now.
Now to really the science of it, right?
And if we don't understand like, hormonal balance, hormonal
control, and what could throw that balance and control off,
man? You don't really have full
awareness acknowledgement in control of your own situation,
right? So that's why I've really dove
into the research, man. I just not just keto but the
whole research around hormonal function cellular function, you
know, data might have mitochondria our gut health, our
brain health, how everything is just so, Integrated man.
They're all these complicated systems that we have.
And, you know, I've really, I think I've cracked the code man
on what foods that we have to eat to manipulate the
instructions, sending our hormones, and sells those
signals. That's, that's going to Keep us
optimal, keep us healthy, you know, keep our minds, right?
You know, fight inflammation, right?
Cellular Rejuvenation. So I feel like, hopefully what
we can provoke. Robber is more people to not
just listen to us man in other authorities, but you know, go do
your own research, right? Go do what's best for you.
But I think it's I love how we're connecting them because
there's a bunch of a lot of principles that our health Focus
that you and I are kind of we're saying the same thing.
Another topic we talked about And on my podcast was how we got
to eliminate or minimize processed foods, right?
Especially the ultra-processed foods.
So, even as a vegan, you know, there's still a lot of processed
foods that are available right, even paleo.
There's a lot of processed foods available and same thing with
key. Do, you know, believe it or not?
There's a lot of Quito foods that are kiddo friendly, but
they're still process. So I believe that, you know,
ketogenic lower carb diet, cutting out all the products.
Prost. No process crap.
Right. Processed carbs, processed
meats, and that's why I kind of went off the whole vegan path
man, because, you know, just just to get enough protein
right? Or to be satiated.
I was eating alternative meets. Look at the ingredients in those
alternative meets. It's a lot of the process stuff
that I'm now promoting to abstain from.
So men, if I can, I'll share my story right in terms of like
what I went through to kind of help me to help me like really
reflect raise my awareness and just make a change man like that
to really focus on health and not get too caught on, like the
whole extreme like vegan movement and as much as well as
I want to save the planet, man, right?
I got to focus on my health, man.
I got to be here for my family, for my, you know, my parents, my
siblings, my friends, and all the people that I'm helping and
it's like Health First Right, but I still believe that we can
still change the world, you know, by focusing on consuming
the right Foods. Totally.
I think a lot of the vegans, I think a lot of the vegans, you
know, like they have very admirable aspirations of saving
the planet but there's a lot of ignorance in that demographic
around what damage is actually being done to the planet to
afford a totally vegan lifestyle and it's not like, it's a
perfect Sunshine. A rainbow scenario by any means,
you know, I mean, there's pros and cons to everything, right,
but it's like, if we just Follow balance and like just like how
everybody always goes to homeostasis.
Right? If we all follow kind of just
balance principles man. I feel like we can all work
together and save the planet together.
Like we don't have to have these extreme paradigms and I believe
that if the messaging phraseology starts really
changing, you know, we could all work together instead of like
movements fighting against each other.
We work together and create one, massive integrated Movement.
Like that's I believe that that can happen, but it's People Like
Us. Acting role, like the fact that
this extreme X vegan is connecting with a the keto
Savage, bro, like that's change table.
It's good, man. Like I like, I like that because
I don't ever want to become so dogmatic.
And like that holier-than-thou with, with nutritional protocol
that I personally have used to see success in my life.
I'm passionate about the kids think that because of what it's
done for my life, and I'm passionate about sharing it to
people, but if I ever come across as condescending to
people that don't follow my protocol.
Then I'm not doing anybody. Any good.
You know, all you got to do in life is have the right
intentions, maintain your integrity and put forth a
positive message in for those that it resonates strongly with
you can make a positive impact, you know, absolutely man.
Absolutely. And you know, back to us being
coaches to write. If we can't transform involve
ourselves, right? Using the, the most up-to-date
empirical evidence scientific studies.
No research. Then we're not the best coach,
right? We got to evolve.
With the best information that's out there.
That's that has been scientifically proven.
And you know, I used to be one of those were at look at people
like, oh they're not on a vegan diet.
So I'm not going to work with them or hey, did I want to
follow macros? I don't want to work with them
and I've just changed up my whole style now man.
Like I'm more like principle-based instead of just
saying, you know Thou shalt do this only kind of thing, right?
And the more strategies the more approaches that we could teach
people and I'm emphasizing. Teaching because some coaches,
man, they'll give a client a plan but then the client doesn't
take accountability on their own to do their own research to
understand why their coach is, you know, giving the plan or the
instructions are getting from the coach.
That's, that's kind of a like, a bad situation.
So again, man, for all the views view viewers out there,
listening watching this. It's like yeah, you know, work
with a coach but also, you know, level up your research, right?
Level up, your skills on what you're putting on your body.
See how your training, you know, what you're putting in your mind
and you know, make the best decisions that's going to be
optimal for you. Right?
Let's the same entire people you have with their doctor to, they
just expect their doctor to have their best interest in mind.
But in reality. No one's going to care as much
about your health as you are ideally so really, you know,
putting forth the legwork and doing the research diving into
it, you know, taking some initiative and accepting your
own responsibility for your own health is going to be in
everybody's best interest. So I think as it, you know, as a
demographic bodybuilders are often times, the guinea pigs,
like bodybuilders are why there is so much scientific research
around anabolic steroids. For instance because body
butters were some of the first people to roast our testing this
out themselves. Not so much as being natural
body butters, but we do extreme things to deliver extreme
results from like dieting and compositional standpoint.
And it's been interesting to send me.
The keto bubble has come and gone.
That probably peaked in 2000 17 and 18, but I've always said And
I think there's going to be a lag effect with keto within, you
know, bodybuilding circles because body butters are very,
very stubborn and ignorant. They just like they like doing
the things that they've always been told to do and I've always
done. So it's cool to see other body
builders such as yourself looking towards a ketogenic or
higher fat, lower carb approach in seeing awesome success with
it. Absolutely man.
And the thing is Robert is like before I was applying like these
principles right I'd get I mean, levels of body fat.
And dude, I would be always freezing, cold, right?
I'll be freezing, cold. My joints would be a key.
Like, I don't have the the sex drive like, man.
That's, that's open. Everyone knows that, like, your
sex drive kind of Tanks, right? If your hormone imbalance is
throwing me off wax and that's why you have those issues and
it's crazy Malik since I've been on this this new like I call it
metabolic flexibility. We talked about my podcast meta
Flex for sure, right? I feel like Now that I'm so
metabolically flexible, man. Like I don't have those issues I
used to have before and I'm walking around now like single
digit body fat, you know what I mean?
Without even really trying. So I believe that we we've
cracked the code man and the more we can share this new
approach. It's going to be less suffering
from from athletes, you know, less suffering by our clients.
And I feel like we got to change the whole body building industry
as a whole because I'm seeing too many people, jeopardizing
their health just too. Optimal Aesthetics, right?
And in some of these protocols that are being followed today,
just have been completely debunked by science by research
empirical evidence and I feel like coaches they got to do the
research man. They got a raise their awareness
and give the best plan to optimize not only their, you
know, clients Health but their hormonal, you know, Health as
well got Health brain health. Like the body should be optimal
when it looks optimal, right? So Hopefully again, man, we can
keep provoking people to really think really do their research
and make informed decisions. That is certainly the go man.
What I wanted to kind of dive into natural bodybuilding
specific. Like, why do you do natural
bodybuilding? I feel like there's a lot of
people out there that don't even know that natural bodybuilding
is a thing that exists because they just see the body butters
that are walking around, you know, shredded at 300-plus
pounds on the mr. Olympia stage and I just assume
it's all bodybuilders. I'm certainly not one of those
body butters. I'm walking around 175 pounds
right now. I'm not that shredded.
But for you like, what is natural bodybuilding for you?
And why do you do it, man? It's just, my cousin used to
take steroids. Right?
And I was like, exposed to steroids at a young age where,
like seventh grade, you seventh grade, and I'm a lifetime
drug-free bodybuilder, right? 7th grade, man.
This dude was Jack third and seventh grade, bro.
This guy had let me look like Arnold.
Ashwin eger in Middle School, 7th, grade.
And he was like, I was like, bro.
How do you look like this? Things?
Like, man? I take this this, this but you
know what? I didn't want.
Like, the side effects that he had that he was openly sharing
with me. I'm like, I don't know if I want
that just to look like that. You know I'm saying.
So I've always been working out man.
Since about six seventh grade, like I've Loved training, but I
never really fell into the Trap of wanting to get too big, you
know, really quick, right? My cousin.
Cousin also older cousin and God Rest his soul, rest in peace.
He was also taken steroids and he's playing college football.
What Washington State University man, and he was on steroids, use
on gear. He was he was big as heck.
But again, like I saw his side effects, right?
That he had. And if he got off a cycle, like
his body would kind of almost shrink man, like, you know, back
down to like looking normal, right?
And then he was always dependent on having to take something in
order to get that look. And attain that looked at that
he has. And what I found out was, yeah,
these guys are taking performance-enhancing drugs, but
they, you know, they weren't that much more stronger than I
was right. And they weren't like outpacing
me on a workout. So I was like, I don't really
need that to be athletic and you know to I wanted to just say
natural man. So that's why I chose not to
because I got exposed to what it was early and it was the side
effects to be frankly with you that iced tea.
Clear of all the Peds. Well, there's such a mind game
that goes with it, man. Like there was this one guy that
I worked out with at a Gold's Gym in Washington state?
When I lived up there and he was kind of like the guy that was
always on the gear at the gym. Yeah, but whenever he was off
the cycle, like he was just like suicidal depressed man.
Like I don't know if it was because of his lack of
self-esteem and his self-image or or just all hormonal
fluctuations, or you know, brain chemicals.
I don't really know. What causes all that because I
don't really know that industry that much.
But I mean just to see the distraught in his face when he
wasn't on cycle. I mean, like I can't imagine
having to go through those kind of highs and lows and but when
he was, when he was on stuff, I mean he was freaking on top of
the world. Like he was happy-go-lucky.
He was smiling all the time, just a super comedic.
Awesome guy to be around and then he would go from that to
like suicidal and was just a constant fluctuation and I just
I didn't want that type of irregularity.
Absolutely. I mean, it's kind of, all of it,
all of the above Robert, but the most critical thing man is, is,
it's a hormonal imbalance, right?
So, if you think about all the anabolic steroids, right?
And I also, I want to talk about, like, animalism versus
catabolism, but we'll get to that in a second.
So I believe that because like, bodybuilders are always trying
to be anabolic, always trying to grow.
We're and they're, you know, they're taking extra Venus
hormones, right? Growth hormone insulin, you
know, all those other drugs, like it's just put more hormones
in your body. But since we got to go to
homeostasis, something has to give, right.
So if you're pumping yourself up with all the growth hormone, the
insulin and all that, your insulin, you know, it kind of
just messes up. All the other accounts are
regulatory hormones in your body.
But the thing too is like, you know, in the bodybuilding
industry. I mean, it's not a matter of say
this PC van in the PC way. Now, I'm just gonna be open.
Okay. It's not a surprise that a lot
of a lot of Builders have Eating Disorders, right?
Body dysmorphia and all that but then it's I think it's comes
down to food number one. But also it's the extra Venus
hormones that you know, a lot of the non-natural guys are using
and it's just messing up our hormone imbalance, which is
messing up kind of our brain. Health is blocking neurological
Pathways to our brain and our like, our dopamine reward
center, right? That's that's one thing.
I want to talk about as well. But if our neurological pathways
are blocked by by Foods, That are addictive such as, you know,
processed Sugar Sugar, you know, oils fats, preservative salt.
Our body can't even differentiate ingesting those
substances with drugs. Tobacco alcohol cocaine drugs,
right? So, it's like, so now you're
kind of mounting like all the food.
So it's like, hey, what's the eating number?
One? Number two?
It's like, what kind of drugs is taking?
So it's almost like he's ingesting a lot of these just
addictive substances and It's doing to our neural at all.
Neurological pathway. It's blocking like our cognitive
function or decision-making impacts.
Your mood makes you depressed, you know, gives you just
negative thoughts all the way to the point of having suicidal
thoughts. I mean, been there, done that,
bro, like, that was kind of my lowest point which forced me to
really change my Approach on diet and lifestyle and I truly
believe that. That's it's what it is.
That's what it is man. It's a hormonal imbalance right?
With a drug utilization and Lee the wrong food selection, I
mean, if you think about bodybuilders, right?
They're used to eating 3 4 5, 6 up to eight up to 10 times per
day. So you couple the fact with, if
they're selecting the wrong Foods, man.
Not only are they eating too much, but eating too frequently
of the wrong Foods, the wrong quality.
So that's that's what I truly believe based on the empirical
evidence in kind of science and research that I've just stumbled
upon, you know, as of late, that makes sense, man.
And like It breaks my heart to see so many people pushed into
this, you know, sport where they are taking and promoting
performance-enhancing drugs with Without Really.
Any reason for it. Long term.
I mean, they're like, the people that quick disclaimer here.
I am a natural athlete, but I don't, you know, I don't have
this kind of some nature towards people that do take steroids.
I mean, to each their own, do whatever you want to do.
It's your life your body, but I see so many, you know, first
time, competitors, amateur competitors that are not Not
looking to make a living and support their family with the
sport of bodybuilding, you know, pushed towards using
performance-enhancing drugs from their coaches.
And that to me, just makes no sense.
Like if you're competing on the mr.
Olympia stage and that is literally how you put food on
the table and you got the best doctors in your corner, and, you
know, all the ins and outs of the chemicals and what they're
going to have the long-term implications.
That's one thing. But if you're an amateur coming
in the sport, doing your first or second or third show, and
you're doing this to get like a twenty dollar plastic trophy at
the end of it. And You know, like you're just
doing this to prove to yourself that you can, and your coach is
pushing you to using all these drugs that are going to have
serious hormonal implications. Like that means just playing
with fire and it's not, it's not good.
There's no reason for it. Absolutely man.
I think it comes down to just misinformation.
That's what it is. Right.
So if you think about that coach, they probably had a coach
before them. That was promoting the same
protocol and a lot of people just fall into the Trap of not
asking enough questions. Not doing enough research.
Search and that really informing themselves to make the right
decision. So it's like if you're
misinformed you're going to make the wrong decision and once you
become a coach that really breaks my heart as well, man, to
the point where it's quite dangerous as well.
Right, but I'm I'm kind of I hate seeing people fall into the
Trap man and like you said, right?
If you got to do that to put, you know, food on the table by
all means, but if you're just getting into it, like man, give
yourself a chance to like grow. Naturally our do it naturally
first understand your body. And if you feel like you truly
need it and it's almost like a last resort, right?
If there's some kind of medical condition where you do need some
kind of extra Venus thing, but even doctors, that prescribe it
meant, I feel are they're misinformed as well, and they're
not doing their research, right? Yeah.
So it's, you got to do research, man.
So it's kind of awesome because the the community that I've been
flocking to, man, all the gray and a lot of the same.
I'm principles, right? Lower carb diet, you know,
really controlling our hormones. Specially insulin, right?
But also, you know, there's like Ultra marathoners and Ultra
athletes that I follow like Mark Sisson, right?
The founder of Primal kitchen that dude is like 57 and he's
jacked naturally, right? But he's mastered the art of
like the lower carb diet, you know, moderate protein, High
great fats, right? And that's that's kind of like
Man, that's that's the recipe right there.
Those are a couple of recipes for Success.
Right? And then a couple that in with
some intermittent fasting, you know, getting rid of all the
unprocessed stuff and that's that's like the planner there
Robert. Yeah.
Well, I know what I did like the ketogenic diet can you know in
tandem with intermittent fasting and just simply focusing on
quality wholesome, single ingredient foods and resistance
training. I mean like that's like the
trifecta right there for Fountain of Youth.
I mean you get those things dialed in And there's no reason
you can't make this a healthy lifestyle.
In the cool thing about natural bodybuilding and just eating
healthy in general is that you get better and better and better
like body building is an old man's sport.
I mean you see like these professional NBA players like
they're all in their twenties like you see professional
bodybuilders and they're all in there, you know, 30s and 40s
like like Dexter Jackson. He was competing in Olympia
stage at like, 50 years old, which is crazy, you know, but
like you look at this like he's obviously not a natural body
butter, but if you're doing natural bodybuilding and you're
eating the right, Food and your resistance training, like
there's no reason you can't keep getting better and better and
better well into your later years.
I mean, case in point, right? Our good friend, Benny Mobley.
He's in his 50s, man. He looks amazing natural.
Oh bodybuilder, you know in his 50s and still kicking the young
guys as B, you know what I mean? So it's like if you do it the
right way, man, this sport can be sustainable.
They can be healthy and you can keep getting better year after
year after year, right? And it's like, especially as you
home. Nin on your nutrition, your
training, your cardio. It becomes just a complete
lifestyle where it becomes just part of everyday.
We're become simple and easy. And everyone just, they got to
find that Groove. But in order to find that
Groove, man, you need to have the right plan.
And if you need an accountability and guidance from
a coach like, you know, people like you and I man, they need
someone, navigating them through to kind of, like, clear things
up, right? Or just to make sure there's
certain about decisions. They're making I feel like
having the right plan having the right coach and make it a
lifestyle. You know, that's those are all
recipes ingredients to be successful and have a really
long successful bodybuilding career, man, kind of percent.
I want to talk to you a little bit about disordered eating
because you and I both have struggled with that and I think,
you know, if we're being honest, like you said most natural.
Most bodybuilders probably do struggle with that, both males.
And females. I've been open with that on my
channel and I feel like like what?
Do you think the main catalyst for that is, do you think it's
more? So, a result of just simply
being in a very depleted, low cal state for quite some time,
or is it more? So a matter of just eating, you
know, terrible food because I think I mean correct me if I'm
wrong here. I love to get your opinion.
But I feel like the reigning champ from like a dieting
standpoint within natural bodybuilding circles is probably
flexible dieting. Would you agree?
Yes, it is the reigning champ. However, it is not the most
optimal for health and overall performance.
So, I mean, that's, I follow flexible dieting for a long
time. Right?
My recipe, we used to be flexible dieting and vegan.
Right? Did that for a long time?
So I've been there done that guys.
I've counted all the macros, you could, you know what?
I mean? I've done all the MyFitnessPal
Journeys journal entries. That you could I met can go back
to when I first started competing, like I have journals.
My Fitness Pal, and there's pros and cons to using my fitness
pal. So I'm not like totally, you
know, negating it. However, however, what I do want
to impress upon you is like the reason that we get into
disorders, right? And again, this is off research
and just like a lot of doctors that I'm working with in this
meta, Flex Community. Its hormonal balance.
Number one, number two. It's the ultra-processed highly
palatable foods that are that are just available.
Isabel that are abundant that are prevalent right number for.
It's just because of those foods that are so processed.
They're putting like Polly addictive substances, what I
mean by Polly, addictive is they're not just putting sugar
in there. They're putting ultra-processed
flower right there, putting ultra-processed oil, the putting
preservatives that putting all these chemicals that the food
industry knows that's addictive. Because again going back to the
dopamine reward center, right? So, Let's say we eat a bag of
chips bag of cookies. Right?
And we start eating those, you know, and next thing, you know,
reading the whole damn bag, right?
We're getting eating the whole damn box.
The reason is because it's not even suppressing our it's
messing up, our insulin levels, right?
So our insulin, our blood sugar goes up number one, but our
insulin level is also going up. And, you know, when your insulin
levels are elevated, man, that just starts messing up with your
hormonal functions, or Cellular functions and also back to kind
of the neurological Pathways like it starts getting blocked
because you want so much more of that palatable food to the point
where you need more in order to get that reward from your
dopamine Reward Center. So it's just kind of a vicious
cycle because the fact that there's no fiber in those
processed foods, right? It won't fill you up.
I mean, you eat a whole box of cereal or chips and not get
full. So you end up, just just eating
and eating and it's so addictive that you I stopped eating right
and to the point where your tolerance gets built, so high
man, for those processed foods and the junk food.
That's that's how addictions happened.
Right? Yes.
That's that's all it is, man. It starts with hormonal.
And then, you know, it starts messing with your psychological
system, neurological system. And the next thing, you know,
dude, you have an addiction and you don't even know it.
It's right in front of you with all these foods that are
available to us. And the reason, By the order,
the disorder get started is because, you know, a lot of body
builders when they're competing prepping your in a restrictive.
Diet. Number one, right?
You can't eat this, can't eat that.
Number two, you're in a Ultra like caloric deficit.
So, I mean, just just even being in a caloric deficit alone, man.
That's already a problem in itself.
Right? But I've been there, I've done
that, right? It's like hey, as long as your
Macros fit, your calories will be in a deficit and you're going
to lose body fat. You're going to lose weight and
get shredded. Yeah, again, that plan does it
works time to time but there's a certain point where your body
comes back to homeostasis. So let's say my BMR, my resting
metabolism, right? Let's 2000 calories or even
3,000 calories. Okay.
So the moment I cut down 500 calories.
And the reason why I say 500 is because there's the thought
process of a to lose one pound of body fat per week.
You got to lose 3,500 calories over the week right to lose one
pound of body fat. So then If you do, 500 calories
a day deficit, over the course of the week, you should lose one
pound of body fat. That only works to a certain
point. So once your body gets gets
caught up back down to homeostasis, homeostasis is like
a seesaw, right? Your body always bounces out.
So even though you cut your calories down at 2500, your
metabolisms only burning 2500 and that's why when a macro
coach I've done this myself. It's like a you plateaued.
Let's decrease your calories even more by another 250 or
another 500 and then the Thing happens, you lose a little bit
of body fat, right? And then your body catches up,
homeostasis, you plateau, then you do another reduction.
I see that time and time again, man, from macro coaches and it's
a recipe for disaster, right? Because your body always equals
out and then you can't keep cutting.
You can't keep restricting calories all the way down to
zero or else you'll have no energy, especially if you're
eating the wrong diet, you know, the wrong diet usually is the
flexible diet, you know, that's high in protein.
In high in carbs, low in fat. That's another.
Guess just all these recipes for disaster.
And then there's also coaches, where, you know, they get their
client to a point where they plateaued so much.
They don't want to cut any more calories.
So they are, they start adding more cardio right?
Next thing, you know, clients are eating, 1000 calories, and
doing two hours of cardio and sometimes even more.
Obviously, I've seen some really bad things out there.
Yeah, wait till you see how like this?
This whole situation is just all, like, just Confused, right.
The whole industry is confusing and not enough of the right
sources of knowledge are being shared.
So that's why I'm so passionate about this drama is because it's
time for a wake-up call, man across the industry.
And we got to start promoting and practicing the right methods
that are focus on health and hormonal control and hormonal
balance. That's how we get the whole Mind
Body Spirit, alignment going. Yeah.
No, I totally agree, man. Like I'll manipulate calories,
all manipulate macros. I'm doing a competition prep,
even following a ketogenic diet. I mean, I feel like you need to
be like you're going to optimize fat burning.
If in a caloric deficit, you're going to optimize muscle
building if in a caloric Surplus, but the composition of
those macros and calories is incredibly important.
And I feel like in the, like I don't want to, I don't want to
paint the flexible dining. If It Fits your Macros Community
as a whole into the corner, but I think in large part, they
glorify being able to eat like drop, they glorified Minnie.
Oh, dear. Food and look good naked.
Like that's not all of them do that.
I mean, there's certainly a lot of people that eat very healthy.
Following a flexible dining approach and you know to them
this is not directed towards them, but it's it's it's sexy to
post your six pack, abs with a big plate full of doughnuts in
front of you and say, hey, look at me.
I'm flexible dying and I'm eating whatever I want.
I look like this and that is just the wrong messaging through
and through. And I feel like the same is true
in in kind of the Opposites space with with He do.
Because there's, there's certainly a group of, you know,
dirty keto, dieters that eat terrible food.
That is technically Quito from a macro standpoint, but it's
certainly not what should be optimized.
However, I feel like what is quote, unquote sexy within the
keto space, you know, all in all is trying to return to more of
a. You know, what, we used to eat
from A Primitive standpoint, you know, wholesome single
ingredient Foods, quality meets quality fats, quality greens
like that is the general narrative with the ketogenic
diet in my opinion. My perspective, where's the
general, you know, talk and narrative within the flexible
that If It Fits your Macros Community, is being able to eat
junk food and look good. And to me, I feel like that's
just the wrong message through and through.
Yeah, I mean, bro, been there done that right.
I was one of those guys and it's just it's it's again, it's
misinformation and it's it's adding to the propaganda of
like, hey, you know, eat these junk foods and stay stay lean.
Stay flexible As Long As It, Fits your Macros, whatever, but
you can't tell That to the general public, right?
The general public is they're not doing all the cardio.
That bodybuilders you are doing right there.
Not doing all the weight training that body builders that
are prepping are doing. So it's like it's so misleading
man, and I'm guilty of it. Right?
I'm guilty guilty, as charged. I used to do that and it just,
it didn't promote Health. It's like, why are we like
glorifying? Junk Foods, you know I'm saying?
And yeah, again, it goes back to you may have the Aesthetics, but
are you healthy from the inside? Our yourself healthy is your
hormones, are your hormones healthy is their gut healthy.
It's a brain healthy. I mean, the the guys that are
case in point me. I supposed that stuff.
Not even thinking about health, dude is just like a I eat junk
food. I eat this ice cream right here.
He's this pizza right here and look how I look like.
Yeah, it was crazy. I used to be crazy.
Right? So I hate calling it out, but
I've been there done that so I can call myself.
I'm calling myself out. You know I'm saying.
Yeah, and I feel like, you know, at the end of day.
The the whole messaging needs to change and a lot of people and
I've made this argument that the best that is the one that is
most sustainable for you. And that's that's true.
I believe that but I think that sentence needs to be completed.
It's not just simply the best. Is the one that needs to be the
most sustainable for you, but it's the best.
That's the one that's the most suitable for you and also
contributes to your overall health and well-being.
And that's not going to come in the form of ultra highly
processed sugars and junk food. And, you know, no thought
towards the sourcing of those ingredients.
Absolutely, and I love how we're talking about this, man, because
I feel like when there is a movement, right?
That move, may it gets it gets money tires, or it gets
attempted to be monetized. What I mean by that is like like
he do, right? Kido was sexy.
What? Like the height of Quito.
What would you say? What year?
Robert 2018, I would think. 2018?
Right. Was one of the most Google diets
on Google right kiddos. I think number one.
Paleo, and then intermittent fasting, those were the top.
Three Google diets on the internet, back in 20 2018 2019.
But yeah, once once the industry like sees that like, oh, there's
this whole keto Revolution paleo Revolution, they start trying to
monetize it and guess what, how they monetize by selling us
processed crap that says keto, friendly paleo friendly.
You know what I mean? Atkins friendly, it's crazy to
me. And that's, that's how like a
movement kind of gets slow down, or squash is because miss that,
that starts It's misinformation, right?
That's starts kind of this propagation of processed foods
that we shouldn't, you know, go eat.
But it's like, if people can stick to the principles of like
either keto, paleo cut out the process stuff.
Those diets will work. You know I'm saying.
Yeah, but good, common denominator.
There is cutting out the process stuff.
So whether you are eating kind of closer to the Paleolithic
diet, whether you are on the keto, whether you are a vegan
vegetarian, whatever man, as long as, Cut out the process
crap and sugars, dude. It's going to work for you.
Right? And that's that's how we sustain
that type of diet is because we get rid of all the addictive
stuff in the form of sugar processed oils preservatives and
our mind stay clean and we can make the right decisions and you
know, give our hormones, the balance and health that it needs
to just eat regular natural foods.
And so How likely that both have?
I say that and both of us have our own product line like you've
got a supplement line, technically all of your A are
processed. Mikey do bricks are all
processes technically everything that has any any human touch to
it at all is technically processed, but I think both
yours and my products are high quality products with minimal
processing and I feel like you know the at the end of the day
people should always prioritize single ingredient wholesome
natural quality sourced foods, and then whatever minimal
process stuff you add to that to make it more sustainable for you
great, but it should never be coming from this hyper
palatable. Source that you cannot moderate
at all. Absolutely.
And man, first of all, congratulations on keto break
for the they're delicious, you know, by understanding the
science. I know why you put it together,
right? And again, we don't want to be
too extreme where we say. Hey be 100% no processed foods
because hey life is still life, you know, some days, we need
that convenience, you know, we're on the run and we got to
eat, you know, saying. So the fact that At your kind of
bringing something to the market that you know can fill that void
when it's when you got that Gap right?
Of food, and that's why I came out with my protein as well as
these are minimally processed products.
But based on the research, right?
I'm going to go back to science again.
Like the why I love the keto brick is it doesn't spike your
blood sugar as high as like the ones that if there were an on
keto product, right? So again, blood sugar leads to
lower insulin rise, and that's one of the most critical
hormones to Health, right. So kudos to you, mikito break is
freaking amazing. I'm starting to take it now
like, you know, when I need kind of that convenience, but I'll
also love it as a dessert, bro. I love it as a dessert and I
love it as one of the things that I ate to break my fast,
because it doesn't Spike my insulin too high, right?
And same thing with my vegan protein.
The reason why I do vegan protein versus whey protein, is
it doesn't spike. Your insulin is high, the amino
acid profiles. That's what spikes your Your
insulin level high. So, my vegan protein doesn't
have as much carbs. So the blood sugar is as high,
but protein also spikes your insulin, but the fact that it's
plant-based. It doesn't spike your insulin,
as as high as a way based product.
Do you test your blood sugar quite a bit?
Actually, I don't man, and this is kind of one of my New Year's
resolutions is to like, you know, understand my blood work.
And I mean, gosh, broke the last time we talked, I didn't know
what to CGM was, you know what I mean?
It's like now I know all these terms and I know more about my
body now inside and outside, right?
Like even have a body scanner right here.
I know how to read the thing. Now, right?
I know what excess proteins means, you know, like I know by
having minerals in your body needs, you know, I know what's
counted as lean body mass, right?
It's just it's Evolution and us like really educating ourselves
men to be our best. So then we can be healthy.
We could perform well and keep a dope physique man.
Year-round, so, Dude, I'm ecstatic men because of just
this newfound knowledge and me applying it myself.
It's giving me this new found energy.
I mean bro, whatever you say to me tired before been since we've
recently connected like my energy level, just stays high do
throughout the day and people are like, what are you taking?
I'm like man. I'm taking the pill of food.
You know what? I mean?
It's actually, I was actually on a phone call this morning with a
buddy of mine who I haven't spoken with in a while, and I'm
talking about Energy and how so many people go through life with
this, like, dull drab Outlook, because they don't like their in
careers. They don't like, they're on the
rocks of relationships. Their health is in the tank.
I mean, it's just nothing's good.
Nothing's optimized. And for me, I noticed this
massive spike in energy once I figured my died out and fix
them, adopted a wolf, or medicated drink diet, and also,
once I started seeing some momentum with the business and
was just pouring myself. Elf into something that I was
incredibly passionate about day in and day out.
Those two things were the Catalyst that gave me like this,
like this level of energy that I can only describe as, like, some
type of euphoric high, but we would, I haven't talked to you
much Beyond these these past few conversations since, you know,
back 2017, but I can sense that energy that you're exuding and
like like that, right? That right there alone is enough
evidence for me to feel confident that whatever you're
doing is good for you. So keep doing it.
Yeah. I mean that's Right.
Going back to the science row. So we get mental Clarity.
When we're not eating and we're eating a low carb diet, you know
what I mean? So, because our insulin level is
low, man. It just opens up the just the
brain functions. Like, your mental Clarity.
Enhances, like right now been fasting long enough where I'm in
ketosis right now as we speak, right?
And because my carbohydrate intake is so low, like, even if
I do, ingest carbs in that kicking my fasting, I can get
back into ketosis, but then 12 the An hour's, right?
So that's that's why when people see me like my energy levels
rise throughout the day. It's because I'm just going in
full keto. I'm using all kind of Quito
ketones to feel my brain and everybody's scared of like hey
when you're fasting that long, like don't you get tired?
Like aren't you gonna lose muscle mass?
Aren't you starving? Aren't you hungry?
It's the opposite. It's opposite of that man.
And gosh do we could go a whole like bunny trail, Robert on,
kind of the benefits, man, like every stage of fasting, you
know, like, Get 12 hours, 16, 18, 24, 48, you know, 72 the
longest I've ever gone is five and a half and I don't think
five-and-a-half like five and half days.
I don't think that's optimal from like a muscle building
standpoint. However, like my mental
cognition at a five-day fast is like freaking on cloud, nine
man, like my memory recall, my word play.
I mean, everything is just much much higher and much, much more
heightened, rather. And that's that's the that's the
thing, right? I'm talking fast.
Sir, but yet every word is being articulated, very clearly, and
when you have mental fog, man, you don't have that same
Clarity, you know, you don't have that same intellectual
capacity and, you know, I've just launched like a few
businesses as of late, right? So, I'm doing a lot of reading
doing a lot of research. And what I'm finding out, man,
is just, just like my intellectual mental capacity, so
clear. I can like just digest
information, I can regurgitate it.
But then also with scary like scary good is, I can articulate
it back to anybody. So it's like now I'm looking at
clinical studies and like medical research, some like just
consuming the hell out of it. I can spit it back out and even
explain it in a more, layman's term where it makes sense.
To the person. I'm trying to talk to about.
So I love that euphoric feeling of the longer fast, but in order
to maximize that growth hormone, right?
I want to touch on that for a little bit.
We can Elevate our growth hormones naturally and that
starts like at like 36 hours, 48 hours of fasting.
And sometimes I get it just things like how to optimize your
body is even sometimes it starts at 24 hours then.
So if you ever, I'm going to challenge everyone.
Listening to us watching us once.
Once he gets killed, don't do this right away.
If you haven't been fasting or eating, you know, unprocessed
Foods, right? And excuse me, like clean Foods.
Don't try this right away. But if once you get to a point
where you're skipping breakfast, you know, skipping lunch and try
skipping dinner, you know, do a 24-hour fast and then do a
workout in a fasted state. See how you feel.
That's number one and see how you feel.
But number two, because you've been fasting that long, your
natural adrenaline levels go up. So you get Natural Energy, like
you don't need caffeine. You don't need a pre-workout to
get you going right? And then after 48 Hours, men,
your HGH levels are naturally just elevated.
So imagine you go on a 2-day fast.
You have a killer workout. And then once you do finally
eat, what's, that's going to, that's what that does to your
body. Really, just go in and full like
metabolism. You're going to building.
Airing because one of our anabolic mode, man, we're just,
you know, we're breaking down and like even when working out
we're breaking down or tissue other way, but what if a Sandbox
building up catabolic turned down?
But man, I barely like it's I'm more like I love catabolic now.
Where does the anabolic actually I love them both.
You just got to know how to manipulate the 20.
That's why. My first instinct is always to
say catabolism. Now in the fastings weird main
like it's cool because there's like from a from a bodybuilding
background like you and I both man.
We were always just told, you know, like if you don't have
your meal within an hour of that muscle protein synthesis of
training that that workout was for not, you know, is wasted
and, you know, I've gone like I said, Five and a half days,
having not eaten anything train that whole time, hit PR's during
that five and a half day window. And not that I'm recommending
that for optimizing bodybuilding by any means, but it's just cool
to do things that you previously thought freaking impossible.
And then excelling at, it just really opens your mind to a
whole world of possibilities that you didn't ever think would
be imaginable. Yeah.
Absolutely, man. And that's the thing.
Right? So, like, some people see me at
the gym after like, a 2448 hour fast and I'm working out.
And it's like, dude, you're killing the weights.
And that pump is insane. So it's like again, man, the
more people do the research, the more people do it themselves.
They'll really believe what you and I are talking about and once
you feel it, you'll believe it. But you got to go through the
experience. And like you said, man, we don't
recommend like these prolong fast like that often, maybe once
a month every other month, once a quarter, but at least man,
like, even just getting a one-day fast right?
Whether it's like a 20 hour fast and having I mean with day,
maybe once a week, like the effects that you get from that
one prolonged or intermittent fasting day, will last you five
even up to 10 days, the benefits that you're getting from that
from the kind of the hormonal, reset a top veggies, like
another like subject that we could talk for hours on and at
apogee, is like what it means in Greek is your body's eating
itself, right? So it means your old cells and
your mitochondria, because even go to my table for G, where
you're getting new, mitochondria to power, the Cells, right?
So it's almost like a way to clean out your oil if you will
by doing at least a 18 20 hour fast once a week.
I mean, that's how hard is that meant to kind of help reset your
body and optimize, you know, cellular repair and
Rejuvenation, right? Yeah, it gives you more
perspective to, man, like that. Like I feel like, the my level
of productivity in life is heightened exponentially.
When I'm not constantly thinking about food and most people,
especially if they're not fat. Captain are always thinking
about food, they have breakfast. They have snacks.
They have lunch. They have another snack and they
have dinner, didn't have snack before bed.
They're constantly eating and then thinking about their next
meal and their level of productivity from like a career
standpoint from a relational standpoint.
Like if you're just constantly fixating on food.
What else is there in time form left?
Like when you remove that and you have this increased sense
of, you know, mental capacity because that bandwidth is not
getting sucked up by what your next meal is going to be your
level of productivity. Oops, drastically, absolutely,
man, because I feel like there's a common trait, man with a lot
of like, high performers that you and I right.
It's because our mind is so sharp, man, and we can just were
so productive because we're free and clear, like those
addictions. And like the pathways that are,
you know, the things that are blocking our mental Pathways.
There's a guru that I listen to Indian Guru from India.
He gets flown to everywhere, like, Yale Harvard, he's done
TED talks. And what do you say?
Is a lot of us are spending most of our lives in maintenance
mode. What he means by that is, we're
constantly eating to maintain and we're sleep.
We're having to sleep a lot longer just to maintain, right?
So it's like you're spending half of your waking day half of
your waking or half of your life, you know, sleeping or
eating. So it's like we got to start
breaking those Habits Like It's you got it.
You have to get adequate sleep, do number one.
But if we're constantly thinking about food and always like
preparing. And food and eating food and
like thinking about that, it just it messes up with your
productivity man. But again, like look at the
foods that are available though, right?
So if someone can't cook multiple times a day, what are
they resorting to for snacks? Probably something processed or
probably something that will raise their insulin level, you
know, that will throw off their hormonal balance, right?
But yeah, maybe I think it's that's a common trait that high
performers have is like, we're not constantly.
Thinking about food bogged down by my food, like meal prepping.
That kind of stuff like we're liberated from that.
Yeah. I mean, I two meals a day and if
I'm a cal are lower like in a prep, I typically do one meal a
day and it's weird because you know, most bodybuilders.
Do these super high volume Foods.
Lots of, you know, Miracle, Ryan's lots of big salad,
something with low calorie density but high volume foods,
and I found that to be less satiating than simply one, you
know. Nutrient dense meal a day
because my fasting window was improved and then the absorption
of those nutrients in that more nutrient dense, meal was
heightened, everything was better and then I wasn't
constantly thinking about food throughout the day because it
was like a one-and-done kind of deal and my productivity
improved on my mental Clarity site and everything was better.
But that is so far removed from what anybody but recommends, you
know, one single meal a day like that, that's unheard of in the
bodybuilding Community, but I found that to be the best.
For me, it sounds so anti. It is what we're saying.
Robert. It's very anti the industry,
right? Like back to the eating four to
eight times a day man. Like yeah, we got breakfast
lunch dinner. We got mid-morning, snack
afternoon, snack, pre-workout post-workout, and then you get
like a bedtime snack, Ryan, some guys even wake up in the middle
of night to you both. I didn't set my alarm for
midnight every night. I don't one of those 300 Cal
bars, been there, done that, right?
So it's not like we're dogging kind of industry like we're you
and I've been I've been there done that, so that's always go
back to the science. Right?
Because my mission is to educate people on why these things that
are experiencing why they're feeling that way, why they're
looking that way. So somebody that's eating four
to eight times a day. So imagine my arm is a gate,
right? When we're eating a lot of foods
throughout the day, our blood sugar raises or insulin level
raises at the same time, right? So for eating four to eight
times a day for our insulin level stays elevated throughout
the day, we will never give it enough a It's for our insulin
level to come back. So, if this is a gate, right?
And this is a body fat right here behind the gate, if your
insulin level stays High elevated throughout the day,
your body can never use this body fat for energy.
So the name of the game, that's why you.
And I only eat one or two meals a day.
Sometimes is we want to get our insulin level low.
So our bodies can be able to access this body fat for energy.
I mean we have body fat for a reason, right?
It's just store energy when we need it.
When we're not eating but you cannot Only access that body fat
when the gate is open. How do we open the gate by
lowering our insulin levels as much as we can?
So that's that's kind of a the magic trick man.
If someone can learn a way of nutrition and timing their
nutrition, right? And getting the right, you know,
Foods in their body. You can manipulate that most
critical hormone for health Mana which is which is insulin,
right? We got to become good at fat
burning, right? But also for do in just a little
bit of Like it won't throw off our body because we're just
going to metabolize so quick because we were we become meta
Flex metabolic flexible. So, I think there's a lot of
there's a lot of debate right now and then dining circles
around is the carbohydrate insulin model of obesity, the
key or is it more so the energy balance calories in calories
out? And I've always said, why does
it have to be one of the other? Like take all those into
consideration optimized for each?
One have a diet. That is very low in processed.
Girls that are going to cause, you know, your regular insulin
levels eat at a appropriate, caloric intake, based off your
goals optimized for all of those factors and your performance and
everything will improve as well. Like, it doesn't have to be this
mutually exclusive or deal and that's why I say ich everything,
right? Because I'm like applying
principles of all these different paradigms, men all
into one and if you have that flexibility, but you can go back
and forth. You know, I'm saying, like
there's days where I do go full on keto, I have zero carbs at
all, and I'm just going Straight off of fats, little bit of
protein, you know, there's some days where I eat like a caveman
like a Paleo caveman where, you know, if I do got to eat some
kind of carbohydrate. I'm sticking to the non process,
you know, things that you're finding in nature, you know, so
it's like if we get too extreme and on one Paradigm of the other
that's when things really start, you know, getting difficult for
ourselves because if something in Life or the day throws at you
that is against or you don't have the the strategy or
principal to cope with that. That's when people Get in
trouble. And that's how these.
I feel like these disorders start happening is because you
don't have the right Tools in place given for that certain
situation to cope with it to handle it.
Yeah, totally Green Man. And I think, you know, it kind
of like that aspect of it definitely does full circle and
goes back to the same sustainability factor and I feel
like people just need to get excited about the right things
when it comes to finding a diet that is sustainable.
Like so many people look towards excitement in, you know, these,
these foods that offer. Nourishment whatsoever.
But when you're excited about being healthy for the Long Haul,
so that you're around to play with your grandkids.
You know, that, that's that. Yeah, great kid.
Great grandkids. That's what you need to be more
excited about when one that excitement exceeds that
temporary high from that pint of ice cream or Mega Doritos, then
you know, you're onto something exactly.
And the thing is that if you cleanse your body, right and
you're doing a lower carb diet, you're doing fasting.
And I even hate say thank the word fasting is even like kind
of weird to me now, right? It's just strategically timing,
you're eating that sounds way better than fasting, right being
strategic, about how you feel your body.
That sounds way better than fasting.
Yeah, because you know, you don't want to promote under
eating either because like people chronically under eat.
Exactly. And again, like someone will
take that without doing like the research and knowledge and
having the context and put themselves in a bad situation.
Next thing, you know, they're dogging on fasting, you know, I
mean for their doubting you Kito because they don't really
understand the full benefits or like how to really apply it to
themselves to keep their health, you know optimize right?
It's crazy man. It is it is ma'am.
He's here and talk all day long, but I want to be respectful of
your time. I know you got a whole bunch of
things in the pipeline. What are you excited about?
Like, you want, you want to share some of that?
Has it all under wraps right now, dude, I'm excited, man.
My people can find me on Instagram, just Flex the floor
exes. We got a supplement company Mana
made dot life, go check that out.
And I'm excited about the partnership that you and I are
about to Embark in man. Like, you know, brick is
awesome. Dude.
Like, I feel like we collectively have an awesome
audience together. So I'm excited about just making
more content, Robert, and sharing my story, my Evolution
and just just messaging things in a different way.
That's more approachable. I feel like sometimes when we
preach something to extreme and people just tune out and next
thing, you know, we can't help that person because we were too
extreme with our approach. So I think content is King, man,
and I'm, I got a bunch of things to plan to just drop more
content. I have my own mobile app.
Now that I'm coaching through. That's pretty exciting, nice.
And man. It's like look out, you know,
like, we're here to start this movement.
We're here to start this movement and get everyone
health. He and back to, like, habits
that that are effective. But at the same time,
sustainable and healthy, I'm going to keep moaning.
Help. Keep promoting Health, man.
I love it, man. Well, I mean, shoot, I'm here in
your corner, anytime. You need me.
I'd love to get you out here to the compound.
Don't work out with you grill, some steaks with you and and see
what kind of content we can Brew up, man.
Oh shit. Let me end up with food, man.
You know, me. I'm a foodie of it.
And this is this is why I like I'm always smiling all the time
again, man, like, since I Eating meat again, right?
I just been eating the most delicious foods.
Robert. Like I used to eat like a flank
steaks, you know, the lean like 97 0, you know, fat ground beef.
You know, what? Now?
I'm eating the healthiest, freaking fatty steaks, bro, but
I'm going to caveat that with get the highest quality, right?
Get the grass-fed inish. Grass-finished organic.
And bro. I'm eating like Tomahawk steaks
on the daily. This isn't just special
occasions. No more, right?
Like two, three times a week from eating ribeye, steaks, New
York, steaks, my favorite, our rib eyes, you know, excuse me,
like beef, ribs. Call before ribs oxtail and
coupled with like, vegetables, and like the right oils.
And right fat, man. It's game over, bro.
Now. I'm like, I got to share that
video where I'm cooking the Tomahawk Steak, like, in
grass-fed ghee. I'm melting the butter.
I'm basting the rib eye. You know, insane.
It's like that is so much more delicious than just grilling a
flank steak. I don't know.
Actually, it's pretty close. It's a pretty close battle
between that versus a rice cake and a Pop-Tart, you know, really
sure which one's gonna get the win here and I gotta say that
picture that I'm eating. I finished that big-ass Tomahawk
Steak in my abs were so deep still, bro, like back in the day
when I used to do the high carb high protein.
I just get so bloated. After I eat like a meal that
big, right? And my face would get all puffy.
And now there's when I eat like I just I stay lean and shredded
man, even after I have a huge meal.
Yeah, that's outing thing, man. Because, like, we talked a
little bit about calories and I obviously think calories a
matter, like calories are part of the equation, just like
anything else is. But I will say this, I could eat
intuitively with a carbohydrate mixed diet and I could eat
intuitively with a zero carbohydrate ketogenic.
And my composition and the way I feel and perform is
exponentially better on the ketogenic approach.
Eating ad, libitum. Whatever.
I feel like intuitively. That's what I find my bro.
I can attest to that, you know, that I can attest to that and
bro, like hate to do this man. Like every day, do I just wake
up just shredded every day, right?
And I'm eating more food than I have in the past.
And like, right now, since I'm not even close to competing
right now. I'm probably like two and a
half. Half three months out.
I'm not tracking calories. No macros, no portioning.
I mean so I kind of like we said earlier, right?
Why not do everything even even if you want to count calories
because you want to fine, tune it and I'll it in.
So as I get closer to the cop, I'll probably start tracking
again and see, like, if I manipulate certain things have
Ultra shredded, I can get, but I think that's kind of a steel
that you. And I have worked to write the
fact that we do it because we are doing it to fine-tune the
physique. You don't say, we need the extra
Edge and that's why we start tracking towards as we get
closer to competition. But now I can sustain like 67
percent body fat year round without even counting calories.
Macros. No portioning.
That's what I love about this new style.
Robert, you know, as long as you're keeping your fats, High
your carbs lower no processed foods, moderate protein.
You can keep a dope physique year-round and if you guys want
to check me out. Instagram, I'll look pretty
consistent throughout the year and when I'm competing, I really
dial it in and get Ultra shredded.
But, you know, I love being like almost two weeks ready for any
any kind of event, you know, whether it be a like, a show,
you know, Beach getaway photo shoot, you know what I mean?
Like, why not always be ready if it's simple, easy, sustainable,
and lastly healthy and also number five, you're eating
delicious foods, right? I'm gonna end with a dad joke.
Robert. Madame Curie, so people ask me.
Hey Flex, man. Don't you ever want a cheat meal
and my rebuttal to that is you know what I actually don't
write. I don't crave cheat meals.
But once you have the cheat code, bro, you're eating
delicious foods everyday. You don't need a cheat meal
because you got the cheat code. So boom.
I'm not dropping my dad joke right there to end with it.
Can grasp, by the way, with the baby coming.
I'm stoked for you guys, then. Hey, man, I really appreciate.
We're super excited. I'm super excited to share the
stage. We again, I'm probably going to
compete next year. Hopefully, you'll step on stage
again. It'll be awesome if you, and I
both stepping on stage and we're both following a ketogenic diet.
And we can both just, you know, wipe the floor with the other
competitors. And then teach them about what
the possibilities are. Hey, we're putting it out there.
We're going to make it happen, man.
We're going to make it happen. Here's my challenge to you.
Robert, jump on a non-natural stage with me, and let's show
those boys. What we can do, naturally on the
ketogenic diet. Lower carb diet of meta Flex
diet. Paleo s diet but I mean like we
we gotta wake people up bro. Both Nat natural and non-natural
and I'm just tripping, man. I think I've competed in PC
before. I'll do it again.
I ain't scared. Do it.
Do it, thinking about, who are these guys, but until then
brother. Until then keep doing what
you're doing. I'm keep in touch.
I mean truly man. You got my number.
If there's ever anything I can do.
Just let me know brother. Oh, yeah, man it likewise bro.
Likewise. All right.
Take care, bud. Alright, man.
Take care.