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Hello, ladies and gents Roberts 
like sceeto Savage.com. 

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Today I've got special guest 
Leroy Roland's online. 

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He is a natural body builder who
just finished a killer 

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competitive season. 
He won four shows that he did 

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just a few months back. 
So I want to dive in and talk to

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him about his prep, his reverse 
diet, what? 

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He's got going on there and 
honestly, just talk about the 

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sport of natural bodybuilding. 
He's incredibly passionate about

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natural bodybuilding. 
I'm passionate about natural 

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bodybuilding, so it's always 
good conversation. 

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You get to natural body butters 
together to just talk about the 

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sport in general. 
So thoroughly, For this 

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conversation. 
I've got no doubt that you will 

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take something from this. 
So that for their do is sit 

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back, relax. 
Enjoy the podcast with Leroy 

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Rowlands. 
And we are Lively row. 

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How are you man? 
I'm good brother. 

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Thanks for having me on you bet,
man. 

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I'm excited to chat with you. 
So we are recording this at six 

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o'clock Central Time. 
And I always do my podcast in 

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the afternoons. 
This is a little bit new for me.

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I wake up early but I don't 
normally talk this much this 

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early, so we'll see if I can 
keep my head on straight. 

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That said, when you normally 
train, like, I figured you'd be 

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a morning training times, have 
you already? 

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Rain today, you trained me at 
all. 

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So it's it's a little after 7:00
a.m. for me. 

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So I usually kind of get up and 
run around six and then, you 

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know, put around in the morning 
kind of get myself ready for the

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day and then I'm typically 
training, I trained at home. 

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So I'm typically training around
8:00. 

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So I got like a two-hour window 
of get myself together before I 

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actually get in the gym. 
I don't eat a whole lot in the 

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morning. 
I've, it's weird. 

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I used to be like, ravenously 
hungry. 

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In the morning. 
And then I kind of guessed as my

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body is adapted over time to 
like morning training and 

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usually eat a bit later in the 
evening. 

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A good amount of food so that 
kind of Tides me over for the 

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morning. 
So I don't have a whole lot in 

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the morning. 
So I kind of just get up, do a 

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little bit house stuff. 
Get myself ready for the day. 

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If I have client, like, 
immediate client check-ins, I 

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can usually get a little bit of 
client work done in the morning,

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but I try to just use the 
morning as time for me, you 

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know, walk the dog with my wife 
in the morning. 

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We just you know, we have a nice
little Trail around our place so

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it's kind of a couple hours to 
just be in the moment you know 

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total agreement. 
I try and wake up early and then

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start the date on my own terms 
proactively. 

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Instead of reactively. 
I feel like I just way more 

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productive if I do that and I'm 
right there with you as well, I 

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tried to train fast. 
If I'm training in the morning 

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or maybe not like fighter in the
afternoon, I'll have a meal. 

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But if I'm training the morning,
I'll have, you know, a cup of 

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coffee with some cream or 
something and that's pretty much

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the extent of my pre-workout 
calories there. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I Of I get up, I have like my 

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vitamins and greens and stuff 
like that and I'll have a shake 

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with like a piece of fruit or 
something. 

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And that's all. 
I'll take in the morning and 

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then I'll get in the gym. 
Nice, nice. 

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I'm trying to think where I 
first saw your profile on 

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Instagram. 
I think it's how we initially 

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connected. 
I want to say I saw a like a 

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profile of you on the nanny News
Daily which is also kind of like

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a something that you're involved
in. 

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Right? 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
So I so it's funny how that all 

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started. 
So I used to have like you know 

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I called At the body Boeing and 
banter podcast. 

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And I just had that on YouTube 
and it was just like, you know, 

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similar to what we do on a daily
news, or I just kind of would 

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reach out to somebody that I, 
you know, without be cool to 

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talk to and just chat about 
bodybuilding. 

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So, that's, that's actually how 
I met Dan and James that, I now 

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run that e-news with as I just 
had them as podcast. 

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Guess, and then, you know, we 
really hit it off and, you know,

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we've become great friends. 
Now, the three of us we've 

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talked. 
We've talked daily for the last 

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couple of years, and then we 
finally, you know, I finally met

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them in person when I went down 
to the Dates to compete. 

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So it's it's interesting how 
friendships can build after 

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never meeting one another. 
But yeah. 

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So I then it kind of went from 
that initial podcast conception 

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to, you know, there's all these 
pages that were popping up with,

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you know, the ifbb side of the 
sport with, you know, buys and 

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tries and bodybuilders Without 
Borders that just basically gave

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you know, a limelight for at 
athletes. 

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You know, they talked about 
Competitors, they shared show 

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results and stuff like that. 
And, you know, I was like, man, 

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like no one's doing that for 
natural bodybuilding, like that 

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seems weird. 
Why is nobody doing that. 

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So then that's where this kind 
of idea of the Natty news page 

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come up. 
And I was just like, you know 

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what, there's you know, people 
post photos all the time, like, 

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buying create a platform to 
just, you know, helped build the

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natural side of the sport a 
little bit and give you know 

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athletes a place to network and 
meet each other and learn about 

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you. 
Like I've met so many people 

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now, just through posts. 
Come on that page. 

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That, you know, if we ever meet 
up, it would be like, long-lost 

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friends to a point, right? 
So that's how kind of the Nati 

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news page started. 
And then we've kind of rebranded

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the podcast to that which I host
with with Dan and James and we 

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try to get them up at least 
every Friday. 

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Awesome. 
And I feel like, I feel like the

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natural bodybuilding sport as a 
whole, has not gotten near the 

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attention. 
It deserves. 

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I mean, I've been doing natural 
bodybuilding since I started 

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bodybuilding way back in. 
I don't know, two. 

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Thousand eight or nine or 
something. 

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And I've been just screaming 
about it from the rooftops but I

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think what you're doing with 
like a formal brand all 

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dedicated to the sport of 
natural bodybuilding is huge man

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because it's unfortunate that, 
you know, something I was 

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working out with somebody that 
day and they were asking me, 

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they're like, hey why we'll 
natural bodybuilding? 

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Never gained. 
The the attention that like the 

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VIP be does. 
And I'm like, man, people there,

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the money is on, I have to be 
people pay to see the freaks 

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like all these show purses for, 
you know, the Olympians. 

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I mean like the highest show 
purse. 

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For a natural bodybuilding event
as well, like 6 grand or 

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something. 
For the overall. 

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Maybe I do maybe just not any 
money in the sport, but when you

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get into the sport, I mean, it's
healthier. 

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All in all I mean it's the 
camaraderie is there amongst the

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competitors like, when I've 
competed in NPC and, you know, W

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+ BF and whatnot or Ian BF, 
rather the amateur Division and 

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the whole camaraderie backstage,
amongst natural competitors is 

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so different than what you 
experience with the NPC shows. 

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So I like I feel like it's just 
a Community. 

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And I feel like if you can dive 
in and offer value to that 

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Community, whether it be through
the podcast, what you're doing, 

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or the content that you're 
putting out is just a huge value

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at man. 
Yeah. 

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And there I mean, there's 
clearly a demand for right? 

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Like I'm a big numbers guy like 
I like data. 

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So, you know, since we started 
the page, you know, like a year 

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and you're in a bit ago, like 
we're over 12 thousand 

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followers, right? 
So there's clearly a demand for 

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natural bodybuilding. 
Get getting more attention and 

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people having a bit more of an 
outlet, like, I do, I run it on 

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my phone, right? 
So, I'll switch between my 

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personal account and the Nati 
news accounts when I switch. 

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That's when all the 
notifications will come through 

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and like all while gone and my 
phone will go ballistic between 

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like tags and story shares and 
this kind of stuff. 

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So it's there. 
And you know, one of the things 

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that, you know, we're trying to 
do is give people an opportunity

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to, you know, try to maybe get 
some more money in the sport, 

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whether that be sponsorships or 
or whatever, right? 

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Right. 
You know, we've we're working 

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with Gary and Langer who's 
competing at WWF worlds, this 

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year? 
And, you know, he's kind of our 

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first I guess. 
You can say sponsored athlete. 

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We're, we're kind of helping 
with some expenses with him and 

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stuff. 
But you know, long-term, we're 

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hoping that we can, you know, 
translate that into like 

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supplement deals for people or 
other sponsorships or whatever, 

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right? 
If, you know, even reaching out 

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to like a meal prep company 
being like, hey, this is, you 

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know, we have a platform that we
can promote you guys with years,

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maybe 10. 
Athletes that. 

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If you guys are willing to 
support then that all helps 

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right? 
Yeah I think I mean anything 

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that you can do to help the 
competitors and just simply 

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drive more awareness because 
like people like the general 

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public has such a skewed idea of
what bodybuilding is. 

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I mean, they're looking at the 
magazine covers when they're 

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going out to the grocery store. 
And like that's their idea of 

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bodybuilding. 
But like from a natural 

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standpoint like like you don't 
look like a freak, especially if

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you're a Diner downtown, you're 
in close. 

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I mean you don't even look like 
you lift when your dad and your 

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in clothes So like people have 
such this skewed relationship 

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with what is and what is not the
sport of bodybuilding especially

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from the natural sector. 
But when you look at it from, 

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you know, Health and Longevity 
standpoint. 

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That's where a lot of my 
audience comes with the picture 

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because like, I'm in my spacers,
like, a lot of the biohackers, 

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and people are trying to, you 
know, optimize their performance

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for the Long Haul. 
And I feel like I've always 

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said, you know, muscle is like 
the longevity organ. 

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If you got more lean tissue and 
you built it naturally, it's 

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just going to look better and 
it's going to bode well for you 

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aging. 
Well, you know, over the years I

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feel like everybody is a body 
butter. 

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In some sense like, three, the 
building fat that the building 

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muscle, hopefully, it's muscle. 
And I mean anything that I've 

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done with my clients that are 
competing, it's the same 

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principles that apply to just 
the general public that wants to

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be healthier. 
So the information needs to be 

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more widespread. 
Yeah, yeah it's yeah, it's 

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unfortunate man. 
It really is because II. 

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Very passionate about, you know,
I'm passionate about the sport 

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as a whole, don't get me wrong 
and I don't have any ill will or

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Resentment towards the enhance 
side of sport. 

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I'm just very passionate about 
the natural stream that I've 

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fallen into and I wish it got 
more. 

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I do maybe if respect is the 
word but you know, just more 

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attention and more positivity 
towards it from the outside 

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world with funding and support 
and stuff like that, right? 

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Like I wish the shows were 
better. 

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I wish they had a better 
lighting and better stages and 

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all that kind of stuff, but it 
simply comes down to money. 

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Yeah, total agreement. 
Well, one of them into like, 

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your personal Journey through 
natural bodybuilding. 

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So, you did a show, how many 
months ago now wasn't. 

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What are we now, August? 
So I, my last show was April 

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23rd, so we're April, May, June 
July, you know, not going on for

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months already, which is crazy, 
and it's crazy man. 

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And you've done, like, when did 
you start getting into the 

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sport? 
Like what age were you when you 

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started natural body? 
But in the first place, You want

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me to go back to lifting or back
to bodybuilding? 

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Let's go back to lift a man will
take a way back. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
So my I guess entry into the 

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world of muscles is kind of 
different than most. 

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So I grew up a big professional 
wrestling fan. 

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Hmm. 
My dad was really, it was really

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a wrestling fan. 
So he grew up with like like you

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00:10:22,308 --> 00:10:24,600
know, wrestling at all. 
If I drop some names we know who

225
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,600
I'm talking about. 
Very vaguely man. 

226
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,400
That's not my area of expertise.
Yeah. 

227
00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:32,700
Okay, so for Listening, so my 
dad grew up with, like, Hulk 

228
00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:36,400
Hogan. 
Ultimate Warrior, Randy Savage. 

229
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,500
He passed away. 
So, you know, back in that day, 

230
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,300
these guys were massive. 
They were muscular. 

231
00:10:42,300 --> 00:10:46,700
So then, as I grew up, started 
watching wrestling names. 

232
00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:50,700
Like the rock, John Cena, Stone 
Cold, Steve Austin. 

233
00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:53,300
Like these were all very, very 
muscular people. 

234
00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:59,200
They were massive, and I don't 
know this for sure, but I'm also

235
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,100
a Big fan of psychology so I can
kind of reverse engineer things 

236
00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:04,900
that I think at a very young age
I was like imprinted with 

237
00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:06,600
muscles. 
Hmm because that's what I 

238
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,700
watched on TV and I thought it 
was the coolest thing ever. 

239
00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:11,800
And then you know, in movies and
stuff at the time, right? 

240
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,800
Like, you know, the big the 
superheroes, they're all Jack, 

241
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:15,700
right? 
Right. 

242
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:20,400
So I grew up with with 
wrestling, in my face, multiple 

243
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,400
nights a week for much of my 
childhood. 

244
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,300
So then the natural progression 
of that is I want to look like 

245
00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:29,200
those guys while you gotta, you 
gotta work out. 

246
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,600
So then my parents got me, just 
a little weight bench. 

247
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,700
I remember. 
I had like a leg extension leg 

248
00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:40,300
curl attachment had a little lat
pulldown attachment and that was

249
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,100
just in a corner of our house. 
I think it come with 80 pounds 

250
00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:46,600
in weight sand for me and like 
grade 7, grade 8. 

251
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,400
So I was probably like, 12, 13 
years old. 

252
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:52,600
Like I started like exercising, 
right? 

253
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,200
Like I would do curls, I would 
do. 

254
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:58,400
I had one of those door chin up 
things, so do chin, UPS, 

255
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:01,200
crunches. 
The beach muscles is people like

256
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,200
the commonly refer to it as not 
really much for legs and stuff 

257
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,900
like that. 
But I was I was exercising like 

258
00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:09,400
pretty young, like 12 13 years 
old. 

259
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:13,000
And then obviously from there, 
the next transition is like 

260
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,200
okay, you know, you're going to 
start doing things a little bit 

261
00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:19,200
more intelligent, right? 
You start to educate yourself on

262
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,000
How to Train better and get 
bigger and stuff. 

263
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,500
So then that's when I started 
getting the magazines and stuff 

264
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,400
like that, like there was never 
an opportunity that my mom could

265
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,400
take me to like the grocery 
store. 

266
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,000
And I wouldn't run over the 
magazine section and get a copy 

267
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,500
of flex magazine or muscle mag 
or whatever, right? 

268
00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:39,000
And I would read those cover to 
cover. 

269
00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:43,800
So I started kind of taking 
bodybuilding somewhat seriously,

270
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:49,000
you know, even like when I first
got into high school I was just 

271
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,000
I was so fascinated by it. 
Like the concept of getting 

272
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,000
bigger of building muscle and 
you know this is this is 

273
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,700
something that I've talked to 
The podcast and stuff with the 

274
00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:04,800
guys about, I guess the 
delusions and having any 

275
00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:08,000
disheartened went towards it. 
So you know, nowadays everybody 

276
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,300
sees people on social media and 
they look incredible all the 

277
00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:14,700
time and they're young, right? 
Like you see the 20 year old 

278
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:18,500
that just looks incredible and 
people get disheartened by that 

279
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:20,000
because they're like, I don't 
look like that. 

280
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:25,000
I just saw these massive people 
and I was just so I don't know. 

281
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,500
I mean inspired by it, maybe I 
was just like, wow, like the 

282
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:29,200
fact that you could do this is 
insane. 

283
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:34,500
Well, I was just I was very 
drawn to it, and I wouldn't say 

284
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:37,600
I have like, great genetics but 
like I saw results, right? 

285
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,600
So then once you see the 
results, you get more hooked on 

286
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,000
it, right? 
You're like, oh, I'm actually 

287
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,600
accomplishing something so I can
keep doing this. 

288
00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:49,600
And then when I turned 16 for my
16th birthday, my parents got me

289
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,200
three months with a personal 
trainer, turns out, he was a 

290
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,800
Canadian champion boxer at the 
time. 

291
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,200
But he was, he was jacked. 
Yeah, he was, he was like 5 

292
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,700
foot. 
Or but I'm a member like his 

293
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,600
arms were incredible from 
obviously boxing. 

294
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,700
And then training, right? 
So instantly like this guy, 

295
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:10,600
knows everything. 
I'm I'm like, completely 

296
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:12,500
trusting everything, he says, 
right. 

297
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:16,400
So, for three months, I was with
him, he's either two or three 

298
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,400
times a week, consistently for 
three months. 

299
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,100
And that was like the real 
Catalyst to me getting in the 

300
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:25,500
gym and having an understanding 
of like, how to program a little

301
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:28,000
bit. 
And, you know, what to do in the

302
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,600
gym, outside of just curls. 
And chin-ups, right? 

303
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,000
Hmm. 
And then it just kind of 

304
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,100
progressed from there through 
through high school and stuff 

305
00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:39,000
and I continue to train. 
Like there was no, then you 

306
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,000
start to get a couple bodies in 
the gym, like, we'd go to the 

307
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:47,300
high school gym or I took over 
my dad's garage at home, and I 

308
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,700
started Gathering like, dinky 
little piece of equipment. 

309
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:53,700
It's funny what, I've what I've 
done now, Ten Years Later at my 

310
00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:56,000
own home. 
I kind of did on a smaller scale

311
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,200
at my parents place. 
So it's funny how the world 

312
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,700
works like that, but Yeah, I was
always just into training, 

313
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,300
right? 
It wasn't necessarily like any 

314
00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:09,500
inclination of ever competing. 
I was into bodybuilding. 

315
00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:12,900
I didn't follow it, but I was, I
was reading the magazines and 

316
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:15,900
I'd watch stuff online and you 
know, read articles and stuff 

317
00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:18,000
like that. 
I was just I was just into this 

318
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:23,900
idea of building muscle. 
So then through High School 

319
00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:26,900
compete are not competed trained
through college trained and then

320
00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:31,100
that's when it kind of sparked. 
This the idea of maybe wanting 

321
00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:35,400
to compete myself, my cousin's, 
dad actually was a competitor. 

322
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,900
So just speaking with him and 
stuff he was on the enhanced as 

323
00:15:39,908 --> 00:15:41,500
well but I don't think I knew it
at the time. 

324
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:43,900
Probably didn't care either way.
I just thought it was cool that 

325
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:51,500
he competed and then I did my 
first prep myself in 2015. 

326
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:56,600
And it's funny that I like, when
I look back, I did, you know, If

327
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,900
It Fits your Macros, I used my 
fitness pal religiously, which 

328
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,500
you'll never catch me doing any 
more. 

329
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:07,400
I just don't prep that way, but 
I was 21 at the time when I 

330
00:16:07,408 --> 00:16:12,000
first competed in the fall of 
2015 and that was, that was a 

331
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,100
good introduction to the sport. 
I come second out of, I think 

332
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:18,300
there was 11 guys, so, you know,
you get that little bit of 

333
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:20,800
positive reinforcement as well, 
which kind of you'll see things 

334
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:27,400
even more and then That 
following spring, I competed 

335
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,000
again and that was my first 
dabble into bodybuilding then. 

336
00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:35,500
So here in Canada at the time we
had Regional events, which were 

337
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:39,100
kind of your local show, then 
you go to provincials, which 

338
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:42,000
would cover the whole Province. 
So for myself, it was Ontario 

339
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,800
and then you would have 
Nationals which is all of 

340
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,600
Canada, so I end up winning all 
through that stream won 

341
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,100
Nationals for my weight class 
that year and then it just 

342
00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:55,600
snowballed from there. 
And how old are you now I'm 28 

343
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,000
now. 
So I have been competing 

344
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:01,700
actively. 
I guess we're seven years but 

345
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:03,900
I've been training for for over 
a decade. 

346
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:05,000
Nice, nice. 
Yeah. 

347
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,000
I feel like my first show. 
My first show is Pleasant 14 and

348
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,900
did my prep myself as well. 
And those first show is man, 

349
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:15,700
it's crazy. 
Like, if you do a show, you 

350
00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:18,300
either become hooked or you 
scratch that itch and you never 

351
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:22,099
want to do it again but I feel 
like yeah show is always the 

352
00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:25,099
hardest. 
Because you have no, you have no

353
00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:28,700
perspective over anything, so 
like it, becomes depending on 

354
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,900
the type of person you are, 
like, for me, I did everything 

355
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:34,900
wrong. 
Like I lost 80 pounds in 12 

356
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:36,400
weeks. 
I lost a ton of muscle. 

357
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,200
I took my calories way too low. 
I won the show but it was like 

358
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,400
not a healthier sustainable way 
to go about it at all. 

359
00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:46,500
But like the the mental benefit 
that I got from achieving 

360
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:48,600
something that I worked really 
hard for far. 

361
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,600
Outweigh all the negatives. 
But I feel like so many people 

362
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,500
that first show and they fixate 
on the negatives and not the 

363
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:55,100
positive. 
The never do with a second show,

364
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:56,800
which for me is always been 
easier. 

365
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,500
The more shows I do the easier 
it gets. 

366
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:00,700
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

367
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:05,400
I often like reflect on how 
things have changed for me over 

368
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,700
the years and I would I think I 
had a better mindset towards the

369
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:14,100
sport at the beginning. 
Hmm because when I first started

370
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:17,400
like I wanted I wanted to do 
well but it was more of just 

371
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,300
like I just want to try this 
out. 

372
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,500
And then as I progressed in the 
Spore and not to toot my own 

373
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:27,300
horn, but I kept winning like I 
was undefeated in my classes for

374
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,400
like, my first like, after I 
come second and that first show,

375
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,700
I never lost for quite some time
after that. 

376
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:37,700
So you kind of get this like, in
feeling of invincibility, like I

377
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:41,100
am the best because, you know, 
statistically speaking, I kept 

378
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:48,500
winning and then I remember, I, 
when I come second after that, I

379
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:52,100
handled it well. 
And it lit a fire but then this 

380
00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:57,800
season I I know my attitude 
towards it started to get 

381
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,800
unhealthy. 
What I think it was a lot of 

382
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,400
from getting so much positivity 
on social media. 

383
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:10,800
Yeah that I knew I know now 
looking back had I not have 

384
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,300
accomplished what I did like 
winning I would have I would 

385
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:18,100
have really had a hard time 
mentally from that. 

386
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:20,800
I would have really beat myself 
up and I know Out about myself. 

387
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:23,800
So then for me, it's trying to 
dissect. 

388
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,300
Okay? 
How do we fix that? 

389
00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,600
Yeah, totally. 
So this last week did four 

390
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,400
months ago, you won that show, 
so I did for this year. 

391
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:37,100
So My First show was the end of 
March. 

392
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:39,700
So I had three in a row so at 
the end of March and then the 

393
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:42,500
first two weeks of April and 
then I had a week off and then 

394
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:44,300
the last one there, the last 
week April. 

395
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:47,600
So I was undefeated this season 
so I want all four again. 

396
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,300
It's awesome man. 
Congratulations. 

397
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:52,300
Yeah. 
So I walked away with my, my 

398
00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:54,000
wbff Pro card was like my big 
one. 

399
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,700
Like that was the the holy grail
for me? 

400
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:59,700
This season. 
I also got my OCD Pro card, I 

401
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:04,000
won an untested show which for 
me was kind of wild to see. 

402
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,200
So again, like I had again that 
sense of invincibility and you 

403
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,400
know, the difference between now
and, you know, back when I first

404
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,200
started was that I had, you 
know, my parents and my 

405
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,800
girlfriend at the time being 
like, wow, you look so great. 

406
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,600
This time around, I had 
Thousands of people online, 

407
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,600
telling me I look so great. 
So then that starts to kind of 

408
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:25,800
mess with your head a little 
bit. 

409
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:28,700
No, totally man. 
I feel like, like it's always, 

410
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,300
I've always described as a 
mental sport, but like so much 

411
00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:35,100
of it is just your outlook 
towards everything involved. 

412
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:37,200
Like, how you handled, the 
winds, how you handle the 

413
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,100
losses, how you approach, you 
know, the building phase, the 

414
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:44,400
competition prep itself. 
Like there's so much psychology 

415
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,100
that goes into the sport of 
bodybuilding. 

416
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:50,800
I try to really be stoic like, 
when with my last private was in

417
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:56,700
2020 and I started prepping 
November 2019 and then literally

418
00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:59,900
one week before my first 
competition covid canceled, the 

419
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:03,200
entire show. 
So I was like super distraught 

420
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,000
but I was at the time reading a 
bunch of like, you know, books 

421
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,800
on stoicism. 
So I was able to just kind of 

422
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,600
like make the most of that 
situation did a photo shoot and 

423
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,200
made the best of it. 
But like that kind of shit 

424
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,100
happens in body. 
Like things like the stars. 

425
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:19,200
Never align something crazy 
happens. 

426
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,900
It's Perfect scenario. 
So you have to kind of just take

427
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:25,000
it and roll with it. 
But if you know like with 

428
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,700
bodybuilding, if you know that 
you've pulled out all the stops 

429
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:29,900
and have done everything to the 
best of your ability with the 

430
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:33,100
variables that you can control, 
then that's pretty much just 

431
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:35,700
where you have to leave it. 
I mean it's a subjective sport. 

432
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:38,400
Like you may be bringing your 
best package but that's not what

433
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,500
the judges are looking for that 
day. 

434
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:44,200
You just have to be accepting of
that fact, but they obviously 

435
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,400
were looking for what you 
brought to the table because you

436
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,000
won and went undefeated this 
year. 

437
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,000
Yeah, it's interesting man. 
Especially as a coach right? 

438
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,800
Like everything. 
I try to tell my clients and and

439
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,300
try to get them to understand 
with regards to, you know, what 

440
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,700
bodybuilding is, right? 
Like there's no, there's no like

441
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:05,100
tangible win. 
You know what I mean? 

442
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:07,300
Like, I had a client and he had 
come. 

443
00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:11,500
He was like ninth just a couple 
weeks ago and then he competed 

444
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:14,000
again the following weekend. 
He come third hmm. 

445
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:18,800
And I was like okay like this 
use this as a Learning 

446
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,100
experience because he was 
buzzing, right? 

447
00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:22,600
Like he went, he was so evil. 
He was pretty upset the week 

448
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,600
before and then he comes third 
feeling, good, happy excited, 

449
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,200
top three awesome, which is 
fair. 

450
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,100
And I'm not here to discredit 
that because I'm very proud of 

451
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:33,300
him because he worked his ass 
off. 

452
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:36,900
But one thing people have to 
understand is that like, so for 

453
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:38,700
him? 
Yes. 

454
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:43,400
We made some very minor 
improvements that week into the 

455
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,600
second show. 
We peaked him a little bit 

456
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,100
better, you know. 
Just overall we Improve things a

457
00:22:49,108 --> 00:22:51,700
little bit but it wasn't, you 
know, he didn't put on 10 pounds

458
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:53,900
of muscle to completely 
transform his Physique in a 

459
00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:55,100
week, right. 
Right. 

460
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,100
The biggest difference was that 
the athletes that beat him the 

461
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:01,100
week, prior weren't there the 
second time. 

462
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:08,200
So he by all intensive purposes,
looked the same, but his placing

463
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,800
improved by 6. 
Mmm. 

464
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:15,600
And I'm like, okay, like I get 
it and that's awesome. 

465
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:20,100
But we have to remember kind of 
what that represents and that's 

466
00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:22,700
and this is just a specific 
situation that's happening now. 

467
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,900
But you know, I tell people that
like if Chris Bumstead decides 

468
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,000
to do, basically any classic 
physique show outside of the 

469
00:23:29,008 --> 00:23:31,200
Olympia Chris is winning. 
Yeah. 

470
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:34,500
And that goes for any other top 
athlete right? 

471
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:38,100
Like you know back in the day if
Ronnie Coleman ever wanted to do

472
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,800
another Pro show. 
Like odds are Ronnie's going to 

473
00:23:40,808 --> 00:23:42,900
win but if Iran he's not there 
then not spots. 

474
00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:46,600
Right. 
But nothing else changes except 

475
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,100
the athletes that showed up. 
Yeah, you're totally doesn't. 

476
00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:53,900
Yeah, so it's just I don't know,
it's weird man, I love the sport

477
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:57,000
but it's You need to have an 
understanding of what it 

478
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,500
actually is, because there's no,
like, there's no tangible way 

479
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:04,100
for me to, you know, 
quote-unquote beat somebody. 

480
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:07,500
Write it. 
Like, there's, there's no direct

481
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,600
physique metrics that they're 
measuring or they're monitoring,

482
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,300
I can't lift more than you. 
I can't run faster than you. 

483
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:15,900
I can't throw farther and you 
like, those are all tangible 

484
00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:17,800
things that you can track and 
measure. 

485
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,900
Yeah, bodybuilding is not that. 
And I don't know. 

486
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:27,000
That's where placings they kind 
of have an asterisk beside them 

487
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,100
like you one. 
But like I know for a fact, 

488
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:32,900
there's a there's athletes that 
are amateurs that had they have 

489
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:34,800
come to the shows that I would 
have done. 

490
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:36,900
They would have beat me. 
I'm not done to that. 

491
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:39,300
I don't think I'm the best 
athlete there is in the world 

492
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:41,900
because if I was, I'd be the 
world champion forever. 

493
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,200
It's not how it works. 
Yeah. 

494
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,400
It's just trying to is trying to
forge that mature mindset 

495
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,100
towards this quote unquote sport
because Is, you know, people 

496
00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:55,100
would get so hooked on. 
I want to win. 

497
00:24:55,300 --> 00:25:01,600
I'm the best, and then You know,
better athletes show up but 

498
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,300
better carries so much different
meaning to it than really any 

499
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:11,600
other sport like better in track
and field is tangible better in 

500
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:15,400
you know, throwing sport or 
lifting sport like you can 

501
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,200
measure what better is the 
bodybuilding, your kind of can't

502
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:21,900
ya feel like you have to use the
fact that there's going to be 

503
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:25,300
other competitors on stage as a 
way to keep you honest, with 

504
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:27,300
yourself like you want to be the
hardest worker in the room and 

505
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:28,400
you want to leave nothing to 
chance. 

506
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:31,800
And at the end of the day, the 
main priority, I feel is to 

507
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,600
Simply bring a improved package 
from what you brought the last 

508
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,400
time you stepped on stage 
because if you get hung up on, 

509
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,500
who's showing up, you get in 
your head and just becomes a - I

510
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:49,200
mean, I was at a I compete at 
the WNBA of showing Washington 

511
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,400
State quite a bit and Matt ogas 
competed there one year. 

512
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,800
So I went to that because I was 
living in Washington that time 

513
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,800
and had several friends that 
were competing So he was up on 

514
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,300
stage and he was the favorite to
win, you know? 

515
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:04,400
Like, every like he is the 
massive following like everybody

516
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,600
was like, okay, this guy's got a
who's playing for second. 

517
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,200
And then I don't know where this
random guy that was just 

518
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,300
freaking yoked. 
Had no social following, showed 

519
00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:14,400
up and destroy him. 
You know, exotic you can't ever 

520
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,000
really plan for that. 
You just have to bring your best

521
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,700
package. 
You can't ever get cocky with 

522
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:20,700
it. 
You just have to Simply bring 

523
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:23,900
your best package, but if you 
can, you know, take pictures of 

524
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,400
each time you step on stage and 
compare them to the last time 

525
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,600
you stepped on stage and see, 
you know, Nificant Improvement 

526
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,700
whether that's better 
conditioning more muscle 

527
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,400
maturity better shape better 
symmetry than you can feel 

528
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,400
confident that you're doing 
something right now, exactly. 

529
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,600
There, you know, Jeff Albert's 
famously said, Chase the 

530
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,400
physique right? 
And there's so much truth to 

531
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:48,700
that where You know, racking up 
wins or placings and titles and 

532
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:53,100
stuff like we, all kind of want 
that but the end of the day you 

533
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:58,600
know we got into this to improve
our physiques outside of that 30

534
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,500
seconds on stage, right. 
Like I remember looking at a 

535
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:08,300
side-by-side of for my last 
season in 2019 to now when I was

536
00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:10,700
working with Cliff he said you 
know bring your backup. 

537
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,900
So the first thing I did when I 
got my professional photos was 

538
00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:17,200
The side by side. 
And I was I was honestly very 

539
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,400
Blown Away by what I've been 
able to build. 

540
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:26,200
And that feeling when I saw that
trumped, how I felt when I had 

541
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,800
won the show the day before. 
Yeah. 

542
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,600
So right at that and and it took
it kind of took me aback a 

543
00:27:32,608 --> 00:27:35,700
little bit because I was that 
was when I won my OC B pro card,

544
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,900
which was great and I felt 
awesome. 

545
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,100
And then when I got the stage 
photos and made that 

546
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,500
side-by-side, I was like, damn, 
like, okay, that's what But you 

547
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:49,000
know, three years of consistent 
effort looks like from a 

548
00:27:49,008 --> 00:27:53,300
physique standpoint. 
So and like I said, I felt I 

549
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:59,800
felt better and very much. 
Good about myself when I saw 

550
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,300
that. 
Now, you should man. 

551
00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:03,800
I mean, that like, building 
muscle, especially after you've 

552
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,200
been training a long time. 
Like people have a very flawed 

553
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,500
idea of what is possible to 
build in a year. 

554
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:13,600
But like, once you've passed 
that point of, you know, 

555
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,900
consistent training for five 
years, anything beyond that, 

556
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:18,900
like it's pretty incremental 
gains. 

557
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:21,100
It's certainly progress. 
You can certainly see changes in

558
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:23,100
physique, but it's not like 
you're adding 20 pounds of lean 

559
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:25,800
tissue every single year. 
And I feel like a lot of people 

560
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,800
have this disillusioned idea of 
Is possible so natural 

561
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,700
bodybuilding. 
I feel like a such a great 

562
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:37,000
illustration of what is possible
because you look at all these 

563
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,000
Elite level competitors, like 
they're they're not putting on, 

564
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,600
you know, 10, 20 pounds of 
muscle, you have to, you have to

565
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,100
hear they're getting excited 
about 123 pounds maybe but like 

566
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:51,600
they're all competing at a 
relatively similar weight. 

567
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,600
Each time they step on stage and
like you mentioned your last 

568
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,200
show season was in 2019. 
It's 20:22. 

569
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,400
I feel like so many competitors,
make the mistake of competing 

570
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:05,200
far too frequently and then they
spend, you know, hardly any time

571
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,400
and legitimate building phase. 
So, like, for me, you know, my 

572
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,900
preps are anywhere from four to 
six months long. 

573
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:13,000
I'll take two or three months to
reverse diet back. 

574
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,000
Then I won't compete again for 
another two or three years. 

575
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,300
Yeah, I remember a guy that I 
was kind of tight with it. 

576
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,100
The gym, he was a couple years 
older than me and he had 

577
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:26,100
competed and I don't I think 
he'd done to shows when I 

578
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:29,300
started kind of Normally, I'd 
ask me who's competing again. 

579
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:32,900
He's like, when I, when I feel 
like I'm gonna compete again, 

580
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,500
knowing that all look different.
He's like, my biggest thing is 

581
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,000
not returning to the stage and 
looking the same. 

582
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,300
Yeah, the time, I didn't 
understand that now. 

583
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:48,100
I fully do you know, now my 
projected return is 20 25 and 

584
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:51,100
people still don't quite 
understand that and I'm like, 

585
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:53,900
I'm just trying to replicate 
what I did the last three years.

586
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:57,300
It's not any different but it 
sounds, you know, so far away. 

587
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,800
Especially, you know, locally. 
It's very common for people to 

588
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,300
repeat season after season after
season, right? 

589
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:05,800
So all the people that I know 
locally are like, wait, why are 

590
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,100
you waiting so long? 
What are you doing? 

591
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:10,200
And you know on like, man, I 
don't want to, I don't want to 

592
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,200
replicate this physique. 
I wanted improved and a lot of 

593
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,600
people, they wind up looking 
worse. 

594
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,200
Like they hit a point at which 
they're spending more time in a 

595
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,500
deficit than in a surplus. 
They're not really building a 

596
00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:24,000
lean tissue there, losing muscle
in the cut, so they wind up 

597
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,700
looking worse. 
If they're competing every six 

598
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:29,300
months to a year, Which is like 
the very last thing you want to 

599
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:31,600
do as someone that's trying to 
leverage the sport and natural 

600
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,700
bodybuilding to improve. 
I mean if you do it right 

601
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:36,000
natural body, but I've always 
described as like the Fountain 

602
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,600
of Youth. 
I mean, you can truly get better

603
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,000
and better with each year that 
passes as opposed to worse and 

604
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,700
worse. 
Oh, for sure. 

605
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:44,600
Yeah, there's those outliers 
that can do it, but I think for 

606
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,400
the most part more time off is, 
is more beneficial do this from 

607
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,000
Life perspective, right? 
Like, you know, you get so 

608
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,300
consumed by it for so long like 
my prep ended up totaling. 

609
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,500
By the time I was done was 35 
weeks. 

610
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:01,700
Yeah. 
So, you know, that's north of 

611
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:03,700
half a year, right? 
So that's half a year that 

612
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:08,100
you're kind of dedicated to this
thing and then, you know, people

613
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:11,100
are like, well, why you waiting 
so long to return to the stage 

614
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:13,300
and like mashallah live again? 
Yeah. 

615
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:16,900
Totally man, you gotta find what
sustainable for you so you don't

616
00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:20,300
burn out and that you have some 
sense of livelihood, you know, 

617
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:22,200
outside of the gym and the the 
macros. 

618
00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:24,900
Sure. 
I kind of want to dive into the 

619
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:26,700
nuts and bolts of your protocol 
man. 

620
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:29,300
So like you said, Your first 
show you were doing flexible 

621
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:31,400
dieting, tracking everything 
with MyFitnessPal. 

622
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,500
Like, give us some stats. 
Like, how tall are you? 

623
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,100
What is your weight competition 
day? 

624
00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:37,800
What your weight off season? 
How are you kind of structuring 

625
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,300
your meals that words that look 
like for you? 

626
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,500
Yeah. 
So I'm self-proclaimed 57 shows 

627
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:48,400
will call me five six and three 
quarters but call myself by 

628
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:54,800
seven-stage weight. 
This year was still in the 150s 

629
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,200
for all my shows. 
I Didn't in way in because they 

630
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,400
are all just open class. 
So this was like the first 

631
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,100
season where I didn't get to 
strap to what I weighed, which 

632
00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:08,900
was interesting. 
Yeah, because before we always 

633
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:12,000
tried to, like ensure I was in 
the lightweight class so I could

634
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,500
be competitive. 
The only time we consciously 

635
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:18,900
tried to make a weight was for 
the untested show because I 

636
00:32:18,900 --> 00:32:21,300
knew, at least, if I could get 
in the lightweight class, I 

637
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:23,300
could be competitive against 
other light weights, but if I 

638
00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:29,500
was a class higher, it might not
be so competitive. but this 

639
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:35,800
year, I saw A low of 149. 
But that was like, very 

640
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,000
depleted. 
So with cliff and I we did like 

641
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,900
a very hard to please him. 
We would do like his rapid back 

642
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:45,000
load, which, you know, for those
listening kind of summed up, is 

643
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,200
that we basically did no carbs 
from Monday to Thursday and then

644
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,900
we get it at aggressive load on 
Friday. 

645
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:55,900
So, the lowest I saw this prep 
on the last depletion day of the

646
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:58,900
last peak week was 149. 
Something. 

647
00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:05,100
And then carved up, I was 158 So
theoretically from when I 

648
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:11,200
competed in 2019 151 to 152, if 
I've competed at 1:58 that's 

649
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,200
about five or six pounds between
That season 2 now, so that I was

650
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,300
happy with that obviously and I 
was doing there so there's 

651
00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:19,600
probably a bit more muscle than 
that. 

652
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,100
But so that's kind of stage 
weight is has still been sub 160

653
00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:28,800
onstage. 
Last offseason, I got up to 200 

654
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,000
for a little bit. 
I spent a lot of time in the 

655
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:37,000
1990s. 
I was big, but I was, I was soft

656
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,300
for sure. 
Like, they're like, you can 

657
00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:41,200
tell, I worked out, but without 
a shirt on, like I was quite 

658
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,100
soft. 
Yeah. 

659
00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:48,600
Right now, I am hanging around 
the mid 1880s, which seems to be

660
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,600
a pretty good sweet spot for me 
to, like, hang out. 

661
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:59,900
I'm pretty 80/20 with my food, 
you know Apes on the time. 

662
00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:01,600
I'm kind of seeing the same 
shit. 

663
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,100
Yeah. 
And then 20 percent the time, 

664
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,000
you know, my wife and I want to 
go out for dinner where I'm 

665
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,100
pizza or whatever, then we'll do
that. 

666
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:12,800
You know, I'm just I'm not 
actively pushing food right now.

667
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,300
We have our one year anniversary
next month or this this month, I

668
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:19,300
guess. 
But next week, we're doing a 

669
00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:21,699
photo shoot for that. 
So I wanted to kind of just not 

670
00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:24,699
be a fat pig for that and then 
we have our honeymoon in 

671
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,400
December. 
So Seeing what I looked like at 

672
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,100
200. 
I was like, yeah, I'm not doing 

673
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:34,800
that for going to Mexico. 
So right now, I still look good.

674
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,300
In my opinion, I still have some
semblance of abs and I'm, you 

675
00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:43,699
know, 25, 30 pounds over stage, 
wait, so body composition wise, 

676
00:34:43,699 --> 00:34:47,900
I'm in a good spot. 
Training is good, food wise. 

677
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:55,300
I have a pretty set plan for the
most part so I I'm a full-time 

678
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,100
Coach. 
But I also have like a day job 

679
00:34:57,100 --> 00:35:01,100
to Monday to Friday. 
So I'll eat four or five meals a

680
00:35:01,107 --> 00:35:03,700
day during the week, like 
exactly the same. 

681
00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:05,400
So I'll prep things and I'll 
try. 

682
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,200
I'll have it all laid out and 
measured just out of habit and 

683
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,300
convenience, but then dinners is
kind of where that 20% comes 

684
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:13,800
into play. 
You know, some nights, it's 

685
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,300
steak and potatoes and 
vegetables, and then some 

686
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:17,800
nights. 
Like I said, you know, we've had

687
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,200
a long day. 
You want to grab a pizza? 

688
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:22,300
Yep, sounds good. 
That's how I approach it. 

689
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:26,900
I'm not one to be, you know, as 
Stringent in the offseason. 

690
00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:28,900
Like I said, I just want to live
a little bit. 

691
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:32,300
I want to be quote unquote 
normal and my life's different. 

692
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:36,400
Now you know I could be more, I 
guess robotic beforehand but you

693
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,000
know I'm married. 
Now we got a house, we got 

694
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,600
friends, like I'm not going to 
be, you know, I spent enough 

695
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,700
time bringing Tupperware to 
social outings, I'm not doing it

696
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,000
when I don't have to. 
Yeah, no, totally get it man. 

697
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,600
Like I think, like I said, you 
got to figure out what 

698
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,100
sustainable for you and if 
you're if you're doing I feel 

699
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:54,700
like being a little bit more 
relaxed in the building phase 

700
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:56,400
because you can afford, And to 
be more like, as long as you're 

701
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,700
training, hard and getting 
enough nutrition in, you don't 

702
00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:02,800
have to be as dialed in with the
exact macro G. 

703
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,000
And I feel like if your allow 
yourself that, you know, 

704
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,200
relaxation, so to speak, then it
allows you to be that much more 

705
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,100
strict when it counts in the 
prep. 

706
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:13,300
And I feel like that is kind of 
like the yin and yang that is 

707
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:15,100
necessary. 
Yeah. 

708
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:19,100
Like you know, I've talked to, 
you know, I've talked to a lot 

709
00:36:19,100 --> 00:36:23,100
of athletes and you know, the 
the common Trend with many of 

710
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:29,400
the top ones is Is giving 
yourself that that freedom, you 

711
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,900
know what I mean? 
Like, I think a lot of the 

712
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,600
younger athletes feel. 
They need to be these perfect 

713
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:39,400
body building robots, 24/7, 365 
off crap on prep, whatever and 

714
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,800
some can. 
But I think a lot that I've 

715
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,800
talking to have this Psych I 
don't want to do this, but I 

716
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,700
feel like I have to mentality 
which it usually doesn't end 

717
00:36:53,700 --> 00:36:57,500
well. 
Whereas like, you know, Cliff is

718
00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:01,300
very smart about this kind of 
stuff, you know. 

719
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:03,800
Brett Freeman is another one 
that I'm close with, you know, 

720
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,300
Berto. 
Jeff Albert's like you see, all 

721
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:09,800
these athletes that have been in
it for a long time and a lot of 

722
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:15,500
them vouch for that freedom and 
giving yourself that leeway when

723
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:18,900
you can, you know, If told me 
that body buildings like a 

724
00:37:18,908 --> 00:37:21,500
dimmer switch, it's never off 
but sometimes you turn it down a

725
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:22,500
little bit. 
I like that. 

726
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,800
Yeah, yeah. 
So on prep obviously, you're 

727
00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:28,600
you're cranking that up as prep 
goes on and by the end of it 

728
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,200
like you're running out of 100. 
Yeah. 

729
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,300
But in the off season, you know,
you know, my like my day-to-day 

730
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:36,900
is still, you know, a lot of 
people are still going to be 

731
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:38,300
like, how do you eat like that 
Bob? 

732
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:39,900
Alright. 
So my dimmer switch is probably 

733
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:45,600
at like 75, right? 
But that 25 gives me that 

734
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,100
ability. 
To live, you know, a normal 

735
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:52,400
quote, unquote, normal life, you
know, and enjoy time with 

736
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,800
friends, enjoy time with family,
with my wife, go to Mexico, and 

737
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,800
not stress that I don't have my 
scale with me. 

738
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,700
Like, these are the kind of 
things that, you know, before I 

739
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:05,000
used to struggle with, but now, 
as I've gotten older, and as my 

740
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,300
life has changed and will 
continue to change right? 

741
00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:09,300
Like, you know, what's going to 
happen when I have kids and 

742
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:12,000
stuff. 
Like I can't be this robotic 

743
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,900
body builder when I have kids 
running around and stuff like 

744
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:18,000
that. 
So I'm trying to A I guess 

745
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,900
mentally progressing the sport 
as well as physically, right? 

746
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,400
Yeah. 
And I think that's huge man, I 

747
00:38:22,408 --> 00:38:27,700
feel like you know what, what 
stress load you're able to deal 

748
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:32,600
with, you know, over time is Key
and I feel like if you're so 

749
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,000
obsessive about getting 
everything dialed in because I 

750
00:38:35,008 --> 00:38:37,600
used to be that way. 
Like I used to carry my I had 

751
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,100
like a duffel bag just for for 
Tupperware. 

752
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,300
If I didn't eat within a certain
window, I'd I'd get like 

753
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,200
anxious. 
If I didn't train within a 

754
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,700
certain window, I get anxious. 
And it's just like it takes the 

755
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:51,300
fun out of the sport at the end 
of the day, like I'm the one 

756
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,400
putting the suffering on myself,
like I should at least enjoy the

757
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,300
process and if you're so 
stressed out about every little,

758
00:38:57,300 --> 00:39:01,000
my new detail that you can't 
live then then you're not going 

759
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,500
to enjoy it and then you'll 
probably reach a burnout and 

760
00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:06,300
like my main goal with it is I 
just want to continue to do it 

761
00:39:06,308 --> 00:39:09,900
and continue getting better. 
You know, indefinitely and you 

762
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:12,200
can't really do that. 
If it's causing you and reckon 

763
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,200
more havoc on your life than I 
would be optimal. 

764
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,700
Yeah, like I don't know, I think
I think it can cause much more 

765
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:24,000
stress than it needs to with 
people, right. 

766
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,100
Like I've been there that it's 
consumed me and you know caused 

767
00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:31,700
issues in my life that are so 
easily avoided. 

768
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:37,200
If I just you know don't be such
a I don't know what sort of like

769
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,100
robot about things. 
You know, you can still enjoy 

770
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:44,500
life while still progressing 
with your physique Endeavors. 

771
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,900
Totally. 
Year, you said you're around the

772
00:39:47,908 --> 00:39:50,300
180s right now. 
Do you know what your offseason 

773
00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:52,400
building? 
Phase weight, our body fat 

774
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,900
percentage is roughly I'm in the
teens for sure. 

775
00:39:56,900 --> 00:39:58,800
I've honestly never measured my 
body fat. 

776
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,400
I couldn't tell you you know, 
looking at myself I'm probably 

777
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,500
like 14 to 16 percent probably 
somewhere around there. 

778
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,600
I hold my body fat distribution 
is like, you know, pretty 

779
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,500
favorable. 
So yeah, I can probably look a 

780
00:40:13,508 --> 00:40:15,900
little bit leaner. 
Like I said, like I'm 30 pounds 

781
00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:17,900
over stage, right? 
And still like when I flex have 

782
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:21,400
visible ABS. 
I hold a lot of weight, kind of 

783
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:23,100
behind me. 
So like my lower back and my 

784
00:40:23,107 --> 00:40:28,400
glutes and hamstrings Yeah, with
a swimsuit on, I still look like

785
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,500
pretty jacked but you know, 
comparatively speaking. 

786
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:33,900
I'm I'm 30 pounds heavier. 
Yeah. 

787
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:35,800
I feel like that's a pretty good
window. 

788
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,500
Post-show, I mean when I did my 
my first quote unquote building 

789
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:43,800
phase, I got to 30 and I'm like,
57 self-proclaimed. 

790
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:45,600
I want to say self-proclaimed 
58. 

791
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,900
But my wife correction, it says,
I'm 57 so 2:30 at that. 

792
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:51,400
Height is not a good look at 
all. 

793
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,600
So now I'll typically stay 
within about T, 25 pounds of 

794
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,000
stage weights, like right now, 
I'm like 180 180 to someone that

795
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,700
window but round the same body 
fat percentage and I feel like 

796
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:06,800
that is incredibly healthier 
than these crazy building and 

797
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,400
cutting phases in which you have
to lose 50 plus pounds. 

798
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,900
I've done that in the past, it's
not good and some people do it. 

799
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:16,300
I mean, Some people prefer that 
but I feel like you're 

800
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:20,400
sacrificing some of the health 
aspects, and what we're natural 

801
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,600
bodybuilding can truly shine. 
As there's a healthy lifestyle, 

802
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,600
I feel like you're sacrificing 
Revising. 

803
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,300
Some of that if you're doing 
these crazy extremes on each in 

804
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:29,100
the Spectrum. 
Oh yeah. 

805
00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:31,500
You hear guys, talk about how 
they get so heavy and that their

806
00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:33,700
sleep goes to shit and their 
appetite goes to shit. 

807
00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:35,600
And you're like, okay, you're 
now starting to pull from the 

808
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,400
fundamentals of this whole 
thing, right? 

809
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,900
Like we have food training and 
sleep and if you're now, you 

810
00:41:41,908 --> 00:41:46,400
know, wrecking, two of those 
things, then maybe don't need to

811
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,700
be that heavy, right? 
Like I never done, you know, my 

812
00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:53,800
quote unquote off Seasons before
like before 2019, we're just 

813
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,800
like Like I would gain weight to
where I felt comfortable. 

814
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,000
Again, I would just wait till I 
prepped again, right? 

815
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,700
So at the time, it was probably 
like 170 to 175 and then I would

816
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:08,700
just die it again and then the 
offseason before this prep, I 

817
00:42:08,707 --> 00:42:12,000
was like, okay I'm going to 
actively try to get a bit 

818
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,200
heavier. 
So once I got to like, you know,

819
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:20,300
this way 25-ish, then I had to 
start, you know, consciously 

820
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:26,100
eating more and then once once I
got to 200, like I I felt I felt

821
00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:30,200
that like the negative effects 
from it, and, you know, you get 

822
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,300
people that say, oh, you need to
get uncomfortable and, you know,

823
00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:34,400
offseason, you need to push up 
and all that kind of stuff. 

824
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,800
And there's definitely some 
Merit to it, but there has to 

825
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,800
be, also, some, like, 
intelligent behind that with 

826
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,500
regards to what? 
That's affecting outside of the 

827
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,500
scale, right? 
Like I could feel, you know, 

828
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:50,600
being lethargic in the gym. 
I was strong, but, you know, I 

829
00:42:50,607 --> 00:42:54,900
wasn't moving that great. 
Like, I just felt Heavy, right? 

830
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:59,300
And for some people like that 
might sound not too bad, but at 

831
00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:05,100
200 pounds at 57, like I felt I 
felt that whereas now, I still 

832
00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:08,000
feel good right here, right? 
Like I train good, I sleep, good

833
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,300
appetites good, you know 
everything. 

834
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,900
You know realistically from a 
muscle building standpoint is in

835
00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:17,300
a good spot. 
So then you know, I step back 

836
00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:20,600
and think, okay, do I need, do I
need to do another huge push 

837
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,100
like that. 
I haven't quite determined that.

838
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,300
If I do it would be a very, very
slow rate. 

839
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,500
And I don't have any intentions 
of actively trying to get 

840
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:35,900
heavier until next year after we
go away in the fall and December

841
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:36,800
there. 
Yeah. 

842
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,900
I feel like there's definitely a
point of diminishing returns. 

843
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:42,400
I mean, you're not going to, you
need to be in a surplus to 

844
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,400
optimize for muscle building. 
But once you kind of hit that 

845
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,000
Tipping Point like an increase 
in calories and body fat is not 

846
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,900
going to directly correlate to 
an increase in lean tissue. 

847
00:43:50,900 --> 00:43:52,900
Like there is that point of 
diminishing returns and then you

848
00:43:52,908 --> 00:43:55,500
start like if your 
cardiovascular System start 

849
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:57,500
suffering. 
Like if you're doing a plus 

850
00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:00,900
pounds and you get winded on 
your third rep of squats, then 

851
00:44:00,900 --> 00:44:04,100
that's going to hinder your 
ability, to get the volume and 

852
00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:05,900
the intense that you're looking 
for with the resistance running.

853
00:44:05,900 --> 00:44:09,000
So there's definitely no benefit
and going and pushing it to that

854
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,400
extreme. 
Not exactly. 

855
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,500
Yeah, and I just, I think from a
lifestyle perspective to like, I

856
00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:19,100
just feel better here. 
I've felt, you know, I, we're 

857
00:44:19,107 --> 00:44:21,600
just this to say, like, I felt 
fat before, right? 

858
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,300
So, you know, your bye-bye, gen 
pop standards, you're not fat, 

859
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:31,200
but if you don't feel good about
yourself, then, you know, 

860
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,500
there's probably some Merit to 
you, not making the progress 

861
00:44:33,500 --> 00:44:35,100
that you potentially could wear 
as now. 

862
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:38,400
Like, you know, when I go in the
gym, I got a pump, I guess, I 

863
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,600
feel big like a feel like a 
million bucks, right? 

864
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,100
So that's That's probably going 
to translate into something 

865
00:44:44,100 --> 00:44:46,900
positive. 
Totally man, when it comes to 

866
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:49,300
training and you know, what 
you're doing in the gym. 

867
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,100
How do you typically structure 
that are you doing like a like a

868
00:44:53,107 --> 00:44:54,100
body part? 
Split? 

869
00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:56,400
Are you doing like full bonded? 
Like how do you structure that 

870
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:02,500
typically Right now. 
So, I like after I got done my 

871
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:05,100
season, you know, I had a call 
with cliff and was like, okay, 

872
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:07,200
what's what needs work now, 
right? 

873
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,600
So before I think I mentioned 
earlier, it was like my back, so

874
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,900
it was basically my posterior 
chain, he was like, you know, we

875
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:15,800
need to bring that up. 
So you're basically from the 

876
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,300
base of your neck, down your 
ankles needs to improve. 

877
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:22,400
So that was like traps back, 
glutes, hamstrings and stuff. 

878
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,800
So my last offseason was very 
focused on that this time. 

879
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,000
Round. 
Yo, I think we kind of agreed 

880
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,100
that my back can still come up 
just because there's so much 

881
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:35,600
muscle back there that you can 
build. 

882
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,600
Right? 
Yeah, you know, the front of 

883
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,600
your body like, like, your abs, 
like, once you've built some 

884
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,900
ABS, you kind of just maintain 
them, you know, your chest can 

885
00:45:42,900 --> 00:45:45,700
be a little bit better and that 
kind of stuff but on your back 

886
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:50,200
there's so much muscularity back
there to develop that for me. 

887
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,300
Anyways, it's something we still
want to work on. 

888
00:45:52,300 --> 00:46:00,300
So my split right now, I do too.
So I start my week on Tuesdays, 

889
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:03,300
I guess I can go to Sunday. 
So Sunday is legs, and it's like

890
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:07,400
kind of my big big leg day. 
So, it's pretty taxing. 

891
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,000
I'm usually pretty pretty sore 
for a couple days after that 

892
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,600
one. 
So I train legs on Sunday, I 

893
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:20,900
rest on Monday, Tuesday is chest
and shoulders with a little bit 

894
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:23,100
of arms because I'm trying to 
bring my arms up, so they get a 

895
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:24,300
little bit of tension on that 
day. 

896
00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:33,000
And then, Wednesday is kind of 
like my posterior chain day so 

897
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,400
that day kind of counts as my 
second leg day because I'll do 

898
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,900
hamstring work, I'll do some 
deadlifting, but then I also do 

899
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:45,200
rose pull-downs and stuff then 
I'll rest after that day because

900
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,900
it's kind of like Sunday. 
It's a pretty taxing session and

901
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:54,000
then I'll do arms on their own, 
which is what I've dabbled into 

902
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,500
now is getting back to, like, a 
full arm day. 

903
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,300
As I've noticed that in certain 
poses, my arms don't look that 

904
00:47:01,300 --> 00:47:04,500
great. 
So I want to bring them up which

905
00:47:04,500 --> 00:47:08,300
is just a product of kind of my 
training before because I fell 

906
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:11,500
into that, you don't need to do 
direct arm work, you know, just 

907
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:14,800
a little bit of, you know, 
triceps after push a little bit 

908
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,000
of biceps after poll, and you'll
be fine and, you know, turns out

909
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,600
for five years later, that's not
the case. 

910
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,900
Now, your arms are kind of 
shitty, so arms get their own 

911
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:28,400
day. 
And then, so that's Friday. 

912
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:35,100
And then Saturday back gets hit 
again from after Wednesday. 

913
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,100
And then we're back to Sunday 
with legs. 

914
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,000
So it's a five days a week to 
rest days. 

915
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:46,300
Positioned after the hard 
sessions I've tried to do too 

916
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:49,100
like, extend it out a little bit
and you know have like a 

917
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:53,200
rotating like eight-day split or
something like that but I don't 

918
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,000
know it just with my Schedule my
lifestyle, it's just easier to 

919
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,400
have a set plan. 
Monday, is this Tuesday? 

920
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,100
This Wednesday's this and just 
kind of run with that, you know,

921
00:48:03,100 --> 00:48:05,700
I did it last offseason or work,
so I'm just going to do it 

922
00:48:05,700 --> 00:48:09,100
again. 
Kind of the biggest difference 

923
00:48:09,100 --> 00:48:13,000
this time around compared to 
last offseason was is now that I

924
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,200
have a direct arm day, and then 
I've kind of scrapped to leg 

925
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,600
days in favor of like a leg day 
in Agra posterior day. 

926
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,900
Yeah, I feel like having a 
dedicated arm day is good. 

927
00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:27,800
Like you feel You feel good in 
the gym, like, it's a, it's an 

928
00:48:27,808 --> 00:48:30,500
intense day, but it's not like 
you're going in and doing a 

929
00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:32,700
bunch of deadlifts or, you know,
squash or something. 

930
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:35,700
Like, it's easier to get psyched
up for an arm day and you can't 

931
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:37,600
really focus on the blood flow 
in the pump. 

932
00:48:38,700 --> 00:48:41,200
But yeah, I think I've recently 
started doing like a standalone 

933
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,000
posterior chain day as well, and
because my lagging body parts 

934
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,500
are hamstrings and chest, like, 
I feel like my back and arms 

935
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:52,500
probably my strong suit and my 
hamstrings and chest are my weak

936
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:54,000
points. 
I'm trying to dedicate more time

937
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,700
to that but The beauty of a man 
like you pick apart your 

938
00:48:56,700 --> 00:48:59,000
physique, you figure out where 
your strong where your week we 

939
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,400
need to bring up and you just 
you know adjust the training 

940
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,000
accordingly are you, are you 
doing like a like a certain rep 

941
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,300
scheme set and rep scheme that 
you typically fall in across the

942
00:49:07,300 --> 00:49:10,700
board with all movements or do 
you mix that up modulate that 

943
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:15,100
quite a bit? 
Yeah, it's pretty varied. 

944
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,900
I'd say a lot of the big stuff 
is kind of a top setback offset,

945
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,800
approached you. 
I like that. 

946
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,600
I like that structure where you 
have a kind of one sets, a lower

947
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,500
rep range, one sets a higher rep
range. 

948
00:49:28,700 --> 00:49:31,100
I'm very pretty Auto regulated 
with how I feel. 

949
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:34,000
So, you know, now that my 
strength starting to come back 

950
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,600
up like, I'm only deadlifting or
right now, like are doing our 

951
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,000
dlls only do one set because if 
I do two, I'm just wrecked. 

952
00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:43,400
Yeah, same with squats like a 
barbell. 

953
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,500
Like I can usually get in one 
good set and then I'm done. 

954
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,700
Like I need I need some 
downtime. 

955
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:51,400
Yeah. 
What else? 

956
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:57,900
Like, The lower lower rep, stuff
is pretty reserved for heavy 

957
00:49:57,900 --> 00:50:01,200
compounds, and then I'll do you 
know, higher up stuff for 

958
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,200
smaller muscle groups, right? 
Like, I'll do lateral, delts 

959
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,800
will get higher rep. 
Ranges. 

960
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:11,100
I like, I like certain exercises
in higher rep ranges in certain 

961
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:13,400
exercises and lower ones. 
I don't think there's a one size

962
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,200
fits all to that, like leg 
extensions for me, if I go too 

963
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,600
heavy on them just murdering my 
knees, right? 

964
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,900
But I can do like a 20 or 30 
rapper, and my quads will just 

965
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:26,200
be screaming, right? 
So it's it's kind of just a 

966
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:29,300
figure it out as you go these 
last couple of years and then 

967
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,400
find out what works and not run 
with it. 

968
00:50:31,700 --> 00:50:34,100
Totally. 
What about nutrition. 

969
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:38,100
Have you have you you fall 
within a certain type of dieting

970
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:39,600
style and went with regards 
nutrition? 

971
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,000
Are you still doing flexible 
dieting to some extent or like 

972
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,400
clean eating? 
And what's your approach to 

973
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:49,500
nutrition? 
On prep, it's a set plan, you 

974
00:50:49,500 --> 00:50:52,300
know, Cliff Cliff gives me 
macros, but then I just created 

975
00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:54,100
meal plan out of it. 
I just, I like that. 

976
00:50:54,100 --> 00:50:57,600
I like to not think about it. 
I like the consistency of it. 

977
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,500
It's just easier for me to track
and, and a mentally be a little 

978
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:06,200
bit Freer from the monotony of 
tracking. 

979
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,000
Yeah, you know, I have some 
clients who they use my fitness 

980
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,200
pal every single day and that's 
what works for them, right? 

981
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,300
There's no right or wrong. 
It's just what works for you and

982
00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:17,500
I know that I know for me, I'm 
not going to be the one sitting 

983
00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:18,800
on my phone trying to punch 
stuff. 

984
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,800
In just give me a plan and I'll 
eat it. 

985
00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:26,000
Yeah, right now I've I still 
have like a, like I said, I have

986
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,800
that kind of meals 125 is pretty
much the same every single day. 

987
00:51:30,900 --> 00:51:37,700
Pretty Whole Food based yo meat 
veggies post-workout, I have you

988
00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:40,100
know oats and a protein shake 
and some fruit. 

989
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:48,300
I'm trying to play around with 
Like a little bit more, I guess 

990
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:53,300
Health side of it, instead of 
just like macros like trying to 

991
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:56,400
dive into the health side of 
things. 

992
00:51:56,900 --> 00:52:00,500
Ray Drew's is a wbff pro who I'm
pretty tight with and he's huge 

993
00:52:00,500 --> 00:52:04,100
on this kind of stuff about like
the vitamins and the minerals 

994
00:52:04,100 --> 00:52:10,600
and you know as much as it is to
get like your carbs from you 

995
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,600
know, one source. 
You know, there's probably some 

996
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,900
air into getting them from a 
couple sources and you know, 

997
00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:19,500
getting good fats in with whole 
eggs and beef and stuff like 

998
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:22,900
that. 
So I'm trying to really dabble 

999
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:26,500
into that side of it. 
I'm not actively tracking. 

1000
00:52:26,500 --> 00:52:29,500
Like I could probably if I sat 
down and could give you a 

1001
00:52:29,500 --> 00:52:31,500
guesstimate, how much my 
calories are there probably 

1002
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:32,900
around. 3,000. 
Yeah. 

1003
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,000
On any given day, how low did 
you go at the depth of your 

1004
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,200
prep? 
The last week of depletion. 

1005
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,400
We were 1400. 
Maybe it's pretty low, man. 

1006
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:48,800
Yeah, it's weird man. 
Like so on the depletion it's 

1007
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,100
basically just like meat veggies
and fat. 

1008
00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:54,500
Yeah, like four days straight 
and the first one, it hurt. 

1009
00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:57,700
But then, by the third time, I 
was used to it, like I wasn't 

1010
00:52:57,700 --> 00:53:01,300
hungry. 
It was so weird and I was doing 

1011
00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:02,700
like, I was doing any cardio 
really. 

1012
00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:07,300
So even even that 1400, sounds 
terrible. 

1013
00:53:07,300 --> 00:53:10,100
But when you're not, Your 
expenditures low. 

1014
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,700
You almost don't feel it. 
Yeah. 

1015
00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:19,600
Where's or I've dieted down to 
the lower you know 14 1500 but I

1016
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,300
was doing like an hour of cardio
a day. 

1017
00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:22,300
Right. 
Right. 

1018
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,400
And so that expenditure like 
then you're hungry. 

1019
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:30,300
I found the last the last week 
or so ago I really like 

1020
00:53:30,300 --> 00:53:33,700
obviously energy and stuff was 
low but like from a hunger 

1021
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:36,400
standpoint of a here that all 
you must've been so hungry like 

1022
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,600
I didn't really feel that bad 
Yeah, I mean it's interesting 

1023
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,000
like talking with people about 
nutrition especially like 

1024
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,900
natural bodybuilding space 
because when I was eating carbs,

1025
00:53:47,700 --> 00:53:51,300
you know, I was doing like the 
depletion phases and I was, I 

1026
00:53:51,308 --> 00:53:54,800
was just manipulating 
carbohydrates and fats, 

1027
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,700
predominately, I'd leave protein
pretty high. 

1028
00:53:56,900 --> 00:54:01,000
But like now, I mean, I've been 
doing keto since 2015 and 

1029
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:02,700
whatever the ones that being. 
So I haven't had a card-based 

1030
00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:06,700
million seven plus years even 
like with peaking and whatnot. 

1031
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:09,200
So it's always interesting for 
me to see How people that are 

1032
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,800
doing, you know, more 
traditional natural bodybuilding

1033
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,300
Style with nutrition, like, how 
they're doing these depletion 

1034
00:54:16,300 --> 00:54:18,800
phases and whatnot and make it 
work for my mean Cliffs of 

1035
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,000
freaking, you know, he's a, he's
killing them. 

1036
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,600
He's got, he's been around for a
long time, he's got this dialed 

1037
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,200
in. 
So for athletes, that are wanted

1038
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,200
to go that route. 
Like he certainly gets him 

1039
00:54:27,207 --> 00:54:31,400
dialed in. 
Yeah, like I could talk about 

1040
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,300
him all day, he's become not 
just a coach, but a very like a 

1041
00:54:35,300 --> 00:54:37,800
good Mentor for me not just 
within the sport but with in 

1042
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,100
life. 
I very much look up to him. 

1043
00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:41,500
I'm sad. 
I haven't been able to meet him 

1044
00:54:41,500 --> 00:54:44,200
yet. 
But yeah. 

1045
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,400
Like he's very smart or so when 
it comes to like the depletion 

1046
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,500
stuff, like I trusted everything
he said and you know, he's like,

1047
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:53,200
okay, we're going to do, you 
know, no carbs for five days and

1048
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,500
then you're going to do 800 on 
the day before the show and 

1049
00:54:55,500 --> 00:54:58,500
lunch like, okay? 
Like whatever you say I'm going 

1050
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:00,500
to do it and you know it worked,
right? 

1051
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:02,100
Like you know what he's doing 
now. 

1052
00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:03,300
Totally man. 
That's awesome. 

1053
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:08,100
When it comes to what you get, I
know you get your gym times 

1054
00:55:08,100 --> 00:55:09,300
coming. 
Assuming I want to be 

1055
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:11,700
respectful, I don't want to cut 
into your training time at all. 

1056
00:55:11,700 --> 00:55:15,100
But when it comes to what you're
what you got going on in the 

1057
00:55:15,100 --> 00:55:17,800
future, you know, you got your 
next projected show date, and 

1058
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,500
2025 potentially what sketch 
excited to Mean Time. 

1059
00:55:21,500 --> 00:55:25,200
And you've got said, you'd get 
your anniversary coming up. 

1060
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,600
What's in the pipeline for us? 
Catch it. 

1061
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:28,700
Excited to wake up in the 
morning. 

1062
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:32,000
Yeah, just a lot of Life stuff 
now, right? 

1063
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,400
Like I so so I coach, right? 
So, I have athletes on stage, 

1064
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,300
you know, I'd for on stage this 
past weekend. 

1065
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:40,800
I've got it's competing every 
month up until the end of the 

1066
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,200
year. 
Yeah, we just did a like, as 

1067
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,200
soon as prep ended, we started a
pretty substantial house 

1068
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,600
renovation. 
So, for those that have been 

1069
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,600
following along with that, 
you've seen what's going on 

1070
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,200
there. 
So we kind of overhauled the 

1071
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,400
whole main floor of our house 
which has been, which has been 

1072
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,900
fun. 
So, you know that and then we 

1073
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:03,800
have our anniversaries on the 
27th of this month. 

1074
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,000
So we're celebrating our 
one-year wedding anniversary, 

1075
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,800
which is cool. 
And then we're headed You, 

1076
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:12,400
Mexico and December. 
We're hoping to pop over to 

1077
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,000
Vegas, to go to the Olympia 
after that, which will be cool. 

1078
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,000
And yeah, man, just just 
navigating life, you know, 

1079
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,600
probably looking to start a 
family sometime next year. 

1080
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:29,000
So you know, leaving leaving the
stage for a little bit is, is is

1081
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,200
exciting and different ways. 
Totally man, we just had our 

1082
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,300
first kid 12 weeks ago. 
Now I guess so, hey congrats. 

1083
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:38,200
Yeah, I appreciate it, man. 
It's pretty freaking awesome. 

1084
00:56:38,300 --> 00:56:41,500
Like I was, I don't know what 
word I would use to describe it,

1085
00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:43,900
but I like I'm an entrepreneur, 
I'm business-oriented. 

1086
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:46,800
Like I'm ambitious that I do the
bodybuilding like I didn't know 

1087
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:52,300
how having a kid would impact 
these passions of mine and I 

1088
00:56:52,300 --> 00:56:56,500
would never want to use having a
kid is like a an excuse to not 

1089
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:58,700
pursue them with the intensity 
that like to pursue things. 

1090
00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:01,700
But since having the kid and in 
your body butter, like you 

1091
00:57:01,707 --> 00:57:05,000
probably the same entire like 
Taipei, like you like to do 

1092
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,900
things with intensity. 
But man, let me tell you having 

1093
00:57:07,900 --> 00:57:09,500
a kid. 
Is freaking awesome. 

1094
00:57:09,500 --> 00:57:13,800
Like it's like you just want to 
be better for their sake and 

1095
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,700
your own and if you want to be a
good, a good role model, you 

1096
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:19,600
want to be able to see you, want
your kid to see you doing hard 

1097
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,900
things and excelling at it. 
So, I'm excited for that for 

1098
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:24,600
you, man. 
I appreciate that. 

1099
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:29,700
Yeah, it's helped one of life's 
biggest challenges so I'm 

1100
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:31,800
excited to take it on. 
Thank you, brother. 

1101
00:57:31,900 --> 00:57:35,000
Heck yeah, Willie Roman been a 
pleasure chatting with you. 

1102
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,200
I love what you're doing with it
with the sport, getting the word

1103
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,600
out about natural bodybuilding. 
If there's ever anything I can 

1104
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,900
do, I mean, that is also a big 
passion of mine, so definitely 

1105
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:43,600
hit me up. 
Let me know. 

1106
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,600
I'm happy to help in any way, 
shape, or form possible, man 

1107
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,300
because I appreciate what you're
doing and I want to help help 

1108
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:51,700
spread the word. 
Thanks man, I appreciate that. 

1109
00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:54,100
Means a lot you bet man take it 
where people go to find out more

1110
00:57:54,100 --> 00:57:56,200
about you Instagrams. 
Probably your best bet. 

1111
00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:59,000
Yeah. 
Instagram it's just Leroy 

1112
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,300
underscore Roland's underscore 
Fitness obviously. 

1113
00:58:02,300 --> 00:58:05,400
Now D News, Daily is the the 
other page where we share the 

1114
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,600
natural bodybuilding stuff. 
YouTube, I'm I documented prep 

1115
00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:11,800
extensively on YouTube. 
It did a great job with that, 

1116
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,500
but I've fell off that once prep
ended because I don't really 

1117
00:58:14,500 --> 00:58:17,600
know what else to talk about. 
So I'm trying to I'm trying to 

1118
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,000
get back on YouTube. 
We did last two weeks, we've got

1119
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,700
a video up at least of some 
training stuff. 

1120
00:58:23,700 --> 00:58:28,400
So I'm trying to. 
But, you know, I struggle with 

1121
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,200
figuring out what to talk about 
because the offseason is nowhere

1122
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,300
near as exciting because it's 
like, oh I'm eating this and I'm

1123
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:36,500
working out and then I'm eating 
and sleeping. 

1124
00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:39,400
So hey it's not exciting man but
I feel like that side of the 

1125
00:58:39,408 --> 00:58:42,100
equation needs to be talked 
about because so many people and

1126
00:58:42,100 --> 00:58:44,600
I run into this all the time and
with my clients and just people 

1127
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,700
in the community, they don't 
understand the importance of a 

1128
00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:50,300
proper reverse diet of a proper 
building phase of being in a 

1129
00:58:50,308 --> 00:58:53,200
maintenance or Surplus for more 
time, they're in a deficit. 

1130
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,600
So I feel like there's a massive
hole in the market in the in the

1131
00:58:56,900 --> 00:58:59,300
information for people to dive 
deeper into that. 

1132
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,700
Yeah, yeah. 
So I'm trying to I'm trying to 

1133
00:59:01,707 --> 00:59:03,800
get you to but Instagram is my 
main one. 

1134
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,700
I'm a pretty pretty prominent on
Instagram with regards to not 

1135
00:59:07,700 --> 00:59:09,900
only my own Stuff. 
But with clients and stuff. 

1136
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:11,900
So awesome. 
Well, I will certainly link into

1137
00:59:11,900 --> 00:59:13,200
that. 
Make it easy for people to find 

1138
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:14,600
you. 
Keep killing a man. 

1139
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:15,900
Keep doing exactly what you 
doing, brother. 

1140
00:59:16,700 --> 00:59:19,400
Thank you, man, appreciate it. 
You better take care about 

1141
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:19,800
bye-bye.