1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,680 Talk to me about your competitive history because 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,200 you're like a freaking rock star. 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:10,800 You're three time world champ. So it's 2016 eight and then 21. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,160 You know, I've been competing in Oregon. 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,720 That's the only place I've lived and competed, and in Oregon, NPC 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,800 is huge and that's the only thing I knew of. 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,160 So I just competed just for the heck of it. 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:27,000 And then I think in 2015 somebody said, hey, you should 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,040 compete naturally, and I thought, what's that mean? 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,759 I looked it up and I found the WNBF. 11 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:36,160 That's the first year that I competed with the WNBF and it's 12 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:37,960 just been heaven ever since then. 13 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,400 Feel like the level of conditioning for the natural 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,680 athletes at that world's competition is far and above 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,880 that of the conditioning. And just like the like the truly 16 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,560 dense muscle of those in the IFBB league. 17 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,760 Their bodies are just trashed out and they just can't. 18 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,400 They don't function like they used to because they put so much 19 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,760 wear and tear on it. And we are live. 20 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,240 Lisa, how are you today? I am good. 21 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:03,400 Thanks, Robert. How are you? 22 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,239 I'm good, I'm good. It's been. 23 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:06,840 When was the last time we saw each other? 24 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,880 Was it Aaron's show? I think so. 25 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,240 It's been almost almost a year it seems. 26 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,240 That's a lot. You get anything in the 27 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,080 pipeline, you're a promoter. This would be your first year 28 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,000 promoting, right? It's my first year promoting in 29 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:24,520 Portland, the very first WNBF in Portland and Natural Show in 30 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,480 Portland. So I'm pretty excited. 31 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,840 It's going to be September 20th right here in a little place 32 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,920 called Multnomah Village. So excited. 33 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,760 Not a lot of entries yet, so a little nervous about that. 34 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,640 But the idea this year is just getting the word out that there 35 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,600 is a natural federation, everybody's welcome, so we'll 36 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,640 see how. I'm, I'm super excited for you. 37 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,800 And what's you it's crazy is you're gonna be judging my show 38 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,640 a week later. So like, I don't know how you're 39 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,040 gonna, you're gonna be so sleep deprived and ready for a nap 40 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:55,880 after all this. Well, I know. 41 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,400 And then you volunteered. You said that you would show up 42 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,440 for my show and I totally appreciate that. 43 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,480 However, your show is the week after mine and so I thought Nah, 44 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,760 not a good idea on your part. But thank you. 45 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,199 I really appreciate the offer. Oh, for sure, for sure. 46 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,120 I definitely want to talk about the show, promoting and all all 47 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,160 of that good stuff. What made you, you know, want to 48 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,040 do that? But before we even touch on 49 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,080 that, talk to me about your competitive history because 50 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,600 you're like a freaking rock star. 51 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,600 You're three time world champ. Yes, I got lucky three times. 52 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,000 So you know, I've been competing in Oregon. 53 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,720 That's the only place I've lived and competed. 54 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,720 And in Oregon, NPC is huge and that's the only thing I knew of. 55 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,040 So I just competed just for the heck of it. 56 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,880 And then I think in 2015, somebody said, hey, you should 57 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,960 compete naturally. And I thought, what's that mean? 58 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,400 So I googled it, I looked it up and I found the WNBF and I 59 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,120 reached out to John Nickerson, another promoter from the 60 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,520 Northwest, and I said, hey, can you tell me more about it? 61 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,760 And so he we met and he said, OK, you're going to do this 62 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,320 show, this show and this show. And I said, OK. 63 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,040 And so that was in 2016. I did a show in April, got my 64 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,160 pro card, luckily. Then I went to Sacramento and 65 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,400 competed there as a pro so that I could compete at Worlds in LA 66 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,120 that year in 2016 as a pro. So I just followed my 67 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,560 directions. He said, do this and I said, OK. 68 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,720 And then that's the first year that I competed with the WNBA, 69 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,400 and it's just been heaven ever since then. 70 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:29,400 It's been fun, it's been awesome. 71 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:32,520 And did you, did you win Worlds that first year? 72 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,320 I did. I was, you know, like I said, 73 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,160 you just never know who's going to show up. 74 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,640 So you show up with the best package you can and everything 75 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,240 falls into place at that time. But you know, just that one 76 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,320 particular day at that hour that I was on stage, I was the lucky 77 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,920 1 to be chosen. So you know you put in the work. 78 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,560 Just see what happens. So what years were was it that 79 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,800 you that you won your 3 worlds titles? 80 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,680 So it's 2016, eighteen and then 21. 81 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,640 Nice, nice. And you competed again in 23 82 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,120 because you and I were backstage together. 83 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,840 Yes, I did. So I competed every year. 84 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,920 Didn't win every year. I mean, but you know, placed I 85 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,440 think top three for those years. So 23 I placed, I was second, 86 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,040 and then in 24 was my last year, I was third. 87 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,680 And so, you know, when it goes first, second, third, you kind 88 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,160 of think maybe it's time for me to get out. 89 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,560 But it's been so great meeting all the people, seeing and 90 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,320 having conversations with you backstage. 91 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,320 That was really fun. And I think who was with us, 92 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,840 Russ? Yeah, I believe so. 93 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Yeah, I mean, we were waiting in line forever for something and 94 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,080 so we just started conversation, which was really good and I'm so 95 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,800 glad I met you 'cause now we get to see each other at different 96 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,040 events, so. I know, I know. 97 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,520 MM Hmm. What were you doing bodybuilding 98 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,520 in the NPC prior to going into the Natural Federation? 99 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,360 Yeah, I was. I was only a bodybuilder back in 100 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,120 the day when I started. I think it was in the late 90s. 101 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,400 There was only woman's bodybuilding. 102 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,720 That's all there was. So you went to a bodybuilding 103 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,680 show, There were men bodybuilders and female 104 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,880 bodybuilders and that was it. No bikini, no figure, no 105 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,120 nothing. So I started as a bodybuilder 106 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,320 and just stayed. I tried Fit Body one year. 107 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,040 Epic fail. Epic fail. 108 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,680 One thing with the high heels. Oh my goodness, I'm so. 109 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,680 I'm so happy that I stood upright the whole time. 110 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,360 Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that didn't work for 111 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:27,640 me. So just a bodybuilder? 112 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,680 What was your motivation for for getting into the sport to begin 113 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:32,680 with? Like how old were you when you 114 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,360 started lifting weights? You know, I was active when I 115 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,480 was younger and I think I played college sports. 116 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,560 But then after college, you know how you just kind of fall off 117 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,440 the fitness wagon, right? Everybody just kind of gets a 118 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,680 life, gets a job. And so I was getting these 119 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,760 really awful migraine headaches like almost 2, three times a 120 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,480 month, and it would just knock me out completely. 121 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,400 So one day I was like, I need to get some air. 122 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,480 So I started walking around outside and it kind of went 123 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,880 away. So then I thought, well, maybe I 124 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,280 just need to keep moving. And then I joined a gym and I 125 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:09,240 just started small little exercise things and I haven't 126 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,000 had a migraine since mid 90s I think. 127 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,720 And then a friend of mine was doing a show, so I went to watch 128 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,880 and I just sat there and went, oh, I so wanna do this. 129 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:26,240 And I think my first show was 1996 and I, I was £130 to start 130 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,000 off with. And I think I dieted down to 131 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,840 108. People were calling my mom and 132 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,200 saying what's wrong with her? I think she's sick. 133 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,840 So, and then after that, you know, you just kind of, so this 134 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:40,720 is my story too, is that after you compete, you gain lots of 135 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,960 weight and then you compete again, you lose lots of weight, 136 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,560 then you do this and this and it's so hard on the body. 137 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,440 And after my when I turned 40 or so, I just said, you know what, 138 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:50,600 I'm not going to do this anymore. 139 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,760 So I just kind of hover now at the at this weight or I'm at 140 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,320 comfortable. So you were never like 141 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,600 overweight before competing, right? 142 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,360 Like that was never your story. I was a kind of when I was in 143 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:08,000 college I so I'm 53 and I weighed 150 lbs, which is not 144 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,240 obesely overweight, but it was chunky. 145 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,800 I would call it chunky in that time. 146 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,640 And then when I started work and I just got, I lost weight 147 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,040 because I would get sick all the time. 148 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,320 I, I'm a school teacher. I was a school teacher. 149 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,480 So those kids bring everything into the room and I would get 150 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,400 sick all the time. So I lost some weight there, but 151 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,680 pretty much stayed at about 130, which is not thin and I wasn't 152 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,640 fit. But starting that exercise 153 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,040 program and then it just progressed from working out to 154 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,760 actually trying to compete and so on and off. 155 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,200 I've probably done over 40 shows in my lifetime now, which is not 156 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,960 a lot compared to some people. It's a lot of shows, pretty 157 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,040 shows a lot. Of shows, Yeah, well, but I'm, 158 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,360 I'm 62 now, so my last show was 24. 159 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,960 I was 61 at my last show. So, you know, it's all about the 160 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,400 long haul, right? The longevity of the sport. 161 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,160 Playing the long game is key. I keep telling that to everybody 162 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,560 I come in contact. That's why I love natural 163 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,840 bodybuilding, because like, there's such an emphasis on the 164 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,880 long haul. With natural bodybuilding, you 165 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,440 don't really get you don't really get that conversation in 166 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,840 the untested federations at all. Yeah, it's all about the win 167 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,200 right near, right here, right now. 168 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,320 So everything is immediate when you're taking something because 169 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,640 they wanted it yesterday. So they have no patience and it 170 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,240 takes a while to put on that muscle, I tell you. 171 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,080 Yes, it does. So what? 172 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,159 What? What subject in grade were you 173 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:35,240 teaching? I taught elementary special Ed 174 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:40,440 for 30 years, same school, and then I decided to retire after 175 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,880 30 and then I went back and substituted for the next 7 years 176 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,840 still at the same school because the teachers got pregnant or you 177 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,280 know, there was just a leave or something. 178 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:54,160 So for 37 years, special Ed. Were all the elementary school 179 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,040 school kids jealous of how jacked you are throughout all 180 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,240 the competitive seasons? Some of them, but you know, it's 181 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,560 it's odd because people look at me differently because they 182 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:08,240 don't see a lot of women with muscles in their culture. 183 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,440 So we had, you know, a diverse population and people would look 184 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,040 at me like something was not right because they weren't used 185 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:17,920 to seeing women with with muscles. 186 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,520 And so, yeah, I get that. Oh, you're jacked. 187 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,560 Kind of comments from the young kids, but you look, it's not as 188 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,840 much I. Mean, I remember one, one year, 189 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:27,720 how was that a show? You were judging. 190 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,080 You were, I don't know if you were the head judge or or one of 191 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,600 the assistant judges, but you were judging and I was in a row 192 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,120 or two behind you. My my mom was watching that 193 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,920 competition. So maybe I had competed and then 194 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:43,800 stepped off stage and went to go sit next to her and she kept 195 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,520 looking at you and she's like, man, I want calves like she's 196 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:47,600 got and I'm like, yeah, that's Lisa. 197 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:51,720 She's a freaking rock star. And so, you know, that's all 198 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,200 about it's like just kind of living the lifestyle and 199 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,120 encouraging others that it doesn't matter where you start 200 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,600 and, and whatever is your journey to be the best person, 201 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,240 you know, the best that you can be. 202 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,800 And so it just takes time. And I just especially at the 203 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,280 gym, I want to be like that. I said, well, you got a couple 204 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,320 of years, so just keep, just keep going, just keep 205 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,520 progressing. It's just the consistency. 206 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,240 So hopefully that people see me and I'm a natural role model for 207 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,760 them and they know that they can achieve things without any help, 208 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,440 it just takes time. So that's what's so cool about 209 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,640 your story and your physique and just how you done things. 210 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,920 I mean you compete in bodybuilding, which people 211 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,760 typically just assume or you know, really muscle, heavily 212 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,400 muscled and just massive and you're not massive, but like 213 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,320 you're put together like a body butter like you have like it 214 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,920 wouldn't make sense me seeing you in a bikini category like 215 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:43,800 you. I try to. 216 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,880 It doesn't work. Yeah, yeah, you look like a 217 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,960 bodybuilder, but you're not like this overwhelmingly large figure 218 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,520 like you. You flow and you're a very 219 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,320 aesthetic and it's all healthy. It's all natural. 220 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,520 And you don't have these crazy shifts anymore, you know, 221 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,560 between offseason and in season and, you know, massive 50 LB 222 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:04,760 swings. What what was that journey like? 223 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,000 Because that's something that often times goes unspoken in the 224 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,080 bodybuilding realms. But most competitors have some 225 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,920 form of disordered eating. They'll have these really sloppy 226 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,920 building phases. I did that my first couple 227 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,600 years. Like we're all guilty of it at 228 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,040 some point. But like, how did you break free 229 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,360 of that negative downward spiral? 230 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,760 Oh, gosh, it and it took, it took a long time because you 231 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,040 know, you just want to eat everything. 232 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,720 I would make lists. I would, I would scour through 233 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,520 cookbooks and all these bad foods and things that I wanted 234 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,240 to eat. But every time I did that, I 235 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,360 felt horrible. You just feel horrible. 236 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,040 You gain 15 lbs in like a couple of weeks and you're just bloated 237 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,160 and you just don't feel good. And then so it really plays a 238 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,520 trick on your mental stability, right? 239 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,240 So I, I would go into a depression after every show 240 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,200 because I wouldn't look like I did on stage the weekend before. 241 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,680 And I still get a little, you know, mental when I look in the 242 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:59,600 mirror and go, oh, goodness gracious. 243 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:02,440 But I, I just said, you know what? 244 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:03,680 I'm not going to do this anymore. 245 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,920 And I just watched my eating. So I did the reverse diet 246 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,600 without calling it a reverse diet and I just minimize all the 247 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,200 extra junk food things. And so I kind of stabilized and 248 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,000 then after that it was easy, but it took a few years for me to 249 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,640 get to that point. And so now after, you know, 250 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,880 after the shows, we have the judges feedback. 251 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,960 And I tell people, I tell everybody, be careful of the 252 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,840 reverse dieting. Be careful of the depression 253 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,240 that you may go through because nobody tells them that. 254 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:35,840 Everyone's like, yeah, go ahead and eat whatever you want and 255 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,200 just, you know, gain some weight, gain some muscle. 256 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,920 I said, well, don't dirty bulk, which everybody does. 257 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,760 Like, oh, I'm going to put on 20 lbs, Like, well, that's just 258 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,320 fat. So stop doing that. 259 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,800 Put on some good muscle, eat good and then when you prepare 260 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,240 for your next show, it's not so hard. 261 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,160 You won't have to lose 40 lbs, you might have to lose 20 and 262 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,520 the dieting or the prep, whatever they call it is is 263 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,680 easy. And then when it becomes the 264 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,120 lifestyle, then you don't have to worry it at all. 265 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,400 Totally, totally. And I feel like a lot of 266 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,760 federations and promoters don't really help in that regard 267 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,360 because they'll have like treats and stuff backstage for them to 268 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,040 eat after they step off, you know, the final call. 269 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,920 And it's like, well, we're just kind of like feeding into that 270 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,960 negative feedback loop. And I mean, I did that for like 271 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,120 several years. My first show, I lost 80 lbs in 272 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,240 12 weeks. And then I went out to eat and I 273 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,840 gained it all back. Not all of it, but I, I gained 274 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,680 24 lbs in 24 hours with the celebratory meal afterwards. 275 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,880 And I felt terrible, super sick. And then I was like binging and 276 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,280 purging for years. And it's like, that's no way to 277 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,280 live. And there's got to be a better 278 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,880 way. But that that never really gets 279 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,080 talked about openly. So. 280 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,600 It's important. It's important. 281 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,800 I think they're getting better about it because other people, 282 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,280 you know, they're doing it, people are doing it now. 283 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:55,960 So they're doing that reverse diet. 284 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,680 They're really being more mindful about how your body 285 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,920 adjusts to it because it's not healthy for one. 286 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,680 And then you go into that cyclical, physical, emotional 287 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:08,880 kind of spiral down that drain. And so I think more people are 288 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,520 talking about it now than before, but still not nearly 289 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,640 enough. So what I'm thinking now, I got 290 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,280 to thinking about that this morning after my show. 291 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,160 I'm going to offer like a, just like a counseling, kind of a, 292 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,720 just like a feedback session for the things that you may go 293 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,760 through after a show. So I think that would be a good 294 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,680 service for for other people to do. 295 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,960 So if it works out, then I'll like cue you in on it. 296 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,760 And so you can do it after your show too, right? 297 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,760 But I'm going to be taking notes for sure. 298 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,600 Yeah, it's all about really, it's all about the education. 299 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,880 Like people are cutting, they're not drinking water, they're not 300 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,120 doing this because that's what they've heard or that's what 301 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,600 Siri says or, or that's what YouTube says. 302 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,520 I'm like, no, you just need to eat. 303 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,200 You need to feed the body, you need to fuel the body. 304 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,600 So I'll a lot of misconceptions out there still and it's just 305 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,480 with education and finding a good trainer and nutritionist. 306 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,440 So I know you do both right. Yeah, yeah. 307 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,520 I mean, education around nutrition is my wheelhouse from 308 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,560 a ketogenic standpoint. Like I, I did the standard 309 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,600 American, you know, flexible dieting approach for my first 310 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,320 several shows. And I went keto to kind of beat 311 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,480 these disorder eating tendencies that I was struggling with. 312 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,600 And I've just been keto ever since for competitions as well. 313 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,440 And you follow more of a, a mix down. 314 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,960 Like you're having, you know, all macro nutrients, but you're 315 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,000 doing very healthy, you're taking a very healthy approach 316 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,240 to it. Like you're eating Whole Foods, 317 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,800 you're eating real nutrient dense stuff. 318 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,080 You're not eating a bunch of junk food, and you're doing not. 319 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,120 During prep season in the offseason is a different story. 320 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,880 You probably don't let yourself go too, too far off off center 321 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,080 because I mean, you still have, I mean, you're not like 50 lbs 322 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:42,840 overweight right now. Oh. 323 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,520 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I try to to level off. 324 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,240 I could probably maybe between 8 and 10 lbs off of stage weight 325 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:52,840 just because I'm comfortable there. 326 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,360 But I'll, I'll allow myself trees. 327 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,520 I I'm a big chip fan and ice cream. 328 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,480 So you know, that goes in a vicious cycle. 329 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,760 But my foods are good and, and I just try to stay. 330 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,120 I can, you know, you look in the mirror. 331 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,920 I don't ever get on the scale. I don't count calories and I 332 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,840 don't count macros. I weigh my food because all that 333 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,440 other information is just too much for me. 334 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,800 So I weigh my food. I know exactly how much I'm 335 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,280 eating pretty much. And so I it's easy for me 336 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,400 because it's what I do all the time and so it doesn't change 337 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,160 when I get ready for a show. I just cut out the extra junk 338 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,880 food and the sauces. I love sauce, so everything on 339 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,360 my food is sauce. But yeah, and I just, I can cut 340 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,520 down on this. So I could actually get ready 341 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,360 for a show in four to five weeks if I really wanted to. 342 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,960 How? Do you, how do you structure 343 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,960 your nutrition with taking the mix that approach like if you're 344 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,520 not tracking calories or macros, but you're weighing everything 345 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,880 out, so all that's getting accounted for even if you are 346 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,520 not measuring it out necessarily. 347 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,040 Do you have any idea kind of how much more you're eating in a 348 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,520 building phase versus the cutting phase? 349 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,839 Are you gradually tapering your intake that entire cut, or are 350 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:09,160 you just dropping it to a lower intake and then holding that 351 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,720 stable? Like how do you typically go 352 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,359 about it? So here's the thing, and this is 353 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,599 pretty much why I I decided to stop. 354 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,800 I look back and I have never really been in a building phase. 355 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,040 So I I train hard. I always train as hard as I can. 356 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,760 Even now, you know, it's harder now because I'm older, my body 357 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,640 is a little bit broken down, but I never like ate excess calories 358 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,360 to try and build muscle. And so in the years, the past 359 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,080 eight years, my muscle mass has probably declined a little bit 360 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,360 every year just because I'm not pushing that boundary anymore. 361 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,880 So I've just been in, I guess, a maintenance phase as far as 362 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,880 eating and and working out everything, pushing as hard as I 363 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,040 can, but not pushing to gain size. 364 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,840 It's because I'm comfortable where I'm at, but it's not 365 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,560 enough anywhere. So that's why I thought, OK, I'm 366 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,200 not going to compete. But as far as neutral nutrition, 367 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,360 so I'll eat the same things pretty much. 368 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,560 I worked with the nutritionist Leo King from in Canada. 369 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:11,320 He I think was in 22 or 23 when I started having him do my 370 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,280 nutrition plan. And so he gave me a plan and I 371 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,880 just stay on that plan now. I mean, I just do the measuring 372 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,160 of how much, how much things weigh, the proportions of 373 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:26,720 protein, carbs and fats. And then I can eat vegetables as 374 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,000 much as I want. So I stay with that plan and all 375 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,720 the way up until the show, I would stay with that plan but 376 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,000 clean it up. So less sauce every week and 377 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,640 then until like the last two weeks I would use no sauces, 378 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,040 which is fine. You know, BBQ sauce and stuff is 379 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,240 not that much. And then at times before the 380 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,720 last two weeks, I would actually increase my calories. 381 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,920 So I would almost increase my calories the last two weeks a 382 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,400 little bit at a time just to keep full because my body was 383 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,440 still losing even though I was eating the same amount. 384 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,440 And so I would just maintain it and, and fill up towards the 385 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,360 show. Whereas it's opposite where 386 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:08,000 people cut down more. But my workout stayed this. 387 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,680 Everything stayed the same except for the extra sugar, 388 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,680 sauces and things like. That so yeah, it's like the the 389 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,480 staples food wise, like chicken, rice, broccoli, like that kind 390 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,200 of stuff. Chicken. 391 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,960 So I'll eat like oatmeal, I love my oatmeal with a protein powder 392 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,160 for breakfast. And then I'll have chicken and 393 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,000 rice and vegetables and meat and riten vegetables and then Turkey 394 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,640 and sweet potatoes and vegetables. 395 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,320 So probably 4 to 5 meals a day of of a variety of things. 396 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:44,480 Chicken breast, Turkey, ground Turkey and then petite sirloin. 397 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,440 So, you know, meat. I didn't watch the fat as much, 398 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,440 but I knew that in chicken breast and ground Turkey, you're 399 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:53,800 really not getting all that much fat. 400 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Yeah, so. But yeah, totally opposite of 401 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,680 mine with the high fat. I've been doing like 400 grams 402 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,320 of fat these past couple weeks on an experiment so just crazy. 403 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,080 And then so that's the thing I worry about about people who are 404 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,480 doing the keto with not as much knowledge as you is that they 405 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,800 think they can just eat any kind of fat and things. 406 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,240 Is that bad for the body as far as well? 407 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,520 You gotta, I mean, you want to make sure you're still consuming 408 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,840 quality fats like I'm going to be doing, you know, quality 409 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,560 animal fats, olive oil, avocado oil, like I'm not going to be 410 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,960 getting all my fat from, you know, cotton. 411 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,760 Sea oil or cheese? Yeah, stuff like that. 412 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,520 But like, I get my blood work drawn on a super regular basis 413 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,520 too. And like with this experiment, I 414 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,840 increased my fats like literally doubled and all of my 415 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,760 cholesterol markers actually improved. 416 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,160 So it was kind of interesting to see that unfold for sure. 417 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,760 Yeah, that's kind of like eating more and still losing weight, 418 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,600 but you're doing it scientifically and you're doing 419 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,280 it monitoring everything. Whereas people is like I said, 420 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,640 it's the education part. They're just doing it because 421 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,800 it's the fad thing. Oh, I'm going to go keto this 422 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,400 week, but you don't know anything about keto. 423 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,080 You know you need to do the research first. 424 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,560 So even with bodybuilding, I want to do a show. 425 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,480 Well, OK, I'm just going to not eat carbs and everybody goes no 426 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:08,760 carbs. It's like then you have 0 427 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,960 energy. So, you know, it's a lot of 428 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,800 education and I'm not quite sure how to get it out there. 429 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,840 The good thing about it is this year I have, well, this is my 430 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,920 first year. I have a lot of teenagers. 431 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:22,600 So a friend of mine is like a coach, a conditioning coach. 432 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,840 And so he's sending a lot of his kids my way, which is good 433 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,920 because they're seeing that there's, there's a way to do 434 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,840 things without having to take any kind of substances. 435 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,520 So that's yeah. Yeah, the the youth is super 436 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,120 important. Like I was invited to speak at 437 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,280 the local high school football team the other day. 438 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,520 We, I put them through a workout and I was talking to him about 439 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,840 nutrition and I'm like, this is the way to do it. 440 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,120 Because normally, you know, I'll get clients or, you know, older 441 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,120 people that have already kind of made a bunch of mistakes and 442 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,600 they're trying to get healthy after they've let themselves go. 443 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,200 But like, you know, targeting the people that are, you know, 444 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,200 early, early teenagers, it's like, let's catch them when 445 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,640 they're young. That way they kind of have the 446 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,080 right trajectory right out the gate. 447 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,400 Exactly. It's like a proactive way, kind 448 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,400 of like my migraine things. If I continue to exercise, I 449 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,600 don't get them. So if you continue your 450 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,600 lifestyle, your healthy fitness lifestyle journey, then you can 451 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,480 stay on it a lot longer. So hopefully that's the message 452 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,200 we want to give out. That's the message we're 453 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,680 shouting for sure. What about your training in 454 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,520 cardio, like your, your training stayed pretty consistent whether 455 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,160 you're in a build or whether you're an offseason or prep. 456 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,520 And then cardio, I guess you just gradually scale that up 457 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,800 throughout the prep. Yeah, well, I pretty much do the 458 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,760 same cardio all the time. I do everything pretty much the 459 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,000 same all the time. I have the, so I always, I used 460 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,600 to teach a HIT class and so I do that in the morning first thing, 461 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,240 you know, fasted just that's I can't eat until I've done 462 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,880 something. That's just how my body works 463 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,200 now because I've trained it that way. 464 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,800 So I'll do maybe 20-30 minutes of that just to get my body 465 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,200 warm. I found that as I get older, it 466 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,640 takes a lot longer for my body to warm up. 467 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,640 So be mindful as you get, as you age, you'll need a little bit 468 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,360 more warm up time and then I'll do weights because I don't work. 469 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,320 I can hit like legs in the morning. 470 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,240 So I split that up from whatever I have time. 471 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,720 Maybe I'll do quads, really focus on quads one day, 472 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,600 hamstrings the next day, and then maybe focus more on glutes 473 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,600 the third day. So I have like a little 474 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,520 separation of my lower body. And then if I go back in the 475 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,800 evening, then I'll hit chest, back, shoulders and then arms. 476 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,640 I have the luxury of splitting my workouts out if I want to, 477 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,760 and some days I'll do both in the morning, some days not. 478 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,720 It all depends, but that's been pretty much my workout schedule 479 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,600 for the last 12 years, I think. And then I'll do a little bit of 480 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,480 cardio at the end just to walk things out, get the lactic acid 481 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,640 out and stuff, and then all good. 482 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,600 But it's just that consistency and the maintenance. 483 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,080 So I do something every day no matter what. 484 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,720 What if it's just cardio? It's just cardio, but I move 485 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,360 every day so that I feel good. That's the key. 486 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,120 And you've pretty much competed, you said pretty much every year. 487 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:06,720 I mean, there's probably been a few years where you took off, 488 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,200 but over those 40 competitions you were competing relatively 489 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,040 consistently without a significant. 490 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,280 I did. I did take a break from like my 491 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,280 mid 30s to my 40s through my 40s. 492 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,080 Yeah. I just, I just didn't want there 493 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,440 are less and less competitors after a while. 494 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,560 And then when I started competing, I wanted to do a show 495 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,960 when I was 50. So I geared up for that. 496 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,600 But not really. I mean, I, I planned on it, but 497 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,360 there weren't very many female bodybuilders. 498 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,080 Maybe one or two. Sometimes I'd be the only one. 499 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,920 And so it was, it was kind of not anti climatic as I guess you 500 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,360 could say, because you would show up and then there would be 501 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:46,040 nobody there. So when I found the Natural 502 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,640 Federation, the first couple of years I showed up, there were 503 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,200 1020 people. So I, it was exciting again. 504 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,080 And now it seems to be dropping. You know, it goes, it goes in 505 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,920 waves with the women. We just, I don't know where the 506 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,720 women bodybuilders are anymore. I think it's because there's so 507 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,920 many more categories that they can compete in that it's just 508 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,040 kind of fallen off. Yeah, there's, there's a lot, 509 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,760 there's been a lot of changes. I mean, just within the WNBF 510 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,800 Federation, they're now kind of linked up with the NANBF 511 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,760 Federation, which I think it's a positive. 512 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,400 You know, they're kind of joining forces there. 513 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,520 But there's so many female categories that like when it was 514 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,520 just bodybuilding, that's what females did. 515 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,960 But when there's now bikini, there's figure, there's fit 516 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,520 body, there's I guess physique is kind of like the fit body 517 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,840 within the Debian being federation, because NPC still 518 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,840 has physique, right? They still have physique and you 519 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,680 know, for a while they, they drop bodybuilding altogether, 520 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,320 but they've, I think they're bringing it back now in some of 521 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,160 the local shows. I know they have women's 522 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,880 bodybuilding, but there aren't very many competitors. 523 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,720 It's still big with physique because the IFBB pros have 524 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,880 physique, but I don't know if they have bodybuilding anymore. 525 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,600 There's other federations like the Wings of Strength. 526 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,840 They have female bodybuilders, but those women are, oh, they're 527 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,280 so they're so big. Those are. 528 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,960 Those are not bigger than. You they're bigger. 529 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,920 Than you? Yeah, they're way bigger than 530 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,800 me. Definitely not natural 531 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,200 federations and the Wings of Strength. 532 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,720 No, no. And I think that's why for me, 533 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,840 it's easy for people to look at me and say, oh, she's little. 534 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,120 I can do that because I don't have to be huge. 535 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:27,880 And so, you know, keeping this frame, it kind of dispels, like 536 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,360 we talked about earlier, the myth of you have to be huge to 537 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,880 be a bodybuilder. And it's really about, you know, 538 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,520 the muscularity, the the conditioning, the symmetry, it 539 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,640 comes down to that. Even little people can can win. 540 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,320 So totally just yeah, that's. Let me ask you this, Lisa. 541 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,600 So I get a lot of podcast guests, especially here lately. 542 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,800 It's like HRTTRT, like that is very popular right now. 543 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,480 And it's not like it's even they're coming at it from like a 544 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,360 performance enhancing drug standpoint for competitors. 545 00:26:58,360 --> 00:26:59,960 Like that's obviously still there as well. 546 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,440 But a lot of people are going that route as they're going 547 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,240 through menopause, as they're aging, just to, you know, stack 548 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,120 the chips in their favor and, you know, go through that more 549 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:13,080 gracefully, so to speak. And a lot of the science that's 550 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,040 coming out is kind of painting that in a very positive flight, 551 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,480 Like, hey, there's safe ways to do it. 552 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,280 There's the ways you can test and it can be done properly. 553 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,920 So for you, you know, being healthy, having fitness and 554 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,720 nutrition is such a big part of your life. 555 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:32,280 What kept you on the natural realm instead of using some of 556 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,600 that? And again, not even for 557 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,360 performance, but just from like a overall health and well-being 558 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:40,800 standpoint. One, I'm cheap, I don't, I don't 559 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,880 take anything. I don't take the only thing I 560 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,080 take as far as somebody said, a multivitamin. 561 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,200 So you know those little emergency packets, the kind you 562 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,120 mix with water has vitamin C and all that. 563 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:54,320 It's the only thing I take. I don't take creatine. 564 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,200 I've I've taken maybe A1 bottle of creatine in my whole life. 565 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,360 I just don't want to buy it. If I win something at a show 566 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,080 like a protein powder, I'll use it. 567 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,360 But other than that, I don't take supplements, I don't take 568 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:10,560 anything. And one, I can't remember to 569 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,720 take it and two, I just don't want to buy it. 570 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,440 So I just stay now completely natural because I'm cheap and 571 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,960 that's not. Resulted in any like crazy 572 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,680 adverse effects like you're like, you know, menopausal years 573 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,200 like testosterone naturally declining like that didn't 574 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,040 result in crazy hot flashes or anything like that. 575 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,840 Oh, I had the hot flashes, but I, I was around so many people 576 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,200 that already went through it and I'd make fun of them. 577 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,960 And so I thought, oh, that's just coming back that karma for 578 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,680 me because now I'm having it. But you know, that was in my 50s 579 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,840 Now I don't have, I don't have hot flashes. 580 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,480 I don't have any of that other stuff. 581 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,240 And I don't know, I maybe I just don't notice it. 582 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,240 But you know, the hot flashes, yes. 583 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,280 Oh, you definitely notice those things. 584 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,080 But other than that, it's just part of life. 585 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,720 I mean, that's what happens to people when they age. 586 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,240 You know, they go through the changes. 587 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,000 It's hard to to deal with it mentally at the time, but then 588 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,280 you get over it and then it passes. 589 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,120 So this too shall pass kind of a thing. 590 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,640 I really appreciate that outlook because I'm obviously natural as 591 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,520 well and I just promote that as a lifestyle. 592 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,880 And I feel like with all the popularity that HRT has gotten 593 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,280 lately, I mean, you can, I can totally get behind the 594 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,160 biohacking and the sciences and wanting to optimize. 595 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,400 But at the same time, like we're human beings and we're meant to 596 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,080 go through these natural processes and some are better 597 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,240 than others. Some might not be desirable, but 598 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,080 it's a phase, just like puberty's a phase and people 599 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,120 aren't taking, I mean, I guess now people are taking stuff 600 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,640 during puberty years to, you know, block testosterone, but 601 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,760 generally people aren't. And it's just you get through 602 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,600 it. And I feel like there's a lot to 603 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,160 be said for that, you know, and like now, now that you are 604 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,920 through it, like you're, you're not experiencing any of those 605 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,960 adverse effects. Your training's still dialed in. 606 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,680 You look amazing. So it's just a just. 607 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,960 Yeah, I mean, it's The thing is you have to, it's mental. 608 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,640 A lot of it's mental. You're you're gonna like, like 609 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,000 losing hair, you know, you can fix that. 610 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,520 You can either take a pill or you can do some other stuff. 611 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:15,000 Weight loss, everything has a medical fix to it these days. 612 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,320 But it is like you said, it's part of life. 613 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,760 It happens. You know, dogs don't take extra 614 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,600 testosterone because they're getting older. 615 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,080 They just don't know. So they just live the best life 616 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,320 that they can, as happy as they can be. 617 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,240 And then they go and I think it everything happens for a reason. 618 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,840 We are who we are. We can be the best version of 619 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,280 ourselves by just trying to be the best version of ourselves. 620 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,640 And that part, it's harder mentally, I think, because even 621 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,320 now I look in the mirror and I go, oof, I almost wanted to 622 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,040 compete again. Because you miss that. 623 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,840 You miss being at that great shape and, you know, having that 624 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,440 physique again. But at the same time, you have 625 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,600 to realize, well, you're not going to get it back. 626 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,320 I'm not 30. I'm not 40. 627 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,640 So yeah, it's it's being mentally healthy that helps get 628 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,680 you through the physical changes too. 629 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,120 You kind of have to cycle around those things. 630 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,280 And totally apart from the competition aspect of things, I 631 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:15,560 mean the, the if you live your life like a natural bodybuilder, 632 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,640 you age so much more graceful. Like I would assume you said 633 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,160 you're 61 now. 6260. 2 Now, yeah, I mean, you've discovered 634 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,320 the fountain of youth, in my opinion. 635 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,600 But like you look at your peers that are also in their 60s, like 636 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,040 I would assume that you're able to move, you're able to spend 637 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,920 time with, you know, grandkids and stuff way better than they 638 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,000 are. You're able to get up and down 639 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,440 stairs better than they are. You're able to like jump up and 640 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,040 have some spring in your step still. 641 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,040 And they're, they're not able to do that because they didn't live 642 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,800 their life with that compounding routine that you have. 643 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,000 Yeah, I think, I mean, it's a plus. 644 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,840 I still want to do the things that I want to do and be able to 645 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,760 do it. You know, I've retired now, so I 646 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,560 have freedom to do and travel and do things that I wanted to 647 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,440 do when I was working. And it really it is the 648 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,640 longevity of it. I I don't know how long, you 649 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,440 know, people say I want to live to be 100. 650 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,040 Well, I don't think I want to live to be 100, but I want to 651 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,880 have good quality in life until the day I'm not here anymore. 652 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,440 And that's, that's the part. It's all about the lifestyle and 653 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,520 being happy. I feel good and so I'm always 654 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,160 happy. People say why? 655 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,280 Why are you so happy? Or how can you be happy all the 656 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,600 time? It's like, because I don't have 657 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,280 anything to be unhappy about. I'm healthy. 658 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,200 I can do what I want, you know, it's and I live simple. 659 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,720 I go to the gym and I come home. Then I go to the gym and I come 660 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,840 home. I don't have too many troubles 661 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,120 in my life. You are always smiling. 662 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,400 I don't think I've ever seen you with a frown, which I appreciate 663 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,120 for sure. It's it's noticed. 664 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,320 Well, thank you. Well, it's the only time I found 665 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,520 it's because I can't see and so I'm looking like this. 666 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:51,560 It's like I just can't see. So with you having you were 667 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,760 competing for so long, when did you start judging? 668 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,080 When did that come into the picture? 669 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,280 Well, I started competing with the WNBF in 16 and I think I 670 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:07,600 started test judging at in 2016. I met Bob and Tina in April at 671 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,800 my first show and then they were talking about going to Hawaii 672 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,960 for a show and I was going to go to Hawaii anyway the time that 673 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,520 the show was there. So I just showed up at that show 674 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,040 in June and they're like, hey, you want to test judge? 675 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,920 I said sure, why not? And so I've been test judging 676 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,280 and now I'm judging quite a bit and I just love it. 677 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,440 I think I like judging more than competing because it's, you 678 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,680 know, you meet to meet, you get to meet so many people. 679 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,560 Have you noticed the judging panel is it's usually the same 680 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,000 people who are consistent. And so it's like meeting up with 681 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,520 family members. They get it's it's just a great 682 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,840 experience and then we get that encourage athletes. 683 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,160 So it's just fun. I can't wait to be at your show. 684 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:46,120 We're so. Excited. 685 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,880 I know I'm I'm super excited about it. 686 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,440 You've judged me. I don't know. 687 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,920 Probably more more of my shows than not I would guess over the 688 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,040 years. A couple of times, yeah, I know. 689 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,280 I remember. It's like, wow, when you when, 690 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,680 you know, it's kind of those things with judges, you see 691 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,000 people come out on stage and then there's always one or two 692 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,280 that come out and you go like, OK, this is what it's all about. 693 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,480 And you were one of those. I'm like, oh, you remember that 694 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:07,960 guy? Yeah. 695 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,920 So you made a very good impression, which is which is 696 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,800 great. And This is why you are who you 697 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,719 are these days. But yeah, you just as a judge, 698 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,840 you see the, the great competition, the great physiques 699 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,760 and then you encourage them. And then with you, I know you 700 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,199 came to feedback, didn't you? You came to the judge's 701 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,880 feedback. The good ones always do. 702 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,679 Those are the ones who want to continue to improve. 703 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,800 And then, you know, so I'm going to just shout this one out that 704 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,080 if you want to be better, you need to know what you're doing 705 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,880 or what you're not doing. The people who never come to 706 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,679 feedback are the ones who complain. 707 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,159 They show the one good picture of them on stage and they say I 708 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,560 should have won. I should have, would have, could 709 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,159 have. But they don't know. 710 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,920 And until you find out, you shouldn't be saying anything. 711 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,160 I have, I have a real pet peeve about that. 712 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,480 People complaining about how they placed but they didn't get 713 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,640 feedback so they don't know. Totally, totally agree. 714 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,200 What is your, has there been any trends that you've seen over the 715 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,480 years as a judge? Like have you noticed, you know, 716 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,240 competitors bringing more signs or more conditioning or is 717 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,360 conditioning lacking from what it was 10 years ago? 718 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,360 Like have you just noticed any trends as a judge? 719 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,360 There's several competitor mentions she has competed at 720 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,320 worlds 4 Times Now four years in a row and she noticed that in 721 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,520 figure that not that she's never competed against the same 722 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,200 people. So now I think some women are 723 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,760 taking time off to to try and build. 724 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,080 Whereas it used to be women would just compete and compete 725 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,680 and compete. And I think a lot more athletes 726 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,000 are now taking more time off to to put on some size because they 727 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,400 see how important it is. So goes with the trend that 728 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,360 people are getting bigger. I think the bikini girls are 729 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,040 coming in a little bit harder at the higher level. 730 00:35:55,040 --> 00:36:00,000 Now we're talking aspiring to that world level that I think 731 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,040 people are just getting more muscular because they're 732 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,720 training harder. They know there's more science 733 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:08,080 behind the actual training and the nutrition part. 734 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,880 So you know, people are coming in with a little more size. 735 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,520 I've noticed the women at the higher level of bodybuilding are 736 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,920 coming in leaner, whereas before they were coming in big, but now 737 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,040 they're coming in big and lean. So where my conditioning held 738 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,040 off for so long, it's not happening anymore. 739 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,600 It's, it's about everything. It's about the conditioning, the 740 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,320 size and the symmetries, you know, So it's really evolving 741 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,680 like with men. I'm sure you've seen that the 742 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:42,160 men are also getting bigger with the conditioning and so it's 743 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,200 just an evolving sport. And some of these, I mean, I was 744 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,560 at a competition 2 weekends ago, another show here in Arkansas, 745 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,640 natural shows in AMBF show and man like their, their largest 746 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,280 category was the teen category. And like some of these teens are 747 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,360 just super impressive. And I'm like, where did that 748 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,640 come from? I don't recall being like that 749 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,960 when I was a teenager. No, I feel you. 750 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,720 See that I have posing classes and these kids are coming in 751 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:11,120 1516 years old. I'm like, Oh my gosh, what have 752 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,400 you been eating? Because I need to eat that too. 753 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,640 I mean, they're just, you know, I don't know if it's what they 754 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,040 always say. Oh, it's the the things that 755 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,920 they feed the cows because they're getting all that extra, 756 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,440 extra help. Right. 757 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,920 Maybe. I don't know. 758 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,400 I don't know what it is. I think maybe they're starting a 759 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,200 little bit younger with actual training because of sports, you 760 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,600 know, so competitive that they're looking for 761 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,760 scholarships. So they're really trying to gear 762 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,480 themselves up to be more competitive at the high school 763 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,240 level so that maybe they can get a scholarship to go on and play 764 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:46,200 college ball, too. So it could be social media. 765 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,240 Yeah, it. Could be social media for sure. 766 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:49,480 They're starting young because of them. 767 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,760 I know we're probably going to sound biased because you and I 768 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,760 are both in the Debut and BF as competitors, judges, and 769 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,400 promoters. But am I wrong in thinking that 770 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,760 at the top level, the world's federation or the world's 771 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,680 competition for the WNBF just seems to be like a totally other 772 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,800 caliber than the other federation's top tier? 773 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:13,920 Well, yeah. Well, it's different because 774 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,080 it's natural. Are are we talking natural 775 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,960 federations? Not even just natural, but just 776 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,240 yeah, I mean all the natural federations even I feel like 777 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:25,080 worlds within all the natural federations is like next level. 778 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,400 It's the next level, Yeah. But though that's the best of 779 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,880 the best when it's the World Championships, right? 780 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,200 So athletes from all over the world come and bring it. 781 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,120 Whereas I don't know the, I don't know much about any of the 782 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,720 other federations. I just kind of, I'm kind of 783 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:40,560 tunnel vision because I don't know about it. 784 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,400 I don't really care about the other federations they don't 785 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,080 have. They have so many shows 786 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,000 throughout the year that, you know, I don't know if they even 787 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,880 have like a world's a final destination kind of a thing. 788 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,080 I think like the IFBB has, you know, the Olympia and things 789 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,560 like that, But that's just at their level or at their 790 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,000 federation that level. So that's where ours is. 791 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,960 And people always think, well, I want to see if I get my IFBB pro 792 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,040 cards. Like why? 793 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,360 Why would you want to come in last place to prove that you're 794 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,400 a natural athlete? I mean, there's just no 795 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,240 comparison. So, but I do think that the 796 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,960 world's is is that's, that's the place to be, that's I. 797 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,720 Feel like honestly, even if we're comparing the IFBB to the 798 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,400 Debbie and BF, like I feel like the level of conditioning for 799 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,000 the natural athletes at that world's competition is far and 800 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,520 above that of the conditioning. And just like the like the truly 801 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,000 dense muscle of those in the IFBB league at that level, I 802 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,160 mean, certainly they're much larger. 803 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,080 But like when I look at the graininess and just like the 804 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,240 hard chiseled physiques of the the natural competitors, it's 805 00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:54,360 like I don't see that at the IFBB Olympia. 806 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,440 No, it's just size, all that size and then whatever they're 807 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,000 taking to dehydrate themselves so that their skin can get paper 808 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,160 thin. But you think about how 809 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,520 unhealthy that is. Whereas when you do it slowly 810 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,760 and you do it. Gradually that your body just, 811 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,960 you know, comes to that point where you get on stage and it's 812 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,040 like, wow, like look at Babakar. I mean, that guy's a natural. 813 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,840 He's phenomenal. I know he's the only male to win 814 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,520 three times, right? So that's just says something 815 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,840 about his physique. And I think he got bigger this 816 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,680 year. I don't I don't know how that 817 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,040 happens. But yeah, I think I don't know, 818 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:34,440 I don't know much about the the non tested as far as how the 819 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,600 body changes. All I know is that most of them 820 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,320 are taking making something like a diuretic to drain the excess 821 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,560 water and they get a, a look, but it's not the same as the the 822 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,600 look that the natural competitors get. 823 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,800 So you know, there's that difference, but. 824 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,240 Yeah. And by and large, the natural 825 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,920 competitors, you know, long after they're done competing, 826 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,000 they tend to hold on to the quality size better than those 827 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,200 that are taking a bunch of gear to get that size. 828 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,640 And they're, they're both, they're all working out hard. 829 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:04,840 I mean, I'm not taking that from them. 830 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,000 But like when you look at the IFBB competitors that are just, 831 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,320 you know, walking around shredded at £300, then they stop 832 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,320 competing in 10/15/20 years later, they've downsized 833 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,120 drastically. Whereas the natural competitors, 834 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,200 you know, there's, they're still healthy and they're not that 835 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,960 dialed in, chiseled, but they still have the shape and 836 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,640 symmetry they've built over a lifetime. 837 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,120 Yeah, that's, that's what I've seen as well. 838 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,400 And then they're healthy, their body, their joints, everything 839 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,760 else, they're still moving. Whereas like, you know, you look 840 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,280 at Ronnie Coleman and you look at all those guys that their 841 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,640 bodies are just trashed out and they just can't, they don't 842 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,000 function like they used to because they put so much wear 843 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,320 and tear on it early on that now their quality of life is not is 844 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,760 just not the same. But yeah, that's, you know, 845 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,240 that's why the big masters push with the WNBF too. 846 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,520 It's because, you know, we need to address the people who are 847 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,960 still going at it after all of these years. 848 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,360 So I think that's why they want to push the masters categories a 849 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,600 little bit further is that we need to make them still compete 850 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,280 because it's hard to compete. I'm 61 and I was competing 851 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,880 against 30 year olds, 20 year olds and, you know, just well, 852 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,520 smells. Yeah, But you know, this it's, 853 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,400 it's, it's hard. It's still hard. 854 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,600 We, we can't maintain it for that long and we just don't have 855 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,760 the size that they have now. But so, you know, there needs to 856 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,960 be a masters category for the people who are. 857 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,600 But at the same time, people always think, oh, masters just 858 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,680 means that they're old. It's like, no, they've been 859 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,640 doing it a lot longer. So the muscle maturity and the 860 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,920 conditioning is that much better at that age. 861 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,120 So just the size isn't quite the same. 862 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,320 But don't count out old people. They're still. 863 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:47,680 Going still. In the game so. 864 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,560 Do you think you're actually retired from competing again, or 865 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,000 do you think you'll grace the stage again at some point? 866 00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,400 I know everybody sees, everybody thinks that I'm going to get 867 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,480 back on stage unless they have an ultra female bodybuilding 868 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,120 which is 60 and above. And I still don't think I want 869 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,400 to. I still don't think I want to 870 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,640 get back on stage again. I really enjoying judging. 871 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:16,080 You know, I think I judge almost close to 10 shows a year, so 872 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:19,480 that just keeps me busy and I really enjoy it. 873 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,600 So I'm good without. I don't have that. 874 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,200 Oh, I wish I was up there. You know how sometimes you watch 875 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,720 something and you think, oh man, I wish I could still do it. 876 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,040 I'm OK. I sit back and I judge now. 877 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,280 I write the scores down and it's all good. 878 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,480 Yeah, I don't think I'll be back. 879 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,080 Well, I'm going to put myself on the spot here a little bit. 880 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,560 So you, I don't remember the last show that I did that you 881 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,400 judged, but the last competitive season I did was 2023. 882 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,680 When you look at me as a competitor, what do I need to, I 883 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,400 feel like I've got the conditioning part dialed in. 884 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,720 Like I don't think I need to. I can't really get any more 885 00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:56,360 condition than I've gotten. Where can I make improvement? 886 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,320 I'm saying this so the listeners can like hold me accountable 887 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,920 because I'm just putting it all out there right now. 888 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,800 Well, you know, like I said, as soon as you walk out, it was, 889 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,280 you know, everybody just like wow, you know, your physique is 890 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,920 just, it's just, it's eye-catching because of your 891 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,040 condition and you're just like dry, you're shredded. 892 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,440 Your muscularity is good. I mean, you're good symmetry and 893 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,960 everything. The only thing is that as you 894 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,880 progress, you're going to have to put on more size. 895 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:24,320 That's that's it. I don't know where you came in 896 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,960 as far as your weight class, but you always want to be the 897 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,400 heaviest at the lightest weight class that you can be in, so. 898 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,480 I'm typically lightweight and I'm normally in the, the, you 899 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,520 know, the other end of lightweight, the lighter end of 900 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,400 lightweight. Yeah, I think I get down to like 901 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:46,640 one 51153 last season, but I need to be heavy lightweights 902 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,560 for sure. Heavier lightweights, yeah. 903 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,080 See, like, well, you know, Leo, I mean, with the lightweights, 904 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,280 all you guys come in with shredded glutes. 905 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,200 I mean, how do you judge eight people with shredded glutes? 906 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,320 It's ridiculous. As far as conditioning, so the 907 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,680 guys are coming in conditioned at the natural level, at the 908 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,400 world level, everybody has that conditioning. 909 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,720 So you need to separate yourself by maybe having just a little 910 00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:12,360 bit more size. Again, aiming for the heaviest 911 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,440 of that lightweight class. And that's just going to put on 912 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,040 more muscle. It's going to just add to your 913 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,360 symmetry. So you know, the bigger 914 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,160 shoulders, good quads, you already have good quads. 915 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,320 I remember your quads. You're like boom, spot on. 916 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,440 So anything to make your waist look smaller, so create that 917 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,280 more X frame smoke and mirrors kind of thing. 918 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,520 The bigger the shoulders, the smaller the waist because that's 919 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,280 just going to add to that symmetry. 920 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,840 You know, like Bob a car, he's got those tiny little waist and 921 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,840 big shoulders. So for you, because you're 922 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,560 already a lightweight, you're going to have to come in heavier 923 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,040 at the lightweight. Does that make sense? 924 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,560 Totally, totally. This is why I take so many years 925 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,240 off in between shows like I did 23 and I may not compete again 926 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:55,280 till 27 but I guarantee you when you see me in 27 it's going to 927 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,720 be a whole of the package. They're like, oh, look at that. 928 00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:00,960 He's heavy at the lightweight and it takes out. 929 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,920 So I'm going to ask you, how long does it take you to put on 930 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,600 like good, a good 2 lbs of quality muscle? 931 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,080 I mean 2 lbs. I feel like if I'm in a building 932 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,240 phase the entire year, you know, £2 a year is pretty realistic. 933 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,760 Okay, yeah, because everybody you see guys at the jewelry, I'm 934 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,240 gonna I'm gonna put on 10 lbs of muscle by August like. 935 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,760 Yeah, wow. I mean, if you like just started 936 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,360 working out, like the first year I started working out, I put on 937 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,880 like 20 lbs and it was pretty solid. 938 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,280 It wasn't solid muscle, but it was pretty solid. 939 00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:36,520 But like, if you're a seasoned athlete and you've been lifting 940 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,440 for five plus years, like, you know, 2 lbs of muscle a years is 941 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,000 really solid, especially for doing it naturally. 942 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,800 Obviously, yeah. Yeah, I know. 943 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,200 That's why. The thing is, you know, I've 944 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,880 been working out for what, 30 some years for me to put on, put 945 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,760 on any muscle I really have to go on a building phase and I 946 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,880 don't want to eat that much to to do that. 947 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,720 And so that's why I just said, you know, that's why I probably 948 00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:02,480 won't ever get back on stage again. 949 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,760 I'm just too small to to get back there and I don't want to 950 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,440 put in the work to do it. So do you just dislike eating 951 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,400 the amount of food necessary to put on that size, or you just 952 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,720 don't like losing that much definition to accomplish that 953 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:19,120 goal? Or what is the hesitation there? 954 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,480 I think it is. It's, it's, it's both. 955 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,840 I don't want to just spend all my day eating and preparing 956 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,200 foods. I don't like feeling a little 957 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,880 heavier than I normally feel just because you know, you have 958 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,240 to put on and a little bit of extra weight. 959 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,280 And I just, I kind of like the way I look. 960 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,920 It's just comfortable for me and I don't have to do a lot to 961 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,680 maintain the look that I have. So it's just having a happy 962 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,640 balance in life. Whereas I'm I'm good with where 963 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,560 I'm at. Totally makes sense. 964 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,800 Talk to me about the the show that you're promoting. 965 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,120 So what was the motivation for becoming a promoter? 966 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,880 What are you doing different? It's going to set your show 967 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,320 apart. Like give me the details on 968 00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:59,560 that. Oh my gosh. 969 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,760 OK, So I never wanted to promote a show ever because I'm around 970 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,520 it so much that I see all the stress people go through. 971 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,640 So that was never on my radar. Then Bob calls me and, you know, 972 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,040 we lost the promoter that had The One Show in the Northwest 973 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,000 here in Oregon, and he said we need a show. 974 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:24,360 It's like this was me, OK. And so I agreed to do it 975 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,920 thinking that you know, it, it wouldn't be so bad. 976 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,520 And then of course having to find a hotel and the venue and 977 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,840 so many other things, it just, it was overwhelming trying to do 978 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,840 a website. I haven't so I haven't taught 979 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,800 for years. And so for me to get back on the 980 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,360 computer, it was just mind blowing. 981 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,960 I forgot how to do anything on the computer. 982 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,640 So it's just, but then I have so much help as well. 983 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,440 I've got, you know, the kings up in Canada who are just more than 984 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,480 willing to help out with anything that I need. 985 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:58,360 Katie is a great, you know, they're all great resources and 986 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,120 really helpful, except Katie. I don't know if you've ever done 987 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,000 Katie's shows or heard about her. 988 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,120 I've never competed in them, no, But Katie's great. 989 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,520 Katie's great. She's great. 990 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,440 She sets the bar very high because she does a lot of swag. 991 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,120 Everybody in her show gets a sword. 992 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,200 Everybody gets a bag of goodies, all the competitors, and I'm 993 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,200 like, I don't have the money to do that. 994 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,920 And one, I'm horrible at asking for money. 995 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,400 So everything for this show is coming out of my pocket. 996 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,480 I'm just paying for everything because I don't know how to ask 997 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,720 for sponsorship and I don't want to. 998 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,520 But luckily the venue is not a big venue, so it's a small one. 999 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:39,400 Expecting a smaller show because it's the first one and yeah, 1000 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,800 we're just seeing what happens. But the more I do posing classes 1001 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,960 and the more I meet people and help them with their journey, 1002 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,240 the more fun it's become. It's just dealing with all the 1003 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:54,560 other stuff that is really hard. There's a lot of administrative 1004 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,040 stuff because I mean like I'm a first time promoter this year as 1005 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,400 well. We're in the same boat in that 1006 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,320 regard. And it's like, you know, I've 1007 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,480 got all the the business stuff that I do. 1008 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,880 So that's helped tremendous. Like, I don't know if I don't 1009 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,480 know how I would do a show had I not already been doing business 1010 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,000 and websites that design and all the stuff that we've done here. 1011 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,000 So I feel good there. But like, you know, promoting 1012 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,080 it, marketing it, drumming up interests, like going to 1013 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,720 different posing seminars, hosting posing seminars, you 1014 00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:24,600 know, putting Flyers out, like all of the stuff that goes on 1015 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,000 behind the scenes. It's like it's. 1016 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,800 It's no trivial task by any means. 1017 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,600 I don't know how people do it and I don't know how people do 1018 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,800 multiple shows. It's, it's it's crazy. 1019 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,200 I, yeah, when I sometimes I get into it going, what did I do? 1020 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,760 What, what did I agree to do this for? 1021 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,400 So, yeah. And I don't have, I don't train 1022 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,760 people. I don't have any business 1023 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,480 background or anything. So I'm came, I came in with 1024 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,020 nothing. And then I at least I ordered 1025 00:50:53,020 --> 00:50:54,080 T-shirts. I have T-shirts. 1026 00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:58,520 Well, you've got a massive heart, Lisa, and that goes a 1027 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,600 long ways for sure. So I've got no doubt that your 1028 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,160 show is going to be a knockout success. 1029 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,320 Well, thanks, You know, I did. I tell you, I had an athlete 1030 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,040 that follows you. So she's been training, not 1031 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,760 training, but she's been doing posing classes with me and she 1032 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,840 was so ready to come to your show, but financially would have 1033 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,120 been hard for her. But she is like an avid keto 1034 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,320 person and so and she did well. She did Katie's show. 1035 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,800 She won the debut class and the novice class for bodybuilding. 1036 00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:28,880 And she did it all with keto. Yeah. 1037 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:32,440 What's what's her name? Her name is Alicia Philbach. 1038 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,480 I'll look her up, that's awesome. 1039 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:39,600 Yeah, yeah, I think her Instagram is Phillip Backside or 1040 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,000 something like that. But yeah, I tried to get her to 1041 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,960 go to your show. That would have been awesome. 1042 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,880 Do you have female bodybuilders? So what I found, and you could 1043 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:53,240 probably test this too, is like competitors are the worst. 1044 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,040 They do not register until the last minute. 1045 00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,760 And I was never like that. I mean, as a competitor myself, 1046 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,480 like I register as soon as I have my calendar mapped out. 1047 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,640 Like I register as soon as I can so that I can put that date on 1048 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,320 the calendar. It's like spoken for, it's done. 1049 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,160 It's off of my off my chest. And like most competitors don't 1050 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,880 do that. They like wait till the last 1051 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,480 minute, which as a promoter is like horrendous because you get 1052 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,520 all these expenses coming in and there's no revenue. 1053 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,800 I tell you, I under, I totally get that. 1054 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,160 And you know, it's like of a panic point because I've never 1055 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,280 done this before and everybody says don't worry about it, 1056 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,160 they'll register. They'll register like I want 1057 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,160 them to register now. I want to use their entry money 1058 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:35,280 to buy the prizes for them. It's like there's no revenue at 1059 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,480 this point. So it is. 1060 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,000 But you know, that's what people do these days. 1061 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,080 They wait until the last minute to see if they're ready because 1062 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,440 if they're not, they're not going to enter and and lose 1063 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,040 their money so. See, I think that's flawed 1064 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,840 thinking. Like I feel like if you register 1065 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,440 and it's on the calendar, it's set in stone, then it's like 1066 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,400 you're going to have that in the back of your mind when you're 1067 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,560 training, when you're hitting your macros, when you're doing 1068 00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:57,880 your cardio. It's like if you know you're 1069 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,160 going to step on stage and there's no talking yourself out 1070 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,640 of it, then you're not gonna shirk that responsibility. 1071 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,480 So I feel like exactly competitors would be doing 1072 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,480 themselves a favour if they register early and set that that 1073 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,320 they set. That date, yeah, it's like this 1074 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,520 is this is your goal. This is your deadline right 1075 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:13,760 here. You need to be ready. 1076 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,000 But yeah, they don't do the the work ethic these days is a 1077 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,240 little lacking. I think, you know, things have 1078 00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:22,240 changed since before, because before people would be like, 1079 00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:24,520 yeah, I'm going to enter this show and I'm going to do that 1080 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:25,560 show. So. 1081 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,840 But these days it's easier to to to to back out than it is to 1082 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,000 stick with it. So there's there's that. 1083 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,200 Yeah, I know. Well, what, what is the the 1084 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,040 website for your show? I mean, anything I can do to 1085 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,760 help promote it and spread the word? 1086 00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,280 I mean, let me know for sure. I'm there for you. 1087 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,040 Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, because that's one thing too, is 1088 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,280 I'm terrible about social media, so my posts have been a little 1089 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,120 less than desirable. But it's just a Portland rain 1090 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:56,120 natural classic, so that's. Portland Rain National Classic. 1091 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,760 Like REIGN, like a king or rain. Nice. 1092 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,280 Yeah, I used to play for a softball team called the 1093 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,000 Portland Rain, and so that it just popped up in my head, it's 1094 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,920 like, OK, that's that's doable. But yeah. 1095 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,240 So how do you ask for sponsorship? 1096 00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:13,280 I mean, how do you approach companies? 1097 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,600 I honestly haven't really promoted or asked for 1098 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,520 sponsorships. I've got it on my website. 1099 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,000 So like if you go to our competition website, 1100 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,800 naturalstatesavages.com, there's like a, you know, a page to 1101 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,880 register or if you want interested in sponsorships, 1102 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,160 we've got like 3 different tiers and people can do that. 1103 00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,520 But I speak at a bunch of conferences and I've, I'm a 1104 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,680 vendor at a bunch of conferences with the booths. 1105 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:41,320 So I kind of modeled what I've liked on the vendor side, kind 1106 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,920 of like for my sponsors, like we've got one company that just 1107 00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,120 opened up. They're like a DEXA scan and 1108 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:51,240 they've got like they've got DEXA scan, VO2 Max, like a 3D 1109 00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:55,040 imaging software and like resting metabolic rate 1110 00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,800 calculator. And they just opened their doors 1111 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,560 right down the road from us and they're going to be a sponsor. 1112 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,320 They're going to have a booth there, but also like my company 1113 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:05,880 is going to be a sponsor. It's like we're going to have 1114 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,680 our keto bricks there and then I've got like a massage practice 1115 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,560 there, a couple supplement companies. 1116 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,720 But I didn't really, I didn't really pursue anybody that I 1117 00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:17,360 hadn't already had a relationship with. 1118 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,640 I just like told the people that I already had a good working 1119 00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,440 relationship with of hey, I've got a show coming up, would love 1120 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,000 to have you as a sponsor if you're interested. 1121 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,960 We'll have a booth for you or something like that. 1122 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,880 So that's how I did it, but there are probably way better 1123 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,440 ways to do it. Yeah, well, we'll live and 1124 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,360 learn, right? So the next show we do, it'll be 1125 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,640 a little bit better. Right now I'm just wanting to 1126 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,880 get people involved and get the word out that we're doing it. 1127 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,200 So just saying, hey, you know, I'm not going to try. 1128 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,000 Just come and do put up a booth or something so that people know 1129 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,040 who you are as well. So it's kind of a it's, yeah, 1130 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,480 it's it's just kind of a word, word of mouth kind of a thing 1131 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,720 for me at this point. But I'll get better at it 1132 00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:54,880 because I want to do more for the athletes. 1133 00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:57,040 Yeah. And and that, I mean, that's the 1134 00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:58,320 main thing. That's what I'm trying to really 1135 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,600 relay it through my messaging. And I feel like when you're 1136 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,960 doing it for the athletes first and foremost, then like that 1137 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,600 positive word of mouth spreads. And like competitors want to do 1138 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,480 your show because you you're taking care of them, you're 1139 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,080 offering value to them. So I think you know yours will 1140 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,280 continue to grow because like I said, you've got a heart of gold 1141 00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:19,120 and that doesn't go unnoticed. So like it will continue to get 1142 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,760 better and bigger every single year. 1143 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,040 Yeah, as do you. And This is why I liked you from 1144 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,360 the get go. You showed up, you were willing 1145 00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,800 to help and do anything. I think you've volunteered at 1146 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:33,240 Aaron's show the first time that we actually got to after the 1147 00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:36,400 world's backstage thing. And it's like, ah, this guy's 1148 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,440 for real. He's there to help out. 1149 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,640 He's working, he's doing everything that he needs to do. 1150 00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,840 Because a lot of people don't see that backstage stuff, the 1151 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,000 setting up the, you know, papering the walls, papering the 1152 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,320 floors, you know, doing all the setup and everything. 1153 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,640 People don't see that and judging. 1154 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,320 They just think we show up, wear the T-shirt and and score 1155 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:56,880 things. But you know, there's a lot to 1156 00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,960 be said about what happens in the back scenes. 1157 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,120 So when I met you and I saw that, it's like, oh, you guys, 1158 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,640 we need you need to get a hold of him because he's he's the 1159 00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,480 real deal. So yeah, kudos to you for for 1160 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,880 being who you are. It's been a pleasure. 1161 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,800 It's been awesome because when we got like a family, like we've 1162 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,520 got like all the WNBF promoters, Bob and Tina, like we've got 1163 00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,200 that, you know, group WhatsApp message thread, It's like 1164 00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,320 everybody's here for the right reasons. 1165 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,480 We're all wanting to help with the athletes and like just make 1166 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,520 it a better sport. Like bring natural bodybuilding 1167 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,440 more center stage. And when you talk to people that 1168 00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,800 are that have that shared mission, it's like we're all 1169 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,320 working together. Like we don't have this 1170 00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,560 competitive vibe. We're competitive on stage. 1171 00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,560 Like if I'm competing, you know, like I'm ripping your head off. 1172 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:43,960 But like as a promoter, as a judge, as a fellow competitor, 1173 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,680 like we're all just trying to grow the sport so that it's a 1174 00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,080 healthier option and viable for people to do so. 1175 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,440 Yeah, we're all aligned in that. Yeah, well, just show up for 1176 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,600 each other and that's why we're so excited to come to your show, 1177 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,320 Terry. Katie and I were like, yeah, we 1178 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,520 get to go to Keto Savage show so. 1179 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:01,960 Yeah, it's going to be good. I'm excited to have you out 1180 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:03,800 there. My dad's going to be cooking BBQ 1181 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,800 for all the judges and competitors, so you'll be 1182 00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,800 getting some homegrown BBQ. It's going to be good. 1183 00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,680 It's going to be it's. Going to be good like. 1184 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,360 Venue. So I'm super excited about it. 1185 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,040 Yeah, we're really looking forward to it. 1186 00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:17,280 I'm sure it'll be a great show. Who else is coming? 1187 00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,320 Do you know judges as far as you have a full panel already? 1188 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,520 Yeah, I've got all 7. Let me see here a couple of them 1189 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,240 because like Nickerson, they were going to both come but then 1190 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:29,640 they had a wedding or something to go to. 1191 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,080 Yeah, his his dog's getting married like in Germany or 1192 00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:33,800 something. Yeah, yeah. 1193 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,840 So viable excuse for sure. So a couple of my judges, Bob 1194 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,800 reached out and recommended some NANBF judges. 1195 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,200 So I've got, I guess since we're all sharing the same guidelines 1196 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,240 and I think I've got 2 judges there. 1197 00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,480 Kenneth Fritz is going to be a judge. 1198 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,640 I got, I got the full panel, but I got to go back and look and 1199 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:52,960 see all the names. OK. 1200 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,200 So Kenneth, first, he was from here because he was at that show 1201 00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,120 that you were at, right? Yeah. 1202 00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:00,360 Is he, is he over there now? Is he? 1203 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,800 Did he know he's still, he's still up in the Northwest? 1204 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,080 Everybody in the Northwest, like it's funny because I'm in 1205 00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:10,640 Arkansas, but most of my competitive journey has been in 1206 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,680 the Pacific Northwest. So like most of my connections 1207 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,560 are with y'all up in that region. 1208 00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,400 So yeah, we're all, we're all over the place, but we're all 1209 00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,800 one big family. It's what exactly? 1210 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,440 And then we'll all do what we need to do. 1211 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,480 So if there's anything you need in the meantime, just let us 1212 00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,240 know and then we'll help help you on this end because you 1213 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,000 know, we are in the Pacific Northwest. 1214 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,560 You're stomping grounds. Yeah, 100%. 1215 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:35,240 Well, if there's anything I could do to help you with your 1216 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,960 show endeavors, Lisa, you just reach out and let me know 1217 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,640 because I want to see you succeed with it and I'm happy to 1218 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:41,840 help. Thank you. 1219 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,120 That's I so appreciate that. It's been awesome. 1220 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,720 So the the website one more time for people listening. 1221 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:53,720 Portland Rain Natural Classic. And what is your and what is 1222 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:55,360 your social profile that you're promoting? 1223 00:59:55,880 --> 01:00:01,560 I think I have L2 Portland rain at so that's my Instagram and 1224 01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,000 then. Yeah, L2 Portland range. 1225 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,200 So most of those things I think are on the website and how to 1226 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,040 contact me and and so forth. So perfect. 1227 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:11,400 Yeah. Well, I'll link out to all that 1228 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,200 make it easy for people to find you for sure. 1229 01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,040 Thank you. I really appreciate that. 1230 01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:18,040 So yeah, I know you have a ton of followers, so hopefully 1231 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,600 that'll go. Well, whether they compete or 1232 01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:21,720 not, it's a different question though. 1233 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,680 So hopefully, hopefully that will work out and we'll get some 1234 01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:26,480 competitors at both of our shows for sure. 1235 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,440 Both of our shows, yeah, back-to-back, do both the 1236 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,160 polygraphs no good. There you go, perfect. 1237 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,440 Kill two birds and one. Yeah. 1238 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,760 Well, Lisa, I think the world of you. 1239 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,760 You are truly on top of the fountain of youth. 1240 01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,720 You look great. Every single, every single time 1241 01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,200 I see you on stage, you look better. 1242 01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,760 I mean, you're killing it. You're an inspiration to many. 1243 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,040 And I'm just grateful to know you and call your friend. 1244 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:47,720 Me too. Same here. 1245 01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,000 Thank you so much. All right, well, you take care 1246 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,560 and good luck with the baby. Appreciate it, Appreciate it. 1247 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,760 We'll keep you posted for sure. All right, take care.