1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,440 Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,240 Today I've got special guest Kevin Doland on the line. 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,240 He is one of the founders of the Natal Conference that's going to 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,760 be happening in Austin, TX in December. 5 00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:15,480 And it focuses on the population decline that we are now 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,120 experiencing globally and in the US And we kind of dive deeper 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,920 into what that is exactly what it means, what it means not just 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,680 for us, but also the generations, you know, coming 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,320 forward, our kids generation, their kids generation. 10 00:00:29,660 --> 00:00:32,780 What is contributing to this decline as it pertains to 11 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:37,500 culture and societal shifts, biomedical changes, fertility 12 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:40,660 rates changing? Not the normal podcast that I've 13 00:00:40,660 --> 00:00:43,260 recorded, but a very, very interesting conversation 14 00:00:43,260 --> 00:00:46,300 nonetheless. I feel very blessed to have met 15 00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:49,820 with Kevin, learned from him, and I'm very excited to relay 16 00:00:49,820 --> 00:00:52,020 this information to y'all through this podcast. 17 00:00:52,020 --> 00:00:55,260 So without further delay, sit back, relax, enjoy the 18 00:00:55,260 --> 00:01:08,290 conversation with Kevin Doland and we are live. 19 00:01:08,290 --> 00:01:10,210 Kevin, how are you Sir? Doing great man. 20 00:01:10,450 --> 00:01:12,410 Thanks for having me. Hey, I'm excited to be chatting 21 00:01:12,410 --> 00:01:15,290 with you, so we got introduced through e-mail. 22 00:01:15,290 --> 00:01:18,490 We have a mutual friend in Barbara who I interact with 23 00:01:18,570 --> 00:01:20,850 Aikido Con. She's great friends with Judy 24 00:01:20,850 --> 00:01:22,810 Cho, who's an awesome individual. 25 00:01:22,810 --> 00:01:25,290 And she was telling me about this conference you have coming 26 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:28,330 up in Austin called the Natal Conference that dives deep into 27 00:01:29,530 --> 00:01:34,010 the declining birth rate, hormonal health and just what 28 00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:36,050 what we're kind of dealing with as a society there. 29 00:01:36,050 --> 00:01:40,610 So what this is a topic that I feel is widely misunderstood. 30 00:01:40,610 --> 00:01:43,850 People don't understand why people don't understand the 31 00:01:43,850 --> 00:01:46,570 birth rates decline. This is kind of newer 32 00:01:46,570 --> 00:01:49,450 information to the general lay public, is it not? 33 00:01:50,490 --> 00:01:52,530 Yeah, I mean a lot. A lot of people are still kind 34 00:01:52,530 --> 00:01:55,890 of living in the in the 70s where it was all, you know, Paul 35 00:01:55,890 --> 00:01:58,610 Ehrlich, population bombs, Soylent Green. 36 00:01:59,850 --> 00:02:04,250 The the narrative was that the population was gonna explode out 37 00:02:04,250 --> 00:02:07,170 of control and we were gonna, you know, run out of everything 38 00:02:07,170 --> 00:02:10,130 and living be living in sort of a favela planet. 39 00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:15,090 And it's funny you say that because, like my my parents, who 40 00:02:15,130 --> 00:02:18,530 obviously have shaped me quite a bit, they're constantly talking 41 00:02:18,530 --> 00:02:22,650 about the overwhelming growth in population and how it's, you 42 00:02:22,650 --> 00:02:24,850 know, our planet can't sustain that growth. 43 00:02:24,850 --> 00:02:27,450 And that's why they only had two kids, my brother and I, because 44 00:02:27,450 --> 00:02:29,890 they just wanted to replace themselves and not contribute to 45 00:02:29,890 --> 00:02:34,290 this increased growth rates. But I guess that's totally 46 00:02:34,330 --> 00:02:37,850 turned on its head now. Yeah, I mean, basically I I 47 00:02:37,850 --> 00:02:42,030 think people. Don't understand. 48 00:02:42,230 --> 00:02:44,190 Well, number one, they just don't know that people aren't 49 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:45,950 having kids anymore. Or at least they haven't. 50 00:02:47,350 --> 00:02:49,670 I think if you were to, like, ask them intuitively, like, hey, 51 00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:51,950 look around you, how many young families do you see? 52 00:02:52,790 --> 00:02:56,390 They'd be like, Oh yeah, it's probably not a lot, but I think 53 00:02:56,390 --> 00:03:03,310 that a lot of them are sort of imagining that it's like just 54 00:03:03,310 --> 00:03:06,390 their social circle or it's just their sort of socioeconomic 55 00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:07,910 class that's not having lots of kids. 56 00:03:08,860 --> 00:03:10,140 But it's actually across the board. 57 00:03:10,220 --> 00:03:16,460 It's it's every basically every demographic in America is is 58 00:03:16,460 --> 00:03:21,420 below replacement fertility apart from not just recent 59 00:03:21,420 --> 00:03:24,460 immigrants but recent immigrants like without a high school 60 00:03:24,460 --> 00:03:27,540 diploma. So it's essentially like the the 61 00:03:27,540 --> 00:03:33,020 sort of migrant labor class of of immigrant they have above 62 00:03:33,020 --> 00:03:35,140 replacement fertility nobody else does. 63 00:03:35,580 --> 00:03:40,210 And the the narrative. Among like sort of the right 64 00:03:40,210 --> 00:03:42,450 thing you're supposed to say about this problem is like, 65 00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:44,930 well, we'll just solve the fertility crisis through through 66 00:03:44,930 --> 00:03:48,770 immigration. But Central America and South 67 00:03:48,770 --> 00:03:53,170 America as a whole are right at the cusp of replacement 68 00:03:53,170 --> 00:04:00,490 fertility and falling rapidly. So like the the same the same 69 00:04:00,490 --> 00:04:05,810 factors that are generating this this population decline in. 70 00:04:06,410 --> 00:04:09,530 You know, sort of the developed world, it's it's ramifying to 71 00:04:09,530 --> 00:04:12,450 the whole rest of the planet in it. 72 00:04:12,450 --> 00:04:17,730 By by 2050, the only countries on Earth with above replacement 73 00:04:17,730 --> 00:04:19,649 fertility will be in sub-Saharan Africa. 74 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:26,050 And the reason that matters is because our entire economic 75 00:04:26,050 --> 00:04:30,210 system is predicated on stable growth. 76 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:36,130 It's you know, if if you if you go into debt as a business. 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,760 And you have expectations of reliable growth it's it's like 78 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,680 no problem you can sort of grow your way out of out of the debt. 79 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,240 But if that business did no longer has expectations of 80 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,360 steady growth and and especially if like the government you're 81 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:57,600 continually sort of renegotiating the debt the the, 82 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,160 the cost to service that debt will just explode. 83 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:07,610 It was like, you know, if you if you took out. 90% leverage to 84 00:05:07,610 --> 00:05:09,770 start a business or like like down, down payment on your 85 00:05:09,770 --> 00:05:11,330 house, right. If you put 20% down on your 86 00:05:11,330 --> 00:05:15,210 house and that house loses half its value, you're like wiped 87 00:05:15,210 --> 00:05:17,370 out, you're like in you're, you're underwater you're in the 88 00:05:17,370 --> 00:05:21,890 negative right versus if you if you paid cash it would be 89 00:05:21,890 --> 00:05:25,770 different. So but our economy is wildly 90 00:05:25,770 --> 00:05:28,770 leveraged. Real estate markets are 91 00:05:28,770 --> 00:05:34,050 predicated on steady population growth, all kinds of sort of the 92 00:05:34,050 --> 00:05:38,640 way that the way that companies. Compute what they what they 93 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,480 imagine demand will be in the future. 94 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:43,640 Everything that we're preparing for is this is this scenario of 95 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,600 like steady population growth. And when you break that 96 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,960 assumption, so many things collapse. 97 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,880 And you, you can see the consequences of that kind of 98 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,360 thing in a city like Detroit, where the tax base abandons the 99 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,760 city and then you've got these pockets of people living in 100 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,760 these essentially abandoned neighborhoods. 101 00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:10,220 And the cost to pump water and electricity and sewer and 102 00:06:10,220 --> 00:06:14,260 garbage and everything goes up exponentially on those 103 00:06:14,260 --> 00:06:17,700 individuals because the the pipes, you know, it's not like 104 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:20,700 you can just sort of send the water directly to that one 105 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:23,020 house. It's like this huge sprawling 106 00:06:23,020 --> 00:06:26,420 infrastructure system built for a much larger population that 107 00:06:26,420 --> 00:06:28,460 still has to be maintained and kept clean. 108 00:06:28,460 --> 00:06:30,620 Like that's that's a lot of what happened with the Flint water 109 00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:34,790 crisis was you just didn't have. You didn't have the tax base to 110 00:06:34,790 --> 00:06:38,230 sustain this infrastructure meant for a larger population 111 00:06:38,710 --> 00:06:43,710 and it it can be so. So then not only is your is your 112 00:06:43,710 --> 00:06:48,190 property value you know, collapsed because of of sort of 113 00:06:48,190 --> 00:06:52,110 the market forces, but also it's like nothing works anymore and 114 00:06:52,190 --> 00:06:55,270 the the houses around you are like boarded up and there's like 115 00:06:55,510 --> 00:06:57,630 you know homeless people living in them and doing drugs and like 116 00:06:57,630 --> 00:07:02,900 there's this huge. Value collapse such that these 117 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:05,620 homes that used to be just sort of regular middle class homes 118 00:07:05,620 --> 00:07:09,580 are like selling for 10,000 dollars, $5000, sometimes even 119 00:07:09,580 --> 00:07:12,780 like triple digits, you know, $500.00. 120 00:07:14,860 --> 00:07:19,740 So, so it's a real problem. It's it's it's A and and it's 121 00:07:19,740 --> 00:07:23,020 it's going to be a global problem like Detroit right now. 122 00:07:23,700 --> 00:07:26,100 Michigan is still solvent. the United States government is 123 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:27,580 still solvent. But what if you had that 124 00:07:27,580 --> 00:07:29,980 phenomenon in every major city in America? 125 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:33,020 All at the same time and there wasn't anybody to bail them out. 126 00:07:33,460 --> 00:07:35,580 Yeah, that's that's kind of what we're up against. 127 00:07:35,980 --> 00:07:39,500 So when we're looking at this like from a a global standpoint 128 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:43,060 actually can you do you have any statistics handy like at what 129 00:07:43,060 --> 00:07:47,100 point did the population start to decline it, what what year 130 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:49,580 did that start happening well world. 131 00:07:49,580 --> 00:07:53,180 Population is still increasing but we're we're we're basically 132 00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:57,940 right toward the top of the curve and it's it's virtually 133 00:07:57,940 --> 00:08:00,180 all. Sub-Saharan Africa and the 134 00:08:00,180 --> 00:08:02,780 Middle East. Why is that you think? 135 00:08:04,220 --> 00:08:09,660 Well, essentially the the cut off in terms of like national 136 00:08:09,660 --> 00:08:14,100 income appears to be about $5000 per person per year. 137 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:18,580 So if a country is richer than than you know, $5000 per person 138 00:08:18,580 --> 00:08:23,620 per year, it's got either replacement fertility or rapidly 139 00:08:23,620 --> 00:08:27,940 declining fertility. So it's like. 140 00:08:29,180 --> 00:08:32,460 It it, it appears to be the case that it has something to do with 141 00:08:32,780 --> 00:08:38,179 with prosperity and opportunity and education and like all these 142 00:08:38,179 --> 00:08:41,220 good things. So it's it's, it's really, it's 143 00:08:41,220 --> 00:08:47,500 really a sticky problem to to unravel and and I think you know 144 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:51,500 just basically Africa and the Middle East there's just a lot 145 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:54,820 of development work to go and and and you're seeing it in 146 00:08:54,820 --> 00:08:56,900 those countries too they have the, the, the. 147 00:08:57,470 --> 00:09:01,750 The slope of the curve, the the the way that their population, 148 00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:03,510 their fertility is trending downward. 149 00:09:04,350 --> 00:09:05,710 I, I, I could show you the graphs. 150 00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:07,310 It looks exactly the same as everywhere else. 151 00:09:07,310 --> 00:09:08,990 They're just starting from a higher baseline. 152 00:09:09,950 --> 00:09:15,790 So they're they're basically, you know 20-30 forty years 153 00:09:15,790 --> 00:09:19,590 behind the rest of the world but they're going the same place 154 00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:23,670 right. And and and that's actually. 155 00:09:24,250 --> 00:09:29,490 See, like as as bad as it is in the United States where we have, 156 00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:33,890 you know, some infrastructure and some automation and and and, 157 00:09:34,690 --> 00:09:37,410 you know, ways of taking care of the elderly. 158 00:09:38,170 --> 00:09:41,930 It's going to be way worse in countries that are already poor 159 00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:44,730 and already struggling to take care of their elderly. 160 00:09:44,890 --> 00:09:48,210 And then what do you do when instead of having you know five 161 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:52,370 workers for every elderly person, that ratio is inverted? 162 00:09:53,430 --> 00:09:54,670 Right. And there's just, I mean it's 163 00:09:54,670 --> 00:09:58,510 it's you can it can get really dark when you start having that 164 00:09:58,510 --> 00:10:01,630 conversation. So on a global population level, 165 00:10:02,150 --> 00:10:05,350 Africa and the Middle East are still contributing to an overall 166 00:10:05,350 --> 00:10:09,550 increase in global population, but that trend is about to tip 167 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:13,990 and that the the net effect will be a total global decrease in 168 00:10:13,990 --> 00:10:18,550 population by 2050, you said. Yeah. 169 00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:24,200 So in in in 2050 it will be. The only countries that will be 170 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,840 growing will be in sub-Saharan Africa and and the population 171 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,160 decline overall is going to start in the in the late twenty 172 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,960 20s early twenty 30s. What is the rate of population 173 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,400 decline in the United States specifically? 174 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:45,560 So we have roughly like 1.7 TFR. So that's total fertility. 175 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:49,440 So that's that's assuming the number of babies born right now 176 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,040 if you assume that every woman had children. 177 00:10:52,540 --> 00:10:54,980 At the same rate that they're currently having children right 178 00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:58,140 now, how many babies would that woman have for her entire life? 179 00:10:59,180 --> 00:11:00,900 And right now that number is 1.78. 180 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:08,220 Replacement fertility is 2.1, so so that's that's fairly rapid 181 00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:10,180 decline. I can give you like the most 182 00:11:10,180 --> 00:11:14,740 extreme population decline right now is happening in Korea, and 183 00:11:14,740 --> 00:11:21,730 Korea has a point a 0.8 TFR. Which roughly means that for 184 00:11:21,730 --> 00:11:26,530 every 100 Koreans alive today, there will be between 4:00 to 185 00:11:26,530 --> 00:11:31,450 6:00 great grandchildren. So that's that's essentially 186 00:11:31,450 --> 00:11:35,450 like extinction, right, That's that's the the sort of 187 00:11:35,450 --> 00:11:39,890 evaporation of of of Korean culture as it currently exists 188 00:11:40,170 --> 00:11:43,890 and what what is the current population estimation like 8 189 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:47,840 billion or something like that? Yeah, it's, it's, it's around 190 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,680 there and it's probably going to top out at around 10 billion, 10 191 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:55,880 billion and then at 2050, what is the forecasted population at 192 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,000 that point? So it's it's probably going to 193 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,520 be around where it is now and declining, but it will be a 194 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,360 significant like what what people sort of miss when they 195 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,680 talk about population decline is that it's not just that the 196 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,360 population will go down, but that the population will go down 197 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,680 and get significantly older. So you imagine if we had. 198 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:25,240 A population the same size but maybe like, you know, 2030% more 199 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:32,080 elderly people who are sort of pulling on state benefits, not 200 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,720 able to work and and and not gonna have babies. 201 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:36,720 Yeah, that's the other piece of it. 202 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,080 And then and then you've got the young people under those 203 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,680 circumstances. I mean, this is what you see in 204 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,600 Japan. This what they call the lost 205 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,520 decade of Japan. It's not that they like. 206 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,360 Mismanage their economy per SE, and that's why they haven't had 207 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,240 growth. It's because they've been in a 208 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,680 state of population decline since the 1970s and eventually 209 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:02,360 the workforce gets old. The the power dynamics of the 210 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:08,600 workplace change when when you've got essentially lots of 211 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,600 old folks in in entrenched positions who vote and who. 212 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,360 Frankly, don't innovate as much as 20 and 30 year olds do. 213 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:24,080 And and so these young, these young people who are the, the 214 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,120 type of young Japanese people who would start families are 215 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,920 under this tremendous professional and and tax 216 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,440 pressure because they've got to, they've got to pay the bills of 217 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,160 sort of the the pensioners and they've also got to work in 218 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,200 these environments where there's just like not a lot of room at 219 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,320 the top. Not a lot of room to to expand 220 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,040 and grow. What do you think the main 221 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,080 driving factor is for this decline in population? 222 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:58,200 Is it just societal changes? Is it economics? 223 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,840 Like, what do you think the underlying driver is? 224 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:10,520 I I think a lot of it is just cultural in terms of what we 225 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,310 value, what we want. To happen I I think, I think to 226 00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:22,030 some extent men and women. The idea of marriage as a as a 227 00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:27,710 project where in a man and woman would like mutually trust each 228 00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:32,350 other enough to start families that has really broken down. 229 00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:37,030 And I mean and and and a lot of it has to do with our different 230 00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:39,550 incentive structures. So, like women? 231 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:47,100 Their 20s are this incredibly valuable time in their life in 232 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:49,820 terms of like career development, in terms of like 233 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:54,340 just just sort of people like treating you well because you're 234 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:57,100 attractive and you're young and it's just it's very valued in 235 00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:02,300 the culture and you know you can you can travel and do all these 236 00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:08,020 things and that's precisely the time when sort of for for 237 00:15:08,020 --> 00:15:10,300 replacement fertility to happen, these women would need to be 238 00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:13,120 like. Finding a fella and and and 239 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,920 having babies, which involves a lot of work and a lot of 240 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:23,280 sacrifice and a lot of trust in that guy because as the two get 241 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,800 older, you know his his stock doesn't necessarily go down at 242 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,760 the same rate hers does his especially if she elects to have 243 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,120 like, I mean basically if you want to have more than say three 244 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,030 kids. I mean really more than two, but 245 00:15:40,030 --> 00:15:45,830 certainly more than three kids. Eventually the economics of a 2 246 00:15:45,830 --> 00:15:49,790 income family breakdown, it stops making sense to send like 247 00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:54,750 3 or 4 kids to daycare. So a parent's going to stay 248 00:15:54,750 --> 00:15:56,390 home. It's probably going to be mom 249 00:15:56,750 --> 00:16:02,070 and and so in order for that to happen, Mom's got to believe 250 00:16:02,070 --> 00:16:09,480 that she can trust dad to. Take care of her and the family 251 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:15,440 and and not sort of wield that economic power over her and then 252 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,120 when when they're done raising their kids that he'll stick 253 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,680 around and she would like like so much of so much of what's 254 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:26,440 happened in terms of like women going to college and starting 255 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,400 career has has been about like we this is an arrangement that 256 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,960 we can no longer trust like we it's it's it's no longer. 257 00:16:35,860 --> 00:16:42,020 A a a safe bet or a smart bet to like put all your chips in in a 258 00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:48,100 man to take care of you and and so I think a huge dimension of 259 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:52,100 that and and basically like so so like we're saying like for 260 00:16:52,100 --> 00:17:00,260 any families to have greater than oops sorry for any of any 261 00:17:00,260 --> 00:17:02,460 families to have greater than replacement fertility greater 262 00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:07,040 than two kids. Someone's got to basically stay 263 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,240 home and and and the the family unit has to has to act in 264 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,040 concert. It can't be sort of two 265 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:19,599 individuals sort of autonomously pursuing their own interest like 266 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:24,079 it doesn't work that way. And so go ahead. 267 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:29,040 You think this cultural shift is more prominent in the US? 268 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,760 Or is this same phenomenon occurring across all the 269 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,350 countries? Oh, it's it's actually 270 00:17:34,350 --> 00:17:36,310 significantly worse than like Korea and Japan. 271 00:17:37,390 --> 00:17:42,110 The the the people's skepticism about marriage and family, 272 00:17:42,110 --> 00:17:45,390 people's commitment to their career, the amount of time they 273 00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:51,550 spend at work and with and with Co workers way higher in Korea 274 00:17:51,550 --> 00:17:54,430 and Japan. What about China? 275 00:17:54,430 --> 00:17:55,630 What's China looking like right now? 276 00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:58,230 Yeah, China, China, very similar. 277 00:17:58,390 --> 00:18:00,350 I mean, you know, they had the one child policy and they tried 278 00:18:00,350 --> 00:18:02,790 to reverse it, but people had already sort of re. 279 00:18:03,790 --> 00:18:09,190 Calibrated their sort of life expectations to in this sort of 280 00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:15,630 sense of what life was about to toward career and and and China 281 00:18:15,630 --> 00:18:19,670 by the way is going to have a much harder time with 282 00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:22,230 demographic decline for that same reason that we talked about 283 00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:25,030 cause like Japan they've got they've got lots of money 284 00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:29,110 they've got you know significant automation of their 285 00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:31,750 manufacturing significant automation of elder care. 286 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:37,270 If if there's a best case for demographic decline, it's 287 00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:42,150 probably Japan. But China doesn't have nearly 288 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:45,910 the kind of resources per capita that Japan does to take care of 289 00:18:45,910 --> 00:18:49,510 its elderly population. And and and yeah, it's, it's 290 00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:55,670 very much a, it's very much become an individualist, 291 00:18:56,670 --> 00:19:01,390 consumerist culture, the same as the US and Japan and Korea and 292 00:19:01,390 --> 00:19:05,160 Western Europe. It's that that appears to be the 293 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,680 the common denominator and people people often attribute it 294 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,000 to women's education. They say like that that's what 295 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,440 causes fertility to decline and and like Bill Gates Foundation, 296 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,840 they'll say like, oh it's actually good, like we need to 297 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,160 educate these women so that they'll have less kids because 298 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,760 having less kids is is a desirable outcome. 299 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,720 But I actually think that. Women's education. 300 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,120 In this case, like, I I don't think it's the case that, like, 301 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,200 women learn something in college that makes them want fewer kids. 302 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,360 I I think what happens is that attendance in college is a proxy 303 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:48,840 for women embarking on this individual career journey that's 304 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,440 just incompatible with having kids. 305 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,080 Because when you ask, when you ask women, how many kids do you 306 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,410 want to have? Like 95% of them say they want 307 00:19:58,410 --> 00:20:03,770 kids and the family sizes once, once, once you have your first 308 00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:07,370 child, family sizes are very similar to what they were in 309 00:20:07,370 --> 00:20:11,330 like the 1960s and 1970s. It's it's it's not a problem 310 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:13,610 that like people are still getting married, but they're 311 00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:15,250 like electing to have fewer kids. 312 00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:18,050 What's actually happening is that people are not getting 313 00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:20,450 married and people are just having zero kids. 314 00:20:21,050 --> 00:20:28,560 So it's it's this epidemic of. Not not necessarily like fewer 315 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,800 kids but unplanned childlessness as a whole people and and and in 316 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,560 most cases it's like 10% medical like you know biological 317 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,840 infertility. In 10% of cases it's women who 318 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,520 say like, no, I actually, I I chose this. 319 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,320 I I I did not want to have. I did not want to have kids. 320 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,520 I planned my life around it. This is where we are. 321 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,520 But the other 80% of women who don't have kids basically say, 322 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:59,080 like I I couldn't find the right guy or you know, my my other 323 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,600 ambitions kind of got in the way and I ran out of time. 324 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:08,720 And it's, it's it's the the vast majority of of childless women. 325 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,840 That wasn't the plan for them. That wasn't what they wanted. 326 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,320 And so for me, the solution is and like like a lot of times 327 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,880 this, this debate is characterized as sort of like 328 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,950 pitting, you know, women's interests against the good of 329 00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:26,430 society. But I that's not what what I'm 330 00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:31,230 about is like, let's take these women who say they want kids who 331 00:21:31,230 --> 00:21:36,110 who, who, who intended to have kids, and let's figure out if we 332 00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:37,670 can make that easier for them to do. 333 00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:41,070 Let's figure out if we can open up opportunities or or make it 334 00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:46,630 less scary or or less risky to make this choice that's so 335 00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:49,720 important to make. I would imagine, I mean if it's 336 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,160 it's 80% that's that's cultural phenomenon that that's obviously 337 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,360 the the vast majority. I would imagine that medical, 338 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,160 you know, 10% chart of the pie there is also growing at a 339 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,080 pretty quick rate considering how many people. 340 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,040 And maybe this is because I'm I'm kind of living in a 341 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,920 nutrition vacuum so to speak and most of the people I'm talking 342 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,640 with are talking in terms of nutrition and fertility rates 343 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,480 and whatnot and they're coming at it from the angle of people 344 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,990 just aren't as fertile due to. You know, malnourishment, 345 00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:21,510 heavily processed foods, things of that nature. 346 00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:23,950 But I would imagine that number is growing at a pretty quick 347 00:22:23,950 --> 00:22:26,350 clip. No, it absolutely is. 348 00:22:26,350 --> 00:22:30,110 And studies I've seen is basically that that sperm counts 349 00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:33,270 are declining by 1% per year, which is that may not seem like 350 00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:37,070 a ton, but it's catastrophic over even you know 20 years. 351 00:22:37,790 --> 00:22:41,550 And I I I can't remember the exact figure but it's it's 352 00:22:41,550 --> 00:22:45,910 something like by by by 20402050 if that trend continues the 353 00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:49,620 average sperm count will be 0 essentially. 354 00:22:49,620 --> 00:22:56,620 So you'll you'll have half half the population with like no 355 00:22:56,620 --> 00:23:01,980 sperm at all. And so it's it's it's that's 356 00:23:01,980 --> 00:23:04,780 that that element of it, the the biomedical element of it is a 357 00:23:04,780 --> 00:23:09,100 crisis that's that's going to be a huge problem And it is 358 00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:11,740 apparently linked to and I actually think that the 359 00:23:11,740 --> 00:23:14,740 psychological side of this and the social side of it is linked 360 00:23:14,780 --> 00:23:18,550 to to to the biological side of it. 361 00:23:18,550 --> 00:23:27,350 Like I I think that people's people's hormonal if the effect 362 00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:30,590 on their moods, the effect on their their attraction and what 363 00:23:30,590 --> 00:23:34,390 like how intensely they feel desire and and the kind of 364 00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:38,510 people that they're attracted to that's unambiguously a function 365 00:23:38,510 --> 00:23:40,670 of their sort of hormonal environment. 366 00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:44,670 And when you mess that up, you, you not only mess up 367 00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:47,790 potentially, they're like biological ability to have 368 00:23:47,790 --> 00:23:50,910 children. But maybe you mess up like the 369 00:23:50,910 --> 00:23:54,710 guy who, the guy who would have gone up and talked to that girl. 370 00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:57,070 Maybe he just doesn't feel it intensely enough and doesn't 371 00:23:57,070 --> 00:23:59,630 like, feel confident enough. And all the stuff that 372 00:23:59,630 --> 00:24:02,550 testosterone does to a guy just doesn't happen for him. 373 00:24:02,910 --> 00:24:04,830 And so he sort of misses his chance. 374 00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:08,190 You know, I think it's all interconnected for sure, and it 375 00:24:08,190 --> 00:24:12,290 seems as though. The the people that are having 376 00:24:12,290 --> 00:24:17,570 kids, there seems to be a a much greater acceptance of divorce 377 00:24:17,570 --> 00:24:19,090 now than there used to be as well. 378 00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:22,330 Like that's just in the cards, whereas before it seemingly 379 00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:24,930 wasn't as much of an option. So you've the people that are 380 00:24:24,930 --> 00:24:28,890 having kids are often times leaving them in broken homes 381 00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:31,930 with separated parents. So even though we have fewer 382 00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:34,970 kids, they're they're having less of a foundational, you 383 00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:36,730 know, good home life to to stem from. 384 00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:39,690 So it's kind of a catastrophic on all fronts it seems. 385 00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:43,060 Yeah. And I mean that that that speaks 386 00:24:43,060 --> 00:24:47,260 to the the trust issue. Like if you know, there's 387 00:24:47,260 --> 00:24:54,740 there's there's a lot of problems with a social stigma on 388 00:24:54,740 --> 00:25:00,100 divorce, right. Like, it's not great to to like, 389 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:04,580 shun people, make them feel awful about this really awful 390 00:25:05,060 --> 00:25:11,130 thing to begin with. Yeah, but it is the case that 391 00:25:11,450 --> 00:25:18,210 when there is a sort of stigma around something like that, it 392 00:25:18,210 --> 00:25:22,210 makes people feel more confident in in making the decision. 393 00:25:22,210 --> 00:25:28,850 Like, because because the the the math of, like how hard do 394 00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:31,770 things have to get in my marriage before I have to worry 395 00:25:31,770 --> 00:25:37,010 about, like divorce. That math changes if there's 396 00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:43,120 like no social, no legal, no, no consequences for it, right? 397 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,200 Like it does. It's it's just it's incredibly 398 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,480 easy to do. And therefore it's like what has 399 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,200 to happen? Does it have to be 1 bad day? 400 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,280 How How bad does that day have to be? 401 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,960 And then and then you're sort of thinking, you know, the the the 402 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,480 young people who are contemplating marriage, they're 403 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,320 sort of doing that math and like, well, you know, if it's 404 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:10,570 that easy and it and and and it can really just be this 405 00:26:10,570 --> 00:26:17,170 impulsive or this frankly, like flippant decision, then OK, 406 00:26:17,170 --> 00:26:19,370 maybe I'll get married if I find the right person. 407 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:24,090 But I'm certainly not gonna set aside my education to have 408 00:26:24,090 --> 00:26:28,210 children with this person. Like obviously that'd be insane. 409 00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:34,530 And and yeah, so so people's. People's a bit like I guess 410 00:26:34,530 --> 00:26:41,150 where I would sum that up is like social structures that 411 00:26:41,150 --> 00:26:44,590 encouraged marriage in the past were not optimal like there 412 00:26:44,590 --> 00:26:47,350 were, there were, there were things that were bad about that 413 00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:50,510 and and and a lot of pain involved in that. 414 00:26:52,030 --> 00:27:00,030 But people having no ability to like count on, count on their 415 00:27:00,030 --> 00:27:03,710 their spouse, count on the society to sort of help them 416 00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:08,180 stay together. But there's better ways to help 417 00:27:08,180 --> 00:27:11,020 them stay together but but they need help to stay together, 418 00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:12,340 right? Totally. 419 00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:18,020 And and it it, it actually does matter what the community thinks 420 00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:22,020 about marriage. I wholeheartedly agree when it 421 00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:26,780 comes to, you know, the economic front, the infrastructure side 422 00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:30,780 of things, you know, all that was based on a an increasing 423 00:27:30,780 --> 00:27:33,420 growth rate. Are there some? 424 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,720 Benefits to the population decline, Like when you look at 425 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,000 it from a food sourcing standpoint, you know, like 426 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,480 there's all this debate in my circles around what could we 427 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:50,360 sustainably produce as a species to feed the population with 428 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,360 quality nutrition And. And that's why, you know, mono 429 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:56,160 crop agriculture's getting a lot of kickback, regenerative 430 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,400 agriculture got a lot of kickback. 431 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,160 There's all these different situations in which people 432 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,080 trying to figure out how to feed the population at its current 433 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,470 level. If the population were declining 434 00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:11,710 as it's predicted to be, could that be a benefit in that regard 435 00:28:11,870 --> 00:28:15,350 or is the net outcome going to be negative across the board? 436 00:28:16,110 --> 00:28:24,230 Well, I think that it's hard, it's hard to find a variable on 437 00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:27,950 which like things will be better for the world overall under 438 00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:29,590 conditions of population decline. 439 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:44,360 You know for for instance when when the like the people who who 440 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,360 sort of require the most food aid, the areas of the earth that 441 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,120 require the most food aid, it's not necessarily the fact that 442 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,800 like they're actually outstripping the carrying 443 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,590 capacity of their environment. Like African can feed itself. 444 00:29:00,590 --> 00:29:02,030 That's not, that's not really the issue. 445 00:29:02,430 --> 00:29:06,350 The issue is political instability and poverty and and 446 00:29:06,590 --> 00:29:10,070 war and all these things that that cause a need for food aid 447 00:29:10,790 --> 00:29:19,950 and the loss of human capital and the loss of know how. 448 00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:24,670 I mean just you just look at the boomer generation and how much 449 00:29:24,670 --> 00:29:32,220 they know about maintaining and developing the infrastructure 450 00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:35,300 that all these systems depend on, the, the, the mechanization 451 00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:38,260 of of agriculture. And like, you know, obviously 452 00:29:38,980 --> 00:29:43,580 there's problems with industrial agriculture, but like tractors 453 00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:44,940 are probably pretty great, right? 454 00:29:44,940 --> 00:29:46,740 Like, it's probably good that we have tractors. 455 00:29:46,980 --> 00:29:52,580 Yeah I like tractors and and and combines and and like there's 456 00:29:52,580 --> 00:29:57,870 there's all sorts of elements of modern agriculture that that 457 00:29:57,870 --> 00:30:00,830 potentially become harder to make and and and harder to 458 00:30:00,830 --> 00:30:06,710 maintain as the as the know how to maintain them dies out and 459 00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:11,550 and isn't necessarily passed on. Now I will say like there are 460 00:30:11,550 --> 00:30:15,590 there are going to be winners and losers right in in every 461 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:17,030 situation. Like I don't, I don't think 462 00:30:17,030 --> 00:30:19,390 there's there's anything that's going to be great for the whole 463 00:30:19,390 --> 00:30:26,620 planet with this problem. But people who have technical 464 00:30:26,620 --> 00:30:30,540 skills and skills and automation, they're going to be 465 00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:36,860 in higher demand. People who companies that invest 466 00:30:36,860 --> 00:30:39,660 in elder care, they're going to be in higher demand. 467 00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:41,420 And that's one of the things that I want to do at the 468 00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:44,460 conference. I want to, I want to address 469 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:46,300 like, yes, are there global solutions? 470 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:48,140 Are there, are there big picture things we can do to solve this 471 00:30:48,140 --> 00:30:52,020 problem? But as individuals are there 472 00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:55,910 investments that we can make that will make our families 473 00:30:55,910 --> 00:30:59,030 better off under these conditions because it's going to 474 00:30:59,030 --> 00:31:01,070 be really hard for for everybody. 475 00:31:01,510 --> 00:31:05,390 But but there's still smart investments you can make. 476 00:31:05,390 --> 00:31:09,750 I mean for for one thing this is maybe a a a perfect example of 477 00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:11,630 this is like the real estate market. 478 00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:19,430 Like the problem is going to be that the real estate market is 479 00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:22,230 just not going to be a store of value the way that it was for 480 00:31:22,790 --> 00:31:29,160 our parents and our grandparents because the sort of periphery of 481 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,800 all these cities is just going to hollow out as there's just no 482 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:37,920 kids to raise families in them. But the upside of that is real 483 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,320 estate will be cheap. It's you know for for every, for 484 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,680 every seller there's a buyer, right? 485 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,560 Like there's a there's a there's a buyer side to that equation. 486 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,400 So. So yes, certain things will get 487 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,720 will get less expensive and and easier to obtain. 488 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,280 So the the gap between the haves and the have nots will likely 489 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,040 increase substantially. Yes. 490 00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,920 Yes, that is absolutely the case. 491 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:04,760 I mean because you know, you sort of imagine the what was the 492 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,640 smart move if you lived in Detroit as it was hollowing out. 493 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,160 Well, you'd want to sell your house as quickly as possible. 494 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,760 And if you couldn't if you couldn't sell it and and 495 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,120 basically you'd be selling it at A at A at a a pretty serious 496 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:24,790 loss to go move into you know the core of the city where the 497 00:32:24,790 --> 00:32:27,750 infrastructure's a little bit better and there's you know sort 498 00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:29,590 of police protection's a little bit easier to get. 499 00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:34,710 And and I I essentially see that that as being a trend across the 500 00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:36,990 board as populations decline they're gonna, they're gonna 501 00:32:36,990 --> 00:32:40,750 sort of abandoned the periphery of the cities and move closer to 502 00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:44,310 the center. Which means if you're sort of 503 00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:49,970 the the people who own that extremely this the the the real 504 00:32:49,970 --> 00:32:52,090 estate that's extremely high value in the core of these 505 00:32:52,090 --> 00:32:54,730 cities will probably stay extremely high value. 506 00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:57,970 And a lot of middle class people whose retirements depended on 507 00:32:57,970 --> 00:33:02,210 sort of the value of their suburban home are going to have 508 00:33:02,210 --> 00:33:06,490 a real rough ride. Yeah, I'm, I might be doing the 509 00:33:06,490 --> 00:33:08,010 exact OPS. I might be moving out in the 510 00:33:08,010 --> 00:33:11,210 country even further. Well, right and and that's 511 00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:15,320 that's sort of the IT, it depends on like what kind of a 512 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,920 bet you're making, right? Like if, if, if the bet you're 513 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,680 making is is like your home as a financial investment that's you 514 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,400 know iffy. But if if you're, if you're 515 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,800 trying to get out to the country so that you can be more sort of 516 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,880 self-sufficient, more independent, you know connecting 517 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,280 with a different kind of people that's that's a whole different 518 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,680 story, right. Like that's sort of a non 519 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,640 financial decision. So so what's the solution to 520 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,560 this this pretty paramount problem and like what do people 521 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,000 need to do individually and what do people need to do, you know, 522 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,520 in tandem with society? Like what what is the what, what 523 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,280 catalyst can be can be activated to make this trend improve upon 524 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,240 itself? Yeah. 525 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:08,280 So essentially the the most important thing in my opinion is 526 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,300 to get together with other people who care about this and 527 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:18,500 and who are you know like I I I guess to to be frank it's like 528 00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:22,020 you need to find people who want to have kids so that you can 529 00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:24,900 have like if you're if you're single you need to be around the 530 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:28,500 kind of people who want to have a family which is increasingly 531 00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:31,300 sort of hard to find and and the kind of people for whom there's 532 00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:33,860 like a framework in which marriage and and and children 533 00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:38,260 make sense. And if you have a family and you 534 00:34:38,260 --> 00:34:43,530 have kids as I do, I want to be around other families that are 535 00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:47,449 raising their kids with the kinds of values that produce 536 00:34:47,449 --> 00:34:51,610 kids who want kids because I want my kids to have kids of 537 00:34:51,610 --> 00:34:56,929 their own. And and so I think sort of what 538 00:34:56,929 --> 00:35:00,610 what I'm the basic thing I'm trying to accomplish with the 539 00:35:00,610 --> 00:35:05,250 natalism conference is just to shoot up a flare and say hey is 540 00:35:05,250 --> 00:35:09,350 anybody else out here. And and we've had, I mean the 541 00:35:09,350 --> 00:35:11,550 the guests who are going to be attending this conference are 542 00:35:11,550 --> 00:35:13,190 really spectacular. We've got geneticists. 543 00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:16,670 We've got demographers. We've got you know culture 544 00:35:16,670 --> 00:35:21,630 commentators and and people who are really concerned about this 545 00:35:21,630 --> 00:35:23,590 issue and have a lot of expertise and a lot of 546 00:35:23,590 --> 00:35:26,110 understanding of how how it works and how it's going 547 00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:33,270 investors and and we're going to be getting together to try to 548 00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:36,190 solve this problem globally but also individually. 549 00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:42,480 And I think that that alone is a huge part of the solution. 550 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,520 It's just sort of connecting with other people who care about 551 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,200 this. But in terms of like policy 552 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:55,120 prescriptions, I think you have to de risk marriage and family a 553 00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:01,080 little bit and you know the the the the traditional ways of 554 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,870 doing that of just like sort of being cruel to people who do it 555 00:36:05,870 --> 00:36:08,470 is is probably not the solution. But there's but there has to be 556 00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:13,390 some way of of making it reforming the the sort of legal 557 00:36:13,390 --> 00:36:16,950 arrangement of marriage such that it's less risky. 558 00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:23,190 I think you also have to address the way people find partners. 559 00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:27,670 I mean Tinder, the whole business model of Tinder is you 560 00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:29,790 know the the moment that you're happy, they lose you as a 561 00:36:29,790 --> 00:36:33,780 customer, right. And so the incentive is to keep 562 00:36:33,780 --> 00:36:39,500 you on this treadmill and and as as sort of as sort of like sad 563 00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:45,860 and lonely as possible and and so we've we've got a guy coming 564 00:36:45,860 --> 00:36:49,740 to the group who's a a founder of a novel dating app concept. 565 00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:56,140 Those kinds of like cultural solutions I think I think are 566 00:36:56,140 --> 00:36:59,300 going to matter quite a lot. I do think that there's we've 567 00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:03,250 got, we've got you know some some medical professionals 568 00:37:03,250 --> 00:37:06,330 coming who are going to talk about the biological infertility 569 00:37:06,330 --> 00:37:09,090 issue. So basically it's about finding 570 00:37:09,090 --> 00:37:18,690 the people who already want kids and are struggling to have them 571 00:37:19,330 --> 00:37:21,850 because there's a lot of them like that's that's you know if 572 00:37:21,850 --> 00:37:26,210 it's 80% of of so, so it's 40% of millennials are not going to 573 00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:28,490 have kids which is a crazy number. 574 00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:31,690 It is crazy. That's that's my, that's my 575 00:37:31,690 --> 00:37:34,330 generation, my high school graduating class. 576 00:37:34,330 --> 00:37:38,010 I'm 36 and and my high school graduating class is basically, 577 00:37:38,050 --> 00:37:42,170 you know, kind of coming to the end of the the the women's sort 578 00:37:42,170 --> 00:37:45,690 of main fertility window where they're likely to have kids. 579 00:37:46,690 --> 00:37:49,490 Particularly if you haven't had one kid by, like if you had one 580 00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:51,770 kid by then having another is not so hard. 581 00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:54,090 But if you've never had a kid by then, it's really, really 582 00:37:54,090 --> 00:37:55,890 challenging to have your first at that age. 583 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,720 It is strange. I mean like you were talking 584 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:03,680 about earlier the just the societal pressure and incentive 585 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:09,920 for young females to have this very career minded focus that 586 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,560 often times does not equate to rearing a family. 587 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,360 Like I look at my my wife and you know we have a son, 15 month 588 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:19,880 old son. We're planning on having more 589 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,560 but it's like it seems as though you know her raising. 590 00:38:26,020 --> 00:38:31,060 Him staying at home that that that seems to be a very, you 591 00:38:31,060 --> 00:38:34,660 know, non traditionalist approach these days where it's 592 00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:36,940 it's pretty pretty traditional when you think about it. 593 00:38:36,940 --> 00:38:39,420 You know if you rewind the clock to like the parents generation, 594 00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:41,620 but like that is not the norm these days. 595 00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:44,980 It seems like it's it's been rather difficult for us to find 596 00:38:45,460 --> 00:38:48,420 other people of the same age demographic that are in a 597 00:38:48,420 --> 00:38:51,540 similar chapter in life, because that just doesn't seem to be the 598 00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:53,580 norm. Right. 599 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:56,600 Right. And and it it's one of the 600 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,920 things that demographers have found is that fertility is 601 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,920 highly contagious, that you know it one lady in the friend group 602 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,400 has has a baby or becomes pregnant and then all of a 603 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,640 sudden like three or four in the in the friend group. 604 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,800 Like that's something that people have anecdotally noticed. 605 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,800 But like demographers have looked at the data and they've 606 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,080 been like, no, that actually happens. 607 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:24,760 And so I think there is a lot of value in sort of tipping over 608 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,560 the scales there a little bit and and you know, making it 609 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,680 higher status to do and 'cause I mean like the the sort of the 610 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,640 the mean. Well, it's like we we sort of 611 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,280 talked about the cruelty behind like enforcing marriage norms, 612 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,120 but there's also a cruelty behind you know, enforcing these 613 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,160 career norms as well. I mean you know my wife has been 614 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,180 treated with pretty serious disrespect by some people for 615 00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:59,380 her decision to to to raise our family and and I think, you know 616 00:40:00,380 --> 00:40:04,980 it's I don't know if that's like a just a law of the universe 617 00:40:04,980 --> 00:40:07,060 that you just can't you can't escape that people are just 618 00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:08,700 going to be mean no matter what the rules are. 619 00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:14,820 But, but yeah, I think the more you can surround people with an 620 00:40:14,820 --> 00:40:18,460 environment where it is high status and it is, you know. 621 00:40:19,110 --> 00:40:22,870 It's talked about why it's why it's cool and and and and the 622 00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:26,350 value of it. It's really easy to complain. 623 00:40:27,230 --> 00:40:31,630 And I I think, I think part of the problem is that like 624 00:40:33,350 --> 00:40:36,350 complaining about your family and complaining about how hard 625 00:40:36,350 --> 00:40:39,390 it is and and like what a what a hero you are for enduring it. 626 00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:45,790 That's sort of the the the popular narrative around raising 627 00:40:45,790 --> 00:40:51,690 a family for men and women and and so I just I don't know I I 628 00:40:51,930 --> 00:40:54,770 me and my wife when when people talk about like oh boy you guys 629 00:40:54,770 --> 00:40:57,690 sure have your hands but we have six kids wow boy you guys. 630 00:40:57,690 --> 00:40:59,010 You guys sure have your hands full. 631 00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:03,370 You know my wife always is like yeah it's great it's it's 632 00:41:03,370 --> 00:41:08,090 wonderful have these these beautiful kids and to to just 633 00:41:08,090 --> 00:41:14,610 sort of never succumb to the because you know what people are 634 00:41:14,610 --> 00:41:17,250 expecting you to do they're they're sort of expecting you to 635 00:41:17,290 --> 00:41:20,770 to to put on those sort of exhausted like Oh yeah let me 636 00:41:20,770 --> 00:41:25,890 tell you about it. And I and I think just not doing 637 00:41:25,890 --> 00:41:27,930 that makes a difference to be honest with you. 638 00:41:28,610 --> 00:41:33,050 I've definitely had people that I've met who've who've, you 639 00:41:33,050 --> 00:41:38,090 know, meeting my kids gets them excited about having kids. 640 00:41:38,370 --> 00:41:40,610 And it's like, and that makes me feel great because I feel like 641 00:41:40,610 --> 00:41:42,770 I'm doing a good job. If I've got these kids that that 642 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,960 that are sweet and and good and happy and you know. 643 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:50,960 They'll be. They'll grow to become 644 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,560 contributing members of society. I mean that that is key. 645 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,800 I mean, I look at what my wife is doing and I'm just incredibly 646 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,880 proud to see her raising our son to the extent that she is. 647 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,080 And it's nothing but respect that I have heard. 648 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,600 Like I don't try and hold her under my thumb by any means. 649 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,960 And I don't feel like anybody should do that. 650 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,680 It's just such a. Cultural, societal shift that's 651 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,480 occurred. And I don't want to say that, 652 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,080 you know, I don't want to place judgement on anybody else. 653 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,080 I mean, everyone has to find their own life path. 654 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,240 But I feel like there's certainly should be no 655 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:26,840 disrespect associated with the woman that decides to stay home 656 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,920 and take care of the kids because that is a incredibly 657 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,320 demanding job in and of itself. And if you're raising quality 658 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,000 kids, I mean, it takes a ton of effort. 659 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:38,520 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 660 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:46,760 And I think part of the problem is that we have sort of embraced 661 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:53,720 an idea that if if work is worth anything, you ought to get paid. 662 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:00,320 And there's this whole I mean and and and you can see why why 663 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,800 governments why businesses would want people especially women to 664 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:13,100 think that because if if if your wife is is raising kids and 665 00:43:13,100 --> 00:43:16,100 educating them and and and being involved in your community. 666 00:43:17,380 --> 00:43:22,380 She's not paying income tax and she's not generating all this 667 00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:25,340 demand and she's doing she's doing things for free that 668 00:43:25,340 --> 00:43:27,860 otherwise a corporation might be able to monetize. 669 00:43:28,540 --> 00:43:34,780 And, and so if they can, if they can capture all of that energy 670 00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:39,100 that she's generating and all of the good that she's doing and 671 00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:44,700 turn it into like revenue for the daycare, revenue for the TV 672 00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:47,140 dinners, revenue for, you know what I'm saying, Like just sort 673 00:43:47,140 --> 00:43:55,020 of all of it being taxable, you can see why there's an incentive 674 00:43:55,140 --> 00:43:57,900 to encourage this narrative of like, oh, no, you should, you 675 00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:00,860 should be at work. That's where the real you know, 676 00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:05,500 that's where real life is. Yeah, how much of this, this. 677 00:44:05,540 --> 00:44:07,820 This may be a a slight detour here, but. 678 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,000 How much of this do you think is ingrained in like biblical 679 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,120 beliefs and things of that nature? 680 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,160 Because it's, I mean, I'm in Arkansas, so I'm like in the 681 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,000 middle of the Bible Belt. So this seems to be a lot more 682 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,640 accepting for those traditionalist minded people 683 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,240 that want to kind of stay more in line with that philosophy of, 684 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,040 you know, parenting and raising kids, you know, things of that 685 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,400 nature. Whereas if you go out to like we 686 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,080 were just in New York this past weekend, it seems to be that. 687 00:44:37,570 --> 00:44:40,890 You know those demographics are much less traditional from a 688 00:44:40,890 --> 00:44:44,930 biblical sense and therefore much more prone to not want to 689 00:44:44,930 --> 00:44:47,570 have the kids be more career focused etcetera, etcetera. 690 00:44:47,570 --> 00:44:50,850 Like with regards to your approach to this and what not, 691 00:44:50,850 --> 00:44:53,050 do you try to keep those completely separate or do you 692 00:44:53,050 --> 00:44:56,490 think they're intertwined or how how much of that is is affecting 693 00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:59,370 societal and cultural beliefs around having kids? 694 00:45:00,330 --> 00:45:05,970 Yeah, I mean I think, I think what is happening essentially is 695 00:45:07,370 --> 00:45:12,650 you've got people behaving rationally in the face of 696 00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:16,930 incentives and like the the sort of the sort of financial and 697 00:45:16,930 --> 00:45:20,090 social incentives are strongly against having children. 698 00:45:21,210 --> 00:45:29,730 And so you need a you need an incentive that is non rational 699 00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:33,890 or pre rational. That's like, yeah, this is gonna 700 00:45:33,890 --> 00:45:35,330 be hard. This is gonna be harder than 701 00:45:35,330 --> 00:45:37,290 some other things I could do, but I'm gonna do it anyway. 702 00:45:39,730 --> 00:45:46,210 And I'm I'm increasingly needing some secular people who have 703 00:45:46,210 --> 00:45:49,090 found their way to caring about this for other reasons. 704 00:45:49,730 --> 00:45:52,290 But yeah, in general I think it's overwhelmingly religious 705 00:45:52,290 --> 00:45:58,690 people. And and I mean like in I, I 706 00:45:58,690 --> 00:46:01,850 actually did a little amateur analysis of my high school 707 00:46:01,850 --> 00:46:05,550 graduating class of like because because we're we're sort of 708 00:46:05,550 --> 00:46:09,630 coming to the end of of our our our childbearing age. 709 00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:19,070 And yeah, the the few people who are having three plus kids are 710 00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:23,350 first of all it's like it's like 14% of my high school graduating 711 00:46:23,350 --> 00:46:27,790 class has three or more kids at this point and they constitute 712 00:46:27,790 --> 00:46:35,800 like 48% of the total fertility. So like the new the next 713 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,800 generation that the generation of our children is 714 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:45,640 overwhelmingly represented by the, you know 14% of of of the 715 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,320 population that made that choice and they're all religious, all 716 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:56,480 of them. And so it's what will that mean 717 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,830 for the culture in, you know, 20 years when those kids grow up, 718 00:47:02,350 --> 00:47:06,390 if you can, if you can hold on to them, right, like, like at 719 00:47:06,430 --> 00:47:07,990 least. So the the way that the way that 720 00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:13,390 the the sort of secular progressive worldview has 721 00:47:13,390 --> 00:47:17,350 reproduced itself for the last, you know, 100 years or so has 722 00:47:17,350 --> 00:47:22,390 been by taking the children of of other cultures and and and 723 00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:23,670 assimilating them, converting them. 724 00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:30,900 So it it's it can't just be that, like religious people have 725 00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:34,340 the kids and and and they they get get to keep all them, 'cause 726 00:47:34,340 --> 00:47:36,340 they don't. That's not how it works. 727 00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:44,900 Having said that, this, this 14% of my high school graduating 728 00:47:44,900 --> 00:47:50,260 class, there was something unusual about them, right? 729 00:47:50,260 --> 00:47:52,340 Like that cause 'cause there were lots of religious people. 730 00:47:52,340 --> 00:47:54,940 I grew up in Texas. It was, you know, much more than 731 00:47:54,940 --> 00:47:57,900 14% of of my graduating class was was sort of raised in 732 00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:02,980 church. But there was something weird 733 00:48:03,260 --> 00:48:09,340 about us, this little cadre. And so, like, does that 734 00:48:09,340 --> 00:48:12,620 weirdness about us translate into something, like, weird 735 00:48:12,620 --> 00:48:14,620 about our kids, maybe even biologically? 736 00:48:14,620 --> 00:48:16,460 That's like, no, these are people who are just way more, 737 00:48:16,540 --> 00:48:22,540 like they're way more resistant to whatever whatever has caused 738 00:48:22,540 --> 00:48:27,650 people to buy into this story. Maybe, I think, I think that's I 739 00:48:27,650 --> 00:48:30,690 think that's likely. I I think you know, the the, 740 00:48:32,090 --> 00:48:35,330 the, the types of people that my kids and grandkids are going to 741 00:48:35,330 --> 00:48:37,690 grow up knowing is going to be a very different cohort than I 742 00:48:37,690 --> 00:48:40,770 grew up with because of who had all the babies. 743 00:48:41,370 --> 00:48:44,570 I think that that's key. I mean, people, it's very hard 744 00:48:44,570 --> 00:48:47,530 to have this incredible forward thinking mentality of OK, what 745 00:48:47,530 --> 00:48:51,930 is life going to be like for my kids and their kids? 746 00:48:52,540 --> 00:48:55,500 But that is absolutely of paramount importance cause like 747 00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:57,500 when I look at it from an epigenetic standpoint, I mean 748 00:48:57,500 --> 00:49:00,220 the foods that I'm consuming right now and that my wife are 749 00:49:00,220 --> 00:49:07,060 consuming impact, you know, the health of my son when he was 750 00:49:07,340 --> 00:49:10,140 conceived. And then that has an antigenetic 751 00:49:10,140 --> 00:49:12,660 effect for three generations or more deep. 752 00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:16,220 And that's just the nutritional component when you look at it 753 00:49:16,220 --> 00:49:18,500 from a societal and cultural component as well. 754 00:49:19,380 --> 00:49:23,510 You know what kind of. Kids and peer group are Are my 755 00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:26,150 kids and their kids and their kids going to be surrounded by 756 00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:29,510 what is the what? What's what's going to make life 757 00:49:29,830 --> 00:49:32,430 easier or harder for them? Like, people don't take the time 758 00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:35,670 to think like that, but it's crucial that they do because 759 00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:38,070 it's going to be shaped by their decisions today. 760 00:49:38,590 --> 00:49:42,190 And if we find ourselves living in a world in which the 761 00:49:42,190 --> 00:49:46,190 population is drastically declining and there is no 762 00:49:46,830 --> 00:49:50,840 incentive or desire to. Raise good quality kids, have 763 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:55,520 them in a good home, feed them properly and that just becomes 764 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,640 the norm. Then that's not gonna bode well 765 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,800 for us as a species, right? Right. 766 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,200 And the like. And to be clear like this is 767 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:09,680 this is maybe an admission against interest, but like the 768 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,560 incentives against having kids are gonna get stronger because 769 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,420 the voting population is going to get older. 770 00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:23,340 The the sort of demands on the benefit system are going to get 771 00:50:23,340 --> 00:50:26,180 stronger. It's going to it basically. 772 00:50:28,860 --> 00:50:32,740 People are going to have to grow up in a our our kids are going 773 00:50:32,740 --> 00:50:35,620 to grow up in a in a more challenging economic environment 774 00:50:35,620 --> 00:50:40,620 than we did. And so like to to inculcate the 775 00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:44,220 values that they need to still make the decision to raise 776 00:50:44,220 --> 00:50:47,270 families under that environment. That's a tall order. 777 00:50:47,590 --> 00:50:54,390 And so yeah, basically this is something that I have dedicated 778 00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:58,310 myself to pretty much entirely. I mean everything that I'm 779 00:50:58,310 --> 00:51:01,550 involved in is is sort of an attempt at addressing this 780 00:51:01,550 --> 00:51:05,510 problem. But yeah, I think it starts with 781 00:51:05,790 --> 00:51:10,350 and and and the the conference, the concept for it started when 782 00:51:10,350 --> 00:51:13,790 we just thought like hey it actually turns out that we know 783 00:51:13,790 --> 00:51:17,640 like you know all these people who were on that documentary, 784 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,320 the Tucker Carlson documentary, people who are are interested in 785 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,520 this and talking about this. We should try to get just the 786 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,120 smartest people we can think of to to get together and address 787 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,440 this problem. So day one's going to be a 788 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:32,000 standard symposium with with panels and and and and speakers 789 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,240 and reception sort of mix and mingle. 790 00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:40,280 But day 2 is going to be a a structured innovation workshop. 791 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,880 So we've got my partner Drew Gorham is involved in Stanford 792 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:50,640 Design School innovation workshops and this incredible 793 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,360 tool for like getting the right answers out of people. 794 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,360 Getting getting the best from a group. 795 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,560 And so you're going to be sitting across the table from 796 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:04,760 these experts and you're going to be able to like chew on any 797 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,240 of these problems whether and it's sort of whichever 1 catches 798 00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,570 your attention and you think is the most important, whether it's 799 00:52:11,570 --> 00:52:14,570 the cultural angle, whether it's the, the biomedical angle, it's 800 00:52:14,570 --> 00:52:18,050 policy. It's going to be a really 801 00:52:18,050 --> 00:52:20,970 exciting time. And my and my hope is that that 802 00:52:22,250 --> 00:52:25,770 at least you know two or three or four of these initiatives 803 00:52:25,770 --> 00:52:30,010 turns into something that you know some of the some of the 804 00:52:30,010 --> 00:52:33,450 investors who are going to be in the room will take an interest 805 00:52:33,450 --> 00:52:35,330 in and and and pick up and run with. 806 00:52:36,010 --> 00:52:42,020 So that's sort of the best way I could think of to to attack this 807 00:52:42,020 --> 00:52:44,100 problem. No, I think it's, it's 808 00:52:44,220 --> 00:52:46,460 incredibly admirable, man. Like I don't know of anybody 809 00:52:46,460 --> 00:52:49,500 else spearheading this topic. So I think what you're doing is 810 00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:53,980 profound and incredibly, you know, importance of 811 00:52:53,980 --> 00:52:57,300 significance. Are there any other groups or 812 00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:00,580 cohorts doing this or is this kind of like you just grabbing 813 00:53:01,060 --> 00:53:03,500 grabbing the bull by the horns and leading the tip of the spear 814 00:53:03,500 --> 00:53:06,140 here? Well, so we're the only 815 00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:11,020 conference on this topic of which I'm aware, although I will 816 00:53:11,020 --> 00:53:14,900 say I think I think Elon Musk recently went to one in like 817 00:53:14,900 --> 00:53:20,260 Hungary or something. So definitely would like to get 818 00:53:20,260 --> 00:53:22,460 Elon down here, 'cause he, I know he, I know he's concerned 819 00:53:22,460 --> 00:53:26,460 about this issue as well, but but no. 820 00:53:26,660 --> 00:53:29,620 So there's another group called pronatalist.org that's run by 821 00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:31,580 Malcolm and Simone Collins. They're actually going to be at 822 00:53:31,580 --> 00:53:34,860 the conference and they're they're attacking it from the 823 00:53:34,860 --> 00:53:37,220 education angle. They they they've they've got a 824 00:53:37,220 --> 00:53:38,580 lot of initiatives that they're working on. 825 00:53:38,580 --> 00:53:41,860 So it's like we're not we're not all alone out here. 826 00:53:42,500 --> 00:53:46,660 But as far as I know if you if you want to come to like a a, a 827 00:53:46,660 --> 00:53:51,340 symposium where the the major thinkers on this issue are going 828 00:53:51,340 --> 00:53:53,180 to be in the same room. I I think, I think we're the 829 00:53:53,180 --> 00:53:55,900 only game in town. And and when is the conference 830 00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:58,740 and how do people listening get involved, get tickets and 831 00:53:58,740 --> 00:54:01,820 attend? Yeah, it's it's natalism.org. 832 00:54:02,550 --> 00:54:06,830 That's and it's December 1st and 2nd in Austin, TX at the Line 833 00:54:06,830 --> 00:54:08,990 Hotel. You can get your tickets there 834 00:54:09,150 --> 00:54:14,870 for either day one or day one. And day two it's going to be, I 835 00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:19,830 mean really we we we sort of planned it around like if Elon 836 00:54:19,830 --> 00:54:23,270 Musk or Tucker Carlson or any of these other sort of like 837 00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:25,590 billionaires who care about this, if they showed up, we'd 838 00:54:25,590 --> 00:54:27,790 want to make them comfortable. So it's going to be really high 839 00:54:27,790 --> 00:54:34,390 end, great food, great environment and and and just 840 00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:38,230 some of the smartest people I'm aware of in the space to to talk 841 00:54:38,230 --> 00:54:39,110 to. So it's going to be a lot of 842 00:54:39,110 --> 00:54:41,150 fun. No, I think it's awesome and I 843 00:54:41,150 --> 00:54:45,030 think I think you know being forward thinking like this is, 844 00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:47,590 is crucial and I appreciate you doing this. 845 00:54:48,670 --> 00:54:51,670 It's not, not typically in my wheelhouse of discussion, but 846 00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:54,910 it's it's relevant when you look at everything on a symbiotic 847 00:54:54,910 --> 00:54:56,990 level and I really appreciate that you're bringing in. 848 00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:58,510 All the different components of it. 849 00:54:58,510 --> 00:55:01,870 You've got the cultural societal standpoint, you've got the the 850 00:55:01,870 --> 00:55:03,430 health and biomedical standpoint. 851 00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:06,310 You have the policy in the governmental standpoint because 852 00:55:06,310 --> 00:55:09,390 it all goes in tandem. So I think it only is, it's 853 00:55:09,390 --> 00:55:11,550 fitting that you've got all these experts from all the 854 00:55:11,550 --> 00:55:14,870 different walks of life coming there to share what they know so 855 00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:19,470 that it can all be cohesive. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's 856 00:55:19,470 --> 00:55:21,510 going to be a really, really good time and I appreciate you 857 00:55:21,870 --> 00:55:25,880 having me down to to spread the word because I think, I think, I 858 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,920 think your listeners would really find it interesting. 859 00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,400 Yeah, I mean you've definitely solidified in my mind the path 860 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,640 that my wife and I are taking with, you know, trying to be 861 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,280 more self-sufficient, living off the land, doubling down on local 862 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,720 communities, finding you know, friend groups and people that 863 00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:47,160 are of the similar age, similar chapters in life, doubling down 864 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,000 on that. I mean, we're probably going to 865 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,360 go the home schooling routes in the beginning for sure and I 866 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,040 think. You know, as the population 867 00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,040 declines, it's, it's interesting man, I don't know if I'm totally 868 00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,800 off the wall on this, but we saw this massive increase in growth 869 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,680 and technology and awareness, innovation, which is great, but 870 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,280 it came at the cost of people just simply being connected on a 871 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,240 deeper level. So we've been trying to double 872 00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:15,480 down on increasing that atmosphere within our own home 873 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:20,960 and abroad and I I think kind of just really fixating on that and 874 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,440 making it a conscious effort. To to make that your reality and 875 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:29,040 and part of your life is key. So us homeschooling, raising our 876 00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,360 own food and getting plugged in the community is, is even more 877 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,200 important now. I think yeah, I, I, I was having 878 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:41,200 a conversation with a friend of mine who is looking for looking 879 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,640 to make some substantial investments and we were talking 880 00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:49,480 through because we're we're both pretty committed to this, this 881 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:54,060 vision of the future. And we said well if if you've 882 00:56:54,060 --> 00:56:59,300 got if you need a place to put your money and the stock market 883 00:56:59,340 --> 00:57:02,700 is probably going to tank and maybe not come back. 884 00:57:03,260 --> 00:57:05,580 The real estate market is probably going to tank and maybe 885 00:57:05,580 --> 00:57:08,140 not come back. The dollar is probably going to 886 00:57:08,140 --> 00:57:12,260 tank and maybe not come back. It's like where, where do you 887 00:57:12,260 --> 00:57:16,500 put this investment, what's what makes sense, what's safe? 888 00:57:17,180 --> 00:57:20,180 And basically the conclusion that we came to was this people, 889 00:57:21,100 --> 00:57:27,100 you, you, you invest in whatever gets you closer to the kind of 890 00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:30,940 people who are going to help you solve problems because human 891 00:57:30,940 --> 00:57:33,620 capital is going to become that's that's the only 892 00:57:33,620 --> 00:57:35,860 appreciating asset that there's going to be in the next 100 893 00:57:35,860 --> 00:57:38,140 years in my opinion. Yeah, no, I think. 894 00:57:38,660 --> 00:57:42,420 I think investing in relationships and human capital 895 00:57:42,740 --> 00:57:45,860 is always a safe bet if you're in a good group of people. 896 00:57:45,860 --> 00:57:48,180 So no, I think this is awesome, man. 897 00:57:48,180 --> 00:57:50,060 I'm, I'm stoked. Are you going to have a? 898 00:57:50,610 --> 00:57:52,690 To have virtual conferences. I'm gonna be traveling out of 899 00:57:52,690 --> 00:57:57,370 town that weekend, but I would love to partake and learn from 900 00:57:57,370 --> 00:57:58,610 the speakers that'll be at your event. 901 00:57:58,610 --> 00:58:01,690 Is there gonna be a way for people to attend virtually or 902 00:58:01,690 --> 00:58:04,690 get recordings of it? Yeah, we're gonna have, we're 903 00:58:04,690 --> 00:58:06,450 gonna have recordings available after the fact. 904 00:58:06,450 --> 00:58:08,610 So we're gonna, we're definitely gonna be releasing some of that 905 00:58:08,610 --> 00:58:11,850 information. The workshops are Chatham House 906 00:58:11,850 --> 00:58:13,130 rules. So that's gonna be because we 907 00:58:13,130 --> 00:58:17,810 wanted to be able to have like a maximally open conversation in 908 00:58:17,810 --> 00:58:20,400 inside the the group. So. 909 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:25,240 So we're not going to be publicizing day 2, but day one, 910 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:26,640 the speakers and and that kind of thing. 911 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,840 We're going to be preparing some some recordings for that. 912 00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,720 Awesome, awesome. Well, Kevin again man, I tip my 913 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:34,800 hat to you. I appreciate you taking the 914 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,720 charge on this, bringing awareness to it. 915 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,640 If there's anything that I could possibly do to help, by all 916 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,360 means let me know. I've thoroughly enjoyed the 917 00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,920 conversation and really enjoyed getting to meet you and dive a 918 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,560 little deeper. And one more time. 919 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,040 What's What's the website? People can go to 920 00:58:47,710 --> 00:58:51,430 yeahnatalism.org. Natalism.org You have like a 921 00:58:51,430 --> 00:58:55,190 social profile as well. Yeah, Natalism Org on Twitter. 922 00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:57,110 Awesome. Well, I will link out to all 923 00:58:57,110 --> 00:58:58,590 those. Make it easy for people to find 924 00:58:58,590 --> 00:59:00,830 you. And again, man, I'm going to be, 925 00:59:00,830 --> 00:59:01,830 I'm going to be just following along. 926 00:59:01,830 --> 00:59:03,270 You've got six kids. You're a little bit further 927 00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:05,830 along on this journey than me, but I respect what you're doing 928 00:59:05,830 --> 00:59:07,190 here, so I'm going to be taking notes. 929 00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:09,710 Thanks so much. Great talk to you. 930 00:59:09,830 --> 00:59:11,150 Appreciate you, Kevin. Take care, man.