Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com
and today I've got special guest Eddie Saldana on the line and we
dive into all things natural bodybuilding.
So he is a freaking beast. He actually competed against my
good friend Aaron Orton back in 2021.
They both looked freaking amazing and I wanted to get him
on the show and just dive into bodybuilding.
We talk about nutrition, we talk about training, we talk about
his training split, we talk about reverse dieting, the
psychological implications that come with post show reverse
dieting and all that it entails. We talk about pretty much all
things bodybuilding from a natural standpoint.
And I always enjoy bringing people onto the show that have a
history and experience with natural bodybuilding because I
feel like it is an amazing sport.
I'm incredibly passionate about it and I want to bring just more
awareness to it. So bringing people on that
compete as naturals is just something I'm passionate about.
Eddie is a stud. He's going to be competing in
next year and I've got no doubt that he's going to be making
some waves in the natural space. So without further delay, sit
back, relax, enjoy the conversation with Eddie
and we are live. Eddie, how are you, man?
I'm pretty good. How you doing Robert?
I'm good, I'm good. I'm trying to think back as to
how we got connected and I'm pretty sure I saw because I'm
really good friends with Aaron Orton and I'm pretty sure he was
posting some pictures of y'all's, you know, battle on
stage. And I think that's how I first
found out about you. And I've been following you
since then because Aaron's super cool dude and you were you were
giving him a run for his money for sure.
Yeah, and I attended the the Washington State Natural last
year, and I know I was following his page on Instagram and they
were doing shout outs to the people who had registered for
the event. And I saw your pictures,
somebody shared it, somebody from the page.
And I was like, holy shit. You know, this guy is lean.
That's how I found out about you.
I've been following you since. Awesome.
And were you at that event? I did.
I was there. I was there because my
girlfriend was there. She was working alongside like
some of the organizers. She was doing something
backstage. Her sister was doing makeup at
the event and she was there helping her sister and I.
So I went to the event just to be there.
You know that you know what this is an excuse for me to go out
there and check it out. It's only like couple hour drive
for me to, you know, the Seattle area.
So I was out there thought you on stage man.
And if I recall correctly, you won your, you won your pro card
there. Yeah, yes, that was a man that
there's a lot of history with me in that show.
Like I've done that show three times.
The first time was in 20, 15 I believe, and I won my class and
then Lionel, I don't know if you know Lionel, but he beat me in
the and he's a freaking beast. And then I did it again in 2017
and I won my class and then Florexus beat me in the overall.
You know him. Florexus that yes, yes, I do
know who that is. Yeah.
And then so this, this was, and I was going to do it again in
2020, but then the pandemic cancelled it right before I was
going to compete. So a lot, a lot of history with
me in that show. So I'm glad I was able to make
it full circle and and get that pro card there specifically.
Oh, we just missed you, man. I did it in 2018 and I actually,
that's where I first time I got qualified to get my pro card and
I didn't get my pro card that year.
Just I didn't actually purchase a membership for the pro card
because I didn't plan to compete.
But I was there in 2018 as well. I competed there and then I I
competed at that show again in 2021.
So that year I also won that year.
I did it as a pro. Actually I did it as a pro.
So I was, it was just me and there with Orton that year.
Very cool. Very cool.
Yeah. That that's always been an
awesome show. This was the first year, this
past year was the first year that Aaron had taken it over.
And I I mean, he's he's just really organized.
Like he's in a military background, so everything he
does is very structured. And I definitely appreciate that
as a competitor. So yeah, it was it was super
cool to see him take the reins. And I mean, Kevin, Linda always
did great too. But Aaron, I got a lot of
respect for him. So it was just awesome to to be
a part of that and just a very cool experience all through and
through. Absolutely, yeah, Yeah, man,
absolutely. And I actually look forward to
competing with them, with Wolf. Now that it's Aaron's show, he's
now that he's a promoter, I look forward to competing there again
next year. I would like to do it again as
well as a pro. Are you planning on competing
next year then I guess? Yes, yeah.
I haven't exactly picked out like all the shows that I've
done do, but I know for sure I would like to do that show
because it's kind of a hometown show for us Washington
residents, the Washington State Natural like, so you're a
natural bodybuilder, you live here, you know about that show.
So I want to do that show. I would like to do Worlds as
well for WMBF Worlds next year. I've always wanted to do Worlds
since I first I even started looking into competitive
bodybuilding. I knew I wanted to be stay
natural, compete naturally. And I used to see like pictures
of like guys like Brian Whitaker, generally just these
guys on stage at the at that level.
And I always thought like, and I wanted to be on that stage
someday. So, you know, after 13 years,
finally feel like I'm worthy enough to be on that stage.
So even in the past when I qualified for world, like in
2021, for example, everybody was trying to push me to compete at
worlds and I just didn't feel like I was ready to compete at
that level with that, you know, the caliber at bat believe that
show up at that stage. I was like, there's just no way.
But you know, I'm I'm about to be 30.
I'll be 30 next year when I compete.
And I think it's just, I think it's a good time to step on
stage and test myself up there. No, I mean, I think, I think you
would totally look like you belong up there, man.
Like I've seen all your Instagram pictures and you've
got the size. I mean, you get dialed in too.
So I feel like you would 100% belong up there.
I, I did it for the first time this past year and that was my
fifth show of that season. And that was too many freaking
shows to do in season. Man, that kicked my butt.
But I was so depleted at that point.
I've been dieting for like 33 weeks and I was lean, but I just
did not have the size. Like I was the lightest guy in
my class. And it's like you can, you can
be shredded all day long. And I feel like I definitely was
on par conditioning wise. But if you get somebody else
that maybe not quite as shredded, but they've got more
size, like you can't take that for granted either.
So I feel like I shouldn't get more size before I step back on
words. And what was your stage weight,
if I may ask? I'm pretty sure for that show I
was 153. I think for Aaron's show, I was
competing at 1:57 and I think it actually looked better at 1:57.
Yeah. And I kind of had a similar
experience to that in 2021. I did when I did my first show
that season, I believe I was like 167 I want to say on stage.
And I did a show about a month and a half later, I did IPE
Worlds. So different, different
organization, but pretty good event as well.
And I think that was about 160, like 364 at that show.
And I also felt like I was the leanest I'd ever been, but I
lost too much sight like that. Those few extra pounds makes
such a such a difference in the look.
And I just wasn't really. Not that I wasn't happy with the
look, but I preferred my my look when I was a few pounds heavier.
Yeah, no, I totally agree, man. Like my whole goal with last
prep was just become the leanest man alive.
And I was going to do that at the cost of looking ideal from a
bodybuilding standpoint. So I'm glad I pushed it to that
degree. But I think from a world
standpoint, for sure, I would have been much more competitive
had I not gone that lean and just allowed myself to put on
those extra 5 lbs 'cause I mean, like I was competing in the
lightweight category. And you're, you're typically, I
guess middle weight at 167, right 'cause the cut off's 165,
I think. I believe so, yeah.
Yeah, so middle weight and I mean, middle weight's a super
tough class. They're all super freaking tough
classes at that caliber. But like the more, the more
weights you can put on and maintain that leanness, the
better. Because I mean, some of these
guys nowadays, man, like I don't even, I don't even get it.
Like the the guy that won the overall at world's this past
year, Brian, Like how in the world does that guy even, I
mean, he, he's huge, man. Like what?
What's his stage weight? Do you know?
It was somebody said somewhere that he was about 195, somewhere
in that range on stage. And he's like 20s, twenty, early
mid 20s I think if I remember correctly.
No, I, I think he was 33. I'm pretty sure somebody said he
was 33 years old, but I mean, that's still, that's still
relatively young, you know, to no, that's only a few years
older than me, but 195 on stage. You just got to think about how
like the density, how much muscle is packed onto that frame
because he's not a a tall guy. He's probably about, you know,
my height and probably has about 20 lbs of stage weight on me,
which, you know, maybe even not more.
It's like closer to 30, which is just free.
It's like, that's like Doug Miller, Doug Miller level, you
know, a guy who's in the one 90s on stage just shredded.
Yeah, it's, it's crazy, man. Like I'm 193 now in my
offseason. That's pretty much the heaviest
I ever get. And I feel like, man, there,
there's no, I've got a long ways to go before I'm competing it
this way shredded. So for people like Brian that
are doing it, it's just it's just impressive, man.
Like, I'm 32 and it's like, man, I got to I got to put in some
serious work in the offseason if I'm going to be competitive at
that level and kind of maintain that somewhat degree of
respectable size against these other guys.
Yeah, absolutely. And something that I've learned
about myself over the years, just being, I'm a realist, you
know, I, I, I know that I'm probably never gonna be that
heavy on stage, no matter how long I continue bodybuilding, as
long as I stay natural, I'm probably gonna be, maybe someday
I'll be somewhere in like the higher one 70s.
I know if I continue to pack on muscle, maybe, but I've just, I
don't have that density. And I've learned that to accept
the, to accept the, my genetic, my genetic potential, what I
have, my love, everything that I, that I have available to me,
I just gotta utilize it the best that I can to be the best
bodybuilder that I can. And that may mean that I'm never
going to be as big as some of these other guys.
But, you know, you just kind of take what you have, you know,
just make the best of it. And that's kind of the approach
that I've had now, now that I've been bodybuilding for about 13
years. Yeah, I think that's the best
approach to have man, because you can only control the
controllables and you can't control your genetics.
You can just and control your environmental factors and you
know, like I, I don't have the genetics to be the biggest guy
on stage ever either. I mean, I can, I can compete to
be the leanest guy on stage, but I would certainly benefit from
more size than I've got. But you know, I can't change the
next I have. So you just got to make the most
of what you got and work with it and be at peace with it.
And that that's the main thing, man, like with natural
bodybuilding, especially, I feel like you've got time because
like you're seeing all these people that are competing, you
know, in the IFBB and they're, they're dropping dead, you know,
pretty early on, like 20s, thirties, 40s.
And you look at the people that are competing on the pro level
at worlds and natural bodybuilding.
And I mean, some of them are in their 40s, fifties, 60s.
So it's like you, you can play that long game approach.
Yeah, absolutely. And another theme with being
natural, I've noticed that guys push their physiques into their
early 40s, still making progress, still improving.
You kind of start to see a decline once they get to their
to their later 40s with a lot of guys.
But you don't really see that a lot of a lot of times in the
enhanced side of bodybuilding, you know, usually these guys
start to peek in their like mid 30s.
And there are exceptions. You know, obviously you have
guys like your Dexter Jackson, that other guy Kamal I believe
is his name, who's like 52 and still competing.
But for the most part, those guys, they, they don't have the
same amount of longevity as staying natural.
Yeah, no, I totally agree, ma'am.
Well, what, what got you into natural bodybuilding?
I mean, I'm always kind of curious to get people's take on
that because natural bodybuilding, there's definitely
like a cult following to it, but it's not nearly as known or
appreciated as, you know, enhanced bodybuilding.
So what? What got you to stick with the
natural round? That's a good question.
When I, I started lifting weights when I was about 15
years old and I had, I had already experienced lifting
weights even earlier than that. You know, when I was like, I
really want to say like 12-13, but I stopped for a little bit,
picked it back up around when I was like 16 and I started
looking more into, I remember this was around when like
Instagram was around right back in like 2011 when Instagram
started. So I was lifting weights and I
started following like all these bodybuilders and I came across
these pictures of Doug Miller at the time.
I remember they started circulating.
He was getting ready for the Yoran Cub at the time in 2014.
And there was these progress pictures that just were going
all over the place, right? They were, they were going
viral, I guess you say. And I saw these pictures of Doug
Miller and knowing that he was a natural bodybuilder, I couldn't
believe that drug free somebody could get their physique to that
level. And I was already a fan of I was
actually a fan of enhanced bodybuilding, the IPB before I
was before I even knew natural bodybuilding was a team.
So I was a big fan of like high green Phil Heath, like all those
guys. And but I at the time lifting
weights and being drug free already and having no plans of,
you know, I mean, I was a kid. I was like, I was scared of the
idea of putting, putting like drugs in my body.
I didn't want, I wasn't even thinking about that.
I just enjoyed lifting weights, going to the gym, training hard.
And that was my love for it. It's always Stanford before
going to the gym and training. And I thought to myself, well,
I'm making pretty good progress and I just rather keep, stay
natural, keep it this way. I don't want to mess with any
any like drugs or anything like that.
And that's pretty much it, man. It's just always what's more
fascinated with seeing how far I could push it naturally.
I feel like the, the human body is so much more capable than
people give it credit for. And, you know, like, I, I see so
many people, so many young kids get into the sport wanting to,
you know, get bigger, put on muscle, looking for ladies,
whatever the case may be. And they just like automatically
start defaulting to supplements. And that leads to, you know,
more, more more intense supplements, drugs, Sarms, you
know, steroids, things of that nature.
And it's like they have no idea what their body's even capable
of without any of that stuff. And you know, like I, I'm, I'm a
little skeptical about the whole idea of, you know, capping your
genetic potential because it's like, if you've got enough time
and enough intensity, then there's not really any
necessarily cap to them. Like you can continue to
progress over time, but like, there's definitely no need to go
the route of enhanced until you put in a good solid five years
minimum, I would say, especially if you're starting young.
So it's just, it's just sad to see all these people defaulting
to drugs so early on and and wrecking havoc on their health.
Yeah, I think a lot of kids now are also very impressionable.
So they go on social media, they see a lot of other younger guys
getting on steroids. And and it's also it's become
trending now too. You know, like you see all these
jokes about trend and this and that and that's kind of like a
running joke. But there's also a lot of kids
who are dabbling now with, you know, gear at a very young age.
And like when I was when I first started out, I was probably the
youngest man in my gym. Now you see a bunch of young
guys at the gym and they go on social media.
They see guys like Sam Zlik and no, no hate to any of these
guys. By the way, I'm not kind of like
I'm not hitting on any of these guys, but they see that and they
don't really realize that there's also consequences to
taking that route. And like you said, I think the
most important thing that somebody can do is stay natural
for the first few years, kind of live that lifestyle, the
dieting, the training. And then if you decided
something you want to pursue, then absolutely, you know you
have that choice to take that route.
Yeah, 100% man, 100%. Well, I want to kind of like
dive into some of the nuts and bolts of how you actually
structure things, like how you structure training your
nutrition, like all of that. So when it comes to, let's just
start with with training, how do you typically train?
Are you doing like a, like a like a body part split?
I know I, I was posting something about my front squats.
Then you chimed in talking about doing them on the Smith machine.
I, I scrolled through your Instagram and like most half of
your videos are you doing front side Smith machines?
So I know you're a fan of that one.
Yeah, the, the reason I, I stick to the Smith machine front
squats is because I have I have a history of back injuries.
I had a herniated disc in my low back from since I was like 15
and that had a big impact on the way I, I approached my training.
And it's over the years I've learned to work, work around it,
but I can't really do barbell back squats anymore without too
much compression in my spine. And I, I, I saw somebody doing
front squats. I think it must have been like
Eugene Teo. This was several years ago.
And I tried them and I realized they were hard as hell and I
just fell in love with doing them because I still enjoy a
good squat movement, you know, and I can't do hack squats every
week because I like to switch it up here and there.
And front squats are one of some movement that I really like.
But as far as my approach to, to my training, I've done a lot of
stuff over the years. I mean, I've done like I've done
push pull legs, but my, my favorite style of training is
now over the years that it's changed.
I feel like it's changed. But like every few years I
realize, OK, I like training like this.
I really enjoy doing like one to two body parts, like one to two
body parts per per day. Like I, I like to do legs on
their own and then I like to have back with like back and
biceps, chest and triceps. I guess some people would call
that a a bro split. That's kind of that kind of the
the way I like to pair my muscle groups together and as far as
Rep ranges go and stats and reps, I really like two to three
sets per movement. So if I'm doing like bent over
rows, let's say that's a pretty taxing movement, I2 to three
sets it it's really good. Anything's above that, like four
sets and on. Then I'm really starting to get
tacked, just really starting to get tired.
And obviously the sets just depend on depend on depend on
the muscle I'm training or the movement that I'm doing 'cause
if it's a big leg compound that I'm doing, I really like to
stick to the 15 reps and below. If I'm doing front squats, I
like to fix like 10 or 12 reps. I feel like that's a really good
sweet spot for me, but it's not always up to me.
I don't always train within those rip ranges.
Obviously there's going to be times where I'm going to be
doing high rip, like I'll be training up to 20 rips
sometimes. But that's something that me and
my coach usually go through when when he gets me a, a split, I
look it over and then I kind of have, you know, I'm able to
change, move things around, change things that I feel like
it's going to work better for me.
And when you're doing two or three sets of like the rows, for
instance, is that two and three working sets or you just, are
you going straight into it like, you know, throwing 185-220-5275
on there, like how, how are you kind of pyramiding that up?
So that's actually a really good question.
I see a lot of people who do that.
They'll do, they'll do theater sets and then they'll do like
one work instead of a top set as they call it.
When I look at my program and it says, you know, Smith machine
rows, two sets of two sets of 10, I'll warm up.
I always do and then I will work up to one working set.
It's really hard. I usually try to be about one to
two reps away from failure with full range of motion, good
technique. And once I feel like, OK, I
can't get another Rep, I usually stop.
Now there are times where I will go to failure of most of the
times I always stop around about, you know, where I have
about one or two left. And if I feel like if I exceed
my my Rep range goal, well then I just bump the weight up and
accept. And then the following week I'll
start heavier so that I don't exceed that goal.
That makes sense. Yeah.
But yeah, I like, I like to, I like to do my working sets.
Each working set has to be like really close to failure or like
one Rep away with continuing. And and are you not training two
failure simply so that you've got enough in the tank to
continue to train that body part for a few more movements within
a day? I'm sorry, say it again.
And are you not going to failure simply so that you have enough
left in the tank to continue taxing that muscle group with a
few more additional exercises for that training session?
Yeah. And I also realized that I can
only go to failure so often before I start to feel run down.
So I'll maybe I'll go to failure like one set per muscle group on
that given day. Sometimes I don't go to failure
at all during my training, Like I won't go to failure at all.
I'll get really close. I just found out that like I've
learned that going really close to failure each set, I enjoy
that better than, you know, taking one set to to failure
just as long as every set is hard.
I feel like I'm enjoying my workouts better that way.
I like, I like feeling like my workouts are hard and when I'm
at the gym and I'm training, I'm making every set hard.
That to me is a that's a good workout.
That's that's how I feel best mentally as well as far as not
just, you know, reading a piece of paper and saying, OK, let me
do what it says on here, but how am I feeling after the workout
or during the workout? So I keep those things in mind.
Yeah, no, totally, totally. And are you doing like multiple
like if you're if you're doing like back and bias, for
instance, are you going to be targeting back and bias an
additional time that week or is it pretty much once a week for a
given body part? It depends.
Right now I'm I'm actually doing it twice.
I'm doing a well, actually, I have no choice.
I actually hurt my hamstring a couple weeks ago.
So I'm pretty much only doing upper body for a few weeks.
But yeah, there are times where I will do where I will do a
muscle group twice. But when I do a muscle group
twice, I will reduce the amount of volume that I do it each time
I train it. And that's another good example
of when I won't take something a failure.
Because if I have back one day out of the week and I have back
again, let's say in four days, well, I want to be fully
recovered by the next time I train back again.
So I will reduce the volume of that muscle group that I'm
training twice a week. And with something like biceps,
for instance, I feel like I could take biceps to failure
pretty much every time I train them and they recover really
fast. They're a smaller muscle group.
They're not as as taxing as a big compound like saying I'm
back. So with back I could probably, I
mean with biceps, I could do biceps, you know, eat three
times a week even and still take tests to failure and be fine.
Yeah, no, that's kind of similar to what I'm, I'm trying to do.
I'll do like a full body. I've, I've never done a full
body until here recently. I've always kind of done like a,
you know, body part split, like what you're referring to.
But I've been doing a full body for the past two years.
Did it all through my prep in 2023 and it worked really well
because like if I'm traveling a bunch, I can just simply do, you
know something. I do one exercise for each body
part every single day, five days a week typically.
So if I've got like, if I'm traveling on Friday and Friday's
normally my back day, I don't have to worry about it because
I'm still hitting back the other four days a week.
So there's not really any holes in my workout, so to speak.
But I mean, the vast majority of my training history has been
doing exactly what you've described, and that seems to
work pretty freaking well for most people.
Yeah, that's cool. How do you like that doing a
full body day? I like it man, and I like it a
lot during my prep too, because like when you're depleted and
like if you got like a stand alone leg day and you're, you
know, 1700 calories and you've been prepping for 20 weeks, 25
weeks, like is daunting mentally to go into the gym by all right,
I'm going to slam legs today with like 5 different exercises,
but if you go in, you're like, OK, I've got one exercise for
each body part and I'm just going to chip away at it and
enjoy it and have a little bit of, you know, nuance to it all.
Like it, it keeps things a little bit more fresh and it's
just not as mentally taxing, I feel.
Yeah, I just got done with the training phase where I was
actually doing a full body day, but it was only once a week.
So I would do a full body day. I would start my week with a,
with a full body day. You know, I would start with the
legs. I'd do like a like the hack
squat and then I'll move on to, I remember how the program went
exactly, but it was, it would do like a hack squat.
Then I would do like a road. Then I would do like a chest
movement. And then, you know, there was
like shoulders in there and arms, I believe.
But it was it was pretty compact, so I wouldn't get
through it in about the same time frame that I would have a
regular workout. So it didn't feel like I was at
the gym for hours. And I actually really enjoyed it
a lot more than than I would have given credit to.
So in the past, I've never, I would have never been open to
doing a full body day. But after trying that out and
seeing like I would leave the gym with like a great pump, you
know, I just felt great walk out of the gym feeling great after
doing the full body day. So it's something that I'd
probably be open to trying to get in the future.
Yeah, I was always talking smack about it, and then somebody was
asking me about it, so I figured I'd give it an honest try and
see. And I just fell in love with it
because I think as a natural athlete especially, there's a
benefit to be had when you increase the training frequency
of a given body part. So with, you know, my protocol
with full body, I'm training like legs are getting hit every
single day, five days a week. You know, that's a lot more
frequency than just having, you know, one leg day a week.
Now I'm granted any given session doesn't have that much
intensity for a specific body part, but you're getting it much
more frequently and I think that works well for me.
So I'm guessing you don't really get sore than if you're only
training the muscle Group One day a week or how does how does
that how do you feel after doing training pretty much every
muscle group every day out of the week?
I honestly don't really get sore at all.
Like yesterday I did Sumo Dead's four legs and then I had
somebody coming in to interview with me and I decided to have
him do deadlifts as part of the interview, so I did conventional
Dead's that same day. So that was kind of brutal.
I'm a little bit sore from that doing sumo's and conventional on
the same day. But generally speaking, I don't
ever really get crazy sore, But I'm, I'm like going pretty much
to failure on my last set of everything.
So I'm I'm taxing the muscles for sure.
I'm, I'm seeing, you know, strength improvements over time,
but I'm not really getting, you know, overly sore one day the
next. Yeah, I'd imagine you wouldn't
want that anyway if you're gonna be doing the same muscle groups
the following day. Yeah, but that's pretty cool,
man. That's pretty cool.
Have you been following along with Dirk Emmerich at all like
you watch his training? Yeah, absolutely, man.
I started following Dirk in 2021.
I remember he was getting ready for his first ever competition
season and we connected through Instagram and we we pretty much
chopped it up throughout our entire prep.
So it was pretty cool to, you know, have somebody that you can
interact with alongside of your prep.
Well, they're also getting ready for a prep.
And yeah, I watch, I do watch his training and and it's
probably the most perfect training I've ever seen.
He's like super slow. Like he and I competed together.
I shared a stage with him at worlds and I mean, he, he won
his, the weight class we were in.
So I mean, he, he brought the package for sure.
But like I was watching his training and he's just super,
super slow. Like he's doing like, I don't
know what his set and Rep scheme is, but it's just all very, very
slow, methodical methodical with every one of his movements.
Yeah, yeah, I've seen, I, I see his videos all the time and I
got to respect him for it, man 'cause that it's not easy to
train like that, especially for somebody like me, man.
When I get in the gym, I don't even think I have it able to
train like that 'cause I like to be, I'm, I'm also very conscious
about the way I execute my movement.
I try to be controlled, but I'm not that controlled.
Yeah, like I like, you know, like I like going, you know,
faster pace, super sitting things, drop sitting things.
Like I like, you know, just basically I own my own gym.
Like I've got the ability to to be noisy and loud and move and,
and like, like he's just like, he's like a statue almost in
there. Yeah, man.
And that just goes to show man that there's no right or wrong
way to train because he has one of the best natural physiques in
the world. I mean, clearly you saw how he
looked at last year and look at the way he trains and obviously
that's working out wonderful for him.
So you got to just got to appreciate it. 100%, man.
Well, Speaking of there being more than one way to do things,
talk to me a little bit about your nutrition.
How do you have that structured? I I track macros,
straightforward track macros, but it feels to me like it kind
of is like a meal plan because I eat about the same times every
day. I eat the same foods a lot, you
know, switch them out obviously, but just track my macros.
So every morning I wake up, I eat the same breakfast.
I usually eat my lunch around the same time every day, which
is usually the same lunch. I might change the protein
source. I might have chicken one day, I
might have beef the next, might have rice one day, I might have
potatoes the next. But same times, same portion
sizes, same dinner at the same time.
And then pretty much that's the way I've always done it.
I started doing that when I was like 18 or 19, just tracking my
macros. And over the years I kind of
cleaned it up a bit because when I started was when flexible
dieting was like huge thing like, oh, if it's your macros,
I'm not sure if you remember those days or if you were
following that dieting approach around that time, but that was
huge back then. And that's how I started.
And I even remember I fell at the time, I used to feel like I
needed to put like ice cream in my diet, things like that, you
know, and same thing now over the years, over the years, I, I
tend to stick more to Whole Foods, try to cut out processed
foods, not completely. I don't completely cut them out
100% of the offseason, but I do try to be a, you know, keep it,
keep it simple. I just prefer simplicity with my
diet. Yeah, no, 100% man.
And are you, you're tracking macros obviously during your
prep, but also pretty consistently throughout the
offseason as well, right? Yes, yeah, always.
Yes. And I do have a little more,
more freedom in the offseason. Like I'm not perfect with
everything in the offseason, if that makes sense.
I sometimes I'll go over a little bit like on my carb
intake. It's not like it doesn't have to
be on the dot during prep. It's a completely different
story. But yeah.
And I, my, as far as like the, my macros are, I'm more of a
little bit higher carb. That's the approach that my, my,
my client or my client, my coach takes the higher carb, high,
high protein, high carb and then like moderate fats.
But like right now I'm like 6068 grams of fat, like 280 carbs.
And what's your protein? 240 right now.
OK. And you're weighing about one
95200 somewhere. In there, probably about low one
90s at the moment, about 192 I would say.
Nice, nice. And then when you So what does
that breakdown 2 calories just off top?
I want to say about 2600. OK.
And you're pretty satiated at that.
A little bit. I mean, I do get cravings, I'm
not gonna lie, because I just finished a mini cut.
I started that in December and it was a very slow mini cut
didn't until April. But I lost 25 lbs just strictly
from reducing calories. And I've been, we've been
reintroducing food now introducing more carbs now into
the diet, but it's been a very slow increase by the week or
every other week. Not every week, but every other
week. And so coming out of that small
cut, I, I have had like moments where I'm like, I'm a little
hungry and all then, you know, but it's not, it's nothing that
I can't handle. So you.
Your last prep was 21 you said right?
Yes. So from there you reverse diet
up and you, you competed, you said 161 at the IPA worlds.
And then what would you reverse diet up to?
Like what'd you get up to after that?
Man, honestly, I, that prep took such a toll on me because it was
a, it was a very lengthy prep. So I remember I struggled a lot
with reversing after the show where I was probably gaining
like 5 lbs a week, every week for like the first like month
and a half, two months, because I couldn't stop having these
impulses to just binge. And I struggled.
I struggled a lot with that. I'm not gonna lie.
I struggled a lot with that. It's something that I learned
that I have to have a better eye on a better control on the next
time I get out of a prep and I start reversing.
I would like to have an actual more monitored reverse.
But I think part of the reason why I struggled a lot with that
reverse as well is because it was very slow.
Like I saw, I've seen guys who after a prep, you know, their
car will go from like whatever they were during their prep to
like 300 grams of carb today. Mine didn't, my coach didn't do
that with me his it was a very slow increase after, after the
prep and I was like, man, I was like, I'm not in prep anymore.
Like I just want to eat more. So I would eat more and you
know, I paid the price, but I just, I just didn't feel good.
I would, I would feel awful. Like every time I would binge, I
just felt horrible mentally, physically.
So I would like to do a proper reverse the next time around.
It's tough, man. Like this is something that
every bodybuilder deals with to some degree, but it rarely ever
gets talked about because it's it's not sexy to talk about how
much weight you're gaining or how much body fat you put on.
Everyone wants to talk about how much weight to lose and how lean
they are with their body fat percentages when they're in a
cut. But like when the show's over
and no one's watching, it's like nobody talks about eating in
excess. And like I've struggled with it.
Every single bodybuilder has to some extent.
So I appreciate you being honest with me there.
But like that, that is something that is not easy to do, man.
Like I think the reverse diet is more psychologically taxing than
the prep itself. Cause like when you're in a
prep, like for me at least, I just flip a switch.
Like when I'm in prep mode, that switch is flipped.
Like deviation is not an option. So because it's not an option, I
don't even think about it. But when the show's over, it's
like, what's the worst that can happen?
Like I can, I can eat a little bit more.
So you do and there's just no. It's easy to go off the rails
for sure. I agree 100%.
During prep, you're, you're locked in.
There's a goal there. You're trying to achieve this,
you know, trying to get on stage and achieve this look, And once
that's once that's gone, like they're not even thinking about,
you're not even thinking about the stage anymore and it's gone.
And you finally feel that sense of, I get this, a sense of
freedom that you feel like you're not, you don't feel like
so confined to just eating very low amount of food.
You just want to eat everything inside.
And now that there is no show, well, you're like, OK, well,
what's like you said, what's the worst that can happen?
So that's probably the hardest thing about getting out of a
prep, especially if if you're like a first time competitor,
man, it's gonna it's gonna be hard.
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like, you know, it's
strange that reverse dieting, like outside of the bodybuilding
space, like it's not even talked about.
Like I, I work with a lot of clients that are not
bodybuilders and I talk to them about reverse dieting and
ramping up their metabolic rate and, and they kind of their eyes
glaze over. But like in, in the bodybuilding
circles, it's pretty well understood.
And there's been a lot of controversy as of late it seemed
as to what the best approach to reverse dieting is.
Like some people are a fan of reversing slowly.
Some people are more so like, hey, let's just get you right
back up to maintenance pretty much immediately post show and
then slowly increase from there. I think a lot of it really
honestly just depends on what's best for one's psychology.
Like I, I think, you know, for me, I like to maintain a lot of
the habits and routines that I implemented going into prep.
So I continue to do my posing practice.
I continue to do my same workouts and some degree of
cardio and I, I continue to track my intake and scale that
up gradually. And that works better for me
psychologically. But you know, it's, it's
different for everybody, I would imagine.
Yeah, like, yeah, absolutely. I think the most important thing
is to you gotta get somebody back to like a baseline where
there's where they're feeling, where they're not thinking about
food all the time. So if they have like, I guess
it's gonna depend on the person. Me, I'm somebody who was very
food focused during prep. Like I couldn't stop thinking
about food during prep as then I got to a point during prep, like
near the end where I was, I couldn't stop thinking about
what I was going to eat after the show.
And I know that's not a good a good way to, you know, to feel
going into a show. It's like a bit, what am I going
to eat after? But it's also because during the
prep I was so like you said, you know, I was just so locked in.
I couldn't, I was not going to deviate from the plan at all.
I was like dotted every I crossed all my TS.
I was perfect. And then after prep I was like,
OK, cool. Now I could just, I should be
able to eat more And when I didn't, when I realized that I
couldn't just eat whatever I wanted, it was actually it
turned on me because now I just, I was binging.
So if I think the next time around after a prep, what, what
I think I should do just for me at least would be to right off
the bat probably have like a couple 100 extra grams of carbs
per day and just make that like my baseline for a while.
So instead I would have like if I was eating 100 grams of carbs
like near the end of my prep, now I'd be eating like 300 or
400 grams of carbs and just stay at that amount of food for a few
weeks, a couple of months and make no changes to it and see
how that works out. I think I would have a better
like psychologically I would feel better and have a better
control on everything and I probably wouldn't binge as much
as I did last time. Yeah, and 100%, man, I think
like the types of foods make a big difference.
Like for me, you know, I'm doing strict keto with everything.
So like after my show, like I went to Brazilian steakhouse and
just ate a ton of meat, you know, and I think that helps a
lot because without the without the massive spike in blood
sugar, you don't have the, the crazy volatile swings and
cravings and, you know, hunger cues.
So I think that helps, at least does for me for sure.
But most competitors are obviously using carbohydrates.
So I think doing something like that would make total sense.
Absolutely, man, I've never, I've never tried keto.
I've heard about it, but I've always hitting a carb guy.
But I was actually curious to ask you what made you want to
take that approach and live that lifestyle, do keto and just you
know, and, and how long have you been doing it?
Man, I have not had a carbohydrate meal in like 8 or
nine years now. Wow.
Yeah, like no rice. No, that's impressive.
None of that. And honestly for me, like I
started because after my SO, my first prep was in 2012, didn't
have a clue what I was doing. I bulked up to 230, lost 80 lbs
in 12 weeks from my first show and did everything wrong.
Lost a bunch of muscle, developed a bunch of eating
disorders afterwards. And I did that for like my first
three competitions. And then I was like playing
around with all different kinds of diets, trying to get a better
relationship with food and figure out how to make it
sustainable. I started doing keto before keto
was really popular and that was back in 2014, two 1015.
And for me, it really just improved my overall relationship
with food. I can, I can moderate my hunger
much better. I can like actually know what
true hunger and satiety felt like as opposed to not.
And so I just cut out the carbs completely pretty much from then
on out, from then on out. And I tried competing for the
first time in 2017 with a ketogenic approach and I got
leaner than I'd never gotten. I felt better.
I didn't lose it near as much strength or lean tissue, so I
was pretty much sold on it from that point forward and I've just
always done it ever since. Yeah, and I'm sure when you're
eating, when you're not eating carbs at all, you probably are
less likely to have those those binging episodes because man,
like carbohydrates, man like the sugar and everything like that.
It's just different, man. It's I feel like that has AI
guess it's just more appealing. You just want to stuff your face
more and if you're eating higher fat foods is just not the same
'cause you're more satiated when you're eating the foods that
you're eating. Yeah, and I feel like your
hormones appreciate it more because like from a, from a
hormonal standpoint, like if you're not eating hardly any
fat, like like cholesterol and you know, saturated fat, like
all that is like the precursor 2 testosterone and two proper
hormone levels. So like, if you have hardly any
fat coming in and you're super depleted, those numbers are all
going to be jacked up. And yeah, I mean, you can
definitely still gain body fat without carbs, but it's, it's
not like, like binging on 5000 calories of cookies and ice
cream is different than binging on 5000 calories of, you know,
chicken breast and 8020 ground beef, you know?
Yeah, absolutely, man, so but. I don't know, there's
definitely, I mean, people have been getting lean, you know,
with, with bro dieting, flexible dieting, there's a lot of
different ways to get lean. So it's kind of really just a
matter of what's more sustainable for, for the
individual. But I, I hope that keto
bodybuilding kind of gains more momentum because I certainly
think it would, you know, be very effective for a lot of
people. I've worked with a lot of people
and it seems to work well with them because like, like we were
saying earlier, man, like so many people struggle with the
food addiction standpoint of it post show especially.
And I feel like if there's any way to mitigate against that,
then then that should be a goal for sure.
Yeah, absolutely. And I saw that you do a you are
a keto brick. Well, tell me a little bit about
that man. I was actually kind of curious
to ask you about it and find out more.
Yeah, so you know, you know how like backstage, everybody's
sucking down rice cakes. Yeah, I have all the time, man.
So the keto brick is kind of like my version of a rice cake.
So I made that for my 2017 prep and since I'm keto, like I'm
getting my energy from fat, not from carbs.
And I'm getting, you know, I'm having to fill out my muscle
glycogen with fats and proteins from the glycerol backbone of
the fats and from the amino acids from the proteins, not
from carbohydrates. So that is how I'm feeling that
that's how I'm getting energy. That's how I'm getting a little
bit of extra sodium in to draw in that fluid into the muscle
tissue and outside of that subcutaneous layer of skin.
Like that is my backstage method for providing energy and filling
out and just bringing that crisp package.
And I never planned on it being a product that I sold it just I
was documenting my prep and people kept asking about it on
my YouTube channel. So I decided to roll up my
sleeves and, and turn into a product and it just kind of took
hold ever since. But yeah, it's, it's 1000
calories ketogenic. The main ingredient is cacao
butter. So really high source of stearic
acid, really easily digested fat source.
And yet we we make those and ship them all over the world.
That's pretty cool. And so eating So what food
sources are like, you know how you say for carbs, there's like
certain foods that you could eat that I guess you could pay for a
pump. Well, what would you eat like
backstage before you know you're going to a show?
It would be just that, just the keto break.
Yeah, So like my, my, my peaking strategy is pretty much like I
don't manipulate my water at all.
Like I'm literally drinking a gallon of water before I step on
stage. Like not immediately before, but
like before I step on stage that day, I probably had a gallon of
water in me already, which is different, different than a lot
of people. A lot of people are cutting
water. I don't do any of that.
Like I'm staying hydrated the whole time and the night before
I'm having an increase of fat and protein over my baseline
intake. So for instance, I think during
this last prep, my my calories got down to like 17/18/19
hundred somewhere in there. And then on the Friday before
the show, I would have probably 2526, twenty, 800 calories
coming from just more fat and protein.
And I'm normally making like a keto pizza.
So like the crust is made with almond flour and cheese and I'm
having like 250 grams of fat, whereas everybody else is having
like 2-3 hundred grams of carbs. So that's what's giving me
energy and filling me out the next day.
Plus I'm having a little increase in sodium as well.
So I was having like 15,000 milligrams of sodium the night
before. And do you, do you feel like
following the keto diet during a prep?
Do you feel like it's still that?
Does it keep you more satiated as to what if somebody was
eating carbs and relying on carbs to get their energy?
Or do you think you're still with as long as you're eating
the lower calories you're still going to struggle with like
energy and appetite over time? I mean, you're still hungry for
sure. Like, I, I mean, the keto diet's
amazing, but it's not like a, it's not like a miracle.
Like you're still gonna be hungry when you're, when you're
sub 5% body fat and you're taking in fewer calories than
normal. I mean, you're, you're gonna be
hungry no matter what diet you're following, but there's
not gonna be near the flux in blood sugar levels because
you're not having the carbohydrates or sugars or
anything like that. So like my, my blood sugar stays
consistently between 70 and 90 at all times.
I mean, it spikes a little bit when I'm training, but that's
normal. But it's not like changing at
all with the foods I'm eating and changes in blood sugar,
changes in blood insulin, like that's what's causing a lot of
shifts in hunger and energy crashes and whatnot.
So I can pretty much bypass all of that.
And I'm typically only eating, you know, when my calories get
below about 2200, I switched to one meal a day.
So I'm only eating once a day. And I think not thinking about
food all the time also really makes it more satiating because
if you're eating 456 meals a day and you eat one meal and you're
just thinking about your next meal, like you're just in a
constant state of, you know, food fixation.
And if you can bypass that, then you can do away with a lot of
that hunger. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine
trying that out. But also you just, you never
know, I guess I've been following the same approach to
my dieting for so long now that I feel like the only way that I,
I can do it. But you just never know until
you try something different. And like you said, you know,
you've been doing it for eight or nine years, so it works out
really well for you. Shoot.
Man, you ever want to try you let me know brother, I'd be
happy to help. I don't know, man, I don't know.
I feel like I, I don't know, I look too forward to too much
forward to like my, like my refeeds.
And there's certain foods like, oh, like I'll me and my
girlfriend always talk about where are we going to go out to
eat this weekend for our refeed because she's also a competitive
figure athlete. And so we kind of live a very,
you know, pretty much live the same lifestyle.
We have the same coach, we have the same training, we similar
dieting. So kind of just the same thing,
man. So we kind of get excited about
little things like that, but. No, that's good.
For sure. That's good.
It's good. You got someone in your corner
doing the same thing with you living the lifestyle.
Like I can't imagine being with someone that is not, not
necessarily they don't both have to compete, but like not into
health, not in training. Like that would just be very
challenging. Yeah, I have to have like
similar habits. I feel like it helps a lot, man.
And, and I I know what you mean. I I've seen it where's one
person in a relationship is completely like all about the
bodybuilding life thought the other person isn't.
And you know, they might have conflicting views on things and
you know, it's, it's a lot like things are.
It's pretty smooth and nice when the banks are on the same page
about a lot of things like that. So.
Totally, totally. So, So talking a little bit
about the how you've got things structured.
So you did your last show in 21. You're going to compete next
year, SO25 and NO20. What year are we in?
We're in 2024. 20 yeah, yeah, 25 minutes.
Here, so, So are you. You bulked up.
What was the heaviest you got? I got up to 215 two 15216 right
around December of last year. And what do you think your body
fat was then? I was up there, man.
I had, I don't know exactly. I'm not really good at
estimating body fat levels, but I was probably I teens, you
know, like 19% and I got down to 119190.
I got down to about 190 in April and I've, I've, I've been
fluctuating around 19192 ever since.
I haven't, my body's really stubborn.
So the way like if I start losing weight and I hit, I get
to my goal, my weight's gonna stay at that, at that range for
a while. Like I don't have to just keep
adding food, adding food, adding food until I finally break out
of that, you know, being stuck in that spot.
And right now I've been stuck in this spot for about two months
now. So but it's not, you know, I
feel good. I feel great.
Workouts are great, energy is great, appetite is, you know,
fine. And you said you're at about
2600 calories now. I might, I might be a little bit
over. I might be 2700 I 26 and 2800
somewhere in that range. I I know it's changed reasonably
so, but it's it's up there. It's under 3000 for sure.
And what was your intake when you were at the 215 Martin, do
you know? Say I was like close to 4000.
I was pretty, I was up, I was up.
I was eating about 530 grams of carbs a day.
Proteins were very similar to what they are right now, so they
were probably like between 2:40 and 260 and I think my fats were
probably closer to like 90g and so I was close to about $4000.
What was the goal for the mini cut?
Did you just feel like being that heavy was hindering your
training performance? Well, I was pretty much red
lighting my body, man. I mean, I was at a point where I
wasn't out if any more weight out again, I was just going to
get fatter. And my, my body composition was
already, you know, I was a little bit uncomfortable at that
point. I was starting to get to the
point where I was feeling a little bit uncomfortable.
I'm OK with gaining enough weight where I don't, I can't
see my eyes. I feel strong.
But then, you know, after so long, you just have to kind of,
you have to make that shift. You have to start cutting down
again and then build back up, you know, and that's, that was
feeling. I was at that point, I was
probably bulking for about a year and I got to that.
I got to that weight and it was time to bring it back down.
Yeah. And when you were doing the mini
cut, what was the lowest you took your calories down to?
Like 221 hundred 2000. Like the low 2000s.
Gotcha, gotcha. So still not near as low as
you'd probably take it in an actual prep then.
No, well, actually I, I remember my carbs were about 100 and like
70 at the end of my mini cut, which is not far off from where
I would get during the prep during the prep like I know my
carbs get down to about 1:40 at the lowest, not including like
peak week and I was, but surprisingly I wasn't I wasn't
like having like major like hunger episodes during that mini
cut. I felt fine and I didn't really
lose any. I lost a little bit of strength,
but I felt fine. I felt great.
So it was, it was overall, it was a very smooth, very smooth
mini cut. And from here, like right now
from here where I'm at, I'm gonna talk.
I talked with my coach. We're just gonna reintroduce
food like carbs, like I was telling you earlier and get to a
point where I'm not like Pete Bulk, but I'm also not too lean
'cause I got I got a little lean.
And we're gonna set up starting point for prep for next year.
I like it, I like it. Do you?
Do you know how lean? Like what?
Any idea what your body fat was at the depth of that mini cut?
Like 12 percent, 10%. Yeah, I was probably, yeah, I
was probably about, I want to say like 12%, eleven percent.
I I could never really see my abs like in the offseason and I
could see even now, I could still see my abs pretty good.
I see a lot more lines and details around the weight that
I'm at. So I'm probably about even right
now. I'm probably like 1213% body
fat. Nice, nice.
Yeah. I feel like modulating between
those is key. Like, I think, you know, as a
natural bodybuilder and I'm so glad that WNBF changes, but
like, they're allowing us to compete, you know, much longer
between shows that we don't lose our pro status, that we can just
maintain our membership dues. Like, they made that shift last
year, which is just a great transition because I think, you
know, incentivizing competitors compete every single year, every
other year is oftentimes just too frequent.
I mean, like, you and I both, we take pretty long preps.
Like my last prep is 33 weeks. You said you did a long prep as
well. Like when you're prepping for
that long and then you reverse that out of that, Like, you
don't have any year left to build more size.
And as a natural, like, you have to have enough time to build
size to actually look different the next time you step on stage.
So yeah, I think, you know, giving yourself that ample time
to be in a build and then not dipping into those, you know,
poverty macros and doing like a prep too frequently is key.
But yeah, modulating between that higher range of what a
healthy build phase is to the lower range then kind of backup
I think is is a good idea. I'm probably going to do the
same thing myself. Like right now I'm 193 and for
me that's about 1718% body fat. So pretty much on the upper end
of what I would deem acceptable for me in the build phase.
And I think I'm going to try and titrate that down to about 12%
body fat and then just go from 12 back up to 18 and just kind
of keep cycling between that window, but between now and the
next time I start a prep. And do you have any idea when
your next prep will be when you plan to compete again?
Man, I'm going to do a long build phase 'cause I after
competing the world's, it's like next time I compete at world's,
I'm going to win world's Like I, I don't want to just go and step
on stage like I want to go to win.
And I know for me, in order to do that I've got to put on more
size. So I'm probably going to take
like a legit five year building phase.
Yeah, you know, I mean you we kind of have the same like the
similar approach to the way like competing.
There's people that compete every year, natural bodybuilders
talking about they compete every year now just don't see how you
can make, you know, great like greater strides in progress
competing every year as opposed to taking a, you know, minimum,
minimum two year offseason. But even two years is, you know,
it's not as can't make as much progress as you would in a three
or four year offseason. So that was the that I was the
same way when I competed in the in 2021 and people were telling
me to do worlds. And I was like, I just, I don't,
I don't, I wouldn't be happy with what I would bring to that
stage. And so I took the offseason from
the last 2-3 years now almost before I decided I yeah, I think
I'm ready to compete again. Nice.
That's the way to do it, man. Are you going to compete at a
few shows and then make Worlds the final show or are you going
to just go for Worlds or what are you thinking there?
For sure I want to do, I want to end it with World's Washington
State Naturals obviously going to be on that list.
As far as other shows, I haven't thought, you know, that that I
could think outside of the WMBF as well.
I know there's a lot more shows going on now, but I haven't
really looked into it. Man, I, I would like to do more
than those two shows, though. I would like to do like at least
three shows and I don't want to take this really long offseason
to just do one or two shows. I would like to do multiple
shows, but we'll see how that how that turns out.
I'll probably put a plan together when I start my prep
next year. And are you willing to travel
pretty good ways for shows? Yeah, yeah, man, I actually
traveled that prep. I went to Missouri to compete at
IPE Worlds and that was a very spontaneous decision that I
made. I what was it?
I was supposed to do some shows that I never ended up doing that
season and my coach brought it up to me IPE worlds and he he's
good friends with the promoters of a lot of those shows because
he's in that area where there's a lot of IPE events that take
place out there. He talked to me about it and
there was a like a two week, like a two week, two weeks
before the show and that was there was still enough time for
me to to get ready for it or to register for it and everything
like that. So we everything was last
minute, but we got it all taken care of and it was it was fun,
man. It was a great experience.
That was the that was the person had traveled for a show.
I'm I'm over at Washington. Yeah, no, that's awesome.
I hate that. I didn't know you were at the
Washington show. I'd love to, would, would, would
love to have met you in person there.
Well, I was at worlds too. I know I I didn't, I didn't see
that either. I guess you would have been in
the audience though. Yeah.
But yeah, man, we definitely got to cross our path.
I think Aaron's competing next year as well, right?
Yeah, yeah, he is. He is.
And I was actually joking with him about.
I was like, I guess we're going to run it back.
I like it. Who?
Who won that last one? Was it you or him?
I won. I won on a like I want to say 3
judges scorecards or something like that, and some judges
actually gave it to him. So it was a split decision.
It was a really close show. Yeah, and he he had like what,
1015 lbs on you or so? I think it was even more than
that man. I think it was like closer to
20. I know he was like in the low
one 80s. I want to say he was like 183 or
something on stage. He was, he was, he's a big guy
man, especially being on stage next to him.
I was like, holy shit, this guy, this guy's huge.
So that is crazy. But I, I, I also competed
alongside of Bada. You know Bada, right?
He was a he. He did a the heavyweight class
at worlds. I, I've never met him in person,
but yeah, he, he's a freaking beast.
There's so many really impressive natural bodybuilders,
man. Like people that that don't have
a clue what's possible naturally, like staying look,
they start looking at some of these competitors like it's hard
not to just be blown away. Yeah, and a lot of people
wouldn't believe that some of these guts are natural.
But those are people who don't follow the space of bodybuilding
at all, fitness or natural bodybuilding.
They don't know what can be achieved.
If you train hard and you follow a diet for years and years and
years on end, you don't slack off, you'll be amazed with what
you can achieve. And I just wish more people
would realize that, you know, I mean, there's people that would
look at guys like you and me, people who don't even touch
weights and they would be like, oh, those guys are on steroids.
And that's just that's always been frustrating for me to like
I don't even bother trying to convince those people, but I
just wish more people were were aware of what they could achieve
if they actually followed a a diet plan and worked out.
Totally, man. I mean, I got down to 151 last
year. If I was weighing in at 151 and
taking steroids then I'm doing something wrong.
Yeah, that's true, man. But no, 100% agree, man.
I'm super passionate about the sport.
It's awesome talking to other people like yourself that
compete in the sport. And I haven't told this to
anybody yet. Aaron, I think knows, but I'm
actually going to be hosting a show, a debut NBF show next
year. And if you're willing to travel
to Arkansas, man, I would love to have you at my show.
Yeah, what? What, what time frame?
Like what are we looking at? What calendar?
I'm trying to get it structured such that it would work out time
frame with worlds. Like probably it's going to be
like late September if all goes well.
So that's pretty much as early as I can feasibly make it and it
still be within, you know, a reasonable time frame for
competitors that want to do the world showing.
I'm still waiting to hear back from some venues right now, but
I would love to kind of have it structured somewhere in that
time frame so it would still be feasible for people wanting to
do Worlds. Well, I want to say Congrats on
taking a step forward with doing that man.
I'm sure running a show this is, it is Nazi and easy man.
There's a lot of PDQS that go into it.
So hopefully that works out for you man.
And if you do, let me know man, I'd love to do it.
Yeah, 100% man. I will definitely keep it you in
the loop and if if the timing works out, I'd love to have you
love to have you there, man. Well, where are you located?
I'm in Arkansas. I'm in northwest Arkansas, so
not far from your Missouri show. Oh.
OK, yeah, definitely, man. I mean, I'd be willing to travel
for it. Beautiful.
I'm trying to get Aaron to come to.
I don't know if he's going to be competing, but y'all can kind of
battle it out there. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's
competing next year. I'm, I'm pretty sure I've seen
him already mention it and we already talked, we already joked
about, you know, like the rematch or whatever, just
messing around. But that'd be, it'd be cool to
compete even over there, you know, and hopefully there's a, a
decent turn out because at the Washington state natural that
year, it was just him and I and there were a couple guys that
dropped out like two weeks or so or like a week before the show.
Just days before the show. There was like a couple guys
that dropped out, which is it was kind of a bummer because I
think I, I want to compete with the best.
I want to compete with good guys on stage.
You know, I don't want to just show up and just be me and you
know, me and another guy, but. At least it was Aaron, you know,
worthy competitor. He was really good bodybuilder.
Yeah, I feel like, you know, that's what you want, man.
Like you're, you got to compete against the best to be the best,
you know, and, and it's, it's much more respectful if you're
doing that. And like, like Lionel, like, you
know, he and I battled it out way back in 2015.
And I would love to convince him to get back on stage because I'd
love to be up there again with him.
So maybe I'll be able to twist his leg enough to do so.
Well, I mean, I even last year when a world man, when I saw
the, the lightweight class walk out on stage, like I was just
blown away, man. Like you guys completely covered
the stage. I was like how many?
I don't even know how many guys there were there.
There must have been close to 15 guys on stage and I, I was just
blown away. I was like, holy shit.
I've never seen anything like that other than after
bodybuilding event. So it was really cool to watch
that. I hated it though, because there
were so many competitors that they had to break us up into two
groups and have like half in the front, half in the back and then
swap and like I was just in the back, you know, holding that,
you know, relaxed. Yeah, I remember.
I do remember not. Relax.
And I'm like, man, I'm, I'm fatigued back here, just doing
my relax, but I want to be upstage, you know, posing.
So that was almost like too many competitors.
Yeah, that's true, man. I guess maybe they just have too
many qualifying events for the show.
And I know that they trying to they maybe they want a bigger
turn out, but maybe that's something that they could they
got to think about, you know, for the following following
events for Worlds. I don't know, it'll, it'll be
good that whatever they wound up doing, it was just awesome to be
a part of. And I've got no doubt that
you're going to absolutely freaking kill it when you
compete at worlds. So I'm, I'm excited for you,
man. Oh, thank you, man.
I look forward to it, man. It's a very competitive show the
next year. You know, I like to think about
watching that show was like, where would I have placed?
Where would I have placed? But I guess I I will never
really know so best I can do is just continue training and prep
for it for the next year and see who shows up and how it turns
out and enjoy the experience man.
So everything else is out of my control.
All I can control this from what I do.
That's the only way to do it, man.
You got to just be the best that you can be and let the chips
fall where they may and and be at peace with that outcome.
As long as you know you're giving your best effort then
then you can be at peace with whatever happens.
Yeah, I had that talk with my coach a lot during my last prep.
I was a little bit younger and I was more focused on like, oh,
you know, how am I going to do at the show?
What place am I going to get? And I would bring it up to him
and he would tell me like, hey, man, look, at the end of the
day, you can't control what the judges like judges or everything
is speculative. All the judges, the judges might
think this guy is worthy of winning first place or you're
winning worthy of winning first place, but it doesn't matter.
You can't think about that. All you can control is what you
do, the work you put in, how you show up, Everything else.
Don't worry about it. There are factors that you
cannot control. And it opened up my eyes a lot,
man, to competing and everything else.
So I've, I've applied that mindset to, you know, any other
show that I've done since or that I'm gonna do, I'm always
gonna think about it like that. That's the way to do it, man.
I mean, that's why I think it's such such a mental sport, more
so than a physical sport. So obviously a physical sport,
but I mean, like what you gain from it mentally,
psychologically, emotionally, like that transcends the sport
itself and bleeds into every other area of your life.
So I feel like bodybuilding is a great vehicle for just overall
self development. Yeah, and you said something
earlier, man, that that stood out to me.
You said the next time you do Worlds, you're going to win.
And I've always had that same the the the same like instinct
in me where if I compete, I want to win.
I don't want to just show up to just to participate.
I want to win the show or I at least want to win my class.
Yeah. But I I have, yeah, I have that
same, that, that same like driving forcing me for the next
time I compete. So I like that.
Well, we, we gotta coordinate, man.
I mean, if you're competing next year, I'm probably not gonna
compete again until 20. Who knows when, it'll be a
while. I'll be like 37 years old next
time I compete. But we gotta coordinate.
We'll have to compete at the same time.
That'd be. Fun.
Oh yeah, absolutely man. And natural bodybuilding, man,
it's it's only getting bigger. You just keep seeing these
freaks coming out of from like from all these different places.
So it's only getting more and more competitive.
So you know, along the way, there's going to be a lot of
you're going to meet a lot of great people.
And I think it'd be great to compete with a little like
connecting with people like you and yourself, you know, like
that's like Dirk, you know, that's who I've met from other
countries that also compete. You know, we can all come
together and compete at a show, at an event like worlds.
And that's, that's always been something special to me about
natural bodybuilding. You know, it's like it's more
close knit as opposed to like the enhanced side, which is a
lot more broader. Yeah, yeah.
I think the camaraderie is key, man.
Like, like we're all trying to be the very best we can be.
And when we're on stage, we're trying to rip each other's heads
off. But it's also met with this,
like, underlying mutual respect. Like you, you want the other
person to bring their best package so that you have that
much more, you know, confidence in who you are and and pride and
what you've accomplished if you best them.
But like, you want everybody to bring their A game.
You're not trying to undercut anybody.
You're trying to backstab anybody.
You're trying to like, enjoy the journey with them and build each
other up so that everybody is the best that they can be.
Yeah, and when I I've been to shows and I've been backstage
and I've seen guys who I know I could just tell by looking at
them that they did not put in the work.
I mean, granted, it might, it might have been like an amateur
show, but I just could never understand.
Like, how could you take the time to pick this event out,
start a preparation for it and not give it your all?
Like, why would you not want to show up at your best?
Why would you do that to yourself?
Like you're going to do this. You got to give it everything,
man. Even if you know that you have
you don't have the best genetics.
You don't have the best this, the best that you got to do
everything you can Leave no stone unturned.
That's the approach that I've had to every prep that I've done
and it's only going to continue to stay like that for every prep
that I do in the future. Amen to that man.
I mean, you just keep getting better like it's, it's it's a
journey for sure. It's not like a one and done
thing. It it never there is no finish
line. There is no off switch like it's
always on. It's just the degree to which
you were on. But there's always a goal.
There's always something you're striving to maintenance is a
myth. Like you're you're getting
better with every day that passes.
Yeah, and and that's like, I guess that's the reason why we
choose to compete. I mean, we're bodybuilder at the
end of the day. We love the last night, We love
the training. Everything that comes with being
the bodybuilder and competing is just like, I guess it's just you
kind of set a goal within the goal, you know, so when you're
already doing this, like you're going to the gym, you're
training and now you set a goal, OK, I'm going to do this.
This show, you kind of like you have that television, you get
locked in and that's exciting, man.
It's exciting to have a purpose and do the work towards a. 100%,
ma'am. Well, I'm super excited for you.
I'm excited to watch you grace the stage at World's next year
and I will definitely be making a point to come out there and
support. And let's definitely keep in
touch, man. I'd love to get you out of my
show. I'd love to get you back on the
podcast after the competition or during the prep because I just
love talking about this stuff, man.
So I can't thank you enough for jumping on here today.
Oh, well, thank you, man. Thank you for thank you for
having me, man. I really appreciate it was a it
was very out of the blue, you know, but you know, here we are
having this conversation. I appreciate you taking the time
to also reach out to me and have this conversation.
Yeah, my pleasure, man, my pleasure.
Where do people go to find out more about you and follow along?
Just just my Instagram really man.
Which is Eddie Double under score 1995.
Awesome. Well, I will link that to that
and make it easy for people to find you.
And I'll put one of your stage shots in the show notes so
people know that you're freaking jacked and doing everything
right. And we'll keep in touch, man.
There's everything I can do for you, brother.
You just let me know, hey? I appreciate you rubber man,
good looking up. You bet.
See you, Eddie. See you bro.