1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480
Well, hello ladies and gents, 
Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com 

2
00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,560
and today I've got special guest
Eddie Saldana on the line and we

3
00:00:05,560 --> 00:00:08,039
dive into all things natural 
bodybuilding. 

4
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,480
So he is a freaking beast. 
He actually competed against my 

5
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,840
good friend Aaron Orton back in 
2021. 

6
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,800
They both looked freaking 
amazing and I wanted to get him 

7
00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,960
on the show and just dive into 
bodybuilding. 

8
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,080
We talk about nutrition, we talk
about training, we talk about 

9
00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:24,120
his training split, we talk 
about reverse dieting, the 

10
00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,640
psychological implications that 
come with post show reverse 

11
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,479
dieting and all that it entails.
We talk about pretty much all 

12
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,120
things bodybuilding from a 
natural standpoint. 

13
00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,640
And I always enjoy bringing 
people onto the show that have a

14
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,760
history and experience with 
natural bodybuilding because I 

15
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,400
feel like it is an amazing 
sport. 

16
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,640
I'm incredibly passionate about 
it and I want to bring just more

17
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,000
awareness to it. 
So bringing people on that 

18
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,120
compete as naturals is just 
something I'm passionate about. 

19
00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:52,760
Eddie is a stud. 
He's going to be competing in 

20
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,760
next year and I've got no doubt 
that he's going to be making 

21
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,920
some waves in the natural space.
So without further delay, sit 

22
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,600
back, relax, enjoy the 
conversation with Eddie 

23
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,640
and we are live. 
Eddie, how are you, man? 

24
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:15,600
I'm pretty good. 
How you doing Robert? 

25
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,920
I'm good, I'm good. 
I'm trying to think back as to 

26
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,400
how we got connected and I'm 
pretty sure I saw because I'm 

27
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,680
really good friends with Aaron 
Orton and I'm pretty sure he was

28
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,160
posting some pictures of 
y'all's, you know, battle on 

29
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,480
stage. 
And I think that's how I first 

30
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:32,720
found out about you. 
And I've been following you 

31
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,640
since then because Aaron's super
cool dude and you were you were 

32
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,360
giving him a run for his money 
for sure. 

33
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,560
Yeah, and I attended the the 
Washington State Natural last 

34
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,520
year, and I know I was following
his page on Instagram and they 

35
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,080
were doing shout outs to the 
people who had registered for 

36
00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,760
the event. 
And I saw your pictures, 

37
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,800
somebody shared it, somebody 
from the page. 

38
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,200
And I was like, holy shit. 
You know, this guy is lean. 

39
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:56,600
That's how I found out about 
you. 

40
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,680
I've been following you since. 
Awesome. 

41
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,640
And were you at that event? 
I did. 

42
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,280
I was there. 
I was there because my 

43
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,120
girlfriend was there. 
She was working alongside like 

44
00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,639
some of the organizers. 
She was doing something 

45
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,000
backstage. 
Her sister was doing makeup at 

46
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,160
the event and she was there 
helping her sister and I. 

47
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,480
So I went to the event just to 
be there. 

48
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,280
You know that you know what this
is an excuse for me to go out 

49
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,120
there and check it out. 
It's only like couple hour drive

50
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,600
for me to, you know, the Seattle
area. 

51
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,200
So I was out there thought you 
on stage man. 

52
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,320
And if I recall correctly, you 
won your, you won your pro card 

53
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,440
there. 
Yeah, yes, that was a man that 

54
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,200
there's a lot of history with me
in that show. 

55
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:33,920
Like I've done that show three 
times. 

56
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:40,040
The first time was in 20, 15 I 
believe, and I won my class and 

57
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,960
then Lionel, I don't know if you
know Lionel, but he beat me in 

58
00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:49,760
the and he's a freaking beast. 
And then I did it again in 2017 

59
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,080
and I won my class and then 
Florexus beat me in the overall.

60
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,160
You know him. 
Florexus that yes, yes, I do 

61
00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,160
know who that is. 
Yeah. 

62
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,360
And then so this, this was, and 
I was going to do it again in 

63
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,520
2020, but then the pandemic 
cancelled it right before I was 

64
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,480
going to compete. 
So a lot, a lot of history with 

65
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,880
me in that show. 
So I'm glad I was able to make 

66
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,600
it full circle and and get that 
pro card there specifically. 

67
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,840
Oh, we just missed you, man. 
I did it in 2018 and I actually,

68
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,720
that's where I first time I got 
qualified to get my pro card and

69
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,760
I didn't get my pro card that 
year. 

70
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,400
Just I didn't actually purchase 
a membership for the pro card 

71
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:27,680
because I didn't plan to 
compete. 

72
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,800
But I was there in 2018 as well.
I competed there and then I I 

73
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,440
competed at that show again in 
2021. 

74
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,960
So that year I also won that 
year. 

75
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,000
I did it as a pro. 
Actually I did it as a pro. 

76
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,840
So I was, it was just me and 
there with Orton that year. 

77
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:43,520
Very cool. 
Very cool. 

78
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:44,720
Yeah. 
That that's always been an 

79
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,280
awesome show. 
This was the first year, this 

80
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,000
past year was the first year 
that Aaron had taken it over. 

81
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,520
And I I mean, he's he's just 
really organized. 

82
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,840
Like he's in a military 
background, so everything he 

83
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,760
does is very structured. 
And I definitely appreciate that

84
00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,280
as a competitor. 
So yeah, it was it was super 

85
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,560
cool to see him take the reins. 
And I mean, Kevin, Linda always 

86
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,960
did great too. 
But Aaron, I got a lot of 

87
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,760
respect for him. 
So it was just awesome to to be 

88
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,800
a part of that and just a very 
cool experience all through and 

89
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,000
through. 
Absolutely, yeah, Yeah, man, 

90
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,960
absolutely. 
And I actually look forward to 

91
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,079
competing with them, with Wolf. 
Now that it's Aaron's show, he's

92
00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,320
now that he's a promoter, I look
forward to competing there again

93
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,880
next year. 
I would like to do it again as 

94
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,720
well as a pro. 
Are you planning on competing 

95
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,480
next year then I guess? 
Yes, yeah. 

96
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,520
I haven't exactly picked out 
like all the shows that I've 

97
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,640
done do, but I know for sure I 
would like to do that show 

98
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,800
because it's kind of a hometown 
show for us Washington 

99
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,360
residents, the Washington State 
Natural like, so you're a 

100
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,640
natural bodybuilder, you live 
here, you know about that show. 

101
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,280
So I want to do that show. 
I would like to do Worlds as 

102
00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:50,120
well for WMBF Worlds next year. 
I've always wanted to do Worlds 

103
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,720
since I first I even started 
looking into competitive 

104
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,000
bodybuilding. 
I knew I wanted to be stay 

105
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,320
natural, compete naturally. 
And I used to see like pictures 

106
00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,640
of like guys like Brian 
Whitaker, generally just these 

107
00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,840
guys on stage at the at that 
level. 

108
00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:07,160
And I always thought like, and I
wanted to be on that stage 

109
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,200
someday. 
So, you know, after 13 years, 

110
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,840
finally feel like I'm worthy 
enough to be on that stage. 

111
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,200
So even in the past when I 
qualified for world, like in 

112
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,280
2021, for example, everybody was
trying to push me to compete at 

113
00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:21,640
worlds and I just didn't feel 
like I was ready to compete at 

114
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,800
that level with that, you know, 
the caliber at bat believe that 

115
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,880
show up at that stage. 
I was like, there's just no way.

116
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,160
But you know, I'm I'm about to 
be 30. 

117
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,800
I'll be 30 next year when I 
compete. 

118
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,240
And I think it's just, I think 
it's a good time to step on 

119
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,360
stage and test myself up there. 
No, I mean, I think, I think you

120
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,120
would totally look like you 
belong up there, man. 

121
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,080
Like I've seen all your 
Instagram pictures and you've 

122
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,480
got the size. 
I mean, you get dialed in too. 

123
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,560
So I feel like you would 100% 
belong up there. 

124
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,960
I, I did it for the first time 
this past year and that was my 

125
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,200
fifth show of that season. 
And that was too many freaking 

126
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,840
shows to do in season. 
Man, that kicked my butt. 

127
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,120
But I was so depleted at that 
point. 

128
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,560
I've been dieting for like 33 
weeks and I was lean, but I just

129
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,040
did not have the size. 
Like I was the lightest guy in 

130
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,480
my class. 
And it's like you can, you can 

131
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,640
be shredded all day long. 
And I feel like I definitely was

132
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,240
on par conditioning wise. 
But if you get somebody else 

133
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,280
that maybe not quite as 
shredded, but they've got more 

134
00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:16,120
size, like you can't take that 
for granted either. 

135
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,480
So I feel like I shouldn't get 
more size before I step back on 

136
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,280
words. 
And what was your stage weight, 

137
00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:24,240
if I may ask? 
I'm pretty sure for that show I 

138
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,800
was 153. 
I think for Aaron's show, I was 

139
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,080
competing at 1:57 and I think it
actually looked better at 1:57. 

140
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,640
Yeah. 
And I kind of had a similar 

141
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,280
experience to that in 2021. 
I did when I did my first show 

142
00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:44,040
that season, I believe I was 
like 167 I want to say on stage.

143
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,280
And I did a show about a month 
and a half later, I did IPE 

144
00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:50,480
Worlds. 
So different, different 

145
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,640
organization, but pretty good 
event as well. 

146
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:58,040
And I think that was about 160, 
like 364 at that show. 

147
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,240
And I also felt like I was the 
leanest I'd ever been, but I 

148
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,400
lost too much sight like that. 
Those few extra pounds makes 

149
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,440
such a such a difference in the 
look. 

150
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,000
And I just wasn't really. 
Not that I wasn't happy with the

151
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,960
look, but I preferred my my look
when I was a few pounds heavier.

152
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,560
Yeah, no, I totally agree, man. 
Like my whole goal with last 

153
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,880
prep was just become the leanest
man alive. 

154
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,360
And I was going to do that at 
the cost of looking ideal from a

155
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,960
bodybuilding standpoint. 
So I'm glad I pushed it to that 

156
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,320
degree. 
But I think from a world 

157
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,600
standpoint, for sure, I would 
have been much more competitive 

158
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,760
had I not gone that lean and 
just allowed myself to put on 

159
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,920
those extra 5 lbs 'cause I mean,
like I was competing in the 

160
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,400
lightweight category. 
And you're, you're typically, I 

161
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,560
guess middle weight at 167, 
right 'cause the cut off's 165, 

162
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,480
I think. 
I believe so, yeah. 

163
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,040
Yeah, so middle weight and I 
mean, middle weight's a super 

164
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,720
tough class. 
They're all super freaking tough

165
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,320
classes at that caliber. 
But like the more, the more 

166
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,600
weights you can put on and 
maintain that leanness, the 

167
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,440
better. 
Because I mean, some of these 

168
00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,480
guys nowadays, man, like I don't
even, I don't even get it. 

169
00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,320
Like the the guy that won the 
overall at world's this past 

170
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,360
year, Brian, Like how in the 
world does that guy even, I 

171
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,160
mean, he, he's huge, man. 
Like what? 

172
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,280
What's his stage weight? 
Do you know? 

173
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,440
It was somebody said somewhere 
that he was about 195, somewhere

174
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,200
in that range on stage. 
And he's like 20s, twenty, early

175
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,160
mid 20s I think if I remember 
correctly. 

176
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,960
No, I, I think he was 33. 
I'm pretty sure somebody said he

177
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,760
was 33 years old, but I mean, 
that's still, that's still 

178
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,120
relatively young, you know, to 
no, that's only a few years 

179
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,880
older than me, but 195 on stage.
You just got to think about how 

180
00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:37,320
like the density, how much 
muscle is packed onto that frame

181
00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,120
because he's not a a tall guy. 
He's probably about, you know, 

182
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:45,240
my height and probably has about
20 lbs of stage weight on me, 

183
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,360
which, you know, maybe even not 
more. 

184
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,920
It's like closer to 30, which is
just free. 

185
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,960
It's like, that's like Doug 
Miller, Doug Miller level, you 

186
00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,640
know, a guy who's in the one 90s
on stage just shredded. 

187
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,200
Yeah, it's, it's crazy, man. 
Like I'm 193 now in my 

188
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,720
offseason. 
That's pretty much the heaviest 

189
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,520
I ever get. 
And I feel like, man, there, 

190
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,360
there's no, I've got a long ways
to go before I'm competing it 

191
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,000
this way shredded. 
So for people like Brian that 

192
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,280
are doing it, it's just it's 
just impressive, man. 

193
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,840
Like, I'm 32 and it's like, man,
I got to I got to put in some 

194
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,520
serious work in the offseason if
I'm going to be competitive at 

195
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,080
that level and kind of maintain 
that somewhat degree of 

196
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:21,680
respectable size against these 
other guys. 

197
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,640
Yeah, absolutely. 
And something that I've learned 

198
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,080
about myself over the years, 
just being, I'm a realist, you 

199
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,760
know, I, I, I know that I'm 
probably never gonna be that 

200
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,040
heavy on stage, no matter how 
long I continue bodybuilding, as

201
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,880
long as I stay natural, I'm 
probably gonna be, maybe someday

202
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,200
I'll be somewhere in like the 
higher one 70s. 

203
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,600
I know if I continue to pack on 
muscle, maybe, but I've just, I 

204
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,400
don't have that density. 
And I've learned that to accept 

205
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,760
the, to accept the, my genetic, 
my genetic potential, what I 

206
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,800
have, my love, everything that 
I, that I have available to me, 

207
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,960
I just gotta utilize it the best
that I can to be the best 

208
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,240
bodybuilder that I can. 
And that may mean that I'm never

209
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,840
going to be as big as some of 
these other guys. 

210
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,760
But, you know, you just kind of 
take what you have, you know, 

211
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,320
just make the best of it. 
And that's kind of the approach 

212
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,920
that I've had now, now that I've
been bodybuilding for about 13 

213
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,640
years. 
Yeah, I think that's the best 

214
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,960
approach to have man, because 
you can only control the 

215
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,160
controllables and you can't 
control your genetics. 

216
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,400
You can just and control your 
environmental factors and you 

217
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,520
know, like I, I don't have the 
genetics to be the biggest guy 

218
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,400
on stage ever either. 
I mean, I can, I can compete to 

219
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,440
be the leanest guy on stage, but
I would certainly benefit from 

220
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,480
more size than I've got. 
But you know, I can't change the

221
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,200
next I have. 
So you just got to make the most

222
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,240
of what you got and work with it
and be at peace with it. 

223
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,720
And that that's the main thing, 
man, like with natural 

224
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,880
bodybuilding, especially, I feel
like you've got time because 

225
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,640
like you're seeing all these 
people that are competing, you 

226
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,120
know, in the IFBB and they're, 
they're dropping dead, you know,

227
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,440
pretty early on, like 20s, 
thirties, 40s. 

228
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,800
And you look at the people that 
are competing on the pro level 

229
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,720
at worlds and natural 
bodybuilding. 

230
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,680
And I mean, some of them are in 
their 40s, fifties, 60s. 

231
00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,440
So it's like you, you can play 
that long game approach. 

232
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,000
Yeah, absolutely. 
And another theme with being 

233
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,280
natural, I've noticed that guys 
push their physiques into their 

234
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,800
early 40s, still making 
progress, still improving. 

235
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,480
You kind of start to see a 
decline once they get to their 

236
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,280
to their later 40s with a lot of
guys. 

237
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,880
But you don't really see that a 
lot of a lot of times in the 

238
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,880
enhanced side of bodybuilding, 
you know, usually these guys 

239
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,320
start to peek in their like mid 
30s. 

240
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,200
And there are exceptions. 
You know, obviously you have 

241
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,240
guys like your Dexter Jackson, 
that other guy Kamal I believe 

242
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,560
is his name, who's like 52 and 
still competing. 

243
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:37,000
But for the most part, those 
guys, they, they don't have the 

244
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,520
same amount of longevity as 
staying natural. 

245
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,160
Yeah, no, I totally agree, 
ma'am. 

246
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,560
Well, what, what got you into 
natural bodybuilding? 

247
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,960
I mean, I'm always kind of 
curious to get people's take on 

248
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,960
that because natural 
bodybuilding, there's definitely

249
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,960
like a cult following to it, but
it's not nearly as known or 

250
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,120
appreciated as, you know, 
enhanced bodybuilding. 

251
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,000
So what? 
What got you to stick with the 

252
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,760
natural round? 
That's a good question. 

253
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,840
When I, I started lifting 
weights when I was about 15 

254
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,560
years old and I had, I had 
already experienced lifting 

255
00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:11,080
weights even earlier than that. 
You know, when I was like, I 

256
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,680
really want to say like 12-13, 
but I stopped for a little bit, 

257
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,680
picked it back up around when I 
was like 16 and I started 

258
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,360
looking more into, I remember 
this was around when like 

259
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,400
Instagram was around right back 
in like 2011 when Instagram 

260
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,280
started. 
So I was lifting weights and I 

261
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,240
started following like all these
bodybuilders and I came across 

262
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,120
these pictures of Doug Miller at
the time. 

263
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,400
I remember they started 
circulating. 

264
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,920
He was getting ready for the 
Yoran Cub at the time in 2014. 

265
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,120
And there was these progress 
pictures that just were going 

266
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,880
all over the place, right? 
They were, they were going 

267
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,400
viral, I guess you say. 
And I saw these pictures of Doug

268
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,320
Miller and knowing that he was a
natural bodybuilder, I couldn't 

269
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,080
believe that drug free somebody 
could get their physique to that

270
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,880
level. 
And I was already a fan of I was

271
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,840
actually a fan of enhanced 
bodybuilding, the IPB before I 

272
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,080
was before I even knew natural 
bodybuilding was a team. 

273
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,760
So I was a big fan of like high 
green Phil Heath, like all those

274
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,320
guys. 
And but I at the time lifting 

275
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,480
weights and being drug free 
already and having no plans of, 

276
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,600
you know, I mean, I was a kid. 
I was like, I was scared of the 

277
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,760
idea of putting, putting like 
drugs in my body. 

278
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,360
I didn't want, I wasn't even 
thinking about that. 

279
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,360
I just enjoyed lifting weights, 
going to the gym, training hard.

280
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,720
And that was my love for it. 
It's always Stanford before 

281
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,760
going to the gym and training. 
And I thought to myself, well, 

282
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,320
I'm making pretty good progress 
and I just rather keep, stay 

283
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,280
natural, keep it this way. 
I don't want to mess with any 

284
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,000
any like drugs or anything like 
that. 

285
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,240
And that's pretty much it, man. 
It's just always what's more 

286
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,920
fascinated with seeing how far I
could push it naturally. 

287
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,920
I feel like the, the human body 
is so much more capable than 

288
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,080
people give it credit for. 
And, you know, like, I, I see so

289
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,560
many people, so many young kids 
get into the sport wanting to, 

290
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:59,000
you know, get bigger, put on 
muscle, looking for ladies, 

291
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,840
whatever the case may be. 
And they just like automatically

292
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,920
start defaulting to supplements.
And that leads to, you know, 

293
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,400
more, more more intense 
supplements, drugs, Sarms, you 

294
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,920
know, steroids, things of that 
nature. 

295
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,560
And it's like they have no idea 
what their body's even capable 

296
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,440
of without any of that stuff. 
And you know, like I, I'm, I'm a

297
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,560
little skeptical about the whole
idea of, you know, capping your 

298
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,880
genetic potential because it's 
like, if you've got enough time 

299
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,440
and enough intensity, then 
there's not really any 

300
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,640
necessarily cap to them. 
Like you can continue to 

301
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,200
progress over time, but like, 
there's definitely no need to go

302
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,960
the route of enhanced until you 
put in a good solid five years 

303
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,200
minimum, I would say, especially
if you're starting young. 

304
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,760
So it's just, it's just sad to 
see all these people defaulting 

305
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,440
to drugs so early on and and 
wrecking havoc on their health. 

306
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,200
Yeah, I think a lot of kids now 
are also very impressionable. 

307
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,200
So they go on social media, they
see a lot of other younger guys 

308
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,520
getting on steroids. 
And and it's also it's become 

309
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,800
trending now too. 
You know, like you see all these

310
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,200
jokes about trend and this and 
that and that's kind of like a 

311
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,840
running joke. 
But there's also a lot of kids 

312
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,080
who are dabbling now with, you 
know, gear at a very young age. 

313
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,840
And like when I was when I first
started out, I was probably the 

314
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,640
youngest man in my gym. 
Now you see a bunch of young 

315
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,160
guys at the gym and they go on 
social media. 

316
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,440
They see guys like Sam Zlik and 
no, no hate to any of these 

317
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,080
guys. 
By the way, I'm not kind of like

318
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,040
I'm not hitting on any of these 
guys, but they see that and they

319
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,840
don't really realize that 
there's also consequences to 

320
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,320
taking that route. 
And like you said, I think the 

321
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,240
most important thing that 
somebody can do is stay natural 

322
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,680
for the first few years, kind of
live that lifestyle, the 

323
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,560
dieting, the training. 
And then if you decided 

324
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,040
something you want to pursue, 
then absolutely, you know you 

325
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,720
have that choice to take that 
route. 

326
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,640
Yeah, 100% man, 100%. 
Well, I want to kind of like 

327
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,920
dive into some of the nuts and 
bolts of how you actually 

328
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,880
structure things, like how you 
structure training your 

329
00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,120
nutrition, like all of that. 
So when it comes to, let's just 

330
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,240
start with with training, how do
you typically train? 

331
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,880
Are you doing like a, like a 
like a body part split? 

332
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,440
I know I, I was posting 
something about my front squats.

333
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,640
Then you chimed in talking about
doing them on the Smith machine.

334
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,280
I, I scrolled through your 
Instagram and like most half of 

335
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,760
your videos are you doing front 
side Smith machines? 

336
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,000
So I know you're a fan of that 
one. 

337
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,280
Yeah, the, the reason I, I stick
to the Smith machine front 

338
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,000
squats is because I have I have 
a history of back injuries. 

339
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,760
I had a herniated disc in my low
back from since I was like 15 

340
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,160
and that had a big impact on the
way I, I approached my training.

341
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,880
And it's over the years I've 
learned to work, work around it,

342
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,120
but I can't really do barbell 
back squats anymore without too 

343
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,320
much compression in my spine. 
And I, I, I saw somebody doing 

344
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,800
front squats. 
I think it must have been like 

345
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,760
Eugene Teo. 
This was several years ago. 

346
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:57,840
And I tried them and I realized 
they were hard as hell and I 

347
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,520
just fell in love with doing 
them because I still enjoy a 

348
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,079
good squat movement, you know, 
and I can't do hack squats every

349
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:06,920
week because I like to switch it
up here and there. 

350
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,599
And front squats are one of some
movement that I really like. 

351
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:15,440
But as far as my approach to, to
my training, I've done a lot of 

352
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,480
stuff over the years. 
I mean, I've done like I've done

353
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,440
push pull legs, but my, my 
favorite style of training is 

354
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,920
now over the years that it's 
changed. 

355
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,319
I feel like it's changed. 
But like every few years I 

356
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:27,760
realize, OK, I like training 
like this. 

357
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,960
I really enjoy doing like one to
two body parts, like one to two 

358
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,320
body parts per per day. 
Like I, I like to do legs on 

359
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,560
their own and then I like to 
have back with like back and 

360
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,840
biceps, chest and triceps. 
I guess some people would call 

361
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,480
that a a bro split. 
That's kind of that kind of the 

362
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,680
the way I like to pair my muscle
groups together and as far as 

363
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,840
Rep ranges go and stats and 
reps, I really like two to three

364
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,840
sets per movement. 
So if I'm doing like bent over 

365
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,280
rows, let's say that's a pretty 
taxing movement, I2 to three 

366
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,920
sets it it's really good. 
Anything's above that, like four

367
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,360
sets and on. 
Then I'm really starting to get 

368
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,640
tacked, just really starting to 
get tired. 

369
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,440
And obviously the sets just 
depend on depend on depend on 

370
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,360
the muscle I'm training or the 
movement that I'm doing 'cause 

371
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,680
if it's a big leg compound that 
I'm doing, I really like to 

372
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,280
stick to the 15 reps and below. 
If I'm doing front squats, I 

373
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,600
like to fix like 10 or 12 reps. 
I feel like that's a really good

374
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,720
sweet spot for me, but it's not 
always up to me. 

375
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,480
I don't always train within 
those rip ranges. 

376
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,000
Obviously there's going to be 
times where I'm going to be 

377
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,200
doing high rip, like I'll be 
training up to 20 rips 

378
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,200
sometimes. 
But that's something that me and

379
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,040
my coach usually go through when
when he gets me a, a split, I 

380
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,040
look it over and then I kind of 
have, you know, I'm able to 

381
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,520
change, move things around, 
change things that I feel like 

382
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,600
it's going to work better for 
me. 

383
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,760
And when you're doing two or 
three sets of like the rows, for

384
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,760
instance, is that two and three 
working sets or you just, are 

385
00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,440
you going straight into it like,
you know, throwing 185-220-5275 

386
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,560
on there, like how, how are you 
kind of pyramiding that up? 

387
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,160
So that's actually a really good
question. 

388
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,880
I see a lot of people who do 
that. 

389
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,400
They'll do, they'll do theater 
sets and then they'll do like 

390
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,520
one work instead of a top set as
they call it. 

391
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,800
When I look at my program and it
says, you know, Smith machine 

392
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,640
rows, two sets of two sets of 
10, I'll warm up. 

393
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,720
I always do and then I will work
up to one working set. 

394
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,160
It's really hard. 
I usually try to be about one to

395
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,680
two reps away from failure with 
full range of motion, good 

396
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,720
technique. 
And once I feel like, OK, I 

397
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,560
can't get another Rep, I usually
stop. 

398
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,960
Now there are times where I will
go to failure of most of the 

399
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,320
times I always stop around 
about, you know, where I have 

400
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:48,160
about one or two left. 
And if I feel like if I exceed 

401
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,320
my my Rep range goal, well then 
I just bump the weight up and 

402
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,080
accept. 
And then the following week I'll

403
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,120
start heavier so that I don't 
exceed that goal. 

404
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,720
That makes sense. 
Yeah. 

405
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,440
But yeah, I like, I like to, I 
like to do my working sets. 

406
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:04,000
Each working set has to be like 
really close to failure or like 

407
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,520
one Rep away with continuing. 
And and are you not training two

408
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,720
failure simply so that you've 
got enough in the tank to 

409
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,800
continue to train that body part
for a few more movements within 

410
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,120
a day? 
I'm sorry, say it again. 

411
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,080
And are you not going to failure
simply so that you have enough 

412
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,360
left in the tank to continue 
taxing that muscle group with a 

413
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,480
few more additional exercises 
for that training session? 

414
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,320
Yeah. 
And I also realized that I can 

415
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,400
only go to failure so often 
before I start to feel run down.

416
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,160
So I'll maybe I'll go to failure
like one set per muscle group on

417
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,800
that given day. 
Sometimes I don't go to failure 

418
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,040
at all during my training, Like 
I won't go to failure at all. 

419
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,960
I'll get really close. 
I just found out that like I've 

420
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,960
learned that going really close 
to failure each set, I enjoy 

421
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,240
that better than, you know, 
taking one set to to failure 

422
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,360
just as long as every set is 
hard. 

423
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,480
I feel like I'm enjoying my 
workouts better that way. 

424
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,520
I like, I like feeling like my 
workouts are hard and when I'm 

425
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,720
at the gym and I'm training, I'm
making every set hard. 

426
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,920
That to me is a that's a good 
workout. 

427
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,480
That's that's how I feel best 
mentally as well as far as not 

428
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,720
just, you know, reading a piece 
of paper and saying, OK, let me 

429
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,000
do what it says on here, but how
am I feeling after the workout 

430
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,400
or during the workout? 
So I keep those things in mind. 

431
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,920
Yeah, no, totally, totally. 
And are you doing like multiple 

432
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,680
like if you're if you're doing 
like back and bias, for 

433
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,640
instance, are you going to be 
targeting back and bias an 

434
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,720
additional time that week or is 
it pretty much once a week for a

435
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,120
given body part? 
It depends. 

436
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,760
Right now I'm I'm actually doing
it twice. 

437
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,640
I'm doing a well, actually, I 
have no choice. 

438
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,360
I actually hurt my hamstring a 
couple weeks ago. 

439
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:41,560
So I'm pretty much only doing 
upper body for a few weeks. 

440
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,480
But yeah, there are times where 
I will do where I will do a 

441
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,520
muscle group twice. 
But when I do a muscle group 

442
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,200
twice, I will reduce the amount 
of volume that I do it each time

443
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,800
I train it. 
And that's another good example 

444
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,000
of when I won't take something a
failure. 

445
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,600
Because if I have back one day 
out of the week and I have back 

446
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,200
again, let's say in four days, 
well, I want to be fully 

447
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,360
recovered by the next time I 
train back again. 

448
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,160
So I will reduce the volume of 
that muscle group that I'm 

449
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,640
training twice a week. 
And with something like biceps, 

450
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,960
for instance, I feel like I 
could take biceps to failure 

451
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,880
pretty much every time I train 
them and they recover really 

452
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,120
fast. 
They're a smaller muscle group. 

453
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,600
They're not as as taxing as a 
big compound like saying I'm 

454
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,960
back. 
So with back I could probably, I

455
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,640
mean with biceps, I could do 
biceps, you know, eat three 

456
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,280
times a week even and still take
tests to failure and be fine. 

457
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,840
Yeah, no, that's kind of similar
to what I'm, I'm trying to do. 

458
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,720
I'll do like a full body. 
I've, I've never done a full 

459
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,520
body until here recently. 
I've always kind of done like a,

460
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,760
you know, body part split, like 
what you're referring to. 

461
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,640
But I've been doing a full body 
for the past two years. 

462
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,160
Did it all through my prep in 
2023 and it worked really well 

463
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,000
because like if I'm traveling a 
bunch, I can just simply do, you

464
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,880
know something. 
I do one exercise for each body 

465
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,560
part every single day, five days
a week typically. 

466
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,040
So if I've got like, if I'm 
traveling on Friday and Friday's

467
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,680
normally my back day, I don't 
have to worry about it because 

468
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,800
I'm still hitting back the other
four days a week. 

469
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,040
So there's not really any holes 
in my workout, so to speak. 

470
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,760
But I mean, the vast majority of
my training history has been 

471
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,320
doing exactly what you've 
described, and that seems to 

472
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,920
work pretty freaking well for 
most people. 

473
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,040
Yeah, that's cool. 
How do you like that doing a 

474
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,800
full body day? 
I like it man, and I like it a 

475
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,520
lot during my prep too, because 
like when you're depleted and 

476
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,640
like if you got like a stand 
alone leg day and you're, you 

477
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,800
know, 1700 calories and you've 
been prepping for 20 weeks, 25 

478
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,320
weeks, like is daunting mentally
to go into the gym by all right,

479
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,480
I'm going to slam legs today 
with like 5 different exercises,

480
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,640
but if you go in, you're like, 
OK, I've got one exercise for 

481
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,320
each body part and I'm just 
going to chip away at it and 

482
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,280
enjoy it and have a little bit 
of, you know, nuance to it all. 

483
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,560
Like it, it keeps things a 
little bit more fresh and it's 

484
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,480
just not as mentally taxing, I 
feel. 

485
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,440
Yeah, I just got done with the 
training phase where I was 

486
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,000
actually doing a full body day, 
but it was only once a week. 

487
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,440
So I would do a full body day. 
I would start my week with a, 

488
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,000
with a full body day. 
You know, I would start with the

489
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,320
legs. 
I'd do like a like the hack 

490
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,960
squat and then I'll move on to, 
I remember how the program went 

491
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,600
exactly, but it was, it would do
like a hack squat. 

492
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,440
Then I would do like a road. 
Then I would do like a chest 

493
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,840
movement. 
And then, you know, there was 

494
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,680
like shoulders in there and 
arms, I believe. 

495
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,120
But it was it was pretty 
compact, so I wouldn't get 

496
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:21,480
through it in about the same 
time frame that I would have a 

497
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,400
regular workout. 
So it didn't feel like I was at 

498
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,760
the gym for hours. 
And I actually really enjoyed it

499
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,080
a lot more than than I would 
have given credit to. 

500
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,120
So in the past, I've never, I 
would have never been open to 

501
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,000
doing a full body day. 
But after trying that out and 

502
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,760
seeing like I would leave the 
gym with like a great pump, you 

503
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,360
know, I just felt great walk out
of the gym feeling great after 

504
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:42,920
doing the full body day. 
So it's something that I'd 

505
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,400
probably be open to trying to 
get in the future. 

506
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,080
Yeah, I was always talking smack
about it, and then somebody was 

507
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,600
asking me about it, so I figured
I'd give it an honest try and 

508
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,080
see. 
And I just fell in love with it 

509
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,280
because I think as a natural 
athlete especially, there's a 

510
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,480
benefit to be had when you 
increase the training frequency 

511
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,240
of a given body part. 
So with, you know, my protocol 

512
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,280
with full body, I'm training 
like legs are getting hit every 

513
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,040
single day, five days a week. 
You know, that's a lot more 

514
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,560
frequency than just having, you 
know, one leg day a week. 

515
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,720
Now I'm granted any given 
session doesn't have that much 

516
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,720
intensity for a specific body 
part, but you're getting it much

517
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,400
more frequently and I think that
works well for me. 

518
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,560
So I'm guessing you don't really
get sore than if you're only 

519
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,880
training the muscle Group One 
day a week or how does how does 

520
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,280
that how do you feel after doing
training pretty much every 

521
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,600
muscle group every day out of 
the week? 

522
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,200
I honestly don't really get sore
at all. 

523
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,000
Like yesterday I did Sumo Dead's
four legs and then I had 

524
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,760
somebody coming in to interview 
with me and I decided to have 

525
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,040
him do deadlifts as part of the 
interview, so I did conventional

526
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,960
Dead's that same day. 
So that was kind of brutal. 

527
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,040
I'm a little bit sore from that 
doing sumo's and conventional on

528
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,440
the same day. 
But generally speaking, I don't 

529
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,120
ever really get crazy sore, But 
I'm, I'm like going pretty much 

530
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,240
to failure on my last set of 
everything. 

531
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,720
So I'm I'm taxing the muscles 
for sure. 

532
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,240
I'm, I'm seeing, you know, 
strength improvements over time,

533
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,120
but I'm not really getting, you 
know, overly sore one day the 

534
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,840
next. 
Yeah, I'd imagine you wouldn't 

535
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,040
want that anyway if you're gonna
be doing the same muscle groups 

536
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,600
the following day. 
Yeah, but that's pretty cool, 

537
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,320
man. 
That's pretty cool. 

538
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,440
Have you been following along 
with Dirk Emmerich at all like 

539
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,160
you watch his training? 
Yeah, absolutely, man. 

540
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,120
I started following Dirk in 
2021. 

541
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,880
I remember he was getting ready 
for his first ever competition 

542
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:34,560
season and we connected through 
Instagram and we we pretty much 

543
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,480
chopped it up throughout our 
entire prep. 

544
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,200
So it was pretty cool to, you 
know, have somebody that you can

545
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,120
interact with alongside of your 
prep. 

546
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,600
Well, they're also getting ready
for a prep. 

547
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,000
And yeah, I watch, I do watch 
his training and and it's 

548
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,160
probably the most perfect 
training I've ever seen. 

549
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,720
He's like super slow. 
Like he and I competed together.

550
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,600
I shared a stage with him at 
worlds and I mean, he, he won 

551
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,920
his, the weight class we were 
in. 

552
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,760
So I mean, he, he brought the 
package for sure. 

553
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,880
But like I was watching his 
training and he's just super, 

554
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,200
super slow. 
Like he's doing like, I don't 

555
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,480
know what his set and Rep scheme
is, but it's just all very, very

556
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,320
slow, methodical methodical with
every one of his movements. 

557
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,360
Yeah, yeah, I've seen, I, I see 
his videos all the time and I 

558
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:23,360
got to respect him for it, man 
'cause that it's not easy to 

559
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,600
train like that, especially for 
somebody like me, man. 

560
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,600
When I get in the gym, I don't 
even think I have it able to 

561
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,440
train like that 'cause I like to
be, I'm, I'm also very conscious

562
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,160
about the way I execute my 
movement. 

563
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,960
I try to be controlled, but I'm 
not that controlled. 

564
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,560
Yeah, like I like, you know, 
like I like going, you know, 

565
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,080
faster pace, super sitting 
things, drop sitting things. 

566
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,880
Like I like, you know, just 
basically I own my own gym. 

567
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,440
Like I've got the ability to to 
be noisy and loud and move and, 

568
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,840
and like, like he's just like, 
he's like a statue almost in 

569
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,120
there. 
Yeah, man. 

570
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,800
And that just goes to show man 
that there's no right or wrong 

571
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,760
way to train because he has one 
of the best natural physiques in

572
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,200
the world. 
I mean, clearly you saw how he 

573
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,400
looked at last year and look at 
the way he trains and obviously 

574
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,960
that's working out wonderful for
him. 

575
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,840
So you got to just got to 
appreciate it. 100%, man. 

576
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,040
Well, Speaking of there being 
more than one way to do things, 

577
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,680
talk to me a little bit about 
your nutrition. 

578
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,600
How do you have that structured?
I I track macros, 

579
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:27,160
straightforward track macros, 
but it feels to me like it kind 

580
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,800
of is like a meal plan because I
eat about the same times every 

581
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,040
day. 
I eat the same foods a lot, you 

582
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,080
know, switch them out obviously,
but just track my macros. 

583
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,160
So every morning I wake up, I 
eat the same breakfast. 

584
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,800
I usually eat my lunch around 
the same time every day, which 

585
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,960
is usually the same lunch. 
I might change the protein 

586
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,080
source. 
I might have chicken one day, I 

587
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,760
might have beef the next, might 
have rice one day, I might have 

588
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,840
potatoes the next. 
But same times, same portion 

589
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,280
sizes, same dinner at the same 
time. 

590
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,840
And then pretty much that's the 
way I've always done it. 

591
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,960
I started doing that when I was 
like 18 or 19, just tracking my 

592
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:03,400
macros. 
And over the years I kind of 

593
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,160
cleaned it up a bit because when
I started was when flexible 

594
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,000
dieting was like huge thing 
like, oh, if it's your macros, 

595
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,160
I'm not sure if you remember 
those days or if you were 

596
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440
following that dieting approach 
around that time, but that was 

597
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,640
huge back then. 
And that's how I started. 

598
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920
And I even remember I fell at 
the time, I used to feel like I 

599
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,680
needed to put like ice cream in 
my diet, things like that, you 

600
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,480
know, and same thing now over 
the years, over the years, I, I 

601
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,760
tend to stick more to Whole 
Foods, try to cut out processed 

602
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,160
foods, not completely. 
I don't completely cut them out 

603
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,200
100% of the offseason, but I do 
try to be a, you know, keep it, 

604
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,840
keep it simple. 
I just prefer simplicity with my

605
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,760
diet. 
Yeah, no, 100% man. 

606
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,040
And are you, you're tracking 
macros obviously during your 

607
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,080
prep, but also pretty 
consistently throughout the 

608
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,480
offseason as well, right? 
Yes, yeah, always. 

609
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,160
Yes. 
And I do have a little more, 

610
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,960
more freedom in the offseason. 
Like I'm not perfect with 

611
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,080
everything in the offseason, if 
that makes sense. 

612
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,880
I sometimes I'll go over a 
little bit like on my carb 

613
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,400
intake. 
It's not like it doesn't have to

614
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,560
be on the dot during prep. 
It's a completely different 

615
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,360
story. 
But yeah. 

616
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,320
And I, my, as far as like the, 
my macros are, I'm more of a 

617
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,600
little bit higher carb. 
That's the approach that my, my,

618
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,880
my client or my client, my coach
takes the higher carb, high, 

619
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,120
high protein, high carb and then
like moderate fats. 

620
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:31,160
But like right now I'm like 6068
grams of fat, like 280 carbs. 

621
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,840
And what's your protein? 
240 right now. 

622
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,800
OK. 
And you're weighing about one 

623
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,480
95200 somewhere. 
In there, probably about low one

624
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,320
90s at the moment, about 192 I 
would say. 

625
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,080
Nice, nice. 
And then when you So what does 

626
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,000
that breakdown 2 calories just 
off top? 

627
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,120
I want to say about 2600. 
OK. 

628
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,400
And you're pretty satiated at 
that. 

629
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,360
A little bit. 
I mean, I do get cravings, I'm 

630
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,720
not gonna lie, because I just 
finished a mini cut. 

631
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,600
I started that in December and 
it was a very slow mini cut 

632
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,120
didn't until April. 
But I lost 25 lbs just strictly 

633
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,240
from reducing calories. 
And I've been, we've been 

634
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,320
reintroducing food now 
introducing more carbs now into 

635
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,800
the diet, but it's been a very 
slow increase by the week or 

636
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,480
every other week. 
Not every week, but every other 

637
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,360
week. 
And so coming out of that small 

638
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,360
cut, I, I have had like moments 
where I'm like, I'm a little 

639
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,280
hungry and all then, you know, 
but it's not, it's nothing that 

640
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,920
I can't handle. 
So you. 

641
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,560
Your last prep was 21 you said 
right? 

642
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,480
Yes. 
So from there you reverse diet 

643
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,880
up and you, you competed, you 
said 161 at the IPA worlds. 

644
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,160
And then what would you reverse 
diet up to? 

645
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,640
Like what'd you get up to after 
that? 

646
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,960
Man, honestly, I, that prep took
such a toll on me because it was

647
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,640
a, it was a very lengthy prep. 
So I remember I struggled a lot 

648
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,400
with reversing after the show 
where I was probably gaining 

649
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,480
like 5 lbs a week, every week 
for like the first like month 

650
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,880
and a half, two months, because 
I couldn't stop having these 

651
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,280
impulses to just binge. 
And I struggled. 

652
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,800
I struggled a lot with that. 
I'm not gonna lie. 

653
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,680
I struggled a lot with that. 
It's something that I learned 

654
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,120
that I have to have a better eye
on a better control on the next 

655
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,920
time I get out of a prep and I 
start reversing. 

656
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,440
I would like to have an actual 
more monitored reverse. 

657
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,680
But I think part of the reason 
why I struggled a lot with that 

658
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,080
reverse as well is because it 
was very slow. 

659
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,840
Like I saw, I've seen guys who 
after a prep, you know, their 

660
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,400
car will go from like whatever 
they were during their prep to 

661
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,960
like 300 grams of carb today. 
Mine didn't, my coach didn't do 

662
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,920
that with me his it was a very 
slow increase after, after the 

663
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,280
prep and I was like, man, I was 
like, I'm not in prep anymore. 

664
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,680
Like I just want to eat more. 
So I would eat more and you 

665
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,720
know, I paid the price, but I 
just, I just didn't feel good. 

666
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,160
I would, I would feel awful. 
Like every time I would binge, I

667
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,000
just felt horrible mentally, 
physically. 

668
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,880
So I would like to do a proper 
reverse the next time around. 

669
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,640
It's tough, man. 
Like this is something that 

670
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,920
every bodybuilder deals with to 
some degree, but it rarely ever 

671
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,800
gets talked about because it's 
it's not sexy to talk about how 

672
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,800
much weight you're gaining or 
how much body fat you put on. 

673
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,600
Everyone wants to talk about how
much weight to lose and how lean

674
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,320
they are with their body fat 
percentages when they're in a 

675
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,800
cut. 
But like when the show's over 

676
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,920
and no one's watching, it's like
nobody talks about eating in 

677
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,120
excess. 
And like I've struggled with it.

678
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Every single bodybuilder has to 
some extent. 

679
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,120
So I appreciate you being honest
with me there. 

680
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,000
But like that, that is something
that is not easy to do, man. 

681
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,840
Like I think the reverse diet is
more psychologically taxing than

682
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,240
the prep itself. 
Cause like when you're in a 

683
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840
prep, like for me at least, I 
just flip a switch. 

684
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,200
Like when I'm in prep mode, that
switch is flipped. 

685
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,760
Like deviation is not an option.
So because it's not an option, I

686
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,080
don't even think about it. 
But when the show's over, it's 

687
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,160
like, what's the worst that can 
happen? 

688
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,960
Like I can, I can eat a little 
bit more. 

689
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,600
So you do and there's just no. 
It's easy to go off the rails 

690
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,120
for sure. 
I agree 100%. 

691
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,080
During prep, you're, you're 
locked in. 

692
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,160
There's a goal there. 
You're trying to achieve this, 

693
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,840
you know, trying to get on stage
and achieve this look, And once 

694
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,520
that's once that's gone, like 
they're not even thinking about,

695
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,440
you're not even thinking about 
the stage anymore and it's gone.

696
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,520
And you finally feel that sense 
of, I get this, a sense of 

697
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,560
freedom that you feel like 
you're not, you don't feel like 

698
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,159
so confined to just eating very 
low amount of food. 

699
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,120
You just want to eat everything 
inside. 

700
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,040
And now that there is no show, 
well, you're like, OK, well, 

701
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,000
what's like you said, what's the
worst that can happen? 

702
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,360
So that's probably the hardest 
thing about getting out of a 

703
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,679
prep, especially if if you're 
like a first time competitor, 

704
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,040
man, it's gonna it's gonna be 
hard. 

705
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,199
Yeah, yeah. 
And I feel like, you know, it's 

706
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:44,280
strange that reverse dieting, 
like outside of the bodybuilding

707
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,760
space, like it's not even talked
about. 

708
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,400
Like I, I work with a lot of 
clients that are not 

709
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,080
bodybuilders and I talk to them 
about reverse dieting and 

710
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,600
ramping up their metabolic rate 
and, and they kind of their eyes

711
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,560
glaze over. 
But like in, in the bodybuilding

712
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,840
circles, it's pretty well 
understood. 

713
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,800
And there's been a lot of 
controversy as of late it seemed

714
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,480
as to what the best approach to 
reverse dieting is. 

715
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,200
Like some people are a fan of 
reversing slowly. 

716
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,240
Some people are more so like, 
hey, let's just get you right 

717
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:11,280
back up to maintenance pretty 
much immediately post show and 

718
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,000
then slowly increase from there.
I think a lot of it really 

719
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,240
honestly just depends on what's 
best for one's psychology. 

720
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:23,040
Like I, I think, you know, for 
me, I like to maintain a lot of 

721
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,520
the habits and routines that I 
implemented going into prep. 

722
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,120
So I continue to do my posing 
practice. 

723
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,440
I continue to do my same 
workouts and some degree of 

724
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,440
cardio and I, I continue to 
track my intake and scale that 

725
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,200
up gradually. 
And that works better for me 

726
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,440
psychologically. 
But you know, it's, it's 

727
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:41,760
different for everybody, I would
imagine. 

728
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,040
Yeah, like, yeah, absolutely. 
I think the most important thing

729
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,960
is to you gotta get somebody 
back to like a baseline where 

730
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,520
there's where they're feeling, 
where they're not thinking about

731
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,160
food all the time. 
So if they have like, I guess 

732
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,840
it's gonna depend on the person.
Me, I'm somebody who was very 

733
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,200
food focused during prep. 
Like I couldn't stop thinking 

734
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,640
about food during prep as then I
got to a point during prep, like

735
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,000
near the end where I was, I 
couldn't stop thinking about 

736
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,480
what I was going to eat after 
the show. 

737
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,920
And I know that's not a good a 
good way to, you know, to feel 

738
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,920
going into a show. 
It's like a bit, what am I going

739
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,360
to eat after? 
But it's also because during the

740
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,120
prep I was so like you said, you
know, I was just so locked in. 

741
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:26,160
I couldn't, I was not going to 
deviate from the plan at all. 

742
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,400
I was like dotted every I 
crossed all my TS. 

743
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,960
I was perfect. 
And then after prep I was like, 

744
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,160
OK, cool. 
Now I could just, I should be 

745
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,720
able to eat more And when I 
didn't, when I realized that I 

746
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:42,960
couldn't just eat whatever I 
wanted, it was actually it 

747
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,320
turned on me because now I just,
I was binging. 

748
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:51,040
So if I think the next time 
around after a prep, what, what 

749
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,680
I think I should do just for me 
at least would be to right off 

750
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,960
the bat probably have like a 
couple 100 extra grams of carbs 

751
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,320
per day and just make that like 
my baseline for a while. 

752
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,120
So instead I would have like if 
I was eating 100 grams of carbs 

753
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:08,720
like near the end of my prep, 
now I'd be eating like 300 or 

754
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:13,200
400 grams of carbs and just stay
at that amount of food for a few

755
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,760
weeks, a couple of months and 
make no changes to it and see 

756
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,520
how that works out. 
I think I would have a better 

757
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,280
like psychologically I would 
feel better and have a better 

758
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,200
control on everything and I 
probably wouldn't binge as much 

759
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,760
as I did last time. 
Yeah, and 100%, man, I think 

760
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,480
like the types of foods make a 
big difference. 

761
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,480
Like for me, you know, I'm doing
strict keto with everything. 

762
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,680
So like after my show, like I 
went to Brazilian steakhouse and

763
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,920
just ate a ton of meat, you 
know, and I think that helps a 

764
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,280
lot because without the without 
the massive spike in blood 

765
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,400
sugar, you don't have the, the 
crazy volatile swings and 

766
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,760
cravings and, you know, hunger 
cues. 

767
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,040
So I think that helps, at least 
does for me for sure. 

768
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,520
But most competitors are 
obviously using carbohydrates. 

769
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,600
So I think doing something like 
that would make total sense. 

770
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,520
Absolutely, man, I've never, 
I've never tried keto. 

771
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,400
I've heard about it, but I've 
always hitting a carb guy. 

772
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,640
But I was actually curious to 
ask you what made you want to 

773
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,520
take that approach and live that
lifestyle, do keto and just you 

774
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,120
know, and, and how long have you
been doing it? 

775
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,760
Man, I have not had a 
carbohydrate meal in like 8 or 

776
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,320
nine years now. 
Wow. 

777
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,920
Yeah, like no rice. 
No, that's impressive. 

778
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,840
None of that. 
And honestly for me, like I 

779
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:29,320
started because after my SO, my 
first prep was in 2012, didn't 

780
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,400
have a clue what I was doing. 
I bulked up to 230, lost 80 lbs 

781
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,840
in 12 weeks from my first show 
and did everything wrong. 

782
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,280
Lost a bunch of muscle, 
developed a bunch of eating 

783
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,960
disorders afterwards. 
And I did that for like my first

784
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,360
three competitions. 
And then I was like playing 

785
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,360
around with all different kinds 
of diets, trying to get a better

786
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,200
relationship with food and 
figure out how to make it 

787
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,800
sustainable. 
I started doing keto before keto

788
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,280
was really popular and that was 
back in 2014, two 1015. 

789
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,000
And for me, it really just 
improved my overall relationship

790
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,160
with food. 
I can, I can moderate my hunger 

791
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,640
much better. 
I can like actually know what 

792
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,120
true hunger and satiety felt 
like as opposed to not. 

793
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,560
And so I just cut out the carbs 
completely pretty much from then

794
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,240
on out, from then on out. 
And I tried competing for the 

795
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:16,680
first time in 2017 with a 
ketogenic approach and I got 

796
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,760
leaner than I'd never gotten. 
I felt better. 

797
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,400
I didn't lose it near as much 
strength or lean tissue, so I 

798
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,880
was pretty much sold on it from 
that point forward and I've just

799
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,840
always done it ever since. 
Yeah, and I'm sure when you're 

800
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,760
eating, when you're not eating 
carbs at all, you probably are 

801
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:36,680
less likely to have those those 
binging episodes because man, 

802
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,800
like carbohydrates, man like the
sugar and everything like that. 

803
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,160
It's just different, man. 
It's I feel like that has AI 

804
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,440
guess it's just more appealing. 
You just want to stuff your face

805
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,240
more and if you're eating higher
fat foods is just not the same 

806
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:54,200
'cause you're more satiated when
you're eating the foods that 

807
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,720
you're eating. 
Yeah, and I feel like your 

808
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,880
hormones appreciate it more 
because like from a, from a 

809
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,280
hormonal standpoint, like if 
you're not eating hardly any 

810
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,520
fat, like like cholesterol and 
you know, saturated fat, like 

811
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,880
all that is like the precursor 2
testosterone and two proper 

812
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,120
hormone levels. 
So like, if you have hardly any 

813
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,000
fat coming in and you're super 
depleted, those numbers are all 

814
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,920
going to be jacked up. 
And yeah, I mean, you can 

815
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,240
definitely still gain body fat 
without carbs, but it's, it's 

816
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:25,440
not like, like binging on 5000 
calories of cookies and ice 

817
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,120
cream is different than binging 
on 5000 calories of, you know, 

818
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,720
chicken breast and 8020 ground 
beef, you know? 

819
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,240
Yeah, absolutely, man, so but. 
I don't know, there's 

820
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:40,480
definitely, I mean, people have 
been getting lean, you know, 

821
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,200
with, with bro dieting, flexible
dieting, there's a lot of 

822
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,200
different ways to get lean. 
So it's kind of really just a 

823
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,720
matter of what's more 
sustainable for, for the 

824
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:51,840
individual. 
But I, I hope that keto 

825
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,960
bodybuilding kind of gains more 
momentum because I certainly 

826
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,280
think it would, you know, be 
very effective for a lot of 

827
00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:59,400
people. 
I've worked with a lot of people

828
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,640
and it seems to work well with 
them because like, like we were 

829
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,480
saying earlier, man, like so 
many people struggle with the 

830
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,840
food addiction standpoint of it 
post show especially. 

831
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,720
And I feel like if there's any 
way to mitigate against that, 

832
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,800
then then that should be a goal 
for sure. 

833
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,160
Yeah, absolutely. 
And I saw that you do a you are 

834
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,600
a keto brick. 
Well, tell me a little bit about

835
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,560
that man. 
I was actually kind of curious 

836
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,280
to ask you about it and find out
more. 

837
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,200
Yeah, so you know, you know how 
like backstage, everybody's 

838
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,800
sucking down rice cakes. 
Yeah, I have all the time, man. 

839
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,240
So the keto brick is kind of 
like my version of a rice cake. 

840
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:39,160
So I made that for my 2017 prep 
and since I'm keto, like I'm 

841
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,840
getting my energy from fat, not 
from carbs. 

842
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,560
And I'm getting, you know, I'm 
having to fill out my muscle 

843
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,160
glycogen with fats and proteins 
from the glycerol backbone of 

844
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,280
the fats and from the amino 
acids from the proteins, not 

845
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,840
from carbohydrates. 
So that is how I'm feeling that 

846
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,760
that's how I'm getting energy. 
That's how I'm getting a little 

847
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,720
bit of extra sodium in to draw 
in that fluid into the muscle 

848
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,040
tissue and outside of that 
subcutaneous layer of skin. 

849
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,640
Like that is my backstage method
for providing energy and filling

850
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,760
out and just bringing that crisp
package. 

851
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,280
And I never planned on it being 
a product that I sold it just I 

852
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,200
was documenting my prep and 
people kept asking about it on 

853
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,040
my YouTube channel. 
So I decided to roll up my 

854
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,680
sleeves and, and turn into a 
product and it just kind of took

855
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,640
hold ever since. 
But yeah, it's, it's 1000 

856
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,160
calories ketogenic. 
The main ingredient is cacao 

857
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,960
butter. 
So really high source of stearic

858
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,040
acid, really easily digested fat
source. 

859
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,240
And yet we we make those and 
ship them all over the world. 

860
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,080
That's pretty cool. 
And so eating So what food 

861
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,440
sources are like, you know how 
you say for carbs, there's like 

862
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,240
certain foods that you could eat
that I guess you could pay for a

863
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,480
pump. 
Well, what would you eat like 

864
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,160
backstage before you know you're
going to a show? 

865
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,880
It would be just that, just the 
keto break. 

866
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:54,080
Yeah, So like my, my, my peaking
strategy is pretty much like I 

867
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,360
don't manipulate my water at 
all. 

868
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,800
Like I'm literally drinking a 
gallon of water before I step on

869
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,280
stage. 
Like not immediately before, but

870
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,800
like before I step on stage that
day, I probably had a gallon of 

871
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,000
water in me already, which is 
different, different than a lot 

872
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,040
of people. 
A lot of people are cutting 

873
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,120
water. 
I don't do any of that. 

874
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,000
Like I'm staying hydrated the 
whole time and the night before 

875
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:17,480
I'm having an increase of fat 
and protein over my baseline 

876
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,000
intake. 
So for instance, I think during 

877
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,440
this last prep, my my calories 
got down to like 17/18/19 

878
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,440
hundred somewhere in there. 
And then on the Friday before 

879
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,920
the show, I would have probably 
2526, twenty, 800 calories 

880
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,280
coming from just more fat and 
protein. 

881
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,280
And I'm normally making like a 
keto pizza. 

882
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,920
So like the crust is made with 
almond flour and cheese and I'm 

883
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,960
having like 250 grams of fat, 
whereas everybody else is having

884
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,360
like 2-3 hundred grams of carbs.
So that's what's giving me 

885
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,040
energy and filling me out the 
next day. 

886
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,000
Plus I'm having a little 
increase in sodium as well. 

887
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,680
So I was having like 15,000 
milligrams of sodium the night 

888
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,760
before. 
And do you, do you feel like 

889
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,800
following the keto diet during a
prep? 

890
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,280
Do you feel like it's still 
that? 

891
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,600
Does it keep you more satiated 
as to what if somebody was 

892
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,400
eating carbs and relying on 
carbs to get their energy? 

893
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,200
Or do you think you're still 
with as long as you're eating 

894
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,640
the lower calories you're still 
going to struggle with like 

895
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,280
energy and appetite over time? 
I mean, you're still hungry for 

896
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,160
sure. 
Like, I, I mean, the keto diet's

897
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,400
amazing, but it's not like a, 
it's not like a miracle. 

898
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,120
Like you're still gonna be 
hungry when you're, when you're 

899
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,640
sub 5% body fat and you're 
taking in fewer calories than 

900
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,720
normal. 
I mean, you're, you're gonna be 

901
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,880
hungry no matter what diet 
you're following, but there's 

902
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,280
not gonna be near the flux in 
blood sugar levels because 

903
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,920
you're not having the 
carbohydrates or sugars or 

904
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,560
anything like that. 
So like my, my blood sugar stays

905
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,760
consistently between 70 and 90 
at all times. 

906
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,600
I mean, it spikes a little bit 
when I'm training, but that's 

907
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640
normal. 
But it's not like changing at 

908
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,680
all with the foods I'm eating 
and changes in blood sugar, 

909
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,040
changes in blood insulin, like 
that's what's causing a lot of 

910
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,240
shifts in hunger and energy 
crashes and whatnot. 

911
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,520
So I can pretty much bypass all 
of that. 

912
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,880
And I'm typically only eating, 
you know, when my calories get 

913
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,360
below about 2200, I switched to 
one meal a day. 

914
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,640
So I'm only eating once a day. 
And I think not thinking about 

915
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,000
food all the time also really 
makes it more satiating because 

916
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,560
if you're eating 456 meals a day
and you eat one meal and you're 

917
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,760
just thinking about your next 
meal, like you're just in a 

918
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,720
constant state of, you know, 
food fixation. 

919
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,880
And if you can bypass that, then
you can do away with a lot of 

920
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,200
that hunger. 
Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine 

921
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,000
trying that out. 
But also you just, you never 

922
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,560
know, I guess I've been 
following the same approach to 

923
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,080
my dieting for so long now that 
I feel like the only way that I,

924
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,800
I can do it. 
But you just never know until 

925
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,360
you try something different. 
And like you said, you know, 

926
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,440
you've been doing it for eight 
or nine years, so it works out 

927
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:49,280
really well for you. 
Shoot. 

928
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,400
Man, you ever want to try you 
let me know brother, I'd be 

929
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,000
happy to help. 
I don't know, man, I don't know.

930
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,080
I feel like I, I don't know, I 
look too forward to too much 

931
00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,840
forward to like my, like my 
refeeds. 

932
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,360
And there's certain foods like, 
oh, like I'll me and my 

933
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,040
girlfriend always talk about 
where are we going to go out to 

934
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,320
eat this weekend for our refeed 
because she's also a competitive

935
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,880
figure athlete. 
And so we kind of live a very, 

936
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,360
you know, pretty much live the 
same lifestyle. 

937
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,800
We have the same coach, we have 
the same training, we similar 

938
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,920
dieting. 
So kind of just the same thing, 

939
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,200
man. 
So we kind of get excited about 

940
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,200
little things like that, but. 
No, that's good. 

941
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:25,040
For sure. 
That's good. 

942
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:26,760
It's good. 
You got someone in your corner 

943
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,560
doing the same thing with you 
living the lifestyle. 

944
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,360
Like I can't imagine being with 
someone that is not, not 

945
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,600
necessarily they don't both have
to compete, but like not into 

946
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,560
health, not in training. 
Like that would just be very 

947
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,440
challenging. 
Yeah, I have to have like 

948
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,840
similar habits. 
I feel like it helps a lot, man.

949
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,120
And, and I I know what you mean.
I I've seen it where's one 

950
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,600
person in a relationship is 
completely like all about the 

951
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,520
bodybuilding life thought the 
other person isn't. 

952
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,000
And you know, they might have 
conflicting views on things and 

953
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,080
you know, it's, it's a lot like 
things are. 

954
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,960
It's pretty smooth and nice when
the banks are on the same page 

955
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,440
about a lot of things like that.
So. 

956
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,720
Totally, totally. 
So, So talking a little bit 

957
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:06,600
about the how you've got things 
structured. 

958
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,640
So you did your last show in 21.
You're going to compete next 

959
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:15,400
year, SO25 and NO20. 
What year are we in? 

960
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,440
We're in 2024. 20 yeah, yeah, 25
minutes. 

961
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,040
Here, so, So are you. 
You bulked up. 

962
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:26,720
What was the heaviest you got? 
I got up to 215 two 15216 right 

963
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:29,600
around December of last year. 
And what do you think your body 

964
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,080
fat was then? 
I was up there, man. 

965
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,520
I had, I don't know exactly. 
I'm not really good at 

966
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,680
estimating body fat levels, but 
I was probably I teens, you 

967
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,480
know, like 19% and I got down to
119190. 

968
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,680
I got down to about 190 in April
and I've, I've, I've been 

969
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,800
fluctuating around 19192 ever 
since. 

970
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,560
I haven't, my body's really 
stubborn. 

971
00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:01,440
So the way like if I start 
losing weight and I hit, I get 

972
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,120
to my goal, my weight's gonna 
stay at that, at that range for 

973
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:06,600
a while. 
Like I don't have to just keep 

974
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,000
adding food, adding food, adding
food until I finally break out 

975
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,200
of that, you know, being stuck 
in that spot. 

976
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,600
And right now I've been stuck in
this spot for about two months 

977
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,520
now. 
So but it's not, you know, I 

978
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,520
feel good. 
I feel great. 

979
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,960
Workouts are great, energy is 
great, appetite is, you know, 

980
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,560
fine. 
And you said you're at about 

981
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:29,040
2600 calories now. 
I might, I might be a little bit

982
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,520
over. 
I might be 2700 I 26 and 2800 

983
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,680
somewhere in that range. 
I I know it's changed reasonably

984
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,320
so, but it's it's up there. 
It's under 3000 for sure. 

985
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,520
And what was your intake when 
you were at the 215 Martin, do 

986
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,840
you know? 
Say I was like close to 4000. 

987
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:48,920
I was pretty, I was up, I was 
up. 

988
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,760
I was eating about 530 grams of 
carbs a day. 

989
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,960
Proteins were very similar to 
what they are right now, so they

990
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,920
were probably like between 2:40 
and 260 and I think my fats were

991
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,960
probably closer to like 90g and 
so I was close to about $4000. 

992
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,480
What was the goal for the mini 
cut? 

993
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,400
Did you just feel like being 
that heavy was hindering your 

994
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,360
training performance? 
Well, I was pretty much red 

995
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,320
lighting my body, man. 
I mean, I was at a point where I

996
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,320
wasn't out if any more weight 
out again, I was just going to 

997
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,160
get fatter. 
And my, my body composition was 

998
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,120
already, you know, I was a 
little bit uncomfortable at that

999
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,080
point. 
I was starting to get to the 

1000
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,640
point where I was feeling a 
little bit uncomfortable. 

1001
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,400
I'm OK with gaining enough 
weight where I don't, I can't 

1002
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:30,800
see my eyes. 
I feel strong. 

1003
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,920
But then, you know, after so 
long, you just have to kind of, 

1004
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,560
you have to make that shift. 
You have to start cutting down 

1005
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,400
again and then build back up, 
you know, and that's, that was 

1006
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,520
feeling. 
I was at that point, I was 

1007
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,840
probably bulking for about a 
year and I got to that. 

1008
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,720
I got to that weight and it was 
time to bring it back down. 

1009
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,680
Yeah. 
And when you were doing the mini

1010
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,760
cut, what was the lowest you 
took your calories down to? 

1011
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:02,000
Like 221 hundred 2000. 
Like the low 2000s. 

1012
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,880
Gotcha, gotcha. 
So still not near as low as 

1013
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,040
you'd probably take it in an 
actual prep then. 

1014
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,200
No, well, actually I, I remember
my carbs were about 100 and like

1015
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,000
70 at the end of my mini cut, 
which is not far off from where 

1016
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,040
I would get during the prep 
during the prep like I know my 

1017
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,840
carbs get down to about 1:40 at 
the lowest, not including like 

1018
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:29,040
peak week and I was, but 
surprisingly I wasn't I wasn't 

1019
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,960
like having like major like 
hunger episodes during that mini

1020
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,600
cut. 
I felt fine and I didn't really 

1021
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,800
lose any. 
I lost a little bit of strength,

1022
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,080
but I felt fine. 
I felt great. 

1023
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,560
So it was, it was overall, it 
was a very smooth, very smooth 

1024
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,840
mini cut. 
And from here, like right now 

1025
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,840
from here where I'm at, I'm 
gonna talk. 

1026
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,360
I talked with my coach. 
We're just gonna reintroduce 

1027
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,480
food like carbs, like I was 
telling you earlier and get to a

1028
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,760
point where I'm not like Pete 
Bulk, but I'm also not too lean 

1029
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:00,920
'cause I got I got a little 
lean. 

1030
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,400
And we're gonna set up starting 
point for prep for next year. 

1031
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,080
I like it, I like it. 
Do you? 

1032
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,280
Do you know how lean? 
Like what? 

1033
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,080
Any idea what your body fat was 
at the depth of that mini cut? 

1034
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,840
Like 12 percent, 10%. 
Yeah, I was probably, yeah, I 

1035
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,520
was probably about, I want to 
say like 12%, eleven percent. 

1036
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,440
I I could never really see my 
abs like in the offseason and I 

1037
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,080
could see even now, I could 
still see my abs pretty good. 

1038
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,720
I see a lot more lines and 
details around the weight that 

1039
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:28,640
I'm at. 
So I'm probably about even right

1040
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,640
now. 
I'm probably like 1213% body 

1041
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,240
fat. 
Nice, nice. 

1042
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,400
Yeah. 
I feel like modulating between 

1043
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,720
those is key. 
Like, I think, you know, as a 

1044
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:41,240
natural bodybuilder and I'm so 
glad that WNBF changes, but 

1045
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:45,200
like, they're allowing us to 
compete, you know, much longer 

1046
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,080
between shows that we don't lose
our pro status, that we can just

1047
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,640
maintain our membership dues. 
Like, they made that shift last 

1048
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,640
year, which is just a great 
transition because I think, you 

1049
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,200
know, incentivizing competitors 
compete every single year, every

1050
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,080
other year is oftentimes just 
too frequent. 

1051
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,760
I mean, like, you and I both, we
take pretty long preps. 

1052
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,600
Like my last prep is 33 weeks. 
You said you did a long prep as 

1053
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,520
well. 
Like when you're prepping for 

1054
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,400
that long and then you reverse 
that out of that, Like, you 

1055
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,040
don't have any year left to 
build more size. 

1056
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,200
And as a natural, like, you have
to have enough time to build 

1057
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,960
size to actually look different 
the next time you step on stage.

1058
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,160
So yeah, I think, you know, 
giving yourself that ample time 

1059
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,200
to be in a build and then not 
dipping into those, you know, 

1060
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,760
poverty macros and doing like a 
prep too frequently is key. 

1061
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,360
But yeah, modulating between 
that higher range of what a 

1062
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,360
healthy build phase is to the 
lower range then kind of backup 

1063
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,400
I think is is a good idea. 
I'm probably going to do the 

1064
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,920
same thing myself. 
Like right now I'm 193 and for 

1065
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,360
me that's about 1718% body fat. 
So pretty much on the upper end 

1066
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:47,880
of what I would deem acceptable 
for me in the build phase. 

1067
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,240
And I think I'm going to try and
titrate that down to about 12% 

1068
00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:54,880
body fat and then just go from 
12 back up to 18 and just kind 

1069
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,240
of keep cycling between that 
window, but between now and the 

1070
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:02,720
next time I start a prep. 
And do you have any idea when 

1071
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:04,960
your next prep will be when you 
plan to compete again? 

1072
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:09,880
Man, I'm going to do a long 
build phase 'cause I after 

1073
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,040
competing the world's, it's like
next time I compete at world's, 

1074
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,520
I'm going to win world's Like I,
I don't want to just go and step

1075
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:16,800
on stage like I want to go to 
win. 

1076
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,720
And I know for me, in order to 
do that I've got to put on more 

1077
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:22,080
size. 
So I'm probably going to take 

1078
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,360
like a legit five year building 
phase. 

1079
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:28,960
Yeah, you know, I mean you we 
kind of have the same like the 

1080
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,160
similar approach to the way like
competing. 

1081
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,120
There's people that compete 
every year, natural bodybuilders

1082
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,720
talking about they compete every
year now just don't see how you 

1083
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:42,120
can make, you know, great like 
greater strides in progress 

1084
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,520
competing every year as opposed 
to taking a, you know, minimum, 

1085
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,720
minimum two year offseason. 
But even two years is, you know,

1086
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,120
it's not as can't make as much 
progress as you would in a three

1087
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,360
or four year offseason. 
So that was the that I was the 

1088
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,800
same way when I competed in the 
in 2021 and people were telling 

1089
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,880
me to do worlds. 
And I was like, I just, I don't,

1090
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,040
I don't, I wouldn't be happy 
with what I would bring to that 

1091
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,400
stage. 
And so I took the offseason from

1092
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,520
the last 2-3 years now almost 
before I decided I yeah, I think

1093
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,400
I'm ready to compete again. 
Nice. 

1094
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,840
That's the way to do it, man. 
Are you going to compete at a 

1095
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,000
few shows and then make Worlds 
the final show or are you going 

1096
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,840
to just go for Worlds or what 
are you thinking there? 

1097
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,440
For sure I want to do, I want to
end it with World's Washington 

1098
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,520
State Naturals obviously going 
to be on that list. 

1099
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,240
As far as other shows, I haven't
thought, you know, that that I 

1100
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:37,480
could think outside of the WMBF 
as well. 

1101
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,920
I know there's a lot more shows 
going on now, but I haven't 

1102
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,920
really looked into it. 
Man, I, I would like to do more 

1103
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,440
than those two shows, though. 
I would like to do like at least

1104
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,720
three shows and I don't want to 
take this really long offseason 

1105
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:53,840
to just do one or two shows. 
I would like to do multiple 

1106
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,320
shows, but we'll see how that 
how that turns out. 

1107
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,600
I'll probably put a plan 
together when I start my prep 

1108
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,680
next year. 
And are you willing to travel 

1109
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,920
pretty good ways for shows? 
Yeah, yeah, man, I actually 

1110
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,280
traveled that prep. 
I went to Missouri to compete at

1111
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:14,840
IPE Worlds and that was a very 
spontaneous decision that I 

1112
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,760
made. 
I what was it? 

1113
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,400
I was supposed to do some shows 
that I never ended up doing that

1114
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:27,360
season and my coach brought it 
up to me IPE worlds and he he's 

1115
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,840
good friends with the promoters 
of a lot of those shows because 

1116
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,960
he's in that area where there's 
a lot of IPE events that take 

1117
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,760
place out there. 
He talked to me about it and 

1118
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,880
there was a like a two week, 
like a two week, two weeks 

1119
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,120
before the show and that was 
there was still enough time for 

1120
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,560
me to to get ready for it or to 
register for it and everything 

1121
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,120
like that. 
So we everything was last 

1122
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,560
minute, but we got it all taken 
care of and it was it was fun, 

1123
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:51,680
man. 
It was a great experience. 

1124
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,560
That was the that was the person
had traveled for a show. 

1125
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,760
I'm I'm over at Washington. 
Yeah, no, that's awesome. 

1126
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,160
I hate that. 
I didn't know you were at the 

1127
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,280
Washington show. 
I'd love to, would, would, would

1128
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,640
love to have met you in person 
there. 

1129
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,640
Well, I was at worlds too. 
I know I I didn't, I didn't see 

1130
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:06,880
that either. 
I guess you would have been in 

1131
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:08,760
the audience though. 
Yeah. 

1132
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,760
But yeah, man, we definitely got
to cross our path. 

1133
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,560
I think Aaron's competing next 
year as well, right? 

1134
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:16,920
Yeah, yeah, he is. 
He is. 

1135
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,920
And I was actually joking with 
him about. 

1136
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,200
I was like, I guess we're going 
to run it back. 

1137
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:21,480
I like it. 
Who? 

1138
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,200
Who won that last one? 
Was it you or him? 

1139
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,720
I won. 
I won on a like I want to say 3 

1140
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:30,720
judges scorecards or something 
like that, and some judges 

1141
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,560
actually gave it to him. 
So it was a split decision. 

1142
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,920
It was a really close show. 
Yeah, and he he had like what, 

1143
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,760
1015 lbs on you or so? 
I think it was even more than 

1144
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,400
that man. 
I think it was like closer to 

1145
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:43,920
20. 
I know he was like in the low 

1146
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,680
one 80s. 
I want to say he was like 183 or

1147
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,200
something on stage. 
He was, he was, he's a big guy 

1148
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,360
man, especially being on stage 
next to him. 

1149
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,160
I was like, holy shit, this guy,
this guy's huge. 

1150
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,920
So that is crazy. 
But I, I, I also competed 

1151
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,040
alongside of Bada. 
You know Bada, right? 

1152
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,840
He was a he. 
He did a the heavyweight class 

1153
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,720
at worlds. 
I, I've never met him in person,

1154
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:07,520
but yeah, he, he's a freaking 
beast. 

1155
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,120
There's so many really 
impressive natural bodybuilders,

1156
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:11,640
man. 
Like people that that don't have

1157
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,600
a clue what's possible 
naturally, like staying look, 

1158
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,560
they start looking at some of 
these competitors like it's hard

1159
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:20,760
not to just be blown away. 
Yeah, and a lot of people 

1160
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,400
wouldn't believe that some of 
these guts are natural. 

1161
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,920
But those are people who don't 
follow the space of bodybuilding

1162
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:27,680
at all, fitness or natural 
bodybuilding. 

1163
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,640
They don't know what can be 
achieved. 

1164
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,840
If you train hard and you follow
a diet for years and years and 

1165
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:38,000
years on end, you don't slack 
off, you'll be amazed with what 

1166
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,400
you can achieve. 
And I just wish more people 

1167
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,400
would realize that, you know, I 
mean, there's people that would 

1168
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,160
look at guys like you and me, 
people who don't even touch 

1169
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,920
weights and they would be like, 
oh, those guys are on steroids. 

1170
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,800
And that's just that's always 
been frustrating for me to like 

1171
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,280
I don't even bother trying to 
convince those people, but I 

1172
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,880
just wish more people were were 
aware of what they could achieve

1173
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,760
if they actually followed a a 
diet plan and worked out. 

1174
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,200
Totally, man. 
I mean, I got down to 151 last 

1175
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,080
year. 
If I was weighing in at 151 and 

1176
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,720
taking steroids then I'm doing 
something wrong. 

1177
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,440
Yeah, that's true, man. 
But no, 100% agree, man. 

1178
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:09,600
I'm super passionate about the 
sport. 

1179
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,080
It's awesome talking to other 
people like yourself that 

1180
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:13,920
compete in the sport. 
And I haven't told this to 

1181
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,320
anybody yet. 
Aaron, I think knows, but I'm 

1182
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,880
actually going to be hosting a 
show, a debut NBF show next 

1183
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:22,680
year. 
And if you're willing to travel 

1184
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,920
to Arkansas, man, I would love 
to have you at my show. 

1185
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,960
Yeah, what? 
What, what time frame? 

1186
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,360
Like what are we looking at? 
What calendar? 

1187
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,200
I'm trying to get it structured 
such that it would work out time

1188
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,120
frame with worlds. 
Like probably it's going to be 

1189
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:39,720
like late September if all goes 
well. 

1190
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,520
So that's pretty much as early 
as I can feasibly make it and it

1191
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,400
still be within, you know, a 
reasonable time frame for 

1192
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,800
competitors that want to do the 
world showing. 

1193
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,680
I'm still waiting to hear back 
from some venues right now, but 

1194
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,320
I would love to kind of have it 
structured somewhere in that 

1195
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,640
time frame so it would still be 
feasible for people wanting to 

1196
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,440
do Worlds. 
Well, I want to say Congrats on 

1197
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,240
taking a step forward with doing
that man. 

1198
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,800
I'm sure running a show this is,
it is Nazi and easy man. 

1199
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,480
There's a lot of PDQS that go 
into it. 

1200
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,080
So hopefully that works out for 
you man. 

1201
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:08,880
And if you do, let me know man, 
I'd love to do it. 

1202
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,800
Yeah, 100% man. 
I will definitely keep it you in

1203
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,920
the loop and if if the timing 
works out, I'd love to have you 

1204
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,320
love to have you there, man. 
Well, where are you located? 

1205
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,320
I'm in Arkansas. 
I'm in northwest Arkansas, so 

1206
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:21,560
not far from your Missouri show.
Oh. 

1207
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,760
OK, yeah, definitely, man. 
I mean, I'd be willing to travel

1208
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,080
for it. 
Beautiful. 

1209
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,280
I'm trying to get Aaron to come 
to. 

1210
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,160
I don't know if he's going to be
competing, but y'all can kind of

1211
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,600
battle it out there. 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's 

1212
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,120
competing next year. 
I'm, I'm pretty sure I've seen 

1213
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,680
him already mention it and we 
already talked, we already joked

1214
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,080
about, you know, like the 
rematch or whatever, just 

1215
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,000
messing around. 
But that'd be, it'd be cool to 

1216
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,640
compete even over there, you 
know, and hopefully there's a, a

1217
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,880
decent turn out because at the 
Washington state natural that 

1218
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,680
year, it was just him and I and 
there were a couple guys that 

1219
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,200
dropped out like two weeks or so
or like a week before the show. 

1220
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,080
Just days before the show. 
There was like a couple guys 

1221
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,880
that dropped out, which is it 
was kind of a bummer because I 

1222
00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:59,680
think I, I want to compete with 
the best. 

1223
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,240
I want to compete with good guys
on stage. 

1224
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,000
You know, I don't want to just 
show up and just be me and you 

1225
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,960
know, me and another guy, but. 
At least it was Aaron, you know,

1226
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,840
worthy competitor. 
He was really good bodybuilder. 

1227
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,840
Yeah, I feel like, you know, 
that's what you want, man. 

1228
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,240
Like you're, you got to compete 
against the best to be the best,

1229
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,320
you know, and, and it's, it's 
much more respectful if you're 

1230
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,600
doing that. 
And like, like Lionel, like, you

1231
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,040
know, he and I battled it out 
way back in 2015. 

1232
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,360
And I would love to convince him
to get back on stage because I'd

1233
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:25,680
love to be up there again with 
him. 

1234
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,560
So maybe I'll be able to twist 
his leg enough to do so. 

1235
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,480
Well, I mean, I even last year 
when a world man, when I saw 

1236
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,120
the, the lightweight class walk 
out on stage, like I was just 

1237
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,520
blown away, man. 
Like you guys completely covered

1238
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,000
the stage. 
I was like how many? 

1239
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,240
I don't even know how many guys 
there were there. 

1240
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,280
There must have been close to 15
guys on stage and I, I was just 

1241
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:46,560
blown away. 
I was like, holy shit. 

1242
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:48,640
I've never seen anything like 
that other than after 

1243
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,320
bodybuilding event. 
So it was really cool to watch 

1244
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,080
that. 
I hated it though, because there

1245
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,200
were so many competitors that 
they had to break us up into two

1246
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,000
groups and have like half in the
front, half in the back and then

1247
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:04,120
swap and like I was just in the 
back, you know, holding that, 

1248
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,480
you know, relaxed. 
Yeah, I remember. 

1249
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:07,560
I do remember not. 
Relax. 

1250
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,640
And I'm like, man, I'm, I'm 
fatigued back here, just doing 

1251
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,960
my relax, but I want to be 
upstage, you know, posing. 

1252
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,000
So that was almost like too many
competitors. 

1253
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,160
Yeah, that's true, man. 
I guess maybe they just have too

1254
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,800
many qualifying events for the 
show. 

1255
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,640
And I know that they trying to 
they maybe they want a bigger 

1256
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,720
turn out, but maybe that's 
something that they could they 

1257
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:30,880
got to think about, you know, 
for the following following 

1258
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,920
events for Worlds. 
I don't know, it'll, it'll be 

1259
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,200
good that whatever they wound up
doing, it was just awesome to be

1260
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,240
a part of. 
And I've got no doubt that 

1261
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:38,800
you're going to absolutely 
freaking kill it when you 

1262
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,280
compete at worlds. 
So I'm, I'm excited for you, 

1263
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,360
man. 
Oh, thank you, man. 

1264
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,000
I look forward to it, man. 
It's a very competitive show the

1265
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,480
next year. 
You know, I like to think about 

1266
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,400
watching that show was like, 
where would I have placed? 

1267
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,640
Where would I have placed? 
But I guess I I will never 

1268
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,800
really know so best I can do is 
just continue training and prep 

1269
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,040
for it for the next year and see
who shows up and how it turns 

1270
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:02,800
out and enjoy the experience 
man. 

1271
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:04,680
So everything else is out of my 
control. 

1272
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:06,320
All I can control this from what
I do. 

1273
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:07,920
That's the only way to do it, 
man. 

1274
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,240
You got to just be the best that
you can be and let the chips 

1275
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,920
fall where they may and and be 
at peace with that outcome. 

1276
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:14,800
As long as you know you're 
giving your best effort then 

1277
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:16,680
then you can be at peace with 
whatever happens. 

1278
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,520
Yeah, I had that talk with my 
coach a lot during my last prep.

1279
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,920
I was a little bit younger and I
was more focused on like, oh, 

1280
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,720
you know, how am I going to do 
at the show? 

1281
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,520
What place am I going to get? 
And I would bring it up to him 

1282
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,120
and he would tell me like, hey, 
man, look, at the end of the 

1283
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,680
day, you can't control what the 
judges like judges or everything

1284
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,680
is speculative. 
All the judges, the judges might

1285
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,360
think this guy is worthy of 
winning first place or you're 

1286
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,320
winning worthy of winning first 
place, but it doesn't matter. 

1287
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:45,640
You can't think about that. 
All you can control is what you 

1288
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,320
do, the work you put in, how you
show up, Everything else. 

1289
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,480
Don't worry about it. 
There are factors that you 

1290
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,200
cannot control. 
And it opened up my eyes a lot, 

1291
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,960
man, to competing and everything
else. 

1292
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:00,680
So I've, I've applied that 
mindset to, you know, any other 

1293
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,960
show that I've done since or 
that I'm gonna do, I'm always 

1294
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,200
gonna think about it like that. 
That's the way to do it, man. 

1295
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,200
I mean, that's why I think it's 
such such a mental sport, more 

1296
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,120
so than a physical sport. 
So obviously a physical sport, 

1297
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,960
but I mean, like what you gain 
from it mentally, 

1298
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,360
psychologically, emotionally, 
like that transcends the sport 

1299
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,800
itself and bleeds into every 
other area of your life. 

1300
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,600
So I feel like bodybuilding is a
great vehicle for just overall 

1301
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,800
self development. 
Yeah, and you said something 

1302
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,200
earlier, man, that that stood 
out to me. 

1303
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,280
You said the next time you do 
Worlds, you're going to win. 

1304
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,440
And I've always had that same 
the the the same like instinct 

1305
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,400
in me where if I compete, I want
to win. 

1306
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,600
I don't want to just show up to 
just to participate. 

1307
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,240
I want to win the show or I at 
least want to win my class. 

1308
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,680
Yeah. 
But I I have, yeah, I have that 

1309
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,600
same, that, that same like 
driving forcing me for the next 

1310
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,680
time I compete. 
So I like that. 

1311
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,040
Well, we, we gotta coordinate, 
man. 

1312
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,200
I mean, if you're competing next
year, I'm probably not gonna 

1313
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:58,280
compete again until 20. 
Who knows when, it'll be a 

1314
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,040
while. 
I'll be like 37 years old next 

1315
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,520
time I compete. 
But we gotta coordinate. 

1316
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,200
We'll have to compete at the 
same time. 

1317
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,200
That'd be. 
Fun. 

1318
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,000
Oh yeah, absolutely man. 
And natural bodybuilding, man, 

1319
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,880
it's it's only getting bigger. 
You just keep seeing these 

1320
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,280
freaks coming out of from like 
from all these different places.

1321
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,960
So it's only getting more and 
more competitive. 

1322
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:17,960
So you know, along the way, 
there's going to be a lot of 

1323
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,280
you're going to meet a lot of 
great people. 

1324
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,400
And I think it'd be great to 
compete with a little like 

1325
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,440
connecting with people like you 
and yourself, you know, like 

1326
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,680
that's like Dirk, you know, 
that's who I've met from other 

1327
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,200
countries that also compete. 
You know, we can all come 

1328
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:31,800
together and compete at a show, 
at an event like worlds. 

1329
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,960
And that's, that's always been 
something special to me about 

1330
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,720
natural bodybuilding. 
You know, it's like it's more 

1331
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,520
close knit as opposed to like 
the enhanced side, which is a 

1332
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:42,480
lot more broader. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1333
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,560
I think the camaraderie is key, 
man. 

1334
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,480
Like, like we're all trying to 
be the very best we can be. 

1335
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,480
And when we're on stage, we're 
trying to rip each other's heads

1336
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,600
off. 
But it's also met with this, 

1337
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,240
like, underlying mutual respect.
Like you, you want the other 

1338
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,320
person to bring their best 
package so that you have that 

1339
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:02,640
much more, you know, confidence 
in who you are and and pride and

1340
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,720
what you've accomplished if you 
best them. 

1341
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:06,720
But like, you want everybody to 
bring their A game. 

1342
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,320
You're not trying to undercut 
anybody. 

1343
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,320
You're trying to backstab 
anybody. 

1344
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,200
You're trying to like, enjoy the
journey with them and build each

1345
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,680
other up so that everybody is 
the best that they can be. 

1346
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,840
Yeah, and when I I've been to 
shows and I've been backstage 

1347
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,120
and I've seen guys who I know I 
could just tell by looking at 

1348
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,440
them that they did not put in 
the work. 

1349
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:24,640
I mean, granted, it might, it 
might have been like an amateur 

1350
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:26,960
show, but I just could never 
understand. 

1351
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,520
Like, how could you take the 
time to pick this event out, 

1352
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,160
start a preparation for it and 
not give it your all? 

1353
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,000
Like, why would you not want to 
show up at your best? 

1354
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,120
Why would you do that to 
yourself? 

1355
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:37,840
Like you're going to do this. 
You got to give it everything, 

1356
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,360
man. 
Even if you know that you have 

1357
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:40,600
you don't have the best 
genetics. 

1358
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,080
You don't have the best this, 
the best that you got to do 

1359
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:45,920
everything you can Leave no 
stone unturned. 

1360
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,400
That's the approach that I've 
had to every prep that I've done

1361
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,480
and it's only going to continue 
to stay like that for every prep

1362
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,720
that I do in the future. 
Amen to that man. 

1363
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,680
I mean, you just keep getting 
better like it's, it's it's a 

1364
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,440
journey for sure. 
It's not like a one and done 

1365
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,440
thing. 
It it never there is no finish 

1366
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,000
line. 
There is no off switch like it's

1367
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,520
always on. 
It's just the degree to which 

1368
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,000
you were on. 
But there's always a goal. 

1369
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,920
There's always something you're 
striving to maintenance is a 

1370
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,120
myth. 
Like you're you're getting 

1371
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:10,360
better with every day that 
passes. 

1372
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,120
Yeah, and and that's like, I 
guess that's the reason why we 

1373
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:16,800
choose to compete. 
I mean, we're bodybuilder at the

1374
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,360
end of the day. 
We love the last night, We love 

1375
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:20,520
the training. 
Everything that comes with being

1376
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,680
the bodybuilder and competing is
just like, I guess it's just you

1377
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,880
kind of set a goal within the 
goal, you know, so when you're 

1378
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,920
already doing this, like you're 
going to the gym, you're 

1379
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,880
training and now you set a goal,
OK, I'm going to do this. 

1380
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,560
This show, you kind of like you 
have that television, you get 

1381
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:34,120
locked in and that's exciting, 
man. 

1382
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,160
It's exciting to have a purpose 
and do the work towards a. 100%,

1383
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:38,960
ma'am. 
Well, I'm super excited for you.

1384
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,800
I'm excited to watch you grace 
the stage at World's next year 

1385
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,880
and I will definitely be making 
a point to come out there and 

1386
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,320
support. 
And let's definitely keep in 

1387
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:48,400
touch, man. 
I'd love to get you out of my 

1388
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,080
show. 
I'd love to get you back on the 

1389
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,160
podcast after the competition or
during the prep because I just 

1390
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:54,400
love talking about this stuff, 
man. 

1391
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,160
So I can't thank you enough for 
jumping on here today. 

1392
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:58,960
Oh, well, thank you, man. 
Thank you for thank you for 

1393
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:00,600
having me, man. 
I really appreciate it was a it 

1394
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,520
was very out of the blue, you 
know, but you know, here we are 

1395
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,720
having this conversation. 
I appreciate you taking the time

1396
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,920
to also reach out to me and have
this conversation. 

1397
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:10,680
Yeah, my pleasure, man, my 
pleasure. 

1398
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,040
Where do people go to find out 
more about you and follow along?

1399
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:15,880
Just just my Instagram really 
man. 

1400
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,640
Which is Eddie Double under 
score 1995. 

1401
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:21,640
Awesome. 
Well, I will link that to that 

1402
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:23,000
and make it easy for people to 
find you. 

1403
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,880
And I'll put one of your stage 
shots in the show notes so 

1404
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,760
people know that you're freaking
jacked and doing everything 

1405
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,800
right. 
And we'll keep in touch, man. 

1406
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,040
There's everything I can do for 
you, brother. 

1407
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,800
You just let me know, hey? 
I appreciate you rubber man, 

1408
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,040
good looking up. 
You bet. 

1409
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:38,000
See you, Eddie. 
See you bro.