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Hello, ladies and gents Roberts 
is Quito Savage.com, and today I

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have special guest Robb, Goodwin
on the line fellow, ketogenic 

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bodybuilder. 
And I've never talked about 

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before. 
So, I didn't know what to expect

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from this conversation. 
I just went into it, blindly 

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hoping for the best and I was 
blown away. 

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So he is more of the high 
protein, moderate fat, low carb 

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type of guy. 
I am more of the high fat 

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moderate protein, low carb, kind
of guy. 

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And when you, when you bring 
those two together, you, 

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oftentimes get this just massive
disparity between certain ways 

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of doing things and everybody at
each other's throats. 

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So I didn't know if that was 
going to happen or not, but 

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we're cut from the same, the 
same cloth when it comes to our 

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mindset and approach from a, 
from a mentality standpoint on 

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how to do bodybuilding, how to 
do intense anything in life. 

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And then we transcended that. 
And start talking about the 

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specific nuts and bolts and 
nuances, two different types of 

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macro manipulation metabolism, 
you know, calorie intake 

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hormone. 
Of going through a prep and 

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there's a lot that we have in 
common is if there's a 

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definitely some differences but 
we're able to sit down and speak

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civilly with respect towards one
another and we both came out of 

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conversation, Having learned a 
ton having appreciate each 

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other's viewpoints and having 
benefited from it. 

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And I've got no doubt in my mind
whatsoever, the any bit of LED, 

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listen to this podcast will 
experience the same. 

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So without further Ado, sit 
back, don't relax, just get your

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notepad, get your pan ready, 
sharpen your pencil, take some 

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notes because you're gonna come 
out of this. 

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Conversation, having taken some 
very tangible tangible steps 

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that you can do in your Fitness 
Nutrition Journey, hands down. 

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No questions. 
Asked thoroughly enjoyed the 

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conversation. 
I've got no doubt you will as 

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well. 
Without further Ado, enjoy the 

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conversation with Rob good one. 
And we are live Rob Gordon. 

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How are you? 
Ma'am, I'm doing great by 

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brother. 
How are you? 

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It's great to be here. 
Good to have you man. 

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Good heavy. 
So I'm curious. 

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I'm assuming Rob is short for 
Robert, right? 

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It is not see. 
My parents were hippies back in 

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the 60s and the only, my wife, 
and my mother called me Robbie. 

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That is actually my name. 
Yeah, Robbie is actually. 

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Okay. 
So did you do you introduce 

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yourself as Rob or Robbie? 
I introduced myself as Rob but 

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you can't tell anybody my name 
is Robbie, wait a minute. 

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It's already out there. 
There's never mind. 

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It's funny because I ask because
my name is is Robert. 

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I've always introduced myself as
Robert, but for whatever reason,

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everybody calls me, Rob, I never
introduced myself as Rob. 

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That's just, I guess what? 
Sticks, I don't know. 

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People don't like two syllables.
Well, now, you know, everybody 

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there, damn, uncle's going to 
like like pile on me and call me

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Robbie from now on. 
So thanks, man. 

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I appreciate pleasure to man. 
Place to do it. 

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Well, shoot, brother. 
I'm excited to have him because,

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you know, week before we started
recording you and I are both 

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From the similar cloth, in the 
whole ketogenic and bodybuilding

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realm. 
And, you know, I've talked about

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how I got to that space in my 
Hill training, but I want to get

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some back story on you, man. 
Like what led you to Quito 

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bodybuilding in the first place?
Well, I try to make this short, 

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which I always promised that, 
and it always goes off the 

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rails. 
But I promise, I'll try really, 

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really hard. 
So, I grew up in the 90s 

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bodybuilding culture, and I 
started training with a 

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competitive bodybuilder, 
literally from day one. 

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I was like a One, a year old guy
that didn't know where the hell 

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he was going in life, and I was 
working a shit, dead-end job. 

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And this little Jack, dude, 
named Melvin walks up to me and 

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he's like, you don't look like 
you belong here and I'm like, 

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well, you don't either and we 
hit it off immediately and like 

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five minutes into the 
conversation is like, you want 

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to go work out. 
I'm like, what the hell? 

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I hadn't really worked out much 
since high school. 

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So I dove into it and he 
proceeded to absolutely 

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annihilate. 
Me and destroy me and That went 

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on for days. 
And the thing about it was is I 

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absolutely fell in love with it 
right out of the gate. 

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I love the experiment of it, I 
love the challenge of it. 

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It gave me some sense of purpose
and some clarity. 

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Give me something to focus on, 
and at that time, because I'm 

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working with this competitive 
bodybuilder, who grew, who grew 

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up in that, 80's 90's, hardcore 
culture, and I said, so what do 

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I got to do? 
You know, to really put on 

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sighs, what do I got to do to 
get big to be good at this and 

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he said, well, you have to train
your ass. 

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Off until you're about to die 
and then you have to eat tons 

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and tons of food. 
You can't party anymore, then 

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you got to get lots and lots of 
sleep. 

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Expecting me to say, screw that.
I immediately said I'm in. 

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I'm in the sounds great. 
So you know at that point back 

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in the 90s, there was no 
internet. 

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So we literally you know, I was 
rabid about the whole thing I 

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do. 
Right in 150% and started 

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training my ass off and absorbed
everything, I possibly could on 

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the body building culture for Or
me bodybuilding is the sport 

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that I love. 
Like like many people love 

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football or baseball or 
whatever. 

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I love the sport of 
bodybuilding. 

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I always have. 
So I dove right in. 

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But for me, I'm also very 
analytical. 

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I like to know how things work 
and it became the experiment of 

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seeing how far I could push the 
limits of my physique. 

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So, the cool thing was and, you 
know, all about this, genetics 

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plays, a big role in this, and I
sort of stumbled onto by 

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accident the fat, I had really 
good genetics for this stuff and

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so I went, I went from this 170 
something pound guy. 

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And within a year, I was about 
215, 218 pounds, and then within

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two years, I was approaching 
like, 230 pounds and 4 in for 

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people who are wondering, yes, a
drug-free. 

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But I literally was killing 
myself in the gym. 

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I was eating and I'm not 
exaggerating or kidding. 

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When I tell you back then I was 
eating eight to ten. 

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Thousand calories a day and I've
got lots of stories to support 

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that but that's what I did. 
I did that for about a decade 

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and for me it was the 
experiment. 

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And and so I never really wanted
to be on stage fact that that 

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was not my thing standing in 
front of 2,000 people in my 

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underwear isn't what sort of 
flipped my trigger. 

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I wanted to be on the back end 
of I wanted to work with other 

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people. 
I wanted to continue to push the

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limits of my own physique and 
that's how I got into being a 

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trainer and a coach. 
And now I've been doing that for

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Approaching literally, I can't 
believe it 30 years I've been 

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doing it about 27 years now and 
so that's what got me into the 

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whole bodybuilding scene and it 
just it went on from there. 

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Now fast-forward, that after 
about a decade of living that 

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life, being a coach being a 
trainer working in some really 

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big Jim's, I decided to take a 
little time off from that, so I 

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started doing just a little bit 
more general fitness stuff, lost

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a little bit of weight leaned 
out, whatever. 

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But I noticed that I had a lot 
of joint distress. 

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A lot of inflammatory markers 
were high. 

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I felt like okay, I'm a fit guy,
I'm a muscular guy. 

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Why do I feel like this? 
And that was probably in the 

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early 2000s about 2005 2006 and 
that's what I'd really jumped on

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the ancestral Health bandwagon. 
And, you know, at that point, I 

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started to cut back on 
carbohydrate. 

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I looked at the inflammatory 
nature of foods, processed 

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foods, and all these things. 
And that's when I really started

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to cut the car, Herbs a lot of 
the seed oils and the factory 

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Dairy and all these things but I
want some more sort of like a 

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meat vegetable based diet. 
At that time, was probably a bit

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more paleo if you had to put a 
tag on it, even though I hate 

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tags and that we did really, 
really well. 

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And then in about 2010, is when 
I read these, very obscure 

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articles about ketogenic diets. 
And of course at that time, it 

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was about the therapeutic style,
ketogenic diets. 

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But also the odd thing was So, 
here's this former hardcore. 

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Bodybuilding guy learning about 
ketogenic diets. 

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From the endurance Community, I 
was reading about how Ultra 

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endurance Runners and cyclists 
were using ketogenic diets to 

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help them go longer and harder 
with less food and burning their

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own stored fat for fuel and 
burning ketones, and just really

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obsessed with that. 
It made so much sense to me. 

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So as I fast-forward again on 
denim, condensing a lot of stuff

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and do a short short 
explanation. 

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Patient here. 
But then in Hazard start 

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approaching 40 years old, I got 
the bug started training hard 

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again. 
I really wanted to get hard back

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in the gym and I decided, okay, 
bucket list time, I want to 

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compete. 
I want to get on stage, I didn't

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do it when I was in my 20s. 
Now, I want to do it so and I 

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thought to myself, can I bridge 
the gap? 

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Can I sort of combine, ketogenic
or ancestral. 

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Primal principles with nutrition
with this hardcore. 

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For bodybuilding culture because
you and I both know, you know, 

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back then I mean I'm older than 
you obviously. 

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But you know is chicken and rice
steak and potatoes, high carb, 

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high protein, low fat. 
But when you start looking at 

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the physiology of it, it just 
made immediate sense to me not 

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to everybody else. 
Because everybody thought I was 

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a damn whack job but it made 
immediate sense to me is why 

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can't I reduce the carbohydrate 
replace you know that energy 

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source with dietary fat be a 
little Kinder and gentler on my 

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I'm still getting the adequate 
nutrition in the Attic calories.

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I need keep the protein, very 
high to spare and add lean 

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tissue. 
And so I dove into that and just

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kept tweaking it and playing 
with it. 

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And that's where my ketogenic 
bodybuilding protocol came 

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together. 
And I literally went through a 

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prep in 2014 and exactly as I 
just described. 

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And what I did is I sprinkled 
carbohydrate, you know, as you 

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know, sort of TKD a little bit 
of carbohydrate around my 

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workouts and then I would 
incorporate some refeeds one day

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a week to sort of replenish and 
that worked phenomenally well. 

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So my first show I placed second
in both the Masters 40-plus and 

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the heavyweight open and then, 
you know, as time went on and 

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I've been competing every year 
since then. 

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I just sort of kept tweaking 
this and developing it. 

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And you know I've never looked 
back and no it's not. 

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We say listen, this isn't your 
Aunt Betty's key. 

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Do you know, this isn't swapping
keto cheesecake recipes and fat 

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bombs and putting butter in your
coffee. 

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This is, you know, the 
subtraction of carbohydrates, 

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systematically, and using 
carbohydrate as a tool around a 

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higher protein, moderate fat 
approach, and I look at that as 

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an energy source, it's still 
energy balance. 

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So I try to take in the optimal 
amount of fat, whether I'm going

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to gain phase or a cutting phase
to supply, working energy and, 

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you know, no nutrient dense 
foods to my lifestyle while 

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still keeping the protein High 
despair muscle. 

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So, again, I've sort of taking 
these two worlds, these two 

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things that don't seem to go 
together like two magnets then 

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I've sort of joined them 
together but the cool thing is 

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and we can talk about this is I 
started a ketogenic bodybuilding

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Facebook group, several years 
ago, I guess is about 3 years 

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ago, and I expected like nine 
people to Joy. 

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Literally, I thought, okay, 
there's probably like nine or 

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ten people out there doing this.
Maybe we can get these people 

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together and we can, you know, 
share stories and talk training 

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and talk about how you're doing 
this and I'm doing this and it 

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just absolutely exploded beyond 
my wildest imagination. 

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And now we're, you know, sitting
at 10,000 some odd members and 

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not only is it just 10,000 
members but as 10,000 very 

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close-knit, very tight, rabidly 
loyal just This, it's like a 

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family and it's been such a 
blessing to me and then. 

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So it's just, it's just exploded
for there. 

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And from there, that's kind of 
where we're at now. 

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And then, of course the coaching
inquiries come in and now I'm 

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sitting at over 100 online 
clients from all over the world 

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and I've got my own private Gem 
and you know, so things couldn't

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be better. 
Bringing these two unlikely 

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worlds, together to combine to 
something that has just been 

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very very enriching in my life 
and so many others. 

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I love it man. 
I feel like you know when you 

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take something that's not 
supposed to be and you make it 

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00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:28,100
be like that gets me excited 
because like the the Nuance to 

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something that General society 
says can't be done. 

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Like when people tell me I can't
do things. 

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I'm like, man that much more 
inclined to prove them wrong and

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that's what happened with me 
when I started training with the

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ketogenic that like everybody 
has working out with the gyms. 

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Like, you can't do it. 
You can't compete, you can't 

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build muscle. 
So I was bound and determined to

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prove them all wrong and that 
kind of led me down my rabbit 

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hole. 
So, I'm right there with you, 

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man, I feel like doing things 
that Our society says, is not 

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feasible, is often where all the
Innovation and progress comes 

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from. 
So I'm excited that I've been 

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here because I feel like with 
the fitness industry as a whole,

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you know, a lot of the fitness 
industry is built on the 

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traditional, you know, bro, 
dieting approach to food or like

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flexible dieting. 
If It Fits your Macros gained a 

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ton of popularity throughout all
the 2000's, the 90s you 

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referring to the 90s, you know, 
that that was like such a sweet 

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spots for, you know, competitive
bodybuilding not necessary from 

250
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a channel standpoint but just 
from like a bodybuilding and 

251
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fitness genre as a whole like 
when I when I first started 

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lifting probably in two thousand
seven or eight I guess all of 

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the videos and you know, content
that I was consuming around the 

254
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sport was all from the body 
butters of the 90s because like 

255
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their level of just discipline 
intensity and shape was in my 

256
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opinion. 
Unparalleled from anybody else 

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at that time, I'm assuming you 
probably on the same page. 

258
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I 100% agree and I sound like 
that. 

259
00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:53,000
I sound like that crotchety old 
man. 

260
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,300
Like, get off my lawn. 
Looks like Clint Eastwood in 

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00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:57,400
Gran Torino or something. 
When I talk about Nikes 

262
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,800
bodybuilding and you know, there
are some phenomenal competitors 

263
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,800
now. 
And but back in the 90s, the 

264
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,900
conditioning was so much better 
and I think it's because back 

265
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then the focus was literally on 
two main, you know, two main 

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things. 
It was super hard training. 

267
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You can never take your foot off
the gas. 

268
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:20,700
You know, I had these wonderful 
opportunities to trade in and 

269
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:24,200
work with and speak to some 
Legends in the industry. 

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00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,800
You know, I got to train with, 
you know, the legend, my 

271
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,500
commencer. 
I got to work with legendary 

272
00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:32,300
coach. 
John Perillo, I ran a very large

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00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:35,700
Gold's Gym down in Florida where
we had half a dozen magazine, 

274
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:39,700
cover ifbb pros and there that I
would hang out with and you 

275
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:43,200
know, train with and talk to 
every single day. 

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And again back then you didn't 
pull up a webpage. 

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You didn't pull up an internet. 
For them, traveled, you would go

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to the seminars, you would seek 
these people out. 

279
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,700
I would be that crazy kid 
knocking on some doors saying, 

280
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,400
you know, hey, I'm from two 
states away and I want to meet 

281
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,300
you, I want to talk to you, can 
you give me ten minutes of your 

282
00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:05,400
time? 
And that's how we didn't back 

283
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,300
then. 
And you go to the seminars and 

284
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:09,200
you talk to these people and 
back. 

285
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,800
Then, the pros didn't have 
Instagram Pages. 

286
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,100
You know, they had the magazines
that you get once a month or you

287
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:19,600
would go listen, Them talk at a 
seminar and that was your only 

288
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,700
real connection with those 
people that back then. 

289
00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:26,000
So you tried to absorb every 
moment that you could to sort of

290
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,600
peace, all this stuff together 
and then you apply it to your 

291
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,600
own training and your own 
physique and your own lifestyle.

292
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,200
So I think there was so much 
more incredible insane work, 

293
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,600
ethic back then, and not to say 
that it's not happening. 

294
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,900
Now, it definitely is because 
that's another thing is, I think

295
00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:43,400
bodybuilding is making a 
comeback. 

296
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,800
I don't know if you see that or 
not and where you're at, but I 

297
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,500
Talk to judges, I talk to 
promoters and they're like, you 

298
00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:54,300
know, entry fees have doubled. 
The excitement is back. 

299
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:57,900
It hasn't been like this since, 
you know, Ronnie Coleman was mr.

300
00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:00,100
Olympia. 
And I think it truly is making a

301
00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:03,800
comeback and I see it with my 
own clientele, the probably the 

302
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,700
most proud moment for me or the 
most proud part of this. 

303
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:13,000
For me, is of all, with all my 
clients, I'm not training, ifbb 

304
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,900
Pros, I'm training, soccer moms,
I'm training businessmen. 

305
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,300
Women and just if I think aback 
at the last five or six people, 

306
00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:24,600
that I've prepped to go into a 
physique competition. 

307
00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:28,200
If I think the last five or six 
right up the top of my head, 

308
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,000
four of those people are women 
over 50, mmm. 

309
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:34,200
And who have never competed in 
their lives. 

310
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,600
Who said, okay, this is a bucket
list thing for me. 

311
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,000
You've convinced me that I can 
do this. 

312
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,600
And that's, that's part of our 
job. 

313
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,500
You and I both know this were 
motivators but we're 

314
00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:46,500
influencers. 
We let people know that if 

315
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:51,500
you're willing to keep died in 
this gym and you're willing to 

316
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:55,900
crush your Macros and you're 
willing to do exactly what's 

317
00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:59,000
required of you. 
Then you two can do Hercule and 

318
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000
things and you can do things 
that you never thought were 

319
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,000
imaginable than if you're very 
upfront. 

320
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,300
And you're very forward with 
people. 

321
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:08,500
And you are willing to walk 
through fire with these people. 

322
00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:12,300
And you do then they understand 
that, hey, you know, I trust 

323
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:17,200
this guy, he's been there, you 
know, and my clients and The 

324
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,000
women, I mean, just will blow 
your mind. 

325
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,500
These women will eat freaking 
lightning and crap thunder all 

326
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,400
day. 
They will push the point that 

327
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,600
just will blow your mind. 
So, I love this little universe 

328
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,400
that I'm living in working with 
these hardcore people. 

329
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,800
Again, it's, you know, if you're
if you don't train and you 

330
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,700
sitting in a cubicle all day, 
you want to lose some weight. 

331
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:41,800
Hell yeah, I would love to work 
with you and help you any way I 

332
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,100
can. 
But I'm not gonna lie to you, 

333
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,900
you know, my join with it. 
What I do is working with these 

334
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,700
These people who want to walk 
into that, you know, hot gym 

335
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:56,600
every day with Rusty, barbells 
and slap the iron on and put 

336
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,300
their bodies through, whatever 
it takes and to be compliant 

337
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:02,400
with their nutrition, no matter 
what it takes. 

338
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:06,400
And when I tell them, listen, 
you have to track this, you have

339
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,200
to, you can't miss workouts, you
have to sleep more, you have to 

340
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,900
recover, you can't lose it up on
the weekends. 

341
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,500
You know, I tell my client. 
So you got to have a half a 

342
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,100
bottle of wine every night too. 
With your life. 

343
00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:20,700
Now you don't need a trainer. 
You didn't 12-step program, 

344
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:21,900
okay? 
You don't need me. 

345
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:24,700
So if you're but if you're 
willing to walk through fire, 

346
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,500
I'm willing to walk through it 
with you and these people just 

347
00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:30,100
get they change their whole 
demeanor changes. 

348
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:34,400
And those are the kind of people
that I want to be lockstep with 

349
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,100
these are the people that I want
to join with and help them 

350
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,700
achieve these incredible goals. 
I mean, that's the most 

351
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:42,600
rewarding thing on in the world.
100%, man. 

352
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,500
I mean, I've got, you know, 
clients across the whole 

353
00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:48,600
spectrum and And, you know, I 
love them all. 

354
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,100
I do right by them all, but 
there's definitely a special 

355
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:54,900
place in my heart for all the 
competitors because, like, when 

356
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,500
you, when you go through a prep,
especially one, that is a very 

357
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:01,200
lengthy prep of, like, you know,
four to six months, which is 

358
00:19:01,208 --> 00:19:02,900
what I typically recommend, 
personally. 

359
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:07,600
It's like that you could tell 
when they're in it all the way 

360
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,700
and regardless of what they're 
placing is, but if they, you 

361
00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:13,400
know, never stray away from 
hitting the numbers. 

362
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,900
Never stray away from the 
intense training session, and 

363
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:19,400
just push it to the Limit every 
single damn day for six months 

364
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,000
straight. 
Like they've earned this whole 

365
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000
nother dimension of respect for 
me because I've been there and 

366
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,200
it's cool to see other people go
there as well. 

367
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,900
And then tap into this potential
that they've never even realized

368
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:34,500
they had from within themselves.
I mean, like that is just 

369
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,800
unparalleled and they're just, 
we're living this day and age 

370
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,100
where it's so easy to be soft. 
So you have to have the 

371
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:43,700
self-imposed hardship, placed 
upon you in a competition prep, 

372
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,800
that you go all in on is in my 
opinion, one of the best. 

373
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:48,900
Best ways. 
I've personally experienced how 

374
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:51,700
to bring on that self-imposed 
hardship and just figure out who

375
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,200
you really are. 
Then you know that that's 

376
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,100
exactly right. 
You know exactly what I'm 

377
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:58,300
talking about as funny as a 
funny story. 

378
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:02,000
I was chatting with a couple of 
people and I just mentioned that

379
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,900
I was going to be on your 
podcast today. 

380
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:06,600
They're like oh I know that guy 
and the first thing that comes 

381
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,400
out of the month, he's competed.
It's like Instant Respect. 

382
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:12,700
Okay, I love that guy. 
He's competed. 

383
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,800
I've seen the pictures. 
The guy walks the walk. 

384
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,000
He talks the talk I'm like, 
yeah, this is going to be great.

385
00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:23,200
So it's instant, you know, 
credibility, it's Instant 

386
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,300
Respect because these people are
walking through the process and 

387
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:30,900
when they know somebody, who's 
who's reached the top of the 

388
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:35,400
mountain, the respect is never 
going to go away and, you know, 

389
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,100
it's a it's a constant back 
alley knife fight. 

390
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:40,400
You know how hard it is? 
There's no off time. 

391
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,800
Yeah, you're not playing in the 
local Rec basketball league 

392
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:48,700
where you got to show up on 
Tuesday nights, it It is 24/7 

393
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
every single day, every waking 
moment, and it's not so much the

394
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,700
things that you do. 
It's not necessarily just doing 

395
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,100
the workouts to a very high 
intense level. 

396
00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:01,500
I'm a big high intensity guy. 
My clients know this, everybody 

397
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:05,800
around me knows this if you're 
not in a on it, on the workout 

398
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,400
floor in a puddle quivering 
questioning Your Existence. 

399
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:11,800
You didn't go hard enough in my 
opinion and that's just the way 

400
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:14,400
I trained myself. 
And that's what I expect for my 

401
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,000
clients and I expect my clients 
to be Set with their macros to 

402
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,500
be consistent with their 
nutrition to be consistent with 

403
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:23,200
their sleep. 
Now, we talked about it's as 

404
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,500
much as what you don't do, is, 
was you what you do do? 

405
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:30,400
So, it's refraining from the 
party lifestyle refraining from 

406
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,000
the, the binge eating, and, and 
calling a refeed, a refeed. 

407
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,900
When it's really just a cheap 
bitch and you wind up, you know,

408
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:40,500
sitting in an alley somewhere 
with powdered sugar, all over 

409
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:42,700
your shirt, cause you just 
knocked out three dozen donuts. 

410
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:44,200
That's not what we're talking 
about here. 

411
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:47,500
So it's a constant back alley, 
knife fight, And I tell my 

412
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:50,100
clients, you need to be the 
freak in the room, wherever 

413
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:52,900
you're at. 
And if, you know, my audience, 

414
00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:55,100
who's listening to this, or 
they're all nodding their head, 

415
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,700
no matter what room you're in, 
wherever you're sitting, you got

416
00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:59,800
to be the freak in the room. 
That doesn't mean just 

417
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,900
aesthetically that just means 
attitude, that just means your 

418
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:08,300
mental perception of what it 
takes every day to be the 

419
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:10,300
absolute best that you can 
possibly be. 

420
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,300
And once you understand that and
you're willing to be the freak 

421
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:17,400
in the room and you understand 
that what we're embarking God is

422
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,200
we're not just talking about 
getting in shape. 

423
00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:22,900
I you know, our our tagline for 
ketogenic bodybuilding is 

424
00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:25,900
Extreme physique. 
It's Tito for the extreme 

425
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:29,700
physique culture make no 
mistake, we're a niche. 

426
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:34,000
This is for people who want to 
take this to a whole nother 

427
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,700
level and be something, they 
never thought they could be and 

428
00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:42,400
Crush through those boundaries 
and arrive somewhere, they never

429
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,100
thought they could be. 
And once you arrive, you know, 

430
00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:48,500
this is well as I do, you never 
Ever question, the pain that you

431
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:52,100
went through to get there, all 
that is behind you, it's only 

432
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:54,300
what you've become and where 
you've been. 

433
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,300
And you know, when you've stood 
on that stage under those hot 

434
00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:01,500
lights you know in your 
underwear in front of a couple 

435
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,400
thousand people and your reach 
that Pinnacle. 

436
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,700
It's a it makes you part of a 
very unique club and I'm not 

437
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:12,200
saying you have to compete but I
tell all my clients it could be 

438
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,900
a competition or it could be a 
photo shoot or it could be six 

439
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:18,500
months from now you're going. 
You go to your sister's wedding 

440
00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:20,900
and you want to be the most 
smoking-hot person there. 

441
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:24,700
Whatever the case may be, the 
process is still the same and 

442
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:28,300
we're going to get you there. 
Yeah, totally green, man, I'd be

443
00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:29,300
curious to get your take on 
this. 

444
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,800
So I feel like there's like with
most things in life. 

445
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,900
There's this dichotomy that 
exists between, you know, going 

446
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:38,600
far enough going too far and not
getting anywhere close. 

447
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,100
And I feel like, you know, with 
all the Innovations and 

448
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:44,200
scientific advancements that 
have been made in recent years, 

449
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,700
especially around, you know, 
diet. 

450
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,900
And exercise and the fitness 
Community as a whole. 

451
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:53,500
There's like this this weird, 
you know, plethora of 

452
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:56,800
information out there about how 
like the bio hacking Community 

453
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,900
which I'm a huge fan of and a 
big part of but it's like 

454
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:02,300
there's so many different 
there's so much attention placed

455
00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:07,500
on, you know, the minimum viable
dose to achieve a certain you 

456
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,600
know, outcome or goal and that 
hasn't turned had this like 

457
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,300
backfiring from a psychological 
perspective because it's like 

458
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:17,900
people don't want to go to the 
extreme because They assume that

459
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:21,000
there's probably a smarter way 
to get there without near as 

460
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,500
much heartache and physical 
ailment and I think you know 

461
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:27,200
that that can be good to a 
certain degree for sure. 

462
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:30,600
But I think with with something 
as as niche as like 

463
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,900
bodybuilding, for instance like 
you're probably going to be 

464
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:36,300
doing yourself more harm than 
good by not willingly going 

465
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:37,200
there. 
Anyways. 

466
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,900
I mean if you look at anything 
through our culture through our 

467
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:49,400
history, reaching Victory, 
reaching the Pinnacle achieving,

468
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,600
the goal has never come from 
doing the minimum to get there. 

469
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,800
I mean, you know, all through 
history, it's about conflict but

470
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,000
that doesn't have to mean 
hand-to-hand conflict. 

471
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,600
That just means conflict with 
yourself conflict within your 

472
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,000
own head conflict with fighting 
your own. 

473
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,500
Own personal demons, nothing. 
Positive in terms of the 

474
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:16,300
ultimate Victory comes from 
settling or finding that least 

475
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:19,600
amount of resistance. 
It's always, you know, you got 

476
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:25,200
to crush the, how can you 
possibly not succeed if you're 

477
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,900
giving it everything, you have, 
hmm. 

478
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,100
You don't want to leave anything
behind you. 

479
00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:31,500
You don't want to leave anything
to chance. 

480
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:33,100
You never want to question 
yourself. 

481
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:36,200
I mean, this this, you know, 
this it when you go through a 

482
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,700
prep and you That peak week. 
I always tell people when you 

483
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:42,000
get to peak week and for 
listeners who don't understand 

484
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,400
what that is, that's that final 
week before your competition, if

485
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,100
you got to come up with a whole 
bunch of voodoo and bullshit, 

486
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:51,300
good. 
Guess what? 

487
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:52,800
You didn't come and shape. 
Yep. 

488
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,100
You should be going for Peak we 
call, you should have to do 

489
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:58,800
during peak week, is going to 
carb up a little bit 

490
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,000
systematically. 
And I know how to do it. 

491
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,600
I might cut a little bit of 
water, I get to such a couple 

492
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,100
little tweaks. 
There's that little carb up 

493
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:10,500
before the pump. 
Up up, if you come in shape, if 

494
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:13,300
you're there, if you've done the
work, if you've left nothing to 

495
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:17,000
chance, if you've taken yourself
to the farthest end of your 

496
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,600
absolute ability, then you're 
going to sit there with your 

497
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,700
feet up on the coffee table 
during peak week saying, bring 

498
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:23,900
it bitches. 
I'm ready. 

499
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,800
I'm ready to own the stage and 
walk up there and claim what's 

500
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,100
mine? 
You never want to sit there and 

501
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,700
question could I have done more?
No I mean when you're talking 

502
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:35,300
about all this biohacking 
bullshit that's just saying 

503
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,900
what's the least path of 
resistance that I can take to? 

504
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,500
Cheap, the skull screw that. 
What's the most? 

505
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,400
I can put into this, to make 
sure that I've left nothing to 

506
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,300
chance. 
That I'm going to walk up there 

507
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:48,500
and claim and own this. 
And that doesn't mean a 

508
00:26:48,508 --> 00:26:52,000
first-place trophy, that just 
means knowing that I gave this 

509
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,300
everything, I could possibly get
it. 

510
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,900
And that once again just to 
reiterate, that doesn't mean 

511
00:26:56,900 --> 00:26:59,800
necessarily stepping on stage 
that can do is just me. 

512
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,300
Pushing yourself to be the 
absolute best, that you can 

513
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:05,100
possibly be, that could be 
running a marathon, they could 

514
00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:08,100
be doing a triathlon, or it 
could be something like You 

515
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:11,500
know, martial arts Jiu-Jitsu, 
whatever the case may be, or 

516
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:15,200
just being your absolute best, 
on this certain day, in July, to

517
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,900
prove that you had the ability 
to push yourself further than 

518
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:20,900
everyone else. 
And you left nothing to chance. 

519
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:27,400
And when you do that, the, the 
calmness the, the level of Zen 

520
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,600
that washes, over your body, 
when you know that this is, you 

521
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,900
put everything into it is 
unparalleled. 

522
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,600
Wouldn't you agree with that 
100% verbatim at night? 

523
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,400
May I couldn't have said it 
better myself like We time I've 

524
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,200
gone into a peak week, like I've
been just, I've been the most 

525
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,300
calm I've ever been in the life 
during a peak week because I 

526
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:47,900
know there's been no Stern Stone
left unturned. 

527
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:50,700
There's been no shortcut taken 
whatsoever. 

528
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:54,300
So, regardless of the placing, 
you know, I'm gonna go in with 

529
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:57,100
absolute utmost confidence 
because as you can attest to 

530
00:27:57,100 --> 00:28:01,300
like body building is a, it's 
not a sport in which, you know, 

531
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,700
the end-all-be-all success. 
You know, measure is how you 

532
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:06,400
place against other people. 
It's how you place against 

533
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,200
yourself. 
I mean if You're doing 

534
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,000
everything right and you're 
doing it to the Intensive. 

535
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,500
Should you're likely going to 
place ahead of most of the 

536
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:14,600
competitors or take that first 
place trophy? 

537
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:19,100
But like for me, I go in trying 
to beat myself from what I was 

538
00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:21,800
the previous time I stepped on 
stage and every time I've gotten

539
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,300
better, and every time I've 
known that I haven't left, 

540
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:27,400
anything left to chance, and 
that alone has given me the 

541
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,100
confidence, and just the 
serenity, we're like peak week. 

542
00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:32,500
I'm just coasting through and 
enjoying the moment. 

543
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:36,000
Actually, I couldn't have said 
that better myself. 

544
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,700
I mean, that's, that's 
absolutely perfect. 

545
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:44,300
I mean, I think a case in point 
in 2019, before all the covid 

546
00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:48,200
bullshit happened. 
I did an NPC National qualifier 

547
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,500
and as we just discussed, I 
don't think. 

548
00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:54,600
Well, we always say, we could 
have done something a little 

549
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,500
harder, but I'm not sure I 
really could have. 

550
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:59,400
I think, I really pushed my 
genetic potential to the 

551
00:28:59,408 --> 00:29:03,100
farthest I've ever in my life, 
and I was fortunate enough. 

552
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:08,500
To win the 50, plus Masters, but
what really blew me away as I 

553
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:11,500
won the open heavyweight, and 
this is all ages. 

554
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,600
And that was probably the most 
gratifying experience of my 

555
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,600
life. 
But in 2018, I did another show.

556
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,500
Another big NPC qualifier 
National qualifier. 

557
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:28,100
And I placed second in the same 
two divisions and I pushed 

558
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:32,100
myself to the Limit, I dieted my
ass off, I suffered, I did 

559
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:33,400
everything I could. 
But you know what? 

560
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:37,500
What the guy next to me was just
freaking better and sometimes 

561
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:41,600
that just happens. 
If you feel like that, you took 

562
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,200
your foot off the gas at any 
point during that prepped, 

563
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:49,000
whether it be offseason, gain, 
phase, cut phase, whatever. 

564
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:51,100
Then yeah you have to you have 
to understand. 

565
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:53,400
I could have went harder own 
that shit and do better the next

566
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,200
time. 
But as you just said it's so 

567
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,100
much a competition within 
yourself and if you know that 

568
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:01,500
you put everything on the table 
and you gave it everything you 

569
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:03,400
had, you know, I walked away 
with those. 

570
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,100
Places proud happy. 
And I walked up to the guy that 

571
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:11,800
beat my ass and I said, dude you
are amazing. 

572
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:17,700
God bless you, you know and I'll
try harder next time and that's 

573
00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:20,600
the beauty of it to man. 
Like like with me you know in 

574
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,700
the natural federation's that 
compete in a lot of the 

575
00:30:22,708 --> 00:30:25,100
competitors. 
Like we go to the same show like

576
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:29,000
we all know each other and like,
before before the virus 

577
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,400
canceled, the show that I had 
planned on doing in 2020. 

578
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,200
We were all going To compete at 
the same event and I had all of 

579
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,800
them on the podcast. 
We're all just kind of like 

580
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,400
talking shit to one another but 
like in a very friendly manner, 

581
00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:43,200
but that's good because it 
pushes them to be better. 

582
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,400
Pushes me to be better and it's 
like this friendly camaraderie 

583
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,600
that you would see in the 
bodybuilding you know, of the 

584
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,200
90s and prior to that because 
it's like everybody wants that 

585
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,600
competitors to be the very best 
that they can be because it 

586
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,900
inherently pushes you to be the 
best that you can be. 

587
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,900
Absolutely 100%. 
Totally agree. 

588
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,000
So you know competition is a 
great thing. 

589
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,700
I love it and I will probably 
continue to do it as long as 

590
00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:13,800
God, blesses me to be able to 
train hard and do the things I 

591
00:31:13,808 --> 00:31:17,000
need to do and still take care 
of my family and be the husband 

592
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,400
that I need to be in the father 
that I need to be. 

593
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,800
And, hey, I'm a grandfather. 
So that's pretty cool. 

594
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,200
So, you know, I can put my 
grandson on my lap and say, hey,

595
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,700
look what you're crazy. 
Freaking Papa. 

596
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:29,700
Did you know that? 
That'll Own is worth the 

597
00:31:29,708 --> 00:31:33,000
suffering to me. 
Yeah, to lie to leave that 

598
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,100
lesson and that Legacy to those 
underneath you and your 

599
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:37,500
children, and your 
grandchildren. 

600
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,500
And I mean, you know, it's a 
beautiful thing. 

601
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:44,200
But again, it's not only just 
about, you know, competition, 

602
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:48,900
you know, competition can just 
be life in general and, you 

603
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,900
know, life kicks our asses. 
And if you ever question that 

604
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:58,300
just look back at 2020, I mean, 
what better way to lift the fog.

605
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:04,400
Ugh of such a tumultuous and 
crazy year than to focus on, you

606
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,200
know, projecting the best human 
being that you can possibly be 

607
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,500
and making that shift in making 
that change. 

608
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:13,600
And, you know, it's all right in
front of you, you just got to 

609
00:32:13,608 --> 00:32:15,800
take the steps. 
And the cool thing is as we both

610
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,700
discussed, once you go through 
that work and you go through 

611
00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:20,600
that effort, you will never 
regret. 

612
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,700
You will never regret the path 
that got you there. 

613
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:26,000
No matter how painful, no matter
what you'll never look back and 

614
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,100
regret that sort of like 
childbirth. 

615
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:31,200
Looks like my wife's like, yeah,
I had fun. 

616
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,900
I pushed for kids out. 
It sucks, it hurt. 

617
00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:37,000
But I would never in my wildest 
dreams of a regret that because 

618
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,000
I have four beautiful children. 
It's the same thing when you 

619
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,900
push yourself to that degree of 
pain, you know? 

620
00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:46,900
And again, life life in our 
human existence has always been 

621
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:48,700
about to some degree of 
suffering. 

622
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:53,700
And it's only in our recent 
culture that we've all tried to 

623
00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:56,200
find the leaf least path of 
resistance. 

624
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,100
And I think we all see the 
evidence S of that. 

625
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:02,400
And it's taking us in a negative
path and I think the 

626
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,300
consequences of that have been 
dire. 

627
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:08,700
Yeah, I completely agree, man. 
I mean it's I don't know, like I

628
00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:12,800
like being able to exercise my 
stomach muscles, I like being 

629
00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:15,600
you know having a hardships and 
obstacles in front of because it

630
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,900
inherently makes me a better 
person and I feel like anybody 

631
00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:21,400
that has that mentality is going
to be better for it even if they

632
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,000
have to go through a period of 
discomfort. 

633
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,900
I mean that's that's what life 
is. 

634
00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:27,500
So you just got to Cowboy up and
go for it. 

635
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,700
Exactly. 
I think we are speaking the same

636
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:32,700
language on all fronts from 
everything. 

637
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:34,400
I can tell this far. 
So I really want to kind of get 

638
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,800
into some specific nuts and 
bolts to like dining protocols 

639
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,500
and strategies and macro 
manipulations because I'm 

640
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:45,200
curious to see how you 
personally manipulate macros and

641
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,300
in kind of go about it with a 
ketogenic approach because 

642
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:50,200
there's so much there's so much 
Nuance to kill genic 

643
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,000
bodybuilding. 
I've got a system that I feel 

644
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,600
like I have not perfected 
because we can always get better

645
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,100
but I feel very confident. 
I feel like You and I probably 

646
00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:02,300
have a few differences of 
opinion on certain specific 

647
00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:04,200
strategy. 
So I kind of want to pull the 

648
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,300
curtain back and see what see 
what you working with here, man.

649
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:13,100
So that said, I'd love to hear 
your thoughts on the whole, you 

650
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:16,500
know, Cal versus hormone debate.
Do calories really count. 

651
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:20,199
Okay? 
Number one, let me be very, very

652
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,100
clear about this and I fight 
this in my ketogenic, 

653
00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:28,199
bodybuilding Facebook group, I 
fight this and all matters of so

654
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,400
So media, you know, that can be 
everybody's a badass behind 

655
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,900
their computer. 
If what you're doing is working 

656
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:36,699
for you. 
God bless you. 

657
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:38,900
Let me just say that right out 
of the gate. 

658
00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:43,300
I don't want to get the thing 
about it is, is I follow, and 

659
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:47,500
this is no secret. 
I'm a high-protein, moderate 

660
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:50,600
fat, low carb guy. 
I am that works. 

661
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,300
By far the best. 
For me, it is worked 

662
00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:57,400
spectacularly. 
Well, with my clientele and many

663
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,000
in my group, Would attest to 
that. 

664
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,700
However, if you're more of a 
high fat moderate protein, low 

665
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:09,500
carb diet, God bless you, if 
it's working for you, then by 

666
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:12,300
all means, continue. 
I'm not a zealot. 

667
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,600
I'm not some cult leader, I'm 
not any of these people. 

668
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,500
I follow this simple rule when 
it comes to human beings. 

669
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:25,500
I don't care who you are. 
What you do, what race you are. 

670
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,300
What gender you are? 
Everybody is Beautiful to me. 

671
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:33,900
I judge everyone under one 
criteria and one criteria only, 

672
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,200
and that's whether or whether or
not you're an asshole. 

673
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,900
If you are not, then we can be 
friends. 

674
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:43,200
I don't care if you put two 
sticks of butter and your coffee

675
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:47,500
and drink, you know, do shots of
melted bacon, grease all 

676
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:51,400
throughout the afternoon, if 
it's working for you, fantastic.

677
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:56,000
But if I happen to come forward 
and say, I tried that approach 

678
00:35:56,100 --> 00:36:00,400
and for me, combining And the 
old school, there's a couple of 

679
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,600
things that I have adopted from 
my old school bodybuilding 

680
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,700
approach that I have brought 
into the mix because I can tell 

681
00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:12,600
you without question, they have 
worked the best for me in 

682
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,400
building my physique as well as 
the clients that I've tested but

683
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,200
you can talk about science, all 
you want. 

684
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,000
But you and I both know that 
when you work with clientele day

685
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,400
in and day out, you get to know 
these people on a very personal 

686
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,500
level. 
It is, the ultimate daily, 

687
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:29,300
controlled experiment. 
It is a Research study in and of

688
00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:33,400
itself kind of percent. 
So when I work with these 

689
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,800
people, like I will say, you 
know many people have come to me

690
00:36:36,808 --> 00:36:39,000
and said I started doing a 
ketogenic diet. 

691
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,000
I lost 25 pounds right out of 
the gate, I'm just throwing out 

692
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,200
some examples and now everything
has stalled. 

693
00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:50,200
I in all nearly every case, tell
this person after running some 

694
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,400
numbers, let's bring your 
protein up a bit. 

695
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:56,200
Let's back off on the fat a 
little bit. 

696
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:59,500
We're going to keep your carbs 
very low and that seems to 

697
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:03,800
always break the stall. 
My reasoning is, is I do believe

698
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,400
that it is about energy balance.
First hormones, do definitely 

699
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,800
play a role, but I do believe in
the law of thermodynamics. 

700
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:15,900
Nothing has made me change that 
yet. 

701
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,600
Yet. 
So I do believe that you do like

702
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,800
if you're in a game face to put 
on bustle, you go into a caloric

703
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,900
Surplus and then when it's time 
to cut, you go into a caloric 

704
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:28,000
deficit. 
I also firmly believe and this 

705
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,600
is where a lot of people. 
This is where it starts to 

706
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,300
become a back alley knife fight 
because the keto zealots come 

707
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:38,500
after me with their claws out. 
When I say, I am not a big 

708
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:41,800
intermittent faster. 
I'm not a big person on fasting 

709
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,800
if that works for you. 
I think that's phenomenal. 

710
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,900
If fasting Helps you achieve and
maintain a caloric deficit to 

711
00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:51,000
lose weight. 
I say, go for it. 

712
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,200
Do that all day long. 
God bless you. 

713
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:59,600
But for me, trying to maintain 
as much lean mass as humanly 

714
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,900
possible, when we're talking 
about protein synthesis and 

715
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:07,400
nitrogen balance, I have found 
that I still find the old school

716
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,900
approach that meeting frequently
throughout the day. 

717
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:13,100
I eat every two to four hours, 
making sure that it's protein 

718
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:17,400
heavy moderate fat, low carb has
worked Phenomenal for me but 

719
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,500
I've also found out is it has 
worked phenomenal for my 

720
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:23,100
clients. 
The other thing I've noticed is 

721
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:26,400
and you will understand this 
phrasing where others may not. 

722
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,400
When I am ingesting, some 
protein and nutrients every two,

723
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,200
to four hours. 
I feel and I maintain and muscle

724
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,900
fullness a muscle pump, 
everything seems to click better

725
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:43,600
with me, but again, this is 
about enhancing the extreme 

726
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,900
physique. 
This is not about cubic. 

727
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:48,900
Sitting Sally trying to lose 20 
pounds. 

728
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,700
This is about the person who's 
trying to maximize lean tissue 

729
00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:57,500
growth to the ultimate degree. 
Maintain it I'm 52 years old 

730
00:38:57,500 --> 00:38:59,600
from. 
So for me now it's really about 

731
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,900
maintaining and trying not to 
lose anything that I've worked 

732
00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:07,600
so hard to put on and I think 
the science supports the fact 

733
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,000
that if you're trying to 
maintain lean tissue masks, the 

734
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,000
two things that would support 
that support that over anything.

735
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:15,900
Is keeping protein high and 
training. 

736
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,800
A hard in the gym because 
obviously you're going to lose 

737
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,300
some lean mass in a cut. 
That's inevitable. 

738
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,600
So you try to you know keep 
those losses as minimal as 

739
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,100
possible so my ketogenic 
bodybuilding hybrid. 

740
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,400
Okay, kids remember I use the 
word hybrid, I'm joining two 

741
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,300
things together to create, 
something to fit a specific 

742
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:41,400
goal. 
So, I do take in higher protein 

743
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:46,700
and for me, and my clients 
that's anywhere from point. 82, 

744
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:50,900
literally 1.5 grams of protein 
per pound of body weight if 

745
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:53,900
you're not morbidly obese. 
If somebody who's carrying a lot

746
00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:57,500
of body fat than will convert 
that into a lean body mass, but 

747
00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:02,300
that's another conversation and 
then we use fat according to 

748
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:05,000
your energy output. 
So essentially we're reducing 

749
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,500
the carbohydrate. 
We're bringing good dietary fat 

750
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:14,200
into support or modal function, 
nutrient density and to supply 

751
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,900
energy to working muscles. 
So my Approach isn't, you know, 

752
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,900
everybody kind of freaks out 
when they come into my group and

753
00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:24,600
they're like, we have been doing
the, I've been doing keto. 

754
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,600
It's 75 percent protein, you 
know, you know, twenty percent 

755
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,500
or 75 percent fat, 20% protein, 
whatever and like. 

756
00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:35,800
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 
You know, it's not just a 

757
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:38,500
blanket formula, you know, it's 
a little different for 

758
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,300
everybody. 
We're all different, we all have

759
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:42,000
different goals, will have 
different needs. 

760
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:47,300
So in the ketogenic 
bodybuilding, Old that I live in

761
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:52,000
that I coach in and 10,000 
members would attest to this. 

762
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,500
And many of my clients here in 
my gym, the higher protein, 

763
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:58,600
moderate fat, lower carb 
approach works really, really. 

764
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,100
Well, one more thing to add on 
top of that, and this is really 

765
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:05,700
where people start throwing 
things at me, I also believe 

766
00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:08,200
that. 
Okay, don't everybody freaked 

767
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,400
out. 
Take a breath carbs, are not the

768
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,100
enemy, they're not the devil, 
okay? 

769
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:19,400
Now Now, I think that carbs in 
excess to be terribly bad, they 

770
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,700
don't work well for me, and 
that's why I changed my entire 

771
00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:25,100
approach, all the way back in 
2005. 

772
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:31,500
However, if you have a toolbox 
full of tools, you've got your 

773
00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:33,900
duct tape. 
You've got your WD-40 and you've

774
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:36,300
got your crescent wrench that 
will handle most shit that 

775
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:39,000
happens in your house. 
But every once in a while you 

776
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,300
need to bring up that one number
seven, star, bit wrench that 

777
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:45,800
just works on the back plate to 
your you know why? 

778
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,500
Heater. 
And if you don't have that damn 

779
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:51,100
wrench, then the whole freaking 
your whole day is going to fall 

780
00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:52,800
apart. 
Well, carbohydrates are that 

781
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,700
same way. 
So I will ingest a small amount 

782
00:41:55,700 --> 00:41:59,900
of carbohydrate around my 
workouts to fuel those workouts.

783
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,100
So if I take in 20 to 30 grams 
of a fast absorbing carbohydrate

784
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:07,500
like a cyclic dextrin or even 
something, more simple, like a 

785
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:10,500
cream of rice with my workout 
intensity. 

786
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:15,200
Those carbohydrates are gone by 
the time I do my last set so 

787
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,500
it's just A tool that I pull out
of my toolbox to fuel May 

788
00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:23,000
through intense training and 
then they're gone. 

789
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,700
And then I go back to high 
protein, moderate fat, low carb.

790
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:32,100
And that I also advocate for 
most people, not everyone, some 

791
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:35,500
people cannot tolerate them 
truly, but I also advocate 

792
00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:39,300
refeeds for certain athletes, 
and this could be 100 grams of 

793
00:42:39,308 --> 00:42:43,600
carbohydrates on a Sunday, or it
could be 500 grams of 

794
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:49,300
carbohydrates for a Robotically,
genetically, gifted 230-pound 

795
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:52,600
male body building and then they
absorb those carbohydrates, 

796
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:56,200
replenish that glycogen, and 
then they go back to normal 

797
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,300
eating on Monday and everything.
Just works great under the hood 

798
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,700
so that, in essence, you know, 
if I just had to Broad Strokes 

799
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:07,600
here. 
I mean, obviously, it's nuanced 

800
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,000
depending on the individual. 
If I have 15 clients here, 

801
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,800
everybody's numbers are going to
be different. 

802
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,400
Everybody's, you know this. 
But but that, that is Definitely

803
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,600
my Approach. 
And again, it is a hybrid and it

804
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,100
works phenomenally well for me 
and my clients, especially, I 

805
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:26,300
can attest to the fact that 
those clients who have got on 

806
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:29,200
stage. 
I've never had I'm a very proud 

807
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,600
to say this but I've never had a
client not placed top three that

808
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,800
I've coached ever. 
And we all do high protein, 

809
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,400
moderate fat, low carb, 
according to that individuals, 

810
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,200
unique energy output, you know? 
So does that answer your 

811
00:43:44,207 --> 00:43:46,800
question? 
Yeah, yeah, I love I'm smiling 

812
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,200
right now. 
This is just Audio Only but I'm 

813
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,400
smiling right now because you 
and I have a lot of 

814
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,900
commonalities and how we view 
nutrition and we have a lot of 

815
00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:56,700
very Stark differences, but 
what's interesting is that I'm 

816
00:43:56,700 --> 00:44:00,100
hearing what you're saying and 
it's like, I totally respect it.

817
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:02,700
Totally appreciate it. 
Totally, you know, get behind 

818
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:04,300
what you're saying. 
I'm a little different in some 

819
00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:07,200
of the specifics, but here we 
are having a very civil 

820
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,300
conversation where it's like, 
there's probably people in your 

821
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:12,000
camp that would throw shade on 
what I would. 

822
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,100
What I would recommend is people
in my camp that would throw 

823
00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:16,900
shade on what you just said. 
It's like people get so 

824
00:44:16,900 --> 00:44:19,500
defensive about these dietary 
protocols. 

825
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:23,200
They have this very Zealot like 
approach to it, which to me is 

826
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,000
just, you know, it's there's no 
good that comes from it. 

827
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,700
So I like that you and I have, 
you know, very commonalities 

828
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:32,000
towards certain things and very 
different takes on other things 

829
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,800
because it allows us to just 
pick each other's brains and 

830
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,100
grow from it and be able to have
a intelligent civil conversation

831
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:41,800
together. 
So look like, you're not doing 

832
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,300
anything wrong. 
I'm not doing anything wrong. 

833
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:50,200
And the thing is that drives me 
crazy is we both Advocate 

834
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,300
ketogenic style principles of 
eating, just because we differ 

835
00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:59,200
on some of the nuances doesn't 
mean we can't all get along. 

836
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,100
We're the ones that should be 
uniting against the processed 

837
00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:06,300
food, crap. 
Big Pharma, all the things that 

838
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:11,000
are just you know, decimating, 
you know Our culture through 

839
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:16,200
shitty nutrition, poor advocacy.
I mean, we should be uniting, 

840
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:20,500
not being divided by G of 
freaking fat, I think it's 

841
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:25,400
absolutely insane if, so, if a 
client of mine came to me and 

842
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,300
told me that they've begun 
working with you because your 

843
00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:31,600
principal seem to be working 
better for them. 

844
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,600
I would say, well, hell yeah, 
he's a great dude. 

845
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,100
He knows what he's doing. 
I applaud that, you know, 

846
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,300
everybody's different rent and I
would go about my business 

847
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:43,200
again. 
I'm not one of these zealots. 

848
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,800
I'm not some freaking cultist, I
don't understand that mentality.

849
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:52,500
I mean II do think that these 
people that just recklessly 

850
00:45:53,300 --> 00:45:58,100
sucked down fat with Reckless 
abandon have it wrong? 

851
00:45:58,300 --> 00:46:02,300
I think that they need to take a
step back and take a look at a 

852
00:46:02,308 --> 00:46:05,300
few things. 
But apart from that, I mean, 

853
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,700
it's just twisting the knobs and
flipping the switches and 

854
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:12,800
turning some We're here and we 
can all get along and whether 

855
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,100
it's your approach or my 
approach, someone out there 

856
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:19,800
could take yours take mine or 
meet somewhere in the middle and

857
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,900
you damn, well know they're 
going to make a very, very 

858
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:24,900
positive change in their life, 
no matter which approach, they 

859
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:26,700
take. 
Yeah, hundred percent man. 

860
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:30,100
So to kind of dissect what we 
have going on here, just for the

861
00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:31,500
listener second. 
I think there's gonna be some 

862
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:33,900
really good nuggets that people,
listen, this can get out of it 

863
00:46:33,908 --> 00:46:38,100
so you and I, you know, like I'm
probably more of a high fat, 

864
00:46:38,100 --> 00:46:41,000
moderate protein. 
Very low to no carb. 

865
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,900
Whereas you are more high 
protein, moderate fat, very low 

866
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:45,600
to no car, but we're similar in 
that. 

867
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,100
We're both very minimal 
carbohydrates. 

868
00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:52,800
So we got that going for us as 
far as the the energy balance, 

869
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,000
think I think we're probably on 
the same page there. 

870
00:46:55,700 --> 00:46:59,500
I definitely like the high-fat 
from a hormone standpoint, I 

871
00:46:59,508 --> 00:47:02,700
like the high fat from an energy
standpoint, but I am right there

872
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:05,900
with you, on saying that people 
that are just simply guzzling, 

873
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:09,300
down, fat, without any, any you 
no attention whatsoever. 

874
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:12,600
To energy balance, they're just 
shooting themselves in the foot.

875
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,600
So we're on the same page there.
There's probably a lot more 

876
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,500
commonality that we have than 
differences. 

877
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,900
I don't do any of the targeted 
carbs or the cyclical carbs. 

878
00:47:22,100 --> 00:47:26,600
I keep it pretty strict keto 
throughout and I think by doing 

879
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,200
a high fat moderate protein 
approach, that's probably more 

880
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,900
conducive to not seeing any 
necessary gain from The High 

881
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:35,600
car. 
However, I can see your approach

882
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,100
in, which its higher protein, 
less carbs, you can, you can 

883
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:41,800
have More of a lever effect from
the carbon Appalachian. 

884
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,800
So there's there's sense in that
too. 

885
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,300
So I feel like we probably have 
a lot more common than people 

886
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:48,400
would think. 
Oh, absolutely. 

887
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,700
I totally agree with that again,
with the carbohydrate 

888
00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:54,300
manipulation and I think 
manipulation is a fantastic 

889
00:47:54,300 --> 00:47:57,200
word. 
Believe me when I assess a 

890
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,200
client's carbohydrate intake 
around workouts, I already have 

891
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,500
a very good understanding of 
their level of intensity at the 

892
00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:10,000
chip and let me reiterate this 
and be very, very clear if For a

893
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,300
moment think that there would be
any and you know this term if 

894
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:18,700
there's any spillover from any 
carbohydrate ingestion around 

895
00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:22,500
workouts that I'm going to 
reduce it or eliminate it. 

896
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:27,800
I also and again you know this 
as well as anybody, it depends 

897
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,600
on the individual. 
I've got some women especially 

898
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,400
if for some reason it's always 
women. 

899
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,500
My men generally called tolerate
carbohydrates, so much better 

900
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:38,900
than women. 
But I have women that if I give 

901
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:42,400
them M, let's talk about on a 
refeed. 

902
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,800
Let's say, like, I could get, I 
have were five male clients that

903
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,400
I can give 500 grams of 
carbohydrates on a Sunday and 

904
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,100
they'll walk into Monday, 
chiseled ripped, vascular, no 

905
00:48:55,100 --> 00:48:56,700
spillover. 
Look amazing. 

906
00:48:56,900 --> 00:49:00,600
And I have women that if I give 
them 40, damn G, it's a damn 

907
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,500
train wreck. 
Everything just goes off the 

908
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:04,500
rails. 
Now, what I have learned and 

909
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:07,700
you've probably done this as 
well, is some of my metabolic 

910
00:49:07,700 --> 00:49:10,400
refeeds as I like to call it. 
Is it? 

911
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,500
I will just do a caloric or even
a fat receipt where if I have 

912
00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:16,700
them on a little bit. 
Like if I have them in a caloric

913
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:20,000
deficit, if they're on a cut. 
So I've got their fat grams a 

914
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,400
little lower and then I'll bring
them in on a refeed day. 

915
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,600
I'll up the grams of fat raise 
their caloric ceiling a bit and 

916
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,800
I find that that's enough to 
sort of get the metabolic 

917
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,700
Machinery Back In Motion, get 
things working again. 

918
00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:36,800
Sort of shake off that stall and
I know that if I give these 

919
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,200
women carbohydrates once again, 
it just goes Goes off into the 

920
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,600
weeds. 
So you have to assess every one 

921
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,800
individually and I think I've 
kind of gotten known you know 

922
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,300
I've had people come to me and 
say hey I heard you're the guy 

923
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:54,400
that can kind of tweak my shit 
like okay. 

924
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,100
I'm not sure what that means. 
But painting, I'll treat your 

925
00:49:58,100 --> 00:50:00,300
shit. 
All right, but no, but but let's

926
00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:05,300
say so that's what I do. 
So instincts are very important 

927
00:50:05,300 --> 00:50:08,700
and when you doing been doing 
this as long as I have you 

928
00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:12,400
develop Your instincts were when
you're looking at an individual.

929
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,000
And again you probably do this 
too. 

930
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,100
But I have my clients submit 
photographs regularly. 

931
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:19,100
Yeah. 
And you look at these 

932
00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:22,600
photographs and it's shocking 
when you have a good eye and 

933
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,300
you've been doing this a long 
time, how something that I will 

934
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:28,600
see? 
They don't even see the like, 

935
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:33,500
okay, well that worked well but 
let's do this in two weeks, you 

936
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:35,600
know, for the next photo shoot 
or let's do this. 

937
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,500
So you tweak things and you keep
manipulating because if I could 

938
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,500
Drive home. 
One thing that this ideology is 

939
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:46,100
that every human being is 
different than that. 

940
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:50,600
One of us is the same. 
None of us have the same DNA. 

941
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:53,500
We're all unique. 
So everybody needs something 

942
00:50:53,500 --> 00:50:55,000
slightly unique with their 
programming. 

943
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,600
I did a lot of give a lot of 
people. 

944
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,300
Same workouts. 
Obviously weights are different,

945
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,400
but when it comes to nutrition, 
let's let's shave off a few 

946
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:04,700
grams here. 
Let's tweak this. 

947
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:06,900
Let's raise that. 
Oh well, you know, I totally 

948
00:51:06,900 --> 00:51:08,600
screwed up on that carbs, don't 
work for you. 

949
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,000
Let's try this. 
So that works phenomenal. 

950
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,300
So we keep everything moving in 
the right direction and when you

951
00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:18,900
see constant, you know, graphs 
of people's weight loss coming 

952
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:21,700
down and down and down and 
they're keeping their lean mass 

953
00:51:21,700 --> 00:51:23,900
and retaining the lean mass, 
which is the goal. 

954
00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:26,500
Then you know, you're moving in 
the right direction because what

955
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:31,600
drives me crazy Did the scales, 
not drive, you nuts, the scales 

956
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,400
drive you insane, like, like 
body weight, scales are food 

957
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,200
skills, like body weight scales,
like stepping on a scale that 

958
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,200
drives me insane because it's 
about body composition. 

959
00:51:41,300 --> 00:51:44,700
Yeah, it's about retaining lean 
mass and removing body fat. 

960
00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:47,600
Like I will literally have 
clients say, well, you know I 

961
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,500
look better in my clothes. 
My pictures look better. 

962
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,900
I'm actually down a size but the
scale hasn't moved. 

963
00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:56,700
So this obviously isn't working.
Yeah, that dress Bloods. 

964
00:51:56,700 --> 00:52:01,200
That drives me nuts. 
The third grade math problem, 

965
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,700
I'll say okay. 
Okay, listen pumpkin, if you put

966
00:52:03,700 --> 00:52:08,200
on two pounds of lean tissue, 
you've made a spectacular change

967
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,200
in your body composition. 
If you lose two pounds of body 

968
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:16,100
fat which believe it or not is 
very substantial amount of body 

969
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:18,800
fat reduction. 
You're going to make a dramatic 

970
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,800
change in your overall physical 
appearance and how your clothes 

971
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,400
fit and how you feel, but the 
net result on that scale is 

972
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:27,400
zero. 
Hmm. 

973
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,200
So you want us, I tell people To
burn their scale, take it to the

974
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,100
gun range. 
Smash it have a scaled 

975
00:52:33,100 --> 00:52:36,200
thrashing, party, whatever I 
make my clients submit 

976
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,300
photographs and circumference 
measurements because I don't 

977
00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:42,300
give a crap about the scale 
because, you know, as well as I 

978
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:45,400
do, it's about body composition.
So what I'm looking at their 

979
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,500
numbers and I'm tweaking things 
as well, how can we retain this 

980
00:52:48,500 --> 00:52:52,300
lean, beautiful sexy, gorgeous 
muscle and bring this body fat 

981
00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:56,800
down to reveal that muscle and 
to give this woman or this man? 

982
00:52:57,100 --> 00:53:01,800
The physique that they say, So 
long for and, you know, once you

983
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,400
convince them of that and clear 
that fog and make them 

984
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,100
understand that then our job is 
so much easier. 

985
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:10,900
Yeah, that totally agree. 
I'm definitely a fan of doing 

986
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:15,300
consistent weigh-ins but also in
the context of the pictures in 

987
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:17,100
the measurements and the 
composition scans. 

988
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:19,100
I mean, it is all about 
composition where I find the 

989
00:53:19,100 --> 00:53:22,400
benefit of the scale is if I'm 
tracking trend lines, I'm trying

990
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,200
to see, you know, what what 
manipulations result in more 

991
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,300
water retention or something 
like that, you can see that and 

992
00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:29,500
pictures as well. 
But Like that. 

993
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,600
I see a benefit in the scale but
people that put their entire 

994
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,400
measure of success waited in the
scale weight alone. 

995
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,300
That's just a very flawed 
perception. 

996
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,700
Absolutely. 
And I get it as a metric of 

997
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:43,200
success and that definitely 
works. 

998
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,500
It's like the thing that so many
people it's just it drives you 

999
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:49,600
crazy how the people's 
perception even at today's 

1000
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,500
culture as intelligent as we are
as incredible as technology has 

1001
00:53:53,500 --> 00:53:57,200
become, you know, it's like I 
like I'm sitting here right now 

1002
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,300
and I weigh 230 pounds. 
Pounds and I'm probably sitting 

1003
00:54:01,300 --> 00:54:04,600
somewhere around 10 or 11 
percent body fat. 

1004
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,300
I could go find 25 men. 
My age that weigh 230 pounds, 

1005
00:54:10,700 --> 00:54:13,800
line them up next to me and 
they're all going to look 

1006
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,300
completely different, you know 
how that works and it's still 

1007
00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:20,500
230 pounds, but the body 
composition is completely 

1008
00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:23,300
different. 
So it's such a people. 

1009
00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:25,500
Just don't, they don't think 
about that. 

1010
00:54:25,500 --> 00:54:27,800
They don't run that through 
their computers, not if I have 

1011
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,600
somebody who's You know, 
clinically obese. 

1012
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,900
Then I think the scale is very 
important because you have to 

1013
00:54:32,900 --> 00:54:35,400
see those little victories. 
And if you are, you know, if 

1014
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:40,100
you're at a point where you're, 
you know, you know, 40% 50% body

1015
00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:42,200
fat then. 
Yeah, you want to see that 

1016
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,500
reduction in the scale because 
then, you know, the compliance 

1017
00:54:45,900 --> 00:54:47,900
is where it needs to be from 
that individual. 

1018
00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:50,800
But when you're talking about 
somebody who's, you know, 

1019
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,000
visible abdominals. 
And you know, they're trying to 

1020
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,200
tweak themselves video, absolute
best, they can be there becomes 

1021
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,200
a point. 
Where the scale becomes very 

1022
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,300
arbitrary and now we have to 
start taking a harder. 

1023
00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:07,000
Look at that visual appearance 
and those circumference 

1024
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,900
measurements and just putting an
eye on these people. 

1025
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,600
And that's where it really 
starts to come together. 

1026
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,900
Totally, totally green. 
I want to get your take on macro

1027
00:55:16,900 --> 00:55:20,100
adherence because this is a 
really hot topic as well. 

1028
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:23,000
I feel like, you know, from an 
intuitive instinctive, eating 

1029
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:27,700
standpoint, you know, the the 
ketogenic low-carb diet is, is 

1030
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:31,200
perfect for Able to just kind 
of, you know, strip away all 

1031
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,700
the, the crazy fluctuations is 
going to get from a craving 

1032
00:55:35,100 --> 00:55:37,200
standpoint due to the insulin 
release. 

1033
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,100
And if you're going to be 
intuitive and instinctive, you 

1034
00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:43,600
can do so much more easily on a 
low-carb, be judging that. 

1035
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,800
However, from a body re comp 
standpoint, like if people are 

1036
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,900
really want to change the way 
they look lose a ton of body 

1037
00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:54,300
fat, gain a ton of muscle mass, 
especially if to the extent of 

1038
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:57,200
like stepping on stage and being
a competitive bodybuilder, I 

1039
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,300
feel like so much of it. 
Hinges on one's ability to be 

1040
00:56:00,300 --> 00:56:04,200
disciplined and strict with 
macro adherence for a, you know,

1041
00:56:04,500 --> 00:56:07,200
defined period of time. 
So, I'm curious to see, you 

1042
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,000
know, like, when you're working 
with clients, you know, what 

1043
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,900
kind of window do you consider 
to be reasonable? 

1044
00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:15,800
Like, if you prescribe them 
certain macros for a week, you 

1045
00:56:15,808 --> 00:56:18,100
know what window outside of that
range? 

1046
00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:20,600
Do you think is realistic or 
reasonable? 

1047
00:56:22,100 --> 00:56:23,800
That's a really, really good 
question. 

1048
00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:27,200
I think we have to step outside 
of that. 

1049
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:33,800
Just one step And look at it as 
how can I put this? 

1050
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,000
Well, let me use an example. 
First of all, what you said 

1051
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,400
about adherence with the 
ketogenic diet is so critical. 

1052
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,000
And I'm glad you brought that up
because we haven't covered it 

1053
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,200
yet. 
I think it's Paramount when I 

1054
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,900
was doing high carb, high 
protein, low fat, you know, 

1055
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,800
eating when I was doing the 
bodybuilding, back in the 90s, 

1056
00:56:56,500 --> 00:57:00,800
it was so difficult when I I got
to that point, where were you 

1057
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,200
start cutting to start getting 
to that point of working towards

1058
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:05,900
being the leanest physique that 
you can? 

1059
00:57:06,300 --> 00:57:11,000
And when you bring up the word 
suffering and diet, when you're 

1060
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,500
you, when your body's use, you 
know, to that roller coaster, 

1061
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,800
that glucose roller coaster. 
And then you all of a sudden 

1062
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,000
subtract that nutrient, and then
it becomes just an absolute 

1063
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,600
sufferfest. 
One of the most beautiful things

1064
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,300
about a ketogenic style 
approach, is that I it was just 

1065
00:57:27,300 --> 00:57:31,500
floored me, is that I went to 
higher protein, moderate fat, 

1066
00:57:31,500 --> 00:57:34,900
low carb. 
My level of satiety was so 

1067
00:57:34,900 --> 00:57:38,600
incredible, it almost freaking 
me out. 

1068
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,800
It kind of scared the shit out 
of me because, you know, and I 

1069
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,100
do believe in gain phase cut 
things. 

1070
00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:47,000
I believe, if you're trying to 
put on lean mass, you have to go

1071
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,500
into a slight Surplus. 
And then if you're trying to 

1072
00:57:49,500 --> 00:57:51,300
lose, you have to go into a 
deficit. 

1073
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,400
And then if you're trying to get
to that point of extreme 

1074
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,900
physique, we're going to step up
on stage. 

1075
00:57:57,300 --> 00:58:00,200
You are you and I both know. 
No you and I both know it'll get

1076
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,600
to that point where you have to 
go very very you know deep into 

1077
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,800
your deficit to get to where you
want to be. 

1078
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:10,400
Yeah, the bizarre thing that I 
found and discovered back in 

1079
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:16,300
2015, when I prep for that first
show was when I went down. 

1080
00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:18,700
Even I was getting to the point 
where I was taken in like, you 

1081
00:58:18,700 --> 00:58:21,500
know, 17 1800 calories. 
And this is for, you know, 

1082
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:26,500
220-pound guy. 
I still had a level of satiety 

1083
00:58:26,500 --> 00:58:29,800
that blew me away. 
I mean, I Back in the 90s. 

1084
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,100
If I went down to 1800 calories,
to try to get shredded, I would 

1085
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:37,200
be absolutely crying miserable 
like like yelling at people 

1086
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,200
beating people up wanting to 
sleep all day. 

1087
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,500
I hate my life screw you, you 
know, offending people. 

1088
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,200
And when I went to a ketogenic 
style diet and I flipped the 

1089
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,400
script from, you know, 
carbohydrate and fat and kind of

1090
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,400
flip those nutrients. 
My level of satiety went through

1091
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,000
the roof. 
So in terms of got dietary 

1092
00:58:55,000 --> 00:59:01,300
adherence to, you know, that 
entire our protocol that 

1093
00:59:01,300 --> 00:59:06,600
ideology has been invaluable in 
working with clientele to adhere

1094
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,200
to the diet. 
Now, the downside is receipts 

1095
00:59:11,100 --> 00:59:13,400
and I'll admit that and we 
talked about that you said 

1096
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,200
that's not necessarily your 
thing and I get it and it's not 

1097
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,600
always necessary. 
Re fades in my thing, I do 

1098
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,500
refuse but they're ketogenic 
colloquy feeds more so than the 

1099
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:23,900
Carberry feeds so they're 
similar but different. 

1100
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,200
Sure. 
So what I found is the only 

1101
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:32,100
downside is you have to be at a 
high level of adherence and 

1102
00:59:32,100 --> 00:59:37,400
discipline because when you tell
somebody, okay, Sunday, I want 

1103
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:41,000
you to have 250 grams of 
carbohydrate, and I want to want

1104
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,900
you to drop your fat down to 30 
grams. 

1105
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:46,200
And I want those carbohydrates 
to come from sweet potatoes, 

1106
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,400
cream of rice, you know, brown 
rice, you know, traditional 

1107
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,500
nutrient, dense, bodybuilding 
sort of carbohydrate nutrient 

1108
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:55,700
for lack of a better term. 
Nutrient dense. 

1109
00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:56,800
What? 
We know how that is. 

1110
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,800
Yeah and then that certain you 
get that certain eventual that 

1111
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,200
has okay I've just had sweet 
potato that I had some rice with

1112
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:10,400
my chicken at lunch and then I 
had you know, whatever potato 

1113
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,700
with dinner and then that potato
turned into ice cream. 

1114
01:00:13,700 --> 01:00:17,700
And then it was, you know, like 
like like, pinning, my daughter 

1115
01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:20,800
against the wall and stealing 
her french fries and then like, 

1116
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,300
rating the house at three am 
looking for jars of Nutella. 

1117
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,300
Yeah and then you know, two days
later you see the guy sitting in

1118
01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:31,600
an alley panhandling for carbs 
and sugar so you have to be very

1119
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,400
aware of the individual that 
you're working with that. 

1120
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,600
They can have that mental 
discipline at that point in time

1121
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,100
to adhere to that. 
So you know, you have to be 

1122
01:00:41,100 --> 01:00:45,900
careful. 
It's a slippery slope and so I 

1123
01:00:45,900 --> 01:00:48,200
know I got off track a little 
bit with your question, but it 

1124
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,300
brought up a sort of a greater 
point that I think what needed 

1125
01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:56,300
to be said that the ketogenic. 
It principles have been 

1126
01:00:56,300 --> 01:00:59,700
absolutely invaluable with that 
level of satiety, and that 

1127
01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:02,800
dietary adherence. 
And the one thing I would say 

1128
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,000
is, you know, a lot of the 
ketogenic people out there 

1129
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,400
saying, you know, fat is the 
most satiating nutrient. 

1130
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:14,100
Well, the science suggests, 
otherwise, that protein is has a

1131
01:01:14,100 --> 01:01:17,800
little higher level of satiety 
and I would agree with that. 

1132
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,800
But I think, when you combine 
the two with the absence of 

1133
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,200
carbohydrate the level of 
dietary adherence, Becomes so 

1134
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:29,200
much easier than the old school 
carbohydrate approach. 

1135
01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:32,000
Now we're I like to bring in the
carbohydrates to touch on 

1136
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,800
another quick topic, is a lot of
people in the ketogenic 

1137
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,700
Community, talk about insulin 
like it's this evil horrific 

1138
01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:43,800
thing that you never want to get
near where I would argue that if

1139
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:48,000
you're trying to build lean mass
and the most extreme muscular 

1140
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,200
physique that you can, you do 
want to have periods of insulin 

1141
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:57,200
secretion to maximize Has the 
ability to gain and maintain 

1142
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,800
lean muscle mass because it 
plays a role. 

1143
01:01:59,900 --> 01:02:02,100
Does that make sense? 
Yeah, it does play room. 

1144
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,700
Totally. 
I mean it's weird that people 

1145
01:02:05,100 --> 01:02:08,900
villainize insulin in the the 
ketogenic space may not 

1146
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:11,000
everyone. 
But I mean instance, a pretty 

1147
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,500
important hormone in our body. 
So it's not like we want to just

1148
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,200
disbanded it completely. 
There's like, again, there's a 

1149
01:02:17,207 --> 01:02:19,700
dichotomy to every single thing 
that we're talking about here. 

1150
01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:21,400
Right. 
Right. 

1151
01:02:21,500 --> 01:02:24,100
Absolutely. 
And the points you're making are

1152
01:02:24,100 --> 01:02:25,800
absolutely perfect. 
And I think they need to be 

1153
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:31,000
said, so any and you're right? 
We agree on so many things, but 

1154
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,800
we're not completely lockstep. 
And that's the beautiful thing 

1155
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:40,700
about this and I'm so glad that 
you're, you know, thousands and 

1156
01:02:40,700 --> 01:02:43,000
thousands of listeners out 
there, hearing this. 

1157
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:49,000
To listen, guys, you don't have 
to be just I'm on this camp or 

1158
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,300
I'm on this Camp. 
There's something to be learned 

1159
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:55,000
from both. 
Now, once again, the, the crazy,

1160
01:02:55,100 --> 01:02:58,000
you know, butter chugging two 
sticks of butter in my coffee, 

1161
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,600
you know, in fast for the next 
nine days. 

1162
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,700
People, I can't get on board 
with that, but the absence of 

1163
01:03:04,700 --> 01:03:09,700
carbohydrate and then, you know,
the adherence to that nutrient, 

1164
01:03:09,700 --> 01:03:13,900
dense, fat. 
And the high protein for the 

1165
01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:16,600
maintaining, the maintenance of 
muscle tissue and the growth of 

1166
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,200
tissue Etc. 
I mean it makes perfect sense 

1167
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:24,500
and So many people don't 
understand how you can combine 

1168
01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:28,400
the worlds of strength training 
and bodybuilding and that 

1169
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:32,700
extreme physique culture with 
ketogenic principles is beyond 

1170
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:36,600
me because it's just a simple 
look at some of the science 

1171
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:40,300
dictates that it the marriage 
really actually works perfectly 

1172
01:03:40,300 --> 01:03:42,800
together. 
If you go back to the Golden Era

1173
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,000
of bodybuilding like Vince 
gironda, the dude was eating 

1174
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,600
like three dozen eggs a day. 
You know, you talk about Arnold 

1175
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,600
Schwarzenegger Was like, if you 
asked him what his perfect meal 

1176
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,700
was the, dude always said, steak
and eggs. 

1177
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,100
And again, for those people out 
there, I'm not. 

1178
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:03,000
I'm not one of these keto 
cheesecake cookie dough pizza, 

1179
01:04:03,100 --> 01:04:05,500
Kita. 
I've always said, why don't one 

1180
01:04:05,500 --> 01:04:08,900
of my tenants one of my 
Commandments is, is the first 

1181
01:04:08,900 --> 01:04:12,700
thing that you do when going key
do is start looking for keto 

1182
01:04:12,700 --> 01:04:15,300
versions of the shit that got 
you into this mess in the first 

1183
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:18,600
place, you're screwing up. 
Okay, that's not going to work. 

1184
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:23,200
So, when I think of Carb 
ketogenic, Primal ancestral, 

1185
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:29,100
Health Nutrition, I'm thinking 
steak eggs, chicken fish, 

1186
01:04:29,100 --> 01:04:34,400
salmon, avocados, healthy 
omega-3, oils nutrient-dense, 

1187
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,000
quality fat foods that are 
actually going to give you a net

1188
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,500
positive results with not only 
the ability to build and 

1189
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:43,700
maintain muscle. 
But your overall hormonal 

1190
01:04:43,700 --> 01:04:48,300
Health, longevity, Vitality, all
of these things, it's not just 

1191
01:04:48,300 --> 01:04:51,500
about, you know, figuring out 
how to Change the crust on your 

1192
01:04:51,500 --> 01:04:54,500
damn pizza to adhere to some 
bullshit. 

1193
01:04:54,500 --> 01:04:59,700
Ketogenic lifestyle that you 
read about Shape magazine, total

1194
01:04:59,700 --> 01:05:02,000
agreement. 
Totally totally agree. 

1195
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:07,000
Sorry for the language. 
But you know when Slimfast has a

1196
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:11,200
keto freaking Shake, even don't 
you see through that shit 

1197
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,200
immediately. 
I mean, they're just trying to 

1198
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:18,600
sell you some more processed 
garbage and lend to your 

1199
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,500
inability to take your Anywhere 
it needs to be while they've had

1200
01:05:22,500 --> 01:05:24,600
their wallets. 
These people don't care about 

1201
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,300
your results. 
I don't care about your health 

1202
01:05:26,300 --> 01:05:29,300
and fitness they sit in their 
boardroom talking about how they

1203
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:33,000
can increase advertising dollars
and Pad their damn wallets and 

1204
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,900
make their shareholders happy. 
They don't give two shits about 

1205
01:05:35,900 --> 01:05:37,300
you losing weight on your 
health. 

1206
01:05:37,700 --> 01:05:40,000
So you're going to talk to 
people like yourself, you got to

1207
01:05:40,008 --> 01:05:43,400
talk to people about like me and
other fantastic people in our 

1208
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,200
community so we can band 
together and work together to 

1209
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,000
try to change the culture 
whether it's to be the step on 

1210
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,700
stage. 
Age that me this ripped amazing 

1211
01:05:52,700 --> 01:05:56,800
freaking machine or just, you 
know, the local, you know, your 

1212
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:01,900
grandmother who needs to stay 
away or morbid obesity. 

1213
01:06:01,900 --> 01:06:05,000
So you can hover around for 
another 20 years to give wisdom 

1214
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,200
to your grandchildren, kind of 
percent man. 

1215
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:12,100
I think, you know, it's strange 
because there's so much in 

1216
01:06:12,100 --> 01:06:15,900
common with in the low-carb, 
keto Community, you know whether

1217
01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:20,300
it's higher protein, higher fat,
I mean, it's all built on a very

1218
01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:24,100
Miller Foundation that I get so 
frustrated seeing all this, you 

1219
01:06:24,100 --> 01:06:28,900
know, like Cutthroats disparity 
between the groups that are all 

1220
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,300
at the end of the day in the 
same subculture to begin with. 

1221
01:06:32,300 --> 01:06:34,300
I mean, I wish they would all 
just sit down and have a 

1222
01:06:34,308 --> 01:06:36,900
conversation band together and 
what they have in common and 

1223
01:06:36,900 --> 01:06:39,900
recognized that where they have 
differences is oftentimes just 

1224
01:06:40,100 --> 01:06:43,700
you know personal preference by 
own individuality something 

1225
01:06:43,700 --> 01:06:46,900
probably be improved upon here 
and there but for the most part 

1226
01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:50,000
we're all speaking the same 
language so banding together and

1227
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,500
fighting The same fight is is 
key. 

1228
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:54,200
You know, Paramount of 
importance. 

1229
01:06:55,700 --> 01:06:57,300
Are you doing? 
Good on time, I do have one more

1230
01:06:57,300 --> 01:07:00,200
question for you. 
Oh, I'm totally good on time. 

1231
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,800
I don't have a life. 
What are you talking about? 

1232
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,400
I'm going to gyp. 
Well, in that case, I'll bring 

1233
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,200
up two topics, the butter 
chugging thing. 

1234
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,800
You know, it's interesting 
because I feel like there's, 

1235
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:17,100
I've often been pegged as this 
high fat, low protein guy which 

1236
01:07:17,100 --> 01:07:19,100
I've fought tooth and nail from 
from the beginning. 

1237
01:07:19,100 --> 01:07:23,900
Because I've it, This is weird, 
you know, pendulum shift in the 

1238
01:07:23,900 --> 01:07:27,900
keto space in which people have 
become fearful of protein for, 

1239
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,800
you know, the sake of it, 
decreasing their Beach be count 

1240
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,900
on a blood meter, which is a 
massive frustration for me. 

1241
01:07:33,900 --> 01:07:36,000
I mean, protein is so incredibly
important. 

1242
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,200
And yes, there is a period of 
time during the very latter part

1243
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,200
of a prep. 
We all have my protein down, 

1244
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:45,300
very low relative to my fat 
intake, but I am all for 

1245
01:07:45,500 --> 01:07:47,300
consuming a lot of protein that 
right now, for instance, I want 

1246
01:07:47,300 --> 01:07:50,100
to building phase and I had 225 
grams of protein. 

1247
01:07:50,100 --> 01:07:51,600
Yes. 
So that's pretty high protein 

1248
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,600
for something that weighs 180 
pounds. 

1249
01:07:53,700 --> 01:07:57,700
While we're like brothers, then,
you know, we're like brothers 

1250
01:07:57,700 --> 01:07:58,700
than. 
That's, exactly right? 

1251
01:07:58,700 --> 01:08:04,000
I mean, here's what I would say 
about that is you have I'll get 

1252
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,800
these people that come to me and
talk about their taking a super 

1253
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,200
high amounts of fat but they 
tell me that their goal is to 

1254
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,100
drop body fat. 
So I told them okay, 

1255
01:08:12,100 --> 01:08:16,000
thermodynamics is still up 
thing, energy balance is still a

1256
01:08:16,008 --> 01:08:20,300
thing hormones, do play a role 
and each macaron. 

1257
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:24,000
Trent differs from the other 
macronutrient, you know, we 

1258
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:29,000
have, you know, protein has a, 
you know, higher thermic effect.

1259
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:34,000
You know, that that differs as 
well as well as carbohydrates 

1260
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,899
do. 
But my thing is this and it's 

1261
01:08:36,899 --> 01:08:39,300
almost become a catch phrase 
within the people within my 

1262
01:08:39,300 --> 01:08:40,600
group. 
And the people that work with me

1263
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,500
and follow me, if you're number 
one, goal is the reduction of 

1264
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:46,300
body fat. 
That's your goal and your taking

1265
01:08:46,300 --> 01:08:50,300
in fat in the excess of what 
your body needs for energy. 

1266
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:53,600
Energy output to consume for 
energy output, which is the 

1267
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,000
purpose of it. 
You know why? 

1268
01:08:56,399 --> 01:09:00,200
I always ask a question, I 
always say, give me an answer. 

1269
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,500
Would you rather burn the butter
in your coffee? 

1270
01:09:03,700 --> 01:09:05,800
Or would you rather burn the fat
on your ass? 

1271
01:09:07,700 --> 01:09:10,200
To this day. 
Nobody has said anything other 

1272
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:14,700
than ass fat. 
So, you know, if you take in fat

1273
01:09:15,100 --> 01:09:19,300
in excess of more than your body
needs for, you know, output and 

1274
01:09:19,300 --> 01:09:23,600
energy, then any unused fat, 
like any other, you know, 

1275
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,399
nutrient is going to store. 
Now the one slight exception to 

1276
01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:30,399
that rule is protein protein has
a job to do. 

1277
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:34,500
It doesn't necessarily want to 
convert to body fat of the three

1278
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:40,899
macronutrients in terms of body 
fat, Version fat can convert to 

1279
01:09:40,899 --> 01:09:44,500
body fat fairly easily. 
Carbohydrates can definitely 

1280
01:09:44,500 --> 01:09:46,300
convert to body fat fairly 
easily. 

1281
01:09:46,500 --> 01:09:49,800
That's why we have to watch the 
amount of fat that we take in 

1282
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,300
and use it for constructive 
purposes. 

1283
01:09:52,500 --> 01:09:56,400
Whereas protein wants to break 
down into amino acids, it wants 

1284
01:09:56,400 --> 01:10:00,400
to fuel and wants to repair and 
replenish the body wants to 

1285
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,800
build muscle. 
That's its goal. 

1286
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:06,300
It is like this little 
construction workers that slap 

1287
01:10:06,300 --> 01:10:08,200
on their hard hats. 
It's closed up. 

1288
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,700
Their lunch pail stamp out their
cigarettes, and they're ready to

1289
01:10:10,700 --> 01:10:14,000
get to work. 
Protein has a job to do of all 

1290
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,900
the three major macronutrients. 
The one that is the most least 

1291
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,800
likely to convert to body fat, 
who has the highest you know, 

1292
01:10:21,900 --> 01:10:24,300
thermic effect of food is 
protein. 

1293
01:10:24,700 --> 01:10:28,500
So that's why people like, you 
know, competitive bodybuilders 

1294
01:10:28,500 --> 01:10:33,600
for as long as you and I can 
possibly remember go very, very 

1295
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,900
high on their protein and, you 
know, back in the 70s and 80s, 

1296
01:10:37,900 --> 01:10:40,900
they would go moderate fat, and 
very, very low carb on their 

1297
01:10:40,900 --> 01:10:43,300
preps. 
And then that kind of shifted a 

1298
01:10:43,308 --> 01:10:45,900
little bit little bit in the 
90s, but they were still very 

1299
01:10:45,900 --> 01:10:48,400
cognizant and aware of the 
amount. 

1300
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:51,200
They were taken in, to make sure
here's that word again, but it 

1301
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:54,000
doesn't spill over. 
You have to be aware of that. 

1302
01:10:54,300 --> 01:10:57,100
But the one nutrient 
macronutrient that there's 

1303
01:10:57,100 --> 01:11:00,500
little awareness, put toward in 
terms of storing, his body fat 

1304
01:11:00,500 --> 01:11:03,400
is protein. 
So, and, you know, there's some 

1305
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,800
great. 
Listen, I'm the boots on the 

1306
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,700
ground. 
I'm like, the The guy out there 

1307
01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:12,100
you know he's got blood stains 
on his fatigues, you know, 

1308
01:11:12,100 --> 01:11:15,700
marching with my troops out on 
the bloody dirty Battlefield, 

1309
01:11:15,700 --> 01:11:18,200
taking them to war. 
That's what I do. 

1310
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:21,200
There are other guys out there a
lot more intelligent with me 

1311
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:22,700
that the lane Norton's of the 
world. 

1312
01:11:22,700 --> 01:11:25,600
The Marty candles of the world 
that said Naamans of the world. 

1313
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,800
So many others that I could list
that I've forgotten. 

1314
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,800
Even Dom D'Agostino that would 
tell you the same damn thing. 

1315
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:33,400
You know. 
It's not just about consuming 

1316
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,500
fat with the Reckless abandon, 
it's about being very 

1317
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,300
disciplined. 
Your fat intake to make sure 

1318
01:11:39,300 --> 01:11:41,400
that you're getting the required
amount that you need without it 

1319
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,300
spilling over. 
And then letting protein just do

1320
01:11:44,300 --> 01:11:46,200
its damn job. 
Okay. 

1321
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,600
And then people talk about oh 
gluconeogenesis gluconeogenesis.

1322
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,800
Well we also know through the 
science that gluconeogenesis is 

1323
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,900
demand-driven, not supply driven
so you don't have to be 

1324
01:11:55,900 --> 01:11:58,800
terrified of it. 
Like so many people are, that's 

1325
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,900
another major misconception in 
the key to world that if you're 

1326
01:12:01,900 --> 01:12:04,200
taking in all this protein, is 
just going to immediately 

1327
01:12:04,500 --> 01:12:07,200
transform into glucose, you 
know. 

1328
01:12:07,300 --> 01:12:09,200
Protein does not turn into gummy
bears. 

1329
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,300
That's not what it does. 
Yeah but we've been led to us. 

1330
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,400
So once again, you know you're 
definitely on the same page. 

1331
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:20,100
I think I'm on the same page so 
we kind of find the nuances 

1332
01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:22,900
between those macronutrients 
that work best for our level of 

1333
01:12:22,900 --> 01:12:25,700
output and energy. 
Now, I'm a 230-pound guy. 

1334
01:12:25,700 --> 01:12:28,800
I'm a big guy. 
I always have it out of 11 pound

1335
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,000
baby with big-ass, broad 
shoulders at nearly killed. 

1336
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,000
My mom coming out, you know, and
I put on weight, like I, I'm a 

1337
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,200
self. 
Listen, I'm not naive. 

1338
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:40,300
And I tell, every young guy that
I meet good. 

1339
01:12:40,300 --> 01:12:42,800
Please listen to me young kid. 
Please. 

1340
01:12:43,300 --> 01:12:47,500
It's about genetics. 
It's about work, ethic, and you 

1341
01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:50,600
have to kill yourself. 
Don't for a minute, think it's 

1342
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:55,100
about anything else so, you 
know, it's definitely your. 

1343
01:12:55,500 --> 01:12:58,200
What is your stage? 
Wait, when I'm a lot lighter 

1344
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:00,200
than you. 
I come on stage at like one 

1345
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,700
between 157 and 165. 
Depending on what look I'm going

1346
01:13:03,700 --> 01:13:05,000
for. 
Okay. 

1347
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:10,900
So your between 115 165 and And 
the and 219 I was at 2:13, you 

1348
01:13:10,900 --> 01:13:13,400
know, I was a heavyweight, we're
two completely different 

1349
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:17,600
individuals, but the same thing 
remains. 

1350
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,600
We have to find the right. 
Nuance between those 

1351
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:23,700
macronutrients that work best 
for our level of output. 

1352
01:13:23,700 --> 01:13:26,900
Our size, our genetics are body 
weight. 

1353
01:13:26,900 --> 01:13:29,500
I mean, so many things come into
it goes all the way back to. 

1354
01:13:29,500 --> 01:13:32,700
What we started talking about. 
45 minutes ago, every unique 

1355
01:13:32,700 --> 01:13:35,900
individual has unique needs and 
you have to find out what those 

1356
01:13:35,900 --> 01:13:39,800
needs are and Take them and turn
the levers of twist the knobs 

1357
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,400
until you find the right 
formula. 

1358
01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:45,000
That works for those 
individuals. 

1359
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,800
Totally, totally green. 
I want to I want to pull the 

1360
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:49,800
curtain back on something. 
You said here because I feel 

1361
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,700
like this is a point of 
contention. 

1362
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,200
Amongst a large part of my 
audience and likely large part 

1363
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,300
of your audience. 
I'm like, people say, you know 

1364
01:13:58,300 --> 01:13:59,800
you don't want to eat a bunch of
dietary fat. 

1365
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,600
If your primary goal is to lose 
body fat and I understand what 

1366
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,500
they're saying. 
I typically don't like that 

1367
01:14:05,500 --> 01:14:08,800
Viewpoint because I've always 
He's viewed it to the sense of 

1368
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:11,300
like what I'm doing a prep. 
For instance, I'll have a very 

1369
01:14:11,300 --> 01:14:14,200
high fat ratio and I'm cutting 
body fat, like crazy. 

1370
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,000
I'm taking a lot of dietary fat 
more dietary fat real to the 

1371
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,400
protein by a long shot, and I'll
still be losing body fat. 

1372
01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:23,600
So, if it was just that, that 
wouldn't necessarily apply to me

1373
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,500
and I'm assuming that I'm not 
like a, you know, the one person

1374
01:14:26,500 --> 01:14:27,900
the world with that would apply 
to. 

1375
01:14:28,500 --> 01:14:31,400
However this is where this is 
what we're going to. 

1376
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:36,600
Wow some people here so much of 
it hinges on metabolism. 

1377
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:39,200
So if somebody is Consuming like
somebody's down regular their 

1378
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,800
Metabolism from chronic under 
eating and they're only 

1379
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,800
consuming 1000 calories that 
they're trying to can't maintain

1380
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,400
a high fat ratio like 75 percent
or greater, they're not going to

1381
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:52,100
be consuming near enough protein
to to be healthy. 

1382
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,300
Whereas if you get a very high 
functioning metabolic rate due 

1383
01:14:55,300 --> 01:14:57,800
to having a period of a building
phase like you when you were 

1384
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,800
talking about earlier you're 
going to have a lot more caloric

1385
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,800
Runway from which to taper from 
going forward and you can 

1386
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,200
maintain a high fat ratio while 
still. 

1387
01:15:07,300 --> 01:15:09,100
Zooming, totally adequate 
protein. 

1388
01:15:09,100 --> 01:15:11,100
Like I don't want to be ever 
pegged as a low-protein guy. 

1389
01:15:11,100 --> 01:15:12,900
I'm the adequate protein guy. 
There's periods. 

1390
01:15:12,900 --> 01:15:15,300
I have high protein a or have 
low protein, but depending on 

1391
01:15:15,300 --> 01:15:18,900
the goal that goes up and down 
my whole view, towards the high 

1392
01:15:18,900 --> 01:15:22,200
fat percentage is that if my 
primary fuel source is coming 

1393
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:26,000
from dietary fat, and I'm 
consuming a lot of dietary fat, 

1394
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:29,200
my body's efficiency at using 
fat, as a fuel source is 

1395
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:32,600
heightened where that's dietary 
fat or stored body fat. 

1396
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,800
But all the while I'm consuming 
adequate protein. 

1397
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:39,600
So I think this would be a good 
You know, I want to just kind of

1398
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:43,200
run with it for a second on the 
importance of having periods in 

1399
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:47,200
a surplus to ramp up metabolism 
because no matter what protocol 

1400
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:49,100
you're following. 
Whether it be high fat moderate 

1401
01:15:49,100 --> 01:15:51,000
protein or high protein moderate
fat. 

1402
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,100
If your metabolism is screwed at
the onset, you're just shooting 

1403
01:15:54,100 --> 01:15:56,100
yourself in the foot with a ton 
of caloric restriction. 

1404
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,500
Oh absolutely, I would 100% 
agree with that. 

1405
01:15:59,700 --> 01:16:06,000
I have clients that I've have, 
well, I've got one client who's 

1406
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,800
fat is higher than their 18. 
But I've got a handful who are 

1407
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,900
equal very much equal and it 
works so well for them and they 

1408
01:16:12,900 --> 01:16:18,100
are lighter leaner high 
metabolism, kind of guys. 

1409
01:16:18,300 --> 01:16:20,300
And I would 100% agree with 
that. 

1410
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,700
I am. 
I am one of these people, you 

1411
01:16:22,700 --> 01:16:26,300
know, I'm a bigger guy and I am 
a self-professed. 

1412
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:33,900
What's the term I always use? 
Well, I look at a weight. 

1413
01:16:33,900 --> 01:16:36,000
I put on muscle, I've always 
been that way. 

1414
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:41,800
I'm a hyper responder with with 
that comes. 

1415
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:47,000
If I am not on my game, I put on
fat quickly and easily, okay? 

1416
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:49,700
So I have to be very, very 
cognizant of that. 

1417
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:55,300
And I 100% agree with your 
premise and don't ever, I don't 

1418
01:16:55,300 --> 01:16:57,100
want anybody to confuse the 
fact. 

1419
01:16:57,100 --> 01:17:01,300
They think that I'm don't think 
my moderate fat take. 

1420
01:17:01,500 --> 01:17:05,200
Don't confuse that for low fat 
by any stress because when I 

1421
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:09,500
first set somebody's intake, 
Oftentimes you know, fat has 

1422
01:17:09,500 --> 01:17:12,300
nine calories per gram to 
proteins for. 

1423
01:17:12,700 --> 01:17:16,600
So even though the G are 
considerably different, when you

1424
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:19,800
look at the percentages, they 
often equal out, that make 

1425
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:21,100
sense. 
Yep, exactly. 

1426
01:17:21,700 --> 01:17:24,000
So when I'm working with 
somebody, especially on a gain 

1427
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,200
fence for sure or even at 
maintenance support, when 

1428
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,400
working with somebody at 
maintenance, which I usually 

1429
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:32,300
start them out at maintenance 
and then grow them into a game 

1430
01:17:32,300 --> 01:17:34,000
face. 
There's a term that I like to 

1431
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,200
use called growing into the diet
when you put somebody at 

1432
01:17:37,300 --> 01:17:40,400
Maintenance calories and you up 
their intensity and the gym and 

1433
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:43,000
you change your level of 
training and you manipulate 

1434
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,600
their macros, they will grow 
into that diet to wear those 

1435
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,000
initial macros that you set. 
Have to be altered or 

1436
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,900
manipulated because they've 
added some lean tissue and drop 

1437
01:17:52,900 --> 01:17:55,900
some body fat so they sort of 
grow into the diet. 

1438
01:17:56,100 --> 01:17:59,200
So, you know, you can look, if 
you look at some of these macros

1439
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:02,200
on my app, like all of my 
clients, get this very, very 

1440
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:05,800
cool app that they use to track 
everything, you know, somebody 

1441
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:11,300
might be at, you know, No, 47 
percent protein, and 46 percent 

1442
01:18:11,300 --> 01:18:14,300
fat. 
That's that's not that's not low

1443
01:18:14,300 --> 01:18:18,700
fat, it's just but if you look 
at the G, if you're not educated

1444
01:18:18,700 --> 01:18:21,200
on this, you think oh, look how 
much lower the fat is in the 

1445
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,000
protein. 
Well, you know, elementary 

1446
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:25,900
school stuff here. 
Don't you don't forget, it's 

1447
01:18:25,900 --> 01:18:28,000
nine calories per gram opposed 
to 4. 

1448
01:18:28,500 --> 01:18:31,800
So I'll often start you out 
nearly equally in terms of 

1449
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,300
percentages. 
But if you look at the G, 

1450
01:18:34,300 --> 01:18:36,400
there's a stark difference 
because of the calories per 

1451
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,900
gram. 
That seems to work very well, 

1452
01:18:39,100 --> 01:18:41,500
then if I take somebody into a 
gain phase, there's even been 

1453
01:18:41,500 --> 01:18:44,900
times for that. 
Percentage is in the is in the 

1454
01:18:44,900 --> 01:18:48,100
greater column with the fat, 
just depends on what the human 

1455
01:18:48,100 --> 01:18:51,300
being can tolerate, what their 
metabolism is you know all of 

1456
01:18:51,308 --> 01:18:54,700
these things that you mentioned.
So I would I would 100% agree 

1457
01:18:54,700 --> 01:18:57,700
with that. 
Once again we've realized that 

1458
01:18:57,700 --> 01:19:01,300
we're not very far off here. 
It's working with each 

1459
01:19:01,300 --> 01:19:06,300
individual's unique needs to 
create the most you know the 

1460
01:19:06,300 --> 01:19:09,000
greatest. 
Just body composition that we 

1461
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:16,300
can muscle is a premium. 
You lack of muscle is a bad 

1462
01:19:16,300 --> 01:19:21,100
thing. 
Always 100 percent body fat is 

1463
01:19:21,100 --> 01:19:23,500
bad. 
Always 100%. 

1464
01:19:23,500 --> 01:19:26,000
You do need some. 
I'm not I'm not being ridiculous

1465
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,500
here obviously, you know, I 
always tell my client, I was 

1466
01:19:29,500 --> 01:19:32,800
clients and you know, them that 
get super, super lean, you get a

1467
01:19:32,808 --> 01:19:35,800
guy that gets sub 10 percent. 
You get a woman that gets like 

1468
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:39,200
sub 14%. 
And they love the way they look 

1469
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:41,200
and like I'm going to live this 
way you around. 

1470
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:45,500
No you're not because that's 
crazy and we need to think about

1471
01:19:45,500 --> 01:19:48,900
your health. 
So we bring them back up to a 

1472
01:19:48,900 --> 01:19:52,000
desirable maintenance and bring 
them back to a healthy body fat 

1473
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:55,700
percentage and give them a diet 
break for God's sake. 

1474
01:19:56,100 --> 01:19:59,800
And then we look at, you know, 
because of what I do with my 

1475
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:03,600
clients, I look at everything as
a season and we take you through

1476
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:05,500
again. 
We might be a take you through a

1477
01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:07,900
maintenance diet break. 
When we met I take you through a

1478
01:20:07,900 --> 01:20:11,700
cut will achieve a goal. 
We will reset read manipulate 

1479
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:13,500
and then we will start the 
process. 

1480
01:20:13,500 --> 01:20:15,900
Again, I mean, that's just the 
way that I look at it. 

1481
01:20:15,900 --> 01:20:19,700
That's just the way I'm wired 
and so far, my clientele loves 

1482
01:20:19,700 --> 01:20:21,700
that approach. 
It's not for everybody. 

1483
01:20:21,900 --> 01:20:24,800
Some people want to be think 
they want to be set on the same 

1484
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,300
macros. 
The same caloric ceiling and 

1485
01:20:27,300 --> 01:20:30,400
live that way year-round. 
And if we do that and that works

1486
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,300
for you, great, I'm all for 
that. 

1487
01:20:33,300 --> 01:20:37,100
If the clients happy I'm happy. 
But, you know, as well as I do. 

1488
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,400
How many happy clients you have 
12 months out of the year? 

1489
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:45,500
I mean come on I mean isn't it 
all literally on a weekly basis?

1490
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:49,200
You can have somebody who's that
eight pack abs looks amazing. 

1491
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:53,500
Vascular chiseled just just 
ridiculous and they're going to 

1492
01:20:53,508 --> 01:20:57,200
find flawed because that's just 
the way our minds work. 

1493
01:20:57,600 --> 01:20:59,300
You know if you're getting if 
you're coming to the end of a 

1494
01:20:59,300 --> 01:21:02,900
prep, your two weeks out, 
everybody in the gym says, oh, 

1495
01:21:02,900 --> 01:21:04,700
Robert you look absolutely 
stunning. 

1496
01:21:04,700 --> 01:21:07,100
You're going to crush this. 
Nobody's close to you. 

1497
01:21:07,300 --> 01:21:10,200
You look in the mirror, you see 
Napoleon Dynamite, that's just 

1498
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:11,900
the way our brains work. 
Okay. 

1499
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:15,700
We all see that, you know, we 
all see the flaws, we all have 

1500
01:21:15,700 --> 01:21:19,500
clients that will send me a pic 
and say, I look fluffy, I look 

1501
01:21:19,500 --> 01:21:21,600
fat. 
I look like absolute dog, shit. 

1502
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,300
I don't know what the hell's 
going on and they are chiseled 

1503
01:21:24,300 --> 01:21:27,800
and ripped and amazing and 
muscular and vascular and just 

1504
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,500
just Exquisite. 
So I've got to talk him off. 

1505
01:21:31,500 --> 01:21:35,400
The damn ledge explained to them
in 13 paragraphs. 

1506
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:37,200
Why you're being too hard on 
yourself? 

1507
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:41,000
You look amazing and then 
hopefully they'll see the logic 

1508
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:46,500
behind my the way I'm talking to
them but I'm getting I'm going 

1509
01:21:46,500 --> 01:21:48,000
off into the weeds again. 
I do that. 

1510
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,300
Now I totally agree man. 
The grass always looks greener 

1511
01:21:50,300 --> 01:21:52,100
on the other side especially 
like when you're in a certain 

1512
01:21:52,100 --> 01:21:54,900
phase like when you're at the at
the end of a cutting phase. 

1513
01:21:54,900 --> 01:21:56,900
Like all you can think about is 
getting into your bulking phase 

1514
01:21:56,900 --> 01:21:58,800
and as soon as you get in too 
much of a surplus and you're 

1515
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,000
like a little bit fluffier but 
you're hitting new PR. 

1516
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,200
You're like man, I can't wait to
get into another cut. 

1517
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,100
It's like people never wanted 
fully embrace the phase. 

1518
01:22:06,100 --> 01:22:10,300
They're in Exactly. 
They, they never want to pull a.

1519
01:22:10,300 --> 01:22:15,700
I mean, I went to I'm 15 weeks 
out from my first competition, 

1520
01:22:15,700 --> 01:22:18,900
and then I go to Nationals a 
month after that. 

1521
01:22:18,900 --> 01:22:22,900
So I've got a national qualifier
on June the 19th, and that I've 

1522
01:22:22,900 --> 01:22:27,000
got Masters Nationals in 
Pittsburgh, on, I believe it's 

1523
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:31,300
June the 23rd. 
So, when I made that shift 

1524
01:22:31,300 --> 01:22:34,300
where, you know, I went through 
my best, what, I call gain 

1525
01:22:34,300 --> 01:22:37,200
phase, I believe in my life, and
I'm stunned. 

1526
01:22:37,700 --> 01:22:39,900
I was able to do that at 52 
years old, you know, how that 

1527
01:22:39,900 --> 01:22:41,900
works muscle memory muscle 
maturity? 

1528
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:44,100
You know, it all builds up over 
the years. 

1529
01:22:44,100 --> 01:22:47,600
So I was very, very pleased with
what, the level I was able to 

1530
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,100
take my physique but then, you 
know, I got up to my greatest 

1531
01:22:51,100 --> 01:22:54,900
body weight of all time without 
being fat because of a ketogenic

1532
01:22:54,900 --> 01:22:57,500
principles that I use back in 
the 90s. 

1533
01:22:57,500 --> 01:23:00,400
If I got to 240 pounds, I'd have
been a fatass. 

1534
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:03,400
Yep. 
Ketogenic principles that I've 

1535
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:06,700
used in adopted. 
I'm able to get to 240 pounds 

1536
01:23:06,700 --> 01:23:10,700
and still Have lightly visible 
abdominals but holy crap, you 

1537
01:23:10,700 --> 01:23:14,600
know, you've been there. 
So you know, then you make that 

1538
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:17,700
shift into, okay, I'm cutting. 
Now, I've done the math. 

1539
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:21,700
So now it's time to taper and 
make that transition. 

1540
01:23:21,700 --> 01:23:25,000
And then when you make that 
transition every week basically 

1541
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,100
brings something slightly 
different slightly new as you do

1542
01:23:28,100 --> 01:23:32,100
the calculations bringing you 
into that first show, and what's

1543
01:23:32,100 --> 01:23:33,400
the first thing you start 
thinking? 

1544
01:23:33,500 --> 01:23:36,700
I'm shrinking, I'm getting 
small, you know, even though 

1545
01:23:36,700 --> 01:23:39,600
you're looking Better because 
you're chiseling away the body 

1546
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:41,600
fat. 
We're not filling out the shirts

1547
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:43,300
like you did. 
You don't, you're not the big 

1548
01:23:43,300 --> 01:23:47,100
guy in the gym anymore, like, 
all damn, I'm shrinking and I 

1549
01:23:47,100 --> 01:23:49,300
gone too hard. 
If I go too fast, don't need to 

1550
01:23:49,308 --> 01:23:51,200
slow it down. 
You know, do I need to eat a 

1551
01:23:51,208 --> 01:23:53,200
potato? 
You know, you know, and you 

1552
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,700
start questioning everything. 
So you just kind of surround 

1553
01:23:56,700 --> 01:23:59,900
yourself with good people. 
Have that second set of eyes. 

1554
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,400
That guy that I mentioned when 
we first started talking, but 

1555
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:07,100
seems like hours ago, still 
helps me to this. 

1556
01:24:07,300 --> 01:24:10,400
Stay the guy that got me into 
training million. 

1557
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:19,100
Back into back in 1993, still 
walks into this gym today and on

1558
01:24:19,100 --> 01:24:21,100
Fridays and said, all right, 
take a shirt off. 

1559
01:24:21,100 --> 01:24:24,900
Let's have a look at you. 
He's now an NPC judge nice and 

1560
01:24:25,700 --> 01:24:28,200
he'll walk in and say all right,
you know what I'm here and I'm 

1561
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:31,000
going to take my damn shirt off 
and I'll take my shirt off and 

1562
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:32,900
I'll walk through my mandatory 
poses. 

1563
01:24:32,900 --> 01:24:36,500
And you'll say, you know, very 
very calmly, you're good. 

1564
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:39,000
I like this, that's looking good
there. 

1565
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,100
You have more density in your 
back, your lat. 

1566
01:24:41,300 --> 01:24:43,400
A little wider I like the 
striations in. 

1567
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,700
Yeah, I like the separation in 
your hams and quads things are 

1568
01:24:45,708 --> 01:24:47,300
going well. 
Okay, we're going to do this. 

1569
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,300
He's basically my opposing coach
because I suck at that. 

1570
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,800
So he's like okay so you're 
going to do these poses every 

1571
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:56,900
day for the next week you're 
going to hold each one for 30 

1572
01:24:56,900 --> 01:24:58,800
seconds. 
And when you're not looking 

1573
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:01,700
like, you're a quivering fish 
about to die, they're going to 

1574
01:25:01,708 --> 01:25:05,500
take that to 20 seconds and he 
holds me accountable to that and

1575
01:25:05,500 --> 01:25:07,000
he gives me that second pair of 
eyes. 

1576
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,300
So when I'm looking in the 
mirror and I see nothing but 

1577
01:25:09,300 --> 01:25:11,500
shit, he looks at me and says 
Yeah, yeah. 

1578
01:25:11,500 --> 01:25:12,900
You're coming along great. 
You're going to, you're going to

1579
01:25:12,900 --> 01:25:14,600
dominate this. 
You're doing awesome. 

1580
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,300
Don't change a damn thing. 
Don't screw this up. 

1581
01:25:17,300 --> 01:25:19,400
Don't be stupid. 
Okay, thanks. 

1582
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:22,900
And then he leaves and that's 
all I needed to hear and then I 

1583
01:25:22,907 --> 01:25:26,200
carry on carry on. 
So, yeah, that's huge. 

1584
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:28,700
Managed to Simply having some 
some additional accountability 

1585
01:25:28,700 --> 01:25:29,900
and a second set of eyes, to 
kind of. 

1586
01:25:29,907 --> 01:25:34,100
Give you give your put your mind
at ease is so so important. 

1587
01:25:34,700 --> 01:25:36,400
Oh, no doubt, man. 
No, doubt, you've been through 

1588
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:37,600
it. 
Well, shoot, man. 

1589
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,900
I could probably sit and talk to
any of the three hours or so. 

1590
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:43,400
But Respect for your time. 
We got to do around to them and 

1591
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,100
because I feel like there's so 
many questions that still have 

1592
01:25:45,100 --> 01:25:46,300
four. 
I love to get your take on some 

1593
01:25:46,300 --> 01:25:48,800
things, we need to like get 
together in person and do like a

1594
01:25:48,808 --> 01:25:51,200
full-blown workout, and then 
record a podcast. 

1595
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:56,600
Yeah, we need to get together, 
train, record, that shit and 

1596
01:25:56,600 --> 01:26:00,200
show those people out there. 
Hey, we may be a little off at 

1597
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,900
where the same damn, you know, 
or part of the same network were

1598
01:26:03,900 --> 01:26:08,200
part of the same club, we 
dominate the same space, and I 

1599
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:10,100
think that would be great for 
people to see. 

1600
01:26:10,100 --> 01:26:12,900
I would love that. 
And I would be honored to be 

1601
01:26:12,900 --> 01:26:15,600
back on your show at any time 
and hey I don't know if you knew

1602
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:19,600
this or not but I've got a 
little podcast myself and I 

1603
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,200
would be absolutely honored if 
you'd be my guest so I could 

1604
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:23,800
pick your shit apart. 
Yeah man. 

1605
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:25,800
Come in 100%. 
Let's just get it on the books 

1606
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,100
and make it happen. 
I would love that, man. 

1607
01:26:28,100 --> 01:26:30,600
I would love that and I really 
appreciate it. 

1608
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:32,500
It's phenomenal being on your 
show. 

1609
01:26:32,700 --> 01:26:34,400
Well, I'd certainly appreciate 
having you on here. 

1610
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:36,900
Where can people go to? 
Listen to your podcast and find 

1611
01:26:36,900 --> 01:26:40,100
more about you, man. 
It's the ketogenic bodybuilding 

1612
01:26:40,100 --> 01:26:43,100
podcast. 
It's on all major platforms, 

1613
01:26:43,100 --> 01:26:47,900
iTunes, Spotify, iHeartRadio 
Google all of it and everything 

1614
01:26:47,900 --> 01:26:51,300
you need to know about me. 
Is that Rob good one.com our, OB

1615
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:55,700
G OD wi n and that's got all my 
coaching on it. 

1616
01:26:55,700 --> 01:26:58,700
It's got links to everything 
that I do if you're not a member

1617
01:26:58,700 --> 01:27:01,400
of the ketogenic bodybuilding, 
Facebook group do a quick search

1618
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:04,700
on that the links are also on my
website would love to have you 

1619
01:27:04,700 --> 01:27:06,600
as a member. 
It's a great supportive group 

1620
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:10,500
and I just started Only because 
I'm old and I'm slow about these

1621
01:27:10,500 --> 01:27:12,600
things. 
There's now a ketogenic 

1622
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:15,900
bodybuilding Instagram page. 
It's just simply at ketogenic 

1623
01:27:15,900 --> 01:27:18,800
bodybuilding on Instagram. 
Would love to have some of your 

1624
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:21,000
listeners come over. 
I'd love some of their feedback 

1625
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:23,800
and because I know we're all 
kind of like minded and I would 

1626
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:26,700
just be honored to sort of 
merge. 

1627
01:27:26,700 --> 01:27:29,800
Our universe has 100% man. 
Well, I will certainly link out 

1628
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:33,400
to all of those sites and loved 
get on your podcast and we can 

1629
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:35,200
dive even deeper and I'll have 
you back on my show. 

1630
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:36,700
Will get a workout schedule, 
man. 

1631
01:27:38,100 --> 01:27:41,100
I would love that man. 
Please stay in touch and I think

1632
01:27:41,100 --> 01:27:44,800
I sent you my number so give me 
a call and give me your number 

1633
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:47,800
and we'll connect and I would 
love to continue some of these 

1634
01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:49,800
conversations. 
That sounds great to me man. 

1635
01:27:49,900 --> 01:27:38,900
Take care of I would love that 
man. 

1636
01:27:38,900 --> 01:27:42,600
Please stay in touch and I think
I sent you my number so give me 

1637
01:27:42,608 --> 01:27:46,600
a call and give me your number 
and we'll connect and I would 

1638
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:48,600
love to continue some of these 
conversations. 

1639
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:50,600
That sounds great to me man. 
Take care of