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Hello, ladies and gents Roberts.
Exclusive s.com to they have 

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special guest, dr. 
Chris Palmer On the Line, dr. 

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Chris Palmer is a Harvard 
psychiatrist and he just 

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finished writing a book called 
brain energy, where he Dives 

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deep into looking at 
neurological disorders. 

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As a result of metabolic 
dysfunction, this is something 

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that I'm very passionate about 
something that I've probably all

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of us have dealt with in some 
form or fashion. 

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Family members having dealt with
depression schizophrenia OCD 

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just mood disorder. 
Orders linked to metabolic 

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dysfunction. 
So we Dove deep into his 

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theories behind. 
What the cause of this is, what 

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are some possible solutions. 
What lifestyle factors we can 

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incorporate to mitigate this 
risk? 

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I thoroughly enjoy the 
conversation. 

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I've got a ton of respect for 
dr. 

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Palmer and I learned a ton. 
So without further Ado, sit back

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relax and do the podcast with 
dr. 

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Chris Palmer. 
And we are live, dr. 

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Chris Palmer. 
How are you, sir? 

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I am. 
Well, how are you? 

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I am doing wonderfully. 
Well, myself cannot complain. 

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I have, I met you at the Hard to
Kill Summit, that Jamie Seaman 

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hosted, and I absolutely loved 
your presentation. 

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I love to kind of dive deeper 
into. 

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I'm assuming your new book is 
kind of a deeper dive into many 

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of the topics that you were 
touching during the 

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presentation, correct? 
In some ways. 

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Yes. 
And in some ways, even bigger 

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some ways, even if in some ways 
even bigger. 

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So this yeah, I know the book is
kind of it looks at all of the 

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science that has been 
accumulated in the mental health

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field for the past 100 years and
tries to put put it together in 

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one coherent way. 
And at the end of the day, the 

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conclusion that I have come to 
that I think Think the science 

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clearly leads to did actually 
mental disorders. 

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Are metabolic disorders of the 
brain and that leads to entirely

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new ways to understand Mental 
Illness, but it also leads to 

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entirely new ways to treat it. 
When did that shift in? 

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I mean, is that pretty well 
agreed upon accepting within 

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your sphere of influence? 
Or is there a lot of controversy

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around that belief? 
Oh, there's going to be so much 

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controversy of, but, but as I 
said, but the research 

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connecting it. 
Well, let me, let me take a step

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back. 
So, right now, if you ask any 

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leading psychiatrists or 
neuroscientist, what causes 

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mental illness, They're going to
kind of shrug their shoulders 

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and say, you know what, that's a
really great question. 

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And it's complicated and no one 
knows for sure. 

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And what they'll say is that, 
but we do know risk factors, and

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they lump into biological 
psychological and social risk 

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factors or factors involved and 
that includes things like 

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genetics or, you know, 
neurotransmitters hormones 

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inflammation but also Logical 
and social things. 

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Trauma stress, but if you ask 
them, well how do all those 

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things fit together? 
And how exactly do they lead to 

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mental illness? 
The prevailing answer right now 

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is that no one knows. 
And that is one of the reasons 

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why we struggle so much in the 
mental health field, is because 

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right now, nobody can say for 
sure what a mental illness is or

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what causes it, and more 
importantly, although we have 

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many treatments to offer people.
The hard reality is that they 

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don't work or at least not fully
and durably for the majority of 

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people. 
And so, you know, for people 

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suffering from schizophrenia and
bipolar disorder, you all know 

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or if you know anybody with 
those disorders, you already 

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know. 
Yeah, our current treatments are

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definitely falling short for 
those people. 

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But even with bread and butter 
depression. 

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The majority of people who get 
treatment for depression, do not

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get all the way better and stay 
all the way better over time. 

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So to give you an example, one 
study followed people with 

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depression for 12 years and 
looked at well how exactly how 

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many of them are getting all the
way better and staying all the 

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way better. 
And what that study found was 

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that only 10% of the people 
getting treatment for 

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depression, we're getting all 
the way better and staying 

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better. 
So what that mean, what that 

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means is that people have to 
switch medications, they have to

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up their medications, they have 
to add Psychotherapy or other 

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treatments because the 
depression keeps coming back 

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out. 
And I feel like correct me if 

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I'm wrong here but I feel like 
up to now or maybe largely now 

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as well. 
People have placed this massive 

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separation between the brain and
the body like people. 

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When they look at this orders 
physical, you know, implications

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that they look at the body, they
look at things from it, you 

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know, the neck down in the neck 
up, like, they don't like to 

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think of things in them being 
interconnected. 

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I feel like that's kind of the 
general consensus. 

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Like, people don't often times 
see them as being, you know. 

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Directly correlated and 
connected when it comes to 

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proper brain, health and 
function or a logical function 

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and everything going on south of
the neck. 

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That is absolutely true. 
And, you know, I in many ways, 

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it kind of made sense, we know 
that mental illness is a 

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neurological illnesses, largely 
reside in the brain. 

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So it kind of makes sense that 
researchers would focus on the 

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brain and try to figure out what
the hell's going on there. 

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What like, what is, what is 
going on with the brain? 

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And why is it malfunctioning And
I think one of the biggest 

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complications in our field is 
that the brain is such a 

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complicated organ. 
Hmm. 

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And and the reality is we don't 
even we barely know the basics 

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about how it actually functions 
how neurons function and all the

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support cells. 
We are, we are only beginning to

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understand how the brain 
functions. 

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And and I think that's part of 
the complication is that 

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researchers have assumed well in
order to solve the puzzle of 

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mental illness. 
We first have to figure out 

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exactly and precisely how the 
brain works and once we do that,

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then we'll be able to figure out
what's wrong. 

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And the reality is we are 
probably hundreds of years away 

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from actually knowing everything
that we would need to know under

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that model. 
But the really great news is 

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that when you do an assessment 
of all of the research that's 

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been done, You actually start to
see precisely what you were 

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talking about, it way these 
disorders that we usually think 

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of as body disorders like heart 
attacks or diabetes. 

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Those disorders actually have 
strong relationships and people 

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with mental illness and they end
up being bi-directional 

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relationships. 
And what that means is that, if 

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I look at a group of people with
heart attacks, they're much more

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likely to develop symptoms of 
mental illness, like depression.

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For instance, everybody look at 
a group of people with 

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depression, they're more likely 
to have heart attacks. 

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Same goes for diabetes, same 
goes for strokes, same goes for 

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obesity, actually, just obesity,
plain old obesity, people who 

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are obese, are more likely to 
develop a mental disorder and 

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people with mental disorders, 
are more likely to become obese.

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and when we let you know that 
those were some of the clues 

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that I started to pursue when I 
was trying to better understand 

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mental illness and what might be
causing it And when you do a 

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deep dive into all of those 
disorders, there's actually only

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one way to connect them all and 
in some ways, I would call it 

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two ways. 
So the overarching way is, they 

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are all metabolic disorders. 
But if people ask like well what

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does that mean? 
But it really means is that 

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there are problems in the way 
mitochondria function in cells. 

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Gotcha, I'm assuming that 
correlation has always existed 

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but it's only been here recently
that people like yourself have 

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been connecting those dots and 
looking at it from that angle. 

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I mean, what has been the angle 
that that people have taken up? 

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To this point, just simply 
separating the two and looking 

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at all the neurological 
disorders and entity in and of 

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itself. 
Well. 

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You know, I think a lot of 
researchers and certainly the 

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overwhelming majority of 
clinicians. 

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Either shrug their shoulders and
say no one knows it's all 

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complicated. 
Some researchers have their 

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particular passions like it's 
psychological or you know, it's 

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due to upbringing and Trauma in 
childhood or is due to, you 

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know, a specific hormonal 
imbalance. 

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There are there psychiatrist who
specializes in women's mental 

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health and they're focused on 
preventing and progesterone and 

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the roles they play in mental 
illness. 

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But I think all of those 
specialists. 

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I understand that. 
Well, I'm just focused on one 

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aspect of mental health but I 
know that what I'm doing doesn't

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apply to everybody with a mental
disorder. 

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There have been researchers, you
know, I would not have been able

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to write the book that I wrote 
without all of this pioneering 

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research by other people. 
So, so in many ways I'm just 

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kind of standing up on their 
shoulders and putting it 

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together in a unique way that I 
think actually puts it all 

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together in a logical coherent 
and rational way But other 

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researchers have definitely, you
know, have definitely said that 

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mental disorders are related to 
metabolic problems and or 

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mitochondria and interestingly 
that research goes back over 80 

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years. 
So in the 1940s, we had research

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showing that people with bipolar
disorder and schizophrenia are 

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more likely to have signs of 
insulin resistance. 

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And there are more likely to 
have problems or abnormalities 

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in lactate metabolism. 
And so, for any people who are 

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really into the science of 
metabolic problems, you know 

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that those are kind of Hallmarks
of metabolic problems, both 

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lactate and insulin resistance. 
And again, that research goes 

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back to the 1940s by, by the 
time we the 1990s rolled around 

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researchers were doing all these
brain scans on people with 

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mental illness. 
And most people have heard of 

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these scans, they include things
like functional, MRI are pet, 

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scans are spect scans. 
All these other scams guess with

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all of those cans are measuring 
their all measuring brain 

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metabolism. 
And so, those researchers are 

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going to hear my theory at first
glance and say, well, duh, Chris

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Paul are we've known that for 
decades like everybody's known 

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that the brains of people with 
mental illness, are kind of 

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metabolically different, but I 
don't think they necessarily 

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recognize that those metabolic 
differences are actually the 

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root cause of the mental 
illness. 

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I think that they saw them as 
just side effects of whatever 

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was causing the mental illness. 
So there's some unknown factor 

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causing mental illness and it is
just contributing to these 

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metabolic differences. 
What I am arguing Is that the 

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metabolic differences are? 
In fact the core problem, they 

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are the root problem of mental 
illness. 

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And it's, it's actually not 
nearly as complicated to figure 

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out. 
Once you, once you see the big 

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picture, like once you see the 
forest from the trees is 

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actually not nearly as 
complicated. 

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As I think many researchers have
assumed. 

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It would be. 
Yeah. 

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I feel like, you know, looking 
at it, through the lens of it 

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being in a metabolic issue, 
makes a lot of sense. 

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I read Sam apples book ravenous 
had him on the podcast. 

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We're diving into Otto Warburg 
and his metabolic. 

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Research on cancer cell growth 
Warburg effect. 

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And he was under the impression 
that a lot of This research on, 

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you know, cancer being a 
metabolic disease was, was kind 

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of put on, hold to some degree 
because of all the compelling 

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research and just excitement 
towards genetics in like the 

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Human Genome Project. 
When all that started becoming 

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Paramount, I would imagine 
something similar has happened 

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with regard to looking at these 
neurological disorders and 

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people kind of sidestepping, it 
being a metabolic dysfunction 

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Can't more so from a genetic and
epigenetic standpoint as well. 

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Absolutely 100%. 
So, you know, and and again once

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again, there's good reason for 
that. 

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So one of the things that we 
know with certainty is that many

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mental disorders run and family.
So if both of your parents had 

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schizophrenia, there's a much 
higher likelihood that you're 

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00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,100
also going to have 
schizophrenia. 

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Same goes with bipolar disorder,
or ADHD or A diagnosis. 

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And so, for the most part, 
researchers assumed will, that 

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means it must be genetic. 
And so when we map the Human 

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Genome Project, everybody 
assumed we were going to have me

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remember, Oculus things 
happening in the mental health 

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field, because they were finally
once and for all get to figure 

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out exactly what genes are 
defective in all of these people

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00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,700
and maybe we can use that basic 
science information to come up 

231
00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:17,500
with more effective. 
Treatments. 

232
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,300
Maybe we could even prevent 
these disorders or even cure 

233
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:25,700
these disorders. 
It is the end of the day. 

234
00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:29,400
What they found? 
Is that there is no, there are 

235
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:37,000
no genes that confer any 
significant degrees of risk in 

236
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,800
the majority of people who have 
these disorders. 

237
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,800
Instead, there are thousands of 
genes, that confer tiny amounts 

238
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,600
of risk, usually less than one 
percent increased risk. 

239
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:58,100
And so thousands of genes that 
confer tiny amounts, Of risk. 

240
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,800
All much more importantly, is 
that there's no one gene for 

241
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,900
anyone disorder not even one. 
So, we would assume that, you 

242
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:14,200
know, schizophrenia is different
than bipolar disorder. 

243
00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:18,700
So there must be schizophrenia 
genes and there must be 

244
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:24,500
different, bipolar jeans. 
But it turns out that's not true

245
00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:28,800
at all. 
That the genes that do exist, 

246
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:34,300
that confer risk confer risk for
many psychiatric and often 

247
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:40,300
metabolic disorders. 
So one gene can confer risk for 

248
00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:44,300
bipolar disorder but also 
schizophrenia and also 

249
00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:50,700
depression and also alcoholism 
and also epilepsy, maybe even 

250
00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:55,100
obesity. 
The one Zine can confer risk for

251
00:16:55,100 --> 00:17:00,900
numerous different disorders and
so the genetic information that 

252
00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:05,900
we have make no mistake is 
invaluable because that research

253
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:11,300
has been done and it's given us,
clear answers, but the answers 

254
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:13,800
are not at all what we expected 
them to be. 

255
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,900
The answers are that mental 
disorders, even ones, like 

256
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:23,200
depression and schizophrenia are
actually not so different from 

257
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,700
each other. 
After all. 

258
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:33,800
And the answer largely is that 
genes don't explain most mental 

259
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,100
disorders in the overwhelming 
majority of people. 

260
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:42,700
Which if we if we use it as a 
segue to talk about looking 

261
00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:46,600
through mental disorders, as a 
result of metabolic dysfunction,

262
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,400
like, like pull the curtain back
on. 

263
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,500
What? 
That entails exact like, I hear 

264
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:55,100
that and I feel like that is 
empowering because unlike, you 

265
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:58,200
know, your genetics, which you 
don't really have a direct hand 

266
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,500
in your kind of just what your 
parents gave you. 

267
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,700
I feel like when you looked at 
to the lens with being a 

268
00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:05,400
metabolic dysfunction, it's 
somewhat empowering because then

269
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,500
you have much more control over 
your environmental factors. 

270
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:10,100
What you eat what. 
You're But the day-to-day, and 

271
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:13,200
that's going to have a pretty 
profound effect on whether or 

272
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,700
not these, these you're able to 
mitigate the adverse effects of 

273
00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:26,500
these dysfunctions. 100%, I feel
exactly the same way and That is

274
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:33,500
the thing. that has been 
shocking to me, and Because it 

275
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:37,700
is completely upended the way I 
think about mental disorders, 

276
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,400
even ones like, bipolar or 
schizophrenia. 

277
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:49,600
Hmm, But also ones like OCD are 
even PTSD or depression or 

278
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,900
anxiety that these disorders, 
represent the brain 

279
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,600
malfunctioning in a metabolic 
way. 

280
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,900
And what it means is that we can
use metabolic strategies. 

281
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:08,200
Exactly like you described diet,
exercise, but also things like 

282
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,400
sleep getting good sleep. 
Decreasing your stress. 

283
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:19,100
When you're able to do that, 
those are all improving 

284
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:22,200
metabolism, or addressing 
metabolic problems. 

285
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:28,000
And I actually, genuinely 
believe that we can help the 

286
00:19:28,008 --> 00:19:32,400
majority of Well probably not 
100 percent of people, but I 

287
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,500
think we can definitely help 
more than fifty percent of the 

288
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:38,700
people who are currently 
diagnosed with a chronic mental 

289
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,800
disorder. 
I think we can help them fully 

290
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:47,100
recover and even potentially get
off all of their medications and

291
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:52,900
be happy healthy productive 
citizens, human beings again. 

292
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:57,400
I wholeheartedly agree. 
If you're speaking with 

293
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,300
something like, what is your 
elevator pitch? 

294
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:01,100
So to speak. 
Like if you're talking with 

295
00:20:01,108 --> 00:20:06,400
somebody that has been diagnosed
with, you know, depression OCD 

296
00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:11,100
schizophrenia and they are a lay
person, that's not really. 

297
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,700
In the know when it comes to 
nutrition metabolism. 

298
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,800
All of this stuff. 
Like how would you talk to that 

299
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,300
person to let them know that? 
Hey, look, this is likely a 

300
00:20:20,308 --> 00:20:23,500
result of your lifestyle, 
factors your diet. 

301
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,700
It's your your activities, how 
would you word that for them to,

302
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,300
I guess give them like a 
Reader's Digest version of 

303
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,900
what's going on here, from 
molecular level and how they can

304
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:40,600
be empowered to fix it. 
The simple version is that 

305
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:46,100
mental disorders are metabolic 
disorders and under the in order

306
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:48,200
to understand what that means, 
you have to understand 

307
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:55,100
mitochondria. 
And mitochondria are influenced 

308
00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:59,300
by numerous things. 
They are definitely influenced 

309
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:03,700
by diet and exercise. 
They can also be influenced by 

310
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:09,100
trauma and stress. 
They can become dysfunctional 

311
00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:13,400
through environmental toxins. 
They can even become 

312
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,600
dysfunctional through some 
prescription medications 

313
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:19,700
including some of the 
medications, some of the very 

314
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:21,600
men. 
Occations that we prescribe to 

315
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:27,200
people with psychiatric 
disorders and so you know, 

316
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,000
something like an environmental 
toxin. 

317
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,900
I want to just point out that's 
not necessarily anybody's fall 

318
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,900
forgetting that. 
They probably didn't know they 

319
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,900
they may have done nothing, you 
know, there may have been 

320
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,100
nothing. 
They could have done to avoid 

321
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:52,500
exposure to that toxin But once 
that happens, then they can 

322
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:56,900
develop metabolic dysfunction. 
So, another clear example just 

323
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,300
to just to give you an example 
that kind of lets people 

324
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:01,400
completely off the hook from 
lifestyle. 

325
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:06,400
We know that infections across 
the board infections are 

326
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,500
associated with higher rates of 
mental illness After The 

327
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:14,400
Infection, and this is 
particularly strong in children,

328
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,400
but it, but it can start even 
with your mother when she was 

329
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,300
pregnant with you. 
If she got an infection with a 

330
00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:27,900
virus or a bacteria that affects
that child and leads to higher 

331
00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:32,100
rates of mental illness in those
children, Now, an infection is 

332
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,000
no one's fault. 
Nobody set out to do anything to

333
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,000
get an infection. 
For the most part, people can't 

334
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,200
help it, but that infection can 
take a toll on your metabolism. 

335
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,500
once people understand the 
science of metabolism and 

336
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:51,100
mitochondria though and once you
understand that's kind of 

337
00:22:51,108 --> 00:22:55,700
complicated and I dumb it down 
in the BOK to I really try to 

338
00:22:55,700 --> 00:23:01,100
make it understandable to as 
many people as possible but once

339
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:06,300
you understand what the root of 
the problem is Then we can talk 

340
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:11,900
about Solutions and even if you 
have a metabolic problem because

341
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:17,900
you got covid and now you have 
long covid which is resulting in

342
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:22,400
symptoms of depression or brain 
fog as our mental symptoms. 

343
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,800
So that person is going to say 
well, it's I wasn't eating a bad

344
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,900
diet. 
The reason I have my symptoms is

345
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:32,400
because I got an infection with 
probe it. 

346
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,500
I would say if you actually 
understand the detailed science,

347
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:44,900
changing your diet and or 
changing your exercise routine 

348
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:48,800
and or paying attention to your 
sleep, or managing, your use of 

349
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,900
substances, can all play a role 
in your recovery. 

350
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:58,600
So even if you were somebody who
is relatively healthy 

351
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,700
metabolically and mentally 
speaking, and then you get covid

352
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:07,100
and you have a horrible, severe 
case of it and it really beats 

353
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:13,400
you down, you can Bite your way 
out of that using metabolic and 

354
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,500
lifestyle strategies. 
Now, obviously, as you hinted at

355
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:23,700
or alluded to a lot of people 
are, in fact, developing 

356
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:27,000
metabolic problems because of 
their diets or because they 

357
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,100
aren't exercising, or because 
they aren't prioritizing an 

358
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:35,600
adequate amount of sleep or 
because they're over using a lot

359
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,000
of drugs and alcohol or other 
things. 

360
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,200
And this solution is pretty 
obvious for those people. 

361
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,400
We need to clean up your diet. 
You need to start prioritizing 

362
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,300
sleep. 
You need to stop using all the 

363
00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:54,800
substances, all of that. 
Is there much consensus as to? 

364
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,800
What is the don't want to say 
optimal or ideal died? 

365
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,700
Because everybody's going to 
come at me from an individuality

366
00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:04,500
standpoint. 
But is there a general consensus

367
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:08,400
as to what diet is likely going 
to contribute to the least 

368
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,600
significant amount of metabolic 
dysfunction so right now I don't

369
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,800
think there is a consensus on 
that and as you say we have to 

370
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,500
work with individuals and, you 
know, individuals have to be 

371
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:27,900
willing to do whatever diet we 
want to prescribe I think that, 

372
00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:32,700
you know, one of the things that
this Theory raises though is 

373
00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:38,700
that we need a tremendous amount
of research funding for diet for

374
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:45,700
dietary interventions for mental
illnesses, the the diet that I 

375
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:50,500
have been most focused on. 
As a professional is, I've been 

376
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:57,400
using the ketogenic diet To help
people and the reason I'm 

377
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:00,700
focused on the ketogenic diet. 
You know, I came across it just 

378
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,500
by chance. 
Random chance. 

379
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,300
Hmm. 
And, and the thing that set me 

380
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:09,600
actually on the path of all of 
this work was when I had a 

381
00:26:09,608 --> 00:26:13,500
patient with schizophrenia use, 
the ketogenic diet just to try 

382
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:17,300
to lose some weight. 
And his symptoms. 

383
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:22,500
Dramatically improved. 
His auditory hallucinations his 

384
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:27,000
delusions. 
Were dramatically reduced for 

385
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,800
him. 
They didn't go completely away, 

386
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:34,600
but they were like 95 percent 
down I've seen many other 

387
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:40,200
patients subsequent to him, who 
did have chronic schizophrenia 

388
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,800
or chronic bipolar disorder who 
are now in full and complete 

389
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,300
remission on a ketogenic diet 
And it's not that I think 

390
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:54,000
everybody needs to be on a 
ketogenic diet, but I think the 

391
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,500
ketogenic diet has tremendous 
healing potential especially 

392
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:00,800
when it comes to metabolism in 
mitochondria. 

393
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:07,900
And and I have really seen some 
miraculous results. 

394
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,400
We, you know, we do have five 
controlled trials underway, 

395
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,600
already of the ketogenic diet 
for serious mental illness. 

396
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,600
So, I'm particularly passionate 
and hopeful about the ketogenic 

397
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,900
diet, but I think that, for some
people, like one kid that I 

398
00:27:26,908 --> 00:27:31,200
described in the book, The only 
dietary intervention I did with 

399
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:37,300
him was actually to remove sugar
during the school week and we 

400
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:40,800
also started using light therapy
in the morning for him. 

401
00:27:41,300 --> 00:27:44,400
But those two things, light 
therapy in the morning and get 

402
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,400
rid of sugar during the school 
week. 

403
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:51,400
Those two things were enough to 
completely change the course of 

404
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,500
his life. 
Is school performance and his 

405
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:59,800
mental health And so, sometimes 
a fairly straightforward, simple

406
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,400
obvious intervention. 
Like let's get rid of all the 

407
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,600
sugar can work, but I think for 
other people, especially people 

408
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,200
who, you know, have 
schizophrenia or severe, bipolar

409
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,800
disorder, I think those people 
are going to need probably more 

410
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,500
than just getting rid of sugar, 
they're probably going to need 

411
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:21,600
some kind of a ketogenic diet 
intervention, at least early on 

412
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:26,600
What's interesting? 
I used to have, I used to suffer

413
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,900
from just debilitating OCD like 
obsessive compulsive disorder, 

414
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:34,900
like Howard Hughes level shit 
and I adopt the ketogenic diets 

415
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:42,600
in 2015 and it has gone. 
I mean, it's definitely not 

416
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,600
nearly as rampant as it was back
then and I still have some 

417
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,700
traits of OCD but I think it's 
kind of more habitual at this 

418
00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:52,700
point more so than like, you 
know, Logical. 

419
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,900
But like, just for me speaking 
and notably on that, I've 

420
00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:59,900
noticed a tremendous positive 
Improvement after adopting. 

421
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:02,800
Can you drink diet with OCD 
specific at the time? 

422
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,400
I had no idea, they would 
possibly be interrelated. 

423
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,300
But I've noticed that 
personally, Yeah, you're and 

424
00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:14,500
you're not alone. 
I have several patients, who 

425
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:20,300
some of them actually had pretty
crippling OCD and the ketogenic 

426
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:26,500
diet dramatically reduce their 
symptoms and with one or two of 

427
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:30,000
them as far as we can tell put 
their symptoms into remission. 

428
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:36,500
I you know, I'm happy to share a
personally that I to I had OCD 

429
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:42,500
when I was a kid and it 
persisted into early adulthood 

430
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:48,100
and when I went on a ketogenic 
diet I definitely notice 

431
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:55,500
significant benefits. 
And at this point, now, I really

432
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:58,100
don't have any signs or symptoms
of OCD. 

433
00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:02,100
Like, I don't even have a twinge
of it, like I can do that. 

434
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:06,500
Things that I would never have 
been able to do before terms of 

435
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:09,300
touching things that I might 
have considered dirty or 

436
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:12,000
contaminated or gross or 
whatever. 

437
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:19,400
Yeah, I I don't, I don't even 
have a hint of it anymore. 

438
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,800
Was that personal aspect of your
life? 

439
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,700
One of the motivating factors 
for you pursuing this study. 

440
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,400
You know, it's interesting 
because at that point in time. 

441
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,600
I was less concerned about the 
OCD I, so I, when I was in my 

442
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:47,400
20s, I was diagnosed with 
metabolic syndrome and I so I 

443
00:30:47,408 --> 00:30:53,400
had pre diabetes, high blood 
pressure, horrible triglycerides

444
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,200
like through the roof over 300 
and really low HDL cholesterol 

445
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:02,700
and I had a bit of a gut. 
So I pretty much had it all. 

446
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:10,800
And and I was doing a low fat 
diet and exercising regularly 

447
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:16,800
I'd finished medical school. 
I was now doing residency and I 

448
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,800
was really doing my best to take
care of myself. 

449
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,800
I was not a lazy slacker, I was 
not eating junk food, I was 

450
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,000
exercising, I was diligent about
following this super low fat 

451
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,600
diet and those things were just 
not doing it for me. 

452
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,300
And and at some point I decided 
Added to try at that point. 

453
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:39,400
It was called the Atkins diet, 
and I decided to try it in a 

454
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,400
last-ditch effort to try to, you
know, before my doctor forced me

455
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,100
on medications and you know, 
within three months my metabolic

456
00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:51,000
syndrome was gone. 
But the bigger thing that I 

457
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:58,000
noticed was Improvement in my 
mood and energy, you know, 

458
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,600
concentration and confidence and
my sleep, like all of those 

459
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:08,500
things got Dramatically better. 
And You know, at that point, I 

460
00:32:08,508 --> 00:32:10,300
didn't even really pair it with 
OCD. 

461
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:12,900
I assumed these are all 
different disorders and they all

462
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:17,200
have must have different causes 
but I didn't even pair it with 

463
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,800
the OCD. 
I was more focused on my mood 

464
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:26,000
and sleep and all of that. 
And but that was that experience

465
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000
actually, was the thing that set
me on this calf. 

466
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,600
I, you know, I started 
recommending the diet to friends

467
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,100
and family. 
They were a lot of them were 

468
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:39,400
noticing these mood. 
Benefits and you know, mental 

469
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,000
benefits and then I started 
using it in patients with 

470
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,700
treatment-resistant depression 
and sure enough, I started 

471
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:52,600
seeing dramatic benefits and 
some of them but it was, it was 

472
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,000
that in it was that patient in 
2016 who had schizoaffective 

473
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,700
disorder, who got dramatically 
better from it. 

474
00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:06,400
That when, when I saw that, I 
could no longer kind of keep 

475
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,200
this quiet. 
Quiet because I was kind of on 

476
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,700
the down low with it. 
Like I'm a Harvard psychiatrist.

477
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:15,200
I can't be talking about a diet 
to treat mental illness. 

478
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,000
That sounds like a, you get 
fired for saying something like 

479
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,900
that. 
That's like, that's a quack for 

480
00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:21,700
you. 
Yeah. 

481
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:27,700
And and as you know, and many 
others, know a lot of doctors 

482
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:31,100
and the low carb and keto 
Community have, in fact, been 

483
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:35,400
fired or threatened with being 
fired or lost their licenses and

484
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,500
I was well aware of that. 
I I want to be one of them, I 

485
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,800
was just like I'll just I'll 
just quietly help the patients 

486
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,200
in front of me and I don't need 
to make noise about this. 

487
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,500
It's just you know it's just 
depression but when I saw it 

488
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:52,500
work for schizophrenia, I was 
kind of like okay, this is way 

489
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:55,500
too important. 
This is this represents like a 

490
00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:59,200
breakthrough in Takaya tree. 
Like I can't keep quiet about 

491
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,600
this because how many other 
people might benefit from it? 

492
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:06,800
And and yeah. 
And then it just snowballed 

493
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,400
because is my first thing was 
like, wait, but this doesn't 

494
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,100
even make sense. 
Nobody's, even gonna believe 

495
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:15,600
this because you know, the keto 
diet is good for weight loss. 

496
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:19,699
A lot of people know that keto 
diets also good for type 2, 

497
00:34:19,699 --> 00:34:23,699
diabetes. 
Keto diets getting study for 

498
00:34:23,699 --> 00:34:27,199
Alzheimer's disease. 
Even and now I'm going to come 

499
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,100
out and say, it's good for 
depression and schizophrenia 

500
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:33,400
like that, that just sounds like
snake oil. 

501
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,199
There's no way in hell anybody's
gonna believe that. 

502
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,199
So so I have it. 
Go on this deep dive of the 

503
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:46,000
science, try to figure out Are 
all of these disorders somehow 

504
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,800
connected. 
And if they are exactly how, 

505
00:34:50,300 --> 00:34:54,400
like, how are they connected at 
the cellular level, and how can 

506
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,600
I explain this and understand 
this better? 

507
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,200
And what can it tell us about 
the cause of mental illness? 

508
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:08,200
and, I think when I finally 
figured it all out, it was it 

509
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,200
really was Way Beyond anything 
that I had ever imagined I could

510
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,500
do. 
It was way beyond anything I set

511
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:20,500
out to do. 
Who is really just random chance

512
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,300
that I made these observations 
over the you know over the last 

513
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:29,200
20 years. 
And I kept kind of accumulating 

514
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,200
these observing. 
Like that's funny or that's 

515
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,400
unusual or wow, that's weird. 
And and then I finally just got 

516
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,700
to a point where I'm like I 
gotta put all this shit together

517
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:42,600
is just too important. 
Well it's so like when you're 

518
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,100
talking about anything 
neurological, it's just, it's 

519
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:49,400
just so much Nuance to it. 
And like, when I think of my 

520
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,000
personal space with OCD and 
yours to, it sounds like like 

521
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,100
when you look at what you're 
consuming on, what you're 

522
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:56,200
putting on your plate to eat 
every single day. 

523
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,600
It's hard to see how that could 
be the primary driver as to why 

524
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,000
you have this aversion to 
touching things with germs in 

525
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,800
your case. 
Or for me, it was like my OCD 

526
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,900
kind of manifests itself in me 
having this fear of something 

527
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:13,300
bad happening to my loved ones. 
If I didn't do a certain thing 

528
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:15,500
for a certain number of 
repetitions, just weird stuff. 

529
00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:18,400
Like people that are 
experiencing that are going to 

530
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,700
have a hard time seeing how, 
what they're consuming on a 

531
00:36:21,707 --> 00:36:24,500
day-to-day basis is going to be 
the driving factor in those 

532
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,900
psychological thought. 
It's, you know. 

533
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,800
Absolutely, and well, and and 
here's the thing. 

534
00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:37,900
So this is one way, this is one 
area where I think I have a 

535
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:42,600
different perspective than maybe
some other people in the 

536
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,100
low-carbon Quito community. 
So, a lot of, a lot of people 

537
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:51,500
would assume that if the 
ketogenic diet can effectively 

538
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:57,000
treat it, You know, in this case
OCD then it must mean that what 

539
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,900
we were putting on our plate 
before was the cause of the OCD.

540
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,300
And I think in some cases that 
might be true. 

541
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,700
But I actually firmly believe 
that infections. 

542
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:17,500
Like we have an abundance of 
evidence over many many decades.

543
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,700
Infections. 
Can cause OCD. 

544
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:25,900
And everybody assumes, well, 
that must be some autoimmune 

545
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:29,100
disorder or something going on, 
like, the infection is and 

546
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:34,200
there's even a class of OCD it's
called and US related to 

547
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:41,900
streptococcal infections, where 
the thought it largely is. 

548
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:47,600
It's an autoimmune disorder to a
bacterium and those antibodies 

549
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,200
start attacking the brain and 
cause OCD symptoms. 

550
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:56,400
And you know, with other 
infections it might be the 

551
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,400
inflammation and so everybody's 
that's a big theory that 

552
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,400
everybody loves it brain 
inflammation. 

553
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,000
Brain inflammation is bad for 
you and it maybe it's causing 

554
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,900
these mental illnesses and what 
I'm here to say is, yeah, all of

555
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:17,400
those things are true. 
And even if somebody's OCD is 

556
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:23,100
due to an infection, the 
ketogenic diet can be a really 

557
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:26,700
powerful treatment. 
And why do I say that? 

558
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:32,300
I say it based on Decades of 
Neuroscience literature that we 

559
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:37,200
have in the epilepsy field. 
So it turns out that the 

560
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:43,000
ketogenic diet can affect 
neurotransmitter systems It 

561
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:49,700
reduces brain inflammation. 
It can stop chronic inflammatory

562
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:53,600
or autoimmune diseases in some 
cases. 

563
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,800
I've talked to some people who 
have put autoimmune disorders, 

564
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:02,600
not they haven't cured them but 
they have dramatically reduced, 

565
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,800
the symptoms of autoimmune 
disorders when they're in 

566
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,800
ketosis. 
And when they get out of 

567
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,300
ketosis, the sometimes those 
autoimmune disorders, come right

568
00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:17,500
back. 
But the ketogenic diet changes 

569
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:22,600
the gut microbiome, it changes, 
you know, gene expression, it 

570
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,200
does so many things. 
And so even if somebody 

571
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:37,500
developed a mental illness, 
Through a non dietary cause like

572
00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:44,200
trauma or an infection. 
Using a dietary strategy or I 

573
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,900
would say overall metabolic 
strategy can still be important 

574
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,200
and so an easy, another easy 
example of a metabolic treatment

575
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,700
would be exercised. 
So if so if somebody is 

576
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:02,000
relatively healthy, doesn't have
really serious, metabolic 

577
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,800
problem doesn't really have a 
serious mental illness. 

578
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:12,900
And ends up developing a mental 
illness for any reason exercise 

579
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:16,000
can be a really powerful 
treatment. 

580
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,500
Now, I wouldn't say that the 
primary cause of that person's 

581
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:23,000
mental illness was the fact that
they weren't exercising. 

582
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:26,000
Because there are plenty of 
people who don't exercise who 

583
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,100
don't have mental illnesses, 
right? 

584
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:32,200
But once you develop that 
metabolic disturbance in your 

585
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,400
brain, you can use exercise as a
powerful Intervention to 

586
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,500
correct, the metabolic problem 
that's occurring. 

587
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,900
And and I feel the same way 
about dietary strategies that 

588
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:50,700
you can use dietary strategies, 
to correct metabolic problems, 

589
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,300
even if a bad diet, wasn't the 
primary cause of your problem. 

590
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,000
And to be fair, you know, like 
you say, it may not have been 

591
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,000
the lack of exercise or the poor
diet. 

592
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,300
That was the Catalyst for that 
mental disorder. 

593
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:06,700
But if the infection for 
instance, was the lack of 

594
00:41:06,707 --> 00:41:10,300
exercise and poor diet, likely 
didn't bode well in preventing. 

595
00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:12,700
Our improving one's immune 
Health, to prevent that 

596
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:15,000
infection of take place in the 
first instance. 

597
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,700
Absolutely. 
I mean I think as a rule of 

598
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:22,100
thumb people who are following 
healthy diets. 

599
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:25,300
However, we wanted to find that 
and I would Define a healthy 

600
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:27,700
diet as a diet that confers 
Health. 

601
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:33,400
Oh, it's if your diet puts you 
and I think it's now, the eight 

602
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,000
percent of the u.s. population 
that does not have a metabolic 

603
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,000
problem. 
Then whatever diet you're 

604
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,200
following. 
I'm going to say keep following 

605
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,800
it because clearly it's working 
for you. 

606
00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:50,600
And if you're exercising, but as
a rule of thumb people who are 

607
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,500
Health following healthy diets, 
people who are exercising 

608
00:41:54,500 --> 00:42:02,400
regularly, they tend to be much 
more resilient to infections. 

609
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,400
They tend to be much more 
resilient to Major stressors or 

610
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,200
traumas and life. 
It doesn't make them. 

611
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,300
Invincible, all of us are 
vulnerable. 

612
00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:15,100
We're all living organisms. 
So that means we're all 

613
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:17,700
vulnerable. 
We're all going to die. 

614
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,500
So there's no, there's no 
immortality, there's no 

615
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:24,300
invincibility for anybody, no 
matter what you're doing. 

616
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,800
But but as a rule of thumb, if 
you're taking really good care 

617
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,500
of yourself, you are going to be
more resilient. 

618
00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:35,300
And that means, if you do get an
infection, you're more likely to

619
00:42:35,300 --> 00:42:38,700
bounce back. 
And we know this with certainty,

620
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:42,900
with covid for ends, we have so 
much data, the people who are 

621
00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:46,000
most vulnerable to experience it
today. 

622
00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:51,500
Dying from covid, Princeton. 
The number one group were the 

623
00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:56,000
elderly, the older you are the 
more metabolically frail. 

624
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,700
You are. 
We know that. 

625
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:04,700
Then the second group with the 
highest mortality or people with

626
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:12,600
schizophrenia, really? 
Yeah and and then after them 

627
00:43:13,100 --> 00:43:18,600
came, like people with metabolic
disorders, obesity type 2 

628
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:24,700
diabetes, Those people have much
higher mortality rates as well. 

629
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:28,000
Now, again, this this isn't all 
or nothing. 

630
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:33,000
You could have schizophrenia and
have gotten covid and maybe you 

631
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,300
fared just fine. 
And you could also be somebody 

632
00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:38,900
who's really met a quote-unquote
metabolically. 

633
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:42,900
Healthy got a horrible case of 
covid, maybe your immune system 

634
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:46,200
just wasn't up to the challenge 
and it ravaged, your body. 

635
00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:50,800
And you maybe some people may 
have died even though they were 

636
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,200
relatively healthy and I do 
know, one person in particular. 

637
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,600
I'm not going to name names but 
she was pretty vocal about it on

638
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,800
social media that, you know, 
somebody who is following a very

639
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,800
healthy diet. 
Had been a, I think a 

640
00:44:05,808 --> 00:44:11,800
professional athlete and got 
covid and really was set back 

641
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,600
from it. 
So you know, there's there are 

642
00:44:15,607 --> 00:44:19,600
no absolutes. it's But you're 
right, as a rule of thumb, if 

643
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,800
you're taking good care of 
yourself, you are going to be 

644
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,000
more resilient and you're going 
to be less likely to have 

645
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,600
illnesses. 
Now, I would imagine you're 

646
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,900
likely getting a lot of pushback
from conventional, wetter mess, 

647
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,500
Western medicine and you know 
the pharmacology companies on 

648
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:40,800
this because it's going to put 
the power in the person's hands 

649
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,200
largely as opposed to the drug 
producers hands. 

650
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,800
I know like for me personally 
Personally I've got, I've had 

651
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,900
several family members, this 
hits home quite a bit for me. 

652
00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:55,500
I've had several family members 
that several but a handful that 

653
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:58,900
have struggled with severe 
depression and when they're in 

654
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:02,700
that state it's like it's 
strange that they're not in the 

655
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:06,600
nutrition space they don't think
like you and I think they're 

656
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,000
just looking to fix the problem.
They go to the doctor, the 

657
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,200
doctor tells them it's a 
hormonal balance imbalance in 

658
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,600
their brain and they are you 
know they push on this Cascade 

659
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,400
of different drugs, ssris to try
and Fix this. 

660
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,700
It seems to work for a week or 
two and they changed the 

661
00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:24,400
formula. 
Is there any truth to this 

662
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,700
hormonal imbalance in these? 
These like I know what the cut 

663
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:31,600
when it comes to drugs, there's 
been some instances where it 

664
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,600
seems to make a positive 
Improvement, but often times 

665
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,700
more often than not, it seemed 
it doesn't really seem to move 

666
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:38,500
the needle forward. 
Any extensive Direction. 

667
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,800
Yeah. 
So you know, the most prevalent 

668
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,700
theory for mental illness right 
now is the at this chemical 

669
00:45:47,700 --> 00:45:53,700
imbalance Theory and the 
chemicals in that theory usually

670
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:55,800
are referring to 
neurotransmitters. 

671
00:45:56,300 --> 00:45:59,000
And so the cop, the common 
belief is that, you know, 

672
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,900
depression is due to a serotonin
deficiency. 

673
00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:06,700
And so, if you take a drug like 
Prozac or Zoloft or Paxil, then 

674
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:10,100
that'll boost your serotonin 
levels and that Make you feel 

675
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:14,500
better. 
And there are different 

676
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:17,000
neurotransmitters for different 
illnesses. 

677
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:23,500
You know, norepinephrine, maybe 
for ADHD dopamine, you know, is 

678
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:27,200
that driver and addiction? 
But dopamine dysregulation is 

679
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:33,600
also a driver in schizophrenia 
and bipolar And for the most 

680
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,500
part, A lot of people still 
believe that you know there was 

681
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:42,200
a paper that came out you know 
earlier this year that largely 

682
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,500
refuted all of that but that 
paper wasn't new research. 

683
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:50,400
That paper was a review, paper 
of research that has existed for

684
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:59,300
20 years and the author was 
simply kind of just putting it 

685
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:02,500
in everyone's face that you guys
all you. 

686
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:05,300
People who are saying these, you
know, depression is due to a 

687
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:08,200
chemical imbalance. 
It's not, we've got the 

688
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,200
evidence. 
We have tons of research on this

689
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,000
and there is no chemical 
imbalance, it doesn't exist. 

690
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:21,400
Now. 
Just because the chemical 

691
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,600
imbalance doesn't exist, doesn't
necessarily mean that ssris. 

692
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,300
Don't were at least for some 
people. 

693
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,900
I think they do work for some 
people and I've seen them more 

694
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,900
and I really have seen them 
more. 

695
00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:43,400
I don't say that. 
I don't say that lightly and I 

696
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,000
offer different explanations in 
brain energy. 

697
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:50,600
A about exactly how they're 
working. 

698
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:54,600
There's a lot of research that 
already exists that shows that 

699
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,200
some antidepressants actually 
can increase or enhance brain 

700
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,500
metabolism. 
And they are likely doing that 

701
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:04,500
through their effects on 
mitochondria. 

702
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:11,700
And and so, although the 
explanation for why ssris might 

703
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:16,500
work was clearly wrong. 
It doesn't take away from the 

704
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:20,700
fact that ssris do work for some
people. 

705
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,900
And I am not in any way trying 
to stand in the way of people's 

706
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:30,000
access to ssris if they are 
working for them. but as I 

707
00:48:30,008 --> 00:48:35,100
shared with you earlier, Of all 
comers who get treatment for 

708
00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:40,900
depression, only 10% get a 
sustained. 

709
00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:47,900
Remission of their depression. 
That means ssris are not working

710
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:54,200
or 90% of the people, they can 
reduce symptoms but they're not 

711
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,300
putting the illness into 
remission and they don't last 

712
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:04,500
long term for the majority of 
people And you know people think

713
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:10,000
that I'm being too pessimistic 
with that analysis like maybe 

714
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,700
you're one of the lucky people 
and you're on Prozac and it's 

715
00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:16,100
working beautifully for you. 
And you're like, who the hell's 

716
00:49:16,100 --> 00:49:19,600
is, Chris Palmer? 
Why is he being so negative? 

717
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,800
the reality is that depression 
is now the leading cause of 

718
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:29,000
disability in the United States 
and on the planet There are no 

719
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,200
medical disorders that are more 
disabling or that disabled more 

720
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,800
people than plain old 
depression. 

721
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:40,500
And it's not that these people 
are not getting treatment. 

722
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,200
These people are getting plenty 
of treatment. 

723
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,400
They are trying till after pill.
After pill, they are trying 

724
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,500
years or Decades of 
psychotherapy, they are trying 

725
00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:54,800
electroconvulsive therapy. 
They are trying transcranial 

726
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,600
magnetic stimulation, they're 
getting ketamine. 

727
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,600
Injections. 
Now they're all flocking to get 

728
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,400
psychedelics. 
And the reality is that they are

729
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:09,200
disabled, they can't work. 
They can't function because 

730
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,900
their depression is so bad. 
We clearly need new ways to 

731
00:50:13,900 --> 00:50:15,800
understand and treat mental 
illness. 

732
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:21,400
And you know Robert is you and I
know the solution is easier than

733
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,300
you all think. 
It's like it is within your 

734
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:29,600
reach right now today. 
We don't have to wait 30 years 

735
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,100
for somebody to figure out a 
brand new treatment. 

736
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:33,700
That's going to come out on 
patent. 

737
00:50:33,900 --> 00:50:36,200
We can do these things right now
today. 

738
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:42,100
Yeah, 1000% agree with you. 
I have it's hard having these 

739
00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:45,900
conversations people that don't 
I guess they just don't think 

740
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:48,600
it's that easy like my cousin. 
For instance who hadn't played a

741
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,200
bad prayer, she still has a 
really bad depression and he's, 

742
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,200
you know, trying these different
ssris on a regular basis and you

743
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,200
know, like when you stop and 
think about it, like 98 percent 

744
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:58,900
of the body's serotonin is 
producing the gut. 

745
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:02,300
Like you gotta get your 
digestive health and nutrition 

746
00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:06,000
dialed in in order to possibly 
hope to have you know, high 

747
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,300
functioning You know, chemical 
hormonal balance in the body and

748
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:12,200
the Brain. 
But just simply laying that out 

749
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,100
there. 
Like, people don't want to hear 

750
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,100
that people that are in their 
Darkest Hour, simply want to 

751
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:20,500
reach for a bottle of pills to 
fix the solution because they 

752
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:23,300
place that on so much emphasis. 
I don't know if it needs to be a

753
00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:27,100
shift in thinking on their part 
or just to shift in education. 

754
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:29,500
I don't really know what needs 
to happen. 

755
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:31,700
But when you look at it, like 
when you feel empowered in the 

756
00:51:31,700 --> 00:51:34,000
sense of look, what I consumed, 
what my day-to-day activities 

757
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,100
are, you know, making sure I get
quality sleep. 

758
00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:39,500
Like, if you die All those 
things in and still nothing's 

759
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:40,100
working. 
Then yeah. 

760
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:45,100
Maybe look towards the the, you 
know, antidepressants but it 

761
00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:47,600
makes no sense in my brain to 
reach for antidepressants 

762
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,400
before. 
If you're following a terrible 

763
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,800
diet, you're not getting any 
sleep. 

764
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,300
You're drinking alcohol 
consuming drugs, recreational 

765
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:58,000
drugs, and you're just not doing
the initial groundwork, 100% 

766
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,900
agree. 
And I think that I think that 

767
00:52:02,900 --> 00:52:05,900
the next step that I am 
certainly going to be 

768
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:09,100
passionately pursuing is 
education. 

769
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:14,000
Because right now, people like 
him are being told it's chemical

770
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,900
imbalance in your brain buddy. 
You? 

771
00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:20,100
Yeah exercise will be good if 
you if you if you want to be an 

772
00:52:20,100 --> 00:52:24,000
athlete and sure you can change 
your diet if you need to lose a 

773
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,300
few pounds. 
But depression don't have 

774
00:52:27,300 --> 00:52:30,000
anything to do with exercise or 
Diet. 

775
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,000
Depression is a chemical 
imbalance in your brain. 

776
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,300
It's neurotransmitters. 
Its serotonin. 

777
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:40,700
It's we know that we know that 
that we I'm a psychiatrist, I'm 

778
00:52:40,700 --> 00:52:44,400
a neuroscientist. 
We know that with certainty. 

779
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,600
And what I am here to say as a 
Harvard psychiatrist and 

780
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,400
neuroscientist is no, those 
people do not know that they are

781
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:58,100
full of shit. 
Yeah, and we need to call the 

782
00:52:58,100 --> 00:53:06,400
bullshit. and, The reality 
again, this isn't this is not an

783
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,900
ego battle as far as I'm 
concerned. 

784
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:14,900
Millions of lives are ruined and
devastated because people are 

785
00:53:14,900 --> 00:53:21,400
not being given accurate 
information and we need to give 

786
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,000
people accurate scientific 
information. 

787
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:28,500
We need to let people know, you 
know, all these pills you're 

788
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:31,800
taking, they actually are not 
working for the overwhelming. 

789
00:53:31,900 --> 00:53:36,000
I mean majority of people who 
are taking them so let's call 

790
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:43,300
bullshit on our treatments and 
let's get real and talk about 

791
00:53:43,300 --> 00:53:48,500
real solutions. 
And the reality is you know one 

792
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:52,300
of the biggest challenges is 
exactly what you brought up. 

793
00:53:52,300 --> 00:53:55,500
Well how are you going to get a 
depressed person to do a diet? 

794
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,300
How are you going to get a 
schizophrenic to go exercise? 

795
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:04,800
They're all, they don't have any
energy there, so pessimistic 

796
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,800
there. 
Unmotivated they can barely drag

797
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,100
themselves out of bed. 
How are you going to get them to

798
00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:14,400
do any of this? 
And what I am here to tell 

799
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,200
everyone is that I can get them 
to do this? 

800
00:54:19,100 --> 00:54:23,200
If you give them accurate 
information, if you can be 

801
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:28,500
patient with them, if you can 
encourage them and motivate them

802
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:33,700
and give them strategies and not
give up on them if they fall off

803
00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:37,900
the wagon in the first week or 
two because everybody does so 

804
00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:40,600
just get over it. 
Yep. 

805
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,200
They're going to fall off the 
wagon. 

806
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,600
That's okay. 
We all make mistakes veins. 

807
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,700
In your whole diet is a hard 
thing to do. 

808
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:54,100
So we got to be tolerant and 
patient people, but I am getting

809
00:54:54,100 --> 00:54:59,100
them to do it and how do I do 
that or why are they doing it? 

810
00:54:59,500 --> 00:55:03,600
Because the real answer is, they
are desperate to get better. 

811
00:55:04,700 --> 00:55:10,300
They will do anything, they will
but they need to be given 

812
00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:14,000
accurate effective information 
and they need somebody to be 

813
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,000
patient and tolerant with them 
and help them through it. 

814
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:23,300
And I think when we do that, 
they will rise to the occasion, 

815
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,400
they will. 
But bus their asses, they will 

816
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,100
bend over backwards to do what 
whatever they can do. 

817
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,100
Because the people that I work 
with want nothing, more than 

818
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:41,000
just to be normal, they just 
want to be normal and live 

819
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,400
normal lives. 
Yeah, I think that's that's 

820
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,400
beautiful man. 
I feel like if you are motivated

821
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,500
by like if you're in the depths 
of hell and your mind and every 

822
00:55:51,500 --> 00:55:55,100
single day is Darkness, then you
will literally do whatever it 

823
00:55:55,107 --> 00:56:00,600
takes to overcome that. 
So if if they believe that their

824
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,500
diet and their their exercise or
activity can have a profound 

825
00:56:03,500 --> 00:56:06,900
effect, they're much more 
inclined to actually do it as 

826
00:56:06,900 --> 00:56:10,200
opposed to a doctor saying, 
that's not likely going to make 

827
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,100
a difference at all. 
Just take this pill. 

828
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,900
Going to be your shortest route 
of travel to fixing the 

829
00:56:15,900 --> 00:56:17,800
situation. 
I feel like if you flip the 

830
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,200
script on that like you are then
like if they see if they're able

831
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:22,900
to connect the dots to 
understand that this is going to

832
00:56:22,908 --> 00:56:26,000
have a direct impact on their 
ability to recover, they'll have

833
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,800
all the motivation the world 
needed to make it you know, have

834
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,700
it. 
Yes, and I want to empower 

835
00:56:33,700 --> 00:56:37,500
clinicians to. 
I want clinicians to start 

836
00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:41,400
offering these treatments to 
people I want clinicians to 

837
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,700
start giving people honest and 
accurate information. 

838
00:56:46,700 --> 00:56:52,600
Scientific information Because 
right now you're right. 

839
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:58,500
If your cousin goes to his 
psychiatrist and says hey my 

840
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:02,900
cousin, Robert said that, if I 
go on a diet it might help my 

841
00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:07,500
depression, the psychiatrist, 
get a laugh and say your cousin.

842
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:11,700
Robert sounds like quack is he 
is he is psychiatrist? 

843
00:57:11,700 --> 00:57:14,000
Is he a medical professional? 
No. 

844
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,500
Well, then who the hell is he 
beyond the professional here? 

845
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:20,800
I'm the one who Who knows what 
I'm talking about? 

846
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,800
You got a chemical imbalance and
you need a chemical to fix it. 

847
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:30,300
and so we have to change the 
conversation but that 

848
00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:34,300
conversation needs to go through
out the mental health profession

849
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:42,700
and You know I know some people 
listening might think that Chris

850
00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:47,300
Palmer sounds pretty radical. 
He's a he's a fat he's like a 

851
00:57:47,308 --> 00:57:51,800
rebel Maverick. 
Whatever reality is I am a 

852
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,900
Harvard Medical School 
psychiatrist assistant professor

853
00:57:55,900 --> 00:58:00,600
of psychiatry I'm currently the 
director of the Department of 

854
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,900
postgraduate and continuing 
education at what is now. 

855
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:06,600
Ranked the number one 
Psychiatric Hospital in the 

856
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,800
United States. 
And at least so far, I have the 

857
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,400
support of my Institution. 
In what I am doing. 

858
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:24,300
I have endorsements from major 
leading psychiatrists 

859
00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:29,300
neuroscientists and other 
Physicians for this book or this

860
00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:36,400
Theory, This is not quackery. 
This is simply putting the 

861
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:41,800
science together. 
And the shocking thing is that, 

862
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:46,700
yes, diet, exercise, other 
lifestyle strategies can 

863
00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:52,000
sometimes result in miraculous 
Improvement in people with 

864
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,700
serious, crippling brain 
disorders. 

865
00:58:55,300 --> 00:59:00,400
And this is going to require a 
sea change, like an entire 

866
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:02,900
transformation in the mental 
health field. 

867
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,300
And so one of the while I'm on 
this bandwagon, I'm just going 

868
00:59:08,300 --> 00:59:11,100
to go ahead and put in my plug 
if I can before man. 

869
00:59:11,700 --> 00:59:15,200
I want your help if you are 
listening. 

870
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:21,200
And you know people who are 
suffering or if you yourself are

871
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,200
suffering and you know that we 
need to change. 

872
00:59:25,300 --> 00:59:29,100
We need a better way. 
I want you to join us. 

873
00:59:29,100 --> 00:59:32,500
We I am working with a lot of 
other people. 

874
00:59:32,500 --> 00:59:36,000
Now we want to start a 
Grassroots movement. 

875
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,900
And so I'm going to encourage 
people to go to brain 

876
00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:44,500
energy.com, brain energy.com you
go there. 

877
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,100
I am hoping that that is going 
to be the landing base. 

878
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:58,400
Someday soon for a Grassroots 
mental health movement and we 

879
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,300
want we want to educate 
clinicians and patients and 

880
01:00:02,300 --> 01:00:04,900
family members. 
We want to let them know that 

881
01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:08,700
there is hope that you do not 
have a chronic lifelong 

882
01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:12,200
disorder, more than likely that 
there is hope for you healing, 

883
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,600
and we can use strategies like 
diet and other lifestyle 

884
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,100
strategies right now to help you
heal. 

885
01:00:20,500 --> 01:00:23,700
But I want research, I'm an 
academic. 

886
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,000
I understand that. 
People are going to want to see 

887
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,200
research studies and they're 
going to want to see this 

888
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,700
validated and clinical trials. 
I'm not I'm not standing in the 

889
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:35,400
way of that. 
Yeah so let's get research 

890
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,500
funding for it. 
I want insurance companies to 

891
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:42,600
start covering this I want 
insurance companies, start 

892
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,200
covering, not only a 
psychiatrist or a 

893
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:50,300
psychotherapist, the maybe 
personal trainer, or a physical 

894
01:00:50,300 --> 01:00:56,100
therapist, or a dietitian, or a 
health and wellness coach. 

895
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,400
Those are the people who are 
really going to put help with 

896
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,000
these illnesses into remission 
and insurance company, should be

897
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,200
paying for it and in case you 
think, well, that's get a 

898
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:08,900
bankrupt. 
The system, dr. 

899
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:13,100
Palmer know it. 
Aim that is going to save the 

900
01:01:13,100 --> 01:01:19,600
system, billions of dollars 
because those interventions over

901
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:24,700
the course of one year are so 
much cheaper than putting people

902
01:01:24,700 --> 01:01:30,600
on pill, after pill, after pill,
or pills and pills all the same 

903
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,100
time for the rest of their 
lives. 

904
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,100
Doing those interventions for 
one year is a lot cheaper than 

905
01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:40,400
paying people disability 
payments from all of our 

906
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,100
taxpayer dollars and these are 
people who want to work, they 

907
01:01:45,100 --> 01:01:48,000
can't work. 
Their brains aren't functioning 

908
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,600
properly. 
If we can get their brains 

909
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,900
functioning properly, through 
these kind of strategies, we 

910
01:01:54,900 --> 01:01:58,700
cannot only relieve their 
suffering, which is my primary 

911
01:01:58,700 --> 01:02:02,900
goal is a psychiatrist. 
We can get them off disability, 

912
01:02:02,900 --> 01:02:06,600
we can get them back to work. 
And now we've taken somebody who

913
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:13,100
is a burden to the system and 
now they will be attacks aimed, 

914
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:18,600
revenue-producing Citizen and 
what's not to love about all of 

915
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:20,900
it. 
Yeah, no, I'm in complete 

916
01:02:20,900 --> 01:02:22,200
agreement. 
I mean, when I, when I heard you

917
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,400
speak, when I saw you speak it 
hard to kill some. 

918
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,300
Like I could tell you were 
incredibly passionate about this

919
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:30,700
topic and I never heard somebody
speak on this from the Angela. 

920
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:33,300
Brought the table. 
I feel like this is 100% the 

921
01:02:33,300 --> 01:02:34,700
message that needs to be put out
there. 

922
01:02:34,700 --> 01:02:36,900
I love the angle that you're 
taking with it. 

923
01:02:37,100 --> 01:02:38,800
You've got the credentials to 
mcenamey. 

924
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,500
People need to be here in 
exactly what you're saying and I

925
01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:43,000
want it to be a Grassroots 
movement. 

926
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,100
I want it to be, you know, 
gaining the momentum that it 

927
01:02:46,100 --> 01:02:48,600
should be because I feel like 
I'm in the day if people buy 

928
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,300
into this message, if they 
started cooperating this in 

929
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:54,900
their day-to-day life, I mean 
everything will improve like 

930
01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:57,800
nothing you're saying is because
you're, you know, vested in 

931
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,500
some, you know, patent for some 
SSRI on Table I call. 

932
01:03:01,500 --> 01:03:05,200
This is just simply good quality
information eating, right? 

933
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,900
Have the right activity, you 
know, improving your body from 

934
01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:10,600
the inside out as it. 
Always has been up to this point

935
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,000
and should be going forward and 
I feel like if people buy into 

936
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,000
that, then everybody wins. 
Absolutely. 

937
01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:21,300
Yeah and I forgot to mention but
yeah at the same time we're 

938
01:03:21,300 --> 01:03:24,300
doing these treatments for 
mental illness, guess what? 

939
01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:26,900
We're also going to be reducing 
obesity. 

940
01:03:27,100 --> 01:03:31,400
We're also going to be reducing 
or preventing type 2 diabetes or

941
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,500
going to be preventing heart 
attacks and strokes and 

942
01:03:34,500 --> 01:03:39,500
Alzheimer s disease and because 
all of those things are 

943
01:03:39,500 --> 01:03:43,300
interconnected and I go through 
the science of that if that 

944
01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:47,000
sounds too like to incredible. 
Unbelievable. 

945
01:03:47,300 --> 01:03:49,900
I go through the hard science of
all of that. 

946
01:03:50,100 --> 01:03:53,400
How all of the mental disorders 
are interconnected with all of 

947
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,300
those other things, obesity 
diabetes, heart attacks, and 

948
01:03:56,300 --> 01:04:00,900
even Alzheimer's disease. 
And and so if we get people 

949
01:04:00,900 --> 01:04:07,100
healthier Then it's going to 
save the system so much money, 

950
01:04:07,100 --> 01:04:10,800
but it's going to save so much 
human suffering. 

951
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:12,900
It's going to reduce so much 
human suffering. 

952
01:04:13,500 --> 01:04:19,200
And I think as everyone knows 
when you look around the world 

953
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:24,100
today, the health and wellness 
of the population of the world 

954
01:04:24,100 --> 01:04:29,600
is going down the tubes bass and
we need radical changes and new 

955
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,100
strategies. 
And the reason I'm calling for a

956
01:04:33,100 --> 01:04:38,200
Grassroots movement is because 
There are powerful forces that 

957
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,900
will not want these changes, so 
there are companies that are 

958
01:04:41,908 --> 01:04:45,200
making billions of dollars off 
of the current model. 

959
01:04:46,700 --> 01:04:48,800
I'm not here to say those are 
evil people. 

960
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,600
I'm just here to say that those 
are people making billions of 

961
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:56,300
dollars off the current model. 
If I were them, I wouldn't want 

962
01:04:56,300 --> 01:04:58,600
it to change. 
I would like being a 

963
01:04:58,607 --> 01:05:01,700
billionaire. 
Why would I want some Chris 

964
01:05:01,700 --> 01:05:04,100
Palmer guy coming along taken 
away? 

965
01:05:04,100 --> 01:05:06,600
My billion dollars. 
I wouldn't like that. 

966
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,200
So, I would probably fight it. 
I would probably say, hey, no. 

967
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,400
This this ain't right. 
We can't we can't be changed and

968
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,600
hold on here, folks. 
Let's just stick with the 

969
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,800
current plan. 
An because they've invested lots

970
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,500
of money and time and they got a
good thing going that doesn't 

971
01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:27,100
make him evil. 
But it doesn't make him right? 

972
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:28,600
Yeah. 
And it doesn't end. 

973
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,700
Does mean we should keep doing 
it because what we're doing 

974
01:05:31,700 --> 01:05:36,300
ain't working and we got to do 
better, we've just got to do 

975
01:05:36,300 --> 01:05:39,200
better. 
Well you 100% in my vote of 

976
01:05:39,207 --> 01:05:40,500
confidence. 
I mean anything I could ever 

977
01:05:40,500 --> 01:05:43,500
help do to spread the word. 
I mean, Count Me In and I'm 

978
01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:47,000
super excited about your book. 
I'm excited to hear you. 

979
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,600
Continue to speak and spread 
this message. 

980
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,500
I'm going to be spreading it 
sounded from rooftops myself 

981
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:53,700
because I feel like this is, 
this is what the population 

982
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:56,600
needs to hear right now. 
Thank you, Robert. 

983
01:05:56,900 --> 01:06:00,000
Hi I appreciate. 
We're going to need all the help

984
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,100
we can get. 
So we will take your, your 

985
01:06:03,900 --> 01:06:08,200
voice, your platform, all of 
your energy and whatever you can

986
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:11,700
do to help, we will take it. 
Well we will definitely have to 

987
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:13,000
have you back on the Pike as any
point. 

988
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,700
You got an open invitation for 
sure. 

989
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,700
This, this is going to be great 
for the launch the book, those 

990
01:06:17,700 --> 01:06:19,500
brain energy.com you said, 
right? 

991
01:06:20,300 --> 01:06:24,100
Yes, brain energy.com, perfect. 
And do you have a social profile

992
01:06:24,100 --> 01:06:25,300
as well? 
People can follow you on. 

993
01:06:26,700 --> 01:06:32,600
I do so all my socials will be 
actually on brain energy out cam

994
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:37,800
you can, I've got a separate 
website, Chris Palmer and d.com.

995
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,100
That has some of the more 
specific research that I've been

996
01:06:41,100 --> 01:06:43,900
doing with ketogenic diet and 
other stuff. 

997
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:47,800
So if you want to check out 
more, Chris Palmer, specific 

998
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,900
things, you can go to that 
website and all my socials are 

999
01:06:50,900 --> 01:06:53,600
there so you can follow me on 
Twitter. 

1000
01:06:53,900 --> 01:06:58,500
Instagram, Facebook On. 
But yeah. 

1001
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,000
Now, I am really excited and 
passionate about this. 

1002
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,500
And the great news is that. 
A lot of people a lot of other 

1003
01:07:08,500 --> 01:07:09,800
people are too. 
Yeah. 

1004
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,400
Other people that I'm talking to
you are just as excited and 

1005
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,100
passionate as you are because 
they look around and they see 

1006
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:19,300
how the system is just fail. 
And so many people and we just 

1007
01:07:19,300 --> 01:07:23,000
gotta change something. 
Well I truly truly appreciate 

1008
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,200
your passion. 
I appreciate your enthusiasm. 

1009
01:07:25,300 --> 01:07:27,500
I appreciate you taking the time
to jump on this podcast and 

1010
01:07:27,500 --> 01:07:31,300
speak your mind on this. 
I feel like you know this this 

1011
01:07:31,300 --> 01:07:36,000
is this is an epidemic of a 
scale that we haven't even seen 

1012
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,800
before and I feel like people 
need to be equipped the right 

1013
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,000
information to make a difference
to feel empowered. 

1014
01:07:42,300 --> 01:07:44,500
And I feel like when people feel
empowered, they have the 

1015
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:46,800
confidence in themselves to make
a change know that the changes 

1016
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,700
they make and have a lasting 
impact on their health and 

1017
01:07:48,700 --> 01:07:52,200
well-being, mentally and 
physically the world as a whole 

1018
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,700
will improve. 
And I think you are incredibly 

1019
01:07:55,700 --> 01:07:57,000
Well Suited deliver that 
message. 

1020
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,000
So, keep doing what you're doing
keep fighting this fight. 

1021
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,800
Thank you Robert. 
Thank you very much sir, until 

1022
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,100
next time and you have a 
wonderful wonderful day, dr. 

1023
01:08:05,100 --> 01:08:06,800
Chris Palmer. 
All right. 

1024
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:07,300
Thanks