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Well, hello ladies and gents. 
Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com 

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And today I've got special guest
Doctor Kate Shanahan on the line

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and we dive deep into the 
wonderful world of fat. 

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But I guess it's not a wonderful
word 'cause we're pretty much 

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talking about her new book, Dark
Calories, which is all about 

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processed seed oils, oxidative 
stress, all the things that 

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we're trying to avoid. 
And I thought that's a topic 

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that is involved in a lot of 
confusion, a lot of ignorance 

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around that. 
We hear about the importance of 

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removing sugars and processed 
foods from our diets and there 

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has certainly been talk about 
removing, you know, highly 

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inflammatory polyunsaturated 
fats. 

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But she is leading the charge, 
tip of the spear, as to what 

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that means, how we can remove 
that from our diet, what all 

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that involves from a metabolic 
standpoint. 

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So I thoroughly enjoyed the 
conversation. 

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I learned a ton and I have no 
doubt that you will as well. 

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So that further delay, sit back,
relax, enjoy the conversation 

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with Doctor Kate Shanahan. 
And we are live. 

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Doctor Kate Shanahan, how are 
you today? 

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I'm good. 
Thank you so much. 

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Robert, how are you? 
I'm doing wonderful well myself.

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I'm excited to chat with you. 
You, you don't know this, but 

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your book Deep Nutrition was one
of my wife and I's pillar reads 

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as we were getting ready for our
first pregnancy. 

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That book pretty much changed 
how we approached our nutrition.

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She's been keto, I've been keto 
for 8-9 years now, but really 

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kind of diving into all of that 
from an epigenetic standpoint 

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really laid the ground for how 
we wanted to go about the 

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pregnancy, postpartum nutrition 
for him now, all that. 

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So thank you. 
Oh, well, that's great to hear. 

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Thank you. 
It's music to my ears. 

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It's just so important to start,
you know, children from the 

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very, very beginning on a good 
diet. 

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Absolutely. 
I don't think people realize 

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like the the epigenetic effects 
I feel is very widely 

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misunderstood. 
There's just a lot of ignorance,

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a lot of ignorance around that. 
And I feel like if people 

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realize that what they consumed 
was going to have a significant 

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impact on their lineage 234 
generations deep, they would 

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likely take more of an 
initiative to make improvements 

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in their own diet. 
Yeah, and you know, my first 

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book, Deep Nutrition does 
explain a lot of the the 

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science, the fascinating science
of just how important it is to 

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to eat healthy as early as 
possible in the pregnancy 

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planning period. 
There's a lot of science behind 

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it. 
But yes, like you said, there's 

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still just generally a lot of 
ignorance because the whole 

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field of nutrition is 
unfortunately twisted in 

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distorted, which is why I called
my latest book Dark Calories 

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because some of it is pretty 
sinister. 

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I definitely, definitely want to
peel the curtain back on dark 

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calories 'cause there's a lot of
misinformation and confusion 

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around seed oils as well. 
Before we do, though, can I get 

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a little back story on just what
got you into the nutrition 

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health space to begin with? 
Like I'm always kind of curious 

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to get people's origins stored. 
Like what was the catalyst for 

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making you embark on this path? 
Yeah, so I think, you know, 

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there's a lot to it. 
There's a lot of things, 'cause 

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it was, this is not an easy 
path. 

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And I wouldn't be on it, 
honestly, if it weren't for the 

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fact that just so many things 
pushed me here. 

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And one of them is that I just 
always did want to get to the 

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root cause of what, you know, 
makes people sick. 

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Selfishly, as an athlete, I was 
interested in learning more 

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about why I suffered from so 
many recurring injuries, and 

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other people on the team didn't.
And so that turned out to be 

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related to connective tissues, 
which I did not learn about 

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until I wrote Deep Nutrition. 
But so I went to medical school 

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to try to get to some of these 
root causes, but I left medical 

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school without learning most of 
them. 

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You know, like doctors don't 
really understand the root cause

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of super common things like high
blood pressure, even heart 

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attacks. 
We think we do, but we don't 

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really, we certainly don't 
understand the root cause. 

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We don't learn in school the 
root cause of type 2 diabetes. 

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When I was in school, I learned 
it was type 2 was genetic or 

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age-related. 
And, you know, we've seen that 

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epidemic explode. 
So certainly that was not 

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correct. 
So I, I wanted to learn these 

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root causes because I knew that 
would be the only way to really 

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make a difference for people. 
But when I left, you know, I 

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didn't have that information. 
So I was kind of, I felt like I 

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was sort of sentenced to 
refilling prescriptions for 

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medications that didn't seem to 
prevent heart attacks or really 

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help people with their type 2 
diabetes or, you know, do very 

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much like even asthma 
medications would help with the 

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immediate attack, but people 
would be dependent on asthma 

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medications. 
So, you know, I, I was just one 

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of these people that was like, I
know there's got to be more to 

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this, right? 
And I just didn't feel like I 

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was making a difference 
refilling the drugs. 

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So I sensed there was something 
missing and I was really kind of

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not happy. 
Actually, as a family medicine 

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doctor, being stuck just not 
really making a difference, I'm 

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not sure I was really helping. 
So when I got sick myself and 

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nothing else helped me, I 
resorted to looking into diet. 

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And that was the missing piece. 
And it's not that I hadn't 

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learned about diet as a doctor, 
you know, you always hear that 

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doctors don't learn anything 
about nutrition. 

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It's that's actually not really 
true, that that's not really the

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problem, I should say. 
The problem is that what doctors

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do learn about nutrition is 
wrong. 

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Much of it, especially what we 
learn about fats. 

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And so, you know, that was, 
that's really where I, my story 

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starts is once 22 years ago now,
my eyes were open to the idea 

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that saturated fats aren't 
actually bad for us. 

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That that meant I had a puzzle 
to solve. 

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And I started working on that 
puzzle and that's what got me 

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into it. 
I love it. 

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I love it. 
What, what do you think the, the

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reason is for it to be so easy 
for the, the current narrative 

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around nutrition in the medical 
community to be so hardwired and

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ingrained? 
I mean, there's, there's a, a 

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history component to it here, 
which I think is, is important 

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to kind of lay the foundation. 
But there seems to be this 

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status quo that it is so hard to
break free from. 

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And as more and more research 
comes out, it seems like a very,

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very clear, you know, deviation 
from what the, the norm the 

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current narrative is. 
But it seems as though Despite 

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that research, there's just this
unwillingness to break free of 

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the current status quo. 
Why? 

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Why is that? 
Yeah, so in Dark Calories I 

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explain what's going on here and
in a lot of detail. 

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So the, the big picture is that 
the maybe the biggest immediate 

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barrier to doctors understanding
the truth when they hear it, you

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know, basically that seed oils, 
these industrial byproducts are 

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toxic. 
Doctors resist that because we 

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believe we have learned the real
truth about, you know, fats and 

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oils in our training, right? 
So that's just, that's called 

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like being blindsided because 
you, you have some information, 

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you are no longer willing to 
question the information that 

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you've heard. 
That's just human nature, right?

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So if we all hear that, you 
know, one thing is true, we tend

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to believe that we tend to 
resist anything to the contrary.

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That's human nature. 
And so I was like that myself. 

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Like I, I learned that sugar 
wasn't particularly bad for you.

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It wasn't a problem to eat sugar
as long as you weren't 

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overweight. 
So it took myself getting sick 

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to even just question that basic
teaching, which has now largely 

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been overturned. 
And this is an interesting 

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parallel here between sugar and 
our false narrative around sugar

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that we got fed in the 70s and 
80s and vegetable seed oils and 

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the false narrative around 
those, because that also came 

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from academic medicine. 
And it just came so much earlier

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in time that no one's really dug
it up. 

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Not very many people have. 
I have and a couple other people

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have, have dug up some of these 
corruption, corrupted links 

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between researchers and industry
funding the research. 

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So that's the sinister side of 
this. 

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I think most monitors is 
probably fairly well versed in 

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what seed oils are at least, but
can we kind of give a little bit

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more back story as to what those
are and how they're relatively 

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new as as a dietary, you know, 
additive for us as a species? 

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Yeah. 
So let's, you know, frame this 

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up. 
So like right now that you're, 

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you have a keto podcast, I don't
know when did your podcast 

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start? 
I started recording in 2016, so 

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pretty good while ago. 
OK, so right after that, at that

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time, at that point in time, the
keto diet wasn't synonymous with

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avoiding seed oils. 
And in fact, the Atkins books 

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didn't. 
The Atkins books were the main 

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driver of the keto diet until 
right around 2017. 

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What was it that got you, I'm 
curious, into the keto diet? 

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Like where did you hear about 
it? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
So I was, I was bodybuilding. 

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I'm a natural bodybuilder and 
I've been following traditional 

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diets, you know, standard, you 
know, high carbohydrate diets up

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until 2014, 2015. 
And I just had a struggle with 

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disordered eating tendencies and
I just never felt good. 

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So I started doing carbohydrate 
backloading, which is basically 

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keto minus keto during the day 
and then a bunch of high 

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glycemic index carbs at night. 
And I just noticed that I felt 

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better without the carbs. 
So I cut those out. 

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But I didn't really know what 
keto was. 

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My first introductory to to keto
as a as a term as a dietary 

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intervention was probably the 
podcast that Dom d'agostino did 

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with Tim Ferriss, which I guess 
would have been early 2015 or 

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something. 
So Tim Ferriss was an early 

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adapter of the idea that seed 
oils are not healthy. 

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So I don't know if maybe that's 
could be where you heard it 

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from. 
A lot of people don't even 

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remember where they first heard 
it. 

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But the, the reason I'm bringing
this up is that the first keto 

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book to specifically warn people
about the seed oils and to 

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specifically list out what they 
are, which I'm going to do here 

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in a second, I promise, was the 
Keto Reset by Mark Sisson and 

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Brad Kearns. 
And they interviewed me for that

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because I've been working with 
them on other projects. 

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And I've been pointing out that,
hey, we got to be talking about 

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these oils more because when we 
tell people not to eat carbs, we

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got to make sure they're eating 
the right kinds of fats. 

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And vegetable oils are so 
prevalent in our food supply 

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that people need to be aware 
that they need to avoid them. 

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So but, but the term vegetable 
oil doesn't really cut it 

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because olive oil is a vegetable
oil, avocado is a vegetable oil,

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and those are healthy oils. 
So I had to create this term, 

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the hateful 8. 
And so those hateful 8 are the 

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ones we need to avoid and we 
need to memorize this list. 

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So it's corn, canola, cotton 
seed, soy, sunflower, safflower,

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rice bran, and grape seed. 
But if you're living in the UK, 

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you don't know what canola oil 
is because they use there, they 

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use rapeseed. 
So I just need to mention that. 

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Gotcha, gotcha. 
And that's pretty much that. 

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That should be viewed as, 
relatively speaking, a a poison 

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in our body. 
There's no like instance in 

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which the dose makes the poison 
necessarily like that. 

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Some should be something we just
avoid entirely, right? 

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Yeah. 
So that's a really like a simple

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question that has kind of a a 
short and a long answer. 

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So the short answer is you're 
right, the dose makes the 

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poison. 
But the long answer is we have 

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to take into the account the 
fact that most of us have been 

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poisoned until we started 
avoiding these oils because 

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they're in so many foods. 
Like you, probably most people I

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talk to, they kind of go into 
shock when they start looking at

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ingredients and looking at what 
they've been eating all this 

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time. 
And they go into a small period 

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of panic when they're like, how 
on earth am I going to live 

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without these things? 
I can't find food that doesn't 

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have them. 
Was that your experience? 

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Yeah, I mean, I, I was lucky 
because I I started doing keto 

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before it was really popular and
there was not a whole lot of, 

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you know, processed keto options
at that point. 

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But prior to doing keto in its 
entirety, yeah, I was definitely

226
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,480
consuming foods I had, I paid no
mind to, you know, using 

227
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,000
vegetable oils in my cooking or 
just the foods that was 

228
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,520
consumed. 
Like that was an afterthought, 

229
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,840
if any thoughts. 
So yeah, I was definitely guilty

230
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,920
of charge there. 
Right. 

231
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,880
And So what happens is that, you
know, all those years that you 

232
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,840
were eating vegetable oils, they
have damaged your metabolism, 

233
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:03,200
they cause insulin resistant. 
And chances are good that you, 

234
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,520
Robert, were insulin resistant 
even though you didn't have, you

235
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,000
know, type 2 diabetes. 
And I'm pretty sure you probably

236
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,560
weren't obese if you weren't 
doing that though that kind of 

237
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,280
competition. 
So what I found when I was going

238
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:25,920
back to when I was working with 
the Lakers in 2011 was that the 

239
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,960
Lakers were insulin resistant. 
Serious professional athletes 

240
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,680
with body compositions of 8%, 
body fat compositions of 8%, had

241
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,480
insulin resistance. 
And it wasn't being picked up 

242
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,600
because doctors don't test for 
it. 

243
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,440
But it was coming not from being
overweight. 

244
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,080
It wasn't coming from their 
carbohydrates. 

245
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,840
It was coming from the seed oils
in their diets. 

246
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,200
And it took me a while to figure
out, to figure that out like 

247
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,640
that. 
It was coming from the seed oils

248
00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,360
more so than the carbohydrates. 
And that's why I, I wanted, 

249
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,960
that's what I want to talk. 
Spend some time talking about 

250
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,160
that with you if you'd like. 
No. 

251
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,600
Definitely, I think there's 
there's this constant question 

252
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,240
or debate as to what is the 
driving factor for, you know, 

253
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,960
the obesity epidemic we now find
ourselves in. 

254
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,240
And, and I don't remember what 
year it was, but I remember, you

255
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,520
know, at one point it was only 
the discussion around sugar and 

256
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,600
carbohydrate and just excess 
calories. 

257
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,160
And then at some point, I want 
to say probably 20/18/19, I 

258
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,200
started hearing a lot more 
information about seed oils 

259
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,840
being the driving factor. 
So yeah, I'd love to put the 

260
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,840
curtain back on then. 
Yeah, so let's go back to the 

261
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,360
beginning then, 'cause like when
I, you know, shortly before I 

262
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,080
was in medical school, in the, I
was in medical school in the 

263
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,760
90s, but a little bit before 
that, in the 60s, the answer to 

264
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,880
what causes obesity was 
gluttony. 

265
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:59,520
So it was your fault. 
So, you know, that clearly is 

266
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,920
not the whole story for most 
people. 

267
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:11,920
And by the 1970s and 80s, the 
answer had shifted from from 

268
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:17,360
just you're a glutton to fat. 
Fat makes you fat and there was 

269
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:22,040
no distinction between saturated
or unsaturated at that point. 

270
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,560
It was just all fat is bad, you 
needed to eat everything low 

271
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,000
fat. 
Then a few years later, after 

272
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,520
that advice had obviously failed
to help anyone because people 

273
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:39,120
were continuing to get fatter, 
they shifted the focus to sugar.

274
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,320
Now I need to clarify for a 
minute here that in the 70s and 

275
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:53,520
80s when people were cutting out
fat and having sugar, they were 

276
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,800
cutting out saturated fat and 
they didn't realize that they 

277
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,360
were getting a lot more. 
They were still getting a lot of

278
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,880
vegetable oils. 
The consumption of vegetable 

279
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,839
oils did not drop in the 70s and
80s. 

280
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,640
And in fact, it went up. 
It continued to go up. 

281
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:16,000
So the but while we we were 
buying products that claimed to 

282
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,200
be fat free and were high in 
sugar, we were not eating less 

283
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,800
vegetable oils. 
We were eating less butter and 

284
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,599
we were eating less of the fat 
on steak. 

285
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:33,240
You know, we were getting less 
of the natural fats and more 

286
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,920
vegetable oils during that time,
in addition to getting, you 

287
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,800
know, more carbs. 
So surprise, surprise, we 

288
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:46,720
continue to get more obese. 
And so now we're at this point 

289
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,080
where people recognize that 
carbohydrates can be addicting, 

290
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:57,160
particularly sugar, and that 
insulin, they trigger insulin, a

291
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,760
hormone that that makes you 
build fat. 

292
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:08,040
And that's important to 
understand because if you're 

293
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,200
eating high sugary foods and 
you're getting these insulin 

294
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,840
spikes, you're kind of 
accelerating your fat building 

295
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:23,680
process there. 
And that is where the story now 

296
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:29,800
stops for most people that 
carbohydrates are accelerating 

297
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:36,880
fat building because of insulin.
And I kept going because I was 

298
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,960
seeing that vegetable oil was 
increasing even as our 

299
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,120
carbohydrate consumption was 
going down. 

300
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,520
Starting in the 2000s, we did 
eat less carbohydrates. 

301
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,600
Starting the 2000s, we are 
eating less fructose, high 

302
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,880
fructose corn syrup than we did 
in the year 2000, something like

303
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,000
60% less. 
We're eating something like 10% 

304
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,800
less sugar. 
And overall, we're eating just a

305
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,400
little bit less carbohydrate, 
but we we are eating more 

306
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,640
vegetable oil than we were in 
the year 2000, nearly double. 

307
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,960
That is, that is I have seen 
that graph for like the the 

308
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,960
sugar starts to dip, but that 
processed seed oils continues 

309
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,320
to, you know, increase and that 
can be overlaid pretty pretty 

310
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,600
eloquently to the rise in 
obesity. 

311
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,520
Like if you look at all these 
charge, you know, in tandem, 

312
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,680
that seems to be the common 
denominator there. 

313
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,800
Right. 
And you know, at this point it 

314
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,840
gets complicated, right? 
So we're talking about calories,

315
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,760
we're talking about different 
types of fat, and we're talking 

316
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:51,160
about hormones. 
And this, the truth is biology 

317
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,880
is complicated, folks. 
And if you want to know what's 

318
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,760
really going on in your body, 
you have to put on your thinking

319
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:05,760
cap a little bit, right? 
And and so that is. 

320
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:10,200
Part of the problem because so 
many folks are like, oh, OK, 

321
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,400
right, I get it. 
Sugar raises insulin, 

322
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,120
carbohydrates raise insulin. 
Let's cut out sugar and 

323
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:19,680
carbohydrates. 
Problem solved, right? 

324
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:21,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Let's run with that. 

325
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,280
And that helps. 
It helps a lot of people because

326
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,720
it gets you away from the chips 
that have, you know, empty 

327
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,360
calorie carbohydrates, which are
certainly not good for you. 

328
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,440
It also, unknown to many people,
gets them away from the seed 

329
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,720
oils that are the fat that the 
chips are cooked in. 

330
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,960
And the same with, with, yeah, 
doughnuts and crackers and you 

331
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,040
know, most junk foods, all kinds
of whether it's potato chips or 

332
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,360
corn chips or bugles or you name
it, right? 

333
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,640
And it, it gets you away from 
French fries, which are 30% of 

334
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,720
their calories come from 
vegetable oils, right? 

335
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,880
But everyone's focusing on the 
carbohydrates and the insulin 

336
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:06,160
and they're not seeing the, the 
role of that vegetable oils are 

337
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,160
playing. 
And so I, I wanted to dive 

338
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,640
deeper into that because I knew 
that they had to be doing 

339
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:20,800
something bad to our bodies. 
And I knew this because I was a 

340
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,120
biochemistry student before I 
went to medical school. 

341
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,440
And when you look at the 
biochemistry of the molecules 

342
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:33,200
that compose vegetable oils, you
see a certain kind of fatty acid

343
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,960
called polyunsaturated fatty 
acid, and that reacts with 

344
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,280
oxygen and turns into a variety 
of toxins. 

345
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,480
This happens in our food, and 
the same thing happens in our 

346
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,920
bodies. 
In other words, our food becomes

347
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:53,280
toxic when we cook in vegetable 
oils and we're eating toxins. 

348
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,400
And what do those toxins do? 
They attack our cell membranes. 

349
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,200
They intact the polyunsaturated 
fatty acids in our cell 

350
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:07,520
membranes and that destroys our 
body's ability to generate 

351
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,200
energy and it causes 
inflammation and causes a whole 

352
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,800
ton of disease. 
It's not just about obesity here

353
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:18,360
anymore, right? 
So, so that's a lot of 

354
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:20,480
information though, right? 
It's complicated. 

355
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,440
It's a lot more complicated 
than, oh, just cut out carbs. 

356
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:30,680
And I think that's why it's so 
important to read the book with 

357
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,280
your thinking cap on and read it
carefully and understand what's 

358
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,360
really going on in your body 
because then you'll understand 

359
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:45,880
that weight, losing weight does 
not mean that you're getting 

360
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,520
healthier. 
And, and that's really the take 

361
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,120
home message here and why it 
matters to understand that 

362
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:55,640
vegetable oils are driving the 
metabolic disease epidemics, not

363
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,840
carbohydrates and sugar. 
I mean, certainly they both are,

364
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,800
but vegetable oils are the 
primary driver. 

365
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,400
They're the more important 
factor. 

366
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,720
And it has to do with how they 
shift our metabolism and the 

367
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:10,760
main. 
Yeah. 

368
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,280
Didn't mean to cut you after 
what we're saying. 

369
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,280
What they do is they make us 
metabolically addicted to sugar.

370
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,360
Gotcha. 
So was the main mechanism of 

371
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:25,680
action I guess with regards to 
the the process seed oils is 

372
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,640
that it makes the inflammation 
as a that comes as a result of 

373
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:34,560
consuming them increases one's 
overall in some resistance and 

374
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,000
that's the primary driver. 
The primary just close, the 

375
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:45,360
primary driver is oxidative 
stress and that is a chemical 

376
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,760
process that happens in our body
cells. 

377
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,560
And when it happens in our 
body's cells, that's where 

378
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:57,760
things fall apart for our 
health. 

379
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:03,400
Basically, our cells cannot be 
healthy when our diet promotes 

380
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,480
oxidative stress, vegetable oils
promote oxidative stress, and 

381
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,080
oxidative stress promotes 
inflammation, but it also 

382
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,040
promotes degeneration. 
So those are two different and 

383
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,920
very devastating processes. 
That's why I like to like point 

384
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,600
us back to the real root cause 
here, which is this chemical 

385
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:30,000
process called oxidative stress.
And because oxidative stress, 

386
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,040
oxidative stress is important 
because it it causes insulin 

387
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,320
resistance, right? 
It causes the disruptions and to

388
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,600
our cellular fueling that have 
downstream consequences that 

389
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,520
ultimately lead to insulin 
resistance. 

390
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,480
But it's not a one step process.
It's a multiple step process. 

391
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,040
That's why I had to write a book
about it. 

392
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,480
But again, the reason it's 
important to understand is 

393
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,840
because if so, people can 
understand that losing weight 

394
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,160
quickly doesn't get them to 
health quickly. 

395
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,200
Totally. 
And and to be fair, I'm not a 

396
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:09,920
not a a food chemist or 
biochemist by any means, but if 

397
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,160
the fats that one is consumed, 
even if it came from an animal 

398
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:18,280
based saturated source, if that 
that fat source is overly heated

399
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,560
beyond the smoke point, that 
would still create free radicals

400
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,360
and pretty much list the same 
response. 

401
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,360
Is that right? 
Well, yeah. 

402
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:31,720
So smoke point is, is a, an 
industry term and it doesn't 

403
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,800
refer to animal products. 
So it's a, there's a lot of 

404
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,480
terminology here. 
So these are good questions 

405
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,920
because you're raising very 
important points, but there's a 

406
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,280
lot of confusion out there. 
And so I'm glad you're asking 

407
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,880
these questions because I want 
to kind of untangle it a little 

408
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,600
bit. 
So people do talk about smoke 

409
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,160
point when they're talking about
it. 

410
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,040
If they're referring to anything
other than oils, they're they're

411
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,160
not using the term correctly 
because the smoke point refers 

412
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,240
to the term. 
The definition is the smoke 

413
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:10,040
point is the temperature at 
which a thin wisp of blue or 

414
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,800
Gray smoke emerges from an oil 
as it's heated. 

415
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,000
So oils built right into the 
definition. 

416
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,880
Gotcha. 
OK. 

417
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,520
So it doesn't apply to animal 
products. 

418
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,920
And when it comes to cooking 
your food, just don't burn your 

419
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,160
food. 
It's really, you know, not 

420
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,880
complicated. 
If you're if you're cooking with

421
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,280
like a, like a. 
If someone's deep frying with, 

422
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,360
you know, a lard or a tallow for
instance, but they get that oil 

423
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:39,880
too hot, that fat too hot, is 
that going to create a like a 

424
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,720
free radical environment that 
would lead to more inflammation?

425
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,520
Well you you get free radicals 
forming well before the smoke 

426
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,800
point, which is which is an 
important concept here. 

427
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,760
So the vegetable oil industry 
uses the term smoke point to 

428
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,280
sell their oils. 
You do not need to worry about 

429
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,440
smoke point at all unless you 
work in a restaurant and you're 

430
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,680
reheating that oil over and over
and over again in a deep fryer 

431
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:14,800
situation. 
Because in a home situation 

432
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,000
where you're just or cooking 
like, let's take deep frying out

433
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,840
of the equation for a second. 
If you're just pan frying, 

434
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,520
you're, you're going to hear 
like the the meat itself, the 

435
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,520
water in the food that you're 
cooking is going to start 

436
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,080
boiling and sizzling and that's 
your cue to stir. 

437
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,520
And when you stir, you reduce 
the temperature so nothing bad 

438
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,120
happens. 
So it's a myth that you have to 

439
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:42,640
cook your food in a high smoke 
point oil in any situation other

440
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,800
than a deep fryer where you set 
it to like a temperature of 400 

441
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,320
and you walk away. 
Gotcha. 

442
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,080
Is it bad, I'm assuming it 
probably is bad to have animal 

443
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,160
based sources of fats in a deep 
fryer. 

444
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,920
And certainly if you're reusing 
that, all that like that, that's

445
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,440
consistent high heat would break
down the quality of those carbon

446
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,160
bonds, right? 
Yeah, it like it. 

447
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,960
A deep frying is an expensive 
prospect if you're gonna do it 

448
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:16,400
healthy because, you know, it 
takes so much fat and that's why

449
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,960
people tend to reuse it. 
But that is not that's not 

450
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,320
healthy to reuse the oil because
there's so many reactions that 

451
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,640
happen. 
And it has to do with what gets 

452
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,160
extracted from the food, right? 
Like a lot of minerals and 

453
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:35,240
compounds come out of the food 
and end up in the oil, and then 

454
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,520
there's reactions between the 
iron and the fats that way, and 

455
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,440
there's all kinds of things 
deteriorating. 

456
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,160
It's really a witch's brew in 
there. 

457
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,160
And so that's why you probably 
notice if you use a deep fryer 

458
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,680
yourself at home, after about 
two batches or three, maybe if 

459
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,680
you're lucky, it starts to taste
less good. 

460
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,640
Yeah, right. 
So pay and sear for the wind for

461
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,000
sure. 
Yeah, yeah, just like don't, 

462
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,880
don't reuse oil over and over 
again, you know, don't. 

463
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,240
Deep frying is not good if 
you're reusing everything no 

464
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,520
matter what oil you use. 
Totally, totally. 

465
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,880
You mentioned that when you were
working with the Lakers that you

466
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,400
were noticing them being insulin
resistant even at a very low 

467
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,720
body fat. 
Were you measuring like how was 

468
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,440
that measured just via, you 
know, blood sugar levels 

469
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,000
postprandial or how was that 
done? 

470
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,400
Yeah. 
So the proper way to measure it 

471
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,600
is not what I did like the, it 
wasn't the best way, but it was 

472
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:38,040
certainly a way. 
So what I did was what I could, 

473
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:45,680
all I could do, right. 
So I I was not ordering labs for

474
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,600
them myself. 
That was not part of my job 

475
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,280
description, so I had to 
interpret the labs that other 

476
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,400
doctors ordered. 
So I couldn't order insulin 

477
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,680
levels, which is really what you
need to do to get the degree of 

478
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,400
insulin resistance. 
But you can still diagnose 

479
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,960
insulin resistance because if 
somebody is a pre diabetic, they

480
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,320
are by definition insulin 
resistant and you diagnose pre 

481
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,160
diabetes with a fasting blood 
sugar. 

482
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,680
So they had elevated fasting 
blood sugars quite high. 

483
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,520
They also had elevated 
triglycerides. 

484
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,640
I mean, not all of them, but 
some were worse than others. 

485
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,680
But they had other markers of 
insulin resistance. 

486
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,160
There's a few bio, quite a few 
biomarkers that have been 

487
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,000
identified as the hallmarks of 
insulin resistance. 

488
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,440
Maybe you've talked about them 
before. 

489
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,080
Yeah, yeah, certainly on the 
podcast talk about hallmarks of 

490
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,520
the insulin resistance. 
I'm just curious. 

491
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,600
Like they probably had no clue 
that they were registering for 

492
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,560
being insulin resistant. 
Because when you're not 

493
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,880
overweight it's it's not front 
of mind it seems. 

494
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,320
Absolutely not. 
No, they they thought their 

495
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,480
health was defined by the way 
they look in the mirror, right? 

496
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,720
Like nobody told them otherwise.
And so, you know, when I sat 

497
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,640
down with those whose labs who 
you know, brought their labs for

498
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,400
me to review them, I said, look,
this number's abnormal. 

499
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,400
This number's abnormal. 
This number's abnormal. 

500
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,360
You have pre diabetes, yeah. 
So and you're certainly insulin 

501
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,240
resistant and so like that often
would motivate a lot of the 

502
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,640
guys, especially the older guys 
who are starting to feel their 

503
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:27,560
age more to to really make a lot
of changes in their home as 

504
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,000
well. 
Like the what I had Dominion 

505
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,600
over was what they were served 
at the training facility, what 

506
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,160
they were served on the 
airplanes, and what they were 

507
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,200
served after games. 
Like we controlled that. 

508
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,200
But beyond that, they're 
freewheeling, freewheeled humans

509
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,280
who made their own choices. 
So not all of them were on 

510
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,200
board. 
Yeah, no, totally. 

511
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,760
It's it's hard to hard to 
regulate someone's someone's 

512
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,000
intake for sure. 
So I, I personally avoid 

513
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,520
process. 
See, there was like the plague 

514
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,560
and it's really hard. 
Like I look, it's like as a 

515
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,680
bodybuilder, I'm looking at 
every nutrition statement, every

516
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,880
ingredient list. 
I have my own food product 

517
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,680
company. 
So I'm always analyzing 

518
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,280
nutrition statements. 
And because of that, like I 

519
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,640
literally do not walk to a 
grocery store without looking at

520
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,160
everything that's in my cart to 
ensure that it meets my 

521
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,720
criteria. 
And I think it's in so many 

522
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,880
foods that people don't realize 
that they take for granted 

523
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,640
because a lot of times people 
just simply don't look at the 

524
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,000
ingredient list. 
They'll just stop after the 

525
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,920
nutrition statement. 
But when it comes to avoiding 

526
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,000
these processed seed oils, you 
know, I feel like for me, it 

527
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,760
makes intuitive sense simply 
because of the processing steps 

528
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,560
involved. 
Like, I try to keep things as 

529
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,560
simple and, you know, down to 
earth as possible. 

530
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,400
When you look at the laundry 
list of steps that it takes to 

531
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,480
get to extract an oil from a 
rapeseed, for instance, it's 

532
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,480
pretty crazy. 
Like they deodorize everything. 

533
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,960
Like it's more or less rancid 
oil that if it had not been 

534
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,440
deodorized, we would not be able
to get it past our nose in order

535
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,840
to consume it in the 1st place. 
But it's cheap and they 

536
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,840
deodorize it so that it can pad 
their margins. 

537
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,760
But some people are of the 
opinion that, you know, 

538
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,200
obviously they think that it's 
only about the calories. 

539
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,360
And I am not of that opinion. 
I do think calories matter for 

540
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:20,960
sure. 
One's intake, one's fuel intake 

541
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,320
matters. 
But for those individuals that 

542
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,520
think it, it all stems from 
calories and thermodynamics is 

543
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,040
the one in indoor Biome, what 
would you say to them as far as 

544
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,520
like if everything was treated 
isocaloric? 

545
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,640
Like not that I would recommend 
this type for someone, but if 

546
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,440
someone is to have pure, you 
know, 100% cane sugar and then 

547
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,840
you took another individual that
was pure isocaloric, you know, 

548
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,520
vegetable oils, like what is 
happening to them on a cellular 

549
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,400
level between the two? 
Yeah, so calories count, but 

550
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,600
that's not the end of the story,
right? 

551
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:57,080
So certainly the laws of 
thermodynamics apply in our 

552
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,120
body, but we have to take in 
consideration the other, the 

553
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,480
biological part of it. 
We're we're, you know, we're not

554
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:12,639
just physical calorimeters that 
become hotter when we dump food 

555
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,480
into our bodies. 
That's what a calorie is, right?

556
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,560
It's just how much thermal 
energy is in the food when you 

557
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,600
burn it? 
How much heat is released that's

558
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:27,760
how we define calories and so 
but we're not we don't heat up 

559
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,600
when we eat right our bodies 
this biological effects galore. 

560
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:41,159
So sugar has a addicting taste. 
So people who are sugar addicts,

561
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:45,239
like I was, will obsess with 
sugar. 

562
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,560
And when we try to eat a healthy
dinner, we're not satisfied 

563
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,360
until we eat that sweet dessert.
And even then we're not really 

564
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,440
satisfied because you always 
want more sugar. 

565
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,120
Seems like that's, I kind of 
felt like I lived in a state of 

566
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,560
perpetual wanting to eat more 
dessert until I got the oils out

567
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,920
of my life. 
Now what do the oils do? 

568
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,280
Well, what they do is they 
actually magnify our the 

569
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,880
addictiveness of sugar by like 
tenfold, probably because what 

570
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,040
they create is a shift in our 
metabolism where our cells need 

571
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,480
sugar for energy. 
And I go into the details of how

572
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:29,360
that happens. 
You know, the that in the book, 

573
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,360
because there's a mechanism. 
I'm not just saying this out of 

574
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,200
the blue. 
I have lots of scientific 

575
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,240
support to show that this very 
strange thing happens. 

576
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,040
And, and what I'm saying is that
when our diet is full of 

577
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,800
vegetable oils, we, our body 
cannot use our own body fat for 

578
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,280
fuel. 
So it needs more sugar. 

579
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,240
And that makes us sugar addicts,
not for the taste of sugar, but 

580
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:58,720
for the energy in sugar. 
And that completely rewires our 

581
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:01,640
relationship with food and 
creates all kinds of eating 

582
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,840
disorders and disordered food 
relationships that are worse 

583
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:13,880
than than just like this 
hedonistic relationship. 

584
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,040
It it's, it's not just a matter 
of avoiding sugar for long 

585
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,960
enough that you lose the taste 
for it. 

586
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,880
Then you'll be addicted to 
carbohydrates because 

587
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,440
carbohydrates can also give your
cells that energy that they 

588
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,880
need. 
But the real root problem is 

589
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,720
that vegetable oils change your 
metabolism so they don't get 

590
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:35,880
energy from your body fat 
between meals. 

591
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,280
So if someone is following a, 
you know, low carb ketogenic 

592
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,200
diet and they're trying to 
obtain fat metabolism, but 

593
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,600
they're not consuming, so 
they're not consuming sugar or 

594
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,160
carbohydrates, but they're only 
consuming predominantly seed 

595
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:55,960
oils, then they're in in effect 
not ever going to become fully 

596
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,160
fat adapted and their body's 
going to be inefficiently 

597
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,920
deriving energy from glucose 
still. 

598
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:08,000
Right, they'll get It's a very 
unhealthy thing to follow a keto

599
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,160
diet and get most of your fats 
from seed oils. 

600
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,320
This has actually been proven in
animal studies multiple times 

601
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:21,360
and it's there is some evidence 
even in human studies done by a 

602
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:28,960
gentleman named Kevin Hall who 
showed that keto makes people 

603
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,080
lose a little bit more muscle 
than a low fat diet. 

604
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,520
That's in the context of them 
consuming primarily seed oils. 

605
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,600
Correct. 
Gotcha. 

606
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,400
Because their body I'm assuming 
is is using gluconeogenesis to 

607
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,280
derive glucose from the stored 
amino acids in the muscle they 

608
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,360
have. 
Exactly. 

609
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:54,400
And that hasn't been taken into 
account like the fact that these

610
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,240
oils or what's really missing 
from the the, the scientific 

611
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:07,320
consciousness on obesity and 
metabolism and keto, frankly, is

612
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,080
the fact that polyunsaturated 
fatty acids do build up in our 

613
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:16,520
body fat so that our body fat is
a source of polyunsaturated 

614
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,120
fatty acids. 
And that's a problem because our

615
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:26,400
mitochondria cannot stay healthy
when they're forced to 

616
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,200
continually oxidize. 
These easily oxidizable 

617
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,080
polyunsaturates that deteriorate
into toxins inside our 

618
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,120
mitochondria I. 
Don't remember if it was your 

619
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,440
content or or where I heard this
but I I read somewhere that the 

620
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,320
if you consume vegetables it 
stays like the half life of it 

621
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,720
is something crazy like two 
years. 

622
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,080
Like it takes you 2 plus years 
to metabolize that completely 

623
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,360
from the body. 
Is there any truth to that? 

624
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,360
Yes, that's from original 
research done. 

625
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:05,000
Well, yeah, so I'm sorry, I was 
answering a different question 

626
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,200
about the fact that they build 
up in our bodies. 

627
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,680
So did you ask that or did you 
say how long they stay in our 

628
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:11,480
bodies? 
I'm sorry. 

629
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,480
How long they stay? 
Yeah. 

630
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,600
So, OK, so we can answer that in
the vague sense, but we don't 

631
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:25,400
have a lot of real great data. 
So the only data that we have 

632
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,480
comes from fat in general, like 
how long does it take for the 

633
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,760
fat molecules in our body fat to
be replaced by, you know, new 

634
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,840
fat molecules from our diet? 
And the answer to that is it 

635
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,160
takes about four to five years 
in a normal weight person. 

636
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,480
Gotcha. 
But it, it may be, you know, 

637
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,160
there's other things to consider
like if you're way more 

638
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,520
overweight, it it may take even 
longer. 

639
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,840
But the other thing is that 
polyandsaturates may be 

640
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,320
preferentially released and they
do appear to be. 

641
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,480
So that would shorten it again. 
So we don't really know, but 

642
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,080
it's certainly years. 
And I'm assuming they would be 

643
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,280
preferentially released because 
the body recognizes it as a 

644
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,840
toxin. 
Yeah, that's a great question. 

645
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,760
Of course, we don't really know.
But my answer is I think it has 

646
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,520
to do just more with their 
fundamental, the thermodynamics 

647
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,320
of it all, the fact that they 
are more, more wiggly, they're 

648
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,720
more, there's more Brownian 
motion happening. 

649
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:30,120
And remember, our cells are just
bags of chemicals, right? 

650
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,600
There's it is chemicals that are
guided by the laws of 

651
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,520
thermodynamics. 
And so if you have a stiff 

652
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,760
saturated fat molecule, it's 
basically a straight stick. 

653
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,720
It doesn't move around as much 
as the polyunsaturates, which 

654
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:53,920
are wiggly and bendy. 
So just by that rule, that kind 

655
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,000
of explains why it does appear 
that they are preferentially 

656
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,600
released into the bloodstream. 
Gotcha. 

657
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,320
That makes total sense. 
All right. 

658
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,160
I want to kind of talk 
actionable steps here. 

659
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,560
So if someone's listening to 
this, they would hopefully want 

660
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,760
to avoid those hateful 8 that 
you mentioned earlier. 

661
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,360
But how would you recommend 
someone go about, I guess what 

662
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,840
would you have them include into
their diet as far as quality 

663
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,480
fats go? 
Like, is there like a certain 

664
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,200
mix of healthy pollen, saturated
fats, monos and saturates that 

665
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,880
you would encourage people to 
try and prioritize? 

666
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,240
Yeah. 
So to answer that, we have to 

667
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,440
talk about the there's good 
fats, bad fats, and then there's

668
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,040
a middle category that I call 
OK, but not great. 

669
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,680
That middle category is the 
refined oils like refined palm 

670
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,760
oil, refined olive oil, refined 
avocado oil. 

671
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,040
Those are not great. 
They're empty calories. 

672
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,760
They don't have any nutrition, 
but they're not outright toxic 

673
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,680
the way the vegetable oils are. 
So if you're, you know, if you 

674
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,960
got no choice, if you're looking
for a mayonnaise that's seed oil

675
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,280
free, you're gonna have to buy 
refined avocado oil, mayonnaise 

676
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,440
that's better, you know, it's 
better for you than mayonnaise 

677
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,400
that's made out of soy oil, for 
example. 

678
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,680
So that's important to know 
about that middle category. 

679
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,480
But if you wanted to have really
healthy mayonnaise, then you 

680
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,040
would make it yourself from 
unrefined avocado or unrefined 

681
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,920
virgin olive oil. 
Virgin and unrefined are the 

682
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:23,520
same thing. 
And so the the healthy oils are 

683
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,800
really everything that's not 
refined, period. 

684
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,240
And refined being defined as 
what? 

685
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,360
Yeah. 
So the meaning that the crude 

686
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,240
oil is inedible, like you were 
describing earlier when you 

687
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:42,040
first make soy oil, it's 
inedible. 

688
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:43,960
You can't eat it. 
It's caustic. 

689
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,160
It smells like it. 
Smelling it would burn your 

690
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,760
nose, your eyes would start 
burning. 

691
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,280
And if you had a a gulp of it, 
your esophagus would burn and it

692
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,640
would burn all the way down to 
your stomach, which would 

693
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,840
probably make you throw it right
back up. 

694
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,960
It's that vile. 
So the crude oil is inevitable 

695
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,800
and it is inedible and 
extensive. 

696
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:12,000
Refining, meaning refining, 
bleaching and deodorizing. 

697
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,920
Like some people try to say that
filtering is refining, but 

698
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,080
that's not true. 
That's just simple mechanical 

699
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:24,600
filtering, chemical refining, 
bleaching, deodorizing, multiple

700
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:30,440
steps of de gumming, de waxing, 
and you know, on it goes, right?

701
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,840
Gotcha. 
And that's what you're trying to

702
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,400
avoid what what was the the good
but not great category that is 

703
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,440
just the the virgin options or 
that was? 

704
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,160
The virgin options, the virgin 
options are the good ones 

705
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:45,800
because they're they're, they 
don't need any refining. 

706
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,160
Gotcha. 
The refining is the good but not

707
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,360
great. 
Yeah, the refined, the refined 

708
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,640
oils that are not members of the
hateful age and that's they're, 

709
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:01,000
they are more monounsaturated 
like olive oil higher in 

710
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,200
monounsaturates, right and lower
in those polyunsaturates that 

711
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:09,600
are extraordinarily easily 
oxidized into toxic compounds. 

712
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,840
Gotcha. 
So the middle category has the 

713
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:19,200
more stable fatty acids in in, 
in that middle category. 

714
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,480
So that would be like your 
refined coconuts, which is 

715
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,200
mostly saturated fat, but it's 
refined so it doesn't have any 

716
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,040
nutritive properties. 
Gotcha. 

717
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,360
OK, That makes total sense. 
What what, what are the what, 

718
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,680
what are your primary fat 
sources throughout the day? 

719
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,560
Like what are you? 
Are you doing more animal based 

720
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,480
or more of the like the olive 
oil and avocado oil things of 

721
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,360
that nature? 
Yeah, like I, I love dairy, so I

722
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,760
get a lot of dairy fat 'cause I 
eat cream, I drink milk, I eat a

723
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,680
lot of cheese, a lot of yogurt. 
So I'm getting a lot of, that's 

724
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,880
probably my main animal fat plus
butter. 

725
00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:59,800
And then of course, you know, I 
get whatever fat comes along 

726
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,160
with the pieces of meat that I'm
buying. 

727
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,520
And then for the oils the the 
plant based I choose, my 

728
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:14,400
favorites are a quality olive 
oil, obviously unrefined, 

729
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,760
unrefined peanut oil. 
It tastes like peanuts. 

730
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,400
Very delicious and unrefined 
sesame oil, which tastes 

731
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,920
amazingly good. 
Nice, nice. 

732
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,560
Out of curiosity, there's, 
there's a big debate, especially

733
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:32,320
in, in my community about the 
significance of, you know, the 

734
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:33,960
foods that the animals are 
consuming. 

735
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,600
And depending on whether or not 
you're talking about a, a 

736
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,720
ruminant animal like a like a 
cow or a deer or lamb, they're 

737
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:41,600
going to upcycle the nutrition 
they're consuming. 

738
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,360
Whereas like a monogastric, you 
know, chicken or pig, it's kind 

739
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,480
of more so a matter of you are 
what you eat. 

740
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,560
That all gets stored in the fat.
So if they're consuming, you 

741
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,360
know, lots of grains or you 
know, seed oils, corn products, 

742
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,520
what products, things that 
nature that's gonna often times 

743
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,360
translate to the fat, how much 
significance do you place on 

744
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:03,960
that? 
Or is it more of your effort 

745
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,120
more so directed towards just 
the oils that we're consuming 

746
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,160
directly? 
Yeah, like the main thing is to 

747
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,440
get these oils out of your life 
'cause that's hard enough. 

748
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,160
So I, I focus first and foremost
on that as far as like what you 

749
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,520
want to avoid. 
And then I put everything else. 

750
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,400
This question about what what 
kind of what we should be eating

751
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,080
falls into the category of like,
get the highest quality you can 

752
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:33,560
afford, right. 
And so when it comes to animal 

753
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,160
products, yes, they are what 
they eat too, just like us. 

754
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,600
And if you can get a higher 
quality animal product like a 

755
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,400
pig that was forest fed, then 
that's great. 

756
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,520
Enjoy it. 
The same with poultry. 

757
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,440
The healthy birds are out there 
scratching around in insects and

758
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,480
maybe they have a little bit 
more polyunsaturated fatty acid 

759
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,400
than like a, like a bovine fat, 
but it's going to come along 

760
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,280
with lots of vitamins and, and 
you know, the antioxidant 

761
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:11,520
vitamins as well. 
So I'm more about like focusing 

762
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,520
on getting the highest quality 
you can afford. 

763
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,680
And I want to be really clear 
that the vegetable oils are 

764
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,120
what's causing people's 
metabolic problems, not the fact

765
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,200
that, you know, the pork that we
eat has been fed way too much 

766
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,720
soy in a, in a, in a 
inappropriate diet for the 

767
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:31,000
species. 
And yes, it's, it's fat is 

768
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,840
highly, highly polyunsaturated 
too, but that is not the driver 

769
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,000
here. 
The driver is the 30% of our 

770
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,480
calories that are coming from 
these toxin laden oils. 

771
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,680
The poofas in a less optimal 
pork, you know, in a soy fed 

772
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,720
pork, those poofas are intact. 
They're not oxidized. 

773
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,480
Big difference. 
They're not going to deplete the

774
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,640
body's antioxidants. 
So you know, if you're going out

775
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,120
to a restaurant and you want to 
have with your, you want to have

776
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,400
a good time with your friends at
a restaurant and you want to go 

777
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,720
to like a BBQ place, enjoy the 
ribs, right? 

778
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:10,640
As long as the sauce doesn't 
have anything too nasty in it. 

779
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:12,520
Now that makes sense. 
That's a good point. 

780
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,360
I just went to to Texas for a 
conference and I enjoyed a lot 

781
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,240
of barbecue and I did not hold 
back. 

782
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:24,160
It was all good quality stuff. 
Curious with all of this said, 

783
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:27,960
I'm, I'm kind of curious to see 
what you think from a societal, 

784
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,560
political, governmental 
standpoint, because from a, you 

785
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,800
know, big food, you know, 
standpoint, they're going to 

786
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,040
have much better margins if 
they're continuing to use these 

787
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:42,240
refined seed oils that are much 
cheaper to produce. 

788
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:45,600
And that's what's going into the
main food supply chain. 

789
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,840
How, how do we correct course 
here? 

790
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,840
Like, I feel like the in a, in a
perfect world, everybody would 

791
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,600
take initiative, own their own 
health and avoid these foods and

792
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,240
vote with their dollar. 
But I feel like the majority of 

793
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:03,280
the masses are are unfortunately
not going to to just take that 

794
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,680
step that I mean, I would hope 
that so, but I don't know if 

795
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,600
that's been the case thus far. 
So what is going to happen from 

796
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,400
like a what needs to happen from
a political, governmental, food 

797
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,520
supply chain standpoint to to 
get this ship moving in the 

798
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,360
right direction? 
I think our only hope, and our 

799
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,920
best hope is getting doctors on 
board because, like myself, many

800
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,680
doctors I know feel trapped in a
job that is unrewarding. 

801
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,360
And it's unrewarding in part 
because they do not learn the 

802
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,440
root cause, and they're forced 
to follow guidelines that they 

803
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,080
see with their own eyes aren't 
really helping people. 

804
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,520
But they don't know what to do. 
They don't know what they don't 

805
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:41,920
know. 
They don't know where to start. 

806
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:46,320
Just like I felt 22 years ago 
when I knew there was something 

807
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,000
missing but I had no idea what 
it was. 

808
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:53,560
The answer is medical science 
has been misinforming you 

809
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:55,840
doctors. 
Your doctor has been 

810
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,200
misinformed, just like I was 
misinformed about what fats are 

811
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,840
good and what fats are bad. 
And as soon as we get doctors on

812
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,920
board, then we can really start 
to see changes. 

813
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,600
Because I think, you know, a 
good, a good response to this is

814
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:14,520
outrage. 
And that's how I felt when I 

815
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,520
when I learned that I was lied 
to during my medical education. 

816
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,960
And we didn't talk about where 
that light comes from, you know,

817
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,560
the role of the American Heart 
Association, accepting money 

818
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,040
from Procter and Gamble. 
But that's a good story that I 

819
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,520
think you'll really enjoy if you
read the book Dark Calories. 

820
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,240
So, so, so. 
But to answer the question, 

821
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:42,200
doctors need to to have the 
right information to help their 

822
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,640
patients. 
You know, nobody looks to the 

823
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,080
processed food industry for 
nutrition advice, right? 

824
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,560
When it comes down to it, if you
have chest pain and you want to 

825
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,000
know if it's at a heart attack 
and your doctor says, yeah, it 

826
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,160
was a heart attack and your 
doctor now says you need to take

827
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,720
this drug. 
But it's the reality is that 

828
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:05,960
drug is not going to help you. 
The reality is your heart attack

829
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,240
was caused by oxidative stress, 
but your doctor doesn't know. 

830
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,760
Once doctors find out that 
they've been lying to their 

831
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,960
patients, I think they'll be 
outraged. 

832
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,920
And, and I think that, you know,
there's enough, there's millions

833
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,800
of doctors in this country. 
Maybe some of them don't care. 

834
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,240
They just want to go along, get 
along, prescribe drugs, 

835
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:26,800
whatever. 
It's easier to do that, believe 

836
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,520
me. 
But I think there's enough. 

837
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,600
And I think the younger 
generation especially that is 

838
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,320
starting to realize that, boy, 
they've been lied to about a lot

839
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,520
of stuff. 
I think they're going to be able

840
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:43,520
to tackle to to to to get it 
faster than my generation has. 

841
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,560
Yeah, No, I certainly hope so. 
I, I, I, I share in your 

842
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,520
optimism there. 
And I feel like I've had some 

843
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,240
people in the podcast that 
several doctors that have come 

844
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:56,720
on after just hearing repeated 
instances of their patients, you

845
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:59,480
know, adopting a low carb 
ketogenic diet or doing 

846
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,280
something that is against the 
status quo and seeing results 

847
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,400
that they couldn't deny. 
So do you think the main way of 

848
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,640
opening the eyes of the doctors 
is to have this grassroots 

849
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,920
movement of patients recognizing
the benefit in excluding the 

850
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,520
seed oils? 
Or is there a better way to 

851
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,600
enlighten the the doctors? 
I think doctors can read book 

852
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:23,000
dark calories, but yeah, 
certainly there's nothing, you 

853
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,280
know, they can try it 
themselves. 

854
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,960
There's nothing more powerful 
than feeling improvements 

855
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,120
yourself. 
I think that even Trump's the 

856
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,840
power of watching your patients 
health problems melt away. 

857
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,520
But I think it's very important.
Robert and I, I'm going to ask 

858
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,920
you for your help with this to 
point out that the keto diet 

859
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:45,000
doesn't work as long as people 
are still eating seed oils. 

860
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,920
This has been clinically proven 
and I and I show the research in

861
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,520
a chapter of my book where I'm 
talking about the different 

862
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,880
studies on the keto diets that 
have excluded seed oils and that

863
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,120
haven't. 
And it it, it, it doesn't help 

864
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,760
at all when it doesn't exclude 
seed oils. 

865
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:06,440
And the animal that's in humans,
the animal studies show that 

866
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,760
it's extraordinarily bad. 
The the animals develop insulin 

867
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,600
resistance, they develop skinny 
fat, they lose muscle, they get 

868
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,520
fatty liver, they get little 
kidney problems. 

869
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,480
And you know, it's just, it's 
everything bad that they've 

870
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,000
looked for. 
They've found in animals fed a 

871
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,880
keto diet, that is where the 
fattest corn oil or soy oil or 

872
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,000
one of the other hate plate. 
Totally. 

873
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,440
Yeah, No, I think, I think, you 
know, sub experimentation is 

874
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,760
100% the best way to go for 
anybody and everybody, patients,

875
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,600
doctors, performers, athletes, 
all the above. 

876
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,520
If someone if someone's 
listening to this and they're 

877
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,120
like, OK, I'm just gonna go all 
in, remove all processed setos 

878
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,760
from the diet, there's gonna be 
no more hateful 8 in my life 

879
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,640
whatsoever. 
What what are some some common 

880
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,920
symptoms that they should just 
be be mindful of and kind of, 

881
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,840
you know, look for in doing so? 
Oh, actually, I'm glad you 

882
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,080
asked. 
So let's get back to what are 

883
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,360
these things doing to us? 
Well, remember we said that they

884
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,720
they make, they, they give us a 
metabolic sugar addiction so 

885
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:15,160
that our body cells use up more 
of the sugar in our blood. 

886
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,800
And one of the main things that 
seed oils are doing to people 

887
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,080
who are eating them is they're 
making them hangry just a few 

888
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,720
hours after they ate. 
And hangry is not normal hunger.

889
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,160
And that is a really important 
take home message from the book.

890
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,960
I talk about it in two chapters.
It's that important that the 

891
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:42,880
absence of hanger is one of the 
most important biomarkers that 

892
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,000
you should be looking for in 
terms of your metabolic health. 

893
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:53,240
If you can go for, you know, 
4681224 hours without feeling 

894
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:59,680
brain fog or shaky or jittery, 
that's a good sign that you are,

895
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,760
that your metabolism is in good 
shape. 

896
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:10,320
But there's a caution there 
because some people are more 

897
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,960
able to metabolize protein into 
energy than others and they, 

898
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:20,280
they don't strongly experience 
these warning symptoms. 

899
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:27,000
So in that case, you have to 
look to the biomarkers and I lay

900
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,680
out what those are in the book 
as well. 

901
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,320
Awesome, awesome. 
Well, I'm super excited for the 

902
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,360
release of the book. 
I've got a copy you officially 

903
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,440
launch in just a few days, if I 
recall correctly. 

904
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,520
It'll be loud by the time this 
podcast goes out, but I think 

905
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,480
it's early, early June, right? 
June 11, yeah. 

906
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,600
June 11th And this is How many 
books again are you now? 

907
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,200
It's the fourth title, but it's 
actually the 5th book because 

908
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:55,680
Deep Nutrition came out 
initially in 2009 and then it 

909
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,440
was updated, re released, 
expanded in 2017, and that was 

910
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,080
like another 200 pages of work. 
Awesome, awesome. 

911
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,680
Well, I, like I said at the very
beginning, have loved all the 

912
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,120
work you've done. 
I think you're a wealth of 

913
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,320
knowledge. 
It's had a profound impact on, 

914
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,080
you know, how I consume things, 
especially as it pertains to our

915
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,440
pregnancy. 
And I just can't thank you 

916
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,640
enough for for fighting the good
fight, putting out this 

917
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,320
information and making it easily
accessible to people that that 

918
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,040
need to hear it and that would 
benefit from it. 

919
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,080
Well, thank you Robert. 
I struggle to make it easily 

920
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,520
accessible because it is really 
complicated, but thank you for 

921
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,720
working through this with me. 
No. 

922
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:32,520
My pleasure. 
I feel like we can probably talk

923
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,720
for another two hours and still 
barely scratch the surface on 

924
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:37,640
the complexity of sea doles, but
this is great. 

925
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,040
This is great. 
And, and where do people go to, 

926
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,280
to get the book, to learn more 
about you, to follow along your 

927
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,360
website, all that good stuff? 
Yeah, please visit my website 

928
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:51,160
whichisdoctorkate.com and that's
spelled DRCA te.com. 

929
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,160
And when you go there, please 
scroll to the bottom and sign up

930
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,040
to my newsletter. 
That way if I do a different 

931
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:58,920
project, a new project, you'll 
be updated. 

932
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:03,920
I don't send out bombard you 
after the like the first three 

933
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,360
just to get to know your emails.
You get, you hear from me about 

934
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:10,720
once a month unless something 
really exciting is happening. 

935
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,400
And the other places you can 
follow me is on social media 

936
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,600
where I my handle is Doctor Kate
Shanahan. 

937
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,600
And again, it's DRCATE Shanahan,
which is my last name. 

938
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:29,880
And that's on Twitter, 
Instagram, Facebook and one more

939
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,040
LinkedIn. 
Beautiful, beautiful. 

940
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,000
Well, I will most definitely 
link out to all those and make 

941
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,640
it easy for people to find you. 
Doctor Kate Shanahan. 

942
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,120
Again, I really appreciate the 
time. 

943
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,280
I appreciate the work you're 
doing. 

944
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,840
If there's ever anything I can 
do to help move the needle in 

945
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,160
any way, just let me know. 
Oh, I appreciate that so much. 

946
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:46,920
Thank you, Robert. 
You bet. 

947
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,720
Take care. 
Thanks.