Well, hello ladies and gents. Robert Sykes Keto Savage Com
Today I've got special guest Matt Dawson on the line and he's
doing all kinds of amazing things.
He's hiked across the Mojave Desert unassisted for days on
end. He's gone through the peaks of
the countries he's gone. He's about to go to the North
Pole. He's doing just awesome hardcore
stuff. And in doing so, he's had this
discovery of self moment. He's found his purpose in life.
He's found what brings him fulfillment.
He's found a way to help others do that as well and just create
multiple charities. And he's just changing people's
lives by doing really cool, challenging things.
So I wanted to get him on the podcast, dive into some of these
challenges that he's overcome and how he's been able to grow
from that and help others do the same.
Got no doubt that you will take something from it, so that
further delay, sit back, relax, enjoy the conversation with Matt
Dawson and we are live. Matt, how are you, man?
Doing well man, listen to all my closest friends call me Dawson
so feel feel free. Dawson All right, I can say
that. Well, I I get pitched podcast
guest all the time, man. Like I honestly like half of
them. I'll take on half of them I'll
decline and they all the agencies like send me, you know,
hit list of topics and like, you know, a couple links and I saw
yours. I'm like, man, this guy's doing
some hard shit and I can appreciate that.
So I just wanted to get you on the podcast.
Talk about that, man. Now, look, I, I appreciate it,
man. It's, it's been, it's been a fun
couple years, got a chance to get out there and get after a
little bit. But you know, more importantly,
we're doing it for a bigger, a bigger purpose.
For Dawson's Peak Foundation, you had to hopefully motivate
people to live lives of greater purpose, not only for
themselves, but being of service to others.
You know, and more importantly, we've raised a good amount of
money for our charity partners on this, the Gary Sinise
Foundation and Hope for the Warriors, which are two of the
highest rated veteran focused charities in the country.
I love it. I love it.
I'm I'm not a veteran. Are you a veteran?
No, it's so I was at the Naval Academy for a year, but I don't
claim to be a veteran in in any way.
It's funny because I'm like I said, I'm not a veteran either,
but I've got some friends that they hosted or they host the 50
mile March every year to raise money for homeless vets.
And we do A50 mile March from Lincoln to Omaha, NE through the
night, last 22 hours to kind of represent 22 vets to take their
lives daily. And like we raise a ton of money
for that. And again, I'm not a vet, but
like when I crossed that line and you've got hundreds of
people there that have served in the military there.
They know people that are their families there.
It's like, man, it's an emotional experience.
No, it is, man. And look, it's, you know, I've
had a chance to, to read about you and all the great stuff that
that you've done in your life. But it's, it's, you know, you've
seen it. It's so important to get out of
our head, not to be solely in our heads, but to get down into
our bodies and in to move freely between the two because that,
that's how we operate at our best.
And when you're doing these types of things, you know, those
kinds of activities, it really helps pull you down into your
body. So you, you just get to
experience things on a different level.
And also it allows you to connect with people on a, on a
deeper level. So it's wonderful you've got a
chance to do that. Yeah, 100%, man.
There's like there's a beautiful thing that happens when you're
suffering alongside others for A cause bigger than yourself.
Look, I couldn't have said that any better.
That was you said that perfectly.
Well, well, give me some back story man.
What got you interested in this? I mean, you talked about living
life with purpose. Like a lot of people have no
clue what their purpose is. They don't know how to find it.
So how did how did all that come to be for you?
What was your origin story? Well, look, that that was me for
a long time is, you know, in a nutshell.
And we can delve into any portions of this, you know,
deeper that you want to. But, and, you know, basically
when I was 30, about 38 years old, back in 2017, is I'd
reached a certain level of success professionally.
And I was, I was living a comfortable life and, you know,
in the Hollywood Hills and had, you know, cars and motorcycles
and could, you know, get what I wanted with, you know, buy what
I wanted within reason, all that kind of stuff.
And, and I'd worked my butt off, you know, for years.
And you for, you know, long time and investment banking, working
80 to 100 hours a week. And, and, you know, from the
outside, I think I had a life that that people thought, you
know, you would want to have, but on the inside is I was just
basically dead. Is I was just disconnected from
myself, disconnected from others.
I struggled to feel any real gamut of emotions, positive
emotions. So I could feel, you know,
anger, frustration and, and, you know, confusion, but I couldn't
feel joy and contentment and connection.
And, you know, I had a hard I had a very hard time receiving
love and and myself worth was based on performance, you know,
those kinds of things. And at that, at that time and
again, I think a lot of people can relate to that.
There's nothing unique about, you know, my my struggle in that
sense. But that same time is I broke up
with a serious girlfriend. My mother passed away and I just
reached kind of that inflection point where I was either ready
to, you know, you know, potentially kill myself or to go
to buy back into life and start living in a, in a better way.
And I traveled to Nepal, spent three weeks hiking alone around
the Mount Everest region and on that trip, and I had no previous
experience with that whatsoever. If it, if I couldn't even told
you where Everest was on a map #1 And secondly, if someone said
let's go climb a mountain or go trek around or whatever, I'm
like, you're an idiot. That sounds terrible.
I have no desire to even talk about it, let alone do it.
But for some reason, something called to me and, and said,
that's where you need to go. And I was there and I had a
breakdown and a breakthrough. And on that trip I just, you
know, I was, I, I finally, I started to understand the, the
meaning of strength and surrender and what it is to
surrender and, and how that can benefit in our lives if we
incorporate it properly at the, at the right times.
And something spoke to me on that trip and said, listen,
you're in, you're, you're hurting.
The reason you're hurting is because you're not living with
any sense of purpose. And your life is only about you.
And in that moment, my life changed forever.
And over the next couple years, I began to came up, come up with
the idea of Dawson's Peak Foundation, you know, starting
to charity and, and trying to live a life of greater purpose.
And I came to realize that that my purpose in life is to help
others avoid that place where I was lost for so many decades.
You know, I, I know it is to be lost alone in the darkness, to
be confused and isolated and, and scared all the time and
angry all the time and, and all that.
And it's a horrible place to be. And I want to try to help
people, you know, find, develop, discover and offer their their
purpose to the world and avoid, you know, what I went through
for so many decades all alone. So, you know, in a nutshell,
that's kind of, you know, getting from where we were to
where we are today. I love it, man.
I definitely want to dive into the surrendering because I think
that's super, super important. I want to talk about the
breakthrough and the breakdown. But before we get there, like
when you when you were, you know, alluding to your earlier
life finding success in career banking, commercial banking
rather, and you having all the the, you know, frills that
people aspire to. I thought there's a lot of
people that have that and they're completely unhappy, but
they don't voice that unhappiness because for whatever
reason, lots of different reasons, but a lot of people
that are not there and they look at that and they, they see these
people that are masquerading around as if they are on top of
the world and are truly fulfilled.
So they aspire to emulate that in some form or fashion.
They try to acquire the things that have this materialistic
approach. They think that money buys them
happiness to some extent or another.
So could you kind of just break that down like what you felt in
that setting? Because when people aspire to
get to that setting, but they don't even know what it is
that's driving that internal motivation.
If you don't have like some sense of fulfilment, then no
thing in the world that you can purchase is going to bring it to
you. No, I, I think you said that
very well. And I've, I've been on both ends
of the ends of the spectrum in the sense that I, I've, and I've
been where I've had, you know, negative money in my bank
account And it hanging over my, my office desk is a statement I
received, you know, 20 something years ago from the bank where I
went and bought like a pack of peanuts or something.
And it sent my account negative and they charged me, you know,
whatever 10 bucks I literally had minus, you know, $10 to my
name, to being in a place where I was comfortable and and within
reason could have what I wanted, you know, could have what I
want. And having been in those two
positions is I can tell you definitively, just because you
have money or means or resources or assets does not guarantee
that you're going to be in a better place psychologically,
emotionally, spiritually, anything like that.
And to your point is, is far too often, especially today with the
proliferation of social media and such a enormous
concentration on consumerism and capitalism and, and all this
kind of stuff and, and just kind of trying to get what's next and
trying to do more. It's always about more these
days. It's say more to listen to more,
watch more, buy more, do more. All these things is normally
that's the road to to isolation and despair and discontentment.
And with what the surrender is is we've we've got to find ways
of reconnecting with ourselves and really that the basis of
surrender. And this is all in the in the
new book that we discussed. We're getting on my new book
strength and surrender that just launched on January 7th is
surrender is not giving up and going along and just giving in.
Surrender is finding new, more beneficial ways of meeting our
needs. And that's something that just
really it, it can be very confusing.
It can be very intimidating, can be very scary, but it's the, the
more I've been able to, to kind of lay the arms down and to stop
fighting everything and to stop trying to just fill my life up
with more stuff to where I now try to simplify my life.
And I try to simplify my actions and my thoughts and, and all
these things. And just really let, let these
fears and concerns and hesitations and trepidations to
flow through me. You know, to flow into me.
But more importantly, to release them effectively where I don't
allow them to move me as much and I don't enable them to take
root within me and sit there for years and years and years like I
did before it. It's a very challenging thing to
do, but the more that we're all able to effectively do it, I can
just guarantee you the better you're going to feel.
Was there a a specific moment when you were out hiking?
Where like before you recognize the need to surrender, where you
were still holding on to everything so tightly and
recognize that what you were doing was not sustainable, not
effective. Like what was the the moment?
What? Or was there even an acute aha
moment? Oh, there was 100% and it it's a
longer story. So I'll, I'll really kind of
pair it down and we can go, we can delve into a deeper if you
want to. But I was in this tiny village
called Tengboche, which is about four days walk from Lucala,
which is the gateway airport into Everest.
And I had a chance to join a Buddhist service there at the
largest Buddhist monastery in the area.
And I'm talking only about 30 people live in this village.
You know, you walk in, you walk out, there's no roads.
And for about an hour is I was sitting alone in a monastery in
a room full of chanting monks. And during that time I was just
it just enveloped in these waves of energy that were so intense
that it was literally difficult to breathe at points.
It, it just, it was just hitting me with such energy or such
intensity rather. And after that, after that
service is I was walking back across this village and I
stopped and leaned against a stupa, which is a small
religious temple. And I'm looking right at Mount
Everest. And Everest is still like four
days away, but she's so large, you can clearly see her.
And you know, the, it's maybe about 7:00 in the morning and
the sun's rising, you know, behind, behind Everest and the
clouds are kind of partying and, and the sun's shooting down to
the Cumbu Valley. And it's, it's, it's picturesque
as you can possibly imagine any scene anywhere in the world.
And I'm just trying to take it in and out of nowhere, I just
start bawling like a child, like uncontrollable bawling.
And I roll over to my left side, onto my left side, and I'm in
the fetal position in the dirt, which is spit and snot going
everywhere into time. I'm 242 lbs.
I've got a beard nearly down to my chest.
And I was in, I don't think I've ever been in such emotional and
physical pain like I was in such a tight ball.
It was excruciating emotionally and physically.
And for the first time in my life, it, my instinct wasn't to
fight. But something inside of me told
me, whatever this is, you need to experience this.
So don't try to fight it. Don't try to rationalize it.
Don't try to understand it. Don't try to justify it.
Don't try to do anything. Just shut up and take this.
And that lasted for maybe about 10-15 minutes.
And I then I stood up and I'm like, what the what the hell is
that? Am I losing my mind or like,
what's going on? And I walked into a small tea
house where I was staying and the owner brought me a bowl of
oatmeal for breakfast. I go take a first, my first bite
and I lose it again. And now there's probably 10
people around me. I'm embarrassed, so I'm covering
my face and I'm just crying uncontrollably in this bowl of
oatmeal. And I cried so long and so hard.
I watched my tears fill up the bowl on top of that oatmeal.
I'm we're talking volume crying here.
And when I raised my head, the 10/10/12 other people in the
room had just cleared the room. Like I think they thought I was
going crazy at that point, you know, and I looked up into the
back, the back right corner of the room and something spoke to
me And to different people, it'll be different things.
You can call it God, an energy field, the universe, a
collective unconscious, whatever it is.
And it said two things to me. And it's what I mentioned
earlier. It said you're not living with a
sense of purpose and your life is only about you.
And the the key is when I heard it, I didn't hear it with my
ears. I didn't hear it like someone
was standing next to me is I heard it with my heart.
I heard it with my body. I heard it with every fiber and
cell, you know, I heard it with every version of myself that
I've ever been or could possibly ever be like it.
It, it, it, it permeated me in a way that nothing had ever had,
you know, before that time. And so that really in that
moment, my life changed forever and I knew it.
And for the first time my life, I really understood the power
and magnitude of every single second where where our lives can
change forever. We'll never go back to being the
same, positive or negative. And that's why it's so important
not to waste our time and our energy thinking, oh, this is
just whatever it is, you know, fill in the blank.
Because we never know when our lives will change for good or
bad at any given second. What do you think it was I spoke
to you? That's a, you know what?
That's a great question. And I've done more interviews
than I can count lately and no one has ever asked that
question. And I love that you asked that
question is I think it was me is I think I was finally able to
connect with myself in a way that had been lost very early on
in childhood for a variety of reasons.
And a reason I say that is so often when we, when we feel
confused and lost and isolated and you know, and all these
things, we have a habit of turning outward for the answers.
And sometimes that's certainly a, a beneficial thing to do
because it's important to bring in other resources or other
people to get to get different knowledge or perspective or help
or whatever. But I think more times than not,
we have the answers we're looking for deep inside of us,
but we've lost the ability to to hear ourselves, to connect with
ourselves. So I think I was probably
reconnecting with myself and was finally able to do that on on a
level that I was looking for for so long unknowingly.
What, what did you do after that?
Like what was the next thing you did after that moment?
Like what did the trajectory change and shift to?
So that I think that's a fantastic question because at
that point I felt like I, I kind of started to discover my path.
And but when you hear about people get on the path, the next
assumption is that the rest of the journey is just care bears
and gum drops and rainbows and butterflies.
And it's just, you know, you're on easy street, which for which
I've discovered is, is very much not the answer or not, not the
case rather. So after that, over the rest of
the trip, the trip became less about being out there climbing,
about making it to base camp, about making it to different
regions I was going to. And it's more about self
discovery and kind of working to connect with myself deeper and
deeper. And over the next couple years
is I, I continue to travel around as I was able to with,
with work and I climbed 3 of the highest peaks on, on the seven
continents and, and began to really fall in love with
adventure and endurance training and, and mountain climbing.
And it was on those trips I, I figured out, you know, maybe
there's a way I can combine my new passion for adventure in a
way to help people, you know, to make my life about more than
myself. So I got with a good friend of
mine, Jay Jablonski, and he and I came up with the, the, the
roots of Dawson's Peak Foundation, which is a 5O1C3
that we operate today. And then we, we, you know, our
mission is to inspire the discovery pursuit of individual
purpose and to get people to understand that our lives are
about more than ourselves. So we need to apply, you know,
we need to shift from being self-centered to service
centered. And the way that we do that is
we create large, global, large scale global expeditions where
we sponsor athletes, where viewers can draw parallels
between themselves or athletes and to say, hey, if this person
is doing whatever it is, climbing a mountain, rowing an
ocean, crossing a desert, you know, flying a plane, whatever,
I can do something comparable in my life.
And with our new, with our first project, it's called 7 for
Soldiers, where I've set over the past couple years, I've set,
I've set six world records and a variety of, of expedition and
adventure related activities. And like I said, we've raised a
bunch of money for, for Gary Sneeze Foundation hope for the
warriors. And so we're just kind of on the
cusp of, of just continuing to, to build the organization.
But in in a nutshell, that was kind of the the couple years
following that. I love it man.
So you you bringing these people in to do some form of expedition
for their own sense of discovery.
No, so the the way that it works is, is that we have athletes
that we work with. So this first project 7 for
Soldiers is I'm the athlete, I'm kind of the Guinea pig to see,
you know, what we want to do, what works, what doesn't work.
And then and Seven for Soldiers is going to be completed
hopefully this April when I go to the North Pole and ski to the
North Pole. And then subsequently, when we
work with with, you know, going forward is we'll have different
people that, that we'll bring in.
But more importantly, as viewers can watch those athletes and
say, you know, then draw parallels between themselves and
the athlete to say, Hey, if this person is doing this, I can do
something comparable in my life. But also we're looking at
creating different, different learning programs, different
educational programs that we can present to, you know, schools
and civic groups and different organizations to help people
understand, you know, what our lives are about.
How do you identify your purpose?
How do you live with a greater sense of purpose?
How do you apply that sense of purpose to elevate others?
You know, things like that? I love it, man.
I love it. What do you what?
What were the six world records? I'm curious.
Yeah. So it's they, it's, it's kind of
how it's kind of how you compile different activities.
So from the 12 originally, we're trying to get everything done in
12 months, and that was going to go from May 2021 to May 2022 or
April 2022. And that included climbing the
highest peak on each continent, skiing to the North Pole and the
South Pole. And those things together is
known as the Explorer's Grand Slam.
And then skiing, I'm sorry, trekking solo and unsupported
across the Mojave Desert and Death Valley, become the first
person ever do that, rowing a boat across the Atlantic Ocean
and then flying a plane around the world.
So we were able to accomplish everything that we set out to,
except for the North Pole, which got cancelled because of COVID.
And in the plane which got cancelled because of COVID and
it's kind of like how you put all those different activities
together will get you to the six world records like for.
So it's just kind of like how you combine the different
activities. What's been the hardest one for
you thus far? It's in terms of a pure physical
challenge. It's actually an event that we
added late where in 2021 I became the first person to go
solo and unsupported across the Mojave Desert in Death Valley.
I did 213 miles in six days and 23 hours.
But then earlier this year as I went back and did another
crossing in the Mojave where it was just under 330 miles in
seven day, just over 7 days and eight hours.
And I became the 1st or the fastest person to ever cross the
Mojave on foot. That and that was also so
unsupported. But on that particular, you
know, track is I was moving for 20 hours a day, sleeping for
less than three, you know, and it was 90 plus degrees, you
know, out there got over, you know, 100 points and travelled,
like I said, 329 and, and about 1/2 miles in just over 7 days.
So that that was probably the most physically challenging
event. And you're, I mean you're doing
this unsupported, so you've got no support van stocking you.
No, nothing. Yeah.
So unsupported. Yeah, Yeah, So unsupported.
The two desert crossings have been so unsupported.
So is I carry everything that that I need from, you know, the
water, the food, the, you know, medical, absolutely everything.
And I do have, you know, I do have people on standby in Los
Angeles. But in order to get this last
one, the 330 mile crossing is I, I failed my first two attempts
at it. The first time I made it 152
miles and I developed a real bad bacterial infection in my leg
and had to call the team to come pick me up.
And that took, you know, 5-5 or six hours.
So I'm laying out in the desert with a within, you know, bad
infection in my leg. And in the second time I made it
152 miles coincidentally, and my cart broke and had to wait
another six hours to come get picked up.
So there there is some support, you know, out there, but it's,
you know, a long time away. But it when I'm out there, I'm
I'm totally alone. So when you're doing that, what,
what are the breaking points like?
What, what starts giving out for you first?
Is it like your feet? Is it like your knees?
Is it just like what? What's going down?
That's like the biggest pain points.
Yeah. You know, from a physical
perspective it is the lower body it's in to your point is
primarily, you know, kind of work your way out from feet to
ankles into the hips. And the reason being is that
most of my training focuses on more vertical type terrain.
So I'm carrying packs up mountains.
And so I'm not, I'm not a big distance guy.
And you go from from not doing, you know, I'll go out and I'll
run, you know, whatever, 8 miles to 20 miles, something like that
in a train and run. But there's a big difference
between going 10 miles and going 300 miles.
You're going 10 miles a day and going 55 miles a day.
So those are the things that that kind of breakdown first, or
are the feet, ankles, knees, hips.
And then I've had, you know, 5-4 or five shoulder surgeries now.
So when I'm when I'm going is it's hard to keep my feeling in
my hands, my shoulders go numb, have like nerve impingements,
you know, things like that. But it's interesting.
Yeah, we talked about a little bit earlier about what are the
hardest elements and, and look, I know you've done, you know, a
lot of challenging things as well.
The the competition and training that that you've done is, you
know, the physical elements are one thing, but the hardest thing
of all this stuff is just staying in it mentally.
For sure. Is, you know, when you get hurt
and you're, you're there and you're alone and, and you're
isolated and you're tired and you're like, why the hell am I
doing this? I could be doing other things or
you know, whatever it is or you're not in a good mood or you
feel sick or you feel whatever it is is just staying locked in
mentally and understanding, you know, why you're doing what
you're doing, why it's important to you and why it's about more
than yourself and using that motivation or to kind of push
through those hard times. So what what's your style up
there meant? Like you listening to podcasts,
audiobooks, you totally just no sound, no distractions.
Like how do you, how do you try? And yeah.
No, is I'm totally isolated. So on any of my expeditions, you
know, the desert expeditions, I never take any music.
No, nothing with me when I train in the mountains, no music, no
nothing. The the road across the across
the Atlantic Ocean was no music, no nothing.
So it's, it's I enjoy being, I enjoy the isolation and and the
challenge of the isolation. So with that is I want to, I
want to experience that to its absolute fullest, because the
the point of doing this stuff is not just to get from one side to
the other is I want, I want to grow in the process.
I want to challenge myself. I want to come out with a better
understanding of myself. And it's amazing is how our
minds work. Because when you first start
something like this, your mind's in one place and then a day
later it's in another place. And two days later it's in
another place and a week later you're in another place.
And I, I want to give my mind the space to, to make that
transition. And I find that being as
isolated as I can, you know, helps in that pursuit.
I love it, man. I need to get you hooked up with
some freaking keto bricks, man. You're taking seven days across
the desert like you need some keto bricks, lightweight 1000
calorie nutrition bars or something.
Oh dude, that those sound perfect, Yeah.
What? What do you do for food?
I'm curious. Well, on this, on this last one,
it depends on the expedition, but for example, is most
expeditions, the the primary source of food are freeze dried
meals, you know, because, you know, we're not, we're not
starting campfires and you know, stuff like that.
But it will have, you know, little jet bowls or, or
honestly, as I've been doing this so long now that I don't
even boil the food or bowl. The water is I just put the food
in, put some water in it a couple hours before I want it
and just eat, eat cold meals just because it's easier and and
I'm lazy and I got enough stuff to do.
I don't want to carry, Plus I don't want to carry a jet bowl
and fuel and all that kind of stuff.
So freeze dried meals are, are the primary source.
But then there's is just a lot of kind of cheap packaged junk
food on top of that. And reason being is that you're
not carrying fresh vegetable vegetables, you're not carrying
fresh fruits, you know, things like that for a variety of
reasons. And you want something that's
very, very calorie dense and, you know, full of sugar, full of
fat. You don't need as much protein.
Like I, I, I take my protein maybe about 150 grams, where
normally I'm, I'm maybe around 220-5250 a day 'cause you, you
just, you really need the, the, the, the, the carbohydrates and
the fat and you want more like simple sugars and then you throw
the fat on top of that. But you know, a lot of times
also, it's just, you want stuff that you can just get down.
Where if you're out there, you'd rather have a, a Snickers bar
than something that, that doesn't taste as good because
you're already not in a great place, you know, emotionally.
So you want something that can maybe lift your spirits a little
bit higher? Yeah, I'm gonna hook you up for
sure, man. Put some bricks in your next
pack and you'll be. Now look, I would, I would love
to try them as I'm always looking for good things.
And look, as you know, with again, all the stuff that you do
is ideally you want to put the best quality fuel in your body
that you possibly can. And if you can avoid putting
just pure junk in there, you know you want to.
So I'm I'm always looking for new options A. 100% I love the
surrender component, the man. Cuz like when I was in my last
prep 2023 rated 5 shows, I got down to 3.9% body fat and I'm
like super depleted there at the end.
And I was like I didn't ever get crazy emotional that prep like I
had in years prior. I was just very stoic throughout
the whole ordeal. But there was this moment I
vividly remember I was, I was laying down at some Airbnbs, you
know, bedroom that we had booked out for a competition.
And I was just sitting there like praying.
And I was doing things that I'd never been able to do before.
And it just came easier than it ever had before.
And I was, it was because I had totally surrendered, like I'm a
very type A just driven, you know, balls to all kind of guy.
And that has worked well for me in a lot of areas.
But there comes a point when, like, to get to the next tier,
the next level up in life, it's like if you're wound so tight,
holding on to everything and trying to control everything,
you're only going to, you know, dismantle your progress.
Like if you actually surrender that and then just push through
it, you're going to be able to reach a much higher high.
There's look again, you said, you said that perfectly is that
you can't fight everything. And I've spent my entire life
fighting everything. And to your point is that can
only take you so far. And you know, there's, there's
that old expression that if, if the only tool you have is a
hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Is that as we grow, you know, our, I think we're, I think
we're only here for for two reasons.
One is to live with a sense of purpose and then apply that
purpose to elevate others. Is, is, is one.
And then secondly is to grow. And life is about growth period.
And the way that we grow is by expanding our, our tools, you
know, and understanding what we can apply in different
situations. And so I think exactly what you
talked about is, is a great example of of a type of
surrender and the benefits that that we can achieve from it.
Totally. Would you work with people that
are looking to find their purpose?
Do you? Do you do you feel like as a
society we are trending in the right direction, the wrong
direction as a whole? Like do you feel like there are
more people having discovered that sense of self and purpose
and selflessness? Or do you feel like the majority
is kind of trending the opposite direction?
It's funny if you ask that I was talking about that yesterday
with a, with a very good friend of mine, because, you know,
right now is, is, as we mentioned before, we got on as
I'm in Los Angeles, we've got the fires going on and, and my
girlfriend and I were evacuated the other day from her place
where it got within, you know, a block of us.
And so that there's a lot of, you know, this kind of
discussions going on right now. And, and it's great to see that
people are stepping up and, and helping each other and, and
being there for each other. So it's very wonderful to see.
But that being said, I think in a, in a greater general sense is
I am, and this is not everything.
This is just in a general sense is I'm very discouraged from
what I'm seeing is that I think more and more, especially with
the proliferation of social media and a lot of these, a lot
of these social programs that are, that are prioritizing sex
and race and gender and all this kind of stuff is we're creating
more division than we are unity. And it's is which it, it
absolutely breaks my heart. Is it it, it really does.
I get pretty, you know, pretty emotional about it and just, I
feel like more times than not now people are, are just saying,
you know, what can I do to further myself in my life
because I'm the most important thing in my world.
And it's just I'm telling you that's that's just the wrong way
to look at it is that we're all we all matter, but none of us
are important. Like you're not important.
I'm not important. My father's not important, you
know, but we all matter. And I think that more far too
often we are becoming the center of our lives and we think that
we're important or we, we, we feel the need to be important,
which is taking us down the wrong Rd.
Because that's what leads to what we talked about earlier
about wanting to get more followers, more likes, buy more
this, buy a bigger house, get this, get this, and just doing
more and filling our lives up with more.
And I think that some people are, are starting to kind of see
that and, and diverting to a different path.
And I am hearing more discussions about, about purpose
and contribution, which I think is wonderful.
But in, in a general sense, I think right now we're, we're not
in a good place and it it's unfortunate to see.
Yeah, it's interesting, man. I think about this a lot.
Like, I feel like if you, you know, rewind the clock 100
years, there obviously wasn't the social media, so there
wasn't as much of this comparison game taking place
because there just simply wasn't that reach that we have today.
But I feel like 100 years ago, people had a much better pulse
on their purpose because their purpose was to simply provide
for their family, give them a safe place to to live to, you
know, raise their kids, be better than they were.
And that fight in and of itself wasn't easy.
And that created purpose, you know, just by default.
Whereas now it's, I mean, you definitely still have people
that are, that are hurting, people that are challenged.
I mean, there's lots, lots of obstacles now.
But like it's, it's become much easier to just get by, to find a
way for food, find a way for shelter.
Like it's become easier to meet the bare necessities.
And a lot of people take that easy path.
And if they check those boxes, like, OK, they got food, water,
shelter, then I'm succeeding in a sense.
But like, because they're taking that easier path and they're not
digging deeper, and because it's easier to do that basic thing,
you've stripped people of just the default purpose that comes
with, you know, living life. Well, I think there's we need, I
think we need to flip this around while I start
interviewing you because I feel like you're giving better
answers than I am right now, No. No, no, not at all, man.
I look, I think you, I think you said that again.
I think, I think you said that so well, and I agree with it, is
that unfortunately, like for, for example, the term hack, I
can't stand the word hack on a on a variety of levels.
And it's everybody's looking for or most people are looking for
the easiest ways to do fill in the blank.
And I firmly believe we were all made to do hard things, not just
me, not just you. I mean, everybody on this planet
I think is made to do hard things.
I think we'd love to do hard things.
And I've never in my life met anybody that has done something
hard, that has gotten through it, that has sat back and said I
really wish I didn't do that. I wish I didn't accomplish that.
I wish I hadn't pushed myself. I wish I hadn't grown.
I wish I hadn't developed. I wish I had just found the
couch and eaten some Cheetos and watch cartoons.
I've never heard anybody say that.
And you know, to your point is we, we are at a, at a weird
transition point in, in the lives of or in, in human
history. So I'm trying to grant some
grace with that where, you know, 100 years ago, you know, purpose
was survival or 200 years ago or 500 years ago, purpose was
survival. You know, and now, because to
your point is, we have that just handed to us on a, on a
frequent, such a frequent basis is we don't understand now what
to do with our time, what do with ourselves, what do with our
application of our, you know, abilities and things like that.
And I think that's where a lot of people do feel lost.
But you know, when you're feeling lost, the answer is not
speeding up and doing more and put more in your life.
The answer is slowing down, taking stuff out of your life,
looking for more quality rather than quantity and looking to
connect and looking to contribute, you know, those
types of things. And that's where that's where
people are getting confused because we're constantly
inundated by people trying to sell us products and services
and, and, you know, things like that.
Yeah, I think we live in a day and age where like you have to
seek out and create some form of self-imposed hardship because it
doesn't come naturally in your environment anymore.
I mean, yeah, there's, there's hard days and easy days and
whatnot, but like, you have to actually go out of your way to
seek out hardship. And it takes a special kind of
masochist to want to do that. But I'm definitely fitting that
criteria as you are as well. But like, once you do it, like
it just bleeds into every component of your life and
everything benefits from it. But I feel like, you know,
adversity is the antidote, so to speak.
Like the way to cure all of this is to seek out hard things to
do. No, I absolutely agree with you.
But at the same time is I think it's immensely important to show
the appreciation for being in the position we are where we
have the opportunity to say that, you know, meaning if, if
we're in say, in, you know, Kiev right now, you know, parts of
Ukraine, parts of Russia, or we were, you know, forced labour in
a cobalt mine in Africa, you know, obviously we would be
having a, a different discussion than we are now.
So I think for us to, to be in that position where we're,
we're, we're where we need and want to introduce, you know, for
lack of a better term, artificial hardships into our
lives are we're, we're unbelievably fortunate.
Like we are the absolute top of the food chain of anybody that's
ever existed, you know, on this planet throughout human history.
And I don't mean you and I as in particular, as particular
individuals. I mean just where we are right
now in the United States in this day and age, you know, so we're,
we're unbelievably fortunate. But with that is, I think it's
immensely important to show appreciation for that position.
And I think again, far too often is we're so caught up with
wanting more or something different or something, you
know, whatever is, we don't take the time to really appreciate
what we have in our lives. And I don't mean, you know,
whether it could be a car, it could be your house, it could be
whatever. But it can also be something as
simple as have the ability to see, have the ability to hear,
have the ability to walk, to think, to talk to.
I mean, it's like you can take this stuff down to a granular,
granular level. And the more appreciation that
we can find in our lives and we can, you know, demonstrate in
our lives, the the better that we're going to feel and the
easier it is to kind of get on this path and to maintain this
path and, you know, and to find the path.
Yeah. No, 100% completely agree, man.
Do you do any like journaling or anything like that to, to
actionably have like like a lot of people are big on, you know,
gratitude journals, things like that.
Do you do any of that? You know, is I, I don't journal
is I've given journaling, to be quite honest with you, is I've
given journaling a rough time over the years where I talk
about in the book where I absolutely loathe journaling
for, for a long time. And there's nothing wrong with
it. It's just the way that I work
and the way my brain works. I just, I just didn't like it.
But what I did find was when I, when I was on this trip to
Everest is I did start keeping a journal and stuff was just
pouring out of me and just heaps and volumes and journaling
enabled me to connect concepts and emotions and, and feelings
in, in a more complex way than I was when I wasn't journaling.
You know, we're now saying say, oh, maybe I can tie this emotion
to this emotion to this outcome. And because it was so
complicated, I, I couldn't hold on to it mentally.
But when I saw it, you know, visually, I was able to, to
great gain a better, excuse me, a better understanding.
So I, I think there's definitely benefits to journal, although I
don't do it on a daily basis. One thing that I, that I do is
that the very last thing before I go to bed every night is I've
got 4 personal questions next to my bed.
And I just read the questions to myself and I ask the questions,
you know, ask my, ask myself these questions regarding, on my
conduct and actions during the day.
And then I, I literally get on my knees to humble myself and to
just show appreciation for a couple minutes to whatever, you
know, to whatever power that you want to do it to.
And just to say, you know, thank you for this and for this.
And it's not, I don't go down just like a list in my head, but
I just kind of sit there. I get quiet and I humble myself
and I just try to sit in appreciation for all the the
opportunities and resources and abilities I have in my life.
Yeah, I love that format, man. I feel like I'm, I'd be able to
sustain that much more so than I would, you know, consistent
journaling habit. Are we Privy to those four
questions by chance? Yeah, so four questions.
The first was, was I of service to others?
The second is, was IA light or a leader?
Meaning, you know, was I, was I light in the lives of others or
were they able to, you know, to lead people in a, in a positive
way? The third was, did I listen?
And the fourth is, did I push myself to get outside of my
comfort zone? I like it.
Yeah, I've. I've had that sitting there for
for years next to us out of the bed.
No, that's good man. I like that.
Very actionable for sure. Well, talk to me a little bit
about the the format going. I mean, I'm curious before I
even go there. Do you have kids by chance?
No, I don't. No kids?
You think you've ever had kids? No, it's like that's a, that's a
whole another topic. I was actually discussing that
yesterday with my girlfriend. No, it's look is I've, I've
never had any desire to have kids, you know, personally, I
think they're, to be quite honest with you, I think there's
already too many people on this planet, you know, secondly, but
if I did ever want to have kids is I would rather adopt because
I know there's, there's a lot of kids that that need help.
And I think I would be, I'd be providing a better service, you
know, by adopting than than having more.
No, I totally respect that man. I feel like we need, we need
people teaching the youth these exact same principles.
So that would be a a worthwhile thing for sure.
Yeah, maybe on down the line, but this point you don't
anticipate anything. Well, you got the book coming
out, man. You got the book.
I guess it's now live. So kind of breakdown the format
of the book. Like how do you have that
structured? I'm assuming kind of like
letting people know, you know, what their passion is, what
their discovery of self could potentially look like, what
their sense of fulfillment entails.
Like how does that broken down? Yeah.
Now, look, I appreciate, yeah, ask.
And so the, the book is called Strength in Surrender.
So Strength IN Surrender, it launched on Amazon on January
7th. So so we're just under a week
and it's already hit #1 best seller in a couple categories.
But more importantly than just, you know, another book in the
space because look, there, there's been some wonderful
works in this space, you know, from mountain climbing and ocean
rowing and, and just adventure stuff.
And I've read a ton of them and, and I'm not being, you know,
disparaging at all with about them, but I wanted to create
something different is I wanted to hit the the reader on a
visceral, emotional kind of human level and to make the work
about more than just me. I didn't want to have another
book saying, Hey, look what I did here and then look what I
did here. Now here's some more about me
than here's some more about me than, oh, here's something else
about me, you know, is I wanted to to to tell my story.
So it's a personal narrative from from early childhood
through and, you know, college where I had a couple, then I had
a couple offers to play professional football, getting
into investment banking, where I became a managing director with
a bank in LA, you know, selling companies valued between 50
million and and 300 million. And then kind of walking away
from all that to a large degree and founding the charity and,
you know, setting multiple world records and, and this really the
discovery of self, you know, along the way.
So it really is a story about about redemption, about finding
purpose, about applying purpose, about living for others.
And the way that that we set it up is that I commissioned an
artist to to do all the artwork in the book.
So it's it's all, you know, unique, one off stuff that's
really trying to hit people on a on a on a very emotional level,
where we kind of open you up in a way to receive the the
information in a in a different capacity.
And then each, almost every chapter has an excerpt from my
personal journals of that particular expedition, which I
never thought would be published.
I never intended them to be published because they're very
raw. Some of them are very, you know,
have some pretty, you know, colorful language in it and very
personal things. But I thought it was important
to get people to understand that we're all going through the same
things. We're all looking for the same
things. We're just trying to go about it
in different ways and then each chapter is main.
Mainly each chapter is a narration.
Within that narration there are there are basically smaller
lessons that I've learned that are broken out and isolated in
each chapter where it kind of just breaks out into something
we can all apply. Then at the end of every chapter
there's a section called meditation, which are the main
pillars that I've learned. It's like the 13 like biggest
things I've learned incorporate on a daily basis.
And then finally, sections called ask yourself and apply
yourself, where during ask yourself is you can ask yourself
3 or 4 very simple, poignant questions where you can apply
the text to your journey. And then the apply yourself
section are just, you know, one or two paragraphs in each
chapter that are direct, actionable items where you can
take what you've read and instantly apply it to your life
and, and start something today. So I apologize, I know that's a
lot, but that's, you know, there's kind of a lot going on
with the with the work. No, no, I love them, man.
And so people can get that on Amazon.
Is it like a website that you'd prefer them to go to?
Yeah, the right Amazon is the easiest thing right now.
So the the paperback and the Kindle are both available on
Amazon. And then the audiobook, we just
finished that up and it should be available probably within the
next week or so. Were you the narrator?
Unfortunately, I was, yeah. And I, I'll be honest with you,
if I hear myself talk for another 10 seconds, I'm going to
shoot somebody. Well, let me let me ask you one
more question so you can hear yourself talk just one final
time here. This might be coming at the left
field for you, but I've had several people on the podcast
that are in the health nutrition mindset space.
And a lot of them talk about what you've just described, but
they talk about it through the the use of like psychedelics and
things as acting as, as a catalyst to having this
discovery of self surrendering, all that, all that jazz.
I've never gone down that rabbit hole.
I'm curious, have you do you have any thoughts on it or do
you just prefer to do it, you know through physical exertation
or how do you, how do you view that?
That it's a challenging question because obviously, and I think,
but I think it's a very poignant one because of the proliferation
and the popularity of a variety of psychedelics right now.
And you know, with my network is, is I've got friends that are
involved in a variety of different organizations that
work with, you know, veterans or, or, you know, people that
have have endured trauma, different things.
And they're looking for different tools to explore these
different avenues and to try to learn about themselves and to
connect with themselves and to get past and deal with trauma
and to grow and, you know, all that kind of stuff.
So I think that the psychedelics without question can be used
effectively in that regard where, you know, I've
experienced personally and I know people that have that have
tried different psychedelics that have that have come out in
a better place where they're able to gain a better
understanding, maybe release some things, surrender to A to a
greater degree. You know, so without question
that there's definitely benefits to it.
But to tie it back to our conversation a few minutes ago
is I think a lot of people are not using them in the right ways
with the right intentions at the right times.
Yeah. So for you for not you for but
for someone just to, you know, take out hand handful a handful
of mushrooms or go do some ayahuasca and somebody'd garage
or something like that is completely different than
setting intention, getting your mind right, getting your body
right, getting, you know, getting everything kind of
straight and going in there to do some to do some real work.
So I think it depends on on how you approach it.
But like anything else, it's a tool that, used in the right
way, can be effective or can be abused if not used in the
correct way. Yeah, no, I, I totally agree
with that. So if if the the drugs become
the quote UN quote hack that you and I both dislike, it's it's
it's no bueno. Exactly.
It's, it's, it's, it's kind of like Maslow's hierarchy of
needs. You know, it's that you've got
to have the base before you have the peak there.
There's a great sand and endurance training is the bigger
the base, the bigger the peak is.
You can't just start up at the top.
And just like, you know, a great example is with all the stuff
that you've done for years and years with your, you know,
preparation and, and training and in the bodybuilding, if you
know, is you don't, you got to start with your macros, you
know, start with, and then start building up and building up and
building up, building up. It's you don't just jump to the
very pinnacle and say, how many milligrams of this, you know,
should I take when it's the the very last thing you need to be
focused on? Yeah.
You know, and I think a lot of people use the psychedelics in a
way to kind of try to jump past these other layers where I'm
like with if without effectively building that foundation, you're
not going to get the benefits you're looking for.
But at the same time, those, you could argue that they could be
used to kind of help set a foundation, but that's a that's
a a more difficult argument to kind of hone.
Yeah, no, I agree on all fronts for sure, man.
So the next challenge you got is the the North Pole, correct?
Is that right? The North Pole, This thing has
eluded me for five years, is I've tried to go every year
since 2020. It's been it's been cancelled
for a variety of reasons. Last year I sat in the middle of
Siberia for two months in a town called Krasnoyarsk.
I'm sorry for two weeks in a town called Krasnoyarsk before
it was cancelled again. So this this April so I'm
heading back to Russia and trying to get to the Pole.
And what, what does that journey entail exactly?
So you're, you're trekking in what, what do you expect the
time frame to be like? I'm I'm curious to get some
pointers here. So the, the way that it works is
with, as I mentioned earlier, the Explorer's Grand Slam is
there's two different ways that you can do it.
And then, you know, with, with regards to North Pole to South
Pole, and then anytime anybody goes to North Pole, South Pole,
there, there's two different ways you can do it.
You can either do what's called the last degree where you go
from the, from the 89th parallel to the pole, which is 69 statute
miles, or you can go different, you know, different degrees
down. You can go from like the 80, you
know, the 88th, the 87th, the 86th, you know, things like
that. So is I'll be going from the
89th to the 90th parallel, it'll be 69 statute miles and it'll
take about 7 to 8 days. Nice.
I'm stoked man. This in April.
Are you going to be like documenting this or is it?
I mean you probably. Yeah, it'll be, it'll be on the,
it'll be on the website. So on the easiest way to track
all this stuff is you can go to my personal website, which is
Dawson's Peak P/E A k.com. And through that you can,
that'll link to our other, to the foundation site, which is
Dawson's Peak foundation.org. That's our 5O1C3.
But on that site is there's a tracker that I'll have.
So you can watch me real time on the tracker and then we'll get
social media, you know, videos and pictures and different posts
up as quickly as we can. But obviously when you're when
you're up there, it's very difficult to communicate.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Now I'm stoked, man.
I love what you're doing. I love the message you're
preaching. I'm excited to to see this, to
have you see it through with the the polls.
So yeah, man, if there's anything I can do to help, by
all means let me know. I'll send you some breaks for
sure. Listen, I, I would love that,
but but again, is, is I appreciate your time and, and I,
I think, you know, you did an absolutely, you know, excellent
job. And again, I think I think most
of your points are better than mine.
So I appreciate you showing me up on that front.
No, man, I, I, I appreciate the the conversation.
I value what you're doing and I'm just happy to get to word
out for you. I'm excited about the book.
I'll be reading it. Now listen, thank you very much
and again, thanks for your time. Appreciate you, Dawson.
Real quick, where's the social profiles you want to point
people to? Yeah, no, thank you for that.
So the easiest thing is just Instagram is just at Dawson's
peak again, that's P/E AK and then the other links are are on
that, then all the links are also on the website.
And again, Strength and Surrender was launched on
January 7th here in 2025, and it's available now on Amazon.
You know, ebook, ebook and paperback and audio is going to
be released in about a week. Awesome man, well I'll link out,
make the E people to find you and just keep killing it
brother. Keep doing what you're doing.
Hey, thank you. I appreciate it.
See you, Dawson. See.
You, buddy.