Well, hello ladies and gents. Robert Sykes, Kyo, savage.com.
Today I've got special guest Jake Dudley on the line.
He has a formal background in schooling in dietetics, but yet
he has adopted A relatively low carb Mediterranean ketogenic
carnivoresque diet for his client base.
And I really wanted to pick his brain and bring one of the
podcast and talk about what it's been like implementing that in a
demographic of clientele that are needing to lose some weight,
especially with a background from a more traditional
dietetics, you know, community. So very interesting
conversation. I love his approach.
I love what he stands for, love what he's doing.
He's making an impact and he's changing a lot of people's
lives. I've got no doubt that you will
take something from this quick little disclaimer though.
He was recording in the mountains and his signal was not
the most optimal. So there's a couple instances
where the audio cut out. I tried to cut that together so
that wasn't anything missed, but there were a couple hiccups
there with the audio, so my apologies hopefully doesn't
really distract you too much from the conversation.
So that further lay sit back, relax and do the podcast with
Jake Dudley and we are live Jake Dudley.
How are you brother? I'm doing great, Robert.
How are you? I'm good man.
I'm good. We met at Keto Con and we just
automatically hit it off a lot in common and I really am
excited to chat with you man, because you bring an interesting
perspective to this conversation.
You are what would you describe your your role is like?
What is your career path? Because it's kind of in a in a
predominantly female dominated market and you're doing a lot of
things against the grain, but you're gaining a lot of traction
with it. No, for sure.
No. I mean to to kind of explain
what I do that is relatively unique is like you said it is a
very female dominated field, the world of nutrition and
dietetics. In fact, I think last I looked
at the statistics, it was like 7% of dieticians were male and
almost 90% of those guys work in sports nutrition as the as the
main field and so to be a male dietician working.
Primarily with weight loss. I feel like that definitely is a
bit of a niche in the spectrum of things, and I was actually
wearing it the other day when I was in my undergrad, the the
ladies in my program. I was one of two men with about
45 women and they got me a shirt that says the guy attician.
And it was like a picture of a Unicorn.
I like it. Do you think that's been a a
good thing for you or? I mean, I would imagine like
being a contrarian in life tends to work in your favor because it
just draws more attention to you.
You know, I believe there's been good and bad.
Well, not necessarily bad, but challenges to overcome in being
a male in this field. Because I feel like with weight
loss being such a sensitive subject for a lot of people, it
is kind of a tough thing to put your trust in somebody you don't
know. And I feel that you know.
I mean you, you and I can both relate to this.
Men sometimes are not the most delicate when it comes to having
those tough conversations. But I feel that, you know, being
mostly raised by women, I had a lot of that kind of the mess.
So when it came to speaking to people, and last I checked with
my ratios it's about 7030 split with females being my top
populace in my client base. Nice.
What? What made you want to get into
this field in the 1st place? Been like, was there some
childhood trauma that you have to lose a lot of weight?
Like what? What interested you in the
weight loss spectrum? Yeah, no, that's a wonderful
question. In fact, you know, the way I
like to put it is that my family is the reason I'm the way I am.
And you know, I come from a very large family, both physically
and in number. But when I was a kid, I remember
my mom always being on a diet. And, you know, this goes back to
when I was just, you know, old enough to hear her say that's
not a good food. And I think that as a kid, you
know, I had seen her try every diet under the book like I've
seen her do, like the cayenne pepper and lemon cleanse.
I've heard her do every Oprah diet that she talked about and
Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, everything.
And I'd seen her. Lose and regain the same £100
more times than I can count. And I remember as a kid sitting
up with her because she was crying because she failed yet
another diet. And as a kid, you know, being a
mama's boy, it's like I just wanted to help her.
And so I was always like, well, what the heck can you eat?
And so from a very young age I took an interest in food, in
what foods were good for people, what foods were not good for
people. And my older brother, so you and
I met at Keto Con and I remember.
We kind of laughed at one of the pictures we got together just
cuz I was a head over you and my older brother is a head over me.
And so I'm the short one in my family here because he's about 6
foot 10 and at his peak he's about 405.
And so my momma, who was my initial inspiration when she was
young, she had the three of us at a very young age and she was
a single mom. And so you can imagine that can
absolutely take a toll on her ability to really focus on
herself and her health because she's raising three boys.
And so when she was young, she was about 18, she was about 6
foot tall and about £165. And after the three boys, she
got up to somewhere in the two 6270 range and she continued to
climb. And eventually she kind of
stopped telling me where she was when she got in the three 30s,
three 40s. And I've helped her in the past
to drop, you know, over 130 pounds.
And she was feeling amazing. Wow.
But having her go through that time and time again, you know,
she's always going to have that nagging voice in her head that
says what if it comes back? And I feel like a lot of my
coaching ability comes from. Working with the toughest client
I've ever worked with which was my own mom.
Moms are tough, man. And it's weird because like I've
got a great relationship with both my parents and like my my
mom is she's never struggled with being overweight, but she
has lost a lot of muscle and she's she's gotten much better.
But she's had multiple surgeries.
So she's getting very frail and certain regards like she's had
multiple, you know, knee, ankle, hip surgeries and it's been very
tough to see her lose lean mass. So I'm trying to being pathetic
and put myself in your shoes and seeing your mother go through
these massive weight, you know, shifts gaining a bunch of
weight, losing a bunch of weight and beating herself up
internally for not, you know, being able to adhere to a diet.
And that's tough too, man. Like there's there's two ends of
the spectrum and it either way, it's like you're watching your
mother go through a very trying time and as the son, that's a
very hard position to be in, especially when you feel like
you know what it needs, what what needs to be said, what
needs to be done to help her, to coach her through.
That is is never an easy task. Yeah, no, you're absolutely
right. And I believe Dr. Ken Berry said
it when we were a Ketocondas last year, he called it powdered
butt syndrome, which I thought summed it up perfectly.
It's that. When when it's family, somebody
who has, you know, changed your diapers when you were a kid,
it's like they're going to be a bit resistant to taking your
advice. Even if you're, you know, a
brain surgeon and they have a question about being knocked out
and getting a concussion, like they're going to still take
someone else's opinion over yours, is your mom more
receptive to what you're what you're preaching now, or is she
kind of still giving you a little pushback?
I mean there there's always a little bit of pushback just
because it is one of those where she's taking it as well as her
own personal discipline and her ability to, you know, adhere to
some of the advice that I provide it.
It's sometimes it's it's really strong, sometimes she does
wonderful and then she gets really down on herself.
And I feel that through helping her through the highs and the
lows has really helped to develop my patience and my
flexibility as a coach with people.
Helping them to kind of deal with their own inner turmoil as
it as it was with weight loss. But yeah, no, I one of the
things I tell a lot of my clients is that weight loss is
95% food, 5% exercise and 100% mental.
And everybody tends to agree with that.
Have you been overweight yourself or did you just
experience a witness enough of this through your immediate
family that you never went down that road?
So I personally have never been what I would call obese.
I have been in Chubby and it started when I had graduated
college. My wife and I had just gotten
married and we moved from Idaho down to Texas.
And so we've been now in the DFW area for, gosh, I guess 8-8
years. Yeah, since 2015.
And so when we moved from Idaho to Texas, you know, that's a big
culture shock because the biggest.
City that I'd ever lived in had a population about 45,000.
Then we moved to the DFW Metroplex with 6.5 million.
Quite a shift indeed. And so culturally it was very
different. And then not only that but being
newlyweds, both trying to, you know, earn a living.
When we first moved there, you know, I had applied for a
position as a dietitian at the at the, the hospital in town,
the big Baylor and. The hiring process takes a
minute, and so I had gotten two different jobs to make ends
meet. And so I was making Donuts in
the morning at a shop just down the stairs from our apartment,
and then I was flipping burgers in the evening, even though I
had a culinary degree. These are both food.
Related things. And so I went in there,
immediately got hired and started working.
And if anybody listening would know, Donuts and burgers are not
a good way to live a healthy lifestyle, eating too much of
your own product there. Oh yeah, And with with that, you
know, I graduated College of the Division One track athlete.
I was a decathlete and so I was in pretty darn good shape.
And you know, when you're a decathlete, you're working out
and competing about 24 to 26 hours a week and eating.
Gosh, I was probably eating somewhere between 5 to 6000
calories a day and I continued to do that, that the eating part
minus the exercise for about two years after we moved to Texas.
And so I went from I believe about 220 down to about 201 and
then back to 2:20. But it was not the muscle that I
had put back on. And so I did have a little bit
of a gut and and like you said you're you're 6 what was it 6
what? About 6-2.
My wife won't let me be 6 three, so I'm 62.
But man, those those women, man, I tell my wife that I'm 5/8 and
she's like, no, you're 57. So we just settle on 7 1/2 and
call it good. They got to keep us humble.
I'm telling you man, so so yeah, I mean it's 6/2 at you're not
really obese at £220 even you carry that weight well, but like
when you're working with your family and I see your brother
got up to 405 was his heaviest. He's a foot taller though, are
you? You have multiple brothers,
multiple siblings, or just one? Yeah, so I've actually got my
older brother and my little brother who so he has cerebral
palsy. And so he was another big
inspiration for me is because if you know anything about folks
with cerebral palsy, they have a lot of GI related conditions and
digestion has always been one of his kind of weak points.
And so helping my mom to to formulate a easier to digest
protocol for him was another big inspiration for the route that I
wound up going. But yeah, so that.
So I do have. The two brothers and then I have
three half siblings and I'm the second oldest out of all of
them. Now when it comes to nutrition,
like in the home when y'all growing up, was it pretty poor
nutrition, like a bunch of fast food, TV, dinners, things like
that? Or was it, you know, roughly
standard American diet, somewhat healthy in some regards or like
what was the nutrition growing up?
I would say it was definitely a subpar Standard American diet.
So it was kind of worse than average I would say.
In a lot of different perspectives because.
And not that, you know, mom didn't do a good job.
She did a wonderful job. But when you grow up in a single
parent household, this is something that's often times
overlooked is that, you know, mom doesn't always have time to
cook. And when there's a McDonald's to
your left and a Burger King to your right, it's it's a lot
easier to grab that than, you know, to to sit down and
prepare, you know, a good meat and vegetables kind of meal.
Yeah. And.
You know, thanks to that too, there's two things I don't eat
to this day, which are peanut butter cookies and spaghetti
because we ate a lot of that. Yeah, I'm believe it, man.
I'm believe it. So do you feel like the reason
you were able to stay a little bit more fit and trimmed than
your brother was simply because you were just more active
throughout those adolescent years?
You know, I'd say a bit of the activity had a lot to do with it
and we both did sports growing up, but I feel that I was a lot
more observant. You know, it's like, I feel like
as a second sibling, like, do you have siblings, Robert?
Yeah, I've got a younger brother.
Okay. So he's probably watched you be
the one to put your hand on the stove.
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, so that was me.
I was always watching my brother do stuff and seeing what he did.
And you know, we would grow up in the era of, you know, playing
Nintendo 64 and snacking on a bag of Cheetos with a, you know,
each of us having a 2 liter of Pepsi and.
You know, eventually I just kind of saw how uncomfortable that
made me feel eating that way. And so then I started watching
him continue to do that. He kept getting bigger, bigger,
bigger. And I just stayed lean.
And there was a a joke around our house where when we would go
grocery shopping, we'd get 2 heads of lettuce.
One was for the family, one was for Jake, because I would
literally shop it in half and walk around eating a head of
lettuce because that was one of my favorite snacks.
And you know, I was actually. Quite skinny as a a young young
lad and as I grew a little bit older, I didn't actually have
like a major growth spurt at any point, but I grew like a steady
inch and a half. And so I think having that
steady growth compared to my brother who was 6 foot five in
middle school. Yeah, I think that having a
steady genetic response is a little bit more to blame for
that rather than having that big burst of size like he did.
Yeah, I'm kind of bouncing all the place, but I'm trying to
dive deeper into what causes weight gain from like a familial
standpoint that also just a lifestyle stamp.
I listen to a podcast or a Q&A panel discussion earlier this
morning actually and it had several members on there talking
about what they thought was the main contributing factor to the
obesity epidemic that we now find ourselves in.
And it was interesting because some people were, you know, very
much so taking the stance of it being genetic based.
Some people were very much so taking the stance of it being
environmental, like simply calories and calories out, move
more, eat less. And I feel like you bring
interesting perspective because you are in diet headaches.
You have come from a family that was living the standard American
diet, your your sibling siblings, your your mother were
overweight, yet you didn't really struggle with that too
much. What?
What do you think is like the main contributing factor to the
obesity epidemic we now find ourselves in?
Oh man. So I'm going to swing one out to
left field here because this is definitely a subject I talk
about a lot. And by the way, whichever
podcast you're listening to, I'd love you to share that with me
because I love hearing other people's perspectives.
Yeah, but I am of the the school of thought.
We are more in control than we give ourselves credit for.
Totally. Based on a lot of the research,
you know, they say that we are 70% of our parents or something
along those lines and that may be true.
But if you don't take 100% advantage of that other 30% like
you were, you're cheating yourself.
And so my school of thought is based off of a phrase that one
of my old mentors told me. He said that the primary
causative factors for obesity in America are not fast food and
highly processed drinks. He said the two primary
causative factors are procrastination and
sophisticated excuses. Because we can always put
something off and we can always make up a pretty damn good
reason why we're putting it off. And until we overcome that, we
cannot make a change, a lasting change at that.
Yeah, yeah, so. I believe, yeah.
I think the solution is what is so vague, man, because I feel
like there's not a lack of information out there.
Like information is abundant more so than it ever has been.
Anybody can go online and and dive into whatever nutritional
protocol they want to, you know, dig deeper into.
They can research any study of so much of this is available to
the public. There's there's no shortage of
outlets for physical activity. I don't think anybody lacks
motivation to get leaner and live a healthier life.
I mean that is like everybody wants that.
I don't know if it's just simply a matter of them lacking the
discipline that is required to adhere to that level of, you
know, environmental factor, but it it's an interesting, it's an
interesting conundrum we find ourselves in because this is
relatively new for us as a species.
Correct. Yeah, yeah, not and I would
agree 100%. And you know, I I won't sit here
and pretend like I have the the Holy Grail, but what I have
found in my practice, you know, I've helped to date a little
over 3500 people to get rid. Of their excess body fat and
maintain it. And what I have found to be the
most effective tool is education.
Because if you can educate somebody to make good informed
decisions, they will make fewer mistakes, they will make fewer
poor choices. And you know, I've helped
everybody from a 7 year old who was I believe 4 foot six and
about 180 pounds. To a 97 year old woman who had
the spirit of a 25 year old because when she would walk into
the office, she had that big costume jewelry, she was loud,
she was loving on everybody and she had the right attitude to be
successful. And I feel like that is far more
important than, oh, I lost you. Can you hear me?
And motivation is very fleeting in my opinion is that we can get
amped up and we can watch a motivational video on Instagram
and. That gets us amped.
We're ready to go. We're going to start our new
diet tomorrow, and then we scroll to the next video and
it's a cat falling into a toilet.
We just laugh and then we forget about what we were pumped up
about. Yeah, 100%, man, 100%.
You cut out for a second. What was the thing you said
before? Motivations.
Fleeting. Oh, I believe that, like with
Oprah about how you know she has all the money in the world and
yet she has lost and regained 80 pounds more times than any of us
can count. Yeah.
And, you know, she talks about how she's been like just fueled
with motivation. And that's where I I believe
that motivation is fleeting, is that we can get motivated to do
something. And I believe there was the old
phrase that, like, I can do anything I want to do for a
month. Yeah.
And, you know, you can. You can do anything you you put
your mind to for a month. You can stick to that.
So then what happens after that? You know, I believe that
creating a system, a system of practice, a system of living.
You know, much like the way that you live, where you have
structure, you have accountability and you have a
goal and that's a system. I wouldn't call that motivation.
I think that that is why, you know, folks like you, folks like
me, and a lot of my clientele are so darn successful, is that
we have developed systems that work for us.
Yeah, I think one of my favorite quotes, and there's multiple
variations of his quote, but the general premise is.
That we don't rise to the level of our aspirations, we fall to
the level of our systems. And I think that is so
incredibly true. And for me, like I just have non
negotiables in my life. Like I have things that I just
simply do not even have as an option.
Which removes a ton of decision fatigue and it just structures
my life in a much more effective manner.
And then if I adhere to that system for long enough, it just
becomes habitual to the point where.
I don't even feel like I need to deviate from.
I don't even feel like it's an extra strain on me to adhere to
it because it's just simply part of my day.
Just as brushing my teeth is part of the day, going to the
gym is part of my day. Just as brush my teeth is part
of the day. Waking up early, eating a
structured meal, like it's all just simply part of my day and
it fits very cohesively with the rest of my day, and I don't have
a whole lot of opportunity to stray from that, so I don't
stray from it. Yeah, I love that.
And I love that, Robert. And that's actually kind of
mirrors something that I talked to some of my clients that do
have a hard time developing that system, that have a hard time
linking their health obligation to the rest of their day.
And I recently actually just had this conversation with a woman
about, you know, why do you brush your teeth?
And she's like, what does that have to do with anything?
I said, why do you brush your teeth?
And she's like, well, because I have to.
I was like, and why do you go to your your job every morning?
She's like, because I have to. And I was like, and why aren't
you eating healthy? Because you have to do that too.
Yeah. And something like that just
kind of clicked for her. And the last, I think, 3 weeks
in a row, she's killed it. I think that sometimes we just
need to hear that and a little bit of tough love goes a long
way. Yeah, what are your typical?
Client demographics looking like is there like a like a common
denominator like are they all they need to lose 100 plus
pounds or some of them incredibly thin and just have a
disorder relationship with food and eating?
Like, is it like a general avatar that you're working with
or is it really across the board?
I mean a little bit of everything, but I would say my
general populace is going to be a man or woman in their mid 30s
to late 40s who has anywhere from 30 to £50 to drop.
You know some sometimes I get folks that have over 100 and
sometimes I've got folks that have 10-1.
Quick story about one of those smaller cases was I had a woman
who as soon as I answered the phone she said now you're going
to think I'm crazy but please hear me out.
She said I have £7.00 that I need to lose and I said go ahead
tell me about it. And so she was a mother of four.
And ever since her last child, she had this, this little pad of
fat that just hung over her stomach.
And she was 5 foot 7 and 132 pounds.
And that's a, that's a relatively healthy weight,
right, for somebody who's 5 foot 7 to be 132 pounds, and she
needed to get to 125. And most people would roll their
eyes at that. But I wanted to hear her story.
I wanted to hear what was going on.
And so she had said that every single dress that she once
loved, she has put in a box because they fit tight to her
stomach. And she sees that bulge hanging
down and it does nothing but destroy her confidence.
And so I worked with her for about two months to get rid of
the seven pounds, and the seven pounds was gone quick.
But what I did was I restructured the type of foods
that she was eating because she had always been of that calories
in, calories out mentality and teaching her that not all
calories are created equal was kind of an eye opener for her.
And she had also, you know, started eating more red meat,
eat more eggs, more Whole Foods, single ingredient food items.
You know that's that's definitely within the philosophy
of what I teach. And over the course of that two
months that fat pad disappeared and when she saw me, I'm getting
a little choked up. She cried as though she had just
dropped £100 because that five or that little 7 pound pad in
front of her weighed on her conscience so much and to have
that gone was a life changer for her.
It's awesome. And and that's and and it was
just a small drop for a lot of people that like I said, they
might roll their eyes, they might, you know be quick to
judge on that. But everybody's fighting a
battle in some form or another, whether it's £7.00 or whether
it's 220, you know, and I've helped a few of those
individual. It is truly all perspective
based on the individual for sure.
On that note though, for someone that has lost a lot of weight or
a little bit of weight, like if they if they're coming from a
place where they've strive to lose weight, how do you have a
conversation around not being so fearful of eating more food?
Because I feel like that is. And an incredibly important part
of the conversation, but it often times gets overlooked
because they get to like I see this in my clientele working
with competitors, they'll lose a lot of weight for a show and
then they'll gain weight back in the reverse that portion and
gaining weight like when you're in a, you know, stage level
conditioning, you know, sub 5% body fat or sub 10 for a female.
Like, that's not really healthy long term either.
But they they hold on to that look and conditioning because
that's what they feel really good about.
As they should. But regaining a healthy amount
of weight and spending some time in a caloric surplus is also
incredibly advantageous. But once you lose a lot of
weight, especially if you've lost 100 plus pounds, embracing
the idea of eating more food and not chronically restricting is
debilitating for people. So how do you, How do you?
Cope with people around that, Yeah.
Now this is a very, very important conversation with a
lot of my my folks, because they do have that fear because they
have, you know, had success with the diet in the past and then
the weight came back without necessary explanation.
It wasn't like they were, you know, eating a bunch of junk
food and stuff again. And often times I find the folks
on my program who do you know, relapse a little bit, they
regain some of that weight. It's usually meant because we
have a hard time shutting off that that satisfaction.
You know the the ghrelin in our system kind of gets out of
control sometimes when it comes to things like steak or nuts or
any type of grab and go snack. It's hard to to mitigate that.
But the way that I get around that and the way that I help my
clients to make more educated decisions is that once they
have, you know, achieve their ideal healthy window, their
ideal body fat percentage, which is what the graduation on my
program is based upon, it's not a number on the scale, It's
about body fat percent. Once they have achieved that
homeostatic window, we slowly start reintroducing foods back
into their diet and we work very closely.
I do utilize chronometer to help them to track macros and things
along those lines to make sure they're getting enough because
that's always my concern is that they're not getting enough
protein, especially because they're aware that when they
gained weight in the past it was because of excess is because of
overconsumption or it was because of consumption of highly
processed foods. And when it comes to how I do
that, it is a very slow reintroduction and I start with
things like very low impact foods.
So it will be like nuts, it'll be Berry, it'll be a little bit
of berries, you know, so they'll have some strawberries,
blackberries, occasional blueberries, things like that.
We'll, we'll try that out for one to two weeks body acclimates
and then we up it a little bit further.
We kind of increase the glycemic load on some of their foods.
I'm also very particular about the vegetables and things like
that that I encourage my clients to have because of that glycemic
index. I don't want them to think, oh,
butternut squashes of vegetables.
So I'm gonna, you know, have a whole bowl of that and then
sprinkle some ground beef on top.
You know, it's gonna be typically the opposite of that.
And so helping them to bring back higher calories with fat,
with protein and with an emphasis on the type of
vegetables that they like. You know, some people say, I
hate broccoli and I say that's fine.
I don't eat broccoli either. And we kind of kind of work it
into that way. It's like I give them the
control and they get to choose what sort of foods they're
bringing in. And that helps them to make
those decisions and feel good about it because I'm not just
dictating it all to them. And the way that I would kind of
phrase it is that, you know, they're walking on the path.
I'm just holding the flashlight. And so, yeah.
And so that's, that's how we kind of get them from A to B, is
that they go through a elimination diet style with the
program. The way I would describe the
program in general is it's a low carb Mediterranean diet.
It's not full blown keto, it's not paglio.
It's not one thing or another. It's a low carb Mediterranean
diet that is very customized to each individual.
And over the last three plus years I have added new kind of
tails to the program where my my default is that one I just
described. And then I've also got a
carnivore protocol, a paleo protocol and a ketogenic
protocol where if a client expresses firm interest in one
of those, we can modify the base program to fit that.
And thanks to the work of Sean Baker and Doctor Kilts and
Anthony Chafee and all those guys that you and I both know
and love, You know, I've been able to kind of digest a lot
more of the research surrounding carnivore and be able to
formulate what I would consider to be a safe, efficible protocol
to help people get from A to B. And it's not eat as much steak
as you want. Like, I still help people
practice moderation because I've seen that where somebody, you
know, they're looking online and they find that, oh, I can eat as
many rib eyes as I want until I'm full.
And then they wonder why they're gaining weight with Carnivore.
And I mean, have you experienced that yourself?
Because I know you follow a largely carnivore, but with a
little bit of extra here and there, right?
Yeah, yeah. I'm definitely like I don't
describe, I don't know find myself as being hardcore strict
carnivore because there are certainly people that are.
You know, take it to the extreme of nothing but beef, water and
salt and you know to those people more prior to you if it's
worth it for you. I just incorporate a little bit
more variety. Like I'll have the keto brick
which is not carnivore, I'll have like some some dairy, some
things of that nature. But I'm assuming the reason
you're going actually to answer your question first, yes, 100%.
I see people that are doing a massive surplus of just rib eyes
and they will continue to gain weight.
This notion that you can't overeat meat is a skewed.
Oversimplification like I do agree that that is if you're
going to eat intuitively and not track anything.
It is certainly more advantageous and easier to do so
with an animal based carnivore or well for medic ketogenic diet
than it would be with a standard American mixed diet.
But you can overeat anything. Oh yeah, absolutely.
Well now, and I'm glad you'd agree because yes, that is
something where, you know, I've even had some people come to me
asking about the program saying I've been doing Carnivore for
about 3 months and I've only dropped £2.00 and this is a man
and time dropping weight. If that loss specifically
because you can lose weight 150 different ways.
But if you hate what you're doing or if it's not something
that's sustainable, eventually you will give up and walk away.
And so with that, you know, I do think that moderation is a big
piece to the success of a lot of clients.
And you cut out a little bit again there, but I'm assuming
the reason you make the the Mediterranean low carb as like
the base program makes is, is because that has a much lower,
lower bearer to enter to someone that's coming from a Standard
American that is more used to a broader array of food types,
right. I'll lose you again.
There we go. You're back.
Yeah. Did you hear any of that?
No. It kind of cut off after you
asked about the the base of the program.
Yes, I'm assuming you you made the the low carb Mediterranean,
the base, the program because that still affords people a
broader array of food types and for someone coming from a
standard American mix that that's going to be a lower
barrier to entry, correct? Yes.
Now that is 100% correct because even though the the
Mediterranean style eating can be good for people, it can also
be abused. And I believe that, like you
said, it does afford them more options.
And so if I were to go to every person out there and say stop
eating vegetables, they're going to kill you, You know, they're
going to look at me like I'm crazy.
And So what I do is Ioffer them this kind of cornucopia of
options and they choose from those options what they like.
And it gives them that sense of control, which I believe is
very, very important for people to find success longterm is to
be able to make, you know, a concerted effort in the decision
making process, like they need to be a part of it.
But more so I give them a list of options.
And so one of the ways I kind of describe my program as we get
going is I will create a meal plan and I will give you a
customized shopping list and I will give you custom recipes and
I will give you all the tools you need to be successful.
And with the base program, I do offer meal replacements and
things like that. I give them shopping list,
things that they can go to the grocery store and get that would
essentially help to replace a meal as well.
But with that, you know they can take or leave any sort of meal
replacement options they want. I also talk about like meal
replacement services, things like Factor and all those guys
like they do have some decent options.
Are they for everybody? Absolutely not.
But if you are, you know, a high level CEO who has zero time to
cook and your other option is to go downstairs and get something
from Qdoba, it's like having a factory meal in your freezer is
going to be a better option. So creating a sustainable
lifestyle for each person is what makes the Arbiter program
so much more successful than a lot of the the other kind of big
box things. You do get a very personalized
touch with that. Yeah, I think there's there's
this. Training of fun out there that
it has to be like all these different types of dieting
modalities are mutually exclusive.
Like you can track macros but if you do that you have to have a
mixed diet or if it's your macros approach but you can't do
that with keto. Like why can't people just blend
a combination of things that work for them.
Like I track my macros but I'm following a strict ketogenic
diet and that works very very well.
Now some people have a hard time tracking macros because they
find it to be very cumbersome. Do you get a lot of pushback
from people when you're suggesting that they use
chronometer and track their intake?
Not really, because I don't encourage them to use
chronometer until after they have graduated the program.
Because at that point, the way I like to put it is that by the
time you have graduated from my program, you are qualified to
work for me. Yeah, because I I structure so
much of what I do around education about teaching them
what macros are, what certain vitamins, minerals are, how they
affect the body, how there's different nutrient
synchronicities that go on, you know, not getting your magnesium
and calcium at the same time. If you're supplementing with
magnesium, make sure you haven't had calcium within a couple
hours before bed, because that'll decrease the absorption
rate. It's like, those are all just
like little tidbits that I give people to help them make smarter
decisions with those things. And so by the time they're done
with the program, when I introduce something like macro
managing with chronometer, it's it's a relatively simple step
from where they just were. And so while they're on the
program, I keep it very, very simple, very, very
straightforward. I use paper food journals.
Like, I want them to write it down by hand, and I tell them
you get bonus points if there's a coffee stain on it, because I
want you to take it everywhere. Like, I want them to get into
the practice of doing that. And it's a very simple thing.
Like I don't tell them, tell me all the ingredients in your
lunch. Like, I want to know what your
lunch was, and if it's on the list of things that I've
approved for them, then we're good to go.
If it's not, I ask that they highlight it so that we can talk
about it when we have our sessions.
I like that how frequently this is probably very individualized
based off the client, but. How frequently do you feel is
optimal to be checking with them and having these sessions?
Because it seems like some people they are totally
self-sufficient. They could just, you know, take
your words of wisdom and run with it.
Other people need to have a much more frequent touch bases.
Think I lost you there, Robert. Can you hear me now?
Yeah, yeah, basically what? How frequently do you feel you
need to be in contact with these people in order to ensure that
they're sustaining and maintain the protocol?
Yeah. So my typical protocol is we
have weekly sessions. And so each week we set up a day
and a time and we just kind of rinse and repeat as far as, like
when that day and time is for each person.
But in between our sessions, we also have the support line.
And so they can text me questions.
If they're out grocery shopping and they see something
interesting, they can take a picture of it and send it to me.
And I'll, I'll take a look at it and I'll help them figure out
yes, that's something good or no.
And here's why I don't just simply say yes or no.
I'll educate them as to why something is not good.
So in the future, they understand what we're looking
for when we're reading nutrition labels or ingredient labels.
Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.
Do you orchestrate some type of community aspect to it?
Are they interacting with other clients you have at the same
time or is it all one-on-one with you directly?
Yeah. So that is kind of a work in
progress. Like I do want to create like an
online forum where graduate clients can kind of come in and
and be a Big Brother, big sister style thing to new clients.
And I've had several volunteers, which honestly is kind of
shattering or shaking like because it's like to have
somebody so inspired that they want to help somebody else at no
charge, that's that's kind of kind of crazy to me and I love
that. But I have had several
volunteers say that they want to be the Big Brother, big sister
in the in the coaching program. And so that is something that's
a work in progress. I have no ETA on when that may
be available, but outside of that, as far as community, I am
100% referral based and so I don't advertise, I don't do any
ads, things like that. And so the community does kind
of come from their referral source as well.
In fact, one family in particular I have helped, let's
see the mom, the dad, two of their boys, one of their
daughters, their brotherinlaw, sisterinlaw and then their kids
as well. And so it's like a big family
who has done the program and so there is some community aspect
to that, but as far as anything deeper, not yet.
I think. I think that's huge though, man.
Like when I look at. The the keto community, because
I'm very involved with that. Like I feel like the reason or
one of the main reasons that there's so much adherence within
that dietary protocol is that there is such a thriving
community there of people that just simply want to help like
they've experienced tremendous benefit personally and they just
want to shower others with that positivity.
And within within the dietary paradigm shift, like if you're
coming from a standard American diet, you've got a certain life
path and and you know system that's not working well for you
to be able to break free of that and remove it entirely is not
really likely gonna hold. But if you can break free of
that and replace it with new people, new environments, new
factors, new systems, and leverage the support group of
others like, your likelihood of adhering to it for the long haul
is just 10X, if not more. Oh, absolutely.
I completely agree with that. And you're right about how
supportive people are. Within the low carb space, I
mean, especially for a guy like me coming to a thing like Keto
Con, it's like my first keto con I almost, I almost felt like I
needed to be wearing a mask because to be a dietitian who
was classically trained to embrace the low carb world is
almost blasphemy. Yeah, you know, and I was
explaining to some of my my clients that if I were to try
and go practice at the hospital again, they wouldn't let me.
Because I don't believe anything that the hospital is teaching
for, you know, diabetes for example.
I mean, that's probably the, the biggest one is that I had, I
remember getting in an argument with one of my, my supervisors
about why the heck are we giving this type 2 diabetic woman
waffles and syrup for breakfast? And her response was, well, she
needs to get her carb count for the day.
And I was like, she doesn't need to get her carb count for the
day. If she's like like why does she
need that? And she said well.
So that when she takes her insulin, her blood sugar doesn't
drop too low. I was like, well, why are we
raising the insulin or why are we raising her blood sugar by
feeding her this food? And she looked me square in the
eyes and said, do you think you know more than me?
Like, that was the response I got And my young dietitian head
said, no, no, ma'am, I'm I'm just saying this doesn't make
sense. And do you do you think it makes
sense? And then she was like, this is
just what we do and she left it at that and so that.
You know, kind of set something off in me.
I believe that was actually a moment that kind of started to
push me more into the low carb space because of that
confrontation. Yeah, that is very unfortunate,
man. I would imagine like the
pushback that you've received within your colleagues fears
insurmountable. You feel like that's like is is
going for a path and dietetics. I got asked this on a few
podcasts with people that have formal schooling in dietetics
like Would it be advantageous for someone like me to even go
through a formal schooling curriculum to get a
certification in that regard, or is that just a waste of time and
energy? I mean I I believe it depends on
what you're trying to do like I mean you've got a successful
business as is and your platform is, is phenomenal.
And so for you, I I think the the answer would be no, it
wouldn't be worth it for you, but for somebody who is maybe,
you know, just getting out of high school and trying to figure
out. With their life, I would
encourage it. Like I would encourage them to
go through, but to take a lot of that with a grain of salt,
because I believe that within the first three years after I
had graduated college, I learned more in the field than I did in
seven years of school. You know, it's it's crazy just
how much handson experience can teach you.
And I believe that's that kind of applies to most fields.
But with nutrition specifically, it's like you run into a case.
That you see the first time you're gonna ask, Can you hear?
Me in helping that person. And so I do think that the
formal education route teaches a lot of the basics, and it also
gives you kind of a ground to stand on that will help you when
you make those other decisions from current research things
that aren't being taught in school.
Yeah, that makes whole sense. I feel like, I mean, education
is is like incredibly valuable. Like you can't have enough
education. Like that is something that one
should always be seeking to gain more of.
But I feel like within many of the traditional curriculums out
there and just the standard methodologies, there's so much
dogmatism that runs rampant and how people think they they're
just like, like, if you look at studies, like studies are great.
I'm all for scientific research. I'm all for, you know, being at
the tip of the spear and seeing what happens.
But people that are so steeped in studies oftentimes throw
anything anecdotal out completely, which I don't think
is is good either. You know, there has to be a
healthy blend of both. There just has to be like this
willingness to have an open receptive mind.
And if you're seeing people first hand improve their health
180 degrees as a result of adopting this dietary
intervention, that seems incredibly counter to what the
textbook says. You can't really turn a blind
eye to them. Yeah, no, 100%.
And I mean, I listen to a lot of Andrew Huberman because, I mean,
he's just absolutely brilliant for one.
But he has some of the most interesting research that, you
know, I come across. And being Andrew Huberman, for
those who don't know, I believe he's the head of research at
Stanford. And he, I mean, if anybody knows
how to read a research paper, it's going to be him.
And so when it comes to things like like anecdotes like you
were saying, it's that a lot of things should be thrown out if
it is anecdotal. I think he used the phrase
anecdata and how he hates that, that people are calling it
anecdata because it's not really relevant in a lot of senses
because, you know, I can tell you stories all day, but that
doesn't necessarily mean it's going to fit for you.
And I could talk about somebody who.
You know, started eating keto and then they dropped 45 pounds
in two months and now they're, you know, running half
marathons. It's like that is intimate
story, but that doesn't mean it's going to apply to you as
well. And so with that, it's like we
do have to take those things with a grain of salt, but it is
important to know that there are the possibilities out there
totally. And when there's enough of that
occurrence happening, I believe that that can be the grounds for
future research. Perhaps, you know, finding all
those people that do that and what separates them from the
folks that can't completely agree.
I feel like in your line of work and in your line of study,
there's probably quite a talk on these like drugs, like Ozempic
right now. What?
What is when people bring that to your attention?
What? What is your default response?
Yeah. So people always ask like, am I
worried about, you know, pharmaceutical weight loss?
And my answer is always no. Because I don't believe that the
the magic pill will come and everybody's going to lose weight
and it's going to stay off and there's going to be 0 side
effects. Because there almost always are
side effects and now we're finding there are many, many
side effects. In fact, one of my clients he
had asked me about, Ozempic just sent me an article from a study
that took place in the UKI believe earlier this year around
March, where Ozempic was leading to suicidal ideation.
In about 15% of the populace that was taking it and some
people were having suicidal thoughts as a result of taking
Ozempic. For what reason I don't don't
know. The mechanism was be, you know,
determinant of your affect, but I I don't know.
There's just so many other confounding factors when it
comes to taking a medication and finding successful weight loss.
It's like we got to determine the mechanism as well.
But ultimately, I believe the most sustainable, the most
effective thing will be to create a structured lifestyle
that you can sustain and to some degree enjoy.
Because I think I showed you my Arbiter weight management shirts
that I wear around the office on the back.
It says diet suck, yeah. I liked it, man.
I believe that because yeah. And I think a lot of folks got
got pictures with that shirt, but.
With that, you know, I believe that creating a lifestyle
doesn't have to suck. Like, if you're on a diet that
sucks. But if you create a lifestyle
that's sustainable and enjoyable, it's something that
you can keep up with longterm that doesn't have to be, you
know, this this dark cloud hovering over your head every
time you go out to eat with friends.
Yeah, that there's there's an option for everybody in in my
mind, and if you can't find it, we just haven't been looking in
the right spot. 100% agree. Man, I feel like there is.
I'm very much so against any form of, you know, shortcut,
hack or anything, anything that even closely resembles a you
know, an easy peasy way of doing anything.
Like, maybe I'm just a masochist at heart, which is probably the
case. Well, I wouldn't disagree with
you, yeah. But at the same time, like I
look at anything that's led to any degree of success I've
experienced or people that I view as successful, I've
experienced. And it's all it all boils down
to them putting in the daily work that compounds over time.
Like if you can't adhere to that, then you're then you're
literally doomed. Failure.
And that holds true with, with regards to, you know, health and
body composition, with financial goals, with relationship goals.
Like anything that you want to, you know, quote, UN quote,
succeed in with life. You have to figure out ways to
enjoy the process of chipping away at it in some form or
fashion every single waking day of your life.
And once you do that, and you're able to figure out a way to do
that in a way that doesn't seem, you know, prohibitive, you'll
likely find some success with it.
Absolutely no. And I think you said it really
well the other day on one of your episodes.
I can't recall which one it was, but I was listening and you said
that delayed gratification. Has been the most eye opening
experience in the in the most recent time.
Because that process that you were just describing, that
chipping away at it day after day after day, busting your ass
some days wondering is it worth it?
And then continuing to push through and understand.
Nope, I lost you. Can you hear me?
To make positive steps in the right direction, not because we,
you know, are told to do so, but because we choose to do so.
And I think having that power of choice is the key.
Yeah. And that's so much more
empowering to, like if you feel like you are living a life that
is moving you closer to the goals that you want to excel at
and it's in your grasp to do so, like that is so much more
gratifying and fulfilling and empowering than to feel like
you're beholden to some, you know, dietary regiment.
That just seems overbearing. Or some drug or pill that you
have to take on a regular basis in order to succeed.
Like people that feel they have their own future in their own
hands. Like that, to me just seems much
more fulfilling in life. Absolutely, absolutely.
And you make better decisions because if the only one that
blames you. You're not going to be getting
after it as much. You're not going to be cheating.
And because I've had people who've gained weight taking
weight loss pills, who like, I've had people who did Fen Fen
back in the day who come to me and they told me they were, you
know, taking Fen Fen. They lost £10 and they put 30 on
when they stopped taking the Fen Fen.
And it's like things like that. It's like that's not control,
like that's using a crutch to allow you to get from point A to
point B. But then what do you learn?
Once you've stopped taking that pill, or once you stop getting
the injection, like you haven't really learned anything.
And like you said, being a lifetime learner is such an
important thing for all of us as humans, and it should never be
like a well, I'm done with college.
I think I've learned everything I need to.
Let me go make $1,000,000 now. It's like we're gonna be
continuing to learn for our entire career and into the rest
of our life. Completely agree, man.
Completely agree. Why I am definitely on the same
page with you. We're speaking the same
language. I'm super excited about what
you're doing and the client detographic that you're working
with and I love the fact that you are kind of contraying in
you know your colleague pool as to what you are doing and why.
Like I think you've got you're even for the right reasons and
that's that just is is obvious and that I put a lot of emphasis
on that man. Like I appreciate people that
are in this space for the right reasons.
I mean you we're compelled to jump into this because of what
you were witnessing first hand with your family and and you're
just wanting to pay it forward. So I tip my hat there for that
man. I'm incredibly grateful that
people like you were in the space, and I just encourage you
to keep doing what you're doing and preaching the message that
you are. I believe a lot of us, well I
would say 99% of us have our heart in it for the right reason
and. I'm.
I mean I'm I'm a big softie. Like I can be tough with my
clients when they need it. But I also cry with my clients
like on a daily basis because I feel their success when they're
successful and I feel their pain when they're not.
And I want them to know that like when they're going through
this program, it's not about you know, being perfect.
I always say I don't demand perfection but I do encourage
it. And and with that it's like I I
want people to have a friend have a like a compadre as they
go through their program. That's going to push them.
That's going to motivate them. That's going to keep them
accountable. And you know, more than
anything, I always try to educate them on the most
relevant and current research. And you know, with that I always
say like, so I'll bring things up about like weightlifting and
protein and how important it is to do weight bearing exercise
even for my little old ladies. And they'll say, is that true?
And I'll say, well, you don't pay me to lie to you.
You know, I'm here to help educate.
For the right reasons and I I believe you are as well and it
it's so good to you know connect with people in this field who
are doing the same thing. And I believe we do need more
dietitians to go this route. And it's it's a tough sell
because when you go to school for 6-7 years and then someone
comes along and tells you that everything you just learned was
assed backwards. Not everybody was is receptive
to that. Yeah.
But then you look at folks like Michelle Hearn or Ali Miller,
like other dietitians who are in this space.
It's like they're doing a wonderful job.
And the two of them actually really helped me to become more
comfortable with being where I'm at in the in the low carb space
as a dietitian. And so, you know, the Trail
Blazers ahead of me are definitely the ones to think,
hey man, well, you're blazing your own trail in your own way,
which is is very impactful. Man, you're you're touching
people's lives in ways you don't even realize.
So don't ever stop doing what you're doing because it is
making a difference for sure. Yeah, well, and I love it.
I love every single part of what I get to do.
And I do believe this is something I want to do for the
rest of my life. And so I sometimes don't think
of it so much as work, but talking to my friends with a lot
of the folks that I get to talk to and.
You know, getting to meet some of them in person because I do
have clients all over the country, most of them here in
Texas, but I have clients in New York, Florida, California,
Oregon. And it's like on the off
occasion that I get to meet any of my out of town clients, it's
like a long lost friend that never left.
And so it's it's a wonderful experience to get to do what I
do on a daily basis. I love it man.
Well, don't ever stop doing it, cuz like said, you're making an
impact and I don't know man, just keep it up.
Hopefully I'll continue to see you at these conferences.
What's the next one you're going to?
Yeah. So I may be going to Fency,
which is a nutrition conference. It's kind of the biggest one for
dietitians to get their accreditations and stuff so that
we can keep our credentials and all that.
So I may be going to that this year, but I'm definitely gonna
be making a return to Keto Con this next year.
Very much looking forward to that one.
I mean it's it's always a blast. And I think getting to meet some
of some of my heroes in in the space, it's like always a fun
experience to go rub shoulders with them.
Like, you know, I think I took a picture with Sean Baker and he
kind of, like leaned down and I was like, dude, I want you to
stand up. And he kind of looked at me.
I was like, I want people to see how tall you are.
He is tall man. He is.
He's way up there. Towers above me for sure.
He's a big fellow for sure, but no, so I'll probably be going to
fency Keto Con and then I was looking at, I think it's is it
low carb Denver, is that another one that, yeah, I was looking at
potentially going to that one next year as well.
Awesome man. Well, I will certainly be seeing
you at those. I'm looking forward to it.
If there's ever anything I can do to help you in any regards,
man, by all means don't hesitate to reach out and let me know.
Absolutely, man. That's been a pleasure in that.
Maybe next time we chat, talk about some prepping, because I
know that was something that you've been talking about with
your home studying and I see what you're doing on your Live
Savage on Instagram and I love it.
I just finished the chicken coop myself.
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the shoot, man.
We'll just get a podcast in the books.
We'll talk all about home studying, man.
I love that component as well. Heck yeah.
I love it, Robert. Until then, brother, where
people go to find out more about you and dive deeper into your
world. Yeah, so.
As far as where to find me, one of the best things I could
recommend is go to the arbiter website.
It is www.arbiterweightmanagement.com.
You can e-mail me it's jake@arbiterwm.com or you can
find me on Instagram. There is the arbiter, weight
management, Instagram or my personal one which is Texas
under score guy. Attitian.
It's GUY. It I always misspell that
dietician. Dietician with a guy at the
front? Awesome.
I'll link out to all those, Make it easy for people to spell and
put in there without messing up, and I'll link out to it, man.
I appreciate the time. I appreciate what you're doing
and keep killing it, man. Fantastic.
Thank you so much, Robert. See you, brother.
Take care.