Well, hello, listen Jens Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com.
Today we got special guest Autumn Mcleese on the line.
She has struggled with different forms of autoimmune issues.
We talked about how she's been able to resolve that.
She is currently struggling with a liver function concern that as
a result of supposed hepatitis C that she doesn't know where she
got from. So we dive into different
modalities she's been using to test out and see if she can
improve that. She has gone down the rabbit
hole of all different types of quote UN quote, biohacking
modalities and different forms of functional medicine,
different forms of holistic health practices, basically
testing out and putting everything up to the test,
running the gamut, see what works, see what doesn't and been
able to share that experience with us all today.
So thoroughly enjoy the conversation.
I am very curious and keen to see what she does with this on
her journey going forward. Got no doubt that you will take
something from it so that further delay.
Sit back, relax, enjoy the podcast with Autumn Mcleese and
We Are Live Autumn, how are you? Oh, I'm doing so great, Robert.
It's so great to be here with you.
I am excited to be chatting with you.
You have a interesting story. I'm always for bringing people
on that have a story in which the mainstream society,
conventional wisdom tells them that something can't be done and
you just kind of, you know, fly in the face of that and prove
them wrong. So I'm excited to to peel the
curtain back on that and kind of hear how that all unfolds.
Absolutely, that's that's definitely my story and I hope
to allow it to be an inspiration to many.
Well, I'm, I'm excited about it for sure.
Can you give me a little detail as to, I know, I know you had
the, the autoimmune issues. We'll, we'll dive into that.
But when you were before that was ever a diagnosis, did you,
were you well versed in nutrition or lifestyle or did
that all kind of come as a default to that diagnosis?
So it's kind of funny to segue into it because my moment of
like awakening, if you will, started with an infomercial.
And I don't know how many people can actually say that that's the
case. But I was standing in my bedroom
one day, didn't have any kids, and I was just doing laundry.
I had the TV on just for the noise.
And here comes this, it's infomercial, and it's this whole
talk about this book that shares natural cures that they don't
want you to know about. And so I found that so
interesting. It caught my ear and I was
listening so much so that they actually convinced me to buy the
book. So I bought it, I got it in my
hands. I started looking through it,
started reading it, and I was really drawn in by what I was
hearing and what I was learning and reading.
And it was basically this narrative that there are things
in our food that are essentially contributing to our demise.
It's contributing to our illness, disease, things that
should not be there. Not all the regulatory agencies
have it all together where they're actually looking out for
our health. And so it was that moment, it
kind of angered me and I realized I feel like I'm a sheep
to the slaughterhouse. Like if I don't wake up, I'm
going to wind up with something. So that was kind of my moment of
awakening. I, what I learned in the book
was some things like, you know, MSG, monosodium glutamate, it's
actually a neurotoxin and it over excites the cells to the
point of death and it has all these other side effects and
they just so happens to be hidden under at the time it was
like 30 plus names. So I, I've started researching
this and then I went into my kitchen and I remember looking
to see in my packaged foods if it had any of these ingredients
that I was learning about in this book.
And sure enough, like one of my couple of my packaged
ingredients had it in there like two to five times and I was
like, holy cow, I'm done. Like I'm not doing this.
So it basically just sparked and ignited a passion and awareness
within me that I'm, I'm not going to be duped into buying
foods because they look good or because, you know, they taste
good or because they tell me it's healthy, but it's really
not. So I packed up.
I actually went down to a Trader Joe's that must have been
mentioned in the book. And I went shopping there for
the first time. And I remember going to the meat
section and seeing no nitrates on the packaged meat.
And I'm like, what's nitrates? Like why are nitrates in our
meat, you know, and then just noticing their milk and just
some of their other standards that they have for their brand
name products. And so All in all, it was just
this time, this season of awakening.
And I'm so grateful for it because so many people still
walk around just trusting labels.
And so it was a really, it was a really big shift and a very
appropriate timing considering that just a matter of years
later, I was diagnosed with a incurable autoimmune disease.
It I definitely dive into that, but before we do it, it's, it is
kind of crazy like when you are living this totally ignorant
lifestyle that I mean, there's some truth to the whole
ignorance is bliss mentality. Like people never look at a
nutrition statement. They never even think twice
about that. They just consume their foods.
They put on whatever their, you know, daily, you know, cleaning
products are. I mean, it's, it's it's just
amazing what we put onto our skin and into our bodies,
totally belligerent to the idea of what the quality is or is
not. And once you start going down
that rabbit hole, it's like you can't unknown what you've then
learned and you just have to, you know, kind of like your
whole concept of no better do better.
I mean, that's that's very much so the case.
And I feel like a lot of people, especially if they don't have a
glaring, you know, sickness or ailment or obesity or something
like that, they they're just not really Privy to the fact that,
hey, something is not optimal. Something's not correct because
it's not just, you know, yelling at them in the mirror every
single day. But when you do start peeling
the curtain back and you actually start removing some of
these toxins from the environmental factors in your
life, it's like, wow, there's a whole another whole another
dimension out here that I didn't even know existed.
Yeah, and I mean, people are only as healthy as their kitchen
cupboard, you know, And so I had to really get real with myself.
And later, obviously, which we'll get into, I came to
realize the weight of that importance and how by just
simply changing, I mean, we're in such a great day and age
where we have options. It's not like you have to go out
and make your own mayonnaise. Like there are good clean
options out there for mayonnaise.
So it's just a matter of me learning to eventually come to a
place where I switched things out.
I, you know, I, I came into the know.
And then once you get set up like you're good to go, like,
you know, the things to do, you've got your routine.
It's it doesn't have to be overwhelming.
Yeah, it certainly doesn't. I feel like a lot of people find
it overwhelming initially. And then if you know they're,
they know somebody that is, you know, nitpicking every little
detail of the ingredient list or in the cleaning products,
whatever the case may be, it's easy to look at the individual
and be like, oh, they're just, you know, cutting their lives
short. They're stressing about
everything. It's not worth it.
Like everybody knows somebody that smokes a pack of cigarettes
a day, eats the worst food and lives there. 95 But like once
you get to a point where you know all the stuff, it's not
really that much more of an effort to avoid it and you
actually learn to enjoy the process of finding the right
things. Like I actually enjoy looking at
the nutrition statements and ingredient lists on foods, the
groceries. Like I enjoy the journey of
figuring out what is best and what is, you know, what is to be
avoided and what is to be included.
Yeah, I agree. And it's it's a little bit of a
learning curve, but I actually Ioffer a little free clean swap
guide, which I can give you to for the listeners to actually
kind of help kick start their journey with things like laundry
detergent. And if it's a woman, you know,
make up and there's even like a a candle on there that that
fights mold in your home. So I'll, I'll pass that along to
you. Yeah, no, for sure.
So let's talk about about your diagnosis.
Like, how did that come into the picture?
Was that shocking to you? Like just kind of give me the
play by play on that one. Yeah, so obviously the
infomercial was my time of awakening.
But it sometimes takes like this life, you know, tragic type
event to take place that really shakes you into OK, like what am
I going to do? What path am I going to to
choose? And some people out there can
maybe relate. I mean, maybe you've been to
your doctor, maybe you get some quote diagnosis and they say,
well, we don't know how you got this and there's nothing we can
do or here's the medication, have a nice life.
And I know I've talked to people.
I know that that is a common occurrence and it's something
that's frustrating. I know for me when I was told
that about something called lichen sclerosis, which is an
autoimmune disease, and it was very frustrating to know that he
didn't have any reason he could give me as to how I got this and
literally nothing to do about it.
And in my case, the medication was actually going to make my
circumstances worse. So my my situation essentially
involves it was a, a vaginal condition where a lichen
sclerosis can actually attack any part of the body, the skin.
It's very common in females but even like I guess 8 year old
girls are getting it more and more these days and so the skin
essentially can turn whitish and even start to scar over.
It can lose its elasticity. So wherever you can can get it,
it's going to be a problem. Well, for me, I had had one
child at this point and it was actually AC section and I wanted
to go on to have a regular natural vaginal birth with my
daughter. And that literally was not going
to be possible as you can imagine.
And so in that moment of the doctors telling me that, I
walked out of there feeling so defeated.
And you know, some people might describe like illness, often
times I feel like with cancer and things we can label
ourselves like a victim. The victim mentality of, oh,
this thing like got me, it came after me, it it caught up with
me. But in my opinion, the victim
mentality will defeat you when you believe there's nothing you
did to contribute to your problems or your illness.
And there's nothing you can do to help yourself to get out of
that outside of take a drug or show up to a doctor's
appointment. Then you literally have become a
victim. But I am here to share.
There is so much that someone can do and they're just not
aware. And so my story is one of, yes,
learning the things I needed to maybe change up at home,
especially with what you're eating, because that's a big
one. But also, this was the turning
point where I switched from conventional medicine into
holistic medicine. And so basically when I left
that doctor's office, I started looking.
I knew enough to go and consider holistic options.
Who was out there. I started calling offices and I
found a holistic like functional medicine office not too far.
I actually got to talk with the doctor.
I told her my circumstances and I said, do you think you can
help me? And she said yes, yes, I think
I, I think I can. So I set up an appointment.
She ran some blood work. Mind you, for those that are not
fully aware of the differences in conventional versus like
holistic, even the blood work is, is so different.
Like the range for normal is much more narrow.
And in conventional you have to be so far off into left fields
for them to label you as abnormal that yeah, you're so
far gone. So Long story short, she looked
at my labs. She she found autoimmunity
happening. We took some things out of my
diet, rearranged some things, added in a couple supplements
based on my blood work. And Robert, in four months, I
watched my condition completely reverse.
And literally she was like, OK, you have the green light, go
ahead, get ready to conceive. I went on to have a baby and a
beautiful vaginal birth that I literally didn't even think was
gonna be possible. But that's the power of the
body. It's made to heal.
No, I I freaking love that. It kind of hits home for us too,
'cause like we have we had our first child with was AC section.
My my wife is like all about as natural as possible.
She was gonna do the home birth thing.
Like the whole my yards. And then we that was what my
second was actually was I had a home birth.
And then that actually catapulted me into birth work
where I've now been a doula for, let's see, 11 1/2 years.
Yeah, you and my wife need to talk for sure because she she's
super passionate about that. Like she's listening to every
there's like a podcast on V bags and she's like listen to every
single episode. I mean, she she's gone all in on
this. Yes, but just simply one thing
to do a traditional vaginal natural birth post C-section,
like AV bag like that is something that is highly, highly
controversial in the conventional medicine space.
Like it's crazy how people get so up in arms about this stuff.
Oh, and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be at all.
I went to so after having my C-section, I actually went to AV
back seminar because I was so I felt robbed of my birth
experience. So my experience in particular
was that of not necessarily needing AC section and I'm out
here in Southern California. They, I just like to say are
like C-section happy. It's all about convenience.
It's all about, you know, protecting.
Unfortunately, you know their butts when it comes to thing.
It's just quote, easier to do AC section.
But when you really look into the risks of AC section, I would
not want to just sign up for that.
I would want that to be there if I needed it.
In my case, I didn't actually really need it.
I kind of got talked into it. My water had been broken, yada
yada. And so just got talked to.
I didn't know any better. OK, so that's another thing know
better, do better. Like I didn't know I had 24
hours on the clock and I could have even pushed it past that,
but I just went for it and had AC section.
So I did not. And it probably only C-section
women can really relate to this because and I know because I'm a
birth dual and I've helped so many women have what they call V
backs. So vaginal birth after cesarean,
you feel robbed. You feel kind of like you've
missed out. Your wife can probably relate,
like you just want to be a part of that first breath and I
wasn't. Now I tell all my clients, make
sure that they hold that baby up like fresh out of you.
Like I didn't get to see that. They just showed me a cleaned up
baby. Could have been it could have
been anybody's baby. Of course I knew it was mine.
But it's just the mental thing of like, you've carried this
baby for nine months and like you miss out.
Everybody else is a part of the moment, but you're on the other
side of this curtain that you can't even see anything.
So, you know, I knew I, I didn't want to like be too risky, but I
was open to learning what, what, what AV back would look like.
And we actually weren't even like intentionally going to have
a home birth. I met with a, a local midwife to
just discuss, OK, I knew that she would have the wisdom to
share with me what would be my best points, my best advice to
go and have a vaginal birth in the hospital.
And we got talking with her and basically like 2 hours later
we're like, well, holy cow. I think we're just going to
start off at home and just see how things go.
We feel more comfortable and more confident with you.
We have learned more about birth and the labouring women than we
ever had. So we decided, yeah, let's do
that. Let's start off at home.
So then I started preparing myself.
But prior to that I had gone to AV back seminar.
I had learned my doctor quoted me entirely wrong.
He said there's a 6% chance of uterine rupture, and I later
found out. Gosh, I think it's like a point.
It's either .5 or .05. Yeah, I think it's. .0 something
it's like it's so. Yeah, it's like .05 I think.
It's wrong. It's like, what?
Why is this? Why is this so misguided?
Oh yeah, and then it it literally goes to effect baby's
microbiome when baby doesn't get to come down into the birth
canal. So like Europe, for example.
This was a couple years ago. I haven't looked into it
recently, but last I heard they were bathing baby in mom's
amniotic fluid, you know, trying to help baby seed their gut and
their microbiome because they were finding the baby's gut was
sterile. And it was, well, baby's gut is
sterile, but it was actually a lot of bad, hostile organisms
were present as opposed to, you know, the good guys, the good
flora that we need. That's ultimately gonna help
grow baby's gut garden, if you will, as an analogy.
So all that to say, yeah, we went on to have an incredible
birth experience. And then that sent me into the
birthing world for sure. Yeah, 100% need to get you and
my wife in contact because she's wanting to potentially pursue
that as a path as well, because she's incredibly passionate
about it. She's literally dove super deep
into it, the whole C-section mishap.
I mean, lots of, lots of emotions there for sure.
So yeah, y'all would totally, totally kick it off.
But yeah, we we digressed a little bit there.
So all of that came post you recognizing that you're going to
go the more natural route, heal the autoimmune issues and that
was completely resolved in the setting of having been
previously told four months prior that it was pretty much a
lost cause. Yeah.
So that was that was very, that was a very empowering experience
though to to see. So what we ended up doing, what
she recommended, is it her typical way?
And I have found this to be true.
I've seen a lot of holistic doctors now because I did end up
having another unfortunate diagnosis, which just truly came
out of left field. It's so bizarre, but we'll get
into that. Point being, I've seen a lot of
holistic doctors done a lot of holistic modalities, talked to a
lot of people. And now I have my own podcast as
well called Know Better, Do Better, which you had mentioned.
And so just in learning. You know, about how much diet
impacts our health. The things that she recommended
that I do is she had me remove dairy and she had me 'cause she
saw I had a lot of yeast taking place.
And so dairy can be a bit of a fueler for yeast if you were
like myself. And then gluten and pretty much
did, we did a little bit of a Candida diet and then moved
into, you know, no dairy, no gluten supplements.
And then obviously leafy greens and, and different things and
whatnot, but more or less just basics was gluten and, and dairy
removed. And with, with just that bit of
help and me changing and really reading labels and getting more
back to raw foods and things, my body healed.
And so that's the, that's the beautiful hope that's out there
for those that are listening to play a part in their healing
journey. They have more part in it than
what they realize. And so and also, you know, just
filling in those nutritional gaps is a big one as well.
Have you read Kate Shanahan's book Deep Nutrition by chance?
I have not. So that was pretty impactful,
especially as we were going through like the whole pregnancy
process. But that really kind of opened
my eyes as to how big an impact nutrition can have, not just on
your own well-being, obviously, but that of the the child and
utero and and beyond from like an epigenetic standpoint, 3
generations, 3-4 generations deep.
And that hardly ever gets talked about.
Like people aren't focusing on this.
And like when it comes to gluten, like we're pretty much
all gluten intolerant. It's just a matter of how much
it gets manifested through symptoms.
But we're all intolerant of gluten.
Like that should not be in our diet as a species.
But like people that are not diving into this, they don't
really know. They don't know where to turn
and they go to their traditional doctor and nutrition is like not
even on the radar when you go into a traditional family
setting, family doctor practice. Like that's not really
everything that are talked about maybe very broadly, but I've
been to a handful of doctors and they never mentioned nutrition
early on in the conversation. That's always something that I
have to bring up later on. It's just like kind of an
afterthought, which is unfortunate.
Yeah, it is, It is unfortunate. It's I've noticed that it really
just depends upon the doctor and how much they have done to
further their research. So for example, we have a good
friend, it's actually my best friend's husband.
And my best friend was very much involved in, she was a GAPS
practitioner and she was, you know, certified in nutrition and
she was practicing with incredible, you know,
integrative medicine and holistic practitioners.
And but her husband wanted to go into medicine.
He wasn't sure which part of medicine, but he obviously
started just the conventional route, went through typical
medical school and but he had all these all the natural
holistic knowledge, the importance of nutrition that he
was carrying with him through medical school.
So it's very interesting to hear when he finished and you you
talk to him now, you know, there was like I want to say he said
maybe like 30 minutes of nutrition, you know, and it just
not much at all. It's just a place of learning
diseases and the medications to treat them.
And that's basically it. And as I've come to learn and
talk to people, you know, it's some people call it like just
this medical monopoly. It's just almost like a funnel
system. You know, you, you get an
illness and you get the right medication for the illness.
And, and then, well, by golly, if you get side effects from
that medication, well, we don't worry.
We've got another medication for that side effect.
And it's just a downward spiral that I feel like people can get
caught in. And I'm so glad.
I don't know how I, I just came to the place where I had my
awakening, but I'm so thankful for it because I would be in
such, I truly believe I would be in such a different place.
I surely would not have been able to have a vaginal birth.
Like there was no way. Just take my word for it.
And, and then, you know, just beyond that, in all of our, like
I've treated my family, we've learned how to naturally manage,
you know, illness and disease in our house for the most part
with, you know, flus and colds and things naturally.
So I'm just, I'm just so grateful that we've been able to
work with the body's immune system in ways that builds up
the health and allows the body to function as God intended it
to function with its cleansing processes.
And, you know, and live in this site.
And not to say that we haven't ever used pharmaceuticals.
I got about a pneumonia and randomly and, you know, had to
go that route, but it's truly there as like for for at least
for me and for us, for our family as just emergency care.
What many would say it should just be there for We should not
be popping pills like candy, and doctors should not be
prescribing it that way either. Yeah, I know 100% completely
agree. I think most people listen to
this podcast would as well when it comes to all these different
levers that one can pull in order to improve their health.
I mean, you've got nutrition, you've got environmental
factors, you've got sleep, supplementation, medication,
genetics to some extent, but obviously you can't really pull
levers there. Where would you place most
emphasis? Like if someone is listening to
this and going through the line of different things that they
can manipulate, where should they place the majority of their
efforts? Time and attention.
Obviously the more the more you know, the the better you can be
and you can just keep running over time, but where would
somebody be best off starting and focusing their efforts?
So it's kind of interesting timing because I'm on a journey
that is just forever awakening me to more and more things.
So I'm going to say I feel like it's a, it's a tie right now for
first place for me. And I'm still, well, food is
huge. OK, I've just got to say, OK,
food does, does rain as #1 for sure.
Like you have to, you can't be eating McDonald's.
Like to get better. Like you just, you have to, you
have to change. But I would say a close second
place is this whole concept. And maybe you've had some guests
on your podcast that talk about the importance of the nervous
system and the and nervous system regulation or someone
that is like literally in a sympathetic fight or flight
state constantly. And it's so interesting because
I'm actually going through some nervous system coaching right
now and it's like this brain rewiring nervous system
regulation. And I, as I looked into it and I
learned about it, I found out that there is this whole other
world of people overcoming. Not to say now they do
incorporate clean eating and some supplements in it because
that is foundational. You do need to fill in those
gaps and any clean but right behind that or right with it
comes. How do you view the world?
How do you live out your life with people?
Are you triggered often? Do you live in a heightened
state of stress and anxiety? Because if you do, your nervous
system is not ever able to calm down into rest and digest and
therefore won't even have a window of opportunity to be able
to regulate and up and overcome the circumstances.
So it's it's I've come to realize it is so very important
that we do address some of these things.
And some people might need them more than others.
But yeah, I would say that there might be some some illness in
some situations that are deeper rooted that have maybe more of a
nervous system component to it. And then others that, you know,
maybe by just some dietary changes and learning to know
better and do better. You know your your body can get
enough of an upper hand at that point to come in and and gain
back control and conquer. I have had a few guests on the
podcast dive into the, the emotional state, the
psychological state, the, the nervous system kind of a depth.
And it, it is very interesting. Like that is something that we
probably wouldn't even really be talking about if this were
recorded. You know, 200 years ago that
wouldn't even be on the radar. But now it's like we live in an
environment in which case there's just so many other
things that are dysregulating or natural circadian rhythms are
natural, you know, sympathetic, a parasympathetic states that
you have to almost actively try to, you know, cycle that in the
correct format or else your body will just simply be in a state
of disarray. And I feel like that has
heightened as of late for sure, especially with, you know,
social media and, and sleep dysregulation stressors.
People have micro traumas, emotional states, all, all of
this stuff is getting compounded over time and our, our, we're
spending much more time in a fight and flight versus rest and
digest state as a species, I think.
So I think giving that more time and attention to try and return
to some degree of our innate being makes a ton of sense.
Yeah, I agree. And especially hearing some of
the testimonies that are out there, it's it's pretty
powerful. So I it's been told to me like
this. I will, I will say it like this.
If you have switched your diet, if you are taking the
supplements, if you feel like you're doing all the things and
you're still not getting better, look to the nervous system.
I think it's a fair statement for sure.
I feel like a lot of people too are so out of tune with their
body and the brain. They don't even know what is
feasible. I don't know what's possible.
I don't know what better is because they don't necessarily
feel unwell because they don't know what optimal even halfway
feels like. And I think so many people are
just simply so out of tune with their natural state that they
don't even know that there is an issue at hand.
I 100% agree. I had a conversation with
Barbara O'Neill. I don't know if you know who
that is, but she was talking about the same thing of, you
know, even when it comes to like, food sensitivities and
things, if we were just to listen to our bodies more with
like, well, how did I feel after that meal?
You know, like back in the olden days, they would say, did that
meal sit well with you? You know, And it's like, that
was just more of a thing. And now we're literally eating
on the go, rushing out the door. I mean, I don't know how our
body can, like, properly digest when we're in a heightened
stress state and we're literally running and walking.
We're not even sitting down to have a meal anymore because of
the fastness, the fast pace of life these days.
Yeah. And like for me in my space, you
know, I'm always talking about, you know, macronutrient
distribution of certain types of foods.
But like all of that is for not if your body is not assimilating
the food that you're giving it, like you can have the most
dialed in macros, the perfect meal frequency, the right Perry
workout nutrition, like you could have all that stuff dialed
in Florida State. But if you are not consuming
that food in a, you know, in a state that allows for proper
absorption and then then you're just shooting yourself in the
foot. Right.
And like I haven't even delved into like the whole chewing bit,
right? Like isn't there this whole
science behind making sure you chew your food properly?
And obviously that comes with just slowing down and consuming
your meal in a certain like state of mind and and a restful
state with your body instead of, you know, on the go.
Yeah totally agree. One thing that I've done I'll be
curious to get your thoughts on, but I'm, I'm pretty much just
eat 2 meals a day. Sometimes I just do it one meal
a day if I'm in a low caloric intake and I'm vying down for a
competition. But when I have that one or two
meal a day, it's very much so a planned regimented thing.
Like I know what I'm going to consume before I consume it.
I, I make it an experience with my family.
Like I, I try not to be just mindlessly eating and it allows
like there's, there's so much like your body operates in
recognizable patterns, like you build these, these neurofeedback
links throughout your day-to-day routine and your body can
appreciate that your body can regulate around that.
It just sets itself up for success based off a given set of
routines. And as such, like my hunger, my
satiety, all of that is kind of In Sync with this routine that
I've built into place. But for people that are never
eating at the same time, never drinking at the same time, are
eating so many different foods that they don't even know what
they're responding well to or poorly to.
Like there is no opportunity for the body to up regulate these
these pattern recognition states.
And therefore they they just never really can possibly
optimize for anything. And their body's not going to be
able to metabolize the food that it is consuming in an efficient
manner in arrested states. They're just constantly going to
be fighting with, you know, indigestion, GI distress, poor
energy levels. Like it's just so far removed
from what is optimal as a species.
I couldn't agree more. Yep.
But but yeah, so as far as nutrition goes, know what you
know now? Like how do you structure your
own personal diet? Well, for me, so my
circumstances are different now. I don't know if we want to roll
into that, but basically I've been on kind of a, I've kind of
been on a journey of, of figuring out what, what is best
due to a liver circumstance now and trying to figure out what
is, what is best for my liver. So I would say I I'm still
walking that I'm still walking that journey in in in figuring
that out amongst a couple of the things.
This is autoimmune related as well.
No. So three years ago this month, I
mysteriously, and I say mysteriously, I'll explain why,
but I was diagnosed with hepatitis C and this has been
like quite the journey, Robert, because as you can imagine, I
had all this awareness and yet something like this, which
apparently it said estimated 50 million people have it.
They don't, they don't know it necessarily.
Not all of them, but this is a liver condition that is said to
be viral related. So essentially how most people
contract it, they say it's blood borne is through like drugs,
needle sharing. I've never done a drug in my
life through tattoos, through blood infusions or yeah, blood
infusions or blood transfusions. There we go.
And potentially if like you're promiscuous that my husband and
I, we've actually only been with each other and he doesn't have
it. So this came out of left field.
I had three gastroenterologists tell me that they that I must
have gotten it from a nail salon, but this just really
hasn't made a whole lot of sense to me.
So I've been on a bit of a journey with my liver that has
been inflamed and I have this quote viral load.
And I have to ask you something. Have you ever looked at or
talked with someone when it comes to viral theory?
I know about it brief like, I know about it vaguely, but I
don't know how to speak intelligently on it.
So unlike me. OK, Well, I will just speak to
what I know for my particular virus is it's it's interesting.
I have, I had four doctors come to me and say you don't have
hepatitis C, There is no such thing.
There is no isolation for this virus.
And so it's really set me in this place of like I, I, I
already didn't know what to make of it because I literally have
no way I could have gotten this. So when I had these doctors come
and say what they said, I'm like, well, let me hear you out.
Like, what are, what are you talking about?
And it is very interesting. We don't need to go down this
rabbit hole too much. But I will just say that the way
that they claim that I have a virus floating around in my
bloodstream that is affecting my liver is kind of bogus.
It really is when you get into the science of like how they do
the test. And so it's essentially like
getting part of my blood and starving it and dehydrating it
and then putting in some like monkey kidney cells or something
and then dousing it with a bit of antibiotic that happens to be
particularly destructive to kidney cells.
And then if my blood presents or expresses itself in a certain
way that I magically am deemed I have hepatitis C.
And so it's very interesting. It's something I really want to
dig into. So we'll leave the listeners
hanging on that. More to come.
I did an interview with a doctor actually that she was just on
and she's, she wanted to actually do a whole episode on
it. And so we went through it.
And it's interesting because the the definition of isolation is
actually not what you think it is.
It's not separating out one thing from the rest.
And so it, yeah, it just leaves a lot of question Marks and a
lot of these actually these four doctors that came to question,
they started the questioning during, you know, the last year
pandemic of COVID. And so they, they started
researching and then found themselves in this place of, of,
of questioning so much of it. So with all that said, jury's
still out, but I am there's anyone listening that has this.
I am determined to be a trailblazer in this space.
It's like said it can't be done. They want me to take an $80,000
medication that has a black box warning that is very dangerous
to take and so in trying to navigate.
You know, the state of my liver and everything that's kind of
where I'm at this interesting place of, of still like figuring
out different aspects of where I'm at my diet and and whatnot.
But all that's to say, that's where I'm at.
And there's no definitive proof that you haven't, that you do in
fact have hepatitis C. Like there's debate as to that.
Mainstream conventional medicine would say absolutely not.
And yet there's these other, this other side that says no,
there's no such thing. And, and when you look at the
science for yourself as they have and I have started to it's,
it's like, I don't see how that results in you isolating a
virus. You don't have a viral particle
out there in a jar somewhere that is hepatitis C.
And, and, and even going back to when I think it was the late
18th or 19th century now they, they, they came up with this
whole viral theory of viruses before, I think it was before
they even had the electron microscope.
And the electron microscope I believe is, is the microscope
that's supposed to be able to see particles and things as
small as a virus or what not. So anyway, it's just, it's very
interesting if, if I get to the bottom of it, Robert, I'll have
to come back on and fill everybody in as to how it all
concluded. But in the meantime, I am
working on healing my liver and I, I have many people that have
said you can absolutely heal. And so, yeah, just working on
finding out if there's a toxin or a poison or something in my
body that is just really aggravating it.
And so, yeah, more to come. We will get to the bottom of it.
Is it manifesting itself in any like noticeable symptoms or
you're just noticing higher, you know, liver markers on your
blood panels? Yeah, that's The thing is, so
most people with hepatitis C, they don't have any other
symptoms and there's nothing else really to write home about.
The biggest, maybe most common thing people could say is some
fatigue. But I mean, who doesn't have a
little bout of fatigue every once in a while, you know?
So yeah, there's really, really not much to to say.
And yeah, I, I did just find it in routine blood work when my
holistic practitioner who had helped me with the lichen
sclerosis, she pulls up my blood work and she's like, Autumn,
what is the matter with your liver?
And I'm like, what are you talking about?
And she's like, I gotta check you for the different types of
hepatitis. And I'm like, well, that can't
be mine because I don't have any way I could have gotten
anything. So she checked and yeah, came
back so well. That's interesting for sure.
Is there like anything that you're trying to specifically
include or avoid as far as dietary or environmental factors
go in an attempt to, you know, help with the liver function?
Yeah, so definitely gluten. Fruits do really well with the
liver. Meat.
I love meat and I feel like my body needs it, but it also can
be a little hard on the liver if I have too much of it too often.
So just trying to find the balance with that and checking
in on some blood work and, and, and my liver enzymes and that
kind of thing. But there has been some really
cool modalities. What before we leave this topic,
I want to, I want to make sure and give a shout out to
something called Bowen Therapy. Have you ever heard of that?
No. What is it?
Oh my gosh, it's like this incredible modality.
It's an Australian modality. I believe the man's name was Tom
Bowen. You'll have to, you'll have to
go look this up. But it is a it, it does a
multitude of things. So Tom Bowen was able to pretty
much take someone out of like having a frozen shoulder and
being able to have some mobility in like 12 minutes.
And he helped all sorts of conditions from pain to
migraines. He, he's like my Bowen therapist
has literally saved people from needing surgery.
So what it is is it is this like, it's like slight
manipulations in the fascia. So it's a little bit of like a,
a tug and pull type movement. It, it sounds, it looks like
they're literally doing nothing. I mean, you're like, why am I
spending money on this? And it said that you want to, if
you're going to give it a try, you need to do at least three
times. And so, yeah, it's incredible.
They do they, they have these different places on the body.
So some of the places I asked 'cause I was curious, some of
the places correlate with the same like points as acupuncture,
but others are actually completely unique to Bowen.
And it can address the nervous system and calm the nervous
system. It has like a, a vagal nerve
reset point. It also, so when you look into
the fascia, which I'm sure you probably know this, but the
fascia is responsible. It's like our signaling highway
and our body communicates with itself through the fascia.
And so by doing some of these little manipulations, he had
figured out to essentially how to send signals to parts of the
body that need healing or need attention.
So maybe there's pain and inflammation and in a knee or,
you know, something in an ankle. My mom, she didn't even know she
had broken her foot. She was like walking on her foot
for a month and a half. And everyone said, oh, your
foot's fine. She ended up having like, a
actually a bit of a break because when it finally healed,
it healed really funky. And but she had such swelling in
her foot and her ankle. And she got a session of Bowen.
This was like, you know, probably a month in or
something. And we could not believe how
much the swelling went down. I mean, it was just incredible.
And so I had a friend that had sciatica.
One treatment took the sciatica away.
And I mean, you would laugh at what they're doing, but it's
such precise little manipulations and so powerful.
So I would encourage everyone go, you know, hop on YouTube,
look up bow and therapy and it's it's incredible.
And I will say, let's see, I was about a year, I think, into my
journey with this liver thing and it's still a mystery.
It's still so interesting. But I had gotten my third
session of Bowen. I was like, OK, I'm giving it
your three. That's it.
You know, and I had just gotten blood work done.
I got blood work done prior and had a marker starting place.
But right after I my third session and it literally brought
my liver enzymes down to normal. I could not believe it.
Then like, you know, the passionate person that I am, I
like randomly went off and did some parasite cleanse because I
got into this, you know, path of wanting to look at parasites as
a possibility. And unfortunately that did
something and just shot it all back up.
But man, it is the most incredible modality for so many
things and for just relaxing the nervous system.
Let me just put it this way. The gal that does Bowen work
that I see, she used to be a massage therapist.
She killed her hands for years and now she switched to Bowen.
She is actually helping people far greater than massage.
So she says things that she wasn't ever able to do with
massage. She can do that and more with
Bowen Therapy. Yeah, I'm definitely going to
check it out. How do you is it BOENBOWN?
What is it, Bowen? Bowen OK, I'll check that out
for sure after the podcast. Yeah, and they, if there's a
website you can go to look and find certified practitioners in
and around you. There's like quite a few of them
in Hawaii. I, I like looked up one once
'cause I had like a kink in my neck.
And instead of going to a chiropractor, which
chiropractors are great, They still have their place in my
opinion. But I'm like, I want to get a
bone therapist. And so sure enough, she she
helps so much. Well, 100% agree with the fascia
tissue being such a, you know, predominant factor in levels of
stress, fatigue, recovery. Like the fascia tissue is
literally interlinking every single muscle in her body.
So if that is not synced up properly, you're going to have a
hard time recovering. And that can most definitely
have an impact on your nervous state whether you're stressed or
relaxed. So that makes that makes
intuitive sense to me. Yeah.
Very interesting. Well I am very curious to see
how all this plays out for you. So what is the primary objective
or focus now? Like where?
Where is most of your time and tension going at the moment?
Well, I have been through numerous different modalities,
things that I didn't even realize that we're out there,
which I will just kind of share quickly as a mention to continue
the awareness. I've had a lot of Ivs so like
vitamin CIIV, hydrogen peroxide, UV light, which they send your
blood through like AUV light and it's supposed to destroy
bacteria and viruses and parasites, etcetera.
I've done a lot of detoxing protocols.
I had this one really cool energetic modality that it's
called therapy. And it's, I don't know how
common it is that you can find it.
It seems to be pretty costly. And this gal who's in LA seemed
to kind of pride herself on the fact that she had one of these
machines. But it's basically got a Tesla
coil underneath the table that, like, powers these noble gases.
And you lay in between it. And the energetic field that is
exchanged between the noble gases is one that raises the
like and ignites the electrons in the body and kind of raises.
How would you say rejuvenates the low like sickly stagnant
areas of the body? So say like my liver is
probably, well, it is, it's inflamed and it's not
functioning optimally. And so it was that with some
microcurrents that she put directly on my body was really
helping. So there's just a lot of cool
things out there that we can do. And, you know, there's very
physical treatments like Ivs and supplements and cleanses.
And then there's, you know, some of these energetic things that
are physical, tangible energy fields that work, you know, in
harmony with the body. But recently I have I watched
the documentary Earthing I I don't know if you've had one of
my. Employees just watched it.
I have not seen it, but one of my employees just watched it.
OK, yeah, Clint Ober, he is behind the documentary and he
had done a lot of research with grounding.
And so I just bought a grounding mat for my bed and man, I'm
sleeping so good. And it's interesting because
apparently I didn't realize I've heard about grounding and I'm
like, all for it. Like, great, yeah, I'll put my
feet on the ground when I can. But I didn't realize that
literally you can't stay grounded for a period of time
and still have inflammation in the body.
So it helps like renew, remove and neutralize inflammation and
the the thermal images that take place before someone grounds and
even 2 hours after is a significant increase or
decrease. And so, yeah, so I've been doing
that and I am currently on just a supplement protocol.
I was also doing some light wave patches.
I don't know if you've heard of those.
It stirs up like a copper peptide, which ultimately
triggers into more stem cell production.
So yeah, I'm still feeling some things out over here working
through. I'm also, like I said, doing the
nervous system coaching and brain rewiring 'cause I, I can
be a bit of a spaz. I have a lot of passions and I
can go, go, go. And so that was one of the
things that this diagnosis has actually been such a blessing.
It's furthered my awareness and my just understanding of of how
the body works. And therefore I can further go
on to help and educate people. But yeah, I had to get real with
myself, with my nervous system. I was on the go too much and,
you know, just had to dig up some things and had to face some
things and actually get more in touch with autumn.
Why are you feeling this way? And, and, and then work towards
reversing that and learning to calm myself down.
And so that's a beautiful process that I would, you know,
highly recommend as well. Yeah, I think, I think the, the,
the biohacking space, just kind of listening to you go through
some of these different modalities is always very
interesting to me. Like some of them it's like,
man, that makes total sense. Some of them, it's like, I can't
possibly see how that would be efficacious.
But I appreciate everybody doing all these things and
experimenting and figuring out what works and what doesn't.
That's how that's how momentum is made.
Like you have to, you have to put it to a test to see what
works and what doesn't and be objective and subjective with
it. So I think it's also what you're
doing all this stuff. Yeah, and I want to say, like
most, the reason why I'm having to do so many things is because
I'm the trailblazer over here. You know, most of the time for,
I would say most conditions, you can find someone out there, a
holistic practitioner of some sort that has usually helped
people overcome XYZ. And in my certain circumstances,
there really has not been that in that.
In that documentary, there's actually a gal that talks about
how she or no, that was a different documentary, but there
is a gal that talked about how she fasted and supposedly her
hepatitis C like went away. So that will probably eventually
come up on my list. But I'm, I'm paving away over
here for something. So it's a process, it's a
journey. I'm learning a lot.
And like I said, I I will be back when I have conquered and
we will share. Yeah, no, I'm always very keen
to learn more and I'm intrigued to see where this journey takes
you. So by all means, keep me in the
loop and let me know what you find out as you test out these
different things. Figure out what works, what
doesn't, and and definitely keep me posted.
I will. And one more thing I want to ask
you and throw in before we, before we end is holistic or
biological dentistry. Have you dug much into that?
Dentistry. Biological.
Dentistry, yes. No, I'm very picky on my my
dentist, but what is what is biological dentistry?
OK, so this is fascinating and this is part of my journey.
Yet again, there is a practitioner.
There's there's quite a few practitioners now you can go
look up one of them. His name is Doctor Blodgett on
Instagram and he is very much in the know of how hidden dental
infections can actually contribute to some of our
illness and disease. And that was one of the rocks
that I have had to go turn over. You know, when someone has
cancer, they adjust their diet, they adjust their mental and
emotional state. They, you know, they actually
look at the mouth and and dentistry.
And so who knew that you actually want to go to a dentist
that is conservative and not overly, you know, filling your
mouth. So a biological dentist is
someone, let's see how I can wrap this up, someone that is
mindful of the body and oral connection and how when you
drill and compromise a tooth, there is always risk for
infection and bacteria, especially with root canals.
In fact, I was just talking to a biological dentist recently
that's working with some studies with women of breast cancer.
And they said that so far they have a small study group, but so
far every single woman in their group that had breast cancer had
a root canal. And they're finding that root
canals like Doctor Blodgett, you'll see on Instagram.
And then this other doctor in in Missouri, his name is Doctor Yu.
Why I think it was Yu. He does energetic testing that
checks for your teeth and if essentially your body is trying
to reject a tooth, if it's in harmony with your body or if
it's not. And through that, he has written
now medical research papers that I believe have wound up in
journals that he's literally finding like a woman that had
chronically high blood pressure, tried everything, found he found
a tooth that was infected. Now, mind you, the dentist
doesn't see this. This is a hidden dental
infection where the body is constantly stressed and
constantly trying to ward off this infection that's in the
mouth. But literally nothing can be
done because it's in the mouth hidden in this like this kind of
cavitation that has that has opened up and pulled the tooth
high blood pressure was gone the next day.
And it is fascinating and yet just another area to look at if
someone is not overcoming something to go find a dentist.
Now it's not all biological dentists that do that like
energetic testing to find this and they, they can do like a
cone, I think it's called a cone beam X-ray and that can see
deeper into it. Like for example, wisdom teeth
that were taken out, you know, as a child.
I have a friend that had lymphoma that she was treating
it naturally and she had her wisdom tooth.
It didn't completely close up. There was a hollow space in
there. She had infection in that space.
They ended up digging it out, testing it, sure enough,
infection. And they had also diagnosed this
with the energetic testing saying.
You've got something bad happening in this space.
So they went to a biological dentist such as Blodgett, and
there's some others out there. There's a website actually that
you can find a biological dentist in your area.
And anyway, they actually don't fill the space or they don't do
root canals with the Super toxic materials that the average
dentist uses. They actually spin down your
blood and your own plasma and that way it won't be rejected
and it's just part of the body filling in more of the body.
And they've had great success with this, but it's just such an
interesting topic and area to focus on.
And it basically learned to like try and stay away from root
canals at all expenses. You might consider having
someone on there on your podcast like Doctor Blodgett.
He talks about metal in the mouth and, and mercury and how
it's basically like just it's a salt bath of metal and salt and
it's like having like a battery in your mouth with all these
different types of metals and that, you know, mercury is
constantly off gassing in the mouth.
Even just the slightest little friction of you chewing causes
it to off gas. And so then that's a complete
other stressor of of that, you know, taking place in your body
having to deal with that and the the blood brain barrier and all
that. So anyway, whole other thing to
go down, but definitely go check it out.
Yeah, no, it's all super interesting to me.
I definitely know of people that have had heavy metal toxicity
due to, you know, feelings that they've had throughout the
years. I've been super fortunate in
that department. Like I don't have any, any tooth
work done whatsoever apart from just routine cleaning.
Like I haven't had, I've never had a cavity and that stuff.
So that's been my saving grace there.
But yeah, I think it only makes sense to go as much of the
biological right as possible and not do any unnecessary work or
certainly not use any, you know, negative fillings that would
cause some type of heavy metal toxist.
That just does not seem like a sound, sound game plan at all.
So I will definitely dive deeper into that.
Yeah, they're just more, they're just more naturally minded.
They use ozone, ozone gases. When they like clean a tooth,
they'll fill it with like ozone gas to help kill any bacteria.
So it they've got all sorts of fancy stuff they'll have like
filtered water and all sorts of extra things just because
they're more holistically naturally minded.
Well I will definitely check it out.
I I tend to default to the holistic approach whenever the
option presents itself. So I will definitely see if I
can find some biological dentists in my area because I'm
actually looking for a dentist right now.
So that makes total sense. Awesome Autumn.
Well, I've got a laundry list of bio hacks to dive into going
forward and I definitely do want to hear how your journey unfolds
and what all you learn the process as you get deeper into
it. Where Where do people go to find
out more about you and follow along?
Oh well, thanks so much for having me.
I will get you the link to that clean swap clean swap guide.
I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Autumn dot Mcleese, also on
Facebook and got the No better Do Better podcast and
autumnmcleese.com. I also have a no better do
better like consulting mentorship program.
I've been in this natural world now for over 14 years.
So essentially I help people kind of get started.
I kind of help guide them into how to redo their kitchen, get
cleaner brands, all the way to finding a holistic doctor or
dentist or getting connected with the right people, kind of
directing and guiding them in the direction that they want to
go. So for those that feel
overwhelmed, I don't know where to start.
Well, that's when you come to me.
Awesome, well I will definitely link out, make it easy for
people to find you. Definitely keep me posted and if
there's everything I can do for you on you, just let me know.
Thanks so much, and it's been such an honor to be here with
you. It's been a pleasure.
Take care and have a good one. You too.