1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,040 When you're using panels for this, it's great because it's a 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:04,800 cheap and easy way to get it out to market. 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,480 Like strap a bunch of LEDs to A to a circuit board and put it in 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,480 a box that like how much cheaper and easier can you get? 5 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:16,320 The problem is that as a Photon delivery system, this is not 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,720 very accurate. So if you're 2 inches closer or 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,000 two inches further away, it's a really big difference on the 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,360 dosing. When you're using LE DS, they 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,720 emit light in what's called a Lambertian patterns. 10 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,800 When you're trying to dose internal tissue, it's really 11 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,119 not, not, not the best. It just doesn't allow you to 12 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:33,600 kind of penetrate through to that. 13 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,200 And if you are turning up the power enough to penetrate 14 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,280 through to the internal tissue with an LED, then the 15 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,040 superficial tissue is being overdosed. 16 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,360 And so there's just a balance there to be found. 17 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,440 That's essentially what we've done with our devices is a deep 18 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,840 red is one of the, the best wavelengths to be able to use 19 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,200 for the shallower tissue. Then we use lasers for the the 20 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,320 infrared to penetrate through and and dose the internal tissue 21 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,600 and photo acceptors. And we are live for us. 22 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,760 Don't worry brother. Dude awesome. 23 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,280 So excited to be here today. Hey, excited to be chatting with 24 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:01,160 you man. Where are you located at? 25 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,239 I'm in central Mexico up in the mountains. 26 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:09,040 It's a, a mountain town called Queretro, which is a just a been 27 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,880 a great place to live. I, I, I normally live in, in 28 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:17,040 China, but I moved to Mexico when COVID started without 29 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,400 really intentionally doing so. It just, we, we went traveling 30 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,040 because China was going crazy with COVID and we don't want to 31 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,720 get locked in and we got locked out. 32 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,960 So my dog and my house and everything were, were still 33 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:30,160 there and I couldn't get back to them. 34 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,480 And so we, we moved to Mexico kind of just overnight, just 35 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,680 just without, you know, being able to get back to our house. 36 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,320 So we've been here for about four years now. 37 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:39,400 Awesome. Where? 38 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,600 Where are you from originally? Atlanta. 39 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,760 Atlanta, so I I want to watch you, man. 40 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,880 Like how? How'd you go from Atlanta to 41 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,240 China, New Mexico, I guess with the pandemic, but what brought 42 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,720 you to China? I studied Chinese in school and 43 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,440 I, I went over as part of my Chinese study to go study at 44 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,160 Nanjing University and I really liked it. 45 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,720 And so I wanted to move back and I did, I, I was starting a 46 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,640 business and I got up to a point where he could kind of pay me 47 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,560 enough to, to leave school and, and go kind of do, do my own 48 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,080 thing from a, a, an entrepreneurial standpoint. 49 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,080 And I love that. I've always kind of liked 50 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,280 building businesses and, and you know, one nice thing about being 51 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,040 young and being an entrepreneur is you don't know what you don't 52 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,680 know. And so there's a, there's a, 53 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,560 there's a hubris that goes with that. 54 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,360 And, you know, hubris and, and ignorance are, are pretty highly 55 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,040 correlated, I imagine. And, and that's, that's kind of 56 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,280 what drove me to, to start building my first businesses in 57 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:38,280 China. And I, I loved it. 58 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,360 So I stayed almost almost 20 years there. 59 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,440 Nice, nice. When when did you launch Kenyan? 60 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,360 About 4 1/2 years ago, I I actually met my current business 61 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,000 partner through China. I was, I played rugby with his 62 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,360 younger brother in Guangzhou for the City team, the Guangzhou 63 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,680 Rams, who I love the one of my favorite sports ever. 64 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,960 I, I took it up at the the ripe young age of 38, which is 65 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,920 probably not when you want to take up rugby if I had to 66 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:09,840 suggest it for people. But I was playing rugby with, 67 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,800 with Max, who was the younger brother of my, my business 68 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,520 partner, Tom. And I wanted to start a business 69 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,480 that was mission driven. And I was saying some things to 70 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,800 him about this when we're having a coffee that triggered for him 71 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,240 and the idea that his brother had had used some of the same 72 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,840 language. And so he connected us and we, 73 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,480 we ended up spending, you know, two months before he even looked 74 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,240 at technology or building a company or anything talking 75 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,440 about what our mission should be. 76 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,360 And, and what that came down to in the end was increasing the 77 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,720 quality of life, the largest number of people we can in the 78 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,720 most substantial and measurable way we can. 79 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,280 And that that kind of holds us. That's essentially our North 80 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,120 Star as a company. And it holds us accountable for, 81 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,000 you know, how do we get this, you know, get technology on 82 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,680 people that's going to help them improve their life? 83 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,520 How do we keep it cheap enough that a lot of people can, can, 84 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,440 can adopt it, But how do we make it something that's meaningful 85 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,640 enough from a measurement standpoint that's going to 86 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,600 really kind of change the trajectory of what they do? 87 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,280 And, and we, we see so many different testimonial stories 88 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,000 coming in these days of people getting out of pain and, and 89 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,080 back into movement that it's, it's yeah, it's been, it's been 90 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,760 a really gratifying journey to to go through. 91 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,880 No man, it's awesome. Were were you because you were 92 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,040 building businesses before launching Kenyan 4 1/2 years 93 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,960 ago? So like what was the difference? 94 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,320 Like what? What kept you from continuing on 95 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,640 the the prior business endeavours before starting this 96 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,160 one? We ended up being acquired. 97 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,120 It's a typically I, I, you know, the, the smaller ones when I was 98 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,000 younger, we, we ended up selling off and, and having them 99 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,120 acquired at a, at a lower, at a smaller size because I would hit 100 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,280 a ceiling for what my competence level would allow me to do. 101 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,440 So it's, it's great to have hubris, but occasionally you run 102 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,040 into a wall of reality from a performance standpoint and a 103 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,160 competent standpoint. And you know, my first business, 104 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,840 I did everything. I didn't know how to delegate, I 105 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,280 didn't know how to plan, I didn't know how to like. 106 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,800 So you just end up learning a lot of different things and, and 107 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,360 there's a ceiling to that from an entrepreneurial standpoint. 108 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,560 And so every business kind of got, you know, bigger and bigger 109 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,640 as we went and really started kind of getting closer and 110 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,280 closer to what, you know, what those missions were that I felt 111 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:15,320 could move the needle from a systemic standpoint. 112 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,720 So the business before this was a, an LED lighting and controls 113 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,400 business when LE DS were coming out trying to reduce electrical 114 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,480 load, trying to leverage technology in a way that could 115 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,960 really help promote people adopting green and clean energy 116 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,320 sources a lot faster because you could lower the load from a 117 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,880 lighting standpoint. And then also just doing things 118 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,600 from a health standpoint with with lighting. 119 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,320 So that was actually acquired by Eaton, which is the, the, I 120 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,480 think the second largest lighting company in the world at 121 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,160 the time. And yeah, open another, another 122 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,960 chapter and, and here we are. And I feel like with, with each 123 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,920 successive business, it's dialed in a little bit more directly 124 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,720 what that outcome wants to be from a systemic standpoint, 125 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,920 which with what we're doing right now, we're, we're finding 126 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,640 most of our users are moving away from pharmaceutical 127 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,080 solutions and finding a really a much healthier path to treat the 128 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,760 underlying issue of inflammation or what's causing their pain 129 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,720 versus kind of trying to dope their way through it. 130 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,040 And and again, that's, that's really in line with what our, 131 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,720 our kind of ethos and, and focus and mission are as a company. 132 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:20,400 What, what was the first business? 133 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,520 Was it in the health space too or totally, totally apart from 134 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:24,800 that? Totally apart. 135 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,480 So it's it's come more and more in this direction over time. 136 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,120 The first business was a fabric business buying and, and 137 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,000 reselling and then kind of designing and buying and 138 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,880 reselling and and re engineering and etcetera, different fabrics. 139 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,760 And what I found was that when I'm in commodity businesses, the 140 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,880 amount of value that I can add for those is, has been more 141 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,240 limited. What I, I tend to do better at 142 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,360 is when and what I tend to have happier users on is, is when I 143 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,600 can synthesize a lot of really difficult data. 144 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,600 And so for what we do with Kenyan, that's really kind of 145 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,800 there's a gap between what we see from laser and technology 146 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,840 and engineering experts and Physiology experts relative to 147 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,840 how light therapy could be applied to, to the Physiology 148 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,680 and what you can expect from a adaptation standpoint. 149 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,800 And so we, we really live in the middle of that with a, a really 150 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,560 strong kind of, you know, our, our CTO is a anatomic physicist 151 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,440 with a huge amount of laser experience. 152 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,520 Our, our chief physiologist is an MIT guy who's a 153 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,720 bioinformatics kind of specialist. 154 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,560 And we're, we're really, really deep on both the, the technical 155 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,640 and the, I would say both of these are technical. 156 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,880 So the technical aspect from a, an engineering and, and product 157 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,920 and laser standpoint, but also from a Physiology standpoint. 158 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,840 And I I think that separates us from a lot of the the 159 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,160 competitors we have in the field. 160 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,160 Yeah, the, the red light therapy is getting super hot within the 161 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,720 biohacking space. And when I go to like these 162 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,240 conferences to speak on nutrition, I mean, there are 163 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,760 more and more boosts and companies and and brands that 164 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,120 are coming into that market. Were you dealing with any type 165 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,520 of ailment or injury that they kind of motivated you to dive 166 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:06,800 down that rabbit hole even further? 167 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,480 11 big one is I'm just getting old. 168 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,160 I, I mean, a mid middle age now 45 years old, turning 46 this 169 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,880 year, still playing rugby, still training CrossFit, still still a 170 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,360 bit of a knucklehead as to how to avoid the injuries and, and, 171 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,520 and the downtime from that. And I, I think, you know, the 172 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,400 old kind of the, the old injuries that have come out of 173 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,480 that from kind of being a lifelong competitor, torn 174 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,159 meniscus with meniscus, you know, surgery is hit or miss. 175 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,960 And even when you have a, you know, a hit, when you have a 176 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,240 successful surgery, the outcomes aren't great. 177 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,400 So with meniscus tears, you often end up just kind of 178 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,680 lifelong chronic inflammation. And, and so that's, that was one 179 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:54,200 point lower back injuries. I tore muscles in my lower back 180 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,960 grappling when I was younger. And so that flares up old 181 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,520 injuries. We find this with a lot of 182 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,000 athletes that we interact with is that applying targeted laser 183 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,880 therapy to this tissue, often the tissue that's had traumatic 184 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,720 damage from sports from injuries from surgery, you know, from car 185 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,880 accidents, it doesn't heal 100%. And so you see impaired 186 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,320 cardiovascular delivery to that tissue and people often re 187 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,040 injure the same tissue because of that. 188 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,680 So it just becomes kind of a weak point. 189 00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:28,280 And, and for me that, that weak point was the left knee in the 190 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,120 lower back. And it doesn't help that I'm, 191 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,680 you know, 6 foot 3 as a Crossfitter is, is a little bit 192 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,840 kind of outside the, the standard deviation kind of 193 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,600 norms. And so I, I, you know, with 194 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,520 deadlifts and things like this or, or like trying ego lifting, 195 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,440 trying to go too heavy on Olympic lifts and stuff like 196 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,000 this, I tweak my back a lot. And yeah, so those those two 197 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,760 things, it used to be if I tweak my back doing deadlifts, I'm out 198 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,400 for a couple of months. We now have with these targeted 199 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,320 laser therapies. I'm I'm back in and moving and, 200 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,800 and probably not moving, you know, the 100% of the weight, 201 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,840 but like back in and moving 50% of the weight within three or 202 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,000 four days, which is life changing for me. 203 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,600 That's just been kind of awesome. 204 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,200 So that's how I've been applying it. 205 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,040 Personally, I would say the one thing that's come up recently 206 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,800 that we work with a lab out of Japan that developed a a really 207 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,280 cool therapy protocol called proximal priority therapy. 208 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,920 And it's essentially taking the modules and aligning them on 209 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,840 your neck because your, your largest blood vessels in your 210 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,760 body are, you know, kind of go through your neck and that gives 211 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,800 you very kind of close to the surface access to them. 212 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:38,440 And so doing the neck for, for treating the blood with the 213 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,520 lasers and then doing the, the lower guts, your gut is just the 214 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,760 center of everything. You know, both, both from a 215 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,040 neurological standpoint, which is kind of counter intuitive, 216 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,520 but also from an immune health and, and what they call from the 217 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,840 research standpoint affect. So just how you feel your mood 218 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,960 on a daily basis. So we Long story short, I've 219 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,400 been, I've been doing this kind of neck and and gut treatment 220 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:03,240 that we started with them just from a trial standpoint. 221 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,400 After about 10 days or two weeks, I was just feeling 222 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,560 amazing from this. And so I've, I've kept that one 223 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:12,560 on for like the last year. I get sick, you know, 110th of 224 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,840 as much as I used to. I have two kids and so they drag 225 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,400 and stuff from school. This has been amazing for an 226 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,520 immune immune response and, and from a training recovery and 227 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,000 really just that affect like how I feel on a daily basis 228 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,920 standpoint. So if people are up for trying 229 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,000 it out, it's it's a, it's a really cool protocol to try. 230 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:31,600 Were you dabbling with, you know, using laser treatment for 231 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,680 your ailments before you built your own? 232 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,080 Were you like looking at other competitors in the market using 233 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,040 those seeing benefit from them and like OK, I can do this 234 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,760 better? Yeah. 235 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,480 We, we and I don't like to knock other people's products because 236 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,760 there's this kind of a this, this with new technologies, 237 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,000 there's always kind of these, these kind of phases of how 238 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,480 products roll out and and get better over time. 239 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,400 But I think, you know, essentially a couple of things 240 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,600 that were out there when we launched our product. 241 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,760 The only thing that was out there from a laser standpoint 242 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,920 when we launched our product was essentially desktop handheld 243 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:06,720 devices which are both 30 to $50,000 and not convenient and 244 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,360 not travel friendly and hard to build real kind of meaningful 245 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,440 habits around. And those were the only ones 246 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,400 that were really dosing effectively the, the kind of the 247 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,600 first generation. But we look at, look at as early 248 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:24,240 generation designs for photobiomodulation or panels and 249 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,800 they're just not very good for it's, it's great because it 250 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:32,000 exposes people to the, the idea and the kind of the concept and, 251 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,400 and kind of some of the underpinning mechanisms and 252 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,960 research around photobiomodulation. 253 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,040 But what we've found and what the literature has has shown 254 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,800 from a medical research standpoint is that light is kind 255 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,240 of like pharmaceuticals in, in a couple of ways. 1 is that the 256 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,600 body responds to it in what's known as a, a biphasic or Arnt 257 00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:00,080 Schultz curve, which essentially just means like the more photons 258 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,840 you deliver up to a certain point, the better the outcomes 259 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,240 get. And then it jumps the shark and 260 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,600 the more photons you deliver, the less effective it is. 261 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:14,360 So that kind of sine wave type look when you're using panels 262 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,920 for this, it's, it's great because it's a cheap and easy 263 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,600 way to get it out to market. Like strap a bunch of LEDs to A, 264 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,880 to a circuit board and put it in a box that like how much, how 265 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,120 much cheaper and easier can you get? 266 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:31,360 The the problem is that as a photon delivery system, this is 267 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,080 not very accurate. So if you're 2 inches closer or 268 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,240 two inches further away, it's a really big difference on the, on 269 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,720 the dosing and, and the second piece of that dosing is that 270 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,640 when you're using LE DS, they emit light in what's called a 271 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,680 Lambertian pattern. So they're, they're a chip based 272 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:52,240 technology. The chips emit light in 360°. 273 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,680 They're, they're, they're kind of fab through what's, they're 274 00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:59,520 grown through what's called a metal organic vapor, chemical 275 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,880 vapor deposition process where you have like a, a sapphire base 276 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,280 and you just grow these, these semiconductors on top of it. 277 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:07,960 They've been etched. But when you put them into an 278 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,680 electronic part to be able to use them in a, in a device, what 279 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:16,360 happens is that restricts that 360° emission pattern back down 280 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,240 to 120°. That's still really broad. 281 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,120 So when you're, when you're trying to get into internal 282 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:29,800 tissue and dose some of these internal areas of the body and 283 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,880 it's some of the internal photo acceptors, it's, it's not 284 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,440 terrible for, for dosing, you know, skin if you'd like to 285 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,240 increase collagen and, and kind of do an anti aging thing, it's 286 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,000 still not great because you can't really measure it very 287 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,600 effectively and you can't standardize it. 288 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,280 So you don't really see these used in medical trials, but when 289 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:50,160 you're trying to dose internal tissue, it's really not, not the 290 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,520 best it, it just doesn't allow you to kind of penetrate through 291 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,800 to that. And if you are turning up the 292 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,520 power enough to penetrate through to the internal tissue 293 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,840 with an LED, then the superficial tissue is being 294 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,160 overdosed. And so there's just a balance 295 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,040 there to be found. And that's, that's essentially 296 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,800 what we've done with our devices is, is balanced a red light, 297 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,000 Deep red is one of the, the, the best wavelengths to be able to 298 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,040 use for the shallower tissue. But even with the deep red, you 299 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,480 wanted to be able to penetrate a little bit better than it does 300 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,320 with 120. So we use deep red for our 301 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,040 superficial treatment and for the tissue that's, that's more 302 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,400 superficial kind of the skin tissue and just just below that. 303 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:33,320 And that's actually a, with a 30° primary optic. 304 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,200 So it goes from 120 back down to 30. 305 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,000 And then we use lasers for the, the infrared to penetrate 306 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,680 through and, and dose the internal tissue and, and photo 307 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,920 acceptors. And and you know, it's a really 308 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,360 big difference from an outcome standpoint that you can drive 309 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,520 when you're dosing essentially in 3D versus just a a like a 2D 310 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,360 superficial dosing, if that makes sense. 311 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,000 Yeah. Plus it's just way more 312 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,640 convenient how you'll have it like set up on a like a strap 313 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,520 where you can put it wherever it needs to be. 314 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,760 I mean, the people that have like the massive panels, I've 315 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,880 typically see them just in like the corner of their bedroom 316 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:05,360 emitting red light through the room. 317 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,960 But like not dosing, not standardized, not effective at 318 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,400 all. Yeah, again, it's, it's why you 319 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:16,120 don't see them in research papers is because, you know, 320 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,360 researchers have set amount of dollars they're going to put 321 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,600 into things. And so they want to know what 322 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,640 the dose is so they can know what the outcomes are going to 323 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,320 be. And when you're doing that from 324 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,280 a, a just kind of spray and pray type approach, you, you can't. 325 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,520 And and you know, we, we work with a number of different labs 326 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,960 around the world. There's, there's been such, such 327 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,000 a kind of an awesome, you know, it's just a great time to be 328 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,080 alive as a technologist for being able to interact with 329 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,120 these different labs about what they're, what they're treating 330 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,800 with this. But that's one of the things we 331 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,000 found is like the labs are also super excited because they're 332 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,960 like, you mean, I don't have to pay for like a, a, you know, 30 333 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,880 to $50,000 device. And I can get, you know, I can 334 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,520 take this and put it on 100 people instead. 335 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,280 And, and kind of, yeah. So it's, it's been, that's, 336 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,160 that's been one of the, the best things for us though, is the, 337 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,800 the kind of how our, our assumptions in designing the 338 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,040 product were that if we reduce the price from, you know, 30K 339 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,880 plus down to sub $500 that we can, you know, we're, we're 340 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,480 going to drive more adoption and that people will consider this 341 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:17,560 instead of taking NSAID's or opiates or whatever they're 342 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,040 using for their, their pain right now or their inflammation 343 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,760 and chronic pain right now. And if we can help them make it 344 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,960 easier to use, make it travel friendly, makes it easy to 345 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,840 charge, make it something we, we actually had one of the first 346 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,200 NFL teams that we started working with. 347 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,480 They're on planes so much that their, their head physio was 348 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,800 like, I can't get my guys in a, in a bed for these things, but 349 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,520 they love using the devices. But when I carry it on the 350 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,080 plane, I got to carry these things and they're bringing out 351 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,160 the rubber gloves every time I go through security. 352 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,840 So we went just on his behalf. We went through a couple more 353 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,000 extra FCC processes just to make sure that that you can carry it 354 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,160 on a plane with you. The batteries are all cleared. 355 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,600 It's not going to blow it up like Samsung devices or anything 356 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,440 like this. You're, you're, you know, you 357 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,880 can maintain your like while you're traveling on the road, 358 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,240 you can maintain your habits because you know, if you're, if 359 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,840 you're able to stack this with something that you do on a daily 360 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,280 basis, people see amazing results. 361 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,760 This is, this is really what drives the best results is 362 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,680 consistency. And what drives consistency is 363 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,440 habits. So, you know, there's a bunch of 364 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,760 books out there, Atomic Habits, you know, a number of different 365 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,760 books on why building habits is so powerful. 366 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,960 But we've seen the same thing, particularly with our older 367 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,440 users. They have very strong habits. 368 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,120 And when you can get them to include this in with their 369 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:37,120 pragmatic, not kind of aspirational habits, they do 370 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,040 amazingly. They they're, they're just so 371 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,280 happy and they, they get, you know, great benefits from a 372 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,920 tissue improvement standpoint, pain reduction, just seeing 373 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,560 people get back in the move. And that's, that's, you know, 374 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,000 again, it's our mission. It's what we're here for. 375 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,800 But it's so, it's so gratifying. Totally, man. 376 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,760 Can you kind of just go down the rabbit hole and talk about the 377 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,360 Physiology? Like why is photobiomodulation 378 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,880 beneficial? What's the use case scenario? 379 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,760 Who would benefit from it? Like just kind of go into the 380 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:02,520 weeds on that. Absolutely. 381 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,480 So I, I think there's a, a, there's a number of different 382 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,160 pathologies. So instead of kind of diving in 383 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,080 for all the different pathologies, I, I'd like to just 384 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,440 start with some of the mechanisms. 385 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,480 Increased blood flow. We, we release nitric oxide into 386 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,160 the blood. It's a dilating factor. 387 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,400 So you see increased blood flow to the area that you're 388 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,400 treating, but also when you increase nitric oxide into your 389 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,800 blood flow, not only is it going to dilate those capillaries, it 390 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,520 also teaches them to dilate more effectively. 391 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:36,960 So you have you, you de stiffen your cardiovascular tissue so 392 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,680 your blood vessels get more pliable. 393 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,200 And one of the big risks for older generation is when you 394 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,120 don't have, it's kind of like your house. 395 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,880 If you, if you think about kind of, instead of having pipes 396 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,520 through our house, we have these, these blood vessels. 397 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,360 And then when they get older and, and are, are rustier, 398 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,880 they're going to break. And this is one of the things 399 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,160 that's one of the the kind of largest risks for mortality for 400 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,760 older users. Is the fact that they're instead 401 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,960 of in our body instead of being rust, it's just the fact that 402 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,120 they stiffen. And so when you can increase 403 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,920 pliability for this, these blood vessels, it makes a massive 404 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,960 difference for people from a mortality standpoint because 405 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,400 you're just removing the rust from the pipes. 406 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,080 So getting the pipes getting getting the blood flow better, 407 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:24,560 get in the get in the pipes with the rust removed and then the 408 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,960 inflammation and oxidative stress. 409 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,040 These are two of the biggest things that drive negative 410 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,400 outcomes for everyone's health on a daily basis. 411 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,560 And so there's a couple of different ways you can manage 412 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,400 those training, diet and environment, staying away from 413 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,560 kind of pollution and microplastics and, and keeping 414 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,760 your environment healthy are great. 415 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,320 There's very few tools in our toolkit aside from 416 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,520 photobiomodulation that help you impact oxidative stress 417 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,600 measurably and substantially as soon as you use it. 418 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,880 So reducing oxidative stress is a, is a really big one and 419 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,000 reducing inflammation because of that is a very big one. 420 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,240 And we can kind of go into how those work and, and what 421 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,680 triggers that from a, a stimulation standpoint. 422 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,720 But it's the that's, I would say that's the three biggest things 423 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,680 that are mechanisms for helping to solve different pathologies 424 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,160 and and just get users healthier. 425 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,360 Totally. And from like a study 426 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:26,440 standpoint, what, what's the like, what studies have been 427 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,680 done on photobiomodulation? How are those studies typically 428 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,120 conducted? What are they measuring? 429 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,800 Like just kind of give us some some stats on what the the 430 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,760 literature shows. Absolutely. 431 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,080 So it's a great question. It's, it's not a short one to 432 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,840 answer. Our, our team contribute to an 433 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,600 international group that bring together and manage a database 434 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,240 on all of the different studies on photobiomodulation. 435 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,800 There's over 7000 already. And so they're on a huge number 436 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,720 of topics. The, the impacts from these. 437 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,520 So the most common ones are things like from an inflammation 438 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,240 standpoint, we have different cytokine loads, we have muscle 439 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,920 inflammatory markers like C reactive proteins and creatine 440 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,640 kinase. There are some more broad based 441 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,440 inflammatory markers that, that we have. 442 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,400 We have full kind of write ups on this that I'll I'll send over 443 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,240 to you so you can kind of link back to. 444 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,880 It's quite a lot. And our, our team gets a little 445 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,120 angry if I start going on the biochemistry too heavily. 446 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,360 But there's Long story short, there's a huge and heavy amount 447 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,360 of data on the mechanisms underpinning inflammation when 448 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,640 you're looking at nitric oxide. So I mentioned nitric oxide as 449 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,760 a, as a, as a piece that we also interact with. 450 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,360 How the nitric oxide signaling works is this happens both 451 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:51,840 inside the cell and in, in the bloodstream. 452 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,400 In the bloodstream is a lot higher volume just because 453 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,800 there's more hemoglobin in your body than there is cytochrome C 454 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,280 oxidase. So I'll start with the 455 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,800 hemoglobin first. But when you're triggering 456 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,360 hemoglobin, it's primarily done through the eight O 8 nanometer 457 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,360 wavelength in the near infrared range. 458 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,200 It's it's invisible to our eyes. But when you start treating the, 459 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,640 when you start treating the hemoglobin, hemoglobin has four 460 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,240 binding sites for that are competitive for oxygen and 461 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,320 nitric oxide. This just reduces the affinity 462 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,320 of nitric oxide to bind to those sites. 463 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,280 So what happens is there's so much hemoglobin throughout your 464 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,560 body that and, and so much blood throughout your body that 465 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,440 whenever this, whenever you're triggering it with this eight O 466 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,000 8 nanometer light, you dump that nitric oxide And there's, 467 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,240 there's two big outcomes from that. 468 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,920 One is that hemoglobin now has more space to bind on oxygen, so 469 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,680 it's going to deliver oxygen more effectively. 470 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,160 And the second is when you dump out that nitric oxide, you're, 471 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,080 you're expanding or dilating those capillaries and, and blood 472 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,760 vessels and delivering blood more effectively. 473 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,000 And so that when you combine those two, there's just a 474 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,800 synergistic effect for being able to deliver energy and, and 475 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,760 oxygen more effectively into regions of the body with the 476 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,800 oxidative stress. That's the other piece of the 477 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,880 nitric oxide when, when you're triggering. 478 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,040 So when we trigger hemoglobin, there's four binding sites. 479 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,240 There's, there's a, an enzyme in the mitochondria called 480 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:28,320 cytochrome C oxidase, which also binds nitric oxide, but it's, 481 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,760 it's a bottleneck for energy production in the cell. 482 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,720 And so energy production in the cell we measure through ATP, 483 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,840 adenosine triphosphate and the production of adenosine 484 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,280 triphosphate increases to double when you remove this, this 485 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,240 bottleneck. So when we can treat that 486 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,520 cytochrome C oxidase there, there's a lot less of those 487 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,920 because there's kind of, you know, a, a, you know, this is in 488 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,160 the, the, essentially the, the phospholipid bilayer of the, the 489 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,600 mitochondria, which is more or less the cell wall of the, the 490 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,720 mitochondria between the kind of internal mitochondria and then 491 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,400 the, the external cell, which then has its own kind of cell 492 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,120 wall around it. But it triggers a lot of 493 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,160 signaling within the cell. And so this is called 494 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,400 mitochondria or retrograde signaling, essentially the 495 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,320 signaling between the mitochondria and the nucleus of 496 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,800 your cell. This is the area where we 497 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,880 measure oxidative stress. And there's a, there's a couple 498 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,000 of ways we try to capture this with metaphors because it's a, 499 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,960 it's a bit of a biochemistry when to go down. 500 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,400 But what our head of research has come up with, because we had 501 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,840 a had a really fun trip to, to go talk to some researchers at, 502 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,680 at Texas Tech recently. And so being in Texas, we try to 503 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,080 get it back into a football metaphor. 504 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,960 And essentially when you're able to allow that cytochrome C 505 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,600 oxidase to move faster in its role in the, in the 506 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,000 mitochondria, it's like a, an offense running more plays. 507 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,160 In the end, you're going to end up with more yards and more 508 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,600 touchdowns. But there's a, there's a very 509 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,040 short term spike in oxidative stress or reactive oxygen 510 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,800 species and your body actually learns very similar to, to kind 511 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,680 of exercise how to modulate those more effectively 512 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,120 downstream. So what happens is it flattens 513 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:15,400 those out and goes down below the oxidative stress level that 514 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,600 it had originally. And so we run more plays, we get 515 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,400 more yards, we get more touchdowns, but there are more 516 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,480 drops passes as well. And so those, those reactive 517 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,880 oxygen species are, are kind of the drop passes between the the 518 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,280 mitochondria and the the nucleus from a signaling standpoint. 519 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,680 But again, there's this, it's a very short term increase in 520 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,200 those and then then going back down below that oxidative stress 521 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,680 threshold. Gotcha. 522 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,720 And all this is happening in the presence of light therapy. 523 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,240 What what would be? Is there any way to determine or 524 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,080 distinguish the difference between how much of this is 525 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,960 happening by default when people are exposed to natural sunlight 526 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,600 and, you know, are in tune with their circadian rhythms versus 527 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,800 that of acute light therapy using a device? 528 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,240 So the, the main difference is that if you're so there is a big 529 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,000 impact. So I and I, I do this myself 530 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,920 daily, you know, especially with the kids that go outside and do 531 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,000 breathing in the sunlight, it really helps. 532 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,840 And, and there's a, a big impact for things like hormonal kind of 533 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,560 downstream adaptations and etcetera. 534 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,960 The difference with what we're doing from a, a light therapy 535 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:23,280 standpoint is that you can control this and optimize it. 536 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,280 What you get from sunlight, as an example, is a, a, a heavy 537 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,600 enough band of UVA and UVB to not be super healthy for you. 538 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,200 So you don't want to stay out in the sunshine for for hours and 539 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,120 hours every day. There's actually reasonable 540 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:39,760 amounts as you can do. And, and I think, you know, 541 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,320 those are probably even most of the ones that are advised 542 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,080 broadly are probably even relatively conservative. 543 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,400 What we find with the infrared and, and deep red targeted 544 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:58,320 pieces of this is that the, these are a protective against 545 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,520 damage from UV. So when you can, when you can 546 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,320 specifically choose the wavelengths and the power levels 547 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,400 and the duty cycle and the frequency and the amplitude. 548 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,360 Like when you choose all these characteristics and you and you 549 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,520 kind of base this on outcomes that you're, you're targeting 550 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,720 relative to the Physiology. What, what kind of adaptations 551 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,560 are we trying to trigger? Where are these photo acceptors 552 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,400 that are going to drive that? And then how do we and most 553 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,160 effectively, and this is, this is what we do from our, our 554 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,040 science side is we, we build mathematical models to most 555 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,560 effectively deliver photons through tissue to the correct 556 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,600 photo acceptors. And what that does is 557 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,080 essentially just makes your own personal kind of personalized 558 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,480 optimized sun for you. And again, that also protects 559 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,080 against damage from UVA and UVB. So those, when you're seeing UVA 560 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,840 and UBUVB, they, they can actually damage DNA and, and 561 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,880 there's a number of different kind of downstream negative 562 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,160 impacts from that, but a lot of those are mediated through 563 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,560 oxidative stress. So if you're treating with 564 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,000 photobiomodulation before or after you go out to go do your, 565 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,360 your, your son, essentially you get the, the best of both 566 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,640 worlds. So that's a a that's a bit of a 567 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,000 long answer, that long answer to A to to an honest and and 568 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,960 reasonable question. What's the I'm just kind of 569 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,640 rapid fire here. What's the difference between 570 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,120 the infrared and the deep red? Like from a wavelength 571 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,480 standpoint, Like how do those differ? 572 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,720 So essentially the, the infrared penetrates more effectively. 573 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,440 And so when we we've built our first device, the move plus the 574 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,400 two most researched wavelengths in the world relative to the 575 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,880 forest plots. So the, the short answer is red 576 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,480 is for more superficial tissue and infrared is for, for deeper 577 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,080 tissue. The longer answer is we selected 578 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,360 these two because they had the most, the most substantial body 579 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,160 of work from medical research standpoint. 580 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,600 With our next devices, there's a couple of new laser wavelengths 581 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,560 that we'll be adding in for penetration further into the 582 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,560 body. So things like the brain, female 583 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,560 reproductive tissue in the gut require additional levels of 584 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,400 modeling and and planning and design work to make sure that 585 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,640 we're delivering the correct and optimal level of of photons to 586 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,000 the photo acceptors in those areas as well. 587 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,400 And we've found that this is this there's, there's two more 588 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:24,960 wavelengths we're adding in to be able to do that. 589 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,760 And so the longer you make these wavelengths, the more that in 590 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,080 general that they penetrate. And so we're adding in for our 591 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,800 next ones, the 940 and 1064. The first device really is, is 592 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:44,480 primarily for joint tissue, soft tissue and superficial tissue. 593 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:50,000 So kind of your joints, your, your muscles and then you know, 594 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,240 skin and and wound healing type recovery and those the, the 595 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,280 shorter the wavelengths. So like our our first device 596 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,520 with the the 660 and the eight O 8, those are shorter and 597 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,440 penetrate less into the gut as an example. 598 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,160 So hopefully that gives a a bit of a framework for it. 599 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,960 And I, I believe the one I've got is the move Plus. 600 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,200 So that one's using the deep red, right? 601 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,600 That's right. It's deep red, deep red LED with 602 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,400 a primary optic and then a laser. 603 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,720 We use lasers called vertical cavity surface emission lasers 604 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,000 for the infrared. And so it's that combination of 605 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,840 of really how to how to dose as effectively at every level 606 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,080 versus kind of like most other devices are either overdosing 607 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,760 with superficial tissue or underdosing the internal tissue. 608 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,480 I got you, I got you. So let's just kind of dive into 609 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,560 some use case scenarios here. So with the move plus, you know, 610 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,960 you can strap it to any specific body part or region that is, you 611 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,520 know, ailing what what would be the workflow for stuff like 612 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:50,480 that. So for instance, I've got an 613 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,640 employee that's got like a shoulder issue right now from 614 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,440 from lifting. He would strap that to his 615 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,480 shoulder. And then what would his dosing 616 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,400 regimen look like? So on his shoulder, it's going 617 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,120 to be 15 minutes a day. You can do this 15 minutes twice 618 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,560 a day and it'll be roughly a 20% increase in the, the 619 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,200 improvements. But we found that when people 620 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,960 try to start doing it twice a day, they have a harder time 621 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,240 habit stacking it. So we, we just, it's much more 622 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,560 important to have your, you know, 15 minutes a day versus 623 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,560 the, the double version. So 15 minutes a day, find a, a 624 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,360 habit that's not going to interfere with kind of your, 625 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,680 your activities at the time. It's wearable. 626 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,760 So you can strap that on and you, you have essentially with 627 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,760 the device, you have one module in the armpit and then two more 628 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,600 that are on either side of the, the front and back and target 629 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,960 through to that, that internal synovial fluid in that capsule. 630 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,960 That, that really is where we see the, the increase in 631 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,920 inflammation present and where we see the best results when 632 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,960 people can actually treat it. So it's it's really targeting it 633 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,760 from multiple areas to get the the best coverage of that 634 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,840 synovial fluid. And how long would he go about 635 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,720 that? 15 minutes or once a day. 15 636 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,600 minutes once a day. That's right. 637 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,200 And then again, if he's got time, if you can get the second 638 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,000 one in, great. But make sure you have the first 639 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,840 one stacked with something that you do every day. 640 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,160 And I, I think I mentioned earlier, but we, we did some 641 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,520 tests with, you know, early beta users for this. 642 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,840 And many people have aspirational habits. 643 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,600 So they'll say like, Hey, let me stack this with my, my 644 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,680 meditation. It's like, OK, how many times 645 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,800 you meditate, meditated in the last two weeks once, OK, no, do 646 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,480 it with your, do it with your Netflix because that's what 647 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,280 you're doing every day. So make sure that whatever 648 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,240 you're applying it to from a habit standpoint is a pragmatic 649 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,480 historical habit that you're going to be able to to continue 650 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:39,960 on with every day. And how? 651 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,640 How long would he need to consecutively do that with 652 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,680 before seeing noticeable benefits? 653 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,480 So the inflammation will start reducing within 24 hours. 654 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,600 And so it really depends on from a pain standpoint, what type of 655 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,960 injury it is when you have reduced inflammation in the 656 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,000 area, the healing factors and the growth factors that come to 657 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,360 that area and the recovery time start cutting down. 658 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,120 So you, you get more growth factors and you start healing 659 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,639 that that wound or, or injury faster. 660 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,440 The, the degree of that depends on the degree of the, the injury 661 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,320 in the 1st place. So, you know, if it's a slap 662 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,440 tear, it's one thing, it's a complete shoulder rebuild, 663 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,320 they'll have another level from a, a recovery standpoint. 664 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,199 But the main thing is started, you know, as soon as you 665 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,639 started, started today that that inflammation level is going to 666 00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,920 come down almost immediately and you're going to see that 667 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,239 increased speed of healing and, and ideally also reduced 668 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,719 discomfort. One thing that we do try to do 669 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,560 with everyone is set a reasonable expectation relative 670 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,600 to the pain and discomfort intervention levels they can 671 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,600 expect when the pain is driven by inflammation. 672 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,920 You're going to see a night and day difference almost 673 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,960 immediately when it's not driven by, when there's a mechanistic 674 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,040 kind of underpinning, a mechanical underpinning for 675 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,920 this. And we see this a lot with hips 676 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:01,520 as well. Then it takes longer. 677 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,720 There's, there's just going to be something we, we, you know 678 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,520 that the light isn't going to fix. 679 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,280 Like if you've got bone on bone, you're not going to see that 680 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,480 fixed overnight. What you will see is that you 681 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,080 can start regrowing cartilage in areas where you've, where you've 682 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,480 been thin on cartilage because of inflammation. 683 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,480 When you remove the inflammation from that area. 684 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,760 But again, that's, that's a weeks to months scale process. 685 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,280 Cartilage is just a slower a slower tissue to grow. 686 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,200 For me, for instance, I don't have any specific acute 687 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,560 injuries. How would I like if you weren't 688 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,640 in my shoes? How would you proactively work 689 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,080 it into my daily routine? What would I benefit most from 690 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,480 and just stacking it into my daily daily habits? 691 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,800 It's a great question. Personally, treat your lower gut 692 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,440 and treat your neck. That's that proximal priority 693 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,440 therapy almost just makes you superhuman from a, a, an immune 694 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,120 response standpoint and you just feel great from it. 695 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,160 We also find that there's a really, and, and we're doing 696 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,160 some, we have been doing some, there's, there's been a bit of 697 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,280 a, a shift in the environment around grants these days, but 698 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,600 we, we've been putting in Alzheimer's and dementia grants 699 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,920 with the NIH because we're seeing really powerful impacts 700 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,400 when you can reduce, when you can increase kind of blood 701 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,680 delivery, when you can decrease inflammation, when you can 702 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,000 decrease oxidative stress in the brain. 703 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:29,200 The risk and the outcomes that you see for neurological disease 704 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,680 are really powerfully impacted. And we're seeing that not just 705 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,160 with the disease, but also with neurological behavioral 706 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,680 pathologies. And so that's depression, 707 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:44,520 anxiety, ADHD, even fibromyalgia, where we, we're 708 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,400 seeing really powerful studies starting into this. 709 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,880 It's still early days. The studies are still, they're 710 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,960 human, but they're, they're still on the small side of 711 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,880 things. But we're anticipating that this 712 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,920 is going to be a really powerful treatment long term to be able 713 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,880 to help people avoid things like, you know, avoid or push 714 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,440 back the outcomes of cognitive decline around Alzheimer's, 715 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,160 Alzheimer's and and a number of different types of dementia as 716 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,640 well. So in in that case, just simply 717 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,400 wearing the device on a daily basis, that compounded over a 718 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,000 lifetime, that's where the benefits going to come. 719 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:20,520 That's right, that's right. And we're you know, you hear 720 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,760 this, you hear this 1% better every day. 721 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,800 And this is really like the two powerful ways you can do that. 722 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,720 One is that that blood and lower gut treatment. 723 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,680 And two is the brain. Your your brain is just such a 724 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,760 high leverage point of your experience as a human that 725 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,000 making that investment and commitment into yourself to have 726 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,920 healthier brain tissue longer term, The sooner you can start 727 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,200 that the better. And that'll be with the the next 728 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,600 device that is penetrating deeper that you would wear I'm 729 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,920 assuming on your on your skull. You you can use the current 730 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,320 device, the eight O 8. The the 660 doesn't really 731 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,440 penetrate through to this, the eight O 8 does and it and it 732 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,040 actually has a very, very meaningful and substantial 733 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,920 impact. The next device will be optimal. 734 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,520 So that's kind of the trajectory was has you know what we're OK 735 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,920 right now we want to have something where we're really 736 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,400 providing optimal outcomes and optimal dosing at all levels of 737 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,840 tissue. And that's our our next product 738 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,640 will be be releasing in in for the gut and for the brain in in 739 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,080 May. Nice, nice. 740 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,120 So for me, if I just make it a habit of wearing the device on 741 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,760 my neck for 15 minutes and lower abdomen region 15 minutes every 742 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,640 day, I'm I'm putting the stack of chips in my favorite right? 743 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,840 100% I I so I, I think I started on this earlier, but I've got 744 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,440 two kids, 5 and 9, two boys and they drag in all kind of colds 745 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,080 from school all the time. And I haven't been sick in 746 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,320 months, like maybe a year now. Like I just and I didn't notice 747 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,800 this until halfway through. And again, it's, it's in of 1 748 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,120 grain of salt it, but it's, it's just an exciting thing to see as 749 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,640 a, you know, as a technologist that we're, we're actually able 750 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,000 to make these type of differences. 751 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,120 But I think that what you would see earlier out of that is you'd 752 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,120 just feel really good on a daily basis. 753 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,720 You, you produce more serotonin and dopamine in your gut than 754 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,320 you do in your brain. And there's a big impact on that 755 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,320 from treating with lasers. So again, the, the current 756 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,400 device makes a difference and you can feel it within about two 757 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,840 weeks. Like it, it, it takes a little 758 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,080 while for that to ramp up. And, and again with a lot of 759 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,000 these, one of the things been so exciting about this from a 760 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,080 research standpoint is in many cases like like this one, the 761 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,120 gut is so multivariate that we know the dosing and we know the 762 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,160 outcomes. People get sick less they their 763 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,160 affect is better, all of this. But in many cases we're still 764 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,000 kind of working to delineate or parse what's happening and 765 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,560 understand better on on between the ABC and the XYZ. 766 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:39,680 What like what, what is this jumble of letters in between 767 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,200 that's actually mediating this effect? 768 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,760 And so we'll be able to even dial it in further over the 769 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,160 coming years as we as we get more, more back from our 770 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,520 research partners on this. Yeah, no, it's exciting stuff. 771 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,800 And there's, there's not really any, you know, adverse effects 772 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,160 or outcomes that come from it, right. 773 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,880 Because I mean with, with the infrared, the deep red, like 774 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,560 there's no overdose, so to speak. 775 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,120 No, the overdose is just, you go back to 0. 776 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,720 Like you just don't like, if you ever overdose, you can leave it 777 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:06,600 on for two hours, but you're going to go back to like the, 778 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,640 the baseline there. There's no, there's no negative 779 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,920 impact for this. This is, it's one of the reasons 780 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,120 why we also, we, we actually had a decision at the beginning of 781 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,760 the, the design process for using Class 2 or Class 1 lasers. 782 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,640 And we went and did testing on both of those. 783 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,400 And not only do we find better outcomes from a safety and risk 784 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,920 standpoint, obviously the, the lower power LED and lower power 785 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,880 lasers are going to be less dangerous and, and lower risk. 786 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,560 We also found better outcomes. And so it's really nice to be 787 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,480 able to see that in, in kind of on a daily basis. 788 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,360 Again, this is, you know, having having gone through, I think 789 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,240 3435 cycles of, you know, we have, we have, we've built 790 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:48,080 really complex mathematical models as to how these photons 791 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,200 distribute through tissue and we base our designs on that. 792 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,520 And then we go back and test this in reality and say, all 793 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,120 right, here's what model says, here's what we're seeing. 794 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,360 How do we close that gap? And after I again, I think it's 795 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,960 30 or 453435 cycles of that, we're closer on, on that than 796 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,960 anyone in the world. So the dosing is as good as it 797 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:12,600 gets and we will have, we will introduce sensors into this 798 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,120 eventually. That's something we'll be doing 799 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,200 next year because again, we want to be able to demonstrate to 800 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,960 people what objective changes we're making in their 801 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,680 Physiology. And there's some really cool 802 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,640 technology coming down the, down the pipe on this one. 803 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,880 But yeah, that's, that's maybe a teaser for the, for the next 804 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,280 chat because it's, it's still early days and we're, we're 805 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,760 still kind of working on how to roll that out relative to the, 806 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,000 the, the, the real time changes in dosing that we can make from 807 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,760 a therapeutic standpoint. Totally. 808 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,360 I've seen a lot of people in the biohacking space that are using 809 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,760 these red lights to hopefully improve hormonal health and 810 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,120 function testosterone production. 811 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,840 Are there is there any truth to them? 812 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,400 I mean these people putting red lights on their their gonads or 813 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,440 testicles token to increase natural testosterone levels, is 814 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,880 that effective? It is I think one of the things 815 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,600 that we see there is that you see you see small but real 816 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,040 uptick in in testosterone. What's also interesting for it 817 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,120 though, is from a sexual dysfunction standpoint, nitric 818 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,000 oxide is a really powerful molecule in the body for that. 819 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:16,400 And you see much better kind of outcomes relative to sexual 820 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,880 impact, kind of from a sexual dysfunction standpoint relative 821 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,680 to, to testosterone. So I think it's testosterone 822 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,960 protocols. We haven't personally gone in to 823 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,320 test for them yet, but we, we do kind of keep a track of the 824 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,360 literature in that and it does, it does move the needle. 825 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,920 It's just not as substantial as it is from a a, you know, sexual 826 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,160 like that, that range of impact on the sexual impairment to 827 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,120 sexual function spectrum is really more powerful than the 828 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,600 the testosterone side. Got you. 829 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,960 I should say 11 follow up for this is that we also, and I 830 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,480 didn't know this our, our, you know, obviously I'm male. 831 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,920 Our, our research team skews male, our engineering team skews 832 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,040 male. And I, I think this is not an 833 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:02,200 uncommon thing. We didn't know much about this 834 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:07,200 from a, a, a hormone standpoint coming into this space, but with 835 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,240 our users asking a lot of questions and wanting to know 836 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:14,440 more about this, we found that female hypothyroidism around 837 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,360 paramenopause and menopause is really, really common. 838 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,000 And one of the things that we can do is when you pair 839 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:27,800 photobiomodulation with vitamin D3 and selenium, there's a 840 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,920 synergistic outcome for impacting hypothyroidism. 841 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,200 And so there's great my, my business partner, one of the 842 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,240 reasons we actually started digging into it as well as my 843 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:37,680 business partner has Hashimoto's. 844 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,360 And it's a very kind of similar thing to the this kind of 845 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:47,160 paramenopausal hypothyroid shift from a hormone standpoint. 846 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,040 And we're seeing really powerful impacts for, for treating that. 847 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,680 And so both, both from our users, but also from the the 848 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,360 medical literature in the space. Interesting. 849 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,360 Yeah, Now it makes total sense. And from like a a nitric oxide 850 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,760 standpoint that piques my interest because that's what I'm 851 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,240 trying to optimize for when I'm training for bodybuilding 852 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,520 purposes. Is there is there like a 853 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,280 specific time? Like obviously doing it 854 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,960 consistently and eventually is the most important thing, but if 855 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,920 I'm trying to optimize from performance standpoint, is there 856 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,600 an ideal time to where the device pre workout, post 857 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,480 workout? Does that matter at all? 858 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,480 So there's different outcomes for that at least from a 859 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,960 research standpoint if you're using it pre workout, what we 860 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,080 see is a an increase in aerobic capacity. 861 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:40,800 So, and this is typically around cyclical modalities from a, a 862 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,640 training standpoint like rowing, cycling, things like this that 863 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,760 people just are able to go further and faster from a 864 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,480 anaerobic exercise modality post workout. 865 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,600 What we find is if you're doing very high intensity workouts, 866 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,960 the what you, what you triggers a lot of muscle damage and 867 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,160 there's muscle inflammatory markers where you know creating 868 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,200 kinase and C reactive proteins are, are two good examples. 869 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,000 These don't add anything to, to your strength gains to your 870 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,600 hypertrophy. They slow you down from coming 871 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,240 back from intense workouts to do another intense workout. 872 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:21,320 And so it slows down your progress essentially. 873 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,640 And those respectively we reduced by 60% and 80% in a 24 874 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,520 hour period. So really powerful impacts on 875 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,680 muscle inflammatory markers. And I would, I would in that 876 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,240 sitting, I would just put around my neck, right? 877 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:38,440 Like just simply optimizing blood flow through my neck. 878 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,480 For, for the aerobic piece, yes, or you can also do your larger 879 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,720 muscle groups. And so for me, if I like when I, 880 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,880 so I'm still training CrossFit and there's occasionally really 881 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,800 heavy days for, you know, for me it's, it's the what I've seen 882 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,480 the best result for kind of the delayed onset muscle soreness 883 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,120 and, and muscle recovery is I know I'm going to be sore when 884 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,520 it's a middle weight, but it's heavy volume. 885 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,680 So if I'm doing, you know, 200 front rack lunges, but not at a 886 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,880 heavyweight, but just 200 of them, I am going to be sore 887 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,400 tomorrow. And I know that. 888 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,520 And so I'll, I'll bring the device with me if I see that on 889 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,240 the programming where it's, it's kind of a high volume really 890 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:18,600 kind of, yeah. Like muscle endurance slash 891 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,240 hypertrophy, trite type training. 892 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,880 High volume legs is the worst man I get so much more. 893 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,000 It's so systemically impactful. You just like your central 894 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,080 nervous system, just mine at least just freaks out and it's 895 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,040 like, oh man, don't, don't do that again. 896 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,440 But yeah, if you treat the specific muscles for that, so 897 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,000 treat the, the leg muscles on that. 898 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,080 So, yeah. And I did it just yesterday too. 899 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,680 Oh my goodness. I, I forgot my device though at 900 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:42,920 the house. My, my wife was sick. 901 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,800 So she was using it for kind of the immune impacts. 902 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,440 And yeah, I didn't. I looked in my bag after 903 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:54,120 training yesterday and I was. Like oh man, what about your 904 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,960 kids? You said 5 and 9 wasn't. 905 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,920 That's right, yes. Do you have them wear it for any 906 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,720 purposes? I, I do when they, when I can 907 00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:04,600 get it on them, we, we do kind of little like documentary 908 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,360 learning things in the evening. And so I try to do that every 909 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,080 day with them for immunity. Now that we've kind of immune 910 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,880 health, now that we've noticed this, this really big 911 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,680 difference, it's harder because there's just so many moving 912 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,680 parts and, and like they're harder to track down and get 913 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,200 onto a pattern, but they also, if they fall down and scrape 914 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,360 their leg or something like this, the wound healing. 915 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,080 And there's a ton of literature on this. 916 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,600 This is one of the first things that was researched around it, 917 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,240 particularly back in the 80s when when NASA was starting to 918 00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,400 research photobiomodulation. Astronauts don't heal very 919 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,280 effectively. So you could get a scratch and 920 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,560 then like months later still have that. 921 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,800 If you're in space, you just don't your, your recovery and, 922 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,320 and wound healing just slows down. 923 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,320 And there's a number of factors for it. 924 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,080 And they're still kind of working on, on those. 925 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,080 But one of the things that they have found is that 926 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,920 photobiomodulation fixes that. And so the kids like that as 927 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,640 well that it's kind of like their Wolverine thing if they 928 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,760 fall down and scrape their knees or something like this and 929 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,640 they're good like like not not quite overnight, but almost for, 930 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,240 for the scratches when they can put this on there. 931 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,960 Interesting, I guess astronauts probably aren't doing a whole 932 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,640 lot of high volume legs either then. 933 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,200 It's so bad for you though. They're they're, you know, space 934 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,760 brain is the kind of informal term for it. 935 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:21,000 But you're seeing like if you took like TBI, kind of like NFL 936 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:26,720 or, or something like this type TBI, boxing, MMA and then 937 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:30,080 combined it with Alzheimer's. It's like a combination of the 938 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,280 worst kind of symptoms of both of those. 939 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,440 And it's really nasty. People come back with really, 940 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,240 really heavy impacts from it. And, and it's, it's really nice 941 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,400 to be able to be researching this because we, we have started 942 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,040 working with some, some different astronauts in the 943 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,840 space. And, and, you know, we same 944 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,120 thing with the NFL and, and, you know, MMA, we're working with 945 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,680 the UFC guys and, and just want to make it make an impact, make 946 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,000 a positive impact where we can. Yeah. 947 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,480 I don't know 100% man, that's that's very admirable. 948 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,080 What what's your long term picture with the business? 949 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,160 Do you feel like you'll stick with this one and build into 950 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,120 this legacy brand that you just, you know, pass on to your kids 951 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:03,680 at some point or what? Where do you think things are 952 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,120 going to go when you look into the future? 953 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,680 That's my hope. I, I think you know, as long as 954 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,160 we're making a difference for people, you know, we didn't 955 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,960 build this business to exit. We, we built it to, to be 956 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,600 impactful. And as long as we're getting 957 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,920 better at that and we are our, our devices are getting better. 958 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,400 Our, our interactions with the users are getting better, our 959 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,360 systems on how we kind of check those things and, and put a 960 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,040 feedback loop in place. All of that's getting so much 961 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,760 more impactful. And it's, it's just, it gives 962 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,960 you more like, it gives me more optimism for the future. 963 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,000 And I, I tend to lean on the optimistic side of things in 964 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,760 general. I think you have to as a, as an 965 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,480 entrepreneur, but yeah, for me, this is a, this is, this is a 966 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,360 lifelong 1 where we can, we can keep getting better and better 967 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,520 at delivering health outcomes and, and better, better 968 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,360 lifestyles for people. The, the, you know, the 969 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,880 testimonials that we get in from our older users on a daily basis 970 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,520 of, you know, my wife couldn't sleep for 10 years because of 971 00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,520 sleep all the way through the night from, you know, from 972 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,720 chronic pain. Now she's sleeping through the 973 00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:03,400 night. She couldn't walk up the stairs. 974 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,200 She was having to use these little scooters at the grocery 975 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,000 store. That's, that's why we're here, 976 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,680 you know, and we're, we're achieving it. 977 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,440 So it's, you know, as long as we're achieving that, I'm, I'm 978 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,480 going to be here doing it. That's awesome, ma'am. 979 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,680 When you when you look back at your prior business ventures and 980 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,720 you mentioned earlier that you had reached a capacity with each 981 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:21,040 of them due to your own limitations and then you exited. 982 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,120 What have you learned as a businessman now to this point 983 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,960 that you feel confident will keep you from hitting that 984 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,960 threshold, that limiting factor with this business? 985 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,200 Or if that's not the case, like how are you going to set 986 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,600 yourself up for success so that doesn't happen this go round? 987 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,880 I think you have to approach it from a lifelong learning 988 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,280 standpoint. The, the, again, the hubris of 989 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:49,000 youth is not just ignorance, it's also it's ignorance and 990 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,520 the, the ignorance of the ignorance. 991 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,960 So you don't know how ignorant you are when you're young and 992 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,800 when you, when you find out how ignorant you are through a few 993 00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,280 different cycles of these type of things, you know that 994 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,840 there's, regardless of how well things go from an outcome 995 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,080 standpoint, there's something that you're missing. 996 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:07,680 There's something that you could be doing better. 997 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,920 And it's the, it's the ignorance of ignorance that we should be 998 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,600 targeting to eradicate. And you can't. 999 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,000 Like no one is no one's omniscient. 1000 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,120 But if you open yourself up to broader networks of people who 1001 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,080 you respect and give them and, and lose the ego enough to give 1002 00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,480 them an opportunity to come in and, and talk to you about 1003 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,280 things like that. We, we as a business, this was 1004 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,480 one of the reasons why we, we kind of refer to ourselves as a 1005 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,200 non ego shop. Like it doesn't matter whose 1006 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,280 idea it is. Like the janitor can challenge 1007 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,320 our, our, you know, atomic physicist PHDCTO on things, if 1008 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,160 he feels it is not going right. And we just, you have to leave 1009 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,960 the ego out and, and be able to take on other people's input for 1010 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,440 it, because you're, you're never going to have that full 100° 1011 00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,520 perspective. And and, you know, just leave 1012 00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:00,600 open some level of respect for your, your, your colleagues and, 1013 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,520 and, you know, people external to you to be able to, to raise 1014 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,480 things that can be unknown unknowns, if that makes sense. 1015 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,160 Yeah 100% man, ego is the enemy for sure. 1016 00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,720 Yes, yes, and it's, but again, when you're young, it's, it's 1017 00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:16,400 hard to, to know that without having seen a couple of cycles. 1018 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,240 And, and you know, once you do see the cycles, you know, 1019 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,200 regardless of, of how talented whoever is and whatever they're 1020 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,680 doing, world class people at everything, everyone's got gaps. 1021 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,080 And so trying to, you know, trying to close those and, and 1022 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,000 be honest with yourself and leaving the ego at the door 1023 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,040 hopefully will help, you know, we don't know, but hopefully 1024 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,120 will help improve outcomes and, and continue to let let us grow 1025 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,560 and learn and expand as people. Totally, man. 1026 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,320 I got one final question for you, brother. 1027 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,880 How do you how do you structure your day? 1028 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,960 Like I'm always curious, talk to other businessmen, other 1029 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,880 entrepreneurs, other athletes to see how they, how they allocate 1030 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,920 their time because we all have the same amount of time. 1031 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,000 How you prioritize it is going to be what you're defining 1032 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,720 factor is how you have it stack, how you build these routines 1033 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:03,400 into place. Like how do you structure your 1034 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,200 day to be the most productive version of yourself? 1035 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,200 For me, the mornings of the the productive time I I I'm about 1036 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:12,560 5:00. I've, I've typically got 1037 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:18,480 training at about 6 ice barrel, some kind of coffee and, and I, 1038 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,440 I, I'm supposed to be my, my nutritionist has said, hey, get 1039 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,520 back on the like non fasting piece, but I really like not 1040 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,400 eating in the morning. I feel more alert and awake. 1041 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,800 And so I, I kind of skid by that and put a little bit and then go 1042 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:38,200 straight into probably 6 hours of, of deep work, typically from 1043 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,440 calls and things like this. But most of the deep work 1044 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,600 structured around pomodoros, which I found really useful. 1045 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,960 There's a number of different tools that I kind of stack in a, 1046 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,600 I've, I've kind of lifelong ADHD. 1047 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,520 So there's a, you know, there's different apps and, and like 1048 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,560 Endo is great from a sound standpoint. 1049 00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:01,200 Pomodoros are great for my, a managing to a, a set time frame. 1050 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,080 We use a number of different tools for kind of external brain 1051 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,240 like Notion that that really helped me kind of manage 1052 00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:13,640 different things that are, are gaps or or weak points for me 1053 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,880 from a, a processing and focus standpoint. 1054 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,360 And then I would say at some point you have to get in a yoga 1055 00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,280 nidra to, to kind of reset in the afternoon. 1056 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,480 There's something really powerful about being able to not 1057 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,520 necessarily have a nap, but being able to reset your brain 1058 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,000 and almost a nap style like re energizing and yeah, then 1059 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,120 afternoon training of some sort, typically lifting in the 1060 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:39,720 afternoon and more work through to I, I like cooking. 1061 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:42,960 So I, I cook and, and I cook Sundays and then during the week 1062 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,200 for dinner while my wife does kind of breakfast and and lunch 1063 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,920 for the kids. So I think it's that's hopefully 1064 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,040 a, you know, a reasonable, a reasonable framework. 1065 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,360 Yeah. How do you disconnect when you 1066 00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,080 get home? Spend time with the kids. 1067 00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,160 That's a great question. Typically I try to find 1068 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,960 something that they like and get into it with them and I just 1069 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,280 like learning stuff and they've always got something new on 1070 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,000 their mind. And so they want to sit and talk 1071 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,080 or do something new. The little one, I played 1072 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:13,840 quarterback and the little one wants to play quarterback. 1073 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:15,120 So that's a, it's a great alignment. 1074 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,240 He wants to go learn how to throw and do things like this. 1075 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,240 But finding kind of bridges or, or overlaps relative to what 1076 00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:23,880 their interests are with what my experience and, and where I can 1077 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,520 add value for them has been, I think kind of how I've 1078 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,880 approached it. It's, it's I also I, I should 1079 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,520 have mentioned maybe earlier, I, my phone is off for any incoming 1080 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:35,760 calls. I haven't had, I haven't 1081 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,800 received an incoming call in years. 1082 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:44,280 I, yeah, I, I, it's always on kind of focus mode. 1083 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,280 So I don't like, I, I answer messages a bunch in my, in my 1084 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,560 Pomodoro sprints. But then if it's not during that 1085 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,680 time, it's I'm, I'm really not like kind of on, I'm not on 1086 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,680 social media. So again, a lot of those things 1087 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,560 are just triggers for me for, for focus related issues that 1088 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,280 are kind of tough around ADHD. And so I've just had to kind of 1089 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,160 modulate as as it works as you can do around that, if that 1090 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,120 makes sense. No, tell them, man, I love it. 1091 00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:13,680 I love it. I got a son, another son on the 1092 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,040 way too. So like I'm trying to 1093 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,640 congratulations, my disconnect time when I get off work for the 1094 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,560 day and it's it's challenging, but it it makes you realize 1095 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:22,800 what's important in life for sure. 1096 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,040 A. 100% yeah. And, and we also with the kids, 1097 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,280 we do the, so our first training in the morning is with the kids. 1098 00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,480 We have them on a, a Tabata protocol. 1099 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,200 You can't when you're young really out on a bunch of muscle, 1100 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:35,600 like they don't have any hormones for that. 1101 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:41,560 But with kind of the neurological and balance and 1102 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,400 kind of explosiveness and things like this, they're getting 1103 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,720 great. And so that's, that's really 1104 00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:48,320 been working well. And, and we're going to kind of 1105 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,320 keep steering into that. They also like, and, and 1106 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,080 probably 3 or 4 * a week we do, you might find the same thing. 1107 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,440 They like anything that we kind of get into and get excited 1108 00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,040 about. So, you know, sauna and ice 1109 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,120 barrel, They, they, they jump into and they're like, who can 1110 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:03,520 stay in the longest and this type of thing. 1111 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,880 So I got two boys. They're, they're just, you know, 1112 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,840 naturally competitive. Like if you put like anything on 1113 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,680 the table, they're, they're like, they're going to compete 1114 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,640 about it. Like, Oh well, my hat is taller 1115 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,960 or like anything they can compete about that. 1116 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,080 It's going to be competition. Yeah. 1117 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,680 I love it man, I love it. Well, awesome for us. 1118 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:20,760 I really appreciate the time man. 1119 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,520 I'm glad you kind of shed some light on biomodulation lights, 1120 00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,320 that makes sense. Super excited about the device I 1121 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,480 got when we start playing around with him and let my my workout 1122 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,320 partner use it for his shoulder and see if that makes a 1123 00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,400 difference for him. Where do people go to find out 1124 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,920 more and dig deeper, brother? Come check us out at kineon dot 1125 00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:44,400 IO, KINEON dot IO or we're also on social media as Kineon KINEON 1126 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,840 under score labs, because we kind of feel like we're, we are 1127 00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:49,360 a lab. We're in the real world testing 1128 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,040 and, and trying to trying to use technology to improve people's 1129 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:53,200 lives. And that's, that's kind of just 1130 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,400 a real world lab. So that's where you can find us. 1131 00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:58,960 Yeah, I, I really appreciate the time today. 1132 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,440 This was a great, great discussion. 1133 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,800 Thank you so much for for the awesome questions and and 1134 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,720 awesome interaction. Hey, my pleasure man. 1135 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:05,840 We'll keep the conversation going. 1136 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:07,560 All right. See you, brother. 1137 00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:08,280 All right.