What's going on? Ladies and gents Roberts?
Thanks. Kiddo Savage.com.
And today, I've got special guest to Kelsey boulter on the
line, and she has an inspirational story that you're
going to want to listen to. She has struggled with anorexia
for a good portion of her life. She has gone through Clinic.
She has gone through all kinds of work deep work in internal
work to figure out what this, what caused this, how to resolve
this and how to make progress going for them.
And this, this particular interview it Did a lot with me
because I've had several clients that have struggled with this as
of late and having the opportunity to talk with her and
just dive deeper and learn more and understand what's going on
for her personally. But then also, what could be
going on for others that are that are dealing with these
disordered eating Tendencies is something that I want to learn
more about something that I've struggled with in some form of
fashion, my own life. It's something that I know many
people do. So, really hearing her story
hearing her story. Her be open, and authentic, and
vulnerable was incredibly insightful and Incredibly
inspirational. So I have no doubt.
You will take something from this conversation.
So that further Ado, sit back, relax and enjoy the podcast with
Kelsey. We are live.
Kelsey. How are you?
I'm good. How are you?
I'm doing wonderfully well, as well.
You are from South Africa. Is that correct?
I am from Cape Town. South Africa, Cape Town, South
Africa. I've got a few friends that have
that live in South Africa. They're from South Africa.
One of my buddies is a, he does, like a safari his family's been
in the Safari business. Like they do, the guided hunts
there, and they're in South Africa by don't know
whereabouts, but South Africa is beautiful from everything.
I've heard it is. Have you ever been I've never
been however, My folks are they just got a big sailboat?
They're going to sail around the world and they're going to say
oh quite a bit around South Africa.
So I'm going to meet up with them at various ports along the
way. So I'm going to spend some time
inside of my gosh. So your Aunt Crystal and the new
baby, you should try and come to Cape Town.
It's so beautiful and it's like super nice for your, for the
exchange rate for the dollar. Yeah.
No, I definitely want to and
everybody there. I mean, English is the primary
language that, right? Yeah.
I mean, we do. Also, there's also easy, causa,
and Zulu and Afrikaans as well, but predominantly everyone,
everyone speaks English. Well, if I can nice nice, so I
shouldn't be able to kind of find my way around in an IV
total. Total, you know, Darkness for me
there which be good. 100% And I am the greatest tour guide.
So, you know, just reach out. Yeah.
Well, I'll take you up on that
for sure. So I want to dive into your,
your past, your upbringing a little bit with regard to what
got you into the health and nutrition space.
Because you're super passionate about it.
You've got a very inspirational story and I feel like anybody
that's gone through hell for lack of a better word and really
figured out what it is that they do.
Don't want to do, they become so much more passionate about what
it is. They do want to do because it's
had such a profound impact on their lives and I feel like that
is pretty much what's happened to you.
Yeah, I mean, I couldn't have said it better myself.
So I suppose I'll begin. I suppose, I was a kid as a kid.
I was always just an extremely, anxious and shy and insecure
girl. And, you know, I was diagnosed
with generalized, anxiety disorder and I had major
separation anxiety from my parents.
And in that regard, school was quite difficult, just
emotionally for me. Not that I didn't have friends
and I didn't do well in school, but just I Is was I was just
personally, just very insecure. And my perception of the world
was one of like fear and lack. And yeah, anyway, fast forward
to when I finished school, I matriculated in 2014 and by that
time, I mean understandably. I had already developed very
much. Yeah.
I was just the perfect breeding down.
Breeding ground for an eating disorder to manifest.
Just given my Insecurity and anxiety as a kid by grade 10,
actually, I had already developed bulimia and it was
very much in the in the dark. I didn't really speak out much
about it. I mean my whole life also as a
girl growing up, very susceptible to comparing myself
to others and I always just had glorified being thin thinking
that then, you know, would be the answer and if I was just
thinner, then I'd be happier. So yeah.
Anyway, so I Finished school in 2014, and that's when for
learner else to say, but like that's when shit, hit the fan
because I suppose everything was sort of contained kind of in
school, just because there was like a set structure in place
and everyone is doing the same thing.
And anyway, the minute I left school things just sort of fell
apart I suppose. So in hindsight actually was
planning on taking a gap year because during school.
I was always singing and writing music and playing the piano.
A non-performing whenever I could.
So I really was hoping to like take a gap year and just pursue
my music but I didn't. I found myself just succumbing
to the stigma that you need to get a degree.
So I forced myself to go study at University and I couldn't
even really last a semester by the end of the first semester.
I had dug myself into a pretty deep hole emotionally.
And at the time, I was taking antidepressants and the
psychiatrist that I was seeing at the time.
I wanted to change over my medication.
So she put me into the clinic and I mean, we can speak about
medication, but I had horrific side effects and I straight off
the bat admission actually into the clinic.
I wean myself off, completely cold, turkey with
antidepressants. And that's not a fun experience.
But anyway, I left the clinic and I still was very unsure of
what I wanted to do. Very last, very broken.
And so, I took the rest of that year.
My first year out of school. I took that rest of the year as
a leave of absence from University and I found a
photography course just to get me by and just to somehow find
something creative because I suppose I've always just been a
creative salt and then 2016 came and I was definitely not ready
to go back to University. So I decided to take that as my
quote, unquote Gap here. However, I wasn't able to pursue
my music just because emotionally I was in such a bad
space and I didn't even really Want to sing or play music and
that was like, kind of a big red flag for me.
Just given that music has always played such a huge part of my
life. So, anyway, I found a yoga
instructors course, and I did that, and it was phenomenal,
very, very synchronistic. It started like the journey and
planting the seed of, you know, sort of Consciousness and
self-awareness and everything which was would play a huge role
in my future life. So, I did that.
And then, Then the end of 2016 was approaching and I was like,
okay, well for 2017. I have to study something.
I have to get a degree. So I thought to kill, what am I
going to do? And then I thought psychology
would be a lot more congruent to who I was as a person also,
because as a kid, I had gone to every specialist Under the Sun
like psychiatrist after psychiatrist after psychologists
often urologist. Because also as a kid, I also
had major headaches which in hindsight, we're just tension
headaches from Stress and Anxiety, so I thought given I
was always just in therapy. I thought maybe study psychology
and I started studying that in 2017.
However, I just feel more and more sick with anorexia to the
point where it was, like, severely critical and I had to
be hospitalized and I went into my first at a specialized clinic
for eating disorders in 2017. Very soon after I'd started
studying psychology and that Is a very very traumatic experience
it. I like left their even more
traumatized than when I went in and sure enough.
I relapsed very soon after that and I found myself.
In fact, my parents didn't really know what to do with me.
So they set up a psychiatric like we thought we were gonna
just go to the hospital for a psychiatric assessment.
So we went there and they actually admitted me then and
there on the day. Already.
And that was also quite hurt like traumatizing because I
literally, I had nothing on me. They literally took me away from
my parents and I was pretty much owned by the government fast
forward. I was there for seven months and
I week after week. I never knew if I was going to
be discharged or not. I had absolutely no idea.
I was literally just stuck on, like one of the top floors of
the hospital building for seven months and yeah, where you at?
Sorry, how old were you at? This point?
I was at Sea. I was 21 22.
Mmm. Yeah, I think, by that time, I
was 22. So then after seven months, they
did discharge me, but they just charge me because it was nearing
the end of the year and they needed a bed.
And they also said that I was at a quote-unquote stable enough
BMI to be able to If the hospital but they did for my
parents that I was going to relapse very soon and they
definitely were right. Because literally not even,
three months later. I was in my last and final
hospitalization for anorexia. I had relapsed quite bad.
And yeah, I, that was 2018 that the beginning of 2018 and then
eventually in 2018, like middle, end of 2018.
I was at a weight that way I was able to All to start exercising
again. And I thought that I would try
and find an adult dance class because, you know, as a creative
soul. I just thought you know as a kid
dancing, always used to make me happy.
So I was just Honestly by this point trying to grasp onto any
but of life and hope and something that could just hold
me through the next day. So yeah, very, very long story
short. I reach out to a friend who had
studied musical theater, and I asked him if he knew of anyone
in Cape Town, and he gave me the number.
That would then be my director of my college that I just
graduated from. Anyway, I asked him if he knew
of anyone who could teach adults dance classes in Cape Town and
he gave me a number. And then he said to me or by the
way, we're opening up a new musical theater Academy.
The following year. So he was referring to 2019.
And he said, would you be interested in auditioning?
Now? I had been out of it for many
years, just emotionally and physically.
Just given my stage, but I somehow found myself saying,
yes, sir. So, I remember it.
So vividly he that was a Tuesday that I messaged him.
And then he said, cool. Give me your email address
auditions. Are this Saturday this weekend?
And yeah, he says, we'll see you then.
So, I was like, oh my goodness. What am I going to do?
But if I can say that like waking up Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday, and in those days, she wasn't Saturday every morning of
waking up was just like, I woke up with the sense of purpose and
it was like, I felt a Like it was just incredible and it was,
yeah, it was clearly. Yeah, it was.
It was incredible. And I did the audition and I was
so proud of myself and I was just so grateful, that my monkey
mind was just distracted for a few days because, you know, up
until then, I don't even know everything was just.
So I was just so lost and just broken pretty much.
So I was just so grateful for the opportunity to be distracted
and to be doing something, and it was clearly, you know, very
much connected. To my fantasy and who I was as a
person, so I was really happy for the first time in, I don't
know. Probably pretty much my whole
life. So anyway, I didn't expect to
get accepted because they were amazingly talented people all
around me, but there was also quite an extensive interview for
the audition and yeah, just first, you know, then getting to
know who I who I am and my story and I landed up getting
accepted. And I started studying there in
2019 and I was part of their first intake and literally,
Every day since then has been a significant day in my recovery,
which brings me to health and wellness.
Because concurrently with that, you know, the sense of purpose
and, you know, purposes of pillar of Health, which I'm sure
we will get into concurrently with that in the midst of my
time like anorexia after the in 2018 after the last Clinic
admission. I went to a life coach and he
I'm sorry, a nutritionist. Hmm, and she, she like She said,
Kelsey for the next 10 days. You're only to eat red meat and
olive oil. So pretty much she was
describing carnivore. So, I was very familiar, you
know, just being very health conscious in my, like, in high
school and stuff. I was very familiar of Tim
noakes is Banting diet. So I was very familiar with keto
and low carb. And for some weird reason, when
she was describing carnivore to me or like zero carb or just
speaking about meat and fat, I was there was something my body
that was like well, of course, this makes so much sense.
And like if I think back as a kid like meat and fat, where the
foods that I craved as a kid, like I would be going to
everyone's plate. And in fact, they would call my
plate, the graveyard plate, because I used to just eat
everyone's chicken bones and skins and everything that they
left on the side. And anyway, I started the
carnivore diet. I mean, I had pretty much been
whenever I was able to be in control of my food choices.
IE, when I was not in a clinic. I was very much a proponent of
low-carb. Ugh, however, I at the time,
also, given my the anorexia. I was very fearful of fat
calories. So I was pretty much just eating
very much lean protein, and some green veg, but obviously feeling
very miserable because we need fat anyway, so I swear when my,
when that nutritionists described Carnival and she told
me what I was going to do, there was this huge light bulb that
just lit up in my head and I was just like, oh my gosh, it was
almost like the floodgates came came down and I was just like
excited. Cited for the first time to go
and eat and I was like actually wanted to eat and so that was
also like impetus concurrently with you know, starting studying
musical theater, you know, those two pillars of Health, you know,
having the purpose and then also, you know getting your
nutrition dialed in was just like such a perfect recipe for
my true recovery and my true healing.
And yeah, we can go into many more.
We can go for a deep dive into all of that, but that's pretty
much. Yeah, quite.
Yeah. Yeah, isn't this a lot of one
dive deeper into for sure? As far as the very beginning is
concerned. Like do you feel like your your
inner exia was basically how your insecurities were manifest?
That was probably just like the vehicle for how those
insecurities manifested, right? Yes, 100% for me.
It was it manifested in the inner ex-cia and in your food
and body anything related to how my body was?
In the world. Why do you think you were so
nice? Why do you think you were
struggling with the insecurities in the first place?
Like before before? Anorexia even was the
manifestation of that? What do you think led to you
having these insecurities? Because that some time with your
upbringing or just like something environmentally, like
how, what was the Catalyst for that to be honest?
I don't even know myself because I my parents are the most
magnanimously loving parents ever and there was no like
necessarily. Like traumatic event that
happened. However, just diving into my
research of trying to figure out where this all stemmed from
besides me just being an anxious, highly susceptible kids
to like the narrative for anorexia on a purely
physiological. Level II was also I was like
really like researching Weston Price and forgot the lady's
name, but she was she was basically speaking about the
fact that when you're an infant and especially when your
breastfed It is so important that when you start eating solid
food, solid foods as an infant obviously, but you don't really
have control over that. But when you start introducing
solid foods to your child after breastfeeding, it's so important
to have iron rich foods. Now, you know, the majority of
people in this world are unfortunately misinformed about
nutrition and stuff, and my parents just didn't know.
So like my first solid foods was like, straight to the purified,
like cereals, and all the horrible things.
And in fact, when I look back now, And I do know that low
iron. I think I think it's Sally.
I forgot the surname from Weston Price, but she was saying, like,
something with the gut and iron, there's like a length of like
low iron, and I know that when I was a young girl, I was actually
diagnosed with low iron and the gynecologist was he even put me
on iron supplementation, but that was, I didn't respond well
to that either. So I think maybe like on a
purely physiological. Think like, right in the
beginning. I think the fact that my first
solid foods weren't Iron, and in no way, I'm not blaming my
parents and at all. It's just it is what it is.
I think that was that also made my gut more susceptible to
being, I suppose but more sensitive and vulnerable.
And then I think, you know, every most things do stem from a
dysbiotic that. So I don't know.
I don't know if you, I can't see like there was no traumatic
event, but also on that book. As a kid, like I did go to,
like, specialist doctors as I mentioned, and they were a few
times where doctors Did speak about weight and did way me and
make like made some sly comments that I think also just were
ingrained in my head, you know, and there were you know in like
between the ages of 9 and 11. I was quite a bit, you know,
chubby and I think I definitely as a kid also had a bit of a
distorted relationship with food and probably also utilized food
to comfort me. So I don't know.
I think there's, there's always a, there's always a lot at play
and they hasn't been like one solid.
Thing that I can say, cause the anorexia that makes sense.
I think there's always a lot at play.
When did you, when did you first realize that there was an issue
with relationship with food? Like, at what point did you
recognize that? This was not normal or healthy?
So I think it's I think I only got to the acknowledgement that
this is not normal and healthy. Actually in 2020, which is was a
very significant year for. For me in my recovery, but I had
always felt just growing up. Very I was always highly
conscious of how I looked and then only like just before the
bulimia started, did I begin to like Research into like
gluten-free and started exercising with the trainer?
And I became more, you know, abs like I suppose obsessed with
exercise and what I would eat but it only really reached a
point where because I was always just glorifying being a Then as
I possibly could. So only when I like, I suppose
reached my Rock, Bottom in 2020, and started, changing, and
turning things around in terms of like wanting true recovery.
Did I think that was like for me the impetus of like, okay, this
is I can't carry on like this anymore.
This is not healthy, and I actually wanted to be healthy.
Were you binging and purging prior to that point?
That just seems absolutely normal to you?
So, I suppose the binging and purging was only, like, when I
was still in high school when I was like, oh, so that at that
time, I was also on antidepressants and like, that
was also one of the side effects just made me want to eat so
much. And I, yeah, I yeah, so I was on
quite a few medications between the years of 2012 and 2015.
So I think the medication definitely contributed to me.
Starting to binge and then because I felt so guilty, then I
started to purge, but the minute I stopped the antidepressants in
2015. My bulimia sort of went into
remission I suppose. And then I didn't really also
because I was a singer. I don't really want to mess up
my vocal cords too much as well. So, like, when I was anorexic,
you know, like severely underweight actively anorexic
was actually Wasn't bulimic. It was only like, you know, I
think and it's quite common in anorexia recovery in the
beginning stages. This is even before I went on
Carnivore. I did find myself feeling like,
you know, just in terms of like starting to eat again, like
absolutely starving. So then I would land that
binging. And then sometimes there were a
few flare-ups where I just couldn't handle that, and I was
quite triggered and then I would Purge as well, which obviously
wasn't healthy. And also the fact that I was
binging on all the cereals and all the horrible things, my
blood sugar. I was just up and down up and
down up and down, which didn't help that.
See, all that, all stabilized, the minute.
I, I went Carnival. I feel like the antidepressants
are an interesting topic because I know I know, I've never used
them myself, but I know several people very closely that have.
And I'm obviously not a nocturnal one, pretend to be one
of the internet, but it seems, as though, when my experience
with those individuals, the, the antidepressants wind up doing
more damage. Image than good and I'm sure
that's not the case. And many people are still
wouldn't be them. But I feel like I've never seen
anything good come from antidepressants and my few
relationships. Yeah, I mean, for the right
person, they can be amazing. But in fact, there's a brilliant
podcast episode with Chris. Dr. Chris Palmer on porcelain
Dino's podcast, and he explained it.
So, well, there's like I also I'm not a doctor but I am not
going to butchering this, but there is a huge link between
antidepressants. And then, One's metabolic
health. So it makes, yeah, I also like,
especially weaning off of antidepressants like, you need
to do that properly and under medical supervision because I
swear, I've never felt so ill in my life, like even when I was
still taking the antidepressants, if I forgot to
take them one day, I almost like I couldn't had like no motor
skills. Like I literally like would just
like I couldn't almost like I forgot how to walk and like I
would drop things like in fact I Was in Israel, one year and I,
we were going for a hike up, one of the mountains and that day, I
forgotten to take my medication and I swear nearly fell off the
mountain. It was quite scary.
So antidepressants are not. I'm not a joke.
Well, that's all I'm not against them for the right person.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's a fair statement for sure.
But, I mean all these like, ssris, you know, they're
they're, they're causing a flux and your body's own circulating,
you know, serotonin, dopamine levels.
And if you look, I think it's serotonin.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't serotonin.
The one that's like 98% of its produced in your gut.
Yeah, I don't know if it I think, I don't know if it's 98.
But yeah, it's it's fact, most of the most of the
neurotransmitters are, there's a large proportion, that is
produced in the gut. Well, I mean, the gut is, like,
the second brain or the first brain.
Depends how you look at it. Yeah.
So for the people that are on these antidepressants, but yet
they have a horrendous diet. I mean, I would imagine that
that is not doing themselves any favors at all.
All. Yeah, I think this takes me to
like one of like my biggest Revelations is that?
I mean even like I don't know if you know, dr.
Daniel Amon, he's a psychiatrist and he for example, he's Justin
Bieber and Miley Cyrus's psychiatrist, but he's also very
well versed in the importance and the significance of what you
feed your body. And he's the first one to say
like in order for you to work on your software.
You have to work on your Hardware first, so get like
darling. In your things like nutrition is
like so important. And in fact, it was only when I
dialed in my nutrition was I actually able to apply
everything that I had been talking about to psychiatrist
and psychologist for years. Like, it was literally only when
I was able to, you know, decrease that newer information
that my brain was clearly under that I was then able to start
actually implementing all the strategies, all the mindfulness
techniques, all the breathing and be able to like move forward
in my life. That makes sense.
Yeah, totally. And I don't know, like I don't
know if we'll ever know if he actual, you know, mechanistic
property of Y and that happens. I'm sure it's gonna be different
for every individual. But like for me when I was going
through all my disordered eating Tendencies, the moment I
switched over to Kido like it just all made sense like all the
everything started clicking. Like I was able to have a much
healthier relationship with food.
I didn't have any more binging like when I switched over to
Quito, I don't remember what day that was, like, some people have
this keto anniversary and I had no idea what Date with I know
roughly the time frame. But when I switched over like
there is no yearning for me to binge anymore.
Like, it was just gone like it just resolved and I think
there's a, there's some physiological implications
there, but I think there's also many psychological implications
because I was excited about what I was doing.
It was new, it was novel. There's no nobody else out there
that I knew that was doing it. And then people started to take
interest in it. So it kind of became part of my
identity as well. And then I kind of, you know,
use That as a way to maintain that momentum and not everybody
has that, you know benefit, but I think there's so much of that
is intertwined between like your mindset and psyche your
psychology towards why you're eating and why, it's beneficial.
But then also obviously it's going to have a physiological
impact on your hormone levels, your glucose level.
I just don't know, you know. No, I don't think we'll ever
know the exact interworking of how all that's tied in together.
Mmm. Yeah.
I think, I think everyone is obviously, on my own journey
and, you know, I've been carnivore.
Or four years, but it wasn't an easy easy sailing Journey at
all. In fact, in the beginning.
I had, you know, I was doing very, very well emotionally and
I, I did definitely experience that whole kito's in that
everyone speaks about. But then had quite a triggering
moments where I went to my endocrinologist and she, I was
so excited to tell her about, like, what I was eating and what
dieters on and I told her that I'm eating all this meat and fat
and she goes But we feed fat and olive oil to the starving kids
in the hospital to try and fatten them up.
And now as like a newly recovering, anorexic that was
like the worst thing you could have told me because it just
triggered enough still so vulnerable.
And also add an educated myself yet exactly about, like, what I
was doing. So, I was so skeptical and so
easily influenced and that triggered, you know, a relapse.
But still a relapse, just under the carnival Realm.
I was still eating but boy did I cut back?
I literally just went back to eating lean chicken and for like
about a year or so, not even a year.
I don't even know how many months and then it was only when
lockdown hit in 2020. My ex-boyfriend.
I had just broken up. So it wasn't it wasn't a happy
time. But and I was also forced to be
at home alone with myself and I suppose that was like, You know,
I actually, I thought I'd hit rock-bottom many many, many
times before that. But clearly, I hadn't and it was
I somehow stumbled Upon Us. Stumbled across podcasts when I
was in the midst of this lockdown.
And I was like, okay, I'm going to educate myself about what I'm
doing with carnivore and Quito and I started listening to all
the podcasts including yours and I just started listening to
doctor speak and hearing stories and I was like, well, when am I
going to be one of the people who experience this completely?
transformation and then yeah, it just I almost like trick my
monkey Mind by continuously surrounding myself with these
amazing podcast episodes with dialogues of doctors and and
people who had gone through these things that I was like
able to realize because the word healthy for me had always been a
very very triggering word in recovery because all that
healthy meant was just getting fatter but by like trained by
like sir, Finding myself with these dialogues and these
conversations with doctors and teacher Specialists and all
these amazing people. I almost like switch to flicking
like switch to click in my brain and I was like for the first
time the word healthy was cool and I was like, it's actually
called to be healthy and it was from I can't give you a date.
I don't know when it was I just wrote was in the middle of
lockdown and I was walking in my God and listening to a podcast.
I think it was with Amber Hearn. And I was just like I want to be
healthy and, you know, we know like you you can do anything
that you set your mind to and from then I was like, yeah, you
have to want something so I suppose that's why I said like
2020 was we're truly all began for me.
Well has to have been. I mean it must have been so
confusing for you to that point because I mean you're probably
getting so much conflicting information from everybody
online, from all the people that you're talking with in the
dialogue in these eating. A clinics because what exactly
goes on in those clinics, I'm assuming they're not really in
favor of a carnivore diet or a keto diet in which case you're
restricting, one macronutrient. I would imagine they would push
back against that. Yeah, 100% nights ago.
In fact, like my parents, when I started Connie ball.
They were like, this is just another eating disorder.
Like, what are you doing? So essentially.
You have to eat everything that they give you, you're not
allowed to not eat them. Otherwise, you'll be not like
punished but like privileges will be taken away from you and
that food entails because they all believe that there's no,
there should be no fear foods, and I don't disagree with that.
I really don't disagree with that, but I'll dive a bit deeper
into that after but yeah, it's just it's essentially a sugar.
Look I said, because your eye at one stage.
I had to eat a whole. I don't know.
You have Lindt chocolate, right? Like this lens chocolate bars.
I had to eat a whole one of those just in one sitting with
like, a whole glass of soya milk and a few handfuls of nuts like
right before bed. And that's just like one
example. And like, there was cupcakes and
all these things and like just on a purely physiological level.
Can you imagine my blood sugar levels and like a ready when
you're in that acute stage of like extreme anxiety because So
when you're so underweight, everything is heightened, like
you're you are just by default naturally anxious because your
body is like so starved. So yeah, I you know, there's
also like you can't, there's no not allowed to speak about food
or body or anything, which I also agree with it because you
know, I suppose they're good and bad things to these clinics and
that it is really outdated and I think there's not enough.
You know, it's the honest actually, haven't really dealt
with what I experienced in the clinics like myself and there's
a lot of trauma involved. And as also these eating
disorder clinics. So this is like something I'm
quite critical of because my first and last Clinic admission
for an eating disorder who are very they were private like
clinics and they were only specifically for eating disorder
like patients. So as opposed to my middle one,
which was in the hospital. Like the government hospital.
That was just a general psychiatric ward.
And I, when I was there, I was actually the only eating
disorder patient and that was amazing for me.
I found a lot of Serenity in that environment because I
wasn't surrounded by eating disordered people and it was
almost like I was surrounded by quote-unquote normal people.
So a lot of things were normalized for me.
I ate at the same table as all these other people and it almost
took me out of my myopic eating disorder world.
So I would actually say that my second when I was in the
hospital was probably the place where I was my most calm, but
going back to the other private clinics when you put a group of
anorexic girls together. It's almost like high school on
steroids. It's just, it's like, it was
it's quite traumatic because, you know what, the other ones
doing and then the people who had been there longer had
different Privileges, and they could disrupt their own food,
and you could clearly see that they didn't do it properly.
And it was just a bit of a The bit of a nightmare environment
and everyone's triggering each other and everyone's telling on
each other and it's like it's awful.
So, yeah, it does not very conducive to the progress and I
feel like a Rena T know. Yeah, and I feel like with with
them. I'm an imagine that with the,
you know, the directors. They're like, they're pretty
much falling under the belief that, you know, it's calories in
calories out to have a Mixed Plate.
It a little bit of everything. Don't feel guilty for eating
anything. There's no such thing as a bad.
Food. That's kind of what their
underlying premises, right? Yeah.
So for a moderator that's really cool, but for an abstainer that
is a nightmare and it just doesn't work, in practice the
jaw, going back to you like about Mafia Foods.
I do, I agree. I do agree with that, and I
think that's where self-awareness comes in because,
you know, in the beginning, even in the beginning of my Carnival
Journey, when I was still very much, very new in the world of
coming out of, you know, extreme energy.
Yeah, I I was fearful of food, but now after having educated
myself about food and about how different macro nutrients
respond in your body and you know processed foods are just
not the way to go necessarily. In fact, to be honest ever.
We know that alcohol and cigarettes are bad, you know, so
too is something like vegetable oil.
This is good. I'm not going to get into that
because I'm sure your audience know the dangers of vegetable
oils and refined processed grains and stuff.
Anyway. Now that I've got the knowledge
and now that I've done so much healing, I can see that.
I'm not like I'm not restricting these Foods out of fear.
I'm restricting them because I'm educated and what the outcome
would be in my body and it's like just as I'm going to say no
to drugs. I'm going to say no to something
like that, but it's not coming out of the place of fear.
So I think that that's the reason why self-awareness comes
into play is that you need to be aware.
Of your intentions in that moment.
Like you need to be able to like be stoic and realize is that
this an eating disorder? Sort of reason why I'm saying no
or is this a actual fact like, you know genuine?
No, I do not want this and because I think in the early
stages of recovery, that can be quite blurry, or maybe you'd
it's not blurry, but you just don't have the confidence to
like own up to the fact that it's been, you know, a fear, the
fearful. Irrationally fearful thought
because obviously eating a piece of cake is not actually going to
kill you, you know, one piece of cake, but it might actually if
you yeah if it triggers a whole binge, maybe it won't
necessarily kill you then and there.
But yeah, yeah. Yeah.
No, I totally agree. I feel like there's I think it's
probably a little bit different for me based off of their
Outlook and they're they're just, you know, Persona of food,
but for me, you know, I'm definitely more so of an
Eliminator than Moderator. And I think most of the people
in the keto carnivore space probably are as well.
But I feel like a lot of people struggle with this desire to
test themselves to see if they've truly recovered by
allowing themselves. Something some foods.
Like I had one client and good friend and he struggle with
disordered eating and his his hang up.
So to speak was that he would do so well for so long and then he
would feel that. He needed to test himself to see
if that, you know, Act of testing himself would result in
this order Tendencies, or if he was able to moderate and almost
without fail, every single time. He did it, it led to him, you
know, going off on another tangent of eating in Surplus.
And I think, you know, for so many people, the idea of being
able to moderate things, the idea of being able to embrace
eating, you know, something on birthday or on our anniversary.
On a wedding or something of that is just incredibly
appealing. Lot of people try and use the
relationship with their kids and their kids friends.
Like if your kids having a birthday party, you should be
able to have piece of cake and not ruin your life and I would
agree that it shouldn't ruin your life.
But my whole philosophy towards it is that cake shouldn't have
that power over you to begin with.
If it's not good, if it's not yielding any positive in your
life. If it's not creating and you
know, a performance Improvement positive.
Outcome. Then then why have it in the
first place? Like that's, that's been my
whole premise. Like if it's not benefiting me
then I don't want it to because the temporary high that you get
from that sweet taste is not worth it.
It's just not worth it in my personal opinion and there's so
many ways, especially with the popularity of Quito and low
carb. Now.
I mean, there's so many ways to make a ketogenic version or a
low carb version of those Foods. So to try and justify eating
those Foods. If you're somebody that
struggles with that, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Yeah, I think that one would have to check themselves, you
know, if is this like some sort of unconscious self sabotage,
but, you know, I suppose it goes back to what type of person you
are. Because like, yeah, I agree with
you, but I also agree with the other side of the coin as well.
So I suppose it's really it. Yeah, it's a Yeah, I don't have
a side that I could pick on but I in my personal life, how I I
love my life. I'm exactly.
I I know that like the brief high of having some sugar is not
going to be worth, you know, us especially because I've been
eating clean for like so long and I want to say, I don't want
to put clean and dirty as good or bad food, but the fact that
I've been eating a species appropriate diet for so long.
I'm so used to running on such clean.
Clarity and such good energy. And when I have tried those
Foods because I mean I have had like even even if it's a source
on meet, you know, if I'm eating out I just don't you know,
obviously that does I don't run on like for like about a day in
a bit. Sometimes it even can trigger
like anxiety. I mean, not not from like an
anxiety where I feel guilty for eating it but like actual
anxiety in my body like the next couple of several days, so I am.
With you in my personal life, but I don't want to, I suppose I
can tone. I can't speak for anyone else
that myself. Yeah.
Yeah, totally. I mean in Echo that 100% like
I'm not saying that my way is the only way by any means, do
you think? And this is probably going to be
quite dependent upon the individual to.
But do you think it is good or bad to associate Foods as being
good or bad? Because I've heard both
arguments on this and I feel like, like I understand the idea
of Hey, look, there's no such thing as bad food, you know, you
should be able to consume everything and it's kind of like
the dose makes the poison so to speak.
But at the end the day, like if it's something that's, you know,
heavily processed has a bunch of crap filler ingredients in there
isn't really is totally devoid of nutrition.
I don't feel like it's totally outside of the realm of, you
know, reality to say. Hey look, that's a bad food.
Yeah. No, I completely agree.
And this is why I'm so grateful for actually educating myself
because now I don't even attach a motion to it.
It's like it's a scientific fact that that is not even food and
that like my body doesn't even know how to digest that.
So I I've reached a point G. I've educated myself and I've
even done. I'm also a qualified nutrition
advisor. I don't even have emotion
attached to the fact that I don't want to eat something
process because it's like it's not even food.
So in terms of good and bad eye. Going to be like quite blunt in
saying I suppose I don't know if it's good or bad but it's it's
either food or it's not food. And I like to mimic as I like to
simulate as much as I can of like how our ancestors used to
live and they would not have come across white sugar and like
how we know it and takes and I don't know bread.
They wouldn't have come across that in a natural environment.
And that's all I'm going to say on that one because I think the
rest just falls into place from there.
No, it makes them make sense that favorites.
Very eloquently put for sure. What about the?
This is something I've only I guess I've known about it, but I
haven't really dealt with it personally.
I guess it may have indirectly but I know of a type of anorexia
or disorder eating in which case the the manifestation isn't so
much the manipulation of your intake and you know binging and
purging necessarily But more, so it manifests itself and
heightened sense of activity, much more activity.
Like, I know of people who just train, you know, manik trainers.
Like, they drain an intense amount.
Like they literally walk for miles and miles, run for miles,
and miles trained incredibly intensely to basically
increased. Expenditure the point where
they're able to maintain that incredible thin composition, but
they're not doing that VM purging the Food.
Do you have experience with them?
Yeah, you speaking to one of them?
Well, I'm Ricardo. You're not so over exercise and
I suppose it is a type of purging.
If you do think about it. It's a very common overlapping
trait that a lot of people with any disordered eating disorder
will have it's not necessarily A type.
I think a lot of as I say like a lot of they're like, you know
subheadings of different. Very seasoned different symptoms
that all fall under the same, you know, either anorexia
bulimia. So, yeah, it's, it's not an easy
one as well. It's again, it is, as I said, it
is a type of purging and that's also been quite a journey in and
of itself to find to like, press pause.
And be like, okay, am I going for a walk now?
Because I genuinely want to and I want to enjoy it or am I going
now? Because I feel guilty about what
I've done. Just eaten.
It is a hard hard. I must say, like, I managed to
get over the eating, much quicker and much more, like,
sustainably than I have with the my relationship with exercise
and movement, you know, also given how much I know about the
importance of moving the body in, how we were born to move
just as a human species. It's it is quite challenging,
but all I can Says The more I've educated myself, the more I'm
able to rationalize it to myself and to you know work on those
little moments of like questioning like really being
critical. Like are you doing this out of
fear? Or are you doing this?
Because you really want to. It is very difficult.
Yeah. It is interesting because I look
at other addictions, for instance, like addictions to
drugs, addictions to alcohol, addictions to pornography, and
things that nature. And it's easy for people to To
recognize that. Hey, this is probably not a good
healthy Behavior. This is this is something I'm
dealing with but it's not a good thing.
Whereas with you know addictions to food or addictions to
exercise. It's like those are good things
like food is a good thing. Exercise is a good thing.
So knowing how to you know, moderate that in your life or
implement it in a sustainable healthy fashion becomes such a
point of confusion because like No definitive Playbook of like
you as individual need to do this amount of cardio.
This is a matter of right weight training, this amount of, you
know, macros and calories to be the best for you.
And there's so many question marks out there and you have so
many conflicting points of information.
So with regard to training, I'd love to get your take on how
you're, you know, improving that relationship for me like when I
would finish a competition prep, and I'd be at my leanest.
I became addicted to that look and it was very hard for me.
To embrace putting on Bonnie fat eating more, and not just kind
of going into this incredibly, you know, using exercise as an
outlet to keep that, you know, that lean physique.
However, once I educated myself and recognize that there's so
many benefits that come with a period of a caloric Surplus,
putting on some healthy body fats, letting my metabolism up
regulating my hormones, balanced letting my body be primed for
building, more lean muscle tissue.
All of that comes in the Text of having little more body fat
eating, at a surplus. So, like, once I recognized
that, it made it much easier for me to embrace the little bit of
body fat that came with that, but I'm assuming that's going to
be different for everybody. Especially if they're not doing
a sport like body building in which you have kind of more
defined goals. Yeah.
Look, I mean even even like I remember in the beginning stages
of my recovery, and I was I think it was even the podcast
that I was listening to with you and you were speaking about
different weights and things and I remember then being quite
triggered. Like even the fact of thinking
about weights and stuff. I it I could feel okay.
Maybe I need to just press pause right now because I'm not ready
to listen to the rest of us, but now looking back.
It's like I suppose it has, it has been a process is just what
I want to say and you can't necessarily put a time frame on
it, but I'm going back to educating yourself because now
it's like the more it's almost like taken emotion out of it
completely the more of educated myself.
So I wanted to say that in terms.
Training. Sorry, what was your specific
question? Because it?
Yes, I thought of so many different things.
Now. How are you personally kind of
doing this for you? Like how are you working through
the exercise training portion of their relationship?
So at the end of the day, I I've come to realize that I really I
made myself extremely. Well, I was very, very sick
emotionally and also physically. So everything has been about
building, all of that up again, which has been in and of itself.
It's own battle and the standard be.
So I haven't. I haven't also.
I think my body was just completely exhausted.
I was just so depleted. So I didn't really have the
energy to like, go into hardcore training and things.
And in fact, whenever I tried to go for a run, I actually land up
once fracturing my pelvis. And I mean, even at the music
started, when I was studying musical theater, I was still
like, you know, I started off very underweight as well, and I
was always injured and everything.
So I actually physically couldn't even begin to like,
train hardcore, but what I could do, It was walking and to help
facilitate, like, not being bored on these long walks.
I turned to podcasting as well. So that's, it's almost like I've
put my like education time and like, where I learn along with
my movement. I suppose it is easy to listen
to a podcast and taking information when you're doing
like a locomotive action, like walking.
I mean, I don't think I would be able to do a podcast if I'm ever
going to train and things. But to be honest, I haven't
really been that. That type of person to like go
and train. Just because for the last few
years, I just haven't actually had the energy.
The only other sort of exercise. I did besides walking and yoga
and then for a brief period running.
Before I fractured my pelvis was dancing at college and that was
in a class and I was distracted. So I'm not like a I am wanting
to start implementing more resistance training.
I do sometimes walk with weights and things, but it Now I just
have to go back to am I doing this now?
Out of fear and I have had, you know, the exercise piece.
I'm still working on. If I am honest I haven't fully.
You know reached a point where I don't ever feel anxious and I
feel like I might like have to go for a walk or something but I
don't I can't just because I physically can't do those
hardcore things because whenever I've tried even if it's a
hitting I just get injured the next day and I just literally
can't do that, but it is still Will a battle of mine I suppose
and haven't although it's a lot better, but I haven't fully like
a supposed to relinquish that. And I'm just trying to like
almost Be like, yeah. I just, I always manage it in a
way. Yeah.
Now that's that's good. You mentioned something earlier
than was incredibly impactful for anybody.
That caught it and I caught it and I feel like a lot of people
need, we need to backtrack a little bit.
You mentioned that when you went for that audition that that was
for that was for dancing, or that was for singing.
So for singing, acting and dancing.
So that that is what encompasses musical theater.
So there was a In component and acting phone and and the dancing
component, and then an interview and that you're basically given
the heads-up on that. Was it three days prior to the
audition. Yeah, pretty much three, four
days. And in those three days, that's
when you were on a high, you felt amazing.
And you were able to kind of have some forward momentum away
from your your - Tendencies, correct?
Yeah. Now that is interesting to me.
I feel like I feel like so many of our ailments.
So many of our, you know, so many of our addictive Tendencies
Brew up in the in the context of an idle mind or an idle
environment. And I don't remember the quote
exactly but it's like, oh shoot. I'm going to butcher it but it's
the devil's playgrounds and idle mind or something like that.
But I feel like any time that I've seen, you know, profound
progress in my life personally is when I'm going a million
miles an hour towards things. I'm passionate about and the
business has been a vehicle of that.
For me. The bodybuilding has been a
vehicle of that for me, having a very defined goal.
In which case there is a defined time limit, but you, you
understand the, what's at stake. You understand, what needs to be
done. You understand?
All that that has to be done in order for you to be proud of the
outcome. And I feel like when that
happens, when that is looming, your ability to bypass these -
addictive Tendencies is incredibly heightened.
And so I feel like everybody owes them self to find those
things that make them tick, that they are passionate about that.
They want to excel at and they'll be much more likely be
able to mitigate any of the adverse tendencies that they may
suffer from. It is so important.
It is so important and if you are struggling, you know, to
find things that are you know, that makeup you holistically
besides, you know, food and diet and exercise regimes like go
back. When you're a kid, like, what
have you used to enjoy doing a kit doing as a cat?
Like what made you happy? You know, that's why I, as I
mentioned, that's why I wanted to seek an adult dance class.
You know, when I was able to start exercising again, right in
the beginning, because I knew that as a kid that made me
happy. It's really, really important
because I've often described, you know, the anorexia as like,
you know, you can feel when you're when you're, you know,
thinking and behaving out of the air.
Anorexic mind and you can also think when you're like that,
suppose, I supposed to go rational versus your irrational
mind. Also.
I'm not a fan of labels and just because I believe that we are
just all human, and none of us were born broken.
We're all just living the human experience.
And I feel like when someone's labeled with something, they
often just take that on. Like it's actually, so crazy.
How I know I'm going on off on a tangent, but like so many people
who are so many people who like, are diagnosed with bipolar.
It's actually just blood sugar dysregulation.
It's quite crazy. So, yeah, I'm quite outspoken
about labels. But anyway, just for the purpose
of this, just makes it easier, I suppose.
So when you're flipping in and out of, like, you're irrational
versus your rational mind, like I've often described how I
described it. For example, to my mom who she's
never had a disordered relationship with food ever or
body less her. I'm quite jealous, but I have
explained it to her. Is that like I know it's like
when the anorexia is I'm triggered.
I call it my monkey mind. It's almost like, I'm someone's
holding me back. Someone's like, pulling my arms
and, like, trying to hold me back.
That's like everything that makes me fulfilled and makes me
happy. For example, the singing, the
acting the dancing, and speaking about mental, health and
wellness, and the significance of nutrition, and being on those
podcast. Like, those are things that
like, fulfill me emotionally. And that, like, almost keeps my
head straight and keeps my body. Moving forward, as opposed to,
there are some moments. Obviously, they are always going
to be triggers. Always ups and downs.
That's inevitable. Just as much as being happy as a
reality. So too is being sad.
We need the darkness in order to see the light.
So I do have some obviously a lot stronger to deal with them
that like I've often just described, you know, with like
the anorexic mind like pulling me back.
But then all the other things that are purposeful to me are
like so important in keeping my head straight and keeping me
moving forward and keeping me as I say, like distracted, I
suppose because it's so easy. It can Can be so easily
especially in the beginning of recovery when you're so
vulnerable. And so sensitive to like flip
back into the myopic eating disorder world.
And that's why I think, you know, at in those private eating
disorder clinics. That's why it was most unhelpful
for me because I was like, continuously stuck in the myopic
small little world that the eating disorder, ultimately made
me feel as opposed to when I was like out of that, I was focusing
on. Is externally and them almost
the macrocosm of my world, you know, it's huge.
It's huge as a zen-like, a to give sustainable recovery and
actual proper full recovery. I've actually, you know, when I
was in clinics, I did meet obviously a lot of girls and so
many of them had almost like they've been to.
So like they've almost I hadn't met like as opposed to 10
admission some of them even and it's like they've become I'm so
used to being in an eating disorder clinic that it's like
they've become almost like so institutionalized and it just
like breaks my heart because it's like if they could if you
know if their counselors all dieticians and whatnot over, if
there was like a life coach, that could help them find those
things that fulfill them and like, is their purpose.
I swear. It's like, oh I'm getting quite
emotional. It's almost like it's because
I'm sure, you know, but like anorexia has got the highest
mortality rate and it's just It breaks my heart because I feel
like I'm one of the very, very lucky blessed ones.
I don't know how, but I just somehow feel like I've really
found the recipe for like true recovery.
And I know everyone's story is obviously different.
But while I think having a purpose is just going back to
your first point, Sorry for the tangents, but it's significantly
profound know. And it's like, it should be.
We're born like, if as a kid. Like, you know, I feel like kids
are the most Like authentic beings, like they know what they
want. They know what makes them happy
to know when they're hungry. They know when they're tired.
Like, it's almost like somehow along the way we get
disconnected to that, and it's all about reconnecting and
having the confidence to own who you are suppose.
Yeah. I totally agree.
And once you once you figure out what that is, that excites you?
I think people constantly look for, you know, everybody says I
want to be happy, they look for what makes them happy.
But I feel like that's almost synonymous with what?
Excites you? Like if you're excited about
something you are you are likely going to be happy.
So figuring out what excites you and then moving towards that.
Getting that positive, momentum built up and then the beautiful
thing about spinning, your time energy and efforts towards that.
Thing, that excites you is after that's happened for long enough,
and you've got time on your side once enough time has elapsed
where you haven't relapsed, then it becomes so much more easier
to keep avoiding that relapse because that no longer is what
defines you. It's no longer your identity.
That's no longer something that holds you to that standard.
So you gain more confidence in who you are?
You gain more self-awareness and you just have the choice.
You are empowered to make the choice of your decisions at that
point. And that's you had that freedom.
Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I
experienced as well. Like the mall that I committed
like to surround myself with people that I've left me and
only surround myself with those people and only surround myself
and put myself in situations. Patients that have left me.
It like just has a whole cascading effect that ultimately
gave me the sense of confidence and it's it's revelatory.
It's unbelievable and just going back to like your authenticity
and things. I just want to put this quote in
there because it was so profound in my journey and the midst of
my anorexia. I did go to a life coach and he
worded it. So, well, he said to me, Kelsey,
if you are unable to nourish your authenticity, how do Expect
to nourish yourself on a purely physiological level.
And that like, just hit so true because that was before, that
was just after, I had come out of my first inpatient clinic for
each disorder and it was so true.
It yard, really resonated profound me with me.
Do you do like Journey journaling?
Or do you do like video logs Vlogs or anything like that to
document this journey? I wish I wish I did.
I have had the thought in the back of my head and I do a lot
of writing and I suppose in my music as well.
That's where I that was always been my emotional Outlet.
So with my music and with like my writing and I've also written
a lot of scripts and things, it's in there.
And in fact, when I was at musical theater, when I was at
the college and one of the requirements was that we had to
write a journal. So that was so powerful.
And I've kept it with me actually, like, it's really, I
know it's not sexy to say like journaling is cool and so
powerful as an intervention, but it's really really powerful as
an intervention. Yeah, I encourage you to do
something that's forward-facing to the community that you're
trying to build the audience that would resonate with what
you're saying. Because there's something
powerful to be said, for when when you're going through
something and you're simply documenting that journey and And
it resonates with people that are going through something
similar. And they find Hope in you, it
strengthens your resolve that much more to not let them down
and then you get better for it. And then it just becomes a
mutually beneficial relationship at that point because you keep
getting better personally. And then they keep finding
inspiration and motivation to keep staying the course as well.
So if there's any, you know, medium or way to manifest that
so that you're putting yourself out there and being vulnerable
being transparent and then it is getting in the A people that
would resonate with it. I guarantee you that when added
a ton of value to them and to you.
Yeah, I agree. In fact, I've had a dream of
solving my own podcast. So I think I mean that's in the
pipeline for me. Yeah, so I think that will also
be a great medium for me to actually speak out.
Good good. Good because I mean you've got
an incredibly inspirational story and you've you've been
able to speak it to speak your own truth in a way that I feel
like would be incredibly impactful.
Painful for others that are going through something similar
because so many people go through this and it's not really
talked about like it's not really vocalizing.
I remember when I first came out and was public with the fact
that I had struggled with disordered eating.
Like people thought I was really bold and brave for talking about
it. But for me, it was like, why
would I not talk about? This is just my life's chapter
in my life. So I feel like it's it needs to
be more widely spoken about in a way.
That's just honest and authentic.
So I commend you for, you know, Ancient, doing your own podcast.
That's what that's where it takes you.
I agree. And that.
Yeah, thank you. Well Kelsey until that podcast
is live and people can go there to listen to you.
Where else can they go? Find you sure.
So you can follow me on Instagram at Kelsey Beholder.
I'll send you the link to put in the Nerds.
And I have a YouTube channel with some of my music.
However, it is quite outdated just because I haven't put like
some stuff up there in quite a few years.
I suppose since the anorexia actually, but watch that space
because I have written a whole lot of new music over the years.
And I'm busy trying to record it to be able to share it with
everyone. And then yeah, I'm also supposed
besides Instagram and YouTube. That's pretty much.
It also watch the space for potential podcast soon.
So yeah, awesome. Well, I will definitely link out
to the Instagram and YouTube channel in the podcast when it
does, when it does come to be Kelsey.
If there's ever anything I can do.
Do for you at all. Please don't hesitate to reach
out and let me know and happy to help in any way.
Thank you. And likewise, and I look forward
to hopefully seeing you guys in Cape Town.
Yes, we'll be selling around the world at some point.
So I will definitely let you know when that happens until
then. Take care and keep in touch for
sure. Kelsey.
Thank you. Bye bye.