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Hello, ladies and gents Roberts.
Thanks, kiddo, Savage that 

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comment today. 
I have special guest Michelle 

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Seager on the line and we dive 
all into habit-forming, I am 

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very much. 
So a habit oriented person I'm 

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very big into routines. 
That's just who I am, it's how I

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tick. 
But she has just recently wrote 

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in a written, a book about how 
to excel in life, in a 

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sustainable fashion. 
If you are not a natural habit 

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forming person. 
So I really was excited. 

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Having podcast pick her brain 
and just figure out what are 

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some? 
Some tangible practical. 

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All tips and just honestly, what
makes people perform one way 

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over the other. 
So I thoroughly enjoyed the 

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conversation. 
I've got no doubt that you will 

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take something from this as 
well. 

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So that further Ado, sit back, 
relax and enjoy the podcast with

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Michelle Seager. 
And we are lab Michelle. 

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How are you greatest Taste of 
you here? 

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I'm excited for the 
conversation. 

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So I am a big advocate for 
routines habits, getting 

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everything dialed in, like I 
started seeing success in my 

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life, once I started to, you 
know, figure out what kind of 

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habits routine to work well for 
me personally, and when I was 

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pitched you as a pun casket, 
Just you have a very interesting

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take on habits and routines and 
other just kind of dive into 

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what you found that works well 
for you and kind of the basis 

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for your book. 
But before we dive into them 

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what what got you started on 
this life path. 

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Anyways like what was the 
motivation for diving deeper 

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into what makes people 
sustainably do things? 

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Well sure, while there was 
something really specific, I was

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getting my first masters degree 
in. 

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Kinesiology which is the study 
of movement in 1993. 

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And we did a randomized 
controlled trial with cancer 

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survivors. 
Looking to see if exercise could

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reduce depressive and anxiety 
symptoms. 

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And these were survivors who you
know like five years after the 

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treatment. 
So they were you know busy 

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adults not serve not they 
weren't being they weren't in 

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treatment. 
And so anyway we had a finding 

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That was unexpected despite the 
fact that the people who 

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exercised, you know, reducing 
their depression and anxiety 

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symptoms compared to the group 
that didn't, when the study 

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ended, everyone stopped 
exercising, not everyone. 

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Most people, and we knew this, 
because we called everyone back 

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and conducted focus groups with 
them about 12 weeks after the 

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study and ended, and what 
became, you know, I asked 

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people, why do you stop? 
Exercising and they said, oh my 

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gosh, Michelle, we are busy. 
We've got to work and we have 

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families, and we have this that 
and the other to do. 

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And, you know what, became clear
to me was that these people had 

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not stopped exercising, because 
they were cancer survivors. 

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They had stopped exercising 
because they were just busy 

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adults living their lives. 
And I thought if people who had 

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faced a life threatening 
illness, didn't feel comfortable

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or have the right? 
Skill set to continuously 

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prioritize their own self care 
through behaviors like physical 

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activity. 
Then we have a real problem in 

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society and it was that insight 
and I said, I grabbed that 

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problem is that that's my 
problem and I'm going to solve 

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it. 
So I hope everything I've been 

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doing for almost 30 years has 
been in service of trying to 

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understand what prevents most 
people from sustaining self-care

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behaviors like Activity and 
healthy eating. 

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And most importantly, what, what
is the emerging science say 

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about this? 
You know, what is my own 

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research say about this? 
As well as the research of 

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others and I've been a health 
coach for almost that whole time

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and what have I learned through 
working with people. 

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So that's that's what got me 
into that. 

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What do you think? 
The people I definitely want to 

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dive into your findings are but 
out of curiosity what makes you 

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think the people that are really
really good at maintaining 

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habits and rituals winter? 
Teens, like, what is it? 

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That, that predisposes them to 
be really well at that while 

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other people are not good at 
that at all right? 

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Wow, that's a really important 
question. 

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And, you know what, for what I 
say in the book and I came up 

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with just a fun way for people 
to think a little critically 

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about what they've tried and 
what works. 

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And what does I came up with 
these two new categories calls? 

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Paul, the have better versus an 
A bitter and, you know, you 

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definitely sound like, you're I 
happen to her and when I think 

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of someone who, you know, who 
plant routines and automatic 

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habits, you're going to work 
well for, you know, I think of 

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people like my husband who are 
very disciplined and organized 

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and may not have a lot of 
unexpected hubbub arise in their

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life versus other people who 
might not be as organized as 

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discipline. 
If I put myself in that category

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and have a lot of unexpected, 
things arise. 

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And so those are some pretty big
differences that I think 

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determine whether someone is 
ultimately going to be 

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successful with more of a rigid 
approach to their self care 

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plans versus people who who just
can't seem to maintain that. 

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I definitely think that, you 
know, playing The People's 

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strength is the way to go. 
I mean, Q. 

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You don't want to try and fit a 
square hole or square peg into a

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round hole if you want to figure
out what is best for the 

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individual. 
But is it simply a matter of 

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teaching that individual how to 
become more disciplined and 

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organizers. 
It totally a reverse engineer 

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and just doing what works best 
for them. 

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Like what does that look like 
from a practical standpoint like

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for you as an example? 
Sure. 

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Well, that's another really 
great question. 

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No one's asked that question 
before and I think it's a really

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important question. 
I think to answer that question,

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we need to take a step back and 
understand what the research 

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shows. 
So there are always going to be 

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personality differences that we 
need to respect. 

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I don't think as a society, we 
have approached Behavior change 

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in a way that has permitted 
individuals to create strategies

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based on their strengths. 
I don't think we've had as 

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Enough sophistication in the way
we've approached it. 

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And I also think there's been a 
Dogma that has predominated our 

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approach and it's you know you 
do it right? 

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Or not at all you hit the 
bullseye. 

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And again it works for some 
people. 

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I don't think it works for most 
and so again to refer back to 

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your question, the research that
is looking at whether people for

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example, with eating When they 
look at, for example, there's a 

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study a weight loss registry 
strata study. 

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And they wanted to see over a 
Year's period of time who was 

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more successful maintaining 
their weight loss over a year 

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and their primary research 
question or the one they wrote 

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about was the people who come to
weekends, who, you know, again, 

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these are people who've lost 
weight and their there must be 

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maintaining some time. 
Of eating plan to maintain their

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weight. 
And so the research question was

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do people who come to weekends 
and are kind of, they're more 

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flexible with what they eat 
versus people who are more rigid

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right sticking to the plan which
group better sustains their 

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weight loss. 
And this is just one of many 

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studies that shows that people 
who are more flexible when it 

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comes to, like a special 
occasion, like the weekend. 

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Or a party actually are better 
are more successful sustaining 

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weight loss and sticking with 
ultimately a more consistent 

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pattern and and you know, so 
that's the way I'm going to 

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answer your question. 
I don't know that it's going to 

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help people like me. 
For example, reverse into 

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engineer to try to become more 
of a habit or like my husband. 

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I don't know that we can change,
you know, because it's not just 

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about our personalities. 
It's also about her. 

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Contacts. 
Now I want to be very clear 

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planning is very important for 
everyone. 

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Whether you have a really busy 
life, whether you're a habit or 

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not have or whether you're 
retired and you you know your 

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foot loose and fancy free. 
Because if we don't plan then we

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have nothing to aim for, right? 
So planning is important what 

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what I'm really asking people to
think more deeply about is 

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whether aiming for the bullseye 
is really the way to create the 

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behavior change that most 
consistently supports your 

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greater eating and exercise 
balls. 

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I got you that makes sense, I 
feel like sustainability is of 

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Paramount importance, whether 
it's with regard to your 

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nutrition, your training, your 
business relationships, like 

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whatever really is, that's all 
going to be hinged. 

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On one's ability to sustain that
over time, and have that 

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compounding impact towards Go. 
I feel like a lot of people, 

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they, they have like this 
Bullseye approach, but then if 

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they derail from that, even the 
slightest, it causes them to 

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just totally go off the rails. 
And, like, using food as an 

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example. 
If somebody doesn't hit their 

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intake on the nose, then it's 
like they've viewed it as a 

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total loss and then they'll eat 
everything in sight and just do 

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a lot more damage than is 
necessary. 

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Whereas people that are more 
flexible. 

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Isabel using that word. 
They they don't view it as a 

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complete loss, they just trying 
to get right back on track. 

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I could see that being the case.
I feel like everybody's there's 

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like a dichotomy that exists 
between yes, hitting the 

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everything perfectly and doing 
whatever is most sustainable for

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that individual. 
But everyone's going to have 

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everyone's going to figure out 
what that were that point lies 

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on their own unique Spectrum, in
time, I guess, right? 

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Wow. 
So, it would be ideal. 

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Really fast what happened? 
But your example of you know not

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hitting the bullseye and then 
feeling like a failure and 

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crashing and burning. 
Unfortunately, I mean I use the 

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word dogma early earlier for a 
really specific reason. 

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I you know, I didn't start using
that word document until I was 

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writing the book because um, you
know, I've been working with 

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people for decades and you know,
I besides clients that I maybe 

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were work with, you know, 
friends. 

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And family, and you see how 
people cycle in and cycle out 

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and stop and start and stop and 
start but don't sustain. 

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And the narratives, the stories 
that you hear people tell about 

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what went wrong and why they 
failed. 

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It's the same thing, they didn't
hit the bullseye and you know, 

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and so it's become a dog mod 
that gets people to just see 

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black and white and success and 
fail. 

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And so in in in the new story of
behavior change that You know, 

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that that I think we need and 
that I'm trying to tell is we've

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got a we've got a breakdown that
Dogma that for most people is 

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just a lose-lose. 
Now again, it works for some 

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people that do the, hit the 
bullseye, my husband hits a 

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bull's-eye, like it works for 
him, and that's great. 

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And maybe it works for you too, 
but the research is suggesting, 

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maybe for your average Joe 
person or average Jane that 

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isn't going to work. 
And so we want to create a new 

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New world with behavior change. 
If you will, where people do 

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figure this out. 
But I will if I if I were you 

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know, get if you said to me 
Michelle I want you to make a 

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bat. 
Do you think most people are 

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going to fall on that kind of 
rigid part of the spectrum and 

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be successful with that or that 
most people are going to succeed

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on the more flexible content is 
part of the Continuum? 

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And, you know, I would not 
hesitate to put most people 

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needing the more flexible 
approach. and in the end it's 

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for well, I think it's human 
nature because if we step out 

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away from this conversation that
we're talking about eating and 

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exercise and working out, and 
fitness, if we step outside of 

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this and we think about every 
other aspect of Our Lives 

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parenting and partnering and, 
you know, when our dentist calls

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us the day before and says the 
day, before an appointment, it 

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says, hey, I can't make the 
appointment I need to reschedule

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Schedule. 
We don't fire our dentist, 

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right? 
Or if our friend, or if we can't

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meet a friend at a plan time or 
we had planned to like, take a, 

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you know, whatever have a drink 
for two hours and laugh and have

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fun, what are, you know, 
whatever we plan to do. 

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And if we can only make it for 
30 minutes, our friend doesn't 

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dump us. 
Like in all these other areas of

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Our Lives, we flex intuitively, 
and innately and organically. 

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But when it comes to eating and 
exercise, we don't bring the 

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same. 
Ability and Grace. 

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Yeah, I think I've always said 
that it's better. 

228
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I mean you just want to have 
progress, you know, over time 

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and I feel like I've always said
that it's much much better to be

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90% 100% of time than to be a 
hundred percent 10 percent of 

231
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the time. 
Because, you know, like if 

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you're looking at something that
is sustainable like that and 

233
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exercise, like I can go really 
freaking hard in the gym and I 

234
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can nail my macros, you know 
perfectly, but that done every 

235
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single day. 
A of my life and existence would

236
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get rather monotonous and drab. 
I wouldn't want that. 

237
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And then I would likely burn 
out. 

238
00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,800
And I feel like a lot of people,
I mean, 100% is not sustainable 

239
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for anybody, like, 100% with 
anything is not much time before

240
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,800
anybody. 
However, there are times in 

241
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life, where you need to be, you 
know, at Peak Performance but 

242
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,000
it's a finite period of time. 
Like nobody would be able to 

243
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sustain a hundred percent 
maximum output indefinitely Or 

244
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else they would literally die. 
But I Like figuring out what at 

245
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what point you can continue to 
see Progressive progress and 

246
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,000
growth day after day after day 
for the long-term. 

247
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,500
Like that's when you kind of 
know you're in this sweet spot, 

248
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this Flow State so to speak. 
Well, I mean what you're 

249
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suggesting speaks to performance
goals, which is a really 

250
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different type of aspiration, 
been living a life, maybe that's

251
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full of energy and well-being, 
right? 

252
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,300
So if someone has Formance 
calls. 

253
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Then you do have a specific 
Northstar that's guiding your 

254
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,800
action. 
So I was speaking at the 

255
00:15:22,808 --> 00:15:24,900
University of Texas about this 
idea. 

256
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:29,900
I don't know, a couple months 
ago and one a student-athlete 

257
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:33,800
raises hands and said, you know,
about this very conversation and

258
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,800
he said, you know, if I didn't 
train hard, if I decided not to 

259
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:43,100
go to, you know, not to run and 
in between races that I, you 

260
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:45,300
know, then I'd probably get 
kicked off the team. 

261
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:49,000
And I wouldn't do well. 
And so there's a difference and 

262
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,600
the answer is of course so if 
you're an athlete or you're 

263
00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:59,300
someone who is so focused on 
performing and gaining in a 

264
00:15:59,308 --> 00:16:07,500
certain way than you do have to 
achieve certain thresholds. 

265
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:10,500
Right? 
But I think the problem is that 

266
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:19,900
that type of mindset has Has 
been has been what the normative

267
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,500
belief has that. 
This is what we should all be 

268
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:25,800
working toward and with the 
number of roles and 

269
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,300
responsibilities that most 
people joggle unless you are 

270
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:34,400
deeply committed like someone 
like you to, or again, you know,

271
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:40,400
to really continuously improving
at a certain level that type of 

272
00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:48,100
belief system and Which is 
people are just going to keep 

273
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:52,400
trying and falling off, right? 
Because it isn't going to fit 

274
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,800
into their lives. 
So I mean that's a key point is 

275
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,900
what do you what are you trying 
to do? 

276
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,000
And I think, as a society we've 
been over focused on achieving a

277
00:17:03,008 --> 00:17:06,300
certain level of fitness and and
using these things to lose 

278
00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:10,000
weight, which you know, research
shows generally doesn't work, 

279
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,400
right? 
What do you think? 

280
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,400
The goal like the main goal? 
Just keeping with the, you know,

281
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,000
Enos nutrition aspect things. 
At what do you think the main 

282
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,000
goal of you know the general 
population Society is like 

283
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,500
they're not the general Society 
is not trying to step on station

284
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:28,600
be a competitive bodybuilder 
like myself, but I would say 

285
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,700
that the general population 
wants to be the best version of 

286
00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:39,000
themselves, right? 
I think currently people's 

287
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,800
primary goal for changing their 
eating as losing weight and that

288
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:50,900
is, that's a problem because 
well, for we know that first of 

289
00:17:50,908 --> 00:17:55,400
all exercise is, is not very 
good at helping people lose 

290
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,000
weight. 
It's helpful at helping people 

291
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,600
maintain weight. 
But if we shift into eating, 

292
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:07,100
Losing weight is is intertwined 
with so many negative 

293
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:11,400
experiences like like 
internalized weight ISM and 

294
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:18,300
stigma that it contaminates 
people's desire and motivation 

295
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:21,000
for eating and healthier and 
better ways. 

296
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,300
So I think most people do change
their eating for weight and it 

297
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:31,200
actually sets most people up to 
rebel against it and not follow 

298
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,700
through. 
Do not sustain. 

299
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,700
I definitely think there is a 
massive percent of the 

300
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:39,800
population that is just under 
this chronically restrictive 

301
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,400
mindset, which I think is very 
unhealthy, you know, people just

302
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,900
dieting at all times. 
Not really having any jian-yang 

303
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:50,200
relationship with food, give 
themselves time and a healthy 

304
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,700
Surplus, give them some self 
time and healthy deficit. 

305
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:55,900
Like a lot of people just 
chronically under eating, which 

306
00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,900
is not going to bode. 
Well from from a metabolic 

307
00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:02,000
standpoint, from a hormonal 
standpoint from a relationship 

308
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,700
with food standpoint, as a lot 
of negatives that come with just

309
00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:08,600
chronically under eating. 
Do you feel like people are 

310
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,800
confused at times about what the
north star of health is because,

311
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:17,600
as of late, you seen a lot of 
people try and switch gears and 

312
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,600
probably gonna ruffle some 
feathers here about kind of 

313
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,500
Sensational, izing being 
overweight, and that being 

314
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:27,800
presented as a, you know, good 
thing. 

315
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,100
Like, you don't have to be, you 
know, at a certain The way to be

316
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:35,100
healthy but it's almost gone to 
the extreme of advocating. 

317
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:39,300
People be really overweight. 
Do you think that has kind of 

318
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:42,700
led to the confusion of many 
people's North Star? 

319
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:48,700
I don't know that has led to the
confusion of Nova, Northstar. 

320
00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:51,800
I think the and I don't know 
that there's a confusion of the 

321
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,600
North's time, and I think the 
North Star unfortunately, has 

322
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,700
been and continues to be 
focusing on weight. 

323
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:06,700
Because I think our society has 
really indoctrinated people to 

324
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,200
just continuously be in the 
cycle, the Vicious Cycle of 

325
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,400
failure when it comes to this, 
I, you know, I think what we 

326
00:20:13,408 --> 00:20:18,500
need You to do regardless of 
whether someone is quote-unquote

327
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:21,300
carrying extra weight or not or 
overweight or, you know, 

328
00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:26,000
whatever category, you know, 
they may fall into, you know, 

329
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:29,600
it's counterintuitive, but I 
think when we start to help 

330
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,700
people learn to associate their 
food choices with how they feel,

331
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,100
and the Neuroscience supports 
that, this is the way to change 

332
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:43,400
people's relationship with 
eating and to help. 

333
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,500
Reduce Cravings. 
So, you know, when I work with 

334
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:51,900
clients and when I speak to 
organizations, I suggest that we

335
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:55,400
basically, you know, Rebrand 
health is well-being. 

336
00:20:55,500 --> 00:21:02,400
We shift away from Biometrics 
like weight from external ways 

337
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,000
of measurement and we start to 
use our internal systems to help

338
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,200
guide us. 
And, and again, that is what the

339
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,000
Neuroscience suggest. 
I don't know if, you know, 

340
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,700
Justin Brewers workout But he 
started out with addiction and 

341
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:20,000
smoking cessation. 
He's a neuroscientist and he's 

342
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:26,400
moved into eating and craving 
and the same principles that he 

343
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,400
used for smoking cessation. 
Such that when you help people 

344
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,500
become without judgment more 
aware, more mindful of their 

345
00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:41,500
Cravings, counter-intuitively it
actually helps them better 

346
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:45,500
resist, the Cravings rather than
Than succumb to them and that 

347
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,800
you know, has has implications 
for long-term effects. 

348
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,300
So, I think what we want to do 
is actually shift away from 

349
00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:58,100
weight, regardless of whether 
people, you know, have 

350
00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:03,200
health-related issues or her 
want to lose weight because, you

351
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,300
know, Decades of experience and 
research would suggest that 

352
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:12,000
tying are eating changes in 
eating two and a weight loss 

353
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,500
aspiration or North Star. 
Is not going to is not going to 

354
00:22:15,508 --> 00:22:19,100
help us achieve sustainability. 
It's does that? 

355
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:20,800
Does that make sense at all to 
you? 

356
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,700
Yeah, I can certainly get behind
the message of, you know, really

357
00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:26,900
focusing on people's internal 
signals and honestly just 

358
00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:31,000
getting people more self-aware 
about how they feel and wise, go

359
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,800
that way because I feel like, I 
mean, I see this with my clients

360
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,500
all the time especially when 
we're doing something like 

361
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:39,000
increasing calories like in a 
reverse that many people just 

362
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,400
simply focus and fixate on the 
scale, but they pay no mind to 

363
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,500
How much better? 
They feel their recoveries 

364
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:47,300
improve. 
Their Sleep Quality has improved

365
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:49,200
their libidos and prove their 
energies and provide all of 

366
00:22:49,208 --> 00:22:51,000
these are metrics that are 
worthwhile. 

367
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,700
And I feel like those are often 
times just placed on the back, 

368
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:56,600
but are never really given the 
attention they deserve. 

369
00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:00,200
Why do you think I'm kind of 
bouncing all over the place 

370
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,000
here? 
So, please forgive me. 

371
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,100
But why do you think we are in 
somewhat of an obesity crisis? 

372
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,700
Now, do you think this is the, 
the main thing is stemming from 

373
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,500
a psychological response to 
Mainstream messaging and that's 

374
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,600
kind of derailed the general 
population. 

375
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,700
Or what do you think? 
The Catalyst for that has been 

376
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,400
oh my gosh. 
Wow, I think the quantity of 

377
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:30,400
food that we have available to 
us is really, really relevant. 

378
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,800
You know, it's not, there's not 
a single answer, it's a very 

379
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,300
complicated thing. 
But, you know, if you go to the 

380
00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:39,300
grocery store, I have a very 
healthy relationship with food, 

381
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,800
you know, and I, you know, 
maintain my weight just 

382
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,700
intuitively. 
Ali, but if I'm in a situation 

383
00:23:46,700 --> 00:23:50,400
like, if I'm someplace or we 
have a party, we have a lot of 

384
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,800
leftover potato chips and 
Cheetos, I'm just, you know, 

385
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,600
it's right in front of me. 
I'm going to just go to town 

386
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,300
because it's very hard to 
resist. 

387
00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,300
So I think the quantity, the 
options. 

388
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,900
It's crazy. 
So I think that's a big part of 

389
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:12,100
it. 
The other part of it is, Is that

390
00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:15,600
we've been taught that we 
shouldn't have this quantity and

391
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,300
that creates a rebellion. 
It's, you know, there's this 

392
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:22,200
Theory called reactance theory 
that says that human beings are 

393
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,400
motivated to rebel against, or 
to liberate themselves from the 

394
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,000
things that are taking away 
their freedom, right? 

395
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,400
So if we should exercise instead
of want to do it, then we don't 

396
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,600
want to do and if we can't have 
that then of course we're going 

397
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,100
to have it. 
It's like we have this inner 

398
00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:42,900
toddler inside of us. 
It says, you can't tell me what 

399
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,900
to do, like that's what the 
research shows that, you know, 

400
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:48,800
and it's like a human nature 
crashing. 

401
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:55,100
So it's a very complex but I 
think if we didn't have the 

402
00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:58,900
quantity of food available and 
you know, then there's you know 

403
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:06,100
what food is cheaper, right? 
You know, if you buy Whole 

404
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:09,600
Foods, I mean, I find any way 
when I go grocery shopping and I

405
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,300
really do prefer to eat whole 
Foods that my grocery bill is 

406
00:25:13,300 --> 00:25:16,800
much higher. 
If I buy, you have having to 

407
00:25:16,808 --> 00:25:20,700
have a big shopping that's full 
of that type of food than, you 

408
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:25,400
know, and other type of food. 
So it's very complicated. 

409
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,700
No, I agree. 
I think the, the quantity of 

410
00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:32,000
consumption is definitely grown 
over the years. 

411
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,300
I feel like people people just 
so out of touch with their body 

412
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:36,700
and why they're butterflies the 
way it does. 

413
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:40,900
It's honestly mind-boggling and 
think about the portion sizes, 

414
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:45,200
when you go Restaurant. 
It's huge. 

415
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,300
I mean, just huge when you go I 
remember when I first live in 

416
00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:53,600
Spain in the 80s and the portion
sizes in a restaurant, we're so 

417
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,600
different. 
Now that may have changed, you 

418
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,200
know, I don't I it's been a few 
years since I've been back and I

419
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,900
haven't, you know, looked at how
much they're serving people or 

420
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:05,800
whether it's a touristy spot or 
not, but you know, we're just 

421
00:26:05,808 --> 00:26:08,900
handed so much more on a plate 
than we actually. 

422
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:12,200
And then we're then we get our 
bodies used to eating more than 

423
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,600
we probably actually need. 
So it is so there's that too. 

424
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,300
Yeah, I think overconsumption of
nutritional avoid Foods is 

425
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:23,100
definitely contributing factor 
because if you're not getting 

426
00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:26,000
the nutrition you need you're 
going to have to consume more of

427
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,000
it. 
So you're basically getting all 

428
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,100
these empty calories and I think
people probably have, I mean, 

429
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:33,800
there's been some arguments 
counter to this but I feel like 

430
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:37,400
on average people's activity is 
probably less now than it was 

431
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,300
you know, 50 100 years ago, just
fewer people doing Manual. 

432
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:46,000
Labor lot more sitting in front 
of a computer, a lot less 

433
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,600
movement throughout the day. 
I feel that's true but I believe

434
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,400
there's been research with 
hunters and gatherers around the

435
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,300
world that suggests. 
It's very, very 

436
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:03,000
counter-intuitively that the 
movement has very little to do 

437
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:09,100
with actually the weight. 
So our society has certainly 

438
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:11,200
changed and we've become much 
more sedentary. 

439
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:14,000
Hurry. 
But you know, this is this is 

440
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,000
not my area of research, but I'm
pretty sure the the, the latest 

441
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,600
research on using hunters and 
gatherers with accelerometers 

442
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,300
shows that the amount of 
movement isn't going to 

443
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:30,900
influence our weight too much. 
Yeah, I don't necessarily think 

444
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,600
that it moves the needle on the 
weight that much, but the 

445
00:27:33,608 --> 00:27:37,500
composition of that weight. 
Probably is changed drastically 

446
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:40,400
for instance, like if someone 
maintains the same weight but 

447
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,900
has No, a higher percentage of 
lean muscle tissue. 

448
00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:46,200
They're going to be able to 
tolerate a higher caloric load 

449
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,500
than if they were, you know, had
a much higher body fat, 

450
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:49,900
percentage, relative to lean 
mass. 

451
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:53,600
I think that's probably changed 
but I don't think they at the 

452
00:27:53,608 --> 00:27:56,500
end of the day, the weight has 
been so much affected by 

453
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,800
movement, if that makes sense. 
You sure. 

454
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,900
And that's not really, you know,
I don't know to as much about 

455
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:05,600
that as you do, probably. 
So, I don't know that I can add 

456
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,600
to the to that comment, too 
much. 

457
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,600
Let me ask you this. 
You mentioned earlier. 

458
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,600
How? 
Human nature is such that when 

459
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,600
people feel deprived or depleted
or disallowed of something, they

460
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,000
crave it that much more in my 
space like with with my 

461
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,300
demographic in the keto space, 
you know, a lot of people are 

462
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:27,300
totally eliminating 
carbohydrates as a food group 

463
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:30,400
and they're finding success with
that so that it's kind of begs. 

464
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,900
The question of, you know, are 
you a moderator or are you an 

465
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:36,700
Eliminator kind of similar to 
how you framed it earlier with 

466
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:38,800
people being habit, errs or 
naturally? 

467
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,400
Unhappy bitters, what's your 
take on the The mud are the 

468
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,000
moderator versus Eliminator. 
So is that just a another token 

469
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,300
of Bio individuality there? 
I, you know, I I would say it is

470
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:54,900
but I would also say, you know, 
and I don't know the answer this

471
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:58,300
because I haven't worked a lot 
with Peter people following the 

472
00:28:58,300 --> 00:29:01,900
keto, although I do recall 
having dinner a couple years ago

473
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:04,300
with a friend of mine who had 
been following the keto and he 

474
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:08,900
just raved about how he felt. 
And, you know, I wonder if the 

475
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:12,200
people who succeed following the
ketone, Diet again, there are 

476
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,900
people who are II, don't know if
it's, you know, just performance

477
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:21,900
goal oriented or whether it's, 
you know, to get healthier in a 

478
00:29:21,908 --> 00:29:24,900
certain way. 
But I would, if I were going to 

479
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:28,700
bat about why the people who are
following it, who are sticking 

480
00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:32,200
with it, I would bet it's 
because they know that they feel

481
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,300
better. 
When they follow that way of 

482
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:37,400
eating, then when they don't, 
and they've learned the 

483
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,400
difference that would, that's 
what I would assume. 

484
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,300
But you since you work with 
people, why don't Tell me what 

485
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:44,200
you found. 
No, I agree with that. 

486
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,700
For sure. 
I feel like people that 

487
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:48,300
experienced a tremendous amount 
of success with it. 

488
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:50,500
Like that's been the case for 
me, at least for sure. 

489
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:55,700
Like that draws me much more so 
than the temporary high that I 

490
00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:59,000
would get from having a more 
mixed diet and been able to 

491
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,500
moderate things better as 
opposed to just simply 

492
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:03,900
eliminating the things that I 
know don't really contribute to 

493
00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:07,200
My overall health and betterment
and I feel like the end of the 

494
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,300
day it kind of bodes. 
Well for habit-forming anyways, 

495
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:14,100
like if you Have less decisions 
to make throughout the day. 

496
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:18,700
Like, if you have last decision 
fatigue, you will have a better 

497
00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:22,400
ability to form and stick to 
habits and sustainable fashion 

498
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,600
of the feel like, the more more 
questions, people are faced with

499
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,000
in the more decisions people 
have to make, that's has a 

500
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,400
directly correlated effect on 
one's willpower and resolve to 

501
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,700
stick to good habits. 
I think I think you're right. 

502
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:40,200
I think there is an element for 
the people. 

503
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,500
This works for her. 
At having to make fewer 

504
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:48,500
decisions, simplifies things. 
But if you are someone 

505
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:53,000
potentially with less in a self 
control all, and there is some 

506
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,100
research to suggest that, you 
know, people who are more 

507
00:30:56,100 --> 00:31:01,700
successful forming automatic 
habits, they might innately be 

508
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,200
more disciplined. 
So in that case, that would 

509
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,700
work, but if you're not one of 
those people, then learning how 

510
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:12,600
to eat in a more moderate way or
with You know, again flexible 

511
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:19,100
restraint is this research that 
I've been seeing suggest you 

512
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:23,000
know I think it's it goes back 
to if someone has been 

513
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,900
successful then they need to 
keep doing what they're doing. 

514
00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:30,600
But we do know that the majority
of people in society have not 

515
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,600
been successful sustaining, you 
know, changes in eating plans 

516
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:42,400
and increasing their physical 
activity and so If the majority 

517
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,100
of people have not been 
successful and just keep 

518
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:49,000
cycling, you know, and through 
Vicious Cycles of failure, then 

519
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,800
I think they need to ask 
themselves. 

520
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,800
What, what are the ways in, 
which what are the strategies 

521
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,400
I've been using? 
What are the beliefs? 

522
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,600
I've had about what success 
looks like and if those beliefs 

523
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:07,300
and those strategies, haven't 
led me to succeed long-term to 

524
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:11,000
sustain the changes that I 
really wanted to make. 

525
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,800
Then I think it's time to, you 
know, where people need to say, 

526
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,300
okay this I have evidence. 
Am I going to keep banging my 

527
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:25,800
head against the same wall? 
Or is it time for me to discover

528
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,800
alternative approaches that I 
haven't tried before? 

529
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,300
And that might be 180 degrees 
from what I have tried. 

530
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,100
I agree. 
I think this this kind of all 

531
00:32:37,100 --> 00:32:39,900
boils down to have that software
and it's because it, like I said

532
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:43,200
earlier, it's amazing to me how 
people how many people lack 

533
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,600
Clarity on, even what works? 
Well for them, and what doesn't 

534
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:49,600
because they, I think it's, I 
don't know, but I think it's 

535
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,200
because people are so caught up 
in comparing to others, 

536
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,500
especially with the rise of 
social media and how easy it has

537
00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:58,500
become to compare one's life 
with others. 

538
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,300
The more people do that, the 
less likely there are to be able

539
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:06,600
to Simply look in the Year be 
reflective be introspective and 

540
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,800
just simply know what they 
respond best to. 

541
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,500
So on that note what do you 
think would be a good litmus 

542
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:16,600
test so to speak for people that
listen to this? 

543
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,500
That may not know what they are 
naturally, you know, inclined to

544
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:25,200
do from a habitual habit-forming
standpoint or more. 

545
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,800
So from an uninhabited, inhabit 
standpoint. 

546
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,300
What, what's a good litmus test 
for people to figure out what 

547
00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:35,500
they are naturally likely to be?
Well, that's a great question. 

548
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,800
So I guess one thing I don't 
know if there's one what I would

549
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,900
do like if I were working with a
client and that client didn't 

550
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:45,600
have a lot of self-awareness 
and, you know, we were trying to

551
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,200
figure out how to move forward 
at the beginning of working 

552
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,000
together. 
I would I would have them make a

553
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,600
list like what? 
Like, let's really do an audit. 

554
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,600
Let's do an audit of, you know, 
people aren't going to be able 

555
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,600
to remember everything but like 
think about what are five to ten

556
00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:03,000
ways. 
You've tried to change your 

557
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,400
eating programs, Done or 
exercise, you know what? 

558
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,699
So I want them to do an audit 
and then write it down and then 

559
00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:13,800
I would want them to rate, you 
know, maybe. 

560
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,600
Well first, I would want them to
assess. 

561
00:34:17,900 --> 00:34:21,000
Did that work for you? 
Did it work while or not? 

562
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,199
Well, generally, you know, and 
how long approximately and then 

563
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:28,500
you know the next question for 
each of the options would be. 

564
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:32,500
Did you like it? 
You know, did it feel good to 

565
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:33,400
do? 
Did it? 

566
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,600
Did you feel? 
Like you were kind of in tune 

567
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,100
with who you are as a person and
so, you know, that would be a 

568
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:49,400
type of mapping if you will or 
audit of past strategies, how 

569
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,199
they worked, whether people 
liked it and then that would 

570
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,199
guide based on the answers to 
those questions, it would guide,

571
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:58,500
okay? 
Like let's say you had, you 

572
00:34:58,500 --> 00:35:02,500
tried things that were pretty, 
prescriptive and rigid and it 

573
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,300
didn't work but you also didn't 
like Right? 

574
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,600
While that would be a hint that 
maybe you should do something 

575
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,700
that's has more variety. 
In fact, there's a whole program

576
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:19,000
of research showing that when 
you add variety to behaviors, 

577
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,000
whether it's physical activity 
or eating that people increase 

578
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,400
their intrinsic motivation and 
I'm sure you know you know you 

579
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,800
probably know a lot about 
intrinsic motivation in the work

580
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,800
you do. 
And that that's a really 

581
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,100
important predictor of, it's a 
very high-quality stable mode. 

582
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:40,100
Aviation, so that would be how I
would start and if people wrote 

583
00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:45,100
other things, you know, if 
there's a mismatch with what 

584
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:50,000
people try and and or or if 
something they've tried doesn't 

585
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,600
work and they don't like it. 
That is, I wouldn't say it's a 

586
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,300
red flag. 
I would say that's a green flag 

587
00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:59,100
that you want to go in the exact
opposite direction. 

588
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:03,000
What if somebody tries something
that is working, but they don't 

589
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:11,000
like it. 
Wow. so, if The person in the 

590
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,600
past. 
So we are we are we talking 

591
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,600
about currently or in the past 
currently like somebody like 

592
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,900
just continue with the nutrition
and you know, exercise 

593
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:23,600
phenomenon here, if somebody's 
doing something and they're 

594
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,400
seeing, you know, tangible 
progress with it but they don't 

595
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,900
like it. 
Is that something that they 

596
00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:32,900
should just try and like a 
certain amount of time that 

597
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:36,600
people should honestly try to 
sustain something for, you know,

598
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,800
proper homage to kind of, you 
know, become And lay a 

599
00:36:40,808 --> 00:36:43,800
foundation for is there like is 
there like a certain amount of 

600
00:36:43,808 --> 00:36:45,600
time? 
People should try things to see 

601
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,000
if they learn to like it, or 
what's your take on that? 

602
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,100
That's a great question. 
Well, there really isn't a 

603
00:36:52,107 --> 00:36:56,200
period of time that we know that
habit formation happens, right? 

604
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,800
So, you know, it, there's kind 
of, if you could see me, I've 

605
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,100
got my two hands up. 
And on the one hand on the 

606
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:08,200
scale, there's if people are 
making changes for performance 

607
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,900
reasons, and they're seeing 
those Formance reasons like 

608
00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:15,200
that's a compelling that is 
compelling and meaningful to 

609
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,500
someone who's deeply committed 
to performing on the other hand.

610
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:26,000
If they don't like it, it 
depends on which hand the 

611
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,900
performance goals or the 
experience of disliking. 

612
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:34,400
It is ultimately going to win 
out, you know, if someone cares 

613
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,200
deeply about the performance but
they don't like it. 

614
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,800
I don't have trouble. 
Justin will keep doing the, I 

615
00:37:41,808 --> 00:37:45,300
mean, maybe the performance 
will, you know, again, just 

616
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:49,700
overcome it and it will help you
ultimately achieving in those 

617
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:52,200
ways is just going to become 
very meaningful to you. 

618
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,500
But, you know, when it comes to 
physical activity research, the 

619
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:59,100
research I know about really 
pretty clearly shows that it's 

620
00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:03,900
how you feel during that 
predicts whether you stick with,

621
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,500
you know, that predicts physical
activity over time, not even 

622
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:09,500
afterwards. 
It's how you feel during and so,

623
00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:14,600
Given that I, you know, again, 
if you forced me to place a bet,

624
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:19,800
I would guess that the disliking
was going to win out, but I 

625
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,600
don't have any trouble, kind of 
railing someone to keep doing 

626
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,200
something that feels meaningful 
to them, until they may decide. 

627
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:31,900
I just don't have the energy to 
push through the dislike anymore

628
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:36,800
and that is an energy level 2. 
So you mentioned earlier, you 

629
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:41,300
know, that when you eat a keto 
diet or another, Type of plan, 

630
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:44,700
or what is it called? 
A witch. 

631
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,500
Like a fasting where you're 
allowed to eat certain During 

632
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:53,300
certain periods of the day. 
It reduces your need to think, 

633
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:54,900
right? 
Which is kind of a mental 

634
00:38:54,900 --> 00:39:00,000
relief, but on the flip side, 
when you have to push yourself 

635
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,900
to do something that doesn't 
feel good, think about the 

636
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:07,400
amount of energy that takes. 
So what I have seen happen is 

637
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,200
people decide they're going to 
do it for, you know, again, it's

638
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,200
usually tied to weight loss, not
weightlifting, because I don't 

639
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,100
tend to work with, you know, 
performance in that way. 

640
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:19,800
Um, so it's tied to wanting to 
lose weight and they may start 

641
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,200
out strong and be committed and 
see results. 

642
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,200
But eventually, you know, their 
motivation bubble which was so 

643
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:33,800
big and and meaningful when they
started out on the path, it 

644
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,300
bumps up against something 
unexpected in life, especially 

645
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:40,200
with an uninhabited, her and it 
just burst right? 

646
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,200
Like you're pushing yourself and
your using all your harnessing, 

647
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,400
your energy to push through the 
Like like you're tired at the 

648
00:39:47,408 --> 00:39:50,400
end of the day but you're or at 
lunch, but you're going to do it

649
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,000
because you've got this goal but
how, you know, how long can we 

650
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,000
do that? 
And then if you find out that 

651
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:02,000
that work deadlines got moved up
by two weeks, holy cow, you know

652
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,500
or your kid comes home and has 
extra homework to do and they 

653
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:10,300
need a lot of help like all of a
sudden you have to put that 

654
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:13,500
energy somewhere else and then 
that's usually when Things Fall 

655
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:17,100
Apart when people have to push 
through something Don't like 

656
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:22,100
yeah, I think in order for that 
to work I mean you have to be 

657
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:25,100
seeing some positive return on 
investment May. 

658
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:28,800
I'm, I'm probably wired a little
bit different like I'm probably 

659
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,000
like a little bit of a sofa 
masochist. 

660
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,800
Like I like being miserable like
I smile when I'm miserable 

661
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,200
because I know that most of the 
successes that I've personally 

662
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,400
seen in life have come from, you
know, periods that were 

663
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,100
incredibly hard and trying and I
grew in those moments. 

664
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,700
In so many different ways. 
So I typically view those 

665
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:54,700
hardships, those adversities as 
as, you know, the darkness 

666
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:56,500
before the dawn. 
So just be like that's that's 

667
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:59,300
the that's the catalyzing effect
that are. 

668
00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:01,500
That's making something good. 
Come from it. 

669
00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:05,800
But I have had so many instances
in my life where something very 

670
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,900
good came from that. 
I feel like a lot of people, 

671
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:14,700
oftentimes don't experience that
positive Roi because they either

672
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:16,300
don't do it long enough or they 
don't do it. 

673
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,100
Enough for whatever it is. 
But if they don't experience 

674
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:22,500
that positive at the end of it 
all, then it would be incredibly

675
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:25,900
hard to ever have any motivation
to do those hard things because 

676
00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:29,000
it just seems like it's all for 
naught, right? 

677
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,600
But, you know, and when you 
were, when you were started 

678
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,300
talking, I it sounded to me like
you were talking more about life

679
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:40,700
challenges and finding meaning 
in them and you know which we 

680
00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:47,100
know that You know, both Dan 
pink and Susan, Cain's new 

681
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:52,400
books, you know, talk about, you
know, regret and appreciating 

682
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,400
when things might be difficult 
and making meaning and that sort

683
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,900
of thing. 
You know, I think that the 

684
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:03,100
research is pretty clear that 
growth comes from making meaning

685
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:08,300
of difficult challenges, but I 
think that is kind of a big 

686
00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:14,400
difficult when I think of, you 
know, someone trying to Adopt a 

687
00:42:14,408 --> 00:42:22,100
healthier lifestyle and it being
hard, I view that as more 

688
00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:26,300
difficult to find the capital 
and the meaning in it you know 

689
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:32,700
because I think there's so much 
mundane wrapped up in it both in

690
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:34,900
what people are trying to do. 
And again I think what you were 

691
00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:40,200
talking about social media. 
I think that can easily be an 

692
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,400
inspiration for someone but on a
suit but on a more superficial 

693
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,400
Official level and less 
meaningful level, and that is 

694
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:53,600
also, if people initiate change 
using social media and again, 

695
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,800
there's nothing wrong with being
inspired whatever inspires you 

696
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,900
is great, right? 
Like, I'm not saying there's 

697
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:00,100
anything wrong with being 
inspired. 

698
00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:05,200
The question is, whether that 
type of inspiration is going to 

699
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,200
get you to stop and start and 
stop and start and feel like 

700
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,500
failures continuously or whether
it's actually going to say you 

701
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:14,800
know what this is. 
This is what I've been waiting 

702
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,300
for. 
I'm ready to take better care of

703
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:21,500
myself, right? 
I mean, that's what I'm, that's 

704
00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:25,300
the kind of motivation that my 
goal is with a coaching client, 

705
00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:30,600
is I want to help them discover 
a really compelling date on a 

706
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,400
daily basis. 
A really deeply relevant 

707
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,900
compelling, why? 
For the choices that they've 

708
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:41,600
decided they want to make? 
Yeah, I think I think that is 

709
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,800
very much so the key Like you 
have to have a compelling 

710
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,200
enough, why or else you just 
simply not going to be able to 

711
00:43:50,207 --> 00:43:52,700
sustain things for the amount of
time, necessary to see that 

712
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:57,000
positive Roi feel like you have 
to know anybody can watch a 

713
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,400
movie, or, you know, the social 
post or something like that and 

714
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,100
get fired up in the moment. 
But if like, you can't connect 

715
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:07,900
the dots to figure out why 
you're even fired up and how you

716
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:10,600
could benefit from that in your 
own life, to the point where 

717
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:15,000
you're wanting to live that out 
and it Adopt then, I feel like 

718
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,900
it's it becomes more of a 
negative than a positive because

719
00:44:17,900 --> 00:44:21,100
just constantly leaves you in 
this sense of turmoil, so to 

720
00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:23,600
speak. 
Yeah, that makes sense. 

721
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:30,700
You know, our reasons for doing 
anything determine have a domino

722
00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:34,400
effect and they influence 
whether we develop high-quality 

723
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,400
motivation, low-quality stable, 
motivation. 

724
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:43,300
So it is our wise are deeply 
consequential, and I would 

725
00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:47,600
suggest Jazz and I bet you've 
seen this you know again and 

726
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,600
again that there is there in I 
think in society there's been a 

727
00:44:51,607 --> 00:44:55,700
complete under emphasis on the 
why we've all been focused on 

728
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:59,000
the way, do it this way. 
Join this program, get this 

729
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,700
exercise equipment and not 
nearly enough has been focused 

730
00:45:03,700 --> 00:45:07,700
on why, why are we really doing 
this? 

731
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:12,300
Why do we really care about 
overhauling this or that? 

732
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:20,300
Or Eating this or that because 
that are wise to determine what 

733
00:45:20,300 --> 00:45:23,700
comp what follows and whether 
it's sustainable or not. 

734
00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:29,600
So I think we need to open up a 
whole new conversation at a very

735
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,500
wide scale about our wise. 
I agree. 

736
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,000
I agree out of curiosity. 
What does a typical day-to-day 

737
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:41,000
look like for you if you're not 
a, you know, routine oriented 

738
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,200
like habitual person? 
Innately. 

739
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,700
What does a typical day look 
like for you? 

740
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:48,200
Is that, is that different on 
the day-to-day, or is there much

741
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,700
structure there? 
That's a great question. 

742
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:53,200
And I have to, you know, let me 
think about that. 

743
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,400
Well, you know, I think there's 
a self-care higher gear, I 

744
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,600
proposed that we should create a
self-care hierarchy and where we

745
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,900
know what our foundational 
self-care behavior is. 

746
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:09,600
So that if we don't do it, our 
day isn't going to go well, and 

747
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,400
for me, that sleep for my 
husband is exercise and so, So 

748
00:46:13,408 --> 00:46:17,000
he'll skimp on sleep, if he 
works till midnight, he'll still

749
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,500
get up at, you know, 5:00 a.m. 
to exercise because he needs it 

750
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:25,800
to feel his best but I need to 
get enough sleep. 

751
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,200
So my day, absolutely something 
that is, you know, routinized is

752
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,600
trying to get the sleep that I 
need. 

753
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,400
I don't always get it and that's
just life, right? 

754
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:42,200
You know, I, you know if it's 
during the school year, I have I

755
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:47,800
take my The school also you know
getting up and I don't have 

756
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,200
breakfast until I'm done with 
that part of it and then I work,

757
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,600
you know, and my my primary 
physical activity is walking. 

758
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:01,300
I used to run, I love turn but 
knee problems have prevented me 

759
00:47:01,300 --> 00:47:06,400
from maintaining that. 
So one thing that I do is on a 

760
00:47:06,408 --> 00:47:11,500
daily basis, I may not know when
I'm going to fit my walk-in, so 

761
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:13,000
that's something that I'm 
unclear about. 

762
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,200
But I have a very strong wife or
walking it, you know I like to 

763
00:47:18,207 --> 00:47:23,500
walk outside your round because 
being outside just boost my 

764
00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:25,500
mood. 
There's something expansive 

765
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:29,500
about being able to see this guy
walking through neighborhoods 

766
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:33,600
with trees. 
So in that way but I have the 

767
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,700
luxury of you know as a 
researcher who also does this 

768
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:40,800
other type of work? 
I am in control of my schedule. 

769
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,800
Most people are not right. 
So That means I want to, I 

770
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,600
basically want to own up to 
having the luxury of being able 

771
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,300
to decide when I'm going to take
a walk or not. 

772
00:47:53,300 --> 00:47:56,300
And you know during the book 
launch which has been going on 

773
00:47:56,300 --> 00:47:59,400
for the last couple months. 
I've had, you know, a ton of 

774
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,000
interviews, my time has really 
been different. 

775
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,400
My daily schedule has been 
different and I haven't been 

776
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,200
able to take my ideal walk on 
most days. 

777
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,400
Notice I said most and not all 
days. 

778
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:16,300
Right? 
Because I know that using the 

779
00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:21,400
word most has motivational 
implications versus all. 

780
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,000
I can't do all days, right? 
That gets back to your 100% 

781
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,900
situation, so I say on most days
but during this season of book 

782
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:33,500
launch, if you will, I haven't 
been able to do my walk as much 

783
00:48:33,500 --> 00:48:39,700
as I would like to do it, but 
because I know that being 

784
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:43,400
flexible in doing something 
rather. 

785
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,700
Rather than nothing or the what 
I call the joy Choice, the 

786
00:48:46,700 --> 00:48:49,600
perfect and perfect option that 
lets us do something instead of 

787
00:48:49,607 --> 00:48:52,000
nothing. 
You know, that's what I do. 

788
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:57,100
And a couple weeks ago, I asked 
my family to take a walk after 

789
00:48:57,100 --> 00:49:02,700
dinner and a few steps into the 
walk, my very astute 14 year old

790
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,500
son, cocked, his head and turned
to me and he said, mom is this 

791
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:12,100
walk a joy choice for you which 
basically meant. 

792
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:13,900
You didn't get your idea. 
In today. 

793
00:49:13,900 --> 00:49:16,300
So this is this is the next best
thing. 

794
00:49:16,300 --> 00:49:19,600
This is the perfect and perfect 
option and he was right on the 

795
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,900
money. 
And that's that's what I think 

796
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:25,500
more people need to learn. 
So that's kind of you know, 

797
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:28,600
hopefully they give you a flavor
of that. 

798
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,600
Yeah, no totally and I feel 
like, you know, your your book 

799
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,400
launch right now that's kind of 
like the with with your chapter 

800
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:37,600
in life current. 
That's kind of like the 

801
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,400
performance room. 
So to speak that you're trying 

802
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,100
to optimally could try to get 
that dialed in, so that's the 

803
00:49:43,100 --> 00:49:45,300
area. 
Oh, that would be getting a lot 

804
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:48,300
of the focus which makes sense. 
I feel like people have 

805
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:50,800
different Cycles different phase
of different chapters in their 

806
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,500
life and in those different 
chapters, you know, priorities 

807
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:58,300
and focuses shift and you kind 
of have to like I don't know how

808
00:49:58,300 --> 00:50:02,000
to illustrate this, but I've got
this concept that I'm working 

809
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,900
on, in which case, most of the 
things that are important to me 

810
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:10,100
in my life, can be placed into 
five primary pillars, so to 

811
00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:13,300
speak, you know, I'm not 
focusing 100% of my time. 

812
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:17,200
Fit on all five of those pillars
simultaneously, but there's 

813
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,400
certain chapters of my life in 
which one pillar gets more 

814
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,700
attention than the other. 
But the the idea is that they 

815
00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:25,100
all share a symbiotic 
relationship and they're all 

816
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:27,200
growing. 
They're all benefiting from one 

817
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,900
another. 
In the focus, that I'm placing 

818
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:33,100
on one another, but I can't be 
maximum output on all five of 

819
00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:35,800
those at all times. 
There's there's times where one 

820
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,900
gets more attention than others 
and I feel like that's that Bose

821
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:44,200
itself to sustainability. 
Yes, I think I think Right, and 

822
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:49,800
you're absolutely right. 
And if I were so if I were kind 

823
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,200
of an someone who's been in the 
Vicious Cycle of failure and 

824
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,500
I've been doing following some 
eating plan and exercise, and I 

825
00:50:57,508 --> 00:51:00,300
was feeling great. 
And then the book launch 

826
00:51:00,300 --> 00:51:03,700
happened and I just couldn't do 
what I had been doing. 

827
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:07,500
What typically happens is, 
someone would deem it as a 

828
00:51:07,508 --> 00:51:09,300
failure, right? 
I failed. 

829
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:13,300
I can't keep going, but notice 
how I said, it's a season. 

830
00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:18,500
Now, I'm in this book, launch 
season, and I'm not feeling like

831
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:20,300
a failure. 
I mean, I wish I could take 

832
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:23,500
longer walks, but right now, 
like, you emphasized. 

833
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,000
The book is the priority right 
now, but it's not going to be 

834
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,700
forever. 
I mean, I would be in trouble 

835
00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:32,500
for with myself care. 
I would be in trouble with my 

836
00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:38,100
family, you know, if I 
maintained the emphasis that I 

837
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:43,000
have been on my new book, The 
Joy Choice, then I would be 

838
00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:45,000
then. 
Then that would be overshadowing

839
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,000
these other really important 
things that I really do need and

840
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,400
care about. 
So I do the but it gets back to 

841
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,400
self-awareness, right? 
It sounds like what you're 

842
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,000
creating is also something that 
someone has to be really aware 

843
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,300
of is, when do you switch, 
right? 

844
00:52:00,300 --> 00:52:03,800
One is, when do you need to 
switch to this emphasis? 

845
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,800
And I think inherent what you're
talking about, is an 

846
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:13,400
appreciation for the need to be 
flexible to be flexible and to I

847
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:17,900
know that it's certain times of 
the year or in certain times of 

848
00:52:17,900 --> 00:52:21,600
life, you know, think about how 
different life is when someone 

849
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:25,500
has a child or when they move in
with someone or when they go 

850
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:28,200
back to school full-time. 
I mean, or if they develop a 

851
00:52:28,207 --> 00:52:31,100
chronic illness or if their 
partner, they become as a 

852
00:52:31,100 --> 00:52:34,300
caregiver. 
I mean, all of these Seasons, 

853
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:39,800
necessitate change in some way, 
and that's life right here, 

854
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:44,300
totally, totally. 
This may seem I'm like a left 

855
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:49,500
field question but what grade 
has been 14 year-old put you in 

856
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,500
what grade? 
Yeah, what is what's great? 

857
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:55,300
Is your son in. 
Um so he's going to start ninth 

858
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:59,800
grade, that's great. 
Okay, so I would imagine I don't

859
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,100
I'm not sure what kind of school
is in. 

860
00:53:01,100 --> 00:53:07,000
But do you have any thoughts or 
opinions towards the way school 

861
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,400
is structured for children? 
Like tomorrow's leaders. 

862
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,300
I feel like they're the school 
system that we are. 

863
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:18,100
Glee familiar with is an 
incredibly rigid structured 

864
00:53:18,100 --> 00:53:19,800
system, in which class has 
started. 

865
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,200
A certain time, you've got a 
very certain curriculum, it 

866
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,000
doesn't seem to bode well to 
people's innate, natural gifts 

867
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,400
versus those. 
That they have to work more on. 

868
00:53:30,700 --> 00:53:32,300
Do you have much of an opinion 
on that at all? 

869
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:40,900
You know, I I was raised in open
school if you will where, you 

870
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:43,200
know, I guess not that I guess 
it's not surprised. 

871
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,100
It's just surprising surprising 
that. 

872
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:51,700
I'm in this, the field and doing
the work that I'm doing, which 

873
00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:56,900
allowed me to kind of figure out
what my interests were and 

874
00:53:56,900 --> 00:54:01,500
strengths and stuff like that. 
So I do I do think, I mean, I'm 

875
00:54:01,500 --> 00:54:06,100
certainly not an educated 
researcher about education in 

876
00:54:06,100 --> 00:54:11,400
this way, but as a parent and 
just a consumer of information, 

877
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,200
I know there's that really 
popular too. 

878
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:19,100
Talk that talks about how 
education is, you know, the 

879
00:54:19,100 --> 00:54:23,300
system is, you know, killing 
learning and creativity and 

880
00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:26,400
Innovation. 
And I do think it's a shame that

881
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,900
things are as scripted as they 
are. 

882
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:40,300
Because, you know, but it's such
a systemic, big picture problem.

883
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,500
You know, I don't necessarily 
have an answer. 

884
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:46,500
I we We we were fortunate that 
we could have our son go to a 

885
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:52,900
school that did not. 
That was not like that because 

886
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:58,800
we felt it would enable him to 
better tap into motivation for 

887
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,200
Learning and that sort of thing.
What do you have? 

888
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,400
It sounds like you have a strong
opinion about that. 

889
00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:07,100
No, I'm honestly just very open 
to everybody stands on this 

890
00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:10,600
because we just had a kid, some 
trying to figure out, you know, 

891
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,000
I went through the standard 
Public School. 

892
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:18,800
And it was good for me for sure.
Like I mean, but I think that 

893
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:20,700
that system that I went through,
was it? 

894
00:55:20,700 --> 00:55:24,900
What led to the success that 
I've seen is just kind of like, 

895
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:28,900
very status quo and I feel like 
any time you have an opportunity

896
00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:34,300
to just really double down on 
kids, interests and strengths 

897
00:55:34,300 --> 00:55:36,900
and desires. 
I feel like that's, that's 

898
00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:39,300
always going to, you know, pay 
itself in dividends. 

899
00:55:39,300 --> 00:55:42,800
So I'm just curious for people 
that have parent special people 

900
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,500
that are Wanting to focus on 
their strengths. 

901
00:55:45,500 --> 00:55:48,400
Like you've talked about, you 
know, what your stance was on 

902
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,800
all that because I like I'm 
honestly just it's a selfish 

903
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,100
question. 
I'm just trying to learn myself 

904
00:55:52,100 --> 00:55:54,600
know and I would do the same 
thing. 

905
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,400
I'm very curious. 
You know, one thing I didn't 

906
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:01,500
know about was that I know some 
people talk about boys 

907
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:05,400
development being behind girls 
and I have a couple of friends 

908
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,100
who didn't start their kids in 
kindergarten when they're boys 

909
00:56:09,100 --> 00:56:11,600
were fired. 
They wait until they're six and 

910
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:16,100
I, you know, In retrospect, I 
think that's probably a great 

911
00:56:16,100 --> 00:56:17,300
idea. 
You know, everyone's different, 

912
00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:19,400
right? 
Like some kids might be 

913
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,500
insatiable and ready to start 
school, but that's the kind of 

914
00:56:23,508 --> 00:56:26,700
thing that I didn't know about 
when I first started. 

915
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:30,700
So, you know, I think that's 
kind of an interesting thought 

916
00:56:30,700 --> 00:56:35,400
and I've also heard people talk 
about the fact that schools and 

917
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,200
you know the sitting down all 
the time that girls do that 

918
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,800
better than boys, you know. 
And I don't know if that's true 

919
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,400
so I don't want to propagate 
Gate any false, you know, 

920
00:56:45,900 --> 00:56:49,100
truisms. 
I've just heard that from 

921
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:52,800
friends. 
And so, you know, it's 

922
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,300
interesting to consider whether 
certain systems sat may be girls

923
00:56:57,300 --> 00:56:59,900
or boys better up for success. 
I don't know if this has been so

924
00:56:59,908 --> 00:57:02,000
I'm sure it's been studied. 
I don't know what the answer is 

925
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,700
but you know, or does it make 
sense to start school later, you

926
00:57:06,700 --> 00:57:09,300
know, than earlier? 
You know. 

927
00:57:09,300 --> 00:57:12,900
So I think you're asking the 
right questions for sure. 

928
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,100
Yeah, I think two things, two 
very tangible things that I want

929
00:57:16,100 --> 00:57:18,300
to make sure that I'm able to 
do. 

930
00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:24,800
As a parent is simply raise my 
kids on land like have property 

931
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,500
that they can have room to, you 
know, play and grow and learn 

932
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:32,700
and just develop skill sets that
aren't really easily acquired 

933
00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:35,100
living in the city. 
That's that's one thing that 

934
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,200
really shaped my development, I 
think. 

935
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,700
So I want to be able to that 
same thing for my kids and then 

936
00:57:39,700 --> 00:57:42,800
also just simply taking them 
traveling like exposing them to 

937
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,200
different. 
Aunt, different communities, 

938
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,100
different people, different 
thought groups. 

939
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:49,200
Different, just different 
environments. 

940
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,300
I feel like that is a very 
tangible thing. 

941
00:57:51,300 --> 00:57:54,300
That makes a tremendous impact 
on their developing brains. 

942
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,800
Totally I think you're totally 
right. 

943
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:58,300
Awesome. 
Awesome. 

944
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:01,400
Well I am very excited about all
of you working on. 

945
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,800
I'm eager to learn more. 
What is the name of your book 

946
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,800
again? 
The Joyce, The Joy Choice. 

947
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,400
All right? 
And where do people go to find 

948
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,800
out more about that and just you
in general. 

949
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:14,000
Sure. 
My website which is I named 

950
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:19,300
Michelle Seger SE G AR.com. 
Do you have a social profiles as

951
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:23,400
well? 
You know, I'm on Twitter at 

952
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:27,500
Michelle Seeger and Linkedin but
that those are the two platforms

953
00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:30,800
that I'm focused on awesome. 
I will definitely link out to 

954
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,100
the book and the website. 
Make it easy for people to find 

955
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:34,900
you and just keep doing what 
you're doing. 

956
00:58:34,900 --> 00:58:39,400
I think you know, diving into 
what makes Unique Individuals 

957
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,200
tick, what contributes to their 
success in a sustainable. 

958
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:45,500
Able fashion is of Paramount 
importance. 

959
00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:46,800
So I think you're doing great 
work here. 

960
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,800
Well, thank you. 
And I thought you asked really 

961
00:58:50,100 --> 00:58:52,300
astute questions. 
I really enjoyed speaking with 

962
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:54,400
you, thank you so much. 
Thank you very much, Michelle, 

963
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,800
not keep in touch, and we'll 
talk soon. 

964
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:58,900
All right, sounds good. 
Bye.