Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto, Savage.com.
And today I've got special guest dr.
Greg Kelly on the line, he is The Man Behind a lot of the
formulation and research that takes place at narrow hacker
Collective. They're the ones that produce
the qualia supplement. It's a nootropic supplement.
But they've also got several other product lines, like asleep
line of focused, line, of vision line.
And it's one of the compass has been out in the neuro hacking
nootropic space before that was even popular before.
Packing and nootropics for really a thing.
So I kind of wanted to pull the curtain back on the history of
that. But we also dive deep into
anti-aging and how some of the compounds around anti-aging from
a sin oolitic standpoint, which is basically taking these cells
that need to die off and making them die off more efficiently
paves the way for room to have healthier sales take their
place. So we dove into quite a bit.
We do of into the nootropic range of the company.
Nero hacker Collective. And their quickly line of
products. We dive into longevity and sin a
lytx and what that is in certain compounds around that.
So we really kind of pull the curtain back on biohacking and
Longevity. So thoroughly enjoy the
conversation. I've got no doubt that you will
take something from it. So that further, Ado, and sit
back, relax and do the podcast with dr.
Greg Kelly Dr. Greg Kelly.
How are you sir? Very good.
Thanks for having me on today. I am excited to be chatting with
you. So I feel like you were in the
quote-unquote biohacking, longevity space before that
space became a space. Like it was, it's really popular
right now. Like people throw around the
term, biohacking really Loosely, but I feel like you've been
doing research in this realm for quite some time, right?
Yeah, I know for someone nature pratik, doctor by profession and
even when I was in nature, Pathak School in the early to
mid-90s, I guess what? Drove me, and I think much more
than many of my classmates. At the time was an idea.
What does Health look like? And how can we figure out the
shortcuts to get there rather than focus on what poor health
is? And you're trying to mediate
that. So I feel like most of my
professional career has been geared towards biohacking you
know, healthy In long before those were topical things, what
made you want to go? The route of the naturopath.
Anyways, I what was the Catalyst for you?
Taking that route in life. So it was completely selfish.
I was an officer in the Navy, in the 84 to 89.
I was active duty and had about it at the time, like, a year to
give my notice before I would be able to get out and my plan at
the time was just to be somewhat of a gypsy and travel around.
And when the backpack, see the world kind of enjoy life, in a
way, less constrained, than I've been able to up to that point,
and it had dawned on me that to really do that, and go to some
of the places I want to go to. I should be able to take care of
myself to some stomachs. And so I started on my own
studying herbal medicine yoga. A lot of things to kind of keep
myself healthier and what ended up happening in the process of
doing that, I stumbled upon the Nature Pathak professional
thought. Wow how cool they were already
teaching. Most of these things I've been
trying to stitch together on my own so that was it that was the
long story short and then I just really love the profession.
The education was fantastic and never never really got to do the
Gypsy thing like I initially planned.
Yeah just about to ask how the Gypsy things been going, I guess
you're probably still pretty well-traveled and just where
your research takes you, right? Yeah, and I did have a during
that time period, I had an opportunity to go and live
abroad in Thailand and to study there and I've traveled fairly
extensively but never done the like prolonged, you know, many,
many months. Backpacking thing that I that I
Was preparing myself to do when I started to learn some of this,
biohacking in one, Japanese information.
Nice nice. What is the, the formal
schooling look like for the naturopathic profession like, is
there like a Certain curriculum, that is generally followed and
expected there. How does that typically broken
down? Yeah, so there is a, I think I
would like dividing it into licensable, and, on licensed,
naturopathic doctor. So the licensable ones, the ones
that in States, like where I live in California and states,
where I practiced, like Connecticut to become license in
those States. There's a formal education
process and the way it was when I went to school was pretty much
it. Standard pre-med curriculum to
get into nature Pathak school. And then the program, they're
the first two years. Were relatively
indistinguishable from medical school.
And by that, I mean, we would take things like Anatomy
physiology biochemistry Radiology, like all the
background things, but what separates naturopathic medicine
is wanted Kinder than how we would approach healing people.
We would focus on herbs diet, lifestyle acupuncture, We call
it nature Pathak manipulation, but it would be very similar to
Chiropractic. So our modalities would have
been substantially different and then the training Zone.
Nature paths, really didn't have Hospital.
Some of that's changed. I know.
Now, some hospitals allow nature Pathak residence, but the way
our education work is, we call it a preceptorship, but just
think of an apprenticeship, you would spend about 2,000 hours in
an apprenticeship with varying nature paths that were already
in practice to better. Learn the trade is there pretty
good? Camaraderie amongst the nature
pathic. Doctors and those that are
falling more traditional Western medicine, or is there kind of
like a like a animosity there? I don't think there's much
animosity anymore, at least it would have dampened.
And in part, like, I know when I was first in school, there was,
I would say, more than animosity, a lack of
understanding. So at the time I was still do
Navy Reserves, wow, one weekend a month or, you know, sometimes
for two weeks a year as part of that.
And one of those two week things, I had an opportunity to
spend a week of it in like the medical part.
Part of a aircraft carrier. So a pretty big ship.
And I didn't experience any hostility by the MDS that were
on the ship. It was more just curiosity.
They didn't, you know, they didn't understand what nature
Pathak medicine was, and what I found at the time is medicine,
as you would know has its own lingo and if I communicated them
in that lingo then it was like oh this person you know they
know what they're talking about so I've never never personally.
Ernst it that said, I certainly know classmates have had big
chips on their shoulder that they didn't feel like they were
respected by other medical professions.
Yeah. Yeah.
That makes sense. I always try to ask people that
are coming from functional, traditional therapy, background
or naturopathic background. What that relationship has been
like because it's good to see that it's less hostile now.
I feel like the more knowledge out there from different
perspectives, that's just going to cause everyone's Health to
increase so that that's a good thing.
Yeah, and I remember, I was when I was first in practice, I
worked with Peter, d'adamo is a nature Pathak doctor and most
famous for around the blood type diet.
And at the time, we would get a fair number of patients
recommended to us from medical doctors.
And the gist of the story was fairly simple that they didn't
understand what he was doing. But they would see people with
the book and those people were doing really bowel with
complicated health issues. Commonly.
So they would say you know I don't know you know much of what
he does but you may want to check this person out.
So yeah, I think there's more openness now than there was done
but I think most people in the health profession legitimately
want to help people and often their limitation is what they
know and their tools. But I think the profession as a
whole tends to attract people that that legitimately want to
make a difference in their Patients lives.
Yeah, I completely agree and I feel like you know with going
the the nature Pathak routes having an emphasis on diet and
lifestyle, I mean that just that just makes sense.
Like if people are coming from a background of you know, disease
State and they focus on lifestyle and what they're
consuming nutritionally speaking.
As probably going to provide the biggest bang for the proverbial
Buck for, they're improving their health.
Well, I think for sure, and I think the limitation more going
way back in with them, these was just, they weren't they didn't
get a lot of Education in those things.
And part of that, just scarcity of time, right?
You can only learn so much. Even in the extensive time they
spend in their training, where nature paths.
We spent a lot more time on diet lifestyle exercise.
So, it became a, you know, much more viable tool for us to use.
We just had more knowledge and experience with it and I I'm
sure you've seen the same sometimes just finding kind of a
person's diet Kryptonite and getting them the coaching they
need to, you know, remove those things from their diet or shift
into other areas. Can just make profound
differences. Totally?
Are there any modalities that are commonly used in the nature
path realm that that you don't really subscribe to like
acupuncture Chiropractic Care? Like, is there anything that you
don't personally find much benefit to our?
Do you think everything has its place?
So I would be of the opinion that everything has its place
that but there's certain things that I'm more skilled in and
others you know, not particularly skilled in like
Homeopathy as an example. We would train in that, I like
my personal experience with Homeopathy is it seems to work
really well, sometimes for pets and young children, and not so
great as we get older, right? So not a supply, the time
someone's pretty worn down by life, you know, homeopathic
medicine in my A minute experience, didn't seem to do
much for them, where a two-year-old sometimes it would
be almost complete shift within, you know, 10 minutes of taking a
homeopathic medicine. So I think a lot has to do with
context, take at least to me, right?
Like, there's certain tools that are better used for certain
circumstances and then at one point, I remember is an actual
and be and he was would have considered himself an
Integrative Medical and d. And at the time, His idea was,
what I would say. Just throw the kitchen sink at
someone. Right, and my idea of integrated
medicine always been more like a puzzle.
Like what's what's the one high-leverage piece that we
couldn't cook can put in place for this particular person?
And for some people that maybe, you know, movement or exercise
or someone else, it may be manipulation or acupuncture for
someone else, it may be more of a mind-body thing.
That's something like an LP or hypnosis or got it.
Jury would be a better fit for. So that's to me that idea of
almost, you know, I helped detective, we know what for this
particular person are going to be the high leverage areas.
Do you like a probably have a pretty broad array of clientele
base? But you have like a general
demographic. That is your most typical
Avatar. When it comes to patients coming
in. Well, I don't see patients
actively anymore. Currently, I just work as the
director of research into our development for a company called
neuro hacker Collective. But when I was in practice, Is
it was it was very diverse everything from people that were
healthy and wanted to get in better shape to people with, you
know, almost at me hard to treat disease or condition you can
name. So it ran the gamut honestly and
I think one of the, the things I remember, you know, that was
interesting is occasionally, I would get a teenager.
That was the driving force, they'd be healthy and super
concerned about eating better and they dragged the whole
family in, you know. So those are always fun.
But when people were Health you wanted to Get healthier for the
most, you know, personally satisfying for me, you know, to
see someone that was that interested to be proactive know,
for sure. I think when you get some of its
younger and wanted to be proactive, they're trying to
it's hard though. Like when you're the younger
member of the family trying to sway, you know, your parents,
your uncle, your aunt, your grandparents to get healthier
like they're often times set in their ways and that's a very
hard hard cart to get moving so to speak.
Yeah, for sure, I think change is always challenging.
So, you know, I think I gave and going back to, when I was in
nature Pathak student, the vast majority of my classmates had
had some health issue, and a naturopathic doctor had helped
them overcome. Right?
So they'd that was there, you know, often than their focus is
whatever, modality worked for them, where I was somewhat
unique in that. I like I said, I was just trying
to learn all these things to stay healthy.
So you know so I hadn't Been on healthy.
So because of that I think there's like my opinion it for
is likely no one way that's always going to work for
everyone. There are certain principles
that I think tend to like routinely show up, if you can
get those foundations in place, then generally good things
happen. Yeah.
Totally agree. I think there's like the people
that have some type of ailment. It's always seems like a burden
at the time but it's often times like Like a, there's a silver
lining there because it makes them that much more motivated to
find the resolution where so many people that don't have a
glaring ailment, they often just keep doing the status quo and
they just kind of slowly that leads to their demise overtime.
And a gradual fashion where someone if they've gotten like a
like chronic inflammation or a very acute issue that able to
kind of be more motivated to tackle that and resolve it.
Well, I think that was even like true for me in a sense.
It was a time in the Navy. The I was out of school so I
wasn't on it ship and I was in the Navy, we call the boq but
think of it like you know like the Navy hotel for officers on
the base and one morning I just woke up and my back was super
stiff and it was you know fairly painful just to walk from my bed
to the bathroom. Never mind, go to class that
day. And so later in the day, I went
to the Base clinic and they just said, oh, you know, here take
these muscle relaxers and at the time it just struck me as
Really, that's the solution. You, there's nothing more here
and I've always been an Avid Reader and new the base
librarian. So, I went to the base library
that day and found a book on you, no more luck.
Holistic back here, right? That talked about yoga and
Chiropractic and a lot of movement types of things, and
that was actually what triggered my interest in it, right?
So it was not a like a lingering how thing, but something that
all of a sudden got my attention that, wow.
I love that you know that I could raise the bar a lot in my
knowledge in this area. Totaling you have been doing a
lot of like proactive joint work to improve my knee Mobility.
Following bin Patrick's guidelines but I've also kind of
dabbled in yoga and that's been beneficial for me.
I've not ever really had much luck with chiropractic care, but
to be honest, I've never really probably give it its full, you
know, opportunity to have an impact on me.
I've tried a few and it just never really been successful,
but I'm assuming you've, you've seen yourself Will have
tremendous benefit with chiropractic care.
I like from Timmy, most things are mixed bag.
So, I've seen both, I've seen the like almost one adjustment
of something that freed up an area that had been, you know,
impacting, you know, blood flow nerve, sensation to a tissue and
that one adjustment that found that has made a big difference.
I've also seen, you know, number of times where you'll do an
adjustment, have someone walk around the clinic and they come
back and your reassess and everything that was out before
you adjusted it back out again. And so that's why I think often,
you know, Chiropractic as a profession, their bread and
butter is having people come in repeatedly because they're it's
it's more managing that then maybe corrective like as an
example. I have a rather dad for his
work, he does food sales, so he's in a car.
I think so, he just his wear and tear is on even on his body,
right? Because he's using his right
side, you know, for the gas and the brake and and when that's
the case Chiropractic, I think and other muscular
musculoskeletal interventions can help make things more
manageable, but you know that the cause is never being removed
from the picture so to speak. Yeah, I'd be curious to get your
take on this. So, with you coming from a
biohacking background, but also this is Naturopathic back down
and wanting to fix the root issue.
What is your opinion of this gaining momentum of using
peptide stem cells and all of these things?
Locally for a point of information like, you know,
injecting stem cells into a inflamed knee for instances that
going to have a net positive or you think that's kind of just
putting a Band-Aid over a deeper issue.
I think that's a complicated question and even the getting to
the idea of the cause I think on its own is mysterious and
complicated. So going back to that time I you
know, was a naturopathic student and spent the week, you know, on
a ship with their medical staff nature.
Pass at the time would have said oh we're all about finding.
And treating the cause and what I found interesting at the time
asthma was a big, you know, issue for some people on this
ship just because of Welding soldering chemicals, you name it
and the medical doctors felt like, you know, the asthma
medications. They were doing.
We're treating the cause in the sense they were, you know,
causing the airway muscles to be more relaxed, right?
So their idea of the cause we just different.
And I think each health profession would have somewhat
different Notions of the cause, and I think sometimes things can
be improved or resolved without actually knowing Cause because
Klaus causes are complicated. So, you know so I think it's
always useful to try to find the cause but I guess my message
would be that whatever you're identifying the cause is in the
context of your Paradigm of what's causing things and
different. Paradigms can still get great
results with identifying vastly different causes makes total
sense talking about Nero hacker Collective because that's is the
company behind. Is it coyly old?
Pronounce it right? Qualia is how we say it.
Yeah, that inquired. Oh sorry.
Go ahead. No movies in choir is it's a
word out of almost philosophy of mind, but probably would stand
for this subjective experience of something.
So, you know, like if you and I would eat the same identical
meal, your quality of it might be different, right?
Like your individual experience a bit so we were founded as a
company. Very focused on helping people,
improve. Move their experience of their
life and performance. And when do they company come to
me? We were founded in 2015.
Okay, because I'm seeing the the quality of supplements, you
know, early early on, like, when they were first starting out.
And at the time, I mean, at least least in my perspective,
that was pretty much the only nootropic blind supplement that
I had ever seen in the market. So I feel like y'all were
definitely on The Cutting Edge of that as an industry.
Yeah, I think, yeah, we wouldn't have been the first new crop of
company, but I think we were one of the first that really
married, you know, like a sophisticated formula, well,
thought out and the ability to get it in front of people's eyes
on social media, and other places.
One of our, our Founders Danielle Smock and burger.
I know, when the original quality of product launch was
also on a lot of podcasts. Because of that are our product.
I think compared to most startups got, you know, widely
known very quickly, which was great for the company.
Yeah so what sets it apart from other nootropic Blends that they
like what differentiates it from the competition.
So I think what, when I think of our hacker Collective and the
qual, your line, one of the things we do that, maybe not
unique, I'm not sure there could be other companies doing it, but
none that I know of. So when we put together a
product we, you know, we read the research, you try to make,
you know, smart decisions on what to put in how much to put
in. But, you know, I think many
companies do that, but what separates us out is before, then
we would actually We move the product into selling it to
customers will do some type of small study on it to make sure
that that blend of ingredients actually works and does the
things that we were hoping it would do.
And, you know, you would think that that would be normative and
the supplement world. But it really is.
Yeah. So that that I think sets us
apart and then the other thing and this is more about how we
understand science is we think of ourselves as a complex
systems Science model. So our approach to understanding
things is I get paid into that, is this idea that the body is a
complex system and it's constantly learning and
adapting. And that filter sometimes, when
you look at studies that filter, your takeaway would change with
that Paradigm as opposed to a more you know, like reductionist
mainstream type of science perspective.
So I think that separates us out as well and your merely doing a
lot of the formulation and research within the company or
what are your primary rule. Yeah, so I'm basically the main
person when it comes to new product development.
So I you know spend most of my days reading studies,
synthesizing information trying to teach other people you know
about our products or you know or health in general you know.
So quite a bit of Writing would be a big part of what I do as
well like blog content for our website.
Nice. And I must say I like I just
proved your site before we jumped on this podcast and I
love how you have everything laid out such that you can click
on the product with a DWI town of the formula and why you chose
those ingredients and what they do from a biochemical standpoint
which I think is much more involved than I've seen on any
other supplement website. One of the things this was I
guess when you think of, you know, like mission for a
company, it was really important for us to be transparent about.
Then this goes back to the founding and the couple of
Founders. And so, one of the things I know
that I do whenever we launch a new product is, I'll do a fairly
Long blog where I'll talk just a bit about the product, but then
for every ingredient, I'll talk about that ingredient.
Why we chose the dose we did. So we try to be super
transparent and you know, it's possible.
Someone would say oh well I think this ingredient would have
been better or this dose. May have been better, which I
get right. There is different sometimes
understandings and opinions. But I think again, we're
somewhat unique and that we try to be super transparent with our
customers. Is this is why we did what we
did. No, I think it's great.
I think having that full transparency is most certainly
the way to go. I think, in the very beginning,
it was just the original. A product and then since then
you have come out these different lines like one, you
know, for Sleep specifically 14, you know, Focus.
So when it comes to these different skus, how would one
kind of go through this, the roadmap, like, just based off of
what their needs, primarily our kind of picking the product
accordingly. Yeah, so we tended to focus
mostly on two areas brain and Longevity being the main to.
So you, you mentioned the Final product was a nootropic, right?
So that was a comprehensive product for the brain, so it was
intended to do. Focus memory, you know,
basically upgrade the brain across a lot of areas.
Focus is a simpler product still a brand product but it's really
much more geared towards that like attention alertness
concentration. So, the way I tend to think of
those two nootropics is in the course of Day or a week.
You'd probably experienced some largely the same in the over a
month to two months quality of mine, which is what the original
product you mentioned would be that when you'll get a lot more
benefits, it's just got a lot more nutrition for the brain and
then either products or just geared towards other Solutions.
So you mentioned sleep. So that's a product called
quality and and when I design that I actually, you know,
categorized it as a nighttime nootropic because unlike a A lot
of Sleep Products. So the classic sleep product,
you know, often melatonin and and what I would think of a
sedative herbs you would take maybe 30 60 minutes before bed
with the idea that it's going to cause you to fall asleep kind of
thing. And our product call you
tonight, that would be in the Sleep category is designed to
take it dinner time like three to four hours before and the
reason is think of physiology almost like as a, like a
toddler, right? You have I feel waking up in the
morning, you know, cortisol goes up all these kind of day
hormones and Dana are transmitters flood the system to
make it so we can go from 0 to 60 and be you know, alert and
get into our day. The flip side of that is as
things start to get dark, we have almost those things are
received and the nighttime hormones and neurotransmitters
that to have their time in the Sun so to speak.
And so we have, you know, fundamentally two different
physiologies, like a day and a night time one.
And so most Nootropics would be things that you would take, you
know, often to start your day. So, while your night was
conceived as a nighttime, nootropic something that you
would take to start your night and to support them, the
building of melatonin and the what's called hyperarousal.
One of the like basically one of the reasons people have trouble
winding down and getting good quality, sleep is their nervous
system is just to round up by so dampening down hyperarousal.
So, while you night was designed for that and at the The kind of
the pleasant side effect of that is people generally sleep a lot
better. Totally let's dive into some of
the weeds, I want to kind of pull the curtain back on these
compounds specifically and like as you're formulating, these
what, what compounds get you excited?
Like what are you diving into from a research standpoint?
When it comes to these different ingredients, that is really just
pushing the needle on the research and having a profound
impact on human longevity and just overall productivity.
I think that the like, I think going into like that longevity
and healthy aging that would be, you know, product we call
Quality analytic that we launched June of 2022.
So end of June 20 22. So almost 10 months ago and seen
a lytx. I think are super interesting
area for healthy aging. So maybe we could spend a few
minutes on that. Yeah, certainly, yeah.
So just some background on conceptual.
Ali, how aging is thought about. So there's this concept called
the Hallmarks of Aging. So think of Hallmark's in this
case, meaning characteristic. So if you looked at flies worms
mice, you know, all the way up to humans.
There's certain shared characteristics that age of
organisms have in common. So these are things like our
telomeres becoming short DNA becoming damaged a process
called the top a gene or not working as well.
You had mentioned it. Summation earlier like
inflammation is often how it's thought up that chronic low
level inflammation, that creeps up year after year, decade after
decade, right? So there's these dirt 12
different characteristics and one of them is called cellular
senescence. So, cellular senescence.
What that means is that, and think of, like, one of the
things, I think that's important to understand is we're
constantly, birthing and having cells go through their life
cycle and die off. So, completely normal and
different tissues. That's going to occur at
different rates. So, as an example, the neurons
in our brain, they're pretty much good for a lifetime.
Like once they're done, we don't burp, new ones and the ones that
are there. Ideally, you know, don't die but
things like that tissue. The average cell in fat tissue
lives a life of about eight years muscle tissue, it's about
15 years. So all these different tissues
cells are constantly being born, living, and dying off and the
process. Of dying off is called
apoptosis. It's a from a Greek word that
basically means falling off in the sense of, you know, leaves
or fruit falling off of a plant. So like that's that's it's
apoptosis, sometimes they'll call it programmed, cell death,
right? Like basically a cell decides to
go through this this falling off process.
So what happens in aging is there's a third third type of
cell, right? So you have healthy cells that
can make, you know, new cells. You have cells that have lived
their life and gone to apoptosis, but when cells gets
stressed in certain ways, they can become what's called
senescent. And what that means is
senescence, I'll won't give birth to new cells, but it also
tends to be Frozen and it won't have gone through this falling
off process. And so What happens as we get
older? Is that the amount of senescent
cells in different tissues continues to creep up higher and
higher and one of the big paradigms within the longevity
Community. Is this idea that a big part of
why we experience on healthy aging is accumulation of
cellular damage and senescent cells appear to be if not the
main one of the main reasons that contribute to aging as
Damage accumulation, powered. I'm so the solution for that is
something that the Mayo Clinic and Scripps Institute of Aging
coin. The term of a see, no lytic for
and see, analytics are things that when we take them they
would help fundamentally convince the cell to unfreeze
itself and then finally go through this falling off process
so that it can be removed from our tissues.
And when Cena lytx have been used in animal studies, You see,
like tissue Rejuvenation healthier aging or so.
I think to me, that's one of the more exciting like edge of
science type things. So, the Cena lytx, basically
convinced these damage chose to go ahead and die.
Is there a really good solution for generating new cells beyond
what the body just does naturally?
Because there are two equivalent to that in the Spectrum as well.
Yeah, so the so what would naturally happen again, going
back to this idea, what constantly, you know, we're
placing new solid. So stem cells would be the
resident stem cells in the tissue would produce new cells.
And, you know, even so stem cells are all therapies or kind
of a different thing and you touched on earlier.
But even in an old person stem cells are still capable of
making new progenitor cells, basically new Offspring.
If they were Then tissues would shrink shrink shrink shrink.
So and then one of the things, maybe you'd be interesting
because I know your background is, you know, bodybuilding and
exercise. So one of the things I thought
was really interesting in animals, so, you know, have you
heard the term anabolic resistance?
So, in animals so anabolic, we just didn't just for the
audience that anyone doesn't know, is this idea that as
organisms get older, the same anabolic Trigger or signal, so
lifting weights, or more protein wear resistant to it.
Instead of having that anabolic response, like, creating new
fibers, and better muscle growth wear resistant to that.
So almost akin to insulin resistance that same idea.
So, in what they've seen now, in a couple different animal
studies is that in An older animals that a big reason that
they have this antibiotic resistance is because of the
senescent cells that have accumulated in muscle tissue.
And if you can prune those away with C, no latex, then it
essentially turns those older muscles into much younger
versions of the muscle. They respond much more like a
young animal for the same anabolic trigger.
So I think Timmy seen a Linux cover a lot of bases.
The like, One of the, I think the three main cell types that
see analytics originally were thought to influence the most
one or fibroblast. So if I were blasted just the
style that dominates all are connected tissues.
So you know, think of joint space, you know, adipose tissue
under under our skin. So, you know, just widespread
connected tissue is everywhere and seen.
It's enough. Fibroblasts are just one of the
cell types that seem to be most prone to become senescent.
So, conversely doing things to prune away the the senescent
ones automatically, then tends to replace those with new
healthy versions. The same would be true for
immune cells. So in regards to Center Lennox,
as a therapy is this is this pretty new territory or is this
something that's been in research for quite some time and
just now surfacing. So the even the idea of see, no
latex that was coined in 2015 by mail.
One Scripps researchers. So it's new.
There's been a number of animal studies and then there's quite a
few umin studies that are ongoing.
So clinicaltrials.gov would be the site where trials are
pre-registered. So like by certain is an example
is one of the Bots to be one of the more powerful compounds that
can help convince these senescent cells to prune
themselves away to go. Through this following offers
I'll process and last time I looked there was ten Newman
studies indexed in clinicaltrials.gov, some almost
complete others, just recruiting patients, it's called by Satan
by certain FIA seti. N some tried it also called the
certain so that's one of the more like intriguing seen.
A lot of compounds. There are many known activities
that can have a similar effect on senescent cells like cold
plunging. Instances that having a similar
mechanistic effect to, you know, converting you know, white
adipose tissue to beige fat in a similar manner.
You know, most of that just hasn't been explored and in part
it's because short of doing a tissue biopsy, it's hard to.
There's no like biomarker or blood test, you could do to
sail. Like, you know, this
intervention, you know, increase or decrease in essence, all do,
right? You have to almost look in the
tissue, but what is Be true. Is that what you see in
research? Is this idea of stress induced
premature senescence. So the general idea there is if
you had cells in a test like a culture and you know let those
cells divide over and over after about 50 divisions, they'll hit
a limit where they won't divide anymore.
They'll become senescent that's that's called replicative
senescence has to do with something called the hayflick
limit and telomeres. But what would also Happen is
way in advance without limit if you stressed that cell culture
with extremes of temperature or ionizing radiation or, you know,
other things that would cause stress like, nutrient,
depletion, you'd also cause senescence.
So my suspicion is that almost anything that causes a lot of
cellular stress is going to create more senescent cells,
where things we do to make cells more resilient and the same
things. Is that make, you know, our
whole body more resilient tend to make solids.
More resilient would make it so that they're going to be able to
withstand that stress and not become senescent.
So like exercise would be an example.
It's one of the few things I've seen studied several times to
help prevent cellular senescence, but these other bio
hacking techniques that are widely used by intuition would
be that many of those would be found to be similar to exercise,
where a hermetic goes. Would toughen up the cells so
they're able to with And these stresses that they're exposed to
and kind of shrug them off so that they don't have to become
senescent. Gosh, okay.
That makes total sense. So healthy Homedics stressors,
not necessarily chemical stressors but anything that you
can do from like an activity standpoint like the weight
training at the cold plunging, extreme temperature.
Modulation there to kind of weed out the weak, so to speak.
Yeah, and I think I'm like, let's take exercise again so you
know. Making senescent cells
completely natural, right? So if you have if you were
coaching a twenty-year-old right and you had them doing, it
really intense exercise thing they're going to make some
senescent cells, right? Completely natural the same.
If you were coaching a 50 or 60 year old and had them do that
same intense exercise. But what would be different in
the young person? If we look into their muscle
tissue a week later, the senescent cells would have, you
know, come in gone up quite a bit over the first 24 to 48
hours were Getting tissue Rejuvenation and then they would
have been cleared out. But what you would see in that
older organism, they're going to still be hanging out two weeks
later months later, right. They clearance of them is the
issue and part of that is the immune system part of its other
things with aging. But that's that's the idea of
why. I see no lytx might be super
promising as we get older because the natural things that
should remove these and that do and young people as we age, just
don't seem to work as well. So what is, The definition of
sin Linux specific. Is it just any compound of that
removes the senescent cells? Yeah, so there's like that's a
really good simple way to think about it, the more like
mechanistic way is senescent cells have certain
characteristics but one of them is they resist apoptosis.
They resist this bike like falling off process and what
they would say is like scalp scalp Network.
So senescence cell anti-apoptotic Pathways.
So what they do is they exploit these cellular Pathways to
linger in tissue. So what seen a Linux by
definition? Chin are things that help
normalize those scap Pathways that they, essentially send
signals to cells, and then the cells as oh, I get it, like, I
should tip the balance. So, instead of resisting falling
off, I'm in favor of it. And that tends to only happen on
cells that are resisting a pop-top, a pop concert.
So a lot of things like the by certain I mentioned, they tend
to toughen up cells. They tend to be like something
that's a hermetic stress polyphenols in general.
Often are like that. That so, you know, for healthy
cells, they toughen them up and for cells that are resisting
apoptosis but should go through it.
They tend to tip the balance gacha gacha.
And most of the research being done on this is looking at like,
so it'll, it'll put the cells in this environment and then take a
tissue sample to see how many remain or how is it typically
done. Yeah.
So the way they would usually do is say like in a like a mouse
study. Yes, they would do tissue
biopsies after doing a scene Olynyk and see what And in those
tissues and it's been pretty profound evidence that shows
that they're seeing quite a bit of these cells fall off.
Yeah. And then the other thing is just
then that idea of tissue, we do have a nation and the analogy
that I often like to give. And this is because our head of
marketing is, is big into gardening.
So at one time I was trying to make it so she could understand
it. So the idea is to think of a
plan, right? It's completely normal, you know
that a plant periodically would have some you know, leaves that
we become damaged yellow and Plan, those leaves should
ideally, eventually fall off the plant.
Right? So that new growth can take
their places. And if they don't, then what
ends up happening is some of the nutrients that would be best
used elsewhere in the plant. They end up getting used by
these damaged leaves damaged leaves also can spread that
damage to other leaders, right? So, you know, one yellowing
leaves can become too too can become for right, it can
eventually harm the whole plant. So Garden is then thrown away
things like a Starts to Yellow. A good Gardener will
periodically prune it away, which then frees up those
resources makes room for New Growth and creates like, you
know, an overall healthier plant.
And so, when I think of see, no lid X and senescent cells, like
that's the analogy I use, right? We're like no matter what age we
can all make some yellow leaves. The difference between a 20 year
old and Mia you know just over 60 is that I'm going to have a
lot more of that if I don't get Help pruning them off.
They're just going to gradually accumulate cash.
Yeah, it makes sense that like the analogy for sure.
Is there a like a point at which too much of these compounds
create some adverse effect, like too much starts to damage the
healthy cells like the going back to the plant analogy, you
know, you want to prune it, but you want to say, when a bush
hog, the entire plant down like they're the Tipping Point.
They're all right. You know, my default is that
that there's generally always going to be the case for almost
anything That too much good as no good kind of idea.
So, I do, you know, the yerkes-dodson curve is that ever
come up for you? I am not familiar.
Enlighten me. So your keys to your keys and
Dodson were two researchers from about 100 years ago, but it just
think of like, a, something that looks somewhat like a bell
curve, right? Like a upside-down U and so,
what, like, there's certain things that, like, what you
would say is their dose dependent.
Meaning, you know, if if you double the Amount, you get twice
the benefit, you know, and you double it again.
You get even more better for, right?
It kind of just goes off like a straight line and then there's
other things that you know, the hormetic idea, right?
Like there. It's more like a curve, right?
Like there's you know, Goldilocks Amo like a just right
amount of something where you get the best response and too
little or too much are equally. Problematic potentially and my
bias is that most things, you know, many more than probably we
realized I'll into that yerkes-dodson hermetic type of
curve. Where.
Yeah, there's there's just right amount.
Now, there could be a pretty wide range of what that is, and
it's going to be variable by the person, but I think exercise is
a classic example, right? Like so, you know, one of the
mistakes I made when I was in the Navy is, you know, by
circumstances where I would sleep deprived, just being on
the ship and standing watches. My circadian rhythm.
Body clock were messed up because often I was doing
rotating ship work. Nutrition.
Definitely could have been a lot better, because I had to eat
whatever in a be food was. And, you know, working, you
know, sometimes 12 14 hours a day.
Having, you know, four or five hours window for sleep.
There wasn't much window to get much exercise, right?
So, most of what I think of, as the foundational, things for
hell, we're like hard resources for me to get hold of at that
time, right? So, you know, in that that
context, you know, I think of that is Multi stress problem, so
doing something else that might be hormetic.
You know when I'm well-rested that might have been a Tipping
Point to just be disastrous at that point, right?
So you know I think context always matters and exercises is
a good example is. So at that point to try to
mitigate all these other things. I exercised the crazy amount
when I had free time, right? I would I lived about 10 miles
from the base. I would, you know if we were in
Port I would often. Bicycle in and out of work.
Sometimes even park my bike, you know, off like a mile from the
ship on base and, you know, run that last mile either swim or do
something at lunch. Sometimes a pickup basketball,
game, try to go to the gym after like home, right?
So crazy amount of exercise and at the time, like I never felt
like I got great responses, but I put all this time into
exercising and I was in good shape, you know, compared to
most needy people, but I never had profound.
Also grow things like that and part of it I think is I would
just over training constantly in a context where I also wasn't
getting enough sleep and prioritizing these other things.
So I guess long story show would see?
No lytx, I think of them the same way, right?
We don't like just like with exercise, you want to do it and
then recover from it. See analytics, I think of the
same, right? So the most common way to
approach, see no Linux is something that's been termed
hit-and-run dosing. So you do You know, these
compounds and fairly high doses for, you know, two sometimes
three days a month and then you take a big rest before you would
do your next cycle and again going back to that, you know,
pruning metaphor, right. A good Gardener is not going to
prune their plant every day if they did, they'll kill.
Are you want to prune it periodically?
And then how it have a chance to recover.
So, long story short, that would be the way that we recommend.
You do see analytics and that's the way they've been In study
and resources that you would do a fairly high dose of them, but
just for this really brief period of time and then give the
tissues ample time to rejuvenate between that dose in your next
cycle. Yeah, that makes total sense.
And in the yard using some of these in the product line, as
well. Yeah, we have our product called
qualia seen Olynyk and it comes in a box and it's got a blister
pack with 12 capsules and our base recommendation is you just
do six capitals. Eggs, each day today's at some
point during the month. So for me, I take it the first
weekend of a month and that's it.
I don't you know, worry about it until the next month rolls
around. Gotcha.
And when it comes to y'all's product line, specifically, I'm
assuming you'll have a higher end products, a more expensive
part of than most other supplements out there and I'm
assuming a lot of that increased cost of just from the vast
amount of research that you're doing in the quality of the
ingredients. Points of compounds you're
using. Yeah, that's a big part of it in
a part is sometimes to get this study does just that the
ingredient costs are a lot more. So I've seen a, you know, a
couple other products. So I going back to that bank
compound by certain, you know, so if you were to go to the way
that's being used in human studies is basically 20
milligrams per kilogram of body weight.
So to get a scene oolitic, do she have to take a, you know, a
large amount of it. It and, you know, I'll see
sometimes other products and will be 100 milligrams.
Total by this like well that would be good for like someone
that weighed 12 pounds. Yeah.
Right. So that's part of it too.
I like to use the study doses of often multiple ingredients that,
you know, we feel that's delivers more value because I
think the poorest value something is when you buy
something. It doesn't do what you wanted to
do, totally and with regards to supplements, there's a lot of
smoke and mirrors at there and a lot of companies come into the
market and just throwing something together.
Put a sticker on there and put it down on Amazon.
Do y'all have like a third party testing for a quality assurance?
And to know there's no banned substances in there anything
like that? Yeah, so it depends on which we
do. Third party like testing for
quality measures for all of our ingredients, right?
To make sure that Ingredients, what, you know, you know what,
we have on the label that is standardized to the right amount
of the active compound, but in terms of, like, NSF would be,
like a third party thing that often will test things for
reassurance for an athlete. So we do that not NSF, we use a
different. There's three main, informed
choice, and it's f&b CSG. I think is the third one that
all, you know, offer that service.
So we do that for qual, your mind.
I don't think we've done it for other products.
And part just that market like the athlete high-level athlete
Market, that needs things to go through one of those before they
could take. It has just not been our Niche.
That said there's we don't use anything.
So whadda would be the world anti-doping Association.
They come out with a updated list, every couple of years, we
don't use anything that would ever be on the water list.
Nice. Yeah, because I compete in
natural bodybuilding. They've got a super exhausted
van. A substance list I'm going to
you know take your stuff. No that's been at least the the
original formula has gone through informed choice so I can
take that back to worry about it.
And I think it's the BC SG. Well I'm my acronym might be
wrong but I think that's the one we use for call your mind.
Nice, very cool. Well what else is in the
pipeline for you? What's get you excited know that
everything that you're doing right now for an anti-aging
standpoint. But there's anything else that
you've also been dabbling in here.
Lately, we have been doing a lot of research in the area that I
would guess you think of it as pain and inflammation but you
know mostly in that like so an area that I think Jimmy is super
interesting. Goes back into that.
You know like recovery is for exercise, right?
So you know some 61 I mentioned that I was on the north side of
60 so there's compared to the 25 year old me that that crazy
amount of exercise. I would tend to get you know
more like pain, muscle pain, soreness joint pain if I did
something crazy intense and then that can prevent me from getting
back to things aggressively as I'd like, Or making the games
over time that I still want to have at this point in my life.
So that idea of, you know, are they things that you can take
that would alleviate some of that post exercise, you know
soreness pain and allow you to make games faster.
It's an area. I've been super interested in
and that I'm working on. We've also been spending a bit
of time on looking at maybe some of the other Hallmarks of Aging
so you know. Are potentially things that you
could include in your diet say like in a degree and rank as an
example that may better support stem cells or t.
The mirrors that type of thing. So those are the two areas that
I've been mostly focusing my research on and then most of my
writing lately has been on Deck brain health and that's because
come June end of June 20, 23 will be launching a new product
called quality of symbiotic. That's a gut brain.
Rain powder. So it will be a combination of
Prebiotic fibers probiotics. Something called post biotics
and then fermented foods. And in our like, you know,
pre-launch study on that we recruited, people, that had GI
issues and made a big impact and like five common bucket areas of
GI areas. So that one, we're all like, I
know our team super excited to have that available.
Yeah, that is very exciting. What's your take on oil is
particularly vegetable oils. Have you done much research on
that and they're supposed impact on overall inflammation and
metabolic health. Yeah.
What's up? I'm fairly knowledgeable and it.
I think so. I tended to fall to the like an
idea of quality, right? Like so let's not you know, just
throw something. Under the bus like the quality
of something, they make a big difference and then you know,
the other piece would be, you know, you and I might
genetically be vastly different, right?
Like the diet that you Excel on may or may not work as well for
me, right? You never know until you run
that experiment. So the By getting back to oils.
I can just tell you what I do, right?
I eat a lot of avocados. If you know, I cut open an
avocado when I see, you know any like Browning areas.
I have those away and throw them out and profitable.
Throw the whole avocado because right now you're starting to get
that brown in your seek some oxidation some rancidity, right?
So what oils I think it's super important to eat great quality
ones. You know, if there's any
indication it's damaged, don't even run the experiment idiot
like you better just getting it. Cam in all of the diet and
things, I tend to you know, consume a lot of oils.
I'm a big, you know, pasture butter and you know, olives
avocados, you know knots things like that would be plant sources
of healthy oils, heavy whipping cream, you know, full fat
yogurt. I like that.
You know, that see that heavy cream on the top.
So I'm definitely not that go back.
I don't personally We use, you know, much that would be in the
refined vegetable oil category. I tend to cook with coconut oil
or butter. Yeah, fuck the refined,
vegetable oils. They're all pretty much rancid.
Anyways, like they go through a deodorization process so that
you can't smell the rancidity component there.
But I feel like if that was not the case, we wouldn't want to
consume them because they would wouldn't be to get it past her
nose. So I feel like those things
would all make sense to avoid for sure.
Yeah. And I think, you know, with
there's lots of things that if, you know, things similar to that
like deodorizing weren't done, you know, the be enough tastes
and odors we wouldn't eat them, right?
That's the skill of the modern Ultra processed food companies,
right? They do a skillful job of
masking or eliminating all these things that we would be
disinclined to eat if we actually tasted them.
Totally totally speaking of sleep Parks you Earlier, do you
have a stance on melatonin specifically like people do
often times supplement with that quite heavily?
Is that something that's going to have a detrimental effect on
their own natural production of melatonin?
And it's quite possible. I mean, melatonin somewhat.
Interesting, most things that are in that, like, you know,
neurotransmitter neurohormone hormone, the analogy I use is
signal-to-noise, right? So there's, there's something I
never learned this in medical school.
I was in a psychology textbook, believe it or not.
Are called the hooks. We have our law and hook and we
were were 218, 1800s, researchers.
But the gist of it. Like so the analogy would be
imagine you go into a completely dark closet and now you Light
One Candle, right? Like big difference now, imagine
you go into that same closet but there's already 99 and those lit
and you'll let one more light, one more, right?
You maybe noticed almost no difference, right?
So the one candle like that unit is actually irrelevant.
It's the Apportionable change in something, right?
That creates that signal that response, right?
So, Most of our like most neurotransmitters hormones, you
name it. Work on receptors, that are
outside our of ourselves and I think of those as the ears and
eyes of ourselves right in a simple sense and my intuition is
the same principle holds throughout, right?
It's that signal to noise, right?
Proportional change is how change is detected by?
It's not, you know, did we Light One Candle?
It's the contact like was the noise level really loud or Was
it soft, right? You know, if we whisper in a
quiet room, will hear it if we Whispering allowed restaurant?
Probably not. So melatonin my personal bias is
when I think it's a great thing that helps a lot of people, but
when I was working more directly with patients, I went with a
much more physiological dose when I did use it.
So you know, 300 micrograms, instead of 3 mg, as an example.
Like when you get to, you know, 35 mg, you two pretty big dose
that said. And I you know, compared to most
things I just haven't seen in the research - adaptations like
often what happens if you give something in an amount way
higher than what we need. You just see.
So again the analogy would be if we play loud music all the time.
Well, desensitized to that, right will need to play it
louder and louder to get the same response.
So I haven't seen that with melatonin.
You know. So it seems to be really safe to
even take those higher doses. But my, my bias is that if you
don't need to take it, it's better to take the building
block, you know, make sure you're getting enough tryptophan
in your diet and then your brain and you actually do, you know
what? Organ makes the most melatonin
what the got about 90% of the Melatonin the bodies made in the
got super important for the guy. Yeah it makes sense.
Same with serotonin to believe right?
Yeah. So we're told I think is even
higher. Fire and 9% is made in the gut.
So, you know, like my bias and the way we approached qualia
night especially since we're saying out, take this at dinner.
Like you want to ideally promote people take melatonin in that
window to spike it in the blood when your body would naturally
spiking it. So you know, coming up to when
you'd be going to bed. And so we just thought a better
route was let's give tryptophan some Co factors that help in the
enzymes that can turn tryptophan into melatonin and I got My
general thought process or, you know, relatively healthy people
give your body the resources and a lot of figure out how to use
them. If someone's, you know, really
sick. And you know, I'd say they have
some what I think. People don't always understand
melatonin works most well as it's called a Chrono biotic
something that helps anchor. Our body clock in time it
doesn't really work great like to help us fall asleep per se.
I mean, it's not sedative, it's it doesn't necessarily help us,
you know, get better quality sleep.
And sometimes, you know, some people that take really high
doses. They'll almost wake feeling a
little bit sluggish, right? They don't like one of the
things when we were investigating quiet night, I
asked people specifically what it was like at the beginning of
their day. Like, you know, like did you
wake up feeling refreshed? We able to jump out of bed.
Getting going, right? Because that's what I care
about. That's a better marker.
That's sleep worked. Well, whereas, sometimes if the
dose of Melatonin is too high, it can actually negatively
impact that beginning of your next day.
I've been taking this valerian root tea before I go to bed and
that knocks me out completely. So balerion would be into that
in that sedative or category. Like it's maybe the most common
one, but chamomile is another one you'll commonly see in.
They can work really well or, you know, getting someone, you
know, into that fall asleep. So, I think balerion as far as
like, I know it would be the most studied single or that like
sedative type of, like, you need something to help you fall
asleep. Do you have a similar view of
vitamin D as you do? Do melatonin.
And as far as like the, it's not likely going to have a
drastically negative effect with higher dosages as well.
So like vitamin D is interesting I we like as a company.
We tend to be a lower dose for vitamin D, much more, you know,
the daily value don't, you know? So like the RDA, you know, maybe
double that as opposed to like, you know, you know, 5,000 IU or
something, right? I think so.
One of the things I look at is individual studies on something,
but I'll also look at the meta-analysis and You know, one
of the main use cases of vitamin D as an example, would be for
immunity right to make us more bulletproof and in those studies
the best responses have actually been in say like a 600 to 800 IU
range, you actually do slightly worse when you get up to the
four or five thousand. So you know, so my default is
again like what's you know, like is there, you know that your
peas, Dodds it right? Like that range where the most
people are likely to get. The most benefits.
Now that said if someone's deficient in vitamin D, they're
probably going to do way better, at least initially getting, you
know, like doing a much higher dose.
So I'm like, I guess long story short, I'm not a Moore's better
person and I try to find whatever the ingredient is, is
there like a dose range? Where I'm most confident that
someone taking this long term is going to get a good benefit and
again like you may be aware of this.
But what sometimes Happens in studies is like, it'll be a
really high dose of something. And the first four weeks that
worked great by three months, like, you've seen that your
piece Johnson, right? That current like you've already
trapped through that and the way I think of it, as you know,
again like exercise. Right.
Your you start coaching someone that's super sedentary.
Pretty much any exercise program, you put them on.
They're going to improve for a while.
If you don't then aren't smart about it.
At some point, they make. Plateau.
Alright, we'll stop you keep doing that but they're not going
to keep painting. And you know, if you're unwise
about it you could maybe overtrain, right?
So like instead of performance staying at that Plateau, now we
would actually starts to gradually worsen, right?
So, you tracked through that whole upside down you and my
bias is that almost anything. We do will eventually tracked
through that upside down you that yerkes-dodson type of curve
and what determines Men's, whether that happens is the
intensity of something. So you know if someone decided
to run a marathon each week for the next six months, right,
they're going to most people unless there are genetic freak
are going to track through that pretty quickly, writing caused
quite a bit of harm, you know. Conversely if someone said well
I'm going to you know walk a mile every day for the next you
know, five years. You know they may still be
improving like going up that you know curve and not hit apply.
At tell yet. So, the intensity of something
is what determines the amount of time before we, you know, Bato
and then start to not benefit from something.
And with, you know, things like vitamins and herbs the
intensity, to me means to Dos. Yeah, no, I'm saying since,
like, when like my default is that if I personally plan on
taking some things for a long period of time which for many of
our products I have taken them for long periods of time, But I
want to make sure that I'm going to be more like walking, then
having a person run a marathon and then one of the things I
know I do and we recommend its a company.
Is that we all like to call your mind?
Our original nootropic, we recommend people take say Monday
through Friday, for me my work days and then take the weekend
off by just like, you know, fracture size, right?
You're not going to lift weights, most people every
single day, you're going to periodically take days off and
then, you know, over time Periodically, do you like a
deloading week or week off? Right?
So, I think that same approach is how I conceptualize you.
My Approach. Personally, the supplementation.
So, unless you know something, you know, per se, like an
insulin dependent person, right? Like of course, they need to
take insulin every day, but for most of us that are pretty
healthy and taking supplements, I my advice is, you know, feed
it much more like you would a sound exercising program which
makes a lot of sense and I feel like, you know, for a supplement
company to say, Hey, look, Don't take our product X days a week.
I mean, that speaks volumes to as opposed to just you got to
take it every day all the time. So yeah, I think, I think you're
right on the money there. Well, dr.
Kelly I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.
I have learned a ton one more question for you when it comes
to your own product line there. What have you personally been
used on a regular basis and found the most benefit with and
what has that benefit been? So the I'm on a screen a lot
computer mostly I'm not I don't spend much time looking at my
phone but we have a product called quality of vision that I
convinced our company to make like almost there to use cases
to protect our eyes from all the stress of excessive screen time.
So like it's arguably our simplest product but that's one
that for me is just a game changer, right?
I stress my eyes out a huge amount because of my My
profession and my work at this point, reading research and
doing other work on my computer and, you know, so I rely on
that. So that and then we have a
couple different cognitive products.
So the quality of Mind, our original one.
We also have all your focus. We have an energy shot, we call
it. Quality, nootropic Energy Shot,
which is got you again? Nootropic herbs and it's so I
that would be one of those three.
You know, each week I do Monday through Friday.
Commonly the energy shot just because I don't think it means.
I don't have to take as many capsules and then the newer
product while you seen a lytic that we launched last June.
I started taking that well before we even launched it.
So that one I think that's helped me do two things like I
at this point in my life putting on, you know you know muscle you
know losing fats a bit more challenging than it was even
when I was in my late 40s and I feel like my shapes improved
over the last year. Quite Substantially nice nice.
But that's awesome. I'm excited to give him a shot.
I'm going to try some of these and kind of incorporate them in
the mon supplementation protocol here and see if I can tell the
benefit, I do appreciate the research that you are putting
out as a company of the products themselves as opposed to just
the compounds in a you know, Standalone research paper that
may not be diving into the use case, scenarios of the people
are purchasing, it are going to be using.
So I think that speaks volumes for sure.
What can people go to? to learn more about the product
line and and the research and just use specifically Yeah, so
the best place is on neuro hacker.com and I'm not
personally very active on social media, but neural hacker is
especially on Instagram. So again, it's time we will be
neural hacker. That would look for on Instagram
and you know, our website is where I would put out, most of
my content, like the writing other things I do at this point
in my career. So most of the, the blog posts
they are from you. They're either from me or the
science ones would typically be me or we have a neuroscientist
named Sarah a day. That's what does quite a bit of
the content as well. Very nice.
Why would link answer that? Make it easy for people to find
you and again, dr. Kelly, I really appreciate the
time and the Insight. Keep doing what you're doing for
sure. Thank you, thanks so much for
having me on today. My pleasure.