1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600 Well hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,200 Today I've got special guest Robert Johnson on the line and 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,760 we dive deep into the wonderful world of mushrooms. 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,320 He has been an avid mushroom aficionado since he was a 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,360 teenager. He's grown his own mushrooms. 6 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,760 He started several companies around the cannabis industry, 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,960 but also now mushrooms. Micro Boost is the name of his 8 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,040 company and we just dive deeper into mushrooms as a nootropic. 9 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,280 The different strains of mushrooms that we're probably 10 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,400 familiar with, Lion's mane, Chaga Rishi, things of that 11 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,560 nature. But then also some of the psycho 12 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,640 psychedelic effects of mushrooms and how there could be use case 13 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,000 scenarios there. So very interesting 14 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,800 conversation. I don't know that much about 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,080 mushrooms at all so I was excited to dive deeper and learn 16 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,920 more and I've got no doubt that you will take something from 17 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,680 this conversation. So without for the delay, sit 18 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,680 back, relax, enjoy the podcast with Robert Johnson 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,720 and we are live. How are you, Robert Johnson? 20 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:02,560 Doing great. Thanks a lot for having me on 21 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,040 the show. Hey man, I'm excited to be 22 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,280 chatting with you. So you are a mushroom 23 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,920 aficionado. And it's it's funny that we got 24 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,400 this podcast going, because one of my employees is big into 25 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,680 growing mushrooms, is his apartment looks like a 26 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,520 laboratory right now. He's got grow tense, he's got 27 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,960 multiple different strains cooking as we speak. 28 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,440 So I'm excited to learn more about the whole mushroom 29 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,840 industry. Yeah, yeah, we're seeing more 30 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,880 and more of that everywhere. Mushrooms are are easy to grow 31 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,000 and and they bring a lot of benefits. 100% man. 32 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,560 Well, what? What gets you interested in 33 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,760 mushrooms in the 1st place? Like, was that something that 34 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:38,120 you've always had an interest for? 35 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,080 Was it like an ailment that you were suffering from and that led 36 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,160 to the mushrooms or have have that unfold? 37 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,720 Well, I started a supplement manufacturing company in 2019 38 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,160 and part of my job is working with all sorts of different 39 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,120 brands and people approached me wanting to make different 40 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,240 formulas or they have, you know, key ingredients in mind. 41 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,680 And one thing that just kept coming up over and over again 42 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:10,160 was lion's mane mushrooms. And so as as part of my my 43 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,800 consulting with these people, I did a lot of research into 44 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,880 lion's mane mushrooms, how they work, what's beneficial about 45 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,160 them, but also the the proper amounts to put into product to 46 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,400 really make them therapeutic and and work well. 47 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,680 And what I found with a lot of the people that I was consulting 48 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,600 with was they they had interest in in Lion's Mane and its 49 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,680 properties, but more from like a marketing standpoint than 50 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,120 actually putting together a product that was really going to 51 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,760 be beneficial to people. And I've seen this a lot and not 52 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,360 just not just people making mushroom products, but 53 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,320 supplements in general. And supplements you know 54 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,560 sometimes get a bad reputation not because of this a lot of a 55 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,000 lot of products on the market just are are are more marketing 56 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,880 and you know placebo at best or or misleading the customer at 57 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,440 worst. And so as as I made these 58 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,120 products and help people make products that I thought were not 59 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,320 as good as they could be, it really motivated me to to make 60 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,760 like the best possible thing that we could. 61 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,240 I think that's key man. Like, I don't take a whole lot 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,760 of supplementation, but I always get frustrated when I look into 63 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,600 supplements and many companies are just skating below that 64 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,840 effective dose required to have any benefit from it, just so 65 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,400 they can slap the ingredient on the label and kind of overly 66 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,720 hype the the formulation. But often times they're hiding 67 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,200 behind some proprietary blend, they're putting a bunch of a 68 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,440 filler ingredients in there. You're not getting enough of 69 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,800 what you need and getting too much of what you don't need, and 70 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,480 it's just a kind of a shady marking in a lot of ways. 71 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,040 Yeah. And it it doesn't even really 72 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,160 make sense to me from a business perspective because acquiring 73 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,080 new customers, making them aware of your brand and getting them 74 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,040 to try it is such a time consuming and and financially 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,640 costly endeavor. And so you know once you once 76 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,040 you have them, once you got them to try the product, you know 77 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,400 that's the the biggest challenge. 78 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,080 And so making something that they're going to realize is 79 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,839 really working for them and and have them be a customer for 80 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,800 life, I think you you got to make a quality product for it. 81 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,240 So I just don't understand the the mentality. 82 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,160 I guess it's very short term that, you know, you're just 83 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,880 trying to get over on people. I agree. 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,240 I agree. So when it comes to mushrooms, 85 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,080 and like nootropics in general, I feel like nootropics as a a 86 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,000 genre of supplementation has definitely gained a lot of 87 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,800 popularity in the past several years. 88 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,880 But a lot of people are using mushrooms as a predominant 89 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,000 nootropic, particularly lion's mane. 90 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,240 Can you kind of just peel the curtain back on what a nootropic 91 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,640 is, where mushrooms fit into the fold of nootropics, and just 92 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,080 what some of the popular use case scenarios would be? 93 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,160 Yeah, Nootropics are generally defined as like cognitive 94 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,520 enhancing products, right. And I think there's a a big 95 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:08,040 reason for the demand for these was partially due to the 96 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,600 pandemic and us all working from home and trying to find ways to 97 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,960 stay productive, stay efficient, stay motivated, focused and and 98 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,160 then also the the growing age or the rising age of the baby 99 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,520 boomer population. And I think that so many of the 100 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,040 the baby boomer generation has seen parents with cognitive, 101 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,200 neurodegenerative, cognitive issues like Alzheimer's and 102 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,040 dementia and it's such a sad thing to see that. 103 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,480 And I think people want to avoid that fate themselves. 104 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,200 And now you know, not just the the baby boomer generation, but 105 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,040 all of us are trying to, you know, be the best versions of 106 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,800 ourselves and and stay stay focused, stay sharp. 107 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,080 And so I think that's a big reason why the the popularity of 108 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,560 nootropics has really spiked. And then Lion's Mane in 109 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,320 particular is probably the most effective but nootropic that 110 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:08,360 that we work with because it actually works in your brain to 111 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,640 develop new brain cells. It's a term called a 112 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,520 neurogenesis and then also new neural connections which is a 113 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,840 term called neuroplasticity. And so yeah, the ability to 114 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:27,360 recall words better, have a better memory, stayed more more 115 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,440 focused and have energy that's not just from something like 116 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,040 caffeine, which is, you know, really spikes your your energy 117 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,920 levels, but then also comes with a crash later on in the 118 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,160 afternoon. Yeah, I feel like swamp an 119 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,360 ounce. Excessive coffee consumption or 120 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,240 certainly energy drinks for something a little more down to 121 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,560 earth, like some mushroom blends, would make a lot of 122 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,840 sense for a lot of people. Because I feel like many people 123 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:54,800 way overdue the caffeine. I was guilty of that myself and 124 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,960 then I swapped over to, you know, a blend that uses Lion's, 125 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,840 Mane, L Theanine, things of that nature, and I I get the same 126 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:04,520 mental acuity, but without the crash afterwards. 127 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,000 Yeah, and mushroom coffee is the the most popular form factor 128 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,400 right now for for mushroom supplements. 129 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,560 And it makes sense. You know coffee is the most 130 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,360 widely used drug on the planet. But but getting people to to 131 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,280 switch that really strong habit is is something that requires I 132 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,240 think not only a a quality product but something that that 133 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,440 tastes really good too you know. So I I think coffee, you know 134 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,320 it's probably an acquired taste for most. 135 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,840 I don't think like most 5 year olds try coffee and and want to 136 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,840 have it every day but but you know breaking any habit is a is 137 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,120 a challenging 1. And so that's one thing that 138 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,320 we've really given a lot of thought to and and in our 139 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,320 product formulation and our marketing and and so far it's 140 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,440 been, it's been a fun ride. I love origin stories, man. 141 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,080 I've always been curious about how some of these mushrooms come 142 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,000 to prominence and how people figure out where they can be 143 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,000 efficacious. I mean, people just sitting 144 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,080 around eating mushrooms and find out that some will kill you, 145 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,240 some will make you see things and some will make you smarter. 146 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,720 Like, how does that work? How does origin story of 147 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,400 Mushrooms being so effective in certain scenarios come to be? 148 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,000 I've definitely seen that meme before, right? 149 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,960 You know how how did we originally figure out oh this 150 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,960 mushroom is going to kill you, this mushroom is going to be 151 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,280 good for your your brain health or this mushroom is going to 152 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,760 make you see an alternate universe for 6 to 8 hours. 153 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:45,120 I'm not sure you know how that how that all started but but for 154 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,480 5000 plus years you know the Chinese have been using 155 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:55,120 mushrooms in in Chinese medicine there's even a famous Iceman 156 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,680 Otzi. The Iceman was this Neanderthal 157 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:03,600 that was discovered preserved, his body preserved in in ice. 158 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,720 And he has a little satchel on him that had a medicinal 159 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,920 mushrooms that archaeologists surmise were used as like an 160 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:17,000 antibiotic and you know, for treating other medicinal issues 161 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,760 that he might have had, you know, in the in the harsh 162 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,920 wilderness some 5000 years ago. Very cool, very cool. 163 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,760 Let's just talk about different strains of mushrooms in general. 164 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,080 Man, this is something that I'm not very well versed in, but 165 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,320 most people know of a handful of mushrooms. 166 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:33,440 They've probably heard of lion's mane. 167 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:38,160 They've probably heard of chaga, Rishi or portobellos or stuff 168 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:38,880 like that. But what? 169 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,160 What are different mushrooms that you typically use on a 170 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,840 regular basis, and what do you use them for? 171 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,680 Right, Yeah. So there's the three categories 172 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:48,640 of mushrooms. You got your your edible of 173 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,680 pizza toppings like your your portobellos, your crimini 174 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:54,160 mushrooms. And you have the psychedelic 175 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,760 mushrooms, which come in a variety of strains. 176 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,680 But the functional or medicinal or adaptogenic mushrooms that we 177 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:05,840 work with at Microboost include that Lion's mane which we've 178 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,160 talked about is is good for your brain. 179 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:14,320 To summarize it in a word like Cordyceps, your listeners might 180 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,920 really appreciate is as a natural energy booster and 181 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,560 athletes use it as a pre workout. 182 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:24,000 It's really good for the respiratory system. 183 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,240 You can get more oxygen into your lungs. 184 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,520 And one of my favorite anecdotes about Cordyceps came from 185 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,760 Chinese women's track Olympic team in the 90s. 186 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,360 And they broke so many records, won so many medals that the 187 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,240 Olympic Committee drug tested all of them. 188 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,480 They they passed all their drug tests. 189 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,440 You know, they came back clean and their their track coach 190 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,960 credited Cordyceps mushrooms for their increased performance and 191 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,840 you know, record-breaking running. 192 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,480 So that's that's one we combined Lion's Mane and Cordyceps 193 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,040 together in a product from Microboost called Brain, which 194 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,840 is really my entrepreneur fuel. You know, it keeps my, my mind 195 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:12,080 sharp and also the energy to, you know, work a 10/12 hour day. 196 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,400 And then the other mushrooms that we work with are Chaga, 197 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,600 Rishi and Turkey Tail and all of them, you know in general 198 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:27,000 besides the brain health affect your immunity and our 199 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:32,640 anti-inflammatory which is a source of most disease and 200 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:38,560 issues in the body And then besides the brain for mood 201 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,960 regulation, mushrooms really regulate our gut microbiome. 202 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,800 And I think besides what's what's happening between our 203 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,160 ears, what's going on in our gut can really affect our mood. 204 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,960 Our our outlook are just general attitude. 205 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,160 And so those are what mushrooms, you know, to really summarize, 206 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,400 are are regulating the most. And what is the effective dose 207 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,200 from a a performance standpoint on those mushrooms? 208 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,680 Like, is it probably going to some degree be totally 209 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:11,360 independent on the individual, but generally speaking, what is 210 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,680 an effective dose for that as a supplement? 211 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,880 Right. Yeah, that is a key, key answer 212 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:23,200 right in the the beginning of my desire to make the best possible 213 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,440 mushroom product. So depending on who you ask, 214 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,520 it's between 803,000 milligrams of functional mushrooms as a as 215 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,080 a daily serving. So our our mushroom coffee has 216 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:40,960 the 3000 milligrams per serving. We make vegan soft gels that are 217 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,400 1500 milligrams each. So you can take, you know, 3000 218 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:50,120 with with A2 pill serving. But but yeah, that is, that's 219 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,400 what's key. And that's a big difference 220 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,520 between Microboost. There's other good quality 221 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,640 mushroom products out there, but then there are a lot of them 222 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,760 that are real filler. And then a real key difference 223 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,920 too between between Microboost and a lot of products out there 224 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,040 is is is some terminology, right. 225 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,480 So when you're growing mushrooms commercially, you grow them on a 226 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,080 starchy substrate. You know your your employee, if 227 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,840 you've seen his his home grow I'm sure has these substrate 228 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,520 blocks and they're typically made out of oats or rice or 229 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,920 corn, some starchy medium that you inoculate with the liquid 230 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,200 culture or the spores of the strain of mushroom that you're 231 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,520 looking to grow. The mycelium or the root system 232 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,680 of the mushroom grow throughout the substrate and then the the 233 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:48,560 fruiting body or the, you know, the stem and the cap that we're 234 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:53,080 all used to the the mushroom comes out of this substrate. 235 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,000 So with Microboost, we harvest that mushroom and make a further 236 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,040 concentration of it to put, you know, a significant amount of of 237 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,480 beneficial properties into a small dose or a small form 238 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,400 factor like a cup of coffee or a soft gel. 239 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,640 But what I found a lot of these mushroom companies do is they'll 240 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,200 buy the myceliated oats from these mushroom farmers. 241 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,840 And the mushroom farmers are using the fruiting body at stem 242 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,480 and cap for selling at a farmer's market or putting into 243 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,000 a high end product like Microboost. 244 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:32,800 But a lot of mushroom companies market this myceliated oats as a 245 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,400 mushroom product, and the difference is you're just 246 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,320 getting a ton of filler. It might be the best oats or 247 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,080 corn or rice on the planet, but if you're paying, you know, top 248 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,160 dollar for a mushroom supplement, you're getting, you 249 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,440 know what the dirt that it was grown in for the most part. 250 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,000 And there are benefits to mycelium, but a lot of studies 251 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,240 will show that the fruiting bodies actually have 252 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,400 significantly more of the the beneficial properties of the 253 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,920 mushroom. And so there's actually a 254 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,960 petition to the FDA right now from from companies like mine 255 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,480 that are asking the FDA that companies that are using 256 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,120 mycelium not be allowed to market the product as mushrooms, 257 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,920 call it mushrooms or even put, you know, any sort of mushroom 258 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,640 imagery on the packaging because it's misleading to customers. 259 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,400 You know, it's like selling the roots of an apple tree and 260 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,280 calling it an apple or or worse the dirt that the apple tree was 261 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,760 grown in. And when, you know, when I was 262 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,840 first realizing this and and I'm wondering you know, what is the 263 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,160 the difference between this myceliated oak product versus 264 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,200 the fruiting body product. I assumed maybe it's you know, a 265 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:54,400 12:50 difference, but actually it's more like 500 to 1. 266 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,160 So that's that's it causes a couple of key things for me. 267 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,920 One I really want mushrooms to be an industry that doesn't go 268 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,880 the way of other supplements like CBDI worked in in CBD for 269 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,360 many years and and still do. And I think because people made 270 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,200 were rushed to make so many products, made a lot of 271 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,360 outstanding claims about them that that people would try them 272 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,760 and you know their their reality didn't match their their 273 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,000 expectation. And so they kind of just rule 274 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,880 out CBD as something that would be that works for them. 275 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,000 And I don't want to see that happen with mushrooms because as 276 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,640 much as I think CBD and cannabis are really powerful, I think 277 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,800 mushrooms are even more so. And so that's a that's a main 278 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,960 thing. And then also just from a, you 279 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,080 know, a marketing perspective on our own, the challenge is, you 280 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,880 know, if you're next to a product that's made with 281 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,000 myceliated oats, which are significantly cheaper to 282 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,680 produce. You know, how do you explain to 283 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,600 a customer that we have more mushrooms in a single pill than 284 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:09,000 in a a bottle of, you know, 300 capsules that are are primarily 285 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,720 the, the substrate that the mushrooms were grown on? 286 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,440 Yeah. And he was telling me about that 287 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:13,920 too. I didn't. 288 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,640 I had no idea that was the case. But they're making it with the 289 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,680 substrate like you're saying. And then I guess so many of 290 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,880 these companies are just using that as the predominant thing. 291 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,960 And as it sits currently, there's no differentiation in 292 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,960 the labeling requirements whatsoever, like if it's 293 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,920 marketed as a mushroom anatropic or supplementation of any form, 294 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,760 like there's no differentiating factor at all. 295 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,880 Yeah. It's really up to the brand and 296 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,360 some brands will disclose in the, in the fine print on the in 297 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,560 the ingredients on the back that it's made with my celiated oats. 298 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,480 But there's no requirement to do that. 299 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,080 And so therefore a lot of companies don't you know and and 300 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,320 even some that are that are using fruiting bodies won't say 301 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,440 how much is in it as well. So I'm always about like 302 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:05,440 transparency and and you know people that I think are the the 303 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,800 ideal customer for this are the people that are really want to 304 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,680 know more and and asking these sort of questions and so that's 305 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,040 that's what we aim to do is is educate you know not only 306 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,320 through our brand but but I write a lot about mushrooms and 307 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,760 and speak at conferences about them and and like I said I want 308 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,120 I want micro boost to succeed but more important I just want 309 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:31,840 the industry of mushrooms to really succeed because I think 310 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,800 they could help so many people totally. 311 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,960 Man, So I'd love for you to because like I went over to my 312 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,360 employees house here and he kind of showed me the workflow, but 313 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,680 it's everywhere. So like he just bought a place 314 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,840 to start making this in a more organized fashion. 315 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,640 So I'm super excited for him because he's really passionate 316 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,880 about it. But for the listener's sake, can 317 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,320 you kind of walk us through the start to finish process of what 318 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,800 it takes to get the the fruiting spore and get the the culture, 319 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,640 get the fermentation, like get the whole thing from start to 320 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,400 finish? Because it's really interesting 321 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,920 and I just want more clarity on what that entire process looks 322 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,440 like. Yeah, you know I I first tried 323 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,680 to grow mushrooms in my closet when I was 16 and I quickly 324 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,200 learned that a sterile environment is is key. 325 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,760 It's crucial for for mushrooms because you know you're growing 326 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:29,720 a fungus and and bacteria and contamination are your your main 327 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,760 enemies. And it turns out a 16 year old 328 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,960 boy is not the boys room is not the most sterile environment. 329 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:43,040 So that's that's really crucial and so sterilizing not only you 330 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,440 know the air and and everything that's around where you're 331 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,400 growing but the the substrate as well you know is either 332 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,360 pasteurized or or sterilized using that big pressure cooker. 333 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,120 From there it's inoculated with the the liquid culture or the 334 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:07,760 spore and then it takes a a week to two weeks for the mycelium to 335 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,080 populate and grow throughout that that substrate. 336 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,280 And a few weeks after that you start to see the mushrooms come 337 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:21,400 up and then that you know mushrooms are are typically 338 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,880 dried to preserve them. And the majority of the weight 339 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,120 is water. So if you have, you know, 100 340 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:33,800 grams of of wet mushrooms, by the time you you dry it down, 341 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,480 you're down to, you know, maybe 10 grams. 342 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,200 But then once they're dried, they'll maintain their their 343 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,160 potency as long as they're stored in a a cool, dark place. 344 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,000 But yeah, that's that's a quick summary of of how to grow 345 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,720 mushrooms. It's a lot easier and and 346 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,040 cheaper than growing cannabis because you don't need light 347 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,440 right, that you can. You can keep them in the dark, 348 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,040 and as long as you keep them, you know about the temperature 349 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,840 that that humans like about 70 to 75°. 350 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,520 They grow quite easily now. Is there any loss of potency in 351 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,520 dehydrating that versus like freeze drying it? 352 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,000 Because like with certain, like meats for instance, you know 353 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,520 you're going to lose some nutritional value when you're 354 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,200 dehydrated versus freeze drying. Is that the case with mushrooms 355 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,080 or no? That's a really good question 356 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,560 and I I don't have experience of freeze drying with to to say one 357 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,840 way or the other. But of anybody that's that's 358 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,280 tested mushrooms, I feel like I'm I'm up there on the list. 359 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,000 For a while I was just so curious about about what people 360 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,120 were doing with with mushrooms and mushroom extracts that for a 361 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,480 couple of years I offered anybody that was extracting 362 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,680 mushrooms or growing some, you know, what they thought were 363 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,640 were really phenomenal mushrooms. 364 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,160 I offered to test it for free mostly just because I wanted to 365 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,320 meet the people that were you know really The Pioneers of the 366 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:08,960 industry and get to know them and and also increase my catalog 367 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,280 of of understanding you know what's possible in in mushrooms 368 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,680 for example. You know I think a big big 369 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,680 difference between a cannabis and mushrooms is is cannabis 370 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,440 typically in stores you're going to buy flour that has between 371 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:33,120 1525% active THC. And I think you know non real 372 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,520 mushroom heads are are surprised to learn that psilocybin the the 373 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,680 active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms is actually like less 374 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:49,640 than 1% of the the total weight on average Like a .6% is about 375 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,840 the the average amount of of psilocybin in a mushroom. 376 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,640 But because of its, you know, long criminality, there were a 377 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,280 ton of studies on on mushrooms and psychedelics in the 50s and 378 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,200 60s before the the controlled Substance Act. 379 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:11,080 And now as as they're coming out of the closet and more, more 380 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,640 research and development money is being put into it. 381 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,400 There's a lot more studies going on. 382 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,120 But you know, people are still not sure like where exactly in 383 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:26,720 that mushroom the psilocybin is. And so consequently making 384 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,200 extractions of it have not evolved to the same place that 385 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,760 we have with with cannabis extraction where you can you 386 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:41,440 know make close to 99% pure cannabinoid extract. 387 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:46,080 Mushrooms are are still in their their infancy with the the 388 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,000 science behind that is that. Why? 389 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,880 That excites you more than the cannabis industry. 390 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,320 Yeah. I mean I I like, I like emerging 391 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,840 markets. I find it interesting especially 392 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,480 with the with things like mushrooms that you know have to 393 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,960 reconcile between being this this ancient religious 394 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,840 ceremonial substance that was put here on earth and then 395 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,160 merging with like the capitalism of of the United States and the 396 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,960 world. It's a it's an interesting mash 397 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,800 up and so I find that really fascinating and and you know 398 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,200 with with cannabis we sold our last cannabis company in 2018 399 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,880 right as as legalization for adult use was starting in 400 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:44,520 California and the industry just really changed really fast and 401 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,640 it became as soon as it became legal it, it went from a lot of 402 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:54,440 you know seemingly you know mom and pop operations to some some 403 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,480 giant investments which for most people have not gone that great. 404 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,880 And I think the reason for that is, you know, unlike alcohol 405 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,640 prohibition, which was just thirteen years in this country, 406 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,880 cannabis was prohibited for so long, decades, almost 100 years, 407 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:21,080 that an entire cottage industry was able to really flourish and 408 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,480 and evolve. And you know, you've got 409 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,320 generations of people that have been doing this. 410 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,400 And so when the government finally decides, OK well let's 411 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,440 make this legal and and let's tax the hell out of it. 412 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,560 Well it it makes the the the original growers, I don't know 413 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:46,200 facing less penalty if caught. So consequently the the prices 414 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:52,200 go down but but there's no like undoing this whole industry 415 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,360 that's been operating for so long And in California anyways, 416 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,960 it's estimated that still 90 plus percent of cannabis sales 417 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,280 in the state are done outside the the legal system. 418 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,880 And so I think that also presents an interesting 419 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,040 challenge when decriminalizing and and then ultimately 420 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,880 legalizing these things that have been prohibited for so long 421 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,680 as is how do we do it in a way that that doesn't just make the 422 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,880 black market stronger and make all the people that invest in 423 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,680 trying to do it the legal right way just lose their shirts. 424 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,200 And that's that's what we've seen in cannabis. 425 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,200 And and so, yeah, similar to not wanting to see Lion's Man go the 426 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,880 way of CBDI think most psychedelic activists don't want 427 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,480 to see psychedelics go the way that that legal cannabis did. 428 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,040 So it presents an interesting set of challenges. 429 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,440 What is the actually, before I go there and like just kind of 430 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,920 talk to me a little bit about the cannabis industry as a 431 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,800 whole, like is there any reason for it to be prohibited? 432 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,560 I mean, a lot of people, there's such a bad wrap around that and 433 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,680 I don't smoke weed. I don't really, I I don't have 434 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,680 any personal experience or knowledge of this matter 435 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,600 whatsoever. But it seems like there's a a 436 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,640 growing demographic of people that are leveraging that from a 437 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,880 health standpoint to help with anxiety, to help with stress. 438 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,680 I don't, I'm not really a fan of people leaning on anything as a 439 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,960 crutch to help prevent them from, you know, finding that 440 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,640 solution, you know, internally naturally, without any exogenous 441 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,480 introduction of substances. But I I'm not naive to think 442 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,240 that's should be outlawed across the masses. 443 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,240 Like, where where do you stand on all that? 444 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,920 Like, how does that work into our desire for better health as 445 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,600 a species? Well, yeah, I mean, as it was 446 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,640 legalizing, I've been in cannabis since 2008. 447 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,000 We kind of had a similar sort of trajectory. 448 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,680 What's going on with psychedelics now where it's 449 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,920 being approved in Oregon and Colorado for medical use only 450 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,520 and for assisted therapy? You know with cannabis back in 451 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,760 the day we used to roll out, you know the old old granny is with 452 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,160 glaucoma or arthritis and you know these these medical 453 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,800 ailments that cannabis and CBD are really good for and use them 454 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,800 as a as a poster child for why we shouldn't make it legal for 455 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,760 medical use. But ultimately, it's a plant 456 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,080 that was naturally put here. People have been using it for 457 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,480 thousands of years. And if you compare it to alcohol 458 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,280 or tobacco or things that are legal in this country, you know, 459 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,480 there's a lot less risk and involved. 460 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,440 You know, I had a lawyer who I always like to say, you know, 461 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,600 you never heard about a guy smoking a joint and going home 462 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,160 and beating his wife, you know, like, like you hear about 463 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,560 alcohol. So I think adults should have 464 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,440 their own freedom to be able to choose if you know they want to 465 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,840 unwind at the end of the day with cannabis versus versus a 466 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,040 beer. And I think you know from a 467 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,560 medical point of view are just like a happiness and general 468 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,000 well-being. You know, if you, if you smoke a 469 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,080 joint and watch a Bill Murray movie or some cartoons and you 470 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:29,080 have, then you laugh and and you know, just enjoy yourself that 471 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,880 that's that's really good for your mental health. 472 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,560 You know, we're all so stressed out all the time. 473 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,320 You know, it's good to to be able to unwind, yeah. 474 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,440 I feel like that that makes whole sense to me. 475 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,800 I've heard that the the main adverse effect often times comes 476 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,320 from cannabis. At least when you have 477 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,200 adolescents that don't have fully formed brains. 478 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,040 Chronically using it can kind of contribute to an increased 479 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,320 anxiety over time. I'm not really sure how true 480 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,960 that is. Yeah I've I've definitely heard 481 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:06,240 about that and and now too with the the potency of products that 482 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,280 are available now too in the ease of use. 483 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,040 And you know I know if if I could if I had a vaporizer and 484 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,480 and 50 milligram THC gummies in high school I probably would not 485 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,040 have gotten as good of grades or or brain developed as well. 486 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,480 But that's all the more reason for for regulation and and 487 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,200 legalization because also in high school I could a lot more 488 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,520 easily obtain cannabis than I could alcohol you know. 489 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,720 But but I think that that the legalization of cannabis I'm 490 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,760 First off like why it was criminalized in the first place 491 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,080 had a lot to do with the with hemp and with textiles and how 492 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,000 it was a competition for for paper and for cotton. 493 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,960 And so you know as we we look back at these these things that 494 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,560 that were that made illegal 100 or 60 years ago you really start 495 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,360 to question why that was. And a lot of the the source or 496 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,600 the the central theme of my writing is about like what are 497 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,040 people's financial benefits of saying what they say. 498 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,320 And and we we see that a lot in in cannabis or or in 499 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,920 psychedelics for example. You know if if your business is 500 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,320 psychedelic assisted therapy then it's in your best interest 501 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,680 to say well this is the only Safeway that that psychedelics 502 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,480 should be administered and and we should clean up and you know 503 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,440 make sure no one has access to stuff because it could be you 504 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,240 know tainted or or you know miss miss advertised. 505 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,200 And it's I find it kind of hypocritical because the same 506 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,640 people that were were pushing to to get psychedelics to that that 507 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,280 medical acceptance had to overcome a lot of that 508 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,760 propaganda themselves. And so I find it, you know, 509 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,320 strange when when they start proliferating their own 510 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,720 propaganda. Yeah, but but with, with 511 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,400 cannabis, I think, you know the the legalization of cannabis, 512 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:23,840 which is now I think 39 some odd states between medical and and 513 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:30,560 recreational has been the the best evidence of of democratic 514 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,080 activism in this country, at least in my generation. 515 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,120 You know, it was enough of a a grassroots campaign of people 516 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,000 who said to the government we think that this law is wrong and 517 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,120 that it should be repealed and that we should reconsider it. 518 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,840 And the psychedelics has a similar sort of history. 519 00:32:52,840 --> 00:33:01,520 You know it was banned by Nixon in in 1969 and still to this day 520 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,520 is listed as a schedule one drug above scheduled 22 drugs which 521 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,080 include heroin, cocaine, crystal meth. 522 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,320 So the government is saying that that psilocybin and and 523 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:20,760 psychedelics are more dangerous than than these known narcotics. 524 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,920 And I think the obvious reason for that is because people that 525 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,120 were taking psychedelics and for that matter smoking cannabis in 526 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:35,240 the 60s were very anti war, anti government, anti capitalism and 527 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,480 that was really dangerous. Nixon said himself that that 528 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:46,320 drug users were like the biggest threat to to the country, the 529 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,800 biggest domestic threat. Yeah, it's interesting how all 530 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,120 the politics and the propaganda and the the red tape gets 531 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,240 intertwined with, you know, cannabis and and and mushrooms. 532 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,160 It's just there's definitely some ulterior motives at play 533 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,720 here, like who's going to make the most money? 534 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,960 Who's going to benefit from XY or Z? 535 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,880 And let's shift the regulations in favor of them is kind of how 536 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,520 it's unfolded, it seems when it comes to magic mushrooms, 537 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,400 psilocybin, are there really many known negative side effects 538 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,440 like that's not something that people probably going to do on a 539 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,360 daily basis? I wouldn't think it's kind of. 540 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,600 I mean, it's not really addictive in nature, correct? 541 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,000 Yeah, I really predicted that that mushroom legalization would 542 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,920 not go nearly as well as cannabis from a from a financial 543 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,800 standpoint for that very reason. That, you know, people will 544 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,000 smoke cannabis every day, but it didn't seem like like mushrooms 545 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,840 was something that people would take on a daily basis. 546 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:52,440 But that's proven not to be the case with the the popularity of 547 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,280 micro dosing. I think psychedelic mushrooms 548 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,400 are are taking on like a whole new meaning or a whole new 549 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,120 purpose for people. So instead of you know taking 550 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:12,160 3-4 grams and having this kind of shamanic ethereal experience, 551 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:19,000 people are are micro dosing just for general Wellness, mood, anti 552 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:25,360 anxiety, help from their their PTSD or even just to be a better 553 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,560 parent to their kids. And it's not that they're 554 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,760 they're high with their kids, but but the psilocybin and and 555 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,240 silicon and the ingredients in magic mushrooms are just working 556 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:38,800 in the background on a really small level. 557 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:45,040 And and that has become I think the main reason why it's 558 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,920 becoming mainstream. You know, it's it's less 559 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,880 daunting for people whether they've had a mushroom 560 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,120 experience or not. You know, I meet a ton of people 561 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,920 that that took mushrooms in high school or college and it was 562 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,760 such an intense experience. They're like, well, I don't 563 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,840 really need to do that. Again, it's not something I'm 564 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,680 interested in, in my thirties, 40s and 50s. 565 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,160 But the concept of micro dosing and I think really intrigues 566 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,640 people because it's more of like dipping your toe into the cold 567 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,880 water rather than, you know, jumping in naked without really 568 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,320 testing it. You know, it gives people an 569 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,520 opportunity to to revisit mushrooms from a different 570 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,360 perspective than maybe what they remember. 571 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,160 So from a a mechanistic standpoint, what is happening in 572 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,400 the body when someone's micro dosing psilocybin? 573 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:39,440 Like what is happening to give them a greater sense of calm, 574 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,360 reduced or anxiety? Like like how is that unfolding 575 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,680 physiologically? Right. 576 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,200 So neuroplasticity which we talked about in Lion's Mane is 577 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,560 is something that happens with psilocybin as well. 578 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,520 So the the Lion's Mane is with the closest legal mushroom to 579 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:02,120 psilocybin in that way and in extreme cases, you know, forming 580 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,200 new neural connections with with a psychedelic like psilocybin 581 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,440 can cause what's called synesthesia and that's 582 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,760 connections that aren't normally happening across the senses and 583 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,840 people report being able to see music or taste color, right. 584 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,680 And that's an extreme example. But in a micro dosing, I think, 585 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,920 I think of it as like creating new pathways in the forest and I 586 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,120 think mushrooms bring an enhanced awareness and just 587 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:40,480 living more in the present. And so for me, when I have an 588 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,880 experience or or just something that happens in my day where 589 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:52,000 normally I would be overtaken by my just gut reaction to it, I 590 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,000 think I'm having more awareness of my emotions and my thoughts 591 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,400 associated with, you know, saying like a customer hangs up 592 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,560 on me or something like that, right? 593 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,040 Normally I would just be, you know, frustrated, annoyed. 594 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,320 Now I'm sort of seeing that emotion and really thinking 595 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,680 about how that feeling of frustration or annoyance is a 596 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,040 choice. And because of that, it's kind 597 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:28,600 of presents a crossroads, if you will, where my mind is teaching 598 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,320 me, or maybe it's the mushrooms teaching me that. 599 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,040 How I react to that is really up to me. 600 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:40,400 And so I think that that is what is making people less anxious. 601 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,480 Having a better life is just more awareness and having more 602 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,160 ownership of of your feelings and of your thoughts and not 603 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,240 having them being controlled by the actions of others. 604 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,240 So it's kind of like supplemental meditation almost. 605 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,360 Yeah, yeah. The point of meditation, right, 606 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,600 is to live in the present and and be in the moment and and 607 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,640 realize that that is is everything that there is right 608 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,160 now. Is is all. 609 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,400 There isn't. Anything in the past or the 610 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,040 future is a is a memory or a projection? 611 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,040 So out of curiosity, like for for you as an example here 612 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,920 everyone again is going to be a little bit different based off 613 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,360 of you know, their body stats and how responsive they are to 614 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,680 different substances. But like, what is your personal 615 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:36,040 dosing strategy for both cannabis, CBD, THC and 616 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,000 mushrooms? Like how do you go about that? 617 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,640 How do you work that into your day-to-day? 618 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,000 Well, I start every day with a cup of mushroom coffee, 619 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,160 Microboost mushroom coffee, which has got 3000 milligrams of 620 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,320 the five different functional mushrooms that we work with, 621 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,240 3000 total. And then I also take our brain 622 00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:57,920 supplement, which is a combination of Lion's Mane and 623 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,600 Cordyceps from From what I. Learned and read about 624 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,880 microdosing psilocybin, well for one like microdosing by 625 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:13,120 definition is subperceptual. So really if you're if you're 626 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,320 taking a a real micro dose, it's not something that is going to 627 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,680 affect your perception in a super noticeable way. 628 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:26,360 However, I found that that most people wanna have it something 629 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,960 just right on. The edge of perception, which I 630 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,040 found for most people including myself, is about 250 to 300 631 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,520 milligrams of your average strength mushroom. 632 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,840 Now this also really goes down another rabbit hole about 633 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,200 testing the psychedelic mushrooms and knowing how much 634 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,160 active psilocybin is in there. But just as a a general rule of 635 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,360 thumb, 250 to 300 milligrams of of your average strength 636 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,960 mushroom is just above that that threshold of perception. 637 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,960 And I take the the psychedelics only three or four mornings out 638 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,240 of the week and the reason for that is you can build a a 639 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:13,800 tolerance to it. So if you if you take it too 640 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,840 often, you just have to take more and more and it kind of 641 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,240 diminishes the effect. But but the combination of the 642 00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:25,240 functionals I think really enhances it too, because they're 643 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:27,720 all working on your brain. They're all working on the body. 644 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,640 And I think, you know, one of the cool things about mushrooms 645 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,440 is they're, they're transformative in nature, right? 646 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:41,000 They take fallen trees and and dead dead animals and can 647 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:47,000 transform them into new soil and and and part you know just 648 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,080 reincorporating them into the the ecosystem. 649 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,720 And it's my belief that mushrooms work on people the 650 00:41:53,720 --> 00:42:00,000 same way and that you know, that mushrooms know what what Robert 651 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,080 needs or or what Bob needs and what Sally needs. 652 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,680 And it's all all different. And so I think with the the 653 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:13,480 daily use, not just the, you know, occasional use that that 654 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,000 these things are are really changing our Physiology. 655 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,080 And and 250 to 300 milligrams of a psychoactive mushroom. 656 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,960 Is that like the equivalent of like one mushroom cap or what 657 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,160 does that look like in your hand? 658 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,920 Yeah, it all depends on the on the size and the weight. 659 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,320 But really what's important is that the active ingredients. 660 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:41,040 And so that's that equates to about 1 milligram of of 661 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,240 psilocybin or silicon in in about a 300 milligram dose. 662 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,120 And the quote UN quote hero dose is like, what a full Maggie 663 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,960 full. How's that work out? 664 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,440 Yeah. Typically that's at least like 665 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:01,080 an an eighth or 3 1/2 to 4G of mushrooms is is what's taken 666 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,480 for, yeah, really going on that that hero's journey and that's. 667 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,840 Probably not something that most people would be inclined to do 668 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,160 on a daily basis. Daily basis? 669 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,520 No, not unless you're a shaman. They're working in the spirit 670 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,800 realms, but it is it is amazing what what people are spending 671 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,040 money on now. There's a company in Colorado 672 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:31,280 that is inducing long, long DMT trips and DMT is a is another 673 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,880 psychedelic. It's found naturally in a in 674 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:40,720 ayahuasca and but typically it's it's smoked in its isolated form 675 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,040 and and last you know 10 to 15 minutes. 676 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,720 But there's this company in Colorado spending millions of 677 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:53,280 dollars to put people under a DMTIV drip and prolonging the 678 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,920 trip some 1012 hours at a time. And what's really interesting 679 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:03,480 about DMT is it's it's naturally released in our brains two times 680 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:10,560 when we're born and when we die. And so by taking DMT and you 681 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,440 know there's a lot of shared experiences that happen on this 682 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,760 where people report you know going to the same place or 683 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:24,000 meeting like entities in this other realm that that this 684 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,400 particular company suspects is because or they postulate that 685 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,160 it's a an actual place that we're visiting. 686 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,920 And so they're they're spending millions of bucks to have, you 687 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:40,120 know two guys go under this DMT drip in different rooms than 688 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,440 trying to like meet on this astral plane even going under 689 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:50,440 and and like a cartographer mapping this world that they're 690 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,400 exploring. So it's just fascinating to me 691 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,360 that that one people are spending millions of dollars to 692 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,920 to do this research, but it's, I don't know, just a cool, cool 693 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,120 time to be alive that that this is something that we're 694 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,560 exploring. Yeah, I've. 695 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,920 Heard I've heard about that a little bit like on Rogan's 696 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,000 podcast, where people will have a similar experience and they 697 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:21,240 see things, they see the same things having not met each other 698 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,800 in the past. It's just very it's like a it's 699 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,200 like a shared dimension when you're in there, which is just 700 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,200 crazy. Like all this is very trippy to 701 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,200 me for sure. Yeah, absolutely. 702 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,640 And you know, if it's a the drug that's released in your brain 703 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,520 when you die, I think it, you know, might have might explain a 704 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,600 lot of, you know, the near death experiences that people come 705 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:47,200 back and say that they, you know, saw their their aunt or or 706 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,520 an Angel or or a bright light and whatever that was. 707 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:58,600 And of course, I think that that, you know, death is, is 708 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,320 still like the universal question, what happens to us 709 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,960 when we die. And and I think also that what 710 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:10,280 happens in in sleep is something that I predict like in the 711 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,720 future if we're going to ever have some sort of like 712 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:18,280 scientific, you know, aha moment akin to like Galileo or 713 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,440 Copernicus where, you know, humans discover, oh, we're not 714 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,280 the center of the universe or that the the sun doesn't revolve 715 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:27,600 around the Earth. But. 716 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,600 But vice versa. I think that the fact that we 717 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:37,280 all, like, lay down for 7 to 8 hours a night and experience 718 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,360 this different level of consciousness and then just wake 719 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,640 up and, you know, immediately get pissed off in traffic or 720 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,920 start chugging coffee or you know, jumping on to a a zoom 721 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,480 call without really integrating what's going on. 722 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,040 Or even just like considering the fact that we are beings that 723 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:03,360 are operating or living in these sort of different dimensions or 724 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,920 reality or states of consciousness on a daily basis. 725 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,640 Yeah. No, I think it definitely adds a 726 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,560 whole other layer of perspective to us for sure. 727 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,120 I mean, it's so easy for us, especially with the current day 728 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,720 and age everybody be just so trapped in their day-to-day that 729 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,160 it's hard to break free of the noise in our lives. 730 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,240 And I feel like anything that we can do to break free of that, to 731 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:29,840 actually focus on what is truly important and discard that that 732 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,240 isn't, or at least recognize that it isn't. 733 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,120 I think it's key. What about really bad trips, 734 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,560 like a lot of people will do, you know, certain drugs and 735 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,240 they'll experience really bad trips. 736 00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:44,520 I I've heard that a lot of that's just based off of your 737 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,040 frame of mind going into the trip like you want to be, you 738 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,520 know, in a safe place mentally prior to. 739 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,520 But like, can you speak on that at all? 740 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,880 Yeah. And you know people that are 741 00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,360 advocates of the psychedelic assisted therapy would would 742 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,520 definitely point to having some guide, especially for the 743 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,240 uninitiated or the inexperienced to, you know, hold their hand or 744 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:14,360 or walk them through what could be a really profound the 745 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,760 experience. But you're right the the set and 746 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:23,120 setting as a as a common phrase used in in psychedelic trips 747 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:28,200 where the your environment is so crucial to your experience and 748 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,600 also your intentions going into it. 749 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:36,880 And I think that real psychedelic advocates would say 750 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,120 that there are no bad trips or that, you know, something that 751 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:47,360 is in the moment feels like a a challenge or a struggle or a 752 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,760 quote UN quote, bad trip is something that you need to 753 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,200 address or something that the mushrooms are are trying to show 754 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,320 you and something that is bothering you in your life. 755 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:05,240 And so I think that that that they have meaning as well or 756 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:07,440 that that they can. Yeah, that. 757 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,400 Makes sense to me. I feel like there's probably a 758 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,960 lot of pushback on legalizing psychedelics from an ethical 759 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:19,320 standpoint and people just being wary of, you know, playing God, 760 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,960 so to speak. What's your stance on that? 761 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,440 Like? Should people be able to figure 762 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:31,000 out how to be mentally, physically, emotionally healthy, 763 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,280 independent of these substances? Should that be something that 764 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,680 they are inclined to use as as a tool? 765 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,080 Like, how does one navigate those ethical waters? 766 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,560 Yeah, that's a great question and and I think one of the the 767 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:52,080 dangers of marketing any sort of supplement and you know but the 768 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,840 problem with with capitalism really getting involved in 769 00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:02,720 psychedelics is it has become already marketed as this magical 770 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,520 cure all. There's the, there's a term 771 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:10,120 called the polan effect that's that's coined after the author 772 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,840 of this book that was published in 2018 that Michael Polan wrote 773 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,720 a book called How to Change Your Mind. 774 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:21,760 And it the Polan effect describes how it the, the 775 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,040 effects of psilocybin or or mushrooms can really be 776 00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:29,080 overhyped and oversold. But really like you say it 777 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,040 really is a tool and I think it's one of the most powerful 778 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:38,120 tools that we have naturally occurring in the in the world. 779 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:44,800 So in that regard it does make them you know either extremely 780 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,600 helpful or potentially dangerous because they are so, so 781 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,760 powerful. And so I mean playing God it 782 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:58,600 seems to be something that our society is moving towards more 783 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:04,680 and more you know with with AI and with our our technology. 784 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,360 And so it seems appropriate to me that pharmaceutical companies 785 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:16,240 and and everybody else would be interested in harnessing these 786 00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:21,240 natural tools or natural plants or fungus that are that are 787 00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:25,000 growing on this Earth. And you know, trying to either 788 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,960 one like make that into a billion dollar product or just 789 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,680 on a, you know, a person to person level, you know, use it 790 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,960 as a tool to ascend and or be the the highest versions of 791 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,560 ourselves and maybe you know show us something that we 792 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,400 wouldn't have seen otherwise. But you're right. 793 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,040 I don't think you know using them as a crutch or or using 794 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,160 them on a daily basis is the point at all. 795 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:58,240 Rather it's it's to just open our minds to the possibility of 796 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,400 of what we already are or what we already can be. 797 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,120 Yeah. Is is there anybody like a 798 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,200 certain demographic or personality type that would 799 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,400 definitely not be a good candidate for experimenting with 800 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,560 this? Yeah, someone with bipolar 801 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,240 disorder or or serious mental health issues for sure. 802 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,640 As is the first person or the group of people that are always 803 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,560 advised against taking psychedelics as it could, you 804 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:32,600 know, enhance or or create like a psychotic break, you know. 805 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,120 If people are already prone to that, then then playing with 806 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,600 that part of your brain is probably something that you want 807 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,600 to avoid. I've I've talked to several 808 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,240 people that have struggled with incredible incredibly 809 00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:46,720 debilitating, you know, dis disordered eating tendencies and 810 00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:51,240 just OCD and things that have hindered them in life that have 811 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,880 gone the route of pharmaceutical drugs that wind up crippling 812 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,520 them even more. That have seemed to to make 813 00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:02,400 incredible breakthroughs leveraging these more natural 814 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,600 remedies. Which, and my mind is great, 815 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,960 like if you can harness something that's more naturally 816 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:13,440 occurring and not, you know, be a a slave to pharmaceutical 817 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,360 prescription drugs for years on end like that just makes good 818 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,040 sense to me. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. 819 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,280 There's a a great documentary on on Netflix called Fantastic 820 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,480 Fungi and probably the most famous mycologist in North 821 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,000 America. His name's Paul Stamets and he 822 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:34,480 had a stutter as a child and his first psychedelic mushroom 823 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,720 experience. He got rid of the stutter that 824 00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:40,480 had bothered him his entire life. 825 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,320 You know, one experience and he never stuttered again. 826 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,320 You're right. I have friends that that quit 827 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,600 smoking or or quit drinking from 1 psychedelic experience. 828 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,080 And that's what I find also interesting and curious that 829 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:59,920 pharmaceutical companies are so fascinated and and racing to get 830 00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,320 as many psychedelic patents as they can. 831 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,120 Because it seems counterintuitive to the 832 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,880 Pharmaceutical industry that they would sell a a product that 833 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,240 could cure your ailment in one treatment and not require you 834 00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:18,480 know you to buy the product for the rest of your life and take 835 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,320 the product forever. Yeah. 836 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,920 It it is. Well man, like I know several 837 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,960 people that have used marijuana as a way to get off of just 838 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:32,120 excessive drinking and smoking. And just from a a physiological 839 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,880 standpoint, I mean I I don't know that much about the long 840 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:39,120 term implications of marijuana, but it certainly beats the long 841 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,680 term implications of excessive drinking or tobacco. 842 00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,400 So the better of better of those options for sure. 843 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,480 Yeah, Bing Crosby. You know, singer from the the 844 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:56,640 40s famously beat his alcoholism by smoking cannabis. 845 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,600 I would assume like with smoking or just delivery vehicles in 846 00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,760 general, like like let's talk about that for a second here. 847 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,800 When it comes to cannabis, you know you can smoke it, you can 848 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,920 do the gummies. What about delivery vehicles of 849 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,080 of the mushrooms? Is it predominantly just 850 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:17,120 consuming it as a as a gummy or as as the mushroom itself? 851 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:21,360 Like are people vaporizing and taking out the oil and 852 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,480 extracting the oil and using that in oil form? 853 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,640 Or like how is that done? Yeah, well First off, I mean the 854 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:30,880 the people who are making mushroom products are primarily 855 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,640 people that were we're in or still are in the cannabis 856 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,720 industry. So there's a lot of veterans 857 00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:43,200 that you know already have the the machinery to make edibles is 858 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,720 the is the main form factor that mushrooms come in. 859 00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:53,040 Chocolates, gummies, capsules, and no smoking mushrooms is 860 00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,880 something that I've definitely seen a lot of people attempt, 861 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,480 right? Because the vaporizers are are 862 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,880 such a popular delivery system for cannabis. 863 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:07,600 But as far as I understand that the psilocybin is is really 864 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,120 temperature sensitive. So you might have a mushroom 865 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,120 vaporizer cartridge that might have some effect on the first 866 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:20,840 few hits but beyond that you're damaging the the actives in the 867 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,040 in the product. But, but besides the the 868 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,560 vaporizing now I'm starting to see all sorts of really creative 869 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:35,640 products out there from like electrolyte drink enhancers to, 870 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,040 you know, just every every flavor of of candy and chocolate 871 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,920 and you know, the same sort of form factors that were 872 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,960 popularized in in cannabis. Yeah. 873 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,440 That's interesting for sure. The gummies, I feel like those 874 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,120 blew up in popularity with the cannabis, but that's where you 875 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,280 get that ultra high concentration and people can 876 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,120 tend to overdo that pretty easily, right? 877 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,480 Yeah, and I mean as a as a supplement guy, we really saw 878 00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:05,520 gummies blow up across the the supplement industry. 879 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,760 You know now now people like to take a gummy for for sleep or 880 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:14,840 for their apple cider vinegar or or whatever they're taking. 881 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,240 And I don't know if it was if it was cannabis or the the 882 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,680 supplement industry that was really the the first one there 883 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,920 to start popularizing that. But we've seen it across the 884 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,200 board. Interesting. 885 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,440 Well, what are you excited about, Man, there's all kinds. 886 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,000 I mean, you're on the the cutting edge here. 887 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,360 You're on a new frontier with the mushroom industry as a 888 00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:34,520 whole. What? 889 00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,800 What's got you excited with regards to your company and just 890 00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,120 where things are heading? Yeah, I'm really excited. 891 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:44,080 I'm speaking at South by Southwest in Austin, TX next 892 00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:48,640 month, March 8th. I'm on a panel with with some 893 00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:53,920 friends who are are big mushroom advocates and and media and 894 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,280 mushroom testing and journalism. I'm really excited about that 895 00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,560 and and this year I'm working on a book about mushrooms and just 896 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,000 exactly what we've been talking about and all the different 897 00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:09,720 angles that people are coming to this emerging industry. 898 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:15,600 And so that's that's where I I'm spending most of my time and and 899 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,560 I'm really excited because it allows me the opportunity to 900 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,680 meet and interview and and talk to people that have been doing 901 00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,640 this for a lot longer than me that come from all different 902 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:30,160 walks of life and have just really fascinating personal 903 00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:34,680 experiences. You know, that are commonly back 904 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:39,120 go back to like the Amazon jungle or Timothy Leary in the 905 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,160 60s and you know some of my favorite writers like like 906 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,880 Hunter Thompson and and Burroughs and and Jack Kerouac. 907 00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,000 So that is, is just really what excites me. 908 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,160 You know I find something that I'm I'm really curious about and 909 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:59,000 I I make it my life you know and so mushrooms are and micro boost 910 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:04,320 are a brand that I'm really passionate about but getting to 911 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,240 meet the the whole community especially I think before it 912 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:14,520 potentially sours like we we've seen the the cannabis industry 913 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:19,720 go is is a big thing for me and something that I'm I'm trying to 914 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:25,320 actively be a part of seeing this industry go differently and 915 00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,280 in a better way for for everybody than cannabis I can. 916 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,360 Tell you're passionate about it, man, And that that's cool. 917 00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,120 Like, I feel like a lot of people are getting into the 918 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,160 industry now because it is the hype. 919 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,000 I've seen that with the nutrition space unfold multiple 920 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,520 times and it it it is sad when it sours and people getting in 921 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,080 for the wrong reasons. But I mean the fact that you've 922 00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,040 been trying to grow mushrooms in your closet since you were 16 923 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:47,880 years old speaks the fact this is something that you've 924 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,120 actually got a lifelong passion for, which is great. 925 00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,840 And you built a business around that passion when it comes to 926 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,480 sourcing different mushroom supplements because there are so 927 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,960 many of them out there nowadays. Like where can people obviously 928 01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,520 go to your company. But like just in general like 929 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,960 are there is like a third party testing you know stamp of 930 01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,760 approval that is on reputable brands like how can people 931 01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,560 ensure that they're getting good quality stuff. 932 01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,480 Yeah, really soon. On our website I have a like 933 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,440 downloadable guide about how to read a mushroom label. 934 01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,560 But you know, basically looking for that difference between 935 01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,200 myceliated oats and fruiting bodies is the is the first step. 936 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,640 And so if you're evaluating a mushroom brand or a mushroom 937 01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:34,680 product, that's what I'd look for. 938 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,640 You know, on their website or they're frequently asked 939 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:41,240 questions and if they don't specifically say 9 times out of 940 01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,200 10, I would predict that that's a mycelium product. 941 01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,760 But of course you can always ask as well. 942 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,960 Send the company an e-mail and ask them if they're using 943 01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:53,440 fruiting bodies or mycelium in their product. 944 01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:57,760 And if they kind of dodge the question then that gives you 945 01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,480 your answer too. But that is the main difference. 946 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:07,120 And then otherwise, I think if you find a fruiting body product 947 01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,040 that you like that that tastes good and you start to notice 948 01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,640 that it's it's beneficial for you, then I'd stick with it. 949 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,880 And you know, people always ask me like why are these going to 950 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,280 work for me? And I always say like, hey, you 951 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,880 know, if mushroom coffee costs 30 bucks and and that'll give 952 01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:27,040 you a month trial period, you know, even if there's a 10% 953 01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,560 chance that it can improve your memory, your focus, your your 954 01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:34,640 mental health, it's a great investment in my opinion and. 955 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:35,480 What? What is a? 956 01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,960 What is a good like for somebody that that takes supplements? 957 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,120 A lot of someone's out there. I mean they've got great 958 01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,360 marketing around them. They people spend a ton of money 959 01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,040 on them. They can't feel a a bit of 960 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,440 difference whatsoever. What is a good supplement for 961 01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,440 people to try, whether it be a coffee Creamer or a a pill or a 962 01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,240 capsule for them to be able to know. 963 01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,440 OK, this is legitimately I can feel a difference from that, 964 01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:00,120 like just in Y'all's Park line as an example. 965 01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,400 Like what would you recommend people try to to feel confident 966 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,080 they can actually experience a difference? 967 01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,800 Well, the mushroom coffee is our most popular and it also has the 968 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,080 most amount of mushrooms per serving of any product that we 969 01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,200 offer. So that's if you're going to try 970 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,800 just one product, that's what I'd recommend and it gives you a 971 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,640 little bit of of all the mushrooms that we work with. 972 01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:26,200 So good for the brain, good for the gut, good for the immune 973 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,640 system, and that's where I'd start. 974 01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:30,640 Awesome. Well, order me some, man. 975 01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,160 I'll give it a shot. I'm curious to try it. 976 01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,040 Oh yeah, yeah. Let's give me your your address 977 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,520 after this this interview and we're happy to send you. 978 01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,200 So awesome. Man, I appreciate it. 979 01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,880 Well, where do people go to find out more about you and just dive 980 01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,480 deeper into your world? Man, I know you've got a lot of 981 01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,840 blog posts on the site, very informative there. 982 01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,560 So like, where do people go to just dig deeper? 983 01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:55,440 Yeah, it's microboost.com and it's MYCRO Boost. 984 01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:57,960 And that's also our Instagram handle. 985 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,640 You're right, I have a lot of writing about functional 986 01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:04,120 mushrooms on that site and all the benefits of all of our 987 01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:06,480 products in each individual mushroom that's in there. 988 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,440 And then if you want to find my my writing about psychedelics, 989 01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,480 you can just Google Robert Johnson, Rolling Stone and 990 01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,200 psychedelics. You'll find I have ten articles 991 01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,000 up there now, not all of them about psychedelic mushrooms, but 992 01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,400 all of them are about about mushrooms. 993 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,200 Some of them are about the the functional ones like Lion's Mane 994 01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,200 that we've been talking about today. 995 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:31,960 But but those articles I'm really proud of. 996 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,640 You know, I I went to school for writing. 997 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,000 I always wanted to write about mushrooms and cannabis and 998 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,880 Rolling Stone and so it's been a a a dream fulfilled and one I I 999 01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,160 continue to enjoy. It's awesome. 1000 01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,400 Man, it's awesome. Well, by all means, keep 1001 01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,440 fighting the good fight, keep doing what you're passionate 1002 01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,440 about, and keep adding value. I'm excited to give it a try 1003 01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,400 myself. I'm excited to dive deeper into 1004 01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:55,560 the mushroom world. I'm I'm really excited to see my 1005 01:03:55,560 --> 01:04:00,080 employee, you know flourish with his mushroom growing potential 1006 01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:01,800 because it is, it's just a cool process man. 1007 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,480 Like, I like seeing things from start to finish and mushrooms 1008 01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,720 are are very unique. Like it's a pretty cool fungus. 1009 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,440 Yeah, Thanks a lot and I really appreciate talking to you and 1010 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,840 and I hope the listeners will have learned something and, you 1011 01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,040 know, give mushrooms a try. Absolutely. 1012 01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:21,200 Man. Well, until next time, Robert. 1013 01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,280 Take care, brother. Thanks a lot. 1014 01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:23,840 Cheers.