What's going on? Ladies and gents, Robert Sykes
keto Savage.com, and I've got special guest the one and only
Sim laying on the line today. And this is kind of cool because
when I very first started the diet, I found him on YouTube and
some of his books, he had written excited to pick his
brain today. How are you, man?
Well, I'm super excited to be on this podcast, you know, the key
to salvage boat. Casts and I like, like you
mentioned that you found me on YouTube and I found you on
YouTube as well. When I was when I was doing
research about keto and bodybuilding and you're
definitely one of the top guys in this field in my opinion.
Appreciate ya. Yeah.
But maybe like talk about that about myself then I also have
like a YouTube channel like you mentioned.
I've written some books about Quito and I have a podcast and I
do I covered topics more than just ketogenic diet, eating,
like I do fasting, other bio hacks called thermogenesis Wim
Hof method, light therapy and, you know, stuff like that.
So I'm kind of involved in meshed into all these come with.
What is the human optimization who could call it that?
Yeah, for Sherman Act, we can dive into that all day long
because I love kind of not even necessary hacking.
The system is just really optimizing it to its full
potential. So what I mean what got you into
you know diving into what the human body is capable of.
Of and ways to perfect it and increase performance in the
first place, hmm? Like, I think like, it's
something that is very comes, very natural to me.
I ever since I was a child. I remembered, you know, wanting
to improve myself wanting to learn.
You know, I remember when I was 10 or something, then I had I
made myself this kind of a goal or this rule that I'm going to
do you know, pull ups every day. Every day I'm going to do like
at least you know, 5 pull-ups when start with 5 pull-ups you
know and I'm going to see how far I can go with know, I can
improve myself. How can I push myself every day?
And I kind of feel like that's kind of this kind of mentality
carried all over to the carried, over to my teenage years, when I
started working out there like the real Jim.
And when I, what, when I started to take it more seriously, than
it happened, like in the military after, after I
graduated high school, I enrolled in the military for
eight months and they're your kind of Opposed to different
kinds of elements in the, in nature, in the wild, and it's
physically, tough. It's mentally, tough as well.
And that's that got me interested in like survival.
And what does it mean for the human organism or a human system
to, you know, thrive in this in these situations of
environmental stress and different psychological
challenges of also, after after I graduated from the military,
then I started my blog. And it kind of rolled over from
there, you know, wrote some books started to YouTube channel
and after that it's been a while Journey.
Yeah. You can keep the valving.
Yeah. So what can like you listed up
before you've done all these different kinds of, you know,
tactics the Wim Hof method for any better than about that.
What, how would you describe the Wim Hof method?
The Wim Hof method is, is a is a breathing exercise, it's like
hyperventilation trolled hyperventilation, that allows
you to trigger the positive benefits of the sympathetic
nervous system. You know, things like
adrenaline, some cortisol, and it's going to put you into this
very focused state of mind and it's going to energize your all
of your cells. But at the same time it's not
it's not like hyper into the hyperventilation in the sense of
you freaking out and the getting an epi pen.
It took, you're doing it deliberately and, in a conscious
Manner, and the key is like, staying conscious and mindful
throughout the entire process. And, you know, the pattern is
something along the lines of like, you know, things like
that, you know, and you repeat it for like 30 30 breasts or
something. And then you're gonna do a press
hold, which is going to actually, you know, release this
more of more, more nitric oxide into your body.
And basically, I like it's a very energizing exercise and Wim
Hof him. Self is like a Guinness World
Record holder. He has, he has done things like,
you know, climb Mount Everest in his shorts.
Yeah, he has spent like two hours in ice baths and yeah,
he's like the Iceman. So he's you, he uses these
different breathing methods to control his nervous system.
So yeah, I'm really, I'm really curious to dive into them
because it's kind of crazy like, there's a whole bunch of
pictures of him online. I'm just like totally covered.
Yeah, nothing where nothing other than a pair of, you know,
shorts and and I guess it's all. Just in his ability to control
the breathing and how it ties in with, you know, is like his
nervous system and how he feels and perceives that cold.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like they've done actually studies on him and he can, you
know, consciously almost regulate his core temperature.
Like when he, when he stays in those ice baths, then he's
temperature doesn't drop to, like, he doesn't go into
hypothermia, he maintains a stable core temperature and it's
quite insane. Innocence of what the Human
nervous system and actually do and like, he's not, he's not a
freak of nature. He has taught it to many
different of his students and yeah, like, they're all there
for more all ages. Like, old people, young people
and I've met a few of his students and they're all like
practice these kinds of ice baths and things like that.
It's crazy man people and I like, it's an, it's simple, but
it's if people don't do it correctly, they can kind of be
dangerous. Yeah, like you pass out, if
you're reading it correctly. Yeah, it's true like it.
And these can become dangerous. Especially like if you combine
it with actual winter swimming or stuff like that, you have to
know what you're doing. Yeah.
And definitely like everyone is responsible for their own
actions. In this sense, I haven't dove
into the actual technique behind it, as much as I need to.
I need to just dive into like that for research, but I
definitely know that, you know, I can manipulate my breathing
when like Lisa go, scuba diving and I would manipulate my
breathing was doing free diving and you can able to, like hold
your breath. With much longer.
If you kind of hyperventilate, initially, you just engorge all
your blood with like more oxygen.
You can hold your breath longer underwater and they kind of same
concept holds true with, you know, Lifting for instance, if I
go into a big lift, I'll hyperventilate intentionally
kind of force more oxygen into my blood and they would have
power to that that set more, you know, more effectively.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like that's a very important Point.
Like I've also read this book called the oxygen advantage and
the author talks about it as Like that.
It's not actually a very good idea to, you know, over over
ventilate yourself, or to breathe, too deeply or breed too
much, because it's going to its leads to, you know,
mitochondrial degeneration, and the problem isn't a lack of
oxygen in a sense, the luck. The problem is that the build-up
of carbon dioxide that that happens and if you, if you like,
like you mentioned you, when you're about, do a heavy lift,
then you're going to hold your breath.
And that carbon The Ducks are just going to actually allow you
to you know fuel your muscle is much more efficiently.
Yeah, it's so interesting. Some breaking things down like
on a molecular level like that. How much you know, the things
that you wouldn't even think of really impact your performance.
Yeah. So it's great.
So what about keto that would get you into kedo?
I mean, if you want to optimize and kind of improve your
performance that led you to Quito in some form or fashion,
that intermittent fasting. So kind of what have you?
What's been your like transition from?
You know, eating carbs to Quito and kind of what was the Tipping
Point so to speak? Well, I thought I was, I started
off like we're in high school. I you know, ventured into the
world of paleo and slowly started to decrease my carb
intake and eliminate, you know, certain allergens like gluten
and legumes and do ya like big. The reason was that I simply
wanted to improve my health, like my mom mean, focus.
Focus has always been Like bunch of it and health, not not simply
purely Aesthetics or something that, but yeah, like I did paleo
and and a lot of like fasting as well.
For several years, I couldn't do, I couldn't, you know, stick
to it entirely when I was in the military because they feed you
like random stuff in there. Random ciao.
But like when I stumbled upon keto, then I first immediately
thought like I mean, maybe like two extreme, you know, how to
how do you actually feel your muscles?
Going to lose your gains, you're gonna get weak and, you know,
the basic fears that, that most people have.
But I know after a while, I learned, I learned more about
it. I heard you or a lot of the
other health benefits, the cognitive benefits and I was
simply curious and I was like, what the hell?
If I'm gonna lose my gains, then then I'll be able to, you know,
regain it quite easily and I know what to do.
So it's not that big of an issue.
So I tried it out initially. I did it for like I would say a
few, a few weeks, maybe four weeks, or something like that.
And I noticed, like, quite a significant difference in hunger
levels mental Clarity satiety. And during that time, I did, you
know, like I did notice a slight decrease in my strength and I
even might have lost a little bit of muscle as well.
But in hindsight, the reason why it happened was that it, I was
doing the experiment during the summer and as a student I was
also working working at at this soul of a restaurant as a
waiter, do you know, earn some money for the college?
And, you know, that's kind of a work is very, it's like night
shift work almost as well. Do especially especially during
the summer, you are going to have to wait on tables at night
and you don't get that much sleep.
So like that was the biggest problem I believe.
Like I do that. I might have dinner slightly
suffered during my first keto experiments because of that, you
know, this higher levels of cortisol and stuff like that,
but later Later I after after that period, I kind of fell in
love with keto because it was so easy, you know, in a sense you
don't have to worry about, you know, eating frequently, you
don't have to even worry about how food affects your
performance. Your always capable of, you
know, you can always go to lift something heavy without
preparing yourself with some sort of a pre-workout meal or
something like that. Yeah yeah that's that's one of
the that's one of the most most biggest Benefits that I've seen.
It is crazy man. Like people you know, that it
follows traditional time like from a performance standpoint
alone, you know. Like if you're following a
standard carbohydrate-based diet, you have to put so much
more time and effort into, you know, meal timing because all
that, it has much more of a factor plays much proper role,
you know, like if the peak for a specific event or, you know, at
the time, everything just right, so that you get the right
glycogen stored up to, you know, lift efficiently.
And with it, you know, it's like eat.
Yeah, you don't worry about it. I mean, they'll be times where
I'll, I'll not work out for, you know, several hours after
eating, or I might work out, you know, one or two hours after
eating, but either way, like, I'm consistently performing.
Well, I just take so many variables out of the equation.
And I just, I don't know, it's just from a lifestyle
perspective, it's liberating. Yeah, it's this keto.
He's like, Freedom almost and it is like ins in a sense of his
more effective as well. Like I see people doing these
Instagram posts or you know, videos about But meal prep.
And I'm always thinking, like, why would you need to do it in a
sense? No one.
Is that busy to cook up a few eggs or, you know, Skip a meal,
like everyone. If you're doing keto, then you
have nothing to worry about, you know, if you're if you're even
that busy that you don't have time to eat, then maybe it's not
actually a good idea to eat in the first place because, you
know, like higher levels of stress, they're gonna promote
fat gain. And if you do eat in a very
stressed out State, then it's not very good for your gut
either. So yeah stress is huge man like
I'd recommend like I advocate meal prepping but there's like a
pretty big caveat there. And then you know obviously like
if you're only eating one or two meals a day you should be able
to fit that into your schedule regardless like if you're
traveling or something you know that would be a good good
situation but you don't need to eat every three hours.
So meal prepping that a critical by any means, but stress alone,
like what have you found because that's kind of hard to quantify,
like, it's hard to really measure how much, you know,
Cortisol and lack of sleep, affects performance, but have
you noticed any patterns of correlations with all the
biohacking that you've done? Well, I would say like stress
like stress that application and the ability to cope with stress,
they're all subjective in a sense that it's mostly like, it
has a physiological basis but at the same time it's also very
psychological. It's depends on.
Like, the way you perceive the situation.
Like, for instance, if I'm feeling stressed out because of,
you know, working on my business or or if I Stressed out because
of, you know, exercising. Then it's a different kind of
stress than something like, I don't know.
I'm actually feeling pissed off about something or actually
feeling miserable. You know, it's different.
The difference is only in your way, you perceive it.
And and you can all you can always change your perspective
on the situation and and if you do it, then you flip the almost
like the neural chemical stimuli or the neurochemical result of
that stress as well. Well, it can actually become
positive stress in a sense like, oh, I'm pushing my boundaries.
I know that this kind of this situation is very stressful for
me, but I know it's moving closer to my goals so it's
actually become something to you and towards.
So, yeah. Like there are like fish
physiologic even physiological. Stimuli can, kind of all be
altered or changed with your perception.
For instance, if we talked about whim of then.
Yeah. Like if you put someone who
hasn't On this kind of cold therapy stuff before.
Then they're going to freak out like, oh my God, this is so
freezing. I'm going to die, but it's up
for someone who is doing, it deliberately was voluntarily
going into an ice bath. Then they're actually enjoying
it because it's um, it's a matter of like conscious choice
and it's deliberate. What like is there any tips or
tricks that you have Incorporated?
A few can sense yourself? Kind of challenge getting
stressed out in the day to take a step back and regain your
composure and just mental Clarity towards it all.
Yeah, like it's true indeed like that the stress itself, will it
can still lead to like overdrive and whenever I do notice it, I
usually happens. Like when you can feel your, you
know, quality Source, surging through your veins.
And what I do then is I have to first assist, you know, what is,
why am I feeling this way? Did I do something?
It's that made me stressed out. Maybe I drank too much coffee.
Maybe I didn't get a good night's sleep and, you know,
maybe like there's something in my environment that is making me
feel less optimal. And what I usually do is like,
you have to kind of, you have to kind of get yourself out of that
spiral. You have to get out of that
stress cycle as soon as possible because the more stressed out
you are the more stress you can experience and the more stress
you experience, the more stressed out you're going to
become so Like it's very the chronic stress is very dangerous
in this in this sense. So what I do is like kind of hit
the bricks almost completely. I usually maybe like meditate go
for a walk in nature. Listen to some audio books and
you don't simply put myself on, you know, parasympathetic
dominance state where I'm actually relaxing and one cool
thing that I've started to implement into my daily routine
is like, I'm having this kind of short power naps where I put on
Put on my headphones, I listen to some guided meditation for
maybe like 10 to 20 minutes and it's going to immediately like,
recharge my batteries and rejuvenate my mind as well.
How do you do that? I usually I try to do it like
ideally. I would want to do it like every
day but it doesn't happen all the time.
Like for instance today, I didn't have the time but usually
like every other day probably and especially if I'm like
working out harder. And then definitely, it's
definitely a good recovery act as well.
And you just have like ten minute intervals, yeah?
What. I've been trying experimenting
recently, is this kind of a yoga sleep, Yoga Nidra and it kind of
works, like, it's not even like sleeping, or it's not even
napping, you're never gonna fall out of Consciousness in this
sense. Your simply is, it's a lot like
mindful. I know this is or navigation
throughout your body. For instance, the soundtrack is
going to tell you like focus on your left finger or left hand
thumb, you know, second finger, third finger, wrist shoulder
hip, collarbone back, things like that, and it's going to
move throughout the entire body. And it's a very relaxing,
relaxing exercise. And I think, I think like it's
like it put in it makes you more mindful.
And it's Center is your body and your mind.
So it's like, it's been very effective and after you wake up
from it, then you feel like, you feel like you slept like two
hours or something and that's something I've noticed, is there
like an app for that? Or is it like a program that you
use? Look?
Like, I simply use like YouTube. There are thousands thousands,
thousands of videos about it, and different kinds.
So like the main idea is to Simply have something to focus
on and that guiding voice is like a me.
Means of analyzing your body, like, you know, like can have
played around with a few of the, the meditation amps in like the
brainwave apps and everything. And it's interesting to me how
those can have such a profound impact on you.
Yeah, definitely. What about intermittent fasting
and fasting in general kind of dive into that.
What have you learned and played around with there?
Well, I think like fasting was one of the best changes that
I've implemented into my like not only nutrition but life in
general. It's like the I first started
off with fasting, doing this sort of lean gains style of 16
hours fasting, and eight hours eating and I saw immediately.
No results in my performance in my energy levels again, you
know, the whole good stuff and I moved on from there.
To the warrior that, for, by Oral form of macular.
And he has this book about you know of actually spending most
of the day in a fasted State you know up to like 20 hours or so
and then eating during like a small time window and it also
works but it's more aggressive in the senses it's going to
promote more fat burning and it's the more difficult to build
muscle with that. But I will tell you then, yeah.
Yeah, like it because of the feeding window is a more
restricted in. It would get he beats them and
then like 3,000 calories, once a day.
I think so. Maybe I like, yeah, it did.
The warrior dad has been around for like decades old.
Not not take his butt or you have McClure wrote it in like
you in the early parts of 2000, the year 2000.
So he's like an O Gog intermittent Pastor, he's like
and and he's like over 60 years old as well, and he's like
ripped and it's amazing. Very cool as hell.
So that's more for losing fat. It's harder to build the muscle
was such a long fasting with Well it can happen in a sense
like if you do consume excess calories then you can still gain
weight with this kind of eating. But the the difference is that
like it's still more optimal to have, let's say like protein
synthesis, Pike twice a day. I would imagine if your main
focus is to build muscle but in my own experience I would say
like building very lean muscle and you know, burning Staying
relatively lean with this kind of Alma diet, one minute the
diet or the warrior that, you know, that that's a very good
good way of achieving both the muscle gain and fat burning
almost simultaneously. But it's very like, it's very
difficult and it's like it's incremental gains in the sense.
Yeah, I think and I think with Quito in general, like the you
put on weights more slowly. It seems but the way you put on
so much more Quality quality way.
Wait that makes sense. Yeah, definitely definitely.
Definitely. What about I mean?
Just building muscle Wiki to engine, like that's like a big
hot topic for debate right now. People assume that you can't do
it. They don't really know the whole
protein synthesis process works. What have you found to be the
most efficient way to do that? Like, the most important thing
for building muscle is like, getting stronger.
That's, that's the main thing. Like the training stimulus has
to be there for your body to Actually received the signal
that it needs to get bigger in this sense.
And for that, you know, the best way to do it is resistance
exercise, what that by lifting weights or even you're doing
your bodyweight only, you know, there's not that much
difference. In terms of the training
stimulus, you just have to progressively get stronger and
you have to at the same time you have to accompanied by you know,
adequate protein as well. The protein is literally the
building blocks of this new muscle muscle.
And Yeah, without the energy then your body is going to
struggle in terms of putting on more mass in this sense.
Yeah, I agree. I think and I think, do you
think there's a certain percentage of protein that's
necessary to build muscle, or just like some general
guidelines, that you kind of shoot for yourself?
I think like, there is some individual differences for some
people. I remember, I remember like,
when I first started keto, then my protein was relatively low.
Like I stuck to around 100 grams and I didn't feel as best or I
didn't feel as strong as I do. Now by consuming slightly more
at the moment I'm consuming like maybe 130 grams to 140 grams or
something, I don't know. I'm not sure what exactly what
Percentages might be, but I'm not.
I'm not aiming for percentages when it comes to protein.
I'm trying to reach a certain threshold with protein, which is
usually like, 0.6 to 0.8 grams per pound of body weight or
something. I'm not, I'm not particularly
measuring it. But, you know, after a many
years of doing kiddo and and dieting in general, then I've
simply, you know, you kind of guesstimate all of those things
with your eye, with your eyes, you know, by memory, almost, Do
you think there's any advantage to having like, 200 300 grams of
protein? Like, some of these traditional
body builders are taking Indra top.
That will the that's kind of a very sad state to be in because
usually, if you're consuming that much protein, then you'll
probably have, you know, low carb and you'll probably have
lower lower fat as well. So, this it's going to keep you
in a very deprived state where your body is constantly trying
to you're not in very deep ketosis you.
Maybe like in very mild, transient ketosis in between
your meals, but that protein is going to, it may not be
converting it into, you know, glucose or cake like people are
afraid of but it's still your stippling protein.
It cannot be converted into or protein.
Cannot be used. As energy protein is a building
block, in a sense before you can, before you can store
protein in your body, then it has to be converted into glucose
first. Yeah, which is a pretty
inefficient process in the grand.
Scheme of thing. So, yeah, yeah, it's not really
that the ideal optimal way to create energy to be used by the
body. Yeah.
Exactly. And the like from an
evolutionary perspective, or if you would live in the wild wild,
then there's also this thing called rabbit starvation, which
happens when hunter gatherers would, you know, simply they
would starve to death because they wouldn't get access to Fat,
deer meat, they would eat rabbits, you know, and the
rabbits are really, very lean, they don't have a lot of, you
know, fat from the We have mostly protein and if people eat
only protein then they're not going to get energy and they're
going to start to death. So definitely a kind of want to
be in like the last month, the most traditional competitors.
Basically, what they're doing is, why?
I'll look and feel terrible. Yeah, like that's and your
experience. You definitely did the opposite.
You lowered your protein instead and it dropped your Fatso.
Heater works. In this sense.
Absolutely. What about What about carbs and
kind of like your take on carbs, what do you find to be optimal
there in general? Like I do feel amazing when I'm
eating like a very low carb, keto diet.
And usually if you're if I do feel like the accidentally kick
myself out of ketosis by consuming slightly more carbs
from, I don't know, like vegetables or you know,
fermented foods or stuff like that.
Then I still feel like it's not going.
Like a negative impact on my overall, overall, well-being,
and mental Clarity, the next day either.
Because it's going the longer. You kind of dookie do the
longer, you become corrupted, then the easier it is for you to
re-establish, ketosis and dip in and out of it more frequently.
But at the same time like I still think like carbs carbs,
aren't the enemy and carbs are a fuel source that you can use
only in very certain specific circumstances.
And those circumstances, they vary between individuals, a lot,
like for some Rich Froning, I would imagine who like this, the
fittest man on Earth from Crossfit, he has a higher carb
threshold or carb tolerance than someone who is sedentary, and
you would never want to prescribe the same diet to this
kind of a diabetic go over it person.
So, it's always a matter of context.
The problem is that the problem is that most most people's
bodies aren't capable of handling.
I think that vast amount of carbohydrates and glucose that
that's, you know, prescribed by most witness diets angry.
And it's kind of crazy, like, a lot of, you know, extreme
competitive athletes. You know, they can have that
higher threshold. But even that even their higher
threshold is still pretty low when compared to people who
should not be eaten near as many carbs and are much more
sedentary, so it's just kind of recipe for disaster for them.
Yeah, I think like the the like fundamental Base Line would be a
keto diet for everyone. Like if you're not, if you're
not working out then I think that day if you're not working
out that a day then that they should be like a low-carb diet
for everyone. So just just for General Health.
Yeah. No, I completely agree.
Completely. What do you think about like
like the targeted Quito in the cyclical Kido?
Hmm. I did try the secret cookie
dough during my first months of Quito experiment and like it is
like very appealing. It's very attractive in this
sense of, okay? I'm gonna, I'm gonna grind
through this week and then going to have a massive cheat day and
those days they indeed were like a very glorious and enjoyable in
this sense, like I remember I was in college and I was he
eating like about 5,000 calories and you know what?
1,000 grams of carbs with from, you know, some potatoes rice.
I did try to stick to some healthy cars, but I also like
ate some, you know, the process stuff like I don't know, waffles
pancakes, you know, ice cream stuff like that.
And you woke up the next day you woke up quite fast, cooler.
You woke up even leaner than you were before but at the same time
you kind of suffered with this from this massive car blue and
brain fog. So yeah, it kind of got boring.
I had different priorities in the sense like I needed my brain
to function at its best. To, you know, build up a
business and run my blog. So I didn't, I didn't, you know,
the benefits didn't outweigh the negative side effects, so I
decided to kind of move away from that.
And then I tried to get the target at keto diet, which
which, which I, which, I believe like it's it's more, it's more
effective than cyclical keto. Because you can, you get the
performance enhancing boost of this?
Small amount of carbohydrates. But at the Same time, you're
going to not going to suffer from these massive Chi to flow
again and because you're not going to overdo with the carbs.
And I've been trying it out on like some of most of my more
intense high intensity training days.
Usually when I'm incorporating some I don't know, hit cardio or
Tabata or if I mean if I'm simply trying to build more mess
with with with keto then I'm trying to then I will Implement
maybe like a small amount of carbs with some protein, maybe
like a half. If banana or things like that,
but in general, like, I still don't feel I can still perform
without it, you know, like maybe even like, you know, I'll skip
anything or skip all meals all together, and I'll maybe drink
like apple cider vinegar with some water.
And that's my pre-workout drink. And that put me into the right
state of mind and, you know, I can still work out.
Yeah, absolutely. I think I've not really played
around the Target acute much myself.
But you know how You people on that, they've enjoyed working
with it. And I do see kind of like how it
could be advantageous in sense, but I can see it being dangerous
to the people. Wind up kind of giving
themselves more carbs in their body actually needs and there
and just kind of doing the more harm than good.
Yeah, it definitely doesn't work for all sports.
You can't you can't get away with it.
When doing yoga or or even like, let's say powerlifting itself.
You're not actually burning a ton of glycogen when you're
doing powerlifting. Yeah, this lower reps like one,
two, three, reps, or even five reps that those those are
perfect for keto because you don't need that many carbs you
would only like maybe want to experiment with this target key
do when you're doing this crazy bodybuilding, super sets and
stuff like that or if you're doing CrossFit or if you're
working out twice a day or if you're even like kind of no,
doing Ironman Triathlon. Those people did they tend to do
better with the the target Aikido and you know, other
people simply won't need them carbs.
So like doing doing housework and walking around the park,
doesn't doesn't qualify. Yeah.
You have to be a throat, your Fitbit and reset the data in
that category on the cyclical to, I think cyclical.
I don't know, man. I think cyclical, just kind of
like, it was made with the intention of being the best of
both worlds, you know, carbs and keto.
But it ones, it being the worst of Both Worlds and you're stuck
in purgatory. Mmm.
Yeah, it's true. Like I would imagine like from
an evolutionary perspective. This the human diet is like
cyclical keto diet with with a lot of intermittent fasting and
stuff like that. But the difference is that it
may not be optimal for, you know, your performance and
well-being on a daily basis. You don't want to be suffering
all the time from transitioning go with through these periods
and I would imagine like these Cycles or keto Cycles in nature
that would happen only like once or twice.
Year, you know, when the seasons actually change, not every week,
not every car tonight, not every car night weekend with your
friends or watching sports. No, I'd totally agreement.
I think like looking at it from a, from an evolutionary
perspective, you know, the only time that a big enough shift
like that would occur would be with the seasons.
And, you know, there's not really anything in line with
that, with just the weekly carbines that people are doing
now. And honestly, like, like you
said, in my, you need, your mental Clarity and cognition, to
be able to improve your business.
I mean, I mean, just simply being able to have that
consistent mental Clarity to me far outweighs the, the
short-term high that I would get from having a bunch of sugars or
carbs. Exactly.
And one one thing I do think one
of the benefits of the Seeker cookie dough dot maybe like
that. It did indeed you know revs up
your metabolism and speeds up the thyroid.
In a sense of if you do consume, like if you're actually working
out And then having a refeed day, then it may have like a
very positive benefit on the metabolism because, you know,
whenever I did consume these, whenever I do, when I did have
this cheat days, then the next day, I was very, you know, my
performance was indeed will slightly improved in terms of
the pump feeling and you actually lost more weight, the
next days as well. So it depends on, you know, the
individual and how, well they're going to use those carbs if If a
person who is struggling with weight, who is trying to
actually lose weight, then they're definitely not very,
it's not a good idea. To try the cyclical keto diet as
to, you know, maybe give them self a break from their diet
because it's going to jeopardize their product that their
process. But yeah, like someone who is
doing like bodybuilding, who wants to maintain, I don't know,
some sort of performance oriented goals.
They may find it applicable into in some areas and in some
situations. What I noticed is like those
those benefits of the cyclical kilo, they, they kind of they
become apparent in doing strict keto as well.
Like the longer you do key, do your body's going to adapt very
well and you're going to notice the same benefits.
Even if you do like some if you stay consistent with with with
the strict keto diet, 100 100 percent agree.
I'm glad you said that because like I think another there's
definitely different stages. Is of adaptation.
And I mean, you can be producing ketones and technically
registering as in ketosis after a day or two, but that is far
different than being, you know, fat adapted for six months and
that is far different than being adapted for years.
Like your body, just continues to become more and more capable
of using what you give it. And like, for me, I've been
strict about four years now and I can get better pumps now with
not having any carbs then I ever had on you.
Carb refeed days and carb Surplus days.
Like I just feel and perform way better now.
It's just like a it's a more consistent feel.
That's why I like I always Advocate, you know, playing for
the long game and with that with the keto diet, like nobody wants
to think of it as oh wow, I'm not going with having those
benefits for years to come, but if you just look at it as a
lifestyle, this is just how you live now and that'll be here
before, you know it and you just keep getting better wage month
that goes by. That is that, is that like I've
noticed that myself as well like your boy She is going to adapt
to everything that it gets exposed to and like, I feel like
after this several months or years of Kira reputation the
ketones, the become as efficient as a glucose in the sense like
you like your body's going to metabolize them the same way and
the ketones are going to replace glucose in this sense I believe.
Yeah yeah. I think I mean exactly exactly
the exactly right. Like your body you know it's
forced Use and learn how to use what it has available to it.
So like if you're just putting in quality ketogenic Foods then
I mean your body is going to be able to use that.
Just as efficiently, but more efficiently than if you're
putting in a bunch of you know, crap foods and carbs.
So you do like it. What do you think about, you
know, dipping in and out of ketosis to find it positive?
Or does it happen? Like it's no good.
I honestly haven't even leave her out there.
Like I've just been strictly do for four years now and I just I
don't want to sacrifice, I feel that because I've, I feel so
good. Now, you know, some people will
argue that, you know. And I agree.
Like if I was to get out of ketosis now then then, yeah, I
would be able to get back into ketosis much, much easier in my
body wouldn't have near a negative effect.
As if, you know, I tried to do the same thing one month into
the keto diet, but at the same time, like that's, I don't know
what benefit I would get from from doing that.
So I just keep It's tricky to do.
Hmm. I'm in the opinion that you do
would want to, you know, occasionally not kick yourself
out of ketosis entirely. But at least, you know, move
Transit lie in between those States and what it basic, what
it may entail is that you're not going to have like a massive
GTA, but instead, you may have like a slightly more higher
amounts of carbs on your harder, workout days, like, I don't
know, some beetroot or this healthier cars that you may
exceed your Carb threshold by, let's say, 20 to 30 grams.
But yeah, it's not going to be enough to actually make.
Give yourself the key tofu or again.
But what it what it does accomplish is it's going to
improve your metabolic flexibility and you and you're
going to be able to utilize, you know, different resources more
efficiently as well and that's kind of you like protect
yourself against the car flew in the future.
And yeah I agree with that fish. I think you know, having that
metabolic flexibility is going to be Amplified if I was to you
know It kind of, you know, flirt the the edge of the line of a
bit more but what I mean, I could see that being really good
if you know, we had like, you know, a crisis or something, I
didn't have the foods, I needed him and I'd be able to consume
carbs and have much less of a Down downside to that but, you
know, I'm not really planning on a crisis mode.
I should, I should have access to the Quality Foods, you know,
whenever I want them or need them.
So I don't know. No.
If I would need to have that metabolic flexibility in this
day and age because I mean we're not like we have we have an
abundant food supply. Like we're all gonna survive and
be fine, you know, I can see like if an apocalypse or
something happen, though, I needed to be able to dip back
into carbs that would make things much easier.
Hmm. Yeah.
Like of course, the best response to this sort of a first
world problem crisis would be that you simply going too fast.
Like that's one of the most best biohackers or best strategies.
Against these situations where you're not going to be able to
eat Quito is to, you know, I'm simply not greet, you know?
That's the simplest way, like, on keto.
Your so fasting is so easy and it's so effective as well,
because you're going to literally be exclusively boring
only body fat when your incapacity ketosis.
So like, that's, that's no problem in my opinion, as well.
Like, whenever I do have when I'm traveling or, or when I
don't get to eat these optimal Foods, then I'm simply going to
choose to The fast because it's what easier it's going to be
more. It's gonna It's actually an
opportunity to drive myself in deeper ketosis and, you know,
rev and maybe like have an extended fast for several days,
even so it's like an opportunity to detoxify and cleanse the
system as well. So that's a one of the best
perks of Quito, I believe. Yeah, total agreement.
That's why I like people will tell me.
Oh, I didn't have any key tofu with me.
So, I went ahead and cheated and eat some carbs, and there's like
a, like, a three-hour window there.
Something, you know, they might be like at the airport.
Have Layover for an hour and decided to eat garbage because
it never think you do that. To me is like, just the biggest
excuse ever. It's like you can be just fine.
Wait, another few hours, you know?
Like, that's, that's an option that yukito.
So, take advantage of it. Yeah, you should be able to fast
for like a week straight with no problem.
Even, even you. And I like, we're relatively,
you know, like we still have a ton of calories stored on our
body and we should be able to fast like immediately right now
with no problems until the next week or something.
And we would be able to do it. Like it's you yourself had like
a extended fast experiment recent as well.
And, you know, like it's very something that our body is
supposed to be able to do, and we're not supposed to be freaked
out. We're not supposed to freak out
when we're not going to have our next meal.
Yeah, I totally agree. Like I haven't planner them that
much but when I did that for day fast are four and a half day
fast, like I felt great. I felt amazing and I performed
really good and I did all this was like very minimal sleep.
So that's kind of all kinds of measures on my body.
But I mean it was it was not a big deal at all and in doing
that it really kind of gave me more perspective of like, okay I
don't need to lose my mind. If I'm if I'm not able to eat
for a couple hours can be totally cool.
I just went for days. So I think you know doing that
for that reason alone just to give people more perspective of
what they're capable of physically and mentally is
hugely advantageous. Yeah definitely it's a huge
confidence boost. I really like your you you you
start. To realize how powerful and how
adaptable your body really is, and it kind of opens up New
Perspectives of, you know what, I don't really need to eat that
frequently. And you know what else?
Got my body. Where else, where else do I have
this blind spots or well, as to have these weaknesses that are
not taking advantage of, you know, maybe I don't know.
Maybe I'm gonna spare a lot of money, maybe I can spare a ton
of calories, maybe I can become more leaner, maybe I can be,
maybe I can use that time. I spent on meal.
Prep and cooking and eating. Maybe I can spend that time
spending time with family or maybe I can spend it you know
building a business or something like that that opens up.
So many other doors in this sense.
Yeah absolutely. I mean thinking of food as fuel
and then eating it when necessary and not letting your
life revolve around it, I think I mean that that's like probably
the single biggest, you know, live switch that people need to,
you know, take take in and then take advantage of because Cuz I
mean that mean everything could benefit from that.
Yeah, a lot of a lot of it, you know, sir, culture and Society
is, you know, it's mostly focused on entertainment food
indulgences, pleasure, things like things like that.
These are very immediate gratification Society is where
we live and you know the it becomes a becomes an addiction
for most people and simply like something to it's actually a way
of avoiding the responsibilities do.
No, you're supposed to do, you know, like I'm not able to work,
I'm not able to, you know, do the things.
I know I need to do because I haven't had my morning cup of
coffee. First, you know, I haven't had,
I haven't had breakfast yet and I haven't, you know, I haven't
had, you know, whatever, whatever it may be, you just
matter, you know, like you have to be able to do what, you know,
you're going to have to do, despite the situation despite
the circumstances, and despite how you feel.
Because you know, it's what you're supposed to do.
Do and present in Green Bay and people.
People need to be okay with going with out for a little
while, you know, and sacrifice. Like, people people don't want
to sacrifice your say no to anything.
And because of that, they have no mental fortitude, no
discipline, and no results, you know.
Yeah, that's true. What about like fasting?
Intermittent fasting from like a muscle building perspective and
like extended fasting? Do you think that there's some
Some ways to leverage that or is that going to be kind of more
hindering towards building lean muscle tissue?
The thing is like, fasting can make you lose muscle, but only
if you, if, you know, do it in Us in outside of ketosis, if you
are in ketosis, if you manage to get into ketosis faster than
you're going to protect your muscle.
And yeah, it's gonna prevent cut catabolism.
So the key is to get into ketosis as soon as possible.
And you know the magic of Quito is that you're already in a semi
fastest ate most of the time, most of the time.
So in terms of actually building muscle, then it's not going to
directly make you anabolic in the sense.
But there is some evidence show that it boosts growth hormone.
It's also increases one it increases one of the precursors
of testosterone called luteinizing hormone.
So like it has these anabolic effects if you couple it with
proper feeding in the after you break the first.
So and you know of course there's the there's the thing
that That, if you're doing extended fasts, then you're also
going to Res re boost your immune system.
You're gonna push stem cell growth.
You're going to repopulate, the good microbiome in your gut.
And that's going to allow you to absorb the nutrients from your
food a lot better. You know, the problem is never
that your body doesn't have access to micronutrients or
amino acids or proteins or thought stuff like that.
The problem is that your body isn't very good at utilizing and
using them very efficiently. So, First thing is almost like a
reset button that, you know, helps to mobilize those minerals
stores helps to mobilize those micronutrients.
And what I've done to notice is like, after I had my five day
fast recently like the following days, I feel so much more energy
because during the fast I recycled a lot of the old
worn-out waste material that gets accumulated in the body.
You know like this dying out cells cancer cells and those
things they got they get my rematch.
Stabilized into more energy. And after I break the first,
then I can feel immediately like a increase in my performance,
increase in my mental acuity. And, you know, everything,
improves. And that's, that's, I believe,
like, it can be used as a way of extended fast for, like, let's
say, three to five days, they can be like anabolic catalysts
almost if you could call it that, that they're gonna create
this proper hormonal, milieu, and it's going to allow you to
mobilize the micronutrients a lot better after you.
Dating. Yeah, no.
I can accidentally get behind that.
There's there's, there's no, it's got more of an indirect
effect, but a very profound effect, nonetheless.
I mean what, which honestly is holds true with so many Concepts
around nutrition and training. There's not like you know
there's not often times not a direct reflection of, okay?
Do this? And this is the result like
everything's kind of symbiotic and works together nature.
So if you can leverage fasting to improve the efficiency of the
body, so that when you do introduce food it, As you know,
better ability to be absorbed and used for, you know, muscle
tissue growth, then you're coming out.
Way ahead. Even if the actual Act of
fasting is, is not anabolic in the shorter.
Yeah, right. And I've, of course, like you
wouldn't be, you wouldn't be able to get away with it, if you
cannot, you know, fast all the time, you would want to do it
like intermittently and actually actually allow your body to
recover and nourish itself. Right, right, what do you think
about? I haven't really dug into this
too deeply, but there's, there's an argument that, you know, your
growth hormone is going to be increased if you fast for like
two hours, post training, and then you should eat after that
like you. Do you find much Merit in that?
Hmm. I think it's I think it depends
on what kind of training did you do and whether or not you're
breaking up in a fasted State? Like I do believe like high
intensity? Well, we know that like
resistance training and high Citee interval training, they
can boost growth hormone and like if you do have like a
post-workout Shake immediately or if you eat right away after a
workout then it may actually indeed like blunt some of the
hormetic response of adaptation because you need you need to
actually experience slightly more care about catabolic stress
and the hormesis in general to to allow your muscles and your
nervous system to adapt to that kind of stress.
So, It's did like a very I do believe.
Like, it's a good idea to fast, you know, at least one to two
hours after a workout just to allow your first of all to
court, you allow your cortisol levels to settle down and also
yeah, like make your put your body into a situation where
like, okay, we have to actually mobilize more.
We have to, yeah? Right.
It's, it's a signal that were in danger and we have to take
advantage. We were like, we have to prepare
in advance, you know, maybe it's going to, we're going to get
another hit and that That's like a signal in this sense of if you
were to eat right away, then you're going to shut down that
signal, right? And it's it's going to prevent
the adaptation. So no need to slam protein
shakes immediately post for again.
Well yeah. Like the problem.
The problem is that these supplements, these BCAAs and
Whey proteins. They only they are only were
supposed to work on an on keto diet where indeed, like if
you're not Kira adapted, then it's true.
You're gonna experience a lot of muscle mass.
You're going to experience Experience gluconeogenesis, if
you skip meals and yeah, like keto simply takes out all of the
all of the fragile components of nutrition.
And the sense it's going to make your body more robust and more
effective technology noise. I think so many people are
making the mistake of trying to intertwine.
A lot of what works with a carbohydrate based diet into
Aikido based diet. And this is honestly just no
need for like that, it wants at me and Just browse this
announcers and overthinking things because so many of those
variables are just removed from the equation and they don't need
to be reintroduced Wiki do. Yeah, that's, that's true.
Yeah. So, what about what about, any
biohacking experiments you get going on?
Now, is there anything that you're currently digging deep
into? The one of the most one thing
that is very intriguing for me at the moment.
These like red light therapy. It's quite an emerging field and
it's gaining a lot of popularity recently.
And the idea is that these specific wavelengths of infrared
and far infrared, light, they're gonna penetrate deep into the
tissue much, rather much more than other other wavelengths.
And it's going to stimulate, mitochondrial, biogenesis.
Going to boost, you know, to start their own in men.
If you shine it on your testicles, it's going to reduce
inflammation promote collagen synthesis as well.
So it's like in general, it's very healthy and anti-aging
benefits. So I've been using this sort of
red light device that every morning for, like, I would say
10 to 20 minutes. And it's very, it's a good for
the Circadian rhythm as well because it stimulates some of
the beneficial wavelengths of of the Sun.
Not Entirely but you know, at least some degree.
So that's something I've been experimenting with the.
You can you feel any different because it like a pretty long
term approach that you can actually have to feel something
different with it. I do notice like the N8 my
energy levels throughout the day are more stable and you know,
you doing feel less inflamed, less sore and it's a very
pleasing like experience as well.
The the waves are the, the light waves are kinda But warm, you
can feel the warmth almost if you shine it on your skin or
your face. My gym actually has one element
that I never use. It them until the jump in there.
Give it a shot. Wow, so definitely go into.
Yeah, I've got that. I've got seven different gym
memberships and one of them is Planet Fitness it, because
they're the only ones that have functional stairmasters and they
Market the, the red light therapy as a total body
recomposition and muscle building machine.
So I think a lot of these people are just jump in there.
Thinking they're gonna open the door, walk in and staying there
for 10 minutes then walk out with abs or something, which is
a probably not accurate. But yeah, so you're saying that
the Magnus effect that would be highly advantageous.
Yeah, definitely I remember like I went to Planet Fitness during
my trip to the states. A few months back and you know,
it was quite an interesting experience like I didn't I
didn't get to do like a very good.
I didn't have a hat on or awesome workout in this sense.
Dumbbells and stuff. But you know there wasn't much
much weight to be moved around and and and the environment was
also like very politically correct.
Yeah. 100% men like they don't have barbells or even squat
racks. I think it's all a Smith
machine, which I know nothing knocked them as a gym or any
means, you know, they're trying to just, you know, be safe and
yeah, I guess barbells are and squat racks a bit more
dangerous. If the person's an educator, how
to use them. But Yeah, they wouldn't let me
lift. They're like, I want a lift.
Yeah, it gets the work. It gets the job done.
But yeah, it's for like the other, it's for the average
person who simply was kind of treadmill treadmill themselves
while watching, you know, some shows on the TV.
Yeah. For sure, for sure.
But anything's better than not doing anything, you know, I
mean, you know, more power to the people there that are off
the couch and in the gym. Well, very cool man.
Very cool. What, what, what people go to
find out more about you, man. Get out several books out, you
get your blog. Like I want people to find you
and learn about all these biohacking experience you got
going on. Yeah, like I've written several
books about Quito and fasting. You can find them on Amazon,
the, the best or the biggest one is key do bodybuilding.
Then there's key to fasting. And you know, there's also like
different books about the targeted keto diet and the
secret keto diet, but my website is also seemed Lund.com.
I write articles about, you know, biohacking, human
optimization and, you know, some book reviews and stuff like
that. And my biggest He's also
probably lock my YouTube. Seem Lund and vodka.
I have a podcast that it's called the body-mind
empowerment. And we talked about similar
stuff about Quito and nutrition and becoming superhuman.
As I like to call it in general. So those are what are those
where people can find me. Awesome, awesome.
I'll link at how those is what how do you say 23:23 as arson
that you're doing this man? And like you know, that's a
young age honest, I mean you gotta like a lot.
Of a lot of future lives in this.
I mean, the fact that you've got, you know, your content
creation, you're pumping out articles, you get your books,
the podcast, the blog, the videos, I mean yeah, this is
awesome. I'm excited for you gotta you
gotta super bright future. Well yeah definitely I feel
fortunate for having you know, this kind of an opportunity
myself because you had a lot of people.
They do say like that you're so young and it's very interesting
or it's very yeah you should be very grateful for for having me
Kind of Revelations so far. And I'm mostly I credited to
gratitude in a sense that I've deeply contemplated about, you
know, how fortunate is for us to live in this kind of day and age
and what it means to be human at the moment and how many
opportunities we actually have? You know, there's no reasons to
do, you know, hit the snooze or two, you know, Skip a workout
just because you feel lazy because you know, it's a huge
privilege in the sense in nature, you would die.
Hi, if you did something like that and you know, that's that.
What keeps you keeps me going? That is super, super cool man.
Like I want to First add a little bit more that.
I mean the freaking just gave me goosebumps mainly because
people, you're absolutely right people.
They don't take advantage of all the opportunities that we have
and we have it so good right now.
Like this, this is an opportunity in which anybody can
pretty much build a life for themselves with nothing more
than their cell phone. And yes, exactly.
If you just stop and take a moment, think about that, to not
leverage that opportunity and not make the most of every
freakin waking moment. You have on this planet then
then you're doing a disservice to yourself and others.
Yeah. And not only for yourself and
but, you know, your future Generations as well.
Like what are you going to say to your grandchildren?
If they ask you like why didn't you take advantage of it to know
how I how we going to explain yourself.
Like it's crazy. Like you're supposed to be.
Actually not doing it for you. Yourself but you know, for your
children and grandchildren a future.
Now I as it's freaking awesome. I love how you just get me fired
up again here, like the whole concept of you know, like I
don't expect everybody to want to build a business or being
entrepreneur. Like I'm not asking anybody to
do that. They don't want like if they're
happy and they're content in their life, then then more power
to him. But at the same time, like I
don't necessarily think it's like enough to just get by and
do what makes you happy. Get it.
Like I think it's important and I think it's admirable to think
of life in a grander scale than just you alone.
Like what you have this opportunity, you're alive and
well and healthy. And you've been put on this
planet. I think it's important to try
and go through life in terms of, you know, adding more value than
you take. It's not it's not good enough to
just simply exist. Like I think you need to leave
this world, bringing more into it, more positivity into it
than, than it was there before you came, you know.
Yeah, yeah. And you have to have you, you
have to have I'm sort of a purpose or some sort of a
meaning, you know, towards which you build.
And, you know, it may not be like, it doesn't have to be a
business. You don't have to be Elon Musk
taking us to Mars. It may be like, improving your
local community and growing up your, or raising your children,
or whatever it may be. Like, bringing a smile to a
stranger's face, or whatever it may be just to contribute back
to the world. Amen. 100%, what, what, what,
what is your purpose? Like, if you had to Define your
legacy, you Want to leave. What would you say?
That's a deep question. I put you on the spot there.
Well like I would say like, as I'm as a race as a society or
less as Humanity. We're standing at the doorstep
of this massive Quantum Leap in our Evolution because of, you
know, biotech and Ai. And this different massive
disruptions that are going to happen in our culture overall.
And what I do, I tried to do is to make sure that we're not
going to mess things up that we're not going to get killed by
robots and that we're not going to accidentally, you know, get
diabetes or, you know, accidentally bioenergy a
bioengineer our genes in a wrong way that's going to, you know,
make things worse. So, that's what I'm trying to
make sure that we won't miss things up.
I like it, man. I like it.
I think don't want you doing anything.
You didn't 100% the right way, you know, you got the right
Outlook, you get time on your side.
And you're you're hustling because you know you got an
opportunity in front of you and that's as a lot to be said about
that. Man.
I'm I'm proud of you. No thanks man.
Like I'm definitely I'm very excited for your journey as
well. Like it's you are like
pioneering the field of you know human performance in the sense
of how to use Quito and how much how much more adaptable and
Powerful. Our body actually is appreciate
me. I don't know if I'm panicking
but I'm trying to do something. I feel I feel good about what
I'm doing. I feel It can make it will
influence. I don't know many people who
can, you know, eat like only 65 grams of protein on a contest
prep and still still win the thing.
So you doing something right? I appreciate me.
Yeah, we'll keep, we'll keep refining as we go, Crystal my
girlfriend. She's it 30 grams of protein
right now, man, that's good. Yeah, yeah, it's and she's been
prepping for 21 weeks, and she hasn't lost any muscle and 30
grams of protein like that. Miss just, the blows my mind.
Like, there's so much, we don't know.
We don't know about the human body nutrition.
Like There's so many things that are just coming out and we're
discovering on a day-to-day basis that really make you
rethink what is right, you know. Yeah.
Which is exciting. That's that's that's kind of
like going back to the opportunity that we have right
now. Just taking advantage of it.
So friendly, and it's exciting times.
Absolutely. Well, then let's definitely stay
in touch, man. I'm excited to see what you got
going on in the future and I'll definitely link out to all your
social channels and your website.
So people can follow the your journey along as well.
Definitely, I was supposed to talking to her life.
Quiet air take came in.