1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,560 Well hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,800 Today I've got two special guests, Wade Lighthart and Matt 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,000 Gallant. They are the the head honchos 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,640 behind the Bio Optimizers brand of supplements. 5 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,000 They also just recently came out with a book called The Ultimate 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,760 Nutrition Bible and we dove super deep into digestive health 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:20,560 on this episode. We talked quite a bit about 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,960 natural bodybuilding calorie modulation. 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,200 It's interesting because Wade is a plant based athlete. 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,920 He follows a raw vegan diet. Matt is more of the carnivore 11 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,360 keto in the spectrum. So both guys having success with 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,960 their their physical endeavours, their health and coming out from 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,720 totally different ends of the spectrum. 14 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,480 So very interesting to kind of go back and forth, figure out 15 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:47,760 what they think as a potential nutrition and why they eat the 16 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,320 way they do, what successes. They found the pros and cons of 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,480 each dietary protocol. We talked quite a bit, like I 18 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:55,560 said about digestive health enzymes and different 19 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,600 supplements that they offer to help aid in that digestive 20 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,600 process. And we just talked quite a bit 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,320 about intuition and performance in its totality. 22 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,960 So third, enjoy the conversation that both these guys are a 23 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:07,800 wealth of knowledge. I've got no debt that you will 24 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,440 take something from this. So that further delay, sit back, 25 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,640 relax and do the podcast with both Wade and Matt 26 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,880 and we are live. Wade and Matt, How are you 27 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:27,600 fellas? Great. 28 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,640 And you? I'm doing a wonderful well, I'm 29 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:30,640 excited to chat with y'all y'all. 30 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,560 Are the the brains behind bio optimizers correct the two of 31 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,600 y'all collectively? Yes, Sir. 32 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,040 I I use Y'all's magnesium supplement every night before I 33 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,960 go to bed. Same. 34 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,400 And y'all, y'all have got a a background. 35 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:47,720 I don't, I don't know both y'all's back story. 36 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,000 I know I got Wade's one sheet. And you've got a past in natural 37 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,080 bodybuilding, correct? Yeah. 38 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,880 So I I competed, you know, early in life all the way, all the way 39 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,960 up to being. My last contest was at 50. 40 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,560 I came out of retirement to go do that. 41 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:05,560 So yeah, it's a long time. What? 42 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,360 Was that like coming out of retirement and then stepping 43 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,720 back on stage as a master? Well it's it's two things. 44 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,120 One, you know you don't know how long it's going to take you to 45 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,960 get in the kind of condition that you feel is ready for this 46 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,680 stage. And I would say that's a lot 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:30,360 longer than it did when I was in my 20s and so so that was the 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,680 biggest difference. You know you you despite 49 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,000 whatever you do your metabolism, your age does impact the 50 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,000 ultimate outcome. But ultimately I was satisfied 51 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,400 with results and felt great, grateful that I could go do it 52 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,360 and you know, prove that what we've been advocating for all 53 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,960 these years actually works in there in a in a independent. 54 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,680 You know, it's everybody can look good on Instagram or 55 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,640 everybody can make things look good, but it's it's pretty hard 56 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,040 to look good on a bodybuilding stage if you're not doing what 57 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,520 works. 100% and I think it's. Just to add to that too, Wade 58 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,120 did it, naturally, then ran a marathon six months later. 59 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,560 His first marathon ever. So. 60 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:07,880 I love it. I love it. 61 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,960 I think competing 'cause I I compete on the natural 62 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,560 Federations too. I think there's definitely 63 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,160 another level that, you know, comes along with that. 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,520 But to do so in the Masters category when everybody else is 65 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,680 suggesting that, hey, when you Crest, you know, 40 years old, 66 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,480 you got to be taking a whole bunch of gear in order to 67 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,520 maintain proper health and function. 68 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,520 So you're kind of dispelling all the rumors there, which is 69 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,880 pretty awesome. Yeah, thanks. 70 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,680 And you know, it's it's, I'm not against people using those 71 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,040 things. But what happens, I think when 72 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,120 you see a lot of people in the biohacking or or whatever 73 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:47,280 dietary advocacy, they're not revealing if they're augmenting 74 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,120 their diet and their training with peptides and hormones. 75 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,840 And for the average person, if they're not doing that, then 76 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,520 it's really distorting the information. 77 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,760 And I think that's a disservice to the public. 78 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,440 Like I said, I'm not against people doing that. 79 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:03,720 I think do whatever you can for your health. 80 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,120 But I wanted to be able to lay claim to, OK, these are what's 81 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,560 happening in an, you know, a non interventionist situation and 82 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,680 then you know, see what the results were. 83 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,680 Yeah, I think, you know, again, I don't have any issue with 84 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,760 people, you know, to each their own, so to speak. 85 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,040 But I think being transparent with it and just being honest 86 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,800 and upfront, so people that are trying to emulate similar 87 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,120 results and find their own path in life can have a realistic 88 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,920 expectation as to what's possible. 89 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,400 Are you saying that not everyone can look like Michael Hearn? 90 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,360 Not everyone can probably look like Michael Hearn. 91 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,280 He he's, he's always been in the, the circles. 92 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:42,560 I don't even know how old he is now, but he's he's getting on up 93 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,760 there. He's in his early 50s or he's 94 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,400 around my age. Wow. 95 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,320 And I see him at the gym regularly here at Dole's and you 96 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,000 know, whether he's enhanced or not, I would probably say that 97 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,080 he's on the enhanced side. I think it's probably safe to 98 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,600 say that. I mean, the guy's a a, a, a, a 99 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,480 physical specimen at any age, let alone being in his 50s, 100 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,720 people can say whatever they want it. 101 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,680 It takes a lot of work to to look the way he does. 102 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,080 Yeah, 100%. I got respect for people that 103 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,320 are in the gym and putting in the work, whether they're on 104 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,960 gear or not. And as long as they're honest 105 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,760 with it, you know, like, like I said, to each their own. 106 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,480 But you know, doing doing the the gym thing, being on top of 107 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,560 your nutrition like that is not a trivial endeavor. 108 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:28,800 And whether you decide to go to the enhanced rat or not, like 109 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,280 you still have earned my respect by living that lifestyle for. 110 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:35,040 Sure. Yeah. 111 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,080 How? How did y'all get connected and 112 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,440 they? So yeah, we're both from a small 113 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,720 city in Canada, Eastern Canada called Moncton, NB and we were 114 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,360 both personal trainers. Wade's mom used to come to the 115 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,400 gym and then Wade came back to visit his folks, and Wade and I 116 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,320 just connected. I was already planning on moving 117 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,320 to Vancouver. Wade was living there. 118 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,720 So Wade was kind of living my next dream and we just bonded. 119 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:05,600 The next thing you know, I moved to Vancouver. 120 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,440 Wade hooked me up there. We were two of the most 121 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,480 successful trainers at Rural's Gym, downtown Vancouver, and 122 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,880 then Wade was winning National Natural Bodybuilding 123 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,960 Championships as a vegetarian like 20 years ago. 124 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,160 So I'm like, that's pretty weird and unusual. 125 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:25,360 And I was building online businesses. 126 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,320 This is in 2002, 2003. And then I said, well, why don't 127 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,760 we try launching an info product? 128 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,720 So our first product was called Freaky Big. 129 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,640 Naturally, we put together a really comprehensive training 130 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,120 program and nutrition plan with some audio CDs and all of that 131 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,520 stuff and we launched it and it was successful right out of the 132 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,200 gate. And then Fast forward a year or 133 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,400 so later we met a man named Doctor Michael O'Brien that 134 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,680 really taught us about enzymes and probiotics. 135 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,040 So we did his protocol and we were just blown away by the 136 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,720 results to the point where we're like, hey, I think we need to 137 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,200 sell enzymes to the world cause at that time protein would had 138 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,040 really exploded. I mean, if you bought a 139 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,640 bodybuilding magazine, you probably had 40-50 pages of 140 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,600 protein ads. And the the missing link that I 141 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,600 think a lot of people don't understand is that you don't 142 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,920 want protein, you want amino acids. 143 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,760 And how do you get amino acids? Well, of course you have to 144 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,720 consume protein and your body has to break those down using 145 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,520 proteolytic enzymes to break down the amino acids into 146 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,680 absorbable components. So we decided to build our first 147 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,560 supplement which was called Mass Symes. 148 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,440 It was and still is the strongest protein digesting 149 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,040 enzyme blend that's ever been built. 150 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,400 We know because we've tested all of our competitors in the lab 151 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,240 and it's just a game changer in terms of utilizing the amino 152 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,560 acids from the protein. And Wei's got a great story that 153 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,480 he can share around how how many grams of protein he was 154 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,600 consuming as a plant based guy, which I think really illustrates 155 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:04,720 the power of them. Wait. 156 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:12,240 Yeah, so wind the tape back to, you know, most guys are 157 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,960 following a pound per gram, a pod body weight. 158 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,160 And you know, I'd compete around 175 S, walk around right at 200 159 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,640 lbs. And you know, in a diet 160 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,080 situation, you'd go to maybe up to 250. 161 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,000 And when I did do that 250 and try to do on a vegetarian side, 162 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,520 you couldn't do it. You had to do a lacto 163 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,280 vegetarian. And I was using whey protein and 164 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,919 I got myself into a digestive disaster after my first Mr. 165 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:40,679 Universe in 03 and that I gained 42 lbs of fat and water after 166 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,960 the contest in 11 weeks my digestive system and we we 167 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,960 started using enzymes to offset the problems of high protein 168 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,360 diets or indigestibility etcetera. 169 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,600 And I also switched to a raw food diet at that time, which is 170 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:03,440 really hard to get a lot of protein on a plant based diet, 171 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,000 but on a raw food diet it's even more difficult. 172 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:11,200 But over the course of four years using mass signs and also 173 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,320 P3M which is a proteolytic probiotic we use and some HCL, 174 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,640 we were able to take my protein load down to 85g and I went back 175 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:26,000 to the World Championships in 07 on 85 grams of protein a day on 176 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,960 it from a raw food sources. So that was about the limit that 177 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,240 I could go to. Below that I would start losing 178 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,480 muscle mass and and by the way, I actually had more muscle mass 179 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,720 in my that four years later than I had in the O3 contest. 180 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,440 So O3 to O7 now, years later. When I came back last year, I 181 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:52,960 was running between 120 and 150 grams As I've gotten older, even 182 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,120 despite all the good, you know, digestive components that I'm 183 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,960 using, you know, and I don't think that's a digestive issue. 184 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,560 I think it's actually just a cellular issue from, you know, 185 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:06,080 aging and degeneration and, you know, cellular damage and stuff. 186 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,280 I had to increase the protein to still maintain that same body 187 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,080 weight that I did before from a lean body mass perspective. 188 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,040 So that's just the evolution of life over a long period of time. 189 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,120 But you know, had I not used mass signs and P through OMI, 190 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,600 don't think I could have been competitive at this age. 191 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,600 Well, I definitely think that there is a massive void in the 192 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,200 in the informational space within the realms of 193 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,480 bodybuilding, specifically about the significance and importance 194 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,160 of proper nutrient absorption and digestion. 195 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,840 Like everybody's, like you said, is on their high horse with 196 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,320 regards to how much protein to consume. 197 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,560 There's, you know all different types of protein supplements and 198 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:47,080 mass gainers, but you could have your macros perfectly dialed in. 199 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,560 But if your body's failing to absorb what you're consuming, 200 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,360 then it's all for naughty. And I feel like that's just my 201 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,520 people pay that no mind, which is a massive misstep on their 202 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,400 part. There's another big piece. 203 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:59,920 Interesting. Oh yeah. 204 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,160 So go ahead, man. So I'm pretty good friends with 205 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,920 Ben Pokolski and I remember having breakfast with him. 206 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,640 For those of you who don't know who Ben was, he was one of the 207 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,200 top pro bodybuilders in the world, you know, weighed around 208 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,440 £300 at, you know, 5 foot 10. I mean he was, he was massive 209 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,080 and we were having breakfast and I'm like, you know, what's the 210 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,400 hardest part of being a pro bodybuilder? 211 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,640 And he said it's eating the food in the offseason. 212 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,880 Like, you know, dieting. Yeah, it's a bit challenging. 213 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,680 Training's a bit challenging. But, you know, for anybody who's 214 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,640 trying to gain a lot of weight and you're trying to consume 215 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:36,920 3456 plus 1000 calories a day, it puts an incredible strain on 216 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,440 your digestive system. And when we launched Mas Dimes, 217 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:45,440 we had guys like almost bragging in our forum about the ability 218 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,480 to go consume 8, nine, 10,000 calories a day, take a ton of 219 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,880 mass times and feel good. You know, not not be bloated and 220 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,680 maybe Wade. You can talk a little bit about 221 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:59,560 some of the, you know, the bad stories that have occurred in 222 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,920 the bodybuilding world with people blowing out the digestive 223 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,120 systems. Yeah, you really started to see 224 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,480 that happen. And this, which is interesting 225 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,200 since, you know, we were talking about keto diets and stuff. 226 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,120 There was a fellow that introduced the use of medium 227 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,640 chain triglycerides as an energy source. 228 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:23,520 His name was John Perillo and he had a lot of success in the late 229 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,720 80s, early 90s by, you know, leveraging it. 230 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,560 I actually wrote a paper in university on the carnitine 231 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,000 shuttle and MCTS and how it could bypass that and stuff. 232 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,520 It's very interesting, 'cause I was fascinated with the topic 233 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,680 and some of his clients, you know, he had Dennis Newman that 234 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,040 had some health challenges and he ended up with cancer that he 235 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,600 had Michael Francis, also a guy that blew out his digestive 236 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,280 system. And then as you started to go 237 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,600 through and this kind of came with the Super loading of drugs 238 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,200 in combination with the Super loading of calories to support 239 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,160 this, you know, the mass monsters. 240 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:03,080 And you started to see more that, you know, the distended 241 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,880 stomachs came out and people were getting bloating and and 242 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,320 then, you know, a whole assortment of errors. 243 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,800 And there's always been a lot of conjecture of what what was 244 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,160 causing those things. And you're starting to see now I 245 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,600 return backwards to those physiques and you look and look 246 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,440 at no further than say, Dexter Jackson that recognized his 247 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,040 digestive health issues were a problem and he was able to 248 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,040 correct those, you know, later in his career as a as a, you 249 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:31,360 know, masters. Mr. Olympia. 250 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,760 Yeah, Natalia Coelho is one of the tightest waistlines in Miss 251 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,600 Olympia. She's, you know, using her 252 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,000 products for the same reason. Big Romney also had some 253 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,000 digestive health issues and got wind of our stuff to help fix 254 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,000 some of his issues and what we're and even if you go back to 255 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,520 Ronnie Coleman, when he introduced his protein, he 256 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,160 started adding enzymes. We were probably the first 257 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,080 company to start talking about enzymes in the sports world. 258 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,720 So it's nice to see that it's going out there. 259 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:03,480 The problem is most companies are using white label cheap 260 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,920 enzymes and saying yeah we got enzymes too and once again the 261 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,000 consumer is taking the right action or the OR is deploying 262 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,440 the right strategy, but it's not going to get the the right 263 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,320 result because they don't have a quality based enzyme. 264 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,880 And so the variance, you know the the devil's in the details 265 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,920 and the variance in quality is absolutely significant. 266 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,680 We've proven some of the things in the lab. 267 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,400 Maybe you can talk about some of the lab results about converting 268 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,880 protein to amino acids relative to other leading brands, Matt, 269 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,680 so people can understand their difference. 270 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,480 So there's a laboratory test is considered the gold standard for 271 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,800 laboratory digestive testing. It's called Info Jest. 272 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,200 And we can basically simulate the digestive system and measure 273 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,280 how much amino acids have been broken, how much protein broke 274 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,920 down into amino acids. And when we compared, you know, 275 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,080 just putting in food in versus putting food plus mass times, 276 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,560 there was 1200% more amino acids and peptides in 30 minutes. 277 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,200 So that's it. We're not talking a twenty, 278 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,440 3040% difference. We're talking, you know, 1200% 279 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,600 more amino acids and peptides in just 30 minutes. 280 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,480 And you feel it that if you go consume a big meal with or 281 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,200 without mass signs, you know, wait 30-40 minutes, you'll feel 282 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,560 like, wow, I don't feel bloated. I don't feel gas. 283 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,800 I don't feel this heavy cement feeling in my gut and I know 284 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,840 this is a keto podcast, so maybe we can switch over to talking 285 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:40,520 about lipolytic enzymes, which is really critical for anybody 286 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,600 on a ketogenic diet. So it's a bit of background on 287 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,320 me. I've been doing keto since I'm 288 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,960 16, I'm gonna be 47 next month. So I've been doing keto for a 289 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,240 long time, mostly cyclical keto and tried every variant of keto. 290 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,600 But you know, it's kind of my go to and and what I do the 291 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,640 majority of the time and I realized, you know, having a lot 292 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,240 of clients try a ketogenic diet that some people could not 293 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,840 digest fats properly and then awaits one of them or cue them 294 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,880 up in a second. So that was a big clue that some 295 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,760 people just didn't have the lipases or produce the lipases 296 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,680 that they needed in order to break down the fats into 297 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,800 essential fatty acids and then absorb them and utilize them. 298 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,920 So I I went to work, I built a formula called K pax. 299 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:36,400 It has four different lipases, also has L carnitine, and has Co 300 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,600 Q10. So what we're trying to do, what 301 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,120 we are doing is breaking the fat down into essential fatty acids, 302 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,600 then helping the body absorb more of those fatty acids, 303 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,440 transporting them to the mitochondria and then utilizing 304 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,400 them. And if you take 4 to 5 capsules 305 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,360 in the morning on an empty stomach, you'll get 6 to 8 hours 306 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,640 of energy boost, maybe a 1520% energy boost with zero stem. 307 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,480 And I realized the first time I ever got the samples, I did that 308 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,839 experiment at like 3:00 PM and next thing you know, it was 309 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,599 like, you know, one or two in the morning. 310 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,800 And I I was still wide awake. So it definitely works for an 311 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,160 energy boosting component. Again, there's no caffeine, 312 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,920 there's no stimulants. It's just really a mitochondrial 313 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,839 booster and it's just it's just a game changer when you're 314 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,600 eating high fat meals and I know you have a keto brick, which I'm 315 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,040 a huge fan of that product by the way. 316 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,040 So when you're consuming a lot of fat like that for some 317 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:39,360 people, and even if you do break it down, you'll get a lot more 318 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,920 out of the fat keto brick for an example, consuming it with K pex 319 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,560 than you would without. And the last comment I want to 320 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,040 make is there's been a lot of paranoia about seed oil. 321 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,680 So what we did in the lab is we we ran a bunch of experiments. 322 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,000 You know, we imported a bunch of seed oils and we started testing 323 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,880 all of them. And the big question is, well, 324 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,400 what's so bad about seed oils? Well, there is a molecule called 325 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,880 maldealdehyde, MDA is the acronym. 326 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,480 And if you look at if you Google maldealdehyde and gene toxicity, 327 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,320 you'll see that you'll basically there is a lot of genetic 328 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,200 damage, cell damage that occurs with Maldealdehyde. 329 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,040 Now a couple of points, One is there was a lot of seed oils 330 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,400 that didn't have that. So again, there's just a lot of 331 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,200 throwing the baby out with the bat water with seed oils. 332 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:36,000 But what was amazing is when we took K pax and we exposed it to 333 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,840 these bad seed oils, we were able to break down the mount of 334 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,120 the aldehyde into fatty acids and essentially eliminate that, 335 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:46,880 that toxicity. And wait, maybe you can Share 336 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,880 your story around, you know, your struggle to breakdown fats. 337 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,000 Yeah, so back in the so one of the unique aspects that Matt and 338 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,760 I have is that we, because of our goals, our genetics, our 339 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:07,400 unique, you know, preferences which have both a biological and 340 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,160 psychological base, we have chosen different dietary 341 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,800 pathways and their boat is polar opposite. 342 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,560 In fact Matt's gone full carnivoire and I've gone full 343 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,120 raw vegan to to to go to the variance on that. 344 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,800 So and what makes it unique and we cover all these items in the 345 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,560 ultimate nutrition Bible. All the different rates is when 346 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:33,160 I was attempting to do a keto diet, when I would hit a certain 347 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,920 amount of fat in the diet and it wasn't that much relative. 348 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,280 It certainly wasn't significant enough to really get me into 349 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,080 what most people would call a, you know fat adapted ketogenic 350 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,360 kind of dietary lifestyle. I'd start having fat in the 351 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:50,120 stools, I would see the oil in the stools and I didn't feel 352 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:54,880 good and I was explaining to that to Matt and that's what led 353 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,880 him to investigate the fats. And what was interesting also is 354 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,120 I was running a holistic health clinic in Vancouver and when we 355 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:08,680 started giving people who had skin conditions lipolytic 356 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,000 enzymes, that's lipase based. So lipase breaks down fats, 357 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,800 proteases, breakdown protein. You know, amylase base breaks 358 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,480 down carbohydrates and I mean the cellulose base brings down 359 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,560 plant matter and then there's kind of branches off of those. 360 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,600 Well, turns out there's not just one type of lipase, there's 361 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,720 about four different types of lipases and there's a variety of 362 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,720 reasons of, you know, the pH environments and things, why 363 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,480 they work or the fats that they actually work on. 364 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,960 And so he put that product together which was really unique 365 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,480 to the ketogenic market and as soon as I did that, I could 366 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,680 increase my fats and I didn't have the digestive distress 367 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,800 anymore. So it solved that problem. 368 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,320 Now in the long run, it turns out that genetically I'm not as 369 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,240 suited to a fat based diet as I am a carbohydrate diet, which I 370 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,240 think is the inversion of what Matt's genetics have. 371 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,640 And we didn't know, we didn't have access to genetic tests 372 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,560 back then. These are just observational 373 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,160 things which are slow routes to get there. 374 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,920 Now we know this. And so The thing is, is you can 375 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,360 be successful on any diet that you want through whatever 376 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,080 preference, whether it's religious or psychological or 377 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,040 emotional or social reasons, if you are using the right 378 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,600 digestive aids to overcome what may be your genetic weaknesses 379 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,600 or some sort of damage that you've taken on. 380 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,360 Ideally you would correct any damage and then you would 381 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,840 optimize for your suitable, you know, goals. 382 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,840 What's that sport or etcetera. Makes total sense. 383 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,840 I'm curious, I'm not anti supplementation by any means. 384 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,080 I can definitely see the benefit to digestive enzymes, but why do 385 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,200 you think we as a species now need to have digestive enzymes 386 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,720 in order to fully absorb the food we consume? 387 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,120 You think that was always the case? 388 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,960 Or do you think this is a result of just a a shift in our 389 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,560 Physiology and environmental factors that now creates the the 390 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,640 more inherent need for it? Yeah, I studied this extensively 391 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,800 because I was curious as well. And so here's the historical 392 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,280 aspect, 'cause I I want to take one caveat to a lot of people 393 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,760 say, well, if you take enzymes, your body will stop producing 394 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,160 enzymes. That's not correct. 395 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,920 You can stop and discontinue enzymes and your body resumes 396 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,920 producing them from a digestive level. 397 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,240 But the body produces enzymes on a systemic level, and the 398 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,840 enzymatic capacity of an Organism is inversely related to 399 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,280 the duration of life of that Organism. 400 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,400 And that's a tenant out of Doctor Edward Howells. 401 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,920 Enzymes for health and longevity. 402 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,080 Or if you want the, you know, more readable version, you can 403 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,800 go to Enzyme nutrition. Those two books are very 404 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,760 powerful in illustrating how your enzymatic capacity now 405 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,400 every single species on the planet eats its food in a raw 406 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,080 state. Whether you know it's tigers 407 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,160 eating zebras, you know horses eating grass, you know bears 408 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,120 eating salmon and blueberries, you know that's the basics. 409 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,000 You know, herbivores, omnivores and carnivores, they all eat 410 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,320 them in a raw food state. Now, why is that important? 411 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,120 Well, you actually get the enzymes and probiotics that 412 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,000 would naturally occurring with that species with it. 413 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:23,360 Humans don't do that. Now, I'm not here to condemn the 414 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,480 improvements of the modern world. 415 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,520 You know, we've solved a lot of the problems that took out our 416 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,120 ancestors largely in part mass starvation and a lot to do with 417 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:38,040 death due to infection, whether that's parasitical or bacteria 418 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,320 infection. But particularly after World War 419 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:46,760 2 when we had a mass migration into the cities, before that as 420 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,360 well over 90% of the people had their local, had a, had a, you 421 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,440 know, farm access to food on their farm. 422 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,720 We moved into conventional or big commercial conglomerates 423 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,760 that were producing food. The governments of the world 424 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,040 stepped in to address the potential for famine by creating 425 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,080 government regulatory bodies and monoculture farming. 426 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,480 Now there's no place in the world that historically went 427 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,200 with monoculture farming. If you look at Aryuvedic 428 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,760 medicine, Chinese medicine, if you look at all the farming 429 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:27,040 practices around the world, you would rotate the crops and that 430 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,040 would re tool the soil so that you had all the nutrients. 431 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,440 You also didn't have herbicides, pesticides and fungicides. 432 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,040 All of those disrupt the enzymatic activity of both the 433 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,920 plants or any other you know pathogen. 434 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,040 Also the bugs in the soil. And then we add fertilizer which 435 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:51,560 grows the food at a faster rate, which diminishes the nutrient 436 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,560 content including the protein content within plants. 437 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,200 And so one of the reasons like hemp has been an unadulterated 438 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,200 plant source. It hasn't gone through the 439 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,320 conventional mechanism and it has higher levels of protein. 440 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,160 Same thing as you see of superfoods, most of them haven't 441 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,640 been altered by conventional medicine. 442 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,360 Well if you go down the, you know the last 60 years of or 70 443 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:15,600 year almost, I guess we're getting into the 80 year range. 444 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,640 Since that's happened, we've had a massive degradation of our 445 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,480 food. For example, an orange today you 446 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:27,200 would need 55 oranges to make up the nutrient content. 447 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:32,760 So we've had a calorie version of the dietary regulation we've 448 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,160 had, We've had conventional conventional growing. 449 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,440 We've got chemicalization of the plants. 450 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,880 We've got accelerated growth that is and and then we have all 451 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,080 these downward pressures on the enzymatic content that we would 452 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,640 normally consume under a raw food situation like every other 453 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,200 species. So we've offset the advantages 454 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,440 of the modern or the disadvantages of the modern 455 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,040 world with optimizing our digestive system. 456 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,480 And why is that important? Well, if you look at the data, 457 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,480 12% of the emergency hospital visits today, emergency hospital 458 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,840 that's going to the hospital and ambulance like a heart attack or 459 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,840 a major accident, 12% of them are related to gastrointestinal 460 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,720 issues, 100 million people in in the United States alone, that's 461 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,880 almost a third of the population in any given day is suffering 462 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,640 from digestive health and about 25% of those are on permanent 463 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,040 prescription medication for that. 464 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,760 All of that is largely in part because of the changes that 465 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,760 we've made in our dietary practice. 466 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,360 If we were living in a rural environment on super organic 467 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,920 food and eating in that environment, we probably 468 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,520 wouldn't exhaust our enzymatic capacity of production. 469 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,680 But the fact is, we are, and we're so far removed from what 470 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,800 humans normally and naturally ate that it's virtually 471 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,040 impossible to get everything you want out of the diet. 472 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,960 It's virtually impossible to get enough enzymes and to be able to 473 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,040 optimize your gut Biome so that you can, you know, be successful 474 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,360 in the diet you're following and avoid disease. 475 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,920 And that's why our company stepped in the gap. 476 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,120 We fixed these problems for ourselves. 477 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,640 We fixed them for our immediate clients and then we started a 478 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,960 company because we understood that this is going to be not a 479 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,120 diminishing problem but a massive problem. 480 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:23,040 And we're seeing the side effects of people not taking 481 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,520 this into account. So I don't think we can get out 482 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,480 of our modern diets without supplementation anymore. 483 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,520 Yeah, it it is kind of crazy, man. 484 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:36,120 Like I've tried to make it a point to return to as primitive 485 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:39,200 a means as possible with regards to my, you know, procuring my 486 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,480 food. Like a hunt for a lot of my 487 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,520 food. We we started raising our own 488 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,440 animals that we've got our own chickens, sheep. 489 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,880 We're doing like rotational grazing with them, doing our own 490 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:48,960 gardening. Like it. 491 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,720 It's a lot more effort, but in fact it's a lot more rewarding 492 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,400 because you don't have to you can just bypass all the the 493 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,400 noise the modern societal system brings to the equation with 494 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,440 regards to where their food comes from. 495 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,560 But it's, I mean not everybody can do that. 496 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,440 So it's not really a scalable practice so to speak. 497 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,720 Just as a question about that, I'm curious, 'cause I'm a big 498 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,840 advocate of those models, what did you notice as a difference 499 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,560 when you moved from, you know, buying your foods at grocery 500 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,840 stores and stuff to buy, getting your stuff on in your own, from 501 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,760 your own harvest? Well, it's kind of happened over 502 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,080 a pretty long period of time. Like, I've been in Keto for I 503 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,560 guess 8-9 years now, and I noticed a pretty profound shift 504 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,320 in how I felt physically and emotionally and like recovery 505 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,760 and joint health and inflammation. 506 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,960 Once I made that switch, because that by definition removed a lot 507 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,800 of the processed foods. But then once I really started 508 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,400 sourcing all of my meat from quality sources, like I was 509 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,040 pretty well dialed in, nutritionally speaking at that 510 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,800 point. So I I didn't notice a stark 511 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,240 contrast. My motivation for doing that, 512 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,720 honestly, is more so because I don't want to, you know, you 513 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,560 vote with your dollar. I don't want to pay into the 514 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,880 system that is destroying the livelihood of, you know, rural 515 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,280 farmers and ranchers. And I just feel like from a a 516 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,480 Wellness standpoint towards the animals, like I'd rather provide 517 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,120 them a better quality of life and do so in a more holistic 518 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,920 pattern. Plus, I mean just bringing it 519 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,120 all the way down to my own personal well-being, like 520 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,480 raising my family, raising my son in an environment where he 521 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,560 knows where his food comes from, he sees the fruits of his labor 522 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,200 and taking care of the land, being good steward of the land, 523 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,840 taking care of the animals that we then harvest for food. 524 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,360 Like it really just completes the whole circle of life. 525 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,080 And I think that is how we were designed as a species to procure 526 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,440 our food. But we're so far removed from 527 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,800 that, that any step that we can take to get closer to that is 528 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,840 well warranted. Of that, yeah, me too. 529 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,800 I'm I'm. I'm intrigued by the fact that 530 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,640 both of our OPS ends of spectrum, though, because that 531 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,360 that's cool. Like I've had hardcore 532 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,480 carnivores on the podcast. I've had hardcore vegans on the 533 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,400 podcast and there's so much differentiation between the two 534 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,240 but to have both of Y'all in the same conversation and on the 535 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,560 same team, you know speaks well of both Y'all's character. 536 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,160 I'm I'm curious in regards to gut health as that's both 537 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,720 Y'all's expertise. You know when when you go from a 538 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,080 vegan diet to a carnivore diet or vice versa, your gut 539 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,400 microbiome is going to shift drastically the the need for 540 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,200 fiber shifts. You know making short chain 541 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,680 fatty acids in the in the gut can y'all kind of just speak to 542 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,240 that As far as what y'all consume and how y'all's 543 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,920 digestive, you know microbiome is likely night and day as well. 544 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,240 Yeah, I'll start by just talking about the differences and Wade 545 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,560 and I argued for a very long time. 546 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,720 I was a keto zealot. I thought everybody should be on 547 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,760 a ketogenic diet. I thought it was the greatest 548 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,280 thing ever. We felt similarly with a plant 549 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,800 based diet and we debated and we debated. 550 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,960 But then as we went deeper, we realized that one, it doesn't 551 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,480 work for everybody, there is no one diet fits all. 552 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,840 Second, we found that there was common ground. 553 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,320 And probably the 1st place we found common ground was around 554 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,320 digestive optimization And when we started using enzymes and 555 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,320 then proteolytic probiotics like P3, OM, and hydrochloric acid 556 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,640 and K PAX and all these things we found, well, this will work 557 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,400 for anybody. Like, doesn't matter what diet 558 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,280 you're on, maybe there's a better form of enzyme for you, 559 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,400 but every person could benefit from utilizing enzymes. 560 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,320 And just a quick comment, I did a gut health test, a probiotic 561 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,440 test, and that was the experiment. 562 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,720 I was on a ketogenic diet, got a sample, sent it, started eating 563 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,040 plant based for about 10 days, sent another sample, and yeah, 564 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,720 your gut changes. Your gut's incredibly dynamic. 565 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,240 The director of our labs, we have a lab with 20 full time 566 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,880 people in Europe. She has a PhD in probiotics and 567 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,600 of course it's just been a master class working with her 568 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,840 now for about four years. And the gut's incredibly dynamic 569 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,920 cause probiotics have about a 48 hour lifespan, which means that 570 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,760 every meal you're eating is having some form of impact on 571 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,800 your gut Biome. And yeah, your gut's going to 572 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,960 adapt an incredibly adaptive environment. 573 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,840 And of course there's certain things that will harm it. 574 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,280 There's certain other things that will help it and we do have 575 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,080 a product called microbiome breakthrough that in terms of, I 576 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,680 would say optimizing your overall gut health, probably the 577 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,720 best product we have it. It really helps to create a 578 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,760 healthy biofilm, helps kill a lot of the bad bugs. 579 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,400 We do a lot of UFC style events in the lab where we put one 580 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,480 probiotic strain versus another, see which one prevails and 581 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,720 sometimes they don't get along and they kill each other and we 582 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,240 want the good guys to kill the bad guys, right? 583 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,040 We formulated that product. P3 OM is also incredible at 584 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,560 killing bad guys. But yeah, as far as you know, 585 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,880 personally I'll pass it on to Wade because he is the fiber 586 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,200 king. I'm primarily probably 4050% 587 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:04,640 protein, 35 to 40% fat, and five to 10% carbs. 588 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,280 I will say this is a pro tip I learned from Kevin Weiss, who 589 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,480 you know was a world champion natural bodybuilder. 590 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,440 Wade actually competed with them, World champion powerlifter 591 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:20,800 natural, and his strategy was to slowly lower the percentage of 592 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,400 fat to get shredded. And if you look at you know if 593 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,800 you're on a kyogenic diet, you're getting started getting 594 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:33,800 to 7075% fat to really force the body to become efficient and 595 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,840 effective at breaking down fats makes sense. 596 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,960 But once you're fat adapted you can start reducing that 597 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,880 percentage and and replacing it with protein and what happens is 598 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,720 1. Your net calories are going to 599 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,800 decrease. You're going to be more 600 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,960 anabolic, right. So you're you're going to have a 601 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,160 stronger anabolic response in general from weight training and 602 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,240 it it's a great strategy to to still have satiety while 603 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,760 lowering your net calories to get shredded. 604 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,480 So again, I've just shifted my fat percentage down and the 605 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,360 other thing I've done is I've replaced my fats. 606 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,639 And you know, for anybody who's in a ketogenic diet, strongly 607 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:17,120 advocate getting a genetic test. One of the things it revealed 608 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,400 for me is I don't have good genetics for saturated fats. 609 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,679 And the one thing I've struggled to optimize on a personal basis 610 00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:29,239 has been my lipid profile. So what I'm doing now is I've 611 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,880 lowered my saturated fat intake and I've replaced that with 612 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,960 olive oil, which is mono saturated. 613 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,440 So I think optimizing your fats is one of the key things that 614 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,040 you want to do on a ketogenic diet. 615 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,040 Then I'll pass it on to Wei so he can talk about what he's 616 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,280 doing. Yeah. 617 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:52,639 So I was always fascinated with the concepts around fat 618 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:59,880 metabolism and as well as the benefits of fasting and you know 619 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,200 the physiological and cognitive changes that happened during 620 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,960 extensive fasts as. Well, because essentially. 621 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,240 You're doing a a lot of what you're doing is similar to a 622 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,560 ketogenic diet. You're basically reducing your 623 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,240 dependency on carbohydrates so that your body starts to fuel 624 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:20,080 itself on fats. Now you can do that over an 625 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,080 extended diet on severe calorie restriction. 626 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,400 The problem with any severe calorie restriction, and 627 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,160 everybodybuilder knows that is there's a point of diminishing 628 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,240 returns. There's a point where you you're 629 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,520 kind of like you, you're creating a you're crafting a 630 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,280 strategy to overcome the body's tendency to overeat for 631 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,000 survival. You're under eating to create a, 632 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,680 you know, a subjective outcome, and you're countering all these 633 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,520 evolutionary measures. And so what's interesting, I 634 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,320 think bodybuilders are the O GS of biohacking, biological 635 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,880 optimization, whatever you want to call that. 636 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,000 One of the technologies and techniques they were using were 637 00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,880 to overcome genetics were involved in that. 638 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,240 And that's why I think people like myself and Matt who had a 639 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,600 strong background in in yourself, have a strong 640 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,240 background in bodybuilding. You're simply forced into 641 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:11,880 situations to really work things out. 642 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,920 And so for me, what I realized is that the diet strategy that 643 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,640 bodybuilders were regularly deploying, deploying especially 644 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,960 back in the 80s and 90s was a high protein, high carbohydrate, 645 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,200 low body fat. And the idea was as you're 646 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,920 fueling your glycogen stores, but the the total calorie 647 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,360 deficit was going to allow you to tap in those fat stores and 648 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,640 make the fats part of your metabolic process and that 649 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,960 worked relatively successful. The problem is you get into 650 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,400 blood sugar regulation issues for a lot of people, but you 651 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,560 whether you're using either eating too much food or you have 652 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,880 to use simple refined carbohydrates most of the most. 653 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,040 Of the top. Bodybuilders today use like Stan 654 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,200 Efrig's kind of stuff, where they're just manipulating right 655 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,120 white rice, because it's for a lot of people, it's easier to 656 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,760 digest than anything else, and you can just up it or down it, 657 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:14,520 depending on your conditioning. What I did is I chose to say, 658 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,240 OK, well I'm not going to get as much protein in the diet. 659 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,440 And one of the key caveats for people if you don't get enough 660 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,880 protein in your diet, you're going to crave carbohydrates. 661 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,280 And now in a keto jar they're they're they're offsetting that 662 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,160 with high amounts of fats which creates satiety. 663 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,760 Protein also creates satiety. So when you when I would drop 664 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,920 that down a certain amount, my cravings for carbohydrates went 665 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:42,000 up and what I did to offset that is I increased my fiber 666 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,760 components. So I take 5I, I'm, I'm about an 667 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:51,640 85 to 100 grams of fiber a day just to give you a, a, a, an 668 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,560 indication, which is you know, both, yeah. 669 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,600 It's about three times. What is considered, you know, 670 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,720 what you would need to optimize for health. 671 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,760 And there's a bunch of studies I put on our Facebook page and 672 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,880 stuff like that about, you know, the different types of fiber and 673 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,240 and from longevity perspectives, and I think fiber does one 674 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:14,000 particular purpose. It feeds the bacteria in your 675 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,320 guts that allows you to produce all of these wonderful array of 676 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,840 chemicals that they use that her body requires. 677 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,560 So the whole point of what I'm trying to communicate is there's 678 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:31,080 different ways to slice, you know slice the onion you, but 679 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,880 you're going to have to find some way to create satiety in 680 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,200 the body. And for some people that's 681 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,760 better with fats, some people it's better with protein. 682 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,400 And for plant based people, I would say you wanna be able to 683 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,200 do that with protein and fiber in particular because you're 684 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,960 just gonna not gonna have enough protein to kill satiety. 685 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:51,680 No, I. I love it. 686 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,200 I love going against the grain and kind of testing things out. 687 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,880 And I'm 100% agreement with you in that. 688 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,800 Bodybuilders, I mean bodybuilders, tend to operate on 689 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,400 the extreme fringe anyway, So we like pushing the envelope to see 690 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,000 what works and what doesn't. And I mean, we've all gotten 691 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,160 incredibly lean. So we've all been able to prove 692 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,960 that there's various methods or ways to skin a cat. 693 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,440 As the saying goes, like when I'm doing a cut, I tend to keep 694 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:17,800 my fat ratio pretty high, have zero fiber, and I'll oftentimes 695 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,400 take my protein down pretty low relative to my fat because I'm 696 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,920 using the fat for the energy. And I feel like the ketones help 697 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:25,360 from a mental clarity standpoint. 698 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,720 And I'll sometimes transition to like a one meal a day because I 699 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:31,440 think so much of hunger and satiety is also psychological. 700 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,200 And if you are obsessing about food and eating every two hours, 701 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,840 as is traditionally prescribed in bodybuilding protocols, like 702 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,240 you just constantly fixated on food, which is going to increase 703 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:44,080 the desire for food. So by doing like a one meal a 704 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,520 day approach, I'm getting a longer fasting window. 705 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,760 I've got relatively high fat to protein and I've taken my 706 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,360 protein really low without a noticeable drop in lean tissue, 707 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,400 which which is interesting because you know, you talk to 708 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,600 traditional bodybuilders and like, if you take anything in 709 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,720 less than, you know, 1g per pound of lean mass and you're 710 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,040 just gonna be wasting away. And that hasn't been the case 711 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,360 for me once fat adapted. But I mean, there's so many 712 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,640 different ways to do it, like like we're all three doing a 713 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,400 slightly different protocol, but we've all found success with it, 714 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,280 which is interesting. Yeah, I think there's big 715 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,440 factors. There's genetic factors and 716 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,480 methylation cycles and stuff as well. 717 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,440 Matt, go ahead. Yeah, because. 718 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,800 Calories in, calories out is the truth. 719 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,880 It's the laws of thermodynamics and doesn't really matter. 720 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,240 I mean, it was the guy who did the junk food diet. 721 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:39,600 He was eating Cheez, ITS and all kinds of junk, But I think he 722 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,560 was eating around 1800 calories a day and he lost body fat. 723 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,600 His biomarkers got better. Of course we're not advocating 724 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,680 that there's another guy who did the Mcsnake, the McDonald's 725 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,880 Mcsnake diet where he was just eating 1 McDonald meal per day, 726 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,040 but his calories were in check. And you know, he he actually 727 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,400 improved his biomarkers doing that for 30 days. 728 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,240 And I think that's something that gets lost a lot. 729 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:07,120 You know, the Super Size Me documentary obviously really 730 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,160 vilified McDonald, but the guy was, you know, over consuming 731 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,040 calories and of course if you over consume sugar, which is a 732 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,480 different issue, right? If you over consume sugar and 733 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,960 your blood Sugar's out of control, that will accelerate at 734 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,440 ageing. That will create glycation 735 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,720 aging, you know, end products. So there's gonna be a lot of 736 00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:29,920 consequences to high blood sugar. 737 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,560 There's gonna be consequences to having an excess of calories, 738 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,960 which is kind of independent of what diet style that you're on. 739 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,800 Course, you can make things work better by consuming more fiber, 740 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,800 more protein, healthy fats, which is what I think we're all 741 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,320 advocating. But there's a lot of people 742 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,840 trying to frame certain types of diets, whether it's keto or 743 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,040 intermittent fasting or this or that, as some sort of magical 744 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,560 solution. But when you really break it 745 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,480 down into calories, you know, ultimately if you're eating less 746 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,840 calories, then you're, you're burning, you're going to lose 747 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,040 body fat, you're going to lose weight, you eat more calories 748 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,000 than you're burning, you're going to gain body fat and gain 749 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,480 some weight. So, you know, I I think it's 750 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,840 important to emphasize that. Yeah, totally. 751 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,480 And just to add. To that, Yeah. 752 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,280 Just to add to that, if it's OK, so essentially what are what are 753 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,160 high, you know, high performance athletes doing is they're 754 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,920 ultimate, they're alterating their calories, burnt mode, Same 755 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,440 thing if you are taking any type of beta 2 andrenidis drug that's 756 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,640 stimulating metabolism. If you are improving 757 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,920 mitochondrial function or if you're say training at altitude 758 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,360 or in altitude machines or you're subjecting yourself to, 759 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:53,440 you know, cold water or cold therapy or or you're setting 760 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,840 yourself up to, you know, hot temperatures so that there's 761 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,640 metabolic things. So there are ways to manipulate 762 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,720 your metabolism or slow cardio or multiple workouts or all of 763 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:08,800 these. And this is where bodybuilders 764 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,640 and high performance athletes have a different model than say 765 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,080 a lot of the biohackers which are saying, you know, exercise 766 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,760 as little as possible and do a bunch of gadgets and you know 767 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,200 don't even take all the drugs that you want. 768 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,320 But these guys are doing it on the opposite side. 769 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,120 I think high performance health, if we're looking at that, you're 770 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,720 looking at every which way that you can increase the calorie 771 00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:37,080 burn if your goal is, you know, improve body fat composition. 772 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:43,600 And that's a topic that as you age, generally your metabolism 773 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,400 slows down and you need more mitigation strategies in order 774 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,200 to really optimize that. But the sooner people get 775 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,680 involved in that, I think the the easier it is, is to maintain 776 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,000 their body fat levels. Yeah, 100%. 777 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,960 And I think it oftentimes goes unsaid, but there's an equally 778 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:02,760 important sign of the spectrum of, you know, having periods of 779 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,320 time in a caloric surplus to ramp up that metabolism like 780 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,480 reverse dieting and post show. So many people fail to do that 781 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,200 correctly and they just chronically depress their 782 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,600 metabolic rate, which is, you know, no good either. 783 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,520 And I feel like when you're on the opposite of the spectrum, 784 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,680 increasing your intake, a lot of people hit a threshold there. 785 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,680 And I think it becomes, I mean, when you're on the extremes, 786 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,240 whether you're on a caloric deficit or in a caloric surplus, 787 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:30,520 like, you are much more in tune with how your body is performing 788 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,200 and responding to that intake. Like when you're in a deficit, 789 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,240 you know, I obviously try to focus on nutrient densities, 790 00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:38,720 that my body's mineral requirements are all accounted 791 00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,920 for and everything that is there is, is there. 792 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,120 But when you're on a surplus side of the spectrum, like if if 793 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,680 you're taking in a whole bunch of processed foods and just junk 794 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,720 calories, like you're not going to feel. 795 00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:52,160 And if you're not absorbing those excess calories, well then 796 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,760 you're not doing yourselves any favors there. 797 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,560 But I think people often times fail to spend time in a surplus 798 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,160 and reap all the benefits of that. 799 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,440 But I think when you do that, you know, paying even more mind 800 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,240 to the absorption of that food that you're consuming, the types 801 00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:10,480 of food that you're consuming, you know, getting in those 802 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,320 enzymes if necessary is is paramount as well, no? 803 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,080 That's a critical. Point and you know in our 804 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,520 opinion, in our experience like if you're at about a 300 to 500 805 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,720 calorie Max surplus and you're lifting weights properly 3456 806 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:30,360 times a week, you're going to link to gain lean muscle mass. 807 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,600 And I will say, and this is an important point that I think is 808 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,320 is missed, especially people doing intermittent fasting. 809 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,840 If you want to gain maximum amount of lean muscle mass, you 810 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,000 need more protein feedings per day because of the M Tor 811 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,960 activation effects. You know, if you're getting 3 812 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,280 grams of leucine per meal, say four times a day or three times 813 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,480 a day at least compared to one time, you're spending a much 814 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,000 higher percentage of your day in kind of maximum anabolic growth. 815 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:03,800 And there's been guys like Peter Tia and Tim Ferriss that said, 816 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,760 well, we stopped intermittent fasting because our weight's the 817 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,480 same, but we've lost lean body mass. 818 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,760 And we truly believe that the reason for that is the M Tor 819 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,880 activation piece, which a lot of people are not that aware of. 820 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,080 And it's a really simple thing to do. 821 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,040 You know, again, you just gotta make sure you're getting up with 822 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,880 three grams of leucine per meal. A lot of food will have that 823 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,640 whey protein, will, will give you that pea protein is rich in 824 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,000 leucine or you can just supplement with leucine straight 825 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,400 up. It's a very inexpensive 826 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,120 supplement. But yeah, I'm a big believer 827 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,680 that in in reverse dieting, I've done the mistakes before. 828 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,640 I know Wade has as well. And Wade, maybe talk about your 829 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,400 42 lbs of fat and water story. Yeah, that's. 830 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,520 Well, that's that. Essentially that what that's 831 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,760 what happened when I competed in the 2003 Mr. Universe contest 832 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:59,440 and I first got hip to the problems and and I had a diet 833 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,920 for 11 straight months and the strategy we're deploying was 834 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,680 kind of a revolutionary 90s strategy. 835 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,160 It was developed by Scott, Abel, and Scott, what was unique about 836 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,640 him, he was doing high glycemic carbs with high amounts of 837 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,760 protein. So the idea was, is that you're 838 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,040 using, you're keeping your insulin levels high to drive the 839 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,560 amino acids in the muscles so that you could recover from you 840 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,760 know what I would call high volume type training 'cause his? 841 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,640 His training programs were pretty significant and the idea 842 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,920 was as over in a long period of time you would harden yourself 843 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,600 up. Now, normally you would do a 844 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:45,640 dietary phase of, you know, somewhere between. 16 and 20. 845 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,560 Weeks. Scott always would get his 846 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:52,160 competitors like several weeks. You know, in like 5 weeks out, 847 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,680 you were basically in shape. So he wanted it so that you 848 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,640 could manipulate water and, you know, tightness and all that 849 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,840 sort of stuff. That really is the difference 850 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,360 between a gym body and a stage body. 851 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,560 And there's a big difference. And I've seen a million guys 852 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,600 that look great in the gym and look terrible on stage and 853 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,160 someone that looks kind of scrawny in the gym look amazing 854 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,920 on stage. It's the variance. 855 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,680 You would know this. It's it's it's hard to fathom 856 00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,040 and fathom unless you've actually been to a competition 857 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,400 and seen the difference in the people. 858 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:24,960 Now the problem was, is that year I had to diet literally for 859 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,960 11 straight months because when I qualified for my, the Western 860 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,280 Canadians and I went to the national championships, then 861 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,440 that was in the middle of the year, which was already 862 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,520 extending me to, you know, 2028 weeks or something like that. 863 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,560 Then it was another four months before we were. 864 00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:43,880 Going to. Compete at the World 865 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,480 Championship. So I I stayed on this hyper 866 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:54,600 caloric restricted diet for 11 months and using the high 867 00:48:54,600 --> 00:49:01,040 glycemic carbohydrates really made you fluctuate on the blood 868 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:06,120 sugar levels significantly. So when I got off that diet I 869 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,160 literally couldn't control my eating. 870 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,960 I was completely out of control and I couldn't get enough 871 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,880 carbohydrates in the system, Simple carbohydrates. 872 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,760 And I was eating everything. I mean, it was just like mania 873 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,760 and you know, which didn't help my digestive condition either. 874 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,320 So I probably killed off all the good bacteria in my stomach 875 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,120 during the restrictive dieting. And then I went and, you know, 876 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,600 disrupted my metabolism from extensive calorie deprivation. 877 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,960 Then I just started eating massive amounts of every kind of 878 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,320 food that you could possibly stuff in your face. 879 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,760 Most of it wouldn't be on the health side. 880 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,160 And then, you know, 42 lbs later, I felt better. 881 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,360 Funny enough, I actually felt better. 882 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,560 But I always say I went from Mr. Universe to Mr. Marshmallow and 883 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,560 that's when we got wind of digestive health and how to 884 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,080 correct that. That's when I, you know, 885 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,640 experimented with a raw food diet. 886 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,200 That's when I started tweaking, you know, protein and satiety 887 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,920 and enzymes and the things that we've mentioned here and 888 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,280 realized there was a massive gap in the market about people's 889 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,360 understanding about the difference between theory and 890 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:16,120 practice and the consequences of extended calorie deprivation. 891 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:22,040 Now to to to Scott's credit, you know, I was being pushed into a 892 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,480 situation that was very unusual and I wasn't augmenting with 893 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,160 hormones. Most of his athletes were. 894 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,080 And so that would offset some of the downside from a performance 895 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,840 standpoint. And the other thing is, is most 896 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,520 of the athletes that he had when you got into shape, you would 897 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,640 just be doing a cycle diet where once a week you're you're, you 898 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:45,440 know, you're tweaking your calories 3 even four times your, 899 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,320 you know, your basal metabolic rate once a week to keep your 900 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,640 metabolism up. So you know, it takes time to 901 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,240 correct those things. In that case, it took me about 902 00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:58,880 six months to correct what I had done. 903 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,840 And for a lot of other people, especially on the female side, 904 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,720 they do, you know, it takes years oftentimes to recover from 905 00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:11,920 the metabolic damage they do. So we suggest in our book about 906 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,480 how to do it properly, how to, how to cycle in up calorie 907 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,760 cycles. And then once you maintain, how 908 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,520 to use what we call fasting and feasting strategy, like fasting 909 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,920 for, you know, 24 or 48 to 48 hours once a week or you know 910 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,840 periodically once a month. And then also having cyclical 911 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,040 like feasting sessions where you have a day that's completely 912 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,880 off, do whatever you want. And that's actually a requisite 913 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,840 in order to maintain your metabolism. 914 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,440 Yeah, I think modulating. Your intake is is super 915 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,960 important. That's why I'm not an advocate 916 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,120 for people competing every single year. 917 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,360 I mean, if you spend, you know, like my last prep was 33 weeks 918 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,920 long and then I spent, you know, 3-4 months reverse dieting. 919 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,440 If I was to go right back into another prep, you know, like I 920 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:55,840 wouldn't have any building phase. 921 00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,720 And so many competitors compete every single year, and they wind 922 00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:00,920 up looking worse and worse and worse when they step on stage, 923 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,440 as opposed to better and better and better, which is the entire 924 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,960 goal of the sport. Yeah, I agree with you and it's. 925 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,120 What was it that caused you to come to the realization of that? 926 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,760 I'm. I'm curious cause not everybody 927 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,920 makes that jump. Well, I mean with natural. 928 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,520 Bodybuilding, especially like it takes time to put on lean 929 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:19,920 tissue. Especially if you're a mature 930 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,320 athlete and you've been lifting for, you know, 10 plus years as 931 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,000 I have. Like any minuscule gain in 932 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,360 actual muscle tissue, takes a long time. 933 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,200 And if you're spending more time in a deficit than you are in a 934 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,280 surplus with progressive overloading your training, then 935 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,760 you're just simply not going to build you know, a reasonable 936 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,480 amount of lean tissue to look markedly better the next time 937 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,720 you step on stage like I did. 5 shows this past season I 938 00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:45,400 probably won't compete again for there four or five years, so I 939 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,240 can focus on just getting bigger so that the next time I step on 940 00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:49,880 stage it's game over. Lights out. 941 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,120 Yeah, yeah, I've I've. I've noticed the same things and 942 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,000 it's interesting how its natural bodybuilders are. 943 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,040 You know, there's a perspective difference that we have than say 944 00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:06,120 people who are just going hog wild on the augmentation. 945 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:10,000 So yeah, it's like like. You you want to play, you know, 946 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,560 you want to put longevity and true health as a priority. 947 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,600 I think natural athletes tend to do that kind of by default more 948 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,320 often than not. Not always, but more often than 949 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,400 not. And I feel like, you know, if 950 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,120 you're, I mean being in that caloric deficit, being sub 5% 951 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,480 body fat is not a natural phenomenon anyways. 952 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,480 It's very hard on your metabolism, very hard on your 953 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,680 hormones. So to do that every single year 954 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,800 is asking a lot of your body. People just need to embrace each 955 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,840 phase they're in. Like like when you're a 956 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,480 competitor and you are sub 5% body fat and you look great on 957 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,520 show show day, you look great in pictures. 958 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,840 Like it's easy to want to just stay there. 959 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,880 But you just have to embrace that extra fluff that comes with 960 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,840 being in a in a strategic offseason and you know, 961 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:53,760 appreciate that phase for what it is as well. 962 00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:59,160 It's so great that you said. That I think a lot of people in 963 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,280 the sport who are cosmetically driven in health or they they 964 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:08,160 lose sight of what appears as healthy or or optimal is not 965 00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,400 necessarily what appears optimal from a visual standpoint is not 966 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,280 necessarily optimal for health. Have you noticed with clients 967 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,800 and stuff that the variance between their what their body's 968 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,480 kind of comfortable at in a in a in a fat percentage range. 969 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:27,520 Like for me 12% is on a DEXA scan is where I like to walk 970 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,880 around naturally like like to me it's easy. 971 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,280 But I do notice as soon as I start slipping into below that 972 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:39,640 and into single digits my my hunger awareness starts to up 973 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,960 right or my ability to kind of go off and find reasons to go 974 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,360 off the diet become more prevalent. 975 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,320 It's a really interesting game psychologically. 976 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,360 Now, some people, they're naturally really lean. 977 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:52,840 Some people are naturally a little heavier. 978 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:54,360 Yeah, no, totally. I mean the. 979 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,840 Whole argument of you know, having a homeostatic set point. 980 00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,040 I think there's a lot of truth to that. 981 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,640 Like for me right now, I've just finished my reverse diet 20 982 00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:05,200 weeks post show and I'm. I just got a Dexit last week and 983 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,440 I was 13.1, which is pretty much where my body feels comfortable. 984 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,040 That's where it wants to gravitate to. 985 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,960 And at that body fat percentage, I mean all of my lifts are going 986 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,680 up. I'm I'm literally consuming 987 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,200 between 4500 and 5500 calories a day. 988 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,560 And it feels right. I don't fix it on food. 989 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,080 It feels very natural to me. But yeah, I feel like 990 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,400 everybody's got a different homeostatic set point, so to 991 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:30,680 speak. Genetics are going to come into 992 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,200 play a lot with that and lifestyle. 993 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,600 And just the length of time you spend at a given body fat 994 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,000 percentage is also going to dictate that too. 995 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,720 That's just where your body, you know, naturally gravitates. 996 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,520 So it takes time to kind of push that One Direction or the other. 997 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,920 But I think, you know, generally speaking, if you're an athlete, 998 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,400 if you're training with, you know, progressive overload 999 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,760 resistance training, you know, being somewhere between that, 1000 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,920 you know, 11/12/13 up to maybe 15% body fat for a male is a 1001 00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,640 relatively healthy range to be in the majority of the time. 1002 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,880 Yeah, that's what I've found. So 100. 1003 00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,480 Percent I'm curious on the the raw vegan and since I got a 1004 00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,960 carnivore and a vegan on here you you had mentioned earlier 1005 00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,360 about every other species in the wild eats food raw. 1006 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,160 You know there's been a push for raw carnivore that's getting a 1007 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,600 lot of popularity to get curious to get your take on that man. 1008 00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,800 But then wade you know a lot of people point to our digestive 1009 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,680 tracts as a species for instance and make arguments one way or 1010 00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,800 the other saying what we should or should not eat what is a 1011 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,720 species appropriate diet. You know we don't have near the 1012 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,040 digestive tract that an orangutan does for instance we 1013 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,840 don't have like that elongated cecum. 1014 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,440 Some would argue that we're not designed to consume a ton of raw 1015 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,080 vegetation because the fermentation process is just not 1016 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,520 adequate in our digestive tract. We don't have a rumen. 1017 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,080 What? What's your take on that? 1018 00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:50,960 Yeah, great. Question. 1019 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,840 In fact, it was that question that led me to a plant based 1020 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,960 diet. I read a book by the fellow by 1021 00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,440 the name of Swami Sri Akhteswar. He was Paramansi Yoga, Nando's 1022 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,720 guru guy that kind of really started the whole yoga movement 1023 00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:06,920 in the West. Meditation, all that sort of 1024 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,120 stuff came here in turn of the century. 1025 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,760 And in his book he he did a really firm analysis. 1026 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,840 He he analyzed where we are in the universe and, you know, the 1027 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,320 whole Physiology and psychology of mankind. 1028 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,520 And one of the things that he did is he did a comparison 1029 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:28,520 analysis between herbivores, carnivores and omnivores. 1030 00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,600 And what he did is he compared the canines, the the way the 1031 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,640 teeth are. He compared the nervous system 1032 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:43,040 response to, you know, the attraction of food, and then he 1033 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,520 looked at the length of the digestive canal, particularly 1034 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,040 what what very it is, is, is he. Most people have to take the 1035 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,720 length of the digestive canal not as the length of the whole 1036 00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:59,560 body, but as the length of between the the shoulder and the 1037 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:05,960 your hips because leg length and arm length you know, varies 1038 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:11,800 extensively in the species. And So what he found is and the 1039 00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,640 shape of the stomach as well. So if we get carnivore type 1040 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,920 animals, they have a shorter intestine, they got a more bolus 1041 00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,960 type stomach, they have canines that actually rip and separate 1042 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,080 flesh. Humans don't possess those. 1043 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,920 Bears have both. They have both the grinding 1044 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,960 teeth and they have, you know, the incisors that can rip flesh, 1045 00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,520 which makes them, you know, very much more flexible than humans. 1046 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,400 And the other thing was is if you take a tiger and a tiger 1047 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,960 runs out and, you know, bites into a zebra and the blood is 1048 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,240 jetting out of it and stuff, there's a nervous system 1049 00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,480 response. Or even when it sees that its 1050 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,120 eyes light up, its salivary gland starts going, its nervous 1051 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:57,120 system is ready to do that and it readily drinks up the blood. 1052 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:02,840 A herbivoir will not touch if there's any blood on on the 1053 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:04,800 grass or anything its senses say. 1054 00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:09,800 I can't eat this and humans, if you know my dad used to work in 1055 00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,600 a meat plant, want to become a vegetarian? 1056 00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,560 Just have a dad that works in a meat plant. 1057 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,680 I mean if. You go to the kill floor where 1058 00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,680 the kill in the animals and I. There's. 1059 00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,320 I don't think there's. Anybody that sensory wants to be 1060 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,600 around that it like our senses reject that, as opposed to say, 1061 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:36,240 our senses walking through, say, some sort of fruit orchard, an 1062 00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,480 apple orchard or cherry blossoms or something. 1063 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:40,960 There's a salivary nervous system response and a sense of 1064 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,720 well-being. So he used those examples as 1065 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:49,000 determinants that it was much more likely that we were to 1066 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,000 consume plants and foods. He also suggested, though, that 1067 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,600 our sensory environment had been so perverted that some people 1068 00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,040 are just not going to come back from and you should choose 1069 01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:04,400 whatever simple diet leads to health and not worry about it 1070 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,440 too much. So I just ran an experiment. 1071 01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,040 For a couple of weeks I thought I was going to dry up and blow 1072 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,560 away if I didn't eat. Meat every meal. 1073 01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,560 I would grow up in hunting, fishing, you know, high meat 1074 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,800 environment and have no issues with it. 1075 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,040 I don't have any ethical issues with what people do or not. 1076 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,040 I'm not at some vigilante, vegan or anything like that. 1077 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,960 I was just like, I did an experiment for two weeks. 1078 01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,480 I did experiment for another two weeks after the first ones was 1079 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,000 OK and then I did another month and at the two months how I 1080 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,080 felt, I just felt great and I said, oh, I guess I'm not going 1081 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,680 to eat meat anymore. I've always kept the door open 1082 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:41,360 on that because I don't want to follow into such a dietary 1083 01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:48,520 rigidity that I remove my capacity to integrate a diet 1084 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,880 that would be better for me in the future. 1085 01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,200 And I think we get too overly identified with a diet or a 1086 01:00:55,200 --> 01:01:00,560 religion or a spiritual philosophy that maybe counter to 1087 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,160 what are biomarkers and health markers. 1088 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,080 Now that's not to say I haven't had certain challenges as a 1089 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:10,000 plant based, but I've simply chosen those as what I call 1090 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,080 positive constraints so that I could develop technologies that 1091 01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:18,520 would better support a plant based diet in that. 1092 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,560 So I do my regular tasks and I do all that sort of stuff more 1093 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,480 and it's kind of a fun thing and you know it's been that way for 1094 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,080 20. What has it been 23 years now? 1095 01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,920 I've been on that and haven't had any issues, but if somebody 1096 01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,400 went on to a plant based that and I've seen that happen and 1097 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,720 they're having all these issues with it, I'm like, abandon it. 1098 01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,440 Like why are you trying to, you know what? 1099 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,440 Why are you going against what your body's telling you? 1100 01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,320 The key element for me is I felt good on it, but I think there's 1101 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:50,600 a lot of conjecture. I think a better way of looking 1102 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,040 at the Physiology of digestion is. 1103 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,880 What does your body tell? You like it's obvious that there 1104 01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:03,040 are people that have lived long, healthy, vibrant lives on a 1105 01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,440 plant based diet and there's obvious components that people 1106 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,040 have lived long healthy lives on a more carnivore diet and then 1107 01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,600 everything in between. Yeah, I always respect. 1108 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:16,720 That I think we need to remove them. 1109 01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:21,480 So yeah, so I can't. Ignore, I can't ignore the 1110 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:26,240 success of, you know, healthy keto or carnivore people and 1111 01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:27,760 say, you know, you shouldn't do that. 1112 01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,760 I'm like, well, try it, see if it works for you, you know? 1113 01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,160 Yeah, no, I totally. Totally respect that completely. 1114 01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,960 I feel like, you know, we just need to have conversations and 1115 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,000 be objective and subjective to how we're feeling. 1116 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,120 So many people are so far removed from being in tune with 1117 01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:43,880 their body, they don't even know what it's trying to tell them 1118 01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,360 because they're just oblivious to it. 1119 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,800 I think the more you know innately connected to your body 1120 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,720 you are, you can kind of finesse and fine tune what works and 1121 01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,520 what doesn't work. Absolutely. 1122 01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,520 So y'all's book. Was released? 1123 01:02:58,680 --> 01:02:59,560 When? When was it released? 1124 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,080 Yeah. It was released in September. 1125 01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,480 Last year, so just to talk a little bit about the book as 1126 01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:06,800 well. As I mentioned earlier, Wade and 1127 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,800 I argued for, debated and started finding common ground 1128 01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:15,680 and we put spent three years crafting this book at the help 1129 01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:20,360 of multiple PhD. On the more scientific side, we 1130 01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:21,600 have a whole chapter on each genomics. 1131 01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,480 The book's called The Ultimate Nutrition Bible. 1132 01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:28,240 We wanted to write the most complete, unbiased book on 1133 01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,240 nutrition ever. We feel we've accomplished that. 1134 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:36,080 We really, you know, spent a lot of time removing biases from our 1135 01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:39,040 own thinking. Of course, prior to writing the 1136 01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:43,440 book and even during writing the book, a lot of that was done by 1137 01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,360 looking at the science. There's over 750 scientific 1138 01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:50,080 preferences and yeah, it's a it's a Bible, you know, it's 1139 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:55,560 over 460 pages of content. We also filmed Horse, so we 1140 01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,720 actually filmed the content a little bit more simplified, but 1141 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:02,160 pretty much all the content from the book and the video formats 1142 01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,000 are for anybody who prefers watching it. 1143 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,200 You can and yeah, we you can go to 1144 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:14,120 ultimatenutritionsystem.com/keto Savage and it's really a book 1145 01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,440 for everybody. You know if you're a nutrition 1146 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,880 nerd, you're going to love it. The book is broken down to kind 1147 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,800 of a few key sections whether your goals, fat loss, muscle 1148 01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,960 building, athletic performance, cognitive performance, we're 1149 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:31,760 living a long healthy life. We've got you covered. 1150 01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:36,400 We cover every, you know, popular diet type from Ketogenic 1151 01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,080 which is over 30 pages of content. 1152 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,480 It's a lot of stuff we didn't get into that I think people 1153 01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:45,240 would benefit from plant based Paleo if it fits your macros and 1154 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,240 a few others. And then we cover kind of all 1155 01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,840 the universal nutritional strategies that people can use 1156 01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,440 no matter what diet you're on to make it work better. 1157 01:04:55,960 --> 01:05:00,000 And everything is covered by our 365 day money back guarantee and 1158 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,840 URL is Ultimate nutritionsystem.com/keto Savage. 1159 01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,240 And also if you go to buyoptimizers.com and use Keto 1160 01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:12,440 Savage you'll save 10% off. And I would strongly advocate or 1161 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:16,360 advise. Try mass signs, try K Pex, try 1162 01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,440 magnesium breakthrough. Those three products will will 1163 01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,640 truly take your health and your performance to another level. 1164 01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:29,800 Not passed on to Wade. Yeah, you know. 1165 01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,280 I think the most important. Thing for people to understand 1166 01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:37,040 is we all have biases. Matt and I were lucky that we 1167 01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:42,720 had different dietary backgrounds and philosophies and 1168 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:47,960 both a little bit stubborn. So we're OK if we can go against 1169 01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,960 the grain and argue those points and go research those points and 1170 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,000 and and build compelling arguments about it. 1171 01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:57,200 But fortunately what happened out of that is it allowed us to 1172 01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,400 help us identify the biases of a lot of other experts in the 1173 01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,080 world. Because once we understood our 1174 01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,680 own, we could see that proliferating all dietary 1175 01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:07,080 strategies. And that's why we created the 1176 01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:08,560 book. We created the book to 1177 01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:12,240 understand that, you know, the diet that works for you today 1178 01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,920 may not be the diet that works for you tomorrow. 1179 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,240 And there's a lot of evidence about that. 1180 01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:20,320 The other thing is, is there's a tremendous amount of 1181 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,080 breakthroughs in the dietary industry that are happening 1182 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,880 right now and they're not well fleshed out about how you can 1183 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,040 make integrations as you get older or as you your goals and 1184 01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:32,360 routine strength. That's why I went and ran a 1185 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,040 marathon after the bodybuilding show. 1186 01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,960 I said, Oh well, I realize the demands of that's completely 1187 01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,280 different than anything I did. And I I wanted to do a real 1188 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,880 world experiment. And I learned some things that 1189 01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:44,080 were shocking. Yeah, I learned some shocking 1190 01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,160 revelations. And our idea is to expose 1191 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,320 yourself, to create a world where we're a little bit more 1192 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:55,640 open and flexible as opposed to proving why I'm right or someone 1193 01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,360 else is wrong. It's better to find what are the 1194 01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,840 common elements. And the one thing I would say 1195 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,520 that's true across all dietary philosophies is about 80% of the 1196 01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,080 fundamentals. Forget the the the macro side of 1197 01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,440 the equation, but the fundamentals of. 1198 01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,040 The drivers for long? Term success are the same, 1199 01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:18,920 they're the same. And the variances I think, are 1200 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:23,280 applied to genes, psychological, emotional and spiritual 1201 01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,480 preferences. Yeah, I totally agree. 1202 01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:26,680 I think it's. Awesome that you all broke all 1203 01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,200 that down in a book that's a resource for people and you 1204 01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,080 tackle all different ends of the spectrum to show that common 1205 01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,640 ground, common denominators so people can find success with it. 1206 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,480 So I will definitely link out to the book for sure. 1207 01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:43,040 And and how long has Bio Optimizers, Bio optimizers, the 1208 01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,160 company been in existence? Well. 1209 01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,240 We started the. Company the origination of this 1210 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:56,800 in 2004. The idea was born in 2003 when I 1211 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,280 got back from the Mr. University start working our book. 1212 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,440 We came out in 2004. I think our first product was 1213 01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,880 what 2005 Matt, correct? Yeah, and then? 1214 01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:09,720 Later on is, you know, I was a hardcore bodybuilder and we were 1215 01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,400 having fun yelling into the mic and you know, exposing a lot of 1216 01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,560 the fraud and lies inside that. And we had a cult like filing 1217 01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:18,560 for a lot of while. But as we got older and this is 1218 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,720 what happens to just about everyone, we realized that we 1219 01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,800 branched into a more health and longevity focus. 1220 01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,479 You know, we had kind of mastered aesthetics. 1221 01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,960 We kind of did the bodybuilding world learned our lessons and, 1222 01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:34,800 you know, moved beyond that. And that's when we decided, 1223 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,520 well, we wanted to help millions of people around the world live 1224 01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:43,160 their best life to go from sick, you know, to superhuman or 1225 01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:45,359 whatever, you know, better health or optimize health or 1226 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:48,600 superhuman health. And we had a partner by the name 1227 01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,880 of Dame Ruel. He helped us rebrand the 1228 01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:55,080 companies by optimizer. I think that was around 2017, I 1229 01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:57,960 think, Matt, wasn't it not. Yeah, we started well. 1230 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:03,439 Reworking on the brand 2014 and yeah, around that time, yeah. 1231 01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:10,200 And so time goes by really fast and and since that time we've 1232 01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:12,920 you know started with the digestive health suite because 1233 01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,359 and the variances on that we have enzymes for plant based 1234 01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:18,520 people, enzymes for keto people, enzymes for the general men, 1235 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,920 coral, those people who have gluten intolerances, we have a 1236 01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:25,359 ray of probiotics. So we have probably the most 1237 01:09:25,359 --> 01:09:28,439 robust digestive health spectrum. 1238 01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,160 We've got that covered. But then we moved into things 1239 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:34,279 like you know nervous system regulation sleep, you know 1240 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,880 mineral deficiencies like magnesium as well as you know a 1241 01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,200 a variety of other products that we're continuing to develop that 1242 01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,240 we see holes in the market and we see that there that. 1243 01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:48,840 What's available? Out there in the world is subpar 1244 01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:53,200 and we do that through our, you know, almost psychotic 1245 01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:58,880 investment in, you know, R&D. So we do have that Matt. 1246 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,680 Matt mentioned the labs. We also have a another, you 1247 01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,600 know, prototype factory where we're cranking out all kinds of 1248 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,160 weird things. Not everything makes it to 1249 01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,440 market and we have a few things that are really awesome, but 1250 01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:13,880 there's no market for it. But that's OK. 1251 01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,760 But we just keep running these experiments because, you know, 1252 01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:21,520 by Optimizer's mission is to create an alternative health 1253 01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:23,440 paradigm to what's available to people. 1254 01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:25,880 Because what's available to people is making them sicker. 1255 01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:30,280 It's making them addicted to pharmaceuticals and medications 1256 01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,120 and surgeries and lobbyists group. 1257 01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:37,000 And so we're taking the Buckminister Fuller path and 1258 01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,960 we're creating a model that's so far superior to anything else. 1259 01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,040 Eventually it'll get acclamation and that's what we're going to 1260 01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:44,240 spend the rest of our lives doing. 1261 01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:45,880 I love it. Well, I can totally get. 1262 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,080 Behind that messaging goal for sure, I feel like there's so 1263 01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,880 many different supplement companies popping up now and 1264 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:53,320 y'all been in the game for quite some time. 1265 01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,120 So you've you've seen the ebbs and flows. 1266 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:56,880 Like what's Y'all's biggest frustration within the 1267 01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:58,320 supplement industry as a whole right now? 1268 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,640 People that don't care enough. Yeah, you know, people that 1269 01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:07,480 don't care enough to innovate or spend time working on a product. 1270 01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,760 There's so many me too products, There's a lot of white label 1271 01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,320 products. And you know, to create a great 1272 01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:17,160 product, it takes time, I'd say on average takes us about two 1273 01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,520 years, sometimes more, sometimes a little less. 1274 01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:24,520 To go from an idea to doing the R&D in the lab to prototyping 1275 01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:28,240 it, to getting feedback from our little VIP group and then 1276 01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:31,640 changing it and optimizing it and then we don't stop, you 1277 01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,720 know, even once the product's released, we keep working on it. 1278 01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:38,360 And that's because we care, you know, we care about every part 1279 01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,040 of the customer experience from the moment they order the 1280 01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:43,960 products. We we provide a ton of free 1281 01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,840 education. We have a 365 day money back 1282 01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,400 guarantee. We want every product that we do 1283 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,200 to be best in class. And then Waze has done a world 1284 01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,120 class job leading the customer support team. 1285 01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,560 So that if there is something that's that's not up to par we 1286 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,520 get a customer support ticket. We answer within 20 to 30 1287 01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:06,600 minutes and we get a 99% satisfaction rating from those 1288 01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,120 support tickets. So yeah, we just care a lot just 1289 01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,920 in our in our nature. And you know that's definitely 1290 01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:16,560 my biggest peeve in the in the space is that there's so many 1291 01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:21,440 just basic formulas and people could just do more if they cared 1292 01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:23,240 more. Yeah, no, I totally. 1293 01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,320 Totally agree. You gotta be in it for the right 1294 01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:29,080 reasons and that that shows through pretty quick if you're 1295 01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,320 not in it for the right reasons. So I commend y'all for for being 1296 01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:33,800 in it and fighting the good fight that you are. 1297 01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:36,920 Thank you. Thank you. 1298 01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:38,680 Well, gentlemen, it's been an absolute. 1299 01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:39,880 Pleasure. I could probably sit here and 1300 01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,040 talk with you for another two hours and just learn more as we 1301 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,320 go, but we'll have to do a follow up around 2 podcast 1302 01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,040 'cause this was super interesting for sure. 1303 01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,680 It was a great. Conversation and I I knew you 1304 01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,200 were our guy when I saw your name. 1305 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,680 Keto Savage. I'm a big fan of of savagery in 1306 01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,240 the right places. So it was a great episode, yeah. 1307 01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:01,640 I knew that. Too and I saw that paper thin 1308 01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:05,080 skin on your on your pictures as of like OK this is the guy that 1309 01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:07,440 knows what he's talking about I can't wait to get in a 1310 01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:11,680 conversation with him so thank you for thank you for having us 1311 01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,640 it's been it's been great and hopefully we'll get to do 1312 01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:16,240 another round because I love sharing these insights. 1313 01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:20,880 I think, you know, bodybuilders like yourself that have put in 1314 01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,800 the hard hours, and it's hard hours, 'cause you're fighting 1315 01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:27,000 all those, you know, those biological tendencies, 1316 01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,760 evolutionary survival tendencies, to get to that. 1317 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:34,080 And the benefit of that is the level of awareness that you have 1318 01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:37,160 about your body and the variances that you know, food 1319 01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,480 and diet and training and all these different things impact 1320 01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:42,040 it. So, you know, keep the message 1321 01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,400 going. It's it's great that you're 1322 01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:49,400 doing this and it's it's I just love you know participating with 1323 01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:51,480 people such as yourself doing that because it's the it's the 1324 01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:54,080 real world stuff that you're not going to find in an in a 1325 01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:57,520 double-blind study in a medical lab in some pharmaceutical. 1326 01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,960 This is the stuff that everybody can benefit from and and that's 1327 01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:05,240 it's solid info. Yeah well I'm I'm definitely. 1328 01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:07,760 Boots on the ground kind of guy and and y'all are as well 1329 01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,600 obviously. Clearly, I think we need more of 1330 01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:12,320 that for sure. And I I appreciate the fact that 1331 01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,840 you're coming at it from different angles, different 1332 01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,720 dietary protocols, and you find out what's working for you and 1333 01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,080 you're just relaying that message to the masses. 1334 01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,240 That's what we need more of. So I truly appreciate the time, 1335 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,120 fellas, and let's definitely do around 2. 1336 01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,280 And until then, if there's everything I can do for you all, 1337 01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:29,640 just let me know. Thank you. 1338 01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:31,200 Yeah, take care.