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What's going on is James Roberts
like sceeto Savage.com and today

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I have special guest, dr. 
Ted name it on the line. 

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I was incredibly excited to 
record this conversation because

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I feel like, you know, I have a 
very high fat stance on the 

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ketogenic diet, he definitely is
an advocate for high-protein. 

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There's been so many people on 
the interwebs that have like 

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pitted us against one another. 
Basically, and I read his book, 

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I've listened to his his work 
and I felt that there was a lot 

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of nuance and context that 
really needed to be fleshed out.

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Doubt and unsurprisingly. 
I felt like there's a lot of 

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things that we do agree upon and
there are definitely some 

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surprising things that I felt 
like we also did not agree on so

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I feel like this was a great 
conversation. 

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We got to an understanding as to
where we kind of recommend 

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things. 
We both have a reason for why we

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recommend the things that we do,
I really appreciate his, you 

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know, his effort to just 
showcase where he's coming from 

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the type of people, he's really 
trying to Improve and make 

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healthy. 
I feel like it's got a really 

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well formulated approach to 
doing just that and like with 

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most things in life there's 
there's very much a sense of Bio

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individuality there and we kind 
of dive into the nuances of that

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and why one would need to 
manipulate their micronutrient 

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and macronutrient ratios based 
off of where they're at in life 

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and where they're wanting to go.
So without further Ado, really, 

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really listen tune into this 
conversation. 

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Learn something. 
I feel like you'll find it 

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incredibly fascinating. 
I feel like you You'll 

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definitely learn something I 
certainly did and I said I 

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really appreciate dr. 
Chad name and for taking the 

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time to do this because there's 
been a lot of controversy over 

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the whole high protein versus 
high fat debate within the keto 

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sphere. 
So, this was a very much needed 

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conversation in my opinion. 
So like I said, sit back, relax,

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learn something. 
Enjoy the podcast, the 

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conversation with dr. 
Ted Naman. 

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Dr. Ted naming were laughs. 
How are you sir? 

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I'm doing great. 
How are you sir? 

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I'm doing wonderfully. 
Well, so I'm really excited to 

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talk to you. 
I've heard you speak on the 

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low-carb, Cruz. 
I've heard you speak at multiple

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different conferences and I feel
like this would be coming 

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interesting conversation, 
because I've been kind of pitted

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by the the whole keto low carb 
Community as the high fat guy 

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and you are definitely the high 
protein guy. 

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So, I This will kind of 
organically turn to a pretty 

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interesting discussion. 
But before we dive into the 

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specifics, I love this. 
Just kind of get some more 

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background on you kind of what 
got you in the space. 

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What brought you into the 
profession that you're in? 

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Just kind of give you some 
backstory. 

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All right. 
Okay cool. 

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Well I'm a family practice 
doctor here in Seattle. 

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I've been out of residency for 
about 20 years so I just kind of

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down in the trenches doing 
primary care and I pretty much 

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been interested in diet. 
It and diet and exercise, for 

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health, my whole career. 
I was raised vegetarian a 

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Seventh-Day. 
Adventist vegetarian went to an 

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Adventist vegetarian, medical 
school and Loma Linda, this sort

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of famous Blue Zone vegetarian 
Mecca. 

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And, you know, started out with 
sort of this high-carb low-fat 

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vegetarian approach. 
And then in in my residency I 

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was Two low carb by one of my 
patients who just had some 

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really amazing transformation 
with weight loss and diabetes 

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Improvement and I've been 
researching that ever since and 

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just trying to learn as much as 
I can about metabolism and diet 

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and exercise and exactly how 
everything works. 

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You know, so I've been I've been
practicing some sort of low carb

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diet for about 20 years now with
myself. 

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And with my patients that is a 
pretty Stark contrast from the 

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Adventists vegetarian to pretty 
much a low carb, high protein 

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style of eating. 
Yeah, it was it was a huge, huge

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change. 
You know, for me and honestly I 

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had a bunch of Health 
improvements. 

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Personally, as a result was 
there any specific Health 

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declines that you were starting 
to see by being vegetarian after

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so long. 
I had, you know, I had booked 

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just the worst eggs and lat ever
and that is completely On, I 

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haven't had it since then. 
So I think in terms of, in terms

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of health problems, eczema was 
definitely number one. 

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I also had a quite a bit of 
almost like an OCD type anxiety 

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thing going on as a vegetarian, 
which just completely melted 

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away since then. 
And so, for me, it was, you 

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know, low muscle, I was skinny 
fat, poor body composition. 

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I would have hypoglycemia all 
the time, like I would eat my, 

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you know, cereal and juice and, 
you know, all this low-fat stuff

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for breakfast. 
And I would be just hypoglycemic

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three hours later and then it 
was. 

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So, I would say, yeah, low 
muscle, skinny fat, hypoglycemia

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eggs, IMA this sort of OCD 
anxiety thing, all of, which 

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just massively improved with 
really just plain old 

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carbohydrate Striction, you 
know, and I mean, just eating 

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less carbs and prioritizing 
protein kind of did all improved

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all of that. 
For me, it's really interesting 

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about the OCD because I used to 
suffer from just massive OCD 

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like Howard Hughes level stuff 
that just debilitating me. 

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Yeah, and I was never 
vegetarian, but I was following 

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a much higher carb Approach at 
that point in my life. 

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So I wonder if just simply 
minimizing the carbs as a whole 

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has some kind of neurological 
effect on that. 

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I don't know. 
I mean, my I'm not sure if it's 

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the carb issue or if I had some 
serious nutritional 

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deficiencies, but I remember at 
one point as a, as a kid when I 

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was a vegetarian, I mean I would
I was literally flipping light 

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switches on and off like 50 
times or something, just insane 

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just completely clinically OCD 
and at the time I didn't even 

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know it OCD was and then all of 
that just went away, but Pretty,

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pretty glad he's gone. 
Did you like this is kind of off

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on a tangent knows about you. 
So, I'm curious now Keen to find

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out more, but I did the same 
thing, and I feel like a lot of 

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people with OCD, they do that. 
At least for me, it was, it was 

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that if I didn't do that 
something bad would happen to my

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loved ones, just like this weird
psychological shift. 

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I don't know why, that's the way
I am like thought of things. 

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But did you have some kind of 
similar take on it yourself? 

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Oh, yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah, and actually, everyone 

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with OCD is doing these 
behaviors in an attempt to 

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alleviate anxiety somehow, 
except it doesn't work. 

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It doesn't make, you less, ain't
well, it makes you less anxious 

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for a couple minutes and then 
you get even more anxious later.

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So it's his failed attempt to 
alleviate anxiety. 

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Somehow through some behavior 
and it just doesn't work and 

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it's terrible. 
It really is. 

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It's totally debilitating. 
Once you get that fixed, it's 

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like you have your life back and
everybody wants to have their 

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life. 
So I'm glad that you no longer 

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suffer from that. 
Oh, same to you. 

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And that's that's really 
interesting and I feel the same 

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way for you. 
So I want to kind of dive into 

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different nutritional protocols 
here because first of all being 

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talked about you know your book 
the PE that I've read that book,

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William shufelt gave me a copy 
and I love it. 

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I think there's a lot of really 
good material in there. 

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I agree. 
With a lot of it. 

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So if you kind of want to just 
give a little overview as to 

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what your take on nutrition, is 
the PE diet as a whole and just 

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kind of Flesh that out from a 
high level. 

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And then I kind of want to dive 
into some of the nuances if 

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you're around it then oh yeah. 
Sure, absolutely okay. 

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So really, really big picture. 
The whole point of the book is 

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that you're really eating to get
two things. 

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One is nutrients, which in this 
case would be protein in 

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minerals and the other is to get
energy. 

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Asian vines of cartoon fats. 
So if you really zoom out and 

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look at what eating is all 
nutrients, like protein, and 

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minerals come from soil plants, 
absorb nitrogen, and mineral 

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form from the soil and a bunch 
of other minerals that you need.

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And then plant also take solar 
energy and store it chemically 

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as the carbohydrate. 
I'm sorry as fat or carbohydrate

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high energy. 
Carbon Carbon and carbon 

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hydrogen bonds. 
So you're what you're eating to 

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get is protein and minerals or 
energy. 

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And in this book we kind of 
divide these two out, right? 

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So the goal in the book is to 
hit your protein and mineral 

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nutrient Target first, so that 
you don't have to eat as much 

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energy because in this country, 
we've stripped energy out of 

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food, in the form of refined, 
carbs, and refined fats, all 

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your sugar, flour and oil. 
And so, you're getting all of 

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this energy that's separated 
from the satiety which comes 

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from protein and minerals. 
So, everyone's eating this low 

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satiety, high-energy food, like 
garbage and all your sugar flour

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oil. 
And the way you fight back is by

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intentionally targeting protein 
and minerals first and foremost,

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and eating those and then only 
eating energy in the Out of 

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energy needs sort of on the back
end, it's like Target protein 

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minerals and nutrients first and
energy. 

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Second instead of eating all 
this high energy, low protein 

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processed food stuff that 
basically by the time you eat 

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enough, you know, French fries 
to get enough protein. 

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To not be hungry, you have to 
massively, overeat carbohydrate 

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and fat energy, all of which 
you're going to stores fat. 

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Basically got you. 
Yeah, totally agree in the 

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context of you like most out of 
the Obesity epidemic that's 

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happening right now is a result 
of people just eating, you know,

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and there's a lot of debate as 
to what's causing that epidemic 

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but it's pretty apparent that 
the general population is 

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getting far too much heavily 
processed foods high in energy. 

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They don't really expend and 
they're probably deficient in 

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quality protein sources. 
So kind of tackling this from 

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like a PE diet standpoint in 
prioritizing the protein and 

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nutrients seems like a pretty 
reasonable fix to that issue. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah absolutely. 

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And then you know if you if you 
look at hunter-gatherers they're

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eating like 33 percent protein 
by calories and in America were 

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eating you know maybe 12 and a 
half percent protein by calories

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and so just off the bat trying 
to get your protein percent up 

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is pretty much going to be an 
instant win for almost 

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everybody. 
Do you think like what is there 

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as far as you know, your general
clientele base? 

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Like who are you typically 
working with and seeing benefit 

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from this? 
So you know my whole career I've

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really been focused on insulin 
resistance and and how it's 

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related to all the chronic 
degenerative diseases in our 

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society. 
Like you know, type 2 diabetes 

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and obesity and cardiovascular 
disease and Alzheimer's, 

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dementia and cancer. 
And if you I've been researching

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the fact that insulin resistance
increases your risk for every 

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single chronic degenerative 
disease, you could possibly name

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mmmmm and as a primary care 
doctor, The vast majority of 

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what I'm doing is seeing 
patients with these. 

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Chronic degenerative diseases. 
All of which seem to be 

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Downstream of insulin 
resistance, which is really Just

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Energy. 
Toxicity, basically, overeating 

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energy when you're trying to 
achieve nutritional satiety. 

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So I would say that my average 
patient has some sort of 

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metabolic syndrome, you know? 
I mean they have increased waist

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circumference abdominal fat, 
high blood Sure. 

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High triglycerides, low HDL, 
maybe pre-diabetes, like 52 

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percent of adult Americans. 
And then all these, you know, 

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quote-unquote lifestyle, 
diseases, like acid reflux, and 

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sleep apnea, and, you know, 
these sorts of insulin 

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resistant, kind of problems that
you're so classic. 

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And so that's my average. 
My average client is, they're 

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trying to eat quote-unquote 
healthy because everything they 

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buy is whole grain. 
Low-fat or heart-healthy or has 

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00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,600
you know or is fortified or 
something? 

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00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,300
Blah blah blah. 
They're not eating. 

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They're not just eating bonbons 
and Oreos. 

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You know they're trying to eat 
healthy but their diet is 

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screwing them over bad. 
And every year they're just 

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gaining one or two pounds and 
now they're 50 pounds overweight

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and they have all these chronic 
diseases, you know. 

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I mean I would say that's my 
prototypical person. 

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Gotcha, gotcha. 
So, With vent as the context 

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kind of seeing, you know, the 
popularity of Quito pick up and 

226
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,900
seeing probably a pretty big 
interest in vent over the past, 

227
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,400
you know, several years, 
probably coming from your 

228
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,900
clientele base as well. 
Like what are some of the big, 

229
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,400
you know, loopholes or pitfalls 
or just frustrations you're 

230
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,900
seeing in this ketogenic 
movements? 

231
00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:52,300
I mean I feel like we can both 
agree on the low-carb aspect 

232
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:56,600
being beneficial but I feel like
you are I would don't put words 

233
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,200
in my mouth but I have to assume
that you get frustrated seeing 

234
00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:03,300
people just Chugging butter, if 
you're very much a pro high 

235
00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,800
protein and very minimal excess 
energy type of stance on it. 

236
00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:14,900
Yeah, I mean okay unfortunately 
I do see a fair amount of kind 

237
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of Quito failures, you know what
I mean? 

238
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:22,600
I have these patients come in 
and they shaved their carbs all 

239
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,300
the way to zero. 
Like they might not even eat a 

240
00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:30,100
salad because of the trays carbs
in lettuce or a tomato or 

241
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:31,800
something. 
So they've shaved their carbs 

242
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,200
all the way to zero. 
They feel like if I could just 

243
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,900
go from 10 Trace carbs in my 
salad, Add to five trays carbs, 

244
00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:42,700
you know, by not eating solid, 
then I'm going to be even more 

245
00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:46,400
successful and they're just 
starving all the time. 

246
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:52,700
So they're just constantly 
snacking on cheese and nuts, and

247
00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:56,200
they're eating just tons of dark
chocolate and macadamia nuts. 

248
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,300
And, you know, heavy cream and 
their coffee. 

249
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:03,500
And they're just eating 
basically hundreds of grams of 

250
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:07,500
fat every day in this attempt to
get satiety. 

251
00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:13,900
And really the big the whole 
secret to all this dye stuff is 

252
00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:18,100
the amount of satiety. 
You get / /, non-protein energy 

253
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,800
calorie and the satiety from 
fat. 

254
00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:27,000
It's well, first of all, it's 
not immediate, you know what I 

255
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,600
mean? 
Like if you eat carbohydrates, 

256
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,900
it's hitting your bloodstream, 
couple minutes later and you get

257
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:37,000
this big burst of satiety, 
actually quite a lot initially 

258
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,300
and then a few hours Hours 
later, you actually have - 

259
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:43,500
Society where your hunger and if
you've never eaten at all, 

260
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,800
that's the big problem with 
carbs is Downstream hunger. 

261
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:51,400
The, the problem with that is 
that you could eat a whole bunch

262
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,800
of it right away and the FED 
doesn't really hit your system 

263
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,200
for a while. 
So there's sort of this delay 

264
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,200
gratification to the society 
there. 

265
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:05,500
And so I see people overeating 
spot if the proteins to low and 

266
00:16:05,500 --> 00:16:08,800
then they basically might not I 
lose any weight. 

267
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,400
I've actually watched people 
gain weight on a strict, 

268
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,200
ketogenic diet. 
With, you know, tracking Ketone 

269
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,700
levels, tracking, macros eating,
almost no carbs at all. 

270
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:20,900
I've watched people get fatter, 
I watch, you will give more 

271
00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:26,600
diabetic and I just, I know that
you what was that? 

272
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,200
Last thing said, I just lost it 
cut out there. 

273
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:33,200
Oh sorry. 
I said that this is one of the 

274
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,900
things that I see it's just 
basically people over eating 

275
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:39,900
fat, in an attempt to get 
satiety and sometimes it doesn't

276
00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:44,300
work if the diet's not 
formulated right for them, I 

277
00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:47,400
totally agree. 
There are definitely some really

278
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:50,400
poorly formulated ketogenic 
diets out there, and it's hard 

279
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,600
to see people that have a lot of
weight to lose just shoveling 

280
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,300
down, you know, sticks of butter
or MCT oil, or, you know, way 

281
00:16:57,300 --> 00:16:58,900
too much heavy cream in their 
coffee. 

282
00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:03,100
So I totally get the frustration
there especially when people are

283
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:07,800
fearful of protein from like a 
gluconeogenesis aspect and they 

284
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,900
shun too much protein and 
they're just way under consuming

285
00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:12,200
then. 
So they're they're not really 

286
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,800
having the amino acids in the 
building blocks necessary to put

287
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,300
on any lean tissue which is 
going to further down regulate 

288
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,000
their metabolism and kind of put
them off worst in a worse 

289
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,200
position than they were when 
they started, right? 

290
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,200
Yeah. 
No, absolutely. 

291
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,500
You got it. 
Exactly. 

292
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,100
So with regard to satiety I kind
of want to dive into that 

293
00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:32,700
because I feel like I've done a 
lot of self-experimentation. 

294
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:34,700
So anything that I bring to the 
table is going to be pretty much

295
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:37,300
anecdotal and then what I've 
been able to see in my clients 

296
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,200
but with regard to satiety, 
there are several people that 

297
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,900
claim to see, you know, 
significantly increase satiety 

298
00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:49,000
with a higher fat approach to 
Quito. 

299
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,000
So, what is your take on on 
that? 

300
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,500
Is that just like the exception 
to the rule? 

301
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:57,100
Or is that more common than not 
know? 

302
00:17:57,100 --> 00:18:00,000
I mean, I think that it's highly
Visualized. 

303
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:07,200
And I think that the biggest 
secret is finding, what gives 

304
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,700
you, the very highest satiety 
for the very lowest ingestion of

305
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:15,400
energy. 
And I have patients who I am 

306
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,900
100% convinced that for them, 
that actually occurs in a very 

307
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:24,300
high carb diet. 
That's actually low in protein 

308
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:32,100
and fat so it's extremely I have
patients who, who have more 

309
00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:36,700
satiety eating, you know, way 
higher fat quantities than I 

310
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:39,200
eat. 
I have patients, who have higher

311
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,500
satiety, eating super high-carb,
low-protein diet. 

312
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:50,300
And so, I fully acknowledge that
there's a ton of room for 

313
00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:56,400
individuality and I honestly 
believe that if we knew enough 

314
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,700
about mitochondrial haplogroups,
Plug Loop groups and where your 

315
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,000
ancestry came from and how your 
your electron transport chain is

316
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,600
wired. 
If we, if we knew more about how

317
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,300
all this works, we could 
actually predict better which 

318
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:18,200
type of macro spread would be 
people the highest Authority for

319
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,300
the very fewest calories. 
And that would be the Daya Bay 

320
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:23,800
would be the most successful on.
But unfortunately, we don't know

321
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,600
any of that crap. 
So everyone has to just 

322
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,800
experiment on themselves and 
find out just kind of like you 

323
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,600
did. 
Like I did and I fully respect 

324
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,700
the fact that some people do get
the highest Authority with this.

325
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:40,600
You know, paleo medicine achieve
grams of fat to 1 gram protein 

326
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,200
thing. 
I believe people who tell me 

327
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,900
that that's their highest 
Authority, but I also believe 

328
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:50,300
people who tell me that they get
to very high society per calorie

329
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,900
from a high carb, low fat, maybe
even low protein vegan diet. 

330
00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:59,000
So I'm not going to argue with 
anybody success at all. 

331
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:04,800
All I do think that if you just 
looked at the population on 

332
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:08,500
average, if you just look across
the spectrum of humans in 

333
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:12,900
general, you're going to get 
more success as the protein 

334
00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:16,600
percentage goes higher. 
And that's why I really like to 

335
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,700
focus on, you know, protein 
percentage because I know that's

336
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:24,300
going to make everybody probably
more successful and then they 

337
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:27,800
might have to figure out on the 
back end where their carbs and 

338
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,100
fats are going to lie. 
And in the research I've done on

339
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,600
you and your cute, you tend to 
kind of gravitate towards the 

340
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,100
one-to-one personally, like 
having one gram of protein, per 

341
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:40,300
1 gram of energy. 
I believe is what it? 

342
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:43,900
What you recommend, right? 
Right as just sort of a starting

343
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:46,400
point, is, sort of a 
maintenance, starting point on a

344
00:20:46,408 --> 00:20:47,800
low-carb diet. 
Yeah. 

345
00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:52,800
And in the context of, you know,
how much protein per individual 

346
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,900
having like a 1 gram per per 
pound of desired or lean tissue.

347
00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:59,000
I guess, is a pretty good 
starting. 

348
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:02,300
Point. 
That's that's that's my thought.

349
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,200
And to be honest, part of that I
chose because it's just really 

350
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,100
easy, you know, you eat a gram 
per pound of desired body 

351
00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:11,700
weight. 
That's pretty easy to remember 

352
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:15,000
and to calculate but I do think 
that's a reasonable starting 

353
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,500
point for most people. 
I'm hoping everybody's doing 

354
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:23,900
some sort of resistance exercise
and then I do think that that's 

355
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:29,000
probably a good protein Target. 
Have you noticed? 

356
00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:33,000
To any adverse effects to going 
much higher on the protein. 

357
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,400
I mean, coming from a 
bodybuilding background, myself,

358
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,600
like, there's people out there 
that are doing, you know, three,

359
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,200
two, one Grandmaster to each 
lean pound. 

360
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,000
So, is there any downside to 
over consuming protein that 

361
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,400
you've been aware of? 
I've never seen any object of 

362
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,400
downside like, you know, an 
actual medical problem or a lab 

363
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,600
problem. 
I do not ever see any object 

364
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,700
event signs. 
That is bad. 

365
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:04,100
I I do definitely see 
subjectively people saying they 

366
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:06,200
don't feel good. 
Like you know, if you try to 

367
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,700
eat, you know, 600 grams of 
protein and say 80 percent of 

368
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:12,900
your calories, you're just going
to feel weird. 

369
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:15,700
It's not going to be, it's not 
going to be great. 

370
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:21,000
Subjectively like the way you 
feel and I hear people say that 

371
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,100
who are just really going north 
of 50 percent of calories from 

372
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:28,600
protein. 
So, but in terms of like an 

373
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,300
actual Medical problem or 
something that I could point to 

374
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:33,800
objectively. 
I don't really see that. 

375
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:40,100
No do you see I guess from the 
the option to Spectrum is there 

376
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:43,100
like a floor that you that you 
see, are typically recommend 

377
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:47,800
people not go below as far as 
gram per pound of lean tissue. 

378
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,400
Yeah, there definitely is. 
I mean, the interesting thing 

379
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,400
about protein is that as you go 
to Higher and Higher and Higher 

380
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,900
protein percentages, You just 
get thinner and thinner and 

381
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:03,300
thinner. 
Less fat means you can do this 

382
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:05,400
with humans. 
You can do this with animals. 

383
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:09,100
If you crank protein up to you 
know fifty percent of calories 

384
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:13,000
in any omnivore mammal it's just
going to get it really really 

385
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:19,900
lean and on the flip side, if 
you get your protein really low,

386
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:24,500
if you're down at like five 
percent protein, you also get 

387
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:31,000
really really lean but you also 
Very low lean mass. 

388
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,000
So this is how the potato hack 
works. 

389
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,400
This is how the 30 Bananas a 
Day. 

390
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,100
Fruitarian approach Works your 
your body can tell when your 

391
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:46,000
protein percentage ultra-low in 
your diet and it just kind of 

392
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,800
gives up on eating you're like, 
well, okay, why bother? 

393
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:52,800
So people get really, really 
light if you're trying to just 

394
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,100
weigh the least you really want 
to be on an ultra low protein 

395
00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:00,900
diet, but the problem with that 
is you have really low lean mass

396
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:03,700
and that includes muscle and 
bone and the weight of all your 

397
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:06,300
organs, including your heart and
your brain. 

398
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,000
And I don't think that's 
necessarily optimal for health 

399
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:14,400
or strength, or, you know, 
looking good naked or any of 

400
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,100
these things, which are, 
honestly, I think, fairly 

401
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:21,200
important. 
So, so there's definitely a for 

402
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,900
that. 
I would tell people not to go 

403
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:25,000
below. 
I mean, you really don't, you 

404
00:24:25,008 --> 00:24:27,400
know, the u.s. 
RDA for adults is, you know, 

405
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,200
somewhere around 50. 
Something G and of course, I 

406
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,500
would never tell anyone to go 
below that. 

407
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:37,500
I personally think that there's 
no adult human who should be 

408
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:40,200
trying to eat less than 100 
grams a day. 

409
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:47,200
And then the sad thing is the 
average American is the average 

410
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,200
American males eating 98 grams 
of protein a day, which I think 

411
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,400
is atrocious Lilo. 
Yeah, I'm not a fan of, you 

412
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,000
know, chronically eating low 
protein. 

413
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000
I will say that During a contest
prep. 

414
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,600
Like, for me as an example, 
there is a period of time there 

415
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,100
towards the end where my protein
goes very like the last three to

416
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,200
four weeks leading up to a show 
where I pretty much titrate 

417
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,800
protein down like my last 
competition, I was down to 65 

418
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,600
grams of protein a day, which is
very very low especially for a 

419
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,900
competitive bodybuilder. 
However, that is in the context 

420
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:24,600
of, you know, just the few weeks
leading up to a competition that

421
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,900
is not optimal from a 
performance standpoint. 

422
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:31,300
My, my take on that Is that 
because I'm following a 

423
00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:34,500
ketogenic approach. 
My fat ratio is very high, I was

424
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:37,800
in more of an anti catabolic 
state for that finite period of 

425
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,300
time. 
I would never suggest anybody be

426
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,500
that low in total protein for 
months on end. 

427
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:44,900
Yeah, right? 
Yeah. 

428
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,100
No, that makes sense. 
That's totally understandable. 

429
00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:50,300
What about calories in general? 
I feel like that is a 

430
00:25:50,308 --> 00:25:53,300
discussion. 
That's getting a lot of interest

431
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:55,700
within the keto circles, but 
just mean, that that's the topic

432
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:57,600
of discussion amongst all dining
circles. 

433
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,000
I feel like in the key toes, 
Space people are tending to, you

434
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,400
know, turn the other way when it
comes to calories and I feel 

435
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,600
like you and I could probably 
agree on the fact that calories 

436
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,100
do matter and they tore a very 
important variable to take into 

437
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:11,500
consideration. 
Okay. 

438
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:17,200
I definitely think that 
non-protein calories or energy 

439
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,300
calories is a huge, big deal, 
and absolutely, you have to pay 

440
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:25,700
attention to non-protein or 
energy calories. 

441
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:33,700
So I think that That completely 
counts, but we're calories 

442
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:37,100
breakdown for me is protein, so 
I could take anyone who's 

443
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:40,800
overweight and leave them in the
exact same calories. 

444
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,200
They're eating now but make 
that, you know, 80 90 100 

445
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,300
percent protein and they're just
going to immediately have this 

446
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:52,800
really dramatic body composition
change with higher lean, mass, 

447
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,600
and lower fat mass in every 
insulin resistance parameter, 

448
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,200
you can measure is going to get 
better at their health is going 

449
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,400
to give nothing's going to get 
better on the exact same 

450
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,300
calorie. 
So this is why I have a problem 

451
00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:07,900
with Cal really. 
The only reason I don't like 

452
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:10,800
calories is because of protein, 
I feel like protein calories, 

453
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,200
shouldn't even count. 
I mean, like it shouldn't be, 

454
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,200
they should be exempt from Cal 
basically is what I'm saying. 

455
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,900
So, I'll, I do think calories 
are important, I think calories 

456
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:27,300
matter, but they sort of break 
down when you're talking about 

457
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:30,500
protein versus non protein 
energy, which Kind of, why I 

458
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:34,000
fractionate out those two in the
book so much. 

459
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,900
So, I kind of want to dive into 
a performance section here 

460
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:42,200
because I feel like in the 
context of, you know, taking on 

461
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,500
a client that is just morbidly 
obese. 

462
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,700
It has a lot of body fat to lose
gravitating. 

463
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:50,700
Towards a higher protein, makes 
a ton of sense. 

464
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:52,900
Actually, I want to ask you one 
quick question on them. 

465
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:57,200
So I've noticed in the people 
that I've worked with if they're

466
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,300
coming from a carb heavy. 
The approach to food. 

467
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,000
They, they see some initial 
benefit from having many of 

468
00:28:06,008 --> 00:28:08,400
their initial calories. 
Come from dietary fat because I 

469
00:28:08,408 --> 00:28:11,200
feel like it's a smoother 
transition to learning how to 

470
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,100
train the body to oxidize fat as
a fuel source if there's quite a

471
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:18,800
bit of dietary fat coming in, 
but then as soon as they make 

472
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,000
that application, then I like to
titrate protein up and kind of 

473
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,700
figure out what their protein 
threshold is so to speak. 

474
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:27,900
Whereas if you just transition 
straight from a high carb to a 

475
00:28:27,908 --> 00:28:30,600
very high protein minimal fat 
it, To be a little bit more 

476
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000
miserable just in the experience
I've had with clients. 

477
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,200
Do you think there's any, have 
you noticed any that yourself 

478
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,400
like transitioning people from? 
I carve dependent diet to more 

479
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,800
of a high protein or high fat? 
Like transitioning is there a 

480
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,000
benefit to, you know, titrating 
that fat up initially and then 

481
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,900
titrating protein up or what 
have you noticed there? 

482
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,800
Yeah, I mean, I think 
historically I've done the same 

483
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,000
thing as have people. 
Eat higher thought initially 

484
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,200
when they're transitioning and 
And then trying to, you know, 

485
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,900
shave off some grams of fat when
they're, you know, losing 

486
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:07,400
weight. 
And I think that you're probably

487
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,700
right on there and I think a lot
of low carb out of kids are 

488
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:15,800
recommending the same thing 
although I to be honest I don't 

489
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,600
know how much of that is 
necessary metabolically versus 

490
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,700
just a behaviourally. 
People want to be able to eat 

491
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:28,800
more. 
I mean if you just write from a 

492
00:29:28,808 --> 00:29:33,500
standard American Into protein, 
sparing modified fast the 

493
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:36,000
amount. 
You're eating is so tiny, by 

494
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:41,700
comparison that I think people 
would just freak out. 

495
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:46,100
It's also so restrictive. 
And so painful that it's just 

496
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,500
mind-blowing. 
And so, I, I think you've gotta 

497
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,600
take baby steps and sort of 
progress it, like you said, 

498
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,300
okay, let's start with just 
eating less carbon and then 

499
00:29:56,300 --> 00:29:59,600
we'll worry about, you know, 
rebalancing protein and fat, 

500
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:02,800
That to maximize its how you 
maximize fat loss. 

501
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,300
And that's probably gonna 
involve eating fewer fat grams. 

502
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:10,300
So II, totally agree with 
gradual progression, and and may

503
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:14,300
be eating less carbs is step one
and so I'm kind of doing the 

504
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:16,100
same thing. 
So I'm right, I'm right there 

505
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:18,700
with you on that. 
Got you got you because I think,

506
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:22,100
you know, in the context of 
someone that's trying to lose a 

507
00:30:22,108 --> 00:30:24,500
ton of weight. 
You know, I feel like our 

508
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:27,000
recommendations are pretty 
pretty well aligned. 

509
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,800
I mean focusing on getting 
quality protein sources in And 

510
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:34,100
not because if you have a ton of
body fat to lose a ton of 

511
00:30:34,108 --> 00:30:38,300
adipose tissue, it doesn't 
really make sense to consume a 

512
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:41,400
ton of dietary fat. 
If your body is adapted to 

513
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,300
burning your stored fat, so I 
feel like we can both agree 

514
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,000
there that you don't need to 
prioritize eating, you know, 

515
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,100
tablespoons of butter. 
If you have a bunch of fat to 

516
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:52,100
lose, I think, what, where I 
want to kind of take things now 

517
00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:55,000
and get your opinion on his, 
from a performance standpoint, 

518
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,300
like for someone that is 
metabolically sound. 

519
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:01,900
They have a good solid. 
Foundation, you know from like a

520
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:04,300
caloric Baseline standpoint, 
they really trying to maximize 

521
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:06,900
performance because I feel like 
if you're not there and you're 

522
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:11,200
just needing to lose a bunch of 
body fat simply losing weight 

523
00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:15,000
overall, it's going to have the,
the classic 80/20, you know, 

524
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:17,300
analysis benefit towards your 
overall health. 

525
00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:19,400
Like it's going to improve your 
insulin markers, your blood 

526
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,400
glucose, I mean everything, when
it comes to like performance, 

527
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,100
and you're kind of already in a 
good starting position, I'd like

528
00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:29,700
to see if you know what's your 
take on macronutrient ratio. 

529
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,000
Recommendations there and does 
that offer a Nuance that would 

530
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,900
change what those 
recommendations are. 

531
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,300
Well, okay, so part of the 
problem for me when it comes to 

532
00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:48,100
Fat intake is that if you really
look at, like, fat that has 

533
00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:53,600
radio labeled carbons and you 
and you trace this. 

534
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:58,700
And you look to see how long it 
takes for this fat to be 

535
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:04,000
absorbed from the, you know, 
aluminum small intestine and 

536
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,800
travel through the wall of the 
small intestine and get 

537
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,700
repackaged just cried with Mike.
Bronze. 

538
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:12,500
And then get dumped out in the 
thoracic duct and go to your 

539
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:15,400
liver, and then end up in your 
out of a sites and blah, blah, 

540
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,100
blah, blah, blah. 
There's such a massive massive 

541
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:24,600
delay between when you eat fat 
and when it ends up anywhere 

542
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:35,300
that statistically speaking, I 
mean, within a PE of less than 

543
00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:38,200
0.05 statistically speaking, 
every single bit. 

544
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,600
Bit of fat, you eat ends up 
being stored in your fat cells 

545
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,800
and it's after it's gotten there
that it's released into your 

546
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,200
bloodstream that you're really, 
really burning it. 

547
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,900
You know what I mean? 
So pretty much all ingested. 

548
00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:57,200
Bad becomes stored fat and then 
you're using it Downstream from 

549
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,400
that. 
So I find that eating fat might 

550
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:09,600
help people With Society, in 
terms of just the incretins that

551
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,500
are secreted from small 
intestine because you have, you 

552
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:18,100
no fat in there or some other 
Factor, but I don't know that 

553
00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:24,100
you necessarily get an immediate
performance Boost from being fat

554
00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:28,200
versus The Fab that's already on
your body if you know I'm 

555
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,400
saying. 
So so I usually don't use fat as

556
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:37,300
a performance-enhancing. 
What kind of tool because I feel

557
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:41,700
like it's it's so much 
Downstream TimeWise that the fat

558
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:45,100
is going to be utilized. 
That it's not as critical as 

559
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:48,700
like protein and carbs that does
make sense. 

560
00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:53,200
I have a theory that the longer 
you are strictly adapted to 

561
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,200
burning fence. 
Like, for me, for instance, I've

562
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,900
been strict keto for five or six
years now, I feel like my blood,

563
00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:01,800
my body's ability to tap into 
that store fat and use. 

564
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,400
It is much more efficient than 
some of the Kind of you know 

565
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,900
always in purgatory limbo. 
Shaded gray going back and forth

566
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:10,900
from carbs, fats and proteins at
that make sense. 

567
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,900
Yeah, I know, I totally. 
I totally believe that. 

568
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:18,500
Now the, the difficulty there 
and is that, most people aren't 

569
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:20,699
going to be strict Quito and 
definitely like that. 

570
00:34:20,699 --> 00:34:25,100
So I mean, I don't look at it as
a sacrifice. 

571
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:27,699
I was it was I don't miss these 
carbohydrates but someone that 

572
00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:30,900
that inherently knows they're 
not going to be able to stick to

573
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:34,300
a very strict ketogenic, you 
know, high fat. 

574
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,100
Ketogenic diet, they're probably
not going to really see the full

575
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:41,100
benefit of being able to tap 
into those stored fat droplets 

576
00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:44,900
as a fuel source basically. 
So in that context I can see 

577
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:47,300
them benefiting from a 
performance standpoint, you 

578
00:34:47,308 --> 00:34:51,100
know, by using carbs. 
But is it possible? 

579
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,900
And that I don't know of any 
research articles on this. 

580
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:57,000
But is it possible for someone 
like me that wants to stay 

581
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:57,900
strict? 
Keto? 

582
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,200
There is a inherent benefit to 
that and like from an energy 

583
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,300
standpoint I should be. 
I mean all my bases. 

584
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,200
Should be covered. 
Well, I think that the longer 

585
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:15,600
you make your body, accomplish 
all the things you want to 

586
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,300
accomplish in a very low carb 
environment without carbohydrate

587
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:21,200
availability. 
I think you're just going to get

588
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,800
better and better and better as 
that oxidation and and it's like

589
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,100
adapter died. 
Now, your body has to do 

590
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:32,600
everything, you're demanding of 
it without any carbs. 

591
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,500
And so I think you do get a huge
Elation of everything. 

592
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:39,900
Every step involved in fat 
oxidation. 

593
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:45,700
So I totally agree with that. 
And I think you do get really, 

594
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:51,000
really efficient at utilization 
of fat and getting a ton of 

595
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:59,500
energy from fat rapidly. 
I don't know if I'm not sure. 

596
00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:04,900
And for someone as lean as 
yourself, you know, has tons of 

597
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:09,200
muscle and would probably have 
really good glucose disposal. 

598
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,500
I think you could probably do 
some sort of cyclical, keto, at 

599
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:18,900
this point and still be and 
still do just as well, I'm 

600
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:20,200
guessing, but I don't really 
know. 

601
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,300
Have you ever experimented with 
some sort of car Buffs? 

602
00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:27,900
Like a lot of cyclical? 
Keto people, I haven't in the 

603
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:29,000
past. 
Several years. 

604
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,600
I mean, I did when I was kind of
playing around with low carbon 

605
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,500
Quito in the beginning and it 
originally, like I've been 

606
00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:37,300
bodybuilding for 10 years. 
Now the first five years was 

607
00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:40,700
following a traditional, you 
know, quote unquote, bro, diets 

608
00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:44,700
of you know, high carbs at 
times, very high protein and 

609
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:47,200
very minimal fat. 
So I played around a lot of 

610
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,500
these different manipulations 
then but since adopting a 

611
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:54,400
ketogenic lifestyle, I've 
noticed, so much more benefit by

612
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,900
staying strict keto, like a lot 
of the knocks that people have 

613
00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:59,500
against. 
Most strict Quito from a 

614
00:36:59,508 --> 00:37:02,400
bodybuilding standpoint, such as
the ability to get a pump, have 

615
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,300
vascularity lose body fats. 
Like I just have not suffered 

616
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:10,700
from like I'm I got my Pro card.
Last time I competed full 

617
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:13,600
following a strict ketogenic 
protocol with very high dietary 

618
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,200
fat, and actually very minimal 
protein, which was, totally 

619
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,000
counter to any of the 
competitors that I was up 

620
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,500
against. 
So I feel like what I've done 

621
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,200
and I'm continuing to do has 
worked really well for me, but I

622
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,900
feel like that's level. 
You know, benefit from that is 

623
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:34,100
only Amplified the longer you 
stay strict keto, so I could 

624
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:36,800
probably totally get away with 
eating carbohydrates. 

625
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,300
I never was insulin-resistant. 
I mean I could eat carbs and and

626
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,600
tolerate them very well. 
I just prefer the benefit that I

627
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,800
get from not eating them. 
Okay. 

628
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,900
Yeah, that makes sense. 
Yeah, I get it. 

629
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:53,700
What about? 
Cuz like one of the the main 

630
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:58,500
reasons that I've kind of 
gravitated towards this style of

631
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:01,600
eating, especially in the 
context of bodybuilding natural 

632
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,500
bodybuilding is from a hormonal 
standpoint. 

633
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:08,000
I see, you know so many of the 
competitors that I've competed 

634
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,600
against in the past that are 
following this traditional diet,

635
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,500
a very high protein low fat, 
they have pretty significant 

636
00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:19,400
hormonal down-regulation I mean,
I had a natural body, but on the

637
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,500
podcast, the other week and I 
mean, like he's been prepping 

638
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:24,100
for several weeks, there's no 
libido. 

639
00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:28,000
I mean, all testosterone is 
tanked and I think in the 

640
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,300
context of natural bodybuilding 
when calories are is low, no 

641
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:32,300
matter what diet you're going to
do, you're going to see it down 

642
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:35,000
regulation there. 
However, I feel like following a

643
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,200
ketogenic protocol with adequate
dietary fat is probably the 

644
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,400
single best thing you can do to 
minimize any adverse effects in 

645
00:38:42,408 --> 00:38:45,400
that regard. 
Oh, well, and that's really 

646
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,800
interesting. 
And I have no experience with 

647
00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:52,400
Any body builders who are doing 
a strict ketogenic approach. 

648
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:57,500
I have I have physique 
competitors who are natural, who

649
00:38:57,500 --> 00:39:02,500
are doing the standard approach.
And I have definitely seen, you 

650
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:07,500
know, testosterone levels under 
100 in men, as you know, in the 

651
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:10,700
week or two before show. 
I mean, it's just atrocious, 

652
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:13,300
it's really bad and so I don't 
know. 

653
00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:18,800
I really free of knowledge as to
how well your Act against that 

654
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,000
on this ketogenic approach but 
it sounds cool. 

655
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,900
Yeah, I mean for me I listened 
to your podcast, you know, in 

656
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:29,400
collaboration with Williams who 
failed, Ted name and are not 

657
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:34,300
tending, but you are today, but 
Paul saladino, and crispo and 

658
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,700
you're talking about body 
butters. 

659
00:39:35,700 --> 00:39:38,900
There's so many times I wanted 
to jump through the audio and 

660
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,400
put my two cents in there 
because it's funny because I 

661
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,500
think I see so many people you 
know they look at body butters 

662
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:47,900
to see these these magazine 
cover. 

663
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:50,200
They want to emulate that they 
want to get there. 

664
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:52,600
You know, have six pack, 
etcetera, Etc. 

665
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,300
And they look at these, these 
bodybuilders, as the poster boy,

666
00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:01,400
for what health is and it's hard
for me to stick this because you

667
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,800
know, that's where I came from 
and that's when I was at my 

668
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,000
unhealthiest you know, that 
that's healthy compared to 

669
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,000
someone that's morbidly obese 
and 500 pounds and has all kinds

670
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,300
of, you know, chronic illness. 
But in the in the context of 

671
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:18,700
true Health, that is not near 
the the Sure that I want to 

672
00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:22,000
paint for people and I feel like
having transition to more of a 

673
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:26,300
ketogenic approach to 
bodybuilding by having adequate 

674
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:31,600
protein and enough dietary fat. 
That's really, really improved 

675
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,800
my performance more so than 
anything I'd ever done. 

676
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,100
And manipulated in the past, 
from a hormonal standpoint from 

677
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:40,400
a satiety standpoint and also 
from a reverse dieting 

678
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,500
standpoint. 
Because when you're dieting down

679
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:46,500
and your calories are very low, 
you down regulate, your 

680
00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:49,700
metabolism is just part of And a
lot of competitors. 

681
00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:52,300
When they start adding these 
calories, back in and reverse 

682
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:55,100
dieting, especially if it's 
coming from high carb sources. 

683
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:58,800
They almost inevitably be put on
a ton of, you know, unnecessary 

684
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,100
body fat and their leptin and 
ghrelin hormone levels and their

685
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,500
their sexual hormone levels are 
all out of whack and it just 

686
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:08,900
takes a long time to fully 
equalize that whereas with a 

687
00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:12,900
ketogenic approached by never 
dipping too low from a dietary 

688
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:15,700
fat standpoint. 
The first place, I'm able to 

689
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,700
mitigate pretty much all of 
those adverse Effects, which is 

690
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:21,200
made the whole sport of 
bodybuilding much more 

691
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,200
sustainable and enjoyable. 
Yeah. 

692
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,100
The I mean, that's all just 
super interesting to me because 

693
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:29,900
I see these people with the 
standard approach and, you know,

694
00:41:29,900 --> 00:41:33,700
maybe a month out from, from 
show from their show, they're 

695
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,100
ultimately a super-healthy, they
have, you know, insulin levels 

696
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:43,700
wall on there, a 1 and C is, you
know, for when I, they're just 

697
00:41:43,700 --> 00:41:46,400
their triglycerides are 30. 
I mean, they're just extremely 

698
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,200
healthy but they still have to 
Around would be down the feeling

699
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,200
pretty good but man, you go, you
get like, three, two, one week 

700
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,400
out, they feel like they're 
going to die. 

701
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:02,600
Their testosterone is drops out 
of triple digits and everyone's 

702
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,300
just like Crawling by their 
eyelids and some anything I 

703
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:10,800
think you're totally an enigma 
because I have, I have no 

704
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,400
clinical experience with anyone 
doing what you're doing, 

705
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:19,600
everybody, I have is doing, you 
know, the The peak week is, 

706
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,200
like, you know, the starting a 
couple days out, it's, you know,

707
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:30,100
800 grams of carbs a day. 
You're eating no fat at all and 

708
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:32,500
it's just opposite of what 
you're doing. 

709
00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:35,100
So it's all really, really, 
really interesting to me. 

710
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:37,900
That's why I really want to get 
you down here because I feel 

711
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:41,300
like like I get I'm not near as 
active on Twitter as you are. 

712
00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:45,100
But I see so many people, you 
know, pegging us up against each

713
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:48,000
other and and you know saying 
something that I've posted 

714
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:50,100
Sitting there, ask you about it 
and vice versa. 

715
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,700
And you know, like somebody 
posted about the keto brick, 

716
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:55,800
which I'm making you were 
talking shit about that and I'm 

717
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,000
like, I think the context is 
just off here for everybody. 

718
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,600
Let's just dive in and have a 
conversation because I feel 

719
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,700
like, you know, with what you 
and I have already said, if 

720
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:09,000
someone is just coming from a 
carb heavy diet to, you know, 

721
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,100
like eating diets having a 
higher dietary fat intake to 

722
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:14,600
make that transition smoother 
makes a lot of sense. 

723
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,900
So we can both agree there and I
feel like once that level of fat

724
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,900
Meditation has occurred and 
people are efficient at tapping 

725
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:24,800
into their store, body fat 
titrating, that protein up and 

726
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,800
making, you know, that 
macronutrient a pro or t is is 

727
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,200
the way to go and I think we can
both agree there. 

728
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,800
I feel like from a performance 
standpoint, there's just so much

729
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,100
little Nuance in different ways 
of doing things because yes, 

730
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:40,600
there's, there's a ton of people
that are incredibly lean out 

731
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:45,500
there that have followed, a very
high protein, low fat protocol, 

732
00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:48,600
and they able to get very 
shredded, but There's not a 

733
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,400
whole lot of you know, even 
anecdotal evidence. 

734
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,200
They're certainly not any 
research backed evidence of 

735
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,600
people that are doing kind of 
what I'm doing in the space with

736
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,800
regard to getting down to, you 
know, three or four percent body

737
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,300
fat while maintaining hormone 
levels in which my dietary fat 

738
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:08,700
intake is consisting of about 
eighty percent of my calories, 

739
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:10,300
which has worked really, really 
well for me. 

740
00:44:10,300 --> 00:44:12,900
And it hasn't negatively 
impacted my ability to get down 

741
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:15,600
to that low body fat. 
In fact, I would argue that it's

742
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:20,800
enhanced my ability to do so. 
Yeah and I, you know, I totally 

743
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,000
believe you. 
I'm a member of this ketogenic 

744
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,400
bodybuilding Facebook group and 
I see what people are pulling 

745
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,800
off in these, you know, script 
ketogenic States and and I think

746
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,100
there's just really something to
it and it's all very interesting

747
00:44:37,100 --> 00:44:41,400
to me because I don't have a lot
of clinical experience with that

748
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,700
because because people like you 
are, you know, few and far 

749
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:46,900
between. 
So I think it's really cool and 

750
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:50,300
I think it's Really interesting 
and somebody needs to be 

751
00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:54,300
studying you at all and anyone 
else who's doing this approach, 

752
00:44:54,300 --> 00:44:56,500
just to see where all the magic 
is happening. 

753
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,400
And I appreciate that. 
I really do want to make it a 

754
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,000
point to get this information 
out there. 

755
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,500
Because I see so many people. 
Like we were just saying, you 

756
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:06,900
know, just screw up their 
metabolism and their hormones. 

757
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:09,600
And when you screw up your 
metabolism, it doesn't really 

758
00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:12,900
fix itself overnight like that. 
Something that can take years to

759
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:15,200
fully correct. 
And it's hard to see. 

760
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,700
So many people chase this Dream 
of looking a certain way in 

761
00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:22,300
reaching that goal but at the 
expense of their health. 

762
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,400
When there's a much healthier 
more sustainable, enjoyable way 

763
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,600
of going about it. 
So, that's kind of why I'm, you 

764
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,100
know, trying to scream from the 
rooftops, what I've learned over

765
00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:34,800
the years, but I feel like 
you're doing a very good job and

766
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:38,400
eloquently to portraying the 
importance of protein and 

767
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,700
prototyping, that is a 
macronutrient because I do agree

768
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:43,300
with you, wholeheartedly in that
many people are not consuming 

769
00:45:43,300 --> 00:45:47,000
enough protein and too many 
people especially in the keto 

770
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,400
spheres Scared of protein, which
is not really optimal either. 

771
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:52,300
Right? 
Right, right. 

772
00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:54,900
Yeah. 
It's yeah. 

773
00:45:54,900 --> 00:45:59,700
I just think that's not helpful.
What about from like a lab? 

774
00:45:59,700 --> 00:46:03,400
You know, blood draw standpoint.
I think, is there anything that 

775
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,500
that you would recommend people 
look at with regard to, you 

776
00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:11,100
know, if they're not really sure
of what to do from, you know, 

777
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:14,400
macronutrient standpoint. 
Like if they're taken in a lot 

778
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,800
of dietary fat, and they've got 
high blood glucose and And 

779
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,000
really high lipid scores. 
Like, what would you say to that

780
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,200
person? 
Well, so a couple things. 

781
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,700
First of all, I love 
triglycerides. 

782
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:32,200
Like fasting triglyceride is a 
phenomenal marker for just being

783
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:35,700
over fat, right? 
If you really want your fasting 

784
00:46:35,700 --> 00:46:41,500
triglycerides to be ideally 
below, 100 Elite with the have 

785
00:46:41,500 --> 00:46:43,000
to be. 
What was that? 

786
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,800
Last thing said below 100. 
Oh Ray-Ray, you really want to 

787
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,000
be below 100 on a good fasting 
triglycerides, you know, 12 

788
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:57,000
hours fasting, no coffee, just 
water, no calories, and Elite 

789
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:03,100
would be below 70, at least. 
And what triglycerides are are, 

790
00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:05,000
is fat energy in your 
bloodstream. 

791
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,000
That has no place to go because 
your fat cells are refusing it, 

792
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,800
right? 
Because they don't want more of 

793
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,900
that. 
Your muscles are refusing, the 

794
00:47:13,900 --> 00:47:17,800
fat energy, or Fossils are 
refusing your basically over fat

795
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:21,500
and triglyceride correlates 
really really well with insulin 

796
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:25,600
resistance and over fatness and 
visceral fat and all of this. 

797
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:30,600
So anyone who's got high 
triglycerides basically has 

798
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,100
energy toxicity where there's 
too much energy in their body 

799
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:37,500
and what you really want to do 
is in just less energy. 

800
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,200
That's definitely going to be 
carbs and probably fat butt. 

801
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:45,300
And so that's someone who really
wants to look at They're 

802
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:50,900
non-protein energy intake and 
try to shave that down in a 

803
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:53,700
sustainable way. 
I don't, I don't want anyone 

804
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:57,600
eating a zero fat diet. 
I also don't know that I would 

805
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,300
recommend is your absolute zero 
carb diet but you definitely 

806
00:48:01,300 --> 00:48:04,000
want to get both of those down, 
you know what I mean? 

807
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:12,500
I found that if your fasting 
blood sugar is too high, a lot 

808
00:48:12,500 --> 00:48:16,500
of times that means that you 
over Eight fat grams the day 

809
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:20,000
before. 
So like, if you're a type 2 

810
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,500
diabetic and you eat a bunch of 
cards, your blood sugar 

811
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:26,400
immediately goes up, you know, 
an hour later, your blood sugar 

812
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,600
is super high and everyone sees 
that on their glucometer and 

813
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,900
they get that, they understand 
that. 

814
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,400
But a lot of pre-diabetics are 
diabetics, wake up in the 

815
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,000
morning. 
Look at their blood sugar in 

816
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,700
there. 
Like wow, why is my blood sugar 

817
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:41,800
150? 
I didn't eat any carbs 

818
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,700
yesterday. 
I didn't eat any carbs 

819
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:45,700
overnight. 
I didn't You didn't cover this 

820
00:48:45,700 --> 00:48:46,700
morning. 
What's going on? 

821
00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:51,900
This is typically over ingesting
fat grams the day before so if 

822
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:54,600
you eat a whole but you know if 
you drink a gallon of heavy 

823
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,700
cream today, tomorrow morning 
you'll wake up with the highest 

824
00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:03,100
blood sugar you've ever seen. 
You know, it's just this sort of

825
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:10,200
Downstream response to acutely, 
filling up your fat cells and 

826
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,000
the the blood sugar will go up 
and that's a really good thing 

827
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,200
to be tracking. 
And just to sort of titrate with

828
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,800
fat intake, you know what I 
mean? 

829
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:23,300
Do you notice any increase in 
blood glucose from like if fat 

830
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:27,200
macros or held constant? 
But I titrate protein up. 

831
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,500
For instance, do you notice a 
gradual increase in blood 

832
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:33,300
glucose there? 
Well, definitely in type 1 

833
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:37,300
diabetic. 
So protein is going to raise 

834
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:39,900
glucagon. 
And without the concomitant 

835
00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:43,300
insulin increase, you're 
definitely going to see blood 

836
00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:44,600
sugar. 
Go up in anyone. 

837
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:47,800
Who has any amount of insulin 
deficiency so that could either 

838
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,700
be a type 1 diabetic, or a 
burned-out type to who has less 

839
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:55,000
beta cell mass and they can't 
mount an insulin response to 

840
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,700
that. 
So yeah, I will definitely see 

841
00:49:57,700 --> 00:50:02,800
blood sugar's going up. 
In type 1 diabetics or tape to, 

842
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,200
with beta cell burnout. 
I'm still not convinced that 

843
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,100
that's necessarily a bad thing 
and I still want my type 1 

844
00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:12,600
diabetics to prioritize protein 
and then just ask for that with 

845
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,600
insulin, but anyone who has Is 
intact pancreatic function 

846
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,100
should not see their blood sugar
go up at all, no matter how much

847
00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:23,400
protein they eat. 
So the main kind of red flag, 

848
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,500
you would you would say is 
seeing both fasting blood 

849
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:31,400
glucose and triglycerides above 
100 simultaneously, right? 

850
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,400
That's the worst. 
That's where, you know, you 

851
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,200
know, you're over fat, you know,
you have no more room to store 

852
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,300
energy, you need to be on a very
low energy diet, which is 

853
00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:46,300
typically weigh less carbs and 
probably So less fat, although 

854
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,100
for the average American, their 
problem isn't isn't eating too 

855
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:52,300
much fat is eating too many 
carbohydrates? 

856
00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:56,800
I mean, your average American 
males, eating 98 grams of 

857
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,600
protein a day female. 
It's sixty eight grams of 

858
00:50:59,607 --> 00:51:04,100
protein, they're both eating 
around 100 grams of fat and then

859
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,200
about 300 grams of carbs. 
So the problem here isn't really

860
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,500
the fat intake, you know, 100 
grams of fat. 

861
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:16,300
That's a pretty reasonable fat 
intake and In my opinion, I just

862
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:20,600
feel like the cards are way too 
high and the proteins too low. 

863
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,300
And so what you're really trying
to do is rebalance those and of 

864
00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:29,500
course, when you increase 
protein you get so much the Tidy

865
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:33,300
from that that is easier to eat 
less carbohydrates at that 

866
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:35,400
point. 
Yeah, I totally agree there. 

867
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,100
I feel like for, you know, the 
general population is over 

868
00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:43,000
consuming process carved. 
If they just took those calories

869
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,900
from carbs and Initially evenly 
distributed in between protein 

870
00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:50,500
and fat and then kind of checked
markers along the way and were, 

871
00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:53,600
you know, cognizant of what 
their society was and then they 

872
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,200
can titrate protein up or fat 
down as they went. 

873
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,400
The thing that would be the like
a huge step in the right 

874
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,800
direction. 
Yeah, I absolutely. 

875
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,400
What about the the the nutrient 
quality like micronutrients that

876
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,900
kind of diving into what these 
macro nutrients are consisting 

877
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:10,800
of. 
You know, like do you put much 

878
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,800
emphasis on the types of 
protein? 

879
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,000
You're you're trying to get in 
Nor you pretty much just looking

880
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,700
at it as a macronutrient 
standpoint. 

881
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:21,800
Well, I'm really really 
concerned about minerals because

882
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,100
we have a ton of studies that 
show that if you're low on any 

883
00:52:26,100 --> 00:52:30,000
particular mineral, you're just 
going to keep eating until you 

884
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,500
get it. 
So I think that it makes a lot 

885
00:52:33,500 --> 00:52:37,500
of sense to Target minerals. 
Luckily those track with protein

886
00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:41,700
in most real foods. 
So if you're just eating high 

887
00:52:41,700 --> 00:52:46,000
quality protein sources, your 
probably going to get all the 

888
00:52:46,008 --> 00:52:48,400
minerals you need. 
But I think for that reason, I 

889
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:53,300
would rather see people eat 
nutrient-dense food instead of 

890
00:52:53,300 --> 00:52:56,300
like just whey powder all day 
long, you know what I mean? 

891
00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:59,900
Like, I think you'd be better 
off eating pastured eggs, and 

892
00:52:59,908 --> 00:53:03,900
grass-fed, beef and wild caught 
fish, and seafood and green 

893
00:53:03,900 --> 00:53:08,400
vegetables, and all of these 
protein sources, instead of, you

894
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,800
know, you're processed, Pea 
protein or your hemp protein or 

895
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,100
your whey protein, which is 
probably not going to be as good

896
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:21,300
from a micronutrient standpoint.
I don't think that anybody needs

897
00:53:21,300 --> 00:53:26,300
to necessarily track their micro
nutrient intake because it's it 

898
00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:30,800
tends to just follow protein and
these properly raised animal 

899
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,900
foods. 
But I am, you know, always 

900
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:38,500
concerned about people getting 
adequate mineral intake, totally

901
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:41,200
agree there, I can't take less 
time I hadn't. 

902
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,700
Most of my calories come from a 
whey Shake, but I feel like 

903
00:53:43,700 --> 00:53:46,600
that's a big mistake. 
People are making right, which 

904
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,900
is 11 definite, step in the 
right direction, and I feel like

905
00:53:49,900 --> 00:53:53,800
people are prioritized in the 
keto Corner boar low-carb space.

906
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,100
I feel like they've placed a 
priority on nutrient dense foods

907
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:00,400
the Whole Foods and that's one 
thing that you've always said 

908
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,200
that I agree with is trying to 
eat the whole animal, whether it

909
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,700
be like the whole vegetable or 
the whole animal, you know, like

910
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:09,600
the like seafood, getting the 
mussels and the clams and stuff 

911
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,200
of that nature, right? 
Exactly. 

912
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:15,800
What about the just out of 
curiosity. 

913
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,200
What is your take on zero carb 
or like, no? 

914
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,600
Vegetation cuz carnivore is 
really hot right now. 

915
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,200
I'm not carnivore per say I'm 
carnivalesque I guess. 

916
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:29,200
But do you feel like there's any
any deficiencies from like a 

917
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,200
mineral or micronutrient 
standpoint from not having that 

918
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,200
vegetation? 
Well, I okay I have a couple 

919
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,700
concerns there. 
I mean, like, I love carnivore 

920
00:54:38,700 --> 00:54:41,300
diets for someone with some 
autoimmune. 

921
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,200
Aziz. 
He's just trying to eliminate 

922
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,700
any potential plant talks and I 
think that's smart. 

923
00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:53,400
I can get makes a lot of sense, 
but I think that every pure 

924
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:59,000
religious carnivore out there 
could probably throw in, they 

925
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,900
could find some sort of plant 
food, that would not impact them

926
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:05,900
negatively. 
That would probably be 

927
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:08,700
beneficial. 
Like, is there any reason why 

928
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:14,200
your Sean Baker's or the world? 
Not eat, you know, 95 percent of

929
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:20,300
their calories from ribeye and 
then like a cucumber or, you 

930
00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:23,600
know, something like some sort 
of benign low sugar fruit. 

931
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,300
There's there's basically no 
reason why you couldn't eat some

932
00:55:27,300 --> 00:55:29,100
of these Foods. 
They're not going to have 

933
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:35,500
anything toxic there. 
And the idea is if you broaden 

934
00:55:35,500 --> 00:55:38,600
the foods that you're eating, 
you're probably going to do 

935
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,100
better from micronutrients 
bread. 

936
00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:44,300
Definitely going to do better 
subjectively. 

937
00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:47,300
In terms of your diet being less
restrictive. 

938
00:55:47,300 --> 00:55:50,000
It's easier. 
To maintain long-term the less 

939
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,600
restrictive. 
Your diet is the better. 

940
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,600
Your long-term adherence is 
going to be for almost everyone.

941
00:55:54,900 --> 00:55:57,900
And so I think the game is to 
maybe start out with this 

942
00:55:57,900 --> 00:56:03,100
carnivore template and then add 
in foods that are probably 

943
00:56:03,100 --> 00:56:06,500
beneficial and not going to do 
anything bad to you. 

944
00:56:06,500 --> 00:56:11,200
So I really I feel like 
carnivores a good elimination. 

945
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,100
It but you don't really want to 
stay there because nobody's 

946
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:17,600
convincing me. 
That there aren't at least a few

947
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,900
plant foods of these. 
People could add back in with no

948
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:22,600
problems whatsoever. 
And you only just stand to 

949
00:56:22,607 --> 00:56:24,800
benefit. 
So, that's kind of my take on 

950
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,300
the, on the Carnival thing. 
It's like why not figure out 

951
00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:31,700
what you can add back in. 
That's almost certainly going to

952
00:56:31,700 --> 00:56:34,500
be a good from. 
It's just a nobility point of 

953
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:38,600
view and a micronutrient array 
point of view and it's probably 

954
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,600
not going to do anything bad to 
you. 

955
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:42,600
I don't disagree with that at 
all. 

956
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,400
I feel like there's a lot of 
people that do hot have 

957
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,200
autoimmune issues, that may want
to stay strict corner of will. 

958
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,200
But there's significantly more 
individuals that are totally 

959
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,100
fine to eat these Foods. 
I'm not convinced that there's 

960
00:56:55,100 --> 00:56:58,500
any inherent performance 
benefits that comes from them 

961
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:03,000
per se, but I feel like having 
just a vast array of what your 

962
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,400
options are, could probably help
from a sustainability standpoint

963
00:57:06,700 --> 00:57:09,800
and then also just from a 
psychological standpoint, but 

964
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,500
I'm not necessarily convinced 
that that there's any like most 

965
00:57:13,500 --> 00:57:15,900
micronutrients are in much 
denser Supply. 

966
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:19,000
In like organ Meats, for 
instance, then in most vegetable

967
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,700
sources, there is an argument 
against vegetables from like a, 

968
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:26,600
like a Fido toxin standpoint, 
but I'm not really sure where I 

969
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,200
sit on that either. 
I think, I think in the Plant 

970
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:34,000
World I'm mostly mentally 
picturing someone eating low 

971
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:41,300
sugar fruit and and I and I kind
of think about it this way, you 

972
00:57:41,300 --> 00:57:43,800
know, it's like humans 
definitely evolved from 

973
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,800
frugivores. 
So there's no question we've 

974
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:50,300
been eating fruit since forever.
And the fruit is a part of a 

975
00:57:50,300 --> 00:57:52,500
plan that actually wants to be 
eaten. 

976
00:57:52,500 --> 00:58:00,000
So it makes sense that it would 
be less toxic and so, So I also 

977
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:05,800
think that, you know, if you, if
you were 100 gather, we just 

978
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,200
dump you off in the wilderness, 
you're basically going to kill 

979
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,500
any animal, eat the whole thing,
but you're sure as hell going to

980
00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:12,700
eat any fruit that you happen to
find. 

981
00:58:12,700 --> 00:58:16,000
And so does seem to be like, 
just from an evolutionary 

982
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,900
perspective, maybe not a crazy 
terrible combination. 

983
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,400
Yeah, totally agree. 
What do you think about 

984
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:28,100
vegetables from a like an 
absorption of nutrients in the 

985
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:31,400
Eats and proteins and fats 
standpoint, do you feel you 

986
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,900
know, having a large portion of 
greens for instance in tandem 

987
00:58:35,900 --> 00:58:39,400
with your meats and fats is 
going to inhibit the full 

988
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,500
absorption of those nutrients? 
Or is it going to have any 

989
00:58:42,500 --> 00:58:46,400
effect effect whatsoever? 
Well okay to be honest, I think 

990
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,700
vegetables are kind of a joke 
like vegetables are a joke, all 

991
00:58:49,700 --> 00:58:55,600
of our vegetables, we created in
the last thousand years like we 

992
00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:00,000
took this Brassica species, is 
why Wild mustard which just 

993
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,000
happens to be one of the few 
plants that humans can eat in 

994
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,200
its entirety and manage to 
detoxify it and then we 

995
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,700
crossbred the hell out of it. 
You know, if you select for the 

996
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:13,200
terminal buds, you get broccoli 
and the lateral buds, you get 

997
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,600
brussels sprouts. 
And the flower budget, 

998
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,800
cauliflower and blah blah blah. 
We basically manufactured every 

999
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:24,000
vegetable in the grocery store 
within the past thousand years 

1000
00:59:24,500 --> 00:59:28,100
and you know, we didn't have 
kale in this country until 200. 

1001
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:33,200
To go the potato for shit. 
Europe, 400 years ago, I mean 

1002
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,300
all these vegetables are 
hyper-modern. 

1003
00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:38,200
We've created a mall, they're 
pretty much a joke. 

1004
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,900
Nobody was flying in kale from 
Southern California in the 

1005
00:59:42,908 --> 00:59:47,000
winter time and making a kale 
smoothie and there's, you know, 

1006
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,500
a lot of toxins, a lot of 
anti-nutrients, a lot of 

1007
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:54,300
oxalates, probably nobody needs 
to eat. 

1008
00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:58,000
I think they're just like this 
sort of filler. 

1009
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,000
ER, type thing. 
And so, what I'm talking about 

1010
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:07,000
plant Foods, I'm really more 
thinking about things like nuts 

1011
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,700
and seeds and fruit nuts and 
seeds. 

1012
01:00:10,700 --> 01:00:14,600
Of course, not wanting to be 
eaten, but fruit probably 

1013
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,600
wanting to be from a plant 
standpoint if you know what I 

1014
01:00:18,607 --> 01:00:20,600
mean. 
But yeah, vegetables are kind of

1015
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,500
like, I'm just like, no, 
whatever on vegetables, to be 

1016
01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:26,300
honest. 
Yeah, I think it's a pretty good

1017
01:00:26,300 --> 01:00:28,000
way to approach that for like 
people. 

1018
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,300
In the experiment with and see 
how their body tolerates it from

1019
01:00:31,300 --> 01:00:33,800
like an energy standpoint of 
digestion standpoint. 

1020
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:37,500
Because some people, I mean, 
they get really bloated these 

1021
01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:39,600
issues with them. 
So I mean, that case it makes 

1022
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,200
sense not to really over, 
consume them. 

1023
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:45,200
But if it if it doesn't have a 
negative impact and I don't feel

1024
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,900
like people should be scared of 
it saying similar to, you know, 

1025
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:50,200
protein, like I don't feel like 
people should be scared of over 

1026
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,400
consuming protein because 
overconsumption of protein, is 

1027
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,000
not really easily done. 
Right, right? 

1028
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,000
That's true. 
So, I don't wanna take up. 

1029
01:00:58,200 --> 01:00:59,600
Too much time here. 
I know you're getting busy 

1030
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,000
schedule. 
But what, what is one thing that

1031
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,700
you're particularly excited 
about just in the research or 

1032
01:01:04,700 --> 01:01:07,600
what you're doing personally? 
Like what are you a tamilian 

1033
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:11,100
trying to learn as much about 
right now and feel could be a 

1034
01:01:11,100 --> 01:01:13,700
big moving shaking piece in the 
in the space. 

1035
01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:19,800
Oh well, I mean so I am really 
fascinated by mitochondria, to 

1036
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,600
be honest. 
And if you look at every single 

1037
01:01:24,300 --> 01:01:29,300
every person who's pre-diabetic 
diabetic As diabetic parents, 

1038
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,900
overweight out-of-shape, chronic
disease. 

1039
01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:37,900
The one thing they all have in 
common is they're worse off from

1040
01:01:37,900 --> 01:01:41,100
a mitochondrial standpoint that,
you know, mitochondria make up 

1041
01:01:41,100 --> 01:01:45,400
30% of the weight of a normal 
healthy human. 

1042
01:01:45,700 --> 01:01:49,300
And all of these people who are 
genetically overweight or on 

1043
01:01:49,300 --> 01:01:52,700
Diabetes spectrum, they have 
smaller mitochondria, they have 

1044
01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:56,000
wars mitochondria they have 
lower mitochondrial function, 

1045
01:01:56,300 --> 01:02:00,000
they have Everything you can 
measure about. 

1046
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,000
Mitochondria, mitochondria size,
function, contents, 

1047
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,900
mitochondrial, biogenesis, the 
quantity of mitochondria, 

1048
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:12,000
everything about their 
mitochondria is smaller and 

1049
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:17,700
worse and the only way fat ever 
exits. 

1050
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:22,400
Your body is via your 
mitochondria like, physically 

1051
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,200
fat. 
Could not leave your body 

1052
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:29,100
without it being burned into 
carbon dioxide and Mitochondria 

1053
01:02:29,100 --> 01:02:34,400
and then exhale and so there's a
lot of chicken and egg. 

1054
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:39,100
In terms of do these people have
broken mitochondria and then all

1055
01:02:39,100 --> 01:02:42,500
the fat just accumulates and 
they can't burn it. 

1056
01:02:42,700 --> 01:02:45,900
Or did they poison their 
mitochondria from energy. 

1057
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:51,200
Toxicity from overeating, you 
know, carbs and fats and 

1058
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:55,000
basically then they busted their
mitochondria and now they can't 

1059
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,800
burn fat. 
Either way, I think this might 

1060
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:59,600
occur. 
Chondral health is just 

1061
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,800
absolutely crucial. 
You have to figure out some way 

1062
01:03:03,100 --> 01:03:06,300
to get more mitochondria and 
better mitochondria. 

1063
01:03:06,300 --> 01:03:12,900
And it seems to be that when you
demand more energy in your body,

1064
01:03:13,100 --> 01:03:17,000
your body immediately responds 
with newer and better. 

1065
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,700
Mitochondria any time, your 
energy requirement goes up and 

1066
01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:25,100
your energy. 
Availability goes down, you get 

1067
01:03:25,100 --> 01:03:27,800
more and better mitochondria, 
and you complex that. 

1068
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:31,000
Bye. 
Basically exercising at a time 

1069
01:03:31,300 --> 01:03:35,600
and then eating less non-protein
energy, your carbs and fats and 

1070
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,100
so I'm I'm really geeked out on 
anything that improves 

1071
01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:42,800
mitochondrial health and 
anything that breaks your 

1072
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,800
mitochondria. 
And what we know is that 

1073
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,400
metabolic oversupply basically 
eating too many carbs and fats 

1074
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,700
together can literally break 
your mitochondria. 

1075
01:03:52,700 --> 01:03:56,000
You have this mitochondrial 
fission where the mitochondria 

1076
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:01,200
split up in an attempt to be 
less efficient and then you get 

1077
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:06,000
all these mutant mitochondrial 
DNA from reactive oxygen species

1078
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:11,700
and you pretty much just it's 
this downward spiral because 

1079
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:16,600
it's like you overrate energy 
and broke your mitochondria and 

1080
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,100
then your might have you don't 
have mitochondrial function to 

1081
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:22,100
burn fat and you just get fatter
and then your mitochondria are 

1082
01:04:22,100 --> 01:04:25,600
more broken and it's just 
downward spiral of energy 

1083
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,000
toxicity. 
And you seem to be able to 

1084
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:33,600
Reverse that by number one 
ingesting less energy which is 

1085
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,500
carving. 
Fast and number two demanding, 

1086
01:04:36,500 --> 01:04:40,200
more energy expenditure, which 
is basically high, intensity, 

1087
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,800
high power output, exercise, 
either resistance or cardiac. 

1088
01:04:44,100 --> 01:04:46,800
So I'm really all in on this 
mitochondrial thing. 

1089
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:51,300
I'm also fascinated by the 
mitochondrial haplogroups and 

1090
01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:57,900
how various genetic differences 
in mitochondrial DNA was in. 

1091
01:04:58,100 --> 01:05:04,800
Influenced with the humans 
distribution around the globe 

1092
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,500
and like you know the less 
coupled mitochondria are at the 

1093
01:05:08,500 --> 01:05:12,700
higher and lower latitudes where
you are supposed to eat more 

1094
01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:17,300
protein and fat and you have 
Loosely coupled mitochondria. 

1095
01:05:17,300 --> 01:05:20,800
So you're generating more heat 
to stay alive versus equatorial 

1096
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,700
regions where people have more 
tightly coupled mitochondria and

1097
01:05:24,700 --> 01:05:27,300
they literally do better on very
low fat. 

1098
01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:28,600
Very high. 
Diets. 

1099
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:32,400
And I think that we just don't 
know enough about all of this, 

1100
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,400
and we need to know more. 
So I'm always researching 

1101
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,700
anything I can find on this 
topic. 

1102
01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:41,000
That's incredibly fascinating. 
I mean, just speaking in and 

1103
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:45,100
Oakley again, when I do a 
contest prep, for instance, I'm 

1104
01:05:45,100 --> 01:05:48,900
obviously going through a period
of lower caloric, ingestion, and

1105
01:05:48,900 --> 01:05:51,100
I'm still demanding a lot from 
my body. 

1106
01:05:51,100 --> 01:05:54,400
And each time I cycle through, 
like, I'll do a contest prep 

1107
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,600
every two or three years, the 
natural body, but it's not 

1108
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:57,900
really healthy to do it every 
year. 

1109
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,100
Year. 
But every time I go through this

1110
01:06:00,100 --> 01:06:04,600
cycle, I have more lean mass to 
start with my metabolic demands 

1111
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:09,700
are higher and I'm able to get 
leaner while sustaining that 

1112
01:06:09,700 --> 01:06:12,100
same. 
Lean tissue are building lean 

1113
01:06:12,100 --> 01:06:15,300
tissue much more efficiently 
every single time I cycle 

1114
01:06:15,300 --> 01:06:18,200
through. 
So over the past several seasons

1115
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,700
of competing. 
For me it's possible in light of

1116
01:06:20,700 --> 01:06:23,500
what you just said that. 
I basically improved my 

1117
01:06:23,500 --> 01:06:28,500
mitochondrial Baseline starting 
point each time because I'm 

1118
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,000
asking more of my body in the 
context of lower food, you know 

1119
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,600
as I cycle through a prep and 
I'm basically just improving my 

1120
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:36,200
Baseline. 
Each time I go through. 

1121
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,200
Yeah, absolutely right. 
Which is a, which is awesome, 

1122
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,100
which is amazing. 
That's the holy grail and it's 

1123
01:06:43,100 --> 01:06:46,900
interesting because I feel like 
many people don't, they don't 

1124
01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:50,200
view Health through the lens. 
I mean, they look at that as 

1125
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,400
like yo-yo dieting, which is, is
not yo-yo dieting at all, but 

1126
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:56,800
they just want to maintain or 
they want to be in a chronic 

1127
01:06:56,900 --> 01:06:59,300
building phase and Or a chronic 
cutting phase? 

1128
01:06:59,300 --> 01:07:02,800
Like, I feel like people would 
benefit immensely if they looked

1129
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:06,300
through Health with a more 
holistic lens of really 

1130
01:07:06,300 --> 01:07:10,200
optimizing for building and then
therefore optimizing for 

1131
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,500
cutting. 
But having this, you know, 

1132
01:07:12,500 --> 01:07:15,700
cyclical approach to it is going
to be putting yourself in a much

1133
01:07:15,700 --> 01:07:18,100
better position. 
Metabolically, hormonal e, 

1134
01:07:18,300 --> 01:07:20,700
mitochondria, Lee speaking. 
I'm it's just much better. 

1135
01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:24,700
I think. 
Yeah, and I think everything we 

1136
01:07:24,700 --> 01:07:26,800
do has to be this cyclical 
approach. 

1137
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,000
You know, it's like fasting and 
feeding, and we have a 

1138
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,900
high-energy times in the year 
and low energy times a year. 

1139
01:07:32,900 --> 01:07:35,900
And I think that that's just 
part of what your body is 

1140
01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:37,700
expecting. 
Absolutely. 

1141
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,500
Well, maybe not stay. 
You know, stage prep that's 

1142
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:43,100
might be a little bit more 
extreme. 

1143
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,200
But yeah, it's I think it's 
definitely what your body is 

1144
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,000
expecting to begin with, 
totally, totally well, doctor 

1145
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,000
tip name and I really truly do. 
Appreciate Time, I've learned a 

1146
01:07:53,008 --> 01:07:56,600
ton as I expected to, and I just
like, said, appreciate your 

1147
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,700
stance on this. 
I feel like we have a lot more 

1148
01:07:59,700 --> 01:08:02,900
in common on our views, towards 
macronutrients and overall 

1149
01:08:02,900 --> 01:08:05,500
health, and people on the 
interwebs would like to give us 

1150
01:08:05,500 --> 01:08:08,200
credit for. 
But again, thank you for taking 

1151
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,000
the time to jump on your, where 
can people go to find out more 

1152
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,600
about you? 
Okay. 

1153
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:14,900
Yeah, well, I'm on Twitter at 10
a.m. inand. 

1154
01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:20,000
I've got a Facebook group burn 
fat and sugar and, of course, 

1155
01:08:21,100 --> 01:08:22,300
along with William. 
A shoe fell. 

1156
01:08:22,300 --> 01:08:26,100
We wrote this book called the PE
diet and the best place to pick 

1157
01:08:26,100 --> 01:08:29,500
that up is at the PE diet.com? 
Awesome. 

1158
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,899
I will certainly link out to all
those and make it easy for 

1159
01:08:31,899 --> 01:08:33,899
people to find you. 
I have read the PE diets. 

1160
01:08:33,899 --> 01:08:36,300
I do recommend it. 
It's a great read and hit you 

1161
01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:38,899
have a ton of really great 
illustrations, which you all 

1162
01:08:38,907 --> 01:08:41,300
made yourself, correct? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1163
01:08:41,300 --> 01:08:43,300
I'm like sort of a nerd that 
way. 

1164
01:08:43,300 --> 01:08:46,399
So I'm always making these 
crazy. 

1165
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:49,000
Little Graphics will keep doing 
what you're doing. 

1166
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,800
Cause I feel like they resonate 
with a lot of people very well. 

1167
01:08:51,899 --> 01:08:53,899
Well, and you're spreading the 
good message there. 

1168
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,300
Well, awesome. 
Same to you. 

1169
01:08:56,399 --> 01:08:57,399
Thanks. 
Thank you sir. 

1170
01:08:57,399 --> 01:08:58,000
Have a good one.