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Well, hello ladies and gents, 
Robert Sykes, kido savage.com. 

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Today I've got special guest 
doctor Josh Levitt. 

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He is a naturopathic physician 
and we dive into all things 

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health. 
We talk about his his transition

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to naturopathic medicine, his 
desire not to go the route of 

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traditional Western medicine. 
Talk about some of his 

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motivations there, kind of the 
origin stories to what got him 

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into health in the 1st place. 
And we just really peel the 

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curtain back on what is plaguing
us as a species with regards to 

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our current health status, what 
he's seeing in his clinic. 

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What are some foundational 
changes that can be made to 

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improve the health of his 
patients and the population at 

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large? 
We talked about things, things 

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that we can do on a very acute 
level from a from a bone density

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standpoint, from a soft tissue 
standpoint. 

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We talk about different 
biohacking techniques and 

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protocols, talk about the 
importance of proper nutrition, 

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recovery, mobility. 
We cover the gamut on a variety 

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of different topics. 
I throw it into the 

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conversation. 
I've got no doubt that you will 

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take something from this. 
So that further ado sit back, 

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relax, enjoy the conversation 
with Dr. Josh 

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and we are live, Doctor Josh, 
how are you Sir? 

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I am well, how are you? 
It's a pleasure to be here. 

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Yeah, man, it's a pleasure to 
have you. 

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I'm excited to be chatting with 
you today. 

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So I love bringing naturopathic 
doctors on because I feel like I

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don't know from a Western 
medicine standpoint there 

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there's certainly some benefits 
to that. 

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But I think there's, you know on
the other side of coin, other 

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side of spectrum, there's a ton 
of benefits that often go unsaid

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from the non western medical 
science. 

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So I'd love to kind of get some 
back story as to what pushed you

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that direction in the first 
place. 

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Absolutely. 
And I totally agree with you. 

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I'm, I'm one of the naturopathic
doctors who who believes that 

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there's good stuff in both, you 
know, on either side of that 

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bridge. 
And in fact, for the last, like 

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25 years of my career, I feel 
like I exist on that bridge in 

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between the alternative medicine
side on one side of the bridge 

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and the conventional or 
mainstream medicine. 

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Side on the other and and, and 
I'm doing what I can, doing my 

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part to try to bring those two 
sides closer together. 

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And yeah, if you want me to 
share the sort of how I got into

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this so many years ago, I'm 
happy to do that too. 

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Would you like to hear that 
story? 

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Yeah, I love a good origin 
story, man. 

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Give me even the details. 
Absolutely, Yeah. 

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Mine mine's actually pretty 
good, if I may say so myself. 

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So I I went to UCLA as an 
undergraduate. 

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I always wanted to be a doctor. 
I was kind of a rough and tumble

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kid, a surfer and a skateboarder
from Southern California, always

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banged up and bruised and spent 
much of my early childhood and 

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braces and splints and the like.
And and so orthopedics was 

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always very interesting to me, 
mostly because because of my 

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personal experience, I also come
from a family with lots of 

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doctors in it as well. 
So I went to UCLA in pursuit of 

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that. 
I studied neurophysiology there.

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And at the time, my dad was 
training medical residents in 

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clinical psychology at UCLA at 
the Med Center there. 

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And so I kind of like, I guess 
you might call it, backstage 

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access to doctors at the time. 
And they were surprisingly 

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discouraging about pursuing a 
career in medicine at the time. 

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And the reasons for that are all
the reasons why I think Western 

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medical healthcare, especially 
American healthcare, is so 

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troubled right now. 
Increasing influence of big 

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insurance companies, increasing 
influence of big pharma, etc. 

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And so they were discouraging me
from a career in medicine. 

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I didn't know what to do with 
that. 

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And so instead of going the 
conventional route to medical 

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school, I took off for a year. 
And I traveled around the world.

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This is sort of like me with a 
backpack, hitchhiking, sleeping 

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on beaches, youth hostels, that 
sort of thing. 

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I like it. 
And on that trip, I landed in 

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Switzerland. 
And when I arrived in 

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Switzerland, I was coming over 
from the Middle East. 

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At the time, I had a blister on 
my foot that became infected. 

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And it turned into this problem 
called Cellulitis, which you've 

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probably heard of before, a 
terrible, superficial infection 

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that was going deeper and and 
and was really. 

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I mean, quite honestly, limb 
threatening, maybe even life 

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threatening if nothing had been 
done about it. 

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A really serious infection that 
I had overseas in difficult 

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circumstances. 
Anyway, I call home and get a 

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prescription for antibiotics 
called into a pharmacy in 

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Switzerland and there I go 
hobbling off to this pharmacy 

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where I pick up this 
prescription for antibiotics. 

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It was Keflex Cephalosporin 
antibiotic. 

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And inside that pharmacy, there 
was all this natural medicine 

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stuff, right? 
Herbal medicine things, 

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homeopathic medicine things, 
nutritional things. 

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A whole new world that wasn't 
really relevant to my my 

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Cellulitis at the time. 
I needed the antibiotics, which,

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by the way, cured the infection.
But that experience inside that 

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pharmacy, seeing that medicine 
was a lot more than just the 

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pills behind the counter, really
lit a spark in me. 

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And in the fire from that spark 
is it's it's still burning 

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strong right now. 
That's my that's my origin story

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right there. 
I love it, man. 

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I love it. 
So out of curiosity, you know, 

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you going from a backpacking 
across the country kind of 

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phenomenon like what made you 
did, did do you still kind of do

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some of the stuff you still do 
like spontaneous act like that 

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or do you kind of feel more 
settled down now? 

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I feel, I mean, I I think I'm 
probably forced to be a little 

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bit more settled down. 
At that time. 

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I was single and I was cruising,
you know, at this point in my 

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life, I've been married for 23 
years. 

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I've got three kids and a dog 
here in the house. 

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So yeah, I'm a little bit more 
settled down, but that's that's 

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by necessity, not necessarily by
choice. 

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In fact my kids. 
The last one, my youngest one is

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17 years old, going to be a 
senior in high school this year.

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And so the the nest is almost 
empty, man. 

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And so when it is, I think more 
adventures, hopefully without 

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the Cellulitis, await both me 
and my wife. 

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Very cool, man. 
It's exciting stuff. 

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We got a 14 month or 14. 
Yeah, 14 month old now. 

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So we're just kind of getting in
that settled state with him. 

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But I've been thinking a lot 
about like, I love travel and I 

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love seeing different things. 
And it's just kind of cool, 

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different chapters of your life 
kind of figuring out what you 

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want to prioritize. 
Absolutely, Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
I remember those, those days 

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well, we had three kids very, 
very close together and that 

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was, that was a whirlwind. 
Those were, those were beautiful

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and challenging times. 
And I'm sure you would you would

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probably agree totally. 
So this may be totally off on a 

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tangent here, but I feel like 
the the spectrum of health and 

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Wellness and and medical 
intervention. 

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You know if you look at the 
traditional Western medicine 

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then you look at more of the you
know Eastern medicine, you look 

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at the homeopathic, you look at 
the natural path that you look 

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at all these different 
alternative medicines. 

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And I feel like the the bridge 
is is narrowing to the sense 

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that more people are becoming 
accept accepting of there being 

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a blended approach. 
What do you think the catalyst 

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for that acceptance is? 
Do you feel like the I feel like

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just more information over time 
is really hope that I feel like 

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people are becoming more you 
know just tuned in on how there 

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are benefits to these natural 
remedies especially when it 

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comes to within the realms of 
nutrition. 

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I feel like that maybe that's my
echo chamber because that's the 

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the area that I'm typically 
residing in. 

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But I feel like the general 
public is becoming more 

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receptive to their being a 
blended approach. 

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Do you think that the I 
certainly don't want to get into

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a tangent about, like vaccines 
and COVID and what not, but I 

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would imagine just the the State
of the Union, so to speak, over 

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the past few years, has opened 
people's eyes to the fact that 

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maybe just the direction that 
traditional Western medicine has

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taken may not be 
all-encompassing. 

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So first of all, I totally agree
with you. 

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I do think that the bridge 
between those two worlds used to

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be a lot, you know, longer the 
the the two worlds were very 

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much further apart and I think 
that they are closer together. 

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I don't take any personal 
responsibility for that, but I 

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do think it's true. 
I think that people on the 

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alternative medicine side are 
starting to recognize that there

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is some good stuff that comes 
out of Western medicine. 

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I think a lot of us would agree 
if we get hit by a truck or when

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an ambulance takes you to the 
emergency room in a trauma 

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situation. 
For my Cellulitis situation, you

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know that Western medical 
interventions can be great, but 

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I think that so there's been 
some movement in that direction.

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And then on the Western medical 
side, I mean, there was a time 

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in the early part of my career 
where Western medical doctors 

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that were in my own community. 
I live here in Connecticut, 

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right near Yale University and 
practiced here for many, many 

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years. 
There was a time when doctors 

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like me, including me myself, 
were just considered straight up

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quacks, right? 
Just just charlatans. 

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And now that is absolutely 
changed, partly by by way of 

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personal relationships and a 
mutual respect that comes there 

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and partly by way, I think, of 
what of what you just suggested,

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which is that increasing 
information, right? 

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In the era of my career, there's
been this explosion of the 

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Internet and the information 
economy, and people have 

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information that was much more 
difficult to access before. 

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And are starting to question 
authority in every kind of way, 

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right, whether it's Western 
medical or otherwise. 

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And so, yeah, I think absolutely
we are definitely at a place now

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where people are recognizing 
that Western medicine may have 

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its benefits but also has its 
liabilities. 

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And it's not a one-size-fits-all
solution. 

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It's not a universal solution. 
It's part. 

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Of the healthcare landscape and 
I think people are increasingly 

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understanding that. 
By the way, we still have a long

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ways to go. 
But but yeah, I think the idea 

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that doctors and Western 
medicine and pharmaceuticals are

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the Holy Grail and the only 
thing that you need for your 

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health is, is becoming. 
It's becoming more clear that 

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that's not true to more and more
people, which is good news, 

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totally. 
I think one of the, the main, 

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you know, beacons of hope for me
so to speak, within the the 

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realm of alternative medicine is
that comparatively to 

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traditional Western medicine, 
there seems to be much more of 

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an emphasis on preventative care
and proactive care as opposed 

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to, you know, retroactively 
prescribing a pill drug approach

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for something which I think that
is where people need to focus 

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on. 
Absolutely. 

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Yes, you're right. 
And you know I would piggyback 

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on that and say #1, I completely
agree, right. 

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If we if we if we get a handle 
on all the foundational things 

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that that promote health and 
things like diet, things like 

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exercise, stress management, 
sleep, all the foundational 

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aspects, you know, we could 
relieve a lot of the burden, 

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economic and and health burden 
on our on our healthcare system 

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if we if we treated it that way.
And that's good that a lot of 

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people are starting to move in 
that direction, understand that.

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And then there's this sort of 
like there's this, I don't know,

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harsh reality. 
You might say that in my shoes, 

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like in the in the world of 
clinical practice, as much as I 

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would love to say that I have a 
steady stream of people coming 

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into my practice over many, many
years saying like. 

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I'm doing great, Doc, and I just
want to help. 

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I want you to help me stay that 
way. 

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You know, like, Can you imagine,
like, that's like the idea of a 

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preventative healthcare practice
is that, like, people are 

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feeling great. 
They come to doctors to help 

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them stay that way. 
And and the sad reality, I 

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suppose, is that that's not 
really true. 

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That's not how it works, right 
in my office, both in my 

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practice and the practices of 
all the doctors that I work with

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in my clinic. 
It's sick people that come in, 

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sadly, you know, pain, sickness,
that's what motivates people. 

227
00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:57,390
And so we still have a long ways
to go in that regard as well. 

228
00:10:57,390 --> 00:10:59,510
It's still sickness and pain 
that motivate people. 

229
00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:01,910
But the good news is that a lot 
of times it motivates them to 

230
00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:05,910
come to a naturopathic Dr. or 
look for a nutritional or herbal

231
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:08,910
or less toxic, less invasive 
solution. 

232
00:11:08,910 --> 00:11:10,550
And and that's a beautiful 
thing. 

233
00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:12,670
That is certainly a step in the 
right direction. 

234
00:11:13,150 --> 00:11:16,230
I don't view you or your field 
of work as a, you know in 

235
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:20,920
quackery terms at all. 
But in in your realm, are there 

236
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,160
certain components of 
alternative health that the 

237
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,960
naturopathic realm views as 
somewhat quackery? 

238
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,440
Like, are there things so far in
the extreme that just like that 

239
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,120
is totally barking up the wrong 
tree there? 

240
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:34,150
Sure. 
Yeah. 

241
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:37,110
I mean I think that like 
anything, yes, absolutely. 

242
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:40,550
I mean alternative medicine can 
get way out there. 

243
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:43,390
Woo woo is the term that a lot 
of times is used Western 

244
00:11:43,390 --> 00:11:45,390
medicine can get way out there 
as well. 

245
00:11:45,390 --> 00:11:50,190
And and you know I, I the way I 
think about it is, is that if 

246
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:54,110
if, if a treatment or it's any 
kind of intervention is safe. 

247
00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:59,460
And is not going to delay a 
person getting otherwise 

248
00:11:59,540 --> 00:12:01,580
effective care, then I'm good 
with it, right. 

249
00:12:01,580 --> 00:12:06,420
Like if there is an intervention
that a lot of people believe is 

250
00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:08,860
a place you know works by way of
a placebo effect. 

251
00:12:08,860 --> 00:12:11,220
And there's lots of things both 
in Western medicine and an 

252
00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:13,140
alternative medicine that 
probably work that way. 

253
00:12:13,140 --> 00:12:16,740
The mind and the the power of 
belief is a very powerful thing 

254
00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:19,900
and so if if a person's going to
use something that doesn't 

255
00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:23,780
really have you know, strong 
biologic or physiologic effects.

256
00:12:24,060 --> 00:12:24,700
But. 
But. 

257
00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:28,660
Works by way of placebo. 
That's great as long as it's 

258
00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:32,180
safe, as long as it is effective
and doesn't delay the person 

259
00:12:32,180 --> 00:12:35,140
getting definitive care for a 
problem that could smolder or 

260
00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:37,100
get worse. 
And so, you know, I don't really

261
00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:39,940
think of of quackery that way 
either. 

262
00:12:39,940 --> 00:12:41,700
Unless, of course, people are 
just out there. 

263
00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:44,300
You know, ripping people off, 
selling them, you know, 

264
00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:47,810
high-priced or high markup. 
You know, items or products that

265
00:12:47,810 --> 00:12:50,930
just don't meet quality 
standards or known to be 

266
00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:52,570
ineffective, that's that's a 
real problem. 

267
00:12:52,570 --> 00:12:55,570
And absolutely there's 
charlatans out there in every 

268
00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:58,810
industry, no question, totally. 
What is the field of study that 

269
00:12:58,810 --> 00:13:01,130
has really garnered your 
interest as of late? 

270
00:13:01,130 --> 00:13:04,250
What's kind of your like, what 
are you digging your heels into?

271
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:05,810
What's a? 
What's the field of study that 

272
00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:08,770
is not really in the limelight? 
That probably should be. 

273
00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:12,770
Well, one of the one of the 
things that's really defined my 

274
00:13:12,770 --> 00:13:15,170
practice in my career and and 
and I'm a very, I have a very 

275
00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:17,530
eclectic practice. 
So I see people with all sorts 

276
00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:20,890
of different problems, common 
complex, chronic problems. 

277
00:13:21,490 --> 00:13:24,290
But the area that has captivated
me the most, where I think we 

278
00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:27,530
have so much education to do out
there to the general public, is 

279
00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:30,690
in orthopedics and in 
musculoskeletal pain, because 

280
00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:35,610
that's an area where #1. 
Hugely problematic, right? 

281
00:13:35,610 --> 00:13:39,930
Massive, massive amounts of 
pain, arthritis, degenerative 

282
00:13:39,930 --> 00:13:43,050
disc disease, sports related 
injuries, etc. 

283
00:13:43,050 --> 00:13:46,370
Out there, it's just a #1. 
Low back pain, for example, is 

284
00:13:46,370 --> 00:13:48,570
the number one reason why people
go to primary care doctors. 

285
00:13:48,890 --> 00:13:53,410
And then number two, people have
this sort of really strong 

286
00:13:53,410 --> 00:13:58,090
belief that Western medical 
orthopedics, Xrays, MRI. 

287
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,000
Guys, injections, surgeries, 
joint replacements are really 

288
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,880
the only way to go. 
And so that's an area you talk 

289
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,520
about digging your heels in. 
My heels are pretty firmly dug 

290
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,440
in there. 
Well, I'm totally frustrated 

291
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:15,040
with the Western medicine 
approach to proactively hedging 

292
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,000
against some of that stuff. 
Like I I tore my LCO doing some 

293
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,440
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu a couple 
months back and just simply 

294
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:26,640
going through the decision tree 
to get any, any form of MRI scan

295
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,040
or any, any any help whatsoever 
was just a massive hurdle. 

296
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,560
Like it was just not user 
friendly whatsoever. 

297
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,200
Like I was thinking, you know 
you can go and you can get a 

298
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,160
DEXA scan, you can get in body 
scan, you can go and get IV 

299
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,840
drips, pretty much any walk in 
clinic. 

300
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,440
Now there needs to be like some 
walk in Mri's with some 

301
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,160
knowledgeable text that can show
you what you're feeling, you 

302
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,720
know, graphically lay that on 
the screen and then you can have

303
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,960
some you know, form of action 
with that. 

304
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,080
But they make those barriers to 
entry so high through the 

305
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,360
conventional means. 
They do. 

306
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,320
You're right about that. 
And yeah, it's interesting. 

307
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,960
I know you kind of have 
biohacking tendencies, you know,

308
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,400
as an elite athlete yourself. 
And it's, it's, it's 

309
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,840
interesting, you know, you want 
to be able to get access to that

310
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,480
kind of imaging. 
And right now it's sort of 

311
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,200
behind this big insurance 
paywall. 

312
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,360
Interestingly, I had a patient 
actually not too long ago who 

313
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,040
similar to you, wanted to see 
images, MRI images of his hips. 

314
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,320
This guy was a runner at a 
pretty high level, and it was 

315
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,120
very difficult to get insurance 
approvals because his problem 

316
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,680
wasn't bad enough to justify, 
you know? 

317
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,640
The, the expense of bilateral 
hip Mri's, which in this country

318
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:34,440
cost about 1500 bucks each. 
So he, it just so happens that 

319
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,080
his wife lives in Greece, not 
lives in Greece is from Greece 

320
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,760
and they were going to Greece to
travel to visit her family. 

321
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,240
And so we went to Greece and he 
got bilateral Mri's, one of each

322
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,680
hip. 
And it was like, I think I saw 

323
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,840
the receipt, I think it was 300 
bucks, You know, it's 

324
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,680
unbelievable. 
All he had to do was have his 

325
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,840
family translate the report back
into English. 

326
00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:55,700
And so, yeah, part, partly what 
you're talking about is not 

327
00:15:55,700 --> 00:16:00,260
just, you know, it's not just 
dogma or ego doctors or can be 

328
00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:02,300
the only ones that have access 
to Mri's. 

329
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:05,660
It's just that whole healthcare 
landscape and the shockingly 

330
00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:09,340
high costs of healthcare in 
America that's driving some of 

331
00:16:09,340 --> 00:16:10,860
that. 
It is very frustrating. 

332
00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:14,480
You're right. 
Is there any any horizon on 

333
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:15,880
that? 
Like, is there any hope for the 

334
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,920
future in that becoming more 
accessible? 

335
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,280
Or is that just simply the 
landscape that we live in in 

336
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,960
America and it's not likely in a
correct course anytime soon? 

337
00:16:23,690 --> 00:16:26,770
Gosh man, you know that's a 
great question and I'm probably 

338
00:16:26,770 --> 00:16:28,210
not even the right person to 
answer that. 

339
00:16:28,210 --> 00:16:31,130
You're now talking about 
healthcare policy and politics 

340
00:16:31,130 --> 00:16:35,170
and you know and things like you
know the the influence of third 

341
00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:39,610
party insurance companies versus
a singlepayer type of system and

342
00:16:39,610 --> 00:16:42,610
and that's that's a rabbit hole.
I'm not sure we want to go down 

343
00:16:42,610 --> 00:16:45,410
right now. 
We could but that isn't we'll be

344
00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:46,250
sure. 
All right. 

345
00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:49,490
So let's let's talk about what 
we can control then. 

346
00:16:49,490 --> 00:16:52,050
So like for you and your 
practice and your, you know, 

347
00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:55,250
your clinical studies and you're
in working with patients and 

348
00:16:55,250 --> 00:16:58,530
clientele, like what does your 
typical avatar look like? 

349
00:16:58,530 --> 00:17:00,210
Like what? 
Who's coming into your office? 

350
00:17:00,210 --> 00:17:01,930
What are they typically wanting 
to do? 

351
00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:03,570
Sure. 
Yeah. 

352
00:17:03,570 --> 00:17:06,650
So like I said, as much as I 
wish it was a bunch of healthy 

353
00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:09,690
people coming in looking for 
assistance to keep it that way, 

354
00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:13,410
what really what what it truly 
is, is people who are suffering 

355
00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:15,849
in some way. 
And so I would divide those 

356
00:17:15,849 --> 00:17:19,650
people into two main categories 
in a nature pathic practice. 

357
00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:23,569
Number one, the first category 
would be people who are looking 

358
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:26,849
for a natural approach first, 
right? 

359
00:17:26,849 --> 00:17:30,450
So a doctor like me is the first
person that they see when their 

360
00:17:30,450 --> 00:17:34,170
knee hurts, when they have a GI 
problem, when they when 

361
00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:36,770
something is amiss, right. 
They're feeling something, They 

362
00:17:36,770 --> 00:17:39,210
have a symptom, something's new,
something's painful, something's

363
00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:41,050
problematic. 
And they don't want to go the 

364
00:17:41,050 --> 00:17:43,250
Western medical route first 
because they have some sense of 

365
00:17:43,250 --> 00:17:45,810
what that's going to look like. 
And so they come to me first. 

366
00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:48,020
So. 
You might call that primary 

367
00:17:48,020 --> 00:17:50,860
care, which is a kind of what a 
lot of people like to call it, 

368
00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:53,140
right? 
So that's category one. 

369
00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:57,020
And those problems can be across
the spectrum of of Health and 

370
00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:58,540
Human illness. 
Someone found a lump. 

371
00:17:58,540 --> 00:18:01,140
Someone has a new pain. 
Someone you know, whatever the 

372
00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:04,450
case may be, isn't feeling well.
And then the other category is 

373
00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:06,370
people who are almost the 
opposite of that. 

374
00:18:06,370 --> 00:18:11,250
These are people who are sick 
and they've been sick for a 

375
00:18:11,250 --> 00:18:14,610
while and they've seen lots of 
doctors, often starting with a 

376
00:18:14,610 --> 00:18:17,730
primary care doctor or an 
internist and then working their

377
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:21,730
way through the western medical 
specialists of which there are, 

378
00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:24,930
you know, all shapes and sizes 
for every different body part 

379
00:18:24,930 --> 00:18:27,050
and body system you have a 
different specialist. 

380
00:18:27,050 --> 00:18:31,010
Many of these folks have chronic
complex multi system illnesses 

381
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:32,610
and they work their way through 
that system. 

382
00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:34,650
And they're still suffering, 
right? 

383
00:18:34,650 --> 00:18:36,250
They're still sick. 
They still don't feel good. 

384
00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:39,970
And they're looking for somebody
who, you know, they usually come

385
00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:42,490
to me or my colleagues by way of
referral. 

386
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:46,410
Because we have a knack for 
looking at a complex case like 

387
00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:49,890
that in a holistic way, right? 
It looking at the whole person, 

388
00:18:49,890 --> 00:18:52,770
body, mind, spirit and the 
environment in which they live, 

389
00:18:52,770 --> 00:18:56,690
which often can yield insights 
that you lose when you see 

390
00:18:56,690 --> 00:18:59,490
someone who's just looking at 
your thyroid or just looking at 

391
00:18:59,490 --> 00:19:01,370
your elbow or like a like a 
specialist does. 

392
00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:03,620
So so yeah, those are the two 
main groups. 

393
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:06,260
And how long have you been doing
this now again? 

394
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:10,980
I have been doing this for over 
20 years now, 23 years. 

395
00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:14,940
If you were to map that out on a
timeline, would you say that 

396
00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:17,620
you're seeing an influx of 
patients coming in with these 

397
00:19:17,620 --> 00:19:19,900
ailments or is that declined 
over the years? 

398
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:24,580
I think that there is increasing
public interest in naturopathic 

399
00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,980
medicine. 
I just to give you an example, 

400
00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:28,540
we have a new Doctor in my 
clinic. 

401
00:19:28,940 --> 00:19:32,260
And her practice filled up 
faster than I've ever seen a 

402
00:19:32,260 --> 00:19:34,460
practice fill up. 
So if that tells us something 

403
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:37,500
about maybe what people in, at 
least in my community, think 

404
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:39,100
about our practice, that's one 
thing. 

405
00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:42,220
But I think it also says 
something about the state of 

406
00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:45,220
affairs, people's 
dissatisfaction with Western 

407
00:19:45,220 --> 00:19:48,540
medicine and their interest in 
naturopathic primary care. 

408
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:51,220
So yeah, I think interest is 
rising. 

409
00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:56,340
And I also think that the status
of health of a lot of Americans 

410
00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:59,490
of all these. 
Various type of problems, 

411
00:19:59,490 --> 00:20:02,930
autoimmunity, allergies, all the
things GI problems that bring 

412
00:20:02,930 --> 00:20:06,210
people into naturopathic doctors
offices, orthopedic and 

413
00:20:06,210 --> 00:20:08,930
musculoskeletal pain are getting
worse and worse, right? 

414
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:12,290
We have a we have an ailing 
population and they they need 

415
00:20:12,290 --> 00:20:14,730
help and they're coming to us, 
which I'm grateful for. 

416
00:20:15,290 --> 00:20:17,130
Yeah, that's what I kind of want
to dive into, cuz like if you 

417
00:20:17,130 --> 00:20:20,570
look at things on a population 
level, there's more information 

418
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:22,490
than ever. 
And it seems as though kind of 

419
00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:26,160
similar to generating wealth. 
Like the the wealthiest 1% keep 

420
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,520
getting richer and the poor keep
getting poor, those margins keep

421
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,880
separating. 
The same seems to be true when 

422
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,120
you look at individual health. 
The people that are attuned to 

423
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,400
digging in the research, you 
know, doing all the spinal 

424
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,720
hacking and just diving deeper 
and deeper seem to be getting 

425
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,960
healthier and healthier in the 
the average population, the 

426
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,600
general population seems to be 
on the decline. 

427
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,480
Do you, I mean is there any 
common denominators you're 

428
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,440
seeing there? 
Like, do you think it's 

429
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,640
predominantly lack of movement? 
Sitting at a desk looking at 

430
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,780
screens for dietary choices? 
Like what do you think the 

431
00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:56,620
driving force is? 
It's probably. 

432
00:20:56,620 --> 00:20:58,820
I mean it's definitely a 
summation of multiple things, 

433
00:20:58,820 --> 00:21:02,380
but like if you were to get the 
low hanging fruit first, what 

434
00:21:02,380 --> 00:21:04,300
would that be? 
Yeah, I get that. 

435
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:06,820
And before we even start picking
that low hanging fruit, I want 

436
00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:10,260
to just like applaud you for 
recognizing that that 1% thing I

437
00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:12,660
think is a really good insight 
by you because you're you're, 

438
00:21:12,980 --> 00:21:15,820
you know, and me too, I think 
are in that 1%, right, Like 

439
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:19,660
recognizing and understanding 
nuances of diet and even playing

440
00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:22,080
around with things. 
Like, you know, Genesis, like 

441
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,080
you're like you do and a lot of 
biohacker types do and 

442
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,680
experimenting with ourselves and
you know, optimizing. 

443
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,080
And I think it's easy for people
who are into that sort of stuff 

444
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,560
to feel like, you know, like 
that is the reality out there in

445
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,520
the in the world, right? 
Like we and have it our own 

446
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,040
little reality and we have our 
little, our little concentric 

447
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,360
circles around us. 
And a lot of times it's easy to 

448
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,600
believe that, like the world 
that we live in, that you or I 

449
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,720
are experiencing on the daily, 
is like the real world. 

450
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:52,190
And the reality is that it's 
simply not right. 

451
00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:54,630
Like that represents only a 
small fraction of the people who

452
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:57,070
are interested in things like 
regenerative agriculture and 

453
00:21:57,070 --> 00:22:00,270
eating a ketogenic diet or 
taking things like turmeric or 

454
00:22:00,270 --> 00:22:02,710
Boswellia. 
You know where the average 

455
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:08,550
American and you know is, is is 
drinking Mountain Dew and you 

456
00:22:08,550 --> 00:22:11,230
know eating double bacon 
cheeseburgers from fast food 

457
00:22:11,230 --> 00:22:15,070
restaurants and Donuts and you 
know putting 16 sugars in their 

458
00:22:15,070 --> 00:22:19,530
coffee and. 
And it's so far from what you or

459
00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:23,770
I kind of even consider normal, 
you know, like the fried Oreos 

460
00:22:23,850 --> 00:22:25,650
at the County Fair. 
I mean, people are eating those 

461
00:22:25,650 --> 00:22:30,010
every day and and and that's so,
So at a distance from the world 

462
00:22:30,010 --> 00:22:33,370
that you or I inhabit, but that 
sadly really is there is the 

463
00:22:33,370 --> 00:22:36,630
real world. 
And, yeah, increasing, you know,

464
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:38,990
prevalence of obesity, 
increasing prevalence of heart 

465
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:42,510
disease, increasing prevalence 
of diabetes, including when I 

466
00:22:42,510 --> 00:22:45,790
was in medical school, diabetes 
was a type 2 diabetes happened 

467
00:22:45,790 --> 00:22:46,910
to people that were 40 and 
older. 

468
00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:47,990
That's what it said in the 
textbooks. 

469
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:52,030
Now it happens to kids and. 
And so, yeah, it's a very sad 

470
00:22:52,030 --> 00:22:54,190
state of affairs. 
And then, yeah, absolutely, like

471
00:22:54,190 --> 00:22:56,830
we can go down the list of 
bullet points of the things that

472
00:22:56,830 --> 00:22:58,870
we're doing wrong that that 
caused that. 

473
00:22:58,870 --> 00:23:01,590
I'm happy to go there with you. 
Yeah, it was interesting, man. 

474
00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:04,830
We were at, I was speaking on a 
low carb cruise about a month 

475
00:23:04,830 --> 00:23:07,070
ago. 
And it's like a normal cruise 

476
00:23:07,070 --> 00:23:10,230
ship, but it's like a Petri dish
of the population because you've

477
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:14,150
got this, you know, very small 
group of I think 300 people in 

478
00:23:14,150 --> 00:23:16,710
the entire cruise ship that were
part of this low carb community 

479
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:18,350
that that are in the biohacking 
space. 

480
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:23,310
Everybody else is not like that.
It's like all you can eat buffet

481
00:23:23,310 --> 00:23:25,070
at all times. 
Everybody's waking up at 1:00 in

482
00:23:25,070 --> 00:23:27,150
the morning and getting ice 
cream and Donuts and pizza. 

483
00:23:28,190 --> 00:23:31,540
Everybody's overweight. 
Like, it's it's more an oddity 

484
00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:35,260
now to see somebody that looks 
healthy, much less fit, but just

485
00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:37,420
simply healthy. 
It's it's much more common to 

486
00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:42,380
see someone that is classified 
as morbidly obese walking out of

487
00:23:42,380 --> 00:23:45,060
a grocery store than someone 
that just seems to look like 

488
00:23:45,060 --> 00:23:46,580
they're in some degree of 
health. 

489
00:23:46,580 --> 00:23:49,180
And it's a sad reality. 
But I think it it's important 

490
00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:51,580
for us to, you know, be mindful 
of that reality. 

491
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:54,180
We can't become trapped in our 
own echo chamber and assume that

492
00:23:54,460 --> 00:23:57,660
the whole population is living 
on Cloud 9 and get everything in

493
00:23:57,660 --> 00:23:59,380
check. 
Absolutely. 

494
00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:00,500
Yeah. 
You're you're right. 

495
00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:04,860
And yeah a cruise ship is is 
absolutely a little microcosm 

496
00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:08,580
right of the of of the world and
that that little slice is pretty

497
00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:11,420
pretty eye opening if you're not
used to seeing what the typical 

498
00:24:11,420 --> 00:24:13,420
American looks like. 
And it's interesting, I was, I 

499
00:24:13,420 --> 00:24:18,180
was, I saw something recently 
which was a book of of the old 

500
00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:21,220
style and I'm putting this in 
quotes freak shows where they 

501
00:24:21,220 --> 00:24:23,500
had people with like you know 
medical abnormalities and 

502
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,500
whatnot that would put on 
display, you know this the the 

503
00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:28,700
original circus acts so, so to 
speak. 

504
00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:32,540
And often they would have people
that had, that had obesity, you 

505
00:24:32,540 --> 00:24:35,740
know, that were on display as 
like, you know, the £400 man, 

506
00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:38,060
that kind of thing. 
People would pay a ticket and, 

507
00:24:38,060 --> 00:24:40,020
you know, pay a nickel and come 
and come and see people on 

508
00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:43,020
display. 
And it was really interesting 

509
00:24:43,020 --> 00:24:46,980
because there was a picture of 
of the obese man that was on 

510
00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:50,540
display at one of these circuses
that just to me looked like a 

511
00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:53,900
normal person that I see, you 
know, every day around here. 

512
00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:56,580
And it was shocking to me that 
think back this book was, you 

513
00:24:56,580 --> 00:24:58,300
know, this was many, many 
decades ago. 

514
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,280
And it was like, wow, you know, 
we've come a long way And and 

515
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,120
that that's a sad state of 
affairs that we're in right now,

516
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,040
for sure. 
And it's sad because like, I 

517
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,360
don't, I don't ever want to put 
myself in this. 

518
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,880
You put myself on a pet store. 
Think of myself as an elitist. 

519
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,240
That's certainly not the case. 
But what's sad is that so many 

520
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,080
people in the population are 
well beyond that £400 mark and 

521
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,280
they just simply don't even 
leave their home. 

522
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,200
And people don't even see them 
in public. 

523
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,720
They don't see them going to the
grocery store. 

524
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,160
They don't see them in daytoday 
life. 

525
00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:30,260
They're just so overweight that 
they lack the selfconfidence or 

526
00:25:30,460 --> 00:25:32,500
physical capability that even 
leave their home. 

527
00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:36,340
And that demographic of people 
is growing quite rapidly as 

528
00:25:36,340 --> 00:25:37,740
well. 
So we, we most certainly are 

529
00:25:37,740 --> 00:25:40,620
living in a problematic time 
when it comes to general 

530
00:25:40,620 --> 00:25:42,260
populations health. 
So. 

531
00:25:42,260 --> 00:25:43,500
So what? 
What's the cure to this man, 

532
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,660
this is like a loaded question 
that nobody seems to have the 

533
00:25:45,660 --> 00:25:48,660
answer to. 
Yeah, what? 

534
00:25:48,660 --> 00:25:51,340
What do we do? 
It's a very challenging thing 

535
00:25:51,340 --> 00:25:54,940
and and and I think again, I'm 
gonna put 2 buckets out here in 

536
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:58,380
front of us and and and those 
two buckets are our personal 

537
00:25:58,380 --> 00:26:00,460
health, right, the care of the 
individual. 

538
00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:04,260
And then the other bucket is the
care of population, something 

539
00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:06,500
that, you know, medical 
researchers call public health, 

540
00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:08,020
right. 
There's private health, the, 

541
00:26:08,020 --> 00:26:11,060
the, the care of the individual 
one-on-one like what I would do 

542
00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:13,620
in my clinic or what you might 
do if you're coaching a client 

543
00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:16,100
one-on-one kind of health care. 
And then there's public health, 

544
00:26:16,100 --> 00:26:17,900
which is the taking care of 
entire populations. 

545
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:21,380
And it turns out that sometimes.
What is good for the individual 

546
00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:24,340
is not the same as what is good 
for the population and and vice 

547
00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:26,860
versa. 
So you know, to look at your 

548
00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:30,980
question, you know what are we 
going to do about the all the 

549
00:26:30,980 --> 00:26:34,300
problems that come with, you 
know, the chronic disease type 

550
00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:37,380
of problems, the heart disease, 
the obesity, the diabetes, the 

551
00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:39,620
increasing rates of cancer, the 
autoimmunity. 

552
00:26:39,860 --> 00:26:45,700
And I would argue that all of it
comes down to 1 central tenant, 

553
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,300
right and we can break it up, 
but that central tenant is that 

554
00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:52,400
we are living. 
Out of sync with our natural 

555
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,080
evolutionary biology, right? 
We are living in a world with 

556
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,280
which is full of calories, full 
of opportunities for inactivity 

557
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,800
with a body you know that's just
mismatched for that. 

558
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,360
And because of that mismatch, 
depending on where your own 

559
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:12,080
genetic or familial or other 
vulnerabilities are, you might 

560
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,280
start to express symptoms. 
And so you might start to pack 

561
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,400
on weight. 
You might start to have insulin.

562
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,280
Resistance. 
You might have cardiovascular 

563
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,960
problems, you might have 
orthopedic problems or 

564
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,840
arthritis. 
Your body's going to degenerate 

565
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,320
in some way or another. 
But I would say the single 

566
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,480
common denominator here is that 
we in many ways not just diet 

567
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,480
but also lifestyle and also 
stress and also movement and 

568
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,640
physical activity, are living 
out of sync with. 

569
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:37,630
The way our bodies are supposed 
to work. 

570
00:27:37,630 --> 00:27:40,910
And so what's the fix? 
Well, the fix is to get, I 

571
00:27:40,910 --> 00:27:44,790
guess, back into sync, right? 
To get back to to to restore 

572
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:47,830
balance. 
And there's a bunch of different

573
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:50,390
areas that we can discuss about 
how one might go about doing 

574
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:52,990
that. 
And what's sad to like, you 

575
00:27:52,990 --> 00:27:55,270
know, piggyback off of that 
statement, is that there's this 

576
00:27:55,310 --> 00:27:58,550
epigenetic effect that's taking 
place that is resulting in this 

577
00:27:59,030 --> 00:28:03,150
exponential decline in health. 
Like people's dietary decisions,

578
00:28:03,150 --> 00:28:06,730
lifestyle decisions now impact 
and they're you know following 

579
00:28:06,730 --> 00:28:08,810
generations like the next three 
or four generations. 

580
00:28:08,810 --> 00:28:11,810
Like the people that are born, 
you know that they're even they 

581
00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:15,010
have, they have less of a 
foundational starting point at 

582
00:28:15,010 --> 00:28:16,770
right at the gates. 
So it's just like this 

583
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:20,170
exponential decline that we're 
experiencing and I don't know 

584
00:28:20,170 --> 00:28:23,130
that people realize that. 
Like I think people just assume 

585
00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:24,770
if they're unhealthy, it's only 
affecting them. 

586
00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:26,530
A lot of people are ignorant to 
what they're doing is even 

587
00:28:26,530 --> 00:28:29,570
unhealth in the 1st place. 
But to know that it's negatively

588
00:28:29,570 --> 00:28:33,790
affecting downstream from them 
for the next 3 generations is is

589
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:38,310
pretty pretty eye opening. 
It's eye opening and hopefully 

590
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:42,030
if people can help, if we can 
help people understand that you 

591
00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:47,390
know that a baby girl already 
has eggs in her ovaries that 

592
00:28:47,390 --> 00:28:50,910
already carry those genetics and
then those epigenetic signals 

593
00:28:50,910 --> 00:28:53,190
which will then be passed on to 
her children. 

594
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:56,150
And so, yeah, absolutely the 
epigenetics, the conditions. 

595
00:28:56,590 --> 00:29:00,110
In in the parents not not just 
the mom but the dad as well you 

596
00:29:00,110 --> 00:29:03,030
know do have influences over 
their offspring and their 

597
00:29:03,030 --> 00:29:05,470
offsprings offspring and you 
know we've seen this in research

598
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:08,630
for many, many years. 
But to taking taking what we 

599
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:14,950
know and turning it into what we
do has been a challenge for well

600
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:17,350
for millennia. 
It's a it's a thing that humans 

601
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:19,870
have a notoriously difficult 
time with is turning what we 

602
00:29:19,870 --> 00:29:21,760
know into what we do. 
Totally. 

603
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,520
So let's try to turn this, this 
doom and gloom conversation 

604
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:25,920
around. 
Just. 

605
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,440
Yeah, right. 
We're getting pretty dark. 

606
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,280
Let's lighten it up, yeah? 
So if you were to be able to, 

607
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,440
you know, snap your fingers, 
flip the script, and have people

608
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,560
live more in line to their 
evolutionary past, more in line 

609
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,280
with what we are structured to 
do as a species, what would that

610
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,800
look like on the day today for 
the average individual? 

611
00:29:46,540 --> 00:29:49,060
That's a great question. 
And and and absolutely there is 

612
00:29:49,140 --> 00:29:52,180
room for light. 
There is room for hope and 

613
00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:54,180
optimism here. 
I really, I really do believe 

614
00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:56,060
that it's really impossible for 
me to walk through the world 

615
00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:57,300
just feeling doom and gloom like
that. 

616
00:29:57,300 --> 00:30:00,020
And I really think because I've 
seen it in my career, people can

617
00:30:00,260 --> 00:30:02,860
turn this around no matter what 
the problem is. 

618
00:30:02,860 --> 00:30:06,630
I've seen remarkable. 
Improvements across the board 

619
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:09,030
and everybody system and every 
type of disease. 

620
00:30:09,030 --> 00:30:11,190
Things that aren't really even 
supposed to be able to happen in

621
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:13,870
Western medicine when people pay
attention to these sorts of 

622
00:30:13,870 --> 00:30:15,550
things. 
So the first thing is what we're

623
00:30:15,550 --> 00:30:17,550
doing right now which is just 
open your eyes to it. 

624
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:21,110
Recognize that the problem 
exists that we are out of that 

625
00:30:21,150 --> 00:30:26,670
you we are out of sync and then 
identify what is the the first 

626
00:30:26,670 --> 00:30:29,270
step that we can take. 
My my job is to always just meet

627
00:30:29,270 --> 00:30:32,070
a patient where they are right. 
It's it's impossible to get 

628
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:34,550
somebody to make a dietary 
change if they're not. 

629
00:30:34,670 --> 00:30:36,950
Ready to make a dietary change 
if they don't want to, if 

630
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:39,310
they're unwilling or in other 
ways unable. 

631
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:42,990
So I'm always looking to find 
where can I move the needle the 

632
00:30:42,990 --> 00:30:46,990
most, and often it's a dietary 
change where I might it might be

633
00:30:46,990 --> 00:30:50,780
as simple as having them. 
Eliminate or decrease the amount

634
00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:53,220
of soda that they drink. 
You know, let's go from six a 

635
00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:55,500
day to two a day. 
Let's start there. 

636
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:57,100
For some people that's a change,
you know. 

637
00:30:57,100 --> 00:31:00,340
For others it might be something
a lot further down the line 

638
00:31:00,340 --> 00:31:04,020
where we're looking to improve 
the quality of the oils in their

639
00:31:04,020 --> 00:31:07,860
diet and minimizing the highly 
processed oils that they're 

640
00:31:07,980 --> 00:31:11,420
cooking with or eating in fast 
food and switching that out for 

641
00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:14,900
something that has, you know, 
more antiinflammatory benefits. 

642
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:18,300
So I'm meeting somebody where 
they are usually starting with 

643
00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:20,060
the. 
Diet or the diet always being a 

644
00:31:20,060 --> 00:31:22,740
cornerstone. 
And for me, the simplest way to 

645
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:26,500
describe the dietary approach 
that I advocate is what I call 

646
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:29,620
down to earth eating. 
You know, eating foods that come

647
00:31:29,620 --> 00:31:32,060
from the earth in a minimally 
processed form. 

648
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:34,860
And that could be from the farm,
that could be from the field, 

649
00:31:34,980 --> 00:31:39,020
that could be from the fishery. 
But foods that like are in as 

650
00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:42,620
close to the form that they were
in when they came up and out of 

651
00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:44,340
the earth. 
And that might look like the the

652
00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:46,380
perimeter of the grocery store 
for a lot of people. 

653
00:31:46,380 --> 00:31:47,900
That's one way to describe it as
well. 

654
00:31:48,350 --> 00:31:50,990
Yeah, it's interesting for me 
being the ketogenic space. 

655
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:54,110
You know there is certainly a 
push towards regenerative 

656
00:31:54,110 --> 00:31:56,750
agriculture, eating things that 
are as wholesome and you know, 

657
00:31:56,750 --> 00:31:59,590
nutrient dense and single origin
as possible. 

658
00:31:59,910 --> 00:32:03,310
And I know the ketogenic diet as
of late, you know the past three

659
00:32:03,310 --> 00:32:07,070
or four years has been in the 
limelight and that from a Google

660
00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:11,790
trend standpoint probably peaked
back in 2018, I would say 1819. 

661
00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:17,190
But I feel like when you take 
the wild popularity of it out of

662
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:20,470
the equation, just simply look 
at what it is at its core it 

663
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:22,950
seems to make a pretty good 
degree of common sense like 

664
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:27,150
you're eating wholesome single 
ingredient nutrient dent sources

665
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:30,230
that are ideally sustainably 
sourced in line with the 

666
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:34,310
environmental well-being. 
And people tend to function 

667
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:37,070
much, much better once you 
remove the noise from the diet 

668
00:32:37,070 --> 00:32:38,790
with all the processed hyper 
palatable foods. 

669
00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:42,710
So from a strict common sense 
and biological and nutrient 

670
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:45,750
availability standpoint affect 
the keygenic diet, you got a lot

671
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:48,590
of things going for it. 
I totally agree with you there. 

672
00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:51,590
You know, and and it's amazing 
to think and this is another 

673
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:54,630
area where I think we can be 
very much positive about the way

674
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:57,390
the human body works is, is the 
metabolic flexibility that 

675
00:32:57,390 --> 00:32:59,830
allows us, you know, our bodies 
are like hybrid cars. 

676
00:32:59,830 --> 00:33:02,670
And it's like it's unbelievable 
that we can burn glucose as a 

677
00:33:02,670 --> 00:33:05,990
fuel, we can burn ketones as a 
fuel and we have metabolic 

678
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:09,030
flexibility and that's built 
into the system, that 

679
00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:11,350
evolutionary system that I was 
referring to, you know, there 

680
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:14,150
were times. 
Back in the day, you know going 

681
00:33:14,150 --> 00:33:17,630
back many thousands of years 
where you know there was only 

682
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:20,950
the kill that the that the tribe
had to eat, you know and those 

683
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:22,950
were ketogenic times, no 
question about it. 

684
00:33:23,150 --> 00:33:27,590
Then there were times where the 
berries you know we're we're 

685
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:30,670
fruiting on the on the bushes 
around the camp and those were 

686
00:33:30,670 --> 00:33:34,110
times where the the diet was a 
little bit lighter in calories 

687
00:33:34,110 --> 00:33:35,670
and probably more carbohydrate 
heavy. 

688
00:33:35,670 --> 00:33:38,230
But that was very shortlived 
amount of time because berries 

689
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:41,750
don't bloom on bushes for very 
long and so when we tap in to 

690
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:44,310
nature in that. 
Way and think about, you know, 

691
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:49,470
our genetic past for most of us 
as hunter gatherers, even a 

692
00:33:49,470 --> 00:33:53,430
little bit of both of those, and
then stick with nature as our 

693
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:55,470
guide. 
It's hard to go wrong there. 

694
00:33:56,030 --> 00:33:58,270
Yeah, totally agree. 
And if you couple that with the 

695
00:33:58,270 --> 00:34:02,750
fact that people are just simply
much less active now they've 

696
00:34:02,750 --> 00:34:05,990
ever been before with the dawn 
of the Internets, people sitting

697
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:08,699
in an office all day long 
developing skeletal miss 

698
00:34:09,219 --> 00:34:11,820
misformations in that regard. 
Like there's just a lot of 

699
00:34:11,820 --> 00:34:14,940
things that are out of sync, as 
you were saying, with what 

700
00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:18,340
we've, you know, been 
genetically raised to do over a 

701
00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:21,820
Millennium. 
So I don't know how to correct 

702
00:34:21,820 --> 00:34:23,940
course there than just simply 
enlightening people in the 

703
00:34:23,940 --> 00:34:27,260
insignificance of eating right 
and moving more because it it 

704
00:34:27,260 --> 00:34:30,820
does go beyond that for sure. 
Like you can go down the rabbit 

705
00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:32,460
hole of all these different 
tangents and nuances. 

706
00:34:32,460 --> 00:34:34,500
But just simply eating right and
moving more I think would 

707
00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:38,080
correct course tremendously. 
I completely agree with you. 

708
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,560
Those are the two main things 
and you know a lot of people 

709
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,960
call them diet and lifestyle. 
But yes, eating right that 

710
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,520
minimally processed, avoiding 
those hyper palatable foods and 

711
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,800
keeping to a nutrient dense, you
know, the type of diet really 

712
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,000
goes a long way. 
And then yeah, moving more and 

713
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,120
and and really what it comes 
down to for a lot of people is 

714
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,760
just finding that sometimes it's
a metaphor, sometimes it's a 

715
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,120
story, something that relates to
them. 

716
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,680
And I think about it this way 
sometimes. 

717
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,840
I've educated a lot of people in
this way where if you think 

718
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,900
about the the what we. 
Might call the normal activity 

719
00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:11,860
pattern for a human would be 
that we would be on the move 

720
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:15,380
almost all the time right. 
Like really constantly active. 

721
00:35:15,380 --> 00:35:18,660
If you think of a of a of a 
person who's out in you know in 

722
00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:23,140
a in a more you know and I'm I'm
putting this in quotes but in a 

723
00:35:23,140 --> 00:35:25,780
more primitive kind of kind of 
living situation there's like 

724
00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:30,140
basically constant activity 
looking for shelter you know you

725
00:35:30,140 --> 00:35:33,780
know processing food hunting for
food. 

726
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:35,660
Humans are supposed to be 
constantly on the move. 

727
00:35:35,660 --> 00:35:38,100
And if you think about a. 
A wild animal, even something 

728
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:40,540
around your house, like a 
squirrel for example, and you 

729
00:35:40,540 --> 00:35:43,900
took that squirrel and you 
contained it into a cage, so it 

730
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:47,980
only did like less than 10% of 
its normal runnings around. 

731
00:35:48,020 --> 00:35:51,780
What do you think would happen? 
You know, any Organism that's 

732
00:35:51,780 --> 00:35:55,420
supposed to be constantly moving
around that gets put into a cage

733
00:35:55,420 --> 00:35:58,980
and restricted its activity to. 
To 10% of what it's normally 

734
00:35:58,980 --> 00:36:01,180
supposed to do. 
It's going to get sick and it's 

735
00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:02,820
going to die. 
That's what's going to happen 

736
00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:05,540
you know ultimately and that's 
basically what's happened to us.

737
00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:09,500
We have to move. 
Movement is imperative and it 

738
00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:13,100
you know and and we're just 
simply not doing it and you and 

739
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:17,220
I are doing it but like we said 
that the the the public is not 

740
00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:19,700
and and and hopefully we can 
inspire them to move a bit more.

741
00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:21,900
Yeah. 
And I feel like the the people 

742
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:26,500
are so fixated on weights and 
it's very easy to move less 

743
00:36:26,910 --> 00:36:30,150
maintain weight if you're not 
eating the right foods. 

744
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:33,310
I mean I said it to an extent a 
lot of people gain weight in 

745
00:36:33,310 --> 00:36:36,270
that context but you can 
certainly maintain your weight 

746
00:36:36,270 --> 00:36:38,790
by not moving as much but the 
composition of that weight is 

747
00:36:39,110 --> 00:36:41,310
going to change drastically. 
You're going to lose lean tissue

748
00:36:41,310 --> 00:36:43,830
especially as you age. 
Your metabolism is going to down

749
00:36:43,830 --> 00:36:45,870
regulate your hormone function 
is going to become out of whack 

750
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:50,310
like everything declines in a in
an environment of significantly 

751
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:53,590
reduced movement. 
And I see this all the time and 

752
00:36:53,590 --> 00:36:55,750
and older folks, I'm sure you do
as well with your practice, like

753
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:59,740
people coming in and you know, 
older, older men, older women 

754
00:36:59,740 --> 00:37:03,460
especially, they just simply 
cannot maintain lean tissue. 

755
00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:06,460
And that is becoming, I mean 
like when you start becoming 

756
00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:09,340
psychopenic and you lose lean 
tissue, like you just lose 

757
00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:12,820
honest the joy to live because 
you can't do the things you love

758
00:37:12,820 --> 00:37:14,820
doing. 
Absolutely, Yeah. 

759
00:37:14,820 --> 00:37:18,420
It's we call it frailty and it's
a it's extremely common and it's

760
00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:21,140
extremely dangerous, right. 
You know the and and it's 

761
00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:23,580
shocking for people to learn 
that. 

762
00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:29,580
Humans lose lean muscle mass at 
a rate of 1% per year, you know,

763
00:37:29,740 --> 00:37:31,740
and that's that's just normal, 
right? 

764
00:37:31,740 --> 00:37:34,500
Like after about age, 35 or 40 
or so, that number will just 

765
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:36,740
start to go down and down and 
down South you need to be. 

766
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,920
Actively pursuing, increasing 
that lean muscle mass, or even 

767
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,560
just to maintain stability. 
And when that number starts to 

768
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,320
go down, that lean muscle mass 
decreases, people get frail, and

769
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,320
then all hell breaks loose. 
Physiologically, it's all sorts 

770
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,520
of problems and it leads to, 
yeah, absolutely. 

771
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,000
Sickness, lack of joy and all 
sorts of medical problems will 

772
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,160
ensue, no question about it 
100%. 

773
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,760
So from like a classic 82 
analysis standpoint, you know, 

774
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,720
if people are eating rights, 
avoiding processed 

775
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:10,840
carbohydrates, sugars moving 
more, increasing their 

776
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,640
resistance in some form or 
fashion through ideally some 

777
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,040
form of progressive overload and
that's going to hedge against 

778
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,960
that decline over time. 
What are some, you know, cool 

779
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,040
biohacks so to speak, because 
everybody wants to know the the 

780
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,040
the quick fixes. 
Like what are some things that 

781
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,680
people can incorporate that are 
trying to get to the next level 

782
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,360
or just simply find some shorter
term success that hopefully gets

783
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,880
them motivated to do the long 
game approach to putting in the 

784
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,000
work. 
Like what are some things that 

785
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,760
people can incorporate and see a
pretty significant benefit from 

786
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,680
relatively quickly? 
For sure. 

787
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,840
That's it's a great question. 
I would add one other thing on 

788
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,800
there too before I get to the 
meat of that question, which is,

789
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,600
which is we are exposed to so 
many toxins, right? 

790
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,080
Like there's just so many 
chemical exposures not just in 

791
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,840
our diet, but in, you know, in 
our personal care product. 

792
00:38:59,220 --> 00:39:01,220
In our homes, in our workspaces 
and things like that. 

793
00:39:01,220 --> 00:39:02,660
And I think that's another big 
driver. 

794
00:39:02,660 --> 00:39:06,260
So when we relieve ourselves of 
those burdens and which is 

795
00:39:06,260 --> 00:39:09,500
difficult to do completely, but 
we try to clean up our homes, 

796
00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:12,140
clean up our personal care 
product routines and minimize 

797
00:39:12,140 --> 00:39:14,780
our exposures to toxin. 
So our liver, our kidneys, all 

798
00:39:14,780 --> 00:39:17,980
of our organs of detoxification 
can sort of maximally function. 

799
00:39:18,220 --> 00:39:22,260
That's another way to just like 
you know move the needle in your

800
00:39:22,260 --> 00:39:25,540
in your favor. 
And I think that kind of goes 

801
00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:29,140
along with, you know, diet and 
nutrition and physical. 

802
00:39:29,260 --> 00:39:32,580
Activity is like, you know, I 
would add a third pillar there, 

803
00:39:32,580 --> 00:39:35,780
which is that trying to minimize
toxic exposures to whatever 

804
00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:39,020
extent possible goes a long way 
as well in today's modern, 

805
00:39:39,180 --> 00:39:42,020
highly toxic world. 
I didn't even realize this until

806
00:39:42,020 --> 00:39:43,980
recently. 
Listen to a podcast maybe in a 

807
00:39:43,980 --> 00:39:46,220
Rogan podcast or something, but 
they're talking about 

808
00:39:46,220 --> 00:39:49,420
glyphosate. 
Now that's on almost all, you 

809
00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:53,220
know, monocropped, you know, 
crops these days, but wheat 

810
00:39:53,220 --> 00:39:57,380
specifically, they've been using
glyphosate to dry out the wheat 

811
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,640
prior to harvesting it. 
So like with a lot of the crops 

812
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,080
they'll they'll spray with life,
say preemptively that, you know,

813
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,800
make it resistant to certain 
pesticides or pests rather. 

814
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,440
But then they've been putting it
on the wheat directly prior to 

815
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,560
harvesting to dry it out So it 
doesn't become, you know, 

816
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,880
mildewy and rotten and whatnot. 
So like the amount of toxins 

817
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,760
that people are getting in their
diets just because of the the 

818
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,960
process and I don't think people
are realizing that. 

819
00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:24,500
People aren't realizing that. 
And it's shocking. 

820
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:26,500
It's absolutely so disturbing 
that they fit. 

821
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:30,140
You know, it was one thing when 
you're spraying weed killers on 

822
00:40:30,140 --> 00:40:33,780
the soil to discourage the 
growth of the weeds you don't 

823
00:40:33,780 --> 00:40:36,620
want and and then allow the corn
or the wheat to crop to come up 

824
00:40:36,620 --> 00:40:39,340
through that. 
But now because farmers figured 

825
00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:42,060
out that glyphosate works really
well to just dry out the wheat, 

826
00:40:42,260 --> 00:40:44,100
that means you can harvest it 
when the weather's dry. 

827
00:40:44,100 --> 00:40:46,780
It never gets rained on. 
And then you save your crops 

828
00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:50,060
from getting moldy and mildew 
and and this is this, this, this

829
00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:55,100
started maybe 15 years ago I 
think or so where now the, the 

830
00:40:55,260 --> 00:40:58,220
Roundup glyphosate is being 
sprayed directly on our food. 

831
00:40:58,220 --> 00:40:59,780
Right. 
And that's horrifying. 

832
00:41:00,020 --> 00:41:02,140
You know, that's just a 
horrifying proposition And 

833
00:41:02,140 --> 00:41:04,100
you're absolutely right that a 
lot of people don't know that. 

834
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:06,500
And so you know, to your 
question, what can people do? 

835
00:41:06,620 --> 00:41:08,820
Well, yeah, learn about stuff 
like that and don't eat 

836
00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:12,100
glyphosate ridden, real laden 
wheat in your diet. 

837
00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:14,940
That's that that's that's a huge
action step that people can 

838
00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:16,780
take. 
And then there are there are 

839
00:41:16,860 --> 00:41:18,740
there are many, many more we can
get into it. 

840
00:41:19,070 --> 00:41:21,630
What what are some things like I
know one of the things that are 

841
00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:27,470
really popular right now is this
push towards TRTHRT hormone 

842
00:41:27,470 --> 00:41:31,270
replacement therapy in those 
that are kind of cresting that 

843
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:33,950
40 year mark. 
What what's your take on that? 

844
00:41:33,950 --> 00:41:36,710
I know that's that's really 
where a lot of people's interest

845
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:39,310
is residing right now. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

846
00:41:39,310 --> 00:41:41,990
Certainly in in your community, 
in the bodybuilding community, 

847
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:44,430
in the biohacking community, 
people are looking to optimize 

848
00:41:45,070 --> 00:41:47,550
and and listen like there's a 
place for it, right? 

849
00:41:47,550 --> 00:41:52,310
Like there is, you know, I think
if people have, we have to, I'd 

850
00:41:52,310 --> 00:41:54,950
said earlier, people I like to 
meet patients where they are 

851
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:56,750
right. 
And so some people are looking 

852
00:41:56,750 --> 00:42:00,150
to maintain their normal health.
Some people are looking to 

853
00:42:00,150 --> 00:42:01,630
recover their health, which is 
ailing. 

854
00:42:01,910 --> 00:42:04,030
Other people are looking to 
optimize performance. 

855
00:42:04,030 --> 00:42:06,350
And those are all different 
goals and the treatment plans 

856
00:42:06,350 --> 00:42:08,530
that go with those, you know, 
might look different. 

857
00:42:08,530 --> 00:42:11,810
So in in the world of a person 
who's looking for optimal 

858
00:42:11,810 --> 00:42:14,730
performance, whether it is like 
athletic performance or 

859
00:42:14,730 --> 00:42:17,290
maintenance of athletic 
performance and decreasing 

860
00:42:17,290 --> 00:42:20,650
injury prevention or achieving a
certain physique for a 

861
00:42:20,650 --> 00:42:24,250
bodybuilding competition, etc. 
Yeah, that's a different set of 

862
00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:27,970
goals that a person who's 
looking to, you know, recover 

863
00:42:27,970 --> 00:42:30,250
from their inflammatory bowel 
disease or treat their 

864
00:42:30,250 --> 00:42:33,450
arthritis, right. 
And so for optimization 

865
00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:37,930
purposes, I think that there is 
absolutely a place for hormone 

866
00:42:38,170 --> 00:42:42,890
optimization in, in, in, in both
males and females and there's 

867
00:42:42,890 --> 00:42:45,690
all sorts of different things, 
peptides, amino acids is not my 

868
00:42:45,690 --> 00:42:49,730
expertise and and genuine 
bioidentical hormone 

869
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:52,850
replacements that are that are 
part of that picture for for 

870
00:42:52,850 --> 00:42:56,490
optimization. 
That said, for for people who 

871
00:42:56,490 --> 00:42:58,730
aren't looking for elite 
performance and they're just 

872
00:42:58,730 --> 00:43:03,220
looking for genuine good health 
kind of through the years, in 

873
00:43:03,220 --> 00:43:05,500
most cases I don't think it's 
necessary, right. 

874
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:08,340
Like the body does have a 
somewhat of a biological clock. 

875
00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:11,140
One would expect male 
testosterone levels to decline 

876
00:43:11,140 --> 00:43:13,060
over time. 
Obviously, female estrogen 

877
00:43:13,060 --> 00:43:14,740
progesterone levels decline over
time. 

878
00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:18,100
There's going to be experiences,
physical experiences that are 

879
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:20,940
associated with that, that 
aren't necessarily disease 

880
00:43:20,940 --> 00:43:22,020
states, right? 
They may. 

881
00:43:22,060 --> 00:43:27,190
They're like transitions and I 
think it's easy for us to to 

882
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:30,470
medicalize transitions. 
I I use an example a lot of 

883
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:33,670
times that is that's that's like
puberty, right? 

884
00:43:33,670 --> 00:43:38,630
Puberty is a transition, right? 
We go from one state of being to

885
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:41,350
another over this few year 
period and no one thinks that 

886
00:43:41,350 --> 00:43:44,710
it's a medical problem. 
And yet when when people go 

887
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:48,190
through menopause or when people
have a baby, you had that not 

888
00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:52,200
too long ago. 
These are all natural processes 

889
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,840
that are just part and parcel of
being a human, and we like to 

890
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,160
medicalize them. 
And so I don't think that we 

891
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,200
immediately need to jump to home
and replacement just because 

892
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:02,560
someone's going through a 
transition. 

893
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,200
But I'm not down on hormone 
replacement at all. 

894
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,320
If a person needs it, or if a 
person is looking to optimize 

895
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,200
their function in a certain way 
to perform at a certain level 

896
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,520
for, you know, for whatever it 
is that moves them so that 

897
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,610
that's where I'm at with it. 
Yeah, I really like the way you 

898
00:44:18,610 --> 00:44:21,530
stated that because I've had 
many guests on the podcast and 

899
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:23,130
I've, I've asked them that same 
question. 

900
00:44:23,570 --> 00:44:25,970
And you may have just given the 
best answer because I feel like 

901
00:44:25,970 --> 00:44:29,690
there is definitely this 
demographic of people that looks

902
00:44:29,690 --> 00:44:33,050
at that transitionary period and
doesn't want anything to do with

903
00:44:33,050 --> 00:44:36,970
it and tries everything that 
they can through exodus hormones

904
00:44:36,970 --> 00:44:39,530
to hedge against it. 
And I totally respect one's 

905
00:44:39,530 --> 00:44:41,810
desire to optimize. 
That's kind of. 

906
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,320
What my, you know, Forte is like
I I love pursuing human 

907
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,680
optimization. 
But at the same time you have to

908
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,800
realize that you are still in 
fact a human. 

909
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,520
And I think to try to, you know,
mitigate these transitionary 

910
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,960
periods in their entirety is 
subhuman to an extent. 

911
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,120
And at some point we have to 
recognize that we are going to 

912
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:03,880
all die. 
Like that's just reality of 

913
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,480
life. 
And you just need to embrace 

914
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,840
each of those phases as they 
come and not try to. 

915
00:45:10,370 --> 00:45:13,050
Hedge against the hedge against 
him to the point of you know 

916
00:45:13,050 --> 00:45:16,290
changing what you are 
biologically going to to turn 

917
00:45:16,290 --> 00:45:19,130
into over time. 
And I think that is a a 

918
00:45:19,650 --> 00:45:22,250
tightrope that we haven't quite 
figured out because to some 

919
00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:25,170
extent this hormone replacement 
is is kind of Wild West like 

920
00:45:25,170 --> 00:45:28,250
anybody can walk into a clinic 
these days, get a test done and 

921
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:32,290
get prescribed XY or Z hormone. 
But there's not been a whole lot

922
00:45:32,290 --> 00:45:34,850
of research to the downstream 
effects of that over ample 

923
00:45:34,850 --> 00:45:37,920
period of time. 
Yes, I totally agree with you. 

924
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,760
I think, yeah, I don't think 
people should be trying to fight

925
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,360
getting older, right. 
I don't think. 

926
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,720
And I think maybe I can sum it 
up by saying that aging is not a

927
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,000
disease. 
You know, it's, it's, it's it's 

928
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,440
a natural biological process. 
It's supposed to happen. 

929
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,920
You know, it's just it's it's 
going to happen to all of us 

930
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,600
with the inevitable death at the
end, whenever that may come. 

931
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,760
And I what I think at least from
a from a medical perspective and

932
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,960
again this is different from the
perspective of elite athletic 

933
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,960
performance, those are two very 
different things. 

934
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,200
And actually you know what, I 
want to even go back for a 

935
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,400
second and say that like in the 
sports medicine world there was 

936
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,080
a early in the early parts of my
career, I thought that being a 

937
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,680
sports medicine doctor, you know
working for a professional team 

938
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,120
would be would be a great kind 
of career. 

939
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,760
And then I quickly realized that
professional doctors for 

940
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,680
professional athletes, the goal 
is not the maintenance of 

941
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,640
longterm health, The goal is 
performance, right. 

942
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,090
Get them back out on the field. 
Even if it means injecting that 

943
00:46:31,090 --> 00:46:33,770
joint with steroids, even if it 
means taping up that ankle and 

944
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:36,050
putting in the Mac out there and
that's those are two very 

945
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:38,090
different things. 
I'm not down on it, but like, 

946
00:46:38,210 --> 00:46:41,010
when you tape up that ankle 
that's not ready to go back and 

947
00:46:41,010 --> 00:46:44,330
play, that ankle is going to is 
going to pay you back later and 

948
00:46:44,330 --> 00:46:47,330
it's going to be ugly, and that 
is just bound to happen. 

949
00:46:47,330 --> 00:46:51,490
And so the care of the elite 
performer at the peak of their 

950
00:46:51,490 --> 00:46:56,090
performance career is one thing.
And the care of a more typical 

951
00:46:56,330 --> 00:47:00,930
kind of general human who's just
looking to live a long, healthy,

952
00:47:00,930 --> 00:47:04,170
hopefully productive life and 
then die quickly at the end is 

953
00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:07,410
something very different. 
And I'm much more interested in 

954
00:47:07,410 --> 00:47:09,610
the latter, it turns out. 
Yeah, no, I'm as well. 

955
00:47:09,610 --> 00:47:13,450
I don't think human optimization
performance has to be. 

956
00:47:14,090 --> 00:47:17,170
Exclusive to longevity, but 
there is certainly a tipping 

957
00:47:17,170 --> 00:47:21,610
point at which you know 
performing optimally by way of 

958
00:47:22,090 --> 00:47:25,970
measuring, you know the the most
weight lifted or the leanest you

959
00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:29,210
can get, or you know the the 
most basketball games played in 

960
00:47:29,210 --> 00:47:31,130
the season. 
Like there. 

961
00:47:31,130 --> 00:47:33,010
There's a point which you can 
push that to the point where 

962
00:47:33,010 --> 00:47:37,090
it's not going to be beneficial 
to overall longterm health and I

963
00:47:37,090 --> 00:47:39,810
feel like. 
That is not optimal like when 

964
00:47:39,810 --> 00:47:41,930
you when you define what optimal
is. 

965
00:47:41,970 --> 00:47:43,250
I would not define that as 
optimal. 

966
00:47:43,250 --> 00:47:47,890
Like I I think doing the best 
you can as naturally as you can,

967
00:47:47,890 --> 00:47:50,970
it's most in line with what your
species, what you're capable of 

968
00:47:50,970 --> 00:47:55,050
as a species in a way that is 
also conducive to longterm 

969
00:47:55,050 --> 00:47:57,450
health and well-being. 
Is, is the goal, at least for 

970
00:47:57,450 --> 00:47:58,710
me. 
Yeah. 

971
00:47:58,710 --> 00:48:00,310
Well, we're cut from the same 
cloth there, too. 

972
00:48:00,310 --> 00:48:03,990
And, you know, and we all love, 
I think, to watch people who are

973
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:06,470
outliers, right. 
The biggest bodybuilders, the 

974
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:09,910
fastest runners, the highest 
jumpers, the fastest swimmers, 

975
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:11,910
the people who can do these 
crazy long Iron Man's. 

976
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:14,710
But I think and and those are 
those are feats of human 

977
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:17,070
performance and they're they're 
remarkable and miraculous. 

978
00:48:17,070 --> 00:48:19,270
And I love to watch it. 
I love to watch people serve 

979
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:21,470
huge waves and skateboard down 
huge hills. 

980
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:24,550
But no one's saying that that's 
like a good idea for the general

981
00:48:24,550 --> 00:48:27,430
population, certainly not me. 
It's fun to watch and it's like 

982
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:30,070
a, you know, it's amazing to see
people push those absolute 

983
00:48:30,070 --> 00:48:35,030
limits, but to suggest that that
is consistent with, like, long 

984
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:37,230
term optimal health. 
Absolutely not. 

985
00:48:37,950 --> 00:48:41,750
And so again, meet a patient 
where they are and decide on 

986
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:46,190
goals based on where they are 
and where they want to go is how

987
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:48,470
I approach health and medicine. 
I like it. 

988
00:48:48,550 --> 00:48:50,390
I like it a lot. 
What's your take on a 

989
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:53,650
chiropractic work? 
Chiropractic work. 

990
00:48:53,650 --> 00:49:00,290
So I do a lot of soft tissue and
Bony manipulation and I I think 

991
00:49:00,290 --> 00:49:04,730
it absolutely has its place. 
I think that it becomes like 

992
00:49:04,730 --> 00:49:08,050
many fields, both Western and 
alternative medicine, it can 

993
00:49:08,050 --> 00:49:11,210
become, people can become very 
dogmatic about it. 

994
00:49:11,210 --> 00:49:13,730
There's many people in that 
field who think that the right 

995
00:49:13,730 --> 00:49:16,050
chiropractic adjustment, you 
know, can fix anything. 

996
00:49:16,050 --> 00:49:18,570
You know, and I've I've heard 
stories of people being told by 

997
00:49:18,570 --> 00:49:21,690
chiropractors that they adjust 
the right area at the you know, 

998
00:49:21,690 --> 00:49:24,900
that they can improve blood 
sugar control or improve blood 

999
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:26,780
pressure. 
And you know all sorts of other 

1000
00:49:27,020 --> 00:49:29,020
things where. 
And that's an example of I think

1001
00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:33,100
a field that has its utility 
that certainly has its place in 

1002
00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:37,780
medicine being overdeveloped or 
overused or over relied upon for

1003
00:49:37,780 --> 00:49:41,470
other problems that that are 
that it's less appropriate for. 

1004
00:49:41,470 --> 00:49:44,710
So yeah, I think Bony 
adjustments have their their 

1005
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:46,390
role. 
I think they're they can be very

1006
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:50,510
dramatic and you know and and 
provide an experience to a 

1007
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:52,830
patient that really feels like 
something kind of dramatic 

1008
00:49:52,830 --> 00:49:57,910
happened when often the real 
work is in the soft tissues 

1009
00:49:57,910 --> 00:50:00,110
surrounding where that Bony 
adjustment happened. 

1010
00:50:00,350 --> 00:50:03,030
And so I think it's it's, it's 
got its place, it's got a 

1011
00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:07,630
limited scope and and it's 
certainly a useful therapy in 

1012
00:50:07,630 --> 00:50:10,820
certain situations. 
And your Forte is most in the 

1013
00:50:10,820 --> 00:50:11,860
soft tissue. 
You said, right. 

1014
00:50:12,820 --> 00:50:14,900
You know, like I say, I do Bony 
adjustments. 

1015
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:17,420
So when a person comes in to see
knee who has musculoskeletal 

1016
00:50:17,420 --> 00:50:20,100
pain, let's just say pain in 
their knee, they're gonna get 

1017
00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:23,060
the whole gamut, right? 
They're gonna hear that. 

1018
00:50:23,060 --> 00:50:24,540
I want them to improve their 
nutrition. 

1019
00:50:24,540 --> 00:50:27,030
They're gonna hear that. 
I want them to improve their 

1020
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:29,830
mobility, their stretching and 
their strengthening of the 

1021
00:50:29,830 --> 00:50:32,990
muscles that act upon the knee. 
They're going to hear about 

1022
00:50:33,350 --> 00:50:36,910
herbal and nutritional supports 
for in, you know, inflammatory 

1023
00:50:36,910 --> 00:50:39,390
changes and muscle tension and 
fibrosis in that knee. 

1024
00:50:39,630 --> 00:50:43,030
They're going to get somebody 
work, right, handson therapy, 

1025
00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:46,950
trying to liberate or loosen, 
you know, trigger points in or 

1026
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:49,190
around the area. 
They might get a Bony 

1027
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:52,030
adjustment, you know, in their 
lumbar spine or in their hip or 

1028
00:50:52,030 --> 00:50:54,630
their sacroiliac joint. 
So yeah, as a as a naturopathic 

1029
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:58,930
Dr. I'm looking at that person 
that that that knee, and I'm 

1030
00:50:58,930 --> 00:51:01,810
looking below it at the foot and
seeing what the mechanics of the

1031
00:51:01,810 --> 00:51:03,490
foot are. 
I'm looking above it at the hip 

1032
00:51:03,490 --> 00:51:07,010
and the spine, and then I'm 
looking at the human in whom 

1033
00:51:07,010 --> 00:51:09,970
that knee resides and trying to 
put a treatment plant together. 

1034
00:51:10,130 --> 00:51:12,450
That just makes sense for that 
person and what their goals are.

1035
00:51:12,690 --> 00:51:15,170
So yeah, they're gonna get the 
Full Monty for me, man. 

1036
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:18,630
Like and that's that's it's all 
symbiotic and H you can't like 

1037
00:51:18,670 --> 00:51:21,910
look at any one acute thing, OK,
this is the standalone prom. 

1038
00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:23,910
You got to fix this one thing 
and everything else gets better.

1039
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:26,350
I think taking a holistic 
approach is absolutely the way 

1040
00:51:26,350 --> 00:51:29,420
to go. 
I sometimes say to that, like I,

1041
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:32,060
you know, to this day, I've been
practicing for close 25 years. 

1042
00:51:32,060 --> 00:51:34,980
Like I've never seen a knee come
into my office. 

1043
00:51:35,020 --> 00:51:37,900
I've never seen a heart or a 
lung or a colon come into my 

1044
00:51:37,900 --> 00:51:40,460
office so far. 
It's always been inside of a 

1045
00:51:40,460 --> 00:51:43,500
person, you know. 
And so that person is who gets 

1046
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:46,340
treated, Yeah, that joint, not 
that body part. 

1047
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:49,060
Speaking of knee, knee health, 
man, I've been doing that. 

1048
00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:50,820
You're probably familiar with 
it. 

1049
00:51:50,820 --> 00:51:53,140
Ben Patrick's ATG program. 
You probably. 

1050
00:51:53,140 --> 00:51:55,620
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1051
00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:55,180
Yeah. 
Mr. Knees over Toes, Yeah. 

1052
00:51:55,620 --> 00:51:58,540
So I've been doing that for the 
past 13 weeks or so and that's 

1053
00:51:58,540 --> 00:51:59,820
made it. 
Yeah, you walking backwards. 

1054
00:51:59,820 --> 00:52:01,340
You pulling a sled backwards 
these days? 

1055
00:52:01,380 --> 00:52:04,460
Yeah, yeah, I'm doing that and 
I'm just get like a basic, you 

1056
00:52:04,460 --> 00:52:07,620
know, 15 minute, 20 minute 
workout, you know, prior to the 

1057
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:09,780
actual workout, just doing knee 
mobility stuff. 

1058
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:14,440
And prior to that I never did 
any type of mobility stretching.

1059
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,320
I just that was never my thing 
and I've never really needed to.

1060
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,280
But as of late, man, I'm getting
old, I don't know 31 years old. 

1061
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,760
They I just noticed more knee 
pain especially like doing 

1062
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,200
squats and things like that. 
And I started doing, you know, 

1063
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,720
that mobility work and that has 
literally made a dramatic effect

1064
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,000
in a relatively short period of 
time. 

1065
00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:34,690
It's awesome. 
Yeah. 

1066
00:52:34,690 --> 00:52:36,570
Yeah. 
He's very popular for a reason. 

1067
00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:41,450
And I like, I like how he 
approaches, you know, it's so 

1068
00:52:41,450 --> 00:52:43,490
contrarian, right. 
Like the whole knees over toes 

1069
00:52:43,490 --> 00:52:43,930
thing. 
Right. 

1070
00:52:43,930 --> 00:52:46,770
Was just like that was like a 
directive that we got, you know,

1071
00:52:46,770 --> 00:52:50,370
from that was coming down from 
not unclear sources, just never 

1072
00:52:50,370 --> 00:52:52,530
knees over toes, don't ever have
your knees over toes. 

1073
00:52:52,530 --> 00:52:55,210
And I love how he just flipped 
that whole thing on its head and

1074
00:52:55,210 --> 00:52:57,610
did you know, some remarkable 
work on himself and has educated

1075
00:52:57,610 --> 00:53:01,800
a lot of people about, you know,
bio mechanics and and and how 

1076
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,640
our bodies are supposed to work.
It's it's and here we are again,

1077
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,360
right, talking about this 
mismatch idea, even even think 

1078
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:08,960
about it and he talks something 
about this too. 

1079
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,240
I know he's a big fan of like 
barefoot shoe technology, 

1080
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:16,920
letting your feet splay out. 
And again, it goes back to that 

1081
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,280
mismatch. 
We walk around all day on hard, 

1082
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,080
flat surfaces, right? 
Whether it's the flooring in our

1083
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,750
house, the pavement outside and 
our bodies, including our feet 

1084
00:53:26,750 --> 00:53:29,550
and our knees, and the whole 
biomechanical chain are designed

1085
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:33,030
to move around on soft and 
uneven surfaces. 

1086
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:36,630
And so if you walk around on 
hard flat ground, especially if 

1087
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:39,350
you do things like play 
basketball or lift heavy stuff 

1088
00:53:39,590 --> 00:53:42,110
on hard flat ground all the 
time, you're going to pay for 

1089
00:53:42,110 --> 00:53:43,750
that. 
That's not the way your body was

1090
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:45,590
designed to work. 
It's supposed to work on soft 

1091
00:53:45,590 --> 00:53:48,910
and uneven terrain, like you 
find out in nature, and if you 

1092
00:53:48,910 --> 00:53:53,160
do that for a long enough time, 
you're going to get bit, which 

1093
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,000
is what happened to him. 
It's probably what was happening

1094
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,120
to your knees as well. 
So you know, it's good to flip 

1095
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:58,400
that script. 
Yeah. 

1096
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,040
I don't have any desire to be a 
country and for the sake of 

1097
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,960
being a country. 
But I've come to a point in my 

1098
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,400
life where I'm almost like 
anything that I hear from the 

1099
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,800
top down, I pretty much just do 
the opposite of and. 

1100
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,800
And it pays dividends. 
Yeah. 

1101
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,240
Yeah, I know. 
Yes, skepticism is becoming the 

1102
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:17,400
new the new trend, isn't it. 
Yeah, for sure. 

1103
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,720
With with your expertise in soft
tissue mobility, all that, what 

1104
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:24,520
what's your take on? 
It's like I've got the like the 

1105
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,200
Theragun for instance, that's 
super popular, the Hyper Volt 

1106
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,280
and Theragun, like everybody's 
got one of those it seems. 

1107
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,280
What's your take on those 
compression boots that is I 

1108
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,200
believe are designed to 
stimulate more blood flow? 

1109
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,360
I think they just simply 
constrict and then not really 

1110
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:39,880
honestly. 
Sure. 

1111
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,440
The mechanics have never used 
them before, but have you played

1112
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,790
around with those much? 
Yep, played around with those. 

1113
00:54:44,790 --> 00:54:48,990
And there there is data about 
those for recovery from injury. 

1114
00:54:48,990 --> 00:54:51,350
And really what what you're 
getting there is you're getting 

1115
00:54:52,070 --> 00:54:53,430
most of the ones. 
And I think that you're talking 

1116
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:56,190
about these big long boots that 
in many cases go all the way up 

1117
00:54:56,190 --> 00:54:59,230
to the thigh that put some 
pressure on the leg, you know, 

1118
00:54:59,230 --> 00:55:01,590
compressing it completely and 
then relaxing, compressing and 

1119
00:55:01,590 --> 00:55:02,870
relaxing. 
And what's happening there 

1120
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:06,310
basically is the stimulation, 
not just a blood flow and venous

1121
00:55:06,310 --> 00:55:08,350
return, but also of lymphatic 
flow. 

1122
00:55:08,350 --> 00:55:10,950
So like a little Physiology 
lesson for everybody out there 

1123
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:13,230
is that, like your heart pumps 
the blood through arteries, 

1124
00:55:13,230 --> 00:55:14,670
right? 
And it goes all the way all 

1125
00:55:14,670 --> 00:55:16,670
through your body, up to your 
brain, down to your tips of your

1126
00:55:16,670 --> 00:55:20,070
toes, and then it comes back. 
You know, those arteries get 

1127
00:55:20,070 --> 00:55:23,230
progressively smaller and become
capillaries, at which point the 

1128
00:55:23,230 --> 00:55:26,310
fluid in the blood, the liquid 
portion, the serum, leaks out of

1129
00:55:26,310 --> 00:55:27,750
the capillaries through little 
windows. 

1130
00:55:28,110 --> 00:55:31,430
They're called fenestrated 
capillaries, and then gets taken

1131
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:35,270
back up through the lymphatic 
channels and the tiny little 

1132
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:39,970
venules on net, which are now 
under very low pressure to bring

1133
00:55:39,970 --> 00:55:42,930
that blood and the serum within 
it back up to your heart. 

1134
00:55:43,090 --> 00:55:45,210
And it's kind of an amazing 
thing to think about, right? 

1135
00:55:45,210 --> 00:55:48,410
Like if there's blood that gets 
pumped down to your foot and 

1136
00:55:48,410 --> 00:55:51,370
you're standing up and you're, 
you know, however tall you are, 

1137
00:55:51,570 --> 00:55:54,250
that blood in your foot needs to
get all the way back up to your 

1138
00:55:54,250 --> 00:55:56,130
heart. 
And and draining something 

1139
00:55:56,170 --> 00:55:59,330
upstream like that is really 
hard especially when there's no 

1140
00:55:59,330 --> 00:56:02,870
pressure in the system. 
And So what happens is your 

1141
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:06,310
veins and your lymphatic 
channels have valves, they're 

1142
00:56:06,310 --> 00:56:10,710
one way valves and those valves 
allow the blood and and 

1143
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:14,350
lymphatic fluid to go up and 
then stop at the valve because 

1144
00:56:14,350 --> 00:56:18,670
the valve only allows the the 
liquids to go upward and the 

1145
00:56:18,670 --> 00:56:23,560
force, the pressure is generated
by muscle activity. 

1146
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,360
So that's why they want you to 
move your feet and move your 

1147
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,600
legs on an airplane and flex 
your calves and move your body 

1148
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,200
around so that those little 
muscular movements squeeze those

1149
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,440
channels, those veins and those 
lymphatic channels, allowing the

1150
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,000
blood to get pushed back upwards
towards your heart, going 

1151
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,200
through the valve, stopping at 
the valve, then going through 

1152
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:42,760
the next one and the next one 
and so on. 

1153
00:56:43,140 --> 00:56:47,340
And those compression boots that
you're talking about basically 

1154
00:56:47,500 --> 00:56:50,820
do that externally, right, like 
school, compress and then relax,

1155
00:56:50,820 --> 00:56:55,300
compress and relax and promote 
both Venus and lymphatic 

1156
00:56:55,300 --> 00:56:57,100
circulation and that improves 
recovery. 

1157
00:56:57,540 --> 00:56:59,940
Interesting because this is 
totally a selfless question on 

1158
00:56:59,940 --> 00:57:03,220
my part because I've got several
bodybuilding competitions coming

1159
00:57:03,220 --> 00:57:06,700
up in the in the in the 
following months here, and I've 

1160
00:57:06,700 --> 00:57:08,580
got a lot of traveling for those
events. 

1161
00:57:08,580 --> 00:57:11,500
I've also got like a 50 mile 
March a week prior to. 

1162
00:57:11,970 --> 00:57:15,250
My first competition. 
And as it's true with many 

1163
00:57:15,250 --> 00:57:17,890
bodybuilders, like if you're 
traveling, you, you tend to hold

1164
00:57:17,890 --> 00:57:20,330
a lot of fluid around your 
ankles. 

1165
00:57:20,650 --> 00:57:22,730
You just have some edema if 
you're traveling for a show. 

1166
00:57:22,730 --> 00:57:26,370
That's why people typically get 
to the venue well in advance, 

1167
00:57:26,370 --> 00:57:28,050
allow their body to kind of 
stabilize. 

1168
00:57:28,050 --> 00:57:29,570
You got to make sure 
electrolytes are in check. 

1169
00:57:29,570 --> 00:57:30,850
Everything's in equilibrium 
there. 

1170
00:57:31,090 --> 00:57:33,970
But I thought about investing in
a pair of these compression 

1171
00:57:33,970 --> 00:57:36,930
boots to just aid in that 
recovery in the days leading it 

1172
00:57:36,930 --> 00:57:40,130
to the show, to make sure that 
I'm not holding the excess fluid

1173
00:57:40,130 --> 00:57:43,170
in my lower limbs. 
Yeah, I would support it. 

1174
00:57:43,170 --> 00:57:45,650
You know, you could probably do 
something similar even just with

1175
00:57:45,650 --> 00:57:49,770
compression stockings, you know,
that's a sort of a lower tech 

1176
00:57:50,290 --> 00:57:52,330
version of that. 
And the reason why that sort of 

1177
00:57:52,330 --> 00:57:55,570
stuff works, by the way, is that
those channels are situated 

1178
00:57:55,570 --> 00:57:57,010
throughout your lower 
extremities. 

1179
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,960
And the superficial ones, the 
ones that are closer to the 

1180
00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:02,680
surface, tend to be the ones 
that get compromised more 

1181
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:04,760
easily. 
And the deeper channels that are

1182
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,720
deep within the structure of 
your of your limbs, they 

1183
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,360
maintain their integrity a 
little bit better. 

1184
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,720
And that's why when a person has
edema, whether it's for 

1185
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,360
traveling reasons or otherwise, 
when you compress the leg even 

1186
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,840
than just the calf or the foot 
with a compression sock, that 

1187
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,120
forces that fluid into those 
deeper channels which tend to be

1188
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,760
that you know, hold their 
integrity in the the valve. 

1189
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,640
Other structure stays a little 
bit more intact and so you can 

1190
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,400
just push the fluid and deep 
into the leg and then let those 

1191
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:32,840
deeper channels carry it back 
upwards. 

1192
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,080
That might work as well. 
That'll be an interesting thing 

1193
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,040
to see how that goes for you. 
I would imagine that's probably 

1194
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,000
more effective than just simply 
elevating the leg, right? 

1195
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,360
Yeah. 
I mean, it's it's it when when a

1196
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:46,720
person has bad edema for, which 
can happen for all kinds of 

1197
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,440
reasons, a combination of, you 
know, all elevating the legs, 

1198
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,440
just gravity, right? 
All that's gonna happen is that 

1199
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,200
fluid just gonna drip back down,
you know, because it'll just be 

1200
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,440
gravity guided and compression 
socks definitely level up the 

1201
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,880
the the, the power of gravity. 
Absolutely. 

1202
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:04,480
Yeah. 
They're they're really a core 

1203
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,880
part of treatment plans for 
people with vascular disorders 

1204
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,080
that that that yield edema in 
the lower extremity. 

1205
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:12,640
Very interesting. 
All right. 

1206
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,120
So that's a little bit of time 
to get here. 

1207
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,720
I'd love to kind of just pick 
your brain as to what it is that

1208
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,520
you're most excited about within
your field of study or just 

1209
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,320
outside of your field of study. 
Like what are you doubling down 

1210
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:23,800
on at the moment? 
What's got you excited? 

1211
00:59:24,860 --> 00:59:28,820
Well one of the main things I'm 
really focused on right now is 

1212
00:59:28,820 --> 00:59:33,220
is in the management of 
musculoskeletal pain through 

1213
00:59:33,220 --> 00:59:37,500
herbal and nutritional therapies
and and and what I'm the reason 

1214
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:39,580
why I'm excited about that is 
because I've been doing a lot of

1215
00:59:39,580 --> 00:59:41,540
this lately. 
You know I'm I'm the the 

1216
00:59:41,540 --> 00:59:43,540
cofounder and the medical 
director of a company called Up 

1217
00:59:43,540 --> 00:59:44,500
Wellness. 
We make a whole bunch of 

1218
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:46,580
different nutritional 
supplements and and there's one 

1219
00:59:46,580 --> 00:59:49,260
in particular that I've, you 
know, I've, I've, I've been in 

1220
00:59:49,260 --> 00:59:51,900
this game for a long time now 
but I made this product called 

1221
00:59:51,900 --> 00:59:54,780
Golden Revived Plus that's 
marketing towards people who 

1222
00:59:54,780 --> 00:59:58,020
have musculoskeletal pain. 
And I'm just hearing and I've 

1223
00:59:58,020 --> 01:00:00,500
sold, I don't want to brag here 
but the hundreds of thousands of

1224
01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:03,420
bottles of this stuff over the 
last bunch of years and and 

1225
01:00:03,420 --> 01:00:04,780
that's great and I'm grateful 
for that. 

1226
01:00:04,980 --> 01:00:09,500
But what I'm seeing and hearing 
from customers is that they are.

1227
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,240
Not getting surgeries that they 
were scheduled for. 

1228
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,320
They're avoiding, you know, 
joint injections. 

1229
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,600
They are, you know, improving in
with conditions that their 

1230
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,200
orthopedist and their other 
doctors thought couldn't 

1231
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,960
improve. 
And so leaning into, you know, 

1232
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,440
why is that happening? 
It's really, it's gratifying to 

1233
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,860
kind of create, you know, that 
kind of an effect in a person 

1234
01:00:33,540 --> 01:00:38,020
and then doubling down on that 
by providing information and, 

1235
01:00:38,180 --> 01:00:41,460
you know, and an additional 
content for people who are in 

1236
01:00:41,460 --> 01:00:44,820
that situation is really what's 
got me all riled up right now. 

1237
01:00:45,100 --> 01:00:47,540
So from a supplemental 
standpoint, what what is it 

1238
01:00:47,540 --> 01:00:51,300
that's in that blend that that 
is the active comp and like how 

1239
01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:54,540
is that working mechanistically.
So I'll break it down for you 

1240
01:00:54,540 --> 01:00:56,860
and I'll be as quick as I can. 
I know we're running out of 

1241
01:00:56,860 --> 01:01:01,720
time, but like, the idea is that
when person has musculoskeletal 

1242
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,000
pain, whether it's a knee, 
shoulder, hip, wherever their 

1243
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,480
back or neck, very often they'll
be led to believe that whatever 

1244
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,640
they saw on the MRI, the disc 
herniation, the meniscus tear. 

1245
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,440
Especially in chronic cases, the
bulging disc is responsible for 

1246
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,120
their pain. 
And in many cases, and there's a

1247
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,520
lot of research about this, 
that's just simply not true. 

1248
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,880
There are other factors, and 
those main other factors that 

1249
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,200
lead so many people in the the 
the pain that they experience. 

1250
01:01:26,450 --> 01:01:31,850
Our #1 excessive inflammation, 
#2 muscular tension and #3 

1251
01:01:31,850 --> 01:01:34,530
fibrosis, which is the 
accumulation of scar tissue 

1252
01:01:34,610 --> 01:01:37,130
either on a microscopic or a 
larger scale. 

1253
01:01:37,710 --> 01:01:40,550
And those 3 problems, 
inflammation or excessive 

1254
01:01:40,550 --> 01:01:45,590
inflammation, muscular tension 
and fibrosis are are are the 

1255
01:01:45,590 --> 01:01:47,750
targets. 
And so how do I address those 

1256
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:49,830
targets? 
I'll give you kind of a quick 

1257
01:01:49,830 --> 01:01:53,950
list #1 Curcumin high potency 
Turmeric extract. 

1258
01:01:53,950 --> 01:01:57,470
I use something called BCM 95 
curcumin, which is a really high

1259
01:01:57,470 --> 01:02:00,710
potency. 
Turmeric extract #2, and that's 

1260
01:02:00,710 --> 01:02:05,140
for the inflammation piece is is
buzzwellia which is frankincense

1261
01:02:05,140 --> 01:02:08,900
and herbal medicine. 
The resin from a tree that also 

1262
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:12,340
is a powerful anti-inflammatory 
and has some properties that 

1263
01:02:12,340 --> 01:02:16,100
allow it to help almost 
resurface. 

1264
01:02:16,100 --> 01:02:18,180
I don't want to say resurface 
cuz that's a little dramatic, 

1265
01:02:18,180 --> 01:02:22,380
but smooth out some of the pits 
and cracks in damaged cartilage.

1266
01:02:22,380 --> 01:02:25,640
So that's Boswellia. 
I use bromaline which is an anti

1267
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,080
fibrotic. 
It's a digestive enzyme which 

1268
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,280
breaks up that scar tissue. 
It's actually meat tenderizer, 

1269
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,640
believe it or not. 
Bromaline is the ingredient that

1270
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,640
helps break up that fibrin 
magnesium because so many people

1271
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,040
are deficient in magnesium 
helping address that muscle 

1272
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,400
tension. 
And then a bio flavonoid 

1273
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,120
compound called quercetin, which
is a powerful antioxidant. 

1274
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,720
And then this black pepper 
extract called piperine to help 

1275
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,200
absorb all of those things. 
And it's that combination, It's 

1276
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,640
like a secret sauce, man. 
It's like a secret recipe that's

1277
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,480
really, really helping people. 
And yeah, that's, I'm super 

1278
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,120
proud of that and I'm really 
excited in the future to just 

1279
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,240
sort of lean into that even 
further. 

1280
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,880
And this is like a like a powder
people put in a shake or just 

1281
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,080
drink with water. 
No, it's a capsule actually is 

1282
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,040
it makes it easier to take. 
Those things are pretty 

1283
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:10,800
especially the buzz. 
Well you are pretty powerful 

1284
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,000
tasting. 
So it's a it's a capsule with 

1285
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,320
all those extracts inside of it.
That's called Golden Revive 

1286
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:16,400
Plus. 
Nice. 

1287
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:17,160
Nice. 
Very cool. 

1288
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:18,920
Yeah, well, I'll definitely have
to link that to that. 

1289
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,920
What is the website link for 
that site? 

1290
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,880
My company's called upwellness 
and it's upwellness.com. 

1291
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,400
Upwellness.com And is that also 
where people need to go to find 

1292
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,420
out more about you? 
Absolutely. 

1293
01:03:31,420 --> 01:03:33,940
Yeah. 
You can go there and read all 

1294
01:03:33,940 --> 01:03:35,740
about me and the other products 
that we've created up. 

1295
01:03:35,740 --> 01:03:37,820
Wellness. 
And then I also, I never would 

1296
01:03:37,820 --> 01:03:39,740
have thought I was going to be 
doing this in medical school. 

1297
01:03:39,740 --> 01:03:42,300
But I'm on Instagram, I'm on 
TikTok. 

1298
01:03:42,300 --> 01:03:45,740
I even made a Threads account 
that new, that new platform. 

1299
01:03:45,740 --> 01:03:48,980
So yeah, just out there in every
possible way to try to give 

1300
01:03:48,980 --> 01:03:51,900
people information about natural
approaches to healthcare and 

1301
01:03:51,900 --> 01:03:53,540
alternatives to the conventional
approach. 

1302
01:03:53,620 --> 01:03:54,940
Hey, I think that's freaking 
awesome. 

1303
01:03:54,940 --> 01:03:58,260
And I feel like the traditional 
Western medicine since they 

1304
01:03:58,260 --> 01:04:00,460
probably there was definitely a 
time at which. 

1305
01:04:00,740 --> 01:04:03,140
They turn their nose up to 
social media, Like, hey, if 

1306
01:04:03,140 --> 01:04:05,220
you've got a social media 
account, you're woo, woo. 

1307
01:04:05,580 --> 01:04:08,900
But, like, if you peel the 
curtain back, like you want to 

1308
01:04:08,900 --> 01:04:11,780
make an impact and you go where 
people's attention spans are, 

1309
01:04:11,780 --> 01:04:16,500
and their attention span is on 
social, on podcast, on these 

1310
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:19,060
platforms. 
Not so much on mainstream 

1311
01:04:19,060 --> 01:04:22,100
television or NPR anymore. 
You're absolutely right. 

1312
01:04:22,100 --> 01:04:24,380
You know, I was actually talking
to a doctor friend of mine, too,

1313
01:04:24,380 --> 01:04:28,060
who writes articles and blogs 
and and at a very kind of high 

1314
01:04:28,060 --> 01:04:30,820
academic sort of level. 
And it was interesting in the 

1315
01:04:30,820 --> 01:04:34,300
conversation because I was 
saying, like, the conversations 

1316
01:04:34,380 --> 01:04:37,180
are happening on on social. 
That's where the conversations 

1317
01:04:37,180 --> 01:04:40,220
are happening. 
And so we can't, as physicians, 

1318
01:04:40,420 --> 01:04:43,700
sit up in our ivory tower and 
and hope that the conversations 

1319
01:04:43,700 --> 01:04:46,660
come to us. 
I think we need to go into those

1320
01:04:46,660 --> 01:04:48,020
platforms. 
That's why. 

1321
01:04:48,060 --> 01:04:50,300
That's why I'm there on 
Instagram, on TikTok, on 

1322
01:04:50,300 --> 01:04:53,060
threads, because that's where 
the conversations are happening 

1323
01:04:53,260 --> 01:04:56,140
and that's where we need to be 
if we want to educate the people

1324
01:04:56,300 --> 01:04:57,980
that are engaged in those 
conversations. 

1325
01:04:57,980 --> 01:05:00,500
So yeah, absolutely. 
There's nothing woo, woo or 

1326
01:05:00,500 --> 01:05:02,580
quackery about it. 
That's that's that's where the 

1327
01:05:02,580 --> 01:05:04,380
people are. 
So that's where we have to be. 

1328
01:05:04,580 --> 01:05:09,860
100% Man Threat Threads is the 
the new Twitter competition from

1329
01:05:09,860 --> 01:05:12,140
Facebook, right? 
That's right, Yeah, that's 

1330
01:05:12,140 --> 01:05:15,620
right. 
Got like 100 million users in 

1331
01:05:15,620 --> 01:05:18,300
the 1st 24 hours or something 
ridiculous like that. 

1332
01:05:18,300 --> 01:05:21,670
Is it pretty user friendly or 
not so much Oh gosh I've only 

1333
01:05:21,670 --> 01:05:25,470
put a few things on there and 
and just sort of tested out the 

1334
01:05:25,470 --> 01:05:29,590
platform it's you know I'm I'm 
approaching 50 years old here so

1335
01:05:29,590 --> 01:05:31,990
just stand on top of all these 
social media things is quite a 

1336
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:35,950
is quite an effort but yeah I 
think it's it's it's it seems to

1337
01:05:35,950 --> 01:05:40,710
me very Twitter like although I 
would say that it seems so far 

1338
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:43,230
anyway a little bit more 
positive right. 

1339
01:05:43,230 --> 01:05:47,190
Twitter is kind of a cesspool 
and rapidly devolves into 

1340
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:49,510
political and all sorts of other
kind of conversations and 

1341
01:05:49,510 --> 01:05:51,830
threads. 
So far seems to be a little bit 

1342
01:05:51,830 --> 01:05:53,150
cleaner, a little bit more 
positive. 

1343
01:05:53,150 --> 01:05:55,270
So that's encouraging. 
I'll check that one out. 

1344
01:05:55,270 --> 01:05:57,150
There's so many of them, man. 
Like, I'm not really doing the 

1345
01:05:57,150 --> 01:05:59,270
whole tick tock thing with just 
so many of them. 

1346
01:05:59,270 --> 01:06:01,230
But yeah, I guess I'll have to 
check out threads now too. 

1347
01:06:02,790 --> 01:06:05,070
Awesome with Dr. Johns. 
I can't think enough the time. 

1348
01:06:05,070 --> 01:06:06,350
I certainly appreciate the 
insight. 

1349
01:06:06,350 --> 01:06:08,710
Good Sir. 
I will link out to your social 

1350
01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:11,510
platforms and the website. 
Make it easy for people to find 

1351
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:12,470
you. 
And if there's ever anything I 

1352
01:06:12,470 --> 01:06:14,190
can do for you, by all means 
just let me know. 

1353
01:06:14,790 --> 01:06:17,150
Well, I really appreciate that. 
Thank you for having me today. 

1354
01:06:17,230 --> 01:06:18,070
You bet. 
Take care.