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Well, hello ladies and gents, 
Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com. 

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Today I've got special guest 
Craig Tony on the line. 

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He shot me an e-mail a few 
months back and he had a really 

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cool, really cool back story 
talking about his experience 

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bodybuilding back in the 80s and
90s. 

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He was very transparent and open
with his use of steroids During 

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a few of those years we talked 
about that. 

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We talked about some of the 
health implications that 

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resulted from that. 
We talked about his 

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transformation to a ketogenic, 
now carnivore state as a result 

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of high blood pressure, having 
his appendix rupture and just 

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kind of what he's learned over 
the years from a competitive 

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standpoint, from a strength and 
conditioning standpoint, from 

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nutrition standpoint. 
So covered quite a lot of 

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different topics. 
I thoroughly enjoyed the 

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conversation. 
I've got no doubt that you will 

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take something from it. 
So that for the delay, sit back,

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relax and do the podcast with 
Craig 

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and we are live. 
Craig, how are you brother? 

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Good doing well, Robert. 
Thanks for having me. 

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Hey man, I'm excited to be 
chatting with you. 

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Just to give the listeners some 
context, you sent me an e-mail. 

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Shoot, I don't even know. 
A couple months back now I guess

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probably and you were talking 
about your your back story with 

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bodybuilding, powerlifting, 
weight training, you know some 

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some health concerns. 
You had transition to keto now 

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carnivore, and it was like a 
super in depth e-mail. 

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It's like shoot man, I need to 
be just talking about all this 

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on a podcast. 
So here we are today to talk 

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about it on a podcast. 
Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm really 

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honored to be on your podcast 
because of all the different 

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podcasts. 
Your podcast incorporates the 

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weight training and especially 
with your bodybuilding. 

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You know, just just really 
important stuff to people who 

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like lifting weights and I don't
think that that information 

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actually gets out there so much 
to our community cause so much 

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of the community is really doing
this for health related purposes

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or they had a history of health,
you know, health issues 

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throughout their life. 
But, you know, so this resonated

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with me and before I even start,
I just want to give your, your 

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props and your respect for. 
I have a lot of respect for you,

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for what you've done in this 
community. 

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Because when I started in 2017, 
when I went keto and it was for 

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health reasons, you're you were 
in this community already as 

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young as you are. 
You're like a old timer in the 

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community and you were, your 
stuff resonated with me, even 

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your weight training, because 
you were old school. 

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You know, a lot of the people 
who are weight training now, you

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know, utilizing all these 
different new funky principles. 

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And I hate to say it, but, you 
know, it comes down to getting 

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in the gym, getting consistent 
and doing basic movements. 

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And I've been doing this for 41 
years in the gym. 

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So I do know, and I did it 
competitive competitively as 

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well. 
And so when I watch you do this 

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stuff, it's like, man, it just 
reinforces what I had been doing

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and what we figure out. 
Those of us who did that, who 

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have been doing it this long 
have figured out and watching 

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you doing it, seeing a different
generation introducing and just 

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kind of in a quiet way how you 
do it is just amazing. 

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And then your story, you know, I
I I know your story too and 

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things you overcame with with 
your story for health reasons 

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and trying to compete in 
bodybuilding, doing all this and

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staying steroid free and 
competing at a high level. 

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I I give you the utmost respect 
on that and so I'm I'm honored 

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to be on this and tell my story 
so. 

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Hey man, Well, I truly, truly do
appreciate all the kind words. 

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It's like I've I've been 
bodybuilding now, you know, for 

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a pretty good while, I guess 
151617 years, I'm not sure, but 

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I've been keto now for more than
half of that. 

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And it's it's weird because 
there's a definite demographic 

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of bodybuilders. 
There's like a separate 

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demographic of natural 
bodybuilders and there's like 

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another demographic for all 
those that are interested in, 

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you know, ketogenic, low carb, 
carnivore fasting, biohacking. 

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But it's like there's so much 
overlap, so why don't we just 

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bridge that gap, you know? 
Yeah I know I and you you seem 

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to be one of the. 
I don't know, I I haven't seen 

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any you know Doctor Baker shows 
his weightlifting that he does 

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and things like that. 
But what you do with the macros 

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and talking about it and being 
in in a ketogenic state, which I

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think is extremely a different 
concept than most carnivores are

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doing. 
And I've noticed that most 

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people who are carnivore tend to
all of a sudden they get 

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carnivore. 
And if they were never lifters 

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before or were old time lifters,
they all of a sudden start 

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thinking that they need to put 
carbs back in their diet and 

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they start doing these, you 
know, carb loads and you know 

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the different techniques for 
bringing carbs in around the 

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workout and everything else. 
And I'm like and then a lot of 

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them also started doing TRT and 
it's like you have stayed true 

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to that and I have been 
experimenting myself and it's 

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like, Dang, you can do this 
without doing any of that stuff.

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And I think yours was the first 
person I ever heard, and this is

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before I watched that Nick, I 
think his name is Norwitz, talk 

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about glycogen stores. 
And you were one of the first 

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ones when I heard you on a 
podcast with somebody else or a 

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doctor was on your podcast. 
And you said, I don't believe 

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that that's true, that you can't
restore your glycogen and you're

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not a doctor. 
But it's like you've been 

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training and you're able to go 
hour workouts, hour and a half 

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workouts. 
Your glycogen stores have to be 

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getting refueled. 
And so you know it's just now 

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they're figuring it out that you
know you can't have somebody on 

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keto for four weeks and think 
that they're going to have an 

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effective workout doing an hour 
or two hour workout. 

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So it's going to have to take. 
I think Nick said that the 

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average time period of their 
people that they tested were 

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twenty months on on a ketogenic 
type of diet. 

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So yeah, you're kind of like a, 
you know, one of the people that

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you're the head of the spear 
regards to weight training. 

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I appreciate that man. 
It's it's interesting because 

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like I don't have you know 
obviously any medical training 

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or background but I think I've 
taken a very boots on the ground

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you know approach and I just, I 
mean I love training, I love 

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pushing the envelope and I've 
done the whole carbohydrate 

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based protocol and as I know you
have as well and we'll dive into

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that. 
But it's like, you know, I I 

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don't need to have a scientific 
study, you know, give me a 

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bullet to the list as to why I 
can or can't perform at a high 

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level in the complete absence of
carbohydrates. 

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I've tested it with, I've tested
it without. 

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I know how my body feels. 
I know what my recovery and 

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performance is like. 
And I don't need a scientific 

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study to show me what I already 
know. 

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And it's like, what else do you 
need? 

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You know, like just focus on 
that and if the performance 

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speaks for itself, then let that
be the reality. 

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Yeah. 
And and staying on that topic, 

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that's that's kind of been my 
approach. 

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It's like I don't want to hear 
the the epidemiology reports and

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and the the studies and all 
that. 

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And you know, people like Lenny 
Norton and all those folks who 

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are just, you know, they just 
regurgitate all that stuff. 

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That means nothing to me. 
It means nothing to me about a 

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rat study listening to somebody 
tell their story and then I get 

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something out of it that means 
something to me. 

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I mean that's you know, n = 1. 
I don't know. 

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They, they team seem to downplay
it. 

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You know, I've had so many 
people say that, you know my 

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effects are placebo and it's 
like you you're insane. 

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But anyways, you know, hearing 
that kind of stuff and even you 

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know the level of followers that
you have compared to the level 

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of followers that steroid guys 
have you're you're not even 

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close. 
And it's and it's to me it's 

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it's a little frustrating 
because they're getting the 

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followers because, you know, 
they're just massively just, you

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know, enhanced. 
And people actually think that 

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they can get that way. 
And so when the guys who are 

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enhanced don't say that they're 
on steroids and they're giving 

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out advice on nutrition and 
other things to do. 

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I think it's like it's it's kind
of, it's it's frustrating for me

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to watch, 'cause I'm like, those
guys should be listening to you 

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to see how you can do it 
naturally and you know, how big 

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you can get naturally. 
I mean, my son, he's a carnivore

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and he's a shoot. 
If you look at him, you'd think 

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he's on the juice and he's 28 
years old. 

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So he he knows how he can get 
you competing, getting a pro 

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card, everything else. 
I mean, you're shredded 3% body 

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fat in my last show. 
I mean, you know, naturally, 

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it's it's that kind of 
information that means way more.

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I mean, I have total respect for
the Mark Bells and the guys who 

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come right out and say, hey 
dude, you know, I like my TRT. 

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This is what I do and I have 
total respect for them. 

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I I don't have a bad word to 
say. 

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I did that. 
I know what the feeling of being

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massive and and the feeling of, 
you know, just the feeling going

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in the weight room of, you know,
pushing around some massive 

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weights is, you know, it's, you 
know, it's a lot of people want 

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that and I totally understand 
it. 

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Not only that, I understand the 
60 year olds, the 40 year olds 

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and 50 year olds who start TRT 
because they're trying to feel 

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better, but nobody's talking 
about what the problems may be. 

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And you know, I I have, I have 
some friends who do the TRT. 

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And even if you listen to like, 
what's his name, Derek from 

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Workplace, More Dates talk about
the TRT. 

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It's the first thing they talk 
about doing is putting them on a

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blood pressure medication. 
What does that tell you? 

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You know what I mean? 
So if you're 40 or 50 years old,

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you really think you need to be 
taking something that you should

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be getting put on blood pressure
medication at that age, you 

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know, and and I've talked, I've 
talked to friends about it and I

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can look at the pictures and I 
can look at their food and tell 

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that they're on TRT when they're
50 or 60. 

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And so when they talk to me and 
go, hey, what are you doing? 

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And then I tell them and I go, 
you know, what are you doing? 

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And, you know, I say, yeah, I 
know you're on TRT or whatever. 

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And then I'd be like, so how's 
your blood pressure? 

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Are you on blood pressure meds? 
And they're like, yeah, that's 

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kind of why I'm talking to you. 
And I'm like, you know, so 

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nobody wants to talk about the 
ugly part of it. 

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They see the pictures and it all
looks good. 

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But behind the scenes, what's 
going on to the body? 

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You can't, you can't alter one 
thing. 

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It's like putting a three, you 
know, a 350 engine in a Pinto. 

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You alter that power without 
burning out your transmission, 

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without burning out your tires, 
without burning out something, 

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you know, in that car. 
And the same thing with the 

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body. 
When you supplement it, that 

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supplement's going to do 
something somewhere else and 

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you're going to have to 
accommodate it or you know, reap

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the unbent, you know the 
benefits or detriments. 

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Yeah, an. 
Alteration so. 

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I totally agree man. 
And I feel like, you know, I 

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don't know that much about these
different, you know, compounds 

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performance enhancing drugs 
because I mean honestly I have 

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not really looked into it at 
depth because I I don't use 

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them. 
If I was using them, I would 

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like a deep dive study on it 
all. 

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But since I don't even entertain
that idea, I haven't really done

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that. 
I'll bring people on the podcast

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that are experts in that field. 
I'll pick their brain and at the

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end of the day it's like you 
know, to each their own. 

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Like I don't have you know any 
judgement one or the other as 

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long as they're honest and 
transparent about it. 

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Like I think that is key for 
sure. 

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But as far as me personally, I 
want to see what I can achieve 

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naturally. 
But honestly like all of that 

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external inputs and variables 
just seems like an easy way to 

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cloud the equation and just add 
too many variables to the mix. 

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Like, I don't want to have to 
try and keep track of all that 

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stuff, you know? 
It just seems overwhelming. 

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00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,200
Yeah. 
And it it was for me when I when

223
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:08,920
I was down that rabbit hole and 
you know back when when I was 

224
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,280
doing that, well, I'll go ahead 
and just go ahead and say what 

225
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,720
where what I was doing. 
Yeah, give me some back story. 

226
00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:20,720
I So anyways, my name's Greg 
Tony and I'm 61 years old and I 

227
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,640
started competitive bodybuilding
in the 80s. 

228
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:31,200
I actually went into a show at 
18 years old when I was natural.

229
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,040
I had been lifting for a couple 
of years. 

230
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,320
I lifted weights for a a little 
bit in high school, but not a 

231
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,600
lot. 
But once I graduated from high 

232
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,800
school, I wanted something to 
take the place in my sports that

233
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,240
I was doing. 
And so the weightlifting, I just

234
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,480
liked it and then got the 
magazines and was totally hooked

235
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,560
on oh wow, you know, I'd like to
get jacked. 

236
00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:57,080
You know, I was always, I was 
always always had a muscular 

237
00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,080
build. 
I wasn't one of those little 

238
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,080
buff guys, but I was always 
'cause I'm Six 2 and so I was 

239
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,960
always more lean. 
I never had very low body fat. 

240
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,680
I was always ripped. 
I remember, you know, they would

241
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:15,960
call me Little Hulk in high 
school, not because of my mass, 

242
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,280
but just that the muscles just 
just were were out there because

243
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,920
I I'd be pretty ripped. 
So lifting weights, my big thing

244
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,720
was I I wanted to, I had to gain
some mass, you know, I had to 

245
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,640
get big. 
And so at 18 I had entered a 

246
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,880
show. 
I can't remember looking back, 

247
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,720
all I remember I didn't place at
all and I just remembered those 

248
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,760
guys were really big and I was 
like Dang. 

249
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,840
And so talking to some of the 
competitors even at 19, a lot of

250
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,160
those guys were doing steroids 
and which is? 

251
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,600
Crazy at that young of an age. 
I mean, they've got so much 

252
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,400
natural occurring testosterone. 
Like to to supplement that young

253
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,680
of an age just blows my mind. 
Yeah, it it is. 

254
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,920
And so, you know, I wasn't 
thinking about steroids at that 

255
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,680
point at all. 
I just decided basically like 

256
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,160
you just said, hey, I'm young 
enough. 

257
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,400
The stuff I was reading, even 
even back then, you know, none 

258
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,680
of the people ever recommend, 
first of all, they never talked 

259
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,120
about steroids. 
Even Arnold and all of those 

260
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,560
guys didn't really talk about 
it. 

261
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:19,960
They kind of had the illusion 
that most people had the 

262
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,720
illusion that they weren't 
taking anything. 

263
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,160
And so there wasn't much in the 
literature. 

264
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,800
Although when the topic would 
come up, people were like, you 

265
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,120
know, you shouldn't take this 
under, you know, 21 years old or

266
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,320
whatever your body's forming. 
And and now what I know about 

267
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,560
any of that stuff, people are 
taking it under 26, they 

268
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,440
shouldn't be taking it because 
your brain and everything else 

269
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,440
is still forming all the way up 
until that age. 

270
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,480
So whatever. 
I mean, I don't think anybody 

271
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,560
needs it at all. 
If somebody's trying to be, you 

272
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,360
know, Mr. Olympia, obviously 
there's no way around it. 

273
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,080
But anyway, so I started to work
out more. 

274
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:03,080
I I went to, started going to 
gyms, I went to in our area. 

275
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,760
I was in Connecticut. 
I lived there most of my life 

276
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,760
when I was growing up. 
And there was a place, we were 

277
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,600
in a Podunk, we were in a little
Podunk town called Woodstock, CT

278
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,440
and there was no gym that was 
any kind of gym. 

279
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,520
So I would go to Southbridge, 
MA. 

280
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,800
We were on the border and they 
had a little hole in the wall 

281
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,800
gym and there were some big guys
in there pushing some weight 

282
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,000
around. 
I was like, ah, this is pretty 

283
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,760
cool. 
So I got addicted to that at 

284
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,320
that time. 
Then I took a bartending at like

285
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,000
18 or 19 years old. 
Before that I was working for my

286
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,280
dad's business, which was a 
concrete business, but I didn't 

287
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,600
want part of that business 
anymore. 

288
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:48,880
It was hellish work and so and 
so I decided to go into the 

289
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,960
bartending. 
So I would go to Hartford, CT 

290
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,560
and that was a pretty big boxing
town, boxing community. 

291
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,280
I know a lot of bars outside of 
Hartford in Manchester and West 

292
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,120
Hartford, and that's where 
bodybuilding was actually pretty

293
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:11,280
big. 
And so I joined a gym and what 

294
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,600
the hell it was called, I can't 
remember the name of it. 

295
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,440
When it comes to me, I'll, I'll 
say what it Gibson's Gym. 

296
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,200
And that was just an old school 
gym with all old equipment, but 

297
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,960
it was brand new but all basic 
equipment. 

298
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,800
And there were some Olympic 
lifters in there. 

299
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,880
I I'll never forget this guy. 
He was like, man, he had to be 

300
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,720
about £300, not fat either, just
about 6-4. 

301
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,640
And I remember him doing front 
squats with, you know, five 

302
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:46,000
plates, 44495, right. 
And I was like, holy crap, you 

303
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,880
know, that's a lot of weight. 
And there was some people 

304
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,240
pushing around a lot of weight. 
And I'm like, I want to do this.

305
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,440
And so I worked out there, was 
getting pretty big, getting 

306
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,680
pretty strong and decided to, I 
was going to compete in a show. 

307
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,480
People were talking, saying, 
hey, you should try and get into

308
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,440
a show, but there's no way you 
can do it without getting on the

309
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,079
juice and this and that. 
And it was like, so at 21 years 

310
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:13,240
old, I remember it was a 21 
years old, I went to a place and

311
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,240
it was all back then. 
It wasn't, you know, out front. 

312
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:21,480
It wasn't, you know, getting 
that pharmacy prescription, 

313
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,839
although it was not considered a
felony drug, It was like getting

314
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:28,920
a prescription of Tylenol with 
codeine. 

315
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,800
So it wasn't. 
It was that when you want to say

316
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,880
an infraction, it was never on 
the books as being a felony. 

317
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,280
But it was illegal to sell it, 
obviously, but taking it or 

318
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,880
having it was not an issue. 
Not a super issue anyways. 

319
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,600
But anyway, yeah, I'm not gonna 
try and minimize it. 

320
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,320
It was illegal, but it was 
considered a misdemeanor 

321
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,240
infraction on the law books. 
So anyway, so I had met with the

322
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,680
guy who basically was doing all 
the cycles for people in that 

323
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:10,120
area and he owned a gym in West 
Hartford, CT And so we would, 

324
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:14,160
most of the people would go 
there and talk to that guy and 

325
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,040
he would, you know, set them up 
on cycles. 

326
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,320
And then plus he was a big name 
among some big names. 

327
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,720
I mean actually I ended up at 
one point, Mike Quinn, I don't 

328
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,280
know if you know that name. 
He just recently died but he was

329
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:35,240
he was in the Olympia a few 
times and he was big time 

330
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,760
bodybuilder in the North 
Northeast area. 

331
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,680
And he would go in and he would 
talk to that owner of that gym a

332
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,240
lot and he was getting ready for
show and he needed a training 

333
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,680
partner And that owner said, 
hey, I know a guy who pushes 

334
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,120
around the weight that you push 
around. 

335
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,840
He said go see that Craig, Tony 
guy, he's at Gibson's gym. 

336
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,240
You can train there with him and
they called Gibson up and you 

337
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,000
know Gibson's gym up and talked 
to the owner said yeah 

338
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,840
absolutely Mike, Clint, come in 
here. 

339
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,520
Oh that's great. 
He'll bring more people in. 

340
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,760
And so I would I trained with 
that guy for a week and he he 

341
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,840
was extremely strong. 
But yeah, so we had good 

342
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,160
workouts or whatever. 
But so I started at 21 and I 

343
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:22,160
entered was what I was getting 
ready for was a show called the 

344
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,360
Big East and it was a regional 
show and it was a qualifier for 

345
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:33,040
a national level shows. 
So I was, I never knew much 

346
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,760
about diet. 
I just didn't eat junk food and 

347
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,520
now we stayed ripped. 
And so I didn't really know how 

348
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,720
to get super ripped like you 
obviously know how to do for the

349
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,040
shows you compete in. 
There's a difference between, 

350
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:51,080
you know, carrying around 6 to 
8% body fat and going down to 

351
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,840
the levels that you have to go 
to for a show, which is, you 

352
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,200
know, 4 or 5%. 
And so I could always walk 

353
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,680
around with like between 6 and 
8% with just, you know, not just

354
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,440
not eating junk and especially 
when I was taking the steroids. 

355
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,760
If anybody knows anything about 
steroids, you know, they're 

356
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:20,040
they're a, they allow your food 
to get turned into muscle, so 

357
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,880
you become insulin sensitive. 
That's one good thing. 

358
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,120
One thing about steroids. 
And ITRT is they allow you to 

359
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:31,640
have insulin sensitivity. 
And so by doing that it just 

360
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,200
makes everything come in. 
And if you notice with a lot of 

361
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,320
bodybuilders, there's a few, 
there's a few that watch their 

362
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,800
diet real well and then there 
are a few that don't. 

363
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,600
And when I equate the difference
in those being as kind of like 

364
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,920
Larry Wheels and and I I respect
him too for his honesty and 

365
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,520
stuff. 
He's crazy though, but I respect

366
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,880
him for his honesty. 
But if you listen to him, he 

367
00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:00,400
says he can't eat a lot. 
So he'll eat calorie not dense, 

368
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,160
but calorie high foods in order 
to get the calories in to build 

369
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:10,040
that muscle. 
And I was like him, I had, I 

370
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,960
never had it. 
Steroids gave me a bad appetite.

371
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,840
I didn't have an appetite and so
I had to force feed myself. 

372
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,680
And so you'll get people like 
that. 

373
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,120
Although I didn't do what Larry 
Wheels didn't eat junk, a lot of

374
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,680
them will go to the chip witches
or ice creams or something. 

375
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,520
That just has a ton of calories.
I know Sam Sulak was doing that 

376
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,880
as well. 
And it it gets you to the 

377
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,160
whatever 10,000 calories a day 
that you need to get to, to 

378
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,640
maintain that muscle or to get 
that muscle bulk that you want. 

379
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,480
But you can imagine when you're 
doing that, how damaging that is

380
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,120
to your body. 
You know, so outwardly you look 

381
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:50,120
good, but inwardly you're, you 
know, you're not getting the 

382
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:52,840
nutrients that your body needs 
and you're not getting that 

383
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,480
nutrient density. 
So, but there are two types. 

384
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,520
There are the types that are 
able to somehow their appetite 

385
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,680
doesn't get suppressed at all 
and they're able to eat a lot of

386
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,640
calories. 
There's a blessing and curse to 

387
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,320
that is the blessing is that 
you're eating good food. 

388
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,120
The curse is that you can still 
get fat. 

389
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,360
And so they have to diet. 
When it comes down to shows, I 

390
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:18,640
didn't really do much dieting 
because I didn't know how to and

391
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,760
I was ripped and so I just ate 
less. 

392
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,320
Food is all I did to diet. 
So I entered that show. 

393
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,800
There were some people who had 
been around for a while and that

394
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,840
was a person, person that they 
were pushing. 

395
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,240
I can't remember his last. 
His last name was Prince. 

396
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,200
They were pushing for the AAU 
America. 

397
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,440
And so he ended up winning the 
show. 

398
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,160
I think I got either 4th. 
I think I got 4th, but I 

399
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:52,640
qualified for a regional show by
placing 4th And so after that 

400
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,240
point I was going to college at 
1819 in the Bronx, NY and at 

401
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,280
Maritime College and then AT20I 
transferred to University of 

402
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,680
Connecticut and that's when I 
was spending a lot of time at 

403
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,240
Gibson's gym. 
And so between the ages of 21 

404
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,640
and 23, I was doing cycles and 
competing. 

405
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,240
I would go, but I was pretty. 
I was pretty by the book, by, 

406
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,920
you know, 12 weeks on, 8 weeks 
off, 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off. 

407
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,960
So you were cycling off. 
A lot of people never even cycle

408
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,080
off these days. 
Right. 

409
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,680
Yeah. 
And you know, I didn't know that

410
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,800
at the time until I was working 
out with a guy. 

411
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,760
I was at A at a gym. 
And so anyways, I moved to 

412
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:39,320
California when I was 22 years 
old. 

413
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:43,520
I was with a girl at the time. 
She was going to go to UC Davis.

414
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,760
She's like, hey, would you come 
to California with me and kind 

415
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,760
of keep an eye on me and move 
out there with me? 

416
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,680
I was like, cool. 
Yeah, I'll go out there. 

417
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,160
I wanted to do bodybuilding. 
I was into that. 

418
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,480
I was going to the University of
Connecticut. 

419
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,880
Didn't know what I wanted to 
major in, though. 

420
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,600
So I was like, if I pick up 
school again, I'll go out and do

421
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,880
it in California, get residency 
and go to SAC State or 

422
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,520
somewhere, you know, in 
California. 

423
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,600
And I did end up doing it. 
I went back to school and got my

424
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,960
business degree while I was 
working at the prisons. 

425
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,840
But anyway, so I come out here 
and I'm like, OK, I want to be 

426
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,560
poor bodybuilder, go work out at
Gold. 

427
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,080
So I'm like this is the Mecca, 
you know and come out here to 

428
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,960
California and I'm doing the 
cycles and like you said, I'm 

429
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,160
thinking that people are on and 
off cycles. 

430
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,440
And I remember a friend of mine,
he, I was like, so you off a 

431
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,360
cycle now And he's like, yeah, 
yeah, I'm off a cycle. 

432
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,280
And I don't know, we were in a 
bathroom, whatever. 

433
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,800
And his gym bag was soap. 
And I'm going, you know, you've 

434
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,760
got testosterone, Simponi in in 
there and you got, you know, 

435
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,440
this and that in there. 
I says you're freaking lying, 

436
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,320
you know, And he's like, oh, and
he got into blush And he goes, 

437
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,560
well, I'm not taking as much as 
when I'm on my side. 

438
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,760
So. 
So being off a cycle was 

439
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,480
actually being in a reduced 
level. 

440
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,840
So it's like people nowadays who
always talk about, oh, I'm on 

441
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,760
TRT, you're taking steroids, all
right. 

442
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,440
Because the level of steroids 
that you're taking for TRT doses

443
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,520
and steroid doses, it's a Gray 
area. 

444
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,400
And everybody, it's great now 
because wow, I can say I'm on 

445
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,200
TRT, you know, and it's just 
like, just say you're on 

446
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,720
steroids, all right, Nobody's 
going to going to judge you. 

447
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,760
You're getting it legally, 
probably through a prescription 

448
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,360
anyway, so who cares? 
That is definitely the case, 

449
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,000
man. 
Like TRT has become so socially 

450
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,240
acceptable and there's been a 
lot of studies that show, you 

451
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,960
know, like there's certainly 
benefits to it have taken at the

452
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,640
right dosages and it's kind of 
like all kinds of, you know, 

453
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,840
anti aging benefits, you know, 
bone health. 

454
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,960
I mean there's there's lots of 
perks to it, but it's it's kind 

455
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,480
of scary that it's become so 
socially acceptable because 

456
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,200
people are just, you know, 
flying by to see their pants and

457
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,280
taking it, not cycling off of 
it, taking super physiological 

458
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,960
doses of it. 
I mean, it's kind of the Wild 

459
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,320
West in a lot of regards. 
Yeah, it really is. 

460
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,320
And I just kind of look at it 
like any kind of pharmaceutical.

461
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,480
There are those studies, but I 
wonder what the follow up 

462
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:09,240
studies are regarding 'cause I 
think a lot of the people, you 

463
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,960
know, they just say I got low 
testosterone, they go in, they 

464
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:15,120
they take the TRT and they will,
you know, they try and bring 

465
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,880
their levels between whatever, 
300 and 1200. 

466
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,200
And most of the doctors try and 
keep it into a range. 

467
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,320
But like I said, even the ones 
that are doing that, most of 

468
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,640
those guys I know are taking 
blood pressure meds as well. 

469
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,200
So there's although they're 
getting enhancements and they're

470
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,560
probably getting bone density 
and everything else, it's really

471
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,640
like, dude, why don't you try a 
low carb diet and see if your 

472
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,120
testosterone can boost, see if 
your, you know, your bone 

473
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,400
levels? 
Because I I guarantee they're 

474
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,400
just insulin resistant at that 
point. 

475
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,800
I mean, I'm not a doctor. 
I mean, in my opinion is that 

476
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,720
most people just get to be 
insulin resistant at, you know, 

477
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,840
in their latter years, 40 years 
old. 

478
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,800
And it it happens mostly to 
those of us who are athletes 

479
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,960
because we spent so many years 
carb loading. 

480
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,160
I mean, it's just the way it is.
If you're athletic, you're going

481
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,120
to be pushing your body super 
hard. 

482
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,080
And that pushing, although it's 
a good push and it's a good 

483
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,440
stress, it's still a stress on 
the body. 

484
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,120
And you are more likely to be 
later on in life having problems

485
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:24,720
because that stress will affect 
your CNS, you know, central 

486
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,680
nervous system and all kinds of 
issues on your body. 

487
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,360
So you have to, you know, look 
at the fact, am I insulin 

488
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:34,200
resistant? 
Is that what's causing the 

489
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,160
weight gain? 
Is that what? 

490
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,440
OK why don't you try addressing 
that naturally, see what 

491
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,200
happens? 
You know, go on a low carb diet,

492
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,760
go on a keto carnivore type of 
diet and see if that happens 

493
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,080
before. 
But it's it's a lot easier and 

494
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:52,080
it's a lot more fun to take the 
TRT and and you know it, it 

495
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,960
makes you stronger. 
I'm not going to say it doesn't,

496
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:59,160
and I'm also not going to say 
that those guys don't work hard,

497
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,160
'cause I work my ass off when I 
was taking my steroids to get 

498
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,200
the size I did. 
But it was easier to overtrain 

499
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,920
without having the detriments of
overtraining. 

500
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,520
So doing what you're doing, you 
have to be very careful as a 

501
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,440
natural guy because your levels 
of everything in your body 

502
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,560
revolve around what your, you 
know, what your inflammation is 

503
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,960
like. 
And when you're on steroids, you

504
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,760
don't have to play that game as 
much you can. 

505
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,080
You can really push it, you can 
do those super long workouts, 

506
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,360
you can really push the points. 
The only problem is, is then you

507
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:40,200
get things like what Larry 
Wheels and people like even me 

508
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,760
experience later on, later on in
life is you start getting tendon

509
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,960
tears, you start getting muscle 
tears. 

510
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,520
And is that attributed to the 
steroids? 

511
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,720
I don't know. 
I mean, you know, there's a good

512
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,000
case to say that, yeah, because 
you're able to put, you're able 

513
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,240
to push your body a little bit 
more than then you could. 

514
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,480
If you were natural, then is 
that going to cause because your

515
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,640
tendons aren't going to get any 
necessarily, I don't think get 

516
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,280
much stronger. 
You kind of have this tendon 

517
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,240
strength that you'll always 
have. 

518
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,320
So you know, a lot of guys, you 
see them with PEC tears, they 

519
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,440
see them with the bicep tears, 
you see them with these, you 

520
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,560
know, like I had quad ruptures 
and stuff like that. 

521
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,040
But yeah, it's, you know, 
there's a there's a price to pay

522
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,920
for the supplements. 
I think that, you know, the good

523
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Lord gave us a body and gave us 
food to eat. 

524
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,560
And if we if we do it correctly 
and we get nutrient density that

525
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,680
we can kind of maximize. 
And you're a good example of 

526
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:43,000
what you're able to do with 
proper nutrient diet and proper 

527
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,960
hormones. 
Because I I throw that in there 

528
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,480
because I think people doing 
carnivore are not eating enough 

529
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,760
fat a lot of times, especially 
if they're lifting and that's 

530
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,720
where they end up going to the 
carbs is because they're not 

531
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,000
getting that fat for energy and 
not getting that fat for hormone

532
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,520
production. 
And they're depleting it really 

533
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,720
quickly, thinking that the 
higher protein is going to fix 

534
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320
that. 
And I don't believe my personal 

535
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,200
opinion and my experiments on 
myself that doesn't. 

536
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,200
It doesn't work that way, 
necessarily so. 

537
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,760
Yeah, no 100% agreement. 
I feel like, you know, Carnivore

538
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,440
in my mind is just a subset of 
keto. 

539
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,960
But when you take Carnivore from
a high protein standpoint to the

540
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,760
extreme, and it's kind of like 
the pendulum has kind of swung 

541
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,680
that direction lately, it seems,
it feels, it seems as though 

542
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,200
people have become fearful of 
too much fat and they're just, 

543
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,160
you know, protein's been given a
Halo, which I mean protein's 

544
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,560
obviously a very important 
macronutrient. 

545
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,560
But like, there is a point of 
diminishing returns where if 

546
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,360
you're consuming so much protein
relative to fat and you're doing

547
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,440
low carb carnivore and you're 
not consuming carbohydrates, 

548
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,200
then, you know, protein is not a
great substrate for injury. 

549
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,280
So people's performance is going
to hinder and they're not going 

550
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,120
to have the, the hormonal 
baseline that they need. 

551
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,920
I mean, and when you diet down 
like my, I've been super open 

552
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,520
about my, my hormone levels. 
And like as a natural when 

553
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,640
you're really lean, you know, 
your hormone tanks regardless of

554
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,600
the diet you're on. 
So, like, my total testosterone 

555
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,880
was in the freaking, you know, 
toilet at the end of my prep. 

556
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,600
But since my prep, it's 
literally doubled every single 

557
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,560
time I've gotten blood work in 
the reverse diet. 

558
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,600
So I mean, it will become, it 
will bounce back to natural 

559
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,920
levels, but you got to do it the
right way. 

560
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,840
And when Speaking of food, like 
when people are on gear and you 

561
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,360
can speak to this, but when 
you're on gear, you're able to 

562
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,600
get away with a lot more in the 
kitchen. 

563
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,920
You don't have to be as concise 
with the macro nutrients. 

564
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,160
If you're taking like Trinblown,
you can, you know, lean down 

565
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,240
much more quickly without losing
muscle tissue, nearly as likely 

566
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,760
as you would if you were 
natural. 

567
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,320
And then when you reverse diet 
and you can be much more 

568
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,200
aggressive with that, have that 
rebound muscle gaining 

569
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,800
potential, and then diet for 
another show much more soon 

570
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,800
after your prior show. 
And you can't really get away 

571
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,240
with that if you're natural. 
No. 

572
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,880
Yeah. 
And and that's The thing is when

573
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,480
and that's that's exactly what 
I'm saying and and one of the 

574
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,560
things that I, I respect about 
you too with you've seen Keto 

575
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,400
from 2017. 
Anyways, from when I started it,

576
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,840
from that point in time to now, 
it kind of has gone out of favor

577
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,040
and kind of carnivore has taken 
over and I've watched you 

578
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,920
maintain ketogenic state you yet
you put your, you know, you put 

579
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,200
your ketone levels in, you put 
your blood sugar levels in. 

580
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,000
And that's for me, it's really 
cool because it gives me a 

581
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,000
reference point to look at. 
And the same thing with your, 

582
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,600
with your testosterone of a few 
things there that you just said 

583
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,560
with your testosterone tanking, 
which it obviously does when 

584
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,400
you're when you're dieting and 
to where you're libido. 

585
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,880
And that shows you kind of the 
effect that yes, you're not 

586
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,840
going to, you're still not going
to shut off your testosterone, 

587
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,280
even if your levels, I don't 
know if you ever tested them. 

588
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,840
But even if your levels were 
considered below the 300 mark, 

589
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,160
you know, what's the fear? 
Is the fear that it's going to 

590
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,960
shut down completely. 
I don't. 

591
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,680
I don't think. 
I don't. 

592
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,040
I don't even think. 
Well. 

593
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,640
And I did the steroids for about
2 1/2, almost three years. 

594
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,040
My levels were bad when I didn't
get them tested, but I could 

595
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,520
feel when I went back in the gym
because I'm, I'm the kind of 

596
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,400
person that will go do things 
cold Turkey. 

597
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,360
And so I'll go back to that. 
I'm kind of bouncing around, but

598
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,000
going back to the the thing you 
were saying about the, you know,

599
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,040
about the the diet. 
But yeah, you can, you have a 

600
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,560
lot more wiggle room in what you
can eat. 

601
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:38,320
And so you're able to, you're 
able to eat more crazy foods. 

602
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,440
Like I said, they looking for 
calories, especially when 

603
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,560
they're bulking, but when they 
are dieting they do. 

604
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,600
And that was the thing I did 
notice was a lot of there were 

605
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,840
two different strategies that 
people would use. 

606
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,880
They'd either do a carb loading 
before the shows or they 

607
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,560
depleted themselves about a week
before the show and then like 

608
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,000
that day before they would carb 
load. 

609
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,080
And you know, I would watch 
people do it and it was like 

610
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,760
amazing that the vascularity and
the water just gets sucked right

611
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,000
into the muscle The day before 
the show. 

612
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,239
I'm like, this guy looks like 
crap and then boom, just in a 

613
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,400
day they look different. 
Some people that didn't work 

614
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,320
well for them and they would do 
sodium loading instead where 

615
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,239
they would sodium deplete and 
then sodium load. 

616
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,000
And that was another technique 
that the people were doing. 

617
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,239
And now thinking about what I do
know about carbs and the body 

618
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,199
and sodium, it's like I think if
people were pretty much on a 

619
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,920
lower carb diet that the low 
carb or low carb depletion 

620
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,679
didn't work for them because the
reason carb loading works is 

621
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,840
you're tricking your body for 
that basically five day period. 

622
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,000
If you miss that peak, obviously
you flatten right out because 

623
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,000
your body's doing it saying OK, 
it's a biological computer and 

624
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,520
it's figuring out, OK, how do I 
fix this? 

625
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,280
You know, that's a shock to my 
body. 

626
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,880
That's why you're getting that 
look. 

627
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,000
That look is not necessarily a 
healthy look. 

628
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,040
It's just what your body's doing
to react to the fact that you 

629
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,120
carb depleted for all this time.
Now you just put all those carbs

630
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,680
back in and now it's trying to 
figure out how to find 

631
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,360
equilibrium. 
And so same thing with the 

632
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:15,720
sodium. 
It's a trickery. 

633
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,160
That's why that window is so 
important for people that if 

634
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,600
they miss it by a day, you know,
it throws you completely off and

635
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,400
your skin gets all messed up and
your your vascularity goes away,

636
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,320
your muscles get flat. 
So yeah, for me, I just didn't 

637
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,720
do any of that. 
I just stayed, like I said, 

638
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:38,840
between 6 and 8% body fat. 
I don't know what it was on the 

639
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,280
night of the show in California,
but so basically I trained at a 

640
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,240
gym called the Body and Power in
Carmichael, CA, which is outside

641
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:52,280
of Sacramento, and at that time 
that was the gym in the 

642
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,080
Sacramento area. 
There was a guy by the name of 

643
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,600
Bill Canberra who who owned the 
gym, was super nice to me. 

644
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,960
Definitely a big gear guy, 
definitely. 

645
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,680
He'd been in some shows Massive 
guy. 

646
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,000
If you look at his pictures, 
just just size wise massive 

647
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,880
about 5-8. 
I want to say maybe 5-9 I don't 

648
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,800
know. 
But he competed in some shows. 

649
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,720
He I can't remember how what 
level he got to. 

650
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,800
I don't know if he got to the 
you know the Mr. America stuff 

651
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,920
but he did the Sacramento, did 
some regional shows and he 

652
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,200
looked really he looked great. 
If he had ever had an issue it 

653
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,840
was dieting down. 
He liked his size. 

654
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,600
He he was big tricep, big back 
guy. 

655
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,800
Anyways, his gym, really great 
gym for me. 

656
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,840
He was super kind to me and so I
represented his gym going into 

657
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,680
the California State 
Championships and my qualifier 

658
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,920
was my regional show and in in 
New England. 

659
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:57,400
And so when I went in that show,
you talk about politics, That 

660
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,640
was the year 1986. 
It was the year Troy Zukalato 

661
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,320
won the show. 
If anybody knows that name at 

662
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,080
all, it's them talking about old
times, but Flex Magazine and 

663
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,520
Iron. 
I don't know what the two were. 

664
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,760
Flex was one of the big ones. 
Muscle and Fitness was big, but 

665
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,560
for hardcore it was a Flex 
magazine. 

666
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,080
Anyways, if you looked in those 
magazines, you would see 

667
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,960
pictures of people in some of 
those magazines that didn't have

668
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,120
names under them, but they would
take a picture of some muscular 

669
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,800
guy in the gym. 
All of those guys were guys that

670
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,760
were being promoted by Joe 
Weider. 

671
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:35,480
So there were people that all of
a sudden I saw him all on stage,

672
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,000
you know, in the California, I'm
like, holy crap, I didn't 

673
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,400
realize how big a show that was.
And it was a basically a 

674
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,360
qualifier for the Mr. America. 
And usually the person who won 

675
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,760
the cow was favored to win the 
Mr. America contest. 

676
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,040
And I think that's what had 
happened with Zuccovato that 

677
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,480
year. 
And he looked good. 

678
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,720
And, you know, I'm not taking 
anything away from him at all. 

679
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,080
He looked good and I didn't you 
know I didn't get down to the 

680
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:06,400
whatever 3 or 4% body fat but 
like I like I wrote to you I 

681
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,760
said that my claim to fame was I
was mentioned in I believe it 

682
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,400
was Flex magazine to be they go 
the the size of these people 

683
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:19,720
ranged from the heaviest the 
biggest at six foot two 248 lbs.

684
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:20,520
Craig. 
Tony. 

685
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,680
That's it. 
That's that's my moment. 

686
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,480
There's there's my 15 minutes of
fame and that was it. 

687
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,080
I didn't place, I didn't make 
the night show and you know, but

688
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,040
I knew in my head, I mean you 
know I was I towered over these 

689
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,480
guys and you know how it is when
a tall person is holding that 

690
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,320
much muscle, you can't not see 
it. 

691
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,360
You know what I mean? 
But you know, it's but if you 

692
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,400
get somebody, I don't care what 
height or weight, if that's 

693
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,720
super shredded, you know, 
they're obviously going to be 

694
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:51,800
better conditioned and deserve 
to win the show. 

695
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:56,200
But it it, you know, you see 
like you see Lou Ferrigno to me,

696
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:00,000
his physique was always 
impressive to me and that's kind

697
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,680
of what, you know, he was like 
6-5. 

698
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,600
And that was kind of the 
physique that I look to. 

699
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,000
And I knew at that height that 
probably my career in 

700
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,640
bodybuilding, you know, was not 
going to be something 

701
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,360
substantial. 
And I also got a chin check that

702
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,360
day because I talked to a guy 
who I hadn't seen in six weeks 

703
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,480
and six weeks before he looked 
like crap. 

704
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,640
And the day of the show I knew 
recognized him and I go, Dang, 

705
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,960
how, how did you get like this? 
And he says, come on Greg, he 

706
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,520
goes, it's a chemical warfare, 
you got to know. 

707
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,240
And so I talked to Bill 
Canberra, who just recently 

708
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:39,280
died. 
Actually, Bill Canberra had 

709
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,480
prostate cancer and bone cancer 
and died. 

710
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,680
But he told me he goes, yeah, he
said that you got to understand 

711
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,400
the diuretics and all of that 
stuff. 

712
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,880
And I was like, you know what? 
I'm done with this. 

713
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,040
And that same year they also 
made it a felony drug, even to 

714
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,520
possess steroids. 
And so when I was thinking about

715
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,040
a late year and, you know, a 
career in law enforcement and 

716
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,000
even at that gym, there were a 
lot of cops, they were on the 

717
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,280
juice. 
They all stopped taking it and 

718
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,600
you could see a bunch of people 
shrink. 

719
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,480
It was it was pretty 
interesting. 

720
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,760
But my my personal history and 
story as far as strength goes, 

721
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:22,440
is my strength, really. 
At first it declined and so I'd 

722
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,840
say about a six month period. 
But I always loved the gym. 

723
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:28,920
So for somebody like you, you 
can understand this. 

724
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,560
I love the gym. 
I don't need to train in front 

725
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,080
of people. 
I could do heavyweight and my 

726
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,280
gym is in my house now. 
I can do heavyweight without a 

727
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,720
crowd watching. 
I don't care. 

728
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:42,280
It's yeah, I do it for me. 
I love pushing weight and so 

729
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,560
that's what also made it hard 
with bodybuilding. 

730
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,440
I was not one of these guys who 
wanted to do a lot of reps on 

731
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,720
stuff. 
I was a guy who wanted to see 

732
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:52,320
how heavy he could squat, how 
much you know. 

733
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,120
And so during that time period 
I, you know, when I was on the 

734
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:01,840
juice, I had a 495 bench. 
I don't know why I didn't put 

735
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,920
the 2 1/2's on there. 
I should have put it so I could 

736
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,440
say I had 500, but I had I had 
the five plate bench. 

737
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:15,240
I had a 785 squat and I those 
were my big lifts. 

738
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:18,920
I never deadlifted because I 
always had lower back issues so 

739
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,880
I didn't mess with it too much. 
But surprisingly off of steroids

740
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,680
my strength got up to but you 
have to understand my weight. 

741
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,800
I I carried around a lot of 
weight. 

742
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:37,720
So off of steroids, after 20-3 
years old at 24 through 40 years

743
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:44,160
old, I was weighing between 260 
and I got up to 309 when I 

744
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,920
competed in the police Olympics 
at 40 years old. 

745
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,560
So there's no doubt that the 
body weight helps your strength.

746
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,200
It also helped it. 
It totally also helped cushion 

747
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:01,960
my joints. 
So surprisingly, my weakest as 

748
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,040
far as strength goes is was 
always my bench because of my 

749
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,200
long arms. 
And surprisingly, I decided to 

750
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,360
do a bench press contest in the 
police Olympics. 

751
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,280
I had 40 years old in the 
Masters and I was 275 at the 

752
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,680
time. 
But the 275 weight class was 

753
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,120
pretty competitive. 
And so I knew that I could get 

754
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:26,120
my bench up higher if I just ate
like a pig and gained weight. 

755
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:32,640
And I got up to that 309 and I 
ended up benching 451 natural 

756
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,960
creatine. 
That's it. 

757
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,840
And I benched 451 with no bench 
shirt. 

758
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,000
And that's with a pause. 
So it was two O 5 kilograms, I 

759
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,360
believe. 
And yeah, I was happy. 

760
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,520
I was proud of that because 
there were guys on steroids in 

761
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,800
the police Olympics too. 
I mean, don't don't think that 

762
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,960
there aren't cops using weren't 
cops when it was illegal, still 

763
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,240
using steroids. 
And some of them were getting 

764
00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:59,840
TRT prescriptions as well back 
then. 

765
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:06,520
But yeah, and then and as well, 
my squat was I didn't go super 

766
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,280
heavy in terms of one Rep Max, 
but I would do sets of A1 plate,

767
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,080
two plates, three plates, 4 
plates, all with 10 reps, 5 

768
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:20,320
plates for 10 reps, and six 
plates for 8 to 10 reps And 

769
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,920
that's actually how I blew out 
my quads. 

770
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:28,400
I had a dual quadricep rupture. 
When I lost my balance on the 

771
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,400
way down, I was in a full spot 
position. 

772
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,840
Both quadriceps blew out. 
But. 

773
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,520
Yeah, man. 
And who knows how much of that 

774
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,880
was because of #1, some of the 
steroid, you know how the 

775
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,600
detriment to the steroids. 
And and I was doing carbs at the

776
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,720
time and I'm sure that my 
insulin, I was having insulin 

777
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:53,080
resistance. 
So who knows if I was getting 

778
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,880
the nutrients that I needed to 
be getting to do that heavy kind

779
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,480
of weight training that I was 
doing so? 

780
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,040
When you were natural and you 
were in that police Olympics and

781
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,040
you were pushing the calories 
high to get up to that higher 

782
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,880
weight class to to move more 
weight, Did you notice that even

783
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,240
naturally, just simply by 
consuming a ton of food and and 

784
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:16,200
pushing that higher body weight 
that you just had more joint 

785
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,000
pain and inflammation kind of by
default? 

786
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,840
Surprisingly so. 
My bench would. 

787
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,240
I would go in the gym in in my 
home I had a gym and I would go 

788
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,760
up to about four O 5. 
That's what I would normally 

789
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,120
only go up to, and that would be
a one Rep, one Rep maximum 

790
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,080
natural. 
But when I went up to three O 9,

791
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,280
my joint pain actually kind of 
went away. 

792
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:48,160
And my yeah, and I I felt like I
had this cushioning of fat in my

793
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:53,120
body that was allowing me to do 
that much more weight and I got 

794
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:58,600
super strong pretty quickly. 
I mean my my bench now, mind 

795
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,240
you. 
I also eliminated a bunch of 

796
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:01,960
exercises. 
I had a friend who was a power 

797
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,600
lifter. 
He told me, OK, you're 

798
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,880
overtraining shoulders, you're 
overtraining, you're doing 

799
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,760
bodybuilding movements like a 
power lifter. 

800
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,840
He goes, the the two don't go 
together. 

801
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,840
He goes, you got to cut out all 
of these things. 

802
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,120
You got to be lazy when you're 
doing bench press contest. 

803
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,200
So, you know, just do three days
a week, blah blah blah. 

804
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,000
And you know my reps were down 
and I was repping four O 5 

805
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,560
easily with, you know, whereas 
before it wasn't. 

806
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,480
So between the cutting out 
exercises and that extra body 

807
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:32,840
weight. 
But I'll tell you what. 

808
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,560
I was breathing heavy. 
I couldn't bend over to tie my 

809
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,120
shoes. 
It was difficult wiping my butt 

810
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,000
in the bathroom like, and I was 
only 309. 

811
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,880
I go, I don't know how people 
can pee like 400 lbs. 

812
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:50,240
And so immediately immediately 
after that I, you know, I I lost

813
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,360
the weight. 
I've never had a problem, you 

814
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,920
know, dropping weight, but still
I stayed between, like I said, I

815
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:03,480
stayed between 260 and and two 
75280 and throughout my career 

816
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,080
as a parole agent too, which, 
you know, it helped me in the 

817
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,920
field with some, with some of 
the guys I had to deal with. 

818
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,720
Yeah, I bet you see a lot of 
these old school bodybuilders, 

819
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:17,960
like they, since they're taking 
gear so aggressively in their 

820
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,720
competitive years, when they get
off it, they have to. 

821
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,120
I mean, they can't ever really 
get off it. 

822
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,160
Like they're always having to 
take, you know, somewhat of a 

823
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:26,640
dose. 
They can just simply maintain 

824
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,640
normal testosterone function at 
that point because their bodies 

825
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,280
just totally shut down natural 
production. 

826
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,360
But you see them downsize 
considerably, like they don't 

827
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,160
even look like bodybuilders half
the time. 

828
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,880
You know though, Robert, I 
wonder if that's true. 

829
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,720
I I wonder if you, if you worked
with somebody who said I want to

830
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,320
be natural, that if I even take 
TRT, it's going to have an 

831
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,480
effect. 
Like for me, you know, I've had 

832
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,560
people actually say and I and 
I'm not saying this to boost my 

833
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,040
ego, but, you know, in in a 
picture of me at 61 ago, oh, 

834
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,800
what's your TRT dose? 
And I'm like, I'm not taking TRT

835
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,400
And then some say I'm lying. 
And it's that's like the 

836
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,000
ultimate compliment. 
And I'm like, well, in my case, 

837
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:10,080
TRT would kill me. 
So, you know, so I'll talk about

838
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,920
the health thing real quickly 
too. 

839
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,480
I know we've been going for a 
while. 

840
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,920
But whatever you want to do 
actually, how do you want me to 

841
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,160
go from here? 
I'll I'll talk about we're. 

842
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:21,320
Just we're just having a 
conversation. 

843
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,440
Open dialogue, man. 
So yeah, just lean into it. 

844
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,360
So anyway, so yeah, to go to 
that point is why there's no way

845
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,600
that I'd be taking any kind of 
testosterone is because. 

846
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,680
So at in at 52, it's throughout 
my whole life. 

847
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,720
My first migraine ever started, 
started in my life at I was 

848
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:41,840
about 19 years old. 
And I Remember, Remember when it

849
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,080
happened and I was like damn, 
what is this, you know, it's 

850
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,920
felt like a sinus infection that
but that it was blurring my 

851
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,240
vision, it was causing head 
pain. 

852
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,280
Your smells were intensified 
just every it was, it was 

853
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,320
horrible. 
And I started getting them more 

854
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:06,160
often from 19/20/21 in my 20s, 
they started getting worse. 

855
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,880
In my 30s, they were getting 
worse. 

856
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,120
And what I was finding to be the
only thing that helped with them

857
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:17,000
at all because I had to go to a 
job every day, was to take like 

858
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,840
those Excedrin migraine 
medications. 

859
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:21,840
Basically, you know, they're 
basically an aspirin of some 

860
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,600
sort with caffeine in it, and 
those would tend to take the 

861
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,920
edge off. 
But I was experiencing one of 

862
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,360
those migraines probably two to 
three times a week in my 20s, 

863
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,280
and the same thing in my 30s and
in my 40s. 

864
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,680
They started intensifying to 
where I was almost getting them 

865
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,200
daily. 
Yeah, actually in my 40s I was 

866
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,960
getting them daily and I was 
taking basically Excedrin 

867
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,360
migraines every day, three to 
six. 

868
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,440
At one point I would take them 
every time I got the migraine. 

869
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,560
So if I took one, took three in 
the morning, and then the 

870
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,760
migraine came back, I would take
another three, another three, 

871
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,040
and then I was like, OK, I'm 
going to be killing my stomach 

872
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,000
lining if I keep doing this. 
So I just limited it to three a 

873
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,400
day, which is still bad. 
And I think this contributed to 

874
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,840
why my appendix ruptured when I 
was 52 years old. 

875
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:17,040
And so at 52, I was just getting
ready to retire. 

876
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,600
And so I had a month to go and I
got massive pain in my gut and 

877
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:26,560
I'm getting these migraines now.
Mind you, my diet is broccoli, 

878
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,560
cheese and chicken, I mean, but 
not cheese, broccoli, rice and 

879
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,480
chicken for the most part. 
I never was a dessert guy. 

880
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,880
I never was a, you know, a cake 
guy or whatever. 

881
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,520
Did I have one or, you know, a 
slice on occasion or, you know, 

882
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,280
once or twice a month? 
Once a month or twice a year? 

883
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,960
Yeah, I'll have a dessert or 
have stuff like that. 

884
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,120
But I really stuck to that type 
of diet. 

885
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,400
Vegetables, fruit, eggs, tuna. 
I was big on tuna. 

886
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,080
People at work knew I used to 
take cans of tuna and eat the 

887
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,040
tuna and eat the eggs and and 
then I would, But I was eating a

888
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,400
lot of vegetables and I was 
eating a lot of fruit. 

889
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,440
Had my bananas, all of that 
stuff. 

890
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:11,040
Total carb diet, carb load, 
creatine, and whatever carb 

891
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,840
drinks that they had out there 
before before workout. 

892
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,080
Anyways, at 52, I'm a month to 
retirement and I get this 

893
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,040
massive pain in my gut. 
I'm like, oh shoot, but it gets 

894
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:27,320
so bad that I'm literally 
sleeping at the side of the bed,

895
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,560
kneeling down like I do. 
Actually, when I have migraines 

896
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,240
I sleep that way. 
I would sleep on my knees in a 

897
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:38,600
praying position and I'm like 
this and and my wife was about a

898
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,200
week before retirement. 
So I I'm like this for like 2 

899
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:47,520
1/2 weeks, 2 weeks and yeah and 
I'm thinking Dang this whatever 

900
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,720
it is. 
And I thought it was just 

901
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:53,120
Constipation because I'd get on 
my bike inside my recumbent bike

902
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,280
pedal and I'd go to the bathroom
had bowel movement. 

903
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,280
I go, OK, I feel a little bit 
better, you know. 

904
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,640
And so I thought it was just 
really bad Constipation. 

905
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,640
And so finally breakdown go to 
the doctor. 

906
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,080
I didn't want to call in sick. 
And the reason I waited so long 

907
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:09,200
was I didn't want to call in 
sick. 

908
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,720
I had turned in my timesheet. 
We turn them in a month early. 

909
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:15,000
When you retire and you burn all
your sick time, you burn all of 

910
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:18,440
whatever get cashed out. 
So I didn't want to seem like I 

911
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,480
was screwing over my employer by
calling in sick when I don't 

912
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,600
have any time on the books to do
it, you know. 

913
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:30,200
And so I was just trying to be 
the quote dedicated employee and

914
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,280
and somewhat stubborn at the 
same time. 

915
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,080
So I'm not going to put it on 
being a nice guy, but I just 

916
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,920
didn't want to be appear in that
light, you know, for for 

917
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,520
whatever reason. 
And so I went to the doctor and 

918
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,600
my white blood cell count was 
out of control. 

919
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,760
And he said you need to go to 
emergency room, go to emergency 

920
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,240
room. 
They didn't even see it on the 

921
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,480
first pass, I think on the 
X-rays and they didn't know what

922
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,680
it was. 
And I'm riding in pain at that 

923
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,600
point. 
And then finally they come back 

924
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,000
and go, oh, you got to go to 
surgery right, right now. 

925
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:03,800
And so I go into surgery, come 
out of it and the team on duty 

926
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,800
was an oncology team, so they 
were the cancer guys. 

927
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:12,720
But the lead doctor surgeon had 
said he's been doing these 

928
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:16,320
appendix surgeries for appendix 
ruptures for over 30 years. 

929
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,640
He said it was one of the worst 
he saw and he goes, you're lucky

930
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,040
to be alive. 
They had to clean all of my 

931
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:29,360
organs by hand with antibiotics.
So they were in there fiddling 

932
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,240
around, he said. 
They also look for cancer 

933
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:33,080
because they're like, what's 
what causing this? 

934
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,160
And they almost had to take out 
part of my intestines. 

935
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:37,720
But fortunately we're able to 
save it. 

936
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,800
And so, yeah, I was basically 
scrubbed down with antibiotics 

937
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,080
internally and was on 
antibiotics for a week, you 

938
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,760
know, through IV and in the 
hospital. 

939
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,960
And I noticed during that time 
period, of course I'm getting 

940
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,880
migraines during the whole time,
but because of the morphine and 

941
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,200
stuff they put me on, it was 
kind of keeping it down. 

942
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,560
But when I got out of the 
hospital, I noticed that my 

943
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,840
blood pressure started rising. 
And so before long, my blood 

944
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,720
pressure was like really bad. 
I never had blood pressure 

945
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:11,440
issues. 
And it was like 180 over. 

946
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,760
You know, I'd go to the doctor, 
it was 180 / 90. 

947
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,640
And I was going to the 
neurologist trying to have them 

948
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,080
work on my migraines and figure 
something out. 

949
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,920
And they put me on Botox and 
they put me on nerve blocks, 

950
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,880
they put me on Topamax and all 
the other protocols. 

951
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,320
They had nothing work for that 
stuff. 

952
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,000
It was ridiculous. 
And my blood pressure keeps 

953
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:38,520
going up. 
I'm like, oh shit, so I so I'm 

954
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,720
like, that's when it got to the 
point where I was having the 

955
00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:43,880
migraines so bad. 
My blood pressure was so bad. 

956
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,760
I literally was on the side edge
of my bed one night where my 

957
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,800
migraine was super bad. 
And so I'm having to sleep 

958
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:52,800
kneeling down and I'm praying to
God, you know what? 

959
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:56,720
Either Take Me Out, you know, I 
was never suicidal, you know, I 

960
00:53:56,720 --> 00:53:59,200
would never take my life. 
But I was like either give me 

961
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,600
that big widow maker with this 
blood pressure or, you know, 

962
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,640
help me find a solution, please,
you know, please, God. 

963
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,760
And it was like, because I 
couldn't live like that. 

964
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,600
I between I was wondering 
whether the migraines were going

965
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,120
to kill me or the OR the blood 
pressure. 

966
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,680
I knew the migraines wouldn't 
kill me, but I knew that that 

967
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,840
blood pressure would. 
And I'm sure the migraines 

968
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,800
weren't helping the blood 
pressure. 

969
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:25,080
And so, believe it or not, the 
next day I found Angela Stanton 

970
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,880
online when I looked up 
electrolytes and migraines, and 

971
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,840
she was the one who started the 
whole thing with her Facebook 

972
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,320
page and she was helping people 
cure migraines using a ketogenic

973
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,080
diet. 
And then when when I had joined 

974
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,960
and was talking with her, she 
told me, hey, you may want to 

975
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,640
try Carnivore, because she's 
found Doctor Baker. 

976
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,040
And she said, you know, you work
out and Carnivore approach seems

977
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,680
to work well too. 
So yeah, that's where my journey

978
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,320
started. 
And it didn't. 

979
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,080
But it didn't solve and it 
didn't solve my blood pressure 

980
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,920
issues. 
My migraines started slowly 

981
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,320
going away. 
I wasn't one of these three 

982
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:03,800
months. 
You did this and boom, 

983
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,920
everything was healed. 
It took about a year where I was

984
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:08,520
down to like a migraine. 
A month. 

985
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,480
And then when I went carnivore, 
it really improved. 

986
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,840
When I started overeating, 
surprisingly that got rid of my 

987
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,120
migraines. 
Because I remember Doctor Baker 

988
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,200
saying, hey, if you're not 
getting cured on stuff, you know

989
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,040
what, eat more meat. 
And I thought, you know what? 

990
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,400
Let me eat more. 
So I was consuming like 4000 to 

991
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:36,320
5000 calories and you know of 
carnivore diet and it my 

992
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,960
migraines went away. 
So I was like hey this is cool. 

993
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,640
But then after a few years of 
that my my blood pressure still 

994
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,360
was not getting fixed. 
And Long story short, the way I 

995
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:53,440
fixed that was surprisingly, I 
ended up having to. 

996
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,400
I did a bunch of electrolyte 
experiments on myself. 

997
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:02,480
So I just isolated the variables
and thought, you know what, just

998
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,680
eat meat and water, isolate the 
variables. 

999
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,440
At the time, I was taking like 
400 milligrams of magnesium. 

1000
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,440
I was taking sodium all the time
because that was part of the 

1001
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,880
protocol for both just going to 
keto and carnivore and for the 

1002
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,080
migraines and that the Facebook 
page. 

1003
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,280
So I was taking probably about 5
to 10,000 milligrams of sodium a

1004
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,960
day. 
So I decided, OK, I'm just going

1005
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,280
to isolate each each of those 
things and so I just would salt 

1006
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,240
my food and then I had tried 
potassium and brought my 

1007
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:36,000
potassium levels up to up to 
10,000 in a month's period of 

1008
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,000
time. 
That didn't do anything for my 

1009
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,280
blood pressure. 
I tried to do the same with 

1010
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,200
magnesium, only lasted 2 weeks 
because I was crabbing my brains

1011
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,160
out. 
So at about 1500 milligrams I 

1012
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:50,840
was, I was like it was non-stop.
I was like I go, I can't do this

1013
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:55,600
anymore. 
And so I didn't get to the 

1014
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:02,080
sodium, but I had consulted with
a card, a cardiologist, who was 

1015
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,520
Keto guy. 
So I paid big money, you know, 

1016
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,880
saved up some money, paid big 
money to go to this 

1017
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,680
cardiologist. 
And I'm like, what do you 

1018
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,640
think's the problem? 
Gave him access to all my 

1019
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,080
medical stuff. 
And mind you, I got an enlarged 

1020
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,600
heart. 
I'm on a beta blocker. 

1021
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,640
That's the only medication I'm 
at on at the time. 

1022
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:26,000
They put me on, They tried to 
put me on a diuretic and that 

1023
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,440
didn't do anything. 
And so you know, our enlarged 

1024
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,880
heart and some aorta, probably 
some damage in there, but not 

1025
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,280
enough to where they were going 
to do any surgery. 

1026
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:39,760
And so when he looks at my 
stuff, just to remind you, this 

1027
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:45,520
is a carnivore keto guy and he 
advertises that he says well, 

1028
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,880
and I told them that this way of
eating got rid of my migraines. 

1029
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,200
He told me that I recommend that
you increase your carbohydrates 

1030
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,560
to 75 grams. 
And because of your cholesterol 

1031
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:01,480
level being the way it is that 
you take, you know, the the 

1032
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,440
carbohydrates will help fix 
that. 

1033
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,360
But I put you on a statin and an
additional blood pressure 

1034
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,640
medication. 
And so I looked at him and I 

1035
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,600
said when I wrote to you, I told
you I care about quality of 

1036
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,320
life, not quantity of life, that
I'll take no migraines a day for

1037
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,360
five years even if I die of a 
heart attack over migraines for 

1038
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,720
the next 20 years. 
You know not. 

1039
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,040
I'm not doing it. 
And even with that, he still 

1040
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,600
made that recommendation. 
I was kind of like, dude, you 

1041
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,600
you don't. 
You're not buying what you're 

1042
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,040
selling. 
You're selling. 

1043
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,640
Why couldn't you have given me 
some approach that was 

1044
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:40,000
ketogenic, knowing that, yes, it
may be riskier, but you already 

1045
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:41,920
said you want quality over 
quantity. 

1046
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:43,960
Here's my, you know, approach to
that. 

1047
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,360
No, he just his default was 
automatically, oh God, this 

1048
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:49,760
guy's going to have a heart 
attack. 

1049
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:51,720
What do I do with a normal 
person? 

1050
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,960
I I'll put him on a statin, put 
him on, you know, the typical 

1051
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,560
playbook that you would do with 
a conventional Dr. And I was 

1052
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,040
really disappointed. 
So I get to. 

1053
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,160
And now I'm at the level. 
And I was also disappointed 

1054
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,240
because the guy didn't know that
potassium had a lot of, I mean 

1055
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,320
that meat had a lot of potassium
because I had to tell him that. 

1056
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,000
And then he kind of wrote me 
back and said, Oh yeah, I stand 

1057
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,520
corrected. 
Meat does have a lot of 

1058
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,000
potassium because I had asked 
him a simple question. 

1059
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,360
I said, does can external 
electrolytes, let's say you have

1060
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,840
kidney damage from my high blood
pressure in all these years, 

1061
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,720
eight years of it. 
Can electrolytes externally have

1062
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,480
a harder time being processed by
the kidneys than electrolytes 

1063
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,600
that come from the food? 
And he goes, I don't know, he 

1064
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,120
goes, I don't think so. 
And every doctor I asked that 

1065
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,000
question, they didn't know the 
answer to that. 

1066
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:46,040
And so my experiment was, you 
know, what with sodium, Let me 

1067
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,080
I'm just salting my food right 
now. 

1068
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:52,000
Let me do the experiments. 
With this, I went up to 10,000 

1069
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,600
milligrams of sodium again, and 
I almost had AI had 200 / 100 

1070
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:58,480
blood pressure for a week 
straight. 

1071
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,600
So I go, OK, I'm not doing that 
experiment anymore because I'm 

1072
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:05,160
going to blow a gasket. 
And so I completely got rid of 

1073
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:06,880
the sodium. 
I go, what do I do at this 

1074
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,800
point? 
I'm I'm only salting my food. 

1075
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,320
It's not, it's not much. 
So I got completely rid of the 

1076
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:17,280
sodium and within three days my 
sodium and my blood pressure 

1077
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,160
went down to normal. 
Three days after eight years. 

1078
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:25,440
And So what would my opinion be 
is that my kidneys obviously 

1079
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:29,560
were damaged, and those small 
tiny arteries and capillaries in

1080
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:33,160
there probably just could not 
process any external 

1081
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,120
electrolytes. 
And so my diet obviously now 

1082
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,080
contains no electrolytes other 
than what's in the food. 

1083
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:44,000
And so I don't use any sodium, I
don't use any magnesium, I don't

1084
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,680
use any supplements at all, and 
I'm just eating pretty much meat

1085
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:52,320
and water and keep ketogenic 
macros. 

1086
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,400
So I do that. 
And I've had to experiment with 

1087
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,240
that because my overeating of 
the protein caused my blood 

1088
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,760
sugar to start getting out of 
control to where it was. 

1089
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:08,360
My fasting would be anywhere 
between 100 and like 1/22 and my

1090
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,680
levels would stay there during 
the day. 

1091
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,800
So I was getting this sort of 
insulin resistance from too much

1092
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:20,040
protein and my experiments with 
lowering the fat down below like

1093
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:27,200
68% the 1:00 to 1:00 where I was
going at 64 to 68% fat and 

1094
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,080
that's you know as you well know
that's lower than one to one and

1095
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,520
so that ended up kind of 
damaging. 

1096
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:38,680
So now I've gone back to a whole
different level and doing a 

1097
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,560
little bit more research and 
following, you know, Jeff 

1098
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:45,520
Vollick and Steven Finney's 
recommendations with 

1099
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:51,600
maintaining, trying to stay in 
ketosis by having .6g of protein

1100
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,720
per lean pound of weight. 
You know, that would give me, 

1101
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:57,760
you know, you know, the amounts 
of protein. 

1102
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,920
For my weight, I'm 225 now, my 
lean body mass, I kind of 

1103
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,160
figured to be about 180 and that
would put me at a Max of 180 

1104
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,880
grams of protein. 
And so right now I'm I'm doing 

1105
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:14,080
about 130 grams. 
Keep my fat at, you know, 80%, 

1106
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:19,480
eighty, 1% in order to drive 
that to blood sugar down and get

1107
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,080
those ketones up. 
So have you noticed a pretty big

1108
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:23,880
difference in swabbing at those 
micros? 

1109
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,760
Like if your blood sugar levels 
dropped on average. 

1110
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,480
Yeah, not immediately, 'cause 
you know it. 

1111
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,760
It would. 
It also proved to me is at first

1112
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,680
I started continuing to eat like
4000 calories. 

1113
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:38,000
And so I was taking in like 400 
grams of fat and thought, OK, 

1114
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,680
I'll really drive that down and 
I'll do, I'll go extreme, 'cause

1115
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,880
I don't do anything normal to my
detriment. 

1116
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,200
But but it helps, like with, you
know, clients and stuff that I 

1117
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,320
work with too, 'cause I can say,
well, I did this and don't do 

1118
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,800
it, but I was taking 100 grams 
of protein. 

1119
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,960
I I worked it out to my lowest 
level of protein would be like 

1120
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:06,760
108g and I went down 100 grams 
of protein and 400 grams of fat.

1121
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,120
My blood sugar was still around 
122. 

1122
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,920
Now I'm like, why is that? 
And there's two possible things 

1123
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,080
and you may may go ahead and 
chime in. 

1124
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:23,480
One is that it can take 
calories, whether they're fat or

1125
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,880
protein, And if it's if you're 
in an excess, it can still turn 

1126
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,640
it into It can turn it into 
blood sugar for energy, 

1127
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,520
especially if you're in excess. 
And I noticed it wasn't until I 

1128
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:40,440
brought my calories down to 
whatever my caloric intake 

1129
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,560
should be based upon, You know, 
a reference range. 

1130
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,880
You know when you do a calorie, 
when you, you know, figure out 

1131
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,960
one of those calorie meters that
you get on the Internet and plug

1132
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,800
your numbers in. 
My caloric needs would be 

1133
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:59,880
between 2800 and 3200 calories. 
So anything after that is 

1134
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,840
obviously excessive calories 
because you know it's not not 

1135
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,680
for what I'm putting out there 
right now and not what I'm doing

1136
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:11,000
working out workout wise either.
So some of that obviously the 

1137
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,760
protein wasn't necessarily 
driving it, but the calories in 

1138
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,080
general might have been driving 
it. 

1139
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:24,040
So I reduced those calories to, 
you know to around 3500 and by 

1140
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:29,120
and the fat was about 85% and 
still I was still getting 

1141
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:30,760
readings kind of all over the 
place. 

1142
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,640
But also my digestion, I was 
still getting diarrhea quite 

1143
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,080
often. 
So with the digestion being off,

1144
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,480
my experiment was kind of off 
because the digestion itself 

1145
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,280
could be causing my blood sugar,
you know, to be volatile as 

1146
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,680
well. 
So what is my opinion? 

1147
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:51,040
What do I think right now that 
my digestion is kind of more 

1148
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,760
normalized? 
I'm getting more solid, you 

1149
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:58,320
know, bowel movements. 
And so I'm like, I I'm at like 

1150
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:04,040
130 grams of protein and about 
260 grams of fat, which puts me 

1151
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,560
around 3000 calories. 
And I'm noticing, OK, I'm 

1152
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,600
getting a fasting blood sugar of
95 in the morning. 

1153
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,880
So it is driving it down. 
It's just a slow price. 

1154
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,600
It's not, as you know, it's not 
a fast process. 

1155
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:21,640
It's not as fast a process as 
when you go from carbs to keto. 

1156
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:26,720
And my personal belief on that 
is that because when you cut out

1157
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:30,600
the carbs and you go to keto, 
your body is not really 

1158
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,600
efficient at but like you said, 
proteins, you know that's 

1159
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:37,360
gluconeogenesis, it's not 
efficient process and so it's 

1160
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,280
looking for energy somewhere. 
So it automatically goes to that

1161
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:46,480
fat for energy much quicker than
if I became acclimated to using 

1162
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,640
protein as energy. 
How hard is it for my body which

1163
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,600
is going, you know what, I'd 
rather have the blood sugar. 

1164
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,440
I'd rather have that than the 
ketones for energy. 

1165
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,520
And I know how to do it now 
pretty efficiently, using 

1166
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,920
gluconeogenesis. 
Whenever he starts working out, 

1167
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,880
whenever he brings that protein.
And I'll just take it, turn it 

1168
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,720
the blood sugar. 
And I utilize it at that point. 

1169
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,760
And I do notice because I do 
take measurements before my 

1170
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,880
workout and after my workout, 
and I can see when it's using 

1171
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,360
blood sugar as opposed to using 
ketones, and it's pretty 

1172
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,120
interesting to watch. 
So but yeah, it's much harder, 

1173
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,840
it's much harder to regulate it 
once your body is starting to 

1174
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:27,840
use that, you know the protein 
as as a blood sugar and using 

1175
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,000
that to fuel especially your 
workouts. 

1176
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,240
And so it's it's a lot harder 
for people to work out somebody,

1177
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:36,720
you and me, you in particular 
now too would have a really hard

1178
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,040
time if you got into that realm 
because you almost have to be 

1179
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:45,680
sedentary for you to to make 
that switch happen a lot faster.

1180
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:49,560
But because you're working out, 
you're also taxing the system to

1181
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,320
where it needs the energy. 
And so it's going to go for the 

1182
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,160
quickest form it can. 
And if that biological memory is

1183
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:59,080
going after that protein, you 
really have to drive that 

1184
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,440
protein level down so that it 
stops doing that. 

1185
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,800
So yeah, it's a it's a tricky 
cut, you know, it's a tricky 

1186
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,480
situation to have. 
Yeah. 

1187
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:09,720
And there's, I mean, there's 
there's been times where I've 

1188
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,120
really pushed my protein up. 
There's times where I've pushed 

1189
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,720
my protein down quite a bit. 
And I find like pros and cons to

1190
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,240
each, all within the context of 
being indefatted at the state. 

1191
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,520
And like, right now that I'm in 
the building phase, like my 

1192
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,320
protein is pretty high. 
Like I'm consistently over 250 

1193
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:28,760
grams a day, but my fat is also 
like 300 and 5400 grams of fat a

1194
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,080
day. 
So relative to protein, from a 

1195
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,440
total macronutrient standpoint, 
it's still the obvious majority 

1196
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,320
there. 
But yeah, I think there's 

1197
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,360
definitely a point of 
diminishing returns when your 

1198
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:42,200
fat levels are too low and your 
protein is too high, especially 

1199
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:44,640
in the context of a pretty 
aggressive surplus. 

1200
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,200
I mean, like it's just really 
going to hinder one's ability to

1201
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,080
optimize for fat metabolism and 
it's just the way it's going to 

1202
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,480
work. 
And and I've been following your

1203
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,880
stuff too and that still puts 
you I didn't think I don't think

1204
01:07:55,880 --> 01:08:00,440
I calculated that still puts you
around 75% fat which which keeps

1205
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,840
you in a pretty good level of 
maintaining ketosis. 

1206
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,520
And you're obviously as you're 
reading show you're your blood 

1207
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,560
sugar is pretty consistent and 
your and your ketone levels are 

1208
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,960
still there. 
So I, I, you know it's just I 

1209
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:13,920
didn't take mine all during that
time period. 

1210
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,120
I started to go to really high 
protein. 

1211
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:20,319
And so when I finally did I had 
noticed the reason I did do that

1212
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:23,399
or change or figure that out is 
because all of a sudden I was 

1213
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:26,720
getting tired like I was when I 
was on carbs like hypoglycemic 

1214
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,880
and I'm like that's weird. 
I just had a meal and 

1215
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,520
everything. 
Why am I getting this fatigue? 

1216
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:36,279
And I took my levels and my 
blood sugar was high and my it 

1217
01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:38,279
was high. 
And then it was when I was 

1218
01:08:38,279 --> 01:08:42,040
taking them later, it was going 
down lower and there was just so

1219
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:46,240
much whatever, you know, there 
was just so much variability. 

1220
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,720
And then I noticed that my, I 
had no ketone levels. 

1221
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:54,720
It was like either low or no, 
you know, no level, whatever 

1222
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,479
that shows in there. 
I think it was low. 

1223
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,479
Yeah, I wasn't gaining any 
ketone, ketone level. 

1224
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,960
And so I started to take it more
throughout the day. 

1225
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:08,920
And then I developed a, you 
know, a routine where I would 

1226
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:13,080
take it fasting and then I would
take it before my first meal and

1227
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:14,840
then I would take it three hours
after. 

1228
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,800
Because you know that three to 
four hours it takes to digest 

1229
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:19,840
your food, see what the levels 
were. 

1230
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:23,359
Then again after, before, and 
after my next meal. 

1231
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:26,479
I'm eating three meals a day, 
and then again before and after 

1232
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,439
my dinner. 
And so I was noticing the 

1233
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,359
switches in it. 
And then I would also take it 

1234
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:35,439
before and after a workout to 
see what was happening. 

1235
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,279
So I was, I've been doing the 
last six months, a lot of 

1236
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:41,359
experiments with that. 
And actually I helped the client

1237
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,439
figure hers out really fast 
because she had that where she 

1238
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:49,800
was basically not sleeping and 
she was getting tired and taking

1239
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,399
a nap during the day. 
But she was super easy. 

1240
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:54,480
She had been carnivore for like 
5 or six years. 

1241
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,760
So I just told her I gave, hey, 
you willing to poke your finger 

1242
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,640
a bunch of times And she was a 
two meal a day person. 

1243
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:03,040
She was like, Yep, I want to do 
whatever it takes. 

1244
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:04,480
I go, OK, this is what we're 
going to do. 

1245
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:08,560
And we did that. 
She sure enough, I have the data

1246
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:09,960
in front of me. 
I'm looking at it. 

1247
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:14,160
I'm like, oh wow, yeah, your 
protein levels are way too high.

1248
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,960
And let's go by Voelex numbers, 
your highest amount of protein. 

1249
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,200
She was like 100 lbs lean and so
I was like, you shouldn't be 

1250
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:23,680
eating more than 100 grams. 
We'll try not eating more than 

1251
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:27,280
100 grams of protein and bring 
your bring your fat levels up to

1252
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:32,080
between 79 and 81%. 
Dude, after two weeks of that 

1253
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:39,760
week 3, she's not tired, she's 
sleeping and her ketone levels 

1254
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:45,080
and her GKI were perfect levels.
So she really, I adjusted well 

1255
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:46,480
because she didn't have the 
diarrhea. 

1256
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:49,480
I had diarrhea throughout and 
she didn't get the diarrhea from

1257
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:51,880
going up higher in the fat. 
And she was like, man, I didn't 

1258
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:53,240
realize I was that far out of 
whack. 

1259
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:57,200
And I was like, it was such an 
easy fix when you have the data,

1260
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:02,160
otherwise it's, you know, as you
know, coaching or whatever, it 

1261
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:04,680
can be a stab in the dark. 
I mean, you don't know people 

1262
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,240
are doing at home and especially
if they don't take their 

1263
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:10,240
numbers, you can't get to read 
it and say, Nah, I don't think 

1264
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,360
you're doing that. 
You know the numbers aren't 

1265
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:14,600
showing that you're doing that. 
You know so. 

1266
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:18,120
Yeah, I'm all about the data. 
Like, I feel like there's 

1267
01:11:18,440 --> 01:11:20,640
there's definitely a benefit to 
being able to eat intuitively 

1268
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:22,320
and not obsess and fixate over 
it. 

1269
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:25,480
But if there's like a specific 
problem you're trying to solve 

1270
01:11:25,480 --> 01:11:27,800
and you're doing yourself a 
massive disservice, but not just

1271
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,040
controlling the variables that 
you can and and capturing that 

1272
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,120
data and then kind of tweaking 
one thing at a time, like to not

1273
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:37,360
do that would just be like a 
total shot in the dark. 

1274
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,440
And I I'm all about being 
efficient with things and being,

1275
01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:42,560
you know, playing darts in the 
dark is not efficient at all. 

1276
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,000
Yeah, 100% hundred. 
I'm agree with you. 

1277
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:48,920
As some people say it's 
obsessive. 

1278
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:52,080
And I I said opposite. 
I said when I got away from it. 

1279
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:55,760
I think it's something that, 
yes, intuitive eating is what 

1280
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,560
you want to gravitate to. 
My son does it really, really 

1281
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,880
well, but he's also 28 years 
old. 

1282
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:05,320
You yourself, also young, you 
can't afford a little 

1283
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,520
discrepancy one way or another 
and it's probably not going to 

1284
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,560
affect you. 
If you've been damaged 

1285
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,840
metabolically, you can't afford 
that. 

1286
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,800
You know you just can't. 
When you go off into a little 

1287
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:21,680
bit of a ditch detriment in one 
area, nutritionally it can. 

1288
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,400
It can throw off your sleep or 
whatever. 

1289
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,640
I mean, somebody at 28 years old
has a lot more metabolic 

1290
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,560
flexibility and that's a great 
term everybody uses. 

1291
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:33,560
But they do. 
They have more metabolic 

1292
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:37,400
flexibility and so my son can 
stay between, he can do a higher

1293
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:42,680
protein and stay between 68 and 
72% fat without measuring, you 

1294
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:44,560
know. 
But he still even even he 

1295
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,040
measures his food. 
And I'll tell you another props 

1296
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,560
for you is he uses your keto 
bricks quite a bit. 

1297
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,760
My wife does as well. 
I I like them when I was doing 

1298
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:57,440
Keto before, but now I just, you
know, do all meat, organ meat 

1299
01:12:57,440 --> 01:13:01,680
and fat. 
But total props to that product 

1300
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:05,160
because yeah, he, he played 
professional independent League 

1301
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:08,600
Baseball for Dang since he was 
22. 

1302
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:12,000
He's 2028 now. 
He just stopped at six years and

1303
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,840
his that brick was a big part of
him on road trips or you know, 

1304
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,040
when there were only restaurants
around that he couldn't eat the 

1305
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,880
food and he was just boom, he 
was packing those. 

1306
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:26,000
He was packing the bricks. 
Yeah, no, it works, right. 

1307
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:30,400
And especially the one you 
worked with with Mark Bell who 

1308
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,600
is in West Sacramento, which is 
right on the corner from me. 

1309
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,080
So that's like 45 minutes. 
But my wife would go and get his

1310
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:40,160
products over there. 
But she ordered that through you

1311
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:45,360
the, the, the that brownie 
batter bricks and they just are 

1312
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:47,320
delighted with that. 
Just wanted to tell you that's 

1313
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,360
that's been a great product and 
and and for people who do this 

1314
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:56,040
stuff, keto or not keto, it's, 
you know it's a good pretty good

1315
01:13:56,480 --> 01:14:00,440
food to eat and give you a meal.
It's a meal, so yeah. 

1316
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,320
Yeah, I mean I'm all for you 
know, streamlined things making 

1317
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:05,760
it simple like I I tell people 
first and foremost always 

1318
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:07,960
prioritize, you know, wholesome 
single ingredient, nutrient 

1319
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,880
dense animal based foods. 
But there's definitely times 

1320
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:12,120
where you don't have those 
available. 

1321
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:15,760
So you might as well have a a 
good salt option to replace it 

1322
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,240
with and you're not going to 
find that in the fast food 

1323
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,000
chain. 
So having a brick, having some 

1324
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,800
good, you know, cured meats or 
something like that to to, you 

1325
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,680
know, bridge that gap. 
I mean, I eat 1:00 every single 

1326
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,920
day, but I've also got a pretty 
high caloric threshold too. 

1327
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,400
So I'm eating shoot man right 
now. 

1328
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,360
Like 4 thousand 5500 calories a 
day, somewhere in that ballpark.

1329
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,800
I'm just trying to push that 
envelope and put as much lean 

1330
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,880
size on as I can because, you 
know, I don't have the height 

1331
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:42,520
gene that you do. 
I've got. 

1332
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,560
I've got to build up my frame to
put that weight on. 

1333
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:47,640
No. 
And the amount of time you were 

1334
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:51,040
in a deficit, I mean your body's
got to be screaming for a 

1335
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,560
nutrients right now. 
So I mean, yeah, that's a long 

1336
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:56,600
time. 
You did the shows how many you 

1337
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,320
did, being natural, but that's a
testament. 

1338
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:03,360
What you're doing is not just, 
you know, I mean, it's obviously

1339
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:07,360
a testament to your own, your 
own personality, but it's also a

1340
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:09,640
testament to what keto can do. 
Yeah. 

1341
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,480
Totally ketogenic and and I 
hate, I hate when people tell 

1342
01:15:13,480 --> 01:15:16,520
me, Oh yeah I'm doing keto. 
And to them, it's a food. 

1343
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:22,120
And I'm like, keto is it's a, 
it's a it's a state, it's not a 

1344
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,840
food. 
And you've stuck with that. 

1345
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,440
And that's what I really like, 
'cause like Thomas De Lauer, I 

1346
01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:31,720
listened to him on a podcast 
where he was talking to, oh, if 

1347
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:35,720
it was Mark Bell or somebody 
else, but he had Dom Dagnostino 

1348
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:36,640
on there as well. 
Yeah, it. 

1349
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:38,080
Was a good podcast. 
Listen to that one. 

1350
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:41,320
Too. 
Yeah, and but he was like he 

1351
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:44,880
shield away from the whole keto 
thing because there were so many

1352
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,000
people in the community that 
were producing all these keto 

1353
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,800
foods that were horrible and 
they were saying keto and then 

1354
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:51,920
they couldn't answer the simple 
question, well, how come that 

1355
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:53,480
doesn't work with me and 
everything else? 

1356
01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:59,240
I'm thinking you can't dismiss a
whole a thing that is really 

1357
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,920
useful. 
Why not educate people on 

1358
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:06,520
ketogenic not being a food but a
state, you know that you get in 

1359
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,840
and that ketogenic state is what
helps neurological issues and 

1360
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:13,360
cancer and all of these things 
that it does. 

1361
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,440
But there's a carnivore approach
to that as well and that's what 

1362
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:18,640
I'm doing. 
It's, you know, getting your 

1363
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:23,040
macros and getting your just by 
eating meat and fat to that, you

1364
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:30,240
know, 75 to 80% range or in some
cases 3 to 1 fat to protein and 

1365
01:16:30,480 --> 01:16:32,200
you're just eating animal based 
foods. 

1366
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:36,200
And that's kind of what the PKD 
diet for you know that Sophia, 

1367
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:40,000
Clemens and the Hungry Institute
do regarding healing people. 

1368
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,400
They're doing a carnivore diet 
in the ketogenic state using 

1369
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:46,000
organ beats. 
I mean it's the state of keto 

1370
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,720
that is what is important in 
everything, including the 

1371
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:51,760
bodybuilding. 
And I think that's the area that

1372
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,560
you stuck with and been kind of 
like, no, I'm not going to let 

1373
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,720
them scare me off by all these 
people coming around saying keto

1374
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,040
doesn't work, I tried keto 
doesn't work. 

1375
01:17:00,440 --> 01:17:03,360
It's you've kind of taken the 
approach of you're either going 

1376
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:06,120
to try and listen to me or 
you're going to ignore what I 

1377
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:07,960
have to say and I'm not going to
argue with you. 

1378
01:17:08,440 --> 01:17:10,720
And it's it's, it's really a 
good approach. 

1379
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:15,640
I'm more argumentative. 
You're more, you know what? 

1380
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:17,960
They're they're going to come to
me because they're going to 

1381
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:20,640
finally realize that whatever 
they're doing is not working. 

1382
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:22,960
And then they're going to 
finally ask me instead of 

1383
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,200
telling me. 
And honestly, I I give you a 

1384
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:29,360
props for doing that. 
That's that's a really good 

1385
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,600
mindset to have. 
Especially man, I feel like in 

1386
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,800
bodybuilding, like because I did
the whole traditional 

1387
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,800
bodybuilding diets and I did all
kinds of different diets. 

1388
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,680
I was always high carb, high 
protein, low fat. 

1389
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,760
And I mean, I've done them all. 
And it's like there's so much 

1390
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,440
benefit from a fat adapted state
when you're competing, when 

1391
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:51,520
you're trying to, you know, keep
your hormones stable, keep your 

1392
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,680
metabolism up regulated, keep 
your caloric threshold higher, 

1393
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,720
have energy to train and perform
while in a caloric deficit. 

1394
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,920
So I feel like there's so much 
benefit to be had, you know, 

1395
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,800
competing especially as a 
natural in a ketogenic state and

1396
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:07,640
that has not really seen the 
light of day yet in most 

1397
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:09,760
bodybuilding circles. 
Like they're aware of the term 

1398
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:12,760
keto, but to them keto is just 
simply low carb. 

1399
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:15,160
It doesn't really. 
I didn't really go much beyond 

1400
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:16,640
that. 
And I feel like I'm trying to 

1401
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,560
bridge that gap because I think 
there's there's so much like 

1402
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:23,160
bodybuilding in its purest form 
can be an incredibly healthy 

1403
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:27,120
sport, but they take it to a 
very unhealthy place and most 

1404
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:29,520
competitors are plagued with 
disordered eating. 

1405
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,480
I don't really like the whole 
flexible dieting approach 

1406
01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:34,440
because it just kind of, you 
know, emphasizes that you can 

1407
01:18:34,440 --> 01:18:36,640
get lean while eating junk food 
in a lot of ways. 

1408
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,040
And I don't think that's a good 
message. 

1409
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:41,600
But I think a few people, if 
people just simply ate real 

1410
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:45,360
quality foods, high fats and 
proteins and, you know, 

1411
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:47,640
performed at a high level, like,
who can argue that? 

1412
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:51,760
Well, and and the other point, 
and that's a good point, but the

1413
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:57,360
other point too as well is not 
not only do they not understand 

1414
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:02,680
and they, you know, they look it
as low carb, but they're afraid 

1415
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:06,920
of that transition. 
Because you and I both know if 

1416
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,520
they've been doing this a long 
time with carbs that almost the 

1417
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,040
longer you've been doing it and 
the more intensive you've been 

1418
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:16,040
doing bodybuilding or 
weightlifting that that maybe 

1419
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:19,800
one month transition could 
really turn into six months to a

1420
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:23,480
year before you start seeing the
strength gains and everything 

1421
01:19:23,480 --> 01:19:25,000
else. 
And nobody wants to do that, you

1422
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:25,880
know? 
Totally. 

1423
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,280
It's not. 
They're impatient and the longer

1424
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:32,280
they continue see him from my 
son it was easy because he 

1425
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,440
started with me when I was 
started doing all this stuff 

1426
01:19:34,440 --> 01:19:37,960
that so he was 2122, just like 
you. 

1427
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:41,040
You started pretty early, but 
you get a guy who's been doing a

1428
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:44,240
carb diet, you know, he's 30 
years old and then you tell him,

1429
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,720
yeah, just take a year off from 
your bodybuilding just so that 

1430
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:51,280
you can get into a a real 
ketogenic state where your 

1431
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:55,200
glycogen stores are acting just 
like carbohydrates would, except

1432
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:59,800
now with a fat induced diet, 
they don't want to do that. 

1433
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:02,360
You know what I mean? 
It scares them because that that

1434
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:06,880
strength weakening, that they're
natural testosterone going down,

1435
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,440
all of that stuff is like, Oh my
God, and the muscles, they're 

1436
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:13,880
just, you know, people don't 
have the intestinal fortitude to

1437
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,320
push that out. 
And so it's takes a special 

1438
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:22,040
person to go that route. 
But I agree with you 100% that 

1439
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:24,280
that's the future. 
A bodybuilding. 

1440
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:27,160
It's as far as natural 
bodybuilding goes that's. 

1441
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,160
And you know what? 
I I would, I would like to say 

1442
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:34,600
too I'd be curious to follow 
somebody who does that diet 

1443
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,640
while doing steroids. 
So, you know, wonder if it would

1444
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,520
it would be a healthier approach
than the approach that they're 

1445
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:44,680
taking right now. 
You know what I mean, 100. 

1446
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:47,960
Percent and like the people. 
I mean like bodybuilding, like 

1447
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:49,520
people are going to pay to see 
the freaks. 

1448
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,080
I mean like the the Mr. Olympia 
competition is the Arnold 

1449
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:55,560
classic, like that's where all 
the the eyes are at because they

1450
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:59,440
want to see the £300 shredded 
guys that obviously aren't 

1451
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:01,600
achieving that naturally. 
But I feel like, you know if 

1452
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,840
they went the right of doing it 
from a fat based diet, they 

1453
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:06,920
could mitigate a lot of the risk
they're experiencing. 

1454
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:10,920
And you know the the reason that
there's not getting much 

1455
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,560
limelight, keto's not getting 
much limelight within the 

1456
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:16,920
bodybuilding space is because 
none of these elite level, you 

1457
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,000
know, juiced up pros are doing 
it. 

1458
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:20,960
But there's no reason they 
couldn't do it. 

1459
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:23,680
They just haven't gone that 
route because it's so far from 

1460
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:25,520
their norm. 
But I don't see any reason why 

1461
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:29,080
they would not benefit from it. 
And you'd have to wonder if 

1462
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:33,960
that, you know, high fat diet 
while you're on the juice is is 

1463
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,120
helping to feed those hormones 
to the point where if you got 

1464
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:41,520
off the juice that they're able 
to kick in because they, you 

1465
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,040
know, because they have that 
stimulus already. 

1466
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:46,920
I mean, there's so much 
experimentation that people 

1467
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,680
could do in that realm that you 
know. 

1468
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,000
Now a lot of them are, you know 
they're doing the Super 

1469
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,160
physiological external doses of 
insulin to grow as well. 

1470
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:59,200
Yeah. 
So that would not be that would 

1471
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:00,640
be kind of kind of productive 
there. 

1472
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:02,720
But there's there's lots of 
different ways of skinny cat 

1473
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:05,520
they wouldn't need to that they 
they could use other anabolic 

1474
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:09,080
agents besides insulin. 
That that came in after my time.

1475
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:11,400
What? 
That was just coming in when I 

1476
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:14,640
was going out. 
What was popular though was the 

1477
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,240
the thyroid. 
People were using thyroid, which

1478
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:20,240
was really dangerous 'cause I 
knew two guys. 

1479
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:23,000
We used to call them the Anadrol
brothers. 

1480
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:28,480
They were doing so much thyroid,
I guess that finally when they 

1481
01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:31,680
came off they had to continue 
thyroid for the rest of their 

1482
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,080
life 'cause their thyroid was 
completely demolished. 

1483
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,680
So yeah, that that ruined a lot 
of things. 

1484
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:40,720
But I remember the drugs I 
remember back then were 

1485
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:46,960
Winstrol, Winstrol V equipoise, 
which is a horse, testosterone, 

1486
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:51,960
testosterone, cyponates, 
testosterone and anthate, the 

1487
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,040
Winstrol, they were water based 
drugs. 

1488
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:56,920
So people took them basically 
when they were cutting up for a 

1489
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,120
show. 
Anavar was another drug that 

1490
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,880
actually powerlifters used 
because it didn't increase your 

1491
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:04,960
weight, but it increased your 
strength substantially. 

1492
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:09,800
Obviously Diana Ball was big, 
they had an injectable Diana 

1493
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:11,040
Ball. 
They had a thing called 

1494
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:14,720
parabolin which I think is the 
grandfather to the trend balloon

1495
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:21,640
and those were the cycles that I
remember and and that I had 

1496
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,760
done, but not all at the same 
time. 

1497
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:29,080
So it will be, you know, you did
like a testosterone base and 

1498
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:32,200
then an oral based drug and then
you did something else, another 

1499
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:34,800
cycle. 
You were trying to confuse the 

1500
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:38,440
the thing but it was you know, 
it was bro science back then. 

1501
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:40,640
There were no doctors dealing 
with it at all. 

1502
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:45,600
And frankly, like my friend Bill
Canberra, who was that 

1503
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:49,560
bodybuilder I told you about, he
would get calls from doctors who

1504
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,080
were testifying in court where 
they were asking him how do 

1505
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,880
these things function so that 
they could testify on the stand 

1506
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:58,200
so they didn't even know. 
So they were talking to 

1507
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:02,000
bodybuilders to find out, hey, 
how does this, you know, what 

1508
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,440
kind of reaction? 
Oh, bodybuilders are definitely 

1509
01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:07,320
the on the cutting edge of a lot
of human experimentation. 

1510
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:09,960
I mean a lot of lot of the stuff
that's you know out in the 

1511
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,560
public eye now from like a 
medical standpoint was born in 

1512
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,360
the gym without a doubt you 
know. 

1513
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:19,520
So I I think being on the 
cutting edges is exciting for 

1514
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:21,440
sure. 
But it's also you know like 

1515
01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:25,440
you're you're experimenting and 
often times it can can go astray

1516
01:24:25,440 --> 01:24:27,960
and have some very negative 
consequences. 

1517
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,040
But yeah, I think, you know, 
bodybuilders as a whole being 

1518
01:24:31,440 --> 01:24:34,400
extremists in nature. 
Like you can learn a lot about 

1519
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,840
what causes what to happen 
physiologically when it comes to

1520
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:40,720
the different inputs. 
So it's it's super interesting 

1521
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:42,920
stuff. 
I'm hopeful that I can do the 

1522
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,840
same thing on the other end of 
the spectrum from a natural 

1523
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:48,200
ketogenic standpoint and that 
becomes more paramount as as 

1524
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,720
time goes on. 
But time will tell, man. 

1525
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:52,760
Yeah. 
And I'm trying to do it as an 

1526
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:55,840
older guy so that people can 
see, OK, can you do this at 60 

1527
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:57,680
years old? 
Can you do this in your 50s? 

1528
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,440
You know, and can you make the 
changes? 

1529
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:02,600
Because I'm finally at a point 
because I actually had to reduce

1530
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:07,040
my workout significantly because
part of my healing was to to 

1531
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:09,840
reduce the inflammation in my 
CNS. 

1532
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:13,480
And I would notice that if I did
a heavyweight training session 

1533
01:25:13,480 --> 01:25:16,800
the next day I would get I get 
pain coming up my, you know, my 

1534
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:20,600
SCAP right up into my neck which
would turn into a headache. 

1535
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,720
And so I had to slowly reduce to
just band workouts only three 

1536
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:27,560
times a week. 
And then finally, I'm now at a 

1537
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:31,840
point where my blood pressure 
was fixed and my CNS stuff is 

1538
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:35,480
pretty much fixed and I'm able 
to do half hour heavy workouts 

1539
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:39,920
every other day and doing split 
body parts and now starting to 

1540
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:43,000
make gains that are pretty 
significant. 

1541
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:46,320
And so I'm like OK, what's a 
year going to be like with this 

1542
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:50,680
where I can document it, you 
know, on Instagram or YouTube 

1543
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:54,160
and kind of show people that 
hey, you can do this and no, I'm

1544
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:57,600
not taking TRT because I can't. 
It will kill me. 

1545
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:01,440
So I mean, you know, it's, you 
know, you can do this, people 

1546
01:26:01,440 --> 01:26:04,160
can do this into their 80s, 
nineties, until the day they 

1547
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:05,920
die, you know? 
Totally agree, man. 

1548
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:07,160
I'm all about playing the long 
game. 

1549
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,760
I think it's awesome that you're
documenting the journey, showing

1550
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:12,080
people what's possible, and you 
look freaking great, man. 

1551
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:15,120
I mean, you look incredible, so 
keep doing what you're doing 

1552
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:16,240
because it's obviously working 
for you. 

1553
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:18,920
I appreciate and I appreciate 
the compliment. 

1554
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:20,640
Thanks a lot. 
My pleasure, Craig. 

1555
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:22,520
Well, I will definitely make it 
down to California. 

1556
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:24,640
I've got family down there. 
I need to go hang out and train 

1557
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:26,920
with Mark at some point as well.
And if he's 45 minutes from you,

1558
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:28,720
man, we'll just have to get a 
lift in together as well. 

1559
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:32,240
Yeah, absolutely. 
I have AI actually have a home 

1560
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:36,000
gym in my house but if you went 
down to his place I'd I always 

1561
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,040
wanted to see his. 
His. 

1562
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:41,640
I know he moved from the 
warehouse in West SAC to I think

1563
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:45,240
Dixon, CA. 
I don't know if he moved all the

1564
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:48,120
weights or not but yeah I built 
a 400. 

1565
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:51,080
I just 400 square feet in my gym
but I have you know all 

1566
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,840
commercial equipment in there so
it's been great. 

1567
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:56,680
But yeah, if you come out to 
California, definitely hook up. 

1568
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,920
I'd I'd love to you know meet 
you and talk with you 100%. 

1569
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:03,480
Great conversation. 
We will definitely make that 

1570
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:06,200
happen for sure. 
Until then though, Craig, where?

1571
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:07,600
Where do people go to find out 
more about you? 

1572
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:14,360
Yeah so I'm on I'm on a platform
that's called the BNC community 

1573
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:20,960
and that's I think it's BNC 
community.com is the platform. 

1574
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:28,720
But I also I also host mental 
health and mental health and 

1575
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:32,560
addiction on Rivero's site which
is carnivore dot diet. 

1576
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,680
And so I have an one hour 
session or half hour session 

1577
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:42,320
that I do twice a week on there.
But my Instagram pages at low 

1578
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:51,720
carb bully, LOWCARBBULLY SO2BS 
and that's on Instagram and I do

1579
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:54,000
coaching on there. 
There's a link if people want to

1580
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:58,120
go get get a coach or look at me
at all, but that's pretty much 

1581
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,280
it. 
I should do most more posting on

1582
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:02,480
Instagram. 
Not so good about it, Not a very

1583
01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:05,840
good, not a very good marketer. 
But I appreciate you asking me 

1584
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:07,880
about this stuff here so. 
No, for sure, man. 

1585
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:09,880
I'll definitely link out, make 
it easier for people to find. 

1586
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,080
You really appreciate the 
conversation, man, Appreciate 

1587
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:14,600
the transparency. 
And there's everything I do for 

1588
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:15,480
you, man. 
You just let me know. 

1589
01:28:15,480 --> 01:28:16,320
I'm. 
I'm excited to keep the 

1590
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:18,000
conversation going and get that 
lift in with you. 

1591
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:20,280
Oh, absolutely. 
I appreciate. 

1592
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:22,360
I appreciate it. 
Yeah, I'll, I'll definitely keep

1593
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:25,400
in touch and I'll be posting and
hopefully and I follow you all 

1594
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:28,360
the time on yours. 
So please keep posting I I learn

1595
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:31,520
a lot from your stuff and thank 
you for having me on the podcast

1596
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:33,080
so. 
Hey, my pleasure, Craig. 

1597
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:34,720
Until next time, brother. 
You take care, man. 

1598
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:36,640
All right. 
Talk to you later.