1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,560 Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,080 And today I've got two special guests, Dr. Eugene Lipov and 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,160 Jamie Mustard. They are the authors of The 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,000 Invisible Machine. And today we're diving deep into 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:17,280 their new innovative approach to preventing chronic stress, PTSD, 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,200 which we're going to try and rechange the name to PTSI and 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,020 the strategy they do to accomplish that. 8 00:00:25,020 --> 00:00:27,940 We talked about the sympathetic nervous system and how that is 9 00:00:27,940 --> 00:00:31,780 often times being chronically elevated and stressed in a 10 00:00:31,780 --> 00:00:34,380 growing percentage of the population and what some driving 11 00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:37,180 factors behind that may be. And we just really peel the 12 00:00:37,180 --> 00:00:41,660 curtain back on their new and innovative approach to curing 13 00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:45,700 that both in the short term and long term if the other 14 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:47,860 modalities are put into place. So very interesting 15 00:00:47,860 --> 00:00:49,580 conversation. I really like talking with 16 00:00:49,580 --> 00:00:52,840 people that are thinking outside the box, on the tip of the spear 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,400 of something innovative, which these two gentlemen are most 18 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,920 certainly doing. So if you find yourself 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,960 chronically stressed, if you find yourself, if you know 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,680 someone that is struggling with some form of stress disorder, 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,680 PTSD like symptoms and finds that to be debilitating, this 22 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,200 may be a very worthwhile conversation for y'all to listen 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,200 to. So without further delay, sit 24 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,440 back, relax, enjoy the conversation with Doctor Lipov 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:30,500 and Jamie Mustard and we are live. 26 00:01:30,500 --> 00:01:33,860 How you gentlemen doing today? I'm doing great. 27 00:01:33,860 --> 00:01:35,540 Great. Thanks for having us. 28 00:01:35,740 --> 00:01:37,540 Absolutely. So just for the listeners say we 29 00:01:37,540 --> 00:01:42,340 got two guests today, We got Jamie Mustard and Doctor Eugene 30 00:01:42,340 --> 00:01:44,060 Leipov, if I'm saying that correctly. 31 00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:47,740 And we're going to be diving into the sympathetic nervous 32 00:01:47,740 --> 00:01:49,340 system first and foremost, correct. 33 00:01:50,750 --> 00:01:53,230 Yes Sir. All right, y'all are on the the 34 00:01:53,350 --> 00:01:55,790 tip of the spear doing some groundbreaking research as to 35 00:01:55,790 --> 00:01:59,910 how to improve patients and and clientele that are suffering 36 00:01:59,910 --> 00:02:04,790 from extreme PTSD in the sense, but basically just an 37 00:02:04,790 --> 00:02:07,070 overreaction of the sympathetic nervous state. 38 00:02:07,590 --> 00:02:09,509 So can you kind of give us just peel the curtain back a little 39 00:02:09,509 --> 00:02:12,630 bit and talk about what the the catalyst for this research was, 40 00:02:12,630 --> 00:02:16,150 if you don't mind? Doctor, I mean, well, I'm just, 41 00:02:16,190 --> 00:02:18,990 I'm a I'm an artist. And a writer, and I've worked on 42 00:02:18,990 --> 00:02:22,310 communicating, helping to communicate this in, and I have 43 00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:24,390 ideas about what this thing means to the world. 44 00:02:24,750 --> 00:02:28,390 But you're sitting here with the inventor of this groundbreaking 45 00:02:28,390 --> 00:02:31,110 procedure, so he should probably answer that question. 46 00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:35,270 It's a good bet I spent 17 years on it. 47 00:02:35,270 --> 00:02:39,670 I wrote a bunch of articles on it anyway, so I'm an 48 00:02:39,670 --> 00:02:44,710 anesthesiologist and just as a kind of background, so I've been 49 00:02:44,710 --> 00:02:47,230 doing some pathetic blocks. So fight and flight nerve. 50 00:02:47,670 --> 00:02:53,550 Blocks since 1987 through an interesting set of circumstance. 51 00:02:53,750 --> 00:02:58,230 I became interested in PTSD because it was a predecessor to 52 00:02:58,390 --> 00:03:03,430 my approach was a surgical procedure where they move the 53 00:03:03,430 --> 00:03:07,910 lung out of the way and they clip nerves in the chest for 54 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:10,590 hand sweats and they found out the hand sweats went away but 55 00:03:10,590 --> 00:03:14,230 PTSD stopped was making sweats disorder, which we will talk 56 00:03:14,230 --> 00:03:17,320 about later. But the key point it turns out 57 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:22,440 when somebody has enough stress, so walking down the street, 58 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,080 somebody almost hits you by a car, your fight or flight system 59 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,800 gets overactive or sympathetic system, and when you forget 60 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,680 about the whole thing, sympathetic system goes goes 61 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,440 back to normal. So there's no problem. 62 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,720 But if there's multiple incidents like that, or there's 63 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:44,120 a couple of big ones, be it sexual attack, be it military. 64 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:46,270 B. Just being ignored by the 65 00:03:46,270 --> 00:03:51,510 parents can make the sympathetic systems, fight and flight system 66 00:03:51,510 --> 00:03:55,790 get stuck in an on position. If it's an on position you can 67 00:03:55,790 --> 00:03:59,550 make your life miserable. So if you can look at the most 68 00:03:59,550 --> 00:04:03,030 obvious perspective of it. If you think about what happens 69 00:04:03,030 --> 00:04:06,630 to your body when you're running from the tiger, parametai tiger, 70 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:10,230 you're looking around making sure the tiger doesn't need you. 71 00:04:10,470 --> 00:04:14,180 So it's hyper vigilance. You have to sleep is one eye 72 00:04:14,180 --> 00:04:15,700 open so that tiger doesn't get you. 73 00:04:16,380 --> 00:04:19,220 You're not digesting in food because you need to be. 74 00:04:19,339 --> 00:04:21,300 All the energy you got goes to the legs. 75 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:24,100 You can run. You're not going to be having 76 00:04:24,100 --> 00:04:26,780 interest in sexual function. Anything sticks out is going to 77 00:04:26,780 --> 00:04:30,700 get in your way and so on. So that's kind of the 78 00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:32,860 sympathetic system. One O 1. 79 00:04:33,780 --> 00:04:35,940 So it turns out there's a procedure has been done since 80 00:04:35,940 --> 00:04:40,340 1926 called Stellar Ganglion Block, which is numbing up the 81 00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:44,130 fight and flight nerve system. And it seems to reset this over 82 00:04:44,130 --> 00:04:49,730 activation or sympathetic system that's stuck in on position and 83 00:04:49,730 --> 00:04:55,410 the responses can be amazing quickly 1015 minutes and can 84 00:04:55,410 --> 00:04:58,170 last a month or years. So that's kind of very broad 85 00:04:58,170 --> 00:05:00,850 overview. Well, I would like to tag on to 86 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:03,650 that and give my take on what he just said. 87 00:05:03,850 --> 00:05:08,770 OK, I think I would say the Doctor is being exceedingly 88 00:05:08,770 --> 00:05:11,570 humble in his description of what he has discovered. 89 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:13,800 And how it works and who it affects. 90 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:21,000 The the what he's talking about is in his research he basically 91 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,760 found the location of what we now know is the sympathetic 92 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,440 nervous system. And in a in a simple safe 93 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,480 outpatient procedure over one to two days he can reset the 94 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,200 nervous system to the pre trauma state. 95 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,520 That's if you have to look at the nervous system like a broken 96 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:38,680 leg. Right. 97 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,760 It is the primary thing. When you see a traumatized 98 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,760 person, whether it's because they've carried stress their 99 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,120 whole life or they've had this big traumatic incident, the 100 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,480 primary thing that is going on with them, they might have, you 101 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,840 know, brain health issues. They might have other physical 102 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,400 issues. They might need talk therapy. 103 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,680 They could have a lot of things going on with them. 104 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,440 But likely the most primary thing going on with most human 105 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,520 beings they're struggling internally is their nervous 106 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,880 system is shock. OK, it's it's as, as Doctor 107 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,520 Lipov said, it's stuck on, right? 108 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:16,360 And we know this is the primary thing because we can see it in 109 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,680 an animal, right? If you take a dog, a chick and a 110 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:24,880 cat, a goat, and you beat the crap out of it, it changes and 111 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,480 it changes. It either gets really, really 112 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,200 meek or it gets really, really aggressive. 113 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:30,520 We didn't just give that animal a disorder, we changed its 114 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:31,880 biology. This. 115 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,800 This is what Doctor Lipov discovered, and this is what he 116 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,380 can reverse. So when you reverse this and I, 117 00:06:37,380 --> 00:06:39,060 Doctor Lipak can talk more about this. 118 00:06:39,060 --> 00:06:41,940 But when you reverse this, when you take the sympathetic nervous 119 00:06:41,940 --> 00:06:45,140 system and you put it back to the pre trauma state, all of 120 00:06:45,140 --> 00:06:47,340 these other incredible therapeutics in the world from 121 00:06:47,340 --> 00:06:52,820 talk therapy to yoga to nature to working out to all the things 122 00:06:52,820 --> 00:06:56,860 we do to kind of reset our nervous system are become way 123 00:06:56,860 --> 00:07:01,740 more effective and way more joyous because you're doing, you 124 00:07:01,740 --> 00:07:05,020 know, otherwise you're doing these therapies over a broken 125 00:07:05,020 --> 00:07:07,120 leg. And so there's so there's 126 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,960 hundreds of millions of people across the world, maybe in the 127 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:15,360 United States, that have this physical injury in their body 128 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,320 that don't associate with war trauma or sexual assault trauma. 129 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,360 They just maybe their dad didn't hug them that could give this to 130 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,880 you not getting your emotional needs met, a business failure. 131 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,400 And there's wives and husbands all over the world. 132 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,280 They're looking at their loved one who they don't associate 133 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,520 with, trauma that has the same symptoms as someone coming back 134 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,090 from Afghanistan. Because of they have this 135 00:07:35,290 --> 00:07:38,210 biological injury to their body and we should get at some point 136 00:07:38,210 --> 00:07:39,650 in the interviews, we should get into that. 137 00:07:39,850 --> 00:07:42,850 But that's what he's come across and I think it is the most 138 00:07:42,850 --> 00:07:45,570 important medical innovation since the discovery of 139 00:07:45,570 --> 00:07:49,330 penicillin in 1928 and maybe the most important human innovation 140 00:07:49,330 --> 00:07:52,610 since the moon landing when this comes out in the end. 141 00:07:52,730 --> 00:07:53,730 And that's why we wrote the book. 142 00:07:54,650 --> 00:07:56,330 I'm definitely keen to dive into this. 143 00:07:56,330 --> 00:08:01,370 So from a physical standpoint, what is actually causing the 144 00:08:01,370 --> 00:08:03,450 body to get stuck in a sympathetic set? 145 00:08:03,450 --> 00:08:06,730 Because it's like a tangible thing going on neurologically in 146 00:08:06,730 --> 00:08:08,810 the brain, like what's physically happening. 147 00:08:09,370 --> 00:08:12,170 Yeah, so if you don't mind, let me answer it two ways. 148 00:08:12,170 --> 00:08:15,530 I usually like to give a direct answer, but I'm gonna be elusive 149 00:08:15,530 --> 00:08:19,410 today, OK? So I'm trying to change the name 150 00:08:19,410 --> 00:08:23,170 PTSD to PTSI Postering Stress Injury and you'll see how it all 151 00:08:23,170 --> 00:08:29,090 works together. So so basically. 152 00:08:30,780 --> 00:08:32,620 There was a gentleman, his name is Frank Ogbert. 153 00:08:32,620 --> 00:08:35,900 He came up with the term Stockholm syndrome, very famous 154 00:08:35,900 --> 00:08:38,580 psychiatrist, and he believed the name needs to be changed. 155 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:41,740 PTSD disorder, which is nonspecific to post traumatic 156 00:08:41,740 --> 00:08:45,620 stress injury, meaning there is some kind of brain change and we 157 00:08:45,620 --> 00:08:48,260 can talk about it later. We're doing campaign, we're 158 00:08:48,260 --> 00:08:50,180 working with American psychiatricization trying to 159 00:08:50,180 --> 00:08:53,580 change the name because I did a study that showed that if the 160 00:08:53,580 --> 00:08:58,220 name is changed, then the stigma goes away and stigma goes away. 161 00:08:58,220 --> 00:09:00,300 People seek care and they survive. 162 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:01,860 Which is pretty big deal I think. 163 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:04,260 Anyway, so back to the Physiology. 164 00:09:05,140 --> 00:09:09,460 So when event happens or multiple events, two things 165 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:11,540 happen. First thing happens immediately 166 00:09:11,540 --> 00:09:15,060 is called secretion or release of norepinephrine. 167 00:09:15,380 --> 00:09:17,140 Probably most people have heard of adrenaline. 168 00:09:17,540 --> 00:09:22,220 Norepinephrine is it's brother and it's the neurotransmitter in 169 00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:25,300 the brain. So when you feel hyped up 170 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:27,900 because you almost got hit by a bus, that's not a preference. 171 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:32,990 So if you take fluid. Around the brain of somebody 172 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:37,830 who's PTSD, you will see an increasing level of 173 00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:42,110 norepinephrine. The other thing that happens is 174 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:46,310 is substance called NGF, Neuro growth factor or science. 175 00:09:46,310 --> 00:09:48,830 People like me will like to talk about neurotropics. 176 00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:53,430 Neurotropic means something that will make the nerves grow, fight 177 00:09:53,430 --> 00:09:56,190 in flight nerves or sympathetic nerve sympathy particularly 178 00:09:57,470 --> 00:10:01,250 responsive to NGF nerve. In your growth strep and your 179 00:10:01,250 --> 00:10:04,730 growth factor, what happens is it gets released in the brain 180 00:10:04,730 --> 00:10:08,010 and then it gets brought down to the neck where sympathetic 181 00:10:08,010 --> 00:10:11,890 ganglia reside. Once it hits the ganglia, it 182 00:10:11,890 --> 00:10:13,570 promotes nerve growth in the brain. 183 00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:19,370 So if you think of, let's say before trauma, somebody has four 184 00:10:19,370 --> 00:10:21,530 sympathetic nerves in the brain, now they have eight. 185 00:10:21,930 --> 00:10:24,130 Each one of those produces norepinephrine. 186 00:10:24,610 --> 00:10:27,010 So as long as that state persists. 187 00:10:27,630 --> 00:10:30,710 People will have symptoms of PTSD or PTS side. 188 00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:35,190 The hardest part for me was starting to figure out why local 189 00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:41,790 nesthetic that lasts 8 hours can give you 1015 years of relief. 190 00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:46,510 Turns out when you put local nesthetic onto the ganglia it 191 00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:51,110 deactivates NGF nerve growth factor and it does two things. 192 00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:53,270 The first thing it does, it stops secretion of 193 00:10:53,270 --> 00:10:56,520 norepinephrine immediately. So in about 5-10 minutes people 194 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,400 go, I can now take a breath first time in 20 years. 195 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:09,560 But #2 it reduces NGF amount. As that drops, it leads to 196 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:14,800 something called pruning or the nerve fibers that grew before 197 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,160 those four and then became 8 and goes back to four. 198 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,400 So when we talk about reset, I think in a very real way it is 199 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,570 resetting the biological system. And the last piece is, this 200 00:11:26,570 --> 00:11:29,210 sounds like an interesting theory, but yeah, maybe yes, 201 00:11:29,210 --> 00:11:32,890 maybe no. So there was a study done by a 202 00:11:32,890 --> 00:11:37,450 body of mine, Doctor Alkire in Long Beach CA 2015 and they 203 00:11:37,450 --> 00:11:41,690 found that if you do a PET scan which evaluates brain function, 204 00:11:42,330 --> 00:11:46,050 you could see a reduction of the brain scan function of Amygdal 205 00:11:46,050 --> 00:11:50,610 which controls PKSDPKSI after stellate in a day or two. 206 00:11:52,210 --> 00:11:54,490 So I don't know that that's pretty clear, hopefully. 207 00:11:55,050 --> 00:11:58,450 Robert Can I, Robert, can I get my comment on what he just said? 208 00:11:58,450 --> 00:12:00,490 But like a plumber? Yeah, yeah, totally. 209 00:12:01,170 --> 00:12:04,490 OK, you know my interpretation of what he just said and he can 210 00:12:04,490 --> 00:12:06,010 correct me if he doesn't like it. 211 00:12:06,010 --> 00:12:09,370 But you know, my interpretation is basically, you know, you have 212 00:12:09,370 --> 00:12:11,970 this overwhelming incident where you carry chronic allostatic 213 00:12:11,970 --> 00:12:15,410 load, which is how I think most people get this injury. 214 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:17,650 I think most of the people that have this don't associate with 215 00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:21,370 trauma because they just, they haven't been to war. 216 00:12:21,690 --> 00:12:24,730 Or they haven't had a sexual assault or been a first 217 00:12:24,730 --> 00:12:28,130 responder. But, you know, you have this 218 00:12:28,130 --> 00:12:30,090 either overwhelming thing. You have to think about it like 219 00:12:30,090 --> 00:12:33,330 if you were being attacked by a tiger in the jungle, you know 220 00:12:33,330 --> 00:12:36,970 you you're designed to live in a tiger attack for about 30 to 90 221 00:12:36,970 --> 00:12:38,810 seconds. You're either going to kill that 222 00:12:38,810 --> 00:12:42,490 tiger or you're going to flee the tiger, or you're going to 223 00:12:42,490 --> 00:12:44,330 die. You know that you're that's how 224 00:12:44,330 --> 00:12:47,530 long the body is designed to live in fight or flight in an 225 00:12:47,530 --> 00:12:50,870 overwhelming. A cycle, you know, traumatic 226 00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:56,590 event like a tiger attack or your buddy's head getting blown 227 00:12:56,590 --> 00:12:59,950 off or seeing someone die or a sexual assault. 228 00:13:01,550 --> 00:13:06,110 Your you have the this biological you know these things 229 00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:08,670 get secreted in the brain. Like Doctor Lipop said the NGF 230 00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:12,310 and the and the norepinephrine. The NGF grows the nerves. 231 00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:14,710 Your sympathetic nervous system is housed in your neck and the 232 00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:16,830 select ganglion on each side of your neck. 233 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,960 And that's that feeling that pushes your body into immediate 234 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,200 action to save your life. Where you swerve your car, you 235 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,800 stop yourself from slipping. That comes from your neck. 236 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,480 OK, well, those things are too big. 237 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,480 Then. Like he said, you've created a 238 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:35,280 biological change where these secretions are now causing that 239 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,200 to get stuck up because of the extra nerves that grow from the 240 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,320 nerve growth factor. This is a layman's term, but 241 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,000 this is kind of a simplified way of saying it. 242 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,880 The the signal it gets, it gets stuck in that heightened state. 243 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:51,120 And then the signal basically reverses, telling your brain, 244 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,960 these nerves in your neck are telling your brain 33165 days a 245 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,960 year, seven days a week, 24 hours a day, that your life is 246 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,280 in danger. That's very useful if you're a 247 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,920 tiger infested jungle, if you're sitting on your couch eating 248 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,160 popcorn or Cheetos watching Netflix. 249 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:10,120 It's a horror show. So the state that we're designed 250 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,250 to live in for 30 to 90 seconds. For 10s and 10s of millions of 251 00:14:14,250 --> 00:14:19,970 Americans they live in it 24 hours a day 365 and that had and 252 00:14:19,970 --> 00:14:22,970 because we're not designed to live that way and Doctor Lipov 253 00:14:22,970 --> 00:14:25,890 can talk more about this. It runs havoc biologically on 254 00:14:25,890 --> 00:14:27,770 your body. It contributes to autoimmune 255 00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:33,850 diseases cancers it it it it makes your body a a mess and a 256 00:14:33,850 --> 00:14:39,930 Petri disk for more problems. So, but again, what causes? 257 00:14:39,930 --> 00:14:41,970 The other thing that causes this is if you have. 258 00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:47,300 If you carry, you know, you know, a stress every day, that's 259 00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:49,060 a very deep stress. It's like they have this thing 260 00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:53,700 called operator syndrome where when a soldier is in Afghanistan 261 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:56,220 to for 30, you know, three years and maybe they're never in a 262 00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:58,380 firefight, but they're thinking about their family. 263 00:14:58,380 --> 00:14:59,980 They hear about their friends are dying. 264 00:15:00,260 --> 00:15:02,980 They have to worry about IUDEDS wherever they go. 265 00:15:03,140 --> 00:15:05,180 But they're carrying this deep stress. 266 00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:08,700 They get this injury and it has the following symptoms. 267 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:12,550 They call it operator syndrome. Anxiety here trigger reactivity, 268 00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:16,750 hyper vigilance, hyper arousal paranoia, sense of doom. 269 00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:19,190 And in the military, where people are trained to protect, 270 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:22,750 the ultimate form of flight is suicide. 271 00:15:22,750 --> 00:15:25,710 In neighborhoods where I grew up, where violence is OK, the 272 00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:29,590 opposite the the ultimate form of fight is homicide and it 273 00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:32,590 explains so many things that are going on in our society and 274 00:15:32,590 --> 00:15:35,830 fabric of our society that have been unexplained. 275 00:15:35,830 --> 00:15:39,840 So what I'm trying to say. My interpretation of what Doctor 276 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,760 Lip off has created and what he what he said is that you know I 277 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,200 think maybe 30 to 50% of the populate the US population. 278 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,040 You know 150 million people, 100 million people are walking 279 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,800 around with operator syndrome with the exact same symptoms and 280 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,920 they don't know why because they don't associate with trauma. 281 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,960 Well, I'm assuming the the increased nerve growth factor 282 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,480 and the increased release of norepinephrine is going to have 283 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,440 a pretty significant down regulation of any hormones 284 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,080 associated with the parasympathetic. 285 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:10,640 Yeah, Let me tell you about that. 286 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,120 Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right, 287 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,120 Sir. So I actually wrote a couple of 288 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,080 interesting papers that would be an interesting thing. 289 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,480 So China, in China, they actually do a lot of work on 290 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,000 Stelly for TBI, traumatic brain injury and other things. 291 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,140 So there was a. Complication about ulcerative 292 00:16:31,140 --> 00:16:34,100 colitis, right. Autoimmune disease, no question, 293 00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:37,660 no debate. So that's associated with really 294 00:16:37,660 --> 00:16:40,660 nasty symptoms. And Interleukin 6 which has 295 00:16:40,660 --> 00:16:44,100 increased which is basically tells you how the immune system 296 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:47,260 is overactive. Interleukin 6 by the way, on a 297 00:16:47,260 --> 00:16:50,980 side note is what goes nuts during COVID and when people 298 00:16:50,980 --> 00:16:55,500 have from Interleukin crisis, that's like the big player of 299 00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:59,560 it. So they took 60 people, 30 of 300 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,440 them had stellate and normal treatment for ulcerative colitis 301 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,960 and then the other ones just did the normal thing. 302 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,800 They found out people who had stellate had significant 303 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,480 improvement of ulcerative colitis and interleukin 6 304 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,480 reduced. So I wrote the paper explaining 305 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,200 why that happens. Turned out there is a direct 306 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,800 connection from stellate to two places in the body which are 307 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,920 hyper important, such as thymus which controls T cells and bone 308 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,350 marrow which is B cells. So the point is when somebody is 309 00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:35,030 running continuous sympathetics, it's very consumptive of immune 310 00:17:35,030 --> 00:17:38,870 system. Further, people who have PTSD 311 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:41,270 have twice the rate of heart attacks. 312 00:17:44,350 --> 00:17:47,230 Theoretically, I do not have the evidence of that effect, but 313 00:17:47,230 --> 00:17:50,590 theoretically, if the immune system is dysregulated, that's 314 00:17:50,590 --> 00:17:53,960 what fight or flight does. The chance of cancer increases 315 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,200 because most people develop cancer, but they do not have 316 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,600 cancer because they have scavengers. 317 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,760 The immune system chews up bad cells. 318 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:09,600 So I think living in a stress is a horrible long term impact and 319 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,760 also reduces brain size. It has many other terrible 320 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,560 things to to really bring this home. 321 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,950 I think for the average listener, you know that they may 322 00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:22,070 not have, as you pointed out you know gone to war, been suffering 323 00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:26,070 from diagnosed PTSD. But I would think a lot of the 324 00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:31,550 research around social media and just chronically being in a 325 00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:34,350 heightened sense of awareness as a result of the stimulus that 326 00:18:34,350 --> 00:18:37,270 that brings forward and especially in like younger 327 00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:42,160 children and teens, female demographic, both male and 328 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,560 female though actually like just constantly looking at their 329 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,120 phone and playing this. Comparison game? 330 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:47,960 I would love to. I would love to comment on that 331 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,360 and then have Eugene talk about it, but could I comment on that? 332 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,840 Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I mean, listen, you know, 333 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,720 we're living in a state in the modern world that's very 334 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,600 unnatural. You know, I studied economics 335 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,800 and economic history and the history of economic systems in 336 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:08,680 college and you know, we you 300 years ago, we were still kind of 337 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,530 an agrarian society. That means we were in nature, We 338 00:19:11,530 --> 00:19:13,570 were around animals. These things mitigate the 339 00:19:13,570 --> 00:19:18,050 nervous system, OK? Human beings are not designed. 340 00:19:18,050 --> 00:19:20,890 We know that the minute we get into nature, we feel present and 341 00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:22,930 we feel calm and our nervous system relaxes. 342 00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:25,810 It's part of resilience. Animals do the same thing, 343 00:19:26,050 --> 00:19:27,330 right? There's a lot of simple things. 344 00:19:27,330 --> 00:19:29,130 Running does it. Yoga does it. 345 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:32,170 You know, I don't want to get too woo, but meditation can do 346 00:19:32,170 --> 00:19:33,210 it. There's a lot of things that and 347 00:19:33,210 --> 00:19:35,170 then alcohol or drinking can do it. 348 00:19:35,170 --> 00:19:38,410 But you know, we're living in this time where in this 50,000 349 00:19:38,410 --> 00:19:42,330 years of human evolution and then in a 300 year light switch, 350 00:19:42,330 --> 00:19:44,730 all of a sudden we're living in these artificial environments, 351 00:19:44,730 --> 00:19:48,770 synthetic environments. We sit in synthetic, we live in 352 00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:50,810 a synthetic box. We get into another roving 353 00:19:50,810 --> 00:19:53,010 synthetic box to go to another synthetic box. 354 00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:55,410 We work there for a few hours, several hours or all day. 355 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:58,250 Then we get back in our roving synthetic box to come back to a 356 00:19:58,250 --> 00:20:01,170 synthetic box. Human beings are not designed to 357 00:20:01,170 --> 00:20:04,530 not be having things around them that are regulating their 358 00:20:04,530 --> 00:20:05,850 nervous system. OK. 359 00:20:06,050 --> 00:20:09,010 So if you think about it from, you know, this example of 2000 360 00:20:09,010 --> 00:20:12,290 years ago in the tiger infested jungle, yeah. 361 00:20:12,530 --> 00:20:15,450 So this thing helps you survive if your nervous system gets 362 00:20:15,450 --> 00:20:19,770 jacked because there's tigers all over this jungle, that's a 363 00:20:19,770 --> 00:20:21,850 good thing because you're going to be on constant alert. 364 00:20:21,850 --> 00:20:22,970 You're going to be hyper vigilant. 365 00:20:23,130 --> 00:20:25,450 You're going to be reactive. This is going to keep you alive. 366 00:20:27,180 --> 00:20:30,140 But you're also have nature around regulating the nervous 367 00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:32,500 system. So now what's happened in, in 368 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:36,940 our kind of modern way of living is we have the problem without 369 00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:40,220 the regulation, right. And then you add on to that 370 00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:42,580 social media, right? You know, there's been studies 371 00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:46,380 that show a direct corollary between the rise of social media 372 00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:52,740 on cell phones and preteen suicide, suicidal ideation, 373 00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:58,290 which is part of fight or flight in most in mostly in girls. 374 00:20:59,090 --> 00:21:01,770 OK. The the pressure that young 375 00:21:02,090 --> 00:21:06,170 girls feel and young and young people feel in this comparison 376 00:21:06,170 --> 00:21:09,530 culture, we've we already felt that stuff 20 years ago, before 377 00:21:09,530 --> 00:21:12,450 the Internet, when it's all in real time on Instagram. 378 00:21:14,530 --> 00:21:21,290 Those pressures are massive and it creates A chronic stress on 379 00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:24,650 the nervous system and there's nothing around to mitigate it. 380 00:21:25,180 --> 00:21:28,700 And that's why I think the numbers are grossly 381 00:21:28,740 --> 00:21:31,340 underestimated. And I I don't know if Doctor. 382 00:21:31,460 --> 00:21:33,380 Yeah. I'm assuming someone that is 383 00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:36,300 subjecting themselves to that level of chronic stress. 384 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:41,580 While that is extreme, that is not like, you know, the acute 385 00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:45,620 stress of being almost hit by a bus or seeing your friend's head 386 00:21:45,620 --> 00:21:47,260 blown off. Something of that I I would, I 387 00:21:47,260 --> 00:21:49,580 would, I would well, again there's two things that 'cause 388 00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:53,500 this the the acute stress but I think the more common cause is 389 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:56,900 what I would call operator syndrome which is what maybe 100 390 00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:02,300 million Americans have, maybe 150 million which is carrying a 391 00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:05,620 micro stress for too long. So say you're in the jungle and 392 00:22:05,620 --> 00:22:10,940 you you survive a survive tiger attack but there's tigers 393 00:22:10,940 --> 00:22:12,500 everywhere. So every time you step out of 394 00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:15,980 your Hut or your cave or whatever you're like tigers, you 395 00:22:15,980 --> 00:22:19,340 know it's on you, right? That's what that the body is 396 00:22:19,340 --> 00:22:23,620 going to interpret that biologically the same way that 397 00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:29,220 a, you know 12 year old is going to interpret bullying or trying 398 00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:30,540 to live up to someone's social media. 399 00:22:30,540 --> 00:22:33,780 The sympathetic nervous system doesn't think it's apathetic, it 400 00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:37,980 only responds. So those two situations can be 401 00:22:37,980 --> 00:22:42,660 equally stressful and lead to the same biological change with 402 00:22:42,660 --> 00:22:45,820 the the the sprouting that Doctor Lipop talked about where 403 00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:47,660 you're then in this permanent state of fight or flight 404 00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:50,460 actually think that is the far more common syndrome. 405 00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:53,370 And that's what's horrible is because you have all these 406 00:22:53,370 --> 00:22:55,450 people out there that are looking, you know, they're 407 00:22:55,450 --> 00:22:58,890 medicalizing themselves whether it's through psychotropics or 408 00:22:58,890 --> 00:23:03,490 they're self medicating. And they well, you know, they 409 00:23:03,490 --> 00:23:06,290 think they have a disorder which is incredibly stigmatizing. 410 00:23:06,290 --> 00:23:10,450 But really, their nervous system is just jacked and we can see it 411 00:23:10,450 --> 00:23:13,250 on a brain scan, you can see it on a fMRI and nobody's talking 412 00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:15,570 about it. So is the rate at which those 413 00:23:15,570 --> 00:23:18,570 nerve growth factors are growing and releasing more 414 00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:22,360 norepinephrine. On par with that level of 415 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,240 chronic stress from social media and things of that nature as to 416 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,200 what it would, I think Doctor Lipard would be a better person. 417 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,600 Let me give you an answer to that. 418 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,120 So the basic answer is we don't know that that has not been 419 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:37,000 started. But what has been started is 420 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,080 social media. Let's just stick to social 421 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,520 media. So social media does a number of 422 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,160 things. First of all, I do not 423 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:46,640 participate much in social media. 424 00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:52,510 Nor do I watch like flash news. It's like, but the thing to 425 00:23:52,510 --> 00:23:56,150 remember is that it depends what shape the body is in. 426 00:23:57,510 --> 00:24:00,030 You knowing a lot about nutrition, understand nutrition 427 00:24:00,030 --> 00:24:01,750 has a lot to do how you you're feeling. 428 00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:04,950 The other part, people don't quite realize that the impact of 429 00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:09,110 sleep on PTSD or PTSI mental health. 430 00:24:09,790 --> 00:24:13,030 There's many, many, many studies now showing that if you do not 431 00:24:13,030 --> 00:24:22,050 sleep 7 hours or more than your. Function will be degraded 1-2 if 432 00:24:22,050 --> 00:24:24,650 you look at. So it turns out when people 433 00:24:24,650 --> 00:24:27,410 think we all produce poisons in our brain the only way to get it 434 00:24:27,410 --> 00:24:31,290 out is deep phase of sleep. So if you never get full asleep 435 00:24:31,690 --> 00:24:33,490 and it's a problem. So a lot of people who are 436 00:24:33,490 --> 00:24:38,290 anxious, let's say you read something that's upsetting or 437 00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:42,930 scary, or somebody insults you or scares you on Internet and 438 00:24:42,930 --> 00:24:46,970 and whichever way that happens then you can't sleep. 439 00:24:47,980 --> 00:24:50,660 You can't sleep. It affects your sleep, it 440 00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:54,820 affects your function, but it also increases fight and flight. 441 00:24:54,940 --> 00:24:58,140 Just not sleeping well increases the fight and flight function. 442 00:24:58,620 --> 00:25:01,660 So a lot of people with sleep apnea or they don't sleep well, 443 00:25:02,020 --> 00:25:03,860 have hypertension or high blood pressure. 444 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:08,460 It's all connected. Now the NGF is that doesn't have 445 00:25:08,460 --> 00:25:11,020 to be a cue, doesn't have to be overtime. 446 00:25:11,020 --> 00:25:14,140 I really don't know. But if you look at the number of 447 00:25:14,140 --> 00:25:18,790 people who have. PTSD based on the screening 448 00:25:18,790 --> 00:25:22,550 tools which is are the best we have currently you're looking at 449 00:25:22,550 --> 00:25:25,590 at least quarter of first responders and people like that. 450 00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:32,310 Probably 1/4 of women who are abused or near abused or scared 451 00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:35,350 all of that. It also did did so a lot of I've 452 00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:37,870 had a number of people go I I didn't shouldn't do the block. 453 00:25:37,870 --> 00:25:40,990 I don't deserve it because I don't know PTSDI was never in 454 00:25:40,990 --> 00:25:43,430 combat. I was never sexually molested. 455 00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:45,870 But I had a really tough childhood. 456 00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:47,550 People would beat me. You know, it's normal. 457 00:25:47,550 --> 00:25:50,390 It's like it's not normal really if people beat you in childhood 458 00:25:50,670 --> 00:25:53,190 and so on. So the point is it depends on 459 00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:54,750 type of trauma, length of trauma. 460 00:25:54,910 --> 00:25:56,430 It just depends how sensitive you are. 461 00:25:56,670 --> 00:25:58,030 Like, I'm particularly sensitive. 462 00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:00,590 Let me give you another thing to remember. 463 00:26:01,630 --> 00:26:05,310 So there is a whole science critical epigenetics. 464 00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:08,230 So genes. Most people think DNA is this 465 00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:12,590 immobile thing that will only change if you have a mutation. 466 00:26:13,410 --> 00:26:14,890 Turns out genes are very flexible. 467 00:26:15,290 --> 00:26:20,210 They were designed by nature to react to the environment. 468 00:26:20,850 --> 00:26:25,050 So just look at my case for example, my grandfather was 469 00:26:25,050 --> 00:26:26,930 almost killed during programs in Ukraine. 470 00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:30,890 He gave those genes and they go to three generations. 471 00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:35,770 So my father get those genes and he goes to World War 2, has 472 00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:37,890 horrible PDSD and he gives that to me. 473 00:26:37,890 --> 00:26:42,270 So if somebody like me. I had those genes and I had a 474 00:26:42,270 --> 00:26:43,910 very interesting childhood, to put it mildly. 475 00:26:43,910 --> 00:26:45,710 Really. Living with somebody as PTSD is 476 00:26:45,710 --> 00:26:49,430 entertaining. But like they compare, someone 477 00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:52,710 who had a very smooth childhood didn't have those genetics and 478 00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:57,550 we had the same trauma, the one who had great childhood, the 479 00:26:57,550 --> 00:27:00,750 chance PTSD is much lower, mine is much higher. 480 00:27:01,150 --> 00:27:08,030 So a lot of people say nature loves the gun, but circumstances 481 00:27:08,030 --> 00:27:13,480 fires it. And can you, can you explain to 482 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,400 Robert and the audience the difference between PTSD and PTSI 483 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,720 and why you want to change the name based on what you just 484 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,640 said? Yeah. 485 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,640 So the whole thing is PTSD is Postman express disorder. 486 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,800 That's a term that was introduced in 1980 and that 487 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,840 continued that in 2012. So in 2012, General Shirelli, 488 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,120 who was in charge of suicide prevention. 489 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,640 Or U.S. Army basically went to the APA 490 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,360 and said hey, we need to change the term because my guys are 491 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:46,840 killing themselves, stigma is killing them and they were 492 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,200 ignored, shall we say. So in 2023, actually I did a 493 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,520 study that shows that yes, if you change the name PTSDPTSI, it 494 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,200 will go away, a lot of signal will go away. 495 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,640 So what I did with that is submitted that to the American 496 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,800 Psychiatric station because the idea is that. 497 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,720 PTSI is actually visible in the scan. 498 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,720 So we have a nice PSA that which is public service and I can 499 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,480 share with you Robert. Basically the easiest way to 500 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:20,880 think about it is like a broken leg. 501 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,200 Somebody has a broken leg and you show them the picture of the 502 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,960 leg. There's no stigma getting cast 503 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,240 or getting it fixed. So if you scan a brain, you can 504 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,360 see over activation amygdala and it's like, oh cares, I'll get 505 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,830 treated no problem. As opposed to, well, it's a 506 00:28:36,830 --> 00:28:39,550 weakness to the soul. You're worse, you're this, 507 00:28:39,550 --> 00:28:42,230 you're that. It doesn't really exist. 508 00:28:42,430 --> 00:28:46,470 So that leads to a lot of stigma and not believing that it's even 509 00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:49,190 possible to get better. So disorder, you kind of got it 510 00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:51,870 the rest of your life. Like, you know most people in 511 00:28:51,870 --> 00:28:53,830 schizophrenia, you got it the rest of your life, right? 512 00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:57,070 Why is there so much pushback on changing that name? 513 00:28:57,950 --> 00:29:00,150 Well, it's interesting I've tried to figure that out. 514 00:29:00,710 --> 00:29:03,510 So there was an interesting write up. 515 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,680 From that was Washington Post. Would they ask Doctor Friedman, 516 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,160 who was making that ultimate decision in 2012, why do you not 517 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,520 want to change it? His answers were, say, politely 518 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,440 obscure. And then there's this whole 519 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,520 thing. My God, we're gonna over 520 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,880 diagnose people with PTSI. EDGE is horrible. 521 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,640 My God. So my answer to that response 522 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,860 has been address it. Over diagnosed and under 523 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:37,220 diagnosed. Look how many people are dying. 524 00:29:38,060 --> 00:29:40,740 So you know everybody talks about 22, right? 525 00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:44,300 22 people suicide per day in the military. 526 00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:49,340 A friend of mine actually looked at it recently and he circulated 527 00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:51,900 that internally in Pentagon. I think the numbers are almost 528 00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,540 twice. That depends how you define 529 00:29:54,540 --> 00:29:59,010 suicide. I I I have my I have my 530 00:29:59,010 --> 00:30:00,730 assumptions as to why. Yeah, hold on JB. 531 00:30:00,730 --> 00:30:02,490 I'm not. Let me give me a second one. 532 00:30:02,490 --> 00:30:04,610 You got to. So the I do not. 533 00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:08,490 I cannot defend PTSD. There is a lot of reasons why 534 00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:12,450 people don't want to change. In medicine, people don't like 535 00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:14,930 to change because there's always something attached to it. 536 00:30:15,370 --> 00:30:19,130 They could be all type of special interest groups, 537 00:30:19,130 --> 00:30:23,010 whatever. But honestly I I cannot defend D 538 00:30:23,450 --> 00:30:25,570 because it's not defensible. That's why I'm. 539 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,560 Leading charge on that. And yeah, that's why you know 540 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,080 the song We Got Pins, We Got this, we got that. 541 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,160 I am hoping in 1212 months is going to be done. 542 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,400 Yeah, that I think, I mean I think the the benefit of 543 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,080 changing the name would outweigh the the negatives for sure. 544 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,080 I mean, the what? What were you about to say 545 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,040 there, Mustren? Yeah. 546 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,120 You know, to me, there's a lot of vested interests, right? 547 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,470 You have a listen. There's a it's a really tricky 548 00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:59,470 thing because I'm, I'm a huge believer in therapeutics. 549 00:30:59,830 --> 00:31:01,350 I'm a huge believer in talk therapy. 550 00:31:01,350 --> 00:31:04,590 I've seen it work. You know I've had it and it's 551 00:31:04,590 --> 00:31:06,990 worked for me, right. There's so many incredible 552 00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:10,550 things out there today. Hyperbaric ketamine, DSR, you 553 00:31:10,550 --> 00:31:14,430 know EMDR right here. Just there's research back, 554 00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:17,110 science based results out there, OK. 555 00:31:17,310 --> 00:31:19,750 But there's also things that hurt us that have become 556 00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:21,670 mainstream society that we just accept. 557 00:31:21,670 --> 00:31:24,470 Like, you know, marijuana has become ubiquitous and legalized 558 00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:27,550 in States and almost like the government's encouraging us to 559 00:31:27,550 --> 00:31:31,470 use that to self medicate. THC ravages the brain even worse 560 00:31:31,470 --> 00:31:35,030 than alcohol and is associated with multiple cancers as is 561 00:31:35,030 --> 00:31:36,390 alcohol. Right. 562 00:31:36,670 --> 00:31:41,190 So but there are these wonderful therapeutics that don't have the 563 00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:43,030 backlash. The way you have to look at DSR, 564 00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:46,230 what Doctor Lipov's innovation is, you have to look at it the 565 00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:48,630 way you look at a broken leg in relation to physical therapy. 566 00:31:49,330 --> 00:31:51,890 Doctor Luke Publics to give this example of a broken computer 567 00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:53,530 chip which he can elaborate when I'm done. 568 00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:56,890 If you try to run software at a broken chip or you try to do 569 00:31:56,890 --> 00:32:00,690 physical therapy over a broken leg, you still have a non set 570 00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:03,090 leg, you have a broken piece of hardware. 571 00:32:03,490 --> 00:32:08,930 What the DSR is, it's the fundamental reason that we are 572 00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:12,490 overwhelmed. So if we can, when we reset the 573 00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:15,750 nervous system, then we can run the software, we can do that, 574 00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:17,830 all these other therapies that work. 575 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:21,190 But the answer to that question, which is such a great question, 576 00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:23,790 you know, how come we're having such a hard time changing the 577 00:32:23,790 --> 00:32:27,470 name is, you know, there's vested interests and you know 578 00:32:27,470 --> 00:32:29,430 that. You know, like Doctor Lipop will 579 00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:31,310 tell you the story of Summer Weiss when I'm done. 580 00:32:31,310 --> 00:32:34,230 But, you know, you have a medical industrial complex. 581 00:32:34,510 --> 00:32:39,430 You have a psychology and psychiatric industrial complex 582 00:32:40,110 --> 00:32:43,190 where they people have done things a certain way for a very, 583 00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:47,200 very, very long time. And you come along and you say, 584 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,680 hey, it's not all this complicated stuff over here. 585 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,360 We can see what this is. We can see it on a brain scan, 586 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,200 OK. And this fixes 70% overnight. 587 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,920 And then you could deal with the other 30%, right. 588 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,480 But when you fly in the face of convention, it just there's too 589 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,120 many structures in place. And you know, I'll turn this 590 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,780 over to Eugene, but you know, the the one example that I'll 591 00:33:11,780 --> 00:33:15,020 give is Max Planck. The Nobel Prize from in in 592 00:33:15,020 --> 00:33:20,820 physics in the 1940s said that medical innovation is one in 593 00:33:20,820 --> 00:33:24,740 funerals. You have to wait for your 594 00:33:24,740 --> 00:33:27,380 opponents or your naysayers to die. 595 00:33:28,060 --> 00:33:30,340 There's too much convention and structure in place. 596 00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:32,820 And it's like if you've been doing psychotherapy for 30 597 00:33:32,820 --> 00:33:34,980 years, which I believe works, but I don't think it's very 598 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:36,900 good. It's working very well over a 599 00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:38,940 shot nervous system. OK. 600 00:33:39,530 --> 00:33:41,170 If you've been doing psychotherapy for 30 years. 601 00:33:41,450 --> 00:33:44,930 And then, you know, Eugene Lipaugh comes along and says, 602 00:33:44,930 --> 00:33:47,290 hey, that's not working because you're doing it over a broken 603 00:33:47,290 --> 00:33:50,290 chip, Right. Maybe you don't want to hear 604 00:33:50,290 --> 00:33:52,570 that, right. Right. 605 00:33:52,570 --> 00:33:56,450 So you're like you're that. That's part of what I think is 606 00:33:56,450 --> 00:33:58,010 the issue. And I think, you know, Eugene 607 00:33:58,010 --> 00:33:59,730 talks about it being a credibility problem. 608 00:33:59,730 --> 00:34:01,050 And I think he's right about that too. 609 00:34:01,650 --> 00:34:04,050 But I think that, you know, that's, you know, the military 610 00:34:04,050 --> 00:34:05,850 is doing 20 to 30,000 of these a year. 611 00:34:05,850 --> 00:34:07,810 Obama endorsed this thing back in 2008. 612 00:34:08,590 --> 00:34:11,830 OK, there, right now there's a $5,000,000 NYU study, the Doctor 613 00:34:11,830 --> 00:34:15,310 Lipov range, that will prove this on an fMRI study that no 614 00:34:15,310 --> 00:34:18,870 one will ever disagree with it, you know will ever disagree with 615 00:34:18,870 --> 00:34:20,630 it. There's a multi billion dollar 616 00:34:20,630 --> 00:34:24,350 private equity firm opening up clinics all over the world and 617 00:34:24,429 --> 00:34:27,110 with 35 clinics in the United States, the Stella Center in 618 00:34:27,110 --> 00:34:29,429 which Doctor Lipov is the Chief Medical Officer. 619 00:34:29,710 --> 00:34:36,010 So this is true and it's coming. So let's just peel the curtain 620 00:34:36,010 --> 00:34:39,090 back on this, this therapy. Exactly what does this protocol 621 00:34:39,090 --> 00:34:42,810 look like, the DSR protocol? I just want to kind of figure 622 00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:44,969 out what this looks like in its totality here. 623 00:34:45,570 --> 00:34:46,730 Yeah, sure. Simple. 624 00:34:47,130 --> 00:34:50,210 So patient comes in. Obviously we did all the usual 625 00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:52,409 stuff. We put an IV in their arm 626 00:34:52,570 --> 00:34:54,810 safety. About 2/3 of the people want to 627 00:34:54,810 --> 00:34:57,810 go to sleep. When I had mine down, I went to 628 00:34:57,810 --> 00:34:58,930 sleep. I was. 629 00:34:58,970 --> 00:35:02,370 I didn't do my own patient. Lies down on the bed. 630 00:35:03,090 --> 00:35:08,380 We scan. Using ultrasound, Ultrasound 631 00:35:08,380 --> 00:35:11,020 will tell us where the blood vessels are, where the bones 632 00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:14,420 are, where everything is at, which is really nice, and then 633 00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:21,020 we clean the neck. Then I use a special it's called 634 00:35:21,020 --> 00:35:23,980 echogenic needle, meaning I can see it easily under ultrasound. 635 00:35:25,620 --> 00:35:27,860 And then we're putting you on the right spot. 636 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:32,200 Put the local nesthetic in there, one spot, then second 637 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,600 spot, and we're done. It takes about my hands 5-7 638 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,960 minutes to do everything and the results a lot of times are seen 639 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,720 in 15 minutes. And how long do those results 640 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:47,200 last typically? Variable We've had people Long's 641 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,260 outlier right now, 17 years. It depends on three things. 642 00:35:52,260 --> 00:35:53,460 Depends. Genetics. 643 00:35:53,460 --> 00:35:55,860 It depends on what kind of aftercare people do. 644 00:35:55,860 --> 00:35:58,300 Do they do psychotherapy? Do they do meditation? 645 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:01,460 Do they take care of themselves? And #3 what happens to them? 646 00:36:01,460 --> 00:36:05,660 We had a classic example of a gentleman who was a policeman 647 00:36:05,660 --> 00:36:09,980 for Chicago and he was doing great for a year and then he had 648 00:36:09,980 --> 00:36:11,220 to shoot somebody. Line of duty. 649 00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:15,620 He had to come back. And and how? 650 00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:18,780 Like at what point would there be a good candidate for this? 651 00:36:18,780 --> 00:36:23,140 Like is is a. A young teenage girl that 652 00:36:23,220 --> 00:36:28,340 watches too much social media and, you know, aggravating films 653 00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:30,500 needing this right off the bat or. 654 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:32,420 Somebody OK, let me give you an answer to that. 655 00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:34,300 There are a couple answers to that. 656 00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:39,060 Number one, you're asking where does, which is the best 657 00:36:39,060 --> 00:36:40,740 population this procedure works for? 658 00:36:40,780 --> 00:36:42,940 Is that a fair question? Yeah, sure. 659 00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:45,740 OK, so I actually wrote a nut column on. 660 00:36:46,330 --> 00:36:49,330 So you know you're getting older when you can quote a bunch of 661 00:36:49,330 --> 00:36:51,130 your own literature, other people's literature. 662 00:36:52,410 --> 00:36:56,930 Anyway, in 2022, those people are who are sciency geeks. 663 00:36:57,290 --> 00:37:01,090 If you want to go on my website, drujulipup.com, you can download 664 00:37:01,090 --> 00:37:04,010 those articles I've talkedaboutthe.com that we're 665 00:37:04,010 --> 00:37:07,330 alluding to right now was published in 2022. 666 00:37:07,330 --> 00:37:12,530 We looked at 22 different types of trauma and about 250 people, 667 00:37:12,890 --> 00:37:16,080 it looks like. The DSR works across the board 668 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,200 and trauma. So what type of trauma is there 669 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,760 is no real difference in response from militated sexual 670 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:28,000 abuse to neglect and so on. So that's one answer to the way 671 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,240 I think one of the questions you're asking is how do you 672 00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:32,640 select the people who would be good candidates? 673 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:37,280 So I'm very proud to say in Stella, where I'm a Chief 674 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:43,040 Medical Officer, for we have a cadre of nurse practitioner, 675 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,430 psychologist. Who are the psychiatrists who 676 00:37:46,430 --> 00:37:48,750 are doing assessment of everyone? 677 00:37:49,150 --> 00:37:53,910 But if you want to do quick and simple question, you can go on 678 00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:58,710 Google and look up PCL Five. It stands for PTSD Checklist. 679 00:37:59,430 --> 00:38:03,230 If you're about 35, then you're a candidate. 680 00:38:03,470 --> 00:38:05,630 It's that simple. Obviously if somebody's really 681 00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:09,750 sick and they have high blood pressure out of control or they 682 00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:11,870 have bleeding problems, they're not candidates. 683 00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:16,060 But short of that, I've I've treated children as young as 684 00:38:16,060 --> 00:38:22,380 eight and adults as old as 80. And is this something that they 685 00:38:22,380 --> 00:38:25,420 just do through their insurance provider or they're able to go 686 00:38:25,820 --> 00:38:29,180 in and pay this out of pocket? Does this cost prohibitive to a 687 00:38:29,180 --> 00:38:30,540 lot of people? Like how does that work? 688 00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:33,180 OK, that's three questions in there. 689 00:38:33,340 --> 00:38:36,780 I'm going to break them out. A the insurance. 690 00:38:36,820 --> 00:38:39,580 Well, you know, I'm used to being sciencey, so science you 691 00:38:39,580 --> 00:38:42,060 have to be, yeah. I mean, it doesn't cost a lot. 692 00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:45,020 And if you amortize it over your lifetime, it's pennies. 693 00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:47,500 If you don't mind, let let let me give you a direct answer, 694 00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:49,140 Jamie. I I like giving direct answers. 695 00:38:49,260 --> 00:38:50,580 You got it. Fair question. 696 00:38:50,580 --> 00:38:51,580 I'm going to give you a fair answer. 697 00:38:51,940 --> 00:38:53,700 So a insurance doesn't cover it yet. 698 00:38:54,420 --> 00:38:56,820 We've been making significant progress in the last six months, 699 00:38:56,820 --> 00:39:00,580 potentially self insured entities that seem to. 700 00:39:00,870 --> 00:39:05,550 Like this idea, the cost and I don't quite know exactly what 701 00:39:05,550 --> 00:39:10,350 that is, but I think it's maybe 1800 per injection. 702 00:39:10,350 --> 00:39:14,470 And a lot of times we do one or two injections, 2 would be the 703 00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:17,310 other side. So we do 2 injects on one side, 704 00:39:17,310 --> 00:39:20,230 we wait at least a day see how they do, we do the other side. 705 00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:24,990 So I think everything together is probably 3K, but I'm not 706 00:39:24,990 --> 00:39:28,990 quite sure that would have to. If you look at stellacenter.com 707 00:39:28,990 --> 00:39:30,550 that would have pricing and everything. 708 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,560 Gotcha. OK. 709 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:37,000 And are there any adverse effects like if if somebody was 710 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,480 to have this this local anaesthetic, this injection down 711 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,200 regulates the release of norepinephrine, but the next day 712 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,040 they actually need a bump of norepinephrine, is that going to 713 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,880 inhibit that? So let me give you got 2 answers 714 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,240 that. So I think you asked actually 715 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:52,040 two questions there. I'll split them out too. 716 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,960 So Stella can have or DSR can have negative side effects. 717 00:39:57,940 --> 00:40:00,020 So I'll give you an answer to that because somewhat over the 718 00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:02,060 line you're going to need to ask that question anyway. 719 00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:06,460 So the answer is there was a study done in Germany, country 720 00:40:06,460 --> 00:40:11,180 of Germany in 1992 before ultrasounds before guidance. 721 00:40:11,180 --> 00:40:16,460 It's not as safe as it is now. And people found they had seven 722 00:40:16,460 --> 00:40:20,020 people had seizures because they hit the blood vessel and nine 723 00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:23,380 had pneumothoric, which is air in the lung out of 45,000, 724 00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:28,380 nobody died, so. With ultrasound it should be 725 00:40:28,380 --> 00:40:32,900 much less and it's much safer and you can because you can 726 00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:35,740 actually see where everything is, which is much better. 727 00:40:36,220 --> 00:40:40,220 So to give you a direct answer as far as if they need to get 728 00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:41,740 going, will they be able to do so? 729 00:40:42,540 --> 00:40:46,780 That is number one question special Forces guys ask me, 730 00:40:47,340 --> 00:40:49,060 because to them it's life and death, right? 731 00:40:49,420 --> 00:40:52,460 They cannot be out there smelling flowers when they're in 732 00:40:52,460 --> 00:40:53,700 military action. Right. 733 00:40:54,580 --> 00:40:58,130 What they're finding is they're actually better because if you 734 00:40:58,130 --> 00:41:09,250 think about it, if you are hyper active, hyper vigilant and then 735 00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:12,050 you're frenetic, right, you're looking everywhere at once what 736 00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:16,050 you need to do, especially if you're SF or SOF, you need to be 737 00:41:16,050 --> 00:41:19,410 hyper focused and people seem to be much more focused. 738 00:41:19,570 --> 00:41:22,850 They can definitely get going and but they do have their own 739 00:41:22,850 --> 00:41:24,330 terms. They're not getting going 740 00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:27,110 because they can't sleep. They're the bouncing of the 741 00:41:27,110 --> 00:41:29,310 walls are wrapped. If you look at the real 742 00:41:29,310 --> 00:41:32,270 professionals, they sit there and then when they need to do 743 00:41:32,270 --> 00:41:36,670 what they need to do, then they can actually do it very well, 744 00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:39,430 the better I think. Yeah, I know. 745 00:41:39,630 --> 00:41:40,350 That makes. Little sense. 746 00:41:41,590 --> 00:41:45,790 I have a question Doctor Lipoff. Sure. 747 00:41:47,540 --> 00:41:50,740 When I say that, you know, I think this is the primary 748 00:41:50,740 --> 00:41:53,860 mechanism that supersedes all other mechanisms and I'm a big 749 00:41:53,860 --> 00:41:56,420 believer in brain health and therapeutics. 750 00:41:56,420 --> 00:41:58,100 There's incredible therapeutics out there. 751 00:41:59,660 --> 00:42:04,020 A Do you agree with me? And if the answer And if you 752 00:42:04,060 --> 00:42:07,020 know and if not, why? And if yes, why? 753 00:42:09,620 --> 00:42:12,100 That's two questions too, Jamie. All right. 754 00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:17,420 So, so the answer is I think I, I I don't like, you know, you've 755 00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:19,580 known me long enough. I don't like being boastful. 756 00:42:19,580 --> 00:42:22,100 Anybody could stand there and say I'm the most smartest person 757 00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:23,340 in the world. Usually is not. 758 00:42:23,820 --> 00:42:25,580 Even if they're not, nobody wants to deal with them. 759 00:42:26,060 --> 00:42:27,900 Oh, I'm talking about science. Doctor Lipov. 760 00:42:27,940 --> 00:42:30,020 I talk about science. I'm asking about the chip. 761 00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:31,900 Is, you know, can you give your chip analogy? 762 00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:33,780 Is the chip analogy what's happening with people? 763 00:42:33,860 --> 00:42:37,060 Yeah, this is, well, it's well, it's A&S You're talking about 764 00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:40,380 autonomic nervous system. There are two there's fight and 765 00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:41,940 flight, and there's vagal system. 766 00:42:42,340 --> 00:42:43,220 I'm talking about Fight or Flight. 767 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,240 So Fight and Flight is 1 vagal system another. 768 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:49,800 My point both have to be you can't just say Sympathetic is 769 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,520 the only thing. Because if you think about it, 770 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,680 if I activate sympathetic system, you're gonna be running 771 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,760 around crazy. If you activate the Vagus, 772 00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,880 you're gonna fall down dead because it's gonna stop your 773 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,600 heart. Yeah, but you should know that 774 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,520 the leading neuroscientists in the world. 775 00:43:04,050 --> 00:43:07,330 Support his work if you know from doctor Frank Ochberg who's 776 00:43:07,570 --> 00:43:11,490 who found coined PTSI injury versus disorder, which is 777 00:43:11,490 --> 00:43:15,210 destigmatizing to Stephen Porges, the author of Polyvagal 778 00:43:15,210 --> 00:43:17,730 Theory and the Kinsey Chair of Trauma Research at the Kinsey 779 00:43:17,730 --> 00:43:20,690 Institute. The the the chair of the trauma 780 00:43:20,690 --> 00:43:24,730 research at the Kinsey Institute to Don Faber, who is probably 781 00:43:24,730 --> 00:43:26,890 the most accredited forensic psychiatrist in the United 782 00:43:26,890 --> 00:43:29,850 States and served as Director of Behavioral Health for all of 783 00:43:29,850 --> 00:43:32,490 Humana. To you know, the. 784 00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:36,260 The amount of neuroscientists and incredible minds that 785 00:43:36,260 --> 00:43:40,580 support doctors worth are the Doctor Lipov's innovation of the 786 00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:43,620 smartest, most engaged people in the world. 787 00:43:44,580 --> 00:43:47,900 So the answer Jamie. I I think I I gave my best 788 00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:49,180 answer. I'm not sure if the. 789 00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:51,100 Thing Can you give him the? I'm asking you. 790 00:43:51,580 --> 00:43:54,940 I'm asking you to give Robert in the audience either. 791 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,800 The doing the software chip example or the broken leg 792 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,760 example from your Oh no absolutely. 793 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,080 So fight and flight system over activation basically activates 794 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,320 the limbic system. And I always say limbic system 795 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,360 isn't happy. Nobody's happy because such a 796 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:16,640 basic part of the body it needs to become to be functional human 797 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,760 being, you need a limbic system is what sits below the neocortex 798 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,940 which does our higher functions. So the bottom line is, you know, 799 00:44:24,940 --> 00:44:27,340 to be able to sleep in a function, to be able to have 800 00:44:27,340 --> 00:44:31,060 normal sexual function, in order to be able to eat, fight and 801 00:44:31,060 --> 00:44:33,500 flight, system needs to be calm and collected. 802 00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:38,220 Yeah, I agree there for sure. So where, where do you see this 803 00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:40,100 going in the future? Like, is this something that 804 00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:43,220 people use as like a frontline defense against chronic stress? 805 00:44:43,220 --> 00:44:46,740 Like they they feel elevated stress, they automatically go 806 00:44:46,740 --> 00:44:50,220 and get one of these routines scheduled and and go through 807 00:44:50,220 --> 00:44:53,420 that in tandem with? Meditation, mindfulness, all 808 00:44:53,420 --> 00:44:56,180 that good stuff or or what do you see it going in the future? 809 00:44:56,260 --> 00:45:00,180 Yeah, let's talk, let's talk. In 10 years, what do you think? 810 00:45:00,380 --> 00:45:04,180 1015 years. So I'm gonna be working on a 811 00:45:04,220 --> 00:45:08,100 device that will tell somebody if their system sympathetic 812 00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:11,780 system is overactive, cuz I'd like a biological device that 813 00:45:11,780 --> 00:45:14,260 will tell us that. And I think that's possible. 814 00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:19,860 I have actually. I'm meeting with a group on next 815 00:45:20,060 --> 00:45:22,340 Wednesday regarding that type of device. 816 00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:27,900 So if I can have, I would like PTSD or PTSI assessment to be 817 00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:30,620 the 5th lightest side. You come and see a doctor, they 818 00:45:30,620 --> 00:45:32,940 check your blood pressure, they check your pulse, blah blah 819 00:45:32,940 --> 00:45:35,940 blah. And you go you have PTSD, PTSI, 820 00:45:36,060 --> 00:45:37,500 Let's see if we can help you with that. 821 00:45:38,260 --> 00:45:41,820 So first diagnosis, always in medicine, you don't wanna shoot 822 00:45:41,820 --> 00:45:46,380 AIM, you wanna aim, shoot. So first diagnostic, second of 823 00:45:46,380 --> 00:45:49,240 all, I think it's gonna be much more accepted and it's going to 824 00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:52,680 be integral part of all the new things coming online such as 825 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,160 TMS, such as psilocybin, such as drugs like that. 826 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,080 I think there's going to be a significant shift in psychiatric 827 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,560 drugs currently used to a more effective because now people are 828 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:10,040 looking for a rapidly acting prolonged impact with high 829 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,960 compliance because coming in and having an injection from me or 830 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,720 my associates, it's no big deal. You don't have to keep taking 831 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:24,400 meds for next eight weeks. If it if it starts to work, this 832 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,400 takes 8 weeks to 3-4 months, you know that that's really is. 833 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,320 People are not straight away from that. 834 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,240 If you he's basically saying if you use resilience techniques, 835 00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:36,560 this thing can last for a long time if not forever. 836 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,240 But you need to take care of it. Also, let me finish my future 837 00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:41,280 prediction. OK. 838 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,320 OK. And then I want to ask you a 839 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,840 question. OK, sure, sure, sure. 840 00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:49,660 Anyway, so and the other thing is like for example in combat, 841 00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:54,940 I've been trying to train a bunch of ducks from Ukraine to 842 00:46:54,940 --> 00:46:58,180 start doing this and I've had a devil over time doing that. 843 00:46:58,180 --> 00:47:00,580 I've had a number of my friends are trying to connect me. 844 00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:04,300 It's been difficult but in a war-torn country it is a 845 00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:06,940 complete disaster. What's going on? 846 00:47:06,940 --> 00:47:09,580 Mental health. And it's gonna be, even if war 847 00:47:09,580 --> 00:47:13,740 stops today, it's still gonna be a disaster that will have a very 848 00:47:13,740 --> 00:47:17,830 long tail. So I think there is a potential 849 00:47:17,830 --> 00:47:21,710 of societal level intervention using that being human, being 850 00:47:21,710 --> 00:47:25,910 being robotics, which I have actually planned for long term 851 00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:30,190 to produce robotics to be able to use in battlefields and in 852 00:47:30,590 --> 00:47:33,910 sites of disaster. So that's all that's possible. 853 00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:36,110 I mean, technologically everything I'm describing is 854 00:47:36,110 --> 00:47:39,750 available today off the shelf. All that's missing is the will. 855 00:47:44,870 --> 00:47:50,890 Doctor Lipov. Can you, can you tell Robert in 856 00:47:50,890 --> 00:47:55,730 our audience about Semmelweis? Oh yeah, it's my favorite story 857 00:47:55,730 --> 00:47:58,210 actually. So people have asked me, so how 858 00:47:58,210 --> 00:48:02,490 did you survive through all this crazy stuff with people? 859 00:48:02,530 --> 00:48:06,930 You know I've had people attack me in the press and all type of 860 00:48:06,970 --> 00:48:09,450 interesting things so that you know it's like my answer is at 861 00:48:09,450 --> 00:48:14,490 least I'm not over wise which I already pronounce it egon so. 862 00:48:14,610 --> 00:48:18,840 Semmelweis several ways, yeah. So that physician was born 863 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:25,920 hungry. He went to Vienna to be to 864 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,120 medical school, and he was observing. 865 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,720 He found that when women gave birth at home, the chance of 866 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:37,960 death was 1/3, as opposed to dying in a house delivering 867 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,000 children in the hospital. So he tried to figure it out. 868 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,120 Then he wrote papers on that. He wrote a book on that and then 869 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,240 he went to the doctor's place. He said something is wrong, 870 00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:49,640 you're transmitting something and you're killing people. 871 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,040 And then he followed ducks around. 872 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,880 Turns out in that age they would go dissect dead people, do 873 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,680 autopsies and run over and deliver kids. 874 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,880 So you know, and in that respect I was is pretty obvious. 875 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,920 So what happens with him is they put so much pressure on him. 876 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,560 He had a psychiatric breakdown, they put him in a psych ward and 877 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,980 he was beaten to death within a month of admission. 20 years 878 00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:17,060 after death, he was pronounced savior of babies. 879 00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:21,980 So that has really been an inspiration for me that I'm 880 00:49:21,980 --> 00:49:24,900 still kicking and I'm still have a chance to change what I'm 881 00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:27,620 trying to do within my lifetime. I don't have to die first. 882 00:49:28,060 --> 00:49:30,300 Yeah, yeah. And I'm familiar with with his 883 00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:34,420 story and it's interesting, you know, like the the the leaps and 884 00:49:34,420 --> 00:49:36,940 bounds that we make when we discover what what is the 885 00:49:36,940 --> 00:49:39,420 driving factor for time, you know, for some of these deaths. 886 00:49:40,660 --> 00:49:42,340 So I think what you're doing is certainly. 887 00:49:43,090 --> 00:49:46,250 On the tip of the spear, and it seems like it's much, much less 888 00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:50,570 invasive and certainly more empowering than just telling 889 00:49:50,570 --> 00:49:53,770 people that they've got this disorder they can't do anything 890 00:49:53,770 --> 00:49:55,010 with. I mean, who wants to hear that 891 00:49:55,010 --> 00:49:58,330 and all of? The Yeah, it's a double. 892 00:49:58,330 --> 00:50:00,010 It's a double injury, Robert, right. 893 00:50:00,130 --> 00:50:02,570 It's another injury. And I think when you look at 894 00:50:02,570 --> 00:50:05,850 what's happening with like the opioid crisis and people self 895 00:50:05,850 --> 00:50:09,690 medicating through significantly unhealthier means like anything 896 00:50:09,690 --> 00:50:11,810 that can you know, move the needle in the right direction 897 00:50:11,810 --> 00:50:14,070 from that. I'm in full support of. 898 00:50:15,710 --> 00:50:18,670 You know, it's. Yeah, I mean I'd like Doctor 899 00:50:18,670 --> 00:50:22,350 Lipov to end with his broken leg analogy because it is his 900 00:50:22,350 --> 00:50:24,270 innovation. But, you know, I was talking to 901 00:50:25,390 --> 00:50:29,190 the guy, the, the CEO of the private equity firm that started 902 00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:31,710 these seller centers all over the world. 903 00:50:31,710 --> 00:50:35,430 And you know, I asked him, you know, he's a data guy And I 904 00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:39,270 asked him, you know, do you think that I'm hyperbolic? 905 00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:42,630 Do you when I say to you that? That there's nothing else that 906 00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:50,310 is more fundamental to what can, you know, improve a person based 907 00:50:50,310 --> 00:50:54,150 on the effort and time that exists and how profound that 908 00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:56,430 improvement can be in such a short period of time. 909 00:50:56,630 --> 00:51:00,510 When I say it's the fundamental fundamental mechanism, you know, 910 00:51:00,510 --> 00:51:02,630 in in the book The invisible machine, and we call it the 911 00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:06,070 invisible machine because this is a simple mechanism, that's 912 00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:09,230 you, we just can't see it. But it's there like a broken leg 913 00:51:09,390 --> 00:51:12,920 which you can see. You know, do you think that 914 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,600 that's true, like as we as I claimed in the book or we 915 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,720 claimed in the book, You know, there's things I could say as an 916 00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:21,160 artist that maybe a scientist is not going to say, even if they 917 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,440 believe them. OK. 918 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:24,960 Or do you think I was hyperbolic? 919 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:31,840 And he said to me, Line them up, Jamie, You tell me anything that 920 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,800 can do anything close to this and give someone hope and give 921 00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,840 someone a chance in a day or two. 922 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,590 There's nothing. And so I would like, you know, 923 00:51:43,590 --> 00:51:46,870 Doctor Lipop, to explain, you know, why we called the book The 924 00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:50,430 Invisible Machine and, you know, the broken leg analogy that he 925 00:51:50,430 --> 00:51:52,110 often uses. Yeah, yeah. 926 00:51:52,110 --> 00:51:55,110 Tell me about the book for sure. I want to hear about this so 927 00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:58,110 really quickly. So invisible machine, It's it 928 00:51:58,110 --> 00:52:01,030 stands for basically sympathetic system. 929 00:52:01,030 --> 00:52:03,590 Most people don't think about it, but if you dissect any blood 930 00:52:03,590 --> 00:52:06,310 vessel, if you use a microscope, you can't really see it. 931 00:52:06,310 --> 00:52:09,150 You'll see little fiber, sympathetic fibers, which is 932 00:52:09,150 --> 00:52:12,230 really interesting. You can see a stellar ganglion, 933 00:52:12,590 --> 00:52:15,590 but you need to actually operate and open up the neck, which most 934 00:52:15,590 --> 00:52:19,630 people don't like. But basically the broken leg 935 00:52:19,630 --> 00:52:24,590 analogy is that to me as a pain physician who's done years of 936 00:52:24,590 --> 00:52:26,510 this, it's pretty straightforward. 937 00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:28,670 If sympathetic system is overactive, you need to calm it 938 00:52:28,670 --> 00:52:31,350 down South. To me it's no different. 939 00:52:31,350 --> 00:52:34,430 You can actually measure that using thermometers and stuff 940 00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:36,430 like that. So if you can scan a brain and 941 00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:40,140 say, hey, this is going on, all you need to do is treat it. 942 00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:44,300 And especially dealing with special forces guys and women, 943 00:52:44,780 --> 00:52:48,140 what's interesting there is like, if they go, you mean 944 00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:51,300 there's somebody actually inside of me that's really off and you 945 00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:53,500 can reverse it? Yeah, absolutely. 946 00:52:53,500 --> 00:52:55,340 Here's the studies. This is based on this and this 947 00:52:55,340 --> 00:52:57,380 is based on that. It's no different. 948 00:52:57,940 --> 00:53:01,100 As opposed to somebody saying you have this disorder and it's 949 00:53:01,100 --> 00:53:03,380 going to be forever, you'll never get better. 950 00:53:03,780 --> 00:53:05,660 That's just I think that's criminal to do. 951 00:53:06,250 --> 00:53:09,010 But broken leg, if you take an X-ray, I haven't seen one 952 00:53:09,010 --> 00:53:11,210 person. I used to be the yard dog before 953 00:53:11,210 --> 00:53:14,450 and trauma surgeon before I got into pain and the seizure. 954 00:53:15,490 --> 00:53:18,650 You know if you show somebody a broken leg on X-ray, they go, 955 00:53:18,650 --> 00:53:21,970 OK, it hurts every time I step, OK how about a cast? 956 00:53:21,970 --> 00:53:23,330 OK. There's no problem. 957 00:53:23,330 --> 00:53:28,010 There's no no drama, no, no, no nothing, right. 958 00:53:29,530 --> 00:53:30,810 There's no problem going on there. 959 00:53:31,050 --> 00:53:34,190 And actually the physician, it's much easier because the the 960 00:53:34,190 --> 00:53:37,510 difference if you look at physicians in 17th century, the 961 00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:41,870 way they treated the PTSD, whatever it was called then and 962 00:53:41,870 --> 00:53:44,870 it was called battle tremble or something like that, it was 963 00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:46,630 similar. You know, it's like put them in 964 00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:49,510 a quiet room, do this. We didn't then you have meds, 965 00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:51,870 but they would say, you know, it's like everything's going to 966 00:53:51,870 --> 00:53:54,750 be fine. Those are prelude to psychiatric 967 00:53:54,750 --> 00:53:57,510 interventions and unfortunately treatments would not be very 968 00:53:57,510 --> 00:54:00,310 effective and PTSD has been went out forever. 969 00:54:01,140 --> 00:54:03,700 So Roman soldiers originally I think was the first time they 970 00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:08,420 described it in modern era, first modern era term came from 971 00:54:08,420 --> 00:54:10,780 civil war, it was called soldier's heart and the 972 00:54:10,780 --> 00:54:14,460 scripture was not a disorder. Basically they describe people 973 00:54:14,460 --> 00:54:17,540 who are faintly looking, they had far away looks, they 974 00:54:17,540 --> 00:54:20,900 couldn't sleep basically observation what's a disorder? 975 00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:23,420 I have no idea what disorder respectly, I just don't 976 00:54:23,420 --> 00:54:27,660 understand the term. Yeah, well, So what is the main? 977 00:54:28,170 --> 00:54:30,610 Roadblock, bottleneck that you are facing currently like what 978 00:54:30,610 --> 00:54:33,010 what's keeping this? We kind of talked a little bit 979 00:54:33,010 --> 00:54:35,570 about some of the the bureaucratic tape that is hard 980 00:54:35,570 --> 00:54:38,090 to cut through as to why this is not more mainstream. 981 00:54:38,090 --> 00:54:41,770 But like on a on a specific level with y'all currently, what 982 00:54:41,770 --> 00:54:43,810 are y'all facing right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. 983 00:54:43,810 --> 00:54:46,850 That's a simple question. There are a couple of things. 984 00:54:46,850 --> 00:54:50,970 One, I was told that I have a graduality problem. 985 00:54:50,970 --> 00:54:53,730 It's very hard to believe that something has been done since 986 00:54:53,730 --> 00:54:57,050 1926. Somebody like me, who's not from 987 00:54:57,090 --> 00:55:01,470 Harvard or some massive institution, came up with the 988 00:55:01,470 --> 00:55:03,910 use of that. And I have explanation for that. 989 00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:08,790 So one, it's hard to believe. Two, it's in order to accept it 990 00:55:08,790 --> 00:55:10,630 fully, you need to start thinking. 991 00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:17,030 You need to marry psychiatry and biology, neuropsychiatry, 992 00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:20,790 neurobiology, genetics, psychogenetic, all of that which 993 00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:23,430 is already here. But the people who hold the 994 00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:26,870 reins are psychiatrists. Some of them are totally on 995 00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:30,090 board and some of them going woah, no, no, no, no, no, no, 996 00:55:30,090 --> 00:55:32,250 no, no, no, no. This is working great. 997 00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:34,610 What would it be? Why are we changing anything? 998 00:55:35,010 --> 00:55:39,130 You know, I'd say I used to be a big fan of psych analysis when I 999 00:55:39,130 --> 00:55:41,610 was in my 20s, but I'm not anymore. 1000 00:55:42,730 --> 00:55:48,210 So I think what I my hope, my firm hope is that the study done 1001 00:55:48,210 --> 00:55:51,810 by NYU, which is NASA institution done with all the 1002 00:55:51,810 --> 00:55:54,650 right things, which is functional MRI and everything 1003 00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:59,040 else, if they demonstrate conclusively that there's a 1004 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,000 massive change or significant change that's proportional to 1005 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,440 what we actually see in behavior, then I think 1006 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,160 roadblocks will be going away. Then psychiatrists will embrace 1007 00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,080 it. In fact, my biggest opponent 1008 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,760 shall we say, in whose psychiatrist in the Navy wrote a 1009 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,680 pretty interesting study which was inaccurate and poorly done. 1010 00:56:23,500 --> 00:56:26,140 And then I said, you know, it's like that study means nothing. 1011 00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:30,140 And I wrote letters to the editor and they refused my 1012 00:56:30,140 --> 00:56:33,660 letters. It was a complete crazy mess, he 1013 00:56:33,660 --> 00:56:37,500 went on, and he will went on to learn how to do Style Gangdam 1014 00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:41,380 blog, which I find the most interesting kind of funny. 1015 00:56:41,620 --> 00:56:43,700 And when does that study get published? 1016 00:56:43,860 --> 00:56:52,530 Tentatively, we may get halfway report in Q2Q3 next year. 1017 00:56:52,570 --> 00:56:54,130 It's been going on for a bit in New York. 1018 00:56:55,010 --> 00:56:57,930 So if that comes out and it shows what I hope it will show 1019 00:56:58,370 --> 00:57:02,130 that would be, I think that will be a massive change. 1020 00:57:03,050 --> 00:57:06,650 Not only I think it will save lives for one, even if that's 1021 00:57:06,650 --> 00:57:10,050 not adopted fully SGB, but if people really embrace the 1022 00:57:10,050 --> 00:57:14,450 conversation, PKSI, PKSI, then I think there's gonna be a huge 1023 00:57:14,450 --> 00:57:17,930 change from people saying, wait, hold on, I actually have a brain 1024 00:57:17,930 --> 00:57:19,370 change. I can actually know about the 1025 00:57:19,370 --> 00:57:21,940 brain change. I expect biological treatments 1026 00:57:21,940 --> 00:57:25,180 and somebody will figure out biological treatments and I hope 1027 00:57:25,220 --> 00:57:27,260 DSR is going to be a big part of it. 1028 00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:34,180 There are other ones out there, TMS, which is basically way to 1029 00:57:34,180 --> 00:57:36,500 change the brain, use electrical waves and things like that. 1030 00:57:37,260 --> 00:57:40,340 I think psilocybin has a lot of potential and things like that. 1031 00:57:40,340 --> 00:57:44,340 But I think expectation, one of the big massive things may 1032 00:57:44,340 --> 00:57:48,220 change is expectational change. Instead of living with a 1033 00:57:48,220 --> 00:57:51,290 disorder the rest of your life, thinking about killing yourself 1034 00:57:51,290 --> 00:57:54,250 every day, you can say I'll get treated. 1035 00:57:54,490 --> 00:57:57,130 I understand my problem, OK? It's real. 1036 00:57:57,130 --> 00:58:00,170 It's not because I'm weak or because I'm a woman or because 1037 00:58:00,170 --> 00:58:03,410 I'm this because I'm that. It just it's gonna be a broken 1038 00:58:03,410 --> 00:58:04,610 leg. It's gonna be normal. 1039 00:58:04,610 --> 00:58:07,370 You're gonna go see a doc. And God willing, I'll be able to 1040 00:58:07,890 --> 00:58:10,370 make the device. He'll be able to predict who's 1041 00:58:10,370 --> 00:58:13,850 gonna do best with the Sr. I think it's gonna change the 1042 00:58:13,850 --> 00:58:17,770 landscape of psychiatry and psychology and mental health 1043 00:58:17,770 --> 00:58:20,470 forever. Well, I'm certainly hopeful that 1044 00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:22,710 it's empowering. You know, like if people have an 1045 00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:26,110 option or an outlet that they can use to get some forward 1046 00:58:26,110 --> 00:58:29,630 momentum going and then be hopefully more in tune with what 1047 00:58:29,630 --> 00:58:32,190 they can do proactively on their end as an individual. 1048 00:58:32,190 --> 00:58:35,910 I mean, I think that's all great and I think that y'all are being 1049 00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:39,750 innovative in trying to figure out solutions to go against the 1050 00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:42,070 grand the status quo, because the status quo is certainly 1051 00:58:42,390 --> 00:58:44,830 trending in the wrong direction and people seem to be struggling 1052 00:58:44,830 --> 00:58:46,550 with this more so than ever now. So I think. 1053 00:58:47,170 --> 00:58:50,570 You know, y'all looking outside the boxes is paramount. 1054 00:58:51,450 --> 00:58:54,690 Yeah, just keep in mind COVID made mental health mark the 1055 00:58:54,690 --> 00:58:57,210 worst. What's interesting is that I 1056 00:58:57,210 --> 00:59:00,170 wrote a paper on that hasn't gotten published yet, but COVID 1057 00:59:00,170 --> 00:59:04,170 itself activates and fight a flood system, so COVID virus 1058 00:59:04,490 --> 00:59:08,090 itself can actually cause PTSD by activating the invisible 1059 00:59:08,090 --> 00:59:09,690 machine. Isn't that weird? 1060 00:59:10,770 --> 00:59:12,890 Mm hmm. I I do think there's a little 1061 00:59:12,890 --> 00:59:15,930 bit of humility, you know, in that with Doctor Labat, you know 1062 00:59:16,050 --> 00:59:22,490 is saying in the sense that you know TMS, psilocybin, you can do 1063 00:59:22,490 --> 00:59:25,730 those things and then you're going to get benefit from them. 1064 00:59:26,050 --> 00:59:28,970 But you're still going to have an the sprouting and you're 1065 00:59:28,970 --> 00:59:29,890 still going to have a broken leg. 1066 00:59:29,890 --> 00:59:31,330 You can't see which is fundamental. 1067 00:59:31,330 --> 00:59:34,730 Your fundamental symptoms are coming from that. 1068 00:59:35,230 --> 00:59:37,750 So you're going to get way more out of TMS and you're going to 1069 00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:41,710 get way more out of suicide. And if you do this first, I I 1070 00:59:41,710 --> 00:59:45,630 had AI was in Fort Bragg and having this conversation with a 1071 00:59:45,630 --> 00:59:49,270 very esteemed psychologists who've been brought in to treat 1072 00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:53,070 special Forces fighters. And he was in the room fighting 1073 00:59:53,070 --> 00:59:57,390 me, saying, Amy, there's all these other things like TMS and 1074 00:59:57,390 --> 01:00:00,270 this and that and the thing I do and. 1075 01:00:01,210 --> 01:00:03,370 You know, how can you say this is the, you know, she was having 1076 01:00:03,370 --> 01:00:08,650 an argue with me and I on camera and I said, OK, well let me ask 1077 01:00:08,650 --> 01:00:09,930 you this. I don't want to say who she is, 1078 01:00:10,250 --> 01:00:11,490 but it's in the book. OK. 1079 01:00:12,330 --> 01:00:15,170 Which if you, if you have any suspicion that what we're saying 1080 01:00:15,170 --> 01:00:17,330 is true, read the book. I think anybody. 1081 01:00:17,530 --> 01:00:19,530 There's no way you could read The Invisible Machine. 1082 01:00:20,130 --> 01:00:22,370 It's reads like a novel, and there's and there's a lot of 1083 01:00:22,370 --> 01:00:24,250 science in it, and there's no way you could read that book and 1084 01:00:24,250 --> 01:00:27,970 not know, at least by the end of that book that what you're 1085 01:00:27,970 --> 01:00:31,430 experiencing from the effects of trauma are 100% biological. 1086 01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:36,750 OK, but I said to this psychologist, OK, there are all 1087 01:00:36,750 --> 01:00:39,350 these other things, but what if somebody was in really bad shape 1088 01:00:39,350 --> 01:00:42,470 and they were struggling? What should they do first? 1089 01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:48,870 And then there was a long pause and she said, OK, fair play, 1090 01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:51,910 they should do this. So Jamie, I have to tell you a 1091 01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:56,270 compliment. So we have had at least five, 1092 01:00:56,270 --> 01:00:59,350 maybe 7 people who this book has saved their lives because 1093 01:00:59,350 --> 01:01:02,290 they're at it. And they came and treated and 1094 01:01:02,290 --> 01:01:04,130 they said that that opened my eyes. 1095 01:01:05,690 --> 01:01:07,890 Well, I'm certainly intrigued, but I'll definitely be reading 1096 01:01:07,890 --> 01:01:09,490 the book. Is that is that the the best 1097 01:01:09,490 --> 01:01:11,970 place to to get the the foundation here? 1098 01:01:11,970 --> 01:01:13,250 Read the book The Invisible Machine. 1099 01:01:14,170 --> 01:01:16,370 Yeah, I'm getting a. Broad picture if you're 1100 01:01:16,370 --> 01:01:19,250 interested in science, the articles I I, you know I I was. 1101 01:01:19,450 --> 01:01:20,730 I didn't put too much science in it. 1102 01:01:20,810 --> 01:01:25,290 Look up my website if you guys can hold on. 1103 01:01:25,330 --> 01:01:27,770 I I have a couple more pictures, Jamie, and I'll leave it. 1104 01:01:28,220 --> 01:01:31,940 You got it. So if you go on to its ptsi.com, 1105 01:01:31,980 --> 01:01:35,540 that's kind of my we're trying to get people to write as many 1106 01:01:35,540 --> 01:01:38,980 letters as I can. They can leave it on my website, 1107 01:01:38,980 --> 01:01:44,260 I'll send boxes hopefully to American Psychiatric Station. 1108 01:01:46,180 --> 01:01:48,180 So there you go. Perfect, perfect. 1109 01:01:48,180 --> 01:01:51,300 And I will link out to the website as well and make these 1110 01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:53,140 people listening to find you in the book. 1111 01:01:54,620 --> 01:01:55,980 Were you about to say something there as well? 1112 01:01:56,650 --> 01:01:57,330 Go ahead, Jamie. I'm done. 1113 01:01:57,370 --> 01:01:59,050 Yeah. The book is available at Barnes 1114 01:01:59,050 --> 01:01:59,810 and Noble. Get it? 1115 01:01:59,810 --> 01:02:01,530 At any Barnes and Noble in America. 1116 01:02:01,770 --> 01:02:06,450 It's on Amazon. It recently won the National 1117 01:02:06,450 --> 01:02:10,410 Indie Excellence Award. I'm not interested. 1118 01:02:10,410 --> 01:02:11,730 You know, I'm not selling a book. 1119 01:02:11,890 --> 01:02:14,970 I'm trying to put the truth out there. 1120 01:02:15,650 --> 01:02:19,770 OK. So yeah, I mean, I've had. 1121 01:02:19,770 --> 01:02:25,030 I get at least an e-mail a week from someone and and again this 1122 01:02:25,030 --> 01:02:26,750 is my I have a few books coming out. 1123 01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:30,350 I have a children's book coming out in 2 weeks called a kids 1124 01:02:30,350 --> 01:02:33,790 book about resilience. I have other books coming out. 1125 01:02:34,350 --> 01:02:37,070 I have my previous books. I I've never had anything like 1126 01:02:37,070 --> 01:02:38,430 this. I get an e-mail from around the 1127 01:02:38,430 --> 01:02:41,990 world or the country a week from someone that read the book, went 1128 01:02:41,990 --> 01:02:46,990 and got the treatment and had that, had tried everything and 1129 01:02:46,990 --> 01:02:49,950 they got their life back. It's it's that remarkable. 1130 01:02:49,950 --> 01:02:52,110 It's so remarkable when you see people wake up from it. 1131 01:02:52,310 --> 01:02:55,910 The person's only received a local anesthetic, the same two 1132 01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:59,310 dollar amount of bufivican that goes into an epidural because it 1133 01:02:59,310 --> 01:03:02,310 wears off fast, right. So this person is not on drugs 1134 01:03:02,510 --> 01:03:05,390 when they wake up because they're able to channel their 1135 01:03:05,390 --> 01:03:07,910 emotions. Watch Doctor Lipov gets to see 1136 01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:11,750 people wake up or get this, you know, you know 10 minutes later 1137 01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:17,070 have this treatment kick in every single day and you know 1138 01:03:17,070 --> 01:03:21,430 just it's astonishing to see it happen in real time for people 1139 01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:24,510 that have lost hope. You know, it's it's it's or just 1140 01:03:24,510 --> 01:03:26,910 that have carried the weight. You know, I almost feel like 1141 01:03:26,910 --> 01:03:29,750 sometimes depression isn't a real symptom. 1142 01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:33,190 Depression is what you feel from the weight of carrying all the 1143 01:03:33,230 --> 01:03:35,790 other symptoms, the hyper vigilance and the anxiety and 1144 01:03:35,790 --> 01:03:39,190 the sense of doom and the hyper arousal we have to in the 1145 01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:41,430 reactivity. You know when you carry those 1146 01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:44,750 things and the depression is what you feel. 1147 01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:51,680 So yeah that's my that's that's what you know the military 1148 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,920 thanked the military for you know study. 1149 01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,040 You know has already studied this and has has seen these 1150 01:03:56,040 --> 01:04:00,680 results preliminary league. You know Olympic athletes use 1151 01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,280 this to get the response time back after an accident. 1152 01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:08,160 This is in the world, it's mainstream, it's normal and it's 1153 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:12,360 and I believe I'm hopefully in 5-10 years that it's as popular 1154 01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,670 as LASIK and like Doctor, Lipov said, people don't have to live 1155 01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:17,990 their life dealing with something for the rest of their 1156 01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:22,990 life, but can go back to who they are without trauma. 1157 01:04:23,590 --> 01:04:25,590 Well, there are a few things more fulfilling than to see 1158 01:04:25,590 --> 01:04:29,790 someone you know receive hope and see the light in their eyes 1159 01:04:29,790 --> 01:04:32,390 brighten back up again. So I applaud y'all both for 1160 01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:35,990 striving to make that a reality in more mainstream society. 1161 01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:37,510 So by all means, keep doing what you're doing. 1162 01:04:37,510 --> 01:04:39,950 Keep keep fighting the good fighting, you know, being on the 1163 01:04:39,950 --> 01:04:41,710 tip of the spear and thinking innovatively. 1164 01:04:42,090 --> 01:04:44,890 Around all these challenges, I certainly appreciate it. 1165 01:04:44,890 --> 01:04:47,170 I'm intrigued by it. I'll be reading the book, and if 1166 01:04:47,170 --> 01:04:49,410 there's anything I can do to help spread the message, by all 1167 01:04:49,410 --> 01:04:51,970 means just let me know. I love it. 1168 01:04:51,970 --> 01:04:54,570 And the only thing we we missed is I wish I'd asked Eugene to 1169 01:04:54,570 --> 01:04:58,610 talk about an overactive, sympathetic in weight gain. 1170 01:04:58,610 --> 01:05:00,850 But you know, I think you could probably clean that from the 1171 01:05:00,850 --> 01:05:02,890 book. Yeah, also there is an audio 1172 01:05:02,890 --> 01:05:04,890 book by the way. I love audio books, so if you're 1173 01:05:05,370 --> 01:05:07,450 into that, it's available. Awesome. 1174 01:05:07,610 --> 01:05:08,570 Well, I would. There are basic. 1175 01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,280 Robert, this has been an amazing conversation. 1176 01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,600 Seriously, I thank you so much for having you. 1177 01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:15,440 Hey, it's my pleasure, my pleasure. 1178 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,640 It's always interesting for me to chat with people that are 1179 01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,320 doing things that are outside the box, which y'all two are 1180 01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,240 both most certainly doing. So I appreciate that and I 1181 01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:24,440 appreciate y'all taking the time. 1182 01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,200 So until next time, y'all just keep changing outside the box. 1183 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:29,680 But it's inside the box. But I hear, I hear you and thank 1184 01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:31,600 you. Yeah, exactly, exactly. 1185 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:33,960 All right, y'all, take care. Thank you. 1186 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:34,320 Take care.