Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com.
Today I've got special guest a day.
Fox on the line. She is known as the black
carnivore on Instagram. YouTube at all the socials.
She has amassed a great following educating people about
the benefits of carnivore. She's been doing Kido since 2015
she lost a ton of weight, she transitioned to carnivore in
2017, got that all dialed in and refined for.
She's seen, tremendous progress and success with that.
And I wanted to just bring it on the podcast.
Pick her brightness to what has worked well for her.
What has Not what she's learned the process where she sees
things going in the future and just learn more about her
journey. Thoroughly enjoy the
conversation. I've got no doubt that you will
as well, so that for their do sit back, relax and enjoy the
podcast with a day. Fox,
A day. We are live.
How are you good? I'm good.
How are you? I'm doing wonderfully
wonderfully. I feel I owe.
You an apology. We were both at Kita akan and I
totally did not even take the time to stop and reduce myself,
shake your hand. So my apologies there, you've
been in the space for quite some time, you were a cute okan and I
just we never connected. So I feel terrible for that.
So I'm trying to make amends and have you on the podcast now?
Now y'all, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.
Yeah, that was my first event in real life and and actually, my
first thing I've done since, you know, the pandemic began.
So I met an Engaged with more people than I have liked in the
past four years and in that one weekend.
So, you know, unfortunately, I couldn't touch quite everyone,
but I'm glad that we're getting together now.
Yeah, I mean, it's so awesome to have the conference's back.
I just got back from the hard to kill Summit.
This past weekend and that was right out in the hills of Quito
con. And I tell you just nothing
beats being at the conferences. Like, you know, we can do the
zoom calls them to the Instagram messaging and all that stuff,
but it's hard to compete with actually meeting face to face
with people in the space. Yeah, absolutely.
So I'd love to kind of dive into your backstory little bit.
You've been carnivore now. For how long and total?
Well, I started at the end of 2017 but before that I was keto.
First of all year, As well. So I have, you know, sort of a
long span of time there with the ketogenic diet and I, you know,
I continued to what we can dive into this.
But, you know, I kind of continued to look for more
healing because I wasn't quite getting everything that
everybody said you're supposed to get with Quito.
And so that's how I kind of evolved into following
carnivore. What was the motivation for for
Nami and Aikido at the onset to begin with, for you?
What kind of healing we trying to fix?
Yeah, so most of my life I've struggled with weight and, you
know, so I was always, you know, trying different diets and that
sort of thing, and I had hit my all-time highest weight, not
only, But Not only was the weight, the problem in 2015, the
summer of 2015. But I had tons of aches and
pains just a lot of physical body pain, you know, my you
know, my A1C was Rising. I, you know, was not in great
physical shape and I have a mother or had a mother who was
also had been very obese for a long time, struggling with all
the same health problems and, you know, I kind of knew at that
point that if I wanted to live a long time, I really needed to
make a change. So the, the final I guess the
final straw was, I went to my brother's wedding in Montreal
and I don't know if you know anything about the city but you
know the Punch to the city has this big hill or big mountain in
the middle of the city. And it's got, you know, like a
beautiful over. Look at the top and it's like, a
whole thing, you know, first thing to go and climate
everything. So I did that with, you know,
the family and friends and I just thought I was going to die
on my way up. I mean, I was in such bad shape
and it was so hard and, you know, yet I'm being passed by
like grandparents. And, you know, little tiny kids
and all kinds of people were, you know, to see me.
I have no problem at all and so I knew at that point that when I
got home, like something had to change, like I could not
continue as I was. So that was, you know, that was
kind of like the start of it and but it you know, it was really
an evolution from there, you know trying to find the right
thing because you know over the years we've been told all kinds
of things about how to lose weight.
And so I came back you know without necessarily the clearest
idea and back then in 2015 you know we weren't Even using the
word key do, you know, it was just kind of like, low carb or
you know, paleo or, you know, even like Caveman Diet like it.
You know, a lot of these things that have sort of been worked
out, and clarified. Now weren't weren't done then,
so I really had to spend a lot of time and effort, sort of
researching, and kind of figuring things out.
And, but I'm glad that I did because that really Opened up a
whole world for me and I became I started following a well.
What was the ketogenic diet I was in ketosis?
I was feeling a lot better and I started losing weight but like I
you know I had only lost like eight pounds yet, you know, all
my aches and pains were gone. I mean the amount of weight loss
didn't match with how much better I felt.
And so that was fascinating to me and I continue to do all of
this research and really dive in and try to understand like what
is Quito. Jesus, how does it do all of
these things? How, you know, how can I feel,
how is it, that I feel so much better.
So that's, you know, sort of that began, you know, this whole
journey. And from there, I just kind of
went down the rabbit hole. What was your diet like prior to
you diving into key to it that time, like, was it pretty much
just like standard American diet?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'd always been a person
who was like on a diet or totally off.
So, you know, I was swinging between these wild extremes of,
you know, chicken breast and green apples, and peanut butter
and then like, you know, on the other end, you know, McDonald's
and Eminem's and you know, whatever.
So I I was all over the place but but I've tried you know,
just about every kind of eating What was it, that what what type
of content did you stumble upon back then that let you know that
this thing that you were doing was keto and that kind of shed
some light on. Like for me I started about 2015
as well. I think my first introduction to
the keto diet was like as a diet, I think was a with a
podcast with dom D'Agostino and Tim Ferriss, I believe.
Yeah, I was not familiar with that.
I think I found a talker Derek Westman and and then I found
something with the dr. Andreas, I'm felt he's the one
with the diet doctor website, so that's kind of where I started
and, and then continued on from there.
And I, you know, I was familiar with low carb, like I had heard
of that before when I in the 90s, when I think the fourth
Version of the Atkins book came out.
I had done it then and so I was aware of and familiar with it.
I just at the time, you know what, it wasn't something that
seems sustainable for me and you know, so I hadn't really kind of
kept it in the Forefront of my mind.
I feel like anybody that started Ketone back in 2015 it's
interesting I always like connecting with you all because
we're all kind of on the same Journey like there's a lot of
people that come into the space now.
It's a totally different landscape than it was back then
because we kind of got into it before there was any books or
podcast or our blog post or any of that stuff.
No, social media accounts. There was no usernames with key,
do anything in their name. So, we would kind of just like,
it's like the wild west. We're just figuring things out
in the test and experiment, and just kind of learning on the
Fly. Whereas, now people come into
the space and they're almost like, inundated to the point of,
you know, not knowing what to do, because it's just so much
information. Much of which is conflicting.
So, like when you were seeing success with Quito and
Eventually carnivore. Like I'm assuming you probably
just stuck to the Bare Bones Basics and we're seeing success
with that. And a lot of people I think need
to hear those Basics especially if they're coming to the space
now, they're just getting all this.
All this like, incredibly high level or really deep in the
weeds information that they're not really finding actionable.
Yeah, I mean when I first got started, I just kind of stuck to
vegetables and me and I didn't do like artificial sweeteners
and then of course, there weren't even any keto products
back then. So I didn't do any of that
nowadays. If I were just coming to the
space. Yes, I believe that I would not,
I would think that I was doing he do and I would totally not be
doing keto and it's funny. One of my family members, I
reached out and was like, oh my God, I'm so excited.
Everyone kedo, I ordered my kit and you know, getting the shakes
and then I have these meals and I was like wait why is this
kedo? I mean I don't I don't really
understand why this has been you know, sold to you as a keto
program. So I I think that you know, now
you can just label things Quito and you know and then that's
kind. Of you know that's that's enough
then that's all that people care about but it's very confusing
for people and in fact and you know in the same is true for
carnivore. I think that a lot of times I
have a lot of people who are, you know, who want to start with
carnivore but are you know, totally overwhelmed about, you
know what to what to do and how to do it.
And, and they really just need like you Some pretty clear and
solid guidance. And so that's something that I
do try to provide on my channel is just kind of like, you know,
how to do this, how to do this without, you know, confusing
yourself. It is crazy.
How we, as a species have a tendency to overcomplicate
things that are really truly quite simple.
Like, if you distill, you know, keto down to its simplest form,
it's simply to eat good quality nutritious.
You know, foods that are not heavily processed and tend to
have a Relatively High, you know, macro ratio and optimal
intake of protein in a very low carbohydrate intake.
If you distill carnivore down to its Basics, it's pretty much
just eating predominantly animal based foods and then somehow or
another we find a way to totally screw that up.
Right. Absolutely.
So when you said you transition to carnivore in 2017, what was
the motivation for making that shift?
Was there like we just plant towing with what you're doing
prior or you start to have some some GI distress with the
veggies? I what was the motivation behind
that? Well, I actually was I wasn't
getting all of the benefits that I heard everybody else.
Getting, you know, that had to do with with allergies and, you
know, with autoimmune stuff. And so that's and so over the
two years that I had been doing, he do, you know, I continue to
listen to talks. And so I would hear people
talking about the carnivore diet.
You know, periodically and so, you know, it was sort of on my
radar, but not something that I, you know, wanted to or at the
time thought I should try, and then I finally decided to try
it. So for Me Not only was being in
ketosis, really important terms of, you know, like my physical
body, and losing weight, and bringing my glucose down, and
all of that. But I have a lot of allergies as
well. And I think that carnivore was
Super, super helpful for me because it reduced my exposure
to those things. Which allowed me to have much
greater healing. So, taking out the vegetables, I
felt a lot better and then On top of that, when I also took
out, you know, took out Dairy, it was like a light switch.
I mean, the change was night and day, I was so much better and so
much more improved that it was, you know, it was just really
stunning for me. So I and in 2017, the end of
2017, beginning of 2018 miasma what is was at its all-time
worst. So I got in fact, was that Host
with asthma at that time. Although I've always had
breathing problems but no one had ever said, you know, you
have asthma but it was so bad at that point that I had to go to
urgent care twice because I just couldn't breathe and you know,
finally went to a pulmonologist and did all that.
And but you know, basically they said you have allergy induced
asthma. So you know just like whatever I
was allergic to is just making it hard for me to breathe making
my skin like, you know, freak out with excellent.
'He and making my nose run and behavior.
So I think out the dairy and instantly it all stopped and I
had been, you know, taking Flonase and then and Benadryl
around the clock and Claritin for the allergies and Sudafed
and then for asthma the adventure and Singulair and had
an emergency emergency inhaler the Albuterol and they gave you
prednisone in the beginning because it was so bad.
So, you know, so all of this was going on.
Just it all stops when I went carnivore.
So some people I think can just do just fine on keto and that's
as far as I need to go and other people.
See much. Greater healing on Carnivore.
Have you ever done like a, like a food sensitivity test or
anything pre or post reduction or elimination of dairy to see
if you're popping for dairy specifically?
Well no not that. I mean I had been tested for
allergies in the past and I was told that I was allergic to corn
and soy which as you can imagine is in everything and in fact
it's funny in the early 2000's I went to a functional doctor.
Functional yeah phone functional medicine doctor and he you know
told me basically that I was allergic to Soy.
Corn and that I should eat what he called the pays woman diet.
And that is to say, I should only eat things that don't come
in a bag or a box or have any kind of nutrition label.
And he was like, you know, super like Lefty and, you know, earthy
and crunchy and everything. So I thought it was going to be
like, oh, you know, you got to be a vegetarian or vegan like
blah blah blah but no, he was definitely not that and he, you
know and he basically Describe that kind of edik.
We didn't like go into like what specific things were a problem.
But you know, just getting corn and soya, the diet is very hard,
you know, because it's in so many products and you know, in
like a skin stuff and medicine and you know, like corn is used
as filler and all types of things totally.
So, like now you've been doing Carnival for some time and you
kind of get everything down then optimize for you individually.
How would you define Carnival? That seems to be all these
different versions of carnivore. This is a different versions of
Quito. It's like for you, what would
you describe as your ideal carnivore diet?
Well, the way I talk about it in the black carnivore Community.
I encourage people to, you know, to think about it, like three
different buckets. You can be strict carnivore,
moderate carnivore, or relaxed carnivore.
So strict would be where you're eating entirely from the Animal
Kingdom, you know? No eggs, milk cheese, the fish
blah, blah blah but just from the Animal Kingdom and then you
have to decide as an individual. You know, whether you have
sensitivities to further thing. So for me I'm not including
Dairy and I also have to be careful about eggs.
I do eat eggs but I am very judicious about how often I
introduced because I feel like I do have some sensitivity day and
then people who are moderate carnivores also include things.
Like low sugar fruits, like, avocados and olives.
They also include coffee and herbs and spices.
So, most people fall in that category, and then there are
people who would call themselves relax carnivores where they're
also including artificial sweeteners, or they'll have
some, you know, vegetables like they go out to a restaurant, and
there's a side that's included, they will eat it.
So this would be, you know, people who maybe consider
themselves to be keto for or, you know, 90% carnivore.
So I think of that all is being part of the spectrum of being
carnivore. So, you know, I certainly
welcome to everyone into that space and I think that you just
kind of have to decide which path you're going to follow
based off of what your goals are.
So for me, I like to feel good and I feel best when I'm really
strict for other people. You know, that morning cup of
coffee with some heavy whipping cream, And Stevia is more
important, you know, that they have that perfect cup of coffee,
then to follow some strict rule about, you know, what they can
and can't eat. And as long as that doesn't, you
know, reduce their enjoyment of the rest of the day because
they're not feeling as well, then, you know who cares?
Like, you know, the whole goal is to feel better.
And so you just have to find the thing that helps you feel
better. No, I totally agree.
I like that. Non dog.
Manic approach for sure. I feel like I'm I don't ever
consider myself carnivore because I'm a man.
I'm not eating strictly animal-based foods.
Like, I'll pretty much like I meet, and then I'll have like
some keto bricks. And then, on a rare occasion,
I'll have some vegetables, but it's pretty rare that I had
veggies like, I don't ever experienced any benefit from
having veggies, like, apart from just a simple change in.
What's on my plate? Little different taste and
texture, but I don't ever experienced any, like,
improvement from a digestive standpoint and I never
experienced an improvement from a performance or energy.
Point, like, I've never experienced any inherent
positive thing, come from the inclusion of vegetables apart
from Simply a different taste on my tongue.
So it's weird that so many people are so adamant about
having veggies from a nutrient standpoint.
There's been this massive push as of late.
It seems within a carnivore space to include fruit and
honey, you know, for, for performance.
But also you hear a lot of this talk of need.
Going to incorporate more carbohydrates for females and
their hormonal needs specifically, but it sounds as
though you've been pretty strict with your carnivore.
In the sense of you're not having like, you know, car Buffs
or something on a monthly basis. It seems I am not doing that.
I, you know, I think that that it's possible that that is
beneficial for some women. I think, you know, there's a
variety of ways that you need to do this for it to be a benefit,
but I know that I also struggle with, you know, addiction to
Sugar. So if I'm gonna, you know, do
carb ups and stuff, that's just going to be, you know, it's just
a disaster waiting to happen this, so, yeah, yeah, fuck the
psychological. Dividing plays such a row, like
we're always in this debate between what is optimal for
human, you know, existence and it is funny because, you know,
as a specie that there's so many different versions of what
people deemed to be the best diets where you don't want to
experience that with other species, it's just within the
human race, but so much of it comes and boils down to our
psychological response to the foods that we eat.
And there definitely seems to be an overwhelming sense of many,
many people having a difficult time moderating their
carbohydrate intake. Whether that's because, Of the
sugars or are just. Who knows what it's from
exactly. Like.
Who knows? What had to pinpoint that.
But I don't see too many people having addictive Tendencies
towards, you know, meat and eggs.
Like I do with people towards something like a cake and
cookies, you know, Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, you know there there are certainly variations and there
are some people for whom just like the act of eating itself
can be part of the, you know, their their addiction.
But you know, for most part, I think when you cut out the carbs
and the processed foods like it really helps you to to be able
to look at your own relationship to food and re-examine you know,
re-evaluate that relationship. What when people are coming into
the carnivore space now. I mean, I feel like there's the
Carnivora has is a beautiful thing in the sense that it
really does distill things down to a, pretty simple form.
I mean, there's not really a lot of ways to mess up, carnivore in
the sense of it's much harder to make, you know, processed foods
that are carnivore nature like it's harder to screw up corner
of whether it is something like paleo, or ketu or any of that
nature. So when people are coming to the
carnivore space, now, what are some some Big pitfalls.
You're seeing people struggle with.
I feel like one thing that I've experienced is that people are
often times eating really lean cuts of meat at the expense of
not having hardly any fat in their diet and yet, they're not
eating any carbs. They're pretty much just eating
protein at the expense of not enough fat, not enough carbs, so
they're not really having a great substrate for energy.
But what are some things that you're seeing as a pitfall for
people coming into the space? Yeah, I think that was the first
thing that I was going to say. I mean, it's essentially, I
think you have people who are like, you know, who do key do,
or who just do, you know where regular dieting and cutting
calories and they're like, oh let me try this carnivore thing
I guess I will you do not have the broccoli and rice that I
normally have with my chicken breast or my salmon.
And that's what I'll have and and so as you said, they get to
the point where they are hitting their protein requirements.
The day but not providing enough calories and energy and so, you
know, your body can use sugar for energy or a can use fat for
energy. But if you cut those both out
like you just don't have enough fuel to actually function.
And so you end up feeling horrible and you know and then
people walk away like oh that didn't work.
And and then the other thing I think is that people have fallen
into the myths that we I've been taught that all red meat is
fatty that it's all bad. That the best meat to eat is
Fish and Chicken. But once you take out the carbs
and the sugar, you'll discover that meets that, I mean, really
that beef and other kinds of red meat from ruminant animals is,
what is most satiating? And so people who try to do
carnivore on Fish and Chicken, just they just don't do well in
Long run. You know they just get to the
point where, you know, they don't have a stake or they're
gonna just fall out. Yeah.
Or they quit or they quit? Yeah, totally agreed.
It's funny. Like I see something people.
There's a big push for really high protein right now and it
probably talking about this at length on many, my other podcast
episode but I feel like it's a response to the main shift, for
high-fat that occurred you know, a year to bank and the Pendulum
has swung too far, the other direction, and people are really
pushing protein right now. Because There definitely are a
demographic people out there that are under consuming protein
and I'm all for people getting, you know, an optimal intake of
protein in. But there's been this massive
shift to the point of people now becoming fearful of eating too
much fat, and like you said, if you've removed carbohydrates and
glucose and fat from your diet, you're pretty much just having
protein as a substrate for energy and that's not an
efficient way to derive energy. So it just becomes miserable
like your sense of satiety gets all jacked up.
Have some - hormonal issues that occur from that.
And it's funny because this is exactly what was unfolding for
me. When I was doing, you know,
bodybuilding before I started doing keto, now do the standard
really high protein bodybuilding approaches and yeah, I would get
really lean but everybody likes to point towards bodybuilders is
the people that have it all figured out with their health.
But the reality is those people that are doing really, really
high protein at the expensive, you know, hardly any carbs or
fat? Or just any swamp force of
energy. They don't feel good.
They don't They don't perform great, they're at their weakest
and then when that show is over, they started binging and purging
because they're just in this - now word spiral.
That's certainly what happened to me and that happens, you
know, far too often in the sport but people have to have a source
of energy coming in. I feel like a lot of people are
under the assumption that hey, if I've got a lot of fat on my
body there's not really any need to consume dietary fat.
But what happens is your body can tap into that but if you're
not taking any dietary fats not going to efficiently tap into
that. So you're going to feel A
miserable, the whole night becomes unsustainable in the
first place and you're more likely to binge and deviate from
it, you know, pretty soon out the gates and then nobody wins.
Yeah, I think so. And I, you know, I think all of
these swings the things that happen in the diet sphere is.
I mean, it's unfortunate, you know, and that's what's so
confusing for people. I think that for me, I had a lot
of troubles like kind of getting the carnivore diet, dialed in
and getting it to work, quite right for me until I decided,
you know, I'm just tired of all these swings, you know, all one.
One video says this and then a million other people make videos
about it and how important it is to have this one nutrient or
this one thing. And, you know, you just get you
get into this like space, where you're trying to do everything
that, that you're being told and you're not listening to your own
body. And so I finally decided, you
know, that's it. I'm just going to, I'm going to
get now and I'm not going to listen anybody anymore.
I'm just going to eat food. And if it feels good, do more of
That if it doesn't feel good move away from that.
And and that was really how it all clicked and worked together
for me. And so that I do encourage
people to that to do that, because I do get people coming
to me. Like, well, what are your
Macros? Well, how much protein should I
have in a day and, you know what, you know, what should I
eat in total? How much should I eat?
And it's like, you know, nobody can give you those answers.
They tell you, they can, but no, they nobody can your own body.
The only one that can give you this answer and I think that our
bodies speak to us all the time and or try to anyway.
But when you eat a lot of sugar and processed foods and it
creates so much noise that you really can't hear what your
body's trying to say. But once you remove those
things, your body is very clear. You know, eat more of this,
don't eat more of this. I like this, I don't like this
and, you know, nobody speak to us in terms of our likes, our
desires, our interests, and so on.
And and so You know, people come to me and they're like, oh, I
just, I can't stand liver but can I, you know, grind it up and
like put it in the cap Florence while the way and it's like, if
you can't stand it, you can't stand it.
Like, you don't need it, you don't want it, you don't need
it. You know?
Try it every now and then and see if you like it, but if you
don't like it, that's your body sign that for whatever reason
doesn't want. It doesn't need, it doesn't
whatever. So, you know, I really try to to
push that. That home is to listen to your
body. Don't worry so much about the
details and you know and no matter how you do, you know a
carnivore diet. You're you're still better off
than when you're eating the standard American diet.
So just you know, relax doesn't have to be all grass-fed,
doesn't have to be all perfect. You know, just relax and enjoy
it. Yeah, completely agree.
I think some people get caught up in the weeds you know trying
to major in the minors and listen to every single my new
detail. That that gets thrown out there
on YouTube by some Guru and people have totally lost sight
of how they can just simply tap into their own self-awareness
and figure out what their body responds, well to and does not
respond well to. And that right there is, I
think, the in go, like, people should strive to reach a point
at which they can know why they feel the way they do based off
of their environmental factors their actions, their intakes,
their inputs or outputs and then make an informed decision based
solely off of their own internal sphere.
And then leaning Too heavily on some YouTube video or anything
like that. And that's not to say that these
YouTube videos on a place. I feel like, you know, I put up
videos you put out content like we're on trying to put out
content to inform, you know, the the, the masses in a good
positive way. But not at the expense of people
forgetting how to Simply, you know, dive internally and figure
out what their body's telling them because I feel like that is
truly the most desirable goal and outcome you mentioned yeah
liver. Well go ahead.
I was definitely want to come back to the liver, but I was
going to say, you know, I think there is a lot of con
conflicting information out there and what I also try to
tell people is that you have to consider the source not that you
know, other people are not giving good information.
But, you know, we all have different bodies.
We have different goals, we have different backgrounds and
histories so I you know, I definitely have people coming to
me saying, you know, like a bodybuilder type or you know,
the super fit athlete said To do this.
So I'm doing this and I'm like but you know your 40-plus and
have been obese for most of your life and you know don't do that
level of exercise like what they're recommending is
appropriate for you know like a performance athlete.
But that doesn't that doesn't match your goals or your life.
So why are you trying to do it that way?
And and so I do really think it's important to like, you
know, consider like What you where you are and what your
goals are and then try to find the approach that matches that
rather than just taking everything in that you here.
Because you know, it's not all going to work and I do think
that there are people who really need to eat, you know, very high
protein. But not everybody does.
Yeah. I feel like it makes sense for
people to just simply look at those putting in information
that have walked a similar path to what they're walking and have
reached a similar outcome to what they're striving for.
And that should A lot of information out there to a
select few people that hopefully doesn't inundate the consumer to
too much because I mean, like you said, we're all coming from
different backgrounds, all different walks of life, finding
who you resonate most with based off of, who you've got most in
common with. I feel like that, that is key
for sure. But yeah, as far as the, the
liver goes there, there seems to be this massive debate within
the carnivore animal-based space.
Like, you've got one end of the spectrum.
It says, Hey, look, it's, it's Totally, you know, none.
Not necessary whatsoever, just simply eat, you know, ribeye
every single day, red meat muscle tissue, no need for the
organs, and you've got this other group that says, if you're
going to eat an animal-based diet, it behooves you to consume
a, you know, significance supply of these organ based, you know,
meets because that's where all those micronutrients are.
Do you have a particular stance one way or the other?
I I don't I mean I tell people you don't have to eat anything
you don't want to eat Yeah so if you like liver then you know you
should have it but if you don't like it don't have it and I
think that it's important to just follow your taste overall
and that will you know that will really serve you best.
Like for example you know over my lifetime eggs have been have
I've gone through long periods where I have not eaten eggs
because they make me very nauseous.
And when I went, he do that was the first time in a long time
that I had. Been able to eat eggs without
you know, my stomach doing flippity flop.
I choose not to have them that often, you know, I buy a carton
of eggs and then I don't buy another carton for another
couple weeks. I eat no more than two a day
and, you know, just kind of leave it at that.
But, you know, that's not to say that, you know, eggs are a bad
food just for me specifically, it's not quite working, but I
only learned that and accepted that because I listen to my body
and I think the same goes for liver, you know, if you find it
disgusting and repulsive, It is not for you and remember that,
you know, a cow has like over 70 organs.
There are so many organs to eat, you know, don't start with the
ones that you don't like and honestly I think bone marrow is
like one of the easiest places to start, you know, bone marrow.
It like I love to to make roasted bone marrow, it's
absolutely delicious. And it is incredibly nutritious,
it taste more or less like DC butter and you know and it's
super easy. So I tell people, you know,
start their forget about liver and kidney and, you know, hard
and things that are, you know, much more have a stronger flavor
and and don't forget the fat itself is an organ.
So we're eating organs all the time, you know?
So we don't necessarily have to make any further concerted
effort to eat them. We, we already are.
And and, you know, and if you, I mean, I guess if you feel like
you really We want to be eating more of these.
Sometimes people will eat like sardines or you know, other
small fish. We're eating the whole animal
including their organs. So, there's a lot of ways to
think about this, you know, you don't have to get stuck on
liver. Yeah, I think that makes a lot
of sense of, like, you gotta find something that's
sustainable for you, and if you're one, that is not a fan of
liver at all. Like, I am not a fan of kidney.
I don't mind a liver, but I am not a fan of kidney whatsoever,
so I try to avoid that wind. Possible.
I do like the like liverwurst for instance, like something
like that, that kind of compiles, it all together and
has a much more mild flavor and I feel like that's a pretty good
Gateway so to speak as well. Yeah, I mean, for me, the only
way liver really works for me was as a pate and so I found
when I I made it so that I had one pound of liver to one pound
of fat, whatever type of fat I was going to use that was enough
fat to Make it a much milder taste.
So I don't know you know how other people make their Pate but
the more fat you put in and solved like it it Mellows out
and makes much more palatable. Makes it much more palatable and
that's also the only place where like I have to use onion powder
like I just, you know it just requires it order for me to eat
it. But otherwise, I don't use, you
know, like herbs and spices and I wouldn't be hard time giving
it more herbs and spices that duel.
I mean I saw it goes a long ways, I can get back, pretty
much just salt on most everything but I do like my
spices on occasion. What about Boomer?
So you mentioned that the, what's your go-to preparation
for bone marrow? I've got some some pretty hefty
beef bones in my freezer. Right now.
I'm trying to figure out how how to prepare.
So, what's your go-to technique for preparing the bone marrow?
Oh, you can just turn on the oven to 450.
Put salt on top and then just put them in the oven for 10-15
minutes. That's it for 50.
Like from from thought the right nut from Frozen.
I'm definitely done it from Frozen to, you may have to leave
it in there for longer from Frozen.
But you know, people eat it raw to.
I mean I haven't that's not something I really do very much
of but the people definitely bone marrow raw.
Yeah, the wrong thing is interesting because that you get
again, there's there's different camps on that.
You get some people that suggest that, you know, the best way to
retain all nutrient density and have it in the most bioavailable
form is to consume it wrong. You've got other people that
say, well, you Probably actually cooked a little bit for your
body to truly tap into it. Do you have a stance on that?
I, you know, I definitely did my time giving raw try and I, you
know, I think Rob beef is very mild and tasty, I think it's
good. But, you know, you do have risks
of disease and you know, an infection eating, you know,
eating raw meat. I mean, there's a reason why
humans began cooking, but I find it hard to believe.
That cooking is a problem for us.
Given the fact that, you know, we've harnessed fire and have Me
eating cooked meat for a very long time so you know if it were
a more recent development maybe but you know, I don't think so
so I don't really see it as being a problem.
I think if you want to eat raw meat and you found a way to
prepare it safely then you know there's no reason not to beef
is, you know I told people beef until you cut into it is sterile
inside so you really just have to deal with the exterior and
You know, I wouldn't do this with fish or chicken but with
beef, you know, it's pretty safe, and I've certainly eaten
raw. Egg yolks.
That can be pretty tasty too, but I also got sick and got
right at the. Beginning of the pandemic.
I was experimenting with raw and I got Kimball bile actor.
I think is how you say it, you know, which is, I mean, it
wasn't deadly, it's not a problem but I'm obliged.
You know, I was pretty sick for It.
But at the time, you know, it just that that seems to be a bad
time to get sick with anything you know.
And it would I just was like, yeah, it's I should not be
experimenting with anything that's risky at this time.
I'd stay out. The doctors, yeah, I feel like I
would definitely like I've had wrong B5, had roll venison
ruminants. I feel like a much safer like
you'll not. I'm definitely Drawing the Line.
I'm not going to be having raw pork or chicken or fish or
anything like that, that It's more liable to carry some form
of disease or something. That's going to risk.
Getting in food infection is just not worth it in my opinion.
Plus I kind of like the taste of something that's been seared or
chargrilled more so than that of just Raw.
For sure, for me as well. And I, you know, definitely went
through a phase of having things very rare.
But at this point, I like to chew, I like, I like it when the
meets a little tougher. So I tend to cook to medium
well, at this point. Yeah.
So I, you know, I prefer that. But, you know, I think that
there's no reason why we have to do all of one or all of another.
I mean, I had so many more meals left in my lifetime.
There's room for, you know, quite a few raw ones and I don't
know, I always encourage people to just be more relaxed about
it. You can have raw and, you know,
you cannot have cooked, you have both make sense, make sense
talking about your brand, like your the, your profile, your
brand, had a black corner will kind of be.
Well, when I first started eating this way you know,
carnivore is of course, very odd and At the time it was you know
a quiet little corner of the internet and there weren't a lot
of people in the face and they're definitely weren't any
people that look like me and the space and talking about this way
eating and I was eager to know if there were other black people
who were eating this way. So I started, I started my
channel. I started my Instagram account.
I think, first, they called black carnivore.
And I figured if If anybody else was out there doing it and
wondering, if there were any other black people, eating a
carnivore diet, they would Google black carnivore and they
would find me and that was indeed what happened.
So you know it was a, you know, a perfect strategy at that time
and I you know, really was able to draw quite a lot of people
you know, to me and you know, and I wanted to do that because
the you know, I think that this is such Healing way to eat and
you know for people who struck I mean I know a lot of people
struggle with diabetes and you know, high blood pressure and
heart disease. And these very, I mean,
basically metabolic diseases but, you know, it hits a black
community, particularly hard. And at this time, there is this
incredible push for people to go vegan or raw vegan as a way to
reverse disease. But I think You know, I don't
really think that working for most people and many people have
a hard time, you know, sticking with that.
But most people do really like me and can find a way to make
this work for them. So I wanted to make sure that
this, you know, this method of healing was available to anybody
who was interested and and I wanted to make sure that black
people especially felt welcomed into the space and welcomed you
know, too. This a try.
And so that was you know that was really kind of why I got
started and and I think that you know I provide like useful, get
information. So my audience is diverse and
you know and full of people who are just you know trying to
figure out how to feel better and enjoy what they're eating
and I think it's I think it's awesome.
I feel like the more people of all different sense that To get
this information or able to try it, see how they respond to it
is key. What, why do you think there is
such a disparity between different, you know, segments in
people, within the, the key to a carnivore space, like, when I go
to these conferences, there are definitely at, you know, a few
black people all these conferences, but it's
predominantly. Oh, Wyatt like, do you have any
idea or theories as to? Why?
That is the case. You know, I don't know.
I mean, I think it's a variety of things I've won.
You have to give presentations or have speakers that are
appealing to a broader audience and that are speaking to a
broader audience and I don't always see that happening at
some of these talks. I think that now there are some
of them are really trying and trying to be more diverse.
So That's really exciting to see.
But, you know, that's something that's important to do.
And I think that you have to Center, you know, you have to
represent those voices. And that that's not, that's
something that's not happening. So, on my YouTube channel, what
I committed to doing was in finding other black people who
are doing the carnivore diet, and having success with it and
letting them tell their story and I think, you know, studies
are helpful. But I don't think that they are
convincing to a broader spectrum of, you know, the human
population. I think humans respond to
stories and to just hearing like regular people tell their story
so that was what I really tried to to do and and I you know I
feel like to date there's not, you know, wide Rarity of video
content of, you know, diverse population telling their story
on on you know, this way of eating.
So I do encourage. I hope that other influencers
will pick up, you know, the charge and start reaching out to
different types of people and you know, and let them tell
their stories because I mean it's not like the diet's going
to work. It more optimally for for white
folks in black folks, you know, like it doesn't really
discriminate on colors can, you know, anybody would benefit from
removing all the processed foods, carbohydrates and sugars.
So it would be certainly welcoming to see more people of
all different, nationalities jumping on board and having a
voice in the space. Yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Well you mentioned before some recording, you've got a
challenge coming up next month to dive into that a little bit.
Yeah. So on September 6, I'm doing a
five day challenge. I, it's going to be the beef
butter bacon and egg challenge. Although, for me it's probably
just going to be beef water and salt, because I'm kind of over
bacon and eggs right now. I would like it to be very
strict because I really want people to see how great they
can. And it's surprising with
carnivore. How quickly you actually start
to see some benefits. So obviously you're not going to
resolve, you know, years of obesity and high blood pressure
and heart disease and five days. But you will start to see a,
you'll will start to feel better.
You will start to, you know, lose some weight, you will start
to see your numbers drop a little.
And I think that's important to have that have that small win
and let people kind of get their feet wet.
And also this way eating is, you know, it is different.
So I kind of feel like having a very, you know short directed
time to try it. You know, is really helpful and
I just want to make sure people are trying it, right?
And you know, not, you know, not starting it, you know, telling
me and hot dogs. Yeah, those are not necessarily
terrible foods, but you do not want to make that the basis of
your kind of where you're not going to feel good.
So, you know, that really is the idea behind it, and then I'm
going to do some educating about how to do a carnivore diet, how
to incorporate fasting. But then I want to spend a big
chunk of time on, you know, sort of mindset issues because, you
know, that's for people who have lots of weight to lose, you
know, who are looking at 50-plus pounds that's going to take
time. And so, you have to be be
consistent in the long term. That's not something you can
just do in a few weeks or, you know, a month or two.
So, re is so, I think a lot of people have to relearn like
their relationship to food their relationships to their families
and food and they have to navigate, you know what food
means and you know, their work relationships or friendships
their families and so on. So there's there's a lot of
change that happens. and, you know, and that that's really
what's got to be dealt with, has your family been pretty
supportive of you being so strict nutrition or they still
kind of heckling you if you don't reach for Grandma's pecan,
pecan pie at Thanksgiving Oh, they think I'm crazy but you
know, they they just they let it go at this point because I'm
clearly not changing. And so, you know, they let it go
my my father is actually a long time vegetarian like since
college and he's believes, it is the healthiest way to eat.
And another one of, you know, his brother, my uncle basically
eats brown rice, oatmeal and black beans and that's kind of
like the bulk of it. So, I don't know, you know,
they're still here, you know, and they're in their 70s and
80s, but I, you know, I don't think it's the best way for me.
Yeah. Are they, are they pretty
resilient like, are they got good bone structure?
Good muscular Muscular development still, are they kind
of on the decline in that regard?
Um, You know, I don't know II. Think that they, I mean, my
father, still likes to push himself.
He's always been pretty active and, and he still like jogs and
his treadmill and and all of that.
But, on the other hand, I feel like, you know, his allergies
are just off the chain terrible and, and, you know, so much so
that I've actually I thought about sending him my albuterol
because like, it's really bad. So I don't know, but you know he
goes through buckets of Honey a month and you know, and his
smoothies and Shakes and carrots and all that.
And my other uncle is has always been very smart and you know, an
inquisitive which I think you know I mean there are other
things that keep you healthy and strong in the long run.
So I think that is kept in very sharp and and engaged with life
but I don't know. I mean I Probably if you eat
more meat, he might be more robust physically but is still
very sharp and he loves woodworking.
So he's always got some, you know, project going or he's
making things. And now there's talk of, you
know, van life and him out thing some kind of ant.
No that's Pro will say. I gotta I'm gonna ban that I'm
eventually going to convert as well.
Some of the he should start a YouTube channel or follow along.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah. I think I think we're in an
interesting time right now because so Many people are doing
these very quote, unquote extreme diets, where that's
where there's raw vegan or strict carnivore or, you know,
consistently keto, and with the rise of the internet, they're
documenting this. So it'll be interesting to see
how things play out, you know, 50 years down the road when
people can actually look back. And say, hey, look, this person
has been doing X, Y, or Z for the past 50, 60, 70 years.
And this is what they have to show for it.
So I feel like a lot of this will come to light, you know, in
the future for sure. I hope so.
I mean, I really do but I don't know.
I mean, I think that, you know, when I listen to what people
have to say about what is healthy, you know, eating a
vegetarian or vegan diet like the narrative is constantly
shifting to, you know, to You know, to keep supporting a
vegetarian diet. Even when that narrative becomes
like strange and crazy, you know, I now have you no hear
people say that we, we came from primates who didn't consume me,
then we weren't meant to consummate.
We're really freak eating animals, and I'm just like, you
know, now we're moving away from the science that I'm familiar
with, in my former life, I was getting a PhD in anthropology,
so I was always interested in human evolution and I studied
that a lot. And, you know, so what I least
what I learned in school was you know, that we me like this is
how we evolve. We would not be the animals that
we are today if we were still pretty eating so, you know, I
don't know. I feel like it even though
there's all this documentation who knows what story gets spun
to explain, what's happened? Yeah, they're so definitely a
lot of controversy I don't feel like any of the mainstream.
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but nobody, that's high on the
totem pole within the world of anthropology archaeology, that
they're not suggesting that we primarily evolved.
Eating mostly fruit, right? Like the general consensus is
still primarily meat based. Right.
Well, I know I'm talking about the general public you know
people of the general public saying that, no, I don't believe
there are major, you know, players in the anthropology
World. Saying that although I think
that you're beginning to see like you know newer you know
students perhaps saying something like that.
But but you know it's the general public that drives the
direction of Of you know, purchases products being created
narrative being told in the media and so on.
So that's where you know, it's most concerning.
Yeah. And I feel like it's just
concerning that there's this massive divide around the
information that spreading as well.
Like, I go out of my way to bring vegans on my podcast, not
because I agree with most of what they say because I don't,
but I feel like it's healthy to have, you know, some form of
respectful discourse between With opposing ideas.
I feel like this, you know, that dogmatic way of thinking towards
nutrition or politics or anything for that matter.
That just divide people into these separate camps and Echo
Chambers is certainly not moving the needle forward and any, you
know, positive way. So like, I love bringing on
people that have a very different approach to me with
regarding nutrition. Just so I can see where they're
coming from and, you know, maybe I can shed some light on some of
their thoughts, maybe they can shed some light on some of mine,
but I feel like if we're not able to Communicate in some
respectful Manner and then we're really doomed.
You're absolutely right. I haven't done as much of that
reaching out or Reaching Across the aisle.
So to speak, I definitely don't like confrontation and I'm not
looking to get into fights with vegan.
So I definitely avoid that aspect of it.
But I think having, you know, these real conversations where
you're actually, you know, you're trying to have a meeting
of the minds and really trying to understand the other person's
perspective. Active is really important, so I
applaud you for doing that. And you know something, I guess
I should eventually try to start doing more of because it's
important and I and that's really the narrative that has to
be Decentered, I guess is the right word.
Yeah, well, think of the end day we all have much more common
ground than not. Like I've never had a vegan on
the podcast that we just wound up resulting in like a yelling
match. I mean, I mean, they all want to
preserve the health and well-being of their body and do
so in a way that is, you know, respectful to the animals and
whatnot. I mean, I don't know any
carnivores in the space that are championing for like these Of
Slaughter and feedlot farming. Like nobody wants that, you
know, how we go about, reaching a viable solution may differ.
But I feel like the end of the day we're all striving to more
or less reach the same goal. So if you kind of start from
that common place of interest, it's much easier to have this
healthy discourse and I feel like that's what the world needs
right now. Yeah, absolutely wait.
A where do people go to find out?
More about you follow along, learn about this challenge.
You got coming up next month, where people go to find out
about you, well, to find out about the challenge, you can go
to Black carnivore.com, forward slash Challenge.
And you can always follow me on Instagram, I'm black carnivore.
And I'm also on YouTube and my channel is called black
carnivore. And I'm also on Tick-Tock, um,
but I don't post there as often as I should, but that's going to
change. And I'm also black carnivore.
Their take tons of strange when I haven't really pulled the
trigger on that. I've got a profile.
I think I've got like three posts on it, but tick, tock,
tick tocks funny. I haven't haven't really sink my
teeth into that one. It's kind of weird like their
privacy. Have you like really dove into
their privacy rules? Like if you read all the fine
print, I have not but I have not heard good things about stuff.
Like that. So yeah, yeah.
I think 10 is just getting all over information.
Well I definitely did not share my contacts with Tick-Tock and
it's always asking me though. Do you want to you know, sync
your contacts and they say no no no, that's so hopefully that is
a little bit of a barrier there. Yeah, so yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. Maybe too late.
Maybe, bro. Who knows?
Well, awesome, a day. I can't thank you enough for
taking the time to jump on here and chat with me.
I love what you're doing. Love the message.
You're putting out there and you've seen a ton of success,
you know, personally with your own journey and you're making
your, Paving the way for many others to follow suit and reach
their own. You know, higher level of
health. So, keep doing what you're
doing. If there's ever anything at all
that I can do to help in any way.
Definitely, definitely, don't hesitate to reach out and let me
know. Okay.
Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me.
You bet take care. Alright you too.
Bye bye.