Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes.
Ketose amazon.com coming back at you.
Another podcast this time. I've got special guest.
Dr. Bill Schindler on the line thoroughly thoroughly.
Enjoy this conversation. This is the second time I've had
him on the show and every time we talk, I mean, it's like
Kindred Spirits. Here.
We talk about our passion for Native American history and
honestly just our upbringing as a species, what we ate to evolve
to what we are. Now how we procured that food,
the tools that we use to process that food and just just What we
eat and how to eat like humans, which is the name of his book.
His new book eat like a human. So we Dove super deep into that
and we talked about we talked about a lot of things but I
thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.
If you have any interest whatsoever in kind of our our
evolutionary past or history as a species from a developmental
standpoint from a food and nutrition standpoint, you will
find Value in this conversation and I've got no doubt that you
will enjoy every single minute of it.
So without further Ado, sit back, relax and enjoy the
podcast with dr. Bill.
Schindler. We are lab.
Dr. Bill Schindler. How are you, sir?
Good, how are you? I'm doing wonderful woman.
I'm excited to get you back home.
We talked like I said, I don't remember what month or year.
It's been. It's been quite a while ago now.
But we talked about Evolution how we have evolved to eat what
we do the tools that we use to do such.
But you've recently had a new Book come out.
Eat like humans is what's called, right?
Yep, like a human nourishing foods and ancient ways of
cooking to revolutionize your health.
I am super excited about it. Yeah, man, I'm super excited for
you. So this is a topic that I've
always been super interested in before keto and nutrition or any
of that stuff. My first Passion was Native
American history, and just how we had, you know, eating and
lived prior to on the technological advancements that
we are, you know, comfy all the Creature Comforts, that we have
nowadays with, I guess. So before we dive into the book,
man, give me some backstory for people that have not heard the
first conversation that we hand. What got you into this, you
know, this, this area of study to begin with.
Well, you know, we, I think we share a lot in common.
My, I was so passionate, especially early in life with
Native Americans and ancient ways of living my father, had me
out hunting and fishing and trapping all the time, which was
a huge deal. Because I grew up in a suburb in
New Jersey suburbs in New York City, and it was quite an effort
to To get me to a place where we could actually do these things.
I was forging and we were looking for arrowheads and
Fields and and all of that. And, you know, this entire time
growing up. I had this great connection, my
parents, great connection to the outdoors, Career Connection to
my past. But man, I was battling.
I was battling weight. I was battling metabolic
disease. I was, I was, I was really
unhealthy relationship with food, and it was so strange
because so much in my life. It was centered on places that I
could find the answers. The problems that I was facing.
I just didn't know to look there because I just going to Tricia
nest and listening to diet books and all those sorts of things.
My doctors, and it wasn't until I started to get.
Do my graduate work for, my PhD, in archaeology that.
I realized that all of these, all these interests and hobbies
have had my entire life were held the keys to understanding,
how to battle my issues with Weight and Body Image and
health. And when I started putting those
two things, Things together and special diets, and diet, and
health. And those sorts of things that I
really started to not only Revolution my own revolutionize,
my own health, but feed my family in the most nourishing
way possible. And it's been a several decades
Journey for me. It started with archaeology and
more recently over the past 15 years.
My family and I have traveled all over the world and live and
work with indigenous and traditional groups and how they
cooked and how they process and repaired their foods.
And I my wife and I realized We have learned so much and how to
feed our own family that we wanted to share with the world
and that's resulted in this book.
I love him and I feel like, you know, I'm guilty of this
probably all are guilty of it at some point in time, but we get
so caught up in all the the advancements that we make as a
species and we often times do so at our own demise because we
just assume that things that were done prior aren't as good.
But I've had this Reawakening, so to speak, since I've kind of,
you know, went on the ketogenic rabbit home.
About just kind of returning to more of what's worked.
So well in the past because in certain areas like our societal
Health, as a case in point, things just have not gotten
better. So kind of winding the clock
back the other way and going back to more of our primitive
Roots. I think that is absolutely
Paramount in so many different ways 100%.
And you know, what's really interesting?
Is it all depends on how you frame the discussion and it
bring the argument and what you define as advancement, right?
So I use I used to teach a watching the college.
I was a professor there for almost 15 years and mostly
archaeology anthropology and food related courses and I would
start almost every class and I'd had the students.
I'd say, listen guys. Tell me what you think are, you
know, these wonderful advancements of modern day life.
And I feel the board up with all these Advanced which I know and
they would always say the same thing like modern Healthcare
System and doctors and you know, convenient foods and Do those
sorts of things? And then we would really kick
them apart and we change reframe the discussion, senior.
What we compare this to the Past, you know, what is what's
really valuable here. What is advancement, really,
really mean? And when we look at, you know,
what our health, we look at and our ancestors skeletons and not
and even if you go back, even twenty thousand years or five
thousand years and you look at a lot of these skeletons and you
look at the amazing Health that most of them in.
Wade, we you start to reframe that discussion about the need
for a modern medicine at the beaver doctors that need for
these sorts of things and, and same sort of things.
We thought the Army's everybody would say, we need one of the
greatest advancements of Modern Life.
My students are overseas and have these amazing armies.
Well, when you look at hunter-gatherer societies and
these egalitarian societies, yeah, certainly people.
There was, there was violence. People got killed.
There's no doubt, but there was no evidence of organized
Warfare. There wasn't a need for an army.
So when you reframe the discussion really put it, use
the context of our strong firm understanding of our past.
It really changes all these things.
When we think about advancement in the form of something like
food processing, which is where my research is focused.
And if you say food processing, most of us, think it's a very
bad thing. And it is when we look at the
Modern food system, because most of the modern food system, today
is processing, the food for the sole purpose of making Some
company or some small group of people incredibly Rich at the
expense of our health, but food processing in the past for
literally 3.4 million years was almost always focused on
increasing the safety, nutrient density and bioavailability of
foods. And in fact, it was solely a
result of food processing. We were able to fuel our growing
bodies and brains and make our create our species Homo sapiens.
So again, that word advancement is a loaded word.
And in order to have a discussion about it and
understand what it really means, you have to contextualize it.
And I think the right way to do that, is through a firm
understanding of our past. Yeah.
I totally agree. I mean there's without a doubt
certain advancements. Like, if I break my leg, you
know, I want to go to a modern, you know, healthcare provider as
opposed to, what would have been the the route, you know, 250
value, but with things like as as chronic as just underlying
health issues that people are plagued with these days,
diabetes, things of that nature like Most of that was just not
an issue way back in the day and you know, people look at you
know, it goes Way Beyond food to like I had a podcast last week
about light exposure and how people are just totally wrecking
their natural circadian rhythms because of all the screens are
constantly gazing into. So like just simply going back
to more of a holistic circadian. Rhythm, you know, you wake up in
the sun comes up, you go to sleep or sun goes down, like a
simple. As that may sound.
That is like there's so much health to be found in that and
like when you bring in all these new variables, like the The cell
phones and the you know constant Netflix binge has that people
are on nowadays. It's not doing anything for your
health in the positive way. No, and especially one because a
lot of what you just mentioned is not a one-off thing.
It's an every single day habit that builds up over time just
like with our food system, these small changes in our food
system. While one of them might not be a
huge deal, getting a little bit of sleep or screwing up our
circadian rhythm, or, you know, one time a week or something
like that might not be a big deal, but Doing it day after
day. After day, week after week,
month after month year after year old these things build up
and create the situation that were in today and I knew there
was a huge push back about 10 years ago in the anthropological
Community against this romanticizing of the past.
And I do want to make sure that It's acknowledge that I'm not
necessarily doing that or really none of us are it was this idea?
There was a book called Shoot forget the name of the book, but
it was a book. That was very, very popular
about 10 years ago that was focused on trying to make sure
that people understood that the past wasn't all rainbows and
unicorns, and I think we can certainly celebrate the
wonderful things of the past. While at the same time,
understanding that it was All rainbows and unicorns, for
example, a lot of babies died in the past because of a lot of
different reasons we can certainly go into but you know,
people worked incredibly hard to get their food and they were in
the face of extreme elements sometimes in the and those sorts
of things and that's fine. That's all wonderful.
But at the same time we have to realize that for the majority of
three and a Half million years, what are and the Very fact that
you and I are sitting here having this conversation and
that were doing. So in relatively large bodies
with massive brains compared to other mammals means that what
they were doing in the past. As a whole, not Overlook all the
diversity of different times in different places in the world,
but as a whole our ancestors were doing so well with how they
were living and dealing with the elements dealing with the
outside world and most. My mind dealing with the natural
resources and doing things those resources to make them as safe
and hurting as possible for their bodies that they literally
built us as a species, both biologically and culturally
through their advancements and we can't Overlook that.
So I still think that the best way for us to try to sort of get
her hit that refresh button and try to understand the best way
to deal. With our really stone-age
bodies. I mean, are we are peered
300,000 years ago as modern-day Homo sapiens, but the same light
needs rest needs. Nutritional needs as we have
today. The best way to even begin to
understand, it is to have that comprehensive understanding of
our best. Yeah.
I'm 100% agree and it's interesting because you know,
I'm 30 years old when I look back at you know, how I was
brought up like the textbooks that I was familiar with, you
know going through school grade school even like It shows, you
know, the advancements that we've made over the Millennia
and what an early humans life look like, you know, and there's
oftentimes pictures of came in eaten, a freaking saber-toothed
tiger leg or something, you know, woolly, mammoths and
everything. And like that's just what's in
my generation, kind of saw in the textbooks, going through
school, but it's interesting like you dive into the past now
and you start, you know, especially like from a
nutritional space. And, you know me being an
advocate for the ketogenic diet, there being a whole lot of
momentum, gained in the carnivore.
Communities, like going back and trying to pull that.
This is how we had evolved to eat, you know, card and there's
just a ton of pushback that you get on that.
And I don't know if it's mostly from just a bunch of propaganda
out there. But is there like a general
consensus from the people that are in the know with regard to
how we have evolved each as a species?
Is that like a pretty well agreed upon a theory or is there
just A lot of division in that space.
Now there's there, I would say there's a lot of division in
that space and the reason is because so much of our
interpretation of the past is impacted and influenced by
things that are happening and our modern day life.
For example, if you a lot a lot of archaeology was done and
those archaeological sites were interpreted in the in the mid we
In the mid 19th century or sorry 20th century right after World
War 2 and there was a big push during World War two people.
Excelling Norton talked about this, a lot as well.
But there was a big push for these Liberty Gardens and
growing, you know, we we can't do what we got to do to help our
troops. Will don't eat meat on these
days so we can save it for the troops and girl these vegetables
in your backyard. And there was this big push in
this, this sort of universal understanding.
In that it was something inherently valuable in plant
foods. And as a result of that, you
know, here we are, having are a lot of archaeologists living in
this at that time period, with this mindset, interpreting
archaeological sites and no matter what Archaeology, and the
way we go about doing Archaeology is very
mathematical, very scientific. But as soon as you take an
artifact out of the ground, everything that happens from
that point forward is And no matter how unbiased
archaeologists try to be. There's always a biased in that.
So there was a lot of interpretation of prehistoric
life. That was a very, you know, that
plants were incredibly important and they work, they don't get me
wrong. They were important, but they
downplay die in my mind, as a result of all these other
political and social things happening.
At the time. They downplayed the importance
of the role of animals and our prehistoric diets.
And this one on for Decades, and it wasn't until really the past
20, or maybe 30 years, that a lot of those interpretations of
the same exact sites began to change.
And here we are. Now, I mean, Maya archaeology
advisor for my graduate degree is a die-hard Regan.
And here we, he's literally one of the best archaeologists in
eastern North America and he's retired now, but he's
interpreted. Tons of sites.
And there's no doubt that his Take On The World, his place and
that the role of humans and plants and animals and died, and
all that has played a role in how he's interpreted these
prehistoric sites. And I will say this, people,
like me and Mickey bender and other archaeologists and
anthropologists, who wholeheartedly believe that
animal Foods, especially awful and fat played an essential role
in us becoming human. And there's even though I tried
to be as unbiased as possible. I'm sure that that perspective
plays a large role in how I interpret sites.
So that what, I guess what I'm trying to say is we could have
several different archaeologists with several different
perspectives interpreting the same exact site and coming up
with, with different ideas about what happened there in the past.
And the further, back you go. More difficult.
It is to make a, you know, a truly accurate interpretation.
And at the same time the other thing we have to remember is the
kind of time periods that I'm talking about are spending
millions of years. So not only is there a lot of
diversity throughout time, but also throughout Place, some of
these things are happening in different parts of Africa, some
are happening later in parts of Europe and, you know, you have a
ton of diversity and resources, and cultures, and these sorts of
things that we can't Overlook that as well, but the short
answer your Yes, there is a divide this quite a lot of the
vision and even in the archaeological and
anthropological committee on these diets.
Well, I've had I've had Mickey bender on as well and he had a
really interesting, you know, hypothesis and that, you know,
people early species that are trying to survive the elements
that are going to prioritize the most calorically dense food
because that's going to be the greatest, you know, cost-benefit
analysis. Basically, like you have a
greater currency calories, being currency in that.
And, and that makes sense to me that you have to take into
account that there may be a little more danger and going
after a, woolly mammoth and there is and, you know, scraping
up some some root fibers, but I feel like, you know, where the
end of day like, if you're trying to survive and you've got
two people that, you know, a group of people that could
potentially bring down something with so much more of a caloric
currency. Like, it would make a lot more
sense to put your your eggs in that basket. 100% and I love his
work and I wholeheartedly agree with what he said.
And I would also say in addition to using calories as currency in
a conversation and argument like that on top of that, we're
talking about. If you take the hard part, if
you look at the Technologies, which is where my focus is over
the past three and a half million years that our ancestors
created to help them gain access to nutrition in different
resources. Right?
A lot of effort was put into hunting technology overcoming
our Physical limitations and being able to hunt from a
distance and throw Spears or atlatls or boomerangs or
throwing sticks or bows and arrows or whatever.
It was. A lot of effort goes into the
actual caption Technologies related to the capture of that
animal. But as soon as you take that
animal down, the only thing you need is a sharp edge and you
have almost complete access. As you note.
Almost all the nutrients safely have complete access to almost
all the nutrients inside of that animal.
In fact, the same some cases with some of the organ Meats.
Cooking them gets rid of some of the nutritional value of it.
So you could literally rip that animal apart with a sharp edge
and devoured and get access to incredible nutrition on the
other hand. If you look at the technologies
that were developed over time, when you're talking about
plants, it's not as much about the getting of the plants,
right? It's about what you do when you
get that plant because every single plant has toxins in it
and you have to be Deal with, especially wild plants, you have
to deal with those toxins before you can safely consume that
food. And on top of that, even though
plants do have nutrition in them.
Most of that nutrition is locked up in a way that it's not easily
accessible to our bodies. So you either in many cases,
especially again, with wild plants.
You need to either cook them or dehydrate them, or ferment them,
or eat them with clay, or do a whole host of other things even
gain access to safely, gain access to the nutrients and
those plants. So, again, on top of the, you
know, It's easy and he's right. It's easy to stand back and say,
oh my gosh, taking down a woolly mammoth gives you a hell of a
lot more calories than been digging plants and you know all
the sorts of stuff and it's true but then there's that fine
minutiae of okay, once that animals taken down or once you
have this pile of roots or the style of whatever, the special
material is. What do you have to do to
overcome your, physical limitations as a human and are
incredibly inefficient. Digestive tracts, the accessed
safely and effectively the nutrients that Are in that in
that food, that's sitting in front of you.
And then, then his argument is even more even more valid.
Yeah, I agree. And I feel like, I mean, I've
heard arguments from from Amber O'Hearn that show, you know,
slides of the digestive tract of a human being versus that of an
orangutan. For instance and the fact that,
you know, everything is just so much more shorter.
I mean our digestive tract, some is more similar to a predatory
cat than it is, you know, a primate.
And I feel like that alone, you know, that that should have a
pretty good indicating Factor there and The people on the
opposing side. That's a just, just look at our
teeth. You know, look at our teeth are
teeth are not that of a predatory can't, but my argument
is that if you have tools, if you have sharp objects, and
there's no need to evolve the teeth to tap into that resource.
Anyways, I've absolutely we haven't need needed sharp
canines for three and a half million years.
Once we created when you can we can create a sharp edge in less
than a second that is sharper than any tooth on any animal on
the planet in less than a second.
So We don't that that Pete, the tooth argument makes absolutely
no sense. But you know, the obverse of the
other side of that. What you said about the
digestive tract is incredibly important.
Our digestive tract is 60%, the size that it should be for a
primate of a similar size as us right at 60%, that size.
So that that talks everything about length, small intestinal
length for the, you know, the amount of time that food can sit
in the small intestines. The nutrients can be absorbed
the size of the stomach, which Greatly impacts the amount of
food that we can eat in any given time.
All of these things are point to the need and for us as humans to
process our food properly before it even goes into our mouths and
we have to do this. We are only.
I'm convinced humans are only perfectly designed to consume
one food at a certain time in our life.
I mean, if you think about it, other other wild animals.
Other animals and specifically wild animals are designed by
logical design eating diets that they eat.
They eat a certain food that they have, the right equipment,
right inside of their bodies to deal with and everything works
out. Fine.
Humans are different because we've created these Technologies
to access all sorts of resources that we had.
Absolutely no business eating. We require, we started creating
processing food, outside of our bodies, our bodies jump in size
our brains jump inside. The same time that our digestive
tract was actually getting smaller.
We require these Technologies to process the food before it goes
and that's one of the major differences between humans and
other animals. So the only food, the only food
that we are biologically designed to consume as humans is
dairy from our mothers when we're infants and then when we
start weaning ourselves off, just like all other mammals do,
when when mammals infants are weaned off of breast milk or
mother's milk. Luke, they cease or slow down
the production of certain enzymes, like lactase and
Thomas, and these other sorts of things that allow us to safely
do it and then they get gonna go on the diets that they're
designed to consume. But humans are different, right?
Humans. We were eating prior to any
Technologies. We were eating a limited amount
of wild, fruits and vegetables and insects.
That's it. So, when we started introducing
technologies, that allowed us to butcher later, one that allowed
us to cook and Hunt and then ferment, and then to practice
things like mr. Motivation or geology, or eating
Earthly food at the same time. Then we started to get access,
you know, we started the out. Eat our digestive tract and
access. All these nutrients from
environment that we never had access to before, and our bodies
and brains responded. And now, here we are, as is
modern-day humans with these huge bodies in these huge brains
police. Incredibly intensive nutritional
requirements, but we're not biologically equipped to access.
Them, without the right sorts of technology, and it work forever.
But now, the technology, that's, that's, that's guiding.
Our modern food system is not working in our favor.
It's not working towards safety and nutrient, density and
nutrient bioavailability. It's actually processing food at
the expense of all of those things.
And I think that's where we really need to put our energy
and our Focus. Because most of us are worried
about what reading and what are we putting into our mouths?
Should we be drinking? Dairy?
Should we be eating bread? Should we be eating protein to
reduce? While all those things are
important for missing, is that larger picture?
That that how are we eating? How are we pregnant?
Because how we're processing, Dairy makes a very important
distinction between other. Not that final food is something
we should consume or something. We should never put into our
mouths. How are we processing grains?
How are we, how are we dealing with animals?
How are we doing with a just? But literally every food that's
in our food scape, the technology involved with how
that food is being processed. Is something we need to pay
attention to. And when you look at most of the
people, like you said in the beginning, people just assume
processing itself as a bad word. I mean, simply taking a knife to
a tenderloin is technically processing.
When you, when you start looking at how most food is processed
these days like, everything. I mean, everything is prioritize
from a profit standpoint. So oftentimes nutrients are
absolved and you're just getting remaining calories in bulk and
using like process seat. That are how the oxidative and
inflammatory as the the main, you know, source of calories.
So when you look at what we have evolved to eat from a processing
standpoint, you know, like is there like a, you know, a T20
now so to speak. Like if everybody kind of fell
into this category that would that would cure most issues or
is there so much individuality and that regard as well?
So what you devalue quality into what he mean in actual people,
or their food choices on understand what you mean?
Yeah, like into into the people independent of the food choices,
so to speak. Because I mean, a lot of people
like, it's interesting man. We start diving into nutritional
choices, you know, I've said in the podcast before, like every
other animal out, there has a specific diet that is, that is
fit for the animal. Like we all know what lions eat.
We all know what dogs eat, we all know what dolphins eat, but
you look at humans and that's the one species that nobody
knows. What the hell are supposed to
eat and it's like, it's comical. You know, I know what I like to
eat. But I mean, you can make a
pretty good argument that there's people thriving on all
corners of the world, eating vastly different diet.
So, I don't know how much of that is genetic.
How much of that is, you know, hereditary how much of that is,
you know, locational based environmental, but bringing it
to an argument from like a processing standpoint, and what
tools were used to produce that food.
I like that argument. That, that makes sense to me.
Yeah, I think I think a great way to what may have started to
to describe this. Now, as you know, we know that
humans are omnivores, but we know that it's in all the
textbooks in the Biology book. Humans are omnivores, but what
we fail to recognize is that we're not omnivores by Design,
we're omnivores bike technology. We are not designed to be
omnivores, but we figured out ways through technology.
And again, these are incredibly basic Technologies, many cases,
stone tools. Fire fermentation, those sorts
of things through those Technologies.
We have out eating right? Our digestive tracts and figured
out ways to subsist and in some cases thrive on a variety of
different resources that were not necessarily.
This is the hard part two graphs that were not necessarily
biologically designed to consume, but we biologically
need the nutrition from and again, I know that's strange,
but let me let me We back that up real quick.
Remember, we started three over millions and millions of years
ago, eating only with if we have no Technologies whatsoever.
And we're just think about us shrunk down to a full grown
adult about three and a half feet, tall brain the size of my
fist and throw you out into the African Wilderness and say live.
And once your weaned off your mother, you every food that you
get, you have to collect with your hands and process with your
teeth in your inefficient digestive tract.
So you are literally eating a limited amount of wild plants
and insects that that that's literally what you're eating.
And and that's why we were a small as we won't stay too
small. You were until we invented our
first stone tool, 3.0 3.3 million years ago and all of a
sudden. Now, we were Scavenging, the the
flesh left on dead animals on the savanna that were killed by
another animal. And then we grew a little bit
and then at about 2 million years when we develop hunting
technology, we had First access to the entirety of the animal
and that we weren't left with, just the flesh or we could eat
the blood, the fat and the organs, most nutrient dense, and
bioavailable parts these animals.
And then we created firing to cook our foods and we invented
fermentation, and a whole host of other technologies that
allowed us to slowly. Obtain more and more diverse
nutrients from our environment and process them.
So our bodies could actually access safely and efficiently.
The nutrients that were in those foods and every time we're doing
this our bodies responded, right?
And we got, we grew in size and our brains grow in size.
So, we were literally domesticating ourselves over
millions of years. The point where now, here we are
in these modern bodies and modern brains that if I took
anybody. And I don't care, I don't care
who Or if your Bear Grylls, if you're the best survival sin,
the world that you all did and a wild plants and do all the
behavior patterns of animals and knew how to survive and threw
you in the middle of the woods with no Technologies whatsoever.
We would all die because we would not be able to support and
nutritional needs of these bodies without creating the
Technologies needed to process these materials from our
environment. That's, I mean, that's the
reality in the fragility of our species, and we don't see much
of that because most of us, Us are so disconnected from our
food system that a lot of the food processing and all those
things are happening, you know, behind the scenes, but our we
require Technologies to process food to make it a safe inertia
as possible and and that's just the reality of it.
Yeah, that makes total sense in my mind.
I've heard Arguments for our brain development, the Catalyst
for brain development, being a mutation and that increased
brain development is what led to us.
Having the wherewithal to create tools, is it that way or do you
view it more? So as you know, we were able to
just kind of happenstance upon something sharp, and then we
started be able to have access to scavenged remains and then
eventually, you know, first choice on these animals and that
was the Catalyst for the for the brain development.
What's the? It's kind of like a classic
chicken or egg and kind of question, you know, it is a
chicken and an egg argument and I don't know the answer, but
I'll tell you a few things that they got at least my way of
thinking about it. The first thing is one thing we,
oh, I think we have any clear about is getting more nutrition,
whether or not it's because we're hunting or Scavenging or
whatever. We're doing, didn't wasn't the
Catalyst for larger brains and larger bodies.
Now, I was doing a TV peace in Ireland a few years ago and we
were, you know, we're making some tools and Butcher and
things out and but old know anything, the Wilderness in
Ireland. And the host, they asked me
since, you know about this, In Excel.
What if you just read a chimpanzee, a whole bunch of
food, a whole bunch of meat right now with their brains get
bigger. So, no, you'd have a well-fed
chimpanzees, his reality of it. It wasn't that we were
Increasing our, you know, dietary nutrition and it was
pushing our brains and our bodies get bigger.
There was some other catalysts or a host of other catalysts
that were happening. That was the spark and the
increased nutritional availability is what allowed
those changes to actually supported those changes over
time. And I don't want us to have the
idea either that it was a, it was a one-time thing.
It was like, oh, all of a sudden that too many Our brains jump in
size, until only time it happened.
If you look at and I wish I had a chart to show you, but if you,
if you started at even three and a half million years ago and
shorted the brain growth development through time.
It's not this species has a certain brain size and then all
of a sudden. The next species has a brain
size, a little bigger in the next species, a little bit
bigger, but it's not the way that it worked.
It was if you look at that individual species over time,
some of these species These are on the planet for millions of
years. They have a certain brain size
when they first appear and they whatever they were doing.
Whatever the spark was. Whatever the nutritional back up
that supported. It was their brains were growing
as they were on this planet right over thousands hundreds of
thousands millions of years. So if you take saying also put
the same when they first appeared in office has seen when
they became extinct, their brains are much larger at the
end and they were in the beginning.
Thing for Homo habilis. Same thing for Homo erectus same
thing for neanderthals, but what's interesting is when you
hit Homo sapiens, we appear with a certain brain size at 300,000
years ago, and it plateaus. In fact, it's not only straight
line. Our brains are actually slightly
smaller now than they were three hundred thousand years ago.
So, I bring this up because it wasn't one event wasn't one
food. It wasn't one thing that allowed
this to happen. It was a multitude of factors.
Some, we have some ideas about and I'll explain them in just a
minute. Some we have yet to discover,
but it was consistently happening over time.
Now, certainly in certain periods of time like a 2 million
years ago when we start humping and develop fire Technologies,
our brains and bodies jump in size our brains exponentially
grow. So I think it was a huge.
I think those hunting and Fire. I played in it a huge role in
the development of our ancestors.
But again throughout the entirety of three million years
up until more recent times, our brains and bodies will
continuously growing even within the same species.
Now, there's been a lot of ideas about what that worked at
Catalyst. Might be, I've heard everything
from the hallucinogenic drugs which allowed us to potentially
think outside of the box and you know, expand our brain Ends that
then that was the Catalyst supported by this food.
There's, there's a valid argument several arguments that
have to do with increased population size.
And as you know, and anybody listening to this knows one of
the most taxing things for our brains is creating and
maintaining relationships. And the more people that we have
access to more difficult. That is and it requires
literally complex thinking and if we started as a band of know,
six, seven, eight, nine, ten, Twelve people.
And then those groups were growing and growing and growing
and developing more complex City that alone could be.
It's a very simplistic argument, but that could be one of the
catalysts to force our brains to get a little bit bigger.
And again thinking outside of the box got you ain't got you.
So this is super fancy to me because you know, kind of going
back to that, you know, early childhood textbooks, things like
everything that I saw was look, we started eating more.
Meet and we started having access to better nutrition and
that was the Catalyst, but then like you said with the
chimpanzee, like if you give them a bunch of ribs, they're
not necessary and get smarter. So I like the I mean, I think
the concept of there being some type of genetic mutation that is
evolving from generation to generation that's leading to
this increased. Brain development, makes sense.
But either way, we're getting bigger brains, and we're using
that increased knowledge to develop tools and processing
techniques. Deprioritize and meet more so
than anything else, I would? Yes, although I would say animal
more than just me, right? That's I think that's a huge
piece of it. But yes, to prioritize animal
resources over over other things.
I'm confident that because when you look at it from like a
locational base standpoint, like when all this is going down, you
said, Homo sapiens. Come into the picture about
300,000 years ago. I mean, when was the last ice
age in which the availability? In abundance of vegetation of
just significantly diminished. The last ice age ended between
twelve and fifteen thousand years ago.
So it did, there were tons of ice ages.
And so the most recent one ended about told 15,000 years ago and
there was like, even when there was not an Ice Age per se in
occurrence, there wasn't near the Panacea of vegetation to
pick from, you know, throughout the globe like there is now
because we're able to, you know, farming, all the advances we've
made from an agricultural standpoint have led to Greater
abundance. In you know plants as a food
source, but like before all that technological advancement came,
I guess I shouldn't say advancement but just technology
came there was nothing near the abundance of vegetation.
So there is a larger percentage of the species, the human
species that had to rely more heavily on meat as opposed to
getting all of their needs met through vegetation, correct?
Oh 100% And and again remember that it's not as simple, you
know, I think. What when I used to fall into
this trap, this idea that, when we're thinking about how people
in the past had access to different, plant resources, the
Imaging in my head used to be. Oh, what is it like in the
produce section of the grocery store that you can just go in
with your, with your shopping cart?
Just load your shopping cart that and that's what the the
outside world was to them. That's not the case not.
Again, even the plants in your grocery store every single
plant, on this planet has some level of toxin in some are
fairly benign. Some will kill you outright.
Many of them will build up in your body over time and cause
chronic issues later, but all plants even in the grocery
store. Have some level of toxin in them
that we have to consider as you're making choices about what
you're going to consume how much when and how we're going to
process them. But that's, that's more
important when we're looking at wild plants and the need for
technology to process these Foods before we eat them.
It's not as simple as. Oh, that's a planet.
They pick it up. Going to eat it.
So there's a plant. I need to understand that plant.
What do I have to do to that plant to make it safe to eat?
And what do I have to do to make those nutrients in it available
to me? And then only then can I consume
it. And if you look at the staple
foods, in a lot of and even still living traditional
societies, things like manioc, South America, or potatoes in
parts of South America, the wild version of those plants were
incredibly. Toxic like will kill you toxic
and required extensive processing in order to make them
safe to eat. So here we are with looking at
the staple foods of a lot of groups around the world that
were incredibly toxic plants that.
Either a lot of the toxins were bred out of them through
selective pressure and agriculture, or they're still
using processing techniques to overcome.
Those toxins. Manioc is Pez a Sinai producing
compound in it. That requires extensive
processing from grading and drying, and fermenting.
And then if you do it wrong, there's still people that die
every year from from poisoning, from it.
There's potatoes that are still growing today.
I just, I did research a couple years ago in Bolivia and Peru
with aymara and quechua groups, where they're still growing is
incredibly toxic versions of potatoes, and they're either
fermenting them from Over six months in a picnic ground to
detoxify them, or other groups are literally eating potatoes
with clay. At the same time, the clay binds
to the toxins in the potato and pass safely through their
digestive tract. Well, they can get the nutrients
from them. So, you know, even if we're
talking about a group of people that want to be massive
quantities of plants, it's not like walking through the produce
section of the grocery store with a shopping cart.
Yeah, totally. And I mean, I'm not a hardcore,
you know, beat my drum carnivore, by any means.
Ends and say that, you know, humans should only eat meat and
every vegans, you know, totally incorrect.
However, there's so many people, you know, from the vegan based
community that say I just want to return to what is more
natural and you know, kind of how we've how we've eaten.
And when you just start pulling the curtain back is just not
really the case. I mean you look at you know,
anything in the produce aisle these days even like a like a,
you know cam of corn on a cob of corn, you know half a million
years ago. Or not even have been years ago,
like 300,000 years ago. Was it looked more like a blade
of grass than a cob of corn that you see today?
So it's like, it's not even the same food group anymore hardly.
Well, not even three thousand ways to go 10,000 years ago.
It was, it was a, it was a have sent a that.
The ancestors was just a blade of grass.
And yet we forget it's crazy. Because when same thing that I
mentioned earlier, if you if you go back in time, just just like
you just, did you go back in time and look at At how our
relationship with this particular food started.
What was that food? Like, what were the conditions
under which we start eating that food.
It paints an entirely different picture of what were being told
Now by Major food marketing companies and the media and all
these sorts of things. So a great example is corn or
Maize. If you let your yard grow and
don't mow it, the stuff, you know, and and all of us at some
kind of miss the patch of grass hearing and it came to seed
You're looking at, when you look at that, overgrown grass is
exactly what pay a cent. They the ancestors to Corn would
have looked like 10,000 years ago or very, very, very similar.
And it is only because we genetically modified it, even
10,000 years ago, through selective pressure.
What closer to nine thousand years ago, but that we were able
to select for bigger kernels and we were able to select for you.
If you look at early days and sometimes even grown today,
every single kernel, right? Every single kernel of corn,
used to be encased in its own sheath.
So, you know, how you get a cob of corn today and you, you know,
you shuck the corn you had to shook every single kernel.
So one of the genetic mutations that our ancestors select before
was the ability to have the entire theme tasting, just one
big sheet. So you can Harvest it much more
easily. There is nothing natural,
nothing natural about corn and you can have, you can have that
same argument and talk about all the different plants in Our
advice. They are And in fact, many of
the animals as well. I mean chicken unfortunately.
Chicken breast is still celebrated by so many people
that want to get healthy. There is nothing natural about
chicken breasts. I mean, we have domesticated a
bird to the point where it doesn't fly anymore and then we
celebrate the part of that bird that muscle, that doesn't even
work right breast. And so, looking back in time
really helps clarify, or put at least a different lens.
It's on all of these different arguments, totally agree.
I want to dive into the the fire that you mentioned because you
know, you said that once you're really kind of harnessed fire as
a tool from a processing standpoint can cook.
That's so from a nutrient availability standpoint.
There's some things are going to be some new Tunes going to get
lost when you cook them in. Some are going.
We're going to gain better access to them after they've
been cooked. So when it comes to things like
like muscle meat, for instance, Are we gaining more from a
nutritional standpoint after that's been cooked versus Raw?
Yeah, there's been there's been some work done in in this area.
So it looks like first off most of the enemy.
If we forget about the muscle for a second, forget about the
Flesh. And look at the rest of the
animal. So the blood, the fat in the
organs, the marrow the brains, those parts of the animal are in
most cases, most nutritious most bioavailable just as they are in
their raw state. If you cook them a little It's
not that big of a deal certainly.
If you overcook them, or boil them too much or whatever.
You're losing some nutrients, but for the most part, you can
get a meeting. Our human body can have direct
access to almost all the nutrients in the awful without
any processing whatsoever. Now, red meat red muscle meat is
slightly and I mean, only slightly more difficult for our
human body to fully access nutrients in without any help
whatsoever. /. And the two things that helped
and these were told very early Technologies, was one is
mechanically processing that food.
In other words, simply slicing dicing grading, you know,
grinding it up, mixing it up. So that's number one.
And if you look at chimpanzees, when they don't often eat red
meat. But when they do, they almost
always eat a particular Leaf at the same time as they eat this,
this meat and the leaf doesn't provide any nutritional value.
It's a very high. Look up containing leaf and it's
almost like sandpaper. And when they're, when they're
chewing the leaf in this meet. At the same time that leaf is
actually helping shred that meet up and mechanically process it
before they before they swallow it.
Mmm, and if you think about the ways that some modern humans eat
were all red meat. If we go to a high-end
restaurant, it's exactly done. This way.
We can either have either have beef carpaccio, which is slice
incredibly thin, or beef tartare, which is Popped up like
hamburger meat. So that's number one.
So a little bit of mechanical processing helps us gain access
to the nutrients in that meat. And the second thing is, it
turns out a little bit of cooking?
And I mean, just a little bit, also helps relieve some of those
nutrients. So, and know, this sounds
incredibly strange, but probably the most bioavailable way to eat
red. Meat is a medium or a hamburger.
Which is done in both of those things are done, you know,
they're it's minced up and it's also just slightly cooked.
Yeah. No, I can totally get behind him
anymore. Hamburger.
There's been a big push here lately.
It's kind of weird, man. Like I've been in the dieting
space for so long and attrition space for so long.
I see all these Hypes and these bubbles form and people get so
dogmatic and it's just, it's comical, but there's been this
big push here lately for everybody to, you know, return
to Natural natural state eat everything raw raw carnivore for
the win, and I'm not opposed to that.
I don't personally eat a whole bunch of just raw anything but
there's there's like when you when you go back in time and you
start saying, okay, I'm going to eat like they did three hundred
thousand years ago, 200,000 years ago.
I mean everything, raw carnivore or slightly cook it.
Like I would be willing to bet that a lot of what you see back.
Then from an animal standpoint. He isn't played with near the
parasites and and issues that are in the modern food supply
due to overpopulation factory farming, things of that nature.
So it's not probably a safe thing to go, you know,
full-blown. Grab some, you know, Raw Liver
Off the Wall. Mart supermarkets shelf in the
Sardine that wrong. Oh, what?
I'm 100% 100%. So and it's also very important
to recognize that. You know, what I'm talking about
here is the absolute best practice.
If you want to get the most amount of nutrients from every
single bite that you take, you know, maximize all of it.
This is this is this is what I'm talking about.
However, no matter what. And an overly cooked steak is
going to provide you with a lot more nutrients in a more
bioavailable State than just about any vegetable on the
planet. Right?
Or or or I I don't like raw liver.
I just I can do raw. Chicken liver fine.
We're all beef liver. Its I don't do a very good job
with it, but I love pate and that's cook.
So I might not be 100% maximizing every Every single
minutiae of that particular food, but it's still 1,000 times
better than just about anything else that that I could eat.
So and you make a very good point.
I would say the same thing. I am a huge raw milk Advocate,
especially in fermented raw, dairy, but, and I wholeheartedly
think the safest, most nutrient dense and viable form of dairy
is fermented raw dairy from From a high-quality well-raised
well-cared-for, cow and the milks been treated the right
way. It's the safest form of dairy.
However, it raw dairy can also be one of the most dangerous
forms of dairy. And it all has to do with how
that animals raised what it's fed, how the milk has dealt with
that sort of the, you know, comes out and the like, so it's
the same thing with the meat that you talking about.
No eating raw chicken liver or her role liver, raw meat from an
incredible. Healthy animal is a Different
thing than getting it Off the Wall.
Mart shelf and bring it home and be frosting, it trying to enter.
I need it. They're two completely different
things. Yeah, totally.
Green. I think, you know, a lot of
people get so hung up on the very surface level stuff like,
you know, the macronutrient distribution calories and that's
all super important. You know, I think it definitely
deserves it's time to line line. But I feel like, you know,
really going like as you get deeper and deeper into nutrition
as which is true of anything as you get deeper into anything.
You really start to see all these rabbit holes, you go into
to and, you know, my Evolution through diet nutrition has led
to really place in a lot of significance on where things
were sourced. And you know, what, they were
fed because that's going to have a byproduct on my body's ability
to, you know, take him that nutrition and have it more
bioavailable. And just honestly from a, from a
moral, and ethical standpoint. I like knowing that the food
that I'm eating was raised humanely, or I do a lot of
hunting, so was slaughtered humanely.
I think, you know, it's not probably fees.
Of the entire eight billion people on the Earth population
to know exactly where everything was sourced and take up hunting.
But I feel like people that have the means to should absolutely
try and make that more of a priority.
And just simply get closer to where their food is sourced and
comes from 100%. And I would also say, it doesn't
even have to be that all, or most of their food comes from
from something, like hunting or even fishing that even going
once a year or or tagging along with a buddy.
The and going once in your life and being a part of that
process, I think is incredibly important and makes you look at
the Modern meat industry in a completely different way.
And I would say not only the sourcing of the animals things
like like hunting, or raising. Your own animals is incredibly
important but also the the slaughtering and the butchering
on credibly important. So if you don't have access to,
you know, maybe going out, and going hunting, depending on
where you live, or what your social network is like, But you
do have access to actually seeing somebody butcher, an
animal, do it and take your kids.
If and that is one of the things I write about in The Book of the
animal section is that there's no bones and skin and feathers
and hair in our kitchens anymore.
And our kids don't, it's very difficult for them to associate.
What that chicken breasts on their plate, and something that
was living in a once living on And we couch, I've been at so
many different tables, where we're eating meat, on a plate
and somebody mentions an animal and they shut the conversation
down. No, we can't go talk about
animals. I don't want to think about it.
I just want to eat my food and not even think about it.
And because the exact wrong way that, that sort of approach has
got us in the place. We are.
Now we've turned our back on and and haven't paid attention to
what's happening in the modern food industry.
He's Capo's and know, all the, all the horrors of a lot of the
modern industry. Have happened on our watch while
we weren't watching and you know, we make a point when I
when I bring an animal of this house likewise, I do a lot of
hunting, we bring whole animals into the house and even if it's
something that's domesticated. We bring half pigs and put them
on the counter and butcher them on the counter.
The kids are a part of it, and sometimes if they're not a part
of it, they at least see it. And I know for some people that
all may sound strange, but at least go to the grocery store
and bring home an entire chicken where the it resembles the shape
of an animal and there's bone Bones and their skins.
And even though it's in a little plastic bag on the inside.
There's no liver and Gizzard and a heart on the inside and maybe
even the neck. If you're lucky.
Those are the kinds of things that I think are our families
and our kids need to see because it builds respect and we
understand there's a responsibility.
There's it's okay. In fact, I think we're supposed
to remember that. Something is once living and now
it's dead. And now we're nourish your
families. As a result of it, 100% man.
Like I've always said that, You know my my perspective as a
hunter and having the opportunity to take a life has
only heightened my appreciation for life.
And I feel like that can be said, I mean that's true for
people that have that perspective that that live this
life. I mean, there's there's a bunch
of bad Hunters out there that are just, you know, driving road
signs and shooting things and leaving them lay.
And I've got zero respect for those individuals, but the
people are doing it for the right reasons to put food on
their table to know where their food comes from to be a part of
that process. Those are oftentimes the most
devout, you know conservationists and people out
there fighting for animal rights welfare, because they appreciate
that life. May, I think I think hunting is
an amazing amazing way to get closer to animals.
We just had a two cows. Crystal my wife, her brother was
willing enough to raise two cows one for him.
One for me, and we just went up there.
I went there two weeks ago and helped butcher the whole thing
as first met ever done account before.
Or and that was a I mean that was a freaking task right there,
man. I never done account and it took
us like 13 hours per cow. I started getting pretty good
throw by the end of it. I was like, hacking off these
rib eye steaks and they're looking like rib eye.
Steaks were supposed to look. But but just simply being a part
of that whole process and know him the exact cut for how to
make a New York strip, how to make a rib.
I had a had a, you know, cut off around the shoulder for a cow
and be able to see understand, you know, how that cut was made
in a butcher shop and then what went on behind the scenes?
I mean, It's that's invaluable information there.
That's a huge undertaking. You can to full cows.
Yeah, to full Cows, as bad as about 13 hours for the first
day. We got the 1/1 count on the
first day, took us about 13 hours.
And then by the end of that, the second day, we were much more
efficient with the second cow, but it was no joke, man, like it
was, it was cool to like, we bought some books like How to
put your account books and I went through is like, oh, you
know, picture perfect and everything.
I was learning how to do all these cuts and make everything.
NG. But I've done so many dear, so I
never really bad and I'm about doing dear.
But the cow with that was that was a much bigger undertaking,
for sure. It probably made you a better
deal breaker. Well, imagine.
Yeah, but I mean, I think that they just, it makes me
appreciate everything so much more.
Like when I went to a butcher shop here locally, once I got
back in town, you know, I'm looking all across their their
shelf, and I'm seeing all these different cuts of steaks and I
now know how to cut that specific steak.
You just gained so much more perspective and appreciation for
the foods. You're buying and eating.
Yeah, and that's exactly what I was referring to.
There is something incredibly valuable to being able to hunt
on a regular basis. Fish on a regular basis, put
your animals on a regular basis and it's amazing, but for so
many people that's Out Of Reach and I completely understand why.
But even an experience like that, you know, I think that cow
or being around a pig, which is a little bit more manageable
even in Somebody's house or even if it's a chicken, if that's the
best you have access to, you still get gained a lot of the
that appreciation that respect that, that understanding of that
responsibility. And the other thing is not only
is it, is it more nourishing. Is it more ethical and more
sustainable financially. It makes Incredible sense.
And, you know, we we can get a half a pig here, a half of a
local Pig for about $40 and a half of a good-sized pig.
And that gives me two hams to have a big in a small.
I use those different sides of the leg.
It gives me a whole bunch of bacon.
I get a bunch of meat for sausage.
We cure some of it. We have, we rendered lard.
We make bone broth it. We make head cheese and that's
an incredible amount of food for $130 and about a half a day's
work and obviously pigs a lot smaller.
So that's more than a cow. But even if you think about it
with the chicken, you bring it, I was just doing some work
yesterday and it was saying the average price of a chicken
breast is three dollars and twenty something cents a pound
and the average around the country and the average price of
a whole chicken is a dollar, twenty something a pound.
Wow, and I understand that, some of that weight is certainly in
Bones, not a ton of it, but but in Balance, but every bit of
that chicken, Is in, you know, entirely edible, and nutritious.
And I would, I would say more nutritious than the chicken
breast. I mean, you got the breast, you
got the thighs, you got the wing that you got, the skin, got the
livers, the hearts, the neck, and then you, then, then you're
left with the bones to make bone broth from and it just makes it
just makes sense all the way around.
And then you throw that financial piece, you know, sort
of, to kind of close the loop on all of it. 100% one thing.
I've always appreciated about you.
Like, I've been following you on social for a while now, and you
Oftentimes bring your whole family in there.
You'll make the sourdough bread together.
You do all the butcher in together, you make like these.
These like, it looks like you've got a big pizza stone.
We're set up for bacon pizzas. I mean it you have everything
set up like you would expect to be set up, you know back in the
Renaissance times or something homesteading asking nature.
And I feel like, you know, that that's something that I've
always appreciated and always tried to go back to myself and I
feel like the more especially now with all the craziness in
the Like the past two years, especially the more I see, all
this chaos abound, the more. I just want to return to like
this homesteading type philosophy where I've got my
close-knit group of people, and we have like this bartering
system in which, you know, they got some, some great green beans
in their Garden. It but I've got a great chicken
and we'll just swap that out and live happily ever after.
And that's not realistic for a lot of people in this current
day and age, but I feel like doing anything you can to kind
of return towards that lifestyle in some form or fashion is going
to be out of contagious. Yeah, 100% in it and it gives
you. And this is where I think it's
incredibly valuable. Not only do those experiences,
those things you just mentioned or some of my favorite memories,
you know, cooking with my family and and hunting and butchering
and forging whatever we're doing.
Those are some of my most incredible memories and I'm hope
I hope they are for my kids as well.
But that beyond that, it really and I don't think they realize
it at this time, but it really We makes you look at the world
and your place in it through a completely different set of eyes
and everything from how you shop at the grocery store, to where
you shop to how you deal. With other people, what you see,
all of those things are lessons that are just kind of
subconsciously being learned through all of those, all those
sorts of activities. And I will say one thing that
has happened since the last time we spoke.
And I think some of the pictures that you might prefer to, or
happening there, my wife, and I actually took a huge leap.
Bleep about a year ago. She left her position as a
director of special ed a nearby County school system.
And I left Washington College and we launched what were the
modern Stone Age kitchen, which is actually where we teach tens
of classes, in-person and virtual, but also, we are
producing food in line with everything that we read about,
in the book, everything that you and I have talked about on this
podcast and it's right there in the heart of Chester.
Then I'm pretty confident that a lot of the pictures you're
talking about. Have happened in there.
And it's a great playing. A lot of the people.
I'm very lucky because I've had the opportunity to we built a
wood fired oven in the backyard. My father took me hunting.
Let him pass on to my kids and and, and we cook from scratch.
And, you know, we have really good access to raw materials and
information all these sorts of things.
But what I wanted to do was offer that same sort of
opportunity to the community, and that's what we've been able
to do there. That's awesome.
And I mean, you're paying it forward in ways, you don't even
realize yet. I mean, the, the lines you're in
painting. For those kids that would never
in a million years have that opportunity.
Otherwise, I mean that that's pretty powerful stuff right
there, minute tip my hat to you for them.
Well, thanks so much. It's incredibly rewarding, it
can pay that. Well, I'm super excited for
everything. You've got cooking.
I guess, literally, and figuratively.
But with regard to, what you got in the pipeline from a
professional standpoint, you've got the book that was published
in November, correct? Yep.
Just came out in November and it's launching in other places
of the world, actually this month.
Weeks, awesome. Well, I'm gonna get a copy.
I'm going to read that. And I'm going to take part in
what it's saying, because I think we're on the same
wavelength. Therefore sure.
What else is 2022? Going to?
Hopefully many anything else coming.
Well, we got a lot going on. So at the monastery kitchen,
we're launching more and more products every week that we all
hardly believe in. So, we're doing a whole line of
bone broth and fermented Butters and peppe's and tons of tons of
different things. That what I love is, we've been
able to make this book, Book come alive.
We're able to provide all the book, all the foods.
And the processes that we write about in this book.
We're providing not only the food there, but also the
workshops of the and the tools, literally the tools to make
those Foods in your own home right there.
But something, I'm super excited about is, we've had a tremendous
response to the book and a lot of people asking for more and
we're launching February first, two months in pensive.
Virtual class. We actually go through this book
chapter by chapter every single week and we do a whole bunch of
have a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes stories.
There's a lot of this book is actually a journey around the
world and through time and there's a ton of different
people that you meet in this book in the pages of this book.
And we're going to have special guests on here from all over the
world, from Italy to Africa, to all over on these on these
classes and then every single one of them will end with
cooking. Most was this book has 75
recipes in it. It's a practical book.
How to take these lessons and actually do them and make use of
them in your own home kitchen. And they're going to, we're
going to go through them many of those recipes, and have demos,
and classes, and questions, and answers, and all that.
And that Launches on, on February 1st, and we will.
And there's information on are on my website, eat like a
human.com about that. Is that going to be something?
That is kind of like, Evergreen. Like you can even after you
start people can can Jump onto and then have access to the
recordings or is this something like a one-time thing?
You got to be a part of the class real-time know you could
jump in. At any time you can jump in
anytime and then you, there's ways have access to the classes
that you've missed as well. Sure.
Nice. I'm at the check that out for
sure, man. This then that sounds pretty
awesome. So we got on top of that.
We've got a certainly our work around the world has been
greatly impacted by koban. But we're planting a few seeds
right now. That'll hopefully, hopefully
grow into full blown research opportunities and Northern
Scandinavia and in Mexico and hopefully back in Africa as the
year goes on, very cool. Very cool.
I will keep following the journey because like I said,
I've been following you for a while and everything you post
and it's just awesome. Awesome stuff.
I'm learning. Something every time I go to
your page, have you put on a bunch of stuff on YouTube?
I haven't checked out YouTube. Are you are you putting like
demos out there? No, we're actually going to
start doing that as well. This year.
You know, we have a there's a lot of there's so many things
that I'm in. Both of us are incredibly
passionate about it and it's hard to pick and choose where
you put energies because there's so much work to be done.
I one of the things that I'm really focusing on now is this
this nose-to-tail whole animal approach to To butchering and
cooking and eating. And we're going to start making
a whole bunch of videos on really accessible ways to do
that in our kitchens make those available in places like YouTube
for sure. Nice.
See, I thought about doing that same thing, but it's weird man.
Like with YouTube. There's so much censorship over
things that you would not think would need to be censored.
Like, I've thought about doing like a how-to video on how to,
you know, process and butcher. A deer from start to finish and
I've had things like that flagged in the past.
It's so it's like, I want to dive super deep into that but
it's like the societal powers that be don't want you to.
I know. And then we're looking and it
might not be YouTube. We're looking for the right
platform. It might be Vimeo.
I'm not entirely sure because there's so much I know for me
growing up. I my dad taught me how to hunt
my dad, taught me how to butcher, and he did a fantastic
job and there's put their stings, some things that I
didn't know then about how to how to field dress a deer
properly. If you're a You going to save
the liver if you're actually going to use the intestines for
casings for sausage and and and save the caul fat in those sorts
of things that I just wish. I had a YouTube like video to
teach me and it's such a, such a great platform, but it needs to
not be censored or we have to find the right platform to do it
for sure. Yeah.
Well, whatever you find platform was.
I'll be I'll be subscribed and following without a doubt man.
Love what you doing back and likewise.
Thank you so much. One more time, where do people
go to? What's the website again?
Okay. So my website is eat like a
human.com, which is also the name of the book and you can
find information on the book. My blog is their classes virtual
classes in person classes and then modern Stone Age.
Kitchen.com is our storefront and where you can find
information about the foods that were producing and some of the
in-person classes there as well. Awesome.
Well, I most certainly linked into all of those.
Keep doing. What you doing, man.
I love the work. I appreciate the message you're
sending and definitely keep in touch.
I think we're both speaking at a few conferences this year.
So I'm looking forward to seeing you in person again.
Oh, you want to keep it calm? Yeah.
Yeah, I'll be speaking of Quito con and you're speaking there as
well, right? Absolutely, man.
I look forward to meeting you in person.
It'll be great man. Will have to share a big old,
ribeye steak dinner, or something.
I look forward to. It.
Sounds great. Take care, until next time.
All right. Sounds good.
Fuck you soon.