1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,160 Ketone IQ has always been used as like the sports string, the 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,800 performance string, the fuel or these athletes need. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,360 For the first time ever we looked at ketones and anaerobic 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,000 because for the longest time we always thought ketones are 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,800 always associated with aerobic exercises or endurance exercise. 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,720 However, in this study that was published, the results came out 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,360 were very, very impressive because we are looking at 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:28,440 improved average power, improved peak power, improved cadence and 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,480 decrease fatigue index. So not only they are pushing 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,360 harder, they're also pushing faster because the cadence also 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,720 improved. Another interesting study that 12 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,160 is also revolving around oxygen, looking at ketone IQ, just one 13 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:44,240 dose in heart failure patients. They managed to improve the 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,800 cardiac output, the stroke volume and the ejection 15 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,720 fraction, all of which are really important clinical 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,720 outcomes that improve the survivability of these patients. 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,920 And we are live, Doctor Ladd. How are you, Sir? 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:56,960 Good. Thank you. 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,760 How are you? Good man, good. 20 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,120 I had you on a podcast, but I was trying to think when the 21 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,120 last time was. It's been over a year, two 22 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,840 years. Yeah, I think, I think about two 23 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:11,400 years now because, yeah, because it was right before I started 24 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,920 hosting the HVMM podcast and I hosted it for about a year and a 25 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,480 half and then took a break in the past year. 26 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,920 Is that podcast still going? No, it's, it hasn't been going 27 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,120 for a while now. I think for about 6-7 months now 28 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,320 because I have been focusing my efforts on grant applications 29 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:34,280 and research collaborations to really push the science forward. 30 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,600 Because while I was doing that every week, because we were 31 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,280 releasing episode every week, I, I, I got very little bandwidth 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,960 to really expand the science. So now we're actually seeing a 33 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,720 lot more collaborations, a lot more researchers who are 34 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:53,960 interested in using ketone IQ to treat certain diseases as well 35 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,960 as increasing performance. Nice. 36 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,640 Nice. Well, I definitely want to dive 37 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,840 into the collaborations, man. But with us having talked two 38 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,880 years ago now, I'm sure there's a lot of new science in the the 39 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,000 realm of exogenous ketone supplementation. 40 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,280 Yeah, I think two years ago we were just covering the ketone 41 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,320 one O 1, right? You were, you know, obviously 42 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,360 you were very well versed in the, in the ketone diet and, and 43 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,160 we're just talking the differences between like 44 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,240 exogenous ketones and endogenous ketones. 45 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:22,040 So here I think we can do a little bit more of a deeper dive 46 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,200 on, on what's new, right. And I'm going to take a ketone 47 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,760 IQ shot. I need it in the middle of the 48 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,120 day. I feel like I meant to actually 49 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,440 drink some before this episode. I normally have a sip like I've 50 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,280 got like a 60 mil shot that I'll take before I record an episode. 51 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,400 But I've changed my studio setup so all my stuff's different. 52 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,080 So I sat down in the chair earlier than I normally do and I 53 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,480 totally forgot mine. My shot of ketones man. 54 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,200 So. I mean, feel free to go take it. 55 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,040 I mean, we can always edit it, you know? 56 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,960 I might have to, man. I might have to. 57 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,120 So, yeah, let's roll up our sleeves, man. 58 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,520 With the science, like with all the new and, you know, upcoming 59 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,680 science and just everything that's elapsed over the last two 60 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,600 years, what what has changed, what has been learned, what has 61 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,040 shifted since our last recording? 62 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,880 OK, let's let's focus first on the performance because I think 63 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,000 ketone IQ has always been used as like the sport string, the 64 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,640 performance string, the fuel that all these athletes need. 65 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,640 So the two main papers are 11 paper that has been out. 66 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,880 The other one we are just wrapping up and and about to 67 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:28,160 submit end of this month mainly focusing around performance, 68 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,240 athletic performance. So the paper with University of 69 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,440 North Georgia was out in January that was looking at anaerobic 70 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,360 exercise. So for the first time ever, we 71 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,280 looked at ketones and anaerobic because for the longest time we 72 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,280 always thought ketones are always associated with aerobic 73 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,560 exercises or endurance exercise because it is it is derived from 74 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,200 fatty acids and fatty acids get converted into beta 75 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,200 hydroxybutyrate, which is ketones in your liver. 76 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,200 So for the longest time we thought, OK, fatty acid is 77 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,000 better for endurance, glucose is better for anaerobic exercises 78 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,760 because there's a high intensity anaerobic exercise. 79 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,600 You need glycolysis, which is oxygen independent, you get a 80 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,960 fast ATP production. However, in this study that was 81 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,720 published, what we have seen is that these people, they are, 82 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,160 they are not keto adapter people. 83 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,519 They have had a breakfast, standard breakfast that we give 84 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:20,440 them. They have glycogen stores and we 85 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,560 just give them ketone IQ and at the end of the 5K run, they jump 86 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,520 straight onto a bike, a stationary bike and we make them 87 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,320 do a Wingate test. So they have to, they have to 88 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,360 push as fast as they could, as hard as they could for 10 89 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,800 seconds and then rest for 30 seconds and then do that for 90 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,040 five times. And the results came out were 91 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:45,680 very, very impressive because we are looking at improved average 92 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,640 power, improved peak power, improved cadence and decrease 93 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,160 fatigue index. So not so not only they are 94 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,920 pushing harder, they're also pushing faster because the 95 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,360 cadence also improved and then they feel less fatigued at the 96 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,600 end of it. So that to us is a very novel 97 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,720 finding that a lot of us didn't expect. 98 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,800 Because if we look at the RAR, which is the respiratory 99 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,680 exchange ratio, they are still burning more glucose than fat. 100 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:17,440 They're still above 1, but they are significantly lower than 101 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,080 those who are in placebo. So we're pushing it towards fat, 102 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,560 which technically would make them do worse, but they're doing 103 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,280 better. So what we think is happening is 104 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:32,360 the effect of ketone IQ on the brain, similar effect similar to 105 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:38,400 that of a caffeine effect where it numbs your pain during that 106 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,000 anaerobic exercise. So it's a sort of analgesic 107 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,240 effect so that they they feel less pain in the localized 108 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,440 muscle area where you are exerting force for the 109 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:48,480 anaerobic. Exercise. 110 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:52,360 So like what? What from like a lactic acid 111 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:53,920 standpoint? Like, were there any tests done 112 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,200 on, you know, lactic acid levels and any shifts between the 113 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,520 ketone IQ group and the placebo? We, I wish we did, but we didn't 114 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:08,440 do any muscle biopsies to sort of reduce the invasion the, the, 115 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,120 the invasive techniques and making sure that we get passed 116 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,240 quickly on the ethics and make sure we get the study up and 117 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,600 running quickly. But there are studies in the 118 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,760 past that showed with ketones, exhaustion, ketones, lactic acid 119 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,520 buildup was decreased. But that was in endurance 120 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,480 exercise. So it'd be very interesting to 121 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,040 see what difference would it make in anaerobic high intensity 122 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,480 exercise where lactic acid buildup really quickly and then 123 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,120 they dissipate very quickly as well as you get oxygen in. 124 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,640 Yeah, 'cause I can feel like from, like from my experience, 125 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,000 you know, having been keto adapted, fat adapted for over a 126 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,520 decade now, my MCT transporters are in greater abundance, which 127 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,560 clear, you know, pyruvate and lactate. 128 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,800 So I don't have near the burning sensation that I used to before 129 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,160 adopting a ketogenic diet. But I would be curious to see 130 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,560 what happens for, you know, acute settings and individuals 131 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,920 that are not deeply adapted. Yeah. 132 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,520 I mean we have seen the UP regulation of MCT transporters, 133 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:13,360 mono carboxylates transporters when people have taken ketones. 134 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,320 So it's definitely upregulated. Now whether or not that 135 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:21,960 upregulation of MCT affects the accumulation of lactic that we 136 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:23,600 don't know. Interesting. 137 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,440 So. So what all markers were tested 138 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,920 for with this test specifically? That was purely on the 139 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,800 performance level it was in. We didn't I I don't believe we 140 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,280 tested any markers apart from blood glucose, blood ketones. 141 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:37,960 Got you. When we're going to have a test 142 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,240 with like resistance trained athletes, that's what I'm really 143 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,200 curious. To see that, that would be super 144 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:43,800 cool. That's the problem though. 145 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,400 Like because of the conventional understanding of metabolism that 146 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,200 they, a lot of researchers don't believe this result, right. 147 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,440 So even like getting it published, we had so many 148 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,720 reviewers just say like, it's not enough or like it's, it's, 149 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,200 it's, it's not convincing enough. 150 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,840 But like this is what the data shows. 151 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,360 I mean, we HVMN, even though we sponsored the study, we did not 152 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,280 have any Privy to the data. We were not involved in the data 153 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:08,600 collection. We were not involved in data 154 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,920 analysis. We were not involved even in the 155 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,480 manuscript writing until the end. 156 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:19,520 So I think this paper now gives way to say, hey, like let's do a 157 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:25,160 more a more comprehensive study that includes like resistance 158 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,120 training athletes and we could potentially even include keto 159 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,280 adapted athletes versus non keto adapted athletes. 160 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,919 It's just finding funding and the the institution who is 161 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:38,159 willing to do that. Yeah, I know it, it's tricky, 162 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:39,640 man. Like we've, we've had there's 163 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,120 been I think 2 keto brick studies done on my product and 164 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,280 like they'll ask for funds to help fund the study. 165 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,600 So I'll, you know, quote UN quote sponsor the study, but I'm 166 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,800 not involved at all in the data collection or the publication. 167 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,520 What I'm just helping them meet the funds necessary to pay the 168 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,600 powers that be. But yes, studies, I mean, it's 169 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,800 it's a crazy grind, man. Like it takes so long, It's hard 170 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,080 to find good participants for it, especially trying to find 171 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,880 people that are actually found adapted because most of them are 172 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,160 food survey studies. And who knows how accurate those 173 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,080 are. But I think they're definitely 174 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,440 be more research around exogenous ketones and just 175 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,600 ketosis in general for people that are in fact adapted because 176 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,560 from an athletic standpoint, so many of the performance based 177 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:25,360 studies out there are pulling, you know, standard American 178 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,600 diets, consumers off the streets. 179 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,400 They're not giving them any adaptation period whatsoever. 180 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:32,720 So of course the studies are going to show a drop in 181 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,000 performance. Yeah. 182 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,840 And I'm so glad you brought up how difficult it is to actually 183 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,440 run a study and how long it takes. 184 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,080 And, and I appreciate that because a lot of people outside, 185 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,880 they're like, oh, why don't you just run a study on this? 186 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,360 Why don't you just run a study on that? 187 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,040 I'm like, well, the funding, the facilities, the people, the 188 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,680 human resource we need, the expertise we need on the 189 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:54,520 techniques, the different assays that we need to run. 190 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,280 And even after all the data collection is done, there's also 191 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,640 like data analysis and manuscript writing. 192 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,720 And we just can't just like publish overnight. 193 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,800 So that I think more people would need to understand the 194 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,600 difficulty and the challenges that comes with running studies. 195 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,360 And that's also why a lot of times we lag behind on evidence 196 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,000 versus what's already commercial in the market, especially 197 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,960 substances or supplements that are much less stricter being 198 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,440 regulated that than than those who are strict, which are 199 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,000 stricter being regulated than FDA by FDA. 200 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,560 Right. And then the other paper that we 201 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:40,360 are just about wrap about to wrap up is around EPL. 202 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:41,960 Right. Real quick before we go to that 203 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,160 one. So this that we just talked 204 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,560 about that has been published now. 205 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,880 That has been published when? When would that one go live? 206 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,000 That was January, like two months ago. 207 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,120 Yeah, you have to send me the link to that one, Yeah. 208 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,000 So what I'll do at the end? I'm going to send you a Notion 209 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,680 doc that has all the upcoming, current and upcoming 210 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,240 publications in that I have all the links of all the studies 211 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,080 that we are currently doing. If those who are, which are 212 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,040 completed, it will have a publication link and those which 213 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,960 are ongoing, it'll have the clinical trial Gov link. 214 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,600 In case if, if your, if your audience somehow happened to be 215 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,520 in that area and they're interested in joining that 216 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,280 trial. Hey, go sign up, you know. 217 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,560 Totally, man. All right. 218 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,560 So it's hard to do really there. What What's the study that you 219 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,840 are currently wrapping up now? So that one is around recovery 220 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:32,840 and we looked at EPL, which is erythropoietin, which is a 221 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,920 settling molecule that increases red blood cells formation. 222 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,000 And then we looked at angiogenesis, which is new blood 223 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,480 vessels formation and looking at all these biomarkers that comes 224 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,440 with hypoxic adaptation. So a lot of athletes, they like 225 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,240 to train in high altitude because that increases their own 226 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,560 EPO production. When you increase EPO, you 227 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:53,960 increase the high red blood cells. 228 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,560 When you increase red blood cells, you increase oxygen 229 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,800 delivery. And as we know as we work out, 230 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,960 we always need oxygen in order to create ATP. 231 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,640 And in endurance exercise, especially the more oxygen you 232 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,720 can deliver actually in, in, in all exercise, the more oxygen 233 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,600 that you can deliver, the, the, the higher the potential that 234 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,000 you can reach. So that's why EPO was 235 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,400 considered, you know, illegal and blood doping where people 236 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,640 directly inject EPO into their body and get to get it to a 237 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,720 super physiological level that increases risks of other side 238 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,320 effects and, and possibly death. And that was why it was banned. 239 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,400 But what we have seen in this study is that ketone IQ can 240 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,000 enhance your own endogenous EPO production, which means, yes, it 241 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,800 is limited to your own own genetic capacity and genetic 242 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,680 potential. But nonetheless it does increase 243 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:49,640 it to a significant level where you get an advantage over the 244 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,640 placebo group that did did not have ketone IQ. 245 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:59,760 So that is a great show of not only the ability to increase EPO 246 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:04,520 and delivery of oxygen, but that that if you think about the 247 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,480 application side of things, we are looking at multiple things, 248 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,920 not just performance. We're looking at even hypoxic 249 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,960 adaptation. So for divers, for hikers, for 250 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,800 people who are, you know, mountain climbers, you get that 251 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,760 adaptation to hypoxia much quicker and making sure that you 252 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,280 you reduce mountain sickness. There's also another paper that 253 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,920 showed ketones reduced mountain sickness in higher attitude as 254 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,920 well. And then with regards to 255 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,880 angiogenesis, we are looking at new blood vessels formation. 256 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,600 So think about you work out really hard. 257 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:42,360 A lot of people also, you know, always say that the recovery is 258 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,320 as important, if not more important than the workout 259 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,080 itself. Because you spend 1-2 hours 260 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,200 working out, but you are spending the rest of the time 261 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,120 after recovering and getting stronger and rebuilding your 262 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,520 muscles, rebuilding your your nervous system to make it more 263 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,400 adaptable as well as more resilient to the stress that 264 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,040 you're giving it every day. So the recovery has been shown 265 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,760 to improve via androgenesis markers. 266 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:12,080 So we are making new blood blood vessels to deliver the increased 267 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,240 red blood cells into the muscles. 268 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,640 And that is really good thing, because now not only you are 269 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,480 delivering oxygen into your muscles, you are also delivering 270 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,240 the building blocks that you need in order to repair the 271 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,440 muscles, the glucose, the amino acids, the proteins and all 272 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,760 those you need in order to recover well. 273 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,280 And is all of that like is the mechanism of action in both of 274 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,160 those instances simply a result of increased beta hydroxy 275 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,960 butyrate in circulation? Yes, it is. 276 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,880 It is increased beta hydroxy, beta oxy butyrate and as a 277 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,400 result of that and ketone IQ specifically uses R13 Visine 278 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,200 dial, which has been shown to have a vasodilation effect. 279 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,480 And we can talk about that later in in certain therapeutic 280 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,440 disease where, excuse me, certain disease where you have 281 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,400 the lack of blood flow, either it's via, you know, 282 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,280 atherosclerosis like vaso clogged, clogged, clogged up and 283 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,120 vasodilation is essentially helps with that blood flow. 284 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,480 So that could be one reason also why the recovery is better 285 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,880 because you're getting better blood flow and obviously during 286 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,600 exercise that also could result in lower heart rate, lower blood 287 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,880 pressure as you are ramping up the intensity, which makes your 288 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,160 makes your perceived rate of exertion to be a little bit 289 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:39,560 lower as well. What? 290 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:45,320 What is your measure to quantify the increased in dilation of 291 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,720 blood cells, blood vessels better? 292 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,320 I believe it's the arterial blood flow. 293 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:57,080 They, they measured when, when, yeah, they, they, they mentioned 294 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,920 the arterial blood flow, the blood pressure and all that. 295 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,560 And then they also identified the inhibition of endothelin, 296 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:10,480 which is a signaling molecule that constricts blood vessels 297 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,440 with ketones. It inhibits it, so it allows 298 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,720 your blood vessel to relax and dilate. 299 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,320 And again, this is a result of increased beta hydroxy butyrate 300 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,640 in circulation or the 1-3 butanediol specifically before 301 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,280 it converts. So the study that showed the 302 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,200 vasodilation of butanediol was independent of BHP. 303 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:40,400 So we can't, we, we, we weren't able to really separate those 304 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,560 because when you taking butanediol, it automatically 305 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,560 gets converted into BHP in the liver anyway. 306 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,080 But obviously you will have butanol circulating in your 307 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,160 blood, which could be the reason. 308 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,400 But that is also accompanied by the increase in BHP. 309 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,240 Now it could very well that they work in tandem causing the 310 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,520 vasodilation and then the BHP causing the rest of the 311 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,560 signaling downstream effect, which will be the angiogenesis, 312 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,880 the EPO and all of that because EPO was also seen to improve 313 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,000 without, you know, butane all being involved. 314 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,240 And what what is the dosage on on these? 315 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,560 Studies. The study for the anaerobic 316 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,359 study was 0.5g per kilogram of body weight. 317 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,280 So that's quite high dose. For the recovery, it was a 318 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,040 little bit lower. It's 0.3g per kilogram of body 319 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,480 weight. Gotcha. 320 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,400 And the so I'm just familiar with the little camp that comes 321 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,200 with, I get the the concentrate. So I'm typically taking 60 mills 322 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,240 per serving, give or take 45 to 60 mills. 323 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,080 So what does that equate to in grams? 324 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,800 So which one did you get the? I'm getting like I've got those 325 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,400 taller bottles, like is it this one? 326 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,240 Yeah, yeah, those. So concentrate, that is the 327 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,040 dilution. No, this is the 10 doses. 328 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,600 This is, I mean technically this is more concentrated than the 329 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,560 shots because it's 10 grams per 35 mil and then the shots are 10 330 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,760 grams per 59 mil. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. 331 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,560 So. So this one has 10 doses on it, 332 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,400 so that will be equivalent say how? 333 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,400 How do you know how heavy you are in kilograms? 334 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,400 I'll tell you how heavy I am in pounds. 335 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,400 Let me do a little quick conversion here. 336 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:28,920 Some 187 lbs, give or take. Let's see here 187. 337 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:36,760 It's 84 kilograms, 84.8. So you would take 25 grams for 338 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:38,200 recovery? Grams and the. 339 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,440 So 2 1/2 doses. Of the 60 mils. 340 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:46,760 Of the so so 35 would be 35 would be 10 grams. 341 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:54,920 So you would need 7070 plus. Hold on. 342 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,920 I could just take 90 mils and call it good. 5 * 2.5 yeah 90 343 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,360 mils yeah 87.5. Perfect, Perfect. 344 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,800 Yeah, sweet. Yeah, I'll, I'll up my dosage a 345 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,120 little bit. Yeah. 346 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,880 I think from a recovery standpoint, that's what I get 347 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,000 excited about, man. Because I think, you know, I 348 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,600 typically take it before podcast from a mental clarity and 349 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,760 cognition standpoint, but I think, you know, post, it's not 350 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,600 like a stimulus at all. So I don't really take it as a 351 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,560 stimulatory agent necessarily, but I think from a recovery 352 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,440 standpoint post training, but I guess there's like a lag effect 353 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,640 to it. So I could just as easily take 354 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,040 it before workout and then it would still have the recovery 355 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,560 benefits well afterwards. Yeah, exactly. 356 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,160 I would take it like half an hour before workout and then 357 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,680 I'll take it. So I'll work out at like 6 or 55 358 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,360 or 6:00 PM and then I'll take two doses before bed just for 359 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,200 that recovery as well. So feel free to top it up. 360 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,960 And I would normally just take one shot. 361 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,760 So way lower dose when I'm just sedentary and just using it for 362 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,640 cognitive purposes. I feel that one, just 35 mil was 363 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,800 enough for me to be focused and have that mental clarity. 364 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,640 And as you said, it's not a stimulus, so. 365 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,680 When I take it for cognitive purposes, for podcasts for 366 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,520 example, it actually calms my brain down and make me able to 367 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,880 say what I want to say in a coherent manner. 368 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,680 Whereas if I have caffeine it makes me jittery so I'm may 369 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,640 sound more hectic than I would normally. 370 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,880 Totally. So you are killing it from a 371 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,640 marketing standpoint. I mean, you are like I saw 372 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,880 someone of the team, team members of y'all was doing an 373 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,880 interview with like Cameron Haynes and he was shooting 374 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,240 arrows off of the head. I was going to. 375 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:39,920 Oh really? Yeah. 376 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,440 So if you were able to come here for the in person podcast, I was 377 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,920 just going to offer the same thing for you. 378 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,560 You know, I could just shoot one off of your head. 379 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,400 Probably wouldn't be as accurate as campaigns. 380 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,320 So I wouldn't recommend it. But but y'all are appealing to a 381 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,000 pretty broad demographic of potential customers. 382 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,840 Like what are what are y'all really trying to hone in on? 383 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,880 Like what is the the most common use case scenario I guess. 384 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:05,280 The most common use case the way I always say it is any activity 385 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,920 that use your brain. So pretty much anything, right 386 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,000 you can use your brain for work, you use your brain for workout 387 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,920 you use your brain even when you're asleep because you are 388 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,760 consolidating all the memories, all the learnings throughout the 389 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,840 day. So all those instances Keystone 390 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,920 IQ will be able to help you. But right now for the honing in 391 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,240 of the marketing point of view is that we are trying to disrupt 392 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,480 the five hour energy drink, the energy drinks market because a 393 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,440 lot of people are laden with sugars and caffeine. 394 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,680 And the problem with caffeine is that you do build up tolerance. 395 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,680 And as you build up tolerance, you will just want more. 396 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,560 You will just need more. And then not only that, when you 397 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,360 are hooked on it and you come off of it, you get the 398 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:49,440 withdrawal effect that you get the, the headaches, you get the 399 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,200 chronic tension headaches, which is not ideal obviously, because 400 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,760 now you are dependent on it. Ketones, on the other hand, you 401 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,520 can go on and off. You can cycle it off and there 402 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,480 is no side effect and it does not build up tolerance because 403 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,000 even if I've taken it for two years, I can stop tomorrow and 404 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,560 nothing will happen. Will I still get the, the sort 405 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,600 of focus and benefit long term? We haven't got a long term study 406 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,920 to look at that yet, but my my feeling that it is, it does 407 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,360 hold. Like I genuinely feel that my 408 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,560 memory recall has been better in the past two years, even on the 409 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,240 days that I don't take ketones. Yeah. 410 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,640 And there's not really an upper threshold to it where there's 411 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,320 not really a, you know, LD 50 dose to it, so to speak, is 412 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,960 there? So I was asked this question 413 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,800 earlier today actually in another another interview with 414 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,240 anything else, the something is better doesn't mean that more is 415 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,040 better. With metabolism, you want to 416 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,200 always stick to that optimal zone and I would always go for 417 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,120 between 1:00 to 2:00, one point, 2.51 to 2.5 milli molar blood 418 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:04,480 ketone levels. Now when it comes to dosing it 419 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,600 right, I usually two to three doses will get me into that zone 420 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,360 for a good six hours if I'm not working out. 421 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,480 If I'm working out, it'll get me, you know, into that zone for 422 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,240 about two hours. I wouldn't take more than three 423 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,800 at a time. Feel free to top it up because 424 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:27,000 we have had ultra endurance athletes who took 1212 shots. 425 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:32,000 So 12 doses in 22 hours. Because she was, she was running 426 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,280 for that 21st 2 hours. She was running for back water 427 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,000 and she took twelve shots in 22 hours. 428 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,640 And that's fine, but do not take 12 shots in one one seating, 429 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,840 obviously, I think I think that is is not advisable. 430 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,000 If you are, you know, if you find yourself needing to dose 431 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,880 more than three doses, I wouldn't take more than, you 432 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,040 know, three at a time and then wait half an hour, top up 433 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,680 whatever you need and then top up later in the day if you need 434 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,120 it. Yeah, makes sense. 435 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:06,920 Are you using like a, are you checking your blood ketones 436 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:09,680 throughout the day based off your dosage just to kind of see 437 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,520 what it's doing to your, you know, your millimolar range? 438 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,560 I did in the beginning, I did very consistently and that's the 439 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,760 beauty of exogenous ketones because it's dose dependent. 440 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,640 So once you know what dose gets you to what level, you basically 441 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,280 don't need to check it anymore because it will be consistent 442 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,440 every time. It's not affected by what you 443 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,480 eat. It's not affected. 444 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,320 It may be affected by your activity. 445 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,600 So if you're working out, obviously it would drop quicker 446 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,600 because you are using up the ketones, but it is not affected 447 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,560 by a baseline physiological state. 448 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,880 Gotcha, whereas keto diet is is a bit hit or miss. 449 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,600 If you you know have a bit of hidden carbs and what not, they 450 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,920 might kick you off ketosis. Right, right. 451 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,520 So on that note, I think we probably touched on this briefly 452 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,720 when the last time you were on the show, but kind of comparing 453 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,920 use cases for those that are trying to tackle this from like 454 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,520 a dual fuel standpoint and still consume relatively high 455 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,240 carbohydrates versus those that are following a ketogenic diet. 456 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,440 And are, you know, in ketosis by way of what they're consuming. 457 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,080 How How does the exogenous ketones impact those two groups 458 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,040 differently? I think for a lot of people who 459 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,080 have been on ketosis who who have been on keto diet already, 460 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,560 they find exogenous ketones to be useful to bridge into the 461 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,000 keto diet whenever they're out. So it gets them into the keto, 462 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,880 into ketosis much faster. And then when the exogenous 463 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,320 ketones wear off, they already ready to burn their own ketones 464 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,200 because it does lower black glucose as well. 465 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,160 So if they have a high glucose meal, they know their sure their 466 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,160 basal metabolic rate or their basal physiological state is not 467 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,720 in ketosis. Then they take a shot, gets into 468 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,840 ketosis and then a few hours passes by, their blood glucose 469 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,360 is already dropped and then they go back into ketosis. 470 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:58,480 For people who are not on ketogenic diet, they find the 471 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,480 the they find the advantage is the fact that they don't have to 472 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,040 go on a certain diet to have that benefit as well. 473 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,640 So they still experience the cognitive clarity, the focus, as 474 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,200 well as the glycogen sparring effect if they're doing 475 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,680 exercise. Yeah. 476 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,520 Have there been any studies done or maybe just even an adult 477 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,760 experience of people that are diabetic like type 1 diabetics 478 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,640 using ketone IQ? Like what what is happening 479 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,680 there? I mean, it's obviously dropping 480 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,160 the glucose some, but like would they be able to feasibly reduce 481 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,880 their insulin requirements? So not type 1. 482 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,880 So I I believe the the study was on type 2 diabetic and that was 483 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,360 done by University of British Columbia Dr. Jonathan Little. 484 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,480 So he has looked into the glucose lowering effect of 485 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,080 ketones in obese patients, in healthy patients, in diabetic 486 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,120 patients. And what they have seen is that 487 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:56,120 after food and then take ketones, their blood level drops 488 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:02,520 up to like 50 points in the in the US unit and that is 489 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,320 significant. So type 1, I don't know what 490 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,480 sort of difference that would make for the diabetic. 491 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,440 For the type 2 diabetic study, they didn't see any change in 492 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,320 insulin. Now mind you, that is also a 493 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,560 very short study. I believe right now they're 494 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,560 running a three month study to look at the chronic effects 495 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,520 because as we know, like our bodies will take time to adapt 496 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,960 to that, right? Even though our blood glucose 497 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,760 spikes and drops and highs and lows at all times depending on 498 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,800 what we eat and what we do. But when it comes to insulin 499 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,320 resistance, insulin sensitivity, that takes time for our body to 500 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:47,720 readjust and recover. So I'll hope that because these 501 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,800 people are not having as much glucose spikes throughout the 502 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,120 day for three months that we are going to see some form of 503 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:59,880 reduction in insulin. And then that also shows the 504 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,160 increase in insulin sensitivity in muscle cells. 505 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,320 I think that will be the ideal outcome of a study that I would 506 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:10,000 I would definitely be rooting for. 507 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,880 Yeah, I'm, this is super interesting. 508 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,840 I've got an employee that's type 1 diabetic and he's recently 509 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,600 I've, I've recently convinced him to switch over to a 510 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,960 ketogenic diet. So he's been doing that for 511 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,080 about two weeks now, but at the same time, his pharmacy put him 512 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,480 on a different insulin. So just a ton of variables. 513 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,960 But I was having him use some of the exogenous ketones post 514 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,840 perendial after his lunch meal and he noticed that it didn't 515 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,520 have near the spike that it was having previously. 516 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,640 So I'm kind of curious to see how all that plays out through 517 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,400 some more manipulation. But I think there could 518 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,880 definitely be a use case scenario there. 519 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,600 That is exactly what they experienced in in the study 520 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,120 there, there, there was no spike and in fact it just dropped. 521 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,200 However, you have to be a bit careful because of the drop in 522 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,040 in blood glucose. For type one, they are unable to 523 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,760 produce insulin. So that's a very different case 524 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,960 to type 2 where you're trying to reduce insulin because they 525 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,640 already have high insulin and you want to increase the insulin 526 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,120 sensitivity in the muscles. Whereas for type one, they 527 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,680 already do not have insulin to begin with. 528 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,680 So if there's any, you know, sharp drop in in black glucose, 529 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,120 there is no way to to regulate it internally unless you just 530 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,080 take in more glucose externally. Yeah. 531 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,240 And I don't think, I mean, it didn't drop his drastically, but 532 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,520 if he's able to just get that dialed in so that his insulin 533 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,960 requirements are at least somewhat mitigated, so he's not 534 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,680 having as much of it, I think that would be a huge win as as 535 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,280 well. I mean, obviously with the Type 536 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,040 1, they're probably still going to have to take some exotic 537 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,840 insulin in some form or fashion. But like just reducing that 538 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,640 dosage I think would make a meaningful difference long term. 539 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,080 Yeah, especially with healthcare these days are so expensive, you 540 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,400 know, like it's, it's no kidding. 541 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,400 Like a lot of people are suffering because they don't get 542 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,040 their insulin dosing and and people can die from it, right? 543 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,200 And you know who you should follow? 544 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,440 Who is type 1 diabetic and a scientist? 545 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,200 Doctor Andrew Koenig, he's a good friend, brilliant 546 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,760 scientist. He always talks, he's passionate 547 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:13,720 about type 1 diabetic and you know, different ways to, to live 548 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,160 healthily and, and he's jacked and he, he also uses keto diet. 549 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,360 So follow him and and he, you know, I'm happy to introduce him 550 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,760 to you as well if if you want to learn more about the type 1 551 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,960 diabetic and ketogenic diet. Yeah, I've had him. 552 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,400 I don't think I've had him on the podcast. 553 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,760 I've talked with him, I think online or somebody was telling 554 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,200 me about him. I follow him, I'm pretty sure. 555 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,800 But yeah, I'd love to keep him on the show for sure. 556 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,040 Yeah, yeah. So. 557 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:41,760 So what about the relationship with the 13 Butane Diol and I 558 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,040 guess alcohol? I mean, it's, it's a, it's not 559 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,760 an ethanol, but it has similar properties to like alcohol in a, 560 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,680 in a sense, right? So, so this is this is a topic 561 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,520 that was brought up a lot when we first launched, right? 562 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,200 Our competitors would say, oh, this is alcohol, like this is 563 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,360 unhealthy. But then over time, we now see 564 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,000 that it is being metabolized very differently than alcohol 565 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,440 and it does not have the same effect as alcohol. 566 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,320 And in fact, a lot of our Olympics athletes are using 567 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,240 ketone IQ for performance. And if it does exit the same 568 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,720 effects of alcohol, there is no way they're going to jeopardize 569 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,600 their entire career using ketone IQ. 570 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,720 So I think this goes back to what I said earlier, the just 571 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,560 because something is good doesn't mean that you need to 572 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,960 take more of it. So that's where people overdose 573 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,560 and get too much at one time and you may get that oozy feeling, 574 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:41,400 but even then you don't really necessarily replicate the entire 575 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,160 effect of ethanol on your system, so. 576 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,200 Yeah. I mean, just the fact that this 577 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,760 has been shown to be a vasodilator, whereas alcohol as 578 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,240 a vasoconstrictor like that alone from a performance 579 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,960 standpoint, shows that they're pretty different in how they 580 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,560 respond to the body. Exactly, exactly. 581 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,520 Would you would you pop on a breathalyzer test if you're 582 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,920 pulled over after Downing a whole bunch of the ketone I? 583 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,640 Don't think so. I don't think that would that 584 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,000 would yeah, it'll be interesting. 585 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,120 You you should try it just. Try it. 586 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,440 Like just speed around a little bit and now the. 587 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,520 Ketone. I just buy a breathalyzer and 588 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,120 then have a bunch of ketone and then breathe into it and see 589 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,560 what happens. There you go. 590 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,960 I'm gonna have to do that test for sure. 591 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,920 What's the next study in the pipeline? 592 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,240 And so you're wrapping up that one now what's what's next in 593 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,480 the queue? The next in the queue, we are 594 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,600 actually applying for quite a few grants and a few grants are 595 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,120 in review at the moment, one of which is with NIH and 596 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,760 collaborating with Johns Hopkins University. 597 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,160 Looking at sleep apnea, so obstructive sleep apnea where 598 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,040 your Airways are blocked in one way or another during sleep and 599 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,200 because of that, your body is getting less oxygen. 600 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,680 And again, we're coming back to the oxygen. 601 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,320 It seems like ketone does improve oxygenation in a lot of 602 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,520 ways. So this is when you're sleeping 603 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,800 and you have decreased oxygen delivered to your body and AS as 604 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,000 time passes you are increasing your risk of cardiovascular 605 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,920 disease, obesity and even mortality. 606 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,880 So that is obstructive sleep apnea and a lot of people, I 607 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,600 believe up to 1 billion people are affected by it over in the 608 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,200 world. Before I misspeak, let me let me 609 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,200 double check that that number. It sounds right, but yeah, I 610 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:26,800 don't want to misquote you. Yeah, 1 billion people. 611 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:31,040 Yeah, 1 billion people. So essentially one in eight are 612 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,800 affected by obstructive sleep apnea in the world. 613 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,160 So it's more common than people think. 614 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,920 And most people who have sleep apnea, they also snore. 615 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,120 However, if you do snore, you don't necessarily have sleep 616 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,200 apnea. But if you have sleep apnea, 617 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,640 most probably you will snore. And we are running the study 618 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,760 with Doctor Jonathan June looking at using ketone IQ as a 619 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,760 way to increase their oxygen saturation and increase their 620 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,840 sensitivity to carbon dioxide so that they can the body can 621 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,200 adjust so to to improve their symptoms. 622 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,400 So previously they published a paper using just ketogenic diet. 623 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,040 And then they were curious whether it is whether if it is 624 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,800 the diet itself or is it the ketones. 625 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,639 And that's why they decided to work with us to really isolate 626 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,360 the diet versus just beating diet or beta hydroxybutyrate to 627 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,360 look at the effect of that on on sleep apnea. 628 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,440 So fingers crossed. Interesting, interesting. 629 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,960 I was at a conference, I guess earlier last year and I forget 630 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,080 the, I forget the speaker, but he was talking about sleep, 631 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,360 improving sleep quality and how a simple technique people can do 632 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,159 is just simply open their bedroom doors or a window as 633 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,080 they sleep. Because if everything's enclosed 634 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,840 in your bedroom and you're just constantly exhaling through the 635 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,199 night, the carbon dioxide builds up and that massively down 636 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,480 regulates overall sleep quality. So if you open that up, get 637 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,639 better oxygen, and you pair that with, you know, the exogenous 638 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,720 ketones to improve oxygenation all the more, That makes total 639 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,120 sense to me. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 640 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,960 And then another interesting study that is also revolving 641 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,120 around oxygen is a collaboration with Duke University heart 642 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,520 failure and we are running a, an 8 week, sorry, we are running an 643 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,480 8 week study putting about 20 heart failure patients on ketone 644 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,600 IQ. And this is also very similar to 645 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,600 a study we having in Denmark with Arhurst University. 646 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,480 That study is shorter, it's 30 days, but we are running it on 647 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,880 250 heart failure patients. So that is already ongoing. 648 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,480 And what we have seen so far. And this Denmark group even 649 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,200 published a paper on the 24th of December last year, just 650 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,400 Christmas Eve looking at ketone IQ, just one dose in heart 651 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,440 failure patients. They managed to improve the 652 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,040 cardiac output, the stroke volume and the ejection 653 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,920 fraction, all of which are really important clinical 654 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,920 outcomes that improve their survivability of these patients. 655 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:01,440 Interesting. So think about what we talked 656 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,800 about, fossil dilation, improve oxygen delivery and now we're 657 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,040 talking about heart failure patients who essentially they 658 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,640 have they may or may not have had a heart attack before. 659 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,760 They have some form of dysfunction that stops the heart 660 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,920 from functioning properly. Either it's, you know, reduce 661 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,240 blood flow, reduce or some cardiomyocytes being damaged 662 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,080 during a heart attack. But now with ketones, you have a 663 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,800 more efficient feel, you have vasodilation, increase blood 664 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,040 flow, increase oxygen, increase delivery of substrates and 665 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,160 repair materials and they are improving. 666 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,360 Interesting. This may be just wishful 667 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,520 thinking on my part, but are there any things in the works 668 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,840 for studies around patients with Alzheimer's and dementia as far 669 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,200 as exogenous ketones is concerned? 670 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,560 Yes, I do believe there has been going around going going on for 671 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,200 a while now. I believe, like when I first 672 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,320 joined HVM and in 2019, there were already a study funded by 673 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:02,600 the NIH using exogenous ketones on Alzheimer's and dementia. 674 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,040 We currently don't have anything specifically or we have a grant 675 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,680 with the Naval Health Research Center looking at traumatic 676 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,640 brain injury, which also increases your risk of 677 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,200 developing Alzheimer's and neurodegenerative diseases later 678 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,240 on in life, but specifically Alzheimer's. 679 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,800 Not yet. I am going to, I'm going to 680 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,560 Pittsburgh, PA to speak with a group that is specialized in 681 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:33,360 neuroscience and University of Pittsburgh and they are 682 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,120 interested in collaborating. So potentially we're looking at 683 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,800 some form of brain research going on there and applying for 684 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,840 grants, which will sort of support more studies around 685 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,880 neurodegenerative diseases. Because I feel like, I mean, 686 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,960 this hits home for me and I'm sure many others. 687 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,480 I mean, I've got grandparents that are starting to show signs 688 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,240 of Alzheimer's dementia. And it's like, I know they would 689 00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:00,280 benefit immensely from just adopting a ketogenic diet, 690 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,360 removing the excessive sugar and lack of proteins, quality fats 691 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,120 in their food. But like getting people that are 692 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,680 in their elder years to adopt A totally different lifestyle is 693 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,840 like nearly impossible, it seems. 694 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,480 Whereas if they could just simply consume an exogenous 695 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,480 ketone, that could bridge that gap a bit easier for them, you 696 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,720 know, because ketones can cross the blood brain barrier, they 697 00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:23,200 can provide that energy for, you know, neural tissue. 698 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,960 I feel like that would be a very easy win for them. 699 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,120 Low hanging fruit. So that those those studies 700 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,360 really interest me for sure. Yeah, But for sure, absolutely. 701 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,680 And I think there is also the challenge of like, sticking to a 702 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,520 keto diet, right? So if you can pair that with a 703 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,120 intermittent keto diet with exogenous ketones, that gives 704 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,600 them a little bit of flexibility because, you know, I have the 705 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,120 same problems. Like my mom shows some signs and 706 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,680 she's only 70. And I'm like please take your 707 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,680 ketones because it does work. Yeah, yeah, 100% man. 708 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,840 What about you personally? What, what, what gets you 709 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,480 excited outside of the the studies of which you have 710 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,920 multiple that you're working on? Yeah, I've got multiple and 711 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:12,200 we've got even cancer studies actually that is very different 712 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,280 mechanistically to what we've talked about in terms of like 713 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,320 the oxygen, oxygen delivery and all that. 714 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,000 They are very different mechanism of actions which 715 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,600 effects specific cancers. So with Upenn, we're looking at 716 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,000 colorectal cancer and then with Stanford we're looking at 717 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,840 lymphoma and leukemia. So that's that's another 718 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:34,960 collaboration that we're working on. 719 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,120 But for me personally, I've been going through my own 720 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:46,080 transformation in the past year. In 2023, I was weighing 185 lbs. 721 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,600 Now I'm around 165 lbs, so 20 lbs. 722 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,200 But I also measured my muscle mass throughout the year. 723 00:39:53,560 --> 00:40:00,880 I lost about 26 lbs of fat and I gained a little bit of muscle, 724 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,080 which I was, you know what, I I'll take that rather than 725 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,080 losing any muscle, even if it's 1 LB, I'm fine with that 726 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:12,520 because, because having been on a calorie deficit for most of 727 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,040 the time in the past year, because I'm doing carb cycling 728 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:21,840 and managing to lose all that body fat and maintain muscle, 729 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,040 I'll take that as a win anytime. Doctor Lance getting jacked, 730 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,560 man. Well, the jacked part is, is is 731 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,720 hopefully later. So I'm training with Jay 732 00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:32,960 Ferrugi. I don't know if you know him. 733 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:33,480 Yeah. Yeah. 734 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:36,600 Yeah, yeah. So I'm talking with Jay and he's 735 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,360 like, you didn't no, we need to get you like lean enough before 736 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,320 we we do a reverse diet and get you jacked. 737 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,800 I was like, so I'm still waiting for the Jack part, but I'm 738 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,880 definitely, you know, lean enough, well, leaner than I was 739 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,160 and I I never thought I could because I was, I'm hitting forty 740 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,720 this year, right. So I'm like, great, like, you 741 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:57,600 know, where, where does my metabolism stand? 742 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,640 And one good thing about me growing up unhealthily, so I 743 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,000 grew up overweight. One of the good thing is that I 744 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,600 never knew what peak was. Whereas a lot of people who 745 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,800 peaked in high school and they were like the football jock or 746 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,120 like the the sportsman, they knew what it feels like to be at 747 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,000 that peak. And it they feel like, Oh, I'm 748 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,440 not as I used to be. Whereas for me now I'm fitter 749 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,800 than I've ever been. So it feels good because I'm 750 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,840 like discovering new heights rather than trying to get to my 751 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,320 past height. Yeah, no, that's awesome, man. 752 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,560 I feel like so many people relive their glory days from 753 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,840 high school and college, and it's just like, to me, that's 754 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,200 just depressing way to live. Like, if I'm past that time, 755 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,280 that chapter in my life, I just constantly, you know, reminisce 756 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,800 on that as that being my my prime. 757 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,920 Like, that's sad. Whereas now, like I'd 758 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,240 legitimately feel and look and perform better with every year 759 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:51,720 that passes. I mean this is the freaking 760 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,360 found the youth right here man. Yeah, absolutely. 761 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,280 You just you just said it perfectly. 762 00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,000 It literally you create your own peak whenever you want. 763 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,760 Yeah, 100%. So with you dieting down, losing 764 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,160 all that fat, I'm assuming you're, you know, obviously 765 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,280 dropping your intake, eating a little bit of a deficit, Did you 766 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,960 notice that the exhaust ketones had much of an effect from a 767 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,600 satiety standpoint? Yes, absolutely. 768 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,000 Especially at night. So I'll have my dinner around 8 769 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,520 or 9, which is quite late already, but I sleep around like 770 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,080 midnight and by that time I'm I'm already hungry. 771 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,480 So because I use ketones for my sleep recovery, not necessarily 772 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,400 from a appetite suppression standpoint, but it works very 773 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,360 well complementary to the appetite suppression standpoint, 774 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,240 because at that point I'm already hungry and I'm going to 775 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,840 take ketones anyway. So that stopped me being hungry 776 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,800 and it improved my sleep, my sleep quality. 777 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,440 So how soon after your dinner meal at 8 or 9 would you have 778 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,560 the exogenous ketones? I would have it right before 779 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,440 bed. OK, so still have it right 780 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,280 before bed. Interesting. 781 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,400 Yeah. So I don't. 782 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,560 Have it. I don't have it with my dinner. 783 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,240 I don't have it like post exercise, even though the study 784 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,080 that showed improvement in recovery, they have it half an 785 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,560 hour post exercise and half an hour before bed. 786 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,640 I only do the before bed part because usually like you said, 787 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,760 you'll have a delayed effect. So I have it before my workout. 788 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,520 So I'll still have ketones in my in my body. 789 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,240 And because I work out in the evening, the window is much 790 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:23,720 smaller anyway so I don't need to top up that often. 791 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,600 So just I'm just going to do before workout at 5 or 6 and 792 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,800 then I'll do it before bed at 12. 793 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,160 Interesting, do you fall asleep pretty quickly or just working 794 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,760 on the evening kind of hinder? Then Nope, I have no problem 795 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,720 falling asleep. I, I love my sleep and, and I 796 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:42,560 think it's a lot to do with my life, you know, living in all 797 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,120 these different places and travelling a lot. 798 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,480 So I've trained my body to be able to sleep in any condition, 799 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,360 including like on flights and on buses. 800 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,600 Heck, I've, I've slept in a club before when I was in my 801 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,280 undergrad. I was just tired. 802 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,320 I I, I took a check leaning against the wall and literally 803 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,520 fell asleep for half an hour and then the bouncer came and woke 804 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:02,560 me up, thought I was on something. 805 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:03,920 I was like, no, I was just asleep. 806 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,480 Yeah, it's not a bad thing, man. Being able to sleep at the ready 807 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,320 is is probably a superpower honestly. 808 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,800 Yeah, I know. Well that's so man, kudos to you 809 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,400 for dropping the body fat. And when? 810 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,920 When do you start reverse dieting and actually focus on 811 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,040 the muscle building then? Where? 812 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,040 Well, according to Jay, when my my, my fat percentage gets a 813 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,360 little bit lower than than I am now. 814 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,320 So anytime soon, but because I went back to Malaysia for two 815 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,640 weeks and a half and during the Lunar New Year end of February, 816 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:39,560 early February, so that travel really screwed me over because 817 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,720 my sleeping, my nutrition and everything was not consistent. 818 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,320 So I came back and I probably gained some more fat. 819 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,440 So now I have to like get back to consistent. 820 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,400 But then I'm going on a podcast tour, you know, So heck, you 821 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,840 know, it's that's the challenge of us. 822 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,800 Who wants to be consistent? You know, you always end up 823 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,120 doing something that that forces you to not be consistent. 824 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,880 Yeah, it's, it's tough, man. I've got a lot of clients that 825 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,600 are, you know, busy traveling or whatever the case may be. 826 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,960 But it's all just a matter of like what you want to 827 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,440 prioritize. I mean, you can make it work, 828 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,440 nutritionally speaking, no matter where you're at. 829 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,760 So you can find the gym, Definitely. 830 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,720 It's harder when you're traveling, but you can. 831 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,360 I think the gym the gym part is the easiest because especially 832 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,320 if you're traveling in the US like I can always find a gym and 833 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:25,600 and have a guest pass and whatever. 834 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,160 I think the and even nutrition could be easy. 835 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:31,920 I could rent an Airbnb where I can actually cook so that way I 836 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,320 can measure and count my my macros. 837 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,160 The hardest part for me would be the sleep and sleep effects my 838 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:45,320 weight so much much more than nutrition and my workout because 839 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,480 I realized on days that I do not sleep well it it either goes up 840 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,120 or stays the same even at a calorie deficit. 841 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,320 Either I'm bloated with water retention or whatever. 842 00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:00,320 I don't know, but it's certainly affect my weight loss 843 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,280 significantly, much more than my workout and my nutrition. 844 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:06,200 Yeah, I mean, so much of, you know, lack of sleep is just 845 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,160 going to be an increase of, you know, stress and cortisol, and 846 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,040 that's obviously going to increase fluid retention as 847 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,160 well. I mean, if I get a good night's 848 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,120 sleep, I'll literally wake up two or three pounds lighter with 849 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,680 nothing else changing to my nutrition. 850 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,600 Yeah. So 100%, ma'am, we'll shoot next 851 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,080 time we do a podcast. You'll definitely have to come 852 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:24,640 here in person. We'll get a lift in. 853 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,200 Yeah, 100% like I would love to, you know, pick your brains on on 854 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,200 like different techniques and different routines, like what 855 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,080 sort of cycles, you know, of how you you do your, your, your 856 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,000 lifting days and what are the benefits of like, you know, 857 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,400 upper body, lower body versus push pull leg versus, you know, 858 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,600 bro split or whatever, you know, all that stuff. 859 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,400 Yeah, 100% man, We'll do that for sure. 860 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,080 I'm getting some. Actually just ordered some new 861 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,120 equipment from my gym this morning so it's just getting all 862 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,800 the better getting it ready for you when you come. 863 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,400 Sounds like I if I go there, I have to be there at least for 864 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,560 two days. Yeah, for sure, for sure. 865 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:01,440 Awesome, brother. Well, Doctor Ladd, I appreciate 866 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,360 it. Pleasure as always. 867 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,960 Where do people go to find out more about you? 868 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:05,440 The studies. We'll put the studies in the 869 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,440 show notes, but the website, all that good stuff. 870 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,320 Yeah. So if you go to ketone.com, 871 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,440 that's where you can find everything about ketone on a 872 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:14,920 queue, including the science page. 873 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:20,440 If you want to follow me at Lat Mansour LATTMANSOR on all social 874 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,000 media. And yeah, if you have any 875 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:28,080 questions, DM me, e-mail me lat@ketone.com and we'll speak. 876 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:29,800 Awesome. Appreciate it, brother. 877 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,480 Pleasure as always, Jim. Thank you. 878 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:32,280 Take care.