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Well, hello, ladies and gents 
Robert Sykes, ketose, a.com to 

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Dev, get special guest, Amy 
Burger on the line. 

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I've known Ami for quite some 
time. 

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I think I saw her speak for the 
first time at a, at a conference

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in 2017. 
I followed her work since then, 

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and I really just appreciate her
no-nonsense approach to the 

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ketogenic lifestyle, proper 
health and nutrition, a 

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well-formulated diets. 
We dive into a lot of the 

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controversial topics as of late,
such as seed, oils, vegetable 

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oils, vegetables. 
In general, whether it's got a 

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bunch of anti-nutrients fight. 
So chemicals, that are going to 

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kill you. 
We talk about artificial 

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sweeteners, we talk about 
high-fat versus high protein. 

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We talked about all kinds of 
things, hormonal Health, all 

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kinds of topics that I think 
people would benefit from 

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hearing, a lot of which are 
controversial, a lot of which 

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are likely overblown and not as 
significant as people make them 

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out to be. 
I thoroughly enjoyed the 

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conversation. 
I've got a lot of respect for 

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Amy, she knows her stuff. 
She's been in the space for a 

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long time. 
I've got no doubt that you will 

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take something from this 
conversation. 

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So without further Ado, sit 
back, relax and enjoy the 

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podcast with Amy. 
Burger. 

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And we are live. 
Amy, how are you? 

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I'm good. 
How are you doing? 

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I'm doing wonderful. 
Well, I'm excited to chat with 

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you because we've met we met in 
person way back when I think in 

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like the 2017 low-carb cruise. 
And then we met again here 

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recently at the keto palooza, I 
believe, and I followed you work

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throughout that whole time and I
feel like you have very good 

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handle on just staying true. 
True to what you believe to be 

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true with regarding nutrition. 
But not letting yourself devolve

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into the Nuance in the minutiae 
of just all the chaos that's out

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there all the dogmatic thinking,
and just siloed thinking that 

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people seem to have come up 
whenever nutritional Norms are 

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questioned. 
So I'm excited to just chat with

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you about a variety of topics 
that included. 

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Thank you. 
Sounds good. 

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Let's dive into some of your 
whole like YouTube channel is 

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key to without the crazy 
correct. 

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Yes. 
What's the motivation behind 

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that? 
I feel like there's a lot of 

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crazy. 
And I want people talk about 

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Quito. 
Yeah, I mean I guess the main 

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motivation for it is I've been 
eating a very low carb, 

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ketogenic diet for a long time 
like over 15 years now. 

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And when I got started in this 
social media almost didn't 

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exist, like the internet was 
kind of the baby internet. 

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There was no Reddit. 
There was no Twitter. 

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There was no YouTube and so 
there was a lot less 

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information. 
About low-carbon keto diets out 

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there, but there was also a lot 
less misinformation and there 

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was much less confusion and 
conflicting information. 

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And I've said to so many people,
I don't envy anyone whose brand 

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new to this now. 
Like, like, if I had to start 

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brand-new today, I don't even 
know who I would trust or what I

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would believe. 
So I try to cut through a lot of

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the extraneous, and unnecessary 
details, and the fear-mongering 

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and sensational. 
And just kind of give people a 

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really basic simple way to 
start. 

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And yeah, maybe over time 
everybody has to personalize a 

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little bit and get into the 
weeds and the details. 

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But to start out like like if 
you're going to do that from day

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one, you're never going to get 
anywhere because you're going to

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be so overwhelmed you're just 
going to quit. 

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Yeah, I totally agree. 
I've been doing the diet for 

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eight years now strictly and I 
feel like when I started what 

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you know, was not near as long 
ago as you were But when I 

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started there wasn't really any 
books or podcast or recipes, I 

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mean, it was not really a keto 
presence online. 

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There were certainly no keto 
products. 

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There was just no noise out 
there and I feel like because of

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that I was able to just kind of 
start with a pretty pristine, 

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you know, understanding of it 
all and I haven't really 

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deviated to Too Much from what I
learned back then because it's 

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never really failed to me. 
So now kind of fast forward to 

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today. 
And you see all this, all this 

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all this minutiae, all this, all
this fear. 

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Goering and like people that are
just starting, like, I don't, I 

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would have no idea. 
Like you said, where they would 

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turn, where they would look for 
a credible source of 

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information. 
What are some of the big topics 

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that really a guess get under 
your skin right now that have 

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really gained traction, but you 
just feel like it's totally 

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majoring in the minors. 
Oh boy, it's almost hard to pick

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one. 
We can go well over Mineo Ming 

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pick multiple. 
Yeah, I know. 

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That's great. 
I I guess. 

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It. 
Wow, it really is hard to even 

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pick a first one to start with. 
I think people just need. 

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Okay. 
I guess even the word keto or 

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ketogenic is problematic because
then people think that the goal 

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is to have a certain level of 
ketones, or the goal is to be in

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ketosis all the time or they and
I your world is a little 

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different with the bodybuilding 
and training and coaching. 

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But if my world is mostly weight
loss, Type 2 diabetes, you know,

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PCOS, all that, and for those 
people, they don't have to have 

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any super high amount of fat, 
you know, they don't have to be 

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chasing these like 80% fat 
macros and they don't, they 

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don't have to worry about oh, I 
heard protein spikes insulin or 

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protein turns into sugar. 
And so when they put the 

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emphasis on keto or even being 
in ketosis, that takes away from

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the single most important thing,
that that Makes this diet what 

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it is, which is the really low 
carbohydrate intake. 

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You know, it's almost like the 
message of actually keeping the 

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carbs really low gets lost 
because people are so worried 

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about their ketones or just even
if the number one. 

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Most important thing is keeping 
the carbs low because that is 

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what induces the changes we 
want. 

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That's what keeps the blood 
sugar, low normal. 

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That's what keeps insulin low 
normal, that's what keeps the 

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inflammation away. 
Then that's what we need to 

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focus on. 
We don't really need to worry so

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much that there may be, you 
know, some compound in in the 

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two sprigs of broccoli, that I'm
eating, or, you know, it just 

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people people get wrapped up in 
these ant, the fears about 

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anti-nutrients and the gut biome
and it's like. 

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You're so like you said that 
they're majoring in the minors, 

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and they're kind of overlooking,
the most important part of all 

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this. 
Yeah. 

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Completely You feel like the 
protein things been a Hot Topic.

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As of late, like for a while, 
everybody was very fearful of 

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gluconeogenesis. 
There was this, you know, talk 

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of it turning into black brown 
or brown sugar, chocolate cake. 

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Whatever it was that they were 
saying too much protein is going

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to result in then, which 
certainly isn't the truth and I 

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feel like, at least my 
perspective is that as of late 

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it's like the pendulum has swung
so far in the opposite direction

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in which, you know, there's been
this massive push for protein 

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which I think is great but 
almost at the expense of where 

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people are now. 
A fearful of dietary fats but 

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it's like that people can't 
realize that there's just a 

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healthy Middle Ground there. 
Oh, I could not agree more. 

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I I have a huge amount of 
respect for the people that are 

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spearheading this sort of higher
protein angle, but yeah, it's I 

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think the unfortunate thing is, 
there's a lot of black and white

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thinking out there. 
Like people don't appreciate 

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nuance and the gray area in 
between just because too much 

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fat might be bad, doesn't mean, 
we want to just go on a low fat 

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diet, you know? 
And and, and just in Increasing 

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protein and decreasing fat 
doesn't mean eating only egg 

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whites and only whey protein and
canned tuna in water. 

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So people people just kind of 
misunderstand. 

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I think what some of the experts
are saying to just because 

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someone says, hey, maybe eat a 
little more protein and a little

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less fat which is completely 
reasonable in. 

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Certain cases, what people here 
unfortunately is, oh, I need to 

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like gorge on protein, eat all 
the protein I can and as little 

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fat as possible which of course 
is not what anyone. 

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Is ever saying yeah, yeah, it's 
people. 

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People have a tendency to just 
go to the extreme ends for 

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whatever reason I feel like they
just assume that if a little is 

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good, a lot better in some 
situations. 

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That's absolutely true. 
But in regards to nutrition 

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certainly when it comes to fat 
and protein I would argue that's

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definitely not the case. 
If like there could be an 

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argument there with the 
carbohydrates but operating on 

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the extremes of the guards 
defend protein, like neither is 

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optimal if you have optimal. 
I mean, either is optimal if you

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are going so far to the extreme 
that your protein is causing an 

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expensive, dietary fat or vice 
versa. 

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Totally agree. 
Yep, when it comes to you 

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mentioned the the few sprigs of 
broccoli. 

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I feel like as of late, the 
carnivore Community has 

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certainly gained momentum to the
extent where people are fearful 

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of vegetation and take this 
fear-mongering around the 

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anti-nutrients, the basically 
just all the phytochemicals 

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within plants that they have 
created an evolved from so they 

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can not be eaten. 
I guess, do you think there's 

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much weight in that like is that
just a fallacy argument there? 

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Reason to really lean into that 
or is it just people again, 

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majoring in the minors, it's a 
little bit of both, I think so, 

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I did a video a while, back on 
anti-nutrients that. 

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Maybe we could include the link 
to because it's like, yes, 

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certain plants do actually 
contain compounds that cut. 

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The can be problematic, but most
people just eating a small 

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portion of this as a side 
vegetable on their plate, along 

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with the fatty meat or something
are never going. 

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To run into problems with this. 
A lot of the people that got 

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into problems with whether it's 
oxalates or go Trojans or 

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phytates or what have you are. 
Very often for more vegetarians 

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or vegans, who were eating huge 
quantities of this stuff all the

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time like having a giant spinach
smoothie for breakfast every 

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morning. 
Right. 

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Having almond flour. 
Bread. 

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Everyday. 6 pieces. 
So having it the poison is in 

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the dose, right? 
Because too much water can kill.

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You too much oxygen can kill you
but none of us is going to stop 

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drinking water and breathing are
so um I don't I don't want to 

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like dismiss the concerns that 
people have though. 

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If you know, if somebody does 
react to even a small amount of 

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this stuff then yeah, avoid it. 
I have actually recommended the 

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carnivore diet to some people 
but I think they are blowing it 

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out of proportion. 
They're not wrong to be talking 

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about it, but they're blowing it
out of proportion and they're 

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making everybody terrified. 
I'd of foods that healthy robust

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long-lived people have been 
eating for thousands of years. 

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Yeah, I think that puts it very 
eloquently like I do not eat a 

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ton of vegetation and it makes 
it a very small percentage of my

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daily caloric allotment. 
But when I do like, when I'm 

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craving some brussels sprouts or
something sauteed in, you know, 

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butter and olive oil, I don't 
feel guilty about it like it's 

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not like this fearmongering in 
my brain, I don't notice the 

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performance benefit from it per 
se. 

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I don't notice any inherent, you
know, Edge from a competitive 

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bodybuilding standpoint, but 
every once in a while just 

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freaking like the taste of some 
broccoli or some brussels 

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sprouts, so I'll eat them 
without feeling bad, about it 

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same same. 
But yeah, I think you're 

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absolutely right that the people
that do seem to have this, you 

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know, they'll point to instances
in which they or other people 

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have had, you know, issues with 
the oxalates. 

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And I feel like like you said, a
lot of those people have been 

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following a vegan or vegetarian 
diet for years, on end prior to 

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this. 
And they're basically just Oxley

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dumping though. 
So that's a pretty small 

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percentage of population. 
Yeah, I think it's pretty small 

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and I'm not dismissing the 
possibility that somebody might 

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react to smaller and smaller 
amounts of this stuff. 

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But that I guess people just 
need to realize that just 

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because somebody else reacts to 
something. 

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You know, there are, I could eat
half a jar of peanut butter and 

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go about my day and meanwhile, 
there's some little kid who 

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smells a peanut and goes into 
anaphylactic shock so yeah, just

226
00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:08,400
because one person is super 
sensitive to something doesn't 

227
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,100
mean everybody is and I again I 
can only we everybody in the 

228
00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:17,400
keto world is so into thinking 
about ancestral health and 

229
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,800
evolution and evolutionary 
biology. 

230
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:25,300
And yes, the human, you know, 
Homo sapiens obviously evolved 

231
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:31,000
eating meat eating animal fats 
but we also did eat vegetation 

232
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,600
and I don't know that it was 
always a starvation food like oh

233
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,600
they only would ever eat plants 
if there was no dead animal 

234
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,800
handy. 
And so I think, too. 

235
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,100
To claim that these foods are 
somehow poisonous when healthy 

236
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:46,900
people have been eating them for
for ages is just kind of a 

237
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:49,100
little short-sighted. 
Yeah, I agree. 

238
00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:52,000
What about fruits in which case?
Many of the fruits that were 

239
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,300
familiar? 
With today are just simply a 

240
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,400
bioengineering version of the 
fruits that were present, you 

241
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,900
know, 500 years ago. 
Yeah. 

242
00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:05,600
Fruit is again, fruit is what 
can I say? 

243
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:12,700
I think the poison is in the 
dose, you know, if brute brute 

244
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:15,100
can mess with blood sugar and 
Insulin, right? 

245
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:18,200
Not as not as much as some other
carbohydrates, but some people 

246
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,300
are really sensitive to that. 
And I do think there is a case 

247
00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:25,300
to be made that the fruit we 
have available today is really 

248
00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:28,700
different than fruit was a 
thousand years ago. 10,000 years

249
00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:35,600
ago, So, I think, you know, you 
don't, you can eat plenty of 

250
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,600
carbohydrate without fruit, if, 
you know, or lower lower 

251
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,300
carbohydrate vegetables that 
don't have some of the issues 

252
00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:45,200
that fruit might bring. 
Ya think it's a safe way to put 

253
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,600
it for sure. 
What about artificial 

254
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,700
sweeteners, kind of hitting you 
with all kinds of topics here 

255
00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:52,800
but I feel like these are all 
very hot topics in the keto 

256
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,700
space artificial sweeteners. 
Often times gets a lot of 

257
00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:59,400
Kickback and truth be told when 
I first started Quito There 

258
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,100
wasn't really this push towards 
natural sweeteners. 

259
00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:05,000
I mean, a see, sulfate 
potassium, sucralose like that 

260
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,400
was just what was available. 
So, I was Downing artificial 

261
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,100
sweeteners like they were going 
on the style and I still saw 

262
00:14:10,100 --> 00:14:12,200
tremendous success with the 
ketogenic diet. 

263
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,300
So I don't feel like it's 
oftentimes as serious as it. 

264
00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:18,800
I mean, I feel like people 
should try to optimize. 

265
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,000
I feel like people are losing 
sleep around whether or not they

266
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,800
had something that contains 
artificial sweeteners in it or 

267
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,100
not. 
We are so on the same page 

268
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,400
people, people are either Gonna 
Love Me Or Hate Me after this. 

269
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,700
I have a pretty contrarian view 
about this stuff again we you 

270
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:36,800
know dr. 
Atkins wrote. 

271
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,200
His first book, 50 years ago, 
1972. 

272
00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:47,500
So you know People have been 
including things like sucralose 

273
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:51,400
saccharin aspartame for decades 
and like you said, getting great

274
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,000
restate, their losing 100 
pounds, they're reversing their 

275
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,500
diabetes. 
So, clearly this stuff is not 

276
00:14:56,500 --> 00:14:59,500
standing in the way of most 
people getting the results they 

277
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:02,100
want. 
And I emphasize the word most, 

278
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,800
because there's always the 
outlier who, you know, finds 

279
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,000
that a certain sweetener does 
raise their blood sugar, or even

280
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,900
if it doesn't raise the blood 
sugar, it just makes them crave 

281
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:13,700
more and more sweet things. 
Hmm. 

282
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:16,200
I think. 
I think we need to people in the

283
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,000
keto World. 
Need to be a little more clear 

284
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,600
about the distinction between 
something like, artificial 

285
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,600
sweeteners versus sugar alcohols
which are different. 

286
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,900
The sugar alcohols like a mouth 
at all, Mannitol Xylitol those 

287
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,000
things. 
Do affect blood sugar and 

288
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,300
Insulin more so than the 
artificial sweeteners like the 

289
00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:36,100
sucralose and the saccharine and
all that. 

290
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,900
So it just I do think there's 
individual responses and you 

291
00:15:40,908 --> 00:15:45,400
know, in an Ideal World we would
Need anything, sweet. 

292
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,400
We would just totally break or 
need for something sweet but if 

293
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,100
and some people do that, right? 
Some people do steak and steak 

294
00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:56,100
only or steak and eggs and 
that's their whole diet. 

295
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:58,800
But there are people who are 
going to want something sweet 

296
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,300
and that doesn't have to stand 
in the way of them getting great

297
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:03,800
results. 
If they want to have a diet 

298
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,300
soda, if they want to put a pack
of Splenda and their coffee and 

299
00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:13,000
even somebody might have the end
goal of getting off that stuff 

300
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,800
completely but maybe use it when
your new use, it kind of short 

301
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,300
term as a transition and 
gradually decrease. 

302
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:24,500
But I just Just, if I have a 
client who is having trouble, 

303
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,600
you know, whether it's with 
weight loss or something else, 

304
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,600
isn't working, artificial 
sweeteners, are not the first 

305
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,700
place. 
I Look to troubleshoot, I don't 

306
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,600
ignore it, but that's not my 
first suspicion usually. 

307
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,700
Yeah. 
I feel like, you know, the 

308
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:38,600
artificial sweeteners like 
Splenda that are not going to 

309
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,700
have near the effect on your 
blood sugar insulin as something

310
00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,500
like pure table. 
Sugar would, those are certainly

311
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,600
a step in the right direction 
from a physiological standpoint.

312
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:50,900
There's a lot of benefit there. 
I feel like from a Because 

313
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,700
standpoint just simply having 
that sweet sensation on your 

314
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:58,000
tongue, oftentimes leads to the 
tendency to over-consume in 

315
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,100
general, the hyper battable 
nature of all these really sweet

316
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:03,100
Foods affect people. 
Just have to concede to 

317
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:07,000
over-consume and I feel like 
there is I don't be curious to 

318
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,300
get your thoughts on this. 
I've had multiple in the podcast

319
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,500
and I've had some people that 
that look towards sweets and 

320
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,800
sugars as being akin to a drug 
addiction. 

321
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,500
And I've had some people that 
think that it is a disservice 

322
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,300
Vez to associate food as being 
an addictive substance in and of

323
00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:25,599
itself. 
Where do you kind of fall on 

324
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:31,900
that Spectrum? 
Um, I think the only people who 

325
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:35,300
think that food addiction isn't 
real or sugar addiction isn't 

326
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:37,800
real or the people that don't 
have a problem eating these 

327
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,800
things, you know? 
Like that's for me to say I 

328
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,800
could say, oh, gambling 
addiction who's addicted to 

329
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:43,900
gambling. 
That's ridiculous. 

330
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,900
Well, just because I don't have 
that personal experience. 

331
00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:50,000
Doesn't mean I can discount the 
real-life experience of other 

332
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,900
people. 
So I do now. 

333
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,300
Do I think it's as difficult to 
quit sugar? 

334
00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:02,500
It is to quit cocaine, probably 
not but I don't know I can't 

335
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:08,600
I've not been a cocaine addict. 
I can't say but I think I think 

336
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,900
we do a disservice to dismiss 
that and to kind of Gaslight 

337
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:17,900
people because you know there 
there are people who will get in

338
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:21,500
their car at midnight and drive 
to the convenience store and 

339
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:23,800
then they'll hide all the 
rappers from their spouse. 

340
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:29,400
Hide the rappers from their kids
and I think I agree with you 

341
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,900
though about the physiological 
and metabolic effects of the 

342
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:35,600
artificial sweeteners or a 
separate. 

343
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,500
Kind of discussion from the 
psychological aspect and keeping

344
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:44,300
that perpetuating that addiction
to the sweet taste, just keeping

345
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:54,100
keeping that need going and it's
that If that leads people back 

346
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:57,000
to the real thing that can kind 
of sabotage them with the 

347
00:18:57,008 --> 00:19:01,100
ketogenic diet. 
But I think most people can do 

348
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,200
the sweeteners. 
Just fine, I'm not a problem, 

349
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,400
but you can get getting back to 
the addiction thing because 

350
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,200
that's more of an important 
issue, I think it is real and I 

351
00:19:10,208 --> 00:19:13,800
think going keto alone, get just
getting off the blood sugar 

352
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,000
roller coaster. 
Getting the so-called worst 

353
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,700
offenders out of your diet or 
some people. 

354
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:20,900
That's enough. 
They stop binging. 

355
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:24,700
They the all the Things go away 
and it's like magic and for 

356
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,700
other people, it's it's still a 
problem. 

357
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:31,900
We can still binge on on steak 
on pork chops and maybe 

358
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:35,100
metabolically speaking. 
That's not certainly not as 

359
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:39,400
damaging but psychologically to 
still be stuffing yourself. 

360
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,200
You know, stuffing yourself like
uncomfortably full at every meal

361
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,900
is still a problem. 
So I just think he do and 

362
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:49,000
there's actually been a little 
bit of published research on 

363
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,300
this. 
The keto is really helpful for a

364
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:54,800
lot of People in that regard. 
But there are still a lot of 

365
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,600
people that struggle. 
Yeah. 

366
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,200
Feel like, you know, when I 
started it I was having all 

367
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,100
kinds of disordered eating 
Tendencies and binging and 

368
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,300
purging. 
And I feel like simply regularly

369
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:06,400
my blood sugar and insulin and 
just, you know, not feeling 

370
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,500
guilty about the foods that I 
was consuming. 

371
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,500
I think that was one of the 
primary drivers that alone was 

372
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:14,500
able to help me break free of 
that downward spiral. 

373
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:17,400
And I feel like from a 
physiological standpoint of 

374
00:20:17,408 --> 00:20:21,700
people are able to you know, not
have near the DraStic highs and 

375
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,500
Was there blood sugar the 
Cravings? 

376
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:26,300
They're they're you know, bounce
of just exhaustion etcetera, 

377
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:27,900
Etc. 
That's certainly going to put 

378
00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:30,600
them in the right direction but 
then it becomes a psychological 

379
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,800
aspect with regard to their 
relationship with just sweet 

380
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,300
things. 
And gentlemen, if that becomes a

381
00:20:34,308 --> 00:20:36,600
catalyst for them to 
over-consume, you kind of have 

382
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,800
to tackle this from a 
psychological standpoint more so

383
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,000
that a physiological standpoint.
But I feel like for the vast 

384
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,200
majority of people if they could
just simply gets all those 

385
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,100
physical markers, metabolic 
markers, more lesson, check that

386
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:48,900
certainly paves the way for them
to just have a better 

387
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:50,700
relationship with food in 
totality. 

388
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,400
I definitely think so. 
Yeah. 

389
00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:56,200
How did you get into it? 
You've been doing this for so 

390
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,700
long. 
Was there like a specific? 

391
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,800
You know condition that you were
trying to cure or break free and

392
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,500
or what was your initial 
motivation? 

393
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,400
Yeah, I was heavier II. 
Did it straight up for weight 

394
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,300
loss? 
I was think I was I first 

395
00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:14,600
discovered the Atkins book when 
I was in college. 

396
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:20,200
And like so many people though I
started and stopped and started 

397
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,200
and stopped like I definitely 
Not do low-carb continuously 

398
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,700
from the moment. 
I discovered it, like, I 

399
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:28,300
definitely had my stops and 
starts. 

400
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:31,400
So if anyone out there has been 
through that, you are so not 

401
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,600
alone. 
That's a very common, but I have

402
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,900
a family history of type 2, 
diabetes, cancer and stroke and 

403
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:42,100
every most of the people in my 
family are heavy but I was at 

404
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:43,500
that age. 
Thank goodness. 

405
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:47,100
I didn't have any health issues.
I was just heavy and I was 

406
00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:50,900
chubby despite, you know, I was 
exercising regularly. 

407
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,600
I was eating what I thought was 
a healthy diet. 

408
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,500
You know, my whole grain cereal 
and my skim milk, and my 

409
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,300
margarine on my whole wheat 
toast, and the whole nine yards.

410
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:07,900
And I just spent so many years 
with really low self-esteem and 

411
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,900
feeling, like I was a failure. 
And, you know, what's wrong with

412
00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:14,900
me and being jealous of friends 
that could eat anything and 

413
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:17,400
still stay thin. 
And so, you know, long story 

414
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,600
short, I found low carb and it 
worked and it I could lose 

415
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,900
weight without starving myself 
without, you know, going hungry.

416
00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:30,600
I didn't have to like now, I'm 
not a competitor. 

417
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,300
So, like, I didn't have to 
measure my food or way any of 

418
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:39,000
that stuff. 
And then I was so fascinated, 

419
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,900
like, wait a minute, I'm doing 
the opposite of what I'm 

420
00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:44,000
supposed to do here. 
I'm eating, more red meat. 

421
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,500
I'm eating butter, like I'm 
losing weight, what's going on 

422
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:48,900
here? 
And I started just doing a 

423
00:22:48,908 --> 00:22:51,000
little bit of research in a 
reading more books, even 

424
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,500
starting to Read some of the, 
the published papers. 

425
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,500
And I, I was in and out of a lot
of jobs that I hated and it 

426
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:02,700
occurred to me one day, like, 
oh, wait a minute, nutritionist 

427
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:04,700
is a career. 
Maybe I could do that and I 

428
00:23:04,708 --> 00:23:07,300
could teach other people about 
this awesome low-carb way of 

429
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,500
eating. 
So I ended up going back to 

430
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:13,600
school to study nutrition and 
you probably feel the same way I

431
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,200
do. 
Now, weight loss is great and 

432
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,200
Aikido is obviously effective 
for that. 

433
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:25,300
But this way of eating is So 
amazing for doing so many other 

434
00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:27,100
things for Health, it really 
truly. 

435
00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:30,900
No other diet does that it's 
like, okay, weight loss is 

436
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:33,600
great, but let's talk about 
literally reversing your 

437
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,400
diabetes, reversing PCOS. 
Reversing non-alcoholic fatty 

438
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,300
liver like basically, I won't 
use the word cure, but you know,

439
00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:44,800
radically improving mental 
health issues. 

440
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,700
So, yeah, that's a really long 
story. 

441
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:51,000
But I came in at personally for 
weight loss and I still, I still

442
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,900
eat this way, lat. 
Largely to maintain my weight 

443
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:56,600
loss but I keep it up now also 
to sort of potentially, prevent 

444
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,700
any of those big metabolic 
problems from developing. 

445
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:01,500
No totally. 
Have you been able to kind of 

446
00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:04,200
nudge, your family members and 
that same direction. 

447
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,200
Nutritionally speaking to help 
out there are not even not even 

448
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,900
a little bit. 
Unfortunately, you know, I 

449
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:16,000
always say they know how to find
me if they want my help. 

450
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,800
And they're there are certainly 
a few who would benefit from it,

451
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,500
but I'm not going to Reach at 
them. 

452
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,700
It's so sad. 
I'm in the same boat with my 

453
00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:27,100
family. 
It's like, you know, we can step

454
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:30,000
back remove ourselves from the 
equation and just look at the 

455
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,200
situation objectively and like 
they have a lot of expertise at 

456
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,000
their fingertips that a lot of 
people, you know, pay us or ask 

457
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,000
us to inquire from us and we 
would happily give it to our 

458
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000
family members freely yet. 
They don't want to take 

459
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,300
advantage of it and it's a sad 
reality. 

460
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:49,300
I mean, I've had a few friend 
members that have shown interest

461
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:51,600
but it's unfortunate that that's
the way it is. 

462
00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:54,800
The people that are most close 
to you, they just don't know if 

463
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,300
it's, they don't see you as an 
expert in the field or they just

464
00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,600
don't want to be given advice 
from a family member. 

465
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,200
I don't know why that is the 
case. 

466
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,700
But that is absolutely the case 
that everybody talked about 

467
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:08,000
this, I think it's um, have you 
ever heard Ken Berry? 

468
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,800
Talk about powdered but 
syndrome. 

469
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,400
Yeah, I think that's that's what
it is partly. 

470
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,000
Especially when it comes to 
older relatives, like your 

471
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,000
parents aunts and uncles. 
But even even siblings or 

472
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,600
friends or cousins. 
If they're around your age you 

473
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,500
grew up with them so they sort 
of see you as like oh my kid 

474
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:30,000
sister or my friend like we 
don't ever see each other as 

475
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,600
authorities because I think in 
our minds were all still like 11

476
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,000
years old right? 
Yeah. 

477
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:39,300
So, um, it's it's frustrating, 
but I'm, I'm never going to be 

478
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,600
the person who preaches or gets 
in somebody's face, you know, 

479
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,500
like I said, they know what I 
do, if they want help. 

480
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:49,700
They know where I am, and the 
quickest way to turn somebody 

481
00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:54,200
off to, this is to evangelize 
and to make it sound like, you 

482
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,700
know, so much better than they 
do, you know, even if we do in 

483
00:25:56,700 --> 00:26:02,000
the realm of nutrition, It's 
just sometimes it's easier to 

484
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:07,000
keep the peace and just kind of 
they know where you are if and 

485
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,100
when they're ready. 
Yeah. 

486
00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:11,000
You just gotta live by example, 
and hope that they want to 

487
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,600
replicate that aspect. 
That's something I got to do 

488
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,200
totally deviated here. 
But what about some of the 

489
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,800
controversial things that that I
feel you have an opinion on what

490
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,400
about vegetable oils and the 
highly inflammatory notion that,

491
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,300
you know, people on a huge think
that looking at macros alone, 

492
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:33,000
they wouldn't really throwing 
caution to the wind towards 

493
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,500
vegetable oils from 
macronutrient standpoint. 

494
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:37,800
That seems to fit the ticket but
then we start diving into, you 

495
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,000
know, the inflammatory nature 
and the free radicals and all 

496
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,700
that stuff is you have an 
opinion on any of that. 

497
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:48,200
I do and it's very contrarian 
late. 

498
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,200
I yeah, I mean, I'm not saying 
that corn oil and safflower oil 

499
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,800
or health foods. 
I'm not saying anybody should go

500
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,800
to the store and get a jug of 
these things to fry their food 

501
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,500
in. 
But just just like with some of 

502
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:03,700
the vegetables and you know 
concern about those 

503
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:06,800
anti-nutrients. 
People have been using these 

504
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,200
oils for decades on low carb or 
keto diets and still again 

505
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,100
losing hundreds of pounds. 
Reversing all these health 

506
00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:18,500
issues and I just don't, we do 
not. 

507
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:20,800
And those are a couple of issues
here real quick. 

508
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,500
When you go on a very low carb 
diet, you are reducing your 

509
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,600
consumption of that stuff 
without even trying because 

510
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,100
you're not eating any of the 
high-carb foods. 

511
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:34,200
These oils are used and like 
you're not eating potato chips 

512
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,300
anymore, you're not eating 
cookies, and muffins and 

513
00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:38,200
pastries, and frosting and 
crackers. 

514
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,000
So your intake of these oils is 
going to decrease by default. 

515
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:47,000
And that so I feel like the main
source of this stuff is caught. 

516
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,700
It's mayonnaise, it's salad 
dressing, it's other kinds of 

517
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:56,000
condiments. 
And then I just we do not have 

518
00:27:56,100 --> 00:28:00,500
any research. 
On the effects of these oils are

519
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,300
Omega. 
Sits, six fat specifically in 

520
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:08,700
the context of a low carb or 
ketogenic diet because, you 

521
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,800
know, and research suggesting, 
that's this stuff is bad. 

522
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:17,500
Is used in what Humans or rats 
and mice on high carb diets on 

523
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:20,300
diets that are probably 
typically, 40, 50, 60, % 

524
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:22,900
carbohydrate. 
So what's really causing the 

525
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:25,100
inflammation? 
There is it the oil or is it the

526
00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:27,200
hyperinsulinemia on 
hyperglycemia? 

527
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:32,600
I just there's too many people 
being successful with keto while

528
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,600
including those oils to say that
there are terrible across the 

529
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,500
board. 
But that being said, if people 

530
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:43,500
would prefer to just avoid them 
on principle or just Case, 

531
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:46,400
that's cool too. 
If people just want to use lard 

532
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,300
and ghee and Tallow and like 
coconut oil, that's fine. 

533
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,600
But again, you know, here's the 
thing. 

534
00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:59,500
We probably agree about this. 
When, when you tell people that 

535
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:04,100
not only now, do they have to 
give up like 75% of what they 

536
00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:05,900
eat in a day. 
The bread, the pasta, the 

537
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:09,000
cereal, the rice, the potatoes. 
Not only do you have to quit all

538
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,000
that. 
Now you can't get the normal 

539
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,700
salad dressing you've been Using
for 20 years now you have to 

540
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:17,800
make it from scratch from 
organic avocado oil or you have 

541
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,300
to make your own mayonnaise with
bacon fat on ye or, you know, we

542
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:24,700
are automatically going to 
exclude. 

543
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:28,800
A lot of people who don't have 
the money for that and keto. 

544
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,900
I do not want keto to be some 
elitist. 

545
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:35,100
Snob as thing, that only 
millionaires can afford like 

546
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:39,000
this because the fact is this, 
you can eat keto at McDonald's. 

547
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,800
You can get burger patties 
without a bond. 

548
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,500
You can get a pepperoni stick 
and Pork rinds at a gas station 

549
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:48,100
like you don't have to be a PhD.
You don't have to be a 

550
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:53,900
zillionaire and it just is so 
elitist when people make it 

551
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:57,400
sound like you absolutely cannot
have any of that stuff. 

552
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,900
That's just going to it just 
excludes way too many people. 

553
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,000
Yeah I'm one thousand percent 
agree. 

554
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,200
I feel like like none of this 
was even in the conversation. 

555
00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:08,500
When I started keto, certainly 
not when you started exactly. 

556
00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:10,300
Yeah. 
Your to entry was much much 

557
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:12,600
lower and now kind of going back
to what we were saying earlier, 

558
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,100
people that are Coming into the 
space and they're Googling, you 

559
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:18,600
know, what is key to how to eat 
keto and they're getting dissed.

560
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,100
This massive diatribe of 
information about vegetable oils

561
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:25,700
and artificial sweeteners like 
they don't even know what an 

562
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:27,600
artificial sweetener is at that 
point. 

563
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:31,200
So it becomes incredibly 
exclusive and the barrier to 

564
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,400
entry is very high. 
I feel like all that stuff is 

565
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,900
good information. 
It's relevant information, it's 

566
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,700
information that I want to know,
but that's stuff that I want to 

567
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:40,900
know what? 
Like the keto 7.0 overs. 

568
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,900
Not the keto 1.0 version. 
Yeah totally. 

569
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,700
So I'm right there with you on 
that one as well with you having

570
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:51,500
been in this space as long as 
you have have there been 

571
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:55,600
anything anything that you've 
learned about following this 

572
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:01,200
diet and lifestyle long-term 
that have caused you to question

573
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,100
whether or not? 
It was ideal optimal, especially

574
00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:07,600
around the topics of like 
hormonal health for females. 

575
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,800
For instance, there's been a lot
of people suggesting that key to

576
00:31:09,808 --> 00:31:13,600
a long term for females is not 
optimal for hormone standpoint 

577
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,800
and Now, there's quite a bit of 
talk about being key to 

578
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,300
long-term contributing to 
insulin resistance. 

579
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:20,700
So I'm just kind of curious your
thoughts on that. 

580
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:27,300
Yeah, that's a great question. 
I think, you know, not everybody

581
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:30,300
needs keto, right? 
Right off the bat, not everyone 

582
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:33,400
needs a ketogenic diet. 
Some people are perfectly 

583
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,300
healthy and lean and fit and 
they aged gracefully eating, you

584
00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:40,400
know, a not like a standard 
American diet, but eating a 

585
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,400
Whole Foods real food diet, that
just isn't super, super low 

586
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,900
carb. 
But I think the people that get 

587
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:50,400
into trouble long-term with 
keto, I don't think it's keto 

588
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,100
per se. 
I think, and coming from the 

589
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:56,200
bodybuilding world, you probably
see this way more than even I do

590
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,400
there. 
Some people, women especially 

591
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:07,200
just don't eat enough long-term 
and especially on on keto for 

592
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,600
some people. 
Anyway, the appetite suppression

593
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,000
is so strong that they just 
don't eat. 

594
00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:15,500
They just eat too. 
Little and especially the ones 

595
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:19,300
who combined eating too little 
with working out too much. 

596
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:22,400
And so they're just burning out.
And so that the problem there 

597
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,200
isn't keto, the problem is that 
there accidentally starving 

598
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,200
themselves. 
And so, I just, I think that's a

599
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,800
large part of it. 
It's not keto. 

600
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,700
It's the way that it's being 
implemented. 1000%, agree with 

601
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:37,400
you. 
I'm really glad to hear you say 

602
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,100
that because I've been trying to
shout that message from the 

603
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:42,100
rooftops for years, people don't
understand. 

604
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:44,300
And this this holds true whether
you're competing As a 

605
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:46,200
bodybuilder are just simply 
trying to live a healthy life. 

606
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,100
Like if you are chronically, 
restricting, your fuel and take 

607
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:50,900
your going to have a 
down-regulation of your 

608
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:53,200
metabolic rate your hormonal 
Health. 

609
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,300
Like there's not anything good 
that comes from chronic under 

610
00:32:56,300 --> 00:32:59,400
fueling, people don't like to 
wear, you know, calories just 

611
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,400
swap that after a few. 
Like if you were just simply not

612
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,300
eating enough fuel, your body is
going to down regulate and 

613
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:06,400
you're not going to perform 
optimally from a health 

614
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,600
longevity standpoint from a 
hormonal standpoint like it's 

615
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,000
just not going to be good and I 
feel like a lot of people you 

616
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,600
know, they experience the weight
loss, they feel This tiny 

617
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400
effective, you know, eating a 
ketogenic diet, they just simply

618
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,500
don't eat enough. 
They're not constant Congress. 

619
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:21,600
Never they don't track, which is
fine. 

620
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,700
I'm not saying you have to track
but if you are not tracking you 

621
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:26,500
have no idea as to how much 
you're consuming. 

622
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:29,300
And that amount is not enough, 
you're going to run into some 

623
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:34,500
issues Downstream especially for
females from a homo standpoint 

624
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:37,500
and I feel like a lot of people 
have been advocating for 

625
00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:41,400
introducing more carbohydrates 
to help regulate woman's cycle 

626
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,700
but I think honestly it's just a
Band-Aid to the underlying issue

627
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:45,400
of just I'm not eating enough 
food. 

628
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:50,200
I think so too and I'm I'm never
going to say like if somebody 

629
00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:53,800
does feel better eating more 
carbs, that's fine because, you 

630
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:59,300
know, even most people maybe 
that's wrong to say most some 

631
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:03,600
people can reap the benefits of 
a ketogenic or very low carb, 

632
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,100
way of eating at 50, 60, 80 
grams of carbs that's still very

633
00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:11,500
low carb for some people that 
might not be like actually 

634
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:15,699
ketogenic but it's still way low
carb enough to get the benefits 

635
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:17,500
you want to. 
Especially if you're lifting and

636
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:20,100
you're exercising. 
That's a tiny amount of carbs in

637
00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:23,300
that in that scenario. 
But so if someone feels better 

638
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:24,900
with a little bit more starts, 
that's fine. 

639
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:28,199
But yeah, I, my first 
recommendation would be just eat

640
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,800
more and I think this is where, 
this new emphasis on protein is 

641
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,699
nice because I don't know that 
just eating more fat would be 

642
00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:40,300
enough to take care of these 
issues. 

643
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:43,300
Like at least at least the 
protein is going to fill you up 

644
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:46,100
more and it's going to come. 
Also you know presumably with 

645
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:54,000
Micronutrients, that might help.
But yeah, I just think it women 

646
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,199
aspect and it could happen to 
men too. 

647
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,000
But women just are so afraid to 
eat. 

648
00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:02,800
They really are. 
Yeah, and it's, I mean, once you

649
00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:05,100
like the hardest sell, for me, 
is a code sick. 

650
00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:06,900
People come to me and they want 
to build muscle lose fat. 

651
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:09,000
You know, that's ideal. 
Everybody wants to build muscle 

652
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,200
lose fat, but if you have 
somebody that comes to me, and 

653
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,500
they've been chronically under 
eating for years, because 

654
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,900
they've been following this, you
know, No this this phenomenon 

655
00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:21,700
which you gotta eat less to lose
weight which is there's some 

656
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:23,600
truth to that for sure. 
Like I don't want to downplay 

657
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,500
then but at the expense of just 
never eating enough to feel your

658
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:27,900
body. 
Never being a surplus, never 

659
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:30,400
take advantage of all the 
benefits that come from that for

660
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,700
them to lose weight having 
chronically under eaten, you 

661
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:37,600
know, for years like we have to 
have a conversation around a 

662
00:35:37,607 --> 00:35:40,500
reverse dieting, ramping, their 
metabolic rate back up, 

663
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:42,300
improving their hormonal Health 
baselines. 

664
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:45,500
Like there's just so much that 
comes with that and oftentimes, 

665
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:48,200
it does not result. 
V in immediate fat loss, like 

666
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,000
there's a long game thinking 
there and I feel like there's 

667
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,600
just not there's not really much
incentive for people to talk 

668
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,500
about the importance of eating 
more because that's not what 

669
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:00,800
sells thing that's not what 
people want to hear but there's 

670
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,000
just so much benefit involved in
having periods of time when 

671
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,900
you're at a caloric maintenance 
or even Surplus. 

672
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:14,600
Yeah, the I don't have a lot of 
people that, that I need to talk

673
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,200
to you about, like, reverse 
dieting or kind of just 

674
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:22,100
maintenance even, but that's, 
that's huge people. 

675
00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:27,000
It's everybody wants to just 
lose fat or lose weight so 

676
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,000
badly. 
I'm so quickly that they, they 

677
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,000
just can't even imagine going 
through even a short period of 

678
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,000
time of potentially gaining some
even if the law Longer-term goal

679
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,900
is to restore your metabolism. 
Yeah, there's definitely a long 

680
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:42,300
game approached it. 
Like you want it to be 

681
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,900
sustainable for the rest of your
life not the not just the next 

682
00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:49,000
four months, I feel like when 
you change your thinking towards

683
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,200
that it becomes much more 
approachable but you know people

684
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:55,300
want that quick fix so just 
becomes a you know it's just a 

685
00:36:55,308 --> 00:36:56,900
conversation that needs to be 
had for sure. 

686
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:01,100
What about insulin resistance? 
With long term key to feel like 

687
00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:03,800
that's something that has gained
a lot of traction. 

688
00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:07,300
As a concept lately, I was just 
actually listen to a podcast of 

689
00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:11,200
Peter Tia people kept sending it
to me about forgets, who his 

690
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,100
guest was Jean. 
I forget. 

691
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:19,100
But, but it was all about 
whether or not fat consumption 

692
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:25,700
and I guess he quoted it as 
insulin sensitivity, within the 

693
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:29,700
adipocyte itself. 
Basic is what's contributing to 

694
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,500
towards overall physiological, 
insulin resistance, as a high 

695
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:33,900
fat diet. 
Give me tonsil. 

696
00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:39,800
No, right. 
So I think there, there is a 

697
00:37:39,808 --> 00:37:44,000
problem with the phrase insulin 
resistance, in my opinion. 

698
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,500
And that's where a lot of this 
confusion comes from there. 

699
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:51,500
There is a phrase called 
physiological, insulin 

700
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:55,700
resistance to differentiate it 
from pathological insulin 

701
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:59,400
resistance, where one is a 
normal human physiological 

702
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,500
response and the other is 
pathological meeting like 

703
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:06,900
dangerous or problematic. 
So anybody who's been on a very 

704
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:09,900
low carb or ketogenic diet for 
an extended below like a long 

705
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:13,000
time. 
As one, quick example, if for 

706
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,500
some crazy reason you would have
to go take an oral glucose 

707
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:20,000
tolerance test. 
I think you cannot just be on a 

708
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,300
ketogenic diet for a year and 
then wake up one day and go do 

709
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:26,900
an OG T. 
You are going to look like a 

710
00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:29,700
raging. 
Eric when you might actually be 

711
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:34,900
in excellent, perfect health. 
And it's because your body is so

712
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:39,400
accustomed to burning mostly 
fatty acids, mostly ketones and,

713
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,600
and just internally producing 
whatever small amount of 

714
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,200
glucose. 
It needs that when you all of a 

715
00:38:45,207 --> 00:38:50,700
sudden, drink 75 or 100 grams of
liquid glucose, your body 

716
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,000
doesn't know what to do with it.
Your muscle cells, your fat 

717
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,200
cells, everybody's like, whoa, 
what? 

718
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,600
What is all this glucose? 
We don't need Need any of this? 

719
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,900
We're humming along perfectly. 
Well, on fats are ketones here. 

720
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,500
Why don't we just leave all this
sugar here for the brain and so 

721
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:09,400
it's known. 
It's not known among everybody, 

722
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,000
but it's known among all the 
keto doctors and professionals 

723
00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:14,300
that. 
If for some crazy reason you 

724
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:18,300
have to do one of these oral 
glucose test, you need to carb 

725
00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:22,500
up for about a week, but you 
need about 100 to 150 grams of 

726
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:24,800
carbohydrate for five to seven 
days. 

727
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:29,400
Just so your body can get real. 
Accustomed to dealing with this 

728
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,700
glucose. 
And so when we talk about 

729
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:35,400
insulin resistance, in somebody 
who lets say like you or me, or 

730
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,300
somebody who's been doing a 
low-carb diet for a long time 

731
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,000
has excellent blood work. 
Like in really good metabolic 

732
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,500
Health. 
You look if you eat a small 

733
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:51,300
amount of carbohydrate, you look
insulin resistant because The 

734
00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:55,600
sometimes they also call it 
adaptation of glucose sparing. 

735
00:39:56,500 --> 00:40:00,400
Your body just doesn't, your 
body doesn't need that glucose. 

736
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,000
And and again, you can reprogram
it of a few days of carving up. 

737
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,600
But yeah, if you all of a sudden
introduce this huge amount of 

738
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,300
carbohydrate, you probably will 
have a massive insulin Spike. 

739
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:17,900
Because it just it just this is 
I really, really hate the 

740
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:23,100
phrase, insulin resistance. 
It just it's problematic because

741
00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:28,700
you're from You know why, why is
your glucose going high? 

742
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:31,600
Is it is it because you've been 
on a low-carb diet for two 

743
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,100
years? 
Or is it because you have type 2

744
00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:34,700
diabetes? 
These are very different 

745
00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:37,000
situations. 
Yeah, 100 degree. 

746
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,700
I feel like like when Crystal 
was pregnant and we had to get 

747
00:40:39,700 --> 00:40:43,300
the oral glucose tolerance test.
We actually opted out of it. 

748
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:45,700
We were going through midwives. 
We had the ability to do so, but

749
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:48,400
we basically had her where CGM 
for two weeks instead to 

750
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,900
illustrate that she was able to 
regulate her blood sugar and 

751
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:53,200
healthy man. 
Yeah because we knew I mean if 

752
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,100
we I mean she's been keto for 
seven years. 

753
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:58,300
If she had taken, you know, 
seventy five hundred grams of 

754
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:00,100
that glue Cola. 
I mean, she would have totally 

755
00:41:00,100 --> 00:41:02,800
failed it in an instant. 
Exactly. 

756
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,600
And I feel like a lot of this is
probably not a certainly, not a 

757
00:41:06,607 --> 00:41:09,300
scientific way to say this, but 
I like to refer to this as 

758
00:41:09,300 --> 00:41:12,700
basically the reverse or inverse
of Quito flu. 

759
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:15,800
Like, when you are born your 
more lesson, the ketotic state, 

760
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,600
then you pretty much fed baby 
foods and you don't most people 

761
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,500
don't get fat adapted until they
return to a huge ink diet or low

762
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:24,300
carb diet. 
There's that that phase in which

763
00:41:24,300 --> 00:41:27,400
your body has to To upregulate 
those metabolic pathways to make

764
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,200
use of those ketones and fatty 
acids, it's kind of like the 

765
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,200
same thing in Reverse towards 
sugar and glucose. 

766
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,000
It's not that you are inherently
unhealthy. 

767
00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:38,800
If your body does not know how 
to temporarily and acutely. 

768
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,500
You know, uprightly those 
metabolic pathways like that 

769
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:44,800
would all return if you were to 
Simply consume carbohydrates on 

770
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,000
a more regular basis but you 
don't necessarily have to do 

771
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,100
that. 
So it's not like you're missing 

772
00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:53,500
out really Exactly, exactly. 
And even, you know, David Ludwig

773
00:41:53,500 --> 00:41:59,200
from Harvard has pointed out 
that the adaptation to a 

774
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,700
low-carb diet takes a while like
like to get the biggest benefits

775
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:04,100
and start seeing the biggest 
results. 

776
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:06,400
It takes several weeks. 
So these studies that are only 

777
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,000
three weeks long. 
It's not that not that we should

778
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,800
throw them in the garbage but 
kind of we should but they're 

779
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,900
not, we can't hang our hats on 
them. 

780
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:18,300
Because what happens in the very
short term is not always 

781
00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:23,000
representative of what happens 
over The long term and I had 

782
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,500
another example in my mind that 
I totally forgot, but it was, 

783
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,700
let me see. 
Oh, another example is, you 

784
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:33,600
know, people again, like we were
saying earlier that. 

785
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,200
It's a lot of black and white 
thinking in the keto world is 

786
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:43,000
very little appreciation for 
nuance and context context is 

787
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,700
the king. 
So let's like, let's say, you 

788
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,500
You're doing an intense workout,
intense cardio, super high 

789
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:55,500
intensity. 
Your blood sugar could double, 

790
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,200
you know? 
I mean, let's say your blood 

791
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,900
sugar is normally in the 70s or 
so you could it wouldn't shock 

792
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:04,300
me if somebody was booking all 
out sprinting or something and 

793
00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:09,300
their blood sugar was 120 140. 
So if you look at your CGM or 

794
00:43:09,308 --> 00:43:12,400
you look at a hookah music, oh 
my God, my blood sugar so high. 

795
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:16,500
Yeah, but what is the context? 
Oh, you're on a super, super low

796
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:18,400
carb diet, and you are doing 
this man. 

797
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:22,100
Massive high-intensity effort. 
Congratulations, your body works

798
00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:24,200
perfectly. 
That's exactly what your body 

799
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,900
should be doing. 
It should be pumping out a ton 

800
00:43:26,900 --> 00:43:29,300
of its own glucose to fuel those
muscles. 

801
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,800
That's different from waking up 
in the morning and your blood 

802
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,900
sugar is 140 for no reason or 
you know having a meal and four 

803
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:38,800
hours later your blood sugar's 
140. 

804
00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:41,900
So I think even with this you 
know, quote unquote insulin 

805
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:46,400
resistance, it's all about the 
context what you know the human 

806
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:52,600
body is so elegant. 
And so efficient that it never 

807
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,600
does anything for no reason. 
So anytime there's an aberration

808
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,700
or something weird. 
We always need to say, okay what

809
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,200
what is the situation here? 
What's going on and why? 

810
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,500
Yeah, I totally agree. 
I feel like I was actually just 

811
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:05,700
talking to my employees the 
other day. 

812
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:09,300
I talked to of them into wearing
a CGM and they both work out and

813
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:11,700
I was talking to them about how,
you know, my blood sugar's 

814
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:14,600
typically around 70 or 80 and 
then I'll see it Spike to 120 

815
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,900
130. 
Immediately post workout and 

816
00:44:16,900 --> 00:44:18,400
they were like, well, we don't 
want to see that. 

817
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,900
At high number, right? 
And like what, totally depends 

818
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:22,700
on the context. 
I feel like simply having 

819
00:44:22,700 --> 00:44:25,800
conversations around. 
That is so key. 

820
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:27,400
But people, they just want to 
sound bites. 

821
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,700
Like people want to hear the 
Twitter soundbite two things, 

822
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:32,900
but you have to dive a little 
bit deeper, you have to dive 

823
00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:36,300
into the nuance and flesh things
out, so that there is no fear 

824
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:37,700
Monger. 
There is no misunderstanding and

825
00:44:37,707 --> 00:44:40,100
people can actually take these 
this information and use it 

826
00:44:40,107 --> 00:44:42,800
towards actionable steps. 
Yeah, I see this. 

827
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,500
This is why I'm incapable of 
making YouTube videos that are 

828
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:49,800
like 10 minutes long. 
If you're really going to cover 

829
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,900
all the different levels of 
nuance, you know. 

830
00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:53,300
Good luck doing that in eight 
minutes. 

831
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,900
Yeah 100%. 
So here's another one for you 

832
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:58,600
with you have been having been 
in the space as long as you have

833
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,800
and learned, as much as you 
have, what is something that you

834
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,300
believe to be true? 
And then I've totally switched 

835
00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:06,900
gears and done, a 180 degree 
turn on. 

836
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,100
Oh, that's a good question and 
I'm sorry. 

837
00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:13,700
A truck just started up in the 
parking lot outside my building.

838
00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:15,700
You can probably I don't know if
the camera is picking it up. 

839
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,400
Um, what is something that 
something that I've changed my 

840
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,800
mind about that? 
Yeah. 

841
00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:32,800
Hmm. well, I guess It's a little
nuanced, but I'll start out by 

842
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,400
saying, you know, even wreck 
even recognizing that, a lot of 

843
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,500
the conventional no nutrition 
stuff was wrong like oh you need

844
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:44,000
all those whole grains and 
saturated fats, bad for you. 

845
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,700
And red meat is bad for you and 
all that. 

846
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,600
Even after having accepted that,
that was nonsense, I was still 

847
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:53,900
very much like, oh, you know, we
need a lot of vegetables, we 

848
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:57,000
need a lot of greens, and a lot 
of this and that and the 

849
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,700
carnivore people. 
Ooh there crepitus because I do 

850
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:03,500
think like we said earlier they 
go a little too far in some ways

851
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:07,000
but to their credit, they have 
opened my eyes to the fact that 

852
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,300
like no we actually don't need 
that many vegetables and some 

853
00:46:11,300 --> 00:46:16,600
people do best with none at all.
I I think most people probably 

854
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:20,000
do well with a little bit. 
I wouldn't want everybody to do 

855
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,200
a strip carnivore diet but that 
definitely opened my eyes to 

856
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:29,800
like how overrated fiber is and 
Even just just all those 

857
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,300
vegetables in general. 
So, that's I don't know. 

858
00:46:33,308 --> 00:46:36,000
I don't know if that counts. 
Like I guess I guess I that 

859
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,000
counts as a mind change, right? 
Because I feel like I mean, I 

860
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,100
think I can attest that to. 
I feel like even when Kira was 

861
00:46:42,100 --> 00:46:45,300
really popular there's all these
like keto smoothies and keto 

862
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:48,400
drinks coming out because people
just still fell into the 

863
00:46:48,408 --> 00:46:50,100
something you had to have 
greens. 

864
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:52,600
Had have the micronutrients and 
to have the antioxidants. 

865
00:46:52,900 --> 00:46:56,200
And prior like, seeing this 
carnivore space pick up as much 

866
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,200
as it has. 
I mean, it, you can't deny the 

867
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,400
fact that people are excelling 
and performing at a very high 

868
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,900
rate with hardly any Vegetables.
Like I don't know what my 

869
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,300
percentage of caloric Lyman is 
contributing from vegetables. 

870
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:10,200
Been very miniscule, like 
probably one or two percent. 

871
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,700
So I'm not, I don't claim to be 
Corner, bro, but I'm right on 

872
00:47:12,700 --> 00:47:14,800
the cusp of it. 
But I feel like there are 

873
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,800
certainly a lot of examples of 
people out there that are 

874
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,800
functioning at a very high rate 
in the complete absence of 

875
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,500
vegetables. 
And I like things that make you 

876
00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:26,000
open your eyes. 
I like things that are not 

877
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,700
contrarian for the sake of being
a contrarian, but pushing the 

878
00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:30,800
envelope into what we 
previously. 

879
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,500
Deemed Possible's that people. 
Nuys that there are. 

880
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,200
There's more leeway. 
There's more extreme, there's 

881
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,600
more of a spectrum than we 
initially realized. 

882
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,800
Yeah, yeah. 
So I'm right there with you. 

883
00:47:43,100 --> 00:47:44,300
Well what's in the pipeline for 
you? 

884
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:46,000
What are you excited about? 
What are you working on? 

885
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,500
What's 2023 going to bring? 
Well, the biggest thing is I'm 

886
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:54,600
writing my fourth book now and 
it's going to be about thyroid. 

887
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,100
So it's not a keto book at all. 
Which is kind of nice to take a 

888
00:47:58,100 --> 00:48:01,600
break from writing about keto 
even though I do love Quito and 

889
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,300
it's, I don't know when it'll be
out. 

890
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:05,400
It's going to be several more 
months, I think, but hopefully 

891
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,300
sometime like in the late 
spring, early summer the book 

892
00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:13,600
will be out and There is I 
think, depending on when this 

893
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,200
podcast comes out, we have a 
course called the keto Made 

894
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,400
Simple course with adapter Life 
Academy. 

895
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:24,800
And so that's like a really, 
it's three weeks of dedicated 

896
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,700
support and coaching and and 
live videos. 

897
00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:29,900
So that's that's always a fun 
thing to do. 

898
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:31,700
Nice nice. 
Well I will certainly link out 

899
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:34,900
to that, make it easy people to 
find it as it relates to your 

900
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:38,000
thyroid book. 
I'm sure a lot of that you know 

901
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,600
goes hand-in-hand with what 
you've learned with. 

902
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,100
You know, even though it's not 
specifically about keto, has 

903
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:44,700
there been anything? 
And he red flags that have been 

904
00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:47,600
raised with regards to 
macronutrient distribution 

905
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,800
overall caloric intake that have
negatively or positively 

906
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,000
impacted thyroid health. 
I feel like a lot of people have

907
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,600
issues with thyroid and I'm 
assuming it's probably going to 

908
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,300
be similar to what we're saying 
earlier about them just simply 

909
00:48:58,300 --> 00:49:02,100
not eating enough fuel in 
general and a certain that 

910
00:49:02,100 --> 00:49:04,400
they're eating a lot of excess 
of carbohydrates in there and 

911
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,100
some of this and that's going to
play into that. 

912
00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:09,400
But if someone's following a 
ketogenic diet, have you noticed

913
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:12,000
the The vast majority of their 
thyroid issues seem to be 

914
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,900
resolved. 
It actually goes both ways. 

915
00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:19,800
I think there's and, you know, 
unfortunately, there's almost no

916
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,000
published research on this. 
So it's all just kind of 

917
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,300
anecdotal which we shouldn't 
dismiss, but we don't have a lot

918
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:32,000
of like, hard data there are, I 
would say that the thyroid cases

919
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,500
that tend to get better with 
keto and some do I see it more 

920
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:38,400
specifically with Hashimoto's, 
the autoimmune thyroid. 

921
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,400
So and we know, Quito is really 
good for many different 

922
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,600
autoimmune things, so why 
shouldn't it be good for 

923
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,900
Hashimoto's? 
But yeah, the other the other 

924
00:49:46,900 --> 00:49:49,100
stuff I think is is what you 
said. 

925
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:53,100
Like just people not just not 
not eating enough and especially

926
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:57,000
not eating enough in the context
of working out really hard and 

927
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,300
your body. 
Does you a favor? 

928
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,800
It's a protective mechanism, 
what it slows your metabolic 

929
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,100
rate because it's like it 
doesn't want you to burn out, so

930
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:09,200
it's going to it's going to 
lower your energy. 

931
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:10,500
It's going. 
Make you depressed. 

932
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:13,400
It's going to make you cold and 
tired so you don't want to go 

933
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,800
work out. 
It's trying to save you but it 

934
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,700
makes you feel like garbage on 
the process. 

935
00:50:18,700 --> 00:50:22,400
But yeah, I think the people 
that you know, Ron the people 

936
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,500
that start out fine and develop 
a thyroid problem on keto. 

937
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:28,200
I do think those are largely the
reasons. 

938
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,900
Like, I don't think it's nobody 
is really coming into this 

939
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:33,600
because of Coit origins or, you 
know, the anti-nutrients about. 

940
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,800
That's not the cause of that in 
this context. 

941
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,300
Yeah. 
What about totally going on 

942
00:50:38,308 --> 00:50:41,100
another Rabbit Hole here. 
But when it, Comes to thyroid 

943
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:44,100
health and just hormonal Health.
In general, there's been a lot 

944
00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:46,700
of debate around, you know, 
bioidentical hormones and 

945
00:50:46,700 --> 00:50:49,400
thyroid medication medication to
try and offset. 

946
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,200
Some of these, these low numbers
or high numbers is that 

947
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,100
something I'm assuming. 
There's probably like a tiered 

948
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:57,700
system like one needs to get 
their nutrition dialed and what 

949
00:50:57,700 --> 00:50:59,700
needs to be making sure they're 
consuming adequate nutrition 

950
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:02,900
before they ever play around 
with the, you know, Exotics 

951
00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:04,200
hormones. 
I'm assuming correct. 

952
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,800
That's that's what I would say. 
I mean medicine should never be 

953
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,400
our first go to. 
We should try to figure out the 

954
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,800
root cause of the problem and 
fix that, but having dealt with 

955
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,200
hypothyroidism myself and I do 
actually take viroid medicine, I

956
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,000
believe me a burger is not 
starving herself and 

957
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,200
over-exercising said, I think 
that is definitely not the 

958
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:34,100
problem for me, but it's, I 
think if you can't identify the 

959
00:51:34,100 --> 00:51:38,900
root cause And then don't 
dismiss the the judicious 

960
00:51:38,900 --> 00:51:42,600
intelligent use of medication, 
whether that's hormones or 

961
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,800
thyroid or anything else. 
Like, you know, just because 

962
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,200
some medicines can really mess 
you up. 

963
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,300
Let's not throw the baby out 
with the bathwater. 

964
00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:57,000
You know, low thyroid can not to
be hyperbolic here but it can be

965
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,900
completely debilitating, the 
depression, the apathy, the 

966
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:06,300
constipation hair loss fatigue. 
I mean it's miserable and So why

967
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:10,900
should somebody spend two or 
three years trying to get to the

968
00:52:10,900 --> 00:52:13,100
root of the problem and 
experimenting with supplements 

969
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:16,700
and diet and this? 
And that, you know, maybe take 

970
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:20,500
take the medication and and 
still try to find the root cause

971
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:22,800
still adjust these things about 
your lifestyle because you can 

972
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,100
always reduce the medication. 
If you think you've maybe fix 

973
00:52:26,100 --> 00:52:29,200
the problem, you can always kind
of work with your doctor to cut 

974
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,700
back on the meds and see what 
happens. 

975
00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:35,500
But I just were very very anti 
medicine and the keto World and 

976
00:52:35,500 --> 00:52:40,200
I do think, too many people are 
on way too many medicines that 

977
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,800
they don't need. 
The diet could absolutely fix, 

978
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,900
but I don't think we should be 
completely anti the stuff when 

979
00:52:46,900 --> 00:52:50,300
it really can help. 
Ya, 1000% a green when is this 

980
00:52:50,300 --> 00:52:55,300
book slated to be published? 
Oh, not soon enough, I'm not 

981
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:57,100
sure. 
We're actually we're doing some 

982
00:52:57,100 --> 00:52:58,500
revisions on the manuscript 
today. 

983
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:01,600
Me and my co-author probably it 
won't be out until sometime in 

984
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,700
the late spring early summer. 
Hopefully sooner than that but I

985
00:53:04,700 --> 00:53:07,300
can't. - well, she'll have to 
get you back home when that does

986
00:53:07,300 --> 00:53:10,100
go laughs that we can just dive 
specifically into thyroid 

987
00:53:10,100 --> 00:53:11,900
Health. 
That would be great. 

988
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:14,500
I mean, that just, it's, it's so
common. 

989
00:53:14,500 --> 00:53:18,200
I see it all the time because, 
you know, who's going to come to

990
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,600
me for help. 
It's going to be people that are

991
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,400
doing keto, but it's not working
and 90% of the time. 

992
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,500
Quote-unquote, not working means
they're not losing weight. 

993
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:30,900
And if they didn't have any 
hormonal imbalance, if 

994
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:33,000
everything was fine, and they 
were just eating too much 

995
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,600
carbohydrate a straight-up Low 
carb or keto diet would work 

996
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,700
really well and they be losing 
weight. 

997
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,500
So when it's not working and 
they seek extra help, I dig a 

998
00:53:43,508 --> 00:53:45,700
little deeper. 
And I mean, I'm not a doctor, I 

999
00:53:45,707 --> 00:53:48,400
can't diagnose anybody, but 
looking at the blood work and 

1000
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,800
looking at their paperwork, the 
symptoms, I can spot this a mile

1001
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,300
away. 
So I think it's way more common,

1002
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,500
it's super common, and it's 
very, very often undiagnosed or 

1003
00:53:58,900 --> 00:54:01,500
diagnosed but improperly treated
like they're not taking the 

1004
00:54:01,500 --> 00:54:03,400
right medicine for it. 
Yeah. 

1005
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,300
Like when it comes to people, 
Like people listening to this if

1006
00:54:06,300 --> 00:54:08,000
they're doing all the quote 
unquote, right things, they got 

1007
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,000
their diet dialed in there, 
they're watching their intake, 

1008
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,100
they're making sure that their 
training properly, they're 

1009
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:14,800
getting sleep, rest, all that 
stuff. 

1010
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,400
What like what would be a good 
next step for them? 

1011
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,400
Getting a blood panel, done, a 
thyroid panel, done a 

1012
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,400
comprehensive panel, and just 
kind of seeing if there they've 

1013
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:22,800
got any markers that are out of 
line there. 

1014
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,400
Definitely. 
But I think the first step of 

1015
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,300
for that is like you said their 
diet, their diets dialed in. 

1016
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,400
How are we defining dialed in, 
you know, like, are they are 

1017
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,900
they eating 10% protein, because
they're afraid of protein. 

1018
00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:43,600
But so if they're doing like a, 
we could call it well-formulated

1019
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,100
tomorrow. 
Stephen Finney's phrase, like a 

1020
00:54:45,100 --> 00:54:49,500
well-formulated ketogenic diet. 
If they really have a good diet,

1021
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:53,200
then yeah, depending on the kind
of symptoms they're having. 

1022
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:58,300
I would recommend a thyroid 
panel but well and the first 

1023
00:54:58,300 --> 00:55:01,500
step before that is even some 
people take medication that 

1024
00:55:01,500 --> 00:55:04,100
makes it really hard to lose 
weight or makes you gain weight.

1025
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,500
So, you know, if we eliminate 
that like okay, we they're 

1026
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:10,100
they're not on any of those 
medicines then yeah, I would do 

1027
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:14,900
thyroid but you always have to 
ask for a comprehensive thyroid 

1028
00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:17,900
panel when you ask. 
Like, there's two whole chapters

1029
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:21,100
on this and in my book, if you 
just ask for a thyroid test, 

1030
00:55:21,100 --> 00:55:24,200
they usually only run one or two
things and that's just Just not 

1031
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,200
enough like that would be like 
measuring just blood sugar 

1032
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,500
without insulin, right? 
And you and I know there's 

1033
00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:33,400
millions of people whose blood 
sugar is totally normal but 

1034
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:34,800
their insulin is through the 
roof. 

1035
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,800
Hmm. 
And that's Miss that's missed 

1036
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,200
because doctors don't test it 
and the same thing happens with 

1037
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,900
thyroid makes total sense. 
Well, I'm excited for the book 

1038
00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:43,400
to come out. 
I can't wait to read it myself. 

1039
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:45,400
Thank you. 
No. 

1040
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,100
Nobody wants it. 
To be done more than me. 

1041
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,500
Well, Amy, it's been an absolute
pleasure chatting with you 

1042
00:55:50,508 --> 00:55:51,700
today. 
Where do people go to find out 

1043
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:53,500
more about you? 
We said that your YouTube 

1044
00:55:53,500 --> 00:55:55,300
channel was key there without 
the crazy. 

1045
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,200
Where else can people find you? 
Yeah, people can just search me 

1046
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,600
on my name on YouTube to Amy 
Burger. 

1047
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,700
My actual website is in 
desperate need of overhaul, so 

1048
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:07,500
the best place is on stall 
Slayer.com. 

1049
00:56:07,900 --> 00:56:13,300
S t all like a fat loss stall 
stall Slayer.com or I'm on. 

1050
00:56:13,300 --> 00:56:14,300
I'm on page. 
Creon. 

1051
00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:16,600
And I'm Twitter is my main 
social media. 

1052
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,900
My handle is to it nutrition, 
túi' to nutrition. 

1053
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:22,800
And then this company that I 
helped with these online courses

1054
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,900
for Quito is, it's really long 
name, adapt your life 

1055
00:56:25,900 --> 00:56:28,000
academy.com and that's with um, 
dr. 

1056
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,400
Westman to awesome. 
Well, I will certainly linked 

1057
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,400
into all those make it easy for 
people to find you. 

1058
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,700
And again, I can't thinking of 
taking the time I really 

1059
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:39,000
appreciate your knowledge and 
expertise and I look forward to 

1060
00:56:39,100 --> 00:56:41,200
your book and everything else 
that you continue to pursue to 

1061
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,700
Route 23? 
Yeah, thank you Steve. 

1062
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:45,900
And I just want to tell people, 
listening to me, they're 

1063
00:56:45,900 --> 00:56:48,400
listening because they're your 
fans anyway, but you and I have 

1064
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,700
such different areas of 
expertise in specialty and yet, 

1065
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:54,300
like, when I heard you speak 
Aikido palooza, I was just like,

1066
00:56:54,300 --> 00:56:56,700
oh my God, this guy is just spot
on. 

1067
00:56:57,100 --> 00:57:00,200
So I think I think we agree 
about so many things even though

1068
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,100
our areas of specialty or 
different. 

1069
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,000
Yeah, well it's crazy because 
like I mean I have like all my 

1070
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,500
Marketing Online branding is 
definitely catered towards, you 

1071
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:09,800
know, competitive body butters. 
But so many the principal like 

1072
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,500
we're all humans. 
Like so many the principles that

1073
00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:14,600
I applied to my competitive 
athletes are directly applicable

1074
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,600
to you know 73 year old 
grandmother just simply want to 

1075
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,500
live a healthy life like it's a 
lot of it, there's a lot of, you

1076
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:22,600
know, carry over there. 
So I think it's so good. 

1077
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,000
That's why I bring on people. 
The podcast that I know we're 

1078
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,900
not in the bodybuilding space 
because just so much to be 

1079
00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:30,800
learned from everybody, that's 
pursuing true Health, you know. 

1080
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,000
Yeah. 
So thank you again. 

1081
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,000
Amy, definitely keep in touch. 
If there's ever anything I could

1082
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,500
do for you, by all means, don't 
hesitate to reach out, let me 

1083
00:57:38,508 --> 00:57:40,800
know. 
Alright, thank you, take care, 

1084
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:41,300
take care.