1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,400 Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,720 and today we've got special guest Neil Geit on the line. 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,119 I met him at, I believe at Keto Con conference a few years back 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,120 and we got to talking and had him on the podcast shorter 5 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:14,520 thereafter. And he just completed a massive 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,120 undertaking. So I wanted to get him back on 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,160 the podcast to go over that in detail. 8 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:23,160 He just got done swimming alongside his brother for a 22 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:29,280 mile span in a cold lake in Scotland, hitting complete swim 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,720 fasted in a fat adapted state. So truly, truly an awesome, 11 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,080 awesome, impressive feat. I wanted to bring him on the 12 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,080 podcast, talk about what he learned, talk about his training 13 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,880 through that process, talk about his blood markers. 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,640 He tracked everything, his glucose, his ketones, his 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,360 testosterone, everything. So really wanted to just do a 16 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,800 deep dive on that and his experience. 17 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,040 I've got no doubt that he will take something from this so that 18 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,880 further delay, sit back, relax, enjoy the conversation with Neil 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,840 and we are live. Neil, how are you, man? 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,800 Back again. Yes, back again, doing very 21 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:10,480 well. Thank you. 22 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,640 Great to be back to speak to you post swim at least for that 23 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,160 shows that I survived the swim. So that's a good start. 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,560 You are in fact alive. That must feel good. 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,120 So when was the the last, the first podcast we did was that 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,520 what about two, maybe three months ago now? 27 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,080 Yeah, that was probably about 2 1/2 months ago. 28 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,200 So I think that was about maybe a month ahead of the swim, which 29 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,680 was the 19th of September. So yeah, almost almost two 30 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,160 months ago the swim Crazy how how time flies. 31 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,400 It is crazy and for anybody that hasn't listened to that one, 32 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:39,880 definitely go listen to that episode. 33 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,120 But on that you alluded we talked about Agulose, we talked 34 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,160 we're gonna have another podcast coming up about Agulose, but we 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,440 talked about the swim you and your brother had looming and you 36 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,000 are now back from that. So anybody that has not heard 37 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,240 that podcast, can you give us a quick little overview as to to 38 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,120 what that goal was to begin with? 39 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,320 Yeah, of course. So the swim challenge was a 22 40 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,040 mile swim in a pretty cold lake in Scotland. 41 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,240 And for reference those it's, it's actually the length of Lake 42 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,120 Tahoe or it's longer than the English Channel. 43 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:18,080 So 22 mile swim and the goal was to do that 0 calories, so just 44 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,120 consuming water and electrolytes to demonstrate the amazing 45 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,000 metabolic flexibility of the body to utilize fat as a fuel 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,520 source. So that was the plan. 22 mile 47 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,320 swim in a cold lake. That sounds like pretty 48 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,440 intensive. Pretty intensive undertaking 49 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:36,360 man. I feel like that would 50 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,320 definitely cause a lot of people grief. 51 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,560 Yes, yeah, it was. So thankfully we did a fair bit 52 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,800 of swimming when we were, we were younger at a pretty decent 53 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,400 level. So if you have the swim kind of 54 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,680 technique dialed in, that certainly helps because for 55 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,000 those who aren't swimmers, it would be a, you know, an 56 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,880 insanely difficult challenge. So thankfully we had that. 57 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,480 But still, yeah, 22 miles took us just under 12 hours. 58 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,160 It's still, it's a big long swim. 59 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,920 It was a long day, let's let's say that, but a but a good day. 60 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,440 It's funny, man, I've, I've not, I would not consider myself a 61 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,400 runner, but I decided to own a whim run a marathon like 0 62 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,560 training, bought a pair of running shoes, boom, ran a 63 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,400 marathon and I didn't, you know, set any land speed records or 64 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,240 anything, but I finished it and I felt good about it. 65 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,320 But doing a swim like to me, you know, not a natural born swimmer 66 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,040 by any means. I feel like that like if you 67 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,640 mess up on that, like you the the likelihood of you dying is 68 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:35,280 probably much higher than if you're just going to run a 69 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,840 marathon on a whim. So potentially, yeah, it can be 70 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,040 a little bit more dangerous. Thankfully both of us have done 71 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,880 a fair bit of open water swimming, so we were very 72 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,320 familiar with that. We also had a safety crew, a 73 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,680 boat with us at all time. So safety of course was 74 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,880 paramount, especially when you're doing something this, you 75 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,920 know, extreme in terms of 0 calories. 76 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,440 So, but at the same time, it was actually an interesting one for 77 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,040 me because I've done previous ultra endurance stuff, Iron 78 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,320 Man's and so forth, but that you predominantly use your legs for 79 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,680 those. You don't really use your upper 80 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,960 bodies. So actually a lot of my training 81 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,600 for this was strength and upper body work because your upper 82 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,560 body does, you know, pretty 90% of the work. 83 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,760 You know, when you're swimming, your legs are kind of there for 84 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,320 core stability and balance, but they're not a huge amount of the 85 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,520 power equation. So it was actually a pretty 86 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,760 interesting, you know, build for me just to be prepared to do the 87 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,560 swim and especially given it ended up being in a pretty cold 88 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,160 Scottish lake or Loch as as the Scots call it. 89 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,160 So it was about 12°, which is about 54 Fahrenheit. 90 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,720 So we were wearing wet suits and and gear. 91 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,080 But trying to train for that. Living in Texas where you know, 92 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,040 it's through the middle of the summer were also added an 93 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,080 interesting kind of aspect to the prep for it. 94 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,960 So a lot of my swimming prep was done in the pool, which is 95 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,400 different from swimming outdoors. 96 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,840 So yeah, it was a pretty interesting challenge actually 97 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:58,200 for me purely from, you know, just the actual challenge 98 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,200 endurance side of the things. And then obviously adding the, 99 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,040 you know the 0 calorie doing it totally fasted added a different 100 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,240 dimension. Yeah, and I, I know we touched 101 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:11,480 on it on that first podcast, but your, your brother had some, you 102 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,040 know, personal motivation behind it. 103 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,720 You had some as well. What was the, the, the main 104 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,680 primary driver for y'all wanting to, to set out and accomplish 105 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,320 this to prove it to yourselves and to others? 106 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,720 Like what was the main driving force there? 107 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,520 So there were two driving forces. 108 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,240 We both had a word say slightly different. 109 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,400 My brother about five years ago was struggling with depression, 110 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,800 mental health challenges and he found that outdoor swimming was 111 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,640 a really great tool that he could utilize, I think mixture 112 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,320 of the nature, cold water and just exercise. 113 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,560 And so he got into outdoor swimming and the first decent 114 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,800 length swim he did was in Loch Lomond. 115 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,360 It was a 10 kilometre swim in Loch Lomond and as he did that, 116 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,040 it kind of set in motion in him. So this was probably 4 1/2 years 117 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,200 ago that he wanted to swim the whole length of Loch Lomond. 118 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,800 So that kind of became a dream swim to him. 119 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,640 So he decided to do the swim 1st and he then asked me to join 120 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,320 because I've done ultra endurance stuff in in the past. 121 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,160 And right at this time, I was in the process of pivoting out of 122 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,600 my 20 years in tech and into my new mission to help a billion 123 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,760 plus people become metabolically healthy as I realized how 124 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,920 important our mitochondria and metabolic health are for 125 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,720 preventing and reversing the majority of the chronic diseases 126 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,520 out there. And so, you know, realizing all 127 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,360 of that, I then decided to add the additional twist onto it of 128 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,920 doing it 0 calorie really to demonstrate that sugar and 129 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,640 carbohydrates are not needed for athletic endeavour. 130 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,400 And therefore the translation of that into everyday life to help 131 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,000 people to do something that people thought, you know, 132 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,320 couldn't necessarily be done. And to hopefully make people 133 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,280 think twice before they grab a granola bar or take, you know, 134 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,480 an energy gel before they go to a gym for a 3045 minute workout. 135 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,480 Because the current paradigm around any exercise has to be 136 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,240 fueled with, you know, sugar, glucose and carbohydrates is 137 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,360 driving a huge amount of the chronic disease. 138 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,280 So we combine both of those things together to really raise 139 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,960 awareness for metabolic health and metabolic therapy because 140 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,080 it's being shown to help all of these chronic diseases, mental 141 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,280 health and depression included. So raise awareness. 142 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,000 We also raised some great money for a bunch of different 143 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,200 charities and are still fundraising. 144 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,720 Actually, if any listeners listen to this and think 145 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,720 actually those crazy guys did something crazy, if you go to 146 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,840 our website, 0-2-lowman.com, we're still raising money for a 147 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,160 bunch of great metabolic therapy charities. 148 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,280 I love it man, I love it now. Does your brother do it also? 149 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,880 0 calorie. Great question. 150 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,280 So he ended up not doing it 0 calorie in the end. 151 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,640 So as we were agreeing to do the swim, the first most important 152 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:11,000 was especially for him, given it truly was kind of his, his dream 153 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,960 swim that he wanted to do was completing the swim was the most 154 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,760 important thing as he was doing his training, he's got two young 155 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,480 kids, family commitments and so forth. 156 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,960 He was, he was just struggling with, with the training and the 157 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,920 combination of the distance and the 0 calorie. 158 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,120 And so as he got a few weeks out, he wasn't confident that he 159 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,159 could complete the swim. So he just wanted to eliminate 160 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:36,080 and remove some variables of which kind of nutrition was 1. 161 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,120 So he still completed the swim, but yeah, he did not do it 0 162 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,880 calorie. And so, yeah, I, I did though. 163 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,000 So it was, yeah, it was actually a good example of still you have 164 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,800 your art, you know, set on something, but at the same time, 165 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,040 you've got to see how you're progressing along the way and if 166 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,800 and if it's not aligning to what your true goal is then. 167 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,640 And I appreciate that he actually, you know, deviated and 168 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,920 made sure that he completed the swim because the last thing I 169 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,200 would have wanted is to add this additional craziness on for him 170 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,720 then not to complete the swim. Totally, totally. 171 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,360 So talking about the training man, like what I'm assuming you 172 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,400 probably lost some weight in the the process. 173 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,760 What what was your like stats in the beginning and when did you 174 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,840 start training and and your brother too? 175 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,200 Like what was the the journey like from the very moment of 176 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,800 preparation? Yeah, good question. 177 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,000 So I probably, I probably spent I would say four months in kind 178 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,400 of serious training for it. I probably I would have done 179 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,960 longer. But as we touched on the 1st 180 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:45,080 podcast, I was also recovering from pretty chronic, chronic low 181 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,920 testosterone levels. So back in March, for slightly 182 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,120 different reasons, which we got into a little bit on the 1st 183 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:55,320 podcast, my testosterone was yeah, levels were around 100, 184 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,120 which is pretty low. So I was trying to balance my 185 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,120 training and you know, trying to recover my testosterone back 186 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,520 naturally without you obviously, you know, taking any medication 187 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,360 or so forth. So I would say I started leaning 188 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,240 into it pretty slowly. I was doing a lot more strength 189 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,400 and weight work to really bulk up. 190 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,520 So I actually put on a significant amount of weight 1. 191 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,320 I put on a lot more muscle, especially upper body. 192 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,520 Secondly, I think just because of that testosterone imbalance, 193 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,360 one of the things that I found that I was just constantly 194 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,480 hungry, which makes sense because generally you need to be 195 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,960 in a calorie or being in a calorie surplus certainly helps 196 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,880 with testosterone. So I kind of just listened to my 197 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,920 body and let my body tell me when it was hungry, tell me when 198 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,440 it was full. But yeah, I probably put on 199 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,360 maybe 1015 kilograms, a mixture of I would say muscle and fat 200 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,720 from being a very lean, you know, kind of marathon, pretty 201 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,840 serious marathon time runner before. 202 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,360 In terms of the, the in terms of, I would say training in 203 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,440 general, I would do probably 3 strength sessions a week. 204 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,560 I really doubled down on strength one to help the 205 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,920 testosterone. Secondly, because I I needed to 206 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,040 develop, I would say more of a body strength to help with 12 207 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,000 hours of your arms just propelling you through the 208 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,240 water. So 3 strength sessions a week. 209 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,360 I would probably then do 4, about four swims a week. 210 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,640 I would do 1 long swim at the weekend. 211 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:26,520 And that would vary anywhere from, I would say kind of 7 212 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:31,360 kilometers up to the Max I did was 30 kilometers about a month 213 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,920 ahead. And the majority of that was in 214 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,400 the pool. But when we did go on summer 215 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,360 vacation up to Wisconsin, I managed to get some open water 216 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,360 swimming, which was which was really nice. 217 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,880 And then I would mix in with that probably three other swim 218 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,040 sessions a week where I'd do a mixture of, you know, some speed 219 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,960 work, some paddle work to really help with the upper body 220 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,600 strength and, you know, just kind of staple, you know, I 221 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,040 would say between one and two hour swims. 222 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,120 The other thing I would say, just to add on the training 223 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,760 front, so I actually did less fasted training than I thought I 224 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,200 would or that people would assume as well. 225 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,800 I think that was partly because I was conscious of recovering 226 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,520 testosterone levels and I didn't want to put too much fasting 227 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,320 strain on the body because that can impact testosterone. 228 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,280 The other part of it was because my body, I wasn't, you know, 229 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,600 it's not an idea. I wasn't building on a really 230 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,400 firm foundation, which I would never recommend for anyone doing 231 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,560 something this extreme, given I was trying to rebalance my 232 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:34,840 testosterone levels. At the same time, we'd already 233 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,360 agreed and committed to the date and it was kind of penciled in 234 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,960 the diary. So I was really trying to 235 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:45,160 optimize around that and so I would generally do most sessions 236 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,440 at least start fasted for, you know, 1-2, sometimes 3 hours up 237 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,320 until I really felt my body saying no, I, I feel like I, I 238 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,000 need something. But then I would fuel, I would 239 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,440 fuel with, you know, healthy fats. 240 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,760 So thank you for your incredible generosity and your amazing keto 241 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,200 brake products because they were an absolute just saviour for 242 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,960 ease as part of training, especially, you know, when 243 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,200 travelling and trying to train at the same time. 244 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,200 And so I did. That's generally how I 245 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:19,440 approached it, but I did make sure about a month ahead. 246 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,720 I always try to do 80% of the target goal of whatever an ultra 247 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,000 endurance kind of is about a month ahead. 248 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,680 And so a month ahead of the actual swim, I managed to do a 249 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:35,360 30 kilometer or was probably about a 16 mile. 250 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,640 I was 17 mile pool swim. So literally I spent 12 hours 251 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,200 just what is about 10 1/2 hours down at the pool. 252 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,320 And I did that totally fasted just because I wasn't planning 253 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,640 to. But as I grew into that swim, my 254 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,280 body just felt better and better and stronger and stronger. 255 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,680 So that was a really great sign that my body was starting to get 256 00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:00,040 into balance and homeostasis. Because I think when your body 257 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,520 feels totally comfortable and you're push pushing the adaptive 258 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,920 stress, then I really actually didn't feel hungry throughout 259 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,560 that whole swim and I just felt I got stronger throughout the 260 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,520 swim. So yeah, sorry, a little bit of 261 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,240 a long answer, but that was kind of how I approached the 262 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,880 training. And I would say how the training 263 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,560 then evolved over the kind of the weeks and months in the 264 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,840 build up to the event. No, it totally makes sense, man. 265 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,560 Did you train alongside your brother much? 266 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,560 Like were you kind of holding each other accountable or were 267 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:25,960 you all separate a lot of that time? 268 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,000 Yeah, good question. I think we were a little bit 269 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,080 separate. So we did, we did keep in touch 270 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,320 a fair bit. Obviously he he lives in 271 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,880 Scotland, I live in Houston. So we would keep in touch as we 272 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:41,000 were doing it, but it wasn't maybe as close as maybe it maybe 273 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,520 it should have been. And I think certainly speaking 274 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,880 to him afterwards and Dave reflecting on his training, I 275 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,160 think he already felt that he was pretty well fat adapted. 276 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,800 And so it would be a simple transition into being, I would 277 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,600 say, you know, truly fat adapted. 278 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,840 And I think he found that process a lot more challenging 279 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,000 than than he thought that it would be. 280 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,200 They also had a bunch of different trips and holidays and 281 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,560 things. And I know it's it's difficult 282 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,480 to fit this in around family life as well. 283 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,080 But I also reflected a little bit myself and I'd be interested 284 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,240 to know your thoughts here. But I think to be truly fat 285 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,000 adapted, sometimes I think you need to maybe take one or two 286 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,680 steps backwards to then go 3 forwards as your muscles and 287 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,240 your body truly adapts to utilizing, you know, fat ketones 288 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,800 as, as the fuel source. And so I think maybe he just 289 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,720 struggled a little bit there and being in a bit closer contact 290 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,680 throughout the training build up maybe would have been better. 291 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,480 Yeah, it's, it's tricky, man. Like people often times like 292 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,440 athletes that I work with that are, you know, considering a 293 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,800 ketogenic approach, they oftentimes don't want to take 294 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,280 the time to take those few steps backwards in order to take 295 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,160 multiple steps forwards. And it is true, like if you're 296 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,920 from a performance athlete standpoint, if you totally 297 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,640 change your fuel substrate, you will see a decline in 298 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,880 performance initially. And a lot of people aren't 299 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,000 willing to deal with that decline when they can't time it 300 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,000 properly with their offseasons or whatever the case may be. 301 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,760 But, you know, it it takes that time to, you know, fully get fed 302 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,040 that a lot of people make the mistake of thinking, oh, I just, 303 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,080 you know, eat, you know, lower carbs. 304 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,000 But if you just eat lower carbs, you're kind of just in purgatory 305 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,600 because then you're not really making the most of the carbs and 306 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,000 you're not really fully fat at that. 307 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,800 But you're kind of like in this limbo land. 308 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,520 And that's just not really great from a performance standpoint. 309 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,920 I wholeheartedly agree and I think and it is that 2 steps 310 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,320 back to take three or even even 4 forwards because I always look 311 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,400 back to that the training swim and that was such an amazing 312 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,600 swim because once you get in the metabolic straight state of 313 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,160 being truly fat adapted, I literally felt like I was 314 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,160 getting stronger and stronger throughout that swim and I could 315 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,200 go through the gears and you your brain. 316 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,080 I also find my brain just operates on a different level 317 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,079 when it's running on ketones. And so I actually just found 318 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:10,240 that 30K pool swim 10 hours was actually one of, although it was 319 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,560 10 hours, you know, just spent face down in a pool. 320 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,240 It was actually one of the, I would say the highlights of my 321 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,000 year doing that because I wasn't sure how it was going to go. 322 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,960 But when you get into that metabolic state and you're fully 323 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,800 adapted, you've just, you feel like you're, you know, an 324 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,160 electric car, you're like a Tesla car, but you've got 325 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,800 unlimited range and you can just keep going and keep going and 326 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,880 keep going. And you're just, you have this 327 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:39,320 access to this clean, incredible energy source that gives both 328 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:44,280 your muscles and your brain, yeah, just much cleaner, purer 329 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:45,960 fuel. It's a it's a really great 330 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,880 feeling and state to be in. Yeah, and from like a swimming 331 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,800 standpoint, again, I'm not a swimmer, but just I'm, I'm being 332 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,560 speculative here. But like with with running for 333 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,840 instance, you're constantly impacting the pavement. 334 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,320 With swimming, there's no hard impact necessarily because 335 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,400 you're in the water. But if you're in a deeply fat 336 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,840 adapted state, especially if you're fasting, your body's 337 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,640 ability to shunt inflammation is going to be exponentially higher 338 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,760 than if you want a carb dependent, you know, glucose 339 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,680 derived state. And if you're not pounding 340 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,800 yourself on the pavement and you're in the water, the primary 341 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,360 inflammation is going to be right there in your shoulders 342 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,920 and you know, your traps and everything as you're swimming. 343 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,520 And if you can minimize that by simply being fat adapted, I 344 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,000 would imagine your range is, you know, significantly lengthened. 345 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,280 Yeah, totally agree. And that's certainly the actual 346 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:36,800 challenge Day was a little bit different, which is actually 347 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,160 very interesting from a metabolic perspective as well. 348 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,400 So we can dig into that a little bit. 349 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,880 But certainly when I finished that swim, yeah, you know, my 350 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,160 shoulders, you know, were were of course tired after swimming 351 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,560 for 10 hours. But honestly, I woke up the next 352 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,840 morning and I wasn't actually even that sore. 353 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,720 I think I even did a did an easy swim the following day, maybe 354 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,320 just an hour or something. And to your, to your point, you 355 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,480 know, previously and obviously it would be interesting to do 356 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,200 the same thing IA carb to see the difference between the two. 357 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,800 But I certainly, yeah, I certainly ascribe to everything 358 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,120 that you've said Once you're if if you can kind of get into that 359 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,840 kind of homeostasis, slightly adaptive stress, then I think 360 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,360 that's exactly how the body works. 361 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,200 Now, on the last podcast, you know, we had talked about the 362 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,440 main goal being both you all to complete it, which it sounds 363 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,360 like both you all did. And then I was kind of, you 364 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,560 know, jabbing a little bit saying, OK, y'all are brothers, 365 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,280 I've got a brother. We're all a little competitive 366 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:33,560 in nature. Who's actually going to cross 367 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,520 the finish line first. So who? 368 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,560 Who is the winner there? Good question. 369 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,720 So we got to the the finish line together, but I would say that 370 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,960 if there was a Sprint finish at the end, I think my brother Dave 371 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,920 actually would have would have won the Sprint finish. 372 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,160 I, I had only one gear on challenge day and we can, and 373 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,960 this is not me making a brotherly excuse. 374 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,160 So maybe it is, you know, either or it doesn't matter. 375 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,120 But but my, my experience on challenge day, whilst it was 376 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,840 still great and I loved it was a bit different from my training 377 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,680 swim and it was interesting. I did a bunch of blood tests, 378 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,000 you know, a couple of weeks before, the day of the day after 379 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,160 and a couple of weeks afterwards. 380 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,680 I also wore a continuous glucose monitor and did a bunch of 381 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,080 ketone testing. And so I got some really 382 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,400 interesting insights into kind of what was happening during the 383 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,920 swim and around the swim. But I think some of that 384 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,800 actually explained I only had one gear on challenge day. 385 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:32,240 And so I unlike my practice swim, yeah, I wasn't able to 386 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,360 ramp through the gears and so I had to grind out a little bit 387 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:36,920 more. But there's an interesting back 388 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,280 story, which I think is that maybe equally important for 389 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,200 listeners, for everybody else to realize, yeah, just how 390 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,080 important other factors are aside from, you know, fuel and 391 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,040 exercise in terms of metabolic health. 392 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:51,920 Yeah, yeah, we'll talk talk about that. 393 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,360 What was the, I totally understand the the one year 394 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,440 approach like on challenges, like the more variables you can 395 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,880 control for the variables. So if you're able to, the 396 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,480 better. So if you're able to just, you 397 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,600 know, dial in for one speed that you know your body performs well 398 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,040 at 4 distance, I feel like that would make the most sense for 399 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,720 sure. Yeah, so it's actually it was 400 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,000 more that my body put a kind of almost put a rate limiter on me. 401 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,120 So, you know, normally, certainly with the longer 402 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,760 practice swims I'd have gone through, especially when I was 403 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,640 in a, in that kind of, you know, homeostasis, I could go up 404 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,240 through the gears 2nd, 3rd, 4th, you know, as I needed and I 405 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,880 could kind of finish stronger. But on challenge day it was 406 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,600 almost like I was, my body was rate limiting me, which I 407 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,560 actually think it was. So the interesting insight 408 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,680 around the swim was, and this was confirmed by my bloods as 409 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,040 well as my CGM data was obviously I live in Houston, it 410 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,440 was in Scotland. So I, I flew about 6 days before 411 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,920 and I flew overnight and so obviously got no sleep when I 412 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,600 flew overnight. And then the five days I was in 413 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,720 the Uki just had just absolutely awful sleep. 414 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,280 A mixture of just being in a different bed every night. 415 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,840 It was actually pretty warm actually the 3-4 days leading up 416 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,320 to the swim and the places we were staying, you know, didn't 417 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,040 have air conditioning and, and, and things like that. 418 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,960 So I just had five nights of horrible sleep and whilst I 419 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,040 wasn't tracking anything at the time because I prefer to just do 420 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,400 challenges and Tafinzi body, when I looked retrospectively, 421 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,960 you know, my average sleep score on my Garmin was I think like 45 422 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,640 or something pretty horrific like that. 423 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:33,440 But when you look at my bloods, my fasting insulin 6 days ahead 424 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,040 of the swim when I was in the US was down at 2:00 and that 425 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,360 increased to 6.5 the morning of the swim and up to 8.6 the day 426 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,400 after the swim. That was also backed by my 427 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,320 average glucose levels from my CGM, which were around 90 prior 428 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,160 to the swim. The day before the swim, you 429 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,680 know, they got up to 103. The day after the swim they were 430 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,960 at 109. And I didn't change anything in 431 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,480 terms of my diet, what I was eating. 432 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,160 I wasn't, you know, particularly stressed around the challenge 433 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,040 per SE, although of course, when you're building up to an event, 434 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,040 that is going to be some element of stress. 435 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,760 But for me, what was striking, what surprised me was just how 436 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:19,920 quickly my body kind of basically mobilize that and 437 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,800 almost put this, I think, you know, self defence in that it 438 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,520 wasn't truly in a happy place as I was starting the swim. 439 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,680 And it was amazing to me that, you know, 4-5 nights of terrible 440 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,120 sleep can have such an impact on your metabolism, even if you're 441 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,120 very low carb. Again, I was eating less than 30 442 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,080 grams of, you know, of carbs a day consistently throughout the 443 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,720 training and up and up to the swim. 444 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,240 So, and I think that was the reason why on challenge day, I 445 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,120 just, I didn't have any gear above that. 446 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,680 Because I think if your body's not in that, if it's starting to 447 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,880 shift, you know, more to the the chronic stress and the adaptive 448 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,320 stress, I think it does then you know, just it does rate limit 449 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,520 you as a self-defense mechanism. So that for me was a really 450 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,240 fascinating insight around the swim that just I knew how 451 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,640 important sleep was. That was another example of just 452 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,520 how quickly your metabolism can change through just poor sleep. 453 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,000 Yeah, sleep is crucial, man, and we all, we all know that. 454 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,360 But like we all take it for granted. 455 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,040 I mean, we never really prioritize our sleep. 456 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,440 I mean, I look at all the competitions that I've done and 457 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,240 I've never had a competitive season where I actually got good 458 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,840 quality sleep. So the next time I'm just 459 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,200 doubling down on that as my primary focused variable 460 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,360 optimize sleep because I can tell night and day difference, 461 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,080 man. I mean, and look at your, your 462 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,440 hormones. I mean, look at testosterone. 463 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,640 I've gotten blood tests done before a, you know, a 5 day span 464 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,240 of high stress and little sleep. And it literally cuts my 465 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,880 testosterone in half. And if you compound that over 466 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,160 the course of a training cycle, whether it's, you know, one 467 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,000 month or six months, like that has a devastating effect on the 468 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,480 overall outcome. Yeah, I, I totally agree. 469 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,800 And as you say, we do know that what was surprising for me is 470 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,320 just just how quickly it can turn and you can actually see 471 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,280 the impact even for me. So the fasting insulin was super 472 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,920 interesting, but seeing that replicated in my continuous 473 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,800 glucose monitor for me just also made me realise just how 474 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,560 important continuous glucose monitors are. 475 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,080 Because yes, your response to food and these things are 476 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,240 interesting. But actually just tracking your 477 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,000 baseline glucose levels, especially if you're low carb, I 478 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,000 think is interesting because it points to then the other things 479 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,240 that are impacting your metabolism with which stress and 480 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,760 sleep are very, very significant ones. 481 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,920 Totally. So let's let's do a deep dive on 482 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,520 all the blood markers. So starting with the baseline. 483 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,120 So when you were first starting, you know, the preparation for 484 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,920 it, you were trying to get your testosterone dialed back in. 485 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,920 So when you got baseline tests of, you know, glucose hormone, 486 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,560 Panem, you're tracking your ketones, you had the CGMN. 487 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,520 What were those average numbers looking like prior to the more 488 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,200 intensive training throughout and then actually on the day of 489 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,680 the swim itself? Yeah. 490 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,320 So good question. So I only have I would say well 491 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:11,040 actually I think the hormones is probably I would say that the 492 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,480 most, most of the rest of the stuff I would say stayed 493 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,400 relatively confident changes too much at least in terms of the 494 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,840 build up. So my testosterone back in March 495 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:26,040 was down at 100 nanograms per deciliter. 496 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,840 And so I managed to get that up from 100 at least to 241 and 497 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:38,120 then 328 on September the 12th, which was in a pretty, you know, 498 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,200 obviously much better. It's still not as high as I 499 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,040 would like it to be, but the balance of the training for an 500 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,520 endurance thing was never going to be helping my testosterone go 501 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,800 super high. So what was interesting because 502 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,200 I was really cautious around testosterone and one of the 503 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,840 reasons for doing the bloods was to see how much impact it might 504 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,960 have on testosterone. So what was interesting, so the 505 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:02,720 morning of the swim, my testosterone per the blood test 506 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,280 was at 384. And then the morning after the 507 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,640 swim, so just 24 hours later, it was down at 2:47. 508 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,800 So that's, you know, that's about 140 points drop, which was 509 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,800 pretty significant. Yeah. 510 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,160 What I found really interesting though, was eight days later, 511 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,000 September 28th, when I did my post swim that actually my 512 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,800 testosterone then went up to 528, which was, which is the 513 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,480 highest, you know, reading I've had throughout the whole of this 514 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,760 year. And I think for me that's a 515 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,240 couple of things. Obviously post swim, I wasn't 516 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,560 doing a huge amount, you know, of exercise per SE, but I was 517 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,640 still keeping everything else, you know, constant. 518 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,880 But I was still, I would say more walking. 519 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,880 I think I did a couple of swims, you know, afterwards in between 520 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,960 that period, but obviously nothing significant. 521 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,240 But to your point, I think it showed obviously that stress did 522 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,320 have some impact, but the body actually rebounded. 523 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,880 And for me that the fact that I'm getting my bloods done later 524 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,560 this week. So I'm interested to see what 525 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,640 I'm like. Yeah, a couple of months post. 526 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,720 But that was really heart warming for me actually to yes, 527 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,840 it did dip somewhat significantly, but it rebounded 528 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,120 very quickly. Yeah, I would imagine as soon as 529 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:17,160 that swim was over and I mean you that that initial drop is 530 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,440 just the acute, you know, drop due to the actual activity 531 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,480 itself. But I feel like after that eight 532 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,120 day span, psychologically, you just dumped all that stress 533 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:29,080 knowing that it was over and your your whole body was able to 534 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,760 kind of re stabilize. Yeah, totally, totally. 535 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,200 Oh. Yeah, go ahead. 536 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,560 What? What about the when, when it 537 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,880 came to bringing it up from the 100 to that, you know, 24340 538 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,960 range? What were you doing to improve 539 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,600 testosterone while you were training like that 'cause I know 540 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,520 a lot of people are trying to optimize around hormones 541 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,040 obviously and they're not doing preparation for some like that. 542 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,080 So what were some of the things that you were implementing to to 543 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,120 raise it that much naturally? Yeah, so it's the majority of it 544 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,040 were I would say hopefully what was food based. 545 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,000 So I did lean into a much I would say, you know, higher 546 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:14,120 protein mostly, you know, whole food, meat, fish and so forth 547 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,200 kind of based. I, I would, I would cycle in I 548 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,520 don't know whether this helped or not. 549 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:26,600 I would cycle in carbs maybe up to kind of 75 grams every 10 550 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,320 days or two weeks just to help take, you know, the edge off and 551 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,360 not have too much stress on the hormones. 552 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,560 I don't know how much, you know, significance that had or not. 553 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,160 I did do that. And some of the other things 554 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,840 that I did was I work with a traditional Chinese medicine 555 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,880 specialist taking, you know, a bunch of different, I would say 556 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:53,280 more herbal supplements from Ashwagandha to Tribulus to a few 557 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,840 of the different kind of herbal supplements to help manage the 558 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,000 adrenals and help, you know, kind of balance and bring things 559 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,160 more into, yeah, more into shape. 560 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,040 The other thing was doubling down really, or heavily 561 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,360 investing in strength training. So I do think the strength 562 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,800 training did play a significant, you know, part as well. 563 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,360 And so I think it was really a combination of those three 564 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,880 things and carefully listening to my body back to the fasting 565 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,520 side of things to and generally I would, I would swim or work 566 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,560 out as long as I could until I generally I would wait for like 567 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,080 333 significant hunger pangs. So I would let the first one go. 568 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,160 The second one I would notice. But once I got the third kind of 569 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,120 signal of my body was, you know, just wanting something in there. 570 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,640 Then I would add a keto brick or have some macadamia nuts or 571 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,160 something, you know, kind of a high healthy fat fuel mixture of 572 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,520 those three. Yeah, really helped me get my 573 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,200 testosterone, you know, back into at least reasonable levels. 574 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,960 I would love it to be much higher and hopefully now I've 575 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,880 been not spending, you know, hours and hours in the pool. 576 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:05,120 I've been doing a lot more I would say gym kind of VVO 2 Max 577 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,080 CrossFit type stuff. Then hopefully my results I get 578 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,200 later this week, I should be back in hopefully a pretty good 579 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,400 range. I'm certainly feeling that way. 580 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,800 My sleep a significantly improved I think the last month, 581 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,040 six weeks as well, which is a huge part of getting your 582 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,360 testosterone back into into balance, yeah. 583 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,200 You have to let me know what the the next lab panel shows for 584 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,720 sure. A lot of people pair Tongat Ali 585 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,240 and Fedosia together when it comes to like the herbal 586 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,640 remedies. Did you use that at all? 587 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,560 Yes, I did use Tonka Alley as well. 588 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,160 I was trying to remember the name of the of the other herbal 589 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,960 supplements that that I, that I would use. 590 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,240 Yeah, Tonka Alley was, was one that that I, that I used as 591 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:41,920 well. Yes. 592 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,600 Do you happen to remember what milligram dose you were taking a 593 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:50,440 day? I, I can, I can actually let me, 594 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,280 I'll just go and grab the I think I've still got the bottle. 595 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,600 So yeah, let's give me one second. 596 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,880 I'll just double check. Yeah, I'm curious because I've, 597 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,960 I've gotten the tongue GAT and I've not, I've not paired it 598 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,680 with the Fidoji and a lot of people stack those two together. 599 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,240 I personally haven't noticed a massive increase in my own 600 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,440 markers with the tone gap but I don't know. 601 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,600 I mean I don't think. I think stress and sleep is my 602 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,880 my biggest hurdle to overcome but I'm curious. 603 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:25,320 What those do, so I would take generally 2 to 3 tablets a day 604 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,840 and on each tablet 200 milligrams, that'd be 300 605 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,560 milligrams of Tonka Alley root extract. 606 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,480 Gotcha. OK, OK, cool, cool, cool. 607 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,880 Do you have any idea what your caloric intake was? 608 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,240 I know you were kind of just going based off of your hunger 609 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,280 signalling, but if you had to, you know, spitball it, any idea 610 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,200 how many calories you were consuming on average throughout 611 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,120 that span? Yeah, good question. 612 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,200 I would say. So I did, I did track some of 613 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,480 this. I would say on on average I was 614 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,200 probably on certainly on a non significant training day because 615 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,400 I wouldn't mind colouring intake if I did have a significant 616 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,440 training day. It just back to not wanting the 617 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,920 body to be largely in a neutral or calorie surplus or close to 618 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,160 just to yeah, for me, I was always playing it safe from a 619 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,720 testosterone level. So I would probably be having 620 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,640 somewhere between, I would say yeah, 3, three and a half, 1000 621 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,240 calories a day. But that would go up to, I would 622 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,840 say, you know, maybe 5-5 and a half thousand if I especially 623 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,320 the weekend if I had a long swim. 624 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,880 Nice, nice. And when you were actually doing 625 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,920 your swim, having done it all fasted, did you feel at any 626 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,840 point throughout that swim that you were depleted or deprived or 627 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,640 things just not, were not, you know, going as as swimmingly as 628 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,400 you had hoped? Nice pun. 629 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,280 So no, I never felt, I never felt depleted or deprived or 630 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,720 anything of that perspective. I think for me, the biggest 631 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,160 challenge on swim day was just the that kind of self rate 632 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,160 limiting of only having that one gear. 633 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,800 And so it ended up being a little bit more of a of a grind 634 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,760 than I hoped it would be. But at the same time, I have to 635 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,600 remind myself, you know, especially given the Scottish 636 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,120 weather, I was braced for having torrential rain and Gale force 637 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,679 winds. And it's for having to be, you 638 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:20,800 know, 12 hour battle against the elements. 639 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,719 And so that was the mindset that I went in and we actually ended 640 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,320 up having really amazing weather. 641 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,600 An area of high pressure came over Scotland. 642 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,760 So we had this beautiful clear day of, you know, this orange 643 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,920 sunrise and almost a glass flat lake certainly to start and 644 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,239 finish. But I did definitely, it was 645 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,679 more of a grind than I thought it would be. 646 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:46,639 I think that's just back to the lack of sleep and, you know, and 647 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,600 the stress and so forth. Honestly, outside of that, yeah, 648 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,040 your body just gets in in that state. 649 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,600 It was happy. And you just, yeah, you just 650 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,840 keep going and you keep, you keep plowing on. 651 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,600 Totally. And, and were you, were you 652 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,560 training in a wet suit a good deal that time as well, or it 653 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,960 was the wet suit the first time on on swim day? 654 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,040 So most of my training I did just in the pool without a wet 655 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,000 suit. Yeah, it was. 656 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,440 It would have been just too warm without. 657 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,880 But I've done enough open water swimming before and I would take 658 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,440 the opportunity where where I could when we were on holiday in 659 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,480 Wisconsin, for example, or I had a couple of business trips to LA 660 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,320 and I tried to find some lakes. So I actually ended up being 661 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,320 pulled out of one by the police launch because they said that I 662 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,520 wasn't allowed to swim in the lake. 663 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:40,160 So that was fun. So, so I didn't do as much open 664 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,440 water swimming I would say as I would like to. 665 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,400 But that was the other reason for travelling a week before. 666 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,960 So I flew on overnight on the Friday till the Saturday and 667 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,920 then the Saturday, Sunday and Monday. 668 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,080 I met my brother actually in Loch Lomond. 669 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,040 So we did a couple of days of just practice swims to get used 670 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,440 to the temperature, to check all of our gear, which was actually 671 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,200 really important thing to do. I mean, you should always do 672 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,240 this ahead of any ultra endurance challenge because one 673 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:10,360 of the other things that my brother was struggling with was 674 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,520 actually the the temperature in the cold. 675 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,680 And I think that was a big, he thinks that that was also a big 676 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,640 part of his swim build up. And I think this was down to 677 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,400 some of the gear that he was using. 678 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,920 His headgear wasn't a particularly good quality 1. 679 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,600 And so when we were doing swapping and testing and so 680 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,640 forth, and he was using testing my gear, he was feeling much 681 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:31,920 better. So he had, he ended up actually 682 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,000 wearing 2 double wet suits, 2 wet suits because he tried that 683 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,280 beforehand. It didn't seem to be too 684 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,800 restrictive on him, but it gave him a much better protection 685 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,200 against the cold. And so doing that testing a few 686 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,760 days ahead of time, yeah, really helped dial in, especially for 687 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,840 Dave because because his training hadn't gone too well to 688 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,680 plan. And I'll never forget on the 689 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,920 Saturday we went for a swim. And even after an hour of 690 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,360 swimming, I could see, you know, his jaw, he was visibly cold. 691 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,840 And then we did a second hour after the second hour, he was, 692 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,080 he was really, really cold. So even a few days before, he 693 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,160 was really just struggling to figure out how he was going to 694 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,920 just at least, you know, be OK because cold is the main thing 695 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,080 in these types of swims that will usually kind of stop you 696 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,800 from completing it. So that kind of testing of gear 697 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,640 and making sure that we had the right gear and we could deal 698 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,280 with the elements was a really important part of successfully 699 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,600 completing the challenge as well. 700 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,800 And as far as the gear goes, y'all just had like the school 701 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,960 camp and like a wetsuit, right? Like y'all weren't using 702 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,360 flippers or anything like that. So we weren't using flippers, 703 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,720 but we did have boots. So you can get wet suit boots. 704 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,760 And we also had these wet suit gloves or mitts, which actually 705 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,320 is there's, there's a funny Side Story around that. 706 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,080 So, so these wet suit mitts, my brother found, they were really 707 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,360 cool, totally waterproof actually. 708 00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:03,240 And so we were the first hour was just amazing because we 709 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:07,120 started in the dark and then sunrise came over the mountains 710 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,920 had this beautiful orange sunrise. 711 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,240 The lake was glass fat. It was just the first hour was 712 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,320 just kind of serene. We were both obviously just 713 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,120 looking forward to the challenge and enjoying the nature and the 714 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,880 conditions and just swimming alongside each other. 715 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,280 And then as I get into the second hour, I start to get some 716 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:29,000 water seeping into my midst, which I was trying to figure 717 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,160 out. I was like, well, where's the 718 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,960 water coming from? Because generally the, you know, 719 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,000 we were wearing pretty good wet suits that largely don't let any 720 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,520 water in anyway. So I carried on for the second 721 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,560 hour and then the third hour even more water was coming into 722 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,560 my mitts. And so I eventually figured out 723 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,920 that this water was, you know, obviously I was taking on water 724 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,360 and electrolytes was, you know, me obviously peeing in my wet 725 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,560 suit and the water couldn't couldn't find its way out. 726 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,440 So it's finding its way into my mitts. 727 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,360 But then I was like swimming with a, you know, with a mini 728 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,720 with a, you know, a dumbbell in each hand because the water 729 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:06,480 would stay in the mitts. And so honestly, after the, 730 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,800 during that third hour, I was trying to figure out, but can I 731 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,720 sustain this for another 9 hours because there's a significant 732 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,520 difference in just that additional added weights. 733 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,760 So eventually after the third hour, I decided to take the 734 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,640 mitts off and I had to put on some much thinner gloves. 735 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:29,760 And then the 4th hour, my arms were, it was like they kind of 736 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,960 had some freedom. So I was back to enjoying 737 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:37,040 enjoying my swimming again. So because otherwise I was, I 738 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,200 remember the end of that third hour, I was trying to debate, 739 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,480 you know, the risk of my hands getting cold and everything else 740 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,840 getting cold versus swimming with these two dumbbells for, 741 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,280 for another 9 hours. Yeah, that does not sound 742 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,160 appealing at all. So you'll have a, a support boat 743 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,520 alongside you the whole time. How did that work? 744 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,160 Did you all like take, you know, timed, you know, stops to to 745 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,680 drink electrolytes or how did that, how was that structured? 746 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,280 Yeah, we did. So the support boat was with us 747 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,640 at all times and we agreed to stop every hour for for a few 748 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,440 minutes. So we had that 3 to 5 minutes. 749 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,000 The stops ended up being every hour for me to take on water and 750 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,560 electrolytes. Dave was taking on obviously 751 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,440 some of the fuel as well as part of that. 752 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,480 And we did think that we might drop that down to, you know, 753 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,360 half an hour as we got towards the end. 754 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:25,760 But we were both feeling pretty good. 755 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,960 So we just kept on that stop for the same for the whole yeah, 756 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,360 kind of 12 hours. So we just stopped every hour 757 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,280 for a few minutes and then we cracked on and to the safety and 758 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,160 we would get given guidance in terms of, you know, where we 759 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,880 were heading towards. So a landmark of, you know, AV 760 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,400 shape in the valley or one of the peaks of one of the 761 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,520 mountains. And then we would set off for 762 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,320 the next hour and the boat would let us know if we were veering 763 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:53,840 off course. But we actually did a pretty 764 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,000 good job of spotting. So I don't think we ever needed 765 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,160 to be corrected in terms of going off course. 766 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,200 So, yeah, that's how things worked with with the safety 767 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,960 boat. It was also really nice my older 768 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,360 brother was then on the safety boats as well. 769 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,240 So it was nice to have, you know, the three of us in in the 770 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:11,040 challenge together. Maybe next time we'll see if my 771 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,240 older brother Cole is is up for doing the swim. 772 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,120 That's awesome, man. That's awesome. 773 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,000 And yeah, what, what did you say your CGM data looked like 774 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,000 throughout the entire film? Is it pretty well flat lined the 775 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,080 whole time? Yeah. 776 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,480 So this is one of the other fascinating things that came out 777 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,560 of the swim. So what I was expecting was my I 778 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,240 always, I always get a spine. I think everybody always gets a 779 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:38,400 spike as you mobilize and start the swim or start exercise. 780 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,840 I think simply because the body always looks to utilize glucose 781 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,320 first almost as a think a check of the fuel tank with glucose 782 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,320 because it would prefer to use glucose because you know, it's 783 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,320 toxic above a certain level in your blood and in your cells. 784 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,640 And so hence why I think it really tightly regulates that. 785 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,960 So I did get, you know, like a 30 point spike in my glucose 786 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,200 just within the first half an hour, which is normal. 787 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,080 Then I was expecting it just to kind of, you know, drop for the, 788 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,720 for the rest of it down to a flat line gluconeogenesis and 789 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,680 then just stay flat. So that trend did happen. 790 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,360 But what was fascinating was every hour when I stopped to 791 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:23,280 take on water electrolytes, then my CGM would dip and then it 792 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,920 would come back up. And so the first six hours it 793 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,200 was dropping from an A starting average of around 100, which is 794 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,280 high for me because of the lack of sleep. 795 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,120 So it started at 100 and it dropped down to the region of 796 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,960 55. And what was fascinating, for 797 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,040 the second six hours, it would pretty much religiously lock in 798 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,760 at 55 milligrams per deciliter as I was swimming. 799 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,360 But then when I stopped, it would drop down to 40, sometimes 800 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,360 less than 40, because the Dexcom G7 won't actually give you a 801 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,760 reading if it's less than 40. And then it would literally go 802 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,520 back and then it would lock in at 55 again for the next hour 803 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,920 and then it would drop down to 40 again and then it would go up 804 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,720 to 55. And it did that almost 805 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,760 metronomically for the second six hours, which I found 806 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,200 fascinating. Firstly, I wasn't expecting my 807 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,400 glucose levels to go that low. And you know, I would say many 808 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,400 people would argue and say that that is dangerously low for me. 809 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,520 I don't believe it was or is dangerously low. 810 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,320 I felt absolutely fine, you know, throughout completed the 811 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,400 swim and at the end of the swim still felt like I could, you 812 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,760 know, go and, you know, run 1/2 marathon or something. 813 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,920 My, my arms and shoulders were pretty tired, but I still felt 814 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,400 like I had, you know, bundles and I did for the rest of that 815 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,520 evening and the following morning, bundles of energy. 816 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,480 And so, you know, and there's a couple of interesting, you know, 817 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,160 theories in terms of why that happens. 818 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,280 I'm still trying to, I'd love your perspective as well. 819 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,920 I think one of them is just the main organs just need less 820 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,080 glucose at rest and, and I think because our bodies are so 821 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,800 sensitive to glucose levels, then the body down regulated. 822 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,360 That's one hypothesis. The second one is obviously 823 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,200 lactate by product of your muscles working pretty hard is 824 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,760 then kind of shuttled through the liver and then that lactate 825 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,520 is used to as part of gluconeogenesis to generate 826 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,480 glucose. So obviously at rest, there's 827 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,040 less lactate being produced, therefore there's less glucose 828 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,760 being produced. And I would just say that, you 829 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:27,320 know, either way, I would like to think that if my organs 830 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,360 needed more glucose, my body would have just up regulated and 831 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,800 produced produced more glucose. But the fact of completing the 832 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,680 swim being absolutely fine for me just demonstrates that, you 833 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,360 know, even at that those perceived or you know, some 834 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,680 would say very low levels. I don't think it's certainly for 835 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,040 me. I don't think it was an issue at 836 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,800 all. Yeah, if you're a fat adapted 837 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,160 man and you're feeling fine, you've got enough circulating 838 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,080 ketones that cross the blood brain barrier and you know, 839 00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,000 answer the needs. From a performance standpoint, 840 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,120 that doesn't sound alarming to me. 841 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,560 I've, I've seen mine as low as I think 36 to 37 when I was doing 842 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,480 an extended fast, but I felt great the whole time as well. 843 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,040 I'll see a spike when I do a training session because it's, 844 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,200 you know, pretty acute stressor and it's mobilizing all that 845 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,320 stored muscle glycogen in the muscles and the liver. 846 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,720 But like if you're doing an extended ultra event like like 847 00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,680 you are in this instance, it makes total sense to me that you 848 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,880 would just have relatively low blood sugar the entirety of that 849 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,200 time life if you were to Sprint all out at any one point that 850 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,800 you'd probably see a spike then. But if you're just continue 851 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,480 maintaining a good constant speed, yeah, I think it makes 852 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,320 total sense that you would see those lower numbers on average. 853 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,800 Yeah, so that's an interesting. So it actually would have been a 854 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,440 fun test. So maybe I should have done this 855 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,960 towards the end just to go flat out and Sprint towards the end. 856 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,040 I don't think that my maybe I would have had a small bump. 857 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,600 I don't think I would have had a significant bump even towards 858 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:57,120 the end because I just feel that because I'm so I was so fat 859 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,680 adapted by then. I think the body just it just 860 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,000 would suck in more ketones and it would use more ketones. 861 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,800 But that would be an interesting test to do actually. 862 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,840 I certainly agree with you and certainly at the start. 863 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:13,080 So I do see the the glucose spike at the start and actually 864 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,080 interesting for you. So even when, if you're, if you 865 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:22,360 are fasted and let's say down at 40 or 50 and you then go and do 866 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,120 an intense workout, would you then see still see a significant 867 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,920 glucose spike as part of that workout? 868 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,760 I see, I see a bump for sure but it's never high like like when 869 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:37,040 I'm in a non fasted state and I have a CGM I'll typically see my 870 00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:41,240 my blood sugar rise to like 1:30 or 1:40 typically is as high as 871 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:45,240 I'll ever see it. And that lasts until about 30 872 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:47,000 minutes post workout. And then after that point, it's 873 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,000 kind of stabilized back down around 70, 70 or 80 is kind of 874 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,400 where the window that I typically stay in, but I'll see 875 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,160 it go super low when I'm doing those extended fast. 876 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,600 But my ketones, I think when I tested that one time, my ketones 877 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,880 were 7 something millimolar and the glucose was 3637. 878 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,600 But again, I felt fine. So if you're if you're really 879 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,160 deeply fat adapted and you don't feel any signs or symptoms of 880 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,440 hypoglycemia and you have high concentrated blood ketones that 881 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,080 are kind of answering those body demands, then yeah, I don't 882 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,560 think that's anything any, any reason for concern at all. 883 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,720 Yeah, I totally agree. So I, I did, I did some ketone 884 00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:29,720 testing as well, a mixture of I did a keto mojo just blood strip 885 00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,120 testing before and after the swim because trying to do that 886 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:33,920 during the swim was kind of non impossible. 887 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,240 And I used, but I used a keto air the device. 888 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,280 So it's a new device that's been at about I think 6-9 months now. 889 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,360 So that detects level of acetone in in the breath. 890 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,640 So you get kind of APPM score. And so as you would expect, my 891 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,240 kind of keto levels were actually pretty very low at the 892 00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:55,200 start pre SEM. So like 4:00 in the morning they 893 00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:02,120 were at .5 and then post swim. So I about 15 minutes after we 894 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,400 finished, I still hadn't eaten anything. 895 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,040 I took my ketone levels, so they were up at 5.2. 896 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,720 So not quite to your 7, but still, you know, pretty 897 00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:14,280 significantly high. And then the keto air readings 898 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,120 just progressively increased, increased as you would expect. 899 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:23,400 So from six PPM up to 33 PPM kind of six hours in. 900 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,760 And then they just kind of stayed, yeah, in the early 30s 901 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,920 for the following 5-6 hours as yeah. 902 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,880 And then and that tracked with my glucose obviously dropping 903 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:38,240 for those first six hours. And so, yeah, very what you 904 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,680 would expect. But the to me, the dips in 905 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,680 glucose were the most fascinating, I would say insight 906 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:48,840 into just what was happening and the body just very carefully 907 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:53,920 just yeah, down regulates or self regulates because that 908 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:59,000 glucose level is just is so critical for our bodies to to 909 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,360 keep in check. Totally. 910 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,440 What was your brother testing any of these as well? 911 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,240 Or was he not worried about so much the the biomarkers as he 912 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,080 was swimming? Yeah, no, so he wasn't. 913 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,360 So I, I was doing all, all the testing and very kindly. 914 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,680 So Sifox very kindly provided me the blood test kits levels 915 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:22,120 provided the, the CGM, Ketoair provided the the keto device and 916 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,480 Keto Mojo for doing the blood tests and so forth. 917 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,880 I also did some microbiome results from Genova diagnostics, 918 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,240 but I still haven't had the results back from those. 919 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:32,480 So I'm interested to see if there was, Yeah, if there was 920 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,760 any kind of changes or, or shifts there as well. 921 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,480 So I'll let you know if anything interesting comes back. 922 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,600 But it was, no, it was just me, me doing all this testing, my 923 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,640 Dave. Yeah, I think for him it was 924 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,400 back to, you know, his his true mission was to complete the 925 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,000 swim. Mine was to get as much 926 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,640 metabolic insight into doing the crazy 0 or some might say crazy 927 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,120 0 calorie but and maybe just a touch on one thing actually. 928 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,400 So there was A and my favorite parts of this one, I think were 929 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,360 just giving my brother a big hug before we started and just that 930 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,800 little pep talk to each other to kind of get through. 931 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,360 And obviously the first thing we did when we finished at the end 932 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,800 was give each other a hugger to complete so that, you know, 933 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,160 those were for say my 2 highlights. 934 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,040 But outside of that, when I stopped my Garmin watch, which 935 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,040 thankfully I think it was on like 1% battery when I got to 936 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,320 the end, but just but just seeing at the end as I stopped 937 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,600 it and had a look at my summary stats that, yeah, I'd burnt with 938 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,880 9632 calories, I think in the just in the swim. 939 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,680 And I'd just taken on water electrolytes. 940 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,840 And although I knew that that would likely be the case, there 941 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,520 was just something really cool about that moment of looking and 942 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,960 realizing that I'd done it. And actually, that is pretty 943 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,600 insane that our bodies can just do that. 944 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,480 And then at the end, looked, I still felt great. 945 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,960 I still had a ton of energy. I didn't feel hungry. 946 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,080 I felt like I could have, you know, carried on. 947 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,880 Don't get me wrong, I was thankful to be finished swimming 948 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,480 because the arms and shoulders were pretty tired. 949 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,000 But I definitely could have got out. 950 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,200 Yeah, I would say. And gone gone run 1/2 marathon 951 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,560 or something I felt. No, I love them. 952 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,320 I, I, I feel like for me podcasting with so many 953 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,760 different types of athletes, like, I love hearing the success 954 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,680 stories of people that are taking this low carb ketogenic 955 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,600 approach into the field of multiple different realms. 956 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,400 You know, like the ultra endurance runners, the ultra 957 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,920 endurance swimmers, the bodybuilders, the cross fitters, 958 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,600 the power lifters and strong men. 959 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,600 There's like literally no sport that this would not be 960 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,600 applicable in. So it's just awesome to hear 961 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,080 your story from a swimming standpoint because I haven't 962 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,440 talked to many swimmers, but obviously you know, you, you 963 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,280 were what, what was the total time from start to finish now on 964 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,320 this on the race day, on the swim day? 965 00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,240 So first time we did it in just under 12 hours. 966 00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:48,840 So 11 hours, 55 minutes I think was the official time. 967 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,080 And the official distance was 22 miles. 968 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,400 The official yeah, just over 22 miles. 969 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,040 I think it was like 22.2 per the boat's GPS. 970 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:03,520 So if you can swim 22.2 miles just under 12 hours completely 971 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,640 fasted in a fat adapted ketogenic state, then I I would 972 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,000 say it's a pretty good nod to the efficacy of the ketogenic 973 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:14,960 bat for performance athletics. So I, I wholeheartedly agree. 974 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,160 And I think for me back to the, the point in the principle of it 975 00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:23,880 was there's one that, but secondly, because people look at 976 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,880 it and think, well, yeah, how could you possibly do that? 977 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,880 Surely that's not, you know, it's not a good healthy thing to 978 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,240 do per SE. And that was the other good 979 00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:34,600 thing about doing all the blood in the biomarkers is actually it 980 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,720 showed that didn't have too much of A significant detriment, 981 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:40,600 certainly not, not anything outside of what you would expect 982 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,040 from that leg. Of course, my, you know, my CRP 983 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,680 significantly increased as you would doing, you know, any 984 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:49,800 exercise at moderate levels, you know, for 12 hours, but outside 985 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,320 of that. And therefore, how does that 986 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,280 translate into everyday life? And do you need all of this 987 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:00,880 sugar, carbohydrates to fuel, you know, your day, irrespective 988 00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,520 of athletic endeavour? And I just really hope the 989 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,880 translation to that, and I know most of your podcast listeners 990 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,640 think are probably already low carb. 991 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,240 So I agree from the performance side, but I hope outside of 992 00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:15,200 that. And I have had this feedback 993 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,960 from a number of people that have said, you know what? 994 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,560 Yeah, what you did. I didn't realize the kind of the 995 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,440 magnitude of it until you finished it and saw the stats. 996 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,680 And you're making me think now about how to fuel my own body 997 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,400 because I'm reading and agreeing with everything you say that 998 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,120 we're over reliant on sugar and carbohydrates and we need to 999 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,800 balance our, you know, our mitochondria and give them, you 1000 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,680 know, you know, worst case at least a mixture of fuels. 1001 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,600 I do tend to agree with you that I do think that from an 1002 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:49,200 evolutionary perspective, we've evolved to be as fat as our main 1003 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,320 and primary fuel source. So I do think that should be the 1004 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,440 primary fuel source and if people find some benefit in 1005 00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,720 adding small amounts of tactical carbs for whatever reason, and 1006 00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:04,480 if that works for them, great. But like you, I think my purpose 1007 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,160 was to show it's absolutely not needed and not required. 1008 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:13,800 And if you start from a true, you know, close to 0 carb base, 1009 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,840 then you can play and start to add around and see if it 1010 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,600 benefits you or or not. But if you go the other way 1011 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,200 around, to your point, you can be in this little bit of a limbo 1012 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,960 where you don't truly fat adapts your body and your muscles. 1013 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,560 Yeah, well, if nothing else, hopefully it certainly sheds 1014 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:35,720 light on the realization that you don't need carbohydrates for 1015 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,280 some of these, you know, pretty, pretty, you know, menial tasks 1016 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:41,960 that people do. I mean, the the notion that you 1017 00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,680 have to have a car but before, you know, walk into the grocery 1018 00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,320 store doing the laundry or, you know, doing a 15 minute workout 1019 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:50,880 or something, it just boggles my mind. 1020 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,920 You see so many people, they hold into their energy bars, 1021 00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,760 their pre workouts, their carbohydrate gels and goose. 1022 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,480 And it's like if if you can swim 22 miles fasted, you certainly 1023 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,280 don't really have much of an argument for suggesting you have 1024 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,520 to have an energy bar full of a whole bunch of carbohydrates and 1025 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,360 sugar before you do a 45 minute workout. 1026 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,920 Exactly. And that was really the the 1027 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,280 point of the point of doing it. And I wholeheartedly to do 1028 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:20,880 agree. And I do think over the next 1029 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,600 5-10, fifteen, 20 years, I think there's going to be a 1030 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,160 significant change in, in the landscape. 1031 00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:30,000 And people realize what you and I and most of your listeners 1032 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,560 probably know right now, that a lot of the advice and the 1033 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,000 guidelines over the last, you know, 40-50 years have been 1034 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:43,640 probably one of the worst things that actually has happened to us 1035 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,440 as the human race actually. Because it's just meant we're 1036 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,160 living so out of tune with our evolutionary biology and it's 1037 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:51,960 driving all of the chronic diseases. 1038 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,760 And it was for me, the realization of that that set me 1039 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,040 on, you know, on the new path and mission to leave the world 1040 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,560 of tech and try and help a billion plus people to become 1041 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,560 metabolic healthy. Because I saw the impact on, you 1042 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,480 know, my own, my own health as well as my family suffering from 1043 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:14,000 chronic diseases and some pretty amazing stories of, of people 1044 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:18,200 reversing, you know, or starting to reverse. 1045 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,240 Even things like stage 4 cancer, which is, you know, can there's 1046 00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:26,080 a quite a few examples out there of, you know, people going into 1047 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:30,560 full remission from stage 4 cancer using ketogenic therapy. 1048 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:36,840 And it's, it's just amazing the power when you work much more in 1049 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,800 tune with your evolutionary biology. 1050 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:44,400 But the last 30-40 fifty years and the westernization and the 1051 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:50,520 consumer kind of push for one of these ultra processed foods has 1052 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,560 actually just had a devastating impact on society. 1053 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:55,600 Yeah, completely, completely agree. 1054 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,640 Well, let me ask you this. So when I do a competition and 1055 00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,400 my season's over, there's like this bittersweet that 1056 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,440 accompanies it. And it's like you when when you 1057 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,240 do something profound, when you do something that you're truly, 1058 00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:12,320 deeply proud of yourself for accomplishing, you've got like 1059 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,800 this, you're like beside yourself, like you just feel 1060 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,040 this sense of fulfilment that is hard to replicate on a 1061 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,320 day-to-day basis. Like it takes those monumental 1062 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,080 challenges to bring that sense of satisfaction. 1063 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:30,640 So how are you doing mentally and emotionally post swim like 1064 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:31,440 this? Like you? 1065 00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,400 Are you itching for the next big challenge? 1066 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,920 Do you feel like you need to take some time to to relax a 1067 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,200 bit? Like what's your headspace? 1068 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,480 Yeah, really good question. Honestly, it's, it's been such a 1069 00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:48,960 mixed bag. I definitely, to your point, I 1070 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,560 think I'm always at my happiest when I've got something big that 1071 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,160 I'm working towards that challenge, that something in the 1072 00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,720 diary like that, because everything else then aligns to 1073 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,840 that. And I do believe, and I always 1074 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,560 have that in terms of my personal mission work and so 1075 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280 forth. But I believe, I believe having 1076 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,520 a physical one is also equally important because it helps 1077 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,640 balance and actually makes you better even at your work and 1078 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,440 your other things. So I wholeheartedly agree with 1079 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,000 that. At the same time, you know, it 1080 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,080 was honestly it was, it's been a really difficult year for many 1081 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,280 different reasons, but trying to balance bringing my hormones 1082 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,000 back in whilst doing the training. 1083 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,640 Honestly, I would say I've enjoyed the training for this. 1084 00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,520 I enjoyed far less than any of the previous training that I've 1085 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,680 done. I think just because up until 1086 00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:43,640 the last month, six weeks, I was battling against my biology and 1087 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,560 I was really trying to walk that fine line between getting 1088 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,760 everything back on track but training. 1089 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,840 So I was, I was always in this really kind of difficult state 1090 00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,280 and mentally that was somewhat, I would say challenging to deal 1091 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:57,960 with. But then really I would say the 1092 00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,760 month out, once I did the 30 kilometre, 80% of the distance 1093 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,040 pool swim, my body really felt much more in balance. 1094 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:11,440 And so then I really enjoyed, you know, that 3 or 4 weeks post 1095 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,120 swim challenge, I promised myself and my family that I 1096 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:19,080 would take some time and just get, get truly get myself back 1097 00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,520 into hormonal balance. So that has been my main 1098 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,080 priority. But I have to say I've missed 1099 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:29,360 some parts of the the training which would have forced me to, I 1100 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:32,520 think, to do more training. At the same time, I also think 1101 00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,240 my body probably needs a little bit more rest. 1102 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:39,440 But then mentally I've been maybe too hard on myself 1103 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,560 because, you know, some days I thought, oh, I'll go for a swim 1104 00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,600 today. And then, you know, I get busy, 1105 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,280 I got this and then I don't end up doing it. 1106 00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,000 And then I'm like, oh, you've been lazy today, you haven't 1107 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,880 done anything. Why didn't you prioritize your 1108 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,720 swim? And so, yeah, it's actually been 1109 00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:58,320 kind of tricky to, yeah, I would say unpick a lot of that. 1110 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,520 But I'm and I did say that I would kind of wait till the end 1111 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,640 of the year before deciding what the next challenge, you know, 1112 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,480 would be. But I think back to your point, 1113 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,400 I feel my best when I'm, yes, kind of set up for something 1114 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,240 both physically and in terms of my mission. 1115 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:20,960 So I'm, yeah, looking forward to reflecting a bit over the next 1116 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:25,840 2-3 weeks because it has been a really just challenging year 1117 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,360 from many different aspects, the totally pivoting and changing 1118 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,160 career to other things that come around with that, to doing the 1119 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,800 swim, to immersing myself in the world of, you know, kind of 1120 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,360 metabolic health and health and Wellness. 1121 01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,440 So yeah, I'm looking forward to taking a step back reflecting, 1122 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,760 but then yeah, seeing what's what are the crazy challenges I 1123 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,440 could probably do next year. I love it man, Totally agree. 1124 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,560 There's no balance to it. Like if you're doing impressive 1125 01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,880 things, you you have to kind of throw balance to the to the 1126 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,840 wind, so to speak. But there is absolutely a yin 1127 01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,560 and Yang or yin and Yang, however want to pronounce it to 1128 01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,680 it all because you obviously can't. 1129 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:08,240 Do you know that kind of all out intensity non-stop. 1130 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,720 You have to give your body and your brain time to, you know, re 1131 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,120 stabilize so that you can attack it the next thing with all that 1132 01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,160 rigor and zeal that you did for the first thing. 1133 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,000 So there's definitely that yin and Yang to it for sure. 1134 01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,080 So I'm excited, man. I'm excited to see what the next 1135 01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,000 thing is. But I think I have no doubt that 1136 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,320 post swim like these next several months are going to be 1137 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:35,040 like very monumental in your psyche as far as like what 1138 01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:36,800 you're capable of. What what can you do? 1139 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,120 How can you take this further? Like all those time, like I grow 1140 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,520 so much after each show for that very reason. 1141 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,480 And this is just going to be a season of growth for you for 1142 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,320 sure. Yeah, no, thank you for my 1143 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:48,800 friend. I wholeheartedly agree. 1144 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,920 I think that's maybe another just a point to, to, to bring up 1145 01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,760 is so many people have said to me either hearing about the 1146 01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,520 swim, listening to the swim, or, you know, I, I could never do 1147 01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,440 something like that. And my reply is always, well, 1148 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,920 ten years ago I was 260 lbs and I couldn't run more than 200 1149 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,040 meters. I remember the first swim that I 1150 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,360 went and I literally, I must have done maybe 50 meters. 1151 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,080 I couldn't swim more than 50 meters. 1152 01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:15,680 So you know anyone is capable of doing absolutely anything that 1153 01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,120 they want to do. So firstly, know that the second 1154 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:23,920 thing is do you have the right motivation and can you make the 1155 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,440 time to make it happen? Because a lot of people also 1156 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,520 say, well, I don't have time. And I totally disagree with that 1157 01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,400 because if you want to do it enough, you will find a way to 1158 01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,240 make the time. Yes, you're going to have to 1159 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,960 make compromises because you are aren't going to be able to do 1160 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,960 absolutely everything that you want to do. 1161 01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,000 But back to the motivation. If it's important to you, then 1162 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,880 you will make the time. So I totally agree anybody is 1163 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:51,000 capable of anything. We are capable of way more than 1164 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:55,640 we thought we would. We, we can do and yeah, like 1165 01:02:55,640 --> 01:03:01,240 you, I continue the just enjoy pushing the boundaries of of 1166 01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:05,040 what we think our bodies can do because you get so much growth. 1167 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:06,680 And that's the other important thing. 1168 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,200 The growth really comes through the journey and through 1169 01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,360 navigating the days, weeks and months building up to it. 1170 01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,200 And when you do the challenge, even sometimes you may not 1171 01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,720 complete the challenge, you may have failures or you may not get 1172 01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,200 the time that you want. But all of that is just growth 1173 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,280 and learning. If you reflect on it in in the 1174 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,240 right way. And I think earlier on in my 1175 01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,560 career as well as athletically as well as, you know, my 1176 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,480 corporate career, I think I was too focused on the end goal and 1177 01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,800 not focused enough on enjoying the journey. 1178 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,160 I think the last four or five years I've really focused on 1179 01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,000 trying to enjoy the journey as much as can. 1180 01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,080 And you always need that North Star goal, I believe to help 1181 01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,800 keep you accountable. But that can change. 1182 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,800 It can morph. But it is the, it's the day in, 1183 01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:55,520 day out of how you approach then breaking that kind of mammoth 1184 01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:59,080 task down that I think that's where you truly get the growth. 1185 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,720 Amen to that man. Like it's all about the journey. 1186 01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,560 Like the I don't necessarily think it's true that you have to 1187 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:06,960 love the journey because there's definitely moments where you 1188 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:08,520 don't love it. Like there are moments when I 1189 01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,200 don't love the training. There are moments when I don't 1190 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,080 love the meal prep just because there are moments when you don't 1191 01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,000 love the swim. But I think you have to respect 1192 01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,680 the journey. If you respect the journey, then 1193 01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:20,720 you know if you're doing yourself a service or disservice 1194 01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,280 by breaching from the required habits, routines necessary to 1195 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,920 reach that goal. But if you respect your journey 1196 01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:30,000 and you chip away at it over time, you truly can do whatever 1197 01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,400 you set your mind to. So I 100% agree ma'am. 1198 01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,320 Likewise, wholeheartedly agree with that. 1199 01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:41,800 I think that's maybe another final thing is I used to be much 1200 01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:45,360 more religious in terms of whatever my training kind of 1201 01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,720 book set I had to do, I, you know, I had to do. 1202 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:49,280 And I wouldn't deviate from that. 1203 01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:54,120 And I think the more experience I get, the more I realize that 1204 01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,320 your body doesn't turn up the same way on every single day. 1205 01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,640 It's your point. Some days your body just isn't 1206 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,720 in that sweet spot. And if you have a really, let's 1207 01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:08,440 say, you know, hard session or a particularly, you know, 1208 01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,200 certainly for running, when I would do either track sessions 1209 01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:17,680 or really big kind of tempo runs, sometimes, you know, you 1210 01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:19,440 would start off to do that work out. 1211 01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:25,680 But knowing when to kind of back out of it because you're maybe 1212 01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:29,160 not feeling at your optimum versus when to lean into it. 1213 01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,120 I think is also a real art of how well do you know yourself? 1214 01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,320 Because half of your brain says, you know, you're just, you're 1215 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,240 just being a chicken, you're chickening out, you're not 1216 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,680 digging into it. But the other half of your brain 1217 01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,440 I think knows that when everything is clicking, if you 1218 01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,640 execute that work out, then the the growth that you will get in 1219 01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,560 terms of your body and Physiology through that will be 1220 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,880 10 times than if you just do it when everything is is not 1221 01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,520 clicking. So I think there's a real art of 1222 01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,440 knowing yourself well enough to then maximize each of those 1223 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,440 workouts. And sometimes if it means taking 1224 01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:05,840 a rest day or switching a hard, intense session into a lighter, 1225 01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,520 easy session. And then the following the day 1226 01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,720 back yourself, you know what, actually, maybe tomorrow I'll 1227 01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,320 feel better or a couple of days I'll come back and revisit that 1228 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,000 session. I found that over the last 3-4 1229 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,720 years a huge source of growth because, yeah, I think you just 1230 01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,560 have to realize your biology isn't just kind of set up every 1231 01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,760 single day to, you know, go, go, go. 1232 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,880 As you said earlier, you know, stress plus rest equals growth 1233 01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:31,560 or, you know, something similar to that. 1234 01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,800 And you know, knowing the days when you really want to hit 1235 01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,880 hammer down and go for it, I think is is an important part of 1236 01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,440 growth as an athlete as well. Yeah, yeah. 1237 01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,640 And you can't really know that with any degree of certainty and 1238 01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,360 confidence until you have the experience. 1239 01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,040 And you can't gain the experience unless you put in the 1240 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,040 Rep. So there's no short circuit to 1241 01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:52,720 the work. You have to put in the 1242 01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,360 repetitions. But once you do that and you 1243 01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,760 gain the perspective, you can constantly know, OK, what does 1244 01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,240 my body tell me today? How can I capitalize on that? 1245 01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,000 Yeah, 100%. I love it, Neil. 1246 01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,600 Well, you are 100% a savage by every definition of the word, 1247 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,280 man. So I've got utmost respect for 1248 01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:09,160 you. I love what you're doing. 1249 01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,800 I love the message you're putting into the space, man. 1250 01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:13,920 And I'm just excited to see what's in the pipeline for you, 1251 01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,640 brother. Well, thank you very much. 1252 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:18,920 Likewise. And that is back to our first 1253 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:20,560 conversation. We touched a little bit on this 1254 01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,280 is yeah, I love, as you said, the people in different, 1255 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,360 different fears, fears from, you know, ultra endurance, running, 1256 01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:31,560 swimming to bodybuilding on all showing that you you can 1257 01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:36,680 absolutely thrive and be at the top of your game with a, with a, 1258 01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:38,840 with a low carb ketogenic approach. 1259 01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,920 So I absolutely love and appreciate all of the work that 1260 01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,560 you and team do around your messaging, around your products 1261 01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,880 and so forth. I think they they're hugely 1262 01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:49,360 impactful. They were hugely helpfully 1263 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,000 helpful to me on as part of my training and my journey as well. 1264 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,040 So I appreciate all the amazing work that you and team are doing 1265 01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:58,800 in the space as well. Awesome, man. 1266 01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,320 Well, let's definitely keep the conversation going. 1267 01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,840 But I know we got another podcast coming up doing a deep 1268 01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:04,560 dive into Allulos as a sweetener. 1269 01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:05,880 I'm super excited about that one. 1270 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,280 But yeah, man, you were on the cutting edge of a lot of really 1271 01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,040 interesting research and you're you're proving the naysayers 1272 01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:14,440 wrong. And I've got respect for people 1273 01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:19,479 that are told something is not possible and you are compelled 1274 01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:21,560 to go out and prove otherwise. Man, that's exactly what you've 1275 01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:23,279 done here. So tip my hat to you on that. 1276 01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:24,760 That's what keeps us alive, doesn't it? 1277 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,920 100% man. Well where can people go to find 1278 01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:29,920 out more about you? And then go ahead and give the 1279 01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,479 link to the the the website too, in case anybody wants to get 1280 01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,000 involved. Yeah, absolutely. 1281 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,560 Yeah. So I have two websites. 1282 01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:44,520 The Swimming Challenge website is0-2-lomond.com so there you 1283 01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,319 can find out about the swim, all the details around that. 1284 01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:51,200 I also have my mission to help a billion plus people become 1285 01:08:51,279 --> 01:08:56,840 metabolically healthy. So that is one bmh.org, it's a 1286 01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,080 very simple explanation of what metabolic health is, why it's 1287 01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,080 important, and really links to tools and resources so people 1288 01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:08,479 can either start or continue their journey because I think 1289 01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,520 everybody needs many different tools and approaches to really 1290 01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,240 help optimize their metabolic health. 1291 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,439 So they're the two main websites. 1292 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,399 If you want to get in touch with me, LinkedIn is probably the 1293 01:09:18,399 --> 01:09:21,359 best place. So we just search for Neil Gate, 1294 01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:25,520 NEILGYTE on LinkedIn. I'm trying to do some more stuff 1295 01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:30,200 on Instagram as well, so that is guide Neil at Instagram. 1296 01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,279 So reach out to me through any of those websites or channels. 1297 01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:35,920 And I'm also going to try and work on pulling together a kind 1298 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,880 of a short documentary around the swim as well to put onto 1299 01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:43,200 YouTube so that hopefully in the next couple of months I'll get 1300 01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,000 that, get that finished and done. 1301 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:46,359 Yeah. Yeah, let me know when that's 1302 01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:47,960 live and I'll put it in the show notes as well. 1303 01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:51,080 And let me know what the the the latest blood work that you're 1304 01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,240 going to take here soon shows as well, because I'm curious to see 1305 01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:57,440 what those markers look like now post swim by this much time. 1306 01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,640 Yeah, absolutely. I will more than happily share 1307 01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:02,600 with you. I'm I'm interested to see to see 1308 01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:03,680 what they're looking like as well. 1309 01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,120 So. Awesome, Neil. 1310 01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,520 We'll keep changing lives, man. Keep in touch and. 1311 01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,720 Keep rocking it brother. Thank you my friend. 1312 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,040 Likewise. See you, Neil. 1313 01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:13,840 Take care, ma'am. Thank you. 1314 01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:14,080 Bye.