Well hello ladies and gents. Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com.
And today I've got special guest Doctor Gabrielle Lyon on the
line. She likely needs no
introduction, but we dive deep into the wonderful world of
protein, amino acids, protein distribution, muscle
preservation, muscle building and all things anti aging.
She's got a new book that just recently came out called Forever
Strong. So we talk about that, we talk
about all kinds of things. I've got no doubt that you will
take something from this conversation.
So that further delay, sit back, relax, take some notes on the
podcast with Doctor Gabrielle Lyon
and we are live Doctor Gabrielle Lyon, How are you today?
I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me.
Hey, I'm excited to be chatting with you.
So we've interacted at various conferences that we've spoken at
together. You are certainly leading the
charge as it pertains to eating more protein, making sure that
you're metabolically sound, especially in the the female
demographic. I feel like we've needed a
figure in that space for quite some time, so I'm glad to see
you grab and laugh by the horns and just wrinkling then.
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.
You know, when we go back and we think about the health and
Wellness journey of our world, especially from Western society,
there really is a huge dichotomy.
The heavy weights, the eating steak is all for the guys and a
woman should eat salad and do some cardio, maybe some cardio
classes, grab a leotard, maybe a a bandana and get her done.
But the reality is women need to be lifting and lifting heavy
things and eating more protein, and nothing is going to help
their fertility. Nothing is going to help their
body composition, their brain function.
They're aging more than being physically strong.
I completely agree. I don't know where that
narrative started from because like maybe I'm biased, but when
I look at females out in the space, I find it much more
attractive if they're a sturdy is a good word.
I feel like if you're self-sufficient and able to be
just capable, like if you're able to go pick up heavyweights,
that is much more appealing to me than just simply walking on
the treadmill. If you're able to eat a steak
and not, you know, be shameful of the food you're eating as
opposed to a picking out of salad, like, I don't know where
this narrative to just eat very small amounts and only stick to
cardio started, but I'm glad to see that it's shifting.
Yeah, me too. Me too.
And it really it really, the time is right.
And I think women particularly are just simply fed up.
No pun intended, but fed up with the way things have gone.
Completely agree. I want to get a little back
story like you are. You've been in the space for
quite some time. You've been like putting out
content for years now. What was your catalyst for even
getting in the health and nutrition space to begin with?
Like, did you struggle from some type of some type of ailment in
your prior life? Like what was the initial
catalyst? Yeah, I am a bit unusual because
my training in nutritional sciences started when I was 17
and I never changed. I graduated high school early
and I moved in with my godmother who was one of the original
founding idea Pushers of Functional medicine, and she was
the group before Mark Hyman, before functional medicine had a
name, and her name is Liz Lipsky.
For those in the functional medicine space, she is the gut
health person who really wrote one of the original books on
health and gut healing, and that was called Digestive Wellness.
I moved in with her when I was 17 and became fascinated with
nutritional sciences. I really felt that that was the
way of the future and that's how individuals could change the
trajectory of health and aging. And from there I went and I
studied nutritional sciences, was so grateful to fall into the
mentorship and the lab of Doctor Donald Lehman, who is, or the
listener is really a pioneer. He's a world class scientist and
a world leading expert in protein metabolism and protein
nutrition. And he's mentored me over the
last 20 years and I never changed.
You know, I I never changed my perspective that food, nutrition
and fitness were key. I mean, there was a moment where
I realized that it wasn't about fat and it really was about
skeletal muscle. And that happened in my
fellowship. So Fast forward through medical
school, I did undergraduate nutritional sciences, and then I
did a fellowship actually in nutritional sciences and
geriatrics at Washington University, which is very a
prestigious institution. And I had this aha moment there
that changed everything for me. I would imagine in working
alongside geriatrics you like that that is just a frontline
view as to what happens as you age if you lack lean tissue.
And I'm glad to see the narrative shifting from people
just focusing on losing body fat to actually building and
preserving lean tissue. Because if you are doing
everything to optimize for that, the body fat becomes somewhat
secondary, like it's just going to happen by default.
Yeah, that that's absolutely right.
And arguably that's what we've seen happen for the last 50
years. We've been hyper focused on
obesity and with that focus we think about what one has to
lose. And if you're constantly focused
on losing quote weight, we all know especially, I mean
obviously you do this for a profession that when you go
through crash diets and when you go through really intense pushes
for weight loss, you invariably lose not just fat, but depending
on the way in which you do it, you could lose 50% muscle mass.
And that over time becomes devastating for people.
And that is what we have seen, especially with an aging
population, because habits are very difficult to change.
And when someone begins the Jenny Craig experience in their
30s or even in their 20s, they're likely to continue to
repeat this every year. People are going on some kind of
expansive or intensive weight loss experience.
And over the years, it really does destroy metabolism.
Yeah, I I've been trying to shout that from the rooftops for
years as a natural bodybuilder because I feel like the fat loss
phase gets all the attention and people seldom talk about the
importance of proper reverse dieting and coming out of those
deficit periods. Not that there's anything wrong
with the deficit if done healthfully and strategically,
but there's a whole other side of the coin there.
And that is oftentimes unspoken. And if you are chronically
restricting your intake, totally independent of the macro
nutrient distribution of that intake.
But if you are just simply not eating enough fuel, what that
does to you from a hormonal standpoint, from a metabolic
standpoint like that, does not bounce back instantaneously and
people are digging themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.
Yeah. I think that you bring up a
really great point and especially when you think about
are people overconsuming or are they underconsuming and how do
we determine which person is doing what.
And really at the core of all of this from my perspective is you
have to begin by looking at what kind of dietary protein and how
much they're having. Of course you can't just, you
know, ingest dietary protein and build muscle.
You do need a very particular stimulus.
But from a foundational nutrition perspective, I love
reverse dieting. I think it is very important.
And then, you know, a second step to that, especially as we
think about aging, is dietary. Protein becomes even more
important. And it's actually the only macro
nutrient whose needs change because an older population and
an aging population has a decreased efficiency of protein
utilization, not just from gut extraction but from this
phenomenon called anabolic resistance.
And I think it's really fascinating that you're a
natural bodybuilder because I I often think about how women fare
or would fare within that because men don't necessarily
have to have a decline in testosterone.
And it's it's so it's fascinating to me, but women
will all have a decline in hormonal status, but men not
necessarily. It's really interesting.
So when it comes to fluctuations in hormones, as one ages there,
I've had several people on the podcast that have talked about
this and there it's kind of like the Wild West right now, like
there's all these different hormone clinics that are popping
up. Some are are well warranted and
some are probably not. So much what What is your
overview general stance on exogenous hormones for an aging
female demographic as those natural fluctuations and
hormones change? Yes, I believe that hormone
replacement therapy is of great benefit and really the the
women's, the Women's Health Initiative has done hormone
replacement a huge disservice. I mean this, this group of
studies came out 20 some years ago and nobody critiqued it,
nobody really examined the data or questioned it in a way where
it really put a bad spin on hormone replacement therapy.
From my perspective, I believe hormone replacement therapy is
extremely safe. And I think, yes, it is the Wild
West right now. But in the next 10 years, I
think that everybody is going to be on hormone replacement
therapy. And in fact, you're probably
going to go to your doctor, and if you're not on it, they're
going to think that the doctor is way behind the times.
Yeah, I I definitely think that is the way things are moving and
obviously people need to get their own individual labs
checked. You're not going to make any
blanket statements for the masses, but is there a
demographic of females that would benefit from not
necessarily jumping on HRT as they age?
Or is it pretty much a unanimous, you know, if you're
wanting to become optimal from both a health and longevity
standpoint, that's going to be the route you take.
I do. I I do believe that that is
going to be true. Certainly it is a woman's
prerogative whether she chooses to go through hormone
replacement therapy or menopause replacement therapy.
I I think that we do see cardiovascular benefits, I think
we see bone benefits, we certainly see muscle benefits
and brain benefits is there. From my perspective, unless a
woman has an active cancer that potentially is estrogen
positive, then maybe that would not be ideal.
But again, you know, from a male perspective, there was a long
time that individuals thought that testosterone replacement
therapy caused prostate cancer. And in fact, they found that not
to be true. And there are a handful of
trials, especially now that are coming out that those
individuals with prostate cancer actually do better on
testosterone replacement therapy.
So I think that there's still a lot we don't know in terms of
how positive it is. As you get more and more steeped
in the research, would you recommend a specific modality
for administering this exogenous hormone?
Like is the bioidentical format typically the best?
Is there like 1 medium that you've seen more success with
than others, whether it be the the pellets or the injections or
the creams? I find that injections are best
you can control it typically a sub Q injection more than once a
day or more. Sorry.
More than once a day, more than once a week seems to be the best
for both men and women. And then for women.
Some women do better with a cream of estradiol cream.
Some women do better with a patch.
It just certainly depends. And how often, always, always
oral progesterone versus a cream because of the it's metabolized.
Yeah. Yeah, and how often should
someone go and get their labs drawn to make sure that they're
administering the right dosage as their body changes?
Once you're once, you're stable every six months and prior to
that stability. Every three months.
Yeah, Yep. I want to kind of switch gears
and talk about protein. I feel like you probably get
asked about protein non-stop. You're probably tired of hearing
the same questions, but you just have a book come out that talks
largely about protein. So I feel like it's relevant.
Yes, Forever strong first book of its kind.
Yeah, I'm excited to read it. When it comes to protein,
there's a lot of misconceptions around the type, the quality,
the quantity, all the above. A general rule of thumb for
protein consumption that I've seen tossed around that's been
in the the bodybuilding space for forever and it's probably
pre applicable to the general public, is if you are targeting
about 1g of protein per pound of lean mass as a minimum you're
pretty well safe. From a muscle degradation
standpoint. That should be a pretty good
baseline, Would you agree? Well, the I think I would need
some clarification because what how would we define lean mass If
we don't it's challenging because we don't directly
measure it. A DEXA is somewhat of an
extrapolation. So how I mean I would say ideal
body weight. I I don't go off of lean mass
because I don't think that we the data would suggest that we
don't have a direct way in which in which we're measuring it
accurately and most people don't know their lean mass.
So that would be my clarifying question.
So when you're looking at protein recommendations and you,
you typically do 1g per pound of ideal weight.
Yes, because most individuals don't know their lean body mass
or their skeletal muscle mass. They just, they don't.
And we have found that over the years, over the last two decades
to be really effective for ideal body weight.
And then of course an individual will say, well, I don't know
what my ideal body weight is. And I would say that the last
time they felt amazing. And again, it's it's all about
what is the goal that one would want to target.
And then you mentioned that as one ages that protein
requirement shifts as well. What does that look like?
Do you change that recommendation as that person
ages or how do you kind of navigate?
Those well, we could first think about what is the current
protein recommendation. And the current recommendation
is .8g per kilogram of body weight or 0.37g per pound of
body weight. That is the minimum requirement
to prevent deficiencies. These numbers this is the RDA.
These numbers have not changed easily since the 80s and is
based also on high quality proteins.
For example, the .8g or .37g per pound is not based on plant
based proteins, so that's something to understand.
And these were nitrogen balance studies.
Nitrogen balance studies are, or was a way of collecting
information and studying animals that allowed them to grow with
the lowest amount of protein and still get growth and the
cheapest way to do it. So it was the highest amount of
carbohydrates, lowest amount of protein to to still support
growth. That was originally where it
came from. And then 18 year old they were
largely soldiers. 18 year old men were evaluated and those
individuals were found to have .8g per kilogram of a need to
prevent deficiencies. And this leads us to two
questions. Number one, what kind of health
outcome is a nitrogen balance and we don't look at nitrogen
balance as a health outcome. And then #2, how is a young 18
year old active male really going to represent women in
menopause, older women, older gentlemen, men in their 40s,
etcetera. So the the baseline
recommendations have been determined to be quite low,
especially to support healthy aging.
And if you look at some of the position statements like the
proteage paper, then you'll see that 1.2 to 1.6g of protein per
kilogram, Those individuals do much better from a muscle mass
perspective, from a body composition perspective, from a
blood glucose regulation, triglycerides, insulin and fat
loss. So we have to think what is a
optimal protein diet and an optimal protein diet is double
the RDA. And when you implement that, we
do see you know the the evidence supports that those people
always do better the difference between .8g to 1.2 to 1.6 people
always fare better. I think I I'm in total agreement
with you. I I'm pretty heavy-handed on the
protein. I also consume quite a bit of
dietary fat and overall calories with my training load.
But I feel like so many people, women especially, have for
whatever reason a very hard time getting adequate protein in.
I don't know if it's because they are just simply not
consuming enough overall calories at their metabolic rate
and hunger signaling is down regulated, but so many people
struggle with just simply getting 80 grams of protein in a
day. Do you have any recommendations
for that demographic? Yeah, I mean you're absolutely
right. So the the data would support
that. The protein intake is around 68G
for women, maybe around 100 grams for men.
Shakes are wonderful. You know, it is challenging for
women, it seems like specifically to get in more
protein. This is where structure comes in
and sparking your metabolism. Not having chaotic eating and
throwing in an extra protein shake could be very valuable.
Preferably A whey based protein shake.
Yes, for sure. But I also think that they now
have animal based you know, Mark Bell made a great steak and
shake. I think that there's other ways
for individuals who can't tolerate whey.
Yeah, the steak shake's great. We put that in one of our keto
brick flavors. It's.
Probably amazing. What do you guys usually
recommend? So I've got several different
flavors we've got, we've got a brick that uses his steak shake
for the organ blend. We have some that use whey
protein concentrate, that's grass finished whey.
And we do have some that have a plant protein.
But on the plant protein ones we use one that has both pre P
protein and rice protein concentrate.
So you get the full amino acid spectrum.
Yep, and that's certainly a way to do it.
Now, I'd love to kind of pick your brain when it comes to
protein distribution, because there's a lot of people in the
low carb keto space that are doing like an OMAD approach.
And there's pros and cons to that depending on what the goals
are, what, what is sustainable, what your daily routine looks
like from a muscle protein synthesis standpoint.
If the goal is to build and preserve muscle, there's
certainly a benefit to having more than one meal that contains
adequate protein throughout the day.
When people come to me and they ask if I'm consuming ample
protein throughout the day, but it's coming in one sitting, am I
doing myself a disservice there? What would you say in that
regard? Absolutely.
And really this came out of, if you look at some of the earlier
studies by Arnell in the 90s and again this was in elderly women.
But they looked at what's called protein pulse feeding where they
looked at a distribution. For example, they fed women
close to the RDA which was low 64 grams of protein in either a
spread pattern which was small meals of 20 grams or less or at
least one meal with 50 grams of protein.
And then they showed that the pulse pattern which more than
one meal of 50 grams, so it had 50 grams and then an additional
meal those individuals had a greater 24 hour protein balance
and they were able to maintain greater fat free mass.
And this was really one of the first studies that highlighted
that adjusting dosing per meal while was important even while
macro nutrients were the same, you know and that's one.
And then from from there, it, sorry about that.
From there, it talked about how when you stimulate muscle
protein synthesis at least more than once a day, you certainly
have a better muscle response, particularly in aging.
And there's multiple ways to stimulate muscle protein
synthesis, like weight training for instance, also stimulates
muscle proteins. Absolutely.
So if somebody was to go the route of an OMAD approach, if
they're consuming ample protein in that one meal largely are
ideally, you know, greater than the recommended daily allowance.
And they're also training in a window of time that is a little
bit separate from that. They're still getting those two
muscle protein synthesis spikes. Yeah, yeah, I I do think, yes,
training absolutely stimulates muscle protein synthesis.
I I definitely think that the literature would support more
than one meal a day because from a muscle perspective, you Max
out the muscle protein synthesis, the amino acid
integration at around 55g. And when we think about muscle
protein synthesis from a amino acid perspective, it's the
incorporation, It's a biomarker of muscular health.
It's what we believe over time to be a mechanism that helps
with lean mass retention, muscle protein synthesis in terms of
hypertrophy over time. Again, it's not a direct
measure, but when you incorporate these amino acids
one time a day, you have a lower 24 hour muscle protein synthetic
response. So in an ideal world, if you and
I actually wrote about this in my book, I did 3 tracks.
I did one track for hypertrophy, which was 4 meals, 4 meals a day
of hitting at least 50 grams of protein.
Arguably, if you're a a woman, you might not need that much.
There's ways to adjust that. But if you're really thinking
about longevity, then two meals a day of at least 50 grams of
protein will certainly protect muscle mass in a more robust
way. Yeah, it's interesting.
Like when I'm in a building phase, I'm consuming north of
3500 calories. So for me in that state, I don't
find it pleasant to consume all of that in one sitting.
So I'll typically break that into two or three meals by
default. When I'm in a cutting phase, I
find it more psychologically sustainable to have one large
meal that I actually say to me, as opposed to multiple smaller
meals that always leave me wanting more.
So I'll do the OMET approach in the deficit, which again is not
trying to prioritize muscle growth more so me just trying to
make being in a deficit as sustainable as possible.
But in that context, if I separate the training from the
meal and then maybe supplement with some leucine or amino acids
intermittently in between, that would likely be the best way to
mitigate any adverse response there.
I don't know if separate I, you know, I think it's an
interesting in perspective. I I certainly would never
recommend supplementing with leucine alone because when you
supplement with leucine alone you create somewhat of an
imbalance of isoleucine and valine.
So there's leucine, isoleucine and valine, and leucine alone
would not be something I would supplement.
But where there could be some benefit is an essential amino
acid mix where you have all of the amino acids and then your
body will make the remainder. That could certainly help offset
any kind of degradation or potentially allowing you to
mitigate those aspects. Totally out of curiosity, what
is a typical day of eating and training frequency look like for
you? Like how do you structure your
routine to optimize muscle protein synthesis and just go
throughout your day-to-day? Yeah, I train first thing in the
morning. I train first thing in the
morning and then I'll have some kind of protein.
I do train fast it I haven't today because I've been kind of
rushing around with you know I've had two very little kids so
been rushing around this morning but I will eat, you know I might
eat two to three times a day and I will obviously always
prioritize protein. The and it might be actually low
fat Greek yogurt with some berries post training.
It could be and it doesn't have to be post training Again, the
more active you are, the less it matters when you're getting that
protein in. I will also have some lean
steak. I love Piedmontese, We eat them
all the time and I'll have some greens.
I love Shishado Peppers but I have around 100 to 110 grams of
protein a day. I'm a very small person.
For me that's around 1g per pound, ideal body weight, and
then actually I'm more carbohydrate heavy.
I just seem to be a really fast burner.
So I'll have that equal amount of carbohydrates but not quite
as much fat. I seem to just not do very well
on FAT. Any idea what your total caloric
can take? Averages out on a daily basis.
Probably around 15 to 2000 calories, 15102 thousand
calories. And you feel pretty satiated and
fuelled with that. Oh yeah.
I I have to actually force
myself to eat. I probably do better and perform
much better if I can get food down.
Have you been? Are you?
Like, you know, so it's interesting.
I some people live to eat and some people eat because they
just have to. I am one of those people that I
do not care about food at all. I'm so uninterested in terms of
it doesn't really have to taste good.
I mean, listen, in my book I made everything taste good and
it really is well designed and well done.
But for me, I'm not a I'm not a foodie, I'd say that.
Yeah, I am, definitely. Whether or not I'm a foodie is
totally dependent on whether or not I'm in a cut or building
phase. If I'm at a surplus, then I
could think less about food. Like, it just is what it is, you
know, part of the day when I'm in a deficit, it's like, OK, I'm
definitely thinking about that next meal because I'm getting
hungry for sure. When it comes to weight
training, especially in the aging female demographic, I've
got to give shout out to my mom. I've been trying to get her to
adopt A keto low carb diet for forever now and she's finally
doing that and she's killing it with it.
And she's eating ample protein. She's up to 2000 calories a day.
She weighs about 100 and 10115 lbs, So getting ample nutrition
in there and she's recently started weight training, which
I'm also super proud of her for. But I feel like a lot of women
that are in the aging demographic have this resistance
to weight train if they weren't brought up doing that.
So how do you kind of structure the conversation around teaching
them the benefits of, hey, look, you're not going to look like
Arnold Schwarzenegger in two weeks.
How is this going to benefit you from a longevity standpoint?
Like what does that conversation look like?
I mean, one thing that we have to think is how do they want to
age? People can appreciate, like you
said, you can sit in the you get to sit in the front row of
aging. You get to see how your parents
age and that is typically striking enough to make people
pivot. And understanding that it's it's
really critical to re evaluate how you go forward and you have
to understand that muscle is like your body armor and you
have to put in the effort now before it becomes a liability
later. You pull, you put in the effort.
You know skeletal muscle is metabolic currency, It's your
health currency. It cannot be bought, it cannot
be sold, it cannot be bargained for.
It has to be earned. You have to build strong muscle
because it's not that you want to train to get better at
exercising, you want to train because you want to become more
functional. You want to be able to go on a
flight and put your suitcase up. You want to be able to get out
of your car, get off the toilet, get off the ground, pair your
groceries. If you fail to train for
everyday life, you will lose the capacity to do these things.
Totally agree. A lot of people that are older
feel that it is nearly impossible to build more lean
tissue at that stage because they just simply haven't been
doing it. As their hormones change, as
they age, as their ability to synthesize muscle protein
shifts, what what does the research show in their ability
to build more lean tissue if they are consuming ample
nutrition, ample protein, and providing ample stimuli through
that training load? That women, that men and women
easily at 75 years old, there's data to support that they will
build muscle so it's never too late.
It is never too it is never too late, which is is incredible
that 7585 years old that they can improve strength and
hypertrophy regardless of the age.
Yeah, I was hoping you'd say that.
I totally agree. Talk to me about your book.
What was the what was the motivation for writing this
book? How is this different than any
other books out there? Just kind of give me some back
story on the book. Yeah, I'd love to.
People believe that we have an obesity epidemic.
I don't think that we do. We do not have an obesity
epidemic. What we have is a muscle crisis.
We have a midlife muscle crisis. And when you think about all
these diseases of aging, we think about that they're caused
by obesity. But the cause, one of the
primary causes of obesity and all of these metabolic diseases
is unhealthy skeletal muscle. And that's really the framework.
And that's the beginning. And this book shatters every
paradigm about thinking about obesity.
It talks all about skeletal muscle health from a medical
metabolic perspective that is easy for everybody to read, and
it will shift the entire paradigm of thinking we don't
have an obesity epidemic. The the issue is the skeletal
muscle that we have ends up over time when it is sedentary and
fueled incorrectly, will end up looking like a marbled stake
rather than a filet. This happens decades before
someone becomes obese, decades before any of these issues
happen. And this book.
We know. When I wrote this book, there
really was. There was two reasons why I
wrote this book. When I was in my fellowship
doing geriatrics and nutritional sciences at Washoe, I fell in
love with one of these participants, and she was a mom
in her mid 50s. She'd had three kids.
She'd cycled with the same 20 to 30 lbs her entire life.
She did exactly what the medical community had told her to which
was eat less and exercise more. And what ended up happening is I
was looking at the interface between brain function and body
composition. And so I imaged her brain.
This is part of the research I was doing, and her brain in her
50s looked like an Alzheimer's brain, looked like the beginning
of an Alzheimer's brain. And it was so devastating, and I
felt so deeply responsible that I failed her, the medical
community had failed her, that the messaging had failed her,
that I started obsessively thinking about it.
And I started to think about the patients I was seeing in the
nursing home, the patients I was seeing in the dementia ward, the
patients I was seeing in the hospital.
And I realized that the one thing they had in common was not
that they were over fat, it was that they were under muscle.
And it wasn't that they had an obesity problem, it was that
they had a muscle problem. And that is why I wrote the
book, to protect the next generation, to protect this
generation. And I wrote the book or my
mentor Doctor Donald Layman of 20 years who you know again as
one of the world leading protein and muscle experts, has taken me
under his wing and taught me. And so the book is dedicated to
him and I wanted to take all the bench side research, put it in
an evidence based, easy to read layman book.
I love it. I'm certainly excited to read it
for people that want to kind of have a proxy like some people
need like an eye opening moment that brings clarity to their
life and the fact that hey, look, this is not the ideal
lifestyle. This is not people even realize
how sick they are because it's just become a chronic situation.
They just accept that as the norm.
What is a good proxy for people that are listening to just be
objective in whether or not they need to take more of a priority
to building and preserving lean tissue?
Like, is it an MRI scan? Is it just simply being
objective on how you feel and function throughout the day?
Like, what do you recommend for people that are not so much in
the health and nutrition space, but just the everyday person to
just have a an awakening moment of like, hey, this is the
reality of the situation. This is what your body is
telling you. This is what needs to be done
about it. Yeah, there's really two ways I
look at that physical strength. Are you physically strong?
How many push ups can you do? How many sit ups can you do?
How many or not sit ups? You know, it can be push ups.
It can be squats. How long can you hang on a bar
for? What is your deadlift or how
much are you moving if you're not someone who is in the the
gym lifting free weights? How much are you moving on the
machine? How strong are you?
You know how strong you are. Are you happy with that
strength? What is your strength going to
look like in five years if you continue the habits that you're
doing and then Fast forward to What does your blood work like
look like? What is your insulin?
What is your glucose? Show me those markers.
What is your triglycerides? What is your APOB?
Show me your fasting sugar. Show me your hemoglobin A1C.
All of these are markers of skeletal muscle health.
Then yes, right now we have access to a DEXA.
Eventually we'll have something available called a deuterated
creatine AD 3 creatine study. We don't have that yet.
AMRI is not financially feasible for many people.
So the DEXA is the best that we're going to have.
So go ahead and use that. You can use an in body scale and
you track it, use the same thing, same hydration, same
time. And that's how I would look at
it. I would look at the strength, I
would look at the markers and then I would look at the
objective physical body composition aspects.
Totally. What is your recommended minimal
viable dose or most bang for your buck approach to training
in that demographic that is just simply trying to get healthy?
Is it like a basic simple compound movements, variable
resistance training using something like the the X3 bar
and bands? I know you recently had him on
the podcast like how? How would you structure that for
some of us getting into this? Well, one it that is, it really
just depends on where the person is.
I think that we have to think about how do we train to get
better at life. And again, it it fully depends.
In an ideal world if someone had been training, I would really
like to add in some kind of high intensity interval training.
That doesn't mean doing sprints. It could be an Airdyne bike.
It could be something very safe, something that really challenges
that cardiovascular system, that really challenges that full body
capacity, that anaerobic system. So I do think that there is a
huge benefit to that type stuff. There's huge benefit.
And then also having some kind of heavyweight, whether it is
kettle bells, whether it is again a squat, again, it really
depends on the person. But three days?
A week of heavy resistance training?
Again, if someone is older, they can do lighter weights and more
reps having one kind of high intensity interval session
again, it could be 10 minutes. And you know the the next thing
that I would think about is kettle bells, carries those
kinds of things. Yeah, functional type movements.
Yeah. Yeah, I was, I was diving into
some research and it looks like, you know, you've got the
hypertrophy, you've got the strength component, you've got
the cardiovascular conditioning. But of all of those, explosivity
is one of the first things that we lose as we aid to doing
movements that really focus on the explosive nature and the
range of motion. So like something as simple as,
you know box jumps, which may not be feasible for people right
now, but something they could work towards.
But just simply working on the explosive factor is one of the
things that you really want to privatize as you age 'cause
that's the 1st to go. Yes.
And also, I love that you said that.
What about being able to have some kind of plyometric landing
in terms of if they fall? Yeah, totally.
Push up very much agree A. 100% I want to kind of shift the
conversation and talk a little bit about mindset and
psychology. Like for you personally, do you
feel that you are doing your calling in life?
Like is this fulfilling your purpose?
It seems as though that's the case, but I'm.
Curious as to like. How you know that to be the case
and how you? Know.
Oh my gosh, are you kidding? I was uniquely positioned and
groomed for this. What are the chances that I
graduate high school early and my godmother is one of the
founders of functional medicine? What are the chances of that?
Then I decide I'm going to study nutritional sciences and I land
in the lab of one of the world leading experts who made the
discovery that we all stand on today about protein distribution
and recommendations. What are the chances of that?
I mean, that's extraordinarily unusual.
That then trained and mentored me, who continues to mentor me
over 20 years later. And not only that, it is an
obsession for me. It is not it.
I I love reading about it. I'm going to tell you something
that I don't think I've ever seen on a podcast.
I love reading about amino acids.
That's pretty nerdy. I.
I love reading about the way in which amino acids work, the way
in which protein works. It is, I mean, so fascinating
and the desire to share that it feels like it's a
responsibility. So do I believe that I am living
my purpose? There is no one else that is
uniquely positioned that has had the mentorship that I've had or
the education right. The education is incredibly
unique that I have been given. And the other last piece is it's
not about me, it truly is about the message.
It is not about the messenger because I I think that that
always keeps me humble and my husband who is a former Navy
SEAL is a very service oriented servant leader and I it is the
way that we operate as a unit and our belief of what we put
out into the world. I think that last component is
key because I I resonate with everything you just said.
I feel like I am most certainly doing my calling in life and I'm
uniquely positioned to do so. And for people like you and I
that have that degree of certainty and confidence that we
are waking up with purpose and intentionality, it makes going
through the day-to-day struggles somewhat effortless because you
know what the bigger purpose is. But knowing that you're doing it
for others and that you are just a messenger is key.
Adding more value than you take is paramount.
I feel like if you were to do all this selfishly or if I was
to do all this selfishly, they would not be the foundational
base that needs to exist in order to sustain the day-to-day.
But for people that have not yet found that calling, they don't
know their purpose. I think simply from a health
standpoint, recognizing that they can be a better service to
others, enrich the quality of life of those around them, have
more quality time with their friends, with their children,
with their grandchildren, as their age.
Like if you have that as the motivating factor as to why you
should prioritize your health, ample protein consumption,
resistance training. It makes the struggle of getting
up and going to the gym or putting the right food on your
plate so much more easy. Yeah, you know, and certainly
also having community. Yeah.
And having people that hold you to a higher standard, you know,
in our house, and what we talk about a lot is that you don't
set goals. You set standards for the way in
which you execute your life. You set standards for what you
believe, what you will tolerate, what you believe are the right
things to do. And when you set standards for a
way of operating, then you rely on your standards over your
feelings. You rely on your standards over
your discipline. You rely on your standards over
your flexibility and that allows you to move forward.
I agree. I feel like we live in a society
that values moderation and flexibility and balance, and
I've always said that balance is bullshit.
Like I I like having non negotiables in life that you
don't ever deviate from. And if you structure those in a
way that propel the overall trajectory forward, you're not
likely going to deviate. And while you may not make
substantial progress on the day-to-day, you are still making
progress. And that, compounded over time,
is what leads to a truly successful in fulfilling life.
Wonderful. I totally agree with that.
Out of curiosity, you said you have two kids.
How old are they? Three and almost so Three,
almost 3 and 4 1/2. OK, so this is a somewhat
selfish question because I have a year and a half year old as
well. Or now and anytime I bring some
on the podcast that has children and they know the importance of
eating quality food and that's the kind of food they bring to
their home. How do you navigate the waters
of what they're eating outside the home when you don't have
control of the groceries? Like how do you kind of
structure that? Yeah, it's really challenging.
I try to minimize any kind of drama, you know, it's it's just
very challenging. We teach them what is healthy.
We teach them what is unhealthy, but we want to make it so if
they go to a birthday party, they're not the weird kid that
can't have something. So again we say, oh wow, do you
think that that's a healthy choice or this?
But we we certainly don't restrict and we also don't have
junk in the house. Yeah, I think that's key.
Like finding a you know, what you provide for their
environment within the home is totally up to you.
But then as they go out into the world, you can't rule them with
an iron fist. The rest of life they're just
going to rebel and no one wins. Right, totally agree.
Well, I know you're short on time.
You got a busy schedule, but I am super grateful for your time
for this podcast and I'm incredibly excited about your
book. I do love the Paradigm Shifters.
I do love those that go against the grain.
It's it's live now, right? People can.
Yeah, so they can get it on Amazon.
It's called Forever Strong. It was an instant New York Time
bestseller. It outsold Atomic Habits, and it
outsold Arnold Schwarzenegger's book in his first week.
Very cool, very cool. And where do people go to find
out more about you independent of the book?
They can go to my Instagram or my website Doctor Gabrielle
Lyon. I have a great podcast as well.
We have a YouTube with a great newsletter that gives tons of
free information they can and also when does this come out
actually? Just a few weeks.
I'm not super ahead on my podcast.
Oh wonderful. I have a summit in Austin,
January 13th and 14th, and it's a forever strong summit.
Love to have you there and it's going to be incredible.
Awesome. I will certainly see if I can
make it. Are you going to the Metabolic
Health summit? I will not be able to go this
time. All right.
Well, hopefully I'll see you in Austin then.
Yes, we'd love to have you so you can message me separately
and I I would love to get you a ticket to that.
Sounds great. Well, Doctor Gabriel Line, I
certainly appreciate the time. I appreciate all you're doing
for the space and for the health of just everybody out there.
So keep fighting the fight, keep doing what you're doing.
And if there's everything I can do to help, by all means, just
let me know. Thank you so much.
Thank you my friend. Take care.
Have a good one. OK.
Bye.