Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com.
And today, I've got special, guest, Mike Collins on the line,
he owns the website sugar addiction.com, and we talked
about sugar addiction, he has struggled with sugar addiction.
Since she was a small child. He also struck with alcohol
addictions. We talked about that and how
they are related. How they're intertwined, and how
sugar can be viewed as an addiction, both from a
physiological standpoint, and from a psychological standpoint,
how some people are better as eliminators.
Some people are better as Traitors and how one can
navigate the Waters of Breaking Free of the cycle of sugar
addiction? I thoroughly enjoyed the
conversation. I've got no doubt that you will
as well. So without further Ado, sit back
relax and do the podcast with Mike.
We are live, Mike Collins, how are you sir?
I'm well, how are you today? I'm doing wonderfully?
Well, wonderful. Well, I want to dive into sugar.
Your book is all about sugar, your websites, all about sugar
and the addiction of sugar. But before we do that, man, I'd
love to kind of get some back story on you and what got you
interested in the removal of sugar in the first place?
Yeah, sure. I got the short version podcast
version, you know, I thought I grew up as a regular kid.
I think we all do, but come to find out, you know, we all of
us, I think. But me particular, my mom was a
sugar junkie, my favorite sugar junkie and kind of sad story at
the beginning. My grandma died, when she was
just eight years old. So they made a deal life.
Grant my grandfather, made a deal with her his cousin who own
the country store across the way he said anytime.
Juliet comes in. You just give her anything.
She wants that candy thing and it's great gesture.
For a eight-year-old, just lost her mom, but at the end of the
day, my mother really genuine, I think till the day, she died
believe that sugar was loved and we grew up that way.
We're just covered up. I mean we had unfettered access
to the Sugar Bowl. We I mean we could literally at
the end of the you know sugar we scrape off half an inch or a
quarter of an inch of sugar with the the milk and and I anything
else in, I mean, it was just sugar sugar.
Sugar is a great YouTube video, Eric Clapton a great guitar
player sitting with Ed Bradley of 60 Minutes in his seven
million dollar Antigua treatment center.
And Ed Bradley says to hear Eric Clapton, he says, oh Eric.
This addiction thing is started with Heroin, right?
And goes, no, Ed. It started with sugar, he said,
I used to cram bread and butter and sugar sandwiches in myself
when I was five and six years, And we used to eat bread and
butter and sugar sandwich. My mother taught us that
because, you know, when there's no food around, we would were
alone. We need bread and butter, and
sugar sandwiches. Anyway, fast forward, I run into
beer at 14, 15 years old and I knew that beer changed my state.
This is important pin in the conversation.
I knew that I could tell, I was shy, I could talk to girls, you
know, we drink behind a high school and I go in and be able
to talk to girls. So I knew that beer was changing
my state. And I'm an open book.
I can talk about all that if you want but you know, fast forward
about 28 and I get sober. That's pretty good party in
between but, you know, the but basically I did what a lot of
drinking folks and a lot of people in recovery do and a lot
of people in life who don't have the alcohol issues, I went right
back to the sugar and man it was it was rough.
I mean II was More obsessive than the drugs and alcohol.
I swear, you know, my face was a mess with acne and in my 30s it
was crazy. I read a book called sugar Blues
back, then guy. William Duffy Duffy was married
to the famous movie, star Gloria Swanson, right?
And they promoted that book pretty heavy in the early 80s
and I went on to like, you know, quit sugar.
Eventually I had some mentors but I really ended up raising my
kids. Sugar-free somehow I talked my
wife into time and into having sugar free kids, no sugar, no
flour. No, caffeine in the womb until
there were six years old and then never in the house just
outside birthday parties. And yeah, so it was and they
know the kids always said, dad, you should write a book about
sugar. I want to have a regular
business career. I didn't like this wasn't ever
my career for most of my life and about 10 years ago.
Picked up the domain sugar addiction.com and I was putting
out really good information but it was still part time and it
wasn't till I was little semi-retired.
That I started coaching and building online communities and
stuff that it really took off. And I started to really in the
book came out. And so yeah, that's how I got
here. I mean that's kind of the short
version that usually brings up more questions than answers.
But yeah, yeah. I want to I want to dive into
sugar as an addiction for sure because I feel like, you know,
with alcohol Halt or drugs or things of that nature like
people inherently know. Okay.
This is probably not good. It's not optimal, it's not
healthy. Like I'm probably kind of, you
know, deviating from what is a true straight North trajectory
by, you know, dabbling heavily in drugs and alcohol, where's
with sugar? Like people just think of that
as food more often than not and it's never really, you know,
there's never this negative connotation that surrounds it.
So for you it seemed like you were just brought up that way
your siblings struggling with all this as was it more so you
Well, you know, I don't go with my siblings, listen to these
kinds of things, but, you know, they deal with the alcohol
still, you know, genuinely and and, you know, all of them
actually, and so, yeah. I mean, it was my father was an
alcoholic. So I, you know, we grew up in
that atmosphere. It's interesting because, you
know, they've called sugar the good girls do you don't be
sexist in any way, but it's just true, and it's true in all my
groups as well. You know, the men grew.
Drinking and women were eating sugar, right?
And you're right that Society, it's really only been in the
last five years, that the science, the brain science.
The addiction science has really proven the fact that this drug
and I do call it, a drug hits, the nucleus accumbens and the
dopamine serotonin norepinephrine.
All of your, you know, your feel-good chemicals.
Almost not almost the same. I'm way the exact same way as
drugs and alcohol when you put you in someone in an MRI as the
food companies, do literally weaponizing this product against
us and adding it to 75% of foodstuffs because they know
that it makes you feel a little bit better for a few minutes.
You know, it's, we're pounding 21, tsp average, anybody with
any habitat, all mean a Coke is 12 for god, sakes.
I mean, anybody with any habitat, all is Is doing 30, 40
teaspoons a day and, you know, literally since childhood,
they've never had an opportunity to be free of this stuff.
And again, in the last five years, the explosion in the
brain science has proven that it's the doing the same thing as
alcohol and drugs. It is it is frustrating to see
how how companies you know are so motivated by money.
That's like the pretty pretty devious towards the ignorant
concerning Zoomer. I mean just all the different
names of sugar on a label. Like there's there's consumers
that probably are trying to avoid sugar and they look and
say there's no sugar in there supposedly but they don't,
they're not familiar with the, you know, dozens of us
alternative names for it. So they kind of get caught in
the Trap and next thing you know they're just you know, bended on
more sugar and high fructose corn syrup.
Now you're so right there 75 different names for sugar and it
just it looks healthy, you know, on a health food package or
whatever Akito pack is these are funny.
You know where the supposed to be quote, unquote keto, or
whatever, it doesn't matter. I mean it's all hidden and it's
all added sugar, right? It really is difficult to
separate cleave apart. What we call drug foods and
Whole Food real. Feel food, you know, on the
outside of the grocery store. Very difficult.
And this is I mean, I don't think we can get out of a
problem. Robert, until we figure out how
we got in the problem, right? And the story is really pretty
simple World War Two, they had to have K rations.
They create a k rations that were potable and portable for
the troops. And a lot of companies sprung up
just like Munitions companies and so when the war ended they
needed a business thing, right? Like, you know, the other
people, they started making cars or steel or something, but the
food producers, the k-ration produces started, creating
products that would go on the shelf that would make life in
that. That time easier for the mom,
for the stay-at-home mom in the 50s and this just progressed to
the food industry that it is that we see today.
I mean, before the 50s and 60s, we didn't, we almost see a twill
whole regular food. I mean, meat Seafood.
Foods vegetables, its roots with him and now, you know, 75% of
the food contains sugar, and that's only accelerated since
the 80s and 90s and so it really is a simple problem.
But the problem is is no, not too many people alive or cooking
or whatever, who understand the separation.
And people just really believe that this is food.
The things that you see in a bag or box in a can that is
shelf-stable for years. Well, you know, whatever a year
is really not a food. It's a, it's a product made in a
factory and so that's the hard part and and you know it's hard
to separate that today in today's society but I think
we're on our way. I'm very optimistic.
Yeah, it's crazy. Because there's so many foods
out there or products. I guess is a better word that,
you know, at first glance you would never assume our associate
with a Product like bread for instance, you know, look at a
loaf of bread and assume that it's kind of a lot of sugar in
there. But he turned the label over,
it's got a ton of sugar in there and there's like sugar is not
something that's found in high concentrations in most in
nature. I mean, there's fruits for sure.
But even the fruits that are out there, we've altered genetically
to have much more fruit bearing, you know, flesh and higher sugar
concentrations. So it's just very very out of
line with what you know, Natural Evolution would have created
from a sugar. ER, concentration standpoint,
what you're hitting my, what's the way to label this?
This is the biggest push back. If not one of the biggest
pushbacks, that I get this idea of the fruit that's been
hybridized for 300 years and there is, and just for your
audience, is an important part of the conversation in that half
of the front, half of the sugar table, sugar molecule is
fructose and half is glucose. We all know what.
Coast is doing to the body. You know, I diabetes and raising
your insulin and that kind of stuff.
But little is known or less is known about the fructose part of
it. Now, this is fructose.
That is definitely reduced to a white powder.
It's been processed, but nonetheless, a glass of orange
juice is going to hit the liver in the exact same way of
Coca-Cola. Same amount of fructose, and
fructose cannot be digested anywhere, but the liver, the
can't be processed anywhere. It It has to be processed in the
liver. And so we end up with fatty
liver disease, just like that story that I told you before the
1980s, if you had fatty liver disease, you you were an
alcoholic. There was no other way to get
it. But now 45% of the United States
or the population has fatty liver disease and the beginnings
of fatty liver disease. And it's a it's because of the
sugar. We have an epidemic of five.
Six year olds, with fatty liver disease, it's kind of crazy and
the hybridize fruit. Like, if you think back there is
absolutely no human bodily requirement, that requires
fructose. Not exactly sure.
It's kind of a holdover from the Plant World and the evolutionary
process of being able to disseminate the seeds and
personally I believe it's an addictive substance that we
were, you know, made To ingest so that we would spread the
seeds. But if you think back just 300
years ago, we ingested fructose once, or twice a year when
things were ripe and we would eat that fruit or if you wanted
to get risk, get stung by a bee, a little bit of honey.
That's it a year, right? I mean, there's actually a
disease in the books called fructose malabsorption and
fructose intolerance two of them.
They're trying to change the His butt and and people don't
realize this disease even exists, right?
And so Fork Tous, if you want to really hone in on this problem
is why a there's so much problem fatty liver and all that kind of
stuff. But be is why we can't quit
because of its effect on the nucleus accumbens.
So it's a I like podcasts robber because it gives me an arc, it
gives me an arc of time Time we don't have a meat as murder or a
friends. Don't let friends drive.
We don't have like a sound bite that just makes this all makes
sense. So, takes a little bit of time
to set it all up, so I appreciate you having yeah,
totally, totally. So I want to talk about, you
know, different trends, that that people have studied.
It's been through, you know, a lot of epidemiological research
and and meta-analysis people have looked at, you know, the
charts as to what the, the average consumption of sugar is
for instance, and The obesity rate is and things of that
nature and correct me if I'm wrong with the latest research
has shown a decline in Sugar lately at the Obesity epidemic
continues to rise and people are beginning to think that it may
be more more correlated to that of heavily processed seed oils
and vegetables you think that's playing a major role as well.
I do, but the reduction I believe you do.
The dive into the research is in the sugar-sweetened Beverages
and everybody's kind of on board with that.
And so, but people aren't realizing.
As you mentioned earlier, how much sugar there getting in the
added, the additives in their food products, right?
And so, but I'm 110% with you on the seed oils.
I think that the inflammation in general but the seed oils for
sure Is part of it but also like we mentioned that the the sugar
is spread out over, you know, the food products, and the I
don't think the can't. I know for a fact, if this is,
you know, easy to look up that the candy consumption went up
during the pandemic. As people were locked in a
lockdown and nervous about their emotional states, which we'll
get to. I hope because it's a big part
of why people Quit way, how sugar affects their emotions,
but the reduction really has been in the sugar-sweetened
Beverages. And even for the first time
ever, the food pyramid came out last year and they've changed it
every five or 10 years or something.
And they said, children below to should never have any added
sugar and Below 5 shouldn't have.
No sugar sweetened beverages, so that was a positive, but yeah.
Has been it's a little deceptive.
When you look at the sugar numbers going down, it's not
really total. I mean, it is total it because
the sugar sweetened beverages were Peak.
They peaked about five or so, I think five or ten years ago.
I can't remember exactly when and that was a count counting
for a lot of it. So it's been, it's pretty
depressing to want down like a baby Island, a grocery store and
see how much of the products like what percentage of the
products for, you know, infants has Massive bolus of sugar in
there. I mean, if you look at it, I
mean, like the gestational diabetes and everything going on
now, you know, from from mothers that are consuming way too much
sugar during pregnancy. Like, it just, it's just a
downward spiral. It's just that's hurts my heart
and that's the scary part, you know, kids.
They don't mean to be cruel. I don't think when they're
young, they're trying to front, you know, hang out with their
friends or whatever. But when, when there's an
overweight child, it's really hard on the kids, over their
lifetime as they grow up. I mean, I was a kid there wasn't
we have a high school 3,000 people and I think there was
maybe too obese people and very few overweight people.
I mean it's really been an evolution.
It now is mirrors. The adult numbers as far as
overweight and obese children. And yeah, you're I mean, we are,
I'll show you say addicting. And I don't, you know, people
don't like my drug analogies but tough toenails at this point,
you know, we are addicting our children younger and younger to
these products because they're they're learning, you know, your
mom, she's grown, you know, she's busy, she had kids, she
had A job and so when you were upset, she would hand you a
cookie. She literally used it and use it
to use these products to manage your emotional state, right?
Drugging our kids earlier and earlier and like you say I mean,
there's it's it. We got to work to find baby food
without sugar in it. You mean you have to be AB
special stuff, pay more money, ordered online, whatever you
really do. And and and it even goes to
formula. I mean The cornstarch in the
snow, whatever all kind of powdery stuff in there.
Not necessarily sometimes sugar, but there is even actually sugar
and some formulas. So, yeah, that's I think that's
criminal to be honest with you. I just don't think it's, you
know, up to five years old, and probably Way Beyond.
But up, to 5 years old, we, I have 110 percent responsibility
for what are chilled, what goes in our children's miles and
sugar shouldn't be one of them now.
Even according to the US government's.
So what was that like for you? Are you raising your kids
without sugar until they were? He said six.
And then at that point, they just had it like once a month or
so I've ever tasted. Yeah, it was an absolute War.
We fought against their own grandparents, they're the
parents of the kids, the Montessori schools, the regular
schools. Everyone thought we were
depriving them of some kind of like childhood or something,
which is just ridiculous. And that then they would end up
In revolting afterwards, none of which happened.
So and it's still this way, the fastest growing little thing we
ever did was this little Facebook group of sugar-free
kids where moms are trying to do this.
And the same thing is happening, the same thing, the same
societal reception or lack of reception when you try and say
look, we're at a birthday party but we brought our own snacks
and la blah, blah, you know, they just they want to fight you
on it. And This is the beginning.
Robert of a he a tectonic shift in understanding.
It's like seat belts in cars drinking and driving smoking and
whatever it really is science. Now says that this is what I
like to say, the right side of History this is going to happen
in probably our lifetime at least we'll be able to see
around the corner with the changes will be and children and
I do believe this that Should have an ID and, you know, if you
want to give it to your child when you know at home that's
fine. But they shouldn't be able to
walk into a store and get candy and and soda it's just you know
it the science is proving this pretty solidly now and and and
for the first time like I said there's also a study came out
actually a cooperation first time in history for medical
associations agreed. On this know.
Vote. No sugar sweetened beverages
below 5 years old. American Dental American
Pediatric, Dental bunch of them and that never happened in
history. And so it's going to happen.
It is happening, you know? I like this quote, the future is
not here. The future is already here.
It's just not evenly distributed and the awareness is just not
there yet. You know, we're just not aware
of most people are not aware of this, the the ravages of the
sugar stuff. What is it?
Like, Practical tips that people listen to, this can take them.
And there's a lot of people that I talked with that want to, you
know, have a sugar free environment for their kids, but
like, when they take them to their grandparents or thing that
that's when it gets tricky, because you get a shred that
water and try and hurt me feelings, but at the same time
like you? I mean, it's like what do you
do? I mean, what do you what do you
do? You know, it's a great question.
It's a fair question because it's the same as adult for
adults. The same thing.
Same exact worries, about food pushers, and oh, I baked this
just for you and blah, blah, blah.
It is a societal construct. We have these four core pillar
video things and it is a one of the core videos.
It's like it's a societal acceptance level.
That is so high. And so unknown that you can't,
you know, it's almost like you can't fight it.
The only way to fight it is like almost anything in life.
I'm I read a little bit about your stuff.
You know, you guys are into the weightlifting and kind of stuff
and and it was like until you join that crowd, that new tribe
of folks that wanted to build their body up and hung with
them. You know, you got pushed back.
It's all about joining a new trial.
Tribe. A new group of people who have
done their own research who's found the science so that you
can, you know, not be swayed by the.
And I don't want to say ignorance but just the not yet
knowing that the rest of the population still is under the,
you know, the misconceptions about it because it's early.
They don't know, you know, people like me and there's lots
like me and we do these Summits every year.
There's lots of Educators it. Just not well.
Known. And so until that time in order
not to feel isolated in order, not to be actually say, you
know, ostracized or even if you are ostracized because people
get kind of Nance T really? You know, when you don't eat the
food that they prepared or you you know don't go with the
program because the desert came out at the restaurant or
whatever. They they're like oh I'll put
the record books away, you lost 50 pounds.
You can have a A little some folks can't moderate
biochemically about a third of people cannot ingest this
product without creating cravings and and you know, quote
unquote fallen off the wagon and just going on a binge in a run
for a long time and gaining all their weight back.
It's just by it's a biochemical thing.
It's not anything to be ashamed of.
But again, this is not common knowledge yet so we have to keep
spreading the message. What do you think?
What do you what would you say to those people that can have
sugar with absolutely zero issue?
Like where should they is? It kind of like the same thing
as you know people that can drink alcohol with zero issues
and be able to moderate that like more power to you?
Yeah. Yeah.
No we love those. No.
Actually we all hate those people.
These beasts us guys, who can't ingest it without it there
normies there. You know, they have that in the
alcohol where like you say they can have a glass of wine and
leave half of it sitting there. Are you like what the hell?
I could never leave a half, a beer, have anything and most,
not everyone. But you know, the people that
have alcohol, issues are issues with sugared biochemically, they
can't either. And some people can eat have a
brownie and leave it sitting there and you're kind of staring
at him, like how do they do that?
And so, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's an interesting shows, a
cross-section of people, everyone's a little bit
different but people who are In that about a third of people
that can't shouldn't be ashamed. And I think that's the message
we want to get out there. They shouldn't be worried about.
It just is, it's like you're, you know, you're taller, you're
short and dark hair or light hair, blue eyes or brown eyes.
It just a thing, you know. And we happen to evolve into a
society that has this in it and once you understand it, it's
hard to go back. Yeah, it'd be one thing.
If like, your life was inherently better with sugar.
Like if there was if there was something in Sugar that made you
better then I would I would feel it important to figure out how
to have a healthy relationship with it so that right, I
couldn't good way but it's a great point.
There is nothing that benefits from increased Sugarman.
Your body is able to create whatever glucose is necessary to
for your brain to function, like there's no need for them.
And I've been doing keto now for Years.
I haven't had a carbohydrate based Mia with any sugar in six
years and I'm continuing to thrive and that's that's not an
uncommon story that happens all the time and I just don't
understand why people feel like they have to have it.
Well, you said it very interesting phrase right there
half to have it. And that phrase, you know,
people don't like my transposing, the addiction
recovery World, peer recovery harm reduction, these kind of
things for my cure or my remission of sugar addiction
issues, right? But the true fact of the matter
is, is people do have to have it.
Meaning that they they're not looking for a sweet treat.
They are looking for a dopamine hit and the body will go to any
lengths, illicit sex, illegal drugs, it will do anything that
it's been trained to do, you know, in cooperation with the
brain and the rest of the body to get that dopamine hit and
that's what we've trained, our children ourselves to do.
And now the science is proving This very clearly on MRIs and so
it's it really is again, a large gigantic awareness education,
process process and progress. Because like you say, I know
thousands. Now of people who tell your
exact same story, who used to be carbohydrate addicts and sugar
addicts, they couldn't stop. They I mean hundred 200 pounds,
overweight losing limbs going blind and they still couldn't
stop. They were physically emotionally
spiritually, mentally addicted to sugar, and it's a bigger
problem than people think for a small percentage, are certain
percentage of the population. So yeah, I mean it's a it's like
I said I happy to have you that you're having me on so that we
can get this message out further.
Well, let's dive into the psychology of it.
Then what do you think like with any other addiction?
You think the best way for people to go bad is to kind of
go through a similar Step program or like sugars and sugar
Eaters Anonymous, or what's the know?
It's a good question. You know, I did come up through
that structure that I think it's probably the largest personal
development organization in the world.
Well, I know what it is. There's no if ands or buts about
it, but in this is a big butt and I consider myself a 12-step,
anthropologists have studied the deeply in the history especially
the food groups and the food groups did.
What's the right word anecdotally?
Work out this the problem not Overeaters Anonymous, Overeaters
Anonymous is wrong, is wrong in its approach, and they have such
thick dog. When that they can't change,
they refused to name their absence mean, you can eat sugar
and flour in that program and you can name it whatever you
want, use your absence but there's a certain for offshoot
programs that you know, met and Dusty Church basements.
That said no flour, no sugar. And some of them weigh and
measure. So anecdotally for 30 years,
they had some success, but a lot of people are not interested in
the spirituality of that program.
A lot of people are interested or not interested in the idea
that they you can't evolve because it is what it is either
in the book or it's not part of the deal.
And the science is exploding around this topic and so a lot
of people want to talk about the science.
So, the answer to your question is?
Yes, the good. Part is a good saying.
In the 12-step world, that says, take what you leave.
And we and take take what you leave and leave the rest, right?
So if you don't believe in God, it's fine.
But really, what the people are going there for is the
community. And I do believe at this
juncture science is not enough and knowledge is not enough like
this success of the 12-step stuff in the early years.
You really do need a Support group, who understands, what's
going on with you? Because of everything we've
discussed in the first half of this podcast of the social
nature of it, the food price, you know, everything in the it's
really, it's almost like you've become, you know, you're going
to have to it's going to feel like you're transporting
yourself to a deserted island and you're the only one there
because no one around you 90 plus percent of the people that
work with us. The people in their own family.
Their nuclear, family, their spouse, and their children or
whatever are not on board with this.
This idea, this process, this program of well, let's just try
and get off it for a little bit. See what happens, just as simple
as that. And experiment for 30 or 60
days. They're not into it.
They're saying, no. I like my candy whatever.
And so the answer to the question is along with
information and knowledge is to is support the founder, the food
addiction. To do it has a great line, it
says this needs an inordinate amount of support meaning you're
going to have to have people who get you and have been walk the
road that you're wanting to walk and can support you in it
because you're going to be ostracized a little socially and
even familial isn't the right word in your family.
You know, it's interesting because there's so many
different dietary belief. Oops and circles.
I mean you've got carnivore, keto vegan flexible dieting, the
mentoring that like there's there's all over all different
kinds and a lot of scientists look at that very critically and
they say, you know, the diet should not ever become a
religion. Let's just look at the research,
what does it show? And I can totally get behind
that philosophy. However, I mean humans are not
solely physiological there also psychological And I feel like a
lot of these dieting circles exist for the aspect to
community, man, that's that's why.
Like, veganism for instance has is so strong.
Like the research is pretty clear that a strictly
plant-based. Diet is probably not going to be
optimal from a bioavailability standpoint yet, vegans growing
strong because they had that sense of community.
And I think you know, if we're ever going to reach any
agreement on anything with with humans, you have to look at it
in a much more holistic manner. Inner taking into account the
psychology of why they're doing what they're doing and the
biology of what's actually working from a physiological
standpoint and I feel like the same holds true with what you're
consuming. So if people go into it with
this sense of community, I feel like there's a total, there's
obvious reason for that. Yeah, I know you're you know,
you're in the middle right there.
With that line, that statement that that of my huge, my largest
thought problem right now. Ma'am largest thought issue
because I don't have a problem, I don't want a name people's
diet, I want them to choose it. I happen to agree with you about
vegans and vegetarians. I think that they're I can tell
you a story of my Evolution through that through veganism
and through. Fruitarian it is and then and
really I think it was a step down from sugar addiction to be
honest with you. But that said the war is fake,
the war of veganism and carnivore and veganism and Kate
and Kane paleo on keto and vegetarianism is a fake War.
The real enemy is the processed food world.
And again, there's no long-term studies in the history will
prove. I think the the vegan stuff it's
a Long story. But you know, a lot of the
beginnings of the dietetic association came from The
Seventh-Day Adventist. The founders and everything.
So it's a, you probably know that story, but, and again, this
not my fight, I'm not in that fight, I'm not in that world.
I think both of them can recover from sugar and Pop I called
powder and diction processed food addiction.
I actually believe in this is First time ever said, this
publicly on a podcast but I believe that veganism is a step
towards the diet that you described and I lived it.
I've been through it, I had acne in my 50s, my gums had bled as
25 years in Robert flour. No flour, no sugar.
No caffeine, 25 years in and my gums are still bleeding.
I just got adult acne and I just finished a couple Of other
things to learn a little brain lapses, literally basal cells on
my, forehead diagnosed by a doctor, all of that, all of it
disappeared after I gave up fruit and Grains.
And so, you know, I think it's a step down.
I think it's an evolutionary part of the people who are
healing in the amount of people that have gone from vegan to
paleo carnivore or keto, kind of All and improve their health is
unbelievable. But and I say that with
trepidation, like I says, first time I ever said in public but
because I know that without the emotional healing in the
understanding that this is a substance use disorder.
Processed food, addiction sugar addiction is a process, a
process substance use disorder. It's not like anorexia.
XU or bulimia, they're not even related, those are process
addictions, like, gambling and sex.
This is actually a substance use disorder where people ingest a
substance. It affects them, emotionally
spiritually, their brain, reward chemicals, and then they crave
more of it, and they have to have it to their detriment.
Like I said, sometimes to hundreds of pounds overweight
and all kind of diseases, and they still can't stop that.
My friend is the definition of addiction?
Yeah I agree. Yeah.
What about so when people like you know I've talked to several
people that are much better at eliminating than moderating I
feel like you know you can't ever get an Eliminator like a
natural-born Eliminator to try and moderate.
It's just never going to end well for people that need to cut
it entirely. Yeah.
Is it just simply a matter of time that elapses between them
quitting it and then being comfortable with the fact
they're never going to have it again?
Or what's your take on that? No, it's just not true.
It really isn't. There is an emotional
rejiggering there is. So here's the the whole Crux of
our work and you know the crowning achievement I think of
us understanding this is that when I describe mom giving the
kid the cookie and pointing to the TV, we learn to manage our
emotions with this product. It's a ubiquitous damn Free
product that is available 24/7, everywhere, anytime and we are,
and we took advantage of the unconsciously took advantage.
No, no one did this consciously, but they came up.
And so when you stop and you cut it off, you literally have to
re-do how you do emotions, how you do feelings?
How you live your life and that's kind of harsh.
But it's true, the very common well known Construct in the
world of alcohol and drug recovery.
That if you started using alcohol and drugs at 14 or 15,
you stop growing emotionally. Very well-known.
It's like common knowledge in that world, but most people
never heard of it. And your finances are a mess,
your relationships are a mess, your career is a mess, you know,
your health is a mess because you use drugs and alcohol.
You you get to a problem and then you know 4:00 comes around
and you get drunk and the Was still there the next day and you
never dealt with it, right? Well, we've been doing this as a
society and as individuals with sugar and flour and processed
foods and caffeine since we were in the womb.
So when you stop, you literally go into a weird kind of shocked
withdrawals, you know, sadness Dark Night of the Soul,
depending on the level or size of your Habit in the mud.
How much you Use it and how much whole food you were drinking and
how much real water you were drinking.
Most people come to me and never drink water and imagine they
never drank water. They never drank water, they
drank soda or tea or coffee. And so, at that point you have,
you know, you've heard the researchers, it's public.
It's like it's like scientific lure.
It's like everyone who loses a bunch of weight in gains at all
back in the first year. And the reason is all diets
work. The paper they're printed on say
quit the white stuff so they restrict the white stuff for a
certain period of time exercise and end up losing some weight
but why they can't keep it off. That's 90% of people gained it
all back. And then some is because when a
divorce comes up, when a financial crisis, comes up, when
a covid comes up, people fall back to their go to emotional
management system, which has been run by flour and sugar.
Sugar since they were in the womb and again podcast, I park
for people to understand this lead it up with the discussion
that we had and then kind of cap it off with this idea that is
talking about all the other Concepts, we've talked about
much harder for people to understand and accept it until
they lived it and lived it with a guide.
Meaning, when you quit for three week, two weeks, and you're on
your Own here like starting to be weepy one day for no reason,
you know, you just don't understand what's going on with
you. And look, I mean, I don't want
to get too deep into the psychology of it all, but
genuinely stuff that you've stuffed down for years trauma,
abuse bullying. It doesn't have to be sexual
abuse or violence, sexual or physical violence, but anything
that You have not dealt with emotionally, will begin to
resurface again once you eliminate the product products
and that unguided is why people can never succeed on diets
quote-unquote and diet step require a lot of okay that's not
even a diet, the requires all diets are no flour, no sugar.
That's how you lose weight period end of story and every
99% of all diets are ever written says the same thing.
Got a bunch of other things around them like whatever some
food plan or some exercise plan, but at the end of the day,
that's what they say. And so when that happens folks
are like where am I? What is this world that I just
been transported to because I'm 21 days abstinent sugar and
flour and you know they can't handle a kid crying.
They can't handle a boss yelling.
They can't handle anything because they're used to going to
the candy machine to deal with that.
I know this is and can Stop me at this is getting crazy but
it's the real facts of, you know, tens of thousands of
detoxes that we've completed. Now.
People tell the same stories on the other side.
You know, they get 90 days, 120 days of 100% abstinence.
And they say to myself themselves, I can't believe.
I used to think this way they're literally and I'm getting heart.
I've been getting harder on this where People do literally don't
have the mental capacity, to make the decisions necessary to
abstain until they get 90 or 120 days in.
Then there's slapping their head going.
How could I have ever thought that?
I could stop using sugar every morning for 10 years and then
continue at 4:00 every day. How is this possible that my
brain was able to do that continuously over 10 years or Or
I don't know. I get on my soap, I'm sorry,
I'll get off. No, no, that makes sense.
I mean, I've talked to several people that it's always bothered
me that they can see incredible progress and then something will
happen. I won't hear from him for a
while, they'll go off the rails and then they're back worse than
when they started. And I mean, it's like The
Addictive mind and it's interesting, but it's sad to see
unfold firsthand for sure. Yeah, no.
It's hard as tough to watch it really is because it was like,
you know, 20, whatever I mean it's been over 30 35, now years
of recovery watching my family, my friends deal with a drug or
alcohol addiction, you know, in the sugar things the same.
I mean, I'm telling you just five minutes in my inbox, five
minutes on my instant messenger. These people with hundreds of
pounds to lose losing Limbs and they can't stop it.
They say they're going to die but they can't stop, they don't
drink, they don't and the most telling thing, Robert, the most
telling thing is, I was an anonymous guy about my drug and
alcohol, so my parents were alive.
I don't know why that mattered, but it did, I guess.
And, you know, I said, I never talked about my alcoholism.
So, when I started talking about it two or three years ago in
public, I had this huge flood of people who Had been 5 10, 15
years sober, who could not put down the sugar and to a, man, to
a woman, every single one of them said quitting, the sugar
was and is harder than the drugs that they quit and the alcohol
that they quit. These are people Savvy and
addiction have quit. You know what other people call
quote, unquote hard drugs, but they were never able to quit the
sugar and they had tried. They've been to the food groups.
They've been whatever someone been to treatment.
And they just still could put the sugar down, you know.
Yeah. What's your take on highly?
I mean really incredibly sugary tasting substances, like a lot
of these artificial sweeteners and even some natural sweeteners
that are not going to have near the impact from the glycemic.
Index standpoints, you're not going to get near the glucose or
probably not near the insulin response.
But you're still going to have that massive dopamine hit from
something like a u. Looks for instance.
Yeah. Not a fan and I'll tell you why.
Because of years of experience that it's like, Pavlov's dogs
wired together, fire together. What we're trying to move you
away from is that the taste of sweetness?
And once you give me and I liked your, you know, we work with
that turn. Those terms to a moderator and
abstainer, right? Some people can't moderate.
Some people have to be abstainers.
And so if you give it, if you give someone a hundred 90, or
120 days of 100%, abstinence macadamia nuts, taste like candy
peppers are Sweet carrots are sweet.
It's like we literally reset in all of our work, we try and
reset the natural taste buds and reception to sweetness back to
the original factory settings. And this is like those sweet
things and people don't like my drug analogies.
But people that have drank people that are have, they'll
get this. And and a lot of people now that
have recovered from Sugar addiction, they can get it.
To is like, if you're drinking beer, you're looking for
whiskey, you're drinking whiskey, you're looking for
cocaine, the same thing here, when your brand hits that
sweetness likely, like Pavlov's dogs, your concoction, whatever
it is, had the artificial sweeteners and the regular
sugar. So when your body gets the
artificial sweeteners, they start thinking about the real
thing and they want that dopamine that more powerful
dopamine hit and it's the Cravings that Trying to put to
rest the physical Cravings first and emotional craving.
Second, the work goes, very simply.
Let's get you off the stuff physically and then we spend the
next literally 365 days get you off the emotional and, and most
of our slips. Most of our recidivism happens.
When folks have what you're describing.
Oh was sugar-free candy or this, that and the other sugar-free,
the worst offenders. And I believe this to be true.
Sliding under the FDA rule with called natural flavors.
These are these flavored Waters, right?
Where you're seeing somebody pound in 10 a day and I'm like
that's because I believe in, you know, I'm trying to get a food
lab to take my business but they don't want to because their
business goes from the food industry.
They not going to bite the hand that feeds them is that.
I think there's fructose in it. I think there's crystalline
fructose in those things. There's at least the stuff the
substances you described in there.
Artificial stuff that makes it so terribly sweet.
Now, this is supposed to be flavored water or something is
terribly sweet. But we find that this is one of
the largest reasons of recidivism or following back or
falling out falling off. The wagon, is they tried these
things, you know, so it's really more, again, back to the brain
science than it is the physical. Yeah, no, I agree.
I feel like if someone can moderate the sweetness and it's
not an issue at all, you know, gravitating towards more of a
Natural, lower glycemic, index sweeteners, probably much much
better than just, you know, a lot of added sugars for sure.
But if someone has an addiction to that sweetness, that dopamine
hit, that comes with it, simply avoiding any, you know,
incredibly intensely sweet thing.
Regardless of the substance of sweetening it is probably going
to be key. It is, it is absolutely.
I mean, proven to us time and time again.
I just like everybody wants wiggle room.
Everybody wants to wiggle room and I know.
It's hard, what I'm proposing is hard but it's like any
experiment, like it, like the weightlifting if you're going to
like you don't expect to be big in like a week or two, right?
It's like got to give it a year. Gotta Give it six.
You know, you got to give it some time.
Same thing here. Your three four decades into
this thing and you're expecting a change like right away, both
your weight, and your health and everything right away.
So you kind of give it a little time and you got to give it.
I called that N1 experiment you Got to get it.
Like if you were to go to a doctor for a, what do you call
it a scratch test for an allergy, right?
It scratch it for ragweed and pollen all this stuff and see if
you're allergic to it, right? Well my scratch tests are
scratch, test is very simple, just give me 90 days or 120 days
of 100%. Absence of.
I'd say it's called, I'd say by into my keys little fantasy, 120
days of absent. And look, will refund.
All your misery of it doesn't work.
It doesn't work. If you don't find some kind of
change. If you do not happy with it will
give all your money but you know, it's kind of a joke, you
know. I'll refund your weight loss,
you know whatever yeah, yes I know it but no, it wasn't.
No, it's not, it's not a hard experiment and what we find the
early adopters are I was, is that the early adopters are kind
of pioneers anyway and whatever their life is you know out of
their first one to go to college the first one to be Excel at a
sport whatever, they were kind of pioneers anyway and they're
willing. To these early adopters, they
call it intact to jump out there and say, okay, I'll take you up
on your bet. Let's try it and then they
succeed. So yeah, no, I totally agree,
man. I think, I think this is
something that needs to be brought to the Forefront of
people's attention. Like for me, it's liberating to
know that no type of food substance or any substance has a
hold on me. Like if I had to point to
addiction, I have it would be probably training like weight
training like if I did not, wait train.
I would go crazy but I feel like I know that's a much healthier
addiction as far as addictions and go and they being a slave to
any type of food group. My Sam is walking and I have to
walk. I forget, two days in three
days, I'm I start to, you know, get a little squirrelly.
Yeah. And again I think it's a, you
know, it's a training of the true dopamine system.
You know, the one that's you were supposed to be the way that
you were supposed to be using the system because in 10 There's
about Lucien, we were active 10 hours a day, five hours a day,
in some way, shape or form and so it, you know, we didn't
really need any other, we didn't need a manual manipulation of
the dopamine with the drug and we didn't need something.
Because our body took care of all that.
You know, I think another really important factor is that if you
remove some type of you know, dopamine, hi you need to replace
that with something is like if like people don't like feeling
like They're sacrificing it. They if they take something away
they need to replace it with something.
So for me, like I used to struggle with with eating
disorders and what I found to be more rewarding was replacing
that with, you know, what I'm doing with business and
everything. Like, I feel like I'm making an
impact with my community, with a business with my brand.
And I get a higher high from that than I ever got from the,
you know, the, the selfish temporary high from binging on
foods. And I feel like I replaced one,
dopamine with a much better dopamine.
And that's that's given mine me. The ability to just, you know,
stand the test of time and keep doing and sticking with it.
Well, I can't agree more, I'm 100% and that's why people like
yourself need to continue to tell the story because it's not,
it's a very common construct in the world of alcohol and drugs.
Again K Street Washington d.c. nonprofits.
Big ones, you know big multi hundred million dollar kind of
stigma reduction For drug and alcohol stuff and their only
real PR work. It to spread the message.
Is that more people like yourself?
Tell the story because it's hard to see the other side of a
hundred pound weight loss. When you're weighing 100 pounds
extra, you know, you can't really tell until you talk to
someone. I always talk about the
proverbial person who lost 100 pounds or 200 pounds.
That person didn't talk about the food, they didn't talk about
the exercise. Talked about the emotional
management recovery system change, they had to go through,
they had to start dealing with things different, their parents,
their relationship, they think, life had to change in that realm
for them to stay off the sugar. So people are like, wait a
minute, what the hell's that got to do with food?
What's that got to do with my weight?
It has everything to do with your weight and the only way
that other people, get that information download is that
someone else tells them the story and you look at the
picture of them a hundred pounds ago, And they're standing right
in front of you at a normal sized body, right?
Or or a right size body for them.
I don't like the word normal. But yeah, I mean it you got to
keep telling the story and that's what the you know, our
work is about and obviously I can tell you our work is about
is to just keep telling the story because eventually people
ask me what's your business model like and I tell them I
sort for people who are ready because I'm not going to mention
anybody of anything and I'm not changing Did anybody there ready
to hear the message? So I just got to keep telling
the message. That's what it's all about, man.
Like once you see this I like you said yet, you feel you feel
like you've got your life back and so liberating that you're
compelled to share it with others.
And I mean when you're passionate about something like
that that passion seeps through in the messaging and people can
tell it you know. First first glance the first
time they're exposed to it like it's it's so incredibly
transparent that it's that's that's what people that's where
fulfillment in life comes from a my opinion.
Been able to do something and make a difference in other
people's lives because you're so passionate about it and they see
the success that you've experienced with it and they
want that for themselves and you help them achieve.
That that's what brings my life of a mood for sure.
Yeah, I mean Pete I always used to think guys like Tony Robbins
and whatever. You know, I had a career that
was focused on making money, right?
And I always thought this idea that they were just talking so
they could sell their programs that the better reward in life
is to help someone else do something they want to do and to
help them improve their life and have somebody come up to you
call you email, you testimonial whatever.
And I can affirmatively tell you, that's true, making money
or helping somebody the feeling of reward is much better helping
somebody and them understand ma'am, kind of percent when
you're fighting the good fight and brother, keep doing what
you're doing. Well, thank you.
I mean you're also keep it, you know, keep the message going in
your, you know, it all starts with it's funny because people
come to, you know, come to me. Me wanting to know an exercise
plan and a food plan, right? And then I have to kind of
download what we've been discussing a little bit and they
still kind of don't get it takes a while.
So I think a lot of people will be coming to you first for that.
So hopefully we can, you know, you can add this information to
your toolbox. Yeah, for sure.
Absolutely. Well, I'll definitely be taking,
you know, put it online and spread that information.
So that's that's what with of our intentions.
Where can people go to find out? More about you, in the So sugar
addiction.com, it's a good URL man.
You did right by getting that one.
I just bought sugar by probably, by the time of somebody's listen
to this later. I also get can go to Sugar
Detox.com. So I'm all in and this message.
Nice. And also if people are
interested the quit sugar Summit yearly has the biggest of the
big I mean lustig tubs how we had Judy Collins the famous
singer on last time because she's been off.
Sugar for 30 years so they know they can go there and check it
out twice a year. That's a lot of fun.
A lot, a lot of good information there.
So any of those places heck you had.
Yeah. Well Mike I can't thank you
enough for taking time to jump on here with me, man.
Like I said, you're doing what's right?
You're making a difference. So, keep doing what you're doing
and if there's ever anything I can do to help, just let me
know. Well, thank you for so much for
having me. I appreciate it.
Keep up the good work, absolutely take care.