Well, hello ladies and gents. Robert Sykes, QS savage.com.
And today I've got special guest James Swanak on the line and
we're going to dive deep into the wonderful world of sleep
optimization, the importance of wearing blue light blocking
glasses and other sleep packs you can do to optimize your
quality sleep. We also dive pretty deeply into
addiction. He is specialized in getting
people free of alcohol addiction.
He's been avoiding alcohol himself since 2010, I believe he
said possibly 2013 and he is had tremendous benefits that have
come from that. I'm actually one year pretty
much just shy of when you're having not had a drop about call
myself. I've noticed several benefits so
thoroughly enjoyed that portion of the conversation and then we
kind of switch gears and just dove into a mindset shift and
talked about addictive substances and dictancies in
general. What drives people to reach for
certain substances that they know aren't serving them well?
How to have a mindset shift to get away from that and improve
one's quality of life, Focusing on gratitude.
So really just a psychological component to the conversation
which I thoroughly enjoyed. I've got no doubt that you will
take something from this so that further delay, sit back, relax,
enjoy the conversation with James Swanick and we're live.
James, how are you Sir? Very well.
Thank you very much. I'm excited to be chatting with
you man. So I I perused on your website
just a tad prior to the call and you are an expert in both sleep
quality and overcoming alcohol addiction, but just addiction in
general it looked like as well, correct?
That's right. Yes.
Well, I want to tackle all three of those topics.
Let's start with sleeps. I think sleep is something that
oftentimes everybody knows it's important.
Everybody knows that they should optimize it.
But it's kind of like one of those things that oftentimes
gets swept underneath the road because it's easy to sweep under
the rug. So can you kind of give us some
background as to why that became a point that you wanted to dive
deeper into in the first place? Well, my sleep was OK, but it
wasn't great. And by that I mean I was wake
up. I would wake up feeling tired
and lethargic even if I had seven or eight hours sleep and I
was just perplexed as to why. Other times I would toss and
turn in the night. Sometimes I had trouble getting
to sleep. I wouldn't say I had.
You know, like devastatingly bad sleep, but it was just blah.
I was kind of average and in 2015 I saw a friend of mine
wearing a pair of very ugly orange lens to blue light
blocking glasses that were cut more like safety goggles.
And he was wearing them out to dinner at a nice restaurant.
And I thought, man, he looks ridiculous.
And then I I kind of challenged him.
He said, why are you wearing those glasses?
And he went on to tell me that he was trying to block the blue
light. That was coming out of screens.
You know, his cell phone and bathroom light, kitchen light,
microwave light, etc. And so I went back to my home in
Los Angeles at the time and I dug out an old pair of yellow
lensed ski goggles and I started wearing them as I watched reruns
of this TV series called Mad Men.
And I found that I did get sleepier because I was wearing
these stupid looking goggles. And so then I just decided, you
know what, I'm gonna dive into this a lot more.
I became somewhat of a sleep expert.
I then created my own stylish pair of blue light blocking
glasses and and started a sleep company called Swanic Sleep.
And that's how it really began. It was just more me having
mediocre sleep and seeing my friend wear a very ugly pair of
glasses and they kind of got me into the sleep world.
I remember when Dave asked, we started wearing those glasses
and everybody in the space was like looking at him like he was
a total goofball. And then it totally took hold
and now everybody seems to have a pair.
I've got three pair. Yeah, yeah.
But we, yeah, I exhibited my Swannies at Dave Aspie's
Bulletproof Conference back in 20.
When was it must have been 2016, Man, that was a while ago, yeah.
And. We had half of the attendees
weren't wearing our glasses by the end of it.
By the end of the second day it was crazy.
And that that was really like kind of like when the biohackers
got into it, got into that the blue light blocking world and it
kind of kicked off in 2016 and and my company kind of rode that
way for a couple of years and then the market was just flooded
with competitors and still is. And then you got cheap knockoffs
from China as well. But as far as I know, ours have
been the only. University scientifically
studied PAIR. The University of Washington did
a scientific study on him 2018 and showed the people who wore
him slept 12% better and performed 11% better the next
day. So it's the real deal.
Blue light blocking glasses, whether that you use our
products or someone else's, can you kind of dive into the actual
science and the mechanistic properties of why blocking blue
lights in the latter half of the day is that advantageous from a
sleep standpoint? Yeah, well, when the sun goes
down and darkness falls, that's when our body naturally wants to
prepare for sleep. It wants to turn on the
melatonin faucet, so to speak. Now the problem is that in the
modern world, we're exposed to artificial light from microwave
light, kitchen lights, speedometer light, McDonald's
golden arches, lights as you're driving down the freeway, the
freeway lights. And what happens is, is that
that artificial light stimulates our pituitary and Pinal gland.
And when our pituitary and Pinal gland is stimulated, it sends a
signal to our brain that it's still daytime.
So the body and the brain mistakenly believes it's still
daytime, so it does not turn on the melatonin faucet.
But naturally we want melatonin flooding through our system at
nighttime, right? That's the natural cycle.
But our brain is confused. Wait, wait.
Is it nighttime? Is it daytime?
It must be daytime, because I'm staring into the screen and my
pituitary and Pinal gland are being stimulated.
And so that is why the best thing that you can do for your
sleep is to actually live your nighttime life by candlelight or
sit in the dark. But no one's gonna do that,
right? It's 2023.
Everyone's gonna use a device. Turn on the light.
Everyone loves electricity. Your fluorescent lights.
So the next best thing is to block as much of that artificial
light as possible. And that's why you wear a pair
of blue blocking glasses. Now the orange lens Orange is
the opposite of blue, blue is the opposite of orange.
So blue light cannot penetrate an orange lens.
That's why we wear orange lens blue light blocking glasses.
Now there is just one side note to that.
You must be wearing a pair of orange lens glasses that block
at least 530 nanometers of blue light.
Many blue light blocking glasses on the market are amber lensed
or clear lensed, and they still claim that it helps with your
sleep. But in the physical universe
that we currently occupy, it is an impossibility that anything
other than an orange lens can block enough of the blue light.
Responsible for messing with your sleep.
So just for your listener, make sure that if you are looking to
improve your sleep, you get a pair of orange lens blue light
blocking glasses and not the clearer lens blue light blocking
glasses. Are there any benefits to those
clear lens? Like are they good for blocking
some yes. Some things, like if you're
looking at computer screen all day for instance.
Exactly. That is what they're great for.
In actual fact, during the daytime, we want blue light.
In fact, let me ask you a question.
What is the biggest emitter of blue light?
Do you know? Yeah, the sun.
The sun, Exactly. Well done.
It's the sun. So we actually want blue light
during the day, we just don't want blue light at night.
So in terms of wearing clear lens blue light blocking
glasses, wearing those clear lens blue light blocking glasses
while you're on a computer screen for example, or staring
at your screen all day will filter that blue light.
And it will actually give you clarity and focus and reduce
chances of fogginess and irritability.
So, clear lens for daytime use, orange lens for nighttime use.
Gotcha. Makes total sense.
What about you mentioned melatonin?
A lot of people are just going overboard and supplementing with
melatonin in the evening hours because their endogenous
production is so screwed up. Do you have a stance on if that
is beneficial or does that disrupt endogenous production or
how does that work? On occasion, if you're jet
lagged or something particularly disruptive to your schedule has
happened, taking melatonin can help.
However, the moment you start taking it regularly is the
moment that your body doesn't want to start producing it
naturally, and then you've got all kinds of problems.
So I would say use it sparingly. Would be my advice.
But you know you really want your body to naturally produce
melatonin, and you can do that by exposing yourself to natural
sunlight first thing in the morning.
Vitamin D Getting a healthy dose of vitamin D throughout the day.
And then your body will just naturally want to produce
melatonin at night time because your circadian rhythm, which is
your internal body clock, will have kicked in nicely.
Nature will have taken its course.
Your body will. So long as you're blocking blue
light at night, right? So long as you're blocking blue
light at night with a pair of quality orange lens blue light
blocking glasses, then your body will naturally want to produce
melatonin and you won't need to supplement with melatonin except
on occasion. Is there a benefit to subjecting
yourself to a ton of blue light in the morning hours if you're
waking up prior to the sun rising?
So like if in a perfect world, you'd wake up with the sun, go
to sleep with the sun. But like you said, no one's
doing that in this century. If I'm waking up before the sun
comes out and I subject myself to a lot of artificial blue
light, that would help jumpstart things, correct?
Yeah, I would. And you can buy devices like
morning alarm clocks, which blast you with, you know,
artificial light. I mean, it's no substitute for
the sun, but it's pretty good. I would recommend that, yeah.
I mean, if you're waking up before the sun and you want to
get your circadian rhythm in check, and you know you want to
sleep between the hours of, say, 8:00 and 10:00 PM, you want to
go to sleep at 8:00 and 10:00 PM at night, then it definitely
makes sense that if the sun's not getting up, you know, early
enough that you would expose yourself to artificial light in
the morning. Yes, Gotcha.
OK, that makes that makes sense. Yeah, I'm in a competition prep
right now and I'm having to tan to get my, you know, base tan.
So I'm going to try and time my tanning first thing in the
morning so that I can just get blasted with that before the sun
comes up. Start off the day with the
light. What are some other techniques
that you incorporate to optimize sleep?
Like I've got a pretty I don't get very much sleep quantity, so
I've tried to really maximize my sleep quality.
I'm typically getting like 6 hours a night, but I I try to
hedge the bets in my favor, so to speak.
I'm I'm using blackout curtains or you know, the blackout
goggles. If I don't have blackout
curtains in the room, I'm mouth taping, I'm turning down the
thermostat. I'm, you know, kind of eating
much earlier in the day so that my body's not trying to digest
food as I sleep and I'm timing my my fluid intake so I'm not
having to get up throughout the night to use the restroom.
Is there anything else that you would add to that list?
Yeah. The gold standard is when you
wake up in the morning, expose yourself to natural sunlight as
soon as possible. If you're going to exercise and
work out, studies show that doing it in the morning is
preferable if sleep is your goal.
You don't want to have any caffeine within 10 hours of
sleep. So if you're going to go to
sleep at say 10:00 PM, you want to make sure you cut off is at
12:00 PM. I just use the blanket rule.
Just don't drink coffee after. Don't drink coffee in the
afternoon. Coffee is only for morning.
And that seems to work out just great.
You're right on the cool temperature.
You want 65 to 69 degrees Fahrenheit as the cool
temperature in your bedroom. That's been shown to be the most
optimal. Definitely you want to be
blocking artificial blue light in the last hour before you go
to sleep. I recommend a pair of Swannies
blue light blocking glasses from Swannie sleep, but any any
reputable brand will do as long as you've done your research on
them and. No eating within three hours of
sleep. No drinking alcohol at all.
But you know, people are going to ignore me, Which might be a
good segue into talking about alcohol.
But you're actually better off drinking alcohol for breakfast
than you are anywhere close to bedtime, because at least your
body then has, you know, 12 to 16 hours to break down the
toxins. The problem is most people are
drinking glass of wine or beer or whatever it is at night time.
And they're putting the body to work.
They're essentially clocking the body in for for a night's work.
And the body doesn't want to work when it's sleeping.
It just wants to sleep. But as soon as you drink that
glass of alcohol with all those toxins, the liver has to go to
work to try to get the toxins out.
And so you now you don't spend as long in that deep restorative
REM phase of sleep. And I've had clients who've
tracked their sleep with an aura ring for a week when they have a
glass of wine. Seemingly innocent glass of
wine. And their sleep is compromised.
They stop drinking the wine. All of a sudden, their markers
improve, Their sleep improves. People have a very skewed
relationship with how alcohol affects their sleep, because
oftentimes they'll drink and they'll just crash afterwards so
that their quickness to sleep seems to improve, but the
quality of that sleep is significantly hindered.
Yeah, drinking alcohol may certainly help you fall asleep.
But the quality of your sleep will be so compromised that it
undoes any benefits you get from that.
I mean, even last night, I mean, I haven't drunk since 2010, but
last night I was out, ironically, at a tequila tasting
party and a cigar party, and I was with some friends and I just
drank mocktails. But we ate quite late.
You know, like the IT was a three.
It was a tasting menu and the three course meal and the
dessert came out and around. 930 quarter to 10.
And I drank. I was drinking some mocktail,
You know, everyone else was drinking tequila, but I was
drinking mocktails. And so I ate later than I
ordinarily would. Usually I have my last meal by
six or seven. But last night I had my last
meal around 9:45, let's call it 10, and I was still drinking a
mocktail at 10. And then I I went home, had a
shower, and got into bed around, let's say, 11:30.
And ordinarily I'm sleeping at. I'm already asleep by 11, but
I'm getting into bed at 11:30. I'm sleeping, falling asleep
somewhere between 11:30 and 12:00.
I mean, I woke up this morning having tossed and turned during
the night. My sleep was very light, you
know, like tossing and turning and just a bit uncomfortable.
And I could taste the sugar on my mouth when I woke up in the
morning, You know, from the. From the dessert that I had, I
just had it. It was like, what was it again?
It was these little cinnamon sticks with some very rich
chocolate. Cinnamon sticks with rich
chocolate. And the and the sugar from that
coupled with the sugar from the the juices, which I ordinarily
don't drink, was enough to just make my sleep, excuse my French
rat shit for the night, You know, like, but that's.
I mean, that's me not even drinking, drinking alcohol.
Imagine all the people out in the world right now.
Probably the listener right now who either occasionally or
regularly are drinking 123 glasses of wine every night,
having a late night snack or a meal and what I just described
as the norm for them. And they wonder why their
sleep's crap and they've got feel tired and irritable and
lethargic and they're snappy and their focus is about a five or
six out of 10. And then they seek refuge and
more drinking and possibly porn and maybe some shopping, some
love addictions and. Video game addiction, maybe
addiction to the cell phone, maybe become a workaholic.
They're all interrelated, so I got off track a little bit
there. But bottom line is, yeah, avoid
alcohol anywhere close to bedtime.
Avoid food anywhere close to bedtime or liquids for that, or
within three hours of bedtime if you can.
And then invest in a pair of invest in.
A high quality sleep mask. We have a really nice one.
It's Swanic sleep. It's 100% pure silk and it's
oversized. So we deliberately make it like
a huge jumbo size so it covers almost the entire face.
And because it's silk, silk retains moisture.
So the skin, you know when you put your face on a pillow and
most people have cotton pillow slips right?
The cotton dehydrates the skin right, which shows up the next
day with lines and the eyes and wrinkles.
But silk? Retains moisture, so if you
sleep with a silk sleeping mask, it's possible that you can have
less visible wrinkles and bags under the eyes when you wake up
in the morning because the moisture has been retained from
the from the sleeping mask. So anyways, worth giving that a
shot and also switching to a silk pillow slip as well.
Yeah, now that makes total sense.
What? What compelled you to stop
drinking in 2010? Was it just new research that
you uncovered or you noticing compromises in your own sleep
and performance quiet like what? What was the catalyst there?
I was a socially acceptable drinker growing up in Brisbane,
Australia for many years in that I had two or three drinks most
night at the most nights of the week, and I drank heavier on the
weekends. I didn't have a rock bottom
moment. I didn't get arrested.
I didn't get a DUI. I was just a socially
acceptable, consistent drinker over about 20 years from age 17
to, let's call it age 35. Nothing too bad, but.
I put on about 30 pounds of unwanted body fat.
My sleep was poor. I was irritable, lethargic.
I wasn't focused. I was operating about a six out
of 10, and I identified that it was in part because of my
drinking habits. And so I was in Austin, TX in
2010. I was at the annual South by
Southwest festival. I went out to an industry party.
I had two Bombay Sapphire Gin and Tonics.
Went back to my hotel 20 minutes north of downtown Austin.
Went to sleep and when I woke up in the morning and looked in the
mirror, I just felt blah and I looked blah.
And I went next door to the hotel to an IHOP in
International House of Pancakes. And I was sitting in this IHOP
and I just thought, what am I doing in an IHOP?
Feeling a little hungover and like look and taste that gin
from last night and come on James, just take 30 days off
alcohol. See if you can do it.
And I remember the time thinking, man, 30 days, wow,
what a Herculean task that would be.
And in 14 days I lost seven or £8.
And in 30 days I lost 13 pounds, 13 pounds.
In 30 days, just by not drinking all those dead calories, I slept
better. I looked better.
I had clarity and focus. On week three, I had an
opportunity to audition to become a Sports Center anchor on
ESPN. And to my amazement, they gave
me the job and I credited the clarity and focus from being
alcohol free in past to helping me get that job.
And so I thought, well, this is pretty good.
I've been 30 days without alcohol.
I've got my dream job, lost weight, feel better, look
better. I might keep going.
And so I just kept going and pushing it out. 50 days, 60
days, 90 days, six months. Then I got to one year and I was
back at the 2011 South by Southwest festival, the exact
same festival a year later. And I went into the Lust of
Pearl Bar on Rainey St. and I went up to the bar and I ordered
a Bud Light. And I went to put the Bud Light
to my lips as a celebration of one year, alcohol free.
And at the last moment, I put the beer down and I thought to
myself, how is drinking this celebrating?
Because in one year I've lost weight, felt amazing.
Attracted a beautiful romantic relationship into my life.
My friends have improved in quality.
I'm a much more nicer, agreeable person.
I'm sleeping great. My mindset's good.
I've got a positive outlook. And so I handed the beer back to
the barman instead. I've changed my mind.
Here's your tip. Thanks very much.
You can pour the beer out. And I walked out of there and I
haven't picked up an alcoholic drink since.
So it's been, you know, 13 1/2 coming up 14 years now since
I've had one soup of alcohol. And life just keeps getting
increasingly better because I believe that I'm living the life
that nature just intended me to live without poisoning myself.
Yeah, I think that is powerful, man.
Like I feel like people don't need to have this.
Make or break moments where they're just on the edge and
they have to have to change course in order to change
course. I was doing a 50 mile March last
year and like on the last leg of the March we were challenging
each other around us. You know what's something else
that we can do to push the needle forward and they decided
to do a 365 days sober challenge.
So I haven't had anything to drink in almost a year now as
well. And it worked that well because
I was going into this competition prep, so I don't
drink then anyway. So it was a pretty easy, you
know, transition for me. But having not had alcohol in
nearly a year, I don't miss it. I never really drank much
beforehand anyways. But it's like once you remove
those things that are holding your back and in life and people
don't even realize it's holding you back.
But when you, when you take a, take an inventory of what you're
doing, how you're spending your time, what you're spending your
money on, what you're putting into your body.
There's not really a whole lot in favor of alcohol consumption.
Like it is literally a toxin. And yes, you know, people can
argue that wine has some antioxidant properties,
polyphenols, etcetera, but the the downside certainly outweighs
the upside of those. There's other ways to get those
into your system that don't involve alcohol.
And once you just totally, completely remove it and you
don't need it anymore, it's amazing how much better things
become. Yeah, I agree with you.
I'm in alignment with everything you just shared.
And it's probably honestly the the case with any addictive
substance or tendency. I mean regardless of what the
the vehicle is that you have an addicted tendency towards like I
don't think that's healthy for people to become reliant on
things, especially things that are negative like food is an
interesting addiction because. I do certainly believe food can
be an addictive substance for many people and but that's
something that you have to consume to some form or fashion
on a somewhat regular basis for survival.
So things like drugs and alcohol that are obviously and clearly
-1 can make a different argument for than they would for
something like food. But I think pretty much anything
could be addictive to anybody. Yes.
Well, look, everyone can choose to live their life the way they
want to live. I tend to choose to live my life
the way I suspect nature always intended.
And that is, go to sleep when the sun goes down, Wake up when
the sun gets up. Drink lots of water.
Eat good food, get sunlight. Have good relationships.
Practice conscious communication.
Do the right thing. Be humble, be kind and live a
life of adventure. Whatever lights you up.
And when you do those things, it's amazing how, like I said
before, everything is intertwined.
You know, like when you're happy in your relationships, you eat
well, when you're unhappy in your relationships, you eat
poorly or you drink poorly, and when you eat well, you feel good
and so you behave better. But most people are eating
sugar, processed foods too close to bedtime.
Drinking alcohol compromises the sleep.
And then you get off to a really crappy start to the day.
And then, you know, you get into fights and arguments and
disagreements. You're not present with your
kids. You kind of snap at your wife,
your husband. And then you seek refuge again
in more sugary foods and processed foods and alcohol.
And the vicious cycle continues, you know, so I mean, it's great
focusing on health, but it's just one component, you know,
mental health, relationships, physical health, all of those
things together, man, you can just be unstoppable if those
things are firing on all cylinders.
Yeah, I completely agree. Why do you think people this is
going to become like a psychological podcast here?
But why do you think people seek refuge in these substances?
Like the sugary processed foods, like the alcohol.
Like the drugs, like what makes like you seem to have your life
in order. You know what makes you tick,
you know what you enjoy doing and that energizes you.
Same is true with me. I can't imagine at this stage in
my life, turning to a substance that I know is only hindering my
ability for growth as an escapism outlet.
Why do you think so many people get trapped in that negative
feedback loop of always reaching for that substance?
They don't know how to be with themselves.
Here's a test. They've gone to a hotel and
you've pressed the button for the elevator and you're waiting
for the elevator. Watch people Next time you go
and do it, watch how many people pull out their phone and start
looking at their phone. They can't even stand for 30
seconds by themselves without distracting themselves.
It's extraordinary. And I'm guilty of this as well,
by the way. I don't wanna just label it as
everyone else. Test yourself wherever there's
an elevator, go. Next.
Click the button. As long as you've got a little
bit of a weight, the elevator might be on the 17th floor and
you're on the ground. See how much you naturally wanna
reach for your side pocket or back pocket and pull out your
phone and start scrolling. That will tell you a lot about
where we are today as a society, because we're unable to simply
just be and a lot of that. The reason why we can't be is
because we haven't dealt with, in some cases, childhood trauma.
In some cases that's very severe, In some cases it's not
particularly severe, but it's still something still
significant. Maybe our mom loved this too
much, or not enough, or dad said something, made it, made it mean
something. And we created a story about
about ourselves, and we think we're no good.
And so we go through life thinking we're no good.
And so we try to get a temporary illusionary relief from that
feeling not being any good. And all of a sudden we're now
addicted to love. Or we're addicted to work, Or
we're addicted to alcohol. Or we're addicted to vaping.
Or we're addicted to shopping, or addicted to porn, or addicted
to video games. Or we're addicted to our cell
phone. So a lot of it really is just
human beings not being able to be with themselves because they
haven't resolved things that went on in their childhood.
Some kid in the school said that you were something when you were
seven and you lived the rest of your life, making it mean
something. Whereas the reality is, he just
said what he said, that you made it mean something else.
And not being able to process that, not being able to identify
that not doing the work is what they say.
You know, going through a personal development program or
talking to a therapist or psychologist or some kind of
professional dealing with that kind of stuff.
Not dealing with that means it's just too damn uncomfortable to
be with ourselves. That's why we reach for the
bottle, or for the vape, or for the porn, or for the shopping,
or for the job, or the work, or the business or the money
making. Because we're trying to relieve
ourselves of the tension of just being with ourselves.
Did you have any type of childhood horror stories that
shaped who you are and you had to kind of battle through that
at some point? Well, yeah, but I mean horror
stories. I mean, I have had a very
charmed childhood, very lucky 2 loving parents supported me very
well. We were middle class, weren't
wealthy, weren't poor, just comfortable.
But you know, like my parents didn't have a great marriage and
I saw that and I made that mean something, My mother, boss, my
father around in the relationship.
So I made that mean something. And that shows up later on in
life, right? That's shown up in later life.
Like I see life through a certain lens because of how I
saw my parents interact with each other.
I'm so thankful that I was raised so well as opposed to
people who you know, are abused, come from broken homes,
violence, alcoholic parents. I I didn't have any of that.
I was very sheltered and very blessed, but I still have
childhood trauma from certain things that went on.
Everyone does, Every single human being does.
Now I've worked through that and I'm still working through that,
but that's given me a level of, I'd say peace or calm.
Maybe not peace, but calm, confidence, reassurance.
And then because of that, I'm not manic, you know, I'm not,
I'm not needing to prove myself to anyone or anything.
And then that means I can eat well, I I'm not seeking refuge
in food or drink. You know, like if I'm calm, if I
know myself, if I've dealt with some childhood trauma, then I
and I'm in a calm state that I'm able to sleep the way nature
intended me to sleep. I'm able to eat the way nature
intended me to eat, exercise and get good sunlight and create
friends. And again, it's all intertwined.
It's all intertwined because you could know how to get a six pack
in the gym and have unresolved trauma from your childhood, and
all you're going to do then is just become an obsessive about
getting a six pack in the gym and other areas of your life
will just fall apart. So the biggest health hack I
think is personal development. Biggest mental hack?
Biggest mental hack is personal development.
I agree. I I too is blessed with a pretty
fortunate childhood. I think a lot of people
nowadays, if they did not come from broken homes, like people
like I'm a father now as well. And you know that that's placed
a significant degree of importance on how I raise my son
because I want to be a leader to him.
But when I look at people. That didn't necessarily have a
broken home or a rough upbringing, but they they go
through life now as adults in a way that doesn't challenge them,
that they're complacent in their job.
They're not passionate about the work they do.
They've just pretty much settled in a some degree of mediocrity.
I think that is also a massive catalyst for.
Them seeking refuge in unhealthy habits because there's just
nothing that drives them to pursue additional growth.
And I think that is that that seems to be on the rise right
now. Like people become very
complacent with their careers, with their relationships.
They just kind of coast, but they're not really driven.
Like, I talk to people all the day, all the time, and they just
seem to be in this very mediocre state and when you're.
Having such an idle mind that just what is the saying I don't
mind leads way to the devil's playground or something like
that. But like that, that's what makes
reaching for those substances that much easier as an outlet.
It's some form of escapism to escape the world you find
yourself in that is not bringing you some sense of fulfillment.
Yeah, we're finding fulfillment outside of ourselves.
Yeah. Yeah, I think the best thing
anyone can do is know them, know themself, Peter Drucker, who's a
great business owner, mindset coach, says.
You know, no one's knowing. Oneself is the key to
everything, so just being self aware and being self aware comes
from doing some kind of therapy or some kind of personal
development program. And from there life can just
feel so much better. Doesn't necessarily mean you
solve every problem that you've got right because challenges are
always gonna come up. But man, it's just it's a far
superior way of going through life in my experience.
Do you do any type of proactive therapy now or journaling or how
do you kind of work that into your routines so that you can
just be on the front end of it? I have a weekly coach from an
organization called Landmark Education.
Got a program called Landmark Forum and Landmark Advanced in
Communication and so I've hired A1 on one coach 52 weeks of the
year for 30 minutes. We have a 30 minute call every
week of the year for 52 weeks, and that's a good check in just
to go over some distinctions and many problems I'm having and
just to check in on the week. You know, anything I'm stuck in
and the coach helps me, helps me get unstuck.
I'm in a business mastermind, I mean, which is strictly for
business, but any business owner will tell you that 80% of
business is just the mentor game anyway.
So a lot of the conversation that we have in that business is
about, you know, mindset. So that's almost like some
therapy. I have a good group of friends,
you know, support of friends who have similar interests.
And so I talk with them. That's a good, that's good
therapy. And then I just, you know,
sporadically I'll go and do personal development workshops.
I don't do as many now as I did previously.
There was a time where I just bounced from workshop to
workshop to workshop. I kind of at the time it almost
felt like I was doing too much. But in hindsight it was great
because it's kind of like a push through.
I've got all these great skills and then now I kind of have the
tools in the tool belt, so to speak.
So when a challenge does come up, I've got a almost like a bat
phone, you know, like a I can press a button and I can speak
to my coach, or I can go to a mentor or an expert and get get
help and support. And I'm not afraid to, you know,
But I grew up in Australia where asking for help and support was
not really the done thing. So I'm quite proud of myself for
having broken out of that cultural conditioning and
actually I'm very proactive at getting support when I feel like
I need it. I think simply having a business
of your own too is a great vehicle for providing some
source of personal development and growth.
I mean, business is the challenge.
That is the that we don't live in a day and age anymore.
Most people don't where they're having to go and rage war
against their enemies. So we need some type of
self-imposed hardship to fight for.
In life and I feel like when you're a business owner and
entrepreneur, like that's just the day-to-day and I think that
provides an opportunity for growth.
I mean, you get excited to wake up in the morning and go work on
your business because you re put you so.
And it's just like this opportunity for extreme
self-awareness and accountability.
Like, you can't cheat your way out of that.
Like it just draws it to the forefront of your mind.
Yeah, I think owning a business is the best personal development
program. Well, let's call it one of the
best. Yeah, personal development
programs. Cuz you gotta deal with so much,
don't you? Especially if it grows and
you've got staff. You're not just dealing with
your own psychological issues. Now you're a therapist for all
of your staff. My business, one of my
businesses. I help hire achievers to stop
drinking alcohol, help mostly business owners and executives
to stop drinking alcohol, have an organization called Alcohol
Free Lifestyle and we have a signature 90 day stop drinking
process called Project 90 which the University of Washington
completed a scientific study on recently.
Because we have such a high success rate of 92% helping
people stop drinking alcohol, I am subjected to all of our
clients and all of their psychological drama on a daily
basis as we support them through stopping drinking.
But then in addition to that, I got all my staff who are all
going through their own challenges and we just had a lot
of change in that business in the last three months.
We, I mean, it wasn't anything drastic in terms of threatening
to the business, but there was a lot of systems and operations
that changed. And so the way things were
always done but changed very quickly.
And that caused usually very calm, dependable staff to throw
toys out of the pram. And you know, I started to see
them being irritable and frustrated and pointing fingers
at other people. It was ugly for a time, I have
to say. And I really, it took all of my
personal development skills to be able to manage people's egos
and manage people's personalities, of which they're
very different, not to mention my own.
Because it was frustrating for me to have frustrated staff and
I had to manage my own emotions and I had to have conversations
with staff who were throwing toys out of the Pram Man.
That's a great personal development program.
You know, being responsible for clients and staff.
You know, that's that's. Yeah, I can totally relate, man.
I work with the clients on a nutritional basis and I half the
time I swear I'm more of a personal therapist and a
nutrition coach and I've got employees as well.
So I can totally resonate with what you're saying there.
And I'm curious with you working with high level of executives,
CE O's, you know they have a business, they have a vehicle to
pour themselves into and work on personal development through
their own entities. What is the common denominator
amongst them that drives them to having a problem with with
drinking in the 1st place? Is it I would assume probably
more so. Stress induced from the
business. Well, that's part of it, but
it's the same as everyone else. Like we were talking about
before. It's unresolved childhood
trauma, you know, and just not being subjected to personal
development. So, you know, they're very
successful financially. Most of my clients, they've
figured out the money game, they've figured out the money
game, but they haven't figured out the dealing with their
emotions game they haven't figured out.
How to be a great husband or wife or a great parent or why?
When their spouse says something they get easily triggered that
they don't know. That they know they get
triggered, but they don't know why.
I haven't figured that out yet. And then you throw in dealing
with 20 different personalities. If you have a twenty person
business, right? Or if you're an executive,
you've got pressure from bosses or colleagues, expectations,
right? Or maybe you got a big mortgage.
And you got to keep the money coming in to keep paying off the
mortgage and so forth and so forth.
So I wouldn't say that their problems are wildly different
than anyone else's. It's just that owning the
business is a different type of stress and anxiety, as I'm sure
you would appreciate given that you own a business.
Yeah, yeah, I know for sure. There's one thing that I've been
incorporating a lot more these past six months of my life
that's made a profound impact on the quality of my life.
And that's just simply being very conscious of the things
that I'm grateful for. Like we hear, you know, fixating
on gratitude and having an attitude and gratitude is
important and it become it's like cliche at this point.
Like everybody hears that. But I've made a a valiant
effort, I think, to just hone in on that.
And every single day I have this moment where I just simply, you
know, meditate, pray, fixate on the things that I'm grateful for
and the things in life that truly matter.
And when you start the day off like that, it it makes it makes
it much harder to allow yourself to become negative towards
trivial things. They they certainly can cause it
to be flustered in the moment, but when the the underlying
foundational core is one of gratitude, you're able to just
cope with so much more that comes your way.
Yeah, I really acknowledge you for doing that.
I've got a slightly different way of doing it.
If you're open to it. I wouldn't say it's better, but
you might want to run it as an experiment.
Yeah, yeah. Run Diamond, man.
I have my clients, my stop drinking clients do what's
called the Daily 20. And that is, they write down 20
things they're grateful for every morning, 20 not 3, not 5,
but 20. And the reason I get to do 20s
because 20 is a lot, and 20 activates something called the
Reticular Activating System, which is a bundle of nerves in
our brain. It's otherwise referred to as
the Ras. Now when you, when you are quote
UN quote, forced to think of 20 things to be grateful for, and
then take the time to write those things down, it activates
the Ras and for the remainder of the day.
It's incredible just how many times you start thinking to
yourself, man, I'm so grateful for this.
You just start seeing life through a positive lens.
You start seeing lots of other things to be grateful for.
Whereas most people, they're not grateful.
They're living a life of expectation instead of a life of
appreciation. And so they don't see the things
that they are grateful for, they just see things that they're
missing out on. So when you write down those 20
things in the morning, write them down intentionally and try
to make them different each day if you can.
But it's okay. If you know many days they're
the same, you really, it's like you're going to the gym and
you're building a muscle. Like you're pretty ripped,
right? This is Keto Savage.
You know that to build muscle, you got to break the muscle
down. So it's the same with.
The gratitude in the morning you got to work the muscle.
Work the gratitude muscle, Send it to work, work at work, at
work it. And then the gratitude muscle
just gets stronger and stronger and stronger.
And then you just start seeing so much evidence everywhere of
more things to be grateful for. I like that a lot.
I've been journaling like two or three.
But you're absolutely right. It's easy to kind of just fall
into this habit of repeating many of the same things.
Like, I'm grateful for my health, my family, my home, you
know. So having a list of 20 is quite
a bit more challenging, certainly doable, but you have
to actually think much deeper about that.
So I will add another 17 to my list every morning.
Yeah, Good luck. Yeah.
No, that's good, man. That's really good.
And you said when you're working with these clients, they're
typically seeing this profound change within 21 days.
It's a 90 day stop drinking process, but they see profound
change within about 21 days, yeah.
Some of them are feeling, some of them feel increasingly
irritable for the first seven days because they're so used to
drinking alcohol. And now all of a sudden they're
not. They kind of, you know, they
sleeps a little choppy and they're more irritable.
But then suddenly it shifts around 7 to 10 days, and they
start to feel better. They start sleeping better,
thinking clearer, less irritable, eating better.
And by 21 days they're firing. And then it's just, you know?
We should teach them social skills, How to handle a business
deal when there's alcohol. How to celebrate with clients
when they're drinking and you're not how to navigate that, How to
have fun without drinking. What to drink instead.
And what happens is, is that people just love it.
They have breakthroughs. I mean, I've had one guy, he
he's a commercial real estate investor and he was based out in
Boston. His name's Guy Tano, Gae Guy.
Guy for short. And Guy did one additional real
estate deal each of the three months he was with us, and each
of those deals was worth about $75,000 to him.
So he made about $225,000 in additional income in the 90 days
that he was with us, just because he had clarity and focus
and energy. I mean, if we go back all the
way to 2010, remember I credited not drinking to helping me get
the job at the Sports Center on ESPN.
Well Fast forward now. Now you got this commercial real
estate guy who says he stopped drinking and he made quarter of
$1,000,000 in three months. Had another woman, Roseanne in
her late 50s who said that she felt self-confidence for the
first time in a decade by not drinking.
Had another guy, John lose 30 pounds £30 in 90 days.
That's a lot. That is a lot.
People lose the puffiness in their face.
You know, we've had someone ask his wife for a divorce during
the 90 days. I mean, it's not always.
I mean, that's a powerful, that was a powerful move for him.
And I guess he said it was on the cards for a number of years,
but he could never bring himself to do it.
And then so he got the clarity and the focus and he finally did
it and they got a divorce. Now, some might say that's very
sad, but the way he describes it, that was a great thing for
both of them and for their children, for them to make that
divorce, yeah. You know, other people save a
marriage and so forth and so forth and so forth.
You know, so you know, we use neuroscience.
It's empowering. This is not a 12 step program or
AA and any of that stuff. I mean, look, AA has helped
millions of people around the world, but it has a 7% reported
success rate. Which means it's 93% ineffective
for most of the people who try it.
That's just me repeating stats. And so if you use Google a a
actual success rate, you'll see a lot of studies that come up
which tend to suggest that it's not as effective as we naturally
might think. Rehab centers are the same, less
than a 10% success rate but cost $100,000 plus we have a 92%
success rate. And I think the reason we do or
one of the reason, let's say few of the reasons are.
Is that it's empowering, it's fun, it's supportive.
We have a like minded community. So it's really only business
owners, executives, sales people, lawyers, doctors,
physicians, working professionals who've already
figured out the money part of their life and they're just kind
of a mess in other areas of their life.
And so there's a camaraderie that comes from being in that
like minded community that really supports people that.
And then you, you create the community, you know, like the
community of people supporting each other, the coaching, the
accountability and also having skin in the game.
You know, you want to have skin in the game.
That means you want to put some money down on the table and say,
I mean, I'm doing this because the pain of drinking during the
90 days means you've just set fire to your money, right to
your investment. So there's a few factors that go
into making it really successful, but I think the
community and like minded. Community and quality coaching,
I think you're a huge, yeah, I definitely think the the
community component is is paramount for sure.
I mean 92% success rate is is tremendous for those remaining
8% that relapse after I would assume experiencing some degree
of positivity whether it's you know, physical health
relationship, whatever that may be.
What do you think is driving those 8% to relapse?
Like how can someone experience a significant positive
improvement and then find it in them to deviate from that in
your opinion? Well, candidly, they just don't
do what we tell them to do. Yeah.
The only people who don't make it are the people who have got
so much resistance that they start blaming the coach, or they
blame the call times, or they blame something outside of
themselves. In other words, they're not 100%
responsible. Gotcha. 100% of the 92% follow
the guidelines that we outline, and the guidelines are pretty
damn simple. Show up to at least one Group
Coaching Corps per week. There are 6 available every
week, but show up to at least one and make at least two selfie
videos that you send to our community in a very in a private
and confidential video messaging app that we have.
But the people who always fail are the ones who don't show up
to the one call a week or they don't do the 2 little video
selfies to the community. They loan woof it.
They try to do it on their own. And you just said, you know,
community is powerful. That's like probably the most
powerful thing. It's the lone wolfs, that's the
8%. Doesn't matter how many times we
tell them community, community, community, engage in the
community, get support, be supportive.
They still want to loan. Woof it.
And when they learn with it, they don't get the result.
You can probably hear the my frustrated tonality at this
point, but I mean, I've just gone over it ad nauseam with
these 8% and it's just human nature.
There's always gonna be that percentage who are just gonna
give you pushback no matter what.
Yeah, So they're probably not even experiencing have a
fraction of the benefits that would give them the momentum to
keep pushing forward. They're just simply never fully
committed from the getgo. Correct.
Gotcha. That makes total sense.
Yeah. I, I, I battle with this too,
from a nutritional standpoint. You know, people that you know
will hire me to help them with their nutrition and they won't
adhere to the macronutrient guidance that I'm giving them
it. It bewilders me, but I do know
some people that have, you know, changed their nutrition, lost a
ton of weight, experienced all the benefits that provides, and
then they'll still deviate and go back.
I don't know if it's just a moment of weakness on their part
or or what exactly, but for instances like that, I'm always
just baffled. I don't understand it because I
mean, there are certainly instances like that where people
will totally transform their health and then, you know, two
years later be even heavier than they were at the onset.
And that one's, that one's always, always, you know, taking
me aback. I don't understand that type of
mentality. Yeah, well, you know, it's funny
because with our clients, for the most part, for those ones
that, to borrow your phrase, have a relapse, then they remain
alcohol free for years afterwards.
And in, in many cases, the people who have the relapse are
the ones who are most committed after that, which is really
interesting, I found. So someone will have the success
and then they'll just temptation will get the better of them.
They'll have some drinks feel like absolute crap.
And then they say that's it, never again.
And then they go never again, you know?
So in actual fact, it's like they're really only drunk once
in some years. But the pain of that was too
much. I mean, especially if your body
is now used to not consuming poison, and then suddenly you
have a night of consuming poison, you feel like death the
next day. Yeah, I think.
They they have so much success and then they feel like they
have to prove it to themselves that they can then moderate and
especially with something like food, because food is one of
those things that we still have to consume, unlike alcohol or
drugs. So they have to, they feel the
need to prove it to themselves that they can moderate when in
reality they should just be a complete abstainer, right?
Yeah, that's a tricky one, man. Yeah, I I definitely feel like
there are certainly moderators. I mean, there's people that can
drink in moderation and that never become an issue for them,
probably not benefiting them in any way.
But same is true with food. You know, people can moderate
obviously unhealthy foods, quote UN quote bad foods and and seem
to get away with it from a hell standpoint.
But for those that do struggle with it, have addictive
tendencies, they're probably best off not trying to justify
moderation. Because honestly, if it's if
it's something that is not serving you, why would you want
to have the power to moderate it anyways?
It'd be much better to just have the power to eliminate it so
you're only getting better. That's right.
Yeah, interesting, man. Human psychology is an
interesting thing. Like what makes people take,
what pushes them to do things? It's interesting.
You know, you look at other species out there, animals, you
know, like they're not having an issue with overconsuming
fermented grapes in the wild or eating foods that are not
beholden to their livelihood. But us humans we're fickle
creatures for sure. Yes.
Well this podcast has been incredibly insightful man.
Like I I really like when the podcast guests are bring on we
we start going out at a mindset tangy because that's I think it
all. I mean obviously all boils down
to to 1 stream of mine with any endeavor in life.
So this this has been insightful.
I haven't truly enjoyed this. I've learned about sleep
quality. I'm definitely going to check
out some of your blue light blocking glasses because the
ones that have I like them but they're they're too darn tight
on my hand. They don't look too too
fashionable. So I will be checking out your
glasses for sure, and I think, I think anybody listening would be
able to take something from this from a mindset standpoint as it
pertains to addictive substances and things they may be
struggling with. Yeah, nice one.
Yeah, stop looking like a meth chemist wearing those glasses
that you're wearing. We're stylish pair.
Yeah, from our company. No, for sure man, I do.
I do not have a pair that are for the daytime.
So we we were speaking about how it's beneficial to have blue
light during the daytime. I'm assuming the ones that are
for the day that are clear are just simply blocking the
negative lights from the screens, but they're not
inhibiting the blue light from. The sun.
Correct. Yeah.
So we've got daytime and nighttime.
We've got the sort of clearer ambulance type classes and
prescription and readers. And then we've got the nighttime
ones as well. You can check it out of the
website swanicsleep.com. Awesome man.
Well I will certainly link out to that.
Make it easy for people to find you.
Is there any other sites you wanna link out to?
Social profiles? Things of that nature.
I'm on Instagram TikTok at at James Swanick.
I'm also on YouTube at Alcohol Free Lifestyle.
Got a podcast in Apple podcast and on Spotify called Alcohol
Free Lifestyle and swanicksleep.com.
Or if you just type in Swanick blue light bucking glasses in
Amazon, you'll find us there as well.
Awesome man. Well, I will most certainly link
out to all those. Like I said, make it easy for
people to find you truly appreciate the time you taking
jumping on here and chatting with me, James.
If there's everything I can do for you, man, just let me know.
Thank you, Robert. Thank you for having me.
Appreciate it. You bet.
Take care.