Well, hello there, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto
Savage.com. And today I have special guests,
Anthony Kunkel on the line, Anthony is an ultramarathon
Runner. He is a beast when it comes to
Endurance Sports. We talk about is fueling
Trinity. Be talked about how he recovers
from these long runs and makes it a sustainable Endeavor.
We talked about all kinds of things.
All things running, we talk about the shoes, he wears we
talk about it all. So if you're interested in
Endurance Sports, if you're interested in ultra marathon
running, this is your podcast without further do is sit back,
relax and enjoy the show. With Anthony.
And William Eden. How are you man?
Real good. Real good Sunshine again.
Like it always is here and little gimpy this week, but
everything's good. Yeah, you get a you got an
injury that you were telling about, right?
Yeah. I'm dealing with some kind of
mystery. I mean, the good news is, I
don't get running injuries but then the bad news is when I get
injuries I can't just Google them or ask a physical therapist
because it's like really odd. The strange stuff.
So you know, once you once you don't, you know, once you're
Bulletproof on achilles tendonitis or, you know, it band
problems or stress fractures or what have you then that you
don't know. I mean, when something goes
wrong, it's not you're no longer part of the 99 percenters there
and so your, your problems are really odd and so I have some
little muscle like probably something that stabilizes my
toes or maybe flexes my toes is just like, totally Feels like
it's gonna get torn off the bone this week and so I'm I'm getting
some cross training in and do a little shake out week and then
hopefully I'll be back to the grind next week.
Well I wanted to have deep in his main because I don't know
that much about ultra running to be honest.
You obviously not know a lot about it.
So kind of give us some background man, like what got
you into running the first place?
I just give me some back story here.
Yeah yeah definitely. Yeah you'll have to back me up
because I definitely have surrounded myself with Runners
at this point in my life I think when I About 15 or so.
I think I decided this is this is something I want to spend as
much of my life doing as possible.
And so, you know, after well, over a decade of that, I think
I've done it, you know, like talking to Runners about running
all the time. So bat me up and clarify stuff
as we need to because I'll definitely dive into jargon my
my four years in exercise science as well.
So, I tend to forget that people, we're not all Jim
Majors, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I think you do tend to
self-select, right? You gravitate towards stuff that
that you're good at and the catch with with running is that
especially as you get into the real long stuff, there's just an
endless number of talents. I mean there's there's people
that are totally built for it perfectly but just have
horrible, fiber type or have high prevalence of injury or you
could you could have a really good ability to absorb oxygen
and it really poor, you know, really poor metabolism or really
poor control over your day. Or you could just be a soft
person, maybe, you know, where you just have a hard time, you
know, drawing on drawing on some kind of strength Beyond you.
And so there's a lot of talents that get involved in as you go
longer and longer and I ran a bit in grade school.
Like cross-country, mmm, and then middle school.
I just kind of played around it. A lot of inline skating like
playing at skate parks, but also just getting to, and from there
and it definitely helped me build a base.
And I've always been a pretty No easily, obsessed person.
I guess. My my like father's side of the
family, all the men and my you know me.
See my father And Buddy on his size.
A lot of just like addiction and alcoholism and just, like,
really tight a Tendencies. So I think I grew up kind of
respecting that part of me, you know, knowing that okay, well
you can be a serious athlete and probably get somewhere or you
can be a successful businessman and probably get somewhere or,
you know, you can, you can be an alcoholic and it's like I feel
like that offer was kind of always subtly.
You know, I wasn't able to articulate that as a 16 year old
kid, but I think I saw that that was kind of on the table for me.
And so, You know, respecting that it was nice to get into
something. And so before high school
started, I was kind of thinking, West Point, it's kind of thing
in the United States Military Academy for the Army growing up.
You know, growing up moving a lot, but my parents families
independently of my parents. My families are all military.
I mean, loads military, military all over.
And so, you know, when my father had a job in my my mother, my
father aren't military. But when my dad, Job that
involves moving every three years, they're like, well, yeah
that's normal. That's what people do.
So I was kind of like military brat schedule anyway even though
you know wasn't military and so kind of perpetually the new kid
and always always, you know, find something new and need
something to identify with and is at some point, I got it in my
head that I really didn't like my circumstances.
You know, people that were around me, were just kind of
coasting and it was, I don't know whose it was a premature
struggle with Nia. Ilysm, probably of just like,
you know, nothing matters and what do you do?
And people are just wasting their lives and nobody's
passionate. Nobody's nobody's all in on
anything. And I think the the West Point
dream was largely just to separate myself from that.
I figured if I got into something so rough and so
selective that I would you know I'd be happy or something.
I'd be around people that were all as obsessive and, you know,
driven as myself. And yeah, I think I think from
there it was like, okay, I need a varsity letter, okay, I can
try out for cross country and probably make probably make
Varsity right away. And so I did and my program was
a joke. It's not that I was good.
I was like a, you know, 16 flat 5K Runner by the end of high
school and so that's, that's fine.
I mean, it at the time, it felt like it sucks because I was in a
really competitive area and I just figured man, I'm not even
good. But then, you know, by senior
year I realized no The national level that's that's really
solid. That's like I, you know, by the
time I realized I could run D1, I had already let that dream
died. So, I never really wanted to run
D1 and my coaching was so horrible in high school that I
figured out and I didn't want to do that and be under another
coach and I just didn't trust anybody.
And at some point like halfway through high school I started
reading a lot like reading everything.
And first it was like Roger Bannister who was the first
person to get under four minutes in the mile and he was a total
academic, he was like, you know, hey I've done all the data.
There's no reason I can't break for in the mile and so, he just
went at it. And that was that attitude was
everybody said, hey, you know your copy or hey, you're going
to die. Or hey, something something's
going to go wrong. You can't do that.
He's like you know the writing's on the wall I can do that.
That's kind of where I am right now with the 50-mile world
record. But so from there it was kind of
like okay I can coach myself and then at some point you realize
you gravitate towards what you're better at and I was a
much better 10K Runner against the same Runners postseason,
then I was 5K. And so I kind of just figured as
it got longer the durability mattered more and the ability to
kind of play with your mind mattered more.
And it was less about raw talent and so I kind of gravitated
towards that. And so you know that here we are
the longest distance isn't like high school across country that
they don't ever exceed like a 5k really, right?
Correct. Yeah.
So what was your first foray into going beyond that like was
it just something like a local event that you signed up for and
then found that you Updated and you perform pretty well and
underhand. That transition happen.
Yeah, my local Turkey Trot, south of Chicago was a 10K and
so I realized like, oh man, this guy beaten by 30 seconds over
the 5K last weekend and now I beat him by three minutes over
the 10K. It's like what how does that
happen? And then I figured I'd do a
marathon at 18 and it went horribly wrong.
I just I didn't do anything. And so then a few weeks later is
that Gingrich is the guy's name and he was he was living one
town over. Over for me, and he's a freaking
Legend in his own right. And he was like, yeah, I'm going
to this race huff, and it's a 50k, and it was on Trails, which
I had never really run and it was in the snow which I'd never
run in serious, know like that. And it was a 50k.
So it was a it was just a little bit longer than Marathon.
You know about 5 miles long with a marathon.
And I was like, okay, well the marathon didn't go.
Well, so I'll just use after my last long run and I'll go to the
50k and it went equally horrible.
But, you know, six hours later. I finished this 50k.
A crippled old but I definitely called it.
Okay, well, that wasn't horrible.
But next time I know what to prepare for.
You know, like I went there and I saw how things went and I
learned some stuff and really just kind of caught the bug.
And from there just wanted to know.
I mean my driving force for the first few years wasn't that you
know, I was going to be the best or I was going to like win races
or win national championships. I really just wanted to know
what it felt like to run hard for that long, you know, to feel
like you were psychologically to feel like you were Racing for
four hours. You know, what does that feel
like? It's it's one thing to race
somebody for 15 minutes or 20 minutes or down the block but to
to be out there for hours and hours and hours.
I mean, what does that feel like?
And that was really my driving force was just the the
sensations and the Ecology of kind of going there, you know?
Yeah. Feel like, you know, I've never
run an ultra of that. I've ran a marathon just on a
whim and it's kind of crazy man. Like running distances.
I mean it I feel like Ultras the ultra sport has definitely grown
in popularity momentum here lately because back in the day
it was like you were in a marathon that's like the upper
echelon. Like that's the elite and now
they just keep getting longer and longer and longer and like
the mental fortitude in the drive that goes into running, a
distance that long. I mean, it's totally it.
A mind game. Absolutely.
But I don't know, man. It's crazy from like a like a
training and a conditioning and fueling standpoint.
What are some differences that that you're seeing and
incorporating? You know, with with the tin case
that used to run versus the 50 case and be on the run right
now? Yeah, I think I think you kind
of, you know, thankfully. You figure it out as you go
along, right? Things go things, go horribly
wrong or maybe they go, right? You know, when you figure out
what works too but you kind of it's trial and error.
There's not a lot of data and, you know, certainly in 2010,
there's a lot less mentorship. I mean, I would have read any
book that was out and there weren't any not really there
were, you know, two or three of them.
Hmm. And and so there wasn't a lot of
guidance, which was good because you've been kind of getting kind
of cut your own path and make your own way.
And so I had, I had the blessing of I was going through
vocational school for personal training and nutritional
counseling and I had a to instructors.
Actually, that just said man you endurance, guys are dead.
Um, like this this whole high carb thing, like carbs carbs,
carbs is the dumbest thing ever. You guys.
You guys are idiots. And it's like, all right, what
are you talking about? And then looking at fat
metabolism and get in diving into all this and and then being
that extreme type of person that would be drawn to the sport in
the first place. Was, you know, it's like well if
I'm going to go high fat like let's just go keep it Janet, you
know, carbs if carbs aren't everything I thought they were
them. Let's just get rid of them
totally and see what happens and so I had, you know, I started
playing with the high fat. Carve stuff in in late, 2010,
early, 2011 and instantly like my mood lifted and it was
probably like hormonal. I mean, even even though you're
at fragile age anyway, but just just like health and wellness.
First, I mean more than anything and realizing that I could go
out and do these, you know, 3, H 3 H events, much more smoothly
and it was just game changing from there and that opened up
the world and the physical maturity of stacking in miles
and letting the weekly volume grow.
I mean, like, Senior year of high school and a bunch of weeks
at 60 first year out of high school.
So this is 2011. Now, for me, I did a bunch of
weeks at 80 and that was a good number for me that 2011-2012.
Leave it about 80 a week was was a good place for me and like a
one-off week here, there at 100 miles so we're talking weekly
volume. So total miles running a week
and yeah, it was it was from there from there.
It kind of grows. It's like, okay well, you know
the guys that tippy-top are doing 100 miles a week or 180
miles a week so I know at some point I got to do that but
physically I'm just I'm going to let my body mature and slowly
take my time to get into that because you know if your Peak
age is 30 or 35, depending on who you are, maybe even 40 for
these real real long races. And that's not even talking
about like six days races, where your Pete could be 40 or 50,
even when you start talking about you know 3,000 km races or
that sort of thing and yeah. So there's just so much into it
and so I So I kind of built this linear approach.
That said, okay I'm going to build, I'm going to add 20 miles
a week, you know every winner every other winner for the next
10 years, and I'm going to see where that leads me.
And so now we're kind of at the point where I've made, you know,
just trivial gains after trivial gains each each season and
rather the race, sometimes the race goes, well, sometimes it
doesn't. Sometimes you learn a big
lesson, sometimes you learn a small lesson.
Sometimes you don't learn anything because everything goes
right and you win and it's effortless and everything.
Good. But you know, to the outside
world it looks like a rockier, you know, a more up and down
approach than it has been a mean.
It's it feels to me like it's been smooth sailing since I was
about 19. So like with the training I feel
like a lot of people probably Trends.
There's or so that I've been hopping around but oh, I lost it
for a second. What was that last thing you
said? Yeah.
You good. What was that last thing you
said? Yeah.
Weekly volume and long-term goal.
Catchy, I feel, I feel like a lot of people that aspire to do,
you know, Ultra long distance running.
They just, they go at it too quickly.
They try to push themselves beyond what their muscular
maturity would allow, and they wind up just having serious
injuries sustained. Because, like, I didn't, I
didn't realize the peak, like a lot of these Runners that are
performing at the highest level or in their forties.
I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, especially, like, the next race I'm going to do in
Late, July July, 22nd to the Third is there's going to be an
elite 6-day race that starts after I get off the track.
And that or the day after I get off, and it's like that event
will be thrown, it'll be it'll be Bob her.
And I think, and Joe fiji's will be throwing it down.
And Bob Kearns like 55, I think Joe fiji's is late, forties.
I'm pretty sure. And it's like, these guys are
not throwing down in a masters division.
Like these guys are the best in the world.
Wow, that's crazy. And you think that's because
they've just sustained that gradual Improvement year after
year after year like they didn't like it.
They just gradually scaled it up.
It wasn't a night and day. You know, changed.
I've almost I'm going to run an ultramarathon I automatically
have to start logging 100-plus miles a week.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's definitely it's a certain amount of it is just physical
maturity, right? Like a 45 year old can go on an
hour of sleep or 30 minutes of sleep for six days.
Much easier than a 20 year old, can, you know?
And so yeah, there's a little bit of that going on for sure.
I mean that that's probably half of it really is just the
physical maturity of being a little older.
And you know, you gain more perspective.
I mean, some of it is some of it is wisdom like that.
But by a true definition of wisdom is you've seen it enough
times like you've hurt enough times and done anyway, and you
just, you just don't care anymore.
You're like this doesn't even register anymore.
And so, yeah, I mean you can you can appreciate At that in your
world. It's like when you know when
you're doing a set of 10 or 20 squats in your hearts pounding
out of your chest, it's like you go to a place where a certain
amount of wisdom can save you from even having to consider how
hard it is, you know. Yeah.
And I think over it over like a Six-Day event or a 48-hour a
72-hour event, you know, some of these events it's like you'll go
72 hours and you won't stop. I mean, you, you won't, you
won't sleep. You won't change shoes.
You won't in a perfect world. You won't stop me.
You won't stop to pee. You'll just piss yourself.
Or whatever whatever and it's like you're going and going and
going and you'll walk and eat and you'll excuse me.
Ellen. And so that's that's pretty wild
man. It does blow my mind.
Like I've been I had Zach bit on the podcast and we were talking
about you know some of the records he's broken and it just
like the the pace the distance the time.
I mean it blows my mind with a human body is capable of from
like an ultra running standpoint.
Like it just seems inhuman but I mean it really is.
Amazing. So like for you, you know, at
what point does it start getting hard?
Like at what point is, is, you know, breaching your comfort
zone. Well, so I'm much closer to
stack in the ultra world. And I am a lot of people that
get a lot of attention, at least in America where you know you
have like you know people that are doing 200 mile races or 100
mile races in the mountains and it's you know, where course
record is 16 or 17 hours. That's like a totally different
sport than People that are doing Six-Day event on the track or
the people that are doing, you know, Thousand Mile plus stuff,
you know, thousand thousand km distance, kind of stuff like
that, where it's sleep, deprivation and just structural
stability and other other logistical stuff that ends up
mattering more than any kind of oxygen, absorption, or raw
measures of Fitness that we would measure in the lab at
least. And so it's like it's like a
whole different. There's Sports in the sporting,
a 50k on the road, takes me less than three hours on a decent
day. Day, you know, that's, that's
nothing compared to someone that's going to take 72 hours of
sleep, deprivation, and food management and skin management
and all that, right? So it's like a totally different
different ballgame. So, with that, in mind, what the
point where it gets hard is different on each race?
I mean, I've definitely found that You know, I'm just now
getting in my late twenties and 28 right now.
And that's a good thing. I mean that's that's you know
both because I've stacked up more training and because my
body's a little more mature just on its own timeline that I will
hopefully handle hundred K better than I ever have but what
I find is you know 40 miles 45 miles is money.
You know about about 5 hours is an awesome day for me.
I can I can really really race for a five hour event once you
start trickling into like six hours.
It it weighs because it's really really breaking down.
But that said, you don't think about quitting in the last hour.
You don't think about major problems in the last hour,
you're going to make it. I mean, it's going to happen
whether you slow down, or speed up or whatever it is, it's not
really, it's not that dark, it's more of a physical thing.
It's more like a running a 5k where it's, like, you know, the
pains there and it hurts. And it's like, you're just going
to have to hold this screening baby for an hour, right?
You're just gonna have to be uncomfortable for an hour and
that's that's just that I mean, it's gonna happen.
Whereas the earlier section usually somewhere somewhere in
there almost 15 maybe 20 miles in to an event where you realize
like, oh man or maybe even the marathon Mark as late as the
marathon Mark we're like dude I feel like garbage.
It's like well yeah dude you just ran a marathon look just
because you're running two of them today.
Doesn't mean, doesn't mean that running a marathon especially
fast Marathon. You know, step 3 hour marathon
is not gonna hurt you, you know just because you got it in your
mind that you're going to Run farther doesn't doesn't detract
anything from the raw objective reality of it.
And so, usually have a point in that, like, 15 to 25 mile range.
Usually a little on the earlier end of that where you just like
you're just hoping for an injury or you're just hoping for you
know, something to go catastrophically wrong because
you You're intimidated, you know, you're intimidated by how
much is left and how far you've come already and you feel like
you shouldn't hurt as bad as you do.
But you're going to I mean, it's going to hurt, it's not going to
feel great all the time. And usually, once I can get over
that, you know, I'll take a Vespa.
If you're familiar with them, I'll take a Vespa and then, you
know, 20 minutes later followed with a with the gel.
And then, you know, all the calories are going and ketones
are flowing. All the cylinders are open by.
I usually like my all 20 22 and then I feel great then it's
like, all right, we've come far. After the body is just
automatically doing its thing and much more Flow State like so
usually the Crux of it for me mentally, is that earlier part
once? Once I can get into it, I'm less
worried about it even even when I'm not into it enough where I
can start counting down, you know, let's use a 50-miler as an
example. You can't really start counting
down until at least Mi 35 maybe mile 40 you know where there's
there's a reasonable run. Left you like a 10-mile run it's
reasonable Health saying okay we've come 30 Mi now we only
have 20 miles left. You don't ever want to think
that every yeah. Yeah.
I think that's that's why they say like when you're running a
marathon, like if that's the total distance, you get to mile
marker 20s when like it really starts, wearing on people,
mentally. Yeah, and physically, I mean as
you can appreciate you know it. Once you're once your two hours
in and your your glycogen is Tapped Out, you can't eat quick
enough to replace 100 percent of the calories you're burning.
I mean, you can't eat quick enough to replace half of them
unless you're running really slowly.
Yeah. So that's that's what the fat
metabolism comes in. I mean, the the ability to
really, really metabolize fat is absolutely King.
And in my book, for the people who aren't you know, Zach and I
think Zach, would I be okay? Identifying, this too is like me
and Zach. Aren't talented.
Like, if anything I had more Talent than Zach does, probably.
I mean, raw measurable talent, but, you know, he's smart, he's
tough as shit. I mean, act like he's really
gritty, I mean, seriously, ready?
And you know, you can, you can overcome a lot of that just by
being smarter by being disciplined and really playing
with your diet and figuring out what works and what doesn't and
getting a certain amount of it's less, about fat metabolism per
se, and more about metabolic. If I, you know, if there's a
phrase that I gravitate to, if you're eating moderate card, you
can't burn fat at all. You know, if you're eating 40%,
your calories today, from carbohydrate your ability to
metabolize. Fat is like nil like negligible,
right? At least like you know psych
cyclical Quito and things like that.
Even fasted runs as we found out in some of the studies here are
the benefit is very its peanuts compared to really really fat
adapting compared to really really get Getting, you know, 60
70 percent of your calories from fat.
And then a lot of the remainder from protein for at least
certain periods of time, you know, a couple weeks in the
offseason things like that and then depending on your event
will determine how much you need.
But man, that fat metabolism is absolutely King.
Yeah. See, I don't, I mean, I've never
run an ultra obviously, I don't have that perspective, but when
I run that Marathon like I didn't have any training for
which probably wasn't the wisest thing either, but I did it all
fasted and I didn't have any gels or anything.
You know, carbohydrates throughout the entire run,
nothing like that at all. But I never felt like I hit a
wall from a fuel standpoint. I felt totally fine energy-wise,
completely fine. I was hurting from like a
conditioning standpoint my feet. We're just not condition for
putting those kind of miles, and absolutely.
I've got a real bad overpronation man you have any
experience with that like are you?
You're probably much more structurally sound than me from
running standpoint but my overpronation just kills my
ankles when I'm running. Yeah, I'm not sure.
I mean, you can either play with running form and I tend to be
much more under the hippie end of things of like, you know,
there's a reason all your ancestors weren't eaten by lions
or whatever, you know, stars because they couldn't catch the
deer or the mammoth or whatever. It's like your feet are probably
fine, you know, if thankfully I'm not a doctor so I can't, I
don't have any skin in this game.
I can't lose my, my licensure for, you know, spouting hippie
propaganda here. But man, your body's probably We
perfect your body wants to run. Your body is constantly
struggling to be robustly, healthy and bulletproof and I
believe that. And so I think we've, you know,
pronation wasn't even a word, you know, outside of outside of
like this Labs at the Army against not even Fizz laughs at
that point outside of anatomy and is until we had a way to
correct it. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't
part of what Runners talked about until we had shoes that
quote, unquote, corrected it. So I would be interested to see
You know, balance or get your own balance cushion or CC.
Like you have arches. Are your feet flat.
I'm pretty flat footed. Yeah.
Because I'd be interested to see
what we could do over, you know, a two to three month period of
building up, some serious foot strength on you because you
definitely find that a lot of people can build an ark out of a
flat foot, some people can't, but you might even shrink your
shoe size because your arch is pulling your bones all back
together. And if you don't at least you
can strengthen some of those, some of those lower leg, you
know, um, that proprioception and and what category going on
down there. So what kind of exercise do you
incorporate for targeting the foot specifically?
Like that now, man not enough, I think that's why I'm dealing
with what I have right now. I really think if I were to
spend more time on just it, you know, the like memory foam, kind
of balance pillows. Yeah, I'm a big fan of those.
I think just just spending a little bit of time standing on
that or doing like a like an R DL to a running stance, if you
can even visualize that, you know, To get, you know, go down
right hand touches the left foot that you're balancing on and
then stand up into into a like a running man and doing do
movements like that to develop some glute activation while also
building, just a lot of proprioception in that lower leg
and in through the hip even, it's really hard to beat that.
It's a very systemic and it lets your body, lets your nervous
system takes care, take care of things, and kind of tap into
your own, your own body's wisdom.
Instead of trying to stick a bandaid where it hurts, you
know, on that subject of Found that like, a lot of Runners are,
it's kind of like divided, a lot of Runners are, you know, all
for the Fancy Shoes with the correct, you know, correction
points like the, you know, the the cushions all that stuff that
to get everything balanced and fix where a lot of Runners
gravitate towards the minimalist style, shoes and Q.
We're just allows your body to do, whatever it would naturally
do. Definitely.
That's kind of what you're opting for as well.
Yeah, and I'm sure some of that is my own bias, right?
Mean, I've kind of self selected for this sport, you know, and my
like I said there's a lot of talents in this sport you know
in my case, the first talent that I have more than anything
else. Is I'm freaking bulletproof.
I mean, this this modified week right here, right in want to
take off, you know, 120 miles. I wanted to run through this.
This is the third time that I've ever modified training in my
life at least in my adult life. Hmm.
So it's, you know, I'm, I've missed whatever six weeks of
training out of well, over a decade is what we're getting at.
And it's like so clearly I'm bulletproof mean.
I've known that I've known that I can train with anybody in the
world basically because I'm just I'm durable.
My body will always come back for more and then I you know you
bring in you bring in a lot of fat application and that brings
that to the next level already and then you bring in certain
like very intentional carbohydrate in there and that
brings it to another level as well.
So you know I'm certain that I'm a bit biased just because my
personal Ben that I'm just bulletproof.
And so that that probably leads to some of what you're
describing of some athletes are all about, you know, the big
chunky, ho cos and some athletes are all about the super minimal
stuff. I'm sure a certain aspect is
that but I don't know. I mean there has to be a truth
somewhere in there and I tend to think it's kind of like the
metabolic flexibility question of.
I can always take a pair of Hogan has take them out of the
box and put them on it miles, 70 100 Miler and if my feet are
screwed, those are going to help still.
Mmm, I can't do the same with the opposite, you know, if my,
if my low back hurts because I've been in Ho cos I can't
change out a hose and put on Luna sandals and then just click
and then be fine, right? It doesn't work that way.
So it is almost a metabolic flexibility thing of as you get
older, as you get more beat up during an event acutely.
As you, you know, what have you, you can always add more cushion.
You can always add more shoot. You can always add more
correction Orthotics on. You can always add those four
back. It takes much of to take them
away. That's kind of my angle shoes
and Footwear, and in really life, I guess, right?
Is strip everything away until until it's absolutely the
minimum that you can get by. And then, you know, as you get
older and you want to be more comfortable than you, add
things. That's a good point.
I've been trying to do that with my foot where, I mean, I run
pretty much every day just as a not like any hardcore training,
just as a way to meditate more anything.
But yeah, I'll try an alternate days with like a more cushion
shoe versus more of a minimalist shoe that way.
My body doesn't get acclimated to To the easier of the two, you
know, man, that's beautiful. That's that's like the first bit
of advice that I give people is alternating shoes.
Not just like a trail shoe on trails in the Rhode show on
roads, but alternate shoes and the more miles, you're running
the more shoe you need. I mean, I will do I really like
running twice a day. So I will, I will seriously do
six different pairs of shoes in 3 days.
So let's talk about shoes because I mean that's pretty
much the gear, the Running World.
What do you recommend? Like I guess it depends somewhat
on the person's you know, Anatomy.
But like, what are what's a good all-around, beginner shoe?
I like Ultras lineup, still, I think they've gotten a little
bit clunkier and appealing to where the markets going, which
makes sense, but I don't know if that's a step in the right
direction. Necessarily altruistic, good
company. They've, they've lost their
Roots, I guess a little bit as well, but, you know, that
they're, they're a great place to start.
I think, still for most people being a zero drop platform and
having having some cushion on them still, that's a really good
place to start for a lot of people.
But yeah, I mean, There's nothing wrong with going into a
running specialty store and seeing what they what they tell
you and getting those shoes into the rotation.
But I'm all about taking shoes 1,000 miles to thousand miles,
just beat the hell out of them. And, you know, as quick as that
shoe changes and losses. Support your body's changing to,
you know, over the course of three hundred miles.
Your body is adapting way more than that shoes changing.
So yeah, having having a lot of different shoes and rotating
them in and out and learning. I think learning what gives you
certain pain. Pains and what gives you certain
relief and and really specifying that putting putting a label on
that or keeping track of your shoes in a running log and
seeing hey, you know, I've had, I've had stuff like that where
it's man, I had posterior tibial pain for like two years, and
I've been really figured out that it's there were two pairs
of shoes and every time it was like 48 hours.
After I wore them, I would have posterior tib pain.
Now, 48 hours after I might be in any number of 10 or 15
different pairs of shoes. So, if I only log do that and
wasn't really looking at it, I wouldn't have known.
And then once I figured that out, boom, I took a season out
of those shoes and there we were, we were totally square.
And then I haven't had pain since and it's like the, the
meticulous logging of everything.
That's one of those things that that will get me more training.
That will net me more training and then we'll make me a faster
runner and long term, and it has nothing to do with anything I
can measure in the lab. Right?
So that's, that's kind of one of those angles to and yeah, I
mean, You start in one spot, you figure out what you like, but
there's nothing wrong with. That's probably the most
marketable view that I have is, there's nothing wrong with
having ten different pairs of shoes that are drastically
different, and then every six months, just take a look at your
quiver issues and say, you know? Yeah, I've gotten a little
softer. Yeah, I've gotten a little
minimal, this block and let's, let's throw in, you know, let's
make sure the next two pairs of shoes are the opposite of that
and balancing it all out. I like it.
You ever earned those like five
finger super Minimalist Shoes. Absolutely, man, I just beat up
a pair of mine that I got. Those not like to give you crazy
shin splints or anything. Unless what I have is a shin
splint right now, just a crippling Elite version of shin
splints. I don't know that I've ever
really had that since, like high school that tends to be a tends
to be a beginner problem or when you read begin.
So, if I'm going to have Shin pain like that, you know,
compartment syndrome, or what we would all categorize, these
shrimps, once, all that stuff. It'd be like in the next week
after I take this week out of running, it be you know, Monday
or heck. I have a good workout next
Wednesday. Hopefully, then reading feels
good. That's when you end up a little
bit more. Step to do that stuff.
But because I maintain my volume so much.
You know, like I said, this is the third time ever that I've
had to modify training because I just maintain my sick volume all
the time. I don't ever have the injuries
like that. Got you got you?
What about like, icing or using like, Saint or anything like
that for injury prevention? You do any of that?
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, contrast contrast is
impossible to be, I think they can, I think, while the
scientists argue about the benefits of, you know, icing or
heat or whatever, or try to The mechanisms behind at the
athletes that are using it are going to keep winning.
So so what's the protocol look like for you like you finish
your run. What what?
What happens? So I use Sonic space, there's
the best. I mean, I don't I'd like to have
a more precise or articulate word but they're the best mean
if they're they're measured to be no EMS and you know
electromagnetic frequencies that's the problem is a lot of
these infrared saunas. Look you're sitting in a damn
microwave. You're just you're just getting
baked and not a good way and not thinking, yes.
That they measure all their stuff.
They measure all their stuff. So that it's grounded and zero
EMF. And then, and then it's very,
very carefully measured to be the right, the right spectrum of
light. And so I was instantly drawn to
them. And at this point, I know, I
know Brian, the founder pretty well.
We're definitely friends Beyond any professional matter and his
story's pretty cool as well. And I've been working with them
since I mean, since just about since they've existed, as people
know them. Now, at least.
And so I I use their Faraday, which is a, it's a total EMF
blocks. It's like, it's like, you're I
don't know what to compare to. It's like you're in the bottom
of the ocean, right? You're you're grounded and you
have the infrared light. That's all very selectively
Chosen and the visible light hitting you, and then the whole
box that you're in the hole pockets on us, they call it is
EMF block. So the whole thing is as a
faraday cage so you're not getting, you're not getting
electromagnetic frequencies in there and the whole box is
grounded. So you're able to really go in
there and kind of Set from the modern world so I use the hell
out of that. And then my setup at home is I
can clip that for panel that for bulb infrared panel out of that
pocket sauna and clip it into an Incline Trainer.
I'm on the back of my Incline Trainer, I have one bulb on the
front that your quads and your knees, and then have the four
bolts in the back, and then have an incline trainer.
And then I have a single if you can visualize all this.
I have a single untreated cotton drop cloth over the whole thing,
so that I can get, it's about 85 Degrees, maybe 90 Bent.
But because it's infrared it's just basically me from the
inside out so it's like a cool day in Death Valley there or
like a, like a cool day up at really high altitude or hot
gate, I out to Vegas because that's where the sun's really
strong and that's, that's my big thing is, I am obsessed with the
heat and I had them forever. And I think that's most of the
reason why I haven't been injured since I've been
training. Even more, is the heat that I
use and recently, this block I've settled to a protocol of.
I'll sit I didn't pocket sauna or just on my treadmill.
I'll just sit in there. And get the get the infrared on
my quads, on my knees, and get it on my backside and on my
glutes. And then I'll turn and get my
thyroid, my, my heart, my my gut, and my dad's, and there's
benefits for all of these things.
So get a nice little bacon there and then right as I'm about to
start, you know, start using a single drip of sweat, basically,
I'll hop out of there and then go get my morning session and I
feel amazing and it's been, it's been the most pain free Block
that I had truly until this just freak.
Lower leg thing recently. So you do that as a warm up
basically and then you go on your run afterwards.
Yes. And there's a lot of research on
that, like the prophylactic effect, if you're getting all
that going, but you can absolutely.
You cannot beat near-infrared. I mean, if you're not using it,
it's got ridiculous research behind it.
You know, Juve is the big company that pushes all the all
the scientific literature but it's not the literature's on
their product and their product is just okay, it's fine, but saw
no spaces, far superior. And then do you like ice after
drones to do the the heat therapy before run and then ice
or what typically typically I'd be it'd be sauna for, you know,
10 to 25 minutes beforehand and then I'll go out and get my run,
and then I'll get home. And in the summer, when it's
hot, here we have Junction Creek, right behind my house.
So maybe 120 feet off. My porch is a creek that's fresh
run off. You know, we're talking, we're
talking 40 degrees Fahrenheit or so, and fresh.
Mountain runoff and the hotter, it is the quicker that runs in
the colder, that is. So I'll get my, my legs in there
may be may be baptized in there after run and then if I'm
freezing, I'll come back in Saint Amour.
And then when I'm sitting around the house I typically have a
bulb on me you know at least maybe maybe six hours a week or
so certainly certainly more than three hours a week just passive
you know if I'm answering emails or something I'll get out there.
Photon which is A single of one bulb unit of near-infrared and
I'll bake that on whatever my most concerned area is.
So right now, I'm making my lower leg, you know, when we get
off of this with this podcast, that's what I'm gonna be doing
going to be like, I'll check an e-mail, I'll do some reading and
maybe have a meditation and I'll sit there with my my broken part
right now, with a ballpoint on it and it's huge.
I mean, the the change in turnaround time.
I'd love to have a skeptical doctor.
Take a look at me or Or something like that.
I mean, I've had physical therapist.
Tell me this is good weeks and then sure enough.
Four weeks later, I'm 100% or I'm, you know, winning a race.
Mmm, what about like like Mobility like stretching and
stuff like that? Do do a lot of stretching or
anything. I'm pretty mobile person, Sunday
know. I tend to be, I tend to walk
around way more mobile than I need to be for my Sport.
And so if I was a really tight person, I could see
incorporating a certain amount of that.
But I don't think there's a there's a Benefit, once you're
already mobile, I mean, I did some martial arts growing up and
I've just always a teaching gymnastics for quite a few
years. And so I've always been
naturally kind of mobile Beyond those two and so I don't, yeah,
I will stretch something. If it needs to be stretched to
know if it really, if it's one thing that's that's tense or
tight or, you know, hip flexors I might stretch.
I do a lot of like mashing, you know, the frost ball and I'll
use a car buffer and I use a. So.
Right, which I don't know if you used one of those.
They're pretty sick. Those are These are pretty
impressive, super simple, but they, they're effective.
Yeah, yeah. I'll use that for like Active
Release on just about anything and then I do a little bit of
like, Voodoo flossing, and that sort of thing.
But no, no stretching, no Diana drills.
No, nothing really where I'm targeting.
Range of motion. All right, let's have an
attrition man. I'm curious to see what like a
typical day of eating is like with you putting this this type
of volume into the runs like what are you typically eating
from like a macro standpoint but also just like a sheer cliff.
Caloric standpoint. Yeah, I mean it's it's hard to
know. I tend to have an inverse
relationship with calories and training, volume acutely,
meaning on the days where I'm doing, you know, 30 or or more
miles across the day. I will have very few calories
because you get all the ketones flowing and all the fat cells
are open and you know, all your receptors are at the surface and
I'm just not hungry and then beyond that.
It's like I need to train again later.
So I don't want to feel lethargic and stuff.
So I tend to have a kind of inverse relationship or my days
off for my days were on real low.
Just a treadmill session in the morning and maybe shake out in
the evening. Those are my ideas were all this
eat and eat and eat and I might have a forty five hundred
calorie day. I don't track it very, very
meticulously at all anymore. But I've tracked enough in the
past and know that that's about the range.
And then, you know, I seriously might have a heavy train gets
less than 1,000 calories, I mean easily less than 1000 calories.
So the range is huge. But yeah I mean when I'm when
I'm what I call monk mode when I'm just repeating the day and
every day it's just Groundhog Day.
All right, I will do. I'll wake up, I'll do my morning
run and that's on, that's on water, on a leader water and
maybe a little bit of salt and then depending on the day I
might have pre workout or you know, beats or Something along
those lines, just something to help me through the workout and
I use a bunch of different things and cycle them to make
sure I don't have tolerance to anything.
I'm not a daily coffee drinker, or anything like that, and then
I'll get my morning run in and that might be, you know, shake
out on the, on the Red Mill or or, you know, an easy 6, Miler
or an easy, 10 miler or it might be, it might be a little bit
more epic. And then I'll get home.
And typically, I'll have I'll have sardines.
It This is a big staple. I mean, it's hard to beat the
nutritional value of sardines and just eat them straight out
of the can and I eat a lot of eggs and I'll do I'll do my
shake. I mean, peep anybody tells me on
Instagram is seen my shake at least a few times and it changed
a little bit of the seasons go by, but it's got loads in it.
I mean, right now, we're dealing with creatine and about 3 grams
of cordyceps agreement. If you're familiar with that
one. Yeah, about three pounds of
cordyceps a day and then about a gram, a lion's mane a day, and
then a gram of or half a gram or more of Thrive 6, which is a,
just a six, mushroom blend. And this is all by fresh cap and
they're they're an awesome company as well.
And so that way Easy like pasta loads or anything.
No, no definitely not. I do like my carbs if I'm going
to do and I do like them in the evening and like, this this
block I've been doing like I'll do.
I'll do like a cup of rice like uncooked rice, like a cup of
rice, so like, I don't even know how many that is cooked, you
know, quite a bit. But I like to sit somewhere
around, 100 to 150 grams of carbohydrate a day.
And that's really the only macro that I measure with any
consistency or any Precision at all.
Hmm, at this point, I've been doing it for long enough.
You know like I said I started A high-fat game in 2010 our before
2011 Gap here. And so, yeah, that's it at this
point. I mean, I know, I know when my
Staples are like, Mikey for shake and, you know, I have my
levels data, which is a constant glucose monitor.
I have my constant glucose monitor data if anything, my
keeper Shake drops, my blood sugar.
So it's, I mean, there's no. I mean, I'm fermenting the milk
until dinner. Here.
I mean, it's, there's nothing left of this milk.
So that's my base for my shakes, and then it's way.
And I might even have grass-fed, butter powder in there from
garden the life or, or, you know, just just a huge heaping,
a mushrooms in there then. And so, yeah.
It's very, very, very low carb throughout the first part of the
day. And then, in the evening, I
like, you know, I might have, I'm a huge fan of dark
chocolate. I've enjoyed some rice, just
because it goes well with with meals, and I can lather it in
grass fed butter. You can't beat that.
And then yeah, if I'm going to use cards, I tend to go towards
towards the sweeter and I mean, a lot for a sweet potato covered
in butter but I really don't have any qualms with like a more
sugary options. You know, I have no problem if
it's a day and I'm like, ringing up food and I had to work out
this morning. I have no qualms about, like,
grab a Snickers bar, midday or early afternoon and getting in
there. As long as I've had, my
nutrition burst in my, you know, hit your fat first.
First and then hit your micronutrients you know right
behind that. Then I have no problems with you
know, I don't I don't think my liver knows the difference,
right? Well if your Bargain Hunt plus
miles a week, I mean you're probably, you're probably, you
know, just continuing to state of somewhat mild ketosis because
I mean you're not really holding in any glycogen stored for any
length of time that the idea to is.
And I think that's why it's settled in the numbers that I
have, right? If the average office worker can
be, you know, everybody uses 50 grams and Say, oh, well, you
know, you're they get dogmatic about it like, oh well, you're
not, you're not Cheeto, because you're doing 200 grams a day or
100 grams a day. And it's like, well, yeah, but
I'm also running almost 20 miles a day or not.
Might, I might have a day regularly where I'm doing, 30
miles or more and that's I'm not screwing around like, some of
that is some serious intensity. And, you know, you, I think
you've seen some of it on Instagram.
It's like this, there's a lot of five and a half minute miles
going on these days. And that's, that's pretty solid
intensity. Especially when you add an
altitude or do you know this this whole training block had
averaged somewhere around 9,500 feet of gain a week, which is,
you know, nothing but Mountain Runner standards.
But as a crap ton by Roadrunner standards, which is the races
I'm leaning towards right now or the next race on a track, right?
All that adds intensity, you know, if you're running uphill
on a gravel road at 8,000 feet, you're burning carbs.
I don't care who you are. There's something like you're
going to be burning some carbs. So even if I'm only burning, 20%
of my calories from carbs or 10% my calories from carbs, Which is
impressive if that's the case and that's about what it is.
I mean, I know my data and that's still a lot.
You know, if you're doing if you're doing 20 miles a day and
Burnin 20 times 20, you know that's that's no joke.
So 20 yeah, 20 times 20 divided by 5 and that's 100 grams of car
burnt. So to get me into the normal.
Ketogenic range of, you know, 40, 40 grams a day, or what have
you, 15 grams a day ever effective.
Then I might be, I might be doing 150 grams a day for
extended periods and that's his ketogenic for me, is 40 is for
someone else. Yeah, it's definitely all
relative. I would be curious to see like,
I don't know. I've got this theory that if you
just totally, you know, bypass the car blow together, your
body, just adapts to what you're what you're providing it.
So like, I wonder how your body would respond if you just, you
know, took them out entirely and then gave your body time to
adapt to having zero carbs. Basically, what that would have
an impact on with regard to the Ultras I've done it.
Hey, my first, my first few races after going truly, truly
ketogenic were legitimately ketogenic races.
I mean, I was, I was 20 grams a day or maybe 30 grams a day
through nut Butters and stuff of effective card for sincerely
ears. I mean more than a two year
period 2000. I'm horribly Unbound by.
I probably probably 2,000. Yeah, 2012.
Wish. I'd have to pull up the running
log to something, but I mean, I was doing I was doing 200 grams
of carb a week for four years, I mean for a really really long
time and that's with training hundred miles a week, a lot of
the time and then doing Ultras but I just found that the the
Strategic card really does. I don't know if it's if it's the
insulin or if it's like General Governor where your body says,
hey there's plenty of energy so we can we can allocate resources
to recover fully or what have you or where exactly this, you
know this mechanism lies but it works.
I mean the Carbs are Next Level. It's interesting.
It's interesting I had L the real real long stuff.
I mean you know you can't I'm lean enough and you can't store
enough carbs to get you through like a 50-miler when you're
really running hard and it's better that you have those
carbs. So have I you know on the
genetic level at this point you know not just not just the
enzymes and I have had real but on the genetic level gene
expression. If you have the base for fat
metabolism, you can bomb some serious carbohydrates and all
they're going to do is sit in your system until you need them.
So all your, you know, you up hills will be a little smoother.
Your brain will be a little sharper your Mi 42-mile. 50 will
go a little better and you'll have to eat less during and
that's a big one too. Is you could carbs help, you
know, at that top end The carp still help and it's the
metabolic flexibility that we're looking for.
So the, you know, the standard wisdom and also running is 250
to 350 calories. An hour that's a ton.
I mean, I don't want to eat. I want to run if I want to be
free I don't have to carry those calories or plan for those
calories. Whereas you know guys like guys
like me or guys like zakah means that Zach's been eating even
less than I have. Been these last few years.
It seems and I've been trying to increase it.
He's been trying to decrease it looks like but he's also a
Getting with longer stuff, you know, 100 Miler, it makes sense
to burn a little bit more fat than you would for a 50-miler.
This is 50 miles. You could be a little quicker
and a little dirtier for the for a five hour event or, you know,
less than five our event. Hopefully.
So getting, it's still only like, 80 calories an hour at
most, and that's real, real nice.
And that's just enough to keep it sharp and topped off and let
your body know. Hey, we're safe, we're good,
we're fed and we can hammer. Is interesting, man.
I don't I don't know that much about the body from a
physiological standpoint with the with a long Endurance
Sports, I want to learn more about it because I'm, I've got
these theories. I want to test these things out
but like it's totally outside my normal wheelhouse.
I mean, with bodybuilding, like I've gone versus your car but I
haven't noticed any any loss in performance whatsoever.
But I don't know how much that translates over to the, you
know, the endurance world. It's just totally different
Spectrum. Yeah.
I think I think what you'd run into with a lot of endurance
athletes is you might not need the carbs for race day, but you
will need them for training. So you know, when you, if you're
going for like 5K 5K Runners going to have enough glycogen in
there to perform well. And once you found adapts to
probably perform to basically a hundred percent of the capacity,
may be 100 percent of the capacity, especially when you
control for things like wait, I mean if you can if you can drop
a few, you know, 23 pounds of water weight, that's huge for a
runner. And especially now track runner
short distance Runner. So something like that might
come into play, but then some of the training is just so
glycolytic that if your body is hex, hey, because your body's
conservative, right? Everybody, you sex, hey, we're
not going to make it through 10 by a mile at this pace or 10 by
a kilometer. At this pace, it's going to
start slowing you down when it might not need to just because
it's conservative. So some carbohydrates extra on
there is probably, I would think unavoidable for the tippy.
Level, but it would be interesting.
I think the, the question you run into is how much fat
metabolism do you lose for say, you know, to carb up so weak,
you know, probably a lot. How much do you lose for one car
before week? You know how, how long do those
cards stay in your system? So, I mean, that's that's where
we're living in the future has some perks, right?
I mean, we have access to like constant glucose monitoring, and
we're real close to having a lot of things that are just much
more easily accessible and privatized.
So yeah. Yeah.
That's an interesting point because like, like you said,
there's, there's, there's so much give-and-take and like, we
just, I don't know. I like when you look at the
research and all the studies done, like nobody's going to
really be able to have that access to, you know, these
participants that are willing to go through.
It legitimately long period of Quito adaptation to really tap
into what that research would illustrate.
So it's kind of like a catch-22 on all fronts.
I felt like I was getting benefit for easily a year.
I mean even like, six months in was Than three months in 100%
and 12 months in was better than six months in, and that was kind
of eye-opening for me. Yeah, I mean, for me, like, I've
been doing this now strictly, you know, strictly keto for five
or six years and it's it's so much more significant in
obvious, what I'm feeling and experiencing now than what.
I was, you know, six months in one year into year and three
year in and like people they just assume that they're, you
know, at the Pinnacle at the Zenith of their level of kiddo
adaptation. They've only been doing it for
two weeks. It's like no, no, no.
Yeah, keep going. Hey, if he comes out one time,
so I'm good. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Even even on the race day, I mean, I felt I felt like the,
the gels that I was taking on race day were hitting me harder
and that's huge. I mean, normally you take a gel
and 200 calories, you know, 25 grams of carbohydrate and within
five minutes, you feel great. And this is for a standard car
burner and within 15 minutes, you're like stable at best.
And by Five minutes or so, you're hungry.
Then you're actively hung your, your building and building and
building that blood sugar, because you're consuming so much
that it's actually going up, you know, you're exercising.
So your blood sugar is elevated and then you're eating carbs,
your blood sugar is elevated, and then you're you're just like
building a building buildings, blood sugar until your brain
says dude we don't want we don't want a 130 blood sugar right now
though. So it'll hit that insulin out
and then you're screwed I mean at that point your you can't
burn fat when you got insulin going and then When you're
you're having you think man? I feel like garbage, I must be
bonking some more carbs and then you get more insulin and then
you're just on a downward spiral until hopefully finish the race
or you drop out. Yeah.
It's I don't know.
I can't imagine how anybody that is knowledgeable at all with
what all the research that's out there.
That's just doing a standard standard you know running like
if they're not leveraging the power of tapping into their
stored fat for fuel. It's just it's just they're
shooting themselves in the foot. Yeah, well it's not mark.
I mean it, so it's a little bit more marketable.
Now, because there's at least, like lokar products and and
there's something to sell at least now, but that's a harder,
right? I mean, even even if someone's
eating keto brick a day, right? That's peanuts compared to
selling them six meals a day. Right?
I mean that's that's like zero still.
So the selling people the ability to burn their own body
fat you know your that's why you're seeing so many anxieties
Ketone. Supplements is people are really
trying to Market that And sell that.
But in the end of the day, it's you, it's you and you and you
take you to cover your bases in a sustainable, you know?
Hopefully, delicious way because we're wired to like food, you
shouldn't have to hate life for the rest of, you know, for the
rest of your life. And yeah, I think I think that's
what's holding it back because it's just not marketable.
It's so much better to sell somebody.
You know, if gels are two dollars a piece and you're
selling somebody four of them an hour for their events, and then
you're telling them, they have to train with them.
You're getting that person on the hook.
I mean, that's a, that's a lot. Yeah, it's true for sure.
That's why it's so cool. Like I don't know.
I really just taken an interest in.
That's why I love natural bodybuilding.
It's like let's strip away all the new ones.
Let's just go to your core and see what you can do.
Optimally with nutrition and training alone and then really
Pinnacle eyes that and you just feel.
So it's liberating because you don't feel like you're, you
know, just stuck tethered at the heel to all these different
supplements and gels and anabolic steroids, like, don't
need all that stuff. Yeah.
I love it. I love it.
Well, what you got in the pipeline, man.
What's the Horizon guy for you? So we got a, let's see.
Some more Bodywork on this this bringing lower leg that's first
up man. Yeah we got it.
We got a guy in town Durango movement and he is a frickin
Witch Doctor, man. If I get you out here to visit
for a little train station, will get you the session with him.
The guy, the guy is, I mean I go in there and just like shrug my
shoulders at him, he's like Alright lie down and I get out
of there and I'm like you don't know how you did it and it's
like, I'm so I'm such a skeptic and such an academic.
I don't buy all this hippie crap but it's like man.
Guy's a freakin Witch Doctor, dude, because so good.
So I gotta fix this leg. That's, that's first before I do
anything. I can't even be a person until I
fix this thing, but it feels way better today after a session
yesterday. Yeah.
And then we got um, actually I
haven't seen my parents in a while.
I got them coming into town and then we got a camp coming July 6
of the 12th. I got a bunch of people coming
up just to just to train case in at my place and, you know, we
got recovery, Boots, the house and we got muscle scrapers and
we got, you know, the so So bright and we got we got the
creek right in the backyard and the sauna in the house and it's
a perfect place to train because I have demanded and I've needed
a perfect place to train. So I've created one.
So I really, really enjoy sharing that with people and
it's a it's a donation only thing, I mean as of right now
it's zero dollars in my pocket for all this.
So as of right now it'll cost me money but I'm going to have
somewhere around 15 people up here, train, casein and go up.
Some people set up tents in the back.
And Well, some cop set up an extra bedroom and the people set
up in a family room and just take over my house for a week
and just let them enjoy the mountains and the cool, what the
cool mornings or you know, cold overnight the nice, the nice
high altitude, son and a little train case in here and we're
looking again, I'm in Durango Colorado.
So I'm Way Way, Southwest Colorado Four Corners.
I'm actually like, I'm about to halfway between Denver and
Phoenix. Got, you got you got you?
Yeah, that is the perfect place, man.
It's awesome. I mean, I can be to Vegas.
A short drive, I can be to Denver the, with the reasonable
drive, I can get a phoenix, the reasonable dried Salt Lake City,
you know, I can be in the desert like true proper desert with
canyons and Red Rock and 45 minutes.
I can be up in the mountains where there's where it's out.
Pine trees can't grow and 20 and I mean, I can run to those
places, right? It's this.
It's a hell of a playground. Yeah, man.
I mean, it's like the ideal ultramarathon, you know,
training ground. That's that's cool.
That you bring those people into that, that's like getting the
community gather getting the Lambert of effort.
That's what it's all about. Absolutely, absolutely.
It's just it's so enriching. It'll help me through my
training and help them through their some.
And yeah, there's a there's a place Chima.
Yo, is the largest largest pilgrimage site have once, and
the Western Hemisphere probably, but certainly in North America
and they get whatever it is. Tens of thousands of people
there every year. And this isn't any significant
weekend or anything. I'm going to do at the end of
this month, but I'm going to do. I've considered doing the
pilgrimage route from my House and it's almost 200 miles.
So it would be a little bit over 200 miles of getting the stops
and places where I could sleep every day.
But I'm going to do that. At the end of this month, some
modification of the route, there's a Scenic byway that goes
from Taos. New Mexico to Chima Yoda next
coaches, where it is. And it's this old Catholic
church and it's like Pueblo style.
I mean beautiful, beautiful spot.
And I just kind of think, like, I don't have a hard time putting
faith and really anything, which you could probably tell with
this. But yeah I think of enough
people draw power from a place. Then it gains significance.
Right. We're in viewing it with power
that rather it had it or not, we're creating something
totally. So, I just being that.
It's basically my backyard as far as things go.
I gotta do that pilgrimage route.
So I'll probably cut it to like 50 to 100 miles, but I'm going
to go run across the Southwest for a few days, the end of this
month and that's, that's the next cool adventure that will
be, you know, people will see media from on on.
So, Social and and all that. But that's, there's actually a
route, we mapped out. It was like 60 miles and it
starts at a big, the biggest Buddhist temple in this area
with a big gampa. And, you know, prayer Flags the
whole nine yards and that tends to be a little closer to my, to
my, what I can buy into and it'd be fun to started that Buddhist
temple and then run to Chimayo. I mean, that would that be some
kind of fun spiritual, you know symbolic.
I don't know. The world needs that kind of
energy right now, I think. Yeah, totally man, you can be
documenting all this one like Yeah, yeah.
So I have a media person and she's going to be she's going to
be crew and me and make sure I don't make sure I don't starve
or turn into a raisin out there. And I don't know if we'll crash
in the car or, or set up at any age and I was a lot of public
land on this route. We were, I am and maybe we'll
couch-surf it. Somebody offers, and we'll see
what happens. We'll just let the universe take
care of us, basically. Yeah, we'll make a little short
film for it and then we'll be dropping Instagram stuff, and
that'll be the end of this month.
So, that'll be really, really Pretty very cool man.
Well, I'm excited to see that's for sure.
Where can people go to follow you and follow along and
journeyman Instagrams? The preferred that's that's been
what I've been. What?
I've been dying my teeth into right now.
So that's at Anthony Kunkel, that's KU n.
Ke L when we can we can drop them a link in there as well.
Yeah, yeah. Put that link in the show notes.
Well sweet man. I'm excited for you.
And I definitely want to keep in touch and follow along because
it's something that that interest me for sure, even
though I'm no Runners. It's cool.
Seeing what the human body is capable of and then Coastline
you. You know Buster these plateaus?
Yeah I think it's the best kind of energy for you.
I mean any Runner I think can benefit from dealing with
certainly the like hippy end of the elites of the people who are
really when you have somebody and you know the ultra running
Community is doing our part, on both ends up here positive and
negative but there's a lot of like very harsh energy out there
of you know I was a weak little pansy and I crushed myself and
now I'm bulletproof and it's like I just don't think that's
the right message, you know, I think And I think that's very
harsh, and I think people can can get the same results out of
being, gentle, with themselves and this this soft approach.
I really think him can move some mountains and so yeah.
Yeah. Well I think it's, I think it's
good for you to be around to put yourself in around some of these
also Runner types because you'll you'll pick up some mental
groundwork that would have that would have taken you years to
get biennials come out of the gates with it.
So I hope that's valued people shoot, yeah.
Well we'll keep spreading apart. A message Man and keep putting
those miles in. Yeah, yeah.
Maybe we can talk after the 50-miler.
Hey, I'm now, let me go run. The goal is the top five
all-time. So the goal is to put world
record on the table for myself, for the next, for the next year,
with this next performance. So we'll see how it goes in Late
July, will you get that leg Hilda, man?
You like said, you're bulletproof.
So keep on keep on ground and you make it happen.
Yeah man. See you brother talk soon?