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What's going on ladies and 
gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, 

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savage.com. 
And today we've got special 

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guest Ryan Young on the line. 
Ryan and I met at my first 

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competition in 2023, the Utah 
Show. 

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He had a client backstage that 
he was helping with and I just, 

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you know, connected with him. 
We were talking quite a bit 

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backstage. 
I wanted to get him on the 

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podcast and just pick his brain 
a little bit further about his 

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competitive journey, how far 
he's come within the sport of 

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bodybuilding, what his nutrition
looks like, what his training 

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looks like, what his first few 
experiences with bodybuilding 

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consisted of, some of the 
mistakes he's made, the lessons 

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he's learned along the way. 
So yeah, just a a cool casual 

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conversation of two 
bodybuilders, bro in and out on 

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the the podcast here. 
So I've got no depth. 

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He will take something from it 
if bodybuilding is of any 

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interest to you. 
So that further delay, sit back,

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relax, enjoy the conversation 
with Ryan 

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and we are live. 
Ryan, how are you, man? 

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I'm doing good, man. 
How's it going? 

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It is going wonderful. 
Well, wonderful well. 

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So to get listeners a little 
context, you and I met at what, 

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what show was that? 
That was the first show that. 

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I Utah shows your first show. 
Yeah, the Utah show. 

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And that was, that was a 
different that was what was the 

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Federation OCB? 
The OCB, yeah. 

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That was the. 
Only classic Physique. 

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That's right, the classic 
physique. 

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I went in to do bodybuilding and
then I had to do classic last 

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minute because there was no 
bodybuilders except me. 

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So I didn't want to compete by 
myself, so I switched over to 

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classic last minute You. 
Want to know a funny thing about

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that is. 
What's that? 

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They actually switched their 
standards to the point where you

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have to hide your glutes. 
You have so you're on the right 

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path with the with that look. 
Huh. 

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Interesting. 
Yeah, They they. 

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'Cause you know that you had the
longer shorts and that. 

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Yeah, yeah, I had. 
And that's what they're kind of 

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going for, is that kind of like 
covered up look, because a lot 

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of people are pulling the 
classic shorts up really short, 

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showing glutes, and they're 
trying to go away from that, 

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apparently. 
It's so weird, man. 

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Like all these different 
federations had their own little

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spin on things and some of I 
could totally get behind some of

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them. 
It's like, I don't really think 

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that's necessary. 
I do like the classic physique 

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division as a division. 
A lot of the federations in 

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that, like the WNBF Natural 
Federation for instance, they 

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don't even have a classic 
division because in their mind 

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it's like, look, if you're a 
natural competitor, you're going

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to have that classic look 
anyways within the bodybuilding.

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Bodybuilding is bodybuilding. 
Yeah, which I can totally get 

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behind that messaging too. 
Yeah, but it isn't. 

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Yeah, definitely. 
Yeah, man. 

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The the OCB is a little, a 
little different, man. 

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I don't know. 
Some things I didn't I don't 

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like is how they don't compare 
the top two people next to each 

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other. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Thought that was a little weird.
That are you typically doing the

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OCB shows or what is your 
primary federation? 

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So that was my first 
bodybuilding show ever. 

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I did a Men's Physique show back
in 2017 with the MPCI, did three

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shows that year, 16, 2016, 2017.
I did three shows and it was a 

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good experience. 
But you know, it's totally 

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different than like actually 
bodybuilding where you have to 

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hit, you know, more than just 
the front and back those and I 

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was just kind of nervous to get 
out there and have to show my 

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legs. 
So I felt like the OCB Classic, 

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only BM5 mandatory poses 
compared to the 10 in 

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bodybuilding was a easier route.
I don't know it was not easier, 

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but it was wasn't as big of a 
jump to go right in the 

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bodybuilding. 
And I did the Denver show, the 

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Denver OCB Classic show, and 
they told me I should have done 

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bodybuilding, but well, you, I 
don't know. 

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I don't think my, I don't think 
my conditioning was that good. 

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You definitely had the classic 
look, especially when you're 

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rocking that mustache. 
Yeah, I don't know that the 

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mustache had to go. 
And yeah, I don't know, Just 

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because you have a mustache 
doesn't mean you're classic. 

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But I agree with some of the 
critique they gave me. 

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They, you know, they said they, 
oh, you just look like a 

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bodybuilder. 
The way you're flexing your 

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quad, kind of weird feedback, 
but like, I do hit poses 

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straight on compared to like, 
you know some people in 

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classical like, you know, twist 
the hip and you know like the 

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front double bicep. 
The guy who won compared to me, 

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he definitely had some like 
twist and flare to his double 

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bicep compared to me who was 
just hitting it straight on. 

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But they told me I was true 
conditioned and I just thought 

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that was really shitty feedback 
and anyone that looks at my legs

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could could have told you that 
like I still had more bad. 

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I mean it's just I wasn't it 
wasn't that, you know I thought 

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I was pretty. 
I thought I fit the standards 

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pretty good because they said 
they looking for like a softer 

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legs. 
But when I saw you, man, you did

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you. 
You should have definitely. 

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I feel like you definitely 
should have won because just you

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know, it was the beginning of 
your prep. 

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You weren't as shredded and it 
was a really good look that you 

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did, that you brought to Utah, 
man. 

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Like I said at the time, it was 
probably the best natural 

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bodybuilder I've ever seen in 
person, you know? 

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I appreciate that, man. 
It means a lot. 

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It was it was kind of strange 
because like you know, I was, I 

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was going in for bodybuilding 
and I was trying to get as 

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conditioned as possible and 
there was no competitors there. 

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So I competed in Classic, so I'd
have competitors to be against. 

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And the feedback was pretty much
that I was too big and too 

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conditioned for Classic. 
I mean one I I went and talked 

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to all the judges afterwards and
one of the judges said, look, if

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you had just gone up there and 
simply not flexed like hit the 

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poses but didn't actually flex 
anything, you probably would 

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have won because. 
So weird. 

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Yeah, I bet that was kind of. 
Strange. 

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So weird to say because like, 
have you seen the OCB pros 

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though? 
I have not looked at them much, 

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no. 
Brother, they're big. 

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Yeah, it's. 
Huge. 

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The bodybuilders, man. 
Like. 

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Yeah, and some of the natural. 
Guys are crazy goods. 

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Like they're huge. 
And like, I would still have to 

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get bigger and leaner to even 
compete against those people. 

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And for a smaller show, say that
you know you were too big and 

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lean for the division. 
It's like, but if you put me up 

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against pros, I'm just an 
average joke. 

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Kinda, you know, like, I don't 
know. 

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And there's just that that just 
didn't. 

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And not not being able to stand 
next to one and two, like not 

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standing next to each other was 
just so odd to me that you 

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wouldn't do that. 
Because the way the way a 

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bodybuilding show is set up is 
that they come in early and they

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set the lights up and they point
it in the center of the stage. 

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And that's where the best 
lighting's going to be. 

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And to not take the top two 
people and put them next to each

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other in the middle of the stage
where the best lighting is to 

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compare them is just so odd. 
And then to double down on the 

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notion that you don't do it. 
And to say we do it so the 

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judges can have more freedom. 
They see some. 

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They give some bullshit 
explanation of like more freedom

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of thought. 
Like for the judges where just 

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because you're in the center 
doesn't mean you're winning. 

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But like, I mean, it's a 
competition. 

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And like, aren't we all fighting
to get into the center? 

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Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of 
weird, man. 

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Like I I mean, I like each 
federation for its own reasons, 

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but the. 
More I like. 

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I can. 
I can get beyond all natural 

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organizations. 
Yeah, yeah, for sure. 

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I think any, any, any press, any
media, any forward momentum 

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within the Natural Federations 
I'm all for like I think 

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promoting that is paramount 
importance. 

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Now having done multiple 
different shows from multiple 

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different federations, both NPC 
and natural, I definitely 

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resonate the most with the WNBF 
Federation. 

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I mean I feel like they've just,
they've got it dialed in. 

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There are certainly WNBF shows 
with promoters that aren't as 

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crisp as I would like things to 
be, but as a federation in its 

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totality, I feel like that's 
been a pretty solid federation 

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for sure. 
Yeah. 

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So like when I actually first 
got into the fitness back in 

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2015 when I looked into natural 
shows, there was a, there was an

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IMBF show out in Colorado at the
time, but that was the Latin 

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little died and that was the 
little. 

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I think 2016 was the last year 
they did it. 

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And now there's no shows. 
And OCBS came out strong with a 

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few shows. 
And I think just having the 

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classic, having that option for 
the classic and and not being 

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there in other organizations has
made it more And. 

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And I think the fact that, you 
know, there's only 5 mandatory 

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poses, you're not, you know, 
having to show, you know, your 

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glute, you have to be shredded 
to your glutes. 

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Because at the end of the day, 
you know, the classic division 

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is totally subjective. 
I mean like you said you think 

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you resonate more. 
The WMP like their their 

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criteria is way like they don't 
do classic because the the 

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criteria they want you lean 
shredded and you know they 

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compare you you know and how 
much muscle you have and you 

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know and like your ability to 
hit the poses and stay 

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conditioned. 
And while classic physique is 

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basically who can contour the 
fat the best around, the muscles

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still look aesthetic. 
Yeah, the aestheticism is key. 

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I think with everything they're 
like I've seen a lot of 

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bodybuilders just get so blocky,
more so in the non tested region

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for sure. 
But yeah, I've always wanted 

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just to have that that aesthetic
look and if you're natural, 

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you're not gonna have these 
overblown proportions. 

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So it's it's much easier to 
achieve that without overdoing 

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it. 
From a natural standpoint, 

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obviously it's much healthier, 
which is what I'm an advocate 

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for. 
And again, I don't ever want to 

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throw shade to people that are 
not natural. 

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But I've certainly taken that 
route and I just can get behind 

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that messaging more because at 
the end of the day, I want this 

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to be a healthy sport that leads
to longevity as opposed to a 

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shorter lifespan. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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You know, I I always say, you 
know, it's all about why, why 

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you got into it. 
You know, there's, I mean, there

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are some people that get into it
and, you know, that's all they 

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have in life and they just want 
to be as big and as possible. 

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And, you know, by all means, 
but, you know, the reason why I 

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got into it was, you know, to be
healthier. 

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So I can't imagine, you know, 
having to do things to the point

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where like you're worrying about
your health. 

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You have to go and get your 
blood. 

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Like, I mean, I I, I never go 
get my blood checked. 

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And the reason is that because I
live, I lived a healthy 

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lifestyle. 
You know, eating healthy, going 

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to the gym every day, not every 
day, but you know, staying 

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active. 
And I, you know, couple years 

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ago, I did go get my blood 
checked and everything was like 

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directly in the middle. 
And you know, that's the beauty 

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of natural bodybuilding because 
you know, you know, granted it's

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not, you know, it's not healthy 
to get shredded. 

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You know, it's never going to be
a healthy situation if you're 

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natural or not, but. 
Yeah, when you're sub 5% body 

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fat, things start shutting down.
Oh yeah, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sure

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you know that. 
What? 

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So what is? 
What is too shredded in your 

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opinion, 'cause I seen you man, 
and you're like calipers and 

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everything out like 2-3 percent 
for like weeks. 

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Yeah, I was definitely way down 
low in a body fat for an 

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extended period of time, 'cause 
that first show in Utah, that 

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was when was. 
That you were so lean. 

225
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,360
That that was the. 
You were lean in that show. 

226
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,040
Yeah, I was pretty lean then. 
I think I competed then at like 

227
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:10,640
1:59 and then I got down to I 
think my lowest was 151.2 I 

228
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,800
believe, but my lowest stage 
weight I think was like 153 or 

229
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:19,680
154 in in November. 
So and and that Utah show that 

230
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:25,000
was when was it, that was the 
beginning of September, is that 

231
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,920
right? 
September, I think. 

232
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,600
So yeah, that's a pretty long 
time to be that lean. 

233
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,360
That's certainly not optimal. 
It's just kind of how things 

234
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,520
worked out on my end. 
I mean, I was prepping for 33 

235
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:36,720
weeks when it was all said and 
done. 

236
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,280
So that was a long prep for 
sure. 

237
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,160
But as a natural athlete, man, 
like when you get down below, 

238
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,920
when you get down below 10%, 
that's where you're not really 

239
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,200
optimizing for muscle building 
in my opinion. 

240
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,120
Like when you're leaner than, 
you know, 10%, when you're in 

241
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,800
the single digits, then when you
start getting below 5%, that's 

242
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,960
certainly where things start to,
you know, become detrimental 

243
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,240
from like a hormonal standpoint,
metabolic standpoint, like you 

244
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,000
don't want to sustain that for 
any significant length of time. 

245
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:13,440
Yeah, yeah and yeah man, you You
by far were one of the most 

246
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,280
shredded bodybuilders I've ever 
seen and think that like you're 

247
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:25,640
even 7 lbs lighter at Worlds. 
It's just like wow, do you think

248
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,000
you would have brought a better 
if you would have came in at the

249
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,480
1A higher one 50s it would have 
been a better package I. 

250
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,000
Don't know man. 
It it kind of goes all back to 

251
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,680
the subjective nature of the 
sport. 

252
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,520
Like I was definitely on the 
lower end of my weight class at 

253
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,280
Worlds. 
I I feel like I was certainly, 

254
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,360
you know, on par with the. 
Leaners. 

255
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,120
You're close to almost ban them.
Ban them if they were to do 

256
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,480
that. 
Yeah, yeah, I would have, 

257
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:48,560
definitely. 
I was. 

258
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,560
I was skirting on that edge, for
sure. 

259
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,760
Yeah, you would have definitely 
been fighting in the top if you 

260
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,360
were in the Bantam, though. 
Yeah, If I was in the Bantam 

261
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:57,360
way, it'd have been all over. 
But they. 

262
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:58,680
Didn't even have been a big 
Bantam boy. 

263
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,920
I would have been a big Bantam, 
but I mean, for me, it's like I 

264
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,480
wanted to just become the 
leanest I'd ever been, like no 

265
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:08,920
questions asked. 
I wanted to be the leanest guy 

266
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,520
on stage, full stop. 
No doubt about it. 

267
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,040
Like, I knew that I wasn't going
to be the biggest, and I'm never

268
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,240
the biggest, but I wanted to 
bring that conditioning and I 

269
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,120
feel like I certainly did that 
now. 

270
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,880
In doing that, I certainly 
sacrificed some fullness because

271
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,720
you just simply can't have both.
And there's going to be people 

272
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,800
that be like, yeah, but if you 
had carbs, you'd fill out more. 

273
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,400
No, no, I mean, if you're if 
you're that lean, you're going 

274
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,760
to sacrifice some fullness. 
That's just simply how it works.

275
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,320
But I feel like I was able to 
check the box for me, which was 

276
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,320
just to become the leanest I 
possibly could. 

277
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,080
I mean, I was trying to become 
the leanest man in the on planet

278
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,160
Earth at that point in time. 
And I think I certainly was for 

279
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,560
that point in time, but now that
I'm eating more, I've got my 

280
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,960
reverse diet in check now. 
I feel like I I like the way I 

281
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,720
feel and perform much better at 
at this weight and and caloric 

282
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,080
intake for sure. 
Yeah. 

283
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,920
So do you eat like any fruits at
all or? 

284
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,560
No man, I haven't had a fruit. 
I can't tell the last I've had a

285
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,160
fruit I haven't had like a carb.
I have trace carbs in the foods 

286
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,760
I eat, but I haven't had like an
actual carbohydrate based meal, 

287
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,920
in which case the majority of 
the calories on a meal come from

288
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,400
carbs in over 8 years now. 
Yeah, no, I I look at the things

289
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,360
you post and you know the way 
you, you know, just like 

290
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,880
significantly up the fat and the
proteins. 

291
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,200
And you know, I always say, you 
know the best diet is always 

292
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,520
going to be the one that works 
for you and it's obviously 

293
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,680
working very well for you. 
You know, it's definitely, you 

294
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,920
know, the one that works. 
So like to say I go, if you had 

295
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,760
carbs, would you look better? 
I mean, it's so hard to say 

296
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,720
because, you know, this is the 
what works for you and this is 

297
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,480
what is what was, how was your 
physique before you started the 

298
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,400
keto diet? 
Yeah. 

299
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,320
I mean, I feel like it's 
improved significantly. 

300
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,280
Oh, for sure. 
I mean, I used to compete with 

301
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,560
carbs. 
Like, I I I've been bodybuilding

302
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,000
now for 15 years. 
My first show was in 2012. 

303
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,720
That was all with a, you know, 
bro diet, clean eating approach.

304
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:10,760
My first. 
Have you always done 

305
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,160
bodybuilding? 
Yeah, yeah, I always did 

306
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,359
bodybuilding. 
I have done classic too, but 

307
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,280
I've always done. 
I've never done a physique show,

308
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,319
but I've I've always about half 
the time I've been bodybuilding 

309
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,079
has been, you know, Keto now 
I've been bodybuilding 15 years,

310
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:28,560
been keto now for for over 8. 
So just over half of it's been 

311
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,320
keto. 
But when I competed, you know, 

312
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,800
with carbs, it's not like I was 
filling out more. 

313
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,600
I had a a softer look. 
I never got as lean as I did 

314
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,400
now. 
I'd lost more strength in the 

315
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,960
prep than I have now with Keto, 
so I I can confidently say that 

316
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,760
I look, feel and perform much 
better with a ketogenic approach

317
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,720
than what I was doing with carbs
prior to. 

318
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,520
Yeah, no, I I think the biggest 
thing that in a lot of people's 

319
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,000
diet is they just a lot of 
people just typically don't 

320
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,640
yield enough protein. 
And you know with the keto diet,

321
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,880
with the, you know everything 
revolving around and the guy you

322
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,920
know, I'm all for you know your 
protein coming from animal meat,

323
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,240
you know, and I I, you know, I 
if you're going to get your 

324
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,600
fats, I'm off where the fats 
come in from animal meat. 

325
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,400
And I would just find myself 
hungry all the time. 

326
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,440
I feel like anytime. 
It's weird, man. 

327
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,720
Like, once you become fat 
adapted, your body is able to 

328
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,760
tap into your own stored fat. 
And any dietary fat that you 

329
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,720
consume and the energy that you 
get from that is much more of a 

330
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,680
sustained energy than what you 
would get from, you know, bolus 

331
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,040
of carbohydrates or sugar or 
something like that, because it 

332
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,920
just burns more slowly. 
So a lot of people assume they 

333
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,960
wouldn't get full. 
But once you switch over, you're

334
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,240
eating much less food volume, 
but you actually have a much 

335
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,000
more satisfying sense of, you 
know, true satiety. 

336
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,560
Like, there were times when I 
was eating carbs and I would 

337
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,800
have these massive amounts of 
like, vegetation, huge salads, 

338
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,080
just a bunch of volume, but it 
and I would feel bloated, Like I

339
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,800
felt full from like a volume 
standpoint. 

340
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,480
But it wasn't ever like a deep, 
satisfying fullness, and I think

341
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,040
you got to have the fat and 
protein for that. 

342
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:18,240
Yeah, no, I agree 100%. 
Yeah, no, I agree. 

343
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,920
I, you know, just talking to you
and everything makes me realize 

344
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,400
how much bullshit carbs I eat in
my day-to-day basis and how it 

345
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,240
really doesn't satisfy me. 
And if I were just to have more,

346
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,840
you know, meals with, you know, 
more meat and everything like 

347
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,640
that, I would be fuller overall.
Totally man. 

348
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,400
And and just for the listener's 
sake, when I met you at that 

349
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,960
show, you didn't compete at that
show with me, but you had a 

350
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,880
client that was competing at 
that show, correct? 

351
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:50,680
Well, not a client. 
You know, I actually competed 

352
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,600
against him in the Denver show 
and but we were, we were friends

353
00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,880
before that and he just wanted 
some help going into the Utah 

354
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,800
show. 
So I mean client would indicate 

355
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,560
I'm getting paid, right? 
Yeah. 

356
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,960
Or or just maybe it's a pro bono
client. 

357
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,040
Just somebody. 
You're helping. 

358
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,880
Yeah. 
You know I'm just a Jim bro. 

359
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,440
Helping a Jim bro. 
I can't say that. 

360
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,400
You know, I'm you know, I I know
all the bells and whistles and 

361
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,200
I'm a wizard or anything. 
But yeah, he just needed 

362
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,800
somewhat they they gave him some
similar feedback in Denver. 

363
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,000
They said that he was too 
shredded and he should have done

364
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,760
bodybuilding, which is insane 
because this kid is very 

365
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:41,080
classic. 
The way he poses is classic and 

366
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,600
he looks great. 
Yeah, he was conditioned, you 

367
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,760
know, for the Denver show. 
He was really conditioned for 

368
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,680
the Utah show. 
He came in about 10 lbs heavier 

369
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:55,320
and it was it was a softer look 
but it was essentially what we 

370
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,200
were going for like a have your 
look. 

371
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,360
But you know the Utah show was 
competitive and you know he 

372
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,120
just, I think that, you know 
maybe he should have got into 

373
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:13,040
that, you know top five, but you
know didn't fall that way. 

374
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,440
But he he had not but too many. 
Shows prior to that, right? 

375
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,960
That was one of his first shows.
No, he did a show. 

376
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,200
He he did a classic show like 
the year before and then he did 

377
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,800
one like 2 weeks before that 
show. 

378
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,080
So this was his like third or 
fourth show. 

379
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,320
He he's done a few. 
He actually trains out of arm 

380
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,520
brush which is like a big 
bodybuilding gym. 

381
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,120
Yeah. 
And yeah. 

382
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,960
And and he attends like the 
posing classes out there. 

383
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,440
I mean I, you know he's he's 
taught me some things posing 

384
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,280
that's Phil. 
He's what's that in that, Phil? 

385
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,520
Heath's gym. 
Oh yeah. 

386
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,000
Well, not anymore. 
He moved to Florida now. 

387
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,080
No, I didn't know. 
Yeah, everybody did. 

388
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,480
Brett Wilkin, the other IFBB pro
that trained out of there. 

389
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,440
But yeah, he but you know he's 
been doing it for a while and he

390
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,000
just needs some help. 
So you know, I I came along with

391
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,920
him and was it is you know it 
was fun to be there and be 

392
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,680
backstage and you know not have 
to worry about all the things 

393
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,760
that you have to worry about as 
a competitor, you know. 

394
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,640
Yeah, because you know, majority
of us when we're at shows, we're

395
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,800
probably, you know, competing 
and super stressful being 

396
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,760
backstage and everything. 
But just being able to be 

397
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,320
backstage and kind of, you know,
just, you know, be on the 

398
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,880
opposite side of thing, not 
being stressed out or anything. 

399
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,600
And you know, and I think he 
enjoyed the experience, You 

400
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,160
know, obviously they, you know, 
not being in the top five. 

401
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,640
He was pretty disappointed about
that. 

402
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,640
But he's super young. 
He has, you know, he's like 21 

403
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,480
baby like you know, just, you 
know, I wish I looked that good 

404
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,640
at 21. 
I I didn't even get started 

405
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,840
until I was like 2425. 
I know, man. 

406
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,440
I keep seeing these younger guys
and it's like, I feel like I'm 

407
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,400
pretty young into sports, too. 
Like I look at a lot of the 

408
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,920
people that are, you know, 
killing it on the high level and

409
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,160
they're in their 40s. 
So I'm like, OK, I've got a 

410
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,520
decade ahead of me still, but I 
see some of these guys that just

411
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:26,680
look phenomenal at like 21/22/23
and I'm. 

412
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,400
Like how old are you again? 
I'm 32. 

413
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:30,360
OK, me too. 
Me too. 

414
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,520
Yeah, so it is kind of crazy, 
man. 

415
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,760
Like, I don't know what they 
got, what these guys are eating,

416
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,760
but they got some good genetics.
Benjamin Schuster. 

417
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,440
Yeah, they're looking great. 
What, what got you into the 

418
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,880
sport in the 1st place, man? 
Like if you started, you know a 

419
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,880
little bit later what what was 
your, what was your canvas for 

420
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,280
getting into the bodybuilding to
begin with. 

421
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:57,560
So so I I'm I'm I've always been
in the weightlifting. 

422
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,520
I, I, I when in high school, I I
wrestled and our team was super 

423
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,520
competitive and wrestling was 
kind of life back in high school

424
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:12,160
and everything and then end up 
moving out to Denver when I was 

425
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:20,120
24 and I was working as a 
nursing assistant and just not 

426
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:24,600
living a healthy lifestyle. 
It's probably like 145 pounds, 

427
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,440
20% body fat, you know, nothing 
impressive. 

428
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,680
But I would come home from work 
every day and I'd just be so 

429
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,920
tired. 
My back started hurting just 

430
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,520
like so exhausted all the time. 
And then I was like, all right, 

431
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,440
you know, I need to go back to 
the gym and just started going 

432
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,000
back to the gym. 
And I've, you know, I've always 

433
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,280
trained for a while, but I don't
know, I've never really known 

434
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,000
anything about diet. 
And the first person to teach me

435
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,760
about macros was a shirtless 
Matt Ogus. 

436
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,600
Yeah, yeah. 
On YouTube talking about it and 

437
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,200
like so at this point I I was 
actually in nursing school and I

438
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,840
had some trouble in that and 
failed out. 

439
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,680
But when I was in nursing school
we had a little tiny bit about 

440
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,120
nutrition where they tried to 
explain macros and this that and

441
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:22,800
everything and to be honest with
you kind of like went over my 

442
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,440
head. 
I was more trying to retain the 

443
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,560
information being told rather 
than the actual purpose of it I 

444
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:35,520
guess. 
And yeah, I went right over my 

445
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,120
head, kinda. 
And then just weird Couple years

446
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:43,240
later, I like, I I never even 
watch YouTube really. 

447
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,840
But somehow stumbled upon Matt 
Ogas and started breaking down 

448
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:52,840
macros to me and everything. 
I'm like, huh, So then I started

449
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,120
going to the grocery store, 
start looking at nutrition 

450
00:25:55,120 --> 00:26:00,600
labels, and then I, you know, I 
was living by myself at this 

451
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,040
first time. 
Like, I was actually living on 

452
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,600
my own and I started, you know, 
buying, buying food and like, 

453
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,240
tracking my macros and 
everything. 

454
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,400
And then and with lifting. 
And then I started seeing, like,

455
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,520
really good results. 
Because my whole life I've been 

456
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,480
just training my ass off and, 
like, not eating only protein I 

457
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,360
got was that good old body 
fortress from Walmart. 

458
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:25,960
Oh man, that stuff will wreck 
you big time. 

459
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,800
I used to. 
I used to drink all that stuff 

460
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,480
all the time too. 
We all did. 

461
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,000
Then we all body. 
Fortress. 

462
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,560
That's all you got to say. 
Hey, if you know, you know, 

463
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,440
because nowadays I think they 
got, they might even got 

464
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,880
different stuff, but they might 
even have that same shit, I 

465
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,520
don't know. 
Well, that strawberry body 

466
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,120
fortress shake was horrendous. 
Like the the strawberry flavor 

467
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,680
was was no bueno. 
The funniest thing is my body 

468
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,560
was so malnourished that like, 
it loved it, like it, it was 

469
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,000
like the only protein. 
Like I was really like, I don't 

470
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,880
know, I was a big chicken tender
guy too. 

471
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,320
So like, I ate a bunch of 
chicken tenders all the time and

472
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:08,320
fucking some protein powder. 
But anyway, so then, you know, I

473
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,600
was in the gym and everybody 
started asking like, oh, do you 

474
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:11,480
compete? 
Do you compete? 

475
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,600
Do you compete? 
Because, you know, Denver, out 

476
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,880
here in Denver, it's there's a 
lot of competitions and like 

477
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,640
bodybuilding. 
I'm from the East Coast, like in

478
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:25,720
Delaware, and I went to the gym 
for probably 10, like 5 to 10 

479
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,560
years out there and never heard 
of anyone ever competing. 

480
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,440
It's just unheard of, like 
people just don't compete in 

481
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,720
body. 
The East Coast is just not 

482
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,600
really like, I've known lots of 
people that are athletes. 

483
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,200
I mean, wrestling was really big
and yeah, I don't know, but like

484
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,200
nobody really bodybuild. 
But it wasn't until I got out, I

485
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,960
was 2425 out here in Denver and 
like Start learning about macros

486
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,000
and everybody's Do you compete, 
do you compete? 

487
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:03,400
And then next thing you know, I 
found myself. 

488
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:11,960
I signed up for an MPC physique 
competition and I was tracking 

489
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,320
my calories pretty good. 
And I would say I wasn't keto, 

490
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,040
but I was definitely. 
My carbs were a lot lower and my

491
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,360
fats and my protein, and it's 
probably one of the best looks I

492
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:28,120
had, honestly. 
But I at this point, like, I 

493
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,360
feel like it was because I was 
like so ignorant to everything. 

494
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:35,320
So like the stress levels were 
so low or I was just having fun 

495
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,080
getting in shape, kinda. 
And and I don't know, to be 

496
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,320
honest with you, I never even 
looked up like a YouTube video 

497
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,680
or anything about how these 
competitions went. 

498
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,440
Never been to 1:00 and yeah, I 
don't know, Next thing you know,

499
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,920
I was like there, just winging. 
Out. 

500
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:01,520
Yeah man. 
And I I got my spray tan, but 

501
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,280
nobody ever told me to go back 
to get glossed up. 

502
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,360
So when I went out the 
prejudging, I definitely had 

503
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,000
like an off tan color because I 
didn't have the gloss, but I was

504
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,440
super shredded. 
But in my posing was just 

505
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,880
horrible and my stage presence 
was even worse And I I looked 

506
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,880
really good and if I knew what I
was doing I probably would have 

507
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,240
easily won my division and 
competed for the overall. 

508
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:31,680
But I mean my I I remember my 
individual routine, you know, 

509
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,080
like from men's physique it's 
like 8 to 10 seconds front back 

510
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,160
walk off the stage. 
I remember I went got into my 

511
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,480
front pose and like I think I 
stood there for maybe 2025 

512
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:48,560
seconds started hearing from now
turn around, turn around, turned

513
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,520
around and just like ran all 
like it just went so bad every 

514
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,040
like way possible. 
But I was like super shredded. 

515
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,520
So they gave me 5th place 
because they felt bad for me. 

516
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,600
And then and then doing another 
competition like 6-7 months 

517
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,560
later and this time I went to 
some posing classes with team 

518
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,760
elite physique. 
He's a He's big in the bikini 

519
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,560
world. 
Yeah, I'm unfamiliar. 

520
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,520
Yeah, and and he and Adam helped
me a lot. 

521
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,560
And then my next show I went and
I got second. 

522
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,520
I lost to the guy who got the 
overall. 

523
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:37,280
He was juiced up, juiced out 
huge, deformed, dealt super 

524
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,120
small waist. 
I don't know if at the time I 

525
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,120
thought I should have won, but 
you know, just me being. 

526
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,160
But you know, the NBC is way 
different. 

527
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,880
They definitely go for size and 
everything like that. 

528
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:59,560
So then another one a couple 
weeks, a couple months later and

529
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,280
each show I was a little bit 
less conditioned than the one 

530
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,000
before because I was just 
thinking I need more size kinda.

531
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,960
And then my last show I came and
I wouldn't say I my well, I did.

532
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,160
This time I did my own tan. 
I did the pro tan stuff or 

533
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,520
whatever, which gave me like 
kind of like a different look. 

534
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,760
I don't know, could have been 
better, but my condition wasn't 

535
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,760
as good. 
I feel like I should have got 

536
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:34,200
top five, maybe 4th or 5th, but 
I didn't get that. 

537
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,880
And that's when I realized that 
I needed to take some time off 

538
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:44,520
to improve. 
And like during that time I just

539
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:50,200
realized that I just didn't 
really care for men's physique 

540
00:31:51,680 --> 00:32:00,520
and like slowly started to, 
like, despise it and realized 

541
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,720
that, like, if I was going to 
step on stage again, it was 

542
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,800
going to be, you know, classic 
or bodybuilding. 

543
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,160
But you know, to bring, I knew 
my legs still needed a lot of 

544
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:19,720
improvement and you know, just 
with the posing and stuff like 

545
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,360
that and I don't know, I got 
kind of discouraged. 

546
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:35,080
But then in 2022, 20/20/22, I 
was in the gym lifting talk 

547
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,200
about little kids coming up to 
us. 

548
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,920
This kid came up to me. 
He was like, do you compete? 

549
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,520
And I told him, you know, like, 
I had before in men's physique 

550
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,000
and he was like, oh, can you 
help me prep for a show? 

551
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:56,960
And this kid was huge. 
He was like 5-10, like 19 years 

552
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,360
old, 510, probably about like 
215 lbs. 

553
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,040
And you know, I had some good 
size when I'm already and I'm 

554
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,160
like, like, how old are you? 
He's like 19. 

555
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,320
He's like just started lifting 
during COVID, like you're like 

556
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,120
almost the size of me. 
And so I was like, yeah, you 

557
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,080
know, I'll help you. 
And 2022, I started Youtubing. 

558
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,520
Everything about like posing and
and everything just to try to 

559
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:34,360
help him learn is because his 
posing was terrible and and he 

560
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:44,600
went from 2:15 to 180 and 10 1/2
weeks and he looked incredible 

561
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,000
and his pose and you know, while
you know, teaching him posing, I

562
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,320
learned so much myself and that 
kind of like sparked the fire 

563
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:01,960
back at me a little bit. 
But he actually competed in the 

564
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,640
OCB show and I think he got 
cheated pretty bad. 

565
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,280
But you know, like I said, it's 
pretty subjective. 

566
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,440
It is tough. 
The Classic category. 

567
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,920
Yeah, having, having a 
subjective sport, having judges,

568
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,800
everybody looking for something 
a little bit different, It is, 

569
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,199
it is challenge. 
That's why you got to just go in

570
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,760
and you know, put your 
everything out there and be the 

571
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,159
best that you can be. 
And if you're bringing the best 

572
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:29,760
look that you've ever brought 
before, then you can feel good 

573
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,800
about that regardless of what 
the judges say, because they 

574
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,320
can't take that from you. 
Yeah. 

575
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:42,080
But yeah, I don't know. 
I think, yeah, I think that that

576
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,239
that it was, it was real good 
that, you know that that sparked

577
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,480
that fire again to me. 
But the OCB is just, I think if 

578
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,000
I'm going to compete again, it's
going to be in the I MB S. 

579
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:57,320
Yeah. 
But I'm just, I'm waiting for 

580
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,960
him to bring a show back to 
Colorado. 

581
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,640
So if anyone's listening, they 
should definitely bring a show 

582
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,640
back to Colorado. 
Hey, maybe that's your next 

583
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:05,440
column. 
Maybe you should be the 

584
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,640
promoter. 
Well, I know we got Alberto 

585
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,360
Nunez out here. 
He's in Fort Collins. 

586
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,840
We got freaking the world champ 
out here. 

587
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,760
Brian Dacosta in Arvada. 
I don't know. 

588
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,480
There's no reason why there 
shouldn't be a The only thing is

589
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,040
natural bodybuilding isn't 
terribly big out here. 

590
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,440
Like the Utah show. 
You know you tried to do 

591
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,000
bodybuilding and then you would 
have been the only person at our

592
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,520
show. 
There was only one other guy 

593
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,920
doing bodybuilding. 
Yeah, I feel like it's 

594
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,880
definitely gaining some 
momentum. 

595
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,000
I feel like there's a lot more 
being put out of around natural 

596
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,520
bodybuilding, you know, now than
there was five years ago. 

597
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,240
But it's still so much. 
I mean pales in comparison to 

598
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:54,880
what the, you know, traditional 
non tested federations are 

599
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,440
doing. 
I mean there's just nothing as 

600
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,680
big as like the Arnold or the 
Olympia or anything like that 

601
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,320
within the sport of natural 
bodybuilding. 

602
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,040
And if you look at like the the 
the prize money for you know, 

603
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,240
the Olympia or Arnold, compare 
that with the top prize purse 

604
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:11,520
for a natural show, it's like, 
you know, pennies to the dollar.

605
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,000
It's like it doesn't even make 
sense. 

606
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,640
Have you ever thought about 
about getting your OCB 

607
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,240
bodybuilding pro car 'cause they
are the ones that pay. 

608
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,280
Well, see, I don't do, I mean, I
don't ever do it for the money 

609
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,320
anyways. 
Like, I don't make any. 

610
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,880
I mean I would not be able to 
rely on natural bodybuilding, 

611
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,600
prize money for my livelihood. 
And so I just do it for all the 

612
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,200
other reasons I love this sport.
But it would be cool if it was 

613
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,560
more prominent and there was 
more money in it because I think

614
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,080
that would drive more awareness 
to it and you get more 

615
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,000
competitors, you'd have more 
competitive competitors likely. 

616
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,280
But I don't think anybody does 
natural bodybuilding for the 

617
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,560
money. 
I mean, there's just, there's 

618
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,160
just not any money in it, but 
there's a lot of other benefits 

619
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,680
from it. 
Oh, absolutely. 

620
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,240
Yeah. 
No, the money is is, you know, 

621
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,120
an afterthought for sure. 
But you know, if you are going 

622
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,960
to compete in an organization, 
and if you ask me, I think the 

623
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,400
OCB bodybuilding is far less 
competitive than the WNBF. 

624
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,000
Yeah, the WNBF is no joke, man. 
Like when I competed at Worlds 

625
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,920
in November. 
By by far it's like heads and 

626
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,480
like it's not even close to 
like. 

627
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,760
I mean all right we're we're not
going to try to bad talk anyone.

628
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:35,760
But there's someone who plays at
the bodybuilding at the OC Bay 

629
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,840
and I don't think he was stand 
chance in the WNBF. 

630
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,600
Yeah, the WNBF definitely draws 
a very competitive, you know, 

631
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,080
class for sure. 
I mean like every show that I 

632
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,560
did within the WNBF was just 
like everybody brought their a 

633
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,200
game. 
Like everybody was looking 

634
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,440
condition. 
Rewarded. 

635
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:59,520
Yeah, And bodybuilding is pretty
big about conditioning. 

636
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,920
You know, In order to know how 
much muscle you really have, you

637
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,880
got to be skin to the bone. 
Yep, Yep. 

638
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,120
That's the name of the game, 
man. 

639
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,880
And that's why I like, I'm 
trying to take so much time off 

640
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,560
now before I compete again. 
Like so many people compete too 

641
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,040
frequently, especially within 
natural bodybuilding. 

642
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,280
So they're like when you're 
natural, like you're not going 

643
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,880
to be able to recover as quickly
as if you're on gear. 

644
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,880
You're not going to be able to 
put on as much size, obviously, 

645
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:29,040
as if if you were on gear. 
And as you become a mature, you 

646
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,160
know, bodybuilder, like it takes
time to put additional lean 

647
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,440
tissue on your frame. 
So if you're competing every 

648
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,880
several months or every year 
even, you just can't really have

649
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,160
that marking difference every 
time you step on stage. 

650
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,840
Like I I competed in five shows 
in 2023, and I'm probably going 

651
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,280
to take five years off before I 
compete again. 

652
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,840
But when I compete again, I'm 
going to be bigger, I'm going to

653
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,760
be better, I'm going to be 
leaner, I'm going to be, you 

654
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,720
know, a better package than I 
brought previously. 

655
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:59,560
And that's always my goal. 
Yeah I I think Jeff Alberts is a

656
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,520
good example of yeah, how it 
just, you know, it loves 

657
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,960
everybody always thinks the 
downfall comes way sooner that 

658
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,000
like then then it really does. 
You know if I had a dollar like 

659
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,560
every person that thinks 
everybody that thinks that after

660
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,080
30 you need TRRT. 
It's just like mind blowing. 

661
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,360
You know it's you, you don't 
start to think if you're if 

662
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,280
you're eating right and you're 
working out and you're staying 

663
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,080
active, you're not going to 
start declining until you know 

664
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,960
56. 
You know it's and it's all 

665
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,720
subjective. 
At the end of the day, what you 

666
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:42,600
do would call it declining. 
But to see Jeff Alberts get 

667
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,400
bigger in his late 40s than he 
was, you know, in his 30s is 

668
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:56,040
just incredible. 
And you know, it's people, you 

669
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,480
know, competing just gets 
addictive, I think. 

670
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:04,040
And you know, unless you've been
in the game in a while, you 

671
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,400
know, you think that you're 
going to make a lot of changes 

672
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,440
within a few months or a year. 
But at the end of the day. 

673
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,400
It takes a lot of time to build 
lean tissue, muscle, and 

674
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,840
depending on how shredded you 
really get, you know it. 

675
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,720
There's a lot of people like to 
go by body weight, but you know,

676
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:30,120
if you really weren't shredded 
to the bone, you could come back

677
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,800
5 lbs less than you were two 
years ago and still have more 

678
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,080
muscle. 
Totally man. 

679
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,840
Like this last round of 
competitions. 

680
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,160
I competed at one 53154 at my 
lightest, My very first 

681
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:47,080
competition in 2012 I was 153. 
And it's crazy because I was 

682
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,600
pretty freaking lean then too. 
But I mean, if you compare 

683
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,440
pictures side by side, like I've
got exponentially more muscle on

684
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,320
my frame now than I did back in 
2012, so you can't really just 

685
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,720
use the scale as your only proxy
there. 

686
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:04,480
But The thing is most people, 
you know, they they don't get 

687
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,960
that conditioned, so they don't 
really know what's underneath 

688
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,840
that. 
Adipose issue what's the bottom 

689
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,440
point kind of you know exactly 
like what's what's what's the 

690
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:23,960
low low of like you know but 
yeah I I before I this last year

691
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,080
when I competed and I think that
you know I I I didn't get to the

692
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,760
bottom. 
You know low low where you need 

693
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,160
to be where you know your legs 
are my upper body was good but 

694
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,160
my and you know bodybuilding is 
just such a funny sport because 

695
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,680
you know one person can hold all
the all their body fat in their 

696
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,160
upper body while the other 
person holds it in the lower and

697
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,160
name of the game is getting it 
all out. 

698
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,760
But you know you just can't pick
where it comes from. 

699
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,240
You can't pick where you put it 
on, so you can't pick where it 

700
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,240
comes out right? 
That's very true, ma'am. 

701
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,760
Very true. 
So if you were learning all your

702
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,920
macros from Matt Ogas back then,
I mean, he's big on the flexible

703
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,400
diet and you have to fit your 
macros approach. 

704
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:04,520
Is that kind of what you were 
doing? 

705
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,440
Yeah. 
At first I think it was just 

706
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,520
more like, for me, it's just 
always been about eating. 

707
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,440
I've never really ate a lot. 
I'm not a big eater. 

708
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,160
So for me, it's just all about, 
you know, prepping the meals and

709
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,480
having, you know, having them 
there to grab and heat it up. 

710
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,120
And I kind of, you know, would 
start like with just every 

711
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:31,440
single day having breakfast 
prepped. 

712
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,000
And then as soon as I got that 
down, you know, then I would 

713
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,760
move on to the next, like having
two meals prepped a day and 

714
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,880
finally I'm up to about 3 days 
and three prep meals a day now. 

715
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:51,120
But yeah, they even today. 
I mean, I I feel like if I 

716
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,680
didn't make an effort to eat, I 
could easily go all day without 

717
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,800
eating. 
Yeah, it's funny, man. 

718
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,560
I can. 
I've got an appetite on me right

719
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,680
now, for sure. 
Like, I've been like I've I I 

720
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,840
had almost 6000 calories 
yesterday and I could easily put

721
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,840
down more than that. 
Like my body's metabolism is 

722
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,080
freaking through the roof right 
now, so I'm ravenous. 

723
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,720
But I didn't always. 
I wasn't always at that. 

724
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:14,520
Like I had to really work to get
the food in. 

725
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,240
But that's the thing too. 
Like a lot of people, they 

726
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,520
they're on both ends of the 
spectrum. 

727
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,960
And like, you got people that 
don't eat near enough to grow, 

728
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,080
and you got people that 
obviously way too much of the 

729
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,640
wrong things, so they're not 
going to grow in the right way 

730
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:28,000
either. 
I mean, just getting the right 

731
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:34,200
nutrition in is key. 
Yeah no yeah it's make it. 

732
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,480
You know, you can under eat as 
long as you're getting the right

733
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,360
nutrition and sometimes you 
know, it's still, you know, 

734
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,400
progress in the gym and build 
muscle. 

735
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,520
But yeah, I even has always been
the problem for me. 

736
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:56,080
The more meals I've ate, the the
more progress I've seen. 

737
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,920
But for me, it's just so easy to
go a couple of days with, just 

738
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,680
not if I if I don't have them 
prepped and my weight just goes 

739
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,440
right back down. 
So what? 

740
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:09,000
What? 
Does your. 

741
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,480
What does your? 
Nutrition look like now. 

742
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:15,320
Like are you doing pretty high 
protein, pretty high fat, pretty

743
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,800
high carbs? 
Like how do you have it broken 

744
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,560
down currently? 
So I'm definitely going with 

745
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:25,360
more carbs than usual. 
There's, you know, I wake up in 

746
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,360
the morning, I usually have like
3 eggs, four things, the Turkey,

747
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:37,280
bacon and an apple. 
And then for lunch I have 8 oz 

748
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,800
93.7 beef rice and mixed veggies
with that. 

749
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,760
Right now I'm going with more. 
I just kind of take over my rice

750
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,880
up and down. 
If I'm dieting kind of heavy 

751
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,080
then I'll have less rice. 
If I'm you know trying to gain 

752
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:59,800
weight then more rice And I I 
eat that twice a day and then I 

753
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,400
usually get like a a shake from 
the gym after like post workout 

754
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,680
like a five 600 calories shake. 
So I'm I'm getting in about you 

755
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:13,080
know 2500 to 3500 depending on 
and then I always eat some 

756
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,720
bullshit sweets and stuff like 
that you know I always have ice 

757
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:20,880
cream at night time. 
It's craving. 

758
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,720
I can't can't tap. 
See, we got to get you on the 

759
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:29,120
key train, man. 
Yeah, I, you know, I, you know, 

760
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,320
I I definitely could have some 
more more lean meats. 

761
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,200
Not lean meat, but fatty meats 
and everything in my diet. 

762
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,640
I I don't know if I can give up 
my soft pretzels quite yet. 

763
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,360
The soft pretzels Got you 
hooked, huh? 

764
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,400
Yeah, man, it's I I love me some
bread. 

765
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,120
Yeah, a lot of people have 
trouble with that for sure. 

766
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,680
But I don't know, man, I didn't 
have any trouble cutting the 

767
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,720
bread. 
Do you have any, like GI issues 

768
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:00,280
or anything? 
Like if you had a bunch of rice,

769
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,520
is that like messy or gut at 
all? 

770
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,720
You know, every now and then 
like I I have issues, but I 

771
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:11,880
think I also work at the 
hospital, Yeah. 

772
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,480
And I think a lot of it has to 
do with sometimes stuff I might 

773
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,640
at the hospital like. 
I mean I have patients who have 

774
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:27,680
like C diff and stuff like that 
and just because I'm I'm like 

775
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,160
going in and gowning up and 
doing it right doesn't mean that

776
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,120
you know everybody is and it 
gets spread throughout the 

777
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,600
hospital and stuff like that. 
And so I don't know my my guts 

778
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,000
definitely different. 
I've had to kind of switch my 

779
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,320
diet around sometimes. 
Like for instance when I used to

780
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:51,600
wake up I would have a banana 
every morning and that would 

781
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,920
really upset my stomach. 
But now I have an apple and it 

782
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,880
doesn't upset my stomach. 
Interesting. 

783
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:04,800
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean what what do you do at 

784
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,920
the hospital? 
What's that? 

785
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:08,840
What's your line of work at the 
hospital? 

786
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,360
I'm a nursing assistant. 
What kind of so are you kind of 

787
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,320
seeing all all different types 
of patients or is it like a 

788
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,360
specific demographic that's 
coming in? 

789
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,280
I'm at the VA hospital so I get 
we get all vets, but I'm on the 

790
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,440
Med search floor. 
So it's basically if someone 

791
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,840
gets admitted from the emergency
department, they go up to our 

792
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,120
floor. 
If someone like goes to surgery 

793
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,360
and they need to go stay at the 
hospital like get monitored, 

794
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,360
then they go to our floor. 
It's kind of like the first stop

795
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,280
for a lot of people if they do 
get admitted. 

796
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,000
Is it mostly like like what? 
What are most people suffering 

797
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,640
from? 
Like if there was a a general 

798
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,480
population, what are most people
suffering from? 

799
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,320
I would say probably just some 
type of heart issue. 

800
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,760
Yeah, it's it's a lot, a lot of 
variety, but. 

801
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,000
Most. 
Overwhelming, yeah. 

802
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,800
I mean, there's a, there's a 
it's, it's starting. 

803
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,120
It's been, it's been pretty 
rough the past couple years, 

804
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,800
ever since 2020. 
It's gotten really crazy. 

805
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:27,000
Yeah, a lot, a lot of people, a 
lot more people who are just 

806
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,320
unable to take care of 
themselves. 

807
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:33,400
Like, All in all, a lot more 
placement, placement. 

808
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:39,200
People who are there who aren't 
really, like they can't go to 

809
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:44,040
the psych psychiatric ward 
because of like dementia or 

810
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,080
something like that. 
Like so like their mind isn't 

811
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,440
there and like they act out and 
do crazy things. 

812
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,840
But like, you know, it's not 
like they're able to go to the 

813
00:48:54,840 --> 00:49:00,000
psychiatric ward because they're
not like, I don't know, like 

814
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,120
there's like certain standards 
because like if you're if you 

815
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,160
know what you're doing and 
everything like that, then you 

816
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:08,280
know they can send you 
psychiatric. 

817
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,840
But like, if it's from dementia,
they're not going to send you 

818
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:11,800
there. 
Yeah. 

819
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,040
Then there's going to have like 
a bunch of people walking 

820
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,440
around, walking around. 
Not like, yeah, I don't know. 

821
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:22,400
But we have a lot of, like 
dementia patients and stuff like

822
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,680
that who are like placement 
issues and like family members 

823
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:30,080
can't take care of them. 
We just find a lot of lot of 

824
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,840
older men who can't take care of
themselves and like, the wives 

825
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,200
don't know what to do. 
That's extremely common now. 

826
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,120
So definitely most of the older 
demographic. 

827
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,920
It's gotten a lot younger. 
Really. 

828
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:53,640
So like when I first got into it
like say eight years ago, 8-9 

829
00:49:53,640 --> 00:50:00,680
years ago, the IT was just a 
bunch of old grandpas, like 8590

830
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:06,760
year olds. 
Now it's a lot more privileged 

831
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:16,200
6065 year olds, early 70s. 
It's definitely gotten younger 

832
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,880
and younger than what it what it
has been. 

833
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,680
You feel like people are getting
healthier and healthier overall,

834
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,800
or unhealthier and unhealthy. 
Oh, absolutely not. 

835
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,080
You know, it's people, you know,
yeah, they're people are not 

836
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,760
getting healthier and healthier.
It's it's, you know, it's not 

837
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,120
looking good out there. 
Just my perspective, you know, 

838
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:42,400
it's people are getting younger,
like the like the adventures, a 

839
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:47,440
lot younger and just not as 
respectful. 

840
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,640
They're probably eating too many
soft pretzels and ice cream. 

841
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,360
Joe Biden's America. 
Everybody's allowed to have ice 

842
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:02,920
cream before bedtime. 
Yeah, they do make some pretty 

843
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,800
good keto ice cream, though. 
I'm just going to throw that out

844
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,920
there. 
Yeah, I've tried a few different

845
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:15,520
keto options. 
So I'm not I I like meat. 

846
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,440
So I mean, I've always I've 
actually bought some keto 

847
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,800
bricks. 
Oh yeah, nice man. 

848
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,320
I didn't know. 
That I did. 

849
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:26,160
I did buy some keto bricks. 
I I I don't know. 

850
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,720
Like, are you? 
You ain't supposed to eat them 

851
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:29,480
by themselves, are you? 
I do. 

852
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,000
I ate 1:00 every single day. 
OK. 

853
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,120
It's kind of cool, 'cause at 
that show that we were at, there

854
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,960
was another competitor there 
that was eating a brick, and he 

855
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,920
was doing Keto. 
Like he did that whole show, 

856
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,920
show prep with Keto. 
So he had a brick backstage. 

857
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,600
I had a brick backstage. 
He did, He did. 

858
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,960
I really love the camaraderie of
all the competitors at that 

859
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,600
show. 
And there's like a good vibe all

860
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:51,560
around. 
Like everybody was super 

861
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:52,640
friendly. 
It was a smaller show, but 

862
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,120
everybody was super friendly. 
Everybody was helping each other

863
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:56,880
pump up. 
Like it was just a good vibe 

864
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,520
through and through. 
Yeah, yeah. 

865
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,640
No, I feel like, you know, 
backstage is usually a really 

866
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,840
high stress time. 
So yeah, you know, I can always 

867
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,840
can either of you. 
No one's talking to anyone or 

868
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,960
or, you know, good camaraderie 
backstage. 

869
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,160
Yeah, 100% man, 100%. 
So what, what's in the pipeline 

870
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:23,200
for you? 
Are you going to be doing 

871
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,400
another show anytime soon or you
can just focus on putting on 

872
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,680
some more size? 
I guess your your reverse that's

873
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:29,960
pretty much done at this point, 
right? 

874
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:37,160
Yeah, well, I I'm, I'm, I'm 
going to keep pushing it. 

875
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,760
I think I goal is to get up to 
185. 

876
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,320
Right now is the heaviest I've 
ever been. 

877
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,080
What's your weight? 
Now waking up at 179 in the 

878
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,840
morning, about my moving average
is 179 in the morning. 

879
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:59,520
Nice. 
But yeah, I've, yeah, I've never

880
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,680
been up this heavy. 
But for me, in order for me to 

881
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,880
to, you know, push more weight 
in the gym, I need to have more 

882
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,360
weight on my body. 
It's just for me, it's, I feel 

883
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,960
like it's the only way I'm ever 
going to see like be able to 

884
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,000
move heavier weight is, you 
know, I just have to kind of, 

885
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,120
you know, go on that seafood 
diet. 

886
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:29,640
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm trying like 
I'm 175 roughly right now and I 

887
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,960
think I started the prep at 182.
I'm probably going to hang out 

888
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,080
around this 175 mark for a 
while, but all my my strength 

889
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,760
markers are are definitely 
improving, man. 

890
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,040
Like I've just been killing it 
in the gym here lately that I'm 

891
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,840
eating so much more food and I 
feel really good. 

892
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,120
So I'm just kind of hold tight 
here, focus on building as much 

893
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:48,920
mass as possible over the next 
several years. 

894
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:53,480
But I definitely took it to a 
point where I got too heavy. 

895
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:56,080
My first, you know, building 
phase. 

896
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,680
I got up to 2:30 and that was 
just way too big for me. 

897
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,880
Yeah, there's definitely a a 
point of no returns for sure. 

898
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:10,280
I would say I probably feel best
around 17175. 

899
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,640
If I wasn't, you know, like 
making an effort to push food 

900
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,840
and everything like that, then 
that probably would be my my 

901
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,720
weight where I would, you know 
be over in the best. 

902
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:25,920
But yeah, no, I've, you know, 
there's there's a lot of 

903
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:33,120
exercises I've never 
incorporated into my well. 

904
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:37,040
So I I I've always referralled 
everything. 

905
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,000
I never really tracked much or 
anything. 

906
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:45,520
Never tracked my workouts or 
anything up until last October. 

907
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,080
I ended up getting the coach. 
Yeah. 

908
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:54,440
So I hired Malcolm Cooper. 
He's a string school coaching 

909
00:54:54,440 --> 00:55:02,600
out of Texas. 
But yeah, so he's, he's, he's 

910
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,160
had me start doing some, you 
know, more movements to work on 

911
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:12,760
my ass to get my glutes up my 
hamstrings in those areas. 

912
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,640
I never really trained 
consistently for a long time. 

913
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:24,600
So been, you know, really 
working on the RDLS. 

914
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:34,480
I'm actually going to copy some 
of them single leg squats you 

915
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:35,680
were doing the other day. 
Oh yeah. 

916
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,240
Those Bulgarian. 
Split squats, I saw you. 

917
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:40,520
You're holding on to something 
to to keep your balance. 

918
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,280
And I'm like, you know what? 
That's what I need to do. 

919
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,360
I need to hold on to something 
because I'm over here trying to 

920
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:52,760
do these split squats and I'm 
struggling more to keep my day 

921
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,640
in balance than I it is to 
actually do the exercise. 

922
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,200
Yeah, no, I like those, man. 
You get a crazy pump and good 

923
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,160
burn from those. 
So I like doing those. 

924
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,480
I've been hitting legs crazy 
hard because I've always had 

925
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,960
scrawny legs, but I feel like my
legs have finally caught up with

926
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:11,280
my upper body. 
Yeah, yeah, dude. 

927
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,960
I definitely don't have scrawny 
legs anymore. 

928
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,360
Then I get my chest. 
Built up, that's my weak point. 

929
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,960
Now is my chest. 
And speaking like physique 

930
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,360
competitors like Chris Elkins, 
man, he's, he's a physique 

931
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,560
competitor, but he's got a 
freaking massive chest. 

932
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,800
Like his chest is his best body.
Part and. 

933
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:35,800
Mine is certainly not. 
Well hey, look at me brother. 

934
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,680
It's my worst body part. 
By far too I would say is my 

935
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,520
chest, especially when I dyed it
down. 

936
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:50,560
I just my so this past time when
I dyed it down, I so the last 

937
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,280
about six weeks I would say of 
my prep. 

938
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:59,200
I essentially just like stopped 
lifting, like lifting like 

939
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,080
heavy. 
And I don't know. 

940
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,880
I would, I would go to the gym 
and I as soon as I get a pump, I

941
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,720
would go and practice posing 
because I was so worried about 

942
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:14,440
my posing that I was, I was 
doing such a poor job of pushing

943
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:19,720
myself in the gym and keeping 
the intensity high that I feel 

944
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,280
like I was a lot like my 
physique was just a lot more 

945
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:23,800
deflated than it could have 
been. 

946
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,920
Just lost a lot of fullness. 
And yeah, and then I my cardio 

947
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:37,920
was super high and I I just 
think that, you know, it 

948
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:43,640
resulted in just a more sucked 
out version of what what I could

949
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:44,880
have been. 
Yeah, I try. 

950
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,200
And keep the cardio as minimal 
as possible. 

951
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,680
And I try and lift as heavy as I
can throughout the entirety of 

952
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:50,880
the prep. 
I felt That's always worked 

953
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,360
really well for me 'cause that, 
that first. 

954
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,480
Show I was doing, especially to 
bring them definitions and the 

955
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,360
details and the legs. 
Yeah, yeah, you gotta keep 

956
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,680
lifting heavy if you can for 
sure, 'cause as soon as you stop

957
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,600
lifting heavy, you're gonna 
start losing muscle. 

958
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,720
I mean, lifting heavy and 
demanding that tissue be there 

959
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,160
is one of the single best things
you can do to preserve that 

960
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,360
tissue in the context of a 
deficit. 

961
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,240
Yeah, Yeah. 
So I was heavy in the deficit 

962
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,680
and I was kind of just 
challenging myself to lose 

963
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,680
muscle as long as I've lost the 
fat as well. 

964
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:27,280
And, you know, was it a good 
look? 

965
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:31,920
Yeah, it's good. 
You know, But like, how far off 

966
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:37,400
was it from my best? 
I feel like it was 50% maybe. 

967
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,280
I mean, I in like that's not 
even like, it's just being 

968
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,760
honest. 
I could have just done so much 

969
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,840
better job. 
So you know, like you're saying 

970
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,400
how you should always take like 
you know, four years off and 

971
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,160
stuff like that, not not four 
years, but take a lot of time 

972
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,600
off. 
While I agree with that 110%, 

973
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,720
I'm kind of have an itch because
I want to get back and get a 

974
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:06,400
little bit of redemption, yeah. 
But I totally. 

975
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:07,760
Get it, man, I don't know. 
I do. 

976
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:10,440
You have a show picked. 
Down you have something. 

977
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,680
On the on the calendar. 
No. 

978
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,800
And that's kind of the reason 
why I'm like, I I want to do an 

979
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,440
I, I MB F show, so I would have 
to get on a plane and fly 

980
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:27,720
somewhere, which isn't too 
appealing. 

981
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:37,720
And like I hired a coach and 
kind of my biggest thing was 

982
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:42,080
kind of like, I like leading up 
to the show, like I I just want 

983
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:43,440
to have someone to like be able 
to check in. 

984
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,360
And with the being online, I 
don't really know if I can get 

985
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:47,480
that. 
And like I don't know if you 

986
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,040
would even be able to be at my 
show with me backstage. 

987
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:55,840
You know. 
So I'm just kind of and you know

988
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,640
it's that's the that's the 
beautiful thing about natural 

989
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,600
bodybuilding is the older you 
get, as long as you're working, 

990
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,040
the more of an advantage you 
should have. 

991
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,160
You know it's. 
You know, you just, you can keep

992
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,280
getting better, you know, and 
stage is always going to be 

993
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,720
there. 
Yeah, totally agree, man. 

994
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,920
No sense in rushing it. 
I mean, take take the time, make

995
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,840
sure you've got a super solid 
Hormonal Base Metabolic Base. 

996
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,160
You're healthy. 
You can build some more lean 

997
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,200
tissue. 
And yeah, your family too. 

998
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:25,800
And every, you know, everything 
around you. 

999
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,160
You want to be right? 
You know, Yeah, definitely. 

1000
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,400
If you're going to go into a 
prep. 100%, man. 

1001
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,760
Well, I'm excited for you, man. 
I definitely think you should 

1002
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,400
take, you know, as much time as 
you can off in between shows. 

1003
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,200
But we'll have to coordinate, 
because I'd love to step on 

1004
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:45,600
stage with you. 
Oh yeah, man, you're you're WMBF

1005
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:47,400
pro now. 
So that's the only way we're 

1006
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:52,400
going to see if I can if I can 
get there, you can. 

1007
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,240
I'll be. 
I'll be my, my my goals would be

1008
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,440
accomplished. 
Well, they changed it, thank 

1009
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,560
goodness, because like before in
the WNBF you had to compete 

1010
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,600
every two years in order to 
maintain pro status, whereas now

1011
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,200
they just changed it like a 
couple months ago. 

1012
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,560
But like as long as you stay 
current on your membership dues,

1013
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,840
you can keep your pro status, I 
guess indefinitely. 

1014
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,200
So I can afford to take. 
That time, did Kendall Richmond 

1015
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,600
lose his status? 
I don't know. 

1016
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:19,240
I mean, he he just competed at 
the Arnold. 

1017
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,160
He's a freaking beast. 
Yeah. 

1018
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:27,560
So I I'm just wondering if they 
maybe made that rule because of 

1019
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,200
him. 
Yeah, I don't know, like. 

1020
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,200
I think that's. 
Been working for a while I. 

1021
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,360
Think people have been wanting 
that for quite some time because

1022
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:37,960
it, I mean if if you're trying 
to take more time off in between

1023
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,400
shows as a natural athlete, it 
doesn't make sense that they 

1024
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,120
mandate you compete every two 
years to to stay current as a 

1025
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,120
pro. 
So I'm glad they made that 

1026
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,240
shift, for sure. 
Yeah, definitely. 

1027
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:55,800
I mean well there's another it's
not it's not Bada, it's it's 

1028
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,560
another guy he's in the eye of 
BB, he competes in the eye of BB

1029
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,000
in the 212. 
Now who's was a natural world 

1030
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:07,800
champ can't think of his name 
but it seems like, you know if 

1031
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,960
you win the world's and if you 
want to go into like you know 

1032
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,640
stay natty and test your chances
in the eye of BB, but you know 

1033
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,200
you're going to have to take 
some time off. 

1034
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,600
So if you like, say you win the 
World Natural Championship, then

1035
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:26,000
you take two years off, they try
to go at the IFBB that you can't

1036
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,480
even come back to the natural 
now because you've been gone for

1037
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,600
two years. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1038
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,120
That's how. 
I mean, you could. 

1039
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,360
That's because they can. 
Qualify as a pro again. 

1040
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,640
Yeah, yeah, it's but yeah, but 
not even. 

1041
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,760
I mean hopefully. 
They they keep making the right 

1042
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,240
decisions at the higher levels 
there and it just keeps getting 

1043
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:47,840
better and better for the 
athletes. 

1044
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,240
You know that's that's at the 
end of the day that's what you 

1045
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,640
want. 
Like it needs to be healthy 

1046
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,600
thing for the athletes. 
Seems to be a good thing for the

1047
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,080
athletes and that's that's how 
you drive, continue to drive 

1048
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,880
more awareness around the sport 
in and of itself. 

1049
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,480
Yeah, absolutely. 
But hopefully one day we can 

1050
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,960
step on stage together, because 
if I do compete against probably

1051
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,720
going to be in the IBI MB F and 
you know, if you can get that 

1052
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:18,680
elusive WMBF card, that's a huge
accomplishment in itself. 

1053
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,280
It is, it is. 
But you can certainly do it, 

1054
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:22,520
man. 
I got full faith and you gotta, 

1055
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,480
you gotta killer physique as it 
is and you just keep getting 

1056
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,400
that dialed in. 
Then I got no doubt that you can

1057
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,400
compete at that level in the 
WNBF. 

1058
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:35,640
I appreciate that. 
Man 'cause you know, you can 

1059
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:37,800
always be your own worst critic 
sometimes, right? 

1060
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,440
Very true. 
But I mean, shoot, that's that's

1061
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,640
the beauty of the sport, man. 
You just it provides an 

1062
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,040
opportunity to keep getting 
better as time goes on. 

1063
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,360
So long as we're doing that, 
we're winning. 

1064
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,960
Absolutely. 
Well, Ryan, always a pleasure, 

1065
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,160
man. 
I'm glad we connected. 

1066
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,120
It was great meeting you in 
person at that show. 

1067
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,680
In you, Tom, where where do 
people go to find out more about

1068
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:58,560
you? 
And just follow along on the 

1069
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,880
journey, man. 
Instagram, Ryan. 

1070
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:07,400
Why? 
Shit yeah man, not too much that

1071
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:09,800
goes on. 
There's post my toy poodle and 

1072
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:15,560
my other dogs, and usually just 
gym updates and use as my 

1073
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,000
personal camera roll. 
There you go. 

1074
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:24,040
So I can just kind of go back 
and look at pics and you know 

1075
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,320
the natty's struggling. 
Make sure you're making progress

1076
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,480
'cause you never know. 
Keeps you countable, man. 

1077
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:30,280
I love it. 
I love it. 

1078
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:31,480
Well, I'll link out to that. 
Maybe. 

1079
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,200
Easy people to find you and 
definitely keep in touch, man. 

1080
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:35,200
There's everything I can do for 
you. 

1081
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:36,760
Just let me know. 
If you ever want to dabble into 

1082
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,840
Keto, you let me know. 
Hey man, if I have any questions

1083
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:42,120
I definitely know who to come 
to. 

1084
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,400
Awesome brother. 
Well, Ryan, keep killing a man 

1085
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,280
and we'll talk soon, brother. 
All right, man. 

1086
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:48,360
Have a great one. 
You too. 

1087
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,360
Bye, bye. 
Bye, bye.