Well, hello ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage, not
commented, ever get special guest.
Will Harris on the podcast. Will Harris is The Man Behind
White Oak pastures. He's been there for quite some
time, his great grandfather started it.
His grandfather, his father now him and now he's got his kids,
running it as well. And I wanted to kind of just
pick his brain about the origin story of white oak pastures.
What makes it different from other cattle operations we
wanted to dive into a regenerative agriculture.
And what that entails we talked about greenwashing, we talked
about how to Change the way. Honestly, the food system is run
and how to do so by voting with your dollar and purchasing food,
that, you know, is, you know, produced and they Humane proper
manner that actually bodes. Well for the quality of life of
the animal, the nutritional quality of the food and just
makes it positive impact. So I thoroughly thoroughly
enjoyed the conversation. I've got upmost respect for mr.
Harris, I've got no doubt that you will take something from
this. So without further Ado, sit
back, relax. Enjoy conversation with Will
Eros. We are live.
Will Harris. How are you sir?
I'm good. Robert, how are you today?
I'm doing wonderfully. Well, myself.
I must say, I enjoyed your podcast on Joe Rogan's
immensely. I don't typically listen to
other people's podcast before, bring them on my show, but that
was a great conversation. Well I really feel privileged to
be able to be on that show and you lose you when your Pulpit is
Bluffton Georgia with a hood and 12 people the ability of the
opportunity you'd speak to a large number of folks on
something you're passionate about and very welcome.
I'm grateful for that when you're what you're doing at the
White Oak pastures. I mean my audience the keto
space, the carnivore space. Those that eat a ton of beef and
place an emphasis on, you know, Grass-fed grass-finished quality
nutrition. Like you're very well-known in
my Sphere, for sure. Well and I you know I'm I've
been in this space longer than most, you know I started moving
away. I was very industrial Cattlemen
for the first half of my life and I started moving away from
it in the mid-90s. And then moving away from it.
Ever since I guess that didn't necessarily mean, we're better
at it than the others as we've been doing it longer than the
others. Well, I feel like experience
definitely carries quite a bit of weight, so it's got to stand
for something. Well, I'm not sure that I'm not
going to, I'm shifting but just in general, you know, we I feel
like today we worship at the altar of reductionist Science
and we've done that at the expense of experiential wisdom
time. When most of the, the stools
lations the world, cultures of the world value, the
experiential wisdom of their elders. and today, if you are a
28 year old PhD researcher, That trumps just about anything.
Anybody else has got to see we siloed this knowledge, you know
the old adage wolves. We know you know in today's
education and we know more and more about less and lest you
know that almost all there is to know about just about nothing.
And that's fine, that's fine. But it, it does not allow for
holistic management where there needs to be some understanding
of all of the components of the whole and not just one myopic
segment of the home. I completely agree.
I feel like the, if you throw caution to the wind and you
don't really Place much emphasis on where those before you have
come from and what led to their demise or success, you're only
You know, doing yourself a disservice because you can
likely bypass many of the hurdles that they encountered.
So on that note I'd love to kind of learn about the origin story
so why do pastures is fourth, I guess fifth generation.
Now you be unfortunate eration, you know, owner of it all, I'd
love to kind of hear about what came before you like.
Where was the the origin of story with it before your time
like my family. We have a family farm down in
Southwest Arkansas. We To run cattle on it now.
It's predominantly a pine Plantation.
We got pine trees growing there but it's been in our family for
four generations. Now as well and that piece of
dirt is is like my lifeblood like that's where we have.
That's where I got married. That's where my dad and mother
are going to be buried. That's just like the heartbeat
of our family. I think that's kept our family
close. So one of my many of my greatest
memories are here in my grandfather.
Tell me about About how his father, you know, started that
whole operation to begin with. So I'd love to kind of hear some
of the origin story of white oak before your time.
Sure, my great-grandfather came in here in 1866 and started this
farm, he farmed all his wife and his son, my grandson Mike, his
son, my grandfather, farmed for him all his life in his son, my
father, farmed it all his life, I'm 68 years old, boom, Farm all
my life. I have read all those two of
which live on the farm and are operating the farm.
Today in conjunction with their spouses and those two children
who took the fifth generation have babies that are the sixth
generation. I've got seven grandchildren,
five of which live your own Farms, which that's a blessing
that is a blessing. What, what was the Catalyst for
it becoming a farm? Was it always a cattle farm from
the very beginning, or what was it initially?
No, that's that's what. And in fact, Robert, that's one
of the things that interest me, most of my farm.
I enjoy talking about, most it when my, my great-grandfather
and grandfather operated Farm, you know, we don't know too much
about how that was done, except just anecdotally how people
farmed in the last half of the last 1,500.
First half for 19. But it would have been a
multi-species farm with a lot of different species of animals
sugar and grain to feed the animals and vegetables to feed
themselves. I do know the story that my
great-grandfather and grandfather were particularly
focused on livestock many species of livestock.
In every move on in six days of the week they woke up and
slaughtered something them and employees would kill a cow, a
couple of hogs, a couple of sheep.
A couple of goats, someone's chickens, almost record every
day they would Slaughter or something, and bring it to my
little new drawing white. And to me, whine, to Bluffton
and pedal the meat, they would drop it off at you listed
before, Refrigeration just before internal.
In engines as, for USDA food safety, so it would have been
pretty primitive. But they will encounter the, the
primary meat supply for this town of Bluffton Georgia and
they become side and pick up their money for the people that
got the meat off the wagon and they sweep, they do it again.
And my father was born in 1920, he took over the farm post World
War Two. And that's when that's when the
the real. Revolution occurred the Green
Revolution of. They called it in agriculture
and he really embraced the technologies that came from
WWII. Ammoniated fertilizer.
Pesticide use later, humble implants to sit there, puke
antibiotics for the animals. All those technologies that were
just like magic in terms of boosting production but had
horrible unintended consequences that were unseen consequences
that we took to the generation of big now But he was a very
successful farmer and he made the farm into a monocultural
cattle operation P. Look cattle like I look at how
and that's what he did. I came, I would, I was born in
1954 with University, Georgia. Graduated in 1976 with my
degree, from the College of Agriculture and animal science.
By that time, everything seems to be on animal husbandry and
be. Come on.
Most science. and I helped my father room the farm, very
Industrial Level 20 years or so the the transition of management
was very gradual, but after 20 years of operating Farm Very
industrial, a, it was a mid 90s and I started moving away from
back production model and that that production model that I
feel like misused Ontology and started.
I had no real decision in line is nobody was talking about
sustainable. It was talking about reaching
her to the one I was talking about resilience in and I had no
great plan to change the prom. I just did become increasingly
disenchanted with the excesses of that production systems.
Do not like doing it anymore. Had gone from loving high-tech.
Gag to not, not like it that much.
So I started gradually moving away from it, which mostly
included, just keeping up for things, giving up the lead for a
while. Giving up this view, removing
the safety, all the sides to give lip tillage and 25. 30
years later, we're still moving away from, we're still evolving
into this more missed, a Kinder gentler agriculture that I think
it is. As more resilient.
So when you're, when your great-grandfather and
grandfather started, it, it was probably more well regenerative
agriculture in that sense. The word before that was a
popular term kind of by default, then I would assume with the
multi-species style of ranching, right?
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right the wrong with talking about
industrial agricultural factory farming misuses Technologies to
break the cycles of nature, the cycles of nature like the
microbial cycle normal cycle, the energy cycle water cycle,
only known cycles of nature. We broke it with the
Technologies and My great grandfather grandfather woman
fall before these Technologies were available.
It became available in my dad's generation and he fell in love
with them and used them in to to end.
It was very damaging system and I came along and I was in love
with the um and I probably use not probably ideal.
I use some more than my dad, dude.
So what was the The Catalyst for moving away from I'm the my
where did you recognize that there was damage being done.
You know, I kind of army I think that the canary in the coal mine
for me was Animal Welfare. You know.
I and I had been raised by, my dad was a great cattle moving to
believe and what I learned at University of Georgia was to
believe that if he's a Stockman I kept my livestock well-fed
will Ward in a reasonable temperature range and I didn't
in intentionally in Click pain and suffering on, then that was
I was all good, all the boxes were checked, I did that.
Anyone ever thought my Animal Welfare was not star?
I thought it was great when it was when it was at its worst of
all great. But what I had not realized that
time of my life is they have, it's also incumbent upon the
Stockman to do those things. I said, who are temperature, not
abuse an animal, but also it's it's incumbent that we provide
the animals with an environment in which they can express
instinctive behavior and in the confinement model does not do
that. You know cattle, one room and
graze chickens, won't scratch and pick Hogs and Walla and then
that confinement and bottle. That is so efficient.
Those animals are not allowed to express those behaviors and I
believe today, that that puts that animal in me, life
situation in, which it's under low, level stress 24/7, I think
it's I think now I was better off being Panic by a predator
attacked in the spur of the moment, then, just be deprived
of those opportunities 24. Some, yeah, that makes sense.
I agree with that. I would imagine apart from the
welfare of the animal. It probably has an impact on the
quality of the meat. That tastes the, the hormonal
balance of that animal, which is going to have an impact on the
flavor of the meat. All of them.
Well, I would think so. You know, I I really try to
focus my comments on the ears and which I feel like I'm an
expert, and I'm an expert in three areas owner that is on
Animal Welfare regenerative Land Management.
Rural community building we were I got a lot of experience in
those three areas, things like culinary after abuse and
nutrient density and food safety.
And those kinds of things. I, I have opinions, but I stay
in my lane and let folks like you who have Lanes of your own
comment on those lie. When it comes to regenerative
Land Management, that's something that's certainly
growing in popularity, as of late, which is probably a good
thing because more people are wanting to move that direction.
But with that rise in popularity, I would assume you'd
also see people cutting Corners, people trying to Two things to
gain that title in the right to say those words.
But not necessarily do so with the right foundational base, do
you see a lot of that in the industry now?
Yeah, I'm fact it's about to break the back of the people who
genuinely to doing it the the terms call greenwashing.
And greenwashing Mountain by definite.
Definition is when big multinational corporations talk
about their practices as regenerative described, their
practices as regenerative when really they're not and it
confuses the consumer and it makes the consumer think that
these industrially produced products are the same as what
people like us. Do and then it is it because a
lot of fusion and mostly they are able to understand all those
price-wise. So they're talking about it
instead of doing it. I was honestly this when I talk
about us and we want to be clear, I do not just need white
oak pastures and I mean the the number of Farmers on road.
I don't know the number, but the number of farms across this
country that are doing the right things in terms, their land and
animals and communication, and I'm not We're not trying to sell
our program all over the country.
I want people in Indiana to buy from Greg gun fall.
I will people in California to buy from folks like stupid Creek
and and I was a little bad guy. Richard's grass-fed beef and all
over the country. Are people doing it, right?
There's not a lot, but there are people all over the country to
do in the right. And I want those people to be
supporting. I want to sail boats down here
in the Deep South and I want you men when to sell the new green
room. And I want the Far, West 7th
Wild West and some, what is the definition of doing it right in
the terms of regenerative agriculture.
So, what is right? Look like inconsistent, That's a
good question. I got enough so doing it right.
In terms of the animals is giving the animals.
The opportunity to express instinctive behavior.
In addition to the basic good Animal Welfare sentence is given
the animals. The right to express instinctive
behavior. In the case of regenerative Land
Management means restarting, the cycles of nature instead of
breaking the water cycle. Little cycle of microbial cycle
image cycle. You see, you restart those
cycles of nature to allow. Do allow the land to produce an
abundance. And in the case of rural
communities, it means really enriching the rural community.
Instead of impoverishing the community, the industrial
centralized, industrialized, monetize, agriculture, his room,
to rule, America economically, irrelevant impoverished because
you will need it anymore. And from a community perspective
to meagre enriching rumor. And in return and that that can
only occur when consumers choose to support a program, they
believe in with their purchase dollars.
And you know, be consuming if they want to be part of that
solution is got to find a farm who is farming an amount of that
the pleases them. In terms of lamb inaudible
Community, you got to buy stuff from.
If you don't, you're buying it. If you go to the store and just
buy it from big food, the big food companies, you know, that
are actually You're supporting A system that is an opposition to
good Animal, Welfare. Good land stewardship and rural
community building. And you can, you know, if you
eat if you eat, you are a person who chooses to eat the need, you
goes for one system of ER, Heck. Yeah, they're this is something.
I don't know anything about you have much.
You can provide much more clarity here but there are I'm
assuming that there are ranchers, that are doing it
properly on their plot of land for the cattle, but they don't
have a way to distribute that meat, so they'll oftentimes sell
it to a larger conglomerate and then it goes through the
traditional commercial a system. Is that right?
Well certainly there are good for farmers who are selling
their product to big food. Big AG to be through converted
by big food. That's that certainly happened.
Every day in most cases, those Farmers have to settle.
Have to produce that food. Industrially Because if it's in
monitor food production, it's a race to the bottom in terms of
price and cost. So if you of your farming
correctly, through the land that animals Community, you're
putting cost into your production that you cannot
extract back out of that commodity market.
So you go, bro. So the only way you can survive
and come out in the market is to farm, industrially Got you, got
you so a people that are as when it comes to doing it right doing
so with animals welfare in mind letting them behave as they
would in nature, not using the hormone route, the pesticides
break on the natural cycles, the time to market the time for
that. Had a beef to get up to wait is
quite a bit longer, right? absolutely, if you ask a farmer
to give up the tools that take cost of production, you're
adding that costs back to production, If you sell it for
the commodity price, this buddy Stone, using all the tools, the
farmer will go broke. So, when you started visiting,
I've been exactly that situation.
You know, I, I chose to change the way our farm just cause I
wanted to and when I did my production costs and when I the
only Market I had that time was commodity markets, just took it
back into the commodity Market. And, you know, I was different
being reasonably profitable to do not be a problem.
And so I had a, I had either go back to raising my animals,
industrially, or had to find a different way tomorrow and I
chose not to before the market them, and I was successful with
that because that was the era before greenwashing was a thing.
Now, the greenwashing is a thing, it would be very hard for
me to emulate that again. Did you start going direct to
Consumer pretty soon? After transitioning away from
these industrialized methods and moving more.
Towards the regenerative model, We're not not not directly.
I mean I'm out. I change the way that I change
the way I was raped in my cattle.
Multicultural catalytic, and change.
The way I was doing it slowly. The, I didn't change all the
time, but I didn't know what to do.
I figured it out, but because I was changing giving up these
tools, these Technologies I was Machine Vision.
I was ahead and cost of production company in cost me
one more one, quite as efficient, the one that sold
under the commodity Market, get the money price.
No, I merely a splint. So I started looking for other
ways to Market it in my time. It was very fortunate.
So we were able to start selling some not all I was reason.
I had a lot of cow, I had problems except 6700 mama cows
at that time. Selling some beef in term in
sides. Halves or whole beef sword over
to Consumers. Use an outside processes.
And that showed will promise is like, I'd get more Farm.
I found a few retail customers in it.
Started looking like this might be a, like, do I get a premium
for never might be a viable business but then my processes
ran out of capacity. I was used him outside
processes, exist capacity, and before I got profitable, but ran
out of capacity. But I would, I would call them
every week and say, how many can I bring you this?
Week. And they would say versus six, I
say, I need to bring the coil, you know, I got 12 gold already
and I've got 12 so it cost me just as much bring you game.
Six is it is 12 over 12 is 6. Can I bring 12 and they just
didn't have it fast? They want to try and of hurt me,
they just couldn't give me what they did in time.
So that Force to me the ultimately to a position where I
had Eva build my own processing plant, which I did or go back to
just raising industrial are raising cows with the commodity
Market I would imagine having your own processing plant being
more vertically, integrated like that.
Probably was a headache in the moment, but since he saved you
in a ton of Heartache I would imagine Yeah, yeah.
Well, I would go move my head. My makeover with it, but I
certainly going through with that and Because I just couldn't
I couldn't, I couldn't even raise them of animals.
And in that way, I want to raise them and get them processed.
And marketed, you know, consumers, don't buy Hogs and
cows and sheep. They buy beef and pork and lamb.
So a lot of farmers ranchers make make the personal choice as
I did that. They will harm them. and most of
them wrongly believed that if they learned how to Raise the
animals in the pastures properly, restart the cycles of
nature of Humane, will be done to die.
That's all they got to do. But it's not because again,
people who buy Hagen couchy, they buy beef and pork in the
lounge. So you got to figure out how to
make that conversion. In my case, I built my own
plants and that worked and it's not necessarily what I
recommend. If you can find another way, she
got to find a way. You got my, somebody did you
make that conversion so you can become on opossum?
And then probably will look like if I learn how to raise them
properly and I learn how to get them process.
So it's monetizable I probably I probably got it, got it pretty
much whipped, but they don't work.
Because the next step is Market access.
Any of these really hard, you can properly raise your animals,
you can get them beautifully processed and then it's really
struggle to give them to consume.
Zoomer Lupe do premium for part 2 cover you additional cost.
You know, you said, you're going to Arkansas.
I'm enjoying show, you know, we write, we do this kind of
farming in places like Arkansas. Missouri, Alabama, Georgia,
Mississippi. Well, though, that's not what
the market is. The market is in those zip
codes, that have high disposable income.
So get that product that process, it raise, it processed
in the process product to those consumers who were valuable is
another set of challenge. And we're struggling with our
right now. We have because I was early in,
I got traction with Whole Foods Market and some other processes
and then he just took off who are kind of so fortunate and
really good. But as greenwashing has,
Manifested itself and become a way of life for so many.
I found myself. Listen less at home in Whole
Foods versus other places too. And and it's not that they are
evil people that wants to break. Farmers, who are doing this
work? That's that's not the deal.
That's what the last 10 years. Who I might be in a bad marriage
with Whole Foods, but did the end of the day?
It's not that they're bad. What you gotta understand.
Is Whole Foods, Market is a publicly traded Corporation.
And those Executives which are pretty much a different crew to
Executives. It was left there 20 years ago.
When I started certain beard, Their job is literally to
maximize return to the shareholders of Whole Foods
Market. They, they don't, they don't
have any wiggle room. That that's what they are,
charged would do it. If they make decisions that done
maximize optimize that shareholders return, they are in
violation of what they're hired to do.
And people like me. Don't fit in there for them.
You know, those folks, those Executives were Whole Foods
Market are they need to be able to pick up the phone?
And say, send me five 48,000 pounds, semi truck, loads of six
hours tunnel. Believed to be able to live
there by States. For several hundred fifty,
something thousand square foot store.
They they can't deal with enough will hash, I'm bigger than most
of my peers in terms of volume production.
And I would love a see 48,000 pounds of 6 oz fillets in one
place and they need many. The semi loads every week.
So what's happened to you? Is no bad guy.
Good guy. Bad guy.
The As industrial farming methods have taken over also,
huge food distribution is taken on.
You'll be the big, big grocery change did not exist before the
end of World War two, small Regional change.
Big food did not exist, like a World War Two, the pepsico's,
and Coca-Cola's and unilever's GBS and Smithville.
Most people. So baked co-evolved together,
they then ever, and there's a codependency, their big food
cannot make it with by big Ag and not make it without big food
distribution. They, they, they, they call Bob
together. They're dependent upon each
other. And, yeah, I hear Farmers that
have not been doing it as long as me say they just don't want
me in there trying to break me. They don't want might know them.
That's All right, they didn't want to freak you use.
Don't think it. You just don't, you don't think
you're. If you owned a chain of women's
clothing, stole goes with, you know, 200 clothing stores.
And it was one sweet woman that made the most beautiful dresses
in the world, but she couldn't make one week.
She's like, I'm hip you can reach right?
Will support. And that's, that's 12 big food.
Big a gap between distribution. So who would be the ideal
clientele for for you going? As far as like a retail outlet
goes, kind of more like a small mom-and-pop shop locally Well,
maybe book, really, I think that really, really far out this the
solution for Farmers, like, this would be fine, consumers, who
are willing to go to the trouble to buy from us directly, whether
it be through online. In our case, whistle, maybe
needs to be doing online store. If the online door, delivered to
your door, FedEx, ups. And that that takes a whole lot
more bandwidth. With from home because part of
the consume you got to be willing to think ahead and more
preparation yourself but you've been we're finding customers to
to do that. Absolutely is if If consumers,
let's use our consumers as well, our one big unit consumers, us
are happy with the damaging food production system that we have.
Keep doing what you do, just keep buying food like you from
big food, big act, big Tech as you keep doing.
If you think the food system is damaged and you will see it
doing different, you going to have to support a production
system, that is different. So that then then back requires
no one to the certain amount of trouble I want, probably saving
treads on. This is my, I want to seduce you
to my granddaughter. This is had a bill to walk.
Hello. Hello, she is.
She's out for spring break. She's good.
Her mama a little building on his.
My daughter, she's been drawn out.
You really worl pretty picture. She's drawn here.
That is beautiful. I love that she's beautiful.
Just put down the wall and he says, I love you because I live.
You will can't believe that come back.
This is some shit. Okay.
Thank you. Thank you.
Be careful, be careful, be careful when we talk about
community building. My a, my office is in the Old
Courthouse. Wondering the courthouse.
It hadn't been used in Providence Century mission,
right? Little this little town of West
Georgia which happens right in the middle of my farm.
Why the best And it will for real girl switch the wall down
the street, who blocks to her mamas office by herself.
That's a, that's the kind of community building I'm talking
about. That's that's what you want.
I feel like there's a that that's near and dear to my
heart. You know I've got I've got a
business as well. We employ handful of people and
I've tried to pour into the community and I think that's
where things need to go. Things said, as of late have
become so far, removed less tangible, everything is online
that which can be great. In a sense, you can impact
people. You're able to ship your product
all over the US to people that value that, which is great.
But from a social from a social standpoint, people don't even
know how to look each other. In the eye, shake their hand
with a firm handshake and just enjoy being present with people.
And I feel like when you can pour into that, then you're
really winning in life. That's when you're find, true
fulfillment. So to see your family all
tightly knit like they are That band, I think is the true
representation of your level of success, right there.
Having your, your granddaughter come in to draw your picture
like that, that speaks volumes. Yep.
Uh, Good As It Gets when it comes to the online component.
Though, I'd love to pick your brain there.
So you sort of moving away from the industrial system in the 90s
and then, you know, online e-commerce.
Like, when did that start? Becoming a big arm of your
distribution point, was that, I guess mid early 2000s.
Mid-2000s Well, actually, I think my daughter came back here
about 10 years ago and will be gone that deep the probably
about 10 years ago. It seems she started online
store so we're going to buy 2013 that's probably about right.
Maybe we'll leave them that, but we did not go anywhere much.
We, we didn't spend much on that.
We didn't have much of a website.
We didn't know. Zero marketing effort.
Didn't have a lot of product in it.
We were selling wholesale about on Grady's. so we just hadn't
put Michelle for them do and you don't get much out what you
don't put much into But when the pandemic Panic happen and that
that was so we went from is probably about a million dollars
a year in sales when it was just a sideline and we immediately
sold out, we sold about six million dollars worth of stuff
in a very short period. And I should have moved out.
Completely away from Whole Foods and others then but I didn't
died. I was kind of addicted to it.
So we, but we did pee pee, it more attention.
And the next year we got I think we had about six million
dollars, that were starting to be enough to move the needle.
And then this year, we think we're going to do about 12
million dollars online. And in fact we need to we don't
have a serious problem. We haven't lost so much of our
wholesale Business program, so outspoken, Really need to say
over a million dollars, don't go away, I'll make of that lost I
should tell you that you said from unemployment people we have
180 and 180 something employees. You know, Thailand of 113
people, look, enjoyment is on Third and people and we're the
largest private employer. In this County, Lee County
Georgia in Clay County has been who is County and States always
in the bottom tier, but it has been pushed out of States.
So Forbes Magazine, tillage So we, why do pastures writes
checks over a hundred thousand dollars every week titled on 13
people. And in the poorest county in the
nation, won't push down as innovation.
So, that back hearkens to the economic impact that I
mentioned, that is important of when I was farming, industrially
in the mid-90s, I'll have about three employees and payroll,
probably 1,000 all that. This is a reason that I hope
people support Farms like this. Certainly make an impact on a
local level but on a grander scale as well.
I mean, you know, I've heard nothing but positivity from
people and their their interaction to your brand, your
company. I mean, how we got connected
through your daughter, Jenny my one of my clients and good
friends that I go elk hunting with, he's actually an
internship in an internship program with the all right now,
so he's They're working with y'all Michael, didn't he
Michael? Didn't he?
Oh, he's great. Very good, guys, Michael asleep.
He's one of my interns. We were very good internship
program. Proud, we take Civics interns,
or times a year for three months.
And you hear internship program often done using my just kids,
but in the case of Michael, he is a 40, something year old,
retired lieutenant colonel greenbury and Brilliant guy,
man's man's wife is up an attorney with the Jag.
And just, you know, high-performing people and those
are the kind of folks that we have here.
I'm very proud of my people. So, what is a typical day in the
life? Of an internship look like in
that program at a curiosity. The way I do a lot of mentoring
is highly variable. So we have, if we pasteries
cows, cows, hog sheep, goats rabbits, hold for it, vegetables
honey, maybe some over this sort of thing in the internship
program, is it's a real programs little a cheap labor.
They were, they were now, it's not a cheap waiver program.
And they have a syllabus and they are assigned going to be a
week with this. And after day, every specie has
a manager, every business has a manager, every building as a
manager, they'll be with this manager, this week, this
manager, this manager, this money, and they rotate.
So there's only one intern with a manager at the time and each
manager through the Three-month program Cycles through all of
those businesses, all those species is so I think spring the
program and again, we do about 24 per year, six of them, 444
year. Goodbye hyphen.
We offer jobs to we're not obligated to but if we like them
we do gives a chance to test drivers who will like and if
they about half of them will choose to stay.
So we we build up a great management team with these in
turn. Very nice.
What is a typical day for you?
Look like, I got a good job except for managing cash flow.
I have a green jobs are hard. Yeah but I don't get observed as
I used to I get to about 5:30 or 6:00.
I go to our restaurant and eat breakfast.
We have by the way, my breakfast, the triple bacon and
coffee. So I know my new business,
you're very nice. We are our restaurant.
Serves three meals a day 7 days a week and I go around, eat
breakfast. Usually somebody in the mail and
I use that opportunity to meet with people employees or
business associates, who around trap set up a meeting for
breakfast if I can but they just don't allow them to multi task.
Make my rounds around the farm. See who's doing?
What he needs to do. What, who's failing to do?
What? Take a lot of pictures in a lot
of text manager. So you please do this, or please
don't do that. Come back tomorrow.
My office here to support house when we courthouse and do some
emails on email, make some phone calls whatever I got to do.
Maybe make another round around the farm.
Go, eat my lunch and stole. Come back to the office.
New few emails, few phone calls, maybe a meeting or two in the
around the farm again, and I got a good job.
That sound like a good, good job.
Indeed. Where do you?
What do you see it going like with with you having been
through various iterations, of the ranching technique.
They're seeing how your father ran it.
Seeing how you've run it in the past, how you run it now?
And then how your kids are taking it going?
Forward. Like where do you see the
trajectory heading? My goddess later.
Well wanted to go where I fear of normal saline.
I would love to see this sort of model.
Emulated over and over and over again.
This model that we built here is not highly scalable.
Now, I don't think my farm he's being a bigger than it is.
But it's highly replicatable now would love C.
There'll be a white oak pastures in every agricultural County in
the nation. That's what I'd like to see.
I'm very worried about what's going to happen.
I think that I see greenwashing breaking, folks, like me and I'm
afraid big Foods going to win, maybe they won't shoot of the,
the Big food, big agritech. I'm making millions and
trillions of dollars on this food system is feeding us.
You know, I don't know how much is this is incredible amount of
movie. I know they're making huge Like
you need to like work damage. Personally date.
How many people bought? A 65 is a huge number of
incredible mom. So the food companies are not
going to change the system, they created the system, it's not
going to happen in Washington d.c. you know, there's too much
money in politics to be the farm policies are written by the
folks will be able that work for the food food companies.
So I know their what the Lions, right?
Right Farm. Turn it over to have some
Congressional aide and why is it being what we have is not going
to happen that the in politics. The land grant universities are
not going to be the change agent for the same reason.
Not to much of their money comes from Big multinational.
Corporation big food, big ass. Bango all know about him is not
doing bad news, everybody. The only thing they can't be
Farms, Farmers can't sleep. You know what, I'm just going to
do it like this. Anyway, the cave ever broke.
So if, if the change occurs still be consumer-driven, it's
going to be because Robert Sykes and Michael and enough people in
this country. Say where I gotta I gotta buy
food today. Day, I'm going to buy from
somebody that's producing it in a way that I like that is
causing no harm or actually healing some harms been done.
And it's going to cost a little more money.
There's going to be a little more aggravation enforcing.
And you've got the loud voice of big food telling you that which
should be. Tonight is great.
It's fine. Shut up.
Eat payment for either is fine. I need to move.
I move too. Well maybe, I don't know you
closer to it than I am. It is fucking George.
It's an interesting scenario and I certainly see the pendulum
moving towards people that are becoming aware of this and
certainly placing the quality of their food in the sourcing of
their food on a higher pedestal as they should and then moving
towards things that offer that as an option.
But at the same time I feel like wow, Now that demographic is
certainly growing the demographic that is totally
ignorant to. That fact is likely growing at a
faster rate and that scares me. Well, people being ignorant is
the biggest issue. There intentionally being
intentionally kept the messaging of big food is what we're
producing is fine. And in this room are and it's
not the only reason, but please don't get me wrong.
I am very aware that they was income disparity, but we've
never had before the people that can't afford people for the
food. And I do understand that my
heart goes out to I can't fix economic disparity.
I'm not putting that on my plate.
Some of y'all want to work with that.
I can fix the food system if you will support that but There is
economic disparity and that is a problem, not the main problem.
The main problem is the fraudulent messaging was being
perpetuated by big food. Well, I'm just one man, but you
got my word in that. I have no intention to ever
purchase food from big food. I'm not having for years and I
don't intend to go back that way.
So I'm, I'm hopefully moving the needle, one small out and when I
can Troll and hopefully this messaging gets crossed enough
people to also move that needle. But you know, I think the more
people I mean, you know, better you do better and I did and
Ideal World and if people know that they understand it, they I
mean people place priority on the strangest things that they
don't ban tonight to spend four bucks 5 bucks.
Seven bucks for a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
You know, putting forth a little bit more towards the quality of
the beef. They're consuming.
He's going to have a much more profound impact on their
long-term health. We're here.
And it's, you know, it's so they are not a difficulty, is I
thought about difficulty in messaging because the voice of
big things so loud and I stand by that.
There's another difficulty, then if you have bet, you know, a lot
of people who have changed the way they eat because they have
health issue, I certainly know, a lot of them, newly developed,
diabetes, have high blood pressure, they had high
cholesterol, the whatever they would do.
And in terms of diet is not working.
It really felt. So they immediately changed
they, they didn't want to feel bad anymore and they didn't
spend money on Pharmaceuticals. So they went to the trouble of
eating different. Well, we're the environment is
further removed than that, you know, the eating from the
damaging food system is as bad for the environment is it is for
your health. But you don't, it's just further
from you. You it's hard to draw those
lines of correlate. The two, you know, species going
extinct is a horrible thing. If you support industrial food,
you are supporting A system that drives many species of plants
and animals microbes will really only station.
But it's hard to put the two together.
You know, things like The Dead Zone in the Gulf whether the
can't get on the Moor is directly tied to this damaging
food production system but you don't put it together like you
do. They got diabetes.
So I mean too much sure all these damaging impacts that come
it's just so hard for people to draw the lines of Carly that.
How they're spending their food when I feel like there's
definitely a Tipping Point in which things will implode.
And I don't know if it's going to come from.
I mean, the the standard people in the standard American diet,
who have seen their health in Decline and continue to decline
with diabetes obesity. Like that is either going to be
the point of implosion in which we can simply not sustain that
trajectory for any longer, or the environment will give out
first. I don't know which of the two
will likely win that race. But I would like to think that
we could correct course before that implosion occurs, but I'm
not sure that's going to happen, I don't know.
Well I prefer to believe again. I'm pragmatic old man.
This little girl, a lot of life and one thing I have come see is
very few. Things randomize change, like
pain when you feel the pain. That's when you really start to
look for a way to make the change.
And all these damaging things that we're doing with this.
This food system, we've got is going to bring pain sooner or
later for me from a myriad of different potential sources.
Health culture environment, civilization pandemic really
fun. I just can't figure out what
changed all the blood - can't. Imagine I can't imagine how
that's going and I worry about it.
You just saw around all here, you know, I'm focused on making.
I can't say you belong. I just damn sure going to save
the world but I may be able to say white oak pastures me me.
I'm not sure, I'm me, but we got a better chance and saving the
world. And I've had a again, come on.
No matter what kind of a crime rocked about trying to bulk up.
Very again, she walking back and forth between here and her
mama's office. My mom has offices in Cruz,
Azul, Courthouse, your mom's office in the old church
building. That's no longer being used as a
probably bored. She's coming back and forth, but
it is, it is going to be some changes down the road and I
don't know what you look like. Well, I think we would all go
crazy if we tried to fix the world's problems in our
lifetime. But I think doing whatever you
can tangibly in your lifetime, to make a difference with those
that you can impact directly like you most certainly are, is
the best any of us can hope for. So I applaud you for what you do
and I've got no doubt that you're making an impact in ways
you don't even yet realize. And I just encourage you to keep
fighting the fight that you are. Okay, but I won't lie to you.
So about a year ago, we sold the book rights to White Oak
pastures to Random House Viking penguin, and they hired a
talented young woman, write the book about white oak pastures.
This is going to come out and sell film is called a bowl
return to giving to them. And it is primarily focused as
lock cultural stuff in it Southern Culture, long history
of farming in it. But most of it is focused on
what's wrong with this damaging, food production system.
And what you can do about, would use an individual that's buying
food everyday can do about it. So, I hope that when that book
comes out, maybe you can. Aang, come back on, talk to you
about it. And help explain the mission for
me. Hey, when you've always got an
open invitation on my podcast, I will do everything in my power,
to spread the word about that book about your company what you
stand for. And I will vote accordingly with
my dollar and only purchase the meat that is sourced properly.
So I have no problem with that whatsoever.
Well, I hope you'll come see me sometime Robert, we got it.
We got cabins who owned the farm for a guest.
Gotta go, snowstorm. Restaurant.
You know, we also set up a non-profit but education founded
by 501 c 3 last year called Center for agricultural.
Zillions We put in we put educational sessions and it's on
our website. You can see what they varied
things are various time. But if you want to come to one
of those on the more than one of those, I'd be glad to post you
to my guests. Stop drinking.
I think you'd like it. Yeah, I would 1000% take you up
on that. I've actually got family in
Georgia, so I need to get down there anyways and see them.
So I'll make it a point to see your operation there as well and
just learn more, and dive deeper, because I'm passionate
about About what you're doing in Georgia Douglasville.
Yeah, just saw a while. Yeah, we're come on.
We're about three hours from there.
Yes, indeed. Well, let's plan on that.
For sure, sir. Well I'll come down there, and
we'll have a both of our Southern Accents in one room and
people won't know what to do. Yeah, we can understand each
other with Williamstown somebody, that's on a man.
Robin thirtyish on, yo, yo woman from England.
Living in California. Then my daughter's generation
and she her many, you know, trying to understand.
Not just my words, but the way I think about things bless her
heart. Hey, it's good to feel like, you
know, Southern Accents, good. Every time everywhere I go is
that that's you know, up north it stands out, but I don't know,
people, listen, it's like they just appreciate it for some
reason. So don't change a thing there.
People walking, people watch authenticity.
Absolutely, absolutely. Well I will link out to the
primary website, White Oak. Pastures.com correct, this group
perfectly, I will do that. I will link out to decide the
books dropping in September. So yep.
And where do people go for information on the nonprofit?
That's also through white oak pastures.
Yeah, but I think there's a link on our website.
It's called Center for agricultural resilience.
And but if I think it's also our website.
Why do passes.com perfect? While Link at the all that, make
it easy for people to find you? Well, here's I can't thank you
enough for taking the time. I've thoroughly enjoyed the
conversation. Good sir.
And I appreciate all that you are doing.
You're making an impact. Are we appreciative enough to
talk to you? The yes indeed sir.
Would go drive around that last round for the farm.
And tell Michael, I said handy and I'll hopefully see here
soon. I'm sure we'll take care.