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Hello and welcome to another 
episode of Old Faces. 

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I'm your host, Mr. Mocha and 
today back with me I have my 

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main man, Drew Marston. 
If you don't know who Drew 

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Marston is, he is the creator of
the Spades magazine. 

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He is the editor. 
He is the brains behind that 

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publication. 
And today we're going to explore

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something that's new, but it's 
not new. 

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Drew, welcome. 
Thank you, Sir. 

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Thank you for having me back. 
I greatly appreciate being on. 

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So Drew Drew is a bisexual black
bull within the lifestyle. 

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Tell me how this came about and 
how this works. 

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Yeah, so, well, the the bull 
part or the bipart? 

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Well, we already talked about 
the the bull part. 

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So how do you navigate the 
lifestyle being a bisexual black

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male, black bull? 
Yeah. 

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So just just really openly and 
honestly, it's really something 

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that I've come out and then open
and honest with, you know, the 

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general public and not something
that I try to hide over the last

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three years or so. 
And before that really kind of 

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coming to terms with you know 
being bisexual and what that 

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meant really happened after I 
was in the lifestyle and then 

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there were occasions and and and
play dates with couples where I 

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engaged in by play and and loved
it and and had great times and 

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all of that and around the 
pandemic started Pandemic. 

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I really just started really 
reassessing, you know, lifestyle

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myself generally and not wanting
to hide that particularly in the

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lifestyle any longer. 
And so I have to come out and 

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own it on my truth. 
So is this something? 

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So you've been the lifestyle for
what, 15 years was it? 

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16 years. 16 years. 
So were you bisexual when you 

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got into the lifestyle, or did 
that happen when you got after 

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you were in? 
So yeah, I looking back on it, 

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I've always been bisexual, 
acknowledging it was something 

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completely different. 
And that was primarily because 

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of, you know, the religious 
background that I had and also 

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to I had some family members who
were, you know, gay, bisexual, 

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that were disowned because of 
their sexual orientation. 

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And so admitting that to myself 
wasn't really an option for me 

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because I felt like I would lose
family and and the community 

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that I had grown up in. 
And as I got older, other things

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drove me away from that 
community, that religious 

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community, but also there were 
wedges and driving apart from 

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family. 
So I really didn't have that 

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necessarily. 
I didn't care about that as much

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anymore. 
So when I got into the 

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lifestyle, I never really had. 
I never done by play or anything

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of the sort. 
So As for just the backdrop of 

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that happening, like there was 
stuff with the family and and 

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leaving religion and all of 
that, I began to experiment more

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with by play with couples that I
was playing with. 

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It was like, well, you know, 
I'm, I'm already so far out of 

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the norm of, you know, my 
upbringing and you know, the 

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communities that I've been a 
part of. 

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I was so out far of the the 
sexual mainstream or norm of 

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those of what I've been brought 
up in that why not try, you 

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know, some of these desires that
I had had And so when I got in 

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the lifestyles where I really 
start to experiment and have my 

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first buy experiences. 
OK. 

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Now how has that affected how's 
that affected your ability to 

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like is that is that a thing 
that you meet couples Let's say 

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you meet a couple and you say OK
this is my interest like with 

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your because one of the things 
that I've found in my experience

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that you know if I meet a couple
and I'm playing with a couple I 

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do appreciate if you know the 
husband is bisexual that he lets

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me know I, I, I mean at the end 
of the day if if he doesn't let 

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me know as long as he doesn't do
anything that's outside of my my

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comfort zone. 
I don't have an issue with it. 

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But I find that I am more 
comfortable when a husband says,

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hey, these are my interest. 
So when you go into a situation 

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with a couple, do you say that 
up front? 

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Yes, yes, I always, you know, a 
part of a little introduction 

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especially if I'm initiating 
contact contact with that 

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couple. 
You know, I let them know, hey, 

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I'm a buy Black Bull, you know, 
with such and such experience in

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the lifestyle, this is what I'm 
looking for. 

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This is what I noticed that I 
thought would make us a good 

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fit. 
There'll be a good connection 

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there. 
But yeah, I always mention being

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bi, so that way people know and 
they understand and it's not 

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something that they feel like 
they get blindsided with. 

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So when after I started having 
by play in the lifestyle, it was

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something that I didn't mention.
I didn't put it on any profiles 

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or anything like that, just 
because there were a lot of 

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profiles that you come across in
which the couples go no guy on 

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guy play, no by play, stuff like
that. 

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And so I pretty much did it as a
defensive mechanism really to 

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protect myself. 
So that way I wouldn't I I 

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wouldn't be rejected by couples 
that I wanted to play with. 

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So you said you didn't put that 
you were bisexual because you 

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didn't want to be rejected by 
the couples who were not into by

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play. 
Exactly, Exactly. 

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And as I became more comfortable
with myself and not wanting to 

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hide that, I just. 
I put it on all of my all of my 

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pages, all of my profiles, you 
know, everything that I have. 

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And what I've found is what 
happens is that a lot of times 

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I'll get reached out to you by 
couples that have that on their 

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page. 
No guy contact, no guy on guy 

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contact because I'm listed as by
all and they wanted to 

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experience that or they wanted 
to play in that way themselves, 

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which is an interesting dynamic.
Wait, so you're saying that 

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couples who openly say no by 
play will will reach out to you?

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Yep. 
Yep, that's happened to me a lot

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of times. 
I. 

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Became open with, with, being 
with, being by and open about 

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that. 
So is that because Is that one 

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of those situations where you 
you have a a husband who's 

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trying to who's so concerned 
that people think that he he he 

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by that he's saying oh oh nobody
play, nobody play but that's 

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what he really wants or yeah I. 
I. 

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No, no, go ahead you that that's
my my curiosity on that. 

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One yeah, So what I what I think
is that it's a it. 

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It's really and this isn't 
always the case. 

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I mean, I think there's a lot of
genuine cases out there in which

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people are posting on their 
profile, no, by play and they 

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sincerely mean that. 
Like, that's not their thing and

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that's, you know, But what I 
find is a lot of people who are 

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posting it on there are probably
doing the same thing that I was 

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doing when I didn't post that I 
was by, when I knew that I was 

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by and I was engaged in by play 
because there's such a stigma 

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around any type of male 
bisexuality in the lifestyle. 

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And So what they're doing in 
some ways, I think some of the 

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couples that contacted me that 
still had that on their 

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profiles, what they were doing 
was in a sense virtue sickling 

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or sickling to parts of the 
lifestyle, OK, we're interested 

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in this bull. 
This bull is very straight and 

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he's not into any of that. 
And we don't want to ruin our 

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chance of getting with that bull
by acknowledging any sort of bi 

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inclinations that we may have. 
So I think that's what was going

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on with a lot of those couples 
that contacted me, even though 

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they had that on their page. 
And then when they found me, it 

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was like, oh, OK, here's the guy
who's open and out about it. 

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So he's probably more willing to
let us have that experience 

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together. 
And you know something that I I 

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definitely agree with that 
because I will be honest with 

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you for years, for years if I 
saw that a a couple had on their

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profile that they were into by 
play, I wouldn't, I would not 

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engage or respond to that couple
at all. 

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What's interesting is it was 
years later that that I realized

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that just because someone has 
that on their profile or omits 

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it from their profile, you never
really know who's what. 

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And there were, you know, there 
there were multiple times where 

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after having conversations with 
people where they're like, Oh 

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well, did you know that this 
particular couple, they're, you 

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know, they're into my play and 
I'm like, wait, wait, what? 

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You know, like I fucked right 
next to that guy. 

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You know, we've tag teamed 
someone together and you know, 

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early on in, early on, like it 
would freak me out. 

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Like just just freak me the fuck
out completely. 

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And then all of a sudden, like 
you realize, like, wait, why? 

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Why am I freaked out by that? 
You know, the guy, the guy 

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hasn't touched me. 
The guy hasn't hit on me. 

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You know, he hasn't done 
anything to make me 

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uncomfortable. 
But there were, I mean, lots of 

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years that I would not, I would 
not even respond to a couple 

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that had buy play on there 
because I always assumed that, 

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you know, it's going to be 
automatically. 

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Oh, that means this guy's got to
suck your Dick or this guy's 

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going to want to play with your 
balls. 

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You know, it. 
It was, it was like an automatic

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assumption. 
And so I think that once I 

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realized that wasn't the case, 
or let me be more honest, once 

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my wife taught me that that 
wasn't the case, once she 

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explained to me that wasn't the 
case. 

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But I definitely think that that
that was a a huge thing. 

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And the second reason was I 
didn't want to be associated 

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with it because I didn't want 
other couples to think, OK, well

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he's bisexual and on our profile
because obviously we've we've 

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been the lifestyle and we know 
so many couples, so many people.

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There was a time where that had 
to change because we have 

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couples and friends in the 
lifestyle who on their profile 

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they say that the husband's 
bisexual, which I can remember 

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the first. 
I can remember the first couple 

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who we were friends with years 
ago, who we'd known them out. 

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You know, we go to meet and 
greets. 

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We'd always know we hang out 
with them. 

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I mean, we've been to sex clubs 
with them. 

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I play with the wife. 
And it just so happened we'd 

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never friended each other on the
sites. 

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And we got a firm request. 
And I click on the firm request 

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and I'm like, I get missus mocha
like, hey, hey, hey, did you 

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know that this guy was bisexual?
And she was like, how did you 

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not know this guy was bisexual? 
And then all of a sudden you 

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start realizing and and you know
I can be I can be adult enough 

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to admit that our programming 
when we're growing up makes us 

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almost you're you're you're 
almost taught to be homophobic. 

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It's just kind of what you're 
taught. 

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So being deprogrammed was was a 
big thing and my wife really 

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deprogrammed me to that where 
it's like OK. 

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You know you're you're no one's 
gonna eat you nobody's gonna no 

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one's gonna jump on your back. 
Honey you're you're a 230 LB. 

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Martial artist. 
You're fine. 

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You're safe no one. 
And and then you start realizing

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like, oh, it's OK to associate 
with couples who are bisexual. 

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It's OK to even play with a play
with his wife. 

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And you don't have to assume 
that this person is going to do 

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anything to you. 
But it was a very long time. 

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And to this day, I have lots of 
male friends who will will tell 

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you openly, like, no, I'm not 
going to play with a wife whose 

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husband is bisexual. 
And I'm like, dude, you play 

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with a lot of wives with 
bisexual husbands that you just 

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don't know they're bisexual. 
Don't know. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
Yeah. 

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And that's and that's the thing 
that, you know, with playing 

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even with couples that I, you 
know, last. 

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Yeah, last year I met up with a 
couple when I still lived in 

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flipping Indiana and they were 
just across the line in Kentucky

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for me and the the initial 
contacts with the husband, he's 

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like, well, he said. 
So you know, I, I do all the 

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vetting and I showed you to my 
wife and she really loves your 

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page. 
She, you know, loved the podcast

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links that you were on and 
everything really would like to 

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make something happen, he said. 
I will let you know that I want 

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to talk with you about one thing
and I said sure, shoot, I'm an 

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open book. 
He goes, I'm not bi. 

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I don't do any guy on guy play 
and I go, well, it's not, it's 

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not obligatory, you know, it's 
not like you have to, you know, 

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just because I'm bi, the bi play
is obligatory. 

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Like you have to do something 
like that's not the case. 

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And to be honest with you, like 
even being bi like if it's like 

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I wasn't attracted to him at 
all. 

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00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,360
So like there wasn't like going 
to be an option for me. 

222
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,040
I was there purely for his wife 
who was a complete knockout. 

223
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:44,760
And you know, so it was one of 
those deals of like explaining 

224
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,720
to him like this isn't going to 
what's not going to happen. 

225
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:56,240
And what I don't believe ever 
happens is by Guy comes into a 

226
00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:02,720
situation with the couple who 
isn't where the male isn't by 

227
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,720
and everybody's having a great 
time. 

228
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,640
They go back to wherever to play
get naked, The wife is there, 

229
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:20,240
and this guy, the Bible just 
sees this straight husband naked

230
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,839
for the first time. 
It's like forget the wife. 

231
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:29,760
I gotta have it. 
And then, like, then, like, you 

232
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,120
know, the Bible jumps on you and
the husband. 

233
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,080
Like, No. 
Like. 

234
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,800
Like, like. 
Get him off me. 

235
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:43,640
Get him off. 
Me and then like, you know, 

236
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,000
there's like a a flash forward 
to him like in the in the 

237
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,400
therapist office on the soap, in
the fetal positions, like in. 

238
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,440
And it just changed everything 
for me in that moment. 

239
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,200
Like, no, that doesn't happen, 
bro. 

240
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,960
Like that's that's not like the 
way this works, not the way any 

241
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,480
of this works. 
You know, there's levels to it 

242
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:11,080
and you know for me, when I've 
done by play, there's levels for

243
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,000
it to it, for me. 
So for me personally, there have

244
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:20,320
been couples in which I've been 
very attracted to the guy that 

245
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,240
I've played with. 
And if I'm like if I'm not 

246
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,520
attracted, then I'm not going to
say anything especially or if I 

247
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,080
am attracted and I know they're 
not, doesn't prove me to say 

248
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,560
anything. 
I'm not going to say anything. 

249
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,040
You know, that's Warren Rich, 
You know, I'm there for the 

250
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:43,280
white and every situation, every
couple that I play with there 

251
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,960
for the white. 
First, the five play is just 

252
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,080
kind of like the gravy, you know
what I mean? 

253
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,680
So the there have been 
situations in which I played 

254
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,240
with the guy that I was 
attracted to the guy and that 

255
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,520
that was even better. 
And then there have been 

256
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,360
situations where the guy wasn't 
necessarily a type or someone 

257
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,560
that I would have played with in
any other situation besides that

258
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,800
situation. 
But I was attracted to the 

259
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,480
nuance and ways that I could 
dominate him and that he was 

260
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:22,120
completely submissive to me and 
the dynamic of dominating him 

261
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,600
and then being with his wife in 
front of him. 

262
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,440
So there was that. 
There was that meant that that 

263
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,160
really that mental aspect really
appeals to me. 

264
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,120
And then you throw in, you know,
a little bit of the racial 

265
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:43,000
aspect of the, here's this white
guy, usually of a certain age, 

266
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:49,080
you know, over 40 in a lot of 
cases with, you know, big time 

267
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,320
career where he's probably like 
an executive or he's, you know, 

268
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:58,800
in a position of authority. 
And in this instance, he's 

269
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,360
completely submissive to this 
black guy who's younger than 

270
00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:09,960
him, who's literally about to 
have his way with his wife in 

271
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:16,640
front of him. 
That is like a real mindfuck and

272
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,560
one that one that like really 
turns me on. 

273
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:24,560
So like there's there's like all
these dynamics that kind of go 

274
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,240
into that play. 
And then when you're talking 

275
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,360
with a couple, especially when 
you're talking with a couple 

276
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,600
who's in the by play, you have 
to understand where they're at. 

277
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,760
Because in some cases it's a 
situation where, you know, the 

278
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,040
guy may have had two by play 
before he got married and he 

279
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,280
told the wife about it and she 
was OK with it. 

280
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,760
Like if they if the journey went
to that space, she was OK with 

281
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,280
it. 
You have some situations in 

282
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,560
which, you know, the guy has 
never had any experience with 

283
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,320
another man and it's something 
that he wants to experience. 

284
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,440
So like there's only certain 
things that he may want to do 

285
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,880
like fluff or you know a few 
things like that. 

286
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,520
And then there's some guys that 
are just like like basically I 

287
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,240
like what you do to my wife. 
I want you to do to me too. 

288
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,720
Like there's, you know that that
level of it. 

289
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,240
Yeah. 
And so and then you have to add 

290
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,440
then there are you have to 
because there's three people of 

291
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:29,520
this. 
So as a as A5 bull, I take it as

292
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:35,360
my responsibility to find out 
what is the wife's level of 

293
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:42,240
comfort. 
Because a lot of times what 

294
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,520
she'll have is the wife is 
interested in the idea or she's 

295
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:52,640
OK with him receiving male on 
male pleasure she's you know, 

296
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,160
that doesn't bother her. 
She may not one want to be 

297
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:02,280
around to see it because she may
have like a mental thing about 

298
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:09,320
guy on guy or an idea or a thing
about seeing him get pleasure 

299
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,800
from someone else, not her. 
So whether that's a man or a 

300
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,560
woman, so you have So as a fool 
I have to you know, ascertain 

301
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,800
and have those conversations 
with. 

302
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,240
So what is your level of comfort
like once I find out like what 

303
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,520
he's looking for, like what his 
level of comfort is? 

304
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,440
What is your level of comfort? 
What are you wanting to see? 

305
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,360
What are you comfortable with 
all of that? 

306
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,720
So then you understand where 
everybody's comfort levels are, 

307
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,560
where their boundaries are and 
you can play within that. 

308
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:44,200
And if you have a good time with
that, then people are usually 

309
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,640
willing to push a little bit 
further past those boundaries or

310
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,040
explore even more with you 
because they have comfort and 

311
00:22:51,040 --> 00:23:02,680
they have trust level there, so.
So in in that situation and the 

312
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,920
situation where so you're like 
you're you're definitely like 

313
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:14,000
fully committed you're you're in
like you you've your role is 

314
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:22,600
your role within the lifestyle. 
Do you lose out on couples who 

315
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:31,680
are not into by guys and do you 
find that other men in the 

316
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,400
lifestyle are not as comfortable
with you? 

317
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,920
And I asked that question 
because it's interesting where 

318
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,240
it it's kind of one of those 
things where I I think a lot of 

319
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,920
guys are very comfortable with 
the husbands being gay or bi or 

320
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:59,280
pan or whatever, but they're not
comfortable if a bull is pan or 

321
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,800
bi or gay. 
How does those like, how does 

322
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:11,160
that like do you find that that 
that affects how you interact, 

323
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,960
who you interact with and how 
you feel within the space? 

324
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:24,800
Yeah. 
So for me the what has, what has

325
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:31,000
fundamentally changed is that 
the couples that I'm interacting

326
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:38,360
with when I first got into the 
being open about being bi and 

327
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,480
all of that, one of the things 
that happened for me is I was 

328
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,760
worried that I would lose access
to couples because of you know, 

329
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,720
they're they they don't play 
with Bibles and like oh I really

330
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,040
want to be with that wife but 
you know it's going to be 

331
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,960
uncomfortable a lot of cases for
the husband to be around the 

332
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:09,640
Bible. 
OK Now my belief is is is much 

333
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:16,280
different. 
I am so I I am becoming so 

334
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:22,080
comfortable in who I am and 
embracing that fully that I 

335
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,920
don't worry about lose. 
I don't term it as losing 

336
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,000
because if someone doesn't want 
to be with me, like I'm at the 

337
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,360
same spot where I was, you know,
before I even met them. 

338
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,120
So I didn't really lose 
anything. 

339
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:40,760
I didn't invest anything, didn't
lose anything. 

340
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:48,560
But the for me what has happened
is I've had the benefit of 

341
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:57,960
achieving quality and quantity. 
So I, as I as I came out is by. 

342
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,480
It actually opened me up to a 
lot more couples that I thought 

343
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,880
I wouldn't be able to play with 
and then. 

344
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,600
Explain that. 
It well, it distinguished me. 

345
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:16,560
It it it, it gave me a 
distinguishing feature of, you 

346
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,960
know, being different in a way 
that you know they're. 

347
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,480
Don't get me wrong, I'm not the 
only 5 bull that's out there. 

348
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,320
But I'm a part of a very small. 
I'm a part of a very, very, very

349
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,120
small minority of bulls who will
be willing to be open and honest

350
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:37,760
about it and not hide it. 
OK, So that is that is 

351
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,240
appealing. 
And then there are couples out 

352
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:48,320
there that want to be able to 
have that experience with a 

353
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,440
Bible. 
They want to be able to have a 

354
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,280
bull where you know the spirits 
with a bull where of course the 

355
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,280
wife is the the focal point of 
all the play. 

356
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,960
But the husband can get in there
where he fits in, you know, you 

357
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,920
see what I'm saying? 
And with without, without 

358
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,480
discomfort to anyone, without 
any judgement or anything. 

359
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:18,480
And so that opened me up to 
couples who were looking for 

360
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,200
that but who didn't, who weren't
able to find that and would 

361
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,560
reach out to me, it's like, hey,
like we're interested. 

362
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,800
That's something that we're 
looking for. 

363
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:37,680
So the quantity perspective, the
number of couples that's open to

364
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:43,880
me is, is, is, is more than 
before because it's like I said,

365
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,240
I have a distinguishing feature,
one that couples are looking 

366
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,200
for, a lot of couples are 
looking for. 

367
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,840
And in many cases, I mean 
there's at least several 

368
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,400
instances and I believe we had 
talked about this a couple of 

369
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,560
times, you know, in our, in our 
conversations off right there 

370
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:06,080
are, there are some couples that
I literally thought I would 

371
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,960
like, OK, I saw her and I'm 
like, OK, I don't have a shot. 

372
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,960
And now they've reached out to 
me because they know that I'm a 

373
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,640
Bible and I'm open and honest 
about it. 

374
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,920
And not only do I have a shot, 
but like they're actively 

375
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:27,120
pursuing me for play 
opportunities, you know, so, so 

376
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:32,240
it's it's that. 
But also the quality of my 

377
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,840
interactions has gotten 
exponentially better because 

378
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:43,400
there's there really are the 
barriers are are the barriers 

379
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,560
that might be there, the the 
walls or whatever. 

380
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:53,480
Those aren't as prevalent. 
The couples that I meet and I 

381
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,800
play with, I have incredible 
experiences with incredible 

382
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,800
dynamics. 
With conversation, sex, what 

383
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,720
have you like? 
It's the quality of those 

384
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:11,240
interactions is so much better. 
Been even some of my best 

385
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,800
experiences before I was open 
and honest about it. 

386
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:23,560
So my, my, my time in the 
lifestyle since coming out of 

387
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:30,880
the Bible has been just really 
like going to the next level for

388
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:37,520
me personally. 
So what do you say for because 

389
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,240
you know, this is a a 
conversation that over the years

390
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,000
I've definitely had with quite a
few guys, quite a few bulls out 

391
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:52,640
there who are bisexual. 
But they're worried about the, 

392
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,680
you know, the the consequences 
of coming out. 

393
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:06,160
I I mean, I know that I've 
talked to friends who have found

394
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,000
out that a guy in their circle 
was bisexual and they pretty 

395
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,160
much ostracized that guy. 
I know I've talked to. 

396
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,760
You know, I had some 
conversations with a few guys 

397
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,280
who were saying that, you know, 
they had played with couples and

398
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,640
the couples, kind of the couples
put their business out there. 

399
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,640
I mean, I actually had somebody,
you know, I've had guys come to 

400
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,880
me and and like, they're almost 
asking for like, like my 

401
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,200
blessing. 
Like, you know, hey, you know, 

402
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,120
I'm not gay, but like, whoa, 
whoa, whoa. 

403
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,480
First of all, as your Dick is 
not mine, you do what you want 

404
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,840
with your Dick. 
And from a male standpoint, you 

405
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,000
know, men and women are 
different. 

406
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:04,080
You know when a guy thinks about
doing something, like dudes 

407
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,720
don't really experiment with the
thing. 

408
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,040
Like, there's no such thing as a
dude experimenting with 

409
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,400
something sexually, because a 
dude has already thought about 

410
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,720
it. 
He's beat his Dick to it 1000 

411
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,800
times. 
And so whatever it is that you 

412
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,360
actually the choose that you 
want to do, even if you haven't 

413
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,840
done it yet, your mind is fully 
committed to it. 

414
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,760
You know the, you know, your 
first threesome, your you know 

415
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,240
the first time you do anything, 
you know that's something that 

416
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,920
your mind is already. 
You already perceived it. 

417
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:50,120
So what do you tell guys who are
on the fence or guys who are 

418
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,600
having a hard time saying, hey, 
this is how I feel and this is 

419
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,440
what I want to do, but I'm 
worried about being judged by my

420
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,000
peers. 
What do you tell those guys? 

421
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,360
The first thing I would tell 
them is you got to own your shit

422
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,480
completely. 
And what I mean by that is if 

423
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,680
you got to decide for yourself 
you know what you want to be and

424
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:21,840
how you want to be typecast, for
lack of a better word, you you 

425
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,680
have to. 
So if you got to come to a 

426
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,400
level, for myself, I came to a 
level of comfort about this is 

427
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,320
who I am and I'm not willing to 
hide this part of myself on the 

428
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,960
lifestyle. 
I'm going to own that. 

429
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,920
I'm buy, I like buy play, I'm 
going to own the fuck out of 

430
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:44,080
that. 
And for some guys, if you're 

431
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,800
still in the headset, if you're 
still in the headspace of you 

432
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,760
know I'm going to lose or I 
don't want to lose this group of

433
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,600
people. 
They need to need to decide 

434
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,840
what's what's more important to 
you. 

435
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,000
It. 
Is it more important to you to 

436
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,440
be acknowledged and accepted for
who you are or is it more 

437
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,160
important to you to be a part of
this set of in this group of 

438
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,560
people. 
Yeah. 

439
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,200
And at some point and and and 
that's I'm not going to judge 

440
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,840
anybody to say that's right or 
wrong because it's I've been at 

441
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:26,320
in in spaces in which it was at 
at some point in my journey. 

442
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,040
It was more important for me to 
be with this particular group or

443
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:37,200
this particular couple than to 
be completely and fully who I 

444
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,760
was. 
OK, now that had some 

445
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,560
detrimental effects for me 
because I never, you know, 

446
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,680
completely own my truth. 
And and looking back on that 

447
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,960
now, for me personally, I felt 
that I I felt that for me that 

448
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,160
was a little bit immature to 
want to be with that couple just

449
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,240
because I want to be with them. 
But that's how I felt at that 

450
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:02,800
point. 
So I would tell them is you have

451
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:08,360
to judge what is most important 
to you in that moment and then 

452
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:14,480
own it. 
But I can tell you that if you 

453
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:22,000
are by, if you are into by play 
and you're worried about losing 

454
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,440
whatever, whatever couple or 
group that you lost, I can 

455
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,679
guarantee you, based on my 
experience alone, that it will 

456
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,840
open up more, better and greater
for you. 

457
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:41,199
And you'll find, you know, like 
you find your tribe and they 

458
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,960
gravitate towards you because 
you're putting that out into the

459
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,480
universe. 
The second thing that I would 

460
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:54,960
say is we also have to become 
more cognizant and this 

461
00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:02,480
lifestyle of labels and terms 
because I think a lot of times 

462
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,040
things get so fixed to where 
it's you. 

463
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,200
People almost feel like they're 
shackled to what that term means

464
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,520
and they can't experiment and 
make it their own and add their 

465
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,680
own little twist on it and then 
be able to articulate that and a

466
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,880
clear, concise way to the people
that they meet. 

467
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,840
Those are people that I feel 
like have the best life's best, 

468
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,560
you know, experiences in this 
lifestyle. 

469
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,960
Oh, I'm this and this is what 
this means to me. 

470
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:40,040
OK so for instance I I'm a 
fully, I'm I'm fully capable and

471
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:47,400
enjoy having experiences with 
couples in which I can have full

472
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,960
on play with the wife and oral 
play from the husband or full on

473
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,560
play with both. 
There are guys that are not 

474
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,160
comfortable with that do not 
want to do that. 

475
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,880
And that doesn't mean that you 
know if you're full on, if 

476
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,840
you're if you have play with the
husband where he fluffs you or 

477
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,000
whatever, that doesn't make you 
buy. 

478
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,160
You're more hetero flexible at 
that point. 

479
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,280
You're very much heterosexual, 
but you're flexible to do some 

480
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,480
other things, and that's OK too,
you know? 

481
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,400
And so. 
Wait, wait, wait. 

482
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:31,360
Yeah. 
Hold on. 

483
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:37,560
Wait a minute. 
All right, here's the thing. 

484
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:44,000
OK, now you're putting too much 
stress on a label. 

485
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,600
Because here's the here's the 
thing about a label. 

486
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,360
There's two ways that people 
play with labels. 

487
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:58,000
They either, they either pretend
like this thing doesn't exist, 

488
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,880
there's a definition of a word. 
They don't like the definition, 

489
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:10,040
and what they don't like is the 
idea that is associated with the

490
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,560
definition. 
OK, because you hear the word 

491
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:20,400
bisexual and you know most guys,
the next word they jump to is 

492
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,600
homosexual. 
And then the next thing, the 

493
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,520
visual images, either some guy, 
you know, giving it to him or 

494
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,440
them, you know, gagging on a 
Dick. 

495
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,440
So the problem is when you hear 
the word bisexual, now all of a 

496
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,280
sudden, even if you don't do 
everything a person imagines you

497
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,720
do, what you're doing now is 
you're trying to alter the 

498
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:48,880
definition because you don't 
like what the title insinuates. 

499
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,720
You gotta. 
You can't have it both ways. 

500
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:55,360
You can't say people get too 
wrapped up in definitions and 

501
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,040
then you redefine the word 
because you don't like what the 

502
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,080
definition says. 
You can't tell people to be 

503
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,960
confident in what they're doing.
If you're telling them to be 

504
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,880
ashamed of what they're doing by
removing pieces of it like you. 

505
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,360
Like with my wife, when you talk
about being a slut, you're going

506
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,680
to be a slut or you're not going
to be a slut. 

507
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,800
You got to own it. 
Here's where I'll push back on 

508
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,960
that a little bit, because I 
think that people have to feel 

509
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:23,080
in some ways a little bit 
comfortable in how they're 

510
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,160
either being perceived or how 
they're being or how they want 

511
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,440
people to be perceived. 
And the perfect illustration of 

512
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,720
what I'll give you for that and 
the lifestyle is the term stag 

513
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,440
stag fixing. 
Before it was understood that 

514
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,720
like you know and historically 
guy who's into or a guy who's 

515
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,000
watching his wife get fucked by 
another guy, whether he that's 

516
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,960
willing or unwilling with a 
cuckold. 

517
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,720
But because cuckold tended to be
associated with certain elements

518
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:06,400
of the lifestyle, particularly 
by play, straight guys started 

519
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:14,400
using the term stag as a more 
masculine or whatever term to 

520
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,800
identify, hey, oh we're we're 
not into like the five, you 

521
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:24,840
know, the five aspects of like 
cuckold player. 

522
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,400
We don't, we we associate being 
a cuck with that stuff that we 

523
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,680
don't do. 
And so this term is to clearly 

524
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,040
define for everybody when you 
see this, you know, OK, this is 

525
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,880
generally what they're into. 
So when I say that for like a 

526
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:46,080
bull if you're not into. 
At what point do I push back on 

527
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,280
that? 
That what you just said? 

528
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,000
Do I wait till you finish the 
sentence or do we chop it up in 

529
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:57,040
peace? 
All right, here's the thing to 

530
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,400
me, when you're, I think when 
we're talking about breaking 

531
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,680
down and identifying things, all
right, because if someone goes, 

532
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,800
OK. 
You're cuckold, OK? 

533
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,240
We we understand that within 
this ecosystem, because the 

534
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,360
lifestyle is an ecosystem, all 
right? 

535
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,240
The reason that is, is just to 
give the person the definition, 

536
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:26,000
a clear definition of what we're
doing. 

537
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,520
So I don't even think it has 
anything to do with necessarily 

538
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:34,000
saying, OK, 'cause I don't want 
to be, you know, feel 

539
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,320
emasculated. 
I think it comes down to this 

540
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,640
when someone's asking me, hey, 
how do you guys play? 

541
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,480
All right. 
Because just like when you use 

542
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,840
the word swinger, you can be a 
soft swapper, you could be a 

543
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,960
full swapper. 
But if I say swinger, that 

544
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,000
doesn't define those two. 
OK, well, what kind of swinger 

545
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,760
are you? 
So when we're talking about the 

546
00:40:53,760 --> 00:41:01,040
difference between a cuckold and
a stag, OK, what kind of guy are

547
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,400
you? 
So that way if I see the word 

548
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,600
cuckold, OK, I understand that 
there is you want to see your 

549
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,560
wife fucked and there is a level
of humiliation involved when you

550
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,040
say stag. 
OK, I understand that this guy 

551
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,080
is a person who lets his wife 
get fucked and he fucks other 

552
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,320
wives. 
If I say hot wife, I understand 

553
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,360
that this guy wants to promote 
his wife getting fucked, 

554
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,560
although he don't want 
humiliation. 

555
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,680
So now those definitions are 
there so that you can quickly 

556
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:41,240
identify which is which. 
Now when we go back to the 

557
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:46,560
sexuality piece, all right, 
because especially for men, I 

558
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:54,600
can't speak for women, but for 
men, we understand that our sex 

559
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,800
always evolves. 
No man, nowhere who's been 

560
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,840
having sex with women. 
His his sex will always evolve 

561
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,400
if he's having consistent sex. 
So whether it be go from just 

562
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,520
having vaginal to now she's 
sucking your Dick to now you're 

563
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,960
fucking in the ass now you're 
doing different positions. 

564
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,640
So in a situation, and I can 
only speak from the man's 

565
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,560
standpoint when we're talking 
about male sexuality, if I am 

566
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:31,680
engaging with and sexual acts 
with a man and a woman by 

567
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,520
definition as bisexual. 
Just like the other day I had 

568
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,680
somebody say to me that I work 
out with a preacher and he was 

569
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,280
saying that one of his 
parishioners, he asked them were

570
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,480
they having sex out of wedlock 
and they go, no, we're just 

571
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:54,120
doing oral. 
OK, it the the title is oral 

572
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,840
sex. 
So he didn't ask for you having 

573
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,440
intercourse. 
He said, are you having sex? 

574
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,160
So to me, she was playing word 
games. 

575
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,840
And to me, like, if I say OK, 
well, there's different levels 

576
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,680
to bisexuality, I agree with 
that. 

577
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,640
There's also different levels to
sex. 

578
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,120
But you know, there's different 
levels to heterosexual sex. 

579
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,200
But that's it's heterosexual 
sex. 

580
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:23,600
We can dive into the levels of 
it because, well, she don't. 

581
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,960
I only get my Dick sucked. 
OK, but that's still 

582
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,600
heterosexual. 
I only get hand jobs from 

583
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,320
chicks. 
Well that's still heterosexual 

584
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,520
but now which? 
And once again I'm not knocking 

585
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:39,320
it, but I'm just saying by 
definition I think that the the 

586
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,480
difference in the lifestyle is 
we shouldn't have to. 

587
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,160
We shouldn't, in the lifestyle 
have to do with a lot of people 

588
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:53,360
outside the lifestyle do change 
the definition of things so that

589
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,120
people feel better about him. 
I should be comfortable. 

590
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,560
If we're saying we want every 
guy who wants to be in this 

591
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,960
space to feel comfortable being 
bisexual, we should get him 

592
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,400
comfortable with the word and 
the concept and not try to 

593
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,480
construct it differently because
now you're training him to lie 

594
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,360
to other to couples. 
Well, no, I'm not bisexual. 

595
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,040
Either you are or you aren't, 
you know what I'm saying? 

596
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,120
Because now you give him a place
to lie. 

597
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:25,560
Yeah. 
No, no, no. 

598
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:32,960
I can see that I I can 
completely see that my my stance

599
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:40,560
has always been for because like
I said you know the stigma there

600
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:49,840
is very very real for for I 
agree and you know so I've 

601
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,040
always approached it especially 
since being out in the open 

602
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:58,680
myself of you know comfort level
being able to articulate 

603
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,440
according to your comfort level 
without lying to people 

604
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,880
basically. 
But no, I I agree with you know,

605
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:13,160
being being clear about the you 
know, definitions and what this 

606
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:20,440
means And so that way there 
because you're you're 100% right

607
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,240
with the lifestyle that we're 
in. 

608
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:29,160
There should not be stigma 
around what people are doing 

609
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:36,080
among consenting adults because 
the the lifestyle in and of 

610
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:41,320
itself is so far out of the 
quote UN quote mainstream that 

611
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,680
this should be the most open and
accepting place. 

612
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,920
But we bring a lot of those that
outside world into this. 

613
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:54,240
But no, I I agree with your 
sentiments by and large on that.

614
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:01,280
So going into you know just kind
of just, you know going full 

615
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,560
circle with it. 
I will say that I I am very 

616
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:10,160
impressed in. 
I'm very impressed that you know

617
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,880
coming from the same level of 
programming that everyone else 

618
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,720
has come from who stepped out of
the vanilla world into the 

619
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:19,600
lifestyle, being able to get 
past multiple levels of 

620
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,240
programming and say, OK, I 
understand that within my 

621
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:25,720
family, outside of the 
lifestyle, I've already seen how

622
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:29,960
they respond to to anyone who's 
not in a heterosexual 

623
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,240
relationship. 
But you know I'm going to still 

624
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:38,280
get into the lifestyle and be 
open and do what I want to do. 

625
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,480
I definitely think that there is
a a huge space excuse me, and a 

626
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:51,360
need for for for guys to be able
to feel comfortable with it. 

627
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,280
It's conversation that that I 
I've had multiple times. 

628
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,920
I know that. 
You know I spoke to Mike C and 

629
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,720
he's encountered those 
questions. 

630
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,680
Dimitri and I had a conversation
about guys, you know, being 

631
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,320
guys. 
The guys come to and talk to 

632
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,400
him. 
It's cool to have a guy who is 

633
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,160
this is what I want. 
This is what I like and I'm very

634
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,600
open upfront about it And 
because I know for me it gets 

635
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,560
awkward when a guy is like 
looking to me to see if I'm 

636
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,360
going to judge him. 
Like bro, I'm not going to judge

637
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,960
you like I don't like, I don't 
care what you do with your Dick.

638
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,080
Like it's not it's not my Dick. 
You know what I'm saying? 

639
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,080
You know are we still going to 
be friends after? 

640
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,480
Absolutely. 
But we also had to get past a 

641
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,160
certain level of programming 
because your programs your whole

642
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,280
life that that's not cool. 
And I I've said it before and 

643
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:48,360
I'll say it honestly, my wife is
the one who who changed my 

644
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:54,440
perspective on how I respond to 
that. 

645
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:01,480
And we've had the discussion 
many times about men not having 

646
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,240
spaces where they can express 
themselves. 

647
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,720
And right now there's a huge 
movement. 

648
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:14,640
And, you know, since my wife, 
since we started the podcast 

649
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:21,520
back in 2019, my wife has been 
an advocate for women to, you 

650
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:27,240
know, be dirty, be open, be 
slutty, be what you want to be. 

651
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,880
And that's something that's 
really taken off. 

652
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,680
But they're still really, 
there's not a space for dudes 

653
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,000
who can say, you know, I want to
do what I want, and that's 

654
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,560
within the lifestyle. 
Now, of course, there's 

655
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,560
different communities in 
different places where you know,

656
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,960
guys can have a certain level of
freedom, but within the 

657
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,000
lifestyle, it's still, it still 
doesn't exist. 

658
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,160
You know it doesn't exist 
because you know guys, you know,

659
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,440
we talk about guys managing 
their emotions. 

660
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,920
So, you know, I appreciate you 
sharing that. 

661
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,120
And, you know, I definitely 
think that you would be a good 

662
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:11,640
resource for guys who were 
saying, hey, I want to do this, 

663
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,240
you know, I want to do this 
openly. 

664
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:21,800
But I don't know if I, I don't 
know what to expect if I decide 

665
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:27,320
to openly embrace being a 
bisexual black bull. 

666
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:33,320
You know, because the black 
culture is is not very open to 

667
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:39,000
men being anything but, you 
know, super, you know, macho, 

668
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,960
manly, you know all Dick all the
time, you know. 

669
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:48,240
So that's pretty cool. 
Yeah. 

670
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,840
And that's the thing, you know, 
with dealing with that. 

671
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:58,600
You know it's so I feel like 
they're like I said in the 

672
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,200
lifestyle there's a lot of 
acceptance for me from couples 

673
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:10,280
that I that I've interacted with
since I've come out to the open.

674
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:17,760
I the the reaction from other 
bulls has been kind of mixed. 

675
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:23,400
There's been some guys that 
have, you know, told me that 

676
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,400
that wasn't something like they 
were. 

677
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,920
I had one bull that reached out 
to me who's kind of become a 

678
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:34,920
little bit more antagonistic 
towards me. 

679
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,000
I think it's driven by the fact 
of me being openly by. 

680
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,200
But I remember first 
conversation that we had after I

681
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:48,160
made a post about it was I'm not
down with that and I that's OK, 

682
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,720
like if you're not who I'm 
talking to anyway. 

683
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:54,680
But you know, it's not like 
you're not the ultimate arbiter 

684
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,400
of like. 
Well, this is just like a random

685
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,720
citizen who jumped in to tell 
you that he wasn't down with 

686
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:03,720
that. 
No, he's a he's a bull. 

687
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,080
He he's he's in the the 
lifestyle community. 

688
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,680
But he wasn't down with me being
open about being a Bible. 

689
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,360
Oh well, did you recant 
everything you said and 

690
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,200
apologize to the group? 
Hell no. 

691
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:25,520
Hell no. 
Like, I mean hey. 

692
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,400
I'm over here doing me. 
You go over there and you do 

693
00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:28,880
you. 
You. 

694
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,640
Know. 
Like like kind of one, kind of 

695
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,480
one of those deals, like 
specifically when you said that 

696
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,520
like I'm not down with that, 
like OK, nobody asked you. 

697
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,720
That's, that's right. 
You know, I mean because I mean 

698
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,680
to be honest with you like you 
know, as I've gotten to know him

699
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,200
or know of him particularly 
especially like how he treats 

700
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,520
some couples, I ain't down with 
some of the stuff he does, you 

701
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,720
know. 
But that's that's how you roll 

702
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,240
and that's, you know this is how
I roll over here. 

703
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,480
So it's it's it's kind of that's
kind of been one of those 

704
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,400
things. 
But you know, The funny thing is

705
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:20,480
there's a lot of guys yourself, 
Mike, some others who play at a 

706
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,360
high level, great reputation 
within lifestyle, who have been 

707
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:32,440
open accepting but also 
affirming like hey, do you, 

708
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,840
whatever you do, continue to do 
it with integrity? 

709
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,720
Yeah. 
And that that's that's been, 

710
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:44,920
that's been really, really 
affirming to me over this 

711
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,880
journey. 
One of the things is, you know, 

712
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,520
another thing that another place
that I've gotten to is just, you

713
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:57,280
know, is somebody's not going to
accept it or be accepting of it.

714
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:02,160
This isn't. 
I don't share this to seek 

715
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,320
approval or acceptance from 
everybody. 

716
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,760
I share this so people 
understand who I am and those 

717
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:15,520
people who want to deal with me 
understand who I am and 

718
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,760
understand who I am. 
Fully so nice. 

719
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,360
Very. 
Nice. 

720
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:22,560
Yeah. 
Well, I mean, I'm. 

721
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,400
I'm definitely glad to hear that
nobody can come in and tell you 

722
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,640
to that they not cool with it 
and all of a sudden you were 

723
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,880
like, oh fuck it, I changed my 
mind. 

724
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,960
I mean, I respect that. 
Yeah, like, yeah, like you. 

725
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,000
Know then I wouldn't respect. 
You. 

726
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,720
Yeah. 
It's like, oh man, you're not 

727
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:42,200
cool with it. 
I'm sorry. 

728
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,080
Hold on. 
Let let me go over here and call

729
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,160
all this pussy. 
Dad must be dead with me. 

730
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,520
And tell him that I'm not there,
'cause you're not cool with it, 

731
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,520
like. 
Some random dude said this ain't

732
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,600
cool, so now I'm going to change
my whole life. 

733
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,080
Now it's fuck out. 
You're right. 

734
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,880
You know I I definitely think 
that you know if you're going to

735
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:08,280
you you stick by you stick by 
what you believe and yeah if 

736
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,440
it's not affecting anybody else 
like I don't give a fuck what 

737
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,960
you think about what I do right 
and and my my there's there's 

738
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,320
other questions. 
The other question is you know 

739
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:25,400
when you're dealing with what do
you say to to couples what do 

740
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:32,080
you say to couples when they 
encounter bulls who are not 

741
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:39,360
openly bisexual but they they 
you know they they figure out a 

742
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,600
way to pull it out of them or 
they they do. 

743
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,600
I I had a gentleman come to me 
who was pissed off, pissed off 

744
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:52,560
because one of the couples who 
he played with, not realizing 

745
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:56,120
that the lifestyle was a small 
community, spoke to someone else

746
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:01,720
about how they played. 
And that couple came back to him

747
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:09,120
and he was mad. 
Mad like he was warned to fight 

748
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,680
the husband. 
Mad like, bro, calm down. 

749
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,840
Like, calm down. 
You know, it's like, Oh well, 

750
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,280
you know, these couples say they
want you to be discreet and 

751
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:21,520
blah, blah blah blah blah. 
And like, what do you say to 

752
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,320
couples when it comes to doing 
things like that? 

753
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,640
I tell them don't like it. 
Like I I think it would just be 

754
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:38,360
best for them and to avoid any 
drama, you know, to not put 

755
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,960
someone's business out there, 
especially if you know that's 

756
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:45,800
like they're very discreet and 
you know, closeted about it. 

757
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,440
You know, I I can't speak to 
that situation. 

758
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:54,440
I've seen situations like that 
in which the couple was like, 

759
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,440
oh, well, you know, we engage 
with this guy and we know this 

760
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,600
couple is looking for it. 
And so it's kind of like a 

761
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:05,320
recommendation kind of deal. 
I just wouldn't do that unless 

762
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:10,760
you know that Bull is open and 
honest about it or you've had a 

763
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,720
conversation with him and said 
hey, like we've got this couple 

764
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:21,320
who they we've had conversations
with them and they understand 

765
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,400
they they're looking for a 
similar type of play that we 

766
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,320
have. 
And we just want to see if you'd

767
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,600
be OK with us letting them know 
that that's something that 

768
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,360
you're open to and then going 
from there. 

769
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,680
You know just just simple 
consideration that yeah, I 

770
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:45,640
wouldn't I wouldn't just drop 
that with the other couple 

771
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,960
because then you have another 
situation where it's like you 

772
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:53,480
know that other couple. 
I mean you you don't know if 

773
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,040
like you know they they go 
directly to that book. 

774
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,960
Like, hey, so we hear that, you 
know you're cool with this and 

775
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:03,040
so you're willing to play and 
now he's upset or you don't know

776
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:05,360
if they went and told some other
couples and now that's floating 

777
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,480
around And then that couple 
tells another bull or something.

778
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:13,000
And that bull uses that 
maliciously to try to slander 

779
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,080
this guy or you know, bring it 
up or that's a joke or teeth. 

780
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,960
Like yeah, that's that's just a 
bad situation. 

781
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:19,320
So. 
Yeah, yeah. 

782
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,720
And. 
And I know, like, Oh, my wife 

783
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,240
and I have been out to dinner 
with a couple and they're like, 

784
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,800
oh, yeah, you know, this guy 
does this, this guy does that. 

785
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,240
And we're like, hey, don't use 
his name. 

786
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:30,920
Don't use his name. 
Like, what are you doing? 

787
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,320
Like, don't say his name. 
It's a violation. 

788
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,160
You know, we're not gonna repeat
it. 

789
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:41,280
But like, holy shit, you just 
said that out loud, you know, I 

790
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:46,480
mean, and and I know that just 
we tend to be giving, we we get 

791
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,160
a lot of information because 
people know we're discreet. 

792
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:54,240
But I would definitely tell 
couples, you know be careful as 

793
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,160
far as saying names. 
And then the last question I 

794
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:02,480
will ask is this OK? 
And this is something that I I 

795
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,040
just, I learned. 
I learned once we because we 

796
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,480
were just you know hosting doing
so many things in the lifestyle.

797
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,400
So we we got to know so many 
people. 

798
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:18,960
But before that, like if you're 
explaining to guys who say, 

799
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,120
well, if I'm looking at a 
profile and it says the husband 

800
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:28,560
is, you know it, the husband's 
not is bisexual versus not 

801
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,680
bisexual. 
So you choose not to play with 

802
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:39,200
them, but you wind up playing 
with, you know, couples where 

803
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,880
there's husbands who just aren't
openly by openly bisexual. 

804
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:50,320
So in your experience, how do 
you, how do you help guys get 

805
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,560
comfortable with the fact that, 
number one, you never know who's

806
00:58:52,560 --> 00:59:00,600
bisexual and #2 guys who are 
openly bisexual are not 

807
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:02,320
necessarily trying to grab your 
moles? 

808
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,880
That's a good question. 
Nice thought about this, 

809
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,200
especially when talking about 
talking to other bulls about 

810
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,400
the. 
I think the best thing that I 

811
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:27,440
could do is to tell you to be to
work on your communication piece

812
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,440
in the beginning where you're 
like clearly communicating 

813
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,120
boundaries and understanding 
what they want and what you're 

814
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,160
looking for from the beginning 
so you can understand if that's 

815
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,920
a fit. 
And then enforcing those 

816
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,720
boundaries. 
So like, for instance, you go 

817
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,160
into a situation and you're OK 
with this, but you're not OK 

818
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,720
with that. 
And they cross that husband 

819
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,800
crosses the line, You can 
clearly say, hey, that's not 

820
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,840
cool, this crosses the line, 
this this isn't acceptable. 

821
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:06,720
But for a lot of guys that, you 
know, if there's a bi husband, I

822
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,000
think a lot of guys have to get 
into. 

823
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:16,680
The mindset of Because I'm 5 
doesn't mean I want to be with 

824
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,960
you. 
Yeah, that's and it's and it's 

825
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,960
the. 
It's the same for like if you're

826
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:26,480
straight, you know you, you're 
straight. 

827
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,240
You love to fuck women, you love
pussy. 

828
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,640
That doesn't mean you're going 
to fuck every single woman that 

829
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,640
you see, or will want to fuck 
every single woman that you see,

830
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,800
and the attraction works the 
same way. 

831
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:44,520
What I find very interesting 
about the way particularly men 

832
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:54,360
think about bisexual, pansexual 
and gay men is that there's some

833
01:00:54,440 --> 01:01:00,440
that they're unable to control 
their sexual urge. 

834
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,680
And I don't know where that 
comes from. 

835
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:12,640
I don't know socially like where
that where that comes from, 

836
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:16,840
that's, but that seems to be 
ingrained in US programming 

837
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:21,120
wise, especially those of us who
come from particularly 

838
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:29,560
homophobic backgrounds that that
they're they're just going to 

839
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:30,560
pounce on you. 
They can't. 

840
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,440
They can't control themselves 
once they're exposed to your 

841
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:38,920
masculinity or to. 
You know your. 

842
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:48,200
Zombies. 
You whip your Dick out, they 

843
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,920
lose their mind. 
I gotta have it exactly, Yeah. 

844
01:01:54,200 --> 01:02:00,440
And send them to the chair. 
This guy, long time ago on this 

845
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,280
job that I had one of my very 
first jobs and this guy was 

846
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:07,280
about as homophobic as they come
when he, you know, a whole lot 

847
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,880
of other phobias about a whole 
bunch of other people that, you 

848
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,920
know, weren't kids. 
But he was particularly 

849
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:17,280
homophobic. 
And he he would say that like 

850
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,520
there was this, there was this. 
So it was a restaurant and in 

851
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,760
this particular restaurant, it 
had like the cook line. 

852
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,440
You could kind of, you could see
the cooks like cooking. 

853
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,320
And so sometimes I would go up 
there and help him, took him out

854
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,120
like like the assistant they 
had. 

855
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:39,080
And so we're up there. 
And there was this gay guy that 

856
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,920
would come in. 
He's like an interior decorator.

857
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,880
But this place was like a 
steakhouse, had a lot of wealthy

858
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,280
people that came in there, a lot
of older wealthy people. 

859
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,160
But then those guys come in 
there off the past with lots of 

860
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:55,320
clients and it's very, very 
flamboyant floral print jackets 

861
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,000
and everything. 
Every time this guy would come 

862
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:03,360
in, just the friendly, nice guy 
greeted everybody. 

863
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,480
Every time this guy come in, 
this particular guy, the cook 

864
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,600
that I worked with make a big 
show of having to go back to the

865
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,200
back. 
Oh, I can't. 

866
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,720
I can't do this. 
I this is ridiculous. 

867
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,800
He oh man, he's, you know, 
trying to come over here. 

868
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,840
And I'm like, and so one day I 
said to him, I said, I said, 

869
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,800
bro, you live at home with your 
Mama like you don't have, like 

870
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:28,280
taking the litter on women. 
What do you think this guy 

871
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:36,040
wants? 
That's it. 

872
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:37,640
You can't. 
You know. 

873
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:43,320
You know what? 
I was like, you can't even go 

874
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,200
into, like, the Humane Society. 
Oh wow. 

875
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,840
Wow. 
And you think this guy is just 

876
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:55,200
going to come over here, like 
attack you? 

877
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,200
Stop. 
He thought he was irresistible. 

878
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:05,080
He he thought he he thought he 
was irresistible, that somehow 

879
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:12,000
every gay man would want him. 
And I'm like, dude, that's not 

880
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,600
the way this works. 
That's not the way any of this 

881
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,560
works. 
And so, like I, you know, Long 

882
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:23,320
story short, like #1, just 
understand, you know, what these

883
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:28,560
couples are wanting, what 
they're looking for. 

884
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,440
And if that's not you, if that's
not your desire, if that's not 

885
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,840
your interest and you're there 
for the wife, don't be ashamed 

886
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,080
of saying that in a very tactful
way. 

887
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,920
I'm just here for the wife. 
I'm not interested in that. 

888
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,320
So yelling out, so yelling out 
you can't suck my Dick, That's 

889
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:48,000
not. 
Necessary. 

890
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,800
Not yet. 
No, No, that's not don't talk to

891
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:58,240
my butt hole, right? 
Or or, you know, like or like. 

892
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,200
As soon as you get done. 
As soon as you get done with, 

893
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:02,600
you know, fucking the like 
grabbing your clothes and like 

894
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:08,680
cutting yourself. 
You know, like smash the blanket

895
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,200
off the bed and wrap yourself in
it. 

896
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:18,200
I I wouldn't advise that either.
You're making it weird, bro. 

897
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,280
You're making it weird. 
Right. 

898
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:23,400
Because they're looking at you 
like what in the world, you 

899
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,080
know. 
So it's it's one of the 

900
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,240
situations of like, yeah, just 
you know tactically say because 

901
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:33,880
I guarantee you, I guarantee you
that couple has had situations 

902
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:37,320
in which they've been in more 
situations with their straight 

903
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:44,600
bull who wasn't comfortable with
a by cock and they had to or by 

904
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,200
husband and they had to suppress
that. 

905
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,760
Then you've been in situations 
where you've been clearly 

906
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,400
uncomfortable. 
Or or. 

907
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,360
You were in a situation with 
someone who's open and odds 

908
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,320
about who they were, and that 
makes you feel some kind of way.

909
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,480
Yeah, it makes sense. 
That makes sense because I I I 

910
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,440
would, yeah, I guess that makes 
sense because they've have 

911
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:13,680
interacted with way more 
straight bulls and they would 

912
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,520
have interacted with bisexual 
bulls. 

913
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,400
Yep. 
And so if you're if you come to 

914
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,720
them and you say, hey, listen, I
get it, I understand that's your

915
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:24,720
desire. 
That's just not something that I

916
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,000
do or that I'm particularly 
interested in. 

917
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,360
But like if you're wanting a 
situation in which like you 

918
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,560
know, I play with your wife and 
you watch and stuff like that, 

919
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:37,680
hey, I'm cool with that, you 
know, and and you approach it 

920
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:40,720
you know, tactfully, 
respectfully, I guarantee they 

921
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:44,760
will reciprocate guarantees 
because those situations in 

922
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,880
which you find the guy is you 
know, over aggressive or 

923
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,720
something like that, that is a 
very, very, very, very, very 

924
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:56,320
minute small occurrence. 
Yeah, I guess that's that's kind

925
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:00,520
of like that that single guy 
stigma, where every single 

926
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:04,600
single guy is a an animal who 
can't control itself. 

927
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,000
And you know, single dudes, we 
get pissed off, but then you 

928
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:11,720
know we turn right around and do
it to the to the to the husband 

929
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,440
who is bisexual. 
Like, I don't. 

930
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,280
I don't want you to assume that 
'cause I'm a single dude, that 

931
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,840
I'm automatically be an idiot 
when I meet your wife. 

932
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:26,840
But then I automatically, you 
know, now as soon as you get 

933
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,120
around a bisexual dude, you're 
like, I am so fuckable he's not 

934
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:34,680
going to be a container self. 
You know, that's that. 

935
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:36,600
I don't know if that's an ego 
thing. 

936
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:41,920
I don't know if that if that if 
that is something deeper there 

937
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:47,440
about what we think about male 
sexuality and that, you know 

938
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:52,480
somehow that male sexuality is 
it takes more control male 

939
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,040
sexuality than it does, you 
know, female sexuality. 

940
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,240
I don't, I don't know what that 
is like there's something there 

941
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,760
that I haven't really been able 
to put my finger on. 

942
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:09,360
But I can tell you from personal
experience, you know, from 

943
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:13,160
anecdotal experience and just 
from living like these guys 

944
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:16,920
ain't going to jump you. 
Like it's not going to be a 

945
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,920
situation where like this guy's 
going to attempt to rape you and

946
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,640
you're like having a look at the
wife and colour code 911 or 

947
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,240
something like this. 
No, that. 

948
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:27,840
It's not going to be like the 
police reporter. 

949
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:29,840
You got to beat this guy up or 
something like that. 

950
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,080
You know, Like there's no such 
thing as a sexual zombie, and 

951
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,200
they don't exist for gay and 
violent either. 

952
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,040
That makes sense. 
That makes sense. 

953
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,479
I mean and I, you know, I think 
that once again you go back to 

954
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:47,840
the old programming, it's, it's 
programming and everybody has 

955
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,880
some type of programming depend 
upon the year that you were born

956
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,040
in. 
You know, you know, if you were 

957
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,120
born in the 40s and 50s, you 
would have thought that all 

958
01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:00,080
black men were savages with the 
inability to control themselves,

959
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:04,680
you know, And then we Fast 
forward to, you know, our 

960
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,640
programming. 
You know, you being born in the,

961
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:13,880
you know, 70s and 80s, you know,
you think that all gay men or. 

962
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:18,760
But you think that all gay men, 
bisexual men, pansexual men, you

963
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:23,359
know, are looking at every dude,
you know, like the creeper in 

964
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:25,800
the movie theater with his hand 
under his pants, beating his 

965
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,760
Dick, staring them in the eyes, 
you know. 

966
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,840
So yeah, that that makes sense. 
And and once again I'll tell 

967
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:37,960
you, it was my wife who fixed my
who fixed me on that like it was

968
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:43,120
her. 
And I will say, I know I would 

969
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,960
have never agreed with it when 
we first met because I was you 

970
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,399
know, I know I was homophobic 
when I met my wife. 

971
01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:51,800
I never thought I was. 
I've been the lifestyle for 

972
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:57,240
years and I had no problem at 
all. 

973
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:02,040
Like I've never been mean to a 
person who had different sexual 

974
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:06,920
preferences. 
I I've always was always 

975
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:11,640
respectful. 
But then I realized that it was 

976
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:18,960
just when you don't see, you 
don't see a group of people like

977
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:23,600
you don't see them like people 
like you don't see them as 

978
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:28,160
people, you see them as a group.
And I realized, like that to me 

979
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:33,680
is like, I never in your mind, 
you grew up and you're like, you

980
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,280
know, I don't understand how 
people can be racist. 

981
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:39,280
I don't understand how people 
can be sexist. 

982
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:42,200
And that's because, you know, I 
I wasn't racist and I wasn't 

983
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,400
sexist. 
But then all of a sudden, you 

984
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:46,520
know, it's like, whoa, this guy 
sucks Dick. 

985
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,840
Wait a minute. 
You know it's like and then my 

986
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:55,280
wife is like you do realize. 
You do realize like basically 

987
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,320
you're you're you kind of treat 
them like you people and I'm 

988
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,480
like, oh shit, holy shit, I'm a 
fucking bigot. 

989
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:05,000
You know what I'm saying? 
Like and then you know that's 

990
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,600
where everything changes. 
She's like, you know, don't 

991
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,240
worry honey. 
I'll fix you and then you know, 

992
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:12,920
she, you know, and I mind you 
this was years ago. 

993
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:20,200
But you know you you behave that
way and and you got to think, 

994
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:25,760
like, think of the close 
proximity that I, as an 

995
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:30,400
experienced bull, has played 
with couples for all the years 

996
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:35,840
before I met my wife. 
Like I should have been the 

997
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:42,920
least, like the least, you know,
bit homophobic because when you 

998
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:47,680
were playing with cucks and 
cuckold couples, even if you're 

999
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,320
not getting fluffed, you're in 
fucking close proximity. 

1000
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:55,120
You know, you're listen, you're 
sitting there, you know, you 

1001
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:56,720
fuck the wife. 
You're over there eating your 

1002
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,480
bag of Cheetos and drinking your
Gatorade while he's cleaning her

1003
01:11:59,480 --> 01:12:00,880
up. 
And you're talking about sports 

1004
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,400
like it's it's that don't freak 
you out, but all of a sudden, 

1005
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:07,760
you know, it's like, whoa, whoa,
those people like, so yeah, so I

1006
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:13,640
can definitely see how the 
conditioning, you know, fucks us

1007
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:17,640
up. 
Sorry about that. 

1008
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,080
No. 
You're good. 

1009
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,160
So, you know, before we wrap 
this thing up, give me some 

1010
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:31,440
words of wisdom before we we 
wrap this one up. 

1011
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:36,040
This is it's good shit. 
Yeah. 

1012
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:42,120
I mean it's so I I think the the
best way I can describe it is 

1013
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:46,280
something that's kind of 
becoming a signature catch 

1014
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,960
phrase for me talking to someone
else. 

1015
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:54,280
But I I was like yeah you need 
to keep saying that. 

1016
01:12:54,560 --> 01:13:00,840
But my philosophy is just kind 
of distilled into they want to 

1017
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:07,080
Dick, don't be a Dick. 
And I just, you know, act with 

1018
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,640
integrity to treat people how 
you want to be treated and you 

1019
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:17,200
know, get over, get over your 
your, your petty decisions and 

1020
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:21,240
and preconceived notions and 
treat people like human beings. 

1021
01:13:21,480 --> 01:13:25,840
And I guarantee, I guarantee you
can have some positive 

1022
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:30,200
experiences, even if you don't 
end up playing with some, even 

1023
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,000
if that's not your thing and 
that's not your kind of play, 

1024
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:34,120
they're going to be some quality
people who are going to respect 

1025
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,840
your boundaries, they'll 
probably give you some really 

1026
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:41,360
incredible experiences. 
So yeah, just they want the 

1027
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:42,640
Dick. 
They don't want you to be a 

1028
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,160
Dick. 
I think that works for 

1029
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:49,400
everybody. 
I think that's pretty universal.

1030
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:56,480
Well Drew it has been amazing 
yet again. 

1031
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:03,360
I appreciate you coming on man. 
I appreciate your insight your 

1032
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:09,600
experience and your open 
mindedness and man we this is 

1033
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:12,320
the third one man. 
I you know we we still got we 

1034
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:17,600
still got more to do in the 
series everybody but man this 

1035
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,480
has been a great this is I think
this has probably been one of 

1036
01:14:20,480 --> 01:14:27,760
the the most the most let me see
the the the most daring podcast 

1037
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,440
that I think I've done. 
You know, I'm really looking 

1038
01:14:30,440 --> 01:14:36,560
forward to the to the way the 
the male population responds to 

1039
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:39,000
this podcast. 
Yeah, me too. 

1040
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,680
Me too. 
So. 

1041
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,520
Really like to hear, hear the 
thoughts, good and bad. 

1042
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:48,840
I I mean, I I really don't. 
The good I definitely want to 

1043
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:50,320
hear the bad. 
I'm kind of interested, you 

1044
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:53,080
know. 
And I mean either way, love to 

1045
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:56,480
hear, you know, people's 
feedback and opinions that don't

1046
01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:58,240
be shy. 
Don't be shy at all. 

1047
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:00,520
Yeah, yeah. 
But be nice. 

1048
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:01,520
Yeah. 
Be nice. 

1049
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,520
Of course. 
Because, you know, I don't mind 

1050
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:11,600
seeing what's on my mind. 
I am not. 

1051
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:13,920
I have no problem with the 
confrontation. 

1052
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,160
So, you know, don't ask for it 
and I won't deliver it. 

1053
01:15:20,480 --> 01:15:22,200
Right. 
Well, listen, until next time, 

1054
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,840
everybody, Thank you for joining
old faces. 

1055
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,200
I'm Mr. Mocha on with Drew 
Marston.