Yo-yo yo what up, what up? Good morning, good morning GMG.
Oh my Lord, look at this market baby, you'd love to see it.
Tuesday I thought Yesterday, Tuesday, Tuesday October 8th
2024444 Look at that another beautiful day to have a
beautiful day. I got my Co host in the house,
Tyler Mando. How you guys doing today?
Good morning. I'm doing great man, how are
you? Good day to be a mean coin dev.
Fine, it is a good to be a mean coin dev for you, huh?
You had you had 76% in the last 24 hours.
Mando, you this, this man's having a good day.
Oh my love. Yeah, definitely, people.
Like the gaming narrative, it seems.
Hey, gaming NFTS, gaming meme coins.
Anyways, Tyler, how you doing? Oh, we got the Maraudery RT.
There he is. You know he's let's go.
Oh, there you go. I was getting worried here.
I didn't get any answers by Maraud this morning.
I was like, oh man. But you know what?
He is a man of his words and you know definitely is and we've
seen that on where there's meme coins.
We'll talk about that later on the show.
Tyler. I mean Tyler, this is your
Olympics today must be fucking. I mean you are a Murad stand you
like you are like what Taylor Swift is to like teenage girls
feel like this is your moment with Murad right now.
Like it how you doing? It's big, big morning.
Yeah. I'm excited to talk to to King
Murad here. He's a little nervous when we
don't know. He may not have read the
messages, but. I, I, I, I went from Trump Cuban
to Murad. I mean, we are we.
The boys in the churches think this is the biggest 1 yet.
The boys yeah the the red guy discord and seemingly your
trenches Tyler were saying the same things you know that both
of them were talking about how this is a this is a level up
from that but anyways, we'll get to that in a little bit Let me
pin the Twitter spaces to the top.
We're posting also the video stream.
So for those of you who are new to the show, because you
probably came because of Maraud, we broadcast four more hour
Monday to Friday, 10:00 AM Eastern Time on audio and video.
And Maraud is joining us in the studio directly.
It's already on Mando's account. You can find it there.
I'm about to post it myself, Tyler too.
But we put we, we stream the video broadcast to the masses
everywhere because we fucking love to see that.
So let me get Mando up here and let's get this part set up.
Anyways, so the show today, today as usual, we'll go through
market reports, this different show.
So we'll do market report quickly with Mando and then
we're going to go towards Tyler's top 100.
So Tyler will run us through his through his his topics of the
day. And then I mean, given that
Maraud is here, we're just going to go right into a Maraud
interview. So in about not even 10 minutes
from now, we're probably just going to get right into a Maraud
interview and then we'll go with him.
Yeah, no one. No one wants to listen to us at
this stage, Yeah. No one wants to listen to us.
We'll just do market, Tyler. Just want to see if I can
convince Maraud to buy Epic. That's basically what this.
You you have one job. It's a primary objective mando.
You have one job today and it is to to to show Murat so.
Born for these sort of days, man.
You're born for these sort of days.
Actually, I'm adding Murat to the stage right now.
Yo, Murat, just so you know, I know you just joined us on
stage. I sent you a, I sent you the
stream yard links and everything, but you got time.
We're going through some market stuff and then get going at the
end of the show. If you hang tight, we'll get the
robit load box spins. And I stacked it with miladies.
I went on this morning. I accidentally deleted the old
loot box boys. I'm sorry, the one where we give
away on nearly $1,000,000. And then I added about like 30
miladies in there. So there's a chance that you win
a milady for being on the show today.
But anyways, anyways, I see Murat in the store right now.
Mando, I'm going to run to you real quick for market, then
we'll get to that. Can you dig it?
Yeah, GM everyone. So we had a little bit of a sell
off actually kind of in the morning time. 2 main things
around that. Firstly was the China stimulus.
It's slightly disappointed by slightly, I mean it's it
disappointed a lot. There was there was meant to be
another round of stimulus that was going to come out on the
fiscal side this morning that came in probably around 10% or
5% of what people thought it was going to be.
That being said, China has the knack of like just announcing a
new stimulus measure every single week.
So I would be unsurprised if this is going to be a staggered
stimulus measure that you're going to see more and more of.
China has no way out of its problems right now apart from
QE, so and potentially some fiscal stuff as well.
But I think QE is the main 1. So this is not the end of China
QE. This is just China stocks,
stocks being up 25 to 50% and one slight piece of bad news
took them back from being overbought.
So that that took us a little bit lower and macro you've also
seen a bit more strength again in the dollar which has and in
bond yields, which has meant that some of these assets like
gold Bitcoin have repriced a little bit lower.
And then you had the second bit of information was was some
reports it was late last night that Iran had been attacked at
least in the town which is close to its nuclear facility.
That ended up not really being confirmed and kind of bounced
back. But that did kind of tell you
that we do see small headlines around that.
We probably are going to have a bit of a dip.
That being said, Bitcoin still around 63 K, which is where we
did the show yesterday. I think it hit as low as 61 ish
61 1/2 yesterday and then bounced back up.
I think obviously the the the main point of resistance is that
64 to 65 K area, particularly 65 5K, which we've run up a few
times. That was what we managed to
breach last time with a high high.
Let's see if we can hit a high high again over the coming days.
66 K would be like the real, right.
We're in a different trend here, which I think people get bullish
around in terms of stuff that's like outperformed Bitcoin
dominance again has been pretty strong.
So it's been select meme coins which have done well.
Sui has probably been the most obvious one.
Again, continues to be very, very strong in the meme point,
in the meme point streets. And then you've got like a a
range of different meme altcoins.
You've got Phantom has done pretty well.
Tao has done has done relatively well.
So some of those sort of meme coins, interestingly, I mean,
Ethan is doing terribly still, but Solana as kind of just
stable against Bitcoin to this whole time.
So at the majors at the moment, it feels like Slon and Bitcoin
are kind of evens and then ETH is is is continuing to not do as
well. Meme coins, to be honest, were a
bit of a bright spot, particularly some of the low ups
and mid cap ones. The the majors, you would call
them, they dipped. So Pepe obviously dipped back.
So that was kind of a low high with was a little bit stronger
on that rebound. So some, I mean, coins were a
little bit stronger, which maybe makes sense given sales been a
little bit stronger than than than ETH.
But then MOG obviously has been doing relatively well as well.
So I would say that it's it's the chasing pack that continues
to be strong because people are people are again aiming for a
billion dollars with a lot of these, right.
You go to any sort of meme coin, which is 100 million plus at the
moment, it's like, right, we're going to a billion, we're going
to a billion, we're going to a billion.
And I think that's people see that as a bit more achievable
than some of the the whiff bonk Pepe's hit time eyes again.
So those are the ones that seem to be strongest.
Yeah, love to see that. Definitely saw this this
morning. Look, we we had a little quick
pop man, though, right as we were starting the show, like 60
threes, 62363 three. I forget what, and then I guess
we'll see. And then we are obviously before
the show the the wells notice that Mister Gensler sent.
Who cares who? Saw us who get some wells notice
these days. He's.
Gone after every single. It's not every single exchange.
Every single exchange kind of Yeah exactly.
Kraken Coinbase Kucoin, Binance crypto com.
Maybe more, but anyways, these these exchanges have a lot of
money, a lot of resources, a lot of lawyers.
So it's gonna it's it's just gonna drag and drag and drag and
it's it's a joke at this dish. We had that news and we had some
other news. So quickly, Tyler, I'm going to
go to you for your for your recap and then we're going to go
right into Murad, who's with us in the studio.
All right, yeah, breaking right before the show, Gary Gensler
and the SEC have served a wells notice for crypto.com.
Other top stories from the day FTX and FTX judge approved those
cash repayments plan, $7 billion I believe to be returned to
creditors, most getting about 114% of the value of their
portfolios, though in cash, not in kind.
Crypto. the US Supreme Court. the US Supreme Court denied
hearing for a case concerning the ownership of the Silk Road
Bitcoin. That's 69,000 Bitcoin worth
about $4.4 billion potentially opening up for the US to sell
it. So that's something to watch.
BlackRock claimed that crypto is being adopted faster than the
Internet and mobile phones from a pacing perspective, so that
was a catchy headline. We saw it a new Ethereum upgrade
proposal EIP 7781 would boost throughput by 50%, So that's a
big one in polymarket action. Who is Satoshi that That bet saw
wild action yesterday with other multiple now the resounding
favorite. 65% over $16,000,000 bet.
Now who's the. Favorite now?
Zabo. Zabo from an individual, but
still there's only 15%. No, what I see on the show on
Friday, the other was 20%. I told you I was going to be
other multiple. We're looking at 63 1/2 percent
because that's the fucking bottom of the thing.
No one's seeing this. Everybody's being told that it's
Sassman, which is not right. And this.
Was like it's out of back when I when I looked into this for a
while I thought it was out and back.
Yeah, you got a nice little 10X in front of.
You I think I think it's a group, though, and The thing is
the other and multiple bet was really clearly about like it
being more than one person, right.
So I think you know, you can't deny.
I mean you can't I can't I what the fuck do I know the half
Finney is potentially not involved in this right.
So it's like I don't know, there's I don't know.
We'll we'll see. But what else, Tyler?
I just yeah. In protocol news abstract
announced the partnership with Layer Zero to become their
primary cross chain messaging protocol.
Phantom is rolling out beta support for base Mentify
unveiled vision for their digital asset ecosystem and then
in memes and NFTS. So Vanek, their head of digital
assets shared their meme coin index.
I actually forgot they had a meme coin index product that
holds 11% with Sheba's number one in that portfolio. 33% DOGE,
27% Pepe. I thought that was notable ahead
of our meme coin discussion here today.
Meme coin majors were red, but Nero flipped MOG.
Now over $700 million SPX from Rod's list.
Wait, hold on. Repeat that.
Nero. Nero.
Flipped MOG. Hero flipped.
Yeah, we're going to keep that talk with with, I mean, we, we
got literally like meme coin. Jesus, come around. 740 million.
Yeah. So Nero.
Is questions after. Nero's going to a billion that
that's that much clear SPX from our Maraud list.
It wasn't Noble Mover flipped gig up into the mid 400 million
range. The EF Mudang also jumped
another 90%. Then of course, Epic Duck, the
number one gaming meme coin, 70% leading all gaming meme coins.
One NFT headline, obviously for a kid, one of my favorite
artists. He announced his newest
collection, Piano Blossoms 6101. I think I'm going to ask coin
market cap to have its own section.
Just gaming meme coins just. Fucking kidding me.
All right, well, listen, listen, that's that's a great that's a
great roundup, Tyler. Look, we usually on the show,
for those of you who are not familiar, we dive into these,
these these topics for the next like 30-40 minutes.
But we're not going to do that today.
We're not going to bore you all with that because you're
definitely not here to listen to my ass speak.
You're here to listen to the icon.
Main character of the moment must stop Murad.
Well, guess what? He, he, he cannot be stopped at
the moment. Let me bring him on stage.
Murad, what's up, man? Good morning.
How you doing? Hey guys, How's it going?
Can you hear me? See me well.
Hear you well, see you perfectly.
I love it. I have to say, from long hair to
long hair, man, I love the flow. So I mean, mine's tied up right
now, but I've got to say I love your flow.
Murad, how you doing today? Awesome, awesome.
Appreciate it guys and thank you for having me doing well.
Yeah, thank you for for making it, especially on short notice.
We're we're joking about on the show yesterday, like yo, let's
get him out on the show today because Tyler here, our Co host
loves your list and obviously goes over it every day.
Even made a special index for him all and everything.
So we're we're deep right now into the into The Mirage
trenches on FOMO hours. So definitely want to have a few
things ready questions ready to to talk to you bubble mirage
first. Like, honestly, I think even for
myself, Percy would love to know more about, you know, your
background, you know, how'd you got here and of course, how it
feels to be the main character right now.
But mostly, like, how'd you get here?
Like, how did who? Who is Murat?
Yeah, for sure. So I'm originally from
Azerbaijan, went to study at university in the United States.
While I was there, I did a year abroad in China and that was
kind of late 2013, early 2014 during the famous 2013 Bitcoin
bubble, sort of four years before the 2017 bubble.
Was very lucky. I had a few foreigner friends
that were like involved in the early BTC ecosystem.
So that was kind of my first exposure.
Was kind of lucky to be at the right place at the right time.
When 20/16/2017 came rolling back, I was obviously already
looking at Ethereum BTC and realized that I needed to sort
of take crypto more seriously. Before that I worked in
commodities trading and in Chad Phi and since 2017 been doing a
bunch of different things in crypto writing on chain
analysis, obviously like trading investments, been building in D
Phi had a fund in 2019-2020. Unfortunately, it didn't go so
well, but we are, we're back and continuing sort of continue to
grind, continuing to hustle. And yeah, right now I am
building a Defy trading protocol, social fight trading
protocol called STFX. And of course, I'm also involved
in a bunch of different meme coin things, sort of investing,
trading, and just trying to analyze meme coins like both on
chain and and from a qualitative perspective as well.
Wow, OK, that is an extensive bag.
Did you guys expect that Mando Tyler?
I mean, that is a sick background.
Love to see. I'm going to I'm going to give
it to Tyler here in a second because he's got a bunch of
questions on your thesis and we're going to dive right into
it. But Marat, how does it feel to
be main character right now? You're that that token 2049
interview made waves. So how, how does everything feel
for you right now? Yeah, quite a quite a big influx
of followers and attention overall, but I'm doing my best
to kind of take it with grace and humility and sort of trying
to sort of manage, manage expectations and just trying to
take it day by day. The thing is, I think that we
still have like 8 to 14 months of this sort of meme coin mania
still ahead of us. And because of that, like we
need to all, like I tell all my friends that are also involved
in meme coins, I tell them that we need to kind of like try to
be as stoic as possible and try to be as like patient as
possible and just like not celebrate or not, not kind of
run ahead of ourselves before like 2026 even.
So I think like I've been telling people, I think 2025 is
going to be a big year of opportunities of all kinds in
crypto, especially meme coins, and we need to sort of lock in
and we need to kind of make the most of it.
Agreed totally. Yeah, good, good advice for me.
I'm wondering who could be more stoic.
For sure. I'm a bit I need a little bit
more hype man high energy. So I appreciate that balance,
Barod. Well, I want to just dive right
in. So your, your core thesis, you
shared it, you know, in the presentation at Token 2049.
How'd you come up with that? How, how long had you been
working on that? Kind of where did that come
from? Yeah.
So other than crypto itself, like the world, the world
outside of crypto is changing, right.
And I don't want to sort of rehash all of the bullet points
I've made in my presentation, but just super briefly,
obviously, like inflationary pressures are continuing, like
the global money supply is increasing.
People that have been familiar with like Bitcoin Maximus
literature all the way from 20/15/2016, they know that like
that has an effect on like people's mental health, that has
an effect on financial markets, on the nature of assets, on the
way they're being traded and on the way.
Like people feel like literally at a chemical level, like at
emotional level, right? And I think all of that kind of
like affects like the crypto markets themselves
microeconomically, that's why the core altcoin narratives and
the core altcoin themes, like every four years, they're kind
of becoming crazier and crazier. So the fact that meme coins are
dominating right now, it's no surprise because you've already
kind of been seeing this trend since 2014 or 2013, 2014, 2015,
when meme coins or, sorry, when alt coins first came about, it
was all about like, oh, we're going to use blockchain for
this. We're going to use like
decentralization for that. It's been almost 10 years of
this and I think people are starting to accept the sort of,
I don't want to say bitter truth, but the reality is that
the reality is such that blockchain tech actually has
fewer use cases than like people are telling you, you know, but
the few use cases that we have confirmed for sure are obviously
like store of value, which is like what BTC is best at.
You have like payments, which is essentially a combination of
like stable coins and the payment rails.
And then you have all different kinds of speculation, right?
All different kinds. And both on the app side as well
as the asset side, you can kind of view them in the same thing.
You can even view the tokens themselves as sort of casinos,
or rather cables at the casinos, right?
And the reality what meme coins are doing right now is they're
showing a dark truth to people that all of the alt coins that
have ever existed have been meme coins all along.
They just had this sort of like Silicon Valley vibe or Silicon
Valley branding. Oh, like we, we hired all those
distributed systems engineers where we have this GitHub, we
have that GitHub. But at the end of the day, no,
the retail that actually creates the parabolas and the price
appreciation, they don't care about technology.
They care about making money and having fun.
And that's kind of like the crux of it.
The crux of it is that it was all essentially just performance
art and it was just a, a bunch of sort of manipulations and
marketing to sell pretty much bullshit tokens to people at
like $50 billion valuations, right?
And so mean coins are essentially a revenge.
They're they're a populist revenge of the trenches because
in 2017, poor people could get rich by buying the IC OS, right?
Because at least back then the IC OS like started trading at
like low valuations. So at least you could build
community in a gradual manner and in a way where like middle
class becomes upper middle class or like poor people become rich,
etcetera, right? And it was all organic because
even like chain link and even the Binance token, like they all
started trading at like 20 million, like 15,000,000,
whatever. It was like it was like
affordable prices right now. Because essentially, for lack of
a better word, like VCs have privatized all of the gains in
the space. Like in the private rounds,
whenever something is liquid, it starts at like $15 billion.
Obviously, like you're not going to build community with that.
And so people realize that if it's not about the software.
Then it's the token itself that's like the core value
proposition and the community around it.
And then I, I'm pretty sure it's like young people in their 20s,
in their early 30s, they've realized that we don't actually
need to buy the VC tokens, right?
It, it's actually not, they actually don't have a monopoly
on the, on, on token creation, right.
And the mean coin wave is essentially it's a giant
pushback. It actually starts as a revenge
against VCs. But I my kind of.
Oh, Oh no, he froze. Right.
Those are your froze, yeah. Yeah, he was going off too.
Hold on. He'll be back.
Oh, there you go. Sorry.
You froze for like one minute less.
You were talking about a revision.
Go ahead, man. We're.
Broadly like agree with that, like we, I think most people in
crypto, I mean, when I came in 2021, you go on to most people
in crypto, they're talking about buying altcoins, like 100 X
altcoins and they didn't realize the tokenomics just meant that
like you were fighting against like some crazy tide.
So, so I think we're all in agreement that like meme coins
could be meme coin dominance is going higher, right?
It feels as though meme coins as a potentially of crypto, like
you said, it's just payments. It's kind of the Bitcoin
maximalist gold argument. And then you've got to
speculation and meme coins as Internet culture, a big part of
that. How did you get to the fun
stuff? So how did you actually get to
choose some of these these memes?
Like, right, you decide the meme coins are your are your are your
thing. How did you how did you do the
next next stage of this? Yeah.
So it immediately became clear to me that Pump fun and
platforms like it would eventually result in a situation
where you're going to have pretty much like billions of
meme coins. So in the back of my mind, I
realized that you kind of need to run the following thought
exercise, right? And this is just for kind of
like example purposes. Let's imagine that there is
going to be a meme coin representing absolutely
everything, like every color, every country, every meme, every
animal, every picture, like quadrillions of meme coins,
right? And then on the other end,
that's like on the supply side, let's say on the demand side,
you, we have a situation where we gave every person in the
world like $2000 and they have to like invest in like two or
three unicorns, right? And then putting those two
things together, you ask yourself, you kind of simulate
it in your mind, like what are the things that are going to win
in that environment? And then you understand that,
OK, let's say 70% of people are probably just going to gamble it
away. And you're kind of seeing that
on in the PvP trenches, on Pom pond, etcetera.
So what are what's like the 30% that are going to survive and
they're going to be sustainable And ultimately it all it all
boils down to the community and it all boils down to the people
involved. In my opinion.
You really want like you essentially want something that
is like so passionate to the point of being a cult, to the
point of being a movement even, dare I say to the point of being
like a mini modern religion. And these things like, because
they infuse like people's hearts, they like they, they
become people's identities, right?
People become so ridiculously passionate.
At the end of the day, it's all about emotional resonation and
it's all about inspiration. So in order to identify the
future giant meme coin winners, you need to ask yourself which
meme coins inspire people more, right?
So the ones that inspire more are going to go to a higher
market cap in 2025. That's the way I see it.
And so then we can kind of dig deeper into like the
quantitative stuff, like how do you measure inspiration?
How do you measure emotion? And I guess like we can talk
about that as well. Yeah, I agree with you.
Like I actually created a mean point and it turns into a
religion pretty quickly. These things can go pretty wild.
But I like I actually want to bring it back to your list
because. Pull it up right now.
Hold on. I got it.
I. Remember when I first saw this
list, I was actually a little bit confused by it because you
kind of went for like lowest number of holders, which is like
traditionally what like other meme boys wouldn't have got.
And this obviously is a wild that valuation long term list.
So when you see it obviously provokes a reaction, but it did
feel as though you kind of cracked something which fewer
people were looking at like which was just kind of that
religion aspect. Like those people that are are
diamond hands, they're going to keep it for as long as possible.
And particularly ones which are maybe even slightly older.
Like I looked through this list and most of them weren't
actually that recently. Like they were done kind of last
year or they've been building a community for like 6 months plus
and then now they look like they were going to come out of it.
Yeah, maybe we want to speak about that a little.
Bit yeah, for sure, I have a strong bias against sort of
bitcoins which are from like 2023 or even early 2024.
I think age is super important. Just give me a second.
I'm going to mute my alarm one second.
Yeah, no problem. Do we have elevator music?
I had it at some point. Yeah, so this is the situation.
Cult building takes at least 7 to 8 months.
That's why the 2023 meme coins are going to be the biggest
because you needed to have that time for sellers to sell and for
supply to be concentrated in the hands of the people that like
believe in ridiculously high market caps.
And that's what you've seen with MOG in 2023.
I believe that's what you're seeing right now with the, with
Harry Potter, Obama sliding, you know, as it's ranging.
That's what you've seen with SPX for the past year.
And that's what you've seen with Giga for the first sort of four
to five months of 2024 as well. So in order to build a cult, it
takes time. It takes time for the idea to
resonate and to percolate across society.
It takes time for the supply to be sort of concentrated in the
hands of true believers rather than the people that are going
to sell for A34X. And when you have supply in the
hands of true believers, you essentially have a situation
where the supply is like pretty much solved and then you have
only the demand sold for. So whenever there is buying
coming in, it's just going to go parabolic because like the
believers are not going to touch their coins until like $100
billion targets, right? And whether you believe in those
targets or not, it doesn't matter.
What matters is like what the holders believe because it's
them making the decision, right? And so you like when people talk
about belief, it boils down to like the belief in the, in the
final valuation, the belief in your friends, belief in the
mission and belief in the sort of like the memetic movement.
And these are the kind of things that you need to study.
It makes sense. So is the list?
Is the list static or or dynamic?
Are you planning to to add and and take some of these off
perhaps? I know a lot of people.
There we go, Mando. You care about that because I
think whether you you this was your intention or not, I think
people have started to like index this list like this is the
Murad list at this point. So I.
Think yeah, yeah, that's a that's a good question.
I think I have a lot of responsibility right now.
I I don't want to be a person that just shows random tickers.
I don't know if you guys know, like it took me like six to
seven months being sort of quote, UN quote in the trenches,
being using like tiny Twitter and Telegram accounts to like
sit down in these discords and these telegrams and to kind of
like figure out the vibe, figure out the culture, figure out,
figure out the people. And so I'm like, all of my picks
are like very high conviction. I don't know if I'm going to be
changing anything. But for the time being, all I
can say is I'm very confident about this list.
And one thing that I've realized and that has been paying massive
dividends is this is not a traders market.
This is a believers market, right?
Believers are investors on steroids and essentially
metaphorically speaking, of course.
And believers, they realize that we're first of all, like, forget
about TA, forget about range training, forget about timing,
forget about rotations, all of those things are those things.
They, they're not going to take you far, especially if you
believe that this cycle, if it's going to be anything even
remotely similar to past three cycles, where probably in that
case, we're probably entering into year 4.
And in year 4, that's the situation where like delusional
bull schizos, they outperform everybody, even the most, even
the most sophisticated quant trader in the world is not going
to compare to a diamond handed holder, right.
And so I strongly believe you should be finding cults that a,
you personally resonate with a lot.
And realistically millions of people around the world are
going to be resonating with as well.
And that's kind of the winning formula.
And you should be, you should buy and you should hold because
I think again, like I said earlier, there's 8 to 12 months
left of this, maybe a bit more. And I think the best like the
top ten, top 15 mean coins are going to go like crazy
parabolic. My logic is essentially I'm just
trying to identify category leaders, right?
So there's probably going to be like different, there already
are like different categories of mean coins and can you go?
Into that a little bit because I think that's, that's an
interesting point. There's something again, I think
you picked up on. It's something that even I've
tried to look at for for Epic. It's just that you've kind of
gone after niches. Exactly, exactly.
So obviously you have your dogs, which I would argue with is kind
of the leader at right now. You have your you have your
cats, which I think Popcat is the leader.
You have your quote UN quote culture, which where I would say
like Mog is the leader. You have SPX, which are referred
to as like a movement point, which is a completely new
category. We can dig into that later.
You have Giga as well, which is like a mixture of lifestyle and
culture and masculinity. And then you have a bunch of
other kind of smaller categories as well.
And my vision was like the category leaders, They're
always, they're almost always going to be better risk reward
because whenever like large, big whales come in, whenever like
large even I think first of all, I think even Trapfy is going to
be involved in this, right? Whenever they come in, they'll
always go for the leader. And so holding the leaders in
each category is much better. The people chasing like betas,
the people chasing smaller versions of leaders, they're
always going to lose because it's always going to end up
being PvP. The following is, I think this
is the most important concept in meme coins, something called
critical mass, right? We can debate what critical mass
is, but for the sake of the example, let's say critical mass
is $2 billion. Let's say $2 billion is the
critical mass. And simplistically, this is an
important concept, right? If your coin goes to 2 billion,
then it will probably go to like 10.
It will probably go to like 12:15, right?
Or at least it has a very high chance of doing so.
But if your coin doesn't go to 2 billion, then it will probably
just like die like bleed down, right?
So really you're even though even though there are millions
of meme coins, it doesn't matter because ultimately you should
only be looking at like Top 40, top 50 of them.
That's kind of the way I see it. Yeah, because I think that's an
important point. Like if you go, I think
originally with meme coins, it was find a find a cult, believe
in something, right. But I think the what you've
really done is gone. They've got to be a certain age
really to normally to, to, to like have that maturity of
people making money. Like Mudang, for example, goes
up 300 million. But it's probably going to take
a long time for it to like change hands and get into the
right hands. Even if it survives, right?
You've got to find that sort of religious cult song aspect to
it. So like people that inspire.
And then I think you've got to find these niches.
I think the niches is the thing that's interested me because
that's what altcoins used to be, right?
Like used to have your your different categories of
altcoins. I feel like meme coins are just
replicating that now, but they're kind of going to do it
in a better way. Like why would you want to buy a
gaming coin? Why would you want to buy a Defy
coin? Why would you want to buy a one
of these various different other altcoin categories when you're
just going to get VC dump dumping on you for for like
many, many months, even years sometimes.
Whereas I feel like some of these are just going to overtake
that and maybe even be stronger than like the biggest ones out
there. Absolutely.
And you know, this narrative of the rotation, the giant rotation
from tech to memes, I think it's still in its early stages.
I think it's going to keep happening for the entirety of
the next year. I think the anti VC sentiment
has not peaked yet. I think it's going to keep
getting worse for those guys and their coins.
And you need to also understand that there's over $150 billion
of unlocks coming for like altcoin tokens and Safts over
the next four years, which means that like, it's just, it's just,
it's essentially inflation. They're going to be, they're
going to be receiving these coins and they're going to be
realizing their profits. These VC guys, they are not the
true believers that you're looking for.
And instead, a community, like a meme coin community with truly
fanatical believers, their price action is going to obliterate
all of the technological stuff. And ultimately, financial
markets boil down to human behavior and they boil down to
human belief. And if you are in the trenches,
if you are in all of these group chats for both the VC tech coins
and the mean coins, you will see that the mean coin people are
1000 times more passionate. And ultimately is the passion
that you're betting on. It's the passion that you're
trying to find. And wherever you find a passion,
that's where you're going to find the millions and in this
case billions of inflows. Yeah, dude, that's something I
wanted to drill into a little bit broke, if you don't mind.
Drill, baby drill. I was curious how you like
tested and validated your thesis.
So you said you basically had, you know, handles, like smaller
handles that you would go into Telegram, Discord, telegrams.
And pick up on. That get into these chats.
I'm curious like did did you did you have coins that you thought
were going to be perhaps on your list that didn't make it once
you were like in the in the trenches and talking to them?
Like what were there any surprises during that like
testing and validation process? I'm curious.
Yeah. So I essentially, I essentially
made a list of filters and then I kind of like went down the
filter and that filter let me sort of make a list of like 20
to 25 things that I quote UN quote consider as cults.
So what is this filter? First of all, very simple.
I didn't want to buy like the biggest meme coins because I
think like they're already on, like a lot of them are already
on Binance. They already had like the big
catalysts. And I also didn't want to
participate in the pump fun trenches, right?
And it became increasingly clear to me that ultimately what
matters is like attention to price or religiosity to price or
this passion to price, right? And I said this like I think I
tweeted this in April or May and I'm still saying it to this day.
I think the biggest value right now, it's in midcap cults,
right? So you don't want the pump pump
trenches like the extreme hyper gambling and you don't probably
don't want like those shit. So what range?
What market? Yeah.
So for me, for me, and I'm putting myself back into June
right now, right? For me, I focused on the range
of 5 million to 200 million. Like I think like that's a good
range and that's like what I loosely consider the midcaps.
That's one thing. Second thing is I much prefer
Solana and Etherium to any other chain.
So yes, I know there's like stuff going on on base Taan SU,
we say whatever. But ultimately an important
first impulse of these valuations, it's going to come
from altcoin whales. And you need to ask yourself,
like, where do the altcoin whales park their wealth?
And right now it's Etherium and Solana, right?
And they have their soul and E tokens there and it represents
$70 billion and $300 billion of wealth, respectively.
And there's also a ton of stable coins there as well.
So essentially, these are these are like large bank accounts.
And whenever they finally understand that the mean coins
are going to dominate alt coins this cycle and next year, that
that flow can happen quickly. And that's the kind of the flow
that's going to take us to like 1 billion, two billion, 3
billion, right? So I focus on Ethereum and
Solana. The other thing is I was looking
at things that were at least for the majority of my list, I was
looking at things that were at least six months old, because
the way I see it is called building or community building.
It's like a plane taking off. And before a plane takes off, it
needs to sort of it first needs to speed up a little bit.
And that in this in this example, that is time.
Nothing can beat time, right? The cobalt can manufacture
price, the cobalt can manufacture short term volumes,
it can even manufacture a centralized exchange listing.
But at the end of the day, time is something that you cannot
fake, you know, and it represents true commitment
because we all let's say we live 80 years, time is like a serious
investment of serious investment of resources.
And if I see that a meme coin's price has been ranging under $20
million for a year, right? It's not breaking out, but it's
not dying. I know that there is a core
group of holders that are essentially DCA ING into the
cells of the non believers. And that's kind of what you want
to find. And I for me personally, I, as
you guys might have noticed, I found the biggest success with
this sort of 10 million to 30 million, like 10 million to 40
million range. I think that's a sweet spot for
something that can develop that early stage cultiness, but also
like not be super expensive. And that's where I at least
personally, in the last 4-5 months, that's where I found the
most value for me, right? The other thing is I want the
meme to be unique. I'm also biased for things that
are either real memes like Giga and APU that have been out there
since 2016 and have been popular on TikTok and Instagram before.
Or. Things that are new, but they
have this sort of like a movement like religious, like
field, right? These are the two categories
that I personally love the most, right?
Because with the real memes, they're going to have the
advantage of other people have already been familiar with them
and with the movements, you're just going to have much higher
levels of inspiration, right? And at the end of the day, these
are like more sort of the quantitative stuff, right?
I, of course, as you guys might have noticed been, I, I really
like things that are truly decentralized as much as
possible, right? I want the supply to be
decentralized both at the overall level, but also at the
whale level. Without naming names, there's a
bunch of cobalt coins where, let's be real, for those who
know, no, there's like 6 people who pretty much own 75% of the
supply. Come on.
I think I kind of bucked up. You got to.
I mean, we know. Those coins?
Come on, come on, baby. You got to.
You got to protect the people from the cobalt coins.
You're like, you're like the roaring Kitty.
Here's all I'll say. Here's all I will say.
If you are a large whale
listening to this right now, if you are a wealthy individual, or
if you are an institution, whether it's AVC or a Trackpoint
institution that is considering dipping your toes into mean
coins. Please hire an on chain sleuth
or an on chain quantitative analyst and have them not only
look at the overall metrics, but also look at exactly what
happened in the earliest blocks, in the earliest hundred blocks.
Those who know, no, I'm not going to say anything else, but
continuing on to my idea. So the most important thing is
sort of this religiosity and this inspiration.
And like I was saying, I also want the whale cohort to be
decentralized. So I'm looking at how many
people are there that own like less than .3% but more than .1%,
right? And then I kind of break that
down into demographics and cohorts.
And I want it to be balanced. I want it to look organic.
If you kind of draw a giant matrix of all of this, you can
see like which coins are legit and which coins are not.
Ultimately, like I said, you're investing in people.
So if you have that opportunity, you want to figure out who the
leaders are, if there, even if there are any, what the decision
making process are, who the biggest whales are, who is
talking about this on Twitter or who's not talking about this on
Twitter. And essentially on top of all
the quantitative things that I've mentioned, you want to get
a feel for the vibe, for the culture.
Are these people pure or, or is this just another sort of group
of weekly flavor of the week sort of cabal that's going to
dump on you? Right.
And goes without saying that you want to look for people that are
more long term, that are at least thinking in quarters,
better yet years, rather than people that are just trying to
get a quick 10X and dump on you next week, right?
So ultimately get to know the people, get to know the culture,
get to know the memes. And on top of the sort of the
more mathematical metrics, that's how you form an opinion.
I love that get the people, the metrics, the memes, all that
very smart, very well said. We have a couple more questions
for you, Murat, so hang tight. But quickly, as you all know, or
if you don't because you're new listener, there's a lot of
people in the audience. We do giveaways every day Murad,
like four days a week. We have a real bit loot box, but
and we take someone from the audience and we let them win
today. I put like 40 miladies in there,
So there's a chance that someone wins wins a milady or 30.
I don't even know. I just went crazy.
I it took me a while to set it up.
So all you have to do to enter this for a chance to win a
milady, a red guy or a punk, actually, it's going to be one
of the three. All you have to do is rafflebot
dot XYZRAFFLEBOT dot XYZ and put the code Murad in here and then
you can enter. And at the end of the show, in
like 10, yeah, 10:00-ish minutes, we'll pick a lucky
winner to come on stage and potentially win.
I wanted to add Sportel Gremlins and the SP site, the, the aeons,
aeons, Aeons. That's how you call them into
the loot box, but they have to be whitelisted on the other side
by real bit. So I don't think they have been
yet, but we'll ask them that We will start giving those away
too, because they're worth a lot of money.
Now. I wish I I could have a question
for you, Murad, Speaking of NFTS, you recently posted about
NFTS, right? You put you put infamous, you
know, Murad lists. You know, you ran it back with
NFTS Love that the Bitcoin puppets are in there, obviously
love my punk, etcetera. So you know, what do you what do
you, what do you make of of that side of the space?
Now when it comes to NFTS, of course a lot of people say min
coins this cycle or NFTS last cycle.
Do you agree with that? And what's your NFT thesis?
They are, they are. They are actually technically
the same thing but I believe meme coins are going to be like
50 times bigger because it's very simple when it boils down
to even a success even in a successful NFT collection.
What if you actually run the numbers?
You will see that you essentially have like 3004
thousand people that are shilling 10,000 illiquid jpegs.
Here the situation is much much more efficient on both sides.
Instead of having 3000 people show 10,000 different illiquid
jpegs, what you have is like half a million people shilling
one single coin. So you can see how much more
economically and powerful that is from a liquidity perspective.
That's why you will see much crazier parabolas in the top
meme coins that even you saw with basie or punks.
So meme coins are very similar to what NFTS are at their core,
but the financial instrument that expresses it is much
better. It's much more effective and
it's much more efficient. And that's why instead of like
whatever the market caps, Basie and crypto punks went to the
top. Meme coins are gonna do 30X
more, 50X more, 100X more even, right?
The I actually have very strong opinions.
I know you guys sort of originally made your names in
the NFT sphere, as I understand it, in kind of 2021 and 2022.
My view is that this cycle, the NFTS that are going to
absolutely crush are going to be those that actually have a mean
coin attached to it. And in a perfect world, you
want. The.
Mean coin to have been created 1st and then the NFT collection
to have been created later rather than the other way around
because that way it's much more organic and the meme coin is
prioritized. The reason for this is the
following. And This is why I am extremely
bullish on Sproto Gremlins, Project Eon, Retardio, and also
APU NFTS that are forthcoming. And the reason for that is
because I think all four of these meme coins are going to do
extremely well. They're going to go into
billions, which a means that their community is going to
become very wealthy. And two, it's going to become a
huge social flex in the digital sphere that you have been a part
of those communities. And essentially all of the quote
UN quote lieutenants of these sort of meme coins, they're
going to be owning one or more of these NFTS.
And I don't mean to sound tacky or cliche or gauche, but I
essentially think that Project Eon, Sprotto, Gremlins, and
Retardio are going to become like the Patek, Basharan and
Odimar of the sort of modern day memetic movement respectively,
right? And I think they're going to
58th floor. I think if the meme coin mania
gets crazy, they might even go to 108th floor.
I know it sounds insane right now, but if you do the math on
illiquid assets, and I know you guys have seen this in late
2021, they can move in price very, very quickly, very
quickly, right. And the human brain, it thinks
in linear terms. It's the human brain is like
been scientifically proven to be very bad at understanding
parabolas and understanding exponential changes.
And I think these these NFTS specifically for me, my
favorites are like I said, Proto Gremlins, Project Beyond and
Retardio well. Certainly we know things can get
crazier than anyone can expect. We've.
Seen it right Tyler? Like board aids went to 450K
floor last cycle. Punks did as well, but punks
different like punks and punks. And I saw them on your list.
I actually really like that you have punks in your list, Murad.
I think it it has a lot of legitimate legitimity to it.
And I agree with the the the meme coin thing.
What do you think, Tyler? What are we going to?
Say, well, I think the like the last question on my list, and
it's a little bit of a sensitive one, but it's it's how do you
exit? So so now you've got, you know,
somewhat cult status. You know, folks are effectively
telling you in into these plays that the Murad index that does
it all fall apart, you know, as soon as you start to sell and
like, are you, are you concerned about that?
Have you thought about like, what, even in eight to 1214
months down the line, what that might look like?
I'm definitely, I'm definitely going to sell some in late 2025,
early 2026 for SPX and Giga specifically.
I am definitely going to hold a bag of multi cycle because I
think these two are going to last more than one cycle.
I'm like very, I'm like extremely high conviction on
these two in particular. But I mean, here's the thing,
right, there will be mean coin valuation frameworks.
People will come up with them in the middle of 2025.
You will see people like run Excel spreadsheets, run quant
analysis, combining all of the social media data and they will
be telling like, OK, this is overvalued, this is undervalued,
etcetera, right? So just like with altcoins,
there will be periods of undervaluation.
There will be periods of overvaluation and it's up to you
to figure out your own sort of entry strategy, exit strategy.
I recommend people to DCA, whether they're going in or
they're going out, it's always much better because you can't
time the markets exactly. Maybe if you're really, really
good, you can time it down to like the month or the quarter.
So yeah, DCA in, DCA out is the most conservative way.
And over the long time frame it outperforms like trying to go
All in all out. OK, I, I think, I think that's a
good point. So it's something that a lot of
people are wondering, right? Like how, how does Murad get out
of, out of all this and, and where do we go from there, man?
Do you have any last questions for Murad?
No, I've just got to pitch him. I've got to pitch him.
I will kill myself in your ad if I didn't tell you that I created
a meme coin. It's seven months old.
It's an OG gaming meme 2009. We're trying to become the
biggest gaming meme in crypto. It's at 15,000,000.
It's what has it else has it been doing?
It's got 95% diamond hands at the moment.
Oh boy, I. Love this Top top 100 holders or
less than 50%. Just put it on your list.
Have a look. Have a look at it for me.
Oh, you're watching? It working on this thing day in
day out for seven months now through several different 70%
drops. And when you came on, I said I'd
kill myself if I didn't pitch it to you.
So epic. Have a look at it.
We'll, we'll definitely take a look.
I love that, I say. I respect that a lot.
I respect that a lot to 1400. People shoot your shot, man.
You shoot your shot. I've been doing this for too
long. I respect it, I respect it.
You know I mean you know thing to Manda.
What do you think of Murad was just quickly because we pinned
the the entries for the for the robot giveaway in a second here.
So we'll do that in Murad. You're probably gonna bring
people lock. I feel it.
But Mando, how do you feel about Murads NFT point?
Because I know Murad. You said, you know, we came up
with the NFT trades and stuff. Mando famously you know had a
$10 million trade on on the board apes right when he he
dumped 7 two of them on Machi famously last last cycle.
What do you think of as of Murad's NFT thesis here?
I think it's interesting because I actually think NFTS, they
naturally drill themselves to meme to better community
building than than meme coins. Because I I tend to find that
when I mean NFT telegrams or discords versus meme coin
discords, it's less about the price.
It's often like, I don't know, I've generally found like people
associated with our identity, whereas there's no like meme.
There's been meme con, but there's no like NFT conferences,
right? Like people aren't meeting up
because they've been talking in discourse the whole time.
That may change. And I feel like what you're
talking about, which is like this sort of cult aspect, maybe
we get to that sort of stage. But I do think that meme coins
can go a lot higher in terms of market cap than than the top NFT
projects. There's no doubt in that just
because of the nature of them. This you can only ever have
10,000 maximum holders of an NFT collection, right?
And you can have hundreds of thousands of a meme coins.
So like the actual the actual people shouting about it can be
way higher. That being said, like the actual
core community I tend to find with NFTS is more like they're
like Navy team, Navy SEAL team 6 right?
Whereas I fight with with meme coins is a bit more disparate.
They they are, but also a an NFT collection success.
It's kind of its own enemy because the floor price becomes
inaccessible to low income people and they can't
participate in it, while with mean points they can participate
at any price point. Yeah, no, you're absolutely
right. I love that Murad, Sam's do you
want to pick up put in the the picker here.
Let's see who won the rules. Just so y'all know you're gonna
have to come on the Twitter spaces if you win request to
speak and you'll see on the screen right now and then we'll
get you a spin. So while while Sam's brings this
up, Murad, I have a quick question for you.
Just chit chatting while we wait.
What do you what do you what do you, what do you have to say to
people who are like, you know, obviously questioning what
you're saying? You know, of course, right now
we're talking beginning of the show, like a lot of people, you
know, your main character, etcetera are like, what do you
make of of the people that are like, yeah, this guy's
delusional, like this is not working and stuff like you just
not give a fuck. Just keep pushing through.
I'm very happy that people think I'm delusional because that
essentially implies that we're early.
If everybody agreed with me, then there would be no economic
opportunity here. In fact, if absolutely every
single person agrees with me, I wouldn't want that.
In fact, I welcome all criticism, I welcome all hate
and I welcome all branding of me as delusional because it simply
tells me that we have much, much higher to go.