Yo-yo what up what up good morning good morning GMD Tuesday
June 3rd 2025 look at that another beautiful day to have a
beautiful day. I got my cousin Tyler Mando good
morning good morning good morning.
We even got our producer best everything.
Good morning everyone, how y'all doing today?
I'm doing amazing man, how are you?
I am fantastic, Mando. Thank you for asking.
I'm fantastic. I'm great.
I'm amazing. Feeling good, man.
Feeling good. I, I, I, I, I'm feeling like
Mando in 2024 and 2023. I, I know what it's like now,
Mando. To have the sun changes like,
you know, hitting me in the face all day long feels good.
What's up? Tyler, how you doing?
Nice background. I'm good.
Yeah, it's sunny here as well in Chicago.
We're feeling good today. Our coin green and big show.
Big, big show today. Big show with Big Joe you know
we have for everybody in the audience we have Joe Lewis Co
founder of Ethereum, founder of consensus and now you know
chairman of the board. I think of sharpling gaming or
at least in the board of sharpling gaming, the investment
vehicle to acquire Billy Dollsworth of ethereum.
So the the the theorem macro strategy is is here and Joe
Lewin is going to be joining us in the studio and on the show in
about 24 minutes. You know, normally we haven't
booked for 10:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, so he'll be with
us in a little bit. So today on the show, we're
going to go quick. We're going to do a market
report. We are going to go through
Tyler's top 10 real quick, his quick topic, see what's up,
what's up. And then we'll just drive right
into the show with Joe and do A and do a, do an interview.
We are going to postpone the gateways.
Shout to gitogit.com. Sign up using the FOMO hour code
in order to have a chance to win money every single day on the
show. I know I say everyday, we do it
everyday. We didn't do it yesterday today,
but we'll do 3 on Fargo and Friday this Friday.
So it'll be fun. Three winners on Friday, a
winner tomorrow and a winner Wednesday because you know, we
want to focus our show today on Joe.
And then as usual, this show is tailored by Wallet Connect.
We all love wallet connect. Check him out.
You know the logo, you've seen it.
Wallet Connect on X and Telegram to stay ahead of what's next and
Mando what's next. I mean look, some green on the
board today. Let's I know you're an Ethereum
bull. So it's it's perfect.
You've been you've been super bowled up on Ethan.
You know I got you this it's like a genie.
You rub the little bottle and you got Joe Lubin coming to show
it today because you kept talking about it.
So let's talk about the market a little bit.
Can you dig it? Hello, everyone.
Good day. I think we had a bit of a bounce
back across the board really. We had Bitcoin kind of going
back towards, up towards around 105 K ETH at just over 2600 and
Solana back towards 160. So a bounce after obviously a
week, a weekend in terms of headlines, the main one on
macros is that we're going to have, again, a delay in the
tariffs on China. So a little bit of a softening
of an approach there. And that led to a little bit of
a rally kind of across the board.
You've also had some weakness in the dollar, which has meant gold
has gone a little bit higher again and alongside, let's say,
Bitcoin. So yeah, just the same sort of
trends of trade not seemed as bad as everyone thought.
Bond yields are still pushing higher, but that's a bit of a
risk. You had Jamie Dimon came out and
said prepare for 5% plus on the 10 year, which I think would be
pretty high. And then we've had yeah, gold
going higher as well. So a relatively supportive
backdrop, I would say for for crypto, but just some worries
about if bond yields are really going to cause some pain here.
For crypto specifically, it was another day, I think of ETH
broadly outperforming. We've had, as Tyler pointed out
this morning, we've had continual inflows into the ETFs
actually outpacing the Bitcoin ETFs, which is kind of wild.
We haven't seen that for a long, long time, just over 400
million. It's I think it's ten straight
days of inflows. Bitcoin, Bitcoin is looking
pretty sorry, ether is looking pretty good here.
Just in terms of flows based in terms of actual headlines.
Yesterday there were some headlines that that the E
foundation is going to be restruct.
There's been a lot of commentary around this.
If you go to DC investor actually middle comment.
The first tweet that shows up is just Mendo's.
You can't make this up, right? This is such a good timeline
here. So you're saying DC investor?
Yeah, he actually made a good post yesterday, which is,
remember, they have made some changes here.
But go down. No, maybe go down a little bit.
Down, down, down. He's been twitting a lot
recently, obviously. Down, down, down, down.
There we go. Yeah, even extremely long time
Ethereum found the ethos can barely comprehend how much the
Ethereum foundation has changed in the last few months.
Most waiting for some kind of catch or a stick stick in the
eye. I don't think either are coming.
The org is radically transformed and is adopting a laser bogus
and pushing you forward. If long time E fans can can even
get crocked this and I'm sure the broader market still has no
clue full speed ahead. I think what we're seeing here
is like they are listing and they get, they are now putting
in a more aggressive team for change.
So there were comments yesterday from italics saying that we won
a 10X basically ETH on a range of metrics over the next few
years. And then now they're putting in
place these sort of core ETH devs in a more with more power,
I would say. So there's there's changes to if
you should go to the ETH and yeah, there we go.
They had this big blog post. The main things is that they're
putting like a different team of Cordevs in charge, which I think
is going to be relatively beneficial.
The main person is this Dankrad Feist guy supported by Dankras
Feist. And yeah, people are like very,
very bullish on the idea that this is now going to be that
pushes it forward. And, and what we've always kind
of lacked before is that they've taken a step back, right?
Like, and then they haven't really been part of that BD
stuff that we've spoken about this team teams like a team
that's going to be a bit more focused on stuff that's going to
push forward the the BD side of of the chain too.
So yeah, just generally, just generally some bullish, bullish
sentiment coming out. I beat there, but we did see a
rally kind of across the board. Hyper liquid also obviously is
the is the 1L1 beating every everything there.
They got a spot listing for finance US or at least said that
they will be getting one in the future, which is pretty wild
that finance US got that list is has decided to list them.
I I didn't even think they would ever list them, but they have.
After Coinbase, right pressure came out from on the Coinbase
side, no. Exactly.
So you now have major exchanges in the US looking to list them,
obviously finance I think in hyper liquid and kind of
somewhat of a baffle. So interesting to see where that
one kind of goes, but Hyper Liquid's definitely been one of
the main main. Wins.
Definitely outperforming here. Yeah, yeah.
What is it? Up what, 37 to 4?
Reverse the Clementa curse. So it's it, I would say it's ETH
and ETH beta. So you've had you had big Wicks
up in like ETH memes are they Athena all had a good day today
and interestingly, on the Solana side, WIF has been the biggest
gain at WIF looks like it's about to reclaim a billion
dollars which it. Is.
Which is now starting to catch up the fuck up, which is pretty
interesting. Yeah, like a big, big move kind
of across the board there in, in a, in a number of different yeah
key EF based coins. And then Solana, I think was
dominated by by like Whiff, which has had like a few Kols
kind of going after it, which has been which has been good to
see. Yeah, I see.
Frankly, just looks like it's about to print a double digit
kind, although hopefully. Yeah, you know.
We still have a a number of different people looking saying
they're going to raise to buy Bitcoin.
Interestingly, Sailor is going to do another craft share
offering that got some like semi fun on the timeline.
I think it's going to going to raise 250 million.
There's some, there's another firm in Hong Kong retail,
Logitech I think is the name. It's going to buy 1.5 billion of
Bitcoin. And then you start to see Tether
move it's Bitcoin to this new vehicle, 21 Capital.
It's moved 37,000 Bitcoin to this new vehicle now, which is a
pretty wild pretty wild move. There was another company that
said it was going to go out and buy Seoul yesterday class over
so they're going to raise 500 million Seoul.
So this is now a bit of a trend, but like crypto treasuries from
all these all these companies remember like this people don't
really know why they've started and why it's been so aggressive.
If you remember, it was the, IT was all the, the accounting
changes that we saw last year that that that was it.
Sailor at the time, yes, Sailor was very vocal like this is
going to be a big change that they can mark them to market
essentially. That has allowed a lot more
companies now to explore this. And it feels like it's going to
be that's going to be with us for a while, you know, going to
be with us for a while. So good across the board,
probably best for hyper liquid Ethernet beta and then all the
stuff I would say is a bit mixed.
OK, perfect. Good outlook here.
Looking good. I think, you know, I feel like
we were looking bottom, but I'm always called, I am always
scared to call bottom there and I'm definitely not calling it
out season by any means. So so we'll just wait, but love
the news on Ethereum. We'll dive deeper into all the
theorem news, thoughts and all that stuff in about 15 minutes.
Would jump S but super bullish on the ecosystem really waking
up here and and and making a move.
I think it's kind of we've talked about this before.
Guys like that meme, like do something, you know, the stick
man like and The thing is doing right.
And so now it's like a restructure and this and that.
So I think definitely pay attention to that and what's
going on in on the Ethereum side there.
All right, Tyler, let's get a quick fire through what you got
for us. Today.
Yeah, folks. Crypto majors nice little
rebound after some China tariff relief.
We have 8th leading the way up 4 percent. 2620 Bitcoin at one O 5
three hype leading all it's up 15%.
What a rebound on a lot of overlap with Mando's headlines.
I'll go through them again quickly.
The theorem foundation announced protocol that's their new
initiative to focus on scaling the L ones and L twos plus a
better user experience along with a change in leadership.
Hong Kong based retar writer Logitech $1.5 billion in Bitcoin
to buy Michael Saylor strategy announced a new IPO for standard
STRD perpetual stock offering. I think starting with 250
million to buy Bitcoin, but they can of course raise more
Metaplanet got to 8888 Bitcoin and also achieving a 225% yield
over the past year. So it's one strategy is working
at least so far. Mando mentioned the Tether news
moving to 21 capital. Another piece of Tether news,
they announced XAUTO tokenized gold, Tether is tokenizing gold
and now on the TON blockchain, they plan to go multi chain with
that product. We also saw Circle up its IPO
offering after interest from BlackRock, they're now looking
to raise up to 900 million in a $7.2 billion valuation.
So that raised target is going higher.
And then somewhat negative news Meta shareholders resoundingly
rejected their Bitcoin treasury proposal 95% no vote on that so
Mehta will not be acquiring Bitcoin anytime soon in token
handover protocol news, Rob Hood announced the acquisition of
Bitstamp that is officially complete.
We knew about this for a few months, but now it's gone
through giving them more than 50 global crypto licenses a new
crypto client base infra and this crypto as a service product
targeting institutions. Gandhi solves first ever ERC 20
loan alone against a a a token holding Guess what the token was
wrecked. So wrecked.
Making some history over on Gandhi in Clanosaurs getting an
animated TV series 39 episodes, 7 minutes long aimed at kids
6:00 to 12:00. So that's going to be an
interesting one to watch. And then Rex, of course we got
to bang the drum one more time that drink cell goes live here
in about 100 minutes so 12:00 PM Eastern.
Make sure you're ready for that 20.
Minutes sell out. Five minutes.
Public go USA. USA is going to go.
Team Europe. Now let's go Europe.
We will see rounding this out AI was up five percent, 10.3
billion. The leaders were green, slightly
green Splat and AXR we're topping over about 25% each meme
coin leaders we're very green Pepe leading the way up 10%
width of 15% SPX up 10% walls coin that ecosystem was up.
It rebounded back to 140 million and and then one of their eco
tokens clad one of the top movers on the day up about 150%
to 16,000,000. So big move there loud down only
seeing below 6,000,000 now as they've been talking about
perhaps changing some of the the levers and measures in that
experiment. So we'll see where that
continues to go. Other than that, couple pieces
of NFT news. Moon birds continue to grind up
their .9 ETH following the acquisition.
The skull of Lucy set a record yesterday. 120 three $100,000
Record, break and sell for those.
Wow. And right after yesterday's
show, Pixel Vault announced they are auctioning off their
historic set of 16 crypto punks. Those were an icon back in the
2021 NFT era for those who are around or the basis of those,
those comic books, the punks comics, which were also an
incredible trade for anyone who was around in early 2021.
I got some you going on some pixel vault lore tied to Mendo.
So the first collection Mendelinovi did was inspired by
Pixel Vault because they were going to make a comic.
I remember the D Jens comic. Pixel Vault was just before D
Jens, yeah. Yeah, literally, like the week
before, the weekends before, like it was the same compressed
time, right? Very, very soon after we were.
We were just. We were just after D Jens
University. Oh no, not.
We don't talk about that. Oh, I remember.
That yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy.
Yetis cool cats. All of those were around the
same time. You guys.
Pixel. What a cooked pixel block.
We're the same weekend as bulls on the block.
Bulls on the bulls on the block. I still have some reply guys
with bulls on the block PFPS I pixel what was point O 8 E mint?
I went to like 12 ETH. I cooked.
I think I turned like 1 E to like 55 ETH on pixel vault back
then. That was one of my best trades
of my life. Crazy.
Then I lost it all. But that's just part for the
course. Yeah, he was scraping together
8th to buy on secondary like .2 Yeah, then a few months later
live. Despite me banging the drum as
high as I can to either of you own ETH?
I have. I told you I have bought a lot
of Pepe and mug a couple weeks ago and wrecked.
That's the same thing. So what?
I said what do you mean? Any ETH I I would.
Say I have, I have 30 percent, 30% of My Portfolio is allocated
to Pepe Mogrect at the moment. Right.
And the other 70% is far coin. Tyler's got the nod of a man.
He's. Tyler, I'm in the ETH betas,
crypto punks, and a couple ETH memes.
No, I didn't count my crypto punk in there.
No get out of here. Crypto Punks is a beta you're
going to die with. That What's our bet on ET?
Come on. But you're not going to sell it.
You're going to don't give it to your kids.
I don't think you bought to trade it.
I can I can still participate in the Root on the East rally.
As everyone's giving me shit now, Yeah.
Wait, hold on, Mando hanging. The drum as hard as I can.
And you guys? Well, Brother, Brother Pepe, you
saw the candle. Brother, brother, you saw the
candle on the Pepe today. You sound like that restaurant
you went to last night. Dude, honestly, you know why,
guys, I have a story for everybody.
Yesterday I was a victim of cultural appropriation for the
first time in my life, and now I understand what it's like.
Mando recommended. By the way, Mando has been
incredible. He's recommended so far, 10 for
10 recommendations in Lisbon. He incredible, incredible.
I got to give him that credit before I bash it, but he sent me
to this place called Cafe Tehran.
My last name is Tehrani. OK, supposed to be in rainy
restaurant. I walk in there, first of all,
it's nothing Iranian on the menu.
It's Arabic and you guys know it's this other, it's pretty
frothy out there. And, and then I said, you have
Kobe Day, which is like our main meal, right?
It's like you go to an American restaurant, like you have the
burger and they go, what's that? They go, what's that?
I was so pissed. So I, I, I accepted the fact
that I was in a different restaurant and it's not a remain
restaurant. So there's no Iranian
restaurants in Lisbon and there's cultural appropriation
man, though yeah, they claim they were Persian restaurant.
I all I said was I think there's an Iranian restaurant around.
There, I'm going to open my own. Don't worry, I'm opening my own.
You can. Be partners.
You're welcome to be partners. You can be a silent partner in
the restaurant. My mother's going to run it.
It's called. It's going to be called Dastan,
just like our parent company here.
And yeah, exactly. Ari.
He's like, what the fuck? In the Iranian restaurant
without Kubi Day. That's and thank you, Ari.
He's my fellow person. Middle Eastern food is something
that I have. The weird things that I have not
found very good on Lisbon are Middle Eastern food and Italian
food. There's not that many Italians.
It's OK. The rest is great.
I just, I just had a meeting with actually one of those.
But not that many Italians. And like Middle Eastern is like,
it's like what you said. It's like it's actually some guy
from a completely different country who's decided to do the
cuisine and called himself that. Like every single chef in there
is like full on like white. Yeah.
But like, you know, like, if I go to a Persian restaurant, I
want to see a grandma in the back fucking cooking up, you
know, like, I want to see like, yeah, that's how it is.
Like, you go to a Persian restaurant, it's like, oh, you
know, they were playing Ed Sheeran, bro.
Ed Sheeran. They sang one Iranian song and
they're playing this shit all day.
You know? Nothing wrong against Ed Sheeran
Restaurant. There's one of the two Israeli
restaurants. It's like there's one Turkish
and like there's like it's, it is light on on the Levant area.
Let's put that. I'll open it.
I got this. I'll open a Persian restaurant.
You're all invited on me the first time.
Then you got to pay. So back-to-back back to Tyler's.
Back to Tyler's topics. Yeah, we still have a few
minutes before Joe comes in the studio.
What was your, what's your top headlines here, Tyler?
Yeah. Should we talk about the sailor
heading a bit more because I think it always gets people a
little rattled now. Oh yeah, when he makes these
announcements. So the news is he's launching a
new perpetual stock offering. It's Stride.
STRD will be the ticker it's perpetual offering.
Institutional investors select non investors, it looks like
they're going to price at $100 a share going to issue 2.5 million
against 10% preferred Class A of MicroStrategy is how I
understand this. I'm just curious on on Mando's
thoughts here. Is this the type of raise that
we like because it's via equity? That was my general read on it
versus like a lever debt. Yeah.
So it's interesting if you go into the details, they have non
accruing dividends which is quite an important thing like
now what this does, what I do think this is bad for is the
common stockholders of micro traction.
When you when you get when you get a preferred equity offering,
this may go over a top of a lot of people's heads, but it may
not. But preferred means that you
will get paid a dividend first. So if anyone's going to get paid
a dividend, you get paid at first, OK.
And they've said you're going to get 10% dividend.
Now they don't have to pay that dividend.
It's a non cumulative dividend. But it's if they are going to
pay a dividend, then they then they have to pay these guys 10%.
And it is also, but it is also equity at the same time.
So it says strategy will not have, will have.
Sorry, Let me just let me strategy will not have any
obligation to pay a regular dividend for any regular
dividend period unless strategy declared such different period
prior to the regular. Yeah, well, yeah.
So there's no dividend interest or other amount will accumulate.
So basically it's base, it layers the if you own micro
trashy stock, like I don't particularly love these because
it means that that these guys get paid a dividend and you you
might not. And and that's absolutely fine.
That's kind of actually how this has been designed.
It's not a huge amount like of what I could see.
It's not like it massively changes their leverage.
And I think there's a lot of focus on micro strategy right
now. There's a lot more companies
which will fall before micro strategy.
But this does point to, yeah, like this is the thing right
now. We're going to raise debt to buy
to buy crypto here. And I think it's a little bit of
a worry kind of across the market.
Two major things that you heard from that Bitcoin conference was
we're going to raise debt to buy Bitcoin or sometimes it's press,
but like sometimes it's converts.
And the second thing was Bitcoin lending.
Both of those things is add leverage to Bitcoin and and at
an institutional level. So I think what you're really is
sowing the seeds of quite a quite a horrific downturn.
If you if you saw a sustained period of lower prices, that's
for that way. Perfect.
I totally. I understood everything you just
said. What are you drinking?
What's the drink of torch today, Amanda?
My wife just got this for me. I actually don't know.
I think it's like a Chai Chai latte.
Nice, nice. What would we do with otherwise?
Why would I feel like all three of us be fucking dead?
Suddenly a drink appears. Suddenly a fruit bowl appears.
Or else I would feed myself. Did anyways.
All right, so that's great. I see.
I see Joe in in the studio. Just a reminder to everyone,
we're live on audio, but this show is really more of an visual
experience. Let's put it this way.
So Joe will be joining us on video.
I see you in the studio, Joe, 10 seconds exactly.
So we've posted Tyler Mando and I and from our on our pages,
respective pages of broadcasting.
But you can also catch the show on YouTube, which I kind of
think it's a better experience and soon on other platforms.
Next week, we've got some changes coming to the show,
which are for the better for everyone.
But anyways, for now, you can catch us on Rug Radio, YouTube
or on natively. Anyways, let's get the man
himself, Joe Lubin, in the house.
Joe, how you doing today? Good morning.
How you doing? Hey, guys.
I'm doing great, fantastic, fantastic.
Actually, Joe, I just left a meeting with one of your team
members on the minimize side this morning.
He says hi. Very cool.
Yeah, Alexander. Where Where are you today?
I am in Lubin. No, no.
Very nice. Yeah, I'm in Lisbon.
There's an NFC Lisbon conference.
A lot of us are out here, Benny. I know Benny been trying to get
you to buy a pumpkin. I know you're the Sam spread.
Did Benny whisper to mention that first thing?
Benny's the whisper, you know, punk masters, Sam Sprat Whisper.
But we'll talk about that a little later.
We'll talk about that a little later, Joe.
Yeah, a lot of people, as a matter of fact, we're saying,
hey, we got to get Joe Crypto punk, but we'll keep that
chatter for later. We got a few options for you.
We're going to show you on the show anyways.
Yeah, we're we're putting in, you know, from from from from
all over the world at the moment.
Joe, it's a pleasure to have you listen.
I don't think we need any introductions here when it comes
to Julian in the world. The crypto.
I mean there Co founder, founder consensus which you know,
obviously you got a lot going on there and most recently you
became a board member. Chairman of the Board.
Chairman of the board of Sharp Link Gaming, which we're going
to be talking about here. Congratulations, Joe.
I mean, why don't you give us maybe a TLDR of this new
announcement which we've been talking about every day.
We were going to go in depth into it Yesterday we said Nope,
hold your horses. Joe's coming on tomorrow to talk
about it. So why don't you take us through
the Sharp Link Gaming, you know, and the billion dollars that was
raised in order to acquire Theorem.
Yeah. So I'll keep it brief because
you guys probably have questions and and we can riff.
But we've, we've been doing research for about 6 months to
decide whether we wanted to get into this kind of investment or
or this kind of opportunity. We been scanning lots of
different ways of doing it, scanning different target
companies that we could either reverse merge into or or lead a
major investment round into. And Sharplink popped up a very
small number of weeks ago and we've been sprinting to get it
done. We felt it was going to be
incredibly valuable to be pretty much the first major mover.
Consensus thinks of itself, has always thought of itself as the
Ethereum company. More more recently, we're in
Ethereum first pan ecosystem company because we've got to
provide infrastructure to the the whole reasonable
decentralized protocol ecosystem.
Lots of great projects beyond Ethereum, but of course, all
roads flow to and, and through theorem.
And so we identified this opportunity.
We said, let's go. We talked to lots of investors
and it was just an unbelievable Sprint.
Our Corp dev team, our legal team, our finance team did the
most heroic thing. Days, nights, weekends, and we
got it done. And it it.
I don't know if you noticed but it popped.
We definitely know this. Yeah, we were, we were very
pleased with the initial performance and and structurally
we think there's no reason why it shouldn't just keep going for
maybe years, maybe decades. The, the way, the way society
moves there, there are deep structural things that drive
certain financial flows. So in the US you've got
treasuries that for 30 years grew lower and lower in their
interest rates and and appreciated for a very, very
long time. So lots of trading strategies
were based on that Japanese carry trade, decades of of
borrowings, yen and and investing in, in different
higher yielding trades. And we strongly believe that
there's a paradigm shift underway to a more decentralized
world economy society. And we think that's going to be
pretty good for what I think is the major productive asset in
our ecosystem. Ether should be quite good for
Bitcoin, should be pretty good for a whole bunch of other
tokens. But I think the Big E will end
up being Ether And, and you can imagine with the structure of
these kinds of companies, these kinds of treasury strategy
companies, I could imagine that if you invest in it, that you're
going to keep growing the amount of ether that you hold in, in
each of your shares. And, and the price of ether is
likely to like this is not financial advice.
I'm not licensed, let's say financial representative.
I, I am licensed. I'm self licensed as an, an
Ethereum Rep, so I I can talk about Etherium and it, it seems
just enormously likely that that the Etherium ecosystem will
continue to grow. I think we're at our, our
broadband moment now. And, and I guess one more
exciting thing is that the Tradfi meets Defy.
Yeah, we're going to, we're going to be on earnings calls,
we're going to be on CNBC and Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal
and bug radio and, and, and we're going to be talking about
Ethereum and Defy. And we're going to be explaining
it to Tradfi professionals because they're going to be
seeing people making money in this particular strategy.
And there's nothing more motivating to learn about the
intricacies of Ethereum and Defy than a really compelling
strategy for Wall Streeters to to make money.
With Yeah, well, I love that. Go ahead, Mandel.
Lightly, so is the is the theme because I think a lot of the
Bitcoin treasury companies have just they're just buy and hold.
They're more like, you know, the more commodities traders, almost
unladen trading, they're just, they're like gold vehicles
almost you, you, you consider this to be a productive asset.
So you're going to be doing a range of different things with
it. Yeah, absolutely.
So, so Bitcoin yield, as Michael Saylor has defined it, is you
buy some MSTR and you rely on them to grow the number of
Bitcoin that you have access to through your shares on, on a
fully diluted basis. So, so you're hoping Bitcoin
goes up and, and you're expecting that you're going to
get more and more Bitcoin for for each share that you own.
So we'll certainly do that, but staking, restaking defy at
prudent risk levels, we will add ether yields to this other form
of yields that they've defined. So it's a productive asset in
that sense. It's also productive because
people use it to power applications and store data on
the Etherium network. At some point, some points in in
our evolution when there's a lot of activity on the ether
network, it turns into an ultrasound asset where we're
burning it and deflating the monetary supply.
So. No, I think that's super
interesting. I mean, that's kind of how I was
hoping even say that would go down the route of like actually
owning a yield in the Bitcoin, but it hasn't really happened.
With any of these companies, yeah.
But he he's very clear and strict about saying something
and doing it. He wants to be extremely
reliable for his investors. And so when he says these things
are going to be in cold storage, I'm never moving them.
I'm just going to keep accumulating.
I believe it. I don't think he's fancy.
How many chairs do you sit on, Joe?
How many chairs? I'm sitting on one chair right
now. I love that.
I love one chair, one chair that that has always, that has in.
Historically, this is my this is my chair.
There you go, I love it. I love it.
Then I know Tyler's got some questions.
I'll say my second question would just be like, why do you
think it's taken this for people to start to get E like you could
invest in a vehicle like this. You can invest in an ETH based
fund, right? Like, but it seems like this has
been the best way to do it. Like almost take over the
strategy of an existing stock. It's some sort of public listed
equity and be like, right, we're going to we're going to now do
this. Like, why is this been the thing
that's really unlocked Wall Street, you think?
So first I mentioned earlier that I feel like we're now at
our our broadband moment in the Etherium ecosystem.
And what I mean by that is more about the functionality of the
network. So we with the roll up centric
road map, which is going incredibly well, we've enabled
us to grow horizontally and vertically in terms of
scalability. So infinite scalability like the
Internet, you can just add new new layer 2 networks.
So we can take that new ZKEVM technology, we can enshrine it
in into layer one and, and beat things up that way.
We're affordable, lots of block space for now.
The internet's a really big place.
So, so when we start migrating all of web 2 to to web three,
we're going to need lots more block space.
But it, it's quite affordable right now.
Things are pretty usable. They're they're going to get
delightfully usable when we have a is in our wallets and and in
user interfaces and and in the United States of America.
It was it was dangerous to hold tokens.
Your GC wouldn't allow you to hold tokens.
Your GC certainly would have laughed you out of the room if
you suggested that you issue a token.
If you're a normal enterprise, Oregon traditional financial
institution, if you're a brilliant application developer,
it was kind of crazy to decide to build in our ecosystem in the
United States of America until essentially the chair Gensler
was effectively removed from gaslighting our industry and and
trying to kill slow or or Co opt our industry.
But now we have all those structural things handled so
that people can start building applications for for end user
consumers for end user enterprises.
So, so that's on. And more directly to your
question, again, it's about identifying a strategy that
captures Wall Street interests that that sounds sort of cool
and edgy and and enormously profitable.
And so that that's when the the financial geeks get interested.
If they get interested, it, it starts to take on a buzz.
How do you think, how do you think about the messaging to the
Wall Street crowd versus perhaps more of a crowd?
Like are you changing some of your emphasis points?
I'm curious how you how you think about that as you're about
to go on a road tour. Well, I, I like to talk about
Ethereum and the financial stuff is very interesting as well, but
it's really the capabilities of Ethereum that drives all of
this. The Internet a long time ago
came along and it changed information, changed the travel
industry, it changed the journalism industry.
So many different industries were scaled by digital
transformation. Pretty much 1 industry managed
to avoid that. There there's been very little
innovation in the financial services industry.
So they, they put some, some websites in front of their,
their terrible account structures and they innovative
on some financial instruments that they used to exploit lots
of people. But but really the financial
industry has not seen the same kind of transformation that the
the Internet brought to so many different industries.
But that's on now there's structural fatigue in the
financial system. It's breaking, you know, we're
we're at the end of a super cycle effectively and the
excesses of the financial industry, the financialization
of America, the hauling out of of the middle class in America
is leading us all to essentially the end of this super cycle.
And and a Strauss and how sense and we are decentralized
protocols are the answer to bringing forth a new global
financial system. There is no global financial
system right now. It's a, it's a whole bunch of
solid financial systems Scotch taped together via correspondent
banking relationships. And and now we have this thing
that that some people put together a decade or so ago in
terms of Bitcoin etcetera. And now it's a a global real
time hyper connected financial system with programmable money,
programmable financial instruments where where anybody
can actually build something and deploy it and and use it, total
transformation. I think it's an easy pitch for
those who understand the the vision and the mission and maybe
drilling into Ethereum and the Ethereum Foundation.
We had some big news yesterday with the announcement of the
protocol initiative and now this new refocus on scaling the L
ones, the L twos and user experience.
Curious for your reactions to that and perhaps like the timing
of you spinning up the the Sharp Link vessel alongside this
recent pivot from the Ethereum Foundation.
It seems to. So it's a recent pivot in the
sense that the people became aware of it, but things have
been in process for for around a year.
There was a lot of malaise in our ecosystem.
Bitcoin was doing great because it has a clear value proposition
and a clear message. Solana was doing great because
Sam destroyed the protocol, crashed the price down to what 9
bucks or something like that. And then it found this meta that
it leaned into and you know, so mean coins are are very cool
innovation, but which is a lot of disturbing stuff that that
went on around meme coins. So in in a theorem as well, but
but that at a smaller scale. So they wrote that up nicely and
the theorem in the middle child was sitting there no planning
for the future. We we're trying to do all the,
all the things right and build epic infrastructure for our
broadband moment. And so ether price goes down and
there were the follows price. So everybody was slightly later
Ether bags starts pointing at everybody else and saying you
suck, this is your fault etcetera.
But really things were going great in the Etherium ecosystem.
We we took this ZKEVA technology that we been pioneering at layer
2 and we're now bringing it into layer one consensus hopes to
participate in that. We're really excited about that
direction. So layer one, we'll get really
beefy. We'll have lots of blobs.
Layer twos will be incredibly important.
I actually think that they will be important for scalability,
but I think they'll be more important for diversity of the
different kinds of databases that that sit on top of layer 1.
You know, all the layer twos are essentially databases with, with
functionality and, and in terms of the political constructs.
So we're talking to major sovereign wealth funds and banks
in a particular country who are interested in how do we build
infrastructure in the Etherium ecosystem.
So I'm like, and they're thinking, OK, we got to build
our own. Wow.
Etherium because we're worried that the Americans might control
the Etherium network. And I said that's not a problem,
that's not going to happen. But still you probably want to
build some of your infrastructure at the Etherium
layer one and you probably want your own constructed layer 2 so
you can have a nation state layer 2 and then all the
different political subdivisions.
So I think that's how our ecosystem is going to evolve
with Layer 2 as being a an organizational construct.
So there's a sovereign country looking into doing.
Something like that. There's a very big, big country.
Yeah, exactly. Mando, are you hearing this?
Hearing this? Mando's been bull bull posting,
bull talking Ethereum Joe on this show.
Awesome. 30 minutes per day out of the hour we have.
So, so music is it so? I think there's been some very
concrete changes. I think some of the stuff.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And let me answer.
Let me answer your question. So I think organically
everybody's feeling a lot better about stuff.
The changes that were announced in the EF have been wonderful,
the access, the proactivity. So I, I've had discussions with
leadership and, and I'm so excited with, with what the EF
is doing. Frankly, I was, I was pretty
comfortable that the EF has been doing great things all along.
I do think that I'm more proactive.
Posture by the EF is valuable. I think it's the right time for
that. But I think the EF has done a
great job for a very long time. And, you know, all along we've
been building and we just keep going and the world is catching
up to us. Yeah.
I think, I think the main thing that's got me more bullish is,
is this I, I think you, I mean Salon has had a great cycle in
terms of activity. You can't really deny that it's
really, really did lead, lead in terms of that for a for a long
period of the cycle. What got me what I, I think it's
got me more more bullish has been firstly, just like the
changes around how we're going to view the layer one for fees.
I quite liked the ultrasound narrative.
I thought was a very strong one for Ethan.
It's kind of drifted away, but looks like it might come back.
And if I look at the top block chains out there, activity is
only one real measure of success, like Bitcoin.
Bitcoin doesn't have as much activity as most of the others,
It's really just a store of value.
XRP seemingly have a crazy high valuation, doesn't really have
much going on there. Best marketing project in the
history of the world. I actually think the value of of
a cryptocurrency is often down to that store of value or like
it being seen as, yeah, just like a productive asset.
Like you just said. I think the ETH, even if it
doesn't capture all the activity and that moves to the L ones, if
it can recapture that, this is a really good store of value,
which can still be productive. I think that is where it can
become very strong. And I think the changes to the
EF have really just been the icing on the cake where I felt
like, OK, this has now shifted and it's been beaten down for a
long time and now it's got the narrative back.
But you can feel it if it's got the narrative back.
And I think now it can hopefully use that because it has all the
trad fire rails. What you just did, you're going
to be the first of many, right? You must know there must be
about 10 other companies. Now the reason why you want to
do it so quick is because everyone's seen what just
happened to the shop in stock and go like, right, we're going
to do the same thing. And ETH is probably the best
asset to do it with given the rails that it has.
So it feels as though there could be now this institution.
Like and exactly. And while everybody was taking
shots at at Ethereum, it was still by far the biggest
ecosystem out there. It still had the bulk of the
real world assets, the bulk of the stable coins.
It has not all of D5, but a giant proportion of D5.
So I would say that the Bitcoin Maxis are really good at talking
shit and the Solana Maxis are professionalizing that as well.
And. And the Ethereum people are
really good at keeping heads down and building because
there's a lot that we need to do now.
There isn't a lot that the Bitcoin people need to do.
They, their protocol. I, I love Bitcoin.
I was a Bitcoiner in early 2011. I'm still a bitcoiner.
The Bitcoin protocol is finished and perfect, So what do they
have to do? Well then said they did ruins
and ordinals, but that's another conversation, Tyler.
Ordinals are cool, yeah. Go.
Ahead, Joey, we we run this as a market show as well.
I'm curious for your thoughts on the market as someone who's, you
know, I'm thinking out of years, decades I'm sure, but I'm kind
of curious for your thoughts on the broader crypto market
outlook on then like a one year horizon as well as a four to
five year horizon here. You mentioned the structural
change, the deep structural changes earlier on in our convo
he's carried they elaborate on some of that.
Yeah, So it's probably dangerous to listen to an eternal optimist
like me, but I, I think we're moving into a period where as we
we discussed already, the mainstream culture, Wall Street,
all the Wall Street's around the world are are going to have to
take notice the existing economy is being reformatted.
I do believe that the United States had to make some changes
because a long time ago the United States ended up being the
sole superpower and it was a a kinder period where the US
helped lots of countries we rebuild themselves.
The US was very comfortable allowing tariffs in lots of
different countries, essentially paying for the rebuilding.
US for strategic reasons made itself world police, established
NATO, paid for the bulk of NATO, policed the seas to keep the
trade inexpensive via naval transportation and some
countries took advantage of that.
One country in particular took extreme advantage of that and
and has been at war with the you know, China's been at war with
the United States pretty much declared for a long time doing
some disturbing things. And we need a good healthy
relationship with China and every other nation and it and it
should be balanced. So the US, we are moving into a
multi polar world and and we need healthy trade relationships
and if the US is going to continue to protect certain
things that should probably get paid some of the costs.
And so with that in the background, we're going to see
massive change. We are seeing massive change.
And in a multi polar world, you probably want a credibly neutral
platform on which to execute transactions, guaranteed
transactions to maintain relationships.
If you if you enter into a treaty currently it's really
easy to just break those things. They're they're not really worth
much if you enter into a treaty on the Ethereum blockchain and
you put many billions of dollars at stake and maybe there's a
maybe there's utility in the United Nations.
Maybe the United Nations can help adjudicate when when there
are conflicts with respect to a smart contract.
So if, if there's a strategic arms limitation smart contract
that both parties put a whole lot of money into it and one
party breaks that agreement, then they should be slashed
massively. So we, we now have the financial
means to to do interesting and healthier geopolitical things.
So anyway, total transformation, that's probably going to be
really good for the economy. I believe we're at the end of a
super cycle. I believe we're at the start of
a new super cycle with the new promise, a new system of the
world, new social contracts. And that's going to be really
good for for anybody who's coming into the world now or
maybe 10 years from now, because they'll probably be rocky for a
little while. Do you think?
Yeah, go ahead. I was going to ask him maybe a
slightly controversial question, but like there was a lot of talk
maybe in our cycle, which was that, you know, E could could
kind of maybe even overtake Bitcoin with this like this
productive asset capability. Do you still have that that
belief? Do you still think E has got a
better proposition potentially to the world here in terms of
value creation? Yeah.
So I think of Bitcoin as gold 2.0.
I think it will probably have that use case probably for a
long time. It seems to be a strong enough
religion at this point so that it'll stick.
Ether is somewhere between the world, computer, electricity,
energy, oil or what I what I really like is ether being seen
as the most valuable trust commodity on the planet.
So information's a commodity. They're different, different
kinds of of promises that can be treated as a commodity,
assurances, agreements. We don't really think of trust
currently as a commodity, but if you think about the levels of
trust that you need to add to certain situations to make them
more valuable, you could probably come up with a grading
system for different kinds of trust.
Satoshi Nakamoto invented this most profound thing,
decentralized trust, the the highest grade trust in the
world, especially if it's on a radically decentralized network.
And there's no better trust network than a theorem.
It can guarantee execution of transactions.
And I think of ether now as as the gold standard in trust or
highest octane trust, etcetera. So will that be more valuable
than Bitcoin? Seems very likely.
Maybe, yeah, maybe in a that could be, that could be very
valuable. I love that.
That's a great question, Mando. Joy, if you have 5 more minutes.
I think Tyler is just another question on the Metamask front
and some of the cool stuff you guys have been up to.
Would be great to get some of your takes on Metamask and stuff
going on Linnea, but go ahead, Tyler.
Yeah, I found a notable the Ethereum Foundation refocusing
on user experience and I think Metamask has been doing the
same. Yesterday we had the the
announcement the acquisition of of Web 3 auth.
I'm just kind of curious to hear from you about the why that was
strategic kind of what the the focus is right now with
Metamask. Yeah, so they're awesome that
they've built some great technology.
So it's it's instant onboarding. It's it's ways of recovering
your account if you lose your secret recovery phrase.
They have thousands of of different projects using their
embedded wallet system. So we see it as top of funnel
that the millions of users in those thousands of projects.
We see it as top of funnel with all these different projects
that can, you know, instantly put together a quickly skinned
wallet. And then we'll just set up a
Mycelio network underground that enables, if you've got a few of
these wallets, you can connect them into your meta mask or, or
if you just want a longer term durable, more secure
relationship, then easy on boarding from from one of these
embedded wallets to to your meta mask.
So there's that's the end user perspective.
We're building a an increasingly capable developer stack.
So they'll be a big part of that as well.
I'm curious as well how you're contemplating with the AI agent
revolution or are you, are you contemplating how Metamask will
integrate with perhaps agents? And then Part 2, is Ethereum
going to be the home? There's a lot of.
Yeah. So we're, we're exploring AI
from so many different perspectives.
In particular, we do believe that you should be typing to or
talking to your Metamask. The Internet is already too hard
for us to use. It's exploitative and nobody has
the time to read terms and conditions.
So we just click through stuff and we get regularly abused by
big tech and, and just the business model of the Internet
is, is adversarial pretty much. So how are we all going to deal
with this even more complicated version of the Internet?
Smart contracts. Who's going to read smart
contracts? Who's going to read proposals
and Dows? So they can vote on that.
It's kind of unreasonable. But if you have a digital twin
AI ally, an agent that coordinates your activities,
it'll know what you care about. You can delegate tasks, you can
delegate voting permissions, you can give it allowances and it
can essentially do your bidding on the Internet.
If if you wanted to explain AD 5 protocol, if you wanted to
explain what the latest proposal in this Dow means and what it
thinks you should vote, then then it'll do that.
So we, we finally have a powerful interface that we trust
and we're going to need to own these things.
We, we really don't want a tech to own our interfaces that know
everything about us to, to web 3.
So if we own these things, we can train them.
They'll be so first, first we will sort of be their parents in
a sense, training them. Then they will be our mentors
and life partners. And so a very, very long running
intimate relationship and it in terms of where they sit.
So they're going to get they're going to get smaller and
smaller. I believe there will be large
language models, foundational models in lots of different
societies that understand sub teas and language and culture.
I think that's going to be important to different nation
states. But then there will be just
giant swarms of mixture of experts, agents that that do
lots of things. I think we'll have a controller
that that manages all of that and you probably want it on your
own hardware somehow there. There will probably be
blockchain systems that are fast enough and big enough,
decentralized storage systems that can house some of those
things. So that's a it's a big
technological step, but we definitely have to get away from
centralization in the AI space. If the big tech is able to win
this, then we're all in a lot of trouble.
Makes a lot of sense. Appreciate all your thoughts.
You're muted. Sorry here you go sorry.
I know you got a busy schedule Joe listen popular request
question here. I have to ask for the people you
know when are we going to see a a Joe Lubin crypto punk?
You know you're. Who Who's paying you?
Who's paying you to bug me about punk?
Not enough. I I I know who's paying you.
Node Foundation. Hello, Node Foundation.
You know, I'm a I'm a good advocate.
I'm. A they they are awesome.
I'm a big fan of the Node Foundation and I have regular
conversations with those people, so who knows.
I'm seeing Benny tonight and and he I know he's going to ask me
if I ask you and he had he told me to ask you about the mask you
I will, I will. I know you bought a mask as well
with from from Sprite that you're involved in the NFT
ecosystem. So you know, it's, it's good to
see some love on the NFT side. OK, I know it's the 2021 thing.
But we still need my my issue. My issue is that I want if I'm
going to do a PFPII want something unique, something that
I'm going to feel good about for a long time.
So. All right, you heard it here.
Everyone start selling your one of ones to Joe Lubin.
Not too hard, not too hard, Joe. Last question is what's one
thing you're most excited about? I guess, I guess that's on.
I think we're we're finally crossing the chasm into the
mainstream financial system, mainstream economy, mainstream
culture. I am at a party in Las Vegas
Bitcoin conference and Scottie Pippen shows up.
We chat. He's he's taking pictures with
lots of crypto people. So we we may have arrived.
There you go. We may have arrived.
Joe Lubin, thank you very much for coming on the Sunday.
It's a it's a pleasure. Appreciate it all right, all
right well, that was a lot of fun guys, great interview.
We got some oops see Amanda and Amanda had to go.
We got we got some some good alpha out of this one Tyler.
I think that was a successful interview.
So with that. I'm bold up.
I can say that. I'm, I'm, I'm rethinking my my
30% portfolio allocation. It's yeah, market's pumping
while Joe's talking. He loved that.
Oh yeah, he's. Ripping on the back of all of
his words. We need to clip that part where
he said a sovereign state is looking the bill on chain on
Ethereum and we could get the first sovereign state L2.
There's no way this has been said before.
Like I think we got Omar, we got to get clipping ASAP.
We got to repost this entire interview.
That was some great Tomorrow we'll probably have some time to
to to recap and and and go over this interview, which was
really, really awesome. I'm glad and the market's doing
well right now. So you obviously love to say all
right, well, Tyler, that was a good one.
Good work. Love that you know, Mandel also
got involved Here was a great interview with that with that
with that. We'll see y'all tomorrow
morning, same time, same place, 10 AM Eastern Standard Time for
the episode of FOMO Hour on our radio.
Let's go.