1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:08,240 Yo-yo what up what up good morning good morning GMD Tuesday 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,520 June 3rd 2025 look at that another beautiful day to have a 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:18,600 beautiful day. I got my cousin Tyler Mando good 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,000 morning good morning good morning. 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,160 We even got our producer best everything. 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,760 Good morning everyone, how y'all doing today? 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,680 I'm doing amazing man, how are you? 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,640 I am fantastic, Mando. Thank you for asking. 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:34,920 I'm fantastic. I'm great. 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,200 I'm amazing. Feeling good, man. 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,480 Feeling good. I, I, I, I, I'm feeling like 12 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:46,680 Mando in 2024 and 2023. I, I know what it's like now, 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,280 Mando. To have the sun changes like, 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,840 you know, hitting me in the face all day long feels good. 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:52,840 What's up? Tyler, how you doing? 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,920 Nice background. I'm good. 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,880 Yeah, it's sunny here as well in Chicago. 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,120 We're feeling good today. Our coin green and big show. 19 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,000 Big, big show today. Big show with Big Joe you know 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,180 we have for everybody in the audience we have Joe Lewis Co 21 00:01:08,180 --> 00:01:11,440 founder of Ethereum, founder of consensus and now you know 22 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,080 chairman of the board. I think of sharpling gaming or 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,320 at least in the board of sharpling gaming, the investment 24 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:18,640 vehicle to acquire Billy Dollsworth of ethereum. 25 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,120 So the the the theorem macro strategy is is here and Joe 26 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,200 Lewin is going to be joining us in the studio and on the show in 27 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:25,880 about 24 minutes. You know, normally we haven't 28 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,920 booked for 10:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, so he'll be with 29 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,440 us in a little bit. So today on the show, we're 30 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,560 going to go quick. We're going to do a market 31 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,440 report. We are going to go through 32 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,400 Tyler's top 10 real quick, his quick topic, see what's up, 33 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,680 what's up. And then we'll just drive right 34 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,280 into the show with Joe and do A and do a, do an interview. 35 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:46,800 We are going to postpone the gateways. 36 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,840 Shout to gitogit.com. Sign up using the FOMO hour code 37 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,960 in order to have a chance to win money every single day on the 38 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,400 show. I know I say everyday, we do it 39 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:56,840 everyday. We didn't do it yesterday today, 40 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,240 but we'll do 3 on Fargo and Friday this Friday. 41 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:00,800 So it'll be fun. Three winners on Friday, a 42 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,200 winner tomorrow and a winner Wednesday because you know, we 43 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:04,440 want to focus our show today on Joe. 44 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,920 And then as usual, this show is tailored by Wallet Connect. 45 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,680 We all love wallet connect. Check him out. 46 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:11,880 You know the logo, you've seen it. 47 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,920 Wallet Connect on X and Telegram to stay ahead of what's next and 48 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:17,560 Mando what's next. I mean look, some green on the 49 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,760 board today. Let's I know you're an Ethereum 50 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:20,800 bull. So it's it's perfect. 51 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,440 You've been you've been super bowled up on Ethan. 52 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,920 You know I got you this it's like a genie. 53 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:28,240 You rub the little bottle and you got Joe Lubin coming to show 54 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,880 it today because you kept talking about it. 55 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:37,560 So let's talk about the market a little bit. 56 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,920 Can you dig it? Hello, everyone. 57 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,280 Good day. I think we had a bit of a bounce 58 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:53,080 back across the board really. We had Bitcoin kind of going 59 00:02:53,080 --> 00:03:01,760 back towards, up towards around 105 K ETH at just over 2600 and 60 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,040 Solana back towards 160. So a bounce after obviously a 61 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,280 week, a weekend in terms of headlines, the main one on 62 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,600 macros is that we're going to have, again, a delay in the 63 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,480 tariffs on China. So a little bit of a softening 64 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,440 of an approach there. And that led to a little bit of 65 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:21,960 a rally kind of across the board. 66 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,480 You've also had some weakness in the dollar, which has meant gold 67 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,520 has gone a little bit higher again and alongside, let's say, 68 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,560 Bitcoin. So yeah, just the same sort of 69 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,120 trends of trade not seemed as bad as everyone thought. 70 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,480 Bond yields are still pushing higher, but that's a bit of a 71 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,160 risk. You had Jamie Dimon came out and 72 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,120 said prepare for 5% plus on the 10 year, which I think would be 73 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,400 pretty high. And then we've had yeah, gold 74 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,360 going higher as well. So a relatively supportive 75 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,800 backdrop, I would say for for crypto, but just some worries 76 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,600 about if bond yields are really going to cause some pain here. 77 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,520 For crypto specifically, it was another day, I think of ETH 78 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:10,800 broadly outperforming. We've had, as Tyler pointed out 79 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:16,519 this morning, we've had continual inflows into the ETFs 80 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,000 actually outpacing the Bitcoin ETFs, which is kind of wild. 81 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,960 We haven't seen that for a long, long time, just over 400 82 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,360 million. It's I think it's ten straight 83 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,520 days of inflows. Bitcoin, Bitcoin is looking 84 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,560 pretty sorry, ether is looking pretty good here. 85 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,640 Just in terms of flows based in terms of actual headlines. 86 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,480 Yesterday there were some headlines that that the E 87 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,160 foundation is going to be restruct. 88 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,160 There's been a lot of commentary around this. 89 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,200 If you go to DC investor actually middle comment. 90 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,680 The first tweet that shows up is just Mendo's. 91 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,600 You can't make this up, right? This is such a good timeline 92 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,080 here. So you're saying DC investor? 93 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,160 Yeah, he actually made a good post yesterday, which is, 94 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,400 remember, they have made some changes here. 95 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,040 But go down. No, maybe go down a little bit. 96 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,080 Down, down, down. He's been twitting a lot 97 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:19,320 recently, obviously. Down, down, down, down. 98 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:24,440 There we go. Yeah, even extremely long time 99 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,440 Ethereum found the ethos can barely comprehend how much the 100 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,080 Ethereum foundation has changed in the last few months. 101 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,800 Most waiting for some kind of catch or a stick stick in the 102 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,320 eye. I don't think either are coming. 103 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,160 The org is radically transformed and is adopting a laser bogus 104 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,400 and pushing you forward. If long time E fans can can even 105 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,720 get crocked this and I'm sure the broader market still has no 106 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,800 clue full speed ahead. I think what we're seeing here 107 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:52,200 is like they are listing and they get, they are now putting 108 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,840 in a more aggressive team for change. 109 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,200 So there were comments yesterday from italics saying that we won 110 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,440 a 10X basically ETH on a range of metrics over the next few 111 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,600 years. And then now they're putting in 112 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:09,240 place these sort of core ETH devs in a more with more power, 113 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,800 I would say. So there's there's changes to if 114 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,320 you should go to the ETH and yeah, there we go. 115 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:17,200 They had this big blog post. The main things is that they're 116 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:22,360 putting like a different team of Cordevs in charge, which I think 117 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,280 is going to be relatively beneficial. 118 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:31,240 The main person is this Dankrad Feist guy supported by Dankras 119 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,720 Feist. And yeah, people are like very, 120 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,640 very bullish on the idea that this is now going to be that 121 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,720 pushes it forward. And, and what we've always kind 122 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:43,880 of lacked before is that they've taken a step back, right? 123 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,840 Like, and then they haven't really been part of that BD 124 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:48,240 stuff that we've spoken about this team teams like a team 125 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,600 that's going to be a bit more focused on stuff that's going to 126 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,720 push forward the the BD side of of the chain too. 127 00:06:54,840 --> 00:07:01,560 So yeah, just generally, just generally some bullish, bullish 128 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,720 sentiment coming out. I beat there, but we did see a 129 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,440 rally kind of across the board. Hyper liquid also obviously is 130 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,880 the is the 1L1 beating every everything there. 131 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,240 They got a spot listing for finance US or at least said that 132 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,200 they will be getting one in the future, which is pretty wild 133 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,960 that finance US got that list is has decided to list them. 134 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,720 I I didn't even think they would ever list them, but they have. 135 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,600 After Coinbase, right pressure came out from on the Coinbase 136 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,680 side, no. Exactly. 137 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,640 So you now have major exchanges in the US looking to list them, 138 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,120 obviously finance I think in hyper liquid and kind of 139 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,720 somewhat of a baffle. So interesting to see where that 140 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,200 one kind of goes, but Hyper Liquid's definitely been one of 141 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:40,560 the main main. Wins. 142 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,000 Definitely outperforming here. Yeah, yeah. 143 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,240 What is it? Up what, 37 to 4? 144 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,720 Reverse the Clementa curse. So it's it, I would say it's ETH 145 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,960 and ETH beta. So you've had you had big Wicks 146 00:07:51,960 --> 00:08:01,280 up in like ETH memes are they Athena all had a good day today 147 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:07,920 and interestingly, on the Solana side, WIF has been the biggest 148 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,200 gain at WIF looks like it's about to reclaim a billion 149 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,280 dollars which it. Is. 150 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,480 Which is now starting to catch up the fuck up, which is pretty 151 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,400 interesting. Yeah, like a big, big move kind 152 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,520 of across the board there in, in a, in a number of different yeah 153 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,160 key EF based coins. And then Solana, I think was 154 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:34,200 dominated by by like Whiff, which has had like a few Kols 155 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,679 kind of going after it, which has been which has been good to 156 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,679 see. Yeah, I see. 157 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,280 Frankly, just looks like it's about to print a double digit 158 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,080 kind, although hopefully. Yeah, you know. 159 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,080 We still have a a number of different people looking saying 160 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,120 they're going to raise to buy Bitcoin. 161 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:56,280 Interestingly, Sailor is going to do another craft share 162 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,880 offering that got some like semi fun on the timeline. 163 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,960 I think it's going to going to raise 250 million. 164 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,400 There's some, there's another firm in Hong Kong retail, 165 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,360 Logitech I think is the name. It's going to buy 1.5 billion of 166 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,360 Bitcoin. And then you start to see Tether 167 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,800 move it's Bitcoin to this new vehicle, 21 Capital. 168 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:19,360 It's moved 37,000 Bitcoin to this new vehicle now, which is a 169 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,960 pretty wild pretty wild move. There was another company that 170 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,440 said it was going to go out and buy Seoul yesterday class over 171 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,800 so they're going to raise 500 million Seoul. 172 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,000 So this is now a bit of a trend, but like crypto treasuries from 173 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,200 all these all these companies remember like this people don't 174 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,640 really know why they've started and why it's been so aggressive. 175 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,280 If you remember, it was the, IT was all the, the accounting 176 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:50,520 changes that we saw last year that that that was it. 177 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,480 Sailor at the time, yes, Sailor was very vocal like this is 178 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,640 going to be a big change that they can mark them to market 179 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,920 essentially. That has allowed a lot more 180 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,760 companies now to explore this. And it feels like it's going to 181 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:08,080 be that's going to be with us for a while, you know, going to 182 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,680 be with us for a while. So good across the board, 183 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:18,080 probably best for hyper liquid Ethernet beta and then all the 184 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,800 stuff I would say is a bit mixed. 185 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,200 OK, perfect. Good outlook here. 186 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,080 Looking good. I think, you know, I feel like 187 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,680 we were looking bottom, but I'm always called, I am always 188 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,600 scared to call bottom there and I'm definitely not calling it 189 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,640 out season by any means. So so we'll just wait, but love 190 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,000 the news on Ethereum. We'll dive deeper into all the 191 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,160 theorem news, thoughts and all that stuff in about 15 minutes. 192 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,160 Would jump S but super bullish on the ecosystem really waking 193 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,120 up here and and and making a move. 194 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,080 I think it's kind of we've talked about this before. 195 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,400 Guys like that meme, like do something, you know, the stick 196 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,240 man like and The thing is doing right. 197 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,320 And so now it's like a restructure and this and that. 198 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,680 So I think definitely pay attention to that and what's 199 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:04,480 going on in on the Ethereum side there. 200 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,360 All right, Tyler, let's get a quick fire through what you got 201 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:14,560 for us. Today. 202 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:22,440 Yeah, folks. Crypto majors nice little 203 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,120 rebound after some China tariff relief. 204 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,320 We have 8th leading the way up 4 percent. 2620 Bitcoin at one O 5 205 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,200 three hype leading all it's up 15%. 206 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,120 What a rebound on a lot of overlap with Mando's headlines. 207 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,440 I'll go through them again quickly. 208 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,680 The theorem foundation announced protocol that's their new 209 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:42,280 initiative to focus on scaling the L ones and L twos plus a 210 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,640 better user experience along with a change in leadership. 211 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:50,040 Hong Kong based retar writer Logitech $1.5 billion in Bitcoin 212 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,840 to buy Michael Saylor strategy announced a new IPO for standard 213 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,320 STRD perpetual stock offering. I think starting with 250 214 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,760 million to buy Bitcoin, but they can of course raise more 215 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:05,200 Metaplanet got to 8888 Bitcoin and also achieving a 225% yield 216 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,800 over the past year. So it's one strategy is working 217 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,520 at least so far. Mando mentioned the Tether news 218 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,840 moving to 21 capital. Another piece of Tether news, 219 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:18,880 they announced XAUTO tokenized gold, Tether is tokenizing gold 220 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,840 and now on the TON blockchain, they plan to go multi chain with 221 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,120 that product. We also saw Circle up its IPO 222 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,720 offering after interest from BlackRock, they're now looking 223 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,400 to raise up to 900 million in a $7.2 billion valuation. 224 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,120 So that raised target is going higher. 225 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,560 And then somewhat negative news Meta shareholders resoundingly 226 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:45,320 rejected their Bitcoin treasury proposal 95% no vote on that so 227 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,920 Mehta will not be acquiring Bitcoin anytime soon in token 228 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,360 handover protocol news, Rob Hood announced the acquisition of 229 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,840 Bitstamp that is officially complete. 230 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,680 We knew about this for a few months, but now it's gone 231 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,760 through giving them more than 50 global crypto licenses a new 232 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,200 crypto client base infra and this crypto as a service product 233 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,400 targeting institutions. Gandhi solves first ever ERC 20 234 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,240 loan alone against a a a token holding Guess what the token was 235 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,800 wrecked. So wrecked. 236 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,760 Making some history over on Gandhi in Clanosaurs getting an 237 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:21,280 animated TV series 39 episodes, 7 minutes long aimed at kids 238 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,400 6:00 to 12:00. So that's going to be an 239 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,920 interesting one to watch. And then Rex, of course we got 240 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,400 to bang the drum one more time that drink cell goes live here 241 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,280 in about 100 minutes so 12:00 PM Eastern. 242 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,120 Make sure you're ready for that 20. 243 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:34,360 Minutes sell out. Five minutes. 244 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,440 Public go USA. USA is going to go. 245 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:39,840 Team Europe. Now let's go Europe. 246 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,360 We will see rounding this out AI was up five percent, 10.3 247 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,000 billion. The leaders were green, slightly 248 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,960 green Splat and AXR we're topping over about 25% each meme 249 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,440 coin leaders we're very green Pepe leading the way up 10% 250 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,360 width of 15% SPX up 10% walls coin that ecosystem was up. 251 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,440 It rebounded back to 140 million and and then one of their eco 252 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,760 tokens clad one of the top movers on the day up about 150% 253 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,640 to 16,000,000. So big move there loud down only 254 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,520 seeing below 6,000,000 now as they've been talking about 255 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,680 perhaps changing some of the the levers and measures in that 256 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:18,840 experiment. So we'll see where that 257 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,040 continues to go. Other than that, couple pieces 258 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,240 of NFT news. Moon birds continue to grind up 259 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,080 their .9 ETH following the acquisition. 260 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,080 The skull of Lucy set a record yesterday. 120 three $100,000 261 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,760 Record, break and sell for those. 262 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,960 Wow. And right after yesterday's 263 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,360 show, Pixel Vault announced they are auctioning off their 264 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,120 historic set of 16 crypto punks. Those were an icon back in the 265 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,080 2021 NFT era for those who are around or the basis of those, 266 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,800 those comic books, the punks comics, which were also an 267 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,360 incredible trade for anyone who was around in early 2021. 268 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,400 I got some you going on some pixel vault lore tied to Mendo. 269 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,080 So the first collection Mendelinovi did was inspired by 270 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,920 Pixel Vault because they were going to make a comic. 271 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:13,480 I remember the D Jens comic. Pixel Vault was just before D 272 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,440 Jens, yeah. Yeah, literally, like the week 273 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,200 before, the weekends before, like it was the same compressed 274 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,960 time, right? Very, very soon after we were. 275 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,160 We were just. We were just after D Jens 276 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,680 University. Oh no, not. 277 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,640 We don't talk about that. Oh, I remember. 278 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,320 That yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy. 279 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,560 Yetis cool cats. All of those were around the 280 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:36,600 same time. You guys. 281 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,320 Pixel. What a cooked pixel block. 282 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,840 We're the same weekend as bulls on the block. 283 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,280 Bulls on the bulls on the block. I still have some reply guys 284 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:49,000 with bulls on the block PFPS I pixel what was point O 8 E mint? 285 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,520 I went to like 12 ETH. I cooked. 286 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,760 I think I turned like 1 E to like 55 ETH on pixel vault back 287 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,280 then. That was one of my best trades 288 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,400 of my life. Crazy. 289 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,800 Then I lost it all. But that's just part for the 290 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,880 course. Yeah, he was scraping together 291 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,920 8th to buy on secondary like .2 Yeah, then a few months later 292 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,680 live. Despite me banging the drum as 293 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,440 high as I can to either of you own ETH? 294 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,480 I have. I told you I have bought a lot 295 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,800 of Pepe and mug a couple weeks ago and wrecked. 296 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,160 That's the same thing. So what? 297 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,360 I said what do you mean? Any ETH I I would. 298 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,480 Say I have, I have 30 percent, 30% of My Portfolio is allocated 299 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,440 to Pepe Mogrect at the moment. Right. 300 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,000 And the other 70% is far coin. Tyler's got the nod of a man. 301 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,640 He's. Tyler, I'm in the ETH betas, 302 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,240 crypto punks, and a couple ETH memes. 303 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,360 No, I didn't count my crypto punk in there. 304 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,920 No get out of here. Crypto Punks is a beta you're 305 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:48,520 going to die with. That What's our bet on ET? 306 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,480 Come on. But you're not going to sell it. 307 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,800 You're going to don't give it to your kids. 308 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,520 I don't think you bought to trade it. 309 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,800 I can I can still participate in the Root on the East rally. 310 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,120 As everyone's giving me shit now, Yeah. 311 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,720 Wait, hold on, Mando hanging. The drum as hard as I can. 312 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,280 And you guys? Well, Brother, Brother Pepe, you 313 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,440 saw the candle. Brother, brother, you saw the 314 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,440 candle on the Pepe today. You sound like that restaurant 315 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,920 you went to last night. Dude, honestly, you know why, 316 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,240 guys, I have a story for everybody. 317 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,800 Yesterday I was a victim of cultural appropriation for the 318 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,760 first time in my life, and now I understand what it's like. 319 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,200 Mando recommended. By the way, Mando has been 320 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,680 incredible. He's recommended so far, 10 for 321 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,880 10 recommendations in Lisbon. He incredible, incredible. 322 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,800 I got to give him that credit before I bash it, but he sent me 323 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,200 to this place called Cafe Tehran. 324 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,400 My last name is Tehrani. OK, supposed to be in rainy 325 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,840 restaurant. I walk in there, first of all, 326 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,240 it's nothing Iranian on the menu. 327 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,240 It's Arabic and you guys know it's this other, it's pretty 328 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,560 frothy out there. And, and then I said, you have 329 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,040 Kobe Day, which is like our main meal, right? 330 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,840 It's like you go to an American restaurant, like you have the 331 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,480 burger and they go, what's that? They go, what's that? 332 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,640 I was so pissed. So I, I, I accepted the fact 333 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,960 that I was in a different restaurant and it's not a remain 334 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,040 restaurant. So there's no Iranian 335 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,280 restaurants in Lisbon and there's cultural appropriation 336 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,920 man, though yeah, they claim they were Persian restaurant. 337 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,160 I all I said was I think there's an Iranian restaurant around. 338 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,920 There, I'm going to open my own. Don't worry, I'm opening my own. 339 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:21,120 You can. Be partners. 340 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,560 You're welcome to be partners. You can be a silent partner in 341 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:24,880 the restaurant. My mother's going to run it. 342 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:25,960 It's called. It's going to be called Dastan, 343 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,120 just like our parent company here. 344 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:28,960 And yeah, exactly. Ari. 345 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,560 He's like, what the fuck? In the Iranian restaurant 346 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,240 without Kubi Day. That's and thank you, Ari. 347 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,640 He's my fellow person. Middle Eastern food is something 348 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,320 that I have. The weird things that I have not 349 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,280 found very good on Lisbon are Middle Eastern food and Italian 350 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,960 food. There's not that many Italians. 351 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,120 It's OK. The rest is great. 352 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,680 I just, I just had a meeting with actually one of those. 353 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,760 But not that many Italians. And like Middle Eastern is like, 354 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,080 it's like what you said. It's like it's actually some guy 355 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,720 from a completely different country who's decided to do the 356 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,520 cuisine and called himself that. Like every single chef in there 357 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,840 is like full on like white. Yeah. 358 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,320 But like, you know, like, if I go to a Persian restaurant, I 359 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,640 want to see a grandma in the back fucking cooking up, you 360 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,280 know, like, I want to see like, yeah, that's how it is. 361 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,040 Like, you go to a Persian restaurant, it's like, oh, you 362 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,280 know, they were playing Ed Sheeran, bro. 363 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,840 Ed Sheeran. They sang one Iranian song and 364 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:18,800 they're playing this shit all day. 365 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,320 You know? Nothing wrong against Ed Sheeran 366 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,720 Restaurant. There's one of the two Israeli 367 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,480 restaurants. It's like there's one Turkish 368 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,440 and like there's like it's, it is light on on the Levant area. 369 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,680 Let's put that. I'll open it. 370 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,080 I got this. I'll open a Persian restaurant. 371 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,480 You're all invited on me the first time. 372 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,520 Then you got to pay. So back-to-back back to Tyler's. 373 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,400 Back to Tyler's topics. Yeah, we still have a few 374 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,040 minutes before Joe comes in the studio. 375 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,240 What was your, what's your top headlines here, Tyler? 376 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,000 Yeah. Should we talk about the sailor 377 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,360 heading a bit more because I think it always gets people a 378 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,240 little rattled now. Oh yeah, when he makes these 379 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,680 announcements. So the news is he's launching a 380 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,320 new perpetual stock offering. It's Stride. 381 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,520 STRD will be the ticker it's perpetual offering. 382 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,560 Institutional investors select non investors, it looks like 383 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,160 they're going to price at $100 a share going to issue 2.5 million 384 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,800 against 10% preferred Class A of MicroStrategy is how I 385 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,920 understand this. I'm just curious on on Mando's 386 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,840 thoughts here. Is this the type of raise that 387 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,640 we like because it's via equity? That was my general read on it 388 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,600 versus like a lever debt. Yeah. 389 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,520 So it's interesting if you go into the details, they have non 390 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,080 accruing dividends which is quite an important thing like 391 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,160 now what this does, what I do think this is bad for is the 392 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,720 common stockholders of micro traction. 393 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,880 When you when you get when you get a preferred equity offering, 394 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,640 this may go over a top of a lot of people's heads, but it may 395 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,800 not. But preferred means that you 396 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:06,200 will get paid a dividend first. So if anyone's going to get paid 397 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,040 a dividend, you get paid at first, OK. 398 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,600 And they've said you're going to get 10% dividend. 399 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,000 Now they don't have to pay that dividend. 400 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,200 It's a non cumulative dividend. But it's if they are going to 401 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,480 pay a dividend, then they then they have to pay these guys 10%. 402 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,320 And it is also, but it is also equity at the same time. 403 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,960 So it says strategy will not have, will have. 404 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,920 Sorry, Let me just let me strategy will not have any 405 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,040 obligation to pay a regular dividend for any regular 406 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,560 dividend period unless strategy declared such different period 407 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,720 prior to the regular. Yeah, well, yeah. 408 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,520 So there's no dividend interest or other amount will accumulate. 409 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:53,480 So basically it's base, it layers the if you own micro 410 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,080 trashy stock, like I don't particularly love these because 411 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,760 it means that that these guys get paid a dividend and you you 412 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,520 might not. And and that's absolutely fine. 413 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,440 That's kind of actually how this has been designed. 414 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,360 It's not a huge amount like of what I could see. 415 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,600 It's not like it massively changes their leverage. 416 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,720 And I think there's a lot of focus on micro strategy right 417 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,360 now. There's a lot more companies 418 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,480 which will fall before micro strategy. 419 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,880 But this does point to, yeah, like this is the thing right 420 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,440 now. We're going to raise debt to buy 421 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,720 to buy crypto here. And I think it's a little bit of 422 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,560 a worry kind of across the market. 423 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,240 Two major things that you heard from that Bitcoin conference was 424 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,600 we're going to raise debt to buy Bitcoin or sometimes it's press, 425 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,480 but like sometimes it's converts. 426 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,800 And the second thing was Bitcoin lending. 427 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,800 Both of those things is add leverage to Bitcoin and and at 428 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,160 an institutional level. So I think what you're really is 429 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,240 sowing the seeds of quite a quite a horrific downturn. 430 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,400 If you if you saw a sustained period of lower prices, that's 431 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,360 for that way. Perfect. 432 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,120 I totally. I understood everything you just 433 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,880 said. What are you drinking? 434 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,040 What's the drink of torch today, Amanda? 435 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,040 My wife just got this for me. I actually don't know. 436 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:23,240 I think it's like a Chai Chai latte. 437 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,920 Nice, nice. What would we do with otherwise? 438 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,040 Why would I feel like all three of us be fucking dead? 439 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,080 Suddenly a drink appears. Suddenly a fruit bowl appears. 440 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,360 Or else I would feed myself. Did anyways. 441 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,960 All right, so that's great. I see. 442 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,920 I see Joe in in the studio. Just a reminder to everyone, 443 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,200 we're live on audio, but this show is really more of an visual 444 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,240 experience. Let's put it this way. 445 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,360 So Joe will be joining us on video. 446 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,200 I see you in the studio, Joe, 10 seconds exactly. 447 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,920 So we've posted Tyler Mando and I and from our on our pages, 448 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,720 respective pages of broadcasting. 449 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,360 But you can also catch the show on YouTube, which I kind of 450 00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:04,240 think it's a better experience and soon on other platforms. 451 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,720 Next week, we've got some changes coming to the show, 452 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,600 which are for the better for everyone. 453 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,400 But anyways, for now, you can catch us on Rug Radio, YouTube 454 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,360 or on natively. Anyways, let's get the man 455 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,400 himself, Joe Lubin, in the house. 456 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:18,920 Joe, how you doing today? Good morning. 457 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:20,880 How you doing? Hey, guys. 458 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,240 I'm doing great, fantastic, fantastic. 459 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,240 Actually, Joe, I just left a meeting with one of your team 460 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,160 members on the minimize side this morning. 461 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,800 He says hi. Very cool. 462 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,200 Yeah, Alexander. Where Where are you today? 463 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,200 I am in Lubin. No, no. 464 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,160 Very nice. Yeah, I'm in Lisbon. 465 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,840 There's an NFC Lisbon conference. 466 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,480 A lot of us are out here, Benny. I know Benny been trying to get 467 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,960 you to buy a pumpkin. I know you're the Sam spread. 468 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,560 Did Benny whisper to mention that first thing? 469 00:24:53,880 --> 00:25:00,040 Benny's the whisper, you know, punk masters, Sam Sprat Whisper. 470 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,880 But we'll talk about that a little later. 471 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,800 We'll talk about that a little later, Joe. 472 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,360 Yeah, a lot of people, as a matter of fact, we're saying, 473 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,000 hey, we got to get Joe Crypto punk, but we'll keep that 474 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,920 chatter for later. We got a few options for you. 475 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,800 We're going to show you on the show anyways. 476 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,000 Yeah, we're we're putting in, you know, from from from from 477 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,240 all over the world at the moment. 478 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,520 Joe, it's a pleasure to have you listen. 479 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,520 I don't think we need any introductions here when it comes 480 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,400 to Julian in the world. The crypto. 481 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,640 I mean there Co founder, founder consensus which you know, 482 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,800 obviously you got a lot going on there and most recently you 483 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,600 became a board member. Chairman of the Board. 484 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,560 Chairman of the board of Sharp Link Gaming, which we're going 485 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,040 to be talking about here. Congratulations, Joe. 486 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,840 I mean, why don't you give us maybe a TLDR of this new 487 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,440 announcement which we've been talking about every day. 488 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,040 We were going to go in depth into it Yesterday we said Nope, 489 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,160 hold your horses. Joe's coming on tomorrow to talk 490 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,200 about it. So why don't you take us through 491 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,040 the Sharp Link Gaming, you know, and the billion dollars that was 492 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,720 raised in order to acquire Theorem. 493 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,360 Yeah. So I'll keep it brief because 494 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,000 you guys probably have questions and and we can riff. 495 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:13,480 But we've, we've been doing research for about 6 months to 496 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,800 decide whether we wanted to get into this kind of investment or 497 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:24,120 or this kind of opportunity. We been scanning lots of 498 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:29,440 different ways of doing it, scanning different target 499 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:39,320 companies that we could either reverse merge into or or lead a 500 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:44,720 major investment round into. And Sharplink popped up a very 501 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,400 small number of weeks ago and we've been sprinting to get it 502 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,920 done. We felt it was going to be 503 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,960 incredibly valuable to be pretty much the first major mover. 504 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,240 Consensus thinks of itself, has always thought of itself as the 505 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,200 Ethereum company. More more recently, we're in 506 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,440 Ethereum first pan ecosystem company because we've got to 507 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:13,080 provide infrastructure to the the whole reasonable 508 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,280 decentralized protocol ecosystem. 509 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:21,200 Lots of great projects beyond Ethereum, but of course, all 510 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,400 roads flow to and, and through theorem. 511 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,280 And so we identified this opportunity. 512 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,000 We said, let's go. We talked to lots of investors 513 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,640 and it was just an unbelievable Sprint. 514 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,880 Our Corp dev team, our legal team, our finance team did the 515 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:46,000 most heroic thing. Days, nights, weekends, and we 516 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,160 got it done. And it it. 517 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:48,920 I don't know if you noticed but it popped. 518 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,400 We definitely know this. Yeah, we were, we were very 519 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,600 pleased with the initial performance and and structurally 520 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:08,400 we think there's no reason why it shouldn't just keep going for 521 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,920 maybe years, maybe decades. The, the way, the way society 522 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:20,000 moves there, there are deep structural things that drive 523 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:26,200 certain financial flows. So in the US you've got 524 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:36,400 treasuries that for 30 years grew lower and lower in their 525 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,560 interest rates and and appreciated for a very, very 526 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,440 long time. So lots of trading strategies 527 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:50,840 were based on that Japanese carry trade, decades of of 528 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,840 borrowings, yen and and investing in, in different 529 00:28:54,840 --> 00:29:00,080 higher yielding trades. And we strongly believe that 530 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,720 there's a paradigm shift underway to a more decentralized 531 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,880 world economy society. And we think that's going to be 532 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,600 pretty good for what I think is the major productive asset in 533 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,280 our ecosystem. Ether should be quite good for 534 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,440 Bitcoin, should be pretty good for a whole bunch of other 535 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,960 tokens. But I think the Big E will end 536 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:31,560 up being Ether And, and you can imagine with the structure of 537 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:37,480 these kinds of companies, these kinds of treasury strategy 538 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:43,360 companies, I could imagine that if you invest in it, that you're 539 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,520 going to keep growing the amount of ether that you hold in, in 540 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,040 each of your shares. And, and the price of ether is 541 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,480 likely to like this is not financial advice. 542 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,280 I'm not licensed, let's say financial representative. 543 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,520 I, I am licensed. I'm self licensed as an, an 544 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:11,200 Ethereum Rep, so I I can talk about Etherium and it, it seems 545 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,640 just enormously likely that that the Etherium ecosystem will 546 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,920 continue to grow. I think we're at our, our 547 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:23,520 broadband moment now. And, and I guess one more 548 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,760 exciting thing is that the Tradfi meets Defy. 549 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,200 Yeah, we're going to, we're going to be on earnings calls, 550 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,360 we're going to be on CNBC and Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal 551 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:38,680 and bug radio and, and, and we're going to be talking about 552 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,000 Ethereum and Defy. And we're going to be explaining 553 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,920 it to Tradfi professionals because they're going to be 554 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,080 seeing people making money in this particular strategy. 555 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:55,280 And there's nothing more motivating to learn about the 556 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,600 intricacies of Ethereum and Defy than a really compelling 557 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,920 strategy for Wall Streeters to to make money. 558 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,320 With Yeah, well, I love that. Go ahead, Mandel. 559 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,160 Lightly, so is the is the theme because I think a lot of the 560 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,920 Bitcoin treasury companies have just they're just buy and hold. 561 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,360 They're more like, you know, the more commodities traders, almost 562 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,000 unladen trading, they're just, they're like gold vehicles 563 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,240 almost you, you, you consider this to be a productive asset. 564 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,120 So you're going to be doing a range of different things with 565 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,520 it. Yeah, absolutely. 566 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:32,720 So, so Bitcoin yield, as Michael Saylor has defined it, is you 567 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:42,280 buy some MSTR and you rely on them to grow the number of 568 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:48,400 Bitcoin that you have access to through your shares on, on a 569 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,800 fully diluted basis. So, so you're hoping Bitcoin 570 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,720 goes up and, and you're expecting that you're going to 571 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,880 get more and more Bitcoin for for each share that you own. 572 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:07,320 So we'll certainly do that, but staking, restaking defy at 573 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:15,600 prudent risk levels, we will add ether yields to this other form 574 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,920 of yields that they've defined. So it's a productive asset in 575 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,960 that sense. It's also productive because 576 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,240 people use it to power applications and store data on 577 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,880 the Etherium network. At some point, some points in in 578 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,000 our evolution when there's a lot of activity on the ether 579 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:41,120 network, it turns into an ultrasound asset where we're 580 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,200 burning it and deflating the monetary supply. 581 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,200 So. No, I think that's super 582 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,960 interesting. I mean, that's kind of how I was 583 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,000 hoping even say that would go down the route of like actually 584 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,720 owning a yield in the Bitcoin, but it hasn't really happened. 585 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:54,720 With any of these companies, yeah. 586 00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:02,640 But he he's very clear and strict about saying something 587 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,600 and doing it. He wants to be extremely 588 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:11,000 reliable for his investors. And so when he says these things 589 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,320 are going to be in cold storage, I'm never moving them. 590 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,520 I'm just going to keep accumulating. 591 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,520 I believe it. I don't think he's fancy. 592 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,120 How many chairs do you sit on, Joe? 593 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,920 How many chairs? I'm sitting on one chair right 594 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:26,840 now. I love that. 595 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,040 I love one chair, one chair that that has always, that has in. 596 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,560 Historically, this is my this is my chair. 597 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,760 There you go, I love it. I love it. 598 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,760 Then I know Tyler's got some questions. 599 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,040 I'll say my second question would just be like, why do you 600 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,680 think it's taken this for people to start to get E like you could 601 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,600 invest in a vehicle like this. You can invest in an ETH based 602 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,800 fund, right? Like, but it seems like this has 603 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,240 been the best way to do it. Like almost take over the 604 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,840 strategy of an existing stock. It's some sort of public listed 605 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,080 equity and be like, right, we're going to we're going to now do 606 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,400 this. Like, why is this been the thing 607 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,000 that's really unlocked Wall Street, you think? 608 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:12,120 So first I mentioned earlier that I feel like we're now at 609 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,120 our our broadband moment in the Etherium ecosystem. 610 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:20,400 And what I mean by that is more about the functionality of the 611 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,040 network. So we with the roll up centric 612 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:30,760 road map, which is going incredibly well, we've enabled 613 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,400 us to grow horizontally and vertically in terms of 614 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,880 scalability. So infinite scalability like the 615 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,280 Internet, you can just add new new layer 2 networks. 616 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,920 So we can take that new ZKEVM technology, we can enshrine it 617 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,239 in into layer one and, and beat things up that way. 618 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,560 We're affordable, lots of block space for now. 619 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:54,840 The internet's a really big place. 620 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,320 So, so when we start migrating all of web 2 to to web three, 621 00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,960 we're going to need lots more block space. 622 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,080 But it, it's quite affordable right now. 623 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,400 Things are pretty usable. They're they're going to get 624 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,000 delightfully usable when we have a is in our wallets and and in 625 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,800 user interfaces and and in the United States of America. 626 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,120 It was it was dangerous to hold tokens. 627 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,920 Your GC wouldn't allow you to hold tokens. 628 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,880 Your GC certainly would have laughed you out of the room if 629 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,680 you suggested that you issue a token. 630 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,240 If you're a normal enterprise, Oregon traditional financial 631 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:34,560 institution, if you're a brilliant application developer, 632 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,760 it was kind of crazy to decide to build in our ecosystem in the 633 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:47,120 United States of America until essentially the chair Gensler 634 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,120 was effectively removed from gaslighting our industry and and 635 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,080 trying to kill slow or or Co opt our industry. 636 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:05,280 But now we have all those structural things handled so 637 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,280 that people can start building applications for for end user 638 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,120 consumers for end user enterprises. 639 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,720 So, so that's on. And more directly to your 640 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:24,720 question, again, it's about identifying a strategy that 641 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:29,880 captures Wall Street interests that that sounds sort of cool 642 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,200 and edgy and and enormously profitable. 643 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:40,040 And so that that's when the the financial geeks get interested. 644 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,680 If they get interested, it, it starts to take on a buzz. 645 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,600 How do you think, how do you think about the messaging to the 646 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,680 Wall Street crowd versus perhaps more of a crowd? 647 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,800 Like are you changing some of your emphasis points? 648 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,160 I'm curious how you how you think about that as you're about 649 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:03,680 to go on a road tour. Well, I, I like to talk about 650 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,080 Ethereum and the financial stuff is very interesting as well, but 651 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,880 it's really the capabilities of Ethereum that drives all of 652 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:17,000 this. The Internet a long time ago 653 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:22,360 came along and it changed information, changed the travel 654 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,520 industry, it changed the journalism industry. 655 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,080 So many different industries were scaled by digital 656 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,680 transformation. Pretty much 1 industry managed 657 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,360 to avoid that. There there's been very little 658 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,240 innovation in the financial services industry. 659 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:46,280 So they, they put some, some websites in front of their, 660 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,800 their terrible account structures and they innovative 661 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,840 on some financial instruments that they used to exploit lots 662 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,400 of people. But but really the financial 663 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,160 industry has not seen the same kind of transformation that the 664 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,840 the Internet brought to so many different industries. 665 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,120 But that's on now there's structural fatigue in the 666 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,960 financial system. It's breaking, you know, we're 667 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,640 we're at the end of a super cycle effectively and the 668 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,720 excesses of the financial industry, the financialization 669 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:27,320 of America, the hauling out of of the middle class in America 670 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:34,640 is leading us all to essentially the end of this super cycle. 671 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:41,840 And and a Strauss and how sense and we are decentralized 672 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:47,600 protocols are the answer to bringing forth a new global 673 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,640 financial system. There is no global financial 674 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,960 system right now. It's a, it's a whole bunch of 675 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:58,120 solid financial systems Scotch taped together via correspondent 676 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,040 banking relationships. And and now we have this thing 677 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,080 that that some people put together a decade or so ago in 678 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:14,160 terms of Bitcoin etcetera. And now it's a a global real 679 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:19,520 time hyper connected financial system with programmable money, 680 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,000 programmable financial instruments where where anybody 681 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:27,920 can actually build something and deploy it and and use it, total 682 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,520 transformation. I think it's an easy pitch for 683 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,160 those who understand the the vision and the mission and maybe 684 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,720 drilling into Ethereum and the Ethereum Foundation. 685 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:40,040 We had some big news yesterday with the announcement of the 686 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,320 protocol initiative and now this new refocus on scaling the L 687 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,440 ones, the L twos and user experience. 688 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,600 Curious for your reactions to that and perhaps like the timing 689 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,600 of you spinning up the the Sharp Link vessel alongside this 690 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,920 recent pivot from the Ethereum Foundation. 691 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:04,240 It seems to. So it's a recent pivot in the 692 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:08,040 sense that the people became aware of it, but things have 693 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,960 been in process for for around a year. 694 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,440 There was a lot of malaise in our ecosystem. 695 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,640 Bitcoin was doing great because it has a clear value proposition 696 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,000 and a clear message. Solana was doing great because 697 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:32,880 Sam destroyed the protocol, crashed the price down to what 9 698 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,320 bucks or something like that. And then it found this meta that 699 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:43,080 it leaned into and you know, so mean coins are are very cool 700 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:48,120 innovation, but which is a lot of disturbing stuff that that 701 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,560 went on around meme coins. So in in a theorem as well, but 702 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:58,120 but that at a smaller scale. So they wrote that up nicely and 703 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,200 the theorem in the middle child was sitting there no planning 704 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,040 for the future. We we're trying to do all the, 705 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,840 all the things right and build epic infrastructure for our 706 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:15,520 broadband moment. And so ether price goes down and 707 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,760 there were the follows price. So everybody was slightly later 708 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,680 Ether bags starts pointing at everybody else and saying you 709 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,640 suck, this is your fault etcetera. 710 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,760 But really things were going great in the Etherium ecosystem. 711 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:34,680 We we took this ZKEVA technology that we been pioneering at layer 712 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,840 2 and we're now bringing it into layer one consensus hopes to 713 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,320 participate in that. We're really excited about that 714 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,920 direction. So layer one, we'll get really 715 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,680 beefy. We'll have lots of blobs. 716 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,880 Layer twos will be incredibly important. 717 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,480 I actually think that they will be important for scalability, 718 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,120 but I think they'll be more important for diversity of the 719 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,360 different kinds of databases that that sit on top of layer 1. 720 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,560 You know, all the layer twos are essentially databases with, with 721 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,800 functionality and, and in terms of the political constructs. 722 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:17,120 So we're talking to major sovereign wealth funds and banks 723 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:23,160 in a particular country who are interested in how do we build 724 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,160 infrastructure in the Etherium ecosystem. 725 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,440 So I'm like, and they're thinking, OK, we got to build 726 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,640 our own. Wow. 727 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,920 Etherium because we're worried that the Americans might control 728 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,840 the Etherium network. And I said that's not a problem, 729 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,400 that's not going to happen. But still you probably want to 730 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,640 build some of your infrastructure at the Etherium 731 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,400 layer one and you probably want your own constructed layer 2 so 732 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,680 you can have a nation state layer 2 and then all the 733 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,000 different political subdivisions. 734 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,040 So I think that's how our ecosystem is going to evolve 735 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,600 with Layer 2 as being a an organizational construct. 736 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,840 So there's a sovereign country looking into doing. 737 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,200 Something like that. There's a very big, big country. 738 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:11,040 Yeah, exactly. Mando, are you hearing this? 739 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,840 Hearing this? Mando's been bull bull posting, 740 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,440 bull talking Ethereum Joe on this show. 741 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,960 Awesome. 30 minutes per day out of the hour we have. 742 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,200 So, so music is it so? I think there's been some very 743 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:27,680 concrete changes. I think some of the stuff. 744 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,800 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And let me answer. 745 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,840 Let me answer your question. So I think organically 746 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,320 everybody's feeling a lot better about stuff. 747 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:43,280 The changes that were announced in the EF have been wonderful, 748 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:50,600 the access, the proactivity. So I, I've had discussions with 749 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,120 leadership and, and I'm so excited with, with what the EF 750 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,720 is doing. Frankly, I was, I was pretty 751 00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:01,080 comfortable that the EF has been doing great things all along. 752 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,360 I do think that I'm more proactive. 753 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,560 Posture by the EF is valuable. I think it's the right time for 754 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,240 that. But I think the EF has done a 755 00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:19,400 great job for a very long time. And, you know, all along we've 756 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:25,560 been building and we just keep going and the world is catching 757 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,640 up to us. Yeah. 758 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,320 I think, I think the main thing that's got me more bullish is, 759 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,640 is this I, I think you, I mean Salon has had a great cycle in 760 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,880 terms of activity. You can't really deny that it's 761 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,200 really, really did lead, lead in terms of that for a for a long 762 00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:45,120 period of the cycle. What got me what I, I think it's 763 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,080 got me more more bullish has been firstly, just like the 764 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:54,080 changes around how we're going to view the layer one for fees. 765 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,360 I quite liked the ultrasound narrative. 766 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:57,960 I thought was a very strong one for Ethan. 767 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,720 It's kind of drifted away, but looks like it might come back. 768 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,760 And if I look at the top block chains out there, activity is 769 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,680 only one real measure of success, like Bitcoin. 770 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,800 Bitcoin doesn't have as much activity as most of the others, 771 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,080 It's really just a store of value. 772 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,840 XRP seemingly have a crazy high valuation, doesn't really have 773 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,240 much going on there. Best marketing project in the 774 00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:23,280 history of the world. I actually think the value of of 775 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,720 a cryptocurrency is often down to that store of value or like 776 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:30,960 it being seen as, yeah, just like a productive asset. 777 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,920 Like you just said. I think the ETH, even if it 778 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,560 doesn't capture all the activity and that moves to the L ones, if 779 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,360 it can recapture that, this is a really good store of value, 780 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,560 which can still be productive. I think that is where it can 781 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,440 become very strong. And I think the changes to the 782 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,440 EF have really just been the icing on the cake where I felt 783 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,080 like, OK, this has now shifted and it's been beaten down for a 784 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,520 long time and now it's got the narrative back. 785 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,800 But you can feel it if it's got the narrative back. 786 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,240 And I think now it can hopefully use that because it has all the 787 00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,040 trad fire rails. What you just did, you're going 788 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,080 to be the first of many, right? You must know there must be 789 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,240 about 10 other companies. Now the reason why you want to 790 00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:09,520 do it so quick is because everyone's seen what just 791 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,240 happened to the shop in stock and go like, right, we're going 792 00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,680 to do the same thing. And ETH is probably the best 793 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,880 asset to do it with given the rails that it has. 794 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,600 So it feels as though there could be now this institution. 795 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,120 Like and exactly. And while everybody was taking 796 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,000 shots at at Ethereum, it was still by far the biggest 797 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,320 ecosystem out there. It still had the bulk of the 798 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,840 real world assets, the bulk of the stable coins. 799 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,880 It has not all of D5, but a giant proportion of D5. 800 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:51,720 So I would say that the Bitcoin Maxis are really good at talking 801 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:57,880 shit and the Solana Maxis are professionalizing that as well. 802 00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,840 And. And the Ethereum people are 803 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,960 really good at keeping heads down and building because 804 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,000 there's a lot that we need to do now. 805 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,160 There isn't a lot that the Bitcoin people need to do. 806 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,560 They, their protocol. I, I love Bitcoin. 807 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,840 I was a Bitcoiner in early 2011. I'm still a bitcoiner. 808 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:20,760 The Bitcoin protocol is finished and perfect, So what do they 809 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,840 have to do? Well then said they did ruins 810 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,000 and ordinals, but that's another conversation, Tyler. 811 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,960 Ordinals are cool, yeah. Go. 812 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,760 Ahead, Joey, we we run this as a market show as well. 813 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,640 I'm curious for your thoughts on the market as someone who's, you 814 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,440 know, I'm thinking out of years, decades I'm sure, but I'm kind 815 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,000 of curious for your thoughts on the broader crypto market 816 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,880 outlook on then like a one year horizon as well as a four to 817 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,200 five year horizon here. You mentioned the structural 818 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,920 change, the deep structural changes earlier on in our convo 819 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,440 he's carried they elaborate on some of that. 820 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,920 Yeah, So it's probably dangerous to listen to an eternal optimist 821 00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:06,840 like me, but I, I think we're moving into a period where as we 822 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:13,600 we discussed already, the mainstream culture, Wall Street, 823 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,920 all the Wall Street's around the world are are going to have to 824 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:24,280 take notice the existing economy is being reformatted. 825 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,000 I do believe that the United States had to make some changes 826 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:35,720 because a long time ago the United States ended up being the 827 00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:44,120 sole superpower and it was a a kinder period where the US 828 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,080 helped lots of countries we rebuild themselves. 829 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:55,280 The US was very comfortable allowing tariffs in lots of 830 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,560 different countries, essentially paying for the rebuilding. 831 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:08,840 US for strategic reasons made itself world police, established 832 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:16,080 NATO, paid for the bulk of NATO, policed the seas to keep the 833 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:28,240 trade inexpensive via naval transportation and some 834 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:30,880 countries took advantage of that. 835 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,080 One country in particular took extreme advantage of that and 836 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,600 and has been at war with the you know, China's been at war with 837 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:44,520 the United States pretty much declared for a long time doing 838 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,720 some disturbing things. And we need a good healthy 839 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:52,360 relationship with China and every other nation and it and it 840 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:57,360 should be balanced. So the US, we are moving into a 841 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,520 multi polar world and and we need healthy trade relationships 842 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,960 and if the US is going to continue to protect certain 843 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,080 things that should probably get paid some of the costs. 844 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,720 And so with that in the background, we're going to see 845 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:16,560 massive change. We are seeing massive change. 846 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:23,520 And in a multi polar world, you probably want a credibly neutral 847 00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:28,840 platform on which to execute transactions, guaranteed 848 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,680 transactions to maintain relationships. 849 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:39,160 If you if you enter into a treaty currently it's really 850 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,680 easy to just break those things. They're they're not really worth 851 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:46,960 much if you enter into a treaty on the Ethereum blockchain and 852 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,800 you put many billions of dollars at stake and maybe there's a 853 00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,600 maybe there's utility in the United Nations. 854 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:58,560 Maybe the United Nations can help adjudicate when when there 855 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,880 are conflicts with respect to a smart contract. 856 00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:07,280 So if, if there's a strategic arms limitation smart contract 857 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,800 that both parties put a whole lot of money into it and one 858 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,520 party breaks that agreement, then they should be slashed 859 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:21,800 massively. So we, we now have the financial 860 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:27,800 means to to do interesting and healthier geopolitical things. 861 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:33,560 So anyway, total transformation, that's probably going to be 862 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,080 really good for the economy. I believe we're at the end of a 863 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,000 super cycle. I believe we're at the start of 864 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:43,120 a new super cycle with the new promise, a new system of the 865 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,640 world, new social contracts. And that's going to be really 866 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:53,240 good for for anybody who's coming into the world now or 867 00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:55,440 maybe 10 years from now, because they'll probably be rocky for a 868 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,600 little while. Do you think? 869 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,520 Yeah, go ahead. I was going to ask him maybe a 870 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,080 slightly controversial question, but like there was a lot of talk 871 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,640 maybe in our cycle, which was that, you know, E could could 872 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,600 kind of maybe even overtake Bitcoin with this like this 873 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,440 productive asset capability. Do you still have that that 874 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,760 belief? Do you still think E has got a 875 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,800 better proposition potentially to the world here in terms of 876 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,720 value creation? Yeah. 877 00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:28,400 So I think of Bitcoin as gold 2.0. 878 00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:34,840 I think it will probably have that use case probably for a 879 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,040 long time. It seems to be a strong enough 880 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,960 religion at this point so that it'll stick. 881 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:51,240 Ether is somewhere between the world, computer, electricity, 882 00:52:51,920 --> 00:53:02,320 energy, oil or what I what I really like is ether being seen 883 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:06,440 as the most valuable trust commodity on the planet. 884 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:12,920 So information's a commodity. They're different, different 885 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,840 kinds of of promises that can be treated as a commodity, 886 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:24,440 assurances, agreements. We don't really think of trust 887 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:29,680 currently as a commodity, but if you think about the levels of 888 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,320 trust that you need to add to certain situations to make them 889 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,320 more valuable, you could probably come up with a grading 890 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,120 system for different kinds of trust. 891 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:43,800 Satoshi Nakamoto invented this most profound thing, 892 00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:48,120 decentralized trust, the the highest grade trust in the 893 00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:53,000 world, especially if it's on a radically decentralized network. 894 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:57,560 And there's no better trust network than a theorem. 895 00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,480 It can guarantee execution of transactions. 896 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:08,320 And I think of ether now as as the gold standard in trust or 897 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:15,160 highest octane trust, etcetera. So will that be more valuable 898 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,840 than Bitcoin? Seems very likely. 899 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,680 Maybe, yeah, maybe in a that could be, that could be very 900 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,880 valuable. I love that. 901 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,360 That's a great question, Mando. Joy, if you have 5 more minutes. 902 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,800 I think Tyler is just another question on the Metamask front 903 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,720 and some of the cool stuff you guys have been up to. 904 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,320 Would be great to get some of your takes on Metamask and stuff 905 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,120 going on Linnea, but go ahead, Tyler. 906 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:41,640 Yeah, I found a notable the Ethereum Foundation refocusing 907 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,680 on user experience and I think Metamask has been doing the 908 00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,000 same. Yesterday we had the the 909 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,440 announcement the acquisition of of Web 3 auth. 910 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,320 I'm just kind of curious to hear from you about the why that was 911 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,160 strategic kind of what the the focus is right now with 912 00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,040 Metamask. Yeah, so they're awesome that 913 00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,440 they've built some great technology. 914 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:07,160 So it's it's instant onboarding. It's it's ways of recovering 915 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,360 your account if you lose your secret recovery phrase. 916 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,720 They have thousands of of different projects using their 917 00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:22,920 embedded wallet system. So we see it as top of funnel 918 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,760 that the millions of users in those thousands of projects. 919 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,520 We see it as top of funnel with all these different projects 920 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:36,360 that can, you know, instantly put together a quickly skinned 921 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,760 wallet. And then we'll just set up a 922 00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:45,080 Mycelio network underground that enables, if you've got a few of 923 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,680 these wallets, you can connect them into your meta mask or, or 924 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:52,440 if you just want a longer term durable, more secure 925 00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,800 relationship, then easy on boarding from from one of these 926 00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,760 embedded wallets to to your meta mask. 927 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,960 So there's that's the end user perspective. 928 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,280 We're building a an increasingly capable developer stack. 929 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,440 So they'll be a big part of that as well. 930 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,840 I'm curious as well how you're contemplating with the AI agent 931 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,480 revolution or are you, are you contemplating how Metamask will 932 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,280 integrate with perhaps agents? And then Part 2, is Ethereum 933 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,640 going to be the home? There's a lot of. 934 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,800 Yeah. So we're, we're exploring AI 935 00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:37,080 from so many different perspectives. 936 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:43,000 In particular, we do believe that you should be typing to or 937 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:48,560 talking to your Metamask. The Internet is already too hard 938 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:53,760 for us to use. It's exploitative and nobody has 939 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,360 the time to read terms and conditions. 940 00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:00,080 So we just click through stuff and we get regularly abused by 941 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,480 big tech and, and just the business model of the Internet 942 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:09,000 is, is adversarial pretty much. So how are we all going to deal 943 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,280 with this even more complicated version of the Internet? 944 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,400 Smart contracts. Who's going to read smart 945 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,440 contracts? Who's going to read proposals 946 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,240 and Dows? So they can vote on that. 947 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:26,440 It's kind of unreasonable. But if you have a digital twin 948 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,760 AI ally, an agent that coordinates your activities, 949 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,760 it'll know what you care about. You can delegate tasks, you can 950 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:45,080 delegate voting permissions, you can give it allowances and it 951 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,120 can essentially do your bidding on the Internet. 952 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,480 If if you wanted to explain AD 5 protocol, if you wanted to 953 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:56,560 explain what the latest proposal in this Dow means and what it 954 00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:01,520 thinks you should vote, then then it'll do that. 955 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:06,960 So we, we finally have a powerful interface that we trust 956 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:08,360 and we're going to need to own these things. 957 00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:15,120 We, we really don't want a tech to own our interfaces that know 958 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,120 everything about us to, to web 3. 959 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,360 So if we own these things, we can train them. 960 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:28,000 They'll be so first, first we will sort of be their parents in 961 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,800 a sense, training them. Then they will be our mentors 962 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:38,280 and life partners. And so a very, very long running 963 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:46,880 intimate relationship and it in terms of where they sit. 964 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,600 So they're going to get they're going to get smaller and 965 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,120 smaller. I believe there will be large 966 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,600 language models, foundational models in lots of different 967 00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:01,040 societies that understand sub teas and language and culture. 968 00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,160 I think that's going to be important to different nation 969 00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,400 states. But then there will be just 970 00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,680 giant swarms of mixture of experts, agents that that do 971 00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,440 lots of things. I think we'll have a controller 972 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:17,880 that that manages all of that and you probably want it on your 973 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:23,480 own hardware somehow there. There will probably be 974 00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:28,520 blockchain systems that are fast enough and big enough, 975 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:33,080 decentralized storage systems that can house some of those 976 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:34,640 things. So that's a it's a big 977 00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:39,000 technological step, but we definitely have to get away from 978 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,520 centralization in the AI space. If the big tech is able to win 979 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,360 this, then we're all in a lot of trouble. 980 00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,680 Makes a lot of sense. Appreciate all your thoughts. 981 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,840 You're muted. Sorry here you go sorry. 982 00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,880 I know you got a busy schedule Joe listen popular request 983 00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,640 question here. I have to ask for the people you 984 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,240 know when are we going to see a a Joe Lubin crypto punk? 985 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,040 You know you're. Who Who's paying you? 986 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,040 Who's paying you to bug me about punk? 987 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,880 Not enough. I I I know who's paying you. 988 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,680 Node Foundation. Hello, Node Foundation. 989 01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,000 You know, I'm a I'm a good advocate. 990 01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,280 I'm. A they they are awesome. 991 01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:23,200 I'm a big fan of the Node Foundation and I have regular 992 01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,400 conversations with those people, so who knows. 993 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,240 I'm seeing Benny tonight and and he I know he's going to ask me 994 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,120 if I ask you and he had he told me to ask you about the mask you 995 01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,440 I will, I will. I know you bought a mask as well 996 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,720 with from from Sprite that you're involved in the NFT 997 01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,120 ecosystem. So you know, it's, it's good to 998 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,160 see some love on the NFT side. OK, I know it's the 2021 thing. 999 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,840 But we still need my my issue. My issue is that I want if I'm 1000 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:52,800 going to do a PFPII want something unique, something that 1001 01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,360 I'm going to feel good about for a long time. 1002 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,040 So. All right, you heard it here. 1003 01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,360 Everyone start selling your one of ones to Joe Lubin. 1004 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,880 Not too hard, not too hard, Joe. Last question is what's one 1005 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:11,880 thing you're most excited about? I guess, I guess that's on. 1006 01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,400 I think we're we're finally crossing the chasm into the 1007 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:21,040 mainstream financial system, mainstream economy, mainstream 1008 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:26,720 culture. I am at a party in Las Vegas 1009 01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:31,440 Bitcoin conference and Scottie Pippen shows up. 1010 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,960 We chat. He's he's taking pictures with 1011 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:40,280 lots of crypto people. So we we may have arrived. 1012 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:42,600 There you go. We may have arrived. 1013 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,800 Joe Lubin, thank you very much for coming on the Sunday. 1014 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,680 It's a it's a pleasure. Appreciate it all right, all 1015 01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:52,680 right well, that was a lot of fun guys, great interview. 1016 01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,320 We got some oops see Amanda and Amanda had to go. 1017 01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,760 We got we got some some good alpha out of this one Tyler. 1018 01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:00,480 I think that was a successful interview. 1019 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,960 So with that. I'm bold up. 1020 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,960 I can say that. I'm, I'm, I'm rethinking my my 1021 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:12,800 30% portfolio allocation. It's yeah, market's pumping 1022 01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,160 while Joe's talking. He loved that. 1023 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,760 Oh yeah, he's. Ripping on the back of all of 1024 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,680 his words. We need to clip that part where 1025 01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,680 he said a sovereign state is looking the bill on chain on 1026 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,800 Ethereum and we could get the first sovereign state L2. 1027 01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,440 There's no way this has been said before. 1028 01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:34,200 Like I think we got Omar, we got to get clipping ASAP. 1029 01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:35,480 We got to repost this entire interview. 1030 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,240 That was some great Tomorrow we'll probably have some time to 1031 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,840 to to recap and and and go over this interview, which was 1032 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,360 really, really awesome. I'm glad and the market's doing 1033 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:45,960 well right now. So you obviously love to say all 1034 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,400 right, well, Tyler, that was a good one. 1035 01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,080 Good work. Love that you know, Mandel also 1036 01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,320 got involved Here was a great interview with that with that 1037 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:55,360 with that. We'll see y'all tomorrow 1038 01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,320 morning, same time, same place, 10 AM Eastern Standard Time for 1039 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,360 the episode of FOMO Hour on our radio. 1040 01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:01,560 Let's go.