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Good morning, good morning 
everyone, GMGN and welcome to 

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another episode of Promo. 
Our day is Thursday, April 10th,

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2025. 
Folks, another day for the 

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history books is behind us. 
Yesterday, the stock market post

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its biggest daily gain since 
2008, I think arguably the third

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biggest of all time. 
We have the crypto tokens 

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soaring as well. 
Recession odds are dropping. 

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And now the question is, is the 
worst behind us or are we in for

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more pain? 
We're going to break it all down

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on today's show. 
No Faroque, no Mando. 

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Mando is busy actively launching
Ye. 

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I think it's going alive as we 
speak. 

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He might pop in and say hello, 
but in his place we still have 

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Logan and our favorite resident 
statistician, Sam. 

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Jim, how you doing? 
What's up boys? 

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How's my sound going? 
Are we OK here? 

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Yeah, sounds great. 
No issues. 

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Perfect. 
I'm good guys. 

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Good to see you. 
Thanks. 

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Thanks for hopping in. 
I mean, up 12% in the stock 

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market. 
I got a fair bit of money in 

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crypto, but I actually got more 
money in the stock market. 

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So I almost get more vocal when 
the stock does, when the stock 

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market does crazy stuff. 
So crazy week. 

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We're we're in similar boats 
there Logie, with the yellow 

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backdrop which I'm now 
associating with you. 

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I actually like that Neil 
backdrop quite a bit. 

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How are you doing, Jim? 
I'm doing really well. 

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Another beautiful day here in 
Trujillo, Peru. 

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I'm feeling pretty good, can't 
complain. 

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And of course the the market 
bump even if down a bit from the

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yesterday's little peak there 
that just adds adds a little bit

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of fun to the day it. 
Was a fun day. 

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You got to enjoy the green days.
If you can't enjoy the green 

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days, why? 
Why are you even here? 

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Why, why, why show up every day?
Your existence is going to be 

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miserable. 
Folks, what are we talking 

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about? 
On today's show, Trump told 

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everyone to be cool and then a 
few hours later he paused all 

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the tariffs except for China. 
It does seem like the rhetoric 

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might be dialing down. 
There might be a China 

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negotiation on the table. 
We'll talk about that. 

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The European Union agreed to a 
90 day pause. 

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CPI inflation soft print this 
morning. 

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Markets rallying but dipping 
here this morning so we'll talk 

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about that. 
Can we trust the rally or not? 

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Fastest runners on the board 
yesterday prompt huge debut here

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this morning. 
A lot of FUD out there. 

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So we're going to address the 
FUD talk is that a buyer sell 

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this big coin Ponzi keeps 
cooking over on abstract doing 

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shockingly well. 
The Senate confirmed crypto 

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friendly SEC chair Paul Atkins 
Magic Eden made your 

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acquisition. 
They bought Slingshot. 

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A lot of folks thought that was 
one of the best trading apps 

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that we had. 
That was a big acquisition. 

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It pumps Runes Pups is UPS, 
shockingly. 

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We'll see if it pumps Ordinals 
as well. 

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We'll get Sam's thoughts on 
that. 

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We might do a YEEP preview as 
well before we dive in and want 

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to give a shout out to our 
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And I kind of trust in crypto as
recognizable as a visa at the 

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checkout. 
If you want to learn more, 

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follow at wallet connect on X 
and Telegram to stay ahead of 

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00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,600
what's next and our new show 
partner yeetyeet.com. 

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We've got the the ref link 
scrolling at the bottom of the 

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screen. 
Folks, if you want to be 

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Those are going to start next 
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our new partnership. 
With that, let's go ahead and 

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dive into the the market report.
Sims. 

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If you want to play the music, 
I'll do my Mando impression 

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here. 
On FOMO our. 

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Cause the kid can. 
Great to Bastion bears. 

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Love the transition music. 
I was going to clear my head, so

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let's take a look at the board 
here folks. 

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So Bitcoin up 4 1/2% here today.
We're holding right around 

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81,000. 
ETH up 5 1/2%, XRP up 9%. 

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That's the top mover in majors. 
Soul at 1:13, up quite a bit 

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over yesterday, but retracing 
here this morning. 

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If we take a look at the CNBC 
board, so stocks down about two 

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or 3% so far on the open. 
Let's look at the 10 year, 10 

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year is down a decent chunk 
since yesterday it was 4.4 back 

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at 4.3%. 
So those are some of the the key

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numbers out there. 
This the story of course is out 

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of Donald Trump. 
So yesterday paused the tariffs,

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90 day pause to let these 
negotiations start to unfold 

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with one caveat of China, the 
China tariffs, I think we're 

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bumped to 115% or 125 that the 
number is rocketing by the day. 

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The others are down to 10%. 
We saw the EU respond this 

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morning. 
They are going to do a 

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reciprocal pause as well for 90 
days while we start to sort this

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out. 
So some positive news there. 

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The market loved it yesterday. 
We saw massive candles across 

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the crypto board. 
XRP and Seoul were some of the 

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winners. 
Hype was a big winner for coin 

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as well. 
Several stocks soars well, I 

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think MicroStrategy stock was 
one of the the top movers on the

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board yesterday. 
It was up something like 25% 

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giving back some of those gains 
here today as well. 

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But but they were a huge winner.
I think the question is, and 

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we're starting to see these 
takes the morning after everyone

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was euphoric yesterday. 
It felt like at least coming out

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of the doom that we were in. 
But now it has has too much 

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damage already been done. 
So I think that is a question 

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that's on a lot of folks minds 
here this morning. 

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Sam, I'll toss it to you just 
first like high level reactions 

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to what played out yesterday. 
Like were you surprised and how 

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are you feeling on Thursday, 
April 10th? 

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Yeah. 
One thing I do want to say, PO 

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has been in my DMS, asked me to 
come on his MicroStrategy 

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podcast, and I'll say it here. 
I'm going to do it. 

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I'm doing it so we can tell PO 
I'm going on that podcast. 

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He's been asking for a while. 
Mando is on there. 

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I'll go on. 
So yeah, that's that. 

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I'm just getting that out of the
way first. 

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We can cut that and just send 
that over to PO. 

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Look, you know, three months 
ago, a move like this would have

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rocked Donald Trump, you know, 
like a move where he did 

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something in stock markets went 
down 15% in one month. 

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You know, that's the type like, 
you know, the, the, the, the way

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that Trump was talking, the way 
the administration was talking, 

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you know, golden era for America
like, and, and we can't lie that

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like the stock market's part of 
that. 

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And it was certainly part of the
way that he measured his 

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performance in the first term. 
You know, it was very tuned into

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the stock market and we got this
crazy move and, and, and the 

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dialogue shifted from like, you 
know, Navarro and people were 

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saying markets are going to go 
up overtime. 

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But Trump and Besson started 
saying things like this is about

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Main Street, not Wall Street. 
Wall Street's not what we're 

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optimizing for. 
It actually started going 

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antagonistic a bit towards the 
stock market, saying the stock 

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market's about globalists and 
about Wall Street. 

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And I actually started to feel 
like investors were becoming a 

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bit of like an enemy. 
So I was a little worried that 

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he wasn't going to reverse 
course. 

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And that was clearly wrong. 
You know, So I think to me, 

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there's just a huge sigh of 
relief as someone who is an 

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investor, as someone who who 
spends a lot of time in markets,

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that that what we saw was that 
Trump was willing to make moves 

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based on what the tenure was 
doing and based on what the 

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stock market was doing. 
So I think that that was like, 

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to me that that in itself is 
like very positive news. 

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I think the way to push tariffs 
forward, you know, regardless 

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your view of tariffs, I think 
that this way of going forward 

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with starting with 10% for 
everybody, giving it the 90 

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daytime that something of this 
magnitude deserves to get to the

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negotiations where you want is 
simply a better route than the 

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way he, he initially kind of 
proposed on Liberation Day. 

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So I think, you know, I think 
objectively, just rationally, 

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this is a much better approach 
to get a feel. 

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You know, one thing I learned at
Uber is you never know how your 

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ideas are going to impact the 
marketplace. 

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You think you know what it will 
happen, but you have no idea 

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because marketplaces are just 
massive, massive organisms with 

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so many different players. 
So giving starting with 

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something like 10%, but giving 
the marketplace time to sort 

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itself out probably like the 
logistics. 

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Of tariffs have to be difficult.
Like how, what, how does a 

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company in the back end even do 
a 45% tariff to to Thailand in 

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three days Like these are, it 
just strikes me something that 

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needs time. 
So I think from a signaling 

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perspective, I was relieved 
because I came into this 

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administration expecting him to 
be extremely market friendly. 

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I got very doubtful of that two 
days ago. 

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From the way he was talking 
about this market move. 

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And to to see like a bit of a 
reflex in the right direction 

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for markets, I think was it was 
positive and I just think 

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objectively, you know, as we 
embark on this like higher 

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tariff kind of paradigm easing 
in makes a lot more sense than 

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the way we did it before. 
Absolutely. 

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I think that's hard to argue. 
I think folks rooting for that 

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across both sides. 
A lot of follow up questions 

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here 1. 
I think there was somewhat 

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consensus reply like that's the 
art of the deal baby. 

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He, he, he just nailed it. 
Curious for your reactions to 

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the Art of the Deal. 
I mean, I, you know, I, I have a

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hard time seeing what we got 
here. 

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I think, you know, in my dream, 
it's very hard to differentiate 

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because we still don't really 
know exactly what he wants and 

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we don't know exactly like what 
the timeline says he wants is 

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often very, very wrong. 
But you know, if, if the goal 

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here was to get the 10 year 
lower, which was a lot of people

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thought, while the 10 years 
higher than before liberation 

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day, if the goal was to make 
asset prices do well. 

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Well, I, I think our biggest, I 
saw some commentary that like 

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the EU was saying that every day
was hurting the US more than it 

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00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,560
was hurting them because, 
because every day the stock 

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market like was Volvo and, and 
kind of in sham give everyone 

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00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,360
else more leverage. 
So I like it. 

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And it almost feels like that's 
what played out here. 

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It's like our markets tank. 
So he can't. 

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00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,320
So, so he switched. 
It wasn't like there were 

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concessions from other people 
like I what do what, what is it 

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that we got in return from other
folks in exchange for this? 

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So I personally would not say 
that this was like a master 

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class in deal making. 
I I could. 

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Probably wiggle my way into how 
it could be, but that's 

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certainly not my reaction here. 
I the tenure is a lot higher 

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than before it started because 
while we have leverage over our 

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partners, they have leverage 
over us as well. 

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You know, our assets are broadly
owned globally. 

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00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,040
They can dump them, they can do 
certain things and I think we 

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saw that you know and that was a
lot of what got it got got us to

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00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:08,360
the table. 
So, and I say us as America, I 

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know a lot of our our listeners 
aren't American, but for me, 

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00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,520
it's hard to to really look at 
this and. 

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00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,600
Say that we are in significantly
better place than we were on 

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00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,560
Tuesday of last week. 
Yeah, I think that's that's a 

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00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:24,080
fair take. 
I think it's too early to to 

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rate this whole thing as a pass 
or failure. 

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00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:27,720
We were chatting about that 
before the show and that this is

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something that's going to play 
out over months and years. 

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00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:32,760
Oh yeah, you can't say this is a
like that. 

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00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,240
Tariffs are a failure. 
I just say like was Liberation 

225
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,400
Day brilliant deal making like 
that? 

226
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,280
I have a hard time saying that. 
Yeah, I think that's very fair. 

227
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,920
And objectively, I think I said 
a few days ago that the simplest

228
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,680
explanation that was that this 
was a negotiation tactic that he

229
00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:52,000
started extremely high with the 
with intentions of coming down. 

230
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,720
I think that is proving out to 
be the the reality here. 

231
00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,240
The thing I struggle with this 
idea of negotiations, if is if 

232
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,320
you like, it was like with, I 
think of the one with Canada, 

233
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,920
right? 
Like with Canada, you know, we 

234
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,760
like, we, we slapped some 
tariffs on them and then at the 

235
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,720
end of the day, like we got a 
fentanyl SAR in return, you 

236
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,080
know, and then ever said part of
the deal, like the tariffs are 

237
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,560
over. 
If he had called Canada and 

238
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:20,600
said, Hey, we're going to slap 
25% tariffs on you tomorrow if 

239
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,720
you don't give us a fentanyl 
SAR, they would have said, take 

240
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,040
ten of them. 
We will hire 10. 

241
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,520
We don't care. 
Like if people know what they 

242
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,400
can do to get these things done 
ahead of time, I think people 

243
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,480
would do it. 
It's just a lot of like a lot of

244
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,680
the commentary also I've read a 
little bit about kind of their 

245
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,800
negotiation is that they weren't
even sure what would make him 

246
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,120
happy. 
So it's very hard to know like 

247
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,320
what people are getting. 
I mean, Switzerland doesn't have

248
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,520
any tariffs on America and they 
got slapped with big ones. 

249
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,240
Like what are we actually trying
to squeeze from them? 

250
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,400
What are we getting from like a 
lot of this feels more 

251
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,840
theatrical than it feels like a 
deliberate negotiation tactic in

252
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,720
my in my view, because I don't 
even know what the winds are. 

253
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,640
Like if we're getting the Panama
Canal or whatever stuff that we 

254
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,440
actually care about, if we want,
if we're, if we're getting 

255
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:02,280
fentanyl down or stuff that we 
care about, that's one thing. 

256
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,800
But if but what are these wins 
that we're getting? 

257
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,640
Like it just feels very vague. 
Yeah, I think that's fair. 

258
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,160
Objectively more losses than 
wins. 

259
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,040
I'm very, it piqued my interest 
to see the Main Street 

260
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,680
conversation really start in the
last couple days and then a 

261
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,480
quick pivot that benefited Wall 
Street the most. 

262
00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:29,000
And I guess you could argue it 
benefits everyone, but I think 

263
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,720
you mention it, it felt like he 
was attacking markets, 

264
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,400
specifically the stock market, 
but they just caved in to to do 

265
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,640
something to help save the stock
market to a degree. 

266
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:41,880
So like what? 
Which is it? 

267
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:43,880
Main Street and Wall Street are 
very tied. 

268
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,120
I mean, it's like, who's going 
to give these jobs to Main 

269
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,640
Street, You know, You know, if, 
if, if the big corporates are 

270
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,400
have their equity value down 15%
in a month, are they more or 

271
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,320
less likely to build a factory? 
You know, it's like, it's all 

272
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,840
very, I think it's all very 
tied. 

273
00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,160
And I think when you start 
hearing main. 

274
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,760
Street, not Wall Street. 
I think that's like a bit of. 

275
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,600
I'm sure there are scenarios. 
Where Main Street benefits on 

276
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,160
Wall Street doesn't doesn't 
benefit. 

277
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,320
But to me, I hear. 
Populism in that. 

278
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,760
It's like, it's like we don't 
care about this thing that's 

279
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,000
failing. 
We don't care about this thing 

280
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,200
that's rejecting us. 
We care about you like, well, 

281
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:14,640
you care about it. 
It's just rejecting. 

282
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,840
You so you have to kind of shift
your your dialogue a little bit.

283
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,160
Yeah, exactly. 
Logan, I've seen you. 

284
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,280
Not in a long. 
Curiously, I love our reactions 

285
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,680
to all this. 
Yeah, I think stats did a great 

286
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,760
job of breaking it down, the 
signaling, you know, that you 

287
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,560
mentioned this whole Main Street
versus Wall Street and, you 

288
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,840
know, is Wall Street an enemy? 
Like I felt the same sort of way

289
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,040
the last few days. 
Didn't make a lot of sense to me

290
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,440
that this narrative started to 
come out. 

291
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,960
I think in particular from my 
view that best in comment from 2

292
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,360
days ago was the one that like 
spooked me the most. 

293
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,000
But I think yesterday exactly 
was that it was a concession 

294
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,760
towards Wall Street. 
It was which makes, you know, 

295
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,800
those of us on this show and 
many of those watching who have 

296
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,640
investments and who will 
continue to invest feel just a 

297
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,360
little bit better. 
I know there's going to be some 

298
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,640
craziness, of course, tons of 
volatility. 

299
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,840
That's just the way that this 
administration operates. 

300
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,840
But being willing not to run us 
even further into the ground 

301
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,600
without conceding in some way 
that, hey, you know what, this 

302
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,360
might not be the best path 
forward for all parties 

303
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,320
involved. 
Was, was kind of nice yesterday 

304
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,960
so that the sell off today or 
whatever it may be, like I, I 

305
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,400
don't think yesterday was an end
all be all. 

306
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,040
We're out of the woods type 
thing, but it to me it was a 

307
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,200
little bit of a reassurance 
that, you know, I don't have to 

308
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,960
call my mom, tell her to just 
like pack up the four O 1K or 

309
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,040
something like that so we can 
feel a little bit better moving 

310
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,360
forward. 
One non serious thing about the 

311
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,840
Main Street versus Wall Street 
was there were some excellent 

312
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,840
tweets yesterday at the 
conclusion of that. 

313
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,800
Kind of the like, you know, FU 
Main Street type things. 

314
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,240
I can't remember the quotes off 
the top of my head. 

315
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,200
I just remember laughing and 
giggling at a few of them. 

316
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,840
Yeah. 
Here is the one that that 

317
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,440
tickled me quite a bit. 
I'll I'll pull it up for those 

318
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,800
who fall along on the stream. 
We'll get the stream posted here

319
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,560
in just a minute. 
Folks eat shit. 

320
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,080
Main St. as stocks started to 
rally. 

321
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,200
I thought that was humorous. 
It was a great day to be on X 

322
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,760
for sure. 
It was relief, much needed 

323
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,640
relief. 
But I do think like the question

324
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:20,720
is now we're starting to look 
ahead. 

325
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,520
Like a lot of these big 
companies have their earnings 

326
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:23,680
coming up. 
They're going to have to share 

327
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,160
some forward-looking guidance, 
like what the hell do you do in 

328
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,680
the next 90 days? 
Like there's still so much 

329
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,920
uncertainty. 
And I think that's what's being 

330
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,160
reflected. 
I think you had the markets 

331
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,640
truly tanking because there 
really was worry there that like

332
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,640
the markets were just no longer 
a priority like that this Main 

333
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,280
Street versus Wall Street thing 
was going on. 

334
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,320
Now it's like, OK, well, there's
that plus the fact that the 

335
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,800
numbers, the tariff numbers were
pretty excessive. 

336
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,040
But now the question is just 
like, OK, like what is a 10% 

337
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:52,760
tariff on the world? 
And how does that impact 

338
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,320
Google's earnings? 
How does that impact Apple's 

339
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,400
earnings? 
How does that impact their 

340
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,160
visibility, their guidance? 
Like those are ultimately the 

341
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,120
stock markets. 
How much money our corporations 

342
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,960
make, you know, And I think now 
like, so we had a huge rebound, 

343
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,400
I think on the idea that this 
was becoming a priority again 

344
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,359
and that we weren't going to 
jump off the Cliff. 

345
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,000
But I think now you're seeing, 
all right, well, now, now we 

346
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,440
have to see how does this 
actually matter? 

347
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,720
If you actually look at the 
numbers, like I think like, like

348
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,960
I, I, I'm not an economist 
myself, but you know, something 

349
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,200
like 15% of GDP is imports. 
It's like a few trillion 

350
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,079
dollars. 
You throw in a 10% tariff on it,

351
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:30,120
it's a few $100 billion total 
weight, you know, and the stock 

352
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,960
market was down 10, like 9 
trillion at its worst. 

353
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:37,560
So there is a piece of that 
wonders like OK are the is the 

354
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,360
removal of market cap we've 
seen? 

355
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,600
Just excessive relative to the 
actual potential impact here. 

356
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,480
Yeah, I think that's very fair 
and and a wide widely shared 

357
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,400
concern at this point in time, 
like 1 notable. 

358
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,160
Relief. 
I'm also saying maybe like these

359
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,120
these moves are overblown 
relative to actually the. 

360
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:59,480
Dollar value impact that a 10% 
tariff is actually going to 

361
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,360
have. 
Also very fair, I think one of 

362
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,080
the the, the metrics that have 
been touted across Trad 5 

363
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,800
outside of even just our our CT 
circles is the US recession 

364
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,040
odds. 
They peaked around 70% 

365
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,280
yesterday. 
I think I saw it at 60. 

366
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:23,800
I think cow sheep perhaps at 68 
back down to 5053 right now 

367
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,160
live. 
If you had to pick a side in 

368
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:32,120
this, what side are you picking,
Logan? 

369
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:32,800
Me. 
I'll talk to you then. 

370
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,240
We'll, we'll. 
Go to Logan, Why don't you go, 

371
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,480
'cause my kids? 
Sure thing. 

372
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,600
Yeah. 
Well, the most difficult part of

373
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,440
this conversation for me, Tyler 
or just the semantic, the 

374
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,040
potential semantic arguments 
listed down below here, right. 

375
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,120
So the true definition in the 
way Polymarket is grading is 

376
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:50,920
based on the what? 
The two straight negative 

377
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,040
quarters of GDP. 
Is that right? 

378
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,280
Yes. 
So you can't really, you can't 

379
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,440
really get yourself around that.
You know, like, you know, Trump 

380
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:00,560
is going to do everything he 
can. 

381
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,080
The administration's going to do
everything he can to avoid using

382
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,040
words like recession and and 
conceding in that way. 

383
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:13,320
But all things considered, what 
we had negative in, in Q1 and so

384
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:18,360
much uncertainty here, I think 
I'd probably be on the yes side 

385
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,840
at this number. 
I mean, it truly is a coin flip 

386
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,760
even, you know, just with the 
odds as well. 

387
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,680
I would have liked it. 
I think it's like correctly. 

388
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,240
It's correctly. 
Yeah, I would have liked either 

389
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,800
side more if and when they were.
You know, as the spread 

390
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,520
increases. 
You know, this is one of those 

391
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,960
things you can often do this 
with some prediction markets 

392
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,560
like as you deviate from 50% 
just kind of sell in and out of,

393
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,920
you know, just like you'd be 
trading in and out of momentum 

394
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,080
because I do think it's, it's 
closer to probably a coin flip 

395
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,520
type thing. 
It was a good buy at 37 cents 

396
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,280
probably, maybe a decent sell at
$0.70. 

397
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,320
Because I don't think we have 
the Q1 numbers, I saw them 

398
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,120
floating around somewhere 
between -3 1/2% -, 2.7%. 

399
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,720
So not only it has to be more 
negative than that as I 

400
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,960
understand it. 
Oh, OK. 

401
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,440
Yeah, so you have to have two. 
Oh, I see. 

402
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,280
Increasing quarters in a row, 
it's decreasing quarter over. 

403
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,480
Decreasing quarters, yeah. 
What do you think, Tyler? 

404
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,200
Gun to my head, if I had to bet 
this, I would bet yes, because 

405
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,760
of still all the uncertainty out
there, less because of the 

406
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,280
immediate tariff impacts, but 
more on just people kind of 

407
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,000
tightening up. 
I think we've already seen some 

408
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:46,240
decreases in industries like 
tourism and it's beer companies 

409
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,680
perhaps not wanting to spend 
until there's a little bit more 

410
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,920
certainty around what the next 
six to six months to four years 

411
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,440
looks like. 
I'll be honest, I went out to 

412
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,840
dinner with friends. 
I was like, let's go somewhere 

413
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,680
cheaper than normal tonight. 
You know, I'm I'm already 

414
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,960
seeing, you know, with markets 
down, you're just like, I don't 

415
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,000
want to spend as much money like
the like I've seen it in my own 

416
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,600
activity. 
You know, our friend was Geebs 

417
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,000
was talking about how. 
He had a friend from Germany who

418
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,240
almost cancelled a trip here 
recently. 

419
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,480
Like I yeah, I don't know how 
much tourism actually matters 

420
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,280
for GDP, but it. 
It does feel like the inclinate 

421
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,200
like that there are a couple 
factors that I'm just seeing in 

422
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,480
my own circles of people being a
bit. 

423
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,400
Less kind of spend heavy than 
like. 

424
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,040
Two months ago, I made a big 
donation to my school, You know,

425
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,600
like we've. 
It's amazing how quickly that 

426
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,080
changes. 
Can I interest you guys in a a 

427
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:39,440
few months in Peru? 
You won't feel so bad about your

428
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,120
daily. 
Live rate What's your daily? 

429
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,400
It's, it's very low. 
It's a little bit different 

430
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,400
right now because my fiance's 
family's in. 

431
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,280
So we've been going to dinner 
and I've been picking up checks 

432
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,800
and stuff. 
But for example, we we got 

433
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,280
dinner for five people, a bottle
of wine and desserts last night 

434
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,840
and I I think it might have been
$50. 

435
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,240
Total. 
Maybe. 

436
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,800
Yeah. 
And you probably went high end. 

437
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,040
It it was above, yeah, it was 
above average place. 

438
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,720
Not not super high end, but 
above average I'd say are. 

439
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,080
You in a city or where are you? 
Yeah, I'm in the third largest 

440
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,640
city in Peru, Trujillo. 
It's it's definitely not a 

441
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,360
tourist hotspot by any means. 
It's not like Lima, Cusco or you

442
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:20,760
know, some of those others, but 
it's city. 

443
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,560
That's sweet, that's awesome. 
Let's, I think we, we talked 

444
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,480
about the big picture, let's 
maybe start talking about some 

445
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,520
market impacts. 
So we talked about stocks, 

446
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,400
Bitcoin at one point it almost 
printed a $10,000 candle 

447
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:40,400
yesterday because it was at 74 K
on Tuesday night around 8:30 and

448
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,640
then it got to 80 or did it get 
to yesterday 83 four. 

449
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:51,000
So like a $9000 bottom to top 
move now holding on 881 three. 

450
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:53,840
Same. 
I think we have this little bit.

451
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,320
It does feel like Bitcoins 
outperformance at this point is 

452
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,760
is notable perhaps under gold, 
but still like compared to the 

453
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,920
rest of the markets. 
I mean, it's up 2% this month. 

454
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,200
I mean, I think like the more 
that the US. 

455
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,000
Positions itself less as like 
the center hotbed of the world's

456
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,640
activity, the more like the US 
dollar perhaps shows signs that 

457
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:19,920
it doesn't want to be a reserve 
currency. 

458
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,800
I'm not sure if we've seen that 
in currency markets, but at 

459
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,560
least in rhetoric like you, just
this is the narrative that 

460
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,120
Bitcoin was made for. 
I will say that Bitcoin 

461
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,360
historically has not treated 
like the narratives. 

462
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,840
Made for like a lot of the 
narratives that we discussed on 

463
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,280
the timeline just aren't. 
Reflected in the. 

464
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,720
Marketplace, but you know if you
look at. 

465
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,200
Assets relative to where they 
were when Trump was elected. 

466
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,400
I mean, Bitcoin is still by far 
one of the biggest out 

467
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,640
performers. 
You know, obviously gold 

468
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,240
probably more so, but. 
You know, we're still at 81,000 

469
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,800
despite what's been a very rocky
couple of months. 

470
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,880
So I think the market is 
starting to, to favor Bitcoin in

471
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,840
the scheme of risk assets. 
The you know, the the downside 

472
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,040
is like you can't say that for 
anything else in the crypto. 

473
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,920
Complex other than far coin. 
Like, I mean like eats full, you

474
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,480
know, dough, like pretty much 
everything is getting hammered 

475
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,000
the way the rest of the risk 
asset world is getting hammered.

476
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,720
But it does feel like Bitcoin 
itself, like the narrative that 

477
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,520
this would make, it's we're 
getting hints, we're getting 

478
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,720
hints that it could be perhaps 
that they like that perhaps 

479
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,480
there's some chance of a bit of 
decoupling from. 

480
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,760
Just NASDAQ, which I think is 
kind of what? 

481
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,360
The people in the space would 
like to see. 

482
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,160
Now, to be fair, being 
correlated with NASDAQ has been 

483
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,400
a great thing to be correlated 
with over the past 15 years, 

484
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,320
like being a risk asset has. 
This has been a very strong risk

485
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:36,840
asset stretch for a couple 
decades. 

486
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,200
But but yeah, I'm starting to 
think like maybe, maybe there 

487
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,240
are hints that we're going to 
start. 

488
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,160
Getting a bit. 
Like if I had incremental 

489
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,160
dollars to put in, like, would I
put in a NASDAQ? 

490
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,320
Would I put in a Bitcoin? 
Like, yeah, I think Bitcoin 

491
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,800
probably right. 
Now, like it feels like it feels

492
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,600
like a better thing to own. 
I tend to agree. 

493
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,680
And I think there's this this 
whole like there's the Dalio 

494
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,960
argument that we're we're moving
towards the new world order, 

495
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,960
multi polar. 
You had the like, we didn't even

496
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,880
have a chance to dive into that 
statement from the the US 

497
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,080
economic advisor council where 
they basically came out and said

498
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,360
there's a lot of problems having
the dollar be the global reserve

499
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:18,200
currency and how effectively I 
could you read, read the pieces 

500
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,240
like they were comfortable 
moving away from that. 

501
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,840
What was my interpretation of 
that? 

502
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,160
And I don't think that's 
something that happens 

503
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,960
immediately, probably plays out 
over decades. 

504
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,400
But that would be a bitcoins a 
winner there, right? 

505
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:37,800
I mean, the only thing that's 
clear is that foreign money 

506
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,800
wants to be less entangled in 
the. 

507
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,080
US. 
And rightfully so, right? 

508
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,720
Like we're making it very clear 
that there is volatility to 

509
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,720
doing business with us that 
maybe we don't even want this 

510
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,520
level of like the people to be 
so intertwined with, with with 

511
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,080
US decision making. 
So if if you're China, if you're

512
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,640
Europe, if if you're really 
Australia, if you're other 

513
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,000
economies like and you can 
randomly get get a massive 

514
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,840
tariffs slapped on you or other 
things like that. 

515
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,040
And this whole dialogue. 
About about how you have to. 

516
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,600
To negotiate now, like when two 
weeks ago, like this wasn't on 

517
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,680
the table, you know, I, I can 
see a world. 

518
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,520
These guys, all right, you know,
maybe going forward we got to 

519
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,040
distance. 
Ourselves a little bit and 

520
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,560
perhaps Bitcoin becomes winner 
there. 

521
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,840
The story that was floating 
around yesterday, mostly because

522
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,480
Van concluded it in a in a post 
or a webinar. 

523
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,280
The news actually came out about
a month ago, but Russia has 

524
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,120
started to use crypto currencies
to sell oil trade. 

525
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,040
So China and Russia are are 
doing oil deals using Bitcoin, 

526
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,760
tether and ETH actually. 
Did that get verified or was 

527
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,600
that like I saw some comments 
saying it's? 

528
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,320
Unverified at this point. 
It was from Reuters. 

529
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,640
They said they had four sources 
that they didn't and they didn't

530
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,120
want to name because of the 
sensitivity of of the deal. 

531
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,680
The other thing that the other 
the other deal that the other 

532
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,160
thing post where? 
Everyone was saying this is fake

533
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,520
news. 
Was that world liberty was 

534
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,960
selling their 8th? 
Is that did did we get word on 

535
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,960
that? 
I, I didn't dig in. 

536
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,360
I thought that was fake though, 
that that felt more fake. 

537
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,480
And I think more people would 
have been like, you think you 

538
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,040
could just Arkham First off, 
like Arkham is not always the 

539
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,320
most reliable source for 
whatever reason. 

540
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,680
Like for a, a protocol that is 
built on like on chain tracking,

541
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,160
I think this should be very 
determinable. 

542
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,560
Like, was this their wallet or 
not? 

543
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,920
And like they're using words 
like maybe. 

544
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,160
And so I don't think it was. 
I think we would have seen more 

545
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,040
loud cries in the timeline. 
Yeah, it is. 

546
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,520
We always do say everything is 
on chain, everything's on train 

547
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,440
on chain. 
But we don't say how hard it is 

548
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,240
sometimes to link wallets with 
actual human beings like it is a

549
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:47,960
bit of a wrench. 
I. 

550
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,600
Think in the everything's on 
chain argument because it's it's

551
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,640
very hard off and to to link 
wallets with with people unless 

552
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,880
you're like have mad mad. 
Information, yeah, very true. 

553
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,760
So I think the the full verdict 
still out on that, but leaning 

554
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,120
no. 
I mean, looking at some of the 

555
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,440
other winners, we, we, I talk 
about hype a lot on the show and

556
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,560
there is a reason that there was
a point where it was one of the 

557
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,800
top movers yesterday. 
It was, it hit $10 I think 9:50 

558
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,360
at the at the bottom now back to
14. 

559
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:20,760
So it's above the exploit level,
Logie, I guess any reactions to 

560
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,640
any of the of the top movers 
that we saw? 

561
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,880
No, no major reactions. 
I mean, I think the the group 

562
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,320
was led by a cohort of sorry, 
the the move was led by a cohort

563
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,560
of assets that you'd anticipate 
being the the strongest if there

564
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,440
was a very strong market wide 
boost. 

565
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,640
So you know, Ripple, we talked 
about that yesterday. 

566
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,400
That was just coincidental that 
it ripped right after the show, 

567
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,680
no pun intended. 
But you know, AVAX like all 

568
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,880
those things, Doge, I mean 10 to
15% right. 

569
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,360
That's the type of group that if
you are looking to find a little

570
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,720
basket of performance expecting 
a a larger market wide bounce, 

571
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,560
like that's the type of group 
that you you can always sort of 

572
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,840
rely on far coin man. 
This has been this has been 

573
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,880
awesome. 
I don't I don't even own any, 

574
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,320
but it's been awesome to see 
just the resurgence here. 

575
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,440
So what, 260X or sorry not 260 X
260% gain in the last month? 

576
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,520
Talk about outperformance pretty
loud it. 

577
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,840
Hit that yesterday. 
I think folks were going to see 

578
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,800
like how much is this going to 
pop on the good news and it 

579
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,920
delivering. 
What do you think drives far 

580
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,680
coin Tyler? 
Like it's such a like we talk 

581
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,920
about it all the time, but what 
do you think? 

582
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,920
Actually are the drivers here of
price. 

583
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,640
Large mind share outside of just
crypto Twitter circles. 

584
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,120
So like Eric Balkunis is a 
notable ETF analyst. 

585
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,680
Yesterday he organically was 
like someone had posted about 

586
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,680
how the stock market was 
rallying and he said and far 

587
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,040
coin rallied even more. 
Why is it always why is it 

588
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,360
always far coin? 
It's it's in it's rent free and 

589
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,720
Travis heads. 
So I think that's and they have 

590
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,960
huge audiences like you look at 
some of our like influencers 

591
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,320
following counts versus some of 
theirs like they're they're in 

592
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:05,880
the millions, some some of these
folks. 

593
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:11,160
So that's bigger reach. 
I think this the general decline

594
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,520
of new options and and memes 
that have survived and people 

595
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,000
are consolidating into into 
winners. 

596
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,960
Yeah, I think, I think it's the 
simplest like dumb coin, like 

597
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,280
all the other meme coins, Doge, 
she whatever, you know, they're 

598
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,720
meme coins, you know, they're 
like in you know, there's no 

599
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,360
intrinsic value, but those don't
necessarily represent anything 

600
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,600
beyond now Doge I think has 
graduated to that level at this 

601
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,040
point, right. 
Like you kind of recognize Doge,

602
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,280
but fartcoin, like everybody 
knows a fart. 

603
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,400
I. 
Mean I do too. 

604
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,480
It's like it's like my favorite 
thing to to to send to my I 

605
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,200
don't have any crypto friends 
where I live, you know, and it's

606
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,520
a lot of like kind of people who
are big into financial markets 

607
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,480
who just aren't into crypto. 
So that's always the meme you 

608
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,800
send them. 
I was more asking like, what are

609
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,440
the things that make it go down?
Like it like this thing can go 

610
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,280
it went went down to, to like it
can tank as well. 

611
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,360
Like it's like you saw, you 
know, is it like illiquid? 

612
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,040
Are there insiders? 
Like are there insiders is the 

613
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,600
wrong word? 
Are there whales who manipulate 

614
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,760
it? 
Like is there outside of the 

615
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,160
bull case? 
Like what are the things that 

616
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,360
move it in either direction? 
Or is it just? 

617
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,040
I mean, it does a lot of. 
Just like asking which way the 

618
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,320
wind blows. 
It does a ton of perps volume 

619
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,240
like on hyper liquid like let's 
see, like it's, I think this is 

620
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,280
this ranking here is effectively
in the perps trading volume. 

621
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,880
So it's sixth of all the crypto 
assets on on hype. 

622
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,200
And some days those are long. 
Some days those are shorts, 

623
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,960
right? 
And like you, you've got the, 

624
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,760
the mercenaries out there who 
are more than happy to flip 

625
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,440
short on these things. 
So like that. 

626
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,760
And that's where you can drive 
the, some of the cell cascades 

627
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:02,120
down as well. 
But I mean, again, and like 

628
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,320
liquidity pools are small, 
smaller compared to some of your

629
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,880
larger tokens, of course. 
So less capital can can drive 

630
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,560
the, the more big moves in 
either direction. 

631
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,000
But it's hard to argue that it's
not one of the the biggest 

632
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,560
winners. 
And now like that, the lifetime 

633
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,080
charts starting to look good 
again. 

634
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,560
Like for a while I had to kind 
of zoom into the last month to 

635
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,920
to to show the picture that that
I, my bias wanted to show, but 

636
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,480
now zoom out. 
If you believe in meme coins as 

637
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,480
like what they're meant to be, 
this feels. 

638
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,120
Like the perfect embodiment. 
Yeah, and this people don't need

639
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,920
to know this, but it is pretty 
hilarious that an AI agent 

640
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,680
actually came up with this idea 
like that is the origin. 

641
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,680
Yeah. 
Truth Terminal came up with the 

642
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,520
perfect meme coin, and it turned
out it was. 

643
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,720
It was damn right. 
Maybe the robots have a chance. 

644
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,400
I think, I think there's a non 
zero chance that, you know, 

645
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,680
let's say crypto fades into 
irrelevance. 

646
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,360
That fart coin is like literally
the top coin. 

647
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,080
Not maybe not over Bitcoin, but.
I think it could be the top 

648
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,640
meme. 100% there's a there's a 
non zero chance of that. 

649
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,480
I think there's a non zero 
chance that has its own chain 

650
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,160
fart chain. 
I don't know that we want that, 

651
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,800
man. 
We're introducing too much stuff

652
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,600
now. 
Execution risk with fart chain. 

653
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,040
Maybe it creates like dosh. 
Dosh has a chain, right? 

654
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,680
Well, I mean, yeah, but that's 
how it started. 

655
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,360
That was his own blockchain. 
Oh yeah, I guess I didn't know 

656
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,880
the the full story there. 
Well, we talked about this 

657
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,000
point. 
I'm sure we'll talk about it 

658
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,320
more In other AI news, we had a 
huge TG today. 

659
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,560
It's a prompt. 
The Wayfinder token has gone 

660
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,600
live. 
It's opening at a $40 million 

661
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,440
market cap, $180 million FTV. 
Some fun out there. 

662
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,680
Logan, you've been, we were 
talking before the show. 

663
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,600
You're a day one catcher. 
How? 

664
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,000
How are you feeling with your 
reactions here on a big TG day? 

665
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,000
Yeah, obviously excited that 
it's finally out. 

666
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,800
You know, I've mentioned this a 
few times in the last few days, 

667
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,400
but it was awesome to have Kalos
and Adrian on last week to see a

668
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,640
little bit more about what, you 
know, the vision is and the 

669
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,800
future is for Wayfinder, which 
is kind of the the protocol or 

670
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,600
platform that prompt is 
powering. 

671
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,440
I feel OK. 
I think, you know, difficult 

672
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,880
conditions to launch into and 
all things considered, when you 

673
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,520
compare this to a lot of the 
other AI tokens, like we pulled 

674
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,440
up the board yesterday, you 
know, $174 million FTVA, $40 

675
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,800
million market cap, not all that
bad. 

676
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,920
My expectations were higher, but
perhaps that's just me being 

677
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,400
anchored to some of those 
previous, you know, lofty AI 

678
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,320
token valuations and some of 
course, opium as a, you know, as

679
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,800
a prompt, sorry, as a prime 
casher in response receiving 

680
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,040
prompt, but I feel I feel OK 
otherwise. 

681
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,199
I haven't been able to dig too 
much into all of the the FUD. 

682
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:58,840
I know you mentioned what 
cashiers feeling maybe a little 

683
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:04,600
under saying underpaid doesn't 
seem right, but you know what I 

684
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,480
mean under rewarded for for 
locking up their prime tokens. 

685
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,200
So I can't comment just because 
I haven't, I haven't actually 

686
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,160
seen mine, what it looks like to
either join in or to say, no, 

687
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,880
you know, it's not too bad. 
But I totally recognize the 

688
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,040
potential fund there. 
If, you know, people who have 

689
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,720
dedicated themselves to this 
ecosystem, locked up assets in 

690
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:30,680
this ecosystem and have felt 
like on the other end after, you

691
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,000
know, providing some level of 
commitment that their commitment

692
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,880
was not rewarded or, you know, 
seen it as such. 

693
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,200
So. 
Yeah, I think 2 primary fund 

694
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,080
angles. 
One, the distribution to the 

695
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,840
prime cashiers felt low. 
And I'm speaking personally as 

696
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,520
well. 
That was my initial reaction 

697
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,120
because I, I put a healthy 
amount into the prime token, 

698
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:59,400
have cash for the 900 day Max 
and I got like 30% of the tokens

699
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,160
that people in the top 100 on 
the Kaido Yap board got for no 

700
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,120
capital commitment. 
So that's tough to stomach. 

701
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:11,720
And then the other foot angles, 
I think folks on this is a 

702
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,960
ridiculous foot angle. 
People didn't know that they 

703
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,000
were going to have the 
requirements that you had to be 

704
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,160
an emerging yapper to to get the
yap points. 

705
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,040
So basically if you were, if you
already had a certain number of 

706
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,320
smart followers, certain number 
of yaps, you didn't get the 

707
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,160
reward. 
Whatever. 

708
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:27,440
I'm pretty. 
I'm pretty sure they 

709
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,240
communicated that like 100 
times. 

710
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,240
Yeah. 
So I think this is an easy one 

711
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,680
to cross out and you didn't put 
anything up for that other than 

712
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,760
a little bit of your time. 
So you spent 30 minutes. 

713
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,600
You you you put some stuff in 
the ChatGPT and you and you 

714
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,240
schedule some tweets. 
No one feels bad for you. 

715
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,400
I do feel for the prime 
cashiers. 

716
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,880
But with all that says like that
is the fun. 

717
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,400
But I think I mean, look at this
AI board. 

718
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:59,320
So prompt is right now coming in
at it's the 12th token by market

719
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,120
cap on this list. 
It's below the goat token. 

720
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:12,320
It's blow act blow chain GPT 
blow AIXPT that that does not 

721
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,880
make sense. 
It's like from a relative value 

722
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:20,320
perspective, this token is is 
too cheap for for what prompt 

723
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,000
is. 
And I guess for those if you if 

724
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,040
you didn't watch our interview 
with with the the founders, go 

725
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,120
back and do it. 
But like effectively what the 

726
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,040
wave Finder tools enabled they, 
they've got effectively a 

727
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,320
natural language smart contract 
coding agent they have, but 

728
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,520
basically you can write whatever
crypto program you want, limited

729
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,520
by your imagination. 
Effectively they've got an on 

730
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:49,880
chain trading copilot Midas that
allows you to do effectively 

731
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,000
whatever you want to do. 
It maps out the steps for you 

732
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,440
and you can run simulations to 
see do you actually want to do 

733
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,120
this or not, which is also 
pretty much unlimited to like 

734
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,920
what you, you know, what type of
transaction do you want to do? 

735
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,040
They've got the incentives in 
place to have folks, people are 

736
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,640
incentivized to build out the 
bridges. 

737
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,080
So like, let's say you want to 
bridge from Seoul to ETH to buy 

738
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,200
a smart chain and you want to 
look for the best USDC yield 

739
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,440
across all three of those 
chains. 

740
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,400
If they don't have the pass for 
that, you will earn prompt 

741
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,280
tokens by building out the paths
to help execute that transaction

742
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,200
for future people. 
So I do genuinely think it's 

743
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,280
it's one of the strongest 
products we have today. 

744
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,560
I think that one of the issues 
is that like it's very hard to 

745
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,880
actually like these relative 
valuations make sense. 

746
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,840
It's very hard to back into 
absolute valuations. 

747
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,640
And we anchor ourselves to 
valuations which are a product 

748
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,040
of the amount of FOMO in the 
marketplace when they are 

749
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,800
launched. 
And you know, it's like our 

750
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,160
people, like I need to get this 
because tokens are ripping 

751
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,840
tomorrow and I'm going to be 
able to sell it for more to 

752
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,640
someone in a couple days and 
I'll buy it for today. 

753
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,280
That is like that is the 
question people are asking. 

754
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,640
And I think they're more 
anchoring themselves to recent 

755
00:38:54,640 --> 00:39:00,120
TG ES than saying holy shit AI 
XBT is at is at this market cap 

756
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,400
so I need to buy prompt because 
it's lower. 

757
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,160
That's just not the way the 
marketplace is. 

758
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,160
Rewarding people right now. 
Like the key you know is how 

759
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,160
high is the FOMO that people 
think that they can can sell it 

760
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,640
higher very soon based on the 
way other TGS have gone and like

761
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,400
we could not be in a worse. 
Environment for that. 

762
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,480
Actually, I'm sure we could. 
But but. 

763
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,160
Never say the environment, never
say the environment around here 

764
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,960
can't get worse. 
But it is not, it has not been 

765
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,360
the environment that you're 
going to jump into for the sake 

766
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,880
of like people FOMO a product. 
Yeah. 

767
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,880
And that that actually, you 
know, that creates quite a bit 

768
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,480
of opportunity here. 
If you, you know, if you believe

769
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,960
in prompt, if you believe in 
what the the way Finder mission 

770
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:45,760
is, if you think that a product 
like what they're providing and 

771
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,960
building is going to be actually
useful for crypto participants, 

772
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,200
either whether it be ourselves 
or the next, the next 

773
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,080
generation, should there be one 
of on chain active participants,

774
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,960
then this doesn't seem all that 
bad as the 12th, you know, the 

775
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,520
12th AI token at $40 million 
market cap. 

776
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:08,000
I think, you know, just circling
back to some of the FUD as well.

777
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,640
One of the issues that you know 
I totally can get behind a bit 

778
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,640
is. 
The communication stuff is 

779
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,680
difficult. 
I think they were, they were 

780
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,240
forthright about to the best of 
their ability about like the 

781
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,240
dates. 
But otherwise tokenomic wise, 

782
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:28,920
they deviated quite differently 
from how others have 

783
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,680
communicated token launches, 
right? 

784
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,000
Like there was not a full 
packet, 25 page packet with the 

785
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,840
tokenomics, right? 
Not to my knowledge. 

786
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,720
Has anybody seen anything like 
that? 

787
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,640
That doesn't mean that that's 
bad. 

788
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,760
It's just that it was different.
And like, I don't, I don't even 

789
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:45,680
know. 
I don't even know what the 

790
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,040
tokenomics are. 
I don't know. 

791
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:48,600
We were asking for the show, 
Tyler. 

792
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,320
Like, so you've got Prime locked
up for five years. 

793
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,040
I've got Prime locked up for 
five years. 

794
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,480
Like, am I entitled to something
a little bit, you know it down 

795
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,720
the road as a result? 
Or was kind of everything 

796
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,800
smacked up front here? 
No, I don't know. 

797
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,720
As I understand it and I don't 
have the details. 

798
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,800
I think you're right, maybe they
haven't been shared, but 40% are

799
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,920
going to cashier's and it's 
ongoing. 

800
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:15,040
So it was not a upfront 40%, but
I don't know the specific 

801
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,200
diesels and I think that's also 
you. 

802
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:19,600
Know I'm going to ask a dumb 
question just and maybe the 

803
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,000
listeners have this question, 
maybe they don't. 

804
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,760
What are prime catchers? 
So prime is the the token? 

805
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,600
Yeah, caching is just staking. 
Just another word for staking 

806
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,680
and prime being the parallel 
ecosystem token. 

807
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,080
OK, so people who have that 
state got. 

808
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,440
Access to the token. 
Yep. 

809
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,800
So from the from the jump, the 
primary ways to earn prompt was 

810
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,760
either by holding the prime 
token and staking it. 

811
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,320
I think there was a way to earn 
it via the avatars, but I don't 

812
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,320
know if that was passive or if 
you had to use those in the 

813
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,120
game. 
Those were going to be the 

814
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,080
primary ways you could do it. 
And then they they enabled the 

815
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,760
social program. 
I know here in the in the last 

816
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:03,040
month or so, I see Brett has 
joined us in the spaces. 

817
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:05,920
Great guy, good good friend of 
the show. 

818
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,320
Your hand is up. 
Do you have some comments on the

819
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,400
on the prompt? 
How are you doing? 

820
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,160
Friends yeah, I so OK, so like, 
you know, I'm coming from the 

821
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,960
technical side of the house. 
Some FUD that I didn't hear you 

822
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,320
guys or maybe aren't even aware 
of. 

823
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,640
It's some of the smart contract 
FUD from the actual launch. 

824
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:26,160
Have you guys seen the recent 
exploit? 

825
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,320
From the the Kaido side of the 
house that was breaking like 

826
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,840
right before we went, we went 
live. 

827
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,280
Yeah, well, so I don't know if 
it's the Kaido's sort of the 

828
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,200
house, but just like people 
claiming from the actual 

829
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,880
contracts like there was 1A fudd
piece like there 2 ago from pop 

830
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,720
punk writers, like looked at the
contract after it was deployed 

831
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,840
and saw that it had like, you 
know, like one O 1 errors and 

832
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,760
like hard coded values that are 
silly and you know, stuff like 

833
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:51,720
that. 
So there was some FUD around 

834
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:55,400
that of like the irony of a 
project that's coming to market 

835
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,160
as like this on chain GPT thing 
that couldn't even deploy their 

836
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,200
own sticking contracts. 
And then they already paused 

837
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,200
claims on the prompt stuff 
because there was an MEV front 

838
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,080
runner because they how they 
coded the claim. 

839
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,840
So anytime someone tried to 
claim, someone stepped in front 

840
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,000
of it. 
And because the claim didn't 

841
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,160
guarantee that it was, it had to
go to the person who was 

842
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,000
initiating initiating the claim.
MEV bot was stepping in front of

843
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,520
people and they wrote a called a
yoink. 

844
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,960
So they're yanking the actual 
claims from people for you know,

845
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,840
a couple hours. 
They've accumulated like 200 ETH

846
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:27,360
from people that were trying to 
claim. 

847
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,520
Wow, so 200. 
Dollars, so that might impact 

848
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,600
price action a little bit. 
Yeah, it, it certainly has. 

849
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,560
So thanks for sharing that. 
I, I, I wasn't aware of the 

850
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,960
details. 
So that's going to, that's, 

851
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,240
that's going to hurt some of the
sentiment. 

852
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:44,240
Day one. 
I will say in disclosure, I, I, 

853
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,960
I, I did buy some this morning. 
So I am a bag holder and that's 

854
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,120
not the right word, but I, I 
chose to buy. 

855
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,880
I, I had an AirDrop and instead 
of selling it, I chose to buy 

856
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,560
more. 
I do think this type of launch 

857
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,200
enables the type of price action
that people can rally behind 

858
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,080
versus like where you had the TG
ES that come out super high, 

859
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,760
overvalued and then everyone 
races to sell. 

860
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,040
And then this the chart looks 
terrible for the rest of time 

861
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,680
versus one that comes out of the
more reasonable valuation and 

862
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,240
people can actually choose to, 
to buy in for longer term or 

863
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:19,840
actually hold their airdrops. 
So I think this is set up for 

864
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,360
that. 
So we will certainly see. 

865
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,160
Brett, thank you for joining us.
A couple other quick topics 

866
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:30,720
here. 
This this Ponzi game on the 

867
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:33,920
abstract keeps going folks like 
I think it's it's at the point 

868
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,120
where it's worth talking about. 
It's a classic game where you 

869
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,000
you get this, it's a it's a 
mining game. 

870
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,560
It's called Bitcoin, playoff 
Bitcoin, similar to tokenomics, 

871
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:48,760
and effectively there's ways you
can buy equipment with their 

872
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,200
token and you mine it. 
And then yesterday they released

873
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,440
an update where you can sell 
some of your equipment back at 

874
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,440
90%. 
Then you can upgrade your 

875
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,640
equipment. 
Anyways, the token is doing 

876
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,880
quite well, so the game is 
staying alive. 

877
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,600
I don't know there's much more 
to say about it than that, but 

878
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,800
it's fun to see some success 
playing out on abstract these 

879
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,200
days. 
Some folks having fun with this 

880
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,800
one. 
I think that the larger piece of

881
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,000
news that we haven't touched on 
yet. 

882
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,800
Major acquisition in the NFT 
slash broader crypto space. 

883
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,800
Magic Eden acquired Slingshot. 
Slingshot is a trading app. 

884
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:28,440
I think people trade meme coins.
This is whatever coins you want.

885
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,800
I was not a user, but I am in 
chats and and friends with folks

886
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,560
who were power users who said 
that this was the best training 

887
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,520
app on the market. 
So this is a big one. 

888
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,240
Logie, I see you're nodding your
head. 

889
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:43,640
Like, what are your reactions to
this one? 

890
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,160
Is this a big one here Remy? 
Yeah, I think so. 

891
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,840
I mean Magic Eden wants to sort 
of be one of those everything 

892
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:55,200
apps at this point, right, The 
NFT trading, they of course are 

893
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,160
to my knowledge the hub for 
Bitcoin stuff. 

894
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,000
Not much really happening there 
at this point in time, but look 

895
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,440
at. 
That green? 

896
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,640
Yeah. 
Oh yay, some green. 

897
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,000
I don't even see RSIC on the 
board. 

898
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,880
That's how bad it's gotten you. 
Don't want to see? 

899
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,800
It yeah, nevertheless, you have 
to be in everything type app, 

900
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:22,720
you got to have everything and 
you have to have a a product 

901
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,520
that supports that. 
And they didn't really have 

902
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,320
token trading before, right? 
Didn't have a a way for folks. 

903
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,320
Now if you're using like the 
Magic Eden wallet. 

904
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,600
So I use like Magic Eden wallet 
from time to time for select 

905
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,640
things, you know, there's some 
swaps and stuff in there, but 

906
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:42,320
otherwise there's no like simple
trading platform via Magic Eden.

907
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,560
So this is an opportunity and 
you have, you have to have, it's

908
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,800
almost a prerequisite if you 
want to be a big, big, you know,

909
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,200
trading infrastructure beyond 
NFCS, of course, it's a 

910
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,600
prerequisite to have token 
trading at this point in time. 

911
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,200
We know from the, you know, the 
open C announcement long ago, 

912
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,160
they're going to be implementing
that into OS 2. 

913
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,560
So this is, you know, this makes
a lot of sense to me. 

914
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,760
It's, you know, it's a pretty 
natural fit and they, you know, 

915
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,320
by acquiring Slingshot. 
I've not used Slingshot, but 

916
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,520
yeah, same, same thing. 
Anecdotally, I've seen pretty 

917
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,640
high praise for for how 
purchasing tokens on the 

918
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,560
platform works. 
Yeah, I didn't realize it had 

919
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,400
the training abstraction behind 
it, which I actually think that 

920
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,640
is a huge unlock because it is a
pain in the ass. 

921
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,800
Like if you're like a native 
Solana trader and then you see a

922
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,920
token on base that you want to 
get into those extra steps. 

923
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,680
Like it is a real barrier. 
So if they remove that away that

924
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,840
that is a big benefit to the 
user experience. 

925
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:40,640
Sam, I'm curious for your 
thoughts and maybe just kind of 

926
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,200
Part 2, just like where like 
what's the stack ranking of NFT 

927
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,040
marketplaces right now? 
Yeah, I have a few thoughts 

928
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,200
here. 
I mean, 1 is like magic. 

929
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,880
Eden is, at its core an NFT 
company. 

930
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,280
But I think it's just clear 
right now that as much as we 

931
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,120
want to sit around and wait for 
the glory days of NFTS to come 

932
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,160
back, like, it's just not. 
Going to pay the bills at least 

933
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,200
you know, we gotta do something 
else so. 

934
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,840
Right now you just. 
Have to be outside of just the 

935
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:08,080
NFT space like it like ordinals 
are are so cooked and but but 

936
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,440
ETH NFTS are as well as like. 
When was the last time you heard

937
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:11,880
someone talk about a Solana NFT 
like? 

938
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,840
It's just, it's just been, it 
just has no mindshare right now 

939
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,840
and we've been waiting for over 
a year and it's not working. 

940
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,120
So it's not surprising that 
these guys feel like they want 

941
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,040
to expand. 
One thing I was thinking is like

942
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,240
have is M&A, has M&A ever? 
Gone well in the crypto space. 

943
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:29,440
Like do we have? 
Like do we, we have like the 

944
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,960
Google buys YouTube, Facebook 
buys Instagram examples that 

945
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,840
show that M&A can be immensely 
accretive to, to companies like,

946
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:42,160
but I just M&A is very hard and 
it requires very good leadership

947
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,280
and operation skills. 
And, and to be honest, I 

948
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:46,720
actually know the magic eating 
guys quite well. 

949
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,400
It's been a fair bit of. 
Time with them and I think 

950
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:49,960
they're as good operators as 
you're going to get in the 

951
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,240
space. 
So, you know, it's certainly not

952
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:55,080
the team I've kind of out, but. 
It's not like it just feels like

953
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,240
something that hasn't like 
really made headlines as a side 

954
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:00,880
of the initial announcement in 
our space. 

955
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,280
And the third thing I said, I 
have no idea anything about a 

956
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,840
slingshot, but you know, there, 
there are a lot of crypto 

957
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,680
companies that are, are actually
willing. 

958
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,800
To be bought very cheap like 
Aqua hires are common. 

959
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,520
I have no idea if this was one 
of them, perhaps not, but but 

960
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,240
there are. 
Like the amount of companies 

961
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:20,840
that are like that that want to 
get acquired because it it's 

962
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,840
hard to make, it's hard to get 
by as a business. 

963
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,920
In this space. 
You know, so but again, I, I, I 

964
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,760
almost feel uncomfortable saying
that because I just don't have 

965
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,320
enough. 
Context on this product to know 

966
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,000
kind of where it stands in that 
in, in in that rank order. 

967
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,960
But I have seen a lot of like 
acquisition announcements on the

968
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,440
timeline where kind of three 
weeks ago I'd heard that the the

969
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,480
acquired company was like 
shopping around like basically 

970
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:46,240
like Aqua hire type situations. 
It's clearly a direction that 

971
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:47,960
the the NFT marketplaces are 
going. 

972
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,080
I think all the so blur is just 
kind of out to launch. 

973
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,960
They're they're happy with their
current product. 

974
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,720
It seems open C leaned into 
token trading. 

975
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,480
Magic Eden clearly has and then 
Tensor with Vector, right. 

976
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,480
So like it's it's front facing. 
But the same time, I think 

977
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,640
Vector has had some success. 
I guess if they're standalone 

978
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,840
apps, people will use them. 
But like, I, I don't think 

979
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,600
people are going to NFT 
marketplaces to trade crypto 

980
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:14,880
tokens. 
Yeah. 

981
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,440
No. 
So I think open season have to 

982
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,280
figure that out for their for 
their app experience. 

983
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,040
I think because of Slingshot's 
got users, Vector has users. 

984
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,640
And I I haven't heard great. 
Things about like magic Eden's 

985
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,440
moving to wallets like I, you 
know, I, I personally don't use 

986
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,240
it, but. 
You know. 

987
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,320
It's not great. 
It's it's not great. 

988
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,160
Like people are still using. 
Phantom and and you know, and 

989
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,560
and Rabby and freaking meta mask
or whatever that that's my sense

990
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,480
at least. 
Oogie real quick, but market 

991
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,600
impacted this this story for 
both of you. 

992
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,480
I guess that the new speculation
for runes is that they're going 

993
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,880
to be tradable on Slingshot. 
That doesn't answer the question

994
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,240
for why anyone would buy a 
runes, which there is still no 

995
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:05,360
good answer for that question, 
but clearly the market liked it 

996
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,560
like this is some of the the 
most green we've seen in in 

997
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,360
granted probably just somewhat 
of a bounce. 

998
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,600
Scroll down, keep going, Show me
it. 

999
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,640
Just show it. 
It's red on the deck. 

1000
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,440
Can you? 
Oh my God stop it. 

1001
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:27,840
Jeez dude, Arsic is such a mess.
I fumble a large decent chunk 6 

1002
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,560
figure air drop which is now 
worth almost 0. 

1003
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,640
Effing hell. 
But we we live and we learn. 

1004
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:40,000
And there's just no. 
It's an interesting case study 

1005
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,400
like. 
Why are runes such a fail? 

1006
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,480
You know, it's like. 
They, they, they've been a fail 

1007
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,840
as meme coins have done well and
as Bitcoin has done well and 

1008
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,760
meme coins on Bitcoin. 
I mean the fact that dog is 

1009
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,440
still above 100 million I guess 
is nothing. 

1010
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:59,000
To scoff at, but like, like it 
is wild how in the most bullish 

1011
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,320
meme coin environment we've ever
had and the most bullish Bitcoin

1012
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,960
environment we had had in a 
little while. 

1013
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,880
I mean, obviously Bitcoin used 
to go up 1000% per month or 

1014
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,920
whatever, but like. 
In one of the more bullish 

1015
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,000
recent Bitcoin environments, 
certainly after the election 

1016
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,360
that that meme coins on big on 
Bitcoin were just such a. 

1017
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:22,360
Colossal fail and I it's. 
A lot of what? 

1018
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,840
I try to do is figure out what 
drives prices and what makes 

1019
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,280
things work here and what makes 
things fail. 

1020
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,880
And like, if you knew certain 
things, you know that, then 

1021
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,920
what? 
Which stuff could you infer went

1022
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:35,040
up And yeah, I, I haven't really
wrapped my head around why this 

1023
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,880
despite everything else, like 
just could not take off. 

1024
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,320
It's a tough one. 
I don't have the answer either. 

1025
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,000
I think people will say like the
the point to wealth effect. 

1026
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,160
Just wait till there's a wealth 
effect. 

1027
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,440
I mean, we had a wealth effect, 
yeah, arguably one of the 

1028
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,600
biggest wealth effects that on 
chain traders have had. 

1029
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,640
One thing I think is so 
important for any asset is that 

1030
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:01,360
you have one thing that kind of 
surprisingly takes off like once

1031
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,760
Dogecoin takes off and becomes a
$10 billion meme coin, like then

1032
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,360
everything else could be the 
next next Dogecoin and 

1033
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,280
everything else starts about 
once punks take off, then jpegs 

1034
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,720
can be valuable. 
And once you know and and and 

1035
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:16,680
board apes and all these other 
things come up because we know 

1036
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,960
that we've seen some some some 
duration to the pumps. 

1037
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,000
We've seen, you know, in this 
market when Pepe took off, that 

1038
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,360
opens the floodgates for whiff 
and all these other things to 

1039
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,640
kind of be the next one. 
But I almost feel like you need 

1040
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:33,000
that FOMO source that like. 
That that father of all FOMO. 

1041
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,280
And to to just make people move 
into the space, made people set 

1042
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,040
up the wallets. 
I mean, I personally still don't

1043
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:40,920
even know how to trade rooms. 
I like there. 

1044
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,040
There has been nothing yet that 
has made me back. 

1045
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,280
I got to figure out this process
to, to, to, to chase any of this

1046
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,760
stuff. 
And I think that that's and that

1047
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,720
that first one can't be 
manufactured. 

1048
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,360
Like if you look at punks, if 
you look at Dogecoin, if I mean 

1049
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,080
Pepe was. 
Manufactured so maybe not, but 

1050
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,520
like. 
Almost all these things like it 

1051
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,400
feels like it, but but you could
argue Pepe was was kind of 

1052
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,200
chasing Doge too. 
Like you just need that one 

1053
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,240
thing that kind of, you know. 
Chromey. 

1054
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:10,480
Squiggles that surprises people 
and then that that injects the 

1055
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,680
FOMO into the into the. 
Marketplace that that is 100% 

1056
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:15,640
necessary for anything to do 
well, I mean. 

1057
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,600
And in AI you had it as well. 
With AIXBT and a few others. 

1058
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,320
Yeah, it's hard to see what that
catalyst is going to be. 

1059
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,000
Maybe we'll we'll be shocked. 
We're going to close the show 

1060
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,800
here and just say that. 
But this tweet from DGMD, like 

1061
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,360
kind of drops my jaw there. 
Yesterday when I saw this, I saw

1062
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,880
you retweeted as well, Sam. 
He, he, he priced our current 

1063
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:39,240
NFTS in ETH as of the December 
16th, 2024 prices. 

1064
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:43,200
So four months ago crypto punks 
are at 14.9 ETH in those ET 

1065
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:47,080
terms. 
Pudgies are at 3, squiggles are 

1066
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,000
1.5. 
I mean this is. 

1067
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,720
Someone forgot to tell this guy 
that one ETH is 1 ETH man. 

1068
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,360
So I I think it's fair to be a 
little disappointed in some of 

1069
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:04,120
the price action. 
Do you guys, it is like I love 

1070
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,880
punks, man. 
I'm like I'm I'm a huge I just I

1071
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,400
I I'm AI have like the 
collector's FOMO. 

1072
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:10,640
I like them. 
Like every time I announce the 

1073
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,120
punks, I'm like, damn, I kind of
want to know one. 

1074
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,560
Like, I really like punks, but 
yeah, you have to be. 

1075
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,560
Worried about the fact that like
this. 

1076
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:18,800
Thing that has nothing to do 
with. 

1077
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,800
Punks like the ETH price is kind
of like going to be guiding 

1078
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:23,920
your. 
Future we're down. 

1079
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,600
So it's better for worse. 
The the punk Bitcoin spreads 

1080
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,080
going the wrong way. 
The punk Bitcoin spread is going

1081
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:30,880
the wrong way, and it's all 
because of freaking Ethereum. 

1082
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,640
But we will continue to track it
almost daily on this show 

1083
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,160
because it is one of my favorite
spreads and I agree with you 

1084
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:39,600
that punks are incredibly 
collectible. 

1085
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,920
And I also hope to to have 
another one like this one, for 

1086
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,360
instance this beautiful blonde. 
You like the blonde girl? 

1087
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,880
Incredible punk, that is. 
You know, it was a really good 

1088
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,400
tweet that I saw about this, 
this NFT thing recently. 

1089
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,840
It was actually from Kevin 
Degods, who I believe what left 

1090
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,400
the gods like well before the 
downfall, right? 

1091
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:03,400
He said here's the real reason 
most NFT projects failed. 

1092
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,920
They mistook speculation for 
product market fit. 

1093
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,040
And it really does kind of, I 
mean, can you say it any 

1094
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:11,880
simpler? 
That's that's probably. 

1095
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:16,640
Say that again they mistook. 
Yeah, they speculation for 

1096
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,520
product market Fay. 
Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, I mean 

1097
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,400
the, the, it's the, it's the 
issue that all. 

1098
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,240
Crypto faces AI face the same 
thing I mean, I, I, I actually 

1099
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:27,600
say it was more cute with AI 
where there was this idea that 

1100
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,680
like. 
Look at NVIDIA. 

1101
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,840
Like AI is going to be huge A. 
IXBT is the way you do that in. 

1102
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,960
Crypto and suddenly, you know, 
virtuals is a $3 billion token 

1103
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:41,200
and AIXBT is hundreds of 
millions of dollars and it was 

1104
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,840
but at the end of the day, it 
was all speculation driven. 

1105
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:48,000
You know, it's just and it, it 
can be hard and I do like that I

1106
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,640
do still like, I still like the,
the collectible product market 

1107
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,760
fit. 
I think that that that the the 

1108
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,880
collectible product market fit 
is there, but one other tokens 

1109
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,760
became utility tokens. 
It becomes very hard to grow 

1110
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,240
into the price points. 
The price points are just too 

1111
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:04,080
high. 
Yeah, even even at current. 

1112
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,840
Prices like 10s of thousands of 
dollars for apes or whatever. 

1113
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,680
Like for something that's 
anything but a collectible I 

1114
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,080
think is is going to be hard to 
fill. 

1115
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,000
You could argue it's a 
collectible. 

1116
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:16,680
And I think that that's the best
argument for it. 

1117
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:20,800
I think the bull case for scarce
good digital collectibles is 

1118
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:25,120
strong as ever and getting 
stronger Brahmas with the the 

1119
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,920
non scarce ones and and then how
do you get into that? 

1120
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,400
Or the non collectible ones. 
You know, it's like, I think we 

1121
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,080
like most of the stuff just 
doesn't have Brahmanas. 

1122
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,240
Like I, you know, mutant apes, 
for example, like how many 

1123
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,040
people are like, damn, I really 
want, you know, a grin mutant 

1124
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,840
ape right now. 
Like, you know, I just, I just, 

1125
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,480
I don't know if it ever crossed 
that threshold to which people 

1126
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,400
are really like. 
This is going to be valuable in 

1127
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,640
10 years. 
Whereas I think there is there 

1128
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,280
is a lot of assumption or at 
least speculation that punks 

1129
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:56,920
will be like that. 
There's something about the 

1130
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,000
narrative and and and the. 
Provenance that they would. 

1131
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:03,080
Yeah, I agree. 
We'll we'll see what what tests 

1132
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,200
the what stands the test of 
time. 

1133
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,760
Folks, we're 4 minutes over fun 
conversation day. 

1134
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,960
Sam, thank you so much for 
joining us. 

1135
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,800
But that is going to be it. 
That is our show. 

1136
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,520
I want to thank our listeners. 
As always, I want to thank our 

1137
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:17,040
partners. 
Thank my coast and Sam for 

1138
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:17,720
joining us. 
Folks. 

1139
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,840
We'll be back tomorrow at 10:00 
AM Eastern to close out the 

1140
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,520
week. 
Till then, go make it a great 

1141
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:21,720
day. 
Bye.