1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:04,840 Another beautiful day to have a beautiful day. 2 00:00:04,990 --> 00:00:10,890 I got my co-host in the house who is attempting to go into 3 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:13,010 hibernation. Mandel. 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,310 I don't. I am doing great. 5 00:00:17,510 --> 00:00:18,950 I'm doing great. I'm here to. 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,150 To defend myself if I'm honest, like. 7 00:00:26,330 --> 00:00:32,200 No one's allowed to say anything critical, but you are here to 8 00:00:32,210 --> 00:00:34,860 defend yourself. You are going to be put in the 9 00:00:34,870 --> 00:00:39,300 hot seat today and it's just you and I though I as soon as I 10 00:00:39,310 --> 00:00:42,310 started the space let me send rug radio another co-host and I 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:43,800 already sent one. I'm gonna try another one. 12 00:00:43,810 --> 00:00:45,600 We got rugged like this space has got rugged. 13 00:00:45,710 --> 00:00:49,440 But the second I started the new space, like the second I started 14 00:00:49,450 --> 00:00:53,760 it, first person that came on was bit God and he requested to 15 00:00:53,770 --> 00:00:56,100 speak somebody You fuck it. But I said big God on. 16 00:00:56,110 --> 00:00:57,720 I guess he wants to hang with the boys today. 17 00:00:57,870 --> 00:01:00,870 So we'll have him on on stage, go to you maybe a couple of 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,030 times. He was good with you, but but we 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,900 are here. Let me just reshare the space in 20 00:01:06,910 --> 00:01:09,870 the broadcast, because it's been a long time since I got that 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,130 road, actually. But we're here and we're gonna 22 00:01:12,140 --> 00:01:15,930 post the video so we're actually live on audio and on video 23 00:01:15,940 --> 00:01:18,830 across every single platform on the surface of the Earth. 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,370 I've been seeing some twitch comments lately. 25 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,220 I gotta say a pretty out of pocket comments coming out of 26 00:01:25,230 --> 00:01:29,260 twitch. So it is what it is, but I don't 27 00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:30,600 know if you've been reading on the side. 28 00:01:30,610 --> 00:01:33,640 Sometimes has a twitch and it's like the most craziest stuff As 29 00:01:33,650 --> 00:01:40,100 usual, GMF, Tanya, Roberto Zolt, Yano Bombs, Conk and everybody 30 00:01:40,110 --> 00:01:44,380 in the audience. So anyways, today on the show 31 00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:47,940 today, today I had my topics and then we got rugged. 32 00:01:48,010 --> 00:01:54,370 But it's October over Mando turns bearish is the crypto head 33 00:01:54,380 --> 00:02:03,000 industry blur Season 2 has a date and it's not in 20-30 which 34 00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:07,040 is pretty pretty crazy though I mean I'm pretty sure anyways any 35 00:02:07,050 --> 00:02:10,479 whatever NFT roundup, quite some news coming out of the NFT 36 00:02:10,490 --> 00:02:12,470 space. The cryptos notably selling for 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,780 1000 deaths gutter cat getting acquired and whatnot. 38 00:02:16,790 --> 00:02:19,450 So there's there's some news coming out of there and last but 39 00:02:19,460 --> 00:02:21,300 not least will be joined by met AMS. 40 00:02:21,410 --> 00:02:23,740 So dope conference, you're probably going to be seeing us 41 00:02:23,850 --> 00:02:27,180 at the beginning of November the same time as break point. 42 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,110 So I break points are pretty big one. 43 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,320 Oh oh damn, I see where's there? I don't know what am I gonna do 44 00:02:32,330 --> 00:02:34,770 with two bears on the show? It's gonna be crazy cause I got 45 00:02:34,780 --> 00:02:39,910 OB&O is my my, my bull bull. Bearish or like in in general. 46 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:44,340 I think Wiz is long, right? This is long when the markets up 47 00:02:44,350 --> 00:02:48,600 and he's short when the market. You know, where's this, where's 48 00:02:48,610 --> 00:02:51,180 this whizzes, Which is an interesting character, you know, 49 00:02:51,190 --> 00:02:55,440 it depends how the timelines feeling and he's got he'll go by 50 00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:58,150 timeline. You know it depends on whether 51 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,120 his knee is hurting or not. But he's there so so maybe we'll 52 00:03:02,130 --> 00:03:04,260 get him on as well. But anyways, as usual, this show 53 00:03:04,270 --> 00:03:09,040 is powered by Kraken, so check out krakenftxkraken.com/rug 54 00:03:09,050 --> 00:03:11,640 Radio to give it a look. And what's up? 55 00:03:11,650 --> 00:03:15,370 Roberto's asking is Meadow chubbier? 56 00:03:15,430 --> 00:03:17,150 I I don't think he's looking chubbier. 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,610 Myself, no, I don't believe so. I don't think you. 58 00:03:21,620 --> 00:03:22,630 Look too. More hair. 59 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:25,230 Like my hair look weird. Different camera angle as well 60 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,190 today. Maybe that's it. 61 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:33,380 I don't know enough. You don't look chubbier, though. 62 00:03:34,630 --> 00:03:36,550 I don't know if you saw me recently. 63 00:03:36,610 --> 00:03:37,820 No, you don't. The same weight. 64 00:03:37,830 --> 00:03:40,160 So dude, motherfucker has this guy. 65 00:03:40,170 --> 00:03:43,140 He's got a craziest triceps. I've ever felt this cause guys 66 00:03:43,150 --> 00:03:46,800 triceps are like the size of my wrist. 67 00:03:47,130 --> 00:03:50,440 It was cert absurd. I was like sheesh look at these 68 00:03:50,450 --> 00:03:53,190 triceps. But anyways, anyways, so we want 69 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,300 to get this party started and disrespect and get to the 70 00:03:57,310 --> 00:03:59,400 market. It's been $100 million worth of 71 00:03:59,410 --> 00:04:02,400 liquidations and sell offs mainly in alt Their market has 72 00:04:02,410 --> 00:04:04,820 been selling off. You know, I'm seeing a lot of 73 00:04:04,830 --> 00:04:06,790 bearish sentiment on the timeline. 74 00:04:06,860 --> 00:04:08,860 We've gone from October to reck Tober. 75 00:04:08,870 --> 00:04:11,330 Samantha, why don't you give us a ATL or what's happening in the 76 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:14,090 market today? Yeah it was bad yesterday. 77 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:18,250 I think ETH bottomed around 1550. 78 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,980 Bitcoin went down to 27.2. Most old coins were down about 3 79 00:04:22,990 --> 00:04:26,090 to 5%. I would say a lot of 80 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:27,470 liquidations. We then bounce. 81 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,070 Bitcoin kind of went back to almost unchanged over the day. 82 00:04:30,150 --> 00:04:34,610 It was only down just shy of 1%. ETH is still hanging out below 83 00:04:34,620 --> 00:04:38,580 1600. And all kinds of also 84 00:04:38,590 --> 00:04:40,720 underperformed. Bitcoin dominance is a three 85 00:04:40,730 --> 00:04:43,680 month high. I think that your Bitcoin ratio 86 00:04:43,690 --> 00:04:45,860 is something like a 15 month low as well. 87 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:51,050 So it was bearish for some parts of the market and I would say 88 00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:55,860 bullish for others. Obviously yesterday you had the 89 00:04:55,870 --> 00:04:58,430 market initially reacted pretty badly to what's been going on in 90 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,740 Israel. So stocks went lower, oil was 91 00:05:01,750 --> 00:05:05,810 higher and then by the end of the day stocks kind of were 92 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:09,950 higher, yields were lower and general macro had a bit of a 93 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,580 better day yesterday. So I think that's partly what 94 00:05:12,590 --> 00:05:17,520 caused the the, the bounce in in crypto or at least in Bitcoin. 95 00:05:17,690 --> 00:05:21,580 And then this morning I need to double check, but it looks like 96 00:05:21,590 --> 00:05:23,620 we're opening slightly higher last time. 97 00:05:23,730 --> 00:05:27,880 Actually we're up about nought .5% and bond yields are down 98 00:05:27,890 --> 00:05:32,260 even further again today. So it looks slightly better on 99 00:05:32,270 --> 00:05:35,400 macro. And the only real thing to 100 00:05:35,410 --> 00:05:38,990 benefit from that has been Bitcoin where dominance is going 101 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,690 higher. So you weren't, I mean yesterday 102 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:44,960 you were on, but for the market part I didn't have you on. 103 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,040 I was talking to was talking to Olivia about the price of oil 104 00:05:49,050 --> 00:05:50,920 and everything. And obviously the impacts of 105 00:05:50,930 --> 00:05:53,830 what's happening in the Middle East at the moment is these 106 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:56,630 impacts are still obviously probably still going, it's 107 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:57,810 obviously still going on right now. 108 00:05:57,820 --> 00:05:59,470 But what are what are your thoughts on all that? 109 00:06:01,210 --> 00:06:02,160 Anything. Oil. 110 00:06:02,170 --> 00:06:06,020 Oil has dropped like 12% in in the last, In the last, it had 111 00:06:06,030 --> 00:06:08,450 been going on an uptrend. It was approaching $100 and then 112 00:06:08,460 --> 00:06:11,980 it dropped very, very rapidly when stocks started to drop. 113 00:06:11,990 --> 00:06:17,160 So it's up, but it's not even as high as it was last week, let's 114 00:06:17,170 --> 00:06:19,360 put it that way, or maybe 10 days ago. 115 00:06:19,370 --> 00:06:22,260 So it's up, it's up about four or 5%. 116 00:06:23,410 --> 00:06:25,890 There have been some. The oil market is like there's 117 00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:27,990 so many big factors. Part of it's to do with like 118 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,690 Russia and some of its export bans and part of it's to do with 119 00:06:31,780 --> 00:06:34,050 demand seemingly falling off a Cliff. 120 00:06:34,580 --> 00:06:38,110 And part of it's to do with the strategic, like it's a supply 121 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,470 and demand thing as much as it is about macro. 122 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,330 But yeah, generally or in the Middle East means oil higher, so 123 00:06:45,340 --> 00:06:51,000 oil went up and that that could be bearish because the Fed again 124 00:06:51,010 --> 00:06:53,570 might have to raise rates. But interestingly on the back of 125 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:56,010 this. Yields actually dropped because. 126 00:06:57,230 --> 00:06:59,940 Or like bond yields are often seen as a safe haven to people 127 00:06:59,950 --> 00:07:01,320 investing them when when there's more. 128 00:07:01,330 --> 00:07:06,140 So we we didn't necessarily have the impact that people thought 129 00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:08,040 they would have to raise rates because it was higher. 130 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:11,460 So it's kind of a mixed bag, like very difficult to work out 131 00:07:11,470 --> 00:07:14,410 what this does. You don't have. 132 00:07:14,420 --> 00:07:16,680 You have no idea how that develops it either. 133 00:07:17,110 --> 00:07:22,960 But I don't have a strong view on what that means for macro in 134 00:07:23,010 --> 00:07:25,740 many ways that you can have various different impacts, 135 00:07:25,820 --> 00:07:29,460 particularly in how it develops. But yeah, for crypto it meant 136 00:07:29,470 --> 00:07:32,330 that. It it meant that bond yields 137 00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:36,320 were lower, and that generally took Bitcoin slightly higher to 138 00:07:36,330 --> 00:07:39,710 gold, slightly higher gold than having a good few days. 139 00:07:39,770 --> 00:07:42,540 So that digital gold narrative was the strongest one again 140 00:07:42,550 --> 00:07:45,410 yesterday. Alright, well I guess we'll see 141 00:07:45,420 --> 00:07:48,710 where that keeps going, but it's definitely not looking too great 142 00:07:49,340 --> 00:07:51,270 yet. Been following quite closely. 143 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,510 I don't know if you've been obviously I'm sure you have with 144 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,100 the minutes and stuff. But what's happened in the 145 00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:57,650 Middle East, it's not looking to have been we. 146 00:07:57,660 --> 00:07:59,990 I don't think we've gone any further in terms of. 147 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:02,890 Well, I think it's gonna happen now. 148 00:08:02,940 --> 00:08:07,420 I think it's a very, it's a very difficult scenario right now 149 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:09,970 because there's obviously there's a lot of things that 150 00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:11,770 have been going on recently which is like a thawing of 151 00:08:11,780 --> 00:08:16,070 relationship between Israel and and Saudi Arabia, UAE, there's a 152 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:22,130 lot of Bahran who basically fund the masses like it doesn't want 153 00:08:22,140 --> 00:08:24,570 that to happen. So this, this, this conflict can 154 00:08:24,580 --> 00:08:29,570 also be seen in a wider view of a Saudi Iran, sorry, Saudi 155 00:08:29,580 --> 00:08:33,000 Arabia Iran conflict as well. Both of them are trying to get 156 00:08:33,010 --> 00:08:36,990 nuclear bombs at the moment, so and neither of them want to 157 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,419 derail the ability to get that. So it's like it's just a mess in 158 00:08:41,429 --> 00:08:44,550 my opinion and it's obviously horrific for everyone there and 159 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:46,980 it's a horrific situation. But yeah, I think this probably 160 00:08:46,990 --> 00:08:49,320 escalates from here rather than de escalating my opinion. 161 00:08:50,170 --> 00:08:55,240 Yeah, I have a few people on like notifications on and trying 162 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:59,120 to follow as much as possible. But also man, I have to say X 163 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:03,590 has become a cesspool of like misinformation and traffic 164 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,580 content. Have you have I've. 165 00:09:05,590 --> 00:09:08,010 I've been having a few conversations with that with 166 00:09:08,740 --> 00:09:11,390 with with some people. But have you noticed the same 167 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,470 thing on your end? It's crazy dude. 168 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,120 Like. I personally, I mean, I I got 169 00:09:16,130 --> 00:09:19,490 ill on Friday. Yeah, that's true. 170 00:09:19,660 --> 00:09:23,610 But I was, if you noticed, of those four or five days, I just 171 00:09:23,620 --> 00:09:25,950 didn't post anything I wasn't enjoying beyond the app. 172 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,040 Because I thought. It was horrific and I wasn't 173 00:09:28,050 --> 00:09:29,880 feeling well, so I was just like, no, I'm just not going to 174 00:09:29,890 --> 00:09:34,120 be on the app. And yeah it's it is a bit like 175 00:09:34,130 --> 00:09:36,830 that. I mean, as soon as the content 176 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,650 philtres were like turned off, remember you saw all these like 177 00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:41,780 fights. Remember it was like what more 178 00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:43,450 violence you saw on the time I straight away. 179 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,550 That is human nature to a certain extent. 180 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:50,230 I know, like, people don't want to admit it, but like, that does 181 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,730 grab attention. It does. 182 00:09:51,740 --> 00:09:54,970 And you see these, like, people stocking culture wars on the 183 00:09:54,980 --> 00:09:56,370 timeline and that grabs attention. 184 00:09:56,380 --> 00:09:59,450 Like we kind of debate to outrage. 185 00:09:59,460 --> 00:10:03,030 Or like what can provoke outrage or what can provoke your 186 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,430 attention, even if it's graphic. And so that's the way X has been 187 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,350 going for a while now. Went from fights to now just 188 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,730 like murder and dead bodies you see pretty regularly on the 189 00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:19,930 timeline and in war it often leads to like sensationalist 190 00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:23,800 takes or like. Just misinformation sometimes, 191 00:10:24,830 --> 00:10:27,060 they said. We're fighting like propaganda 192 00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:33,520 misinformation, graphic content. And then of course like two 193 00:10:33,530 --> 00:10:36,620 sides usually multiple side sides arguing. 194 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:39,860 So it's been it's been a it's been intense it's I was talking 195 00:10:39,870 --> 00:10:42,080 to a few people about this actually today that we've all 196 00:10:42,090 --> 00:10:45,420 been noticing the same thing and it's just a lot like I I woke up 197 00:10:45,430 --> 00:10:49,080 very early today to go golfing. He's not here or else I'd be 198 00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:51,660 busting your chops right now for ten with 10 minutes of golf talk 199 00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:53,460 because I did score my best score right now. 200 00:10:53,570 --> 00:10:59,430 Yeah, but, but, but, but, but, but wake up at like 5. 201 00:10:59,540 --> 00:11:01,960 Something was before sunrise open. 202 00:11:02,050 --> 00:11:04,540 Open my feed. The first thing I saw was like 203 00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:08,570 some insane bro, like insane graphic video and that was just 204 00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:11,500 like, yeah, no, not at 6:00 in the morning, you know, I mean, 205 00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:16,120 like I can take it usually ish, you know, Especially after these 206 00:11:16,130 --> 00:11:17,030 days. I feel like I've become 207 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,940 desensitised. But then I was just like, yeah. 208 00:11:18,950 --> 00:11:20,440 I'm not having that. Like not. 209 00:11:20,450 --> 00:11:22,250 It's insane. So just shut down the app. 210 00:11:22,260 --> 00:11:24,100 So I think. I think that's for a lot of 211 00:11:24,110 --> 00:11:25,900 people, right? Like it's a lot of people. 212 00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:28,960 And also to a certain extent, there's. 213 00:11:29,790 --> 00:11:31,650 The purity and not having censorship. 214 00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:34,650 But as a business, are you really gonna have advertisers 215 00:11:34,660 --> 00:11:36,290 advertising on this platform right now? 216 00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:39,390 Like, no. When you're seeing that, that's 217 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,310 like 40% of the content on your timeline, no, it doesn't 218 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:48,560 necessarily like it's basically become almost live leaks, which 219 00:11:48,570 --> 00:11:51,070 is like that really horrific graphic video website. 220 00:11:52,650 --> 00:11:56,410 And don't see anyone like that, must get some engagement, but 221 00:11:56,420 --> 00:11:58,020 normally you don't have big advertisers on that. 222 00:11:58,030 --> 00:12:03,360 So I think, yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how that 223 00:12:03,370 --> 00:12:05,420 develops. Yeah, definitely, definitely 224 00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:08,180 weird stuff. So that's why I wanted to bring 225 00:12:08,190 --> 00:12:11,040 forward and I don't blame you for not wanting to be on the 226 00:12:11,050 --> 00:12:13,740 platform so much. It's definitely weird times and 227 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:16,440 we don't really love that anyways so on the back of the 228 00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:18,940 second topic want to bring up today obviously on the back of 229 00:12:18,950 --> 00:12:24,110 the market talk you know is a is a there's a tweet from our great 230 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,810 friend with I see him with the audience set you I sent you an 231 00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:28,860 invite you know take it and comes chat with us. 232 00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:32,690 But will there ever be another bull. 233 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:35,630 And of course sometimes the joke is like what if we crap forever 234 00:12:36,620 --> 00:12:38,110 you know. And it's funny because that 235 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,820 that's come up a few times for me in the last few days and and 236 00:12:41,830 --> 00:12:44,400 I'm gonna, I'm just going to share my screen here so you 237 00:12:44,410 --> 00:12:46,670 could all see the tweet that I'm following. 238 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:49,410 So it was your tweet, Mando. Which is why I've been, you 239 00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:51,310 know, kind of bugging you all morning about you being 240 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,440 embarrassed. You take bearish, you know, you 241 00:12:55,450 --> 00:12:57,820 put a tweet out today. It's my guess is the true crypto 242 00:12:57,830 --> 00:13:00,440 bull market will take longer than 2024. 243 00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:02,900 Right now crypto offers a decentralised store of value and 244 00:13:02,910 --> 00:13:05,880 transaction network while debt and explodes and Fiat 245 00:13:05,890 --> 00:13:11,490 currencies, the values blah blah blah and a bunch of other stuff 246 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:15,100 that you wrote. But wizard is Soho came in hot 247 00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:19,870 here and says LOL what if there is never a bull market in crypto 248 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,910 again? Also how is goat devaluing if 249 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:27,570 dollar is the strongest it's ever been and is the biggest 250 00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:30,850 safe haven at the moment? Crypto has been around for what 251 00:13:30,860 --> 00:13:34,010 15 years plus now it's old boomer technology. 252 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,730 And then he went on, I think and that's what you sent me but to 253 00:13:37,740 --> 00:13:44,140 probably tweet the most bearish, I I called Mando bearish and 254 00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:45,720 then he said you want to see bearish? 255 00:13:45,730 --> 00:13:49,740 And he sent me with his tweet, like literally and is arguably 256 00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:55,280 the most bearish take I have ever read in my life on Twitter. 257 00:13:55,370 --> 00:14:00,530 And he says the only thing that has any narrative is Bitcoin. 258 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,090 Everything else is trash and has no real world use at all other 259 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:07,470 than gambling, money laundering and scams. 260 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,450 I mean, what do you think about this? 261 00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:12,250 He calls script, an old dying technology that has no real 262 00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:15,070 world purpose other than speculation, scams or gambling. 263 00:14:15,140 --> 00:14:18,050 This is after 15 years and billions of investments to grow. 264 00:14:18,060 --> 00:14:21,830 It look quite the opposite stance of Jesse Pollack that was 265 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,060 on the show and saying that for the first time since he joined 266 00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:26,530 the space, he feels like there's some real infrastructure in 267 00:14:26,540 --> 00:14:30,460 place and some very obviously very bullish sentiment, right? 268 00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:33,140 And I feel like, I feel like you're not feeling the same 269 00:14:33,150 --> 00:14:35,920 Mando, you're not the same person as you were with me the 270 00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:38,050 other day when we were hosting together in the same room. 271 00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:43,110 So explain yourself. It's not that I am, it was. 272 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,790 It was on the show because he's he's on. 273 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,050 Now he's on. Yeah, yeah, I'm not. 274 00:14:48,060 --> 00:14:49,280 Yeah, I'm here. NOT like. 275 00:14:50,010 --> 00:14:52,510 So for example I got I came into crypto in 2021. 276 00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:56,400 At that time I came in because of the NFT cycle as long as 277 00:14:56,410 --> 00:15:00,470 everyone else did. And for me, at that time, I 278 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,670 mean, we just had had Defy Summer. 279 00:15:03,570 --> 00:15:07,860 And NFTS were another for me are going to be a huge application 280 00:15:07,870 --> 00:15:11,420 and they ended up seeing these huge massive trading markets on 281 00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:14,830 the back of NFTS and DFI or or DPI farming and all this sort of 282 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,060 stuff. That was a massive driver for me 283 00:15:18,070 --> 00:15:21,330 of the use case of ETH, because it's a programmable blockchain, 284 00:15:21,340 --> 00:15:22,650 right? You can do different things with 285 00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:25,560 it, different applications. And for me, NFTS and D5 286 00:15:25,570 --> 00:15:28,560 presented huge applications at the time for that to happen. 287 00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:34,290 If you even were around 12 months ago, even off TX like the 288 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:38,510 FT market was, it took a hit but it was still still going and 289 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,250 Defy was still going as well. It wasn't that bad and I still 290 00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:47,870 felt like in the rebound there as an application chain was 291 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,600 very, very strong. What we've seen over the last 12 292 00:15:50,610 --> 00:15:52,690 months is a lot of those narratives have gotten even 293 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:56,210 worse. So NFT is obviously I think 294 00:15:56,220 --> 00:15:59,380 we're having the lowest number of volume, it's not just about 295 00:15:59,390 --> 00:16:00,670 the. Diffraction like mincing 296 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,540 amenities, it's like the volatility trading in these in 297 00:16:03,550 --> 00:16:05,640 these assets for it to really like burn gas. 298 00:16:06,460 --> 00:16:10,230 And then with D5, I think with TDR's down about 40% since then 299 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,450 as well. So those two applications have 300 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:15,390 had a very, very tough 2023. And then you take a step back 301 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,670 and you go like what else can you use blockchains for like why 302 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,010 would you need a public Ledger of anything? 303 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,040 And the main things for that is financial systems, it's trade, 304 00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:27,370 it's like sending cash across border. 305 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,760 Probably we're seeing the ability to do borrowing and 306 00:16:32,770 --> 00:16:37,020 lending against assets and other forms of like let's say trad 307 00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:39,980 fibre on the blockchain that's broadly been repurposed as 308 00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:42,460 something called Rwas. So it's the idea that you can, 309 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,640 you know, you can buy treasuries right now, you can lend to 310 00:16:45,650 --> 00:16:49,110 consumers in India right now and different platforms and that's 311 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,830 done about 6X over the last over the last year and you have about 312 00:16:54,890 --> 00:16:57,910 a billion of assets in Rwas right now. 313 00:16:58,550 --> 00:17:03,600 But it's not, it's not at the same level as D5 even now, and 314 00:17:03,610 --> 00:17:06,470 it's not at the same level as what NFTS was, particularly in 315 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,630 terms of trading and the other main things that people say, 316 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,920 like why would you need decentralised Ledger things like 317 00:17:12,930 --> 00:17:15,880 gaming, things like which can be useful. 318 00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:18,900 The whole concept of like a metaverse has really taken off. 319 00:17:18,910 --> 00:17:23,160 But the idea that transactions for game assets could be quite a 320 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:28,329 big thing and we've seen. Other narratives, obviously the 321 00:17:28,339 --> 00:17:30,110 social narrative happened recently. 322 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,190 We've had the, we've had the, we've had various different 323 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,850 gamble gambling narratives. Just kind of kind of speaks to 324 00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:38,850 what Wizards point is. There's like speculation is 325 00:17:38,860 --> 00:17:41,220 still like probably the number one utility right now, but it's 326 00:17:41,230 --> 00:17:43,670 actually continuing to last. Like meme, coin season was 327 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,690 probably the main burner of gas for the last 6-6 months. 328 00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:54,250 But that to me like also and VC funding is at a three-year low, 329 00:17:54,450 --> 00:17:57,700 so like for for ETH to really thrive. 330 00:17:58,950 --> 00:18:03,660 It needs applications and for me, I think that we are still a 331 00:18:03,670 --> 00:18:05,760 while away from those applications being built. 332 00:18:05,770 --> 00:18:10,510 The main ones I can see actually being huge are is RWAS. 333 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,080 It's basically trad file moving on, but that requires not just 334 00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:15,170 things being built, it requires regulations. 335 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,950 Umm, particularly about, like secretary securitization. 336 00:18:20,260 --> 00:18:22,630 The SEC has been giving some waivers to people like Maple 337 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,450 Finance to do stuff with Treasuries, but it could 338 00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:29,100 definitely use some. Use some more clear guidelines 339 00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:31,400 for other people to start putting assets on chain. 340 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:38,070 And so for right now at the main bull case for crypto, if the 341 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,490 applications are not really kicking off is the idea that 342 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:44,340 it's a decentralised or value. It's like a digital gold 343 00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:47,390 narrative. Bitcoin has that narrative right 344 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,250 now. I would argue that ETH is an 345 00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:53,070 even better decentralised store of value than Bitcoin. 346 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,410 I mean, for me ETH has been deflationary. 347 00:18:56,420 --> 00:18:58,430 Right now it's inflationary, but over the last 12 months it's 348 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,570 been deflationary. I actually think the end state 349 00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:05,270 of ethers is. It's more secure. 350 00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:09,460 I think that Bitcoin runs into security problems with time, 351 00:19:09,530 --> 00:19:13,150 but. And I still think programmable 352 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,650 money is is a slightly better system for like building a 353 00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:19,390 payments network anyway. So like, but Bitcoin has that 354 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,190 narrative. Bitcoin has gone through several 355 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,510 cycles. It's the digital goal, which is 356 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,250 why this year Bitcoin has just been trashing, it's been 357 00:19:27,260 --> 00:19:30,670 trashing, it has needed these applications, They haven't 358 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,750 really been happening. And Bitcoin has just been right 359 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,130 where digital gold. And that is attractive in a 360 00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:37,590 world where people are increasingly being like, I'm 361 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,190 worried about a blow up in in debt. 362 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,370 I'm worried about a blow up. And inflation. 363 00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:44,650 I need this like a hedge. Like if you're a billionaire 364 00:19:44,660 --> 00:19:47,420 right now and you're thinking right, how can I hate myself 365 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:48,700 against like a bit of catastrophe? 366 00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:53,850 I'm buying things like gold, uranium, and things like and 367 00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:55,400 things like Bitcoin. So it's got that hedge 368 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:57,240 narrative, and each doesn't really have that. 369 00:19:58,550 --> 00:20:01,090 And I think the other thing about that is that most of the 370 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,970 other ones. Have been completely destroyed. 371 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:10,740 So like there is that it goes Bitcoin 5500 to let's say 550 372 00:20:10,750 --> 00:20:14,090 billion each 200 billion and then it's like Solana at 10, 373 00:20:14,970 --> 00:20:17,000 right. So like it's a massive gap to 374 00:20:17,010 --> 00:20:19,120 the other ones. So people are looking and going 375 00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:21,800 like well, if all the L ones are not really doing much, the risk 376 00:20:21,810 --> 00:20:23,720 reward maybe in some of those is even better. 377 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,780 So you've had some people look again at things like Solana 378 00:20:25,790 --> 00:20:29,180 right now and been like well, I don't think go down that much 379 00:20:29,230 --> 00:20:30,640 and it's probably got more of an upside. 380 00:20:30,690 --> 00:20:33,560 ETH has basically not really much is going on there. 381 00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:36,040 There is more going on in the L twos, but that doesn't really 382 00:20:36,050 --> 00:20:37,980 burn gas in the same way that we need it to. 383 00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:42,360 So it's just a tough spot for youth right now and I think 384 00:20:42,370 --> 00:20:46,160 people who are going like right, we're going to hit 5K NK Earth. 385 00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:50,920 I think you need applications to get there and I think that we 386 00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:53,010 could take a little bit of time for. 387 00:20:53,020 --> 00:20:54,400 That. Yeah. 388 00:20:54,410 --> 00:20:59,720 Alright, so listen, I'm gonna go right now to the Wizard of Soho, 389 00:20:59,790 --> 00:21:03,580 because of course it's your tweet that we're recording for, 390 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,660 for, for the, for the, for the topic of the day. 391 00:21:07,670 --> 00:21:10,360 And then I'm going to go to bit God here who seemed to throw 392 00:21:10,370 --> 00:21:13,080 some some emojis at you regarding your decentralised 393 00:21:13,090 --> 00:21:15,350 Ledger comment here. But wizard? 394 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,700 What do you have to say about your comments today? 395 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,390 You know I I just want to make it very clear it's not that I'm 396 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,250 like price bearish. It's more that I just don't see 397 00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:33,430 like I think there's no place better to make like money than 398 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,310 you can in in crypto just but it's the application right. 399 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:42,590 So like I'm a big fan of meme coins so I think there's no else 400 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,290 nowhere else from a another class that you can make like 401 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:49,090 gains like you can in crypto. So it's not that I'm. 402 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,620 Bearish per se, like I'm very long right now, so the only 403 00:21:53,630 --> 00:21:57,480 thing for me is the long term viability of all these other 404 00:21:57,490 --> 00:22:00,190 coins, right? Like if you look at even like, 405 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,950 you know, like let's look at the automotive industry, like from 406 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,360 when it started there were over like thousand different 407 00:22:06,370 --> 00:22:09,760 automotive companies like in the late 1800s like you know, when 408 00:22:10,090 --> 00:22:13,110 the the automobiles were just getting started or whatever, 409 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,420 right? Or in America alone forget all 410 00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:18,660 the foreign countries, just America only free survived out 411 00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:22,800 of like over 1000. In 1999, 2000likeinthe.com 412 00:22:22,810 --> 00:22:27,080 bubble in the 1st Q1 there was like I think we're like 607 413 00:22:27,090 --> 00:22:30,740 hundred of companies, like tech companies launched, not a single 414 00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:33,060 one of them has like has survived till now. 415 00:22:33,130 --> 00:22:36,620 So my point is that all this other trash that's there, like 416 00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:39,640 it's all going to get consolidated into like Bitcoin 417 00:22:39,650 --> 00:22:42,640 and like you know, eat maybe, possibly and like maybe 418 00:22:42,650 --> 00:22:45,630 something else right. And maybe some meme coins, like 419 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,020 at the fact that Dodge is still a multi billion dollar, you 420 00:22:49,030 --> 00:22:52,530 know, meme coin. Goes to the point and even Shiba 421 00:22:52,540 --> 00:22:54,590 and all that, right? Because again. 422 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,240 What's that So Pepe. It's sure. 423 00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:02,120 I mean it's mind blowing that it's 300 million to be honest 424 00:23:02,130 --> 00:23:05,270 like that that's like absolutely same but it's but that's what 425 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,440 I'm saying like I think the fact that I said that you know the 426 00:23:08,450 --> 00:23:13,380 best use case of crypto is scams, gamble, FY and all that 427 00:23:13,390 --> 00:23:15,330 is actually kind of a bullish statement. 428 00:23:15,340 --> 00:23:18,200 If you change your mindset like if you're like, oh, this is the 429 00:23:18,210 --> 00:23:22,680 next big like, you know, bond market or the next big stock 430 00:23:22,690 --> 00:23:26,720 market and you just kind of retune yourself as like listen. 431 00:23:27,010 --> 00:23:29,650 It's a casino and you know if you if you think about it like 432 00:23:29,660 --> 00:23:31,690 that, there's a lot of money to be made. 433 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:35,430 I mean you can make Gen wealth like almost every week in crypto 434 00:23:35,490 --> 00:23:38,150 if you're like looking at the right meme coins and stuff like 435 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,610 that. I mean there's millions and 436 00:23:39,620 --> 00:23:42,830 millions and millions of volume every day, so you can easily 437 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,850 entry with size and exit with size. 438 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,650 So I'm very bullish on crypto and that sense. 439 00:23:47,660 --> 00:23:52,030 I just I just feel like for me having that grasp like listen 440 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,090 I'm not going to think like Solana is going to go to 500 in 441 00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:57,900 the next year. So if you rewire your mind. 442 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,210 Crypto to focus on what the actual potential, where the 443 00:24:01,220 --> 00:24:03,190 volume is. I think there's there's like a 444 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,980 lot of money to be made. I think long term, yeah, 445 00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:07,950 everything's gonna get consolidated. 446 00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:09,330 Like it happens with every market. 447 00:24:09,340 --> 00:24:12,680 It's gonna get consolidated into just a few things you're not 448 00:24:12,690 --> 00:24:14,160 going to see. Like I don't think you're going 449 00:24:14,170 --> 00:24:16,760 to see anything. Like I think Bitcoin and ether 450 00:24:16,770 --> 00:24:20,800 is the only potential to get through maybe all time high, but 451 00:24:20,810 --> 00:24:22,850 you gotta realise like what the catalyst says. 452 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,330 The catalyst really isn't like applications. 453 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:28,260 The catalyst isn't, you know, whatever. 454 00:24:28,330 --> 00:24:31,350 This may be the catalyst is actually the money flow. 455 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:34,860 There's no money flow coming in like you have a stock market 456 00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:38,790 that's basically like at like all close to all time highs. 457 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,410 Yeah, it's being driven by like you know the big seven like 458 00:24:41,420 --> 00:24:43,410 whatever the the largest tech companies. 459 00:24:43,460 --> 00:24:47,390 But it's still like it's one of the fastest bull market like the 460 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,490 fastest increases in stock prices in like 100 years from 461 00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:54,410 like year to date this year like in in the tech stocks like 462 00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:56,930 NASDAQ especially. So like, there's a lot of money 463 00:24:56,940 --> 00:24:58,540 that's coming in, it's just nothing coming into. 464 00:24:58,630 --> 00:25:01,470 Worked out, crypto only sees excess capital. 465 00:25:01,540 --> 00:25:04,050 Now it's seeing the excess excess capital. 466 00:25:04,060 --> 00:25:06,930 So the first tier of capital that goes, you know, will go 467 00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:10,530 like when money flows through, whether it's investment funds, 468 00:25:10,540 --> 00:25:13,450 whether it's pension funds, whether it's money being printed 469 00:25:13,460 --> 00:25:16,930 from stimulus, whatever it may be, it goes, you know, bonds, it 470 00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:19,970 goes stocks, then it goes a little bit higher risk. 471 00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:24,110 So things like commodities, then it goes to emerging markets and 472 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,230 so on. Then it goes into like emerging 473 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,890 technology, like hot technologies like AI. 474 00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:33,370 Stuff like that then and all of those brackets are filled then 475 00:25:33,380 --> 00:25:35,170 it goes into like high speculative. 476 00:25:35,180 --> 00:25:38,090 So then it flows into crypto. So when you had this stimulus in 477 00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:41,090 like 2020 the the COVID stimulus, that's how the money 478 00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:42,790 flew through. So you had like 2 trillion in 479 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,140 stimulus and you you had like crypto hit like closer to forget 480 00:25:47,150 --> 00:25:49,830 what the Max market cap was like you know like close to 2 481 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,030 trillion. So I think Max the stimulus was 482 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,490 like 2-3 trillion. So say like 5% of that came into 483 00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:58,370 crypto. So given the fact that you know, 484 00:25:58,380 --> 00:26:01,340 usually there's like 5 to 10%. Pretty for the entire crypto 485 00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:04,850 market if you have like you know 5%, like if you have like a 486 00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:07,940 couple billion dollars coming like say like ten $20 billion 487 00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:10,990 come in, you'll see like an entire market pump like you 488 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,400 know, at least like twenty 2530%, right. 489 00:26:14,490 --> 00:26:16,840 So when you have that's the way that's the inflow. 490 00:26:16,890 --> 00:26:19,690 So there's no inflow of that. There's literally like all the 491 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:21,760 money is going into stocks. All the money is going to 492 00:26:21,770 --> 00:26:24,580 emerging markets like India is like seeing like insane amount 493 00:26:24,590 --> 00:26:26,240 of inflows. You're seeing all the money 494 00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:29,380 going into a I private equity. You see money going into crazy 495 00:26:29,390 --> 00:26:32,170 into carbon credits. A climate technology that's 496 00:26:32,180 --> 00:26:33,890 getting like huge amounts of inflows. 497 00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:36,090 So you're not seeing that much coming to crypto. 498 00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:39,570 What will come into crypto is if you see like, you know, a a big 499 00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:41,510 stimulus. So when all those brackets get 500 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,230 full and they're maxed out and they start hitting there like, 501 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,530 you know, tops, that's when you see the flow coming into crypto 502 00:26:47,540 --> 00:26:50,170 and you don't need much because there's not so much liquidity in 503 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:52,810 the market. Like even small inflows that 504 00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:55,020 come in can pump them. It's kind of like a meme coin, 505 00:26:55,030 --> 00:26:56,570 right? Like the entire market is kind 506 00:26:56,580 --> 00:26:59,010 of like a meme coin where you have small liquidity. 507 00:26:59,020 --> 00:27:01,310 So if you have a big, you have a big inflow. 508 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,330 You got a big pump, but also the same reason you get a big dump 509 00:27:04,340 --> 00:27:07,630 as well, right, which is why we we crashed so much well to other 510 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,910 assets. So that's kind of my view. 511 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,690 It's not that you know we're very clear. 512 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:14,870 I think it's a very fair thing I posted and I feel like the fact 513 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,730 that many didn't push back much yo makes me more. 514 00:27:17,740 --> 00:27:20,330 Time saying you're trying to get my boy into hibernation. 515 00:27:20,340 --> 00:27:22,070 He's like in the text that we mean. 516 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,810 Oh, he's like, I'm not bearish. I'm like, you're not bearish, 517 00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:26,000 but it looks like you're about to go into hibernation. 518 00:27:26,010 --> 00:27:27,880 I'm trying. To stop, but exactly right. 519 00:27:27,890 --> 00:27:30,640 So if you're going in and I think it's good to recognise the 520 00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:32,600 week, the week. Agree with you. 521 00:27:32,610 --> 00:27:35,850 By the way, I understand why, why you own something. 522 00:27:35,860 --> 00:27:38,370 And I I said to myself, I've said himself, ohh, yeah, like 523 00:27:38,380 --> 00:27:41,160 why do I own this? And the thing that I really like 524 00:27:41,210 --> 00:27:45,420 about owning crypto right now is that it is a bit of a safe 525 00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:47,500 haven. And I think that that's going to 526 00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:49,260 be a valuable friend. And if you see the people with 527 00:27:49,270 --> 00:27:52,880 all the wild predictions for crypto, it's all that you know 528 00:27:53,230 --> 00:27:56,550 things are looking bad. Like crypto will provide the 529 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,700 lifeboat, all this sort of stuff like Arthur Hayes, I don't know 530 00:28:00,710 --> 00:28:03,270 Kathy Wood. Then the ETF would also help 531 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,640 with inflows. But the for me, I feel like you 532 00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:10,930 need to have the an understanding of why you're an 533 00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:14,790 asset and for me ETH as programmable money that you can 534 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,760 build applications on a $200 billion valuation. 535 00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:22,030 I think you have to recognise that maybe the applications are 536 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,960 not really popping off right now and that it's not that I'm 537 00:28:24,970 --> 00:28:26,800 bearish on it. It's just that I think it can 538 00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:28,980 be. There's a reason why it's being 539 00:28:28,990 --> 00:28:32,700 outcompeted and you just got this in this market by let's say 540 00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:35,520 Bitcoin and and I think it leaves it a little bit 541 00:28:35,530 --> 00:28:38,020 vulnerable because without those applications and a lot of these 542 00:28:38,030 --> 00:28:41,540 L ones have very similar arguments like we saw, we saw 543 00:28:41,550 --> 00:28:44,140 AVAX pump randomly because there was one app on it. 544 00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:47,010 When there's such low valuations, people will be like 545 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,600 well you know there's nothing going on anyway for these 546 00:28:49,610 --> 00:28:51,620 applications. So why don't if one thing 547 00:28:51,630 --> 00:28:54,640 happens like Solana gets one payments ecosystem it can pump 548 00:28:54,650 --> 00:28:58,480 massively whereas whereas for ether it's kind of already 549 00:28:58,490 --> 00:29:00,820 pricing that in. So that's why it's not a not 550 00:29:00,830 --> 00:29:04,280 bullish on that as a narrative and and I agree with you Wiz, I 551 00:29:04,290 --> 00:29:09,740 think speculation is like one of the main things like let's Defy 552 00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:13,020 and NFTS is just speculation. It's just another it's a layer 553 00:29:13,030 --> 00:29:16,320 of speculation on top of speculation. 554 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,470 But I still think that requires applications like we can just 555 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,950 continually have mean coin seasons. 556 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,220 But I think meme coins isn't enough to like drive. 557 00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:28,630 I know 5. 10X man, that's that's the thing, right? 558 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,410 Is that it's it's fine. It's fine to be a speculative 559 00:29:31,420 --> 00:29:34,290 asset like like think about this, if you like, you invest in 560 00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,210 a lot of private equity, right. So if somebody came to you and 561 00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:40,550 was like, hey, I have this this smart contract, various 562 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,810 blockchain, it has a lot of like users right now but it's mostly 563 00:29:45,820 --> 00:29:47,310 meme coins. But they also have this like 564 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,140 MPs. But we're going to our valuation 565 00:29:50,150 --> 00:29:53,810 right now is 200 billion. Would you put in like 50% of 566 00:29:53,820 --> 00:30:00,970 your net worth into that? Private equity. 200 billion 567 00:30:00,980 --> 00:30:02,290 valuation. They're coming in and this is 568 00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:05,150 what they give you. That's what I mean it's it's 569 00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:08,330 it's not even that I don't think that I love the idea of the 570 00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:11,330 narrative that like it is the casino grip. 571 00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:13,610 Like ETH has got this casino narrative to it. 572 00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:16,810 Like you can continue to speculate on it but the two 573 00:30:16,820 --> 00:30:19,780 vulnerabilities, and this is me with and I have big effects. 574 00:30:19,790 --> 00:30:23,190 The two vulnerabilities I see right now for the narrative is 575 00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:26,490 #1. The only really casino happening 576 00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:29,650 right now consistently is things like meme coins, everything that 577 00:30:29,660 --> 00:30:33,610 you had French like a lot and a lot of the other casino aspects 578 00:30:33,620 --> 00:30:37,290 are moving to L twos which doesn't help the gas narrative. 579 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:40,350 It doesn't like ethers become inflationary because French was 580 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,720 on an L2 for example and 12 months ago that was on L1. 581 00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:50,150 And the second thing is that the valuation is very high versus 582 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,230 other places, other casinos. I don't know how to describe 583 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,130 that, but like you can run a casino and a lot of other ones 584 00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:01,480 and when they were like 20 to 50 and ETH has got this, this like 585 00:31:01,490 --> 00:31:05,350 walled garden of NFTS and D Phi and like everything going on, 586 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,120 it's like obviously you prefer earth. 587 00:31:08,260 --> 00:31:13,090 But when these valuations are so low and they're down 90%, right, 588 00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:16,290 they are like 5. Most L ones are like souls at 589 00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:20,060 9:00, but most of them are like 5-1 application can really just 590 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:23,870 drive a chain. So it can be, it just leaves it 591 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,290 a little bit vulnerable. That's all I think, and that's 592 00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:30,750 what basically I was saying in that tweet, is that we have to 593 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,960 recognise why is he underperforming? 594 00:31:33,250 --> 00:31:35,100 Why is why are these other things happening? 595 00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:37,060 Like why are people shitting on it so regularly? 596 00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:39,400 And it's because the narratives around crypto have slightly 597 00:31:39,410 --> 00:31:43,720 changed. Is this a temporary short term 598 00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:45,490 saying cause like the the whole like? 599 00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:47,960 I've seen the narrative change around Earth over the last few 600 00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:52,330 days and like a couple of weeks ago when October started, it was 601 00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:56,770 the other way around, like when Earth pump. 1770 that time on 602 00:31:56,780 --> 00:32:01,300 the show, everyone's euphoric in the timeline and and by thank 603 00:32:01,310 --> 00:32:02,890 God we didn't celebrate right this time we were. 604 00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:04,140 Smart. But you know what the problem 605 00:32:04,150 --> 00:32:06,360 with that is? That people don't ever look at 606 00:32:06,510 --> 00:32:10,120 relative, but if you look at the BTC chart that tells you 607 00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:10,760 everything, you. Need. 608 00:32:10,770 --> 00:32:11,760 Yeah, we were just looking at it. 609 00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:14,850 The earlier you just been it's down 10 points in the month 610 00:32:14,860 --> 00:32:16,880 right. It's just been I've been a lot 611 00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:17,840 more than that in the year right. 612 00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:19,150 It's been it's been a it's been it's. 613 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,430 Been worse? Let me pull it up for you. 614 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,770 Yeah, it's been a year. Thing. 615 00:32:22,020 --> 00:32:24,270 It's horrible. It's like, but listen, I'm gonna 616 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:30,550 eat magically like like all 20%. Eat or in like Ethan of tease, 617 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,230 right. Like, so I'm in it. 618 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,620 Like I'm, I'm in it with you guys. 619 00:32:33,630 --> 00:32:37,190 But like, I'm just saying like the fact if you can require your 620 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,600 thinking, it makes it better in terms of exiting because then 621 00:32:40,610 --> 00:32:42,200 you're not. Like if you're a narrative built 622 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,890 and I want the narrative that most people have to stick, that 623 00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:48,210 hey, we're going to hit 5K, we're going to hit 10K so that I 624 00:32:48,220 --> 00:32:50,370 can exit. But if you like, if you're like, 625 00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:52,540 you know, especially this show like it's not like there's 626 00:32:52,910 --> 00:32:56,390 there's 188 people like that's not going to affect like if 188 627 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,990 people can exit with like pretty amazing levels like. 628 00:32:59,060 --> 00:33:02,400 Not gonna affect the price. But what if the whole narrative 629 00:33:02,410 --> 00:33:06,020 changes across the board Then it's problem, right? 630 00:33:06,030 --> 00:33:08,480 Because then I then we won't be able to kind of exit. 631 00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:11,700 But the fact that the the the crypto narrative as a whole is 632 00:33:11,710 --> 00:33:15,170 still there like my tweet or Mando or us talking here is not 633 00:33:15,180 --> 00:33:17,280 going to change that. I hope it doesn't change it. 634 00:33:17,330 --> 00:33:20,200 But the few people in our circle, I hope if you build your 635 00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:23,170 narrative that hey it is a speculative asset means that we 636 00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:25,100 should be looking for exit. It shouldn't be something that 637 00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:28,320 you just hope forever, which is what, like maybe Bitcoin you can 638 00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:31,240 hold for like longer. It's like it's which makes sense 639 00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:33,070 like fun. Like it's there's a stronger 640 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,270 narrative and there's a a natural base case for it but 641 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,370 like it it really isn't for like anything else And understanding 642 00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:43,110 that and making sure that like OK that's a speculative asset 643 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,330 means you need to exit if you're gonna speculate asset you need 644 00:33:45,340 --> 00:33:47,380 to make sure you exit. But you're feeling something 645 00:33:47,390 --> 00:33:48,870 like gold. Yeah you hold you know the 646 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,790 narrative for gold is what even though it is also a speculative 647 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,510 asset technically. But gold is just people just 648 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,730 hold like oh you always hold gold like real estate right. 649 00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:59,710 Like you can't go wrong with buying a house like those built 650 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,700 in. And that's great for Bitcoin and 651 00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:04,640 crypto, but if you realise if you're in all these other coins 652 00:34:04,650 --> 00:34:08,270 and assets, yeah, you need to look for excess because you're 653 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,040 not gonna get like if you're like, people argue with me that, 654 00:34:11,110 --> 00:34:14,780 you know, Solana or whatever is going to hit 500 in the next 655 00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:16,679 year, I'm like, what are you talking about? 656 00:34:16,810 --> 00:34:18,620 Like I don't. Know about the next year, but I 657 00:34:18,630 --> 00:34:20,850 wouldn't be surprised to see Solana all time highs in the 658 00:34:20,860 --> 00:34:22,580 next market. See. 659 00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:23,659 I don't think so. I don't think. 660 00:34:25,230 --> 00:34:26,750 From here I think. I think I. 661 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,960 Think if it gets 200 is possible like at best like I I don't 662 00:34:31,969 --> 00:34:34,929 think there's any shot because you think about the volume you 663 00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:38,860 need to generate for at that hit because everyone's going to exit 664 00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:40,679 who have been buying all the way down. 665 00:34:40,690 --> 00:34:42,929 They're going to take whatever pump they can to exit. 666 00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:45,670 Then you need to generate even more volume to like get 667 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,130 everybody an exit bringing no new people who see the potential 668 00:34:49,139 --> 00:34:53,210 for 203 hundred because no one's going to buy 100 unless you see 669 00:34:53,219 --> 00:34:55,460 that, right. So the volume we need is like. 670 00:34:55,530 --> 00:34:58,790 Three to four acts of volume you had in the initial run. 671 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,550 So that's why I said like you need like a 5 to 6 trillion of 672 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,350 stimulus that comes into the economy. 673 00:35:04,420 --> 00:35:08,090 From there you get maybe 5% which will be 3 to 4 acts of 674 00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:11,270 what came into the market in the 2021 run. 675 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,590 So you need this is the same thing with like you know I 676 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,190 always tell you like about the paper I think right the amount 677 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,550 of volume need on pay for it to go back to all time high is like 678 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,010 3 to 4X of the original volume you saw. 679 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:24,130 Otherwise you're not going to because you need to provide 680 00:35:24,140 --> 00:35:27,660 excess of everybody. Initially were on bringing new 681 00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:30,700 people and give them the potential to get more upside. 682 00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:33,010 That's the same thing for crypto as a whole as well. 683 00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:34,540 That's why I I mean I can be wrong. 684 00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,450 This one I'm wrong at times. I could be wrong but I think 685 00:35:37,460 --> 00:35:40,860 it's a pretty fair statement I'm making while being long like 686 00:35:40,990 --> 00:35:43,750 there's no bag bias. My bag is saying like yo we're 687 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,920 going to hit 50,000 on Solana. I would pretty big Solana bag 688 00:35:46,930 --> 00:35:50,120 but I'm being very sharp like listen we hit 304050. 689 00:35:50,510 --> 00:35:52,090 I'm going to be exciting like whatever. 690 00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:54,120 Like I can get. You can get free X and buying 691 00:35:54,130 --> 00:35:56,120 tech stocks right now. Like why would I go buy? 692 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,630 Solano so So what I would say is that I actually think that the 693 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,230 the, the digital gold narrative is, is like a tried and tested 694 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:04,240 narrative. Obviously. 695 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,880 I also think the idea of like you need the casino and like if 696 00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:12,450 you consider everything like the casino where you can then build 697 00:36:12,460 --> 00:36:15,290 things on top of it, whether it's financials, whether it's 698 00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:17,900 NFTS, whether it's DFI. I think that's a narrative as 699 00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:21,920 well that can always play out. But as with says, that has 700 00:36:21,930 --> 00:36:24,040 cycles. That narrative has cycles. 701 00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:26,980 And for those cycles to really peak and be sustained for a long 702 00:36:26,990 --> 00:36:30,120 time, like if you really want it to be sustained and not just a 703 00:36:30,130 --> 00:36:34,100 pump, you need that follow through of people actually doing 704 00:36:34,110 --> 00:36:36,710 things on the chain, right? You you need that. 705 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:41,410 Like like it's not just me speculating on Solana, it's like 706 00:36:41,420 --> 00:36:45,490 some massive game being played that's gonna take us from 50 to 707 00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:47,490 100, right? Like there's a huge game burning 708 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:49,430 slower. Like there's a friend tech thing 709 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,870 burning. Like you need those applications 710 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,980 where where like that extra layer of speculation for it to 711 00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:58,130 work. And what I was saying is that 712 00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:04,670 right now I think that the ones that were sustaining that last 713 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,470 rally have slightly burnt out in terms of their fire. 714 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:13,310 They can come back, but that they are if like VC funding was 715 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,010 starting to pick up again. And so the only real one I 716 00:37:17,020 --> 00:37:19,100 think, which I think can be huge, probably even bigger than 717 00:37:19,110 --> 00:37:24,480 all the other ones is this like we move trad fi onto crypto and 718 00:37:24,490 --> 00:37:27,060 you have huge lending across lots of different assets and 719 00:37:27,070 --> 00:37:29,220 people do that. That's a really big thing 720 00:37:29,230 --> 00:37:32,080 because it's just like, yeah, and it's just a huge casino and 721 00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:34,820 of every single asset essentially. 722 00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:37,300 But I just think that's going to take time. 723 00:37:37,540 --> 00:37:41,690 I think that's going to take probably three to five years. 724 00:37:41,740 --> 00:37:44,920 But like you start to see the real foothills of it over the 725 00:37:44,930 --> 00:37:48,370 next in like 18 to 24 months and that I think can take E to like 726 00:37:48,380 --> 00:37:51,010 really high levels. I just don't think that's 727 00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:54,730 necessarily there right now. And I might be wrong like I'm 728 00:37:54,740 --> 00:37:58,690 only one cycle starting in 2021. People have replied to me my 729 00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:01,270 thing and said like actually what actually tends to happen is 730 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,650 the price causes the site, like causes the applications. 731 00:38:05,660 --> 00:38:08,350 It causes like people get interested and that causes the 732 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,250 applications to be built. That could happen. 733 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,830 Like what we could happen is price doubles. 734 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,600 And what happens is a tonne of people come into the space and 735 00:38:15,610 --> 00:38:18,950 you see this like, again, this explosion of applications and 736 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,090 things happening and VCs kind of pile in. 737 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,430 But I don't know. I don't know if I feel super 738 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,850 strong with that. I feel as though right now this 739 00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:32,990 if we get this ETF narrative and the halving narrative that feels 740 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,290 like more of a pump to me that a blow off Top Valley and that's 741 00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:39,480 what I was saying. It's like I feel like that's 742 00:38:39,490 --> 00:38:45,900 like an up 50%, up 75% maybe in like in a good scenario which 743 00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:50,140 you sell rather than right. We've got all this stuff about 744 00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:53,400 to happen on ETH and that drives you the next like 3 or 4X. 745 00:38:53,410 --> 00:38:56,440 So that's that's my view. Listen, I just don't have 746 00:38:56,450 --> 00:38:59,580 another like. OK, next year, I'll give you 747 00:38:59,590 --> 00:39:02,890 another year if you want, but at some point we've gotta, we've 748 00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:06,900 gotta ramp it up over here. OK, but I just wanna go to Big 749 00:39:06,910 --> 00:39:08,940 God Bigot. Any thoughts on on this 750 00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:12,780 conversation here? Ohh man, a lot of thoughts I 751 00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:16,300 think. I think Mando and and Wiz are 752 00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:19,250 are are, I don't know. I agree with a lot of the 753 00:39:19,260 --> 00:39:22,470 different stuff. I think to the Ethereum side of 754 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:23,920 things. I think that it's incredibly 755 00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:30,000 difficult to honestly find any any sort of L1 outside of of 756 00:39:30,010 --> 00:39:34,240 Bitcoin and Etherium that I think you should probably maybe 757 00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:37,240 Solana, but other than that I think it's incredibly difficult 758 00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:40,360 in my opinion so to make a case for. 759 00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:44,310 Investing in in sort of those ecosystems other than you know 760 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,290 your your your speculation stuff. 761 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,690 I just think that it's incredibly difficult to get 762 00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:53,630 outside of of EVM and I think that that for some reason 763 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,490 venture firms can have continued to pump you know cash into all 764 00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:00,970 these other layer ones. And I just think that like the 765 00:40:00,980 --> 00:40:04,290 liquidity problem is going to continue to come up again and 766 00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:08,800 again regardless of how much better the tech is right to to 767 00:40:08,860 --> 00:40:11,370 sort of like suey and and and a bunch of these other. 768 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,320 Ecosystems like I think that we've continued to see these 769 00:40:14,330 --> 00:40:17,880 narratives of of the tech is better with XL1 but that 770 00:40:17,890 --> 00:40:21,320 ultimately doesn't matter. I think that like the the tech 771 00:40:21,330 --> 00:40:24,720 is being better is is is is one of the biggest scams I think 772 00:40:24,730 --> 00:40:27,980 that we've seen in in crypto since its inception. 773 00:40:28,170 --> 00:40:31,980 I would agree with with Wiz that I think is as soon as you sort 774 00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:36,510 of look at at crypto in general probably as as having great 775 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,990 product market fit in the speculation market that you 776 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,950 start to look at things I think entirely differently. 777 00:40:44,210 --> 00:40:47,570 I I think that it's a really interesting thing to that point 778 00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:52,480 though that it has achieved product market fit in that 779 00:40:52,490 --> 00:40:55,080 specific category because you're talking about billions and 780 00:40:55,090 --> 00:40:59,040 billions of dollars every year of of of speculation and like 781 00:40:59,050 --> 00:41:02,200 that's a that's not a sort of small feat. 782 00:41:03,710 --> 00:41:05,730 And so I think that there is something to be said about that. 783 00:41:05,740 --> 00:41:10,320 Now I I think going into this next sort of narrative I think 784 00:41:10,330 --> 00:41:14,230 that it has to do or relies heavily on on sort of ETF 785 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:16,250 approvals. I don't know when that that 786 00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:18,570 ultimately comes. I know they continue to to be 787 00:41:18,580 --> 00:41:21,930 sort of pushed back but that's where my head's at. 788 00:41:21,940 --> 00:41:26,050 I think that that this this sort of next cycle is heavily focused 789 00:41:26,060 --> 00:41:29,910 around Bitcoin and Etherium or sort of anything EBM. 790 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,280 And the rest I think continue to struggle even though I'm sure 791 00:41:33,290 --> 00:41:36,460 they'll see some new layer one or some of these other layer 792 00:41:36,470 --> 00:41:39,860 ones that were sort of darlings in the last cycle. 793 00:41:39,930 --> 00:41:42,180 I think it's still going to be incredibly difficult to get any 794 00:41:42,190 --> 00:41:46,940 liquidity outside of of Bitcoin, ETH and and EVM sort of layers. 795 00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:51,770 Fair take, Mandarin. Moderately. 796 00:41:51,810 --> 00:41:53,510 I broadly agree with all of that if I'm honest. 797 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,890 Like I would say that, yeah, big money for the only two that I 798 00:41:57,940 --> 00:42:01,750 like I think are gonna be long term viable. 799 00:42:01,940 --> 00:42:04,870 I think Solana's got this like attractiveness from the risk 800 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,440 reward standpoint right now. Not I I'm not saying you should 801 00:42:09,450 --> 00:42:10,980 go invest in other. I'm. 802 00:42:10,990 --> 00:42:13,390 I completely agree with what you just said, that the tech is not 803 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,210 the issue. Like we don't need faster tech, 804 00:42:15,220 --> 00:42:18,580 we need we need people using it. Like, it's One of the main 805 00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:20,880 issues about crypto is that everyone's so focused on 806 00:42:20,890 --> 00:42:24,390 infrastructure and no one is focused on patients. 807 00:42:24,610 --> 00:42:27,000 But The thing is those application there are come in 808 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,060 and look, I'm new too. I'm like you. 809 00:42:30,110 --> 00:42:33,200 Age with now. Same time so. 810 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,350 Really loud. Like one of the most viral pages 811 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,010 right now. Like posting their friend tech 812 00:42:38,020 --> 00:42:41,670 and saying like, yo, like if you get like if you have the biggest 813 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,970 key, will you take a giveaways and this and that. 814 00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:46,670 Like those mean pages and like crypto being more and more 815 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,240 acceptable? Or like Netflix shows that I'm 816 00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:50,330 watching. Just like mentioning NFT's more 817 00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:52,890 and more and actually not just in bad light anymore. 818 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,790 Or just like for example, next week I'll be with Kraken or 819 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,970 partners in the pit for the Williams car. 820 00:42:59,980 --> 00:43:02,510 Just NFT's on the fucking rear wing and they're giving 821 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,010 collectables to everyone. Just be collectible. 822 00:43:05,090 --> 00:43:06,880 Stuff like happening with them yada yada yada. 823 00:43:06,890 --> 00:43:12,640 I'm just like there is like. There is a lot of still things 824 00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:15,320 happening. It's just we've dried out of 825 00:43:15,330 --> 00:43:18,000 funding of course like a lot of VC's actually broke for what 826 00:43:18,010 --> 00:43:19,860 it's worth like a lot of people don't even know that. 827 00:43:19,870 --> 00:43:22,700 But like a lot of this is over invested by law unless cycle and 828 00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:24,490 don't have money left. Like by the way all the visa 829 00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:27,630 have money on Asia right? Even the EU doesn't even have 830 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,600 that much money like it's in Saudi like and I'm just like 831 00:43:30,610 --> 00:43:32,700 that's just from conversation having almost every single day 832 00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:36,410 with like big people in space and on the West Coast. 833 00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:38,260 They they've ran out of money and they've given money to 834 00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:40,680 projects that went to zero, like almost all of them. 835 00:43:40,750 --> 00:43:44,620 Especially that's right and and and and then when you look at 836 00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:47,030 everything it's like it's just gonna take so much more time. 837 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,520 I just feel like it's a question of just like waiting and then as 838 00:43:49,530 --> 00:43:52,330 soon as the price all driving price stop driving back up 839 00:43:52,380 --> 00:43:56,030 Bitcoin having narrative ETF narratives and stuff the masters 840 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,490 come because the massive you know they also and that's where 841 00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:00,480 Wiz is right. Like they want speculation and 842 00:44:00,490 --> 00:44:03,180 gambling which like gamble fires like so big right now and 843 00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:05,750 everything and all this bull bits and what are killing it. 844 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,420 But you know I think I think we're gonna have to wait. 845 00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:11,220 That's from my perspective someone who again, just like 846 00:44:11,230 --> 00:44:13,930 you. Only lived one cycle, right? 847 00:44:13,980 --> 00:44:17,930 Or sorry, I've only participated in one cycle, but I feel like 848 00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:20,170 we've fast tracked because we've participated every single day 849 00:44:20,180 --> 00:44:22,630 because it seems like you want to reply right away to something 850 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,380 Mandy was saying. No, I I think, I think generally 851 00:44:25,390 --> 00:44:28,060 agree with with Mando. I think one other other thing I 852 00:44:28,070 --> 00:44:32,390 was I was just going to state was I think potential sort of 853 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,100 dark horse narrative that I think you know it might be a bit 854 00:44:36,110 --> 00:44:38,980 biassed of course because I sort of work in this in this in this 855 00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:41,730 sort of niche. But I do think that that a lot 856 00:44:41,740 --> 00:44:46,470 of the stuff you see on East will be will be sort of ported 857 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,330 over to Bitcoin as well right. And and sort of this this 858 00:44:50,420 --> 00:44:53,710 ordinals as well as just I think just building on the top Bitcoin 859 00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,600 in general. And so I think that that during 860 00:44:56,610 --> 00:45:00,390 this next cycle you're going to see a lot of the the same 861 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:05,320 applications built on on built on Bitcoin utilising sort of 862 00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:09,940 PPTS, DLCS and I think that like that's being a bit overlooked. 863 00:45:09,950 --> 00:45:12,360 I think right now I think you know I'm about to head to to 864 00:45:12,370 --> 00:45:16,670 Bitcoin Amsterdam and two of the the sort of headlining or main 865 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,810 one of the main sponsors out of like 10 or so are ordinals based 866 00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:23,130 companies. And I think that like maybe 867 00:45:23,140 --> 00:45:26,150 that's that's not that that strong or crazy the signal. 868 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,180 But I honestly expect that over the next one to two years you'll 869 00:45:30,190 --> 00:45:34,140 start to see more of the main sponsors for for these you know 870 00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:39,000 Bitcoin focused conferences have more and more ordinals or or or 871 00:45:39,010 --> 00:45:41,480 just sort of like Bitcoin base layer companies or even layer 872 00:45:41,490 --> 00:45:42,640 two. So I'm starting to see a lot of 873 00:45:42,650 --> 00:45:46,980 ZK rollups being pushed as potential sort of scaling to 874 00:45:46,990 --> 00:45:49,100 Bitcoin. So I think that that you know 875 00:45:49,110 --> 00:45:52,600 this plays again into not only this ETF narrative but again 876 00:45:52,610 --> 00:45:55,710 like where ultimately money is flowing. 877 00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:59,560 And I think like not only I think will Bitcoin have this 878 00:45:59,670 --> 00:46:03,890 store of value narrative, still I think it will also become a 879 00:46:03,940 --> 00:46:08,370 sort of flourishing ecosystem, one that's that's sort of rivals 880 00:46:08,380 --> 00:46:10,240 probably Earth, if not if not larger. 881 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,810 And that's just my thesis. First, I mean, we saw, yeah, we 882 00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:17,830 saw as well as ERC 20, BRC 20 originals and FT blah blah. 883 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,970 Like a lot of people start building fast on Bitcoin. 884 00:46:20,220 --> 00:46:21,610 We'll see what happens on that front. 885 00:46:21,620 --> 00:46:23,930 Wizard, you wanna give us the last take here? 886 00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:27,590 Yeah, you know what Since we were talking about applications 887 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,020 and potential future applications, what I think is 888 00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:35,050 going to be the next big wave and that could like that will 889 00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:41,570 push a crypto especially potential L1L twos and eat the 890 00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:43,070 only thing I'm hearing in like the. 891 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,920 The private equity VC world, when money is in flowing and 892 00:46:46,930 --> 00:46:49,420 crypto is also being mentioned, is actually like the carbon 893 00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:51,690 side. Like a lot of, there's a big 894 00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:56,770 issue with the. Carbon being able to like carbon 895 00:46:56,780 --> 00:47:00,670 reserves per se, the market making and exchanges and all 896 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:05,520 that is pretty broken and like the real world and everyone's 897 00:47:05,530 --> 00:47:08,490 talking about converting those like tokenizing those carbon 898 00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:12,530 credits and having the reserves on chains in a one to one 899 00:47:12,540 --> 00:47:15,370 redeem. So just think like like a circle 900 00:47:15,380 --> 00:47:18,950 having one to one redeem on like U.S. dollar, right? 901 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,550 Like like stable coins are like one of the biggest things that 902 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,800 are traded worldwide and use cases. 903 00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:29,080 Of crypto for example I like Brazil and stuff like they they 904 00:47:29,090 --> 00:47:33,190 use like die and USDT and all that like crazy right. 905 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,450 Especially from because of inflation because of how like 906 00:47:36,460 --> 00:47:38,610 broken the the economy and country is. 907 00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:42,110 Everybody wants to have this. So the the only thing I've been 908 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,350 hearing like a lot from companies that are raising like 909 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,090 crazy money, they're raising for carbon, but a lot of the debts 910 00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:53,140 have I've seen is that they're talking about having a part of 911 00:47:53,150 --> 00:47:55,690 the reserves tokenized and on the blockchain. 912 00:47:55,770 --> 00:48:01,100 So that it can be traded easily and it can cross country like 913 00:48:01,110 --> 00:48:03,980 cross-border trading which is like a big issue too. 914 00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:06,980 And validation which was like the issue with like I don't know 915 00:48:06,990 --> 00:48:08,440 if you guys remember like Klima Dao. 916 00:48:08,670 --> 00:48:11,520 One of the reasons it failed was because, I mean it was like a 917 00:48:11,530 --> 00:48:14,960 huge thing but one of the reasons failed was because of 918 00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:18,020 the carbon credits were like not validated properly and they were 919 00:48:18,030 --> 00:48:19,500 ship credits. There's different types of 920 00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:23,610 carbon credits like it's not. No2 carbon credits are equal. 921 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,210 So that's something I've been seeing index a lot lately is 922 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,880 tokenizing of carbon credits and carbon credits is supposed to 923 00:48:29,890 --> 00:48:33,090 have like at least like there's already like set aside like over 924 00:48:33,100 --> 00:48:35,110 like between 1 1/2 to 2 trillion. 925 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,710 There's huge M&A going on behind the scenes like there are a 926 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,450 couple of big like billion dollar buyouts of carbon 927 00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:43,510 services company because you like ramp up. 928 00:48:43,740 --> 00:48:48,830 So I think that could see a pretty humongous like like multi 929 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,330 multi billion dollar volume coming into like. 930 00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:56,970 Inflows for people wanna come in and, you know, trade carbon 931 00:48:56,980 --> 00:49:00,570 credits, especially if there's a 1 to 1 redeemed, then that means 932 00:49:00,580 --> 00:49:04,950 there's no arbitrage scenario between a like a real exchange 933 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,670 trading carbon credits and on the blockchain. 934 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,530 Kind of like how USDT and USC could be redeemed instantly 1 to 935 00:49:12,540 --> 00:49:16,490 one for dollar like cash. So yeah, I think that could in 936 00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:20,750 the next year or so see a massive, massive inflow. 937 00:49:20,820 --> 00:49:22,880 Obviously there'll be a lot of trash too that'll come in. 938 00:49:22,950 --> 00:49:25,130 But I think that will be the next big wave. 939 00:49:25,140 --> 00:49:28,770 Personally, I think that will be crazy. 940 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,750 That I think I would class that as the RWA side like these 941 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,010 actual asset like yeah, crypto itself is a $1 trillion asset. 942 00:49:36,020 --> 00:49:39,530 There are about 400 trillion of assets include literally 943 00:49:39,540 --> 00:49:41,640 everything. If you can just start tokenizing 944 00:49:41,650 --> 00:49:45,350 some of those assets and putting them on a chain like we dwarf, 945 00:49:45,460 --> 00:49:48,330 right. It's not like NFTS where I think 946 00:49:48,340 --> 00:49:51,020 the market capacities someone like 5 to 10 billion right now 947 00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:53,540 the major, major collections we're talking about. 948 00:49:53,620 --> 00:49:57,640 Fact is bigger, but for that to happen, I think you need very, 949 00:49:57,650 --> 00:50:01,000 very clear regulations like even tokenizing of carbon credits. 950 00:50:01,250 --> 00:50:03,640 They need to build the regulations around like actually 951 00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:05,680 securities like what would that be? 952 00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:08,110 And that's why I think it's a little bit of a longer lead 953 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,500 time, but I do. That's why I'm super bullish. 954 00:50:10,510 --> 00:50:13,400 Carbon credits to commodity, by the way, it doesn't follow. 955 00:50:13,410 --> 00:50:14,900 Yeah, OK. Yeah. 956 00:50:14,910 --> 00:50:15,670 Yeah. That's why. 957 00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:18,850 That's why I'm more bullish on the tokenizing of carbon credits 958 00:50:18,860 --> 00:50:20,700 is because, yeah, it sits as a commodity. 959 00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:23,540 So it's actually very easy to tokenize, I mean. 960 00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:26,530 There's a lot of money in flowing and there's a lot of 961 00:50:26,540 --> 00:50:28,170 capital even. What am I buying? 962 00:50:28,380 --> 00:50:29,770 Why are they not other? Why? 963 00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:33,350 Policies to the CFTC still need to look at other commodities, 964 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:34,750 like why? Why have we not seen like oil 965 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:35,560 and stuff like? That, Yeah. 966 00:50:35,570 --> 00:50:39,050 Well, you're seeing gold, there's there's a gold 1 to one 967 00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:41,410 that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's gold 1 968 00:50:41,420 --> 00:50:45,190 to one things you can buy that gives you like a direct exposure 969 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,350 to gold. It's just, it's just A has not 970 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,310 been marketed and B, there's just not a big demand like you 971 00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:56,480 can go buy gold very easily. Umm, you know, uh, cross-border 972 00:50:56,490 --> 00:50:58,740 on like any exchange, right? Like it's so easy. 973 00:50:58,750 --> 00:51:01,540 You can go to like a fucking pawn shop and just give money in 974 00:51:01,550 --> 00:51:03,580 anywhere and buy gold. Like it's so easy. 975 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,800 It's the stuff that's tougher cross-border and that's why I 976 00:51:06,810 --> 00:51:09,440 specifically said carbon credits, because it's very tough 977 00:51:09,450 --> 00:51:13,800 for to do cross-border trading of carbon credits and it'll be a 978 00:51:13,810 --> 00:51:16,610 long time even if they get like regulations individually in 979 00:51:16,620 --> 00:51:19,660 countries, it'll be way easier for people to do it on the 980 00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:22,960 blockchain then be able to do it on exchanges. 981 00:51:22,970 --> 00:51:26,270 So I think that will be big but. Other commodities like you, it's 982 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:27,230 so easy. That's the problem. 983 00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,690 That's why you're not seeing much tokenization of other 984 00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:30,820 stuff. Like there is a goal, but like 985 00:51:30,830 --> 00:51:34,330 you haven't seen that much volume because of that has like. 986 00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:36,700 That would be huge, I think. Obviously then you also need 987 00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:38,740 like the trad 5 firms, you can actually trade on this sort of 988 00:51:38,750 --> 00:51:41,590 stuff that you need. You need that lead time I think 989 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,430 of. Infrastructure you need you need 990 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,850 the the the most important thing is you need that one to one 991 00:51:46,860 --> 00:51:51,070 redeem that stimulus right Like that's why the biggest volumes 992 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,970 on all exchanges are USDT and USDC and guy right like. 993 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,270 Like that's what people trade the most like or like youth case 994 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,590 the most is that they they they use the the, the one to one to 995 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,400 dollar and the reason is it's a no arbitrage scenario. 996 00:52:04,410 --> 00:52:06,660 So when like you know for example when like over that one 997 00:52:06,670 --> 00:52:10,940 weekend we had where USC dumped down to like 85 cents or 998 00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:13,880 whatever like everybody was just buying it was like free money 999 00:52:13,890 --> 00:52:15,440 right. So because they know they can go 1000 00:52:15,450 --> 00:52:19,180 redeem for one to one like online whenever they open it up 1001 00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:21,610 or whatever it may be. So as long as you have that one 1002 00:52:21,620 --> 00:52:24,560 to one redeem and like people like track 5, firms will come in 1003 00:52:24,670 --> 00:52:26,160 if they're like, oh, I could go buy. 1004 00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:30,450 Dollars for like $0.95 and just sell it instantly and get like a 1005 00:52:30,460 --> 00:52:33,270 a full dollar with like no slippage or like minimal 1006 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,140 slippage. Like, yeah, well people do that 1007 00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:36,790 all day, especially if there's volume. 1008 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,080 So that's why I think like the carbon thing will be huge, 1009 00:52:39,090 --> 00:52:42,620 especially if there's a one to one reading and because of the 1010 00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:45,710 commodity and because you can't like every little part hits so 1011 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,130 and the inflows were coming in, I mean the inflows in private 1012 00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:51,930 equity and carbon is like insane and most of them have have been 1013 00:52:51,940 --> 00:52:55,050 talking about some form of tokenizing a part of it. 1014 00:52:55,060 --> 00:52:57,020 So that's pretty massive. In this case. 1015 00:52:58,890 --> 00:53:03,000 A lot of gems being shared today on the on the show this morning 1016 00:53:03,070 --> 00:53:05,780 I really invite people to get back and and look on this. 1017 00:53:05,790 --> 00:53:08,740 Listen I wanted to share a definition of RWA's on the 1018 00:53:08,750 --> 00:53:11,930 Screener leader but when I googled RWA here in London I got 1019 00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:15,120 the Royal Welsh Agricultural Society and I'm assuming you're 1020 00:53:15,130 --> 00:53:19,340 not telling people to buy into that here this morning Mando and 1021 00:53:19,410 --> 00:53:23,580 and it was but we could we should get into into more depth 1022 00:53:23,590 --> 00:53:25,880 into all the stuff that's being expanded on today. 1023 00:53:25,890 --> 00:53:28,450 Maybe make some separate topics about this and and go deeper 1024 00:53:28,460 --> 00:53:29,670 into this. What is it? 1025 00:53:29,980 --> 00:53:32,230 I know that I think like big God, where's Mandela? 1026 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:35,550 You all have like made very similar points today and in the 1027 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,370 overall like grasping point is similar. 1028 00:53:38,380 --> 00:53:40,570 It's like you know it's gonna, it's gonna take a little bit 1029 00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:43,900 more but we're we're definitely going to get there is just you 1030 00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:48,610 know maybe be cautious cautiously bullish when it comes 1031 00:53:48,620 --> 00:53:51,850 to price action and whatnot especially in the in these times 1032 00:53:51,860 --> 00:53:55,140 and I'm assuming, you know it's not the easier times around the 1033 00:53:55,150 --> 00:53:57,770 world especially at the moment. So thanks for the debate. 1034 00:53:57,780 --> 00:53:59,570 That was a really, really good debate. 1035 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,160 Very healthy one shot. Big God, where's? 1036 00:54:02,170 --> 00:54:05,060 And of course Mando started this off with with your tweet this 1037 00:54:05,070 --> 00:54:06,940 morning. Listen, I'm not going to go into 1038 00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:09,480 the NFT topics today because we are already on the hour and I 1039 00:54:09,490 --> 00:54:12,260 have to go to met AMS real quick because I heard that you're 1040 00:54:12,270 --> 00:54:15,260 going to be in Amsterdam but for Bitcoin Amsterdam this weekend. 1041 00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:17,910 So let us know how that went. Actually really curious on that. 1042 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,340 Maybe come back in a couple of days when or after the event 1043 00:54:20,350 --> 00:54:22,800 when it's done next week and and give us the TLDR of that. 1044 00:54:22,810 --> 00:54:25,480 Definitely, definitely feel free to come back more often. 1045 00:54:25,490 --> 00:54:28,510 Love that PFP. What? 1046 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,170 Was the cracking thing you said before. 1047 00:54:30,180 --> 00:54:32,320 Although cracking, pitting I don't really understand. 1048 00:54:32,330 --> 00:54:35,730 That ohh you'll see next week Thread guy and I are are are 1049 00:54:35,740 --> 00:54:38,430 gonna be in Austin for the F1. Let me know if you're there 1050 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:39,710 with. Yeah, yeah, I am. 1051 00:54:39,780 --> 00:54:41,170 Yeah, Ohh. Doing Rolex. 1052 00:54:41,210 --> 00:54:43,080 Rolex invited me. So I'm going to there. 1053 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,390 Well, your boy, yeah boy and I, yeah, TJ are gonna be in the pit 1054 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,250 with with and we're gonna be. Yeah, I'll be in the pit too, 1055 00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:53,130 with the Alpine. Scene goes we'll be with the 1056 00:54:53,140 --> 00:54:57,750 Williams team and we'll be we'll be interviewing the the drivers 1057 00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,660 will be. Interviewing I'm pretty sure 1058 00:54:59,670 --> 00:55:01,860 we're gonna try and get in here to see cracking as well. 1059 00:55:01,980 --> 00:55:04,740 And they're cooking some stuff that I. 1060 00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:08,140 Can't talk about just yet. But they're coming on the show 1061 00:55:08,290 --> 00:55:10,990 next week and given that they're partner of of rock Radio and of 1062 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,970 our show this morning, that we're gonna be doing some stuff 1063 00:55:12,980 --> 00:55:14,780 with them. So definitely sad to see you 1064 00:55:14,790 --> 00:55:16,720 then, because we're going to create content, Ji says. 1065 00:55:16,730 --> 00:55:18,180 Me. Funny dynamic going on. 1066 00:55:18,310 --> 00:55:20,840 Yeah, that's gonna be awesome. On the side, yeah, as we fire, 1067 00:55:20,850 --> 00:55:23,340 see the little things like this though that makes me excited 1068 00:55:23,350 --> 00:55:26,320 about all this because I'm I realised like we're really like, 1069 00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:28,870 I know it seems like things are gonna be slow. 1070 00:55:28,940 --> 00:55:31,760 And everything. And we're still not over it. 1071 00:55:31,830 --> 00:55:36,680 But you know, as a founder in space, very active founder, 1072 00:55:36,750 --> 00:55:39,910 Berkeley speaking, you know, yeah, Rolex invited me with a 1073 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,730 flex. Everyone was like, yeah. 1074 00:55:43,390 --> 00:55:45,180 Yeah man, they only invite 10 people. 1075 00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:48,200 So. Let's go let's go. 1076 00:55:48,210 --> 00:55:50,600 Another friend of mine say yeah Lamborghini sent me two tickets 1077 00:55:50,610 --> 00:55:53,360 and like OK, like I already feel super poor especially in this 1078 00:55:53,370 --> 00:55:59,000 market you know like I but it's it's you know I I I love having 1079 00:55:59,070 --> 00:56:02,160 all you guys around me. But anyways, the NFT stuff 1080 00:56:02,170 --> 00:56:04,960 between the gutter cat gang acquisition we'll talk about 1081 00:56:04,970 --> 00:56:06,790 maybe tomorrow and from maybe we get. 1082 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,960 You know what, let's just try and get the new founder on, the 1083 00:56:08,970 --> 00:56:10,880 new owner on and and talk with him directly. 1084 00:56:10,890 --> 00:56:16,240 And the suspicious $1.6 million NFT purchase causing concerns of 1085 00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:17,830 money laundering because we saw some money. 1086 00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:20,500 Coming out of tornado cash from that thousandth today, by the 1087 00:56:20,510 --> 00:56:21,660 way. Next time you wanna fat Finger 1088 00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:24,600 or money Launder or toad, just there's a toad in my wallet. 1089 00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:27,280 Like just like send me 1000 death. 1090 00:56:28,210 --> 00:56:30,760 Send me 1000 death Bed. I promise you I'll take it. 1091 00:56:30,850 --> 00:56:33,420 OK. Willing to send you back like 1092 00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:36,660 25% also. Wait, hold on. 1093 00:56:36,670 --> 00:56:39,440 Did I just wait. What am I say on? 1094 00:56:39,850 --> 00:56:43,420 In case of an investigation by any federal entity or similar, I 1095 00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:46,000 do not have any involvement with this group or with the people in 1096 00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:47,880 it. I do not know how I'm here. 1097 00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:51,270 Probably added by a third party. I do not support any members by 1098 00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,280 any actions of this. Group there you go. 1099 00:56:53,290 --> 00:56:56,750 And then the Rafiq anecdotes that started you know revealing 1100 00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,420 and also boarded PL club of course again to A to a flooring 1101 00:57:00,430 --> 00:57:03,710 labs that sold for 400K that for for for gold day. 1102 00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:07,140 But hey those $400,000 for Golden Monkey JPEG. 1103 00:57:07,150 --> 00:57:10,090 So we'll take it but anyways pin at the top is a giveaway. 1104 00:57:10,170 --> 00:57:14,430 We're giving away tickets to Met Amsterdam and we have the Met 1105 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,030 AMS team on stage right now. Sorry for the delay. 1106 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:18,870 I know you guys were meant to talk about 20 minutes ago. 1107 00:57:18,940 --> 00:57:21,960 But you know, when you got a good debate and good content, 1108 00:57:22,020 --> 00:57:24,820 you gotta keep it rolling like we just did this morning, thanks 1109 00:57:24,830 --> 00:57:28,080 to Mando, Winston Biggart, but met MGM. 1110 00:57:28,090 --> 00:57:32,900 How you doing today? GMG MGM Yeah. 1111 00:57:32,910 --> 00:57:36,220 Can you guys hear me alright? Ohh, we can hear you alright so 1112 00:57:36,230 --> 00:57:38,680 tell us more. Seems like Amsterdam's like 1113 00:57:38,770 --> 00:57:41,300 Amsterdam's the spot. Like you got a Bitcoin 1114 00:57:41,310 --> 00:57:42,620 conference this. Weekend, I know. 1115 00:57:42,670 --> 00:57:45,920 You got break point which is Solana like a massive you know 1116 00:57:45,970 --> 00:57:49,480 Solana comfort like huge conference over there and then 1117 00:57:49,490 --> 00:57:53,940 at the same time actually right it's it's same days we have men 1118 00:57:53,950 --> 00:57:57,180 have same guys like you guys in N1 to 3rd I think they're a day 1119 00:57:57,190 --> 00:58:01,560 before you but we got met AMS and you know we got our own. 1120 00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,710 Whole lot of people going out there from at Amsterdam, so tell 1121 00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,030 us about what's happening over there? 1122 00:58:07,540 --> 00:58:10,050 Yeah, it's mad, right? Like, it seems like Amsterdam, 1123 00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,930 out of nowhere, just became this kind of Web 3 hub. 1124 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,790 I think it's just because there's a lot of weed. 1125 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,590 Probably. I I would say there's something. 1126 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,710 So it has something to do with that that some people are not 1127 00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,810 being honest about, but we like to think we can offer a bit more 1128 00:58:23,820 --> 00:58:26,840 than just that and that happens. But yeah, now we've got, we've 1129 00:58:26,850 --> 00:58:30,570 got a wicked line up this year lots of people in town as you 1130 00:58:30,580 --> 00:58:32,750 said for break Point. I think what's been really 1131 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,170 interesting to see is that there's been quite, I don't know 1132 00:58:35,180 --> 00:58:38,470 like Web 3 Maxi conferences popping off and I think we're a 1133 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,130 little bit different in that we tackle things from all the 1134 00:58:41,140 --> 00:58:44,590 creative angle and we kind of bring other technologies in as 1135 00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:46,410 well, right. So our our kind of. 1136 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,230 Focused with Madams is bringing emerging tech and creativity 1137 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,610 together and really giving like the creators, the brands, the 1138 00:58:52,620 --> 00:58:54,730 people who really like experimenting and create with 1139 00:58:54,740 --> 00:58:57,390 this technology platform to yeah, showcase it in a really 1140 00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,070 cool way. And then you might have seen 1141 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,430 from the pin tweet where we're like a pretty immersive we've 1142 00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,850 got a pretty immersive setup going on. 1143 00:59:05,860 --> 00:59:09,230 So we like to go pretty all in on on creativity like I said, 1144 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,270 but really show that in a really cool way as well. 1145 00:59:12,180 --> 00:59:14,620 So yeah, really excited for this year's event, really excited 1146 00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:15,750 that you guys are joining as well. 1147 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,670 I think it's a good turn out. From the Rugrats crowd, from Not 1148 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,180 mistaken. Hmm. 1149 00:59:20,490 --> 00:59:22,060 We got a whole lot of people coming up. 1150 00:59:22,070 --> 00:59:24,360 I mean, I'm coming out there. We got thread guy coming out 1151 00:59:24,370 --> 00:59:27,180 there. We got Hannah coming out, Lossy 1152 00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:31,620 coming out there we got listen, we we got a whole list of people 1153 00:59:31,890 --> 00:59:33,800 coming out there for that. There you go. 1154 00:59:33,810 --> 00:59:36,380 There's my little PFP next to my boy TG. 1155 00:59:36,510 --> 00:59:40,060 Ohh, I just found out that Zen Zeneca's name is Rohit. 1156 00:59:41,620 --> 00:59:43,730 Look at you know look at this. Yeah, I know this guy. 1157 00:59:44,020 --> 00:59:48,630 I Ohh's mug shot is so that's that one time he got arrested 1158 00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:51,570 and he was literally like has been using this mugshot has this 1159 00:59:51,580 --> 00:59:53,190 photo which is insane to me. It's. 1160 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,530 Horrible, in fact. Didn't know that. 1161 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,570 Yeah, fun fact. Listen, Yeah. 1162 00:59:58,110 --> 00:59:59,720 Could line up. We've got a good line up and I 1163 00:59:59,730 --> 01:00:02,050 think it's a real like it's a it's a nice mix. 1164 01:00:02,130 --> 01:00:04,610 So you got Jeff Staple and that's that's my dog right 1165 01:00:04,620 --> 01:00:05,750 there. Love Jeff. 1166 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,610 Ohh. I just met Lauren actually at 0. 1167 01:00:07,620 --> 01:00:10,560 Yeah this week I got asked my CEO right there. 1168 01:00:10,570 --> 01:00:13,870 Look at him, so cute and hang out but you got to pull out of 1169 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,190 other people. And I was actually chatting 1170 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,170 about you guys with some friends of mine when I was in Spain 1171 01:00:18,180 --> 01:00:19,910 about a week, a week and a half ago. 1172 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,760 And they were just telling me that like it's a completely 1173 01:00:21,770 --> 01:00:23,690 different conference. Like, it's got nothing with like 1174 01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:26,590 what I'm usually used to. Like, it's not super, like you 1175 01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,230 were saying, like not just NFT, he's not super Type 3 and 1176 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,500 whatnot. It's just like broader tech, 1177 01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:32,960 right? So yeah, what are some things 1178 01:00:32,970 --> 01:00:34,720 that we can expect over there? And like, why? 1179 01:00:34,730 --> 01:00:36,390 Why should someone in your opinion attend? 1180 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,860 Because I'm sure some people listening to us are probably 1181 01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:40,560 gonna break point anyways, right? 1182 01:00:40,570 --> 01:00:43,350 So like, you know, I think, I think would be interesting to 1183 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,970 tell them why they should come over to this conference, you 1184 01:00:45,980 --> 01:00:49,230 know? Yeah for sure. 1185 01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,050 So like I think for us doing this it, it kind of was born out 1186 01:00:52,060 --> 01:00:54,610 of the idea that well at least from our experience going to a 1187 01:00:54,620 --> 01:00:58,130 lot of conferences the the the organisers are kind of lost a 1188 01:00:58,140 --> 01:00:59,610 little bit why they were doing it. 1189 01:00:59,620 --> 01:01:01,510 Like for the people that were meant to be there and I think 1190 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,480 like the the the the way that conferences were or were being 1191 01:01:04,490 --> 01:01:06,910 designed or are being designed is quite static. 1192 01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,050 It just tends to be a stage with the room some mites and maybe a 1193 01:01:10,060 --> 01:01:12,750 couple of screens to show stuff. And I think especially with the 1194 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,330 topic is exciting like this and especially for us really honing 1195 01:01:15,340 --> 01:01:17,640 in or creativity, it was like how can we create an environment 1196 01:01:17,650 --> 01:01:20,970 that really feels? Like or we can really show off 1197 01:01:20,980 --> 01:01:23,040 the best version of what we're talking about as well, right. 1198 01:01:23,050 --> 01:01:26,570 So you know for us this is like a playground of creativity where 1199 01:01:26,580 --> 01:01:29,380 you know everything from our stage design is super in your 1200 01:01:29,390 --> 01:01:31,900 face and creative and imposing the most. 1201 01:01:31,910 --> 01:01:34,740 But even stuff like yeah, the experience since we've got we've 1202 01:01:34,750 --> 01:01:38,340 got you know hologram technology and the best world we've got the 1203 01:01:38,350 --> 01:01:40,840 the, the coolest stuff that's really on the the the kind of 1204 01:01:40,850 --> 01:01:43,860 cusp of breaking through being shown at this event. 1205 01:01:43,870 --> 01:01:46,490 So it really feels that you're you're witnessing it happened 1206 01:01:46,500 --> 01:01:48,860 first hand. So yeah, I think that's. 1207 01:01:49,150 --> 01:01:51,920 That's really what sets us apart and I think also the fact that 1208 01:01:51,930 --> 01:01:55,090 we're bringing in a lot of other voices and a lot of people from 1209 01:01:55,100 --> 01:01:57,710 different emerging tech industries like AI. 1210 01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,970 The VR scene is really well represented in the AR scene as 1211 01:02:00,980 --> 01:02:04,280 well across the gaming scene. And I think for us it becomes 1212 01:02:04,290 --> 01:02:07,670 this real melting pot of, yeah, just a tonne of different 1213 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,070 opinions, a tonne of different perspectives that together 1214 01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:11,670 collectively come up with new ideas. 1215 01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,390 And some of that stuff you see at the event and some stuff, 1216 01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,070 yeah, materialises after the event. 1217 01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,470 And I think that's what really makes us unique and definitely. 1218 01:02:20,140 --> 01:02:23,000 Yeah, like a nice addition to for something like Break Point. 1219 01:02:23,010 --> 01:02:25,180 If you're in town, definitely swing by hell. 1220 01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:27,100 Yeah, no, this is super cool. I can't wait. 1221 01:02:27,110 --> 01:02:29,470 I know a lot of people are gonna be out there for for both of 1222 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,180 them. So which is really cool. 1223 01:02:32,110 --> 01:02:34,120 And what kind of attendance are you expecting? 1224 01:02:34,130 --> 01:02:35,980 I know you did it last year. What are you expecting this 1225 01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:38,860 year? Yeah, last year we had. 1226 01:02:38,870 --> 01:02:41,070 It was our year. One funny story. 1227 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,760 We thought we were gonna invite around 200 people and it ended 1228 01:02:43,770 --> 01:02:46,080 up being 2000. So that was a nice surprise. 1229 01:02:46,370 --> 01:02:47,540 Absolutely. No. 1230 01:02:47,550 --> 01:02:51,200 Yeah, it wasn't bad. It was bad for my health, but 1231 01:02:51,210 --> 01:02:54,000 other than that it wasn't bad. Dude, I don't know how 1232 01:02:54,010 --> 01:02:55,800 conference organisers do it, bro. 1233 01:02:55,810 --> 01:02:58,100 Like we can every time we have to do our own event. 1234 01:02:58,110 --> 01:03:03,050 I'm just like bro, but like. Yeah, you need a good. 1235 01:03:03,060 --> 01:03:05,450 Team of people around you. That's the that's the secret 1236 01:03:05,460 --> 01:03:07,210 source. You gotta get the right people, 1237 01:03:07,260 --> 01:03:08,550 right people doing the right things. 1238 01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,150 But yeah, we're we're not expecting a tunnel this year. 1239 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,150 I think for us like 2, two and a half thousand people, it's like 1240 01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:15,830 a great number. Yeah. 1241 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,780 Size isn't really the thing for us is creepy as that might come. 1242 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,820 But yeah, it's it's it's it's an intimate vibe and I think 1243 01:03:24,830 --> 01:03:26,010 Amsterdam is a great place for him. 1244 01:03:26,780 --> 01:03:29,610 Amsterdam sounds very late. I've actually, ironically, I've 1245 01:03:29,620 --> 01:03:33,140 never been. I cannot wait for that as well. 1246 01:03:33,210 --> 01:03:36,650 And so we are given 10 tickets away a shot to met arms for 1247 01:03:36,660 --> 01:03:38,480 organising this partnership with Rugby of course. 1248 01:03:38,490 --> 01:03:41,310 So if you quote tweet the tweet that I'm sharing on screen right 1249 01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,760 now but it's also pinned at the top of the Twitter space and 1250 01:03:43,770 --> 01:03:47,460 tell the people why you're excited for Met amps and you 1251 01:03:47,470 --> 01:03:52,800 could be one of 10 winners and yeah 10 who tickets that 1252 01:03:52,810 --> 01:03:54,820 actually pretty expensive. So if you want to go there, I 1253 01:03:54,830 --> 01:03:57,140 mean a lot of people, a lot of brands especially if you're 1254 01:03:57,150 --> 01:03:58,880 trying to like build a company in this space. 1255 01:03:58,890 --> 01:04:01,130 I was personally told as a founder is one of the more the 1256 01:04:01,140 --> 01:04:02,660 web two side that's actually tending. 1257 01:04:02,730 --> 01:04:05,930 So it's a good thing and that's kind of what my my takeaway with 1258 01:04:05,940 --> 01:04:09,790 Ovi from Zebu we kind of broke it down yesterday was like more 1259 01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:11,670 than half the people in that room had no idea really who we 1260 01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,630 were and it was a really good thing but it was packed right 1261 01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:20,810 and so and so you know I think I think it's I think it's a it's 1262 01:04:20,820 --> 01:04:25,580 good to be to be present for events like that. 1263 01:04:25,590 --> 01:04:27,880 So, yeah, I mean any any last things you want to share with us 1264 01:04:27,890 --> 01:04:30,760 here on stage? No, not at all. 1265 01:04:30,770 --> 01:04:34,000 I mean, like I said, if anyone's in town anyway for for break 1266 01:04:34,010 --> 01:04:35,740 point like her soft centres at the end. 1267 01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:37,810 I'm sure we can give you a nice price in the tickets if you 1268 01:04:37,820 --> 01:04:39,340 aren't one of the lucky 10 winners. 1269 01:04:40,010 --> 01:04:44,220 But yeah, excited to to have you guys with us and excited to see 1270 01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:45,710 what happens. Alright. 1271 01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,680 Thank you very much for coming. Appreciate you and. 1272 01:04:47,690 --> 01:04:50,450 Seeing Amsterdam. Appreciate it. 1273 01:04:50,460 --> 01:04:53,770 Ciao Ciao. Alright Mando, I know we went a 1274 01:04:53,780 --> 01:04:56,870 little over but that was totally worth it for the conversation. 1275 01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,810 Seriously, you gotta tell your people to listen to the replay 1276 01:04:59,820 --> 01:05:01,780 of this space if you want to learn something or two about 1277 01:05:01,790 --> 01:05:03,610 crypto. Cause I was one of those really 1278 01:05:03,700 --> 01:05:06,150 really valuable ones. I'm sure Sam's was like licking 1279 01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,250 his fingers in the back and saying like content for the 1280 01:05:09,260 --> 01:05:14,580 YouTube able to to upload. But yeah, great one. 1281 01:05:15,030 --> 01:05:20,610 Hopefully tomorrow you get out of hibernation, Mando. 1282 01:05:20,620 --> 01:05:22,970 We'll be working on that and hopefully we'll never need to 1283 01:05:22,980 --> 01:05:26,850 have a have a have a intervention with that. 1284 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:31,920 I know Ovi had a different tweet this morning, so tomorrow 1285 01:05:31,930 --> 01:05:34,470 hopefully I have the both of you so I can have you guys. 1286 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:36,760 It's like a elder wreck. Guys were saying that their 1287 01:05:36,770 --> 01:05:41,840 fathers are are indirectly arguing on the timeline you're 1288 01:05:41,850 --> 01:05:43,000 muted. I think it mutes you 1289 01:05:43,010 --> 01:05:44,860 automatically. But he posted a. 1290 01:05:45,570 --> 01:05:47,360 Did he tweet? I didn't even see that. 1291 01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:51,600 Well, like you don't understand. Like the flip of you like the 1292 01:05:51,610 --> 01:05:54,740 absolute 180 degree version of your tweet. 1293 01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,250 Is it though? Even saying I'm bearish and I'm 1294 01:05:58,260 --> 01:06:00,590 all I'm saying is I'm more bullish on different narratives. 1295 01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,480 But all I'm saying is it starts with you always see people get 1296 01:06:03,490 --> 01:06:05,710 bearish at the lows and bullish at the highs. 1297 01:06:06,140 --> 01:06:08,820 So keep that for tomorrow because I'm going to have both 1298 01:06:08,830 --> 01:06:11,630 of you and we'll talk a little later. 1299 01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,390 Actually, I'm gonna be with over in an hour at the Aspirations. 1300 01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,920 So Miss Appropriate and you both do like what is what I just said 1301 01:06:17,930 --> 01:06:19,420 bearish. I think you don't get. 1302 01:06:19,430 --> 01:06:21,750 They're just fucking with. You No, no it's not. 1303 01:06:21,810 --> 01:06:24,750 You guys keep keep going for me. What I'm saying is bullish but 1304 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,260 different time frame and also that I think Bitcoin can 1305 01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:32,000 massively outperform. I'm gonna keep this so let's 1306 01:06:32,010 --> 01:06:34,950 keep that for tomorrow. And with that, with that, with 1307 01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,390 that, we'll see you tomorrow morning 10:30 AM Eastern 1308 01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,000 Standard Time 7:30 AM Pacific Standard Time for another 1309 01:06:40,010 --> 01:06:43,820 episode of Jim Murphy powered by cracking lefty on rock radio. 1310 01:06:43,930 --> 01:06:45,960 Let's go.