1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:03,570 Yo-yo, yo-yo, yo, what up? What up? 2 00:00:03,580 --> 00:00:06,620 Good morning. Good morning, G MG. 3 00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:15,590 He Wednesday, September 27th. I got it right 2023. 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,770 Look at that. Another beautiful day to have a 5 00:00:19,780 --> 00:00:23,990 beautiful day. I got my Co hosts in the house. 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,710 Ohh Seth AKA Mr No Wi-Fi. What's up man? 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,990 How you doing today? No Wi-Fi No. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,910 I see no. Yeah, back in London tomorrow. 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,320 So hell yeah. I hear we're going. 10 00:00:38,370 --> 00:00:39,440 I hear we're golfing. Next week? 11 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:40,580 Next week? Yeah. 12 00:00:40,710 --> 00:00:45,800 Let's go, let's go, let's go. My other co-host, Mando. 13 00:00:45,870 --> 00:00:47,320 Mando, how you doing this morning? 14 00:00:48,390 --> 00:00:50,720 Doing good, man. Doing good in the tropical 15 00:00:50,730 --> 00:00:53,280 island of Videira today. So. 16 00:00:53,350 --> 00:00:55,560 Bit of a holiday. It's a beautiful day. 17 00:00:55,570 --> 00:00:57,620 To have a beautiful day, Madeira, that's great. 18 00:00:57,630 --> 00:01:00,230 I have also changed locations. I have also changed location. 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,360 I'm in London. I'm in London. 20 00:01:01,370 --> 00:01:03,410 Looks like we're like running after each other. 21 00:01:03,420 --> 00:01:06,970 Like missed, Like it's like we're not like, swapping out 22 00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:12,510 spots in there. Neither of us are right. 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,670 It's like a weird thing when I'm but but but but it sounds it 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,270 sounds it sounds like we'll be together starting Monday. 25 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,760 So I cannot wait. I cannot wait. 26 00:01:20,770 --> 00:01:24,910 You know I fixed my issue. Ovi also texted Meadows You have 27 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,210 to take me working out you know all these in like full like 28 00:01:27,220 --> 00:01:29,260 Rocky Balboa mode and shit like he's gonna do crazy. 29 00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:33,100 So all my workouts in got my workouts in I get my golfing 30 00:01:33,110 --> 00:01:35,470 with my boy and and then we're gonna see. 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,050 I mean listen I I hope I hope your your your father-in-law is 32 00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:41,450 ready for that smoke. You know let me know if he's 33 00:01:41,460 --> 00:01:44,220 like way better than us so I don't get sharked on the course. 34 00:01:44,230 --> 00:01:47,980 Because you know like the gamble but should be it should be a fun 35 00:01:47,990 --> 00:01:49,550 time. But anyways, anyways, anyways 36 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,430 I'm gonna go quick here because today on the show, today today 37 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,890 we have a stacked stacked stacked our coming up for you. 38 00:01:56,900 --> 00:01:59,730 Also can crypto obviously market report as usual gonna get 39 00:01:59,740 --> 00:02:02,010 through the market. OK crypto rally while stocks are 40 00:02:02,020 --> 00:02:03,520 puking. That's topic number one. 41 00:02:03,530 --> 00:02:05,490 Topic number 2 will go through Biden's foot. 42 00:02:07,030 --> 00:02:08,240 Yeah. It's like I see. 43 00:02:08,250 --> 00:02:10,380 Yes. You know what forget that. 44 00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:12,460 Like Catholic Church. Like we didn't finance like most 45 00:02:12,470 --> 00:02:15,150 of the show or something, right. Maybe I shouldn't say that today 46 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,400 we have Jesse on anyways. Binance wide and Gesler 47 00:02:18,410 --> 00:02:21,240 testifies in front of the House of. 48 00:02:21,250 --> 00:02:23,300 I don't know why but we'll talk about this in a minute. 49 00:02:23,630 --> 00:02:26,420 Pudgy Penguins. Pudgy Penguins, man. 50 00:02:26,530 --> 00:02:29,820 Well, the fibre good in NFT line today actually in general. 51 00:02:29,830 --> 00:02:31,110 I love that. Well maybe we'll talk about this 52 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,080 a little bit but pudgy Penguins in 2000 Walmarts fun fact that's 53 00:02:34,090 --> 00:02:36,100 like 40% of all Walmarts in America. 54 00:02:36,190 --> 00:02:38,030 It's pretty wild. It's like 4000 something stores 55 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,060 so crushed it. Of course you've seen after we 56 00:02:41,070 --> 00:02:44,330 had a bunch but it I think Ovie has I think Mando everybody's 57 00:02:44,340 --> 00:02:46,810 tweeting about this in a positive light which is great. 58 00:02:46,820 --> 00:02:48,620 This is good. This is going to all rallied 59 00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:51,830 together especially with this with with this algorithm and put 60 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,040 that forth and what's happening Pudgy Penguins then and then 61 00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:56,350 Xbox. Xbox. 62 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,290 Yeah they may enable crypto we saw that in the in the league. 63 00:02:59,300 --> 00:03:03,540 But guess who won't JP Morgan won't back anyways they might 64 00:03:03,550 --> 00:03:06,290 miss out on that one. And the last but not least, we 65 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:12,450 will be joined by Jesse Pollack, contributor number 001 of BASE. 66 00:03:12,460 --> 00:03:14,550 OK, pretty much the creator of base right? 67 00:03:14,620 --> 00:03:16,830 Where you know we talk about friend tech every single day 68 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,620 where yeah that's also built fun stuff. 69 00:03:20,630 --> 00:03:21,900 Whoop. We're gonna have a lot of fun 70 00:03:21,910 --> 00:03:25,040 stuff to to jam about today on the show. 71 00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:27,200 So hang tight. Gave your boys a retweet. 72 00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:29,830 Give your boss a follow If you're on YouTube give your boys 73 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,840 a subscribe a like a comment and everything else to get 74 00:03:32,850 --> 00:03:34,660 algorithms going and then without. 75 00:03:34,750 --> 00:03:38,400 And then last but not least, of course this show is powered by 76 00:03:38,410 --> 00:03:42,620 cracking. So go to kraken.com cracking 77 00:03:42,630 --> 00:03:49,720 NFT, but go cracking.com/rug radio RUGRADIO to find out more 78 00:03:49,730 --> 00:03:52,390 about what they are up twos anyways. 79 00:03:52,460 --> 00:03:54,830 Anyways. Anyways, it is where we get this 80 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,970 going for topic number one for the market report, but also can 81 00:03:58,980 --> 00:04:03,030 crypto rally while the stocks are puking solving random what's 82 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,890 happened? What's happened in this market 83 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:08,010 land? Yeah, it's a bit strange because 84 00:04:08,020 --> 00:04:10,560 it seems to be developing as this show goes on, and the 85 00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:15,940 answer to that is no. We had an overnight rally in 86 00:04:15,980 --> 00:04:20,180 Ethan and Crypto Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin nearly hit. 27, 87 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:24,250 OK. I think I've got about 16301640 88 00:04:24,260 --> 00:04:29,350 area and then kind of in the last hour has like puked about 3 89 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,330 or 4% lower. Don't really see any headlines 90 00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:36,010 there other than Gensler right now is testifying. 91 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:39,010 So there may be some headlines around that, but yesterday was a 92 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:42,910 really weekday macro. So, and this has been building 93 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,850 for the last few weeks, the SMPS headed back to its 200 day 94 00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:53,000 moving average around 4200. I think doctor down about 7% 95 00:04:53,050 --> 00:04:57,800 since the Fed took out its recession talk in July. 96 00:04:57,810 --> 00:05:02,540 So it's been a really, really soft period for macro in general 97 00:05:02,550 --> 00:05:04,600 and it just intensified. Yesterday stocks were down about 98 00:05:04,610 --> 00:05:08,020 2%. A lot of the major tech stocks 99 00:05:08,030 --> 00:05:11,120 like Apple, NVIDIA rule quite a bit lower. 100 00:05:12,030 --> 00:05:14,040 So just a really bad sentiment at the time. 101 00:05:14,050 --> 00:05:18,380 Crypto didn't really move. Bitcoin kind of still held about 102 00:05:18,850 --> 00:05:26,410 26 K kind of held around. UM 1590 at the time, and it felt 103 00:05:26,420 --> 00:05:29,170 as though today we might see a bit of a rally because stocks 104 00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:30,500 have opened slightly higher today. 105 00:05:31,420 --> 00:05:34,020 Or at least marginally higher on things like the NASDAQ that 106 00:05:34,030 --> 00:05:38,610 they're kind of flat on the Dow and we just haven't been able to 107 00:05:38,620 --> 00:05:40,610 hold on to the gains that we had this morning. 108 00:05:40,620 --> 00:05:45,430 So it was a bit of a pump and then seemingly as always become 109 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,050 deflated over the last few minutes, probably with what 110 00:05:50,060 --> 00:05:51,760 Kenzo has been saying in front of the house. 111 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,930 That was a crazy chart if you ask me. 112 00:05:55,700 --> 00:05:59,430 Look at this market is unpredictable anymore as a third 113 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,140 party here. Like just watching and listen to 114 00:06:01,150 --> 00:06:02,820 you guys everyday I'm looking at this. 115 00:06:02,830 --> 00:06:05,440 I'm like holy like. I missed that. 116 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:11,360 Ohh yeah. Yeah, that. 117 00:06:11,370 --> 00:06:13,740 Yeah, that was the power cut dump right there. 118 00:06:13,750 --> 00:06:17,340 Like it basically happened as I was coming onto the show. 119 00:06:17,750 --> 00:06:20,470 I think when I was when I was on my way from the airport, it was 120 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:26,050 like 1620 area, 1625 and then as we came on it just kind of gave 121 00:06:26,060 --> 00:06:30,560 up another 2% or so. So whatever the rally was last 122 00:06:30,570 --> 00:06:33,800 night has been has basically been eradicated. 123 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:35,710 I mean, it's not, we're not in a bad situation. 124 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,300 Crypto still massively outperformed stocks, but the 125 00:06:38,310 --> 00:06:41,660 idea that we could rally while stocks were going lower seems 126 00:06:41,670 --> 00:06:44,050 like. That has been put to bed. 127 00:06:45,540 --> 00:06:49,050 That move right there. It's funny because you had that 128 00:06:49,060 --> 00:06:51,720 that topic going before you saw The Nuke and then he came on the 129 00:06:51,730 --> 00:06:55,100 three studios. Like, wait, wait, that's not 130 00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:57,770 working out pretty well for us. What's Gary saying? 131 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,350 What's Gary saying? What's happening? 132 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,110 Does anyone has is there like is one word on it? 133 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,780 His comments were pre released, so you actually got the 134 00:07:05,790 --> 00:07:10,070 statement yesterday and he yesterday evening and he 135 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,830 basically said that we needed more compliance from the crypto 136 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:15,990 firms. Nothing he hasn't said before, 137 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,110 just generic Gary Fudd, let's just put it to that box. 138 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,000 Interestingly, 4 of the senators that put forward, and actually I 139 00:07:24,010 --> 00:07:27,270 think they're just Congressman actually, but they put forward a 140 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,190 motion yesterday basically saying that. 141 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,470 Like, Gary got to approve these ETFs and within hours he then 142 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,610 delayed the RTF. Those all those representatives 143 00:07:38,620 --> 00:07:39,990 there are actually grilling him today. 144 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,690 So I was hoping for a bit more of a grilling today from the 145 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:47,150 people that have been vocal critics of him. 146 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,370 But we haven't really seen that. There's been various other like 147 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,390 fun pieces overnight, but none of it seemed to stick. 148 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,350 So I don't really know what over the last few minutes caused this 149 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,770 dump, but maybe it's something that he's saying. 150 00:07:59,780 --> 00:08:02,750 I'm haven't really been following notifications on for a 151 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,940 bunch of these guys and I haven't seen anything just yet. 152 00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:08,800 So it'll probably come out at some point during the show and 153 00:08:08,810 --> 00:08:12,270 and we'll figure it out but I'm not seeing much anything much 154 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,880 and I'm assuming same for you Ovie. 155 00:08:16,890 --> 00:08:18,700 But because you had your Internet cut and everything but 156 00:08:18,710 --> 00:08:22,410 there's just a tweet from 4414 minutes ago but the dump started 157 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:27,130 like 45 ish but it says SEC would have about 8% of staff 158 00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:29,190 working in shutdown says Gensler. 159 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,830 SEC has taken feedback into account and rulemakings per 160 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,250 Gensler again, but there's nothing else because that Walter 161 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:38,370 Bloomberg is usually like on top of it with all these. 162 00:08:38,380 --> 00:08:40,370 But there's. It just feels like it's just 163 00:08:40,380 --> 00:08:43,530 liquidity games maybe it's like this feels like there was no 164 00:08:43,539 --> 00:08:46,820 news to take it higher and then we've just gone straight back to 165 00:08:46,830 --> 00:08:49,020 where we were. Yesterday, which is still a big 166 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:52,280 outperformance, but yeah, it's just. 167 00:08:52,290 --> 00:08:57,300 It's interesting because you know that really is the ARC ETF. 168 00:08:58,170 --> 00:09:01,880 That has a earlier final deadline date than all the other 169 00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:03,340 ETF. The deadline for that is 170 00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:08,620 actually the 10th of January. So was the delay just like a 171 00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:11,480 random delay or was the delay because this yesterday was the 172 00:09:11,490 --> 00:09:14,590 deadline for them to come up with like an interim deadline 173 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,740 for this with the decision? I I'm not sure I know have some 174 00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:21,510 headlines in October, right there are. 175 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,070 All the all the all the main like Black Rock Fidelity et 176 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,540 cetera that all 17 Clover. But they're they're later in the 177 00:09:29,550 --> 00:09:32,180 cycle. The ARK ETF is, you're right, is 178 00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:34,940 is by, is by two months ahead. Yeah. 179 00:09:35,090 --> 00:09:38,300 So on 11/11 was a third deadline which they've already decided to 180 00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:42,040 push and the last deadline is on is on on January. 181 00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:43,650 January So they What do they push? 182 00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:47,700 They pushed 1111, yeah, they pushed 1111 and they already 183 00:09:47,710 --> 00:09:51,320 pushed up with the I shares one, right Mando I think, I think was 184 00:09:51,330 --> 00:09:53,450 one of them. No, they have no issues with 185 00:09:53,460 --> 00:09:55,360 that. One, yeah, they haven't 186 00:09:55,370 --> 00:09:57,360 published it yet. It was strange. 187 00:09:57,370 --> 00:09:59,380 People don't know why they pushed that one first because 188 00:09:59,390 --> 00:10:04,260 obviously there are other deadlines ahead of that and like 189 00:10:04,310 --> 00:10:07,430 Kathy and a number of other people have been saying, they 190 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,280 expect several of them to be approved at the same time. 191 00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:14,550 So either they're screwing ARC here and allowing all the others 192 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:19,030 to get approval, or they it may be a strange scenario where. 193 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,750 Black Rock inside. Job, yeah, maybe. 194 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,440 Who knows like part of this is related to the government 195 00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:30,500 shutdown as you just said as I said if that goes ahead and. 196 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:35,520 There was a a deal, I think put forward by McCarthy yesterday, 197 00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:38,700 which makes it more likely that they may be able to strike a 198 00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:42,500 deal before the end of the week. But if there is a government 199 00:10:42,510 --> 00:10:44,380 shutdown that's really gonna affect the SEC. 200 00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:47,100 They're gonna have staff working. 201 00:10:47,170 --> 00:10:50,760 So 92% of the staff, but there there were 10. 202 00:10:50,770 --> 00:10:53,020 People, let's be honest, if you were in office and there's only 203 00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:55,460 8% of people there, no, nothing's getting done. 204 00:10:55,510 --> 00:10:57,330 Literally nothing is getting done. 205 00:10:57,340 --> 00:11:03,050 And that's 4200 employees, bro. What's 88% of of 4200? 206 00:11:03,460 --> 00:11:11,610 4200 * 100 like from that. What is this is this is a lot, 207 00:11:11,620 --> 00:11:12,930 you know. It's not a lot of employees 208 00:11:12,940 --> 00:11:15,840 left, but still quite a bit. Enough to fight crypto? 209 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,260 There's no way. There's no way anything gets 210 00:11:18,270 --> 00:11:20,080 done for a while. I don't know how long government 211 00:11:20,090 --> 00:11:22,690 shutdown would last, but it would probably delay all those 212 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:25,340 decisions as well, just from an admin perspective. 213 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:30,270 But yeah, if the answer to the question can crypto rally while 214 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,280 stocks puke, it doesn't look like they can, but it does look 215 00:11:33,290 --> 00:11:35,150 like they can outperform for now. 216 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:38,600 OK, well that's good. That's good enough. 217 00:11:38,610 --> 00:11:42,560 Yeah, good point. On the ETF side, Ohh, because I 218 00:11:42,570 --> 00:11:44,860 I thought yes it was some two of them were already delayed and I 219 00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:46,860 thought maybe they're going ahead and delaying ahead of the 220 00:11:46,870 --> 00:11:49,160 government shutdown cause like September, October is around the 221 00:11:49,170 --> 00:11:52,520 corner, like it's this October is Sunday right or Saturday 222 00:11:52,530 --> 00:11:53,920 forgot which day. But Sunday. 223 00:11:53,930 --> 00:11:56,690 Yeah, Sunday, right? So I figured maybe, like, he's 224 00:11:56,700 --> 00:11:58,660 like, hey, let me front run these crypto Bros and, like, 225 00:11:58,670 --> 00:12:02,240 ruin their October. But whether they know October 226 00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:04,160 has that prefix for a reason, Gary. 227 00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:11,300 Anyways, with that being said, with with that being said, a 228 00:12:11,310 --> 00:12:14,340 topic number two of the day, yes. 229 00:12:14,350 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaking of Gary Gaz, I mean he's testifying. 230 00:12:16,290 --> 00:12:19,460 I don't think we have much to say on that front yet, but there 231 00:12:19,470 --> 00:12:26,400 is more Binance FUD going around Mando as the CEO of Binance Fund 232 00:12:26,770 --> 00:12:29,980 reports. Milo, why did you tell me? 233 00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:32,890 I just feel like you're so good at the Binance stuff. 234 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:34,860 Like you're honestly just like an expert in Binance. 235 00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:37,780 Remember when like used to be my go to medic guy for a moment and 236 00:12:37,790 --> 00:12:39,960 even like down three months later I ask you about Matic and 237 00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:41,400 like, why are you sending me about Matic? 238 00:12:41,510 --> 00:12:43,600 I feel like I'm just gonna be asking you about Binance for 239 00:12:43,610 --> 00:12:46,280 next years. So by the way, I saw some stuff, 240 00:12:46,290 --> 00:12:49,520 but Russia, blah, blah, blah. So tell us, give us a TLDR here. 241 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:53,550 This this was just a new article by the Wall Street Journal, who 242 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,390 generally are pretty close and and seem to have good sources at 243 00:12:56,450 --> 00:12:59,570 various different places, but basically saying that the 244 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,140 Department of Justice is yet to finish its investigation into 245 00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:06,210 violence. There have been some talks that 246 00:13:06,260 --> 00:13:11,390 had already happened, but that it is highly likely that the end 247 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:19,790 of this will be fines for CZ and for Binance, and most probably 248 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,010 some sort of criminal charges for both of them. 249 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,350 Um, so. It's kind of a preemptive thing, 250 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,110 this is. Maybe unsurprising. 251 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,850 I think many people were expecting maybe fines over 252 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:37,170 criminal charges, or maybe the fines would absolve them from 253 00:13:37,330 --> 00:13:40,580 some of their criminal charges. So let's wait to see. 254 00:13:40,590 --> 00:13:45,260 But. And CD came out and basically 255 00:13:45,270 --> 00:13:52,090 did a four tweet. And yeah, like a bit of like war 256 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:54,610 words between him and the Wall Street Journal there for a 257 00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:56,500 little bit. But yeah, I think you have to 258 00:13:56,510 --> 00:13:59,280 expect that that's coming. Like you have to expect there's 259 00:13:59,290 --> 00:14:04,870 gonna be some form of charges against CZ coming very shortly, 260 00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:07,790 would expect in the next weeks or months. 261 00:14:09,270 --> 00:14:10,820 Maybe that's why this is selling off right now. 262 00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:14,620 Maybe we're gonna get it today. But I yeah, right Before shuts 263 00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:15,310 down. Right. 264 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,790 Let's go give it. I rather it's all come at once. 265 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,110 You know when it rains it pours. I'm used to this in life. 266 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,550 So if you could just just, you know pour it out right. 267 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,610 Just like I did with the milk. You know, like just like just 268 00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:31,030 one one go and that way we can see what's going on. 269 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,690 Look that that WSJ headline is not great like I we don't like 270 00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:36,610 to hear it. Right. 271 00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:38,830 And they said like every situation door is do or die, 272 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,960 apparently. According to the cofounder. 273 00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:43,260 However, the tweet that you LinkedIn your minutes this 274 00:14:43,270 --> 00:14:45,780 morning does say that there's nothing new that was revealed, 275 00:14:45,790 --> 00:14:47,540 right? It said the Wall Street Journal 276 00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:50,660 article does not contain any new information, nor does it reveal 277 00:14:50,670 --> 00:14:54,170 any progression in in DOJ's negotiations with Binance. 278 00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:56,720 So that's that's for that. I guess it's just shedding 279 00:14:56,730 --> 00:15:00,070 light, more light because it's good to flood it almost. 280 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:01,920 Exactly. It's It's kind of annoying at 281 00:15:01,930 --> 00:15:03,800 the moment because you just feel like a lot of this stuff is 282 00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:07,250 going on behind closed doors and I'd rather just get it out 283 00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:08,740 there. And we're having to hear about 284 00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:12,090 this from a Wall Street Journal article, which seems a bit. 285 00:15:12,190 --> 00:15:15,640 Ridiculous. But yeah, I expect we will 286 00:15:15,650 --> 00:15:18,050 hopefully hear a resolution on that relatively soon. 287 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,990 OK, perfect. Finance basically sold. 288 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,110 It's sold disruption operations to itself today. 289 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:25,950 Yeah. So that may be itself, right? 290 00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:30,420 Well, it it sold it to some random exchange comments ever 291 00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:33,560 heard of. And then Comex seems to have 292 00:15:33,570 --> 00:15:36,100 exactly the same UI UX as finance. 293 00:15:36,110 --> 00:15:37,860 It looks exactly the same. They work in the same building, 294 00:15:37,870 --> 00:15:40,560 the same address, bro. They work in the same building. 295 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:47,570 So yeah, that's that looks dodgy, but rushes where a lot of 296 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:49,480 the money laundering stuff that people have been. 297 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,810 Have had they gotten for his his from undisclosed amount. 298 00:15:54,610 --> 00:15:57,400 The Twitter for comics was created in 2023. 299 00:15:57,970 --> 00:16:00,320 Just all sorts of funny things. I saw it this morning and 300 00:16:00,330 --> 00:16:02,480 obviously I texted to you guys first because I figured you 301 00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:04,930 would you would talk about it today but I just thought it was 302 00:16:04,940 --> 00:16:09,180 funny. So it's I guess we'll see we'll 303 00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:12,260 see what happens on the Binance front with regards to that. 304 00:16:12,270 --> 00:16:18,080 But you know best of luck and and and we'll see where where we 305 00:16:18,090 --> 00:16:21,300 go next with that anyways. But on better side in the news 306 00:16:21,370 --> 00:16:23,570 right now we're not going to talk about Marquis Bugatti. 307 00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:25,580 We're not going to talk about food or whatever. 308 00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:30,470 And as a matter of fact for a rare time in a long time we got 309 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,700 some really I like personal opinion And then you guys said 310 00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:36,420 what you think some very positive news coming out of the 311 00:16:36,430 --> 00:16:42,110 NFT space as Pudgy Penguins CEO Luca Netz announced that the 312 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,130 brand Pudgy Penguins debuted its toy collection in 2000 Walmart 313 00:16:47,140 --> 00:16:49,930 stores. Each tour provides access to 314 00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:53,550 Pudgy World, a multiplayer digital social experience which 315 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,310 could help improve visibility and users of the Pudgy brand. 316 00:16:57,380 --> 00:17:01,940 And so in a very well written thread yesterday with videos and 317 00:17:01,950 --> 00:17:04,780 whatnot, we got the whole rundown of like what the Pudgy 318 00:17:04,790 --> 00:17:06,500 world is. And you know, Brave New World 319 00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:08,940 was obviously like the big thing. 320 00:17:08,950 --> 00:17:11,359 Actually, it's funny because in your guests like mine, you talk 321 00:17:11,369 --> 00:17:15,140 about a metaverse, A Metaverse. You could argue that if it's not 322 00:17:15,150 --> 00:17:16,140 a metaverse, it's kind of a game. 323 00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:18,280 Like it feels like they're kind of bringing Club Penguin back 324 00:17:18,290 --> 00:17:20,650 with Brave New World, like the that that was the other news, 325 00:17:20,660 --> 00:17:22,530 right? Aside from the, from the, from 326 00:17:22,540 --> 00:17:24,700 the toys in Walmart. So that was pretty cool. 327 00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:27,020 But 2000 Walmarts, I mean, that's significant. 328 00:17:27,030 --> 00:17:29,970 We knew for a fact that he had made multiple trips look to 329 00:17:29,980 --> 00:17:33,090 Arkansas, so Arkansas at Walmart is based so something like that, 330 00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:35,320 multiple trips there. He posted screenshots of like 331 00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:38,570 selfies there already months ago but it looks like in just under 332 00:17:38,580 --> 00:17:40,370 a year. I mean looking at scheme, it was 333 00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:42,900 with the Collective. They acquired the pudgy Penguin 334 00:17:42,910 --> 00:17:44,980 brand for two and a half million dollars and what was like an 335 00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:47,270 iconic back and forth tweet between himself and Beanie at 336 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:48,830 the time. Like Beanie was like I'll give 337 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,940 500 E to to what was his name Cole to buy the pudgies. 338 00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:54,930 He came out and there was like 700 and 50th. 339 00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:57,840 Remember when 750 ETH was two and a half million by the way. 340 00:17:57,980 --> 00:18:03,420 And so and shit I just realised that but anyways and that's when 341 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:06,070 that collective acquired the pudgy Penguins would then you 342 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,550 saw the $9 million raise announcement from one KX. 343 00:18:09,910 --> 00:18:13,930 I not sure the the the the the valuation was disclosed but I'm 344 00:18:13,940 --> 00:18:18,160 assuming in the 30s between 30 to 50 if I you know if I'm right 345 00:18:18,170 --> 00:18:20,790 or wrong, I don't know. And then of course then you saw 346 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,970 this massive news. I like to think that this is the 347 00:18:23,980 --> 00:18:26,970 first time this year or one of the first times that we saw. 348 00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:30,890 I don't consider his marketing hype because all marketing this, 349 00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:32,330 what marketing's purpose is, right? 350 00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:34,450 Like are we not allowed to like market anymore right in the 351 00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:35,700 space. So I do think he was marketing 352 00:18:35,710 --> 00:18:37,750 properly. But I do think that the hype 353 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,340 that the marketing created was met and we saw that this is a 354 00:18:42,350 --> 00:18:45,720 positive reaction on the market. We saw Cyrus tweeted that there 355 00:18:45,730 --> 00:18:48,580 was a lot, a couple of sweeps by a big wallet that was not a 356 00:18:48,590 --> 00:18:51,420 farmer and a few other people that started buying up buggies. 357 00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:53,900 And the general sentiment, it seems I've got a really good 358 00:18:53,910 --> 00:18:56,280 positive general sentiment around NFT's in general. 359 00:18:56,620 --> 00:18:58,840 A lot of founders came out. I know you guys tweeted. 360 00:18:58,850 --> 00:19:01,940 I perceived Twitter but also founders other collections came 361 00:19:01,950 --> 00:19:06,430 out to to applaud looking at and his and and his team of course 362 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,530 on on delivering on on on the news number of new world. 363 00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:13,590 So curious about you guys, so actually I'll go with Mando 1st 364 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,340 and Ovi. But first question is what do 365 00:19:16,350 --> 00:19:18,620 you, what do you think of this news for the NFT space in 366 00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:20,480 general? But second question is do you do 367 00:19:20,490 --> 00:19:22,640 you believe that the expectations were met? 368 00:19:22,650 --> 00:19:26,660 In the meantime, I am going to bring P Somerset, Chief Officer 369 00:19:26,670 --> 00:19:28,760 at at Pudgy Penguins on stage on on Twitter. 370 00:19:28,770 --> 00:19:30,130 But Amanda, what are your thoughts here? 371 00:19:32,430 --> 00:19:34,110 I mean, I think it's great. I think it's great. 372 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:36,230 I think he teased this before, right? 373 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,110 I remember him being at the Walmart offices and I remember 374 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:43,040 seeing that and. But yeah, I think this is, this 375 00:19:43,050 --> 00:19:44,640 is big. It's kind of doing it a 376 00:19:44,650 --> 00:19:47,930 different way, maybe a bit more of a sustainable way in my 377 00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:49,830 opinion than most other NFT projects. 378 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,070 Like when we talk about other NFT projects, it's like this. 379 00:19:52,890 --> 00:19:53,890 Right. We think there's going to be 380 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:58,760 some parabolic, UM, IP player where you get air drop stuff. 381 00:19:58,850 --> 00:20:01,430 Pages is not doing it that way. They're gonna try and build a 382 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,060 consumer products business, mainly around toys but also 383 00:20:05,070 --> 00:20:09,420 clothing and then that's going to be a very strong foundation 384 00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,920 and then the NFTS are gonna be the IP play of that. 385 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:16,480 So in some ways it's less parabolic. 386 00:20:16,590 --> 00:20:20,670 So like projects didn't do like a 5X yesterday sometimes. 387 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,570 Also the market. It's part of the market too, but 388 00:20:23,580 --> 00:20:25,950 I think it's also because people recognise this is more about 389 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,780 building a business than like, right, We're gonna get royalties 390 00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:31,360 from this, we're gonna get some coin, AirDrop or something like 391 00:20:31,370 --> 00:20:33,780 that. It doesn't lead to the parabolic 392 00:20:33,790 --> 00:20:36,320 style increases, but I think this is awesome. 393 00:20:36,330 --> 00:20:38,640 I think we're building a really, really, really strong foundation 394 00:20:38,650 --> 00:20:41,100 for the business. I think you can be safely say 395 00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:43,830 that Project Penguin is going to be around for a long, long, long 396 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,400 long time. With the way they've set up like 397 00:20:47,450 --> 00:20:51,420 it's building themselves to be a brand for the future and that's 398 00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:54,780 very, very important for a lot of these NFTS companies, which 399 00:20:54,890 --> 00:20:58,010 the vast majority are just burning cash and we'll just, I 400 00:20:58,020 --> 00:21:00,160 don't know, I think they have a lot of trouble. 401 00:21:01,820 --> 00:21:04,920 And yeah, I think there's a good chance that that. 402 00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:10,600 Probably one of the best chances that this IP can become some 403 00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:16,840 sort of a a recognised brand, and I think that's kind of what 404 00:21:16,850 --> 00:21:20,420 a lot of people sold the dream for, but very, very few went to 405 00:21:20,430 --> 00:21:22,960 try and do it. So he's doing what I think a lot 406 00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:25,020 of other people said they were gonna do, and he's actually gone 407 00:21:25,030 --> 00:21:27,140 out and done it. So I think it's awesome. 408 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,590 I didn't really understand the fraud or like why there was even 409 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,830 any FOD yesterday, but nothing was like it was like fun. 410 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,660 It was always people sceptical. I think there's people liked, 411 00:21:38,670 --> 00:21:40,590 yeah people just trying to poke holes and whatever. 412 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,290 But overall percent love like honestly it was a lot of 413 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:46,770 positivity on the timeline even in chats and stuff. 414 00:21:46,780 --> 00:21:49,280 I think it was cool. You know what It's actually much 415 00:21:49,290 --> 00:21:50,700 more than that. So first of all in the market 416 00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:53,730 standpoint pudgies hit five Ethan pre pre thing, they 417 00:21:53,740 --> 00:21:56,670 weren't at 5 and so I was so contingent. 418 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,350 So they're up 7% in 24 hours, which is wow, like you have a 419 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:01,500 collection that pumped after announcement and the last time 420 00:22:01,510 --> 00:22:04,410 you guys saw that it was crazy and so you love to see that. 421 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,710 But part of the announcement, like of course it was a Pudgy 422 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,600 toys, which of course like a lot of people are saying about 423 00:22:08,610 --> 00:22:11,090 royalties. Well, if you licence your Pudgy 424 00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:14,430 Penguin out for that's being sold at Walmart and know for a 425 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,390 fact he's working on a programme because he's talked about this 426 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,290 in the Nitro ones like to see how people can licence to them, 427 00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:21,330 blah blah, which is really cool. Right. 428 00:22:21,620 --> 00:22:23,590 So it's not a third party licencing, the actual project 429 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,230 licence things from its own, you know, holders, which I love. 430 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,990 So it's a reshare there. I love the fact that there's a 431 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,020 collaboration with multiple projects so you can find like a 432 00:22:33,030 --> 00:22:36,220 Kempi panda hoodie, A sappy seals trade. 433 00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:39,970 Soon there's A creeps, there's D guards, there's youths, there's 434 00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:43,080 a bunch of others that I love. So Lucas like trying to put 435 00:22:43,090 --> 00:22:45,260 other people on something he's always talked about. 436 00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:48,130 And another thing is the Zika sink link here. 437 00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:52,920 It seems like there are tech partner for all the L2 solutions 438 00:22:52,930 --> 00:22:55,510 and what they're building now in a tech perspective. 439 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,040 That's ZK sync. And that's not like to just be 440 00:22:59,050 --> 00:23:03,220 glossed over in my opinion. It's it says in the tweet here, 441 00:23:03,450 --> 00:23:06,270 he says. It's actually in the last one. 442 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,040 One of them, he goes, Each toy comes the QR code that unlocks 443 00:23:10,050 --> 00:23:12,750 digital traits which can be redeemed in our digital social 444 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,740 experience. Pudgy World at pudgyworld.com, 445 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,470 now powered by ZK Sync by buyers can digitally collect and 446 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,130 connect with friends for nothing more than the purchase of a toy. 447 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:29,600 So there is much more than meets the eye here. 448 00:23:29,610 --> 00:23:31,670 Like the I feel like the Walmart thing is cool. 449 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,550 It's fired by he's going to have huge Christmas that that company 450 00:23:35,630 --> 00:23:37,110 set. Now they can tell his toilet is 451 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:38,930 so cute. Like everybody loves them and it 452 00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:41,000 seems like they're left right front and centre of every 453 00:23:41,010 --> 00:23:44,450 Walmart in America now. But the Zika singling for the 454 00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:46,650 tech is big and I think it's pretty awesome. 455 00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:49,110 But only I saw you tweet about about all this. 456 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:52,570 I mean what's your what's your general sentiment and and you 457 00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:56,270 think you know is this does this meet your expectation over under 458 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:57,610 like how do you feel about everything. 459 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,280 I think, and I just tweeted this now as I was thinking about it 460 00:24:00,290 --> 00:24:04,050 again, I think. What pudgy Penguins is on the 461 00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:07,770 brink of doing is delivering value to the holders without 462 00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:10,950 selling more NFTS. Yep, actually generating real 463 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,760 revenue and real cash flow without selling more NFTS, 464 00:24:14,770 --> 00:24:16,280 sustainable revenues and cash flow. 465 00:24:17,010 --> 00:24:20,530 And growing their IP and brand without selling more NFTS. 466 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,510 So like Luca by the way, who's like only 24 has out already 467 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:30,180 outperformed 95% probably more of most NFT project founders 468 00:24:30,190 --> 00:24:33,110 because the thing that he's done that is very smart is he's 469 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,400 taken. The existing IP that could only 470 00:24:36,410 --> 00:24:42,610 have been built within Web three and applied it to a sustainable 471 00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:45,970 and reliable business model and now they're able to generate 472 00:24:45,980 --> 00:24:50,970 real revenues with real partners and actually have a real 473 00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:53,700 business. And I think one of the questions 474 00:24:53,710 --> 00:24:57,430 that people are asking is. How does this benefit me as a 475 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,990 pudgy Penguins holder but look like if Pudgy Penguins as a toy 476 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,420 becomes this huge brand, this great big thing pudgy Penguins 477 00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:05,610 the original NFT's will have value. 478 00:25:05,620 --> 00:25:09,830 Like imagine if you could have imagine if Disney had released 479 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,910 all its characters as NFTS right when it started and you could 480 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,750 buy the original Mickey Mouse NFT's or I don't know like the 481 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,870 original Aladdin FT whatever it is they would be worth quite a 482 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,270 lot. They are they were are worth 483 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,190 quite a lot. Think about how much like first 484 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,890 edition Harry Potter books go for, right? 485 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:28,790 So I think that's how you. Need to perceive this like here, 486 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,410 he has an opportunity to. Build this great big brand 487 00:25:32,420 --> 00:25:35,930 outside of the NFT space, which I think is what you have to do 488 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,330 if you want to become a big global brand because let's face 489 00:25:39,340 --> 00:25:41,850 it, there's no one left in NFT's and he's done it the right way. 490 00:25:41,860 --> 00:25:44,510 He's done it by not dumping on existing NFT holders. 491 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,590 And if you compare his movements and what he's done to someone 492 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,580 like Doodles, Doodles had the same ambition. 493 00:25:50,590 --> 00:25:52,590 We're gonna, we're gonna be bigger than this we're gonna go 494 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,380 mainstream etcetera, etcetera. Well what do they do? 495 00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:58,210 They just like dumped they they monetize, they raise money by 496 00:25:58,290 --> 00:26:01,200 monetizing their holders and dumping more entities on them 497 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,800 and then they increase their supply to like. 498 00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:05,380 There's hundreds of thousands. So then the whole thing died and 499 00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:12,240 they actually lost. The loyalty of of their holders. 500 00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:14,980 Luca hasn't done that. He they haven't actually sold 501 00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:18,490 any NFP since he started and Country Penguins has 502 00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:21,730 outperformed. The vast majority of projects 503 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,370 and it has one of the strongest followings and and loyalties out 504 00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:28,770 there and and they're gonna crush it. 505 00:26:28,780 --> 00:26:32,610 And this is like somebody this 2024 year old kid doing this and 506 00:26:32,620 --> 00:26:34,690 it's not. I mean he's I don't take 507 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:36,080 anything away from him. He's very, very smart. 508 00:26:36,090 --> 00:26:38,940 But what he's doing is not like rocket science and it's just 509 00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:40,190 amazing that no one else has done this. 510 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,470 I think so. I think like, personally, I 511 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,250 think it's just like pretty incredible. 512 00:26:45,260 --> 00:26:47,510 And I think you have to take your hats off and give credit 513 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,460 where it's due. And I think they just do it the 514 00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:52,260 right way. I absolutely agree with every 515 00:26:52,270 --> 00:26:53,990 single thing you say. I'm not going to double down on 516 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,260 this because we're we're we're on we're crunching on time. 517 00:26:56,270 --> 00:26:58,530 I wanna go to people real quick. And I see Jesse Pollock in the 518 00:26:58,540 --> 00:27:00,440 studio on YouTube. So if you're not on YouTube yet, 519 00:27:00,490 --> 00:27:02,260 go to YouTube, look up rock radio. 520 00:27:02,270 --> 00:27:04,120 You know how to spell that. I'm not gonna share the link and 521 00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:07,060 get destroyed on my algorithm on X, but go and find us on YouTube 522 00:27:07,070 --> 00:27:09,380 because I see Jesse in the Stew. I see Jessie. 523 00:27:09,390 --> 00:27:11,600 So maybe like second or third best start in Web 3 because he's 524 00:27:11,610 --> 00:27:13,340 got his point all up to like I did this morning. 525 00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:15,160 But. And I'll bring him about people 526 00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:17,060 real quick. Well, I mean you're chief memes 527 00:27:17,070 --> 00:27:19,170 officer, but you Penguins, you one of the faces of the pudgy 528 00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:21,000 Penguins. You know it's like you think 529 00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:23,760 pudgy Penguins you think of of of PMC. 530 00:27:23,770 --> 00:27:26,230 So like what are you what are you what is your quick thoughts 531 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,940 on on everything we're saying and did we miss anything out And 532 00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:30,620 then you know obviously we'll we'll bring you back. 533 00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:33,200 I'm already chatting to Luca to figure a time out for him to 534 00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:35,400 come on the show and spend some time with us, but definitely go 535 00:27:35,410 --> 00:27:37,220 to your. Quick Yeah, man. 536 00:27:37,270 --> 00:27:39,600 Thanks for having me up. It's one of those things, right? 537 00:27:39,610 --> 00:27:43,020 Like where if you're outward focused and you're not, you 538 00:27:43,030 --> 00:27:46,890 know, I said a lot yesterday is like our bubble of like web 539 00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:50,020 three people is like actually really small. 540 00:27:50,090 --> 00:27:52,720 And one of the smart things Luca did was like when he first came 541 00:27:52,730 --> 00:27:54,780 in was like. Hey, like we're gonna lift you 542 00:27:54,790 --> 00:27:59,220 guys up by showing how great you are to the outward eye and so 543 00:27:59,230 --> 00:28:00,940 like that's one thing you do with the toys. 544 00:28:00,950 --> 00:28:04,630 So like we're in Vegas, not Vegas, but us San Diego Comic 545 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,000 Con. Like we had lines like 30-40 546 00:28:07,010 --> 00:28:11,100 minutes long, people coming and getting our toys that had no 547 00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:13,840 idea where NFT's they knew us from Giffy. 548 00:28:13,850 --> 00:28:17,960 They knew us from Instagram. So the fact that, you know, he 549 00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:20,760 came in with his marketing knowledge and said, alright, 550 00:28:20,770 --> 00:28:23,500 hey, we need to build this thing, not for the small bubble 551 00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:25,360 that we're in, but we need to lift that. 552 00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:28,480 Level that we're in up by showing how great you guys are 553 00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:31,270 to the outward eye. It's been awesome to see. 554 00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:35,090 And so yesterday was really cool too because like normally when 555 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:38,650 I'm like I like to do is like Fight Club by meaning it and I 556 00:28:38,660 --> 00:28:41,070 didn't have to do that because everybody else was like 557 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,440 everybody else in the space was attacking the club force was 558 00:28:43,450 --> 00:28:47,120 pretty great. Listen this is a a collective 559 00:28:47,130 --> 00:28:50,490 one I think I believe for the space and it's important I think 560 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:53,370 for for large forces to step up because it's easy to bash but 561 00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:55,250 then you know there's nothing much left of it. 562 00:28:55,260 --> 00:28:57,850 So anyways, P I'll let you know when we we all you'll probably 563 00:28:57,860 --> 00:28:59,890 know what we managed to get Luke on his interview and I really 564 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:01,870 want to dive deeper into everything that you guys got 565 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,830 planned up so thank you for coming up quick. 566 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,430 But last but not least like I say we're gonna dish the JP 567 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,610 Morgan and the Xbox gaming topic and want to talk about it 568 00:29:10,620 --> 00:29:13,530 tomorrow because that's a banger so gonna spend more time of it. 569 00:29:13,580 --> 00:29:18,040 But we are joined by the hardest and to getting crypto. 570 00:29:18,250 --> 00:29:20,820 Maybe maybe after Brian Armstrong where it's a Coinbase 571 00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:24,240 thing. But Jesse Pollack the 572 00:29:24,250 --> 00:29:28,300 contributor number 001 of base, creator of base, though he 573 00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:30,540 doesn't have the highest friend tech key. 574 00:29:30,550 --> 00:29:35,330 What's going on there? Exclaimed Jesse GM. 575 00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:36,790 Good morning. How are you doing today? 576 00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:39,190 Good morning, everyone. Doing great. 577 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,170 Can you hear me OK? Absolutely. 578 00:29:41,180 --> 00:29:44,210 We can hear you perfectly. I see you on stage with this 579 00:29:44,220 --> 00:29:48,070 glorious punk that you got going on on the Twitter space. 580 00:29:48,260 --> 00:29:50,530 So we're out here. So one last reminder, If you're 581 00:29:50,540 --> 00:29:52,630 on YouTube, yeah, you definitely want to be on because all four 582 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,070 of us are on here And. And one space also makes you 583 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,310 give it a retweet, but everything's recorded as usual. 584 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,610 Yada, yada, yada. So Jesse, I mean, wow. 585 00:30:00,620 --> 00:30:03,410 It's been a minute since we chatted on stage at Vicon. 586 00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:05,540 Yeah, that was good. The nation. 587 00:30:05,650 --> 00:30:09,070 I think that was the 1st place where Unchained Summer started 588 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,060 to enter the public eye. That's exactly where I was 589 00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:14,620 going. And so I was on stage with you 590 00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:17,290 Vicon, which was great that you know last week just slid in and 591 00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:19,640 I was sitting next to him and every time like what the FM I 592 00:30:19,650 --> 00:30:21,760 supposed to say next, this guy was struggling. 593 00:30:21,890 --> 00:30:24,260 This guy was shutting it down every time and he was handing me 594 00:30:24,270 --> 00:30:29,650 the mic and like and what you're going to say but it was no base 595 00:30:29,660 --> 00:30:31,530 yet right? Or not yet. 596 00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:34,290 There was nothing that you were just starting to talk punching 597 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:36,190 someone. You dropped the bar and I will 598 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,360 start with that and everybody stopped thinking like 400 people 599 00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:43,130 and it's pretty wild. But you said it's a builder 600 00:30:43,140 --> 00:30:47,820 spring and Unchained summer, and this is where you really dropped 601 00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:50,090 that bar and everybody stopped clapping everything you were 602 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:51,970 saying. And so I kind of want to start 603 00:30:51,980 --> 00:30:56,190 with says how has this unchanged summer gone thus far? 604 00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:00,400 And are we gonna see this unchanged summer continue and 605 00:31:00,410 --> 00:31:04,120 spiral down towards the the, the fall and the winter? 606 00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:08,660 Yeah I mean I think it's got I'm curious how do you think it's 607 00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:11,320 gone. I mean I think it's done great. 608 00:31:11,330 --> 00:31:13,830 I mean we talk about on chain activity on this show almost 609 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,430 every morning and we're obviously all we're we're all 610 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,470 see we're all on base we're all in front tech. 611 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,350 I think a couple of us at least minted the DK Motion artwork as 612 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,150 well and and played around I mean Mendel was like almost 613 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,930 about to become CEO of French at this stage him and Brett guy you 614 00:31:27,940 --> 00:31:32,580 know and so and so you know we we we I think once in summer so 615 00:31:32,590 --> 00:31:33,960 far has been incredible movement. 616 00:31:33,970 --> 00:31:35,550 What do you think? Well, how is how is launching 617 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,860 Summer been for you so far? Yeah, it's been interesting. 618 00:31:39,870 --> 00:31:41,960 I think it's been a long, a medium term friend. 619 00:31:42,010 --> 00:31:45,180 Money's moved off exchanges and to self custody. 620 00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:47,300 I think part of that is like long term holders often have 621 00:31:47,310 --> 00:31:50,300 them. A lot of that like big bags and 622 00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:52,020 like cold stories and all that sort of stuff. 623 00:31:52,030 --> 00:31:55,680 But yeah, it's been interesting, like even for Coinbase itself to 624 00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:58,660 go from being an exchange to kind of now being. 625 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,760 Being a a chain right like it's gonna be I think I saw the other 626 00:32:03,770 --> 00:32:07,440 day it makes 202 hundred grand a week or is it like something 627 00:32:07,450 --> 00:32:09,370 something very very high and I remember thinking. 628 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,090 People are gonna start now realising that Coinbase isn't 629 00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:16,050 just an exchange anymore, it's it's it's gonna be more of an 630 00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:18,470 infrastructure play than just than maybe some of the other 631 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,970 people in the space. Yeah. 632 00:32:20,980 --> 00:32:25,150 Well, I think our feeling is that on chain summer went and 633 00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:27,710 the whole on chain movement is going about as well as it could 634 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,150 be. When we were kind of working 635 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,160 towards the initial launch of base, we didn't really know what 636 00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:34,930 to expect. Like we were kind of bringing 637 00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:37,910 all the pieces together, trying to make sure that it landed in a 638 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,510 good way. But you never know whether 639 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,470 everyone's going to show up to the party like send out. 640 00:32:41,550 --> 00:32:44,270 Lot of invites, a lot of people say yes, but then until that 641 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,430 moment where everything actually happens, you never know exactly 642 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,090 how it will play out. And you know we're now six weeks 643 00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:53,070 later, there's more than half a billion dollars on base. 644 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,650 You're seeing it consistently be like #1, #2, #3 in transactions 645 00:32:57,660 --> 00:33:01,410 per day. Like that for us is about as 646 00:33:01,420 --> 00:33:03,070 good as it possibly could have gone. 647 00:33:03,140 --> 00:33:07,410 And I think for us it just feels like you know one more kind of 648 00:33:07,420 --> 00:33:12,250 step towards this cascade of on chain adoption that is starting 649 00:33:12,260 --> 00:33:15,330 to come. And the the, the role that we 650 00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:17,810 get to play is just making it easier for people to build, 651 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,010 making it easier for everyday people to actually use these 652 00:33:20,020 --> 00:33:22,770 cool new products that are being built and doing everything we 653 00:33:22,780 --> 00:33:25,730 possibly can to get a billion people on chain over the next 654 00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:29,940 few years, Well, you definitely, well, a billion. 655 00:33:29,950 --> 00:33:35,170 People he's he always comes in with the bars. 656 00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:38,630 I told you guys, it's hard to, it's hard to follow Jesse. 657 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,510 How do you get people? On game like how like I know 658 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,390 they've been those sort of comments before. 659 00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:48,380 I know CZ was always saying 100 million people, how we get 100 660 00:33:48,390 --> 00:33:50,410 million people. You've kind of done a 10X on 661 00:33:50,420 --> 00:33:52,830 that. So for me, I think some of the 662 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,530 main it's onboarding relation it's. 663 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,720 I guess even the tech like yeah. So how are you going to solve 664 00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:03,420 that? Like how you gonna? 665 00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:05,550 Get. Yeah, I think we basically think 666 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,930 about kind of like 3 big infrastructure unlocks. 667 00:34:07,940 --> 00:34:11,530 The 1st is lower cost block space and so that's what we're 668 00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:14,090 working on with space, right. It's how do we make it so every 669 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:15,830 transaction costs less than a cent. 670 00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:19,130 We're not there yet, but we're down you know 100 X from what 671 00:34:19,139 --> 00:34:23,090 ETH costs to the $0.10 range. And with 4844 and and Ding 672 00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,460 sharding we we see a path to getting to sub 10 for 673 00:34:25,469 --> 00:34:27,540 transaction costs. So we think that that's going to 674 00:34:27,550 --> 00:34:30,070 be a huge one. The second one is better wallet 675 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,480 experiences. And this is kind of both on the 676 00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:35,480 consumer wallet side, you know, and we're seeing, you know, a 677 00:34:35,489 --> 00:34:38,000 tonne of incredible wallets continue to mature, whether it's 678 00:34:38,010 --> 00:34:40,280 Coinbase wallet or Rainbow or family. 679 00:34:40,350 --> 00:34:42,210 I think we've, we've come a long way in the last year. 680 00:34:42,219 --> 00:34:45,159 But then also on the embedded wallet side, for instance, like 681 00:34:45,170 --> 00:34:48,610 friend tech, people were just able to use friend tech, right. 682 00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:51,250 They didn't have to worry about like setting up a crypto wallet 683 00:34:51,260 --> 00:34:53,560 and doing this whole like separate user journey. 684 00:34:53,630 --> 00:34:55,420 It was like, no, I want to use this app. 685 00:34:55,489 --> 00:34:58,160 It just works. And so I think that that's kind 686 00:34:58,170 --> 00:35:00,380 of the the second big thing where there's still more work to 687 00:35:00,390 --> 00:35:03,910 do, but will be a big kind of. Enabler for bringing a billion 688 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,610 people on chain and then take the third one and this one's a 689 00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:10,390 little, you know, earlier in its life cycle is really around 690 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,790 identity. I think that our one of our 691 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,380 thesis is that currently because of a lack of on chain identity 692 00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:19,730 and the ability to know who people are are just kind of 693 00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:21,530 indecency of that infrastructure. 694 00:35:21,580 --> 00:35:25,650 A lot of products that people would want to use or could use 695 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,600 just aren't possible. You know, think about like a 696 00:35:27,610 --> 00:35:30,550 credit card, right? Like in the off chain world. 697 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,750 That's the primary way most everyday people interact. 698 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:39,140 With lending and it's just not possible on chain today. 699 00:35:39,210 --> 00:35:41,780 And so we think that kind of getting better identity tools is 700 00:35:41,790 --> 00:35:43,160 going to be the third big unlock. 701 00:35:43,170 --> 00:35:45,570 And so I'd say those are the three big infrastructure things 702 00:35:45,580 --> 00:35:48,560 we're focused on. And then I think one of the 703 00:35:48,570 --> 00:35:51,880 things that I really believe is, you know, I feel like all of us 704 00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:54,380 are a little bit collectively traumatised by the last decade 705 00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:57,380 of crypto where for the most part growth has been flat except 706 00:35:57,390 --> 00:35:59,420 for these kind of spikes that have been driven by like 707 00:35:59,430 --> 00:36:02,260 speculative mania. But if you look at like 708 00:36:02,270 --> 00:36:04,910 traditional consumer products, right, you look at like TikTok 709 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,830 or you look at. Instagram like once those 710 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,770 products find product market fit, they grow very quickly, 711 00:36:10,860 --> 00:36:14,890 right, TikTok went from no users to billion plus users in a few 712 00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:17,410 years. You know Facebook obviously has 713 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,030 3 billion plus folks who are using it. 714 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,710 And so I think that like we haven't really had consumer 715 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,850 products with product market fit and crypto, but we are 716 00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:30,910 approaching the era of consumer products with product marketing 717 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,320 crypto. And once those products start 718 00:36:33,330 --> 00:36:36,270 emerging, they're going to just have dramatically different 719 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,920 growth curves. Than all of our experience with 720 00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:41,060 crypto thus far. And so I think it's gonna kind 721 00:36:41,070 --> 00:36:43,740 of catch people by surprise that we're gonna kind of hit this 722 00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:45,400 Inflexion point. We may have already hit this 723 00:36:45,410 --> 00:36:48,940 Inflexion point where we'll stop being kind of like flat from a 724 00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:51,780 growth perspective and we'll just start growing month over 725 00:36:51,790 --> 00:36:55,160 month with these use cases that have product market fit until 726 00:36:55,230 --> 00:36:56,760 literally a billion people are on chain. 727 00:36:56,830 --> 00:36:59,220 And so, you know, how quickly does that happen? 728 00:36:59,550 --> 00:37:02,800 You know, we'll see, but I think it's going to happen faster than 729 00:37:02,810 --> 00:37:07,300 people expect. Yeah, I suppose even the other 730 00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:10,480 day, like. I know, Tom coin Telegram coins 731 00:37:10,490 --> 00:37:12,960 are big and they're integrating already 800 million users I 732 00:37:12,970 --> 00:37:14,660 think. Wow, that's once you get the app 733 00:37:14,670 --> 00:37:17,080 right, sometimes you can onboard people very, very quickly. 734 00:37:17,130 --> 00:37:19,290 Frontex been an incredible example, actually put a tweet 735 00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:22,310 yesterday just being like two years ago, three years ago, all 736 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,240 of these sort of ideas people had and they ended up doing them 737 00:37:25,250 --> 00:37:28,040 on the wrong chain or they ended up doing it with too high a cost 738 00:37:28,050 --> 00:37:29,860 on an L1. It never really worked out. 739 00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:33,500 And just like the first example of if you take a step back, what 740 00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:35,300 could you ever use blockchains for? 741 00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:37,120 Like where do you need a public Ledger? 742 00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:41,110 Things like big social media. Take one of the objects like is 743 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,920 a good example or big ownership right systems or big financial 744 00:37:45,930 --> 00:37:48,900 systems and you can start to do these sort of things suddenly on 745 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,530 L2 like all of those ideas that we've had a few years ago, but 746 00:37:51,540 --> 00:37:55,600 we're restricted now. People can do now know Brian 747 00:37:55,610 --> 00:37:59,370 Armstrong had that really good tweet recently, which is like 748 00:37:59,380 --> 00:38:00,700 the 10 ideas he wants to see happen. 749 00:38:01,030 --> 00:38:03,300 Did you have an idea that French was coming? 750 00:38:03,390 --> 00:38:06,230 And I guess the second part of that is what else are you 751 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,680 excited about coming maybe to base that you might get the 752 00:38:08,690 --> 00:38:10,180 first look on some of this stuff? 753 00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:14,370 So did I have an idea that Frantic was coming? 754 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,090 Yeah. You know I I've been a user of 755 00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:21,190 Steel Cam which was kind of the first product that raised her in 756 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,100 team built maybe like 6-9 months ago and I I love that and it was 757 00:38:26,110 --> 00:38:29,320 really cool mechanic and so that was when I first kind of reached 758 00:38:29,330 --> 00:38:31,410 out to the team and was like this is awesome like let me know 759 00:38:31,420 --> 00:38:34,210 if I can help in any way. We had a bunch of conversations 760 00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:37,210 and and talked about kind of like how we could, you know, 761 00:38:37,220 --> 00:38:39,430 support from tech and how we could line that up with this 762 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,610 moment where we were going to be bringing base to the world and I 763 00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:44,000 think really like. All the credit goes to them. 764 00:38:44,010 --> 00:38:46,580 They kind of had the insight, ohh, there's all this energy 765 00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:48,860 like let's capture that energy and create a moment. 766 00:38:48,910 --> 00:38:52,080 And so they time the friend tech launch, I think they launched it 767 00:38:52,090 --> 00:38:56,050 on the day that base launched and that just kind of like, you 768 00:38:56,060 --> 00:38:59,960 know, again all credit to them, they built a really awesome 769 00:38:59,970 --> 00:39:02,400 product that I think has kind of captured the attention of 770 00:39:02,410 --> 00:39:04,720 crypto. You know, I was at main net and 771 00:39:04,730 --> 00:39:06,770 I was at permission less and I feel like all anyone wanted to 772 00:39:06,780 --> 00:39:11,140 talk about was Fred tech. Like everyone was like you by my 773 00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:13,320 key, You know, like, what's your experience? 774 00:39:13,330 --> 00:39:16,900 How are you using it? And and so yeah, I feel super, 775 00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:18,750 super grateful that we're getting to build with those 776 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,060 folks and like it's the first of many consumer products that 777 00:39:23,070 --> 00:39:25,800 we're gonna see really capture the attention of the world over 778 00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:29,380 the next you know, few months, quarters, years. 779 00:39:29,770 --> 00:39:33,680 So excited about that in terms of what's coming, you know, I'm 780 00:39:33,690 --> 00:39:36,620 not going to leak it off, but there's a lot coming. 781 00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:41,500 You know, I think what we're seeing is that folks like I 782 00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:45,290 think again like thanks to Friend Tech and others like 783 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:48,250 base. Pain and you know friend Pat, 784 00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:51,130 like people have basically seen ohh wow. 785 00:39:51,140 --> 00:39:54,110 Like the technology stack from the infrastructure perspective 786 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,820 is finally ready like with you know low cost L2 plus an 787 00:39:58,830 --> 00:40:02,490 embedded wallet, you can actually in a really rapid 788 00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:07,090 amount of time build really powerful products that everyday 789 00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:09,650 people can actually use. And I think that has kind of 790 00:40:09,660 --> 00:40:12,690 unlocked this next wave of excitement, innovation and I 791 00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:15,730 feel like we're at the very, very early stages of that where 792 00:40:15,740 --> 00:40:18,460 over the next little. While we're gonna see kind of 793 00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:21,240 all of these products that people have had kind of 794 00:40:21,250 --> 00:40:23,940 percolating in their heads but never really thought were quite 795 00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:26,720 ready from an infrastructure perspective, just come to market 796 00:40:26,730 --> 00:40:29,760 very rapidly. And I think that that, you know, 797 00:40:29,770 --> 00:40:31,360 some of them are going to succeed, some of them are going 798 00:40:31,370 --> 00:40:34,380 to fail, probably like 90% of them will fail because that's 799 00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:36,200 how it goes with products and companies. 800 00:40:36,210 --> 00:40:39,000 But I think there's a tonne of innovation that comes out of it, 801 00:40:39,010 --> 00:40:42,220 and most of it is going to be on these kind of consumer 802 00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:45,630 experiences that aren't necessarily speculative, they're 803 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,180 not necessarily financial. They're really just about giving 804 00:40:48,190 --> 00:40:50,500 people, you know, something cool to do. 805 00:40:50,890 --> 00:40:53,400 It happens to be on chain because that's the best place to 806 00:40:53,410 --> 00:40:57,060 build a product that's globally available that leverages these 807 00:40:57,070 --> 00:41:00,500 powerful new tools. But it's mostly just like, hey, 808 00:41:00,510 --> 00:41:02,710 this is something I want to do because it's fucking awesome. 809 00:41:04,070 --> 00:41:06,340 That's really cool, Jesse. Have a quick go on, go on. 810 00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:08,690 There you go. No, no, I was just going to 811 00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:11,490 challenge that slightly and just say I remember when some of 812 00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:15,780 these stuff was built on other L ones and the chain would go down 813 00:41:15,790 --> 00:41:18,490 and there would be like it's not ready, like the change up ready. 814 00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:20,960 Most of the laws that we have seen recently have gone down 815 00:41:20,970 --> 00:41:24,170 having even base was down for a little bit of a month ago and 816 00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:29,330 there's been some fraud about. Sequences, fraud, proofs or 817 00:41:29,540 --> 00:41:32,350 feeling quite centralised in similar sort of way. 818 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,530 Like how do you see this all developing? 819 00:41:35,540 --> 00:41:38,590 How do you see the infrastructure improving over 820 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,750 time to really capture maybe the same level of security that can 821 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,650 support these huge apps? Like if we're going to start 822 00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:49,140 doing crazy things on L2, we can't really have them going 823 00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:51,200 down. So how do you think we're going 824 00:41:51,210 --> 00:41:54,290 to be able to get to that stage? Yeah, absolutely. 825 00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:57,770 And yeah, like you said, Based had a little outrage the other 826 00:41:57,780 --> 00:42:00,910 day from Retro we actually published that shared all the 827 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,570 takeaways and you know, really investing in in continuing to 828 00:42:03,580 --> 00:42:06,640 increase the reliability, availability of the system and 829 00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:09,340 feel really confident that that we're gonna be able to do that. 830 00:42:09,410 --> 00:42:12,930 I think generally the way I think about this is especially 831 00:42:12,940 --> 00:42:15,400 like layer two, these systems are still relatively early, 832 00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:18,650 right like you know they're most are stage zero, stage one and 833 00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:20,400 kind of the decentralisation road map. 834 00:42:20,450 --> 00:42:24,380 But there's really clear kind of execution pathways that get us 835 00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:28,540 to stage 2 decentralisation and get us to that like highly 836 00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:32,710 available 4 to 5 lines of availability And and that's not 837 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,810 really like, hey, there's a bunch of unsolved research 838 00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:36,570 challenges that need to get fixed. 839 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,090 It's more like, ohh, we just need to do a bunch of hard work. 840 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,190 And we've kindly finally kind of pulled together all of the folks 841 00:42:42,260 --> 00:42:45,090 who have the ability to do that hard work because now there's 842 00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:47,290 like clarity, oh, this is going to be the path for scaling 843 00:42:47,300 --> 00:42:49,670 Ethereum. And so, you know, that's one of 844 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,310 the reasons why we decided to build based on this thing called 845 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,050 the open stack, which is like an open source technology stack. 846 00:42:55,060 --> 00:42:57,910 Basically with the intent of saying, hey, like we're going to 847 00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,930 contribute all of Coinbase's security expertise. 848 00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:02,110 We're going to contribute all of our scaling expertise from 849 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,990 scaling Coinbase for the last decade to this public good that 850 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,540 will power base and make sure that base is highly available, 851 00:43:09,550 --> 00:43:11,750 highly scaleable, highly decentralised. 852 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,590 But also for anyone else who wants to run a chain like 853 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,230 they're going to benefit from that too. 854 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,070 And I think kind of having all of us swarm on that, you know, 855 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,110 like open shared code base is actually going to be really, 856 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,470 really powerful for increasing the availability, reliability, 857 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,310 security and decentralisation of all of these different systems. 858 00:43:29,860 --> 00:43:34,580 So I I think that like we're gonna see that happen pretty 859 00:43:34,590 --> 00:43:37,560 quickly over the next few months and in in quarters. 860 00:43:37,650 --> 00:43:40,660 I do think that there will be, you know issues, right. 861 00:43:40,670 --> 00:43:45,750 And one thing that I, I think is you know like kind of an an 862 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,300 analogy is like in the early Internet days there were also a 863 00:43:48,310 --> 00:43:51,450 lot of issues, right. You know Twitter was like the 864 00:43:51,460 --> 00:43:54,880 whole meme of Twitter was fail Well, as it was kind of going 865 00:43:54,890 --> 00:43:58,780 from you know hundreds of people were using to millions of people 866 00:43:58,790 --> 00:44:01,300 and 10s of millions and hundreds of millions and billions or not 867 00:44:01,310 --> 00:44:02,770 quite billions. Hundreds of millions of people 868 00:44:02,780 --> 00:44:04,280 were using. Yeah like the Twitter fail. 869 00:44:04,290 --> 00:44:07,900 Well, Twitter used to go down for hours and they're like down 870 00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:09,860 Page was a whale, and so everyone called. 871 00:44:10,930 --> 00:44:13,360 I've seen only a couple of times, but it seems similar in 872 00:44:13,370 --> 00:44:15,320 the NFT space. I mean open C was down every 873 00:44:15,330 --> 00:44:16,500 time. You meant was out. 874 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,830 So if you equipment was down every time, you know, Bitcoin 875 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,710 price went to 40,000, right? And so like, look, this is not 876 00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,290 going to be perfect. You know, these things are gonna 877 00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:28,700 go through growing pains. That's what happens when you go 878 00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:31,190 from having, you know, millions of people to 10s of millions to 879 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,690 hundreds of millions to billions. 880 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,710 But I think we have all the right talent, we have all the 881 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:38,690 right focus and we're going to make them more and more 882 00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:41,100 reliable. I love that. 883 00:44:41,110 --> 00:44:42,620 I think this is great. It seems as such. 884 00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:45,320 Like obviously we've shared conversations before. 885 00:44:45,330 --> 00:44:47,800 You guys are heavily focused on creators and I've obviously seen 886 00:44:47,810 --> 00:44:51,260 everything you did with with with the UK motion, big fan of 887 00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:53,160 his. I mean we all are, we talked, we 888 00:44:53,170 --> 00:44:55,550 covered that in the show as well that we minted that as well, 889 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,380 definitely wanted one. So that was pretty cool. 890 00:44:58,430 --> 00:45:01,000 She was supported a lot of creators, seems like to be a big 891 00:45:01,010 --> 00:45:04,520 focus when it comes to base. Is that what you guys are mainly 892 00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:08,350 focused on at base like focusing infrastructure for creators in 893 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,480 the space and then my the follow up on that would be like any 894 00:45:11,490 --> 00:45:13,160 plans? Like supporting gaming 895 00:45:13,170 --> 00:45:15,400 infrastructure is like a lot of the other L twos that we're 896 00:45:15,410 --> 00:45:18,960 seeing. Yeah, yeah, I'd say our focus is 897 00:45:18,970 --> 00:45:22,570 consumer products like non financial consumer products and 898 00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:24,620 of course there will be the financial stuff like USC is 899 00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:26,300 going to be there, G5 is going to be there. 900 00:45:26,310 --> 00:45:28,840 But from a pure focus perspective, it's really on 901 00:45:28,850 --> 00:45:32,040 consumer products. And so for us that is kind of 902 00:45:32,050 --> 00:45:36,020 creators and creatives that's social and then that's gaming. 903 00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:39,660 Those are the three big kind of focus areas for us. 904 00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:43,140 And so that's why, you know, on Chain Summer, like we didn't 905 00:45:43,150 --> 00:45:46,190 talk about finance and perps and derivatives. 906 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,530 Like, no, it was all like, we're gonna show you cool things to do 907 00:45:49,540 --> 00:45:51,570 on Chain. And whether it's like Parallel, 908 00:45:51,580 --> 00:45:53,710 which is building this incredibly cool trading card 909 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:57,180 game, or Blackbird that's building like fully Unchained 910 00:45:57,190 --> 00:46:00,470 restaurant experience, you know, live in like 30 restaurants in 911 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,180 New York and growing really quickly. 912 00:46:02,610 --> 00:46:07,140 Or, you know, Zora Manifold highlight all these incredible 913 00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:11,370 creator platforms, like giving people a cool thing to do on 914 00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:13,310 Chain that they're actually excited about. 915 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,800 And they're like, oh, I get this, this is a cool piece of 916 00:46:15,810 --> 00:46:18,200 art or this is a cool way to interact with my favourite 917 00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:20,100 restaurant or this is a cool game that I want to play. 918 00:46:20,170 --> 00:46:22,840 Like I think our thesis is that's gonna be what brings 919 00:46:22,850 --> 00:46:24,580 these next millions of people on chain. 920 00:46:24,590 --> 00:46:27,510 And so that's really the the type of builder that we want to 921 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:32,990 be supporting and making sure that and on the gaming side 922 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,760 there's there's a lot more, a lot more coming. 923 00:46:36,490 --> 00:46:39,500 We we we've had a bunch of things launched just in the last 924 00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:42,140 few weeks. One that I love that is, is like 925 00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:44,860 super I guess two that I love that are super bottoms up. 926 00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:47,880 I already talked about Parallel which is you know like really 927 00:46:47,890 --> 00:46:50,530 cool trading card game. I think probably like the best 928 00:46:50,590 --> 00:46:53,360 gaming community on chain right now. 929 00:46:53,550 --> 00:46:56,300 But two like more smaller ones. There's one called Friend Pet 930 00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:59,760 which is kind of like a Tamagotchi with a whole like 931 00:46:59,770 --> 00:47:01,800 Unchained experience built around it. 932 00:47:01,810 --> 00:47:04,170 It's a progressive web app in the same way as friends back, 933 00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:07,130 Really cool. And then another one which 934 00:47:07,140 --> 00:47:09,010 launched just for a little preview and then it's going to 935 00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:10,850 relaunch in a in a in a month I think. 936 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,710 It's called words three, I think. 937 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:16,270 Is what it's called and it's like really cool derivative of 938 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,550 Scrabble where you kind of like earn money or pay for each 939 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,790 character that you place and then if people play on your 940 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,650 characters you earn back that money. 941 00:47:26,660 --> 00:47:29,430 And it was a whole kind of like 7 day competition. 942 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:34,210 A lot of gruelling battles between people trying to win it 943 00:47:34,220 --> 00:47:36,540 out and and they're coming back in a couple of months for the 944 00:47:36,550 --> 00:47:38,260 full. Yeah, I'm seeing. 945 00:47:38,270 --> 00:47:40,600 I'm seeing that here on your on your on your Twitter. 946 00:47:40,610 --> 00:47:42,610 Ohh, that's actually a different words game. 947 00:47:42,620 --> 00:47:44,000 Yeah, there's a lot of word games. 948 00:47:44,070 --> 00:47:45,550 Sorry. Yeah. 949 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,300 That's words that art, which is epic. 950 00:47:47,630 --> 00:47:51,660 The other one is words three, which you know it by letters to 951 00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:55,660 spell words and score points. So there's yeah, there's a lot 952 00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:59,240 of a lot of cool stuff coming. There's a lot of cool largest is 953 00:47:59,250 --> 00:48:02,440 coming too. Like Patrick who's epic. 954 00:48:02,670 --> 00:48:05,100 Patrick Rivera. They've been building some 955 00:48:05,110 --> 00:48:07,950 really cool stuff launching under this brand called the 956 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,610 world's largest and they're gonna be dropping I think next 957 00:48:11,620 --> 00:48:14,910 week or the week after and you just you just pat scrolled past 958 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:20,310 Ferrand which is like a purely pet creator on tree now which I 959 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,540 love my tweet on that as like basis for everyone including 960 00:48:23,550 --> 00:48:26,470 pets. You know like we again we just 961 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,830 want to be supporting people to have fun and you know there's 962 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,470 all sorts of ways people have fun including just like 963 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,730 literally watching pet videos and creating pet videos. 964 00:48:33,740 --> 00:48:37,050 So we want that on base too. That's great, man. 965 00:48:37,060 --> 00:48:38,480 This is awesome. It looks like there's a lot of 966 00:48:38,490 --> 00:48:39,960 stuff. I love the whole, like, I forgot 967 00:48:39,970 --> 00:48:42,380 the word that you use that how it's like an in app. 968 00:48:42,390 --> 00:48:44,840 It's an app. It's a progressive Web app. 969 00:48:44,970 --> 00:48:47,800 Progressive Web app I I'm such a huge fan of that. 970 00:48:47,810 --> 00:48:51,440 I kind of like hack that and you know kind of created the the the 971 00:48:51,450 --> 00:48:54,320 the social web app. I want to toss it back to my 972 00:48:54,330 --> 00:48:55,470 co-host here. But I have a quick question 973 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,130 because we're talking about friendship earlier and I kind of 974 00:48:57,140 --> 00:48:59,460 wanted to chime in here. Jesse Pollack is very important 975 00:48:59,470 --> 00:49:00,540 questions. Do you 33? 976 00:49:02,550 --> 00:49:07,340 I do, I do I yeah. I mean, I just buy everyone's 977 00:49:07,350 --> 00:49:11,080 keys on French who I can. I put some money in French. 978 00:49:11,090 --> 00:49:13,590 I put one ETH into French tech on like day one. 979 00:49:13,690 --> 00:49:17,100 And I just have like, you know, made trading fees and put them 980 00:49:17,110 --> 00:49:20,620 back into everyone. And so I'm here. 981 00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:26,990 I'm here, I'm here to support the holders on French tech. 982 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,290 Yeah, no, I've loved, I've loved, I've loved playing around 983 00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:32,330 with friend tech using it. I'm like a probably a daily 984 00:49:32,340 --> 00:49:36,100 active user at this point. And I think the thing that's 985 00:49:36,110 --> 00:49:38,990 kind of most impressed me about frantic is just how quickly the 986 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,590 team is iterating on the product. 987 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,750 Like I just opened it yesterday. I was like, oh, now I get like 988 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,970 red notifications for all of my messages and I can see how many 989 00:49:46,980 --> 00:49:51,170 people read them. It's like they're they're just 990 00:49:51,180 --> 00:49:55,290 like the, you know, the product was almost unusable on day one, 991 00:49:55,300 --> 00:49:58,780 and day one was like a month ago, and now it's like it has 992 00:49:58,790 --> 00:50:02,120 every social feature you want. And so I I'm, I've been really 993 00:50:02,130 --> 00:50:03,630 impressed with the the pace of that team's. 994 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:04,700 Execution. We we were. 995 00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:06,730 We were on day one. This is done. 996 00:50:06,740 --> 00:50:08,410 Yeah. I can see Jesse's OK you're 997 00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:09,270 active. Active. 998 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,790 OK, Jesse's acting like we're not leaking at chats here, but 999 00:50:12,860 --> 00:50:15,670 once you get the. Let's say I got the key. 1000 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,710 I think. I think it was .422. 1001 00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,130 How poetic. But. 1002 00:50:19,140 --> 00:50:21,920 It's. This is, this is great that you 1003 00:50:21,930 --> 00:50:23,480 do. You do talk a lot on that, which 1004 00:50:23,490 --> 00:50:25,160 is awesome. And make sure I don't buy a fake 1005 00:50:25,170 --> 00:50:27,240 one because I'm so good at buying fake fake. 1006 00:50:27,250 --> 00:50:29,020 He's here. But Mando, back to you if you 1007 00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:30,610 had. Yeah, do that. 1008 00:50:30,620 --> 00:50:33,660 Have you got have you got. Well, I gotta. 1009 00:50:33,730 --> 00:50:37,380 I gotta do my 3 three right now. So there we go. 1010 00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:40,060 I'm now I'm now for. OK, Holder. 1011 00:50:40,070 --> 00:50:49,800 That's where you live real time. I mean no, I think like it is 1012 00:50:49,810 --> 00:50:53,660 pretty remarkable though like you just open up your app and 1013 00:50:53,670 --> 00:50:57,580 you like kind of join my room and then in the next second I 1014 00:50:57,590 --> 00:51:00,860 opened up my app and join you. And like that wasn't this 1015 00:51:00,870 --> 00:51:04,030 complex crazy thing that like you know took a bunch of I 1016 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,400 didn't this transactions, you just did it on the show. 1017 00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:07,640 I just did it on the show right back. 1018 00:51:07,650 --> 00:51:11,000 And so I think that in and of itself is just indicative of 1019 00:51:11,070 --> 00:51:14,660 kind of like where we are getting to as an industry and as 1020 00:51:14,670 --> 00:51:16,620 a product stack. It's like this, this stuff just 1021 00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:18,960 getting easy, like it's just working. 1022 00:51:19,530 --> 00:51:23,170 It's it's finally usable in a way that, you know, maybe not 1023 00:51:23,220 --> 00:51:26,030 every everyday person can use, but more and more people can 1024 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,620 use. Yeah, this this is great so. 1025 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,050 I saw your tweet the other day, which was the tweet kind of in 1026 00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:35,520 response I think to the ethod that's kind of been circulating 1027 00:51:35,530 --> 00:51:38,390 for the last few days. Like it's got inflationary, like 1028 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,400 JP Morgan. Yeah, that negative piece being 1029 00:51:40,410 --> 00:51:43,530 like all transactions are down and actually just like complete 1030 00:51:43,540 --> 00:51:44,980 miss. Ohh. 1031 00:51:44,990 --> 00:51:47,630 Well I believe that completely painting the wrong picture of 1032 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,140 what is actually going on, which is all these which is everything 1033 00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:52,600 is just moved deltos and if you start counting that. 1034 00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:55,680 Transact, I think I saw the other day some like four times 1035 00:51:55,690 --> 00:51:57,950 the number of transactions is now taking place on L2 and L 1036 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,330 ones on a week on like 5 * 6 times. 1037 00:52:01,340 --> 00:52:03,550 So it's it's crazy how fast it's growing. 1038 00:52:03,740 --> 00:52:06,890 I mean, I was in, I was in a meeting with kind of the 1039 00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:09,230 Coinbase executive team yesterday and we were talking 1040 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:15,090 about just the L2 beat growth and it's like find another graph 1041 00:52:15,100 --> 00:52:20,350 in crypto that looks like the L2 transaction growth chart. 1042 00:52:20,780 --> 00:52:27,090 Like, I mean this is like every venture capitalist's dream, like 1043 00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:30,280 the most perfect up and to the right, that's like curving, 1044 00:52:30,290 --> 00:52:32,090 curving, curving, getting steeper. 1045 00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:36,070 And so I think for us it's like it's happening and we just want 1046 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,670 to put like more fuel on the fire. 1047 00:52:39,290 --> 00:52:41,640 That's that's my my second question there is, I think 1048 00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:44,580 people do find the L2 infrastructure like landscape a 1049 00:52:44,590 --> 00:52:47,630 bit more complicated. I mean they find down the L1 was 1050 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,080 complicated. I think the L2 was or maybe even 1051 00:52:51,090 --> 00:52:54,700 more nuanced like why did you end up going with the op stack, 1052 00:52:54,750 --> 00:52:57,520 How do you see these L2 wars developing? 1053 00:52:57,530 --> 00:53:00,380 Do you think everyone is an optimistic rollup versus like a 1054 00:53:00,390 --> 00:53:03,050 ZK for example? And are you thinking about doing 1055 00:53:03,060 --> 00:53:05,340 a different way? I don't like 5 different ways to 1056 00:53:05,350 --> 00:53:09,100 try and scale. Like are you gonna be just you? 1057 00:53:09,250 --> 00:53:13,200 You're an optimistic. Pull up Coinbase team now or are 1058 00:53:13,210 --> 00:53:15,400 you going to think about how we think about it slightly 1059 00:53:15,410 --> 00:53:17,750 differently? And 1st off, it's not like I 1060 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,960 don't think about this as wars, right? 1061 00:53:19,970 --> 00:53:22,620 I think one of the things that's really interesting and different 1062 00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:27,290 about the L2 thing versus the L1 thing is like an L1. 1063 00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:30,360 It was like these are totally different environments. 1064 00:53:30,370 --> 00:53:34,300 Like you're you're talking about like East and you know Solana 1065 00:53:34,310 --> 00:53:37,720 and Polka Dot and they're all like islands basically. 1066 00:53:38,010 --> 00:53:42,050 But the L2 and it's like we're all connected via Etherium. 1067 00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:44,750 And so, yeah, there's competitive dynamics in there. 1068 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,650 And like, yeah, we have to figure out, yeah, people are 1069 00:53:46,660 --> 00:53:47,990 using different technology stacks. 1070 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,150 Like at the end of the day, we're all aligned to Etherium. 1071 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,770 We're all using EDM. And so, like it, it doesn't feel 1072 00:53:54,780 --> 00:53:57,090 like a war to me. It more feels like, OK, we're 1073 00:53:57,100 --> 00:53:59,700 all kind of working together to figure out how we're going to 1074 00:53:59,710 --> 00:54:02,830 scale Ethereum. And then inside of that, like 1075 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,990 overall arching goal, overarching goal we have like, 1076 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,770 OK, who's going to scale Ethereum the most, which is 1077 00:54:08,780 --> 00:54:11,460 like, you know, like, sure, like I want to scale Ethereum the 1078 00:54:11,470 --> 00:54:12,610 most. And other people want to scale 1079 00:54:12,620 --> 00:54:14,170 theorem the most. But like at the end of the day, 1080 00:54:14,180 --> 00:54:18,820 it's all still scaling. I'm very, I think that yeah, 1081 00:54:18,890 --> 00:54:21,080 like you know it's hard not to be at this point. 1082 00:54:21,730 --> 00:54:23,580 So I think that that's the starting point for me. 1083 00:54:23,590 --> 00:54:26,990 In terms of why we we built on the OP stack, a bunch of 1084 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,160 reasons. You know we we spend basically a 1085 00:54:29,170 --> 00:54:31,920 year trying to figure out what our strategy should be here. 1086 00:54:31,970 --> 00:54:35,300 And after kind of working with and talking to pretty much every 1087 00:54:35,310 --> 00:54:38,520 team and going deep, I think we ended up saying hey like the OP 1088 00:54:38,530 --> 00:54:39,980 stack makes a tonne of sense for us. 1089 00:54:40,050 --> 00:54:41,840 That was kind of a technology decision. 1090 00:54:42,250 --> 00:54:44,880 You know feel like it's a really powerful technology platform. 1091 00:54:44,930 --> 00:54:48,700 It was a kind of a commitment to public goods and open source 1092 00:54:48,750 --> 00:54:51,640 like we love the way it was built with an MIT licence. 1093 00:54:51,650 --> 00:54:54,210 That felt really important to us and we want to contribute back 1094 00:54:54,220 --> 00:54:56,550 to that. It was also kind of a bet on 1095 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,670 decentralisation and particularly on optimism's 1096 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,360 ability to be kind of a counterweight to coin base like 1097 00:55:02,370 --> 00:55:04,610 you think about Coinbase it's like where the scaled public 1098 00:55:04,620 --> 00:55:06,890 company that centralised. On the other end of the 1099 00:55:06,900 --> 00:55:10,030 spectrum, optimism is like decentralised on chain 1100 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,530 governance kind of pushing the boundaries of what's possible 1101 00:55:12,540 --> 00:55:15,710 there and but like that pairing would work really, really well 1102 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,850 and they took the last thing is we just had gotten to know the 1103 00:55:18,860 --> 00:55:21,940 optimism team really well and we'd actually started working 1104 00:55:21,950 --> 00:55:25,870 with them at the very beginning of 2022 on EIP 4844 which is 1105 00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,770 this upgrade to Ethereum that's gonna lower fees on layer twos 1106 00:55:28,780 --> 00:55:30,880 like base by another 5X probably. 1107 00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:34,020 And so kind of that working relationship I think also kind 1108 00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:35,760 of gave us confidence that this is going to be a good 1109 00:55:35,770 --> 00:55:40,360 partnership in terms of kind of the optimistic versus ZK thing, 1110 00:55:40,430 --> 00:55:42,750 you know the way we think about base and the way we think about 1111 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,520 the open stack is it's not an optimistic rollup, it's a roll 1112 00:55:46,530 --> 00:55:50,660 up and it's going to have an optimistic prover for it which 1113 00:55:50,670 --> 00:55:53,810 can secure it. But we're also investing in ZK 1114 00:55:53,820 --> 00:55:56,530 proving stack for it. And so we actually just did kind 1115 00:55:56,540 --> 00:56:00,050 of a request for proposals to build this OK prover for the OP 1116 00:56:00,060 --> 00:56:02,570 stack that went out a couple of months ago. 1117 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,250 We got a bunch of great proposals. 1118 00:56:05,340 --> 00:56:08,890 I'm actually just trying to find this, let's see OP zero 1119 00:56:08,900 --> 00:56:12,100 knowledge proof. We got a bunch of proposals and 1120 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,570 gave out two kind of rewards for the grants, one to a company 1121 00:56:16,580 --> 00:56:21,030 called Risk Zero and one, two O1 Labs who built Meena. 1122 00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:25,480 And both of them have now built like pretty solid prototypes of 1123 00:56:25,490 --> 00:56:28,700 ZK provers for the OP stack with a kind of line of sight to 1124 00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:33,320 productizing that in you know the middle of next year at a 1125 00:56:33,410 --> 00:56:35,720 totally reasonable price point that would work. 1126 00:56:35,730 --> 00:56:39,340 And so for us like we think about this technology stack as a 1127 00:56:39,350 --> 00:56:42,700 roll up stack and the proving technology is kind of whatever 1128 00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:45,360 the best thing that's available. And so that's going to start 1129 00:56:45,370 --> 00:56:47,480 with optimistic prover, but we're going to transition it as 1130 00:56:47,490 --> 00:56:49,490 soon as that technology matures to the point where we're 1131 00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:52,510 comfortable. I wanted to ask one more thing 1132 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:53,830 which you just said there, which was? 1133 00:56:54,730 --> 00:56:59,730 Optimism might balance Coinbase 3 months ago or four months ago. 1134 00:56:59,950 --> 00:57:02,100 There was never going to be a token for BASE. 1135 00:57:02,190 --> 00:57:05,230 It seemed as though recently there were some saying we 1136 00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:09,610 haven't ruled it out. And most of these other tokens, 1137 00:57:09,620 --> 00:57:12,170 optimism and they're all dials and all like trying to go down 1138 00:57:12,180 --> 00:57:15,010 this centralised route. If you guys were to do a token 1139 00:57:15,020 --> 00:57:16,950 like, how would it maybe be different or how would you even 1140 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,450 look at something like that? Yeah. 1141 00:57:19,460 --> 00:57:23,580 And I think that's a big if I you're referring to the comments 1142 00:57:23,590 --> 00:57:26,280 that kind of Paul. Archibald, I have, Paul said on 1143 00:57:26,290 --> 00:57:29,840 Zedd. All it up. 1144 00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:32,440 He brought it up. Ohh, Max is here. 1145 00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:35,070 I have his notifications on. We would always tweets we quote 1146 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,690 him at least two times a week. So we're we, we we like the men 1147 00:57:39,330 --> 00:57:42,700 we love Paul, you know, I think that that was him just being 1148 00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:46,180 like classically lawyerly, like lawyers never want to confirm or 1149 00:57:46,190 --> 00:57:49,660 deny or you know say anything. They just want to be totally 1150 00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:51,260 neutral. You know there there are no 1151 00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:54,690 plans for based Habit Token. We've been really consistent 1152 00:57:54,700 --> 00:57:57,780 about that from the beginning and it's not not in the cards. 1153 00:57:57,890 --> 00:58:00,950 And so no, no new news on that. No changes. 1154 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,180 Alright, shut it down. Man, you've disappointed so many 1155 00:58:05,190 --> 00:58:07,240 people now. Ohh my heart. 1156 00:58:07,250 --> 00:58:10,720 Just doing my my friend tech chats going crazy, my my keys 1157 00:58:10,730 --> 00:58:12,360 going to 0. But anyways, I know we're tight 1158 00:58:12,370 --> 00:58:14,820 on time with you, but I do wanna kick it to OV if you ask a 1159 00:58:14,830 --> 00:58:17,020 question for you or a couple of questions for you real quick 1160 00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:18,610 Jesse. And then obviously we'll let you 1161 00:58:18,620 --> 00:58:20,660 because I'm sure you're very, very, very busy. 1162 00:58:22,100 --> 00:58:25,510 Have one final question. Yeah, which is a question I like 1163 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,290 to ask all, I guess. What type of music do you like 1164 00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:34,520 listening to when you work? Ohh man, that's a good question. 1165 00:58:35,110 --> 00:58:39,100 I, you know, I like, really need melody in the music I listened 1166 00:58:39,110 --> 00:58:42,240 to. So it's a lot of like, you know, 1167 00:58:42,250 --> 00:58:48,120 R&B, like you know R&B pop some electronic music in there, but 1168 00:58:48,130 --> 00:58:53,400 like you know, strong melodic vocals, some beat bass. 1169 00:58:53,410 --> 00:58:55,840 You know what have I been listening to recently? 1170 00:58:57,650 --> 00:59:00,880 Another thing that about me that that is an interesting fun fact 1171 00:59:00,890 --> 00:59:06,760 about Jesse is I am like cannot remember the names of artists or 1172 00:59:06,770 --> 00:59:09,940 songs or lyrics. My experience of music is 1173 00:59:09,950 --> 00:59:16,880 basically entirely like like a physical like sensory experience 1174 00:59:16,890 --> 00:59:19,440 where I just listen to music. I listen to it all the time when 1175 00:59:19,450 --> 00:59:21,770 I'm working. If I'm writing, it doesn't 1176 00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:24,920 distract me at all. I and I just don't remember any 1177 00:59:24,930 --> 00:59:27,740 of it. I just like experience it 1178 00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:29,990 background playing. So yeah. 1179 00:59:30,030 --> 00:59:34,000 But like, no, my recently listened to like SG Lewis. 1180 00:59:34,010 --> 00:59:38,660 I love, like incredible artists, like very like, you know, 5B 1181 00:59:38,670 --> 00:59:43,380 electronic vocals. What else is in there? 1182 00:59:43,390 --> 00:59:45,770 Dominic Fike. The Dominic, one song that's 1183 00:59:45,780 --> 00:59:49,350 been on repeat for me is this song called Mona Lisa by Dominic 1184 00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,610 Fike, which was in the new Spiderman movie. 1185 00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,530 And it is is like such a banger. I think I probably listened to 1186 00:59:54,540 --> 00:59:56,390 it like 300 times in the last month. 1187 00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:02,410 Yeah, so that's that's me. That's extensive answer. 1188 01:00:02,610 --> 01:00:04,920 I like that. I love music. 1189 01:00:04,930 --> 01:00:07,980 Music is like my favourite thing in the world, but it's always, I 1190 01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:10,140 always feel a little guilty because I say that and then 1191 01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:12,100 people like what's your favourite song recently? 1192 01:00:12,110 --> 01:00:19,590 I'm like it depends on. The if, if you play, tell you it 1193 01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,760 depends on the vibe, right? It's always like that, Alright. 1194 01:00:21,770 --> 01:00:24,900 Well, aside from from from destroying, shattering our 1195 01:00:24,910 --> 01:00:28,110 dreams and then talking to us about your entire music stack, I 1196 01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,260 think this was not staying with you. 1197 01:00:30,330 --> 01:00:31,780 But Jesse, that was that was great. 1198 01:00:31,790 --> 01:00:33,820 I know you're tight on time, so I don't wanna, I don't wanna 1199 01:00:34,070 --> 01:00:37,310 hold you much longer, but really grateful that you accepted to do 1200 01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,240 an interview with us. Thanks for having me on, you 1201 01:00:39,250 --> 01:00:42,260 guys came on from the chat. Are you gonna be at the people 1202 01:00:42,270 --> 01:00:44,820 punk thing in Charleston? Or where can we catch you again 1203 01:00:44,830 --> 01:00:47,500 like a live event? I'm I'm not going to be at the 1204 01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:49,820 people punk thing. Although there will be some 1205 01:00:49,830 --> 01:00:52,610 other people from kind of the. Case and and and Coinbase Orbit 1206 01:00:52,620 --> 01:00:56,830 there I will. I've been like totally on the 1207 01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,960 road doing a bunch of events recently and so for the next 1208 01:00:58,970 --> 01:01:04,130 little while I'm not going to be doing, but I think likely TBD 1209 01:01:04,140 --> 01:01:09,370 but likely to be at Dev Connect and likely to be at Art Basel in 1210 01:01:09,380 --> 01:01:12,210 some form. And those are probably the two 1211 01:01:12,220 --> 01:01:14,550 touch points in in the next, you know, a few months. 1212 01:01:15,690 --> 01:01:17,960 Alright, perfect. Well, that's cool. 1213 01:01:17,970 --> 01:01:19,080 Thanks for having me on. Y'all. 1214 01:01:19,090 --> 01:01:20,900 This is awesome. Such a huge fan. 1215 01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:22,960 Honoured to be here. I appreciate that. 1216 01:01:23,050 --> 01:01:25,800 Thanks. Have a great day. 1217 01:01:26,130 --> 01:01:30,050 Ciao bye Ohh there boys. That was a good interview. 1218 01:01:30,060 --> 01:01:32,420 That was fun. You know, I I love the music 1219 01:01:32,430 --> 01:01:33,920 taste, Ovie. I think that was the longest 1220 01:01:33,930 --> 01:01:37,260 answer we got with regards to someone's music like 1221 01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:38,930 discography. Should I say man? 1222 01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:43,180 Though I have to say man kind of kind of killed my my hopes and 1223 01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:46,360 dreams And here, here and there. You know I did get a three, 1224 01:01:46,370 --> 01:01:49,240 three live on stage. I didn't even plan that, but 1225 01:01:49,530 --> 01:01:53,980 that's down. That's well, who knows? 1226 01:01:54,550 --> 01:01:56,580 Who knows? Who knows? 1227 01:01:58,030 --> 01:02:01,480 We're such DJ and it's like, yeah, he's just saying it to say 1228 01:02:01,490 --> 01:02:04,000 like this guy who invented base, right? 1229 01:02:04,070 --> 01:02:06,140 Just came on the show and told it's not going to be a token, 1230 01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:07,870 right. And like, every news outlet is 1231 01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,790 probably gonna pick up on that tomorrow and we're here. 1232 01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,150 You know what though? He's probably trolling. 1233 01:02:14,650 --> 01:02:16,910 Yeah. That's what we'll say, you know, 1234 01:02:17,020 --> 01:02:19,640 That's what the Discord group would say, you know. 1235 01:02:19,650 --> 01:02:21,150 Oh yeah. He didn't really mean it. 1236 01:02:21,580 --> 01:02:25,970 We need to study his like his facial interaction while he was 1237 01:02:25,980 --> 01:02:29,050 saying that because I think he was like just playing with us 1238 01:02:29,060 --> 01:02:30,800 right. Like he I think I think it was 1239 01:02:30,810 --> 01:02:32,230 fine anyway. So that was fun. 1240 01:02:32,540 --> 01:02:35,530 I I really appreciate him coming on because he's hard to get get 1241 01:02:35,540 --> 01:02:37,430 a get around of. I think it's fired. 1242 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,950 I got this whole thing I saw basis for posted that the show. 1243 01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,720 So hopefully a lot of people can catch the last three minutes of 1244 01:02:42,730 --> 01:02:43,770 the show. That was great boys. 1245 01:02:44,110 --> 01:02:46,510 A lot of fun. A lot of fun and with that I 1246 01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:48,940 guess that's wrapped up. Another great episode of Jim Web 1247 01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:53,220 Three powered by Kraken and FTX are cracking.com/rug radio 1248 01:02:53,230 --> 01:02:57,270 RUGRADIO. To check it out, not so much 1249 01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:58,520 thought about the interview and let us know. 1250 01:02:58,530 --> 01:03:00,520 Also if you're in the audience like who you'd like to hear 1251 01:03:00,530 --> 01:03:02,120 next. You know, we we like to get some 1252 01:03:02,130 --> 01:03:04,070 fire guests on. I like to think that we managed 1253 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,980 to pull quite some heavyweights and so definitely want to keep 1254 01:03:06,990 --> 01:03:10,170 this 30 minute, you know, interview cooking like that for 1255 01:03:10,180 --> 01:03:11,580 a minute. So that was great. 1256 01:03:11,650 --> 01:03:15,520 And with that, with that, with that, I will see you all 1257 01:03:15,590 --> 01:03:19,320 tomorrow morning, 10:30, we have Eastern Standard Time, 7:30 PM 1258 01:03:19,410 --> 01:03:22,100 Pacific Standard Time for another episode of Jim Web 3 on 1259 01:03:22,110 --> 01:03:24,420 rock radio. Let's go.