Good morning. Good morning, GNEN, everyone,
and welcome to another episode of Homo.
Our day is Wednesday, April 2nd, 2045, and it is a stormy morning
here in Chicago. There's absolutely pouring rain
outside. It's cloudy, it's gloomy,
perhaps a sign of the storm that is coming with Liberation Day
and Trump set to announce those tariff details live at 4:00 PM
Eastern today. And the question on everyone's
mind, is it Liberation Day or Liquidation Day?
We are going to break it all down on today's show.
No, for Roque Mando is going to be with us here in a few
minutes. But I've got Logan on.
He is a writer over on the Kurtz.
We've been working together for quite some time.
Logan, Jim, how you doing? Hey, good morning Tyler.
I'm doing really well. Not in my normal setup so the
camera angle is is tough for me to a little unflattering.
Maybe need to lay off some of the food here I've been
consuming in Peru. But things are going well.
The the weather is perfect. Tough to complain too much.
Excited for Liberation Day and whatever it brings.
I'm curious how the Peruvians are are feeling about Liberation
Day. Are are you getting into
conversations with the locals? You know, actually, Trump has
come up more than once in conversation with our host
family here in Peru. I won't get into the details of
such. I don't need to get anyone in
trouble. But it has come up surprisingly.
Positive or negative? Negative.
Yeah, that's. Not great.
Well, we will see. Perhaps we'll get into that.
That is one of the impacts of some of these tariffs that are
going to be put in place. Mando's on with us.
Mando GN How you doing? I'm doing great.
How are you? Good, ready to be liberated and
at least get through whatever that means.
And we're going to find out in t -, 6 hours and then we'll see
how the world impacts. So folks, what are we talking
about on today's show? We are going to talk about Trump
tariff latest, our predictions for what's going to happen today
and then of course, the impact to the crypto market.
We're going to talk Circle IPO. It is official Coinbase drinking
circles milkshake as we took a look at the financials.
Ted Cruz wants to use flare gas for Bitcoin mining in Texas.
That was a headline out of left field.
GameStop ready to buy $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin that
closed their stock sale yesterday.
Kaido's got a new earned page for yappers.
We'll go around the horn with some memes and NFTS.
The WIFT team is giving the spear puns back.
We've got a new NFT runner on Bear Chain and a lot more.
Plus back half of the show, our conversation with Rohan from
Miston Labs to talk about the mega successful walrus launch
and what's coming next from them.
So we're excited for that. Before we dive in, quick shout
out to our partners starting with Galaxis.
Galaxis is a Web 3 platform empowering creators and brands
to build unstoppable communities with full ownership and
independence. Trusted by icons like Donald
Trump, Steve Aoki, Mike Tyson and the NBA.
Shaping together the future of engagement and wallet connect.
Wallet Connect is the connectivity network shaping the
future of on chain UX. If you've connected to a Web 3
app, you've seen Wallet Connect. That blue logo, It's everywhere.
An icon trust in crypto as recognizable as Visa at the
checkout. If you want to learn more,
follow at Wallet Connect on X and Telegram to stay ahead of
what's next. We love our partners.
As always, Mando, if you're ready, let's get into it.
Who is the man? Macro daddy of the land.
Can you dig it? Yeah.
So this is Liberation Day, whatever the hell that means.
Stuff is not as bad I think as people maybe initially expected
here. I think we spoke about it
yesterday that I'm less. There's some focus on this for
me, but not, not maybe as much as some of the other stuff
that's going on in the stock market.
And it's a little bit of confusion, I think coming out of
even from like White House conversations that people don't
really even know what this is until the final moments.
It definitely doesn't feel like it's some sort of like obvious
plan that's been out there and vetted.
Even yesterday it was like, oh, it's going to be very, very
broad. And it's 20% on everything.
And then you have percent kind of walking back some of the
comments. It's just like a strange
scenario. I think they're kind of like
they're gearing it up and you'll probably get a very
comprehensive plan. But I also think it's being
decided literally today, which is quite Trump, you know, like
he's very, very much changed his mind on a lot of this policy
sort of stuff. But yeah, we are, we are getting
that Bitcoin holding up relatively well. 85 K still the
European stocks sold off today. U.S. stocks had had kind of
bounced slightly yesterday and they're a little bit weak today.
So mixed bag positioning is definitely more bearish than
it's been, which is normally a good sign means that you're not
just going to go down 1020% And I the timeline continues to
think, you know, be pretty bearish, I think, which I think
is just an interesting flip there.
I don't I don't know like I'm not that I think bitcoins going
to stay above 80 K in my opinion here, whatever the headline, I
don't see it going low. I can see yeah, maybe I can see
maybe some of the L ones continue to drift lower, but
like I don't see this causing some cataclysmic at least today
some cataclysmic on market sell off, sorry, or or or equity
market sell off. I don't it's just it's
everyone's position too bearish for that to happen in my
opinion. So I just don't think, I don't
think it's going to happen. The the statements can seem to
be that like people are now expecting more of a recession.
Goldman Sachs think you know go down 6% in Q2, but I we're just
not where we are were in my opinion rather like horrific
sell offs inflation headline out just in some bailed out TUSD
after stablepoint had 500 million hole in balance sheet.
That makes sense. He was only created it and I you
know, true inflation came out of 1.3% today.
That's really low. I just don't think it's the sort
of environment where things will just go absolutely horrifically.
I and I think everyone is positioned way more bearish than
they have been in the past. So I think crypto will
outperform tech stocks here. I think will follow gold way
more from here on in and I'm I'm more positive for sure.
It's good to hear. I'm trying to pull up the those
true inflation numbers. Yeah, I, I saw this yesterday.
So I feel like there's so many mixed signals on the timeline
there. There's folks who are just still
terrified of inflation going up. And I think those are some of
the calls that were saying that I saw a tweet this morning that
folks are expecting rate hikes in in 2025, which seems just
kind of absurd. And then like the true flation
data is pretty, I think it's pretty a pretty clear picture
right now that that it is going down.
So I don't know a lot of mixed signals out there.
I am hoping we get a little bit more clarity here later today.
I do want to talk about that the tariffs and some predictions
here. So you, you laid out some of the
predictions that we've had Goldman Sachs, you know, they've
increased their odds to recession.
I think that there's more bearish views than bullish views
for sure. I mean Bloomberg's only got a
couple. We've got Tom Lee who's calling
for AV shaped recovery. I think he's the only loud bull
out out there calling for that right now.
And then Besant a little bit more level headed trying to ease
the the worst case fears. I think what really jumped out
to me yesterday was last night or last night and then this
morning, just the details of this plan isn't finalized yet.
Like what like Trump, you set this day.
And then like originally it was going to be like, I think they
even delayed the press conference.
So Logan, I'm I'm curious, I saw you reacting to that.
Are you surprised that perhaps we don't have these plans
written down on paper yet? I'm not surprised at all,
unfortunately, as Mando mentioned, I mean, this feels as
Trump as it can possibly get. I think the unfortunate part for
many of us who had celebrate isn't the right word, but had
been, you know, positively feeling about him surrounding
himself with smarter, more efficient people, right?
Like you just hope that this thing wouldn't happen as often.
You know where you get to a day that has been earmarked for some
masterful plan and there seems like there's no plan.
So no, I'm not surprised that maybe disappointed is is a
better word, but strong. So we'll, we'll see what
happens. Yeah, I think that is fair.
I'm trying to find the the the best tweet from last night where
he he was kind of outlining what the options are, but I'm unable
to find, I guess Logan, maybe for our listeners.
So we, I think folks still know what Liberation Day is.
How would you describe Liberation Day?
As fellow American, how would I describe Liberation Day?
As a fellow American, oh, man. Well, I don't know if there is a
good way to describe it other than, you know, Trump has has
made it very clear that this is going to be part of like this
kind of make America wealthy again, Make America great again.
All those, you know, cliche acronyms and such that he's laid
outline. This is one of those key days
where he's going to reveal plans that put us on that path or have
already started to put us on the path to making America wealthy
again. So I think, yeah, we are
expecting some level of detail regarding what happens with the
tariffs moving forward. I saw some headlines, I don't
know the sources on them, but like things about like Canada
would be willing to walk back if the US walked back.
I was reading some of the articles over at Decrypt from
some of my colleagues about, about this.
Just preparing, like what what could markets expect on on
Liberation Day? And there's just everybody what
we're saying now, which is, you know, we don't really know.
That's what everybody else is saying.
Even the people who are closest to the ground and the macro and
analysts who are being paid, I'm not the guy who can speak to
that, but the people who are being paid to manage other
people's money is saying the exact same thing.
There's a great quote from a wealth fund manager in one of
the Decrypt articles that said, you know, it's really easy to
start a trade war. It's really difficult to end one
or to win one. I'm sorry, I think the to win
one, it's like impossible to win one.
I'm wondering if Liberation Day is like, you know, we're kind of
liberating ourselves from not the trade war indefinitely, but
you know, liberating ourselves from that that mindset of like,
oh, we're going to win it. He wouldn't, you know, Trump
would never admit defeat, I don't think.
But like, maybe this is a cooler heads prevail type thing, I
don't know. We'll see.
I mean, the best case outcome, right, is to win this trade war
without firing any bullets. So to have threatened these
large tariffs and then the mug effectively walked back and,
and, or perhaps so like for me, the definition of liberation day
is trying to rebalance a global trade situation where the US has
losing deals or unfair deals. And there's, there's a lot to
impact. But that, that, that is the, the
headline view that we have trade relationships with other
countries where they are charging us higher tariffs than
we than we are charging them. And to try to even that out.
So I think that is as simple as, as Trump is looking at it and
we, we've started to see some reaction.
So I think we've seen like Vietnam, Israel come out and say
they're going to potentially lower their tariffs.
So I think that is perhaps the the bull case here.
I guess Mando and I, I don't know you, you've spoken at
length, there's more driving markets right now than just
this. But I am curious kind of what do
you think's going to happen at 4:00 PM today and kind of what's
your best guess at market response?
I think there's focus on this, but like I said, I don't, I
don't think it's been necessarily the the number one
thing driving the US stock market.
U.S. stock market is just basically made-up of 38% of
these magnificent 7 stocks. So I, yeah, I'm just wary of
oversimplifying that this is going to be the thing I think, I
think that the stock market sell off is telling you with the move
and things like Tesla that it's, it's not going to be saved here
by tariffs. So I, I think it's, let's see
how the AI thing plays out of the next few months.
And, but, but, but the most bullish thing I see right now is
just how the pendulum has swung to bearishness to the consensus.
And, and that's not just in crypto, that's, that's like
across across the board. And that tells me like whatever
sell off, if we do get any sort of sell off, I think you meant
to buy it because this is not long as getting wrecked anymore.
In my opinion. This is this would be there.
There'll be a there'll people short this market.
I mean, people are the most short eat they've ever been.
They're the most short stocks they've been since 2020.
I think that no matter how bearish you think this is going
to be, if we sell off today and we go decent, you know, like
Bitcoin goes down at 80 K, just buy it.
Just buy it. I'm telling you, I don't think,
I don't think Bitcoin's going to break out of this range on this
headline. Yeah, I think that is fair.
I feel like my gut is we're probably, I think we're going to
bounce, but I feel like I'm with you that we're also just going
to stay in a range and we aren't out of the woods yet by any
means. Like it's hard for me to to I, I
want to be on Tom Lee's side. I want to pound the table and
say the V shaped recovery starts today.
It's hard to fully have conviction of that.
I think, I think we've spoken about this before, but I think
the expectations for crypto Twitter participants and crypto
participants in general are just, they work both ways.
You know, like previously, we we've expected too much.
Now we may be expecting too little.
And despite the volatility that's going to come in either
direction, it's like Mando said, I mean, it feels like we're
just, we're too bearish for it to be so bad.
I don't know that May. That's of course, just an
opinion. And, you know, that's what I'm
clinging on to as like a a shred of opium.
But I I full well in, in a little bit of my bare arc as
well right now. So I'm not expecting much in
either direction. But clinging on to that is a
shred of opium, yeah. I mean, I feel like Bitcoin
looks strong. It's it's been outperforming
stocks. So it it it led the down move.
So I'm feeling good about Bitcoin Alts feel a little
weaker. I have to say I get waking up
and seeing Bitcoin over 85 and then he's still below 1900,
Seoul still below 130 doesn't feel great.
So those aren't out of the woods by by any means, but I want to
keep us going through our list here.
We got to talk about the circle IPL.
So we we talked that could be coming and then bam, we got the
news yesterday. They filed the S1 with the SEC
and as a part of that we got a better picture of their
financials and and Mando. I know on the show yesterday we
were kind of doing some on like off the cut back, back of the
napkin math on whether or not circle would be a good buy at 5
billion or not. I'm curious if you if you had to
take a chance to take a look at some other numbers and if if
that's changed your point. Of view I did, I had a look at
their numbers, their revenue figures is good, but their net
profit figure is is shockingly low compared to.
That. You know how how is their
revenue like? What is being lost here?
Like that was my question. Like how?
How it seems like they give like a billion dollars to, to, I
mean, part of this goes to Coinbase each year and then huge
cost. So Jeremy is paying himself a
lot of money. That's, that's, that's what I
kind of got got from this because 2025, you know, arguably
that figure could go up. Like we said yesterday, that
figure could again double that, that revenue figure, but their
net income's gone down from 2023 to 2024, which surprised me.
So I if I was sitting there, I'd be like cut the costs.
Yeah. Like that business is maybe not
being run as well as I think it could be.
That was my reaction as well and like seeing that the net income
drops year over year with the massive growth was just like
hard to believe. Like my jaw basically.
I hit the floor when I saw this and started getting into it.
I do think the bull case I guess is continued growth and they do
have cost levers they could probably pull back on.
It seems like there's the headlines going around that
Coinbase effectively is making more money on USDC than Circle
is. As I understand it, Circle is in
conversations with other sexes. So they could perhaps get better
deals there. Of course they can reduce some
of their other operating costs, but man, when I, I am not a, my
expertise is not in valuing companies.
I fed that, that the numbers, the financials through Chet GBT,
they said good comps are in the two to $3 billion range.
So that, that made me a little wary of it coming out of 5
billion and being a smash buy. And then we're thinking perhaps
it could even open up higher than that.
I guess it was trading as high as 5 1/2 in private secondary
markets in the past few months. So Logan, Chris, if you have a
thought like are you thinking about buying this, selling this,
waiting for a dip? What's your?
Take yeah, I'd like to, I'd like
to wait this out a little bit. I know the IPO mania the last
few days in particular has been kind of exciting, but core
weave, you know, just IPO last week started down and then
bounced back up. So it's it this would be like a
wait and see what happens thing for me.
We don't actually know what price right yet.
We don't know when either. So macro conditions could be
completely different. I think core we filed as one of
the most recent examples filed and then, you know, didn't start
trading until basically a month later, you know, so maybe we get
like an end of April thing type here.
I don't know what's customary there, but it, it could be
drastically different. I'm in a wait and see approach,
but this was really interesting to read through.
I, I was reading one of the articles on decrypt about
Coinbase, you know, taking this 50%.
Basically it said like the more that's held, the more USDC held
on Coinbase means, you know, the more Coinbase is going to make
the versus the complete opposite, right.
So circle basically needs to find a way to get USDC elsewhere
as well. So you mentioned Tyler potential
other sexes. If you Scroll down here,
there's, there's mentions regarding other banks as well
and other platforms in other countries, MercadoLibre in Latin
America, things like that. So there are, there are
definitely still paths here and I think everybody recognizes.
And is optimistic about stable coin growth and how, you know,
impactful that could be. So I don't want to like write
off circle here, you know, for the, for, for the future or
anything like that. But it this would be more of a a
wait and see what's going on in the rest of markets before just
slapping a yes on the IPO price. Yeah, I'm with you.
Yesterday I was pretty bulled up and was already starting to make
plans of trying to earmark some capital to have ready for the
IPO day. Now I'm in a little bit more
wait and see mode. I do feel like I don't think
stocks trade on narratives like our our beautiful Internet
tokens do that the the stable coin narrative is a strong one
right now. So I do think there is something
to that. Could it perhaps trade above
fundamentals? I think maybe there is some some
hope in there, but we will certainly see that was the the
big story yesterday. It was a little bit more quiet
just being April Fool's day. No one wants to drop any serious
news for the for the most part, the timeline.
What was just an absolute abortion yesterday, but I'm
happy we're we're past that. It's April 2nd.
This looked like it could be an April Fool's Day joke here or at
least a strange headline. So Ted Cruz bringing this flare
act to use flared gas for Bitcoin mining.
So Bitcoin mining continues to be a hotter button topic here in
the USI don't think a whole lot to unpack there.
Probably the juicier story though was GameStop.
So they they completed their stock offering yesterday, $1.5
billion now ready to go, ready to buy some some Bitcoin.
That's on top of the $6 million in cash.
They 6 billion in cash they already have.
So they are they're flush over a GameStop.
Mando's high level thoughts, good or bad, should be rooting
for this. Any takeaways from GameStop
potentially being one of the top owners of Bitcoin here?
Really what I said before, like GameStop is not AII think it's
BI had a look at it after the show.
It's it's a double B credit. You would, you would call that
and it may, may drop down to like being B actually after
this, but which means, you know, it's that would be some of the
companies that I used to trade like they're, they could always
go bankrupt. Like they got an OK chance of
going bankrupt in the next 1020 years.
And then that's that's the risk with these sort of things.
It's obviously they're buying Bitcoin today.
There's just buyers of Bitcoin like every single day.
I do man in minutes. It's just all right, These guys
bought more. These guys bought more.
It's it's very institutional now is Bitcoin being bought by
institutions is is probably that unstable coins and RW as are the
three big strong narratives. Still the L1 narrative like the
use of the L ones that's been drifting quite a lot lower.
You know, everyone's putting in month, month, multi month lows
in terms of fees generated and a lot of questions about like do
we have too much block space versus demand, all this sort of
stuff. But but Bitcoin doesn't care.
This buys a Bitcoin every day. I continue to think it's it's
the thing to own here, although it's very boring.
It's just, it's the thing to own.
It's plodding along and it it feels like there's just going to
continue to be a bid. Like it feels like there's a
pretty safe floor and nothing is like totally safe, of course,
but it feels like the safest floor of all of these by far.
And I'm with you like I think 33 institutions on my list, like
big ones who bought Bitcoin in the last day.
And that's even throwing away like the the tiny market cap
companies that are trying to generate the splashy headlines
like the one Kobe responded to this morning.
So that continues to happen. Logan thoughts there before we
move on. Yeah, I, I mean, I, I've said it
before, but like those are the types of headlines that I think
we're going to eventually look back at and be like, oh shit, it
was right in front of us. You know, like all the
institutions, all the big players were buying.
The one thing that, you know, I'm just not smart enough to
think through all the 2nd and 3rd order effects is, you know,
is anybody off put at all that these companies, many of them
continue to follow the Sailor playbook?
Like is that is that off putting or or not?
You know, of course that's a, a big topic of debate.
I'm not the guy to to go through it all, but that's just
something that lingers in the back of my mind.
Is all of these companies stacking up and selling debt to
buy Bitcoin? Like is that ultimately good?
I don't, I don't know. Good for Bitcoin.
Yes, hopefully. But like, does that introduce
risks that we're not, you know, not keenly aware of at this
point? I yeah, it's, it is second
order. I think it's the sort of thing
that maybe in three years or two years people go like, oh wait,
like GameStop could get liquidated here or this person
get liquidated here. Do you know what I mean?
Everyone loves it when they're buying.
But then if if we go through a sustained period of lower prices
that it just puts more risk in the system and I.
Mean, I, I think it is off putting to a, a, a group AA
cohort who who view it as like this last ditch effort, right?
Like, oh, here's especially with GameStop, right, like here's a,
a meme company now jumping into crypto to, to help, you know,
save their stock price or, or whatever.
And, and I feel like there, there's some butt angles there
and was chatting with Jeebs this morning.
It still feels like there's a huge cohort who feel like Sailor
is going to be liquidated and it's, and it's a matter of when
and not if. And that we've talked about that
and that that feels like a very unlikely scenario still, at
least since he's effectively stopped selling more, more debt
to keep buying. So, so like, that's the factor
to watch. But it is a different story for
folks like GameStop who who are buying for the first time in
86,000. So yeah, it's going to be a
storyline to to continue to watch.
Let's keep moving through some of the stories here ahead of our
guests coming on in just a few minutes.
Nice day of punk sales. Well, you're not sure if you had
a chance to take a look at these these these two pilots selling
85 and 126 E that is 3X2X and 3X the floor.
Same buyer. And then canvas came in with 100
ETH on this pink hair punk. All of these sales pretty well
above floor. Is that refreshed Tyler or is
that one really 6 minutes ago? That bottom ones are really
nice. This is not.
Refreshed OK OK, two hours ago. That was a nice one at 60 let's
check in on the punk Bitcoin spread here so 80 K, so we're
down about 6% versus Bitcoin here so we'll see I'm sure we'll
tighten that spread again soon Kaido keeps rolling out their
updates. So this is for the for you
yappers out there. They they launched this new
rewards station tab. So now you can very easily see
which protocols are effectively paying people to tweet about
their about their product. And I think this is, I think
this is the one of the bull cases for Kaido is they are
effectively democratizing the paid content sector of, of
crypto Twitter. Now you've got all these
protocols that there's out there for you and it is up to you.
Like you're tired of seeing that the big Kols in your timeline
being the ones that reap the rewards.
You can go do it yourself now. Have you sorry Tyler, have you
have you like tried to go through any of these topics?
For example, I looked at this and I just chose skate just as
one that I recognize. And actually I bought some like
skateboard thing like a while ago.
I don't even know what skate is, but I I just searched X Twitter
for skate topics. All the tweets are the exact
same. And you know, that's one of
those things that I had mentioned previously about a
little bit of my disdain for Kaido, right?
And, and Yaps and yap farming. I'm just slightly concerned
about this, but who knows. Yeah, I mean, you're going to
get different tiers of of content, right?
And the easiest thing for anyone to do is just to take Skate for
example. You go to Skate's website, you
copy and paste as much information as you can.
You throw it into ChatGPT and talk to write you 5 posts.
Right. And that's not a knock on on
anybody who's produced anything here.
Like I said, I I didn't go super deep into it.
I just did a scroll through and so much of it, what you don't
run into that might be hockey or sports related.
So much of it is is just like that regurgitated ChatGPT, you
know, the AI slop type content that is not adding value to
anyone's feet. I mean, the really big challenge
for Kaido I think is getting valuable content which would
benefit all consumers and creators and these protocols as
well. So it's not suggesting anything
that's been shared on screen is not valuable, but it's just
something that I'm thinking about is you've very clearly
outlined now, hey, these companies are going to pay you
to just say their name basically so.
It's an experiment, right? And we're going to see if it
works. And I think there's certainly
downsides. Yeah, I think we've gotten a lot
of low quality content. I think we've already seen folks
complaining about some of the folks who are consistently on
the leaderboards for for five or ten of these protocols who are
just kind of doing AI slop on a daily basis.
But that's on, I think Kaido's going to have to figure that out
and figure out how to either like nerf them to a degree or
better reward quality content. But that's, that's their job.
Like they're building the algo, right?
So there should be ways to do that.
There should be leverage for them to pull.
Yeah. And it's also on us as consumers
to to engage appropriately as well and to curate our feeds
that I am guilty of just following too many people and
not curating my feed appropriately.
So I'm getting more of this slop than than I probably should be
getting, or that I wish to be getting anyway.
Very very fair. We all have to curate,
especially in the AI air curation is is very important.
WIF, we didn't have a chance to talk about this.
Sign of the times. The WIF sphere funds have been
returned. The the team behind this ended
up coming out and saying basically they couldn't get the
deal done. They were trying to get it done,
but it it looked like communication was becoming more
and more sparse. They didn't want to hold the
funds up any longer. It was hard to believe, but to
me it was like, Dang, this was a year ago.
So it's been a full year since the Wisphere campaign has has
started. But Logan, curious if you have
any reactions to the to this? Is it the end of an era?
It is. It is truly the end of an era in
my opinion. For those who are not well
versed in the situation, my colleague Ryan Gladwin has been
closest to the ground to anybody you see in this tweet.
Actually, they mentioned the Decrypt Media article spooked
our partner. That was back when we reported
that this fear had no, you know, no idea that this was going to
be coming or whatever. It feels like the end of a, a
sector of mean coins from Solana that WIF was clearly the leader
of. There's a period of time it'll
be forever immutably registered on the Solana blockchain that so
many of us participated in with Popcat etcetera.
It does feel like the end of an era.
I don't know how best to to say. I think that's that's really the
best way to characterize it. Wow, I actually hadn't checked
the price. The Age of Falcon is with us now
400 million we've we've hit 4 billion it.
Did. 4 billion. Twice, actually.
So it hit hit in 2024, well, spring 2024 and then again and.
Just a crazy move when you think, when you think about it,
4 billion. I don't know where that ends the
cycle like the ends of the next six months.
Is that just down only forever now, like the rest of salon and
moon coins? Like it's just terrific out
there at the moment. It's only really far coin and
and the daily runner for like. The days.
Last literally for a day and then it's over.
Yeah, there are a few. There are more daily runners now
than there were a few weeks ago, but their shelf life is
incredibly short. I fully agree with you there.
I, I on with this is a tough one.
I, I was a whip holder for a long time, but damn near a year
objectively. And I don't want to refer
anyone's backs to go down, but it's hard to see the, the the
bowl case. It feels like this one is kind
of played out. Block grain sold the the sphere
funds have been returned it it feels like it's it's over and on
to the next one. So pour one out for our our with
hat friends and and meme bags there far coins been strong it
it really has still over 500 million.
Let's see, kind of a mixed day on the meme board here.
Yeah, basically everything is is chopping.
So yesterday was really strong though I think for for some of
these I, I wrote a piece over for decrypt about the far coin
surge yesterday. I think it was up.
Yeah, you're welcome. I think it was up 20% or
something like that yesterday, right.
But it's up like more than 100% on on the month.
It's gaining some mind share as well.
Again, and just anecdotally speaking from my timeline as
well, things I'm starting to see more of those and maybe this has
been perpetrated by you guys on the show.
The fartcoin is a leading indicator thing I think.
That's really just an an US thing.
Yeah, OK. Well, anyway, it's.
People talking about it. It's it's permeated my timeline
a little bit. And as I was doing the reporting
yesterday, I was kind of searching for other takes about
that. And there are a couple tweets
from a while back that are non FOMO hour related about far coin
being a leading indicator. These are like February type
tweets, but yeah. We're we're spreading the, the,
the good word. You can leave it at that, but
we'll, we'll see. Is it going to tell us where
we're going to go? Maybe Parkland will tell us the
results of Liberation Day before we get the details.
So this is going to be 1 chart that I'll have pulled up, folks.
The code is Walrus. The robot code is Walrus.
So we'll be doing those spins here in about 15 or 20 minutes.
And actually that is a pretty good sake.
I believe we've got Rohan from Miston Labs in the studio with
us, so if we're able to get him up there, he is.
Rohan, GM How you doing? GM I'm good.
How are you guys doing? Doing very well.
We are anxiously awaiting what what is a very big thing here
for, for stock markets for our crypto tokens as well.
But man, what what a week it has been for you.
I'll give folks a quick background.
If if our listeners aren't aware, you should be aware.
We've been talking about quite a bit on the show, but Walrus
recently launched on Suite. It's backed by Miston Labs.
Miston Labs is the team behind Suite Network Walrus Protocol,
set to revolutionize global data storage and utilization.
They're trying to bring more of the web three world on chain.
And they just announced a little over a week ago, $140 million in
funding for some of the top VCs in crypto.
And then last week, the Walrus token, it went live, nearly $3
billion FTV, one of the most successful token launches we've
had in quite some time. So it's been a big week for you,
Ronan. Have you had time to catch your
breath? How are you feeling here?
Matt, it it never stops, you know, being in missing labs and
being in such a high performance environment.
It's it's every day is day one. It's it's it's a big milestone
for us. Absolutely.
You know, Walter's launching on midnet with the TGE.
But now the groundwork has been laid.
Now it's time to scale from here, right.
So talk about catching breath. A bit, yes, but it's go, go, go
time. Yes, well, we are excited that
you took a few minutes away from your very busy schedule to, to
come talk to us. So I, I want our listeners to,
to learn more. But maybe can you just start
with a little bit of background preps on yourself and then also
a quick overview of of Walrus and and the vision here?
Absolutely. Yeah.
Would love to. Hey, everyone in the audience
here. I'm Rohan.
I am part of the deal and partnerships team here at Miston
Labs, the team behind the launch of Sui as well as Walrus.
Now I've been with Missing Labs for about a year and a half.
Been an exciting journey. It's been a night and day from
where we were last year to where we are today, all the way from
the community enthusiasm, the partnerships, the the kind of
technological innovation we are bringing to the market.
It's been nothing short of magic moment for the entire Web 3
space, if you will. Prior to this, I've been in
fintech space, I've been in crypto long enough via M&A,
management consulting. I led the team that launched 8
point back in 22, if anyone here kind of remembers that with the
Yuga Labs. So I've seen a few of these
massive hits into the market and spent enough time to know what
works, what doesn't work. But if I were to bet on any team
in the Vet 3 space at the moment, it'll be missing labs
and I'm glad to be part of on on being on the same side.
Yes, I mean and and the team has been doing quite, quite well
team success with Sui and now of course with with Walrus.
So that's a little bit of your background.
Can you tell us a little bit more about Walrus itself and
kind of the division? Absolutely.
Yeah. Look, so Walrus at a very basic
level, it's a decentralized data storage and data availability
layer that's built natively on Sui, right?
It's designed essentially to power your next generation of
high performance data intensive applications all the way from
your AI to gaming to real world assets and even modular block
chains, right? We haven't seen this kind of
foresight as well as innovation since the time of Filecoin and
RB and some of the other primitives that have existed.
So if you look at unlike some of the other legacy solutions like
Filecoin or even Celestia for that matter, which is a stand
alone DA walrus, what it really offers is your low latency,
highly composable smart contract integrated DA and data storage
layer, which offers in addition your on chain incentives to
prioritize all your valuable active data assets.
So if we were to lay down the vision for where we want to go
and what we want to be and what the path ahead lays is, we want
to make data. A first class citizen in web 3,
similar to how you have tokens, similar to how you have that's
includes both fungible and NFTS and smart contracts.
So the ultimate goal becomes if you could imagine a future where
you have AI agents that are fetching and verifying real time
data on chain, you want walrus to be embedded there.
If you have 0 knowledge machine learning models that are
referencing decentralized data sets for inference, we want
walrus and Sui to be powering that.
Think about modular blockchains and their histories and L twos
that publish stayed affordably and verifiably.
That's where walrus comes in. So if I were to sum that up in a
single line, think of it. Think of Walrus as that data
backbone of a decentralized and intelligent Internet.
And that's what we are bringing to life.
Got it. Well, I mean that that feels
increasingly important as we get into this new AI era and the
type of infrastructure I think a lot of folks are are starting to
pay more and more attention to. I am curious like who are your
primary users? Like how would you describe that
to our listeners who may not have still a comprehensive
understanding? I know I I believe Decrypt of
course one of our partners is a partner with Walrus, but curious
if you could outline a few other examples.
Yeah, absolutely. You pointed out Decrypt, so that
stands. So we have a very good
relationship with Ilan and and Faruk and the rest of the crew
here. They were the first adopters of
Walrus and they're being our study partner in that front.
We have another project partner called Tusky, which you can
think of it as as a Google Drive or Dropbox built on top of
Walrus. So now you can store your files
that guarantees that it's a, available B, it's decentralized
and you can create your public and private walls depending upon
the kind of usage you want to give to your end user, right?
And then we have projects on the L1 and L2 there.
So Plume Network is one of our other RWL 1 project that's
leveraging Walrus. So they will make Walrus as the
core offering to not only storing the data that they are
generating on their network, but also to their broader ecosystem
so that that becomes a default storage layer for their broader
ecosystem. So those kind of partnerships
and then we are obviously you heard about Plano source coming
out of it. We have some exciting non public
information which they're going to be utilizing Walrus for
storing a bunch of their IP and assets.
And there's a lot more that will come in that function.
Obviously on the AI front, which is such data intensive and data
generating vertical. So we have Atoma network, which
is your cloud compute side of the house.
And then you have Telus network, which works on the AI and Gentex
framework. So they're going to be making
waters as a core where they're not only storing the data, but
when it comes to retrieving that data to build smart contracts
and application, they will be powering that via series smart
contracting language. Got.
It well, I think that helps. That helps paint the picture
for, you know, what type of entities, businesses, teams,
products are, are, are using Lars.
So I think that does help at least me understand it a bit
more. Let's talk about Klainos.
So this was a fun launch announcement.
It took me by surprise. So, So what was kind of what was
behind behind this one? Why did you all choose to to
launch with Kleinosaurus and kind of what how are they
integrating with Lars? Yeah, as I pointed earlier, like
there's not much public information I'll be able to
share at this point, but they're one of definitely our marquee
partners. But this has been a long time
coming with a, you know, partnership team being deeply
embedded and working side by side with the cleaners or seen.
We think they're one of the best NFT projects from the previous
era that has actually transitioned into today's needs
and world and creative and entirely immersive experience,
which they want to leverage technology for.
And we thought Suey and Walrus would be a great match for that
and that and luckily for us Planar source were thinking
along the same wavelength. So we are planning on doing some
exciting stuff. As I said, we'll have more
public announcements come in, in the near future in the next few
weeks, I I should say. So keep an eye out on that.
So that's the alpha you you can expect from this call.
But yeah, we are very excited to have them as our partner and the
vision that they have completely aligns with how we think about
building the future, but from a technology lens.
Yeah, well, you'd love to hear it.
And it looks like right before the show we may have gotten one
more announcement here in my web AC.
Yeah, is on sharing risk analysis decision layer.
Yeah. So as, as I said, like the, you
know, the verticals keep popping up, right.
So this is one of the newer verticals on the cybersecurity
front now. So this this is risk and data
analysis. So now think about a world where
you can have all of those data labels like this wallet is
verified, can be trusted for whatever reasons could be for
ear drops or think about a future where enterprises are
starting to interact with, you know, self custody wallets.
They want to have some surety in terms of assurances that this is
a trusted wallet. We can onboard them onto our
system or provide them special benefits, etcetera.
Right. So now BBC comes into the
picture where they provide that risk analysis to their end
parties, making sure that the wallets and the addresses that
the enterprises, businesses or individuals are interacting with
are real and verified and can be trusted.
So these will come with tons and tons of data labels to ensure,
right, using machine learning and AI to ensure that the hits
are as close to and in real time as possible.
But as much certainty that yes, the other party that I'm in
tracking with is real BBC and due diligence here, DD comes
from that vertical and they'll be storing all of those data,
access data flags, data labels on Walrus, which will eventually
be retrieved not only by BBC, but their broader ecosystem.
They work with Meta Mask and a bunch of other water providers
and eventually with enterprises that will leverage this data set
and that create the data programmability layer around
Walrus, which we are so proud and trying to break to the
front. Yeah, another great use case
that highlights how exactly walrus can be used.
So that was timely. I'm happy we had that break
right before the show. So Rohan maybe taking a step
back at a higher level. Main Nets live, you've got the
token. What?
What now? What are you focused on?
What is the team focused on? Maybe second part, What are you
most excited about here for the rest of 2025?
There's a lot token in the kitchen here, the easiest way to
describe right? So as I said, so main net launch
in the TGE is day 0. Now the day one every day is
going to be day one for us, right.
So it's all about bringing in the right partners, you know,
identifying new use cases that will end up benefiting the most
from SUE and from Walrus. But As for as we move into 2025,
there are some exciting developments more broadly in the
SU ecosystem as a whole. So some of them we are already
starting to see from a number which are tangible in nature,
right. So you have D5 specifically on
SUE, it continues to RIP. There's major focus and we are
seeing the incredible growth now.
SUI is now also among the top six chains by DEX volume, right.
So that highlights the rising adoption within our broader
ecosystem. We are rapidly expanding the key
projects like we have SUI, Land, Cetus, you got Bluefin, which
are driving more innovation, right?
That's powered by Sui. It's low latency, fast consensus
mechanisms and that has never been done before in the Bet 3
space as a whole. And a major milestone ahead is
Phantom Wallet right coming out of beta.
We've been in beta with them for a while and we've been seeing
some tremendous data behind the scenes as well as most of the
use crypto wallet with 15,000,000 users.
I think this will be a real game changer for D5 user acquisition.
A lot of our social activity on chain, a lot of new applications
that will either be embedding Phantom directly or working in
tandem because of our relationship, that'll be huge.
So that Phantom partnership is a significant step for us, which
makes SUI actually the first non EVM chain outside of Solana that
has integrated with the wallet. I mean, yes, granted Phantom
started on Solana, so that makes it the starting point, but we
are very excited about that. And then again, you'll start
seeing so much more coming out on Walrus especially.
We'll have some big announcements during our Sui
base scam that's happening in Dubai.
May 1st and 2nd. We'll be, you know, revealing a
lot more partnerships, a lot more exciting use cases that I
think the community and the broader ecosystem would love to
see. There are a lot of reasons to be
excited. The Phantom 1 was huge.
So I I had an Ethos wallet from my early days interacting and
transacting on Sui, but I will admit personally, being able
able to access it via phantom was a huge unlock and and it's
much more capital over there. So I think that's going to be
continue to be a huge one for you all.
Well, clearly plenty of reasons to be excited.
You know, want to give you a chance here.
Last question, anything you want to leave our listeners with how
they can get involved? Any final thoughts for us here?
Yeah, As far as getting involved, if you're a builder, a
developer, reach out to us. We have 3 or 4 different avenues
now. We obviously have our Discord
channel where our community team is very active.
You can reach out to our Twitter handles directly, whether it be
on SUI or on Walrus or even Missing Labs.
We are available. Our partnership team, deal team
is available. I know our Co founders and
founders, they're very active on Twitter.
Are they any? I don't know if you've seen his
tweets. He's kind of our chief D Gen.
and evangelist for the entire ecosystem as a whole.
So he's always there. Sam, on the technology fronts,
he's been breathtaking to watch in terms of how he thinks.
So these are kind of three sources that's available.
Obviously, I am available especially on the deal and
partnerships team, but I would leave the audience here is like
we're starting to see a lot of institutional adoption.
I think that has changed over the last few months and we're
excited about the fact because the premise of Sui and Walrus
and the entire missing last team is how do we make it easier for
the masses to come on to BEP 3 as a whole.
And that's kind of been the starting point.
The North Star, it's still that. And with the changing admin and
regime, we're going to start seeing a lot more adoption come
to life. So a partnership with teams like
DeLorean laps, with MoviePass, with one championship, we're
starting to see that type turn with partnerships with large
financial institutions and Bitcoin BTC five, I was about to
call it Bitcoin 5 and our partnership with Lombard and
Babylon. I think those are the things
that are really exciting because now you can actively strategize
for your offense and your defense.
Doesn't matter whether it's your bear market or bull market.
Now you can really see the fuller picture of how the large
institutions and what they're looking for will be enticed to
come into Web 3 and what are the smaller builders who are
actually looking to build on enterprise grade technology that
powers the vision and the underlying business that they
want to build and bring to life. Well, I, I love that mission and
that vision to try to bring more of the world on chain into Web
3. So love giving a platform and a
chance to amplify the message of every team doing that.
So Rohan, it's been amazing. I want to congratulate you on
the success again of main net launch and the token launch here
in the past week. So hopefully everyone had a
chance to do a little bit of celebration and, you know,
recognize the event that's taking place.
But I know everyone's heads down and working on the these next
wave of announcements. So wish you guys the best.
We'll certainly be covering it on our end.
It was great to have a chance to catch up here this morning.
Thanks so much guys. Yeah, I appreciate the platform
and great chatting with you all. Awesome.
Well, we will talk to you soon, Rohan.
Thank you very much.